HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-12-04Meridian City Council December 4, 2018.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:03 p.m., Tuesday,
December 4, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer, Genesis
Milam, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Also present: C.Jay Coles, Bill Nary, Caleb Hood, Sonya Allen, Josh Beach, Clint
Dolsby, Shawn Harper, Joe Bongiorno, Crystal Campbell and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Sorry we are starting a few minutes late, but we
appreciate you joining us. For the record it is December 4th. It's three minutes after
6:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Michael Pearson of Seventh Day Adventist
Church
De Weerd: Item 4 is -- Item 3. Pastor Michael, I'm sorry, I almost skipped you. We
have our community invocation. If you will all join us in the community invocation or
take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection . Pastor Michael, thank you for
joining us.
Pearson: Thank you. And if I may, I would like to invite you, Madam Mayor and the
Council and everyone here to our tenth consecutive presentation of Journey to
Bethlehem this Friday through Sunday night.
De Weerd: Wow. And if you haven't been, the live Nativity is -- is just really amazing,
so --
Pearson: Thank you. So, forgive me for throwing that in.
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De Weerd: That's -- that's all right. I would have been disappointed if you hadn't.
Pearson: Thank you. Father in Heaven, we want to thank you for the reason for the
season and as we think of the hope that was brought to us in the first advent. We also
recognize that daily life goes on and what more important thing to be living at -- in the
City of Meridian, Idaho. And so we pray that your grace will shine down on us and on
these proceedings this evening, we ask in the name of our Savior Jesus Christ, Amen.
De Weerd: And thank you. And, Pastor Michael, I think it is important to note that this is
a collaboration between your church and a number of others.
Pearson: That's right.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: So, please join in. Okay. Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There are no changes to the agenda as published , so I would move that we
adopt the agenda.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. Is that all ayes? I think.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Okay. Item 5. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. There was one signup. However, their intended
discussion topic is Item 9-A later on on your agenda, so that's what they intend to speak
about. Other than that there were no other signups.
Item 6: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Approve Minutes of November 20, 2018 City Council Special
Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of November 20, 2018 City Council Regular
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Meeting
C. Approve Minutes of November 27, 2018 City Council Regular
Meeting
D. Sky Mesa Commons Sub No. 1 Water Main Easement
E. Sky Mesa Sub No. 1 Sewer Main Easement
F. Final Order for Gondola View Subdivision (H-2018-0116) by
West Ada School District, Located East of N. Black Cat Rd. on
the North Side of W. Gondola Dr.
G. Final Order for Jump Creek Subdivision (H-2018-0113) by
Trilogy Idaho, Located at the NW Corner of N. Black Cat Rd.
and W. McMillan Rd.
H. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Jocelyn Park
Subdivision (H-2018-0100) by Jarron Langston, Located Near
the SW Corner of W. Victory Rd. and S . Meridian Rd.
I. Addendum to Development Agreement for Costco Wholesale
Store H-2018-0066), located at the SW Corner of W. Chinden
Blvd./SH20/26 and N. Ten Mile Road.
J. Approval of Agreement to Mercer Health for “Benefits
Brokerage and Consulting Services” for the Not-to-Exceed
amount of 60,000.00.
K. Award of Change Order No. 7 to The Ewing Company, Inc. for
the WRRF Headworks Expansion” project for a Not-To -Exceed
amount of $150,250.37.
L. Approval of Change Order 8 for Discovery Park General
Construction to Knife River Corp. – Northwest for the Not-to
Exceed amount of $105,993.00.
M. AP Invoices for Payment 12/5/18 - $735,942.06
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign
and Clerk to attest.
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Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From The Consent Agenda [Action Item]
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Mayor's Youth Advisory Council Update
De Weerd: So, we will move to our Community Presentations. Under A is our Mayor's
Youth Advisory Council. And, Logan, I can't believe you still have shorts on. It is cold
outside.
Denen: You know, I love shorts. It's what I got to do.
De Weerd: You and Councilman Palmer have something in common.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I have worn pants two days in a row.
De Weerd: Oh, my gosh.
Palmer: This is a record.
Cavener: Let's make it three.
De Weerd: See, there is hope for you yet, Logan.
Denen: We will see. All right. Madam Mayor, City Council Members, thank you for
having us. I'm Logan.
Hutchins: I'm Ben, vice-chair of MYAC.
Denen: And I'm the chair of MYAC. And first we would like to start off with talking about
our Walk Audit. During October we took our general council members and executive
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council members through downtown Meridian. Our reason for this was for our
participatory budgeting. We plan on focusing on downtown Meridian and finding ways
to improve sidewalk, streets, whatever the general council members seem most
beneficial. So, we took this Walk Audit to show our MYACers downtown Meridian and to
show them what exactly we would be looking at for our participatory budgeting project.
It was a great success. Lots of MYACers were talking about it and found it very useful
and I think we have some really good options for our participatory budgeting projects .
And, then, also in October we had our trunk or treat, which was very, very successful.
We had about 10,000 people in attendance. Lots of trunks. Lots of MYACers
volunteering and being active, which was amazing. And as you can see all the amazing
costumes that people had. So, yeah, that was a very amazing experience as well.
Hutchins: Next in November was Rake Up Meridian. We had over 20 MYACers turn
out for this, which was a great turnout, especially compared to last year. So, we were
really excited to have all those MYACers show up. We got four houses raked and this
was done in two hours. So, we were moving very efficiently this time. One of our
members brought a leaf blower, which we found very helpful, despite the name Rake
Up Meridian I believe it was -- it was worth it. We had a fantastic time and we did a
really time effective event this -- this year. Next was legislation. Each year in MYAC we
come up with a legislation that we want to be focusing on for the rest of the year . We
decided to focus on this year changing the voting age from 18 to 17 in primary elections.
What this means is changing the voting age to -- if you are going to be 18 during the
actual election, then, you're allowed to vote when you're 17 during the primary election.
So, an interesting statistic that was brought up was over 10,000 additional voters would
have voted in this last election if this was passed already.
Denen: Coming up is our PB Expo. We want to invite you to it. It's -- we are having
five presenters talk about their participatory budgeting ideas. The presentations will be
on January 15th and January 14th and there will be five of those.
Hutchins: And, then, going back to our Rake Up Meridian, after that event we had our
bowling social. We had about ten MYACers come and join us. We rented out two lanes
at Meridian Lanes and had a really great time there.
Denen: Our upcoming events are the MYAC Christmas party on December 10th and
we are baking Christmas cookies for first responders on December 22nd. And, then,
also -- this isn't on our presentation, but we wanted to talk about our future event of the
National League of Cities. Our youth leadership conference that we go to in
Washington DC. We had talked to Councilman Bernt and Councilman Palmer about
funding for that and we had heard back from Councilman Bernt, but we hadn't heard
back from Councilman Palmer. So, we were wondering how you were feeling about
fundraising with us.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Bernt: I love it.
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De Weerd: Nothing like putting him on the spot, right?
Denen: On record.
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: You're kind of my hero right now, because this is exactly what I would have
done in high school.
Bernt: This is fantastic.
Palmer: And I can attest to that. Yeah, I'm in. And I bet there is some other people in
the room in the audience that might want to help us out , too, since we are in the mood
of calling people out, but I won't get specific, so -- yeah, let's chat.
Denen: All right.
De Weerd: And -- and that is what you both brought up during the budget hearings that
you would be happy to join them in identifying some potential sponsors and -- and
helping direct them their way.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: To be fair, I was most highly interested when I was -- when it was in a way to
be able to prevent using tax dollars for it, but once that went away and we were going to
use tax dollars anyway, my motivation was less there and now that we are just going to
be adding to what the tax dollars are already going to be, but I think it is a valuable
experience. The more of you that can be there the better and, hopefully, we can find
enough private money to make a lot of it happen, because I do feel it's inappropriate to
use the tax dollars for it. But we will see how many we can get you there anyway.
Denen: Thank you, Councilman Palmer. Any further questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just a comment. I appreciate the report. You guys have a lot going on. The
whole group is doing a wonderful job. For the January 14 PB Expo, one of the focuses
that started this type -- this program was to try and give a voice to a segment of the
population that might not otherwise have an ability to help fund items that are important
to their population group; right? So, the youth in this case. So, for those folks that are
going to be presenting whatever their proposals are, to ensure that there is the focus on
how this is youth specific, we are trying to address a need that is important to the youth,
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perhaps, you know, we might be missing it up here, but it's still an opportunity to -- to
help serve the young folks in our community. So, that needs to be part of the
presentations and purpose. I think that will be important for whatever the ultimate
project is for its success when it comes back before us later in the spring.
Denen: Thank you.
Borton: Helpful comments.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further? Thank you for joining us.
Denen: Thank you.
Hutchins: Thank you.
B. Community Development Block Grant Program (CDBG )
Consolidated Annual Performance and Evaluation Report for
Program Year 2017
De Weerd: Okay. 8-B is under our Community Development Department. We have a
new CDBG administrator and so I will turn this over to Caleb.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. It is my absolute pleasure
to introduce you to Crystal Campbell. We have actually changed the title. No longer
Community Development Block Grant Administrator, it's Community Development
Program Administrator. So, if you see that same role, just a little bit of a shift in the title
there. Crystal comes to us from the Department of Health and Welfare. So, I think
some of her experience and background there will be a great help as she administers
the CDBG grant. I feel for her, but I appreciate her, because she jumped right in, kind
of cleaned up some of the messes that I have made in the past couple months while we
have been administratorless, but been a great help so far in responding to the
monitoring that we had earlier this year and some comments from HUD and kind of
getting the program on track as we move forward with th e program and I think she's a
great add to the city and she's here tonight to talk to you about our CAPER. So, unless
you have any questions for me I just will turn it off -- turn it over to Crystal and hope you
take it easy on her tonight.
Campbell: Please. Thank you, Madam Mayor and Councilmen. So, I'm here today to
discuss the annual report. It's officially called the Consolidated Annual Performance
and Evaluation Report, but we refer to it as the CAPER. So, the purpose of the CAPER
is just to give an overview of what we have done over the past year. It's not a time for
us to ask for new projects or new funding or anything. We are just going over what we
have already done and updating you as to how it fits in with the Consolidated Pl an, the
five year goal that we have set, and the program year. It runs from October 1 st, 2017,
to September 30th, 2018. So, that's the time frame that we will be discussing. So, we
have several projects. There is a variety of them. Some of them are multi-year
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projects, some of them are one time and some of them are ongoing that get refunded
every year and some of the programs -- or projects that we have completed this year
are the Meridian Food Bank hunger relief program, the streetlight design and
construction, the Boys and Girls Club Scholarship Program and the Jesse Tree
homeless prevention program. We have a couple of projects that are still open. They
will be -- for the most part they are going to be closing out this year. There is some of
them that may go a little bit further, but the ongoing projects that we have right now are
the Meridian Elementary picnic shelter field reseed, the downtown sidewalk design and
construction, Ada County Housing Authority homebuyer assistance and the Neighbor
Works Boise Homebuyer Assistance programs, as well as some fair housing activities.
So, this is what the program is really about . This is the exciting piece. For the program
year 2017 we were able to work with the Meridian Food Bank to provide food stability
for 3,977 households, which is actually close to 11,000 individuals in Meridian and that's
just using CDBG funds. They also did a lot more than that using other funding sources.
We also were able to fund scholarships for 25 children to participate in Boys and Girls
Club programs that allow them to attend the before and after school programs , so that
they could get access to food, healthy snacks, tutoring, good mentors for children and it
allowed parents to have a safe place for their kids to go when they were trying to work
or do whatever they needed to do. We were also able to work with Jesse Tree of Idaho
to prevent homelessness for four families. They worked with case managers through
Jesse Tree and provided funding resources for them. We had five families that were
able to be first time homebuyers through either the ADA County Housing Authority
program or Neighbor Works Boise with their home ownership programs. They provided
housing counseling and down payment assistance for those who meet the eligibility
requirements. We also worked on fair housing campaign and events throughout the
Treasure Valley. We collaborated with Nampa, Caldwell, and Boise to put that on and
we will be doing some more in the spring. And we also installed 30 streetlights for
visibility, so that kids can walk to school when it -- in the dark where it's a little bit safer.
So, those are some of the big things that we have done this year. This chart represents
what we said that we would do as far as direct services go. So, as far as improving
accessibility we have a sidewalk project and it shows that we are at a zero percent
completion rate, but that's due to the multi-phases of projects like that. We have gone
through the design piece, but now we are working for the construction. So, we are
actually further along than it looks like on here. As far as enhancing homeownership
activities, we had originally said that we were going to assist 11 , but we have only been
able to help five so far, because of how expensive homes are in Meridian . People have
been having a hard time finding affordable housing for the group of low to moderate
income households that qualify for this. So , right now we are at 45 percent and we may
need to look in future years at changing our goal for that one. As far as providing social
services, we are doing great. We are at 194 percent, thanks mostly to the Food Bank.
They serve so many people there and stabilizing the rental gap through homeless
prevention, we had anticipated serving five households, but the funding only went for
four households. Just the bills are a little bit more expensive for that one. We also have
some outcomes related to collaborative initiatives. On this one improving accessibility
during program year '17, the CDBG staff participated in planning for public
transportation options for low income and special needs populations. So , we are on
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track for that one. Stabilizing the rental gap. We had planned to start developing an
affordable housing plan and marketing to developers for supportive rental developments
beginning in program year 2018. So, that's coming up and we are on track for that one.
We are also on track for creating a plan for accessible environment for persons with
disabilities and we have met our goals of supporting regional fair housing campaigns
and trainings and administering the program during program year '17. So, the previous
CDBG staff they -- he did a really great job of getting involved and making sure that he
participated in conversations around affordable housing with these entities. The Ada
County Continuum of Care, housing and homelessness roundtables, and the Idaho Fair
Housing Forum. So, we are going to keep up those collaborations and keep reaching
out to different entities, so that we can be part of that conversation. So, the goal for
program year 2017 was to remain timely and keep organizing the program , so that we
could just continue to do the good work that we have been doing, as well as to expand
the participation partnership and conversation with regional groups. So , that brings us
to today some important dates as the CAPER is now open for public comment, so we
are hoping that people will look at it and let us know what they think and what you would
like to see again. It's nothing new. It's just reporting on what we have already done. It
is available at the website that I have listed here or you can pick it up down the hall in
the Community Development Department. We may also have a few copies in the back
with my card on them, so you can reach out to me, you can call me or e-mail me or get
the information to me however you want and, then, I will be back on December 18th to
present the summary of public comments to -- to present that and any big changes that
we have made to the document, so that we can, hopefully, get you guys to adopt it at
that time. Does anybody have any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you, Crystal. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Crystal, a couple questions. Don't expect you to have to answer them
tonight. Welcome first to the city.
Campbell: Thank you.
Cavener: Thanks for being here. First question was in the report it talked about the
scholarships for the Boys and Girls Club and I noticed there was one scholarship that
was made to somebody who didn't fall within the LMI criteria. Is that common? Is our --
does that put us in any type of jeopardy that we are paying for an individual who doesn't
fall within the LMI category?
Campbell: I will have to look at that, because I thought they -- I had made some errors
on how they were calculating it. They were using old calculations and so when we went
back through I thought that they all qualified, but I will double check that and get back to
you on that one.
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Cavener: And that would be a great follow up when --
Campbell: Okay.
Cavener: -- before we come for the public hearing.
Campbell: Okay.
Cavener: The second piece -- and you touched on this, which I think is a really good
question, is how we look at affordable housing. You referenced, which I think is a
concern amongst everybody in the Council and many in our community is about the
high cost of home ownership in Meridian. So, when you talk about maybe making
changes, does that relate to increasing the amount of money that we make available for
downpayment assistance? Is it changing how we look at what affordable housing really
is in Meridian? Can you give me just a little more information on that , because it's an
issue that's really important to me.
Campbell: Right. I think as far as what I was talking about on that one , I would
probably suggest that we look at serving fewer households with the same amount of
money and putting a little bit more money towards it , but I haven't talked to my
supervisor yet, so we will see what he thinks.
Cavener: Thank you. Appreciate you being here.
De Weerd: Thank you. Always ask the new person these questions. We appreciate
you getting back to -- on the answers to these and -- and also having it prepared to the
public when we have that. Any further questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Not a question, but a comment. Well done. I know that this is your first
presentation to the Mayor and to Council and so it wasn't too bad, was it?
Campbell: It was great.
Bernt: You did a fantastic job.
Campbell: Thanks.
Bernt: Well done. Thank you. I can tell you were prepared. So, I thank you for that.
Campbell: Thank you. All right. Thank you all.
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Item 9: Action Items
De Weerd: Thank you, Crystal. Okay. There is no action needed, so we will just go
ahead and move into Action Items. For those that are here and are new to the process,
we do -- when we have a public hearing we open the public hearing with staff
comments, who will introduce the application and -- and answer any Council initial
questions. Then the applicant steps forward and also gives details regarding the land
use application and seeking certainly Council action. We, then, enter into the public
testimony section with each of those wishing to testify has three minutes and on the
computer screen at the podium there is a little timer, so you can see where you're at in
your time. The applicant, then, will get up and answer any questions that were raised
during public testimony, answer any Council questions and, then, Council does
deliberate and they will ask questions of staff, any of those that testified, or the applicant
for any final clarification and just an important note is there is a public record, it is
available on our website at meridiancity.org that you can find all the information that the
Council has had a chance prior to coming to the meeting tonight to review, so they can
use that information as part of their deliberations.
A. Conditions of Approval for Timber Creek Recycling (H-2018-
0042) by Michael Murgoitio, Located at 7695 S. Locust Grove
Rd.
De Weerd: So, with that we will enter into the Action Items. Item 9-A is conditions for
approval for H-2018-0042. Mr. Nary, are you prepared to --
Nary: Yes, Madam Mayor. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, at the prior hearing
on this Timber Creek, this matter was continued. The public hearing was closed. The
intent of the continuance was to make sure the language that we discussed as part of
the public hearing at the prior -- prior date was clear and understandable and met the
Council's intent. You have in front of you in your packet, which I'm having trouble pulling
up, the conditions of approval. We can walk briefly through them. The number one
condition was regarding the ten year time limit. So, the Council's direction at that time
was that there would be a ten year time period with a hard stop at ten years. The
applicant has the ability one year prior to that expiration, so at year nine to -- at the end
of year nine to ask the Council at that time whether they can continue the operation
beyond the ten years. The Council then -- the rest of that section is all the process that
occurs of hearing it and whether the Council grants that or not. If not it terminates at the
end of the ten year time period from this approval. The next modification is on the
recycling material and of the code enforcement means that can be used to enforce
these provisions, in addition to the provisions under the development agreement that
already exist of enforcement of those conditions within the development agreement.
So, there is two methods for the city to enforce the conditions that are laid out in this
document. The storing of recycling materials, again, all of it has to be stored within the
defined recycling area. That was what condition three was talking about. There is a
later section we will get to where they have to make sure its clarified on an exhibit what
the recycling area will be. The next provision, the change number four, basically, just
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simply identifies the other entities that have enforcement authority over this property .
Central District Health, Department of Environmental Quality, Ada County Air Quality
Board, Department of Water Resources and others and any violation of their condit ions
could be a violation of this agreement as well. The next one is regarding the screening
and berming that needs to take place. Once this is done and that that -- then they will
give the city notice when that is completed. That has to be done prior to them beginning
of the tier two process, other than there is some allowance for -- there is some pre-
testing that's required by DEQ and they are allowed to do that, but, otherwise, they need
to have the berming done prior to the beginning of that tier t wo process. The next
section deals with the materials on site in regards to both water sprinklers, water trucks
and such and, then, also has language regarding dustless material and, again,
surfacing their recycling area of the property to make sure to keep the dust down in that
area. The next provision is regarding the ponds of any -- of any type that are on the
property, that they have to be treated and maintained to make sure they are not
mosquito breeding grounds. All the mechanical equipment -- and this was the one that
was a lot of discussion by the Council. All the mechanical equipment, excluding all
private or commercial vehicles and operations, power driven processing equipment,
operation on the recycling property shall be located at least 300 fee t from abutting
residential districts. The shipping and delivery and storage areas of the recycling have
to be 300 feet away from residential districts within the City of Meridian. So, the Council
made clear that the -- the hard operations of the machinery and the grinding and that
kind of thing has to be at least 300 feet away from all residential districts , but the
storage area and some of the other activities regarding recycling have to be 300 feet
away from residential areas within the city. S o, we want to create that distinguishment
there. We did allow -- we did prohibit burning and incinerating of materials on site.
There is some limited allowance for a disposal through burying of that, because some of
the stuff is compostable types of mate rials. And, then, the last one is just a detailed site
plan, again, defining the areas where the recycling is, the whole property, where the
portions that are used for agricultural or nonrecycling activities. Basically a layout, a
map of what is on all of this property within -- and, then, the 36 specific acre area that is
allowed for this recycling activity. Those were all the conditions and , again, the intent of
this continuance was simply to make sure all the language was done, because we were
trying to create it at the hearing while we were there and that was the reason that that
public hearing was closed. You have in front of you both these conditions for approval,
as well as the findings of facts or 9-B and they are ready for your approval if you're
ready to do that.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I -- if I'm -- if I'm not mistaken, I believe Mr. Borton at the last meeting, when we
discussed this, asked about maybe coming up with an exact date , so there wouldn't be
any like question in regard to the sunset clause in ten years.
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Nary: So -- thank you. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bernt.
So, the -- I'm trying to read this. So, the ten year period is from the signed development
agreement. So, what happens from this is these conditions are, then, created to a
modified development agreement that, then, has to come back in front of this Council, is
signed and dated and recorded against the pro perty. So, all of -- in all of our develop
agreements where there is dates or time periods, that's the way we normally have done
it. We didn't pick a date specific in the agreement, we relate it back to the date on the
signed agreement.
Bernt: Okay.
Nary: So, that was -- that was our intent there.
Bernt: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: And that -- because you will have a clear start date, you will also, then, have
the clear potential end date --
Nary: Yes.
Borton: -- from the signatures and the -- the -- Madam Mayor? The additional uses that
are provided in this modified DA can't start until it's signed and recorded anyway.
Nary: Yes.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve H-2018-0042.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Okay. No discussion? Mr.
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, abstain; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it.
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MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN.
B. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Timber Creek
Recycling H-2018-0042) by Michael Murgoitio, Located at 7695
S. Locust Grove Rd.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-B is Findings of Fact pertaining to H-2018-0042. You have
those findings in front of you, Council.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Timber
Creek Recycling, H-2018-0042.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-B. If there is no
discussion, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, abstain; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN.
C. Public Hearing Continued from November 7, 2018 for
Summertown Subdivision (H-2017-0142) By 745 W Ustick, LLC,
Located at 745 W Ustick Road
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 15.13 Acres of Land with
a TNR Zoning District
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-C is a public hearing continued from November 7th on
H-2017-0142. I will ask for staff comments at this time.
Hood: Madam Mayor, before Josh gets into his presentation this evening on that
subject, I just as I was excited to introduce Crystal to you earlier, I have some sad news.
Josh is going to be leaving the city here next week. So, this is his last meeting. I do
want to just publicly thank him for his dedication to the city over the last three years he's
been with us. Done a great job and he will surely be missed. But wish him well. He's
moving back to Minnesota. So, wish him the best, but I thought I would just let you
know that he is leaving our organization, unfortunately, but -- so --
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De Weerd: Well, we are certainly sorry to hear that, Josh. We have appreciated you
joining us here -- mostly every single week and putting up with our questions , our
discussion, and -- and being tolerant of us. We thank you.
Beach: The feeling is mutual. I appreciate that. So, this is -- so, this project before you
here -- this project originally started in about October of 2017 and we have gotten where
we are here, the -- this is continued from the -- as you said, Mayor, the 7th of November
for -- to cover a certain number of things as outlined in the memo you have in your
hearing outline. So, I will go through that quickly and just as a way of explanation, this
is on the southeast corner of Venable Lane and West Ustick Road, which is just a little
bit southwest of Settlers Park. So, on the 7th of November of this year City Council
continued the application to tonight's -- to tonight's hearing for the following reasons:
They wanted to verify that the Ada County Highway District, that this property met their
standards -- that their project met the standards rather. That the -- that the applicant
provide a TIS or a traffic -- traffic impact study to city staff. At the hearing the applicant
indicated that we have received the TIS and as indicated by your -- by the memo in front
of you, we did receive it on the 26th of November. So, there was some confusion about
whether staff has in their -- in our possession a TIS. We have received that now and,
then, to address any conditions of approval from the staff report that are no longer
relevant or to provide additional comments. And , then, I also list several conditions
there that will be -- that would need to be changed. Staff has reviewed -- back up a little
bit. We didn't have enough time at the last hearing to review some of the revised plans
and we have now done that and we have reflected those conditions to what would need
to be changed in the conditions in order to make their current project function . So, staff
has reviewed the proposed site plan, landscape plan, and elevations and believes with
the above changes that the project is in compliance with the Comprehensive Plan and
in general compliant with the UDC. The applicant will be required to obtain a certificate
of zoning compliance and administrative design review prior to obtaining the building
permit for the project. If Council approves the subject annexation request, the staff
report will be updated with the revised exhibits and removal of the conditions noted
above. I will say that this project is a little bit unique in that typically multi-family projects
require conditional use permits, but when the TN-R zoning district is what they are
asking for, it does not, and so with that we don't right now have conditions or a staff
report from the Ada County Highway District, because there is not technically a
development to review, it's just an annexation. So, what we will do is when they come
forward with the certificate of zoning compliance we will forward that to Ada county.
They have indicated they have got some concerns about the location of their -- of their
drive aisles, especially out to Venable, but we will address that with the certificate of
zoning compliance. With that the staff is recommending approval and I will stand for
any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions at this time? Okay. Is the
applicant here? Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
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Robnett: Good evening. My name is Shannon Robnett. My address is 5103 Zamora in
Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Robnett: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I just wanted to address a couple of
things and one of the things that you asked for was some clarification on the traffic
study and I did bring the traffic engineer that did that study, so it would probably be best
if I just brought him up to tell us what he knows. I paid him a fair amount of money, so
we can -- if we could have you come up.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Thompson: My name is Dan Thompson with Thompson Engineers. Business address
at 181 East 50th Street in Garden City. We did complete this traffic study to the
satisfaction of ACHD. We did prepare the scope of work in coordination with them and
we have good findings since they just recently reconstructed Ustick to five lanes, we
had a lot of good findings that there was sufficient capacity to handle the development.
We did submit this to ACHD for their review. I don't know why there wasn't a comment
back from them, but they were given a copy of this traffic study. I guess -- did we get
any comment back from them?
Robnett: The only comments that we got back from them that it was acceptable, but a
couple of things that I did include where your charts, Dan, from your analysis of the
volume -- vehicle volume. You will have to forgive us, the original traffic study was done
at the time that we had proposed 272 units, so these counts will actually be 30 percent
lower than what they are stating. But if you look at this slide we have, it's -- it's -- of the
traffic that we will create, in addition to what's already there on Ustick and Venable and
if you want to just walk them through what that really means.
Thompson: Oh, this is really something only an engineer could get excited about and --
Robnett: That's the whole slide.
Thompson: That's the whole slide?
Robnett: Yeah.
Thompson: Okay.
Robnett: I have it in front of you in paper.
Thompson: Well, it is pretty simple. Basically what we found -- if I can just summarize
it. At that -- in the p.m. peak hour was our critical intersection and our critical time
period and what we found out is that the intersection of Venable and Ustick Road with
the improvements on the south by the development will operate at a level of service D,
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which is an acceptable level of service for Ada County Highway District and that was
actually on the -- that level of service D was actually on the southbound approach that
they suffered that, so --
Robnett: The other -- the other thing that this shows is that the flow rate off of Venable
with the 272 units would be approximately 95 cars an hour. The capacity for that, as
designated by ACHD, is 661. So, we are less than 14 percent capacity that's been
designed by ACHD. So, when you go back to the Comprehensive Plan and what the
city has put into place with that, it's the design of everything around it that makes this an
ideal site, because you have already done the improvements to the Ustick traffic lanes
that would, then, allow for the adequate flow of traffic through this area. So, we are not
adding congestion to an area that's not been improved , we are adding the congestion to
an area that puts it far below the service levels that are acceptable by ACHD. So, we --
that was the main finding on -- on that slide. The -- I didn't see in here where you had
gone through into the traffic that was actually at Ustick and Meridian Road.
Thompson: That was not requested to be in -- to be included in the study by ACHD, so
we did not include that.
Robnett: But, again, I --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Because I -- I was going to ask about that. I don't know if the clerk can pause
your time for a minute so I'm not using up your time asking a question. So, yeah, my
main concern and -- and listening to a lot of the neighbors, there were concerned with --
within their development, but I don't think Ustick is a concern. Ustick has been
approved. Meridian Road is the concern and I don't know if -- if Meridian is going to be
improved between Ustick and Fairview before this development will be comple te or if it
will be years to come, but I do know that on that road during rush hour traffic is backed
up from City Hall to Ustick going northbound. Anyway, that was -- so, you don't have
any of those numbers? Do we have a traffic study for Meridian Road and to know
where this would add to that?
Thompson: At the time of the study, which was about a year ago, it was included in
their five year plan. I don't know what year they have it penciled in for, but it was
widening of Linder Road -- or Meridian Road, excuse me, was included in the five year
plan.
Milam: So, maybe we could find out what the level of service on Meridian Road is
currently.
De Weerd: You can't talk while you hand out -- because we need you on the record.
And -- and if someone will make sure that the clerk has that for the public record.
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Robnett: If you look at the Meridian Road and Indian Rock intersection, there is a 16
point something second delay currently. After the build out of our project in 2020 it will
increase that by 1.3 seconds is all the more traffic we will add . If you go further in the
traffic study that has been given to staff, you will find that actually more traffic comes out
of the subdivision behind us onto our project and onto the road of Venable that we will
improve than we send back through just by the sheer headcount and the ease of traffic
if you're going certain directions you will naturally navigate through. So , by having 196
people added to -- or 196 dwellings added in the apartment complex versus the 400 and
change houses behind, if you're trying to go northbound on Meridian Road you will find
it easier to come out onto Ustick and grab the turn lane and go that way than you will to
come out on Indian Rocks and wait that 16 seconds. So, the traffic study does evaluate
that and they actually use our roads more than we would use theirs and that's found in
the traffic study, so -- but we did not -- we weren't required by ACHD to do it -- to make
any notes of Ustick and Meridian, but the proposed opening of our project won't be until
mid to end of 2020, so we will take approximately 18 months to construct. We probably
won't begin construction until March. So, we would be -- after the construction would be
-- is proposed to be complete on Meridian Road between Cherry and -- and Ustick. So,
I don't know if you saw that they have distributed the orange barrels, so traffic season is
coming, so -- and, then, the other question that the Mayor asked us to address was the
schooling and -- if you don't have any other questions for Dan --
De Weerd: Council, any further questions? Thank you, Dan.
Robnett: So, in order to answer the next question the Mayor asked was what about the
schools. What happened to that. To answer that I think it's best to go back to the State
of the City address given in February of 2010, just 186 months ago, and I quote the
Mayor when I say ten years ago within our city limits our school district had five
elementary schools. Today we have 12. We had one Middle School. Today we have
four. In '99 we had one high school. We have since added three more. Where there
was little choice in education, then, today our public schools have added professional,
technical, and magnet programs. We now have four charter schools, four alternative,
three private high schools that didn't exist ten years ago. Education choices have
increased dramatically. Opportunity in Meridian specific to higher education have gone
from no choice and the need to travel to one public university and two private
universities. In 2012 the Barbara Morgan school that's the closest to the site was under
enrolled and was, then, given to a magnet school. That's why there is no school close
to this that is accessible to these children unless they go through the lottery program,
but Barbara Morgan, which has been renamed Chief Joseph, has assured us that they
do have room for students should they choose to apply for the lottery.
De Weerd: Barbara Morgan is the former Linder Elementary.
Robnett: Sorry.
De Weerd: That's all right.
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Robnett: Yeah.
De Weerd: It's all the same.
Robnett: You understand where I'm going with that. So, in 2012, due to under
enrollment, the school was changed from a public school to a charter school and there
is still that availability to the residents in the neighborhood for that. We also received an
e-mail from the superintendent of schools that we forwarded on to -- did you get that?
De Weerd: It's in the packet.
Robnett: That stated that the current public school of choice is currently enrolled at a
level around 450 and that maximum capacity on that was considered to be 650 and the
construction of this new school across the street by the park would not begin until that
reaches 725 students. That's their design and that's what would happen. You were to
just take the development that we propose and you put a child in every home -- every
door, you still don't have enough to push that school to capacity to force the funding and
the creation of the next school and so even with the other properties developing next to
us, which are not designated as a neighborhood with an option for a high density, you
still won't reach capacity on that school if there was a child in every home on a four
house per acre development. Those are just the numbers that I have run, but that is
where we are at and that's the answer that I have from the school district and from the
traffic study. So, I will stand for questions.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you, Shannon. Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Robnett, what about the other -- like the Meridian Middle School and their --
their enrollment? Also Meridian High School.
Robnett: So, in the -- the public comments there weren't any questions about Sawtooth,
but I believe Sawtooth is the element -- or the middle school of choice. It's not -- it's
Heritage.
Bernt: Meridian Middle.
Robnett: Meridian Middle. We didn't receive anything back, but what the
superintendent did indicate was that there was availability in all schools that covered
this zone.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: I think maybe some of the confusion is coming from the -- the numbers it looks
like Eric sent you are different than the numbers that the school district letter says.
They are close, but they are not that close. The only one that -- the letter with the
school district letterhead -- only one that it shows is over capacity is Meridian Middle,
but it's under capacity, because the capacity is the difference in the e-mail versus the
letter. Math is hard.
Robnett: I'm sorry, I'm not privileged to your information. What we are showing from
him -- from Eric shows that there is capacity.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Milam.
Milam: So, are you saying that they told -- what they told you was that until Barbara
Morgan, which is a school of choice, a magnet school, is overcapacity, they are not
going to build another elementary school in that area?
Robnett: Until River Glen --
Milam: Until River Valley is --
Robnett: River Valley. Because that is the public school.
Milam: They are both public schools, they are just -- one you have to -- you have to win
the lottery, too.
Robnett: Right.
Milam: Because if that wasn't a magnet school and it wasn't a school of choice, I'm sure
it would be way over capacity right now.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Do we want to have this conversation
on the record?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: Councilman Milan was reminding me that it was a high capacity ESL school
and I shared with her that it was also -- either the first or the second for free reduced
school lunch.
De Weerd: Do you have anything further?
Cavener: No, I don't have anything further.
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De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Robnett: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This enters into our public testimony section. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Catherine Garcia signed up to address the Council
on this topic.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Garcia: Yes, ma'am. Catherine Garcia. 2970 Northwest 8th Avenue, Meridian, Idaho.
83646. My property will back up to all of this and , actually, the access road at the very
southern portion will pretty much terminate into my backyard . The traffic, the
overcrowding, the -- this doesn't take into account the apartments on the corner, the
housing development on the corner of Meridian and Ustick, the housing development
already approved on the corner of Linder and Ustick, the additional -- I think it's about
150 apartments being proposed on the corner of Linder and Ustick as well, all within a
one mile area. This does not take into account that , but against this development Mr.
Robnett has stated previously that he doesn't understand the opposition and he will
bring up, you know, how nice the housing lots are that he's developing. No one is
against the nine housing units that he's developing. Quite the contrary. If all of his
housing developments were as nice as he states that they are going to be, then, nobody
would be disagreeing with him. It's a disagreeance with the -- with the density that's
going in there and the overcrowding of the schools that's there, the safety issue for the
children. With all of the bus stops along Meridian and Ustick and Linder, I -- you guys
know better than I do the number of stops that there are and that's public and charter
and people that get bused everywhere -- kids that get bused all over the place. I'll see -
- and there is a daycare right on the corner of Blairmore and Ustick that also gets a bus
that stops in front of it and the parents will traffic there. The traffic -- the gentleman --
the traffic engineer stated that the -- basically there is going to be more traffic coming up
on to Venable than will be going down. Well, the natural habit is for people to find the
quickest route and if they are trying to get through Meridian when they do start
construction, they are not going to wait on Ustick, which backs up as well during going
to school times and coming home times. Mr. Palmer is very much in favor of
apartments and I get that and I think there is a time and a place for it and I think right
now you have so much on the books and you have already approved so many
apartments and housing developments and high density housing and I think that there is
-- that there should be more time given for Ada county to catch up. I understand you
want to strike while the iron is hot when somebody wants to develop and take
advantage of that, but at what risk? Meridian is known for being a wonderful place to
raise a family, but if there is too much traffic all the time and I'm worried -- and people
are worried about their children being out or being hit . There has been too many
instances in the news lately where kids are being hit getting on and off of buses. It's just
a lot of traffic coming and going and I think there should be a pause and -- thank you.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Do you mind answering a question. I'm sorry I forgot your name. The first --
Madam Mayor. The first time you were here you gave what I thought was a really really
compelling testimony about the concern of overcrowding in the schools and not having
to be bused to other schools.
Garcia: They are. My neighbor -- everybody goes to Chief Joseph, because there is no
room. My next door neighbor, which he's unable to be here tonight, he's on a business
meeting in Florida, they had their daughter on a lottery for four different elementary
schools.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, if I could maybe finish -- and maybe that brings a question.
That's okay. So, what I'm trying to rectify was -- it's a very compelling testimony. Your
testified, quite frankly, that changed my mind on this particular project. Rectify it with
the letter that we get from the school that says they are under. Now, I have -- my oldest
son is in a charter school and we lotteried in like nine different schools and we didn't get
into any.
Garcia: Right.
Cavener: So, there is a difference between lottering for a charter school and going to
the school that is within your neighborhood and what I'm seeing here is that the
elementary and the high school that would serve this neighborhood are under capacity.
That's counter to I guess the testimony that you provided. So, I'm just -- I'm trying to
rectify if -- if -- if in your testimony we are talking about being bused to other schools, if
that was referring to charter schools or if that was referring to the neighborhood school
that -- that serves this -- this area.
Garcia: To be honest with you, my boys go to the immersion school down in Kuna,
because it's important that they go and learn two languages for free. So , I know that I
have -- for me I don't -- I'm not aware even what the home school is. I know most
people drive three miles to go to take their children to Chief Joseph, which is super
awesome for drop off off of Eagle in the morning, but that's where they take -- that's
where several children on our street -- that's where they go is they go to Chief Joseph.
That is -- that I'm aware of that that's where they go to. So, it's also the incoming
housing that we can see it's -- it's the -- up to 300 units that are going in on Meridian
and McMillan, the apartments -- it's just the overabundance within a two to three mile
radius of apartments that you guys have already approved that are coming, that will be,
again, in effect. So, it's not just this one little thing, it's looking at the bigger picture
going, okay, you have already approved all of these other developments, now is that
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going to affect anything, so -- and it's on any social media platform everybody talks
about, you know, the overcrowding of the schools, getting their kids in a, you know,
overcrowd -- traffic. I mean I take my boys to cub scouts right up on Meridian and
McMillan at the church right there right across from Paramount and it's taken me 30
minutes to get from my house right up there at traffic time. That's not going to get better
anytime soon, so -- and we think everybody is understanding that traffic is a part of
growth and it's going to happen, but, again, you guys have already approved a lot of
apartments and you have already approved a lot of housing developments and it's going
to take a really long time for ACHD and the school -- the school boards to catch up with
all of that, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: John Carver also signed up to address Council.
De Weerd: Good Evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Carver: John Carver. 730 West Claire in Meridian. 83646.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Carver: And I want to apologize first, because last time I did this I said, oh, we gave all
our time to one guy and, then, another 20 people came up here. I apologize for that.
We have had some contact with Shannon -- Doug Taylor who spoke last time and he
has shown a willingness to work with us who live in the Vallin Court Subdivision to the
south of this proposed construction. They have made all the changes that we have
asked for so far in the architecture and other things, we -- that's great. We are all very
pleased with that. We still have one concern and that's the safety of the kids that live in
our neighborhood. When ACHD and the traffic engineer and others talk about where
traffic is going to go west, if you plan exactly where people are going to go and they
follow that rule, that's great, but there is going to be an entrance into our subdivision
from this -- this other area that's going to -- we -- we want and we have been told we
would get somehow from the -- the people that are building speed bumps coming in --
strategically placed speed bumps that would help protect the kids. Also some signs --
some signage -- some speed limit signs, children playing signs, things like that. We are
very pleased with all of that, but as Council Woman Milam said, you know, when you
get out on Meridian Road -- and I just tonight, anywhere between 3:00 o'clock in the
afternoon and 6:30 at night that's a disaster area on Meridian Road and so when people
are coming up Meridian Road and they have a chance to turn onto Indian Rocks or they
might have a chance to turn on Sedgwick, the next street up, they are going to take that
and they are going to come through our neighborhood to get back into this -- this new
subdivision. We know that's going to happen and there is -- there is just no way to hide
that. So, those speed bumps -- or if there is something else that can be done we would
like that done. We appreciate the fact that -- that Shannon has worked with us, but we
would really like to see -- like to see a little bit more and I don't pretend to understand
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how to do that, but there is the problem that we are talking about schools and all the
other things that are going on. There is just so much and there is -- there is a piece of
property on that map immediately to the east of this construction area that's vacant now
and it's not going to be very long before somebody is going come in here and they are
going to want to put in another subdivision there. We understand that . But when I
bought my property I was expecting to have that property immediately to the east to at
least be single family housing. I mean imagine this building five buildings long in your
backyard. I mean it's four stories here. The height of this, that's what you're going to
get to look at. It's just unfair.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: John, thank you for your testimony. You mentioned that you were wanting more
of what from Mr. Robnett?
Carver: That's the problem, I want more safety items. I want whatever -- I don't have
kids in there, but Doug Taylor has four. There are a whole bunch of kids on that one
street and it -- with the extension of Indian Rocks. It was going to go into the
subdivision. We have talked about two different -- on here -- on Ridgeway -- is that
Ridgeway Avenue?
Bernt: Madam Mayor? John, can you point to where you live on this map? Do you
know how to do that?
Carver: No, but I'm about to learn.
Bernt: Okay.
Carver: I'm guessing -- oh, here we go. I live right there.
Bernt: That's good enough.
Carver: I live right there. But the folks that are in these other houses that are right
behind me, they are going to -- their backyard is going to be -- they are going to look at
these buildings. Now, we don't expect mountain views. We know that's not going to
happen the way it was when I first moved in there 12 , 13 years ago. We could see the
mountains. The hills. We know that's gone. But if I have to look at buildings the size of
this building that are going to be three and four stories high -- and that -- that's changed.
They brought it down a bit. That's great. But we are still -- we are getting boxed in is
what we feel like. And I know we are going to have -- we have to have progress. We
understand that. We all want progress. But you guys, by virtue of our votes, get to
make these decisions on what's going to happen around us.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Hey, Josh, is there a way that we can -- I would like to -- John mentioned going
back -- John mentioned that -- that traffic would be coming off of Meridian through some
roads that would, you know, create an unsafe environment where he lives. Is there a
way that we can look on the public record and look at like a Google map to see what
that -- that pathway looks like?
Beach: Council Member Bernt, this is a -- John -- I believe his house is here based on
what his testimony says.
Carver: Yes.
Beach: It's Meridian Road. It's a straight shot down Sedgwick and you -- it's really easy
to get out to Meridian Road from --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
Beach: -- in my opinion.
Bernt: Or you could even take a turn on Indian Rocks and that's a straight shot all the
way to the subdivision.
Carver: And that's our fear is Indian Rocks and where that bend is at the bottom there
that's where we want one of the speed bumps, because along those homes there is
where a number of children live and during the summertime they are out there playing
all the time and, quite frankly, those folks don't have backyards. There is nowhere for
them to play. They have that little -- there is a little park there that they can go to play
in, but that's still going to be subject to that traffic coming down Indian Rocks and so a
speed bump just at the curve, plus another -- oh, I did it. I'm sorry. Another -- another
speed bump at the entrance coming in from -- from Venable, that area, that would be
nice. And my understanding is that Shannon has said that he would -- he wants to work
with us and he would do that at his expense, which that's great.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Neighborhood cut through traffic is the worst, but it happens everywhere --
Carver: Sure.
Milam: -- and no matter what goes in there you're going to have that. So , whether
these are single family homes, whether there was a business, no matter what goes in
there you're going to have cut-through traffic. It's just the way it is.
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Carver: Absolutely.
Milam: I used to live in Crossroads over when they first put Walmart in and I was talking
to my friend and he's like, well, I will just take the shortcut and I'm like what do you
mean the shortcut and he meant through my subdivision and it made me so mad. This
was almost 20 years ago. So, I totally understand. We get this a lot and I think that the
-- you know, the more traffic mitigation that you can get in there is -- is your best bet,
because nothing is going to take away cut through.
Carver: We expected it and we also expect people will be coming out of our subdivision
using their street to get back out to Ustick -- a little bit of traffic there. But I also know
that the -- the women in my subdivision, my wife included, have been discussing the
possibility of getting their hair dryers and standing out there and pretending like they are
working radar guns to scare the hell out of people when they are coming down the
street.
De Weerd: It is a great idea.
Carver: And the police department, you know, they -- they have got one of those speed
signs already on Indian Rocks, 25 -- 25 mile per hour speed limit and will that slow them
down? We hope so. But I know having been a police officer at one time I know the
value of a radar gun and somebody sitting on a motorcycle aiming down the street, that
will slow you down real quick. So, we can do that.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: So, John, you mentioned that you have received some assurances in regard to
traffic mitigation. I don't see how Mr. Robnett can make those assurances since it's
ACHD would be the one that would be making the --
Carver: If we could get -- if he can get ACHD to agree with it. That's my understanding
is that if ACHD will agree to it. If he's paying for it I don't see why ACHD would have
any problems putting up signs or speed bumps. I can't fathom how that would happen.
De Weerd: I think their process is you have to have a certain number of the residents
that live in that area that would agree to it. Not everyone likes speed bumps.
Carver: I can get that. I can guarantee you I can get you that.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
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Bernt: Mr. Robnett, have you received that information from ACHD?
De Weerd: Can we ask that at the -- at the follow up? Yes.
Carver: And I have not talked to Mr. Robnett about this. Doug Taylor informed me that
he had spoken with him. They exchanged e-mails and what have you and that that
would -- he wanted to be the good -- the good neighbor and this was what could we do
to help. That was what we decided he could do to help was the signs and the speed
bumps and I don't see a lot of expense in that personally.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Carver: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, it looks like Joe had a comment for us if that --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bongiorno: Thank you, Councilman. What -- I was just going to make the comment
that makes sure you come visit the fire department, because we don't do speed bumps.
We have had that discussion here. We do pillows.
De Weerd: But they have learned how to maneuver around them , so we are okay. Mr.
Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. There are no other signups.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any other testimony on this item?
Heron: My name is Tammara Heron. I live at 3464 West Fieno Drive in Eagle, Idaho.
I'm actually part owner of the complex that's right next to this on Venable. Eighty units.
I don't -- I just started managing it fairly recently. The entrance right there that you see
off of Venable goes into my parking lot and so I would like to actually close that off, so
that -- that can't be used as a thoroughfare. My biggest concern -- and I don't mind
the development, that's all great, because I'm interested in that, but getting out onto
Ustick Road we all go out along -- down a little bit further on Ustick and there have been
several traffic accidents going in and out, left and right, off of -- it comes in -- it's closer
in. It's right near my property right there. I don't know if -- right there. Yeah. There has
been several accidents going in left and right. So, if they could put a traffic light there
that would be awesome, because, then, at least you know you can get out going left
and right. But, like I said, I'm planning on closing off that because, it goes into my
parking lot, so that that won't be through traffic to the other exit . Coming out left on
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Venable is going to be an impossibility. Already going left and right onto Ustick -- I
mean going right is fine, but going left we have lots of problems, so -- but I love -- the
development is fine. I just would love to have a light there to avoid any kind of
accidents or at least help with accidents, so --
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any further testimony? Would the applicant, please,
come forward and address -- I -- I know Mrs. Milam had a specific question and any
responses to the testimony?
Robnett: A couple of things that John said. He did say that I would be willing to help
mitigate the traffic issues, which I did say. I did not give him assurance that I could do
things that ACHD would not allow, to answer your question, Mr. Bernt. Dan has told me
that 70 -- ACHD wants a 70 percent neighborhood approval if they pay for it. They are
more lenient on that number if they have the residen ts approve it. It just comes down to
whose house do you put it in front of and , then, you have the fire department that you're
going to deal with. But I did tell them that I would put up signs. I would do whatever I
could that was legal. We wanted to make that very clear. But the other thing that -- that
I wanted to address -- Ms. Garcia's concerns. As you saw in the -- in the study that I
showed you last month that I provided excerpts from, we are at the precipice where we
could substantially be underdeveloped, but also going back to your code, it states in the
housing in chapter three that the opportunities for housing should be available for all
income groups with a mix of housing, including modular, ranchettes, townhomes,
apartments, low income and mansions. A vibrant community needs a cross-section of
housing and, therefore, must guard against an abundance of subdivisions in like density
and price range. High density housing must be strategically located to public
transportation, community services. That is what we are doing here. That is why we
have chosen this particular location, because the improvements to the -- to the
roadways around it have already been done. It's across the street from the parks.
Those are some of the things that -- that we have looked at when we have selected this
site. Plus it's also identified in your comp plan that I get that you guys are getting ready
to update. It's about time, because your old comp plan says it's only good for ten to 15
years. But the reality is that your comp plan designates this as a high density area .
That's what its designated for. That's what the city has designed the roads around with
ACHD. That's what the -- the -- the rest of the -- everything that goes into that has been
done. So, that that is brought on to meet the comp plan and so, you know, I think that
with that I can -- I can stand for any further questions you guys might have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: So, the -- the staff report recites some of the history in the area of this being
mixed use community, which is more than just high density residential necessarily and it
talks about the property to the last previously approved and some of the -- the basis for
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approving that in the TN-R as multi-family was that the overall area, your property in
particular, might be able to fill the other components of mixed use community, perhaps
some of the commercial or office needs as part of what the comp plan contemplates ,
but this is now going towards the residential only component. Is there some validity to
the argument that the region as a whole is losing the true mixture that's intended by the
mixed use community if this is approved as presented ?
Robnett: Council Member Borton, what your -- if you look to the north side of the street
you see that the C-N is part of that mixed use. It has the gas station there. It has office.
Also if you look to the northwest corner that is designated and already pla tted as office
and has been for sale now for going on 12 years, plus or minus a few. But that is for
sale now currently as office and has yet to find a first user, let alone multiple users, and
so in staying with I guess northside versus southside, we have looked at that and said,
well, what's been proven in that area is the gas station is successful. In fact , they
expanded it into -- and remodeled that little shopping center there and moved that -- the
office space has done fine, but as far as bringing in new office space , that hasn't been
necessary and no one has offered to buy the pieces of land in the C -C piece on the
northwest and so when we initially looked at that we looked at doing some office in the
front of this. We just -- because this piece is small enough that it doesn't allow for a
complete mix of uses on it in itself, there is the C-C zone and, then, there is four other
property owners to the -- to the east of that. So, that's why we looked at the residential
component, looking at the whole area designated as mixed use and having the other
components of that across the street. So, if you look at -- Josh, I don't know if you have
that where it shows the picture of the comp plan that designates this whole area as a
mixed use area, but, equally, on the northside as the southside, since the southside --
or since the northside got a residential we felt it was our duty as, northsiders as we now
call ourselves, to pick up the -- the flag and carry that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any --
Borton: Just one more.
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: There was a comment by staff at the opening that -- that spoke to the traffic
impact study, which will be addressed at the CZC stage, when it goes to ACHD, they
formally review it at that stage, walk in -- maybe the question goes to Josh, but -- but I
will pose it to you. What's the mechanics of that where -- is there a point in the future
where if ACHD reviews this, has its conditions of approval perhaps and you take those,
whether you like it or not, because it doesn't come back before us necessarily, so --
Robnett: Council Member, I would prefer to have Josh give it a hack first.
Borton: And the reason I ask is we are not addressing those types of conditions here.
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Robnett: And I know that ACHD looked at it and they looked at the traffic study and said
that will suffice, because they required it. It wasn't -- and that was the little bit of trouble
we had last time at our last hearing was we brought that information to you in our
original packet. ACHD processed it -- processed it, said we have no issue with that,
but, then, didn't forward the packet to Council -- or to Planning and Zoning. So, Josh
had no record of it, but he saw that ACHD and said, yeah, we don't have any real issues
with it and that was kind of all they said. But their procedures I don't know.
Borton: Okay.
Beach: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as I said at the beginning of my
presentation, yeah, so it's a little bit strange. Typically multi-family is a conditional use
permit and we typically get a staff report right away from the highway district. There is
no actual -- I mean this is an annexation, they are not actually proposing development in
another -- proposing development. It's a little bit strange. And so the -- the normal way
isn't what we are going to have to do, we are going to have to follow up pretty closely
with the highway district right away to make sure that we get comments from them and
a staff report indicating whether or not they are in favor of the way they have got their
project laid out. Did that answer your question?
Borton: Not really. So, I will ask it a different way. There is not any comment from
ACHD in the packet which expresses acceptance, let alone any conditions of the March
1st traffic --
Beach: There is not. Just a comment from one of the planners indicating that they are
not generally in favor of where some of their entrances are located. But beyond that
that's all the information that I have. I did not receive anything from them indicating that
they were in favor of or against the traffic impact study that was received on the 26th of
November. But as the applicant said that -- their project has changed somewhat since
that traffic impact study was -- was given, but -- and the likelihood that the -- the vehicle
trips is reduced is high, because the number of units has gone down significantly.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton, I did see that Justin is here and it would be interesting to -- to
maybe pose this question to him. I think what Mr. Borton is -- is getting to is it's hard to
adopt findings without the -- the findings from ACHD, because we are the -- our findings
are really what enforces ACHD's findings. So, Justin, if you can join us we would
appreciate your enlightenment.
Lucas: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. For the record my name is
Justin Lucas. I represent the Ada County Highway District. Business address is 3775
Adams Street in Garden City, Idaho. Just a few comments hopefully to clarify some of
the questions I have heard. First I will go with the easy one. We are planning to widen
Meridian Road between Cherry Lane and Ustick in fiscal year 2020. So, that is -- that is
imminent. Not this fiscal year, but next fiscal year. This fiscal year, as you're aware, we
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are widening Linder Road between -- oh, I guess out there it's between Ustick and all
the way to Chinden. There is that one section that we are going to widen up by
Chinden. So, that's hopefully an answer to that question. When it comes to the
application, this is a little different. What's before you tonight is a request for annexation
and zoning and for these types of applications ACHD is unable to provide a series of
conditions like you normally see due to the fact that all we have received is a conceptual
plan. We are not actually -- ACHD is only responding to the -- the question of zoning
and you get these -- you get a letter from us basically saying it appears to be consistent
and we will let you know our conditions at the next level. Typically t hat's a conditional
use permit or some other development application. Now, your staff will have to jump in
and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe in a TN-R zoning district I believe multi-family
residential is a principally permitted use; is that correct?
Beach: Yes.
Lucas: So, in this instance when you're -- you're allowing for a zoning designation --
designation were multi-family is a principally permitted use, ACHD -- the only other
application we will review is a certificate of zoning compliance and, then, we will provide
our conditions to your staff at the -- at the certificate of zoning compliance phase and all
-- and the applicant is required to meet our conditions at that phase related to access
and all of the other requirements we h ave, including traffic impacts. If there is a -- some
type of trigger for signalization or something like that, which I'm not saying there is on
this application, all of that would be reviewed for the certificate of zoning compliance.
It's a little atypical, because you're used to seeing those things because we provide
them, but in this case because of the zoning designation that you have chosen or could
potentially choose for this site, it's -- it's atypical -- the process is a little different. But
that's because we are not able to provide those until we have a development application
submitted to us where we can actually provide those conditions and annexation and
zoning we are not able to do that. But that being said, it's not irregular for the city to
require at annexation and zoning that the applicant comply with all of ACHD's conditions
that will be applied in the future. That is relatively common.
De Weerd: And, then, they just proceed at their own risk that they will like your
conditions?
Lucas: That -- that is correct and our conditions, as you know, a separate -- a special
purpose government, it's possible that there would be a public hearing related to traffic
issues at ACHD that can be triggered by a certificate of zoning compliance. That's
certainly possible if staff receives enough pushback or -- or concern on the issue that
can happen where we can have our -- our commission act at a public hearing to do that.
I'm not saying that's going to happen here, but that is -- that is a possibility.
De Weerd: Any follow up? Mr. Borton. Is -- is this scheduled also for signalization at
some point? I assume that.
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Lucas: That's another -- a great question, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So,
I noticed there was a comment about signalizing. I'm not sure of the name of that
street, but I believe it's the entrance to the -- is it the Crossfield Subdivision? I can't
remember the name of that subdivision. Yeah . Well, no, Venable -- yeah. What I'm
getting at is Venable is the location where there will be some type of future control. I
believe our master street map shows a roundabout there as a potential for control. I'm
not sure exactly how that will play out. But either a roundabout or a signal would be the
control at some point in the future. Whether this application triggers that or not I don't
know. Our staff would go through the traffic study when they have a chance to review it
and do that analysis.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for Justin while he's here? Thank you, Justin.
Lucas: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Robnett, any -- any further comment?
Robnett: I do also want to make another comment that we are going to be required to
do a preliminary and final plat on this project, which would also allow ACHD a chance to
comment on that. So, there will actually be two times that ACHD would be commenting
on it. We would just do that simultaneously with the certificate of zoning compliance, so
-- thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, this is yours to discuss.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just another question of Josh. On the -- the proposed amendments to the
conditions of approval, there is a staff report of April 20. Is that the most recent one?
Beach: Correct.
Borton: Okay. There is nothing other than that?
Beach: That's -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, that
was the -- as I said, this project started back in October; right? And it came to Council
first in April. So, that's the most recent staff report.
Borton: Okay.
Beach: And remember this was continued from May until about November of this year.
De Weerd: So, Josh, there was no update once that you got a new layout , because that
would be part of a preliminary plat.
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Beach: So, are you asking me, Madam Mayor, that --
De Weerd: Any update to the staff comments.
Beach: No. No. We will update the findings this evening -- after this evening's hearing,
so they can be presented based on your -- based on your decision this evening and we
will update the exhibits and things in the staff report. As Council Member Borton
alluded to, it's from April and we did not include in that -- in the staff report the new -- the
new exhibits in anticipating that there might be some changes from -- from Council. Did
that answer your question, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Kind of along the same lines. I guess this -- because this is different than what
we -- we do a lot of times with the departments, since there is no -- we're just doing
zoning and there is no CUP or plat that -- nothing can change based on the plan or the
number of units that we are discussing today.
Beach: You can add the -- I believe in the development agreement you can tie them to
the concept plan and I think that's the goal is to make sure that they are tied to the
concept plan they are proposing this evening and so, no, we wouldn't -- we wouldn't
allow them to increase the number of units or anything and they were tied to the
amenities package and things that they are proposing. I will say the only thing that's
going to impact the applicant to come forward with a CZC is it will just take longer,
because we will have to wait for comments from -- from the highway district. So, it -- it's
not going to be here five to seven business day turnaround on a project like this ,
because we are going to need to make sure we get all the comments. We don't -- we
don't typically get in that much detail with a certificate of zoning compliance. We usually
get them, as I said previously, with the conditional use permit. But it -- it shouldn't be a -
- shouldn't be something that we -- we can't figure out.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: One other question, because this -- being that this entire southside of Ustick is
now residential, with the exception of this C2 property that's white, that -- what is that
and -- is that still county property and do we have any applications on that? The only
way to -- the only way to keep this mixed use community is to put something other than
houses right there.
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Beach: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Milam, this -- this whole corner is designated as
a neighborhood center and so we include the whole corner as part of that mixed use
and so staff's finding was that we have a mixture of uses if you include the whole area.
So, we have got the C-N on the northeast corner, the C-C on the northwest corner and
we have got the residential and there is several different types of residential as well.
There is single family and there is multi-family and I believe to the east here this -- this
C-2 is county; correct. That's their commercial. There is Blue Rider Music there and
this would be medium density residential. Or I should say shouldn't be. It is designated
that and the assumption is that will be single family homes, similar to what's developed
to the south and to the east of that.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: For clarification, Josh, is -- is it your understanding that the applicant is in
agreement with all of the conditions of approval, including the three changes that you
proposed, those removals as 1.1?
Beach: I believe so. Those -- those conditions, if I remember correctly, are specifically
related to the previous concept plan that was proposed and they are no longer
applicable.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Anything further from staff, the applicant, or the neighbors that are here this
evening?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If there is none, I will move we close the public hearing on H-2017-0142.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close public hearing. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: And I just -- I apologize to Mrs. Milam and Mr. Cavener, I thought the
conversation was still part of the public record. I -- so, I was rude. I apologize. Okay.
We have closed the public hearing. Any discussion before a motion is entertained?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I just -- I have a question. I don't know if it's been asked and I don't know if it's -
- I guess it's a staff question. If this were a single family residential subdivision, R-8,
how many homes, roughly, with the minimum open space, do you think could fit?
Beach: That's a great question. If you look at the same block of land immediately to the
south of this project you will get -- and I don't know exactly how many homes that is, but
looks like roughly the same size and same number of homes. I can -- we can guess.
Yeah. I mean a fair number of homes.
De Weerd: Would it comply with the TN-R zone?
Beach: I don't know that -- Madam Mayor, I don't know it would -- it could for sure. If
you look to the -- to the west of this project there are a lot smaller lots in the -- in the TN-
R zone. So, there is -- in theory they could do, you know, fairly small lots and still will
comply. The density would go down for sure, but there would still be a fair number and
as Caleb mentioned to me there, obviously, with TN-R there are some specific
requirements to develop within TN-R. Alley load. The way that the subdivisions are
designed, but that doesn't -- shouldn't impact significantly the number of homes you --
you could get in there.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for Josh. Josh, the testimony tonight talked a little bit about speed
pillows, if that's the appropriate term, conditioning that as part of approval -- maybe
that's a question for Mr. Nary, what that -- how we -- how we can do that. I guess I'm
not familiar with the mechanism that on an annexation that we can condition speed
pillows in another part of land that the -- the owner doesn't own -- or at least to attempt
to work with the neighbors to get something installed.
Beach: Council Member Cavener -- and I guess Mr. Nary can jump in, too. Typically we
-- I don't know how we -- basically ACHD says that they can't do that. It makes it difficult
for them to work with the project. If we are requiring them to do it and ACHD says no, it
kind of puts us at odds with what -- what they are doing. In the past when situations like
this arise we encourage them to -- as best we can to -- to work with the highway district
to come up with a resolution to -- to resolve some of the concerns that long straight
roadways pose to existing residents when a new development comes in , but I don't
know how we require that as part of -- part of our staff report.
De Weerd: I think in the past we have made it part of the findings upon approval of Ada
County Highway District, because it is -- it has been part of the public record where the
applicant said that if ACHD would approve it, that he would -- he would work with the
neighbors and install it. Mr. Nary.
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Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, a couple things. Yeah, I would agree
with what -- everything's that's been said. I think ACHD has specific policies on what
they will allow and how they will allow it. There is a percentage of the people that live
along that street that have to agree to it as well, because, again, not everybody,
essentially, wants these on their street. What I guess I'm not clear on is what I heard
Mr. Robnett said is he was willing to do whatever he could do on his property to assist. I
wasn't sure that he was offering to pay for that on the -- in the street. But -- but, again,
that's up to them. But as the Mayor stated, what we have done is simply direct that they
follow the ACHD's procedure, work with the neighbors to provide that and , then, work
through that and that can be certainly language in the development agreement .
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe then one more question for Mr. Nary, recognizing that the public
hearing is closed, but at least I saw the applicant nodding in agreement in willingness to
be able to do that. I don't want to reopen the public hearing, but I assume that we are
okay to at least -- if that's the direction Council wants to head, then, that would be in the
-- in the final condition and if for whatever reason the applicant was opposed, then, he
would have the opportunity upon final approval to come back before us?
Nary: Yes.
Cavener: Makes sense. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I mean even in the late '80s, '90s when these homes were built it was an
inevitability that the road was going to connect to Ustick. I don't believe that's ever been
in question and the fact that it's going to happen now, I would have a really hard time -- I
mean by all means head nodding and willingness to do it , but -- and encouragement
from us, but I would hate to put anything -- any kind of requirement, even if it were to be
approved, that it be provided on site or off site given that that road was going to
connect, especially off site. I mean again, willing to do it, awesome, assuming ACHD
goes for it and the neighbors go for it, but it was going to connect whether it was 2018
or 2008 or 1998. I will just say if it gets approved you got to do it I think is beyond what
we are -- I guess goes -- goes beyond the -- the power that we are really endowed with
up here at the -- I think.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: Mr. Palmer, I appreciate your perspective. I think that at the same time we
are trusted from the public to make sure that we don't create undue burden s to our
current citizens as a result of growth and I think that minimizing cut-through traffic --
Council Woman Milam hit the nail on the head. You can never eliminate cut-through
traffic. Go to any neighborhood anywhere in Meridian -- if it touches a major
thoroughfare there is cut-through traffic of some kind or another. When you look at
those long straight roads those invite cut-through traffic and I think we owe it to our
current citizens to protect them and their kids and speed pillows are the -- I think an
appropriate mechanism, along with potentially signage, to be able to do that. Signs are
great, but speed bumps or speed pillows are I think are more appropriate and so,
Madam Mayor, I am -- I was not very supportive of this application when it came before
us, I think in part because I had some real concerns , like many of us did, about the
impact -- again, that negative impact on our schools and hearing compelling testimony
that, you know, young people are being bused to schools far far away to be able to get
their education. Well, that was my case when I was a kid going to Joplin Elementary,
seven miles away from my home. We have grown as a community and -- and close
schools are a part of that. I think the applicant has done a good job of going back to the
drawing board and improving this project tremendously and to me it's just a finite detail
of addressing some of the traffic concerns in and around that neighborhood. So, to me I
think the speed pillows -- or at least got willing neighbors who are happy to help partner
with development -- and this is what's great about Meridian, neighbors being neighbors,
working together. If the neighborhood supports it it sounds like we have got a developer
who is willing to facilitate the cost and implementation . If the neighbors aren't or the
highway district is opposed, it's no longer an issue. The developer did everything he
could. But to me some type of speed control is -- is -- is necessary and warranted in
this particular project, in my opinion.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments or do I have a motion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, in the motion do we need to say anything about a development
agreement?
Bernt: It's a condition.
Palmer: So, that's covered. Okay. I might have missed that one. I move we approve
H-2017-0142 with present conditions presented by staff.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second and discussion?
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Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just because it was our previous topic of conversation, does the maker of the
motion and the second intend to incorporate -- I guess my soapbox statement about
speed control and parking pillows?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: It's kind of like a Bingo card.
Cavener: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I'm going to try to get it approved without it first, given that we do have
someone willing to do it, hopefully, you know, if it can be allowed. It does happen. I just
really don't want to set a precedent that if you're the last one to make the connection
you have -- it's your responsibility -- you're -- you're responsible to ensure that anyone
else using any roads attached to it does it at a proper speed. I think a willingness is
great, but it shouldn't be someone's responsibility to make sure that half a mile down the
road and around the corner someone is deterred from cutting through, because they put
a speed bump part way down the road.
De Weerd: I guess I would just add you -- you noted this is where the long length of the
road is is an older subdivision. We have -- we have learned things along the way. I
think our code has changed that you're not going to see that long road in newer
subdivisions and the reason is is because they do become a speedway and so I agree
with your -- your statement that that last person who makes the connection, but the --
the newer subdivisions do have an opportunity to mitigate for some of these older one s
that did create a racing track and -- and so that -- I can understand the concern.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I totally get that. I don't know the street lighting situation along Indian Rocks. I
imagined in the newest subdivision we are going to require more street lighting than
may have been required at the time that that was built . Now that there is going to be a
connection there may be more people that want to get over to Garbanzo's Pizza and
instead of going north walking all the way up Meridian Road, going down Ustick they
might realize they can get there quicker -- is it the responsibility of the new developer
that makes the connection to also ensure that there is adequate lighting for pedestrian
traffic at night. Shall we require them to put in additional streetlights to make sure that
that's taken care of as well? It's an older subdivision. It was approved then. We have
learned things for sure, but it's -- it's not the responsibility of the new guy to make up for
what Council has learned since.
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De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion on this motion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just briefly. I had expressed some comments before and -- about how I
support so many of the changes. I think the applicant did a good job in trying to address
the initial concerns at least that I had with regards to the density and the scaling of this I
think it meets in the middle with Councilman Cavener's comments with regards to the
property. You know, the reality remains that this is a mixed use community with
neighborhood center contemplated in this area both north and south of Ustick and this
really fits what was intended and what we all knew to a cert ain degree was going to be
here or at least within the four corners of Venable and Ustick. So, I think the new
design fits that much better. I think it addresses the concerns. I think it meets in the
middle. Councilman Cavener's comments with regards to the pillow idea I don't think
sets precedent in this context. I think it sounded like -- and I would be supportive of it,
because it's really trying to set a condition that facilitates the collective agreement of the
parties. The applicant is aware of the concern. The public's raised a concern. We
have got a means to utilize this process to address it. I think everyone's trying to solve
that the same way. So, in this context it makes sense to include it as a condition. I will
probably vote against the motion, just to make sure that condition gets included. It's an
opportunity that we all have to make this project a little more successful. So , I'm
supportive of the project, but would like to have what Council has discussed as an
opportunity be addressed as part of it.
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I think Councilman Borton iterated that very well. I am
not in -- generally in favor of designating what we do with the roads, but I think in this
case, because it is an older neighborhood, I have lived in an older neighborhood where
we don't have the opportunity for -- haven't had for speed pillows and I think that it
would greatly benefit the neighborhood in this case to do what we can to mitigate the
potential issues with safety as -- as we move forward.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I can do simple math. So, now that I have lost the vote on that, I would like to
amend my motion to include that provision and move on.
De Weerd: Okay. Does second agree?
Borton: Second agrees.
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De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: And, Madam Mayor, the three conditions of approval that are being removed
from the December 4th staff report are also part of the motion. Otherwise, the staff
report conditions, which include a development agreement requirement, are all part of it.
Palmer: Certainly.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion, clarification? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palm er, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Mr. Palmer's motion passes unanimously.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Public Hearing for Elevate Franklin Storage (H-2018-0109) by
Ten Mile Development, LLC, Located at the NW corner of W.
Franklin Rd. and N. Umbria Hill's Ave. at 3755 W. Perugia St.
1. Request: Rezone of 3.53 acres of land from the L -O to the R
-15 zoning district; and
2. Request: Development Agreement Modification to remove
the
subject property from the existing agreement (Instrument No.
106002636, Silver Oaks Subdivision)
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-D is a public hearing for H-2018-0109. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments.
Allen: The next application before you is a request for a rezone and a development
agreement modification. This site consists of 3.53 acres of land, zoned L-O, located at
3755 West Perugia Street. This property was annexed back in 2005 with the
requirement of a development agreement, which was later amended. The
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for this site is medium high
density residential, which calls for a mix of relatively dense residential housing types at
eight to 15 units per acre. The applicant is requesting a modification to the existing
development agreement to remove the subject property from the agreement and a
rezone of 3.53 acres of land from the L-O, limited office, to the R-15 zoning district for
the development of an accessory self service storage facility for use by the existing
multi-family residential development to the north. Silver Oaks. A standalone storage
facility for use by the general public is a prohibited use in the R-15 district. Therefore,
the applicant is only requesting an accessory storage. A conceptual development plan
was submitted as shown that depicts a variety of different sizes of storage units . No
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outdoor storage is proposed. Access is provided via West Perugia Street. A secondary
emergency access is proposed via North Umbria Hills Avenue along the east boundary.
Landscape street buffers are proposed in accord with UDC standards. The Kennedy
Lateral runs along the west boundary of the site. The Council previously approved a
waiver to allow the lateral to remain open and not be piped. Staff is recommending a
six foot tall wrought iron fence is proposed -- excuse me -- provided matching that to the
north in the multi-family development to preserve public safety. Conceptual building
elevations perspectives of the proposed storage structures are as shown . Building
materials consist of metal paneling, hardy paneling and stone veneer. The architectural
standards manual prohibits metal paneling as a finished material. However, it can be
used as an accent or a secondary field material. Elevations submitted with the
certificate of zoning compliance should be in compliance with the architectural
standards manual. The Commission did recommend approval of this application.
Becky McKay, Engineering Solutions, testified in favor, as did Hethe Quist and Jesse
Bennett. No one testified in opposition. Mike Green commented and no written
testimony was received. The -- the main issue that was discussed was they were in
favor of the storage facility in close proximity to the apartments. Key issues of
discussion by the Commission was whether or not the applicant should be required to
construct or contribute to the cost of construction of the crossing over the Kennedy
Lateral. Let's go back here to this map. The Kennedy Lateral, if you can look at the
aerial here, just runs along this west boundary and, then, Perugia Street comes here
and stubs actually as a cul-de-sac there. So, a bridge connection is needed here to the
west. The other issue of discussion by the Commission was the time frame in which
residents of the multi-family development can leave their items in the storage facility
after they move out. The Commission made the following changes to the staff
recommendation. They made a motion to strike condition number 2-E, which was
requiring a road trust to be submitted to ACHD for half the cost of construction of a
bridge over the Kennedy Lateral. Condition number 2-B included allowance for existing
renters to lease space for up to one year after they move out of the multi-family
development. Include a requirement for the developer to work with the adjacent
property owner to the west to come up with a cost share agreement for construction of a
bridge or a culvert over the Kennedy Lateral prior to the City Council hearing.
Modification of condition B.2 to allow the sewer and water easements to be submitted
and reviewed along with the development plan approval, rather than with the plat, since
there is not a plat. And, finally, modification to condition B-3 to exclude the Kennedy
Lateral from their requirement for irrigation facilities to be piped, since a waiver was
previously approved. Outstanding issue for Council was the cost share agreement with
the adjacent property owner to the west for construction of the crossing over the
Kennedy Lateral. The Commission directed the applicant to come up with an
agreement with the adjacent property owner prior to the Council hearing. The applicant
has communicated to me that they did discuss the possibility of a cost share agreement
with the adjacent property owner to the west and that owner is fine with not requiring the
applicant to participate in a cost share agreement for the crossing. That owner plans to
construct the crossing in its entirety at their own cost with development of their site.
Written testimony since the Commission hearing was received from James Doolin, Land
Development Partners. He is representing the property owner to the west and he did
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decline a cost share agreement for construction of the crossing over the Kennedy
Lateral. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff at this time? Okay.
McKay: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Becky McKay,
Engineering Solution -- Engineering Solutions. Sorry. Getting late. 1029 North
Rosario. Meridian business address. Sonya, do you have mine queued up?
Allen: I'm sorry, Becky, I didn't know you had one.
McKay: Oh.
Allen: Give me a minute here. You always have one. I should have --
McKay: I got here early.
Allen: All right. Is it that one?
McKay: Yeah.
Allen: Oh, you're driving. Okay. I can't drive while you're driving.
McKay: Okay. There we go. Oops.
Allen: Do you want me to put it on the PowerPoint view?
McKay: Thank you, Members of the Council. I'm representing Ten Mile Development,
LLC. We have been working with Grey Wolfe on this particular project for many years
now. It was -- it was initially a project that got caught up in the great recession. It was
partially constructed. The site was a mess. It was intended to be four-plexes and we
spent quite a few years trying to revamp the site, get new entitlements and we finally got
a project that was economically viable and we appreciate the Council's cooperation and
the staff's willingness to work with us over the past few years to make it happen and I
would like to say that we -- we just finished and got all the occupancies on our third and
final phase, so -- so, we have one thing that -- that was remaining out at the site and
that was this initial office lot. Where did my cursor go? There we go. So, when this
was platted as Umbria Subdivision and the multi-family R-15 area to the north and,
then, this triangular area was platted as L-O and it was one single office lot, all utilities
were provided to this lot. A lot was platted and has been vacant for 13 years. Mr. Wolfe
had multiple architects, multiple commercial real estate people evaluate the lot, look at
the lot. We kicked around different ideas, like daycare, office and -- and after many
years of attempting to find a use for it, they decided, you know, we have come to the
realization that we need storage for our 369 unit s and we are seeing a significant
number of residents -- approximately 65 percent of their residents are moving here from
out of state. They have personal possessions that, obviously, can't be stored within an
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apartment and they have 98 garages on site as part of the multi-family development and
they kind of did an inventory here just recently and determine d that 65 percent of those
garages are being used to store personal items and not vehicles. Obviously, it creates
parking issues and a shortage of parking. So, in meeting with the staff -- I had never
done it before as an accessory use, so we are kind of paving new ground here as you
would say. But we are asking to change the zoning to -- from L-O to R-15 and that this
would be an accessory use to our principal permitted use, which is the Silver Oaks or
Franklin at Ten Mile multi-family development. As you can see there is this triangular
property to the west. This is designated high density residential. There is an
application moving through the process toward you guys on -- it's a multi-family type
project that's been downsized from what was initially denied -- I think last year. To the
southeast we have high density multi-family designation here. Within the Barraya there
is an R-40 zone. The residents are indicating to the managers that all of the mini
storage. There is an existing mini storage facility right here along Ten Mile that
everything's full in Meridian and that you have to get on a waiting list and so they went
to Babcock Design and worked with them over the past probably about eight months to
come up with what was considered a -- a good design. These are five-by-five units and
10-by-20 units in size. One of the things that the staff talked about was, obviously,
retaining that character that is talked about within the Ten Mile area specific plan along
the Franklin Road corridor. They asked us, you know, if -- if you want to do storage we
would like you to have it, one, take access internally. Secondly, have a nice aesthetic
appeal along Franklin Road with significant landscaping, articulation of the buildings.
This kind of shows you the landscape plan here. So , we have a significant landscape
setback. As Sonya indicated, the Kennedy Lateral traverses our western boundary
here. We do have a waiver for that to be open. This is Umbria , which is a collector,
feeds the Ten Mile Christian Church and the Ten -- or -- and the -- the apartment
complex. Our access will be here internally off of Umbria. We will have an emergency
vehicle access out to -- I mean, I'm sorry, Perugia. We will have an emergency vehicle
access on Umbria only and no direct lot access to Franklin . This kind of shows you --
you can see the -- the apartments. This is just the edge of the site in question. Here
you can see that the site has, basically, been vacant for the past 13 years and kind of --
they used it for staging and stuff for the apartment complex. One of the things that the
architects did was give you this -- this nice perspective. It shows you the elevation and
they are kind of creating like these little -- these little monument towers here at the
corners. Everything is enclosed. We don't have any exterior outdoor parking, but you
can see how they -- they have created this articulation with the -- the building roof lines
and the exterior walls and mix of materials, textures, and colors. This right here is the
Franklin frontage, so you can see -- we have a nice curb appeal to Franklin Road, which
is a major five lane arterial roadway and, then, we also retain that -- that nice landscape
and aesthetic look along -- along the entrance road of -- I always forget its name.
Umbria. And, then, you can see how this is the entrance to the developer -- or the multi
or the mini storage right here, which is off of Perugia. Staff asked me when -- prior to
submitting this they said, you know, we want you to take a look at the Ten Mile area
specific plan and we want you to, obviously, provide the Council justification for what --
how this fits in -- into that area, because there really isn't a lot of discussion about mini
storage in the Ten Mile specific area plan and the plan talks about proposed, you know,
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storage adjacent and accessory uses that will co mpliment primary uses within that plan
and it said that it encourages mixes of uses, which are complimentary to the existing
uses in highlighting the diversity of building forms, neighborhood serving retail and
service uses and in reviewing that Ten Mile specific plan I think this accessory use
meets that test of integration and also providing multiple income producing uses as
outlined in the plan. One of the things that we also looked at were the conditions and I
think one of them the staff has indicated has kind of resolved itself and that was the
condition to share in the cost of -- let me get back here. Sharing the cost of the -- there
it goes. This is a stub street right here and initially there was a trust fund by the original
developer. Money was set aside at Ada County Highway District to pay for their
proportionate share of putting a culvert in here, so this public street could extend and
connect to the property to the west. ACHD under their policy manual says that if those
monies have not been utilized within ten years they have to give them back. So, they
gave the money back to the original developer that couldn't economically make this
project happen and Mr. Wolfe had to come in and step in and take it -- take the project
back at a significant cost to him. So, when the highway district reviewed this application
initially they said, well, the money is not there, so we will need you to put 14,000 dollars
back into the trust fund. But, then, they said, no, we don't think we are going to require
that, because we gave the money back and it's kind of taking a second shot at you and
so they said we are going to exclude that condition from our staff report and I did send
the staff their comments. So, the Commission said, well, you know, you guys share that
Kennedy Lateral, it goes to, you know, the center line there, so could you go to that
developer, talk to them, see if you can come up with an agreement. So , we contacted
Mr. Doolin and Mr. Doolin said I really don't have any interest in cost sharing. You
know, as far as we are concerned we have budgeted for that interconnectivity of that
public street and so, therefore, we don't have any requests or requirements of you and
so, basically, we have met our requirement as far as making that effort to work with that
adjoining developer. The condition that -- that we feel is problematic we have -- we
have met and consulted with our legal advice and -- is Item A-2-B and the written -- A-2-
B says the storage facility is allowed to operate in conjunction with and as an accessory
use to the multi-family development to the north, i.e., Silver Oaks and shall only provide
storage service for residents for the multi-family development providing -- providing
service -- storage service for nonresidents, i.e., the general public, is prohibited. And,
then, the Commission added: Existing renters can lease space for up to one year after
they move out of the multi-family development. Well, we are going to have other multi-
family developments kitty corner to us, so we started thinking about what are the
implications of this condition. What are the implications of this condition when we go to
get financing? This is a three million dollar project. It's a significant investment and how
do we tell the people across the street that say, oh, great, can we put our stuff in your
storage facility and if we are only 75 percent filled up, although we hope we fill up with
the 369 dwelling units that we have in Silver Oaks. What if we are at 75? And so I
know the intent of the accessory use and I looked at the -- the definition of accessory
use and it really didn't provide me a lot of guidance. It said this use is incidental and
subordinate to the principal use and is conducted upon the same property. So , this is
conducted within the Umbria development, which was Silver Oaks. It is incidental. It is
subordinate to my principal permitted us. But it doesn't say anything about that I have
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to turn someone away if they want -- if they are next door and they want to put
something in the storage unit and Mr. Wolfe wants to kind of talk to the Council about
that, because, you know, it's, obviously, his dollars that are being invested. He's the
one that's been meeting with his bankers and his attorneys and how do we -- how do we
reconcile that without creating a financing issue or a legal issue. So, Grey.
Wolfe: Thank you, Becky. Madam Mayor -- even though she is not here. Members of
the Council. Thanks for hearing us out. First of all, going --
Borton: Sorry to interrupt. Go ahead and state your name and address for the record.
Wolfe: I'm sorry. Grey Wolfe. Ten Mile Development. Business addresses is 1409
North Main Street, Meridian.
Borton: Thank you.
Wolfe: 83642. On October 19th we finished phase three and 12 and a half years later
-- I mean we appreciate all the stuff you guys have done to help us get this far . To start
with, Becky did a great job capsulizing what she said, but just -- there are a few
statistics that I think you guys will be interested in hearing that I didn't know until I got in
the multi-family business. Out of 368 units out there, about -- I would say almost 70
percent -- 60 percent of those units are three bedroom -- two bedroom or three
bedrooms. The amazing statistic to me was that of the people living there we offer
covered parking and the fire chief , when we had our first meeting, I had mentioned the
problem we were having with parking. Every single person gets one covered parking
stall and, then, the residents we have 368 units. Every resident will have about 1.89
cars based on the mix. If they have guests there they will have about 42 extra cars
there. So, overall, there will be 736 cars in that development, which is two cars per unit
in that -- in that vicinity. So, I guess the first thing I'm saying is the need is there. These
people got to have some place to park their car. So, what they are doing is they are
parking on the streets, they are parking in handicap spots, so it's created some
problems as we built this for the city and so we have had to have parking enforcement,
booting the cars, et cetera. So, the need is there to have some places for people to
park. What's happened and what Becky said it's 60 -- almost 68 percent of these units
that we rented as garages there 95 of them -- almost 65 percent of those are now
rented as garages and they are not being used as garages, they are being used for
storage. So, there is definitely a need there. As you look at this, I believe that we will
be able to, with the units that are in the storage units -- the number of units, there is
about 400, that most of those will be filled by residents. But what Becky is saying is
there is a couple different things that are going to be awfully hard for us to enforce. As
these people move in -- and this is a statistic that we got from our property manager.
So far at Silver Oaks -- Franklin's -- the Franklin so far -- the complex has experienced
75 to 80 percent annualized turn over, which amazes me. So, 75 to 80 percent of these
368 units are turning over every single year. So, you can imagine the number of people
moving in out -- in and out, but one of the first things they ask us when they move there
-- and the site if you're looking at the site, the site to the north where the storage units
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are right now, I developed that and sold it to Store-It. It's been full for some time. So,
the first question a resident will ask us, excuse me, is where is the nearest --
De Weerd: Mr. Wolfe, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but your time has expired. If Council
wants to extend that that -- that's great, but I'm sorry I walked in on the tail end of your --
Wolfe: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I think Mrs. McKay was introducing the application. To me this feels a little bit
like public testimony. He ended up using some of Mrs. McKay's time. I'm comfortable
with giving Mr. Wolfe three additional minutes to be able to summarize his testimony.
Perhaps could also encapsulate his comments at the end as well.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk. Thank you.
Wolfe: I will wrap it up.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wolfe: So, where I was going with this is these people if they move out -- and they are
moving as frequently as they are -- the issue that we have as operators of storage units
is policing that and trying to rent a unit to someone who is moving into the apartments
and saying, okay, you're going to rent this. You may not know when your house is
going to be completed, but you have got 12 months before you got to get your stuff out.
Pretty unrealistic, especially if you're working with contractors in this building
environment. The requirement is saying you only have a year to leave your stuff here
prohibits us from being able to do this, number one. Number two, turning down people
if we have residents that need space from another unit or someone wants to use it when
there is no space in Meridian, is somewhat problematic as a business person, how do
you tell somebody we can't rent to you because you don't live in this apartment
complex. So, there is -- understanding that this -- this -- this amenity use -- we are one
of the first people to go up with this -- we want to work with it and we want this thing to
be an amenity of the apartment complex, but as a business person it's awfully hard to
do that and regulate it and force people , if they have no place to put their stuff and their
house isn't done you have to get out. So, I don't -- I don't know how we would work with
something like that. We have gone to the extra cost to make sure it looks nice. We
have been a good neighbor with the church next door. We have helped with a walking
path. The development is fantastic. We are very proud of it and I think this is a nice
amenity. The building materials we are using match the apartments, so it looks and it's
-- it's a good aesthetic addition to the apartments , but we are struggling with the
requirement that we cannot, if we don't fill it with the people at the apartment complex,
how we can work within that rule to force them out or not rent to someone who may
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want to rent a unit and that's our biggest issue. So , we appreciate your consideration of
it. We think it's a great project. It will complete the development that's been a challenge
for all of us, but we think it's going to be a very very nice addition to the apartment
complex and to the community. So, thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Wolfe. Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Sorry. I wanted to catch you before you sat down.
Wolfe: Okay.
Milam: First of all, I think this is a fantastic idea. So, in general I think it's -- it's a great
addition to the apartment complex and I -- as a business person I completely
understand what you're saying about not being able to rent to other outside sources that
are not at the apartment complex. But, on the other hand, if all other storage units in
the area are full, so you could easily be full with nobody from the apartment complex
living there and not fixing your parking problem and not really doing anything that this is
designed to do. So, I don't know if you have thought about like a percentage or -- I
mean what -- what are you thinking, because we have to come up with something that
works for you and the development itself.
Wolfe: That's a good -- very good question. I think when you look at it what we are
planning on doing with the apartment complex -- it's a -- it's a huge advantage to have
the amenity and offering the residents when they move in a storage unit in their monthly
rental, to -- to encourage them to rent there. I don't know if we can -- we can tie it to a
percentage, but I will tell you that our -- our marketing plan at the apartments is to use
this strongly as an incentive to get people to live there. With all the multi-families
coming on the market this is a distinct advantage for us. So, I think if you want to say a
percentage, I think a minimum of 50 percent of the people that live here will be renting.
There is no way for me to know for sure because of the constant move in and move out
and, then, once they move in any of us that have storage units. Once you pretty much
have one you have it, because you have no place else to put your stuff; right? I mean I
have got one myself. So, I don't know how much longer those people would leave their
stuff, but I think there is a very safe percentage of 50 percent that when they move in
they are going to -- they are going to want that. That's one of the first questions they
ask. So, it's hard for me to get tied to a percentage, but I believe it's going to be 50
percent or around that number that we can pretty much say they are going to -- they are
going to be there and they are going to want that space.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
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Bernt: My -- my -- my concern also is aligned with Mrs. Milam's as well, because I feel
like if you are going to offer these units to other folks who have -- who are renting
nearby, I think you might be in a position where they are going to be full and, then, when
you offer these units to your own customer you might be put in a situation where you
have no room to offer anything to them. So, I would be in favor of -- and also being a
business owner I understand your concern and make -- it totally makes sense, but I
think the only way that this makes sense, if this is your business model, that there has
to be a percentage.
Wolfe: Okay. Two things I want you to consider. This will be owned by a separate
entity and a separate ownership group, even though it's -- I'm part of -- I will be part of
both of those groups. Part of the issue with that is it definitely effects on the negative
side the marketability of this piece of property if the apartment should ever sell to
someone else and this apartment complex is there, so what you're pretty much saying is
if you're going to do this, the only way this will work is if the same -- same group owns --
owns both of them. That -- that's not possible and it's going to affect the market value of
what that storage unit complex would be worth if you ever want to sell it . So, I -- I buy
your argument. If I can guarantee a hundred percent of them that's what I want, but if
anything ever changes -- multi-family changes, rental rates go down, the apartments
aren't viable and we decide to sell the apartments , then, this -- then the part of -- the
storage complex become sale proof, number one. Number two, if you look at the -- the
size of the site, one of the problems with the site is there is no access off of Franklin,
which is okay, but the design of the site, laying -- laying office buildings, a daycare, a
dentist office, the things we have tried to put on that, it's so difficult to put something on
that piece of property and not have at least half of it wasted just due to the layout and
Becky Babcock, I have worked with other people trying to do it, it's a very difficult piece
of property to put something on. So, this is -- this was the best use we could come up
with based on what the -- what the property looked like. So, I want to -- I want to --
again, we want to work with you, but there is no way -- there is no way if we are tied to
not being able to do anything outside, in my opinion it negatively impacts the value of
that property if we are tied to a percentage or I cannot sell it to somebody else at some
point or if the apartments close, you can't buy the apartment complex unless you buy
the storage units, that's problematic.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, follow up, please. Madam Mayor. Mr. Wolfe, I -- I completely get
what you're saying, but just sell it for what it is, in my opinion, you know. I mean if -- if
you're wanting these to be storage units, then, just sell them -- sell the idea to us as
storage units, as opposed to these are -- this is going to be an amenity to the current
apartment complex that you are a part owner in. I mean tell me -- I mean if it walks like
a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.
Wolfe: I agree.
Bernt: So, in this case if it's just going to be a storage facility, just sell it as that, instead
of trying to sugar coat it and make it sound a little bit better than it is.
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Wolfe: Councilman Bernt, I agree a hundred percent. I would like to do that, but we are
dealing with the Ten Mile comprehensive plan and the staff report and trying to comply
with the amenity. If we didn't have to I would be here in front of you saying I want to
build a storage unit complex. I don't want to use the nice materials we are going to use
on it, I don't want it to look like the apartments, I want to build it just like the one I built
that it's behind it that looks like a typical storage unit complex. That's what I would be
here doing. So, trying to work with all of it --
Bernt: Right.
Wolfe: -- all we are asking for is to have you just work with us on some kind of an
arrangement where we are not tied exclusively to renting to just the apartment people
and -- and I don't know how we come up with a percentage. I mean I don't -- I really
don't know.
Bernt: I get that.
Wolfe: Okay.
De Weerd: I don't know how we would enforce it.
Bernt: Right.
Wolfe: Well, we --
De Weerd: That would be fun.
Wolfe: It would be hard for both of us I think. You know, this is the thing, you're going to
move into the apartments, I'm building a house and 80 percent of these people are
moving in here from out of state, but those are our residents.
Bernt: Right.
Wolfe: You're going to come in here, you're building a home, I mean we built the
apartments and it took us -- it went over by a year. A contractor says we are going to
have your house done by August 1st, they move in August the year before, their house
isn't done till October and, then, they leave and they -- and they can't -- they can't move
out on time. It's -- it's -- it's a problem and I don't know how you evict somebody that's
current on their rent and say the city says you got to get out.
Bernt: Right.
Wolfe: You know. So, we are working with this thing. I think -- I believe -- I believe we
will be able to fill it for the most part with our residents --
Bernt: Right.
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Wolfe: But you can't turn people away and I don't know how you kick them out and
that's what we are trying to work with this amenity thing, which -- which you just
mentioned, it's not that -- I would like to just come here and say I want to build a storage
unit complex, but I want it to work with the apartments. You know, even if it wasn't an
amenity requirement, we want it to be that way. So, it's going to be a nice thing. We
just got to somehow figure out how we can work through this it has to be rented only to
those residents.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Given that this isn't going in the middle of a single family residential subdivision
that it's right off of a major arterial at the -- near the intersection of another major one
and we are really close to a major freeway exit, this makes perfect sense to go right
where it is the way that you're asking. So, if we believe in the free market and we
believe what's on the homepage of our website where it says built for business and
designed for living, every portion of this situation fits into exactly what everybody is
trying to accomplish. So, really, the only two questions we should be asking ourselves
is, Mr. Nary, as an accessory use can we justify this and , if not, can we change the code
safely and promptly to not affect others, but accomplish the purpose here?
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, a couple
things -- and what I guess I want to clarify is something that Mr. Wolfe said. I -- what I
read is the condition was placed by Planning and Zoning is that the people could only
use the storage one year after they moved out, not one year after they moved in. So,
they could be moved into another house and still have storage -- using that storage unit.
So, I wasn't clear what your statement was, but that's not what P&Z recommended.
Secondarily, what's the problem here is your Ten Mile area specific plan is what's driving
the zoning that you wanted in this area when we created that . All residential districts --
the storage units are accessory units in a residential zone. So, that's why the staff
requirement was that it has to be accessory to the use that's there , which is the
apartment complex. If self storage immediately to the north applied to put this here, the
staff would have denied it, because it's not allowed to have a zone here that's other than
residential in this area. That's the problem. Your Ten Mile plan already states what's
there. So, the property owner Mr. Wolfe or anybody else knew that's what the
conditions were when you developed this property is that's what's allowed there. So,
you can't change the code. The plan already is there that says this is what's -- the type
of zone that you're granting and that's what's allowed in the zone. It's only accessory
uses and that's what the accessory is to the adjacent property. That's the whole -- that's
the whole mix of the plan. So, I don't know how you can change any of that . Your code
only allows it as an accessory use in every residential zone, not just R-15. So, I think
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the staff's recommendation is correct. There isn't a way around it. That's what your
plan contemplated was these types of uses in the Ten Mile area.
Wolfe: Two quick things just to mention it. There is a stoplight planned for Umbria,
which is right on the corner, because the traffic is there, so it's the borderline between
the church and the apartments and where the storage units are there is a traffic light
planned there. It's already approved going in. There on the 20th -- Mr. Doolin is going
to be in front of you on the 20th for the development to the west and that's the
development right next to the apartments. And the third thing is this is a 3.53 acre
parcel. If I were going to build storage units, the average one is about eight acres. So,
from the standpoint of building a storage unit complex on a 3.53 acre parcel , not the
best thing. So, it's -- it's a great use for right in front of the apartments, but it's not the
greatest storage unit facility from the standpoint of a business investment . You would
want something bigger. You know, eight -- eight, nine, ten acres. This -- that's built
small to try to have it fit there and, you know, again, we are grappling with this, because
of this accessory use. I think we can market it that way, but there is no way for me to
guarantee what the percentages are going to be inside that use or what I'm really going
to do with the property, because it's really going to have to be one big business, you
know, because of the parking and the layout of the thing or maybe two small ones and
the problem is marketing that to -- for a business use. It's been a real issue for us to try
to get somebody interested in that.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question actually for Sonya. The -- and I'm asking you to kind of put on your
way back machine hat. When we had the storage facility before us at Spurwing that
came through as an accessory use as well and I just -- I don't -- I don't recall that we
limited the amount that could be sold to people who lived near Spurwing. I mean I'm
just -- I'm trying to -- I'm trying to figure out where we did this before -- or Caleb. And
maybe I'm wrong in my -- in my recollection on that.
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I could be wrong, too. It hasn't been that
long ago, but I don't recall specifically. What I think is different there is I don't think that
was ancillary or accessory use to Spurwing, that was a standalone in a commercial
district. They requested C-N zoning, if memory serves, for that and it wasn't restricted
to use here and that's kind of the rub here is the application says it's accessory to a
large multi-family project. Now, we are hearing it's -- well, maybe, but we reserve the
right to sell it to others, which I get, but the zoning is R-15 and as Counsel Nary said, it's
only ancillary in the R zone. If you're going to zone it to residential district it needs to be
tied back to that -- those properties where people are living directly. So, back to
Spurwing, though. I believe that's a different scenario and we do allow -- now the
storage units have to be ancillary, like you guys said -- called it. If it's going to be open
to the public, then, zone it appropriately. Don't zone it residential, because that's
misleading to have it -- and that's just -- that's what we -- what Sonya evaluated was the
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application that was submitted and that's what was stated in the narrative was this is
ancillary to the apartment complex.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, to clarify, this would we have no issues if we just zoned it commercial?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, so there are -- the Ten Mile specific area plan
does convolute it a little bit there and I see where they are going, but that's not what
they applied for. We -- we could do a map amendment and change that, but let's call it
what it is; right? Let's not zone it something and tweak it and, then, all of a sudden
you're left with a commercial complex in a residential zone. So, it's not that simple, I
wish it was, but there are some standards in the Ten Mile specific area plan that have
been talked about that it makes a little bit tougher for them to do this, but that's why staff
supported it, because it was, again, directly tied to -- but -- but that said, I think I -- I see
the need for this, too. I mean I -- I see it. I think we can -- to some -- with their help
justify a commercial zone if that's really what it should be. The underlying zoning, was
my point, should match the land use that's happening here.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I had a question for Mr. Wolfe earlier. So, you keep using an example of
somebody's house, they move in in August and their house isn't done the following
August, they need to leave their stuff there, but maybe for more than a year, where are
these people going? If they are moving out, but their house isn't done, where are they
going?
Wolfe: Well, no, they won't -- excuse me. That's what Mr. Nary was saying. They
move in -- they move in -- when they initially move in. They need a storage unit. When
they move out what -- if -- what -- he's correct, when they move out they have up to a
year to leave their stuff there. If they don't have their stuff out in a year we would have
to kick them out. So, when they move out. They may or may not move their stuff , they
may want to elect to keep it there. They may want to keep an extra car there. There is
-- there is no way for us to really say in the beginning of the lease you have to be out of
here in a year if you're not -- a year after you move out of the apartments. That's the
first thing. Secondly, I think it's really problematic when they move in to put that
requirement on them when they move in , to say that even if you don't have a place to
take your stuff, you have still got to be out a year after you leave the apartments. That's
-- that's the problematic part of this whole thing I think for us is policing that, number
one. Number two, how do you tell somebody who comes and wants to rent one you
can't rent one, because you -- you don't live here.
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Milam: Move in.
Wolfe: If the apartments are full -- and the good news is right now they are all full. I
mean the apartments are going to be full by the end of the year and we will be full. If
they are full, then, that's problematic. So, you discriminate or you have to turn
somebody away. So, it's -- it's -- it's a hard thing to work with. We want to figure out a
way to work with the staff and work within the plan, it's just -- we don't know how to do it
and so I -- to Mr. -- to Councilman Bernt's -- if I could say for sure limit it to 50 percent,
that's okay, but, then, what if it's not full and the lending -- we have got a lender that's
going to loan money on the thing and we have this condition put on us, that becomes
problematic when you go to the bank and they say, hey, if you might not be full we are
not going to loan you the money.
Bernt: Right.
Wolfe: So, that's a problem with the whole thing. So, it's -- it's -- you got all these
different conundrums you're trying to get through. That's the issue.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Bernt: What?
Little Roberts: Sorry.
Bernt: I'm just kidding. I just -- that was so -- that was a joke.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Grey, thank you for being here.
Wolfe: You bet.
Little Roberts: A couple of questions. How many storage units are there in the facility?
Wolfe: Help me here. Four hundred and twelve.
Little Roberts: Okay. And do you currently have any requirements or anything
regarding people using their garages for storage, so that you can encourage them to get
out of their garages, into storage and park?
Wolfe: We don't and the reason we don't is there is no available storage in Meridian for
these people right now. Everybody is on a waiting list and that's -- that's the problem,
we don't have a requirement, we need to make it a requirement. Once we have a
solution for them we would make it a requirement, they have to be used for
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automobiles. But we don't, because we had one -- excuse me -- one person move in
two weeks ago, they rented four garages at 125 dollars apiece. So, they have four of
these garages tied up. One resident from California that rented a three bedroom has
four of them full of stuff. So, we -- our plan is to require that, but you can't really require
it when people say I am not moving in unless I have a place to put my stuff . Does that
make sense?
Little Roberts: It does. Madam Mayor? Grey, is there a way that I -- because I totally
understand the business aspect of it and needing to be full and how do you monitor all
of it. Can you monitor it through marketing to your residents first and, then, potentially
just open it up to the public for those that aren't occupied?
Wolfe: Yes, we can and our plan is working with -- working with the property
management company we have that manages it, is including a storage unit in their
rental lease, giving them discounts to encourage them to rent there . I don't -- I don't
think we are going to have to twist their arms too much, because they don't have
anyplace to go, but that would be the part that we would want to do. But understand
that the Franklin is the name of the apartment complex -- on the landscape plan the
Franklin is in front of that storage unit. So, when people pull in there it looks like the
storage unit is part of the apartment complex. That's the way it's been designed. So, it
will be primarily for the residents. We are going to make sure that those residents have
a break to be able to use that facility first and, then, if the general public came after that,
then, they would come. But we will -- we are going to plan on marketing it to our people
first and making it part of the enticement to get them to rent there. If you look at all the
apartment complexes that are going up in Meridian, we think that's a real hook and an
edge for us to get them to move there, because anyplace else it's full in Meridian. So,
we think that's going to be an advantage to rent more apartments, so that's our plan is
to build this and use that as a marketing tool.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I was just joking, by the way, previously. I would
love to give as much time to Mrs. Roberts as she needs. So, basically, Mr. Wolfe, I --
through further clarification I completely get the issue that you have and the problem
that you're facing. It's -- it's almost to me, my opinion, you have issues with the -- you
have two resolutions. Either you keep it as is and -- because we are under a code, we
have -- I mean as a city that's what makes us organized and that's how we are able to
enforce the beautification and make sure that we are organizing the city and everyone is
safe and so -- so, you either -- either you build it as presented and choose whether or
not you rent to outside individuals or you come back in with a -- with a -- you know,
proposed project where the zoning is different so this issue is not a problem anymore.
Wolfe: Okay.
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Bernt: My fellow council members may disagree with that , but right now those are the
two. Those are the two issues that you have.
Wolfe: To be -- to be honest with you, because I do own -- I mean I will be ownership in
both of them, I don't think I -- I wouldn't change the design any, I wouldn't change the
way it looks any, I would leave it exactly the same way it is and I would market it the
same way I would market it. I mean it makes perfect sense. So, I -- if I understand you,
to repeat your statement back to you, come back in and request it to be a rezone,
something different, so we don't have the requirement. Is that --
Bernt: I mean that would be an option that we could -- we -- we certainly can discuss,
but it would certainly make it so that you wouldn't be violating any code, you know, if
you were wanting to keep it as is, but rent it out to individuals outside your complex.
Wolfe: Becky, do you have anything you want to -- do you have questions or anything
like that?
De Weerd: However, I think -- I think it is a little bit more complicated than that. I
believe that Mr. Nary had said it would require a map amendment. It is part of the
Comprehensive Plan. It's also part of the Ten Mile area specific plan that is -- has its
own set of design criteria, which Mr. Wolfe addressed that he would keep it the same,
but that is not allowed in that area specific plan. Yes. Mr. Nary, any --
Nary: Madam Mayor, that's -- that's what I would have said exactly the same. It -- I
think it's too complicated to -- even as a remand. I was thinking was that a possibility,
but we are talking about a much more complicated application , because now we are
actually requesting a different zone, which might require amendment to either the comp
plan or the Ten Mile specific plan and a zone that would allow this type of use, like Mr.
Hood was saying, that could allow for that. I think that maybe more complex than a
simple remand and I don't know if Mrs. McKay has a different perspective of that, but it
might be better if they want to do what they would like to do, to withdraw this application
and bring back an application with the proper zoning and the request for the appropriate
amendments that are necessary to make that fit the Ten Mile plan and maybe Planning
has a different perspective, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: And -- and the -- the land uses were -- that were contemplated in these
areas were all part of the Ten Mile area specific plan, so that plan is mirrored with the
Comprehensive Plan, but gives the Comprehensive Plan more detail.
Bernt: I -- Madam Mayor, I certainly didn't want to open up a can of worms here, but I
feel like I sort of have inadvertently. It's just me -- maybe I wasn't familiar with the
layers of the onion as it relates to this geographic area in the comp plan. So, I could be
-- Mr. Wolfe, maybe the advice I just gave you was completely off base .
Wolfe: I like the idea.
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Bernt: Thank you for saying that.
McKay: Becky McKay. Engineering Solutions. Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, we
did have this discussion with the staff and the staff said, you know, if you were to come
to us and ask for say a rezone to like an I-L or -- or one of the other commercial zones
that would allow just a straight storage facility, we would have to recommend denial,
because that wouldn't be in compliance with the Ten Mile area specific plan. So, we
were kind of -- you know. And the staff admitted -- I mean even Caleb said I think what
you're trying to do is a good thing. I think it will benefit the multi -family. I think it's
needed out there in the Ten Mile area specific area plan, but this is how, you know, you
would have to go about it. So, you know, we have been grappling with this, how to
make it work, and I guess, you know, when -- when -- when Grey and his partners and
their attorney read the language the staff has here it -- then it became very glaring that,
okay, now, you know, what if -- what if we encounter a problem and the -- you know, we
are only at 75 percent capacity with ours and -- and we can't fill the 25, because we
don't want to violate our condition. I mean we want to play by the rules and -- and so,
you know --
Wolfe: So -- so -- Grey Wolfe. Ten Mile Development. In the -- in the -- I guess the
write up there is a statement in -- it's under two -- under city -- city agency comments
under Planning Division, Item 2-B. There is a statement that reads, quote: The storage
facility is allowed to operate in conjunction with -- as an accessory use to the multi-
family development to the north, i.e., Silver Oaks and, then, it goes on and it says: And
shall only provide -- if you read that statement and the statement ended at Silver Oaks,
that it was to operate in conjunction with the apartment complex Silver Oaks, period,
that handles it. It's the only provide storage service for residents of that multi -family
development. Providing storage for nonresidents -- it goes on and on and on. I guess
my point is we can live with the language that says it's allowed to operate in conjunction
with -- as an accessory use to the multi-family development to the north. The part we
can't live with is the restrictive -- the restrictive statement there that that statement
reads. So, what -- kind of like what we said, we are going -- we -- it's -- it makes
business sense, we are going to do that. If you just struck the rest of it, then, we can --
we can live with the code. We can do what the intent is here. It's just that there is no
commercial way for us to police it, prevent it, unless we ask for the rezone and, then,
the staff doesn't -- doesn't want to recommend a commercial rezone for the use. So, we
are kind of at a loss. I just don't really know where to go.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I would say yes, but I fear future councils who would go, oh, look what they are
doing over there, that's the -- I'm a big ask for forgiveness than permission , but you're
much wiser not to -- to get to the point that you're at today. So, really my question is --
you had mentioned that -- the idea and, then, staff said that they would have to
recommend denial. My question to staff is assuming you recommend denial and we
would be even legally allowed to do it anyway, would you rather us -- I know I'm going to
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put you in a weird position here, because I'm going to ask for an opinion, because you
guys do an amazing job of making sure that we are straight and understanding what
code says, but -- but, I -- I'm curious for an opinion, given especially that we -- at least I
don't -- I'm assuming there is nobody here that wants to throw a fit over this idea.
Would you rather us go against the -- a recommendation for denial and approve it,
assuming we could, or would you rather us change the map to allow the zoning and go
that route?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, Councilmen, anyway you go a storage
facility -- a standalone storage facility is not a desire d use in the Ten Mile interchange
specific area plan. Staff was very clear with the applicant and that's why the DA
provision is worded it as it is upfront, that it is only allowed as an accessory use, even if
you were to amend the future land use map included in the Ten Mile interchange plan,
even if you went to a mixed use commercial designation , storage facilities are not a
desired use in the Ten Mile plan and that -- that was the plan that was approved by City
Council. Certainly if you want to approve this through that means , I would suggest that
you go through a map amendment and a rezone. Staff cannot make a recommendation
of approval on that, but that is something if you wish to do, that that is certainly your
purview.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And here I find myself being the future council to the past council that they
were afraid of when -- when making that plan saying, okay, here is what we are going to
outline, because this is what we don't want in the future, but in this circumstance, given
that it's -- it's not -- you know, you're not coming to us saying, hey, y'all want to
develop these 45 acres into storage units, which may make sense to us to do, where it
is a very atypical -- I heard that word earlier. I have never used it, but I like it -- situation
that I think makes sense for us to ponder on the -- on that -- or at least contemplate on
it.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, I guess I -- or to Planning staff, is this something that could be an
accessory to this development and the neighboring development if -- if that got him
more customers? Because it's the same use. I -- just looking for additional opportunity.
Allen: Madam Mayor, the UDC defines accessory use as a use or activity that is
incidental and secondary to the principal use and is conducted upon the same property.
So, that's where we get hung up on the accessory use.
Wolfe: And I like that -- Madam Mayor. I like that idea and I think Mr. Dillon would be
open to it. He's reduced the density. I think that's a great idea. But you still have the
problem of someone coming in off the street and how do you turn those -- how do you
turn those people away --
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De Weerd: Very easy. You don't live here.
Wolfe: Okay. Okay.
De Weerd: Any other questions for Mr. Wolfe? Okay. Thank you for this new
application.
Bernt: I learned something today. Thank you.
Wolfe: Thank you very much. Appreciate it.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to provide testimony?
Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I mean this -- this is where, you know, I grew up with frustrations with
government. Well intended purposes in the past by a past council to, you know, create
this Ten Mile plan with the Comprehensive Plan -- the whole thing that brought us here
today, which now a past council completely unable to perceive this specific situat ion is
now making us go, well, this is the way it is. We would love to figure out a way to make
it work, but it's just too complicated. That -- that's why we are -- often that we can claim
that we are built for business, designed for living, but in this circumstance, unless we
figure out how to make this happen, because there is nobody objecting to it, we are not.
So, whatever -- whatever it is, whether -- you know, they make the recommendation for
denial because it doesn't fit and we approve it anyway or we make a change to the map
or we pluck this out of the Ten Mile area plan -- whatever means we have to be able to
make this work I think is incumbent upon us to figure it out and make it so .
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: A council member a couple of months back went on and on and pontificated
about trusting the process and that sticks with me in a lot of the things that we do, that
we have to trust the process and plans, like a Comprehensive Plan or a Ten Mile plan,
are designed specifically so that City Council doesn't make a willy nilly decision on a
Tuesday night. We plan, we prepare, and, yes, plans don't take into every single
circumstance before, but it's designed to represent the value of the community and the
vision for our city at the time. What's great is that we have got a process to amend that
and I think there is an opportunity for development to come before us and to me I think it
seems appropriate. What I think is really great to see and what I can sense your
frustration, Council Member Palmer, is that it sounds like Council says, boy, storage
units today, yes, we think makes sense there, but that's contrasted with do we really
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want to fit a -- you know, a square peg in a round hole, especially when there is ample
opportunity for development to come in and do that on their own. Honestly, a storage
unit that is for apartment dwellers that is an amenity and an accessory I think is a
forward thinking idea and I think ten years from now we are going to have lots of multi-
family that are going to include storage units and -- and Mr. Wolfe is just ahead of the
curve on that and I know development is taking notice and saying, holy cow, that's a
great idea, we got to do more of that. Council Member Milam and I were talking like, oh,
storage facility, that makes sense. No neighborhood opposition. Boy, this seems like a
-- like a no brainer. But, then, you dig in and it puts staff in a very awkward spot and I
know that you guys know this, but I think it's important say, it's not staff who says, oh,
we are choosing to deny that. It's not they wake up and they didn't have breakfast and
they are in a bad mood and so they are going to deny, they are following the code.
They are doing a great job. They are doing what we ask them to do. So, it's not staff
that's denying, it's the plan that's caused the denial. So, I like this idea, I like it a lot
when it's designed for your apartment -- you know, your residents. If you want to bring it
forth as something that's open to the public, I'm great with that. Recognizing you're
going to get a recommend from denial from -- from -- from staff, but I for the most part
would be supportive of that should it come back in a different form . So, I -- I appreciate
Council Member Palmer's comments. I do think that we are built for business and
designed for living, because I think we have got a really fair process that allows both
parties to discuss this issue and render a decision they think is most appropriate. But
planning is an important part of what we do as a community and we are not Houston
where you just build whatever you want, however you want, whenever you want. We
build plans, we run the plans, we trust the process.
De Weerd: Okay. So, we still have an open public hearing. Any further questions for
the applicant? Any further information from staff? Any further comments from the
applicant?
Allen: Madam Mayor, if I may just make a clarification. I have heard some different
discussion going on in support of this standalone storage facility. I would note that it
would need to come back in with a map amendment to the future land use map to
change the designation. Just a new application wouldn't be accepted, because it's a
prohibited use in the district. So, just for clarification.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, I'm assuming -- I'm assuming that removing the condition that allows only
the use from the Franklin apartments would, then, not have staff approval; is that
correct? You have that as a condition in there. They want to remove it. You
recommended approval if we that was removed.
Hood: Madam Mayor, if I -- sorry, Sonya. I will just talk about it real quick. The real
problem is our code doesn't allow that , so you can't -- you effectively can't do that,
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because city code prohibits it. It would be like allowing a multi-family four-plex in an R-2
zone. Our code just doesn't allow it and that's the issue. That's wh y the condition is
there, because the code says the only way you get to do this if it's on the same property
as the primary structure and it's tied to and commensurate with the -- so, it's not -- I wish
it were that easy and we could just strike it and say, well, now it does. But the condition,
basically, is just regurgitating city code based on that zone this is how it has to operate.
Milam: Right.
De Weerd: They tried to make it work as an accessory use if it were for the tenants.
Milam: It makes sense as an accessory use. You get that far. I was just trying to figure
out if it -- if it legally was --
Allen: And Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, just to answer your question more
directly, even if you delete the latter portion of that sentence, the first part says the
storage facility is allowed to operate in conjunction with and as an accessory use to the
multi-family development to the north, i.e., Silver Oaks. I mean to me that's pretty --
pretty clear with just that statement that -- the last part was added on there just to make
absolute clear.
Milam: But we don't necessarily have to have that wording in there. You're okay with it,
deleting that last part of it?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
Allen: You can do what you want, but the -- the -- it's -- it's still only allowed to operate
as an accessory use.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Allen: We can't approve something that's against city code.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Madam Mayor, that's -- it's the inclusion of the final sentence or the -- and shall
only provide -- that makes it an accessory use and if you strike that, that's the challenge.
From the way code is written if you strike that language, then, it's no longer an
accessory use, so it's no longer compliant, but -- I mean this seems like a disagreement
-- or I guess a choice of path that should have been resolved months ago.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
Borton: Because if you pick the path of going down this type of application early on
you're picking a path that says we are committed to making this complex available to
these apartments to the -- to the north and that the application, it seems like, requires it.
It's not a discretionary call for us. So, if you want to apply that way, it sounds like that's
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what the applicant would be asking us to approve. If they don't want to do that, maybe
it's withdrawn or denied. Path two would be to do the package of applications as a map
amendment and zone it differently to allow this to be utilized by anybody. So , the
applicant, knowing the restrictions, for better or for worse, that are placed on this
property, picked the path. The problem is that we got all the way to this stage without
an agreement on that qualification for use, which is not discretionary. But it sounds like
from Mr. Nary and you, Sonya, that we don't have the choice to strike language, it's the
requirement of that zone. So, I'm sort of puzzled why we are here.
Milam: Madam Mayor? So, in the third sentence, though, it says as an accessory use.
So, the second part was added on afterwards and that's just being redundant. So, it
already says in the first part of the sentence. So, basically, we are talking about
policing; right? What happens if they -- if -- if it's approved like that as an accessory use
for those apartments, just like it says in there, and, then, they choose to rent to the
apartment next door?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
Milam: What happens? Like --
Borton: The question is -- and Mr. Nary is better suited to answer. The -- the problem I
see is the mere declaration of something as an accessory use doesn't make it so. I
mean you could -- you could state that something is an accessory use and merely
stating it might not be enough.
Nary: Madam Mayor? I was just waiting until everybody is done. Madam Mayor,
Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, maybe to answer your question. Any
-- anybody that violates the code is subject to code enforcement. So, the city could take
civil action against them, file an injunction, go to court over that when they are
knowingly violating the code. I agree with staff 's addition to the sentence to make it
clear what accessory is. What I would prefer the City Council not do is reinvent the
meaning of accessory, because accessory has three different terms in the UDC that
have different meanings, but yet all have the same language about tied to the property,
attached to the use that's already existing, on the same property. That's been
consistently interpreted by the staff in a variety of different applications to mean the
same thing. Related to the property. On the property. For the use of the people on the
property. So, to reinvent that with 50 percent or whatever percentage would completely
not only changed the meaning of that section, but would, then, reinterpret that code for
everyone and if you look at the Ten Mile plan and the area it covers, if you look at the
aerial map of the area, a majority of its undeveloped, so you would be changing it for all
of the area there without really -- with -- with one piece and so that's -- that's the
concern. I think Council Member Borton is correct, they could have come forward with a
request to change the map with the staff's recommended denial, with the statements as
Planning has stated, that was not intended in the Ten Mile plan. They chose not to do
that, they chose to apply knowing the staff recommendation would be it has to be just
for the Silver Oaks facilities and they chose to continue coming to ask -- and they got an
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exception, a very slight exception from Planning and Zoning to allow them to lease them
to their residents for one year after there are no longer a resident, which is very much
stretching the code anyway and they have got that exception. To go beyond that would
pretty much swallow up this -- this accessory definition to mean probably nothing and
that's what I would be concerned about.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I guess -- I guess for clarification, does accessory the use mean to that use and
only that use? So -- I mean it could be an accessory use and the people there -- it's
theirs, on their property, they use it, but in code does that mean that nobody else can
use it?
Nary: So, Council Member Milam, to answer your question, so accessory use, as it's
stated in this case, a use or activity that's incidental and secondary to the principal use
and it's conducted upon the same property. So , it has to be related to the use that's on
the property and accessory use home occupation has the exact same language,
secondary to the -- to the residential unit on the property. Accessory structure, again, is
related to the use that is already existing on the property. So, we use accessory in lots
of other areas of the code as well, not just the UDC, but it's always related to the use
that's existing on the property and a relationship to that use.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: The beauty of the extra words in the sentence that was included is that it's --
it's adding clarification to the layman that this is how the city is going to interpret this,
whether these words are there or not and so as much as any of us may like to , you
know, with a wink and a nod say we will take this portion out and, then, interpret it how
you will and we just may not enforcement it, doesn't actually provide any protection from
government. So, I -- I wish that we could approve this tonight, but I don't think it's going
to help you to do that. My question for you guys would be do you want us to approve it
with the language that it is today and, then, you can decide later whether -- whether to
bring a map amendment and a rezone to something th at would, then, provide you the
protections from us later on or continue if you can remove it or deny it today.
Bernt: Madam Mayor? Maybe a different question --
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Maybe -- maybe a different question to ask would be is t his Council open to the
idea of a map amendment. That would probably be a better question to ask that
wouldn't involve --
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De Weerd: I guess I see Mr. Nary shaking his head.
Nary: Sorry, Council Member Bernt, I don't mean to interrupt you. I would really be
concerned about that sort of global discussion. You haven't noticed that. They haven't
asked for it. We haven't noticed it. You're having a discussion that's not been on the
notice to the public. You're discussing potentially a map amendment to your plan that
hasn't been asked for. I would prefer you not do that.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Would it be appropriate for us to discuss -- because that's been the point of the
topic is -- is whether we are open to a storage unit on this property designed like this
that would be available to people off of the property. Not necessarily a map
amendment, but are we open to this being -- taking place.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that would probably be -- at least it's
more relevant to what they brought up. If you're -- if the direction after that was, then,
go back and go do the proper application to make that happen , that would be
appropriate.
De Weerd: Same question, different way to ask it.
McKay: Planning on the fly. Sorry. Becky McKay. Engineering Solutions.
De Weerd: So are we.
McKay: We kind of -- we talked about the condition and so they fully understand and
they don't want to put the Council, you know, on the hot seat here and they understand
that staff is doing their job. I mean the staff -- their hands are -- nine times out of ten
their hands are tied. Or 9.9 times out of ten their hands are tied.
De Weerd: And I think, Becky, too, we have been criticized that we are not following our
plan.
McKay: Sure. So, I think, you know, they -- they would, obviously, like to move forward
and if this is the only way that they can move forward at this juncture is with the
condition as it reads, then, at least we would have an approval in our -- in our pocket
and, then, we can regroup with the staff and talk about what is a palatable solution , so
that, then, we could come back and go through the process and have the discussion
when you guys don't have to go on the record at this time and say whether you would
be supportive of a Comprehensive Plan amendment or a commercial zone that would
allow this, so that they would have some flexibility and -- and I think we got this --
Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, this far because they weren't quite sure how to
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interpret and digest that condition and, you know, when they started doing the what ifs
and, then, their attorney came in and said, you know, what -- I don't -- I don't like it --
you know. But I guess we would like -- we think this is a good use. I think it's excellent.
It's small in scale. It's not like your standard, you know, storage facility. This apartment
complex needs it. This area needs it. I would like to see it approved and if the only way
it can get approved is with this condition intact as the staff and the Planning and Zoning
Commission has laid it out, then -- then we accept that. We will get with your staff and
we will work on a creative application to bring back before this body, so that we don't
run into any code violations in the future. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Becky.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Because we already asked if there was other public testimony, I move that we
close the public hearing on Item 9-D.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Enthusiastic, too.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we approve H-2018-0109 with staff conditions.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Is there any further discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just briefly, I think we don't want to have -- this is crystal clear, which is really
perhaps difficult, but it's blunt, and if it's four or five years down the road and there is an
application for a DA modification to try and dilute that language, it's not going to -- we
won't have the discretion to do it then either. So, I know you know that, Becky, but just -
- just so we are clear, this is one of those hurdles that can't be lowered. So, it's going
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forward understanding it has to be complied with and there is not language down the
road that I think can change it, so it's being approved subject to it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Sorry. Is everybody good on the one year after moving out? Now that was
another condition that Planning and Zoning put on. I originally came here thinking that
was too long based on turnover and get in the same kind of situation where you run out
of room for the people that have moved in when you still have everybody that moved
out a year ago, but at this point it's kind of --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I am one that supports striking condition 2-B, but I'm also not so beholden
that I'm going to oppose the motion. I appreciate where Council Woman Milam is
coming from. I think anytime we create weird scenarios like this it's always hard to keep
track. It's challenging to enforce. Are you going to have somebody who wants to move
in and can't get into the storage unit calling code enforcement saying somebody's been
in there 366 days? I mean I just -- anytime we add these types of things I think they just
are scenarios for more issues than they are worth, but --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Another question I had is -- was -- was there ever an agreement with the
adjacent with -- with -- in regard to the culvert across the Kennedy Lateral? I know that
was one of the things they wanted to come to a conclusion tonight. Was that ever --
Nary: Madam Mayor. I believe the adjacent property owner said they did not want any
contribution, that they were going to construct it on their own. So, you didn't need that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Okay. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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E. Public Hearing for Alturas Rezone (H-2018-0105) by Travis
Barney, Alturas 1550 Tech Lane, LLC , Located at 1550 S. Tech
Ln.
1. Request: Rezone of 7.24 acres of land from I -L to C -G zone
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-E is a public hearing for H-2018-0105. I will open this public
hearing with staff coming comments.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: Sorry. Apologize. I didn't mean to cut you off. This application has within it --
one of the issues is a cross-access easement that -- to an adjacent property owner who
I have represented for well over ten years, the pet hospital, and there is -- one of the
conditions is facilitating a cross-access easement to solve some access issues here.
I've helped represent my client do that. There is no interest in this application at all or
the applicant. I have not had any discussion with the city in any regards to this, but --
and I talked to legal counsel to confirm that -- whether or not I could legally participate.
He's confirmed that I could. I'm still, nonetheless, going to error on the side of caution
and while it might be permissible, I think just even the perception if I'm involved in any
component of a condition of approval, I would rather just stay out. So, I have been out
and I will just recuse myself from this application for that reason. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you for -- for that. Okay.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before
you is a request for a rezone. This site consists of 7.24 acres of land. It's zoned I-L,
light industrial, located at 1550 South Tech Lane on the north side of West Overland
Road, midway between Linder and Meridian Roads. This property was part of a
planned development approved in 2001 for Treasure Valley Technical Center , which
encompassed a total of 33 acres of land and allowed professional and sales offices ,
daycare center, and a community and neighborhood shopping center , retail use, with
approve -- with approval of a conditional use permit, along with any allowed uses in the
I-L zoning district. A concept plan was approved for the planned development as shown
there on the right. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for the
site is commercial. A rezone of 7.24 acres of land is proposed from the I-L to the C-G
zoning district consistent with the future land use map designation of commercial . The
existing and continued use of the property for retail, office, and church uses is a
principally permitted us in the proposed C-G zoning district. No new development or
redevelopment of the site is proposed at this time. The applicant is requesting the
terms of the planned development no longer apply to this property as a provision of the
subject rezone application. At the direction of the city attorney staff has included a
provision in the development agreement for the terms of the planned development to no
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longer apply as requested, rather than modifying the original planned development.
City services, sewer and water service and police and fire protection, are currently
provided to this property. Due to the limited sanitary sewer capacity available to this
property, all new proposed tenants should first obtain approval from the Public Works
Department prior to leasing and occupying space within the building. There is an
existing full access for this site via South Tech Lane, a private local street, and an
existing full access via West Overland Road, an arterial street, shared with the property
owner to the east, Intermountain Pet Hospital. The ingress access to this site via
Overland is located on the adjacent property to the east, while their egress is located on
this property. This is the sole access for the property to the east. Although the shared
access physically exists and is being used by both parties, there is no ingress-egress
easement currently in place. Although I will say that the -- the applicant's representative
did e-mail an easement to me today that was signed by the applicant and the city
attorney's office was reviewing that to ensure compliance with our conditions of
approval of this application. Mr. Nary may be able to clarify when he gets back if that
easement meets our requirements or not. The applicant was intending to get that
easement recorded today, but I have not yet seen a recorded copy of that easement . I
wanted to mention that. So, because previous to this there has been no legal means of
ingress to this property or egress for the adjoining property via Overland Road, staff is
recommending a reciprocal cross-access ingress-egress easement is recorded with the
adjacent property to the east prior to rezone ordinance approval if the applicant wishes
to retain the access via Overland Road. Street buffers, landscaping, and sidewalks
exist on this site along West Overland Road and South Tech Lane in accord with UDC
standards. There are two existing loading dock areas, one on the west and one on the
east end of the building facing West Overland Road, that the applicant wishes to
continue using. Current design standards do not allow loading docks to face an arterial
street. However, because the loading docks were lawfully constructed at the time, they
are considered a nonconforming use and are allowed to remain and be used subject to
the standards for nonconforming uses. In an industrial district a minimum one off-street
parking space is required for every 2 ,000 square feet of gross floor area, compared to
one space for every 500 square feet in commercial districts. A total of 222 off-street
parking spaces currently exists on this site. However, The eastern portion of the
parking lot is proposed to be reconfigured, which will reduce the parking spaces to 215.
Based on the square footage of the building 106,000 square feet, a minimum of 212
spaces are required. The existing and proposed parking complies with the minimum
UDC standards, although staff is concerned there will be adequate parking for the uses.
The applicant should be mindful of the type of potential tenants and their park ing needs
to ensure adequate parking continues to be provided on the site. The Commission did
recommend approval of the proposed rezone with the requirement of a development
agreement per the provisions in the staff report. Summary of the Commission hearing.
Hethe Clark, Spink Butler, the applicant's representative, testified in favor. No one
testified in opposition or commented on the application , nor was any written testimony
received. Key issues by the -- of discussion by the Commission. They were in favor of
the reconfiguration of the access for the site and the adjacent site to the east. They did
discuss the loss of industrial zoned property. The Commission did not make any
changes to the staff recommendation and there are no outstanding issues for Council
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tonight. If I may just clarify with Mr. Nary. Did Mr. Baird verify that access easement; do
you know?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, Mr. Baird was able to review that
before the end of the day. This meets all the requirements and so it's good -- good to
go.
Allen: It just needs to be recorded, yes, to comply with staff's recommended conditions.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, after Mr. Borton's comments earlier, I probably have a potential
concern as well. Alturas is one of my customers. However, Alturas Capital has many
businesses that they own and operate. I currently do not do business , nor I don't
believe have I ever done any business with this -- this particular business that Alturas
Capital -- Alturas owns, but with that in mind, because of the perception of, you know,
that I may or may not have an interest , it probably would make sense for me to recuse
myself as well.
De Weerd: Okay.
Allen: Madam Mayor, I did -- excuse me. I'm sorry. I did forget to mention -- I did
receive written testimony from Hethe Clarke, Spink Butler, the applicant's representative
and he is in agreement with the staff report. So, I just wanted to mention that. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. If there is no questions at this point, would the applicant like to
comment?
Likes: Jeff Likes. 1119 East State Street, Eagle, Idaho. 83616. We are here on behalf
of Hethe Clarke, who double booked tonight. So, we are Alturas' architect and here
tonight for that. We are just -- we have -- we are in agreement with the staff report and I
would just stand for any questions if you had any questions at all.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Ms. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I'm not quite sure who to address this to , so I will start
with you, sir. Having been a business owner and leased quite a few different properties,
I must be honest that the limited sanitary sewer capacity and getting approval from
Public Works Department makes me really nervous. How do you handle that with
potential customers? Potential lessees?
Likes: That's a good question. This place is currently full. Like it's -- it's leased out and
I don't think at this point no one's leaving anywhere. So, I don't have an answer for you
for that. I have never actually -- in years and years of doing this I have never had that
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come up in any project and so I think we just address it as we go and see. I don't know,
to be honest. I don't have an answer. I mean -- you know, the place functions today
completely full. Functioned for years as whatever it was -- you know, it wasn't this full
before with -- with what uses it used to be, but it is a hundred percent full today. So, we
completely are different uses from what it originally was designed for, so --
Little Roberts: Okay. Honest answer. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
Likes: No problem.
De Weerd: Council -- oh. Mr. Clerk -- I can kind of guess no one signed up.
Coles: No sign-ups, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Just thought I would ask. Okay. Council, seeing no public testimony,
any questions for the applicant or staff at this time. Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Unless anybody else wants to recuse themselves, I think we can move to
close the public hearing on Item 9-E.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO RECUSED.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve 9-E, H-2018-0105, include staff and applicant testimony.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clark, will you
call roll.
Roll call: Borton, recused; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, recused.
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De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO RECUSED.
F. Budget Amendment for Fire Station 4 Fire Alarm Panel System
Replacement Not to Exceed $11,000
De Weerd: Item 9-F is a budget -- oh. I'm sorry. Okay. Item 9-F is a budget
amendment for Fire Station Four for a not to exceed amount and I will turn this over to
Joe.
Bongiorno: Good evening, Mayor and City Council. This is the beginning of many
times I will be standing in front of you, as I have been tagged to attend all the City
Council meetings.
De Weerd: All of them?
Bongiorno: All of them.
De Weerd: Until the end of time?
Bongiorno: Until the end of time.
De Weerd: Wow.
Bongiorno: Yes.
De Weerd: How did you do that?
Bernt: It's the short straw.
Bongiorno: I drew the short straw.
Bernt: Never do it. Don't play that game.
Bongiorno: It's all good. It's all good. The chief and I have worked it out. Anyway,
what -- what you have before you is the fire alarm system has gone bad at Station Four.
The station was built in 2006. Started in June, apparently it was throwing errors. I was
one of those guys that was getting the calls at 3:00 o'clock in the morning saying, hey,
the fire alarm system is going off at Station Four, plus it was waking up the guys,
obviously, in the station. So, I don't know if you have gotten the project evaluation, but
it's kind of got the whole list of -- of how many times people have been out there trying
to get it repaired and it finally came down to the panels need to be replaced. So , it just
sounds like the panels have gone bad to where they didn't -- they don't function at all.
So, they have a temporary solution up where we have -- we hung smoke detectors in
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the fire station, which, obviously, is not to code and so we just have this budget
amendment to get the -- the panels replaced.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I have got to know. So, when it does function what does it do?
Bongiorno: The fire alarm? So, in the fire stations --
De Weerd: It tells the fire station --
Bongiorno: Yeah. There is smoke detectors, like the one back here above Council
Member Borton, that when the fire alarm goes off it -- it sets an alarm off, goes to
dispatch, we get dispatched to the fire station as a fire. So, as someone that's been
around for what -- some of you were not here when Station Two caught fire and the
reason Station Two caught fire -- they caught it -- was they called -- the alarm company
called and said, hey, the fire alarm's going off at Station Two. So, we have had an
incident where we have had a fire. So, we -- we really need this.
De Weerd: And the fire truck is not always in the fire station.
Bongiorno: Yes. And the fire truck is not always in the fire station, which was the case
with Station Two. It was right after it opened.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Mrs. Little Roberts.
Milam: Madam Mayor? Oh.
Little Roberts: I was just going to say, if not any other questions, I move we approve
9-F --
Milam: I had a question.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Sorry.
De Weerd: It could have been part of discussion. Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Oh, yes. I'm sorry. Well, I was just wondering why it's so expensive? Like we
could put fancy alarm systems in all of our houses for that price.
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Bongiorno: That I cannot answer. I know they got the three bids that are required and
the low bids I guess was 10,900 and some change. So, that's -- that's all I know on that
part of it. Alarm systems -- fire sprinkler systems are expensive and especially in a
commercial business.
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, if there are no further questions, I would move that we
approve 9-F, the budget amendment for Fire Station Four alarm panel replacement, not
took exceed 11 ,000 dollars.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you, Joe. And congratulations.
Bongiorno: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: You really scared me when you said this is the first of many times I'm going to
stand before you. I thought you had like a whole line of budget amendments ready.
Bongiorno: Oh, no, no, no.
Item 10: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: I was kind of thinking the same. Any items under Item 10? If not, I would
entertain a motion to adjourn.
Milam: So moved.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
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MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:27 P.M.
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