HomeMy WebLinkAboutFebruary 15, 2005 C/C Minutes
Meridian City Councii
February 15, 2005
Page 13 of 20
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr, Bird,
Bird: With that clarification -- and I do like that idea, seeing how that is the week of
spring break and, you know, the ones that have children --I move that we table Public
Hearing CPA 04-003 to March 29th, 2005.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to continue Item 11 to March 29th. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12:
Public Hearing: AZ 04-034 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 19.63
acres from a RUT zone to a R-8 zone for Hacienda Subdivision by Jayo
Construction - 6000 North Meridian Road:
Item 13:
Public Hearing: PP 04-043 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 98
building lots and 27 common lots on 19.63 acres in a proposed R-8 zone
for Hacienda Subdivision by Jayo Construction - 6000 North Meridian
Road:
Item 14:
Public Hearing: CUP 04-052 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development for a residential subdivision in a proposed R-8 zone
for Hacienda Subdivision by Jayo Construction -6000 North Meridian
Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 12, 13, and 14 are all related. I will open these three items,
Public Hearing AZ 04-034, PP 04-043, and CUP 04-052. I will open these with staff
comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the applicant has submitted a revised
site plan to staff on Friday and s6 we have a question before the Council today, just to
decide where you want to go. The two options are to remand it back to P&Z for their
consideration of the revised site plan or to go ahead and schedule it for two weeks out
to give staff adequate time to review the proposal and I just wanted to explain to you
why I'm asking you to make this decision, I guess. This is for Hacienda Subdivision. It's
located across from Paramount next to Saguaro. This is the Priddy property. I think you
will remember Mr. Priddy and his bull -- the animal. Sorry. And this is the Ventana
Subdivision and this will be the new school site. So, it's in an area that's seen a lot of
very recent development activity. This is the proposed -- this is the layout that the
Planning and Zoning Commission commented on and, in particular, I want to point out
some of these open spaces along the southern and eastern boundary. This is the
Meridian City Council
February 15. 2005
Page 14 of 20
revised site layout and so here you see them stacked one on another. What's missing
are the ones that are circled in red here. These are attached townhouse products. And I
have a picture of them. There they are. And that's just two, but they are actually
attaching up to four. Five on this one and five on that one. And so they have taken out
these open space lots that were 20 feet in width. So, there used to be 30 feet between
the buildings. And I didn't check the minutes exactly, but I remember that being a
comment of the Planning and Zoning Commission, that they felt a little more
comfortable with those attached products, because there was that break. They also lost
a common lot here. Now, Mr. Bailey has explained to me that the reduction in that
separation isn't as great as it would appear, because the applicant still intends to
provide a distance between those structures, but it would go down to ten feet in some
cases. I think it is going between 20 to ten. And they can explain that a little better than I
can. But when I first saw this, I was very concerned about the loss of the open space
lots. Now, they did remove one buildable lot also and that was in this area here. They
lost a buildable lot. The reason that they have made these changes is that they went
from a 30 foot frontage to a 32 foot frontage and that required shifting some of the open
space. So, I did not feel comfortable making the call on this one as to whether it should
go back to -- well, I can't require that they go back to P&Z, only you can do that, but I
didn't feel comfortable taking it from -- to you until you had had an opportunity to
comment on this.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, would you like to ask questions or hear from the applicant
first? Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a question of Anna. So, really, what you're asking is for the
hearing that we have tonight, staff's asking to either delay it two weeks and, then,
present it to the City Council in its entirety with the revised plan?
Canning: Correct.
Wardle: Or whether we'd like to remand it to Planning and Zoning with apparently a
substantial change?
Canning: Yes. That's the question.
De Weerd: And we do have Don and Denise Ivory here tonight, which I'm sure they
haven't had an opportunity to look at this as well. So, our members of the public, I
assume, have not seen the revised plan. Okay. Would the applicant like to comment?
Sorry. I just had no idea who the applicant was tonight.
Nickle: That's okay, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Nickle: Shawn Nickle. 52 North 2nd Street in Eagle.
Meridian City Councii
February 15. 2005
Page 150f20
De Weerd: Okay.
Nickle: Are you going to swear me in or are we --
De Weerd: No. We took this out of our ordinance.
Nickle: Okay. Well, I will be honest anyway.
De Weerd: I will remind you to, please, tell the truth.
Nickle: I usually do.
De Weerd: Usually.
Nickle: Usually.
Bird: Usually. He did say that. Usually.
Nickle: I think we understand staff's concerns. I don't -- I don't think -- well, we don't feel
it's necessary to go back to Planning and Zoning. I don't think -- we don't think it's a
substantial change. We do believe that staff needs some additional time to review this.
We did give it to her on Friday. And we can meet with the neighbors after this meeting
and kind of show them what we have done. The concern, from what we understand, is
the distance between those existing -- those structures through the attached units. The
two on the left that are circled would have an 18 foot separation between buildings, that
third one would have a ten foot, and, then, the one on the eastern boundary would have
a 20 foot. We have -- I guess based on your recommendation,we do have the ability to
remove a lot on the south boundary and widen those gaps. I don't know if that's
necessary and I guess I would ask that we -- if you decide to postpone it for two weeks,
that we get together with staff and see if we can address those concerns. And, if not, we
would come back to you with one less lot on that south boundary to widen that gap. We
had some other issues that came up between Planning and Zoning and now,
particularly the tiling of the ditch through the property, concerns that the police
department had with visibility around our clubhouse, and the stub street to the nbrth, all
of which I believe we can resolve, with staff within this two weeks and bring you back a
cleaner application at that time. And that's what we would request. I'll stand for
questions.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: You say the -- you had some concerns between Planning and Zoning now that's
been brought up by the police department, some other deal, Shawn? It wasn't brought
up at the Planning and Zoning?
Meridian City Councii
February 15, 2005
Page 16 0120
Nickle: It was brought up at the Planning and Zoning.
Bird: Oh. Okay.
Nickle: One of the things the Planning and Zoning did, they wanted us to move our --
that existing wall right where that pointer is at. It was too close to the street. They
wanted us to move it ten feet back. That's been accomplished. I think the concern with
the police department -- I did talk to Chief Musser today -- was the visibility. There is an
existing -- if you guys have driven by the property, there is an existing stucco wall that
ranges from three to six feet in height and I think the concern with staff and with the
police department was visibility in that common area. I believe that we can work out with
the police chief and make him -- satisfy his concerns with that.
Bird: And with the ditch company, what is Settler's --
Nickle: The ditch company, they would like us to tile it. Your Planning and Zoning -- the
Planning and Zoning Commission and staff feel, along with us, that it would be a nice
amenity to keep it open through the property as it goes around the clubhouse and
through the open space right there.
Bird: I agree.
Nickle: I think we would like the option of working with the irrigation district and seeing if
we can't leave that open and, if not, obviously, we will pipe it.
Bird: Thank you.
Nickle: And, then, the one last thing, since we are talking about it, the stub street to the
north, originally we couldn't get ahold of the Catholic church to find out what their plans
were for that property prior to P&Z. We have since talked to them and their plans are to
come back in with a -- I guess a Sunday school or some sort of school related to the
church at some future date. We would just like the option of working with the highway
district and the church and if they do develop it that way, we don't feel that there is a
need to have that stub street. If it was going to be residential, I could see the need for
the interconnectivity. So, we woulçt just like the option, through a condition, that we work
with the church and with staff and the highway district to figure out what that will be and,
then, we will act accordingly. So, those were the issues. I'll be quiet now. -
De Weerd: Well, it sounds like there is a number of issues that need to be worked out
that could result in a number of changes to this. So, Council -- Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, my preference on this application would not be to remand it, but
to allow the applicant and staff time to work it out. These don't seem to be substantial
changes, in my opinion. I would also encourage the applicant to work with the neighbors
and surrounding property owners in that two week time period.
Meridian City Councii
February 15, 2005
Page 170f20
Nickle: Absolutely.
De Weerd: Council, I guess I would also like to request of staff -- we have been asking
for some time and certainly our Comp Plan supports certain densities, but I want to
know what our transportation corridors are. These -- as we look at higher density
developments, we have to know what our road plans are and where these higher
densities really should be, instead of just assuming that it will be supported at some
point with public transportation or appropriate road infrastructure. We have to have this
design. In particular, when we start looking at these higher densities. And so this --
when it comes back with staff recommendations, I would like to know what that -- if this
is part of a long-term plan for -- and if this higher density is supported by a
transportation plan. Is that putting you on the spot? I have talked to Brad
Hawkins-Clark -- we have to look at a mobility study and start just putting our plan
together, if it's -- if it needs more detail, if we need to see how the master plan pathways
are going to connect and some of the stuff, because I don't feel comfortable putting high
densities in a place where I don't know if it's going to ever be supported with public
transportation or appropriate roads.
Canning: Madam Mayor -- and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but it's less than five
units to the acre. I know it looks different, but it's -- you know, it's -- well, I have got the
density from 4.99 is what I have got, Shawn, originally, so --
De Weerd: But it starts to add up.
Canning: Yeah. I'm just -- high density means something different to me, but I just--
De Weerd: It looks -- it definitely does look high density, but we do need to know about
our infrastructure and our road plans out there. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, if there are no other comments, I would move that we continue
the Public Hearing on Items 12, 13, and 14 to March 1st.
Bird: Madam Mayor, before I second that, you need to find out if there is anyboçjy here
that needs to testify tonight. ' ,
Wardle: I will withdraw my motion.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing, although changes could be made, you may
want to comment after you have seen those changes made. Is there anyone in the
public who would like to offer testimony tonight? Okay. And I'm assuming the applicant
will meet with the neighbors after this. Okay. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I, again, move that we continue Items 12, 13 and 14 to March
1 st, 2005.
Donnell: Second.
Meridian City Council
February 15, 2005
Page 18 of 20
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to continue Items 12, 13, and 14to March 1st. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15:
Water, Sewer and Trash Delinquencies:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 15 is our water, sewer and trash delinquencies. Pursuant to
Meridian City Code 9-1-21, delinquent water users shall have the right to request a pre-
termination hearing prior to water service being disconnected. No water users having
requested such pre-termination hearing for February 15th, 2005, water service for the
attached turnoff list will be terminated on February 16th, 2005. The total amount of the
turnoff list is $40,032.44. Council, do I have a motion to approve the turnoff list?
Donnell: So moved.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: The motion is to approve the list in front of you of $40,032.44. Mr. Berg, will
you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 17 is an Executive Session per"-
Donnell: Are we doing to do 16?
Item 16:
Ordinance No. : AZ 04.026 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 1.71 acres from RUT to C-G zone for Mountain
West Bank by Erstad Thornton Architects - northeast corner of Venture
Street and East Fairview Avenue:
De Weerd: Oh, sorry. I'm sorry, Mr. Berg. I almost forgot to give the opportunity to
please read Item 16, Ordinance 05-1133 by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 05-1133, an
Ordinance known as Mountain West Bank for property located as designated in
Attachment A of this ordinance and annexing certain lands .and territory situated in Ada
County, Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of
Meridian, as requested by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land
use zoning classification of said lands as C-G, General Commercial, in the Meridian City
Meridian City Council
February 15, 2005
Page 13 of 20
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With that clarification -- and I do like that idea, seeing how that is the week of
spring break and, you know, the ones that have children -- I move that we table Public
Hearing CPA 04-003 to March 29th, 2005.
Donnell: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to continue Item 11 to March 29th. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12:
Public Hearing: AZ 04-034 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 19.63
acres from a RUT zone to a R-8 zone for Hacienda Subdivision by Jayo
Construction - 6000 North Meridian Road:
Item 13:
Public Hearing: PP 04-043 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 98
building lots and 27 common lots on 19.63 acres in a proposed R-8 zone
for Hacienda Subdivision by Jayo Construction - 6000 North Meridian
Road:
Item 14:
Public Hearing: CUP 04-052 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development for a residential subdivision in a proposed R-8 zone
for Hacienda Subdivision by Jayo Construction - 6000 North Meridian
Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 12, 13, and 14 are all related. I will open these three items,
Public Hearing AZ 04-034, PP 04-043, and CUP 04-052. I will open these with staff
comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the applicant has submitted a revised
site plan to staff on Friday and sa we have a question before the Council today, just to
decide where you want to go. The two options are to remand it back to P&Z for their
consideration of the revised site plan or to go ahead and schedule it for two weeks out
to give staff adequate time to review the proposal and I just wanted to explain to you
why I'm asking you to make this decision, I guess. This is for Hacienda Subdivision. It's
located across from Paramount next to Saguaro. This is the Priddy property. I think you
will remember Mr. Priddy and his bull -- the animal. Sorry. And this is the Ventana
Subdivision and this will be the new school site. So, it's in an area that's seen a lot of
very recent development activity. This is the proposed -- this is the layout that the
Planning and Zoning Commission commented on and, in particular, I want to point out
some of these open spaces along the southern and eastern boundary. This is the
Melidian City Council
February 15. 2005
Page 140f20
revised site layout and so here you see them stacked one on another. What's missing
are the ones that are circled in red here. These are attached townhouse products. And I
have a picture of them. There they are. And that's just two, but they are actually
attaching up to four. Five on this one and five on that one. And so they have taken out
these open space lots that were 20 feet in width. So, there used to be 30 feet between
the buildings. And I didn't check the minutes exactly, but I remember that being a
comment of the Planning and Zoning Commission, that they felt a little more
comfortable with those attached products, because there was that break. They also lost
a common lot here. Now, Mr. Bailey has explained to me that the reduction in that
separation isn't as great as it would appear, because the applicant still intends to
provide a distance between those structures, but it would go down to ten feet in some
cases. I think it is going between 20 to ten. And they can explain that a little better than I
can. But when I first saw this, I was very concerned about the loss of the open space
lots. Now, they did remove one buildable lot also and that was in this area here. They
lost a buildable lot. The reason that they have made these changes is that they went
from a 30 foot frontage to a 32 foot frontage and that required shifting some of the open
space. So, I did not feel comfortable making the call on this one as to whether it should
go back to -- well, I can't require that they go back to P&Z, only you can do that, but I
didn't feel comfortable taking it from -- to you until you had had an opportunity to
comment on this.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, would you like to ask questions or hear from the applicant
first? Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a question of Anna. So, really, what you're asking is for the
hearing that we have tonight, staff's asking to either delay it two weeks and, then,
present it to the City Council in its entirety with the revised plan?
Canning: Correct.
Wardle: Or whether we'd like to remand it to Planning and Zoning with apparently a
substantial change?
Canning: Yes. That's the question.
De Weerd: And we do have Don and Denise Ivory here tonight, which I'm sure they
haven't had an opportunity to look at this as well. So, our members of the public, I
assume, have not seen the revised plan. Okay. Would the applicant like to comment?
Sorry. I just had no idea who the applicant was tonight.
Nickle: That's okay, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Nickle: Shawn Nickle. 52 North 2nd Street in Eagle.
Meridian City Councii
February 15, 2005
Page 15 0120
De Weerd: Okay.
Nickle: Are you going to swear me in or are we --
De Weerd: No. We took this out of our ordinance.
Nickle: Okay. Well, I will be honest anyway.
De Weerd: I will remind you to, please, tell the truth.
Nickle: I usually do.
De Weerd: Usually.
Nickle: Usually.
Bird:. Usually. He did say that. Usually.
Nickle: I think we understand staff's concerns. I don't -- I don't think -- well, we don't feel
it's necessary to go back to Planning and Zoning. I don't think -- we don't think it's a
substantial change. We do believe that staff needs some additional time to review this.
We did give it to her on Friday. And we can meet with the neighbors after this meeting
and kind of show them what we have done. The concern, from what we understand, is
the distance between those existing -- those structures through the attached units. The
two on the left that are circled would have an 18 foot separation between buildings, that
third one would have a ten foot, and, then, the one on the eastern boundary would have
a 20 foot. We have -- I guess based on your recommendation, we do have the ability to
remove a lot on the south boundary and widen those gaps. .I don't know if that's
necessary and I guess I would ask that we -- if you decide to postpone it for two weeks,
that we get together with staff and see if we can address those concerns. And, if not, we
would come back to you with one less lot on that south boundary to widen that gap. We
had some other issues that came up between Planning and Zoning and now,
particularly the tiling of the ditch through the property, concerns that the police
department had with visibility around our clubhouse, and the stub street to the nOrth, all
of which I believe we can resolve, with staff within this two weeks and bring you back a
cleaner application at that time. And that's what we would request. I'll stand for
questions.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: You say the -- you had some concerns between Planning and Zoning now that's
been brought up by the police department, some other deal, Shawn? It wasn't brought
up at the Planning and Zoning?
Meridian City Council
February 15. 2005
Page 160120
Nickle: It was brought up at the Planning and Zoning.
Bird: Oh. Okay.
Nickle: One of the things the Planning and Zoning did, they wanted us to move our --
that existing wall right where that pointer is at. It was too close to the street. They
wanted us to move it ten feet back. That's been accomplished. I think the concern with
the police department -- I did talk to Chief Musser today -- was the visibility. There is an
existing -- if you guys have driven by the property, there is an existing stucco wall that
ranges from three to six feet in height and I think the concern with staff and with the
police department was visibility in that common area. I believe that we can work out with
the police chief and make him -- satisfy his concerns with that.
Bird: And with the ditch company, what is Settler's --
Nickle: The ditch company, they would like us to tile it. Your Planning and Zoning -- the
Planning and Zoning Commission and staff feel, along with us, that it would be a nice
amenity to keep it open through the property as it goes around the clubhouse and
through the open space right there.
Bird: I agree.
Nickle: I think we would like the option of working with the irrigation district and seeing if
we can't leave that open and, if not, obviously, we will pipe it.
Bird: Thank you.
Nickle: And, then, the one last thing, since we are talking about it, the stub street to the
north, originally we couldn't get ahold of the Catholic church to find out what their plans
were for that property prior to P&Z. We have since talked to them and their plans are to
come back in with a -- I guess a Sunday school or some sort of school related to the
church at some future date. We would just like the option of working with the highway
district and the church and if they do develop it that way, we don't feel that there is a
need to have that stub street. If it was going to be residential, I could see the need for
the interconnectivity. So, we woulçt just like the option, through a condition, that we work
with the church and with staff and the highway district to figure out what that will be and,
then, we will act accordingly. So, those were the issues. I'll be quiet now. -
De Weerd: Well, it sounds like there is a number of issues that need to be worked out
that could result in a number of changes to this. So, Council -- Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, my preference on this application would not be to remand it, but
to allow the applicant and staff time to work it out. These don't seem to be substantial
changes, in my opinion. I would also encourage the applicant to work with the neighbors
and surrounding property owners in that two week time period.
Meridian City Council
February 15, 2005
Page 17 0120
Nickle: Absolutely.
De Weerd: Council, I guess I would also like to request of staff -- we have been asking
for .some time and certainly our Comp Plan supports certain densities, but I want to
know what our transportation corridors are. These -- as we look at higher density
developments, we have to know what our road plans are and where these higher
densities really should be, instead of just assuming that it will be supported at some
point with public transportation or appropriate road infrastructure. We have to have this
design. In particular, when we start looking at these higher densities. And so this --
when it comes back with staff recommendations, I would like to know whatthat -- if this
is part of a long-term plan for -- and if this higher density is supported by a
transportation plan. Is that putting you on the spot? I have talked to Brad
Hawkins-Clark -- we have to look at a mobility study and start just putting our plan
together, if it's -- if it needs more detail, if we need to see how the master plan pathways
are going to connect and some of the stuff, because I don't feel comfortable putting high
densities in a place where I don't know if it's going to ever be supported with public
transportation or appropriate roads.
Canning: Madam Mayor -- and I'm not trying to be argumentative, but it's less than five
units to the acre. I know it looks different, but it's -- you know, it's -- well, I have got the
density from 4.99 is what I have got, Shawn, originally, so --
De Weerd: But it starts to add up.
Canning: Yeah. I'm just -- high density means something different to me, but I just --
De Weerd: It looks -- it definitely does look high density, but we do need to know about
our infrastructure and our road plans out there. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, if there are no other comments, I would move that we continue
the Public Hearing on Items 12, 13, and 14 to March 1st.
Bird: Madam Mayor, before I second that, you need to find out if there is anybody here
that needs to testify tonight. . .
Wardle: I will withdraw my motion.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a Public Hearing, although changes could be made, you may
want to comment after you have seen those changes made. Is there anyone in the
public who would like to offer testimony tonight? Okay. And I'm assuming the applicant
will meet with the neighbors after this. Okay. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I, again, move that we continue Items 12, 13 and 14 to March
1 st, 2005.
Donnell: Second.
Meridian City Councii
February 15. 2005
Page 18 0120
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. The motion is to continue Items 12, 13, and 14 to March 1st. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15:
Water, Sewer and Trash Delinquencies:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 15 is our water, sewer and trash delinquencies. Pursuant to
Meridian City Code 9-1-21, delinquent water users shall have the right to request a pre-
termination hearing prior to water service being disconnected. No water users having
requested such pre-termination hearing for February 15th, 2005, water service for the
attached turnoff list will be terminated on February 16th, 2005. The total amount of the
turnoff list is $40,032.44. Council, do I have a motion to approve the turnoff list?
Donnell: So moved.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: The motion is to approve the list in front of you of $40,032.44. Mr. Berg, will
you call roll.
Roll-Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Donnell, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 17 is an Executive Session per--
Donnell: Are we doing to do 16?
Item 16:
Ordinance No. AZ 04-026 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 1.71 acres from RUT to C-G zone for Móuntain
West Bank by Erstad Thornton Architects - northeast corner of Venture
Street and East Fairview Avenue:
De Weerd: Oh, sorry. I'm sorry, Mr. Berg. I almost forgot to give the opportunity to
please read Item 16, Ordinance 05-1133 by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 05-1133, an
Ordinance known as Mountain West Bank for property located as designated in
Attachment A of this ordinance and annexing certain lands and territory situated in Ada
County, Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of
Meridian, as requested by the City of Meridian, establishing and determining the land
use zoning classification of said lands as C-G, General Commercial, in the Meridian City