HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-08-28 MinutesMeridian City Council - MDC Joint Meeting August 28, 2018.
A joint meeting of the Meridian City Council and Meridian Development Corporation was
called to order at 4:00 p.m., Tuesday, August 28, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam, Luke Cavener, Ty
Palmer, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Board Members Present: Dave Winder, Dan Basalone, Nathan Mueller, Keith Bird,
Tammy de Weerd, Rob McCarvel, Rick Ritter, Diane Bevan and Steve Vlassek.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Keith Bird
__X___Genesis Milam __X__ Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weed: Well, good afternoon. I would like to welcome you to our City Council joint
meeting with the MDC Corporation or Meridian Development Corporation. We will go
ahead and start with roll call attendance. For the record it is Tuesday, August 28th. It's
4:00 o'clock.
Meridian Development Corporation Board
__X__ Dan Basalone __X__ Rob McCarvel
__X__ Nathan Mueller __X__ Rick Ritter
__X__ Keith Bird __X__ Diane Bevan
__X__ Tammy de Weerd __X__ Steve Vlassek
__X__ Dave Winder – Chairman
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda.
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 2 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes.
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MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 3: Presentation and Discussion of Old Meridian City Hall Proposals.
De Weerd: Item 3 is a presentation and discussion of the Meridian city hall proposal. I
will start with comments from Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Members of the
Commission. After last week's meeting we had a meeting, myself, my office, Mr. Ariel
from Community Development, Mr. Lakey and Ms. Squyres from MDC to talk about
tonight's format and, then, we did communicate that to the presenter. Trying to be fair to
the process we did advise the presenter for today that they would have the same time
period that the other presenter had, approximately 15 minutes with questions, as last
week's presentation was. We asked them to confine themselves to that, as well as to
make sure their presentation is related to the proposal as presented to the committee and
not to stray outside of what has already been submitted as their RFP. They understood
that. They advised me what -- what they intended to present and that's -- from what he's
told me -- Mr. Robinett is who I spoke with -- that was what the committee had reviewed,
so was comfortable with that, but I just wanted to let you know that was the conversation
we had prior today.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Nary. Any questions before we ask for a presentation?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just before we jump into presentation, I just need to make a quick disclosure.
Last Tuesday night after our City Council meeting a representative of the November
Whiskey project had messaged me on the Facebook to gain some greater clarification as
to my thought process related to yesterday -- or last week's decision. I informed that
representative that I thought it would be best that we wait to talk about my thought process
until after the full conversation had been answered and a decision been rendered by the
City Council. He agreed and was not trying to influence the process at all, but after
speaking with Mr. Nary thought it was important to shine a light on that on the public
record before we begin that process so that everyone here could be aware of that.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. If there is nothing further, I would ask -- Mr.
Robinette, are you making -- okay. Good afternoon. If you will, please, state your name
and address for the record.
Pape: Sure. Dean Pape, 4176 North Hackberry in Boise, Idaho. Yes. Stand here with
me.
Sheldon: And I'm Tom Sheldon from GGLO Architects. Seattle, Washington.
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Pape: So, first of all, we want to thank you guys for the opportunity to do -- try and walk
through -- more like run through the presentation that we did submit a couple weeks ago
and give you some insights on our thought process through that. In addition to that, I
want to thank the MDC and the city and the committee itself who went through the process
of looking at all these proposals for the community. From experience I know it's not an
easy process and I appreciate the time and energy that everyone put into doing -- working
through that. Do I just touch a button or -- space bar. Thank you. Okay. So, quickly, the
agenda that we will be working through today is, you know, we will talk about our
development team and the background, the vision plan and statement, the design
concept and the renderings, the schedule and general public outreach that we are looking
for this project and, then, the numbers themselves, both the accounting and the general
background of the project. So, our development team is made up of both local, regional,
national, international companies. Unlike many developers we feel it's best to figure out
what the project needs in that area and, then, build the team around that. With respect
to this opportunity, GGLO, Pivot North, GLR Engineers, CK Engineers and Kreizenbeck
Contractors were the best additions to our development team. The development team
was created with three separate individuals. Myself, Aaron Elton and Shannon -- excuse
me -- who bring different experience and different levels, both locally and regionally, with
different backgrounds in the finance industry, construction industry, and collaboration of
public-private interest -- industry. Excuse me. Public-private partnerships. Tom will
expand a little bit more on the future on how GGLO is a perfect partner for this type of
project. So, briefly, we used the context of the Destination Downtown vision plan as the
basis for our collaboration and our design and those elements that I'm sure that you guys
have seen before were key to how we were developing our plan and our collaboration of
our community. We want to build on what was a growing vibrant community with a -- with
clear goals. It was our focus to realize and outline what was in this document as a major
part of what our plans entailed -- include. It was interesting, soon after we submitted our
document there was a public -- public community meeting -- workshop? Sorry. Another
member actually was able to attend that. Which outlined almost perfectly for what our
plan was to entail. A connection with vibrant, livable, envisioning premier community,
which we believe that our project will entail to help Meridian move forward.
Sheldon: So, I'm Tom Sheldon. I'm a principal at GGLO Architects. We are out of Seattle,
although I have been working in the Treasure Valley for about 15 years. GGLO primarily
does urban in-fill mixed use projects, just like this one, and we have landscape and
interiors and planning, architecture and all of them come together to assist the design of
these projects. So, they are very, very complicated. There are about a hundred ways --
probably more than a hundred ways to do these projects wrong and there is maybe two
or three ways to do it right and I personally have been doing these for over 30 years all
up and down the coast and we are now doing it internationally because of our success.
So, all that experience is actually put together in the design that we proposed. Of all the
things that we considered there are kind of two things I have pointed out that -- go
backwards. That are important here and one is this mixed use development, we want to
attract people to the downtown. We want people to stay in the downtown and, of course,
live, work, eat, shop, play and the advantage we have is here right next to the City Hall.
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So, there is -- so there is the work there and the commuter needs. Also we want to be
able to set up a design that plans for the future. So, I'm going to go real quickly on our
process, what we do. we analyze the whole neighborhood within a quarter mile or five
minute walk. We look at what kind of uses are there, what might be some holes, how we
can fill them and, then, we move into the block and we start looking at how it might react
to certain -- certain aspects of it. On the corner of Meridian and Idaho we have a great
gateway opportunity, the image that you saw on the first page. How you relate to historic
buildings there on Idaho and Main and we deal with that and, then, also how would we
deal with the City Hall and kind of the synergy we create there. And as you can see the
yellow arrows there is about how we can bring people together for parking and uses and
office. Quick site plan. What we do is we -- we analyze where people are coming and
going. So, on the -- on the -- this year number one is where we are putting kind of a
slower quieter use, because that's a -- it's a slower, quieter use -- or street next to the
historic building on the corner where number three is. We wanted a gateway and that
was one of your components of the RFP is to create a gateway and, then, parking as you
see -- we will talk about further -- is integrated in the middle, so you don't see any parking.
It's all structured. It's all surrounded by different uses. And, then, number seven is the
important one, because we actually have a public parking where people can come and
go when you have events in front of your City Hall from your farmers markets to other
community events and the advantage of what happens here is we don't take any on-street
parking. That's left for the retail, which is very important for your retail to -- to survive.
First floor is retail, leasing, residential, office. I will flip through these real quick. On the
top of the podium we have private landscaping for the residents who live there,
landscaped with amenities, and, then, this is the -- probably the one that you may be
concerned about most or wanting more information about and that is we have a garage
right in the middle and you can see we lined up the aisles with the existing alley there and
so both ends could be open. If we wanted to continue the alley -- alley through. We have
-- have about 1.3 stalls per unit right now and we have four per thousand for the office
and, then, we have 75 for public. The key to all of this is that all uses are together, they
will work together. So, if you need 1.5 for the housing, which is -- which is what your
zoning code requires, you can -- you can feed off the office as the office workers go home.
So, it's not a single use parking garage and that's what makes this all work. This also
sets us up for the future. So, as you build this you can start monitoring how the garage
works and where the peaks and valleys are and where you might have too much parking
and not enough parking and that's how it affects when you start looking at your next
phases. So, we see phase one, how it can kind of attach to the existing structure if -- if
these properties became available and you can either add parking or use the existing
parking. There is -- we have done many of these in San Francisco and LA where you
actually build phase one and monitor how the parking garage works and, then, that
informs you how you do phase one or phase two. Of course, we are proposing phase
two. Could be where the existing parking lot is there, depending on how the commercial
-- or the public parking works. As far as design we -- we really emphasize a timeless
design, something that will be around for a while, high quality materials. That was the
gateway shot. Here is across from City Hall where you would go into the parking garage
with public art, which is important. Office buildings, different uses that complement each
other. This is a shot with the historic building you have on the corner and how our
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townhomes could work with -- with -- with the existing structure there. And, then, this is
the fun part, is how do you create -- possibly the street could be blocked off, you can have
community events. There is parking there. Possibly you change the paving patterns in
the street. So, that's really quick. Got a few minutes left. This is the -- some of the
numbers if you're interested in knowing exactly where they are, but I will leave it to Dean
to go over if you have any questions on this. I think next is kind of the numbers; right?
Pape: Thank you, Tom. In general what Tom pointed out or -- why we have GGLO as
part of our team is they bring in breadth of experience in many communities around the
nation -- internationally now working in -- in Canada and in other countries on -- on how
these products work and how they are together. So, in regards to the parking, you know,
to be successful in the -- in the community for a retailer or an office function, work that's
what we are most asking, where is -- where is my parking availability. People looking for
office space, that's one of the needs that they are going after and what they are looking
for. So, we took that into a great context of not just the success of the first project and
what might be needed as you move forward to make this a destination downtown -- people
aren't coming down here for the ability to -- not be able to park and retailers are going to
need them to park, along with office functions. So, as Tom pointed out, you get an overlap
of parking for the evening, just for someone living in the area or a daytime use working in
the area and those shoulder times where people come for dinner or evening activities to
maximize the use of the parking garage. So, our schedule in general was about three,
three and a half years, and a big part of the schedule is really to allow this first year for
community involvement. From my background in working in public-private ventures we
have found a lot of successes to make sure that you're doing some sort of outreach into
the community itself that we are not making the decisions and everyone's board is going
to have their own opinion on how that's going to be successful. Perhaps some sort of
engagement into the community to better understand what we are going to build is going
to fit within that time line, is going to fit within -- excuse me -- with the wants and needs of
the community. Not everyone is going to agree, but to get as much information to digest
to make sure it's successful at the end of the day. It's going to be extremely important for
the community as a whole. So, we are extremely excited -- the possibility to work with
the City of Meridian, its residents and business owners, downtown patrons, help make
sure that what we build will be successful in the long run. So, the numbers in general,
the cost of the project. I think the biggest thing that we want to point out is we are being
extremely conservative. Currently right now the up tick of construction and cost right now
-- it's about a half percent or six percent a year. So, if you look at a timeline of something
starting 12 months or 18 months or 24 months right now, there is quite a percentage up
tick. We took that into account and it was very important. We don't want to bring
something to the public or to a public agency and say here is where the numbers might
be, but they may go up from there and these things could change or we may not be able
to success -- excuse me -- successfully find the right financier, which we have the ability,
both on the private side and working with local banks of interest, including First Interstate
Bank, who is engaged as part of this project being a landowner and wanting to see
something happen on their property, along with the surroundings of their property and be
involved with the possibility of financing the project. So, I can walk through these line by
line if you want to, but I think in general it lays out how we plan to fund the project and the
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biggest area of question that we -- we walked through as part of our presentation before
was, you know, this MDC purchase and city contribution. So, the city contribution point,
the one thing I really want to make sure everyone understands -- this first line, we put a
land value of 20 dollars a square foot, which we think is an accountable land value and
from my understanding on working public-private ventures, there is probably some sort
of accounting function or an appraisal process you have to go through before transferring
that property to someone else and that value will have to be considered as part of that.
So, we took a conservative approach. It likely may come in higher than this, it may come
in lower, but that's the value we put. We used information that you guys have in -- on
building permits and system development charges or impact fees to come up with what
we feel that would be conservatively on those and we are asking for assistance from the
community to help pay for some of the -- the garage purchase broken down on what it
would cost to build, hard costs, soft costs, contingency financing and other -- are what we
came up with this total dollar amount. Now, 12.3 million dollars is a big ask and we
understand that. We are here to work with the group, with the community to find the best
solution to do that, so that we can build the best product possible for the long term in the
community and there is different ways that that could be done. As part of our prior
presentation we weren't -- we weren't going to tell you how that solution is, because we
weren't sure, we didn't know how the city or MDC wanted that. We came up with a couple
of options, suggested those options, we are happy to talk about those if you guys want to
view those today. Mostly is this, can we put a district inside of a district, can we rezone
this district for the long-term success of that area. I'm happy to meet with the board and
talk about some of those if you would like me to. That was a big question that we had at
our original meeting. Am I okay to move forward with this? Okay. So, as a side-by-side
comparison -- and will get into some of these deeper numbers and happy to leave some
of the documents with you today. So, if you look at a 20 year horizon on this public
parking garage, you -- sorry, I can't see under the time limit here. So, your net operating
income coming off the parking garages, as we have estimated, is just over ten million
dollars. The total TIP income coming off of just this block projected redevelopment is just
under seven million dollars and a total cost below that you would actually be above the
break even point on this parking garage. My analysis shows right now that a breakeven
and actually cash flow coming in from the parking garage and to funding would happen
right about year five and, then, I think the bigger portion that needs to be looked at is
what's the value given 20 years down the road? What does it look like in 2012? Well, it
was just over ten million dollars of value, nine plus of it in the -- in the community ask and
the parking garage and almost 900,000 dollars coming in tax increment finance -- or
excuse me -- the tax income coming back to the community in the parking revenue coming
off of the garage. We go through more breakdown, but we are going to be generally out
of time. So, I can leave this last document, which is in regards to, you know, how do you
redistrict -- or put a district inside of a district. So, we consulted with Phil Kushlan on this
-- on -- in Boise, because we are working on the same process with CCDC. How do you
do this inside of a district and we are working through the abilities to do that. But in
general here is a breakdown of the way that it can be done. And, again, hopefully be
successful there and love to be successful in doing something like that here. It is a
process that you would have to go through and the city would have to be on board and
MDC would have to be on board to work through that process.
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De Weerd: Thank you for your presentation. Mr. Nary, there is flexibility for questions
or --
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and the Commission, I mean what's been
presented, yes, you can ask questions about that. They did talk about this district idea
with the committee and the committee did consider that. They didn't have the -- the
numbers to go with it, but the committee did discuss this generally. So, anything related
to what they presented is certainly fair to ask, but I would be cautious on straying outside
of what's been -- what's been presented and what's in their -- what's in their RFP.
De Weerd: So, Item 3 is a present -- presentation allow for questions. Item 4 will be more
about any direction, action on how best to move forward.
Nary: Yes.
De Weerd: Is that correct?
Nary: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Hey, thanks, guys, for -- for coming and presenting to us this afternoon. It's
awesome. Appreciate it. I know your time is valuable, so is ours, and so I'm grateful for
your time. One question -- I had a couple questions, but one question I had right off the
bat -- I noticed in your -- your proposal that some of the buildings that -- that are in your
proposal are existing buildings owned by other people, one of which is the bank on the
corner right across the street. So, can you explain to us -- are you -- have you spoke to
them or --
Pape: Yeah.
Bernt: Okay.
Pape: Yeah. We have been in communication with First Interstate Bank in regards to
their wants and needs and the long-term use of that facility here locally. Currently they
don't need the size of building that they have. It has become a very important branch for
them, but they don't have the full office functions. They love the idea of a parking structure
and the ability to, you know, maybe retool or repurpose that building and have a sister
next to it. So, yes, we have been in communication.
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Bernt: Thank you. Perfect. Another question I have is in regard to the financing for the
parking garage and just help -- help bring some clarity in regard to your -- your big ask,
you know, the dollars. And I know there is -- I probably won't be the only one in this body
that will -- that will ask that question --
Pape: Sure.
Bernt: -- but I'm sure you're fully prepared to answer it no doubt, but as I have -- you
know, we received some e-mails, you know, that are on the public record I think, but --
and that everyone's concern is where are we going to get this money.
Pape: Right.
Bernt: So, if you could clarify that that would be great.
Pape: Sure. And -- and, again, as part of our presentation we didn't feel it was -- that we
were being asked for was show us how we are going to pay for this and that's why I have
added some additional, you know, information for conversation on how that can happen
and how that could function. Ultimately, it would be redistricting to put this block inside of
its own district and, then, the funding coming off of the parking garage for parking use
and the tax funding coming off that would go through MDC would help pay for the parking
garage as a whole. So, we are going to go out and bond finance for that, pay for it, and
the bond -- bond amounts would get paid back over the life of the district, the new district,
with a 20 year term. So, this document that I'm showing here, I have a hard copy that I'm
happy to leave with you, but, basically, it shows from year 2020 when the debt service
would be taken out as a bond structure or other, would be paid back over that 20 year
term and what happens at the end of that term, as I have highlighted in this document, is
going forward there is an asset paid free and clear and a cash flow coming off of that of
483,000 dollars. My belief and my understanding is MDC would be giving that to the city
at that point or some sort of transaction. Same thing that CCDC is working through with
the city of Boise. The additional tax income at that point -- I'm projecting it's just under --
or just over 400,000 dollars. So, the funding structure for this would be a redistricting of
that block by itself to help fund the public use -- or the public ownership of the parking
garage. Part of that public fund -- or that funding structure would be leases for the office
space, leases going back to the residents and, then, you know, transient, when -- when
the City of Meridian gets to a point where they want transient parking to start paying for
it, this would be the ultimate location where transient parking would end up going to and,
then, going out from the parking garage to go to restaurants or retail or office space,
depending on --
Bernt: Madam Mayor, follow up?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: So, basically, what you're saying is only those who are involved in -- or have
businesses or, you know, the residential portion taxes accrued through that district or from
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that would -- only that -- that -- that square block would -- would -- the money accrued or
appropriated from that would come on that -- that square block only, not the rest of
downtown or Meridian; right?
Pape: That's -- that is our assumption. That's what we have put through at this financial
analysis. That's correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Other questions? Okay. Well, thank you.
Pape: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Item 4: Consideration and Discussion of Old City Hall Proposals [Action Item].
a. The Pacific Companies & November Whiskey Properties, LLC.
b. deChase Miksis
De Weerd: Okay. Item 4 is consideration and discussion of the Old City Hall proposal.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: After -- after hearing these -- these two proposals, honestly, I couldn't -- I couldn't
be more excited about the downtown corridor, you know, it's -- it's really weird, it's been
about a year since I started, you know, talking to residents about the future, what their
thoughts were on the -- on the future of Meridian and what they expected Meridian to be
in the future and I would have to say other than the -- the conversation about growth, the
number two concern that I talked about and I received was about the downtown corridor.
So, this excites me, because there is just so many different things that are going to come
from this RFP, you know, I believe, that this project -- whichever project is selected will
be a catalyst I believe for future growth. I believe there are people -- developers, land
owners, who are sitting on the sidelines just waiting for us to make a decision and are
excited about this, because they have been waiting for many years in some cases for just
something to happen and so that's -- that's what really gets me excited, but it -- but that
said, it's important to trust the process and -- and I think that the biggest part for me is
that we voted upon a committee and that committee vetted this process and they
proposed a project to us based upon, you know, many hours of vetting and I believe that
we should stick to the -- excuse me -- to the process and what has been proposed to us
from the committee that we voted upon, at least the City Council in the City of Meridian
and I believe that waiting, you know, longer than expected would -- would only cause
consternation, would only cause confusion and a lack of trust in the process and for future
processes going forward. So, if you don't mind, Mayor, I would actually like to make a
motion. I would like to make a motion that we -- that we approve the project that was
approved -- or was proposed to us by the committee, the steering committee, and that
would be the November Whiskey project, along with the Pacific Companies, and I would
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also make in that motion that -- that final -- the final transaction or the final transfer of that
-- of our piece of property, the old city hall, I would -- I would make that motion that that
city hall isn't transferred to MDC until all of the I's are dotted and all the T's are crossed
in regard to the partnership of November Whiskey and -- and the Pacific Companies.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. I anticipate we should have discussion.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, Mr. Bernt, I couldn't agree with you more that the process is
important. The process, though, I feel wasn't that whatever a committee recommends is
automatically accepted. We have many situations throughout the city -- you spent time
on Planning and Zoning. Planning and Zoning is a recommending body. The committee
was a recommending body. The ultimate decision is left to the elected officials as -- as
the whole board here as we sit today. So, it -- it is our responsibility to hear the
recommendation and, then, to become as informed as possible ourselves and make the
best decision that's going to be in the best interests of those that we represent and so I
appreciate, you know, the enthusiasm to make a motion, but I would hope that we would
still have a -- not just discussion, but an opportunity to ask some questions about maybe
how things might work -- not necessarily of the proposers, but I have some questions for
some staff.
De Weerd: I think that's appropriate. Mr. Nary, that's -- that follows procedure?
Nary: Yes, ma'am.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, thank you. So, I -- I guess my first question would be -- so, the
-- we got an answer, you know, on how a potential funding mechanism could work for the
garage. My question I guess -- I understand we all are anxious to -- to move and -- and
have that building built tomorrow. Bill or if anybody else -- maybe MDC -- would anybody
know kind of -- be able to outline how that process might work and how long it might take
to go through it to -- to potentially redistrict it or create the district in a district -- whatever
process that would take to be able to make a bond mechanism happen?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Commission -- and I think Mr. Lakey
probably has more on the creation of the district. We went through the creation of a
district a couple of years ago with the Ten Mile area and it took not quite a year -- about
six months -- six to eight months to do that in that area alone, so -- and that was a defined
area. Here you're -- it's a much more complicated process of what we are talking about
here. So, I don't know if Mr. Lakey has a thought on timing.
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De Weerd: Mr. Lakey.
Lakey: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council Members. I was going to reference the
Ten Mile district as well. That's the process to create a district. The concept of creating
a district within a district is something unusual. My -- my main concern with that is if we
amend our existing plan that resets the baseline for our tax increment date and that,
obviously, wouldn't be a good thing for the existing district. If you create a new district,
then, it has its own baseline. The one aspect of that as well is if the parking structure is
on public -- publicly -- obviously, that's not on the tax rolls and included in any increment
revenue, but the steps that Mr. Nary described in Ten Mile where you have to conduct a
study and the city ultimately adopts an ordinance to create a new district is the process
that you go through.
De Weerd: Wouldn't the -- the increment be reset only for the footprint of the district?
Lakey: Madam Mayor, my concern is that we are amending the existing plan that we
have, because it's within that district that would cause a reset.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Concern that it could or concern that it definitely would?
Lakey: Madam Mayor and Council Member Palmer, I can't say that I have done a
definitive legal treatise on it. It's -- it's my significant concern I suppose at this point.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I just see a lot of shaking heads behind you, so -- to me, you know, my motivation
is -- is I want -- I want -- since we have two proposals I want them both to be options. Up
until the last 20 minutes it's been -- this wasn't an option. Now we have this better
understanding I feel like it is an option, but we need to be able to understand exactly what
-- how that would work and -- and how long that might take, so that we can really make
the right decision. I mean if -- if this board wants to just, you know, move forward, you
know, with November Whiskey, then, that's what this board can do, but I mean if it -- if it
takes -- I mean I nearly got hung last week for saying it, but if it takes another week to be
able to do the research to -- to definitively know exactly how that could work and how long
that might take to make happen, I -- I think another week would be appropriate to make
sure that we know what our real options are, but I would love to hear other councilmen
and other board members, their opinions, knowing this new information.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I think it's my understanding that it's not an option based conversation. I think
the MDC voted last week to render a decision about the direction that they want to go and
now it's just an answer if the City Council agrees with that and wants to accept the RFP
from November Whiskey or reject everything and I have -- I have processed that a lot
over this week, due to the action of the MDC. They have rendered their decision. They
have made their -- their choice and it's just a decision now for the City Council is do we
agree with that choice or do we not. I don't think that a week from now or two weeks from
now or a month from now -- unless it's the decision of our body that we want to reject all
proposals -- that it isn't an either or or conversation, unfortunately.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, Bill, Todd, is that the case? If Council were to say, well, we want
to go with deChase today, does that mean the RFP is over or could MDC say, okay, we
will go with that. Or is it either November Whiskey or not? Because if that was the
situation I'm curious why we wasted time having the other presentation.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I think with all due respect I think that that was all of our concerns last week and
when -- and this isn't a referendum against deChase I mean at all. You guys have a
fantastic project. However, I think that was -- that was certainly my concern last week
when -- when we were sitting there and in knowing with the process that we all laid out
that we agreed to it -- that -- that why we would hear the other proposal today and so that
-- that's actually a really good question, why that was, because it certainly isn't -- doesn't
fit within the parameters that were given to us in this process and so I think that's the
reason why -- I mean I can't tell you how many different e-mails that we have received
from different business owners and land owners downtown, you know, expressing their
major concern in regard to trusting the process that's been -- that's been given to us.
Trust the process and -- and -- and -- and their desire for a project to be -- to be built. So,
I would agree with Councilman Cavener's comments that we have two choices. Honestly,
we have two choices. Either we accept November Whiskey's proposal or we scrap -- we
scrap it and -- and I think by scrapping the project I think would be an utter devastation to
our downtown corridor and I think that there would be -- any prospects of future
development would go by the wayside and it would -- it would dramatically affect what we
so very want -- much want. So, that -- that would be my -- that would be my comments.
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener, did you have a question?
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Cavener: No, Madam Mayor. I think Council Member Palmer had a question for Bill Nary
or Todd Lakey and I think that -- that wasn't answered.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Palmer, do you want to restate your question?
Palmer: Madam Mayor, yeah. Is that the case? If we as a Council -- which I don't think
we should say this today, but if Council we said we are going with deChase, is that -- is
that a pointless motion to make? Is it over, the RFP, or is it -- are our options only go with
November Whiskey or reject the RFP.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary?
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, so Council
Member Bernt's right, I mean the MDC board has made a decision and voted for the
proposal that was presented last week by November Whiskey. They have no reason or
obligation to change that decision unless they wish and I don't know what their process
is if at all they can, but they -- so, yes, you're right, if you -- if you want to -- if this Council
doesn't want to move forward with that proposal, then, I guess this Council state would
be you wouldn't be willing to transfer the property or make it a part of a different project,
therefore, this would be dead. There would be no project. So, I don't think there is a way
out of that. I mean I think -- unless, again, the parties want to change their mind and do
something different, but that's the way I view it now is they have made a decision. If the
city doesn't want -- the city has no obligation to transfer the property. So, if that's the
decision of the majority of the Council, then -- then the project is over and you're going to
have to start back at square one on what do you want to do.
De Weerd: Mr. Lakey, maybe just a comment of what are the options for the MDC board.
Lakey: Madam Mayor and MDC board, I would, essentially, agree with what Mr. Nary
said. The RFP itself clearly states that the decision has to be unanimous, that both sides
have to agree to move forward. MDC has made its decision. I suppose they could alter
that, but at this point they have -- they have made their decision and they are not required
to change it or do anything different. At the end of the day both sides have to be on the
same page.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: So, what I am to understand from that is, obviously, we -- we can't compel MDC,
nor would we try to, but if we were to say, okay, we want deChase, then, MDC board can
reconsider the decision they made.
Lakey: Madam Mayor and Council Member Palmer, I do think MDC has the ability to
change their decision or change -- to change their vote.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor. That took a long time to get to that. So, it is -- it is still an option.
Do we want to consider it as an option and figure out the process as to what this funding
mechanism would take or do we want to just go the way of the recommendation?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I -- I don't want to continue with just regurgitating information that I previously --
but I would like to just read, you know, portions of some e-mails that we have received
from downtown business owners and land owners, one of which -- first said I have been
slow to develop a project patiently waiting to see progress in downtown. I feel the time
has come and am particularly encouraged seeing the progress in recent RFP responses.
Another quote from another e-mail received. Putting aside this project at this time will
severely hinder valuable momentum and opportunity for our downtown. Another --
another gentleman said that it -- it appears that the selection process was -- was ultimately
ignored. I could go on and on about the many e-mails that we have received from decision
makers and stakeholders in our downtown corridor. I personally believe that going
forward and -- and delving outside the process that was put before us would -- would -
- would be a dangerous position to be -- to be putting ourselves in.
De Weerd: Any further -- we do have a motion on the table.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just a question for -- for Mr. Nary. So, should the City Council vote to approve
the motion that's before us, the question about the price that the City of Meridian
taxpayers will be compensated for that building, is that question already answered
because it's included within the proposal or is that -- there has been a lot of confusion
about what is -- is the proposal built in concrete or is there lots of flexibility and as it
pertains to particularly from my interest, which is the -- the taxpayer owned property, I'm
just curious about how that process will play out, if we are agreeing to that price today.
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener I would say,
no, you're not agreeing to that price today. It is a proposal. So, they have estimated the
value of the city hall property and I don't remember the number off the top of my head,
565,000 or something like that. But what's going to happen if -- if this Council agrees to
move forward with the first proposer November Whiskey is there will have to be an
agreement between the city and MDC in regards to the price. If the city wants some other
alternative way to value that property that's something the City Council can decide to do.
That's in negotiation with MDC, because MDC -- because MDC is the only party we can
transfer the property to for a direct sale. So, if the price goes up or down based on
negotiations, that's certainly within the Council's purview. There is -- there is also a public
process where the public can weigh in in a public hearing on the transfer as well. But,
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no, you're not set on that price. It is just part of the proposal, just as most of the other
things are speculation as to what costs were and I think that even came up today. Again,
this -- when you're actually going to break ground and what things cost may be slightly
different between what is proposed. It is the best estimate on both parties as to what it
may cost. But certainly some of it may change, because MDC will, then, have an
agreement with November Whiskey and Pacific Properties to construct this project and
have more finite detail on that and what it looks like and when this groundbreaking
happens and all the other detail that's necessary to build a project. So, there is still more
to be done. So, the specifics of the numbers and such certainly can change.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Before I call for the question, I think it's -- it's important -- there has been a lot
of -- a lot of commentary from our public and of Council. I feel like there is a bumper
sticker going around town that says trust the process. I have heard that so much in the
past 72 hours and I think it's important to note that this is part of the process. This is the
process. We as a City Council were asked should we get rid of the old city hall building
and how can we make that process, again, as public and as transparent as -- as possible.
Right? And I think we did that. Now, I think it's important -- we -- Council Member Bernt
read some e-mails and there were some that sat with me -- they sat with me all weekend
and that was that there was concern from members of our public or of the RFP
recommendation committee that the City Council ignored or didn't take into consideration
their feedback and for me it's quite the contrary. It is because that committee did such
an incredible job of scoring these two applications and scoring them the same, mind you,
and bringing a recommendation to us on a split vote, that I thought it was our job to, again,
trust the process as Council Member Bernt likes to continue to say, that we do our due
diligence when we are disposing of a taxpayer owned asset. This is just a continuation
of that. And so I think it is important -- at least for me and I don't -- I rarely try to speak
on behalf of the City Council, but on behalf of the City Council if there was a comment
that I made or a member of this body made last week that made members of the RFP
committee feel like that their opinion wasn't valid or welcomed or appreciated, I sincerely
apologize, because, quite frankly, it is because members of the City Council, members of
MDC and the public, they did such a great job and were so thorough on this process, that
it created a very challenging situation and I'm one that has long supported just selling the
building and not going into this muddy mess that we have found ourselves in where
members of our public are upset or feeling that we are not listening to them. That's a
much cleaner process. But we have chosen to evaluate based on merit and make a
recommendation. There is a motion on the table. I think there are still many questions
related to how we dispose of old city hall that will still need to be answered, but this is
just, again, another step in a long set of process related to the disposal. So, Madam
Mayor, I'm happy to call for the question.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
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Roll call: Borton, abstain; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSTAIN.
De Weerd: And, again, Mr. Nary, I know you just kind of went through a process outlining
next steps, but can you, please, go through those one more time.
Nary: Certainly, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and the Commission. So, the
next step in the process would be a -- an agreement between MDC and November
Whiskey or Pacific Partners on the project and simultaneously would also be an
agreement with the city on the transfer of the old city hall property and what the City
Council wants as a requirement -- anything in addition to the cost and how do we want to
assess the cost and the valuation of that. So, I -- I don't know how quickly all that occurs,
but that's the two steps I know we need to have is an agreement with us and MDC and
MDC with their proposer. I don't know if Mr. Lakey has any different thoughts or -- you
know how lawyers are.
De Weerd: Mr. Lakey, any additional steps that weren't discussed?
Lakey: No, Madam Mayor. I think Bill described it accurately. We have those two things
to pursue, essentially, simultaneously with both bodies. I know there is -- the city isn't
party to one agreement, but both bodies I think need to buy off on the terms of both
agreements.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Mueller.
Mueller: I just have a quick comment that I think needs to be said for -- A, for the public
that came, because we appreciate you guys being here and, then, also for deChase group
that is here. Me and Anne were just discussing this -- the two proposals for a while and
one thing we thought was really important is -- I don't think -- I don't want you guys to feel
like you -- you just did a presentation and it has no value. Your presentation is very good
and the project that you guys want to do in downtown has a lot of potential for downtown.
I am on the MDC board that recommended the other project. We did this and my -- I can
speak only for myself here. We did it solely based on -- we have had too many projects
come and have time kill them in downtown. We have a project that's fully financed that
takes taxpayer dollars and nets out in the green by 100,000 dollars and, then, we have
one that's going to take six months to potentially even a year to do redistricting and things
like that and what me and Anne were talking about is the only thing that I hate about RFP
processes -- and I work in the private sector and have to apply for RFPs all the time for
IT work -- is it doesn't ever do an accurate -- your guys' proposal was excellent. We like
you guys. We would love to work with you guys. In this particular instance downtown
needs some action and needs to see it happen quick and they need something that's
guaranteed one hundred percent already financed; right? We have at least two other full
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city blocks in this downtown district that need development; right? And if it's going to take
six months to a year to think about alternatives of redistricting, is it possible to redistrict
without hurting our existing district. We can work through that stuff and I -- I don't know if
you guys are still interested, but there is always potential for this downtown to actually
end up with two projects instead of just one. So, I wanted to make sure this process -- it
shouldn't -- I hope that it hasn't alienated you guys. We don't -- we -- we don't have a lot
of negative things to say about it, it's just based on what the city -- the city needs, the
speed of development, some of the -- some of the price points, the decision was made
one way, but we would love to talk to you in the future. I would love to talk -- I would love
me -- me and Anne would love to meet with you guys and talk to you about some of the
other future potential development sites and what's available. So, I just wanted to make
sure that that was known. I think it's worth putting out there.
Bernt: Well said.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, there has been a few times when I have really surprised myself
in the two and a half years I have been on Council. One is today when I'm advocating for
the idea of creating or extending the life of an urban renewal district and advocating --
De Weerd: I wasn't going to say it, but --
Palmer: And --
De Weerd: But it was killing me.
Palmer: And wanting to explore the possibility of bonding. To me I equated it more with
kind of the STARS program where, you know, upfront money and it's paying for itself kind
of thing. But, yeah, stunning myself up here, but on a serious note I -- I really am excited
to have a project down here. Either one would have been fantastic -- will be fantastic. I
mean, Josh, you and I, long before the RFP process even started -- I ran into you in my
parents' store and you were showing me some renderings of -- of the next greatest from
your original idea of just a couple properties there and I'm sure you could tell my
excitement for -- for making something happen. I apologize if my passion for this city kind
of comes out of my mouth wrong and kind of gets me in trouble here and there. It always
has. The Mayor can attest to that all the way back into high school when I have said
things that I shouldn't or I have worded them in ways -- in ways that I really shouldn't have
and so I really hope that we can move forward and have an amazing project next to us.
I really hope that we can find another way to get you guys involved in downtown as well,
because we all want to see what's best for those that we serve and -- and make money
in the process. America is awesome. So, let's make it happen.
Bernt: Well said.
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De Weerd: Well, thank you, Commissioner Mueller and Councilman Palmer. We have
two great proposals and we are excited to move forward, but we are excited to continue
to have conversations, because there is a lot of opportunity and both these projects were
very exciting for downtown -- that we have been waiting for that vision and the reality to
-- to happen. So, this is the beginning of conversations, just as it's the beginning of an
exciting project for downtown. One of many we hope to come. So, thank you for your
time and thank you for sharing a little bit more and helping us to get our arms around
being a conservative community, listening to a district on top of a district and public debt
and it started to get a little bit frightening and, yes, I -- I respect Councilman Palmer's
statements and that I didn't have to make them for him. So, thank you all for coming here.
It is the beginning of public comment that will -- that will happen and we will make sure to
outline next steps and when -- when those comments are part of that process as Mr. Nary
outlined. MDC any -- any comments? Council, anything further? If not I would entertain
a motion to adjourn.
Cavener: So moved.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: MDC, do you want to also make a similar motion?
Bird: So moved.
Basalone: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor. Be enthusiastic.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 4:55 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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