HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-10-23Meridian City Council October 23, 2018.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:02 p.m., Tuesday,
October 23, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer, Genesis
Milam and Treg Bernt.
Members Absent: Anne Little Roberts.
Also present: C.Jay Coles, Bill Nary, Sonya Allen, Stephanie Leonard, Scott Colaianni,
Mark Niemeyer, Kyle Radek, David Miles and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
___ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Well, good evening. I would like to welcome you all to our City Council
meeting. It's always nice to see our Boy Scouts in the audience. We thank you for
joining us and wish you much luck on your merit badge and thank our citizens for being
in attendance as well. For the record it is Tuesday, October 23rd. It's a few minutes
after 6:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance and we have Troop 62
here to lead us in the Pledge and so I'm going to turn this over to them and let them
lead us in the instruction.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
De Weerd: And I will have our clerk give you a City of Meridian pin following -- well, not
following the meeting. We won't make you stay the whole time. But thank you for that.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I just wanted to say thank you for Troops 62. Both my boys, now in college, are
former members of Troop 62 at the Methodist Church here downtown. So, welcome
and thank you for coming.
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October 23, 2018
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Item 3: Community Invocation by Larry Woodard of Ten Mile Christian
Church
De Weerd: Item three is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Larry
Woodard with the Ten Mile Christian Church. If you will all join us in the community
invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Thank you for
joining us, Larry.
Woodard: It's been a while and I -- are we in a beard growing exercise?
Borton: It's the season.
De Weerd: It's November.
Woodard: Well, you look good. Well, let's bow. Our Dear Heavenly Father, the City of
Meridian thanks you for the blessings you have poured out on this community over the
years from a small farming center to now the second largest city in Idaho. We thank
you for the men and women who have led this community, especially during the past 15
years. I join with others in asking your blessing tonight on the City Council and our
Mayor. Together they have done a remarkable job of leadership and the entire
community has been so fortunate. I ask for your protection and for their health as they
take time to lead this growing city. Guide our key city groups who keep us safe, the
police and the fire department. The rise in opioid use is particularly troubling and I pray
that you would keep our police safe as they daily confront this epidemic. With this
growth the need for schools grows also and I see on the agenda tonight a discussion
about a new school on the western edges of the city. I pray for collective wisdom and
an early decision. Traffic is now a major issue and I pray that we elect leaders in the
upcoming election who will address the highway and street issues. We know ACHD
has worked well with these leaders and new widening of city streets is planned this next
year. May this Council be a force in moving the state highway commission forward on
projects like widening Highway 26. Our city is an interesting mix of elderly retiring from
California and young people going to school throughout this community. I thank you for
the leadership of our Mayor, who brings to the youth of this community. They represent
our future in the years to come. I pray for the city employees who daily carry out the
duties required from the decisions made by this Council. Permits, approvals, et cetera,
are a daily requirement of many of these city employees. May they continue to exhibit
the friendliness that is characteristic of Meridian. On behalf of the growing faith
community in Meridian I thank you for the hope in sometimes a very dark world where
conflict and danger seems to grow daily. If our church is any example, expansion of our
facility is required to handle the 700 to 800 youth now attending. May our faith
community be a lasting example of goodness for the next generation of Meridian youth.
In Jesus' name, amen.
Bernt: Thanks, Larry.
Woodard: You bet.
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October 23, 2018
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Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you, Larry. It's always a good city update in our talk with God.
Thank you. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There are no other -- I don't believe there are any changes to the agenda, so I
would move that it be adopted as published.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, any sign-up under Item 5?
Coles: No sign-ups, Madam Mayor.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
Borton: Mr. Borton. You're looking smashing tonight.
Borton: There is one brief sign up. If I could have a little bit of privilege. You will notice
I have this -- I'm obligated to do -- wearing a Washington State shirt. We at times have
fun up here on Council -- between the Council and Mayor about sporting events.
Sometimes Council gets a little mouthy and perhaps talks about a game that might turn
out the way it didn't -- turn out the way it's supposed to. So, I have to wear this evening
a Washington State shirt and --
De Weerd: And it looks nice, doesn't it.
Borton: Remain seated. It's okay. And for the record read the following: Let it be
known -- I might choke up -- that on the 20th day of October this year 2018, the
Cougars from Washington State are recognized to be a better football team than the
mighty Oregon Ducks.
De Weerd: And I accept.
Borton: Paying my debt.
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2018
Page 4 of 67
De Weerd: See, actually gave him a really nice shirt. It's brand new. It could have
been crimson, but -- thank you for allowing us this privilege.
Item 6: Proclamation for Red Ribbon Week
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 is a proclamation on Red Ribbon Week and I'm going to go
down to the podium and I would ask Dawn, if she's here this evening, to -- to join me.
Okay. We have a very active Mayor's -- oh, I'm sorry. Meridian Anti-drug Coalition.
When it started it was the Mayor's Anti-drug Coalition and, then, we broke off and it's
been a very active coalition and Dawn has been actively engaged also as part of our
Western Ada School District. So, thank you for being here. We also have a bust over
here of Enrique Camarena, who really was the impetus behind Red Ribbon Week as a
DEA agent and -- Susie? Susie brought it in. Susie Kurtz. And she's been kind of
carrying him around today for these proclamations. Thank you, Susie, for bringing the
bust here and -- and letting us celebrate with him. So, here is our proclamation:
Whereas substance abuse is particularly damaging to our most vulnerable in society,
our children, and a contributing factor in the three leading causes of death for
teenagers, accidents, homicides and suicides, and whereas the Red Ribbon Week
began after the death of drug enforcement administrative -- administration Special
Agent Enrique Kiki Camarena, who in 1985 was murdered by drug traffickers he was
investigating in Mexico and promotes family and individual responsibility for living
healthy, drug-free lifestyles without the illegal drugs or the illegal -- use of legal drugs.
And whereas it is the goal of the City of Meridian and the Meridian Anti-drug Coalition,
MADC, to involve families, schools, businesses, churches, law enforcement agencies
and service organizations in all aspects of Red Ribbon Week and establish an
atmosphere that supports awareness, education, and ongoing initiatives to prevent
illegal drug use and whereas business, government, parents, law enforcement, media,
medical institutions, religious institutions, schools, senior citizens, service organizations
and such will demonstrate their commitment to healthy drug free lifestyles by wearing
and displaying red ribbons during this week long campaign and whereas millions of
people celebrate Red Ribbon Week by wearing red ribbons or red or crimson scarves in
honor of Tiki's sacrifice, participating in community anti-drug events and pledging to live
drug free lives, therefore, I, Mayor Tammy de Weerd, do hereby proclaim October 21st -
- or 21st through the 31st as Red Ribbon Week in the City of Meridian and encourage
all citizens to support the efforts of MADC and participate in drug prevention education
activities, not only during Red Ribbon Week, but all year long, making a visible
statement that we are firmly committed to a drug free community. We are very fortunate
to have a very strong Meridian Anti-drug Coalition and it represents 12 different
stakeholder groups in our community that collaborate on how we can use prevention,
treatment, and law enforcement to combat the negative impacts that drug abuse and
use have in our community. I celebrate those efforts by the coalition. I thank you on
behalf of the City Council and our law enforcement agencies that you stand beside us,
you partner with us, and you're truly making a difference. So, thank you so much for
that.
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2018
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Tolan: Thank you, Mayor de Weerd, thank you City Council Members. Truly thank you
from the bottom of our hearts for helping West Ada with our drug prevention programs,
which are amazing, super strong, but thank you for your ongoing support. We really
appreciate it.
Item 7: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Approve Minutes of October 9, 2018 City Council Workshop
Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of October 16, 2018 City Council Regular
Meeting
C. Final Plat for Bainbridge Subdivision No. 9 (H-2018-0111) by
Brighton Investments, LLC, Located off the SW corner of N.
Ten
Mile Rd. and W. Lost Rapids Dr.
D. Findings of Fact, Conclusion of Law Amended for Denial for
Tanner Creek Subdivision (H-2018-0023) by Schultz
Development, Located at 505, 521, 615 and 675 W. Waltman
Ln.
E. Renewal Of Agreement For Fire Department Communication
Dispatch Services Between Ada County And The City Of
Meridian For Fiscal Year 2019 Not to Exceed $94,207.18
F. Lexipol Online Subscription Agreement
G. Memorandum of Agreement between City and Meridian
Development Corporation for contribution to 2019-2020
Meridian Main Street Market
H. Memorandum of Understanding and Agreement between Rural
Fire District and City of Meridian
I. Memorandum of Understanding between Light My Fire, Inc.
and
City of Meridian
J. First Amendment to Interagency Memorandum of
Understanding with City of Boise for the Community
Development Block Grant CDBG) Program
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2018
Page 6 of 67
K. Approval of Contract Amendment No.1 to Boise Softball
Umpires Association (BSUA) for FY19 Softball Umpire
Services for the Notto-Exceed amount of $52,500.00
L. Approval of Purchase Order #19-0079 to CDWG for FY19 PC
Replacements for the Not-To -Exceed amount of $76,604.50.
This
procurement is utilizing the current State Contract
M. Approval of Purchase for Cisco Switches for FY19 Network
Refresh from CompuNet, Inc. for the Not-to-Exceed amount of
104,754.17
N. AP Invoices for Payment 10/24/18 - $2,198,828.72
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 7 is our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There were no changes to the Consent Agenda as published, so I would move
that we approve the Consent Agenda. For the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, absent;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 8: Items Moved From The Consent Agenda [Action Item]
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Verado West (H-2018-0085) by DevCo
Development LLC , Located at 3090 N. Locust Grove Rd.
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October 23, 2018
Page 7 of 67
1. Request: Modification to the Existing Development
Agreement to include the subject property in the agreement;
and
2. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 19.44 acres of land with
an R-15 zoning district; and
3. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 132 building lots
and 18 common lots on 17.35 acres of land in an R-15
zoning district
De Weerd: So, we will move into our Action Items. Our first item is a public hearing for
H-2018-0085. Before I open this public hearing I will just talk about our process. It is
detailed in your agendas. We have -- staff provides the background information on the
application that is being held for public hearing. The applicant, then, will get up and
have an opportunity to present their application and answer any initial questions from
Council. At that point we will have the public testimony aspect. We have three minutes.
And the timer is on the screen at the podium, so you will be able to see the time that is
remaining. And, then, the applicant has the final presentation to answer any questions
that came up during public testimony or any questions from the City Council. City
Council will, then, have an opportunity to ask questions of staff, applicant, or any of
those that testify to get any further clarification. I would note that there is a public record
and Council has had that opportunity to look at any minutes from the Planning and
Zoning Commission, any written testimony and written comments from various
agencies. So, with that I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the first applications before you tonight
are a request for a development agreement modification, annexation and zoning, and a
preliminary plat. This site consists of 17.35 acres of land. It's zoned in the county
located at the southeast corner of North Locust Grove and East Ustick Road at 3019
North Locust Grove Road. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is
medium density residential, which is three to eight units per acre. The applicant is
proposing an amendment to the existing development agreement for Verado
Subdivision to include the subject property in the agreement. The first phases of
Verado exist to the east of this site as shown on the map there. Annexation and zoning
of 19.44 acres of land with an R-15 zoning district is requested. The proposed gross
density of the development is 7.4 units per acre, consistent with the density desired in
the medium density residential future land use map designation. The applicant is
requesting the R-15 district specifically for the three foot wide side yard setbacks. A
preliminary plat is proposed as shown consisting of 128 building lots, which has been
reduced from 132 with the original application, and 18 common area lots on 17.35 acres
of land in the proposed R-15 district. A r evised preliminary plat has been submitted as
shown since the Commission hearing that depicts four fewer lots than originally
proposed along the southern boundary of the subdivision. The subdivision is proposed
to develop in two phases, starting at the east end of the property. Minimum property
size of their proposed building lots is 3,081 square feet, with an average lot size of
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October 23, 2018
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3,573 square feet. Access to the development is proposed from the east through
Verado Subdivision and from the south through Chamberlain Estates Subdivision. No
access is proposed via Ustick or Locust Grove Roads. All streets within the
development are proposed to be public, although reduce street sections, 27 feet, are
proposed for Laughridge Avenue, Ringneck Street, Stormy Drive and Summerbrook
Avenue. Basically the loop road through the development here, which will only allow
parking on one side of these streets on the inner side of the loop. The UDC requires a
minimum of ten percent qualified open space and one site amenity to be provided. The
applicant has submitted a revised qualified open space exhibit that matches the
configuration of the revised plat. It does depict 11.2 percent qualified open space,
which is 1.94 acres of land. Qualified open space consists of internal common area and
micropath, some parkways, and half the street buffers along adjacent arterial streets. A
6,500 square foot small dog park with a seating area and a segment of the city's multi-
use pathway system is proposed adjacent to the South Slough at the southeast corner
of the development as amenities. Additionally, the applicant has committed at the
Commission hearing to provide a shade structure within the common area as well. A
mix of single family detached and attached homes are proposed within the
development. Single level homes, mostly attached, are proposed along the north and
west boundaries of the site adjacent to Ustick and Locust Grove Roads and along the
southern boundary adjacent to existing homes in Chamberlain Estates Subdivision.
Conceptual building elevations were submitted for future homes in this development as
shown. Building materials consistent of horizontal and vertical siding with stone and
brick veneer accents. What you're looking at here is updated renderings, elevations for
internal lots not adjacent to the street. These homes will not have eaves past the first
four feet from the front of the home and these are, like I said, the internal lots. These
homes here are elevations for lots that abut a street on the side, like on a corner lot.
The site elevation of the homes abutting the street will have eaves. All other elevations
will not have eaves past the first four feet from the front of the home. There will be
eaves on the rear of the structure. So, that's just referring to the sides of the structures.
So, just wanted to point that out. The original elevations submitted with the application
did show eaves all the way around. So, this is just a clarification of what's actually going
to be constructed. Staff does have a few concerns with this development and I will go
through those now. The number of narrow lots proposed has a significant impact on the
amount of on-street parking available for guests due to the close proximity of the
driveways and here is just some photos from the first phases of Verado. As you can
see here, because they are so garage dominated and -- and the driveways here, they
don't -- they just have a little tiny bit of landscaping in between most of the lots here.
ACHD's staff report is recommending that the city ensure adequate parking is provided
on site as on-street parking is restricted. There is no onsite, i.e., off-street parking
proposed above the minimum for each lot. Past experience has shown that limited on-
street parking has created problems with visitors parking in restricted areas that then
block travel lanes needed for emergency access and in adjacent neighborhoods.
Second, narrow lots limit the variation in housing types and limits the homes being
constructed on lots from having varied setbacks and building setbacks within the
development to articulate and break up the front wall planes of structures visible from
interior streets. All homes are constructed at the same setback with a garage
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October 23, 2018
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dominated design that diminishes community character. The applicant is requesting
that this development be combined with the previous phases to construct much of the
same housing types. Council should determine if more variation in lot size is needed in
this area to provide more housing diversity throughout the entire Verado development.
Third, while the proposed open space meets and is slightly above the minimum required
at 11.2 percent, it's not ideal as it's all located at the east end of the entrance to the
development, as you can see here from the space. At the Commission hearing the
Commission directed the applicant to revise the plat prior to the City Council meeting
tonight to relocate the internal common area further to the west within Blocks 4 or 5 and
eliminate two building lots, resulting in 11 percent open space and a through common
area to be more central and accessible to all residents. So, what that means is this
area right here where my pointer is at, shifting either to this block or this block here.
The applicant did revise the plat slightly to increase the common area to just over 11
percent as requested by adding parkways within the landscape strips at the ends of
blocks and that would be in these areas here, but did not relocate the common area or
eliminate lots as directed and requests Council approval of the open space as
proposed. The Commission did recommend approval with some changes at the
hearing and I will go through those in a bit. Summary of the Commission hearing. Jim
Conger, Conger Management Group, applicant's representative, testified in favor, as did
Will Dilmore, Michael Simpson, and Megan Izzo testified in opposition and Chris
Catherman and Paul -- Nielsen and Chuck Catherman commented on the application.
Conger Management Group, the applicant's representative, submitted written testimony
in favor of the development. Key issues of discussion are as follows: Concern
pertaining to the routing of the lateral through this site and possible flooding to
downstream users. Need for an access via Locust Grove Road or Ustick Road to help
disperse traffic. Concern that traffic volumes will be too high going through existing
neighborhoods. Not enough transition in lot sizes along the southern boundary of
development. Desire for single story homes to be constructed, instead of two story,
along the southern boundary of the development. And opinion that proposed density is
too high, no personality or uniqueness to the proposed homes. Eaves that don't go all
the way to the back. Homes too close together, i.e., the three foot side setbacks are too
narrow. Key issues of discussion by the Commission. First, the applicant's request to
pipe the South Slough that crosses the southeast corner of the site. Since the
Commission hearing a letter was received by the city from an NMID stating that the
South Slough was renamed to the Finch Lateral back in 1994 and as such it's not
considered to be a creek or a natural waterway that is required to be left open by the
UDC. Therefore, staff is recommending that the applicant be able to tile that facility.
The applicant's proposal for units to be owner occupied, not rental units. Which units
elevations will have eaves and which won't. Concept elevations all show eaves. No
elevations were submitted for those without eaves. That was with the original submittal.
Concern there isn't sufficient parking provided on the site specifically for guests.
Location of open space at the entry of the development, as opposed to further to the
west in a more central location within the development has recommended by staff. And
concern that an access via Ustick or Locust Grove Road is needed for the development,
so that traffic isn't being funneled through adjacent neighborhoods. ACHD is estimating
1,246 trips per day generated from this development. The Commission did make a
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October 23, 2018
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couple of changes to the staff recommendation. They modified Condition 1.1C --
excuse me -- 1.1.1C to require single level homes along the southern boundary of the
development, adjacent to homes in Chamberlain Estates. You can see those right here.
And, secondly, the applicant should modify the proposed development plan as
recommended by staff per condition number 1.1.6 prior to the City Council hearing.
Outstanding issues for Council tonight. First, staff deleted condition number 1.1.5,
which required the South Slough to be left open as a natural waterway in accord with
NMID's letter, as I went over just a bit ago, which states the waterway is actually the
Finch Lateral, which is allowed to be piped as requested by the applicant. Second, the
applicant requests Council approval to install the street buffer landscaping along Locust
Grove and Ustick Roads for phase two with the second phase of development, rather
than with the first phase as required in development agreement provision number 5.1E.
And, lastly, relocation of the internal common open space and reduction of two building
lots resulting in a through common area as recommended by the Commission or as
proposed by the applicant. So, Council does need to make a determination on that.
Written testimony has been received since the Commission hearing from the following:
Bill Cassinelli. He is against this development for the following reasons: Front yards
are almost entirely concrete. No eaves on homes. Design should include eaves all the
way around the houses. Either allow an access via Locust Grove or Ustick or reduce
density. Too much traffic on neighborhood streets. And all elevations are the same,
i.e., cookie cutter design. Chuck and Christine Catherman. They are in support of the
project and in favor of the plan to build single level homes adjacent to their property to
the south in Chamberlain Estates. Evan and Anna Lynn Frasure. They are in favor of
the development and Kimberly Porter in favor. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for staff?
Bernt: Madam Mayor? Sonya, what was the last thing we needed to deliberate on as a
Council? I didn't quite catch that.
Allen: It's on your hearing outline, Councilman Bernt. It's under outstanding issues for
Council, item three, relocation of internal common open space and reduction of two
building lots, resulting in a through common area as recommended by the Commission
or as proposed by the applicant.
Bernt: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from the Council at this point? Okay. Is the
applicant here? Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Will Dilmore. 1979 North Locust Grove,
Meridian. 83646. I have some assistance up here to do the PowerPoint.
De Weerd: Okay.
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October 23, 2018
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Dilmore: Thanks for allowing me to present Verado West. This is in addition to the
Verado community at Locust Grove near Ustick that you approved two years ago. I'm
the on-site sales representative for Blackrock Homes. We just heard an interesting
presentation of our housing project from staff. I'm here to present Verado from a
different perspective. Because this is a different and unique housing style, we are not
the typical Meridian subdivision of 8,000 square foot lots, 2,600 square foot homes,
three car garages for 425,000. Rather, we are a carefully planned out, well-designed,
affordable housing neighborhood that bridges the gap between four-plex rentals and
larger homes. We have two distinct housing product types that allows for a variety of
demographics inside Verado West. We have two story homes, as shown here in the
darker tan. We have single level homes, as shown in the lighter tan. Single level
homes, some are attached, while some stand alone. Here are actual examples of the
homes we built in the Solterra neighborhood behind Louie's Restaurant off at Fairview
Avenue just within the last three and a half years. These are actual photographs. All
these homes are under 1,900 square feet, with a price range of 240 to 290 thousand in
today's market. As I mentioned, I'm the on-site agent. New construction communities
are what I specialize in. I have been an on-site agent with this builder for 18 years, with
this actual product type for the last four years. Verado West will be our fourth
neighborhood with this product style. This is a result of listening to our home buyers
and hearing what they want and what they need. We have seen first hand the change
in the Meridian demographics over the last four years for our buyers. We are seeing an
ever increasing demand for quality built, nicely appointed, smaller affordable homes
with low maintenance. Due to this fact, we have developed a community-wide yard
maintenance program that is managed by the HOA. All yard maintenance is included in
the HOA dues, managed by the HOA. This ensures that all the yards look great all of
the time. Our owners love not having to do yard work or store yard equipment in the
garage. We do more than sell quality built homes at prices that ordinary people can
afford. We create livable communities for homeowners and their families. Meridian is
our home, too. We want to see the community grow in a way that keeps what we love
about Meridian intact for everyone. The builder was born in Meridian, raised in
Meridian, and graduated from Meridian High. Had his office in Meridian for 22 years.
My girls have been raised here in the valley. Both graduated from Rocky Mountain
High. Anyone that has visited our homes can easily see the care and craftsmanship
that we do put into them. What is less visible is the care and craftsmanship that we put
into the -- creating the actual communities. As just one example, the builder prefers to
sell to buyers who intend to occupy the homes as primary residents and not to
investors. We constantly have investors wanting to purchase our affordable homes for
rental properties. We prefer to sell to owner-occupied buyers, many of whom are first
time homebuyers who need extra help through the process. This focus is backed up by
our CC&Rs, which has some rental restrictions and does not allow for short term
rentals. This has had a really positive effect on our neighborhoods. At this time we
believe we actually have very little neighborhood opposition in Verado West. We have
worked with the adjacent neighbors to the south in Chamberlain Estates. We have
agreed to build single level homes along the south boundary line, as staff has noted, to
make for a more cohesive transition from neighborhood to neighborhood. This resulted
in us eliminating four lots. We agreed to this for two reasons. All their homes are single
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October 23, 2018
Page 12 of 67
level, which are -- and, more importantly, not only are their homes single level and ours
will back up being single level, but, more importantly, they are some of the most
pleasant, respectful neighbors that we have worked with in 20 years of development
and it's very refreshing for us in today's day and age and we appreciate that. We have
all the proper agency approvals resolved, other than a few staff opinions that differ from
ours and our buyers. We comply with all of the code requirements and have all the
preliminary approvals needed to bring this project to you tonight. This is nine months
worth of work. We have ACHD approval. Fire Department, Police Department, Public
Works, Planning Department, Irrigation District, the city's Comprehensive Plan, zoning
ordinance and Parks Department. As staff has mentioned, we have actually only two
issues left to resolve where staff's opinion and ours differ. Number one, as shown here
on the screen, staff made a recommendation to relocate our passive entry open space
to the west as shown here in red. This doesn't make any sense for us. This is not an
active park area. This is a passive open space providing for a visual focal point when
you enter into the neighborhood from the east. It is not intended, nor has it ever been
intended to be an active park area. This passive open space is no different than the
buffers along Ustick and Locust Grove. It is visual open space to be enjoyed by
everyone as they actually come into the neighborhood. Our simple request is that you
allow us to keep the entry open space where we have it shown on the plat. Number
two, staff has asked that we construct all the landscape buffers along Ustick and Locust
Grove in the first phase of development. Instead, we are simply asking for the
perimeter landscape to be done in phases -- in the two phases that we are doing.
Ustick and Locust Grove are already fully improved with sidewalk connections in place,
satisfying all safety concerns. We are simply asking and requesting that Council
remove this condition. In closing, Verado West by itself exceeds all the code
requirements for open space and amenities. We will be combining the HOA for Verado
West with the existing Verado neighborhood to give our homeowners access to all the
amenities. Our overall amenity package is quite extensive. Again, Verado West on its
own exceeds all the code requirements. Altogether, though, we will have over four
acres of open space, which is 12.24 percent as shown on the overhead screen. Total
landscape open space of over five acres. Two large park -- neighborhood park areas.
This will include fencing for child safety, play structures, climbing dome, swing sets,
basketball court, big wheel track, seating areas, active sports field, suitable for --
suitable for soccer or lacrosse. Shade structure. Dog park. Attractive plantings and
boulders. And, most importantly, will have created -- and we will continue to maintain
over 2,000 lineal feet of regional pathway system through the neighborhood. Madam
Mayor and Council Members, just one final thought. This housing style and
neighborhood may not fit your personal needs or your personal demographics, but it
may very likely meet the needs of someone in your family. Maybe your son or daughter
who just recently graduated or just got married is trying to stay in Meridian or your
brother or sister who just recently got divorced, trying desperately to stay within the
school district to give stability to their kids or your mom, recently widowed, having to
downsize, looking for something that's more affordable, low maintenance, easy to care
for, with nice amenities. I have personally worked with each of these demographics
over the last four years. As a community we are very proud of how well we have
integrated into the Meridian city with our neighborhood. Thank you for your time, for
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October 23, 2018
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allowing us to present Verado West to you tonight. Again, we have only two requests.
We request to leave the passive open space in the current location at the entry, so
everybody can enjoy it, Chamberlain homeowners, our homeowners, as they come into
the community and allow for the landscape buffers along Ustick and Locust Grove to be
constructed in two phases. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Can you maybe go back a slide? I would like to see kind of with your full
master plan where all these amenities that you're talking about fit within your entire
development. So, where are the parks, where are the pathways, where is the shelter,
where is the field.
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, on the overhead and following on
the cursor here, this will be our regional pathway system. In Verado -- in our existing
neighborhood this pathway has already been created and it will continue from east to
west. So, that would be the 2,000 lineal feet of pathway system. We had the current
park area within Verado. That park area has the play structure -- go back to -- the play
structure, the swing sets, the climbing dome. It also has the big wheel track, which we
put in concrete pathways throughout that area for the kids be able to ride their bikes or
scooters. It's fully fence within that area. And that is visible as soon as you come in off
of Ustick into the Verado neighborhood. Over to the west encircled here in red where
the cursor is, that's the new park area within Verado West. That's where the dog park is
going to end up being. By being able to now pipe the Finch Lateral ditch, we now have
more open space to be able to have practice areas, throwing areas, play areas.
Lacrosse practice or soccer practice and whatnot, because there is enough space over
there. We also have the passive open space. So, the passive open space is going to
have the benches and shade structure. So, that will be visible as you come into the
neighborhood. As staff also mentioned, we have all of the landscape buffers as seen at
the ends of each of the blocks, as well as along Ustick and Locust Grove and, then, we
also have any existing neighborhood as well. So, we have built berms all along Locust
Grove and -- or not Locust Grove yet. Ustick. And we will continue all the way down
Ustick, down Locust Grove with those berms as well. Fully landscaped.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Which part of this development -- and where are the sidewalks going to be
and where are they not going to be?
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October 23, 2018
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Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Kavanaugh, the sidewalks, in terms of just
normal sidewalks --
Cavener: Are they on both -- I was under the impression that they were on both sides of
the --
Dilmore: Yes . We will actually have sidewalks on both sides of the street, all the way
around. All of the interior lot blocks will all be sidewalk.
Cavener: Okay. Thank you.
Dilmore: And maybe something to keep in consideration here, when you're looking at
these blocks -- so, this center one right here, it's about 300 feet from street to street,
north to south. So, it's not like we are seven, eight hundred feet. It's actually only about
300 feet. So, in terms of walking distance within the neighborhood getting to the park
areas, it's actually all fairly close and easy to get to within a matter of a couple minutes.
De Weerd: What is the rear setback?
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, the rear setback -- I'm not an expert on this, but I believe it's
15 feet is the minimum, but I don't know that I ever have any -- it's whatever the R-15 is
-- it's whatever the R-15 standard would be.
De Weerd: Twelve feet.
Dilmore: Twelve feet. Sorry.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I have a couple questions. The reason for no eaves on those homes, is that just
purely a financial reason or is there --
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, we knew that this was going to be a
question. Eaves serve no functional purpose, other than purely cosmetic, just like stone
accents on the front of the homes. We put stone accents on the front of the homes, as
you can see here in these pictures -- so, again, actual photographs in the Solterra
neighborhood behind Louie's Restaurant. We put the stone accents on the front of the
homes for the same reason. No one wants to pay extra for the stone accents to wrap
around the homes, just like you don't want to pay extra to wrap eaves around the house.
Our homes are value engineered to put money where you can see it, notice, and
appreciate it. We do install the eaves on the front and backs of all of the homes. We
wrap them around the sides, as staff had mentioned, four feet around the sides as you
can see here in the photographs. I just don't ever have homeowners asking to add
eaves to the side of the homes and we have been doing this for four years. The photo
staff has shown in their original photographs on the side, we will own that, that was a
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October 23, 2018
Page 15 of 67
mistake. It was the end of a block. We had two story homes. Those were originally
designed to be able to have eaves on them. We missed it. We have since submitted
information to the staff that any homes abutting to a side street at the end of the blocks
will have eaves on those side streets and we just -- we appreciate staff for pointing that
out to us. That was a mistake over in Verado on that one block.
Milam: Madam Mayor. So, just, I guess, a follow up to clarify that, it is purely a financial
reason for not putting the eaves on; is that correct?
Dilmore: So, when you do an R-15 zoning for setbacks, it's not just the simple aspect of
putting it in normally, they are going to be expensive eaves, because they do have to
meet fire rated code. So, when we are looking at our expenses, yeah, it -- that is a
factor into it. When we are looking at trying to bring the best value to the market for
what our homebuyers are looking for, the cost to offset it would literally be -- as an
example taking the stone off the front of the homes or on the inside of the home, taking
the granite or the cords out of the kitchen and doing laminate. It's that expensive to be
able to do it.
Milam: Madam Mayor. So, there is not any protective thing that the eaves due to this --
to that side of the home? I always felt like my eaves were somewhat protecting my
home from weather, the sun, wind, trees.
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam -- again, I do on-site sales. I'm not the
expert here. All I know is over four years I have had hundreds of home inspections
done and I have never had it be an issue for the home inspections or for the buyers.
Milam: Madam Mayor, I have a different question. So, back to the -- I was -- along the
same line of Councilman Cavener, I was thinking about the residents that live at the far
end -- far west end. So, I'm estimating, based on what you said, it's about a half a mile
to the playground from the far end.
Dilmore: Madam Mayor and Council Member Milam, it's actually half that distance. It's
maybe at most a quarter mile. So, the entrance to -- from the intersection of Ustick and
Locust Grove to the actual entrance to Verado -- if we can go to a different overhead
screen. The overall one that shows all the amenities. That would be the best one. The
other way. So, from the intersection of Ustick and Locust Grove to the main entrance
here, that's actually four-tenths of a mile. So, to be within Verado West is actually --
roughly 700 to 800 feet to be able to get from the furthest home to the west to the west
edge of the park where the dog park would be or the other park area would be. And
these aren't 8,000 square foot home sites. The distance, as you can see here on the
south of one block, is maybe approximately 220, 230 feet from street to street. So, we
have sidewalks throughout the whole neighborhood and we are looking to kind of
encourage that. This layout is very similar to what we did over at Solterra. We had the
park -- the main park for Solterra at the entrance. We did not have a passive open
space or an active open space at the opposite end of that neighborhood. It's been there
for three and a half years and it is awesome.
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October 23, 2018
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Cavener: What's the name of the street that you enter in on the -- the current Volterra
development?
Dilmore: When you come in off -- sorry, Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, when
you come in off of Ustick that's actually Verado Way.
Cavener: Verado Way. Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions at this point? Thank you.
Dilmore: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Cl erk.
Coles: Yes , Madam Mayor. We have Chris Catherman would like to provide testimony.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Catherman: Hi. My name is Chris Catherman. I'm at 1838 East Kamay in Meridian.
83646.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Catherman: We moved in about three years ago and one of the reasons we bought our
house was because it had cows behind it. We moved from an acre property in Boise
over here and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. But we both knew that there would be some
buildings behind us and in working with Jim and Laren, they really just listened to our
concerns and we appreciate that -- and that the Council -- or that the Commission
approved the single story houses behind us. The whole subdivision as a whole is very
nice. It -- it represents -- I think it will help our neighborhood keep up the looks on it,
because this is such a nice neighborhood. It flows well. I think it's going to -- it's going
to be a good -- a good subdivision, so -- they have done a great job.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Catherman: Thank you.
Coles: Also Chuck Catherman would like to provide testimony.
De Weerd: Good evening.
C.Catherman: My name is Chuck Catherman. I live at 1838 East Kamay with Chris
and I have to agree with what she says that the neighborhood seems really nice. I like
their -- their open space park, because every single person coming into that
subdivision gets to see that on the way in. If that was moved off to the west half the
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October 23, 2018
Page 17 of 67
people wouldn't even get to see it as they went to their homes and -- and I agree with
my wife that Jim and his crew has just been really good. They have -- they have done
everything that we have -- we have wanted. So, I -- I support the subdivision.
De Weerd: Thank you for your testimony.
Coles: Paul Nielsen would like to provide testimony.
Nielsen: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Nielsen: Paul Nielsen. 1812 East Kamay Drive, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nielsen: I moved in my home 20 years ago and my property borders this new
development. My backyard borders it. So, for 20 years I have had a pasture there, kind
of got to like the cows and all that. But I realize Meridian is going to grow. So, if there is
bare dirt a house is going to go there. I'm in support of the development, since they
decided to put the single family -- or single level homes bordering our property. Initial
development I was dead set against with two story homes, because my opinion would
have been -- I look out my back windows and see a wall, but since they have decided to
put the single level homes bordering our property along Kamay Drive, I really don't have
any qualms about the development. Sure, I would like to see a pasture stay there
forever, but it's not going to happen in Meridian. As far as the parking concerns, on the
new development, in the evenings I will go on a walk and go out around Locust Grove,
Ustick, and back through their new development. I see more cars parked in our part of
the development in Chamberlain Estates on the side roads -- or the side of the road
than I do in the new development in Verado. So, I don't know why that is, but I don't
know that it would be a parking issue in the new development. Maybe it's because the
lots are smaller and people realize they have to park in their driveways instead of out on
the street like in our developer with larger lots. So, all in all, I'm -- I'm okay with the
development. I have nothing against it. They have been good to work with. They have
listened to your concerns and I'm okay with it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Paul.
Coles: And Andrew. No last name given, but Andrew wanted to provide testimony.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Newland: Yeah. My name is Andrew Newland and my address is 2166 East Ringneck
and that's in the Verado Subdivision there.
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October 23, 2018
Page 18 of 67
De Weerd: Thank you.
Newland: I just wanted to hit on a couple points there, kind of like Will said, the fact of
the matter is we need affordable housing for so many people out there. I'm also a
realtor and have sold multiple homes within that development as well. I have sold from
me being a first time homebuyer to, you know, friends of mine and, then, also to the
elderly population as well that are downsizing and it has worked out just incredibly well
for everyone that I have sold a home into in there. So, many of those people went to
this neighborhood specifically because of lack of inventory of resale maze of homes out
there. When you go look at a home that's priced around the same price as these and if
you were to go through them and look at them, you know, apple to apple, these homes
are far superior, in my opinion, as far as quality of finishes go and everything like that as
well. I have been extremely happy living in there and I'm proud of the neighborhood
and how well it's up kept and everything else about it. So, I'm in support of it.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: No one else indicated they wanted to provide testimony.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes -- okay. Yes,
sir. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Jeske: My name is Richard Jeske and I live at 1886 North Chandra Avenue, Meridian.
83646. I have lived at this address with my wife for the last almost two years. Moving
from Anchorage, Alaska, to Idaho has been an adventure and an absolute -- Meridian
is just a beautiful, beautiful city. A real quick comment. I'm in favor of the Verado West
Subdivision. The things that I have appreciated about Blackrock and Tahoe Homes has
been a small house, smaller yard, yet with green space. Comfortable floor plan with
modern finishes. Appropriate planning and layout between single story and two story
homes within the subdivision. Low maintenance. Ease in parking within the two car
garage with storage. Walkability. Attractive mature landscaping. Some consideration
for aging in place. Lever door handles. Low threshold step-in shower. Rocker light
switches. Mixed age play and sports pace -- space with benches. We had looked at
many different properties in September of 2016 and found Solterra to be one of the
most attractive new homes -- affordable homes with small lots, small yards. I don't need
to own a lawn mower anymore, nor do I need a snowblower, hopefully. Thank you for
the opportunity.
De Weerd: Thank you. Good evening.
Abbott: Hi. I'm Brian Abbott. I live in Chamberlain Estates at 1855 East Chimere Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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October 23, 2018
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Abbott: And we bought a Tahoe home in 1997. My concern is traffic flow. I guess -- I
see right now if I want to go south or east from my subdivision I have to make a right
turn there at Cougar Creek to go east onto Ustick. If I want to go south it's already
pretty tough. You got two crosswalks right there. You have got a school bus stop. You
have got the three lanes. It does back up a bit. I'm thinking if you increase the traffic
flow by this number of residents in cars, which you are already concerned about the
parking, that it's going to make that left turn slow. So, what people will do is -- I guess
probably try and make another dangerous left on Ustick to go left again at Locust Grove
to go to Fred Meyer or cut through Chateau Meadows and come out at the light on -- on
Locust Grove or to go through all the way down to Louie's and come out on North
Hickory Way onto Fairview. My question for the developer is why didn't you push for an
egress onto Locust Grove further up. There may be an ACHD question of that, because
you have that turn lane onto Ustick from Locust Grove going right there, but certainly
with children and a school bus stop right there at Locust Grove by East Cougar Creek,
rush hour traffic there is getting a little bit -- you know, you're backing all the way up to
Fred Meyer now. I guess my concern would be why not put another egress onto Ustick
or further up towards Ustick onto Locust Grove rather than coming through Chamberlain
Estates. But I know traffic is evolving in Meridian and we -- we are creative in how we
get in and out, too, without lights. But I just -- that's -- that's going to be a lot of traffic
flow through our subdivision, especially on Cougar Creek, so just wanted to put that on
record.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. --
Palmer: Palmer. I'm new.
De Weerd: The bearded guy.
Palmer: I have got a question for you, Brian, if you don't mind. Having lived -- you
know, living right around there do you anticipate when Locust Grove eventually widens
that that would relieve a lot of your concern?
Abbott: Is it going to four lane?
Palmer: I imagine it will probably go to five, given that that's where the -- how the
intersections --
Abbott: I guess ideally it would be nice to see a light halfway between Locust Grove
and Eagle that would feed Summerfield and -- the question to me would -- that I would
have is like there is -- it seems like ACHD could still like come in off of Locust Grove into
the pasture there and why didn't a street go there I guess I would be the developer. But,
then, again, you still got to -- an ever harder left turn there. I guess I don't have an
answer. I'm just surprised that this would be approved with really no egress to go south,
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October 23, 2018
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they just have to go through their own subdivision and it makes it difficult to turn. You
could put a no left turn and make them go all the way down to Eagle, which would force
them through Packard Estates. I guess -- I would like to suggest that whatever that
pathway is -- it's like fire truck access at the northwest corner, just one lot down, that
that would be made a street.
Palmer: Thanks.
Abbott: But it is an aging community, so there are fewer and fewer kids. The second
point, if I may, would be -- I see that you know, there is this big plan for a bike path and
you do have to -- the community pathway that's just going to sort of end there and it's
kind of nice to have an uncovered canal, because, you know, you have the wildlife and
that. If you cover it over and have a pathway -- I'm not sure if I -- does the city plan to
finally push the bike path all the way down --
De Weerd: Can you stand in front of the mic.
Abbott: Is it the city's plan in their master plan to push the bike path through -- that
currently will truncate right there at the park in the southeast corner, is that bike path
going to go all the way through -- along the kind of to -- let's say to Meridian Road or --
De Weerd: That is a great question that will ask the developer.
Abbott: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you. Ma'am. Yes.
Barrett: Good evening. My name is Paula Barrett and I live at 4076 East Goldstone
Drive in Meridian. 83642. Happy to say that I'm a proud Blackrock home owner. It will
be three weeks tomorrow. So, I am still in the throes of finding boxes, emptying boxes,
but I'm bound and determined to park my car in the garage before the first snowfall. I
am in support of Verado West. Just a little backstory. I had a custom home built in
Meridian Greens and due to a divorce in 2015 we had a short sale and there is this
funny rule that you cannot apply for a loan within three years. So, I had to rent for three
years. I love Meridian. I have a private practice just a couple blocks down, so my
heart's in Meridian and I found two homes to rent, one in Tuscany Village for one year.
The owner decided to put her home up for sale, so I had to move. And the second
home was in Tuscany. That owner was -- took a two year assignment. He worked from
Micron and he was in Taiwan. So, I was blessed to stay put for two years. But
traversing Eagle Road and also my -- my sister and her husband had a Blackrock home
out in Harris Ranch. I could not afford to live in Harris Ranch myself and going down
Eagle Road -- at one point I saw Tahoe, you know, affordable homes. I thought, you
know, my eyes deceived me, because it was, again, listed for mid 200,000. So, I pulled
off and went and that's the first time I met Will and since that time I pledged to myself
that I would at some point get a Blackrock home and lo and behold -- I mean it took
three years, but I'm finally in my -- my new home. I agree with what's been said with the
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October 23, 2018
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low maintenance, the xeriscape. I prefer to spend my time doing something other than
mowing a lawn and I got to donate the lawn mower and the weed eater, so that -- that is
fine by me. With a custom home, you know, I thought, well, if I don't have a choice with
my interior package what is it going to be. But I was pleasantly surprised and, to be
quite honest, I wouldn't change a thing. I have stainless steel. I have granite. I have,
you know, nice big baseboards and -- and crown molding. I -- I really couldn't be
happier. And in terms of neighborhood, we are still all moving in together and I'm
waiting for all of us in a row to -- to be in our homes before I try and put together a -- you
know, a get together, but -- oh, I'm out of time. I love my home and I couldn't -- I
couldn't be happier. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. And welcome to your new home. Anyone further have
testimony they would like to provide? Would the applicant like to have any final
remarks?
Dilmore: Madam Mayor and Council Members --
De Weerd: If you would, please, state your name for the record.
Dilmore: Will Dilmore. 1979 North Locust Grove, Meridian. 83646.
De Weerd: Thank you, Will.
Dilmore: Get our PowerPoint up and running here. Just addressing a couple of issues
that we heard. Parking. We heard about parking. We have a slide here that we want to
show you and I will read this while we are doing that. As I mentioned before, we are not
the typical housing lifestyle with three car garages, 8,000 square foot lots. However, we
still provide four parking spaces for every home. Two in the garage, two in the
driveway. In my four years being on site, four different communities with this product
type, this is seldom ever an issue. All that being said, as we can see here on the
overhead screen, we have ample on-street parking as shown here. So, everywhere
that is marked in red within Verado West is additional on-street parking. So, again, the
homes on the south side, those are single levels. All the darker tan are two story
homes. The end caps are all landscaped. So, the sidewalks are detached.
Landscaping. Trees . All of that is additional parking over and above the requirements
within the city codes. The other item -- we heard about the pathway. I don't know the
actual city's regional pathway plans overall. I understand it's pretty extensive. All I
know is that as a development between Verado and Verado West, we will have built
2,000 lineal feet for the city and will continue to maintain that and that will -- that will go
adjoining here in our park area from Chamberlain west community on that edge, all the
way to the east, all the way through Verado, which is already -- already there and
continuing on to the -- to the east. That being said, we really appreciate the opportunity
to present Verado West to you tonight. We look forward to your approval of our overall
project with the following modifications: Number one, all we are asking is that here on
the overhead, regarding the relocating of the interior open space, we are just asking that
this recommendation be deleted for reasons I had mentioned earlier. This is a passive
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October 23, 2018
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open space. It's for everyone to enjoy as they come into the neighborhood. It is not an
active common -- or an active park area. Item number two here, constructing all the
arterial landscape buffers along Ustick and Locust Grove in the first phase. We are,
again, just simply asking to delete this recommendation. If the landscaping berms along
Ustick and Locust Grove are required in the first phase -- so, if we have to do this in the
first phase -- they are extensive berms. We will need to bring in roughly 200 truckloads
of dirt through the city streets across the city to be able to build those burns if we do it
all in the first phase. If we are allowed to do it in two phases we will build the first -- in
the first phase will build all the berming along Locust Grove that is on the east side of
Locust Grove. Sorry. Ustick. Sorry. Ustick on the east side of Ustick we will build all of
that in the first phase. In the second phase all of the road construction that we are
doing within the second phase, all of that dirt, instead of being hauled off of site, we can
keep that and we can build the berms there. So, it keeps us from having to bring in 200
truckloads of dirt, roughly, through the city and, then, actually hauling that out, because
we already have the berms built. So, if we can do it just in the two phases, we will end
up being able to just use the improvements from the second phase to build those
berms. Again, the biggest concern for us as a neighborhood, for you as a city, is the
improvements of Ustick and Locust Grove. Those sidewalks are already in place.
Everything in safety concerns is all satisfied. All those sidewalks all along Ustick and,
then, south on Locust Grove are already in place. So, we are just asking just simply to
delete that recommendation and allow us to just do it in two phases. It's not four, it's not
five phases, it not a long term time frame, it's just two phases. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: A question for staff. In the -- in those occasions where we have done street
buffer in phases -- in this example would it be a condition that -- that has the remainder
of the street buffer along Locust Grove and Ustick done, you know, with the first building
permit in phase two, for example, or what's the -- the ultimate trigger that would require
its installation?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, and Councilmen, it could just be done with
the second phase.
Borton: So, it could -- Madam Mayor?
Allen: Once the final plat records.
Borton: It could be done at the end of the second phase. That's not a concern?
Allen: No. Excuse me. Let's back up. Prior to signature on the final plat it either needs
to be constructed or they need to submit surety for the cost of that construction.
Meridian City Council
October 23, 2018
Page 23 of 67
Borton: Okay. And, Madam Mayor, if there was a condition of approval that matched
what they are asking for, that would be included in what you're describing?
Allen: If you wish to change it that way, yes, staff can change it. Right now it's with the
first phase.
Borton: Thanks.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: How long until you reach the second phase after you start building -- starting
construction?
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member -- Mr. Bernt, if we were to look at the current
Verado West -- or, I'm sorry, Verado Subdivision, the first phase, our very first home was
sold and occupied in January of this year. We have the entire second phase completely
built already within less than 12 months and we are ready to -- for our approval and start
putting in foundations in the second phase. So, if Verado West in the current market
conditions are anything similar as Vera do immediately adjacent to it, that potentially is
less than 12 months.
Bernt: Madam Mayor. This may be a question for staff or a follow-up question for the
applicant. I'm trying to picture in my mind. Is there -- is there a sidewalk along Ustick of
this proposed -- I know that there is on Locust Grove, but it wraps around down to
Ustick. There is sidewalk there.
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bernt, on the other side --
Bernt: On your side --
Dilmore: Yes.
Bernt: Of this development.
Dilmore: It is there.
Bernt: Okay.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, you're a realtor -- not just for this, are you --
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October 23, 2018
Page 24 of 67
Dilmore: Correct.
Milam: Do you know the median price for -- per square foot for a new home in
Meridian?
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, I have been doing this for 25 years.
The -- from my understanding with household income -- I will start there. Based off of
Chamber of Commerce's information, average household is roughly around 63,000 per
household in Meridian. If we were to look at the price per square foot for new
construction, similar to what we are doing, we are somewhere around 150 to 160 dollars
a square foot, all in, everything finished, landscaped, fenced, house, the lot -- everything
for our two story homes. Our single level attached homes are going to be close to 180,
185 dollars a square foot. If you were to take an example, as in Paramount or
Bainbridge, you're going to be also running somewhere probably -- for those 2,600
square foot homes, you're looking at 180 dollars a square foot or more. We are seeing
now on a regular basis 200 dollars per square foot for homes throughout -- new
construction throughout the community. We are doing everything we can to be able to
keep our homes affordable. Our overall price range in Verado, Verado West is planned,
is somewhere in the 240,000 to 290,000. It is very difficult to even get that low.
Existing homes 20, 25, 30 years old -- go and look for a 1,500, 1,600 square foot
home here in Meridian, 240, 250 thousand for a 25 year old home. Two car garage.
Everything has to be updated. Remodeled. Twenty year old furnace. Very , very
difficult. And so that's why we are working so hard to be able to have affordable
housing that for us -- and the feedback that we have from our homebuyers over the last
few years, to be able to do the low maintenance yards, the landscaping maintained by
the HOA, maintain the integrity of the community -- I mean that's been really, really well
received and this is our fourth neighborhood of doing it.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Talk to me about -- one of the concerns that the staff had was the variation in the
homes. It seems like looking at it I realized that the east there is -- obviously you have a
subdivision there and you're doing the same subdivision here in the west, but my
concern is the variation of -- of the home. All of them have the same setbacks. They
are identical and -- you know. And I have a concern with how -- just the look and the
feel of the subdivision. Is there a way to fix that, so it's -- it's more inviting, give it a little
bit more -- maybe -- maybe it's the eaves that we are talking about. I'm not sure. But
it's -- it just seems -- it seems cookie cutter.
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bernt, we pulled up another picture here.
This, again, is within the Solterra neighborhood and I know we referred back to Solterra,
just because it's now three, three and a half years into its maturity. You can easily find
pictures within all neighborhoods that are not attractive. Overall, with the maturity of the
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October 23, 2018
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trees, with the landscaping the way we're doing, we have -- doing the shrubs and the
trees in between the driveways, we are looking at height and vertical elevation and color
to break everything up as we are doing that. You can see here on the lower picture the
single level attached with the grass and landscape and how there is multiple elevations.
We have five different floor plans. We have three different elevations on each one. We
have -- I don't even know how many color packages that we have. The elevation
changes -- change from hip roofs to gable roofs and give different variations with it as
well. The single levels we do the same thing. Hip roofs. Gable roofs. Break up.
Different stone. Different heights. And so not just a wainscot, but, then, a full height
stone on the garages or three quarter height on the garages, breaking all this up. It is a
true balancing act to be able to create something that is low maintenance, easy to
maintain, really -- really nice. The finishes in these homes, as you heard some of the
homeowners speak to, are really nice and that's our standard level of finishes. Stone
countertops. Custom cabinets. Stainless steel appliances. Hand textured fixtures. In
order to be able to do that and to see and hold the value for where the homeowners and
homebuyers appreciate, being able to have low maintenance and the elevations the
way we do, put the money into the eaves in the front and the back, rather than on the
side. Those are where the values are for our homebuyers. We continue to ask our
homebuyers what's important to them and that's -- this is where we are at and we really
think there is plenty of variation within the neighborhoods. As you can see here, this is
an actual picture that we took. This isn't even three weeks ago.
Bernt: Madam Mayor? Just -- maybe just a comment. I remember my first home that I
bought. It didn't have granite countertops. It didn't have quartz anywhere. I could go
on and on and on about the amenities that -- that -- that these so-called affordable
homes have. To me when you're talking about affordable homes that 175 dollars a
square foot, it's crazy and -- and my -- this is -- this is just me thinking out loud. I might -
- this is a comment. It's not a question. But I guess I'm wondering if there is ways in
which we can just spice this up a little bit, have it look more less dense and, you know,
attract first time homebuyers that may or may not be concerned with granite countertops
and quartz countertops and engineered hardwood floors throughout, you know, updated
carpet. I know I certainly didn't have that when I bought my first house.
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bernt, I definitely appreciate the comments. I
really do. When we are looking at getting feedback from buyers we don't look at it from
a price per square foot, we look at it as what is the sale price for these homes and,
again, 240 to 290 thousand, as crazy as it sounds here in the City of Meridian, that is
first time homebuyer. I have multiple first time homebuyers that are purchasing -- they
are out of college, they are in the workforce and they are purchasing at this price range.
We have demographics that isn't just the first time homebuyer. We have demographics
that is the single professional, recently graduated, and I can picture him in my head right
now in Verado. I have every one of these. I have a divorced mom who moved over
from across the street on Ustick with a teenage daughter who is trying everything they
can be able to stay within the school district. They had the granite. They wanted to get
-- if we don't do stone countertops, we will not sell homes, even if the price is reduced --
I mean we can't even reduce it enough to be able to sell that home. Our competition
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October 23, 2018
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does that. We need to do that. Again, we go back to value engineering. We are not
doing plush, you know, 35, 50 dollar per square yard carpet. It's good carpet. Baytown
pad. The cabinets, they are custom built, but they are not the auto pulls, they are not
the auto close. We put it in the hinges. We put in the construction. The appliances,
you know, they are really nice stainless steel appliances, but they are not Bosch. They
are not 5,000 dollars for the appliance package. It is all within reason. We are looking
at every single dollar item. Again, going back to demographics, same neighborhood. I
have got the parents that relocated here from Texas that are in their 80s to be closer to
family that are in our single level attached. I have a retired empty nester couple that just
bought one of our two story homes that came here from Sun Valley and you think they
came here from Sun Valley, they got a lot of money when they sold their home. No.
They are on a budget, just like the rest of us. So, I appreciate the comments and I
definitely appreciate, you know, looking to be able to provide as much differential and
integrity as we can within the homes. We really do feel that we have done that and,
again, this is not an unusual picture. The picture that staff has up is in Verado. The
landscaping is literally one season, but it's the same landscape package that we have
that you see here in Solterra with three years under its belt.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And you have said it twice, so I apologize. What did you say the -- the starting
price these homes in here are going to be?
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Palmer, the starting price right now is right
around 240,000. We are doing our best for the single level homes that are going to be
backing up to Ustick in our second phase of Verado to be right around 239,900. That is
where we are shooting to be on our price and we are trying to keep those as best
values we can.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I appreciate the extensive testimony about the internal components. You're
clearly passionate about what you do and the product that you sell. So, appreciate the
added detail. Staff and Planning and Zoning both voiced some significant concerns
about the lot width and I think that's probably what speaks to their desire to relocate this
passive park towards to where it's more accessible to many of the customers that you
anticipate moving into your homes. You have expressed a desire to keep it where it is,
so -- so, help us get to a win for everybody where your residents that move in get
access to open space without having to walk all the way through the neighborhood. You
get an attractive amenity that will make your product more desirable to a customer
base. How do we get to a place that everybody wins?
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Dilmore: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, when looking at the overall plat,
again, I -- looking at trying to be able to have a feel of a neighborhood when you have
an entry open space, a passive open space when you come into your neighborhood, we
find the feedback from our home buyers is critical on that. I know in the neighborhood I
currently live in it's 20 years old here in the Meridian area, we have those open spaces
when you come into the entrance and it's really, really appreciated. So, from that
standpoint, that's why we really want to keep that passive open space where it is. If this
was a half a mile distance from one into the next on this community, this is right about,
in our experience again, the same size as our Solterra neighborhood, almost to the
acre, almost to the unit size, distance from east to west, and we had located that park
area at the entrance for everybody to enjoy coming in. Never once have we had any
feedback from a homeowner that is saying we don't want to walk 500 feet, we don't
want to walk a minute to be able to get to the park area. We have done extensive
parkway strips at each end of the block, so, again, those are separated sidewalks with
the trees and the distance from north to south that, again, is only about 300 feet. We
find that congregating open space, being able to keep it short distances in walking, we
have all the sidewalks in place, being able to encourage -- encourage people to be able
to gather all up in this area here, that's the information we get from our homeowners in
terms of what they are looking for. If we were, again, a half a mile distance, I would
totally understand putting that distance in there, but we are talking roughly 700 feet from
east to west.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener, just hold on for a sec. Are these buildable lots? Would you be
able to build there or are you designing a park there because there is something with
the South Slough that is preventing that?
Dilmore: Madam Mayor, that is a great question, and, no, they are actually buildable
lots. That is actually what staff had recommended that we do is to build two homes
there, rather than the passive park space. When -- when you drive into the
neighborhood you will see just the homes in front of you, rather than green space, a
shade structure, a bench. You will literally just see a couple of driveways with the
landscape in between and the homes. But, yes, those are definitely buildable lots.
De Weerd: No. The one on the south.
Dilmore: So -- sorry. On the south side that is not buildable area on the south side.
That is where the Finch Lateral is. It where the Finch Lateral ditch is.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay.
Dilmore: We would be looking to -- that staff has already agreed to allow us to do that.
So, no, those are not buildable lots down in that area.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Cavener. Sorry.
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October 23, 2018
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Cavener: Madam Mayor, you asked one of my questions, so I appreciate that and I
guess just -- just a comment. I appreciate the testimony, but, you know, when you first
look at this and you kind of read your narrative, you start to think, oh, this is a great, you
know, age restricted community, but that's not what we are hearing from you. You're
saying, no, this is for first time homebuyers and people who want their kids to be able to
stay in the West Ada, but the product doesn't have yards, front yards. Your two story
product doesn't have front yards and what you're saying is that the logical solution is to
build a passive open space for kids to be able to access that's on the far end of your
development and -- you don't need to respond, but I just think that it's a -- it's a
challenge for us, because I appreciate what you hear, but we as a City Council hear
from our citizens, the desire and demand for accessible open space and you have got a
very beautiful amenity that your customers will see where they are coming to look at it,
but it is so far away from all the -- the residents to be able to access and I think there is
a -- there is a solution that's there. I wanted to give you an opportunity if you felt there
was one. If not, that's okay, but I think that you really need to take a hard look about
where you're using this open space, so that your residents can actually appreciate and
enjoy it.
De Weerd: Are there any other questions from Council? Any final comment?
Dilmore: No, ma'am. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Staff, anything further? Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we close the public hearing on Item H-2018-0085.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, I sent C.Jay a link, so that it could be including in the record, because I
looked something up. I know Zillow isn't science, but I just was curious to just try and
get a snapshot of what might be available out there in Meridian and so I just put in max
price 250,000, tell me what there is in Meridian, and it came up with 34 results. A p retty
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October 23, 2018
Page 29 of 67
big chunk of those were homes that were either up for auction or they were just bare
land, different issues. So, it looks like there was about 20 houses available in Meridian
with a max price of 250,000. The newest one out of those was built in 2001. So, yeah,
it's not the starter home that even I first had three years ago. I mean I sold that thing for
nearly 200 grand and it was built in '84 and needed a lot of work. So, I mean things
have changed a lot in a hurry. So, to be able to have a brand new house for 240,000, in
reality is kind of impressive that that's even possible. One of, you know, my biggest
complaints in my neighborhood -- I live in a Corey Barton neighborhood with ample
street parking. Unfortunately, nobody bothers to use their garage with all their
Christmas and Halloween decorations, instead, stored in there, because there is all
kinds of places to park on the street, where there is balls constantly coming out into the
street, kids running in the street, and I have to creep through my subdivision, because I
can't even see the sidewalk there is so many cars on the road. So, I love that this is
what's being presented to us and I pray that we have more developers bring driveways
closer together or skinnier streets where parking is only on one side or no sides if
possible, to force people to have to use their own space more wisely, park in the
garage, park in the driveway, get them off the street. The open space positioning, I -- I
wish in -- in, you know, my neighborhood that we walked -- drove into that one, instead
of you drive into people's driveways. I think that's kind of a clever use of space, which is
-- they have done in the other part of their subdivision. So, to me the two issues here
aren't issues for me. I think that they are advantages. We have a city park across
Ustick, given, but in pretty close proximity to this neighborhood. Hopefully, there -- we
do have a future pathway that connects through the rest of that canal area. I think it's
wise thinking to go ahead and put that in now, rather than us try to have to work with the
HOA later to build one, but I love what's being presented and I hope that we pass it. So,
with that I move that we do approve H-2018-0085, including the -- to keep the phased
approach to the landscaping plan, given that the sidewalk, especially, is already in place
and to accept the position of the open space as the applicant has presented it.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
Borton: Second for discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion from Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: In addition to -- to what's part of the motion, I think it would -- it makes sense
and maybe it's implied in the motion that that 1.1.5, the deletion of the tiling of the Finch
Lateral -- or, excuse me, for it to be left open, is removed, can be tiled. That was one of
the outstanding issues. So 1.1.5 would be deleted.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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October 23, 2018
Page 30 of 67
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Yeah. I had that originally written down to mention, but, then, I saw staff
deleted is what was on the report, so ignored it. But, yeah, that was my intention.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I don't -- I think this is some of the diversity of housing product that -- that the
community needs. I think the applicant's done a good job in presenting -- presenting
this new product in this space. I think it fits. A couple of things that -- that I would ask to
add and would hope would become part of it. One, I think eaves all the way around the
house are important. I think Genesis hit a point that maybe they -- they throw water
away from the house. They solve problems down the road for homeowners. And
always had it, quite frankly, in almost every situation. So, I think it's just got to be part of
the elevation to be modified or the approval will be modified to require that around each
and every home and the other addition, which perhaps would go into the development
agreement, that the applicant said, which I thought was an important part of this
development's success, is that the CC&Rs -- recorded CC&Rs be provided that reflect
the HOA will be responsible for all the landscaping and maintenance. There is probably
-- there is not a condition of approval that has that, but it could probably be created and
included in the DA to require that. The applicant suggested it and I think it -- in light of
these lot sizes and the front yard and parking issues, that was a good solution by the
applicant and let's memorialize it in a condition as well. So, with those I guess three
additions to the motion I would be supportive of it.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I -- I agree with Mr. Borton. Just -- just one thought. And I don't know if there is
any creativity that we can talk about in regard to those -- the passive open space as you
drive into the subdivision. As a homeowner I -- I don't know if I would want, you know,
at nighttime having someone drive in the neighborhood and having, you know, bright
lights shine on my two lots. You know, I get that that's not the ideal spot for passive -- or
nonpassive open space. I have been trying to think of different ways that we could --
other than taking out lots, create some more open space on the westerly portion of the
subdivision, but I guess I'm not opposed to where this passive open space is, just -- just
for the look of it, but also I think that, you know, I don't know if I would want, you know,
headlights pointed at my house in the nighttime while people are moving into the
subdivision. So, it somewhat makes -- that somewhat makes sense to me.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments? Mr. Palmer, I would ask you if you agree to
add those suggestions from Mr. Borton to your motion.
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October 23, 2018
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Palmer: I'm -- if I could trade my eaves for a granite countertop I would in a second.
But I want to let my motions as it is. If you want to withdraw your second --
Borton: No.
Palmer: But -- but the other -- I mean with the exception of the other two. I mean
leaving the eaves out, but your comments and the -- and the staff deletion of the
condition. Absolutely.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. B orton?
Borton: Yes . Madam Mayor,. The inclusion of the eaves isn't just quite -- isn't for the
sake of it. They serve a function and do protect the homeowner and the homeowner's
property. It takes water away from the side of the house of a wastewater intrusion. I
have seen those claims happen a number of times. They happen well after a house is
sold and they are -- they are unsolvable at that point, because you're not going to redo
your roof line and add eaves. It's one of the reasons why we see them all the way
around a house in 99 percent of the homes and elevations that we have seen come
before us. So, it seemed clearly to be appropriate in this case and probably in all other
cases, at least in my perspective, that it's an appropriate condition to include. It's not
just a cost issue I don't believe.
De Weerd: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And maybe, Sonya, why don't we have eaves as a building code requirement?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman, I -- I have no idea. I'm not a -- I'm not building code
-- I do know that eaves help keep moisture and water away from the siding, the
windows, and the foundation.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I imagine there is lots of things that -- that you could do to improve the safety in
any which way of your home. All those things come at a cost. To me there is a reason
that the city doesn't require them in code, that what they are presenting is acceptable to
code, and I'm willing to -- to trust that the code handles the situation, as opposed to
spending, you know, somebody else's money.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any further comment?
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October 23, 2018
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Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I agree about the eaves. I would not build a house without eases and I -- and I
appreciate affordable housing. That is definitely something we need. My guess is by
the time these are actually built they are going to be 300 to 340 thousand dollars, so I
don't know what's affordable anymore. My first house was 40,000 dollars. That tells
how old I am. Anyway, I'm still having a problem with the open space, not being so --
not having any open space, with no yards whatsoever. We have children way over here
and they have to walk -- it started out 300 feet in between each block and, then, it got to
240 and, then, it got to 700 feet total. So, I don't know what the number really is, but it's
too far and so I -- Planning and Zoning asked them to move it and they did it and I
understand why they want -- the aesthetics of that there, but I don't know if there is a
solution of making it a little bit smaller and, then, taking out two lots somewhere else, I
just -- it's too far. There was nothing considering that these homes have zero lot -- zero
yards and you're going to have children playing there. And they play in the street. I am
just not comfortable with that.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I know we have got a motion and a second and I just -- a couple other
comments before we vote. I tend to agree with Council Member Borton, Council
Member Bernt, Council Member Milam. I think that's what speaks to our Council. We
have got some reservations, but we all are trying to work through them with the
developer to try and get to the yes for all of them. I think there is some very easy
solutions that can -- can come to get this product to be a yes for me. My concerns
about the eaves. My concern about the -- the aesthetics. I tend to agree and very
much so with staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission about the open space.
Again, I think these are all things that we can easily solve, but as they are not included
in this motion before us I will not be supportive of it.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Cl erk, with you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, nay; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, absent;
Bernt, nay.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion failed.
MOTION FAILED: TWO AYES. THREE NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
Bernt: Do we have a new motion?
De Weerd: Yes , please.
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October 23, 2018
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Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Since we were close, there was one addition that -- that I thought was
appropriate with the eaves. So, I would make a motion to approve H-2018-0023 to
include the eaves around each property and all of the -- well, I will just cite them. The
street buffer as proposed by the applicant. The open space remains where located.
1.1.5 is deleted. And that the CC&Rs -- recorded CC&Rs are provided that reflects the
HOA responsible for all landscape maintenance for each of the parcels.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. We have heard comment. Any
further comment? Mr. Cl erk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, absent;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
Allen: Madam Mayor, may I clarify the motion, please? Council Borton, four sided
eaves?
Borton: Yes.
Allen: Do you have a minimum width of those eaves? From what I understand from
building code, they can extend one foot into the setback area with a three foot setback
with fire rated eaves. Just -- you probably should specify. If it's one foot you're looking
for or less.
Borton: Madam Mayor. I don't know if I could.
Allen: You may end up with three inch eaves.
Borton: No less than a foot, if that's helpful.
Allen: Yes . Minimum one foot eaves?
Borton: Yes .
Allen: Okay. And I believe I heard you say relocation of the open space --
Borton: Is not required.
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October 23, 2018
Page 34 of 67
Allen: Is not required.
Borton: Correct.
Allen: Thank you. Okay.
Borton: Correct. And, Madam Mayor, to the -- if I could. The -- the street buffer -- when
I -- I had questioned during the open meeting about the -- kind of a modified condition of
approval that would reflect how the applicant's request would be placed as a -- as a
condition to allow the street buffer to be installed.
De Weerd: Was that regarding the berm --
Borton: The berm.
De Weerd: -- on Locust Grove in the first phase --
Borton: Correct.
De Weerd: -- phase and the second phase have the berm?
Borton: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Correct. And I think -- there wasn't a condition of approval that described how
that would happen with the approval of the final plat and it would be a modified condition
that captures that.
Allen: Yes . So, you would like to -- so, that I repeat it so that I'm understanding
correctly, the -- the berm along -- while the landscape buffer along Ustick and Locust
Grove for the second phase of development would be constructed with the second
phase of development prior to recordation of the plat --
Borton: Correct.
Allen: -- or submittal of surety.
Borton: Correct.
Allen: Yeah . And did the Council wish to include a requirement for a sidewalk to be
constructed in the areas where it's not existing today on that second phase?
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October 23, 2018
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De Weerd: I thought the testimony was that sidewalk is all in. I'm not positive if it's on
that -- I think we are missing some, but I don't remember -- I don't recall which phase it
was in. Just one sec.
Borton: We didn't speak to it, because I think --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Borton: Yeah.
Palmer: So, I was sitting at that intersection yesterday watching a guy ride a four
wheeler on the sidewalk all the way around, so, I --
Allen: Excuse me.
Borton: Good?
Allen: I think we are good. Thank you.
Borton: All right. Thanks, Sonya.
De Weerd: Okay. And that clarity that has been added, everyone that voted in favor
agrees?
Borton: Yes .
De Weerd: Nod your head. Mr. Bernt?
Bernt: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. I just wanted to make sure.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Could I just make a comment to the applicant?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Milam: I really do like the subdivision. I mean it's approved anyway, but kids need --
they need a place to run. I'm also -- I'm very impressed how many neighbors you got to
come and -- and support this, because generally people don't want to take their time
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October 23, 2018
Page 36 of 67
and spend their night with us unless they have something to complain about or
something that they don't want to happen. So, good -- good job.
B. Public Hearing Continued from October 2, 2018 for Owyhee
High School (H-2018-0075) by West Ada School District,
Located at 7020 W. Ustick Rd.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 108.76 Acres of Land
with an R -8 Zoning District; and
2. Request: Conditional Use Permit for an education institution
(high school) in an R -8 zoning, lighted fields and an outdoor
speaker system within and adjoining a residential district, the
generation of vehicular trips per day in excess of 1,500,
proposed access to a collector street and there is not a safe,
separate pedestrian and bikeway access between the
neighborhood and the school site
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Our next item, Item 9-B, is a public hearing continued
from October 2nd on H-2018-0075. This public hearing was open. It had been
continued. I will open this asking for staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm not sure what's going on
with my first slide there, but I will show you an aerial of the -- of the property here. This
project is back before you again with a request for annexation and zoning and a
conditional use permit. The site consists of 109 acres of land, approximately, zoned
RUT in Ada county and is located west of North McDermott Road on the north side of
West Ustick at 7020 West Ustick Road. The Comprehensive Plan designation is
medium density residential and the school site is designated on the future land use map
for this area. This project was heard by the City Council on October 2nd and continued
to tonight's meeting in order to consider approval of the project the applicant directed
staff to prepare a recommendation for development agreement provisions and
conditions of approval for the conditional use permit. Because staff and subsequently
the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended denial of the project there were no
conditions of approval included in the staff report. Staff is recommending -- the staff
recommendation, along with the revised conceptual development plan submitted by the
applicant depicting a plan for the southern portion of the school property and the
Spriggel property, both anticipated to develop in the future with residential uses, are
shown here -- right here. Actually, that's the old one. Oh, I messed up and did not
include the new one in here. I will get that for you. Written testimony has been received
from Jeff Bower, Givens Pursley, the applicant's representative, in agreement with the
recommended conditions of approval. Give me just a second here. All right. This is the
revised concept plan that was submitted. Written testimony was also received from
Geoffrey Wardle, Spink Butler, representing Woodside Avenue Investors property. They
do object to the provision of a stub street only to the Flowers property. If you can see
here, the applicant is proposing a local street stubbing right down here to the Flowers
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property. This is the Woodside property right here. They would like to -- the street to be
realigned slightly to the north of the existing NMID facility and stub to the Woodside
property. They are also requesting the school district grant an easement for extension
of a sewer distribution line to the properties to the east and the corridor south of the
stadium and north of the main baseball diamond. Scope of easement to be determined.
And, then, third, written testimony has been received from David Ferdinand on behalf of
the Baum family offering provision of land for a fire station and EMS facility to assist the
school district in the need for closer emergency response in exchange for the ability to
have sewer and water available to their property or subsequent annexation and
development. Their property is currently in Canyon county and is outside of the city's
area of city impact boundary. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Okay. The applicant representative. Good
evening.
G.Allen: Good evening. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name
is Gary Allen. My work address is 601 West Bannock in Boise. I'm with the Givens
Pursley law firm. Very pleased to be here this evening in support of the staff's
recommendations for Owyhee High School. Had a great collaboration with the staff,
with the police and fire, and with Public Works to come to what we think is a good
resolution of the issues and concerns that you have -- you raised when we were here
before you. I think most of the conditions are self explanatory, but I would like to talk
about a couple that were of, you know, most concern last time. The first of those is the
north-south connector road and so if you look at the staff's condition of approval you
would ask sort of like, okay, what are the contingencies on this. Let's make sure we
have got all of those covered. I think everybody agrees that a north-south connection
here on McMillan is the best way to go forward. That's the first priority in the staff's
conditional approval. That property owner has applied for annexation, so that one is --
you know, that -- that's in your hands at this point. Now, we understand that you're not
obligated to approve that annexation, so that there was a need for a Plan B. So, Plan B
is this connection over here on the east around the Spriggel parcel to create a
connection to McDermott and we have -- I wanted to show you this, because we have
only got three options for how we get through the Spriggel parcel. Either through
Spriggel directly, through the Trilogy parcel to the north or through -- to the -- Acclima
parcel to the south and so there is -- that -- those together are Plan B. The -- the
condition of approval also calls or, you know, other potential options. We have thought
about those as well and those are outlined in the yellow and purple here. So, there is
actually an interest from this property owner in purple in putting that road in upon
annexation and you have got two other options over here to the west to Star Road. So,
that's as far as we can think through the contingencies. I think that's -- you know, we
are quite confident that one of those is going to come through for us and that there will
be two road accesses at the time that the school opens and that's what the condition
requires. Let me talk a little bit about the Woodside parcel as the second issue, unless -
- did you have a question or -- okay. So, we have been working very hard to try to
come to agreement with the Woodside developer. The school district -- and could you
put up the site plan -- the new site plan? And do we have one that's bigger than that
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that shows the south end? Maybe a couple pages down or blow it up or something.
Okay. So, there are a few things to note about the -- what we are doing here. The first
thing is that -- as the staff mentioned, the school district is now going to complete a local
road over to the edge of the Flowers parcel and that -- the reason for that was to
provide an -- an access to the parking lot that is off of the collector road. So, we agree
there is a benefit to the district to do that. We agreed to take the road over to the
property line and we also think that this alignment of the road here, wherever it goes, is
-- is the proper alignment starting over here on the west. The one important thing to
note is that the Spriggel parcel doesn't end where the proposed connection is, it actually
continues to the north to the center line of the canal. So, the point of that is simply that
there is no way to take this road over to the Woodside property without going through
the Flowers property and that is an unknown at this point how that would be
accomplished. We do not have that setup now. So, the developer would like us to take
this road all the way across to his property and the school district has offered to do so
on the same alignment that we have here and what the school district has offered to do
is to take the road straight ahead over to the edge of the Flowers parcel and, then,
provide an easement along the rest of its property in that same alignment that would go
over to the Woodside parcel. The school district would pay for the part that's up to the
Flowers parcel. The developer would either build the road himself through the rest of
the parcel or the school district would pay for it and be reimbursed. That was
unacceptable for the -- to the developer for reasons that he will explain to you I'm sure.
But we felt like that was as far as the school district could and should go in terms of
providing that access over there and nobody can guarantee without the assistance of a
road agency that we can build that road today because of the intervention of the
Flowers parcel. We would not be -- very strongly object to jogging the road to the north
in order to miss the Flowers parcel, because that would severely interfere with some of
the ball fields over here and require some significant redesign. So, here is what we ask
of you on that one is we -- we -- the school district commits to continue to work with the
developer to resolve this. We are really very close to having a resolution. We think that
the condition that you have provided is consistent with our coming to a deal and building
the rest of that road if we can. So, our -- our request would be that you approve that
condition -- the condition on Woodside that's in the staff report and I think the rest of the
conditions in the staff report are -- are self explanatory and -- self explanatory and my
understanding is that they have satisfied all the needs of your staff. So, we would
simply ask for an approval with those conditions. If you have any questions I would be
happy to take them.
De Weerd: Thank you, Gary. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I do have one, Gary. I apologize, I got lost a little bit in the explanation on this
road. I think it's Condition 1.1.8. Let me see if I'm even looking at the right one to start.
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G.Allen: That's correct.
Borton: Okay. And you were making reference to stubbing at the Flowers parcel, but,
then, providing an easement --
G.Allen: Correct.
Borton: -- across your parcel -- I guess jogging a little to the north or would it just go
straight across?
G.Allen: Go straight across.
Borton: So, it would intersect that southern ball field somewhat, wouldn't it?
G.Allen: We think we can work with that.
Borton: Okay.
G.Allen: That needs to be reoriented, but it isn't a significant design change.
Borton: Okay. So, the idea would be -- at least the last proposal was construct it to the
Flowers parcel and, then, easement for the remainder across the school district property
until it reaches the --
G.Allen: Right.
Borton: -- eastern boundary?
G.Allen: Yes. And, then, we also offered to build it and be reimbursed for the portion
that is to the east of Flowers.
Borton: Okay. So, that's not reflected in 1.1.8, but --
G.Allen: That's correct.
Borton: -- that's something the district would be willing to do.
G.Allen: That's something we would commit to continue to working with the developer
to figure that out. We think that the condition is appropriate for the approval of the
school --
Borton: Okay.
G.Allen: -- and that we can work and -- as a private agreement to get to the rest of the
way, as -- as well as sewer. Sewer is not required by our conditions of approval or by
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your -- your policies and yet, you know, if we can work all of this out sewer will be
included and -- or at least an easement for sewer at the developer's cost.
Borton: Madam Mayor. As to the issue -- as to the issue of the sewer, is that resolved?
G.Allen: According to this -- this -- the Woodside parcel, according to your master plan,
is supposed to be served by sewer from McDermott and Ustick. The -- the staff has
said that this -- it is permissive for the school district to provide sewer from another trunk
line from their trunk line over to this other parcel and we are willing to do that. We don't
want to make -- that would be against your policy to make it mandatory.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Other questions?
Borton: Not right now.
De Weerd: Yeah. We don't have any further questions. Justin, I do have a question for
ACHD.
Lucas: Madam Mayor, for the record my name is Justin Lucas. I represent the Ada
County Highway District. Business address is 3775 Adams Street, Garden City, Idaho.
De Weerd: Just the question about the -- the road that's being requested. I believe I
have seen it two different ways where a development stubs it and, then, the other
developer continues the road through their project or pays to go through a project to get
it to their piece of property or the development puts in half the road and what -- what is
typical?
Lucas: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, each situation is unique and some --
some extensions are very simple where the road is brought directly to the property line
and carried forward by the adjacent property owner. Sometimes the ACHD commission
chooses not to make that a requirement for whatever reason. Maybe it's a -- there is
some sort of geographic issue associated with the property or some other constraint. In
this specific situation the ACHD commission heard all of these issues at a -- at a public
hearing and the final decision is -- is what is located in the staff report and so that is
what -- what is applicable here is what our commission decided on this specific
application. So, I don't know if that helps you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council,
but --
De Weerd: I think that was a really good political answer.
Lucas: Thank -- thank you.
De Weerd: So, for the public record why don't you tell us what that is, otherwise I will go
and find it in the staff report.
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Lucas: Yeah . I would ask staff to bring up -- I hate to put words in my commission's
mouth and I will never do it, so if -- if the ACHD conditions of approval are available I
would request that those be brought up for your review. I don't want to try and craft a
condition off the top of my head and I know that they are available in the staff report and
we did provide a final copy of our staff report to the city well before this application was
heard.
De Weerd: Okay. Yeah. Just it says to stub it to the Flowers property. So, that was the
-- the decision of ACHD commission.
Lucas: Correct, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. For signups this evening first as Jim Hunter would
like to address the Council.
Hunter: Good evening --
De Weerd: Good evening.
Hunter: -- Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. Also Geoffrey Wardle signed
up. He represents us. I would like him to talk first, it will be more efficient and, then,
give me a couple minutes to close. That's it. So, I would like to reverse the order if
that's okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Sure.
Hunter: Okay. All right.
Wardle: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Good evening.
Wardle: -- Council Members, my name is Geoffrey Wardle. My business address is
251 East Front Street. I appreciate -- in Boise. I -- but I am a resident of Paramount.
So, it's nice to do City Council in your own town, because you can go home earlier.
Sonya, can you pull up -- can you pull up our PowerPoint. Oh. Okay. There is a lot that
has transpired since we sent you a letter on Friday and I appreciate the efforts of the
West Ada School District. I appreciate the efforts of their counsel, because both Mr.
Freeman and Mr. Allen and myself and our clients have met and had multiple
discussions. As -- as Mr. Allen discussed, there is a lot of progress that's been made,
but we are still not quite there and what I wanted to show you briefly was -- you know,
this was the alignment that had been proposed and the reason it was problematic for us
was -- that they were showing it coming across the Flowers property to the location here
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and where we don't necessarily know what the elevation of Ustick is going to be coming
off that ramp, because, remember, that the interchange is projected to be to the west of
McDermott. That is fundamentally our issue and concern. So, in further discussions
with the West Ada School District, they propose that, yes, we could take access and
bring it across the north. So, there are three unknowns that are keeping us from telling
you tonight that, yeah, we have a solution. We had proposed earlier today to the West
Ada School District that Woodside would -- can pay the cost of construction of the
entirety of the road from its termination here across to Woodside's property in that
northern configuration. We are ready to do that. The concern that we have is that,
obviously, with Public Works bidding and Public Works projects, if the West Ada School
District constructs it there is a significant likelihood of higher expense than what could
be done if Boise Hunter Homes, Woodside Avenue Investors, were to do it itself and I
think that's the solution we proposed with the school district for the sewer, grant us the
easement, we will construct it. The one issue -- the one issue that remains is there is
this Nampa-Meridian irrigation facility and they are proposing to title it up to this point
right here and as we have talked about the alignment, the second unknown is we do not
necessarily know what Nampa-Meridian would respond to this, because this came up
very late that they were amenable to taking it to the north side. And the third is that you
see there the blue portion is the Flowers have not been engaged by either party about
what the resolution is here, because as you come across straight there is going to be a
portion there. Now, we -- we don't anticipate that it's going to be a problem, but until we
know -- we don't know what we don't know. So, the -- the three things we don't know,
which are keeping us from telling you, yes, we are in total agreement with their proposal
to grant an easement to extend this right of way at some point in the future across here,
is that, one, we don't know what Nampa-Meridian's requirements are going to be. Two,
we don't know what Flowers response is going to be. And, third, nobody really knows
the cost of what this extension would be. So, what we had asked the West Ada School
District this afternoon -- again, we have had ongoing conversations and discussions -- is
if the West Ada School District will just commit to extending this road over the Nampa-
Meridian facility, we will build it --
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle, you are summarizing.
Wardle: I am summarizing.
De Weerd: Okay.
Wardle: That's -- that's -- that's what we had asked. That's what we had proposed to
them is extend the road to the Nampa-Meridian facility, cross that, and, then, we will --
we will pay the cost to extend the road there on the north side. We are close, but we
are not yet fully in agreement, but I do appreciate the effort that's been put in to date to
try to resolve this issue and that's our requested condition. That and sewer.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: It -- it sounded like that's a little bit what Gary said of -- from your action I take it
I might have heard it wrong, but it sounded like maybe the middle ground would be just
that, the district builds it to the Nampa-Meridian joinder there or crossing, quite frankly,
and either construct the whole thing and get reimbursed or provide an easement that
allows you to construct it and pay for it, which sounds like that's what you were
describing.
Wardle: So, the -- the nuance here, Madam Mayor and Commissioner Borton, is the
West Ada School District's proposed constructing it just to that blue point there and not
crossing the Nampa-Meridian facility and our response is since they are tiling it to this
dark area right here, if they would just extend that we will construct the whole thing.
Just get us to the north side and we will -- we will pay to construct that at our expense at
-- at some point in the future. We will coordinate with them.
Borton: Madam Mayor. To that point is it your preference that it -- the easement option
be the one that goes forward, rather than they construct it and you reimburse?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Borton, that's one of the conversations we have
had with them, because nobody knows -- we know, essentially, what it costs to build a
local street --
Borton: Sure.
Wardle: -- based upon our experience, but the West Ada School District, being a public
entity and having to bid this as a public works project, they don't necessarily have
confirmation as to what their cost is and so we are reticent to commit to reimburse them
where we don't necessarily have control over what that cost may be and so that's why
our proffer was, look, you provide us the right of way that can be grant -- dedicated in
the future and we will build it at our expense, just like we proposed with the sewer
easement.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, question through you to Mr. Borton. What is the difference
between a right of way and an easement?
Borton: I think in -- in this context I think it's just -- it's interchangeable. We are just --
they are going to provide the location where the future street would be located that you
would construct at least --
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bernt, you know, as we have had this
conversation with the West Ada School District, I think Commissioner Borton is
absolutely in agreement, I mean that's what we envision, because that is going to be a
public street, so it's going to need to be dedicated and that's -- that's -- whether we call it
an easement for now that's going to be dedicated or a right of way that's going to be
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dedicated -- we get there the same place if they just commit that it can be dedicated in
the future once constructed to ACHD local street standards.
De Weerd: And, Mr. Nary, do you agree with all that? I just thought I would throw
another attorney in there. Maybe Mr. Allen after that. I don't know.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no, I -- I do agree. I think it's -- I think
what he's talking about we can make that work with -- with our code, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Wardle: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: A real quick follow up then. To narrow the issue is it now focused on the
Nampa-Meridian crossing is -- is where there is some disconnect in who would pay for it
and provide that?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, yeah, I really think that's where it is.
Now, the West Ada School District has conditioned sewer upon our acceptance of this,
so I think we are all in agreement with sewer and so the sole issue has been, you know,
where does the crossing happen and -- and who -- who gets -- who gets it across. I
think we are all in agreement that once -- once the Nampa-Meridian facility is tiled we
will construct from there to the Woodside boundary within the -- the -- the local street
section right of way that they provide. But, yeah, it's -- I think that's -- that's fair, Council
Member Borton, is it's -- it's getting across that and that's an engineering question and
it's a cost question that nobody has the answer to yet, just because it's -- it's been very
fluid in the last 96 hours. And we appreciate the fluidity. I mean I think everybody has
diligently tried to resolve this issue.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Wardle: All right. Thank you.
Hunter: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Jim Hunter. 1132 East
Laguna Shore Lane, Eagle, Idaho. Anyway, just -- I will just kind of -- be kind of quick,
but a couple things that weren't said here today was -- one is all we really want is
access to our property. If this was us building it we have always been required to
extend it completely to the other guy's property. The school district wanted to short
change it into here. We actually said, fine, okay? I offered them a hundred thousand
dollars to pay for the extension north of the blue area, but I don't want to have to go
condemn Flowers property. I have no power to do that. So, I'm still landlocked. I
simply want them to cross the canal and I will build the road the rest of the way. That's
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our proposal to them, which they rejected. After rejecting my first hundred thousand
dollar offer to them. And, by the way, when they asked them what it does cost to -- to --
to -- to tile the canal or build a road, their engineer said he had no idea. I said but
reimburse us whatever it costs. I said I haven't -- I can't do business with reimbursing
somebody that has no idea what it costs. So, here is my hundred grand. My estimate
is that that road costs 60,000, excluding the crossing, and the crossing has a cost
associated with it. So, our current ask to them is, please, just extend the -- the red road
to the north of the canal and give us an unencumbered easement and we will build it the
rest. Pure and simple. Two asks. Cross the canal. Let us build it. Give us an
easement. So, I would respectfully ask that that be modified into the conditions of
approval and we are all in agreement. I stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hunter: That's my request.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, is the hundred thousand dollars still part of that deal?
Hunter: No. They rejected that. So, I said I will build it, just cross the canal for me and
I will build it, whatever it costs, across this link. I just need an unencumbered easement
to get to our property.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, do you know the objection to building over that? Is it because of the cost to
go over the canal?
Hunter: I'm not exactly sure what their objections are, but they are tiling it this entire
way, they are putting a parking lot over it, they are dealing with the Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation District on that issue and we would just like them to get across the canal with
the road and give us an easement and let us build it to our property. That's it in a
nutshell. Okay?
De Weerd: I'm sure the issue is time. I mean they are going to say we will get you an
easement and they have to work with Flowers and the irrigation district. We all know
that that's not necessarily an easy process. That's why you're asking them to do that;
right?
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Hunter: Yeah . They are working on this and, you know, I mean I -- I have dealt with
these irrigation districts. It takes a while. My point is I'm not asking them to do that
tomorrow, I'm just saying you're going to be working on this over the course of the next
year, you know, if you guys can do that we will build the road and that's our request.
You know, quite frankly, the gentleman said this affects their ball fields. Well, if you look
at it, they are getting into the real estate -- residential real estate development business
to the south. They could have placed a ball field down there or two, but they chose this
land plan totally excluding any access to our property. The other thing that was very
interesting is -- I know the gentleman was here from ACHD. The traffic study that was
done and submitted to ACHD did not even mention -- had not one scintilla of mentioning
the extension of Idaho 16. It totally ignored the fact there is a big freeway coming
through and it's going to landlock a couple of properties. Maybe we should think about
that in our traffic study. Not a single person looked at it. So, anyway, that's -- that's our
request, ma'am -- Madam Mayor and Members of the Council, is just get us across the
canal and give us an unencumbered easement and let us build the road on our
property. It's too simple. Thanks. So, thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Paula Gray signed up to testify. I don't see Paula. Madam Mayor, that was all
those that indicated they wanted to provide testimony.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to provide
testimony? Okay. Mr. Allen.
G.Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Gary Allen. 601 West Bannock in
Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you.
G.Allen: There are a lot of things I want to say about the -- Mr. Hunter's testimony, but
I'm going to get to brass tacks and talk about -- just about the key issue here and that is,
you know, it's not just about the cost of crossing the -- the irrigation canal, the real
problem is the Flowers property is in the way and so we can't have a condition on our
school that requires us to make a deal with Flowers. You know, someday maybe ACHD
needs to condemn that property or if the Flowers won't give it up voluntarily -- they
should. I mean it gives them access to their -- their parcel, but we can't control that and
that's too important of a thing to have, you know, standing in the way of a certificate of
occupancy of the school. So, we think that drawing the line at the Flowers parcel is the
proper place. If they are concerned about negotiating with the Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation District, we are willing to build that portion of the -- of the road, if -- assuming
we can get approval, but we think they should pay for it. We are already paying for two-
thirds of this road across. We have come more than -- more than halfway that way.
They want us to go about 80 percent of the way and, you know, that -- we just felt like
that was the right place to draw that line. The condition that you have got allows -- you
know, gives us the flexibility if we need to -- to do our part and not get tied up in -- in
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some other problem there. So, again, we -- we will recommit to trying to work out a
deal, but we think the staff's condition is the right one. So, that's what we would ask you
to approve tonight.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Gary, is the -- was the idea that didn't come to a solution that this road would
jog north? It wouldn't need to touch the Flowers' property, but it would jog northeast,
cross at somebody's expense, and then -- whether it goes straight across or perhaps
follow it down to the southeast along the northern portion -- there is not an exhibit where
somebody's shown us that, but it sounds like that was what's described as a close
solution, but you guys didn't get there.
G.Allen: Yeah. Well --
Borton: Is that right?
G.Allen: I had not heard anyone speaking good things about realigning the road. I think
everybody agrees the road should go straight across.
Borton: Madam Mayor. So, the Flowers' property in every scenario was always
included as having to have been a willing participant?
G.Allen: Pardon?
Borton: The Flowers' property had to be a willing participant under any scenario.
G.Allen: In any scenario I have seen, yes.
Borton: Okay. Yeah. The jogging north across it, staying on school district property,
was not one of the scenarios?
G.Allen: That was not one of the scenarios.
Borton: Okay.
G.Allen: Yes .
De Weerd: Mr. Allen, I don't see any -- anything -- I know you have emergency busing
as a provision, but any further discussion with ACHD on a safe route to school route?
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G.Allen: Madam Mayor, I don't believe we -- we have had additional discussions with
ACHD. That is a possibility, of course, if the levy passes. You know, to develop a plan
with them. But we have not had any further discussions on that.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: You know, this -- this question mark of how access will be given to Mr. Hunter
and his property I believe is important before -- if I were a -- if I were a land owner and if
I had property that I owned in that location, having this body approve this application
without knowing how that's going to be affected or how that's going to be remedied, I
would -- I would be -- I would be -- I just think it would be a lot cleaner if you guys could
come to a decision and figure out how, you know, Mr. Hunter can have access, you
know, to his property. It just -- it just would be cleaner, without having question marks
and we are going to deal with this in a year or we are going to deal with this -- with this
in a couple years. Is there a possibility that this can be arranged sooner than later?
G.Allen: We are, you know, about this close today, so I think there is a possibility. Like I
say, we are committed to continuing that conversation. You know, none of us control
what Flowers -- except the high district could --
Bernt: Madam Mayor --
G.Allen: -- and that's important to contract --
Bernt: It sounds like you can go north, though. Would you be -- would you be okay with
going north, meeting them at that area, so that they -- they can build their own road
going to that -- that specific area that we are -- that -- I don't know -- where ever -- just a
little bit -- a little bit north of where you're -- you're wanting to stub the road in right now.
G.Allen: My understanding is that if the road jogs north, even if it cuts back south, that's
still going to affect facilities. Am I correct? Yeah. So, we have to redesign the site and
could lose facilities if we have to do that and, you know, that's not -- you know,
ultimately here is -- you know, here is what's going to happen is someday ITD is going
to come in there and they are going to say, okay, now we need to -- we are cutting off
access to this property, we have to create an alternate plan. You know, the ACHD
report does talk about that and ITD does have a plan to create a north-south road along
the edge of the -- of the Woodside parcel. Now, it's nice -- it would be -- it is a good
thing to have a second access over to the north-south collector that we are talking
about, but at that point ITD is going to be obligated to mitigate that problem with access.
If Flowers is not cooperating, they can condemn the property at that point. So, you
know, it will certainly be -- that issue will certainly be resolved. The rest of this is about
who pays for a culvert over the road. You know, if it's important to you, put a condition
that says one way or another. We think the fair way to cut that is to do it at the Flowers
parcel.
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Bernt: Okay.
G.Allen: So, you know, you have the ability to put in a condition that resolves this. I
would say we would much rather you not talk about realigning the road as part of that
and not force us to make a deal with Flowers that we -- would affect the opening of the
school.
De Weerd: Other questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There was -- pivoting a little bit back to the sewer. There was a proposed
condition of approval in Geoff's letter of October 19th with regards to an easement for
the extension of the sewer distribution, et cetera. I didn't see it within the list of
conditions and maybe I missed it.
G.Allen: Right. And so the -- as I mentioned earlier, the -- your policy would not require
the school district to provide sewer to this property. It's an optional thing on our point.
As part of an overall resolution of the road issue, we are willing to offer the sewer
easement for them to construct the sewer at their cost. That was one of the outstanding
issues in our negotiation. It would be contrary to city policy to make that mandatory at
this point.
Borton: Got you. Okay. It was both or neither; is that a fair summary? Both or neither?
G.Allen: I don't -- I mean we want to have a deal, okay, at the end of the day.
Borton: Okay. Sure.
G.Allen: Both.
Borton: Okay.
G.Allen: Let's just say both.
Radek: Madam Mayor? Councilman Borton, Madam Mayor, I just want to make a
clarification on that. Thanks for -- thanks for bringing that up. Thanks for bringing that,
Councilman Borton, and thanks for clarifying, because you mentioned it earlier and I
talked to the city engineer on the phone, because I -- I didn't know if you quite got that
right, but it was his intent that we wanted to have access from your property to these
other properties for sewer, but building the sewer was not going to be a requirement,
but the city engineer did want to make sure the easements were accessible to that --
that property just as you said. So, I didn't see -- I didn't see that condition in the -- in the
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staff report either, but I just checked on that with the city engineer and wanted to make
sure that was -- that was taken care of.
G.Allen: That is a little different from what he told us last week, at least as we heard it.
But, nonetheless, you know, we want there to be both at the end of the day.
Borton: Okay. Fair enough. Thank you.
G.Allen: Thank you. All right.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
Borton: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Another question for police and fire with regards to -- it was highlighted -- this
map gets to the issue. It's condition 1.1.11. Maybe we can pull that up. It talks about
the secondary access and initially at the last meeting there was discussion of going
north or going east is the two options. The condition as written has those two options,
but it has -- it includes -- or other means not listed, which I believe opens the door for
going west or south and in light of the concern that necessitates a second access, is the
west and south viable and okay to include or should it be limited to, hopefully, the
primary considerations that Gary referenced going north or east?
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, I will answer first and, then, Lieutenant
Colaianni can chime in. Certainly from fire our primary preference would be to go north.
The reason for that is that going to McMillan allows us access over to Highway 16 and
this is an unusual area for our fire department. As you know, we cover the district
properties, as well as the city, through a mutual aid -- or an MOU at the district. We
cover Highway 16 all the way down to the river and so this -- this area here that we are
planning for a future fire station is not only going to cover the proposed high school and
the school, the development that's going on, as well as the Oak Subdivision, but also is
going to help us get north between Chinden Boulevard and Highway 44. When
Highway 16 was built, if you have driven that highway, there is a median all the way
down the middle of it and so we had to develop a mutual aid agreement with Star Fire
District where we cover everything north, they cover everything south. It's the only way
to access car wrecks on that -- on that state highway. So, our first preference, to
answer your question, would be a northern secondary access to McMillan. Going to
Star Road, going west is a possibility, but -- but to be direct and answer your question,
our preference would be to go to the north.
Colaianni: So, I'm not -- I don't know if I can add much more to that. We had discussed
those options and in our meetings we have discussed the applicant looking at other
options, as long as we have a secondary public access into that location before a CO is
issued. From a police perspective that made us happy and that satisfied our need. The
-- the road that goes out to Star is certainly a longer stretch, you know, for them as well
in terms of land and building it. I think that's more expensive and, you know, we have to
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loop around, but it still met the needs and what we were looking for. We are looking for
a secondary access. We felt the McMillan one was good, but if they wanted to come up
with other options and as long as it was there for us, we were happy with that.
Borton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Lieutenant Colaianni, is there -- I -- I know I'm beating this drum of -- of
pedestrian safety. Is there any concern from the police department on safety for kids
and bikes and walkers out in that area? That's not walkers pushing a walker --
pedestrians.
Colaianni: There was discussion and I -- I don't -- I can't comment to it about busing,
because there was challenges there that we see all across the city if there is not
sidewalks, if there is inadequate infrastructure that allows someone to walk to school,
there is a program in place and they could comment to it that driven by the state statute,
I believe, that -- that requires them to bus and so they have committed that they would
be following that and be busing a great majority of the kids there that don't have
vehicles, but as a high school level most of these kids drive, so they would -- they would
have to comment on what they have done there if that's not accurate.
G.Allen: The school district's busing committee has met and has adopted a busing
policy for the school that's in place today.
De Weerd: I -- I have been walking at the elementary schools and I have been asking
them who rides the bus. They don't ride buses. I mean -- I don't know why no one is
concerned about this other than me, but I -- I think we are setting up an accident ready
to happen, because those kids, if they don't have a car, if they can't find someone to
drive them -- they are not going to take the bus. I have had four teenagers. They did
not take the bus. I hope you work with ACHD and you get a plan.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I remember reading I think in one of the materials about the -- the busing
plan. I can appreciate the Mayor's concern. I think that I would be more concerned if
this was a middle school or an elementary school, though you drive past any middle
school or elementary school these days you see kids aren't riding the bus, it's mom or
dad that seems to be taking them to school, but if you could share with us a little bit
about what the -- the busing policy is related to this area, just so that we are all aware.
G.Allen: So, I would like to -- Joe, would you be the one to address that?
De Weerd: Good evening, Joe.
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Yoc hum: Joe Yoc hum. West Ada School District. 1303 East Central Drive, Meridian,
Idaho. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, glad to be here this evening. So, our
safety bus committee met recently and we did recommend safety busing for all students
who will attend Owyhee High School and our board did approve that. So, that's already
in place. That's good for three years. So, that will be in effect when Owyhee High
School opens and so what -- that committee meets on an annual basis and, then, it
revisits safety bus zones on a three year rotation. So, Owyhee won't come up again for
another three years from -- from this month and some of the things that the committee
looks -- looks at are sidewalks and connections through subdivisions and safe routes to
school and we have walk zones all over the district. If you go to the district web page
and you go to the transportation tab and look at walk zones, you will see that there are
walk zones within the mile and a half distance of the school at probably all of our
schools. Willow Creek, for example, that used to be a square mile and we were busing
students from one corner, because there was no way through the subdivisions or
around, so we were safety busing. So, that's how the process works and it's an annual
-- annual review.
De Weerd: So, this would just make it in effect for -- for one year after the school
opens.
Yoc hum: Oh, the committee would meet again in March of '21 to review the -- they
meet in March on an annual basis. So, whenever this comes up again for it to review --
be reviewed and the committee looks at everything.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Joe, do you know how many students you have got -- high school students
you have gotten in that kind of one and a half mile radius that are going to be impacted
by this? Let's say the school is built tomorrow.
Yoc hum: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, I do not.
Cavener: Ballpark? Are we talking -- are we talking about ten kids? Are we talking
about --
Yoc hum: I say 75 to 100.
Cavener: Okay. Big number. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for Joe while we have up here?
Bernt: Madam Mayor, just to clarify. So, you are going to provide a bus plan three
years from now or three years from when the school is opened?
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Yoc hum: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bernt, it is in effect right now and once the
school opens, then, it will be reviewed -- probably the March before, because it will
come up for the next school year. So, March of '20 it would be on the list again to take a
look at for the next -- for the next few -- few years.
De Weerd: But the commitment is through 2021 at this point.
Yoc hum: That's correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
G.Allen: So, just to fill in the blanks there, the policy will be in place as long as it's
needed. It can only be in place for three years at a time before it's reviewed. And I --
Joe whispered in my ear that one thing I didn't mention -- I want to make sure
everybody is aware is that there is an emergency -- a second emergency access going
in at McDermott immediately. What we are talking -- we have been talking about is a
second public street access. Okay? Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Yoc hum: I apologize. If I may correct one item. Eric Exline just informed me that we
have zero students currently residing within a mile and a half of the high school site.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Gary, real -- if I could have you come up. I -- I don't think I got one other
question answered. It was -- we were talking about the -- the offer to provide the sewer
easement that might not otherwise be conditioned, but it was part of trying to create a
holistic solution. Is the language, if it went that way, if that was part of a solution, is it
the language within Mr. Wardle's October 19th letter, that proposed condition?
G.Allen: I don't have that in front of me.
Borton: And you might take a second and go look at it if need be, but -- I don't know if
that's the right language that you contemplated. I don't mean to put you on the spot,
but --
De Weerd: Why don't we take a five minute break. We will reconvene in five minutes.
(Recess: 8:44 p.m. to 8:53 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call this meeting back to order. Do you need a
few more minutes? Gary, do you need a few more minutes? Okay. We have all night.
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G.Allen: Yes . Don't we. Yes. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council.
Gary Allen, 601 West Bannock in Boise. I was provided a copy of the October 19th
letter by Spink Butler, which includes proposed language for a sewer easement. Our
preference remains that the staff conditions be approved as proposed. However, as
part of an overall agreement with regard to the sewer line, this language would work for
-- for what we -- for providing access to that property.
Borton: Thanks.
De Weerd: Any further comment?
G.Allen: I don't think so. Thank you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Any follow-up questions from Council? Okay. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: For like the first time ever I have a couple opinions. One, I think we need to
require that it connects to McMillan. Love the idea of -- if they were all built, but I think
just to be most realistic and efficient that the north connection needs to be the one that
we require happen if this is going to happen. For the other opinion -- could we go back
to the slide that's got the red road? So, I keep struggling with this, because I'm like
spending tax dollars here, which I hate doing, but trying to figure out how to help the --
the property owner figure out what to do and what comes to me is that if this were to be
built as a neighborhood there is going to be a connection over there regardless, with far
less heartburn over it. If we don't require that the bridge be built, that still could leave
that property -- the rest of this constructed and -- and that property still locked out
should the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District say no for whatever reason. So, for that
reason, for the rest of this to be built I think it makes more sense to have that bridge
crossed, figuratively and literally, so that there is no longer any possible roadblocks to
that -- to the rest of it being able to be constructed and along with the easement that Mr.
Hunter requested to build -- to build the rest of it himself. That way he doesn't have to
worry about Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District for some reason not making it happen
and the rest of this can be built without it, you know, worry. Because, again, if it was
built as a neighborhood this wouldn't even be a topic of discussion, because it would be
handled. So, to McMillan and cross -- cross the -- create the bridge.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I agree with you, Mr. Palmer.
De Weerd: Whoa. Any other discussion? What would you like to do?
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Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I understand the access needing to get to the other property -- the Boise Hunter
Homes property. I don't think it's right that we require that to go through the Flowers'
parcel, though, because there is no control over what the Flowers do. But it could be
put on the district to either get an agreement with Flowers or create an alternative route,
which would mean them redesigning much of their development. But doing nothing
doesn't seem right either. I don't think that we should necessarily require that it is going
through the -- the Flowers' parcel is my point. Hopefully that will get them a little closer.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I can ask a -- I'm going to ask a question and you can nod, Gary, or come up
and answer it, but the idea of --
De Weerd: We would want him to come up and answer.
Borton: Probably come up and answer. A little more official than a nod.
De Weerd: Because a nod on the public record just doesn't count.
Borton: The idea of the easement dedicated right of way for a future public street that
would take this -- the red line, the local street, directly east, granted the Fowler --
Flowers' parcel, the district doesn't control, but I assume on the -- when it comes, then,
into the district parcel that's where the location of the dedication would be, straight
across to the --
G.Allen: Straight across. Yes.
Borton: -- the east.
G.Allen: Uh-huh.
Borton: Yeah. Okay. So, there would be the triangular out parcel of Flowers that would
have to be solved somehow.
G.Allen: Yes . Gary Allen. 601 West Bannock. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Yes . A little
bit of the Flowers' parcel that has to be solved.
Borton: Okay. And is it the district's -- if there were a resolution to that effect, that
Condition 1.1.8 would be modified to account for those additional concessions by the
district, with regards to providing the easement necessary for that dedication.
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G.Allen: Correct.
Borton: Okay.
G.Allen: Yes . Well, you -- Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, if you want that to
be part of your conditions we can also make a private agreement, if you want to enforce
that as part of what you -- it would require a change in that condition.
Borton: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions while we have Mr. Allen up here? Okay. Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I don't know if there is additional comment on this. If not I'm going to move to
close the public hearing on item H-2018-0075.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: A comment. Hats off to the parties who are working diligently to resolve this
and these issues. Definitely I would acknowledge is a critical importance that -- that the
specific language as in having this high school be properly considered. I -- I think there
is a lot of meeting in the middle that -- that has had to happen to make something like
this come forward and I think there is a solution that allows it to go forward that does
somewhat meet in the middle. In light of everything we have heard and seen and the
record through today, there was a couple of solutions that -- that for me I think is -- is
appropriate and warrants approval of this -- of this project. I think all things being said,
I'm supportive of what the school district is presenting as that -- I keep referencing to
1.1.8, the condition of approval as written, but to include language to capture the -- the
easement for the dedication of -- of right of way to facilitate the future public street to be
constructed at the Woodside properties expense at some point. I think along with that
the district's agreement to utilize the sewer easement condition of approval put in Mr.
Wardle's letter of October 19th seems to be another appropriate piece to include as part
of their joint agreement. With regards to initial 1.1.11 , which speaks to that secondary
access, I think Councilman Palmer is correct in really trying to focus the effort and
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October 23, 2018
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opportunity to go north, if at all possible, but also that condition as written includes the
east-west connection over to McDermott, which is through property the district currently
controls and it has good language within it already, this condition that speaks to if
Highway 16 is extended and interferes with it, then, another public street access would
have to be constructed. So, condition 1.1.11 , I think the concern from police and fire
about going east or perhaps south back to Ustick really shouldn't be on the table and,
quite frankly, it might be academic, because you might have a solution north and to the
east anyway. So, the parenthetical part of -- Sonya, if you could put up that condition
real quick it might make a little more sense. Yes, please. So -- so, the condition as
written I think is -- is appropriate and the two little I's or the two options, that's the north
or to the east, I would strike or other means not listed and focus the solution to one of
those two solutions I think -- yeah, that might not be an issue in any way, but provide
some greater clarity and I think that's supportive of what our public service -- public
safety has been promoting. All of the other conditions of approval I think hats off to
everybody in working hard to get those together. I think they provide a good path for the
school to be successful. There is a million unknowns. The district doesn't build high
schools every year and the city doesn't see them come before us every year, but I think
we have done a really good job of collaborating and sometimes kind of jumping off the
dock together and I mentioned this at the last hearing if -- if this is somewhat leap frog
development I would agree. I think it is and I think it kind of has to be and I think that's
the fabric that we create somewhat when we approve, you know, developments at the
pace that we approve them. Each residential development comes with a commitment
from us to provide police and fire and acknowledge that public schools and public parks
are all going to come with it, so it's difficult to -- to have a philosophy that promotes
improve -- improvement of private property and private development without
acknowledging that we are also making the same commitment to support all of these
other parts of our community and the public school system is of paramount importance.
So, those are the -- my thoughts at least on a couple of conditions of approval that could
get tweaked to capture some of the good cooperative spirit of the parties here and
would be the basis of my support for this application.
De Weerd: Any other comment? Do we have a motion?
Borton: Madam Mayor, I would move that we approve H-2018-00 -- did we close the
public hearing?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: I would move we approve H-2018-0075 to include -- boy. All of the conditions
as cited in my comments just a moment ago and inclusive all the proposed conditions of
approval that were presented by staff in the most recent staff report.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary and Sonya, is --
Borton: Did I --
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De Weerd: Did he hit on everything you needed to have answered?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, with the changes you mentioned previously?
Borton: Yes . I kind of -- I went ready fire aim a little bit with --
Allen: Okay.
Borton: -- conditions within a motion prior to making a motion, so -- or I could reverse it
and those become part of the motion.
Allen: Thank you.
Borton: Does that make sense?
Bernt: To clarify, what -- Madam Mayor? To clarify, what was -- was part of your
condition -- what was -- what was -- just to clarify, what was the access to the Woodside
property or did you not include in the --
Borton: Yeah. Madam Mayor. Condition 1.1.8 -- if you can scroll up a little bit here,
Sonya. So, that would -- that would remain, but be modified to capture the school
district's concession, I guess, through their discussions as presented today to include
provisions for a public roadway easement and future dedication along their own parcel
connecting to the east. It does not address the Flowers parcel.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, so does it cross
the -- are you requiring them to construct it across the Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District
facility or to it?
Borton: To the property -- Madam Mayor. To the property boundary. I don't believe it
contemplates constructing the crossing.
De Weerd: To the Flowers property.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Unless there is a second, I want to do a slight tweak substitute.
Cavener: I will second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and second.
Borton: Discussion.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Does that mean I have an amended --
Palmer: Yes. Madam Mayor, as an amended motion I move everything Councilman
Cavener -- not Councilman Cavener. Councilman Borton had in his motion, with the
exception of requiring -- because it doesn't guarantee that he's going to be able to
construct access. So, the school goes in, there is no guarantee that there is going to be
a way to get there. If we require that there is a way built, then, at the same time the
school goes in the bridge is there and, then, he is guaranteed access to that bridge, not
having to deal with any other governments, just -- he's got his easement locked in. So,
all of the conditions and -- and comments in Councilman Boston's motion, but requiring
that the school district construct the bridge across the canal and stop there. And
provide the easement to be able to -- a future developer construct his own road.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Is that the reimbursement for -- all on the --
Palmer: On the district.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: The problem I have is that you're at -- either it would be a crossing upon
property the district doesn't own, I believe, so they couldn't do it or it would require, you
know, a northern jog and redesign of the district's property, which I thought, all things
being considered, was -- would not be an appropriate solution.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I agree, I would rather it go straight across, but without the Flowers property
owners on board -- and so maybe even adjusting the motion that if this is something
that is doable and it makes sense, that either all parties have an agreement to be able
to guarantee the access to the parcel to the east or construct the bridge and provide the
easement. Flowers' property not being relevant to -- if they don't get on board, then,
they go around it.
De Weerd: Well, since they don't have a second -- Mr. Nary, is -- no. To the substitute.
Palmer: That was a substitute motion.
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De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Nary, is there a way that this particular issue can be isolated and --
and that the parties come back? If -- if the Council wanted to take action tonight and
leave this as a pending item to be addressed, can they do that?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so this would be a condition -- is this a
DA condition, Sonya, or a CUP condition?
Allen: Development agreement.
Nary: Okay. So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the applicant -- the property
owner can always come back and request an amendment or a modification of the
development. If you don't require it there would be no reason to come back and modify
the agreement. If you do require it and for some reason there can't be made -- the
issues of concern of crossing the Nampa-Meridian on license agreement, the parties
coming to some agreement in some fashion, the school district can always come back
and request you modify the agreement and take that requirement away, but if you don't
require it there is no mechanism for the adjoining property to come back and request
you modify it and now require it. So, your only way to, essentially, put a pin in it and
allow it to be considered later, if circumstances warrant, is to require it, because, then,
they can come back and ask you to not require it.
De Weerd: Can they take action on this application and bring the DA requirements back
at the next Council meeting?
Nary: I'm sorry, could you repeat that?
De Weerd: So, can you go ahead and -- and if Council were to approve -- approve the
project, the annexation -- all -- all three of these items and can they delay the
development agreement and conditions to the next Council meeting to adopt at that
time?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes. The problem is -- is normally what
we do is we create the findings and -- and -- and the conditions and, then, we create the
development agreement. So, the -- so, they -- that's the natural progression of it. So,
all you would see next is the findings and conditions. If for some reason at the -- if you
want to modify it there to again remove a requirement, it is -- it is cleaner and more
acceptable than to add a requirement later, that you did require now, you can do it -- I
mean we have considered that in other actions, but -- so, you -- once you make those
findings that's what we base the DA on. So, yes, if you want to leave this open and
maybe even two weeks when the findings come back, that would probably be the 13th I
guess.
De Weerd: The 7th.
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Nary: Oh, yeah. The 7th. Right. So, the 7th and you want to reopen it to make
another motion, you can do that, but I think what Sonya is looking for tonight is what
findings and conditions do you want her to prepare for -- for approval, so that we can,
then, create a development agreement subsequent to that.
Allen: And, Madam Mayor, if I may, I -- I'm very concerned about where we are going
with this with the alignment of the east-west local street and the easement to the east
property boundary to the Woodside property. I would feel much more comfortable if -- if
we continued this and the applicant worked with Boise Hunter Homes to come up with a
-- or Woodside development to come up with a location and had ACHD sign off on the
alignment, the configuration of the street. It's going to be really funky if they go up and
go around the Flowers' property and --
De Weerd: She's trying to help you on that and give the school district some certainty
on the direction that the Council wants to go. So, I guess, Council, we do have a motion
on -- on the table to vote on that approves this application with the -- the road stopping
at the district property line. Is there any further discussion?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I also want to echo Mr. Borton's comments about how awesome this process
has been with the collaboration between the two parties. I would add one more and
say, you know -- you know, when this happens again in the future and you guys -- when
West Ada builds another school and has a steering committee, I would hope that a
member of the City Council or a member of the City of Meridian sits on that steering
committee that we are involved with that process. When we talk about collaboration we
talk about being on the same page. I think that speaks to that, you know. I think that
we could have eliminated a lot of these problems and a lot of these concerns and all
these questions that we are debating right now if you would have just reached out and it
would have been a lot cleaner, I believe. But that said, I agree with staff. I -- I
personally -- I don't like approving projects, whether it's this or anything else, when there
is open ended questions that are very serious like this property and if I -- if I were Jim
Hunter with Boise Hunter Homes and with -- with this Woodside, I would have some
serious reservations with this and I get it and so until this is resolved and -- and we
know that there is an agreement in place between the two parties and we know how,
you know, there is going to be access to that property for sure, with I's dotted and T's
crossed, I feel like I am not in support of it until that is resolved. So, those are my
comments.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I just -- I can't remember any other application that we allowed a plan to be --
the property to be landlocked without some type of requirement. I would be more
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comfortable continuing this -- if they were this close today, maybe they can be this close
by our next meeting. So, I think we are all -- you know, we all want this to happen, we
are all on the same page -- if it's just continued for that one issue -- not to reopen
anything else, just continue it for the one issue so they can get this worked out, get the
access agreement figured out, I would be a lot more comfortable with that.
De Weerd: Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, absent;
Bernt, nay.
De Weerd: Okay. All -- or not all ayes. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
C. Public Works: Budget Amendment for Environmental Solid
Waste Coordinator/Analyst Not to Exceed $93,440
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-C is under our Public Works Department.
Miles: What a fascinating discussion. I value the fact that you guys are sitting there
making those decisions. Thank you. If it's all right I'm going to stick to the script,
because I know it's late and --
De Weerd: If you just give a few minutes, because it's hard to hear. Okay. Go ahead.
Miles: All right. I'm here tonight requesting approval of an employee resource to
manage solid waste activities within the city to be funded by the Enterprise Fund. As
you're aware solid waste efforts are managed by a committee approach today. This
topic's been part of our conversations for a while now. Over the last year significant
discussions have been occurring around several solid waste topics. We had the Hefty
energy bag program. We have had the recycling fee discussion. We have had the
landfill tipping fee discussions going on and, additionally, there is a growing need for
technical analysis related to programs around solid waste and there is an ever
increasing need from our community around education and outreach related to solid
waste. So, as you're aware we had a team in Public Works and Finance and Legal look
at the duties and responsibilities that are going on in solid waste these days and get a
work breakdown structure analysis, looking at over 1,900 hours annually that are
required to keep this program going and with that what you have got in front of you is a
budget amendment request that we feel is appropriate to approve for a staffing
resource, so that we can bring those responsibilities to a central point of contact within
the city to report to Public Works to address the ongoing issues around solid waste.
Maybe I will stop there. In summary what we are looking for is a budget amendment
approval in the amount not to exceed 93,440 dollars, which you have in front of you and
I would be happy to take any questions.
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De Weerd: Council, any questions? If there are no questions, I would entertain a
motion.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: The Public Works liaison isn't here, I'm happy to move that we approve this
budget amendment for an environment solid waste coordinator analyst for a not to
exceed amount of 93,440 dollars.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, absent;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you for all the work you have done.
Miles: You bet.
Item 10: Department Reports
A. Community Development: Comprehensive Plan Vision
Document Presentation
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10-A is under Community Development Department.
Comprehensive Plan Vision Document.
McClure: Mayor and City Council, thanks for having me here tonight. I will be brief. I'm
going to be going over with you the comprehensive process to date and the direction we
are moving forward. On the screen is a timeline for the project. It shows where we are
at today. Just wrapping up the vision stage and moving into the my Meridian choices
segment. Part of the reason I'm here tonight is to touch base regarding the conclusion
of the my Meridian vision phase, which is the core and base for much of the upcoming
work. You can see we basically have four kind of segments and we are just starting the
third one. This real quick is an overview of outreach and engagement to date. You can
see the website and social media engagement have been a huge portion of it. Phase
one and phase two efforts is focused on meeting people where they are at at
community events also yielded significant responses.
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Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Brian, I hope it's okay that I'm interrupting your presentation. What do you
attribute the increase of more people participating in phase two? Typically you start with
a large number and, then, people kind of fall off. So, how are you able to engage more
people in phase two than you engaged in phase one?
McClure: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, that's a good question. I think perhaps
two things. I think one of them is that it's a little misleading, because we have engaged
-- we have added social media here. It's kind of one thing by -- by itself. Some of those
go in phase one and phase two as well. So, I don't know what that exact breakdown is.
However, with phase two we did -- we did a lot of events and we also had a telephone
town hall, which had some pretty significant numbers towards the end of that project as
well. So, kudos to Kaycee in the Mayor's office for that. So, with that I will pass around
draft copies of the my Meridian vision document. This is, in essence, a summary of
public involvement to date. The meat of this are five value themes, premier, evolving,
livable, connected and vibrant themes and has several vision statements with it. This
hopefully looks familiar as you -- as you participate in the online surveys. Many of you -
- we saw you at events where we had a large poster boards and dots. This is what that
-- this is what that was. There were -- also these statements were in the packet memo
we gave you. Most of the statements were crafted from phase one input and have
subsequently been revised based on both additional public outreach and steering
committee review. I won't go through all these one by one, but I will call some changes
to your attention as we move through. Premier community is the first theme. These
statements are largely the same as phase two work. Again, this poster board and the
dots are in the surveys. Evolving community is the second theme. I would like just to
take a moment to point out the last one here. This one is likely new to you, as it was
something that many of the comments this summer indicated was missing. This
replaces a statement focused on business incentives, which had very low public
prioritization at events and on the survey. Livable community was the third theme.
Again, these should look familiar. I will just take a minute to plug Parks and Recreation
Department. Most of these scored the highest. The -- I think pathways there was the
highest ranked statement we had for any of the themes. Connected community was the
fourth theme. These should, again, be familiar, but all these have morphed a little bit,
but none were replaced here, but they all had quite a bit of tweaks. I would like to note
the third one especially. At the steering committee this -- this was one that they really
wanted to place as something that we need to own and something that we need to be
aware of, both because we are the central -- a lot of traffic moves through us, a lot of
growth moves through us and it's also -- it's also a benefit, so as we move forward
looking for both strength and opportunities relate to central and key in the valley. And,
lastly, a vibrant community. Fifth theme. I would like to note the last one in this case.
It's replaces an item about diversity of housing and opportunities for lifecycle transitions.
The idea was captured in the premier theme already, so we are not losing that and our
historic character was something, again, mentioned frequently in the feedback during
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phase two. Next steps. These are the statements -- these statements that we have
here are a launchpad for ongoing and upcoming market land use and transportation
work. We will take these opportunities identified by the public, by the steering
committee and staff, and, then, find ways to mesh those with these statements. We are
going to take this back to the public, revise both the statements and the opportunities, if
necessary, possibly several times and, ultimately, come to City Council with a plan for
text policies and hoping to try and wrap this up at the tail end of summer next year.
Lastly -- and as I mentioned, we have had significant public involvement throughout this
phase -- these phases. Phase one already has a document on the website that
encapsulates all of the phase one activity, including verbatim comments. Phase two will
have something similar in the very near future. So, if you're interested in those
comments they will all be included in there and all available on the website. To wrap
this up, I'm hoping to receive your blessing of sorts for this public involvement, for the
steering committee work and work reflected in this document. We have a specific ask
or request. We were just hoping for a general we like what we see so far.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brian. It's been quite the process and -- and I loved how much
interest you have gotten from the -- you definitely have people talking about it and that's
-- that's great. Council, any questions or comments for Brian?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: You asked for a -- for a question or you asked for some feedback, so I'm
happy to give it. I think the work that you and your colleagues have done around this
issue has been phenomenal, and, Brian, I know that -- we see polished, finished
documents like this and the updates that you send us are polished and look great and I
recognize there is a significant amount of work and time that goes into that. I think that
we have really done a phenomenal job of engaging our public around this issue, which
is I know for me when we started to head down this path it was something that was
really, really important to me. So, if you're looking for the feedback about keep doing
what you're doing, yes, please, keep doing what you guys as a team are doing and,
secondly, just because we don't get you here before us very often, I just want to say
thanks. I think that you are a stellar employee in the City of Meridian, who really works
overtime to make us on the Council look really, really great and we rarely get the
opportunity to thank staff when they are here, especially those that aren't here that
often, and so I just wanted to say thank you for all you do for the city and for the Council
and for all the departments. It's -- it's noticed and it's very, very appreciated.
McClure: Thank you.
De Weerd: Other comments? I like how you further refine the comments from the first
visioning part. I -- I love the changes. It really shows that you're listening to our citizens
feedback and -- and tracking that. So, look forward to seeing the phase three as you
move forward with the what's next steps. Those will start to really pin down a lot of the
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overarching themes and make them something that we can -- can really put actionable
items to. So, that's great. Anything specific, Council? If you don't have anything tonight
-- I know you like to process it. Please look at this and get feedback to Brian and I'm
sure he would appreciate your follow up. Thank you, Brian. This looks great. This is a
great piece.
McClure: Madam Mayor, if I may, here is -- here is what's next, by the way. I do have
kind of one final note. It was sort of a request by several members of our steering
committee and it's something that we have heard from the public. The city has
allocated a tremendous amount of resources to this and not only in the budget, but staff
time and it is very important. I've heard you guys tell us it's very important and I really
appreciate that. However, not everyone else is hearing that. We have several steering
committee members that have given kind of these concerns and questions to us.
Attendance at the steering committee has kind of waned. We are not seeing as many
people on a return basis and a few of them have said that they don't know that their
opinion is going to matter or that once we are all done a plan will be issued. No plan is
perfect. Obviously, change is going to occur. That's natural. But anything City Council
can do to continue to convey your support and commitment to both the process and the
plan would really be appreciated, because I have heard that and I know you guys mean
that. But everyone else isn't hearing that. So, if there is a way we can share that better,
I would take suggestions or anything that you guys can offer.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Perhaps this is an offline conversation. I know that my vision for this whole
thing is that it's always been citizen led, but staff managed, and Council trying to keep,
you know, our nose out of it as -- as much as possible and perhaps that has been
received that we don't value participant's opinions. So, what -- if Council is amenable,
perhaps there is an opportunity, maybe over each series of meetings, where a Council
member can at least stop in, meet those that are participating on the committee, I would
be happy to go to the first one as soon as I know where it is or I can relay that you often
are the conduit where you hear from us, you relate to them, you hear from them, relate
it to us and -- and I'm supportive of -- if Council members are available and able to, that
we can just pop in and at least thank them and -- and really reinforce, at least from my
perspective, that their opinion is incredibly valued and welcomed.
De Weerd: And we appreciate that. Mr. Bernt is the liaison or the representative on
there. Mr. Palmer had been and Mr. Bernt has -- has given his assurety that he would
be in attendance and -- and make sure to represent the Council on that.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
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Bernt: That is the truth.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate that. I guess still to that point, if -- unless there is an objection, I
would love all of us to have the opportunity. We don't have to stay in participate --
Bernt: Sure.
Cavener: -- in keeping Council members nose out of it, but at least an opportunity for
some personal interaction I don't think is counterproductive to the work that they are
doing.
McClure: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I wouldn't disagree at all.
Item 11 : Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Thank you. Okay. Anything under
Item 11? Lieutenant Colaianni, I would ask that -- I -- I know that the opening of
Owyhee High School will not be for a couple of years, but I hope our transportation
commission can start tackling some of the roadways around that area. I know both our
police and fire have indicated concerns of the speed limits in that area and -- and some
other safety concerns. So, if conversations can begin to happen at the transportation
commission level that would be great and that you would bring some of those
conversations back to this Council, so they can hear what might be proposed and
moving forward.
Colaianni: I will pass your comments onto them.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, there are a couple of upcoming events. Unplug
Town Hall is tomorrow at 6:30 at Lakeview Clubhouse. We have been getting a number
of questions. Again, our citizens set the agenda. Trunk or treat is on Thursday, starting
at 6:00 o'clock. Expect lots of people and we have over a hundred trunks to greet all of
the kids that are dressed up. MADC has their prescription drug take back on Saturday
from 10:00 to 2:00 at Blue Cross and we do have a Veteran's Day Parade. It is in
Boise, but it is important. We would love to see a great crowd out there supporting our
veterans. That is Saturday, November 3rd, from 10:00 to 12:00.
Item 12: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 74-206(1)(d): To consider
records that are exempt from disclosure as provided in chapter 1,
title
74, Idaho Code and 74-206(1)(f): To communicate with legal counsel
for the public agency to discuss the legal ramifications of and legal
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options for pending litigation, or controversies not yet being litigated
but imminently likely to be litigated.
De Weerd: With that I would entertain a motion to adjourn into Executive Session per
Item 12.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I would so move that we go into Executive Session pursuant to Idaho State
Code 74-206(1)(d) and (1)(f).
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session. Mr. Cl erk,
will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, absent;
Bernt, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (9:40 p.m. to 10:46 p.m.)
De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Borton: So moved.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Borton: So moved.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:46 P.M.
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