HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-03-06Meridian City Council March 6, 2018.
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:03 p.m.,
Tuesday, March 6, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam, Luke Cavener, Ty
Palmer, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Others Present: Ted Baird, C.Jay Coles, Kyle Radek, Cameron Ariel, Sonya Waters,
Josh Beach, Berle Stokes, David Jones, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Anne Little Roberts X Joe Borton
X Ty Palmer X Keith Bird
X Genesis Milam X Lucas Cavener
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us tonight. We appreciate you being here. For the
record it is Tuesday, March 6. It's a few minutes after 6:00 o'clock. We will start with roll
call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
De Weerd: May I tell all of you you sounded awesome. Thank you. You know, there is
nothing like -- just gives you goose bumps. So, thank you for joining us.
Item 3: Community Invocation by Larry Woodard with Ten Mile Christian
Church
De Weerd: Item 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Larry
Woodard with Ten Mile Christian Church. If you will all join us in the community
invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Woodward: It's good to see some new faces up here. Aye. I shouldn't pick on
Councilmen, should I? Let's pray. Our Dear Heavenly Father, we thank you for
blessing this city and the men and women who continue to lead us. Our city continues
to be recognized as one of the fastest growing cities in our nation and as I talk each
week with new residents, they are so happy to live here. May this sense of peace
continue to prevail in our city. My prayer tonight is also for our city employees who must
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keep the water running, the garbage picked up, our fire department, our ambulance
crews and for the police who must work long hours to keep us safe. The opioid
epidemic has not missed our city and I pray that everyone can work together to control
this scourge. This city has begged that the Highway 25 corridor be improved to the
north of our city to no avail. May our elected state leaders push to correct this
dangerous situation. Other roads will be improved this year and although a temporary
concern, in the end our city will be even better. I would close tonight with a word about
our schools. Schools are not the responsibility of this Council, but as the governing
body of our city they are watching closely whether our city residents vote this next week
to provide funds for new schools, new classrooms, and even the purchase of a future
high school site near 1-84 and Ten Mile. As a city we need to look ahead to the next
ten, 20 years and this Council has consistently done that. I pray for the health of the
Council Members as their responsibilities get larger each year. Give them wisdom in
their decision making and bless their families as these city leaders spend more and
more time on Meridian city issues. God, you have blessed us beyond our belief. We
thank you for all of these blessings and ask that you continue to look favorably on us, in
Jesus' name, amen.
De Weerd: Thank you, Larry.
Woodard: You bet.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Is your mike on?
Borton: It is. There are no changes or amendments to the agenda, so I would move
that we adopt the agenda as published.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
Coles: There were no sign-ups for Item 5.
Item 6: Consent Agenda
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Shooting
South
and
S.
Road
A. Approve Minutes of February 13, 2018 Joint City Council
Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting
B. Approve Minutes of February 20, 2018 City Council Regular
Meeting
C. Approve Minutes of February 27, 2018 City Council Regular
Meeting
D. Paisley Meadows Subdivision No.2 Water Main Easement
E. Southern Highlands Sub #4 Sanitarty Sewer and Water Main
Easement
F. License Agreement for Temporary Use of Boise Police
Range
G. Final Order for TM Creek Subdivision No. 3 (H-2018-0008) by
SCS Brighton, LLC Located East of S. Ten Mile Road and
of W. Franklin Road
H. Final Order for Sky Mesa Subdivision No. 1 (H-2018-0007) by
Sky Mesa Development, LLC Located West of S. Eagle Road
North of E. Taconic Drive
I. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Caven Ridge Estates
West (H-2017-0156) by New Cavanaugh, LLC Located East of
Meridian Road and South of E. Victory Rd.
J. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Designing Team
(H2017-0166) by Designing Team at 1226 2nd 1/2 Street
K. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Kobe/Cope
Comprehensive Plan Map Amendment and Rezone (H-2017-
0157) by Kobe, LLC and Cope Holdings, LLC Located at the
Northeast Corner of N. Locust Grove Road and E. Franklin
L. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Sagewood Commons
(H-2018-0002) by Russ Hunemiller and Dirk Marcum Located at
1055 W. Overland Road
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Subdivision
M. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Turf Farm
(H-2017-0149) by Brighton Investments, LLC Located at the
Northeast Corner of S. Eagle Road and E. Lake Hazel Road
N. City Financial Report for January 2018
O. AP Invoices for Payment 3/7/18 - $280,368.07
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I would move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the
Mayor to sign and Clerk to attest.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea, Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea, Little Roberts, yea,
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From The Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Mayor's Youth Advisory Council Update
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8-A, which is an update from the Meridian Mayor's
Youth Advisory Council. Elyssa is here to lead us in that update.
Wade: Hello.
De Weerd: Hello.
Wade: Okay. So, I'm about to update you on February 2018 MYAC. So, following the
2018 legislative breakfast in January, Representative Jason Monks agreed to help draft
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the legislation and worked side by side with MYAC to bring it before two committee
meetings and, finally, a unanimous vote on the white -- sorry -- on the house floor. This
legislation will now be heading to the senate where Senator Winder and Senator Bayer
will sponsor the bill. And our Teen Activity Committee. TAC held two events and
encouraged MYACers to bring friends that are not part of MVAC. They helped host a
Un -Valentine's Day party at the City Hall where they play games, watched movies and
had pizza. As of last month they also had our tubing in January. We also held our
Ignite Youth, which was the eighth annual Ignite Youth event. Ignite Youth is an idea
and presentation competition in which high school agreed -- aged students have the
opportunity to share their passion, concerns, and ideas with an audience of their peers,
as well as the community members of all ages. There were five youth that presented on
topics ranging from gun control to suicide prevention. Our community service MYACers
created valentines for one of Meridian academies and they were delivered to them on
Valentine's Day. From Principal Hannenman, sorry, he said they were so happy and
appreciative. I was very blown away myself. It is not very often that our students
receive gestures of good deeds. So, we are very truly appreciative. Community service
also held the MYAC -- oh -- with Meridian Dutch Bros and the America -- American
Heart Association to provide a 20 second hands only CPR demonstration to customers
waiting in line to order their drinks. All -- sorry. Very cold. They were able to
demonstrate this life saving technique to over 250 people, which is amazing, and due to
-- due to --
De Weerd: Don't touch it.
Wade: Due to us planning to go to DC this next week I do not have anybody to attend
with me, so that is all for my update.
De Weerd: Well, I see Colin in the back, our MYAC president. He's got your back
today.
Wade: Always.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Not a question, it's more of a comment. When you come and you bring this
update it -- to me it reads like any other youth council around the country would
accomplish over the course of a year, so the fact that all these things you guys
accomplish just in the month of February -- pretty remarkable. Look forward to your
continued success in your legislation and look forward to hearing from you guys next
month.
Wade: Thank you.
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De Weerd: Yes. So, what are you going to do while in DC?
Wade: Well -- I'm not going to touch microphones. We in our government affairs have
been talking about the legislation with our organ donation, so that is one of the main
topics we are going to be bringing up over there and having our conferences and
discussing that further and seeing if we can actually get that lead over.
De Weerd: Yeah. And, Council, one of the things that they are -- they are working on is
a run that they participated in last year and it was focused on suicide prevention and the
MYAC executive council will spend their travel time working on some of the organizing
points as they are the -- not only participating, but they are helping to run that and that
was spearheaded by Colin last year and it's something that MYAC unanimously voted to
be a full participant and organizer to. So, stay tuned for more information, because you
might just be asked to help in some fashion, so -- okay. Well, if there is no questions,
thank you, and as Mr. Cavener said, we continue to be inspired and amazed by what
MYAC continues to accomplish. So, congratulations and, please -- well, I will bring to
the meeting on next week while you're out of town -- the congratulations from this
Council.
Wade: Thank you all so much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wade: Have a good night.
B. Resolution No. 18-2061: Appointment of Jessica Peters to Seat
2, Jennifer Sullivan to Seat 3 and Tyler Jay Wilson to Seat 7 of
the Meridian Arts Commission.
De Weerd: You, too. Okay. Item 8-B is Resolution 18-2061. This is the appointment
of the new parks -- or art commission members and in this full room I don't know -- are
any of the candidates I'm bringing their names forward to -- in the audience tonight?
Okay. This is a very -- if you have a chance to read their cover letters, to look at their
resumes and their application, the three that are up for appointment tonight are highly
qualified. They all bring different talents to the commission to -- you can never fill the
seats of those that have not renewed their expired seats, but they are going to bring
new energy, new ideas, and new talents. So, very excited to bring these names to you
for your approval and would stand for any questions.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: Seeing none, I move that we approve Resolution No. 18-2061, the appointment
of Jessica Peters to Seat 2, Jennifer Sullivan to Seat 3, and Tyler J. Wilson to Seat 7, of
the Meridian Arts Commission and I look forward to working with them.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: Very good. I have a motion and a second by Mrs. Little Roberts. Any
conversation or any discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Milam: I would just like to mention that it might be kind of nice to have a little bit of
testosterone back on the commission. We are lacking --
De Weerd: Well, we do have Tyler that will join Randy B and -- so now -- yes.
Milam: Great. Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea, Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea, Little Roberts, yea,
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried. Thank you for that.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Final Plat for Movado Greens No. 1 (H-2018-0009) by Movado
Development, LLC located South of E. Overland Road between
S. Topaz Way and S. Cloverdale Road
De Weerd: Item 9-A is a final plat on H-2018-0009. I will ask for staff comments.
Beach: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as you know, typically, final plats are
on the Consent Agenda. This one we did not get a response from the applicant in time
to do so. This is a final plat that consists of approximately 6.42 acres of land, zoned R-
15. Previously platted and received a conditional use permit for multi -family just north of
this project. It is consistent with the preliminary plat and staff is recommending
approval.
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De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions? Did the applicant join us this
evening? Do you have any -- any words? No? Okay. Council, any questions for the
applicant or staff? If not do I have a motion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve H-2018-0009.
Bernt: Second.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-A. If there is no
discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Gramercy
Sewer
B. Public Hearing Continued from February 27, 2018 for
Vacation (H-2018-0010) by Kent Brown located at 1715 S. Wells
Avenue
1. Request: Vacate a City of Meridian Water and Sanitary
Easement Located on Lot 5, Block 1, Gramercy Subdivision
No. 1
De Weerd: Item 9-B is a public hearing continued from February 27th on H-2018-0010.
I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Beach: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is for a vacation. This site
consists of approximately .56 of an acre of land, which is zoned C -G, located at 1715
South Wells Avenue. This property was annexed and zoned Kenai Subdivision in 2006.
The applicant is requesting approval to vacate a City of Meridian water and sanitary
sewer easement located on Lot 5, Block 1, of the Gramercy Subdivision No. 1. There is
currently a building under construction on the site with the certificate of zoning
compliance. Staff required the applicant to vacate the easement. This is what they are
applying for tonight. Staff is recommending approval and I will stand for any questions
you have.
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De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Thank you. Is the applicant here? Glad
you could make it. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Brown: For the record Kent Brown. 3161 East Springwood, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kent.
Brown: When we do platting the city and other agencies basically ask us to do blank
checks for easements and this is one of those easements that interferes with the
construction of the building and because it's done at the platting time we are required by
state law to go through the vacation process and so that's why we are here. It's an
easement that we have abandoned, removed the pipe that was there, as required by
Public Works and following the procedure and we are in agreement with the conditions
of approval.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you.
Brown: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide
testimony?
Coles: Madam Mayor, we had one sign-up on this sheet. Lorraine -- Lorraine Kleint,
signed up against with no indication of testimony.
De Weerd: It might have been the wrong sheet. Okay. That's all right. It's happened
before. Is there anyone who wishes to provide testimony on the item? Okay. Thank
you. Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move that we closed the public hearing on Item H-2018-0010.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
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Borton: Move that we approve the vacation application H-2018-0010.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-B. Mr. Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Public Hearing Continued from February 27, 2018 for Harper
Ridge Subdivision (H-2017-0151) by McMaster Limited
Partnership, Located at 3885 E Copper Point Drive
1. Request: Conditional Use Permit Consisting of 124 Multi -
Family Dwelling Units on Approximately 10.68 Acres in an
Existing C -G Zoning District
2. Request: Preliminary Plat Approval Consisting of 16 Multi -
Family Lots, 4 Common Lots and 2 Other Lots on 10.68
Acres of land in an Existing C -G Zoning District
De Weerd: Item 9-C is a public hearing also continued from February 27th for Harper
Ridge Subdivision, Item H-2017-0151. It was continued last week because of a posting
error, so -- staff. Or notice. Lack of notice. No. This one wasn't it. Oh, the applicant
wasn't here. So, we will make sure to ask him why not.
Beach: Very good, Madam Mayor. This is an application for both a conditional use
permit for a multi -family development and for a preliminary plat. The site consists of
approximately 10.68 acres of land, zoned C -G, located at 3885 East Copperpoint Drive.
The property was annexed in 2002 as part of the Sutherland Farms Subdivision -- or
with that development I should say. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map
designation is mixed use regional. So, a conditional use permit is requested for a multi-
family development in the C -G zoning district as required by the UDC. The proposed
multi -family development consists of 124 dwelling units, 16 structures on the 10.68
acres of land in the C -G zoning district. It consists of one, two, and three bedroom
units. Specific use standards for multi -family developments listed in the UDC apply to
the development of this property. The multi -family development -- for multi -family
developments off-street parking is required in accord with the standards of the UDC,
which requires two parking spaces per dwelling unit with at least one of those in a
covered carport or garage and based on the number of units, which is 124. A minimum
of 238 parking spaces are required, 124 of which should be covered. The site plan
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depicts a total of 248 spaces, just ten above what is required, and 128 of which are --
are covered, just four above. So, the applicant exceeds the minimum parking
standards. Additionally, for nonresidential uses, such as a clubhouse, a minimum of
one space is required for every 500 square feet of gross floor area. The applicant's
floor plan for the clubhouse is approximately 2,500 square feet, so that would require
five parking stalls. So, the applicant, again, would -- would still exceed the minimum
parking standards. The parking lot landscaping is required to be provided in accord with
the standards in the UDC. A buffer to the adjoining land use is not required to the south
or east sides of the project, because adjacent uses are residential in nature. On the
northwest and west sides of the project, however, there are existing commercial uses
that require a 25 foot landscape buffer to be installed and we have conditioned that of
the applicant. This is the landscape plan showing the open space for the development.
This is a perspective of the elevation presented by the -- by the applicant. Four building
types are proposed for the future multi -family structures within the development. The
architectural character of the structures comply with the standards listed in the City of
Meridian architectural standards manual. The applicant is required to obtain approval of
a certificate of zoning compliance and administrative design review prior to receiving a
building permit for the project. The proposed plat consist of 16 residential building lots,
four common lots, and two other lots, as I said, on approximately 10.68 acres of land.
The smallest lot is 11,514 square feet in size and the average lot size is 20,183 square
feet. Staff has reviewed the proposed plat for compliance with the dimensional
standards listed in the UDC. Access to this property -- and back to the landscape -- or
the site plan -- it's going to be off Copperpoint Drive and Copperpoint Way and the
access is indicated here in two locations. There are no stub streets proposed to
adjacent properties. The Ridenbaugh Canal runs along the entire length of the southern
boundary. East Copperpoint Drive or East Copperpoint Way abut the property to the
north and the property to the west was developed in 2003 without a cross -access
connection. A 20 foot -- a 25 foot wide landscape buffer is required adjacent to the
south and west boundaries. A minimum of ten percent or approximately 1.06 acres of
the area of the site is required to be consistent with the UDC in what we call qualified
open space. The applicant has proposed approximately 1.39 acres of qualified open
space or proximately 13 percent. The applicant proposes a swimming pool, a
clubhouse, with an exercise room, an additional 50 by 100 open grassy area, tot lot, and
additional tenant storage as amenities. These amenities that just meet the
requirements of the UDC and, as I mentioned, there is a -- Ridenbaugh Canal runs
along the southern boundary of the site. Because the center line of the ditch lies on the
property line and it is a very large drain, the applicant requests a waiver to the UDC,
which requires all irrigation ditches, laterals, canals or drains to be piped and due to --
due to the large capacity of the facility. A six foot tall open -- open vision fence having
11 gauge, two inch mesh, or other construction equivalent in ability to deter access to
the waterway is required along the Ridenbaugh Canal, unless the drain is improved as a
water amenity. So, Commission did recommend approval. Summary of that public
hearing was Matt Schultz and Doug McMaster were in favor. Nancy Boudreaux, John
Boudreaux, Eric Gabrielson, Paul Hosford, Gary Manikern, Ron Pascal, Ted Rackham,
Gale Stocking, Carol Gabrielson, Ron Porter, Pamela Judy, Rulon Stocking, were in
opposition. Those same folks commented. Written testimony was received from Eric
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and Carol Gabrielson and Ron and Catherine Porter. I was the staff that presented the
application, with additional comments from Andrea Pogue and Bill Parsons. The issues
of discussion -- of public testimony were concerns about the increased traffic through
the surrounding residential neighborhood, concerns about how the impact of increased
traffic will impact the safety of the children in the neighborhood. Concerns about
adequate parking being provided for the multi -family development. Concerns about
adequate vehicle access to the site. Concerns about the lack of access being required
for the previously approved Movado Estates project. Concerns over whether multi-
family is appropriate in this location. And the key issues of discussion by the
Commission were discussion on the density being proposed. Traffic through the area,
traffic impact on the area with commercial versus residential. Question whether multi-
family residential was appropriate in a C -G zoned parcel. Question as to whether the
parking was sufficient for the number of units. Concerns about having multiple owners
within the development and lack of uniformity in maintenance. There were no
outstanding issues, aside from the request to keep the Ridenbaugh Canal open. Did
receive additional testimony from Linda Leach and Eric and Carol Gabrielson since the
Planning and Zoning Commission. Stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions at this time? Josh, I guess when
this came through in the early 2000s what was envisioned or presented at that time as a
vision for this area?
Beach: It is in the Silverstone office park. I'm not sure there was a specific use
designated for this lot. I will say that we are seeing a lot of folks requesting multi -family
in the -- in the C -G zoning as a conditional use. There is an extra layer. So, I guess
don't know the answer to that. I think --
De Weerd: Did they have a conceptual plan?
Beach: Not that I saw.
De Weerd: As we take the applicant's comments if you can -- if there is a chance you
can pull that up that would be great.
Beach: Will do.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Schultz: Good evening, Mayor Tammy, Council. Matt Schultz. 8421 South Ten Mile in
Meridian. Here on behalf of the McMaster Limited Partnership, the McMaster family,
who have asked me to assist them in assembling the design team and the engineering
and planning team to best utilize this property he's owned for about 12 years now, since
2006. This was annexed and zoned as part of the bigger Sutherland Farm application
in 2002 by Trevor Roberts. I remember in 2000 1 as an engineer with JUB doing tests
holes on Sutherland Farm and this particular site had a little race track on it and you can
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see it on the aerials, as part of the original horse farm. So, did not work on that
application, but I do know that at the time Silverstone was just kind of getting going.
They were coordinating and he did ask for annexation of -- of this piece, C -G, north of
the canal. Everything south of the canal he asked for an R-4 PUD in that -- you guys
did PUDs at that time and in that PUD he had some kind of blank spots for future
potential multi -family and office potentially. How the dust has settled after -- you know,
fast forward all these years is there is a little mini storage up on Eagle Road that I guess
would fall into the mixed use, but the rest of it has come in as a single family residential.
There was a previous attempt out on Easy Jet to do some multi -family that kind of got
dissuaded from continuing forward that I kind of picked up the Berkley Building
Company to do some detached family homes a couple years ago. So, I know they are
sick of hearing from me, because I -- I keep doing the subdivisions around them. But
this one is -- is one that we think is appropriate for -- for this -- for multi -family under the
C -G as an allowed use. The planning commission approved that last month or two
months ago. I apologize for not being able to make it last week. We had a noticing
problem and, then, it cascaded into conflicting with some other hearing and, then, it was
just going to be out of control if I didn't bump it a week, so I apologize for that. You
know, these hearings bump into the hearings, but -- but the idea being that they did
approve it as a CUP, and if not for the fact that we were preliminary platting this, we
wouldn't be here, we would just be doing -- we would be moving ahead with our
development drawings and the conditional use permits for final action at P&Z. But we
are doing a preliminary plat, so you do have final say and it's my task to convince you
that this is the -- the right use and the right site plan for this particular piece of
development. So, one of the -- some of the design considerations that we had was --
we didn't even think about doing three story apartments or a three story apartment -- or
office building, like Citibank, which is just to the north of us. We went two story. In fact,
we are under 30 feet for our building heights. Our site is between six and ten feet below
Sutherland Farm, which is up above the canal and we are down below the canal. I'm
not going to say that, you know, somebody's view from a particular spot might not get
blocked, but there is a mature landscape pathway on their side. There is a six acre park
-- a private park on their side. I feel like we have got a good distance offer of 160 feet
between their closest home and our buildings, which are below, and only two story. So,
there is good I think transition. It's below density for multi -family at 11 .6, doing the
eight-plexes, two stories, with all the parking and open space required. Really, what
you will see on a standard R-40 or something like that is you will get around 18 to say
22 an acre. So, this is being done on 11 and a half. It is really kind of a low -- lower
density multi -family project. We got ample open space. Good amenities in the middle.
All two stories. Perimeter fencing along the canal, keep kids out of it, and I saw a letter
from the church to the west of us that wanted a fence between us and them, which --
which we will do as well. As far as parking goes, your commission is very staunch
about trying to get extra parking if they can get it. In my limited experience with multi-
family and hearing from other people -- when we came before them we exceeded it by
five spaces and after you go through the islands every ten space and the -- the drive
aisles and the open space requirements and everything else, it's -- you have a handful
of extra spaces, you say, man, we are good. But I did promise them that I would go
back through and see if I could tighten it up a little bit and so we were able to gain six
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more on top of the five, so we are actually plus 11 now in our final site plan. It was
trading a little bit of open space for a parking stall and it wasn't a big deal, it was just a
final iteration of some of the little nooks and crannies, if you will, where we could get a
few more spaces in. But we exceed our code. We agree with the staff report. A little
minor clarification for staff, though, is that buffer to the west. We were told it did not
have to be 25 feet going to the west in the last hearing. We have 15 or ten and the
adjacent parking stalls have like ten or 15. Between the two we have the buffer to their
parking lot, but we were told it didn't have to be all 25 on our side by staff in the last
hearing. So, I just want to clarify that for the record. But other than that, we think it's a
good match. It's a good site. It's within a mile. It's less than a mile to the Eagle
interchange, which is important I think for multi -family that we put our, quote, unquote,
density, which this is kind of a medium high density, close to our main, you know,
conveyance facilities, Eagle Road and the interchange. It's within a mile. So, I think
that's important to point out, too, that we think we are in a good location for that. I think
we have some great architectures. We hired Glancey Rockwell Architects to come up
with some options and we -- cost was not a concern, it was, like, man give us a -- give
us, you know, the coolest looking things you think you can give for us and I think these
renderings don't quite do it justice, but we think we got good architecture, too, and two
stories is important. I think out here we are not going three. So, with that I will stand for
rebuttal, which I'm sure I will have a few. They are not all here for me, I know that.
saw another application, but there is a few. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for the applicant?
Bernt: Madam Mayor, one question.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Schultz, can you confirm the percentage of open space? If I'm remembering
correctly, wasn't it above 20 percent?
Schultz: Yeah. Councilman Bernt, we are required to have 250 square feet per unit. In
an R zone, which we are now you required an additional ten percent, so they come out
about 20 percent open space. I think we hit that additional standard, even though we
weren't technically required to hit it. On the other ones we -- we do -- I mean they kind
of come out that way with the open space that you get and we definitely exceed it by a
lot.
De Weerd: So, what does that mean by a lot? What's your total open space?
Schultz: Well, we are about 10.7 acres. Ten percent would be one point -- you know,
1.7 acres and I think we are -- I have got it written, Mayor. I just need to find it. Maybe
if I put on my glasses.
De Weerd: I was just trying to help get an answer.
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Schultz: We -- we are at 60,000 square feet, which exceeds the requirement by double.
We are required 30,000 square feet. We have 60 for that 250 per, which is real close --
which is about an acre and a half. It's around that ten -- ten, 11 percent, I believe. Is it
13? Thank you.
De Weerd: So, 13 percent?
Schultz: Yes, ma'am.
De Weerd: And the question was are you at ten percent. Is that --
Schultz: No, it's not 20. I'm mistaken in that -- in that regard. I was thinking of those
that I got coming through.
Bernt: Yeah. That's what I think I was remembering.
Schultz: We had another one coming through. But it is twice the required for the 250
per -- per unit, which would be 30,000 square feet. We are at 60,000 square feet.
De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Matt, you touched on it, but I didn't hear an exact answer. How tall are these
structures going to be?
Schultz: The architect tells me they are under 30. Like 29 and a half feet. And the two
story requirement just single family residential is 35 feet. So, we are -- we are under
that.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any further questions from Council at this point?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: A real quick one. Matt, the fencing to the south, can you describe that for us?
Schultz: Sure will.
Borton: Along the south border.
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Schultz: Mr. Borton, yeah, we like to do a six foot wrought iron with the four inch gaps,
so kids can't get through it per code and for our open vision fencing it's also protective.
Not the -- not the mesh fence, more the wrought iron look.
Borton: Okay. Madam Mayor. One other question. One of the things that comes with
continuances, sometimes members of the public who can appear the first time, some
can't, and we read those e-mails and try and -- and I'm sure you do as well -- one of
them came from Colonel Larry Leach, who was unable to attend, I believe. At least his
e-mail said, if he's here. I'm reading his e-mail. But he had -- he had raised questions
and concerns he wanted to bring up last time with regards to the number of parking
spaces and can you speak to the parking spaces that are being provided and how this
property, as designed, properly accounts for visitor parking, as well as resident parking?
Schultz: I will give it a good shot, Mayor and Councilman Borton. So, your code
requires two spaces per two or three bedroom units and one and a half for every one
bedroom unit. If you use that formula and, then, one every 500 square feet of
clubhouse, if you add all that up we exceed that requirement by 11 spaces. Now, does
those two spaces per two bedroom unit cover everybody and their parking all the time?
Probably not. But at the same time there is some -- some people that have two
bedroom units that only have one car as well and I think by exceeding your code by 11
that we have done all we can in that regard and there may be some on -street parking
on Copperpoint allowed, you know, we are widening that out and whether or not ACHD
allows parking that, that's up to them. But we are widening it out ourselves to allow for
on -street parking and two-way traffic. So, there is a lot more even, you know, that could
be there as well in terms of overflow. But it's -- not for this one, but for the next one,
please -- I mean if you guys don't like your code, please, change it, because it's really
hard, after you go through this process, this iterative process, to lose ten units just
because people don't like their code quite as much as maybe they should, which is kind
of where we are at. But we really think we have got -- we have got good parking and
like the fact there is some storage in this layout, too, since we are speaking parking, but
we could have put more parking where that storage is at.
Borton: Sure.
Schultz: But we chose to put some storage. So, you're kind of balancing all of those
things --
Borton: Certainly.
Schultz: -- you know, open space, or in this and this and this and this and -- and we
have more than what's required. So, we think we have a good site plan.
De Weerd: Well, our code suggests minimums --
Schultz: They do.
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De Weerd: And so that -- you can always exceed it and this is commercial, you are
proposing apartments, which are allowed, but when people look at commercial on a plat
they think office, retail, those kind of things. So, when you come in with something
allowed, but envisioned differently -- and that's why this is a CUP, you know, the parking
is an issue.
Schultz: I understand that, Mayor, and I appreciate your concerns with the parking. It's
real hard for us as a consultant, when we exceed code and have different options and
provide all these things, though, to suggest to our clients that we lose a million dollar
building. I -- I can't recommend it, you know, myself over -- you know, to gain -- you
know, I can't, you know. But you guys can, you know, and I'm not suggesting that you
say lose a building to pick up ten spaces or whatever, but those are the constraints we
are operating under is to balance everything and still come out ahead and that's -- that
was our goal.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I don't mean to take this sideways, but I agree with Mr. Schultz and -- I mean
realize I don't like anything at a minimum and at least he is exceeding the minimum and
I don't know when that -- we made that code for the amount of parking spaces, maybe
that should be revisited. In this day and age everybody has a car and some people
have two cars and -- and it is -- it does get very crowded and just for future maybe we
should revisit that and consider raising the minimum, but --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Schultz: Thanks.
De Weerd: Josh, a quick question on Copperpoint Way. Is that designed to allow
parking?
Beach: My recollection is that Copperpoint Way itself here is designated partially as a
collector, but Copperpoint -- yeah, Copperpoint Drive is just a local street. So, there
would be parking available on Copperpoint Drive, but not on Copperpoint Way.
De Weerd: Okay. Where are you able to look at the original plat?
Beach: There is a bubble plan. Let me pull it up here for you. It contemplates it a little
bit differently than -- than the way the applicant -- it's all just one parcel. There is not a
lot of detail in what is being proposed there, but the -- this was annexed in with the
Sutherland Farms project and they did designate this as C -G. So, what did -- it did not
come in as part of the Silverstone. I was incorrect on that. But there isn't any further
detail as to what was being proposed for those lots, other than the configuration you
see.
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De Weerd: And the front part of that -- or the part to the west, that's all office?
Beach: Here?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Beach: I believe that's correct.
De Weerd: Okay.
Beach: There is a church and some other ancillary uses there, but, again, it's not --
that's part of the overall Silverstone project, but there are some -- some differing uses
there that are not residential.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Mr. Clerk, we will enter into the public process and so I
will ask you to read off those that have signed the list.
Coles: Very good. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I will start with the name from the
previous project. Lorraine Kleint was signed up against with no indication of testimony.
De Weerd: Oh, that one isn't -- okay. You don't need to apologize. That's fine.
Coles: Jessica O'Shell signed up against, not wishing to testify. Jennae Van Sickle just
signed the list with no indication of for or against or testimony.
De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: Ethel Edward, the same, no indication of for or against and no indication of
testimony. David Ballard against, wishing to testify, and I believe he is representing the
Apostolic Bible Church, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Ballard: Good evening. My name is David Ballard. I'm an attorney in Meridian. I
reside at 24 --
De Weerd: David, can you move closer to the microphone.
Ballard: Okay. Start over. Start the clock, too?
De Weerd: It does.
Ballard: Okay. David Ballard. I'm an attorney in Meridian. I reside at 2482 East
Springwood in Meridian. With me this evening is Reverend John Mascroft. He is the
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pastor at Apostolic Bible Church. We had filed written opposition last Friday. In large
part, Pastor Mascroft's church is a parking space lot to the immediate west. No
impediment to get access to it or to crossover on the buffer. We were asking that a
condition of approval would be the installation of a fence along the western boundary to
be a barrier. Appreciate Mr. Schultz making the concession, if I heard him correctly,
that they would install a fence. What was not described was the type of fence or
delineate the condition of the fence. What would be acceptable would be a six foot
wood fence -- wood pickets, which would be a barrier, so there would not be sight as
such between the park -- the church's lot and the development. With the consent of the
developer or the applicant I believe that that clears the way as well for the Council to
make that a condition of the plat. I have read in the record concerns about the traffic
impact. I think that has to be taken into account. It's within the purview of the intent of
the ordinances that each lot be able to develop and maintain itself as it prefers. So,
housing is on this side, commercial is on this side, there should be a barrier between
the two. With the description of the type of fence, I believe that that completes this part
of the presentation and stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Ballard. Council, any questions?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Ms. Milam.
Milam: It's just to clarify, Mr. Ballard, you are not against the project as long as you
have a fence in between the church and the project -- a six foot wood picket fence.
Solid.
Ballard: That is -- that is correct. I was just asking for a barrier to be established
between the two lots. It will be real convenient for somebody to pull into the church
parking lot and keep them from using their property.
Milam: Thank you.
Ballard: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Ballard: Thank you.
Coles: I did also have John Mascroft signed up wanting to testify, but -- very good.
Leanne Mascroft, signed up against, not wishing to testify. Danielle Weeks signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Fred Thompson signed up against, wanting to provide
testimony.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
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Thompson: My name is Fred Thompson. I live at 2853 South Nephrite Way, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Thompson: I think that gets us started.
De Weerd: Yes, it does.
Thompson: Madam Mayor, Commissioners, Council, the project, in my opinion, is
totally inappropriate with so much of a living space embedded in -- embedded in a
totally commercial -- primarily commercial area just south of the city. The second
objection on that is the -- there is no way to tell from the diagram that's presented just
how wide Copperpoint -- Copperpoint Way is going to be. Copperpoint Way -- right now
I regularly take exercise riding my bicycle down Copperpoint Way as it exists right now
and there are times when -- even on my bicycle if there is a car coming the other way I
have to get over and actually stop in order to -- in order to allow the car to pass.
believe it's unsafe to have Copperpoint Way as a major ingress and egress route. The
next thing is that given the amount of traffic on Eagle Road, particularly in the morning
and in the evening, sometimes traffic will get backed up all the way to Easy Jet from
Overland and that's going to impede ingress and egress onto Copperpoint Drive from
that location. The other southern -- excuse me -- the northerly ingress and egress on
Cobalt -- Cobalt Point Way from Overland is -- is often backed up because of traffic on
Overland. The obvious thing for people to do is to take -- to take Knapp -- to take
Knapp and divert themselves through the southern -- the Sutherland Farm housing area
and move over into Muir Woods in order to -- in order to egress and ingress from that.
The other -- the other way -- once -- once they are over onto Easy Jet then -- then they
have got -- then they have got a choice to take Baystar and head -- and head south to
Victory, which in and of itself, not being a regulated intersection, can -- can often cause
a backup at that point. We are creating a lot of traffic through the Sutherland Woods --
Muir -- Sutherland Farm, Muir Woods tracts here and I object to the -- I object to this
proposal primarily on that traffic. The parking is going to be inadequate, I believe, even
though it meets -- it meets the standards, even though it meets the code. If you allow
parking along Copperpoint Way you are only going to likely be able to do that on one
side. You won't be able to do it on two. So, I think I'm asking the -- I'm asking the
Council to reject this proposal based on those things. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you so much.
Coles: Joyce Ashcraft signed up saying she didn't want to provide testimony, but didn't
indicate either for or against. Dean Ashcroft signed up against, not wishing to provide
testimony. Edsel Martin signed up against, not wishing to testify. Lynn Martin signed
up against, not wishing to testify. Dean Reese signed up against, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
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Reese: Thank you, Council and Mayor, for giving me the opportunity. My name is
Dean Reese. I live at 3867 East Mackey Court, Meridian, which is in Sutherland Farm
Subdivision, phase one, and just to start this off for the record, on my way here tonight
coming up Eagle Road trying to go westbound on 1-84 1 had to sit through three stoplight
cycles before I could get onto 1-84. That's what the traffic is like now and that's before
this project and Movado, which is 700 units is coming online near -- in our little square
mile surrounded by Overland, Cloverdale, Victory and Eagle. Excuse me. But --
anyway. So, that's part of the traffic situation. Now, the next thing is -- it's my opinion
and, unfortunately, I was out of town during the planning commission meetings, but
when I looked at the design, this design does not fit our subdivision at all. We have got
these apartment buildings with a 3/12 pitched roof on them. It looks like a bunch of
lean-tos and I -- I think it should be sent back to the planning commission to -- to get a
redesign on this to make it look a little more like our Sutherland Farm Subdivision. Next
-- next item is -- and I realize the City Council and -- it doesn't really take into account
the school situation, but these are the facts. Right now there are a hundred -- let's see.
A hundred and twenty-four seats available in the three elementary schools closest to
the subdivision and that's it. The closest middle school is currently at 939 out of a
thousand. So, we have got like 61 seats available in the nearest middle school. If you
got the flyer from the West Ada School District, which everybody that lives in the area
should have got, you look through it, there are no plans whatsoever for any schools
south of 1-84 in this proposal. So, therefore, I think this project should be rejected.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Reese.
Reese: Okay. Thank you.
Coles: John and Rebecca Tucker signed up against, not wanting to provide testimony.
Robert Neilson signed up against with a question mark in the testimony column.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Neilson: Good evening. My name is Robert Neilson. I live at 3508 East Quinn Drive in
Meridian. Thank you for the opportunity to testify. Several items. First of which is when
you look at the overall development in the area there is a question of whether
commercial development would be more appropriate than apartment development.
Certainly be more consistent with what's happening with the Silverstone business park.
But perhaps my -- my main concern with some of what has been proposed here was
each of the multi -family buildings that are being proposed would be separately platted,
which would allow separate ownership of each of the buildings. So, potentially, you
have got 16 different investors, each owning a building and the question comes what is
being done to make sure that we have good maintenance and appearance of those
buildings over time. Now, I know at the original neighborhood meeting Mr. Schultz said,
well, there is CC&R type agreement that says that the owners will have to appropriately
maintain their buildings. But, then, again, there was no indication of any enforcement
mechanism. One thing I learned tonight was they -- they mentioned that there was a
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clarification in the last two weeks that on the western boundary would only require a 15
foot separation from the property line to any building activity, rather than 25 -- rather
than 25 feet and it would be nice to get some clarification from what that is and why --
why the apparently 25 foot separation was reduced. Another thing we were told is if you
are concerned about parking, is we can't afford to remove a million dollar multi -family
building and still make this -- this project work. But there are three separate storage
buildings, which I suspect would not cost anywhere near a million dollars apiece, that
could, one or more, be removed to provide additional parking if -- if additional parking is
needed, because when you look at how things are happening these days with multiple
bedrooms, you have people that are subleasing within apartments, bringing more cars
than the city code requires and maybe the city code needs to be updated, maybe not,
but certainly the nature of the matter is is with economics the way they are these days,
know people where you have got two and three bedroom apartments that have four, six
people living them -- in them, each with their own car, rather than thinking that this is a
family, as opposed to unrelated occupants. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Brian Avilla signed up against, not wishing to testify. Scott and Becky Brisbane
signed up against, not wishing to testify. Janelle Avilla signed up against with no
indication of testimony. David Rios signed against, no indication of testimony. Jose
Hernandez signed up against, with no indication of testimony. Ryan Stalcup signed up
against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Welcome back. If you will, please, state your name for the address -- or for
the record. For the address. Name and address.
Stalcup: Thank you. Brian Stalcup. I'm at 3772 East Rajja Drive here in Meridian. I
will try and not rehash too much of what I said last week, because I think everybody
else is doing a pretty good job at that. One of the things that has me really concerned
this evening is that this -- this drawing that we are seeing is much different than what
was presented in the community meeting that was held in November. This one is much
worse, actually, especially for me, because if you look at the -- at the building closest to
the Ridenbaugh Canal in the lower -- I guess it would be the lower right-hand corner
there, that, basically, hangs into my backyard directly between me and Bogus Basin.
So, I'm totally in love with that. But as far as what everybody else has said about the
plat and the design of the location, it just doesn't seem to fit in that community at all.
For the same reasons that everybody is concerned about this one, are the same
reasons that they were concerned about a much smaller project on Eagle and Easy Jet
and that one everybody saw was certainly not appropriate. This one creates a new set
of problems. The park that we keep talking about in the context of this development, is,
of course, a private park, but there is not really much else for the residents of this
community to do besides go and attend one of the parks in our community, which poses
a host of new challenges. The schools -- I think everybody pretty much did a great job
of covering that. They are already pretty well stocked. My little one is over here
learning about city government tonight and he could tell you just how crowded the
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schools are. But I certainly appreciate the Council's time in hearing this. I'm certainly
opposed to the project, not just for -- for my personal use, but I think it's a terrible use of
that plat and consideration of the other items that are already ongoing adjacent to that
property. So, thank you for your consideration.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Mary Martin signed up against, not wishing to testify. Carl McVey signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Carole Gabrielson signed up against, wanting to provide
testimony.
Gabrielson: Good evening. My name is Carole Gabrielson. I live at 4231 East Easy
Jet Drive. I'm here tonight in opposition to the Harper Ridge Subdivision and I oppose it
for the following reasons: One of the objections that Commissioner Yearsley addressed
in his vote against this project is the issue of allowing multiple owners within the
development. Even one management -- even with one management company it can be
difficult to make multiple owners maintain their properties in a manner that is consistent
with the rest of the development. Commissioner Perreault agrees, stating that there is a
similar development near where she lives that has multiple ownership. She notes that
the buildings are in different states of maintenance at any one time and it has affected
the development. After the public hearing was closed on Harper Ridge, the
Commissioners discussed the issue of multiple ownership. They were looking for a way
to recommend one owner for the development. Mr. Parsons from the Planning Division
made the following statement: While the staff report says that they need to provide us a
maintenance agreement, it doesn't specifically say one owner. So, if that's how you
want it read we can certainly add that verbiage in there for you. After Commissioner
Yearsley's motion to deny Harper Ridge failed to gain a second, excuse me,
Commissioner Wilson offered the following motion: After considering all staff, applicant,
and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to City Council of H-2017-0151 as
presented in the staff report with the following modifications: That there be an additional
ten parking spots and that we recommend to City Council that there be one owner of
this property that can -- and that that be added to the conditions. This motion was
seconded and approved by all the commissioners, except for Commissioner Yearsley. I
have read through the staff report several times and I don't see where either the
additional ten parking spots or the one owner has been added to the staff report. When
Sutherland Farm spot the apartment complex at Easy Jet and Eagle, we did a survey of
apartment units within a three mile radius of our subdivision. Within that radius there
are 854 apartment units. With the addition of 112 unit apartment complex in Movado
there will be a total of 966 units available. Many of these offer one, two, and three
bedroom options. With the current subdivisions and apartment units, every type of
housing has already been addressed adequately. We do not need more rental units. It
is worth noting that the developers of Movado took 200 units out of their apartment plan.
I think that that is a clear indication that they feel the rental market is nearing the
saturation point. I totally agree with Commissioner Yearsley that this piece of property
should remain commercial and I have a suggestion that instead of coming here and
saying no, no, no, I thought it would be nice to make a suggestion, maybe, of what we
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would like to see on that property. I would love to have the City of Meridian purchase
that property and put a library there. Our library at Silverstone is very very busy. It's --
it's renting and leasing that space. This is just absolutely the perfect spot to have it.
You have multiple subdivisions, including Movado, that could have access via walking
paths. You have two elementary schools and a high school in close proximity. There
are two large day cares within walking distance. This piece of land offers space for a
large library with ample room for parking and --
De Weerd: Ma'am.
Gabrielson: -- space for future expansion.
De Weerd: Ma'am, I'm sorry, you need to summarize.
Gabrielson: Okay. I'm done. Thank you for listening to my comments. But I would like
to have P&Z tell me why those two conditions didn't end up in the staff report. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Ma'am.
Borton: I have got a question.
De Weerd: We have a question.
Borton: It might not be a question. Maybe it's an answer. Josh, correct me if I'm citing
it wrong. There is a condition 1.1.3 in the staff report that speaks to the requirement to
add those additional ten parking spaces? That's how I see it referenced in there.
Gabrielson: There is parking and he does -- it says in that -- underneath the parking
that there is ten additional parking spaces, but that's not including these extra ten,
because he has two hundred and -- it's -- the 238 is what is required. He has 248. But
on top of that Planning and Zoning was asking for an additional ten parking spaces and
I can't see where that was put into the -- into the staff report.
Beach: I will have to look at the --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Sorry. I got a question for you, too. Sorry.
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Gabrielson: Yes.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. And this is for yourself and maybe anybody else who might
have any concerns about parking when they come and testify. Are you concerned
about people parking down inside of the subdivision that you live in or maybe adding it
to -- or people parking along Copperpoint?
Gabrielson: I just don't think that there is adequate parking for this particular
development. You have -- you have three bedroom apartment units and you're only
allowing two cars for that. I see the possibility that you are going to have three people
in a three bedroom apartment and you are going to have three cars and there just isn't a
lot of space for those cars to go. The only additional space -- Copperpoint is a collector
street. They can't park on it. So, the only place for those cars to go is into business
parking lots and I think we have already had the church tonight come and tell you that
they do not want that and I think that you're going to have some issues. We have
people going into parking lots of businesses and trying to park, because there isn't
adequate parking.
Palmer: Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anything further? Thank you so much. I thought I would ask
before you sat down.
Coles: The next on the list was Eric Gabrielson, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
E.Gabrielson: Good evening. My is Eric Gabrielson. I reside at 4231 East Easy Jet
Drive in Meridian.
De Weerd: You want to pull that closer.
E.Gabrielson: Part of the Sutherland Farm Subdivision. Madam Mayor, City Council
Members, I'm here tonight in opposition to the Harper Ridge Subdivision. I oppose it for
the following reasons: On page 15 of the P&Z staff report, Item 1-G, deals with
conditions of operations that will be detrimental, such as the excessive production of
traffic. The report says: Staff recognizes the fact that traffic and noise will increase with
approval of this development, however, whenever undeveloped property is developed
the amount of traffic generation does increase. What they don't say is the amount of the
traffic increase. Harper Ridge uses the identical road system as Movado. It is short-
sighted not to take into account the consideration of the traffic from Movado. This was
not adequately addressed when this development was approved. It is inexcusable that
it was ever approved without access to Cloverdale. Movado Way and streets within
Silverstone business park are not going to handle the amount of traffic generated by
526 homes. The developer is trying to funnel most of the traffic out to Overland Road.
When Norco's corporate headquarters and showroom are completed this spring, a great
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deal of traffic will be added to the route and we all know that Norco is just the tip of the
iceberg on this large piece of undeveloped property. As the business park roads and
Movado Way become more congested, the traffic was to start to come up through Muir
Wood and Sutherland Farm. A subdivision will provide the interconnectivity to move the
traffic. The city knows very well the high amount of traffic through our neighborhood
leads to a loss of property value and livability. On top of Movado you now want a 124
unit townhome complex that ACHD says will generate about 825 vehicle trips per day.
To say the least, the homeowners of Sutherland Farm and Muir Woods do not agree
with the P&Z's assessment of traffic increase. The Harper's second point -- the Harper
Ridge structures are not compatible with or similar to any homes or businesses in
Sutherland Farm, Sutherland Downs, Muir Woods, Movado, or Silverstone business
park. All of the existing subdivisions around Harper Ridge have similar home styles and
have HOAs having strict guidelines. They are all traditional type homes. The Harper
Ridge townhomes are modernistic boxes that fit in with nothing in the surrounding area.
These type of structures are cheaper to build, because they include few architectural
features. The last item I would like to discuss, the lack of adequate parking for Harper
Ridge. The total parking spots required by UDC Table 11-3C-6 is 238. Two hundred
and forty-eight spaces have been provided in the site plan, but ten of these spaces are
ADA or handicap parking. While these ADA spots are necessary and legally required,
they can only be used by a small group of people. Commissioner McCarvel requested
Mr. Schultz to come up with an additional -- ten additional spots and this was supposed
to be one of the modifications that was added to the P&Z approval of Harper Ridge. In
February 24th e-mails to Josh Beach Mr. Schultz said that they will have -- only be able
to come up with seven additional. This will not begin to -- to provide adequate parking,
especially when there is no street parking available on Copperpoint Way. The spread
provides for --
De Weerd: Mr. Gabrielson, can you summarize.
E.Gabrielson: Yeah. This provides -- will not provide for residents or overflow for
parking for visitors. The visitors will be parking in neighboring businesses, which I don't
think would be too happy for that occurring. Thank you for listening to my comments.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you.
Coles: Katie Flanagan signed up against, not wishing to provide testimony. Anna
Hernandez signed up against, not wishing to testify. Shane Carmichael signed up
against, with no indication of testimony. Gale Stocking signed up against, not wishing to
testify. Reylon Stocking signed up against, not wishing to testify. Don Steinke signed
up again, not wishing to testify. Debbie Steinke signed up against, not wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you. We will move them.
Coles: Paul Hosford signed up against, not wishing to testify. Kathy Hosford signed up
against, not wishing to testify.
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De Weerd: Yes, ma'am. Good evening. Yes, please, pull it down. If you will, please,
state your name and address.
Hosford: My name is Kathy Hosford. 2711 South Knapp Avenue in Meridian and live in
the Sutherland Farm community.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hosford: I feel that there is so much better use for this property being commercial. We
already know the schools are crowded -- overcrowded and we already know that the
traffic has gotten worse and if we are building all these houses, why not put more
commercial in there, so that they have a place to work. We are just oversaturated with
apartments and houses and traffic and I just feel there is so much more use for that
than having more apartments. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kathy.
Coles: Brian Harper signed up against, not wishing to testify. William Simms signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Katrina Simms against, not wishing to testify. Charles
Villa signed up against, no indication of testimony. Joe Martin against, no indication of
testimony. Stephanie Baird signed up against, with no indication of testimony. Howard
Baird against, no indication of testimony. Susan Simms against, no indication of
testimony. Irene Williams against, no indication of testimony. Terrell Williams against,
wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Williams: Terrell Williams, 4267 East Easy Jet Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Williams: Want is such a strong word. Excuse me. I'm recovering from a cold. I really
can't add too much. There have been some very strong arguments here against this
project. I think we have to keep in mind, as was pointed out, the Movado is going to be
-- the major egress to the south for Movado is going to be across Copperpoint Way.
Copperpoint Way is not much more than a wide alley at this point. I did hear something
about perhaps that being widened, but I would want the Commission to be sure that that
will happen before anything else occurs here. As far as the project itself, it's the wrong
project in the wrong place. Certainly the buildings do not fit at all with the character of
the buildings around it. The Commission has a very strong responsibility to protect us
from interests that may be purely profit driven and as a business professor I understand
profit and I appreciate it, but we also have to consider the people in the community.
This is not a good idea. There are a lot of things that could be better here. I love the
idea of a library. That was great. So, for all the reasons that have been mentioned
here, I would suggest that you send this back for reconsideration for a better set of
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buildings here, something that would fit in, something that doesn't add tremendously to
the traffic issues in that area, because we are going to have a lot of it coming into
Sutherland Farm. There is no other way. There is no egress from Copperpoint -- out
Copperpoint Way. There is no light onto Easy Jet. So, you are going to have people
coming back the other way. You're driving traffic in ways that are just almost impossible
to support. Please, please, take your responsibility to help us here. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Williams.
Coles: Ron Porter signed up against, with no indication of testimony. Catherine Porter
signed up against, with no indication of testimony. Sarah Watts against, no indication of
testimony. Dorothy Guiley signed up against, no indication of testimony. Pam Judy
against, no indication of testimony. Bonnie Broussard against, no indication of
testimony.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Broussard: Good evening. My name is Bonnie Broussard. I live at 2662 South Teddy
Avenue, Meridian, Idaho. Madam Mayor and Council Members, I just wanted to
address the fact that with all of the development that's going on in south Meridian all the
way to Kuna, I had received a letter through NextDoor about -- that was provided by
Southwest Ada County Alliance and they had done some research where COMPASS
has projected that between now and 2040 that over 60,000 new people will be living in
that area. So, we are going to have a major impact with the growth from the area and
so I was just wondering how are we addressing that with providing places for these
people to work, because that's what this -- the Silverstone Subdivision provides is office
buildings for these people to work and so right now there is such a congestion of traffic
coming through to get to work in Meridian and Boise and Nampa, but if we could
provide some more office space and places for them to go -- we have that right now
with Silverstone, but we are taking it away with these apartments. So, are we approving
things like that to be built in that area or is it just going to be more housing and maybe a
couple of retail places for grocery shopping or something. It seems like that we are
overlooking the fact that we need this type of infrastructure here for jobs and quality of
life for the people that are -- it's almost like another town for 60,000 people. So, I just
would like to see how that's being addressed. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bonnie.
Coles: Vern Williams up against, with no indication of testimony. And, Madam Mayor,
that was all that I had on these sign -in sheets.
De Weerd: Okay. Those were the sign-up sheets. Is there anyone who would like to
provide testimony that wasn't on that list or -- yes, Mr. Brown. Or has changed your
mind, you would like to provide testimony, that would be good, too. Please state your
name and address for the record.
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Brown: For the record Kent Brown, 3161 East Springwood.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Brown: I have no dog in this fight, if you will, but looking at your Comprehensive Plan,
your Ten Mile interchange, you tried to have employment centers and have higher
density residential close to those centers, you have done the same thing in EI Dorado
that's across the street. There is two or three apartment complexes. There is a little
higher density R-15 residential housing that's in there. I see this being the same type of
use. There is -- I think it's kind of been overlooked that many of these residents could
work in the businesses that are adjacent and wouldn't have to commute. That's one of
the goals when -- in your Comprehensive Plan is to catch those people closer to where
they work. My wife had a business on Overload for a number of years. We would see
people walking all the way from the high school to come to work in Silverstone. They
needed that job, but they were -- they would come into my wife's shop and they talked
about making that commute walking back and forth, because they didn't have a car. So,
I think that this use is appropriate in this location and it's kind of what you have asked us
to do in other locations. So, those are my opinions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Good evening.
Sammartino: Hello. My name is Vel Sammartino and I live at 3712 East Rajja in
Sutherland Farm.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Sammartino: I just want to go on record as opposed to this project. The way I see it
and what I hear tonight that you're proposing 600 new residences on -- feeding into
Overland and Eagle Road, which is already way overcrowded. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Vel. Any further testimony? Okay. I will ask the applicant to
come up an address the comments made and give closing remarks.
Schultz: Mayor Tammy, Council, I'm going to try to address all these remarks. I took
pretty good notes I think. So, as far as the church goes, the Apostolic Bible Church,
that's not a problem to put a --
De Weerd: Matt, I can you pull the microphone.
Schultz: It's a good point to put a fence between us to -- to keep separate parking areas
and that's a good idea. The fence will be vinyl will probably be what we prefer for
maintenance. Wood doesn't last very long in this climate around here. We would like --
it's more expensive than wood, it's -- it's more durable than wood and that's probably
what we would -- what we would propose along there. If he wants a non -vision or if you
require open vision, we will do the six foot wrought iron. We are open to either. And if
you are not opposed to it, we will do the six foot vinyl. It's cheaper cost wise. As far as
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Copperpoint Way is concerned, it does need to get widened, just to make it a standard
road right now. I think they did a half plus 12 when they did the north development of
Silverstone, so we were required -- I believe it's seven or eight feet of pavement, curb,
gutter, sidewalk. We are going to do a detached sidewalk on our side. So, there will be
an extra lane -- parking lane added, if you will, that would allow -- and a 50 foot right of
way section and ACHD's 50 foot right of way section allows to way traffic with parking
on both sides of the street, unless they choose to no park it and that's kind of out of our
control. We are building it for them, we give it to them, and they make it so the -- for the
record, ACHD has approved this site. ACHD did make us do a traffic study trip
generation analysis accounting for Movado and although there is more traffic than
people would like -- than I would like, it's still within the thresholds and their
requirements and there is no -- no big bells and whistles went off in their minds and they
operate at a whole different level than I do as a resident that hates people going in front
of my house, too, and speeding and things like that. I wish Sutherland Farm developer
would have designed those nine lots that face that road next to the park, so that they
would be non -front, by he didn't. He's long gone. He's kind of set a situation that there
is some people that get a lot of that cut -through in front of their houses right there. But
the rest of -- going out to Easy Jet is a collector. It may not be a collector on ACHD's
land use map, but it functions as one. There is no on -street parking. We did Bancroft
Square on it and all the lots back up to it. But there is just that stretch going south to the
park and, then, heading east on Easy Jet, which I think most of our traffic wants to go
north, wants to go west. Movado has provided extra egress, if you will, and -- to
Overland through Silverstone and through them. So, yes, Movado has been brought
up. Yes, that's out of our control. Yes, they are way larger than we are and their main
ingress and egress is a collector road that comes off of Overland and goes way back
into their subdivision and so the primary traffic goes in and out to Overland with some
connections right here at our corner, kind of meandering detached somewhat. So, it's
not encouraged connection, but it is a connection, pedestrian and vehicular, which we
all -- we all promote. So, I believe we are safe on Copperpoint Way with what we are
required to build with this development through ACHD. As far as the architecture, we
didn't -- you know, the beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Modernistic was a term
heard describing us. These don't really do it justice, but, yes, we are probably at least
ten years newer than a lot of the homes around there and architects come up with
things that we think are going to be nice and it's not because they are cheaper, it's not
because they are less expensive, it's because that's the design feature and your staff
does require us to go through intensive design review after this to talk about, you know,
brick, stucco, stone, articulation, you know, all those things that -- and one thing
Meridian has done well, I think, in looking at other subdivisions -- or other apartment
complexes -- there is just a heavy emphasis on architecture and that comes, you know,
mostly from staff and the developer -- we are a team, but they enforce it and to make
sure these things look good and we go through that process with your staff on the
administrative level. This is an indication, but they will fine tune it when we get down
the exact plans, but it -- it definitely -- definitely will come out nice to the back end.
There is this idea that we can sacrifice a storage space for parking. We could. You
know, it's kind of balancing act. If you sacrifice one of these storage buildings that takes
up ten spaces. An additional ten. We could. If you say we should we will, but we are
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proposing to have a balance of having excessive and having storage and having --
having -- you know, kind of having a little bit of everything that -- that meets it. It's a little
bit arbitrary when people say, you know, Mr. Yearsley -- who I'm good friends with --
was like -- says how many spaces do you want, you know, just because he said more,
you know. I want -- and he says I went ten more. Say okay. So, we went back to the
drawing boards, found -- we already had five more, then we had six more, so we are
plus 11. If Council wants me to add four more to somewhere else, maybe we can
sacrifice half of a storage building to get four more, if that's the number that everybody
wants we will do it, but we feel, again, that we have met and exceeded code in that
regard. They say we don't fit the subdivision. Well, we are not in this subdivision, we
were part of the original annexation. We are on the other side of the canal. We have a
good buffer. We are different. I think our traffic is somewhat separated. It's not
completely separated, because that bridge is public. There is mentioned amenities that
people are going to be hanging out in their park. We have got a pool. They don't have
a pool. We like our amenities. We think they are going to hang out in our clubhouse
and our pool, you know. So, I'm not saying their parks aren't nice, they are beautiful.
love it. But it doesn't -- there is some -- you know, there is different amenities and we
have provided those for our residents to use and really spared no expense in that
regard. I appreciate Mr. Brown's comments. I didn't -- I swear I didn't tell him to come
up here. You know, he kind of gets up and it's like, hey, what's he going to say. I don't
know. But, yeah, he points out that there is some -- there is a lot, actually, office out
there already and this could be a complementing use to the existing office and future
office that's still to come out there on some undeveloped office parcels in Silverstone.
With that I will ask for approval and stand for any questions.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I have one question. Can you speak in regard to the land owner discussion that
was -- that was discussed at Planning and Zoning?
Schultz: Yes. Thanks. So, there is this idea that somehow, some way, that if you have
multiple owners that somehow the control has been lost and this is like subdivision HOA
where they, you know, they enforce where you can't park and things like that, but this is
taken to another level of legal control, financial control, the ability to make repairs and
assess if needed. As an apartment owners association it's a whole other level of robust
-- robust legal and financial powers to make sure that the work is done, whether they
pay for it or not -- because these are income producing properties and it behooves
everybody, if this were to separate -- not that it will, but it could and to individual owners
or half owned and half owned or something like that. There is huge financial incentives
to keep everything looking nice and there is powers that these owners have -- that the
HOA managers have to make sure that these things get done regardless.
Bernt: What are those powers? Sorry, Madam Mayor.
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Schultz: There is lien powers. There is special assessment powers. There is -- there is
the legal document that they are going to sign before they buy them that spells all that
out that we are going to provide to the Planning and Zoning with our -- with our final
application that will have all those spelled out as to exactly how values are going to be
maintained at their optimal level for everybody. Can't afford to let these million dollar
buildings deteriorate for anybody's sack. I mean there is incentives for everybody that
these legal powers will be enforced to make sure that things get fixed and are
maintained. Mr. McMaster wants the flexibility. He wants to build it all out. But for
financing and phasing purposes he wants to plat it. He would love to have this as a -- in
the family forever. We just don't know how it's going to go. He plans on building it.
De Weerd: So, Matt, if one of the building owners goes bankrupt what happens to that
building? We have seen bank -owned property and how it gets into disrepair. So, what
happens in that regard?
Schultz: Well, I'm aware -- but I do -- I have seen this happen and there is -- there is a
bankruptcy and somebody else buys it and in the meantime it is maintained by the -- an
assessment that is put on that property to be collected with the proceeds of that sale. I
mean there is ways to do this that go way beyond what we do in a residential HOA, you
know, where we are just telling people they can't park there or you can't paint your
house that color. I mean there is powers to go in and do these fixes, to make the
repairs, to keep these things full in order of vacancy -- the longest vacant is filled first
and all that. That are the -- that's the procedures these things go through.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Josh, can you pull up Condition 1.2.1 A? That speaks to the questions that are
being discussed.
De Weerd: While Josh does that, Matt, do you have the comparison of traffic counts for
apartments versus commercial, if it were office? Do you have any comparisons on
that? I tried to find it, but --
Schultz: I don't, Mayor, but I will just tell you some rough estimates I remember from
different sites that I have done is that apartments have less trip generation than single
family by like 30 percent or so in general and that -- I'm looking at another site right now
where we have half apartments in half single family and it's 70 percent less traffic than
Commercial. I'm taking retail commercial, big box, and some other things. So, there is
a -- there is a big trip generation difference in a positive way. It's not necessarily
intuitive, but retail and stuff is made to attract a lot of trips for coming and going, a short
turn around and homes don't typically have that short turn around on the traffic. So, you
think about it that way it makes sense and I just saw some numbers. I was shocked at
how much the reduction was from -- maybe not office. Office is different than retail
commercial. You know, commercial is a broad -- a broad use. It has a lot of different
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under it. We didn't do, hey, what if -- what if this was an office and here is residential,
what's the difference. We did not do that analysis on this, but I could find out, Mayor.
Just not tonight.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you. Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I think a lot of it would have to do with -- with the type of commercial. If it was a
call center with a couple thousand employees trip generation would be a lot more than -
- than the apartments. Just food for thought based on some comments that we heard.
Schultz: I don't know if Josh -- did we find that, about the condition of approval on the
HOA management and a building association management, if you will? It's not really a
homeowners association.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: I think that this is the condition of approval that addresses the requirement prior
to a certificate of occupancy.
Schultz: Absolutely. That is the condition that we are -- that we would do anyway if it's
the city's condition to us and they are going to review it and we -- we trust maybe --
these is no -- these are big asset incoming producing properties that we -- we have
every incentive to throw every legal power we can with these to keep them good for Mr.
McMaster and if he happens to sell one for both parties to make it all look good and
keep producing in a very competitive market for multi -family in a very nice area, that we
want to keep nice, so --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Those restrictions, once completed, recorded against the real property. Any
future owner would be subject to the same requirements, maintenance contribution for
repairs, et cetera?
Schultz: Absolutely. They run with the land no matter what if that property owner
changes hands. I think that covers it, unless I have missed something. I didn't mean to
-- intentionally mean to avoid anything. I'm a little under the weather. I apologize. But -
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Borton: Madam Mayor, there was one -- one question that I -- I don't know if it was --
there was reference to 238 parking spots, but you added ten, it became 248, but, then,
there was a reference to a P&Z commitment to add ten --
Schultz: Uh-huh.
Borton: -- so, to 258 -- 248.
Schultz: Just clarify that. The way it reads right now we are supposed to add ten over
what we had before and we had 248, like you said. You just said 248. And so we
would need to go to 258 to add four parking stalls, which we will do. We will find them
in this layout. They are there somewhere.
De Weerd: There also was a question on the setback and I see it's in Condition 1.2.3
on the landscape buffer to the -- to the west and that's because it's -- it's a commercial
use versus -- the apartment is considered commercial. So, they have reduced it to 15.
So, is that correct, Josh?
Beach: I can answer that question. Looking at the code, the code requires that there
be a buffer and the discussion that was had, from what I remember in Planning and
Zoning Commission, was there is approximately ten feet on the church side with the
addition of Matt's approximately 15 feet that meets the intent of the 25 feet. So, staff
was -- staff was agreeable that that met the -- met the intent of that section of code.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. So, in essence, between the two there is 25. Perfect.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener. Matt, you may have touched on it, but -- but I missed it.
I know you have talked to -- obviously at length about the fence along the church. What
about the early childhood learning center, is there a plan for a fence there and is your
plan to have it match whatever you put at the church or is it going to be a wrought iron
with spaces -- it's a little easier for a little kid to get through that than maybe a teenager.
Schultz: Mayor and Councilman Cavener, thanks for bringing that up about the other --
the preschool. They have an existing -- and looks steel. It's like a wrought iron on
steroids fence. It's nice looking. Around them. We intentionally -- if you look at our
layout -- I don't know if you have that, Josh, that color rendering. One of our first initial
layouts had our setbacks, you know, to the minimums and I said, no, no, no, no, we
need to pull that back and turn the buildings and, then, you can get that away from
there, so there is not rear patios overlooking, you know, that. So, we turned our
buildings -- if you look there -- so that they face east -west, if you will, and we pulled
back -- we doubled the setback, I think 25, 28, 30 -- it's somewhere that 25 to 30 foot
range where I mean code is at 12 or 15, but we intentionally jockeyed that away, put
extra landscaping in there and there is an existing nice -- very nice fence that they have
got around their facility right now that we are not planning to touch.
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De Weerd: So, the conceptual plan showed commercial, office platted conceptually.
Why did you decide to do apartments versus to continue what has been done in
Silverstone?
Schultz: Thanks, Mayor, for that question. If I can maybe just back up a little bit and
look at what -- what's shown here, but what was also shown on Sutherland Farm
originally in 2004. There were also some other areas of potential multi -family that were
from a PUD that never came about because of some shifting in some R-8 and some
protests and, then, shifted it all out. So, we just felt like in this particular piece, being
less than a mile off the interchange, being a complement to the existing office and work
uses, if you will, in the area and some restaurants, Eagle Road, that this was the best
use. As long as we did it in a way that was compatible and we do think it's compatible.
It's a two story level. We didn't go for a three story office building, which you guys
would have review over, but it would be allowed at least in a C -G. We have C -G
allowed. We could go in with a big tall building. So, we decided to kind of soften it up
and we just felt for the McMaster family this was something that they wanted to do with
this asset that they have owned for 12 years now, hoping that multi -family could be
done and being an allowed use. We thought it was a compliment, since nothing was
done south of the canal, so -- Movado has, obviously, changed somewhat things, but
we have a master plan, we are fitting in that master plan a mixed use regional and we
are part of that mixed use within the mixed use regional in this quadrant and so just
what he wanted to do and, hopefully -- hopefully you guys see fit to approve it with the
conditions that we have -- additional conditions that we -- or clarification that we have
tonight.
De Weerd: So, for part of the testimony -- I think it was Bonnie that had mentioned as
we look at the amount of homes and residences that -- what we will be serving, giving
up some of the commercial, office availability to employment opportunities versus filling
in those opportunities with -- with housing, do you have any comment to that?
Schultz: Mayor, thank you for the philosophical question. I have been in the
development business for 24 years now, either as an engineer or a planner, a
construction manager, whatever you want to call me in a couple of different states, most
of it being here in the last 17 years and so you see this growth, you live it, you breathe
it, you kind of lose sight of doing anything different and it has been, essentially,
obviously, a high growth area, except for 2008 through 2012 when there was slow
growth. Yeah. This -- Meridian is the center of a seven -- almost 700,000 population
would say right now. We are at the center of it and it's going to grow. We have
projected that, ACHD capital improvement plan has projected on that. The schools are
trying since the beginning of time, like they always have of always going out and
passing these bonds as the growth comes and -- it's kind of the way we do things and --
but as far as taking away future work, if -- if it was desired to be offices -- offices would
have went through 12 years ago on this, probably.
De Weerd: We know that rooftops come first.
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Schultz: And there is still a lot vacant out there. But there is -- we have got a Ten Mile
interchange now, thank you, Mayor, for getting that approved and we have got that and,
you know, McDermott will come next and there is a lot of good office and work spaces
and we felt that this one was not ideal from a commercial standpoint, being a quarter
mile back from Eagle, it is not ideal, you don't have good visibility. So, it would be more
office and there is a lot of office out there and some is vacant, some it's not and some
that's built and some that's not. So, I don't think we are -- we are taking away anything,
because it's getting replaced as other areas grow as well and so I don't think we should
be -- I don't know. I just don't see it as damaging on this ten acres to the office supply
market in Meridian.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions from Council? Okay. Thank you.
Schultz: Thanks, Mayor.
De Weerd: The applicant always gets the last word. Council, any further questions for
the applicant, any of those that testified, or staff?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I -- you know, I realize that traffic is an issue, that traffic is an issue on every
street in Meridian. I mean my street -- every street I drive on it's -- it's gotten horrible
and I wish there was something we could do about that. But my -- I think the biggest
problem that I have with this that's holding me on the fence is the multiple owners. I
realize there -- there will be an agreement in place and I'd like to check in with
Lieutenant Stokes, because from memory those are some of the times that we have
had -- or the areas where we have had the biggest issues are apartment buildings with
multiple owners tenants. Lieutenant Stokes, can you weigh in on that, please?
Stokes: Sure. Let me see if I can make -- Madam Mayor, Council Member, ownership
we -- I don't know if ownership has anything to do with it. What we see is how an
apartment complex is managed, because I don't know -- a lot of them are owned by a
lot of different people or maybe one person, but they all have somebody running them
for them mostly. So, that's really the key for us is how that's done.
Milam: Thank you.
Stokes: I hope that helps.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
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Bernt: I have a question for the applicant. You're not off the hook yet, Matt. Sorry,
buddy. Question. So, in response to Lieutenant Stokes' comment and also the
question that was proposed by Council Member Milam, can you elaborate on, you
know, what type of management system is going to be in place to manager these
different buildings that may or may not be under different ownerships?
Schultz: Mayor, Councilman Bernt, the best ones we can find.
Bernt: I don't think that was too philosophical, Matt. I don't think that was too deep.
Schultz: I understand. But, like I said earlier, I mean these -- this -- this is -- this is
serious business we are talking about here managing these things for -- for a lot of
different reasons, you know, just managing how people use the pool and trespass and
how things get repaired and -- you know, every ten years or five years whatever the
annual maintenance is and taking care of landscaping and evicting renters potentially
and putting in new buyers and that cycle we have to try to maintain, you know,
hopefully, 95 plus occupancy is the goal. So, no, we -- I don't know how to explain it,
but we -- just like we search all of our consultants, we search out the best ones and say,
hey, charge for your services and let's make sure this thing stays top notch and I'm not
lying, that's just what we do, you know.
Bernt: I guess my -- Madam Mayor, follow up. My -- I guess my question was is it
going to be one owner -- ownership -- or, excuse me, not ownership, but one
management company managing the entire thing?
Schultz: Absolutely, Mayor. That's -- Councilman Bernt. That's the only way to do it
and that's the only way we would have it. There is no way as a -- the builder of this --
and he is going to build these buildings. I mean Mr. McMaster is going to build it. I
mean we are not just building lots and having, you know various builders -- various
builders build these to a certain specification, these are going to be built, owned, and
potentially maybe some sold, maybe not, but we definitely, for everybody's interest have
these managed by one sole company over the whole thing in perpetuity, you know, until
-- I don't know what else would happen. But they are just going to keep on going until --
forever.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, question for our attorney. Given that it's not an annexation
request, but that it's a conditional use permit and a preliminary plat before us, can we
legally consider that there may be possible owners as a reason for rejection?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member, if you go to the code
under your findings for the CUP, you can make findings with regard to the design,
construction, operation and maintenance, whether they are compatible with other uses
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in the general neighborhood and the existing and intended character of the general
vicinity -- vicinity and that such use will not adversely change the essential character to
the same area. That's a specific finding that you can make on one way or the other, I'm
not saying how you make it, but I think that's what you're getting at and while I have got
the floor, with regard to the condition on the -- in the staff report on this maintenance
agreement, you can add additional things like to provide for consistency of maintenance
and assessment of fees and, you know, to beef that up and even require that the Legal
Department review it, so that it will be consistent with your intentions, your findings.
That's another thing that -- that you have in front of you as a tool, whether you choose to
approve or deny it tonight. Is that helpful?
Palmer: Thanks.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Matt, so the individual lots could potential -- or buildings could be
potentially sold. Does the current owner maintain the clubhouse or does that become
fractional? What's the -- I guess what I'm trying to get at is what's the commitment
should the owner sell all of the residential buildings, the buy -in there to maintain this?
Schultz: Mayor and Councilman Roberts, thank you for that question. So, all the
common areas -- everything outside of the building, essentially, is common area to be
taken care of and maintained by the owners association -- I almost said homeowners,
but it's not homes. But they are -- and the clubhouse falls under that jurisdiction of
being on a common lot that's owned by all -- everybody and that could be the one owner
that owns it all or several. I equate this somewhat to a four-plex project. These are
eight-plexes, but I think every four-plex project I have seen has been individually owned,
not necessarily all owned by separate owners. I have seen some were half that's
owned by one and, then, individuals own the rest and he's the majority, he makes sure
everything gets done and -- but that's -- these are eight-plexes, instead of fours, but we
do a lot of -- I don't -- we, but -- not me, but other people have done a lot of fourplexes.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Schultz: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council?
Schultz: Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you. Uh-huh.
McMaster: Doug McMaster. 905 Sherington, Eagle, Idaho.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
McMaster: To answer the more than one ownership thing, we are doing this -- and a
couple of projects I'm involved in, one is called Brassy Cove in Nampa, Idaho. There
are 64 four clusters in there. Me and a partner own 13 and somebody else owns the
rest of them. We done this with a set of covenants and a management fee. At this time
Park Place Management manages that for us. All the maintenance is done. My rent's
the same as your rent, so I can't let my brother-in-law in for 350 if the going rate is 500.
It seems to work extremely well. The intent, of course, is to own this. It's going to be
financed and built in one fell swoop, unless I decide to phase it. That is what the
platting is for. The construction loan and things like that is for the entire project. And if
can swallow it, I intend on keeping it and passing it on to grandkids. I don't know if that
helps, but I have been involved in these with multiple owners and as the officer said,
most of what happens at an apartment complex is whose is managing it and I find on
the bigger units like this, if I don't try to do it myself and we hire somebody, then, you
have consistency across the board.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McMasters: Thank you for your --
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I think I saw Justin here and I was just wondering if he could shed any
more light for us on the lighting of East Copperpoint Way and if potentially parking
would be allowed.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lucas: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. For the record, my
name is Justin Lucas. Business address is 3775 Adams Street in Garden City, Idaho,
and I represent the Ada County Highway District. I reviewed the staff report and our
typical collector section, as described in the staff report, does not include parking.
There is various reasons for that. One of which is typically our collector sections have
bike lanes on them and bike lanes that are not adjacent to parking are a little bit more
advantageous to the cyclist. So, the current staff report, as approved by ACHD, does
not include parking on that roadway.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other questions for Justin while we have him here?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor. Justin, I ask you, because I have heard you say it in the past
and it seems like we always have a new audience, so it's good to hear the science
behind it and there was some comment from the applicant about what types of
developments can cause what types of traffic and understanding neither of us are traffic
engineers, but can you shed some light on the science behind what -- and maybe what
might be spread out and what might be a.m., p.m., peak issues and whatnot?
Lucas: Yeah. The -- the methodologies used in traffic impact studies are based on
national standards and nationally recognized manuals that are used by traffic engineers
that produce traffic studies to predict how many trips there will be and where those trips
will go. More than that I'm not going to go into it in much detail, because, first of all,
am not one of those traffic engineers who does that for a living. I work with a lot of them
and the details associated with that analysis are found in the staff reports that we
provide to you that are reviewed by ACHD staff and are provided to you for your use. If
there are roadways that are projected to be beyond thresholds and capacities that are
established by ACHD policy, those are highlighted within those reports that come to
you. I'm -- as I reviewed this report I did not see any thresholds or capacities that were
projected to be exceeded with the -- through this development. There are -- it's -- when
it comes to the difference between office and residential and things like that, it is -- it's
so specific, depending on the type of business and use. There may be some office
complexes or buildings based on the business that they have that generate fewer trips
than a multi -family residential. There may be some office buildings, depending on the
businesses that they have, that generate more. The problem with office buildings is you
can have changing tenants that significantly change the trips. Significantly. And so
can't stand here today and ever tell you that this -- such and such office building is
always going to do this, because it could change. We have had manufacturing facilities
in the City of Meridian that have turned into school district offices and you can -- and
high schools. You can imagine the differences that those types of uses have, but there
-- it was a single original building. So, there is a lot of detail and nuance that goes into
that and also a lot of change that occurs over time depending on the uses.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Thank you, Justin. Since the applicant
always has the final word, any -- okay. Would the Council like any further information?
If not, would you like to close this public hearing? Or have remarks first?
Milam: Madam Mayor, maybe we should have a discussion first, just in case --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I'm sorry. While everyone else is thinking -- but I want to thank the public for
coming and providing testimony. I think this Council knows that I have long been a big
proponent of multi -family in our community. I think that we need diverse housing of all
different shapes and sizes in our community, so anyone can live here and call Meridian
home. There is some concerns about how the building looks. I'm not overly concerned
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with that. It's not my cup of tea, but it took my wife and I two and a half years to find a
house, because we couldn't find a style that we both agreed on on options. My biggest
challenge with this particular piece is its location. I like multi -family on the corner of
collectors, on the corner of arterials, where it's easy for traffic to get in and out and I
think this is a really great project. It's not about if I like it or not, it's about does it meet
our standards to issue a conditional use. I'm really conflicted, because I -- while I think
the project would work on a lot of other corners throughout our community -- and you
see projects like it in Meridian -- I just struggle to see if this particular project in that
particular location is a right fit.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor -- and to Councilman Cavener's point, I -- I look at it zoomed out
of the property and can see because of the connections out to the arterials that this
makes sense to me. The nontraffic lighted direct west route -- or it can go north almost
straight out to a traffic light -- if you can go north, then, you can kind of weave back
down to a traffic light if you want to turn left on Eagle Road and are worried about being
able to turn left there. There is multiple ways out to arterials that are almost straight out
the direction that the majority of people I would assume would go. I don't know why
there would be a mass flow of people wanting to go south to, then, be able to go north,
when there is easy access to go north and make it west with the traffic signals. I love it.
It looks like they planned on marketing these to the two door blue sports car crowd, that
all back into their spots. I'm sorry. Strange commentary on the little things I notice, but
to me -- I mean I think about, you know, Ten Mile was brought up. Ten Mile is a very
intense, dense office use plan that we have approved four story apartment buildings for,
with the idea that the types of people that will be working in those buildings are the ones
who are going to be looking to live as close as possible to them and in apartments. I
look at Citi, you know, three story call center and I mean I -- I would venture to say that
the people working there would be far more likely to live in this development than the
neighbors to the south. I'm sure that there is some in there that do, but I mean to me it
fits and to me it fits the -- the plan that we are going with with Ten Mile and other areas
and trying to put people close to the types of jobs that they are going to be filling, so
they can live there, and, hopefully, reduce traffic and, again, with the simple access to
major arterial roads and super quick access to the freeway, this is a go for me.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I agree with Councilman Palmer. One of the things I'm working on a
workforce development program last year, I heard a lot from millennials and the 20-30
group that were looking to be more flexible and one of the things that we were lacking
was apartments near where they could work and so I think this really does fit in well with
the example of city and places -- Power Engineers in that area growing like mad and we
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have got, you know, a generation that doesn't want to be homeowners, but they want a
nice place to live and I think in that perspective this fits really well.
De Weerd: I guess as Meridian continues to grow and struggles with where things
should go, I hate to see the loss of office and the commercial. We have many other
opportunities for developments like this and I don't have a problem with how this
development looks, I would add my comments to Mr. Cavener's and is this the right spot
for it. I do think Mr. Brown brought up a great comment that higher density next to
employment centers is a good thing. It wasn't too long ago that Movado was approved
with 430 single family houses and I don't recall what the apartment numbers were, but
there is a boatload of apartments to the east of this that will support this employment
center and whatever happens across the street to Overland. I -- I would hesitate to lose
the employment opportunities in this area and I do think that rooftops do come before
certain employment as well, so you can write the -- you can walk the fence on this, it
just is not -- there is nothing really compelling enough that says, yeah, this is the right
project. So, just my thoughts. I know I don't vote unless it ties.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I -- I seem to agree with you and Councilman Cavener in regard to the location.
I have no issues with how it looks. I think that the applicant did a great job with -- I sort
of like that, you know, more modern style. I think it's 2018. 1 think it looks great. The
look is fantastic. I'm a little bit concerned with the parking spaces, but I'm not enough
concerned that, you know, Mr. Schultz couldn't do anything -- do something about it.
think that would be real easy for him to do. My only concern is how close it is to
Movado and how many, you know, apartment complexes -- you know, apartment units
are going to be in Movado and this is going to add to that and so -- and that's where I'm
in agreement with the Mayor and that's -- that's where I feel conflicted at the moment.
Great location. Or, excuse me, great -- great application -- great development, great
outlook, everything is great with the exception of where it -- where it's at. That's where I
struggle.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Amongst all the input that we get on this -- and we -- we look at some of the
origin of this property and it's the fact that it had been annexed previously and it's zoned
C -G, somewhat -- some sideboards on the role of the Council and Mayor to control
some of the land use and what this property can be. It is C -G. It could be three --
multiple story commercial office buildings, perhaps more intense use or more
unpleasant as a transition from the residences to the south. Like Councilman Cavener
said, I do appreciate the public input. I think it is very helpful and has improved the
project from parking to orientation to fencing and -- and appreciate the applicant's
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concessions on those points to try and make it better. Amongst the information that we
have when we review prior to tonight and has been referenced, talking about the roads,
the ACHD commission, the December 11 staff report makes reference to their review
and their conclusions, not only from the traffic study that was provided by the applicant,
but their staff's own review as to the roadway impact and the improvements required
and ACHD has placed a number of roadway improvements that the -- the traffic study
measurements say are necessary in relation to the traffic that's going to be generated
by this project. Anything more than zero is too much. It's just -- it is traffic is extremely
difficult. But we rely on agencies, such as ACHD and their professional expertise, along
with the transportation study, to try and help us make a decision that -- that traffic will be
addressed in an objectively consistent way with this project like others and ACHD did
that in December and provided us their -- their position on that. Also in the materials,
which is, additionally, helpful for all of us, is COMPASS's review of this project and
Communities In Motion, one of the regional planning tools that we all have the benefit of
relying on, provides some input -- provided some information to all of us about -- I think
similar to what Mr. Brown had shared with -- is this an appropriate location for the
project and have we planned for a multi -use project adjacent to these employment
centers and the COMPASS -- the Communities In Motion data that was provided to us
doesn't vote or gives us an up or down, but it provides some statistics which are -- that
speak to supporting this project. Some of the data -- for example, it references housing
available within one mile, 2,450 homes, and jobs within that one mile 5,827 and, then, it
speaks to try to have a good job to housing balance, a ratio between one and 1.5 to
reduce traffic congestion and in layman's terms to me I think I read that to try and
capture that idea of putting those diverse housing opportunities near where all these
jobs are and trying to get people off the roads as much as possible and that this project
is one of the types of projects that would support that. The police and fire are -- are
adequately near to serve this and the public transportation is -- is lacking, but it's lacking
throughout the entire community. So, both ACHD and COMPASS I think are a couple
of additional tools that support this project in light of the additional improvements that
have been made today. So, the ability to access the collectors that the traffic study
makes reference, that the majority of that traffic, from the traffic study, will funnel to the
-- or is intended to funnel to the west and to the north, as Councilman Palmer had
referenced. The objective data supports that as well. So, it is a difficult decision, but
there is a lot of data that does support approving this project as presented with the
additional improvements I will say that the applicants had stated. One -- one thing that
if this were to go forward that has come up is to add to that one -- that condition that
speaks to the common collective property manager maintenance of this project. I would
-- I would throw out that -- that those legal documents not only be submitted to, but be
approved by our legal prior to that certificate of occupancy, so it's not merely that they
are provided, but you have got an opportunity to comment and ensure that some of the
remarks made by the public and the Council tonight are captured in those, which it
sounds like it's the applicants intent anyway. That would probably include that
professional management company to facilitate the management as well. So, if this
were to go forward that would be appropriate to include in that condition 1.2.1.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Ms. Milam.
Milam: Man, I'm going back and forth on this like a teeter totter. Is there any way --
don't know if this is staff or nobody could answer -- to find out who owns the property
directly to the north of this. I -- you know, we do need living wage jobs in Meridian, we
need more jobs that everybody isn't commuting downtown Boise, it just is another traffic
problem. So, I don't -- you know, I would hate to take the last piece available of that
Silverstone area for office buildings -- though I'm not sure that all of you who came here
tonight opposing this would really rather have three story office buildings with thousands
of people going to work every day instead. So, hopefully, you have thought that
through. I do like how the applicant has made these low profile, two story buildings as
not to interfere with the view and move them so they are not -- the windows aren't
overhanging into the neighbor's yards. It's a good project. I am really just kind of stuck
on the -- there aren't a lot of -- we don't have a whole lot of locations for big office
buildings. It's definitely not a retail location and we can't make the library buy this
property and put a library there. That's not our jurisdiction and I don't know that it would
be the proper location for them, too, as nice and convenient as it would be for all of you,
just not sure -- anyway, so if we get anything on that. There is one more piece --
Beach: Council Woman Milam, the property to the north of this is owned by the --
county records say it's Citicorp Credit Services, Incorporated, out of New York, so --
Milam: Mr. President?
Borton: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I don't know if there is a gentleman -- there is a gentleman raising his hand over
there and I'm not sure if he's wanting to comment -- make a comment about the
application or about what I just asked, so --
Borton: Okay.
Milam: Thank you.
Borton: I was going to ask you to come up, but it doesn't sound like -- it sounds like you
are available if there were to be questions. Fair enough. Any other questions from
Council or comments?
Palmer: Mr. President?
Borton: Councilman Palmer.
Palmer: I don't know if you want to make a motion while you're chairing or not, but I will
go ahead and try this. I move we close the public hearing on H-2017-0151.
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Little Roberts: Second.
Borton: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing on Item H-107-0151.
All those in favor say aye. Hearing is closed.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Palmer: Mr. President?
Borton: Councilman Palmer.
Palmer: Mr. President, I move that we approve H-2017-0151 requiring no less than 258
parking spaces and that the maintenance, CC&Rs, plans, be submitted and reviewed
for approval by Meridian city Legal Department. Oh. And -- a long pause in my motion.
And that a minimum six foot high fence be constructed on the west side of the property
without -- I'm not sure what the language is -- you can't see through it.
Milam: Vinyl.
Palmer: Period.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It sounds like you have a motion and a second to approve. Okay.
Any discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Was there a mention of the one management company in there -- in that
motion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor, is that something that we can require? We said that was our
intention, but I don't -- is it something we can require on a CUP?
Baird: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, if you believe
that that's required as a condition to have the proper maintenance, so it doesn't
negatively affect the other properties in the area, then, yes, I think you can ask for that.
I have -- I have heard in part of your motion to make it consistent with the other
testimony that the buildings be maintained, that there be penalties for nonperformance,
so that the management company would fix things and assess against the properties.
We would be looking for that kind of thing is what I'm hearing with your motion. But if it
is your intention to ask for a single management company, then, I would ask that you
include that specifically in your motion.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I think we are -- I think we are pushing it as we are and so I think with Legal
reviewing those plans, that they will ensure that the intent of the discussion is covered
with regard to maintenance and enforcement thereof, without us having to risk polling
that a finding, so that it would only be covered with one.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk,
will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, nay; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
Timberline
Located
D. Public Hearing Continued from February 27, 2018 for
Subdivision (H-2017-0140) by Bailey Investments, LLC,
at 655 and 735 West Victory Road
1. Request: Preliminary Plat Consisting of 58 Building Lots and
7 Common Lots on 17.3 Acres of Land in the R-8 Zoning
District
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for joining us. Okay. I will go ahead and open the public
hearing on Item 9-D, which is a public hearing continued from February 27th for H-
2017-0140. 1 will open this with staff comments.
Beach: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so as was mentioned this application
was before you --
De Weerd: Maybe we will just take a pause, Josh, just --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: While they are making their way out, is there going to be an issue on the last
one about the fact that we didn't mention tiling the canal?
De Weerd: Yeah. Because that wasn't part of any comments. Mr. Baird?
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Baird: I looked at the condition in the staff report, but you will have to correct me if I'm
wrong, but the way I'm reading this is the Ridenbaugh Canal is not titled anywhere,
except maybe along the freeway a little bit. If you had been wanting to require it, I
would have heard you talking about it. I think it can be implied in your decision that they
are going to have a fence that protects it and it will be in its condition, it will not be a
water amenity associated with the apartments.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And there is probably somewhere in there that it would fit that it's in the desire
for it to be consistent with things that we have done in the past, that literally I don't think
we would ever require Ridenbaugh -- Ridenbaugh to --
De Weerd: No. I don't even think you could. So, I think you're good.
Baird: And I just wanted to see if Josh is shaking his head that that's -- that's the
intention of the way the staff report was written and if you wanted something different
you would have specified it.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you for that clarification, though. Thank you, Josh. You can
go ahead.
Beach: So, this application was before you last week and instead of going through the
entire project again, I think the main points that you wanted to bring up -- you wanted to
see some revisions in addition to open space and specifically Council Woman Milam
asked for an additional amenity and specifically a tot lot or a recreation area for children.
So, in -- in that regard I did receive some information from the applicant. The slide here
indicates the areas that the applicant has modified the plat. So, again, north is to the
left. They have removed a buildable lot in this location here and created that as part of
the larger open space area. With that, in order to not lose a buildable lot for the project,
the applicant has reduced this -- what would have been an overall -- if you're following
my mouse here -- an overall larger open space section and added a buildable lot and
reduced that common area with a buildable lot. So, the previous project met the
standard ten percent. The applicant is coming before you tonight with an additional .45
percent open space.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council? Okay. Is the applicant here? Good evening.
Riley: Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. Penelope Riley. Post Office Box
405, Boise, Idaho. 83701.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Riley: You bet. I'm just going to real briefly go over the -- the comments relative to our
discussion last week. As Josh indicated, we did add some open space and the new
common lot is adjacent to the previously proposed common lot at the southeast corner.
A tot lot will be added to this area in cooperation with the City Council's preferences.
So, with this additional common lot it will be very visible to see all the way back into the
back corner of that -- the previously proposed common lot, plus the tot lot will be very
visible, which is always a good thing. I do want to point out that the common lot area in
phase one will now be 50,353 square feet. So, with this additional common lot, if we
just subtract the roads out of phase one we have a 19 percent common area. If you just
take the net area of phase one, based on the final plat, we will have a 15 percent
common lot area in phase one of the subdivision. As you know, the subject site is
zoned R-8, which allows a minimum lot size of 4,000 square feet. There are no lots in
phase one that are less than 6,000 square feet in size and 11 of the lots are greater
than 10,000 -- 10,000 or greater square feet. So, the site is being developed at a
standard that appears to be less than actually an R-4, even though we are zoned an R-
8. The development agreement that we discussed previously provided two options.
One of them was to create a landscape buffer along the boundary between Kentucky
Ridge Estates and the subject site. The developer selected -- or decided to do the
10,000 square foot lots instead of the landscape buffer because he felt that it would be
a better option for Kentucky Ridge. So, just to recap. Some of our lots are two and a
half times the size that's required for an R-8 development. Just an interesting note, the
subdivision is going to be open to the smaller local builders, so we are looking forward
to having more variety of builder makeup in the subdivision, which is a good thing we
think. It increases the competition and get a better product that way. I provided Josh
with another illustration, which shows the relative elevations of Mr. Tillman's house, as
opposed to the lots next to them. Unfortunately, I think I sent up an earlier iteration of
that illustration and Josh is looking for it right now I think. We can probably do without it,
though. Nice. Thank you, Josh. So, this shows a plan view and an elevation. The
later iteration the engineer actually got an elevation for the curb on -- on the streets and
so the net result is that there is going to be about 14 feet of difference between the
foundation for the Tillman's side and the foundation for the house that will be on the lot
below them, which we feel is a good difference. That's about a single story. So, there
shouldn't be any substantial impact to Mr. Tillman's view. Plus he will be able to see
between the houses. Those are such big lots. So, with that we have added to the
common area. We have added a tot lot. We have given you some additional
information on the elevation difference between the lots in Kentucky Ridge and the
subject site. Hopefully, we listened well and provided you with what you were looking
for. The developer and the engineer are both present this evening and I would be
happy to answer any questions you have.
De Weerd: I think you took excellent notes.
Riley: Thank you, ma'am.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
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Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Not a question, but a comment. Thank you so much. I mean you did -- I mean
exactly what -- you know, what we asked you to do. So, thank you so much for listening
and taking that into consideration.
Riley: You're welcome. It was our pleasure.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from the Council. Thank you.
Riley: Thank you, ma'am.
De Weerd: Is -- oh.
Coles: There were no sign-ups.
De Weerd: Is there anyone who wishes to testify? Yes, ma'am. Good evening.
McKay: Good evening. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Becky McKay with
Engineering Solutions. Business address 1029 North Rosario in Meridian. I just want
to go on the record for my client Lee Centers, who has the Biltmore, Gray Cliff, and
Brundage Estates projects to the south of this subject property. When we developed
Biltmore, Mr. Hansen's property, which is the subject property that's being developed
and before you this evening, was connected to the irrigation pump station on Mr.
Center's property and so we did not want to cut off the irrigation, so we put in a gravity
feed pipe along our north boundary that is for the sole purpose of providing irrigation
water to this property. So, Mr. Centers asked that I go on the record, because that --
they need to, obviously, maintain that feed, since it is for their sole benefit and he just
wanted to make sure they coordinate with us and I talked to their engineer and we will
provide them the as builts on that. We just wanted to make sure that's on the record,
because that -- that will be their source of water. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further testimony? Thank you. Council, any further
questions for the applicant or for staff? Ms. Riley, do you have any further comment?
Thank you. Okay. If there is nothing further, I would entertain a motion to close.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I move that we closed the public hearing on -- well, sorry, I lost my notes
here. H-2017-0140.
Palmer: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I move that we approve -- sorry. I'm struggling with new glasses here. I
move that we approve the -- plat -- is that the term? Approve 101 -- 2017-0140 with
staff comments and including that the gravity irrigation system needs to be maintained
within this group, if that's the appropriate term.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. And the motion is regarding the plat that
was revised and in front of you tonight.
Little Roberts: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? Okay. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Public Hearing for Hickory Apartments (H-2017-0165) by
Midway Investments, LLC Located at 1789 North Hickory Way
1. Request: A Rezone of 2.11 Acres of Land from the L -O to
the R40 Zoning District
2. Request: A Conditional Use Permit for a Multi -Family
Development Consisting of 40 Dwelling Units on 1.97 Acres
of Land in the R-40 Zoning District
De Weerd: Item 9-E is a public hearing for H-2017-0165. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Beach: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Before you this
evening is a project for the Hickory Apartments. The site consists of approximately 1.97
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acres of land, which is zoned L -O, at 1789 North Hickory Way. The subject property
was originally annexed into the city in 1992 as Angel Park Subdivision. The
Comprehensive Plan and future land map designation for the property is commercial.
The applicant has applied to rezone 2.11 acres of land from the L -O zoning district to
the R-40 zoning district. Staff believes the proposed zoning designation is consistent
with the policies in the Comprehensive Plan. The applicant proposes to develop 40 new
multi -family dwellings and three buildings, two and three story structures on 1.97 acres
of land. The units will consist of one and two bedrooms, containing five to eight
hundred square feet for the one bedroom units and eight to twelve hundred square feet
for the two bedroom units. There were 20 one bedroom and 20 two bedroom units.
The applicant is proposing a play structure, a plaza, and a covered sitting area as
amenities for the subdivision. The applicant is required to comply with the specific use
standards set forth in the UDC. The total number of parking spaces required for the
overall development is 70. The applicant has proposed to provide 76 parking spaces,
which meets the requirements of the UDC. The applicant is also proposing 40 covered
stalls for the development, which also meets the requirements of the UDC. Parking lot
landscaping is required to be provided in accord with the standards as set forth in the
UDC. Parking could be increased either by the installation of more parking stalls or by
eliminating units. Staff is of the opinion that the development should reduce the number
of units to 36 in order to provide sufficient parking for the development. An additional
eight parking stalls will help lessen the concern about lack of parking in the surrounding
area. A five foot wide detached sidewalk along North Hickory Way -- exists along North
Hickory Way. Excuse me. Additionally, all sidewalks around buildings shall be a
minimum of five feet in width. The applicant is proposing one access from North
Hickory Way for the development. As previously mentioned, the development has
cross -access to the adjacent commercial development to the south and that
development has connectivity to Fairview Avenue. One trash enclosure is depicted on
the site. The enclosure and location should be approved by the representative of
Republic Services. Landscape plan here indicates a fenced buffer, as well as additional
planting material along the single family homes to the northwest. The Commission did
recommend denial of the project. Summary of that hearing is as follows: The applicant
Becky McKay -- the applicant's representative was in favor. In opposition where Scott
Tiffany, Pete Krueger, Wally Kimball, Don Bergheim, Shirley Moon, Bagden
Martsenyuk, Mark Seneac, Craig Randall, Paloma Aderman, Eric Buehler, Britany
Buehler, Scott Ingram, Kay McDonald, Bill Eames, Douglas Gregory, Claire Balkoski,
John Anderson, John Kenny, Amelia Eames, Katie McCarney, and Chris Middleton.
Those same folks commented. Written testimony was received by Shirley Moon,
Wallace Kimball, and Jesse Vycital. I was the staff that presented the application.
There were no other staff that made comments. Summary of the discussion by the
Commission were the appropriateness and the question as to whether the project
provided the necessary transition to the single family residences. Did not make any
changes to the staff's recommendation. There are no outstanding issues for Council
and did not receive any written testimony since the Planning and Zoning Commission.
Staff will stand for any questions you have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions? Okay. Is the applicant here?
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McKay: Thank you, Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Good evening.
McKay: -- Members of the Council. Becky McKay. Engineering Solutions. Business
address 1029 North Rosario. I'm here representing Midway Investments, LLC. Mr.
Centers is my client on this particular project. If Josh could queue up my PowerPoint.
What's before you this evening is a rezone application for 2.11 acres of land from L -O to
R-40, with a conditional use permit for 40 dwelling units. Multi -family. We had two
meetings -- pre -application meetings with the staff on this particular project. This
property was zoned L -O 26 years ago and has been vacant. It was plotted 15 years
ago and remains vacant. And it's owned by Louie Mallane, who owns Louie's
Restaurant and it's -- this particular lot is located just north of Louie's Restaurant. So,
as you can see here, this is the subject property. Hickory Way is a collector roadway.
There is a signalized intersection here at Fairview Avenue. This lot that's before you
this evening is located right here. There is an existing curb cut here and a driveway that
comes down. This is an office building. A mortgage company. And, then, there is
cross -access that comes down to Fairview and, then, also comes across. This is D.L.
Evans Bank. Comes across and intersects with Hickory Way at this location. This is
Louie's Restaurant and, then, this is a retail building located here. You can see -- I want
to kind of give you a perspective of this is -- this is the subject property looking
northeast. The office. The D.L. Evans Bank. Looking southwest. To the northwest is
Dove Meadows Subdivision. There are three single family lots that abut us. When the
commercial development went in for Louie's Restaurant, the Council at that time had
asked Mr. Mallane to construct a six foot masonry wall along the northwest boundary,
separating the Dove Meadows Subdivision from his property. This wall was offset from
the property boundary south approximately seven feet. You can see the wall here. This
is the property boundary and there you can see the -- the homes that adjoin us. This is
a -- a retail building that's located just south -- kind of southwest of the subject
property. There was a tanning business and there has been multiple businesses in
there over the past few years. To the east of us is the large Capital Christian church
complex and that's on the other side just east of Hickory Way. Then as you can see
here the subject property here and there is Louie's Restaurant. So, we are directly
behind Louie's Restaurant. This kind of gives you an aerial rendering of the site. One
of the things that we talked about with the staff at the pre -application conference was
initially they wanted us to ask for a C -G and, then, go with the conditional use, then, the
staff changed their mind and said, no, we think the R-40 is more appropriate. On your
Comprehensive Plan this area is designated commercial and, then, the area just to the
east of us is designated mixed use regional. So, one of the things that we did was --
we, obviously, wanted to provide transitioning. So, these are two story buildings. There
are eight units within each building. I worked with the architect, so that they kind
articulated these buildings, so that, you know, the -- as far as the exposure to the single
family it would be the end of this building. This particular building we tried to kind of
maneuver it around, but we have an existing 20 foot landscape buffer that's along
Hickory Way and, then, there is an existing 25 foot landscape easement along the north
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boundary and as you can see it is our intent to maintain the wall, add onto it, kind of
taper down on each end, put some color to it and, then, plant heavy trees in that seven
feet with drip line and, then, perma bark. Then the other thing that we did was our
central amenity here with the playground and the picnic shelter, we put that next to the
single family. We have a plaza area located right here and, then, the three story
building, which has 24 units, there are 20 one bedroom and 20 two bedroom units within
this project -- is located directly behind Louie's and, then, here you can see the office.
As far as the open space is concerned, we are required 10,000 square feet of open
space. We are -- we are providing 20,166 square feet, which is basically 23.35 percent
open space. And along with our amenities, like I said, there is a plaza sitting city area,
covered picnic area, a central open space, playground equipment, and, then, our 20
foot buffer adjacent to Hickory Way and 25 foot buffer and six foot high block wall
adjoining Dove Meadows. This is kind of the plaza area. The architect did a really nice
rendering here showing that there will be seating. They have got kind of a fire pit. They
have some umbrellas. It's kind of a gathering place, kind of a hardscape area that's
very popular in multi -family projects nowadays. Here is what -- you can kind of see in
this rendering what the buildings will look like. These are the -- this is the two story.
Here is the playground equipment and, then, just over here to the west would be the
covered picnic area, which would be near, so that the parents could sit in the shade and
watch the kids play and, then, you can see the three story structure that's located just to
the south. This kind of gives you a perspective of the -- the development, kind of an
overall perspective. This existing drive is already installed. Our parking would be
coming off an existing drive. There is also an existing drive that's in Louie's that we loop
through, so we have loop through to meet all fire department requirements as far as two
points of ingress and egress. In meeting with your staff there is adequate sewer and
water capacity. There is water stubbed out of Hickory and, then, there are sewer and
water easements that run through this property. As far as fire flow for these buildings,
we were told that that should be no problem. This kind of gives you an elevation of the
two story units. These two story units will have 745 square feet for the one bedroom
and 954 square feet for the two bedroom. They will all have decks and patios that are
approximately 80 square feet in compliance with your ordinance. This is -- the three
story building same thing. It's -- it's going to accept the single -- or the one bedroom
units will be about 703 square feet. The two bedroom units are 954 square feet. They
will also have decks and patios that are 80 square feet. One of the things that was
brought up at the Planning and Zoning Commission -- and it was kind of -- it was kind of
difficult for me to do my presentation that evening, because the PowerPoint board was
down, so we couldn't point to anything and it made it really difficult to kind of -- I think
give the Planning and Zoning Commission a good feel for this particular project. So, we
made some slides showing access, because one of the things was -- that was brought
up was traffic and so here -- this is the existing approach across from Solterra, but,
then, we have cross -access and a direct curb cut out to Fairview. Then there is cross -
access by D.L. Evans Bank, which comes out to Hickory Way here and, then, down to a
signalized intersection. So, we have multiple points of ingress and egress and as far as
being, you know, kind of a green project, the fact that we are able to utilize these
existing driveways, you know, it, obviously, minimized the amount of asphalt required
for this particular project. But as you can see, this site is hidden behind both this retail
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building and Louie's. As far as the traffic, Fairview Avenue is designated a principal
arterial. It has a level of service better than E. Hickory Way is a collector. It has a level
of service better than D. The Hickory Apartments as far as the vehicles per hour, there
are currently 243 vehicles per hour on Hickory. We will add 19, which would be 7.8 of
the 243. So, as far as -- if I add the capacity that's being already taken up and utilized
and including my build out, there -- there are 61 percent of that capacity is used. Ada
County Highway District in their recommendations they recommended approval. They
indicated that Hickory Way is at an acceptable level of service and has a capacity of
427 vehicle trips per hour. So, there is still 39 percent capacity remaining. This is kind
of the last parcel there on Hickory Way that's vacant. This kind of shows you there is
the existing curb cut. Here is the landscaping. We will be protecting all of the
landscaping that is along Hickory Way and maintaining that 20 feet. This is the wall
right now. What we are seeing is there are lawn droppings and weeds that are here.
We are going to, obviously, come through and plant a lot of trees along this seven feet
here to create additional buffering and, then, like I said, I incorporated that wall into our
landscaping. This gives you kind of a perspective of that proposed screening treatment
that would be adjacent to Dove Meadows and, then, just kind of, like I said, gives you
that aerial rendering. As far as the parking lot for Louie's, we will be joining that, but we
will have 12 feet of landscaping here and we have significant separation from the
corners of our building over to this house over here -- is a significant distance. I think it
was like 65 feet. Over here there is a 15 foot setback and a 25 foot setback for our
building. One of the things that -- that the Commission struggled with was, obviously,
the R-40 zone. Now, one of the things I talked about with the staff was, you know,
really we only need an R-15 for the two story buildings. So, we could do a layered
zoning. That is possible if that's more palatable. Now, up here in Packard Estates -- or
Dove Meadows here, you have R-8 and the Solterra project is R-15. We have R-8. We
could do an R-15 there. We are surrounded by C -G. If I go back to -- if I go back to the
overall zoning in this area you can see that it is predominantly commercial. This is
RUT, but it is designated commercial on your land use map for your Comprehensive
Plan. This particular project is just a little over 20 dwelling units per acre. The required
number of parking spaces for this project is 70. We have provided 76. The required
number of parking spaces for bicycles is four. We propose 12. So, we will triple that.
Obviously, the property is located within less than a mile and a half from your downtown
core. We have shopping. We have restaurants. We have the Yamaha dealership. We
have theaters. One of the things that we are looking at from a planning perspective is,
you know, with these in -fill parcels is trying to, obviously, get a mixture of uses. Your
Comprehensive Plan promotes that. Fairview Avenue is a mobility corridor. Right now,
you know, we are having difficulty with the young people and the working professionals
finding affordable rental properties. Now, this particular project is going to be luxury
apartments. There is going to be 40 units. I have done multiple small projects in
Meridian, like out at Settlers Park Apartments, Gramercy Pride Apartments. We -- we
do granite countertops. We do stainless steel. We do hardwood floors. And what we
find is those projects -- over 60 percent of the renters were 55 and above and they were
people who had lost a spouse and had to sell their home or decided that they wanted to
simplify their life and not take care of a yard. Over at Settlers Park we had significant
opposition from Cedar Springs and after it was built the residents told me that they were
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very, very pleased with it and some of them -- their elderly parents moved into our
luxury apartments next to Cedar Springs, so they could be near their -- their kids.
De Weerd: Becky, you need to wrap up.
McKay: I will wrap it up. This is a good project. It's a good fit. And I ask that the
Council, please, give it consideration and support it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for Becky at this point?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Just a clarification. It says in here there is a total of four bicycle parking
spaces, but you said there is actually 12?
McKay: We will provide 12, yes. Three times what the code requires.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
McKay: Now, Boise city has up'd their ordnance and they are now requiring one bike
space for every dwelling unit to promote bicycle transportation, because I just had a
project this size over in Boise off of Bogart. Just food for thought.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Because you said it, Becky, so you are using the term that no -- it's hard to find
affordable housing and, then, in the next sentence you said these are luxury
apartments. Are they affordable apartments or luxury apartments or affordable luxury?
McKay: Well, we anticipate that the prices for the single -- the one bedroom will be
around 950 and, then, the two bedroom will be -- it could be 1,250 -- you know, these --
these particular type units appeal to a different group. You know, there is a group that
wants to be in a 300 or a 400 unit apartment complex. These appeal to a different kind
of sector of the rental market. These are luxury, but even luxury prices are getting
jacked up just because of lack of supply and demand. I mean it's almost reached a
point now where you got to know somebody to find a rental in the valley. I had a staff
member that sold his home and he got a rental just because his daughter works for a
management company. Otherwise, he said I would have been out in the cold. So, you
know, we are -- we are trying the -- you know, private sector. I like these smaller
projects, because the impact is so much less and, like I said, it kind of adds that
component that we need in these areas where we have commercial office.
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Milam: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Becky, when you reference your parking number -- and, again, I'm trying to
pull this kind of in my head -- that business -- existing business has some current
parking, if I recall, off of that kind of common drive?
McKay: Yes, sir.
Cavener: When you submit your parking numbers is that including those existing spots
or in addition to?
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, no, the parking -- the parking numbers I
am giving you are the parking that we are constructing, which is this line of parking and,
then, everything that's internalized here. As far as any of the exterior parking here,
none of that is calculated into my percentages or my application. So, we have 76
spaces. Your code requires 70. So, my parking ratio is 1.90 per dwelling unit.
Cavener: Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Becky, maybe this is a question for your staff. Have we received any feedback
from local businesses in regard to the unique traffic flow through -- through their --
through their businesses?
Beach: To answer that question, aside from the individuals listed on those comments,
I'm not sure if they were associated with a specific business or not. That's not the initial
indication for any of those.
Bernt: Thank you, Josh. Becky, question for you. Have you reached out to the bank or
-- I'm sure you're not going to get anything back for Louie's and he wants to sell the
property -- I don't think he's going to be like I'm against -- but I mean like other
businesses, you know, their commercial space where it's sort of like a -- you know, right
in front, has there been any feedback from --
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, we -- we did hold our neighborhood meeting
at my office. We only had two people attend. The gentleman that owned the house
here in Dove Meadows and, then, the gentleman that owned the rental here. I did
receive a phone call after that neighborhood meeting from the gentleman that owns this
office building and he called and just asked some questions, said he couldn't attend the
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neighborhood meeting and I basically explained what we were doing and he said that
he had no objections. But I did not hear anything from D.L. Evans Bank. But the -- as
far as the CC&Rs and all of the documents, the recorded plat, all of that shows cross -
access between all these lots.
Bernt: Thank you for answering my question.
De Weerd: Having been out to Louie's, there is always a parking issue and so the dirt
that you will now occupy has been kind of an overflow. So, does that not concern you in
-- in terms of having parking for your residence that -- that are not the ones frequenting
the restaurant.
McKay: Madam Mayor, as far as -- you mean if some of the residents -- you mean the
Louie's patrons?
De Weerd: Well, yeah, the parking there is -- is atrocious.
McKay: Well, as far as our -- you know, our parking ratio, we have no three bedroom
units. We have 20 one bedroom and 20 two bedroom and, you know, you may get
some -- some parking along here from some of the Louie's, but, you know, they have
cross -access and cross -- you know, cross -parking. Now, as far as our site is
concerned, we will have restrictions that they have to park solely on our designated
spaces. We have had that discussion with Mr. Mallane.
De Weerd: Well, how will you monitor that? Is it permitted parking or -- or you get
towed?
McKay: Some of -- some of the developments we have they will go ahead and number
the spot and assign a numbered spot. Others they will just -- they will just put signage
for, you know, residents only, in order to preserve our parking. There is no parking
allowed on Hickory Way. It is a collector roadway.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Scott Tiffany signed against, wishing to provide
testimony.
De Weerd: You want to hand that to Mr. Clerk. Thank you. If you will, please, state
your name and address for the record.
Tiffany: Sure. Madam Mayor and Members of the City Council, my name is Scott
Tiffany. My address is 2726 North Lapis Avenue. I'm trying really hard to hunch down,
so I can get close to the microphone. I might have to get down on one knee. It will
wake me up and, I apologize, I'm a little slow tonight. It's way past my bedtime.
De Weerd: Well, we apologize as well.
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Tiffany: That's all right. It is what it is. I just want to cover a couple of points that I'm
sure you already know and, then, I want to speak from my heart to a point that really
matters more to me and I don't have to get into the increased in crime and decrease in
property values when you have congested areas like this coming together and I want to
say I have got nothing against apartments, I have lived in them. What I'm against is the
congestion up against where I live. I wanted to address traffic. The entrance that was
shown on Fairview Avenue, I don't know if all of you have driven that way through the
parking lots, but --
De Weerd: Sir -- yes. There you go.
Tiffany: Probably kneel down to do better. Those are pretty wicked speed bumps and
there is several of them to get through that parking lot, so I'm not confident at all that
that's viable access. That will drive the access through Hickory Way, which is already
congested. Some mornings on my way to work -- I drive that route every day and so
mornings on my way to work I have got to wait three lights to get through there if the
weather is bad and there is snow and ice and, you know, why should I have to wait four
and five lights so somebody can make a bigger buck off of property investment and
that's one of my main concerns. The traffic study that was shown -- I'm not an expert
and there is people here that know this more than I do, but there is a reality that -- that
traffic isn't evenly spaced throughout the day, right, it's going to be 8:00 to 5:00, the 7:00
to 8:00 chunk and the 5:00 to 6:00 chunk. It's already busy there. I'm not sure this will
help the case any. Parking. Just really quick. I handed out my handout. This is a view
of the dirt lot where the apartments are proposed to be and this is a Friday night and
this Louie's Restaurant traffic parked on that dirt lot. So, I guess my concern would be
once these spaces go away where are people going to park? Is the City Council going
to need to decrease the number of seats in those restaurants or just as they currently
exist and I think they are not -- they are not compatible. And, then, last, but not least --
and this is from my heart. My family and I have a lot of places we could live. We chose
Idaho because I think it's the best place for government looking out for people. I'm not a
millionaire. I don't have deep pockets. I'm not a big businessman and I don't look to
make a living off of hurting other people. So, I hope that you guys could be the kind of
government that can look out for the interests of the common people and I will just close
with a quote that I heard recently that I really liked and it said the greatest threat to
freedom as the alignment of the power of government with the wealthy. So, I would
encourage you to align the power of the government with the people that would be
negatively impacted by this project and vote against it. With that I stand for questions.
Or kneel for questions maybe.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Tiffany. Is there any questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor. Mr. Tiffany, I missed your address. I try to get an idea where
people are living, so I can get context to their comments.
Tiffany: 2720 North Lapis Avenue.
Palmer: Sorry, your street name?
Tiffany: Lapis. L -a -p -i -s.
Palmer: Okay. Thank you.
Tiffany: It's in Packard.
De Weerd: Any further questions? Thank you.
Coles: Amy Holladay signed up against, no indication of testimony.
Holladay: Amy Holladay. 2462 East Meadowgrass and that's in Packard.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Holladay: I did not have a plan to -- to speak, but when we are talking about access to
Fairview through the existing commercial area, not only are there speed bumps, but
human nature being as it is, people are swerving back and forth to catch those speed
bumps at an angle. Is there any plan that those speed bumps will be removed and,
then, that creates another issue of going too quickly through what amounts to a parking
lot. It's an access, but it amounts to a parking lot and I can't tell you how many times
have had to wait for someone -- I drive a Honda, which is a fairly low slung car. I take
them slowly and take them straight on when the area is narrow and it is narrow and
have to had run into people and wait for them as they are taking it at an angle, which is
there -- their right and I wait, but it adds to an issue. There really isn't convenient
access to Fairview and that second access that is by D.L. Evans Bank, again, that's
access to D.L. Evans Bank and if somebody chooses to go there, they are going to
force themselves and in ahead of the group that is already in line waiting for the light
and Idaho being as it is, polite people, we will be letting them in, as we let in the -- the
folks who come from the assisted vehicular -- I don't know the name of the building, but
it's all access vehicle for handicap. We let them in. But at some point it doesn't work
and I have had to wait two, three lights myself when -- yeah, I'm retired, I usually don't
have a place to have to be immediately, but it's annoying. We are talking luxury
apartments? I don't see any carports. If I have a luxury apartment I would at least like
my car to be protected from the elements. I don't call open parking luxury. And, again,
there is the property values set -- I don't have to go into, because I'm not an expert, but
do know Dove -- Dove Meadow and Packard will be affected. The school impact.
have been over at the school. It's crowded. And to address that as far as the safety
issues, some of those kids who are living there are going to walk to school. There is not
a convenient cross across Hickory for -- for these children to get across without
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worrying about the weaving. It's -- it's just too dangerous. It's too dangerous to add to
the traffic, to add to the prospect of somebody getting hit. And that's all I have to say for
now. Thank you so much for listening to my comments and thanks for your patience.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Colleen Proctor signed up against, not wishing to testify. Kathy Wiseman
signed up against, not wishing to testify. Scott Ingraham signed up -- Ingram signed up
against, wishing to testify.
Ingraham: I will go ahead and begin. My name is Scott Ingraham. I live in Dove
Meadows. My addresses 2606 East Clarene Court. I have been in the neighborhood
for over four years and when I purchased my house four years ago I moved from
Ogden, Utah. I was not expecting to have apartments -- an apartment complex put in at
the entryway to my -- to my neighborhood and two others. Hickory does not have no
parking signs on it, so to the best of my knowledge -- or at least when church is in
session there is parking on that street and when there is cars parked across from each
other it's a little tight getting a camper trailer through there with a three-quarter ton
pickup truck, again, because of the weaving. If there is overflow parking onto Hickory,
their kids are going to be crossing the street, which has already been established --
there is not a crosswalk there, there is no lines painted. Kids walking out in between
cars and stuff, somebody's going to get hit at 7:00 a.m. when it's still dark out. So, the
added vehicles in the area aren't -- aren't going to be acceptable. In the previous
meeting I tended with the developer, they indicated the overflow parking was going to
be on Hickory Street and, like I said, there is no -- no -- no no parking signs. Also in the
previous meeting with the developer -- and as she's indicated today, the cars could
access Fairview through business parking lots and access. This is not safe. Accidents
reported between Eagle and Locust Grove, after I left the last meeting in 2016, were
119 on Fairview and 135 in 2017. This was in that one mile stretch there were over 254
car accidents. I saw one last week and one the other day. I actually commit --
commute from Hickory through Locust Grove. On the way here at 5:30 1 had to sit and
wait for two lights at Locust Grove. So, I think we have already got enough traffic in that
area. I just work past Locust Grove there and just in that stretch 254 accidents in 2016-
2017. Six page accident report that I got from the City of Meridian Police Department,
along with adding these house -- these apartments, this is an upward trend in accidents.
Additional traffic -- and there is also 400 proposed units across Fairview that I
understand. We are already putting apartments in that area and those are for the med
school from what I understand. The safety of drivers and children in the area will be
further compromised due to increased traffic flow and, therefore, should be considered
to be -- and I quote from the Unified Development Code -- detrimental to the public
health, safety, and welfare. Fairview is not designed for the traffic it currently handles in
this region and expansion has been pushed out ten years already. I grew up in a
suburb of Vancouver, one of the infrastructure of Vancouver, BC, where the
infrastructure did not keep up with the housing growth, making the community less
desirable by long time citizens. My parents recently moved to Vancouver Island
because of that. That is what is happening here. I will be real quick. The Unified
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Development Code indicates -- and I quote again: That the design construction,
operation, and maintenance will be compatible with other uses in the general
neighborhood and with existing or intended character of the general vicinity and that
such use will not adversely change the essential character of the same area. High
density rental apartment units do not belong in such close vicinity and at the entrance to
three desirable single family -- mainly single story housing communities where a
majority of residents are owners and purchased their properties with the understanding
that local services would one day be in that location. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you, sir.
Coles: Linda Green signed up against, not wishing to testify. John Green singed up
against, not wishing to testify. Peter Kruger signed up against, not wishing to testify.
De Weerd: And you are allowed. Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and
address.
Kruger: Hi. I'm Pete Kruger. I live at 2612 East Clarene Court. I'm his neighbor. So,
that being said, I will be very quick, hopefully, it -- that is a picture I took going to work --
I think it was last Wednesday morning. That is every day for me. That is not a special
day, it is every day. That line in that picture stretches back an equal distance. Because
of that when they say that the traffic isn't bad on Hickory -- it is bad and it is that way
regularly. That's not Sunday when the church is in session. So, if you look, the light is
way over there and it stretches back behind me. I am about to the immediate right of
the paint store right now in this picture. So, that is one of the entrances supposedly that
was allowed to get into Hickory from those apartments. The other entries may be
another 20 yards behind that. So, if we are backed up this much already on
Wednesday at 7:53 in the morning, it's just going to get worse with putting apartments
there. That's all I got.
Bernt: You just got a text. I'm just kidding.
Kruger: Oh. My phone just --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And this may be a useless question, given that we have no idea what may end
up being developed on that giant property to the east of you, but just looking at an aerial
there is a few different future connections to there. Do you -- having lived there,
knowing kind of the movements of yourself and your neighbors, do you anticipate that
whatever connection out to Eagle --
Kruger: It doesn't go out to Eagle, it goes to Fairview.
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Palmer: Right. But I mean whatever future connection through the --
Kruger: There isn't any future connection, because there is one way out through --
Palmer: Oh, because you're are not connected to --
Kruger: And that's blocked off. There is a school there. There is Farmer John's field to
the right of -- what's it called? Solterra and the church and that's -- there is no road,
because it's a field and that's it. There is no roads there. There is not going to be a
road there, unless somebody buys the farmer's field.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: It is -- right. But I'm assuming by the fact that there is a couple of concrete
connections through -- Clarene Drive --
Kruger: Yeah. Right there.
Palmer: -- and Apricot --
Kruger: There is nothing -- other than way back in -- can I touch the screen to make the
hand -- right there. There. That there is a school and if you look on Eagle Road it says
no entry or no through, but you can get through that way.
Palmer: Right.
Kruger: And why would they go through all that way when they are way down there,
which is about three miles -- more to the --
Palmer: Madam Mayor. What I'm saying is that field would not be a field for eternity.
Kruger: Oh, it won't be a field for eternity.
Palmer: And so there will be a connection to there and --
Kruger: Worry about the, you know, traffic and cars either. It promises that. What we
have is this today and we will have that apartment complex in a year. Are they going to
buy the field in a year and put a road through? No.
Palmer: Madam Mayor --
Kruger: That field has been there for years.
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: If I might ask you a question. So, understanding -- I mean right now I live
south of Victory off Locust Grove. Locust Grove will eventually be widened. It's not
right now, there are still developments going on there, but I understand that in the future
I will have better connectivity up Locust Grove for myself. I'm just wondering, yourself
and knowing how -- your neighbors' movements, if you anticipate there being any relief
from a future connection through the field with -- who knows what might be developed --
no? Okay. Thank you. Because I have no idea. I have never --
Kruger: No. That field has been there for --
De Weerd: Okay. I'm sorry, if you can --
Kruger: This field has been here for years. I don't foresee it going anywhere anytime
soon. If it does go somewhere, it will go somewhere as it turns into a business, like
across the street at The Village, that's where the money will be made, it won't be made
by putting a road through it.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Kruger: Sorry. I went much longer than I thought.
Coles: Terry Chestnut signed up against, not wishing to testify. Michael Anderson
signed up against, not wishing to testify. Eleanor Anderson signed up against, not
wishing to testify. Kathy Edmonson signed up against, not wishing to testify. Angela
McDonald signed up against, not wishing to testify. David McDonald signed up against,
wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McDonald: So, David McDonald. 2679 East Grapewood Drive. The slides that -- oh,
this is going to be a problem. The slides that I compiled we had all the numbers -- can
you hear me? I don't think this can write.
De Weerd: If you would like, you can give the slides to staff and they can put it on the
overhead, so, then, everyone knows what you're referring to. Would that help?
McDonald: Yeah.
De Weerd: Here. Oh. Okay.
McDonald: This is fine. So, we had 110 responses to a survey and over 200 plus
petitions opposing this project. I will refute the concept that this was zoned 26 years
ago. There was a zoning that took place in April of 2003. Some of you here were
involved with that rezoning. They divided that property from 6.95 acres with this lot as
an intent of a less intense use and a buffer between my home and the homes that are
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adjacent to the more intense uses along Fairview and some of you were involved in
getting the light five years ahead of time for safety issues and that's probably why we do
not have memorial crosses on there. That's why I refute that we want people exiting
from the areas that do not have the light, even though it is sometimes ten to 15 minutes
to get through that light. Your second slide set -- slide on that deck is really what I'm
wanting to propose is we are not against development, I'm proposing that professional
offices is really what we have been waiting for. It's what Bill Nary stated on a previous
denial that it's what this property owner bought, it's what we all bought into. There is
value in legal certainty here on this property. We have to travel further for dentist offices
and to professional services than we do to our grocery store, so I'm more or less a
proponent of professional offices in this location. Daycare. Healthcare. We are going
to have a 480 unit apartment complex 530 yards south of this Louie's for the medical
professionals that will be coming in. We have the diversity of housing. I'm proposing
we need diversity in these professional services and businesses. It will help us avert
going through the worst intersection 530 yards to the east of us, where a water main
broke. We all understand traffic. I'm not going to beat that one to death. The housing
density and ratio was another big -- big issue here. H-20150036 you denied on a
density simply because it was 12.55 units per acre. This is 20.3 adjacent to 3.59 or less
density. The landscape plan is one that really gives me a hard swallow. The wall of
trees means I will never grow another salsa garden in that area when they are fully
mature. Another slide set that you have out there was actually proposed by two
individuals in a roof sharing case where it talked about overlooking balconies being a
problem. That reduces the property values for a prospective buyer. This is just too
much density. It's too tight of a spot. They really need to move it somewhere else
where they can put better amenities and compete with pool houses and clubs. I also
refute the fact that elderly people will be using this. I mean they will not go into units
with stairs. It's just flat out they won't. You have got all the -- the side decks there.
They pretty much explain it. I get concerned when -- the only creativity these
developers have when they can't, quote, get the light office developed is apartments
and it really lacks imagination. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McDonald: Any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Karalyn Hall signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Hall: I'm Karalyn Hall and I live at 2646 East Apricot Court.
De Weerd: Can you move closer --
Hall: A little bit louder?
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De Weerd: Yes. Thank you.
Hall: I live on 2646 East Apricot Court, which is the first intersection after you pass on
Hickory Road to -- going north past Capital Christian Center. My house is right behind
there. Every morning a bus stops there and picks up children. If I go to leave early in
the morning there are cars parked on the highway on the road, up into our road and it is
a real challenge sometimes to get out. That's the same way it is in the afternoon.
There is two roads to River Valley, Hickory through Packard to the school or they can
go in from Eagle into the school. Those are the only two ways into the school and they
are separate, you can't connect the roads. And as you have heard before, there is a
traffic jam. Sometimes it takes you three times -- three street lights to get out onto
Fairview to go anywhere, because traffic is backlogged and especially on the weekends
when Capital Christian is having church and, bless their hearts, they should. Solterra is
having a problem getting out at the same time. We are all trying to exit from our
properties at the same time. There isn't anymore room for anymore traffic and we need
-- we need to keep it as -- as it is today. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Amy Linhart signed up against with no indication of testimony. Kara Stevens
against with -- not wishing to testify. Wally Kimball against, not wishing to testify.
LaDell Anderson signed up against, not wishing to testify. Carolyn Flanagan signed up
against, not wishing to testify. David Cook signed up against, with no indication of
testimony. Sally Ellsworth signed up against, not wishing to testify. Steven Hall signed
up against, not wishing to testify. Kathy Jone signed up --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Oh. Excuse me.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Hall: Good evening. Steven Hall. 2220 North Justin Way, Packard Estates.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hall: To answer Councilman Palmer's question about access to Eagle Road, ITD has
been closing down the entrances into the mall. There is no way they are going to
authorize an entrance road into a housing addition off Eagle Road. So, that's not going
to be an option. Madam Mayor, you pointed out we were putting in luxury apartments
and we need affordable housing for people to go into, but I have been sitting here
tonight and here is what I have been hearing. We -- we want to have commercial
property and we want to have high density next to it, but yet when we put out our plan
we don't put any high density zoning in there. So, if we are going to zone, we need to
allow for that, so that we know that that's what's going to go in there and when we
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purchase property we know what we are getting into. What is sitting there now is light
commercial and is a perfect opportunity for -- for executive buildings to go in there.
Dentists. Those type things that would fit into that area -- that zoning and would be of
benefit to the neighborhood. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Kathy Jone signed against, not wishing to testify. Craig Croner against, wishing
to testify.
Croner: Good evening, Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Good evening.
Croner: -- and Council Members. Craig Croner. 2648 North Santee Place. Just one --
first I want to -- there is a lot of competing interests and I appreciate the job that you all
do. You're doing a fine job. We are happy to have -- now being residents in Meridian,
fortunate to have the things that are going on here and there is a lot of competing
interests and I -- add I -- I just want to acknowledge the job that you're doing is to be
commended. Normally I shy away from public testimony, because I worked for a
neighboring municipal government right next door, so I typically won't do public hearings
for that reason. However, tonight I felt compelled to do so, because I live in Packard
Estates and I have observed some safety issues that I think need be brought to
everyone's attention. First and foremost, the traffic that's been talked about tonight is --
it is a problem. The light that goes from Hickory out to Fairview, I have watched people
on multiple occasions cut through parking lots on both sides of Fairview and that
becomes a problem -- problematic at times, especially in the early morning hours when
there is children around. I have seen several near misses myself and I think it was -- it
was very interesting to me when I looked at the traffic study that ACHD did, it was only
on p.m. hours and, really, the problems that most people have talked about tonight
really happened in the a.m. and so to do the traffic study in the p.m. was just interesting
to me that that even happened. Not to get too many more things on the traffic, but, you
know, just adding more people to come into that limited thoroughfare on Hickory I think
is just going to add to the immediate concerns that you're hearing tonight and I would
just implored the Mayor and Council to -- not to reconsider this, but actually uphold the
Planning and Zoning -- their -- their decision, so -- thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Croner, I heard you touch on something that I haven't heard from the
testimony tonight and that is the prevalence of people who live in your neighborhood
using that common drive to get onto Fairview. Can you talk a little bit more about how
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big of an issue that is and, again, give us a good indication as to how many cars stack
up and the impact of traffic both getting in and out of that business, as well as the
impact on Fairview.
Croner: Yeah. I would be happy to, Madam Mayor and Council Member Cavener. The
-- the biggest problem in the morning is what I see is people will cut either through
where they are proposing to have that entrance into that sub -- or into that apartment
complex, that in and of itself I see people speed through that, cut over through the bank
and, then, cut across to get onto Fairview and then -- and, then, try to cut across the
other lane of traffic and only to go again across the other RV dealership across the
road, cut through that parking lot to get onto Hickory, which is really -- the timing of that
light, because they can still make that turn before anyone else can actually get through
the intersection. Hopefully that answers your question.
Cavener: That was my fear and you have confirmed it. Thank you, sir.
De Weerd: I think that keeps our police very busy.
Croner: Thank you again.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Chris Middleton signed up against, wishing to testify.
Middleton: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Middleton: Madam Mayor, Council Members. Thank you for your perseverance. It's
been a long evening.
De Weerd: Well, thank you for your perseverance.
Middleton: I am Chris Middleton. I live at 2303 North Hickory Way in Packard Estates.
I have one fundamental point which is transition. When you look at all of the buildings
that the applicant presented, you can see kind of the lay of the land as it sits right now.
You put in a two and three story apartment complex right next door and despite what
those photos suggested will be right next door to all the existing buildings. That single
story office complex will not block that apartment building, so you go from single story
office, two and three story apartments and, then, single family dwellings within a
hundred yards. There is no transition there and I think that will create a very adverse
impact for the community, for the property owners there. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Craig Randall signed up against, wishing to testify.
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Randall: Mr. Tiffany, it's a longer walk when you have waited longer. Madam Mayor
and Members of the Council, my name is Craig Randall. I live at 2528 East Meadow
Court and that's in the Packard Estates Subdivision. I think it's interesting as we look at
the -- the gathering of neighbors behind me -- and thank you for sticking this out, too.
know this matters, because we are here long; right? And we weren't first on the agenda
like we were at the Planning and Zoning, but this matters to us. I live in a great
neighborhood. I love my neighborhood. I love my neighbors. It took me about a week
to know everybody in my little cul-de-sac. That's Meridian; right? So, I don't think
anybody here is anti -people or anti -coming to Meridian to live. We all chose to live
here. What we are against are some of the major things that have already been
brought up. The parking issues. The traffic issues. The density issues. And the
recently discussed -- this building is too tall issue. I wanted to share a couple of things
and I just want to focus on -- I made similar comments in the P&Z meeting back in
February. The -- the UDC for -- that we follow in Meridian, 11.1.2 Section E, we are to
do what's most appropriate for the use of property and I find that based on the
overwhelming testimony in the negative and the recommendation of the Planning and
Zoning Commission to deny this rezoning permit, that we are in agreement there, that
this is not the best use of this property. Frankly, I have talked to people in my -- in my
immediate vicinity, my neighborhood, and I have enough of a ground swell where we
might can make a dent in buying the property from Louie himself and turning it into a
community garden. That's what people want. Just something that's a little more
pleasing to the eye and more useful to the neighborhood. Also in Section 11.1.2F, we
are to protect the property rights and enhance the property values through the decisions
we make as a community and you make as the City Council. That would not be served
with approval of this. One thing that has not been mentioned in this -- in this meeting is
that the average detriment to home values that are near apartment projects like this one
is a negative 15 percent in home values and that's in a situation where, yeah, there is --
I realize that there is a small -- or maybe a dearth of availability, as has already been
brought up, but I'm not interested in having my property value dipped by 15 percent and
that's within the radius that I live in that -- that that study -- I'm not in the backyard, I
don't butt up to the new property like Mr. McDonald does, but there is plenty of
proposed and existing high density housing. I went over to the -- the ones that are
behind where the Culvers is now off of Ustick. I have a weakness for butter burgers.
But it -- that's high density. They are filling their building. They are going to get filled
great. But we don't need this here. I'm not -- again, I am not anti -growth, I'm not anti -
apartments, I'm not anti -bringing people to Meridian. There is a reason we live here.
It's a great place. But this is the wrong place -- wrong development for this property and
I strongly urge that you vote against this and follow the recommendation of the Planning
and Zoning committee when you consider this. I will take any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Randall. Any questions? Okay. Thank you.
Randall: I have convinced you. Excellent. Thank you.
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Coles: Eric Buehler signed up against, not wishing to testify. And Brittany Buehler
signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Buehler: Hi. My name is Brittany Buehler. I live at 2104 North Josie Way in Packard
Estates.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Buehler: Mayor Tammy and City Council, my family and I live in Packard Estates and
we are concerned about the rezoning change and subsequent -- subsequent proposal
to build apartments on Hickory Way. It would be an abrupt change to go from L -O to R-
40 zoning. We all bought our homes knowing that it would be light commercial
someday. Building 40 apartments instead doesn't take into consideration the mature
neighborhoods around it. The L -O zoning creates a buffer between the single family
homes and the commercial properties on Fairview Avenue and as I understood from my
studies of city -- the City of Meridian's Comprehensive Plan, density changes should
be a one-step change. Going from L -O to R-40 classification seems like an enormous
leap. Two and three story apartments, instead of a light commercial office, would be an
incompatible transition next to the single story homes that are adjacent in the Dove
Meadows neighborhood. Apartments don't fit in with the look and the feel of any mature
neighborhood, not just mine. The apartments they look nice, but they don't match the
housing the way that our builders built our houses. Additionally, 480 apartments will be
built just south on Pine, 40 more in the vicinity seems like a lot. We do have a lot of
traffic. West Ada School District is grossly overcrowded. Kids walk home from school
that way. The bus stop stops just a few houses away from the entrance to the
apartments and cars do park on Hickory. Kids walk home from the elementary school
and Hickory Avenue is really curvy, it's hard to get out of the little pockets in the
neighborhood if you're not being careful and I think we will have a lot more traffic that
are trying to hurry and cut corners and they won't be watching out for our children.
Hickory Way has -- also gets the overflow parking from the church and it would create a
lot of problems having additional cars there. I walked through my neighborhood and
collected 44 signatures on a petition to oppose the zoning change. Do you know that of
the 44 homeowners I spoke with, every single one of them opposed it and they told me
how concerned they were of the project. We have a total of 208 signatures. I, with my
neighbors, urge you to follow the Planning and Zoning Commission's recommendation
to not rezone this and to not put apartments in here. Thank you for your time.
appreciate your help in working with our community and trying to make our
neighborhoods a great place to be. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brittany. Any questions from Council? Thank you.
Coles: Jesse Vycital signed up against, not wishing to testify. Galina -- I believe it's
Martinson signed up against, not wishing to testify. Bagden Martsenyuk signed up
against, not wishing a testify. Shirley Moon signed up against, wishing to testify.
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De Weerd: Good evening.
Moon: Good evening. Hello to you Tammy and to the City Council and I'm a new
transplant to Meridian and I'm loving it here.
De Weerd: Can you state your name and address.
Moon: Pardon me?
De Weerd: Can you state your name and address.
Moon: Yes. My name is Shirley Moon and my address is 2834 East Clarene Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you, Shirley.
Moon: And I live in the Solterra development and I attended the P&Z meeting last
month and it was really interesting. As I mentioned, I'm new to this area, so here I am
one month later I have had two occasions to be here. So, it's really exciting. Anyway,
only --
De Weerd: What a way to get involved; right?
Moon: I only have three minutes, so I better hurry. So, I just thank you for your
willingness to listen and since their P&Z meeting in February last month it has given us -
- all of us time for -- to really look with a critical eye, go out and measure. Someone
was looking for a tape measure to measure the streets, because it's -- what's being said
here today it's almost like you can't even get a grasp of it until you go there. You
mentioned Louie's parking lot and the representative for the developer called it cross -
access and existing driveways. Can you imagine building a home or an apartment and
that's your access, a cross -access or existing driveway? You don't even get your own
street. Anyway, it's just -- it's just beside me. But I am here to say to all of you, please,
help us with your expertise and your experience. We even had time to -- I had time to
get on the internet and check you folks out, because I'm going to -- because I'm going to
get to vote for you someday. I want to digress just a little bit and go back to a
newspaper article. I love the little Meridian Press, because it tells a lot about the
development and it's just so interesting and so I want to refer to the January 19th article
and it's in reference to the Linder Village development and there is a consideration for a
plaza, a park, road reconstruction, appropriate placement of commercial buildings to not
disrupt the neighborhood and this is where I fell in love with Council Woman Genesis
Milam. She said -- she encouraged the developer to listen to what the people had to
say and make it happen in a way that is kind to the neighbors. When I read that it just
gave me hope that you folks are willing to listen and after sitting here almost four hours
you really have great tenacity, too. So, I spoke to a former city planning and he told me
that each neighbor has -- has his own designated physical boundaries and within each
neighborhood is there a sense of community and I love what this project has done for
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our community. We really have gotten acquainted as we are going around knocking on
doors, getting petitions signed, wanting to know what people are saying and we all see
the disaster that's almost there, because of the traffic and I would love to just -- you just
take one little bird's eye view of one block from where Hickory connects with -- with
Fairview. Within that first block our businesses on each side, a parkway that separates
the street, a huge church that has about 500 parking spaces and, then, still within the
block is my development of 89 units and directly across our driveway. So, directly
across, it's this new development that has their development on driveways and so our
development has in and out, it's the same area. We only get one road to get in and to
get out. It's directly across the street. So, here we are colliding, trying to get out of our
driveway. But there is about 500 homes past his first block, five hundred to a thousand
homes. I don't even know how many. All you see is --
De Weerd: Ma'am, I'm sorry, you need to summarize.
Moon: Okay. My summary is I would like you folks -- I got it right here. Please
consider our plea. I thank you for listening. I am so appreciative of all the questions
that you have had and now you ask us questions. So, thank you so much for your help.
De Weerd: Thank you for your testimony.
Coles: Bev Harringdale signed up against, not wishing to testify. I apologize if
completely mispronounced that last name. Sandra Nelson signed up against, not
wishing to testify. Randy Nelson signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Nelson: My name is Randy Nelson. I live at 1873 North Marnita. I'm in that Solterra
community. We also just moved up here ourselves and I hope I don't say it too fast,
because my head is full of everything, but this is a nice place, move it someplace else
and we would all be happy. It's zoned for the reasons that it is and the people that want
to have the dentist office and other businesses, we all appreciate that. We would want
that. But that corner right there -- that street is a serpentine street. Hickory -- if the right
place could be identified on this corner, leading onto Hickory from their -- from their
resident -- the apartment complex, it's a term that's behind you. You can't see it and if
you look at the way, the corner is coming from another direction, so you pay too much
attention. Either way you will always have a problem there and it's disingenuous that
the people who want to have this --
De Weerd: If you will get closer to the microphone.
Nelson: Yeah. I dance. Everything hurts, so I'm just glad to be here. Disingenuous for
the access to and from into this place. If you go over those speed bumps one time, you
will never want to do it again. If you want to eat there you will go -- you will go a little bit,
but you won't go four times and leave and come that way and I promise you you won't
want to turn left onto Fairview out of that access point. You will not cross that street.
It's too close to the light. It's too many problems. So, the other access points that was
-- were described our places that businesses get there shipments and deliveries behind
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the paint store. It has nothing to do with residential living community people. It's -- it's
there for the reason that it is and whoever put those speed bumps did it for a reason.
They don't want people flying through there. So, you're not going to come and go
through that -- that access anymore. But the street itself is choked off and somebody
brought up quite a while ago about the nice Idaho people. We came from another state,
we are happy to be here. We love this place. The access almost to Hickory and
Fairview where the business is that has converting vans to motorized help things, we let
people in. The church let's people in. But you start backing that up further and further
and you -- it's just -- we lose that. We lose what we have. We are losing it anyway. It's
a beautiful community. Enjoy it someplace else where you have access to and from it,
but don't choke us off any more than we are already. We are bottlenecked all the way
in. The last lady -- we butt heads to leave out of there. So, we are worried about head
on, we are worried about around the corner, we are worried about what's behind us,
because you cannot turn that corner without pulling out into it to see what's coming the
other way. Kids. Bikes. Pedestrians. Joggers. Anything. That corner is -- doesn't
depict how sharp it is. You cannot see behind you to leave out of that complex. So,
thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Sheryl McCormick signed against, not wishing testify. Jan Wheatley signed up
against, wanting to testify.
Wheatley: I'm Jan Wheatley. 2535 East Bernice Drive in Packard Estates and thank
you, Councilman and Madam Mayor. I'm here to present my -- my valid concerns. I am
so concerned that my neighbor and I -- we stood at the corner -- at the intersection for a
couple hours in the night in the cold weather handing out information about this
meeting, so that we can make sure that you folks knew how important this was to us to
have this stay zoned the way it was originally when we bought our properties in Packard
Estates. My husband is from California. I'm a native. And because there are so many
children and we live on -- we live at the crossroads of Hickory and Bernice and the kids
are always coming there, we back into our driveway into the garage. My neighbor next
door -- he says you really do a good job backing in there. I go I have to, because I don't
want to run over one of those children if I'm backing out of my driveway, because those
children -- they don't pay attention. We are all older, but if you can remember when you
were a child you didn't pay attention to the cars. So, we are very concerned. They
don't put speed bumps in our -- in our Packard Estates because is too dangerous for the
fire department, thank you, to get in there and so the driveway that she's talking about, it
has many speed bumps in there. If you have been to Louie's you know they are big
speed bumps, so they can't -- they can't come in and out of there. So, isn't it a fire
hazard -- sorry, I'm a little nervous -- to have those speed bumps there if they are going
to have that be for their egress -- in and out. So, I hope that you keep it as it's zoned
originally and I appreciate all of your work and, yes, we do vote for you.
Borton: Thank you, Mrs. Wheatley.
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Coles: Michael Kleint signed up against, not wishing testify. I think that's like a match
up. Lorraine Kleint signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Kleint: My name is Lorraine Kleint. I reside at 2081 West -- North Hickory and I just --
was the one that made the mistakes. Anyway, I just want to let you guys know that
really would like you to really consider this. I -- same thing. I originally came from
California. Moved to Idaho, because it's a better place, my kids -- everything -- grew up.
Didn't have to worry. All I just -- and I know that you have to develop, because I came
from that type of a place, but all I'm asking is -- is just look at it, because it is -- they are
right, the children, the buses early in the morning do pick up two different times. We
have Meridian and we have got some Centennial that pick up. Also the speed bumps is
also I -- where I have gone to work and -- gone to work. I'm seeing almost accidents
where people don't want to wait for the light, so they go through the parking lot and just
zoom across and try to get across Fairview, so they don't have to wait for the light. So,
all I'm asking is just looking at this -- you know, just look at it and make sure you do the
right decision. Like I said, I don't -- I wouldn't mind, you know, anything else in there,
but those -- those apartments are -- are not going to be good. So, thank you for your
time.
De Weerd: Thank you. And it's been requested -- I'm going to call a five minute recess.
I think we all probably need to stand up. We have been here since 5:00, so -- thank
you.
(Recess: 9:57 p.m. to 10:03 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. if we could take our seats again. It's nice to see everyone enjoying
their five minute break.
Coles: Next on our list -- John Anderson signed up against.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Anderson: I'm tired, too. You do have stamina. That's encouraging. I'm John
Anderson. I live at 2564 East Bernice Drive in the Packard Estates and I have been
here about 15 years. Just a couple of things. First of all, I want to make one comment
when the presentation was made -- and I watched both of them now. I was here at this
last meeting. This place was packed. Wall to wall standing room only and all of them
were here for this particular -- opposed to this particular project. So, it was -- it was
pretty impressive and everyone got their say and it's the same thing tonight. Everyone's
getting a say and I appreciate that and I know everybody here does as well. But I
watched the presentation of the project twice and it bothers me just -- you know, just --
have been around the block a few times and, you know, when you -- you represent
driveways as streets and access and you represent numbers that are nonsensical in
terms of where kids will go to school and whatnot and, then, you -- my public areas are
great. I have 40 units. I'm going to have probably 70, 80 people. Don't know how
many kids. But people can -- can let the kids play on the playground equipment and
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they can sit in the open area and watch them. There is three tables and two umbrellas.
It's a hundred degrees here in the summer. So, I look at that and, then, I hear that they
are luxury apartments, but they are affordable. And, then, I hear, well, there is a lot of
people that are going to move their -- their parents are going to move in there to be near
their kids. I'm 69 years old. If my kids brought me to a place like that and said, dad,
mom, we found this great apartment. It's 900 square feet, it's only 1,200 dollars. I know
that's more than you're paying for your 3,140 square foot house, but don't worry, dad,
because I think you could still get up those three flights of stairs, can't you? Everybody
in my -- everybody in my age over 55 -- and there will be people who will live there and
admit there will be, but most people that are my age -- or they are looking toward
retirement, are looking for -- when they talk to a builder about building a house or
anything else, it's age in place. Wider doorways. Whatever. You -- at our age you get
used to just -- the level things. If these were condos, they had elevators or whatever the
case may be, maybe you could make a case, but I just when you represent something
that way, but it's -- it's just hard to believe that that's what it is. It decries, you know,
honesty and the truth and it bothers me a little bit in that. What I would like to leave you
with is that when we -- Planning Commission voted unanimously to -- they listened to
us, they listened to all of us, at the end they told us why they were going to vote the way
they were going to vote and I would like to ask each of you if -- whatever way you vote
on this, we would like to know why you think this would be a good idea, having now the
second time everybody's come here -- larger group last time, but all the same issues.
It's just a bad fit. It's just -- maybe a good project for another locale, but not here. And it
makes no sense. This would be the -- if you had -- I have got ten grandchildren. If
took the three, four or five year old -- there is a book all of them have loved, it says give
-- and you turn the page, you say what doesn't belong in this picture. Every one of my
five year old grandchildren -- maybe up to -- maybe up to 18 when they didn't forget it,
they could tell you. That building -- those buildings don't belong in there. That's the
only thing that doesn't match. It's the match game. So, if you would, if you would just
share with us when you are all done and as you vote, just tell us why you either approve
or why you don't. We would just like to hear that. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Anderson.
Coles: Ken Griffin signed up against, not wishing to testify. Glen Griffin signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Fred McCormick signed up against, not sure if that's a Y
or an N. Go with N. Dan Kimball signed up against, wishing to testify. Not here. Okay.
Nancy Newman signed up against, not wishing to testify. Keith Feeley signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Deb Skinner against, not wishing to testify. John Skinner
against, wishing to testify. Okay. Mike Fenn in favor, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will state your name and address for the record.
Fenn: Mike Fenn. 2295 Grapewood. And I have lived on Grapewood for over eight
years. I love my neighbors. I love my community. I never knew how blessed I was to
have never run into some of these issues. The traffic -- I will actually agree with some
of the numbers that were shown. Eight years living there. The only trouble with traffic
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that I have had is when it's icy or bad weather, I slip all the time coming out and I will
hold up the cars behind me, so if there is the first car coming out having trouble,
everybody else behind him is having trouble. That's only when it's icy, that's only when
it's bad weather. I have not had many bad experiences with the traffic going in or out
and I was looking forward to a nicer, smaller, high-end apartment complex coming in.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Fenn: Any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Sir.
Cavener: Sir, would you -- would you be willing to entertain a question?
Fenn: Yes.
Cavener: I will just cut to the chase. It's fairly typical for people who are opposed to a
project to sit through this long meeting and express their feelings. It's rare that we have
somebody who is willing to endure this same process to speak out in favor. I'm just
curious, what motivated you to sit through this meeting and share your feelings with us
tonight?
Fenn: Because I knew it was rare and just like that graphic showed, 97 percent against,
three percent for, I'm one of the three percent and those opinions need to be valued as
well. I have lived on Grapewood eight years, not one problem with a lot of these things
that are being mentioned and --
Cavener: Thank you for sitting through and sharing your opinion. I appreciate it.
Fenn: You're welcome.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Silveska Kyastin signed up against, not wishing to testify. Bagden Martsenyuk
signed up against, not wishing to testify. Sanel Tucakoutc in favor, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. You all are making that microphone look really low.
Tucakoutc: Sorry.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Tucakoutc: Yes, Ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Sanel Tucakoutc. And business address is
1537 North Linder. I'm a real estate professional. I attended the neighbor meeting for
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this project where only two neighbors showed up. One of those neighbors was Dave
McDonald, who is the president of Dove Meadows HOA, the adjacent neighborhood to
the north. They have expressed little to no concern regarding this project. After the
neighborhood meeting I reached at them several times addressing concerns him or the
neighbors had, but he stated he was too busy. I also sat in on the last P&Z meeting and
wanted to share my thoughts and a few things. According to COMPASS, Meridian is
now home to nearly a hundred thousand people. Per the city's existing conditions
report vacancy is at 2.4 percent, which is an all time low and that demand is keeping up
with the building boom. Only -- excuse me. Only 12.5 percent of the city's housing
units are multi -family that's per the existing conditions report page 25. Boise is nearly
three times this. There is a need for multi -family housing in good locations like this.
will also mention that 29 percent of Dove Meadows, which is a neighboring --
neighborhood adjacent to the north, is 29 percent of that is rental units. The existing
conditions report states: While relative to other communities of similar size around the
country, Meridian lacks diversity and balance in a residential form and density, pages 38
and 39. Regarding property values. Many neighbors have expressed their concern
about property values and crime. The fear that housing density will hurt property values
seems to be primarily based on anecdotes. Araw Shore, who has a master's degree in
real estate development and city planning from MIT, he states large multi -family
developments do not have a negative impact on the sales of nearby single family
homes. Again, this is only 40 units, so I wouldn't even call this a large multi -family
development. I did some comparisons and I compared Baron Sub, which is on the
corner of State Street and Gary Lane, which is right there. It's adjacent to 430 multi-
family units. This neighborhood is here. It is 1.7 miles to the east. It's called Mortgage
Square Sub. The homes in these neighborhoods are nearly identical. Mortgage
Square Sub is also surrounded by single family homes and acres properties. When
looked at the assessed values, the subdivision adjacent to 430 multi -family units have
higher assessed value. All the homes that I polled were within one hundred square feet
of each other and this is the 430 units here, with commercial up front, and I looked at
these homes right here on Baron Lane and those are the comparisons again. Sorry.
As far as crime goes, opponents to multi -family projects often argue that people who
own their homes are invested in the long-term success and safety of a community and
people who rent apartments are merely short-term transients and criminals and,
therefore, are less desirable neighbors. However, this is not true. Multi -family
developments are not associated with high crime rate, but socioeconomic status is.
These are high end apartments and there is only 40 units once again. Sorry. I will
finish up here. Per Scott Oliver. One barrier to multi -family in -fill development comes
from neighbors who say I'm okay with this, just not in my back yard. Their problem is
their backyard is our community. If we kick the can down the road we are diminishing
the quality of life for everyone. The solution to the housing conundrum is to build more
units of all prices near where people want to be. This is a great location for this project,
as it sits near -- near the core. It is also near the largest employers in Meridian. St.
Luke's, 1.7 miles. Scentsy and Blue Cross are .09 miles away. It's also a stone's throw
away from The Village. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Tucakoutc: Question?
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you, sir.
Tucakoutc: Thanks.
Coles: Lindsay Newgard signed up in favor, wishing to testify.
Newgard: Lindsay Newgard, 5934 North Alder Point Place. Boise, Idaho. I'm actually
here because I'm a business owner in downtown Meridian. I have been here for 12
years. Twelve. It is so important to add housing around this area. I can't tell you how
many -- I actually employ a lot of millennials. I actually employ a lot of elderly people as
well. You know, we all commute here to Meridian. I live in northwest Boise, so I just
wanted to kind of go over some things -- you know, I understand like, you know,
neighbors' complaints and things like that, but there are planning documents in place
that are so important to uphold. You know, when we are talking about development and
moving people and housing people, it's so integral. So, I just wanted to take a look at
the existing use, you know, light office technically is, you know, on an existing arterial. It
has street frontage. You know, there is a few exceptions. But, again, the R-40, the
majority of it is fronted by commercial and pushed back and it's especially apparent on
Fairview, which is a designated ACHD priority corridor. They -- so as Sanel just kind of
briefly talked about, the existing conditions reports, you know, it's -- there is not a lot of
rentals here and rentals are important in any vibrant community. ACHD has
improvements slated for Fairview. There is no denying it. They want to see seven
lanes. There is funding for this project. When it starts they don't know. It's a
community partnership between businesses, households, and the city to bring not only
improvements to the roadway, but to bring transit and that's a huge deal for me, is you
guys bringing transition into Meridian. When you look at it, it's a dead zone for transit.
Developments like this help bring transit. Valley Connect 2.0 says one of the biggest
proponents for adding transit to this area is -- is increasing households and increasing
them along these corridors where it's accessible -- is imperative to transit. It's not
DOD. I mean I can't even understand why there is DOD mentioned in the
Comprehensive Plan. The future land use map designates this as high density
commercial and, you know, when you're putting, you know, 40 units in on, you know,
two acres, that's 20 units per acre and you're leaving it up to the developer in a DA to
basically say, okay, we are not going to screw the neighbors and that's exactly what it
looks like that these -- this developer is not doing. He is increased the buffer, you know,
they have actually, you know, like planned just other things to help buffer that residential
area. You know, that -- they could get a conditional use permit or a DA for, you know,
the commercial as well. I just want to touch on one last thing. The site has existing and
planned walkability. So, when we are talking about reducing traffic, which is what the
neighbors are complaining about, you know, using these walkways -- this site is located
in this red area right here. These are your planned walkways. Here is the master plan
with every single planning document overlaid on this area. It is so close to the core. It
is less than two miles from where my business is. You know, people can really connect
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and, you know, Complete Streets rates this area very high for completion and it's only
going to get more complete the more people we, you know, put in in responsible
developments. It's super integral. I support this development. I support the multi -family
along a corridor, such as ACHD. I appreciate everything you guys do. Thanks so
much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Shannon Herbert signed up against, with no indication of testimony. And Dana
Herbert, also against with no indication of testimony.
Herbert: Hi. My name is Dana Herbert. I live at 2704 East Bernice in Meridian. That's
-- we were one of the first people in the -- in that phase in Packard Estates. I wasn't
planning on saying anything, but just looking at the agenda and noticing that we just
spent, what, an hour and a half talking about Copperpoint, about the density and the
traffic impact of that and just looking at the numbers in the agenda, that was worked out
to 12.6 units per acre and this one is at 19 units per acre. That's a lot of density in a
small space. Exiting out onto a road that's basically a two lane road and as far as traffic
at that light, there is a left turn lane and a straight and right. If there is one person going
straight, no one is turning right until that light turns green. And I have seen people try to
get around that by, you know, cutting through the Louie's parking lot, but more
commonly I see them go through the bank parking lot and go the wrong way through the
drive -up teller window. So, granted, the bank is not open when I'm going to work, but
still that's -- people are people, they will find the easiest route, which people are going to
park on Hickory from that complex. There is -- people are going to find a spot. They
may even park at the church, you know, in the evening. Who knows. But it's -- I mean
looked at the plan and it looks like -- it looked nicer than the Copperpoint ones. But
think it's just the wrong spot, you know. I agree, you know, more high density housing
would make a difference, but this is an established community, an established
neighborhood with a certain personality and it's just not the same fit. So, that's all.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Michel Cunningham signed up against, wishing to testify.
Cunningham: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, we appreciate your time here. Michel
Cunningham. M -i -c -h -e -I. Not to be confused with Michelle. I live at 2044 North Justin
Way, Packard Estates. I was the fifth house that was built there. Been there for 19
years, so I have seen a lot of development in our area. Hickory Way is a bad area to try
to drive through. Fortunately, I own my own business. I leave the house at 6:00
o'clock, before most people are in and up. I get home at 7:30 at night, before there is --
I mean all the traffic has already gone. So, I'm the president of the homeowners
association. We have 254 houses in our association. We have a board of directors.
have talked to all of our board of directors, they all agree that this is a bad idea. But we
are not directly adjacent to that property. So, it doesn't immediately affect us, other than
the traffic. So, by stating that we would rather it didn't pass. We appreciate all of you
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on the board of directors -- or I mean on the Council here and we hope that you vote
against it -- as to the Planning and Zoning's referral. Thank you very much for your
time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Jeff Miller signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. Chuck Carlson signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Britney Hall -- not wishing to testify. Robert Jenkins
signed up against, wanting to testify. Sylvia Jenkins signed up against, not wishing to
testify. Sara Watts signed up against, not wishing to testify. Gweneth Tyler signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Colin Feeley signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Meredith Fehringer signed up against, wishing to testify. Elizabeth Voss against, not
wishing testify. Curt Voss signed up against, not wishing to testify. Don Steinke -- is
that correct? Not -- would you like to testify?
Steinke: My name is Don Steinke. I live at 2558 East Apricot Court, right on the corner
of Apricot and Hickory.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Steinke: We were the first residence of Dove Meadows. We have lived there over 23
years. Everybody has talked about the traffic. You are right, traffic is terrible. I'm
concerned about the traffic going the other direction. Our subdivision is connected
through Chateau Meadows and people that want to take a shortcut, because Fairview is
crowded, shoot through our subdivision and go 45 or 50 miles an Hickory. I had a car
end up through my fence into my backyard, almost killed my dog. Okay? It is not safe.
I get flipped off every week, because people are screaming through the subdivision and
I honk because I almost get hit. I'm at Hickory and Apricot. If you looked at the map it's
right on that curve. It's a blind corner and people coming out of -- Packard Estates,
love you guys, but you drive a way too fast. People going through the other way from
Fairview, I kid you not, we get -- the police put -- put their little speedometer thing there
for one -- you know, one week out of a year and I can guarantee you every car slams on
their brakes as soon as they see it, because everybody knows they are going too fast.
We are going to get a kid killed there some day and I just ask the fire marshal, the
fireman here, why can't we get speed bumps? I see speedbumps in other subdivisions.
We can't seem to get them in ours. ACHD tells me it's the fire department won't allow it.
He says -- that's not true. It's not the fire department. I don't know who it is that won't
allow it. But the traffic going the opposite direction is terrible and when we get
apartments there people are going to go, oh, I can make it easy through Chateau
Meadows, perfect, and they are going to scream past my house and almost hit me and
flip me off again. So, we are against it. I don't really have anything else to say.
De Weerd: Well, I'm sorry for rude drivers. Thank you for being here.
Coles: Debbie Steinke also signed up against, not wishing to testify. I think, Madam
Mayor, I have made the list through all the sign-ups.
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De Weerd: Thank you. Yes, ma'am. You can take your time.
Fehringer: I apologize. My name is Meredith Fehringer. I live at 2627 East Moog
Street. It's in Packard Estates. Previously I actually lived in Chateau Meadows and so
we have been there for about nine years in the total area and, actually, tonight is my
wedding anniversary and so I moved in like tomorrow. So, I have been in neighborhood
for about nine years and right as I moved in -- I had moved from McCall and I was
looking for work and I actually went to Louie's to work and that's where I worked when I
was doing a master's degree through U of I downtown and I worked there in the
Meridian School District for about two years and I can tell you as a former employee we
were instructed to park on the dirt road. We were also instructed not to park on the
Dean Evans -- or the D.L. Evans, excuse me, or in the Trophy Shop and the Mortgage,
because those neighbors were already upset with the amount of traffic that Louie's was
bringing in and the parking and the overflow situation. So, it's funny when you mention
that parking is atrocious. It's -- it's well known by us or those who work there and, you
know, one of the things that crossed my mind is where are -- where are they going to
work? We were told, you know, hey, they knew I was walking distance, hey, we will
give you a ride home if you will walk here to just alleviate the parking situation and I just
wanted to point that out. It is a fantastic restaurant. This lot has sat empty for years,
but it's really not appropriate for that use and I don't know where we would all park if we
are going to go enjoy some of their lasagna and garlic bread and I -- but I had one more
point, but I think that's it. Thank you. And have a good evening.
De Weerd: Thank you. Happy anniversary. Any other testimony? Yes, sir.
Malkowski: My name is Carl Malkowski. I live at 2199 North Chandra Place. I would
like to, first of all, thank you guys for all that you're listening and enduring. I would also
like to apologize for my stepson, he is pretty obsessed. I'm sorry. Nothing I could do.
would like to make a comment about the parking. I mean the parking is bad. I -- while
visiting Louie's a couple of weeks ago I asked them -- I said, hey, the developer
mentioned that they could use your parking for overflow parking when the apartment
needs it and he goes, let's be honest, anybody that's lived in an apartment complex,
even 70 spots or the minimum that's required, it's not enough for apartments. That
might be enough for most of the people that live there, that's not going to account for the
guests. It's not going to account for the other people. Every single spot that you see
that's in red, there is signs there that state there is no -- nobody's allowed to park there.
It's strictly for the businesses only and that they will tell you they are going to end up on
that street. That's a narrow street that was already bad when the church is in session.
It's going to be that way every day, because people are going to find a spot -- that car
that they don't drive as much, they are going to put it in the street and we are going to
be constantly dealing with trying to get around those vehicles, creating an additional
unsafe area. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further testimony? Yes. You need to come up front and
testify. Oh, you don't want to. Okay. Well, we will have Mr. Clerk come over and you
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can sign the sheet. Okay? So, we will take care of that. You have already testified.
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Any further testimony? I'm sorry, you cannot testify from the back
row either. So, any further testimony? I'm sorry, ma'am. Okay. I guess I -- do you
have any further questions of anyone who has provided testimony? Yes. Good
evening.
Martsenyuk: Good evening. My name Bogdan Martsenyuk. You can guys pronounce.
I'm from Ukraine original. I live on 2593 East Apricot. Here 22 years. And about the
lady -- I don't remember her name. She was okay to build and she say Fairview going
to be wider. I have a question for her, how he -- or how we going to get wider?
De Weerd: The long term plan does show that --
Martsenyuk: Well, yeah, but I don't think so. Wider Hickory Way. I'm not their things.
do -- was before when we have a hearing and today I waste so much -- not waste --
spent so much time after hard work and the gal I don't remember either, who built -- try
to get you guys approve for build apartments, she explain so much about the power of
money. Power. How we can fight. We have poor people. We have no power. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. And, sir, I would disagree. You have plenty of power. Would
the applicant like to come and wrap this up.
McKay: Sorry, I still have a sore foot.
De Weerd: If you will restate your name for the record.
McKay: Becky McKay. Engineering Solutions. 1029 North Rosario.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKay: So, I will try to kind of address some of the -- some of the comments that came
up.
De Weerd: Do you want to pull that mic over, so --
McKay: Sure.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKay: You know, one of the questions that came up as far as carports -- we are
required under the ordinance to provide 50 percent of our spaces to have carports. You
don't see them on the aerial rendering, that's just because that's -- that's the way the
landscape architect prepared it. As far as these units, there are like four units on the
first floor, four units on the second floor. So, can an elderly -- does an elderly person
have to go up the stairs? No. They would get a first floor unit. Or a handicapped
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person. We have to meet the ADA standards. Secondly, the question was about this
drive aisle. This drive aisle is 26 feet wide. We will be adding onto it. It's a little bit less
right now, but we will be adding onto it and increasing that width. There are three -- a
series of three speed bumps along that that were installed. When I talked to the
gentleman on the Mortgage company, he said what was happening is they were getting
cut -through traffic from Dove Meadows and Packard Estates through there and
especially people that were going to take a right out on Fairview, so they put those
speed bumps in. So, you know, what -- I have been doing this for 27 years and so what
we have as our guidelines is a Comprehensive Plan and the ordinance and we need to
go off of the facts and the facts are that this particular piece of property has access to a
collector. Now, in the previous hearing I think it was mentioned -- well, you know,
typically we like to see multi -family developments on collectors. We are on a collector.
Secondly, the fact that this property has sat here for so many years, because it has
absolutely no visibility from Fairview, it has a Hickory Way address and it has sat there
for 25 years and it's not going to develop. They have tried and tried and tried to sell it
for -- for office and have been unsuccessful and so anytime we have a piece of property
that, obviously, the designation that's on it doesn't fit right, then, we see it just sit there
undeveloped and from the city's perspective, as far as the cost to provide services,
Madam Mayor has told me, you know, we need to develop these in -fill properties and,
you know, when -- when new planners jump out to the west it costs the city more money
to provide services and so here we have an in -fill parcel, we have one that, obviously,
the existing zoning has not been successful and works. Two, it has a designation of
commercial on your Comprehensive Plan. Commercial on your Comprehensive Plan in
the description talks about office, retail, multi -family. It talks about a mixture of uses.
It's -- it -- it encourages a mixture of uses, so that we don't just end up with strip
commercial along that Fairview corridor. Secondly, school capacity was brought up.
We did contact the school. Spoke with Eric Exline and he indicated that River Valley
Elementary currently has 495 kids. It has a capacity of 650. 1 -- my employee lives on
Grapewood. He's lived there for over ten years. I asked him -- I said where does the
school bus come and pick up the kids. He said it stops at Grapewood past your
entrance or proposed entrance to Apricot. I asked him do you have significant difficulty
because our office -- he goes straight on Hickory, because we are off Pine. I drive
Hickory constantly and I only see just a few cars stacked up there during midday. I said
during peak hours in the a.m. I said is there significant stacking and he says sometimes
there will be maybe six to nine cars stacked up. He said it's really not a problem. The
only time we see significant stacking is on Sunday when the church is in session and
they let all those cars out and I looked at -- when Solterra came through. This is the
ACHD report. The same people that are here from Packard Estates had the same
concerns. Safety. Speed. Traffic volume. Capacity. ACHD did an extensive analysis.
They even clocked the speeds out there and said the average speed is 23 miles per
hour on Hickory Way that -- and it is posted 25. As far as capacity, they said it's --
Hickory Way is well under capacity. They also looked at traffic accidents and said over
the past seven years there have only been four accidents at Hickory Way. One was a
dui, one took out a sign in the median, and three were rear ends at the stop light. So,
they did an analysis. They also looked at the clear vision triangle up at Apricot. So,
they studied that. When we have mixed uses, residential, it's compatible with
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residential. Densities may vary and we see that all the time. Just as Solterra is R-15,
those are 3,200 square foot lots. They are up against R-4 and Packard Estates. We
have a significant separation between the existing homes -- this home, from my building
to this -- from my building to this house there will be a 40 foot separation, plus
vegetation, plus there is an existing six foot masonry wall. Whoa. I'm getting excited
here. From this house the separation to my building will be 85 feet. From this home 64
feet. If I look up at Packard Estates, they are over 700 feet away from my project and
also mapped -- I got a copy of those that testified at the Planning and Zoning
Commission and I mapped their locations and some of those people are 1,700 linear
feet from this project. And they talk about community. Our hearing signs were
vandalized twice. Once prior to the Commission meeting and, then, they were
vandalized again before the Council hearing. I also looked at the project. If it were to
develop as single family dwellings versus the 40 multi -family units, there would be 118
more vehicle trips per day. If it were to develop it with -- as office with the same square
footage as we propose, there would be more than one hundred additional vehicles
beyond what we will generate. So, you talk about traffic, I mean I think they need to
look at what is the impact if this does go L -O? We are a low traffic generator. I also
looked at Dove Meadows and 29 percent of the homes in there are rentals. So, it's --
they are not all owner -- owner occupied and the height. The height of the buildings.
We are proposing two story buildings -- oops. Sorry. I'm trying to get to it. We are
proposing two story buildings. These buildings are 28 feet six inches tall. Those are
the two story buildings. We have them -- they are modulated. Articulated. We are
using all kinds of variations in -- and textures and materials in order to make them look
as aesthetically pleasing as possible. The one three story unit that I have will be behind
Louie's Restaurant. That is 38 feet eight inches. If we look at the footprint of these two
story buildings, the footprint is less than a single family dwelling. Two thousand one
hundred and seventy-seven square feet is the footprint of my two story building. The
footprint of my three story building is 8,520 square feet. We have, if we look at our
landscaping, almost 48 percent of the site is going to be landscaped. This -- I will wrap
it up. This is one of the nicest projects that I have worked on in an area that deserves
some mix of uses and this will provide that and these people can be a component of this
neighborhood and be a benefit to this neighborhood. It's a small scale development.
We are talking 40 units, not 400.
De Weerd: Thank you, Becky.
McKay: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Becky, I recognize you had to work through a lot of comments in a -- in a brief
amount of time. One piece that I didn't hear you comment on that I would like to hear is
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there were I think a few questions about really asking why so dense and it's -- you got a
lot of units packed into a real small space. I'm curious, can you articulate kind of the
thought process behind why so many units in that small amount of space in an already
congested area?
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, in the number of units we looked at
various styles of buildings and various densities. In order to, obviously, provide the
extensive landscaping, the amenities, 40 units was basically the minimum as far as
whether it was economically viable and so when -- in working through as far as this
area, it's not congested, it has adequate capacity for -- I mean we have to look at the
facts as far as is there capacity. Yes. Are we even getting close to the capacity. The
answer is no. And these people are going to walk to businesses. They are going to
bike. I mean if we are going to start promoting alternative transportation we have got to
have density. The people in the homes just jump in their cars. They are driving to
Louie's.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Becky, how many of these buildings are two stories, how many are three?
McKay: There are two buildings that are two story. There are eight units in each
building. Four units on the first floor, four units on the second. There is one building
that is three story. There are 24 units, eight units on each floor.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you.
McKay: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further questions?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I move that we closed the public hearing for H-2017-0165.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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De Weerd: Okay. Discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Perhaps a challenging site indeed in light of the history and Ms. McKay does do
excellent work and solves amazing challenges in this community and has for a long
time.
De Weerd: Can you pull your microphone a little closer.
Borton: Sure.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: The concerns that have been raised at P&Z and here today I -- for me have not
been resolved and I don't know if they can be resolved with this type of application. The
-- the short list is the -- the unresolved concerns with traffic, access, poor access,
safety, transitions and compatibility and parking, kind of the quick bullet list of
expressions that have been shared by the public, both at P&Z and I don't think have
been resolved by this discussion. So, it may be a challenging site for sure, but this
project as proposed and this application is not something that I support.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I agree with Councilman Borton one hundred percent. I -- looking at this -- this
application -- this rendering in front of me, it looks beautiful. I mean I see a bunch of
green all over the place. Unfortunately, it doesn't -- it's not reality in how it fits within,
you know, this -- this little parcel. My concerns are lack of access to this development
and also the kind activity within the development that goes out to Fairview and because
of that it just -- it makes me nervous and it just -- it's just not satisfactory enough for me
to approve this project, so I agree with Councilman Borton.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, I made a list. The gentleman asked us to make a list, so I'm going to do this
kind of a bullet style format. But, yeah, I really -- it does look like a nice project. I don't
feel like it fits. I don't feel like it's the highest and best use. Not that I have a great
solution for that either, but my points are the traffic and safety issues. The density is too
high for that tiny little piece of land. I do like the L -O zoning, but it doesn't have visibility,
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which is why I don't have a great solution. I don't think that going from single story
residential to multi -family with -- is enough transition and I respect the work of our P&Z
Commission and their decisions. So, I haven't been able to be convinced otherwise.
De Weerd: Okay.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Since we were asked to state our thoughts, Becky, you do amazing work
and this is a wonderful project, but I am very hesitant for this project at this location. It
was mentioned this is a beautiful rendering and -- but I don't feel like that's what it's
going to end up looking like, because that space just seems too small to have an R-40
in it and just too many things that we keep going back to with the parking and the -- and
the dirt that what -- we all know if we go to Louie's park on -- because the parking is
unavailable for business there for parking here and it just seems like that's going to
create such a struggle within that area. The gentleman with his phone that had the
picture on there with people trying to get out and things, it just -- just seems like it's just
not as good a fit as it could be for this area.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I will be happy to chime in with my thoughts and I think it's -- I think it's
important for the public to know there are certain grounds on which we can make a
decision and not make a decision. It's not based on who gave the better speech or how
many people came out in favor or opposed. We can't even make a decision based on if
a project could potentially increase or decrease property values. These aren't areas
that we are able to make a decision. What we are able to make the decision on is it
appropriate within our code. Is it a good use of land. Again, oftentimes we are faced
with projects I think that I have been supportive of, knowing that the end product isn't as
beautiful -- is going to be as beautiful and wonderful as it is in the renderings. Honestly,
in this case I don't feel that way. That -- the projects that Ms. McKay has brought in the
past have been upstanding and it is a testament to her work and her team's great work
to bring projects that make Meridian a better place. The comments, though, that
struggle with is -- that I have heard from Council Members here tonight. It's about
connectivity and to me it's access and that common drive off of Hickory and the impact
with businesses and using their parking lot is a -- as a cross -access, I -- I really struggle
with and for me, then, kind of the tipping point is -- is the density. As I mentioned
earlier, I think we are stacking too many bodies in too small a space that is already
impacting an already congested area and so I am not in a position this evening where
can support this application and would choose, rather, to support the Planning and
Zoning Commission's recommended -- recommendation of denial.
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Palmer: Mr. Palmer? Okay.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Before your motion --
Bernt: Sorry. My apologies.
De Weerd: -- I don't vote, but I will weigh in. I think that this is trying to fit a square peg
in a round hole. It's -- it's out of place and there are going to be apartments in this area
that meets the comments to the two in favor, which I think they raised really good
points, but it just didn't apply to this location. You -- I frequent Louie's. I love Louie's
and the parking lot is always full. You do pull out into Hickory and you do stand in line
and wait for that light and so, Justin, we need to look at the timing of that light if we
could and so I -- the comments ring true. There was no exaggeration. It does concern
me as Councilman Cavener mentioned on the cross -access and backing out parking for
a housing unit into drive aisles. It -- this was a nice project in the wrong place. So,
appreciate Council's comments and I would call on Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Thank you, Madam Mayor. After considering all staff, applicant, and public
testimony and recommendation from Planning and Zoning of denial, I move to deny file
number H-2017-0165 as presented during this hearing this evening.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: With all of this discussion about parking and -- going off a little bit, but with
Louie's employees being told to park out in the gravel, maybe the highest and best use
for this property is a parking lot. Sorry.
De Weerd: I am sorry, I can't take her anywhere. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: The ayes. Have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
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De Weerd: And I would also ask our police if we can pay attention to that collector and
the parking that is -- if it's not signed, it needs to be signed. We should not have parking
on that collector.
Stokes: Yeah. I will go look, Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you. Thank you for hanging in there. Okay.
Milam: We are going to be here for a couple more hours, if anybody wants to hang out.
F. Public Hearing for Seyam East Subdivision (H-2017-0159) By
Volante Investments, LLLP Located on the North Side of East
Franklin Road and East of North Touchmark Way
Request: An Amendment to the Future Land Use Map
Contained in the Comprehensive Plan to Change the Land
Use Designation on 14.82 Acres of Land from the MU -R
(Mixed Use Regional) to the Industrial Designation
2. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 18.33 Acres of Land with
an I -L Zoning District
3. Request: Preliminary Plat Consisting of 10 Building Lots on
22.98 Acres of Land
Borton: We are going to continue on to Item F and open the public hearing on Item H-
2017-0159 and we will begin this application with staff comment.
Allen: Thank you, chair. Excuse me. President, Members of the Council -- all right.
Here we go. The next applications before you tonight are a request for a
Comprehensive Plan map amendment, annexation and zoning, and a preliminary plat.
This site consists of approximately 23 acres of land, it's zoned I -L in the city and R-1
and RUT in Ada county, located on the north side of East Franklin Road, east of North
Touchmark Way. The west parcel there, the gray one on the map on the left, was
previously annexed and preliminary platted as part of Seyam Subdivision. The
Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for the west parcel is industrial
and the east parcels are mixed use regional. The applicant requests an amendment to
the future land use map to change the land use designation on approximately 15 acres
of land from mixed use regional to industrial. The proposed change will extend the
existing industrial designation south of the railroad tracks from North Touchmark Way
and North Guadians Avenue to the east and will eliminate approximately half of the
overall mixed use regional designated land in this area. If Council approves the
proposed change, staff recommends the remaining mixed use regional designated land
to the east is also changed to industrial and a subsequent map of amendment.
Annexation and zoning of 18.33 acres of land with an I -L zoning district is requested
consistent with the proposed industrial future land use map designation. A conceptual
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development plan was not submitted for this site. However, photos were submitted that
represent what future buildings on this site will look like. Because buildings constructed
along the frontage of this site will be highly visible from Franklin Road, an entryway
corridor in the city, staff recommends these buildings comply with the design standards
for commercial buildings in the architectural standards manual. This was also a
requirement for the adjacent properties to the west in Seyam Subdivision. Staff
recommends the existing development agreement for Seyam be modified to include the
subject property. A preliminary plat is proposed that consists of ten building lots on
approximately 23 acres of land in the proposed I -L zoning district. There are two
existing homes and accessory structures on this site that are required to be removed
prior to city engineers signature on the final plat. Staff is recommending an additional
provision in the development agreement tonight that was not included in the staff report
that requires the existing residential use of the property to cease once the property is
annexed into the city. Allowing the residential use to continue would create a
nonconforming use as residential uses are not allowed in the light industrial zoning
district. The proposed plat depicts the extension of East Lanark Street, an industrial
collector, from the west through this site to the east boundary and a new local street via
Franklin Road that intersects with Lanark. The Evans Drain runs along the north
boundary of the site and as a natural waterway is required to be left open and not be
piped and should be improved and protected. Any other ditches on the site should also
be piped. The Commission did recommend approval of these applications. Brad Miller,
Volante Investments, Van Auker Company, testified in favor. No one testified in
opposition or commented. And Brad Miller, again, the applicant, did submit written
testimony on the application. Key issues of discussion by the Commission was the
applicant's request for the existing residences to remain on the site until such time as
the property redevelopes due to hardship for the existing residents and access for the
existing homes via East Franklin Road if they are allowed to remain on the site until
redevelopment occurs. The Commission did not make any changes to the staff
recommendation and their only outstanding issue for Council tonight is the one I just
previously noted about the existing residential use of the property ceasing once the
property is resold and annexed. Written testimony since the Commission hearing has
been received from Brad Miller, again, the applicant, in agreement with the Commission
recommendation. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Sonya, should we decide to approve this tonight, what is
the process and how long does it take? So, if we approve it tonight do those poor
people have to leave tomorrow?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Little Roberts, Council, essentially the applicant
would have up to six months to sign the development agreement, submit it back to the
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city, and for Council to approve that agreement. The ordinance goes along with that.
And once both of those items are approved and, then, the property is officially annexed.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to make comment?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: As he comes forward, I do appreciate your March 2nd ridiculously
unreasonable response to the unreasonable staff report.
Miller: Brad Miller with Van Auker Properties. 3084 East Lanark in Meridian. We are a
Meridian business. Keep that mind.
De Weerd: And Brad really can come up with some doozers I would say.
Miller: Well, I'm just -- I'm just glad that the previous hearing ended, because my
battery is running low and I didn't have enough to watch another episode of Suits, so
thank you very much. As you know that we are -- we are industrial developers and if
you will note, the area between Franklin Road and the railroad tracks, all the way from
the sugar factory or the Idaho Center past the mall, is -- that -- that corridor is all
industrial and there is a real need in the City of Meridian for industrial property. The
property to the west of this property, which we own, is industrial. We have owned most
of these parcels for over 25 years. We are getting around to developing them. The
issue in regard to the residential is Pat Nations, so we bought five acres from her. She
has until July to relocate and/or extend her agreement with us and, then, I have a trailer
-- we call it the goat farm where the goats are. I don't know where those people are
going to go. So, I guess I would ask for one concession from the Council. I know that
already said I agreed with staff -- staff comments, but they changed that one on me this
afternoon. The only thing I would ask is that we be given the sooner of recordation of
the final plan or one year to remove those residences and cease those uses. I have
already addressed the issue with the people in the trailer and I'm trying to work
something out to get them out and if we can do it sooner we will, but it really is kind of a
hardship for them. For Pat it's not really a hardship, because we paid her a lot of
money, but she does love that home and so I will go to work on that immediately with
Pat. I haven't talked to her yet, but I already have talked to the trailer people. So,
would ask for your approval on this project. It's -- interestingly enough, over at Linder
and Franklin we have our Cream Line Subdivision there and we built four industrial
buildings in there that we own and they just leased up in a hurry. There is a real need
for clean industrial uses in the city and we would appreciate your support on this. I will
stand for any questions if you have any.
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De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. And there is. That's all we are seeing come in looking for
space.
Miller: Well -- and just one more comment. One of the things in your code it requires
most industrial uses to be done indoors. So, when we say industrial uses, we aren't
talking about ugly, smelly, you know, unsightly industrial uses, we are talking about
indoor stuff. You know, storage of food products and things like that, so -- thank you.
De Weerd: Great. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for the applicant.
De Weerd: Brad.
Cavener: If he would entertain a -- Brad, as Sonya indicated, you guys would have six
months. You don't think you can get your hardships addressed in six months?
Miller: Well, that's -- I'd like to think that we could. But, honestly, the people who live in
the trailer own the trailer. We own the land. They lease the land from us. They don't
have any place -- there is no place where they can move that trailer. So, I think it's --
don't know exactly what's going to happen. We may have to help them out financially to
get them relocated somewhere else. I don't know exactly what we are going to have to
do. I'm going to meet with them next week and talk through the options. But I mean
they are in their -- their situation is not my fault, but I feel compassion toward them and
-- and don't want to create a burden for them. But I mean our objective is to get this
thing done as quickly as possible, because of the demand in the market. But if I had up
to a year -- the sooner of recording the final plat or a year I guess is what I'm asking.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to
provide testimony? Okay. Seeing none, Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor, is that --
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Is it a year from today, a year from -- just so we are clear. We can pick a date?
All right.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion to close the public hearing?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we close a public hearing on Item H-2107-0159.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: For consideration I would move to approve H-2017-0159 and to include a
specific DA provision that requires the existing residential use on the property to cease
at the sooner of the recording of the final plat or March 10th, 2019.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-F. Any discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, real quickly for discussion. Excited to have more industrial
use within Meridian. I'm not supportive of the DA for one year. I just want that note on
the record.
De Weerd: If there is no further comment, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. Ayes have it. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
G. Public Hearing for Whistle Stop Subdivision (H-2017-0167) By
Biltmore Company Located at 1297 E Pine Avenue
1. Request: A Rezone of 5.73 Acres of Land from the L -O to
the R15 Zoning District
2. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a Multi -Family
Development Consisting of 68 Residential Units on 5.7
Acres of Land in the R15 Zoning District
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3. Request: A Combined Preliminary and Final Plat for 16
Building Lots and 3 Common Lots on 5.7 Acres of Land in
the R-15 Zoning District
De Weerd: Item 9-G is a public hearing for H-2017-0167. I will open the public hearing
staff comments. And our congratulations for being the last on the agenda and still being
here. Awesome.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, before we get to staff, is -- since it's -- I usually am not paying
super close attention to who the exact developer is, but since I saw Kevin Amar in the
room, there is a chance that if this were to be approved, my uncle may be a part of the
construction of it. I don't live with him. I don't receive any financial benefit whether this
passes or not, other than maybe some harassment from him at Sunday dinner, but,
regardless, it wouldn't change my ability to act accordingly.
De Weerd: You can remain unbiased.
Palmer: Unless there is any objection from anybody else. I think I can remain
unbiased.
De Weerd: Okay. Very good.
Borton: Thanks for sharing that.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The last application before us tonight
are a request for a rezone, conditional use permit, and a combined preliminary and final
plat. This site consists of 5.7 acres of land. It's zoned L -O, located at 1297 West Pine
Avenue. A little history on this property. Back in 2004 a conditional use permit for a
multi -family residential development was approved on this site. The developer installed
the underground improvements, including the bridge over the Nine Mile Creek, and all
of the water and sewer mains and pressure irrigation systems, but never commenced
construction of buildings. In 2007 another conditional use permit for a multi -family
residential development was approved, but no further development occurred. Previous
primary plats were also approved, but the final plat was never recorded. The
Comprehensive Plan future land to medium high density residential, which is eight to 15
units per acre, with a rezone of 5.73 acres of land from the L -O to the R-15 zoning
district. A site plan has been submitted that shows how the property is proposed to
develop with 15 four-plex structures and one eight-plex structure, containing a total of
68 multi -family residential units, for a gross density of 11.92 units per acre, in accord
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with requested step down in density. Since approval of the previous multi -family
developments on this site, the Unified Development Code has been revised to no longer
allow such uses in the L -O zoning district. Therefore, a rezone to a residential district is
necessary to develop the site in accord with a residential future land use designation. A
conditional use permit is requested for a multi -family development, consisting of 68 two
story units in the R-15 zoning district. The units will be contained in ten townhome style
four-plexes, with the living room downstairs and two bedrooms upstairs. Five traditional
four-plexes with two bedroom units downstairs and two bedroom units upstairs and one
eight-plex with four one bedroom units downstairs and four one bedroom units upstairs.
The project is proposed to be constructed in one phase. Access is proposed via an
existing driveway from West Pine Avenue, which also provides access to the adjacent
multi -family residential development to the north. A connection to the driveway stub at
the east boundary of the site is proposed for interconnectivity. Parking is proposed in
accord with UDC standards, with an additional five spaces. Carports are proposed to
meet the minimum covered parking requirement. Qualified open space is proposed in
excessive UDC standards. Proposed site amenities consist of a ten foot wide segment
of the Rails With Trails pathway along the railroad tracks in accord with the pathways
master plan. A tot lot with children's play equipment, a community garden with raised
planner beds, covered by cycle storage and a pathway along the south side of the
creek. Three different types of building elevations were submitted for the townhome
style four-plexes, traditional four-plexes, and an eight-plex. All are two stories in height
and consist of a mix of horizontal board and batten and shake siding with cultured stone
accents and architectural composite roofing. Final design is required to comply with the
design standards in the UDC and the architectural standards manual. A combined
preliminary and final plat is proposed as shown, consisting of 16 building lots and three
common lots. The Commission recommended approval of the subject applications.
Kevin Amar testified in favor. He's the applicant. No one testified in opposition or
commented. And no written testimony was received. The key issues of discussion by
the Commission was a pathway connection to West Pine Avenue as recommended by
the pathways project manager. That has since been revisited by the project manager
and determined a pathway connection is not needed in this location. And, secondly,
adequacy of the proposed parking, although it exceeds UDC standards and whether or
not the UDC should be amended to require more parking for multi -family developments
and, lastly, a pathway along the Nine Mile Creek and extensions east and west of this
site. The Commission did make one change to the staff recommendation, as previously
noted in condition number 6.1 in Exhibit B that requires a pathway connection to West
Pine Avenue and associated fencing and landscaping. That condition was removed.
The only outstanding issue for Council tonight is that the applicant requested and staff
recommends approval of their request of condition number 1.6.6. It requires the
property to be subdivided prior to applying for a certificate of zoning compliance
application and they want to go ahead and proceed with development prior to
recordation of the plat. Staff is supportive of this request, because multi -family
developments are not required to be subdivided. More than one building is allowed on
a lot. The applicant is only proposing to do so for ownership purposes for the individual
structures. All buildings are required to comply with the setbacks for the R-15 zoning
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district based on the configuration of the approved plat. There has been no written
testimony received since the Commission hearing. Staff will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions? Okay. Would the applicant like to make
comment?
Amar: Madam Mayor, Council Members, my name is Kevin Amar. Address 1548 West
Cayuse Creek Drive here in Meridian. This should be the quickest comments ever. We
agree with staff. Thanks for your time tonight. We ask for approval. Most of the
improvements have already been completed and I think we are just completing what
was approved in the past. So, I will answer as many questions as you want and I would
stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I think it looks good to me. I do have a concern about one of the amenities that
you have of the garden. I'm never a big fan of the gardens. They are so difficult to
maintain, you know, people like the idea of community gardens, but no one's really --
you know, briefly -- people have time to maintain them properly, so they are effective in
-- is there any other -- anything we can do, other than a community garden, as an
amenity -- you know, approved amenity for this -- for this development?
Amar: We can look at something with staff. We put in the community garden because
of projects that have this for multi -family and we do have people that are out there
taking care of them and maintaining them. I originally had to be convinced, because
believed as you did, I didn't think it was something that would be used, but it's not a
large garden, it's just the garden boxes that people can go and grow their tomatoes or
just have something to go and -- I don't know, pretend like they are farmers I guess.
Something to go and do, other than being in an apartment and some other activity. So,
I'd like to try it. I have never tried it on these, but I have visited others that they work
well and with the manager on site they take care -- they take care of them and make
sure that they are at least not a weed -- weed garden.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Something that came up earlier in the discussion at the last -- not similar
project, but multiple housing unit project. So, assuming these are going to be sold to
separate owners and how is that -- how are they going to be handled in the owners and
the management of them?
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Amar: Yes. So, the -- it's an interesting discussion about the separate ownership.
Most apartment projects are owned by multiple owners, whether we -- whether we know
this or not, they are owned by investment groups, they are owned by TICs, they are
owned by four-plex projects and it really does get down to the management company.
have been in projects and I have been around projects that are owned by one owner
and they are poorly maintained and I have been around projects and developed many
projects that are owned by multiple owners and they are very well maintained.
Ownership has more to do with the management on site than it does with who is out
there owning it. I mean whether it's a commercial project that -- I have an office building
in a large commercial project, along with a dozen other owners. It's the same scenario
that we would have in this project. That management group within that will make sure
that the buildings are maintained, that the siding is painted on a regular basis, that the
lawns are all mowed, because they are all mowed by one project -- or the one
maintenance company for the entire project. It's not up to individual building owners to
mow their lawn or shovel the walks or plow the driveways, that's all done through a
business owners association similar to Silverstone or EI Dorado or Paramount Business
Park where I am. And so the same -- the same scenario is set up on any of these
projects that I have done and I have done a number of them, not only in this city, but
other cities, and they are well maintained. We have some of these that are owned --
you know, and this project there will be -- will be multiple owners. Right now I think
there are -- I don't know how many for sure, but probably five or six owners that are
going to own this. We, obviously, can't sell them yet, because it's not approved, but we
have interest in it and that's -- that's kind of what the ownership group is going -- going
to look like. But all of those owners know that there is one management company.
They have to use that management company. They can choose a different
management company when we are finished with the project, but they have to use one
management company and that's part of the ownership documents and it's also part of
the business owners association or building owners association that's set up. I really
feel like it works very, very well.
Milam: You think all owners will use the same -- whether they change to different ones,
but they will all be using the same one no matter what?
Amar: Correct. Apparently we use Parkways Property Management. We are very
happy with them. If the business -- if they -- if they go and use a different one later it
doesn't matter, they just all have to use the same one. It doesn't -- in my opinion it
doesn't work well the other way.
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you.
Amar: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there anyone who wishes to testify? Okay. Council?
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Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Dragging this out. I move we close the public hearing on Item H-2017-0167.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I would move to approve H-2017-0167 to include staff and applicant comment,
in particular -- it sounds like agreed upon amendment to 1.6.6 as discussed by staff.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Milam: Second.
Little Roberts: Sorry. Second.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Councilman Borton, did you want to include any language like we did earlier
regarding the management and having the HOA looked over by our Legal Department?
It seems like similar --
Borton: Certainly if -- that's what Kevin was -- was discussing is the -- so, sure. So, the
motion would include the commitment that the -- the property's management would be
-- got to phrase this -- the obligations to manage and maintain common areas and -- is
set forth in a recorded property management -- or ownership -- business owner --
property owner agreement I guess, for lack of a better term, that's recorded -- I believe
that would be done -- last time it was done before the certificate of occupancy on the
first property, so we would have that same condition on this one and there are some
head nods that that would not be a problem.
Milam: And reviewed by our Legal Department.
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Baird: I might suggest that on this one, due to the lack of opposition and the
understanding of the owner and the desire to get on with it, that it not necessarily need
to be reviewed by legal.
Milam: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor. It could be provided -- provided to you, but --
Milam: Follow precedent.
Borton: -- Kevin has got it --
De Weerd: Okay. Kevin apparently knows what's --
Milam: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Borton, yea, Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea,
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Department Reports
A. Mayor's Office: City's Position on Proposed Legislation
De Weerd: Sometimes it pays to be last. Okay. Item 10-A. There is no city position on
any upcoming legislation. Well, there is. It's going to the House.
Palmer: The Senate.
De Weerd: To the Senate I mean. Yeah. Sorry. So, anything on that?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Palmer: The other day I was at the -- at the capital and happened to learn about some
legislation -- I guess it was in Robert's report and I hadn't noticed it and learned about it
15 minutes before the meeting and so I testified and made clear that I wasn't testifying
on behalf of the city, but as the opinion of that councilman, myself, what it would have
done is it would have made it so that the public notices -- our public notice requirement
would have been optional to do it in the newspaper if we did it on the website instead. It
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did fail in committee due to some issues where there wasn't really a standard, where it
just said you could put it on your website in lieu of in the paper, but there was no
requirement of where on the website it was, how it could be accessed and so it failed on
that, but I think there is a real opportunity for that to pass next year and save us and
every other municipality in the state a ton of money by eliminating having to put it in the
paper, with some kind of a standard.
De Weerd: We will be one step ahead when it does pass. I know staff is working on a
web link and something on our landing page for the website, so that people can find
development applications easier and so it will meet the intent and will be plug and play
at that time.
Palmer: Awesome.
Item 11: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Anything further? Okay. Very good. Well, the future meetings. We do
have an ACHD joint meeting coming up. MDC joint meeting next work session on March
13th at 6:00. Journey of Heroes public art dedication is March 15th at 4:00 o'clock at
Heroes Park and we are going to begin accepting city scholarship applications until April
6th. Anything further? If not I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Milam: So moved.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:29 P.M.
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