HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-10-02 minutesMeridian City Council October 2, 2018.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:02 p.m., Tuesday,
October 2, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer, Genesis
Milam, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Also present: C. Jay Coles, Bill Nary, Cameron Ariel, Caleb Hood, Sonya Allen, Jeff
Lavey, Harper, Joe Bongiorno, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: I will start tonight's meeting if I could get everyone to take your seats.
Welcome to our City Council meeting. We certainly appreciate you all being here with
us tonight. For the record it is Tuesday, October 2nd. It's two minutes after 6:00. We
will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us
in a pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Michael Pearson of Seventh Day Adventist
Church
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor
Michael Pearson with the Seventh-Day Adventist Church. If you will all join us in the
community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Thank
you for joining us.
Pearson: Eternal Father, we want to thank you tonight for your faithfulness, for your
sustaining grace, and so we pause for just a few moments to asked for divine wisdom to
consider you in all our deliberations this evening, that we might have compassion and
grace towards each other. We ask this in the name of Jesus Christ, our Lord and
Savior, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
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De Weerd: Thank you, Pastor Michael. Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: A couple of minor changes. On Item 9-C, when we get to it the applicant's
requested that to be continued to November 7th. So, we will address that when we get
to it. And, then, Item 10-A is an update on Limebike. If nobody's heard, Limebike has
arrived in the community and we thought we had a full crowd, so it's okay we will move
Item 10-A to perhaps Item 8-B, so we can get a brief update on Limebike and what's
happening, what's being fixed, while captive public can enjoy that as well. So, with
those two changes, Madam Mayor, I move we adapt the agenda.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as changed. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, anything under five?
Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we have several individuals signed up.
However, all of them indicate the discussion topic which is later on your agenda, which
is 9-E, the public hearing for Owyhee High School. So, other than that there is nothing
other than the Owyhee High School discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Clerk, if you will make sure that they are included under that item
that would be great. Thank you.
Item 6: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Approve Minutes of August 28, 2018 City Council and Meridian
Development Corporation Special Joint Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of September 11, 2018 City Council Special
Meeting
C. Approve Minutes of September 18, 2018 City Council Regular
Meeting
D. Baraya Apartments Subdivision Sanitary Sewer and Water
Main
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Easement
E. Blakeslee Commons Subdivision - Sanitary Sewer Easement
F. Blakeslee Commons Subdivision - Sanitary Sewer Easement
#2
G. Blakeslee Commons Subdivision - Water Main Easement
H. Findings of Fact, Conclusion of Law for Whitecliffe Estates
Subdivision (H-2018-0074) by 4345 Linder Road, LLC, Located
at 943 W. McMillan Rd.
I. Addendum No. 16 to Agreement for City Prosecution/Criminal
Legal Services dated November 1, 2002.
J. Sole Source Approval: Analytical Laboratories for
Microbiological Sampling
K. Professional Services Agreements for Photography Services
and Photograph Purchasing Agreement to Document Historic
Properties Not-to-Exceed $2,000 each
1. Gregory Browning
2. Jason Murphy
L. Approval of Blanket Purchase Order #19-0016 to Dubois
Chemicals, Inc. in the amount of $100,000.00 for FY19 “ Ferric
Chloride” purchases at the Wastewater Treatment Plant.
M. Approval of a Contract Amendment No.3 to Oxarc in the
amount of 130,000.00 for the “SODIUM HYPOCHLORITE ”
project at Water & the Wastewater Treatment Plant.
N. City Financial Report for August 2018
O. AP Invoices for Payment 10/3/18 - $1,428,668.98
De Weerd: Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There were no changes to the Consent Agenda as published, so I would move
that the Consent Agenda be approved and for the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
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Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 7: Items Moved From The Consent Agenda [Action Item ]
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Mayor's Youth Advisory Council Update
De Weerd: So, we will move to 8-A under community presentations. Tonight we have
the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council here. Both our Chair and Vice-Chair. Welcome.
Hutchins: Thank you, Madam Mayor and City Council, for having us. I'm Ben Hutchins,
vice-chair.
Denen: Madam Mayor, City Council Members, my name is Logan Denen and I am the
chair of the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council. All right. So, we are going to start talking
about our leadership training in August and the theme that we have created for our
whole year this year. So, August 3rd and 4th the Mayor's Advisory Council met together
to create kind of our plan for the entirety of the year. We wanted to create a more
streamlined idea for what we wanted to do, because we felt it was more important to
have a singular idea, rather than each subcommittee breaking off and kind of not
creating a succinct group and so our theme that we created for this year with MYAC
Gets Talking and our plan with this was kind of talking about mental health,
homelessness, those who are hungry, stuff like that. Things that a lot of people think
are not usually talked about, have a lot of stigma behind it, so, yeah, we felt like the
point of MYAC Gets Talking was really going to help us to become better presenters in
front of the community and make us look better.
Hutchins: I will make introductions of this year's Executive Council. This year as our
chair is Logan Denen. I'm the vice-chair, Ben Hutchins. Kaitryn Neeley is our secretary.
Abbey Hutchins is our social coordinator. Jared Gonzales is our communications
coordinator. Britton Davis is our Government Affairs chair. Shayna Thomas is our Teen
Activities Committee chair. Colton Hawkins is our community service chair. Amber
Graves is our government affairs vice-chair. Jaelahna Coursey is our Teen Activities
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Committee vice-chair. Erina Fuhriman is our community service vice-chair. Chloe
Robins is our Renaissance ambassador. Jacob Francis is our large ambassador.
Kourtney McBride is our Meridian ambassador. Sydney Fischer is our Rocky Mountain
ambassador. Jackson Jones is our at large co-ambassador. Warren Johnson is our
Mountain View ambassador. And our advisors this year are Dom Gelsomino as our
government affairs advisor. Jodi St. Martin is our lead MYAC advisor. Renee White is
our team activities committee advisor. Macey Snelson is our community service
advisor. Ashlyn Miller is our community service advisor. Stephany Galbreaith is our
community service advisor.
Denen: And this year we also have participation with our youth on commissions.
Jackson Jones is on our Parks and Recreation. Kourtney McBride is with the Historical
Preservation and Charlene Pederson for the Transportation. This year our first meeting
was headed up by our kickoff event where we had over a hundred people in
attendance. At that meeting we introduced our new executive council and we reviewed
what MYAC was, what we stand for, and got everybody comfortable with each other.
Hutchins: This year we have around 16 schools that are represented in MYAC, as well
as several that are homeschooled, ranging from Central Academy to Renaissance,
Rocky Mountain, and all those you can see on your screen.
Denen: And, then, our first big event that was led by our Teen Activities Committee was
our movie night. We went to the family movie night in -- what park was that?
De Weerd: Settlers Park.
Denen: Settlers Park. That's right. There were about 20 youth that were there. It was
a really great point for a lot of newcomers and a lot of people who have been a part of
MYAC for a long time to kind of meet each other, socialize and get comfortable with the
new executive council. It was a really great event.
Hutchins: Next was our Dutch Bros CPR day, which was a great success this year. We
had four locations that we went to for four hours. We had participation of 42 MYACers.
We had four advisors and we trained 553 people and it was our best year yet, actually,
with -- with less time than last year we trained more people than ever.
De Weerd: And it was much warmer ; r ight?
Hutchins: It was much warmer this year. Absolutely.
Denen: All right. And our most recent event was the Treasure Value Youth Safety
Summit. This is an event that we do every year. We take a bunch of high school
students to Wahooz for the day and we do a lot of safety training. We have the
Meridian Police Department come and do some texting and driving on the go-karts.
They help us with impaired goggles on mini golf and, then, they did some bullying
simulation on the laser tag. We had some really great guest speakers, too. We had
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Matt McCarter come and talk to us about positivity, suicide prevention, stuff like that.
We had the Meridian Anti-drug Coalition come and talk to us about how we can help
prevent drug use in our schools and how to get involved with that. We had the Idaho
Transportation Department come and they did kind of like a family feud style game
where they showed us a bunch of information about driving and how to be safe on the
roads and some statistics that were picked up by the youth easier than just a
presentation showing them statistics. And, then, I was also able to present about what
Renaissance did last year. Every year the -- well, last year we started the toolkit for the
Treasure Valley Youth Safety Summit, which pushed students to get involved in the
school and push the safety things that we learn in the safety summit to go back to our
schools. Renaissance was the overall champion of pushing that and so we got to
present about all the awesome things that Renaissance had the chance to do. We
talked about our suicide prevention and kindness movement. So, that was really
impressive. We had some really great vendors, too. We had Idaho Central Credit
Union, the Community Kindness Movement and a bunch of other really awesome
people that came to support this great event.
Hutchins: Our next event was the farmstead where we had 54 people come and we all
socialized. We just had a really fun time. The next was our middle school safety
summit. This stemmed from us having such a successful High School safety summit. It
was the first year that we had done this. We had two speakers -- two guests speakers -
- three guest speakers. Officer Gomez. He spoke about internet safety. And, then, we
had Officer Ray Ellis present on personal safety.
Denen: And, then, our upcoming event that we have is getting involved with the
Meridian trunk or treat, which is planned for October 25th and we are expecting a really
big turnout, because last year we got a lot of people involved and we are hoping now to
have even more MYACers get involved this year. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Not a question, but a comment. Good job, guys. Awesome. As always. You
have our one hundred percent support. Continue with the good work.
Denen: Thank you.
Hutchins: Thank you.
De Weerd: As related to the toolkit, can you give us an idea of some of the topics that
were brought up and maybe a couple of examples of strategies that might go back to
the high schools?
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Denen: Well, one of the big ones that Renaissance did was our kindness stuff. Last
year we put together 800 Valentine's Day cards and put candies in each one of them
and we passed them out to every single student in the school. Our focus was just
spreading kindness on a day where some people don't always feel the happiest. We
just wanted to make sure that everyone was feeling loved and everyone felt supported.
So, that was really our big thing last year. I know that other schools have gotten
involved with their Red Ribbon Week, other things like that. Yeah, Renaissance was
really focused on the kindness part of it.
Hutchins: Yeah. And North Star -- I was the at large ambassador last year -- co-
ambassador and we focused on Do The Right Day, especially as well, where we made
hundreds of cards that we put in everybody's locker with compliments and we just tried
to bring everybody together in one day and make everybody do something good.
De Weerd: Well, very good. Well, thank you for all you're doing and we look forward to
your monthly reports.
Hutchins: Thank you.
Denen: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you, City Council.
B. Moved from 10A: Bike Share Programs
De Weerd: Okay. Our second item under Community Items Presentations was
removed -- or moved forward. It was 10-A on the regular agenda. So, our Community
Development update on Bike Share Program. So, who is up first?
Nary: I think I was volun-told to be the spokesman on this, Madam Mayor. Madam
Mayor, Members of the Council, so we have had some concerns raised in the
community regarding the Limebike program. Myself, Robert Simison from Mayor's
office, have had a couple of conversations with the Limebike folks about these concerns
and I could point out a few of them we thought we would want to bring to your attention
and seek some direction. When this program was originally proposed to the city, they
did -- they did want to enter into a licensing agreement with the city and they have, but
there were some things that were stated and committed to and proposed at that time
that were incorporated into the agreement and some were things like there was a --
there was a quote made at one of the meetings -- we try to do a lot of education up front
anytime that we launch. They said they would start with a number of about 200, about
half of them to be scooters and half would be bikes. There was a six week rollout
period to get these out into the community. Said before we launched we like to get in
touch with places like The Village, make sure everyone is aware. We wouldn't want to
deploy bikes there without business owners or business operators knowing. They said
that they wanted to make sure it was really going to be successful when we do launch,
so if there is anything -- any concerns from any of the communities, we would be okay
to delay that if needed to make sure that, you know, all of it comes together in a nice
way and there was a quote from Council Member Cavener saying support from the
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highway district is, obviously, I think a key, because it's their roadway. The other piece
that I would be interested to know about and we talked about from the Transportation
Commission is the feedback from our school districts. They are, obviously, a very large
partner with our community and make sure this isn't something that they feel now have
to figure and adjust to support. To me that would be really beneficial to know where -- to
know that when I want to make a decision and their response was absolutely. So, we
incorporated some of those things into our agreement with Lime and now they are
called Lime -- they are Limebike and they were required to abide by all city, county and
state laws, ordinances, any rules or requirements that would be put in place. They
could use city property to operate these, as long as it didn't adversely affect city
property, didn't adversely effect the property of any third parties, didn't -- didn't inhibit
pedestrian or vehicular movement within the city and public rights of way and not create
any conditions that are a threat to public safety or security. The city at its own discretion
could support the bike sharing program by helping them with either the solid bike racks
or painted locations for parking of these bikes and, then, also working with -- and we
can work with them with other private entities to help find locations to park these safely.
Also the city is supposed to have its own unlock code, so that if they are placed
improperly the city could remove them immediately if they are blocking driveways,
sidewalks, handicap ADA access points, things like that. And, then, Lime was to secure
all the licenses necessary -- like with ACHD prior to operation. As of today they haven't
done any of those things and that's been the concern we have expressed to them, that
they had made these commitments in our agreement to do those things and they
haven't done that and the complaints that the city has been receiving in light of that
have been exactly what these were meant to address. They are putting -- parked by the
people leaving them out from Lime to rent on sidewalks obstructing traffic -- or
obstructing pedestrian traffic on the sidewalk, obstructing ADA access on sidewalks. In
front of businesses that didn't want them on their property. The first day -- they
launched this last Thursday, the 27th. The Village made contact with the city, because
they were taking them there -- again, no permission, no contact, no discussion with
them previously. We met today with ACHD. They do not have a license agreement.
They talked to ACHD twice this year very early on, approximately the same time they
spoke to the city and, then, came back in August, never engaged ACHD with any type of
discussion about an agreement. They did engage today after our conversation. ACHD
reached out back to them. So, we are seeing a lot of issues that we have tried to
address in our agreement up front and we have asked Lime to pause on continuing this
rollout until they commit to doing the things and do the things they actually had said they
would and that our agreement contemplated up front. You can't park these on the
sidewalk. You can't drive them on the sidewalk. And that's where they seem to be
ending up. We are very concerned about -- about disability access on our streets and
sidewalks. Again, the same thing in the parks. We have received a number of
complaints in the parks about bad behavior and I recognize that they don't completely
control the behavior of people that rent these devices, but without any public education
or outreach, again, there is a concern out there how they are being used and, then,
again, where they are being left. I know we have had a number of internal
conversations. I know Chief Lavey has been part of those and Lieutenant Colaianni, so
police have -- have their own opinions about trying to deal with these. ACHD has been
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removing them if they -- if they see them while they are out and about doing their
business and they find them to be obstructing sidewalks or obstructing disability access
points, they will just remove them and take them. When we met today with ITD, ITD
said, again, they -- they don't prohibit them on the roadway, but if they are left on the
roadway or adjacent to the roadway, they will remove them as well. So, again, we
wanted to make this successful. I think from the staff side we have tried to work with
Lime to make them successful and we have been getting resistance or really
noncommittal on trying to get these things accomplished. They have agreed to a lower
rollout, but, again, some of these other issues still haven't gone away and so we do
have some concerns and wanted to both make you all aware of it and, then, also seek
your direction what you would like us to do. I know there is a Lime representative in the
audience as well tonight if you wanted to hear from him. Those are most of the
concerns. I don't know if the police have additional ones they would like to add. I think I
have covered the majority of the ones that we received, both at my office, as well as the
Mayor's office.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I just want to mention that after Lime came to town, I signed up
as a contractor with Lime to pick up, charge overnight, and redeploy their scooters. So,
given that, I'm happy to be a resource for information as to the processes and whatnot,
but I'm going to stay out of any conversation about whether to exercise any of the
provisions of the MOU or anything like that.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Chief, did you want to add anything?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I do have a few other words to add. Since Thursday
morning Lime has been the topic of our conversations and has been inundating us with
complaints. It has been an absolute chaotic nightmare. The frustrating thing for me is
that no one reached out to the police department and said, hey, what sort of impact
would this have on our city or what would be the unintended consequences or even ask
what the legal requirements were for this. 11:27 on September 27 we get a phone call,
voicemail from Lime that says, hey, I would like to introduce myself and talk to you about
the Lime program that they just implemented three and a half hours ago. We have
been chasing Lime complaints on abandoned property, vandalism, broken Lime
scooters, Lime scooter races, Lime scooter races in our parks, inundated with
complaints about Lime scooters in Settlers Park, in Kleiner Park -- I don't even want to
talk about the complaints we got from The Village. He was quite frustrated. Just
yesterday we got another complaint where someone was trying to sell a Limebike on
eBay. I went back and read the Council minutes from March 27th. Everything that was
mentioned to us -- everything that was promised to us has not happened yet. We need
to do something. We needed -- well, my opinion is we need to do a cease and desist.
We need to stop and we need to educate Lime about what they legally can and can't do.
We need to educate our citizens what they can and can't do. What the expectations
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are. Because even today when we were having a discussion about talking about where
you can deploy these scooters or bikes is only half the problem. The other half of the
problem is where people are leaving them. This was very mixed up in how it was
deployed, very chaotic on how it was deployed and the police department is absolutely
opposed to it currently as it stands. Now, we are not opposed to the ride sharing. We
think it's an interesting concept. But, boy, it sure started off on the wrong foot and it's
soured a lot of people in this community. So, I stand for any questions. But, yes, I did
have some additional comments.
De Weerd: Well, it's a good thing you didn't have a real opinion on it. Council, any
questions?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Chief, so a cease and desist and, then, what? How
much time would you foresee needed to roll this out correctly, if we could stop, because
it sounds like a pause is not going to work for our are already overworked and
understaffed police.
Lavey: You're right. Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, I don't know if I can
estimate a timeline. I think you just got to get people in a room and you need to have
that dialogue and that you have to take action upon what that dialogue is and that -- that
cease and desist -- or that redeployment has to be longer than three days. You have to
get people in a room to sit and talk about what the expectations are, what the -- what
the marketing plan is going to be and, then, you have to educate the public and that
doesn't take a whole lot of time, but it takes everybody in the room to discuss it and to
put that information out. I know that there has been a lot of misinformation out there
about what they can and can't do with them, about who can and can't ride them and that
information needs to be given to our citizens, so we know what to -- what to expect. I
think is a really cool concept, but currently it is not working in this city.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Chief, since you just went through the minutes recently, I recall very clearly
when we were having this conversation with Lime to -- that they would come up with a
real basic list of exactly what you just said, who can ride, how to ride, where to ride and
that was supposed to be part of either the sign-up or when you -- when you went to rent
the vehicle it would show the rider that right there, so that they would have some kind of
idea. And I haven't ridden one. Is that there, Councilman Palmer?
Palmer: Madam Mayor.
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Yeah. As soon as you sign up there is a thing that says you have to be 18, you
have to wear a helmet, you can't ride on the sidewalk -- there is a whole list of things.
Obviously, you can ignore them, but they are there.
De Weerd: And I -- and I understand that Limebike is not the only program out there
and if we want to do this we want to do it right. Certainly -- I think there was a lot of
support from this Council in -- in the concept and -- and a real interest and willingness to
work with Lime to roll out their program, but we haven't really had very good
communication.
Lavey: And, Madam Mayor, I guess that's a perfect example is that we use -- we use
Limebike because Limebike are here. Actually, the Lime scooters. But Limebike is
here. It's the concept. It's not necessarily the company. And so I don't want to direct all
that toward Limebike. However, how it was deployed does go directly to -- to the
company. Perfect example on the helmet. No one's going to take a helmet to rent
these. No one carries a helmet around on the sidewalk with them and there is no legal
requirement that requires them to have a helmet. That's a company policy. So, I think
they put that in there to try to minimize liability, but there is no legal requirement that
they have to have a helmet.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Chief, maybe not -- know when there might just be one guy that randomly just
carries a helmet around with him to Council meetings and -- sorry.
Lavey: Was that a question?
Milam: I'm letting you know there is one --
Lavey: Yeah. I'm not saying that --
Milam: He's here.
Lavey: The one guy.
De Weerd: He's probably from Lime, too.
Lavey: Yeah. One out of 600,000 in the valley, he has it. Thank you.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
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Bernt: Madam Mayor. Thanks, chief. I -- just more of a comment. I'm actually really
surprised, you know, was floored that they didn't contact the ACHD. That's actually
pretty surprising. I mean I don't -- I don't see how they could continue without an
agreement with -- or at least some type of licensing agreement or an MOU or something
with -- with ACHD. How do they expect to ride on the roads and they don't even talk to
the guys who own the roads.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, it's unique -- or that's a good question. We
are a little unique because of the highway district.
Bernt: Right.
Lavey: We don't control our sidewalks.
Bernt: No. Exactly.
Lavey: We have some control of the sidewalks, some policing of the sidewalks, but,
yeah, it's controlled by ACHD, so it makes it a little bit more unique in this area than it
may have perhaps across the United States, but, yeah, there has been some -- there
has been some serious complaints -- ADA complaints and I can tell you that's one area
you do not want to mess with. If they are blocking the sidewalks for any way
whatsoever, they need to be immediately removed, because Title 6 violations are -- are
not fun.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
Lavey: And it also affects any grants that any entity gets if we get those complaints
against us.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, follow up. I -- you know, that -- in -- when they first came and
presented to us I was actually quite supportive. I think it's an interesting concept. I
hope that we can get, you know, the -- the local stakeholders together so we can figure
this out, maybe learn what we did wrong and what they did wrong and, then, when they
come back maybe in the spring or when it gets a little warmer again we can do a better
job with it, but there has to be something we can do to make it so that works for
everyone, because there are -- there are some complaints, but I believe there is less --
there is -- there is some folks that are having some fun with them, so -- and we have to
strike a balance somehow, in my opinion.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, I guess the -- the last thing I ever want to do
is -- is create more laws and create more ordinances, but if you don't have an ordinance
guiding this, then, they make their own rules and we see what happens then.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, it sounds like the -- that Lime has a representative here.
Would you like to hear from them?
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Bernt: Sure.
De Weerd: I'm assuming it's the guy with the lime colored helmet. No. Hey. Well, hi,
Josh. Don't even recognize him without his beard.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just a comment and maybe a preface to some of your remarks. It sounds like
there is -- there is clearly shared concern in a company like yours in any community
lives and dies with the success or challenges with its rollout, right, and it can be wildly
beneficial or very problematic and if the request might be -- it might not even need a
cease and desist, but a voluntary termination of the agreement allows one to step back,
regroup, whether that takes two weeks or two months and, you know, come hand-in-
hand with ACHD, the school district, law enforcement and see if there is some new
teeth in terms that everyone can agree to and comply with for a -- kind of a number 2.0.
Kindall: Yeah. Absolutely.
Borton: -- if that's possible and it would be, obviously, a voluntary and immediate
termination of the current agreement to allow all that to get sorted out.
Kindall: Okay.
De Weerd: If I could have you state your name and address. Thank you.
Kindall: Yeah. Aaron Kindall. I'm the ops manager for Limebike here in Boise and
Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you, Aaron.
Kindall: You're welcome. Madam Mayor and Council, thank you. I do want to
recognize that there have been some missteps probably through this entire process.
We have learned a lot on our side, but I can say that my team is -- conveys to me that
they have pledged to support -- to collaborate and have worked to collaborate with not
only members in this room, but also members of ACHD. I know they have reached out
to Director Wong on several occasions and been unsuccessful in connecting with him
on some levels. We have talked a lot about it -- about the negatives tonight. I think we
have heard a lot of that, but I also want to speak out and say that there has been a lot of
positives, which just in that few -- three short days our ridership numbers rivaled that
have some of our major metropolitan partners in and around the area in the northwest
and so we -- we do know that it's something that is intriguing and exciting to -- to the
area. I think Meridian is -- is definitely ready for something like this and I can tell you I
have had the opportunity to meet with Attorney Nary and Chief of Staff Robert Simison
over the last couple of days and have pledged my support as local kind of boots on the
ground to come back, kind of to square one and really do the outreach that we promised
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that we would do with the community as far as working with local businesses on coming
up with ways that we can create designated hubs and parking locations for the scooters,
to educate the community, our rider. In fact, we are planning on doing one this Saturday
at Centennial Park from 11:00 to 3:00 where we will have myself and members of my
team out there with a couple of scooters and walking people through the app, showing
them how to safely unlock, to ride, to dock and so on and so forth. On top of that, we
have -- we have also made -- we have made some contacts with members of The
Village. I have spoken to the operations manager there and we are working on coming
up with a collaborative approach to also design and designate spots hubs and spots for
the scooters on The Village campus there to protect the aesthetic and keep walkways
clear as far as that goes. But, yeah, outside of that I mean -- I think -- I think the city --
not just Meridian, but, obviously, Boise is ready for something like this. I think we have
the population and the interest of support that and I think we want to make sure it's done
the right way. To your comment as far as kind of going back to square one, I will say
that as of today we have pulled a hundred percent of those scooters off the streets of
Meridian as we kind of go back and reevaluate how things went and how we can do
things a little bit differently and continue to kind of partnership -- partner with -- with the
staff here tonight, as well as local businesses. As part of that effort I also reached out to
our Downtown Business Association contact today. Wasn't successful in contacting him
or getting in touch with him today to work something out, but a pledge to come down
and introduce myself and see what we can do to kind of smooth everything over and
make this work for the community. I don't know if you have any questions.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council? It sounds like we appreciate the opportunity
for you to dial it back and -- and actually plan and get back on track to what we heard
when you came and presented in front of Council. Working together we can try and --
and figure it out and learn from your deployment what not to do and work on how we
can really see these be used in the manner that it has been anticipated. I do think that
for the most part everyone was up here excited about the concept, interested to hear
more and maybe a little bit surprised when we didn't hear back from you, then, all of a
sudden it shows up on our streets and --
Kindall: Absolutely. And I can't speak to what necessarily happened prior to me coming
on board with the company, alls I can tell you is that from this moment forward we -- we
want to take a different approach and make this work and do it the right way, so --
De Weerd: Thank you, Aaron. That would be great.
Kindall: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I -- if you can't get in front of Director Wong or anyone from ACHD, just, please,
reach out, we will make sure that happens for you.
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Kindall: Okay. Yeah. We have been having some challenges there, but I would -- I
would definitely --
Bernt: Just reach out to us, we will make sure it happens.
Kindall: Excellent.
De Weerd: I think you have gotten their attention.
Kindall: Yeah. Probably not in the manner that we had hoped to, but we are on their
radar.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Is the intent that the -- they will remain off the streets until you kind of go back
and -- with ACHD and our law enforcement and have those discussions, come back and
perhaps present what might be the new terms and conditions?
Kindall: Yeah. I think we -- well, I think we introduced a plan of action or an action plan
to Mr. Simison last night. We haven't heard back on that, but the -- I think the approach
in that initial action plan was to scale everything back, pull everything off the streets
and, then, come back with a softer deployment as soon as possibly this Friday. I'm not
sure if that's wise at this point, until we can --
De Weerd: No.
Kindall: -- educate and get before -- like I said earlier, the local businesses and work on
some partnerships and collaboration there.
Borton: Sure. Madam Mayor? It might be -- it might be unwise and just my opinion -- I
think some of the mistakes we made -- I was supportive of it, but I think our mistakes
were not -- you know, not knowing what we didn't know and really compelling you to
have that outreach before even a contract was signed. I don't think we appreciated the
magnitude of the challenges this could create, even with good intentions.
Kindall: Yeah. Absolutely.
Borton: So, we missed it ourselves, which gives us extra concern and reason to pause
and hope that you might continue to pause deployment really until you have got all
these answers and you might get an answer pretty quick, but --
Kindall: Yeah.
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Borton: -- but you take a big risk trying to roll it out again in the midst of solving
problems.
Kindall: Sure. Yeah. I think that one of the things that we do want to do when we
decide to redeploy is we will go with a scaled back version of that. I know we hit pretty
hard with nearly 300 scooters in just a few short days, so the approach on a redeploy
would be to back off somewhat and come in a little bit slower, more phased approach
as well.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, did you get them all back?
Kindall: All but --
Milam: The eBay one.
Kindall: All but -- we lost that one I'm pretty sure and there is a couple that we are still
tracking down. So, we have got about 99.9 percent of them in our possession.
De Weerd: So, you weren't the highest bid.
Kindall: No. I -- to be honest with you, I didn't know eBay still existed, so --
Milam: Madam Mayor? I did want to say I -- I have received probably equal number of
negative and positive responses personally and so it is -- it is a great program and
people are really enjoying it, but the -- the negative -- the impact of the negative
outweighs the positive, so although I feel it's a -- it is a great program and I hope that
you are able to -- we are able to work together and figure out a way to bring it back and
phase it the way that it was supposed to be done in the first place -- I mean it sounds
like we may have to create an ordinance regarding the laws of riding these things and --
and I think working with our law enforcement is number one.
Kindall: Absolutely.
Milam: Thank you for being here.
Kindall: You're welcome. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Kindall: You're welcome.
De Weerd: We appreciate you being here.
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Kindall: Yeah. Have a good evening.
De Weerd: Thank you. Robert.
Simison: Madam Mayor, Council, just because I have been the one that's been -- had a
lot of conversations with -- with these individuals -- at the request of ACHD I did reach
out to them on Friday and ask that they cease and get their -- move the scooters off of
the ACHD right of way, sidewalks, and I want to give Aaron and Lime credit, they have
taken steps incrementally to get back -- I think in three separate conversations as late
as 5:00 o'clock today with someone else other than Aaron with the company I again
asked them to stop and let's work together to try to roll this out. That conversation has
not produced the answer that I believe the Council is somewhere implying from this
conversation and I don't know that Aaron has the ability to make that call, honestly, but I
also want to say I am in conversations with another company that would like to deploy
here as soon as possible and they are watching tonight and they are looking at what
action you take that will determine probably how they move forward, you know, so if you
like the 300 scooters that you saw in the community on Friday and you want to see
another two to three hundred in the community in the next couple weeks, I think that
sitting here and doing -- doing nothing or not giving clear direction and getting Lime's
buy off will make it difficult for me to work with them to get the desired result that Council
wants to see moving forward. So, I just want to throw that out there, that that's out there
and I will answer any questions you have. I reiterate the conversations have been had
with ACHD, ITD, and the police department, that putting a stop to this for right now
would be in the best interest while we try to evaluate -- and we want to work with them.
We do. I do. You know, I don't want to ride them, because I'm scared, but I'm happy
answering questions.
De Weerd: Any questions for Robert? Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Robert, would it be possible -- so if we need so many
people at the table to make this work, would it be possible to get a report back prior to a
relaunch, because especially to Councilman Borton, I feel like we kind of tripped up as
well. We didn't know what to expect, but having left the police out I feel like as a liaison
was on me. So, I feel like we need another report before launch of anyone.
De Weerd: I think that our office can help facilitate the -- the meeting and we can have
it this week. So, we will first pull the -- the different parties together, along with Lime
and we can report back next week at our workshop and ask that Lime not deploy any of
their scooters until then, if that would be the direction of this Council. Okay. Any -- any
final remarks?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, I was just kind of debating what to say, but -- and this
goes above Aaron, but they -- Limebike has not followed through on any of their
promises yet. Not one. So, forgive me that I don't trust them when they say we are
going to pull back and not deploy again until we say it's okay. I think we need to do
something more than voluntarily, but that's purely one person's opinion.
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Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Chief, I hear what you're saying, but -- I don't know. I think that if we ask them
not to deploy and they do deploy, then, it's -- I think, then, they are done. So, I think that
-- I think that's enough to get them to hold off for a bit until we all get to the table and --
and can agree on specific terms, because if that happened I would have no problem --
yes. Yeah. Done with them for good.
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Milam -- and I respect that and so I have to say
what I have to say on record, so they hear that, but they already made a whole lot of
promises that they said they were going to do it and they haven't done. So, we will --
we will see. And also we have another company on October 15th that wants to deploy
as well. So, we absolutely need to wrap our minds around how we want this to appear
in our city, how we want it to work, and we have to put controls on it. Otherwise, they
are the ones that make up the rules and there is still a lot of questions, even on state
code, because if you look at state code it's so far behind technology that we are trying to
figure out how this even fits within the code. Segway, another company that came
about years and years and years ago, had a vision and they went out to every single
state and said this is what our product is, this is what we want to do with it, and they had
incorporated it into state law and so it specifically mentions that in state -- in state code
and Idaho State Code and across the United States, because they did their homework
ahead of time. This is kind of a hybrid between where -- is it a motor vehicle, is it not a
motor vehicle and what requirements you have to have and not have. If law
enforcement is having a hard time figuring out what you can and can't do with this, what
sort of expectations do we have for our citizens? And, then, we wonder why we are
having the problems that we have. I think we really need to take a step back and figure
out is this concept what we want in Meridian? And I think it is. How do we want it to
look and how do we want it to deploy. But we discovered what sort of results we get
when we go quickly and I don't think those are the same results we want to go again.
So, I guess I just need to put that on the record so they hear what our concerns are.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Chief, do you believe that Boise's ordinance addresses
the issues that you're looking at? Is that something we need to take a look at?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Little Roberts, there is -- there is some conflicts
in that with -- with what we would do. One of the areas that -- for an example, in current
city code for Meridian we prohibit bicycles on the sidewalks in downtown core. Bicycles.
As we interpret it right now these scooters we believe under code are prohibited on the
sidewalks. Boise's ordinance will allow them to be on the sidewalks in particular
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incidences and so that -- you couldn't adapt it completely. You would have to sit there
and go what do you want in Meridian, what are you trying to accomplish and look at
that. Now, one of the things that Boise ordinance talks about is you will drive in the bike
lanes. You will drive in the roadways. And, then, it gives some exceptions to it if those
aren't available, well, then, you could be on the sidewalk. So, it wouldn't be a -- a
continuous on the sidewalks. But, then, that's an enforcement issue, then, too. It's like,
okay, is -- is -- are they driving on the sidewalk legally at this point in time or illegally at
this point time and -- and are not going to know and so it's -- it's going to happen. So,
those are just questions that you have to ask. Do you want them on sidewalks and, if
so, change the law. But that's not something that we can determine, we just enforce the
code and make suggestions on what it should say. So, I do think it's a step. I do think it
puts parameters on what they are trying to do, but you may not be able to adopt it
completely. Because what their ordinance is is not necessarily what you may or may
not want for Meridian and I can't say that. That's something only you guys can decide.
Or our citizens.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Madam Mayor. Chief, thank you. Just a point of clarification. And maybe you
can ask -- ask this -- or answer this question. Maybe Bill. But can -- can these
companies deploy without an MOU of any kind? Can they just show up one day and
have it be open for business?
Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, yes, to a degree. They still have to comply
with all federal and state codes. I mean any local codes that we have in place. And so
we currently have state codes that say you can't drive on the sidewalks. We currently
have federal codes that say you can't block, you know, ADA and things like -- so, they
have to comply with those. The MOU only covers them on city-owned property or city
controlled property. But on the sidewalks where they want to deploy them, they have a
-- get a licensing agreement with ACHD or ACHD has to amend that licensing to the City
of Meridian where we could allow that to happen, but, then, it just becomes more
enforcement issues.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? So, I assume that Robert has Aaron's phone
number and we will work on pulling that meeting together. Any -- anything further, Mr.
Nary?
Nary: Maybe one last comment, Mayor and Council. You know, we -- we were trying to
work within the existing code. We don't like to create more laws --
De Weerd: Will you pull that closer?
Nary: Oh, sorry. We try not to create more ordinances and more enforcement tools if
it's not necessary and I think based on what we have seen in the rollout and maybe to
follow up on Council Member Little Roberts' question, Boise -- because of their
greenbelt have a completely different model of how they use these types of devices.
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Bikes as well. And so that's the reason for their ordinance. Now could we use some of
that? Possibly. Again, our number one concern is the public safety and the public
access and that's -- that's not being done currently and that we have to take a very hard
line on to make sure that that isn't going to get impeded. Again, we want to work with
them, we want to make it successful and we were trying not to create a bunch of
ordinances on top of it, if not -- if not necessary, but we will see if we can get something
together quickly and make it successful.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Request to Schedule Public Hearing for November 7, 2018 for
Burlingame Subdivision H-2018-0079 by Yuriy Mukha, Located
at NW Corner of West Cherry Ln. and N Black Cat Rd.
1. Request: Rezone of property from R -4 (18.994 acres) to R -
8; and
2. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 74 single-family
residential building lots and 14 common lots on 18.994 acres
of land in a proposed R -8 zoning district; and
3. Request: Modify an existing Development Agreement to
allow
for additional residential and common lots, to allow for R-8
zoning and to change certain other provisions of the
agreement
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Okay. Item 9 is under Action Items. Our first number, 9-A,
is a request to schedule the public hearing for November 7th on H-2018-0079. Sonya,
is this one yours or Mr. Nary?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this application has requested by the
applicant to be continued to the November 7th hearing in order for the applicant to be
present at the hearing. They were unable to attend this evening.
De Weerd: So, this is a request for a continued public hearing?
Allen: Yes.
Coles: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. If I may jump in and Mr. Nary also can fill in any
gaps here. So, this is unusual. This isn't a traditional public hearing item. There was a
memo in your packet. Our code, Section 11-5A-6G5 requires that when the Planning
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October 2, 2018
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and Zoning Commission is the recommending body, that this Council receive that
recommendation within 45 days. The applicant requested a waiver to that -- or really
didn't request a waiver, they said they waive their right to that requirement and wanted
to schedule for November 7th. The -- our code doesn't allow for such a waiver request.
So, what you have tonight is that agenda item -- that application on your agenda to
meet that code intent, which will, then, allow the applicant to make the request to move
to November 7th and allow the Council to make that determination. So, it's -- it's not a
traditional item and, again, Mr. Nary can fill in any gaps that -- or answer any questions
you might have, but that's why it's listed the way that it is this evening.
De Weerd: And this request is made because the application cannot make any of the
dates in the 45 days?
Coles: Correct. And in order to meet the noticing deadlines, the date that we had
chosen was October 16th, so that we can meet those deadlines. They could not make
that date and so they said we waive our rights to the 45 days, we would like it on
November 7th. We can't just like waive it and, then, schedule for November 7th, the
Council has to see that request, which is why it's listed this evening.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Nary, anything to add?
Nary: Madam Mayor, I think he covered it all.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If there are no questions, I move that grant the request and/or continue the
request for a public hearing to be heard on November 7th, 2018, for H-2018-0079.
Bernt: Second.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to set this to November 7th. Any discussion?
All those in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Public Hearing for Earl Glen Subdivision H-2018-0094 by
Riley Planning Services, Located at 1780 E . McMillan Rd .
1. Request: Two Year Time Extension on the preliminary plat in
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October 2, 2018
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order to obtain the City Engineer’s signature on a final plat
and extend the time to commence the multi-family use as
permitted with the conditional use permit
De Weerd: Okay. Item B is a public hearing on H-2018-0094. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments.
Leonard: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the project before you tonight is a
time extension for a preliminary plat and conditional use permit for Earl Glen
Subdivision. This site consists of 4.65 acres of land, zoned R-8 and R-15, located at
1780 East McMillan Road. In 2015 this property was rezoned and a preliminary plat
and CUP were approved for the construction of 17 single family homes and 16 multi-
family units. A DA was required as a provision of the rezone at the time. In 2017 a one
year time extension was approved by the director on the preliminary plat and CUP. This
request is for a two year time extension on the preliminary plat in order to obtain the city
engineer's signature on the final plat and commence the multi-family residential use as
approved with the CUP. This is the second time extension for this project. As part of
the extension the UDC grants the Council authority to require compliance with the most
current provisions of UDC. Therefore, staff recommends two new conditions of
approval as provisions of the requested time extension as follows: First, future
development shall comply with the design standards in the architectural standards
manual. Second, the applicant shall comply with the Public Works supplemental
specifications and drawings. Staff recommends approval with the conditions listed in
the staff report. With that staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Stephanie. And welcome to the team -- at this level anyway.
Council, any questions? Does the applicant have anything to add? Good evening. If
you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Constantikes: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Penelope Constantikes, Post Office
Box 405, Boise, Idaho. 83701.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Constantikes: Everything that needed to be said probably included in the project letter,
the first slide that was shown, the two white parcels to the north of our site, the applicant
also owns those. So, they are exploring whether to move forward with just Earl Glen as
it is now or incorporate it into a larger scale project. So, there has been some purchase
interest in the parcel and they are just exploring their options for how to best move
forward with this or perhaps the addition parcel. With that I would be happy to answer
any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Constantikes: Thank you.
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De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk?
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We did have one sign up. Kim Kinski indicated
neutral, but did not indicate she wished to testify.
De Weerd: Okay. Seeing -- seeing no Kim, is there anyone else who would like to
provide comment on this item? Okay. Seeing none.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move we close the public hearing on -- what number are we on? 9-B.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move we approve H-2018-0094.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-B. Mr. Clerk, will you call --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: The motion includes the staff recommended new conditions of approval?
Milam: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
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October 2, 2018
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MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing Continued from August 21, 2018 for Bainbridge
Franklin H-2018-0057 by Steve Bainbridge, Located at 2075
and 2155 W. Franklin Rd.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 3.68 acres of land with a
C-G zoning district
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-C has been requested to continue to November 7th. Staff,
can you give us a little history on what the -- why is the request being made?
Allen: Yes, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm actually covering this one for
Josh Beach tonight. The applicant is requesting continuance in order to address the
concerns that were raised by staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission at the
hearing.
De Weerd: Okay. So, they are trying to address those before they come in front of
Council. That would be awesome. Okay. Is there anyone here tonight wishing to
comment on this application? Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I will first go ahead and open this public hearing on H-2018-0057 and Mr.
Bernt.
Bernt: We are not closing?
De Weerd: No.
Milam: No. Just continue it.
De Weerd: You want to continue it.
Bernt: I move, Madam Mayor, that we continue H-2018-0057 to November 7th, 2018.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue 9-C to November 7th. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
D. Public Hearing for San Gorgonio Subdivision H-2018-0092 by
A Team Land Consultants, Located at 200 Rosalyn Ct.
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1. Request: Short Plat consisting of 4 residential building lots
and 1 common lot on 1.23 acres of land in an existing R -8
zoning district
De Weerd: Okay. Public hearing under 9-D is for H-2018-0092. This is for a short plat,
but I guess I will just talk about process before we get into this first public hearing. Staff
generally, as the first to present, they give background information regarding the
application that is in front of Council for a decision. Then the applicant has up to ten
minutes to talk about anything in addition to what staff has presented and, then, we get
into the public testimony area. Public testimony has a three minute opportunity to share
your comments regarding the application and if you are in support or opposed and at
the end the applicant does have the final word. At that time we ask that the applicant
follows up on any -- any questions that might have been raised through public testimony
and provide any additional information. At that point, if the applicant has answered all
the questions, Council will ask questions of staff, applicant, or perhaps someone that
provided testimony that they would like a little further detail from. That is our process
that we follow with our public hearings and in particular for land use and city ordinances
and I do want to note that prior to the Council meeting tonight the Council has an
opportunity to review all the materials in their packet. That includes staff reports,
agency comments, Planning and Zoning hearings, et cetera, and any testimony that
comes in its written form.
De Weerd: So, with that I will ask for staff comments on Item 9-D.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the next application before you is a
request for a short plat. This site consists of 1.23 acres of land. It's zoned R-8, located
east of South Meridian Road, midway between Overland and Victory Roads, at 200
East Rosalyn Court. In 2005 this property was annexed and a preliminary plat and final
plat was approved for Larkspur Subdivision No. 2, consisting of 47 single family
residential building lots and five common lots on 10.3 acres of land. The
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for this property is low density
residential, which is three or fewer units per acre. The proposed short plat consists of
four building lots on 1.23 acres of land in the R-8 zoning district and is a resubdivision of
Lot 9, Block 4, of Larkspur Subdivision No. 2. The existing home will remain on a lot in
the proposed subdivision and will continue to have direct access via Rosalyn Drive.
The other three lots will be accessed by a common driveway from Rosalyn. Written
testimony has been received from Steve Arnold, the applicant's representative. He is in
agreement with the staff report. Staff is recommending approval with the conditions in
the report. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sonya. Any questions for staff at this time? Okay. Is the
applicant here this evening? Good evening.
Constantikes: Penelope Constantikes, Post Office Box 405, Boise, Idaho. 83701. I'm
here for Steve Arnold this evening. He is at a meeting north of here and was unable to
attend. So, two neighbors attended the neighborhood meeting. Steve conveyed to me
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that they seemed to be excited by the project. The applicant and property owner have
both reviewed the staff report and are in agreement and are happy to comply with all the
conditions of approval. With that I would be happy to answer questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for the applicant? Thank you.
Constantikes: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, were there any signed up to provide testimony?
Coles There are not.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone who wishes to make comment on this application?
Okay. Seeing none, Council.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-D.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move we approve H-2018-0092 with all staff and applicant comments.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-D. If there is no
discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
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E. Public Hearing for Owyhee High School (H-2018-0075) by West
Ada School District, Located at 7020 W. Ustick Rd .
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 108.76 Acres of Land
with
an R -8 Zoning District; and
2. Request: Conditional Use Permit for an education institution
high school) in an R -8 zoning, lighted fields and an outdoor
speaker system within and adjoining a residential district, the
generation of vehicular trips per day in excess of 1,500,
proposed access to a collector street and there is not a safe,
separate pedestrian and bikeway access between the
neighborhood and the school site
De Weerd: Item 9-E is a public hearing on H-2018-0075. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before
you is a request for annexation and zoning and a conditional use permit for the Owyhee
High School. This application is coming forward to you tonight with a recommendation
of denial from the staff and the Planning and Zoning Commission and staff will go into
the reasons why later in my presentation. This site consists of 108.76 acres of land. It's
zoned RUT in Ada county and is located west of North McDermott Road on the north
side of West Ustick Road at 7020 West Ustick Road. The Comprehensive Plan future
land use map designation for this property is medium density residential and it does
have a school site designated on the future land use map in this general area. The
applicant is requesting approval to annex and zone a total of 108.76 acres of land,
consisting of three parcels from the RUT zoning district in Ada county to the R-8 zoning
district in the city, consistent with the medium density residential future land use map
designation. A conditional use permit is requested for the following: An educational
facility, a High School, in an R-8 zoning district, lighted fields and an outdoor speaker
system adjoining and within a residential district, the generation of vehicle trips per day
in excess of 1,500 and access proposed from a collector street and there is not safe,
separate pedestrian and bike way access between the neighborhood and the school
site in accordance with UDC Table 11-2A2 and the specific use standards listed in 11-4-
3-14, education institution, a conceptual development plan was submitted as shown that
demonstrates how the overall site is proposed to develop with 246,390 square feet high
school to serve 1,800 students on approximately 66 acres of land in the central portion
of the site with 15.7 acres reserved for a future elementary school at the north end of
the site and future resident development proposed on the 11.63 acres at the south end
of the site and 15.43 acres on the east side of the site, which is the Spriggel parcel. So,
just to show you about where that's at, the Spriggel parcel is right here. That area --
that piece of land is the annexation path for the school property and there is no
development proposed on that parcel, it's solely being annexed for the annexation path
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for the school. The northern portion of the property right here is where they elementary
schools site is proposed and down here on the south is the future residential area that's
depicted on their concept plan here. Conceptual building elevations were submitted for
the high school as shown. The structure is proposed to be divided between one and
two stories. Building materials are proposed to consist of integral colored structural
CMU and CMU veneer and smooth and split faced finish with free finished metal panel
accent panels. The roof is Mosol membrane roofing, concealed by a combination of
parapet walls and mansard roof finished with standing seam metal roofing. The staff
recommendation of denial of the annexation and consequently the conditional use
permit was for the following reasons. The fire and police department do not support a
single public access to the site as proposed for life safety reasons due to the size of the
project, anticipated occupancy of the high school and future elementary school, traffic
generated from sporting events and the need for traffic to be able to enter and leave the
site efficiently and quickly, especially in the event of an emergency. In an emergency
situation the single access could be blocked and there would be no other way in or out
of the site. The fire department cannot meet response time requirements for this
development without another fire station being constructed closer to this site. Ada
county emergency services would also have extended response times to this site.
Current resources would not be adequate to supply service for this project. The police
department response times to this site are estimated to be beyond the average
response times recorded by Ada county. To mitigate the extended response time an
SRO officer and office would need to be provided at the school. And I'm going to just
take a moment here and -- and that's not going to work. Give me just a second here.
Oh, there it is. So, here is the Google Earth view of the property. As you can see this is
very much a rural area. There is no development of urban services around this
property. It's currently a dairy farm and there is agricultural land surrounding it. Safe
pedestrian and bicycle access to the school site does not exist, because the property is
a rural area. The inclusion of the Spriggel parcel within the annexation boundary solely
for the purpose of providing an annexation path for the school without that parcel being
part of the development application promotes leap frog development and creates
sprawl, which isn't good planning and doesn't allow for efficient provision of city services
and infrastructure to be constructed. It also creates a Swiss cheese issue for the police
department in that only the north half of Ustick Road and the west half of McDermott
Road would be in the city and the surrounding roadway would be in the county, which
would require the Ada County Sheriff's Department to service the unincorporated land
and roadway in between. There is approximately 2,500 acres west of Ten Mile Road to
McDermott Road north of I-84 that is yet to be annexed into the city and developed.
Right here you can see the colored areas of the annexed area in the city and the white
areas are still in the county. The red dot is where the subject property is located.
Providing city services to this property is not an efficient provision of services and
creates confusion on service boundaries. No other properties have been annexed on
the west side of McDermott Road. In fact, a project to the north of this site, Copper
Brick Subdivision, was denied a couple of years ago by Council based on Council's
decision that it was not in the best interest of the city to annex the property at that time
based on comments from the public hearings. Reasons for denial discussed at the
hearing were that the Council wanted the city to develop from the inside out, rather than
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the outside in and concern that stretching city services out west of McDermott would
take away services to existing residents and open up another square mile for
development. Nothing in this area has changed since that time, except that many more
developments have been approved and developed within the city that further impact the
provision of city services. Annexation of the school site would stretch services even
further. Because the school site doesn't extend all the way south to West Ustick Road
and east to McDermott Road, a street buffer landscaping and sidewalks are not
proposed along these arterial streets. Additionally, because the elementary school site
is not proposed to develop at this time, the north-south collector street is not proposed
to extend to the north boundary, which would create a gap in the collector street if the
property to the north of the annexation area develops. Annexation of the subject
property would create a domino effect for adjacent properties to request annexation and
further the sprawl and Swiss cheese issue experienced by the police department when
responding to calls. The city is already receiving inquiries from parties interested in
developing land in the area west of McDermott near the school site. The applicant's
conceptual development plan does not contemplate ITD's local street access plan for
the properties that currently have access via McDermott Road that will be impacted by
the extension of State Highway 16. Staff does recommend another high school is very
much needed in north Meridian. Staff does not feel it's in the best interest in the city to
annex the property for development at this time point. At some point in the future when
the city boundaries expand more fully to this area it would be logical to annex and
develop a school on this property, but with the life safety issues noted by the police and
fire departments staff does not feel it's in the best interest of the city to annex and
develop this property at this time. At this time I will go through the Commission --
summary of the Commission hearing. Again, the Commission did recommend denial of
these applications. Those that testified in favor of the application were Eric Exline --
Exline, chief communication office -- excuse me -- officer of West Ada School District,
the applicant. Matthew Adams, The Land Group, the applicant's representative. Ed
Klopfenstein, Mark Freeman, Folley Freeman, counsel for the West Ada School District.
Eric Thies, president of the West Ada Education Association, and Mike Vulttonet --
excuse me very much if I mispronounce your name. In opposition was Jeffrey Wardle,
Spink Butler, counsel for Boise Hunter Homes and Woodside Avenue Investors and
commenting was David Ferdinand, Glen Baum, Jim Hunter, Boise Hunter Homes and
Paul Moore. Written testimony was received from Jeffrey Wardle, Spink Butler, Mark
Freeman from Folley Freeman and Gerald Flower. Key issues of discussion was the
need for a new high school to serve area residents as Rocky Mountain High School is
over capacity. Access to the Woodside Avenue Investor, Boise Hunter Homes property
to the east -- and I will just flip back here real quick. This is the Woodside property right
here. And only one point of public access to and from the site and the associated life
safety concerns. Key issues of discussion by the Commission were as follows: The
need for a secondary public access to the site. Other properties owned by the school
district that would -- that might be more suitable for the development of a high school
that are not on the city's outer fringe. The Swiss cheese effective of annexing this
property and creating more sprawl. Provision of access to the Woodside Avenue
Investor property to the east. Desire for the project to not be delayed and move forward
to Council by the applicant addresses the issues noted in the draft conditions of
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approval. And just a side note. Staff is -- was always recommending denial of this
project, but staff did prepare some draft conditions of approval just for talking points if
the Commission and Council chose to go forward with a positive recommendation and
approval of this project. They are only draft. They need to be revisited if the Council
decides to approve this project tonight. So, staff would be recommending a
continuance if that is the case, so just a side note on those draft conditions. They really
aren't conditions, because staff is recommending denial. Subsequently, the
Commission. Recommendation of this -- of denial stated by the Commission were
based on the following: The patchwork of annexation it will provide if this property is
annexed. No secondary public access, particularly to McMillan Road with a signal, and
safety concerns noted by the police and fire department. Written testimony since the
Commission hearing. There have been many, many letters of testimony, the majority of
which are in support, but there are some against and, then, there was a memo from
Gary Allen and Jeffrey Bower, Givens Pursley, that included a memo of understanding
submitted from Heartland Homes Property Management, LLC, committing to the
extension of a north-south collector street from the north boundary of the school site to
McMillan Road, contingent upon annexation of the property to the north. While that
would solve the -- the access issues for this site, staff does have some strong concerns
about that. It doesn't only concern the extension of the road, extension of city services,
water and sewer mains would be required within that roadway as well. So, there would
be substantial cost associated with that, as well as pedestrian facilities along that street
and this is not a consent from the property owner, this is from -- to my understanding the
potential developer of the site and -- and this would be solely contingent upon
annexation of this property to the north of this property out to McMillan Road, in which
the city does not even have a development application at this time. Staff did meet with
them today for a pre-application meeting to discuss the possibility of them submitting an
application and going forward with this, but just -- just so the Council knows where we
are at on that. That's the situation. And, then, we do have a video for you tonight from
our police and fire department that I would like to show here.
(Video played.)
Allen: Madam Mayor, that will conclude staff's presentation. Staff will stand for any
questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions at this time for staff?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Sonya, could you show us on the map where the closest
services for connecting water and sewer would be to this property?
Allen: Mr. Stewart here can respond to that.
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October 2, 2018
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Little Roberts: Okay. Thank you.
Stewart: So, the closest sewer service at this point is just to the north off this page.
There is a lift station. A main trunk line would have to be constructed about 1,500 feet
to get to a point where it could come off this way and come into the northern portion of
the property. Water service connection is probably almost another quarter to a half a
mile to the east on Ustick Road.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Does the fact that it's not close cause an issue, given that the applicant will be
the ones paying for that?
Stewart: Not necessarily. I mean the -- the services -- we have master planned for
those services to be put into place. The reality of it is they do currently exist quite a
ways from the site and will be a significant expense in bringing those services to the --
to the site. Water and sewer service can be, if they are done properly, we can provide
the flows that are required on the water side and also the sewer flow that is necessary.
My concern with this -- probably the most significant concern I have is there has been
some desire expressed by the applicant to enter into a reimbursement agreement to get
reimbursed for those costs. That's something that we don't typically do at the City of
Meridian. In fact, we have had very similar requests -- almost identical requests from
some of our development community and we have always told them no, because this is
what's contemplated it in the master plan and if you want to build this far out this is what
-- this is the cost that you incur. You -- you end up getting cheap land out here, but it
comes -- there is a reason it's cheap and that's because it comes -- no sewer service,
no water service come at a pretty steep cost.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions at this time? Okay. Is the applicant here?
G.Allen: Everybody ready? Are you ready, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Hi, Gary. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
G.Allen: All right. Thank you very much. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my
name is Gary Allen. I'm with the Givens Pursley law firm. My work address is 601 West
Bannock in Boise and I'm representing the West Ada School District. I'm very excited to
be here tonight to talk with you about the Owyhee High School. We have asked for a
little extra time for our presentation given the importance of the issue and somewhat
complex issues. So, hopefully, if we can accommodate 20 to 30 minutes.
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De Weerd: Council, we have never had that kind of request before. I will give you 15.
G.Allen: Okay.
De Weerd: Or extend it up to 15.
G.Allen: All right.
De Weerd: Council, any issues with that?
G.Allen: Okay. Well, I'm sure this will all come out in the wash as we go. So, what we
would like to cover tonight -- one is a little bit of information about why the school is
needed now and in this location. Why this is a community asset and, then, some of the
specific issues that were raised. Number one, we disagree that this is a patchwork
annexation. Secondly, to discuss the second public road, which we think is the major
concern of the police and fire. The safe routes to school issue and how we propose to
resolve that. The Woodside Investors access issue and, then, the conditions of
approval that we have proposed. Let me begin by introducing Eric Exline from the
school district to talk a little bit about the need and location of this project.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I mean do whatever you would like with your time. I -- I don't think any of us
have any doubt whatsoever of the need. I'm most interested in -- in the latter things that
you mentioned, the understanding -- your remedies to the -- to the concerns that have
been brought up. By all means, you know, preach to the choir about the need for this
school, but -- you know, the time is yours, but I would recommend focusing on what to
do with all the concerns.
G.Allen: We have got less time than we expected, maybe I will just cover this very
quickly and get into the meat of the land use issues.
De Weerd: Thank you, Eric. That's the shortest presentation I have heard you give.
G.Allen: All right. So, we want to make sure the Council understood that the kind of
issues that are being discussed here, particularly as to the location of the school, were
carefully considered by the school district as they made this site location decision. So,
I'm showing you some information from the bond that was issued and -- I mean you're
well aware that the surrounding high schools are dramatically overcrowded and that
there is a significant need for this. The location is chosen, as all of the high school
locations are, to be three to four miles away from the nearest one. This one is a little
closer than they would -- would really like, actually, so the school -- school district's
committee actually of 54 community members looked at this closely, chose this site,
because it's in about the right location, it's in a place where growth can grow to it and
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that's what you want to do with your public facilities and -- and so that was a very
important consideration. It was specifically discussed in terms of the bond that this
would be in this location, it would be opened by fall 2020 and it would be on the north
side of Ustick just west of McDermott and that design work was underway to build this
site in this location. So, the school district's been talking about this location for months,
as many of you are probably aware. Again, here is more materials talking about how
the site was selected and where it would go. I think you all know that is very important
for this part of town to have this school and to provide -- it will improve the values
around here and -- and do all of the things that you want from a public school. So, let's
dive into the issues. First about patchwork annexation. We disagree that this is
patchwork. It's in the city's area of impact. It's marked as a school site in the
Comprehensive Plan. The zoning is permitted by the Comprehensive Plan. It's
contiguous with the city limits with the Spriggel parcel and, again, the site was carefully
assessed by the planning committee to be in the right place at the right time for a new
school. You don't plan a couple years ahead for a high school. You plan for decades.
Meridian High School has been in your city for over a hundred years and this school will
be an asset like that. You can't be short sighted when you site a piece of property like
this. Here is where your city boundaries are now. That's -- it's a logical extension of
that. This will fill in quickly. You will be surprised how quickly this high school is
surrounded by development. You have got 14,000 units coming online in your city. We
are going to need this high school to serve them. There is no in-fill site that works for
this. All right. Let's talk about the second public road. We think this is the really major
issue that we -- that -- that was raised with substance. We agree with everything we
heard in that very nice video from the police and fire. I have never seen anything quite
like that at a -- at a hearing like this. So, it was -- you know, that was -- that was well
done. We agree that -- that there should be a second public access. Now, the district is
providing an access all the way from its site down to Ustick, that's the first access, and
they build the mid mile collector all the way along there. The question is this spot to the
north. Obviously, the school district doesn't control that. So, how do we gain that
access? Well, the district listened and went out and made a -- reached an agreement
with the developer of the property Trilogy -- there is a representative here tonight, Bob
Taunton, is going to talk about this and in this agreement what Trilogy has done is they
said we are going to seek annexation. You hear that that first they -- they had their first
meeting with the staff this morning. We heard that went quite well and there were a lot
of -- of very interesting and helpful things discussed there. Trilogy has agreed to build
the mid mile collector and my understanding is that includes the pedestrian facilities --
obviously they will have to bring the utilities that serve their development in whatever --
in the way that the city requires and that this all has to be done by completion of the
high school. And, then, on top of that Trilogy has agreed to provide a fire station site,
which I understand the fire department is pretty excited about, in order to help alleviate
the concerns about the level of service that can be provided out here, even though it
really isn't too bad as -- as it stands now. This addresses that concern and gives the
ability to build another fire station when that's required. So, when we get to the
conditions of approval what you will see is -- not that the -- the condition of approval is
simply that the school district -- or that the road has to be constructed by the -- by the
completion of the high school. We don't get to walk away from that condition if
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October 2, 2018
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somehow you decide not to annex -- annex the Trilogy site. So, at that point there will
be options and if something like that happens we will have to figure out what to do, but
the school district has said we will commit that the road has to be built by the time the
high school is open. That's the important point. Let's move from that to safe routes to
the -- to the site. So, the district is going to build over a half a mile sidewalks on the mid
mile collector on the east-west collector over to McDermott and the -- on Ustick and so
they are doing a lot to help alleviate that pedestrian access issue. However, they can't
be expected to build all the sidewalks in the area, as the staff recommendation was. It
is over two miles of additional sidewalks, which were proposed by the staff. That's not
only a fiscal concern, but it's also like how do you get all the landowners to agree to
that. That simply wasn't practical.
Bernt: Excuse me. I don't mean to interrupt. Madam Mayor, can we see a picture of
what he's --
Milam: That's what I was writing down.
Bernt: Can we see a picture of what the gentlemen is explaining about the sidewalks,
you know, with --
De Weerd: That makes it a challenge, because this is his PowerPoint.
Bernt: Okay. Okay. Maybe --
De Weerd: Maybe we can put it up afterwards.
G.Allen: Maybe we can cover that in questions.
Bernt: Sure. Good idea.
De Weerd: Yes.
G.Allen: And I'm not entirely sure I understand where all that staff was proposing, but --
so -- but the --
Bernt: Sorry to interrupt. That's a good idea.
G.Allen: So, but the solution that the district has proposed, which we understand the
staff concurred in when we met with them last week, was that we would simply provide
busing for all of the students to go to this site. As the, you know, area around it fills in,
then, you will have other -- other options. But that's the practical solution for now. All
right. So, let's talk about the Woodside cross-access. So, as you heard, the Woodside
property is right here and this is the southern part of the school site where there is future
residential or no development application proposed at the moment, but what the
Woodside developer has asked is that the school build a 50 foot street from here to
here to provide access in the event that Highway 16 gets built here and so they have at
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least a second access if they get hemmed in by the intersection there and we agree that
secondary access could be provided to that property. That's not -- not the issue. The
biggest issue is that it doesn't make any sense to build the street now. The State
Highway 16 project, the location and the timing, are all uncertain. We could be building
a road to nowhere. ITD has agreed to build this local street here when it builds the
intersection, which will give a first access to that -- to that site and, then, the other issue
is that the school district doesn't have any plans to develop that southern parcel at this
point. So, in my experience in a multi-phase project, I have never seen where the
developer had to actually build the streets in a future phase to -- to help somebody
else's access issue. So, rather than build the road, what the school district proposes --
and, well, let me just say that that's a four to five hundred thousand dollar project, that
comes right out of the school budget that goes to provide access to that developer. So,
what we propose instead is to provide access to -- and to dedicate right of way for a
local street, which would be right in this location here. This is a conceptual
development of what might happen on this property. It's going to connect to the north
end of this Flower parcel, which would provide access through when it develops. This
allows us to build a street at a distance from the intersection that meets -- which is a
local street, which is allowed in that location and is far enough from the intersection to
make sense. What we are proposing is that the -- first to develop pays for the street.
That's the way that it normally works and that's what we would expect to do here. The
last issue around this is utilities. So, the developer has asked for certain water and
sewer locations. Our proposal is consistent with -- with what they have asked for as far
as water goes. So, I don't think -- I think that works from their standpoint. And as far as
the sewer goes, they want to connect into our sewer system and into that sewer
drainage, we don't have a problem with that, but the city's Public Works does. So, they
-- the city wants them to be in the McDermott drainage, as I understand it, when that
project is built. So, we can't offer them any help there. So, that's the last issue that we
have -- the last major issue that we have got here, as I understand it. So, what we have
done to make this easier for you is we took the draft conditions of approval that the staff
recommended and we marked them up in this document, which is in the packets that
we handed out and this -- then we just have a clean version of those and so mostly
there are, you know, minor markups are the same as what the staff proposed. There
are three -- some -- some differences, of course. So, the safety busing issue that we
proposed to address the safe sites through busing, that's condition H. You can read
through that and see if that addresses your concerns. The second public access is in
condition K and the Woodside cross-access is addressed in Condition G. So, we have
proposed solutions to all of those. So, if you agree with what we have to say tonight,
you can simply move approvals with the applicant's proposed conditions of approval.
We are not opposed to giving staff and everybody some time to kind of hash through
details on the conditions of approval if we are generally in -- in agreement here and,
obviously, you have got a few major issues that you -- that you need to work through.
As we went through this process what we heard is that the second public street access
was the big thing and that we may have misheard this, but our understanding is that that
addressed the concerns of the fire and police, along with the second fire station site.
The issues about, you know, additional sprawl and all of that did not seem to be -- well -
- and, you know, the staff can speak for themselves, but we -- we did not perceive those
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as being critical issues here. We think that, you know, you're going to be looking a lot --
you know, we are going to create some delays and issues with the location of this high
school if you want to try to move it in closer somehow and wait while the timing gets
worse. I think we -- we would like to have -- I think I will probably ask Eric to come up
here during the public testimony and talk a little bit more about that siting decision that
was made and how they decided that they wanted to be here, because that was
carefully done. That was not a haphazard decision at all and we hope that the city's
planning and the school district's planning can mesh in that respect. So, with that I think
I'm done with my presentation. I appreciate the extra time. If you -- hopefully, you
know, if there are questions we can have -- start having a little dialogue here about what
remains to be resolved here, because we all know that this commit -- this community
needs a new high school and it needs it yesterday. You know, the best we can do is
2020 or 2021, but let's get going on that tonight. So, thank you very much and take any
questions.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you, Gary. Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Yes. Thank you. And there is -- like Councilman Palmer said, there is not one
of us sitting here that doesn't understand the extreme need for -- for more schools and I
appreciate the adding of the road, because, obviously, I watched the -- the Planning and
Zoning hearing and that was the main -- the main issue. There are a lot of other issues.
That was like the main safety issue. What about -- I know -- I read ACHD's report and it
had a lot of -- a lot of stuff to say. Is there any other recommendations from ACHD as
far as road widening and signals and -- they had quite a long laundry list of things they
wanted you to do as well.
G.Allen: My understanding is we are prepared to accept all of ACHD'S
recommendations as conditions, so --
Milam: Okay. That's great.
G.Allen: So -- yeah. So, there is -- and I didn't talk about this. I need to learn to talk
faster I guess, but there -- you know, there was a carefully thought through access plan
and you know -- and my understanding is with the conditions that ACHD provided, they
were comfortable with access and -- and safety on roads and -- and there is no issue in
-- in performing those conditions. I think we may -- we have them all in here. If we
don't, then, they can be added for sure. And, again, we -- we started with the school --
with the city's conditions, so -- and I can't -- I can't guarantee that they all are in there,
but, again, all of ACHD's conditions should be included.
Milam: Okay. Perfect. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Talk to us about the -- the two miles of offsite sidewalk that you mentioned,
kind of -- maybe we can get a map and figure out kind of where all that is that you're
being asked to construct.
G.Allen: Let's see. Can I just escape out of that? Yeah. Would you mind finding us a
map?
Milam: Madam Mayor, while he's looking that up I forgot I have a disclosure to make.
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: While I was sitting here tonight, my best friend messaged me and said I vote in
favor of the school and I said you can go online and state that and I'm not allowed to
talk to you about this, but --
De Weerd: Thank you.
G.Allen: Okay. Can we point out -- where did the staff propose sidewalks? Or, Matt, do
you want to come up? Are you familiar with that location?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, now that that empty box in the top right -- if you touch that that will give you
the power to draw on this 300,000 dollar system we just put in.
Allen: So, Madam Mayor, just -- just for clarification, these are not conditions of
approval that are going forward and before you tonight. Staff is recommending denial,
as is the Commission. So, these were just simply some very, very rough concerns that
were in regard to our Comprehensive Plan, providing safe access to the schools, so
they aren't conditions. So, please keep that in mind.
De Weerd: We need the right verbiage.
Adams: Good evening.
De Weerd: Hi, Matt.
Adams: I'm Matthew Adams at 462 East Shore Drive, Suite 100, in Eagle, Idaho, and
I'm also on the team for the school district. I think staff can probably describe better
where they had, for discussion purposes, presented sidewalks, but, basically,
Councilman Palmer, it was all along McDermott from McMillan to Ustick and, then, it
was from our site on Ustick eastward basically to Black Cat. As well as all of our
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roadway frontages. Now, we do plan on constructing, as is normal, on all of our
roadway frontages. That would be the mid mile collector that goes north-south, the
east-west mid mile collector, as well as Ustick. So, all of the frontages that our
development parcel fronts on roadway will get sidewalk and, then, we would safety bus
any student and all students beyond that.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, regarding that -- and I read somewhere in the staff report, maybe, that said
that you would probably bus students, but that decision would be made in the spring of
2020 after a meeting to decide. Pretty vague.
Adams: Mayor and Council -- Council Person Milam, I don't know exactly what the staff
report said on that item. However, the presentation that West Ada has provided to you it
is clear that safety busing is planned and will be provided.
G.Allen: It's required as a condition of approval in what we have presented.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further questions for the applicant at this time?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I do have a couple. Real quick on -- great presentation. It's great to see you
again. I appreciate you helping out presenting this project. On that sidewalk question is
it the position of the district that the sidewalks -- that mile plus are not necessary, so it
shouldn't be part of it, or that they are necessary, but they are cost prohibitive?
G.Allen: I think, Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, I think that it's -- it's a variety
of things. Number one, we think that as a practical -- practical matter for a high school
you really don't have that many kids who bike and -- and walk and so, you know, busing
is a more practical answer. Secondly, is it's cost prohibitive -- or it's very costly. Again,
that's money that comes right out of the campus. If you -- if you require off-site
sidewalks there is no other pot of money to build those. And, then, the third thing is just
practicalities of getting approval from the off-site landowners or if you don't have right of
way or you're not building within the right of way.
Borton: Madam Mayor, a couple other -- other questions. When they came up -- and
you mentioned it tonight. I think your letter, this -- or September 27th references, well,
the -- the solution trying to connect to McMillan --
G.Allen: Yes.
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Borton: -- to the north, which is conditioned upon that -- that northern parcel coming
forward with an application and annexation and conditioned upon the City Council at
that time approving the annexation. Is it -- is it the position of the school district that not
only will that connection to McMillan be fully constructed prior to a certificate of
occupancy, but should the parcel to the north not develop, that the district would do so
at its expense and, then, intend to be reimbursed either by ACHD or the developer at a
future date?
G.Allen: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, I'm glad you asked that question.
What's Plan B --
Borton: Right.
G.Allen: -- on the -- on the secondary road. So, let me just read the condition that we
propose to start with. It says the north-south mid mile collector shall be extended north
to McMillan Road for two points of public street access to the street site prior to the
issuance of certificate of occupancy for the high school. This will include construction of
the Five Mile Creek crossing in compliance with the requirements of Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation District. The landowner to the north has entered into an agreement with
developers to annex and extend the north-south mid mile collector to West McMillan.
The important part of that is this isn't contingent, that the school district has said the
road is going to be built before the -- the school opens. Now, you're not obligated to
annex the property to the north. So, what happens if that doesn't happen -- and there
would be, you know, some sort of decision tree at the school district at that point. One
decision is, okay, I guess this site doesn't work. Another one would be, okay, let's try to
figure out maybe the school district does build the collector with some sort of
reimbursement, you know, or maybe there is a Plan C, which would provide a different
public access.
Borton: Right.
G.Allen: So -- but at this point the district is going to say our permit is conditioned on
building that road.
Borton: Madam Mayor? I appreciate that. I think that's one of the challenges, amongst
others, with this as we go forward is one of the most difficult things that could occur in
two or three years is to fully construct the school site awaiting students and, then, the
property to the north doesn't develop, you know, everyone's really stuck and, then, it
would be -- it might be unlikely, perhaps a bit difficult. The room might be very crowded
if a future Council says no CO, you can't occupy the school, that's a really difficult
situation. So, those types of solutions probably need to be crafted and included in any
part of a possible approval here that -- that would really give clarity that says something
to the effect of if it's not done as intended or as hoped, the district does it and comes up
with -- and has a reimbursement agreement perhaps with ACHD with impact fees, with
the developer, there is -- I know you know multiple ways to do that, but all of those
specifics might be necessary up front to gain comfort that nobody's, you know, really
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caught -- nobody intends for things to not work out, but, boy, if they don't that is a
massive disaster potential. So, it would be great to try and have all that solved before
anything would get approved here one way or the other.
G.Allen: May I respond, Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, so if
I'm hearing you correctly, you would rather have Plan B, C, et cetera lined out ahead of
time, essentially, if we -- if we could.
Borton: Yeah. Madam Mayor, really, the issue is -- is if something were to get approved
that there is one hundred percent certainty that if -- and you had said we agree that a
secondary access is important and --
G.Allen: Right.
Borton: -- necessary and our police and fire and those positions are all valid and
warranted, I agree with you and agree with public safety, that being so important we
would want that certainty that -- and it's happened in other -- you know, nonschool
district projects, but in a -- in a private development project where there has been that
commitment that says should this path, A, not happen, we will fund it, construct it, and
how you get reimbursed. There is ways to get reimbursed, but --
G.Allen: Right.
Borton: -- the concern from the city would be that it gets built and we are not holding a
CO hostage if something didn't work out.
G.Allen: Madam Mayor, if I may. Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, I appreciate
that and I want to make very clear that the school district is not acting recklessly in
proposing what it -- what it is.
Borton: I don't think so either.
G.Allen: Because, you know, I think the way we are looking at it now is we are going to
know relatively -- you know, if there is an application coming directly to annex the
Trilogy parcel, we are going to know soon enough whether the city has an appetite for
that, that we can, you know, decide -- decide without expending a lot of public funds
getting, you know -- probably should have said it's a pregnant on this project, you know,
in a way that cannot be undone. Should that be stricken from the records if that was
inappropriate.
De Weerd: I can't unhear it. I am trying.
G.Allen: So, you know, there is -- there is a decision making process going on there. I
don't think we are opposed to, you know, mapping that out a little more -- in a little more
detail.
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Borton: And Madam Mayor? I don't necessarily think that's -- you probably can stand
on the fly and answer that, that's a big commitment and a big, you know, discussion,
perhaps, with your client. You certainly wouldn't suggest that this gets tabled and try
and come in, along with the northern parcel as a much larger project many months later,
that's probably not the path you want to pick either. But I just wanted to bring it up early
to let you have time to think about it -- type of concern is one of the ones on the front
end.
G.Allen: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, you know -- yeah, I don't know that
we want to be totally tied at the hip with that annexation. However, you know, I don't
think we would be opposed to, you know, a short deferral to try to craft a condition that
might kind of address more of the contingencies there.
Borton: Thanks, Gary.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions at this point?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just one brief that one. I wonder if Mr. Exline could come up and just give that
snapshot on why this location. I think that -- if that's what the scope of your -- what you
were going to add and you walked all the way up and we love seeing you and I don't
want you to walk back.
Exline: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I will try and be brief. This -- this bond
committee probably had as vexing a challenge -- I'm sorry.
De Weerd: Name and address.
Exline: Oh, that's right. I forgot. You all know me.
De Weerd: Name and address for the record.
Exline: Eric Exline. Chief communication officer. West Ada School District. 1303 East
Central Drive, Meridian. Sorry. I will begin again. They had a really vexing problem.
We had Eagle High that three years ago was at capacity and it's now 271. So, it's
meeting its expectations to over enroll. We have Rocky that's been running consistently
at 600 kids over -- actually this year it's 650. They are not growing a lot. There is not a
lot of growth potential there, nevertheless, we registered 58 kids at our summer
registration, because they chose to find a house in the Rocky attendance area. So,
they are still growing incrementally. We have Meridian High that has some space, but
has 8,700 approved homesites in its attendance area. That's 2,000 future high
schoolers. And, then, we had Mountain View that has been running consistently at 450
over, but it -- although there is growth potential it's been fairly flat ; right? So, they had to
look at all those pieces and say how do we help Eagle, how do we help Rocky, how do
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we absorb all of the growth from those 8,700 kids and what do we do about Mountain
View. So, should we build two high schools. That was a question. Where should we
locate it if we don't build two. So, we had three sites. We have the site in Star. That's
helpful for Eagle, but very difficult to do much for Rocky. Okay. We have a site in the
middle that actually sits in the Meridian High Attendance area, so it's right in the middle
of -- of absorbing that -- some of that 87,000 and 2,000 kids that are coming. We have
a site south of the freeway at Amity and Ten Mile. At the time it was not very viable,
because you guys couldn't get sewer to it and Kuna hadn't. They have now. It's
probably a half mile from that site. But that creates way more capacity south of the
freeway than you actually need. So, now you can't help Eagle at all and you have to
two -- two high schools south of the freeway with 1,400 kids in them. And two high
schools north of the freeway that are still over. So, as the committee looked at that and
sorted out and started to eliminate sites, by the end it was more than a super majority
opinion that this location was the one that was going to help the problems that we have
with one addition to the solution, which is we expanded Mountain View by -- I believe it's
16 classrooms, which will at least serve the kids that it has. That won't solve our
problem, we will need another high school south of the freeway, will need another one
in Meridian's current attendance zone, we will need two more in Eagle and on it goes.
In total there is 14,500 home sites in the West Ada School District. That's 11,000 kids in
the -- in the pipeline ; right? This is the location that will help our problem now. That's
what the committee felt. Again, there was representation from every school across the
district. This was not an Eric sit in a room or administration sit in a room and make a
decision, this was the community weighing through on a variety of processes. They had
individual surveys as a means of choosing what they thought. Then we did table talk
conference about -- and narrowed it down. And, again, this was the site that they all
said is going to fix the problem right now. If we have to do something else -- so our
choices are we could build in Star. Okay. That's going to be problematic from an
attendance area standpoint. You're going to bus a lot of kids north. You can go south
and, again, have way more capacity than you need south of the freeway. Those are the
only -- other to sites that we have. This is the site that works the best for the enrollment
problem.
De Weerd: Eric, did you have the city on your committee?
Exline: Did I have the city on your -- on your committee? No, I didn't have
representation from any of the six cities we serve or the county. We never -- that --
that's logistically pretty difficult. So, we need representation from six municipalities.
De Weerd: If you're considering six sites in each of those municipalities, but I -- I know
our citizens will give us a hard time if during our Comprehensive Plan update we don't
ask the school district to participate, because you are a key partner. If you're talking
about locating something in our city, yes, I would hope that we will be asked to be
considered. So, we could have told you we have denied applications in this part of our
community for a variety of reasons, then, that committee could have had that piece of
information in making their determination.
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Exline: Madam Mayor, our staff did speak with the city about the site prior to its
purchase. If that would have been the case, if you would have said we aren't going to
accept this, we would have built in Star.
De Weerd: All right. Staff is not in that position that statement.
Exline: I just -- I understand, but -- but regardless, if you would have been on the
committee and you would have said we are going to deny it, then, the committee would
have said our next choice is Star. That was their second best choice. They are the only
three sites we have. We don't own any other sites.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Something a little bit to that direction. When the bond was going through, the
general area -- I don't think maybe we didn't realize how -- the exact location of -- of the
site, but we did know the general area and, yeah, I don't think it would have passed if
you said you were building a school in Star. I don't think you would have the majority.
So, we kind of needed this location in order to -- to get that majority, because that's
where I think probably a lot of the voters are.
Exline: Madam Councilman, that is correct. It was very interesting on election night. I
always go down and watch. We were losing by about .6 percent all night long until the
last 20 precincts came in and the majority of them were in the Rocky Mountain
attendance zone and that barely pushed us over, because the community realized this
was the right location. I agree with you. Running a bond saying we are going to build a
high school in Star would have failed. Running a bond saying we are going to run it
south of the freeway I think would have been -- done slightly better, but I think it also
would have failed and we barely squeaked by.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: This is a fascinating lesson on government. You know, the fact that everyone
in the room has done their job -- you guys have found a place, purchased property, you
know, figured out the reasons why this makes the most sense for it to be. Staff has
done their job in looking at our code and figuring out why this doesn't necessarily -- why
they are recommending against it, you know, for consistency in the which we have done
other things, for the public safety issues, for all of the different things that we call for in
code and now Council is here, you have to try to make this decision. The public's here
and they have weighed in. This is just awesome. And I'm -- I'm really glad that I -- that I
ran and that I'm here for this opportunity today, because I -- I went to Mountain View
High School. My sophomore year in high school was when Mountain View opened and
when it opened we had one way in, one way out. One entrance. And we were told
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you're never getting another entrance, quit asking. So, I went my three years there, I
left to go on a mission, I came back and there was a second entrance. I have no idea
the history behind that, how that ended up happening, but I'm so glad it did. Now I live
south of Mountain View High School. I live off Locust Grove between Victory and Amity.
During the school year, even though I don't have kids in school yet -- I have got four, but
they are all too young. I know it's crazy. But, anyway, I know when school is started,
because when I pull out of my subdivision two miles down the road I get to join a
parking lot that's two miles out to Mountain View High School and so when all of this
happened after Planning and Zoning and all of a sudden we started getting hundreds
and hundreds of e-mails, the thing that really stood out to me that seemed like it would
be the most important thing to me was that there ends up being a second entrance. So,
I'm really excited to hear that -- that that is in the plan. I -- I'm giving a lot of
comment. Usually I wait until after the public has testified, but I -- I want to say all this
so that the public knows what -- what I'm concerned about and what -- kind of what
matters to me, so that, hopefully, when they come up to testify -- I know I kind of cut you
off before, but we all agree we need another school, so I'm really hoping to also hear
from the public what's important to you, whether you're for it or against it, which aspects
of what we are discussing is it -- you know, is it a second entrance, that if this happens,
okay, you know what, I was maybe against it before, but -- but this makes it good for
me. Is it that, you know, there is -- there is not enough sidewalks that are going to be
there? Is it the -- you know, the potential additional cost that's it going to be, you know,
to yourselves as taxpayers to run all those additional sewer and water lines. What is it
besides the fact that we need it that you're either for it or against it. Having said all that,
please, stay here, but I do have a couple questions for fire and police. With the -- the
news of the potential -- if this works out, the second entrance, does that alleviate any of
the concerns or would you guys be cool with that and also with fire thoughts on locating
a fire station here in the future.
Bongiorno: Madam Mayor, Council Member Palmer, that -- that was our main concern
and as we have met with Joe it's not our -- that's not the only concern. As Sonya read
in the staff report, we have other concerns -- mainly with response times, because we
are -- we are still -- I mean even though that we are working with Trilogy on a potential
for a fire station plot of land, as we all know it takes time to build fire stations and it's not
going to happen tomorrow. So, we still have issues with response times. The ladder
truck is -- what was it? Fifteen minute response to get to the school from Station One.
And in my staff report I didn't have the updated numbers. The staff -- excuse me. The
reliability for Fire Station Two is only 80 percent. So, that means that there is going to
be another fire station if Station Two is out on a call that's going to have to respond. So,
there are other issues, but that secondary access was one of our -- was number one on
the list and I -- I noted that in July when I wrote my report that they needed a secondary
access point.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Lieutenant Harper.
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Harper: Okay. Now I got it on. Well, I know our response times -- our cars go a lot
faster, so we get there a lot quicker. But a response -- with regard to response times,
we are not concerned with the response out to that location. Our crime analyst unit has
done a lot of studies on response times and -- to those areas, different times of day, and
that's not something that we are concerned about. The big thing was the secondary
public access for a multitude of reasons. Ingress and egress for students and staff, but
also for first responders if there was an emergency situation or some catastrophic
event, we need multiple locations to get into that. And, then, for us was the continued
partnership with our school resource officers and the school and the three things that
we had concerns with were all -- were all agreed upon and met by the West Ada School
District. So, at this point we are very -- very happy.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Thank you. That helps a lot. With fire would this be a -- the proposed potential
site for a future fire station, will this be a location that we have looked at or an area that
we want to put one?
Bongiorno: Yes. The fire chief and -- obviously, we have all looked at this location and
-- that they are proposing and it would be a good spot for a fire station.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. And would fire Station Six be a reasonable response at all or
are we just looking at --
Bongiorno: I checked the response times when I was doing my report from Station Two
or Station Six, it doesn't make any difference on the time.
Palmer: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Palmer: I have kind of a final comment until hopefully anybody else has anything and,
then, we can hear from the public. I -- I have been extremely critical, frankly, my entire
life of the Meridian -- West Ada School District and the many things that I have felt they
have done horribly. I -- but that's not what's before us today. What's before us today is
-- is what I feel is a fantastic move by the school district to plan ahead. You know, we
ask -- as citizens complain to us as elected officials about things that we don't have
control over. Oh, we need roads. No. We need more schools in places before we
send people out to build their houses there. We all blame the other jurisdictions that
handle these things. So, again, that's part of why I'm really excited today is to have this
opportunity for us to all now be together to figure out how to make this happen. It was
brought up that there was, you know, another project on the other side McMillan -- or
McDermott that had been proposed. Don't quote me on it, but I believe I might have
been the only one who did vote for it, because I understand that while it may be
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awkward and inconvenient for a time, we have countless places throughout the city
where property was annexed, you know, off of -- off of the arterials and kind of wraps
around, so there is -- there is plenty of pockets that will eventually be developed that will
have the sidewalks. So, your plan for busing, while I know if I was in high school and I
didn't have a car I still wouldn't want to take a bus, but I know lots of people did,
because I would get stopped by the bus on the one way that we could get out of the
parking lot, so I'm sure that people will ride them, so I definitely value that that that's
going to be the -- the proposed solution or band-aid to get to that point to when
eventually high school students drive, unfortunately for a lot of them, I think there is
definitely potential here and I really want to know from the citizens what is important to
you with that. Are you willing to put up for a time with not having safe pedestrian access
to the school to get it there or if you're opposed for the same reasons. What is it about
the -- I know we need it. What is it that is really making you against or for it?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: More of comment. Thank you, gentleman, for your presentation. As I have
digested this information and, you know, through looking through the packet and
reading through different information and listening to your presentation, the thing that
comes to my mind over and over and over and over again is the fact of public safety.
You know, I understand your urgency to get this done right now. I understand and I
want to make it clear on the public record that there is not anyone that's sitting up in the
stand right now that doesn't understand the importance of more schools and
overcrowding that you guys face. We listen to it every week. I get multiple e-mails
during a week talking about this very same thing. So, I promise you, with all due
respect, we get it one hundred percent. We talk about a fire station. That's great. Well,
right now we are planning on putting a fire station -- obviously Station Six on Overland.
We have -- there is some plans south of Meridian for Fire Station Seven and now with
this proposed development now we need a Station Number Eight. To build a fire station
is between six to seven million dollars. So, what you're proposing is you want to build a
school, but you also want us to take resources and taxes -- the money that we get from
our citizens to dedicate toward a fire station that hasn't been in our crosshairs ever.
Ever. There is -- there is other needs that we have talked about before -- before this
location and so do our citizens want us to bond for it? That's fourteen million bucks.
That's a lot of money, you know, so does that -- does that get done before, you know,
the school is built? I mean my greatest fear is that we are in crisis because something
has happened at that school -- this proposed school, hypothetically, and we are having
some very scary discussions about, you know, we didn't get that fire station up quick
enough and something happened out by Owyhee High School, who is at fault, Mr.
Exline? Who are people going to come complain at? Me or you?
Exline: I would say both, Mr. Councilman.
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Bernt: I think that they would probably come to my front door before they come to your
front door and that's just not a conversation that is scary, it scares me to death to have
these -- you know, to have a situation put in front of us because we did not provide
enough safety for the kiddos and the people who will be going that direction. It's a
concern.
Exline: Do you want a response or is that just a comment?
Bernt: Comment.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, I was thinking anyway -- you want to appease them and him -- when Trilogy
brings their application they have a fully built fire station on there, it would look really
good. It would cost them a fraction of the money, because everything costs us more.
Sorry. A little bit of jest. I don't really expect them to bring -- to build a fire station.
De Weerd: I just want to tell -- I would tell the public this is highly unusual that we have
had this long of a conversation before we have had one person testify, so --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I don't -- I do have another question for fire. Are there -- are there any Nampa
fire stations anywhere near it? Probably not, but --
Bongiorno: No.
Palmer: Okay.
Bongiorno: It's at least six or seven miles away.
Palmer: Okay.
Bongiorno: It's out there by the Ford Center.
Palmer: Thanks.
De Weerd: Any further questions for the applicant at this point? Thank you both.
G.Allen: Thank you very much.
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De Weerd: As we get into the public testimony I will share that there is a timer that is on
the screen in front of you, so you will be able to track your -- your time and when the
three minutes is up I will note and ask you to summarize. So, Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. The first signed up wishing to testify is Morgan
Hatcher. Is Morgan here?
De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: I don't see Morgan. Morgan signed up in favor. Next is Katie Branco wanted to
address the Council. Signed up in favor. Next is Tristin Joel Dotson wanting to address
the Council in favor. Miranda Carson signed up in favor. Don't see Miranda. Christy
Frith signed up in favor. Don't see Christy. Stephanie Zambrino. Okay. Moving on
down. Haley Howard. I don't see Haley Howard. Signed up in favor. Addison Quong.
No Addison. Addison signed up also in favor. Frith Stevenson. Firth signed up in
opposition. Ed Klopfenstein. Ed signed up in favor. Duly noted. Thank you. Carrie
Kelman. Kerry signed up also in favor. David Blood. First one.
De Weerd: Okay. Just a little Council Chamber decorum. No jeers or hisses or
clapping or cheering. If we can all be respectful. If -- sir, if you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Blood: David Blood. 629 East Lake Creek Street, Meridian.
De Weerd: We were excited that we finally got a real person. Thank you.
Blood: I'm happy to be here and to talk about this. I am opposed to the application. I
think the Planning and Zoning has -- their concerns are -- are correct. West Ada District
currently has four high schools overcapacity, one high school that's at capacity, and one
high school that is under capacity, which is Meridian High School. The COMPASS has
projected future growth and their map shows very little future growth in the proposed --
near the proposed high school. They -- why would we choose to build a high school so
far from our current needs and projected growth areas when first -- the first concern on
boundary committees is proximity. Like how far am I going to have to go to high school
and so putting a new high school that's very far from everyone makes little sense. The
district currently owns land that is the same size as the property that Centennial High
School is located on, just under 40 acres, and it's at Eagle and Lake Hazel. Building a
high school on that property would help the whole district, because not only people who
live south of the freeway, but there are many people who want to go to Meridian -- or,
excuse me, Mountain View High School that live a mile or two north of the freeway who
are going to Centennial or Meridian High School and there are many people going to
Meridian that are south of the freeway that don't want to be. Those -- by moving --
having another high school south of the freeway it allows our high schools that are north
of the freeway, Centennial and Meridian, to better serve the growth that's up there.
Eagle, Rocky Mountain areas, could all be better served by building a high school south
of the freeway. It's a little counterintuitive, but if you look at the map and where they are
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served by it makes a lot of sense. The -- the Council in approving this high school
would drive more demand as has sort of already been seen when schools go up, be it
elementary or high school, more demand is in the area. It's further away from the
current population. So, it doesn't make sense. The Council's charged with doing that
which is good for the city and its citizens. Approving this plan over the objections of
Planning and Zoning would do a disservice to the existing and future citizens. West
Ada has the option of building on Lake Hazel and Eagle. That's a property that could
easily have two access points on the corner there, which as you very well know, is
much nicer. Rocky only has one access point. It's a nightmare getting in and out of
there. They already own that property and it would much better serve the city and urge
the city to reject this application and encourage West Ada to build on the other property.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you so much.
Coles: Next is Bob Taunton.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Taunton: Good evening, Mayor. Nice to see you. My name is Bob Taunton. My
address is 2724 South Palmatier Way in Boise and I'm here representing the property
owners to the north of the school site. You probably are aware -- I think it's in your
packet -- that they signed a memorandum of agreement with the school district last
week, indicating -- well, taking on obligations. None from the -- from the school district,
but all on the -- the company. By the way, the name that's on the agreement is
Heartland Townhomes Property Management. Mr. Allen mentioned Trilogy. Those are
related companies, so I will just use the term Heartland. They own and control
approximately 110 acres, which, basically, except for a small parcel, is all of the land
north of the school up to McMillan from the half mile collector road over to McDermott
and, of course, includes the 300 foot setback for State Highway 16. Heartland has been
in discussion with the -- with the school district for some time. Heartland has also
proposed -- or has had a couple of pre-application meetings on the properties that they
own, about half of the total 110 acres over the last couple years and as was stated this
morning -- or stated this evening, this morning we had a pre-application meeting to talk
about the entire property and how it might be planned and meeting the requirements
from ITD and ACHD and that sort of thing. The commitment that Heartland has made is
that with annexation they would fully construct the road -- the half mile road from the
north boundary of the school district's property all the way up to Heart -- up to McMillan.
That's about a two million dollar cost item. It involves an extensive crossing structure of
the Five Mile Drain and would be fully improved on on the Heartland side, curb, gutter,
sidewalk and connecting -- providing that pedestrian connection all the way down from
McMillan to this -- to the school site. The other -- the other reference in the MOA was
the four acre site that we have been discussing with the fire department and with the
police department. Some time ago we approached them to find out, you know, what's
the issue about city services, what are -- you know, what are some of the things you're
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thinking about and during that discussion there was a thought about maybe we could
look at a fire station -- a joint fire and police station on the property that Heartland
controls. So, we -- after several conversations and talking about different locations, a
four acre site was selected directly north of the West Ada school site. So, it would be
fronting on the half mile collector. The idea was we would donate two acres, the city
would purchase two acres, and the size of the property is sought to be four acres,
because it involves a maintenance facility, as well as a fire station.
De Weerd: Mr. Taunton, you will have to summarize.
Taunton: Anyway, our summary is that we are happy to cooperate with the West Ada
School District. We are happy to help them with their secondary access and we are
happy to help them with the improvement in the fire response times and potentially a
police station. Thank you very much. Available for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you.
Taunton: Thank you.
Coles: Steve Smylie next.
De Weerd: Good evening, Steve. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Smylie: Steve Smylie. 3662 East Granger, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Smylie: I really appreciate the work that the Council's put into this. I want you to know
that I'm really making a sacrifice to be here. It's one to nothing and I am on pins and
needles, but maybe there is a comparison. We did not -- the West Ada District did not
make these plans under cover of darkness. We have been very open. All of it was
subject to public hearings, all of it was in mailers that was sent out to every resident of
the district, not just residents of the city, but the entire district. All of us are agreed that
the need is there. I want to repeat what I have done for 42 years. Whenever I started a
parent-teacher conference. Can we all agree that we are here for the benefit of these
children and that we are on the same team? Can we all agree on that? We are all
doing --
De Weerd: I think everyone has already stated that.
Smylie: Great. Now, we were told to be proactive, to plan, which is precisely what the
district did. We were proactive. We organized parent communities. We presented to
everybody we knew. This -- this property was -- you know, has been there as a matter
of public record forever. Well, not forever, but since we purchased it and the -- you
know, the other thing is we will cooperate and we will do everything we can, but,
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remember, the money comes from the taxpayers, no matter which product comes out
of, and so what we have to do is every penny that is spent by the school district to
provide for the schools, that comes out of money that should and could be used for
other purposes to educate children. We are not in the business of building fire stations
and roads and sidewalks. We will do what we can. We will -- we will do what's asked of
us, but that's -- the money comes out of the same pot and the idea of reimbursement is
not a new idea. As a matter of fact, I have talked to people that go way way back. I
mean when I was a kid Meridian had 1,500 lonely souls and, you know, one high school
and we all know the history. But the idea of reimbursement was done in one way or
another in a lot of the schools that were built and have been built over the years, with
Centennial, with Mountain View, and I can remember vividly my children went to
Centennial and all the work that had to be done to get that school open with the city of
Boise. So, this is not a new precedent. The reimbursement can be done. We want to
be proactive, not reactive, and I guess this is one of those no good deed goes
unpunished, so we got proactive. We planned ahead. We did everything we thought
we should be doing and we are running into roadblocks. With that, Madam Mayor and
Council, I will stand for questions. I have a lot more I could say.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Steve, you mentioned reimbursement -- and I apologize if you were specific
about which one. There has been a few different types of reimbursement for different
things talked about tonight. Which reimbursement are you talking specifically?
Smylie: Well, there have been agreements made as far as connecting the sewer,
connecting the water, connecting roads and the agreements have been when the
development comes in that they will pick up their portion of what has been put up. That
has been done in the past. I -- I am not a lawyer, I am not an expert on how those
agreements were made, but I do know that there were agreements that were made in --
in several cases and I -- I talked with Superintendent Clark, other people that were
involved and they all seem to indicate that this is something that -- it's not only possible,
but it's been done. And here, again, I -- you know, we can go into more details, but I
don't want to belabor an issue. Does that answer your question, sir?
Palmer: Yeah. Madam Mayor. And maybe yourself or Mr. Nary or somebody. I know
that that's been a topic of discussion a few times since I have been on Council, but it
was something that was a practice long before my time. Latecomer fees I think is what
they are called or something. What was -- can you remind us of the reasoning why we
have gone away from doing that or from this practice?
Nary: I can. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so our ordinance changed a
number of years ago, because there was difficulty in trying to administer these types of
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agreements and so we changed our ordinance a number of years ago and -- and made
them very very limited and since then, we have only had one that -- that was a
reimbursement agreement and that's the lift station that's north of this site. That is the
only one that's fit under our ordinance, because all of them, as Mr. Stewart stated, that
all of the infrastructure that is being proposed is already contained in the sewer master
plan. So, when the property owner purchases the property they know what the
expectation is to be built around it. So, we have not agreed to any reimbursement
agreements since then. And, as you stated, we have -- we have had requests in the
south near Hillsdale, we have had requests in the north and we haven't done them for
many many years. So, Mr. Smylie is correct, it was done in the past. It's been a
number of years since we have done any of these in the city.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Mr. Nary -- so, it would require an ordinance change to be able
to do this one or is this one that could fit within the limited parameters of the --
Nary: Since we don't have an application in front of us, basically, what they are
proposing would not be reversible under our current ordinance.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for Mr. Smylie? Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Really not a question, but we do appreciate you coming out here and -- and we
talked about this before, but the district and the city cannot communicate too much --
whether it's to this application or where there is not an application in front of us and
come up with better ways to, you know, share ideas and the proper long-term planning,
so we have discussed it, we don't want to lose sight of that. Appreciate you taking the
time to come share your thoughts. I know you sent an e-mail as well, so much
appreciated.
Smylie: Madam Mayor and Councilman Borton, I -- I thoroughly agree and I want
everyone on the Council of know, because I have talked with several of you, about a
number of issues and very much appreciate and -- Mayor, we are so indebted to all the
things you have done for the district, from showing up when we are dedicating a walking
track and the hundreds of other things you do. Every one of those is noted and every
one of those is appreciated and if there is a silver lining to this dark cloud, the school is
going to be called The Storm after all. You know, if there is a silver lining, if -- if anything
that happens can improve that communication I think that is an incredibly positive event
for all of us and, you know, I want you to know that as a member of the school board I
am absolutely ready. But also I have been a citizen here a long, long time, I represent
the 20 percent of the district that's in the city of Boise, but, you know, I do have portions
that are in the City of Meridian as well and it's -- it's -- it's no small challenge. Our
meetings are on the same night. It's hard. But we have got to make the -- we have got
to make the action to get this to work together better, because I think all of us -- I -- I
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know all of us are goodwill. The voters spoke very loudly. They wanted this school
built. They see the need. The kids are there. They're coming. We have to get it done
and, you know, right now, you know, the thing about being a Cubs fan, I'm used to when
we lose a game there is always next season and the school will be built. It may have to
be built some -- you know, some other way, but it's just going to delay the opening of it
and that is a big concern of mine, that -- that this move forward in a timely procession. I
don't think there is any problem that is not surmountable. I think we can solve this
problem. Let's -- let's get to work and get it solved. Thank you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: We appreciate your passion for the kids and, by the way, you can come and
walk with me during the Mayor's Walking Challenge all month. I will be sending you my
schedule.
Smylie: Thank you. My knee surgery notwithstanding.
Coles: James Hunter is next.
Clark: Madam Mayor, if I could ask the Council's indulgence, I'm Hethe Clark, I
represent Boise Hunter Homes and Jim Hunter and I have both signed up and I have a
brief PowerPoint presentation and we were hoping that I might be able to go first, so
that Jim might be able to refer to those images later. So, if that would be okay, if we can
just swap that order.
De Weerd: You bet.
Clark: Thank you very much. My three minutes. So, again, my name is Hethe Clark,
representing Boise Hunter Homes and Woodside Investors, 251 East Front Street in
Boise. I am with the law firm of Spink Butler. I want to say up front that we do support
the school district and its mission. We are developing a large project in -- in the
northern part of the county and we are -- we are donating a -- an elementary school site
to the district for free. We are -- we want to see the district be successful and we are
generally in support of this application. We just need to have a conversation about a
couple of items before it moves forward and try to refine the impact that this has on our
application -- or on our property. So, just to help the Council understand, this is a
drawing of the way that our property is affected by the -- the future development of State
Highway 16 and the Owyhee High School. You can see that the school site is on the
west of the Woodside property, which is -- the property is there in yellow. We are
working proactively with the district, the city and ITD to try to make sure that this
property isn't landlocked and has access to utilities in order to mitigate the actions of
these -- of the public bodies here. We have two items for discussion. Again, once State
Highway 16 is built we expect that that western part of the property -- this -- this yellow -
- will be landlocked. As you know both ACHD and the city have policies requiring that
access be preserved, particularly along State Highway 16. This is a standard
requirement of development applications and I would refer the Council to 11-H4, which
applies along State Highway 16, per 11-3H2, and requires on site construction of
streets. That's a standard requirement of development. It's something I believe you just
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required of the Compass Charter School, that they provide a cross-access on their
website. As you know, ITD has developed a transportation corridor plan in connection
with State Highway 16. Per their August 24th letter they are concerned that the district
site plan doesn't preserve the access for adjoining properties. Obviously, the -- the
information we have gotten today about the second access is a little bit different than
this issue. While they have a preferred plan, their letter indicates that they are willing to
consider alternatives. These following two slides show the ITD preferred option and the
alternative that I understand staff is recommending and that we are supporting in staff's
recommended language and I heard Sonya loud and clear that it's not a condition of
approval. So, I will try to be careful about that. So, option one is based on the Highway
16 corridor plan and would acquire that north-south connection shown in red on this
map. As I understand it, that's ITD's alternate -- preferred alternative. Obviously, the
longer street section and would provide a circuitous route for the Flowers property,
which is in the blue hatch and the Boise Hunter Homes property. Option two is what
staff has called -- appears to be calling for and what we are urging the city to adopt.
This would be a backage road shown in red that would preserve access for the
Woodside property, the Flowers property, and, importantly, the district's out parcel on
the south, which we understand is slated for future development. With regard to --
De Weerd: Can you summarize, please.
Clark: I will do -- I will do that.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Clark: So, with regard to Mr. Allen's comments, we had not seen the language of the
condition of approval that was up on your screen tonight. The proposal does not appear
to give us access, it appears to go just into the Flowers property onto a Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation District easement. So, a minimum --
De Weerd: I will have to cut you off now.
Clark: If I could just make one brief point, Madam Mayor. This is with regard to the
sewer and it would be in response to a comment that Mr. Allen made. The sewer -- we
have had conversations with the city engineer this morning and the city engineer is
agreement with allowing us to connect to the termination point that -- excuse me -- that
the -- the school district is showing that I have on this map in orange.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, your time is up.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Kind of an important aspect of it. Maybe we can keep going with some staff
comments, too, on it.
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De Weerd: On -- you have questions for Warren?
Palmer: Yeah. For -- yes. Warren, do you have any comment? What would you like to
say, Warren?
Stewart: Yes. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So, there has been some
discussion. So, when the school district originally came in we -- we did require them to
bring the sewer and the water to their site. The sewer is coming in from the north and
coming down to their site to serve of the school. The master plan -- actually, the 40 acre
parcel -- it's about 40 acres before the highway -- Highway 16 bisects it, so it's the -- the
one in yellow that you see. The master plan calls for it to be served off the McDermott
trunk that will come down McDermott Road. We did an analysis to determine whether
or not it could be served from the school district -- from the line that's coming in from the
school district and determined that from a hydraulic standpoint that it can and that
because of the location of Highway 16, the potential to bisect that site and make access
to the McDermott Road -- it can still happen, because it can come from the property to
the north or it can come through Ustick Road. We -- but we determined that,
essentially, it could gain access to the school district site -- we weren't going to require
the school district to extend it there, because the master -- there were other ways that
more closely aligned with the master plan that it can get access, but if they were able to
work out an agreement with the -- with the school district to extend that sewer from the
school district line to that site, there was no reason from a feasibility standpoint that that
could not occur. So, I did send a -- after having conversations with my staff, running the
sewer model, also talking with Bruce Freckleton, we did let them know that we are not
opposed to that option if they can work some sort of a deal to make that happen.
De Weerd: Did you have another question?
Palmer: Yeah. Is there anything else you would like to say? I don't know how you want
me to ask it, but this is a pretty significant point.
Clark: So, Madam Mayor, Council Member Palmer, yeah, I just wanted to make sure
that it was clear that we -- we would like to be able to connect to that, be in agreement
with the West Ada School District. I believe everyone was on board with that. The
information that we had received from the city engineer's office previously indicated that
would not be possible. Obviously, that's been updated now.
Palmer: Awesome.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Madam Mayor, just a question. Hethe, on the -- the road issue you have
raised, it seems as though the -- you have got adequate access to Ustick in
consideration of this current application and there might be a future action by another
governmental entity that might impact whether or not you become landlocked, which
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they would have to address, but it seems a bit cart before the horse to position that the
district's application landlocks you and it doesn't, it's perhaps a future installation that if
that were to go forward at a future date very well might cause the access issues. Am I
characterizing that fair?
Clark: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, yes, I -- I understand the point for sure.
The city code clearly has any intent to preserve right of way along the proposed State
Highway 16 route and the -- the understanding there is that ultimately those properties
are going to be cut off potentially and so when it -- when development applications
come through, the city per code preserves right of way and requires access connections
in order to mitigate the impact of that future action. But I understand what you're saying,
Council Member Borton. It hasn't happened today, but the city code already recognizes
that fact, that it is coming down the line and does require those types of actions.
Borton: Madam Mayor. It's not that the city code -- the city code doesn't require that
east-west access that you're requesting, would you agree?
Clark: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, it doesn't call out this specific one, but it
does state that -- that access should be preserved and cross-access should be provided
from the State Highway 16 to the mid mile collectors.
Borton: Madam Mayor. In a north-south parallel to the highway?
Clerk: It says generally -- generally parallel to the highway. But in this case where we
have a property that's going to be landlocked otherwise, this is the -- that's the only
other option.
Borton: Thanks.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Thank you.
Clark: Thank you.
Hunter: My name is James Hunter with Boise Hunter Homes. 1132 East Laguna Shore
Drive, Eagle, Idaho, is my address. Good evening, Madam Mayor and Members of the
Council. I will try to be fairly short. We are pro schools. We are donating a seven acre
elementary school site to the school district for free on another project. Probably -- you
know, the offer is out and within the next year or two they will probably take that. So,
we are pro school. We just want equal treatment for this project as the same as we are
required to provide when we go develop adjacent to other property owners. We have
owned this property for 11 years. I think the Idaho Department of Transportation did
their ELR on Idaho 16 about four to five years ago and went through, it was certified,
and the major public comment, the public hearings, had the preferred alignment. They
built the first leg. So, we could play games and suggest that it's not going to be
extended further north, but we all know it is. So, the school district has owned that land
for about maybe nine months. Everyone new it was coming and they did it -- they knew
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that virtually landlocks our parcel. Okay? If this is a grade separated interchange here
or there is any grade separation there, we own the land to the north, we -- we are cut off
from Ustick, potentially get right-in, right-out if the grade isn't separated too much, but in
reality we are landlocked, okay? Every project we ad in the city we are always to
extend the road through and to our neighbors, even though they are competitors of
ours. So, at Sky Mesa I am extending roads to two competing property owners on both
sides of us. Our cost, our experience, aren't asking for everything else and so these
policies that we are asked to abide by and the routine we are and professional courtesy
in our industry, we are just asking that of the school district and so we would just like to
be provided that, so our property doesn't get landlocked. We had a 40 acre parcel.
Unfortunately for us it's going to have a fragment of 15 acres on the west side of it. We
would just like that fragment not to be landlocked. We think the school district should
extend that road through. They bought that other piece. They call it the remainder
piece or something for commercial purposes with taxpayers money, so they are
speculating on it. It's either going to commercial or residential. It will need an access.
It will need a backage road. Just build it, you know, and that's what we are asking for.
Plain and simple. Not be landlocked. So, that's the extent of my comment. I'm open
for any questions.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Nobody is tired of hearing from me tonight. I have got a question for Sonya.
Sonya, it is safe to say that if this were to be just a single family home development on
this parcel that there is little doubt that there would be a stub street to that property, just
from the beginning plan?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, Councilmen, to answer your question, yes.
But to further explain, Section 11-3A-3 of our Unified Development Code, the intent of
that section of code is to improve safety by combining and/or limiting access points to
collector and arterial streets, ensuring that motorists can safely enter all streets.
Subdivisions must provide local street access to any use that currently takes direct
access from an arterial or collector street. So, that's the reason for the requirement for
the stub street to this property.
Palmer: Thanks.
Allen: That's the only access they have is from Ustick, which is an arterial street.
Palmer: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Thank you.
Hunter: Thank you.
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Vulttonet: Mike Vulttonet. Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. My name is
Mike Vulttonet. I live at 2235 Southeast 5th Way in Meridian, Idaho. I'm also a trustee
of the West -- the West Ada School District, formerly referred to as the Meridian District,
but that's not the conversation we are having right now. So, first I would like to thank
the Mayor and the City Council Members, both past and present, for the many years of
collaboration and partnerships. Some -- someone finally declared nationally that we --
something that we already knew. We live in one of the best cities in America and I also
think that we have one of the best school districts in America as well. I am truly grateful
for the many years and successful -- successful efforts of our city and our school
district. We have seen unprecedented partnerships on so many projects, with the
culmination of The Hill manifesting that when we work together the sky's the limit for our
community, families and kids. I'm here before you for the first time in my almost 18
years of service as a school board member. Why? Because we need your help. The
decision you make tonight is important and vital to the needs of our kids and the families
of our community. Over the past 20 years we have built 22 schools, 13 elementary
schools, five middle schools, four high schools at a total cost of 440,300,000 dollars. I
think it speaks volumes that this is the first time as board members we are here asking
for consideration and help in this much needed annexation for the Owyhee school
project. We have become rather -- rather efficient in projecting growth and looking to
the future need, of which we must project and, then, deliver in realtime. We have patron
bond committees whom on average spend a combined 400 to 500 hours of time making
these decisions, looking at all the data, everything that is -- is presented and looking to
the future need of our district. The location was extensively and thoroughly vetted.
Finally, we do not live in a perfect world, especially when it comes to growth and
planning. The city and the district are planning the best we can to meet our current and
future needs of our residents in our community. It is inevitable that we may bump into
each other from time to time. We are hoping that you can keep this bump from turning
into a big trip for what we are doing in our plans to meet the needs of our district and our
-- and our community. I have some comments on Swiss cheese, but I will hold those if I
have more time. But that being said, we look to your leadership in hopes of an approval
for this much needed annexation. So, if I have a little more time, which I don't, I would
like to really express about the safety and -- and the Swiss cheese comments, but I
can't do that, unless you ask me a question. So, it looks like I have ten seconds left, so
-- well --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Vulttonet: -- Madam Mayor, I will stand for questions if you have any.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Safety.
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Vulttonet: Safety. Yeah. We -- that probably is one of our biggest concerns as well.
With the growth and -- and -- and as much as it's happening, as Mr. Exline expressed
and -- and the cost of a new fire station, with those thousands of platted maps is going
to come more income. We are going to have more money to meet the needs of these --
of these platted communities that are coming in. We will, indeed, have to build another
fire department out there and I think that is something that the fire department has
expressed that they are much in favor of it. It would be a perfect place to put it to meet
the needs of our city in the future. Safety is a big issue. I have talked to the -- I have
talked to our -- our folks in the police and fire. While there are concerns I think we have
alleviated those concerns. I think we can -- we can solve those issues about access. I
think that response time, whether it -- if it's two or three or five minutes more, obviously,
that's a problem. But I don't think that's going to be a problem for a long time. I think in
the near future -- and I think if this was three to five years down the road we wouldn't be
having this conversation. We would be annexed without question and, then, we would
be moving forward. This particular school will serve our district for another hundred
years. It is -- it is something that -- that we are very confident as a board that will serve
-- to serve the needs of our community. So, I know it's not a perfect thing and I know
safety is an issue, but I think we can solve these issues and I think as a school district
and a city that we should work hand in hand to make sure that we do what's best,
because in three to five years this is going to look like a brilliant decision you made
tonight ; right? Because there will be -- there will be a lot of folks that are going to
appreciate what's going to be happening there and I would like to see it built in -- in
Meridian. I would like to see the economy and -- and all of the good things that come
from that in the City of Meridian, rather than perhaps another city for right now. But it is
the best place. So, concerning safety, I think we can respond. I think we have fire
department and police department that will be very cognizant of the fact when we are
having football games and things like that. So, I think we will be okay in that situation.
Certainly if I thought that these kids were not going to be safe, I would have been the
first one to say no. No, we can't do that, so -- so, that's my answer to the safety -- to the
safety issue. I think it's solvable and solvable in the near term. We are not talking five,
ten, 15 years. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Vulttonet: That's it?
De Weerd: There is no Swiss cheese questions.
Vulttonet: No Swiss cheese comments?
De Weerd: No.
Vulttonet: Not even about a sandwich? Okay. All right. Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Thank you, Members of the Council.
Coles: Next is Kristy Sternes.
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De Weerd: Hi, Kristy. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Sternes: My name is Kristy Sternes. I live at 4374 North Heritage View Avenue in
Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Sternes: And a few comments in support of the school. I am a parent of three children
in the school district. My son was signed up to go to Rocky Mountain High School, I
opted to transfer him to Centennial High School, rather than to have him bused to the
overcrowded Rocky Mountain High School I drive him every day to Centennial. A few
different reasons. No desire to have him in overcrowded -- overcrowded classrooms.
The sports teams, you have got a hundred kids trying out for 15 positions. It's just not
fair to our children. The continued overcrowding at Rocky Mountain is not only
detrimental to the kids, it's detrimental to the students, our educators that we rely
heavily upon. Heritage Middle School is overcrowded at McMillan and Meridian, yet we
continue to approve development on nearly every corner in that section of Meridian. I
live there, I can attest to it, I drive by it every day. To me we approve these multi-unit
apartment complexes right across from these middle schools that are already having to
bring in portable units. We are not helping the school district any. I think it's our
responsibility -- your responsibility to enact -- if you're not going to approve this high
school, we need to do some sort of emergency moratorium on additional residential
building permits, because we are asking for the school district to be more involved, yet I
don't see the school district being consulted every time we approve permit after permit.
We are creating the problem, they are trying to find a solution for it, and we are trying to
nix that solution. To me it's like the Field of Dreams. If you build it, they will come. We,
obviously, heard from many people testifying tonight that there is a commitment there
from all different agencies, all different organizations to make this happen with access
and infrastructure. I'm just going to Cliff note version it for you. This is going to be a
bad idea for Meridian residents and our children. The growth is happening that way.
It's not happening -- it's going to happen on the south side of Overland. It's happening
out there. But to build a school over at Lake Hazel, that does not solve the issue that
we have over on this side. The development is going to spread out towards McDermott,
so we need to plan ahead of time. We cannot blame the school district for not building it
somewhere else, because they have made it clear that they do not have the ability --
they don't have land anywhere else. To me that's where the growth is going. That's
where we need to build and we need to support -- support the school district the best
that we can. That's all I have got.
Coles: Next is Eric Thies. Or Thies. You will have to let me know which.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Thies: Good evening. My name is Eric Thies. You were close, though.
De Weerd: Not really.
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Thies: No. No. Just trying to be sympathetic. I live at 2064 East Meadowood Drive in
Meridian, Idaho. I'm also the president of the West Ada Education Association, so I
work in every building. I have members in every building across the entire district and
including the -- the -- the area that we are affected by. I have taught at Rocky Mountain
High School for ten years and until you have tried -- until you have sat at the
intersection at the top of the stairs in the hallways at Rocky Mountain during passing
period and seeing the overcrowding, you do not understand the overcrowding until you
have seen the cars trying to leave the school due to the fact that there is over 600 more
students in the school and 400 more cars then were ever planned for, you don't
understand the problems with overcrowding and so I invite you to go to those schools
and see that firsthand if you haven't done that yet. However, that was not going to be
my comment. My comment was more about the conditions that were sent out by -- by
the Planning and Zoning Commission -- or, rather, the draft conditions that were out
there and in my mind it broke into three categories and through communication with
folks on the staff those -- those concerns have been clarified for me and it seems that
they break into three categories. The first is safety and -- and I'm not going to address
that, because lots of other people already have. We understand the concerns. We
understand the solutions that have been presented in the district's plan and in their
revised draft conditions -- I don't even know what to call those, but in that document
they have addressed those -- those safety concerns to the point where if I'm
understanding things right, police and fire are content with the plan. The second
concern -- and -- and no district wants to build a school that's not safe. No teacher
wants to work in a school that's not safe. And so if I didn't think the school was going to
be safe I wouldn't recommend approving this. I'm convinced the school will be safe and
the second is access and, again, with the district's plan, with the help from the property
to the north, those access concerns are going to be -- be alleviated. And the third is
location. I have heard a lot of talk about the sprawl and the Swiss cheese and the leap
frog building and -- and all of those kinds of things and I don't have a good sandwich
joke, sorry, Mike, but I -- I do want to talk about the need for a school in that area. That
area wasn't picked quickly. It was thought over. There was consideration for the
Comprehensive Plan in Meridian city. We are -- we are not just looking at students in
Meridian city as West Ada, we serve students in Star as well and with the land they just
annexed, we need a school that will serve those students, as well as the students in
Meridian. When you look at where it's overcrowded in Rocky and Eagle, soon to be
overcrowded in Meridian in the next few years, building a school south of the interstate
doesn't -- doesn't make sense to serve those students and building a school in Star will
mean students will have to be bused pretty much from Meridian High School and Rocky
Mountain borders to Star, which isn't good for students either. Sorry, my time is up. It is
that location and the overcrowding is what creates the urgency that's necessary here --
that you're feeling from everybody that's planning. Putting this out three years, instead
of two years, doesn't seem like that big of a deal until you work and learn in those
schools that are overcrowded. It's a very big deal to those students, it's a very big deal
to those teachers and the urgency is real and so I would, on behalf of all the teachers
and the students and -- and staff and custodial staff and administrators that I have
talked to and worked for for a decade now, I beg you to approve this tonight, even if it's
with conditions.
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De Weerd: I'm sorry, your time is up.
Thies: With that I guess I'm finished.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council? Thank you.
Thies: Thank you.
Bernt: Madam Mayor. Thank you for the letter that you sent us. Thank you very much.
Thies: You're welcome.
Coles: Next David Ferdinand.
De Weerd: Welcome to Ada county.
Ferdinand: Thank you. Thank you. My name is David Ferdinand. I'm at 2419 West
Heron Loop in Nampa and -- and Mayor de Weerd and Council, it is good to be in
Meridian. I am representing a client, Frank and Gwynn Baum. They are at 4343 West
Ustick Road -- and I have covered up this -- oops. Could you get me back, Sonya.
Thank you. This is this property right here. And you can see what -- what happens with
this property with Highway 16 and they are directly across the street from the -- from the
new high school location and what an exciting opportunity for Meridian. I think this is
tremendous. You know, it just takes money to fix all of these things and, obviously,
Meridian is growing. What I'm bringing you is the Canyon county side of this. This
property that I just showed you is in Canyon county. It's in the West Ada School District.
They send their students to all these schools and this particular property is in favor of
the new Owyhee school. My clients' home, two rental houses, a shop and 76 acre farm,
which has been home since 1975 and their property is in the pathway of the
development, including the proposed school expansion, are the road widening, the
extension of Highway 16. The ITD plan includes an access road from Highway 16 -- if
you can see this, it goes right across the front of their 700,000 dollar home and a couple
of rentals with a nice little access road there. Their land is in the impact area of Nampa.
I can tell you having had some experience with impact areas and -- and how counties
and cities set these up, we know that at some point in time somebody's going to have to
pay for the -- for the sewer and the water, for the services that it takes to expand these
areas. What we are suggesting is that you add one more part of the community. Back
in 1892 when Ada county citizens voted to have Canyon county formed out of Ada
county, this property was in Ada county, so was the city of Nampa, by the way, in 1891.
The --
De Weerd: We don't want Nampa.
Ferdinand: Yes.
De Weerd: I mean love Nampa, but I don't want to annex Nampa.
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Ferdinand: Well, here is what we are asking. We -- we certainly would add to the
financial development, if you would even consider annexing the south side of the street,
we would certainly bring that much needed development that everyone is talking about.
It would bring more funding for the situation. I think you better check the record. I think
it was even part of Ada county back in the '90s at one point in time. Let me complete.
As the area develops they would appreciate being considered for the provision of water
and sewer and even being annexed into the City of Meridian to allow their property to be
developed. This would help defray cost to the proposed West Ada School District and
open this area. With staff suggested conditions to approve roads, widen and improve
access, we believe this is the best time to develop this area.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Ferdinand: We can talk about the annexation of Nampa if you want.
De Weerd: Yeah. Mayor Kling would not appreciate us for that.
Ferdinand: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Jeremiah Brown.
De Weerd: Good evening. Either one.
Brown: Either one. My name is Jeremiah Brown. I live at 12064 West Fiddler Drive in
Boise. Madam Mayor, Council, my kids go to West Ada. I was on that committee that
Eric Exline talked about. I even have a map of all of the proposed lots that have been
approved by -- not only the city of Eagle and Star and Boise and Kuna, where they are
going to start building these houses. It wasn't a very tough decision for us to figure out
where we were going to put this high school, but in the end there really was no other
choice. This is where all the lands are going to be and I don't want to point fingers, I
really don't, but you guys are approving these lands and they have no control over it and
no one really does. I mean the -- the developers are buying land as fast as they can
buy it and they are going to build houses as fast as they can and we are going to end up
with 78 to 92 thousand students in our district within the next 20 or so years. That's
over double what we have now and I know you guys are looking at this particular
school, but by the time my one year old gets into high school there is going to be two
more high schools. There is going to be two more middle schools and I don't even
know how many elementary schools are going to be built by the time he gets into high
school and I think they are -- I think the condition that Planning and Zoning has is valid.
I think that the condition -- the -- the revised draft I think works really well and my main
suggestion would be -- I know that the Council has said it, I know that my -- we may
have said it in trustee meetings, maybe you guys should have some sort of third party
that talks to each other, because I know that I came in here and handed out business
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cards for a website that has all of this information on it to Council Members. I got five of
the six mayors to allow me to put endorsements on our website. I even got Exline and I
got Meridian and Boise, the business association for them to endorse it, and so I was at
his town hall meeting when he was there and when I have had district people tell me
that certain people in -- in planning and zoning or council didn't know what was going
on, it really surprises me that this isn't -- there isn't more communication and -- and
maybe this should be a lesson to -- to not only the district, but also the City Council
and everyone, that you guys should have some sort of maybe a third party person or
someone that's hired by the city or from -- hired by the district to talk to the six area -- or
the six cities that are all a part of this district. We need better communication, but I still
think -- regardless of going forward, this is a problem we have to face now and you guys
can check that website, again, it's boostwestada.com and you will see all of the houses
that need to be built here -- or that are going to be built here. But, yeah, other than that
I really think there should be -- this should go through and even if you have to do
conditions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jeremiah. And I -- I would just note -- so, number one, yeah, we
didn't know it was right there and I heard this -- I heard where it was first proposed. If it
was just bought nine months ago, this has been something that's been long term, but
you will see a little bit of what we are dealing with right now.
Brown: Oh, yeah.
De Weerd: Have you heard -- so, the minute we have a growth driver -- schools are
growth drivers. We now have the land to the north, the land to the east, and now the
land to the south all want to develop, because this -- this is being proposed. We weren't
ready to develop here. We have been trying to keep growth on the east side of this land
-- or line so we didn't have all of this. And, yes, there is a need for a high school. That's
why we were all on board. But this is what has been the concern, because we can't
serve what is already been built. Now, we are going to have growth pressures in four
square miles as well. Therein lies the biggest concern. And now you're stretching our
police and fire into areas that we don't have facilities and service level. So, it's more
complex than just a dot on a map.
Brown: Definitely.
De Weerd: And -- and that's my only point to it.
Brown: Well, perhaps we should also look at more impact fees for -- for hastening some
of this growth.
De Weerd: Well, if Trustee Vulttonet and I would have anything to say to it, we have
been to the legislature for almost two decades now, Mike. We still can't get growth
impact fees for schools. It's not allowed by the state law.
Brown: Yeah.
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De Weerd: So --
Brown: We will just have to keep working --
De Weerd: We are on it, but --
Brown: We will just have to keep working. Thank you all for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Real quickly. And already -- this is not really a question, more of a statement.
It's something I have heard a couple of times. A little bit in our defense. When we have
an application for a development, it does go to the school district and the school district
looks at it and they have an opportunity to respond to -- so, that when we have a
meeting -- a hearing like this we can see the school district's response and never has it
said we cannot take these students in the schools. It sometimes says it will cost money
and it would be nice to have some money to help support it or, you know, this is the
impact that it will have, but never have they said if you develop this we will not have the
capacity to place those students and, therefore, we cannot deny an application for that
reason. So, it's a lot to take in and for those of you who don't do this every day, just kind
of consider that. We are not just throwing developments out there. When they come to
us we can't deny it for that reason -- if we don't have a concrete reason from the district.
De Weerd: Well -- and just to the district's defense, they cannot deny access to
education and so it's a vicious circle. I did want to know that, too.
Milam: Yes.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Next is Josh Cormier.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Cormier: Thanks for having me.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Cormier: I am -- my name is Josh Cromier. I am a realtor representing a client who
owns the property at 4000 North McDermott Road, who is very much in favor of building
the school. In the 2017 Meridian annual report the word family is used 11 times.
Ninety-three percent of residents surveyed in the report say that the city exceeds
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expectations as a place to raise a family. Meridian is a family city and families want to
move here. The three highest priorities, according to the report for the residents
surveyed, are transportation, education schools, growth and development. Owyhee
High School answers two of the city's highest priorities, growth and development,
education and schools. The client we are here representing today owns a single family
home on a seven acre parcel currently under contract for sale to a developer, who
intends to live in the home with his family prior to developing it after the school is built.
If the school is built, according to the city's development map, or the master plan, city
services will end at the edge of his property line. This transaction and transactions like
it will come to a halt and die if the school does not continue. Effectively ending major
opportunities for growth and development in that area. I won't educate you on the
Coleman Homes reimbursement agreement, because I know you're all familiar, but the
result of the reimbursement agreement is that the next developer in the area must pay
312,000 dollars to update the lift station and 265 per unit to reimburse Coleman Homes.
This is highly cost prohibitive, particularly for smaller developments like ours. Cost
prohibitive to begin with and canceling the school and city services may kill
development altogether. Between 2010 and 2017 Meridian's population grew by an
average of 3,249 people per year. So, growth is not only on the way, it is here and will
require additional emergency services to be put in place regardless. I know that's a
more complex issue than I'm aware. Putting the school closer to congestion presents
its own set of safety issues. When Mountain View High School was built the area
around it was barren of development. When Rocky Mountain High School was built the
area around it was barren of development. So, to parrot the mother from earlier,
Meridian wants families to move here, build it and they will come. Since I have 50
seconds left, councilmantypalmer.com and I went to high school together. Funny
enough, we were 26th -- 2006 and 2007 -- both most likely to be a politician in the
yearbook and here I am a lowly social dropout realtor and here you are living your
dream and I just want to say I'm very, very proud of you. I have really enjoyed
everything you said today. But as you recall -- I know you have mentioned it and I
appreciate that, the -- the congestion issue driving into Mountain View High School at
the time was a fiasco. So, as you know, idiot kids, if you overslept that day and tried to
get to school it was like 30 minutes to get inside and I wonder what that kind of
congestion would look like if you built a high school closer to the -- you know, what's
already developed and how that would look and if it doesn't expand the safety issues
with respect to the greater population.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cormier: Thank you very much.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I knew there had to be a comment there ; right? Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, the -- the real history is I was -- despite being highly unpopular in high
school, I -- somehow I was voted most likely to be president and also most likely to be a
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CEO. So, they told me to just pick one. So, naturally, you know, free market, I picked
the CEO guy, so I -- they took my picture in a suit, whatever, but I had one president as
well, but because I do prefer business and my family, this will be my only term on
Council. Call it a dream --
Cromier: I know it's ridiculous and personal, but it's been a long time and it's good to
see you.
Coles: Kathy Wright. Don't see Kathy. Sue Darden. Otis Darden. Darren Trutott.
Heather McDonald. And Sherry Belknap. And with that, Madam Mayor, Members of
the Council, that concludes those that indicated that they wished to testify. Those that
signed up and indicated that they did not wish to testify or did not mark that box that you
wish to testify, your names will be entered into the record signifying your favor or
opposition.
De Weerd: Okay. I would open this up. Is there anyone who wishes to testify whose
name wasn't read? We will go here and, then, we will go in the back. Good evening. If
you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Clayton: David Lee Clayton. 7004 West Ring Perch Court, Boise, Idaho. Madam
Mayor, Council Members, I work -- I'm the representative for the South Cole
Neighborhood Association, so I deal with the city of Boise often. I know Bob Tonaman,
Mr. Tucker, from Syringa and other developments. I'm trying to decide how to say this
say.
Bernt: Just say it.
Clayton: I -- the concerns -- I have been in a lot of these. I've participated in them, I
have watched them and listen to them and as you noted, it's very unusual for so much
Council Member discussion prior to public testimony and applicant testimony.
Concerned there is a little bit of prejudgment in this particular application before the
sides were heard, some of the comments since then. As far as the houses and the
development, I have looked at the -- the developments and the permits that are out
there and we talked about this plan that we have to -- for the road for Hunter Homes
and, you know, we need to prepare a plan in the future. I think a lot of these approvals
for the permits and housing that have been done didn't have in mind the preparations --
maybe the precedent that's there for the school. I don't see a plot site closer inside that
it wasn't sprawl for the City of Meridian for school. There is a lot houses that are
approved, but there hasn't been a plot or an area preserved for the school to be done.
So, you have pretty much given them no options to service your city -- to service the
new homes that are there. In addition to that, I work in construction myself, we just
barely finished working on the Bonneville School District project, the Thunder Ridge
High School, and it is out in the same type of situation, exactly the same situation, just
outside of developments that this school is and it's going to be a great success. It was
overwhelmingly supported. The impact fees that we have talked about -- they don't
have to be applied to the school. For example, that road that Boise Hunter wants, well,
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it can be applied as the impact for the development of the homes that are going into the
future area south of the school and to the Boise Hunter area or the Syringa -- or the
Trilogy, sorry, the Trilogy development north of this. All these things can be used in the
future when you guys approved -- if you annex or zone those areas. I think -- and as
one of the other members -- or people testified, that will slow down the growth. I
understand you guys have a ton of homes coming in. The problem is is you haven't left
the school district any options, other than this, to serve what you guys have approved
already and I get it, you get people, it meets all the criteria, staff approves it, it meets all
the criteria -- I understand all of that, but you haven't left them any recourse and as far
as the safety goes, I -- I do think that they have mitigated it. I really do. I don't think that
we have issues that you might have had before and I will conclude with that.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Not a question, just a brief comment. I think from my perspective --
perspective, what I have seen with lots of the Council comments early is they are very
well prepared. I think the hundreds of e-mails and the -- and the hundreds of pages of
staff reports and analysis have been reviewed prior to today and they are prepared.
Clayton: I appreciate that and I can understand that that's part of it. The developments
-- for example, Syringa, very prepared, had multiple hearings, we even postponed the
original hearing, because we weren't ready. It feels like we are not ready for this
hearing, to be honest with you. It feels like that first hearing we were going to have with
Syringa where we weren't ready and we deferred it, because we weren't ready.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bernt: What ways do you think we are not ready?
Clayton: The draft provisions. We don't have them done yet.
Bernt: Are you talking --
Clayton: They made edits to the potential conditions --
Bernt: -- rhetorical? So, are you talking about the conditions of approval?
Clayton: Well, I'm saying you have all these issues, the safety, you have the access,
you have all that stuff, the -- Mr. Borton's very legitimate concern that, hey, we have got
a potential that we are going to do this year and to get funding for it with access fees,
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but it's a maybe, just like it's a maybe that 16 is going to go in, we just think it's going to
happen, but it's still a maybe. So, you have all these things that were valid concerns
that have been put -- concerns by staff that have been, then, followed up by the
applicant and those weren't ironed out before we sit here and we have a whole bunch of
discussion and you have half of the people that signed up that leave, that don't get to
testify, because it happens in the front end and, then, we didn't get full discussion.
De Weerd: I would just say the people that signed up signed up online. They didn't
have to be here in person, so -- and once we signed, we added the sign-up online to
facilitate. It also makes it easier to sign up and not show up. So, I -- I would caution
you on that assumption. But I think public hearings -- you're not supposed to come here
with your mind made up, you're supposed to come here with an open mind looking at
the application in advance. There were some issues and the school district came
prepared with information that said we are -- we are working those through. The date
was set and it cannot be moved, so you hear the testimony and they don't have to make
a decision tonight. What is Syringa anyway? I just --
Clayton: It's a 1,200 home subdivision that's going in South Boise by Cole Road and
Lake Hazel.
De Weerd: Okay. Sorry --
Clayton: It's a billion dollar project.
De Weerd: -- don't follow the Boise city council stuff.
Clayton: I understand. Being in the South Cole Neighborhood Association I kind of
have to.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bernt: Thank you for your comments.
De Weerd: Yes, ma'am. Good evening.
Boe: Good evening. My name is Tiara Boe. I live at 955 West Great Basin Drive in
Meridian. 83646.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Boe: I have four sons in the West Ada School District and I am also a public education
teacher and I did not plan on providing comment tonight. However, I do feel very
invited, so thank you and even compelled to do so. So, thank you for taking public
opinion tonight. I request that our city's council echo the past opinions and continue to
support the notion that we should build our city from the inside out, not from the outside
in, and certainly not on speculative promises from builders whose lens is about
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business and profit and not through a lens focused on the safety and considerations of
children and there have been blatant assumptions that taxpayers would be willing to pay
for sewer, infrastructure, and a fire station that hasn't even been on the radar until this
very evening. I do respectfully disagree with Mr. Smylie regarding the bond
transparency. If the bond had been transparent with a clear picture regarding traffic and
life safety concerns, I don't know that the bond would have passed. And, again, those
taxpayer expectations for infrastructure, sewer and a fire station that hasn't been talked
about before this evening, that bond may not have passed and regarding safety, I don't
feel as a mother or a teacher that concerns have been alleviated by painting a picture of
what could be. My stomach does drop watching that first responders video and
knowing that times -- average times to provide response to the students at that school
would be greater than average at the current time -- maybe not in the future, but at the
current time and it's really hard to wrap our brains around what we don't want to believe
happen and what we pray every night will not happen in our schools and hope that we
don't have a mass trauma injury at our schools. But what would be the consequences
of something like that happening before the first responders are there, the infrastructure
is there and we are ready to be all together in this new infrastructure. I just ask that you
don't put students and teachers in that position. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mike.
Hirano: Good evening, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Hirano: Council Members. My name is Mike Hirano, I'm principal at Rocky Mountain
High School.
De Weerd: Mike, do you want to pull that closer -- there you go.
Hirano: How is that?
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hirano: I'm principal at Rocky Mountain High School, 5450 North Linder Road. We talk
about safety and we talk about our kids. As a principal I can tell you that is the number
one thing that we look at, no matter what goes on. When we build a school, when we
start to design plans, safety is the number one thing and I know that for me as a
principal I would rather be looking at that, so I know that when we build the school that
will be the number one considerations is to take care of the kids, to make sure that it is
safe. The piece I want to talk about is that Rocky Mountain is what 2,433, that's how
many kids we have right now. We have been averaging 60, 70, 80 kids a year. If we
keep holding off I'm going to be above 2,500 -- close to 2,600. That's a safety issue for
me in my school. I need help. I need another school built. If you wait -- if you put it
down on Lake Hazel, in that area, that doesn't help me. If you go down to Eagle it
doesn't help me. I have too many kids. I need really -- my subdivision committee needs
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a relief. We talk about -- just about every day about the number of kids who have to go
through this subdivision, but the -- the elementary school is right there, parents are
worried that when we have a new high school, kids are driving, they are going to hit my
kid. You know, we have kids parking in the subdivision, because there is no more room
in the parking lot. So, as it gets bigger and bigger I don't have room. So, I can't keep
my community safe and I can keep my kids safe. So, my biggest -- my biggest plea to
you is to consider that also, not only as the building support, why that location is really
good right now -- at least on a personal level in regards to my school, that's when it will
give me the greatest relief and the greatest help and help take care of our kids in that
fashion. Any questions?
De Weerd: So, Mike, I guess -- I know you need relief. I have been in the halls and like
Eric said, it's -- it's crazy. Why don't you redraw boundaries and put more to Meridian
High? We live closer to Meridian High, we are in Rocky Mountain High School
boundaries, and it just didn't quite make sense, because they split us down the road.
But for now I do understand you're overcrowded and that Meridian High has room.
Hirano: I agree with that, but I also worry about -- which happened before, we redo
boundaries and, then, when you decide where a new school is going to go or just -- and
we have to redo boundaries again. That doesn't help families when kids are moved at
one time and, then, have to be moved again, because boundaries have to be redrawn
and it's in regards to where they are located. The one that's over there on the side does
help out the most I believe.
De Weerd: I had kids that went to three -- one child that went to three elementary
schools, two middle schools and two high schools and we didn't move. So, I do know
what you're saying, but -- any questions for Mr. Hirano?
Bernt: Madam Mayor, I have one question.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: When your school was originally built, how -- what was -- what was the capacity
the school was built for?
Hirano: Eighteen.
Bernt: Eighteen. So, it's the exact same amount of, you know, kiddos that will be in the
new high school.
De Weerd: Thank you. This one and, then, Denise in the back. And, then, over here.
Good evening.
Birch: Good evening. Shawn Birch. I live it 4809 Bronze Spur Drive, Nampa, Idaho.
Madam Mayor, Council, as I just explained, we live in Nampa. We actually live in
Canyon county, not actually in the city of Nampa. We are at Star Road and Cherry
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Lane, between Ustick and Cherry Lane and between Star Road and McDermott. We
are directly in the impact area of this high school. As I said, we are in -- we are actually
in Canyon county, but the property that is directly north of our neighborhood, which is
Silver Spur Ranch, the property directly to the north of that has either been annexed or
is approved for annexation into the city of Nampa and is approved for housing
development of approximately 850 homes. That is not in the City of Meridian, it's not
Ada county, but it's West Ada School District. My wife and I and our family moved to
Meridian into Kelly Creek Subdivision near Ten Mile and McMillan in 2006. In 2008 I
wrote you a nasty e-mail, Mayor --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Birch: -- about --
De Weerd: I love those.
Birch: -- about the Selway Apartments that was going to be built directly to the south
and I was very surprised to get a personal phone call from you in response to my e-mail
and -- and you very eloquently laid out the reasons why, you know, it looked like
approval or why it looked like these things might happen and I really appreciate that and
I -- and I will always remember that. Now I don't live -- I'm not one of your constituents,
because I don't live in the city. However, your decision here tonight has a great effect
on me and my family living in Canyon county. We support this high school. We were in
Kelly Creek Subdivision when Rocky Mountain was opened in 2008 or 2009. I
remember at that time that there were not contiguous sidewalks all over the place.
There weren't -- there weren't sidewalks, there wasn't the development on the northeast
corner of Linder and McMillan. There were great areas of -- you know, of concern.
Also, I think similar -- you did have Lochsa Falls and Paramount that were developing
already, but there was a lot of areas along the major roads that hadn't been developed
and there weren't sidewalks. That stuff happened over time. I sense a great deal of
reluctance on your part, Mayor, to allow development to happen on the west side of the
city or on this -- on this west end and have it fill in. It's going to happen. Bridgetower
West is developing from Ten Mile to Black Cat. There is also the -- the subdivision
directly to north of that, Bainbridge, that's going that same mile block. Oak -- the Oak --
The Oaks -- Oak Creek Subdivision is going from Black Cat all the way to McDermott.
You know, that I believe is all approved all the way to McDermott. These are enormous
subdivisions with incredible numbers of homes that are going in. My kids -- I have two
kids right now that are still at Rocky Mountain, because when we moved in 2011 they
were allowed to be grandfathered in and they stayed at Rocky and we have appreciated
Rocky, but I have two children in elementary school right now that will be able to go to
this new high school if it's built where its proposed. I drive Ustick everyday.
De Weerd: Can you summarize.
Birch: Yeah. Am I out of time?
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De Weerd: Yes.
Birch: I drive that stretch of Ustick almost every day. I'm a federal law enforcement
officer. I'm a first responder. I appreciate what the fire department has said about
wanting a fire station there. That's great. And I appreciate the concerns with the city. I
believe that that's been resolved. It will be save for our kids. I'm a parent and I'm in the
impact area and I support it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? Just a question for you. So, you had kids that were going to
be going to the school and I have no idea how long it might take to actually have a fire
station there. Say it's ten years from now. Are you comfortable -- it's not something I'm
going to have to deal with. I mean I live two miles south of Mountain View, so my kids
will probably go to Centennial. Really glad I got a laugh there. So, me not -- not having
to be in this situation, would you as a parent be comfortable with knowing there is not
going to be a fire station there when my kids are there? It's going to happen eventually,
but --
Birch: I am and I will tell you why. As a law enforcement officer my bigger concern is a
law enforcement response. When I look at incidents that have happened in the recent
past in this country, the mass trauma incidents have been law enforcement related and
not natural disaster or, you know, fire or trauma type events where -- where the
response that is critical to saving the life of preserving the life of my child will be
dependent upon fire, as much as it is upon a law enforcement response. There was
recently a school lockdown at my kids' elementary school, Ponderosa, which is about a
mile and a half, I think, from the proposed location of this high school and they were
there in a hurry and I work in downtown Boise, my car has lights and sirens, it's not as
fast as his, but I would have probably been satisfied with my response time from
downtown to my kids school, you know, under -- under that sort of circumstance. I'm
being a little facetious. Law enforcement has said that there is not an issue with their
response times to that location. Fire can be addressed, but in my opinion, the bigger
issue is the law enforcement response. Somebody brought up the ladder truck time
response. I don't know how many calls for service the fire department has had two
schools in the City of Meridian or in Ada county where it justified or required a ladder
truck response. I may be completely wrong on that, but I certainly -- you know, living
where I do and being in the area where I am, I would appreciate the fire department
being closer, even though we are serviced by Ada -- or by -- I'm sorry, by Canyon
county.
De Weerd: Yeah. We know you're law enforcement and your issue with fire -- I mean
come on.
Birch: Hey, those draggers.
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De Weerd: Well, yeah, but when you have an injury on the football field or on the
basketball court or, you know, and -- because they respond to medical, every second
does count.
Birch: Absolutely, Mayor. I understand. I -- I don't recall if it was from the fire
department that I heard this or if it was something that I read in a response e-mail, I
would be interested to know from the fire department what the additional response time
would be for a -- for a regular apparatus that's not a ladder truck. I suspect -- I thought I
heard something like 45 seconds or 65 seconds difference. Perhaps the fire
department can clarify that. But it's -- it's certainly time, but we do see in this proposal a
remedy for that and with all the growth that's coming west and the neighborhoods that I
just mentioned, there is certainly going to be a necessity for -- for more fire response
capability anyway and this is certainly a driver for that.
De Weerd: Yeah. Do you want to address that?
Bongiorno: Sure. So -- just so you know, the -- the ladder truck response is in the
International Fire Code and what the International Fire Code says is if you have a
building that is over 30 feet tall, you -- you get a truck company. So, that's part of it.
And anytime you have a -- an actual structure fire, you're going to get a truck company
as well. So, I was the one that brought up the truck company I believe in my report, it
says the truck company was roughly 15 minutes away under ideal conditions. Station
Two, again, with 80 percent reliability, was at seven minutes to the school, which our
response times are five minutes.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief.
Bongiorno: Does that answer your question?
Birch: Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bongiorno: Sorry, Mayor, if I can real quick, the response time for the ladder truck is ten
minutes and it would be 15 from Station One.
De Weerd: Thank you.
La Fever: Madam Mayor, Council --
De Weerd: Good evening.
La Fever: Denise La Fever. 6706 North Salvia Way. The first thing I want to look at is
you have the current zoning map right here and up in McMillan and McDermott there is
a cluster of developments that have been identified there that are annexed and zoned
that haven't been built. Those particular projects already have sewer and water
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included in their development agreements. Move onto that. And since they have been
approved and development already includes water and sewer -- as a matter of fact, one
of the developers even asked for an R-15 to make the project more feasible due to
water and sewer cost. I think that a reimbursement would be -- would make sense and
would make sense to the taxpayers, since they are already in their development
agreement. In addition, we have had massive amounts of multi-family. Anybody that
picks up the building permit report for Meridian can see the number of doors that have
been approved. They are not all built out and they are not all occupied, but they are
coming. We have had a lot of them. Can't lose sight that the public voted to approve
school bonds to build a school. Citizens want it. The future land use map shows in the
area a school that was shown on that area. It's not -- it's within the close area and it's
not parcel specific, it was not identified and tied to a specific parcel. The school needs
to be built. Nobody -- nobody can dispute that. We need to relieve current and future
growth. A required condition that makes sense is a second -- a second access prior to
opening. The developer to the north is being more than accommodating and interested
in helping with the -- with a road and in addition to a fire station and when I talked to him
in the back row, he says that he's looking at single family, not looking at multi-family,
which is a good thing. In addition, I applaud them planning ahead. I mean I cannot tell
you how many times I have sat in the back and over and over again people coming up
saying the schools are overcrowded, the schools are overcrowded and here they are
coming with a proposal forward saying that if -- they are planning ahead before it all
happens and I think it's absolutely fabulous and I still remember the day when my niece
and nephew went to the new Eagle High School and I thought, oh, my goodness, that's
so remote, I can't believe there is a school way out there. So, you know, this may be
remote right now, but it's -- it's coming and, then, a development agreements and the
development applications keep coming one after another. So, I'm all for the project and
I -- and it's not -- in the new Comprehensive Plan there is already a school in that area,
so -- thank you.
Lilienkamp: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Lilienkamp: Jill Lilienkamp, principal at Meridian High School, 1900 West Pine Avenue
in Meridian. I wasn't planning on speaking tonight. I usually do a much better job when
I am prepared, but I feel like there is a couple of things that you guys do need to know,
since Meridian High School has been mentioned many times. The first thing is that I'm
terrified that there is 9,000 homes that are scheduled to be built in my zone. I am
looking at -- you know, if this -- if this high school isn't built I could have up to 4,000
students possibly in my school and I feel like we are always talking about that
catastrophic event and that seems to be the main thing that's on our mind, but there are
a lot of safety issues, especially in -- I think Mike Hirano can attest -- when you have an
overcrowded school. If I had 4,000 students I can't imagine the safety issues that I
would be looking at in my parking lot as kids are trying to get to classes, things like that.
So, I would encourage you to think about the safety issues when we overcrowd
additional high schools and where we are going to put all those kids that are going in
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those 9,000 homes. I do want you to know that we -- just like Mike, we think constantly
about safety. I am very proud to work for the West Ada School District right now,
because we are actually working on all becoming certified in level one safety and that's
all we have been thinking about. I think, yeah, you guys know, probably have seen the
press releases and that. Right now all of our high schools we have implemented the
lockdown system. All our kids are wearing badges at Meridian High. It's going in full
effect on Monday. So, we are always considering safety. The second thing is I keep -- I
have heard -- well, why don't we just redraw the boundaries and I just want you to know
right now with the new remodel I only have four empty viable classrooms at Meridian
High School and that's because I have about 13 classrooms that are special ed
classrooms and I can only put about four or five, sometimes up to ten students in those
classrooms, for the safety of students. These are students sometimes that are violent,
they can't be around large groups and that's for the safety of them. So, even though we
were built to capacity, we are projected for 2,400, I will not be able to put 2,400 safely in
the school, because of the large amount of special ed students that I -- I do serve,
because they do need their own classrooms. So, like I said, right now I only have four
empty classrooms where we could add more students, so -- I just want to make sure I --
that you guys understood that point, too. Do you guys have any questions? Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Yes. Have you already testified? Okay. You can -- you can't
stand there and ask it, but let me first find out if there are other people who would like to
testify. Good evening.
Yorgason: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name is Dave
Yorgason. My address is 14254 West Battenberg Drive, Boise, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Yorgason: On the border of Meridian. I have two kids who have graduated from Rocky
Mountain High School. I have one who is a senior at Rocky Mountain High School. I
graduated from Meridian High School before all these other high schools in Meridian
were built. I have a lot of love for Meridian. I will not repeat all the comments that have
been made, I will make two points real quick and stand for any questions. First of all, I
support the application moving forward. I am very well aware as a land developer of the
City of Meridian's desire to not move development past McDermott. I'm also well aware
of it wasn't that many years ago you didn't want to move past Black Cat. I mean it's kind
of happened, didn't it? So, those are my comments there. Secondly, Councilman
Palmer, you asked the question of all the conditions that were talked about, which ones
can you live with or not live with, for example. The ones about off site sidewalks --
development as it comes it will build the sidewalks. That is often and I will say always a
requirement of the developments when they move forward. I mean kids drive -- almost
all these kids are going to drive or take a bus to school. There will be so few people
walking to the school in the first few years, until there is development either across the
street or Mr. Hunter's next door, whatever it may be. So, I think, if I were to choose, I
would say do not ask for the school to build those off-site sidewalks. I will stand for any
questions.
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De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I have got a question. You know, given the industry that you're
in, do you have any, you know, further comment on -- on something that really probably
has nothing to do with you, but the -- the situation with the road and -- and your
experience in similar situations with connectivity -- connectivity to the parcels.
Yorgason: Madam Mayor and Councilman Palmer, I assume you're talking about the
stub streets that have been asked for -- or maybe provided to, but maybe don't build it
now.
Palmer: Uh-huh.
Yorgason: Oh, I have lots of opinions to that. You have a late night here, you probably
are not going to make a decision tonight is my guess, but you may be comfortable
enough to accept the conditions that's being proposed on -- got a hunch that you maybe
want to go over this and come back and make a final decision. My opinion is is
whenever an applicant comes forward, whether it's a school or developer, if there is a
stub road supposed to go forward, if it's a phased development, then, you stub it when
the phase goes in. Kind of simple. But make sure it's provided for. I think that's asking
a lot of the school to build it up front and, yet, maybe they are not ever planning on -- at
least not for ten years building the residential, because there is really not a residential
application coming forward. So, that makes it a little bit unique and so in that regard
make sure it's provided for, so that the adjacent parcel is not landlocked. I do think that
connectivity to the north and in the west will be required for that future applicant.
De Weerd: Now, the problem with being around here for a while is we learn lessons
along the way and sidewalks have been a real issue for our citizens. We have
sidewalks that go nowhere, don't connect, and we get a lot of criticism for them. We
also get a lot of criticism because we are swallowing up open space and one of the
reasons we haven't wanted to go west past McDermott is to fill in a lot of that open
space, growing from the inside out, which you get better economies of scale with your
services, you start getting connectivity and some day we may not be auto oriented or so
reliant on the car that when we keep land use planning in this fashion we will never
change behaviors or safety issues. Safety issues of our public safety has been -- not
every student will be able to drive and I have had four teenagers, none of them took the
bus, because that's not cool and that's unfortunate, because we need more students
wanting to take the bus, but they also need to have safe alternatives as well and
sidewalks are those alternatives. It is a chicken and an egg thing. Sidewalks come with
development and it's an off-site requirement, so you can't enforce them, unless you say
it's a safety issue and unless that is addressed we can't continue to approve
developments that are going to cause safety issues. So, I don't know, I hear our
community say all these different things and I have heard it all tonight, too, what do you
want? I want a high school, but I disagree, there are open fields between McDermott
and Linder Road and not all of them are entitled or committed. There are -- there is
land available. So, we want a high school. Where are we going to put it is the question
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and it's, fortunately, not my decision to make, but -- and for development I would
imagine that the development community wants a safe community, too, and your
question -- my question to you is why wouldn't you want sidewalks.
Yorgason: Madam Mayor, I was looking for that question, so there it is. The question
was posed by Councilman Palmer if you were to select any type of conditions, which
would you not require or which would be less necessary. Why would you not want
sidewalks? Of course you want sidewalks. We want sidewalks everywhere. ACHD has
got a vehicle registration initiative this fall to try to increase registration fees. So, there
is more money for, among other things, safe routes to school, of which I support, and so
to suggest I don't want sidewalks is not what I'm suggesting, but if we were to try to
decide how to spend taxpayer dollars that have been already predetermined for the
bond for the school, maybe that's one that doesn't necessarily need to happen right
now, as it will come as development comes forward.
De Weerd: My family and I rode our bikes out on Ustick. It has no shoulder and it has
fast moving cars. It is kind of frightening what we are talking about right now.
Yorgason: Yeah. Madam Mayor, I would think the road widening is actually to ensure
the bike lane safety you're talking about is because bikes don't usually drive on the
sidewalk. I would think that's actually more important given the distance of where these
homes are today.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Yorgason: You're welcome. Again thank you.
De Weerd: We will hear from this gentleman and, then, we are going to take a ten
minute break. I'm sorry. Well, Council, I -- this would be a second testimony. I --
Blood: I didn't stand for questions. I'm happy to.
De Weerd: I don't think there are any questions, but I would ask Council do you want to
hear a second comment?
Milam: Madam Mayor? If you will -- I thought he was coming up to see if he -- because
you didn't stand for questions. I guess that my -- I don't have a problem, unless it
creates a problem for everybody else in the audience that, then, also want a second
testimony. So, I don't know -- if it's just one quick --
De Weerd: At this point we will go ahead and take a break and reconvene in ten
minutes.
(Recess: 10:01 p.m. to 10:11 p.m.)
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De Weerd: If I can get everyone to take their seats. Okay. It appears that we won't
take second testimonies, but is there anyone who hasn't testified that would like to
testify? Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Depold: My name is Fred Depold. 5946 El Gato Lane.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Depold: Madam Mayor, Council. I just have a couple points. One that I think hasn't
been covered here tonight is the fact that the property to the north, the Heartland
Property Management or the Trilogy development, they are -- not only are they willing to
do the road and pay for the road upon annexation, but your master pathway, once that's
all built out, is going to be an awesome connectivity back into The Oaks development
and there has been a lot of talk about safety and -- and to me that's -- that's huge. I
mean that path is, what, eight feet wide paved and not to mention all the new roads and
curb, gutter and sidewalks. So, I think that's something that needs to be pointed out,
that they are wanting to move forward with as quickly as possible. The other thing is
there has been some talk about, you know, the new need for a fire station and if I
remember correctly when The Oaks was first approved on the corner of McDermott and
McMillan -- so, this is on the south side -- southeast corner, there was a fire station
slated there ten years ago. That was part of their conditions of approval. I don't know if
the fire department can remember that, but there was a -- there was a parcel already in
the city's name for that and it's since disappeared. Had something to do with who took
over and you guys replatted and approved all that. So, there was a need already for a
fire department and it was -- it was slated for that area. So, why it went away I'm not
sure. And, then, the other thing -- as I'm sitting here hearing about fire response and I'm
looking at all these fire sprinklers, there is 40 fire sprinklers in this room and so I'm sure
that this new modern school is going to have, I don't know, 5,000 fire sprinklers and, you
know, they are connecting water all the way from the new well, McDermott and
McMillan, all the way into their project, plus Ustick and Black Cat, they are going to
have the loop that's going to be the fire flow with 5,000 sprinklers -- I'm sure that, you
know, helps with the -- you know, the -- if there is a fire they are going to be swimming
there is going to be so much water and so I'm not sure how that plays into it, but in my
mind that it reduces the need for -- you know, we talked about the -- the response time
for a fire truck. If there is a fire they are going to be swimming, because we will have
the water in the area and the other thing is I do want to support -- I work with Gerald
Flower and he is -- I know he wrote a letter to ask for sewer to go to and through to his
parcel and so I just wanted to be a voice for him to say, you know, if you're going to
extend sewer to the other neighbors, it only seems right that he would get that as well
and other developments are required for the same thing. So, with that any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you. No. I -- I didn't remember a fire -- had on -- in The Oaks, but I
did remember there was something for Western Ada Recreation District and the pool.
Depold: That was there.
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De Weerd: But I didn't remember the fire department thing. But maybe Sonya can look
that up while we are chatting. Perhaps.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Council, may -- may -- would you, please, repeat the question. I
was looking up something else.
De Weerd: Oh. Well, the testimony was that at The Oaks when they had their approval
at the corner of McMillan and McDermott, there was a pad for a fire department. I knew
that they had the swimming pool and -- and the park that they were working with
Western Ada Recreation District, but I didn't remember a fire department.
Allen: Yeah. That went away.
De Weerd: Okay.
Allen: It was originally proposed and they did an amendment a while back and that's all
residential now.
De Weerd: Good memory.
Depold: My point was there was a -- a need was already recognized in the area and
there was one plan for that area and it went away for whatever reason. But all the
homes are still planning to be built.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further testimony? Okay. Would the applicant like to come
and address any questions and -- and to wrap this up. Please restate your name and
address for the record.
G.Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name is Gary Allen.
Address is 601 West Bannock in Boise. So, what we have -- we have heard tonight is
that the city has done a really good job and detail -- done a lot of great detailed planning
for growth and we have also heard that the school district has done a lot of really good
detailed planning for growth as well, but those two plans have come into some conflict
and I think the question is whether the conflict is great enough that it would prevent a
school from going forward in this -- the location where it was planned by the district here
and I don't think that it is and let me talk to the -- the major issues. I do think we may
need some more time, but I do think there is -- there is a place where we can come
together here and let me talk about the major aspects of that. The first one is the
second street access. That, you know, we have an agreement with the developer who
is going to come in and seek annexation for that and provide a fire site. That's really
good news for everybody. Now, I think we like -- and we think we have presented you a
condition, if you were inclined to move forward tonight, that would address that and, you
know, allow for the contingencies to be addressed. If you are thinking along the lines of
-- where Counsel Member Borton was suggesting, you want to map out those
contingencies a little bit more, we don't have a problem with that. So, we -- we could,
you know, spend a little time with staff and otherwise to try and reach a more filled out
condition regarding the second access and the fire site. Now, let me talk about safety a
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little bit, because that's been a big issue tonight. So, obviously, there is a lot done in a
school site to think about safety. So, this -- the building is designed to meet all current
life safety codes. It's got fire alarms with voice evacuation and fire sprinklers throughout
the building. It's a pretty safe site from a fire standpoint. Now, what we have heard
tonight is there are some trade-off s; right? If you don't allow a school to be built here,
you're -- you know, you're not alleviating the crowding we have got in other places and
those schools are over capacity. They have got their own safety issues and so we need
this school to help alleviate those. We didn't ever talk about this, but there is an
emergency access that meets all the code requirements out to McDermott. So, there is
a second access for emergency vehicles, which is exclusive of the connector on
McMillan. Let's talk about the fire station a little bit. The fire station is -- you know, it's --
it's not all that you want in terms of the -- in terms of the acts -- of the response times,
but it's only 2.9 miles away on a rural road and the testimony was that the police were
not concerned about response times to this facility and you have a resource officer on
site. So, there is a lot that's going on there from a standpoint of safety. We think that's
an adequate program. That is probably more than you require of most applicants who
come before you. Here is what we -- I would suggest, though, on this and other -- if you
think more is required, give some direction to staff to work out or condition with us, you
know, because you, in fact, have an obligation with any conditional use permit if you
don't think you can grab it based on the application in front of you, to tell the applicant
what they could do to get an approval, we want to know that and that -- that applies to
the safety issue, as well as the others. Off site sidewalks was a big topic of discussion.
You know, our understanding was that the staff was okay with the busing option and that
the sidewalks naturally in most of these circumstances fill in as the -- as development
comes through and builds its own sidewalks and we think that's an adequate solution
here and -- but if you don't, then, let's give some direction to staff to try and work -- work
something out. But, you know, I mean that it's -- it's setting a very different precedent
than you ever have as -- as Mr. Yorgason said. I was really glad to hear his developer's
perspective up here that you're now asking applicants to put in a great deal of offsite
improvements, which opens up a bunch of cans of worms I'm sure that you're -- that
you're familiar with. So, I want to make sure -- we need to make sure that the
conditions include all of the ACHD conditions. That's something I'm not sure we -- at
this hour we could be comfortable with. And, then, finally, is the Woodside access. So,
I'm confident with what we heard tonight from the city staff that we can work out a deal
with Mr. Hunter on sewer, so that I think we can address that issue. I don't know that
we are going to come to agreement. We are going to need you to decide whether we
have to build a road at this point. As you heard from Mr. Yorgason -- and his
experiences is similar to mine -- if you have a future phase of the project, you don't stub
the roads until that phase is built and -- and that's what we are proposing. Maybe we
can -- there is something to talk about in terms of where the right of way is located.
There aren't a lot of choices there, but -- you know. So, we think a little bit of time would
help us get closer. There may still be things that you need to resolve. Again, give us
some guidance and see if we can come back with something that meets the Council's
concerns. I mean we do have a big concern, however, about putting public dollars into
building a road that at this point only benefits that developer. Okay. And so I think that
covers the major -- the major issues. Now, we think there is -- you know, again, the
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school district thinks this is the best location for this high school from the standpoint of
meeting its needs. We hear you as to your concerns about how it fits in with the city's
orderly growth, but we also think there is a way to figure that out in a way that works
and so I would like to get your direction and see if we can address that. So, that's all I
have and I would be happy to take any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Gary.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, here is where I'm sitting on it. I'm -- I'm in favor of it happening.
Councilman Borton's point about figuring out how to make the second access, you
know, more in stone, so that it will definitely happen no matter what, one way or another,
by the time the school opens -- need to figure out how to make that happen. So, yeah,
we are going to need more time. I want staff to be less against it. So, whatever
conditions or anything that you guys can come up with together to -- to make it so that --
while you still may be against it, that it's more palatable. And with regards to the
Woodside access, I want to hear what -- you know, what the rest of the Council thinks
on this. To give you a reminder about precedent, I was against it when we did this, but
with the Norco building at Eagle and Overland, Rackham Way was going to be sufficient
for his initial development, but we required Norco to construct that road and stub it to
the neighbor, Zamzow's -- and Zamzow's will need that stuff. It's an anticipation of a
future development. I didn't think it needed to be done. His plan -- Mr. Kissler's plan, as
he explained, was to build that later, so that they can share in the cost with future
developers, but we required them to go ahead and build that road. So, if we want to go
off what was done before, then, we should make them build it. If we want to go off what
is more realistic to me, as Mr. Yorgason explained, we shouldn't make them build it, we
should ensure that there is the ability for them to build it or however that process may
work usually. Once all that's figured out -- and I don't know how much time you need to
make all that happen -- then I'm in favor of approving it.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other questions? Any questions for Mr. Allen? Mrs. Little
Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Just want to make sure you said with more time you
would go through the ACHD -- because I reread it again this afternoon and it feels like
there is a lot of stuff in there. So, just wanted to make sure that you are willing to go
through and include that in the plan to complete it with more time.
G.Allen: Madam Mayor, Council Member Roberts, yes.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, how much time is needed to --
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Before we close the public hearing it may be -- maybe it would be prudent to call
on Lieutenant Harper just to confirm and maybe give some final thoughts in regard to
the police department's, you know, concerns or maybe to confirm like he had mentioned
earlier on the record.
De Weerd: Lieutenant. Yes. No, you can do it right there.
Harper: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Again, I have heard a lot
myself tonight and I think the important part we talked about kind of the expansion of the
city and -- and really extending ourselves out to the west and I guess I have learned
quite a bit from this public hearing as well, which is always nice, but I guess I want to
reiterate, you know, the -- the second public access that was agreed upon rather easily
through some -- some discussions and, then, having an SRO in the school -- again,
when it comes to safety and security, we have it right there in the school through,
obviously, some contractual agreements to -- to make that happen. We will have a law
enforcement presence in that school and -- which will be a benefit beyond just safety
and security and response times, looking at the numbers that were provided for priority
three calls, our high priority calls, there is -- they almost mirror what our average is
citywide, which is nice. And, then, there was talk about sidewalks and -- and just that
area in general. There is lots of areas of this city that we cover that are Swiss cheese,
as -- I don't know if that's some legal term, but -- sure -- sure -- I doubt it is, but we are
going to go with it. Throughout the city --
De Weerd: When someone offers it we will all say it.
Harper: Okay. But it's -- we -- we respond to the -- the sorts of areas throughout the
city, from the north, south, east, and west -- or at least north, south, and west, not the
east. So, we are used to that. We understand the challenges and we are going to
provide that service regardless of where it's at in our community, because that's what
the community expects from its police department. So, again, I think we have -- we
have beaten -- beaten the horse on -- on safety and security and -- and that's pretty
much what I have. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Lieutenant. Any further questions for staff, the applicant, or any
of those that provided comments this evening? Okay. If Council wants to continue this,
I think it -- as Mr. Allen has pointed out, it would be helpful to really point out the -- the
areas that you would like staff to bring further detail back. If you want new staff
comments, as Sonya mentioned, there -- there is a draft that can be considered, but I
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think your discussion and any comments and concerns would be really helpful for staff,
the applicant, and all of those still in attendance and -- and perhaps even watching
online.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Am I allowed to change my mind on something?
De Weerd: Yes.
Palmer: So, as I was pondering more on the Norco situation, that was difference in that
-- that, you know, future parcels that -- that Norco is required to build that road to attach
to, wouldn't have been blocked off. In fact, those parcels would have been the ones
that would be -- build the road right off their own property that connects to Overland.
So, it was a different situation that doesn't really -- doesn't match as well as I initially
thought on this. So, now I'm leaning towards thinking this -- the district should either -- I
don't know how they do it, whether they should build it off the bat or agree to build it at
the time that it ends up being needed to connect to whatever would be developed on
the Woodside parcel. I guess I will have to say I'm less decided about my opinion on
that.
De Weerd: Maybe some options --
Palmer: Sure.
De Weerd: -- or some thoughts.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I just -- there is a lot of moving parts here. You know, I mean it's awesome that
what was stated is done to -- with the second access and some talking points that have
been concerns -- that were concerns in Planning and Zoning Commission meeting,
whether, you know, we need -- anywhere from, you know, the second access to
infrastructure and so on, et cetera, but I think going forward I think that there is some
things that we need to hammer out and I think that by closing the public hearing and
voting on it this evening is probably a little bit -- would be too premature. Some -- some
-- some guidance that I would probably give would be to really hone in the
contingencies for the north property, you know, I -- as a municipality I don't -- I wouldn't -
- I would not like having -- I want it to be exact and crystal clear and whatever you guys
bring back, if that's, indeed, where we go, to be something that I stand for. I think that
we need to have discussions about the Woodside property. I understand Jim's concern
about being landlocked. That's a hypothetical conditions of approval, whatever. I think
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that we need to talk more in regard to that as well. Just reading through my notes real
quick. The police department mentioned -- confirmed some things for me and -- those
are my two biggest things. So, I'm sure that others up here will give more guidance, but
those are just two things that I thought of real quickly.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Everything has been hammered out so many times tonight, but at this point I am
-- I am in favor of this project. I believe there are -- there is a little bit of heartburn with
some of the issues, but they did most of what the Planning and Zoning asked them to
do and as long as we are adding in all of the, you know, ACHD conditions and
improvements and building the road to McMillan, I think that maybe even just an
agreement on that northern road, which they have some sort of an agreement, but if the
-- that property does not get annexed, you know, some -- at least let us know what the
plan B is, they are going to build it and they are going to pay for it, I'm assuming that,
like you said, they will know that before the school is built, they are not going to come
up it, the school will be fully built and, then, they find out they can't build the road, they
will find out early in the planning stages if the application is coming forward soon and
making sure the Woodside property isn't landlocked, because to me those are like --
those are the most important things at this point, knowing that, you know, the police
time is really good, fire it could be, maybe, depends on if Fire Station No. 2, if there is
anybody there or not or if they are on a different fire, we have been working on Fire
Station Six for like five years or so and it's not built yet, so having a piece of property
that is designated for a fire station does not mean that there is going to be a fire station
there in a year, two years, or even five years and I think that just needs to be really
clear. Obviously, when -- when it's -- when the time is right, when it's available, when
the funding is available to build the station and the need is -- is great enough, it will be
built, but it's a very long process and I just want to make sure that everybody really
understands that, but I think we should, you know, continue this for as soon as we
possibly can, giving staff and applicant long enough to get the -- get the ducks in a row.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: We are looking at each other here. I have appreciated the discussion and the
input and depth of work that's been done on this. One of the questions, kind of working
backwards, that was asked -- I think, Gary, you mentioned it kind of in your closing, that,
really, the crux of this is the -- is the conflict so great that there is no conceivable path
forward. Don't believe that it is. I think, you know, the devil is in the details that we are
discussing now and -- and so I will give some comments I think to the applicant and the
staff to aid some of the discussion. The one thing that I disagree with is the concern
about whether this is patchwork or Swiss cheese development. It is. It kind of is. One
of the things I think we have to own is this very well might be a byproduct of the types of
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land use decisions we make when we grow rapidly to the west and it's difficult to -- to
plan in the perfect world where there is a school or we wrestle with public safety
concerns as well. Trying to grow perfectly from the inside out in our district doesn't
necessarily have the benefit -- when you look at the map, the benefit to -- to acquire
property that fits its purpose in the perfect world. So, is this -- is this somewhat
patchwork? It is, but I don't know if there is another way that allows the district to meet
its needs. So, I don't think that factor is fatal to the application itself. The conditions of
approval is where all the rubber meets the road and I have great concern, I don't think
the draft really are conditions of approval as we understand them. When we see
conditions of approval they are fully vetted with all of our various departments providing
detailed analysis that would explain exactly how a project like this might be approved.
We are not even close to there yet. So, I appreciate you mentioning we use that term
somewhat loosely with kind of the first sketch of it, but if it's going forward -- and to
Councilman Palmer's point, we reference all of the other conditions. There is a -- there
is probably a lot of them that we need to add or flush out a lot of these -- these
concerns. In that process I appreciate the -- the district's effort in creating a solution to
the north and -- and, hopefully, it sounds like they are open to the idea of what I think is
a critical requirement and it sounds like Council might agree, that construction of the
road to McMillan is completed before certificate of occupancy. I don't think the condition
as written has all the details that are necessary, because that added element would be
no matter what and if it's that district expense to be reimbursed later somehow, so be it.
But the CO cannot be held up for lack of constructing a road. There is a lot of work that
probably has to go to craft that type of condition, but that seems to be critical, because
without it we are in a world of hurt. I think all the comments with regards to the east-
west connections, Hethe comment -- Hethe's comments I think are well taken. That's a
difficult situation, but -- but it seems appropriate to require that to be part of this
application and very well might benefit the value of the parcels to the south of the school
district's property and their future development, that cost might be recouped however
those might be developed when those are sold off, so that should be included
somehow. I -- we at times have applicants who can have the ability to acquire and
utilize sidewalk improvements offsite and have cooperation with area developers.
These offsite sidewalks -- in particular I think it's a mile on McDermott, among others,
seem to be excessive in light of what is offered and the condition to be flushed out. The
safe route to -- or, excuse me, the busing -- safe busing to school, you know, there was
referencing of some agreement to do so within a mile and a half radius where it
normally isn't allowed, but to flush out that commitment, that will sort of be the alternate
solution to acquiring the off site sidewalks. Go through, see if there is any other -- I
think those were the main ones, probably I'm supportive of what the district is trying to
do in the -- and kind of the box they have been put in and believe the glass is half full
and we can craft conditions that meet all of these needs. It takes a little additional
cooperation between the parties. I think they can get there. But those I guess are my
remarks hopefully to continue to move the ball towards what could be an approval.
And, Madam Mayor, it's not -- this is a lawyer answer. It's not an exhaustive list. Just
because the -- the red line conditions of approval -- these are a week old I think as far
as what we have seen. So, there is probably, you know, mays and shalls that -- where
language would have to be flushed out as well. There could be more things. So, when
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this comes back in -- on the 16th, perhaps, or the 23rd there may be some additional
ones, but those are the ones that jumped out to me.
De Weerd: And I -- I certainly think that if the Council's direction is for staff to bring back
recommendations or -- or -- that we build our findings on considering instead of denial
approval, what would those look like. It might bring some of those additional things to
light. I am curious on the parcel that gives the annexation path that the Spriggel or
something like that -- we usually don't annex without a plan. There is another thing that
we are -- we are compromising on. What are some options from legal or planning
perspective on a lot of what we ask we get through annexation and, then, we lose that ;
right? Are there any -- anything that we can build in to -- to that regard. I would ask the
school district -- I have heard on several occasions from Ada County Highway District
that -- or COMPASS that we don't have a Safe Routes To School plan from the school
district. They have a measure out in front of our voters on the registration fee that is
also intended for Safe Routes To School -- is I would like the school district to take a
look at this area and see if there is a plan that we can put in place to put in front of Ada
County Highway District that would bring connectivity -- some kind of a safe pathway --
if it's through The Oaks or down a -- down McMillan or something, because those roads
are two lane rural roads that have no shoulders and don't have connected sidewalks
and not every child is going to take a bus or have a car or be driven. Safety is
paramount. It is our number one responsibility and if there is some plan you can put
into place, so that you can propose it to Ada County Highway District to get it on their
radar early and fast, that would be certainly a preference.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. -- whatever your name is. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Ty.
De Weerd: It's late.
Palmer: And, then, you know, awkward situations like this where there is going to be a
time period where there won't necessarily be, you know, access from every possible
mode of travel to get there in a hundred percent perfectly safe way, I think rather than it
being government's responsibility to ensure that every child makes it there safely, that
we encourage the parents to take responsibility for their -- their own children and if -- if
there's not going to be a normal way for them to get here, that they figure out how to
make it happen until development provides those hard surface walkways off of the
roadway.
De Weerd: But also that -- I know that the Woodside cross-access and -- and sewer
were mentioned. I think there was a note of the Flower property that's south of it, just --
from our staff perspective, what are -- what are the options and -- and how does that
look and -- and those kind of things, too. I don't know if you answered, Warren, the
Flower property. I know you mentioned that Woodside would have access.
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Stewart: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so we did do the analysis to
determine that Woodside can probably serve their entire parcel with a connection to the
school district's sewer line. We did not look at the Flower parcel to determine whether
or not there is enough depth there where the sewer could extend that far. We would
have to do that analysis in order to determine whether or not that was feasible. I don't
know if it is at this point. Both of those parcels, the Woodside parcel, the Flower parcel,
as well as the residential parcel that the school district is ultimately planning to build or
master plan to take access via the trunk line off of McDermott Road using an eight inch
line that runs down Ustick and could stub into all of those parcels. So, that was the
master plan for service to all those parcels. That can still happen in the future when that
line is built that -- that -- that mechanism for providing service can still happen. So,
whether or not it comes through this school district piece or not does not preclude them
from obtaining service. It may have an impact on the cost and the timing of that, but it
does not prohibit them from obtaining service the way the master plan intended in the
first place. That's why we are not requiring the school district to extend those services
to those parcels, because that's not what was planned, but if they want to work with the
school district, we can -- we can accommodate that. But we are not going to require it
to be extended, because --
De Weerd: No, I didn't mean it to be a requirement at all, but it was brought up and we
-- we hadn't heard anything regarding that. So, just to have that in the comments.
Stewart: Okay.
De Weerd: Anything further from Council?
Milam: Well, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I think you have a good list. Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Well -- and I think that maybe we should hear from the applicant, because we
should have a plan for Spriggel and we don't generally just blanket annex property and
just so it can be a bridge to another piece of property. So, maybe that's something they
can -- I don't know -- throw together or at least give it -- you know, put something
together before we approve this.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There may -- well, the applicant's coming forward. Maybe not.
De Weerd: Come on forward.
Adams: Matthew Adams. 462 East Shore Drive, Eagle, Idaho.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Adams: We have a development plan, a concept land use plan for the Spriggel parcel.
We, in early meetings with staff, understood that staff did not want us to submit that, so
at that time we did not. We have developed that plan, because that's the only way you
can determine the correct route for the sewer and the water through that parcel. So, we
have it available and we are more than happy to share it with staff.
De Weerd: Sonya.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Council, one of the draft provisions requires that an application
for a modification to the development agreement be submitted prior to any development
occurring on the Spriggel parcel, which would require a concept development plan at
that time. So, that's kind of the catch on that one, if that works for Council. Otherwise,
no, staff would like to see a concept plan. That was fine.
Adams: We will send it over and you can determine what you do with that. That would
be great.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Adams: Or if it affects that condition in any way. Thank you.
Allen: Also, Madam Mayor, if I may, there was some discussion a couple of times -- I
heard about ACHD conditions of approval. There are actually ACHD conditions
included in the staff report in Exhibit B. So, those are there for your review.
De Weerd: Or entertainment, uh?
Allen: Yes.
De Weerd: Yeah. So, any other points that you want staff to comment on in particular?
Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Can I make a couple of just quick comments that -- about the process. One, I
don't know who -- somebody in the public said it seems like it's not all figured out yet.
It's because we do things in this forum. Many of you know that. Some don't. It's public.
You get to see sausage get made a little bit. Larger projects are more cumbersome, but
this is the way it works. The second -- probably all of us would share a big hats off to
our Planning and Zoning Commission. Those commissioners who took a lot of the --
the first process and found challenges and allowed the applicant to come up with some
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solutions before it even got to us, so they don't get enough appreciation for what they
do. So, the Planning and Zoning Commission in Meridian did a -- did a great job.
De Weerd: I think you could probably add planning staff and -- and all of those that --
that take a critical look at all of our applications. They don't really get enough
recognition either. So, our thanks to you.
Borton: So true. Absolutely.
De Weerd: Anything further?
Borton: No. That's it.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, we will need a date to consider continuing this to.
Borton: Madam Mayor, I would move that we continue H-2018-0075 to October 23rd.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to continue this item to October 23rd.
Any discussion? All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
F. Public Hearing for Intent to Convey Real Property (Old City
Hall)
to the Meridian Development Corporation
De Weerd: And thank you all for sticking with us until five to 11:00. Okay. Item 9-F is a
public hearing with the intent to convey real -- real property. We do still have items on
our agenda, if we can ask you to have your conversations outside. Okay. Okay. We
will open this public hearing and, Mr. Nary, are you introducing this?
Nary: Madam Mayor, I sure can. So, on -- on your agenda now is the -- the public
hearing to convey real property and, then, there is an ordinance that's attached to that.
For the record, this is about the Old City Hall property at 33 East Idaho. This is in
relation to the RFP that was done in conjunction with MDC a few months ago that was
accepted by the City Council and the MDC board. This is the public process to
determine whether or not the property can be conveyed. The ordinance is -- can be
approved tonight. It doesn't have to be approved tonight. If it isn't going to be approved
tonight, then, we would need direction on what other information, if any, to gather. You
have in your packet the original proposal for the RFP for the property to be done. There
is a draft -- or, excuse me, there is the draft MOU with MDC. So, there is piece of work.
So, you know, the decision was to simply agree to convey the property pursuant to
conditions that would be, again, part of the conditions we would be working out with
ACHD as part of this process. Additionally, there is in your packet two other items.
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There is a draft MOU -- and Mr. Lakey can explain that from MDC's side and that is the
working agreement between MDC and the successful RFP proposers for the
development of the Old City Hall site and, then, third, there is an appraisal that was
done at the city's request of that site and takes into account as much as could be --
could be done in a fairly short time period, trying to look at comparables and giving you
some valuation of that appraiser's estimate of value of the property, minus the cost of
demolition. I think that's the basics to get started and I think there probably is more
information that may be needed from MDC or the proposer or Mr. Ariel has been kind of
managing the project from the city side. But that is the framework to get started.
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Did I miss it or did we include it in here -- I know several
of us had concerns about the New Venture Lab and letting them stay in there as long as
possible, but I know that we have got the 30 day clause, but we also didn't want to see
what we have seen before where someone's exited and, then, the building isn't ready to
be torn down or whatever. You know, I have had some feedback from area businesses
that were concerned about that.
Nary: Yes. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we have had -- and Council
Member Little Roberts. We have had some preliminary discussions with Mr. Ritter.
Again, I think that's part of the detail of when that would need to be vacated. We talked
about a winter -- late winter type of period where the vacation would have to occur.
Again, part of it is based on when the demolition would occur, which is planned to be
somewhat in the spring, but those details would need to be worked out. We have talked
to Mr. Ritter, he is aware that at some point a vacation -- you, obviously, wanted as
much lead time as possible, which we were in favor of as well from the city's side and,
then, I think that's a detail that would be part of the MDC transfer agreement.
De Weerd: Cameron, do you have anything you want to put out there right now?
Ariel: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just quickly. We have -- we do have,
you know, the draft agreement that Todd and Bill put together. We also have, you know,
the ordinance before you. We have the appraisal. So, if you have any questions about
that, if there is anything that the Council would like to see in that, discussed in that,
now's the time to kind of bring that to us, so that we can try to work that out or -- that
into the agreement. Again, just kind of given the timing of the project, we want to be
moving forward if -- if that is the decision of the Council.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
Ariel: Here to answer any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Cameron, I have a picture -- I have a question about page 89 of the appraisal.
Meridian City Council
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Ariel: Okay.
Milam: Sorry. I'm just kidding.
Ariel: No problem.
Milam: I know it's late. It's late.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could add one more thing. So, there
had been earlier discussion by the Council -- and I think Mr. Lakey can address from
MDC's side as well -- of timing and execution of this agreement and the agreement --
the project actually going and moving forward and there are some conditions in the
MOU with MDC and Novembrewhisky on those types of conditions and assurances that
buildings will get torn down timely, the building permits will get issued timely and things
like that. One of the things that isn't in the draft MOU for the city's purchase and sale
with MDC, because MDC has a revert clause in that agreement with Novembrewhisky,
we could -- and, again, I haven't discussed with Mr. Lakey, but have a similar clause for
the city. So, if the -- if the need is is that the project doesn't happen for whatever reason
and this property, then, is returned to MDC, that the city would, then, have the right to
repurchase it back from MDC for what MDC had previously paid the city for. So, we can
add that condition, because that was a question that come up in the prior discussions,
as well as since we have issued this draft. So, I just wanted to put that out there and
Mr. Lakey, obviously, can comment on it. We haven't had an opportunity to discuss it
since we have had these drafts exchanged, so --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I'm a simple guy and that may be the most agreeable thing I said tonight.
Between MOU and MDC -- oh, man, there was a million acronyms, so -- and you may
have just said the answer to what I'm about to ask, but just so that I make sure that I
understand. So, approving this tonight doesn't prohibit Council deciding on, you know,
points where we want to say, okay, this has to be done by this date, this has to be done
by this date, this has to be done by this date and if any one of those benchmarks or
whatever aren't met, then, the city can say we are taking it back. So, we can still set
those later by approving this tonight ; right?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes. So, all that -- the only question
tonight that the Council is being asked -- and -- and it doesn't have to be decided tonight
-- is are we willing to transfer the property from the city to MDC for a price and right now
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the price that has been proposed in the RFP was 565,000 dollars. There is an appraisal
for a different price and that's part of your conversation. But all that's being -- all that's
being requested is is the city willing to transfer it for a value and what that value is.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? So, the number is determined in this tonight?
Nary: Yes.
Palmer: Okay. So, I'm -- I want to move forward with it, approve it, but I -- I would like
all six of us to agree on the price of -- you know, I don't know if it causes any delay or
anything to do this a week from now, to maybe have a chance to have a discussion with
all six of us as to whether we are good with, you know, what was proposed, the amount,
or if -- because now that we have an appraisal, which, you know, we wanted it for a
reason, if we want to discuss a different amount of money.
Nary: And to answer your question, you do not have to make a decision tonight. What
that impact may be Mr. Lakey could probably answer it, but I don't believe that it's time
critical to do it today.
Bernt: Madam Mayor? Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: My thought process on the -- on the appraisal -- I believe if -- you know, is it -- is
it undervalued a little bit? You know, the -- the -- what was proposed by
Novembrewhisky? Probably. But, you know, I'm not -- I'm not convinced that if it were
to be sold at auction that it would be sold for much more than -- than what
Novembrewhisky proposed price is, to be honest with you. That -- it's -- it's -- it's an
interesting building. It's not a new building. It's an older building. Sort of an -- I'm not
going to say a weird spot, but like in a spot where not a lot can be done with it, other
than maybe office space and so I don't know if there is a big price tag put on that type of
a use and so I would be in favor of approving what Novembrewhisky and Pacific
Companies have offered to buy it for and to proceed this evening.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Councilman Bernt, the appraisal was done as if the property was bare land. No
building on it. So, that is the number that is in the appraisal is if that building -- after the
building is gone. So, it has nothing to do with the building or -- it's over an acre in
downtime Meridian. I mean I don't know what it would sell for either. It seems a little -- I
thought it was a little higher than -- than I expected it to be. But it isn't including the
building. So, I'm -- I'm kind of stuck, because I like -- I think maybe the -- the proposal
was a little low, the appraisal is a little high and there is a reason we got the appraisal.
If we were just going to ignore the appraisal, then, why would we pay money to get one
in the first place. So, I think -- I think ignoring it completely isn't the responsible thing to
do here.
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De Weerd: Although I think the appraisal did not consider the cost of demolition and --
and I think that was noted in there, that you -- that was the price minus the demolition.
That's how I read it anyway. Maybe someone could clarify that for us. Mr. Lakey, do
you have some comments?
Lakey: Madam Mayor and Council Members, for the record Todd Lakey, legal counsel
for MDC. Address 141 East Carlton Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. So, I will I guess make
some initial comments and, obviously, you may have some questions on how we would
approach things or how we may approach things together. I guess -- I mean you're all
aware that we got two proposals and the first proposal was an offer to have the city pay
somebody to take it to the tune of about 1.6. The proposal that we selected has the city
being paid 565,000 for the property and, you know, you have different opinions on
value. The Pacific Companies -- we know their expertise, they use that expertise and
experience in coming up with their value. Maybe it was a little low, but maybe it wasn't.
I think the -- and the appraisal came in at -- at 842. For me I didn't -- I didn't see the
need to go into looking at the pluses and minuses and the -- the goods and the bads
about the appraisal. I think the appraisal came in a little -- came in higher, but it was
also in the range. We are not talking about them undervaluing by double or triple or --
or something like that. So, I think -- and our request as MDC is to stay with the amount
that was suggested in the proposal that was approved and selected by both entities and
I guess the points I want to make on that are the fact that we both accepted that and
kind of knowing the number, but, really, I think we all feel that the project itself is a game
changer and it's probably not an understatement to say that it's a huge game changer
for downtown and it will be not just the property itself, but it will be a catalyst for the rest
of the downtown when it comes to commercial and residential development and I think
that's what I look at. The proposal estimated that the -- the annual tax revenue
generated from the site would be about 130,000, but that doesn't include -- as I visited
with them didn't include the land value, it doesn't include Option C, which are those
properties between the Heritage Building and the MDC Unbound properties, that they
are still trying to get and hopefully they get. That's also a static figure. That doesn't
account for the economic growth that's going to occur as a result of this. So, I think the
thing to focus on from my perspective is, sure, you got an appraisal and it shows that
they are in the ballpark, but what to really look at is the return on investment that you're
going to get. That 277,000 dollar difference is going to be recuperated quickly, rapidly
and exponentially exceeded as a result of this. So, I don't want to -- I guess my hope is
that we don't trip over nickels and step over dollars. Our request tonight is that this
Council approve a number, you know, as Bill said, you -- you can do what you want to
do, but our request is to approve a number tonight, knowing that there are some other
details to potentially work out, but give our board -- who doesn't meet as frequently as
you do, an approval at least of a number as we move forward, so we can have that in
our planning purposes -- for our planning purposes. The closing -- Council Member
Little Roberts, we are fairly flexible on that. We recognize -- and I think -- I think
Novembrewhisky recognizes and Pacific Companies recognize that it's better to have
somebody in a building and not have an empty building for a long period of time. I think
it's -- it's optimal to get folks out of it and get it knocked down sooner than later, just for
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the risk and the cost and things that are going on, but, granted, the proposal says
February, March. So, that's -- that's an appropriate time frame if that's what the Council
wants to do. That also would let you potentially hold onto the property a little bit longer
before it's actually transferred to provide that additional security if you need that.
Council Member Palmer, you mentioned the -- the kind of steps and the -- the rights of
reversion on the potential transfer and when MDC looked at the -- the 703 property,
what -- the funding the way it was then we couldn't put in a right of reversion, just the
bank wouldn't -- wouldn't go for it the way it was funded. As I visited with Mr. Roop,
they are willing to have a right of reversion up to a point. The point that we can have
rights of reversion are that the closing of the financing, which means the bank says
you're good to go, here is your money and they are digging. After -- after that point they
won't be able to get financing, because the bank doesn't want to be in a position to lose
their collateral for these 11 million dollars that they gave them, but up to that point as far
as obtaining your approvals, obtaining your -- your permits and your entitlements,
whatever other processes are there and a demonstration that you do have financing in
place, all those things can be -- can be up to that point of right of reversion. You can
say we want all these things or we have the ability to take the property back. But once
the bank gives them the 11 million dollars and they start, then, they need to be able to
have that and we have other consequences built in to the agreement, such as liquidated
damages or those kind of thing where there are consequences for missing deadlines.
With that I would be happy to answer questions if you have them.
De Weerd: Forgot to note that the value that this project will have after completed will
more than make up any difference ; right?
Lakey: Madam Mayor, that's what I was trying to articulate. I must not have done it
well. The return on investment on this property is exponential compared to the 277,000.
It's just not comparable.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I'm sure we all agree that there is no value but the -- the 130,000 dollar tax
revenue is not going to be an increase in 130,000 dollar annual tax revenue, it's just
going to mean that everybody else pays a few cents less.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
Palmer: Unless I have been misunderstanding how our property taxes work for three
years.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I apologize, I didn't want to interrupt Councilman Palmer. I was just going to add
a little bit more for the record, partly on maybe some of the comments and, then, also
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for the public who might watch this at some point in time or based on -- or suppressed in
the audience as well. The purpose of the appraisal was to give some relative value to
the property and it isn't unimportant, so I agree with Council Member Milam, it isn't
unimportant, but it is a number and -- and the reality is we all know in land business an
appraisal value is simply a number. Your property is worth what someone will actually
pay you for it. So, it's important to at least consider it, but it's also -- you have to look at
the bigger picture of the process and the reality is what's more common than not in the
urban renewal business -- and Mr. Lakey has a great deal more experience in that than
I do -- is oftentimes government is asked to provide the property at no cost to the
developer or the development agency has purchased the property and has also
requested to provide it at no cost to the development for the exact reason Mr. Lakey
stated, the return on investment stimulating -- stimulating economic development and
other reasons and that's the purpose of why the statute exists, is to allow for that. This
one is a little more unusual in our area, because the proposer was proposing to
purchase it, because they recognize the city did consider that purchase of the property
was important. So, the valuation of it is important. It isn't -- it isn't that it's necessarily
undervalued by the proposer or overvalued by the appraiser, it's simply numbers trying
to make the deal be reasonable, to be effective, to be reasonable to the public and that
the city's portion of -- of participation in that is fair and reasonable. That's really all that's
-- from the legal standpoint that's what you have to decide, is it legal and fair, is it --
excuse me. Is it fair to the public for the valuation of that property and the participation
in the project for what's being proposed. So, I know that's a lot of stuff that's probably
more for three people at home that are watching this than all of you, but I wanted to at
least put that on the record that that's the purpose of the -- of the valuation and the
appraisal and what's being proposed, so I sort of thought that that would help your
discussion.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? And, I'm sorry, I don't object to the amount, really, by any
means. To my first point, I just want all six of us here -- because especially where we
are contemplating selling a piece of property for, you know, 300,000 dollars less than it
appraised for, I would hate for Councilman Cavener or to have somebody in the public
come up and say why on earth would you sell, you know, a piece of publicly owned
property for 300,000 dollars less than it appraised for. I want him to be able to have on
the record a yes or no, whether you agree to it or not. So, I just want the six of us --
that what I would like if it doesn't cause any major problems by just pushing in one week
to have all six of us say -- have a say in it.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I'm going to be gone next week. I'm going to be in Port de Gaulle.
Palmer: But you can put your opinion on the record today.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Every week or so -- every couple weeks one of us is gone and we make
important critical decisions to the city regardless of that absence, as long as we have a
quorum. So, I don't think it would be worth waiting. Mr. Cavener saw the agenda. If he
thought it was a big deal to him, then, he -- maybe he would have said something about
extending it or continuing it on. You know, I -- I didn't have a problem with the number
until I saw the appraisal and now it's just annoying. Part of me is like why would we
waste our resources and our time getting an appraisal if we were okay with the number
to begin with. There is another number on the appraisal on page 39 that's an estimated
assessed value and I'm not saying we have to change it to that 80 percent of the
appraised value, but I still don't understand why this needs to be part of this at all if we
are ignoring it and, Mr. Nary, I heard your comments, but we had a number and we are
sticking to that number, this still seems relevant.
Bernt: Madman Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: A couple thoughts. First off, in regard to Mr. Cavener, you know, I guarantee you
he -- he feels -- he -- I know without even talking to him I know that he knows -- he
thinks this is a big deal and I -- I know what he's doing this evening and I'm a big -- I'm a
big fan that, you know, family always comes first, so that -- I know that he got whiff of
the agenda before tonight, but I just wanted to -- we all -- we all have priorities and, you
know, he's just being a good dad tonight. So, secondly, we are talking about like a 20
plus million dollar project, you know, I mean -- and I -- Todd, you -- you said something
that I completely agree with, you know, I don't -- I'm not in a position where I think it's
prudent to trip over the dimes to get to the dollars. I just think that's just bad business.
You know, I -- is it a terrible price point that Novembrewhisky and Pacific Companies are
offering for this property? No. I believe -- I believe it is fair. I think it's in the realm of
fairness. You know, I think that I -- could we get a couple more dollars for it? I'm sure
Josh would say yes. But like we are talking -- who cares amount of money. I mean it's -
- it's worth -- another point was made that, you know, the amount of revenue that we are
going to get back in taxes, it far outweighs the -- the amount of money that we are --
that we are going to debate this evening. So, just another thought.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I really don't think that I said Mr. Cavener didn't --
Bernt: I know -- I --
Milam: -- he didn't care. I said if it was a big enough deal to him.
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Bernt: I know what you meant.
Milam: -- that -- well, okay --
Bernt: I just wanted Mr. Cavener --
Milam: You just kind of made it sound like I said he didn't care --
Bernt: No. No. No. I apologize if that came out that -- I just wanted to show a little --
you know, a little love to Mr. Cavener.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Milam: No.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bernt: I know you didn't mean any ill will toward him. I apologize if you --
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, again, it's not how property taxes work and, in fact, I think because it's
within an urban renewal district as the property value increases and they are going to be
paying more taxes, I believe our revenue, the General Fund, may actually decrease
until the sunset of the district, but, regardless, our revenue is not going to increase from
property taxes. But I move we close the public hearing an item --
De Weerd: Well, I haven't even asked if there is anyone who would like to comment,
so --
Palmer: I was even going to move to approve it to be done.
Ariel: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, also just real quick I do have some information
for you in regards to the appraisal if you would like it. So, it was done as -- as though
vacant.
Milam: Yes.
Ariel: So, just a couple thoughts. That's actually both Novembrewhisky's and Pacific
Companies' proposal, as well as how this was done and they are actually both
accounting for the same demolition cost, which is 150,000 in both. So, the appraisal is
based on a 992,000 dollar appraised value, minus the 150, which gives you the 842,000
valuation, which is roughly $16.98 per square foot. The Novembrewhisky, Pacific
Companies' proposed valuation is 715,000 dollar valuation, minus the 150, which gives
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you the 565,000, which is a $15.34 per square foot value. So, you're -- you're looking at
about $1.64 per square foot difference in -- in value.
De Weerd: Okay.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. I think you nailed it when you said let's not trip over
pennies to get to dollars, because I think we are very, very fortunate to have had -- to
have this project going. It's going to be a boon to downtown and that -- I think it was
about two and a half years ago I asked a very prominent developer in the valley why
they -- he had built in Boise and built in Nampa and when is he going to build in
Meridian and he said give me some land and I will build you something. So, I think we
are very fortunate that we are getting some money for this. It may not be what the
appraised value is, but the fact that we are getting something for the land, I think is
great and we should use this number and go for it.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further questions for Mr. Lakey? Okay. Thank you.
Lakey: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And, Council Member Palmer, we can talk taxes
after we --
Palmer: Was I wrong?
Lakey: What?
Palmer: My analysis on the taxes.
De Weerd: It doesn't matter. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: At this point we still have a public hearing going on and I would really love to
hear from Denise.
La Fever: Denise La Fever. 6706 North Salvia Way.
De Weerd: Thank you.
La Fever: And -- and I guess, you know, we are talking about tripping over dimes. I
don't view a quarter million dollars as tripping over dimes and I think an appraisal needs
to mean something. I'm not overly excited to see that we are going to develop
apartments. I mean the Comprehensive Plan committee has said they want to go back
and open up this area, the downtown area, and take another look at that plan. That's
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something that the citizens have also made comments that they also want to take a look
at redeveloping this. I would be far more excited to see a 10, 16 story office building
going downtown with economic values. So, I guess in short, I'm not overly excited
about it, especially if it means we are a quarter million dollar difference. So, there is
your first record of a taxpayer that's not real excited.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Just a comment real quick, Denise. There is -- there is a -- there is a portion of
that property that's in between the two properties that Novembrewhisky owns currently
and the -- and the Heritage House that will -- if purchased will be converted into
something that you're talking about. So, they are definitely -- that -- that is -- that is in
the mix as we speak.
La Fever: Yeah. I would love to see economic, you know, business here. Instead of
having people driving off to Boise, I would like to see, you know, plottage,
redevelopment, high rises --
Bernt: Sure.
La Fever: -- the whole nine yards. We haven't even had an opportunity to discuss how
we want to redevelop that area based on the new comprehensive plan. So, I'm just
putting that out there.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone else who would like to
make comment? I don't recognize you without the green helmet.
Evarts: I know. Josh Evarts, 303 East State Avenue, Old Town, Meridian. I really
would like to offer comment on the Lime, so if you guys ever decide to put together a
committee to talk about the scooters, I thought wearing the helmet might give me an
invite to talk, but that's neither here nor there. I do appreciate all the comments. Caleb
and I were very very deliberate when we went through all the math to make the offer of
the 565. We knew that was a very very big issue. We took that very very serious. We
did a lot of work. One of the reasons we provided one hundred percent of our financials
to show what our actual bottom line, small return was on this investment, was to convey
that -- that we had done our due diligence to make sure that you guys understood the
reason that we weren't asking for contribution on the 20 million dollars is because we
knew that this was a big deal and we wanted to show our stake and our investment in
making this happen. With all due respect to other people that are talking about wanting
to do development, there have been multiple opportunities -- three RFPs have been run
since 2012 and nobody is bringing concepts and so -- so, with all peace and love, like I
think we are this close and I think that it was actually very -- we worked very closely,
actually, with the appraiser. They had lots of questions for Caleb and I in terms of how
we got the numbers and lots of discussion went back and forth. The number came in
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within a range that we thought was kind of reasonable and as we talked about it with
MDC, we just made it very clear to them that we feel very comfortable with the 565
number. We feel like that based on the additional contributions that we are making, that
we are not asking you guys to participate in for the amount of return that we are
expecting on this. We thought it was a win win for everybody. Those are just kind of
my comments and I'm open for any questions. And Caleb would love to be here, he's in
Oregon with family, so --
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions? Thank you.
Evarts: I appreciate it. Thanks.
De Weerd: Any other comments?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-F.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
G. Ordinance 18-1792: An Ordinance Authorizing The
Conveyance Of Certain City Owned Real Property To The
Meridian Development Corporation Located At 33 E . Idaho
Avenue (Commonly Referred To As “Old City Hall”) And
Legally Described As Lots 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29, 30, 31
And 32 Of Block 2, Meridian Townsite In The City Of Meridian,
Ada County, Idaho; Authorizing The Mayor And City Clerk To
Execute And Attest On Behalf Of The City Of Meridian The
Deed And Other Documents Necessary To Complete The
Transaction; Providing For A Waiver Of The Reading Rules;
And Providing An Effective Date .
De Weerd: Ordinance 18-1792 is Item 9-G. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this by
title.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 18-1792, an
ordinance authorizing the convenience of certain city owned real property to the
Meridian Development Corporation, located at 33 East Idaho Avenue, commonly
referred to as Old City Hall and legally described as Lots 21 22 23, 24, 25, 26, 28, 29,
Meridian City Council
October 2, 2018
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30,31 and 32 of Block 2, Meridian townsite in the City of Meridian, Ada county, Idaho.
Authorizing the Mayor and City Clerk to execute and attest on behalf of the City of
Meridian the deed and other documents necessary to complete the transaction,
providing for a waiver of the reading rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard this ordinance read by title. Council, do you
have any questions or do I have a motion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we approve Ordinance 18-1792 for the amount of 565,000 even with
suspension of rules.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I was just going to ask if you would put on the record -- again, we discussed a
reversion clause that's in the agreement that we will -- we will work out with MDC, I just
wanted to be clear is that a desire of the Council that we have that conversation that
there be a reversion to the city repurchasing the property if it were not to develop?
Milam: Yes.
Palmer: Yes.
Nary: Okay. All right. We will -- we will work that out with the next agreement. This
only needs this part to be done.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
H. Police Department: Budget Amendment for K -9 Training Not to
Exceed $10,000 (Net Zero)
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October 2, 2018
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De Weerd: Item 9-H is under our Police Department.
Harper: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Harper: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm here to hopefully quickly go over a
project that the canine unit has been working on since 2017, a fundraiser, that The
Village started back in 2017. The Village purchased over a thousand stuffed logo dogs
that look like our canines and ultimately -- which everybody's familiar with, right, the
program -- or the fundraiser. Through that the whole point of this was to raise money
for a bulletproof vest for canines, additional tactical training, so on and so forth. From
2017 to 2018 all the dogs were sold to the tune of raising over 14,000 dollars by the
sale of those dogs, which went towards the canine fund. In May of 2018 the fundraiser
was selected for the International Council of Shopping Centers and received an extra
10,000 dollars, which is pretty cool. So, to date we have raised 24,000 dollars and
tonight we are seeking authority to spend 10,000 of that in FY-19. And I want to go to
Portugal.
De Weerd: Thank you. And congratulations on that. The Village has been an excellent
partner. Council, any questions? Okay. Mrs. Little Robert.
Little Roberts: Hearing none, Madam Mayor, I move we approve the budget
amendment for the canine training not to exceed 10,000 dollars.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve 9-H. Any discussion? Hearing
none, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: Department Reports
A. Community Development: Bike Share Programs
Became Item 8B
De Weerd: We already heard 10-A.
Item 11: Future Meeting Topics
Meridian City Council
October 2, 2018
Page 104 of 103
De Weerd: Item 11, any item under this number? Okay. I just have a couple of
reminders that United Way campaign lunch is tomorrow from 11:30 to 1:30. Faith
leaders luncheon is Thursday at 11:30. And the chamber versus the city softball game
is October 9th at 5:30 at Settlers Park. Be there or be square.
Nary: Madam Mayor, before you adjourn I was going to mention one more thing to you
and the Council. Mr. Watts spoke to me before the meeting. He left a draft of policy
updates for the purchasing division that he wants to discuss next week. So, I just
wanted to -- had a lot of papers tonight, I wanted to make sure you saw that, because
he was going to have that on next week's agenda for discussion.
De Weerd: Okay. Very good. Okay. With that I would entertain --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Oh, sorry.
Borton: Sorry. Sorry. Real quick.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I just passed out kind of feedback and the reassignment of liaisons, which we
have moved to now October, the idea that this would be effective really after the
workshop, because people have maybe meetings this week or next week. There is not
a lot of change on the external committees. A couple, but kind of rotating around all the
other liaisons amongst us. So, at any rate, go see your departments and probably at
our -- at our workshop when we provide our updates on our external, it's probably the
ones you already are on. An update for external -- anything new would probably really
happened in November, so you're not going to know much. And thank you, everybody,
for providing input, Madam Mayor in reviewing the liaisons to your department. I will be
sad for those that --
De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Little Roberts: So moved.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:35 P. M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
Meridian City Council
October 2, 2018
Page 105 of 103
MAYOR MY DE WEERD
ATTES vz,/6�
C. JAY OLES, UTY CLERK
DATE APPROVED