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Home My WebLink About2018-02-13Meridian City Council - Planning & Zoning Joint Workshop February 13, 2018 A joint meeting of the Meridian City Council and Planning and Zoning Commission was called to order at 6:39 p.m., Tuesday, February 13, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt. Others Present: Bill Nary, C.Jay Coles, Clint Dolsby, Kyle Radek, Caleb Hood, Jeff Lavey, Scott Colaianni, Joe Bongiorno, Cameron Ariel, Dale Bolthouse, Mike Barton, Keith Watts Chris Pope Todd Lavoie and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll -call Attendance: City Council X Anne Little Roberts X Joe Borton X Ty Palmer X Keith Bird X Genesis Milam X Lucas Cavener X Mayor Tammy de Weerd Planning and Zoning Commissioners X Lisa Holland _X Steven Yearsley X Gregory Wilson _X Ryan Fitzgerald X Jessica Perreault X Bill Cassinelli X Rhonda McCarvel — Chairperson De Weerd: Okay. I'm going to go ahead and call this meeting to order. This is a joint meeting of the Meridian City Council and Planning and Zoning Commission. I will ask our city clerk to call roll first for City Council and, then, second for our Planning and Zoning Commission. Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda De Weerd: Okay. All present. Thank you. Item No. 2 is adoption of the agenda. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: I would move we adopt the agenda as published. Cavener: Second. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 6 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 2 of 48 De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 3: The Differences Between Codes and Policies De Weerd: Item 3 is -- I will turn this over to Caleb. Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Planning and Zoning Commission. First, thank you for taking the time out. You all look so cozy up there. I do appreciate you -- we just got out of a Council Meeting, but I do, again, appreciate you all -- you all taking the time and the effort to be here. Maybe before we jump into the agenda as published, I would just maybe do a couple of introductions. We have some other community development and planning staff in the house. So, I'm just going to maybe embarrass them a little bit. So, we have -- and I actually have a slide with everybody's contact information and their -- their position. But we have I see Brock Cherry first. So, he is an assistant planner. And, then, Stephanie Leonard is also an assistant planner. Brian McClure is a long range planner. And, then, our director -- our fearless leader Cameron Ariel is also here, so -- and, then, Bill Parsons and myself will be doing this presentation, kind if a tag team presentation with Bill Nary. He's not a community development staff member, but -- but he might as well be, because he spends a lot of time with us, so -- so, we are going to follow the noticed agenda. However, I just want you to know if we say anything -- and I'm speaking for both Bills right now, too -- please feel free to interrupt. If we say anything that intrigues you or you want some clarification on or questions on or whatever, this is meant more of a dialogue than a presentation. So, we are going to speak at you, but if you want to speak back, feel free at any time to jump in. That doesn't go for the peanut gallery, though. Just the people over here. So, if we have some time at the end I'm aware of a couple of issues, like parking standards, for instance, that we may want to get into if time allows. So, you know, it's not noticed on the agenda, but I do know there is an item or two like that that might be good to just feel each other out on some issues that -- particularly Planning and Zoning Commission may be running into that maybe want to talk to the Council about. So, if you can save those types of things for maybe the end. Again, time permitting. So, in jumping into the presentation and the difference, basically, between legislative -- or, sorry, between codes and policies. It's going to be pretty quiet, because I think everyone gets it, but we do want to reinforce the difference between policy -- and when I say policy, think of the Comprehensive Plan and, then, code. So, the Unified Development Code is the code that -- at least for the Planning and Zoning Commissioners you're primarily charged with dealing -- in dealing with, but there are 11 different titles in city code. But Title 11, the Unified Development Code, is one that typically the planning division works with. So, just, again, to reiterate -- and we had a similar discussion last week with the Mayor and City Council -- the comp plan is the guide for growth and development. So, strict adherence to the text is not required. It's not explicit and the language are more shoulds than shalls. And, in fact, I can't think of any shalls in the comp plan itself. But Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 7 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 3 of 48 it's still a very valuable planning document. It does set the stage for how the city should grow in development. So, we do put a lot of time and effort in interpreting it and applying it correctly. But, again, there is a little bit of subjectivity that goes into that process. I do want to just pause for a second and give you a couple of handouts that have been developed that kind of -- as a transition, then, from the policy side. As a handout to help both elected officials, as well as the general public, that kind of understand some of those differences as well. So, we have copies for everybody to take one. I believe the Planning and Zoning Commissioners already have a packet that was created for you that contains this information. But I do want to make sure everybody has a copy of the Comprehensive Plan. It's kind of an overview of the comp plan. And, then, future land use and zoning and the correlation, how do I get there. I'm looking at the comp plan. What does that mean for zoning designation. So, I think these are great tools that we have available. So, I am going to transition, then, into the Unified Development Code. Again, the UDC. So, this is not the exact opposite, but the clarifying statements I made before about explicit compliance. These are standards. These are the shalls. There isn't a lot of wiggle room, although I will say there is some gray area sometimes. It doesn't address it all of the time, but -- but this is the law. This is the code. So, when you're dealing with issues and you read the staff report, the difference between the comp plan in saying, oh, we have -- we have policies about this in the comp plan, it may or may not apply to that situation. If it's code related, we will apply it as staff, we will apply that in the staff report and there is very little wiggle room to say, well, we are just not going to apply that to you. If it's in the UDC it's something that -- that needs to be adhered to. So, there is a difference. But those are probably our two biggest tools that we use in our tool box to review projects as they are submitted to us for -- for general compliance with policies and codes. Here is another just diagram that kind of is meant to visually show you the difference there, too. So, policy -- again, for us the comp plan. Master plans, which we don't have a lot, but do have the Ten Mile interchange specific area plan. We have got a master plan for downtown say, specific area plans. Implementation. Again, I already talked about the Unified Development Code back in 2005 is zoning and subdivisions in one. But the subdivision ordinance in the UDC, as well as your zoning, conditional use permits, site and design reviews. So, again, very strict adherence. Standards based. So, that's kind of the first kickoff section. The first item on the agenda, just to reiterate the difference between policies and codes. So, we are going to kind of transition here I think a little bit and Bill Parson is going to take the next section. Item 4: The Differences Between Legislative and Quasi -Judicial Actions — Authority and Duties Parsons: Thank you, Caleb. Good evening, Mayor, Council, Members of the Commission. Thank you for having us this evening. Kind of what Caleb alluded to in his opening is that we have the UDC and that's kind of what we enforce or what we discuss with applicants when we pre -app with them. In that code the Council has given the Planning and Zoning Commission the authority to take action on certain applications and that's really what this particular slide is discussing. In our world the planning and zoning -- in the UDC anyways, the Planning and Zoning Commission is delegated the Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 8 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 4 of 48 responsibility to take action on conditional use permits. Just recently the Legal Department came forward and shared some changes to our street naming ordinance as well and so that was originally -- as it's currently written in our UDC the Council still has the jurisdiction over that -- the authority for street naming. With that current code adoption of Title 8, we will be coming forward with a future UDC amendment that shifts that responsibility from the City Council to our Planning and Zoning Commission and so that's really what this slide is pertaining to, as you guys delegate that through the UDC. Next slide, please. So, when we are talking about planning decisions, we have two actions. We have legislative and we have administrative. So, Caleb was talking about the comp plan and the adoption of the comp plan, that's really legislative type action where you guys are setting those policies and we make rules in the zoning ordinance that go along to enforce those policies and on the other side of things, with the administrative side of the process it's really how do we get that, how do we enforce that. We do that through land use applications. Next slide, please. So, on the right are some examples of what we see. So, we have one legislative. We have a Comprehensive Plan. We have text amendments that we bring to you on occasion. This specifies zoning regulations and subdivision regulations, but our code is what we call the Unified Development Code, so it's combined into one ordinance. Some -- some jurisdictions or some municipalities have those as two separate ordinances that they enforced, but back in 2005 the city moved forward with the current code that we are using and we unified those into one document that we share with the community. And, then, also think a lot of you are familiar with the Ten Mile specific area plan. Again, that was another legislative action that you took into consideration and adopted in 2007. On the administrative side of things, we have things like land use map amendments or Comprehensive Plan map amendments. That's typically parcel specific. We have annexations, rezones, again, as I mentioned to you the authority for the Planning and Zoning Commission, the conditional use permit process, variance, so really that coincides with the land use applications that we typically bring before both of these bodies. And so also in our code in Chapter 5 of the UDC we break down in our ordinance all of the land use applications that we process in our department and who the recommending bodies are and who their decision making body is and, then, whether they follow a public hearing process or an administrative process. The ones for your preview, as I mentioned to you, Planning and Zoning is the decision making body on a conditional use permit, unless the conditional use permit is concurrent with another application and the Council -- in our world, our business, we typically see multiple applications that come before you. A typical example of a conditional use permit may be a use -- for example, we have a C -G zone and someone wants a drive-thru next to another drive-thru, that will trigger a conditional use permit and that is -- goes before the Planning and Zoning Commission. But for some of our larger projects we will either have a plat going concurrently with the multi -family development, which requires a conditional use permit and, then, an annexation request. So, because all of those three applications are going on currently and because the decision making body in this case is the City Council on annexations and subdivisions and even comp plan amendments and those types of things, that conditional use permit is, then, forwarded on and the Planning and Zoning Commission becomes a recommending body and that is shared with the commission, they become the decision making body. So, again, the next slide Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 9 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 5 of 48 will demonstrate -- we have kind of highlighted some of these in red on -- as to what's the City Council purview and what the Planning and Zoning Commission's purview are. So, the other thing that we want to touch base -- and I think everyone in this room is familiar with, is how much level of scrutiny do we -- how much authority do we have over certain applications and I think this next slide does that. So, as we come before you with annexations -- and I think all of you have heard this before is we have the highest discretion level with annexations and rezones. In our UDC the -- the code affords us -- and even the state code affords us to require the developer to enter into a development agreement and that's really kind of the tool belt -- the tool that we use to enforce some offsite improvements or things that we try to mitigate infrastructure improvements that we need to happen and ensure that we are maintaining a certain level of service for our community, but also providing safe routes to schools, getting transportation infrastructure improvements. So, that -- and through that DA we set some of those off-site improvements. That's -- again, that's the highest level of discretion we can have. In our code we have to make findings for that and I will get into my presentation. In my presentation I will go over some of those findings that you have to make, but that's why when we come forward and we want to make sure that we are protecting the public's interest, we make sure that that DA is structured so that we get the most critical infrastructure improvements that we need, whether it be an off-site improvement for sidewalks, a pathway connection, a road widening project happening before it's programmed with ACHD, this is the time that we need to bring those issues to you and we typically have those in a development agreement. Now, as we head down this graphic, as to a conditional use permit -- now they are still -- you still have some latitude, there is some discretion there to enforce certain -- or add some conditions that otherwise aren't allowed in the code and I will share that in a moment with you on another slide that I did. But as you tend to go farther and farther down on this graphic we lose the ability to require more and more things. We lose our discretion and our purview. So, I share this regularly with the Planning and Zoning Commission. Let's say, for example, we come in -- a recent example, we come in, we have a concept plan on a project and it shows a subdivision, but they aren't proposing a subdivision. So, we typically have a development agreement that says generally comply with the concept plan and so we give them zoning and we have that contract in place. Now, as they come in and submit their subdivision and they -- and you -- and we look at the development agreement and we say that this subdivision does comply with the DA and they are not proposing any amendment to the DA, all we can look at is what is in the subdivision, in our code, and apply those like rules and regulations. We can't, then, say, well, it's annexation, we didn't get this road connection and now we are in here with a subdivision and we are making them have a condition to connect a road a quarter of a mile away or a pathway, that's -- or sidewalk that's a quarter mile down the road, we can't do that -- we should have done that analysis or caught that at the annexation process, not when we get down to the platting process. And, then, as we get down into the site and design of the plan -- so, basically, that's the UDC level, the design review level. Again, all we are looking for at that point is we are doing a check -- we have a checklist or -- we have a site compliance checklist that we use in our office and that tells us which codes to apply in certain situations. We go through that, we go through the code, the certain code -- sections of the code and we apply that to that site design. So, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 10 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 6 of 48 if they meet everything that code requires, we basically approve the project. But, again, if there is something in the annexation or something in the DA at that point that triggers some kind of off-site improvement, again, we want to get that on the front end, not wait until we get to the back end of the project where we are down at the end of the funnel and to the site plan review and we can't actually enforce something, because we missed it during the zoning of the property. So, on this particular case this -- this right here is the adopted findings that we have in the UDC and I won't go into all of them tonight, but I did highlight number five and I think that's a very important one for all of us to take into consideration. As you know, Meridian is rapidly growing, the economy has turned around. We are seeing more and more projects and, really, this becomes more and more instrumental to our community. We have to make that finding -- all of us have to make the finding is this in the best interest of the city when we are looking at these projects. As you know, we always have certain levels of developers in our communities, some that want to raise the bar and do the bar minimum and we have others that want to do the bare minimum. Well, at annexation and rezones, if the applicant is proposing bear minimum, you can say, sorry, we don't want that, we want you to raise the bar. You have got the development agreement open, we want something more than the bare minimum. But if we have a DA that's in place and they are not opening up and a subdivision comes in and it meets the bare minimum, it has the ten percent, again, we lose some of that ability as staff as well to say, okay, now we want more. Well, we -- we didn't address that in the development agreement. So, again, with any annexation or rezone, if there is a development agreement and it's opened up and you're taking action on that or you have the ability to say this isn't in the best interest of the city unless you do these things and you don't have to approve it. You have some latitude, some discretion there with that process. Hood: Just maybe one more thing to highlight that. I have heard over the last couple of years even a developer will come up and say, well, we need to amend the DA, we already have R-15 zoning, so we can do 15. Look, our underlying zoning entitles us to that. Well, that's true, you have a DA that says it's limiting to this. So, your zoning doesn't trump the DA. The DA would trump the zoning in that case. So, just be aware of that. Sometimes there is -- you know, you do get entitlements with zoning, but the development agreement really, again, trumps anything that you would otherwise be outright allowed by right or use in the zoning code. So, it's tough for staff to jump in and clarify when the applicant's out there saying, well, we have this zoning, you know, we are vested with the zoning -- well, no, the DA says you're vested with what the DA says. You got the zoning, but -- so just -- again, just to hopefully reinforce what -- what Bill just said that you have the most discretion with development agreements and annexations and rezones. Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Members of the Commission, that other thing that comes up often in front of us I just -- as Caleb was talking about that is developers come in and, well, we did everything, so we don't need this DA anymore. Well, the DA is the continuing obligation to maintain all of the things that are contained within it. So, to eliminate it because -- their statement normally is we have put in the landscaping, we already have all the irrigation in, everything is done, we don't need this Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 11 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 7 of 48 anymore, let's eliminate it. It leaves us, again, vulnerable, because, again, the zoning does have some control, but the DA has greater control. So, eliminating the development agreement -- I can't think of more than once or twice in the time I have been here that we have ever agreed to that condition or that request to simply delete the DA, because, again, it's your only tool -- mechanism and occasionally as some of these projects get older, some of that -- some of those requirements in that DA will need to be replaced or repaired and that's your mechanism sometimes to be able to force that and make that happen. If you don't have that you may not have any tool in which to require those anymore. Parsons: And this slide here represents something that's -- that regularly happens when we bring forward DA modifications to you. Typical conditions that we, as staff, try to put in a development agreement is our code -- with annexation or rezone our code requires that we get some sort of concept plan that shows street layout, connectivity, that shows the types -- the building layouts, the parking lot, those things so that we can provide you with enough information to make a decision whether or not this is in the best interest of the city. This is one of those products where the graphic on the right -- or, excuse me, the left was an office park that was tied to a development agreement, a concept plan, and, then, the graphic on the right is what they came back and amended that development agreement. Now, our code allows developers to amend the development agreement, but, again, these don't go to Planning and Zoning Commission, these strictly go to the City Council. So, again, if -- any time that we come forward and you don't -- the Commission -- or, excuse me, the Council doesn't feel that this development -- or the concept plan is equal to or better than the previous plan, it is within your purview to say this isn't in the best interest of the city to change its plan. We like the previous plan -- version better and you have that discretion to say, no, we don't - - we don't like this version, we like what we have approved back in '09 and I have heard this Council do that before where they liked office use better and didn't approve a multi- family development. So, again, there is your tool -- there is your discretion to say, you know, we don't -- this isn't in the best interest to change this plan. As Bill Nary mentioned, a lot of times the developers -- again, like he said, they think they have met all their conditions, they want to get rid of these agreements and they run with the land and that's why we want to make sure that we set us up for success, but also for you when we bring forth these applications to you. Certainly public testimony does play into that as well, but just for your information, when we look at this we try to analyze that for you in the staff report to give you all the information you need in order to say does this plan even -- is better than the previous plan. And so going into more of what the Planning and Zoning Commission does as far as -- in relationship to a conditional use permit, a lot of times when we are at the public hearing we do hear neighbors kind of talking about schools and traffic and some of those general concerns that we hear during the conditional use process. But in on our code it says very clear that when you're making action on this there is standards you need to apply to make sure that the conditional use meets certain obligations and certainly we want to make sure it doesn't impact the adjacent property owner. Again, we can control timing and sequence of uses. We have done that in the past where we have approved a conditional use permit and we said it's good for five years and, then, you come back and reapply if -- if you Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 12 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 8 of 48 want to continue it. The other one is -- again, as Caleb mentioned, it assures that certain property is maintained. But the biggest one that I want to point out is number seven and that's where the Planning and Zoning Commission has the ability to require something that's more restrictive than what's required by the code. A lot of times as we discuss -- again, when we get to that planning process, that subdivision, we go back to that one slide where you have discretion at zoning -- annexation and zoning and DA modifications, but now as we slip down and we get through that subdivision, we don't have that discretion, but with a conditional use permit you have some latitude to make -- add conditions to those to make sure that certain off-site improvements or certain conditions are being met to mitigate any circumstances that you see -- you deem fit and I think one of the recent examples was where we came forward and they were kind of expanding a storage yard on the adjacent property and one of the zoning -- Planning and Zoning Commissioners asked me if we could require fencing to be extended on the adjacent property. Absolutely. If you want that design esthetic and you thought that protected that use up against the -- the adjacent property, you have the ability to float that fencing and require that that fencing be constructed on that property, too, so it was a cohesive design and mitigated against that residential use that's there. So, you -- you have some of that in your tool belt. I don't want you to ever think that if code doesn't allow something you shouldn't do it. We shouldn't do that, we should make sure that the conditions are still legal and consult with our legal department to make sure that the condition you're placing on a project meets the intent of the code and meets the intent of that project. But you have some latitude to -- to add something that's generally more restrictive than code. Hood: So, as we established, I'm not in the Legal Department, as Bill is not in the Community Development Department, but I do want to piggyback a little bit on that and this hasn't been a concern to me, but a lot of times when -- there needs to be some nexus or correlation to a condition you're considering imposing on a developer. There has to be something, either through the public comment period that comes up or -- or maybe it's a department concern or whatever that's raised, but this isn't just free latitude to say, you know what, a mile away there is this problem, we need you to go fix it. Well, that may or may not have anything -- if it does have something to do with their project you can, but you need to be able to establish that connection between the impact that they are having and you want to mitigate that by doing something else that isn't prescriptive in code and, again, I haven't seen that to be a problem, but we don't want it to become one. There needs to be an nexus or, again, a correlation between any condition you're going to impose on a conditional use permit or even annexation and zoning. A lot of discretion in annexation and zoning. But I would recommend -- and, again, I'm not the attorney -- there be some correlation there. They don't have to sign that contract. They don't have to sign the development agreement if they don't like the terms. But, generally, you want to have something that they are proposing that you're trying to mitigate for both within the realm of, you know, reasonability, if you will, or some -- a nexus. Nary: So, I guess I am the attorney, so I will add the point the -- most of the time -- and it hasn't been a real concern -- most of the time the developers -- or the property Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 13 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 9 of 48 developer is very amenable to things that they may or may not be required to do, but the only cases predominantly that get to the United States Supreme Court that are related to Planning and Zoning all relate to this exact topic and what happens most of the time is they will raise it to you at Planning and Zoning, they will raise it at the Council, they will raise it to legal counsel, they will raise it to the planners and they will say you can't make me do this or you can't use that as a reason not to annex me and so we will have that conversation. But some of those cases that have gotten to the higher courts, they were kind of amenable, but the record wasn't very clear and, then, by the time it got to the point of building it, they weren't the owners anymore, somebody else was who didn't want to build that. So, if you're going to have someone do something, definitely rely on legal counsel, rely on the planners and make sure the record is very clear, but, again, most of the time it hasn't come up here, we really don't do off-site improvements that aren't related to the project or aren't related to the uses that the project is going to occur, but, occasionally, those issues will come up, but not likely you're going to see it very often and if you do you're definitely going to have somebody pounding on that table saying you can't make me do that. De Weerd: Well -- and I think that's what makes it important that whoever is making the motion specifically spells it out -- Nary: Absolutely. De Weerd: -- as a comment and it hasn't been recently, it's been some time ago, but the applicant stood in front of us and in response to the neighbors had said, well, I will do this and this and this and this -- if it's not in the findings they are not going to have to do it, even though they said. So, as you're making the motion to remember to include that specifically in there. It helps for that record, so that if that -- that entitlement passes on to the next person they're not going to have that institutional knowledge and they will want to know what conditions came along with that piece of property, so they are prepared to provide it. Nary: Absolutely. De Weerd: Just for clarity. Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Question for you or Mr. Nary. To your point, are you -- is it legal or is staff looking for us to outline those specific things that the applicant said or is in our motion including applicant testimony sufficient, because there is a big difference between the two of those. De Weerd: And there is and I don't know how staff does it sometimes when they -- when the motion is: And to include all staff, applicant, and public testimony. What on earth are you including? The kitchen sink? And was that really what you intended. I would think that for the record and for staff's benefit to be specific, especially if it's not in the staff report. If it's something that can -- and I guess I would defer to -- to staff on Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 14 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 10 of 48 that, but if the applicant stands up and says, well, I will provide this and -- in response to what the public has testified, I think you need to really make sure to specify that. Nary: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I maybe can answer that. What think the staff here -- especially in the Planning and Zoning Department, are very good at understanding where we are, because, you're right, there are occasions when -- when you have agreed to approve it based on what everybody said and none of them agree to any of it. That it's a little -- it's a little more challenging. But you -- you have seen it many times where the staff will come back and say as to this particular point is that -- is this what you mean? Is this particular point is this what you mean. I'm not going to say there aren't occasions that at the very tail end of a conversation when the developer will say, okay, fine, I do will it. And, then, that gets missed in the findings. So, we will bring that back sometimes in front of you and, hopefully, we will catch it in the minutes to be able to say, oh, we didn't specifically address that. They sort of threw it in at the very end and it kind of got missed or forgotten or they threw it in the very beginning and it got missed or forgotten in a three hour hearing. So, we do try to verify all of those findings, because the Mayor is absolutely correct, what's in the findings is what is required. What they said in a meeting may be -- may be required from an ethical standpoint, but, legally, I can't enforce that. So, we want to make sure that it's clear in the findings, clear in the DA and, occasionally, again, staff will come back to you to say this wasn't clear, is this what you meant, or sometimes subsequent to the meeting the developer will say, well, this is what I heard and the staff will say, well, that's not what I heard. So, let's bring it back and verify that before we finalize it. So, we do try very hard to make sure it gets done right up front, so that we aren't later saying how did we miss that. Hood: Just before Bill continues on, I mean we aren't trying to be rude when we -- at the end of a motion or any clarification, does that include, what's this, does it include that -- type of a thing. We do -- as an example, though, kind where maybe we need to do a better job as staff is elevations say. There is pretty pictures that are submitted, they are on the record, like, you know, generally comply with these elevations. We make reference to them, but there may be changes or tweaks. It's usually the pictures or the presentation that's brought to that meeting that we look at when it comes to design review, making sure they comply with those -- the pretty pictures they brought, you know, to Planning and Zoning Commission and/or City Council versus maybe what their building permit is asking to do. I will just mention for Councilman Cavener, but for the rest of you, we had a little bit more coaching on this as we go through this presentation later in the agenda, maybe some ideas on how you can help us help you and make sure that we have a complete record and the findings include everything. So, if we could maybe put a pin in that, there may be a little bit more kind of tricks of the trade that -- that we can all improve on that. Parsons: I'm just going to wrap up very quickly, but this -- again, this slide here just demonstrates the approved findings that we have to make and you have to make when you are taking action on -- the Commission has to make when they are taking action on a conditional use permit. But, typically, what we will do is if they -- if all these projects Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 15 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 11 of 48 go, the staff report or the annexation, the plat and the conditional use are all concurrent, all of these findings are in our staff report and we typically have those in Exhibit D of the staff report. So, last several pages toward the end of the staff report is where you will find those findings. I will turn it over to Mr. Nary for the next portion. Item 5: Ex -Parte Communications and Open Meeting Laws Nary: Thank you. Again, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Commission, so, again, as we just spoke about, the finding of facts and conclusions of law, all of those things, those are the -- that's the agreement. That's the final word on what's required and mandated by the action the Council has taken or in the case of a CUP, the action that the Commission has taken and what they are required to do. So, again, clarity, you know, want to make sure it says what it says. Again, the staff report many times -- again, the staff has prepared a report for the Planning and Zoning Commission to the Council as to what the findings and direction was, so when they are asking you are you support -- supportive of what the staff report says, that's what they mean, it's all those specific findings. If there is changes we want to make sure it's clear. Go to the next one. So, here is the lawyer part that's such a giant bummer for everybody and, I'm sorry, because this quasi-judicial piece is very unique to the Local Land Use Planning Act, which is, then, unique to the councils and commissions and how you do your business and like this slide tries to portray, is, again, all of these different rules courts -- the courts in Idaho have weighed in on on why they think it's important. But let me give you the bigger picture why it's important. It's trying to create a level playing field for everybody. So, quasi-judicial for those who kind of forget what's the difference between that and legislative, quasi-judicial means it affects, essentially, one party. I mean it affects the neighbor, it effects the adjoining property owner, but it affects the use of the property of the of one or multiple individuals, but one property owner. That's what makes it quasi-judicial, because you're making decisions about how they can use their property and the courts have looked at all of those things in those boxes there to making sure that the playing field was level. One of the things all of you have experienced, especially for the Council members, is that the public doesn't understand any of those things. What they think is I see you in the grocery store and I voted for you and I want you to listen to me about this project and we have advised a number of times -- I know all of you heard me or one of my cohorts tell you, the best answer you can give them is this is not the place for that. We have a public process. We have a public hearing. Please come to the public hearing. Please give us your information. I want to hear it. I can't hear it here. Because, first, it's just me. As a council member you have no authority by yourself. It is only as a group. Which is why we, then, have a meeting to have that discussion and a vote. Also if you were to pose the same question back to the member of the public and say if it's okay with you, if I meet with you, is it okay with you that I go and met with the developer by themself and hear their side of it? My guess is the answer is always going to be no. No, we don't want you to do that. So, the intent of the code, of the law, is to make sure it's level for everybody, that the opportunity to know what you're talking about, who said it, what's it related to, is it relevant, is it relative to the project -- those are all the things that the public open meeting is supposed to flush out. So, the courts have said into real detail on quasi - Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 16 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 12 of 48 judicial what -- what is and what I don't want the message to be as well. If you cover all of that in the grocery store, like who was there, how many people, what did you talk about, all of that, then you're good, because, one, it's impossible to do that daily every day. It's much easier -- because the public doesn't understand the difference -- to simply say that's why we have a meeting. Please come. Please show up. Send us in writing. Whatever you want to do, we want to hear. So, then, everyone hears it at the same time. This is not the same as simply knowing where projects are. There are some cases that talk about commissions or council members going out to the site and I have always advised Council and Commission -- I'm not saying you can't drive by it or -- we live in a town that you know where it is or you live near it, that's fine. I mean you might want to make that note on the record, but there is nothing to prohibit you from driving down the street and knowing there is something there. What happens -- and what has happened is the same type of thing as this -- having a conversation in the grocery store, is Council or Commission members have decided I will go out there myself, I will walk around, I will look at the surrounded houses, maybe I will talk to the guy over the fence and now they have done their own research and they can't do that, because they can't -- no one is there to witness it, nobody knows what they looked at. Again, it all has to be done in the meeting, because the intent is to make sure it's fair for both sides, the people opposed to it, as well as the people in favor of it, and so you hear us harp about it a lot. The reason is this is one of those areas that can get it all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court or the Idaho Supreme Court and they will say you did it wrong, do it over, and as you can understand, the cost and expense and time of doing it over, after it's been sitting in a court for two, three or four years, can be tremendous on both the property owners, as well as the public. Again, the rules -- conflict of interest. You know, those are the ones that are really specific in the code. When the code talks about conflict of interest, they are always talking about some type of gain, not just a personal gain, but, actually, a financial gain to the individual participating. So, always ask -- if you are concerned, always asking if you have an issue. You know, are you getting something from it, do you have a relative that works there or spouse, whatever. You know, we want to know, because, again, you should -- if you should excuse yourself we need to know that up front. Unbiased. And this was a little bit trickier in the legal sense and this is the best way I can explain it. Everyone has some bias of something. So, we are not talking about -- I don't like the color blue or I don't like to -- I don't like to, you know, go to football games or movies or whatever, they are talking about bias where you have a preconceived notion about something no matter what is presented to you. And, again, it's trying to, again, create a level playing field. The purpose of sitting in those chairs, whether you're an elector or volunteer, is to give the people the opportunity to tell you what they think. If you can honestly weigh it and consider it. It doesn't mean that if you don't like certain things or certain types of projects that they can't convince you, but I would be hesitant for anyone in your position to ever say I will never vote for this, I would never agree to that, I would never do it, because, again, you're trying to make sure that the opportunity for that input and dialogue is there and that's one that's a little -- like I said, is a little bit more tenuous or difficult to do. Ex -party contacts, again, that's the one we talked about -- Yearsley: Bill? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 17 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 13 of 48 Nary: Yes. Yearsley: Have a quick question. On the conflict of interest, you have there is step down, no participation in the proceedings. As -- as a commissioner if I have something that's affecting my subdivision or my surrounding neighborhood, can I step down and actually testify towards that or do I need to go to like the City Council? What is the procedure for that? Nary: That's a great question, Commissioner Yearsley, and there is no -- there is no clarity to that specifically. What I suggest to folks often is if they can identify that ahead of time -- what I think is very awkward -- and part of it is the public's perception of that -- is to say, for example, in what you're talking about, this item is number four on the list of items for tonight and you're going to hear all these other ones, everyone sits in the audience and they hear the debate and discussion and we get Item 4, you recuse yourself and you walk right to that podium and make a statement. I don't know that the public perceives that it's going to receive the same weight as everyone else's. So, that's a perception issue, that's not necessary something you can fix. But that's something that would be a good conversation up front on how do I address this. I do want -- I want to speak on it, you have a right as a citizen to speak on it, you have a right as a citizen to make sure it's clear I'm not speaking on behalf of myself as a commissioner, I'm speaking on behalf of myself as an individual. I live there. This is why I have an interest, whatever that is. We would just like to have the opportunity to provide some -- some guidance maybe on how to make that to make sure, again, it doesn't feel like, yeah, you might have stepped off of this one, but, boy, everybody saw you before and now it doesn't feel quite like it's the same as everybody else and it's tricky and we have had that come up a couple of times over the years and that's usually what we have tried to talk through is how do we make sure that it doesn't appear to create greater value to one person for everybody else in the room. Yearsley: All right. Thank you. De Weerd: Did anyone else have a question or a comment? Nary: So, here we talked about open meetings, public hearings, and the decision. Okay? So, again, the open meeting we all know quorums are required, public notice, no sequential meetings and meetings are open to the public. All of that, you know, sometimes can get very tricky and over the years -- the way I have tried to advise folks on that is you have to ask yourself is this a meeting and what that means is under the code is this a meeting of the body with an intent to deliberate to make a decision; right? It doesn't mean you all went to the BSU game -- although I have never been to one. guess people do go to those things. You all went to the BSU game and somebody said, hey, that -- we got that hearing next week, that's going to be a real bear, is everybody ready for that? That's not a meeting. You know, you didn't deliberate on anything. Well, what I would be concerned with if you had a quorum of people at the BSU game and they said, you know, we have got this hearing next week on this subject, what do Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 18 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 14 of 48 you guys think? Have you read the stuff? This is really concerning. Now it wasn't ever supposed to be a meeting and now we have it into a meeting. So, we have always advised avoid that when you can. Don't create an appearance that, again, the conversation is occurring outside the public's view. The whole purpose is to have that very conversation in the meeting on the record in front of everyone. So, those kind of issues are really critical on how we can defend that we, again, we didn't make this outside -- and, again, to answer the sequential meeting, what that's trying to do is get away from -- and this happens -- don't kid yourself, this happens in a lot of places, because I hear it -- one council member will call another and say what about this, which is fine. Then, council member number two will call number three and say one and two of us think this, what do you think. And all of a sudden they have all had this conversation, all of it fairly innocently or they believe and yet they have really made a decision and really kind of vetted it out without anybody seeing it. We discourage it. It's not really what the code entails and I think at some point we are going to get more specific case law about it, but it does exist out there. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Sorry to interrupt. Bill, wouldn't it be better just -- the clear direction is never ever do that. Nary: Yes. I mean it's just -- yes. When asked I always say don't do it. And, again, the reason is that's the easiest way you could have for me to defend it. We don't do that. That -- you know, if that doesn't go on we don't have that happen. Again, a decision on the transcribable record. Again, that's a clear concern, a requirement. You know, we do have a transcription of our meetings, which really helps, because we don't have to go create that later. So, that's another thing that we in Meridian do that I think is a more efficient use of our resources by doing that. Again, the Attorney General -- that's an old picture of him. That's not how he looks today. But we were classmates, so he's not going to be too upset with me. But, again, the whole intent is having the meetings in the public, making sure the public has an opportunity to hear what the discussion is. A few -- a number of years ago I was involved in Leadership Meridian and we did a government day and we did something like a mock hearing and a mock public hearing and when we got done the folks in the class were like -- they were supposed to be city council members or commission and they are like, oh, where did we go to talk about it? It's like right there. Right in front of everybody. Right in front of all the people that are really mad at you two seconds ago, you need to tell them they are wrong or you disagree or whatever you want to say. But all of it's in the open. There is no secret ballots or any of those things. And those things are really difficult to do, but that's the reality, that's what the courts and what the law requires us to do. Again, all of things -- noticing and all of that stuff we try to take care of up front, so that you don't have to worry about that. Again, occasionally, it does come up, so we do, you know, have to -- sometimes, whether it's Madam Mayor or the chair of the Commission say we are going to have to raise this issue up now, because this has come up, we want to make sure Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 19 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 15 of 48 people understand this notice was proper, this is why it was done -- thankfully it's not snowing this year, we won't have as many of those as we did before. Again what's a meeting? Like I said, whenever that question has come up to us or to me, that's my first go to. Was this a meeting. Again, talking to someone in the hallway is not a meeting. Going to AIC is not a meeting. Going to have lunch together -- a couple of council members -- is not a meeting. Those things -- that's not what the law was trying to do. But you can make it into one -- unintentionally I think most of the time -- by creating those things and like Council Member Borton said, you know, whenever possible just avoid that. You know, just avoid doing those things, so we don't have this discussion later on what's allowed or what's not allowed. These are -- yeah. I mean these are some examples we have used. Ex -parte info. Again, this is one of those that we are going to see more of today. I think the law is going to evolve greatly in this area, because there is so many more means in which for people to contact you and give you an opinion. Ten years ago, 15 years ago, there wasn't a whole lot of ways for them to talk to you. You know, they called your land line that was in the phone book or they showed up at a meeting or they wrote you a letter. You know, there wasn't a whole lot of ways of commenting between Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and whatever else exists out there today and will be here tomorrow, there is a lot of ways to get that input. Again, it's always the best advice I can give you is direct it to the record. Send it to the clerk. Make sure it gets in the record. Again, to assure the public you have heard them. You're assuring them this is part of our record, you know, because you're going to read it, that's a given, we want to make sure it gets included, so that it isn't only one person that received it, but everyone has the benefit of it. But I can definitely see it's an evolving area. I know the other municipal attorneys -- the last few years all of our meetings -- there is always a section about how do people deal with all of these different methods and means in which people contact folks and have conversations that never existed a year ago or three years ago. So, I know it's going to evolve, but whenever possible send it to the clerk, get it in the record, then, at least you're covered that way. And, again, the Idaho Supreme Court has talked about this in the past. Again, when the governing body deviates from the record, essentially conducting a second fact gathering. So, again, at any cost always try to get it back to the record. That's your saving grace. That's your shield you did it right. So, what if you do it wrong? So, the open meeting law is not only, if violated, is the action void, it potentially is criminal that you can be charged criminally for doing it. What's the remedy for that? You can always do it over. So, never -- in my opinion -- and this is -- this is my -- if there is a question of the open meeting law being violated, do it over. It's the safest method to fix it. Because there is no penalty and nothing bad happens if you do it again. If you want to hold tight that we didn't do anything wrong, it's perfectly fine if you didn't. The problem is you may not always know until the court tells you later you did it wrong and, then, you got to do it again. So, if there is any question that it wasn't noticed properly, there was some action that was done improperly, there was anything tainting to this record, it is safer and easier to do it over now than to do it over later. It doesn't come up very often, but, you know, the occasion we have ever had it since I have been here we have been able to fix it and address it and I always -- I always address no one in my opinion -- and I think AIC's counsel would agree with me -- should ever get charged with this, because you Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 20 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 16 of 48 can fix it before anybody gets charged with committing a crime, you can just do it over. That's what I would do. Item 6: Running Successful Meetings Hood: That's it. So, we are going to transition, then, to Item No. 6 on the agenda. So, that was ex -parte communications, open meeting laws. So, if there was any further clarification or questions -- if not I'm going to go through successful meetings. I'm not going to read the slide to you, but just to highlight a couple of things. Under four, subsection five, take -- the taking notes part. I know some of you are better than others, maybe, and I'm not the best notetaker myself, but, again, to kind of circle back on the question of making it in the record and the findings and conditions of approval, if you're the motion maker it sure would be nice to have those notes and say I heard the applicant pledge to do this, that, and the other thing, that's part of my motion. You know, if you had it written down, that's certainly going to help. So, not a requirement, but take some notes, maybe jot them down of, hey, I heard the applicant say this or I heard -- I really picked up on Joe Blow wanted a fence there and I'm including that, that this needs to be this type of fence instead of that type of fence. Whatever. So, that -- that certainly can help. Not necessarily with the meeting proceedings, but post meeting and, again, the record. Cavener: Madam Mayor? Hood: And feel free to ask for clarification. That's another part -- De Weerd: Caleb, hold off for a sec. Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Madam Mayor, a question for you, Caleb, or for Bill. If we are taking notes on an application, doesn't that become part of the record and, if so, how are we supposed to be delivering those so those -- the record is being reported? Nary: I don't think -- let's take that first. So, yes, but it's a transitory record. So, again, if you're making a record, for example, that you're just a -- okay. Let's say you're taking notes, they talked about a fence, they talked about this, that, or whatever, so I want to make sure I include that in my motion, that's the transitory record. We have in our recordkeeping -- or our record retention schedule those don't have to be retained. So, those are fine. But if -- if there is something beyond just I'm trying to keep track of all the various testimony and something more than that, then, I would definitely ask the Council or staff in a meeting, you know, is this something we need -- I need to get to the clerk or is this something I can just throw it away. Hood: Just the other thing that I wanted to highlight on -- on this slide in particular is sort of number five. It's also sort of -- during the public hearing, you know, actively listening and asking questions. Sometimes an applicant or anyone in the public can bring up something that they are considering in either their proposal, their project. For example, someone says I need a hundred lots if I'm going to make this project -- if I'm Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 21 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 17 of 48 going to make money and not lose money I need a hundred units. I paid X for the land, it's going to cost me X to develop it, here is how much it costs me to build the house, I can't lose those five lots. I'm not going to make money. That's not something that you're concerned with. That's not in the UDC, that's not in the comp plan that a developer makes -- you know, that's not our concern when we are looking at the project. So, not that they -- they can't tell you what's going to pencil out, but I would advise you against asking them, hey, if we were to lose four lots would your project still pencil? Can you -- are you still making money if we -- instead of five lots if you lost four will you still be there? That's the -- those are the types of questions that can get us into trouble - - those lines of questioning. Now, again, if they said -- you know, if they just disclose that in their presentation or in a question saying I need this many lots to make it pencil, you could ask clarifying question about that potentially, but you shouldn't base your decision on whether or not someone is making money or losing money. That's their -- they don't have to go forward with the project. So, that's been brought to our attention recently and, again, I don't know if that helps or not, but I would just -- you know, money -- I'm not saying money is not an object. It is. But it isn't our primary concern when dealing with -- with land use applications, so -- Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Caleb, I know a couple times we have asked like what price range, especially when we have been dealing with apartments, not so much to know what the developer is going to make, but to know kind of -- what we are -- we are looking at, what their view is. Hood: And Madam Mayor, Council Woman Little Roberts, I would -- I would advise you against asking those types of questions as well. The Fair Housing Act, those types of things, we should not be asking, you know, how much are you going to charge, who is going to live there, you know -- now, they can offer that. I can say, hey, my houses are starting at 250 or my rent is going to start at 1,200 or whatever. But, again, I could read into that -- if you're asking the question and you're thinking, oh, is this low income housing, oh, you're going to be subsidized or that -- we don't want those people living there. Just based on the question itself we could potentially be liable depending on which direction, you know, it goes, either way I guess. Again, I would advise not to ask any questions and I'm not -- I'm not the attorney, but I would -- I would highly advise you from asking questions like that. We do have -- in our code we do have requirements for a certain minimum square footage in a couple of our zoning designations and that's a fair question, you can even ask who the building teams are going to be. But I would -- I would, again, advise against price points. They can -- they can give that information, I just -- I wouldn't ask it. Little Roberts: Thank you. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 22 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 18 of 48 Hood: I didn't -- it's been on this slide for a while, but, again, I don't feel like I need to read that to you. I don't feel like our -- either one of your meetings are unsuccessful, but just give you a refresher. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: So, we can say is this going to be a Hubble or Corey Barton any -- whatever building team. Hood: I don't have a problem with that. Palmer: I mean we have asked that and so -- I mean sometimes it's super obvious and I have really wanted to ask, but -- Nary: I guess the only -- the only issue I really have is, again, everything all of you ask, react, don't react, pay attention to, don't pay attention to in the course of a meeting, means something to someone. So, I don't know if the intention of asking that is a good thing or a bad thing and so I think asking about the type of development and the quality of the materials and the type of materials and those kinds of things are very fair, because what it looks like is one of the things you have to consider, but all of those developers -- we have developers -- and I can name a dozen of them, like everybody else here probably, and they build a variety of different products, all different price points, all different styles, depending on where they are building it at. So, I know what -- I know what I would mean if I was asking that question in Meridian of a particular developer, but, to be honest, the developer could say, well, I build a different thing here than I build over there versus over there -- I don't know what -- you know, is the matter. I think it's much fairer to say, well, what's this going to look like? I mean, again, you showed me a picture, is that what you're meaning? Is this -- is this what you're going to build, because oftentimes -- or not often, but occasionally it doesn't look like the picture and so that's a much fairer question, because that gives you a better sense of types of housing, diversity of housing, sizes, different quality levels of construction, those kinds of things. But, yeah, I mean I don't see anything wrong with that, I just -- I have a feeling at some point someone is going to say, well, what do you mean by that and that's hard to articulate in a meeting. Hood: And just -- Madam Mayor, I -- just to piggyback on that a little bit. Depending on the answer, my concern would be if you denied a project, potentially, because of their answer, then, I think maybe we have some problems with that. If they said, oh, it's a builder you don't like and you made the motion to deny it, now are we -- and, again, we talked about discretion already, how much discretion do you have, but that's probably not a very good reason. If you're back to the types of materials and what it's going to look like, that's fine, but if you say I recommend it now, because that's your builder -- that doesn't make me super comfortable on a reason to deny a project. But if you're just Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 23 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 19 of 48 trying to find the information about the project, that's fine, but I think that could be taken too far, but I'm not -- De Weerd: So, Caleb, you -- when they show you elevations, those are part of the findings and they are what you look at when they come in for a building permit, because it hasn't always been that way. We will see a product at City Council and, then, see it get built and you think that's not what we looked at. Hood: Yeah. Madam Mayor. So, what -- what you typically see or -- is a collage of different types of houses and sometimes they can be very different architecturally. I mean all over the place with, you know, style and materials and everything. A lot of residential builders anyways. Yeah. Generally we have design review for all commercial buildings and industrial buildings to some degree and so we can -- we do a very good job, I think, of making sure that what you see for a commercial project is, essentially, the same. For residential we are primarily looking for those lots or the buildings that are on arterials or collectors that are next to common lots and that's where we look at, again, what's in the record, what did they propose to us. But that, again, you're looking at six or eight or ten or 12 different homes and we are looking at something on a set of plans in 2D and a picture of something in 3-D going, well, it's got that from that one and this from that one, but here -- just as an example, if none of the houses they showed had, you know, six inch eaves and now what we are looking at is a box with six inch eaves and we would go, eh, this isn't -- this isn't what you -- the spirit of the elevations you showed us. We aren't expecting them to build that six -- same six houses 200 times over again, but, again, there is things we pull out of that when we are doing our informal design review. We generally -- we say generally those are consistent with the elevations presented. I do want to clarify, though, we do not have the staff resources -- we do over a hundred single family permits a month -- to go through every single lot and make sure that they are exactly the same as what was presented. But we do -- I think we still do some -- some spot checks, but, again, we are primarily concerned with those homes that are most visible to the general public on collectors, arterials, or if you are adjacent to a common open space and I would defer to Bill a little bit on -- if there is a percentage of the hundred or so that we get a month -- I don't know how many of those we actually look at and do the full review and I don't know -- sorry to put you on the spot. Do we know approximately how many that is? Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and Members of the Planning and Zoning Commission, I would probably speculate about ten percent. If you recall, Caleb came before you -- I don't know -- what, about six months ago and asked the Council if they wanted us to continue to do that -- take that effort on and it was unanimous -- unanimous that you wanted us to do that, so what we did -- or what we do, just to let all of you know what we do, is we, basically, when a subdivision gets recorded and we address it, we generate what's called a building restriction form. So, on that building restriction form we go back to our approved findings and we verify which lot and blocks are adjacent to those arterial collector roadways and common lots and, then, we put that as a condition -- a special requirement on that building in restriction form, so our building division team knows -- they route every single family home to us, so right now Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 24 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 20 of 48 we have dedicated staff that look at those and pull up those building restriction forms. So, we look at every single one of the single family homes that come into the office, they are routed to us from building, and, then, we open that building restriction form and we verify whether or not that requires us to scrutinize that elevation or do that informal design review. If it is, then, we do open up the elevations and we actually stamp them approved with our stamp, that we reviewed and approved them per that building restriction form. If it's not one of those lots and blocks, we just sign off on it to comply with the building restriction form and we don't stamp the plan. So, I say -- I would -- would guess it's roughly ten percent. De Weerd: Well, that's helpful to know and if you need specificity in what we are -- we are thinking we are getting, that probably should be part of the motion, because I sat in the same living room you did with some neighbors that were looking at a product that wasn't what was expected and that's -- that's difficult. So, it's not just what we are thinking is going to be there, it's also what the neighbors are thinking are going to be there as well and if there needs to be more specifics in some regards, that would be helpful to know what kind of specifics you're looking for. Nary: And, Madam Mayor, you know, we have had a lot of -- we have had lessons learned about some of the projects from some of the developers from those unfortunate circumstances where -- De Weerd: We have learned. Nary: -- if someone gave us three examples of what they build and what they really meant was one and they built one house over and over and over again. But, again, we have dealt with those folks in subsequent ones and we have also had a very good relationship with our building community to be able to -- to be able from the staff side say Council is going to want more than that, you know, or the staff is going to be telling the Commission or the Council, well, we are not getting a real commitment on how this is, so you folks need to help us get them to understand they need to make a commitment to what they are doing, so that we don't have that situation reoccur where someone tells us I'm going to build 12 different types of housing products, but I really, really meant one, because it's easy to build one and so we have had -- De Weerd: You must have been in the living room with us; right? Nary: I think I sat through a few of those, yes. Bernt: Madam Mayor? Madam Chair? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: Question for Caleb. Just a point of clarification from you guys. So, it probably -- if I'm reading what you're saying -- wouldn't be a good idea to maybe ask what -- who the building team is. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 25 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 21 of 48 Hood: Madam Mayor -- De Weerd: Yes. Hood: -- Councilman Bernt, I'm not necessarily advocating for that one way or the other, I'm just saying I don't think there is anything improper about it. To the Mayor's point, though, if you want to hold them to that builder or a team of builders or a certain elevation, an explicit motion saying, okay, you said it's going to be -- you know, these are your three builders, you can do more than what -- what Bill just outlined and reviewing setbacks and that and forwarding it on. I just want you to know that is some effort on our part, though, it's not like we review all hundred lots in a subdivision the same day, one may come in and, then, two weeks later another lot comes in and, then, through -- we are constantly having to retrieve the record -- find it, retrieve it, review it and sign off on it and on -- I don't know how many subdivisions are in process now -- a hundred, you know, so finding that. So, we can do it. It's possible. I would not want to do it for every project, though. I mean if you have concerns or certain restrictions, again, we can accommodate that here and there, but as a general rule to -- to require us to look at every single family -- I need two new planners, please -- Nary: And I will add onto that, too. The other thing I guess that is concerning at all is, really, what the Local Land Use Planning Act is there for is to have this dialogue with local government, to, then, entitle a piece of property to do something, with or without restrictions, whatever those restrictions are within your code, so that anyone can build it, not that -- so that Fred could build it, but that anyone can build it, because the person who is standing in front of you may not own it tomorrow. He may be entitling the property and selling the property and so everything that you are trying to do up front is to make sure that whoever gets this development agreement can, then, build whatever it is you have required them to do it, doesn't matter if it's this company or that company or whatever, because that's really where all the entitlement process is is in what's allowed, what's going to be allowed and not allowed on this property no matter who owns it and no matter who builds it. Item 7: Ethics — Perceptions can be Reality Hood: Moving on then -- and I don't know that I will even read this, too. It's been up -- been up on the screen for a little bit. I will do just the last couple of bullets. Remember that you're on the record and it is the record and it's a discussion, not a dialogue, with staff for the public and, again, I don't have any -- I haven't seen that be an issue with this back and forth from -- from the audience, but you can ask staff questions when you're deliberating or even during the hearing. Everything, again, should work through the chair. That goes from the public, staff as well, work through the Mayor or the chairperson. Borton: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 26 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 22 of 48 De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: A comment on this. This applies to the recommendation process as well. I know the -- the minutes of the discussion and dialogue at the planning and zoning level and review of the minutes is extremely helpful to see what types of issues rise to the surface that are of greatest concern. So, it's both parts of the process. It's very helpful. Hood: Again, I don't know that I need to read these to you, but we are going to follow the code. We aren't going to advise or direct or figure how to work around the code. The code is pretty black and white and that way consider all the evidence generally, as Bill Nary was saying, it's a level playing field for everybody, consider everything that you're presented with that evening. We will help you make a good record, but especially when it gets -- if there is a recommendation or an action for denial, you know, those ones are especially important I think to state why you're denying something and what maybe they could do to gain your approval if they came back with something else. The written findings and inclusions, we will handle that for you. Lawful conditions. Again, we talked about that. It can -- they can potentially be off site, but we will help you if you seem to be getting off track with something that maybe doesn't seem applicable to a project, so -- and, then, yeah, quasi-judicial. It is court like. So, kind of think like a judge, act like a judge, and decide like a judge. We do trust you to make those decisions, so -- so, one of the other things that -- that I wanted to just touch on real quick. De Weerd: I thought Bill was asleep. Hood: I know I'm long sometimes; right? And we can certainly stand out -- illegal, unethical, immoral, whatever it may be that violates our rules of contact. I'm just going to read one to you. We shall not -- as public officials or employees, agents, planning participants -- if the discussions relate for which binding termination of such private communication are prohibited by law or by rules, procedures, or customs. Yes, they are that dry, but they are pretty black -- it has a voice regardless of how they got here, who they are, where they are, that they are considered. Again, some of the things that we have talked about before, so -- but, again, if you're interested in -- in anymore in what I am charged with doing as a certified planner, I would encourage you to contact me -- it's not just about ethics, there is other stuff, but I can share some more about our profession with you. So, again, Mr. Nary, do you have anything more you want to add than what we have already covered? Nary: No. I think that -- I guess the other thing I would ask sometimes from the staff's perspective is although the planning staff and legal staff are the subject matter experts over here to help make this the best -- you folks up there in those seats can help educate our public, because they don't always get it and all of you know this. You have sat through enough hearings to know that they are raising issues that you cannot -- I hear you, but that's not ours and this is why it isn't ours and this is what I can do and we try very hard, but it means so much more when it comes from you than it does when they hear it from me or they hear it from planning. So, there are times that, again, you Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 27 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 23 of 48 folks understand the process greatly as well and whether it's something as simple as, you know, we have had folks in front of you saying they are really offended that someone is asking to amend their development agreement. Well, that's the process. That's how you do it. I mean there isn't any other way to do it differently. And so helping them understand that that part of it's okay. Now, tell us why you don't like it. Don't tell us why you don't like it because they are asking, tell us why you don't like it because of how it might impact your life. You know, same thing whether it's a comp plan or something else. So, educating the public from the elected officials really is powerful and meaningful to the public, because you're -- again, you're speaking to them and helping them understand part of the process. That's what we try to do in legal. That's what planning tries to do. Understand that it's just part of the process. Everybody gets heard. Everybody gets a voice. It's doesn't mean everybody is a winner. It doesn't happen that way. But that's another piece that I think would be helpful sometimes -- and, again, I'm not saying anyone does that, but I'm just saying we are trying to educate folks and I think it means even more when you folks do that. Item 8: Zoning Designations Evolved Hood: This is kind of a hard transition back to Bill Parsons, but we -- I will just reference the handouts that I sent out early in this presentation. This one might help as Bill speaks. The next couple slides. Parsons: Mayor, Council, Planning and Zoning Commission, if you recall a few years ago -- maybe about a year ago we came through and we proposed a UDC text amendment to you and you approved it where we actually took our density -- maximum density requirements out of the UDC. In Caleb's opening introduction in tonight's hearing this evening he made mention of this handout and how it is a tool for you, but it's also a tool for our community, so that they can understand how the future land use map correlates with zoning their property. It's a tool we use for neighbors. I think all of you can agree, you have had neighbors come and testify and say I went down to planning and zoning and talked to them and they told me that was going to be low density and now someone has come in with a comp plan change for mixed use community and we were told this from our real estate agent this was going to be low density residential. So, again, Brian did a great job when he put this -- this summary together and I really want to talk to you about what -- what's going to happen with us taking that maximum density requirement out of the code. So, right now in our zoning ordinance -- and that's what the bottom bullet point is -- residential is just that, it's a residential use. In our code we have what we define single family detached, single family attached, but what's really driving the density is what the comp plan says now. So, we are letting the comp plan drive the density and we are letting the UDC drive the dimensional standards of that zone. So, when you hear an R-8 or an R-4 development when it comes -- when we share that with you in our presentations to you, an R-4 development means an 8,000 square foot lot and a 1,400 square foot single family home and an 1,600 square foot, two story home. When you hear an R-8 development that means a 4,000 square foot minimum lot size and, again, a single family home or possibly a single family attached or townhomes. But when we talk about -- give you a Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 28 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 24 of 48 quick synopsis of what an R-8 means -- our medium density residential means in the comp plan, it has a broader meaning; right? It's three to eight dwelling units to the acre. Sometimes it's on the low end and sometimes it's on the higher end and so I know a lot of times that we hear from the community, we hear from residents that they are still -- when they hear R-40 they are still under the impression that that means 40 units to the acre and the reason why we put together this information for the community and for you is we as staff -- yes, technically under the way the code is written today, someone could come in with an R-40 zoning and do an R-4 development. There is nothing that says they can't. Zoning, again, means dimensional standards. But what we are going to guide them to is this document in our comp plan that, well, R-40 isn't the preferred zoning for a medium low density residential development. R-4 -- or R-2, R-4 or R-8 may be the appropriate zone. So, we are not going to support your request for an R-40 zone on this property, because it makes no sense. We want to make sure that with annexation requests and subdivision requests that we get the appropriate zoning to match what we envision on the comp plan so that that vision is shared with the community and you as well. The other thing -- and I think the Mayor has mentioned this on a few occasions, the reason why we took that out of the code is because, one, we didn't feel we were getting the densities that we were looking for based on the zones. So, for example, an R-8 we were never getting to that density requirement in the code. We were never getting eight dwelling units to the acre because of our open space requirements and our roadways that we were requiring. The connectivity issues. So, that was one reason why we took it out. But it was also meant to give the developer a greater flexibility in providing a mix of housing types within the development and I think all of us can agree in this room, though, we haven't seen that transpire yet. We are still seeing a lot of R-8 come through or we are having R-8 zoning, but we are still getting R- 4 lots. So, again, we have to figure out how to kind of maybe fix that as a team, as a group. If we want to -- to even try to tackle it someday. But I at least wanted to bring that to your attention that, again, as residents come in it's our job to educate them to tell them that R-4 doesn't mean four dwelling units to the acre. R-4 means an 8,000 square foot lot with 60 feet of street frontage and a minimum home size. So, that's really what I wanted to convey to you with this slide this evening. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Mayor and Caleb, in our liaison meetings for a year we have talked about this dream of having the -- the names of the zoning changed. What would be the process to make that happen and we would all add years to our lives if they were named different. But would it take years away to get to the process? I don't know. Caleb: So, Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, we have discussed that a little bit with Mrs. Kane in Legal and it's possible. There has just got to be a huge education component. It kind of depends on what -- what we are trying to do if we got rid of the R- 2, R-4, R-8 and say we went with an R-1, R-2, R-3, R-4, R-5. I mean I don't -- none of them really means anything just when you look at the name anyways to me, but like Bill Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 29 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 25 of 48 was just saying, people have gotten used to associating the R-4 with four dwelling units per acre or R-8 with eight dwelling units per acre. Or if you went with an R -A or an R -B or an R -C, we still got to explain what the A and the B and the C -- what's the difference between an A and a C. Is C higher than an A? Is an A higher than a -- I mean I don't know that people are going to still do -- I want everything R -A, because I think that's the lowest density and R -D is -- oh, that's high density? I don't know what you would get. So, to answer your question we could do it, but at this point the city, as far as land mass goes, we are halfway annexed and zoned, the other half is still unincorporated Ada county, but we have a lot of people that we would affect. You know, 30 some thousand households where we have changed their zone code from an R-8 to an R -C or whatever and they are going to go what does this mean? We could explain it, but that's a lot of work. We thought it would be simpler, as Bill mentioned, just a couple of years ago, to take any reference to density out of this. But we have people that have been around and it used to be that R-4 did mean up to four dwelling units per acre and R-8 did mean up to eight dwelling units per acre. So, what would it take? It would take a lot of things, but the biggest thing to me is education. But we could do it with a UDC text amendment. We could change all the zoning districts. I think when we are going with Ada county and assessor's office and, you know, we have to change all the zone codes and all that, but it's possible. It would be our campaign, too. Palmer: Madam Mayor? Caleb, did -- when -- when was it that the densities were removed? Parson: I want to say 2016. Hood: It hasn't been two years. So, it's relatively new. Palmer: Even though it's barely been any time have you -- well, it would be way too soon to be able to know if there was any kind of a reduction in -- in confusion based on that as new people, but -- Hood: Honestly, Madam Mayor, I don't think there has been a reduction. Palmer: Do you think there ever will be? Hood: So -- I mean that was our intent. I don't -- I'm here to say we have been successful in that. But if someone were to do their own investigation and look at the UDC and go R-8, what does that mean, there is no way they would come to a conclusion that says R-8 means that this developer gets to do up to eight dwelling units per acre. De Weerd: And I don't mind necessarily if the R-8 means it's eight or less. But right now people are using the R-8 for the dimensional standards and setbacks and -- and it's -- they are really proposing an R-4 with R-8 setbacks and lot sizes, so they can be more creative in some areas and so I think transparency wise to the public I like that the R whatever indicates a density, but it needs to truly reflect that density. If you go for an R - Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 30 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 26 of 48 15 and you're really getting seven per -- per acre, it -- they are using that -- that R factor for other reasons other than density; right? Hood: Yes. And, Madam Mayor, I mean just the way we look at that, though, I mean if you -- we were really relying on this case on the future land map. You know, if you're low density and you're asking for an R-8 or an R-15 -- no. Low density. So, we really are looking at on the ground lots. What is your density with the comp plan. The zoning we are looking at the lot dimensional standards for frontage and setbacks. The problem that we are going to have -- I mean I see what you're saying. That makes a lot of sense. We don't want to spot zone these, because a lot of times we will get some -- a development that largely is R-4 lots and they got two lots over in the corner, they can't make the frontage requirements or they are just below 8,000. So, they zone the whole thing, you know, the less restrictive zone. We don't want to zone every other -- you know, this is an R-4 next to an R-8, next to an R-4, next in an R-2 -- I mean that's going to be a nightmare for everybody if we -- if we do that spot zoning type of thing. We hear you. Maybe we will -- I don't know a different way we could skin this cat, because it's certainly not perfect now. Milam: Madam Mayor? Caleb, I think this is great. I don't see why -- I guess I -- I mean I'm either missing something, but I think that on this document it's very clear, it tells exactly what you could expect it. You're calling it low density, medium density, I don't see why that's bad. Somebody help me out. Hood: Madam Mayor, I can just clarify. I mean this is new. This is a new document we put together, because there was so much confusion and we are trying to educate people. So, maybe we just -- we just don't have enough time to really know if people are getting -- getting it or not. Milam: It's great. Hood: But that's what we are trying to do is educate, so you can't -- it's not a one for one. It's not because you're low. This is the exact -- or even if you're asking for the zone, this is how many lots -- De Weerd: Or they pull up your -- your comprehensive map and they see green and, really, the proposal is yellow and you're not seeing yellow, that's the confusion. Hood: Madam Mayor, we are going to talk about that kind of at the end, too, a little bit with -- De Weerd: Okay. I keep jumping -- Hood: No, you're fine. You're fine. De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 31 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 27 of 48 Palmer: And, yeah, this is awesome and maybe we use this as a test for seeing if we can train people. I mean because, Councilman Bird, until the day he retired, would -- you know, would see R-8 and even though he was here, he knew that's not really what it means, it was I hate R-8. It's like that's not what it is, though. It's going to be R-4 houses. It happens to be R-8 dimensional reasons. So, I think -- because this is so awesome, every time we are going to have a meeting where we know that's what's going to be talked about for six hours at the podium, we have it on the TVs before the meeting and copies of this in the back to try to help people understand as much as possible before and we even point it out saying, okay, everybody look at the graph, because this is what this really means. It doesn't mean this. I don't know. And, then, maybe give that two years. Hood: Madam Mayor, I -- I don't know where everyone else is at. I don't think that's a bad idea. We could even put it on the -- you know, our opening slide with, you know, that night's meeting and we could have this up there. I mean it's more than land use. don't want -- I don't want -- you have a lot of other things that you guys all talk about -- I'm talking to the Council now, not as much Planning and Zoning Commission, but -- but even at the Planning and Zoning Commission, seriously, we could put this as sort of our screen saver. You know, copies in the back. I don't want to -- I know there is a lot of handouts in the back and we need sign -in sheets and other things, but I'd like to put a couple of these documents back there. I do think they are good resources that -- that maybe do help -- you know, people are waiting to testify and they just go, oh, here is my talking points or not, so -- Palmer: Madam Mayor? The reason I mean I'm bringing this up so much is because just would hate for us to get to 150 or 200 thousand population and still be spending hours talking about that's not what it means. That's not what it means. We promises that's not what it means. It's not -- and so that's when I'm like let's either change it now or make -- you know, find a tool like this as an -- as an educational way to see if we can help people understand better, because if it doesn't improve we have got to change the names, because we just waste so much time trying to educate people on the change. De Weerd: I don't know if that will happen, you know, if -- if it's the only time a development is going to happen around you, you still walk in without that background knowledge. I think you will always have an opportunity to -- to talk about it, because it's -- there is -- there is nothing intuitive about it. McCarvel: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. McCarvel: I -- I think to the average person who doesn't spend much time in the nitty gritty of zoning, I think this gives a beautiful picture overall what to generally expect and I think to get into, you know, lot sizes or try to -- for the people who are not in it every day and try to label something so definitively, I don't know as -- it gets us to a point -- I think this is a good general overview and tells people exactly what to expect. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 32 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 28 of 48 Hood: Thank you for that feedback. Madam Mayor, I said we would talk about this later, but maybe this is the best time to talk about it and it's been something that's been talked about in recent letters to the editor and in public hearings and other things. There is a note at the bottom here and I think this is some of -- there is already a range built in this preferred zoning and I think people expect, again, if it's green I'm expecting an R-2 or an R-4. In our comp plan, though, right now we allow a step up or down and that's the next -- the next slide I think. But, really, people look at this and, then, they go how did they -- they are green, but how do they even get to ask for R-8 then and why are you supporting it as staff. That's the disconnect. I mean where you really get away from, you know, it not being straightforward or logical or what -- you know, it's not intuitive I guess is the word you used. That creates this -- well, I thought I understood and, then, now they are asking for this. How do they get there, you know. And so that's where I think we really need to evaluate with our new comp plan is the time for the step has probably come and gone and that's where I think we get a lot of the -- you know. And I'm not -- we have got to talk about that, you know, this whole process. But, really, my -- what I'm coming to the realization of is, yeah, there is some R-8 projects that are really three and a half dwelling units per acre and that causes some people to go, what, R-8, that's -- because the actual plat is three and a half. Look at the actual plan, not the zoning, but -- so, again, the step takes up the next -- to the next level, though, of potential confusion and a guide to zoning, to a step, and how does that all interplay. So, I will let Bill do the step up, step down slide. But I think that is -- causes a lot of confusion to people that even understand the last slide, then, you go, oh, there is a step they can do, too, so -- Parsons: Yeah. Perfect timing, Mayor. He hit it right on the head. That's what we wanted to try to -- I think we want to get that feedback from this body and see how -- if we want to continue -- because this little -- one little sentence is buried in the comp plan on page 21 and we -- we seem to be getting it more and more over the last -- we have seen it go both ways. We have seen the request for the step up and we have seen a request for a step down and I think all of you probably heard from Warren Stewart and Public Works is our sewer master plan -- all of -- all of our plans that we have in place, our CIPs, all of those plans that you approve as part -- as part of your legislative action is driven by that plan, by this map, and so density -- certain densities are calculated as part of that and so when someone comes in, even -- we could even throw ACHD into the mix and how they -- what road typologies play into it. How much -- how that impacts the roadways that we have in our -- in our community. When we are stepping down there is an impact. When we are requesting a step up there is an impact. Now, what we are doing now is we are analyzing -- we are doing some of that analysis in our staff reports, but, typically, if -- if we don't have that in process and someone wants to go moving forward, they are going to have to process a comp plan map amendment. Now staff is getting paid and the city is getting -- we are doing that analysis as part of our staff report. We are saying, yes, we have analyzed this with Public Works, we have talked with ACHD, we have talked with all our other partners, it still works under what we have planned or it doesn't. Well, right now the way it's structured, someone applies for it, they give us an area and they say, yes, we are requesting a step down and Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 33 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 29 of 48 Council can make that determination for us. But they don't do any of that work and tell us that and so staff is doing some of that analysis to provide a recommendation to both of you. And so I think to Caleb's point, maybe this has run its course and maybe it's not needed as part of the comp plan anymore. As I alluded to in the previous slide, again, neighbors are coming to the hearings and they are expecting a certain density. This is -- this is the map we went to on your website and nowhere does it talk about a step up or a step down. I haven't heard a lot of complaints about stepping down, I have only heard the neighbors coming out and testifying about the step up. But keep in mind the step up is going -- say if it's low density, one to three or three or less, it's going to the three to eight. And so, again, that's -- in planning's world that's not much difference in density. But it's that perception where the neighbors are visualizing -- I can get up to a unit of the acre, I can get homes that are six feet apart from property lines and it goes back to a lot of the points that we always try to stress is it comes down to how you design it, to really -- to me that's what we have always talked about in front of you as we brought these changes to you, is it really comes down to the design and the amount of open space in the amenities that you provide with your development. If you are just going through the motions and trying to get maximum lots, step up isn't appropriate. If you are coming in with something where you're clustering homes around a central open space and you're creating -- having a nice amenity package, a clubhouse, a pool, whatever we see fit, then, again, we can have that conversation and say, yes, there is -- again, we are going back to findings. Is this in the best interest of the city to approve something like this. Anyway, enough on that. But we certainly want to have your feedback to see how you guys feel if this step up is still appropriate or not and like Caleb mentioned, we will probably take it under consideration for the next -- Hood: Just -- just one more point I want to make on the steps. Maybe two. But looking at the future land map, which is on -- on there now, if you take the yellow, which is medium density residential, that's 30 percent of the city maybe, 35 percent of the city maybe with that designation. The green and the yellow, then, you're at 70, maybe 75 percent of the city. I mean roughly. Brian could tell me exactly, because he runs the numbers. What I want to go back to then -- let's just take the yellow; right? MDR. The range, just with that color, is three to eight dwelling units per acre. The city is telling me I can step up to 15 or down to one. All of a sudden that yellow is meaningless. I can go from one to 15 dwelling unit per acre. What does that tell you as -- as an adjacent neighbor. What are my guarantees. We got 30 percent of the city that's the yellow. Even the green, I can go from one to eight. It's a huge range. De Weerd: I think you're preaching to the choir. We don't like this. Hood: So, just one final point on -- on this. It's not official yet, because the resolution isn't done, but for the Planning and Zoning Commissioners, last week or two weeks ago the City Council did act and there is actually a third one here where you can't do the step anymore and that's in the rim area. So, that isn't official yet, but -- but that's in process. So, just so you know that there is an area in the Comprehensive Plan where you won't be able to step up anymore after the resolution is done. Probably next week I think, so -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 34 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 30 of 48 De Weerd: Council or Commission, do you have feedback on this step up or down program? I think -- I can remember one step down. All the rest have been step ups. So, any comments? Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Maybe instead of a step up between the full range of the colors, a step up to the lowest zone within the next range. Nary: And maybe to add to what I think Caleb alluded to and for those who don't know, but that whole step up came about because it was very hard to amend your Comprehensive Plan very often. So, that was the whole purpose of it. So, really, even with the requirement that there is no step up -- even if you have had a requirement there was no step ups but for amending the comp plan, that's just another piece of the process you have in front of you anyway. So, it wouldn't really restrict anybody, it's just another finding part of the hearing you have to have. So, it's not quite so onerous as it was 15 years ago where you could only amend the map twice a year. Now you can amend the map whenever you need to. Parsons: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Commissioners, just to add on that, we have an internal staff policy that says if it's just a comp plan amendment, we are still going to process you twice a year, but if you have an actual development plan to go along with your comp plan amendment, then, we will take you any time of year, as long as there is a plat applied or conditional use or some kind of project that you are proposing that you want to get constructed. The other thing that -- that we didn't touch on -- some of that green on the map is because of what's currently developed in the county and it really is a placeholder and at some point we, as staff, or those neighbors, the individual property owner, will probably come forward and request a comp plan change and that's kind of the nature of what we do our business is we have a placeholder, it's one acre lots in the county, so low density makes sense; right? It's one acre to -- one unit to the acre. So, when we did our comp plan and we do our updates, we kind of do that. Again, we want the comp plan to match what's constructed on the ground and so some of that green is based on what's kind of transpired through the county and at some point -- I think Caleb was trying to take some of the effort on and some of the county residents and they weren't successful, but I mean that's -- that's kind of what we think some of that is going to happen, some of those changes. That green is going to change to either mixed use or higher density residential, something other than low density residential in the future. De Weerd: So, Bill, you raised a point that master plans are -- are really anticipating certain growth numbers and a lot of times that's per square mile. So, as we look at the Comprehensive Plan update and we start looking at some of these triggers to reconsider the densities, can you -- can you break those into square miles and as a Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 35 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 31 of 48 development comes in that we know what we are performing to? Are we at the anticipated densities or -- or not. And that's part of at least the conversation at the Commission and at Council to know are we -- are we hitting the kind of targets that we have modeled to? Hood: And, Madam Mayor, I might just handle that one, because we do, you know, coordinate and this is, again, kind of a continuation of recent conversations with Warren and others in Public Works. But sewer sheds especially, I mean we could report that on a per square mile basis, but a lot of the infrastructure is sized to accommodate the amount of ERUs, so we will get comments back from Public Works saying, hey, you know, we anticipated more than this, we overbuilt that, or we underbuilt this, we can't go up to R-40, because we don't have the capacity downstream to accommodate that effluent. So, we report some of that today, you know, again, based on your future land use map designation we anticipated this, you're asking for zoning at this density, how consistent is it. We might just have to have another conversation on what other information we are actually talking about and, again, we are going to talk a little bit more with others about even the first page or two of the staff reports and what information you would like to see just kind of right there front and center and what information -- you know, I'm just -- Brian and I were looking at it the other day and, you know, he brought up, you know, these motions, they take up a third of your front page. Do we really need -- you know you are either going to approve, deny, is recommend continuance. Do we need to have that on every single one of these. Couldn't more pertinent information be - - you know. So, we will have some of those conversations, but -- McCarvel: Madam Mayor? Yes. The last page would be fine. But somewhere in there. It doesn't have to be on the front. Item 9: South Meridian and Rim Areas Hood: But, anyways, the point was we are looking at reconfiguring even some of the staff report and making that -- you know, really getting you the key information within the first couple of pages. If there is other reports you want us to run about how are we doing in density in this section, we can certainly do that, so -- or what -- whatever that -- however you want to monitor that or look at that. I mean we do in the staff report -- you know, this is 3.8 dwelling units per acre, right in that range that we anticipated, but if there is something else you want to include with that we can certainly look into that. do want to clarify -- and I'm not trying to contradict what Bill just said, but I do want to clarify -- and this goes in the same vein with what we were just talking about. We need to try to work with Public Works master plans. So, placeholders in the comp plan, we are trying to really get away from that, because that doesn't do anybody any good. It really should be the ultimate land use plan for your city. But it does change over time. It's not set in stone. Markets change. Owners change. Visions change. But this -- you know. And we do see some of the county subdivisions redeveloping, but, for example, just this last year, you know, we talked to the Jade Subdivision and -- I can't remember what the other one was -- Rolling Hills. Thank you. Because they are low density on the map and we are like there is some opportunity -- have you seen Norco and what's Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 36 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 32 of 48 going on here? On Overland and the interstate, what do you guys think? And the vast majority of them said, no, we like our one acre, two acre lots and we don't want to transition. Okay. We might ask you again in ten years, but, you know, some of your neighbors probably will want to, but -- and they can, they can ask to change the map. But as far as a placeholder goes, I know in 2011, 2012, you know, we asked those people down there to participate and they did and they largely came back with rural and low density. Just my opinion. You know, it was fairly shortsighted. But that was based on -- to the Council at that point's -- and the Planning and Zoning Commission -- to their credit you listened to the stakeholders. Really, is that what it's going to be long term is dairies and open space and five acre lots? I question it anyways. So, again, we have done that. We are really trying to get away from that, because that McDermott trunk is coming and if we change the density down there, there is no going back or it's going to cost us a lot more money if we want to do even lower medium density. The plan isn't to service any of that with sewer. So, anyways, I don't -- we don't need to spend a whole lot of time. That is one of the areas we will look at. Actually, on this slide. So, I'm going to transition to some direction we need as staff. So, what I was just talking about is actually in the last part. The southwest -- I would say we need to look at the southwest again. Again, it wasn't that long ago, it was only 2011 where we really engaged with those people down there, but a lot has changed just even the six years since. I mean Kuna has annexed lands in that area. We are coming down Ten Mile. Their generation may -- that's what they may see and all for dairies and those -- we need them. But think we really need to confirm -- or was it just a placeholder for ten years and these are the land uses we really envision in that area in south -- in southwest. McCarvel: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. McCarvel. McCarvel: I think the sooner you can get those placeholders out of there and let people know what to expect the better and -- I mean this is probably nothing new to you, but Ten Mile and Black Cat, three of those corners -- those whole acreages are for sale and so it's coming and not that anybody doesn't know that, but I think with as many people coming in, the quicker we can get rid of the placeholders and say what -- get a definition of what's really going on, the less surprises for people. Hood: Madam Mayor, just to maybe clarify. We didn't go into that effort as trying to come up with a placeholder for something else. That's just what we heard back from stakeholders. That's part of the process. That's what you all heard as appointed and elected officials was we would like this to say rural. Well, they would, but what about two generations from now, are they going to want that to be rural? I don't know, but -- so, again, we didn't go into that effort or generally don't -- I mean with a placeholder, no. We are trying to portray, really, what we -- the vision for the community over time. Now, it may -- now, it may take a generation or two to get down there, but I don't want to mislead or misrepresent anybody, because that is the ultimate land use plan for the city, so -- so, again, just back to some of this direction that I need from -- primarily the Council. So, I apologize to Planning and Zoning Commission, but I will take it from you, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 37 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 33 of 48 too. Any direction you have here. Here in the next month or two we are going to hopefully have a consultant under contract to start developing a new Comprehensive Plan for the city. One of the things staff has spent some time on just in the past 12 months is talking about the south rim in particular -- in particular. How much -- and that initial Comprehensive Plan text amendment was just acted on last week -- last week? Sorry. Recently. And a lot of the things we thought were good initial policies didn't get adopted. So, my question is do we pull up those again? Are we done with talking about policies? Is it more of a talk about land use or is it land use and policies? Do we want to, for example, you know, come up with policies about view sheds. I mean that was talked about. I don't want to regulate view sheds, but just as an example, is that something we are -- what's the level of effort you want from staff in this exercise. We have some members of the public and our community that want to talk about this some more. I don't know -- any initial direction on where we might be going with that, though, would be helpful. I don't want to be spinning in circles and -- I mean if there is really no appetite for any of this -- kind of like we were just talking with placeholders, I don't want to mislead anybody, but I do want to vet that out if there is something to potentially be had there. So, again, what -- without getting into how many hours we should spend on this effort, generally what -- is it comp plan policies? Is it land use changes to be more low density? Again, is it a combination of both? Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Madam Mayor and Caleb, with regard to view sheds, I echo Dave Yorgason's points last week, that an attempt to establish a perceived value in the space above someone else's property is a right to a neighbor is a task that I don't think we want to touch with a ten foot pole. I don't know if other cities anywhere have done it, I mean I'm sure it has been, but I can imagine the mess that it could create. Yearsley: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Yearsley. Yearsley: Caleb, I -- I don't know if I would worry -- focus on the view sheds. I almost wonder if we want to kind of create it like an arterial, something that people are going to see. So, we want articulation, we want something unique, not -- not just a row of homes for everyone to see for eternity, you know, something -- something that's a little bit different than, you know, kind of the norm that you -- we are starting to see, very small lots with nothing in between, you know, maybe have our zoning be -- you know, would we want, you know, five foot or ten foot separations between homes or something to that effect, at least to try to break up the monotony is -- is my thinking. De Weerd: Any other comments? Milam: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 38 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 34 of 48 De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: I tend to agree, because -- well, I don't really know anything about view sheds, so I don't really -- I wouldn't even know where to start with that. But I think maybe just creating some areas that are -- are like larger lots, so it does give more space and -- because I think what a lot of the time they have been asking for there, they don't want to be crammed in by a bunch of neighbors, because they have -- they have big lots and they don't want, you know, a bunch of R -8s and R -15s crammed in next to them or whatever. So, I think -- and I think it would be -- it wouldn't be a bad idea to do a little bit on the west, too. And the northwest. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: Another thing that was a little bit -- well, at least where I had a question about last week when we were discussing this wasn't necessarily -- I think that we are all in agreement that the view shed -- or the southern rim -- rim portion needed to be more unique. I echo what Mr. Yearsley said. I think -- I agree with him one hundred percent. My only concern was the amount of the area below the proposed southern rim area that would be influenced by the actual rim portion. I felt like that bottom portion was just way too big and so maybe what we need to do is just sort of shrink that and not, you know, use a paint brush that we spoke about last week of not only, you know, changing the landscape of the actual southern rim, but also all of the property underneath it as well. I think that you're going to get some -- I think we are going to get some major blow back from -- and rightfully so, in my opinion, from -- from landowners that are -- that are below the rim area. De Weerd: And, Caleb, maybe just to build on that, is being more specific in the transition between uses. That can help with it. So, it's not a quarter mile, it's a block or a row of houses. It's -- whatever that transition best fit. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: To the -- to the question on the screen, I -- I don't think there is any portion of the southern Meridian or Meridian as a whole that should be excluded. I envision the comp plan review process to be as broad as possible. So, if it's evaluating or reevaluating the policies throughout all south Meridian, which includes the rim and the northern rim, I'm not sure what portion of a comp plan revision -- text policy map will be excluded from discussion. The devil is in the details. Through that process we might find out the things such as view sheds are impractical or improper to include, but for the purpose of scoping, a consultant to lead us through the process, it seems as though broad would be best. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 39 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 35 of 48 Hood: So, Madam Mayor, if I can just be frank in my concern is more the land use map. To me all of Meridian is not on the table to discuss, so -- and that's the problem I kind of run into with this is, okay, we got policies about this rim, but the map says I can be medium density and I'm on the rim. Now, you're telling me that I can't because I'm on the rim? So, did you just take my right to develop at medium densities away, because I'm right on the very tip top of the rim -- again, the scale is not great here, but there are several properties within the rim area that are medium, medium high, commercial -- now what do you do? So, again, that's kind of the direction is why notify all the property owners in here, regardless of what you are now on this map and say it's all on the table, folks. Everybody may become low density, because you are -- maybe not a quarter mile, maybe that's -- you know, an eighth of a mile from the top or -- we will look at this topography, right, and come up with a -- and say this is what we expect up there. It's X. Everybody in this you do this, because we want it to be Harris or whatever. I don't know. And I'm not even quite sure how we do that, because to me some variety adds that. I don't think any uniformity of ten foot setbacks for everybody -- that isn't going to look good either, because that's going to be cookie cutter ten foot setbacks for everybody. But, again, that's the kind of the clarification I need that to me land uses citywide aren't on the table. There are some areas we are looking at. Northwest, for example. The Fields area. That is one that we are going to look at. The rail corridor. You know, there are some that we are targeting to say is this best and maybe it was a placeholder before and we need to reevaluate, our market has changed, but -- all policies are on the table, just to clarify. But the map, if we are saying we are starting from scratch on the map, that's a huge effort that we weren't planning on undertaking. But we define -- and that's really my question here for the rim, you want to do the rim, do you want to do something else kind of in south Meridian where there is opportunity to develop or redevelop -- is it more about density than about views or is this really about views? I really don't know what it's about, quite honestly. I hear this -- you know, this asset and, yes, you can kind of see it from certain points, but I don't -- I don't know what we do as a city to regulate that. Sometimes it's going to look nice, sometimes it may not. But you may think it looks nice, I don't. I don't know how we -- sorry, I'm rambling now. But my point was not everything is on the table. If we come up with policies that conflict with the map, the map is going to trump, because that's density. You can annex and zone a certain development potentially, so -- Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Caleb, we have entered that zone where you ask Council or -- and Planning and Zoning a question and you're going to get a lot of different answers. So, I don't know how much clarity you will get, but I thought you asked a specific question that want to at least respond specifically. For me it is about density and it is about views. If had to pick one over the other, I'm more willing to have a conversation about density than I am about views. I think actually Madam Mayor and Council Member Bernt -- kind of along with where my philosophy is, at least about the northern portion of the southern Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 40 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 36 of 48 rim, maybe that being too wide of a span and that's something that I would look at. To me it is more about the southern rim and, then, probably the southwest piece, as opposed to the southeast piece where I would see -- and, again, I don't want to be the one to direct staff in terms of time and priorities by any means, but those are the things that I would think would be a priority for me. Yearsley: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Yearsley. Yearsley: You know, I have driven that area quite a bit and I wouldn't be surprised if you looked at an aerial photo that most of that upper portion of that southern rim has already been developed into estate lots and more than likely probably won't be redeveloped or don't want to be redeveloped, because of where they are situated. think it's going to mostly affect what happens on that -- that lower portion of the rim, because that's where your development really hasn't taken place yet, because they don't have the views for people to look out over the city of Boise. So, you know, as we get into this study maybe we need to take a look at, okay, what is not developed, what is developed and focus on those areas that are to be developed or can be developed and how we want that to look and maybe take a more defined look, instead of a huge paint brush look for the entire rim as an option. Hood: So, Madam Mayor, if I can sort of summarize that comment. That to me is, again, a land use question, though. Yearsley: Yes. Hood: More to the density point I mean than -- than anything else. And we have a map. So -- and it's varied. When you say lower portion -- and I don't know if we are all on the same page even with this, I mean I'm thinking that the half mile swath that we have cut out -- certainly if you're on the top you are going to have a better view than if you are at the toe of slope of this, why wouldn't -- you know, density is one thing, view probably not right. Yearsley: Right. Hood: There are properties, though, on the rim, if -- overlooking like Boise Ranch Golf Course in that area where they are certainly underdeveloped. I'm not going to say undeveloped, because there are some homesteads there. But they are medium high density. What's wrong with having -- lining up condos on the rim and everybody can look towards the foothills. Is that a problem? I don't know. That's the question. Am looking -- am I knocking on their door going, hey, you were thinking about doing condos here, but now you're half acre lots. I don't know. I mean that's the -- that's the can of worms we potentially open up with this. Now if they want to ask for a map change, that's fine. Am I initiating that? That's some good -- I mean open to more comments, too, and I -- and I do appreciate just sort of writing down everybody's notes and we will Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 41 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 37 of 48 -- hopefully there is some, you know, pieces of that where there is some general agreement. I don't think we are going to develop view shed policy, so that's good. I haven't heard anybody say, yes, let's do that, but -- De Weerd: And I don't know if you are going to come to any consensus tonight. Hood: Right. De Weerd: Just having the discussion and starting the thought and -- and having an opportunity to have more community discussions, too. I think this is really something to be part of the Comprehensive Plan discussion, so the public has an opportunity to weigh in and you are not going to make rash decisions, because you want to make -- have some kind of policy before you kick off the Comprehensive Plan. I don't sense a consensus that anyone is there quite yet. Hood: That's really what I wanted, because we pulled a lot of the -- the draft policies that we had talked about didn't get adopted. So, really, just kind of my question was do we just revive that and really reach out to a broader audience? Because the public participation was kind of late in the process, so if you want to be -- essentially revive that or some version thereof, those policies, and loop that back through this process or are we starting from scratch or do we just say, no, a decision was made, we are not going to do anything else. But I just -- I think I heard kind of where we will go. Well, we will vet it some more, see where it goes. De Weerd: I -- I don't sense any consensus or any interest at this point. McCarvel: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. McCarvel. McCarvel: Caleb, I think it does come down to -- I think the public's interest in wanting to protect their views and what can be the views, but I think it is just the density issue, that there are so few places that there are bigger lots and even if you build on a bigger lot and this got this little green area around you. You have got builders that want to come in and do smaller lots and come in and put that in and be done and I think what people are just looking for is somewhere where they can protect and say, okay, this is going to be where there is some space and it's not going to be cars and people everywhere and the higher densities. And it just kind of makes sense that they -- you know, that they have picked that area, because like you said from the air they are already those bigger lots out there. So, I think if you had some places that were actually designated that builders knew that's what they needed to build there, instead of coming in and asking for the step up. Hood: So, here -- I mentioned our team, but there they are. This is kind of the end of what we had on the agenda, but we have gone a couple of hours now, so if -- if there is any other topics, though, or something you all want to talk about amongst yourselves, Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 42 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 38 of 48 this may be an appropriate time. Or we can -- but I do, again, appreciate everybody taking the time to meet tonight. If there is future meeting topics or things you want to cover, now would be a good time to let us know and we will organize this for another six months or a year or so from now. I think it's probably a good thing just for you all to hang out a little bit and get to know each other better, so -- Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Not a topic. Caleb, I just want to make sure that we can all get e-mailed this slide show. Hood: Sure. Milam: It's awesome. That would be great for review, too. Thank you. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Thank you. Either for a topic for tonight or for a future meeting. Caleb, you kind of talked on it, but I know you had some cases recently where application -- I think more for multi -family have come in and have met the minimum requirements for parking and I have seen P&Z has asked for more and so I don't know if that's a discussion more with staff and the Council or do we need to change our minimum standards for parking or do we just need to have a more broad conversation as a body as to what collectively we are looking for? De Weerd: Yeah. Either that or clarify those are minimum standards. It doesn't exclude it from asking -- or actually planning more. McCarvel: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. McCarvel. McCarvel: Yeah. I think the -- and maybe to look at raising minimum standards, I think where Planning and Zoning has gotten real concerned about the parking is when the project is surrounded by streets where they can't park and if they are landlocked into this is their parking, then, that's where we want to see more parking. Cavener: Madam Mayor, not a -- not a criticism or a critique on the Commission, just more -- if you're seeing a lot that, then, maybe we should be having a larger conversation about raising our minimum standards when it comes to parking, if you think that's warranted. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 43 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 39 of 48 Yearsley: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Yearsley. Yearsley: I think we ought to consider looking at some of that and a lot of it I think where it comes to play is we are starting to see bigger, you know, three and four hundred unit developments coming in and I think at that point we need to start looking at -- at that point you're going to get multiple people having friends come over and is our minimums enough. And so those are the things I think we need to kind of go back and take a look at and understand what is the trends out there, are people driving more, do they have more cars, are they getting less cars -- trying to figure out exactly what are we seeing out there with these types of developments. At this point, you know, I have a perception of what I think it looks -- should be like, but is my perception correct? And I think maybe having some analysis on that, you know, what is that standard, what are we -- what do we see might be helpful with our decisions on -- is our standard enough, do we need to do more, that type of stuff. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: Another point of interest that I wanted to talk about. I agree with the parking dialogue, but I think it's important during that dialogue to note that there is a difference between urban development and suburban development and so there needs to be a difference between the two. You can't have a ton of parking downtown Meridian. So, just -- there is a -- I think there is a difference. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: While we are talking about minimum standards, I think we should raise our minimum standards across the board, because these subdivisions come in and some of them do an amazing job and they come in over and, then, there is the minimalist subdivision and when I tell them that they are a minimalist subdivision, you got minimum open space, you got minimum amenities, they are like, well, I met your requirements and you are telling us we should accept better things and ask for better things, but it's difficult to do that when they are meeting the requirements and you are recommending approval, because they meet the requirements then -- but we don't think those requirements are enough, then, maybe we should talk about raising those requirements a little bit. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 44 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 40 of 48 Palmer: Madam Mayor, on the parking discussion, I think that maybe considering a trade, like how we do with -- if you have a super awesome amenity or whatever other requirement might not be required, if you are in a situation where it makes more sense to do more parking, maybe -- okay, I have provided an extra ten percent more parking than is required, can I do seven and a half percent open space, because the pavement is going to cost more than open space in almost every situation I'm sure and so to make that additional investment and ask for a little bit of exchange, where, okay, instead of having this useless alleyway behind this apartment building, can I add 12 more spaces. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Or maybe a request -- it's rare that we get our Planning and Zoning Commissioners here with us. I know that I -- much like Counsel Member Borton mentioned, I find great value in reading the minutes from the meeting. I feel like that the City Council has monopolized the bulk of the conversation tonight and would love to hear from our P&Z Commissioners of the issues or thoughts or comments that they want to make sure were heard by us before we get close to adjourning. De Weerd: And certainly now you know how we make sausage. Perreault: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Perreault. Perreault: I think generally the Commission -- when we ask for an increase in an open space or amenities, it's because of that density issue, where, you know, the yards are smaller and there is less -- or there isn't access to a community park in certain areas and so I -- I would not be in favor of trading out something like parking for open space or amenities, because they have become so critical in these highly dense developments. Holland: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Holland: I would just say that, you know, I'm relatively new to the Commission, but part of the reason I joined was making sure that we grow the city that we all want to live in long term and making sure that we think about a balance of -- we don't want to be the drive through city, we want to be a drive to city. We want to make sure we have got a good mix of residential, but also a good mix of, you know, commercial buildings, places where people can come and be employed. Let's not just have a number of parking lots where we are continuing to have lots of pavement, but think strategically about how we balance all of it. Fitzgerald: Madam Mayor, they didn't give me a microphone, so -- Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 45 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 41 of 48 De Weerd: Mr. Fitzgerald. Someone was smart, you know -- Fitzgerald: There is a reason. I'm just joking. I -- the parking thing has been an interesting one and I'm sure if you guys have read -- because I think in many cases our staff does an exceptional job of -- it's based on calculations. Different than open space. I think those are two different issues. You have got -- you can probably use statistics based on how many people have cars versus that live in apartments and so we had a project come before us -- it hasn't come before you guys -- there was pictures of giant black asphalt with very little cars and I'm not sure when the picture was taken, but have trouble with giant black asphalt, it just doesn't do anything. So, I understand we are putting big super apartments in certain circumstances, but I think there has got to be a balance there between just huge massive parking lots and so I -- I appreciate the staff's work. I think there is calculations for a reason and minimum standards usually meet those reasons and I hope that would take guests parking into account as well. I -- I think the open space requirements are -- and we always like to see additional ones if we can, but I think the parking one there is a little bit more subjective, instead of objective. I mean I think there is calculations -- and if we can study that, as Commissioner Yearsley has mentioned, I think that would be a positive, because I think there is calculations that we can tie that to. So, that's what -- I think that would be a good -- something to study. Yearsley: Madam Mayor, as a different subject, we are starting to see -- and I think we are going to continue to see a lot of infill projects and I'm kind of curious to see what other people's thoughts were, but I struggle with an infill -- you know, they want the max density, because it's -- you know, they are trying to fit as many houses in that small infill piece of, property but yet how do we weigh that as a benefit to the city and I have seen a couple of them come in, how they have developed, and looking back on it I don't know if I would have approved it after seeing it developed and so I would be curious to see what other people have to say and how do we want to approach that, is that something that we need to look at kind of as a separate kind of review or how do we want to approach that. Fitzgerald: Madam Mayor, could I add one thing to that? De Weerd: Yes. Fitzgerald: And Brian did a great job of the conceptual chart and it has a note at the bottom that talks about infill density bonuses. I would love to hear more from staff on what that looks like, because I know that's something we haven't done a ton in the past. De Weerd: I think you have a good list there and it will be a lively discussion. Okay. Perreault: Madam Mayor, can I add one more thing? I don't know if this is possible, but I know one thing that I would really like to see is -- is for us to get that commentary from ACHD -- to get that commentary from the school district. Is there any way for us to get Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 46 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 42 of 48 more information from these entities? That's a question for staff or anybody who wants to answer. Hood: Madam Mayor, maybe I will start anyways. It's been some time since we talked about that, but our -- our current position is -- we will use ACHD for example. The school district hasn't historically been a problem to get comments from them in time for the Planning and Zoning Commission. ACHD, though, especially for larger projects, do tend to lag and you all, as Planning and Zoning Commissioners, typically don't have their -- finalized action or even draft staff report. Again, our current way of doing business is we tend to error on the side of the development community in that instance to keep the process timely and moving the project forward. We could potentially, though, work ACHD's schedule more into our schedule. But, again, it historically has been something where we are not willing to wait and hold up somebody who is maybe borrowing against that money for this development to say we are waiting on another agency to provide us comment to have that in time. Now, for Council -- so, I hope you guys don't feel like you are, you know, the lesser of the bodies, but for Council we do require that. We want Council -- and we want the Planning and Zoning Commission, to be honest, to have all of the information to make an informed recommendation and decision. So, we do hold projects up regular, when applicable, at the Council level, so we can get that input. If we want to say, you know, we are going to either work it into our standard timeline for transmittals and say instead of the four to six weeks we give agencies to respond, we are giving them six to eight weeks, so we can get all that information. I just know there is going to be a lot of push back from the development community, because you just added two or three weeks to their timeline overall. So, know it would be great and, again, I would love you to have that information, but we can't make ACHD -- we have tried -- to get them to respond sooner and they are in the same boat; right? I mean they are dealing with a whole bunch of development right now, too. So, again, we have tried to get that commentary where we can have those conditions, but it's -- it's not something where we historically held him up. Now, I will also just say if -- and a lot of this has to do with -- you get a lot of the comments from the public about traffic; right? And it hasn't been to ACHD yet. So, you take the brunt of that angst, because they haven't had a chance yet to talk to the highway district about it. If you feel like you don't have enough information or are comfortable enough with that, that's within your purview to continue it out to get that -- those comments. Again, I won't say you do that every single time. What if there is a project here like -- we are hearing a lot of this and we really -- we are not comfortable for it. I think the Council would appreciate that, too, because they don't want to be handed a problem, outstanding issues to try to resolve, they want you to vet these things and go all things considered here is what we recommend. So, again, that's within your purview to say, you know, we just aren't comfortable moving this along without having that. But as a general rule we just haven't put that timeline together to always get that from ACHD. So I'm sorry. Yearsley: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Yearsley. Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 47 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 43 of 48 Yearsley: With that being said, it seems like we are having a lot more and more applications be continued because of something other or not. Is there -- is there a procedure of when they come in, when they go on the agenda, or can we push that back just a week or two to -- because it seems like, you know, inevitably -- and I don't know how -- if that's something that you can -- that we can fix or not, but it seems like we are always continuing this, because we didn't get this information or we are still reviewing or just with that stuff. So, didn't know how we want to address that. Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and the Commission, I can take I think the -- De Weerd: Are you turned on? Coles: Am I turned one? We are on. We are good. Was it about -- about a year ago our paper record changed from the ValleyTimes to the Meridian Press. When that happened, actually, as a -- I think an inadvertent consequence, the -- the timelines for publication and for submitting applications actually extended by about a week due to the length of time it takes us to get information to the Meridian Press, when they like it, so that they can publish. So, inadvertently the timelines actually extended about a week. The cut off dates, if you will -- that's not the usual term, but that extended, like I say, a week there. But outside of that, in terms of why applications are being continued after they have been submitted to the city, I know planning staff can tell you that there is a whole slough of reasons that that takes place. But we have actually extended the timeline for applications by a week, just because our paper record changed within the past year. So, that did happen, like I say, as an inadvertent consequence. Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council and P&Z Commission, we do -- we don't have cutoff dates in the City of Meridian. So, basically, we tell our applicants that we meet -- P&Z meets the first and third Thursdays of the month. Depending on when we get that application is -- we get them -- try to -- the goal is to get them to the next available agenda. What happens is the applicant will come in -- as you know, we pre - app with them. We sit down with the applicant, we share with them the expectations that we want them -- the formation we want them to submit with their application and those timelines. A lot of times some applicants will do that and some won't. So, what will happen is staff will get it -- what will happen as it comes in, we get it routed -- we have to get it verified by GIS, if it's an annexation or plat. We usually get -- make sure it can be serviced. That water and sewer is available and it's modeled appropriately for our master plan and make sure that the legal descriptions that they provide with their application is -- meets the requirements of the State Tax Commission. We get that verified. I send it -- I assign it to a planner, one of the associate planners, and they review that application for completeness. Sometimes during that review process we will e-mail comments to the applicant and say we need these items in order to deem your application complete. Sometimes they do a really good job with that and sometimes they don't. But the planner will go ahead and get it scheduled and, then, during the course of that -- what may happen sometimes is we also -- like three weeks before it gets scheduled to come before you we have what we call a project review meeting. At Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 48 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 44 of 48 that point we have all city departments there discussing the proposal and some things may come about during that hearing that weren't quite discussed at the pre -app, it might have been missed or wasn't communicated accurately to the developer or they just didn't do it and they are like, no, we are not -- we going to take our chances with the P&Z and we told them you may get continued, because you're not giving us everything we want. All we try to do is work with that applicant, as we get the comments from the other agencies, so they are not blindsided, we don't want to ever make them feel uncomfortable going through the process, we want to give them all the information up front. Sometimes that information does take longer than the two or three weeks to get before you and we are like -- we don't have the information we need to make a recommendation -- a positive recommendation. We can go forward with a different recommendation and most of the time they don't want to go forward with that recommendation, they would prefer a positive recommendation from staff. So, that does get stalled out and, then, at that point we asked the applicant to continue it out, so, that, again, we can get the information and so that we can get all of that in front of you, so you can make an informed decision. Staff doesn't want to bring Planning and Zoning Commission issues either. We want to make sure we get all of that worked out on the front end and in the staff report, with the appropriate conditions, so that you can make -- either a decision on the application or forward on a positive recommendation to our City Council. Hood: I just -- I just wanted to reiterate a little bit what Bill said. I think if I had to put a percentage to it I say 50 to 60 percent of the continuations are, essentially, what he just mentioned. The developer -applicant is trying to make changes to what they originally submitted, so that they get a staff recommendation -- a favorable staff recommendation. But there are other times where they haven't posted the site, it was noticed incorrectly, the newspaper didn't do their thing, I'm out of town as a develop -- whatever. I mean there are other reasons that projects get continued. But, again, a majority of them are changes that the applicant is making to try to get a favorable recommendation from staff. Is that the right way to do things? I don't know. I mean I kind of like that; right? But you also have -- it's noticed that the public is to come on this night and this is when we are going to talk about this thing that was submitted, that everybody is looking at. So, I mean I can see it both ways where, yeah, you want to have a project that at least staff and the applicant are on the same page with, but, then, it could be a different layout, a different project, essentially, than maybe what was originally submitted, so -- Yearsley: And I don't know if there is a correct answer or not, it's just -- I look at more the -- the public wanting to come testify and the frustration that they have that it got continued and how to address that. So, that -- that was my only concern. And I don't quite know how to fix it or best -- I like the way -- the approach that you guys do it and making sure that we work with the applicant to get a favorable recommendation, because that makes it go a lot smoother and a lot easier, but it does take a toll on the public, so -- Parsons: Just to add to the conversation is I would also stick with the policy that we tried to put in -- that we have in place is we want the applicant here at the hearings and Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 49 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 45 of 48 they need to get up here -- you need to ask the applicant to come up and ask them why they are requesting a continuance and I haven't seen a lot of that latterly. So, keep that in your mind as you see continuances on the agenda. We -- we want to make sure that if there is a public in the audience we want the applicant to come up and say we are requesting a continuance for these reasons, why are you requesting it. It doesn't mean you have to grant it. Again, if it's a noticing error or something like that, we can't act on it, we have to -- Yearsley: Absolutely. Parsons: -- we have to move it. We have to continue it. But if it's something they didn't get us, you can be like, no, staff, are you ready to go? We may or may not be, but certainly you don't have to honor that request. But it does -- I think Mayor does a great job of this sometimes when we have a continuance. Is the applicant here to tell us why. Or, staff, why is it -- this project being continued and we try to put that on your -- your hearing outlines for you, but if you need more information, the applicant or staff should be able to provide that to you. McCarvel: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. McCarvel. McCarvel: As far as a consideration for the public -- and maybe there is a legal reason that we don't do this, but is there any reason why we can't put that on the published agenda, that the applicant has requested a continuance, just like the agenda that we get with those notations on it? Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the -- Madam Mayor, Members of the public -- members of the Council, sorry, yes and no. I mean we talk about that a lot internally on whether we should list that on the agenda. We do when we know about it, especially in a larger project, we do try to notify the people that we know to tell, HOAs or something, that this has been requested. But it's always a double edge sword. I don't want to give people the impression that it's a done deal that they are going to get continued, unless it's a noticing issue. If it's a noticing issue that's easier, we can certainly do that, because we cannot hold the hearing. But if it's something else, a request, they are out of town, they are busy, they haven't finished their plan or whatever, I hate to tell the public that they have requested a continuance and they don't show up and, then, the Commission or the Council denies it and, then, they feel like, well, now I didn't show up, because you told me it was going to continue. So, it is -- it's something we wrestle with a lot internally in how do we make people understand that -- the other part of that is that we have folks that want to testify, because they already showed up and if it's -- again, if it's not a noticing issue legally you can take it, the problem is is they may be talking about something that may be totally irrelevant once the project actually comes in when they come back in two weeks or a month or whatever it is, because they may have changed it and so it -- certainly would be allowed to do it, it just may not be very helpful or relevant, because, again, you are going to have to recall that when you come back, it Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 50 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 46 of 48 may be different, so, again, there is no -- there is no right or wrong answer to that. I just don't want to give people the impression that if you don't show up, then, it will get continued, because, then, they think it's a done deal and, then, it doesn't and, then, we are in the same boat. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Madam Mayor, I hate the idea of punishing the developer who has paid for the meeting for not being ready because he was trying to do what staff asked him to do, make changes that staff said would be a good idea to make, and have the hearing because they didn't show up, because he asked for a continuance, because he was trying to do what was suggested for him to do. But I would hate for us to go on a power trip and start saying, oh, oh, there is public here and the developer is not, so, staff, you ready to go, let's do this thing. Let's avoid that, please. Hood: Yeah. Madam Mayor, I'm going to transition a little bit back to what Bill was saying and maybe even just some of these hypotheticals that we have been talking about with continuances. A little bit different thought, but sort of in the same vein. Even to what Mr. Palmer just said. Developers pay for the application staff time to write a report, for noticing in the newspapers and to cover our costs to go through this process. The other thing that I want to piggyback on this discussion a little bit is staff does spend time with them trying to get the project -- trying to get them to yes. Something that's palatable for all parties that we think meet the intent of everything we have talked about tonight. I'm not sure how to say this gently, politically correct, whatever. Sometimes a project -- you just can't get there. We have had a couple of projects go through the process, the Planning and Zoning Commission maybe didn't like what they saw, it was continued so a developer can make some changes, either they wanted to make or that P&Z wanted them to make and they come back -- meanwhile, staff is still working on it behind the scenes a month later, they get to P&Z, okay, they finally cleared P&Z and our Council -- maybe Council doesn't like it and they want to do something else or, you know, the developer changed something between P&Z and City Council. P&Z didn't see it. Well, Council still doesn't like it. Deny it. You don't have to always remand it back. We spent the time and resources -- and I'm not saying everyone, I'm not advocating for denial all the time. There are some projects sometimes where we are holding their hand too long and there is changes and this and that and we looked at something, it was noticed with this, and we have seen six different site plans now. How many times do I have to look at this and we have -- we have to do different analysis each time on that -- on those six different times. You paid your fee, we are looking at it, we may be looking at it twice -- okay. We have been doing this for six months now trying to work with you, pay your fee again, let's start over, because this is not the same project you applied for back six months ago. Again just general rules. I'm not saying you can't remand stuff back as a general rule. I do like that if -- if you saw something and you wanted to get P&Z's input on, that's fine, but some of these it seems like we may be overthinking. If it's not what -- if it's what they applied for, it's not what you were Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 51 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 47 of 48 hoping to get, start over. Notice it again and start from -- start from beginning, would be just my recommendation on some of these. I'm not saying every time, don't mishear me. I'm not saying we won't work with applicants, don't mishear me, but sometimes we can go a little too far and, meanwhile, we got new projects coming in the queue, so, now we are balancing trying to keep them moving forward -- we got new ones, too, we are trying to write staff reports for. So, it's not about the money either, so -- I'm just saying sometimes it can be a little -- a little cumbersome to review these projects over and over again. De Weerd: Okay. We get it. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Sorry. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Madam Mayor and Caleb, I love his enthusiasm. Sometimes it's really obvious when it's -- when it's that kind of situation and it's been forever, because it's a big project and we all know about it and there was six hours of it, but if it's not one that we would -- it would be obvious that we know, but it's one where you're even spending so much time -- a month and -- let us know. Do that. Or gently let us know, but -- De Weerd: I know. We have been sitting here six hours, too. Anything else? I almost hesitate to ask that. Any other topics that we would like on the -- on the growing list? And I will say that Jessica brought up the schools and the roads. We do have a joint meeting with ACHD on March 8th. We will let the Commission know. So, if you want to come and sit in, listen to the discussion or if there is something in particular that you think would be helpful to have on the agenda, let Caleb know and we can make sure those -- those things are addressed as well. Okay. If there is nothing further, this is a special meeting of the Planning and Zoning Commission and City Council, I would entertain a motion to adjourn that meeting. Milam: So moved. McCarvel: Second. De Weerd: Did you get that? That was Genesis. Okay. All those in favor say aye. Okay. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:11 P.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda March 6, 2018 — Page 52 of 605 Joint Meridian City Council and Planning & Zoning Commission February 13, 2018 Page 48 of 48 `J MA OR T j 9 WEEF- RDLJ DATE APPROVED f - ATTEST: C. JAY COL S, CIT LERK ��:.. �' .�' Cit:• of Meridian City Council Workshop February 13, 2018. A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 3:00 p.m., Tuesday, February 13, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt. Others Present: Bill Nary, C.Jay Coles, Clint Dolsby, Kyle Radek, Caleb Hood, Jeff Lavey, Scott Colaianni, Joe Bongiorno, Cameron Ariel, Dale Bolthouse, Mike Barton, Keith Watts Chris Pope Todd Lavoie and Dean Willis. Item 1: Roll -call Attendance: Roll call. X Anne Little Roberts X Joe Borton X Ty Palmer X Keith Bird X Genesis Milam _X_ Lucas Cavener X Mayor Tammy de Weerd De Weerd: I would like to welcome all of you for -- to our City Council workshop. Thank you for joining us. For the record it is Tuesday, February 13th. It's a few minutes after 3:00. We will start with roll call attendance. Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the pledge to our flag. (Pledge of Allegiance recited.) Item 3: Adoption of Agenda De Weerd: Item 3 is adoption of the agenda. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Item 4-L on the Consent Agenda is coming off to be Item 5-A. And with that change I would move that we adopt the agenda as amended. Cavener: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 2 of 63 MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 4: Consent Agenda the A. Final Order for Tree Farm Subdivision No. 3 (H-2017-0162) by M3 Companies, LLC located north of Chinden Blvd, south of Phyllis Canal and approximately 1/2 mile east of N. Black Cat Road B. Resolution No. 18-2058: A Resolution Of The Mayor And The City Council Of The City Of Meridian Authorizing The City Clerk To Destroy Certain Semi -Permanent And Temporary Records Of The City Of Meridian; And Providing An Effective Date. C. Award of Bid and Approval of Agreement to Asphalt Driveways & Patching for the "LEMP-LARKWOOD PATHWAY" project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of $58,200.00 D. Approval of Award of Bid and Agreement to COONSE WELL DRILLING & PUMP CO., INC. for the BORUP PROPERTY WELL project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of $92,877.25. E. Lease Agreement with the Turf Company and the City of Meridian Regarding Approximately 40 Acres at the South Meridian Regional Park F. Resolution No. 18-2059: A Resolution Approving Lease Agreement with the Turf Company, LLC for Land Owned by the City and Located on Lake Hazel Road, in ADA County Idaho; Authorizing the Mayor and City Clerk to Execute and Attest Said Agreement on Behalf of the City of Meridian; and Providing an Effective Date G. Development Agreement for 2 1/2 Street Townhomes (H-2017- 0066) with Meridian Fairview, LLC (Owner) and Broadbent Properties (Developer) located south of E. Fairview Ave. on the west side of 2 and a Half Street, in the NW 1/4 of Section 7, Township 3N., Range 1 E. (Parcel#s: S1107223065, S1107223070,S1107223090) H. Award of Bid and Approval of Agreement to G&W Electric Company for the "WRRF VACUUM INTERUPT PAD -MOUNTED Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 3 of 63 for near Road SWITCHGEAR" project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of $416,202.00. I. Award of Bid and Approval of Agreement to Platt Electric Supply for the "WRRF Pad -Mounted Liquid Filled Medium Voltage Transformers" project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of $240,253.86. J. Approval of Task Order 10015.A for Professional Services for "Well 33 Test & Production Well Design" to Hydro Logic, Inc. the Not -To -Exceed amount of $97,235.00.. This Task Order is issued in conjunction with the Master Agreement with Hydro Logic dated October 1, 2017. K. Modified Development Agreement for Burlingame Subdivision (H-2017-0055) with Yuriy Mukha(Owner/Developer) located the northweast corner of W. Cherry Lane and N. Black Cat in the SW 1/4 of Section 4, Township 3N., Range 1W M. Award of Bid and Approval of Agreement to Alta Construction for the "ROSE CIRCLE WATER MAIN REPLACEMENT" project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of $245,313.00. N. Approval of a Sole Source Purchase for Fire Department Honeywell Turnout Gear from Municipal Emergency Services. O. AP Invoices for Payment - $2,152,986.21 De Weerd: Item 4 is our Consent Agenda. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: With the removal of Item 4-L I would move that we adopt the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest. Cavener: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the -- or, I'm sorry, to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr. Clerk. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 4 of 63 Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. De Weerd: All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 5: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda A. Moved from Consent Agenda: Award of Change Order No. 5 to JC CONSTRUCTORS, INC. for the "WRRF Liquid Stream Capacity Expansion" project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of $57,707.03. De Weerd: Item 5 we removed L to five, so, Mr. Borton. Borton: Madam Mayor. I had -- in review of the materials on this change order had some initial questions on the basis for additional cost and had some good discussions with both Keith and Clint and I have answered those questions, but there is a little process change we might do going forward with change orders and how it's notated to Council and I think Clint is going to describe that. The issue that I had with this one has been answered, but I think a little process explanation is helpful. Dolsby: Thank you. Madam Mayor and Council Member Borton, what he's speaking about is on the change order form itself. There is four boxes underneath the sections of why is this change necessary. As this particular change order, as with a lot of change orders we do, we check the box that says enter with the plan and specifications, which could lead you down the road to think, well, there was a mistake made, shouldn't we go after the consultant to remedy that error. Well, actuality, an error in plans and specs can be a lot of different things. In this case the errors were completed in the plans and specifications -- like, for instance, one of the changes we had notated that we needed one assembly for -- it's a guide rail to lift a pump out of a basement. Well, we actually needed four, so that in -- I guess if you really looked at it, that's an error in the plans, but, really, we need to buy four assemblies anyway, so buying the extra three isn't really an additional cost to the city, it's equipment that -- equipment that we would purchase regardless of whether we did it under the terms of a change order or in the original contract. So, what Council Member Borton is -- was getting at is that in the future we are going to be more clear with each of the changes in the -- individual changes that are in these change orders to explain what the error in the plans and specifications really is and if it's to do with what I had just described, which is most of the time it's work that we would actually have to pay for whether we paid for it in the original contract or in the form of a change order. Borton: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 5 of 63 De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: And with that I think it will be noted clearly that if that change requires -- it already notes additional time -- additional time creates a new, unique cost to the city or materials that were inadvertently left out. When they ran it back in if there is some unique cost added to it that we wouldn't otherwise have incurred. Somehow that will be spelled out a little more clearly. Dolsby: Yes, Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton. Correct. De Weerd: Any other questions? Borton: No. De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Move that we approve Item 5-A, the change order number five to J.C. Constructors, Inc., in an amount not to exceed $57,707.03. Palmer: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk. Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. De Weerd: All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 6: Community Items/Presentations A. Idaho Humane Society Long Term Direction De Weerd: Okay. Item 6-A is under community presentations. It's regarding the Idaho Humane Society. Dr. Rosenthal. Okay. Or, Mr. Nary, any introduction? Yeah. Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, several months ago Dr. Rosenthal and Leann, who is in the audience, met with myself and Robert Simison to discuss animal control and their new facility and kind of operations and what that would entail and just talked about the future of IHS and what that may hold for both IHS and for the cities and we talked about having a short-term presentation, which you heard last year, to explain some increases Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 6 of 63 in costs and, then, today is to have a dialogue about long term and so that's what we are here for and Dr. Rosenthal is here and I can answer any questions as well as we go along. De Weerd: Okay. And thank you for joining us. Rosenthal: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name is Jeff Rosenthal. I'm a resident of Boise, Idaho. 4775 Dorman Street. Well, thank you for, again, hosting this discussion as it's described. This will consist of just, really, a broad overview -- really a dialogue about where we think we are going moving forward. Also as mentioned our CFO Leann Gilberg, who can answer some financial questions as well. Again, very rough and open at this point. We are looking into the future, looking into future of animal control services to all our municipalities and especially looking for input and direction that invites from you folks, frankly. Just really a -- your program and it definitely is intimately linked to the Idaho Humane Society, so we want to be moving in a direction that Meridian wants to see us moving. We have six major stakeholders in -- providing animal control services and so the challenge is getting everyone on the same page. We have Meridian and Boise, Ada county, Eagle, Kuna, and Garden City and I think the obvious analogy is herding cats. But Meridian being a major partner now with the Idaho Humane Society, we are especially interested in your leadership in how we can bring all the parties together on the same page moving forward. The exciting thing for the Idaho Humane Society is at this time next year -- or maybe in March we will be opening our new facility on Overland Road and this is a fantastic thing for pets in the Treasure Valley. We are going to have a wonderful new veterinary hospital with greatly expanded capacity, a wonderful adoption center, humane education program for children and some other features that really benefit the Idaho Humane Society, but when we started -- when we conceived this campaign in 2007 -- it's been quite some time -- we initially were hoping to move all of our facilities to this new site and we were not able to achieve that from our fundraising and one of the challenges we are looking at is the remaining Dormant Street facility, which, arguably, is a great facility for the purpose -- will remain our intake facility and animal control facility for the time being. So, the challenge is operating two facilities going forward. May create some opportunities as well. Currently as you're aware, we apportion a share of our overall budget of some six million dollars to an animal control budget, which is, then, apportioned to our various communities. It's intended to be an at -cost contract. There is no profit built into it for IHS and it is theoretically based on the share of our overall budget that falls under what is government responsibility, which is animal control enforcement, which is pretty easy to understand, but also taking care of stray animals and getting them to the point where they can be adopted, in which case -- in which point the costs, then, become ours and a lot of the programs we actually provide to pets -- and we have increased the safe rate for the strays and -- and helped out with cruelty cases and et cetera -- really don't fall on the animal control budget at all and there is a listing of a lot of these programs here. Additionally, over the years maintaining our facilities, depreciation and capital repairs, improvements, vehicles, these things have fallen increasingly on the Idaho Humane Society and have not been shared as much among our contracting communities as we might have hoped. Well, the new situation, Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 7 of 63 which, by the way, is going to be very similar, very analogous to what you see in other metro areas in the northwest, like Seattle, like Portland, like Spokane. We will have a quasi -government facility providing animal control services and, then, another Humane Society building where we will be locating most of our Humane Society programs. It may be run by the same organization, but I think it -- I think it will be a much less ambiguous or theoretical -- what costs should be shared with government and which costs should be borne by the Humane Society. The hope also is with the municipalities who are really responsible for funding the Dorman Street facility to an increasing degree, they will have even more input in how that facility is run, what the service levels are, what the personnel should be, what's expected. I think those are going to be good things. But we are going to be hoping to allocate that expense to the municipalities fairly. The -- I think looking around the country we see that municipalities benefit from combining together. If you have communities like Meridian, like Boise, like Eagle, like -- like Kuna, costs go down when we combine our forces to create -- to run these facilities and these enforcement programs. I realize there is always a thought of why don't we do it ourselves, but I would tell you the analogy of a little dog -- a little dog can easily cross the entire Treasure Valley in one day and when we had multiple facilities throughout the valley taking in strays, when someone in Meridian lost their pet they had to look at the Meridian shelter, they had to look at the Boise shelter, they had to look at the Garden City shelter, et cetera. It really makes sense for us to share our -- our program. The cost should be borne by all the communities working together. This is one of those areas where it makes sense. Now -- so, one challenge, obviously, is what will it take to run the Dorman Street facility. I think that's going to become fairly clear as we work forward this year. But the second challenge is how can we get our different government entities to actually pay what's a portion to them and that's been a frustration for the Idaho Humane Society over time. Many of our costs -- actually most of our costs are mostly fixed regardless of our workload. It's just how it works. So, when we derive one animal control budget and, then, go out to six different parties and negotiate their share individually, we end up with different levels of funding and typically we end up with a deficit that's been born by our organization. Moving forward we are not going to be able to bear those kinds of -- to take on that kind of subsidy. When one community doesn't fund to their fair share, then, that cost, then, has to be borne by the other entities. Well, how do we do that when we have already negotiated these contracts. One of the ideas that we have floated with various folks in the valley has been could these entities come together in a joint powers agreement, so Idaho Humane Society was, for instance, negotiating with one -- one entity. The reply has been, well, that doesn't necessarily mean everyone's going to pay. But the example has been shown through how the ambulance service is worked -- is done during -- in the valley that these -- these can function and while there still might be challenges getting each community to buy in to the degree that we would like, it wouldn't fall on the Idaho Humane Society, which I don't think is appropriate that -- that we necessarily have to deal with this particular issue. If the communities could work together and negotiate with us as one party, we feel that would be an advantage and ensure the continuity of the program. That's the main message that I'm here to deliver. Idaho Humane Society's goals are pretty simple and probably shared by all of us. We -- we have made tremendous progress. We talked about the progress we have made in our last meeting. We want to see that save Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 8 of 63 rate maintained and improved and the advancement of animal welfare in Ada county. Everyone wants financial sustainability for the animal control program in fairness. A particular issue for the Idaho Humane Society is providing a living wage for our animal caregivers at all levels. We think that these folks, whether they work for us or work for another entity, should make a fair wage and be able to take home what a -- what a comparable employee say working for a county or city is taking home for a -- for an equal type of work. Those are our main concerns. I have Leann Gilberg here to talk about some of our rough figures for what the increased cost of running the Dorman facility for the municipalities might be. Would also say that this is subject, again, to communication with municipalities. There are opportunities for cost savings. For instance, just in our hours of operation, as just a small example, we are open seven days a week, ten hours a day. Very few animal control facilities throughout the country are open all -- seven days a week and all those hours. So, we can work through different types of scenarios to help find a budget that will work for the Dorman Street facility. But the other issue is, again, that, you know, capital improvements will be required over time and the facility is a great asset, but we do feel that the costs of maintaining the facility do need to fall on the municipal partners and with that I have -- unless there is any specific questions at this time, have Leann come up and talk a little bit about some financial issues or can answer questions now if there are any that are coming to mind. De Weerd: Council, any questions at this time? Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Ms. Milam. Milam: When you're talking about the hours, seven days a week, like for people to come pick pets up, I'm assuming that you do animal control hours beyond that. Rosenthal: Madam Mayor, Council Milam, animal control needs to function 24 hours a day. But in terms of retrieving a stray pet, particularly now with -- with very simple technology, it will be much easier in the future to determine whether your pet is in our shelter, for instance. We don't necessarily have to have three people sitting at a front desk for ten hours a day. There are opportunities to get animals home at less cost and I think those things can be explored. But, yes, we have to have enforcement 24 hours a day. That's required on -- Milam: Thank you. De Weerd: Okay. Anyone else at this point? Thank you. Gilberg: Madam Mayor -- De Weerd: Good Afternoon. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 9 of 63 Gilberg: -- Council Members. Do you want me to introduce myself? De Weerd: Yes. Gilberg: I'm Leann Gilberg. I'm the chief financial officer at the Idaho Humane Society. Address 4775 Dorman Street in Boise. De Weerd: Thanks, Leann. Gilberg: Before I show you these numbers I want to put a big disclaimer there. These are very preliminary. I tried to be extremely conservative. I would much rather come in high and be able to go down than to show you a number and, then, say, oh, no, it's actually going to be double. Currently our budget is 6.4 million dollars, approximately. That is for our entire operation at Dorman Street. We have about 101 FTEs. Under our projected plans with the new facility, we will move adoptions, our public veterinary center, our special programs and our administration over to the Overland facility. The budget I am looking at projecting there is between 4.8 and 5.5 million dollars, with about 67 FTEs. So, then, I break out the Dorman animal control operation. That includes your animal control officers, your dispatchers, personnel to be at the shelter currently scheduled seven days a week, ten hours a day, for intake or for public drop off of strays. People to come in and redeem their animals, come to look for lost animals and also to care for those animals that we have in our possession until we find their owners or they become available for adoption. Different modeling -- I'm using a lot of different modeling ideas. Again, this is a very preliminary estimate and as Dr. Rosenthal said, we would like to work with you guys and the other municipalities in order to be able to come up with a solution that meets all of our needs and that may change up the modeling a little bit. But as he also mentioned, our costs are primarily fixed. About two- thirds of our costs -- and it's interesting, two-thirds of our costs are personnel costs out of our budget now and out of our projected budgets going forward. I just reviewed information from probably 20 different shelters around the nation and they are all in that same category. We all run about two-thirds of costs -- our personnel costs. It's a highly labor intensive workforce given the nature of the work. Currently our animal control contracts combined pay about 1.8 million dollars. Meridian pays 381,000. As I mentioned before, the projected cost of the stand-alone facility is probably around 2.5 million, plus or minus a couple hundred thousand. Meridian's portion right now, based on population base and usage -- and when I say usage I mean the number of service calls that we get from Meridian residents in relation to all the service areas that we service is about 21 percent and, unfortunately, you know, if one of the smaller players, such as say an Eagle or a Kuna drops out, our costs don't change proportionately; right? Because their proportionate share was like four percent and we can't change our staffing by four percent to make a difference. To give you an idea of what everybody is paying and what the projected range could be -- again, I used -- for the low end of the range 2.5 million. It could be slightly lower than that. Meridian is at 381,000 right now. If we went up to two and a half million total, Meridian's share would be 513,000, up to 574,000. So, that's an increase of anywhere from 130, 190 thousand dollars a year. Again, very conservative estimate. If you look in the far right-hand column of this slide, the Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 10 of 63 population bases are showing -- you can see that Meridian is about 20 percent of the total population base that we service. What's interesting to note, though, is that it's still less than $6.75 per capita overall and Meridian's range is only $5.34 to $6.40 per capita based on current population and usage. And to kind of put that in perspective, here is a comparison of -- oops. Sorry. Oops. Can we back up there? No. I'm driving it? Okay. Sorry. Here, let me -- this is kind of an interesting slide, actually. So, to put it in perspective, here is a comparison of the per capita animal control expenses for some comparable communities based on available information. Taxpayers of Ada county and municipalities within Ada county have enjoyed extraordinarily low animal care and control expense for many decades, arguably saving tens of millions of dollars during the 76 years that IHS has been in this role, compared to most comparable communities in the northwest. This includes massive savings on capital expenses, because Spokane county spent 15 million dollars on their animal control facility in 2013. Washo county spent approximately 16 million on their facility in 2009. And you can see that Ada county is paying on average for the whole county about four dollars, whereas Pocatello is paying 19 dollars. So, the cost per capita here is really reasonable compared to some of our comparable communities. And that's all I have prepared, so I would entertain questions. De Weerd: Council, questions? Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Madam Mayor. Ms. Gilberg, help me understand some -- are you guys struggling to collect on the contracts that you have with other municipalities? Gilberg: Not struggling to collect. Struggling to get certain municipalities up to the level that they need to be in order to fully participate at the level of usage and population base that they are at. Palmer: Madam Mayor. And I wasn't here when the transition happened to -- to the service, as opposed to the city running it. Was the -- the contracts from the cities -- was it anticipated that they be sufficient to help cover more than just the animal control services? Gilberg: Council Member Palmer, I'm not exactly sure I understand the question. Palmer: Madam Mayor. I don't know. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but it seems like what you're asking is that we pay more to be able to help cover your new building and other things, other than dealing with strays and whatever else is animal control. Gilberg: I understand. Council Member and Madam Mayor, the difference going forward is that we right now share one facility with animal control, sheltering, adoption services and our veterinary hospital. We divide the cost of all of our -- we divide all of Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 11 of 63 our operating costs by those three functions. We allocate based on square footage for certain things, such as utility costs. We allocate based on number of animals brought in between shelter and animal control. So, like if it's a -- straight from the public or if it's animal control bring in, that goes to one bucket. If it's an animal that we transfer in from say a California shelter or something, that goes into a different bucket, and we use percentages based on where those animals come from to allocate costs to the animal control contracts or just our own shelter and, then, for overhead type items, not necessarily animal costs, but overhead items we also allocate like a third to our medical center. Like operating supplies and that nature. What's changing is we are no longer going to be sharing those costs with animal control, because our new facility doesn't have an animal control piece and it doesn't have an intake facility. We need to cover the cost of operating an animal control facility without being able to share it with our public, hospital, and our adoption process. Does that answer your question? Palmer: Madam Mayor. If I -- I guess if I understand. So, then, because you chose to expand and open your new facility, you need more money from us to be able to manage your old -- to be able to keep open your old facility? Gilberg: We have changed our operation model. Yes, I guess you can say that we are changing our operating model to be more consistent. The reason that we are building a new facility is because it has a lot better visibility for adoptions. It will be much more of an adoption friendly facility versus a pound kind of location. And as Dr. Rosenthal mentioned, we had planned to move animal control over, but all of our funding is coming from donors and, unfortunately, we haven't been able to raise the money to build the additional facility to move that part of the operation over as well. De Weerd: Okay. Other questions? Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: I'm in the same boat as Councilman Palmer. I wasn't here when the original agreement was made, so I have a question for Council and maybe you folks. Was the original agreement that we had -- did it include adoption as well or were we only responsible for the portion that Councilman Palmer stated in regard to animal control? De Weerd: Chief, do you want to answer that? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, when the negotiations were entered into IHS the agreement was that they would cover all animal control duties. That was adoption, that was medical care, that was animal control, that was everything that we were providing at the time, just at a very inconsistent and against community expectations as far as a city. We didn't do it well. The idea behind it was that we would have one organization that could provide 24 hour coverage, that could provide the consistency that our community expected across the valley and also that as our city grew that we Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 12 of 63 would have to pay more. If you will notice on that last slide that she showed, the first two cities that are mentioned provide their own animal control facilities, yet pay the highest amount per population. We cannot do this as an individual city and do it well and be cost effective. So, I have been working with the chiefs and the sheriff to have discussions about the future and where do we go, because we can't go back to the way we used to do it. I don't know what that entails, but we have to do something. And that is why they are here today, is because we have to start that dialogue now, instead of waiting down the road when they go, surprise, it's all yours again. So, that's why we have to start talking about it now. So, hopefully, that answers -- answers the questions. Bernt: Thank you. Gilberg: Madam Mayor, if I may. We are not proposing to change the scope of what we are doing. We are still providing the same exact service, it's just in our structure is changing, because our locale and our infrastructure is changing. We are growing just like City of Meridian is growing. Our infrastructure is changing. We are not changing what we are providing, it's just the cost of what we are providing is increasing because we now have to cover our own costs at the other facility and when we first negotiated with Meridian, which I believe it was four years ago, we had anticipated that we were going to move animal control over with the new facility. We have had to significantly downsize the new facility based on the amount of funding and the cost of construction. When our capital campaign was begun several years ago we were in an economic downturn and construction costs were down. We are now in the height of building and we are seeing on a daily basis increases in our construction costs. So, it's just -- unfortunately, we have been kind of subject to what the economy has done, as well as everybody has. De Weerd: Any other questions? Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Ms. Gilberg, I appreciate what you're -- this is not, obviously, an exciting presentation to come to make. I'm sure you weren't excited that you got to come and present this to us, so I'm trying to take that into consideration. I'm trying to look at this through the eyes of -- of a Meridian city taxpayer and if they were to come up and ask me what benefit they get for the city if we were willing to spend the amount that you're requesting, what changes are they going to see? Is there -- is there -- I'm not seeing anything and I'm struggling -- none of us were on the Council when that contract was first engaged, but this is something that's very important to me and I was a strong proponent of the city ran services and I'm a strong proponent of the Meridian Humane Society and our volunteers. I'm struggling to see what benefit or value we bring to the taxpayers for the additional funds that you are requesting. You guys were here a couple of months ago and were asking for additional funds to -- and the big piece that stuck with me is you want to be able to provide a living wage for your staff, which I Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 13 of 63 wholeheartedly supported. This one is really hard to wrap my head around as to what benefit our community receives over and above what we are already receiving as a result of this request. Can you help educate me, so that I can educate them? Gilberg: Councilman Cavener, Madam Mayor, what we provide is -- you're right in that it's not going to be a different service per se, but it's going to be -- and Dr. Rosenthal can correct me -- you want to correct me? Rosenthal: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, the rest of the Council, if you don't mind, let me just kind of -- and I'm going to flip that question around a little bit and say this is an add cost contract and certainly it has been intimate to the function of the humane society for -- since 1945. The humane society was formed -- interestingly not so much to save animals from mean people in the community or off the street, but, actually, to save animals from government, because when the Idaho Humane Society was formed the city of Boise was running a horrendous pound in which animals were left to starve, they were shot and they were left to decompose in their kennels. The humane society was formed by an outpouring of community anger to provide an alternative to government running these facilities and for years the humane society has -- because of that heritage in many humane societies around the country have a similar heritage -- said, well, we have to do this, because it will be so horrible if the police department does it or the government does it. Well, that's no longer the case at all. Some of the finest facilities in the country for animals are run by government and there is very little difference anymore. The question is what does the Idaho Humane Society subsidizing animal control costs for Ada county do for the Idaho Humane Society today. I think what we are saying here is we have evolved as an organization. There is very little that we benefit from when we are going around the valley writing tickets for barking dogs, dealing with dangerous animals -- sure, saving animals off the street, I can put my arms around that one. Taking an injured animal from an animal control officer and providing really fantastic veterinary care that probably no other humane society anywhere in the northwest is able to provide. That I can wrap my hands around. But more and more -- and I think what we saw happen in this capital campaign is emblematic. What did our donors tell us? The donors told us we were going to pay for a new adoption facility. We love that. We are going to pay for a new veteran hospital. We love that. We are going to pay for a humane education facility. We love that. Oh, you want four to five million dollars more to replicate your -- we hate this term -- but pound -- pound function? No, we are not going to fund that. That in every -- why would the donors of Ada county fund that way when in every other community in the northwest government funds that. Government provides those sheltering facilities. Well, we haven't had that. We have borne a very, very large proportion. All of the capital expenses, the current shelter, the new shelter, all borne by our donors. None of it borne by the taxpayers. There are certain costs in animal control that I think legitimately fall on government to fund and I think that's all we are saying here is, look, we wish the donors had added onto our facility, so we could have been a little more efficient and maybe brought those costs down, but the costs are still very low compared to really any other place you look at in the northwest and, really, a lot of places around the country. In the future, you know, it would be great to add onto our current facility and that's Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 14 of 63 currently, you know, a long term plan, but I think what the Idaho Humane Society is saying is we provided this wonderful asset in the Dorman Street shelter, it's there for government to fund and run. You're saving five million bucks right there, but the days of the Idaho Humane Society asking our donors to fund what costs should fall on local government, are -- they have to end to a certain degree and that's -- that's where we are at right now. All the municipalities that currently work for us are just going to -- work with us are going to have to make a decision. Do they want to work together and make an affordable -- you know, a well-run animal control program, whether it's run by us or run by someone else. We are open to any solution. But I cannot -- my organization cannot subsidize animal control in the future. We are just not in that situation anymore. That's where we are at. Thanks. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: I'm all about contracting anything out that we can, because most of the time private sector knows a lot better than government how to do anything pretty much. A couple of the things that you mentioned is that -- to your cost or personnel and one way you mentioned you would be able to save a lot if you weren't open for 70 hours for redemptions in the week. Anything like that that you can find to be able to bring this number down I think would be very important, because understanding that you -- you mentioned the preliminary numbers and there are only estimates at this point, but 35 to 50 percent increase is impalatable. I think 15 to 20 percent increase I impalatable. Understanding we probably can't do it cheaper, but, please, find whatever ways you can to -- you're going above and beyond with incredible service. You know, when it comes to animal control services if somebody is in a situation where they -- you guys pick up their dog, I think a few hours less than 70 hours a week opportunity to redeem it to make it easier on the rest of the taxpayers would be beneficial. Whatever you can do to bring the number down please do. Rosenthal: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I totally agree that there are a lot of opportunities here and there are things that we proposed in the past, but I think because, you know, we had less community involvement in some of the details of what we did that folks maybe didn't want to pursue them. We -- for instance, barking dog complaints were -- that's a prime example. That's one of the number one complaints we go out on. Well, what are we in those cases? We are a paper shuffler. We don't witness the dog barking. We are not there at 11:00 p.m. It's -- in other communities this has become kind of a self -serve -- you can file a complaint and find your day in court kind of a thing. You don't need an animal control officer to come out and have a citation served. There is a lot of good opportunities to save money and become more efficient and also -- and I -- and, Councilman Cavener, I haven't forgotten about some of your requests and we have -- we are getting information together with you. But in addition, very interested in what happens on the side of prosecution and in the courts it's very frustrating, for instance, for animal control officers to be paid by you folks, go out and write citations, and see a lot of these complaints dismissed in the court. We would like Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 15 of 63 to have more information about why some of these cases are being thrown out and getting more in sync with prosecution and police and we are all on the same page and we are doing what the -- you know, what you folks want us to do. So, I think there are a lot of opportunities for savings that -- that don't decrease the overall service level and I think technology will provide a lot of that as well. So, thank you very much for those comments. We will try our best. De Weerd: Well, we appreciate the perspective and the dialogue that's happened today. When the city went into a contract with IHS we were in the midst of losing our facility, so we had a choice of building a brand new one and operating it ourselves to a different level and an expected level. When we contracted with you we weren't just dogs, we were serving all of our citizens, not just the dog owners. So, you did give an increase in level of service when we moved to our contract. If we had our own facility and we continue to experience our growth, in addition to everyone else's, we would be looking at the same thing you're doing now. So, this was -- this is part of a cost model that certainly when we thought we would be in the new facility and many of your donors are our citizens as well, but I understand that separating the two probably is a good move to allowing more local control on the animal control side of things. I would suggest to have some kind of a GPA type of a thing where you have a joint powers group that provides feedback, gains that accountability, understands the numbers and costs and talks operationally in terms of what can be done to reduce costs and find better efficiencies. So, those are all dialogues that as you move forward and solidify some of these numbers, that each of your contracts have an opportunity to weigh in and to help problem solve, because I think some of that can be done with -- with stakeholder groups. Rosenthal: Thank you very much. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Dr. Rosenthal, isn't there a fee associated when you come and pick up the dog, but your dog that was roaming around and where are those fees included and how much do they offset? Gilberg: Madam Councilman, Madam Mayor, there are fees. We -- we remit some of those fees to the City of Meridian. So, they are not completely available to us to cover our costs. For example, redemptions, though -- and we were talking Meridian 3,000 dollars in pound fees for Meridian, we remit all of those. Drop-off fees, 7,000 -- they are pretty small and as a portion of a retained is included in our revenue base, yes, but it's been factored in. Little Roberts: Follow up. So, am I understanding, then, that most of the animals that are picked up are, then, adopted out, they are not returned to their owners with fees included? Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 16 of 63 Rosenthal: Most -- sorry, Council Woman, Madam Mayor, actually most of the animals are returned to their owners. It's just those impound fees don't amount to that much and they are -- most of them are passed on. We have a boarding fee, which is a very small fee that IHS retains, but the rest of the impound fees are typically, with the exception of Ada county, passed back on to the -- the cities that we contract with. Now, some of those, then, come back to us, obviously, to offset the General Fund expenditures. And those are tracked by -- I belief the city clerk on a monthly basis. Gilberg: Yeah. We remit monthly and I think we retain like ten percent for processing or something of that nature. Little Roberts: Okay. Thank you. Palmer: Madam Mayor? 914T [=2 4Mdinm m Palmer: Madam Mayor, what do we do with that money? De Weerd: Mr. Clerk? Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, so the -- the amount that's actually kept by the vendor we changed a couple of years ago from the ten percent to 50 percent now. So, it's a 50 percent split with our vendors and that helps cover the staff cost in terms of mailing out fee, the tags -- entering the tags into the system. So, it's a fee based on offering the service in terms of tag -- providing the tag and in covering our costs of staff time, which is the only thing that fees can cover from the city standpoint. We can't -- we can't earn money, all we can do is recover our costs for that service. Palmer: Madam Mayor? So, the tag fees aren't covering the cost of doing tags? Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, they are. That's exactly what they are covering, because we don't make money on that. We are simply using that money -- or I guess collecting that fee to provide that service. We don't make the money, we just -- it's the fee that covers the service. Palmer: Madam Mayor? Okay. Now, I'm lost. So, the money that -- from somebody coming to pick up their long lost -- Gilberg: Redemption. Palmer: -- Fido -- De Weerd: Yeah. That's different from your dog license fee. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 17 of 63 Palmer: Yeah. That money. So, you're keeping that? Gilberg: We remit any -- every municipal is different, so I apologize if I'm -- all this isn't exactly right, because every municipality is literally different. My recollection is that we -- we do emit redemption fees. So, whatever the -- whatever is in your code that says this is what you're going to pay if your dog is caught at large and it's going to be this much or this much if not -- that that we collect we remit back to the City of Meridian. We, then, retain -- if there is a boarding fee -- like if it's there for three days, we charge a minimal boarding fee. If there is a vaccination fee or whatever. However, that being said, for every three people that come in one of them screams at us and we end up taking the boarding fees off and whatever else and the only thing we end up ultimately collecting is what we are required to remit back to the cities. So, we do try to remit anything under your ordinances back to you. Palmer: Madam Mayor? Don't do that and what do we do with that money? De Weerd: I would imagine it goes to the police department under their line item for revenues. Is that collected through you and the contract? Lavey: Madam Mayor, we have to consult with Finance to know exactly where it goes now because of the transition over, because the clerk's office did take a lot of stuff from us that the police department had, but it used to come in under revenue generated in the police side and it diverts back to General Fund. So, it goes back into the city General Fund and, then, we get to hash out where it goes next year. De Weerd: Yeah. I think what the clerk's office -- they kept only the dog licensing piece. Everything else kept in the Police Department and that does go under their anticipated revenue aspect. Lavey: But, Madam Mayor, we are only talking thousands of dollars, we are not talking about any large amounts of money that's going to help solve this issue. This is way beyond what monies we bring in to solve that issue. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: While it's not large it is a few home's worth of their entire property taxes to the city, so I mean it would make sense to me that they are doing all the work, may as well hold onto the money and have that offset, so we didn't have to pay them in the future, even if it is a few thousand dollars, so -- my next question is what are we looking at on timing to -- to know how much you were starting to budget in October? I assume you're not -- you're going to want more than 381 come October. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 18 of 63 Rosanthal: Madam Mayor, Council Members, yes, I would assume this is going to be something we will discuss in the next budget cycle and hopefully we will have made a lot more progress before then and I would anticipate another meeting with all of our stakeholders prior to that time. There is simply going to have to be more communication this year than we have in the past, so we are all comfortable moving forward and it looks like from our calculations with our construction and move in that in the third quarter of the next fiscal year we will be in a new situation and we will need to make sure that the Idaho Humane Society can -- can remain whole through that process that year. De Weerd: Well, the changes that -- that Council had a heads up on would be effective during our next budget year effective August 1 st -- I mean October 1 st. Sorry. Rosanthal: Yes, Mayor. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Well, just listening to this process from a business perspective is making me crazy. It seems now that you have -- you're separating your model. You have two separate facilities, that everything needs to be kept separate. If you're going to have salaries paying for the Dorman facility and, then, that should be completely separate from the Overland facility and any monies that come into the facility should be put towards the base cost of that facility and, then, you take the difference of -- which we know is still a lot and, then, you divide that up the way that it should be and you -- shouldn't be paying you admin fees to write checks back to cities all over the place. That just seems like so much extra work and it doesn't make any sense. At least with the new model it doesn't make any sense. That was my -- so, maybe consider that at least when you're putting together your structure. Rosanthal: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there are other opportunities for -- I think personally more efficient processes. For one thing potentially a county -wide licensing where everybody in the county pays into -- and it could happen with a joint powers agreement where everyone is simply paying into one system, so we don't have redundant positions all over the county handling license fees, for example, and issuing licenses. If we have one central animal control facility, one licensing program, one group doing licensing, one group issuing licenses, there is lots of opportunities like that I think to explore and it's one opportunity with this kind of transition. Additionally, I will mention, because this always comes up with the Boise city council, the membership of Ada county as a stakeholder is a little different than the other communities they would say because of their taxing ability, which is not something that we can argue necessarily, but Boise city is always interested in talking with the county about them paying more and in most communities around the country it is the county that takes the primary responsibility for animal control within the county, even though there are Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 19 of 63 incorporated cities throughout. So, I will just throw that forth. That's a job for you folks and not so much for me. Thank you. Gilberg: Madam Mayor, Council -- De Weerd: We were just trying to be behaved, because we would have said the same thing, but we were behaving ourselves. Leann. Gilberg: Madam Mayor, Council Members, one thing you will note in the projections that I put up, I did not assess anything to the county, other than their proportionate share based on their population and their usage and so if they were to pick up a county wide assessment say it would substantially reduce what the different municipalities would potentially -- De Weerd: Well, I was going to tell you that your population number for the county was wrong, because their population number is the entire population and I think that's what Boise was saying is you're showing an incorporated Ada county, yet we are all county residents and that -- that is the -- the argument and the rub with most of the cities is we pay the same amount of taxes that unincorporated at county does and so we are all Ada county residents. Gilberg: I based my numbers simply on our conversations with them and the stance that they take, so -- Rosanthal: However, it should be noted that currently Ada county does pay more than their popular -- their integral population would -- would indicate and that potentially could continue and, actually, be expanded on. But, again, we feel we -- we have attempted to raise an argument with them, but without the other communities coming together in assisting I don't think that could happen. Thank you. De Weerd: We love putting people in the middle. Any other questions, comments? No? Well, thank you for coming and having this difficult discussion and I guess, chief, I assume that Lieutenant Colaianni is the assigned individual from the city that -- Lavey: If he wasn't he can be. De Weerd: Isn't he over community services? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, so now you know why we invited him here today. So, I was kind of sugar coating the discussion we had in October, but some of the information that was given to us was -- was concerning for long term. Where do we go. What do we do. How do we cover it. And so that's why we wanted to get in front of you and have this dialog. So, I really appreciate the dialogue we had today. With Councilman Palmer, your -- your statements are exactly what we were talking about is what do we do, how do we do it, how do we reduce the costs, how do we provide the service for our citizens and be the most efficient. And so this is the start of that. I don't know where it Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 20 of 63 will end up. Lieutenant Colaianni has been overseeing the contract and community service and stuff over the years. Hadn't really decided who the contact person was for this particular incident, but I think we just now assigned it to him, so we will make it happen. De Weerd: Scott, I really didn't mean to assign it to you, just the assumption of sorts. Certainly whoever is the most appropriate and who has been working with this contract, because, you know, there -- there is a contract oversight and that's the appropriate person. Certainly we want an elected official to -- to be part of those discussions as well and since Mrs. Milam has this business acumen, I think -- Lavey: Madam Mayor -- De Weerd: -- or I'm sorry, Mrs. Little Roberts has also run a business, so -- Lavey: Madam Mayor, I have expressed -- or I have notified my Council liaison, which is Anne Little Roberts, and so she's aware of this. But my previous liaison Councilman Milam, also has been notified of this, because she was my previous Council liaison. So, there is electeds that already know what's going on and for Meridian I don't see that really being -- really being in the issue. The issue is trying to get all the partners, all the stakeholders together just to work as one team. That's the struggle. And we know where that potentially is going to be the barriers and so we have to figure how to overcome that. So, we will work on it. Or we could bring Lieutenant Overton back. He was the -- the one that was in charge of this contract for years and years and years and he retired on us and we really haven't had a person in charge of it per se since then, because he just left us and so we could bring him back as a contract employee and he could oversee it. I'm sure he would enjoy that. Between myself and Scott we will make it -- we will make it happen. B. Idaho Transportation Department Update on State Highway 69 Project De Weerd: Thank you. Item 6-B is under the Idaho Transportation Department update on State Highway 69 projects and so I will turn this over to Caleb. Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Today we have Daris Bruce with ITD and Brendan Coates with RBCI, who has contracted with ITD to do some of their public outreach. Just a little bit of information by way of background and introduction here. A couple of months ago Erika Bowen from ITD presented to Meridian's Transportation Commission an upcoming project on State Highway 69, just south of the interstate. Part of that presentation and discussion I had subsequent with Ms. Bowen was a request for city staff to go with them to knock on the business doors as their -- informing the business owners of the impacts to the business and we thought that before ITD goes out there that you all should know what the project is, should any questions or comments or complaints come your way. So, that's really the intent is for Mr. Bruce to kind of run through what this project is and maybe a little bit on -- on their outreach efforts that are Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 21 of 63 -- that are imminent here. So, with that I will -- Madam Mayor, if you want to turn it over to them to give their presentation I will pull up the flyer. De Weerd: Thank you. Good afternoon. Bruce: Good afternoon, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Please accept my apology, I'm just a -- kind of a simple engineer, so I want to make sure I use your protocols and communicate with you, but, please, excuse it if I miss it, so -- De Weerd: If you will just state your name for the record. Bruce: My name is Daris Bruce. And do you need my address? De Weerd: We know where to find you. Bruce: It's Meridian, so at least I live here; right? My name is Daris Bruce. I'm the resident engineer for the State Highway 69 pavement rehabilitation project. The project consists of rehabilitating State Highway 69 from Kuna all the way to the Overland intersection. Basically what we are doing is going out and replacing a plant mix for overlaying plant mix to rejuvenate the surface and extend the surface life of that highway. Two things we are actually adding to it. There are signals going in at Lake Hazel and Hubbard. Those will be new signals that are added to State Highway 69. We will also be looking at some of the ADA, which is the Americans With Disabilities Act, ramps that exist in the area that need to be upgraded to meet the current ADA requirements. So, there will be replacements taking place at the Victory intersection, as well as the Overland intersection. That's basically we will have to go out and jack hammer out the existing ramps and replace those. The project is scheduled to start sometime in July. We have a contract start date between July 7th and August 8th and the contract will run for about a month and a half. It will be all night work. As you can imagine if we get out there and take a lane on that thing we wouldn't hear the end of it, which I kind of don't like that, so it will be all night work. Some of the work on the side with the ramps will take place during the day, just because that makes it easier. It will take shoulder closures, but, basically, we are hoping that you will not see much of us out there. The contract is currently out to bid, so it has not been awarded and it opens within the next two weeks and, hopefully, we have good bids we will be able to award and, then, be on track for starting construction, as I said sometime in July through August and, then, be completed within a month and a half. Of particular concern -- the reason why we are working with Caleb was we -- we and our traffic engineer, who is Erika Bowen, came up with a plan to address the congestion that we see right now on the northbound side of State Highway 69 -- Meridian Road. Sorry. Meridian Road coming into Overland. We have -- and I'm sure that you're probably well aware of it -- have some issues with congestion there in the morning and have identified ways that once this project is done we will change the lane configuration coming into that intersection, as well as some of the signal heads, so that we end up with a dedicated right-hand turn bay going onto Overland, so that individuals wishing to get to Overland will not block the people wishing to get to the interstate. That's one improvement that Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 22 of 63 we are putting in there. To trade off there we are taking away one of the left-hand turn lanes that is for south -- or, excuse me, for northbound Meridian to westbound Overland. So, we are taking away one of those. Looking to the traffic counts there is no detrimental effect of that, because there is very low turn movement for that -- that particular movement. We will be putting in a medium barrier. The medium barrier is going to be pretty much a curb that's about ten inches wide at its base, about six inches at its surface -- or above the surface and 30 feet intervals in that -- in that medium barrier there will be what are called glue down tubular markers. Those are 30 inches tall. You have seen them in other areas. ACHD uses them. They will be yellow with reflective tape on them. That's just to make that barrier more visible and the left barrier is going in to preclude left-hand turn moments all the way to Calderwood and, basically, the reason why we have to put in the barrier is is that with the improvements with the restripe we anticipate that we will have higher throughput with traffic, which makes that left turn movement more hazardous. We, unfortunately, haven't had too many opportunities for conflicts with the left turning movement. I imagine law enforcement can attest to that. We have had accidents out there with rear -end collisions and sideswipes, more consistent with people exhibiting poor behavior when it's congested and not turning. But, once again, with that higher throughput when we restripe we will have issues -- or could potentially have issues with the left turn movement, so we are taking them out. The reason why we had approached Caleb and the city was we were looking at going and talking to the business owners south of the Overland -Meridian Road intersection and discussing what that change in access would look to them and that's basically I think -- and I don't want to put words in his mouth -- Mr. Hood's mouth, but I think that's one reason why he wanted us to come and talk to you today and -- De Weerd: So, you haven't talked to the businesses yet? Bruce: We have initiated contact with some and -- Brandon Coates is our -- our outreach person. We hire them to actually come help us talk to people, get the message out and we have initiated some contacts. I'm not sure how far those have gone, so that's -- Coates: Thank you. Madam Mayor, Council Members, so -- De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name for the record. Coates: Brandon Coates with RBCI. De Weerd: Thank you. Coates: So, this -- this week we -- we put on hold going out to the business owners until we could speak to the Council. This week we have days planned -- Thursday we were going to go out to all the businesses and do a walking tour, going and talk to them, give them the handout that we provided you and, then, I will talk to them about the accesses and the access change and what that will mean and that's what's planned for this week, so -- Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 23 of 63 De Weerd: And know I don't want to shoot the messengers, but if the city doesn't agree that this is a good proposal, does that mean anything? Bruce: Madam Mayor, yes, it definitely does. Milam: Madam Mayor? Oh, sorry. DIMUTcZaTli fir �inFTii11 Milam: Well, so I had a question for you -- and I know what the businesses are going to say, it's going to hurt their business. This is their -- this is their blood, sweat and tears, it's their life, and you said you put these medians in, because it might cause a problem on the left turns. Couldn't you leave them out and put them in if there is a problem? Because it definitely, no matter what, is going to hurt those businesses. Bruce: That is something we could consider. Our plan right now is to install them. We had worked with law enforcement, as well as Ada county and I do not know who at the city we had talked with before. I know that Erika had identified this plan and presented it and worked with somebody, so that's kind of -- we are kind of caught between a rock and a hard space, but we can still definitely consider that and look at that option. De Weerd: It will also save money. Bruce: It definitely would save money. The problem is is that we -- as we have seen on Eagle Road the reason why the medians went in on Eagle Road is we had fatalities for left turns. I installed the medians on the Eagle Road and I actually live off of Eagle Road and solid benefit with that and there is definitely a tangible benefit to putting in medians. Milam: Madam Mayor? And I do understand on Eagle Road was necessary, especially in the mid strip where the speed limit -- you know, people are going pretty fast. We are talking about an area where, except where speed limit is lower, people aren't flying through their generally, because you have got the signal, I just don't -- personally I would say we -- but if you -- if you talk to all of the businesses and they all say no problem, we don't have a problem with this, that would change my mind, but that's the only way you're going to change my mind. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? myiyr=2 411■Til01111IRf[ 0061•Taim Little Roberts: I'm really concerned. I worked with the businesses in another capacity when the medians went in at Eagle and Chinden and it caused great harm to a lot of those businesses, to the point that one of them even closed, and so -- so, access is critical in my opinion and so my question is on Calderwood is that going to be enhanced Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 24 of 63 for more access, since that's how a lot of people are going to be getting to those businesses, especially on the corner of West Overland, like where the new Cap Ed is and that area? Bruce: Councilmember, Madam Mayor, Calderwood will pretty much remain as it is right now with -- it's not a controlled intersection with a signal, so we will not be putting in a signal. It will remain as it is. Striping is going to remain pretty much as it is. There will definitely allow for the U-turn movement for southbound traffic to do a U-turn to come back north, but as it is pretty much now that's how it would be striped. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts. Little Roberts: Is it possible to look at a signal at Calderwood if that becomes a problem? Is that within the parameters? It seems like it's too close to the Overland signal. Bruce: Council Member, Madam Mayor, for this project it probably would be too late for that. I have to admit I'm more the construction materials engineer and not the traffic engineer. What we would look at there is we would have to look at a warrant to see if the turning moments would warrant that with our projected future turning activities. Also in addition to that we would have to go through and do a traffic impact study and that would be something that we work in partnership with ACHD to determine what the impacts of the signal would -- would have on the -- on, essentially, the corridor there. Intuitively speaking that might -- well, I shouldn't say intuitively speaking, because I don't know. I'm sorry. I will wait for empirical data. Sorry. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? I would certainly agree with Councilman Milam that I would recommend we leave the barriers out, if at all possible, and see if they at that point needed to be added. If the construction of the added access can resolve a lot of the traffic issues -- because it will have a detriment on those businesses. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: I'm no traffic engineer, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express and so I'm looking at your -- your map here I know it says map is not to scale, but my question is going northbound is it going to make it where all three lanes will enter the intersection, shift right, be able to continue through the intersection or will they be able to go exactly straight on from the center of the lane through the intersection? Bruce: The shift will take -- Council Member, Madam Mayor, the shift will take place back further between the Calderwood and the Overland intersection. So, there will be a subtle transition as the through lanes move over to occupy the existing -- for lack of a Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 25 of 63 better description -- right hand, left turn, that goes onto West Overland. So, they will shift over a little bit, that 12 feet, but it will be a subtle shift in between those two intersections and, then, they will line up and go straight up and hit the intersection at the top of the interchange. I hope I interpreted your question. Palmer: Madam Mayor? So, they will shift left, though; right? Left though right. Left to occupy the existing left turn lane; is that what you're saying; right? Bruce: Council Member -- yes. Palmer: Oh. Okay. So, I think seeing now -- it will be also changed on the other side of Overland, so that you can actually go straight, not have to do what you do over at McMillan and Meridian I think, where if you enter the intersection you go straight you're going to find a curb. That won't happen here? Bruce: That will not happen. Palmer: Awesome. So, I like it -- De Weerd: Okay. Does our PD wish to add anything to this discussion? Lavey: Madam Mayor, Council, the Police Department has not been popular when it -- when we come in front of Council when we have these discussions and you pay us to think about community safety and the barriers will provide that safety that we need. Without the barriers we have a lot more crashes. It's your jobs to think about the commerce. It's our job to think about public safety and all we can do is provide you with our subject matter expert testimony, which is what we do, and, then, you have to look at -- if we don't put the barriers in now and we put them in later, how much more money does that cost us because we delayed it? So, we are going to push for the barriers after we -- well, we would like to push for the barriers, but we also know that we have to talk to the businesses and if the businesses outweigh that safety concept and that's what you choose, then, that's what we go forward with. You know, ultimately the decision is up to you. All we can do is give our -- our input. We stress the barriers, but we understand the difficulties of those decisions that that also makes. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Can you educate us on the matrix or the process that you go through in determining if barriers should be installed or not installed? I can appreciate the life safety element that they bring and the safety element just in general, but I'm curious if you would be able to educate us as to why the decision was made here. There are some other places where -- again, I'm not a traffic engineer, I haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, so I don't know why they land some places and don't land in others. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 26 of 63 Bruce: Councilman, Madam Mayor, the one reference to the barriers that went in near the Chinden and Eagle Road intersection, those ones were driven by what are called HALs, HALs are high accident locations, where we actually have a lot of data that they show up statewide and there is justification -- safety justification why those have to go in and that's -- unfortunately, that's exactly -- you know, we recognize that that was going to be hurtful to those businesses, but how do you balance that versus the safety of your traveling public. In this particular case I apologize, I have to tell you that I'm bringing you the message. I would have to grab our -- our traffic engineer to determine what that -- or to convey what that decision matrix was and what warrants a barrier and what does not. I do not believe we have HALs in this area, but I could be mistaken. I know that we have accidents. As I indicated we have rear end collisions and side swipes, which is, once again, kind of that low -- low impact issue that you have with congestion, but once you start moving traffic and you still have those left turns and the congestion, that's -- much like the Police Department, we are a little more concerned with the safety than you know, the economic opportunities and -- that's a big difference for us, too, but I think first and foremost we are -- we are after the safety for the traveling public. De Weerd: I think with removing the left-hand turn you will have higher incidents of the rear ending on the two lanes going south and having a car cross four lanes of traffic. Certainly it's problematic. It's -- it's different than crossing two or even three if you include the turn lane. So, I see in the design why you would do it, but that's a tough location to get cars into anyway, you know, already, so I -- I am curious, I -- as to what they have to say, but I am equally curious if we -- if this Council really took a stand and said we don't want to support the -- the barrier, if ITD would choose anything different. Bruce: I would say that's a few scales above my pay grade, but -- or excuse me -- Madam Mayor. Sorry. That's above my pay grade. But it's -- we listen. It's a collaborative process and we -- we are working to actually address everybody's concerns and we definitely are not going to go out there and just make decisions without anybody's input and if we have justification for why we are moving, once again, warrants and the reasoning why we are actually putting them in, if there is a cold hard data to support that, then, we probably would enter into further discussions and substantiate that. I do not have that data right now to back that up. But we can definitely work on getting that to you. De Weerd: I -- I guess my question, in looking at your data, if you can provide back to Council that the scenario that's being set up to improve this intersection and move traffic, if the accident rate -- and I guess I'm -- I would assume that it would be supported. If the accident rate increases by keeping the two lanes and having a left turn that would cross four lanes of traffic versus going up to the area that you have provided a U-turn opportunity in a safer manner, if that really is safer, the U-turn. If -- if data can substantiate any difference between the two. Bruce: Madam Mayor, I'm kind of confused. Are you referring to the use of the cones or -- Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 27 of 63 De Weerd: So, the data -- if you didn't -- if you allowed -- well, didn't allow, but you didn't put in the barrier, you know someone is going to try and turn left out of that southbound lane versus going up to where you provide the U-turn. If you have safety data pertaining to that. Bruce: I do not know if we have that off the top of the my head. We can actually try and find that data. De Weerd: Okay. Bruce: I apologize. Lavey: Madam Mayor? You know, I'm not a traffic engineer either and trying to study this and trying to figure out what the -- the unintended consequences are. The one area I do have concern for the barrier is that when you're going southbound and you have to go southbound past Calderwood to make that U-turn to come back, traffic northbound is at 55 miles an hour and that's a concern for us. De Weerd: No. It's 35 there. Lavey: No. It's 55. It's 55 miles an hour on 69. Then it slows down to 45, then, it slows down to 35, but it's pretty much 55 until they have to break and, then, they rear end someone. That's really what -- what happens right now and so you're going to have people making that left-hand turn, that U-turn with traffic coming at them at 55 miles an hour. Hopefully they are slowing, but during the commutes in the morning they are not slowing down and so that would be a concern. Northbound the barrier is not a concern for us, because there is a right -in, right -out anyways already there on the southwest corner. So, the barriers don't impact us at all. So, you know, it's give and take and the other thing is -- is that the barriers oftentimes -- especially the barriers on Eagle Road, reduce the amount of left turn collisions and left turn collisions are not what our problem is here at this intersection, it's rear end collisions and how do we get that traffic slowed down sooner going northbound. Frankly, southbound is just congestion, people just being distracted, not paying attention and rear ending someone in front of them during the commute time. So, there is give and take with everything. I think if you have further questions you probably should have the traffic engineer come, explain this to you. We are just giving you our -- our take on what we experience out there. And the fire department might have some comments, too. Bongiorno: Madam Mayor and City Council, I agree with chief. We have that left-hand turn lane there in front of The Village and we had a couple of fatalities out there because of people making left turns going across -- what is it -- three lanes of traffic right there at 55 miles an hour. So, in this particular case you have got the same thing, you have got people trying to make a left turn across one, two, three -- basically four lanes of traffic and that's asking for trouble. So, in this particular case they could go up to Calderwood, turn left or make the U-turn -- because if they turn left they just turn left Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 28 of 63 again into that parallel road that goes down past the car parts place, Carquest, and the dentist offices and, then, they can get to the Starbucks and get to Dutch Bros and Red Pavilion and all that other stuff, too. So, they can still get to it, they just have to go up a little farther and, then, make the left turn to get there. But I agree with chief, it would just -- the barrier would be a better solution. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: I think we need some facts. That's what I think. I think we need some facts. We need some -- some statistics and we need to talk to the business owners to find out what their thoughts are and that would help us come to a more prudent, educated decision on what we need to do with this intersection. De Weerd: Well, frankly, I think that in order to talk to the business owners you need that data. Bruce: Members of the Council, Madam Mayor, yes, that's our -- our next plan is to go out and talk to them. As Brandon said, I think we are scheduled to meet with them either this week or next. It sounds like both. So, we definitely will be talking to them. definitely hear Council's need for data to substantiate this and definitely the traffic engineer has reasoning for what we have here and we will probably have to bring her back and, then, do another presentation for your -- your benefit. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: I think what the Mayor is saying is I think she -- and I totally agree -- as a business owner I would want to know those facts as well, you know, when you're going out to talk to them. I mean if you're going to want to recommend to put a barrier in, they are going to want to know why, you know, and the more facts you have probably the conversation -- the easier the conversation will be. Bruce: Madam Mayor, Council Member, yes, sir, I absolutely agree and I think, unfortunately, right now we have kind of the soft facts that I have. We need to make sure we have those -- that data to present to them and we will make a point of -- if we don't have it, suspending those meetings and getting the data and, then, making sure that we present a reasoned case. Bernt: Perfect. De Weerd: Thank you. Borton: Madam Mayor? Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 29 of 63 De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: For summary purposes, if I understand all this correctly, bullets on your list -- bullets one, two and four you're telling us. In bullet number three you're asking us with regards to the median barrier. Purpose of today's presentation; correct? Bruce: Council Member, Madam Mayor, yes, sir. That is correct. We had already made this decision when moving forward. Thought that we had had this information and definitely need to do a little more homework and get back with you. Borton: Madam Mayor. As to that one point with regards to the median barriers. But as to everything else, it's been resolved, it's full steam ahead; is that correct? Bruce: Yes, sir. De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you. And I hope you don't feel beat up as the messenger. Bernt: Great job. You did a great job. Bruce: Thank you very much. De Weerd: Thank you. Thanks for joining us. Hood: Madam Mayor, before you move on -- De Weerd: Uh-huh. Hood: -- just how would you like to circle back on that then? I mean what -- what is -- how would you like -- De Weerd: If you could come back and give us -- Hood: It's possible. De Weerd: Yes. Hood: Okay. Item 7: Department Reports A. Legal: Annual Department Report De Weerd: Under Department Reports we have our annual report for our Legal Department. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 30 of 63 Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm always happy to be here. I know you wanted a whole year for this update, so I am glad to be here on behalf of our legal team and our legal team is here in the room as well and here to just give you a little taste of what we have been doing for the last year. Again, it's a privilege to put our team on the front of our presentation. It's been a privilege for the many years I have been here to work with most of these people. Again, we are very stable, we have a lot of experience and a lot of folks here and we have done lots of things over the last dozen plus years for the city and we are really proud to be here. So, we are done. That's it. We do everything. I thought I would be a little faster. I know we have got a long meeting tonight and -- De Weerd: Well, thank you. Nary: -- I figured you would appreciate that. De Weerd: We do. Council, any questions? Nary: I will do a little bit longer version, but I thought I would give you an option to bow out if you choose. So, let me explain a little bit about the legal world. When I was a kid this is what lawyers looked like to me. These were heroes that I grew up with watching. I wasn't a big fan of Matt Dillon or Pa Cartwright, I thought these were the people that you wanted to be. Right, Councilman Borton? Maybe yours were in color, but these were the folks I aspired to be and the kind of lawyer I wanted to be and I really wanted to be that guy, because I thought he won every week. I thought he was really good, but he was always honest, he was always ethical, thought he was up front with people, and thought that's what lawyers were supposed to be. So, that's who I think we as an entity are for the city. I mean the city prides itself as an ethical and up front organization and we, as the city attorneys, emplify that and want to be that for our public, for our elected officials, for our employees. That's the example we think we need to set. So, what do we do? And some of this I think maybe many of you have heard pieces and parts or all of it, but I know Council Member Bernt hasn't, so I wanted to make sure we covered the things we do that maybe sound repetitive, but he may not have heard before. We cover all of the meetings of the city. We cover the Council meetings, the commission meetings. If there is a committee of some sort -- the impact fees or the golf course, we have representation of the Legal Department at all of those meetings for varieties of reasons. To make sure the noticing has been done properly, make sure that the hearing is being held properly. Some of them have legal ramifications, some of them have city ramifications, but we want to make sure that everything is done above board. If there is questions that come up we are there on the spot to answer them at all these different levels of hearings and commission meetings that we have. Each of the departments -- I asked a few of them this year if they could provide me some comment on what we provided for them. So, I'm not going to read those. You can read those yourselves. But I asked the departments what services do we receive from the Legal Department and how does it help you. And, again, here is the city clerk's office. We review all of their public records responses. There was 305 of them last year. That's Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 31 of 63 just -- that's just the ones that come through City Hall and through the Fire Department and everyone in this building. All the departments. The Police are handled separately and we have our partners from the city of Boise here, they will talk a little bit about that as well. We review all the temporary use permits. We review -- we prep for all the meetings for the Council and the Planning and Zoning. We spend a great deal of time prepping to make these meetings more efficient for all of you or for our commissioners, so that way we can get the business of the city done in a more efficient and better practical manner and we are involved in all of that, including, again, record retention. Human resources. Okay. Again, we review all of the contracts, all of the forms, all of the things in regards to policy and how we do that and we also deal with adverse actions. Again, we have sometimes issues in the city that we have to resolve in some manner, whether it's separation, whether it's something less than that. Again, we have legal representation involved in that and there is a slide we will get to a little bit later that would help maybe drive why this stuff is important on the front end. We are very proactive. Having an in-house counsel I think the greatest value received is because we are already here, you don't have to call us from down the street, you don't have to have us drive over from another city, you don't have to wait in line with any other client we may have, we are available all day every day. We always have a lawyer here. We always have the ability to answer, respond, address questions as they come up. You don't have to until you can call at the end of the month or the end of the week or whatever that is. The Finance Department -- again, lots of different things to go on that some you see and some you don't. Bankruptcy cases. We have a number of those during the course of the year. We have had leans over there from Meridian Heights as we did that Meridian Heights a few years ago, we added some leans to property for that cost and so sometimes we have to file liens to protect that. We have impact fees, contract, city-wide fee schedules, lots of things the Legal Department has been involved in right from the outset. Again, our hope and our desire always is to create a more efficient system for the city as a whole, so that way things can get done, we don't have to do it over, you know, it always costs a lot -- it may cost a lot to do it the first time, it costs a lot more to do it again. So, we want to make sure we do it efficiently and effectively the first time and, then, we can move on to something else, because there is always something else. Fire Department. Again, we have varieties of different things in the collective labor agreement, which we will be visiting again this year. We have a variety of different contracts and joint powers agreements, public records -- again, we had 122 of those in the fire department last year. We review all of those code compliance, fire code, lots and lots of questions. I mean probably the bulk of what any of our folks do on a daily basis is really address a lot of questions on how to do something. Sometimes we can answer them very simply, because we have done it before. Other times we may have to take some time to go research. Has the law changed. Are the requirements different. Is there something else? Is your code -- we have to be sure we are aware of some. So, some can be done very quickly and some take a little bit more time, but we make the time to get that done. The Police Department. I just love this picture of Lieutenant Leslie. You can Google that and find that. I have no idea what he was doing, but I just thought that was great. I also think it's great that Meridian police has a logo that says keeping people and dogs safe. That's -- Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 32 of 63 that's a great community to live in. That's their motto. Again, with police we have two different -- I don't know where it came from. De Weerd: I think you added it. Nary: Just Google this. I just found it. I just thought I could share that. So, again, same thing. We have a police attorney that we contract for with the city of Boise, has a lot of hands-on work, hands-on training, hands-on contact with the police department. Yet we also are very involved in a variety of certain things. Code enforcement. We coordinate with our police attorney and police services in answering questions, make sure we are consistent, you know. Ms. Starr is the primarily lead with that, she can contact me, we make sure we are both on the same page what we are doing. Again, lots of different levels of service that we provide to the police between contract preparation and review versus some of the other things, like today's discussion about the Humane Society and those types of things. Again, we have been very involved in all of those conversations. Parks and Rec. That's the bunny drop right there, if you weren't -- what is that thing flying in the sky. So, that's -- so, again, staffing all their meetings and all the different things that go on in parks or recreation. You know and visibly see the tremendous amount of things this city does in relation to parks and park programming. All of that behind the scenes and getting that done, whether it's the contracts with the instructors that we use for our various programs, whether it's the purchasing of property or the construction of those properties and things, all of that has some legal ramifications that we have been involved in, again, a lot or a little. Mostly a lot that we have been involved in and making all of that happen and make it as seamless as possible, so that, again, the visible things that you and the public see are really what the forefront should be. Nobody wants to get too involved in the policy draft and the contracting, but we still got to do it and so we are making sure it all gets done. So, really we can cut the ribbons, put up the signs, what's the bunny drop and have a good activity. Community Development. Again, obviously, all of you know and the public knows that is a huge function of what cities deal with. Annexations. Twenty- seven doesn't seem like a lot, but when you look at the number and the complexity and the time, some are very simple and some aren't. So, 27 of them in 17 and you think of, again, those all have development agreements, those are all somewhat customized to the particular issues. So, those, again, all take a lot of time. The third bullet there -- again, we spend a lot of time on home ordinance task force and getting that done. Most of you remember that. That was quite interesting and compelling to folks in our community and I think we ended up with a better product and a really good product that everybody was happy with at the end. Again, lots of different things in regards to codes and ordinances that we work very, very closely with Community Development and making sure that all of those processes that are necessary to make those work, both from a city standpoint, as well as the legal side, are done up front. Again, cities that have to do it over find, again, more expense, more lost business, more of a black eye sometimes when you can't get it done right the first time. Community Development Block Grant is another area that is highly technical and is very specific. Obviously, as all of you know, because it's driven by federal regulations, there is lots of complexity and requirements that are necessary to make that happen and so we, again, work very Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 33 of 63 closely -- Ms. Kane for my office is very astute at this area of the law and she's invaluable to that program to make it function and to do whatever the city would like to do and make sure that -- providing assistance to the administrator to make sure we meet all the deadlines and requirements that exist out there. So, again, if you look at Public Works, that's the SENSUS meter we have talked a little bit about. There is -- that's not necessarily the power transformers at the treatment plant. I couldn't get a picture of those, but those look like transformers. So, again, a variety of different stuff that we are dealing with that are very time consuming, but are very critical to the city, you know, whether it's just SENSUS meter problem we have -- again, we have had a lot of sewer issues and things like that. Reclaimed water agreement, we are working on that again with one of our businesses. Lots of time and effort. And, again, having the internal time and staff to be able to manage those things, not having to outsource that type of stuff, provides I think greater efficiency and greater value to the public. Let me talk a little about risk management. I have had some meetings with this in relation to our strategic plan, which will be the next section that I wanted to talk about and how our risk management has been -- has been doing over the last year. So, this data comes from ICRMP directly. We have been partners with them for 27 years. These numbers - - I don't have a slide for this, but these numbers in relation to many other cities is very, very good and very positive for them. We are a very good partner for ICRMP. We work very close together. They are always at our call, but we also work very closely so that we can coordinate before we have issues, before we make payments, before we have concerns we are addressing those problems up front. Again, proactive is a lot better way to do business than to be reactive. So, let me give you a little bit of this data. So, what I asked them for is what -- what does it cost, what are the different types of issues out there in regards to risk management and how are those handled and so they gave me two different slides. This one first is losses by coverage. So, this is the type of coverages that we have and what types of percentage of that cost is and this is on a statewide basis, so you can see on a statewide basis almost a third of claims that you get are general liability and those can be from slip and falls and trip on the sidewalks to fall down in a building or something else. So, a lot of those general liability claims, that's about a third. Auto driving is a little smaller, about a quarter of it's property and employment is about 17 percent. Look at the city. Now, auto driving is higher, because most of our other claims are smaller. If you think of our city as an entity, the biggest bulk of things that we do involve vehicles, between police, fire, public works and parks we drive a lot of vehicles around. So, this is claims related to autos. So, although that percentage looks high, it's because all the other percentages of the types of losses that we may have in risk management are very low. Again, properties about the same. Employment is four percent. The other was 17. You know, again, that's part of what we are saying with human resources, we have a great deal of upfront discussion with that -- with human resources before we do things in the employment arena and that avoids claims, that avoids costs and those, again, of course, turn back in the premiums. So, although the auto driving looks large, relative to all of our claims it's really not that significant compared to the statewide numbers that you will see. So, yeah, when you look it by comparison, again, that general liability, you look at -- ours is eight and the state is 32. So -- how do I back up? There. So, this is losses by office and this by, essentially, departmental section is the way ICRMP does that and this is all cities. So, Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 34 of 63 again, police are the largest. Again normally because that's lower. The most risk exists, the most opportunities for interaction exist, vehicles and everything else. So, police statewide is almost a third. Again, you look at water, sewer claims, parks and recreation, those types of things, all those different ones around the state that -- how they classify where damage or losses occur and when you look at the city in relation to that, again, our police, although it looks larger, because, again, ours is much smaller. We don't have a whole lot of other claims. So, these types of police claims, although you look at a percentage is large, the number is fairly small in comparison to others around the state. So, we, as an entity, both from the risk standpoint from the departments, as well as a risk standpoint in how we interact as a city with others, we are doing a really a job. We are keeping the costs low. We are interacting appropriately. You're going to have some risk that exists out there, but all of these numbers, as you compare on a statewide basis, really as you see most everything else is so small, it makes it look skewed for police, but it really is, again, because the pie itself -- this is the pie and they just happen to be larger, they are the largest department, they have the most vehicles, have the ability for interaction. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Bill, I don't mean to interrupt. Can you go back to that slide. I just was curious -- in terms of -- I don't know if this is ICRMP's categorizing, but the street department, what do they categorize that as and how is that related to in -- in the City of Meridian? Nary: That's a great question, because I asked that, too. Those are street lights. So, every few -- every year we either -- we either have street lights that get damaged that we have no one to recover it from, so that's where that cost comes from. If we can recover it, then, we will get -- we will get some of that back. But almost all of that exclusively for us is streetlights. Cavener: Thanks. Nary: Here is just a chart they provide us of losses above 10,000. This is since 2006. So, this is an 11 year look back. As you can see, most of our claims are fairly small. You know, we have three large claims over the years, but most of them all are very small amounts of dollars and, again, that helps keep our premiums low, helps keeps our costs low, helps keep it affordable for us as a city by being able to manage all of this type of work. Now, you will see an uptick in claims. So, in 2017 we had an uptick in claims and some of it was related often to snow. We had more collisions due to the snow. We had more building damage due to the snow. We had more people receive damage that the city caused due to the snow. So, we had a lot more claims for different varieties of things. So, I don't look at '17 as an uptick that I'm concerned. Here now a year from now if we are still seeing that same sort of trend, you know, we will -- we will get to how we are going to look at that between now and '18, but that's I think what our Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 35 of 63 goal is is to look at those and see if those sort of level off and come back to the numbers we had in '16, which were more consistent. So, we have had some discounts. Again, all of you are aware we have an annual program that ICRMP sponsors that our city employees participate in, for both online training, as well as in-person training and with that they offer us a discount. So, the city realizes over 60,000 dollars in discounts over the last five years by participating in that program. We have, again, employee policy reviews, courses that have been completed. Harassment courses completed. As well as for supervisors. So, all of that -- again, the training and the opportunity to have those conversations both at the staff level, at staff meetings, as well as from supervisor to the staff, I think all help create that dialogue of understanding what risk exists out there and what concerns there are to address. So, the last piece I want to cover is the strategic plan. We have one active initiative we are working on currently and it's, again, in the risk management area. That particular -- that particular point was to do a comprehensive risk management program. We are 40 percent complete and what we did is we formed a committee and this committee, as I was telling the Mayor recently, this is made up of department records primarily and we had representatives from police, fire, public works, human resources, my office and parks and all of the folks around the table have the ability to make the changes occur and that I think is where the value of this process is going to be, because what we are doing is going to be reviewing the claims as they come in, reviewing -- you know, is there training improvements that need to be done. Is there different methods that need to be done. Is there sharing of information that could be done? Sometimes training -- the police and fire departments are really good at sharing training opportunities, but it's -- it's been a newer addition to that to maybe insure some of that training with public works and the same thing with public works, they do a lot of types of training that could be very relevant to police, fire, that might be helpful to them to have the opportunity or know that it's being -- occurring. So, this quarterly meeting -- we have already had our first meeting. We are going to have our second one here in April. So, I will be looking for those types of measurements, so that we can create a program that we can all be comfortable with that, we are addressing problems as they occur, we are on the front end of these things as developments occur and, again, we are going to look -- part of it I think we are going to look at those claims that are being made and saying are we seeing an upward trend or is it really going back down, because, again, without the snow event this year we may not have that same aberration like we did in '17. The future. I could not make that turn enough to make that seem realistic, but court facilities, police, attorney, prosecution, they know that's on my radar. We haven't resolved this issue today. We are still working on resolving this issue today. That potential still exists out there for this facility. So, that's probably the biggest thing on my radar screen to be aware of of what can happen between now and maybe the next time we do an update for you, but we are hopeful maybe we can get a resolution to this issue and move on to something better than this. So, this is how lawyers look like now. Not quite the same I know, unfortunately. You know, some look like -- might look like him, but, you know, there is a variety of mix in the law today and I get that, but -- and, in fact, I get that so much because I think this is the lawyer everybody knows today and that's not who we are and that's not what we want to be and that's not the type of legal team you have here at the city and I think all of you know all of our folks, you have had all of Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 36 of 63 them engaged in a variety of different things that we have been doing over the years and I hope some of the reflections from the department's help reflect that as well, that we are really on the forefront, we want to be there for folks -- again, walking up to our office and coming in asking a question is not intimidating I don't think for anybody. I think most of the people that know -- that they need to know where we are and they know when we are available and when we will be able to respond to them. So, I think, you know, this is not the type of lawyers that we think we are, we really think we are better than that and we think we are more -- we are up front on that and I think we are much better value to our departments in the city because of that. So, is there other questions before I turn it over to our partners with the city of Boise? Borton: Council, any questions? Nary: So, today we have Christine Starr and Denyce Thompson-Udink from the city of Boise to come talk about their work for us and their partnership with us with police and with prosecution. Udink: Good evening, Members of the Council. My name is Denise Udink. I am a prosecutor with the Boise city attorney's office. I'm the chief criminal deputy. So, I am in charge of the prosecution section. Christine Starr is here with me as well and she is the chief legal police advisor for the Meridian Police Department. So, we are here to talk to you today about the relationship that we have -- the Boise city attorney's office and Meridian city and I just have to start out my comments by saying how much we enjoy this relationship. We have had the contract with Meridian city since 2002 and it's just a pleasure to work with Chief Lavey and all of his staff and the officers over at the police department and Bill Nary and his staff. I mean it really has been a wonderful relationship that we have had. So, we are just always really excited to be invited over to come and talk with you, because we really enjoy that relationship. So, I'm going to be the primary person to throw numbers at you, but I just wanted to give you a little bit of a background about the way our office is structured, because we do have a team of prosecutors and staff that are dedicated to just prosecution services and that's what I'm going to talk about today and, then, Christine will come up in just a second. But we have 17 prosecutors that cover the prosecution -- all aspects of prosecution in our office and, then, one of the things I didn't have on the slide, but we have 14 staff members that are also dedicated to just criminal cases and so we have a full range of skill levels and things like that in our office. Right now there was a recent change with the way that the court system in Ada county works and so we cover full -- five full-time calendars -- five judges that we appear in front of and, then, we also have two specialty courts that we cover. DUI court, which is actually going to be phasing out over the next few months and, then, we also have domestic violence court and we screen cases into that. It's not a -- we don't put all of our domestic violence cases in domestic violence court. We screen cases in there, so we can be selective about that. Just in terms of numbers specific to Meridian, in DUI court right now we have two active participants in there and, then, we have four people that have graduated from DUI court from Meridian cases and, then, in domestic violence court we have put in 52 cases that originated in Meridian city in DVC. So, we have a range of prosecution services that we provide for the City of Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 37 of 63 Meridian. Obviously, we have a screening or an intake function. We have a team of screeners that review every single police report that is taken by officers on misdemeanor charges where law enforcement action wasn't taken and, then, we review those reports and we determine if we should charge somebody with a crime and who should that be and should we ask for a summons to be issued or an arrest warrant to be issued. We also look at all of the misdemeanor citations that get issued by the Meridian Police Department just to make sure that citations are accurate, charges are accurate, things like that before we send these onto the court. We have victim services, so we work very closely with the victim witness coordinators that are employed by the Median Police Department to provide notice and resources and things like that to victims of mainly domestic violence -related cases, but those can include things like stalking and violations of protection orders and things like that. So, we also meet with victims when they request that or when we are getting ready for trial or something like that, we do want to meet with those victims as well and, then, we actually have a part- time victim witness coordinator employed in our office who makes contact with victims of an arrested domestic violence case the day after an arrest, just because we want to establish that early contact, we want to provide them resources, answer questions that they might have, because they are, obviously, not part of our system by choice and so we want to make sure that they have the support that they need and, then, we also work with officers, of course, in preparing for court or for discovery requests that we might get from defense attorneys. We have a lot of contact with the Police Department. And, then, obviously, we appear in court also on Meridian cases and handle a very wide range of hearings. There are all types of hearings. We have arraignments. We have pre-trial conferences where we try to negotiate resolution. We also handled traffic court, which is the infraction cases that either can be contested and we have to go to a bench trial or just to have a conversation with citizens to see if there is a way we might be able to resolve their cases. So, here is where all the numbers come in. So, I just wanted to give you a snapshot of what it looks like in terms of caseload or workload for our office. Last year in 2017 we opened 14,434 cases. We prosecute for Boise, Meridian, Garden City and Eagle. So, that's a total of all the cities that we prosecute for and of those 14,000 cases, that resulted in approximately 20,000 charges. So, some cases have more than one charge. That's why the charge number is higher. Three thousand seven hundred forty-nine of those cases were from Meridian and that comprised also about 5,300 charges. So, the cases and/or the charges that we were getting from Meridian city accounts for about 25 to 26 percent of the total of our cases. In terms of hearings, our office -- our prosecutors handled just over 29,000 hearings and those were the hearings I just talked about, which could be arraignments or traffic court or pretrial conferences, trials -- jury trials or bench trials and, again, for Meridian the number was 7,872, which is, again, roughly 26 percent of the total hearings that we covered last year. So, this is just a quick snapshot for you over the last seven years from 2010 through 2017. This just gives you an idea of the number of cases and versus the number of charges that we have opened in our office and so you can see that it's stayed relatively steady. It looks like it was down just a little bit last year from 2016, but it's relatively steady from year to year since 2010. Another kind of bird's eye view of the types of offenses that we have opened or the charges that we have opened from Meridian Police Department. This is just a pie chart that shows you, obviously, the Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 38 of 63 largest number comes in as traffic infraction. So, the speeding, following too close, things like that. Traffic misdemeanors, just to give you an idea, that could be things like inattentive driving, reckless driving, driving without a license, driving while suspended. Those are the types of things that are in there. So, this just gives you an idea of the number of charges coming in for each category. And, then, this is the top ten. So, the top ten charges that are coming from Meridian -- the number one charge that we received in our office was driving without privileges or driving on a suspended license. But it runs the full gamut. Interestingly, DUI kind of falls down there the very last -- or the very end of the top ten, which is a little bit surprising to me, but lots of speeding tickets and things like that. So, this is just the top ten that we are seeing from Meridian police. And, then, I just wanted to give you also an idea of the conviction rates for some of the categories of offenses that we prosecute. So, DUI we have a 98 percent conviction rate right now -- De Weerd: Good job. Udink: -- and, then, it goes down from there. I'm sorry, Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Good job. Udink: Oh, thank you. Thank you. So, that just gives you an idea. Domestic violence -- that's a tough one, to be honest with you. It is tough sometimes to get convictions on domestic violence, just for a number of reasons, and so we do our best to prosecute those offenses, of course, but those can be tough sometimes, so -- oops. Did anybody have any questions before I turn the time over to Christine? De Weerd: Council, any questions? Udink: All right. Thank you very much for having us. De Weerd: Good afternoon. Starr: Madam Mayor, Council Members. Christine Starr from the Boise city attorney's office. I have the privilege of working with the chief and the police. It's my primary function under our contract with you and it is truly my deepest joy. I don't think I have to tell you what an amazing department we have. I have worked probably with ten police departments over my career and the Meridian Police Department is just a top notch department for so many reasons. From the leadership all the way down to the boots on the ground. Amazing officers. So, what does our police team do? So, Denise -- Denise's team does the prosecution piece and our team has the privilege of doing a bunch of different kinds of activities with our police department. We actually have three attorneys that rotate into the police department every -- three days of the week and we sit in an office right in the patrol area. So, I personally, when I'm out there, I'm sharing an office with two sergeants and we have lieutenants that are right down the hall from us and we are right next to the area where our police officers are in writing their reports and what's amazing about this is it creates this environment where they just drop in and Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 39 of 63 they say, hey, Christine, I need to talk to you about this. This is bumming me out. Help me figure it out. Or should I have done this? Or I'm thinking about doing that. Now, the I'm thinking about doing that is what we are looking for. Like we want to have them coming to us first, not afterwards, and so being there in that space with them creates that trust and that ability and we are so grateful that the chief has recognized the value of that and he always carves out a space for us. No matter how tight it's getting in there he creates space. We have two additional attorneys that also provide police advice on a regular basis and when we are out in that patrol area, like I said, we provide legal counsel, we answer questions, we help them with their court processes, tell them whether or not their subpoenas are still active, those types of things. We actually reviewed 2,226 public records requests last year and some of them were massive, because we, for some reason, have TV shows that want to put our murders on the television and some of them were older, but really massive requests. Thousands and thousands of pages of documents and photographs. So, we did that. I have the privilege of attending command staff, so I have had the privilege of working with a couple of our council members on a regular basis, which has been great. We assist with projects that is requested by command staff. We also process our weapons and evidence dispositions. We review policy. We work with the victim witness coordinators as well. They often will come in and sit down with us and ask for a status update. We do subpoena duces tecum review to make sure that we are not handing out documents that we shouldn't be handing out and, then, when there is a request for internal affairs assistance we do that and, then, importantly, we provide one on one training with officers. So, this last year we had an officer that was really struggling and one of the lieutenants came to us and said, hey, this is a good officer, but he's missing this piece. Can you help us out. And we said, absolutely, we can. Let's set up a time and we are going to focus on the things that he's having difficulty with and it was -- it was a great outcome. All of our attorneys that train your police officers are POST certified, which is important. We do a lot of training. We are about ready to embark on eight weeks of block training with the officers and so we will be there one day a week for eight weeks just meeting with all of the officers and doing a four hour block with them. Those block trainings are usually consisting of topics that command staff has said, hey, touch base on this, we are seeing this in some of our reviews or this has kind of been a weird thing for us recently. Will you tap that one. And so that's what we do for those. We also have patrol academy. So, once our police officers go through POST we have this extended training for them, because we want them to be the best and so we do that several times a year. We work with Sergeant Sims to set up three different training blocks that just take that POST training to the next level and help our officers be successful. We also provide specialized training upon request. We provide legal updates on a regular basis. It can be through e-mail or it could be through briefing bulletins, it can be through dropping off in briefing and just doing a quick slide show, whatever is needed, and this is just an example of what the officers might get for a training bulletin. Last thing I want to talk about is the fact that we have a 24/7 on-call team. So, if you remember in the very beginning I said there are two other attorneys that often provide legal advice, too. That's because they are part of what we call the pager rotation. So, we have four attorneys that rotate on the pager and we change every week, like the judges that are on call do, and so that means that our officers can Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 40 of 63 reach us anytime, anywhere when they need us and we help them with the blood draw warrants. We answer any legal questions that come up in the field. We help them with search and seizure issues and we help them with execution of warrants, etcetera, and we also consult with command on major incidents when they need our assistance. So, that's kind of an overview. I just want to reiterate what Denise said. This partnership has been amazing for us. We feel privileged to work with the officers and I would entertain any questions you have. De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Starr: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you very much. Nary: So, that's it. Very good. Wasn't too bad. So, I wanted to make sure if you had any other questions about any of the services we provide or how we do that, we really appreciate the partnership we have had with city of Boise for about 15 years. We think it has been a great value to our citizens and to our police department and to our city. We find the reasons in our department for our team to be here every day. We like working here. We like being part of our city. All of our folks feel very connected to what happens in our city and we think we provide a valuable service, so -- any other questions? Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: I don't have any questions, Bill, because I get to ask you on a regular basis, but great report. I mean you guys are so busy -- you know, like I say, a lot -- a lot of our employees, but you guys have a lot going on and -- and I really have enjoyed -- especially in your report reading the -- the comments from the different departments. That was a great addition to that. I loved that. And working with Christine is phenomenal, too. So -- Nary: I would agree. Milam: -- Leann, lucky you. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts. Little Roberts: I won't disagree with councilman's comments. Your team -- you and your team are wonderful. It seems like you always -- we always have access to you when we need it and -- and also it seems like the relationship with Boise is a very positive one and working with Christine is great. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 41 of 63 Nary: Thank you. De Weerd: Thank you. Borton: Madam Mayor, just one other comment. I know from my practice, the legal counsel that Denise leads at the city attorney's office -- and they are extremely well respected by not only law enforcement, by the judicial community that they serve in front of, so through your leadership and how they are trained and how they represent the City of Meridian, it's top notch and they do have the respect of the judicial community and that's much appreciated. De Weerd: Well, we appreciate you being here and sharing your information. That was great data. Exactly what we like to see. So, thank you for that. And thank you for the partnership. It's been solid for years and -- and I think I have heard nothing but glowing feedback from our police department, as well as our legal team. So, thank you for that. Nary: Thank you. B. Community Development: Budget Amendment for Program Year 2017 CDBG Award of $349,131 De Weerd: Thanks, Bill. Okay. Our next item up is Item 7-B under our Community Development Department and CDBG. Pope: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I will be as brief as I can for Todd's sake. Been moving forward -- this is a proposed budget amendment for the reception of our program year 2017 CDBG award. There is no net cost to this. The original budgeted amount was 349,131 dollars. The award that we have been given by the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development is that same amount. Again, this is not a request for public funding, but as this is a line of credit we do need spending authority in order to spend down this amount. In terms of how this money will be spent, all of the projects and the amount itself have been approved multiple times by you all in the previous year and staff's recommendation is to improve this amendment. I stand for questions. De Weerd: Thank you, Chris. Council, any questions? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: If none and you need action, I would move that we approve the budget amendment for program year 2017 for the CDBG award in the amount of 349,131 dollars. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 42 of 63 Palmer: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk. Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, absent; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea, Bernt, yea; De Weerd: All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT. C. Quarterly Finance Department Update De Weerd: And just for the record, Councilman Cavener stepped out of the meeting. Item 7-C is our quarterly Finance Department update. And what a great example to follow. Lavoie: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. De Weerd: Hi, Todd. Lavoie: Again appreciate Chris's quick report. I will see how fast I can go. I can go straight to the end if you wish and we could be really quick, but -- no, I appreciate your time for allowing us to give you our quarterly update. This update tonight -- I will go over a few topics. I was going to present to you our fiscal year 2017 results from a very high level. Again, we just got our audit report today. I sent out an e-mail a few minutes ago to the Council, to the Mayor, and all the department directors, that we have a clean audit, which is amazing, but I'm not going to steal the auditor's thunder, he will be here on the 27th to announce that, but a few of the numbers here are going to be represented in the audit report that Kevin Smith presents to you on the 27th. So, tonight we will do the -- the audit actuals, we will go over some of the revenue sources, kind of give you an idea of who our top revenue sources are, top expenditure sources, present to you where our fund balance resides as of 9/30/2017. We will present to you some forecasting tools that we use to help us with our decision making, give you an update on our next quarterly topics and, then, as always stand for any questions. So, with that we will go and get started with the 2017 financials and we will start off with the General Fund revenue. This fiscal year for fiscal year 2017 we ended up 17 percent higher than we budgeted -- than was budgeted. Our goals again -- you know, as close as -- to a hundred percent as possible, but these results are a good thing. You can see property tax is two percent, we call that a great estimation, but you will see some other ones with a few higher numbers. Again, mainly with the licenses and permits and other revenue. Those numbers are significantly higher due to the phenomenal growth that we are experiencing here. Those revenue numbers are directly impacted from the permitting and development and the growth that we are seeing and also within the inter- governmental that is revenue sharing from the state. So, the sales tax. Since we are -- we know that they are growing that number grew a little bit faster than we expected as Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 43 of 63 well. So, again, the numbers are on the positive side of the ledger and again -- and we will continue to learn from the -- the results here, adjust our, you know, projections and our forecast going forward, but at the end of the day we ended up by 70 percent higher on the General Fund and, again, we will use this data to continue to alter our projections moving forward, so that we can get a little bit closer to one hundred percent. Again, this is just a graph to show those data points. Just want to point out here you can see how important property taxes are. Property taxes make up a large proportionate share of our city revenue for General Fund and just got to remind you that we need to make sure we manage that one resource with care and professionalism. The other items on there -- those are kind of out of our hands. Those are mandated and controlled by somebody other than the City of Meridian. So, again, we have the one property tax bar, we really want to manage correctly and safely. So, that's the General Fund revenue. We will jump into the enterprise revenue. Enterprise Fund ended up a little bit over 24 percent higher than what we expected. You can see the sales revenues, we are right where we wanted them to be. You will see the big numbers in assessment revenue. Assessment revenues is one hundred percent relied on the community development and as we know we are growing leaps. So, again, those numbers came in a little bit higher than we expected. We will continue to adjust our growth modeling. Again, we have a growth committee that's in its second year. We will continue to lean on them to help us with those projections. But, again, we are on the positive side of the ledger, which is a great problem to have. But, again, that's just a direct result of the phenomenal growth that we are seeing here in the City of Meridian and we will continue to adjust our projections going forward and, then, just like we do with the General Fund, that's what the Enterprise Fund looks like from a graphical perspective. Like the General Fund -- General Fund has a primary revenue source, property taxes. Enterprise Fund normally has the same with the water and sewer sales. That's our primary revenue source that the city runs its Enterprise Fund on. But last year you can see sewer assessments was very strong. We had some rate increases over the last two years that we approved in prior years, in 2016 and '17, so those numbers have helped the assessment revenues increase year over year as well. So, those were the revenue numbers. It's all great -- all great problems. Again, good things. We will adjust accordingly. Oops. We are going to go to expenditures now. General Fund expenditures. Personnel costs. We will look at three major reporting categories. General Fund spent 94 percent of its budget. It's a little bit lower than what we normally spend. We normally spend 96 percent. The primary factor in the two percent gap is -- if you look you will see that the police department left about a million dollars on the, quote, unquote, table and that's primarily because we provided them 11 new officers during the fiscal year as new employees. This time last year they had 13 vacancies, so, again, a million dollars left on the table, quote, unquote, is acceptable. We understand that should happen, because there is a hiring and a recruiting process, you don't get to hire them in October 1st. So, there is going to be a little bit of wiggle room and a little bit of savings left over. So, we are comfortable with that number and we are, you know, going forward. We think we should be fine. But, again, two percent from our average, again, that's -- we think the results are positive. With the operating expenses we ended up at 88 or 89 percent. On average we spend 88 percent. So, we are right where we should be. Some of the differences there -- again, you will see the Community Development Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 44 of 63 Department, the very last line, they spent 19 percent more than what we projected, which is a great problem. When you see community development spending more than what we budget, that means we generated more revenue than we budgeted. We have a project -- or we have a -- I guess a relationship within the Community Development Department with our inspectors and with that anytime that we generate a fee on our inspection side, that means we have generated revenue. So, we will never generate an inspection fee without the revenue side. So, from a financial management perspective it's a wonderful relationship, because we won't have any expenses until we have the revenue. So, from a financial management perspective, perfect. So, in this case 19 percent is a good thing, because that means on the revenue side it was even more. So, again, that's a -- that's a good thing on that side of it and, then, the last item that we report on for the General Fund is the capital expenditures for fiscal year '17. We ended up at 43 percent. Again, we left, quote, unquote, 7.9 on the table. We didn't really leave 7.9 on the table. What this represents is projects that were not able to be completed in fiscal '17 and of the 7.9, the General Fund departments requested that we carry 7.9 into fiscal year '18. So, they will spend all 14 million over the two year process, they just were not able to spend all of it in one fiscal year, but in two years they will spend all but 100,000 based on our projections. And, again, that 7.8 million carry forward request will come at a later part of our discussions, part of fund balance and I will discuss that later. So, that's the General Fund expenditures. This is a graphical display of what we just talked about. Revenues, again, actual is higher than budget on revenues. Perfect. Expenditures. Personnel operating capital, actual is lower than budget. Great problem to have again. We will take all this data, we will continue to tweak our projections, again, from a fiscal year 2017 City of Meridian from the General Fund, awesome position to be in. So, congratulations to you guys and the departments on the General Fund. So, now we will go ahead and talk about the Enterprise Fund exact same way. We will start with the Enterprise Fund's personnel cost. They ended the year at 88.1 percent. For them their average is 88 percent. So, they came in right where we expected them to be. The biggest gap difference you will see is going to be in the Public Works Department. They left about 18 to 19 percent, quote, unquote, on the books. This time last year they had six vacancies. A few in the upper management if you recall. They had some organizational changes. So, again, leaving some, quote, unquote, budget on the table, we think that's acceptable due to the change in environment, the change in leadership. So, we are okay with that number. We know next year, without any changes, we should be much tighter than the 97 percent. Operating expense ended the year at 82 percent. Again, normally we spend around 90 percent. So, we are a little bit lower than we expected. The biggest item here you will see on the screen is Public Works. They left about 900,000 on the table. I can tell you of the 900, the Public Works team requested that we take 500,000 into fiscal '18. They were not able to complete some of the projects in fiscal '17. So, 500 of that will be carried into '18 and the remaining differences, projects came in under budget, great problem to have, and some projects were just canceled in entirety. But, again, we are comfortable with the operating results for the Enterprise Fund for fiscal year '17 and that leaves us the capital budget for the Enterprise Fund. We ended the year about 48 percent spent. Again, just like the General Fund, we are not able to complete everything in one fiscal year. It takes many -- sometimes a couple of years to complete Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 45 of 63 projects. I can tell you that they have three major projects going on for the Enterprise Fund. You got the headworks project. You got the capacity upgrades at the treatment plant, which we are all familiar with and, then, they have the south Meridian sewer extensions. Again, some of these projects did experience some delay, since -- but, again, they are still on -- on a positive path for construction. Things are still moving in the right direction. So, with the remaining 21.8 million left on the quote, unquote books, Enterprise Fund requested that we carry 20.9 million into fiscal '18. So, if you add up fiscal '17, plus their carry forward request of 20.9 million, we are expecting them to spend about 41 of the 42 million dollars that you provided them in fiscal year 2017 for their projects. Again, it will just take a couple years to get there. So, again, I think the results for the Enterprise Fund are sound and they should be right where they are. Unfortunately, construction has delays and we know how that goes. So, with that, the same graph. Revenue -- again, actuals are higher than budget. That's a great problem to have. And the same thing with the operating expenses. The actuals are lower than the budget. Again, fantastic job by the Enterprise Fund, you City Council, and the staff members. Enterprise Fund ended the fiscal year in a positive position, which I will talk about here in a second. So, kudos to you guys and the team members out there for the Enterprise Fund. So, one final thing. The question is how did we end the year. Revenues minus expenses. For the business -- business owners out there, you guys know how this works. So, the General Fund, let's go ahead and talk about it. If we have more revenue than expenses, that's called excess revenue. If we have more expenses than revenues, that's called use of fund balance. In this case I can tell you that General Fund ended the year at excess revenues of 8.8 million. Now, don't -- I mean the number looks large, but, please, remember a couple slides ago, the General Fund is requesting 7.8 million alone just in carry forward to finish those capital projects for the General Fund. So, if we had actually spent those dollars in '17, we would have been left with about maybe a million dollars in, quote, unquote, excess revenues, which would be pretty solid out of a 58 million dollar budget. But, again, since we didn't complete the projects in '17, we will complete them in '18. So, we will use 7.8 million of this 8.8 million, quote, unquote, excess revenues that we add to the General Fund balance in fiscal '18. So, the question is, you know, where do these revenue funds -- excess revenues come from? We actually managed to fund accordingly by funds themselves and you can see who contributes to what and what contributes to who. At the end of the day for 8.8 million dollars, again, this will be added to the General Fund balance, which I will show it to you in a few slides, but know that 7.8 of that is, quote, unquote, used for carry forward needs. So, the question now is for Enterprise Fund. How did they do? Same equation. Enterprise Fund did end the year up in a positive position again. Awesome. Awesome problem to have. They were going to add 3.7 million to their fund balance and of that -- how that is broken down -- again, we will be requesting some fund balance use in 2018, like we talked about, about 21 million and I will talk about that a little bit more in the next slides. I mentioned I was going to inform you who our biggest revenue sources are for the General Fund and this is who generates revenue for your General Fund over the last few years. Again, as you know, property taxes are our number one provider and we got to really take care of that revenue stream. The other revenue streams are somewhat controlled outside of our ability. So, we want to make sure we manage all of our revenue sources accordingly. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 46 of 63 Did the same thing for the Enterprise Fund. The Enterprise Fund -- again, these are the primary revenue sources and on an average it will always be your water and sewer sales and we have 36,000 customers. As we continue to grow customers our sales should grow accordingly. Great year last year for assessment revenues and we are expecting the same in fiscal '18. You guys have seen all the development agreements. You have approved the development agreements, you guys know what's coming down the pipe. So, those numbers are continuing -- continuing to grow. I mentioned I was going to inform you who our biggest or largest expenditure sources are. So, within the General Fund our largest expenditure source is the police personnel costs, followed by the fire personnel costs and, then, you can see the following four accordingly. And, then, I have the same data for your Enterprise Fund. You can probably guess it's going to be our wastewater treatment plant expansion projects and that will most likely to be the trend for the next few years. We have a lot of projects going over there, so they should be up there at the top, which is a -- that's a good thing. We have -- have we a lot of construction we need to take care of, but this is how the largest expenditure sources stretch for the Enterprise Fund. So, fund balance. I mentioned that we had some excess revenue in the General Fund, which is true. We added 8.8 million dollars to the General Fund. So, fiscal year ending 9/30/2017 the General Fund has 53 -- a little over 53 million dollars in its fund balance. So, your question is probably what do you -- you know, what do we do with this fund balance. Again, as I mentioned, 7.8 of that fund balance is going to be used for fiscal year '17's carry forward items. So, we have to take 7.8 million off of that. That's already assigned and restricted. We have about 15 million reserved for our emergency fund. Our standard best practice here is that we reserve four months of our standard operating expenses. So, 15 million represents 14 - - or four months, I apologize, of our operating and personnel needs. So, that's what 15 million is for. We have 20 million assigned for CIP projects over the next five years. So, it's that whole save as you go, pay as you go. We are not going to borrow. That's 20 million slated for that. And that leaves about 10 million for amendment. Any other projects that we could assign to for the pay as you go, save as you go. We have plenty more CFP projects that we can assign this to, we just did not assign that final ten to any particular project. Enterprise Fund. Again, we added 3.7 million, like we had discussed. I can tell you they are a little over 50 million dollar fund balance. We are going to have 20.9 million assigned to carry forward items that we talked about on their expense capital lines, leaving ten million for their emergency reserves. We have a six month operating reserve for that side of the business. And, then, that leaves about 20 million scheduled for future CFP projects -- CFP projects that we have not, quote, unquote, assigned, but we know that they are going to be used for the expansion projects, just not to a particular exact line item yet, but pretty much they are assigned to the future expansion needs for the treatment plant. And those are your fund balance numbers. Again, Kevin Smith is our audit partner, will go over these numbers at a higher level than this. He will be here on the 27th to present to you. But those are the fiscal year 2017 audited financial results and with that I can answer any questions about that before I move on to nonfinancial stuff. De Weerd: Thank you, Todd. Council, any questions? Okay. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 47 of 63 Lavoie: Thank you, Mayor. And these next few slides I'm going to try to just go over pretty quick. These are slides I just want to present to you as a different way of looking at our financial results. We use them to help with our planning, our forecasting. These are kind of trend reports. I just have a few of them here that I just want to bring to your attention. They are on our kind of close watch list. We call them ratio -- revenue to expense ratios. What we do is we compare the expenditure to the amount of revenue we have. So, how much of our revenue are we assigning to its particular cost. We analyzed about 50 different costs, cell phones, personnel wages over time, healthcare. We want to know are we expanding more of our revenue sources to a particular cost over time and, then, we have to ask the question is that good or bad and that's just, again, a tool in our toolbox that we use in our planning models and our forecasting. So, again, with that I'm going to go over just a few slides to show you kind of what we are looking at, bring to your attention some of the items that we think are important, that we are paying close -- paying close attention to and the first one is going to be in the General Fund. Total personnel costs. Total personnel costs in 2004 consumed 52 percent of all the revenue in the General Fund. So, you if had one dollar, I took 52 cents and put it to the personnel cost. And, then, also our operating in 2004, 25 percent. So, I would have taken 25 cents from that one dollar and put it to operating. So, if we switch fast forward to that, the financials of '17, you can see personnel costs now consume 62 cents or 62 percent of all of our revenue sources and the operating expense consumes 21. So, the question is, you know, what do we take from this? This is -- again, it's a tool, it's a report, it's a guide. We -- we wanted to I guess impose questions and we wanted to force questions. Is 62 percent the right number? Is 51 percent the right number? I can -- I can look at this report and say over the last five years and six years the personnel is not growing any faster or slower than the revenue sources that we are bringing in. That's why you see a flat graph on the personal side. That means they are both growing at about the same rate and the question is, you know, is this a good service that we are providing the citizens? I think the Mayor is -- and you guys know from your city survey, people are enjoying what we are getting. So, in theory we can now apply cost to service. If we know that the citizens are happy with what we are getting, we can kind of say, well, if we allocate 52 percent or 62 percent of our revenue towards personnel, that should meet our services that our customers and our citizens enjoy. So, again, it's just different -- different ways of looking at this, but it helps us as the executive branch to make decisions. You know, should we allocate more money of our revenue to personnel? Yes or no. Or, you know, and the opposite will be said for services. If our citizens aren't happy do we need to allocate more revenue to a particular service, so that we can get the customers happy. So, again, this is just a -- one of the few graphs that we looked at. Again, personnel is looking pretty good. It's not growing any faster or slower than the revenue sources for the General Fund, which is a great -- a great problem to have. Enterprise Fund. We look at the exact same approach. We use the total revenue for the Enterprise Fund. Again, their personnel started in 2004 at 18 percent, ended 2017 at 19 percent. So, it's pretty flat. It's pretty good where we want it to be. That means their expenses aren't growing any faster than the revenue sources. So, that's a good thing. And same thing for the expenditures. They are actually -- expenditures are incurring less of the revenue dollars. So, again, we use these as just tools. Again, it is not going to dictating any Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 48 of 63 particular answer, it's just a tool in our toolbox to help provide our forecast and guides for you, the citizens, and the Council. Here is another particular one that we keep a close eye on. It's benefit cost. Benefit costs -- you can see in 2004 had a consumption of about 5.5 percent and now it's consuming 8.4 percent of your revenue source. So, this angle is a concerning angle for us. The question is how -- how high can we get this -- or how high can we maintain this blue line. I mean do we want to continue to put more of our revenue into benefits. That's for us to talk about. So, that's what this graph shows us, like, hey, we are spending more and more money of our dollars on benefits, good or bad. You have a benefits committee, that's what we discuss and we try to give you the best guidance that we feel is in the best interest of the city and the citizens, but, again, this is one that we are keeping an eye on. I'm sure you're all aware of benefit costs for getting -- we are feeling that impacts as well and that's what this shows here. So, it shows benefit costs are growing faster than the revenue sources that we are generating here at the City of Meridian. And, then, over time for General Fund, staying pretty flat. That means overtime is not growing any faster or slower than the revenue sources that we are generating. So, that's a sustainable path for the General Fund over time. So, again, we also look at benefits as a percentage of personnel costs. So, what we want to know is personnel costs growing because of wages, is it overtime, is it workers comp? In this case we can see benefits is growing at a faster rate than the wages are within the personnel costs. So, again, just some tools that we use -- we have in our toolbox, we just want to show you that helps us in our forecasting and our projections for the City of Meridian. I will go over these next two pretty quick. Enterprise Fund we do the exact same thing. Oops. Sorry. Enterprise Fund. They are able to manage their benefit costs a little bit better than the General Fund, because they have a fee based system. As their customers grow they can generate revenue a bit faster than we can in General Fund. So, they are doing quite well in their management of the benefit costs. But they have the same issue with benefit costs becoming more and more concerning within their overall personnel costs. That means it's growing faster than their wages and overtime. So, again, just tools in our tool box for us to continue to look at. Again another quick one for you is property taxes. This is a percentage of property taxes as compared to the entire General Fund revenue source. A flat line is a beautiful thing. That means property taxes are not growing any faster, nor are they growing any slower than the rest of the revenue sources that we are generating here at the -- at the City of Meridian. So, again, if we have a statement of, you know, property tax is growing too fast, too high, we can let any citizen know that, nope, they are growing as -- at the same rate as any other revenue source here at the City of Meridian. And, then, the same slide for the Enterprise Fund. Enterprise Fund you will see the water and sales -- water and sewer sales is going downward because the assessment revenue is growing faster than the sewer and water sales, which is a good problem to have. When water and sewer sales -- or assessment start to slow down, sales revenues will become a larger proportionate share of the total revenue source in the Enterprise Fund. So, again, all tools in our toolbox to help us with our decision making and what that -- what I presented to you hopefully quickly -- not too quickly -- your '17 actual results, your revenue sources, your expense sources, presented to you, your 9/30 fund balance and what we are doing with the fund balance. Your revenue -expense ratios and next May you will see us for our next quarterly Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 49 of 63 update. This is going to be the demographics, population, permit sales, you know, more stats, more graphs. I know you're excited about that. And, as always, we stand for any questions. D. Council: City Election Discussion De Weerd: Thank you, Todd. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you. Okay. We have Item No. D or Item D and I will turn this to Mr. Nary. Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This was brought up in a prior meeting about having a future conversation that we scheduled for tonight on changing the method of how seats are elected in the city. So, in the state of Idaho, just to give you a little snapshot, you can elect seats either by at large, which means the top vote getters for however many number of seats you have at that particular election, get elected. You can designate seats, which is what we do, and two other cities in this county do. The city of Boise and I believe it's the city of Eagle have designated seats. And, then, the -- the other method that you can have is by district. So, there is three ways that you can elect council members statewide. You just have to select it. This started in '87. 1 have actually looked at the minutes for 1987 and it appears they talked about this for five minutes, if that, that they decided that it sounded like a good idea and so they just said let's do it by seats. So, they did. Then we -- that expanded to six in 2013 and we haven't had any other changes. There is approximately 12 cities in the state that we could look -- we could find, including the City of Meridian, that elects council members by seats. All the other cities that we can find elect them at large. No city in the state of Idaho elects their council members currently by districts and you can do it a couple different ways. If you choose to do districts, you create districts that, then, the person within the district -- only the people within the district can vote for that representative or you could have people live in the district, but have the entire at large city vote for them. So, those are the three different ways of doing that, to give you kind of a baseline on how that was done, again, up until 1984 all cities in the state did at large and only since, then, have they changed. But there is some methods and process if you wish to change it to something else that we could get into if that's the direction. That's it. De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Ms. Milam. Milam: Madam Mayor. So, I wanted to discuss this, because I have watched these elections over the last several years. There are times when we have many people running and, then, there are times when we have nobody running and -- and it seems the times when people are interested in running for offices when there is an open seat, because running against an incumbent is known to be much more difficult than running for an open seat or against other people who are not currently elected. So, in my opinion it levels the playing field. If we were -- if we were to change to a pool type voting, everybody has to work a little harder. If you're an incumbent you can't just sit back and have nobody run against you and I think it will encourage more people to run for office. It would encourage more people to go -- you know, to go for it and more -- I Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 50 of 63 think more candidates equals better candidates and, otherwise, the only -- the only people that -- the way we do it is good for is the incumbent, in my opinion, and I'm the next one up for election, so -- anyway, let's have a discussion. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Madam Mayor and Councilman Milam, how is it different than if they are -- I mean even if there is an open seat or there is multiple open seats or there is not, you're either running against all the incumbents on the ballot or you're -- if there is an open seat there is an open seat and you can pick the open seat, I don't see how it's different. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: It's different, because if there is -- if there is no open seat, so the last election we had there was an open seat, but the incumbents nobody ran against; right? And it's because it's known -- it is really difficult to run against an incumbent and an incumbent is almost always going to win and so it discourages people from running when they have to run against an incumbent, because it's already a scary thing to do to run for election and so I think -- if it was just a pool -- sorry. I know what I'm saying. I'm sick is what I really want to say. Then -- it will. It just will. So, they are not just running directly -- it's just you and one other person or two other people, more people would run for office. I truly believe that. And we are like nine states -- nine cities out of 200 cities that do it this way. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: This past election the three -- three of us that won would have been the top three vote getters and so how does that sway your -- your thought process? Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Sometimes it would turn out I think the same and sometimes it would turn out different. I think that it would at least make everybody -- I mean, yes, the incumbents are still in the pool, but it will make them have to work a little harder and not just, you know, sit back and just -- well, if nobody is going to run against me, because I'm an incumbent, I don't have to do anything and that's what happened with me the last election, so -- I didn't have any opponent and I just could sit back and not do anything and that's kind of what got me thinking about it and I just don't think that it's fair for Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 51 of 63 everybody and my goal here is to get more citizens involved and get more people running for office and to keep it going strong and not necessarily just have the same six people for 20 years going forward. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Council Member Milam, I hear wholeheartedly what you are trying to accomplish. I think that as a community that has grown at the level that Meridian has, we should be inviting more interest and the Council, of course, when they expanded the Council four to six and we saw a significant amount of interest as a result. I actually really applaud your perspective in trying to create a level playing field for our public to not feel like that the odds are stacked up against them if they were to run against an incumbent. I think that's what you're trying to articulate. I will just share of the flip side of that argument and that is at the AIC day at the capital this year I had the opportunity to engage with some other local leaders from other municipalities and they were asking me the opposite question. How is it to have seats, because we feel that it creates an unfair disadvantage to our citizens that they are not running against just one incumbent, but they are running against two or three incumbents in many cases and they feel that by having an all open seat that it is more prohibitive to accomplish the goal that you have wanted to set out, which is create a level playing field, and so there are many municipalities across the state that are having these same conversations, but wanting to do it opposite, moving from an at large system to a more seat based system, because they feel it would create a more level playing field. So, it's hard, because I -- I applaud what you are trying to accomplish, I just don't know if creating an environment where if I want to run for local office that I would fare better against one incumbent or two incumbents or three incumbents or an open seat with six people running. The other piece of that is that I know you well to know that you didn't just sit on your butt when you were unopposed, that I believe the people that get elected get elected because they care about our community and are willing to do the work, whether they are opposed or not, and I think that our citizens recognize that. So, I would hope -- and maybe that's Pollyanna of that that regardless if someone is opposed or unopposed as an incumbent or as a new candidate, that they would do their due diligence to engage our community to have them come out and supportive them. That's my two cents. Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: So, just to your AIC comment, I talked to you over there and so I started asking some people and I spoke with a friend of one of the gentlemen that you spoke to and he said the only reason he doesn't like that system is because he just about lost. As an incumbent and he almost lost and that's why he was opposing it. And this is somebody who knows him closely who they had that personal conversation with. So, I asked other people and they like it the pool way -- everybody that I talked to strongly supported the Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 52 of 63 pool way, so that's how they do it and you strongly support this way and that's how we do it, so -- you know. Bernt: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Bernt. Bernt: I don't know if there is a right or a wrong answer, to be honest with you. I know that if you have done a good job as an elected official and you have listened and you have been prudent and you have made, you know -- you know, you have kept your nose clean, so to speak, I think that you're going to -- I think that -- I think that the chances of you getting reelected, whether you're in a pool or whether you're in a seat - based system, is going to be the same. I mean it's evident with what happened this last election with Joe being unopposed and Luke and I having -- I wasn't an incumbent, it was an open seat, but with Luke having opponents, being an incumbent, the top three vote getters won and so I don't -- I just don't see -- I would like to see more data, actually. I would like to see facts and the data as it relates to what we are talking about, not necessarily our own personal opinions or -- not that you're wrong or I'm right, I just -- I would like to see the data to see if what happened this last election is the norm or if it was an anomaly personally. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Madam Mayor. One major benefit to the pool version -- pool side would be that someone can't file to run as an incumbent and, then, at 4:55 on the filing deadline come in and withdraw and put who you prefer in as a candidate. That would make that irrelevant. Bernt: I don't understand. Palmer: So, the last day to file -- so, an incumbent can file to run and, then, on the last day -- and, then, have nobody run against him, because, of course, that guy might win. On the last day of filing at 4:55 come in, withdraw, have somebody else file to run, 5:00 o'clock happens and it's over. That person is -- Milam: Great. I like the sound of that. Palmer: I mean the political campaign came that that is, but it's an awkward thing that would prevent. De Weerd: Six years ago when I had a transition team that came together and they talked about this, which is one of the -- the recommendations to expand the council from four to six or at least put it out for a public vote. They talked about all -- these two forms, but also a third and that was the -- by -- by location. So, have the seats more Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 53 of 63 determined than at large by location as part of Meridian. So, geographic. And Council at that time was more focused on the -- whether we should expand the numbers or not. Didn't really pick up the discussion on whether it should be by geographic location similar to our state representatives and senators. So, at that time there was no obvious preference. We could certainly see if he has data and we can bring this back for further discussion and -- Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Milam. Milam: To address Councilman Bernt. Your point of being the top vote getters, that's because you could only vote for these -- these in the seat and in this seat. If you were all pooled together, that -- those numbers would not be the same, because it might have been -- it could have been two people from -- from your group or two people from his group, you know, what I'm saying? So, you were in the top, because you were the winners in your seat category. The math would not work out the same if you were pooled together. Not that it couldn't. You still could three win, but it's not -- it's not guaranteed, because that's why you're -- Bernt: Good point. Palmer: Madam Mayor? blayff=— AM Timun m Palmer: Is it a pick three? De Weerd: Okay. We will see what information is out there and bring it back for further discussion. Milam: Thank you. F. Council: Commission and Board Updates De Weerd: Okay. Item 7-F is going through and talking about anything that is pressing or noteworthy in each of your areas and we can start with Mrs. Littler Roberts. Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Probably the most pressing thing right now with the Air Quality Board is the fact that there is a bill in the legislature that will stop the testing from cars built in 2007 forward. Right now there is a rolling ten year and so cars built from 2007 forward testing would cease and it would just about cut air quality testing in half revenuewise and we are looking for data to see if ten years from now -- because right now it's a rolling ten years. If ten years from now do we need to be testing those cars in 2007 and so there is -- there is a lot going on with that right now and if we need help regarding the bill I will reach out to everyone. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 54 of 63 De Weerd: Mr. Borton? Borton: Madam Mayor, the -- the internal legislative committee has been tracking a number of bills. A couple have risen to the front enough for the city to take a position on. We are going to circulate an update on those, hopefully, this week. I think Robert is getting that out. One concerns back flow testing and changing and kind of loosening some of the restrictions on back flow testing and lengthening the period of time when inspections need to be done. A number of bills are being monitored from cannabis oil and for -- for aspects of potential legalization of certain marijuana uses. Obviously, the magistrate court funding legislation is being monitored as well. The use of public funds for candidates and bond issues, as well as the frequency in which bond issues may or may not be able to be run. All of those are being monitored. So, there is -- little is being -- a position taken on, but several that are being tracked, both by the city and by AIC. De Weerd: Just to add to that, the -- the committee did recommend to support H-500, which is on child abuse reporting and -- no? Yes. And, then, also on the -- the mentioned backflow testing. As well just last Friday was introduced H-546 and HCR -43. Those are MYAC's legislation, both a legislative bill and a resolution. HCR -43 did pass out of the committee with a unanimous vote. H-546 was moved forward for a hearing. It was ready to be voted on to pass to the floor, but they did want to give the opportunity for other MYAC students to come and testify in favor of the bill. So, they are waiting to hear when that hearing is. There were -- yeah. The other ones we are watching. Any further report? Borton: No. De Weerd: Okay. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener. Cavener: Can either you or Council Member Borton just explained to Council the matrix for the decision making process that determines if the city is supporting a bill or not supporting a bill and how -- and how Council will be informed of that? I don't think it would necessarily make sense for us to be -- I can report in next month on legislative issues that the city is or is not supporting over the next few weeks. So, maybe you could educate us how that decision is arrived at and how we are going to be informed of that. De Weerd: You were at one of those legislative meetings, so if you -- you have experienced each of the subject -- subject experts that came and talked in particular to any of the legislation that would impact their department and put that out on the table for further discussion. Part of that discussion as well as been brought in what AIC has brought in terms of data points and perspectives from across the state. There is Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 55 of 63 discussion by the group and as you can see from the one that was actually supported that were opposed, had to do with the back flow testing, that was all data driven from the statistics that we got from our Public Works Department. That was compelling enough to take an official stand. The same with the child abuse reporting, that the recommendation came from our chief, as well as the chiefs association as to why that legislation made sense to take an official stand. So, those were the two and, of course, with the organ donation being driven by our Mayor's Youth Advisory Council, we are supporting our kids. Palmer: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: When you say an official stand, what does that, then, entail? De Weerd: Mr. Palmer, in regards to the back flow testing, we do have a representative that Public Works works with and they will be working to educate our lawmakers in terms of why the back flow testing program is important to the City of Meridian. Out of the 9,000 accounts that we test every year, we have more than 300 fail and that does put our water supply at risk. Historically I think that the city has always taken a strong stand on our back flow testing program, that felt that that was compelling enough to -- to take a firm stand and so they will be using a white paper that they have prepared on it and using that to help reach out to our lawmakers. Palmer: If I may. What was the MYAC legislation? De Weerd: The MYAC legislation, for those that were not at the legislative breakfast, was regarding organ donation and their -- their resolution was to encourage a greater outreach and education and encourage our citizens to -- from all ages to sign up as organ donors. The legislation itself is to -- for teens that are under 18 that choose to have -- that choose to donate their organs have a designation on their license -- on their license ID and they have this for three specific areas. One, to have that conversation with their parents and their parents would -- you still would have to have parental permission. Two, it's -- they brought in research data that showed an organ donated has to be within 15 years of the recipient's age, so they found that the younger patients that need an organ donation or tissue or any of those items don't have organ donors that are eligible, because the organs are too old. So, they are -- they are not finding a list of potential candidates and -- I can't remember the third now. So, that was just off the top of my head. Milam: Yeah. I think because of having the conversation with their parents they are hoping that more parents will also sign up to be donors. De Weerd: Thank you. There are two different designations, so -- that the parents can mark if they have to be present before organs are donated or they can also mark a box that they don't have to be present before those are harvested. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 56 of 63 Palmer: Madam Mayor. So, there was just two in which the city took an official stance? De Weerd: Yes. Palmer: And going forward -- I mean those two are, you know, fairly innocuous, but if -- I'm just worried -- with how fast the legislature goes and I don't know who is on this committee making these decisions on this official stance the city takes, just concerned if there would be a letter sent with my name on it about legislation that I had no idea I was officially supporting as a city, would hope there be some kind of communication that, hey, the city is interested in taking a stance on this, get your opinions in quick. Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: Seems really that your explanation and these questions seem to invite an opportunity to improve the process in which this is done. It's my understanding that the structure that's happened year after a year has been the directors and it sounds like Council President and the Mayor and -- and they have taken positions on legislation, but -- but there may be a better way to do it to, one, keep the Council as a whole informed, have an opportunity to provide input, agreement or disagreement. These meetings -- we have them on Friday mornings. Perhaps we can have that group do the same process with the same people with the same recommendations and monitor many bills, but if there is a desire for them to take a position on a bill, that the group makes a vote or decision to recommend supporting or opposing a particular bill and that's the agenda day as well on Tuesday. We can have -- at least during the session a standing agenda item perhaps with a brief report. There is not a lot of bills that we are taking action on where someone from that committee makes a brief presentation, we support bill XYZ, here is why. If there is information to share in advance we can do that. We could ask questions, all be on the same page, and take a vote and if it's four -two on a particular bill, the city as a single unit would support or oppose the bill, but we have all had the opportunity to at least say I like it or I don't or I have questions that need to be answered. De Weerd: I think that's an excellent suggestion, generally when anything is decided at the legislative meeting it usually triggers writing a white paper. That white paper can, then, come to Council and you can see, because, really, the data that we are -- we are compiling is -- is really intended to help AIC as well. Borton: We could turn it around in two days. De Weerd: And I will note that we haven't always agreed with the positions taken with AIC, so -- but where we do we will help and provide background information. So, we can do that, Mr. Clerk. Okay. Anything further? Okay. Mr. Palmer. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 57 of 63 Palmer: Madam Mayor. I will try to keep it brief. The -- the main thing lately that's I guess concerning is we got a little issue that we had anticipated, having a fire station for the new firemen that have been hired that the rural district has paid for to get us going for the first year, but we won't have a fire station for about a year -- maybe just short of a year until -- we will have funded them for another year without a station for them to be in. So, there is some advantages and disadvantages. That advantage being we will have some very expensive data in how additional staff, additional firemen can help offset and handle our overtime issues that we have been dealing with, but at a great cost of having that data and we will have some really well trained firemen going into a new station. But, in the meantime, we are going to have a year of paying for them without them having their own station. So, that's my report. De Weerd: Council, I serve on a number of things. I will just hit the top ones. With COMPASS you -- you will be getting a discussion here in a moment -- did I skip something? I did. Sorry. I will get to Caleb. Because on the COMPASS agenda we do have a discussion regarding the ITIP, the Idaho Transportation Improvement Plan, and the city is advocating for one of those, which is six million for Highway 16 that is for design and updating the environmental and Caleb has a letter that we would like to send on behalf of the city. There will be I'm sure healthy discussion and I wanted to make sure that -- that the city did go on the record as to what our position is. Other than that, AIC has established a drug task force, which I will chair, and so has the Treasure Valley partnership, their focus on opioids. MYAC. MYAC has introduced their bills and they are moving through their participatory budgeting phase and, lastly, with our Faith Ambassadors Council, they have been focusing their conversations on suicide awareness. In particular this last meeting was on two veterans organizations on -- I will save the rest for later. Bernt: Madam Mayor, I have nothing to report in my liaison report. Everything that -- that the parks and rec commission is doing -- is going on with them -- was going on in their department has been submitted or talked about to Council by staff. So, I have nothing to add. 914T c=2 4MNMO n— Milam: Madam Mayor. I will just try to keep this extra brief. You heard from Legal. HR is a very, very busy working on budget kind of things and arts is working on what they do, art and murals and Solid Waste Advisory Commission, that's where they got stuff going on and everybody is talking about the orange bags. We have had special meetings. We have had the town hall. And, then, we met with the DOW people and ask a lot of questions, if we can get involved in that program. So, we are doing a lot of investigation right now to see if -- if and when and how that would work, what it looks like and how much it would cost, so that we don't have to throw our plastics away. And that's it for me. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 58 of 63 Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Milam: Was that too fast? Borton: No. We gave an orange bag update on next Council meeting. Cavener: Madam Mayor. My comments will be somewhat brief. First, on the -- on the department liaison side, I'm the Public Works liaison and was very fortunate that Dale and his team put together a Public Works slash Enterprise Fund 101 and 102 advanced studies program for myself, which, you know, being on the Council for four years you have a good understanding and have the opportunity to kind of dive a little deeper. I know that Dale is open and available if any of the other Council Members would want to go through that. It's really lengthy, so I would encourage if some of us are interested in doing that to maybe coordinate so that staff time is used most efficiently. But I came away from it with a -- with a different respective and a little bit of a different view in the department, the way it functions, both in the short term and the long term and I thought it was well worth my time as well. I do not have anything to report from VRT or the Transportation Commission, because this month I was absent at both of those meetings. De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. If there is anything further we can submit it in writing, otherwise, we will have it again next month. Or if you have anything more urgent we would love to put it onto our agenda as well. E. Transportation Plans, Studies and Projects Update De Weerd: Caleb, do you want to talk real quick about -- and I apologize. Hood: So -- thanks, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Item 7-E, the department report for transportation plan studies and projects update, just -- if you want to get that letter over to COMPASS sooner rather than later. If not, we could defer it, Mayor, until next week. If you have any comments send them to me, I could update the letter, sign it, still gives you enough time before the board meeting. I will not go through the memo, but I will wave it at you. There is one in your packet. We will just use it next week. If the Clerk and the Mayor are okay, I would just like to table this discussion. De Weerd: Okay. Hood: Pay particular attention to our priorities next week, because we are going to probably have to make it through that in one meeting, just so we can get them to ACHD in time. But we certainly don't have time today. So, if you can look at -- beginning on page -- my page is -- on page one. That doesn't help much. The integrated five year work plan for ACHD and the table that's at the very end, if you can review those and be prepared to discuss that next week, that would be great. Thank you. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 59 of 63 De Weerd: Okay. Counsel, I would appreciate if you had a chance to look at that, we do want to support Highway 16 and the needed funding to update the environmental and to support the design, so we know where that right of way aligns. That's important to our community. And if there is no problem with that -- okay. No problem? And apologize. Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Yes. Cavener: Just maybe a request for good Council Member Bernt to maybe have his name added at the top of the letter. At least on the draft it doesn't have his name on it. Borton: The old stationary. De Weerd: Oh, yeah. Okay. Thank you. And just for the record, I did in COMPASS right now we have Charlie and myself as the representatives and I think Anna is our alternate. I believe. In April they will be coming out with the new population totals. If Meridian does jump the hundred thousand mark we will add one more seat. So one of you lucky City Council members will be asked to consider participating. Maybe it always goes to the new guy; is that right? So, keep that in mind. Item 8: Ordinances A. Ordinance No.18-1765 : An Ordinance (H-2017-0066 — 2'/2 Street Townhomes) of the City of Meridian granting the re -zone of a Parcel of Land Situated in the Northwest One Quarter of Section 7, Township 3 North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in the attached Exhibit "A"; Establishing and Determining the Land Use Zoning Classification of Said Lands of 3.07 Acres of Land from C -C (Community Business District) and R-15 (Medium High Density Residential District) to O -T (Old Town District) in the Meridian City Code; Providing that Copies of this Ordinance Shall be Filed with the Ada County Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as Required by Law; and Providing for a Summary of the Ordinance; and Providing for a Waiver of the Reading Rules; and Providing for An Effective Date. De Weerd: Ordinance 8-A is 18-1765. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this by title. Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 18-1765: An Ordinance file H-2017-0066 — 2'/2 Street Townhomes, of the City of Meridian granting the re -zone of a parcel of land situated in the Northwest One Quarter of Section 7, Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 60 of 63 Township 3 North, Range 1 East, Boise meridian, Ada county, Idaho, as described in the attached Exhibit "A"; establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of said lands of 3.07 acres of land from C -C (Community Business District) and R-15 (Medium High Density Residential District) to O -T (Old Town District) in the Meridian City Code; providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada county assessor, the Ada county recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as required by law; and providing for a summary of the ordinance; and providing for a waiver of the reading rules; and providing for an effective date. De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title. Is there anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Do I have a motion from Council? Milam: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mrs. Milam. Milam: Move we approve Ordinance No. 18-1765 with suspension of rules. Cavener: Second. De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-A. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll. Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 9: Future Meeting Topics De Weerd: Real quick under Item 9, City Hall will be closed on Monday for President's Day. MYAC is having their CPR day in February 23rd. This is in partnership with the Meridian Dutch Bros. So, please, get out and go get a coffee or a beverage at Dutch Bros and -- and learn CPR. Save a life. So, the kids would love it if you stop by and just tell them -- tell them that you appreciate what they are doing. Early voting starts at City Hall on February 26 for the upcoming school bond and levy and Ignite Youth is on February 26th, 7:00 to 9:00, at Research Church. That's just by the US Bank building on Cherry Lane. So, if there is no further items under this -- Cavener: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 61 of 63 Cavener: For a future meeting topic, I guess in light of some information Council Member Palmer just shared, it would probably be ideal for us to get an update on the time table related to Station 6 and how that potential change impacts -- you know, I don't know whether the staffing plan remains as is or just what -- I just think it would be a good update as to what's going on with that project, so that we can all be aware, as we move into budget season, would be beneficial. De Weerd: We can definitely do that. Okay. Since we do have a joint meeting, that's supposed to be kicking off about 40 minutes ago, we can tack this onto the end of that agenda. Nary: You can just continue this meeting, Madam Mayor, to the end of the joint meeting with the Planning and Zoning. De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion? Bernt: So moved, Little Roberts: Second. De Weerd: He said so moved. And a second. Okay. The motion was to -- to continue this to the next agenda at the end. All those in favor say aye. Did I hear all ayes? Okay. All ayes. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. (Recess: 6:19 p.m. to 9:11 p.m.) Item 10: Executive Session communicate per Idaho State Code 74-206(1)(f): To with legal counsel for the public agency to discuss the legal ramifications of and legal options for pending litigation, or controversies not yet being litigated but imminently likely to be litigated. De Weerd: Do I have a motion to adjourn into Executive Session per our regular City Council meeting agenda? Borton: Madam Mayor? De Weerd: Mr. Borton. Borton: You do. Move we go into Executive Session pursuant to Idaho State Code 74- 2076(1)(f). Palmer: Second. Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 62 of 63 De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll. Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea; Bernt, yea. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. EXECUTIVE SESSION: (9:11 p.m. to 9:57 p.m.) Palmer: Mr. President? Borton: Mr. Palmer. Palmer: Okay. Now that we are back. Borton: Yes. Palmer: I move we adjourn. Milam: Second. Borton: Got to come out of Executive Session first. Milam: Oh. Palmer: I move we come out of Executive Session. Borton: Second? Bernt: Second. Borton: All in favor? MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Palmer: Mr. President, I move we adjourn. Milam: Aye. Second. Borton: All in favor? MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:57 A.M. (AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) Meridian City Council February 6, 2018 Page 63 of 63 -` MAVOR R TAMM E WEERD ATTEST: C. JAY CC D71 DATE APPROVED