HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-09-18 MinutesMeridian City Council September 18, 2018.
A Meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:04 p.m., Tuesday,
September 18, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy de Weerd, Joe Borton, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer, Genesis
Milam, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Also present: C. Jay Coles, Bill Nary, Sonya Allen, Josh Beach, Mark Ford, Kevin
Fedrizzi, Steve Siddoway, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Treg Bernt
__X___Genesis Milam __X___Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Welcome to our City Council meeting. We thank you for joining us and, in
particular, for Troop 174. We always appreciate our scouts to join us. They will be
leading us in the pledge in a few minutes. For the record it is Tuesday, September 18th.
It's four minutes after 6:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item 2 is our Pledge. We will be lead today, so they will give instruction by
Troop 174. They are sponsored the Bellano Creek Ward and the Meridian 20th Spanish
Branch. So, I will ask our scouts to step forward and they will instruct us on what to do.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Mark Bryan of Harvest Church
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. Item 3 is our community invocation. Is Pastor
Bryan here? We will be led tonight by Pastor Mark Bryan with the Harvest Church. If
you will all join us in the community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a
moment of reflection. Pastor. I'm going to make a special request. Will you put -- lift
my mom up in prayer?
Bryan: Yes, I would be happy to.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bryan: What is her name?
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De Weerd: Sidney Bartlett.
Bryan: Praying for mom Sidney.
De Weerd: We lost my dad last week, so --
Bryan: That's right. My condolences. I did hear that. I'm sorry.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bryan: Father in Heaven, we come to you now in the mighty and powerful name of
Jesus Christ and we ask you for grace and assistance for life. We thank you for your
love, for your kindness, for your wonderful care and your concern about all the things
that we can face in life and, Lord, we lift up Mayor Tammy's mother who is walking
through a season of loss and grief and we ask you to comfort her. We ask you to
comfort, Lord, all those that might be in that situation across our city, our relationships
and our families who may have lost a loved one and we asked you to comfort the
bereaved. We ask you tonight for our nation, for our state, for our cities. We ask for a
peace to settle over hearts that are traumatized with violence and with incivility and
anger and the trouble that we see in our streets and we thank you that much of it has
not touched our streets and we thank you for that. But we do pray for our first
responders, for our police and fire and medical and all those that try to hold the line in
the area of grief and trauma and loss of life and try to relieve the oppressed and, Lord,
there is so much suffering in the earth today, we ask you for help. We ask you for
wisdom, we thank you that there is a wisdom that is from above. It's peaceable and
gentle and willing to converse and yield on points of stubbornness in order that wisdom
could be exalted. We pray for truth to be exalted. We pray for lie exposed. We pray for
integrity to return to the halls of government and we ask you for help in our families, in
our homes, in our schools. We asked you for help. We are a nation that needs you
now. Bless this evening in the deliberations of this City Council. Be with the Mayor as
she works through the loss that she has mentioned here tonight and thank you that we
can look to you. Give wisdom where wisdom as needed. Give patience where patience
is needed and deference where it is needed. Courage where it is needed. May we be
better because we have trusted, in Jesus' name. Amen.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you for allowing me that special request. Item 4 is
adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: It does not appear that there are any changes to the agenda as published. So,
I would move that we adopt the agenda.
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Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Item 5. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. In reviewing the -- those that signed up for the
public forum, it appears that all of them relate to an item that is later on tonight's Council
agenda, which is Item 9-G. So, there are none that are outside of wanting to address
the Council for 9-G.
Item 6: Consent Agenda [Action Item] Approved
A. Approve Minutes of September 4, 2018 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of September 4, 2018 City Council Executive
Session
C. Approve Minutes of September 11, 2018 City Council
Workshop
Meeting
D. Meridian Centercal Partial Release of Sewer and Water
Easement
E. Twelve Oaks Centre Subdivision Partial Release of Sewer &
Water Easement
F. Trust Storage Water Main Easement
G. Final Order for Hill's Century Farm Subdivision No. 11 (H-2018-
0068) by Brighton Investments, LLC , Located East of S. Eagle
Rd. and South of E . Amity Rd.
H. Findings of Fact, Conclusion of Law for Gurney Office Condos
(H2018-0080) by Horrock Engineers, Located at 1831 S . Topaz
Way
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I. Findings of Fact, Conclusion of Law for Stonemont
Subdivision (H2018-0078) by Langley Associates, Located at 3520 E.
Overland Rd.
J. Findings of Fact, Conclusion of Law for 750 E. Ustick (H-2018-
0061) by Zina Denny, Located at 750 and 772 E. Ustick Rd.
K. Resolution No. 18-2101: A Resolution To Amend The Future
Land Use Map Of The 2002 Comprehensive Plan For 8.74
Acres Known As Creamline Park Subdivision Generally
Located At 1480 And 1220 W. Franklin Road And 71 And 48
N.W. 13th Place (Lots 1, 2, 9 And 10 Block 1, Creamline Park
Subdivision), In The SW ¼ Of Section 12, Township 3 North,
Range 1 West, Meridian, Idaho.
L. Acceptance Agreement for Display ofArtwork in Initial Point
Gallery
1. Nadene Kranz, December 2018 - January 2019
M. School Resource Officer Agreement between City of Meridian
and West Ada School District
N. Dog License Designee Agreement between Meridian Canine
Rescue and City of Meridian
O. Approval of Purchase Order #18-0522 for New and Sensus
Water Meters to Ferguson Enterprises in the Not-To -Exceed
amount of 69,500.00. This PO is a sole source purchase per
the previously approved Sole Source for Sensus Water Meters
P. Approval of Change Order 3 for Discovery Park AIAAgreement
to Knife River Corp., for the Not-To -Exceed amount of
$103,285.00.
Q. Award of RFQ and Approval Master Agreement for
“CONCRETE
CONSTRUCTION SERVICES – PROJECTS UNDER $50K ” to
BriCon, Inc.
R. Award of Agreement Renewal for “UTILITY BILLING
CUSTOMER
SERVICES ” to Billing Document Specialists for the Not-To -
Exceed approved budget amount of $299,100.00.
S. AP Invoices for Payment - $2,218,463.44
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De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I would move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the
Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr. Clerk,
will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From The Consent Agenda [Action Item]
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Children's Museum of Idaho Update
De Weerd: So, I will move to our community presentation for an update from the
Children's Museum.
Jones: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council.
De Weerd: Hi, Jacy.
Jones: I appreciate your having me back. It was my super stealthy title for that.
Thanks, Josh. I'm Jacy Jones, for those of you who don't know me. I don't know that
we have interacted a lot, Council Member Bernt, so it's nice to see you and Mayor
Tam my, I'm very sorry for your loss. Sincerely I am sorry. I have been in front of this
group a couple of times in the last several years to talk about different iterations of this
project and so I thought it was appropriate to come again and give you an update on
where we are at currently and, then, some interesting developments we have going on.
So, the vision of the Children's Museum of Idaho is to inspire and nurture future
explorers, innovators, and creative thinkers through interplay and a safe, engaging
environment, with hands-on exhibits designed specifically for children ages two to eight
years old. Our primary objectives are to create a dynamic hands-on engaging
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experience and unstructured educational experience where children ages two to eight,
along with the adults in their life, learn through purposeful play. It's a place for children
to encounter unique opportunities, discovery, creativity and imagination, an enriching
atmosphere that is accessible to children and their families regardless of their disability
or income. An opportunity for teens and seniors in the community to volunteer. An
atmosphere that fosters positive intergenerational relationships by encouraging adult-
child interaction, an indoor and outdoor exhibit area designed to connect children with
their natural environment and an unplugged zone where phones and electronic devices
are discouraged. So, history of the project. For those of you who don't know or might
not remember, this original idea came from the Boise Rotary. A woman named Susan
Mahoney, who knows the Mayor, reached out and sort of asked the question why don't
we have a children's museum in Meridian. Why don't have one in Idaho. In our
demographic of young families it seems like a really easy fit and at the time -- this is in
2015. It is around the same time that the Meridian Development Corporation had
partnered with the city to create a survey to find out what citizens in Meridian really
wanted to see for the downtown area and out of 500 families surveyed, Children's
Museum came up as the top of request, the top need for young families, which aligns
perfectly with Mrs. Mahoney's inquiry as to why don't we have one and Meridian's goal
is to be the premier place to live, work and raise a family and because of that Meridian
is the perfect home for the first Children's Museum in Idaho. So, led by Mayor Tammy ,
city staff partnered with the Rotary and local groups and began facilitating a
conversation in October of 2015. It's crazy when I think about -- it will be three years in
October that we have been diligently working on this project and -- and have seen many
iterations as time has gone on and to be in the place that we are now. So, from 2015 to
2018 we morphed. I was in front of this group once asking for the Bubbles Museum and
I was in front of this group once as The Station, a children's museum, and now, finally,
as Children's Museum of Idaho. Over those three years we have had a variety of
people that I would say were impactful to our projects, who participated in our advisory
committee or in our -- our growing and changing board, who have helped with planning
and supporting our projects, one of which was the Meridian Press, who has always
been a great partner for us. Patty Bowen with Meridian Press reached out to me in
early 2018 and wanted to do an article on The Station. She wanted to know what we
were doing and wanted to get the public updated and that happened to be a completely
wonderful kismet event because a woman named Pat Baker read that article and Pat
Baker is a champion of all things youth and all things community. She had been
pursuing opening a children's museum as a business and seriously considering that for
about the past 11 years. She read our article in the Meridian Press, happened to reach
out to Hillary at the city, and we were able to connect our two organizations. So, in
March The Station sat down with Pat and we talked about our goals. We talked about
how we could be collaborative versus competitive and what we could do to get the
museum facility here sooner rather than later. So, in March of this year our groups
merged and we created the new nonprofit of the Children's Museum of Idaho and we
have been moving forward as a new board since that time. We were able to rent a
facility and this currently is the old Dupus Boomers location or Tony Roma's location
over on -- on Progress next to Winco. It's in the Central Park Plaza area, 790 South
Progress Avenue. The facility does contain nearly 9,000 square feet of indoor space for
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exhibits and approximately 5,000 square feet of outdoor exhibit space, which is now
fully fenced. It also includes almost an acre and a half of parking, which includes plenty
of space for bus bays to get in, turn around, access the facility and we -- because of
where we are we have excellent visibility from the freeway. There is two signs on the
freeway. It's easy on and off of that Meridian exit. So, we are preparing to open up in
this facility. Like I mentioned, we have outdoor exhibit space that will be seasonal and
will change, develop, depending on programming and the other art exhibits. This is just
a mural created by Sector 17. They are going to create three murals similar to this one.
The current exhibits that we are putting in is -- the theme is a Journey Through Time,
which is captured really beautifully in this mural and you will notice the train in the front
and, then, there between finished that rocket there in the back. So, this is one of the
forefront pieces that you see when you walk into our train exhibit. We, like I mentioned
earlier, are focusing on purposeful play and hands on experiences. So, each one of our
exhibits will feature an educational guide that will be posted on the wall in the facility,
that will provide a guide to the parents on how to really instruct their child in learning to
that exhibit. The goal really is that the parents, grandparents, adult sibling or whatever
that familial relationship is with that adult, become the teacher in the facility and help
harbor that love of learning and that hands-on experience. So, educational guides will
be posted in each facility and we will also be sending children home with a guide as
well, so they can continue the learning at home with their adults and so some examples
of our exhibits are going to be a dinosaur dig, cave and mountains, which we start on
our cave next week. It's very exciting. A pirate ship will feature here load, cargo, flags,
maps and murals. A frontier, which will have wagons and supplies, a teepee, canoe and
a log cabin and you actually have an item on your agenda a little bit later on about that
frontier exhibit. We are going to have a farm-to-fork exhibit and really teach children
where their food comes from and the value of our agricultural history in this area. We
will feature a city which will have a bank and a grocery store, a cafe, a dentist,
veterinary clinic and a construction site. We will have a maker space, which will be a
really wonderful hands-on way for kids to get to kind of create their own experience.
For some of our lower income children, having the opportunity to play with
manipulatives where the goal is just to create out of imaginary play, without any goal of,
you know -- or worrying about breaking something or maybe there is access to
materials that they wouldn't regularly have access to. So, it's truly about featuring
imagination. We will have an outside imagination playground, which has soft blocks.
So, it's just, again, open ended free play. A toddler town that will be fully staffed to help
our youngest visitors with sensory interactive toys. A train exhibit, which this mural is in.
An airport with a sitting cockpit, a load luggage, maps and weather station and, then, a
space exhibit with a sit-in space shuttle that has controls and satellite and planet
models. Things that you need to know. Right now our memberships are on sale and
they are on sale on our website. We have day memberships, as well as annual
memberships and, then, also punch cards, which are great going -- going to be great for
maybe daycare facilities, things like that. We have some community events coming up.
We will be participating in Meridian's trunk or treat, the Winter Lights Parade and the
Winterland Festival. So, if you're attending any of those facilities -- those events stop by
and see us. We will be hosting two to three soft openings in October specifically for our
members, donors, and invited guests, with our grand opening and ribbon cutting at 1:00
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p.m. on December 1st, which is amazing news and it is one of those things that when
we think that will be just over three years from when the very first focus group sat and
we sat and we met in City Hall with this -- this kind of being a dream and so we are
beyond thankful to be here three years later getting ready to open right in our downtown
core. We are on Facebook and Instagram. Those are our handles. So, I would
advocate everybody to get out and like us and follow us, so you can stay up to date as
to what is happening. We have events all the time and we post photos regularly. As we
gain sponsors that information is posted and it's made live, so get out and see what we
are doing, get your families excited about it, be excited about it and stop by and look at
our website and it will include the information that you want to know about
memberships, possibly participating in field trips, our hours of operation and, then, the
ways that we are going to be focusing on low sensory hours for families who might be
on the autism spectrum and if you have heard me present, I always end with a gratitude
slide. So, I'm going to do that tonight, because that's just what I do. So, I want to say
thank you to Meridian in general. Our community is fantastic. Anytime that we have
asked for help or asked for support we have never once been turned down. The
community as a whole has come out to support us. Thank you to our current and past
board members, which include Hillary Blackstone, Ashley Squyers, Jeanette Sanchez
and Lily Giordano and Woody Sobee. Our advisory boards members, who have hung
in there with us from 2015 until now, some of who are Chad and Andy with Erstad
Architects, Strident Financial, All-American Insurance, Habitat For Humanity, The Rotary
Club, The Optimist Club, The Kiwanis Club. Meridian Development Corporation. The
Meridian Library District. The Meridian Downtown Business Association. The school
district. Patricia Kempthorne and so many others. Sector 17 for our gorgeous artwork.
There will be two other murals that we will begin work in our facility. So, you will want to
come by. Pat, our executive director, virtually lives at the museum. So, if you get
curious and want to see some of that artwork stop by. Wright Brothers and Wright
Construction for continuing to be our champion and partner. Showso Design for the
fabrication of our rocket, airplane, and spaceship. You guys, our current and former city
council, I want to make sure to say thank you to Councilman Bird who -- I do this every
time. There is a reason I don't do this very often, because I always get emotional. But
Keith has always been a champion of Meridian's youth and of this project. Sorry. You
would think I would get better. I don't. Okay. City staff. So, we have Caleb Hood and
Bill Parsons and the entire team with the building department. The speed at which
things are being approved by city staff is off the charts. Our architect and the team that
we are working with always says very positive things about their interaction with city
staff and how kind the city staff has been and, then, the countless sponsors, donors and
community partners that we have. They are all posted on our website. I was going to
list them, but I feel like I have taken up a lot of your time anyway. So, hop on the
website and look at them. And, then, most of all thank you to Pat Baker, who had a love
for community and continues to have a love for community and who is here, if you
would like to meet her, and she's happy to stand for questions and I'm happy to stand
for questions. Get excited about this. It's -- it is exciting. It is going to be another
destination for Meridian. But this is something that's truly going to put Meridian on the
map and make us unique in the state of Idaho. It's going to be unique in this area of the
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country and we really are grateful for all of the support that we have received from you
and from the city. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jacy. And, Pat, do you have anything you want to add? Thank
you. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Not a question, just a quick comment. Ms. Jones presented to the Meridian
Kiwanis Club a few weeks ago and the enthusiasm in the room for this project was
infectious and I think it just speaks to your involvement. When you get excited about
something people just need to get out of your way, because it's going to happen one
way or another.
Jones: Thank you.
Cavener: Your work on HPC, your work on this. Jacy and I have had a chance to talk.
When this first was presented I was somewhat skeptical and I have been really happy to
be proven wrong time and time again from you on this. My son gets his hair cut over
there and so we do status updates each time that we go over there and get our -- our --
our haircuts. So, really looking forward to seeing the final product. Thank you for
coming and giving us an update. Keep up the great work. This is really remarkable.
Jones: Thank you, Councilman. I appreciate that.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: What a fantastic presentation, Jacy. You held my interest the entire time, which
is saying a lot for me, because I'm ADD a little. You look fabulous.
Jones: Thank you.
Milam: But that's not my question. Can you tell me a little bit about the rates for
membership or -- and do you have a program that you're talking about, maybe some
lower income individuals and what you have to offer for them?
Jones: Yeah. Absolutely. It's a great question. So, daily membership rates are eight
dollars and that's for adults and children. It begins at two years of all -- two years of
age, because that's when our programming begins. So, two years and up you will pay
eight dollars and that's whether you're the mom and dad or whether you're the child.
We do offer a pass EBT card holders and those are those participating in the school
nutritional assistance program for our low income families and that's three dollars for the
day rate. What's I think awesome about our day rate is it is for the day. So, if you come
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in the morning -- and like most little kiddos need a nap and some lunch and a break,
you can go home and get a hand stamp and, then, come back in the afternoon. So, we
would encourage you to take advantage of the whole day. It's one of those things to
truly get the benefit of the museum you don't want to spend just two or three minutes
and, then exit. You really want to immerse yourself and -- and as the parent use the
guides and -- and really nurture your child's learning experience. So, that's available.
And, then, an annual membership right now is 85 dollars and that is for an adult and
one child and, then, you can add additional children or family members for 25 dollars.
So, 85 dollars gets you all year and begins on your first visit. So, if you buy it today that
doesn't start today. If you are a grandparent and you want to get it for your kiddos, you
know, or grandchildren maybe for Christmas and they don't visit until Christmas break,
that's when that year begins and they will get the full 12 months out of that. Thank you.
Very good question. Thank you.
De Weerd: And you have sponsorships available.
Jones: We do have sponsorships available. I did, I brought my list. So, we are still
seeking sponsorships for a variety of exhibits. Currently we need a sponsorship for our
pirate ship. So, what -- what is happening with what -- with these is these are being
ordered, they are being fabricated and they are coming out of our operational costs and,
then, so the hope is, then, to get sponsorships, essentially, to reimburse us, so that we
can use our operational funds for operations. So, the pirate ship, the cave, the airport,
our space exhibit, farm-to-fork exhibit. We had an interesting development with our
Maker Space today, so that one might be taken. Our dinosaur dig. Our imagination
playground. Our trains exhibit. And, then, the learning guides themselves, which I think
we might have a partnership for as well. So, that being said, we have all kinds of
sponsorships. So, if how you want to sponsor is maybe you come in and donate your
time, we want to talk to you. If that's how you can give, we want you to be a part. So,
you know, if 20,000 dollars isn't in your budget, but maybe a five dollar monthly charge
is, we want to talk to you. So, it is something that we want the city for and by the
community and if you have a heart for our youth and education and you want to be
involved, we can get you involved. So, all of the information, how to reach out to us, is
on our social media and on our website.
De Weerd: And just a special note. It's a big facility. It may not look like it from the
curb, but it's big inside and there is opportunities for parties?
Jones: There is. Yes . We will be hosting birthday parties. As Mayor Tammy said, it is
a large facility. You don't know from driving by, but it has a second floor that has office
space, which is pretty wonderful. It has a wall of windows, so staff will be able to sit in
their offices and see the entire facility and as we have taken down walls it's become a
very open space. But, yeah, there is a community room, which has an expansion wall
so you can rent the facility to do a birthday party. With our birthday party rates you will
get a member of our staff to come in and help you, you know, write the letter for the
thank you notes and handout cake and help with some of the programming, things like
that, and we are still talking about corporate parties as well. So, as we make decisions
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and policies -- we are sort of in the early phase of that, we will be posting everything
on the website. But, yeah, birthday parties in 2019 just got a lot more fun in Meridian.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: One more thing. One, thanks for letting me know about the membership. I
signed up.
Jones: Thank you.
Cavener: Super easy for all of you. I know we try and pay attention, but I knew that I
would forget about it, we have got a long meeting ahead of us --
Jones: Appreciate that.
Cavener: -- and thank you for that plug. And, two, I just think it's great to see the
utilization of that space. As some of you know, I -- I was a bartender at Tony Roma's
some ten years ago when that place opened up and it's nice to see something really
exciting happening in that space that's that big and for far too long. So, a great find and
a great utilization of space.
Jones: Appreciate that. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jacy, and thank you, Pat. You are an amazing woman. And so
are you.
Jones: Thank you.
De Weerd: And so is your daughter. I haven't seen Charlotte forever.
Jones: She's growing too fast. Thank you all.
Bernt: Good to meet you.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Professional Services Agreement between Children's Museum
of Idaho and City of Meridian Not to Exceed $7,500
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-A, under Action Items, we have a professional services
agreement. Hi, Josh.
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Evarts: How are we doing tonight?
De Weerd: I don't recognize you without --
Evarts: I know. It's frightening. I don't recognize myself. Madam Mayor, City Council
Members, I'm here tonight to review a Action Item for you on behalf of Blaine, our
historic preservation commissioner. I am Josh Evarts, our vice-president for the Historic
Preservation Commission. So, kind of what I want to go through tonight on the heels of
what Jacy just covered was a decision on approval of funds that we had made as a
commission during our last meeting. So, to start with we have also been on this journey
for three years. So, we have been getting regular updates, Star Commission on this
museum project from their steering committee. So, for three years we have been
hearing these updates. That all got ramped up this year with the engagement with Pat
Baker in March and those became monthly updates as to what's going on. So, as a
commission we have been talking for three years about how do we get involved in this.
How do we support this as a city and what we really looked at is as the vision matured
we were trying to figure out, then, how do we play a role, but it wasn't really appropriate
for us to really step in until we saw execution, that we really felt as a commission that
we are stewards, just like you guys are, of public resources and we needed to see an
execution plan that was in place so we could really get behind. So, some data points
before I talk about kind of what our decision was is we reviewed the comp plan, as well
as some of our historic preservation goals. So, I want to read a couple of those to you
to kind of inform where we got to in our decision. So, for our historic preservation plan,
goal number three is to heighten public awareness of historic preservation in the
community and improve preservation education efforts for various audiences. We felt
like this was definitely -- the Children's Museum was directed at an audience that we
think is crucial, that if we look at those formative years of two to eight years old, this was
a great opportunity to make the introduction of our history and -- and -- and who we are
as a city. As we looked at the citywide Comprehensive Plan there were a number of
items that we felt were addressed through this initiative. One is to develop programs
with the Meridian Development Corp, who was a part of this very early on and continues
to support it, to encourage and support development of arts, culture and educational
facilities in our Old Town. Secondly, to undertake programs that will increase the
community's awareness of its heritage and the economic, as well as the aesthetic value
of historic preservation. To encourage events and activities that celebrate the cultural
heritage of Meridian. And, lastly, to develop indoor-outdoor multiple use facilities,
recreation centers, fair grounds for a variety of recreational, educational, cultural and
sports purposes and, obviously, as a historic preservation commission we have a very
meager budget, so the ability to develop facilities is simply just way outside of our
purview and our ability to do those things. So, as we started looking at the sponsorship
opportunities, we felt it was appropriate to support the frontier exhibit, which Jacy talked
about, which is a wagon and supplies, tepees, building a teepee, which I want to do and
I do want to have my birthday there. The resident buffalo, animal pelts, log cabin and
the total cost of that was 20,000, which was outside of what we would be able to do as a
commission and we also like the idea of the public and private funding leading, that
there is a role for us to play as a city to help things, but it's not our job to pay for
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everything. So, we felt that 75 hundred dollars was -- yeah, so we thought that would
be an appropriate contribution to this project and in the scope of things that's one-third
of that 20,000 dollar exhibit, but the bigger number that Jacy and I were talking about
tonight is the two year operations budget, as well as exhibits, is almost a half a million.
So, our contribution is just very small, you know, it's only one and a half percent of that
overall two years and felt it was very appropriate, given that we are estimating 70,000
visitors being able to go through on an annual basis. So -- I'm so sorry. So, that's it.
We thought it was appropriate and if you have any questions I will try to rein it in and
answer them.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I feel that every time the HPC is before us I see it over and over you guys are
a commission of doers and it's really great to see kind of the evolution of this
commission. Appreciate you bringing this before us. I do have some questions I'm
hoping to get some clarification on, so --
Evarts: Yeah.
Cavener: -- you used the word sponsorship and so to me in my world sponsorship is
like an annual type of financial request and the dollars -- I know that in the past that the
Council has increased as a result of your great work was to fund kind of permanent
things, like the app and stuff like that and so this to me doesn't appear to be that it's
permanent. Can you provide --
Evarts: It's a one time. Yeah. Seventy-five hundred dollars is -- is a one time to put the
exhibit in place and, then, they have an operating budget that maintains that and takes
care of that in the out years.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up. Has it been contemplated, then, that HPC will
come back on an annual basis and ask for additional requests or have you guys
committed to -- if the city were to make these funds, it's a one time --
Evarts: We have told them that this is a one time contribution that we thought was
appropriate right now. So, there wouldn't be any expectation on our part that -- that -- or
their part that this was some kind of annual support thing from us.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, one more. Josh, if I'm -- if I'm correct is this a hundred
percent of your guys' kind of operating budget for the rest of the year?
Evarts: No. No. It's our budget -- Mr. Nary, I'm trying to remember, is it 18,000, 17,000,
something like that? So, it is a big portion. It's probably about 40 percent of our budget.
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But it's not -- it's not the whole budget. We do a lot of supportive of Meridian Historical
Society, as well as other things.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, sorry, one more. And maybe this is a question for -- for Bill.
Is this request designated to come out of the 2018 budget or is that part of --
Evarts: It's 2018. It's this year.
Cavener: -- 2019 fiscal year?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Cavener, it's for the FY-18
budget. I did speak with Finance to help answer a little more of your question. The city
does do sponsorship types of things on occasion, but our CFO isn't very comfortable
with that, because the implication of sponsorship is a continuing obligation. So, if you
read the agreement it's just referred to as a contribution. It was originally presented as
a -- related specifically to one exhibit, but he was more comfortable in saying the city is
going to contribute to this under what -- what Commissioner Evarts talked about as a
contribution and didn't feel it had to be tied to the specific exhibit.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. And that's how I understood it, but when I heard the word
sponsorship I just -- I wanted to make sure that we -- we are being clear that should this
be what the Council decides to approve, it's a one time deal, not something we are
committing to multi years.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Awesome job, Josh. You know, I have never -- it's been a long time since we felt
so much love in this -- in this -- in this room. It's been great. It's been great to see the
passion and the excitement you guys have to get involved with the kiddos. I mean I
don't think that there is enough money that can be spent on the kiddos and so I think
this is a great use of your funds. You guys are the professionals. It's your budget. If
you feel like this is what you want to use, then, you have my support one hundred
percent.
Evarts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions or comments?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Cavener: Oh.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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Cavener: I think Council Member Palmer is reaching for the mike.
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, I struggle anytime, really, you know, when we are spending city dollars.
It's always a hard thing for me to just say, yes, let's do and, you know, with Boise, too,
my family has an annual pass there. I anticipate we would likely do the same here.
But, you know, while it is only to provide this specific exhibit, we do have to consider
that it is the entire -- it equates to 15 families in Meridian, their entire Meridian city
portion of their property taxes. So, just thinking about it that way, I struggled to tell 15
families we are going to take everything you're paying to the city and put it to this exhibit
and I struggle with the way that we have it set up as a professional services agreement,
because my understanding is that type of agreement is typically used when we are
contracting with somebody to provide a service to the city or -- I guess you could call
this that, but under the scope of services it says in exchange for the city's and HPC's
contribution as set forth herein, the Children's Museum of Idaho shall include the city
and HPC's contribution to the Children's Museum of Idaho with other contributors to the
museum. So, that's the service they are providing, is that we are putting it in with
everybody else's contribution. Not that we are getting a service. I do -- I do like the
idea better of it being -- this is specifically what you're going to do with the money and
having them outline here is how much these materials are going to cost us to build this.
Here is how much of this exhibit is going to be constructed for 7,500 dollars per this
schedule of costs, rather than, you know, an arbitrary number of 7,500 to get most of an
exhibit or the entire exhibit, I don't know, put there. So, I love the idea. Again, you
know, my family -- I'm sure we will buy an annual pass, but I don't know that this is the
most appropriate use of tax dollars, given that we did increase tax -- everyone's tax rate.
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Josh, thank you so much. I was -- since I work with the
preservation commission I had the privilege of being there for the very passionate
discussion regarding these funds and so they were very, very diligent, they all have a
great passion for it, but they also have a passion for what they do and why they sit on
the commission and so they were very careful to make sure that the funds that -- of
what they needed to accomplish for this year they have had some great opportunities
for doing some very wonderful things at a much reduced rate and so there was an
opportunity there to -- to go ahead and, Josh, I don't mean to overstep here, but I -- just
because I was able to just kind of sit there and listen to them and how they vetted this
out, I think it's a very thoughtful one time opportunity -- not to say it won't ever come
again, but I just feel like they have really vetted it out well and would really -- would love
to see this come to fruition and -- although it is tiny in the scheme of things, but they are
part of the Children's Museum. I think it's a really wonderful thing to do.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further discussion? I would love to -- to share my thoughts,
but I'm on the board, so I'm trying to be unbiased.
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Evarts: Thank you.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: If there's no further discussion, I would like to move that we go ahead
and approve the professional services agreement between the Children's Museum of
Idaho and the City of Meridian, not to exceed 7,500 dollars.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
B. Resolution No. 18-2102: A Resolution Re-Appointing Mark
Nelson to Seat 2 of the Solid Waste Advisory Commission
De Weerd: Thank you for the presentation and -- from both our HPC and the Children's
Museum. Okay. Item 9-B is Resolution 18-2102. This is a reappointment of Mark
Nelson on our Solid Waste Advisory Commission. Mark was appointed to fulfill a seat
from someone that had stepped down and this is reappointing him to continue that
service.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve Resolution No. 18-2102, reappointing Mark Nelson to
seat two of the Solid Waste Advisory Commission.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. If there is no discussion, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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C. Fuller Park Agreement with Western Ada Recreation
District (WARD )
De Weerd: Item 9-C is a discussion about the Fuller Park agreement with Western Ada
Recreation District. So, I will turn this over to Shaun. Welcome, Shaun.
Wardle: Thank you. Madam Chair, Members of the Council, Shaun Wardle, chairman
of the Western Ada Recreation District. Western Ada Recreation District was formed to
build the Meridian community pool, which it did in the 1980s and continues to operate
that facility. It also, then, acquired Fuller Park, named for a former mayor of Meridian
and the park is home to a number of great events, including in 1987 Meridian Little
League Championship, won by the Royals, coached by Mark Haws, with a -- featuring
an all star performance behind the plate, so --
Bernt: By who? From who?
Wardle: So, we are here today to talk about a consolidation in the community. We
have been having this conversation a number of times. I was here before you to talk
about the City of Meridian taking over operations of both the pool and the park, which
are WARD's major assets. The direction that we heard from -- from this body was work
with the Parks Department to find some specific answers to our questions, as well as
get a specific direction, and so I'm here today to present to you some options that we
have. You have in front you a memo from Parks Director Steve Siddoway and he is
going to talk right after me. One of the things that we talked about is the city will buy --
as you know, we had our our legal counsel review can -- can WARD do this for
consideration and so we are anticipating that the park will be committed, as well as
WARD will receive 1,000 dollars from -- from the city. The city, then, will do some
environmental inspections. Our closing is anticipated for October 1st, 2019. The PSA --
we have talked about the reason -- or the reasons that we are -- we are working on this
is to reduce the budget for the Western Ada Recreation District. We had some specific
questions on what that means for the taxpayers and so given that specific question, if
we are -- if the Western Ada Recreation District were to, in future years, reduced their
budget by the 276,000 dollars, which it currently takes to operate in a year, taxpayers
would save $2.50 per 100,000 dollars of taxable value. In addition to that, we came up
with an agreement by -- where the Western Ada Recreation District could still be
involved for the fiscal year 2019 since, we have already approved our budget and so we
are anticipating that we would enter into an agreement by which the city would begin
operating at the beginning of that fiscal year and the Western Ada Recreation District
would contribute financially to that arrangement and so you have got that in your packet
as well. And, then, again, closing on October 1st, 2019. So, those are the highlights.
Steve, you want to come up and, then, I will stand for questions after. Thank you.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, pleased to be before you tonight
and just report back that we were -- we were before you a few months ago and the
direction was to try and get together and find a way to see if we could make this transfer
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work. Some of our initial efforts to look at, you know, transferring ownership this
October 1 ran into some challenges, but we put on our creative hats and we have what -
- what we would propose before you as a potential path forward for the transfer of Fuller
Park. As was mentioned, the actual ownership transfer would happen about a year
from now, but we would enter -- starting October 1 of this year in an operations
agreement where we would take over, starting with this next fiscal year, and the -- the
maintenance, operations, programming and management of the park, in exchange for
WARD's payment to the city of their budget for the park of this fiscal year, which is
276,000. It was mentioned that the city would propose to purchase it for the -- the
thousand dollars. We would have a period of time for that diligence. The draft that you
have before you I think suggests six months. We heard back that you would like that
done sooner. So, we probably will be able to work that out before the end of this
calendar year and, then, in the next 90 days. Shaun's already talked about WARD's
commitment to reduce their budget. One of the things that works well about this is the
restroom project that's underway there. By WARD continuing to own the park, they
would continue to be able to close out that project and the warranty period over the next
year could be -- have them involved, which we would want and need. The agreement
also does anticipate WARD agreeing to the city's use of all their maintenance
equipment out at the park. Vehicles, equipment, et cetera, that we would use that
starting with this new fiscal year and the next item on the agenda would be the budget
amendment that we would need for -- to -- to get ready for those planned operations of
the park. We have talked before about possible needed capital improvements out
there. The amendment before you would not cover all of those, but it would be enough
to match the payment from WARD, so that it is a net zero budget amendment and allow
us to -- to move forward and assess what the real needs are out there. So, with that I
will stand for questions or turn the microphone back to Shaun.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: One for either Steve or Bill. So, the -- the agreement calls for a date I think of
September 30th. Mr. Wardle referenced the date of October 1st. Somewhat
challenging in terms of I guess budget process and I'm just curious what date are we
going to be operating with it and is it that we do it on October 1st and we plan for it in
next year's budget process or September 30th as laid out in the agreement and you
guys would bring a budget amendment.
Siddoway: For the operations agreement portion, the intent would have it be an FY-19
budget amendment to take over October 1st. So, we would be asking for approval
tonight of that amendment, but it does not take effect until October 1.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Steve, to you and your department and Shaun, to you and your organization,
my sincerest gratitude in finding a way to make this all happen and -- and be able to
provide this service to the taxpayers and I'm -- despite the roundabout way to get there,
I'm incredibly excited to have a chance during my one and only term to have been
participating in a tax reduction. It's kind of a Christmas miracle in this building and I'm
crazy excited about it. Hope we find a way in the next year and a half to do it again
somehow, but thank you for your diligent work to -- pieces around to make this work the
way that it will.
Siddoway: Okay. Thank you.
Wardle: Thank you very much. Just a procedural item. The Western Ada Recreation
District has not approved this agreement. It is on our agenda for Thursday -- this
Thursday at noon and so we would anticipate approving the agreement at that meeting.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To that point in the next week we will probably see final agreements on our
agenda for approval. Most likely on the 27th, so -- perhaps.
Siddoway: Mr. Nary can weigh in, but one way that we could see this moving forward is
taking any final direction from you tonight, since we don't have a -- a final draft before
you that's been approved. We could make any final tweaks and changes over the next
36 hours and get those in front of the -- the board and, then, bring it back on your
Consent Agenda and then -- unless there is a desire for an additional presentation, but
we could have that back on the agenda for next week after WARD approves it.
De Weerd: Does that sound reasonable?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Wardle, when you got up you talked a little bit about kind of plans related
to the pool and maybe you can provide this Council with any update. Is -- is there a
desire and an openness or a willingness from WARD to maybe go through a similar
exercise over the next year related to the pool?
Wardle: The answer to that is yes and I would be remiss if I did not mention that the
consensus of the board on this particular item was a little bit -- a little bit split and we --
we ultimately felt that this is a way to move forward and towards that, for this city to see
some economies of scale to make best use of the resources, but we would like to
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continue to have the conversation involving the -- the aquatic component of this. So, I --
I personally see this as step one and if there can be some efficiencies or even an
increase in service to the community of Meridian, I definitely would like to see that.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: As a 1981 third place champion in the city swim meet I would encourage those
conversations to continue as well. Soft spot in my heart.
Wardle: Third place champion.
Borton: That's what I called it. I was just a kid.
De Weerd: You finished the race. That's important.
Borton: Thanks. Appreciate that support. Madam Mayor, a couple of instructive
questions or comments and hats off to you and your board and Mr. Freeman for
creating a solution that does exactly what Councilman Palmer says, it's a tax savings.
It's a net efficiency for our community. The -- the agreement that you will have
Thursday to review, it will include the -- the restroom completion will be done at WARD's
expense during that -- this upcoming fiscal year prior to title transferring.
Wardle: Correct. And we anticipated to have that done. We have -- we have seen a
number of setbacks just based on some -- some construction issues and so we -- we
are committed to finishing that. It is currently planned for in our current budget year
paid for and we will warranty that over the course of the year as well.
Borton: And the equipment list is also included as part of the assets that are all
acquired? That title transfer is end of -- or September 30th of '19 as well, along with the
real property?
Wardle: Correct. And I -- we haven't heard that the Parks Department didn't want any
-- okay. We should be good.
Borton: Great. Thank you.
De Weerd: No further questions? Any other questions? So, we will move to the
discussion under the budget amendment and, Steve, do you have additional comment?
Siddoway: I will make it brief, because it was basically just presented, but you have
before you a proposed FY-19 budget amendment that will match the 276,000 dollar
payment from WARD. This will allow us to feed our planning to take this over October 1
and, as I mentioned, the amount for the capital have been adjusted to make it a net
zero, that payment coming from WARD and I will stand for any questions.
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De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess one question for Steve. Mr. Wardle talked about WARD's willingness
to explore kind of going to more process with the pool that we went through with the
park. Do you feel like you and your staff are equipped to be able to go through kind of a
similar evaluation process like you went through with Fuller Park?
Siddoway: We can certainly go through an evaluation process.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions or comments?
D. Budget Amendment for Fuller Park Operating and Capital Not
to Exceed $276,000
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we approve the budget amendment for Fuller Park operating capital
not to exceed 276,000 dollars.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Just to note for the record that this budget
amendment is for the 2019 budget year. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Council Member Milam?
Milam: Madam Mayor? Sorry. So, we are approving an amendment before we
approve the contract, which seems a little odd unless we have some language in there
that, obviously, is specifically related to approval of the final contract.
De Weerd: I think you could make it contingent upon the signing of the final contract. I
think the reason you have the budget amendment tonight is to have authority to post job
openings.
Milam: Madam Mayor? And I'm not against it, obviously, I just wanted to be clear on
this. The intent.
De Weerd: That's implied by the motion and that it's not good until the 2019 budget
year.
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Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thanks, Mark. Thanks, Shaun. Thanks, Steve. Okay. We are going into
our land use part of our Action Items. There is a description in the agenda that talks
about our -- our public hearing process. Just to walk you through it, we will ask for staff
comments on each of these agenda items prior to asking the applicant to present. They
will present their -- their evaluation of the -- the application and what happened at our
Planning and Zoning meeting, followed by the applicant that you will have up to 15
minutes to talk about the application and give any additional information. Public
testimony than follows that and we ask that the comments are limited to three minutes
each and there is a timer on the -- the screen that is at the podium, so you can kind of
see how much time is -- is left. The application -- or the applicant always has the final
word and, then, staff or Council will ask questions of any of those that testify and the
applicant or -- and have discussion and I do think it's important to note that there is a
very healthy public record on many of these applications that Council in advance had an
opportunity to review, which is part of the consideration on the action that they take.
E. Public Hearing for Howry Lane Subdivision No. 1 H-2018-0063
by M3 Companies, LLC , Located at 12855 W. Auckland St.
1. Request: Vacation of the northwesterly 5 feet of the 10 foot
wide public utility easement on the southeasterly boundary
of Lot 3, Block 4
De Weerd: So, with that said, I will ask for -- to open the public hearing on Item 9-E,
which is H-2018-0063. I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the application before you is a request
for a vacation. This site is located at 12855 West Auckland Street and is zoned R-8.
The final plat depicting the portion of the easement proposed to be vacated was
recorded in 2017. The applicant is requesting approval to vacate the northwesterly five
feet of the existing ten foot wide public utilities on the southeasterly boundary of Lot 3,
Block 4, Howry Lane Subdivision No. 1. There are no existing utilities within the portion
proposed to be vacated. The easement holders have all submitted written consent
agreeing to vacate a portion of the existing easement as proposed. The applicant
states that during design of the product a pressurized irrigation line was to be located in
the easement. The line has since been relocated and the ten foot wide easement width
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is no longer necessary. In order to provide more floor plan options, the applicant
requests approval to vacate a portion of the easement as proposed. Written testimony
has been received from Kristi Watkins, JUB Engineers, which is the applicant's
representative, and she is in agreement with the staff report. Staff is recommending
approval.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Is the applicant here? Good
evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Shrief: Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. Wendy Shrief with JUB Engineers
and my business address is 250 Beachwood Avenue in Boise, Idaho. Again, we are in
agreement with the staff report. This is a pretty simple vacation of an easement. We
have written notification and -- that the utility providers are amenable to this reduction.
We have an existing ten foot easement. We are just requesting to reduce that down to
five feet. So, any questions? And, hopefully, have this finished this evening. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, is there anyone signed up under this item?
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We did have one sign up for this item. Marion
Taylor, signified against, but no indication of testimony.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this item?
Okay.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Move we close the public hearing on H-2018-0063.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move we approve H-2018-0063.
Little Roberts: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-E. Is there any discussion
on this motion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
F. Public Hearing for Whitecliffe Estates Subdivision (H-2018-
0074) by 4345 Linder Road, LLC Located at 943 W. McMillan
Rd.
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 40.6 Acres of Land to
the R-4 Zoning District; and
2. Request: Preliminary Plat Consisting of 128 Single Family
Residential Lots and 10 Common Lots on Approximately
40.6 Acres of Land in the Proposed R-4 Zoning District
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-F is a public hearing on H-2018-0074. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments.
Beach: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm just initially showing
you the general location of this. Near the intersection of Ustick and Linder -- or, excuse
me, McMillan and Linder. So, this is a -- the property consists of 40.6 acres of land. Go
back to the PowerPoint. Currently zoned RUT within Ada county, located at 943 West
McMillan Road. There is no current history with the city on this property.
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is medium density residential and
office. The applicant is requesting to be -- to be annexed to the R-4 zoning district, as
you see on the zoning map in front of you the majority of the property around this is
zoned R-8, with the exception of an office park directly to the east. The proposed plat,
as I will show you here, consists of 128 building lots and ten common lots and, as I said,
40.6 acres of land in a proposed R-4 zoning district. The property is proposed to
develop in three phases. The gross density of the subdivision is 3.15 dwelling units per
acre. A m inimum lot size of 8,000 square feet and an average of 9,178 square feet.
There -- there is an existing residence and associated structures that the applicant is
proposing to remove from property as part of the project and the applicant will remove
the structures prior to the first -- first approval of the first final plat. Access. The
applicant is requesting to -- an exemption from Council to allow for direct access to
West McMillan Road. The applicant is also proposing to provide access from the
extension of four other stub streets to the surrounding subdivisions. There are two
common driveways proposed for the development and required to be constructed in
accord with the UDC. A 25 foot landscape buffer is required along McMillan Road,
which is considered an arterial. The applicant is also providing a ten foot compacted
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gravel shoulder from the edge of pavement along McMillan Road to landscape the
remainder with lawn and vegetative ground cover. In order to link subdivisions together
staff is of the opinion that a micro path lot should be included in the plat to connect to
the Cobblefield Crossing Subdivision, which is to the west. The micro path lot should be
located between Lots 5 and 6 of Block 6 and the applicant shall coordinate with the
Cobblefield Crossing HOA in order to link up the pathways and subdivisions together.
So, let me go back to the aerial and show you. You can see here on the westhand side
there is a pathway proposed there and the reason staff is recommending that is
because we typically like to join common lots together if at all possible. So, there is a
common lot, again, in the Cobblefield Crossing Subdivision to the west and staff thinks
that if that were connected it would help facilitate -- facilitate connectivity between the
two subdivisions and, again, further to the east and to the south. The Lemp Canal
traverses the north property. Per UDC all irrigation laterals or canals, exclusive natural
waterways and the water base being used as amenities, which intersect, cross, or lie
within an area that's being subdivided shall be covered. The applicant is seeking a
waiver from Council to allow the Lemp Canal to remain untiled due to the size of the
facility and you can see the Lemp Canal would be directly on the north side of the -- of
the project. A minimum of ten percent qualified open space is required per the UDC.
Here is the plat, which is 40.6 acres. A minimum of 4.06 acres of qualified open space
required is provided by -- is required by the UDC. A total of 4.78 acres or 10.05 percent
is being proposed, which consists of half a street buffer along West McMillan Road and
internal common open space areas, which comply with that requirement.
Developments consisting of five acres or more require open space as I said and so this
-- in this case, based on the area of the plat, which is again 40.6 acres, there is a
requirement of two qualified site amenities to be provided. The applicant is proposing to
provide a children's play structure, internal pathways, and a shuffleboard court as
amenities for the subdivision. Proposed amenities -- excuse me. The proposed
building elevations appear to consist of a mix of stone with architectural shingles are
presented here and the applicant is required to comply with the rear and sides of
structures that face the arterial. Incorporate articulation to changes in two or more of
the following: Modulation, bays, porches, balconies, material types or other integrated
architectural elements to break up monotonous wall plains and roof lines and we do this
specifically for arterial roadways. There is some architectural features of the face to add
interest. Commission did recommend approval. The applicant was in favor. Becky
McKay was in favor. Jody McMillan was the only commenter and she was also in
opposition. Written testimony was received by Richard Kepler. Bill Parsons presented
the staff report at the Planning and Zoning Commission. There were no other staff
comments. Key issues of public testimony were how the development will contribute to
the overcrowding of the area schools. Key issues of discussion by the Commission
were whether the direct access to McMillan should remain as part of the project and the
appropriateness of connecting a pedestrian pathway to the common lot located in the
subdivision to the west. Commission changes to the -- to staff recommendations were
they modified Condition 1.1.1A1 to read as follows: Prior to City Council hearing the
applicant shall coordinate with the adjacent HOA to see if they are amenable to having a
pathway connection to their common lot. I did receive an e-mail from the applicant that
indicated she had discussed this with that adjacent HOA. I will let her discuss what she
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was able to find out. They also removed Condition 1.1.1A2, 1.1.3A and 1.1.3F and
modify Condition 1.2.1 to read comply with all use and development standards of the R-
4 for zoning district. We had inadvertently required them to comply with the R-8 zoning
district, which is not what they are asking for. The applicant is also requesting direct
access to West McMillan Road, which is an outstanding issue from Council as well, to
leave the Lemp Canal untiled. We did not receive any other written testimony since the
Commission hearing and I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Okay. Seeing none, at this time is the applicant
here? Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
McKay: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Becky McKay with
Engineering Solutions. Business address 1029 North Rosario, Meridian. Madam
Mayor, my condolences go out to you and your family for your loss.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKay: I know it's a tough time. My dad had a stroke a couple weeks ago, so I
understand what you've gone through. Luckily he's improving. I'm here this evening for
Whitecliffe Estates. As Josh indicated, the property is located just south of McMillan
Road and just east of Linder. It's a 40 acre parcel. However, it is an in-fill parcel. It's
completely developed all the way around it. You have Paramount Subdivision to the
north. Cedar Springs to the east. Cobblefield Crossing to the west and Baldwin Park
No. 6 to the south. All the zoning around us is either R-8 or L-O. There is an office
complex right here. As far as the lot sizes, we have a variety of lot sizes that adjoin us.
They range from 4,000 to 6,000 in Cobblefield and 6,500 square feet in Baldwin Park,
7,800 along Paramount's boundary here on the north side and, then, Cedar Springs we
have about 7,400 to 7,700 square feet. The applicant on this particular project is Todd
Amyx. I have done multiple projects for Mr. Amyx over the past years and also did
projects for his dad. I have worked for that family for 25 years. They -- they do larger
lots and that's why we decided that the R-4 designation was appropriate. As Josh
indicated, our minimum lot size is 8,000 square feet. Our average lot size is around
9,170 square feet. That's basically necessary to accommodate the homes that Mr.
Amyx and his building team construct. They built Decatur Estates, which I think is
called Sawtooth Creek along Linder Road just to the west and Alpine Point, which is
along Eagle Road. In this particular project we did have some challenges. The Settlers
main canal runs parallel with McMillan Road. The canal is -- would require a 72 inch
RCP to pipe it, so it is cost prohibitive to pipe that facility. I did have multiple
discussions with Mack Myers at Settlers Irrigation District as far as what he will allow us
to do. They have concrete lined this section. He's comfortable with a vehicular crossing
right here at McMillan Road and, then, he's indicated that he will allow us to landscape
up to the top of bank with grass and shrubs and sprinklers and, then, we would be able
to install landscaping outside his easement as far as trees are concerned and, then,
fencing. Maintenance for the Settlers main canal is along McMillan Road. So, what I
have done -- I started it was Bridgetower when I did the Bridgetower project where we
worked with Settlers to leave the canal intact. We used like a three foot fence that we
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put at the -- at the edge and, then, we had our sidewalk and that kept the little guys,
bicyclers from going into the canal. Some of the other developments along that
McMillan corridor emulated that. It's worked well and Settlers likes it, because,
obviously, it keeps the small toddlers and bicyclers from accidentally getting into the
waterway, but yet the waterway is visible and accessible and maintainable by the
district. We had some challenges as far as -- this particular site has four stub streets.
One on the south at Baldwin Park, two in Cobblefield and one in Cedar Springs. So, in
my design my primary concern was not to create cut through traffic from any of these
other developments, but, obviously, to augment that interconnectivity and based on the
number of trips that we would generate we did have a traffic study that was done on the
project submitted to ACHD and approved by ACHD. Our particular project will generate
approximately 1,208 vehicle trips per day. So, really, I generate enough trips to warrant
my own access to McMillan Road. ACHD evaluated that from Fox Run to my entrance.
It is in excess of 700 feet. ACHD in their staff report indicated the location of the
proposed main entrance to the subdivision Buckstone Avenue meets district policy and
should be approved. So, we are asking the Council for approval of a waiver for a
primary access to McMillan Road. I do not have any competing approaches across the
street. So, as far as safety purposes this will be operating at a level of service C.
However, I still am making connections to the adjoining developments and when I did
my neighborhood meeting we did have a pretty good turnout from those neighbors.
They were all supportive of the lower density, the larger lots and they liked the fact that
we had our own independent access and their comment to me was if you did not have
your own independent access to McMillan we would really object to the development,
because we don't want to bear the burden of their traffic. My lot sizes range from 8,000
to 17,000, square feet. As you can see here is the -- the parcel right here. This is a
copy of the color rendering. One of the things that we did here is we consolidated our
open space, so our primary open space lot here is 2.44 acres. The Planning and
Zoning Commission commended us on consolidation of our open space, instead of
spreading it out into smaller parcels, because that gives us the ability to construct -- we
will be constructing a -- a lined pond. It will have aerators in it. It will also function for
storage of our 24 hour water right. The McKinney Lateral is piped with a 15 inch pipe,
comes down through Cedar Springs and, then, we will bring it over and that will be our
irrigation feed and our pump station will be located here with an overflow back to the
Settlers main canal. Our amenity -- we have pathways that will be coming through here.
You can see we have micro paths and linkage both to east, west, north and south. We
will have play equipment here, a gazebo, and, then, in the southern part we have a
secondary pocket park that links both north and south into the west. That's .64 acres
and down there we will have a yard shuffleboard court. Let's see. There we go.
Getting excited. That kind of gives you a list. As Josh indicated we have a total of 4.11
acres of eligible open space. We do exceed the ten percent. I have a list here of all of
our amenities that we are proposing. This shows you kind of a blow up of that open
space area and what we are proposing. So, we will have ample area -- lawn area for
kids to play and -- and recreate. Oops. This is the southern portion. As you can see
there is the shuffleboard court and, then, we will have lawn area and micro paths. This
is just a copy of our plat. We -- we are asking for a step down in density, because on
your Comprehensive Plan this is designated medium density residential, three to eight
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dwelling units per acre. I'm at 3.15 on my gross density. So, it is a step down. But as
you can see the homes that are proposed in here do require lots of -- of this depth and
width. Lot sizes range from 70 to 75 feet up and, then, 115 up to like 129 feet in depth.
These are -- are the houses that -- that the builder team likes to build. These are
three car garage. They will be a combination of single story and two story. Here is
another example. One issue that came up in the staff report is they did ask us to
provide a micro path to the west linking the Cobblefield development. I did revise my
landscape plan and my preliminary plat to include that. I contacted AMI, who is the
management company for Cobblefield Estates. I spoke with Annette Asche and she
said that the Cobblefield residents are very protective of their open space, that she
would be surprised if they would allow us to make connection to their private open
space, that some residents had voiced concerns about the fact that this property would
develop in 2019, because their realtors had told them the property wouldn't develop for
at least two to three years guaranteed. And so she said I will take it to the board and I
will bring it up and see what they say. We are not opposed to providing the connection,
it's just -- the problem is they really don't have a micro path. As you can see their
pathway is offset about 20 feet from the boundary. So, what I would do is I would just
stub my micro path and, then, we could get interconnection. In looking at the two stub
streets, if these stub streets did not exist I would say that this micro path would be more
important than it is, but I do have two public street connections to the west, which would
also double as pedestrian access and interconnectivity. This project has more stub
streets than most and we feel that, you know, as far as these neighborhoods, being able
to integrate and -- and connect and converse with each other, we have -- we have done
a great job and, like I said, the street -- the street layouts that I have keep people from
driving straight through and this becoming a -- you know, kind of a de facto collector
roadway. So, I'm in agreement with all the conditions as modified by the Planning and
Zoning Commission. The only exception would be on the micro path. I had a
discussion with Josh earlier and I said, you know, if some language were put in there
that we are encouraged to work with Cobblefield to try to make the micro path
connection happen, we are -- we are comfortable with that. I just can't have a mandate
when I don't control their private open space and they can, obviously, tell me no and I
had that happen at Bellano Creek. I built a micro path to nowhere, because
Bridgetower -- the city required me to build a micro path to the north, so people could
walk to Gino's easily and Bridgetower's HOA denied removal of the fence to connect the
two developments. So, I have a micro path to nowhere. I would rather use those
dollars to put in better play equipment, other amenities, so I guess the two issues that
are critical before you is I'm asking for a waiver, obviously, not to pipe the Settlers
Canal. Secondly, I'm asking for direct vehicular access to McMillan Road, but from a
safety perspective and from what the neighbors wish, I think it makes sense. The
Planning and Zoning Commission was unanimous and was fully supportive of an
independent access and it just really makes it hard for us -- for construction traffic and
for marketability to not have an independent access for a project of this size. If it were
small I could understand it, but being 40 acres I -- it -- it warrants its own -- it generates
enough that that this -- this is a collector. It's over a thousand trips. Can I answer any
questions?
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De Weerd: Thank you, Becky. Council, any questions for the applicant at this time?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Hi, Becky. So, if you don't put in the micro path, what extra amenities are you
prepared to throw in?
McKay: I would say bigger play equipment. They are getting more expensive. Over
time, that's what -- that's what I would propose, that they build even more elaborate play
equipment.
Milam: More elaborate. Okay. Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Becky, what's -- what's your landscape plans around your irrigation pond?
Obviously, I recognize the importance of that. It's close proximity to the -- to the
playground. Always gives me just a little bit of caution about creating an attractive
nuisance for -- for kids to either get into the pond and hurt themselves and I know it
looks like to the north you have got some fencing, but I think that's along your pathway.
So, I'm curious about what -- what your plans are there in terms of landscape or fencing
around the pond.
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, that's a very good question. We placed
the play equipment at the furthest point. We did a similar pond in Decatur or Sawtooth
Creek that we also had a pedestrian pathway that lead over to the middle school. So,
what we ended up doing with that pond was we put in wrought iron fencing, so, one, you
get the aesthetic beauty of the pond, the fountain and aerators, but yet you have that
safety factor. Now, we -- you know, when we do these ponds we do create a safety
shelf in the event that a child does get down there, so it's not a -- you know, just a drop
off that it -- basically the safety shelf goes out for a certain distance and, then, it drops
down. Typically these ponds are six, eight feet in depth, because it's -- this is not in
groundwater if we line it. Getting groundwater in those are like 20 feet deep --
Cavener: Yeah.
McKay: -- but the -- the wrought iron safety fencing worked very well around Decatur,
because I was concerned, it was next to a ped path, that a kid might just, you know, not
be paying attention, go off the path, the bike goes into the pond and we have an
accident. So, that's what we did in that instance.
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Cavener: Madam Mayor? Becky, then, clarification. I don't think that you're
suggesting, but is it your plan to wrap the whole pond in the fencing or just the part that
runs along the pathway?
McKay: We could -- we could do it just along here or just along these edges, because
we will have, you know, fencing here. It would look kind of funny if we had fencing
along the rear of the lots and, then, fencing again on the side of the pond, but we could
do, you know, something like a four foot -- I think we did a four foot wrought iron fencing
at Decatur Estates. So, it's -- the pond is visible and it's safe and -- and the necessity
for the pond is due to the delivery of water through the McKinney Lateral. We are at the
end of the McKinney and so Settlers Irrigation District said you will need to store water
in order to meet peak demand.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions at this point? Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: No questions.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Real quick, Becky. The adjacent developments on McMillan, they haven't tiled
the Lemp Canal either, have they?
McKay: No, sir.
Borton: Yeah.
McKay: It's open. And they -- according to Matt Myers, he allowed them to turf right up
to top of bank on the south side and as far -- I have a 47 foot separate lot and it's 40
feet from my rear of lot to top of bank. So, I would have 40 feet of green space.
Borton: Okay. Couple other questions or comments. If I recall right, the -- the access
to McMillan has accel and decel lanes as part of it.
McKay: Yes . The traffic study -- Madam Mayor and Councilman Borton, apologize.
The traffic study and the ACHD report are asking me to widen McMillan to 17 feet from
centerline, install five foot detached sidewalk on the south side of the Settlers Canal
and, then, I will build a westbound turn lane.
Borton: Are there -- Madam Mayor? Are there the deceleration lanes as well as you
turn into it?
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McKay: Yes. It will be a westbound turn lane. So, it would be a left in. But we will be
widening --
Borton: Yeah.
McKay: -- we will widen McMillan there to 17 feet from center line, which is -- that's I
think for their three lane minor arterial.
Borton: Okay. Madam Mayor. But not a separate decel lane necessarily.
McKay: No. A left turn bay is what that is -- what is warranted.
Borton: Okay. Madam Mayor, less -- it's more of a comment than a question. On the
micro path --
McKay: Yes, sir.
Borton: -- I think it's well intentioned, but it's really problematic. Even if -- even if you
say encouraged and it's built, because an HOA can change their mind and install a
fence five years down the road, it really just seems to invite this community to use the
amenities of a neighboring private community and I have seen those fences go up as
well and it just invites frustrated neighbors on both sides, so --
McKay: Madam Mayor and Councilman Borton -- and that -- that was pretty much what
Annette told me. She said I will take it to the board, but I'm pretty confident the answer
will be no.
Borton: And, Madam Mayor, the concern I have is if they say yes and, then, in 2024 the
board says no and puts up a fence.
McKay: Yeah.
Borton: Right? I mean that's really the risk and now you have got it built. So, it doesn't
make sense to expend the -- the resources in light of that real risk.
McKay: Okay. That's my thought on the pathway.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
McKay: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
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Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Jody McMillan signed up against and wanting to
testify this evening. I don't see Jody. Also Sam and Cindy Dorazio signed up against,
wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Yes, please. You need to -- to come up front. It's all right. We all have our
first. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Dorazio: My name is Cynthia Dorazio and our address is 1249 West Tida Street. That
is right in Cobblestone Crossing and I think where they are suggesting this pathway is
right where our home is I'm pretty sure and when -- we bought our house last year and
we like the idea of our little cul-de-sac and way to the pool and I feel -- I'm against that
being opened up there for other people to go through. Also I -- we are very concerned
about the traffic. We -- when we are coming off of McMillan we go into Zachary Way
and Zachary Way -- there is only two lanes, so there -- I could -- we already got the
apartment complex that's going in. We don't know when that's going to open up. I'm
not sure when. But I can't -- we can't see how that traffic just could be bearable. We
only have a couple ways to get out and one of the main part is McNulty. So, I can't see
how it's even going to be bearable around there. Those apartments -- I think there is
200 and something homes -- apartments going in across the street from the same area
that they are going to be building in. I know I might be a little late for all this, but it's a
big concern about the roads, the traffic. It's -- it's sad to think that they are going to take
that piece and, you know, turn it into another -- I mean it's the traffic. We are very
concerned about the traffic. And that's all I have to say.
De Weerd: Thank you, Cynthia.
Dorazio: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cynthia.
Cavener: Cynthia, would you answer -- would you mind answering a question? Thank
you. First, welcome to Meridian.
Dorazio: Thank you.
Cavener: We are happy to have you here and thanks for coming to our City Council.
Dorazio: Thank you.
Cavener: So, one of the things that I try and look at when I'm looking at these pathways
is to provide opportunities for students to be able to walk or ride their bike to school,
because one of the things that I see that frustrates me is parents who drive their kids to
school who could walk or ride their bike and so you brought up I think two very valid
concerns. One about being concerned about people accessing along that path in your
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cul-de-sac and, then, traffic. So, I'm just curious, from your perspective of somebody
who lives over there, would you rather have more cars going through the streets in your
neighborhood or youth riding their bikes or walking along that pathway to get to school?
Dorazio: Definitely the bikes.
Cavener: Okay.
Dorazio: I don't approve of the whole thing going in there is what I'm saying. The whole
thing.
Cavener: Okay.
Dorazio: It's -- it's too much for that. I don't understand how they can widen McMillan.
There is the canal and, then, there is the new apartments and there is Paramount. I
don't see how they are going to -- does anyone have an answer for me? Becky -- was it
Becky that was just talking -- of how this will be possible for us to be able to get to work
on time without having to leave -- you know, I just don't see --
Cavener: Madam Mayor, just one more. What would you think you -- what would you --
or what would you like to see done with, then, that land? I mean it seems to me it's a
little --
Dorazio: I haven't thought about it yet as far as that. Like I said, I just -- we just moved
in there and liked the idea that that was a nice quiet area there. Of course, things are
going to change, but I would think the roads should be done first. That's how I feel. The
road should be widened before. Otherwise what are we going to be looking at after it's
too late. So, that's my concern.
Cavener: Thanks for being here. I really appreciate your testimony.
De Weerd: Thank you for your comments.
Coles: There were no other signups.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing on item 9-F. Yes, please. Hi, Denise. If you
will, please, state your name and address for the record.
LaFever: My name is Denise LaFever. I live at 6706 North Salvia Way. And my mom
actually lives in Baldwin Park and I spend a lot of time walking around the
neighborhoods with my mom and I, for one, like the fact that this is single family homes.
It's compatible use. It has a good transition of the subdivisions. It has nice size lots
and, yes, I have seen the Sawtooth neighborhood and I thought the quality of the
homes that are being built over there are really nice. I do have one little bit of a
question that -- in Spurwing where I live the irrigation ponds -- the people are confused.
They think it's an amenity and it -- and the level goes up and down. So, the question I
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have is what is going to be done to keep that level so it doesn't go all the way down and
it appears to be a pond. So, you know especially since it's an amenity. But overall I
think it's really nice. The canal -- I have walked up and down that canal. It's beautiful.
Overall it's -- it's a -- I think it's a nice looking job. The one comment that I do have back
on one of those is we are going through that new Comprehensive Plan and a lot of the
feedback that I hear over and over again is about the amount of open space. You know,
I think in some ways the size of lots compensates for the -- the 10.11 percent open
space, but I'm really thrilled to see an R-4 development. So, I think it's great.
De Weerd: Thank you, Denise. Anyone else wish to testify on this application? Okay.
Seeing none, would the applicant like to make additional comment?
McKay: Becky McKay with Engineering Solutions. I would just like to thank Cynthia for,
obviously, helping us understand, you know, as a resident that's right there on our
western boundary what her -- her thoughts are about the pathway and, obviously, you
know, privacy is her number one concern. Concerning the traffic, you know, with our
independent access to McMillan Road, as far as the need to use Zachary Way, which
currently has 417 vehicle trips per day, so it is a local street, you know, we will have our
own independent access. That interconnectivity you do get some traffic back and forth,
but whereas we have our own easy access, I don't see that that's going to put any
undue burden upon them. In the traffic study, based on -- as far as employment
centers, it's estimated that 60 percent of our traffic will go east, 40 percent will go west.
As far as the density, she says she's concerned about the -- you know, the number of
dwelling units. 3.15 is about as low as -- as we can affordably go with the cost for
improvements and for -- as far as the -- the cost of land. And Cobblefield, as far as their
density is concerned, their lots or 4,000 to 6,000 square feet. So, their density has got
to be well up into the fours in order to achieve that. We will be widening McMillan Road.
Her comment was I would like to see the roads widened. We will be widening it. We
will be building turn lanes. We will be building sidewalks. And so I think, you know, we
are doing what we can to mitigate for our impact in this particular area. But I think it's a
good fit, because you have got a lot of R-8 and now you have an R-4 component with
9,000 square foot lots and I think that's what Meridian wants is balance. They don't
want all R-8 or all R-4 or all R-2. We want balance. As far as Ms. LaFever's comment
on the water level in that pond, it will fluctuate, obviously, depending on the delivery.
But the -- during irrigation season we will store that 24 hour water rate -- or water right
and, then, try to keep that pond at a specific level and, then, it will have an overflow to
the Settlers Canal. During the winter months there wouldn't be any water in it, because
the purpose is -- or just a minimal amount, unless we put rainwater into it, which
typically if we line them we do not. So, I mean it's -- it's there for a function, but it also is
there for a passive amenity. We will make sure that in the CC&Rs that it's very clear
that the pond will fluctuate and that its purpose is for storage of irrigation water. Thank
you. And I ask that you approve the project this evening. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Becky. Council, any follow-up questions for the applicant?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: One more. And it goes back to Condition 1.1.1A1 about the -- the pathway
and seeing if the -- if the HOA -- adjacent HOA is amenable to the connection before our
meeting. So, I'm just -- I didn't hear that we have necessarily presented to the HOA
about if they are or if they are not, just that we talked to the HOA management company
and they kind of gave you an estimation.
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, that -- that is correct. We had to go
through their management company and that's typically our point of contact to these
HOAs, because that's what they pay them for, and she said that she knows the board
very well and that she would bring it up, but she was convinced that it was highly
unlikely they would allow us to make that connection. So, all I ask is -- I have -- I have
met the condition that the Planning and Zoning Commission placed upon me that I
needed to contact whoever, you know, was in charge of the HOA, which we did, and
see what their thoughts are on the connection. So, if you want to, you know, change
that language to encourage the applicant to coordinate with the HOA and make that
connection, if possible, I'm comfortable with that. Obviously, we heard from one
resident that they don't want it and she lives right next to it. So, I'm sure, you know, they
are going to listen to the residents over, you know, what we have to say.
Borton: Madam Mayor? Becky, I'm hearing everything you're saying. I guess there is a
difference, though, to me about coming back with an answer from the HOA, as opposed
to have just presented to the HOA manager. So, it puts us in a challenging spot. We
hear from -- from -- from one citizen, we have always heard from you, it doesn't sound
like that you're incredibly supportive of the pathway, but that the request was to come
back from an answer from the HOA. And where we don't have that it's hard for us to
make a decision one way or another on that particular element. Do you see what I'm
saying?
McKay: I understand, but I mean we -- we have to go through these management
companies. That's how we interact, because they pay them. We don't have phone
numbers for board members or access to them. We go to the management companies.
This -- Annette told me she knows the board very well, she knows their feelings, and
she said they are very protective of their open space and she said I'm telling you right
now that don't hold your breath, because I don't see this happening, but she said I will
take it to the board. Now, as far as this pedestrian pathway, it's redundant. We have
two public street connections on the west side. If this were the only opportunity for
pedestrian interconnectivity I would see -- see it as more critical, but this is almost a
redundant connection when you have two public streets, one on the north, one on the
south. I mean where they are -- staff is asking me to put it is over near the home and
their pool, so they don't, obviously, want to encourage our children within our
neighborhood to go to their pool facility. I have been in these battles before between
HOAs, they -- I have never had one open up their arms and go, yes, let's -- let's play
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nice and your kids can use our pool and our kids can use your playground and bring
your dogs over and walk. It's usually the opposite. No way, Jose.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
McKay: So, I know what the answer will be.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I would agree with Councilman Borton on this issue, along with Ms. McKay. I
just think that it's somewhat of a moot point. I just feel like not only is there one street,
there is two, and so if kiddos need to go from one subdivision to the next it's -- it's really
easy to do and schools and friends, play, whatever the case may be -- if there was -- if
there was -- if there was a lack of connectivity to the west I think that this -- this would
be about what it's like and I didn't -- and in this case I just don't think it's -- I would -- I
would -- I would agree with you, Becky, that it's likely not going to be approved and I
guess it's sort of a moot point in my opinion, so I'm in agreement.
McKay: Thank you, sir.
Bernt: Becky. Sorry. One more last question. Madam Mayor. Would you -- would you
-- I don't -- we were talking about a possible fence around the -- the pond area. Would
you be willing to agree to put a fence around it just for safety precaution?
McKay: Absolutely.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Mr. Palmer?
Palmer: I don't know if I have any questions, but quite a few comments. The -- not tiling
the canal, that makes sense. We do that all the time. Obviously, connecting to
McMillan makes the most sense for everybody. When I look at the micro path idea, I
mean the neighbors to the west, I can't think of a scenario in which it would be
advantageous for the neighbors to the west to want to use it to go east and so I can't
figure out why there would be any desire for them to want to connect to it. As it exists --
I'm trying to guess which one the pathway would be in here. It looks like -- it's not really
a big safety concern of, you know, pedestrian safety not having that access to that other
pathway and that kids or anybody else would only have to pass one, two, three, four,
five houses one way or the other worth of being on a sidewalk adjacent to a local street.
So, I don't see it as -- as a huge gain in pedestrian safety. When it comes to fencing the
canal, the city itself, we build canal -- we build ponds in our parks -- not always probably
right next or within that same distance from play sets, but we also build pathways along
extremely dangerous canals that we are encouraging families and children to use. So, I
think the -- the safety level of -- of what the city builds next to canals is far more
dangerous than the -- the stagnant, but aerated irrigation pond that's proposed here.
So, I don't know that the fence would be necessary. She's expressed a willingness to
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build it. I think if I lived there I would rather not have a fence blocking the view of the
potential amenity there. So, I'm in favor of it without -- or with those comments in mind.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any further questions for the applicant? If not, I would
entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-F.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on 9-F. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we approve H-2018-0074, waving the requirement to tile the canal,
providing the waiver or whatever it would be necessary to be able to make the
connection to McMillan. Removing the requirement to construct the micropath
discussed on the west side and not requiring the fencing of the irrigation pond.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just real brief. I'm supportive of -- of the motion. I think that ultimately we
should let that adjacent neighborhood make the decision they want. I appreciate staff's
recommendation. I think it's the right recommendation. That said, I think this is a great
development. A pathway is not the hill that I want to die on this evening. Personally, I
really discourage looking at water retention ponds as amenities. I think they sometimes
create more nuisances than value they provide to the community. Again, what I see
here I think is a good piece of in-fill development that will serve that area well, provide
that pathway connectivity along McMillan for everybody. So, I'm supportive of the
motion. Thought it was important to share some of my thoughts.
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De Weerd: Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
G. Public Hearing Continued from July 17, 2018 for Timber Creek
Recycling (H-2018-0042) by Michael Murgoitio located at 7965
S . Locust Grove Rd.
1. Request: Amendment to the Development Agreement to
include the following: expansion of the existing recycling
business to allow a commercial composting component;
recycling of additional materials (i.e. food waste, garden
waste, demolition debris, and other materials in the same
category); utilization of equipment (i.e. loaders, excavators,
conveyors, trommels , hopper boxes , air
systems/compressors, generators, windrower, crusher,
grinder, watering trucks , loaders, graders, tractors with
implements, fork lifts and other heavy equipment) and
activities (i.e. crushing, grinding, screening, windrowing,
unloading/unloading trucks , etc.) necessary for composting;
modification of the property to include a weather station,
scale house, bathroom with a septic system, storage shed
(approximately 40' x 8'), leaching ponds and berms; parking
of delivery trucks and heavy equipment; and marketing and
sale of processed recycling materials including but not
limited to mulch, compost, bark, playground chips, sand,
stone, etc.
De Weerd: Item 9-B is a public hearing that was continued from July 17th for H-2018-
0042. This was continued for a number of reasons, specifically to provide better
definition and refine the request and there was a long list. I won't go through it. But I
will turn this over to staff.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. On July 17th Council
continued this project in order to allow the applicant time to further refine their request
and, as the Mayor stated, based on items discussed during the public hearing. A
comprehensive list of the items discussed was to be incorporated in the -- excuse me --
modified strike through and underlined format of the original development agreement for
Council consideration. Items to be addressed as follows: Increase in the number of
trips specifically traffic. Removal of the retail component. This was discussed during
the hearing. However, the applicant has included a request to keep the retail
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component with further parameters on the use. Limit the size of the facility to a 39 acre
site. Limit hours of operation. Secure approvals from DEQ, ACHD, and the applicable
irrigation district. Submit a revised concept plan detailing the operations of the site,
which is incorporated into the amended agreement. Submit a sound study, odor plan
and fire emergency plan. Define term limits on the recycling use. Further define the
type of materials that are being exported, stored, and composted on the site and stating
the intended uses of said materials. And minimize impact to adjacent neighbors, for
example, installation of mufflers on specific equipment, installation of landscaping,
restricting the height of the stored materials and monitoring complaints associated with
the recycling activities. On September 6th a revised amended development agreement
was submitted to the city by the applicant as requested. Because of the controversy
surrounding this project, the city mailed new public hearing notices to property --
property owners within 1,000 feet of the property and those property owners that
testified during the public hearing. This same list was sent to the applicant to use to
schedule the neighborhood meeting, so the applicant could discuss the proposed
changes with neighbors. That meeting was held on September 5th. Some minor
revisions were incorporated into the draft document as a result of that meeting. In
summary, staff believes the applicant has adequately captured the items that were
discussed at the public hearing in the revised document. Although the applicant has
further defined the operational characteristics, if the use is to expand and propose
additional mitigation measures, staff does still have concerns with the expansion of the
recycling facility. The industrial nature of the use in a residential district. Therefore,
staff recommends that Council deny their request based on inconsistency of the
expanded use with the Comprehensive Plan and the zoning ordinance per the staff
report. Many letters of public testimony have been received since the last hearing.
Please see the public record for a complete list.
Borton: Thank you, Sonya. Council, any questions of staff? Is the applicant present?
Come on forward. Thanks for joining us tonight. Please state your name for the record.
Murgoitio: My name is Mike Murgoitio, managing member of Timber Creek Recycling.
My work address is 7695 South Locust Grove, Meridian, Idaho. Members of the
Council, I want to thank you for giving me another opportunity to kind of put a more
collective project together -- a DA amendment together for these -- for you guys and the
surrounding neighbors. Do you have my slide put up?
Borton: Mike, while --
Murgoitio: Yeah.
Borton: Over here. That's all right. While we are doing that I just wanted to -- to say
thank you for taking the time. We sort of gave you and our staff the laboring oar to try
and see if there is some way to craft this and take some time with the neighbors again.
So, any efforts to -- to further that we really appreciate.
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Murgoitio: Appreciate that. So, one of the things I wanted to start out with is the current
site, like the aesthetics of it. That was one of the problematic things with our neighbors
that they didn't like the looks of what it looked like. So, one of the first things we did was
-- is we removed all the tires on site. We moved all the junk piles. Concrete. We kind
of -- kind of broke it down and placed it for -- as far as a base for where we are going to
put a future road. We built the berms up and capped them with mulch. We wanted to
make them look nice and use the products that we are currently recycling. So, the other
thing was kind of the noise impact. We did a decibel study for a month long. We went
to two -- two times per day, five days a week. We got eight different points -- points
around the surrounding area. We wanted to make sure we kind of got a good
perspective of what the noise impact was. Two of these points, if you look on the right-
hand side there, are directly kind of in line with some neighbors. We didn't know the
sound changed when it kind of went at a distance, so we made sure and when we went
out that far to grab those. As you can see it kind of ranged from 40 to 50 points for the -
- the decibel levels and for those of you that don't know what a decibel is, it's kind of a
unit of measurement for the sound and right -- OSHA's kind of guidelines of those
thresholds. It kind of gives you a perspective of the sound and examples of those
noises. How we went about that was we -- we bought a muffler for our grinder and we
were changing the site around so much in different ways as far as the mulch piles and --
and different things. We kind of had a variety of different outcomes, but the one that
was really back to back was point four and that point was directly in line with one of our
berms that we didn't change specifically for that and we didn't move any of the piles
around it. We did it back to back so we could kind of get an accurate statement of what
that muffler did. The muffler was supposed to be, you know, a 15 to 18 or 20 reduction.
It only did ten and we think the motor went down, but the engine fan noise was still
there, plus the impact to the wood was still there. But we still have reduced it a
significant amount. One of the things over here on point five, six and seven, the reason
why the numbers went up, we harvested our corn. It turns out corn is a pretty good deal
for taking away sound. We also hauled away a bunch of mulch to our feedlot to prepare
for the wet season. Pile placement we found was a big deal, too. We changed where
we have -- our ground pile is now behind -- or our ground pile is ahead of where our
underground pile is, to kind of help manage that sound as well. We found that that
really helped. And we also made the berms bigger. Capped them with mulch. More
berms just to try and help with that sound. One of the things I am glad the neighbors
brought to our attention is our fire prevention plan. We had one, we just did not have a
professional put one together for us. We were doing pile monitoring, but probably
wasn't up to the spec to where I think is a good point for safety. We hired a guy, Mark
Larsen, which the Meridian Fire Department kind of provided us a few names to kind of
help us out and the guy was very professional, very sharp. We were very impressed.
He put a full page -- or a full package together for us. The thousand gallon water tank
we have on site, he had us hook to where the fire department can come in and hook up
immediately and have 4,000 gallons of access water. So, we like that. We did a lot of
employee safety training on fire extinguishers and, then, it's not on here, is an odor
management plan. We still have to go through DEQ to kind of implement that, but we
did tell the neighbors about kind of having a complaint line, like an e-mail address where
they could e-mail us and say, hey, we got an issue and we can get to it a little faster,
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probably, than the regulatory guys can. One of the things that was perceived is how
much grinding we do and the illusion of the increased volume. So, this is our -- our
yards that we grind at the Ada County Landfill and you can see, really, it's kind of been a
flat line. You can see in 2013 it was only five months, that was 60,000, and, really, that
is -- you know, it was only five months, then, we kind of got into the year to year to year
and it's pretty much a flat line. Hasn't increased. Maybe some this year it will increase,
but nothing of the perspective of what I think the -- the surrounding neighbors thought.
One of the other things is the majority of the grinding that is done at the landfill. We
have a size reduction, you know, so we are not going to haul, you know, material on
ground down to our site, like, you know, with wood because you grind it up it's going to
size reduce and you're going to get more material on per load. So, 78 percent is ground
off site, 22 percent of that is ground on site. I would say probably that -- that is -- that
helps a lot with the size reduction. We only ground 35 days in between now -- or
between January and now at our site. We have logs that we kind of do to track our trips
or fuel and we have that and I think people thought we ground every day and we don't.
Our goals are kind of to lower our carbon footprint. Grind the material where it makes
sense. Place the material where it makes sense. We want to kind of expand the
sustainable agricultural practices by composting, make the leaves more plant ready. It
frees up the elements for the plant. This is kind of a trend partnership -- a training
partnership with the -- the cities and the farms across the nation. You know, you see a
lot of different government agencies, they partner with farms, because it has a
guaranteed end use. But for that we don't want to exclude, you know, the citizens. We
want to share this material. That's why we said that we want to kind of have that option
for that retail area, but yet it is not a have to for this thing. Our overall goal is to have a
way to more plant right. So, I think I'm going to turn it over to Justin.
Cranny: Justin Cranny. 877 Main Street, Boise, Idaho. Here representing Timber
Creek Recycling. Thank you, again, for the opportunity we have to be before you. It's a
pleasure to return and, hopefully, to enter discussion and thoroughly enjoyed talking last
time with all of you. Just a brief history. I mean probably give it a brief recap. We left
here with direction, which was nice. We had ten items in the new development
agreement. So, we took those, we came, we revised, we sent to the City Council -- or
city attorney and the city planner and said here you go, here is what we think
encapsulates those ten items with additional considerations. We listened at the
hearing, we want to try and get everyone to be on the same page. We met with the city,
talked, had additional concerns given to us, additional issues that need to be
addressed. We revised. We sent it, then, to the attorney representing many of the
neighbors. Now, there is kind of a point of contention for several of the neighbors that
that attorney was not invited to our meeting with the city. The development agreement
is a contract between Timber Creek and the city. So, our goal was to have that meeting
between -- be between the city and Timber Creek. We wanted to make sure that the
city's concerns were properly discussed and were not minimize or pushed aside while
listening to the neighbors' concerns. Immediately upon sending the development
agreement to the attorney we set a meeting up. It was set for the September 5th before
the neighborhood meeting. Unfortunately, the attorney had to cancel last minute due to
a client conflict, which is fine, but we rescheduled. We talked after the neighborhood
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meeting. So, we had the neighborhood meeting. We discussed the revised
development agreement. We discussed the site plan and we listened to their comments
and as Mike's indicated we did -- we did make changes. There were several changes.
We added a line of trees to the west side of the property. The complaint line was an
excellent success. I mean that was one of the issues that we -- was announced last
time was we have complaints, but we don't know who to give it to or we give complaints
and we don't get a response. Well, hey, let's set up a line. This was a great comment
from the neighbors. We were glad to hear a constructive comment that would resolve a
problem. We gladly took that and ran with it. That said there is still a lot of complaints
and objections filed. I'm sure you have read all the objections. There is many, many,
many, many -- many pages. We have done our best. Some of these are hard to
resolve. In fact, we probably can't. Mike mentioned noise. He put mufflers on there
trying to minimize the noise. We are putting landscaping in. We are putting the berms
right now. He's even going to put up some hay bales to try and see if that will help
minimize the sound getting outside of the property. Doing what we can. That said, we
realized -- I realized this belatedly, too. Grinding doesn't occur every day. I mean we
are looking at -- they said 90,000 of the 110,000 cubic yards of material that are ground
happens off site. Why do they do this? It keeps their green footprint green and it keeps
it an economical business. So, I was thinking they are out there from 8:00 a.m. to 6:00
p.m. or 7:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. seven days or six days a week grinding and some of the
objections make it sound like that, you know, there is grinding going on for five to six
days straight or six days for weeks on end. It's not the case here. You know, when we
have these objections we don't know how to respond, because they are not true. Now,
that said, there is some noise and we are doing our best to mitigate that noise in this
development agreement. We took your ten items, we addressed them. You probably
noted that the language in the development agreement went from two pages --
approximately two pages of language to about nine. I mean we added -- you have the
section five that talks about here is what you can do and, then, we had section six,
which is even longer, here is what you can't do or here is what you have to do to
mitigate those damages -- or I mean those -- those -- your operations. There is still --
there is still issues. Traffic is still a big one. I mean we tried to clarify. Here is what a
truckload is. Here is what qualifies for the cap. Here is what does not count towards
that cap. We tried to clean it out and try and make it clear, but we recognize there is still
confusion. It was brought up at the neighborhood meeting. How do you tell? Well, we
are painting the trucks that bring the recycling materials in in red and the rest can be
blue. Something that obvious just isn't feasible in this scenario and, as Mike testified at
the last hearing and they have about seven days a week or a day they can come in.
About that. So, I mean pretty low. And I'm not anywhere near that. If there is questions
about the number of truckloads, Mike does keep track and if those records are
requested he would produce them, saying here is how many trucks we had bring in
recycled materials. Let's talk about it. That said, there is other trucks and we -- and
traffic coming in and out. We have, you know, the agricultural activity still on the
property -- on the adjacent property. There is going to be other traffic. So, we tried to
clarify the best of our ability. A couple of other points that kind of came up. There is a
lot of assertion that, hey, this is not an agriculture use, this is industrial, therefore, under
the development agreement you simply can't do it. The development when drafted was
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very broad. Simply said, Timber Creek, you can do what you're doing and keep doing it
or you may expand it. That's what the original development agreement said. Plain
language. Furthermore, in 2015 there was composting on the property. This is not
new. The request is to make it explicit in the development agreement, so that Mike can
go and try and get a tier two certification. It's not a new use. It's simply -- we are
getting the nuts and bolts and I's dotted and T's crossed. Retail sales. Yes, that was
initially indicated. It was probably going to come off. However, in discussions that's not
been a point of contention. In fact, there seems to be a little bit of favor that we
interpreted on that concept. Let's give back what we are getting. So, we left in it. But
as Mike indicated, if that's completely objectionable we will strike it. it's not a problem.
We are not trying to give you a moving target. I know that was a big issue last time.
You don't want, hey, we are pulling this up, pushing this in. What we have given you is
a final document. There is your target. That's what we are looking for these. Other
uses that Timber Creek is looking for with the restrictions Timber Creek has accepted
based on the ten items that the Council asked for and the comments that we received
from neighbors and we could put into to make this what we thought met all potential
impacts. Lastly, I do want to emphasize Timber Creek is committed to making sure that
it complies with DEQ, the Department of Ag, Central Health District, whoever governs
whatever part of the process. You may govern composting. Department of Ag may
govern the grinding. However it falls out. The regulations, whatever they may be, how
they may change Timber Creek will comply. So, you have a third party monitoring and
making sure that they are complying with code and they are inspected at a minimum
annually. I also know for a fact smell is a big issue. It's huge. I read the objection to
the smell, you know, hey, what are the smells. There is a lot of smells. I talked to DEQ
about smells. What do you do about smells? And they said, well, if there is a -- if there
is a complaint about a smell, we send two people out -- not one, two. Two p eople go
out there and they stand at various distances and they smell. Does it stink? No, not
scientific. I admit that. But that's their process. They take two for that reason. It's,
okay, does it smell. Do we think it reaches a threshold that requires some type of
action? If it does they say, Timber Creek, where is your odor mitigation plan? Are you
following it? No. Okay. We better start doing this. They will make sure there is
compliance with that plan. If he gets -- when he gets tier two designation there is an
odor management plan in place and they enforce it. So, with that said we have done
what we can to make this address, ameliorate, and mitigate risks that exist and potential
impacts that may exist on neighbors. Doing our best to be a good neighbor. Want to
make sure that if there are issues the complaint line is there, they will be able to
respond to it, assess, analyze and meet where necessary. Any further questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions at this time? Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Justin, how are you?
Cranny: How are you?
Bernt: I'm doing well. Thank you. Last time you were here you mentioned that you
would be doing some substantial changes to the development agreement. So, in your --
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in your estimation, your professional opinion, what -- what would be some examples of
some major changes that you have made in the development agreement?
Cranny: The short answer is it went from two to nine pages. Like we changed -- we
took every item and, basically, said, okay, how can we make this read better and be
more comprehensive. I could just flip open and tell you we explicitly state here is the
hours of operation for not only the recycling activity, for the retail area. Hey, this is as
much as you can do. We are going to have a retail area. Hey, it's going to be in this
area. We are going to make sure that vehicles that come in there don't go off into the
recycling areas. We talked about -- and I think the short answer is -- the biggest answer
is we really added to what the restrictions and limitations and steps that Timber Creek
had to do to try and minimize impact. That's the entire section six of the development
agreement. Let's work on visual impact. Hey, you have got to put a landscaping plan
in, you have to do the height of the recycled materials can only go so high. Dust
abatement. You have to make sure you water, you know. So, that's the one thing -- you
know, one of the complaints that we pulled that was filed was there is dust blowing
across the property lines. Now, when inspected DEQ came out said there is not. This -
- there is no dust blowing. But we now have steps to say you have to water. Here is
the trucks you have. Here is what you need to do to try and keep dust down. I could
keep going for quite a while if you want me to. But, in essence, we tried to make sure
that there was more things that you can do, but more of here is what -- here is what you
have to do to mitigate impact. That's the biggest change. What you can do, because it
was literally two pages. I went through and flipped and counted in the original
development agreement. Here is what you can do to -- here is what you can do -- here
is how you can do it. And for the record I went small gap to big gap.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mike or Justin, whoever wants to field this. You referenced a sound study
and perhaps it was included in our report and I have missed it. I don't know. Could you
tell us who conducted that study? It's -- it's referenced somewhat in the -- the narrative
from Code Enforcement, but I don't -- I don't see a copy of that. I'm just hoping you
could speak to who conducted that.
Murgoitio: Did you not get a copy of the entire study that we did?
Cavener: Madam Mayor. We may have, but I -- it's possible that -- that I missed it. I'm
just curious who was the one who conducted it and if we have it and I missed it, if staff
can direct me.
Murgoitio: My wife Tori Murgoitio did. She went to every point on the site and did it.
De Weerd: Okay. Please.
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Cranny: Just to make sure it's of record, I have a copy right here. I will present to the
city clerk if you're amenable and I can deliver it and have a copy to look at if you like.
Cavener: Sure.
Cranny: Would you like to see it first?
Murgoitio: So, just -- just so we clarify, the last form we turned in with our decibel
reader -- again, Star grinder, we submitted it at -- within five to ten feet away from the
grinder and we submitted 105 decibels. Code enforcement came out, inspected us
after we turned in that literature, and confirmed it was 105.
Cavener: Verified. Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Maybe a question for Mike or Justin or Mr. Nary. One part of the structure of
this is it has the development agreement with the landowner, obviously, you know, the
one who is entitled to encumber property and bind its use and go forward to
certifications, but Timber Creek there is a lot of conditions and requirements that the
Timber Creek entity is agreeing to, not the landowners as I understand it, so I'm unsure
how terms and conditions where Timber Creek agrees to do something, but the land
owner doesn't, as part of a binding provision in a development agreement that's
recorded and encumbers that property going forward and there is probably an easy
answer that I'm missing.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, I mean typically
in most development agreements -- and we can certainly incorporate this -- if you have
a developer or a property owner that are different entities, we normally would have them
both sign it, because we do record it against the property. So, they would both have to
agree. If they are separate entities, even though I think there is similar partners --
similar parties in both entities, but we would require that, because the county recorder
won't allow us to record without the property owner's signature on it.
Borton: And, Madam Mayor, that -- and that's the question. So, the -- the owner, the
L&G Murgoitio, who I understand is the property owner, but the Timber Creek -- there is
no association with the ownership of the real property. The reason I ask that is, you
know, these terms and conditions, if it -- if it were to go forward, if they are going to be
binding and everyone can adhere to them, is -- are the terms as set forth in this
development agreement truly binding or just --
Cranny: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, Timber Creek has no objection to
signing. I think that was the intent all along --
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Borton: Right.
Cranny: -- because -- and further, as a recorded document on the property it binds the
property so should they decide I'm not going to comply well, the city could, obviously,
bring an action against the owner who would, then, say, okay, you're not complying, get
off.
Borton: And, Madam Mayor, not to get too nerdy on it, but that was kind of the question
is there is some obligation to -- or at least the way it reads Timber Creek agrees to do
something. The owner developer does not. So, if Timber Creek dissolves, the
obligation remains to Timber Creek, not the owner developer, and there is probably a
way to clear that up, but that seemed odd.
Cranny: I think the shortest answer would simply be having Timber Creek sign, which
they will do.
Borton: Madam Mayor, I just had a couple other -- oh, go ahead, Mike, if you had a
comment. A couple other questions. The distinctions I didn't capture or didn't
understand why they were made. There is -- in the provision there is a sunset on the
composting, 6.9, that 2030 is a potential sunset, but it's not a sunset on recycling
activities, which is much broader. That appears to go in perpetuity. So, what was the
reason behind sunsetting one activity, but not all of them, should the circumstances that
would lead to the city changing it's mind in 2030 occur?
Cranny: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, great question. So, the -- under the
original development agreement we have retained the original sunset provisions for the
recycle activities, coming and asking for composting, have those sunset at a different
time because it is a separate use. They still want to retain the original sunset provisions
for the balance of the -- the recycle activities under the original development agreement.
In all likelihood they will trigger at the same time, but just in -- just as a -- keeping
options open, they distinguish between the two.
Borton: Okay. Madam Mayor, I apologize. If there is a provision that says the recycling
activities also sunset --
Cranny: Yes .
Borton: -- I missed that. Sorry about that.
Cranny: In Section 6.8.18, termination of recycling activities. So, the recycling activities
will cease unless permitted by -- in the UDC upon the earliest of the following. So, we
have two. If the property is conveyed to a third party. It's done. So, if the owner was to
sell to a developer to develop it, they are done, because, obviously, they don't want
probably Timber Creek to continue operating. If the development on the adjacent
property occurs, according to those requirements, within a thousand feet of the grinder,
it's done. So, as defined, if those first two happen, the composting, likewise, that
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happens. But if those two don't happen -- the compost in 2030, come back and the City
Council says no more composting, that's gone. So, it's -- it's all -- for the first two can go
-- or if they continue passed 2030 and come back to City Council on the composting
alone, they say no, that's gone. Different triggers. Different --
Borton: Okay. Thank you. That's helpful.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions at this point? Thank you.
Cranny: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Brenda Blitman signed up to testify, indicating
neutral. Wishing to testify. Is Brenda here? No? Okay. Paul Winward. Against.
Wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Winward: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Paul Winward. 8291 South Locust Grove,
Meridian.
De Weerd: Thanks, Paul.
Winward: Facts are stubborn things, said John Adams, and whatever may be our
wishes, our inclinations, the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the facts. The
evidence. It's clear the applicant is passionate and he wants it to happen. A lot of the
neighbors are passionate. We are concerned from questions that have been asked, for
the revisions that have been requested, that the Council is inclined to allow this. The
facts are as stated by the staff. The memorandum for this meeting stated that the --
although the applicant has further defined the operational characteristics and their
proposed additional negating measures, staff still has concerns with the expansion, the
industrial nature of the use in a residential district. Staff recommended the Council deny
the request for the reasons previously stated. Those reasons previously stated for the
July 17th meeting. They are still stubborn facts. The applicant is proposing heavy
industrial use in an area that's zoned residential. In fact, it's a prohibited use in the R-4
district and it's not consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. Staff said the proposed
use is heavy industrial and the current R-4 zoning of the property primarily allows for
residential uses and other low impact uses. Industrial uses are prohibited. Expanding
the use to a more intense industrial use is also prohibited and should not be allowed
through a modification to the DA. Hopefully, the Council will look at those stubborn
facts. One more thing. More of a procedural matter. During the neighborhood
meetings the applicant stated that he has a relationship or friends with Mr. Palmer and
that they had conversations and even a meeting outside of this meeting. If, then, we
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would hope that -- that you refrain from further positive comments and also from voting
on this issue.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I think the only time I have ever had a conversation with Mike was when I was
introduced to him at a birthday party a year or two ago. I have never spoken with him
outside of that event.
Winward: You are not friends on Facebook? I'm just curious.
Palmer: Probably. I'm friends with just about anybody from the city that adds me.
Winward: Those are my concerns. Thank you, Members of the Council.
De Weerd: Thank you, Paul.
Coles: Brian Socha signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Socha: Good evening. Thank you for having me here. My name is Brian Socha. My
address is 8401 South Cloverdale Road, Boise, Idaho. And I just became aware of this
facility wanting to do recycling here. I know -- I have driven by it many times and I just
thought this is allowed. Me and my wife have talked about the smell. That is our main
-- one of our main concerns and my biggest issue with this is -- is the zoning of
industrial. You have an impact of this facility which is going to be noise around the
immediate people, but my major concern is this is R-4. We bought our place about 13
years ago. I expanded it myself, 2,800 square feet onto the house. Built it all myself.
This is my retirement. And now my concern is with the zoning for residential and
allowing one industrial to come in here. Are we creating an industrial park if we let one
person in with industrial and, then, all of a sudden, okay, now let's have a park here. I'm
from North Dakota. Population 3,500. Rugby. Okay. And when they were doing their
plan they created an area, an industrial park. There is no housing around it. It's all
business. And what I'm concerned about is that this is going to grow, instead of just
being residential. I have no problem with commercial. I would love to have a store next
door where I could just walk to and get my groceries, instead of driving and stuff. But
the impact of the smell and the future, what is the intent. Since this is sort of -- I sort of
looked at a zoning map last night and it was into Kuna. Meridian annexed to our back
door and they asked me a few years ago do you want to be included in Meridian. I said
no. I bought the property, because I want to be in Boise. All right. So, I just sort of
forgot about it and then -- so, I looked at the zoning map and now it's right -- I don't
know -- a hundred feet from my back property and along with a few other people's
property that I know and so that's all I have to say.
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De Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate you joining us.
Coles: Vikki Reynolds, wishing to testify, signed up against.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Reynolds: Good evening. I'm Vicki Reynolds. I live at 7838 South Tranquility Lane,
within the thousand feet area of this project, and I testified here last time as well. So,
you have heard a lot of my thoughts already, but I just want to reiterate -- this is R-4
zoning. Your Comprehensive Plan talks about continued growth of R-4 and residential
areas, not industrial. This is just not an applicable use in a residential area. Somebody
mentioned the retail sales object -- didn't hear any objection to the retail sales. The
applicant mentioned that. And that's because -- I haven't said anything about that,
because it's just the wrong thing in the wrong place. That's just how it is. I would
encourage, again, like some of the other folks have said, I would just encourage you to
follow your staff recommendation. The staff continues to recommend denying this and I
would ask that you follow that staff recommendation. I would stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Christine Herwy, wanting to testify. Signed up against.
Broderick: Good evening. I'm sorry that I came up as well. C.Jay, could you pull up
that PowerPoint? We were coming together to represent the Meridian Southern Rim
Coalition. So, we just wanted to read the statement.
Borton: Madam Mayor. Can you get a little closer to the mic.
Broderick: Yes . Sorry. My name is Lisa Broderick and I live at 2231 East Lodge Trail
Drive in Meridian, Idaho.
Herwy: My name is Christine Herwy. I live at 2373 East Taconic Drive in Meridian,
Idaho.
Broderick: So, we had a statement to read from and I'm going to try to cut out some of
the redundant conversation, because there has been a lot of discussion on the R-4
zoning, which is definitely throughout our statement. But in addition to the concerns
related to the R-4 zoning we recognize that the applicant agreed he would not expand
the scope of his business beyond what existed at the time of his property's annexation.
If you recall the troubling testimony from last month, the Google Earth images taken in
the ensuing years, which appeared to demonstrate that he was in direct violation of that
current agreement with the City of Meridian. We ask you to deny this proposed
amendment, because it does not comply with the following Comprehensive Plan goals
and objectives. 3.05.02, to maintain the integrity of neighborhoods, to preserve values
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and ambiance of areas. 3.05.03, plan for appropriate use within rural areas. And
3.06.00, encouraged compatible uses to minimize complex and maximize use of land.
Herwy: To expand on the goals and objectives, the property is zoned R-4 or low to
medium residential land use and we concur with this staff expanded scope of operations
would be industrial in nature. Further, we believe the expanded business would stretch
any reasonable definition of compatible or appropriate use in a quiet rural locale, one of
farm and several semi-rural properties, which will soon feature one of Meridian's gems,
our new regional park on Lake Hazel. The coalition believes this amendment would
allow a disruptive and nonconforming use defined by heavy truck traffic, food waste
dust, and more that would devalue property values, Meridian's livability factor and the
quality of life for Timber Creek's neighbors. The city's planning staff recommends denial
of the DA amendment. We concur. In conclusion, our members have an additional very
important objection to this substantial change in the land use within our city limits.
Meridian is in the midst of creating a new Comprehensive Plan. City and civic leaders,
as well as the Meridian South -- Southern Rim Coalition are urging all stakeholders in
Meridian to drive this important conversation and engage in the process. The coalition
is promising its members that their voices will be heard. To ensure the highest level of
public trust engagement in the comp plan process and to validate the promise the city
sincerely wants to -- wants a vision that reflects the desires of its stakeholders. The
coalition does not support substantial deviations for the current plan, code, or zoning
map. We strongly believe any substantial -- substantial amendments to the use into the
new plan as approved in 2019 by the City Council will, A, discourage participation in the
comp plan process and erode public trust in the City Council's commitment to the new
Comprehensive Plan. We, therefore, respectfully request that the City Council deny this
proposed development agreement.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you for joining us.
Coles: Kathleen Britt. Against. Wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us.
Britt: Good evening. Thank you for the opportunity to be here. My name is Kathleen
Britt. I live at 8259 South Jardine Lane in Meridian. I do wish to go -- to continue to go
on record as being opposed to the application by Mike Murgoitio at this location that's
been on the northwest corner of Locust Grove and Columbia. I don't believe anything
has changed since the original application for the -- for the amended development
agreement previously submitted, other than it becoming even more obvious, as has
been stated by others, that this is an industrial operation attempting to expand into
residentially zoned areas, to the detriment of surrounding neighbors and incomplete
noncompliance with the city's Comprehensive Plan, current codes, future land use and
stated goals and objectives. I feel appalled about -- for one thing that instead of fixing
and addressing the process areas that have occurred historically with this, that -- that
Mike was allowed to continue to go back to the drawing board again to attempt to clarify,
redefine and expand his development agreement and, once again, the neighbors
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weren't allowed to participate. I'm sure there is somebody else here that will address
whatever happened with the attorneys, but, once again, the neighbors were not allowed
to participate. That did not feel good, particularly with what's gone on historically. I
don't feel that there is any credible dispute that this application consists of -- that it
consists of anything other than a different and expanded land use from the original
annexation and development agreement. I have lived on Jardine Lane since May of
2016 and I drive by this location probably 14 to 28 times per week. I have observed an
ever increasing expansion of operations and an increase in truck traffic, higher volumes
of materials piling up on the property, higher piles of compost accumulating and
increased volume of noise during increased hours of operation. During both the week
and the weekend Mr. Murgoitio told us at the last neighborhood meeting that with this
proposal he will be bringing in an even greater volume of materials, adding different
types of materials and using different processes to get to the end product. He admitted
that this is why he should be moving from a tier one composting facility with the DEQ to
a tier two. According to the DEQ representative that will be handling the application to
pass, this is an industrial operation and they would -- as they would have oversight
under a tier two, whereas in an agricultural tier one level they would not. He also
indicated that Mr. Murgoitio already had a recent violation on his property for processing
specifically mixing materials, because that is not allowed under his current operations.
So, again, it appears to be very clear that this is a change and expansion of what was
originally being done and being allowed on his property. I would like to stop to just veer
off for one moment on the traffic issue. In my opinion -- and, again, I live right there on
his road right at that intersection. It's not only the volume of trucks, it's what's happened
-- happening when the trucks are driving down the road. The intersection there at
Columbia and Locust Grove is two lanes in each direction, eight lanes total. In order for
Mr. Murgoitio's trucks -- I don't care what they are doing, agricultural, red, blue,
whatever, they are so big that when they attempt to turn that corner they block all eight
lanes of that traffic. They have to go into the oncoming lane to turn whichever direction
he's turning. My husband was approaching the stop sign and actually had to back up to
allow Mr. Murgoitio's truck to finish the turn. If he's turning off the roads to turn onto his
property he has to, again, go onto oncoming traffic. So, I believe you guys are putting in
place a park in a not too distant location. The city of Kuna has a high school going in
right across Colombia and Meridian Road and we are looking at a plan to be revisited in
2030. I -- I don't see how --
De Weerd: Ma'am, can you, please, summarize.
Britt: Am I over already?
De Weerd: Yes .
Britt: All right. Well, I guess one of the points that failed to make it onto the agenda
here for tonight that was in that neighborhood meeting was that Mr. Murgoitio was
unaware of any insurance that he would have to handle any other --
De Weerd: I really need to you wrap up.
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Britt: I am. And noise complaints I feel like the city should be aware of that. There is
no protection for us there. The complaint line, in conclusion, Madam Mayor, was
something that brought up the intent of that what -- it was not that Mike would be
hearing the complaints, was to bring to the attention that there is no one having any
oversight that also has the authority to enforce those complaints, including the DEQ and
there is nothing in place to protect us from fire or anything else off site. His site might
be protected. Site operations for fire protection. There is nothing for any of our
surrounding properties. Thank you for the opportunity to speak.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kathleen.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Sorry. Kathleen.
De Weerd: Oh, Kathleen.
Cavener: And either for you or for someone who is providing testimony that spoke --
and I appreciate trying to get a lot of information in a very short time, but the element
about DEQ classifying the site as industrial use, was that a -- a comment from
somebody at DEQ? Is that in a letter? Is that --
Britt: It is in a comment. I had two conversations on two different occasions with Kevin
Ryan.
Cavener: Nothing submitted formally?
Britt: I'm not aware of any process whereby I can get anything formally on a consistent
message.
Cavener: Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: That was funny that that section of what you were talking about jumped at me
as well and -- and so I'm just trying to understand, regardless -- so, if this is denied
Murgoitios -- the Timber Creek recycling still gets to continue doing what it's doing. So,
this is not to make it go away. He already has an agreement, already accepted, it was
part of the annexation. So, I guess where I'm confused, based on what you just said, is
if -- if he does the expansion, then, you have -- you all have more protection based on
what you just said. DEQ is involved. He has people inspecting him. Whereas now
none of that has to happen and so if -- if I was a neighbor I guess I would rather there
be as many agencies involved making sure his operations are the noise mitigated,
sound -- you know, sound mitigated, fire mitigated, you know, all of those safety things
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that you're talking about and nuisances. If it was larger you would be more protected
than if it --
Britt: Well, I'm really glad you asked that, because that was actually a part I didn't get
to. So, there is -- there is more requirements up front, but the problem is once that is in
place it's largely self reporting and what I was told by the DEQ is they come out once a
year, not many times -- up to that. That's -- that's when they come out and it's with
notice. So, the only other way for there to be anything that happens is pursuant to
complaints and they have very limited authority with regards to respond and to -- and to
enforce. Again, he's already been found in -- in violation. Violation with the Department
of Agriculture. So, I don't believe self reporting is going to work and I think the most
important part of your question to me is that it's not just what is going on on his property,
because if there is a site and an operations failure and it expands to our property and a
particular concern to me is fire, because fire is kind of a when, not an if, and all it takes
is a blowing ember to transfer onto one of our yards across the street -- there is no
water out there. A 4,000 gallon water truck isn't going to do it. A well using his sprinkler
deals isn't going to do it. My understanding is you guys are planning to put in water out
on Meridian and I think Linder in two years. That's two years. When there is a fire that
burns down my property across the street in the meantime, where is the water going to
come from? Mr. Murgoitio in this last -- in the neighborhood we have experienced the
same thing you guys did. And what about all of a sudden we find out there is these two
13,000 gallon fuel tanks on his property. So, we want to know what's in them. He
doesn't know if it's gas, if it's diesel, he doesn't know if it's a single level of aluminum, if
it's a double level. Again, that's great, apparently somebody from the fire, whatever,
required some barriers so cars can't run into it. That's fabulous. But what about when
we have a fire and you have an explosion, but he's unaware of that. Says I'm just -- I'm
a farm boy, I want to be a good neighbor and I'm composting my stuff. The problem
with that is we can't get any answers to that. If you want to have trust in your operations
you need to be aware that that's a fire risk. When we ask a question, you need to
answer that question. So, I don't believe -- to answer your question, I don't believe we
have any increased protections. They do a process up front. After that it's largely
based on self reporting and I would like to say there are cities across this country that
have lawsuits over these issues, primarily odor, quite frankly, because, again, it's an
odor management, not odor elimination. They all have state agencies that are like the
DEQ, they all went through a process with really intelligent people here that are trying to
make a good decision and, yes, they thought they did it right. My husband was a fire
marshal in the city to Ta coma for 30 years. He saw the city of Tacoma that, quite
frankly, had a lot more experience just -- excuse me. Can't move my leg, so we are
okay. You know, a lot broader land, a lot more opportunities. They did it three times.
Three times they thought they got it right, three times it failed, three times they had
lawsuits. So, how much do we have to suffer? I mean this could all go back to just the
basic thing. It's an inappropriate use in a residential area. Why would you guys expose
us to that? Why would you do that? So, I don't believe there are protections for us.
And I appreciate you asking the question.
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Milam: Madam Mayor? I just to respond, though, it's there already and it's not going
away. They already have an agreement. So, I guess a lot of the -- a lot of what I'm
hearing from -- from testimony from people is -- as if this were for approval of this in the
first place and I -- so I understand. I still kind of go back to, you know, there would be
more protections. Once a year is better than never or maybe -- you know, having
somebody to complain to is better than not having somebody to complain to. This was
part of a -- he wouldn't have annexed into the city had we not asked him to, so we could
bring the water and the sewer lines through that -- through there, so --
Britt: But they are not there.
Milam: Madam Mayor, question for staff. Is it still two years out? It seems like it's been
longer than that.
De Weerd: I don't see anyone from Public Works here.
Britt: I can tell you that road the fire hydrant on Locust Grove and Lake Hazel --
De Weerd: Ma'am, if you will wait for a moment.
Britt: Apologize.
De Weerd: We do have sewer brought to where we said we would. Development
drives it from there.
Milam: Thanks.
Britt: I want to answer your question, though, is that this is -- this is -- you're saying,
well, it's already there. The problem is what's being considered tonight is not what's
already there. It's an expansion. He's bringing in food waste. He's bringing in gypsum
board -- board and drywall. Those create a totally different gas, a totally different fire
risk.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Britt: I'm sorry, I thought she asked me a question.
De Weerd: Well, I think you have already answered it.
Britt: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Madam Chair, Members of the Council, a question that came up from
Councilman Cavener, I just want to make sure that the record is accurate, that we did
receive comment from DEQ dated July 13th on this application. Next we have James
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Roy-Alan Baugh signed up against, wishing to testify. Let's see. Okay. Brett Morgan
signed up against, wishing testify. Lisa Broderick sign up against, wishing to testify.
Okay. Wayne Gearhard, against, wishing to testify. Patty Hagler, against, wishing to
testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Hagler: Hi. Patty Hagler. I live at 7200 South Locust Grove, which is located across
the road from the Timber Creek operation and where I have lived for 25 years. At the
last meeting I defined an ag operation based on my education, a master's degree in
agriculture from Washington State University. This was followed by multiple questions
from the Council and the Mayor stated that the Council doesn't deal with ag and
requested additional information, the research to define agricultural operations. Per that
request I contacted two state agencies, the Idaho Department of Agriculture and the
Idaho Department of Environmental Quality. The deputy director of the Idaho
Department of Agriculture provided two documents, Title 22 of the Idaho statutes and a
District Court decision that addressed whether composting operations are classified as
agricultural. I provided these documents with my written comments. The deputy
director of the Idaho Department of Agriculture stated that when an operation obtains a
DEQ permit for composting they are defined as an industrial operation and are no
longer defined as an agricultural operation under Department of Ag jurisdiction. DEQ
confirmed that Timber Creek has applied for and obtain a tier one permit for their
composting operation. The District Court ruled that under the Soil and Plant
Amendment Act, the Idaho legislature stated that organic waste derived material is
exempt from the definition of soil amendments that are used in agricultural operations.
They included grass clippings, leaves, weeds, bark, plantings, prunings and other
vegetative waste, which are all materials being dumped at Timber Creek. The clear
conclusion from two state agencies and a District Court is Timber Creek is an industrial
operation and no amount of berms, landscaping, or straw bales can change that.
Based on publicly available information the conclusion by any person, council, or court
is the 2016 development agreement only allows for the agricultural operation that
existed at that time to operate in the city or zoning. Timber Creek is now an industrial
operation that can't be allowed to operate in the city in R-4 residential zoning.
Additionally, by executing the 2016 DA the city is discriminating against property owners
by granting preferential rights to two large land owners that annexed to Meridian city.
Because Timber Creek will only cease operation if one of those two property owners
obtains a certificate of occupancy from the City of Meridian. The effect is surrounding
property owners can't sell or develop their property until one of those two property
owners sells and develops. I am requesting that the Meridian City Council, one, deny
Timber Creek's industrial expansion application, because industrial operations are not
allowed in residential zoning, so it violates zoning code, and Timber Creek's industrial
dump operation is detrimental to the surrounding residential environment, including the
new Meridian city park due to noise, visual, dust and odor pollution. By the way, we are
not lying. That grinder will operate for days on end. Number two. Enforce the 2016 DA
to only allow the agricultural operation and volume that existed in 2016, which I think
answers your question, which Timber Creek has blatantly violated. Number three.
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Correct the discrimination of property owners by revising the DA agreement to read that
Timber Creek's operation will cease upon notice to the city that an occupancy certificate
has been issued within a thousand feet of any city or county. Please do not grant
preferential rights to one large land owner against all the other affected property owners
that have invested in their property in good faith and are depending on zoning laws.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. You know, I appreciate your enthusiasm, but if we can respect
each of the speakers and -- and not applaud afterwards. I know you're all passionate,
but we would appreciate that decorum.
Coles: Next is Loyal Gibbons, against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Gibbons: Mayor and Council, thank you. My name is Loyal Gibbons. I live at 8350
South Jardine Lane. I have lived there about 25 years. Directly south of the property.
And I finally did this last time get notified. So, thank you for that. After the last speaker i
really don't have much to say, other than just to reiterate -- I will just put your attention to
the actual thing you handed out tonight. It says expansion -- and that's exactly what
they want to do. They want to expand. What you clearly heard was they have stepped
beyond their current development goal, which is what I testified to last time, all of these
other uses. It's not ag anymore, it's become commercial and now tier two -- it only goes
one higher than tier two, it goes to tier three, and that's the biggest composting
operation you can get commercially. Okay. So, this will be -- this will be the largest
composting -- I mean if they have their way this will be the largest one in the whole
area. It will dwarf Boise and the rest of them if they get their way and the contracts they
are pursuing. So, it would really be in the city's best interest, for the park, that -- all of
the residents and -- and all of the other testimony -- you have heard it before if we just
listened to staff, listen to the neighbors, and -- and have them put us in a protation,
which there are many of us just a little ways out of town. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Mark Perison, wishing to testify.
Perison:, Good evening --
De Weerd: Good evening.
Perison: -- Madam Mayor and Council. My name is Mark Perison. My business
address is 314 South 9th Street in Boise, Idaho. I think I would like to give you a slightly
different perspective. You have heard a lot about the problems this has caused with the
neighbors. My client Miller Acres owns a large piece of property in the area and I can
tell you that if this thing is to continue, if it's going to be expanded or it's going to be
allowed to continue in what we perceive to be beyond the bounds of the original
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agreement, my client isn't going to develop this property. I don't think any developer
with any sense is going to want to begin developing near this project until it's done.
That leaves Timber Creek and the related entities in a great position. They can simply
wait it out, they can pick up some more properties and, then, when they are ready they
can shut this down and begin developing. The rest of us just have to wait. I think that's
going to be detrimental to all the citizens of Meridian, because those properties are
going to sit vacant, tax revenues are going to go down, the values are going to go down
and they are probably not going to become part of the community in a way that -- that
the community needs. My client believes that when his property is annexed -- their
property is annexed into the city it will be a slightly higher residential designation and
there could be apartment complexes, a little bit more dense development. Something I
think everybody in the Treasure Valley understands, there is a -- there is a real shortage
of that sort of housing and I guess we will just -- if this is approved we will just wait until
they decide to cease their operations before that property can be developed. So, as --
certainly from our perspective, what we would ask is that this proposed expansion be
denied, but also at some point the city takes a look at whether the existing use really
does comply with the original development agreement and our position is that it -- it
doesn't, it's been expanded well beyond that. So, we would ask that you deny the
application. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mark.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mark can -- Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Mark, where exactly is your client's property and get it in
context of -- if you can put up a map. He's going to have to show me exactly which
parcel is his. I believe it's in this area right here; is that right? Sixty acres in that area
right there.
Palmer: Thank you.
Perison: Any other questions?
De Weerd: No. Thank you.
Coles: Nicole Brown is next to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Brown: Good evening. My name is Nicole Brown. I live at 7524 South Locust Grove,
Meridian. I live directly across from the Timber Creek Recycling. Mayor Tammy , City
Council, let me start by saying that it is my hope that the Council will deny this
application. With Meridian city's annexation of the subject property it has now ruled by
your standards of R-4. The reason for this annexation is that south Meridian is the
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fastest growing place in Idaho. The city recognizing -- recognizes this by expanding
services, putting in parks and approving multiple new subdivisions. An industrial use is
in direct conflict with the Comprehensive Plan, devaluing the current property owners in
the surrounding area. The Comprehensive Plan was prepared to provide for the future
growth in a fashion that preserves the best interests and uses for all citizens. The
Comprehensive Plan notes: The importance of thoughtful and responsible land use
planning -- which is why there is not any industrial zoning in this area. Note that any
new improvements should respect view sheds, open space. What I have gotten to look
at the last two years is a garbage pile. It was the city's intent to allow and maintain
existing uses when they agreed to the DA as a temporary interim use. Unfortunately for
the surrounding neighborhood, Timber Creek's current DA allowed him to increase his
growth by 40 percent. He is currently running at two to three hundred of that original
DA. The Meridian city has done nothing to monitor, enforce, or maintain the use that
was agreed to. This leaves all of us at the mercy of the industrial Timber Creek
recycling plant. It is common knowledge that very few people want to live next door to
an industrial site, especially one that is perceived as a dump, which this one is. These
perceptions affect property values in a negative fashion, which, in turn, hurts the
neighborhood and the intended use as residential. The governing bodies have made
sure that Timber Creek partners, i.e., the Ada County Landfill, Meridian substation,
Boise city recycling and processing plant, who are doing the same and similar
processing recycling as Timber Creek, are all required to be in industrial zones, taking
strict steps and measures to mitigate and minimize the effects on any surrounding
residents. At the last hearing the gravel pit situational was mentioned multiple times.
What Timber Creek is asking for and what you would create by even considering this
application is a condition that has all the same earmarks as the gravel pit project. As a
neighbor who is directly affected daily by this operation, I will protect my home value, my
view shed, and my peaceful lifestyle. Denial is the only way to protect current residents
who will lose the value of their properties, be unable to sell or develop their property
next to their once peaceful country homes. The Timber Creek plan has adversely
impacted our rights to quiet enjoyment and put into jeopardy future development of our
land, creating a very tangible financial impact to property values. Any expansion will
cause further negative impact to those rights and a resulting loss of land values. I ask
you to, please, deny this application and to have the applicant go back to his original
agreement, which he is already in noncompliance.
De Weerd: Thank you, Nicole.
Coles: Craig Brown would like to testify.
De Weerd: And who is your attorney? Who all are you representing? Okay. You will
have ten minutes.
Coles: Jim Cox would like to testify. Signed up against.
De Weerd: Did you raise your hand?
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Cox: I did. Yes . I signed up. I raised my hand. What's been said -- to be redundant, I
would only introduce myself. I'm -- I'm Jim Cox. 1305 Columbia Road. Right across
the street from the facility. So, I'm happy to -- to let Josh represent me.
De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: Troy Allen signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: And you're not part of the group that raised your hand either; correct?
Allen: Right.
De Weerd: Okay.
Allen: No hand.
De Weerd: No hand. Well, I'm sorry.
Allen: Troy Allen.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Allen: Troy Allen. 775 East Columbia Road, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Allen: Council Members and Madam Mayor, the last time I spoke my concern was
whether the current operation even fell within the parameters of an agricultural or if it
was industrial at that time. At this time I would like to give you a scenario to better
illustrate why the current operation is industrial. If Mike was producing metal corral
panels for his own livestock and that of his uncle's, I think we would all agree that that
could fall under the definition of farming or ranching. Now, let's say Mike is done
enclosing his and his uncle's livestock and he decides to start producing them to sell at
D&B and Farm City. I believe most of us would say that at that point the production of
corral panels has turned to industrial. This is exactly what has happened with his
operation. He has grown and changed so much he is no longer agricultural. That may
not be what we are talking about right now, but I believe when Mike was annexed into
the city, which I don't know which one of you were here and not, which I don't think was
done properly, he might -- might have been within the guidelines of agricultural and I
believe he was going to be allowed to expand by 40 percent. With the volume that he is
currently producing I believe he -- if he produced his records, which he did, which I
would bet that that is not on-site processing that he is talking about, but off site and on
site and if you looked at on site it probably exceeds the 40 percent already. Since the
annexation -- I live right next to it. I have personally seen the increase in traffic, quantity
of product being taken in and out, increase in equipment used to process, the
transformation from a once agricultural looking piece of property to an eyesore of
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industry in our neighborhood. At the last meeting President Borton suggested that we
might call his proposal what it is and ask for rezoning to industrial and not try to slip
through the cracks with the -- in the process while it leans onto R-4, which is it just me --
that at least one person on the Council sees this request for what it is and I hope the
rest of you can look at the facts, make the correct decisions on this issue. Our
community should be what you're considering when you vote, not the interest of one
person or financial benefits are what you should consider, but, please, consider the
personal financial impact, personal quality of life and our community in general when
you're ready to vote. Lastly, once you vote no, which I'm assuming you all are, on this
project, I suggest you look closely at Mike's current operation and you reel him back in
to what he was doing prior to the questionable annexation. You have asked the
question to his attorney what changed. He never answered it. Very little is the answer
to that. Have you guys all read the 71 letters? Everybody read it? Everybody read all
the letters and from the attorney? So -- good. I think that is critical that you guys do
that, because I think out of the 71, 60 some of them are against and very few are for, so
-- I don't know if there is any questions. I know your question last time was what
industrial and agricultural -- I hope that explained was a little bit better. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Dean -- Dean Symonds next, wishing to testify.
Symonds: Hello.
De Weerd: Hi.
Symonds: My name is Dean Symonds. 8151 South Locust Grove.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Symonds: I don't have any new information for you, but what I have is the perspective
of a really close, downwind neighbor. We -- I'm not against growth and I don't -- I'm
generally for the recycling, but just like almost everybody else out there I'm really, really
worried about our property values. It's the biggest investment I have and probably more
than that, if you allow food waste I'm really worried about the quality of life. You know,
when -- when Mike shuts off his equipment the noise stops and the dust stops, but the
smell doesn't go away and if there is food waste up there it's going to smell like the
landfill. That's all I have. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Debbie Allen would like to testify.
D.Allen: I'm Debbie Allen. I live at 775 East Columbia Road in Meridian. Right across
the street from the -- the dump. So, here we are again providing testimony that this
industrial business is incompatible with the proposed location. We have explained that
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it violates your own zoning guidelines and it will devastate the property values of
everyone around it. It will be detrimental to the quality of life for all of us who live nearby
and it poses a fire hazard. It will likely cause leaching into the irrigation system due to
the piles of all kinds of stuff I guess. Not sure what all is in those piles sitting next to the
canals. It will put a tremendous burden on the roadways and a dramatic increase in
truck traffic. One of the things I wanted to mention -- and she left -- the Council Member
that asked about it already being a recycle center and how would that change. Well, the
whole point of this is that it's going to increase exponentially. So, it's already bad, it's
already well beyond what the original development agreement allowed, and if you
approve it it's going to be exponentially worse than what it is right now, which is already
detrimental to us. Last time we met you gave Mr. Murgoitio the opportunity to rewrite
his proposal, despite all the testimony against the proposal. He was supposed to and
said he would -- consult with the neighbors to come up with something that would work
for everyone. He didn't. He made it look like he kind of was trying. As was mentioned
already they didn't let the attorney meet with them as -- to be a part of that planning
process to have some input in how it was crafted and designed. Mike said that he
would restrict the amount of land to 36 acres, but in Section 6-1 he states that he would
store and use process recycled materials on the balance of the property. So, they didn't
really restrict the land. He said he would take food waste off the table, but it's there. It
also adds garden waste to it and as several people mentioned the food products are a
huge source of smell and that's something that everybody is really fearful of. The
previous agreement stated things like -- and other such products and other as required,
things like that, and that was part of the problem is that there were no boundaries. But
the new agreement has its own section of -- and whatever else you want to do. That's
Section 5-2-7 on activities. And, then, in Section 5-3 it also says: But not limiting and
related activities. So, there is still all this open ended, we can expand as much as we
want, we can do all these other things, because they fall within other activities. There
are still no boundaries. Furthermore, Section 6-4-2 states that Timber Creek will keep
the height of the piles of recycling materials at the greater of 25 feet or what the fire
department will allow. It doesn't say up to or not greater than, it says it's going to keep
the piles at the max. That's a little scary. The proposal seems worse than the first one.
This is a prime example of one person with great resources, apparently so well
connected that he trudges ahead, regardless of zoning regulations or development
agreements, as he has been this summer. He receives all kinds of exceptions -- can I
just summarize?
De Weerd: Please.
D.Allen: If you approve this proposal you are causing all that this greater majority of
property owners have put into our farms to simply evaporate for the sake of one well
connected entrepreneur who wants to operate where it's convenient. Mike is the only
one who can pick up what he's got going on and move to a location away from a
neighborhood and he should move it. It's a dump. The rest of us can't relocate. The
decades -- decades of time, work, and finances that we have invested into our farms
and homes, we can't move the trees we have planted, we can't move the concrete with
our children hand prints in it. We can't move the homes that we have built. But he can
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and he should. And I do have one picture just as a little bit of perspective. You have
heard about the piles of stuff. Here is a great big piece of equipment. You can see how
it's dwarfed by this pile and here is a person here and you can see how it -- the person
is just a spec. That's how big the piles are.
De Weerd: Do you want to show that to those behind you, too. Thank you, Debbie.
Counsel, any questions? Is there a chance we can get a copy of --
D.Allen: Yeah. I have already got your e-mails --
De Weerd: Okay.
D.Allen: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Eric Sater is next, wishing to testify.
Sater: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening, Eric.
Sater: My name is Eric Sater. I live at 1102 Ruby Drive in Nampa and I bought that
house back in February, but for the prior nearly 16 years I lived within a mile of the site.
That's where my parents and most of my family still live today. So, I'm there quite often.
Madam Mayor, Council Members, I will try not to be too redundant with what's already
been covered. I had four main points I would like to hit. The first one being ag versus
industrial. A lot has already been said about this. But I think it's really the linchpin of
this whole proposal. He is trying to qualify his operation as agricultural, because the
product that he's creating is used for agricultural mostly. I submit that he also sells and
intends to sell more of it, but really if you look at the operation -- the operation, that's
industrial and it's out of place in the zoning. So, hopefully, that provides some clarity.
Agricultural product. Industrial operation. Maybe a comparison would be -- I don't think
any of you would allow Simplot to build a fertilizer plant on that site, even though the
products it creates would be for agricultural use. The second point is that he has
exceeded the original development agreement, as has been mentioned by several
people, and that there are no enforcement mechanisms around that. Complaints have
been filed and, basically, nothing can be done about it and yet he is wanting to expand
and grow under a development agreement, which means this operation will get bigger,
louder and more obnoxious, but still with no recourse for the neighbors around. Third
point, I sense a severe lack of trust in Mike Murgoitio by all the neighbors. I don't know
him personally, I'm not here to impugn his character, all I can do is observe him in the
interactions I have had, which has been three neighborhood meetings, two of them
being the official required ones, one being the voluntary one and two public hearings,
including the one tonight here. Through those operations -- observations, excuse me,
need to -- not just me, but several people -- less than straightforward with us on several
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questions we have had about its operation, shifting into positions and proposals and
only giving lip service to our concerns. The regional development agreement and
amendment that was heard at the last hearing were drafted to be wide -- as wide as
possible that said upon approval he can do whatever he wanted without any recourse
for us and this new proposal as has been pointed out isn't any better. As with
everything, it is based only on his word that his plans for odor, noise, and safety will be
effective and it will be enforced, but because of the lack of trust and belief in him, no
one believes that, A, he was to carry out fully or, B, comply with it. Lastly, sad to say, I
think there is a severe lack of trust in you and this process. It's been laid out very
clearly by multiple attorneys and dozens of neighbors and your own staff, that this
operation shouldn't be allowed at the site and, if anything, should only be able to
operate under a CUP for ag only at a much smaller scale than it is today, let alone what
is being proposed. Last hearing a proposal was submitted with last second verbal
changes. It should have been voted down and forced to go through a cup application
process. I just have a couple sentences left. Also, as pointed out by the attorneys, et
cetera, you have failed to enforce and uphold your own code currently with regard to the
zoning, DAs, and CUP and so it leaves us the question how we can trust you to follow
the law when you haven't to this point, especially when it's your responsibility as elected
officia ls to uphold it and how can we even expect you to listen to us when the majority of
us don't even live in the Meridian city limits. This proposal will affect a large number of
people, not only inside, but outside your jurisdiction and the fact that it's got to this point
is very troubling too many people. So, I just respectfully ask that you vote this proposal
down and even cause the applicant to scale back his operation significantly and apply
for a CUP in order to continue operating. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I know there is more testimony and I don't have a question, I just think it's --
it's important that we put something that's on the record and I have heard a lot of
inferences tonight and comments about questioning that you can't trust the City Council
and that makes me really really sad. Likewise, we would never say that we can't trust
the public. Trust goes both ways. I trust that when the applicant gets up here that he or
she are being forthright, just like when everyone of you get up here and testify, I trust
that you're going to be forthright. So, I would hope, whether you live in Meridian or not,
that you would trust the City Council is elected to represent the community as a whole,
to listen to both sides of this issue and to render a decision and at the end of the day
you can choose to agree with that decision or not, but I really take exception with the
repeated commentary that is questioning the integrity of this City Council and so I would
ask that for the remainder of the testimony, you're welcome to share your thoughts and
feelings, but if we continue to question the integrity of individuals, that to me just is not
representative of our community whether you live here or not. So, I would ask
respectfully that you continue to provide your testimony to the issues at hand and -- and
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not defer to salacious or inflammatory comments, because I think that takes away from
this public process, which is designed to be respectful and kind. So, Madam Mayor, I
apologize for interrupting the testimony, I just -- I think it's important that we level set
before we continue on with further testimony.
De Weerd: I think one -- one point that it might not be understood is we have to
consider every application that comes in front of us fairly and respectfully. So, we don't
go out and pick what the applications are, but this Council does have to listen to
everyone respectfully and give it its fair and due consideration. So, I think that probably
is an important clarification. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Ryan L. signed up to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Larsen: Good evening. Ryan Larsen. 4312 South Leonado in Meridian.
De Weerd: And that's Ryan?
Larsen: Ryan Larsen.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Larsen: Yeah . So, in typical millennial fashion I have to have my phone instead of a
printed piece of paper; right, so -- so, I oppose the expansion of the Timber Creek
project for the following reasons: Number one. This area is not zoned for industrial
use. In my opinion the zoning rules are supposed to mean something. People rely on
the zoning rules and make life decisions based on these rules. Number two. The
potential for unwanted and unpleasant smells, which are associated with this type of
facility, especially one that will be this large. Number three. There is a brand new
regional park less than a mile from this location. It would be a shame to have the smells
make this park unenjoyable for all the kids after spending -- spending hundreds of
thousands of dollars, if not millions -- I don't know the cost of this project, but I imagine
it's very large.
De Weerd: Millions.
Larsen: So, there you go. Millions. Thank you. This has the potential to make this
park unenjoyable for everyone. I grew up in Minnesota and all of our landfill, compost
areas, were many, many, many miles out of town. They were always in remote parts of
the county. Why does this project need to be so very close to the regional park, people,
and subdivisions? Number five. There is a plethora of growth in south Meridian. They
are building on all sides of me. East. West. North. South. And this project, if it goes
forward, will impact everybody new, as well as the existing current residents. Number
six. If approved the negative ramifications will always be there 24 hours a day and the
smells and your nose goes with you wherever you go. Number seven. Potential loss of
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enjoyment of home and quality of life. I love this time of year. Fall. It's probably the
best. College football. It gets cooler; right? Eating out on your patio, sleeping with the
window open, it would be a travesty if I'm not able to open my window and sleep
anymore or eat with my son out on the patio because of the noxious smell. Overall --
overall I oppose the project for the above seven reasons. Thank you for your time and
consideration.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ryan.
Coles: Sheila Miller, signed up to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Miller: Good evening. Sheila Miller. 4170 North Azalea Lane, Boise. Madam Mayor,
Meridian City Council, the land I'm speaking about does attest -- does abut -- abut with
Mr. Murgoitio's land. Much of this land has been in my family for over one hundred
years. Though I did not grow up on this farm my dad and my uncle did. My sisters and
I spent nearly every holiday, most weekends during hunting season, weeks in the
summer. We floated that canal. Learned to ride horses. Feed the livestock. We
gathered grandma's eggs, even though we hated her chickens. We picked up so many
rocks we thought Grandpa Harvey was growing rock. Traffic on Lake Hazel then was
scarce. We did hear an occasional tractor and truck, cars on the road and guns during
hunting season. The neighbors were long time single families that usually grew enough
food to feed just their families. Yet times change, families move, farms are sold and the
land is subdivided. New families move to Ada county to injure -- to enjoy a rural
lifestyle. The area now is a fair -- is a nice mix of single family homes with families that
live in their homes. They live there. And some remaining farms. Changing the zoning
of Mike's land to a greatly expanded industrial designation is going to change the
character of this area. A change that allows for an increase in trucks, tractors, grinding
of concrete and its smell -- it is an industrial business, which does not belong in a family
populated and zoned area, but it does belong in a lesser populated area. A change in
character cannot be mitigated ever and I would just ask the Council to listen to all the
fine people that testified tonight and how much they put into their -- their dwellings and
their homes and their -- and their farms and this is -- there is a legal, but there is also an
emotional attachment to this area. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sheila.
Coles: Rachele Klein signed up to testify.
Klein: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council. Rachele Klein with Republic Services.
2130 West Franklin here in Meridian. And I wasn't sure if I was going to testify, but I
think after listening I just want to bring some clarity to some of the things you have
heard tonight. We run an industrial use property about a mile from here. We have
owned it for six years. It's been there for quite a long time. It's the Meridian transfer
station and just a couple of points I want to make tonight. DEQ permits sites like ours
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and -- but Central District Health regulates them and that's a very serious job and they
do come in unannounced. They check in regularly. There is an odor mitigation plan
and we have to follow up on that. That's -- that's not subjective, it's very objective, if you
-- if -- if someone calls in and complains we have to look at what was going on. I can
only speak for our operation, but I would assume -- they are strict with us, I would
assume the same would apply to Timber Creek as well. But, you know, we -- we run a
compost facility in Portland and -- it's actually Corvallis. It's called Pacific Region
Compost. We were the ones who suggested that odor complaint line -- because we
have one there and we are good neighbors, so every time that a complaint comes in we
look at exactly what's going on, if we are grinding, if we are wind rowing, what the wind
was like -- you know, we take all those things into consideration and we amend
regularly to make sure that we a good neighbor and here, you know, we have growth
surrounding us with the transfer station and, you know, we -- we take that seriously as
well. People complain and the health district -- we welcome them out anytime and they
do check in multiple times per year. DEQ comes once a year. The health district comes
regularly, checks to make sure we are compliant and I know that right now that this
operation might fall under that threshold, but if he changes use that there -- there is
regulations surrounding that and the food waste part is actually not post consumer food,
it's -- it's probably scrap, which is probably the same thing we are allowed to take. So,
it's -- it's really produce scrap, it's not post consumer meat. There's no meat and bones
and things like that, it's -- it's trimmings from preparing meals of just produce only and
so just to bring some context to what you have heard tonight, I want to make sure you
know that you can coexist peacefully and I know that they are an old Meridian family as
well. I think you have heard from quite a few tonight. They may or may not say it. I
mean what they are proposing is actually a competitive site to ours. We run the Boise
20 miles south compost facility and what Timber Creek is proposing would be a
competing site with ours, but I can't think of a better family to bring forth a project like
this and we would welcome them to the industry. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Rachele.
Cavener: Can you give us kind of a summary of the different type of materials that you
take in at the transfer station?
Klein: Sure. Councilman Cavener, that -- on a daily basis we take municipal solid
waste. We take dead animals under a certain weight. We take in -- gosh, we take in
wood. We take appliances. We take in recyclables. Like cardboard and, you know,
plastics and aluminum cans and things like that. So, it's really -- it's designed -- with the
exception of household hazardous waste, which is only collected Mondays from noon to
7:00, everything else that you can take to the landfill you can bring to us. So, tires and
everything.
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Cavener: Garden waste.
Klein: Yard waste. Yeah . Commercial and industrial and residential waste.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Klein: Thank you.
Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no others on the sign-in sheet indicated
that they wished to testify. However, many, many others did sign the sheet, so I can
read all of those names at this time if you would like me to do that or if there is a
different way you would like to handle that.
De Weerd: We do have that in the record. I would ask before we ask the attorney to --
to have his remarks -- is there anyone else who would like to provide -- just one.
Blitman: Mayor de Weerd and City Council. Brenda Blitman. 8460 South Locust
Grove. I'm one quarter mile south of the property. So, I'm just outside the permitting
process -- or the notice process, so I didn't get notified about any of this activity. You
should have letters from me, though, in your packets and a couple of points that I would
like to make. In the packets is that your Planning and Zoning team is recommending
that this not be approved. These people have lots of training and they understand the
process and I think one of the reasons that they are not recommending that it be
approved is because of the process that Ms. Klein just described, which is the
conditional use process where you go through and have DEQ and have Central District
Health be responsible for making sure that the rules are followed. In my experience
development agreements are very loose and -- and the city has very few teeth to follow
up on those development agreements and I'm worried by not having the proper legal
processes in place that there won't be any monitoring of this site. I have been at my
property for 17 years. I'm a farm girl. I grew up three miles from this site. Very familiar
with the normal agricultural smells. I would say that composting wood is different than
the manure, so it's just a different smell and a different process that we have had for the
last three to five years. In my packet that I submitted online there is pictures of the site
that Ms. Klein mentioned, that's Boise city's composting site. The windrows are six to
ten -- six to eight feet tall, which is very different than the 25 to 35 feet piles that we see
outside our windows. So, I'm thinking that -- that I -- I'm less worried about the
windrows that are eight feet tall than I am about this huge pile that in the last ten years
has burned twice for long periods of time and all the toxic stuff came out. So, the other
thing is you will notice in my packet I did some math for you. fifty-six garbage trucks,
ten to 25 cubic yards are in a garbage truck, which is three to nine million cubic feet of
garbage a year. So, that's a lot of stuff and it seems to me like that's more industrial
than agricultural. So, that's my testimony.
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Yes, sir.
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Anderson: Good evening. My name is Monty Anderson. I'm at 1730 Suzanne Drive,
Meridian, Idaho. I'm just north of the feedlot and I have been there about 16 years. I
would like to ask these police officers to kind of watch me, because I think I'm the only
one of the neighbors that's for Murgoitio. So, that could be unfortunate. Yeah. Just a
joke. What I would like to talk and stress is sustainability. I have been involved in
agriculture for 57 years. I was raised on a potato farm. I was the first one to go to
college. I have been going into processors for two years. Thirty-five years I'm still are
in the processors. About ten years ago some of our customers -- and, Tammy, I mean
we are direct competitors with your -- your husband, but I know him well. We are
sustainability in a noncompete passion. About ten years ago our major customers
McDonald's, Sysco, the shareholders, asked about sustainability in not only potatoes,
but farming, because we cultivate -- we look at all crops. I led that effort for the potato
PSI. It was the first time that we got together as an industry. We had five processors
Lamb Western, Heinz, which is Ore-Ida, Simplot, Basic American, Cavendish, Sysco,
McDonald's. The IPM was to the National Potato Council, Canadian Potato Council and
I can go on and on, but I think the key is with sustainability. Growers are being --
especially small growers are being forced many different things. We looked at our
growers and they were asked -- you can ask 500 different things to do and it was
growing to a thousand. So, we took -- we took the bull by the horns and we developed
the first worldwide one sustainability initiative and I can tell you that I'm proud of Mike.
His father, Gary -- my great grandfather also homesteaded and we -- they called it not
sustainability, they called it survivability, and so Mike's taking this to the next level. He's
doing this out of necessity for their -- their operation. I like the definition of
sustainability. The ability to keep making what they make. And so I think that's what
Mike, Tor i -- the Murgoitio family is doing. I'm a hundred percent favorable for them. I
know there is a lot of people here that are against them, but I can guarantee there is a
lot of citizens in Meridian and other corporate folks that would be for them, so they can
have a way -- a way to -- to recycle their -- their -- their waste and when we talk waste
-- my family was one of the first to feed potato waste way back in '50s. We built a
potato plant and so we have been doing this for years. I think Gary's been feeding corn
to his cattle for years and years. We talk about food waste. They keep calling this
industrial and maybe the coin that that -- I would call it sustainable. So, anyway, I guess
I would strongly recommend that we approve this. It sustainable. It's the right thing to
do. As far as character, I think we should be celebrating Mike and Tori Murgoitio
family's honesty, integrity, charisma, their innovation, entrepreneurship, taking it to the
next level. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. In the very back.
Jantz: My name is Ken Jantz. I will be nice tonight. I refer to your --
De Weerd: Thank you, Ken.
Jantz: -- to your processing facility or Murgoitio's as a dump. I'm sorry. I haven't
changed my opinion. I live at 8440 South Locust Grove Road, diagonally across from
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the processing facility. My wife and I and family have 111 acres. I'm also agriculture.
You guys -- you, the city, will be my neighbors -- or are my neighbors. How would you
like it if I put in a swine raising process for which you had no authority to stop? I could
go to the county. I wouldn't do that to my neighbors. Mike's doing it to us. I went to his
-- let me -- let me talk first about the amendment. Broadly -- a lot of people talk about it.
I'm going to make mine short. Broadly, the amendment development agreement limits
Murgoitio to do whatever he says it says. Think about that. Have your attorneys read it
close? There is lots of or otherwise, self monitoring -- I'm curious about the weather
station he's going to put in. So, is he going to run a weather station or is the city?
When he runs the weather station it will do whatever he says it should. Another
question. I have the parties to the agreement. There is lots of LLCs and the attorneys
know that LLC stands for limited liability company. Usually those are used for tax
reporting purposes, but many times they are used for what the LLC stands for, limited
liability. So, my question is has some financial expert reviewed the financial statements
of the companies listed in the amendment agreement? I think you should if you haven't.
The other issue which was brought up earlier is like facilities and I heard you guys
comment about shutting down a gravel pit last meeting I was here. This isn't any
different. And that concrete that was laying out there in the yard, if you looked at that
last picture that was put up there, it's still there. He just knocked the pile down. You
could have covered it up with something. You won't be able to see it. It may be already
covered up. And he added a 16 foot high wall in the last two or three days. Okay. I will
hurry up and get done. I have one more real issue. The property that he claimed to
own for all these years, he didn't. They bought it from -- they got it somehow from Greg
Johnson, who had planned a residential area a few years ago, before he decided not to
do it, and, anyway, Murgoitios ended up with the property. So, that property hasn't been
Murgoitio property for more than about a half a dozen years and in fairness to all of us
in this open committee meeting, I'm going to ask a question, which will make you all
mad. Have any of you received gifts, campaign contributions, or have any contractual
arrangements with anyone by the name Murgoitio? If you do, please, recuse yourself.
Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I will answer you. I don't know why it would make us mad. No. I did take a
Spanish class in eighth grade. I think it was his aunt was my Spanish teacher. So,
that's my only other relationship with Murgoitio -- from his family. But no other -- no, no
contributions. No other benefit.
De Weerd: Okay.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: I have not received any contributions or have any contractual agreements with
anybody named Murgoitio. However, I must disclose I think we are friends on
Facebook. I could double check.
De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry. This -- this young lady first, Greg. Thank you for that
clarification. We were left wondering. Good evening.
Harris: Good evening. I think I'm doing something wrong, because last time I was here
my name didn't get called either, but before I start my time I just want to tell you I'm
really sorry to hear about the death in your family.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Harris: My husband passed away from cancer just a short time ago and it's hard. So,
my thoughts go out to your family and especially your mom.
De Weerd: And mine to you.
Harris: Thank you. I'm not going to speak as eloquently as everybody else. I get up at
4:00 in the morning, so I'm a little bit on the tired side.
De Weerd: Can you give us your name and address?
Harris: Oh, I apologize. It's Andrea Harris. I actually live in Kuna. I'm at 649 East
Raison Court. It's a new development called Patagonia. And I found out about this
from the homeowners association, which brought me out here last time. I'm new to
Idaho. I came from southern California, with a brief stop in Arizona, and I was
temporary live -- I can't talk. Temporarily living in Meridian and I didn't know the area
and when we moved from Meridian to Kuna that was the first time I took Locust Grove
and it was kind of a surprise, because when I saw this gentleman's property, to be
honest, it looked like a dump. It really did. And I asked why in my paperwork didn't -- it
did not say that I was near a landfill, because that really is what it looked like. Some of
the pictures I see, they just don't look -- it doesn't look like that and, sir, I'm being
respectful and I'm -- you know, I'm -- and I'm nice all the time. I really am. So, that's the
first part is it really is an eyesore. It truly is. The other thing I want to address is the
traffic. It's just a two lane highway and I use that to go back and forth from Kuna to
Meridian. I can't even imagine what it would be like with all those trucks, those
commercial trucks on the road. Somebody spoke about the turns and I have been
behind some of those trucks and it's just not the right setting and I don't know how to
pronounce your name, sir, so I will just say Mike. It would just -- you sound like a great
person, an entrepreneur, you have got all these great ideas, but it just seems that this is
the right -- maybe the right idea, but in the wrong location. The other thing I want to
address is a fire. The fire hazard I suppose. When I came from Arizona I was in a small
mountain community called Happy Jack. It was all homes on about -- each one was on
about two acres. The only business, if you will, in the development was a fire station.
Exactly one month after I moved to Idaho -- I'm on -- I have been with the Red Cross for
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almost 30 years as a volunteer. One month to the day I got a disaster call to go out to
Arizona, because a fire burned through that development and the fire station was right
there. Thirty-two homes burned to the ground. Thirty-two with -- the fire station was
right there and I drive around Kuna and I drive to Meridian, I don't think I have ever seen
a fire station anywhere near this development. I can't even imagine if there was an
issue what would happen and we hear about these -- the fires and I have been to
Hurricane Katrina, I have been to all of those, but when someone you know is impacted
it really hits home and people that I know and love lost everything. So, I don't know
what the fire mitigation -- three seconds. Oh, my goodness. What the fire mitigation
process is -- can I please talk just a little longer?
De Weerd: If you will just summarize.
Harris: I will. You know, we -- we began the evening with an invocation and I would ask
everybody to use your wisdom when you make your decision, but the Lord also says he
is not looking for how much stuff someone has, he's looking at the relationships that you
have with the rest of humanity and, Mike, your neighbors, your friends, they are
standing up and begging you -- begging you that you're impacting them so negatively.
Go forward with your idea, but just do it in a way that everybody is going to benefit.
Thank you for letting me speak and I appreciate your time. Thank you, everybody, and
good night.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Johnson: My name is Greg Johnson. I live at 2037 East Terza in Meridian. I did own
this property for about 15 years. I did submit an application to Ada county to do a
nonfarm development on it and these same neighbors, all that you have heard tonight,
most of them were opposed to that one acre lot subdivision with 75 percent of the
ground remaining agriculture. They said it was much too dense. They said there would
be way too much traffic and they said that it would ruin their wells, because we would be
drilling wells for residential homes and we were also required by the Ada county to put
in a sewer system, rather than septics, and so I did not develop it, because it was
uneconomical. It's interesting, though, without the opposition of the neighbors it
probably would have been developed and they wouldn't have this issue, because there
would be homes where this has been proposed. I also am in favor of it, because it's
applying for a short window. Mr. Murgoitio knows that development is coming this way.
He only plans on being here I think approximately ten years. It is very beneficial to the
building community to have a place that we can take building materials from our job
sites that are now garbage -- we used to have to haul it to the landfill. It cost a lot of
money to haul it that distance to the landfill. Plus we paid a dump fee. The estimate is
we spent 1,500 to 2,000 per house to get rid of our garbage at that time. That is now
saved, because we have a facility that's close and we are also not filling up the landfill
needlessly, because it's being recycled. I think those are very good benefits for our
community. I agree that eventually it should be moved out onto the desert or
somewhere more appropriate for industrial, but on a temporary basis of ten years -- and
ten years is really pretty short. We will probably grow now that the sewer is available in
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this area, it will fill in from Amity to Lake Hazel in about a ten year period of time. That's
consistent with Victory to Amity in the previous years and I think we are growing about
as fast as we can grow right now. We are using all the manpower we have to build
homes and to build subdivisions, but we can't go any faster. So, I would say Mike
Murgoitio has been a very good neighbor. He's always done what he said he would do
as far as I'm concerned and I have had dealings with him over the last 15 years and
with his father. They are great citizens. They are good farmers. They are good people.
And now Mike is proving that he's a very good recycle person.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Johnson: I would very much support this on a temporary basis. And maybe we are all
crazy, but developers are not shying away from this area. They will -- this will develop
and the Murgoitios will eventually move out to an industrial park or some other place
with this operation.
De Weerd: Thank you, Greg. Council, any questions? Yes, Denise.
LaFever: My name is Denise La Fever. I live at 6706 North Salvia Way. As everybody
knows, we are painfully going through the process to change the Comprehensive Plan
and curiosity got the best of me on this one and I was looking at the process in which
this went through and when I was looking at the documents I noticed that this was an
annexation application originally at H-2015-0019, 41 parcel application -- owners came
together, of which the middle of those -- it was surrounded by the middle of people that
chose not to join the application. So, there were owners in that process that chose not
to annex. Gary Murgoitio -- I probably slaughtered that -- signed a declaration of
consent to annexation. He chose to do that. During that process the folks that all got
together and worked with the city chose to go back and have proposed zoning of R-4,
R-8, R-15 and C-G. They went through the public testimony process and the
development agreement is part of that process. Okay. In listening to all the residents
that have talked, it's kind of clear to me that there was some kind of operational creep
that went on in this process. There would be no need for an application if there wasn't a
desire for change and when I went back through -- and this is what's causing me to
stand up here today. When I went back through and I -- and I actually looked at the
development agreement, it looks to me like it changed in nature and went from an R-4
with the current operations to it almost looks like it's changing to industrial. Personally I
think this would be better as a rezone application. To deny this and ask them to do a
rezone application as industrial. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Yes, sir. And, then, we will get to the representative in the back
and we will -- I like your ring tone. That was the best one I've heard for a while.
Fish: My wife.
De Weerd: I'm not going to go there. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
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Fish: She was wondering why I was out so late. I apologize for that. I tried to turn it off.
De Weerd: That's not a problem.
Fish: My name is Lance Fish. I live in 2904 North Brumby Lane. I'm retired. I was in
the land development business for about 40 years. I did a project with Greg and I did
several in competition with him, so we didn't always get along, but I happen to agree
heartily with his comments tonight. The people in this room that have homes out there -
- I think we have come down to the core problem, they are worried about property value.
They are not worried about smell or anything else, they are worried about their property
value and what's going to happen is Mike's going to get a good business going and he's
going to move it out of here. He's got to establish a reputation, establish a program with
all the committees he's working with and, then, he's going to go south. He's going to go
out there in the desert somewhere where you can get really big and make some money,
but he's doing a good job of what he's doing and he can't do it for much longer. Ten
years. And by Gary's side of that agreement he ensured that the City of Meridian would
get -- be able to build their park on Lake Hazel, which they are currently building,
because they were about ready to be cut off by the city of Kuna in the annexation
process. He also insured Meridian would have more property to grow for residential.
Some of the last, quite frankly, because you're totally surrounded by other cities. So, he
actually did these people a favor and I'm telling you that property is not going down in
value. They may have to wait a year or two, they won't be able to buy the new Cadillac
and the yacht and all that stuff next year, but when it comes up and -- and -- and the
odor goes away and Mike quits doing it there, they are going to be worth a lot more, the
City of Meridian is going to have more residents and everybody's going to be better off
and I drive by that property several times a week and I'm not seeing the dust and stuff.
Columbia Road has a lot of trucks. Columbia Road is a collector road for the valley. It's
bound to have a lot of trucks. How much construction is there going on in Meridian,
Kuna Road, and where is all the gravel coming from. It's coming right down Columbia
Road from the gravel pit by the airport. That's not caused by his project. There is farm
trucks out there. There has been farm trucks out there a lot. You don't raise farm
products to store it on the farm. You raise them to haul them off and sell them. That's
been going on for years. So, they have always been there. This project is not
increasing their traffic flow. It's high this summer, but look at the crowd. Anyway, I'm for
it. I think we ought to leave him alone. I think we ought to let him do his stuff. I think he
will be successful. I think he -- he's improving our environment by not leaving this stuff
land in the garbage dump for 50 years and decreasing the air value and everything else.
So, that's all I will say.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I guess before you we have one last person.
L.Murgoitio: Lou Murgoitio. You can tell by the last name that I'm related to him.
Murgoitios have been around a long time.
De Weerd: Can you share your address.
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L.Murgoitio: 7373 South Maple Grove Road.
De Weerd: Thank you.
L.Murgoitio: Now, development will happen. I have seen it. I farm all these places. I
farmed the Miller parcel. The nice green hayfield over here. I farmed next to the canal.
I go by Mike's facility every day. Locust Grove. Lake Hazel. Columbia. You know, it
really -- I would like each and every one of you -- he is not going to be here forever in
that location. It's just not going to happen. The development is going to drive it out of
there. I mean that's the reality of it. Now, if you're going to live out in the country -- and
I have told this to a lot of people -- by golly you better put up with some of the country
amenities that go along with it and if you think it's going to devalue your property, I got
news for you, your property values aren't going to go down unless there is a big
economic crisis that makes it do that and so everything I have heard tonight, you know
what, I have got to tell you, we have been around a long time, too, and there is a lot of
dumpy places out there besides my nephew's Timber Creek. My dad said it best. Real
estate is a precious commodity. You got a young fellow trying to get his feet under him.
He knows he's not going to be there forever. He realizes that. You know, just like
Lance said, the previous speaker, getting his feet underneath him, he's going to -- he
knows that. It's not rocket science. I haul a lot of chips out of there for my operation. I
farm all around there. Just -- just -- I just want each one of you to honestly look at the
big picture here and I know you have heard a lot of, you know, complaints from the
neighbors -- I'm telling you that, the kid's trying. He's trying to make a go of that and I
would just ask you Council Members to really think about the big picture here. He is not
going to be there forever. I would answer any questions that you got.
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Thank you. Just after your ten minutes we will
take a break.
Leonard: Thank you. I could have used that before my ten minutes. See what I can
do. Mayor and Council, my name is Josh Leonard of Brian Webb Legal, represent
several of the homeowners and neighbors of this facility. The address is 971 East
Winding Creek in Eagle. I want to start really quickly. Council -- Council Member
Borton made an important point and pointed out an important problem in this case. A
development agreement is between the city and the landowner. There is not a means
of enforcing against a user. That -- the city would be beholden to that landowner to
enforce against the user or the person that's operating on that property. Council
Member Borton, you asked if there was a fix to this problem and there is. Require a
CUP. A conditional use permit. That way it's -- it's against the user, the applicant, and
it's enforceable against the user applicant, not the landowner. It doesn't end up that the
property gets de-zoned and de-annexed and kicked back to the county, which doesn't --
doesn't hurt this operation. Anyway, I want to -- that's how I wanted to start. I also
wanted to mention -- and I apologize, I'm going to butcher your name, Council Member -
-
De Weerd: Milam.
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Leonard: Milam. Thank you very much. The operation is allowed to exist on the
property and that's -- that is correct. But it's allowed to exist at the level it had as of the
date of annexation. If we can pull it up, I have a picture that shows that. An aerial.
While that's pulling up I will -- I will forge ahead a little bit. Meridian's development code
generally prohibits industrial uses, like the applicant's, on residentially zoned property.
The existing development protects his right to continue his use as it existed. The
picture you see here is an aerial taken from Ada County GIS that shows the extent of
that. If I could get the next slide. Just click on it. Thank you. This is how it looks now --
or this is how it looked in July. You have heard testimony from neighbors -- great
witnesses all of them, because they live there. They drive by on those roads every day.
They see this. You have heard testimony that it's grown 200 or 300 percent since 2016.
That's actually not allowed under a development agreement. You can't do that. But
there has been no enforcement to take him back down to where it -- to the size it should
be. Some other pictures. You can see the construction waste here. Tires . He said
he's removed those. The concrete that has been -- the pile's been flattened down. The
applicant's heavy use is already expanded beyond what was allowed in the existing DA,
but now he's saying trust me, I won't go beyond the next development agreement. I
won't go any bigger if you will just let me grow to this point. It didn't work before, why
would it work now? Why should we trust that now. And I apologize, Council Member
Cavener, for -- for bringing the trust into question. It's not about him as a person at all,
it's about the operation and about the neighbors who have been relying on him and on
his word that this wouldn't grow and they have watched it grow and so there is distrust.
It's just the way it is. The development code and the development director -- the city's
development director both called this a heavy industrial operation. That's why the
additional notice was sent out to everybody. As a heavy industrial use it's expressly
prohibited. If it weren't for the CUP option that's in code, he wouldn't have a way
forward, because it's flat prohibited. It's -- even with a CUP he's not allowed to grow,
except that he existed and an existing use can expand by obtaining a CUP. The reason
why a CUP is important is enforceability. It's also important because there are several
conditions that are required by code that go along with the conditional use permit. For
example, site screening. Not a bunch of skinny trees along the road. A site screening
fence that's -- that -- that -- so you can't see the trash, the junk that -- that's in there.
The trees are what's called vegetative screening and it's to screen the wall, not to
screen the junk behind it. It's to beautify the wall. He will be required to maintain all the
grounds in an orderly manner. A key one is that he would be required to locate all
mechanical equipment and operations, power driven processing equipment, operations,
shipping and delivery areas and outdoor activity at least 300 feet from any residentially
zoned area. Because this is a residentially zoned area that means the outline of this
parcel. That's a 300 foot setback from all of his property lines. He doesn't do that now.
That's what the neighbors are asking for. They are asking for you to comply with -- with
Meridian city development code and make him comply with Meridian city development
code. Another thing he would be required to do is to pave all driveways to mitigate dust.
Instead of going out and making mud, adding water to dirt, we are asking that he pave it
as is required in -- in Meridian city code. He would be required to store no unsorted
material -- these are quotes out of Meridian city's development code. He would be
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required to store no unsorted material outside. You have to build shelters for it. Like the
transfer station that was mentioned. The transfer station is an indoor facility. Stuff
comes in and, then, it's transferred out. It doesn't sit there and rot. That's what this --
this facility does. That's especially -- that's what compost is. It's rotting. It's developing
into thing -- into nutrients. That -- that's just the fact of it. He would also be required to
identify how the proposed heavy industrial use will address noise impacts and other
emissions before the city signs the DA, not after it, not when he changes up and goes
and gets a tier two, he would be required today. He would be required to obtain written
statements from all federal, state and local jurisdictions that -- not just that it complies --
the use complies or that he's subject to their jurisdiction, but that the subject property,
the proposed heavy industrial use, the site, the facilities, the structures and the
equipment involved all meet every applicable standard and he would be required to
mitigate all noise, odors, vibrations, blowing, debris and other materials. There is no
authority in the Local Land Use Planning Act or in the Meridian City Development Code
to ignore these requirements. It's mandatory and it's mandatory that he get a CUP.
Council Member Palmer, to your point earlier talking about -- I think we were talking
about the -- the Children's Museum was up and you mentioned fiscal responsibility. I
would encourage you to read that section in the memo that I provided. I apologize it
was late this afternoon. Suffice it to say this application, if approved, could be a money
pit for the City of Meridian as -- as the city defends against the law -- against the LUPA
judicial review that my clients have directed me to file. I don't want to see that happen.
I don't want to -- I don't want to waste money on lawyers that could be spent elsewhere.
Is everybody -- before we go on, is everybody clear about the Right To Farm Act and the
fact that it doesn't apply? I don't want to waste time on it if there is any questions. Not
only doesn't it matter whether it's industrial or agricultural, the Right To Farm Act is
designed so that when the residential area grows and a farm stays put, the residential
area doesn't drive out the farm. The opposite is happening here. The residential area
is staying put and the trash -- the trash pile is growing. The application came from
them. So, the Right To Farm Act just doesn't apply, even if this was an agricultural use.
I want to take a moment and compare applications. I want us to talk a little bit about
Boise city's 20 miles south farm. I want to point out the location on the map. It's about
10.5 miles out -- way passed -- way passed this location. I want to point out Boise city's
composting facility. That's a one mile radius drawn around it. The red circle being the
composting facility. See what -- what's there. It's all agricultural. It's all farms. They
use this compost there. This is the one mile radius of the applicant's site. I'm going to
go a step further. There are -- depicted are all of the houses within one mile of the
Boise city site. There are zero. These are all of the residences and houses located
within one mile of the applicant's site. There are over 65. Different site. The Boise site
-- I also want to talk about applications. The Boise's application included so many
details it -- honestly, it was -- it was tough to get through. It included about 45 different
studies and -- and technical papers that were not included in this one and yet it's 10.5
miles out in the country. It's not in the middle of a residentially zoned area. Somebody
said we need to reset. Council Member Cavener, I believe that was you. We need to
level set. Excuse me. And to get some context. I'm going to bring some clarity to what
the standard is here. The applicant doesn't have any right to expand. His rights are
protected by the development agreement. The only -- the only rights that -- that are --
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exist in this situation or the residents. They have a invested property right and a vested
interest in what happens out there. The applicant's asking you to give him more than he
deserves and to encroach upon their property right to do it and that's fine and the
reason why a CUP is important is because it requires mitigation from him and if he can
put forward enough mitigation that -- that the resulting negative effects are insignificant,
great. All you have heard today as testimony that the resulting effects are not
insignificant. I'm going to break down testimony really quickly in the last 20 seconds or
so. I heard two types of testimony. I heard, A, the applicant is a good guy, a good
businessman and I heard the word sustainability. That's one type of testimony. The
second one was the negative effects of the applicant's proposed heavy industrial use,
even considering the minimal mitigation effort of the applicant, will be terrible. It will
negatively affect the quiet enjoyment, the property values and the character of the
neighborhood. All will be significantly negatively affected. To leave you I want to say
one last thing. This isn't a situation of not in my backyard. The benefit of having
property zoned residential is that it's not in any backyard. Nobody should have to deal
with this. This isn't the situation where these neighbors are saying don't affect us. They
are saying don't affect residences. Don't put this in a backyard, let alone 65 plus of
them. Ask you to deny this application. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. We will take a ten minute break, so we will reconvene at
10:20.
(Recess: 10:10 p.m. to 10:20 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and reconvene our meeting. Okay. Just wanted to
make one last call. Is there any further testimony? Okay. We will ask for the applicant
to give us their wrap up remarks and respond to some of the items that were brought up
during the testimony and, then, we will entertain questions from our Council.
Murgoitio: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of Council. First of all --
De Weerd: Just restate your name and address.
Murgoitio: Sorry. Mike Murgoitio. 7695 South Locust Grove, Meridian, Idaho. 83642.
Managing member of Timber Creek Recycling. So, first off I want to start off by saying if
this composting facility were to start tomorrow we would only be composting the current
leaves that are on the site, which is about 20 to 25 thousand yards. The expansion we
talked about with some of the other stuff is capped by the truckload. Or the other things
-- all the industrial guys that are in those industrial parks in Ada county, every one of
those guys have called me this year for relief for their piles. Every one of them. And I
have not violated the DA, I disagree wholeheartedly, with the amount of material that
has come in over the past -- since 2015 or when ever the development agreement was
agreed upon. You can go to Ada county -- that's where I got those numbers from. I had
her e-mail me exactly every single yard and leaf that came in. That -- over the last --
since I started the contract. Those are where those numbers were pulled. Those were
not pulled out of thin air. Those are their numbers, not mine. The plan -- as far as food
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waste goes, the food waste that would be coming in if approved would have the -- two
things that would have to happen is it would have to have a city, such as yourself, come
in and say, yes, we want to be a part of this composting operation. Part of that
percentage of material that comes in, that food waste, is only ten percent. It is also --
the material that comes in is associated with carbon, which ties up the odors and which
is required to be ground up very quickly. DEQ specifies exactly the dates and times on
that. The feedlot odors and smells that my feedlot does is extremely minimal compared
to other feedlots in the area, because of the carbon content we put with the manures. I
challenge you to drive by any feedlot in the valley, compare it to mine and I guarantee it
will be a better smelling feedlot than anyone out there and it's due to my management
with our carbon. We will be not composting dead animals. That is absurd. Compost
piles will be in the similar size to Boise city, meaning when you grind it, windrow it, you
have to have a window turner designed to do it to that -- that size. We will be doing --
matching exactly what they are doing. My goal is to continue a healthy relationship with
my neighbors. I don't think there is any one of those neighbors in the past -- since that
site's been there, since I have been going there that I have ever turned away a neighbor
and said let's not have a cup of coffee or talk. I had an individual come up to me after
the meeting, I was excited, thought we were going to meet in the middle somewhere, all
they told me -- we sat down, we had that cup of coffee and they said, sorry, you seem
like a really nice guy, but can you pack up and move and I said you don't have any room
to kind of work with me on and they are like, no, we just think it's the wrong spot. So,
that kind of attempt failed. But I will still extend the offer for them to come out and do
that. The transfer station wood is outside. It is not inside. Again, that two to three
hundred percent is bogus. I would say check the records of Ada county. Let's see.
Boise city's site that they compost on is trucked out there, composted, and hauled back.
How I know this is I have an agreement with Republic Services to do some of their
hauling back into town. So, I do know their carbon footprint would not be the same as
this. Justin.
Cranny: Justin Cranny. Hawley Troxell. 877 Main Street, Boise, Idaho. Just a couple
of quick comments I wanted to address today. If we go back to the original -- the
original development, the one that's currently in effect, I would like to read some
language to you. Section four of the agreement states: The right to use and develop
the property shall be in accordance with the terms and conditions of this agreement.
The following uses are specifically allowed Section 4.6. Any use constituting an
agricultural operation as defined in Idaho Code 22-405-2, that's the Right To Farm Act.
If we go to that act, so -- well, it may not be -- contrary to assertions it's not applicable.
It is. The definition applies. What is an agricultural operation? Plant byproducts. Plant
waste. Plant compost. Keeping livestock. Transporting agricultural products.
Processing and packaging agricultural products. It sounds like what we are doing.
That's an agricultural operation and permitted under this original DA. That's what we
are asking. Furthermore, you can operate Timber Creek on the property as is currently
conducted or may be conducted in the future. We have some rights here. While they
may be running in and you have to comply with R-4, R-4, R-4, there is some existing
rights that we have under this development agreement that is effective and valid. We
are really not seeking to do much more than we are already entitled to do. Ag definition.
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Again, been hammered again. What's ag? What's industrial et cetera. et cetera.
Right To Farm Act defines an ag use as what I just said, you know, doing plant waste
and plant compost. The case that was cited and attached to the memo, that was a
jurisdictional fight. That wasn't defining what is ag and what's industrial, that was who
has jurisdiction, DEQ or Department of Ag. That's not really defining who is able to -- or
who defines what industrial use is, who has the right to governance. And Timber Creek
has zero objection to whoever has the right to govern, gets to govern over this -- this --
their -- their operation. Claimed to be detrimental. We have heard that incessantly
today. Surprisingly, until this amendment came up that had never been a complaint.
We asked for public records requests from the City of Meridian and from DEQ saying
who has complained? Like we have never received any as Timber Creek. Who has
complained? I filed today -- or with the city clerk those records that were received.
About three. All were found baseless. One point I did want to bring up. The 16 foot
walls were raised. There -- there is a new 16 foot wall on the property. It's a pile of
haystacks. Timber Creek was trying to say what else can we do to mitigate the visual
and noise impact. Let's put up some hay. We have recognized that when we are
driving on that lot, you go behind the piles of the ground up mulch, the sound drops to
negligible. Hey, if we put some -- some hay up it will block the site, so, hopefully, they
can say it looks like it's an eyesore and the hay will block a lot of the sound. Well, now
they are complaining about the wall. No matter what we do we get hammered.
Regulation. Again, we are for additional regulation and restrictions on what can
happen. Under the old original development agreement -- like I said, two pages of
documents -- or two pages of language about what Timber Creek can do. It's mainly
what they can do. There is no real restrictions. We are offering to say, hey, we will take
the additional oversight, we will take the additional restrictions on what we can and
cannot do. We are trying -- we are trying to address these issues. The site out in
Boise. There is a stack of requirements we have to go through. You have to do all
these things. They take biosolids from waste facilities. Not doing that. That adds an
additional level of regulation I'm sure. We are not doing that. The amendment versus a
CUP. We were told to do an amendment. When we came to the city they said the
amendment is the proper process. We -- we discussed this at the last hearing. What
do we do? Do we go with a rezone? Do we go with the continued amendment. It was
decided to keep pursuing the amendment, because end of the day we do a CUP, we
have notice, we have a neighborhood meeting, we have to jump through some hoops to
make sure that we mitigate any impact -- that's what we are doing. We have had
neighborhood meetings. We have talked to the neighbors. We are trying to mitigate the
impact. End of the day, a CUP amendment to the development agreement -- kind of
same place. So, okay, do we have to jump through additional hoops to get to the same
place. I think not when we were told to do this amendment and we try and put in as
much protection as we can. Additional complaints about it being loose still. It's a
business operation. We are trying to maintain a level of flexibility. We have added all
those levels of protection. We are trying to make sure that this isn't a loose goose, that
it doesn't expand the two or three hundred percent that's represented, which hasn't
occurred. We need to make sure there is some flexibility in the operation. Lastly, you
know, repeatedly stated, this is a grandfathered use. This is a grandfathered use. You
can't expand it. Well, to the contrary, Idaho law does say grandfathers can expand to a
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degree. Natural growth. Now, you can't quadruple in size. Yeah. That's understood.
Idaho case law -- I can provide the citations if you like -- does allow for expansion of a
grandfathered use. Furthermore, your own code provides that if you want to expand
additional area even, not just -- if you had the grandfathered use, hey, we want to
expand it to additional property, that's doable. Now, you have to jump through the
hoops, but it is doable. So, we are here trying to jump through the right hoops, trying to
get the issues and the complaints and the potential impacts mitigated. We have set
them out. We have described them. If there is further revisions to City Council would
like to see, we are happy to take it into consideration. But right now, after the last
meeting you said no more moving targets. We have solidified our position. We have
given you the amended development agreement. We have given you a solid target.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you again, Justin and Mike. One quick question for me. Would you guys
be willing to move the sunset clause from, you know, at a smaller number than ten
years?
Cranny: Madam Mayor and Council Member Bernt -- Trent . Bernt. Wow, I'm on a roll
today. It is a late night. I apologize. Apologize to both of you. Really sorry. We set the
window to 2030 for one specific reason, with this site, should Timber Creek want to
enter into a contract to start bringing these materials on, to achieve tier two composting
and bring these recycled materials in and compost them requires a ten year contract
typically. It wasn't a willy nilly decision, like, let's see, let's, you know, roll the dice. It
was a couple of years to get -- jump through the hoops with DEQ and the Central Health
Department, get the operation plan in line, find a contract, get going. That will give us
the ten year window. That's why we did it. If you're open to -- I think that's the basis for
the 2030.
Murgoitio: Are you thinking like -- I mean half probably wouldn't be doable. It has a -- it
has to do with the equipment has to be purchased, the site planning. When you -- when
you build a site you go through a process with DEQ that you basically have to have the
whole site engineered. It's just a very costly deal. But it's one of those deals to where --
to me if development comes it offsets those costs. So, it's not -- to me it's like -- the ten
year deal is kind of floating for me, it's not a locked-in deal. If I got a developer standing
there with a contract in his hands saying, hey, I want to make you an offer on this, you
want him to leave, I'm out the door. So, I don't have to, you know, lock into that ten year
deal.
De Weerd: Other questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: One thing that I hadn't caught when I read through the strikeout underline was
the -- the words about the weather station. Somebody brought it up. Can you tell me
what the weather station is and what your use for it would be?
Murgoitio: So, the weather station is a tool that we use for taking care of an odor
complaint or monitoring where an odor complaint could be coming from, so when DEQ
calls up and says, hey, we got a complaint, so we have an accurate daily monitor of
those -- those wind directions. So, basically, if the -- the person is over here, wind
direction is directly here, you know, we can go over here to this point and draw a line to
see exactly where that odor was coming from, as well as monitor different things as far
as, you know, rain and the -- the compost pile, to manage it properly you have the right
moisture content, heat. When there is -- your feedstocks, which are your different
carbons, your nitrogens or your greens and browns, there is a whole -- it all meshes in
with that plan with -- with DEQ.
De Weerd: If you can give it to the clerk.
Murgoitio: So, that right there is a temperature probe. So, we probe the piles. It's
about -- anywhere from a four to six foot probe. It goes into the pile and it monitors
what that temperature is at that location and those are used -- that's what we are
currently using on our site for our woodpiles, because when you ground and add water
it's a delicate balance between dust and a fire hazard with -- with the wood. So, we use
those tools very often.
De Weerd: I think the clerk is pulling that up. Does that make it clearer?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I'm curious what other materials Becky has to share with us. No. Yeah , just --
it was someone -- something that somebody brought up and just curious what exactly
that was.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Mr. Borton.
Borton: Thanks, Madam Mayor. As a follow up to -- I think it was Councilman Bernt's
question on the termination, there has been remarks about, you know, a temporary use
and you have made gestures now that -- that may certainly be your intent. The
language as written doesn't have any sunset clause at all. There is -- there is conditions
on the recycling that if those were to occur, which may never occur, then, that use would
stop and, then, for the -- the composting really isn't a termination clause as written. So,
if the intent is to have some date certain by which all uses shall cease, that's different. I
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just wanted to be clear. If that's what you're saying that would be different than what it
says.
Murgoitio: We wanted to leave it open for -- we don't know what this economical cycle
is going to do. So, to say deadline it at ten years, eight years or 12 years, I don't want
to put myself in a box to where, you know, it's not a part of my long-term plan.
Borton: Sure.
Murgoitio: Right? So, we are trying to put the literature in there as such, not to be so
open as you say, but as trying to word it to where it does have a sunset clause without a
binding way of either side, in a way to where it's, you know, more towards the
encroachment of development.
Borton: So -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: I think I get it. It sounds like it's like being sort of pregnant, which you can't do.
Right? I mean some things sunset or they don't and that's what I struggle with. If, in
fact, it's -- we are talking about termination and it just come up because there is so
many comments about, you know, it's a temporary use, there is going to be a change
and -- and begs the question if -- if these mitigation efforts are -- are sufficient, well,
then, why not be a permanent use? And why wouldn't it be appropriate to be there for
50 years or 60 years? It seems as though the focus is on the temporary nature,
because we recognize that these incompatibilities -- we may suffer with -- for a short
period of time, maybe the benefits outweigh the costs, and if there is a true sunset
clause, then, we can rest assured long term the region successfully develops. But as
written it doesn't say that and that's the reason for the question.
Cranny: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, you're correct, it was a misnomer to
say it's a sunset. These are conditions that will cause the termination of the
development agreement and the right to conduct the recycling activities. It's not a hard
date.
Borton: I agree.
Cranny: Now, the question is -- there is two options. You gave us. No hard dates -- or
no date at all. Let's do it permanently, which I don't think anyone here really is
interested in, especially behind me, or we say -- we set one that's so short that it makes
it -- that it's not feasible. So, the question would be, you know, what -- what's the --
what's the hard date going to be. We could come up with that. Again, you know, this --
what's the economic -- economic climate. If there is a huge downturn again, well, there
is going be no development. So, let's keep doing the use. If there is -- if there is not
one and the growth comes quicker than expected, and he gets that contract in hand in
five years, he's gone. So, it left it subject more to kind of what was represented, it's
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organic growth of the City of Meridian and the development. It's keyed to that. So, if it
grows faster, great, we are out sooner. If it grows slower, well, then, we are a little bit
longer.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Woke myself up. So, remind me something that I think you said probably in
opening about the sunset clause. That it has to do with -- I guess to Councilman
Borton, the difference is you have a hundred acres with one house on it, as opposed to
one acre with four hundred houses on it or whatever. So, that there is a certain amount
of feet that as soon as one house is built within so many feet you're gone; right?
Cranny: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Milam, the one condition you're talking about
is when there is a C of O granted -- I'm sorry, condition of occupancy granted within a
thousand feet of the grinder. Now, again, to keep with the organic growth, instead of a,
hey, I have got ten acres, let's do a quick subdivision of five and put up a little shack and
get a C of O and they are out, this was to say when the natural growth occurs. So, we
added some requirements to make sure that it's that organic growth and not just this -- I
can trigger this now.
Milam: Madam Mayor, follow up? So, you just move the grinder?
Cranny: Michael can answer this.
Murgoitio: The window of where that would be would be too small to operate the size of
piles that you're talking about. It would be impossible to continue the amount of volume
that comes in with just simply moving the grinder.
Milam: So, in essence, as soon as growth comes out and a house -- the CUP -- if it was
within a thousand feet you're done. You're not just going to move the grinder
somewhere else and continue.
Cranny: Madam Mayor, I think given this position, if -- if it would make the Council more
comfortable -- and, again, not to move the target, we can add language that as soon as
it's done -- you know, the grinder cannot be moved to an alternate location on the
property. Would that -- would that appease some concerns?
Milam: I'm sure it would --
De Weerd: Okay. I'm sorry. Any other questions?
Murgoitio: Thank you very much.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I hope we keep the public hearing open maybe from lessons learned. Before
we maybe jump into some deliberation I have got some questions for legal. There was
a question raised earlier from a member of the public inquiring to the Council's
relationship with the applicant and I appreciate the question being asked, because I
think it only improves transparency and goes back to my earlier comment about trust.
So, the question was who on this Council has a relationship with the applicant, Mr.
Murgoitio, and so I will be the first to say that I know Mike. I met Mike and his wife when
I was campaigning last year. We bonded over our -- our enjoyment of farming. I grew
up on a farm and I would be so proud to call him a friend and I don't know if he could
call me one, but I bet he would. I also think it's important to know even though it's a
public record and you can go look and see where all my donations came from, Mr.
Murgoitio donated to me. So, I think it's important that you know that. That said, I have
been on the City Council for five years, I have voted in favor of applicants who have
donated to me, I have voted against applicants who have donated to me. I have voted
in favor when the public who have donated and knocked doors and have been my next
door neighbor -- have come and testified. I voted against applicants where were
neighbors who have knock doors and donate to my campaign have come out and spoke
in favor. One of the things that I have learned being on the City Council is that every
decision we make we are going to make somebody mad and with that comes a little bit
of freedom, because you are able to make what you believe is the best decision. So, I
can't remember who it was, but I appreciate you asking the question and I think it's
important for transparency that I share that with. As we continue deliberate as Council I
don't want the public to have a thought or a fear that because I have a personal
relationship with somebody that that impacts my decision. You can go back and look at
my record and you can see that I have made good friends, good neighbors happy, I
have made good friends, good neighbors angry at me. It just -- it comes with being part
of a citizen led City Council that inevitably somebody who you know, you have a
relationship with, is going to be before you. So, I just thought it was important to put
that on the record now. Madam Mayor. A question for --
De Weerd: I didn't hear a question.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I do have a question, though, for Mr. Nary. In the testimony
there was a question raised about the legality of this application and that we -- it should
just come through as a CUP and I was hoping you could respond, maybe give Council
some -- some clarification on that.
Nary: Thank you. Madam Chair, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener,
lawyers tend to disagree on occasion and may have a different perspective of the way
the code reads. We have never required a development agreement to go through the
CUP process to expand or to change, even if the change could have required a CUP in
another context. So, the process we follow today is the same process we followed as
long as I have been associated with the Planning and Zoning or the City Council issues.
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So, every condition that was requested by Mr. Leonard could be incorporated into a
development agreement. Mr. Leonard raised a concern that the only provision in the
code regarding development agreements is the annexation. What the code says is
when you agree to a development agreement you consent in that process to being de-
annexed if you violate the condition. It doesn't say that is the only remedy that you
have. That is generally the remedy we use, but it's not the only one. So, if the Council
decides in favor of this application and wants more specific requirements placed in the
development agreement, you can -- you can direct that. Those weren't provided to you,
because the staff recommendation was denial. So, everything that's been requested
could be done in the development agreement. The CUP process doesn't change
anything and it's my reading of this code and our UDC that it is not required to do that.
It wouldn't change the outcome of the process, because you would still have notice, you
still have neighborhood meetings, you still have a public hearing and you still have
conditions of approval, so that the requirements of the CUP are no different than the DA
can be, it's -- again, it's a contractual relationship between the city and the applicant.
The applicant can be directed through the property owner and the signers of the
agreement, which can be the operator. So, all of those things can be incorporated into
a DA. We haven't done that, again, because the request was denial. I hope that
answers your question.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council or staff, the applicant, or any of those that
provided testimony? Or I guess I would ask Council if you want to take any additional
testimony.
Cavener: I'm in favor of it if it's important. Yeah.
De Weerd: If you would , please, state your name again.
Gibbons: Loyal Gibbons. 8350 South Jardine Lane. One really quick thing. It goes
directly to your question. Our lawyer -- or the lawyer touched on it briefly. The only
people who own land zoned within the city -- within the thousand feet are the applicants.
So, they have the golden ticket to keep it from not developing until they decide to.
Everybody else who might develop is either in the county still, you know, hasn't been
annexed, so it's -- it's a quilt around there. They are the ones in control of that. So, you
should know that.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I guess that just brings up a question for clarification and -- is that only if there is
growth within a thousand feet in Meridian city limits or is that -- does it say a thousand
feet in any direction?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary?
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Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so, the development agreement, Council
Member Milam, is only directed to growth within the city. We have never in my time
ever required or made conditions based on other entities or other jurisdictions approval.
Predominately because the city has no say in those approvals. Many times we don't get
notice of those approvals. We may not even know they have approved a residence
within that thousand foot zone that's in the county until they are moving dirt. So, we
have never required that in any development agreement that I have done since I have
been here.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Borton: Does the applicant get the last word?
De Weerd: The applicant will get the last word. I thought maybe you should finish your
discussion in case the applicant needs to respond further.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: So, appreciate the input and comments on every side. I think it's of great value
in this process. Taking a lot of notes, walking through the details of this -- the
development agreement, it's -- it's hard not to get lost in the details and the minutia of
every shall versus may, but it's really the only way to make anything like this successful.
Everything hinges on shalls and mays, especially if there is not set termination dates
and amongst the list of mitigation issues that were discussed to try and address what
otherwise would be unacceptable conditions, we discussed requirements of inspections,
hours of operations, manner of composting, termination clauses, truck counts, smell
mitigation, sound mitigation, site mitigation, landscaping, dust mitigation, fire mitigation,
DEQ compliance, all of which seem to -- to try to address what otherwise is -- is an
unacceptable circumstance for this area. The -- the takeaway is these exceptions seem
to be the tail wagging the dog for this particular use for me. In light of the fact there is
not a hard end date for this type of use at this location, that -- that is of interest, because
that doesn't exist today and if that's some of the trade off that would occur, it doesn't
sound -- that's not in the development agreement today. That's not what's proposed
and it doesn't sound like it's possible to make a hard deadline, at least from what I have
heard so far. So, I think the existing use is grandfathered, which is not to be expanded.
I think that's what's most appropriate. So, I am not -- not in favor of amending the DA as
presented for those reasons and the fact that this very well may continue in perpetuity,
you just don't know.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: I guess where I have a little bit of a hard time with that, as I understand, we
don't want it in perpetuity, but growth is going to come out that way. Locust Grove is
going south and -- and that's where the ten years came from. That was an estimation of
how long it would take based on previous -- the previous mile. So, I don't -- I'm not --
that doesn't bother me so much, because of -- because we know that growth is going to
come, unless there is a huge -- the only way it could function longer is if the market
crashes again and the building stops and -- you know, and, then, there might not be an
industry for what he's doing anyway, so it still may stop. I guess the biggest issue that I
have with this -- and I -- I have listened to all of your testimony, I have read all of your
letters and I truly care and I don't want you living in -- in a dump. However, I have been
out by this place and I was pretty impressed with the way that it was kept up. The
property would not have been annexed had we not asked the Murgoitios to annex for
the betterment of the city and I think that if they were in the county and they weren't --
hadn't annexed into the city, they wouldn't be -- there are not as big of restrictions within
the county, this may not be such an issue, they probably could have had this expansion
done and approved a long time ago, but they are having a hard time, because they did
a solid for the City of Meridian and that is what the hardest part for me is and I think that
they will do better -- unfortunately, there are small number of homes that will -- that may
possibly be negative effect -- may negatively be affected, but they will do more
betterment for the community as a whole than the damage that they would -- that they
could possibly cause.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for Council Member Milam. Can you just for the sake of the record
disclose when you were out at that facility and when that timing occurred?
Milam: I had a tour of the facility -- it was about a year ago, maybe. I am the liaison to
the Solid Waste Advisory Commission and went out to just look at the whole operations
of the facility to see if this -- they were trying to decide, the Solid Waste Advisory
Commission, to start contemplating composting for home garden waste, because we
have -- had a lot of community members -- Meridian citizens ask for that service. So,
that was the purpose of the tour that I went on was really just drove around and looked
at how things were set up and I didn't notice any -- the cattle to me has a lot more smell
than the composting that we are discussing, but that to me -- if I was a neighbor that
would be what was bothering me, not -- the composting was fine. I was really
impressed with the quality of the -- of the setup and the organization of everything. I
was very impressed.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
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Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I tend to agree with Mrs. Milam and what the family has
done. Probably the biggest thing right now that seems like we can serve everyone is
the fact that if they are allowed to go to the next tier, then, there is so many more
sideboards on it, because it seems like none of the issues are going to really be
resolved without more odor control and more things that will come into play if they are
actually larger than -- rather than continuing on with the exact same thing that they have
been doing, which is grandfathered in. So, I'm -- I mean this is a tough one, but that
keeps coming back to my mind, that there is more sideboards and more regulations,
you know, to go to the next step and people keep talking about odors and things that will
be under control of even -- I don't remember which -- what we were told -- Health and
Welfare, something that really surprised me.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I do agree that that's -- that is a good point with regards to the -- the benefits
that come that don't otherwise exist with its current condition. The tipping point for me is
-- is a date certain on termination to use. There is a mechanism and there is gestures
that maybe there is going to be comments to that effect, but a date certain where the
recycling and composting all ends, I think that's what makes this successful long term.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just some food for thought around the date certain, because like Council
Member Borton, I have -- I have wrestled with that particular piece and where I -- where
I think I have come down and get it, I still don't quite know where I'm going to be on this,
but on this piece related to the date, the reason why I support development action, as
opposed to date action, is none of us have a crystal ball, none of us knew in 2008 that
we would be as booming as we are now. Likewise, in 2004 nobody knew what Meridian
was going to be like in 2008. If we as a body support and approve this use, I think it's
development that should end it, not a specific date, because if development moves
faster, well, then, Mr. Murgoitio, should we approve this, is going to need to move
someplace else. Likewise, if the economy falls out and development in that part of town
slows or stops, he can continue to operate as -- as Council would permit. So, I would
rather see growth be the driver to have Mr. Murgoitio relocate than a specific date on a
calendar for me personally.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, I think a couple of statements have come up that if this property
were in the county it would be allowed to expand. What -- what is the process for that
and -- and when it's in an area of impact what consideration do they give? Can you
answer that?
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Nary: Probably only part, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So, if this was -- if
this was not annexed property into the city, there was earlier statements that it was not
an allowed use in the county. I don't know that. I mean what they were doing was
already being done in the county. Whether this particular type of approval could be
gained in the county -- I don't know if planning knows either whether or not that would
be allowed if this wasn't in the city. So, they certainly could apply, I just don't know what
the county standards are in regards to a composting facility. Obviously, they approve
them, because the Boise city facility we have talked about is in the county. But it is in a
different location. So, I don't know what county standards would apply and whether the
composting would be allowed in the different -- in this if it wasn't in the city. I don't know
if Sonya has any idea either. I don't know. I'm sorry.
Coles: And, Madam Mayor, to answer I think the second part of your question, when
activity occurs within our area of impact, but it's in the county in our area of impact, the
county does notify the city of a pending application and does allow the city to provide
comment on that application. So, if that were to occur we would be -- we would have
the opportunity to provide comment.
De Weerd: I guess I go back to Councilman Borton's -- you can't be half pregnant and
we are going through a comprehensive plan update and, you know, either this is
industrial or it's residential, it's -- and you maintain what the nonconforming use was,
rather than expand it. I do think that we need a solution to food waste and recycle
waste and -- and to have a sustainability model, not just at the landfill, but that another
one on the south side. Does it belong in the middle of the city? I don't think so. This,
before we annexed it, it was -- it was identified on our Comprehensive Plan as low
density. So, you know, the R-4 designation is -- is a little bit higher use and the low
density at that time was considered more two to the acre to transition from the Kuna
area and to have some kind of a transition zone. If it should be considered industrial,
yeah, I just feel like we want our cake and we want to eat it, too, and we want this
higher density or higher impact use of industrial until we get a good price to redevelop
as -- as residential and I guess that's what I struggle with is that one property -- and you
heard that in testimony -- is going to dictate all the uses around it and limit that until they
get a better -- a better offer. So, I think that the question in front of the Council is do you
want this as industrial or do you want it as -- and there is a process for that or do
you want it as residential, which is already contemplated in both the annexation and the
long-term Comprehensive Plan. So, it will impact the neighbors. To think that it won't --
but I do think Mrs. Little Roberts did raise a good point that Mrs. Milam also brought up
is with the regulation through DEQ and Central District Health, the expanded use is
going to have greater regulation than the current use. And that just made it clear as
mud.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
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Borton: I'm kind of chomping at the bit to hear what -- of what this comment might be to
either thumb up or thumb down and some concepts with termination clauses. Is that fair
to --
De Weerd: That's why the -- that's why this public hearing was still --
Borton: Needing more comment amongst the Council, but --
De Weerd: And they still haven't had their last word, so -- no, they didn't.
Murgoitio: Mike Murgoitio, Timber Creek Recycling, managing member Timber Creek
Recycling. Sorry. It's late. I don't know if you could pull this back up. This is a
neighborhood impact. Yes . If you would pull that back up. To your point, Madam
Mayor, Commissioner Borton. To your point, you wanted some more -- you know, what
you're saying is basically we have all the tools in our toolbox to keep going and no, you
know, such ways for others to really dictate, you know, what we are doing. We are --
we are willing to take the properties from a thousand feet, if it hits the processing area,
not the grinder, the compost, it's done. So, I think that's a little safer for the neighbors
and it's something we think is close to what we were thinking of doing anyway is fair.
So, as she pulls that up -- if you see right in the center where it's outlined is the
processing area, that whole outline right there. Basically to north, if the city -- like, you
know, he stated, the -- the grinder, just have it be in the processing area, so --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: To clarify that, like do you own the property a thousand feet -- okay. So, it's not
in your hands, like --
Murgoitio: No.
Milam: -- as has been --
Murgoitio: No, it is not. No. We do not own -- we farm it, but we do not own it.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: So, I think that the big gorilla in the room right now is, you know, what dictates
this decision going forward. Is it growth? Do we wait for growth to -- to put Timber
Creek in a position where they move or do we -- or do we go by a contract that's -- that's
closed and very defined that lays out, you know, whether -- I guess in this case it's a
development agreement and so with those -- with those two options in mind, my gut
tells me -- and I lean more toward the development agreement. If this were a similar
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situation, similar project inside -- inside our city limits down the street or whatever,
somewhere closer to where development currently is, I feel like we would have a
different point of view. I feel like, you know, maybe we wouldn't be about growth, maybe
it would be more about, you know, what is stated specifically in the development
agreement. So, in my -- in my opinion I -- I favor a strong sunset clause somewhere,
sooner than later, and that -- and hence my question that I asked earlier. Mike, you
know, do you favor something, you know, three years, five years, that gives you an
opportunity to go out and try to find another location and I know that's not something
you -- that you -- you -- that you stated, that it's not something you're interested in doing
for various reasons, but, you know, not having something -- having total -- almost is -- I
guess is to better control over that area without having an exact end point makes me
nervous. It makes me nervous as a -- as an elected official, who, you know, makes
decisions based upon the betterment of the community and so I don't like open ended
anything period. I don't -- I don't want -- I don't like, you know, hypothetical situations
being discussed based upon is growth going to dictate this decision in two years, five
years, seven years, ten years. That to me it just is a recipe for disaster and so I'm not
saying I'm for or against, I -- you know, it's getting late and -- but that -- I think my
sentiments fall more in line with -- with Councilman Borton right now, so --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I don't see why we couldn't do both. You give -- you do it with the -- with the
distance, knowing that it's probably going to happen within ten years, but put a hard
number at like 24 or whatever the number -- 2040, which gives him that extra ten year if
-- listen. Or a thousand feet, just like it says now, knowing that that will probably
happen in less than ten years unless growth stops, so it only allows that, but it gives a
hard number, it kind of takes care of both issues.
De Weerd: Okay.
Milam: We are still going back -- Madam Mayor? Right now the contract states with -- it
says a house -- a permit -- it's getting late. A C of O within a thousand feet of this whole
area. Now he just expanded -- a thousand feet of that whole area they are -- they are
done.
De Weerd: Okay.
Milam: That still stays. I'm not taking that out. Or the latter if that never happens, that
means growth completely stops, which I think everybody in this room knows is not going
to happen, but it just gives a hard number -- because there is some people that feel --
De Weerd: Can we -- can we not have a two-way dialogue, so --
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Milam: Sorry. The only reason to put it in there is to not leave it open, because the way
it's written right now it's open and it could be just renegotiated after ten years. It could
be renegotiated for another ten years and another ten years and another ten years.
This puts a hard end date on it if the other one had not been met. You know, if the
thousand feet had not been met, then, it goes out that far. That's not going to happen.
It's just to close up the paperwork. I know.
De Weerd: No. I'm -- I'm sorry.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: So, thanks, everyone. Appreciate your patience. Here is one of the
challenges, because we are really, really in the weeds on this project and we can go
back and forth. So, it's not trying to be rude, but what happens procedurally -- all the
nerdy stuff, right, if we open up for more -- additional comment, it never ends. Right?
And we understand and it's not -- it's not that we don't want to hear or receive additional
input, you made your points. Very well received. But we will, in fairness to everybody
up here and down there, we would be here all night and we made that mistake in other
hearings with good intentions and it goes back and forth and the applicant and pretty
soon nobody's happy. So, we will be kind of equally rude to everybody by -- hopefully
you understand and appreciate that's what we mean when we are trying to move this
along, to quiet the comment from the crowd. So, I don't mean to be disrespectful, but
for understanding --
De Weerd: I guess, Council, what is baffling is we plan cities and the county plans for
these agricultural uses. This is annexed in our city. It's in our area of impact and if this
application were in front of the county at this point we would be very concerned that
there was consideration being given for this kind of an industrial use in our area of
impact and this is unusual -- it's highly unusual that we have the situation that you look
at it in any other -- in any other scenario I can't see that the City Council would be
considering it, which is why you have the recommendation from our city staff for denial.
It's not contemplated in our Comprehensive Plan. It would -- it's really hard to enforce,
even putting a sunset. It's hard to enforce that it gets expanded. It's -- it's an anomaly
that we haven't seen before and that's why we are going to be clunky in our
discussions, but if it were -- this -- this is a needed -- a needed amenity for Ada county
and it's certainly something that's needed for our citizens and we do respect the
Murgoitios and -- but we -- we are looking at land and we are being asked to consider
something that is not -- has not been considered in any of our planning processes and
we are being asked to consider it for temporary and what temporary means is not
defined either. So, I think we are going down a real dangerous path in -- in what we are
considering at this point when you look at what we as city planners are supposed to be
doing. If we want industrial use in this area, then, we are updating our Comprehensive
Plan and this is the time to -- to consider that as a permanent use in that area, if this is
something that we really should contemplate.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I don't feel that I need any additional information. I move that we close the
public hearing on Item 9-G.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those
in favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we approve H-2018-0042, with the modification of the development
agreement with the following amendments: Under 6.8.2 where it states that within a
thousand feet of the grinding machine located on the recycling property, to be changed
-- there is two points in there where it mentions it -- to be changed to within a thousand
feet of the processing area -- for Mr. Nary to put the appropriate language to that effect,
or approved otherwise.
Milam: That's it?
Palmer: Point eight point two.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Councilman Palmer, are you sure you don't want to throw 15 years in there as a
secondary hard close date or anything? Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Milam: Is other Council --
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: While I would love to, just to make people feel better, again, we -- as
Councilman Cavener pointed out, nobody has a crystal ball. I -- I would bet that this
doesn't last that long, but should the economy tank and we get back into a situation
where there is no development, still a few miles north, only development, then, the use
should be allowed to be continued.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: It's actually Councilman Borton that is -- that is the hard thing, so -- I'm good
with it the way it is. Because I think there is going to -- growth is going to happen in
probably less than ten years. It could happen in six years. The way that growth is
happening in Meridian it's probably going to be -- it would be like next -- it will seem like
tomorrow.
Cavener: Call for the question.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: We speak of growth and there is that consideration, but there is a lot of
residents already near and around it that we have heard from and are subject --
subjected to what could come from the expansion. So, even without growth there is lots
of individuals who are impacted should it expand. I'm not -- I'm not supportive of the
motion for a couple reasons. Just process wise -- again, a contract like this is
everything and every shall and may -- if anything went forward, even if the public
hearing is closed, is it would be tabled with direction to legal staff to try and come up
with language which articulated some of the concerns that Council raised. But
extremely dangerous to approve it, even with good intentions here. I think taking time,
should something go forward, would be more appropriate and, then, let us read the
language and every shall and may and could, because that kind of ties me back to the
second point that -- that absent the hard stop I can't support it and if it had provisions
where the recycling activities and composting, which I think encompass the entire scope
of it, that it ended at the earlier of some development activity within some proximity of it
or ten years, for example. If it's earlier, then, fine and, then, the applicant is, obviously,
willing to move should development activity be quicker, but the public and everyone else
will also know that there is a date certain and that is a benefit to the region that doesn't
exist today. So, as -- as -- as presented I don't support it, but changes -- again, the
reason that the applicant doesn't -- isn't willing to have a hard date and that's well within
his prerogative, I understand it, but the trade off is that the status quo in my mind
remains. So, as to the motion that's why I am opposed.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just I guess maybe a comment. In kind of reading through the tea leaves
amongst the Council, it seems like there is some support for passing a version of the DA
that's before us. We do a better service to the citizens and the applicant to -- as Council
Member Borton's pointed out -- continue it for a couple weeks to allow legal staff to
clean up the language, so that both the public and the applicant have something that --
that is maybe a little more clearly defined. While I shared earlier my desire to have this
be development driven -- and Council Member Borton brings up a -- a very strong point
is there is -- there is a finish line and I think Council Member Milam really tried to drive
home to that and perhaps if that discussion would have happened at 6:30 it may have
come across a little more clear than it came across at 11 :30 at night and I appreciate
that. I have been guilty of that more than once. So, I am supportive of the philosophy
behind the motion, but I do think that we do ourselves a great service by building
ourselves a little bit of a better mousetrap when it comes to this. So, I don't know if the
maker of the motion or the second is willing to amend that or not. It's your motion, Mr.
Palmer, but it's something that I definitely would support a continuance for a few weeks.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Before anything would -- if something were to be amended. It's probably
helpful to get some sense if other members of the Council -- because the next thing, if
there was some consensus to try and do something like that -- we, obviously, need to
hear the applicant and if the direction is that is not feasible, then, we don't need to have
everyone come back and have another public hearing, let's just -- let's just hear that and
if that's the case, then, that eliminates the need to continue and try and craft language.
Again, if there is not a hard, fast end to this, then, I'm not supportive of it from my
perspective. So, I may be in the minority -- the public hearings is closed, so --
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt,
nay.
Coles: The ayes have it.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
Item 10: Future Meeting Topics
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De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 is Future Meeting Topics. Anything under this item? If not,
would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I know the hour is late, but I just want to say, again, welcome back. You were
missed last week. We are, the full Council, city staff, sorry for your loss and it's nice to
have you back.
De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to close -- or to adjourn. And to close.
Little Roberts: So moved.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALLAYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:26 P.M.
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