HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-09-25Meridian City Council September 25, 2018.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:04 p.m., Tuesday,
September 25, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer, Genesis
Milam, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Also present: C.Jay Coles, Bill Nary, Sonya Allen, Josh Beach, Mark Brown, Kevin
Fedrizzi, Steve Siddoway, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: We would like to welcome you here to our City Council meeting. We always
like to see our public coming out. Sorry we are starting a few minutes late. For the
record it is Tuesday, September 24. It's four minutes after 6:00. We will start with roll
call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Tim Pusey of Valley Shepherd Church of
the
Nazarene
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor
Tim Pusey with the Valley Shepherd Church of the Nazarene. If you will all join us in the
community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Thank
you for joining us.
Pusey: Let's pray. Father, thank you for the beauty of this day and thank you for the
community in which we live. Thank you, Lord, for your wonderful blessings upon
Meridian and I thank you for those who serve our community. Our Mayor, our Council,
Police and Fire Department and all who serve in administration behind the scenes.
Lord, tonight we pray your wisdom and your guidance for our City Council and all of the
conversations and decisions that are made and, Lord, we pray for your continued
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blessing upon our community and for every person who calls it home. Amen.
.Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: We are rearranging a couple of things. Just switching the order. On the Action
Items, Items D and E are going to flop at the request of staff. And, then, we have got a
few relatively straightforward and short land use matters that might be handled quickly.
So, we are going to move Item F to the end of the agenda and take G, H, I and J, which
are relatively straightforward, move those through, so -- if there nothing else that comes
off the agenda, so with that amendment I would move that it be adopted.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. Any
discussion? All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, do we have any signs -- sign-ups under five?
Coles: Madam Mayor, there were a few individuals that signed up under Item 5.
However, all of them indicate Item 8-F, which we just spoke about, that they would like
to speak at that time on the agenda.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. And just for context, in moving Item F, our land use
items are very minor and will take very little time. Seeing the number of people in the
room we want to be respectful to you, but these will -- will -- this way they don't have to
wait until midnight to hear their items. So, we -- we hope it doesn't go to midnight. But
there is the possibility.
Item 6: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Approve Minutes of August 21, 2018 City Council Special
Meeting
B. Final Plat for TM Creek Subdivision No. 4 by SCS Brighton,
LLC
located off the Southeast Corner of W. Franklin Rd. and S. Ten
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Mile Rd.
C. Service Agreement Memorandum of Understanding - Bike
Sharing Services with Lime
D. Williams Pipeline Specific Encroachment Agreement for
Discovery Park
E. Real Property Purchase and Sale Agreement between Western
Ada Recreation District and City of Meridian for Fuller Park
Transfer
F. License and Maintenance Agreement between Western Ada
Recreation District and City of Meridian for Fuller Park
G. Interagency Professional Services Agreement between Idaho
Division of Building Safety and City of Meridian for Mechanical
Inspection Services
H. Interagency Professional Services Agreement between Idaho
Division of Building Safety and City of Meridian for Solar Plan
Review and Electrical Inspection Services
I. Professional Services Agreement Between DM H Enterprises
and City of Meridian for Plumbing Plan Review and Inspection
Services
J. Professional Services Agreement between Jackson Code
Consultants, Inc. and City of Meridian for Fire Plan Review and
Inspection Services
K. First Amendment to Subrecipient Agreement with
Neighborworks Boise for Program Year 2017 CDBG Funds
L. First Amendment to Subrecipient Agreement with Ada County
Housing Authority for Program Year 2017 CDBG Funds
M. Resolution No. 18- 2103: A Resolution Appointing Keith Bird to
the Meridian Board of Adjustment
N. Resolution No. 18-2108: A Resolution Re -Appointing Matthew
Adams to Seat 4, John Nesmith to Seat 5, Spencer Martin to
Seat 6 and Seldon S. " Butch" Weedon to Seat 7 of the Meridian
Impact Fee Advisory Committee
0. Resolution No. 18-2109: A Resolution for the Vacation of the
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Northwesterly 5 feet of the Existing 10 Foot Wide Public Utility
Easement on the Southeasterly Boundary of Lot 3, Block 4,
Howry Lane Subdivision No. 1.
P. Resolution No. 18-2104: A Resolution Of The Mayor And The
City Council Of The City Of Meridian Authorizing The City
Clerk To Destroy Certain Semi Permanent And Temporary Records
Of The Meridian Police Department; And Providing An Effective
Date.
Q. Approval of a Contract Amendment No. 1 to SNF Polydyne in
the amount of $250, 000. 00 for the " POLYMER CHEMICAL"
project at Wastewater Treatment Plant.
R. Approval of HACH Agreement for FY19 Probe Maintenance and
Service for the Not -To -Exceed amount of $19, 276.00.
S. AP Invoices for Payment - $1, 949,205.37
De Weerd: So -- okay. Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: There were no changes to the Consent Agenda as published, so I move that
we approve it and for the Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr. Clerk,
will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From T he Consent Agenda [Action Item]
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Action Items
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A. Resolution No. 18-2105: A Resolution Appointing Charlene
Pederson as Youth Commissioner to the Meridian
Transportation Commission
De Weerd: So, we will move right into Action Items. Council, under Item A is resolution
18-2105. This is appointing one of our youth members onto the Meridian Transportation
Commission and Charlene Pederson is -- is one of our MYAC members and has a huge
interest in the transportation arena and think that she can bring a -- a good
representation of the youth voice. So, I would -- I would entertain any questions. If not,
entertain a motion.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve Resolution No. 18-2105, a resolution appointing Charlene
Pederson to the youth commissioner for the Meridian Transportation Commission.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Is Charlene here? I didn't see her.
Cavener: Best turnout for a youth on commission appointment I have ever seen.
B. Resolution No. 18-2106: A Resolution Appointing Jackson
Jones as Youth Commissioner to the Meridian Parks and
Recreation Commission
De Weerd: Okay. Item B is Resolution 18-2106. This is appointing Jackson Jones as
the youth commissioner on our Parks and Recreation Commission. Council, Jackson is
also on our Executive Council for the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council. He is one of our
younger members, but is very exciting -- excited to join the Parks Commission and
represent the youth voice. I would entertain any motion or any -- motion or questions.
Bernt: Any questions? I have a motion.
De Weerd: Oh, awesome.
Bernt: Thank you.
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De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you. Resolution -- I move that we approve Resolution No. 18-2106, a
resolution appointing Jackson Jones as youth commissioner to the Parks and
Recreation Commission.
Cavener: Second.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item B. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Resolution No. 18- 2107: A Resolution Appointing Kourtney
McBride as Youth Commissioner to the Meridian
Historical Preservation Commission
De Weerd: Item 8-C is Resolution 18-2107. This resolution appoints Kourtney McBride
as the youth commissioner on the Historical Preservation Commission. You might
remember Kourtney. She presented on the participatory budgeting project for the Fix-It
stations. She was one of the main sponsors of that and Kourtney is very interested in
and being a participant of the HPC. So, if there are no questions about this
appointment, I would entertain a motion.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Resolution No. 18-2107, a
resolution appointing Kourtney McBride as youth commissioner to Meridian Historical
Preservation Commission.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-C. Mr. Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
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De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Public Hearing for Proposed City of Meridian Consolidated
Fee Schedule including Proposed Solid Waste Fees
1. Resolution No. 18- 2110: A Resolution Adopting The Fiscal
Year 2019 Citywide Fee Schedule, Including The Fiscal Year
2019 Rate Schedule Of Solid Waste Collection Services;
Superseding All Previously Adopted Fees, With The
Exception Of Recreational Programming Fees; Authorizing
City Departments To Collect Such Fees; And Providing An
Effective Date.
De Weerd: Item 8-E was moved in front of D and so I will ask for staff comments on the
recycling processing fee contract amendment. Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Council. If you recall our past
discussion regarding some of the changes in the recycling fees for this go around
required a contract amendment to our master agreement with Republic Services. We
crafted the agreement. It's signed. It's in your packet. So, it is ready for approval. And
the reason it was in front of the fees is because, again, the fees are related to this --
some of the fees are related to the amendment specifically, so --
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: It's just a clarifying question. We are going to approve the contract before the
public hearing then or am I misreading things? It's the amendment.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve the recycling processing fee contract amendment.
Little Roberts: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-E. Any discussion? Mr.
Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Recycling Processing Fee Contract Amendment
De Weerd: Item 8-D is a public hearing for the proposed City of Meridian consolidated
fee schedule, including proposed solid waste fees. I will open this public hearing and
ask for staff comments.
Purser: Madam Mayor and Council.
De Weerd: Hi, Brad.
Purser: How are you? I'm here to talk about the -- so, there is about 22. Sorry. Most
of those are meter changes and -- and whatnot. I would stand for any questions if there
is any questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, you do have this in your packet. Are there any questions at
this time?
Bernt: No. No, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for your detailed report.
Bernt: Thanks, Brad. See you, Brad.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to testify on this item?
I swore that this would be the reason we filled the room. Okay. Mr. Clerk, no signups?
Coles: There was one, Tyler Danley, but I'm assuming if Mr. Danley is here he meant to
sign up for a different item.
De Weerd: Okay. Well , if there are -- is no further information from -- I see the chair of
SWAC and a couple of the members. Is there anything you would like to add? Okay.
Council, any questions? If not I would entertain a motion close the public hearing.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
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Borton: Move that we close the public hearing on Item D.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those
in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: The resolution associated with this is 18-2110 . Council, any discussion on
this? If not I would entertain a motion.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move that we adopt Resolution No. 18-2110, adopting the fiscal year 2019
citywide fee schedule.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve 8-D-1. If there is no discussion,
Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
G. Final Plat for Trilogy Subdivision No. 2 by Conger
Management Group, Located near the Southwest corner of W.
Chinden Blvd. and N. Black Cat Rd.
De Weerd: We did move Item F to the end of our public Action Items, so I will move to J
or G. Sorry. I was trying to move forward. This is regarding the final plat for Trilogy and
I will ask for staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The final plat application
before you -- we did get a response from the applicant that they are in agreement with
the staff report after the cutoff date to be on the Consent Agenda. Would you still like
me to go through the staff report?
De Weerd: Council, do you -- would you like any further information? Thank you,
Sonya. Council, do I have a motion?
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Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we approve Item 8-G, Trilogy Subdivision final plat, H-2018-0102.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-G. Any discussion? Mr.
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
H. Public Hearing for Oaks South Subdivision No. 5 Vacation
H2018-0099 by Toll ID I, LLC, Located at 5860 and 5840 W.
Quintake Dr.
1. Request: Vacation of the westerly 1' of the 6' wide utility and
pressure irrigation easement on the east boundary of Lot 2,
Block 14 and the easterly 1' of the 6' wide utility and
pressure
irrigation easement on the west boundary of Lot 2, Block 12
in the Oaks South Subdivision No. 5
De Weerd: Item 8-H is a public hearing for H-2018-0099. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the next application before you is a
request for a vacation of easement. This site is located at 5860 and 5840 West Quintail
Drive off the southeast corner of West McMillan and North McDermott Roads in an R-8
zoning district. The applicant is requesting approval to vacate the westerly one foot of
the six foot wide utility and pressure irrigation easement on the east boundary of Lot 2,
Block 14, and the easterly one foot of the six foot wide utility and pressure irrigation
easement on the west boundary of Lot 2, Block 12, in the Oak South Subdivision No. 5
as shown. There are no existing utilities within the portion proposed to be vacated. The
easement holders have all submitted written consent agreeing to vacate a portion of the
existing easement as proposed. The applicant states the reason for the requested
vacation is that a six foot wide easement is not necessary in this location and the builder
would like to provide more floor plan options. Written testimony has been received from
Kristi Watkins, JUB Engineers. She is the applicant's representative, and they are in
agreement with the staff report. Staff is recommending approval.
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De Weerd: Thank you, Sonya. Any questions from Council? Is the applicant here this
evening? Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Watkins: Okay. My name is Kristi Watkins. I'm with JUB Engineers at 250 South
Beechwood Avenue in Boise. The request is just as Sonya stated and normally we
design this -- these lots with five foot easements on each side and this one, because of
the potential PI line was designed at six. That line did not go through there, so they
would like to reduce it. Do you have any questions for me?
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? No. Thank you.
Watkins: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Cl erk, were there any sign-ups?
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. A Jay Knott signed up against, but not wishing to
testify on this project.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone who wishes to testify on this item? Okay. Seeing
none --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Move that we close the public hearing on H-2018-0099.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close public hearing on Item 8-H. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Move that we approve H-2018-0099.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve. Any discussion?
Bernt: No, ma'am.
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De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item I: Public Hearing for Belveal Subdivision ( H- 2018- 0076) by TTS
Development, LLC, Located at 385 S. Locust Grove Rd.
1. Request: Rezone property from L-0 (1.494 acres) to C-C; and
2. Request: Short Plat consisting of two (2) commercial building lots
on 1.33 acres if land in a proposed C-C zoning district; and
3. Request: Modification to Development Agreement to change from
those uses allowed within the L-0 zoning district to those allowed
within the C-C zoning district
De Weerd: Item 8-I is a public hearing on H-2018-0076. I will open this public hearing
my staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next applications
before you are a request for a development agreement modification, a rezone, and a
short plat. This site consists of 1.33 acres of land, zoned L-O, located at 385 South
Locust Grove Road. This property was annexed back in 1999 with the requirement of a
development agreement, which was later amended. There is a daycare -- a daycare
center, it's called the Treehouse Learning Center, that currently operates in the existing
building on the west end of this site. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map
designation is mixed use community. A modification to the existing development
agreement is proposed to update the uses allowed on the property from those allowed
in the L-O zoning district to those allowed on the C-C district, consistent with the
proposed rezone request. Staff is recommending new provisions are included in the
agreement that require future development to substantially comply with the conceptual
development plan and building elevations associated with this application and the
design standards listed in the architectural standards manual. A rezone of 1.49 acres of
land from the L-O to the C-C zoning district is proposed consistent with the mixed use
community future land use map designation. A conceptual development plan was
submitted as shown, showing how the site is proposed to develop with two commercial
buildings, associated parking areas and driveway access, via South Locust Grove Road
and conceptual elevations were also submitted for the future building on the site. A
short plat is proposed consisting of two building lots on 1.33 acres of land in the
proposed C-C zoning district as shown. There is one existing structure, as I mentioned,
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on the western portion of this site that will be retained until redevelopment occurs at
some point in the future. The concept plan demonstrates how the site may redevelop
upon removal of that structure. One driveway access exists to this site via South Locust
Grove Road, which is proposed to remain and provide access to both of the proposed
lots. Because local street access is not available, the UDC requires property owner to
grant cross-access ingress-egress easements to adjoining properties. Therefore, staff
recommends a cross-access easement and driveway stubs are provided to the
properties to the north and to the south. You can see that this little area here is the site
we are looking at. There is a 25 foot wide landscape street buffer and sidewalk that
exists along Locust Grove that is in accord with UDC standards. The Commission
recommended approval of the subject rezone and short plat. Kent Brown, the
applicant's representative, testified in favor of the application, as did Brent Bellville, the
applicant. No one testified in opposition. Robert Smith, the property owner to the north,
commented on the application. Written testimony was received from Kent Brown, the
applicant's representative, and, really, the only issue that was discussed was that the
applicant propose to provide a six foot tall dog-eared cedar or vinyl fence along the
north property boundary. There are no outstanding issues for Council tonight and no
written testimony has been received since the Commission hearing. Staff will stand for
any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this time? Okay. I see the applicant
coming forward. Thank you for joining us this evening. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Brown: Kent Brown. 3161 Springwood, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kent.
Brown: We are in agreement. I think Sonya has covered everything that needs to be
discussed. The man that spoke at the P&Z hearing talked a little bit about weeds and
so forth that exist on that vacant property and this will help alleviate those. There is a --
they will be a lawn along the boundary between the two properties and my client plans
on having a flex space building where he can have an office. That's all I have.
De Weerd: Okay, Kent. Thank you. Council, any -- do you have a question, Mr. Bernt?
Bernt: One question. What -- what type of business is going in there, Kent? Do you
have --
Brown: He's a construction business. It's not going to be a contractor's yard, just a
place where the public can come and --
Bernt: Okay.
Brown: -- and discuss building that goes on.
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Bernt: Pretty low key it sounds like.
Brown: Yeah. Very low key. I mean it's -- these flex spaces -- what they like about flex
spaces -- I know that I have talked about them before, but you have a garage access on
the backside that you don't see from the street, but that you have an office presence. In
some locations they call them incubator business locations where someone has like a
plumbing business, they are just getting started, they have a place where they have an
office --
Bernt: A little warehouse.
Brown: Yeah. And, then, they have a room in the back for supplies.
Bernt: Right.
Brown: For -- for him he -- he keeps his boat in there.
Bernt: Perfect. Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Cl erk.
Coles: There were no sign-ups for this item.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to provide
testimony on this item? Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we close the public hearing for H dash -- is that the right one? Yeah.
H-2018-0076.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-I. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we approve H-2018-0076.
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Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? The motion is to approve.
Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
J. Public Hearing for Gramercy Medical Office Building H-2018-
0098 by neUdesign Architecture, LLC, Located at 2667 E. Gala
Ct.
1. Request: Vacation of an existing 20' x 20' water easement
located near the northeast corner and a 14' x 13' portion of
an existing water easement located in the southwest corner of
Lot 11, Block 2, Gramercy Subdivision No. 1
De Weerd: Item 8-J is a public hearing for H-2018-0098. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application is for a
vacation of easement. This site is located at 2667 East Gala Court and it's zoned C-G.
The applicant is requesting approval to vacate an existing 20 foot by 20 foot water
easement located near the northeast corner and a 14 foot by 13 foot portion of an
existing water easement located in the southwest corner of Lot 11 , Block 2, Gramercy
Subdivision No. 1 as shown. The easement at the northeast corner of the site contains
an existing water line that is proposed to be abandoned and the easement vacated. A
portion of the easement at the southwest corner of the site is proposed to be vacated to
reduce the size of the easement. This line will service the property, but will be
shortened to allow for more space on the site for the building and parking lot. The
remaining portion of the easement is sufficient size to accommodate the water service
for the building. Written testimony has been received from Amanda Bidwell, New
Design Architecture, the applicant's representative, and she is in agreement with the
staff report. Staff is recommending approval. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff? Okay. Is the applicant here?
Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Fife: Yeah. It's Mike Fife. 7945 South Saddlebag, Nampa. The reason that we are
applying for the -- the adjustment of the easement at the southwest corner is so we can
move the building closer to the street, which gives us six more parking spaces. It also
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makes the building lay out more -- the same as the other buildings that are already
there and the easterly easement we are vacating that at the behest of the city, because
we are not using that easement or that utility on the eastern property.
De Weerd: Okay. Do you have any issues with staff conditions? Okay. Council, any
questions for the applicant? Thank you for joining us.
Fife: You bet.
Coles: Madam Mayor, we do have a Eunice Brian signed up as against this project,
with no indication of testimony.
De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: And that was all.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to provide testimony
on this item? We thought that's what filled the room. Sorry. That was a dead joke.
Bernt: You have already used that joke.
De Weerd: I know. I keep wondering; right? Council, seeing there is no testimony, if
there is no further questions for staff, I would entertain a motion to close the public
hearing.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we close the public hearing on Item 8-J.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Move that we approve H-2018-0098.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-J. If there is no discussion,
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Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
F. Public Hearing for Proposed Non Discrimination Ordinance
1. Ordinance No. 18- 1791: An Ordinance Adding Meridian City
Code Section 6- 3- 13, Regarding Discrimination Prohibited;
Adopting A Savings Clause; And Providing An Effective Date
De Weerd: Item 8-F is a public hearing for the proposed nondiscrimination ordinance.
Council, before I turn this over to Mr. Borton to give some history behind this item on our
agenda, I will just say that we appreciate all of you for joining us. We hope that you will
stay respectful in your comments. This is an emotional topic for many and so we ask
that you respect one another. No hissing or booing or clapping or jumping up and
down. I had to throw that one in. I am the presider over this -- this public hearing and
you will have three minutes for your testimony. We will -- I will cut you off at three
minutes, because there are a lot of people and we want to make sure that everyone's
voices is heard. I will not break a tie that -- I think that this is an important policy making
decision that Council will need to have a majority for this to pass. So, we, again, just
want to thank you all for joining us and respect each other's opinions and I will now
open this and ask our City Council President to give some history behind this item.
Borton: Thank you, Madam Mayor. And thank everybody for being here. Lots of
familiar faces, lots of new faces. We thought it would be helpful to open up this and
give a little context of what brought us through the process through the summer and
through today and to today's hearing and kind of some of the house rules of how we do
what we do. Some of you may know it, some of you don't. There have been over time,
either through legislative process or the courts, city, state, and federal level, there has
been efforts to enact legislation and protections to prevent discriminatory conduct and
barriers that might impede certain members of our society to the full enjoyment and
access of goods, employment, and housing that has evolved over the years. We are all
familiar with -- with legislation that is addressed, discriminatory practices with regards to
age, sex, disability, national origin, religion and as we all know that has progressed and
recognized over time additional segments of our society that have been subjected to
discriminatory practices. We have seen over the years throughout our state in various
cities ordinances have been addressed trying to tackle this -- this difficult issue and
Meridian is no different. So, we are, through this process, embarking on a journey with
a little bit different background. We do not come at this task and this discussion as a
quick response to a particular urgent tragic event, thank goodness, but we take and
have taken these measures and -- and this diligent effort throughout the summer to
bring us to today at a time of more calm reflection and objective inquiry, which makes
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this process fair, impartial, and proper. It's the right environment to have this
discussion. It is the intent of an ordinance such as this to be reviewed through this
process and administered, if enacted, in a neutral and objective manner. That's -- that's
the gist of how this entire process has begun, how it's been run and how today's hearing
will be run. So, again, a little more brief background. In December of 2015, the city
enacted a nondiscrimination provision for the LGBT community for our city employees,
to prevent that type of discrimination. A step recognizing that there are provisions and
needs that we have an opportunity to address at least internally and we took that step
and that ordinance is -- excuse me -- that internal policy has been handled with -- with
great success. We have heard -- a variety of us have heard from our community here in
Meridian, business owners, employees, residents, family members of concerns and
issues that we might take the opportunity to address this city wide and with open ears
and an open mind, that process continued into the summer of this year when in June we
asked ourselves is this an ordinance that we wanted to bring to our community, to each
other, to share and discuss with an open mind. Again, in a -- in an objective fashion,
which is the right environment to have these discussions and overwhelmingly there was
support to bring it forward and to bring forward this discussion and this topic. So,
throughout the summer we did a lot of due diligence to try and understand our
community, understand the concerns that were not able to be addressed without an
ordinance such as this. As we all know the state hasn't taken any action on this topic at
this point. We reviewed ordinances that have worked and not worked in other
communities. Salt Lake City's ordinance, to our neighboring city Boise's ordinance, and
learned a lot through that process in our drafting and we looked for language that would
try and address these questions and concerns, obtain data on whether claims have
been filed and what types of claims from our neighboring city Boise. Reviewed current
case law and came up with language that tried to address our Meridian community in a
fair, neutral, and impartial way for this very important matter. We have done this
process and reviewed it with our Legal Department with our -- with our prosecutors, the
Boise city prosecutors, who handle matters for our city, with our Police Department to
ensure we are not -- if we are incurring any undue burden on our departments we are
aware of it. Again, a lot of -- kind of background due diligence to get us to today to have
an ordinance for our consideration and for our public to provide comment on. Real
quick, Madam Mayor, there is -- there is a couple of fundamental principles that are set
forth in this ordinance, which are -- which are unique to Meridian and I think speak to
that -- that neutral objective environment that an ordinance like this needs to be
considered and, if passed, needs to be applied. There are set forth in the top of the
ordinance that you have hopefully all had a chance to review, but we recognize through
this process -- we recognize that the people within the City of Meridian are provided with
certain protections within the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. The
free exercise of their sincere religious beliefs as they seek to teach or exercise
principles of religious faith that are fulfilling and central to their lives and we also
recognize in this process that those same constitutional provisions which preserve
these liberties, they provide a boundary within which such exercise of these liberties
much fall, so that no person within our city, regardless of sexual orientation and gender
-- and/or gender identity may be denied equal right to enjoy the full benefits of
citizenship, including equal opportunities for employment, housing, and public
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accommodation. That is unique to ours and it does set the appropriate tone for an
ordinance like this that we have structured it in an objective, fair, and neutral manner,
which we are required to do. It's important to read and point that out for our
consideration. We have cited that this ordinance in this draft shall be applied in a fair,
impartial, and neutral manner. That's important that it's placed within the ordinance.
That's one of the commitments that a passage of this protection requires it for its
application to be fair and, lastly, in brief summary, the ordinance steers towards
resolution, education, conciliation and trying to -- to bring parties to discuss. We have
taken that from a lot of other communities, who -- who have had ordinances, again, from
Salt Lake and Boise try to foster discussion and education, communication. Nothing's
better than that for our society to move forward. Which brings us to today. So, you
have all been provided -- we have all been provided and reviewed and commented on
this type of draft language. I provided that brief summary because it is somewhat
unique, yet appropriate to really capture how these types of ordinances properly protect
and rightfully protect this community. The final -- Madam Mayor, real final comment on -
- on the house rules. Many of you have been to Meridian or testified here, maybe many
of you have not, but as the Mayor brings up, when we talk about being open and
objective and fair, we mean it. It's how we all act here and we do so in a respectful
manner. I have heard the Mayor describe it in other contexts where we may disagree
without being disagreeable. Not every community maybe pushes that as hard, but we
really like to feel like we do. So, if -- to the Mayor's comments about, you know, with
stopping if there is applause or boo -- it's really just not how we do business out here.
Not trying to be rude, but it's -- it's important that we act in that professional way
regardless of your position, because we want to hear everybody and hear your
thoughts. Finally, if you have signed up, when we have large crowds, if you sign up to
testify that's not a contract, you don't have to necessarily. We have found over time, if
someone else might have expressed your position for or against or some comment or
statistic, you're free to say that my thoughts and comments have been shared by others.
You can let us know your -- whether you're in favor or against, but by no means do you
have to provide testimony. You're free to waive that -- that right if you signed up, if you
have heard someone else that has addressed it, so -- some people might feel like they
have got to provide testimony. So, Madam Mayor, that's the backdrop which brought us
this draft today for -- for our consideration. We believe it's important. We have all heard
-- or many of us have heard from our community that it's an issue that needs to be
addressed and no better time than now to tackle the opportunity. So, thank you,
Madam Mayor, for having it on the agenda.
De Weerd: We have people standing in the back, so there are a couple open seats in
the front and I guess I would ask this section on the side, if you will all kind of shift that
direction to open up some seats, so that people can sit down. Maybe on this side if
there are any seats to shift over to -- towards the wall we would appreciate that. So, we
can allow as many people as possible to have a seat and if there is anything in the
middle, if you would just kind of figure it out yourselves. Okay. I want everyone to be
comfortable before we get started. So, hopefully, everyone that wants a seat has found
a seat. So, those sitting in the back or outside in the hall, if you have a seat -- there are
a couple -- if you want a seat there are a couple open, so -- okay. With that said --
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Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I think it's important before we jump into the public hearing -- I know myself,
many of my colleagues have heard from citizens both in favor and against this and
that's allowed, because this isn't a land use hearing, but I'm a big proponent of
transparency, so I just think it's important that I'm going on the record to say I have
bumped into people in supermarkets that have inquired about this. I have taken phone
calls about this issue, e-mails, and I just think that's important to -- to be on the record
that -- that I have heard from people both in favor and opposed to it.
De Weerd: And there is quite a healthy public record and that all the Council Members
have had the opportunity to review and -- and that's all taken into consideration as well.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Anything else? Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Speaking of which, I guess this is something that -- and I don't know at what
point -- we have been talking about it for years, so I'm sure there have been many
conversations and meetings and such that I have been a part of regarding this topic.
De Weerd: Okay.
Milam: So, thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other comments from Council? Okay. If not we will go
ahead and start the public hearing. Our city clerk will read the names as they signed up
and indicate in favor or opposed and if you signed up to testify he will mention that at
that time, then, we asked you to come forward and, again, if you will, please, limit your -
- your remarks to three minutes, because if you don't, I'm sorry, we will have to be
disagreeable and cut you off. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. The first on the list is Brittany Jones. She signed up
against and would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Jones: Yes. My name is Brittany Jones. 11 16 South Vista Avenue, Suite 227, Boise,
Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Jones: Thank you. Madam Mayor and Members of the Meridian City Council, my name
is Brittany Jones and I am an attorney and policy director for Family Policy Alliance of
Idaho. Family Policy Alliance of Idaho advocates for policies that strengthen families
and religious freedom. We ally with 40 other state-based Family Policy organizations
across the country. I am here to voice our opposition to the proposed ordinance relating
to sexual orientation and gender identity presently before the Council on behalf of our
Meridian members. We ask that you reject this ordinance, because it brings disunity
where there is unity. I know the intentions of this ordinance are caring. However,
ordinances of this type are used to divide friends and at times even families. It has
been used as a sword against people of faith all across the nation. One prominent
example is a cake baker in Colorado, Jack Phillips. He was forced to pay large fines
and lost much of his business because he declined to create a customized wedding
cake for a same sex ceremony in violation of his deeply held religious beliefs, even
though he was willing to make many other items for his LGBTQ friends. Another
prominent example is Florist Barronelle in Washington. She had a longtime friend and
customer who one day asked her to create a floral design for a same sex wedding, but
referred him to another florist and shared that she couldn't design the flowers for his
wedding against her faith. The state's law is vary -- this -- the state's law is very similar
to the proposed ordinance today -- was used to punish Barronelle for her beliefs and put
friends at odds with one another, stepping in the way of real relationships, put a local
business owner at risk of losing everything and even gave the government the power to
turn a law abiding grandmother and florist into someone deserving punishment. This
isn't the way Meridian operates. This isn't a reputation Meridian wants and this isn't how
Meridian treats its small business owners. Many have shared the belief that this
ordinance protects people of faith. However, this ordinance gives shallow nods and
protections that already exists in federal and state law, while sending a strong message
to anyone who doesn't work for a religious organization that they aren't free to live out
their faith beyond the walls of their church or home. Meridian is and always has been a
lovely -- a place that is known for its lovely, caring, inviting community. It's a great place
to have a family and to run a business. If there are concerns about discrimination in
Meridian this should be addressed through civil channels already in place and between
neighbors in Meridian. This is not the time or place for the heavy hand of government,
even the local government, to criminalize normal people of faith for living out their faith.
It's not the government's job to pick winners and losers. So, we ask that you vote
against this ordinance and keep faith --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jones: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions? Okay. Thank you, Brittany.
Jones: Thank you so much.
Coles: Next is Laurie Burchfield, signed up against and would like to testify.
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De Weerd: Good evening. If you will -- and I just want to note on the screen in front of
you is the time, so you will be able to see how much time is remaining. Just wanted to
point that out. Pardon?
Birchfield: You need to add two more minutes -- or two more seconds back onto my
clock.
De Weerd: Okay. We will do. If you can pull the mic a little closer, so we can hear you.
And if you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Burchfield: Laurie Burchfield. I have been a resident here in Meridian for 25 years.
Married 38 years, a mother of four, grandmother of eight. I have come tonight as a
deeply concerned citizen and resident of Meridian where together with my husband
Darrell we have raised our kids and have been fully engaged in the community from
umpiring little league baseball for five years to helping develop new residential
neighborhoods and parks through a long career in real estate. I'm fully opposed to this
ordinance, which would add the word sexual orientation and/or gender identity as a
protected class. I am compelled to speak tonight because I love my country and
community of Meridian. We have grown at the pace and with the passion here that few
city cities have seen. I can tell you from the people and families moving here they love
the wholesome history of Meridian and Idaho. We are not a community that is
apologetic for our conservative ideals, morally, fiscally or otherwise. We are a breath of
fresh air to residents and newcomers alike. Our country was founded on principles of
Judeo-Christian belief and values. We believe in an almighty God whose word is truth,
good versus evil, truth versus a lie, and loving our neighbors as ourselves. This is
evidenced constantly throughout Meridian by the good works and inclusive attitudes of
its citizens and collectively by the faith community and their constant involvement from
Food Bank donations to volunteerism. The underpinnings here are those given to us by
the Constitution and First Amendment freedoms. It is the religious liberty that compels
us to care and teaches us to discriminate properly. Your decision as a Council to adopt
this ordinance flies in the face of the majority of the people in this country and
community. You silence and rob us of our religious liberty and substitute that with the
whims of activist agendas perpetrated on us and our children. Girls forced to share
restrooms, locker rooms, shower rooms with the opposite sex. There was a reason that
the founders chose immutable, Latin for unable to be changed, as a standard of law.
Facebook now has 51 new gender options. How many more will be added? Meridian
citizens do not wish to harm anyone. We love and our kind to our neighbors and fellow
man. However, when you add these unnecessary words to our Meridian code you
silence and shackle the protected rights of the religious community to choose what is
best for them and their families. You hand over a club to brandish and punish anyone
who doesn't believe as the gay community does. We have seen this over the last few
years as business owners have been attacked and silenced or driven out of businesses
they have owned and loved, despite their deeply held religious beliefs. Please preserve
the foundational tenants of our country and community by voting no on this ordinance.
It is a slippery slope and a decision not to be made lightly. Groups like the ACLU and
others who would use our schools and community as an outrageous social experiment
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should be stopped before they force feed our children and punish parents who oppose
them.
De Weerd: Thank you for your testimony.
Burchfield: Thank you.
De Weerd: We appreciate it.
Coles: Next we have signed up Darrell Burchfield, against, would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
D.Burchfield: Darrell Burchfield. 4690 Mendelson, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
D.Burchfield: My wife's put it as succinctly I think as possible, but I wanted to add this:
My wife and I are both realtors and have been realtors here for close to 25 years and as
you have noticed as of late, we have had a huge influx of people from -- shall I say that
Golden State and when I take a phone call from them inquiring about why they are
moving up here, many times they start off the conversation -- I got to get out of here. I
say what is that? It's so consistent. They said it's just nuts. And I see this -- they feel
like there is so -- such an overbearing governmental intrusiveness into their lives that
they just -- they hear about Idaho, they like what they hear and I can tell you from
personal experience these people -- they are great people. They are not -- I'm -- let's
just put it this way: We have seen how much Meridian has grown. These people are
moving here because they want what we have. Well, we have a -- not an over intrusive
and intrusive government. I do not believe that we need this legislation. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Next signed up is Thad Butterworth, against, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. I will ask you all to state your name and address, so I will
spare you that every single time. So, welcome.
Butterworth: Thank you. Thad Butterworth. 478 East Lake Creek Street in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Butterworth: And I want to thank you guys for having this hearing. This is a really
important issue. I'm here representing a couple of different parts of our community,
both faith and business. I'm involved in business. I make hiring decisions in -- and I
have made hiring decisions over the years. I realize that discrimination can be a real
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issue, but this ordinance is going to bring a lot of unnecessary risk to the business
community and from my standpoint especially. There are already a lot of options for the
LGBTQIA community to resolve issues of discrimination. They have got the
constitutionally protected rights that they already -- that are already existing. They have
also proven themselves very capable of using social media and other options that are
available to them to address issues of a perceived bias or discrimination. A great
example of that is Brendan Eich, the founder of Mozilla, who is no longer with that
company because of one donation he made to a pro family organization. As somebody
who has done hiring and firing, I have always looked for the best person possible for a
job. I have hired members of the LGBTQIA community without hesitation. I'm always
concerned about who is going to be the best person for the job, but when I look at this
from a business standpoint, the risk it brings me is this: If I have to give somebody a
bad review or if they are a nonperforming employee or I have to lay somebody off, I now
have to consider not only civil -- potential civil actions that they perceive or get the
impression for some reason that this is based on discrimination, now I have to consider
there could be criminal charges as well. So, this brings a lot of risk to those of us in the
business community and I think there will be other businesses who, like me, will believe
that we need to take our business elsewhere, rather than continue working here
because of the risk it presents to us. I would also like to say from a faith-based
standpoint, the fact that this has been historically used against Christian business
owners and those of faith, this presents a real danger for anybody in the situation. If
you -- as the examples that Brittany gave of Jack Phillips and some of these others
where they have been faced with ruination simply because they held to their deeply held
religious beliefs and didn't compromise on them. To me this is such a huge risk that I
would strongly urge you to oppose this and vote no on this. To the members of the
LGBTQIA community, I would say this: Please carefully consider the temptation to use
the force of government to silence dissent, because it can and it will be used against
you. History has proven it and if you silence those who would have stood for you in the
first place, there will be no one left to speak for you. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Steve Strickland signed up against, would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Strickland: Thank you. My name is Steve Strickland. My address is 3357 South Caleb
Way, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Strickland: And the First Amendment says Congress shall make no law respecting an
establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof or abridging the
freedom of speech. I am a Vietnam vet who, along with hundreds of thousands of
others, have paid for the ultimate price of freedom of religion, speech, and conscience
from the frostbitten, shoeless swelter suffering disease and death at Valley Forge, to the
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American soldiers who died in the muds of Verdun in World War I, to the sailors on
liberty ships who died in the freezing waters of the North Atlantic when their ships were
torpedo by German U-Boats, to those who died in the steamy jungles of Vietnam, any
undermining of the freedom of speech and religion would devalue the great price and
shed blood to defend these freedoms. That would be the ultimate dishonoring of
veterans and betrayal. Nondiscrimination. The term is really a clumsy disguise for an
anti-God authoritarian rule. The gay agenda is putting Christians in positions of
violating their Christian convictions. Now, just let me give you an example. We have
already seen one example of the baker, which recently in June of 2018, the Supreme
Court ruled favoring the Colorado wedding cake maker for refusing service because of
the exercise of conscience and religion. We also have the case of the photographers
that -- that -- in New Mexico -- and I have been a photographer at weddings and you are
intricately involved with that wedding and to a certain extent you are being part of it, you
are partnering with -- it's -- it's against the -- your conscience. Let me go on here.
Okay. In Canada it's -- a quote: It's all over but the funeral. Free speech and religious
liberty is now effectively dead in Canada. On April 28th the Canadian senate passed
Bill C250 by a vote of 59 to 11. In passing this legislation the Canadian Parliament
added sexual orientation to the nation's law criminalizing hate speech. The end result
was that the Bible maybe now be considered a form of criminal -- criminalization hate
literature and Christians who teach that homosexuality is sinful may face criminal
charges. Excuse me. George Washington in his farewell speech said: Reason and
experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in the exclusion of
religious principle. Lastly, I would like to say that -- oh.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Strickland: Okay. Thank you.
Coles: Next is Christopher Deile, in favor, would like to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us.
Deile: Thank you. My name is Christopher Deile. I had a broken nose when I was
younger, so my voice isn't very good.
De Weerd: That's all right.
Deile: But, yeah, I appreciate this. I want to point out just straight away -- maybe a lot
of people are not aware --
De Weerd: Sir, can you give us your address.
Deile: I'm homeless. I have been homeless for 18 years to be -- due to being openly
gay and being discriminated against, being flagged, bad jacketed, because I came out
of the closet and I utilized anti-discrimination ordinance in Tucson, Arizona, in 1993. I
was on ABC News for three nights in a row and since, then, I have been flagged and my
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life has been ruined. I want to point out that Barry Goldwater, the late Barry Goldwater,
he was alive back then in 1993. I contacted him and I asked him if he would help me,
because his grandson was gay. A lot of people don't know Barry Goldwater was in favor
of gay rights, because his grandson is gay, and he politely declined, he said because he
was a resident of Phoenix that he wouldn't become -- it wouldn't be proper for him to
become involved in city of Tucson affairs. But I appreciated that he wrote me back and
politely declined, but the city of Tucson did not back me up on their ordinance, even
though it was clear to everybody in the workplace that I was discriminated against due
to coming out of the closet for being gay. I want to point out here -- what I read in the
newspaper was that the -- one of the council members pointing out that they don't --
they are not aware of any discrimination in the -- in the City of Meridian at all. Just
because you're not aware of it doesn't mean that it's not happening. Okay. It's -- it's a
very subtle thing a lot of times. You know, like African Americans, they pointed out
when they were attacked with hoses and dogs, they were actually grateful for that and it
was very blatant, it was overt, and you could see the discrimination and they couldn't
deny it. So, a lot of times it's very -- it's an overt, it's subvert. Now, what I wanted to
point out is that the -- with the City of Meridian -- you have Alcohol Anonymous
meetings. I have been clean and sober 33 years.
Bernt: Congratulations.
Deile: I have experienced discrimination within Alcoholics Anonymous and I hate to say
this, because a lot of it is very helpful. They did a lot of helpfulness for me. But I have
experienced extreme discrimination within AA over this issue. The way Alcoholics
Anonymous is set up is if you -- they have gay AA meetings, which is a special interest
group, which is segregation and you can see the logic involved, because it puts people
-- it takes them out of the mainstream and puts them where it's safe where they can talk
about being gay in relation to their alcoholism. I have tried to break through that
segregation and talk about my being gay in relation to my alcoholism in the regular
straight meetings and I have been discriminated against. I have been attacked --
physically attacked in the meetings by a man with a bald head -- a biker man that
clawed me physically, gouged my -- my ribs by trying to drive me out of the room
physically, et cetera, et cetera. I don't have time to go into the details. But what I
wanted to point out is that AA is court ordered and you have got the serenity prayer, it
opens up with the serenity prayer, but, then, if you go online and you look, the author of
the serenity prayer was the Protestant Theologian Rheinhold Niebuhr, one of the most
famous theologians of the past century. Most highly respected. In 1958 in his interview
with Mike Wallace, Niebhur says -- states, quote: So, one of the basic democratic
principles as we know it in America is the separation of church and state, end quote.
De Weerd: Thank you, Christopher.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
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Bernt: Christopher.
De Weerd: Christopher, a question.
Bernt: I have one question for you. First off a comment. Congratulations on your
sobriety for 33 years. That's awesome. I'm happy to hear that.
Deile: Thanks.
Bernt: Another question I have. You mentioned earlier that there was -- you had heard
that there was someone in our -- in our body that mentioned that there was no
discrimination in the City of Meridian. Did I mishear that? Is that what you said?
Deile: It's in the newspaper.
Bernt: Okay.
Deile: I have got a copy.
Bernt: Okay.
Deile: Yeah.
Bernt: May I ask who -- who that -- does it mention --
Deile: Ty . Ty Palmer.
Bernt: Okay.
Deile: Yeah . And I'm not blaming him. He just said he wasn't aware of any. Just
because you're not aware of it doesn't mean it's not happening.
Bernt: I just wanted to be clear. Thank you for that.
Deile: Sure.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Christopher, thank you for clarifying that, that I said I wasn't aware of any, not
that there wasn't any, and I would love to hear, you know, if there is situations where
that has happened within Meridian. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Next signed up is Casey Minshew, against, wishing to testify.
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De Weerd: Good evening.
Minshew: My name is Casey Minshew. I live at 3325 North Boulder Creek Avenue here
at Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Minshew: Dear Meridian City Council. Born in 1953 and a native of this great state, I
count it an honor and a privilege to be called an Idahoan. As an Idahoan I'm very proud
of our conservative values. This is one reason Idaho has been such a great place to
live and raise a family. Getting to the point of Meridian's proposed anti-discrimination
ordinance, I honestly believe it protects and endorses homosexuality. I feel that
homosexuality are human beings like you and I and are not to be judged by our
personal views. However, what does God say about it. We all get caught up in our own
personal sins and like everyone else, LGBTQ desires love, peace, and acceptance, too,
but it is a lifestyle that, according to the Bible, is wrong. God created male and female,
an institution of marriage between a man and a woman, a marriage where two people
come together and bond as one. This union through God becomes one of the
cornerstones of our society. A v ery beautiful, meaningful, and balance of life. A life that
pro creates, a union that makes sense. As parents we should be raising our children to
understand and be proud of their male and female genders. This is one of the primary
facets of the circle of life. In regards to homosexuality, it doesn't make sense.
Procreation doesn't happen without a male and a female coming together. God has
created a union that has been tested through the millenniums. Please don't confuse
creation. Male and female genders are biologically established at conception, which are
beautiful and fully balanced creations. God, through his Word, has never accepted, nor
condoned a homosexual lifestyle. His Word actually calls it an abomination to the Lord,
which is sin. Just because gay lifestyles have come out of the closet and progressives
are promoting this lifestyle saying it's a natural choice and we have the right to choose
what gender we want to become doesn't make it right. We can't allow our schools to
bypass our biological dinner -- or gender and turn our children -- and teach our children
they have the right to be the gender of choice. What does the Bible say about
homosexuality? Our church -- our children deserve to know we are created in the
image of our Creator, both male and female. Please know that God loves all people,
that as sinners he can't accept our sins, this is why the deity of God, Jesus Christ, came
down from heaven in the flesh to pay the ultimate sacrifice on the cross for our sins.
That's how much God loves us and that is why we repent and we asked to be forgiven.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Dom Gelsomino signed up in favor, would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Gelsomino: Good evening, Madam Mayor. Before I begin my time may I have your
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consent, Madam Mayor, to approach the clerk and provide them with a transcript of my
testimony for the Council.
De Weerd: Yes. Thank you.
Gelsomino: Madam Mayor, my name is Dom Gelsomino. My address is 3034 West
Acarrera Lane in Meridian. Madam Mayor -- excuse me. Madam Mayor, esteemed
Members of the City Council, thank you for the privilege of addressing you this evening.
Tonight our great city stands before the rest of the state to address and consider one of
the most important civil rights issues of the 21st century. I rise today as a Christian,
conservative, gay man in strong support of this ordinance, because as an ardent
supporter of the U.S. Constitution, the accompanying Bill of Rights, and as a fighter for
civil liberties and natural rights, I believe that this ordinance is one step further in
advancing our founding fathers mission of creating a more perfect union where all its
people enjoy life, liberty, and can pursue happiness and prosperity. Now, I truly believe
that the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights are some of the greatest legal
documents providing a framework for a successful representative government and
protection of our God given rights to have been penned on paper. On July 9th, 1868,
the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution was ratified and in addition to the
provisions it guaranteed, it also forbids the state from denying any person life, liberty,
and the pursuit of happiness without due process of law or to deny any person within its
jurisdiction equal protection of the laws. Since then we have improved as a society in
abiding by those founding principles, struggling -- struggling along the way, but,
nonetheless, making progress. My conservative track record as a candidate for office
and as a private citizen are indisputable. However, I do believe in civil liberties and civil
rights and it is the role of the government to protect and uphold everybody's civil
liberties and civil rights. All of us in this room at some point have been discriminated
against, whether gender, race, age, religion. For some of us now that protection is
under federal and state law. For others the federal government and the state
governments have failed us and so it is up to the local government to uphold their
responsibility of defending the well being and the rights of its citizens. Madam Mayor,
Members of City Council, I recognize the existence of opposition to this ordinance
across our city and I recognize that it is their First Amendment right to hold that
opposition and vocalize it in a peaceful and dignified manner and I will fight just as much
for their right to speak their opposition, as I will fight for the right of those to speak in
favor. I recognize politically that voting in favor of this ordinance can be risky come
election time, but after tonight's vote, after next year's election, will you be able to look
at yourself and say I was a champion of civil liberties or did I stand in the way of
progress. I believe that leaders like President Lincoln and other civil liberty leaders had
a good view and had a favorable -- had a favorable kindness upon history and I urge
your support, because history will look kindly upon you when it comes your time. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Gelsomino: I do apologize. I will stand for any questions.
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De Weerd: There are no questions.
Gelsomino: Thank you, Madam Mayor, City Council.
Bernt: Good to see you, Dom.
Coles: Next on the list is Scott Baumann, signed up against and would like to testify. I
don't see Scott. Zachary White signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us.
White: Thanks. My name is Zachary White and my address is 2430 South China
Rapids Place, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
White: Thanks for letting me speak. The United States is a country that protects the
freedoms that are guaranteed under the First Amendment. Sexual orientation and
gender identity laws or SOGI laws unnecessarily trample all over the rights given to
citizens of the U.S. under the First Amendment. They give special privileges that
become enforceable against private actors, such a small business owners and those
who attend religious institutions. These laws turn innocent citizens into criminals --
criminals based on subjective and unverifiable identity, not objective biological traits.
This, in turn, gives power to activist groups and allows for unnecessary government
intervention in small businesses, religious institutions, and the lives of private citizens.
In many cities where SOGI laws have been passed we have seen time and time again
people of faith made out to be criminals, because the City Council, such as yourselves,
or a state government, has passed a law that undermines the First Amendment. Take
for some examples Jack Phillips of Masterpiece Cake shop in Colorado or Barronelle --
Barronelle Stutzman of Arlene's Flowers in Washington and Sweet Cakes by Melissa in
Oregon, each one sued or fined because their city councils or state governments did not
protect their religious liberty and freedom of speech. We can all be sure that if this
ordinance is allowed to pass there will be cases like that that pop up in our city and I
implore you as the City Council of Meridian to vote against this ordinance and continue
defending religious liberty and freedom of speech here in this great city. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Zachary.
Coles: Next is Mark Bryan, signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening, pastor.
Bryan: Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Mark Bryan and I reside at
2183 West Santa Clara Drive in Meridian.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Bryan: I appreciate the work that you have put into this and I appreciate especially to
the Council and the Mayor the desire to bring people together, rather than to polarize
and to protect those who need protection. The concern of my heart tonight would be
that we have to be careful when we talk about protection and when we talk about these
kind of ordinances, that they don't come, as we have heard testimony give, in a way that
will protect one at the hurt of another, that they would give a right that is not equal. We
have heard, as our friends have testified in favor, that our Constitution gives us equal
rights under the law and while that's not always applied and while that has been
violated, it has been our founding principle and our founding fathers will that equal
protection -- that all citizens would feel a desire to give a hand up or to give a help to
someone in need and to not feel a freedom to be prejudiced, but it does never mean
that a person of a different view should be able to have a higher right, an easier
prosecutable position. In other words, if I don't agree with my neighbor I must accept
my neighbor, I must love my neighbor, but if I don't agree with his position he must
accept me -- sorry, I'm used to one mic where I minister. He must accept me and he
must be my neighbor and he must be peaceable and you protect that right and so here
all I would say is we don't want anyone to not have protection under the law and I would
like that all members of Meridian have equal protection under the law. What I would ask
you to consider carefully is any special protection under the law. Equal rights is what is
constitutionally guaranteed. Special rights is what is being requested. A special
condition. A special protection. A special get behind me, city, for a very small minority
of our national population and an even smaller minority of our city. Not that minorities
don't matter or percentages don't matter, but you yourself know, even as you have seen
e-mails and as you have seen arguments and as you have seen people here tonight --
numbers matter. We count them. We read them. We know them. And a 95 or 97
percentile of your city that would say, well, I don't know, from what I have seen from the
national argument, from the incivility we see that is engendered by these laws, we are
not so sure this is the wise thing for us. Thank you for what you have done --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bryan: -- trying to make it fair. Appreciate it.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Thank you, pastor. So, it sounds like you're a proponent for this not as an
ordinance, though, but as a statewide law, so that everybody would have equal
protection?
Bryan: Correct.
Milam: Okay. So, you would support that --
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Bryan: Fairness under the law as we know it, yes.
Milam: Okay.
Bryan: Not seeing a need, as any have defined it yet, for special protection over a
special group, particularly when civil rights have had to do with civil issues that have
had to do with unchangeable birth order events. My race, my color, as has been
mentioned here early -- or on my -- where I was born, how I was born, if I'm
handicapped. We understand all those things. But now we are talking about special
rights for choices, not equal rights for conditions, which has historically been what we
have done. I'm sorry, I hope that answers your question.
Milam: Yes. Thank you.
Coles: Next is Carolyn Blackhurst, signed up in favor and would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Blackhurst: I'm Carolyn Blackhurst. I live at 643 East Sedgwick Street here in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Blackhurst: Madam Mayor, Members of the Meridian City Council, my name is Carolyn
Blackhurst, I live in the Bedford Place Subdivision here in Meridian. My husband and
my family moved to Meridian all the way from Boise in 1999, because we love this city
and because we wanted our son to attend school in the Meridian School District. I'm
here to speak in favor of the nondiscrimination ordinance. I have served as a high
school Sunday school teacher and youth leader for 14 years. I have also served -- I
have also served as a church camp dean for high school age kids the past four years.
At camps, Sunday school and in youth group meetings I have had so many kids share
with me their fear and their hurt they have experienced because they are lesbian, gay,
bisexual or transgender. These kids have been rejected by their families, their
churches, their friends, their youth leaders and more, simply because of the way they
were born. They are bullied and picked on and feel unsafe in their schools and
community. I have met kids who are suicidal and who have tried to self harm. Our
youth are hurting and they are afraid and as a person of faith I'm not okay with that. It
breaks my heart. By adopting this nondiscrimination ordinance the City of Meridian will
be sending a clear message of inclusivity and tolerance to our youth and more. You as
the Meridian City Council have an opportunity to make a compassionate decision and to
proclaim this city is one that values and welcomes all people. This is good for our
citizens, for our schools and it is good for business as well. Unfortunately, there are
both kids and adults who will choose to bully and judge others because they are
lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender. We can't legislate kindness, but we can provide
a measure of safety and a message that Meridian will not tolerate hate. This
nondiscrimination ordinance is a tangible way for the Meridian City Council to provide
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protection and just send a message to our youth, to our businesses and to our nation
that in this great city you are welcomed, you are protected, and you matter. I am asking
you tonight as a person of faith --
De Weerd: Thank you, Carolyn.
Coles: Kristi Benenate, signed up against and would like to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Benenate: Kristi Benenate. 517 West Pine Avenue, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kristi.
Benenate: I won't take very long. Many thoughts have already been expressed, but I --
I do have to say in this measure the rules for the bathrooms, public restrooms I find very
concerning. I have two small daughters, two and four, and I'm pregnant with our third
and I must say, to be honest, I'm not as concerned with people of a different gender
preference, as I am of those who would enter an opposite restroom to take advantage
of those rules. For example, being straight, but going into an opposite sex restroom
because they want to. I don't see any protection for this risk and we have seen in other
states and other places incidents happen as a result of -- of I guess this looseness. I
believe there is other solutions for public bathrooms that would provide more safety. To
me I feel this is opening a lot of danger, especially for children and especially in schools
to accommodate something that could be accommodated another way.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Kristi.
Cavener: Kristi, would you mind answering a question?
Benenate: Yes.
Cavener: I just was curious. You said you have got some other solutions. I'm just
curious what those are.
Benenate: Well, I have noticed many places have single restrooms. Just one person at
a time, and in my mind a solution like that would be a lot simpler, a lot safer, especially
where children are concerned. I don't think it's wrong to take precautions.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Coles: Robert Juengling signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Juengling: Good evening. My name is Robert Juengling. I reside at 2209 East Shark
Tail Street in Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Juengling: Madam Mayor, City Councilors, thank you for taking the time to listen to me
this evening. I am here to speak to you about why you should support the ordinance to
add Section 63-13 to the city code. More specifically to add sexual orientation and
gender expression or identity as a protected class with regard to these persons' right to
work, access to public accommodation, and a right to housing. This issue is extremely
important to me. I am an openly gay man and my husband and I moved here to Idaho
in 2016 for him to attend a graduate program at Boise State University and we have
since settled here and decided to make Idaho our home. One of our concerns in
moving to Idaho was discrimination against us because our sexual orient -- because of
our sexual orientation. As part of the LGBT plus community we have heard horror
stories of LGBT plus families moving across the country, only to be met with
discrimination that prevents them from -- from the ability to work and provide for their
families. We were relieved when we found out that Boise had an NDO and it was one
of the deciding factors for our move to the state. Had there not been an NDO in place in
Boise we would not have moved here. My husband and I have recently moved to
Meridian. We just purchased a home here and intend to start and raise a family. We
were somewhat hesitant to make the move as the city did not have an NDO in place
and are incredibly excited that this ordinance has been brought before you. It's
important to us that these protections are put into place and will extend to us and our
family, so that we can be assured that our rights will be protected and that the city will
value us as citizens. In its mission the city states that it's our town and our mission to
cultivate a vibrant community. In its vision the city states that by 2035 it wants to be the
west's premier community in which to live, work, and raise a family and its value of
respect to the city states we honor, accept, and include people with diverse opinions
and backgrounds. This resolution supports your mission, vision, and values.
Furthermore, it will attract more talent and more business. Unequal treatment of
LGBTQ plus people can cause economic harm leading to lower economic output for
individuals and businesses. The 2018 Open For Business report suggests that LGBTQ
plus inclusive cities are a better place to develop their global competitiveness. To vote
no for this ordinance would run counter to the city's mission and values. It will also
seriously impede the city's ability to achieve its vision. As a citizen of Meridian and as
one of your constituents I am urging you all for your support on this ordinance. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Coles: Next is Brent Gould, signed up against, would like to testify. I don't see Brent.
Okay. Nevine Carew signed up to testify as neutral. I don't see -- Stephen T. Sherer,
signed up against, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Sherer: Thank you, Your Honor. My name is Stephen Sherer. My address is 2090 Star
Lane, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Sherer: Your Honor Mayor and Councilmen, I assume that you received my letter that I
have -- have written. I'm not going to rehash it here, except to say it's -- it's been very
interesting to listen to the people who are in favor of this ordinance. They come up and
announced their sexual orientation. I don't want to hear their sexual orientation. I don't
want to hear anybody's sexual orientation. If that becomes a public thing then -- then I
think we are going wrong as a society in the first place. I want to take people at face
value for what they have to say, for who they are, for the values they espouse and that
includes honesty, integrity, and accountability. Those are the things that are important
and -- and -- and as I mentioned in my letter, the problem with this type of an ordinance
is that this is playing something called identity politics. You divide people into various
groups and, then, you favor or disfavor a group based on the current social scheme.
That's why we have a Constitution that -- that was supposed to be in place and -- and to
be read according to exactly what it says, not what someone else makes it say and you
have heard about these -- these laws in various other places. They have been used as
swords to attack people who don't agree with them. I have cited a couple of examples
in my -- in my letter about situations where -- where, you know, somebody can file a
complaint against me if I decide not to take a case, if I decide not to hire a person and --
and it doesn't cost them anything. They file a complaint. Then I have to fight through
the criminal process. I'm probably not completely unable to do that, but at the same
point this becomes a burden on every businessman who goes about offering a service,
offering an accommodation, offering something else. I did see some of the other letters
that were written and I noticed that they all -- that many of them -- not all of them, but
many of them said exactly the same thing. Somebody printed that letter and prepared it
to send to the City Council. You know, that's fine, but it doesn't really show any analysis
and I haven't heard any analysis about why you should pass this ordinance. I have
heard some really vague notions of fairness and -- and some vague notions of equal
protection under the laws, but you're not talking about equal protection for someone of
an identifiably objective difference, you're not talking about a black person, an oriental
person, Hispanic person, who can identify by their -- by their skin color, you're talking
about something that is absolutely arbitrary.
De Weerd: Thank you, Stephen.
Coles: Next is Gary Bliss signed up against and would like to testify.
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De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: I'm not seeing Gary. Okay. Mary Mosley in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Mosley: Good evening. I'm Mary Graybill Mosley. I live at 3661 North Timber Lakes
Way in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Mosley: And thank you for giving me the opportunity to be heard tonight. I'm a
Meridianite. I was born here. My family farmed out on Highway 20 when I was born
and I -- I lived here until we moved to Nampa and why I have deep roots here I think.
My mother and my sister are both teachers here in the Meridian School District, have
spent the major part of their teaching careers here in Meridian. So, I feel like I have a
big stake in what happens in this city. I really appreciate the City Council considering
this ordinance and I'm here tonight to speak as President of the Southwest Idaho
Chapter of the National Organization for Women. We are the foremost women's rights
organization in the nation, founded in 1966. Our purpose is to take action through
intersectional grassroots activism to promote feminist ideals, lead societal change,
eliminate discrimination, achieve and protect the rights of all women and girls in all
aspects of social, political, and economic life. We are committed to fighting
discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in all areas, including
employment, housing, public accommodations, health services, child custody and
military policies. NOW asserts the right of LGBTQIA individuals to live their lives with
dignity and security and promotes marriage equality for all. Now on a personal level. I
have heard about some other people's sincerely held religious beliefs and I would like to
tell you about my sincerely held religious beliefs and I hope you will keep them in mind.
The first principle of my religion is the inherent worth and dignity of every human being
with no exceptions. I would hope that you would respect my religious beliefs as well. I
believe that this ordinance would uphold that particular religious belief and I strongly
urge you to approve the ordinance. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Just a quick question for you. When you gave your address you
mentioned Meridian, but, then, you said until you move to Nampa, so I'm just trying to
keep a count --
Mosley: Oh, I live in Meridian now.
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Palmer: You live in Meridian now. Okay.
Mosley: 3661 North Timber Lakes Way.
Palmer: Perfect. Thank you.
Mosley: I lived here as a child, I moved to Nampa and lived there for a while, then, I
moved back here, so --
Palmer: Well, welcome back.
Mosley: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mary.
Mosley: Anything else?
Coles: Roger De Amicis signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
De Amicis: Hello. Can you hear me?
De Weerd: Yes.
De Amicis: Roger De Amicis. 3834 West Harbor Point Drive, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
De Amicis: Okay. We are asking you to vote against SOGI ordinance. I'm just going to
tell you why -- why I feel it. I don't believe it represents the interest of the City of
Meridian, at least the people I know and the businesses. It would be nice to get the
whole City of Meridian and get their mind on it. We have a nice crowd here, but it would
be nice to really see what the City of Meridian is and I know what you're trying to do, but
Meridian has thrived since 1903 without this. I don't think we need it. Also -- I know
there is strong passions on both sides, felt hurts on both sides, but to me part of this is,
you know, I just found out about this morning and, then, I said I got to find out what's
going on and I know there is issues here, but I noticed that there is an agenda here
called Movement Advancement Project. So, it's not by accident this is happening to
Meridian, to Boise, to every city in the U.S. If they are coming they want to have this
ordinance. You know, we as Meridian have decided is this -- does this represent us as
a -- as a -- as a -- as a culture. Is this why people come to move here? I'm also
concerned this may be a gateway ordinance to other things that we had no idea. So,
you know, I want you to consider all sides, but I would like you to consider those who
actually live here and those who have businesses here.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Coles: James Thompson signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Thompson: Hello. My name is James Thompson. I live on 857 East Cougar Street
here in Meridian. My thing is is that Meridian is -- is a great place. We got people
coming in here from all over, because this is a great town. This -- and the implication
that we as -- as a city are discriminating against homosexuals and people like that -- I
have friends that are homosexuals, I -- and -- and it's -- it's not about their sexual
identity. We have beliefs and we choose not to discuss those, but we -- we agree on
things that we don't. The thing that I'm worried about is the door that we are opening for
people that want to take advantage of that, that's -- I mean there is great people in this
room that have that -- that -- they are great people and -- and we are talking about
human beings. Okay? If someone's being discriminated against as a human being and
there is laws that protect people from getting abused, there is laws against things like
that and it's -- and we don't have that problem right now. The City of Meridian is great
and my biggest thing is I have three -- I have three daughters and I don't have the luxury
of being able to go into with them to restrooms or places like that and the doors that we
are opening for people that want to take advantage of things, it -- it fears me as a -- as a
father, because I have three daughters that if I am standing outside of that room -- and I
as a man don't want to go in that room and watch women go to the bathroom, but how
do I know that there is not somebody in that room that wants to take advantage of that
situation and do something to my daughters that will damage them eternally and this is
not against anybody and their sexual orientation, it's not -- I'm not -- it's not against
them. I'm worried about those people that have nothing to do with any side of this
argument right here, that look at this as an opportunity to come in and create
destruction. That's my fear, you know, and -- and the thing that I'm -- you know, it's like
this is the other thing that I'm looking at, as a business owner -- I mean I'm not a
business owner, but I used to be and if I'm forced to do a job that I don't think I could be
successful at, I, as a business owner, should have that choice to say, no, I can't do this
job, but if that person wants to force me to do that job and -- and they are of -- of sexual
orientation that you guys choose to be of a higher decision than who I am as a person,
it's violating my rights. What about -- what about my rights as a person, you know, and
that's what I'm hearing over and over again. It's like we are not here to attack anybody.
We are not here to put anybody down. If -- laws are not going to stop bad people. We
have laws in place to stop crimes, but they still happen. You can't stop people from
doing bad things. I can't stop someone from doing something bad towards me and laws
will not stop that. But the doors that we are going to open with opening this door, with
just allowing that to happen, the floodgates are going to come in and, honestly --
De Weerd: Thank you, James.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: I don't have a question, really, just -- but I wanted to address it, as a couple of
people have mentioned the bathroom situation and I have a young son and he's finally
to the age where he won't go into women's bathroom with me and it is terrifying. So, I --
and I can't go in the men's bathroom, so I send him in by himself and if a pervert is
going to be in a bathroom, they are going to do it regardless of any kind of ordinance
like this. I don't think this encourages that. If somebody wants to be -- we are not
talking about perverts here and so if those criminals and child molesters want to do that,
they are going to do it anyway. They could already be dressed up however they want.
Thompson: But -- and you're right.
Milam: It's terrifying. I agree with you.
Thompson: And I -- but I hear you on this -- on this part. If -- right now if we see a man
walk into a woman's bathroom, I guarantee you that there is going to be concern,
because that is a women's bathroom. With this sexual orientation what's to stop me
from saying, you know what, I would like to go in that bathroom, you know, what --
Milam: Don't take your daughters in that bathroom. Absolutely.
Thompson: But that's -- but I just don't think that it's good for us to open that door
where we have people's lives -- I mean, yes, I agree with you that, that anybody can
show up in a bathroom. That is -- that is -- that is right. But why open -- it's like the
gate's this wide, why throw the gate this wide.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Phillip Stucker signed up in favor, would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Stucker: Howdy.
De Weerd: Howdy.
Stucker: My name is Philip Stucker from 106 West Idaho Avenue, Meridian, Idaho.
83642.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Stucker: Honorable Mayor and City Council, I identify as a straight white, cisgender
male, raised in a conservative Christian household and I am going to say all that,
because it matters. I have lived here all my life. I literally walked here from my family
home one block away. Meridian Elementary. Meridian Middle. Meridian High.
Represent. I have seen Meridian grow just like you and I have seen it blossom into the
ever more diverse community than I ever could have imagined. The very identity of this
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Treasure Valley has changed in front of my very eyes, but you wouldn't know if you
leave the state. We have the highest hate groups per capita in the country. Now, that
doesn't mean we have the most hate groups. It means that per million people we have
the highest amount that say, man, people who are different sure do scare me and I hate
them. Outside of our state I was surprised, albeit not too much, to learn that the rest of
the country doesn't think about us all that much and what little they do think about us
isn't good. What did they tell -- what do I hear a lot of? Well, other than the obvious,
another one I get is it isn't that where the KKK moved to? So, that's how we are still
known to the rest of the country. They want what we have. Unbridled discrimination
and potatoes. So, it seems like we have an identity crisis in Meridian. Who we are on
the inside doesn't match how the world perceives us. As a kid growing up I always
heard hate the sin, love the sinner. It's one of the great Christian montras and many
Christians I find have unorthodox ways of showing that love. For me the most Christian
way to show love, to be the light of the world we know we are isn't to continue to allow
this glaring omission from our rules defining basic human rights that already -- that
already protect things that are subjective and unprovable, like my religion. I wasn't born
a Christian, I chose to be a Christian. I can't prove that. I can't prove my faith. It isn't
our loopholes that lead us to be a haven for hatred and bigotry. It's to be open to
everyone as Jesus was, even if we disagree with them. Even if they eat pigs and
shellfish. Leviticus 11. It's to fight for the downtrodden and those who have been
voiceless and to be a light until to the world. It's to change the very way the world sees
us and express the real identity of our community and state we live in, an identity of
acceptance and love to the world. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Phillip.
Milam: Madam Mayor? Sorry.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I just have a -- I do have a quick question, because most of the things we do
here are land use and never does anybody come up and say I'm gay or transgender.
We don't get that. This is what -- this is a first time. So, could you tell me, again, what
your identity is? I missed it, because --
Stucker: Phillip Stucker. He. Him. Identify as a straight, white, cisgender male. That
means exactly what I say it means.
Milam: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thanks for that definition.
Coles: Next Martha and John Mundt. Signed up in favor and want -- want to testify.
Mundt: My name is Marti Mundt. My name is Marti Mundt and I live at -- my husband
and I -- at 716 South Tiburon Avenue in Meridian.
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De Weerd: Thank you, Marti. Will you pull your mic down.
Mundt: And we had been residents of Meridian for over 50 years ago when we
graduated from the U of I and moved down here to begin our teaching careers and I
must -- I must say that in all of the years that we both taught -- I taught special ed, my
husband taught agriculture -- that I have no idea if I had any gay students in my
classroom and neither did my husband, but that -- what would have that had mattered?
Nothing. It didn't matter at all. I would like to say thank you to all of you for letting us
have this important discussion from both sides of the -- of the aisle. It's -- it's good to
listen to those that feel the way I do and those that don't and perhaps get a -- get a
meeting place. Twenty years ago upon coming out to us, our son Peter said you have
always said you loved me, enjoyed me, and very proud of me. That was when -- that
was then and this is now. Now that I have shared with you that I am a gay young man
have you changed your mind? Are you no longer proud of me? Do you no longer love
me? Or do you no longer enjoy being with me? And my answer to him -- and my
husband agreed -- that it was a blessing to us when you were born and it is a blessing
to us now that we find out we have a wonderful gay Christian son that we love, that we
enjoy and that we have a lot of time with and we are very proud of him. I think my -- my
favorite Bible verse, if I may say something religious, is Matthew 7:2, judge not that you
be judged, and it comes from the King James Version of the Bible. Thank you so much.
De Weerd: Thank you, Marti.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I know we have --
De Weerd: Marti, I think we might have a question.
Cavener: Sorry. It's not a question. It's just more of a comment. I know we are going
to be late and I don't know if you are going to stay -- you taught me Bible songs as a
child at Christ Lutheran and I didn't expect -- I didn't expect -- I don't know if you're
going to stay all night, but I just wanted to say thanks and it's nice to have you here.
Give me -- give me gas for my Ford, keep me trucking for the Lord, give me gas in my
Ford I pray. Appreciate you being here.
De Weerd: Now did Marti teach you that or did John?
Coles: Rudy Patrick is next. Signed up against, would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Patrick: My name is Rudy Patrick. I live at 673 East Kaibab Trail Street here in
Meridian and this is -- I found out about this Sunday. This is my first opportunity to be in
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front of the Council and I appreciate the opportunity to do so. After finding out I
reviewed the statute and I'm an attorney, I practice here in Meridian, and I reviewed the
ordinance -- or the proposed ordinance and it seemed to me to be fairly benign based
upon much of the usage that I have seen across the nation as a sword, but I still have
some very deep concerns in it and I appreciate the Council's efforts to balance many
things, but when something in our country that purports to protect all of us equally
singles out a group of people for special protection, I find great concern. Like many of
you I'm a businessman here in Meridian and at least consider myself that as an attorney
and I don't take everyone who comes into my office. I don't make money if I don't take
clients. I serve people to make my living, but I don't take all of them and I'm deeply
concerned that an ordinance like this will force me -- or at least cause me fear in taking
clients that I would otherwise not take simply because there is another thing to be
worried about, that I'm going to find myself facing charges in front of this body and --
and I don't think that's right and I don't think that's fair to the rest of us who wouldn't
claim to be part of the group protected by this. I have another concern and I -- I recently
found out about this, so I -- I think this actually did make it before our legislature and
was discussed, but was decided by our legislators to let it go and I seem to remember
on the news that there was a significant amount of civil disobedience, which is the right
of any party in America, exercised on the part of legislation and I remember state
troopers taking people out of the Capitol building in handcuffs because they refused to
leave and -- and exercising their right to process. In that our legislature said that they
chose -- I mean they chose not to do it. The bill just didn't get there. So, I guess in that
sense you could say that it was considered. I -- I thought about that and I thought about
how we are establishing throughout Idaho a patchwork -- or I don't want to establish a
patchwork of legality here, where something is legal in one community and not legal in
another community and -- and the laws are different from place to place and our
legislature actually did address that in an issue of all things shopping bags a few years
ago when our governor said we will regulate not one of the municipalities -- but we will
regulate shopping bags, because we don't want there to be a patchwork of legalities as
you go throughout the state. I find it very concerting that we might make things legal
and illegal. There has been talk of the protections afforded to us by federal law.
Apparently our state legislature has declined to weigh in on this. I have seen Meridian
through the years lead in certain issues --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Patrick: This is not that issue. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Lea Scrima signed up against, would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Scrima: Good evening. My name is Lea Scrima. I live at 2648 Anatoly in Meridian.
83646.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Scrima: Get my glasses on. Madam Mayor and Members of the City Council, thank
you for allowing me to speak out in opposition of the proposed ordinance today. For
those in the audience I simply ask you to listen and try to understand my perspective.
The ordinance up for consideration is labeled an anti-discrimination ordinance and on
the surface it appears well meaning and many parts of it I agree with. I personally can't
think of anyone I know, even though I know it what happens, I can't think of anyone I
know that would want to exclude an individual from an event, venue, or lodging based
on their gender status or sexual orientation and while it may be well intended to protect
a few, if approved its effect will, instead, discriminate against thousands of people in our
community and will also erode at our public safety. It will cast aside our right to privacy
and the rights of citizens to exercise their faith. While there are a number of polarizing
issues being discussed in today's culture, ensuring that men do not enter public
restrooms and locker rooms with girls and women should not be one of them. I do not
favor discriminatory practices toward our LGBT and transgender community. My
opposition is not about being transphobic or homophobic or allowing laws that allow that
or promote that. All people deserve equal opportunity for employment, housing, and the
ability to adhere to their faith. I do, however, support basic common sense privacy laws
for men, women, and children. Women and girls should not be compelled to undress,
shower, or use the restroom in the presence that men or nor should men and boys be
compelled to do the same in the presence of women. If this ordinance is passed it will
require that public restrooms, locker rooms, other changing and shower facilities be
open to the opposite sex. This has been spoken to by many earlier. In effect it would
allow men to enter restrooms and locker rooms reserved for women and girls and
punish businesses for seek -- simply seeking to safeguard their patrons' fundamental
rights to privacy. Businesses seeking to run their businesses according to their core
convictions could be fined up to 500 dollars per violation. You can easily see how these
businesses can become targets for certain groups. You can just turn on the news and
you will see this happening across the country and while schools, government offices,
and religious facilities are currently exempt from this ordinance. It's only a matter of
time before they, too, are impacted. Additionally, while this ordinance states it supports
the free exercise of our religious beliefs, in the same breath it sets boundaries on these
beliefs. I strongly believe our religious freedom is being under -- is under attack. If you
think I'm being an alarmist, I will refer to the case that's been mentioned by others have
Jack Phillips. Some people in here have heard that, but they may not be completely
familiar with it. He was a -- Jack was a Colorado cake artist who was at the center of
one of the most highly publicized Supreme Court decisions this past year. He -- for six
years he suffered and he faced threats against government punishment simply because
he ran his business according to his faith. As stated earlier he declined a request to
create a wedding cake celebrating a same sex marriage. I will go on to say, though,
what wasn't discussed -- in June when the U.S. Supreme Court finally gave Jack justice
--
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Scrima: Okay. Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Not a question, but just a comment that might finish the thought on this
masterpiece cake shop case. We have included the direction from that case in this
statute, in particular the case's direction that ordinances and review of conduct be
objective and fair and neutral. That case, in quick summary form, raised issues
because the state of Colorado failed to review the complaint in a neutral, unbiased
manner. They did so in a hostile manner, which didn't afford him a fair hearing, an
opportunity to have his freedom of expression position have a voice and so it was
remanded for that particular purpose. One of the principles in that case that Mr. Phillips
and his counsel acknowledged and admitted that should his decision had been one
where he refused to sell any goods to a gay individual, that he conceded and
acknowledged that would have been illegal, it would have been improper. That type of
conduct, which is not what he was trying to do, Mr. Phillips concedes is illegal and
improper. Nonetheless, it was remanded because the state of Colorado had failed to
provide that fair, objective review of the complaint and that is what he is entitled to and
that's what we tried to do and preserve and specifically called out, including that case
citation as the obligation for the review of any complaint in this draft ordinance. So, I
thought it was important to provide a little context to that case and what it did and didn't
say. So, thank you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: No. And -- sorry. Madam Mayor. I don't mean to be rude, but -- okay. We
have got sign-up sheets, so I apologize.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: As a presider of this meeting --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Because some of these things have been brought up several times, would it be
okay if I read the penalty section from the draft ordinance so that -- to any of those who
haven't maybe had a chance to read it personally, have more of an idea of exactly what
it says. It's very short.
De Weerd: Sure.
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Milam: Okay. Thanks. So, penalty. A violation of this chapter shall be an infraction
with a fine of 250 dollars, plus the appropriate court costs for each violation. Two. Any
person who falsely reports a violation of this chapter may be charged with the crime of
false reporting pursuant to Idaho State law of Meridian City Code. So, I think that just
kind of addresses a lot of the fears of people just falsely making accusations, throwing
them out left and right. Well, those -- anybody who makes a false accusation can be
charged for that and the fine is 250 dollars, to clarify. Thanks.
Coles: Next on the list is Elizabeth Price, signed up in favor and would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Price: Good evening, Madam Mayor, President Borton, my name is Elizabeth Lynn
Price. I live at 1715 East Paradise Lane, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Price: I am a spouse, a parent, a grandparent, a business owner and a veteran. I am
here to add my voice in support of the proposed ordinance prohibiting discrimination
based on sexual orientation and gender identity and expression. My primary concern is
the potential for violence and we have seen that violence both locally and nationally.
You only need to read the comments in the comment section on social media in articles
that have anything to do with the LGBT community in our local media to understand that
there are people out there who express not only the desire, but the willingness to take
matters into their own hand and unilaterally execute some kind of penalty up to and
including death. Those threats have been made. A recent event illustrates my point.
Not here in Idaho, but it still illustrates the point. Last month in Achille, Oklahoma, a 12
year old trans girl was threatened online by adults, threatened with knifing, encouraging
other students to assault her. The threats were so credible and so intense that the
school board elected to close the school for two days. The mother sought a restraining
order against one of the individuals, an adult. A 12 year old girl threatened with bodily
injury by adults. Why does that happen? Why is that allowed to happen? Let's not wait
for something like that to happen in our community. Let's send a message loud and
clear that Meridian does not tolerate hate in any form. There are those who believe,
despite the best evidence to the contrary, that one's orientation identity are a choice.
We all have a sexual orientation. We all have a gender identity. If, indeed, it is a
choice, then, let me ask two questions to the assembled population here. When did you
decide that you were straight? And when did you decide that your gender identity was
male or female? Does anybody remember making that choice? I don't think so. All of
us at some point in our lives come to an understanding of self that is fundamental to our
existence and for which only the individual can understand. Nondiscrimination
ordinances do not convey special or additional rights. They convey the community's
belief that all members of the community have equal worth and deserve the same rights
and the same protections.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Price: Thank you.
Coles: Nick Crabbs signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
Crabbs: Hello. My name is Nick Crabbs.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Crabbs: Representing my business, which resides at 2404 West Bank Drive in Boise,
Idaho. I speak publicly a lot for the work that I do and the organizations that I'm part of.
This issue always is more difficult for me to speak about. I'm on the board of directors
for the Meridian Technical Charter High School. I'm on the board of directors for the
Idaho Virtual Reality Council. On the board of advisors for the Boise State Venture
College and College of Innovation and Design. I'm the co-chair of Boise Startup Week.
And I am a grant advisor for the same action center and advise a lot of the state
organizations on how to handle issues of technical hiring and career technical
education. But I wasn't always that person. Once upon a time I was a teenager right
here in Meridian, Idaho, and went to school in Meridian, Idaho. I went to Linder
Elementary. I went to Meridian Middle School. I went to Meridian Technology Charter
High School and my first job in my career was here in Meridian and I was very nervous
going into my first -- my first job, because I didn't know if this was kind of an opportunity
for me to maybe come out. I hadn't up until that point. I'm 18, 19 -- it's 2006 or so. And
ultimately I started my new job and, you know, I had a particularly religious boss and
coworkers. It's 2006. The state had just passed the constitutional ban on gay marriage
and -- and, you know, it was -- and never did. I never did come out at my first
employment here in Meridian and that -- that place was here. City -- the City of
Meridian. I worked here. I moved to Portland after that and I spent a long time kind of
getting to know myself, in which case I did later come out to my friends and family and
moved back and started my business. Today I own one of the largest software
development firms in state of Idaho. We employ 50 people here in Idaho and several
others all over the west coast, three or four offices. Let me tell you what's important
about this is about how these feelings matter. Discrimination comes in a few different
forums and you have to remember that when we are really talking about this, we are
really speaking to the 15 year old version of me. We are speaking to the person that
doesn't feel comfortable in their community and ultimately leaves. You're lucky I came
back. That's who you're speaking to today. So, you know, I hope you take my -- my
comments under consideration and I hope you pass this ordinance. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Nick.
Crabbs: Any questions?
Cavener: Thanks for your testimony.
Coles: Next is Nancy Kuehl signed up against, wanting to testify.
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Kuehl: Thank you all for this.
De Weerd: If you can pull that down. Thank you, Nancy.
Kuehl: Nancy Kuehl. 1954 West Mialzzo Street in Meridian, Idaho. I -- I see this
ordinance -- if you -- I'm against it, but if you were to pass it, okay, what's going to
happen down the road to our children going to school. That's what I worry about as a
grandmother is, okay, well, right now it's just on paper. Okay. Then we get parents and
students involved down the road. Then we have lawsuits. Costs lots of money from
everybody. People lose their businesses. I think that what we have right now is enough
and we do not need an ordinance for a special group of people, because to me every
group of people is special, not one particular group, and I think sometimes that the
reason they have a problem is because they themselves inside feel maybe it's not right,
but they will never say that and I don't have a problem with them. I hope they don't
have a problem with me. And I thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you, Nancy.
Coles: Kathy Griesmyer signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Griesmyer: Yes. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of Meridian City Council. My
name is Kathy Griesmyer. I live in Boise right now, but I grew up at 1472 North
Vineyards Avenue here in Meridian from 1994 until I had to flee my parents home and
move to Boise in 2011.
De Weerd: That does happen, doesn't it?
Griesmyer: It does happen from time to time. Normally I would be here speaking in my
official capacity as a policy director for the ACLU of Idaho, but tonight I want to take my
professional hat off and speak as a former resident of Meridian who grew up here when
we moved to Idaho many years ago and thanking all of you for considering this
ordinance this evening. I know as somebody who has grown up here, my dad still lives
here in Meridian. When my sister comes home from New York City to visit I come and
visit her out here in Meridian quite often. My first job was across the street at -- where
Deja Vu is now, but used to be the very first Smoky Mountain in Meridian and it's been a
long time coming I think for the city to consider an ordinance like this and I want to thank
you all for the opportunity and, especially, for allowing such in-depth public comment on
this issue, because there are a lot of folks who care deeply about the issue on both
sides and I think all folks will really appreciate the opportunity to be here. As a woman
whose sexual orientation is straight and whose gender identity as a cisgender woman, I
know that when I come home to Meridian and I visit my dad I -- when we go out to
dinner I don't have to fear being turned away from a public business because I bring my
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husband with me and we are there, but that's not the same for many other folks who are
gay and transgender and who call Meridian home and I want to share a personal story
of somebody I care really deeply about who I met at church. I grew up going to the Holy
Spirit Catholic Church, which is now Holy Apostles, which is off of Meridian Road and
Chinden and I met my best friend's family going to church and, strangely enough, her
parents grew up in upstate New York with my dad and yet somehow we all ended up on
the same street and the Vineyards Avenue right here in Meridian. My best friend was
the same grade as me. We walked to Meridian Middle School together every day and
her younger brother was the same age as my sister and my best friend and I thought --
we found a way for us to stay friends and maybe sisters for forever. We can marry our
brother and sister together, except that her brother is gay. So, that's not going to
happen. But my best friend's brother is somebody who I spent many Christmases with,
sat at the Thanksgiving dinner table with, New Year's, graduations. He's off to college
now, getting a master's degree in epidemiology, and I really fear about what his
experience would be like when he comes home and visits here when he brings his
boyfriend here, because Meridian doesn't have protections for folks. Everybody has a
gender identity and a sexual orientation and what this ordinance does is puts some
common sense laws on the books that makes sure people know that they can be free
from fear of discrimination when they go out to dinner with their partner, when they start
a new job and want to provide for their families, when they are simply looking for a
home that they can return to after a long day of hard work and I ask that you vote in
supportive of this ordinance. If you will allow me to put my policy hat on as the ACLU
we do try and balance religious freedoms and protections for the LGBT community and I
think this ordinance has done a good job balancing the two.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Griesmyer: Thank you very much for your time.
Coles: Connie Onyon signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Onyon: Hello. My name is Connie Onyon. Hello, Madam Mayor and Council
Members. I have lived here in Meridian for over 15 years. This is my first time I have
ever spoken in front of the Council, so I'm a little nervous. Okay. I would like to
encourage you to pass this ordinance. I have close family and dear friends in the
LGBTQ community and it's vitally important to me that they feel safe when they are here
and -- and feel that they are valued members of our city. We are not asking for special
rights. We are asking for equal rights, equal protections. This ordinance would protect
all people, gay or straight, from unfair treatment based on sexual orientation or gender
identity, which we all have. Okay? Meridian is a wonderful city to live and work in and I
would like to see it continue to grow and thrive and I believe towards this end we need
to continue to attract quality businesses and companies to our city and
nondiscrimination -- nondiscrimination policies and practices are attractive to -- to large
businesses. The Fortune 500 companies, as they protect and welcome all talented
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employees, nondiscrimination policies are good for business and it's just the right thing
to do. I ask you for the sake of the future of our city and for the sake of my family,
please, pass this very important nondiscrimination ordinance. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Onyon: Did I tell you my address?
De Weerd: Yes, you did.
Coles: Laura Knutson signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Knutson: Hello. My name is Laura Knutson. I live at 4993 North Red Hills Avenue.
Madam Mayor, City Council Members, thank you for your time. I'm a mom. I'm also a
Christian. I have worked in Meridian for over 20 years. I have lived in Meridian for four.
I chose to make Meridian my home because it is such a great community. It's friendly.
It's awesome for kids. I love that my -- my kiddos can walk to Settlers Park and watch a
movie on a Friday night and I can pick them up and they have had a great time. I
support the anti-discrimination ordinance -- ordinance. It is important that the City of
Meridian supports and values all its citizens regardless of sexual orientation or gender
identity. Members of the LGBT community are members of our community. They are
our business owners. They are our coworkers. Members of our military. They are our
neighbors, our friends, our family members and our children. They deserve these equal
protections. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Laura.
Coles: Randy Rodes signed up against, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Rodes: Good evening. Mayor Tammy, yeah, my name is Randy Rodes, 2582 Jeffrey
Court, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rodes: Mayor Tammy and City Council Members, it's an honor to be here this evening.
This is an important issue and I really -- the thoughts I have given it, I wanted to share
with you some of my concerns, but thank you for this privilege. I have lived here in
Meridian since the 1970s. It's a great place to live. It's always been a very special
place and as part of the Meridian community we understand there are many people with
many different beliefs. Much has been said that I do agree already that has been said,
but I -- I just -- when I think about this ordinance it -- it sounds right, it sounds
reasonable. It sounds like it's something that should be done and even sounds fair, but
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I really believe that if this is voted and approved it will be a step backwards for the city
and one of the concerns that I do have is for the -- the business people, the small
business people, or whatever size that -- I don't know how this ordinance and passing it
-- how is that not in itself discriminating against the business owner who should also
have the freedom to build their business around their own conscience with God. So, I
just feel like no business person should have to break a law in order to exercise their
own conscience, but should be free to exercise his or her conscience before God
without breaking a law. I certainly -- I know people in the LGBT community. I -- you
know, I love these people. I feel compassion for when they are mistreated. I don't feel
like that should be part of our community, but I feel like making this an ordinance here
will work against the city. As someone else said earlier where -- where does it stop
once we open this door and I know that people are free to -- to choose their own
lifestyle and to live that, but that does not mean that every lifestyle necessarily should
be encouraged or endorsed in any special way. When our country was founded it was
founded on God's standards. I feel like when we start looking at this ordinance, if this
were to be approved, I feel like it crosses a line into an area that actually would change
the standard that God already set. I believe that this is an area that people should be
able to pursue with our own conscience before God and so I look at you as gatekeepers
of this city, just as I am in another sense, and --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rodes: -- we will all have to give an account before God, so I encourage you to not
vote on this.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Kayla McNay signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: I will tell you that it is awkward for us to cut people off in the middle of a
sentence, but thank you all for being so very respectful in spite of its awkwardness. We
appreciate it. Thank you for joining us.
McNay: Hello. My name is Kayla McNay and I live at 1734 West Woodington Street.
De Weerd: Thanks, Kayla.
McNay: Yeah. Where is the timer on here?
De Weerd: Yes, there is.
McNay: Oh. Perfect. Okay.
De Weerd: There you go.
McNay: Hello, all. I grew up in Meridian and this is my home. I attend school here as a
senior at Renaissance High School, I go to work and I plan on continuing my education
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and career here. I appreciate how lucky I am to live here and I enjoy being a member of
the community. In my time as a youth commissioner on the City Parks and Rec and as
well as participating on the Mayor's Youth Advisory Council, I have seen the care and
passion the workers for the city have when it comes to the city and also when it comes
for its citizens. Today I hope it is that care and that passion for bettering the City of
Meridian that will be the driving force in favoring this city ordinance. The
nondiscrimination ordinance will ensure that all citizens have access to the benefits
Meridian offers and be protected from discrimination. It is extremely important not only
to ensure protections for queer folks, but also to stand with the LGBT -- LGBT plus
community in solidarity and show support. Show that Meridian wants the best for all its
citizens -- citizens -- sorry, I'm really nervous --
De Weerd: That's all right.
McNay: -- regardless of gender or sexual -- or sexuality. I attended Lake Hazel Middle
School for the entirety of my middle school years. In seventh grade I came out to my
friends as bisexual. I was nervous, of course, but also excited that I had come to this
point of self realization and self growth. Unfortunately, the days following were
extremely difficult as I endured -- endured homophobic insults throughout my --
throughout every class period and even harassment after school on the bus or walking
home. Classmates I had considered my friends and trusted would throw gay slurs to
me as I came into class or walked down the hallways. My school was no longer a safe
place. My statement of excitement and joy had turned into embarrassment and shame
as a result of the constant homophobic and harmful bullying. Years later I look back and
I'm able to identify the fear and insecurity I had -- sorry -- that I had. It was in seventh
grade that I realized that not only were individuals disapproving of the LGBT -- LGBT
plus community, they had confidence in speaking their hatred as well. I have taken the
fear and insecurity for seventh grade Kayla McNay and I have turned it into
empowerment and pride and that is why I'm here today. All persons, regardless of their
gender identity or sexual orientation, ought to feel empowered and proud of their identity
and the ordinance tonight proposed will recognize this for the citizens of Meridian. All
individuals deserve -- deserve safety and security and it is concerning to see arguments
against these basic human rights. This ordinance will not add special rights to be taken
advantage of like the members in this room argue by fear mongering, be used to attack
others, result is a slippery slope as the fallacy for them to present today or separate our
community. But what it will do is instill protections that are necessary for our citizens.
Although this ordinance will not eradicate homophobia or transform our community, it
will be a monumental step in the right direction for Meridian. By protecting the LGBT
plus rights as a city it stands for safety. It stands for support and it stands for equality.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thanks, Kayla.
McNay: Are there any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Not a question, just thank you for serving our community on the Parks
Commission.
McNay: Yeah. It was amazing. I was really appreciative of the opportunity.
Cavener: What's your favorite park?
McNay: Kleiner.
Cavener: Kleiner. Good pick.
McNay: Thank you.
Coles: Beck DelliCarpini signed up in favorite, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
DelliCarpini: Hello, Madam Mayor and Council Members. My name is Beck
DelliCarpini, like the clerk said, and I was going to share my address with you folks
tonight, but, actually, given some of the testimony I have heard I am a little bit
uncomfortable doing that, so if you will forgive me, I live at the corner of Black Cat and
Meridian, if that's sufficient. So, I live with my partner and our children and I will try to
be brief, because I know there is still a lot of folks who want to share their stories with
you tonight and, first of all, I would like to sincerely thank you all for the work that you do
for our city and for being here tonight considering an issue that's really important to my
family and I also want to thank you in advance for being a governing body that chooses
to extend these protections to LGBTQI community members here in Meridian and I
would also like to share a little bit about my story tonight. So, as you can tell from my
outfit I am a substitute teacher in the West Ada School District and I actually have a
long-term position in a French classroom at a high school and I happen to know that I'm
pretty good at my job, because that's the feedback I get from teachers and students on
a pretty regular basis. I don't mean to toot my own horn, but -- anyway, also I'm working
on a alternative teaching certification and I hope to eventually become a full-time
teacher. Like I said, I know that I'm good at my job, but I also know that I could be
better at my job if I didn't go in every day with this sort of stress of accidentally revealing
my sexual orientation to somebody that I work with or a student, because that could
result in my termination, because I'm not protected in the state of Idaho on the basis of
my sexual orientation or gender identity. If I didn't have that stress looming over me
while I worked I would be able to devote a hundred percent of my energy to learning
objectives and that's where this goes from being an issue that affects me and my family
to being an issue that affects you and your family and, indeed, the entire community,
because when teachers can't focus completely on content that becomes something that
can have an effect on learning outcomes for students and the bottom line for me is that
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our employment should be on the basis of our ability and skill and not our sexual
orientation or our gender identity. The thing is I have never actually faced direct
discrimination on the basis of my sexual orientation in my place of employment,
because nobody I work with knows that I'm gay. So, there has never been the
opportunity for that. If you're interested in hearing stories of direct discrimination, I think
we have heard some tonight, but also I would urge you to go back to the test -- to the
hours of taped testimony that are on YouTube from the statehouse when this was heard
at the state level and I know that there was folks from Meridian in there, because I have
reviewed that testimony myself. You know, it's not easy for me to stand here and tell
you all this tonight, because of -- if this measure doesn't pass and the information that I
have shared with you here tonight gets out and gets into the hands of somebody who
takes an issue with it, I could be fired tomorrow; right? And that would be bad for my
family, but I also know that there is community members here in Meridian for whom that
sort of action would actually be devastating and I know that those people don't feel safe
speaking out and I know that if I were in that position and I think that if any of you were
in that position you also wouldn't choose to be here taking this stance and so I ask that
you remember those community members and I also just want to reiterate what we
have heard. This isn't about special protections; right? Everybody in this room has a
sexual orientation, everybody in this room has a gender identity, and not one of us
should be discriminated against in our employment on the basis of that. Thank you so
much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Robert Horton signed up against, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Horton: Good evening, Tammy and Council Members. My name is Robert Horton. I
live at 607 East Idaho Avenue here in Meridian. I note that you haven't taken my advice
from the last time I spoke at this podium and listened for you folks and that is to invest in
a respectable sound system. But I hope you will take my advice and recommendation
tonight. For the following reasons I urge you to reject the adoption of this ordinance. I,
too, feel that one should be at liberty to follow his or her own conscience. So, that you
do not think that I'm prejudiced or such, I wish to say that I accept people based upon
how they treat me and others, not on their age, race, national origin, color, religion,
disability, sex, sexual identity or affinity. Over the years I have had several rental homes
and my tenants have included married couples, multiple members of the same sex
same at the time, Cuban refugees, gays, and I am currently renting to Hispanics. One
of my best friends is Japanese. A g ood friend is gay. My barber is Vietnamese. My
audiest is an Indian. My wife is a Filipina and we recently had a young black lady,
whom I have a partnership investment with, over to our home for dinner and to watch
movies. Now, I'm not discriminatory. I understand that advocates for the ordinance
have urged the community members to support its adoption under a slogan called
Meridian Show Up For Equality, but my observations and the experience that I have had
-- some who asked for a ban on discrimination, whatever it's based on, abuse the
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concept of equality and instead expect special consideration and that can cause much
trouble where it is not deserved. For example, just this past week I attended a meeting
in that room over there, a large audience listened to a national leader advocating
support for local police. He described several instances of how body cameras have
completely disproven complaints of abuse and maltreatment lodged from those given
favorable -- favorable treatment by discrimination bands. Another example. How much
money did the bakery owners have to spend in the process of defending themselves
during the lawsuit when they declined to bake a wedding cake for the gay couple?
When I was younger there were signs and various established -- in various
establishment all over Meridian stating that they reserve the right to refuse service to
anyone. Another common saying was when in Rome do as the Romans do. I don't
think that means that someone should move to an area and, then, suggest to his or her
neighbors how to live, believe, and to adjust to the culture where they moved from.
De Weerd: Thank you, Robert.
Horton: Okay. I wasn't sure that was it.
De Weerd: That was it.
Horton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Cody Hafer signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Hafer: Good evening. Thank you. So, I'm Cody Hafer and I live in Boise, but I work
here in Meridian just down the road on Franklin near Eagle Road. I have a lot of things
that I want to say. I think one of the first things I want to say just out loud in the space is
to my fellow LGBT members, like I think it's courageous to come out in spaces like this
and I celebrate and honor you for doing that. I'm gay. I'm coming out right now as well.
I don't think your identities are a choice and I think you are vibrant members of the
community and I think the weight of some of the things that we have heard tonight is
real and that kind of goes in alignment with what this is about, feeling that weight of
discrimination or feeling less then impacts people's ability to really connect with the
community and feel safe and be productive, as some folks talked about it in
employment at jobs and so I just wanted to say something that was kind of in a different
vein than some of the things that we have heard. I work with young people here in
Meridian, in particular at Rocky Mountain High School and Renaissance High School,
and regularly I have young people come out as gay and transgender and within the
community and talk about their experiences in communities where ordinances like this
aren't passed and feeling safe -- unsafe, feeling less than, having suicidal thoughts and
I know that by passing this ordinance we are not going to -- that it doesn't indirectly
change that, but I think it sends a message and a precedence to our community about
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the kind of culture we want to shape and have in our community. I think that's kind of
the role of governing bodies to pass ordinances or laws that shape our culture and our
community culture, which, then, influences our school cultures and so I know folks have
talked about thinking about the impact on small business owners and I just want to ask
you to think about the impacts on young people that are taking their lives, because they
don't feel safe, they don't feel celebrated they don't feel equal. I just want to put that
question out there, because I think that's a question you're grappling with as well, as
long as the questions -- as well as the questions business owners have posed to you
and just I want to highlight that it's an infraction and part of getting that in fraction is
evidence that a business has enacted discrimination. So, I just wanted to highlight that,
too. And thank you for your time and your thoughtful consideration and I really urge you
to pass this ordinance here in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you, Cody.
Coles: Gordon Slyter signed up against, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening, Gordon.
Slyter: Good evening. Gordon Slyter. 2162 East Katelyn Drive in the great City of
Meridian, Idaho. I want to commend Council for what I am picking up -- I'm kind of new
to this particular conversation in our community -- for what I perceived to be a good job
that you have done trying to craft an ordinance that would take into account various
perspectives. I also want to commend the people who are here in attendance and I
found there is much that I agree with, not only for those who have spoken against the
ordinance, as I am against it, but also for those who have spoken in favor of it. I agree
with much of what they have said. My concerns would be it -- well, let me -- let me read
this. That it is my belief that all people, homeless, homeowners, Muslims, Christians,
atheist, Republicans, Democrats -- if I have left anyone else out forgive me, but certainly
including LGBTQ people should be treated with civility, grace, and human respect and I
believe that. In fact, I would even go further than that, that my beliefs teach me that
beyond that I should show them agape love and shine Christ's love towards them and I
would be willing to stand on my record to show that I have done that over my life and in
my ministry. I do serve a church here in Meridian. However, I do believe that no law,
national, state or local, should give them special protection over and above others
citizens. I do not believe that -- that hope of mine will be fulfilled, because we can see
what's happening in our nation. Here is my concern, that no law aimed at protecting
one group of people, whether the LGBTQ or any other group, should be allowed to
infringe upon its citizens or a group of citizens or a privately owned business
organization operated by citizens should infringe on their right to the freedom of religion,
freedom of expression of that religion, and the application of those sincerely held
religious beliefs in their private or public life. There is no religion worth its salt that
doesn't inform and impact a person's public life. So, my -- my -- I have been trying to --
because I know -- I got involved in this issue back in the '80s in a city where I serve as a
pastor down in Southern California and I know that if we are at this state probably
nothing that's been said tonight so far has changed anyone's mind, either there or here.
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I understand that. My -- but I would beseech you as that you would make sure that in
protecting equal rights for all, which I fully support, that we do not wittingly or unwittingly
provide an opportunity for the harassment, the persecution, and the denial of rights --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Slyter: -- for those who are living out their faith. That's my biggest concern.
Coles: Zoe Olson signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Olson: Good evening. Can you hear me?
De Weerd: Yes.
Olson: My name is Zoe Ann Olson. I'm the Executive Director of the Intermountain Fair
Housing Council. We are located at 4696 West Overland Road, Suite 140, Boise,
Idaho. 83705. We are a nonprofit organization that serves the whole state of Idaho,
including Meridian. Our mission is to eradicate discrimination and segregation in the
state of Idaho. We protect people from discrimination and housing without regard --
from discrimination in housing without regard to race, color, sex, religion, national origin,
familial status, gender identity, sexual orientation, source of income or disability. I
encourage you to support this ordinance. The increasing hostility toward the LGBTQIA
community requires our immediate attention, especially regarding discrimination and
housing, provision of employment, public accommodation and community engagement.
The Intermountain Fair Housing Council has successfully addressed this discrimination
right here in the City of Meridian. We have had people come forward who said that they
were discriminated against in their parking lot, when housing providers and tenants had
-- had failed to address comments made by property managers and property managers'
tenants where they were singling them out because of their transgender -- transgender
from male to female or because of their sexual orientation. We have addressed this in
real estate transactions where realtors treated people differently because of they were
same sex couples. We have addressed this successfully in other ways, but there are
no explicit protections under the City of Meridian, the state or the federal Fair Housing
Act to protect us from discrimination against -- based on sexual orientation and gender
identity. When a dear friend and children come to you with this kind of -- of treatment
and the Fair Housing Act can't protect them or the state law can't protect them or
ordinance can protect them, they are afraid and we need this and you're taking a step
like everyone has said here today toward that. We are one of a few -- three cities left of
community entitlement cities that don't have protections based on sexual orientation and
gender identity in housing and employment and public accommodations. Even the
National Real Estate Association supports protections for people based on LGBTQIA.
From hate crimes against Nampa native Steven Wilson, to the Illinois case, of the
Smiths in Colorado and Wessels in Illinois, we must show them the effectiveness of
having such protections for people based on LGBTQIA. There was a recent study done
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by the Williams Institute that showed 78 percent of respondents of transgender people
today have faced harassment and mistreatment and work. Forty-seven percent have
reported being discriminated against in hiring and promotion. Seventy-five percent of
Idahoans are not covered by local ordinances and have faced discrimination at work
and housing and of those 35,000 adults and numerous children, double that number,
face discrimination in housing.
De Weerd: Thank you, Zoe.
Olson: Thank you so much.
Coles: Saga Christian signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
Christian: Can you hear me okay?
De Weerd: Yeah .
Christian: Cool. My name is Saga Christian and I -- permanent address is 2225 East
Star Lane in Meridian, Idaho. I am an infant and toddler teacher and I just got off work,
so I'm covered in baby goop and it's kind of gross. I don't do a lot of public speaking,
but I want to say first that what I have to say is not reflective of the LGBT community
and I'm here for me and anything I say, please, interpret it about me. I worked really
hard to become an infant and toddler teacher and you might think that's crazy, because
I make $9.75 an hour. I have a master's degree from the best university in the country
for education, Pacific Oaks, and that's where Head Start started. I have tried to make it
in this field for eight years and since coming out have been discriminated against in
conferences where I have shown up for infant health conferences and tried to attend
and I have been denied -- denied entry into the conference here in a Meridian building.
I have shown up at other conferences with my Idaho Education Association and sat
down at tables and all of my colleagues have gotten up from the table and left the room.
I have shown up for job interviews at Meridian childcare centers that are right down the
street and I have had people slide my resume directly in front of me into the garbage
bin. I have shown up for other child care centers for jobs and I have had people look at
me when I show up at the door and deny me entry into my interview. I have had
parents spit on me. I have been spit on walking down the street in Meridian. I have had
parents and colleagues give me death threats. I have had my car vandalized and
strewn with garbage and hate speech thrown in my car. This is really hard to do. I
should add that I am the only -- that I know of I am the only openly transgender teacher
in the state of Idaho and I choose to be out, because I think it's important and I think it's
-- you know, my dream job all growing up has been just to teach kids and work with kids
and it doesn't make sense to me that a cisgender white Christian woman can go and do
this job with no experience and no education and she can show up and get a job and I
can have a master's degree with over ten years of experience and I can show up and be
treated like I'm treated. You know, it's not a glamorous position. It's not something most
people would want to do and this isn't a choice. I don't choose to be discriminated
against. I don't choose to live in seven different places in the last two years and have
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14 different jobs in the last two years.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Madelynn Taylor signed up in favor, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Taylor: Mayor and Council Members, it's been a while since I have been here, but this
ground is where the old firehouse used to stand. I spent ten years in this firehouse was
rescue one. Some of the greatest years of my life. I was on my feet then. But I
presently live at 97 North 29th Street in Nampa, because I have to live with my sister. I
can't live alone any longer. I want you to pass this ordinance simply for the kids,
because those kids will see that you do it and it will give them hope that they have got
somebody in their corner. That's about it. Let's keep those kids from doing anymore
suicides.
De Weerd: Thank you, Madelynn.
Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that concludes those that indicated they
would like to testify. I will now go through the rest of the list and read off into the record
the names of those that signed up with their position for or against.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: If I do read your name and you change your mind, you would like to testify,
please, indicate, make it -- make it known by raising your hand and you, obviously, are
welcome to come up. Kelly Ann Reilly signed up against. Jim Bridgeman signed up
against. Trina Miller against. Said Mujagic against. Trent Kennison against. Jill
Butterworth against. Samuel Butterworth against.
De Weerd: Good evening.
S.Butterworth: Mayor and the Council, I thank you for the opportunity to come up here
and speak, even though I did not check the right box.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
S.Butterworth: My name is Samuel Butterworth. I live at 478 East Lake Creek Street.
My dad actually spoke earlier.
De Weerd: Thank you, Samuel.
S.Butterworth: I would very much ask that all of you be very considerate about my
future and about everybody else's future, because when you pass this you will be taking
away free rights. You will be taking away my speech rights. You will be taking away my
kids' speech rights and I don't want that and I very much would like to see my kids be
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able to say what they want to say. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Samuel.
Coles: Josiah Butterworth against. Daniel Butterworth against. Greg Hart against.
Victoria Kennison against. Jodi Miller against. Alicia Stephens against. Steven Heath
against. Melissa White against. Michael Ebeling against. Brent Heinrich against. Jon
Vanderpool against. Sarah Vanderpool against. Peter Carrera against. Benjamin
Butterworth against.
De Weerd: Good evening.
B.Butterworth: Thank you, Mayor Tammy and Council Members. My name is Benjamin
Butterworth. I reside at 3128 South Gunnell Avenue and I would actually like to ask one
question of Joe Borton, please. My concern, sir, is you said that the -- it would be done
based on a fair situation when there is an evidence presented against a business
member or somebody who is accused of discrimination. My question for you and the
Council Members is who decides what is that fair and equal value? Do we allow for
time to -- for that answer or how does that work?
De Weerd: If you can just finish your -- your statement and, then, we will ask Mr.
Borton.
B.Butterworth: Well -- so, I ask that question. And, then, my statement is may I, please,
just remind you -- and, first of all, I want to thank you for being public servants. I don't
envy your job in having to hear everybody's testimony and, then, having to deal with
everybody's upset response to what you decide. That's not a fun job. But I thank you
for being public servants. I really do appreciate it. But my one request on top of that is
that you would remember that you are representatives of a government that is for the
people, of the people, by the people.
De Weerd: Thank you. We remember that all the time. Mr. Borton, do you want to
comment on the enforcement and as included in their written ordinance.
Borton: Certainly. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thanks for the question. On a broad
scale, broader than this, instances of discriminatory conduct are routinely investigated
by some member of a government agency, whether it's a claim of discrimination of
racial discrimination or age or gender or religion or disability, those are handled and
processed, the intent to be in an objective manner, ascertain the facts, hear both sides.
So, what we have done in this ordinance is we have structured it in that same exact
manner for two particular reasons. One, that's the direction that most recent case law
provides and -- and to ensure that it's not arbitrarily imposed or arbitrarily reviewed, that
we have tried to memorialize that obligation, we have, in fact, memorialize that
obligation upon our government entity in doing that review process. Not every
ordinance does that. We thought it was important to include that. The claims process
that we have within our ordinance not only dictates that it's neutral, fair, and impartial,
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consistent with case law, but, then, it provides several levels of processing to try and
ensure that is done on a case-by-case basis and it's very fact specific. The section first
speaks to the receipt of a complaint within a particular timeframe, is reviewed by a civil
attorney here at the city, who makes that review and outreach to the complaining party
based upon the written facts that are presented and to the person who is alleged to
have violated their particular rights under the ordinance. That outreach happens to see
if there is some discussion that could occur or some mediation. Parties are willing --
that are willing to participate can do so. No one's required to do so. We found that in
other ordinances and other jurisdictions to be a -- rather than prejudging anything, but
an opportunity to provide perhaps additional fact gathering and kind of a fair
assessment, rather than any rush to judgment that a particular complaint is
automatically valid and found -- founded and should be prosecuted. In fact, the receipt
of a complaint doesn't even empower a law enforcement to write a citation at that time.
It has to run through this process. Other communities have -- have done this informally.
The city of Boise runs this same process. Their prosecutors prosecute our cases as
well. The city of Boise has had I believe five complaints in six years since they have
enacted their ordinance, but their process is the same, to try and resolve either
miscommunications or misunderstandings. If there is no -- no resolution through that, a
neutral objective review, it, then, is routed to a prosecutor to make a review and
assessment to determine whether or not charged will be flied at all. There may not be
any charges. So, that's kind of a longer answer, but it's the -- it's the structure that tries
to preserve the very objective review and fair consideration to claims of discrimination in
this case or in this ordinance and it's the same obligation that every government entity,
city, state or nation has to impose upon itself in lawfully applying whether it's the Civil
Rights Act of 1964 in reviewing claims of discriminatory conduct for those other classes
of our society which we felt important to protect, so --
B.Butterworth: So -- so, can I ask -- so, you're saying that when the complaint comes
against it's filed and, then, it goes to a civil -- potentially -- may or may not go to a civil
attorney for the City of Meridian that -- I'm just trying to make sure I'm understanding the
process here correctly.
Borton: Yeah . Madam Mayor -- in brief, I don't want to take up -- so, the claims process
in the ordinance --
B.Butterworth: Yeah.
Borton: -- it spells it out and, again, the reason that it is spelled out -- it's not a may or
may not, there is a strict chain of events that must occur.
B.Butterworth: Okay.
Borton: And the first event if a complaint is received within 180 days of the alleged
conduct, that it is received by the city civil attorney for a review and outreach and that
same process Boise uses. We have actually put it in the ordinance to guarantee that
and make sure that occurs and it's described in paragraph two of 6-3-13D, memorializes
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that right. Again, what we are trying to do is ensure we capture that fair, objective
review. So , the civil attorney does it as stated in the ordinance. If it were to progress
past that, then, it can be routed, if it's going to proceed, to a civil prosecutor who, then,
makes their screening analysis like they would in any other ordinance.
B.Butterworth: So, my concern with this if, I -- because I saw I still have like one minute
left, my concern with this, then, is one person, the civil attorney, is, then, having the right
to decide whether me or my family member, based on an allegation and how they may
have woken up that morning and whether they had their cup of coffee or not, decides
whether or not the allegation against me is right or wrong and I would hope that we
have the right people that would do that fairly, but we are all human, we all have our bad
days and I don't want to see that happen and so my challenge to the Council, if I would
in that sense of being of the people, by the people, for the people, is that I would ask
that you would remember that we are the people and there is an election coming up.
Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor? Let me -- let me -- I will respond to that. The election has
nothing to do with it. But the process I have just described is one that applies to you
should you be charged with racial discrimination or age discrimination and there will be
an individual, a government agent of some -- in some office, who will review and do that
same -- they are doing their job -- that same lawful review of the facts, obtaining
information on both sides before making an assessment. So, that's -- you might
disagree with it, but at least appreciate what we have tried to do is capture the same
objective structure to it --
B.Butterworth: Right.
Borton: So --
B.Butterworth: And I do appreciate that you have tried to be fair and I have heard that
echo time and time again and, I'm sorry, I did not mean that to come across as like a
boom in your face you're out, but, honestly, by the people, you know, we have the
opportunity to vote and that's -- that's all I'm saying. I'm not -- I'm sorry, I did not mean
that to come across in like hey -- but, really, in all honesty we have the power to vote
and we are -- please listen to the voices of the people. Thank you.
Borton: Fair enough.
Coles: Rachael Butterworth signed up against. Timothy Kennison signed up against.
Kelsey Scranton against. Emily Andrews against. Mariya against. Michaela Bocci
against. David Benenatre against. Anna Bryan against. Kaitlyn Fender against.
Malaree Mills against. Alex against. Mary Bowers against.
De Weerd: Mary. Good evening.
Bowers: Good evening. I had no intention of testifying tonight, but I am compelled. My
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name is Mary Bowers. I live at 1263 North Cresmont here in Meridian and no one has
said anything that I want to say. So, here I am. First of all, I also want to thank you for
your service. I absolutely would have abhor sitting in your seats. I'm glad you're there
and I'm not. But I hope that because we are invited as the public to give our opinion
that you are still open minded to hear what we have to say, because you're our
neighbors and we shop with you and we fellowship with you and we work with you and
you're a part of our community and we are a part of yours. So, what I want to say is
this, that intrinsic to embracing the decision to live an LGTBQ lifestyle is the desire to be
validated in that belief and to even demand to be accepted in that belief, but we cannot
legislate acceptance. Acceptance has to come from within us who we are as people
and I hope that as people in Meridian that we have love for each other, that we develop
a strong community because we care about the place that we live. We came to
Meridian -- I came to Meridian because the Lord brought me here, but that's beside the
point, but I like what I found here and I don't want it to change. As human beings we
are absolutely emotionally moved by the chaos that people encounter in embracing the
decision to live out what they feel is the natural course in their being, but we cannot
legislate based on emotion or even fear. We have to legislate on the basis of wisdom
and that's what I pray for all of you. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Tamara Molfino sign up against. Nikki Grover against. Jessie Grover against.
Marty against. Karie Carrera against. Matt Saunders against. Brian Taylor against.
Kasi Taylor against. Kathryn Hesse against. Russ Mills against. Michaela Kuskie
against. DD Bryan against. Charissa Miller against. Daniel Linnan against. Stephanie
Lasater in favor. Amber White against. Kaylee Stanwood against. Tosha Troxel
against. Laura Bryan against. James Holt against. Crystal Bliss against. Jessica
Peters in favor. Mikayla Harding against. Shannon Pherigo against. Maryssa Pherigo
against. Jonathan Bryan against.
J.Bryan: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
J.Bryan: It's good to see you, Mayor Tammy. I just want to quickly say I think all of us --
hopefully all of us --
De Weerd: Jonny, do you want to state your name and --
J.Bryan: Oh. 431 West Carlton Avenue. My name is Johnny Bryan. Thank you. But I
do understand the -- the sympathy of not wanting to say that. My house has been
targeted and -- it's because of my beliefs also. So, understand the vulnerability of that.
I think all of us don't want discrimination. All of us want love and acceptance. All of us
believe that that is the way that we are all supposed to live and I think it's been said a
whole lot tonight that there is this desire to change the mentality of our citizens to be
more loving and more accepting and this -- this anti-bullying sentiment, which I am
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totally for and I think that that is very very wrong and as a fashion forward and socially
forward person I was often considered gay. I'm not and I fell in love with a wonderful
woman who I'm married. But I have also been persecuted and made fun of and
targeted at Meridian High School where I went and so I kind of see both sides of the
coin, but I think it was said we don't see explicit protection for those in favor of this bill,
you know, the gays and the vibe -- I don't even know all the letters, so I apologize.
Don't take that personally. But -- but at the same time I don't know if we see explicit
protection for those who are in opposition to it. We have mentioned suicides and how
that can be so sad. I'm sure many of you were aware of the pastor in San Francisco
two weeks ago that committed suicide. There is a lot of people of faith that commit
suicide because they feel trapped that they can't live out their beliefs because of the
growing popularity and the growing legislation that seems to withdraw rights from
people. In the same way that you wouldn't want to force a black photographer to
photographic KKK ceremony, you wouldn't want to force anybody that has a personal
violation to accommodate a lifestyle or a system of beliefs that violates them, I don't
think it's up to government really to force those beliefs on anybody and while I don't
think that anyone should be denied basic services, we are not going to force Chick-fil-A
to serve beef just because they think they should. There is other places that they can --
that you can go for beef. There is other churches that you can go to if you want to get
married. There is other places that you can have those needs met and while I do think
that -- that it's important that all of those services are provided and that no one is denied
or persecuted, I do not see necessarily special or explicit protection for both sides of the
aisle on this issue. It seems that it focuses on protecting one and neglects the
conversation on what happens if you don't agree with that mindset for the other side of
the aisle and while there is much publication and visual support of the persecution and
the hardship and the bullying of bi and gay and trans, there is just as much for those of
Judeo Christian ethics, it just doesn't get the same kind of air time. So, I just urge you
as our leaders, who I highly respect and honor, to consider both sides of the argument
and to know that not everything that has been said by everyone represents the whole of
everyone here and so I -- I just want to say there -- I, as a Christian love and I'm
fascinated by all humans in their -- in their -- the way that they are, the way that they
were designed, the way that they were created and their choices and I think that I value
--
De Weerd: Thank you, Jonathan.
J.Bryan: -- what you do to protect us all.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Phil Zedwick signed up against. Christina Wilcox against. Barry Peyers
against. Alex Cook against. Dennis Mills against. Shaye Campbell against. Mark
Duenas against. Debra Zedwick against. Del Mills against. Christopher White against.
Travis Scranton against. Heidi Grigg against. Chelle Mills against. Bryce Grigg
against. Shaishanna Neland against. Ostyn Mills against.
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A.Mills: Austin Mills. 1125 West State Street, Meridian, Idaho. I would like to say thank
you tonight for this opportunity to come before you and to express my beliefs and my
opinions on this subject. I have found even as a young person, having just graduated
high school a few years ago when still uncertain of what I want my future to be, I do
understand that having taken basic American history, the idea that our forefathers
fought for and took and established for this country that of ideals and not have a set
people group and a place and a land for opportunities for many individuals no matter
where they are coming from, no matter what their background maybe, there is a chance
for everybody here, but I do not believe that this ordinance being put in place will -- will
allow for my future to continue to grow. In fact, I find reason to believe that it could
cause it to be stifled in some regard as far as my personal religious views and even
upon having seen just what could be about in other nations as far as this law has been
enacted, I would say even for myself that I have had friends that have come out and
they are great people and they still are and I have had nothing wrong or anything other
than just open debate and discussion about what we believe and yet we have been able
to walk away and that is because we live in a country that allows for this and I do
believe still that if you were to enact this ordinance that we would be hindering
opportunities that is for speech to be discussed and I'm not saying that I agree with --
with people being discriminated against and I'm not saying that I am in support -- in fact,
I have no animosity for people that choose this lifestyle. They are -- they are Americans
nonetheless and I respect that, but I do in my own life see this ordinance as being
something that could, in fact, hinder what it is that I would potentially pursue as my
future, so I would say thank you again for having me and having this opportunity for us
to come out and to discuss our -- our beliefs tonight. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ostyn.
Coles: Res Peters signed up against. Michael Schell signed up against. Jake Scholl
against. Katherine Schell against. Wendy White against. Wendy Myers against.
Kristie Duffel against. Justin Bocci against. Samuel Neland against. JoAnne Richter
against. Judy Maynard against. Travis Carleton against. Mark Bridgeman against.
Doris Williston against. Natalie Welsh against. Shauna Guinn against. Shane Guinn
against. Justin White against. Tracy Eb eling against. Amy Dueas against. Joseph
Kibbe in favor.
De Weerd: Okay.
Kibbe: Good evening. My name is Joseph Kibbe and I reside in Nampa, Idaho, and
kind of share a concern about sharing my direct address, but I'm thankful for this
opportunity this evening to address the Council and I was not planning on speaking, but
I'm very angry and disheartened in listening to some of the concern. I live very close
and Nampa is where we had a hate crime that could not have been classified as a hate
crime with the murder of Professor Stephen Nelson over at Boise State and while that
was a very gruesome crime, I don't think that that's been a lot of the safety concerns
that have been addressed this evening. He died in one of the most vile and horrible
ways that you could imagine what I don't think has been addressed -- I'm not worried
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about having a choice to get a cake or a hamburger or anything like that, what I'm
worried about is the response for -- and safety of individuals in the community that may
not have competency training of first responders or a choice in seeking medical
condition -- or, excuse me, medical treatment for those that have been harmed in the
community. That -- that I think is at the heart of this issue and that I think you're trying
to address and I think you have been very thoughtful and very considerate in your
crafting with the bill. I work very closely with the city of Boise with the Boise pride
festival and how to make community service to welcome and embrace many different
individuals within the community and work very closely with the city council over those
years and I'm very positive about the steps that you have taken, but I just don't think
that that's been addressed. I live in a city where if I were just to get beaten down for no
reason in the street, which I have been a victim of hate crime in the late 1990s before
Boise had a mechanism for reporting that, it's very painful and that's what I really think
that we all need to remember at the heart of this is -- issue is that safety, diversity and
values should be honored and preserved for all of us that live in Idaho. I listened to the
arguments this evening, I find a lot of them invalid. I don't remember the last time I went
into the bathroom and stripped my clothes off and took a shower. I used the restroom
right across the hall this evening and I just went to the bathroom. That's -- that's all I do.
Those arguments -- to me those don't matter. What matters is if somebody is hurt, how
are your first responders in Meridian going to respond? Are they going to respond with
compassion? Are they going to respond with care? Are they going to treat those
individuals with respect? That's what I think is at the matter of the heart and I believe
that that's what the intent is for this Council is to ensure that all citizens of Meridian
should feel safe in their community and should feel welcome and I think it's angry, it's --
it's very -- very angry that this has been politicized. Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, Joseph, I can assure you that when our police and fire respond we
respond compassionately regardless of who we are responding to. Everyone's treated
respectfully.
Kibbe: And I'm glad to hear that and I -- I don't believe that exists in my city and that's
hopeful something that I will be able to address soon, but I would like to know that that
is in place and that's very comforting to hear that your first responders are responding
with compassion and care.
De Weerd: And if they don't you know the office to call.
Kibbe: I -- I do and I'm sure that somebody would. But, again, thank you and I believe
that that is -- that the intent of the ordinance is to address safety for citizens, not to
choose a hamburger place or a cake baker.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Kibbe: I stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you for your testimony.
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Kibbe: Thank you.
Coles: Shannon Hansen signed up in favor. Catherine Thomson signed up against.
Jeanette Sarazin against. Paul Lancaster against. Ryan Lancaster against. Erin
Alexander in favor. Stephen Wells against. Jan Sylvester in favor. Richard Dees
against. Adam Stanwood against. Kristina Crozier in favor. Marcia Strickland against.
Erica Stoesser in favor. Zakary Welch against. Brent Knutson in favor. Gisela Woogon
in favor. Todd Ebeling against. Janelle Peters against. Linele Patrick against. Bradley
Peters against. Russell Angel against. Gabriele Shank against. Aric Shank against.
Ruth Blackmer against. Kelli Russell against. Deborah Lynd against. Steven Martin in
favor. Robert Spencer in favor.
Spencer: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Spencer: Robert Spencer and I didn't sign -- I didn't sign up because I live in Eagle.
De Weerd: That's all right. We won't judge you.
Spencer: Thank you. I appreciate that. I have been an Episcopal priest for 46 years
and in that time the Episcopal Church has had to grip -- come to grips with welcoming
black people into the church freely, allowing women to have place in the church for
ordination, as well as leadership. Has had to deal with all kinds of issues around rights
of worship and that kind of thing. We also have had to deal with gaining knowledge and
accepting of LGBTQ folks and it has been a long, tiring journey and now culture is going
through a lot of the same and has been going through for years -- for 46 years at least
that I'm aware of. I say that because I think it's important that we understand that life
does not stand still, life is going to continue to grow and to change and to be different
from time to time. It's going to involve people who are different than we are. It's going
to be involving people who believe differently than we believe. It's going to be involving
people of different colors and different backgrounds and different nations. It's changing.
It's always changing. Scripture. I know that this would be an argument that I can have
with some of my brethren in other churches, but scripture is a living book that has to
speak to all of us in the time in which we live, not to tell us to live back there, but to help
us to live in the way that the world is living today. That doesn't mean we don't try to
change it for the good always and I happen to think that what you are doing is trying to
change something for the good. So, it's a wonderful thing to be able to speak out. Now,
the Episcopal Church -- the Constitution of the Episcopal Church is a mirror of the
national constitution, because it was written by some of the same people back in those
days. So, it's not just separating church and state, it's separating so that we can have
the church, whatever church we belong to, whatever religion we come from, to be there
for us, but it's also important for the state to be there for us and to be there to help us
through the times, as well as those religious leaders --
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De Weerd: Thank you, Robert.
Spencer: -- to be there, too. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Tyler Miller signed up in favor. John Gannon in favor. Rebecca Moon in favor.
Lora Volkert in favor. Todd Ellis against. Sunny Smart in favor.
De Weerd: I love your name.
Smart: Thanks. I didn't choose either of them. Okay. So, my name is Sonny Smart. I
live at 2511 West Quintail Drive in Meridian. I have lived in Meridian for 13 years. My
husband grew up here and, then, we came back when our oldest child was five years
old. He started kindergarten here and he just graduated from Rocky this last year. We
have four teenagers. We love it here in Meridian. And I can't tell you how thrilled and
proud I am to be standing here that this -- this ordinance is even before us tonight. I'm
so proud of our city that we are here doing this and discussing this. It's so forward
thinking, no matter what happens, that it's even occurred to us to do this. Just thank
you for this. So, like I said, I have four teenagers and as far as I know right now all of
them are straight. I don't have family members that are gay. I have dear friends that
are. So, I don't come here because my kids are gay or anything like that. But I come
here because I love our city and I love -- I love everything about it. I didn't love it when I
moved here 13 years ago, but I love it now and I love our community and my heart is
here and because I have four teenagers this is what I want to tell you is I have watched
them grow and I have watched their friends grow and my heart is with these kids and
these kids matter and because I have worked with kids in my church -- church
community and in other things, I know how kids operate. I worked with troubled teens
before I was married. For five straight years I worked with troubled teens and I -- I know
how their brains work and they keep secrets and they keep shame and it drives them to
dark places and I know that they watch us. They watch what we do and this is how they
know whether we are safe or we are not and our children are watching us right now.
There are little children watching us right now who are growing into teenagers. They
are looking to see what we will do and if we are safe for them. They are hearing the
words we speak. They are hearing how we talk about members of our community and it
matters. We see the suicide rates. We know that transgender individuals have such
high rates of suicide or attempted suicide. It matters how we speak of these things. It
matters how we vote on these things. I know that people are afraid of their religious
rights. I grew up Mormon. I raised my four kids in the Mormon church. I understand
this. I understand it. I really do. I understand what it is to wrestle with these things. As
business owners my husband and I -- I tell you we are not afraid of this. We are not
afraid that we will be forced to hire certain people or provided services --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Smart: Oh. Darn it.
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Cavener: Keep going.
Smart: I want to. I want to keep going, but thank you for hearing me.
De Weerd: Thank you. It's a good thing he's not running the meeting it would be
midnight; right.
Coles: Next was Jonathan Henry, signed up against. Emily Jackson-Edney in favor.
Jackson-Edney: Madam Mayor, Council, appreciate the opportunity to stand before you
and an offer testimony in favor of your ordinance.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Jackson-Edney: Emily Jackson-Edney. I live in Garden City, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jackson-Edney: I'm not a resident of this city. However, I'm a visitor to your city and I
enjoy the public accommodations that you offer and I have never been discriminated in
this city, but when I do access your public accommodation that's always in the back of
my mind. I provided you written testimony, letter form, a few weeks ago, so I won't go
into that, because I think that's self explanatory, but I wanted to provide a human face to
who I am, to humanize myself. I am an unapologetic woman of transsexual experience
and I only use that term in this type of a setting, so that you understand my history. I
identify as a woman. However, I did not transition to be a real woman, because that is a
fairly sexist and a transphobic concept. I transition to be a woman. My kind of woman.
The kind of woman that I want to be. A whole person that will challenge stereotypes as
much as caters to them. I -- I fathered two children. I was in a -- and I have
grandchildren. Four grandchildren, and one great grandson. I am a -- a past member
of the Idaho National Guard for six years. I retired with -- honorably with the rank of
sergeant. I worked for a local highway district as a civil engineering design or
construction manager for 37 years. Many of the streets in your city I probably
administer contracts for those. I was raised in a very fundamentalist Christian church. I
was a deacon in that church. And, unfortunately, because of my identity I would not be
welcome through the side door, let alone the back door of that church today. However, I
have not lost my spirituality and I still have great faith. I want to thank you from the
bottom of my heart for -- for taking the courage to bring this forward to your community
to protect people like me and for all my siblings. A little bit more about me. I'm a board
-- on the board of directors of Pride Foundation. That's a community philanthropic
organization that provides scholarships for LGBT youth and there is some in your
community that we have provided, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Jackson-Edney: Any questions? Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Emily.
Coles: Richard Henry signed up against. Heather Henry against. Andrea Sater
against. Jonathan Sater against. Elizabeth Sater against. Eric Sater against. Ron
Sater against. Clint Henry against. Sarah Sater against. Heather Witt in favor. Diane
Sater against. Jeff Sater against. Chris Sater against. Joan Kaufman in favor.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Kaufman: I'm Joan Kaufman. I reside in Boise, but I come over to Meridian about three
times a week to your cute little tea shop here.
De Weerd: Well, thank you for that.
Kaufman: It's Potters Tea House. It's a great place. I just wanted to clarify something.
It was alluded to that this was brought up at the legislature and it didn't -- wasn't really
deemed that important. There was no need for it and it didn't pass. It didn't get out of
committee or whatever. I sat through three days of those hearings. The first two days
they were asked to hold -- you know -- well, the people from out of town who had
members on the committee, they were speaking at least two hours some of them and,
then, the second day they said could you -- they didn't time it like you guys did, they just
said could you, please, keep your comments to 30 minutes today, because there is a lot
of people still to come and, again, that day was mostly against it and so the third day
they announced that, well, we have pretty much heard everything you people have to
say, but those remaining, of which there were a ton of us, all for -- well, 95 percent for --
we were given three minutes to speak and it was a token hearing to placate years of
people -- and when I first started -- I mean I just -- my daughter came out to me just a
few years ago and I'm now a proud mother and an activist, but, you know, it was just a
token hearing to placate the news that have been saying, you know, they have been
trying to get this brought before the legislature for years. So, the committee was like
two -thirds one party, one-third the other party, and the vote was exactly partisan lines.
So, when you say that -- I mean it was decided that it was just a placating thing for us.
So, I just wanted to clear that up when you were told that, you know, well, this has
already been brought up before the legislature and nothing happened. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Joan.
Coles: Judy Cross signed up in favor. Jason Van Huene -- we have got a hand.
De Weerd: Come on -- yeah, you need to stand up. I saw you. Thank you for sticking
here with us. If you will state your name and address.
Cross: My name is Judy Cross. I actually live in Boise, but I represent members of
your community as the president of the Board of Directors for the Interfaith Alliance of
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Idaho. I am also a member of the Interfaith Equality Coalition, which is a number of
faith groups that are progressive and this is a core issue for them and I am on the board
of directors, excuse me, for the Community Center in Boise, which covers a wide range
of care for the LGBT community and we have a youth group that meets every Sunday
afternoon. I'm also a member of Metropolitan Community Church, which is very -- very
open and affirming and was actually founded by a gay minister. My concern -- and, first
of all, I really, really, really appreciate what you're doing. I appreciate the courage that it
takes. I appreciate all of the -- the -- the effort that has gone into this and the thinking
and the -- and working through what is so important and the details of what you have
done. It is so important to not only the gay community and the transgender community,
but it's important to this whole community for people to feel safe. We have a youth
group that is -- has been increasing and increasing on an exponential basis of kids who
come from Meridian and Nampa and Boise and Garden City and Eagle and as far away
as Jerome, because they don't have people that are -- are supportive and caring for
them and they come because they feel like they have been discriminated against or
they fear discrimination. They have been bullied. There are a number who have
contemplated suicide and because they have someplace safe to come to, they have
been able to move out of that. It is just such a critical need to have that image of safety
and care and it's just -- I am so strongly in favor of this ordinance I can't say. It's just so
important. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Jason Von Huene signed up in favor.
De Weerd: He's been waiting a long time. You waved your hand the first time you said
I will start reading.
Von Huene: So, yeah, I am Jason A. Von Huene and I am -- I am really grateful to
actually stand up for the whole community here. I'm a member of the faith of the LGBT
church. MCC, Metropolitan Community Church. I want to feel safe in my community
and work and at home to be in my home without any discrimination or any -- any
interference or exclusion and I'm worried of a quiet undertow of discrimination. I would
want to be -- I would not want to be denied or employed of any service of being queer.
This disheartens me of any where I live and I wish this wasn't a problem in my
hometown. I'm asking for your support. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jason.
Coles: Camilla Meyers signed up in favor. Rose Hunter in favor. LaNae Cunningham
against. David Gardner against. Brandan Rodgers in favor. Weston Rodgers in favor.
Rylee Rodgers in favor. Randy Rodgers in favor. Bev Donahue against. Kevin
Whipple against.
De Weerd: Good evening, Kevin. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
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Whipple: Yes . Thank you. My name is Kevin Whipple. I live at 3640 North Morning
Sky. Madam Mayor and Members of the City Council, want to thank you for the
opportunity to speak tonight. I wasn't planning on doing so, but those that are here and
know me didn't believe it when I said I wasn't going to speak and I guess they were
right. I have a tendency to upset both sides and tonight might not be any different. I --
I want to thank you for all the time that you put into this. I initially came here believing
that I was going to be in favor, but as I have thought and contemplated while I'm sitting
here -- while I appreciate the -- including the masterpiece case of BSA versus Dale and
specifically excluding religious institutions, I still feel that there is work to be done and I
still have some concerns. Because of my conservative Christian faith, although I hold a
traditional view of marriage and I still -- I believe that central to my faith is the fact that
all people are created with an inherent value and in the image of God. As such I believe
that all people have civil rights and I strongly believe that violations of the civil rights
should be prosecuted. I am -- I am thankful for protection for people that I don't agree
with. I have a sister who is lesbian. I have nieces and nephews that have -- well, I have
got a big family, so we have probably got just about every sexuality in our family you
can imagine. However, I -- I remain opposed to this for three basic reasons. First of all,
I'm a combat veteran, I lost three of my men in Panama and when we came back some
folks were burning flags and I was reminded that we fought and those men died for their
rights to burn that flag as well and so while I feel that -- that you cannot legislate
morality, I believe that it is inherently wrong for anyone to treat somebody poorly, to
mock them, to deny them a job or anything of the sort. I also believe in a person's right
to their opinion as opposed to mine. I am concerned as a businessman that if I were to
perhaps be hiring an analyst and a lot of times my decision is not -- is not easy to
decide, just somebody seems like a better fit, it would be hard for me to defend why I
hired a straight person. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you, Kevin.
Whipple: Yes.
De Weerd: You might have a question here. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Kevin, you gave us your street address, but not the city.
Which city is it?
Whipple: Meridian.
Palmer: Meridian? Okay. Thanks.
Whipple: Yes .
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Coles: Tyler Danley signed up against.
De Weerd: In the back.
Danley: Hi.
De Weerd: Hi, Tyler.
Danley: Hey. My name is Tyler Danley. I live 2675 South Garabaldi Avenue in
Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Danley: I go to Renaissance High School. They are a very accepting community over
there. They have a GSA club over there, which is Gender Sexuality Association and it's
a very accepting community. I just want to say we as people grow from working and
loving as a community, but there also has to be freedom of what our businesses do.
Businesses are things that we run and enforce rules to said businesses. If we want to
enforce the Bible as our rules and -- I think that's great for that business owner to do
and we already have a strong LGBT community in the Boise, Idaho, area and it's -- and
I know they have been accepted in this area. I don't think there needs to be a law for
that. I personally have been laughed at for being an outspoken Christian, but I'm really -
- I'm fine about that. It really doesn't upset me too much. It's just how people think.
And you have to learn from that, because there is always going to be somebody that's
against you and you just have to accept -- accept that. I don't want -- I personally don't
want the government to oppose my views and I don't want to hide my beliefs and I think
we can be one community as long as we don't use the laws against each other. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Tyler .
Coles: David Sasser signed up in favor.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for joining us.
Sasser: My name is Dave Sasser. I live at 2228 West Divide Creek Street in Lochsa
Falls here in Meridian. Like many of the others I just want to thank the Council for
taking up this issue. I am an attorney, 36 years practicing here in Idaho, and I am also
LDS. I am personally familiar with as a church leader and as an attorney -- I have had
numerous conferences and telephone calls with members of the LGBTQI community
about forms of discrimination that this ordinance is intended to address and if anybody
doesn't think it's real in our community they -- they are really mistaken. It's out there
and it's -- and we need this sort of event to address it. I'm very proud of the fact that my
church, the LDS church, as you -- as I'm sure all the members up here know, supported
the Salt Lake ordinance that has been used as a -- as a -- as a model around the
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country and I'm very supportive of this -- of this process. I would just say, in listening to
the talking tonight, it made me pull out my device and -- and reread the proposed
ordinance and I can tell you the language of this ordinance doesn't grant anyone special
rights that all of us who are not in the target group don't already have. It simply puts us
all on equal footing in our community. I wish we had it as a state law, not as a -- not --
that the cities don't have to take the place of what our state government should be
doing. But I'm proud that -- that you have done that. I'm also confident that city officials
can fairly adjudicate and investigate these complaints and that you can properly -- and
that you can properly -- properly resolve them and I just say I'm the father of five adult
children, 13 -- 13 grandchildren and there is nothing in this ordinance that makes me
concerned for their safety, any -- any of them. Adopt it. It's the fair thing to do and it's
the best thing to do for our community. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Megan Vaughn signed up in favor. Drew Harenberg in favor.
De Weerd: Good evening, Drew. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Harenberg: Drew Harenberg. I live on --
De Weerd: You want to pull that closer?
Harenberg: I'm not good at this. Drew Harenberg. 478 Lilly Drive in Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Harenberg: I live about a mile from the city limits of Meridian. I'm transgender and I
don't feel safe, to be honest, when I come over here, because I don't know if I can go
into a place and be treated the same way I did before I came out as transgender. I
spent over 40 years of my life trying to kill myself, because I knew that there was
something wrong with me and I didn't know -- understand what and I finally was doing
some research to help a friend and found some steps to explain me and I'm trans and I -
- it's not my choice. It is who I am and who I have been since birth. The body parts I
was born with do not make me who I am. I don't belong in the women's bathroom, but
I'm not sure I belong in the men's at this point either. Anyone I know who is trans does
not want to mess with somebody in the bathroom, they want to go in, they want to pee,
they want to get out and they don't want to be harassed and I would like -- I work over
here some of the time. I shop over here a lot and I would like to feel that I didn't have to
worry about who I am and being treated -- mistreated when I step over the -- the city
line from Boise to Meridian. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Drew.
Palmer: Madam Mayor.
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Drew, thanks for your comments. You mentioned you don't feel safe. Has
there been any instances in your shopping or your other experiences in Meridian where
you have been discriminated against?
Harenberg: Not really, but I have had friends that have been harassed for various
things, including -- and, actually, Boise, I was harassed more than I have been in
Meridian so far, but I just -- it's always in the back of my mind these days, that it doesn't
feel as safe as it used to be for --
Palmer: Thank you.
Harenberg: Thank you.
Coles: Madam Mayor, that concludes the sign-ups.
De Weerd: Yes , ma'am. And don't worry, if you did not sign up and you want to provide
testimony we will get to you.
Tolman: Thank you. I'm not sure what happened there. Madam Mayor, Meridian City
Council Members, my name is Misty Tolman and thank you for this opportunity of
allowing me to testify this evening. I live on the corner of Black Cat and McMillan in
Meridian and I'm here to testify in support of this ordinance. I know we are at the end of
a long night, we are all very tired. I have to tell you I'm feeling very tired as well. As a
member of LGBT community I tired sitting and listening to my friends and my family
members be disparaged in the way that they have tonight. I hope that it's weighing on
you as profoundly as it is on me, that they came out here tonight, that they put
themselves out here tonight in the way that they did, because if this measure doesn't go
through in the morning they find themselves with no protections and these are the folks
who felt safe enough to come and I can guarantee you for all the people who felt safe
enough to come, there is a dozen who didn't. I know them. I have heard their stories. I
have spoken with them. I have worked on these ordinances for a long time and I know
that they exist. I -- I had my story written out that I wanted to share with you tonight, but
I'm happy to later if we have the chance or if you would like me to, but I feel compelled
to address some things that were said here tonight. First of all, regarding bathroom
panic. I just want to let you know that there are no trans people who are out there
assaulting folks in bathrooms. As a sexual assault survivor I can assure you that it is
not the LGBTQ community that we need to be worried about. Transgender people just
want to use the bathroom. The statistics show us that they are the ones being
assaulted. They are the ones who fear using the bathroom. These are not special
rights. These are extending the rights that everybody has to everyone in the
community. You have heard it before and I'm going to repeat it. Everybody has a
sexual orientation and everybody has a gender identity. Regarding whether or not we
can legislate folks into liking us, I just want to say that Martin Luther King once quoted
something like this -- and it's not verbatim, but it's something along the lines of laws
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can't make a man love me, but they can stop him from lynching me and that's pretty
important. In regards to folks saying that the LGBTQ community has all these other
options that they can go to if somebody refuses them service, I just want you to think for
a moment about people who live in maybe more rural places or maybe you don't feel
comfortable going to a lot of places or maybe don't feel out and safe going to a lot of
places and what they may face in trying to find folks who will serve them. With the rest
of my time I will -- never mind. I'm sorry. I stand for questions. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Misty. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone -- yes.
Tolman: My name is Kristen Tolman . I live at 739 West Riodosa Drive in Meridian. I'm -
-
De Weerd: You need to come a little closer.
K.Tolman: Sorry. I'm nervous.
De Weerd: Thank you. That's all right.
K.Tolman: I didn't write anything down. Everybody has these speeches all written out.
I own a business in Meridian and I'm a licensed clinical professional counselor. I just
wanted to speak about the mental health impacts of this bill. I am obviously for it. We
know that discrimination leads to increased rates of suicide, depression, and anxiety
against anybody and we also know that there has been no evidence to suggest that
anti-discrimination laws lead to increased rates of suicide. So, that's what I wanted to
say. Any questions? Any therapy? I'm here.
De Weerd: It depends on the moment, you know. Thank you. Yes.
Kennison: Yes . My name is Timothy Kennison. I live at 1125 West State Street in
Meridian, Idaho, and I thank you guys for this opportunity to speak in front of you today.
I want to start off by saying I graduated high school two years ago and this is my senior
year at Bible College at the church up the road here and I want to say that on behalf of
all the Christians here and the faith community that we do not accept discrimination of
any form. We go against it. We preach love. We preach acceptance in the way of faith
and that we don't tell any -- there is nobody in our churches that is told go out and tell a
gay person that you don't like them. That is absolutely ridiculous and uncalled for and I
want to say that if this bill is passed I believe that it will cause my future to be hindered
as somebody who is going to be graduating and if -- I honestly am scared for my own
words and if anything that I say gets taken the wrong way or if I'm helping talk to
somebody or counsel, my -- my words could be taken the wrong way and I could get in
trouble for it or I'm thinking about my words over and over and over and that could
cause me to be put at risk, too, if this ordinance gets passed and one thing that I do not
agree with discrimination but in my workplace, because I'm a Christian I get called a
child molester all the time. I get called the faith preacher boy that everybody hates.
And I don't believe that's right, but I believe that it is their right to say whatever they
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want and I do not believe that any Christian or any human being, for that matter, should
discriminate against another person, but that other person -- but that person has the
right to free speech and I just wanted to thank you guys for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you, Timothy.
Kapellas: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Kapellas: I will make this short and sweet. I'm Steve Kapellas. Live here in Meridian.
3769 North Greenwich Way. Wasn't really going to come up and say anything, but
some of the comments I have heard are -- just kind of concern me a little bit. I'm a gay
man. I'm one of the California ex-pats. So, don't hold that against me. But I chose
Meridian. You know, I moved up here, I wanted to get away from, you know, California.
I live right next to Settlers Park, which my dog and I love, and, you know, I retired -- for
27 years I was a federal law enforcement officer. So, you know, I have to give you
credit in hearing how you drafted the legislation. I think it's actually very well thought out
from an investigative point and, you know, people brought up here patriotism and
service. Yeah. I'm one of those guys. You know, I mean I -- I did it, you know, and
some of the crimes that I worked -- I worked a lot of financial crimes. I worked a lot of
crimes involving cash smuggling, money laundering, but some of the most satisfying
crimes that I worked were crimes against children and I worked crimes involving child
pornography and child sex tourism and, you know, it was probably some of the most
satisfying work that I have ever done putting people away who -- I put them away for a
long time -- putting people away who harmed children and so as I hear that there is so
much concern about children, you know, it's just kind of taken me back a little bit,
because that's -- you know, I -- I want to live -- I want to live a life here in Meridian
where I don't want to intrude on anyone else and I don't want to intrude on them. There
has to be a balance. So, I guess that's, you know, all I really wanted to say. I said I had
no plans to come up here, but I just, you know, wanted to come up and say it. That's it.
Any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve, for sharing. Yes. Good evening.
Day: Good evening. My name is Sarah Day and I live at 233 West Broadway, just a
few blocks that way, and I'm in favor. I would like to address something that I have
heard a number of people who are against say, which is that they feel that we do not
need laws to dictate that we be compassionate to our neighbors. Well, you know, I
might say that I don't feel we need laws to tell us not to murder our neighbors either, but
here we are. I grew up in Idaho. I have had family in Idaho since the handcart
migration and my father is a retired judge and I think it is important that we do have laws
that protect all of our citizens the same way that we do currently have ones protecting
on the other prohibited bases for discrimination, such as, you know, age, sex, national
origin, religion, and race and so on. It's -- we are really kind of repeating the same kind
of arguments that were had a few decades ago about that is how I feel. So, I would
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urge you to support the measure. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sarah. I saw a hand in the back. Yes. And, then, we will get --
Gjesdal: Hello, Mayor, Council. My name is David Gjesdal. I live on Labrador Place
here Meridian. I was going through some things here and I don't know if you go through
that nondiscrimination list pretty soon you're adding to it all the time and pretty soon
they are getting in conflict with each other. When you see the sex -- or there are three
things that are devoted to sex and -- there is sex -- sexual orientation and gender
identity, pretty soon that's in conflict with religion and you're increasing the conflict in this
by -- by just defining these things and so I don't think it would be helpful to add this
anymore to this list. The ACLU would -- has a field day with this all the time in trying to
go after people who might be supposedly violating one of these. But it doesn't cover
violation of conscience. That's your own fault. And so we keep adding to this. You
know, it's like laws against distracted driving. It used to be that that was chargeable in
itself. Now you got to add cell phones to it or you can't charge them? Or you have to
add eating a hamburger or you can't charge them? It's already covered by a number of
laws and I think properly implementing them is the best way of doing that without adding
more and more and you can't cover enough laws -- or have enough laws to cover
everything. There is already laws against bad behavior. If there is assault, there is
assault. If they do it for whatever reason it's still assault. Why do you need to have
another reason for adding more penalty to an assault when there is already an assault.
I was disappointed to see the Boise wanted to honor the LGBT people by hoisting the
flag -- their flag. Would you hoist the Christian flag? Why would we honor a lifestyle
over another lifestyle? And so we are getting into issues there all the time and I think if
you kind of review some of these things you will see that they are in conflict with each
other when you start adding too many things to this list and I urge you to oppose it. Any
questions?
De Weerd: Thank you for your testimony. Yes, ma'am. And, then, I saw a hand over
here. We will get you afterwards and, then, in the back. Now first this lady. Not yet.
We will get to you in two times. Welcome.
Norris: Welcome. Thank you, Madam Mayor and esteemed Council Members. My
name is Melinda Norris. I live at 1004 North Scrivner Way, Meridian, Idaho. 83642. I
appreciate the opportunity to be able to speak tonight and I greatly appreciate the
comments of all of those before me. There have been some very valid concerns
expressed on both sides and -- and I appreciate the fact that we have you to at least
bring this forward. It is true -- much has been said, so I will not repeat it, but -- and it
is true that you cannot legislate morality. I understand that completely and we all as a
society wish that everyone would be on their best behavior. Unfortunately, not
everybody graduates at the top of the class and so until, then, I believe this ordinance is
important and I urge you to consider it and vote for it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Melinda.
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Norris: In case there is any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Norris: Thank you.
Elsbury: Hi.
De Weerd: Hi.
Elsbury: My name is Ryan Elsbury and I call home 693 East Segundo Drive. I currently
go to College of Idaho, so that's why I'm wearing this, because I actually did not plan on
speaking tonight, but from what I have heard I -- I felt I really had to speak. So, mental
health has been a very important part of my life, because six weeks before I was born
my -- my uncle killed himself. His name was Craig Ryan Elsbury. My name is Ryan
Craig Elsbury. So, if you can put those together you can see how that shaped my life.
Getting comparisons all my life about hearing I'm so similar to someone who has killed
himself. So, mental health has been so big to me that I last year started a social
enterprise model called Green Minds with some of my friends at the College of Idaho.
We went on to win 13,000 dollars at the Idaho Entrepreneurship Challenge for Green
Minds, which our slogan is by -- by promoting a green thumb we can promote a green
mind. I can go into that pitch later, but just know -- just know that is the main center
point of this is that it's mental health related and everyone in this room cannot deny that
suicide rates for people who are of the LGBTQ community have significantly higher
suicide rates. This is ridiculous that this is happening. We should have any
measurement in our power to make sure our friends, our family, our neighbors are not
killing themselves. We can talk about how much money we can save by not doing this
or the business can lose money, but who cares if someone is being discriminated about
and they are no longer here. No longer here to make the money that everyone else in
this room seems so damn caring about. Who cares. At the end of the day you can't
take it with you to the grave and because of so many people in Idaho are very
discriminatory to the LGBT community, this is such a matter of importance that status
passes. A lot of members have mentioned that this is a choice. Could you imagine
being outcast because your favorite color is red, for not being able to live the life you
want because of -- even if it was a choice and I -- I don't believe it is, because why
would you choose to be discriminated upon nonstop. So, these are the reasons why I
believe that today this should be passed and I believe that there would be plenty more
people here to support this bill if there weren't so many people who are going to have to
go to class in the morning or they have to -- they are young, so they have to go to work,
which is why you're going to see a bias in the elderly population. Their -- their opinion
matters just as much. But there is plenty of people who couldn't be here tonight
because they have other commitments. Thanks for letting me speak today.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ryan.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Ryan, hold on for a sec. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Ryan, you mentioned the address that you call home. Is that
in Meridian?
Elsbury: Yes .
Palmer: Awesome. Thanks.
De Weerd: There was one in the back. Yes . Good evening.
Ellis: good evening. Todd Ellis, Boise, Idaho.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, what was your first name?
Ellis: Todd.
De Weerd: Todd. Thank you.
Ellis: The base idea that I would present is that outside of -- of freedom of religion,
freedom of speech and freedom of government redress, civil issues should be medically
verified. Now, the reason I say that is because when you got invisible civil issues,
enforced by government penalties, fines, prosecution, imprisonment, you have created
a platform of agenda. Well, to start with giant government -- very big government and
how we pay the taxes I don't think they really can be paid, but in addition to that, what
are the agendas? Well, they have said here that they are not in the bathrooms, that's
biologically impossible. I know the agendas would be -- to start with child molesting, a
child molester a neighbor. Debauchery --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Sir, I appreciate your testimony. I don't think you were here earlier. I would
really encourage you to refrain from diminishing the reputation of anybody in this room
for the rest of your testimony. I'm happy to hear it.
Ellis: Okay.
Cavener: But it's going to be kind, it's going to be respectful.
Ellis: All right. Thank you. I will be careful. Yeah. Well, the agendas could go into
seeing people's ability to live diminished if you didn't like somebody, if you thought that -
- so, you wouldn't necessarily have to be gay to see a -- you know, medically verifying
anything. There is a lot of agenda and the possibility of persecution. But this
persecution against people that, obviously, might have something that you want. You
could also see the injustice that's been brought down on the judges ever since Clarence
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Thomas and up until now they have always persecuted conservatives. I believe that
this issue would persecute conservatives and target conservatives and, you know, the
government issue being big government, they would favorite it drastically. I have never
seen the liberal judges persecuted like what we are seeing now and as a human being
persecution. I mean they say they are going to be persecuted -- I hope not. I believe
they should be protected under freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of
government redress, but that is where it should stop. I'm not represented by any special
interest as a Christian. I'm not represented by any special interest, and nor do I want to
be. So, for me I just don't think the agenda is explained. I don't -- I think that they are
saying that they are a civil issue, like handicap or age. I just -- or sex. I just do not
agree with that at all. Now, the next time I come in here, if I sign up again and this has
passed and I'm against it, again, that could be illegal. I could go to jail. In some areas
it's gone that far. So, again, even now we are here -- something has been said. I
happen to -- I'm not offended by it, but next time it could be very serious. So, this
progressive --
De Weerd: Thank you, Todd.
Ellis: I appreciate that. Thanks.
De Weerd: Hi. You have testified before; correct? Oh. Okay. Well, we will get you
next.
R.Onyon: My name is Ray Onyon. I live at 2286 West Kelly Creek Drive in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ray.
R.Onyon: I work here in Meridian. From my reading of the ordinance and from Council
Borton's reading of it or explanation of it, I think it's a very fair ordinance. I don't think it
steps on anybody's religious rights. I think it just levels the playing field for everybody.
Why should anybody be discriminated against? I have heard a lot of people say they
are in favor of nondiscrimination, but there is always that possibility. This ordinances is
very well crafted. I think the Council should be very proud of it and I believe they should
pass this. I don't believe that it's going to hurt anybody in the ways of their freedom of
speech. Nobody's going to jail for it. There is a very good way of -- for the two sides to
come together and -- and try to work it out or if somebody is doing something illegal
there is a path for that to be addressed. I really thank you for your time, Mayor and
Council, and I'm for this ordinance.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ray.
Onyon: Thank you.
De Weerd: Good evening.
J.Butterworth: Good evening. My name is Josiah Butterworth. I live at 478 East Lake
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Creek Street.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josiah.
J.Butterworth: I can understand how you would think that I might have testified.
Several of my family members have and --
De Weerd: There is just some familiar look there; right?
J.Butterworth: Anyways. So, I -- I have a couple rhetorical questions first. Isn't assault
illegal already? Isn't murder illegal already? This law does not provide protection. All it
does is turn ordinary citizens into criminals because of their beliefs. That's all I have to
say.
De Weerd: Thank you. Good evening.
McKinney: Good evening. I'm David McKinney. I live at 1225 West Bacall Street in
Meridian. Very few of the people who have spoken here tonight have actually gotten
into the language of this ordinance and with all due respect to those who have crafted it,
I think this is a really bad ordinance and let me point out some of the major problems
with it. First of all, the standards and definitions in it are so broad and so vague and
subjective. Look at it, for example. Under discrimination. Discrimination is defined, in
part, as any other differentiation in the treatment of a person. That is so broad it could
cover a dirty look or an offhand comment or what have you. The definition of full
enjoyment talks about people being treated as not welcome. Treated in the eyes of
whom? That's a subjective decision. All that it depends upon is someone's feelings.
They go to a restaurant and, oh, I didn't feel welcome in that particular public
establishment. Now, we are going to have a criminal law -- and that's what this is,
because it provides for criminal penalties and prosecution -- a criminal law based upon
feelings. Let's look further. You have in the definition of place of public
accommodation, it includes any public place -- and now, first of all, this section -- let's
see. Place of public accommodation. This is a sentence that goes on for so long and is
so dense and so difficult that interpretation and understanding is next to impossible for
the average person. I'm an attorney. I have looked at this and it's hard for me to parse
this. But look what it includes -- the way it's written it almost -- it sounds like it covers
any business of any kind as a public place, when, in fact, businesses are actually
privately owned, generally speaking. And look what else it includes. Public washrooms
of buildings. Nursery schools. Daycare centers. Children's camps. Now, there are
people that have legitimate concerns about the influence of gay and transgender people
on children and other issues. These are not imaginary things that are just some of this
fear mongering. The reality is this ordinance creates a weapon that will be used in this
culture war that we are seeing right now. That's precisely what this is. It's a weapon,
because look at what can happen. Two people go to a restaurant. They are having
dinner. They overhear a conversation between two staff members at the restaurant
about gay rights. They don't like what these two staff members are saying. They don't
like their opinions. I don't feel welcome here. I feel uncomfortable here. Now,
suddenly, we have businesses that are in trouble. We have individuals who can lose
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their jobs and so on. In this culture war every weapon that can be used --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, David. The time is up. Thank you. Is there any further
testimony? Good evening.
Ryssel: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Diane Ryssel. R-y-s-s-e-l. 2981 Northwest
11th Avenue, Meridian. I -- I had not planned to testify and I well understand it's the
pumpkin Cinderella hour. So, this will be very brief. I'm very grateful for this ordinance
and for what you each have invested in putting together something that is a part of what
I feel is the paradigm shift of our nation. The LBGTQ plus community is not new. These
folks have been here since the beginning of time, but they finally are being able to be
recognized, to be affirmed and to be normalized and be a part of our world of
humankind and I feel like you folks are taking that step. It doesn't have to be called a
progressive liberal road, but it is progressive and it's allowing Meridian to incorporate
everyone on a level playing field and I'm grateful for that. There is a lot of the testimony
that's went on this evening that was a lot of what I would have wanted to say and one
gentleman who spoke about the reputation of Idaho, when you go outside of Idaho and
you hear what they are saying, he was accurate and I feel like you folks are investing in
changing that message and bringing a message of inclusive that is much needed,
because we are all in this together regardless of who you believe the Creator is, he or
she, whoever, created all of us and we are in this game together and it's important that
we find a way to play together and play together well and so I appreciate what you're
doing and I truly pray that this can help normalize a community of people that are an
important part of our world. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Ryssel: Any questions?
De Weerd: Okay. Council, that's the end of our public testimony. Do you have any
questions of any of those that provided testimony?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I appreciate that the hour is is late, but many of us have been sitting down for
a considerable amount of time.
De Weerd: That is what I was going to do if there was no questions of those that
provided testimony.
Cavener: I don't have any questions and a break before our deliberation would be
great.
De Weerd: And I will call a ten minute recess.
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(Recess: 10:20 p.m. to 10:33 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. If I could call this meeting back to order. Okay. Council, at this point
discussion? Questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I will kick off some -- some discussion. This -- public process has been very
valuable to have gone through, this not only having received over 300 written
comments, but having the testimony today by our community and our valley sharing
their stories and insight on this ordinance. I would -- and appreciate everyone having
an opportunity to complete that process. I would -- I guess as a preliminary matter
move to close the public hearing on Item 8-F.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: You have discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just follow up more with some -- some comments. The input, again, is
extremely valuable and -- and it's been important to listen to our community in
addressing this issue in how we might handle it with this proposed ordinance. Or a
proposed ordinance. There is and has been a great effort that has gone into trying to
address a lot of the things that -- that we heard today, both in support and an opposition
to it and I -- and I appreciate the Mayor and the entire Council being supportive of trying
to approach this difficult subject fairly and delicately and with the objective respect that it
deserves. I want to thank each and every one of you who has done so with respect
towards each other, even though we disagree, perhaps, and you may disagree with
your neighbors sitting around you, the discussion was respectful. It was primarily
focused on the merits of the ordinance, your personal experiences, and that's not to be
glossed over. That's not to be made light of and I speak of it because it's very
important, if an ordinance like this is to go forward that you have a governing body that
listens and provides that opportunity and that forum to ensure your views are heard.
That's the theme and that's the rationale and that's the philosophy that an ordinance like
this, if it goes forward, it's going to carry to be successful. I spoke about it at the start
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about how this was crafted and drafted and how we captured principles within the
ordinance to facilitate that fair, balanced, objective approach as best we can and I think,
quite frankly, we are doing it, have proposed it better than other communities throughout
the state. But it is without hesitation or reservation that I'm supportive of this effort. I
applaud everybody who might have been afraid to speak out today for or against.
There is a lot of courage in this room to have expressed their viewpoints here. You may
get pressure at your church or family dinner for anything you have shared and a lot of
people shared some heartwarming things and that takes courage no matter what
happens. So, God bless you all. I appreciate that. This is something that I think is so
important and it's such an opportunity that we don't get as elected officials very often. I
don't know -- it's just -- get those times when you have an opportunity to do something
kind of special. You don't -- you don't know what you're guaranteed in life. You don't
know -- you're not guaranteed tomorrow. You're not guaranteed anything. But we have
got today and we have for us an opportunity to make a statement to our community and
to our valley and to our state, every single one of us, and I do not want to let that
opportunity pass. It is too important. I don't know if I will ever have a chance to sit up
here to speak on it. I don't know if any of us will. We are guaranteed nothing. So, I am
emphatically requesting that this get passed. I'm very supportive of it. I'm very
supportive of the effort to create the balance, as best we can, to put in this ordinance
recognition of the religious liberties that are afforded to us, to phrase it and structure it in
a way that those liberties must be exercised within the parameters that the law dictates.
So, I cannot rest my head tonight without asking this Council in front of this community
to support this ordinance. I will kick off what I'm sure will be more discussion, with a
motion to approve Ordinance 18-1791 with suspension of rules.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Certainly I anticipate discussion.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I hate -- I hate going after Joe, because he's such a great speaker and lawyer,
but I will make it really quick. To me it was great hearing all of the testimony and having
you all come out tonight on both sides, but this ordinance to me is -- is about civil
liberties and human rights. It tells the community that we are -- Meridian is inclusive of
all and this is not special privileges for anybody, it's simply giving the same protections
that I have as a woman and other people have if they -- you know, if they are of a
different race or have a disability, it offers a protection and although I think it should be
the same exact protection, we don't -- we don't have the ability to do that, so, in
essence, this ordinance encompasses me as well. So, it does include everybody in the
same way and I hope that rather than punish people for discriminating, that it will
prevent people from discriminating and I -- and I -- and to those people who came and --
and are against this ordinance, I understand your fears, but I really believe they are
going to turn into nothing and -- and most of you said, you know, you're not -- you don't
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discriminate and you come from a place of love and -- and God and faith and if that's
the truth, this won't have any negative effect on you and you won't have to worry about
it. So, I very strongly support this and I am proud to be part of this.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Thank you, first, for everyone being here tonight,
especially as we are getting into a later and later hour. Cannot express enough how
much it's appreciated to hear from our community and to have you all here and very
bravely stand up and share your stories with us. I, for one, started out really wondering
if this -- when we started talking about this two years ago, when I -- or three years ago
when I first came in on the Council, it was already under discussion and I, for one, was
one of those that wondered if this was anything that we needed. I didn't realize, I guess,
how imperfect Meridian can be and just wanted to think that we did all love each other
and everything was great and the more we talked about it the more the stories came out
that really and truly just broke my heart. I do believe we need this ordinance. I believe
that everyone deserves protection that many of us currently live with and just -- and
support its passage.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, I'm going to be voting against the motion. When Mr. Borton originally
presented the idea of bringing this forward as a potential ordinance, he had talked about
-- his plan at the time would be to kind of space this out over 90 days, that it would be --
we would have a chance to -- to see a draft and discuss, you know, what's contained in
it, to kind of try to perfect it before putting it out to the public as a draft ordinance that
would be discussed at a public hearing and, then, a month later, after the chance -- the
public has had a chance to digest it, have a public hearing to be able to hear what the
public has to say about it and have time to make sure as many people as possible know
about it, to give us their thoughts on it and, then, we would take the public comment and
over the next month decide whether any adjustments need to be made to the language
and, then, have discussion as Council and a vote on it. We were -- the draft was set in
front of us a few moments before we voted on September 4th to put it out to the public
as the draft that we discuss tonight and, then, that -- the public hearing was, obviously,
set for tonight. So, it went from a 90 day plan to make sure that we did this right, in
Councilman Borton's words, to a 21 day process to where now it appears that we are
going to be making a decision on this. So, I plan to vote against the motion, because I
would like some more time to possibly make some adjustments, to have a conversation
with Mr. McKinney. He had three minutes and where he was trying to dissect a lot of
the broader potential issues that may arise from this and I would love an opportunity to
slow down -- I don't often quote my predecessor in this seat, but he said what -- what
did he always say? Why are we in a hurry or we don't need to be in a hurry. If we are
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going to do this it needs to be done right and there is some serious concerns with -- with
the language where we have only had 21 days to try to figure this out. So, even if it's
another week or two or, hopefully, three or four weeks to be able to -- to make sure that
this is done right, that's the way that this process needs to happen.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I -- it's a -- it's a wonderful feeling, in my opinion, to be able to be part of this
process and to -- and to be someone from Meridian and to -- and to call Meridian my
home. Someone said earlier that -- I wrote -- I wrote down a ton of notes -- and I have
never done this -- and I just have all thoughts I was writing down and I will skip -- I will
skip it all, but there is one comment that was made earlier that said -- and I love this
comment. It said we should legislate on the basis of wisdom, not fear, and I truly -- and
I truly believe in that statement. I can -- I can -- I can understand where that -- that
comment came from. I struggle with this only on the basis of my deep philosophical
view on the role of government and it -- this wasn't spoken this evening, but there is not
a person in this room that knows me that understands -- that doesn't understand where I
-- where I come from in regard to equality. I -- I believe in equality for all. Some of the
greatest testimony this evening was so emotional and so powerful and I will never forget
it. My love for all humans are the same. I have always felt that way and I always will.
But for me on this issue, this is not an issue -- this is not, in my opinion, an ordinance in
-- in -- not only in the City of Meridian, but any municipality. I believe that this is policy
that should be discussed at the state level and it's in their hands and -- and, honestly,
right now I call on all of our elected officials here in Meridian, at our state capitol, to
have this dialogue on the floors of both the House and also the Senate. I -- I -- it upsets
me that they put us -- different municipalities in the state of Idaho in this position where
we have this dialogue, when it's their responsibility to act and I believe it's appalling and
I believe it's not right that their discussion can't even leave committee. That it stays in
committee and the vote is on party lines and to me that's shameful and I -- and I -- and I
-- and I'm probably going to get in big trouble for saying these things, there is no doubt
about it, because my language is very strong, but I feel passionately about this, that
they at least need to let people talk -- let people talk, put it on the floor and the people
converse and express their -- their opinions and so, again, I call on our legislative
officials here in the City of Meridian that represent us at the state capitol and urge them
to please -- to please allow this vote to happen on the state -- and I'm not saying how
they should vote for -- they need to talk about it at the very least. I feel strongly about
that. This evening I appreciate your passion and, again, I'm truly grateful to be from
Meridian tonight. Tonight was a great night and I thank you for it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I was fortunate a couple weeks ago to watch Mr. Rogers documentary with
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my wife and my oldest son and I didn't realize this as a kid, but I realize it today. When
he would come on camera he would say it's really great to see you and I'm really glad
you're here. I'm glad they are here, too. They want to know what's going on. I feel that
way tonight. I'm really glad that everyone's here on -- on both sides of this issue,
because if there is one thing that all of us can take away from this issue, there are
people that are here today that are passionate about our community, that are really
committed to making Meridian a better place. I was very fortunate in 2008 to work for
the Mayor and during the State of the City address that she gave when I was under her
employment, she announced something called Inclusion Revolution, which was led by
our youth in this community to say it doesn't matter where you came from, what your
background was, what color of your skin, who you were attracted to or what disability
you did or didn't have, you were included in our community. I was really, really proud of
the Inclusion Revolution and as great ideas often become, they -- they explode, they get
big and, then, they go away. But the sentiment behind the Inclusion Revolution has kind
of stayed with me. If you're on City Council there is a couple of things that I think are
important to -- to note. It's been suggested tonight that there are outside parties that are
influencing the City Council's action and one of the things that I think is really great
about our community is -- it's true, there are a lot of outside influences. It's all of you.
It's our citizens. This is something that we as a Council have discussed as a -- as a
body. Some of us are in favor, some of us are opposed, but we have discussed it as a
body. There is not a group saying you need to do this in Meridian. Instead, it's we were
elected by our community to say this is something that's important to us and I think that
is something that is very, very special about Meridian, is that we are a community lead
Council. Now, inevitably I think a vote will be taken, some will be excited about the
vote, others will be upset, but we are here because we are doing our best to represent
what we believe our citizens say is important to them. Secondarily, Council Member
Bernt, very fiery, which I appreciate, voiced his -- his frustration that this is before us
and not at the state and -- and I can appreciate his frustrations. One of the things that
makes Idaho so great, regardless of how you feel on this issue, is we embrace local
control and the government that is closest to the people has an opportunity to make
decisions that impact those people and that's why I am really, really proud to be
supportive of this ordinance. I was doing a lot of research while people were talking and
trying to address where I think are -- are some fears from some of our citizens and
some valid, maybe not some so much, but I -- I found myself on -- on the Foursquare
Church page and there was a blurb about nondiscrimination ordinances and the line at
the top has just stuck with me and so regardless of how you feel and regards to how
you feel about the Council or this ordinance, is something that I hope all of you will take
with you today and that is it's incumbent upon us as a community to love others beyond
our own comfort. That's really easy to say and for someone like me who is kind of a
grump most of the time, that's really hard to do something. But it's something that I'm
going to try. So, it's -- it's really nice to see you and thank you all for being here and,
Madam Mayor, if there is -- if there is no other comments, I would be happy to call for
the question.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
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Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Before we do that I'm going to read the -- the
ordinance by title first.
De Weerd: Yeah. That was my instruction. Will you, please, read the ordinance by title
only.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I knew it was. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 18-
1791, an ordinance adding Meridian City Code Section 6-3-13 regarding discrimination
prohibited. Adopting a savings clause and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. Would anyone like to hear read in its entirety? Really? Mr.
Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
nay.
De Weerd: The motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
De Weerd: I -- hey, please, don't. Okay. You guys forgot my instruction already? I
would like to thank all of you for coming out and for respecting each other's opinions.
While I was concerned that this would divide our community, I did take -- I did take a lot
of pleasure in hearing some similar undertones, you know, both the -- the for and the
against, is this is one community that doesn't want to discriminate. They -- they want to
love one another. The question was does this is give a special privilege. I would agree
that this is something that our state legislature should be addressing, not at the local
level, and it's really unfortunate that our -- our state has -- has shirked that
responsibility, because making this a criminal -- which is the only tool we have at the
city level -- is not the appropriate tool.
Bernt: I agree.
De Weerd: It is a civil issue and that tool only belongs to the state to keep it on the
equal playing field. They need to have those discussions and they need to see -- and
there is a lot of disagreement on if it's -- if this is already covered in the protections that
we already have in Title 7 and I would be interested, too, in hearing what Mr. McKinney
had to say in looking at this language a little bit further. Are we rushing to judgment and
-- and trying to make a decision that now we have to live with language or do we take a
little bit more time and -- and consider our intent and our -- our desire to give equal
protection to all of our citizens. So, with that said I -- I think that we will let you go and
thank you for being respectful.
Item 9: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Okay. Council, we have one last item of Item No. 9, Future Meeting Topics .
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Anything listed? I do have -- we have the telephone town hall, which is tomorrow from
6:00 to 7:00. We have the middle school's youth safety summit on Thursday, the 27th,
at Wahooz. Next week we kick off our United Way campaign and we have our faith
leaders luncheon on October 4th at 11:30. 1 might be interesting. So, please, join in.
And with that I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Bernt: I move that we adjourn.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:58 P.M.
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