HomeMy WebLinkAbout2018-01-16Meridian City Council January 16,
2018.
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday,
January 16, 2018, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam, Ty Palmer, Luke
Cavener, Anne Little Roberts and Treg Bernt.
Others Present: Bill Nary, C.Jay Coles, Caleb Hood, Sonya Allen, Kyle Radek, Berle
Stokes, Mark Niemeyer, Steven Siddoway, Chris Pope and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Anne Little Roberts X Joe Borton
X Ty Palmer X Keith Bird
X Genesis Milam _X_ Lucas Cavener
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I'm going to go ahead and start tonight's meeting. First I would like
to welcome all of you to our City Council meeting. For the record it is Tuesday, January
16th. It's a few minutes after 6:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Justin Jordan with Real Life Ministries
De Weerd: Okay. Item 3. Pastor Jordan is ill tonight.
Item 4: Adoption of Agenda
De Weerd: So, we will skip to Item 4, adoption of the agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Borton.
Borton: Item -- there are no changes made to the agenda, so I would move that we
adopt the agenda as published.
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Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda is published. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk?
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We had a few sign-ups this evening, providing the --
a description of redesignation of Old Town. However, that is an item on your agenda
this evening at 8-A.
De Weerd: Okay. If you will call the names who signed up and if the testimony does
belong under 8-A, if you would concede to delaying your comments until that time.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. The first on the list was Patricia Yost in
redesignation of Old Town.
De Weerd: Patricia, is it okay to hear it under the -- the item -- okay. Awesome.
Coles: Next is Al Fleming, redesignation of Old Town.
De Weerd: Mr. Fleming, would you be okay to hear your comments -- okay. Thank you
so much.
Coles: Teresa Dominick. Same description. Redesignation of Old Town.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Coles: John Dominick the same. And that was all the sign-ups.
Item 6: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of January 9, 2018 City Council Workshop
Meeting
B. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Settlers Square
Subdivision (PP 15-0014) by Seagle Three, LLC Located at the
Northwest Corner of West Ustick Road and North Venable
Avenue
C. Final Order for Fall Creek Meadows (H-2017-0160) by Thomas
Coleman, Toll ID I, LLC located South of W. Overland Road on
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the East Side of S. Linder Road
D. Approval of Agreement to BRICON, INC. for the LINDER RD
SIDEWALK WIDENING project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of
$117,400.00.
E. Agreement Between MDC and City for Contribution to 2018
Meridian Farmer's Market
F. Jump Time Water Main Easement
G. AP Invoices for Payment - $1,744,814.93
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: No additions to the Consent Agenda, I would move that we adopt and approve
the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr. Clerk,
will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From The Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Community Development: Meridian's Community Development
Block Grant Downtown Redevelopment Report and Area
Designation
1. Resolution No.17-2052: A resolution approving submission
and adoption of the City of Meridian Redevelopment Report
and Area Designation to the United States Department of
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Housing and Urban Development; authorizing the Mayor and
City Clerk to execute and attest the same on behalf of the
City of Meridian; and approving an effective date.
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8-A under our Community Development
Department on the CDBG redevelopment report and area designation. Good evening,
Chris.
Pope: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Does this one work? There we go.
Okay. Just before I start, can I get a show of hands who is here for this agenda item,
just so I can get an idea? Okay. Madam Mayor, with your permission -- would you
mind if I flipped the podium around, so I'm addressing them, rather than you all? This is
information I presented to you guys before. I just wanted to --
De Weerd: I think that sounds just fine.
Pope: Okay. So, for those of you who are here because you received a letter in the
mail in the last few weeks about a proposed redevelopment report and area designation
regarding property that you own in the downtown area, this presentation will hopefully
answer some of your questions that you may have, but a lot of it is probably going to be
reiterated from the detail that's in the letter. The City Council, about a month ago on
December 12, has already received this -- essentially this exact same presentation, so
they are aware. But we will take some questions from them as well and there will be an
opportunity to provide some feedback if you have any questions or concerns later. But I
guess I will move forward with this. So, this agenda item is regarding the Community
Development Block Grant or CDBG redevelopment report and area designation in the
downtown area. To give a little bit of a background, the City of Meridian receives funds
from the United States Department of Housing and Urban Development on an annual
basis to provide for the needs in terms of development and services of individuals and
areas in the community. Those funds go towards specific projects in the community
and each year there is an application process in order to review whether our project is
eligible, what kind of funds are available, and, then, to strive to carry out and meet those
needs. Under the CDBG program there is three specific areas where you can actually
have an eligible project in order to receive funding. The first is a project that benefits
low to moderate income residents and that's done on an area basis. So, certain census
blocks that have at least 35 percent of the residents living in them that are low or
moderate income are eligible. Projects can be based within that area without real
question. Then there is also on a clientele basis. So, reaching out specifically to those
individuals who are residents in Meridian who are low to moderate income. That's
something that is pretty separate than what we are going to talk about tonight. I want to
jump to the third bullet here. The third I guess little bucket that we can -- in terms of
projects that we can fund are based on urgent needs in the community. This is
something that Meridian has never really experienced or put money towards. Most of it
is faced towards pretty heavy emergencies and natural disasters. We haven't had
anything too pressing. I mean last year's Snowmageddon was pretty -- was pretty
pressing for a lot of us; right? But in terms of mobilizing funds in order to meet specific
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projects and needs, this program has not been done in Meridian. The second bullet
here is the one we are talking about today and that's -- these funds can be used for
projects that do anything to eradicate substandard conditions that can lead to or
contribute to any kind of slum or blight in the community. This is something that we
have never founded a project for yet. Generally speaking funding has gone to clientele
or the areas that are already determined to be benefiting low to moderate income
residents of the community. We haven't really looked at trying to address any
substandard conditions in our community at all, but that's kind of what we are -- we are
hoping to address with the expansion of this plan, this area designation, is opening up a
substandard conditions base so the projects to be funded through CDBG moving
forward in a specific area of the downtown core. In order to do this we have to define a
redevelopment area according to federal guidelines. That requires us to determine an
area to assess, looking at conditions based on local and state codes that we are
actually assessing, and developing a forum by which we can assess properties, going
out and, then, doing the assessments and, then, pulling the data together to see if that
area meets the eligibility guidelines set forth by -- by HUD or the Housing and Urban
Development and, then, developing some kind of formal report or proposal that outlines
what we are -- what we are talking about and what we are trying to accomplish here.
There is a group of stakeholders kind of brought together on the planning side of things.
Most of them are city employees, but also some engineers that we consulted with,
members of the Historical Society and other commissions, including the administrator of
the Meridian Development Corporation. We didn't involve community stakeholders or
property owners, because this is a planning process and there wasn't really any
situation in which we are proposing any kind of projects or anything like that. But your
feedback is going to be helpful to us as we move forward after this, but in terms of the
day-to-day, going out and trying to figure out what the needs are and defining this area,
it was something that the planners were already working on and that's what we are
moving forward with at this point. So, to give you an idea of what the CDBG eligible
assessment area looks like, everything that you see here that is in green is considered
to be eligible for CDBG funding under the benefit to low to moderate income resident or
area guidelines. These census tracks in the block groups are eligible for projects to be
used. But as you can see there is -- there is a pretty significant portion of the downtown
area that isn't eligible for these funds and so whatever the need might be in this -- this
little portion of downtown that isn't in the green, funding can't be used to help meet
those needs. So, the assessment area that we came up with was what's here in the
brownish yellow kind of color. This allows us to move forward with prioritizing this area
of downtown as one that we can reinvest some funding into to help meet the needs that
you as property owners have defined as important and try to -- to reinvest these funds in
a way that could help improve public infrastructure, sidewalks, street lights, other things
of the sort. So, what we were looking for in terms of the methodology when we go out,
we are looking for conditions that present any kind of physical deterioration,
abandonment of properties, high occupancy turnover rates, declines in property values,
environmental contamination, public improvements that are in a state of deterioration or
any kind of property that presents any kind of danger or illness or any aspect of a
property that does that. Now, finding any of these things does not automatically mean a
negative thing for this property or this assessment and moving forward in terms of what
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we looked at, we did create an assessment form that for each property that's in this
area, we went through and assessed the properties based on what we saw the day that
we were there. Are there any hazardous conditions, any faulty signage or display
problems, like graffiti or things of the sort, any building elements that are damaged, like
facades or window -- or broken windows and the underutilized properties, just a
substandard property condition or any kind of code violations and for each property we
tallied up these things to get an understanding of what the property looks like in general.
Based on the number of substandard criteria that each property met, it would put the
property into a certain category for the sake of this assessment. Having any more than
four substandard criteria met for any given property would label it as either fair or poor
and that would -- that rating scale essentially allows that property to count towards
eligibility requirements for defining this area as a redevelopment area. So, in terms of
determining the eligibility of the area as a whole going through each property and tallied
everything up, all of the properties in the area had to be assessed and at least one
quarter or 25 percent of -- oh, my goodness. Sorry. I didn't even touch it that hard. All
of the -- all of the assessed properties, at least 25 percent or one quarter had to fall in
the fair or the poor range to qualify for funding as a redevelopment area and so, again,
this area is not saying that they are substandard criteria that are met by all properties
throughout the area, just that there are fair or poor scored properties on at least one
quarter of the properties in the area. So, the minimum to be met was 25 percent and
the actual that we found was 30 percent of the properties in the area fell into one of
those two categories. Essentially, these findings here show that there is a strong basis
for defining the study area as a mix of older properties and intermittent newer
development that presents the characteristics of substandard conditions in which we
can, then, define as a redevelopment area and start funding to get rid of those
substandard conditions based on community input and need. So, some of the findings,
to give you an idea of the things that -- the biggest contributing factors of
substandardness, the number one was just the sidewalks -- damaged or missing
sidewalks and I -- for those of you who live in that area that's nothing new. You
understand that there -- there is a big lack of sidewalks, particularly in the residential
areas of this particular area. In addition, cracking facades or facades that are broken or
dilapidated and, in addition to that, we also see landscaping -- neglected landscaping
being -- being an issue here that contributes and these are just some pictures. I
apologize if any of these are your properties. I didn't think about that before adding this
here. But I do want to highlight these, because, generally speaking, in the bottom left-
hand corner of this slide here you can see a sidewalk that is right next to an open
waterway that is broken. Those are two pretty hazardous conditions in general. Those
are things that we -- we want to fix and we want to explore opportunities to -- to remedy.
In addition to a canal that's going through a property, neglected landscaping or
underutilized property with damaged facades, these are things that we saw throughout
the particular areas of the community that we want -- we want to strive to -- to open the
doors to help fix. To give you an idea of the next steps that we are looking at for this
process, I kind of just outlined the planning process, how we develop this report and the
idea that we have. So, those of you who are property owners who are here, over the
last couple of weeks you received a letter and were invited to come here and talk today,
if you have any comments, and to learn more about this. That happened at the end of
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December. Today we are proposing that the Council adopt a resolution that adopts this
report and designates the area. I will talk a little bit more about what that actually
means in the long term, but it's kind of the first step of -- of what we want to do here.
Tomorrow, assuming that there is an adoption of that resolution in the area, we will -- I
will send the plan and the report to the federal government for review and approval.
Assuming that we get that approval, throughout this year we are going to start exploring
ways to address the needs of the area. Now, first and foremost we need to know what
you think is important for us to address. So, there will be plenty of outreach that's done
in order to get your ideas, to get your input to see what you want to see change in the
area, what you see are the main goals and priorities to look at and that kind of
information will happen through a number of meetings over the next couple of years,
probably, in order to really make sure that we are not going amiss with projects that we
are trying to put forward in your area. And, then, to kind of give you an idea what else
goes on, is the committee that originally met to plan is meeting every six months or so
to just make sure we are doing things right. Intermittently there will be meetings with
you all. We are hoping to do kind of more of a targeted outreach with -- with property
owners as well to kind of set up some informal conversation with you all about what we
want to do. In 2022, which I know is a far -- a far ways away, we will reassess the
properties, update the plans and, then, every decade the federal government requires
us to go through this entire process again to make sure that this is still an area that we
want to focus on and it's still an area that has needs. So, this is what we are looking at
over the next ten years, just in terms of a process. So, in terms of public outreach,
again, you received a two -- two or three page letter -- two pages of a letter and a map
that was sent to over 187 property owners that own property within this area. The
redevelopment report is online and available for anybody to access and read in its full
entirety with -- with other maps and pictures that you might want to look at. Comments
and questions I have been fielding and other staff members have been fielding for the
last few weeks about any concerns or ambiguities you may have after receiving this
letter and I'm hoping that this presentation does something to inform you -- to give a
little bit more detail what we are talking about when we are talking about redefining or
creating his redevelopment area. In this meeting here I hope we will have the
opportunity for some of you to -- to ask some questions directly to Council and to myself
in order to make sure that your concerns are heard in that. So, I do want to address the
general frequently asked questions, because I have had a lot of the same questions
asked. First and foremost, if you live outside of this area that we are talking about,
which I think is the majority of you who are here today for other agenda items, how does
this redevelopment report and area designation affect you, your property, and your
status as a property owner in Meridian? It absolutely does not. If you live outside this
area there is literally no effect of this area on any of those things in terms of your status
as a property owner, your property, or you as a resident and for those of you who live
inside of the area, which those of you who are -- can you raise your hand one more
time, just so I can -- okay. Wonderful. Thank you. How does this redevelopment area
or report and area designation affect my finances, my tax bill, my property's value or
land use, the physical structure or appearance of facilities, built or building on my
property or my status as a property owner. Now, that sounds like a lot of things and I
lumped them together for a very specific reason, because it doesn't affect any of those
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things. The process that we are undergoing today with this report and this area
designation does not affect any of those things for you as a property holder in this area.
But -- there is a but here. Because as we have conversations over the next few years
about what things you want to see changing, there will be some effect. You will have
some say in different things. Now, we are not tearing down houses. We are not
redeveloping property. A lot of what we see as needs, according to this assessment, is
really looking at public infrastructure, public facilities like street lights, looking at
landscaping, looking at sidewalks. There has been a lot of comments about public
utilities. There are a lot of different things that we want to start looking at, but, generally
speaking, this is not -- and I think I can speak for Council and the Mayor on this, that we
have no intention of doing anything to your property. No intention of taking it. No
intention of tearing it down. No intention of doing anything. And, frankly, this program
and its funds don't allow for any kind of activity like that. We are here to help -- we are
hoping to understand what you want to see happening in your community and this
process is simply to open the door, so that we can put money toward some of those
needs and that's kind of -- that's all. And I know that there is some -- some vagueness
about what was in the letter in terms of what does this mean for me, what does this
mean for my land use, what does it mean for my property and my facilities. There is --
there is no physical or financial effect on any of those things period and there won't be.
But there will be enhancements to the neighborhood as we start to define projects and
understand where we can put funding moving forward. I just want to calm those
concerns, because I know that they have been voiced to me and there is no intention,
both by the Community Development Department or the City Council, to have any
negative effects on the community as it stands. Other general FAQs. How much
money are you giving to this area. That's TBD or to be determined on every year we --
we receive a grant and some of that grant money goes to different places, depending on
the priorities in the community and the priorities that we see from the residents and also
with City Council. So, how much money is coming every year? We have no idea. How
much money can go to this area? We have no idea. But we want to start that
conversation and say, well, there might be some money, so let's see what we might do
with it in your area. The next question is what projects are you planning to fund in this
area with this money? Again, to be determined. We have no idea and -- and I know
that -- that doesn't answer a lot of very specific questions, because I received a lot of
questions about is this project eligible, is this not eligible. We just don't know what's
going to happen yet. We haven't had those conversations. This is the first step of a
hundred in terms of determining what needs we can meet, what needs there are period
and how this -- this funding can help make a positive change in the community. As of
now there are -- this plan and this area designation do not propose or commit any funds
to any project to fix any need in this community -- in this particular area of the
community. Those types of conversations will happen with you all as we go forward.
So, with that I think that we will -- we will get the chance to hear from you all, but before
we do so, in order to stay on -- kind of really focused on topic here today, because we
have a lot of people here for a lot of different agenda items -- you can feel free to say
whatever if you want, but, in general, if you have questions or comments about any of
these things that are listed here, let's talk later. We are going to talk later. We are
going to have conversations about how you get grant money for your property or the
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community, any kind of case or property -- specific project ideas, any current needs, any
future ideas, any -- any types of projects in terms of it being eligible. Is this idea
eligible? I don't know. Or anything similar to that. We are going to have conversations
with you all specifically as we move forward. As we go throughout this year and we
engage in more -- more letters, more meetings, I know nobody is really excited about
more letters and more meetings, but we want to -- we want to be able to have a venue
where we can spend more than the limited amount of time that we have here today at
City Council meeting to talk about these things. So, in general, we are talking just about
the proposal to designate the area and have -- and any questions regarding the
opportunity that comes -- are concerns that come based on that action. Anything else
about projects or funding we will talk about as we move forward and I'm always
available to answer those questions as you need. If you have the letter you have my
contact information. But with that I will turn this back around and, Madam Mayor, we
would advise taking any comments from any property -- property owners in the area that
have any comments or questions.
De Weerd: Chris, I will first ask if there is any questions at this point from City Council.
Thank you.
Pope: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, we can start with the names that signed up under the -- the first
area and, then, we will go to the sheet.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. The first on that list was Patricia Yost.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Yost: Patricia Yost. 330 East 3rd Street in Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Patricia, can you pull -- yeah. Either move over or pull it over. Thank you.
Yost: Madam Mayor, City Council, I am really -- I went through what was like a 200
page proposal and it had a lot to do with housing and my understanding in living here,
just knowing that there is -- we have a situation here. We have drugs, alcohol
problems, a lot of children that are without parents. I have held single women's groups.
Work in my church community. This has been an area that has struggled and so I
welcome anything that would benefit people that are in need. So, I have been raised in
poverty. My mom was a single mom with five children. So, I know what it is. But my
concern is will we be adding to that situation? Will this be redeveloping into adding
more housing and -- which does not designate the issues that are already here,
because we have code enforcement. I don't understand why code enforcement doesn't
take care of a lot of these issues as far as the run down part of it, that's -- you know, we
have lived here, we see these homes just -- just go and nobody's taking anything to do
-- we have eight code enforcement here. Officers. Boise has five. So, it's been a --
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kind of a mystery to us as to why this doesn't get taken care of. And, then, what -- this
sounds like it's going to be a long process, so do you get the funding first and we decide
what happens with it and where it goes? Or is the decision first to let us have the
knowledge of what is about to change to us, how our community is going to change.
Another question -- I have quit a few -- would be -- so, we were in that designated area.
We don't have that funding. Just outside of that designated area do they already have
that funding?
De Weerd: Those are all good questions that we will ask Chris to -- to answer at the
end.
Yost: Okay. So --
De Weerd: I guess -- do you have more questions?
Yost: Well, it depends on answers, actually. What I'm here for is information. I did --
thought that this was -- this seems like a pretty big deal. This is our historical area.
This is the heart of Meridian. This has been ignored. Ten Mile out -- it's been
developed. Eagle out has been developed. This has been ignored. I have been here
18 years, I have had businesses in this area and we just -- and we have -- obviously,
you know about the -- whatever neighbors label -- little Tamarack behind us. Another
article blamed boondoggle. Four years of being -- for that project behind us has done
nothing but intrude on all of the neighboring homes and been extremely evasive on -- on
what is going on. So, is that going to be continued? You can understand our
apprehension on that. Like we just are really -- we don't -- we feel like there is a lot of
duplicitous behavior with the city and so we would like answers before and full
knowledge. I understand that's my three minutes.
De Weerd: Chris, I guess -- Patricia has asked some good questions. How is this
different from the CDBG money that is already received and what kind of projects
typically are seen in other communities that have these designations? Maybe we will
start with that.
Pope: Well, Madam Mayor, Ms. Yost, this is the exact same thing that we use with our
other CDBG funds, which if you're not familiar with, we receive an annual grant and we
have an annual application cycle. Those funds, in terms of what might be available for
projects in this area, are rarely more than 200,000 dollars a year if that. So, the -- the
idea of being able to afford or subsidize housing in any way, shape or form in the area is
just simply outside the bounds of the budget, let alone outside the bounds of priorities
and a lot of what we are focusing on here is public facilities and infrastructure. As was
noted, the number one need is sidewalks according to our assessment. We will talk
with you more later on about whether you agree with that or not and see what we can
do. But each year there is -- there is a small amount of money that we can put into the
community and it almost certainly won't go to housing and in addition to that there are
some areas that are around downtown, to answer your question, that do -- are eligible
for these funds based on the income requirements of those areas and this area
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specifically, mostly due to the industrial portion of this designated area, do not meet
those income requirements, which is why they are not eligible currently. In terms of
other cities and what they do, a lot of it really is focused on -- on being able to target
public infrastructure and facility improvements outside of the area that's already
inherently eligible for CDBG funding. As it was noted, any project that looks at getting --
or at -- supporting change in a positive direction away from any of these criteria that
have been listed in terms of being substandard, are eligible. Housing projects are
generally very rarely used, mostly due to costs, but also it's just not -- not a thing that I
think is going to be what we pursue. And, again, we will have conversations more
specifically with the property owners about what you want to see and where you want
the money to go and where you don't want it to go and how much money there is even,
but a lot of that is still to be determined and we only know on a cyclical basis whether
we even have money to utilize in the area.
De Weerd: So, this is the initial step to determine the area to see if funding can be
available, what it would -- how much it would be and, then, work with the -- the qualified
property owners on, what improvements they see as a need and to prioritize that.
Pope: Madam Mayor, absolutely.
Yost: Would it change our Old Town --
De Weerd: I'm sorry. Ms. Yost.
Yost: Would it change our Old Town status? We are OT. Old Town. Would that
change that?
De Weerd: No.
Yost: We would stay grandfathered into the situation we are now? Okay.
Pope: No zoning or land use changing at all. And I'm pretty confident in saying that
won't happen any time in the future either. At least with these funds. I can speak to this
program at least.
Yost: Thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles Al Fleming was next on the list.
De Weerd: Okay. Sir, in order to even say that we need you on the record. But we did
get the hint. You would like to talk to Mr. Pope off the record. If you will state your
name, first, for the record.
Fleming: My name is Alan Fleming. I live at 310 East 3rd Street.
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De Weerd: Yes. If you will restate your name and address.
Fleming: Okay. My name is Alan Fleming. I live at 310 East 3rd Street here in
Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Fleming: The comment I formally made, Mr. Pope addressed most of my questions and
concerns that I had relative to the scope of this meeting. However, my concern is
focused more on the implementation once funding is granted and how that will relate to
the actions on the part of the Planning and Zoning board and that's my only comment.
So, I would like -- I would like to communicate with Mr. Pope offline and we will discuss
those issues.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Fleming.
Fleming: Thank you.
Coles: Teresa Dominick is next on the list. John Dominick. That was all that was
signed up, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: And no sign-ups on the other sheet?
Coles: Madam Mayor, there was -- we did not create an additional --
De Weerd: Oh. Okay.
Coles: -- sign -in sheet for the --
De Weerd: Is there any other of our downtown property owners or residents that would
like to make comment on this? Please. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please,
state your name and address for the record.
Wilshire: My name is Benjamin Wilshire. I'm on 7th here in downtown Meridian. I also
work downtown here for a local manufacturer. I had three questions. I'm coming from
the perspective of working, as opposed to residing in these development areas that
have been proposed. Assuming that this is approved, what are we looking at in terms
of, first, eminent domain, things that may come into play there as far as the
redevelopment goes. Number two, when the assessments were made, the survey that
was mentioned in the presentation, did we have anyone that was an architect, a
structural engineer or a credentialed building inspector involved in that process? And,
then, my last question was in terms of infrastructure. We have heard quite a bit as far
as the planned light -- streetlights, sidewalks that sort of thing. Is there any other
infrastructure developments that we are looking at as far as new phone lines, high
speed internet, things like that? New cabling and whatnot as far as that stuff goes?
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Something that would actually require connecting to different structures in the area?
Thank you.
De Weerd: Excellent questions. Chris.
Pope: Madam Mayor. Mr. Wilshire, I can't specifically speak to the eminent domain
question. That is with -- far out of my responsibility or authority with this program or with
these funds. I generally understand that it's a pretty unpopular route to go in local
government as it is, so I wouldn't think so. I will leave that up to Council to make
comment there. In terms of qualified individuals who help participate, we -- we
consulted with an engineering firm who do these assessments regularly throughout the
area -- the region really and they had a staff of at least three engineers on site. We also
have our planning division manager Caleb Hood, who is also authorized to interpret and
enforce code as needed. So, yes, there were some people out there who were -- who
were definitely qualified to do that and if you look at the report you will see that there
isn't a huge focus on structural issues that we see, but we did have people out there.
That is a requirement of the federal mandates for this type of thing. So, we have to
make sure that was there. In terms of new infrastructure, this is all part of the
conversation. We don't have a clue what we want to talk about, what the needs are, but
I can tell you off face value that would technically be considered an eligible project.
Who that affects, how it affects, how much it costs to kind of -- to get on Mr. Fleming's
comment earlier is the implementation side of it that we are just not even close to. We
have to have these conversations about needs and priorities before we can even
explore options. But in terms of eligibility, it wouldn't meet -- and we can have a
conversation offline a little bit more about what you're thinking, what the needs might be
and you will definitely be engaged moving forward and we are hoping to -- this, in one
way or another, becomes a boon and a benefit to residents and professionals in the
area.
Wilshire: Thank you. That was pretty much all I have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Other questions? Yes. In the back. Good evening.
Nesmith: Good evening. John Nesmith. I work at 505 North Main Street. Something
I'm a little bit familiar with, the CDBG funds. We were turned down for a grant for a
fagade improvement because we are in a flood zone. I just didn't know if they had
considered a couple of things that -- putting that under CDBG designation if that
affected the fact that the south side of the railroad tracks is in a flood zone, at least a lot
of the areas are, whether or not you guys consider that or not. And, then, the other
thing I think that we ran into it -- that being under federal jurisdiction or their
requirements that you have to pay Davis Bacon wages and, then, that also made a
difference on the cost of projects and that kind of stuff, if you considered that, too, as
well. So, that's all I have.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: What type of wages? What wages did you say? Excuse me.
Nesmith: Davis Bacon --
De Weerd: Davis Bacon.
Nesmith: -- wages, which is --
De Weerd: Federal wages.
Nesmith: -- anything under federal, then, the price of the projects go up considerably,
so -- and I certainly support if we could put sidewalks in. That whole area needs
sidewalks, curbs, and gutters and that kind of stuff. But just didn't know if it raises the
price on it and, there again, it takes a small grant and I don't know, I just --
De Weerd: A small grant that makes it big.
Nesmith: That makes it --
De Weerd: Yeah.
Nesmith: -- hard to use because the price goes up, so -- and, then, if you consider the
flood zone that's --
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nesmith. Yes, Chris.
Pope: Madam Mayor, if I may. Yeah. There are -- and I don't think this is any surprise
to anybody and I know that Council has given criticism to this in the past, but there are
strings attached. This is a HUD grant, which does take into consideration FEMA's flood
mapping. Projects -- certain projects will be eligible, certain projects won't be,
depending on what they look like. Again, a case specific or property specific thing I
can't really comment on until we kind of get into the planning stages there and -- but
there are -- it is going to cost a little bit more generally speaking because of those labor
requirements and because of those areas -- of this area that are in the flood plain. But
those are things that we work regularly with with other projects that utilize these funds
and we think that it's -- we can get through them, depending on what we are talking
about. All of those kind of eligibility and implication cost factors that we generally got
into today are definitely things we will have conversations about. So, as we talk about
fagade improvements opportunities again, again, we listed it as the second -- the
second largest contributing condition in the area, we have to have those conversations
about, well, what can we do, can we work on facades. The answer is yes. Now, what's
the cost going to be, what do the grants look like, where is it going to be, is it in a flood
plain, all those are kind of case specific things that we can have conversations about
moving forward. But you're absolutely correct, that there are some strings that are
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attached here in terms of meeting federal regulations as we use these funds in this
area.
De Weerd: And in some cases I think these dollars can be used with Ada County
Highway District sidewalk programs that are federal dollars, already having to pay Davis
Bacon wages. They can be leveraged with some of the activities of the Meridian
Development Corporation. In particular they are focused in the flood zone and how they
can reduce the footprint of that. So, there are certain things at play that maybe this can
work in concert with.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Your frustration is not lost with us. If -- ultimately what I hear you say is there is
a federal agency to provide funding to redevelop part of your community that another
federal agency prevents you from redeveloping.
Nesmith: Correct. That's my concern.
Borton: Yeah. You just can't --
Nesmith: The only thing I brought up is is it really helping or -- I don't know. I mean just
as a concern. In other words, somebody who went through a bidding process to do a
facade and, then, when I was dealing with contractors half of them didn't even want to
bid it, because they were dealing with trying to figure out what their labor costs were. It
-- it added a complexity to it that made it -- especially the property owner that just
wanted to improve his property -- it made it kind of a pain, so -- to take advantage of the
funds. Now, I guess if you guys can build sidewalks and infrastructure that -- you know.
And that's -- you know, I'm certainly supportive of it, I'm not against it, and I'm just
wondering if it -- is it designated as an area, does it come with some complexities that
are being thought through. That's all. So --
Pope: Madam Mayor, if I may comment on that. And this may be worth everything or
nothing to you and that's okay. But my job is here to -- to try and reduce that burden on
you. My job is literally here to manage the program and the projects, so that the costs
are low for you, the labor requirements, the scheduling requirements, they are all lower
for you. I do this with other projects throughout the community. I mean as we open this
door, this is something that we are going to be engaged. If you have ideas, you have
projects, there is complexity involved, there are strings attached, but my job is to make
sure that we limit that for the residents. That you can get what you need without any of
the repercussions or those strings and now that's not always easy to do and it really
depends on the project, the more we are talking and what we are talking, but that's my
job and I'm committed to helping how we can, where we can, as we move forward with
this.
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Nesmith: Sure. Makes sense.
De Weerd: Thanks, John.
Nesmith: You bet.
De Weerd: Additional testimony? Okay. Well, thank you to our downtown property
owners and residents for joining us and, Chris, next steps?
Pope: Madam Mayor, at this time I would -- I would advise -- staff would recommend
the approval of the resolution 17-2052, which approves this plan and the area
designation as constituted in that plan, which has been shared with everybody today.
As noted afterwards, this will be submitted to the U.S. Department of Housing and
Urban Development to review and, then, we will move forward with everything we have
talked about today with these conversations, with these meetings, then, actually trying
to see how we can get around that complexity in helping to meet the needs of the
community in this area with the funds we have available.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: To touch on -- I don't think anyone has touched on the -- answering the
eminent domain question. As for myself, I have no interest in ever participating in
eminent domain. The sad case of the gentleman who owned the property that is now
the parking lot of this building is something that came before me and, hopefully, we will
never do something like that again. But with that I move we approved resolution 17-
2052.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Resolution 17-2052. Any
discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I realize that I have no direct benefit from this, but I just wanted to disclose I do
own property within this designation.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anything further? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
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Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you, Chris, and thank you again to the property owners. This is just
the start and so Mr. Pope will be available for further dialogue.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Final Plat for Tree Farm Subdivision No. 3 (H-2107-0162) by M3
Companies, LLC located north of Chinden Blvd, south of the
Phyllis Canal and approximately 1/2 mile east of N. Black Cat
Road
De Weerd: Okay. Under 9-A. This -- this has been requested to continue to January
23rd. I guess I would ask staff at this time if you can tell the cause behind this request.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the applicant requested a continuance
to the January 23rd hearing, because they needed additional time to resolve an
easement issue.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? If none, I would entertain a motion to
continue.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we continue Item 9-13, H-2017-01 -- oh. Excuse me. H-2107? Is
that correct? 2107?
Allen: 0162.
De Weerd: Two zero.
Borton: 2017-0162 to January 23rd, 2018.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue 9-A to January 23rd. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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B. Final Plat Modification for Paramount No. 29 (H-2017-0168) by
Peter Harris Construction Inc. located west of N. Meridian
Road, north of W. Ensenada Drive
Request to modify plat note #14 of Paramount No. 29 to
allow Lot 15, Block 76 take access to N. Borgnine Avenue
instead of the abutting common driveway (Lot 16, Block 76)
De Weerd: Item 9-B is a final plat for H-2017-0168.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the first application before you tonight is
a request for a final plat modification. This site consists of .17 of an acre of land. It's
zoned R-8 and located at 5260 North Borgnine Avenue. This property -- final plat for
this property was approved in 2015. The applicant is requesting approval to modify
Note No. 14 on the Paramount Subdivision numbered 29 recorded plat -- and that's the
highlighted area there -- to allow Lot 15, Block 76, to take access from the abutting
street, which is North Borgnine Avenue, rather than the adjacent common driveway on
Lot 16 along the south boundary of that lot. The UDC requires any property that abuts a
common driveway to take access from the driveway unless the abutting property has
the required minimum street frontage and the property's driveway is located on the
opposite side of the lot away from the common driveway. The applicant has provided
an exhibit as shown that demonstrates how the home is to be oriented on the lot with
the driveway on the opposite side of the lot from the common driveway, consistent with
UDC standards. Solid fencing is restricted from being located along the common
driveway because a five foot landscape buffer does not exist per UDC standards. Staff
is recommending that Lot 15, Block 76 be removed from Plat Note No. 14 per the staff
report. No written testimony was received on this application. Staff is recommending
approval.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? If not, do I have a motion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve 9-B, H-2017-0168.
Milam: Second.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-B. If there is no
discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
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Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
C. Public Hearing for Proposed Impact Fees
Ordinance No. 18-1760: An Ordinance To Amend The
Municipal Code Of The City Of Meridian, County Of Ada,
State Of Idaho, Amending Title 10, Chapter 7, Section
12(E)(2), Meridian City Code, Known As The Meridian
Impact Fee Ordinance Fee Schedule; To Provide For An
Amendment To The Police, Fire, And Parks And Recreation
Impact Fee Schedules; And Providing An Effective Date.
De Weerd: Item 9-C is a public hearing for proposed impact fees. Is this -- following
three hearings on Ordinance 18-1760. Mr. Nary, who is presenting this?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I thought there was someone from the --
from the committee. Oh, there he is.
De Weerd: Oh. Matt.
Nary: Didn't see him in the crowd.
Adams: Thanks for having us.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Adams: I think C.Jay is putting our presentation up. Again, thank you. Matthew
Adams. I reside at 1273 East Legacy View Drive in Meridian and I am the spokesman
or the representative for the Meridian City Impact Fee Committee. So, it's not just me,
there is a group of us that works with city staff to educate ourselves, learn about the
needs of parks, fire and police and, then, to review the work done by staff or consultants
on impact fee recommendations and, then, we make a recommendation to Council on
how to proceed, so -- and I don't know if I can ask a question -- I don't know how much
time I'm given to present.
De Weerd: We usually -- I don't know.
Bernt: Less than an hour.
Adams: Well, I --
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De Weerd: I think everyone behind you would like you to keep it short.
Adams: I think I need five minutes. Okay. So, the first thing I would like us to talk
about is what is an impact fee and more importantly maybe what is not an impact fee.
Impact fees are utilized in the state of Idaho and in the City of Meridian for fire, parks
and police departments to collect revenue from future development, a building permit
process, to construct new facilities for areas of growth. An example of what that might
be would be a fire department or a fire station, possibly park land purchase or park
construction and, then, police substation construction, things that are not impact fee
eligible or not -- impact fees are not used for very specifically at schools, water, sewer
and very important is the -- the ongoing operations of these facilities are not paid for by
impact fees. It's simply the construction of new facilities needed for new growth and the
state statutes and the ordinance are very specific that if you build a facility -- let's say
you build a fire station and ten percent of the response area is existing development,
you're only 90 percent impact fee eligible. So, impact fees do not pay for facilities that
provide services to existing residents. So, important distinction to make as we talk
about this. Really, what I'm here to do is make a proposal that the Council accept the
2014 impact fee recommendation. So, if we go back to 2014, the city hired a consultant
to do a study. That consultant came up with recommended impact fees based on the
needs it understood was necessary for parks, fire, and police as determined by the city's
parks, fire, police professionals. So, they determined what capital improvements
needed to be made. They looked at future growth projections and, then, made a
recommendation on fees that should be collected. The Council at that time went
through the process of reviewing that information, hearing public testimony, and the
Council determined that they would accept a slightly reduced fee. So, on the screen
what you see now is the comparison of the fees that were actually adopted in 2014
versus the proposed impact fee from 2014 and I was part of that committee that we
recommended adoption of the full recommended fee and just to put them up side by
side. Okay. So, what we wanted to ask today is that starting in 2018 and after this
hearing if this is accepted, that the Council -- or that the city would receive the full 2014
recommended fee. So, what does that mean? So, if we would have been receiving the
full 2014 fees since 2014, we would have collected an additional 2.7 -- just under 2.7
million dollars and that's a lot of money and what the impact of not collecting that has
been has really delayed improvements for the city. Parks, fire, and police will construct
facilities over time and they -- especially fire and police, they will need to build facilities
to have proper response time and service to the community. Not collecting these fees
has resulted in a delay to some of this construction, which has increased the cost to the
city. So, there is a negative impact from that. One other negative impact, if we were to
accept the fees that our committee truly understands, is that this is a cost on people
who buy new property and it is a cost on the building community and the development
community and we are not -- we are not ignorant of that fact and we know that's an
important thing. After many discussions and meeting quarterly over the last four years,
our committee feels that it's really more appropriate for new growth to pay for these new
facilities and if new growth does not, that burden or that 2.7 million is shifted onto the
existing residents of the community. So, I think, really, what we want to leave you with
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is that any inaction on this now is really a delay in your ability to meet the demands of
growth and will certainly add cost to construction of new facilities as moving forward.
De Weerd: Thank you, Matthew.
Adams: That was it.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I am curious where we sit on our impact fee funds presently. There is Finance.
A lot of people in the room.
Adams: I'm going to hang out, so I avoid the awkward back and forth.
De Weerd: That's a --
Palmer: So, you have the awkward hang out and wait.
De Weerd: Generally following the city's policy, we save before we spend, and so we
should have some in there in particular, since we will be building Fire Station No. 6.
These funds are most likely already committed. Not spent. Mr. Lavoie.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, the question is what's our current fund
balance for the impact fees. So, this is unaudited as of 9/30/2017, which is a couple
months ago. Your parks department has a little over 4.5 million available in its fund
balance, but as the Mayor stated, most of that's already accounted for for future
projects. The fire department has a little over 392,000. And, then, your police
department has a little over 1.1 million.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: There was mention of projects that have been delayed. I understand, you
know, for example, with the south Meridian park that's about to be built, it's going to be
built in phases due to a lack of funds. Are there some examples with fire and police of
projects that we would build now if we had that 2.7, 1 think you said, million? Had we
accepted this in 2014.
Adams: Councilman Palmer, Mayor, I do. From our meetings with the department
heads and the fire chief and police chief it's my understanding that the fire station
specifically could have gotten off the ground earlier if we would have had full collection
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of the fees. I don't know -- I'm not part of that consultant team or that development, so
-- in the planning stages, so I don't know the exact answer to that. But I do know that
since we enacted these fees, the cost of construction has gone up dramatically, which
affects the city and the development community. So, we are all trying to grapple with
how to deal with that and delaying cost -- or delaying the collection of fees will certainly
delay the ability to start projects. But I don't know if there is a specific fire station that
was delayed and by how long.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? Station 6 was mentioned. How much impact fee dollars are
being used for the construction of Station 6?
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, we plan to use one hundred percent of the
construction cost needs for the development of Station 6 out of the impact fees, as long
as we have enough in the impact fees. Again, we have not finalized the final
architectural design and construction costs, but right now our full intention is to use the
impact fees to pay for that structure. If we do not have the fees, then, we will be coming
back to you for General Fund property tax dollars.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor -- I'm guilty. Madam Mayor, Council, Councilman Palmer, to
give you an idea of where we are at, when we built the CIP that applied these impact
fees back in 2014, cost per square foot was 250 dollars. Today the low end cost that
we are getting from our architects is 350 dollars per square foot. We have budgeted
three and a half million dollars for this fire station. That is up considerably from the 2.2.
we spent on Fire Station 5. So, as you can see the cost of doing business and the cost
of materials, along with the current times of construction, are going up. So, we are
hoping that our current impact fee collection is going to cover that cost, including the
purchase of the fire engine and the reimbursement to the fire district commissioners for
Station 5. Certainly if we would have done the full cost recovery we would have been
sitting better. What it's going to boil down to if we don't have enough funding for the fire
station is simply cutting things that we would like to put in the fire station. We have
discussed this in the past, the community room slash training room that we have
discussed as a -- as a nice amenity for the community in south Meridian, we may have
to cut that just to get our cost contained within the budget we have through impact fee
collection. Hopefully that answered your question.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I'm also curious if there is anything from police that has been delayed or that --
that we have needed that we haven't gotten due to a lack of impact fees.
Stokes: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I don't have any specifics on what is slated
for the impact fees for the police department. It's my understanding it's pretty limited
scope what we can use those monies for, like buildings. So, potentially, future
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substations. But I have not had this conversation with the chief. So, I don't know what
is in the works, if anything, at this point.
De Weerd: I think that substations have not been delayed, it's just been more in looking
at partnering with other assets, be bit it the park or the fire substations and leveraging
those efforts. Any other questions from Council?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Ms. Milam.
Milam: Do you have a -- this is not a Todd question. Sorry. A slide that shows where
we stand communitywide compared to other cities with our impact fees in the valley?
Adams: Council Member, Mayor, I do not have that slide right now, but -- and I don't
know if Todd might have anecdotal information on that.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, we do not have a slide prepared for you
tonight, but we have the data available and we would be happy to provide it to you after
this meeting. Again, something we do track on an annual basis for you.
Milam: And as I recall, it was -- we were toward the low end.
Lavoie: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, you are correct. Of the cities that we
compare ourselves to, we were on the lower end if you compare dollar for dollar.
De Weerd: Okay. Other questions from Council?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Question. In your -- in your committee was the vote -- or was your support
unanimous for this -- for this resolution?
Adams: Yeah. Mayor and Councilman Trent -- Bernt, we reached consensus and it
was not easy and it didn't happen right away. I think it took -- it really was those 12 to
16 meetings. Let me back up a little bit. When we made the recognition for the full
proposal in 2014 and Council did not accept it, we met as a group and we really wanted
to understand why and wanted to -- I guess do a better job of making a
recommendation that we felt the Council could follow. So, we have done a lot of
meetings with parks, fire, police and the development community. We met with the
BCA. We met and understood what it takes to permit and entitle a project, all these
kinds of different things, and after that process we did reach a unanimous consensus to
move forward with this recommendation.
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De Weerd: And that did come out of Council's suggestion is to meet more frequently to
-- to seek to have a better base of knowledge and it's been action packed. Thank you.
Any other questions from Council?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I got another one. Do we have any statistical data about -- I guess -- how
many people live -- the average number of people that live in a multi -family residential
unit compared to a single family home? I know there is range in sizes, but -- does the
question make any sense? Is the average number of people to live in a single family
home the same as the average number of people that live in a multi -family residential
unit?
Siddoway: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Steve.
Siddoway: I see confused looks and for good reason. I have been trying to look into
that question and I will give you the best answer I can, but the -- the true answer is -- is
still eluding me, but here is what I have found so far. The 2010 census breaks down
populations per household for ownership versus renters. Now renters will include both
multi -family and rented single family. So, we need to be up front and clear about that.
The 2010 census had the owners owned residences at 2.95 persons per household and
the rented at 2.97. So, basically, the same. Slightly higher. There are some more
recent ones that are through -- not the census, but the new version called the ACS, the
American Community Survey -- is that correct, Caleb? Where they do -- instead of a full
census, a two to three percent random sample survey of a community. They published
a 2016 five year average of ownership at 2.85 and rented at 2.72. There is a 2016 one
year that has a little more differentiation as ownership at 3.02 and rented at 2.31, but
whether or not that's a one year anomaly it's hard to say, which is why they also give
you the five year average, which is much closer. So, that's the numbers I have.
Palmer: That's great. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve. Other questions? Thank you, Todd. Thank you,
Matthew.
Adams: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Mr. Clerk, do we have people signed up?
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I have a full sheet of sign-ups here. However,
looking over this list, I think a lot of them are actually intended for the following item, but
I will read their names to see if they intended for this item.
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De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: I do see Dave Yorgason on this list in favor, but not wishing to -- to testify. Is
that --
De Weerd: Hello, Mr. Yorgason. Thank you for joining us.
Yorgason: Good evening.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Yorgason: You're welcome. Dave Yorgason. The address is 14254 West Battenberg
Drive, Boise, Idaho. Here on behalf of the Building Contractors Association. I know a
lot of knowledge about impact fees for a lot of reasons. One of which is I am -- your
sister city next door for several years served on their development impact fee advisory
committee and so I'm very familiar with process and very similar with a lot of parts of
how complex this could be and I'm so grateful to hear the numbers that Steve Siddoway
just shared, because I would highly advise you to not get too complicated in splitting up
your impact fees based on number of units or size of units or types of units. The city of
Boise is house to house to house and actually look at it from square footage differences
and they have different census data and it just was really complicated at the end of the
day. But that's what that council chose to do and so that council wanted to get that level
of detail. I would not advise you to go there for lots of reasons, including to the fee
payer and based on the numbers I heard tonight you don't need to. Also I would like to
say I want to thank those who came to the BCA who did speak to us. These gentlemen
here spake -- spoke to us. I'm not sure the fire -- fire, yes, parks, yes. Police had a
representative there and thank them for coming, as well as the gentleman that spoke
here on behalf of the committee. I would not say there is consensus. I do know one
member who is on the committee who has told me personally and he represents the
building community, that he did not support this full increase and the reason why is
there is a couple of clarifications, one which is multi -family and also if you split out
parks, police, fire, should full increase be appropriate. The other question that's
hanging out there, the elephant in the room, is a new CIP is probably coming -- a new
capital improvements plan is probably coming by the city in a couple years. It is
typically the cities do these every five years. So, the question is is the city prepared to
and want to raise these fees today and, then, in two years from now do it again. The
building community is concerned with that, especially since some have maybe made
some financial decisions based on baseline information and, then, one increase is one
thing, but two increases within a short period of time is -- is concerning. I can tell you
tonight that the BCA has not had the chance to make a formal position statement,
because our board meets on Thursday and due to the timing of the fact that our
December, Christmas holidays, whatever, we did not have a meeting in between of
when this notice came out. So, I apologize I do not have a formal position for you
tonight. If you want to wait for a formal decision I can get that to you after Thursday
night's meeting, but I can just share with you some of the general comments and
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concerns of which I just shared with you tonight. We also would like to add one more --
or I would like to add one -- a personal comment and that is this: We all recognize costs
are going up. We try to partner with the city and I think you will find us as an
association supporting fee increases, but as you recognize sometimes that we may
come out with unopposed, there is a strategic reason for that as we sympathize with the
position the city is in trying to meet the needs of maintaining levels of service. Last
comment is I appreciate the comment by the fire chief. Maintaining level of service is --
is a hard thing to categorize. There is lots of different parts and pieces to what existing
levels of service is and that includes not only fire stations, but also within your parks and
so I support your efforts here. But I highly encourage you to maintain level of service
and not add to community centers or those types of desirable amenities to be upon the
backs of new construction. Those are my comments. I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Dave. And I think you know that impact fees cannot improve
the level of service and our impact fee is very cognizant of that.
Yorgason: Thank you for that comment.
De Weerd: Any questions for Mr. Yorgason? Okay. Thank you.
Yorgason: Thank you.
Coles: Donna Smith signed up on this sign -in sheet. And Fred Smith. Andy Roman?
De Weerd: That's fine. Thank you for that. We will add you to the other sheet.
Coles: Miiah Brown.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for joining us.
Brown: Good evening. Just second here. Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: If you have handouts you can give it to our clerk.
Brown: There we go.
De Weerd: Okay.
Brown: Madam Mayor, City Council, my name is Miiah Brown. My address is 12064
West Fiddler Drive and that's in Boise. I'm 1.1 miles away from Meridian and I consider
myself to be a step citizen of the city, considering my son goes to school in the Meridian
Joint School District and we spend 95 percent of our time in Meridian parks and
everything else. So, I want to apologize that I don't have as well of a presentation as
Matthew Adams. I only found out about this meeting on Sunday when I was looking up
for the town hall meeting that's going to be for the bond and levy elections. So, what
you have in front of you is what I came up this morning. So, for Idaho growth, you guys
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probably know Idaho is now the fastest growing state in the nation. We are a 2.2
percent growth as of last year. We are -- two-thirds of our newcomers are expected to
settle in urban areas, primarily Ada, Canyon and Kootenai counties. In 2006 Ada and
Canyon county grew in population by 15,173 citizens and this is a percentage growth of
2.4 percent and 2.2 percent respectively. So, that basically means that Ada county is
higher than the state average for growth. The median price for Ada county homes as of
August last year reached 278,000. Now that is -- that is new homes and old homes.
So, new homes are, obviously, generally more expensive than older homes, so that
could be slightly larger. I don't have that exact number. And the map you will see on
the bottom right of that first page is lots that are approved to have homes built on them.
The last figures I have that currently there is 14,582 lots. In -- in the West Ada School
District area that's on this map there is another 2,700 in the bottom right-hand corner
that are kind of Meridian -Boise area. So, the -- as far as for the current proposal for the
impact fee rates, you will see that there is a lot of growth and it's kind of scattered all
over Ada county and personally I'm a firm believer in impact fees for these new
structures. I love our parks. I know that Mayor de Weerd works really hard to try and
give us a lot of fun places for our kids to play. I go to Settlers to watch movies during
the summer and as far as for police and the fire department, I hope to never need them,
like most citizens, but the closer they are to our houses I feel the better response time
they will have and the better off we will be. But I hope with this other information that I
want to give you it's a little bit more enlightening for what we need to look at for the
future of impact fees. Now, I understand that Idaho state law does not allow fees for
public schools or libraries. In fact, there are only about 12 states that are for schools
and 13 states that do allow impact fees for libraries, but some things to kind of consider
as we start moving forward is maybe talking to state department and legislature about
looking into this, because over the next -- we are basically growing at a thousand
students a year in the school district. West Ada School District will never break up. We
can't afford to, because with all of the different tax rates that are going on. So, I guess
my time is up. So, if you guys could just look over that. If you have any questions my
card is on there and I would be happy to answer them for you. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you so much, Mr. Brown. Council, any questions? Thank you.
Coles: Next on the list was Larry Eastman. Terry Glassinge. Julie Jim. Al and Shelley
Fleming. Tony Brownlee. Jennifer Blackwelder. Annette Alonso. And you're signed up
against this particular item; is that correct? Very good. Tony Alonso signed up against,
not wishing to testify. David Kline. Wendy McKinney. That was all the sign-ups.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this?
Weedon: Madam Mayor de Weerd, Members of the Council, my name is Seldon
Weedon and I live on Easy Jet --
De Weerd: Seldon, can you pull that closer to your -- thank you.
Weedon: Is that good?
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De Weerd: Yes.
Weedon: Thank you.
De Weerd: Much better.
Weedon: In September there was a report of a house fire down the street from me
about a half block. So, naturally, I drifted down, being curious to see what was going
on. Could not believe how long it took the fire department to get there and I noticed the
first engine to arrive wasn't the engine from Station 4 that was a half a block away.
Apparently they were busy somewhere else. In October I'm out at the park watching a
playoff softball game and the guy sitting beside me, through no fault of my own, appears
to be having a heart attack. Get on the phone, dial 911, report it. It took 20 minutes to
get an ambulance and an engine to the scene of that heart attack and I couldn't believe
how long it took. Of course, we were giving him first aid. There was an AED on the
scene, but he was okay. The house fire turned out to be okay, too. It was -- it ended
up being insignificant. But that registers. I am a member of the impact fee committee,
but I'm not speaking for them, I'm speaking as a taxpayer on Easy Jet. I was sitting at
the light -- in fact, I was sitting through three lights trying to get off of the interstate onto
Eagle Road the other today and Eagle Road is gridlocked and it occurs to me that in my
first 30 years being around -- I was in the metro DC area and the place -- the growth
rate was absolutely unbelievable. So bad I moved west and I'm out here in Idaho now,
but I can't -- I fear that what we are encountering here in Idaho is -- is what we
encountered in the early '80s, late 70s in the metro DC area where more than just
congress is gridlocked. The freaking highways are -- so, I certainly support the -- the
impact fee increase that was proposed to you. I think it's a small way that Council can
help keep our cost to the taxpayer that lives in Meridian down and I know -- I speak for a
lot of taxpayers when I say we appreciate that. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Weedon: Any questions?
De Weerd: No. Any additional testimony? Okay. Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just some -- some historical context to the request. The way that I view this --
this isn't necessarily, one, asking for an impact fee increase, so much as -- what I
understood Mr. Adams and the committee asking for is -- is trying to recapture impact
fees that -- that could have been collected back in 2014, but the Council made a
decision at that time to -- to gradually impose those upon development and I think the
minutes in 2014 reflect that discussion. It wasn't so much a concern that the
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methodology upon which the fee was based was -- was something to question, but it
was a big change and it had been -- not been changed in a while, so the discussion in
2014 was rolled out in pieces. It seemed to me that the conversation contemplated this
very discussion. So, that's just one comment at least that I think is important to
consider. As to the comment on -- on the impact fee and what it's based on and what it
is allocated towards, if we accept the premise that growth is to pay for itself, the impact
fee analysis done back then -- there is a 112 page study and it includes the capital
improvements for police, fire, and parks of the buildings and the park land and the
specifics that we all plan to develop as Meridian grows and, then, that study takes a
portion of each of those -- sometimes it's zero, sometimes it's more, that is growth
related. So, every dollar that's in our capital improvement fund today is allocated and
every dollar that's collected is allocated towards those capital improvements in our
existing capital improvement plan. Nothing is undesignated necessarily now or going
forward. I think the comment -- this last comment from the public, which speaks to who
is to pay for growth, is a really good one that -- that we really have to consider when we
make those decisions to forego the ability to capture the cost of capital improvements
with new growth, we are at the same time making the decision that we would rather
have our existing taxpayers pay for that growth caused by additional growth to our
community and that's a -- that's a pretty big decision to make. So, I think that's another
important consideration. So, I thought this -- returning to this level was what was -- was
contemplated. The listed items within the existing capital improvement plan -- I didn't
see question raised in 2014 as to those and I don't see question raised to them now, so
the methodology still seems to be as valid as it was then, which, then, would imply if
those costs are valid and the costs are created by new growth, that if we agree with that
question that the premise that new growth is to pay for itself, then, it would necessitate
the first time capturing the full cost of that growth. So, I'm always open to hear different
viewpoints or other critiques of the methodology perhaps, but I haven't heard it. I know
the BCA -- where is Mr. Yorgason? He might have left. So, the BCA -- I think their
input is always valuable and appreciated. If it necessitates waiting a week to get
anything more from them, I don't have a problem with that. At least that's where I --
where I saw us take action in 2014 leading to today. The change as of now seemed to
be appropriate to me.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Borton. Any other comments from Council?
Borton: And Madam Mayor? I will make one more. I detest impact fees, because it is a
cost put on -- on new construction and new homeowners, but part of the problem is
created by us in a sense, because the size of an impact is somewhat proportional to the
growth of the community and when a community grows extremely fast it has to try and
recapture all those capital costs by the new growth and that number is really big. Well,
it's because we are growing really quick. So, it is somewhat proportional to the -- to the
pace at which we approve new projects and if there is a new CIP to be done in a couple
of years in the normal course, the fee very well may go down. It doesn't necessarily
have to go up. It's -- it's a byproduct of what the capital improvement plan is anyway,
which we don't know until that -- that happens, so -- last editorial comment.
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De Weerd: Thank you for your editorial. Any other comments or questions, direction?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: If there is no other questions or comments, I will chime in real briefly. One, I
want to thank the committee for bringing this back to us. I appreciate having the
opportunity to revisit the discussion that 1, for one, had to take on as a very green and
very naive new city council member and to have the opportunity to revisit this now the
discussion has been very appreciated. I appreciate the feedback from the citizens on
this as well. 1, for one, have to say I agree with the methodology behind the study. We
as a council made a decision to take less for a wide variety of reasons and to Council
Member Borton's comments, it was very much contemplated this would be reviewed
and readjusted if needed and I think that's what we are here to do today. So, 1, for one,
don't need to wait a week to hear from an official comment for the BCA. I think Mr.
Yorgason did a substantial job of conveying what he believes to be the opinion of his
organization and if there aren't any other comments or questions, I'd be ready to make a
motion.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other comments from Council?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve ordinance 18-1760.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-C. Any discussion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I understand that Dave was here and had a chance to chime
in, but I think they are an essential partner with the city in helping us understand the --
the thoughts of those who are investing more than anybody in our city and I think it's
important that we give them a chance to meet and be able to present to us an official
position of their board. So, with that I would make it a substitute motion that we
continue this item to February 6th. February 6th, because I would really like to be here
when we make that decision and I will not be here next week and we don't have a
meeting the week after.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a substitute motion. Is there a second?
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Bernt: We need him to second your motion and vote against it.
Borton: I will second your motion.
De Weerd: There is a motion and a second to continue this to February 6th and I would
ask all those in favor say aye.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Cavener: Before we vote a comment if I may. If I recall when we discussed this a
number of months ago, this date was recommended by the BCA. We extended our --
the day that we were going to have this hearing even further to accommodate them.
That's an organization of a considerable means and education and if they are unable to
form a board meeting to get before a city council something that we have noticed
multiple times, to, then, ask us to delay things even further for a trade organization,
something we wouldn't do for an average citizen, I can't in any good form support a
motion.
De Weerd: Okay. I would say those in favor of continuing this, please, indicate by
saying aye. Okay. Those opposed say nay. Okay. The nays have it. We do have an
original motion on the floor to approve Ordinance 18-1760. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Coles: Madam Mayor, before I do that, I believe I need to read the title --
De Weerd: Oh, yes.
Coles: -- for the third reading.
De Weerd: Would you, please, since this is the third reading.
Coles: I would be glad to. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 18-1760, an ordinance to
amend the municipal code of the City of Meridian, county of Ada, state of Idaho,
amending Title 10, Chapter 7, Section 12(E)(2), Meridian City Code, known as the
Meridian impact fee ordinance fee schedule. To provide for an amendment to the
police, fire, and parks and recreation impact fee schedules and providing an effective
date.
De Weerd: This is the third and final reading and we do have a motion to approve
Ordinance 18-1760. If there is no further discussion from Council, Mr. Clerk, will you
call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
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De Weerd: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
D. Public Hearing for Linder Village (H-2017-0088) by Lynx/DMG
Real Estate Parnters, LLC is located at the southeast corner of
N. Linder Road and W. Chinden Blvd. at 1225 W. Chinden Blvd.
Request: Annexation and zoning of 81.61 acres of land from
the RUT zoning district in Ada County to the C -C zoning
district (64.75 acres) and the R-8 zoning district (16.87
acres) in the City;
2. Request: Preliminary Plat consisting of 16 commercial
building lots, 1 residential building lot, 1 common lot and 3
other lots for future right-of-way dedication on 78.29 acres of
land in the proposed C -C and R-8 zoning districts; and,
3. Request: Variance to UDC 11 -3H -4B.2 for two (2) accesses
via W. Chinden Blvd./SH 2O-26.
De Weerd: And thank you to the committee for having several times to stand in front of
us. Okay. Item 9-D is a public hearing H-2017-0088. I know we have had -- I will open
this public hearing. We have had a review of the public record and I will ask Mr. Nary if
he will first discuss that.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Based upon some inquiries
that were received from the public since the public hearing on November 21st of 2017,
regarding this application for Linder Village, we did with the assistance of our IT
department, my department, reviewed all of the incoming e-mails that had come both
through the clerk's office and, then, also through the Mayor's office, the Mayor directly
and the individual departments, as well as the individual council members and trying to
determine if there were other ones that may not have made it into the record and there
was approximately 3,974 e-mails that we reviewed during that process. We found one
that had not made it in the record prior to November 21 st. We have added that one to
the record. We had a couple that were -- that were subsequent to November 21 st that
didn't go through the clerk's office and came through other parts of our IT system.
They have all been added to the record. So, we are comfortable at this juncture that
every e-mail that we could locate within our system that had come to the city under this
project, either under this project number, or this project name, this project location, we
have been able to locate and all of them are included in the public record on our
laserfiche that are available both for the council members who have reviewed prior to
tonight, as well as the public is able to review. We think all of that has been -- been
captured and so we wanted to make sure that was clear on the record, because we did
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have questions from the public on whether we had been able to discern if all of their
comments had made it into the record and we believe they have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nary.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, we received an e-mail from Andrea Carroll, from Carroll Law,
concerned about that the disclosure that I made during our meeting in November,
because I had mentioned that in September I had a conversation with a lady, but I didn't
mention her name and Ms. Carroll wanted to know who that was. That was Sally
Reynolds and was also concerned when I had mentioned that I read in hundreds --
actually, I think my words were many, many, many, many e-mails and was concerned
that some of those e-mails might not have been on the record. Just wanted to clarify
that I never received any e-mails on the topic, to any personally e-mail or any other e-
mail account, other than the City Council e-mail and that every one of those is
accounted for and on the record.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Prior to January 2nd, 2018, 1 was a member of the city's Planning and Zoning
Commission. I was present for and voted on this application when it was presented to
P&Z on October 19, 2017. 1 have reviewed the record in this application and believe
that I can listen and consider all information in the record and make a decision on this
matter before the City Council this evening based upon the entire record of these
proceedings. Additionally, I would like to make note -- I did talk to Sally Reynolds as a
P&Z commissioner after DMG's application was presented, after public testimony was
given, and after we voted as a P&Z commission. Our conversation mostly had to do
with her helping Council Member Cavener and I's city council campaigns. However, I
remember a brief discussion about possible revisions to the developer's application, I
want to make note and I want to be very clear this evening I did not view, nor did we
speak about what those revisions look like. At that time we both agreed that it wouldn't
be a good idea at that time. So, I just wanted to make that clear this evening before we
proceed with these -- before -- with this application.
De Weerd: Okay. And you don't feel that you have a conflict?
Bernt: No conflict.
De Weerd: Okay.
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Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: In the theme of disclosures, I just want to share that since our last public
hearing I, as well as the City Council, received a significant amount of e-mail from our
citizens, both in favor and against. I responded to each of those e-mails as they have
come in thanking them for their feedback and encouraging them to stay in the process.
Have not made a comment in support or opposition to the application, but did respond
to each e-mail that came in.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anything further? Okay. Thank you. So, I will turn this over to
staff.
Allen: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Just a little update. This
project was heard by the City Council on November 21st, 2017. It did come forward
with a recommendation of denial from the Commission. This was based on the
Commission's belief that the proposed conceptual development plan was not consistent
with the Comprehensive Plan, specifically the mixed use community future land use
designation and the applicant's unwillingness at that time to revise the plan as
recommended in the staff report. Prior to the Council meeting in November the
applicant did submit a revised concept plan that addressed some of the issues noted in
a staff report and held a new neighborhood meeting to discuss the changes with
neighbors. The Council continued the project to January 16th, tonight's meeting, in
order to allow the applicant additional time to obtain updated traffic counts and submit
an updated traffic impact study to Ada County Highway District based on revisions to
the plans and get a report from Ada County Highway District. On December 11th staff
met with the applicant and their traffic engineer, ACHD and ITD staff, to discuss
changes to the concept plan and timing of an updated traffic impact study, which they
stated would be six weeks after updated traffic counts were collected. The applicant
states that updated traffic counts have been completed, however, an updated traffic
impact study has not yet been submitted to ACHD for review. Therefore, a staff report
is still not available from ACHD. Staff has included the updated plan submitted by the
applicant. Since the last meeting there has been another set submitted, which I will
show to you tonight here and included conditions of approval in Exhibit B of the staff
report if the Council should decide to move forward with a decision prior to receiving a
staff report from ACHD. Staff has not included a requirement for the expansion of
Chinden Boulevard, State Highway 20-26 to be completed prior to issuance of
certificate of occupancies within the development. If that is the intent of Council, a
development agreement provision should be added accordingly. As shown here this is
the concept plan that was submitted at the previous meeting that Council reviewed.
Since that hearing the applicant, like I said, did submit a revised concept plan as shown
that addresses some of the issues noted in the staff report, comments from the
Commission, City Council, and public testimony. The revised concept plan depicts an
85,000 square foot community grocery store, WinCo, as an anchor for the development.
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It's kind of oriented across the southwest corner of the site. Three mid-size anchors
towards the center of the site, a fuel sales facility along Chinden. Smaller office, retail,
restaurant, live -work uses. A plaza and future office retail development on the east end
of the site. One of the potential mid -anchor buildings may be 50,000 square feet, which
exceeds the 30,000 square foot limitation in the MUC designation, which will require
additional public and quasi -public uses to support the development, commensurate with
the increase in size. Orientation of the rear of the WinCo building has been shifted to
the corner of Linder and a future public street and the mid anchors have been shifted
further to the north away from adjacent residences. A circulation plan was submitted as
shown that shows access to the site via accesses from a new road. The nearest one to
the intersection has been removed that was shown on the previous plan at ACHD's
request and two accesses via Chinden, State Highway 20-26. Traffic signals are
planned at the southernmost access via Linder Road and the eastern access by the
state highway when warranted. Because the UDC prohibits new accesses from a state
highway, a variance is requested for those accesses. There are three local stub streets
to this site from the adjacent residential neighborhood. At the south here you can see in
blue and at the east boundaries of the site that are proposed to be extended with
development. One of those here will provide a fairly short, direct route to the grocery
store here. The others will connect in with the residential development. The plan
depicts pedestrian walkways throughout the development in the kind of orange outline
there. A backage road, a connection to the commercial zoned property at the east
boundary of the site for future connection to Fox Run and the signal. A bus stop and a
future signal on Chinden in alignment with Bergman Way. Cross -access ingress -egress
easement and driveway should be provided to the property at the southwest corner of
the site and that is -- if you can see right here where my pointer is -- in an effort to
decrease access points to Linder Road. So, this is just a revised open space exhibit
and a revised preliminary plat that was submitted that matches the configuration of the
revised concept plan that depicts 16 commercial building lots, one residential building
lot, and one common lot and three other lots for future right of way dedication. The
applicant does intend to resubdivide the lots depicted in future development and smaller
lots in the future. Business hours of operation in the C -C zoning district are limited from
6:00 a.m. to 11:00 p.m. when the property abuts a residential use or district. Extended
hours of operation may be requested through a conditional use permit. The WinCo
store is proposed to operate 24 hours a day. Once the property is subdivided as
proposed, the WinCo lot will not abut a residential use. However, until, then, the
property as a whole does abut residential uses. Concept building elevations were
submitted for the main anchor as shown. The mid anchors, the retail shops, and the
residential area. Non-residential buildings are required to be proportional to and blend
in with adjacent residential buildings. Future buildings are required to be consistent with
the design standards in the architectural standards manual. Really, the only
outstanding issue for Council tonight is to determine if the revisions made to the concept
plan adequately address the concerns from the previous Commission and Council
hearings. Also, if the Council wants to wait for a report to be issued from Ada County
Highway District. And, then, finally, if any -- if Council deems that the associated
improvements to the state highway should be made prior to issuance of any
occupancies within this development. Staff will stand for questions.
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De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this point?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Can one of the options be to send it back to P&Z if we feel necessary?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, certainly.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Sonya, could you go back to the one where WinCo --
how WinCo is situated. I guess I'm not following how it does not abut residential.
Because is it across the road residential?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman, that is across an arterial street, so our code doesn't
require the hours be limited for that reason.
Little Roberts: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Sonya, you said that one of the accesses off of Linder has been removed by
ACHD? That's not an access any longer?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman, no. It has been removed from the plan.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Sonya, just -- I guess get me educated -- we don't have a report from ACHD,
but they have already requested the removal of a -- of an access. Can you just help me
see where the clarity is? If we haven't had a final report from ACHD based on the traffic
study, but they have already requested the removal of an access point.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, Councilman Cavener, we have -- we, along with
ACHD, have met with the applicants at several different points along this process. The
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applicant can probably provide more information than that for me, but from what I
understand they didn't feel it was warranted to have another access and the applicant
agreed to remove it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, maybe one just additional question. Sonya, that -- that
access, the secondary one that's by the rear of the store, if you follow to the future
residential development, there is a red line indicated and when I -- to the left a little
further and -- right there. Yeah. What's the red line supposed to be indicating?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I believe that that is what they have
indicated is the end of the collector street, but the applicant, again, could probably
answer that question. That's what I assume it to be.
Cavener: Great. I will ask them. Thanks, Sonya. I appreciate it.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Maybe the end of that or -- it's right in line with that pathway --
Allen: It may be across Block 2.
Palmer: Yeah.
Allen: Again, the applicant can respond to that.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is nothing further, we will ask the applicant to make
comment.
Howell: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, my name is Ken Howell. I'm a
partner in the law firm of Hawley, Troxell, Ennis & Hawley. My business address is 877
West Main, Boise, Idaho. Mr. Ballard, who had previously been involved in these
proceedings, had to leave for Washington DC for language school for his wife's new
posting as a commerce department employee in Buenos Aires. So, hopefully, he's
going to get well trained in language and won't provoke an international incident while
he's there. So, he asked me to step in for these proceedings tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Howell: Tonight we also -- I will be calling up some additional people to make specific
presentations, primarily Greg Slocum from CSHQA architects to address the specific
changes that were made and I think he will be able to answer some of the questions
that council members have already raised tonight. First, as staff noted, we did have a
previous November 21 meeting on this project. The application was in the rebuttal
portion of that public hearing when it was continued. The continuation was allowed to
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give staff additional time to address the revisions that had been made up to that point
and -- and for the applicant to consider questions and input from the Council, from the
staff and public testimony and we have done that and have presented a new revised
plan to the staff and to Council to this body on January 5. There was also the desire
that we could hopefully seek additional input from ACHD and perhaps advance that ball
further on what their comments were. The traffic study is still in process. The traffic
counts have been completed and show, essentially, no change from the prior traffic
counts that have been completed. Some uses down, some uses up, but overall about
the same. But the traffic study itself is not completed and will not be completed until
about the end of the month or the first part of February and, then, thereafter, we know
that it's at least six weeks for ACHD to process that if they were to issue comments
back to the Council at that time. That decision was known at the time of the November
21 st hearing. There was commentary in the record that they were scheduling meetings
already at that time out into February and it was unlikely that we would get decisions
back anytime soon. There are really four main issues I think that -- that frame the
discussion of the changes that are before you tonight and those were, first, orientation
of the development from less intense commercial uses to more intense uses as you
transitioned away from existing residential uses, consistent with the Comprehensive
Plan and the MUC designation. The adequacy of transition and buffering between
existing residential uses and the project, location and orientation of the WinCo store and
specifically those loading docks and, then, pedestrian and traffic flow concerns and,
then, finally, this issue of access to Chinden via Bergman or access to Highway 20-26.
We do have some constraints that were noted in the record previously. The ACHD,
even though has previously been provided with traffic studies, has declined to take
action specifically on this project until they get a better idea of what's going to happen
here with approval of the project from this body and so we are a little bit in a chicken
and the egg problem on that, although, admittedly, we don't yet have the current traffic
counts and impact study to ACHD. That's in process. ITD has approved the conceptual
design of access to Chinden at Bergman and I will address some of the -- the issues
that were raised in the staff report after Mr. Slocum makes his presentation. So, on -- in
December there was a combined omnibus meeting with the applicant, with ITD, with
ACHD and city staff and as a result of that meeting all of ACHD's concerns listed in its
November 20 correspondence were addressed, except for access to Chinden at
Bergman and we know they object to that and -- but they -- even they note that their
objection is not something that's within their jurisdiction. So, at this time what I'd like to
do is call to present the specific changes to the site Craig Slocum and, then, I will return
afterwards to address kind of finally the impacts of where we are in terms of concerns
that were raised at the last Council meeting for that. Craig.
Slocum: Thanks, Ken. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council Members. Craig
Slocum. 200 North Broad Street, Boise, Idaho. After ten years working on Linder
Village they finally asked me to get up and talk.
De Weerd: And that's about the time you show you can't. Do you have a cold?
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Slocum: What you will see before you right now is -- is really what we have been
working on in the seven weeks since we last presented to this Council and what we --
what we heard from both Council, public, staff is -- there was some difficulty in visioning
what it was we were proposing. Our team has modeled the entire proposed project and
have now inserted that model into a three dimensional aerial that I think helps
understand the project and how it fits into the -- the context of what is the built
environment at that intersection. We have got a second image. This one is, obviously,
facing southeast. The second image is facing northeast. I think it truly depicts the
distances between existing -- the built environment and what this project proposes.
We wanted to address I guess in two parts -- staff, when we last met, still had two points
of -- that we needed to address and they really are tied together. If you can go to the
next slide. As we look at the comp plan and we have dealt with this in Planning and
Zoning and Council, the question was the transition of density and the second item was
the location of the live -work and of the plan as a team I think we have addressed both
those items. I will start with -- I guess the transition of density and if you pull the next
one, we will talk about how we have moved the larger intense user throughout this
process. This plan you see in front of you Council has not seen. It was presented to
P&Z and certainly met with a lot of feedback. You will notice the truck dock actually
faces the residential. The WinCo is -- while it provided three or four hundred feet of
separation from the existing residential, it was closer. If you pull the next slide. This is
what Council saw on November 21st. There was still, obviously, from public and
Council concern about that transition of density and the location of the intense user. We
had flipped the truck docks so it faced Linder, but in our seven weeks since -- if you will
pull up the next slide -- we have shifted that building another 66 feet, approximately, to
the north. What this has provided is additional residential -- proposed residential at the
corner of Arliss and, then, a commercial pad on the south side of the future collector.
We have taken the live -work from -- if you recall was near the intersection of Chinden
and Linder and brought it down to be adjacent to the proposed higher density
residential. So, from the standpoint of transition, we have got existing residential, some
new single family residential, some townhomes and, then, live -work, some retail shops
and then -- and, finally, the more intense use of WinCo. If you go to the next slide. So,
just think from a -- it's tough with an 80 acre site to really understand distances. You
see the -- the truck dock is 577 feet from any existing residential. The building itself to
the corner is almost 350. Additionally, you will notice the -- and this came up at both
P&Z and City Council. We have added some eight foot screen walls at the truck dock, a
small dock area on WinCo and, then, on the landscape berm to the south of WinCo. In
addition, there is probably twice as much landscape buffer between the WinCo delivery
area and the future collector street and, then, there is an additional 73 feet of
landscaping on the south side of that collector street. Then -- if you go to the next one.
This kind of depicts where we have moved the use. If you recall previously the live -
work, which is the lime green, was up in combination with the specialty retail. Now,
there was some concern about that and it kind of solved the concern I think that Council
had, as well as it addressed the transition of density issue that staff had. Next. This is
some of the modeling we did. Again, as we heard from Council and the public, I think
it's hard to maybe picture exactly what we have got in two dimensions. As I mentioned,
we modeled the whole thing. This is the live -work, future townhomes ones behind it.
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Then single family. And, then, the existing residential behind that. Just some of the
amenities as well. I'm sorry. Plaza area. If we go to the next. As we met with ACHD,
one of the things that staff mentioned that you will notice, is that we have relocated the
collector street farther to the north. ACHD felt it was important to line that up with the
existing northern access of the city fire station. Actually, it provided what I believe is a
better plan, some additional landscaping between the property to the south. As I
mentioned before, the opportunity to bring some light commercial adjacent to future
residential and the existing residential. Part of the ACHD comments that were received
just before Council meeting on the 21 st, they -- one of their comments was access from
that collector into the commercial and it's shown on the concept plan. It's a small -- it's a
drive between the live -work and the retail. If you will pull up the next one, which is our --
sorry, I missed this one. This would be the view looking down that collector street that
we have shifted to the north to line up with the fire station and you can see the
extensive landscaping. Berming. You can see the sound wall at the WinCo. It really
shows how -- how much distance and how much separation there is from adjacent
existing properties. If you go to the next slide. It's our circulation plan, which I know
was brought up a lot by Council on the 21 st and staff has mentioned the orange defines
what would be pedestrian circulation throughout the site. It also represents access from
the existing residential and future residents into plaza areas, to the shopping areas, the
future office areas. This also depicts, as I mentioned, the access into the commercial
from the collector street. There is a secondary access that would be provided when the
future office retail development is provided and those were the concerns that both staff
and ACHD had and we believe the revised concept plans address all those. The last
image is -- is just -- there was some expression from a few of the council members that
they were concerned with pedestrian access throughout the site. Our desire is that you
can park one place and walk to everything else that is built there and this is just a
depiction of the size of those landscape and walk areas that we have proposed. This
one just happens to be leading from the northern area down to the WinCo. I have one
more image. This just shows -- to try to I guess express to the Council and to the public
the kind of development that's proposed here. This is the image -- the larger image
shows an outdoor market area, large plaza gathering area for neighborhood events.
Well landscaped median islands. Very walkable. Very pedestrian oriented. That kind
of concludes mine, other than if we -- I got about a 90 second video we would love to
show, but I do want Ken to come up and close it. So, maybe while you potentially play
that, I will have Ken come back.
(Video played.)
Howell: So, that's the summary of the changes that we have made to the site and we
think that these changes were made directly in response to the concerns expressed by
Council at the last public meeting, taking into consideration the constructive criticism
that we received from the public testimony and addressing as many of the staff
concerns and comments as we were able to do on this site and as Mr. Slocum
indicated, we also addressed those portions of the ACHD concerns that we were aware
of based on the meetings that we had and made substantial revisions to the site. I see
my time is rapidly winding down, but I did want to call attention specifically to the
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submittal made in the record by Brian Ballard on January 8th, correspondence that he
issued to Council, and I would recommend to you the chart that starts on page three
that lays out the specific feedback that we heard and received at the last public
meetings and the very specific things that we did in response to that feedback to
address the concerns that were made and to improve the project to meet those
concerns. I won't go over them at this time, but those are in the record and they are
found on page three of Brian's January 8, 2018, correspondence. I'd stand for
questions at this time or certainly at the end of rebuttal.
Borton: Thank you, Mr. Howell. Council, any questions?
Little Roberts: Mr. President?
Borton: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Ken, regarding STARS and WinCo and all of that, has the change in one
anchor, has that impacted that plan at all? Because, obviously, we have got a lot of
concern with traffic on Chinden.
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, no, it has not changed the plan for
STARS at all. On STARS, as was mentioned at the last public meeting -- and,
obviously, you remember that -- we have made an arrangement with ITD on the STARS
program to improve and widen Chinden through this area to four lanes and make some
other improvements. That work is underway. We have retained a contract to do the
preliminary design of that roadway. Once that design is complete it goes to ITD for their
work and there is a meeting currently scheduled for January 26th on that -- those
designs and improvements. So, the STARS project is very much still underway and it's
designed to eliminate as many of the problems on Chinden in that area as we possibly
can.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, thank you. A question for staff about the access being
removed off of Linder. Sonya indicated that was a recommendation from ACHD and the
developer agreed to that. I guess you're the experts. Explain to me why, as a
developer, you're on board with less access into your project.
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, what -- what ACHD was concerned
about was a third access point off of Linder being close -- closer to the intersection with
Highway 20-26. They were concerned about traffic flow in and out. We, in looking at
what the specific concern they had primarily for life and safety, we concluded that we
could have adequate access in off of Linder Road with the two other access points,
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bearing in mind that also part and parcel of this application is the right -in, right -out on
Chinden and the future signalized intersections at Bergman. So, we think with that
combination of access, we would certainly have adequate access to the site without
impinging on the intersection of Linder and 20-26.
Cavener: Thank you. Madam Mayor, additional -- the red lines, as I had mentioned
with staff about and I don't know if that's a question for Craig. And I think he's behind
you. I'm just trying to get a better understanding -- I'm seeing a few of them on your --
your development plan and I'm just trying to get a better understanding of what they
mean.
Slocum: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Cavener, the -- those are depicting a change in
material and color for pedestrian pathways at places where we have got walkways. So,
you will see them throughout the site and the one you specifically asked about at the
collector, it's just a change in material, change in color --
Cavener: Thank you.
Slocum: -- of the walkway.
De Weerd: Any further questions at this point by Council?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Not necessarily a question, just -- I had some praise. At the last meeting we
had just -- without the satellite view around it and I think we were all kind of asking for a
better perception of what was going on here and you brought it. I have never seen such
an extreme shift in presentation materials. So, that was very much appreciated.
Thanks.
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, thank you.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Madam Mayor. Because of that sizable shift, it's my opinion that we remand this
back to Planning and Zoning, so they have the -- they take a look at it. They were the
original body that looked at this -- this application. There has been significant change in
it. I think it would be prudent and wise to have them take a look at it and see what their
thoughts are, whether approval, denial, continue, whatever. That would be my thought.
De Weerd: Any -- any comment to that?
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Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bernt, I appreciate that sentiment and that is
certainly your prerogative as a city council member to make that observation and to vote
that way if you choose to. I think, however, that in this instance the changes that were
made to the site were made as a result primarily of the issues of concerns that were
raised at the City Council meeting, that were raised by the public and we have
addressed those concerns and I think as part of the process of approval, that give and
take is a natural inherent strength of the system and to choose to penalize the
developer for saying, well, now you have made all these changes, let's send you back
and make you start all over again, would tend to discourage those kind of changes and
being responsive to concerns of the Council and community in the future. So, I think
that that -- that would be counterproductive, but I understand your state of concern.
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I certainly -- we can have a difference of opinion. I certainly don't look at it as
penalizing the developer. I look at it as a very prudent decision based upon the City of
Meridian's growth. I believe growth is important. I also believe that smart growth is
even more important. We have a Planning and Zoning Commission for a reason and --
to put a set of eyeballs on these -- on these developments is important and so I hope I
didn't come across as penalizing your project. It was certainly not the case.
Howell: Madam Mayor and Councilman Bernt, no pejorative intent taken whatsoever. I
just think that's the -- from my perspective the net practical effect of that. But I certainly
don't impugn any -- any pejorative intent for that.
Bernt: I understand. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further comments or questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: A couple either for you or for Craig. One is does the inclusion of the live -work
constitute residential and create a CUP problem that didn't otherwise think having a --
the WinCo parcel adjacent to residential? Does that constitute a residential parcel?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, I think I can probably address that and
maybe Craig can chime in. I don't think so, especially given the fact that this is a mixed
use. That's inherent in the concept of mixed use is that you will have commercial and
residential uses adjacent and so that's inherited in mixed use. If -- if that's not the case,
then, mixed use doesn't ever work anywhere.
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Borton: Madam Mayor, the other question is probably for Craig. There was comment
originally about additional open space to account for the mass of the building and where
that's located or how -- how do you balance that?
Slocum: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Borton, the open space plan that we have
submitted, the green is open space -- meets the definition of open space. You will see
there is some extremely large areas. If you consider this as 80 acres. If you just look at
the park plaza area, that is substantial. The green space, as you can see at the top, is
6.38 acres. I believe staff's report indicated we needed 3.59 acres. So, we are almost
double what is required to raise that threshold.
Borton: Madam Mayor? One other question. I don't know who wants to field it, but
there is reference in the record throughout with regards to Chinden -- a couple
questions, actually, and the STARS agreement and one of the things that if it's there I
missed it and for the benefit of the public, too, watching or they are here, can either of
you describe for me the specific improvements to be provided on Chinden Road and the
dates by which those improvements are to be installed and I ask it with specificity. I
couldn't find it and I see the -- the STARS agreement as a totally separate matter, a
vehicle to perhaps fund and reimburse the developer for those improvements, but
ACHD's November 20th letter made reference to it, that there is a lot of unknowns with
that and clearly if there was a necessity to have specific delineated improvements to
Chinden be incorporated as part -- as part of his project to be -- to make it successful,
regardless of whether there is STARS funding, are you able to provide those specifics,
which I, then, would assume would be included in a development agreement?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, the short answer is yes, but it's not me or
Craig, so if I could call up John, who is actually the project engineer that's working on
developing that -- the plan that I mentioned earlier that is going to go to ITD. So, you
want to come up and address that specifically on the --
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Ringert: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, my name is John Ringert. Work for Kittelson and
Associates, 101 South Capital Boulevard, Suite 301, Boise, Idaho. We had an exhibit in
the last presentation to this body -- I don't know if it is still somewhere, but I can put this
up. Okay. I just thought this would make it easier.
Borton: Sure. I will try to find it myself.
Ringert: Yeah. It was deep in the other presentation. Okay. Thank you very much.
So, what you see here is a presentation slide we had from the last -- from the
presentation I gave at the last meeting before it was continued. This shows the
improvements in -- it's kind of a greenish cyan and, then, pink or a pinkish red. The
pinkish red are the only real designational differences, those are along side frontage.
The improvements to the east along Chinden are in there -- are in the -- you know, in
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the cyanish, greenish, and, then, we also have some improvements on Linder south of
the site that are -- that just show what ACHD is already working on and will be done
prior to -- about the same time as this site, if not prior. That's currently -- the current
project. All of this is proposed to be done, essentially, as part of phase one of the
project. So, essentially, we are coming up with -- we are basically in the later stages,
we are in the second version of the concept design with ITD to widen, essentially, from
about halfway between Locust Grove and Meridian through -- through Linder Road and
while Linder Road is already widened right at the intersection -- it's not actually widened
to where it should be, it's been offset and there is some turn lanes missing and some
alignment stuff, so we will be going through -- all the way through to Linder intersection.
That's all planned to be -- to be done as part of the development. I say phase one. I
mean as you -- you saw is a mix -- it's a mixture of retail buildings, most of -- basically
pretty much west of the main drive isle onto Chinden. When that will be done specific to
each building is still to be determined. We haven't seen the conditions -- you know, this
body as well -- as well as ACHD and ITD, we don't know how that's all going to be
worked, whether it's going to be the first building's occupancy or whatever -- or it's
probably going to depend upon some specific improvements and -- and if you only have
one building you probably don't need a signal, for instance, on Chinden right away. So,
the actual timing with respect to -- like the actual date, basically, it's still be -- it's
shooting for opening of the center, but, you know, based on right of way and stuff, some
stuff might shift a little bit, but it's all assumed in what we call the first phase of
development.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, it says widen through Meridian Road and, then, future widening to Locust
Grove.
Ringert: Yeah. So, right now ITD has some design plans started for Eagle Road to
Locust Grove. They have a fairly -- a fairly long process, you know, to go through their
design, so it's going to take them to get -- it's going to take them until 2021 to get their
design and right of way done for that project. So, what we -- what we have in the STAR
agreement is, essentially, of what we call a phase two option where if they get theirs
done, what we -- what we would do is tack on the widening from Locust Grove to
connect the projects, so that we don't have a short section of a thousand feet that isn't
widened on Chinden, because we did the widening in phase one, which got us east of
Meridian, they came in 2021, did the widening to Locust Grove and there is a little -- a
little area in there. But that wouldn't be done until they had their project already to go
and it dovetail in, essentially -- their project would, essentially be to the public
expanded, but they can't expand it due to funding constraints, so we would come in and
expand that project and build that connection at the same time, so that to the public it
would look like it would go from Eagle all the way to our widening east of Meridian
Road.
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Milam: Madam Mayor? So, when you're -- you're using really general terms that this
will be done when opening. Can I have an estimation -- because this really doesn't
solve the traffic problem, except for from Meridian Road to Linder. So, we are still going
to notice a bottleneck from Eagle Road to Meridian Road and so I don't just see that
really being a solution, unless you're really close in your timeline. So, what -- when do
you project opening and getting that roadwork done?
Ringert: I believe we are still projecting like fall of 2019.
Milam: So, for two years we will have --
Ringert: Well, no, that's the part -- the center I don't believe can be -- the center is
going to take that long to get WinCo built. So, this would happen when the center
opened, essentially. I can't control -- I don't know how to push ITD any faster.
Milam: I understand. I'm just trying to make sure that I have the information correct.
Ringert: So, really, what's probably going to happen, Madam Mayor, Councilman, is
this project is going to go through the next year -- roughly a year and a half designing
these improvements and irrespective of whether they are funded through the STAR
agreement -- the STAR agreement is a separate thing, it's just a funding mechanism --
Milam: Sure.
Ringert: -- it's a funding mechanism. So, those improvements will get done. There will
be a lag. There will be -- there will be a time where you will come through Locust Grove
and, then, you will get halfway to Meridian Road and all of a sudden you will open up
and you just waited in Chinden east of Eagle for a while. That's just due to ITD has a
project funded, it's in development, it would be very expensive and troublesome to try to
do that through -- you know, through this project. So, that's why we included that other
little phase, so at least it -- at least we don't have a tiny little bottleneck, this will really --
is really obvious to the public later. I hope -- does that answer your question?
Milam: Thank you.
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, ITD has indicated to us that they think they
have a possibility of moving some funding to allow those improvements to occur
concurrently with development of the site, but I think, as John indicated, you know, we
-- I don't think ether one of us could stand here and absolutely swear to you that that's
going to take place in a particular time frame, simply because we don't control it, but it's
certainly their intent to do that as quickly as they can. They recognize the issues as
much as anybody that's traveled down Chinden Road in the past ten years knows.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any other questions from Council at this point? Okay. Thank
you.
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Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess before we start inviting the public up for testimony, I guess I -- I would
like to make a motion -- when we had this last heard before us I supported sending this
back to Planning and Zoning Commission, but the Council didn't agree at that time and
that's -- that's fine, but I have heard at least a new council member who has felt the way
that I do, so rather than have our public go through the process of testifying and, then,
we making that same motion, I'm at least going to maybe potentially save time and I'm
going to make a motion right now that we remand this back to Planning and Zoning
Commission.
Bernt: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to remand this back to Planning and Zoning
without listening to the citizens who have come here to weigh in and so --
Cavener: I'm aware of that.
De Weerd: Okay. And I do have a motion and a second to continue this or remand it
back to our Planning and Zoning Commission. All those in favor indicate --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Palmer: Are we going to discuss it, the motion?
De Weerd: Usually on -- yes, would you like to have discussion?
Palmer: I would love to.
De Weerd: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, if I may, I think Council Bernt made a good point that we do
have a Planning and Zoning Commission for a reason and what came out of that
meeting was a significant amount of information, which led to some adjustments, which
brought it to Council, understanding their concerns and, then, many adjustments and,
then, some more adjustments since our last meeting. But who is more well versed in
this project at this point than -- than Council? You know, we were elected by those in
the room and those around the city to make these decisions. We do have Planning and
Zoning for a reason, to -- to help prepare projects better to come before us, but it's here,
the citizens are here to -- they have testified before us a few times, I'm looking forward
to hearing from them again tonight, but I know if I was in the audience I would want to
come back as few times more as possible and if we send it back to Planning and Zoning
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it's not going to die, it's going to start over and, eventually, be here again I imagine. So,
I think that we were elected for a reason, to give it an up or down hopefully tonight.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: This is -- this is a really tough one. I feel enough -- a significant amount of
changes have been made, we probably should have remanded this in November. I like
what you have done. I wish -- to you guys I wish this was closer to my house and I
could walk there. This is a very nice project. That doesn't mean it's perfect. So, the
plaza -- I like the idea, the concept, but it's probably just some unused space, so maybe
you could do something a little bit more creative with that, but -- so, there are some
tweaks that need to be made. I think that the way that we have gone about this process
isn't really the right way to do it and our -- our citizens have asked us to send this back.
If this project was brought to P&Z or real close to this the first time, this whole thing
that's happened -- going back and forth and all the neighbors are mad, probably
wouldn't have happened. This is a much, much nicer project than what we first had.
But because of that and because of all the changes after P&Z recommended denial, I
think they need to take another look at it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: My concern is for the citizens that have been waiting here tonight to
testify. Is it possible to leave the motion on hold and hear from them?
De Weerd: No. When a motion is made and seconded and there is no further
discussion, a vote needs to be taken, unless it's withdrawn.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Verification then from legal. Should a motion be made and fail, that motion
can be made again at a later point in time?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, yes.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: With respect to our audience and people who have come here to testify, is there
a way to poll them and find out if they'd rather testify or save their breath. They may not
want to testify and, then, have to do it all over again. They may want to and if that -- if
they want to I'm happy -- more than happy to listen tonight.
De Weerd: I'm certainly not a parliamentarian, but I don't think so, but -- I do have an
active motion on the table. Any further discussion? Motion --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Councilman Cavener sounded like he might have a way out, so to speak. If the
consensus might be to do a remand, if -- if Councilman Cavener wants to withdraw the
motion, withdraw the second, see if the public -- if anybody here, who spent their
evening wishes to provide testimony, it's helpful to us, it could be helpful to the
applicant, with the understanding, though, that it very well might be followed with the
motion to remand it, if that's where this is going. At least that affords you the
opportunity to --
Cavener: Sure.
Borton: -- what Councilwoman Milam is suggesting.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess maybe to answer Council Member Borton's kind of proposal, for me
tonight my goal was to -- again, in November I believe the project changed substantially
and should have went back to Planning and Zoning at that point. It's changed even
more since then. I wanted to give the developer the opportunity to explain to me why
we needed to hear from them tonight. I didn't hear any compelling reason as to why we
shouldn't send this back to P&Z tonight, hence the reason why I wanted to make my
motion. I don't think that -- there may be a compelling reason to come from the public to
vote on this night and I'm -- I'm open to hearing that. I just felt because the project had
changed substantially it warranted being remanded back to P&Z.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, my concern here is that the punting is -- is the -- the wrong
choice in that if they wouldn't have made any changes we would have said, okay, we
are going to back up what Planning and Zoning says, you didn't make any changes that
everyone here was demanding. They made a whole bunch of changes to adhere to
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most everything -- of the concerns and now we are saying because you made all these
changes, because of what everyone was asking for, we are going to send you back
anyway.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: See this sausage making conversation. I don't -- I don't believe at all that this
is -- this is punting. We still have yet to receive a report from ACHD. I, for one, am not
comfortable even approving something without that coming in, despite what we have
heard from the applicant here tonight. Also after, again, reviewing the minutes of the
Planning and Zoning Commission, the developer said they had no intention of making
any changes to this -- to this project and, then, proceeded to make a substantial amount
of changes. Hence the reason to me, I believe, it should go back to the original body.
De Weerd: Just to weigh in, just because I can, this is the public process and the
Council made a decision to move forward that they said these changes were made
because of the public testimony and the comments by Planning and Zoning and
determined to continue to listen and to proceed forward with a public hearing. Usually
the applications that we get at Council are not what we see -- what the Planning and
Zoning Commission sees, again, because that is the -- the process of taking public
comment and responding and many of our developments are different when they come
to City Council and they are even more different when they are voted on with a final
decision by Council. So, you do have that choice and I don't know if it's public fatigue
and who can outlast the next, but I think -- you have information in front of you. If you
do not have the information you need from ACHD, you have yet another choice, send it
back to -- remand it back to Planning and Zoning, continue the public hearing after
receiving testimony, and continuing this for specific information from Ada County
Highway District, so you can make a determination. So, you do have a number of
options and I would like to make good use of our public's time and our applicant's time
as well. So, that said, we have a motion and a second to remand this back to Planning
and Zoning. Those in favor indicate by saying aye. Those opposed say nay. Okay.
Can I get a -- maybe a hand vote. Roll call. Mr. Clerk. I kind of like the hand vote,
though, you know.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Milam.
Milam: I just want to clarify. So, this is to send it back to P&Z without -- without allowing
public testimony tonight.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
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Roll call: Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, nay; Little Roberts, nay;
Bernt, nay.
MOTION FAILED: ONE AYE. FIVE NAYS.
De Weerd: Okay. Now I will open it up for public comment. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Michael Battaglia signed up as neutral, not wishing
to testify.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, I do have a question. We do have a ten minute slot for a -- the
spokesperson, whether it's an HOA or a spokesperson for the neighborhood and, then,
anyone else that would testify gets their three minutes. We won't add them all together
and give you 12, but -- so, maybe we can start this by -- if there is an official
spokesperson and, if not, we will do the three minutes. Good evening. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Reynolds: Good evening, Madam Mayor. My name is Sally Reynolds. I reside at 1166
West Bacall Street in Meridian, Idaho. One quick clarification maybe before you start
my time. And, please, excuse my voice in coming -- it went away and it's just barely
coming back. So, if you can't hear me have me repeat it.
De Weerd: If you will just pull the mic a little closer. There. Thank you.
Reynolds: I am not officially a representative of Paramount Subdivision. Paramount
Subdivision has an HOA, but it is currently controlled by the Brighton Corporation and
the Brighton Corporation has told us that they have decided to take a neutral stance on
this application. As such we have members in Paramount who are on an HOA advisory
board, but with differing opinions in Paramount. I am not going to say that I represent
Paramount. Does that make sense?
Bernt: Makes sense.
Reynolds: Okay. So, I am here representing --
De Weerd: As clear as mud.
Reynolds: Okay. There is some --
De Weerd: I think it's resemblant of what we have been talking about.
Reynolds: Okay. Great. So, I am representing a group of residents called Smart
Group -- or Smart Growth For Meridian and at the same Planning and Zoning meeting
where Linder Village was heard, an application for the eight acres to the south was also
heard. Many residents left after the Planning and Zoning Commission unanimously
decided to recommend denial of Linder Village, but a handful of us stayed after for the
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Linder mixed use application. You see, the developer was asking for a mixture of 113
apartments, 213 parking spaces, along with some commercial pads directly below this.
Due to current overcrowding in schools and the fact that these apartments would bring
the total number of multi -family units in the square mile to almost 700, the residents
asked for a continuance and for the developer to bring back an alternate plan. He was
communicative, responsive and proactive in searching for solutions that would minimize
the impact on our schools and neighborhoods. Within four short weeks he brought back
a different plan that scrapped the apartments and included a preschool, a daycare, and
the dance studio and the 10,000 square foot dance recital hall. We were thrilled. At the
last Planning and Zoning meeting we got up and we gave positive feedback, so that that
application would be approved. So, I would want on the record that we are pro -
development, that we are pro-business, that we do want to see these services come to
our community. Now, on that note does Meridian need a WinCo on this corner? As you
sifted through thousands of e-mails you have probably seen varying opinions.
Personally -- and I know many others who agree with me -- who believe or still believe
the answer is no -- WinCo is a regional grocery store. Residents in north Meridian
already have a Walmart, Fred Meyer, two Albertsons and a Target within one to two
miles of our home. If that isn't convenient I don't know what is. Other people say yes,
as WinCo has proudly counted. In our day and age people want to boil it down to a yes
or no decision, but you know it's not as easy as that. So, I say to myself, well, a lot of
other people want to link up and even though I don't think it might be the right decision,
how can we come together on a compromise for a plan that benefits everyone? As an
Idaho based company could WinCo find a way to bring jobs, services, and tax revenue
to the city, but also be a good neighbor? I would hope so. The residents who are
amenable to WinCo in occupying this space would like to see a couple of things in order
of importance. If WinCo locates here, operating and delivering hours are restricted and
limited between 11:00 and 6:00 p.m. Walgreens on the corner of Linder and McMillan
agreed to do it. Walmart on Ten Mile did it. And both of those stores operate on the
24/7 business model. Number two. And this is a big one for us. City Council work with
ACHD to ensure the connecting roads from the site to Paramount are not an easy
thoroughfare, especially when Chinden and Linder are under construction. All of the
site plans, until this one, limited pass-through traffic from the commercial site to the
residential portion. It is one of the few things the developers and the residents agreed
on. But ACHD pushed for connectivity. Mayor Tammy said at the last hearing one of
the positive aspects of the plan was that, quote, it doesn't connect into the commercial
aspect, which grows greater confidence that the traffic isn't going to inundate one of our
premier subdivisions. Close quote. Number three is the building sizes. They do not fall
in line with the maximum footprint. A variance can be given for WinCo, but there is still
two other stores who exceed the maximum footprint for a mixed use community
subdivision. Number four. Widening Chinden. You have already discussed this, so I'm
not going to add anything into it, except that we are really worried about bottlenecks
going to the east. So, the development on this corner will impact a large number of
Meridian residents who have waited patiently for seven months and we followed the
proper public process to express valid concerns. These concerns were submitted to the
city with factual data and qualitative data. For example, deviations from -- from this plan
and the city's Comprehensive Plan were presented by someone who actually helped
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create the Meridian comprehensive city plan. The number of children in the walk zone
came from West Ada School District numbers. Videos of decibel readings from WinCo
delivery trucks were submitted. Videos of sound from the WinCo Fairview store were
submitted and, then, the liberties and the definitions of the city guidelines and taken by
the developer with respect to timelines, were noted by an attorney. We also submitted
public comments, letters and petitions. As Mr. Cavener has said, this plan has gotten a
little better every time it's gone back to the drawing board, but it's only gone back to the
drawing board when the residents' concerns are brought before the city in a public
hearing and are on the record. We are asking you to put that on the record again. Our
first preference would be for the Council to remand the application back to the P&Z
Commission. The applicant has cited all of the numerous changes and improvements
that have been made to the plan. We appreciate those steps in the right direction.
Given all these changes, the proper channel for this application would be to go back to
P&Z for a full review by the staff, one that takes more than four days, because I noticed
the plan came in last Tuesday and it was ready on Friday, and the recommendation on
this plan from the Planning and Zoning Commission. It is why they exist. They are the
experts in planning and zoning. At the last hearing Mr. Cavener stated, you know,
Madam Mayor, we have heard a lot of correspondence from the citizens and many of
the e-mails that I read I know maybe had referenced something, Madam Mayor, that
you said time and time again and that's that we get one shot to do this right and I
believe in the process that we have with our citizen Planning and Zoning Commission. I
think it's entirely appropriate that we remand it back to them and give them another
opportunity to look at this. We have seen with the application each time a second set of
eyes is placed on it the quality of product improves and I think the applicant has
indicated there is a high demand for this type of product in the area. They are seeking
-- they are hearing from a lot of potential tenants and I think giving them the opportunity
to fine tune this with the P&Z Commission is absolutely appropriate and I think the right
course of action for this Council to take. We wholeheartedly support that. So, what
would this timeline be? And according to our ACHD liaison that I have talked to about
this, she said it's going to be at least be six weeks from when the rumble strips were put
out until she gets a report from Kittelson and Associates. That puts us until the end of
January. She said ACHD turnaround times were two to four weeks. That will put us
about the middle of February, at which time after they have the report they will schedule
the public hearing. After we attend the public hearing, then, they will fine-tune their
reports and, then, they will be able to give those back to the applicant. The applicant
will not receive a final sign off on the plat from ACHD and be able to continue to the final
plat until he -- until they have that sign off from ACHD. So, in essence, a six week or an
eight week going back to P&Z and, then, coming back here, it's -- it's not going to
disadvantage the developer at all. I would also like to point out that the plat we are
looking at here tonight is different than the one given to ACHD and different than the
one printed for Meridian Press on January 12th. Now, if City Council wants to continue
at this level, as Madam Mayor has kind of alluded to, we ask you to provide clear
directions to the applicant on what we -- how you would like to see this plan change and
what modifications need to be made. I would like to end on a personal note. So, let me
state for the record that the following are my sole remarks and not those for Smart
Growth For Meridian. So, many of you don't know me, but I am not a person who likes
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conflicts and like many of you I play many roles, that of wife and mother and daughter
and neighbor and friend and this is not a role that I thought that I would ever be in,
speaking on behalf of other residents. From the beginning of his application, just like
the Council Woman Milam referred to, I wish there would have been open
communication, so it could have been resolved efficiently, because uncertainty breeds
fear and I can definitely attest to the fact that this has divided the city. It's been a strain
on our community and even cost people friendships. From the beginning our group has
been clear on what we would like to see. Our message has not changed. We would
like a true mixed-use community village. It was only after denial by P&Z that the
developer reached out to us. I was excited at the little changes I started to see and
communicated to them -- like the plaza, that if they would come to the last city hearing
and ask for a continuance we would support them in that effort, but if they asked for
approval we would ask for denial, because it showed that they were done making
concessions when they had barely scratched the surface. Since, then, more changes
have been made and that's great. Again, I ask if they are asking for a continuance --
but, again, they said they are not. I wish they were, so I could come here tonight in
support of that. With that, the only question that I have is actually for staff -- if I may.
De Weerd: You can ask it through me and I will ask staff to address.
Reynolds: Okay. So, on the open space -- I know that it's calculated commensurate
with the size of the buildings being increased, so WinCo was already accounted for
when we saw that application last time, but mid anchors, too, and, then, the future retail
development, those both exceed 30,000 square feet. So, excuse me, the -- the
increase in that needs to be increased in the open space amount and so I was
wondering if staff has had time to look at those numbers to make sure that they are right
and to qualify that all of the open space actually counts and, then, it's not the landscape
buffering.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, I -- I guess either Mr. Nary or Sonya --
Nary: It sounds like a calculation question.
De Weerd: Yes. The building sizes conforms to our Comprehensive Plan and our --
our land use designation, as well as the UDC and the evaluation as submitted.
Correct? That was fewer words, but --
Reynolds: Yeah.
De Weerd: Does that represent your --
Reynolds: Yeah. Is the open space right now calculated correctly for that --
De Weerd: Open space and the size of the -- the buildings.
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Reynolds: Well, the size of the building should be right, because that's what she -- they
calculate the open space off of.
De Weerd: Okay.
Reynolds: So --
Allen: Madam Mayor, Council, this is a concept plan that's before you tonight. If -- if
building sizes come forward with actual development that do go beyond those desired in
MUC designated area and do require additional qualified open space, staff will review
those numbers in detail at that time. Right now it's just a concept plan. It appears that
they -- they meet the minimum requirements for that. However, I will concede that it
appears they have counted areas that would not count also. That will be determined at
a later date when more detailed plans come in.
De Weerd: So, those calculations are usually done when they start submitting more
definite plans?
Allen: That's correct, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay.
Reynolds: Okay. Great. And I think we would also like to see some of the open space
not just landscaping along the busy roads and on the out land, but maybe somewhere
where the community can gather just besides that plaza, which was mostly businesses,
so --
De Weerd: Thank you, Sally. Any questions?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Sally, you said the group is Smart Growth. Could you
tell me how many members or how many you represent?
Reynolds: Sure. Probably close to 1,000, so -- and about 700 of those had signed a
petition way back in June, July with these same things that we are requesting.
Approximately 350 of those petitioners were homeowners within Paramount and the
other 300 came from homeowners outside of Paramount. I have given two already ten
minute really long PowerPoint presentations with tons of factual data and I actually
mapped every single one of those 350 homeowners in Paramount. So, you can see
where the distribution and where they are. So, it is in the public testimony if you would
like to see that.
Little Roberts: Follow up?
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De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Little Roberts: You mentioned -- and I apologize if I didn't hear you correctly, but your
group is against connectivity between the residents and the project?
Reynolds: Right. So, in the Meridian Comprehensive Plan usually when there is
residents in a mixed-use community, they do encourage connectivity and we would -- if
it was -- if this was being developed in line with mixed-use community, we would
welcome that connectivity and, ACHD, they also require connectivity and from their site
they are over our neighborhood roads and they are over Linder Road. So, it is to their
benefit to funnel traffic through the neighborhood to keep the arterials more clear. The
unique situation we have with this is that it's not really conforming -- I mean even if you
tried to push WinCo to the side and look at everything else, it's not really going as a
mixed-use community format and so we are saying if it's going to be more of a
commercial area, then, can we, please, limit that with our major concern being Arliss. If
there was just one that we could say, please, don't do, it's Arliss. I can't -- if you look at
the high school traffic, they come out right there and they make a right and they can go
down Arliss and will cut right through to the commercial during their lunch break, in the
mornings, just to get around traffic they will probably come out at this traffic light. So,
our major concern is also for the safety of the children on Arliss, because those frontage
roads -- ACHD, as you will notice, these -- the residential, the applicant had to turn
them, because this is a collector road. Well, Arliss is not technically a collector road.
We have homes facing that road and to us we feel like that would become a collector
road, again, unsafe conditions. So, we are asking for no connectivity.
Little Roberts: Thank you. Follow-up?
De Weerd: Can you tell me which one is Arliss?
Reynolds: Oh, sure. The commercial pad at the south -- that one. That's Arliss right
there.
De Weerd: Okay.
Reynolds: I travel that street regularly at 20 miles an hour. There are parked cars on
either side. Granted the CC&Rs say they are not supposed to be there. It doesn't say
-- that doesn't mean they always are. They are there that if one person comes, the
other person can't pass and I have driven down that street where a little boy has run out
in front of a pickup truck and I'm going 20 miles an hour and I slammed and that is the
closest that I have ever come and as a mother I was just shaking in my car, so grateful
that I did not hit him. I do not know what that would do -- not only to the mother, but to a
high school student who had to live with that for the rest of their life. I know it's fear or
whatever and maybe it will never happen and I hope that it doesn't, but I think that we
can take preventative measures that are smart to limit that and our fear was -- if we go
before ACHD at the public hearing and we say, please, limit this, they are going to say,
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no, we have to go through and we will say -- but the land use is commercial and they
say that's a land use, go talk to City Council. But if we talk to City Council about roads,
it's -- you know, ACHD is -- so, we would really like some cooperation between the
agencies to decide what's safe.
Little Roberts: And, Madam Mayor, just a comment. I'm surprised regarding the
connectivity, because as I was reading through all the e-mails, one of the things that I
made -- kept making note of was requests for connectivity. So, I think that's one of
those situations that we have got a lot of people on both sides.
Reynolds: Sure. And, you know, those -- those people -- I would be happy to address
and I don't know where the safety issues outweigh the convenience. That might be
something that we need to bring before ACHD and before the Council again at the next
hearing. And maybe if they are here to testify they can let us know why.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for Mrs. Reynolds? Thank you so much. Mr.
Clerk.
Coles: Thank you. Michael Battaglia signed up as neutral, not wishing to testify.
Michael Arnold signed up against, not wishing to testify. Barbara Badigian signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Lori Badigian signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: I was thinking you didn't look like Lori, but -- good evening. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Badigian: My name is Jeff Badigian. I live at 6161 North Booth Avenue in Meridian.
So, I am in the Paramount Subdivision as well. So, I would just like to start by saying
I'm not opposed to this development, I'm just opposed to this development as it stands
and I -- I think that you will hear a lot of people come up here tonight in support of this --
this development and I think that they maybe won't be directly affected by the way the
development progresses. You know, in November the City Council did hear that
Planning and Zoning denied this unanimously and -- and I think that it's interesting that
-- I think historically you guys probably listen to Planning and Zoning a lot and if it's a
unanimous decision to deny, that you would at least ask some questions and not just
push it through and continue the process. So, anyways, we are where we are now and
it's not -- not that we can't change it. You know, I love that you talk about Smart Growth
For Meridian and I know that your Twitter tag is, you know, hashtag My Meridian and I
love that and I just want that to stay the way that it is. My Meridian. I'd hate for it to be
hashtag Your Meridian. So, I guess that Sally really said it all. I -- I totally back up
everything she says. I think that we should -- as you motioned -- remand this back to
P&Z, let them make the decision. There is still a few things on -- even on this new map
that they are showing, the Comprehensive -- I'm sorry -- their -- their new plan. That --
yeah. So, over here on the east side, which is -- abuts our house. There really is no
transition to the future office and retail development. It's just a walking path where the
water district has their land and, then, the homes and a parking lot right behind that.
So, there is a lot of things I think that need to be changed. You know, I know that they
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-- they moved the WinCo store a little bit north and they turned it and, then, they moved
it again. They showed on their plans 66 feet to the north. I can throw a rock that far. I
mean it's just not really that big of a change. I think that we expected a little more and,
again, that connectivity for this size of a development into our neighborhood is I think
just too much and there is going to be a lot of traffic, because there is not really a lot of
access out from Chinden and Linder and I -- honestly, we don't even know if ACHD is
going to allow the light at Bergman. So, there is a lot of things that need to happen and,
as Sally said, an eight week time frame to go back to P&Z -- if we go back now and they
start reviewing it, ACHD will have their -- their timeline done, their -- their plan done and
I think that in that amount of time maybe we can move forward, so thank you for your
time tonight.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor. Jeff, one of the concerns you brought up was
the location of the WinCo building. Is your concern with the -- the proximity of the
building itself to the residences or the loading dock? What facet of WinCo are you
concerned about?
Badigian: Well, Councilman Palmer, thank you for that question and I think that the
building itself -- it doesn't represent the way that the land use -- I'm sorry. And I don't
know the terms. Future land use map doesn't really say that this should go from
residential to commercial. You know, there was a transition plan in place and I think
that it would be prudent for us to move that out to the corner -- or move it farther north
than it is now. It should, in my opinion, be residential, you know, mixed use, small
mixed use, and, then, have that gradually transitioned into the larger store.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, follow up? And, Jeff -- and the additional structures that were
added in between -- not only the sound wall, but the -- you know, the pad site there and
the live -work structures, that's -- to you that's an inadequate transition?
Badigian: I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about.
Palmer: So, there on the screen between the WinCo and the residences --
Badigian: Yes.
Palmer: -- they added some structures there, the live -work structures and that small
pad site right there at the corner.
Badigian: I do see that and I just -- you know, I thought that there was going to be a two
transition phase into the commercial development. Not to mention that this -- this is
kind of a large commercial development, as opposed to what it was supposed to be on
the future land where it was a mixed use community. So, we have changed that a lot
and I just don't feel that that is an adequate transition into that larger of commercial.
De Weerd: You thank.
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Badigian: You thank.
Coles: David Eastman signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Eastman: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council Members. My name is Dave
Eastman. Or David Eastman. Sorry. I live at 1192 West Bacall Street. I'd like to kind
of give you a little bit of my background, just to help you understand a little bit more that
we are not just a bunch of NIMBYs who don't want anything behind us on that -- on that
land. I have been responsible for commercial development all over the U.S., in a couple
of countries in South America, several places in Idaho, probably upwards of, oh, about
one hundred million dollars spent on development. I have worked with city councils, I
have worked with mayors, I have worked with county commissioners, I have worked
with economic development. I have even worked with the lieutenant governor who gave
me a surprise call, but if you have ever talked to him he doesn't really announce it, so I
just got, hey, Dave, this is Brad and I had to kind of guess who he was and one thing he
told me was to never drop names. So, I'm glad I -- anyway, after all that I have seen we
kind of come to where we are right now. We have a proposed development -- as you
know, Planning and Zoning has recommended denial unanimously. We don't have
ACHD recommendations. Citizens have very legitimate and serious concerns about the
development and, fortunately, there is other people to elaborate on that more than I am.
I'm also losing my voice. You have an uncertain timeline with ITD on Chinden, various
-- various problems and, yet, the developer is here tonight and they are asking you to
approve it. They are not asking for a continuance and, again, this is a really awkward
situation and all that I have seen it kind of boggles my mind and what I think I can come
down to is they perceive that you guys are careless enough to just give them a blanket
approval on as it is without addressing any of these concerns. I don't think you're
careless. In fact, if we did think you were careless I mean we would vote somebody
else into these positions, so we think you are competent and we think you are smart
and that's why you are here making these decisions and what I would propose is that
this get sent back either to Planning and Zoning or it gets denied outright. Give them
some time to go back and to make the changes that are necessary, use your powers
and negotiate something that works for the community. Use your power to negotiate
something that will be remembered as a good development that makes good use of a
very important intersection. It's -- it's kind of interesting to see the whole development
of this also in that only changes get made when -- when the city agency or Council kicks
this a little bit down the road and forces them to make adjustments. So, send them
back, tell them they cannot have 24 hour operations abutting or next to -- I won't use the
official word -- next to residential development. Tell them they need to address issues
like connectivity, like traffic on Chinden, and I know you guys can do it, you're
competent, we have faith in you, and you have the power to do this and I recommend
and I implore you to do that. One question for planning staff, if I may --
De Weerd: Okay.
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Eastman: -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Your time is up, but one question.
Eastman: Okay. I noticed on Friday, the 12th, that the staff recommendations changed
from recommending denial to just recommending. I'm just wondering what influenced
that decision. It went out at one point and, then, it went back out at another point totally
different. So, I'm just wondering why that changed. What influenced that decision?
De Weerd: I can't answer that.
Eastman: Oh. Could staff by chance, possibly? Maybe?
Allen: Madam Mayor, would you like me to respond?
De Weerd: Oh, please, help me, because I wasn't part of that.
Allen: Madam Mayor, Council, staff only makes a recommendation to the Planning and
Zoning Commission. From that point on the Commission makes a recommendation to
City Council. Based on the last Council hearing staff was under the impression that
Council would like to have conditions of approval -- possible conditions of approval
moving forward should they vote to approve the application at tonight's hearing. The
hearing in November did not have conditions of approval associated with that, because
the Commission had recommended denial. Staff's out at this point.
Eastman: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Allen: However, if the application is remanded back to the Commission, then, staff
would at that point go through the whole staff report and likely make an amendment
based on the revised plans.
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Mr. Eastman, thanks for coming to testifying. Just like to make
sure that I understand all of your concerns. It seems like the main points you wanted to
-- is for us to wait to hear from other government agencies on their opinions on the
project, but, then, you did mention one of the changes -- you mentioned a lot about the
word change, but the only -- only change I think I heard you mention was your concern
with the 24 hour facility and its proximity to residential units. Is there a scenario on the
property in which you would be okay with a 24 hour facility or just -- or are you okay with
WinCo with limited hours?
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Eastman: Councilman Palmer, thank you for your question. You know, that's all -- the
problem is -- and I'm going to give you a very long answer to a short question. I
apologize for those coming after me. The problem is in asking that question you're
making the assumption that the developer would be willing to do this and we have gone
through this basically at loggerheads with the developer and the developers only make
changes when it's absolutely been necessary. Would I personally come to a point
where a 24 hour operation could be acceptable if they move the WinCo far away -- oh,
I'm sorry -- far enough away from residential. I think so. I mean this could be a
wonderful location and WinCo is not going anywhere, because they see that this is a
good location. I mean it really is. So, why don't we use that to make it right for the
community and make it something where we go, oh, this is a wonderful location, we are
happy and nobody's driving past it cursing like many of the other intersections around
here and everybody is happy with it. So, to answer your question, I said it would be
long, I think it is possible. I mean we are not, again, a bunch of NIMBYs who are saying
we don't want anything back there.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. And I asked the question without any assumption as to what
they might or might not do. They can ask whatever they want and, then, we will make a
decision. But I guess when it comes to operations -- and this just came to mind. I don't
know if it's to yourself or the audience, maybe, as to whether they don't want -- they just
don't want it open to customers? Would you be okay with the restocking and whatever
or just it's shut down for the night?
Eastman: Councilman Palmer, thanks again for the question. I would say operations
means any operations, so -- but if they are receiving shipping it has to be within
reasonable hours. I mean the city has ordinances dictating this and I just respectfully
request that they -- that the city enforce those ordinances.
Palmer: Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Eastman: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, is a 24 hour operation allowed in this designation?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes. So, it's in either one of two forms.
As you have heard, it's where the property is adjacent to residential property and
adjacent in our code means the property lines abut each other. So, they touch. In this
case that's been the direction from staff is that the property lines, as -- as this is
subdivided, no longer are abutting, so there are no restrictions on their operation. If
they were abutting it's still not prohibited, it's allowed through a conditional use where
the Planning and Zoning Commission or the Council if it were to be appealed, would set
whatever conditions they feel would be appropriate to lessen or mitigate some of the
impacts to the neighborhood. Not necessarily eliminate all the impacts, but to mitigate
or lessen some of those impacts. So, in either scenario it's allowed in this location.
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One requires a conditional use if it is -- if the property lines do abut each other. The
other does not have any restriction on that. So, I hope that answers your question. But
it is allowed in either scenario in this circumstance. One just requires a conditional use
permit instead of just being allowed outright.
De Weerd: And as proposed it would not need a conditional use permit?
Nary: That's correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Justin Carpenter signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Carpenter: Justin Carpenter. 5991 North Arliss.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Carpenter: I know there has been some -- you know, I guess abutting -- it's got a clear
definition to everybody in this development, but I am, in my opinion, abutting this. I am
on Arliss. I am touching this project and it affects me and my family. Saying that, we
are not against this development. We bought this house and we are excited for
something to be built there. But we don't love this. You know, especially the -- you
know, I like the changes the developer has made with this most recent revision, but,
then, they have added that building, that pad there on the south side that actually
touches my property and, you know, I -- I want definite restrictions. I don't want a three
story office building going in, you know, looking down in my backyard. Now, I did hear
them say that there was going to be some congruence of the skyline to meet the
surrounding, so, you know, hopefully, there can be restrictions to -- to limit what gets
built in that southern pad if it does go in. A lot of my other neighbors have also said that
that joining of the neighborhood through that red line that's come up a couple of times, I
think that that's just going to lead to problems. You know, Arliss was not designed as a
through street and there is currently no stop sign on Bacall. So, you have people trying
to use that through street, you have no stop sign on Bacall. That might be a discussion
for another time, but that's definitely a public safety issue that's going to have to be
taken into consideration. I have had numerous close calls with people not realizing my
house is right back in that corner and they just come whipping around making that left-
hand turn and nearly take us out. You know, what I see with this plan mostly is, you
know, when you go to the grocery store you take your car, you know, you're filling up
with groceries and, you know, if this was really what the developer is trying to advertise
it to be, you know, it seems like it should be inverted, you know, because you're going to
-- you know, if I could walk to a retail -- if I could walk to a restaurant in the evening I
would. I would prefer that. I mean we have some beautiful summer nights and, you
know, I just think that this is just -- it's flipped the wrong way. All of the pedestrian traffic
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-- you know, probably 90 percent of it would be coming from the Paramount
Subdivision, you know, and you put -- you put those shops furthest away from them
you're not going to get pedestrians walking over from Fred Meyers or from the Fox Run
area. This just doesn't make congruent sense to me, you know. If it's going to be there
for us and most of us do want something. You know, my concern is 24 hour access,
that through street, and -- you know. And the potential for residential affecting the
school district. You know, Paramount Elementary and the middle schools are all
overburdened.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Carpenter. Any questions from Council? Thank you.
Carpenter: Thanks.
Coles: Mary Eastman signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. Eva Eastman signed up
in favor, not wishing to testify. Dorothy Pefferle signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Linda Bayford signed up against, not wishing to testify. Bruce Penske signed up
against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Penske: My name is Bruce Penske. My address 998 West Bacall. My property is
immediately abutting his property, a little -- I'm three houses from Bergman Street and
you have heard of Bergman. Madam Mayor and Council Members, a couple of items. I
was disappointed when your prior motion failed. I would much prefer to come back and
have the whole Council have more information from Planning and Zoning than try to
make a decision tonight that may become an uninformed decision. The -- WinCo has
moved their store 66 feet. They say that they have met with the neighborhood a second
time. I was never notified of that. Any changes that they have made to their plan have
been very reluctantly and very small changes, in my opinion. There is still a huge issue
with the traffic on Chinden that could be tied up for years and I travel Chinden quite
often living right there on the north side. If you approved it tonight, from Planning and
Zoning they said that you could approve it with conditions of approval, but you still don't
have all the information you need to make any kind of approval and it should be
remanded back to the Planning and Zoning again, to gather all the information that you
really need. I don't think you should be rushed into a bad decision, because you will
have to live with it for the rest of your lives and everyone in -- in Meridian will, too, and
even as far away as Caldwell -- the people that commute from Caldwell across Chinden
Boulevard, which is a state highway and to tie it up, the light at Bergman is crazy. The
ITD website says that when stoplights are at a half mile intersection it reduces the
speed limits to 36 miles an hour average. When you put them in at a quarter mile,
which is what Bergman would be, it reduces that average speed to 18 miles an hour
and that's on the ITD website. So, that would be a huge bottleneck from Caldwell to
Boise by way of Highway 20-26. So, go with your initial thoughts and remand it back to
the Planning and Zoning for further study. Thank you.
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De Weerd: Mr. Penske, I have a question for you. Then you think that rather than
having the light there at Bergman you would want it at Fox Run and funnel all the traffic
out this -- out of this development onto a subdivision lighted signalization?
Penske: Well, as someone else said, they don't want the connectivity and that's
another thing is do we or don't we and it depends on what's built out there. Other
people have talked about the size of the stores, but Fox Run doesn't give you access
unless on the east side of this those other streets come through into this development
and Bergman, which is three doors from me and Arliss all go in, then, people could turn
in Fox Run and come through. There has been talk about getting access through
property that Brighton owns right near Veranda Living Center, across from there on Fox
Run. That would be sort of a frontage road that would give access and by way of a
light, but coming through the residential area is not a good option. As Sally said, the --
the traffic on Arliss will be a major -- major thoroughfare on Arliss, which it isn't built for.
De Weerd: So, you are advocating, then, that this not get the light and that all of that
traffic, then, would go to Fox Run?
Penske: Well, Fox Run or the entrances on Linder Road. But to put another light so
that you have one at Linder, Bergman, Fox Run and Meridian Road -- to have four lights
in a mile stretch is too many lights and just slows traffic down to a state highway.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Coles: James Sweet signed up against, not wishing testify. Ginger Sweet signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Pat Brown signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Roger Lyngaas signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for sticking with us. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Lyngaas: My name is Robert Lyngaas, 12713 Renwick. I do need a favor. I would like
to call up on the screen the open space exhibit. Thank you. After reviewing the plan
changes, my comments are such -- my first question is where did the green space go?
As you saw in the video, that's virtual reality. What we need to realize is -- where is this
mouse? Okay. See where the plaza is? That is not exactly green space. That's going
to be concrete. So, the color green -- I just want to make sure we understand -- is not
green space. Oops. I'm -- okay. Thank you. In light of that, there is significant
improvements in this design and I appreciate that. There are a few other things I want
to point out with this map. If you look where the mouse is, there was a point made in
the presentations that the distance from here to over here is 567 feet. Perhaps that's
so. However, the trucks are coming through here and they are making a lot of noise
right here, if you understand shipping. That is probably less than 300 feet. We don't
have an exact number. Which is less than a hundred yards. I just want everyone to be
aware of that. Now, where is the bus stop? I heard someone talk about a bus stop just
once. For a development like this, I honestly believe you need a major bus stop, not a
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minor one. People are going to be going down Chinden all the way into Boise on
buses. Where is it? Could someone point that out to me? I'm sorry, I didn't hear
anything. So, perhaps that will wait for Planning and Zoning. Lastly, which plan is the
developer really submitting? I have seen several plans. None have been
recommended for approval by our Planning and Zoning Commission. In light of that, I
actually encourage you to reject the project entirely. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor? To your question on the location of the -- the bus stop.
Lyngaas: Yes.
Borton: The pointer is showing its location. Whether it's the appropriate size or not, at
least that's --
Lyngaas: Oh, where would I like it? Thank you. I'd love it right where the plaza is.
That's easy access for elderly people for all the stores. Okay? My mother would love
that.
Borton: Okay. Thank you.
Coles: Shantel Archuleta signed up against, not wishing to testify. Frank Turner signed
up in favor, not wishing to testify. Dena Uhlenkoff signed up in favor, not wishing to
testify. Bob Uhlenkoff signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. Andrea Carroll signed
up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will -- not grab that.
Carroll: Good evening. My name is Andrea Carroll. I represented a group of citizens
that -- Protect Meridian. My address is 714 West State Street. That's my office
address. I'm an attorney. I'm a land use attorney and I have been in front of the
Planning and Zoning Commission and the City Council several times on -- hello? Okay.
Bernt: Thank you, C.Jay. That was fantastic.
De Weerd: That fixed it.
Carroll: Yeah. So, whenever you're approving an annexation or providing initial zoning
or handling a rezone request, what you're doing is you're providing a very important
legal entitlement to the developer. Once you give that away -- and if you do that by
approving with conditions of approval that they comply with ACHD and ITD -- once you
give that away you put yourself in an inferior position to address the issues that might
come up as these plans develop, because this is a concept plan. As they have
emphasized, it's not -- it could change quite a bit and so once you give that entitlement
to the developer, you have lost a lot of your bargaining power to be able to address the
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issues that the community has brought forward to you. You also lose the ability to hear
from the citizens when they are able to look at, for instance, the traffic counts. They
were -- they were very quickly addressed by the developer this evening and it was
stated that they are the same, but I would like to point out to the -- to the Council that no
traffic counts have ever been entered into the record, that even the original traffic impact
study was never entered into the record. We are waiting for an updated traffic impact
study. There is virtually nothing in the record to support the Council's findings that this
would not be an adverse impact to public safety and those findings, even if you put as
conditions of approval to comply with ACHD and ITD, what are you going to base those
findings on? What is in the record is an evaluation from COMPASS and that came in
right at the tail end of the Planning and Zoning Commission's review of this application
and I haven't heard it addressed very much in front of City Council, but what COMPASS
had to say -- and they take a very holistic view, unlike ACHD that looks at one part of
the problem, and ITD that looks at a different part of the problem and City of Meridian
that's looking just at the land -- land use problem. They are looking holistically and
what they have said is the proposal exceeds growth forecasted for this neighborhood
and transportation infrastructure may not be able to support demand. I think that puts it
on the City of Meridian to get a little more information than what the developer has
provided you tonight to feel comfortable that this is not going to be detrimental to the
safety of the citizens of Meridian. It's -- it's not good enough what they have proposed
with the STAR plan and Chinden. It's not good enough. It doesn't protect citizens. The
plan that's been presented with Arliss with -- with children at the schools that are in an
open campus going to and from WinCo and the children and the site -- and it's not even
a collector street. It's not good enough. I ask that you deny and I will stand for any
questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you. I'm going to call a five
minute break. Just -- we will reconvene then.
(Recess: 9:14 p.m. to 9:23 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and ask that this meeting come back to order and we
will ask Mr. Clerk to resume from the list.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Next on the list Annette Alonzo, signed up against,
wishing testifying.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Alonzo: Hi. I'm Annette Alonzo. I live at 2204 East Hyper Drive in Meridian and I'm
representing the Southern Rim Coalition, whose is banding together with this group.
We are trying to help each other through things like this in our community with Meridian.
So, I know there was a letter sent to you today. I'm not sure if all of you got to read it,
but I'm just going to kind of summarize some of those things and add a few anecdotes
and that will just be quick for you. So, Southern Rim Coalition has been monitoring this
Linder Village. I was here at the October meeting when it was very clear that Planning
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and Zoning wanted that WinCo moved up onto the Chinden corner, rather than down
where it is now and the developer definitely said they were not going to do any kind of
redraw. So, I listened to that myself. The Linder Village outcome will set a precedent --
a city-wide precedent for development up against residential areas in our livable
neighborhoods and so we urge the City Council take time to get this right. We need to
remand this back to Planning and Zoning. Planning and Zoning needs to look at all the
detail and there is not -- all the detail has not been given here. So, I don't even know
how a decision could be made. The latest iteration was submitted a week ago. I don't
think that gave adequate time for the people -- the residents to even review this. One
week was not a long enough time for them to be able to go through this and really look
at their options and talk to the people they needed to talk to. The present reiteration is
virtually a new application. So, of course, Planning and Zoning should see it. They
have made several changes -- multiple changes in this. The application still doesn't
address all the issues that the residents wanted. The thing about the time that the store
is going to be open -- I don't think they have an issue with WinCo, I think people like
WinCo. It's one of our local groups. We like it. I think it's just with -- about where it is
located, the noise it has -- I know I lived for six months upon on the corner of McMillan
and Eagle Road in The Legends. I was down McMillan away from the Albertsons. At
4:00 o'clock in the morning the garbage trucks came and it shot me out of bed every
day that those dumped in there and they dumped three or four times. So, I know how
much noise and I was probably 200 or more yards away from that. So, I know how
much noise a grocery store area can make and these people have legitimate reasons
for not wanting the hours and those things going like that. So, we are not against
growth. We need these services. Our communities need these services. It just needed
to be smart, because once these decisions are made it impacts us forever. We can't go
back and change it. So, we need to make sure we make smart decisions now and
really think about this and look at all the data before we make a decision. Questions?
De Weerd: Thank you.
Alonzo: Thank you very much.
Coles: Tony Alonzo, signed up against, not wishing to testify. Jonathan Khanoski
signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Khanoski: Good evening. I'm Jonathan Khanoski. I live at three -- my wife and I live at
357 West Heston Court. That's in Paramount. Madam Mayor and Council Members, I
would like to make three points. Contrary to a lot of expressions tonight, the changes
that have been made are really rather minor and cosmetic. It's the same sea of parking,
with the same buildings scattered about with no center of gravity. Imagine working in
the retail on the east side and wanting to go to one of the restaurants, how far you have
to walk. How many lanes of traffic you have to cross. This isn't pedestrian friendly at
all. It's the same concept that you see all up and down Eagle Road, with the same strip
mall appearance. One of the objections that I have and why I wish to have this denied
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and have them go back and start with a clean sheet is because this is really tweaking
around the edges. It's not a major revamp, a whole new design. I would also note -- I
have been in a dense forest up at Fort Lewis, Washington, in the middle of the night and
I have heard trucks running and I have heard doors slamming and I have heard
conversations from three and four hundred feet -- even two, three hundred yards away,
because at night travel -- sound travels much, much further than during the day. There
is no ambient noise to drown out those noises. So, a line of trees is not going to protect
the nearby neighborhood. Point two. Why are we here? This proposed project or
application started in gross violation of the Comprehensive Plan multiple use community
zoning and after months in consideration and going back and forth, the developer has
made minimal changes and only begrudgingly and never considered a whole new
design. The primary tenant has made no meaningful compromise on either location or
hours of operation. This should be a no brainer. Deny it. Period. Number three. This
decision -- not to make too much of it, but the decision having to do with this decides the
future. Deny this application and you uphold the Comprehensive Plan. Approve this
and you say we have a Comprehensive Plan, but it's negotiable and it opens the door to
the next guy and the next guy and the next guy wanting similar treatment and we
citizens can no longer count on the Comprehensive Plan to have any meaning and offer
any protection to us. Deny this application and you say Meridian stands for smart,
elegant growth. Approve it and you say this application and Meridian is just another
burb, like all of the other burbs chasing growth, even if it leads to ugly sprawl. The
future is in your hands. Thank you. Questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I do have one question for you. Which do you think is worse -- or -- or is a
bigger problem to try to solve, the hours of operation at the location where the WinCo is
or the size of the footprint of the store itself? Because one necessitates a large parking
lot regardless of the hours of operation. Or are either of those a greater evil?
Khanoski: I would say in terms of the impact on -- on the surrounding community, it's
the noise. Now, whether that's harder to solve -- and I -- frankly, any grocery store in an
MUC should not be 10,000 -- whatever this is. Eighty-five thousand square feet, 24/7.
That's an industrial -sized operation. It should be something like Whole Foods or Trader
Joe's, something in the 20 to 30 thousand square foot range, so that it fits in and it
doesn't need 500 acres of parking. It can be done much smaller. I did a -- there was an
article in the Wall Street Journal a while back and if you like I will send it to all of you,
but it was describing how retail is coming back. But it isn't going in the malls, it's going
in next to -- next to residential and they highlighted one -- one place in -- I think it was
Fort Worth, Texas, and I went and looked at their website and so forth and that's what --
they had two -- it was one big long pedestrian kind of expression. There was an REI at
one end and it was a Whole Foods at the other and lots of local -- I don't think it was a
single national chain -- certainly nothing fast food drive-thru in that entire complex.
There were two parking lots, it was a separate building off, but the -- the pedestrians
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walked only a short distance from one cluster of buildings to the other. So, it was
minimal exposure to traffic. And that's the kind of design that should be here. Not
restaurants up on the road for visibility, because that's what the chain restaurants want,
and not -- you have three, four, five different centers of gravity. If I shop in the plaza
and I want to eat, how far do I have to walk? Or now I want to go to the movie. Look
how far back I want to go if that -- that one building down there is -- is going to be a
movie theater. I mean if you want jogging trails this thing is great. But for -- for the
average person going out and shopping and dining and hanging out, having a glass of
wine after dinner, this is a nightmare and dodging cars the whole time.
Coles: Keith Jones signed up in favor, wishing to testify.
Jones: Madam Mayor, Council Members, good evening. Thank you. I had not
prepared words, had not known that was --
De Weerd: Can you, please, state your name and address first.
Jones: Oh. Keith Jones. 280 West Corporate Drive, Suite 130.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jones: Thank you. Listening here today, same as I did last time, there are many
organized intelligent people and I know that you represent many thousands beyond this
room and I think there are probably thousands of people that will benefit. Prior to this
there were other items on the agenda, all of which required funding. You know, we are
looking for -- here we come along, there is a source of funding and it gets pushed away
with a stick. I don't -- I can't quite square that circle. I had heard things in this hearing
with respect to, you know, how overcrowded the schools -- this is primarily a
commercial development. It does have a residential component to it. The Planning and
Zoning I think has a -- the planning has eight units per acre. I think it's at about four
units per acre. So, I believe the benefits do outweigh the negatives and if there is a way
to approve with condition that allows you to speak to some of the remaining concerns --
some of the concerns I'm not sure how to speak to, whether or not the subdivision gets
pushed closer to the existing subdivision and the residents, if it goes along to Chinden
or vice -versa. I don't know how to square that circle. But whether the changes were
reluctantly made or made on -- they were made and it has been a collaborative process
and I do see a team here trying to speak to the concerns of the neighbors and the
surrounding areas. You have the municipalities. Everybody has their own interest. But
how do you move it forward to benefit many thousands that aren't in this room, frankly. I
believe there are benefits here. The area is growing. You know many of us have
moved here -- I moved here 27 years ago. I got married, moved here, started a family,
stated a business. Will die here. There will be many people coming after me that will
do the same thing for the same reasons that I'm coming here. I don't think we can
control that. However, we can bring services. Another thing that this project does is it
expedites planning for Chinden that may take ten years without it. It gets it done now. I
think it's more contributory to the solutions to the problems that we have than
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contributing to the problem and I -- I know there are a lot of smart, concerned people in
here and if there is a way that that could be addressed and -- and it could move forward,
too, that's, obviously, what I would like to see, but good luck to you and your decision
making -- you're making in behalf of many more that are not in this room. Thank you for
your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Doreen Carbaugh signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. Clarence Carbaugh
signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. Pam Koch signed up against, not with to
testify. Nick Eller signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. David Reyes signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Jim Alexander signed up in favor, wishing to testify.
Alexander: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Alexander: Hi. My name is Jim Alexander. I live at 1060 West State Street in Meridian.
I'd like to request -- if you could put up the architect slide looking northeastern. Can't
see it from here, but --
De Weerd: You can see it on the screen in front of you.
Alexander: Oh, great. The architect. Yeah. It's showing the back of WinCo looking to
the northeast.
De Weerd: The flyover one?
Alexander: Again -- that's it. As I was sitting here through the presentation I -- when I
saw this I was pretty pleased, because I was thinking, you know that new Walmart on
Overland to the west of Meridian Road, when you enter the backside of that, there is a
residential behind there. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe so. And they don't have
anything like this. I mean this is a wide area, you know, that people have been talking
about, 600 feet or 300 feet. But this is big and if that gentleman that was talking about
the forest, hearing garbage trucks, could hear garbage trucks, I think you're going to
hear noise no matter where you have it, because we don't have anywhere near that
many trees. Obviously I'm in favor of this project. I think that the developer has listened
to, you know, a lot of the concerns, made this change, and I think this area shown is a
win-win for both the developer and the residents, because this is a beautiful area, you
know, compared to what it could be like with that Walmart, you know, and also thinking
that WinCo in Boise on Milwaukee, there is residents behind there, too, you know, so
this is a pretty wide area and so I think it's a win-win. It has a large buffer area and it's
beautiful on both sides. You know, it could be a lot worse. The widening of Chinden I
think is a great benefit. I think the developer is spending the money to do that. You
guys were talking earlier about impact fees for fire stations, police stations. By him
footing the bill on that that saves a lot of people a lot of money. And, then, that open
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area in the plaza, I think that is a really big, great area. You know, people walk around
there, they can hang out there, there is a park behind there. But six and a half acres of
open space, compared to only three and half that's requested -- or required, I think there
is a lot of concessions and this looks like a really -- a lot better development than it was
two months ago. So, thank you for listening and I hope you approve it.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Greg Nalder signed up against, wishing to testify.
Nalder: My name is Greg Nalder. I live at 6018 North Booth Avenue in Meridian. If we
could go back to the -- the plat that has been on the screen for most of -- most of the
hearing. My main concern with the proposed development as it currently stands has to
do with something that's been kicked around a bit this evening without any adequate
solution, which is the traffic circulation. It has been pointed out that placing stop lights
on Chinden Boulevard would not be an acceptable solution. I agree with that. Forcing
traffic past my house in Paramount Subdivision in order to access the development is
also unacceptable. It is not incumbent upon the citizens of the community to solve that
problem. The onus for solving that problem is on the applicant. I have heard, however,
some good suggestions during our break from some of my neighbors. David McKinney
suggested that the Fox Run access could be enlarged with a roundabout and an east -
west thoroughfare could be provided into -- into the Linder Village that would be a
preferable route to folks trying to access it, rather than the neighborhood. One final
thought. Reiterating, again, something that's already been expressed and that is that
though I live about two blocks from the east border of the proposed development,
nothing about it is conducive to me wanting to walk there. A reorganization of the shops
such that those most amenable or useful to folks without a vehicle be placed near the
residential areas would be a vast improvement. Finally, I heard an epithet today at work
that seems to have relevance here. It's attributed to Napoleon Bonaparte who said I'm
in a hurry, dress me slowly. In other words, I don't have time for a mistake. My
recommendation is that this proposal be remanded back to the Planning and Zoning
Committee.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Sir, you mentioned a roundabout idea. Where exactly?
Nalder: That would be on Fox Run just south of Chinden Boulevard. Well, let's see. I
believe I have a map. And in this vicinity --
De Weerd: That's not up -- we don't show it. Can you give a different -- hold on for a
sec.
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Nalder: Fox Run. So, it would be about here. No, not further south. We would -- we
would not want that down in the neighborhood. So, bringing it off of Fox Run in this
vicinity before -- before folks are encouraged to enter the neighborhood and try to
access the development through the neighborhood. Then a frontage road that would
extend through the -- through the planned development, something in this configuration
seemed like a plausible alternative.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I thought you were saying put a roundabout on Chinden and I was like, no,
that's not what he said.
Nalder: No. No, that's not what I said. Any other questions? Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Noel O'Shea. Noel.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
O'Shea: Thank you, Madam Mayor. My name is Noel O'Shea and I live on Bellagio
Drive in Meridian, the subdivision across from Sawtooth Middle School. So, I'm -- I'm
aware of gridlock during school hours and getting to school and coming through. I also,
as a mom, who would really love a WinCo closer to home, I find that there is a lot of
throwing the baby out with the bath water, because I'm hearing people say things like,
well, Whole Foods, we already have Walmart. If we are going to grow Meridian smart
why wouldn't we pick a company that's actually started in Idaho over Walmart. Even
Fred Meyer. And I hear a lot of the issues with Arliss and I can't say I don't agree. I
absolutely do. Like I said, I am a mom and my kids are impulsive, so I really wouldn't
want them to get hit if I lived on Arliss. But I feel like there could be a lot more solutions
brought to the table, as opposed to just wanting to throw the whole process away.
Chinden already is a backup, if you have ever had to go there at 5:00 o'clock, which I
hope you don't have to, but if you do it's already backed up. When these other
businesses came in, like Fred Meyer and the Meridian Mormon Temple and other
businesses around there, nobody did anything about Chinden then and, to be honest, it
was still a mess before they came and still is. So, here we are trying to put in WinCo,
which, again, is an Idaho company, would further our growth here and there is all this
opposition about what to do on Chinden. And as far as the noise with WinCo and
having deliveries -- from a good source I heard that there is only two to four deliveries a
day. If the idea is to move WinCo around, I feel like there should be a lot of input from
the community about where they want it and not just -- I don't like the greenbelt, I don't
like this. What their ideal plan would be to have WinCo there. I think -- and keep in
mind we do have a Fred Meyer that has exactly kind of that layout with all the little
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shops up front that's right across the street. So, I'm absolutely for this. I want this to
work for everyone. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Summer Wilson signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Wilson: My name is Summer Wilson. I live at 5809 North Arliss. So, I'm, obviously,
one of those moms that has children that live on that street, so -- and I'm a crier and I
will cry no matter what, but -- anyway. Stop me right there, huh. So, what I came up
here to actually talk about -- I'm -- I want to read a statement from a dentist that is
actually right off of Linder. I'm probably not close enough, am I? And his name is Chris
Kelson. So, I'm just going to read a statement for him, since he couldn't be here today.
My name is Chris Kelson. I own Kelson Orthodontics on Linder. I am concerned not
only at the size and scope of the Linder Village development just up the road for my
business that caters to teens and young people walking to and from my office, but at the
uneven representation allowed on -- allotted on the City of Meridian. You seem to have
forgotten the small business owner and the homeowner. These large and perpetually
busy businesses create disruption to the flow of people and traffic that we have become
accustomed to and have built our homes and businesses to thrive in. Please reconsider
this development. Do not allow any 24/7 operations so near our homes. That's the end
of the statement. I just -- thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Summer.
Coles: Tyler Wilson signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
T.Wilson: Good evening. I'm Tyler Wilson. I live at 5809 North Arliss Avenue. During
the time this whole process has been taking place I have set some personal goals and I
have shed 60 pounds of fat and I kind of wish the developer would take some
consolation in that and do the same at this point, being that this development has made
changes, but the major zoning laws that were presented at the very beginning when we
started fighting this project, the WinCo is still enormous. They still want 24/7 operation.
They barely moved their position despite constant -- constantly being asked to by those
that live near it and around it. They have added additional plots that are almost as big,
ignoring again what this land is supposed to be used for. They continue to ignore our
recommendations in these key areas concerning the traffic light and now we have got
access into the subdivision, namely down my street, which I don't know if you have got
high school kids, but they don't exactly tend to slow down when they are on lunch break
and only have 30 minutes to get to a place to get lunch and get back to school and
Arliss becomes a .3 mile instead of a mile -- or a little over a half mile with no lights and
no cops. It's going to become the main thoroughfare that they are going to race down to
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get their lunch and get back to school and that scares me to death, not only for the
students that walk and have to go across that little crosswalk there, those kids are going
to be turning around and there is trees there which creates a blind spot, not to mention
all the cars that are parked on the street in the first place. There are too many issues at
this point that are not being addressed that are the major issues that were bought at the
very beginning to the Planning and Zoning and to this Council. Those need to be
addressed. This needs to go back to Planning and Zoning. This needs to be better
than it has been. We can do so much better. We have made suggestions over and
over again. Constantly. They have been ignored and we have been told we are not
making any changes. Only after being told that they need to work on it by City Council
and by Planning and Zoning do they make minor changes to try and appease enough
people to get it through. Other businesses have made 24/7 attempts, like Walgreens
and the Stinker Station there on the corner of Linder and McMillan. Those got denied.
Why is WinCo different? Why do they get the benefit? And how is that benefit going to
impact other neighborhoods that are going to have to deal with this in the future? There
is too much at stake right now. This is not the plan that we need. This is not the right
plan for this area. This should be following the plan that the city has agreed on, that --
we moved here in May. This was our dream home. And now it's going to become this.
This isn't right. This isn't worth it. We can do so much better. This area right here
where it's supposed to be pedestrian traffic, this is a major throughway for cars going
into WinCo. Also up here. I'm not going to walk across that. That's a death trap.
That's not pedestrian friendly. We can do so much better and we deserve better. Let's
do that, please. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
T.Wilson: Any questions?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I'd like to ask you a question regarding the 24 hour access. We have heard a
lot about that tonight. I used to own a 24 hour business and there are businesses that
need to be open 24 hours. That's the model. I went before the Council and was told
this is not the right location, Ustick and Meridian Road. You need to take this business
to Eagle Road or Chinden. Okay. Now we are talking about a business that's 24 hour
access on an arterial and a state highway. If that's not the location for 24 hour access,
what is?
T.Wilson: We have already discussed the fact that most of us would approve the 24
hours if they would get it away from our houses. That's what we have been asking for
almost from the beginning was can we, please, just move it -- we talked about --
somebody mentioned the Walmart up on Overland. I work right next to that Walmart. It
is right up against Overland and is also facing the street with the docks, unlike this one,
which is what we asked where that it faces Linder with the docks. They only turned to
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45 degrees. The Walmart up there is facing the street. So, it can be done. The
Walmart down here on Fairview, its docks are facing away from the residential
neighborhood as well. WinCo even has some of their own stores that face against the
residential with their docks. There is things that they could do that they are refusing to
do and that's what we have a problem with is it -- they could move it up a little further.
They could turn it more. There is options. They refuse to do every single one, because
somehow this little plot where it is is somehow sacred to them and I don't know why and
they have never explained it to anyone.
Milam: Can you show me on the plan where would be an acceptable location? Only
that location?
T.Wilson: I think it could work here. I also think it could work over here. I would even
like to see this move over here and even push WinCo up here and, then, you have got
the major retail all here and they can share a parking lot, reducing the amount of
parking spaces, providing for more green space in the process. There is ways that we
can win here for everyone involved and nothing is being done about the major concerns
and that's where we are -- we are just having such a conflict and why we are fighting
this so hard, because we are feeling ignored and we are feeling like we are not being
listened to and that we are getting rushed over on this, when the decision shouldn't be
made in a rush. The changes that this is going to impose are going to impact other
areas as well. They are asking for leniency in areas that haven't been granted to
anyone else in Meridian and if we do that now, who else is going to feel the brunt of
that? The developers will get their money and they will walk away and they will be
happy. The rest of us that live here are going to have to do -- have to deal with the
impacts of that for the entire time we live here. People on NextDoor told me, well, why
don't you just move then. I don't want to move. I just got here. It was hard enough the
first time and we finally got the house that we wanted and the place that we wanted and
we were so excited to move here and now we are having to deal with this and it's been
frustrating and challenging and -- but, by golly, it's worth it because if we can get
something that's beautiful and gorgeous and that I can really get behind, I am so excited
for that opportunity. I think it's there. I think we can do it. Can we just get some help?
We have been fighting for that help all this time and we have been ignored.
Milam: Thank you.
T.Wilson: Any others? Thank you.
Coles: Matt Hessing signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Hessing: Good evening. My name is Matt Hessing. I'm at 1153 West Bacall. I really
appreciate all your time this evening and I know it's a lot to be away from your family.
I'm a scout master in a local scout group affiliated with my church and a big thing that
we talk about with scouts is how much we can make an impact through our local
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government. I have brought scout troops to City Council before. It's been a great
experience. A couple of things that -- that I do want to say is I believe in the public
process. I believe that we have the ability to make things good and this is one of those
opportunities that we have. I'm not against development at all. I want this to be a good
-- a good development. We have heard a lot of the concerns that I'm going to bring
forward. I just want to bring forward three of them tonight. The traffic is a main concern
coming Arliss. You have heard the majority of that argument and I won't belabor it. I do
want to highlight the fact that I have many family and friends that live just south of
McMillan that have commented to me that they will be cutting through Paramount
neighborhood if there is access given to them off Arliss and other streets. So, it's not
just the high school, it's a lot of the surrounding mile, two miles, four mile area that will
be cutting up through Paramount. Also Cayuse Creek is -- will become a speed lane. It
already is a major issue right now with the high school students. It will become a
hundred times worse. I have a question -- I mean I have a concern about the hours and
I believe that that's been addressed already. There are future residential developments.
The reason why I pose a concern there and questions is I have lived in houses before
that there is promises that have been made, plats that have been laid out for future
development, and it ends up not necessarily being what's been told. So, I have more
questions about what the townhomes involve, what the alley homes involve, what the
single family residential involves. If it's truly planned to be that, if they have a developer
in line for that or if this is more of a, hey, residents just get off our back, this is what we
think is going to happen and, then, two years down the line we just get totally
snowballed, because we don't have any impact on that anymore. I have major concern
about that, as Mrs. Reynolds commented earlier in her testimony, about the other
development that took place that we were able to work with the developer and not have
the massive amount of apartments come in. That is my main concern on that. Thank
you thank.
De Weerd: Thank you. Appreciate it.
T.Wilson: Thank you.
Coles: Emily Hessing signed up against, wishing to testify.
E.Hessing: Hi. I'm Emily Hessing. I live at 1153 West Bacall Street. And I wanted to
come and -- in a minute I'm going to talk about Walmart. This is a big topic today and I
went to Walmart and talked to people at Walmart. So, we will talk about that in just a
second. But first one of my biggest concerns the whole time -- even before my husband
and I even moved into our home on Bacall, was I called and talked to C.Jay and I asked
him like a lot about this. I even talked to some of the people -- the developer and I'm
like is there going to be a through street with like, you know, Arliss and Bergman and
like surely they are not going to -- like be a direct route, because that's so dangerous
and the developer -- initially they did -- they had a plan, just like the Mayor said at the
last meeting, there wasn't a connection there and we were happy about that. That
made a lot of us relieved to see that those weren't going to go through. ACHD came
back and requested that they add that. So, they did. So, I don't fault the developer for
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adding that back in. But what I would like to see is the Council say, even if -- if ACHD
said that we need it, it's not appropriate and this is the reason why. If you go back to
that aerial that we saw that showed some more of the streets -- yes. Right here. What
you can't really see is Cayuse Creek right by the high school. So, you have the church
and, then, you have the parking lot for the high school and this whole area -- Cayuse
Creek, going by the beautiful ponds and all through our neighborhood, at different times
of the day it is gridlocked. It is insane. My daughter, who doesn't want to walk because
she's almost gotten hit so many times trying to walk to Rocky, will actually drive the,
what, maybe .2 miles and she will leave early so she can get through all the traffic to get
over there to the Rocky High School, which is like two streets away. And so my
daughter is leaving like, you know, a half an hour early to go there and the reason is
because all of these neighborhoods to the north and to the east will come and they don't
want to wait on Chinden and, then, go down Linder to get into the high school, so they
cut through Cayuse Creek and they do the same thing on the way after school and at
lunchtime they do the same thing. They go up Linder Road and they go to Fred Meyer
or they go down. I mean they each will run -- if you have ever seen the kids come out of
Rocky Mountain High School at the end of school, you would think there was a fire
going on in the school, because they start running like this and you have never seen
these kids run so fast, just so they can beat all the traffic and they can get where they
want to go. Well, just imagine that Arliss, which is full of young families, has children,
you know, and their cars zooming through at lunchtime, because they have to -- it's not
enough time. I don't know why they ever shortened that lunch hour to half an hour. It's
not safe at all. But they are zooming around trying to get through there and before and
after school they are doing the same thing. I even have kids on Bacall right now who
will come down Fox Run and, then, go around. So, I really spoke way too much, didn't
I? But my -- the other thing that I just wanted to say is that Walmart -- we are talking a
lot about Walmart. I went to Walmart today. I went there shopping and I noticed on the
window -- it says it is open from 6:00 a.m. to 12:00 a.m. What? I thought Walmarts
were 24 hours a day. They are not. I went to supervisors and I asked them why is it
that you're not open 24 hours a day and they said, oh, no, none of the Walmarts,
including the one on Overland and Meridian Road, none of the Treasure Valley
Walmarts are open 24 hours a day anymore. Why is that? It's because it wasn't
profitable. They were losing money being open that late. And the other reason why is
because -- now this is people at Walmart. The supervisors at Walmart. They said it
attracted the wrong clientele. So, if Walmart, who may not be the best business model
to look at, right, but if they can figure out that it doesn't make any sense to be open 24
hours a day, why can't an Idaho company as well make that exception for this
neighborhood and not have it open 24 hours a day?
De Weerd: Can I have you summarize?
E.Hessing: Yes. So --
De Weerd: Thank you.
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E.Hessing: What we would just like is -- the other thing that the Walmart said was they
didn't have evening -- any nighttime deliveries, which WinCo said that they had. They
only deliver at 2:00, 4:00 and 6:00 in the afternoon. They hold their stock in the back
and, then, when it's time they pull it out when the store is closed and they have their
stockers there stocking in the middle of the night. There is no, you know, clientele
there. So, I don't see why that couldn't happen with WinCo. And we would -- I would be
much more supportive if that happened. But thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cole: Craig Reynolds signed up against, wishing to testify.
C.Reynolds: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Councilmembers. My name is Craig
Reynolds. 1166 West Bacall Street. And I know you're not supposed to drop names,
but I'm married to Sally, so there you go. I actually had a big presentation with
handouts and everything like that, but I think everything's been said. So, in the interest
of time I will let that go. One thing I was asked to do is clarify something from the
Meridian City Code. So, I will just read that now. From the Meridian City Code.
Business hours of operation within the C -C and C -G districts shall be limited from 6:00
o'clock a.m. to 11:00 o'clock p.m. when the property abuts a residential use or district.
Later on in the definitions from the Meridian City Code. Abut or abutting. Having a
common border with the subject property. Definition of property. A lot or parcel. The
definition of parcel. A tract of unplatted land or contiguous unplatted land held in single
ownership. So, please, if you will, remember those definitions, because I believe the
response we got was with regard to the land after it had been subdivided, which is not
the case here. So, ask you to keep that in mind. Beyond that, you know, the only -- the
three things connected through the neighborhood -- obviously, a regional use design
that's trying to fit into a C -C designation and, then, also on the same night where the
school board is meeting to discuss how to handle the overcrowding of our local schools,
to put forth a design that shows additional high density housing. I don't know how we
can consider that a responsible decision, but, anyway, thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Chris Eastman signed up against, wishes to testify.
C.Eastman: My name is Chrysanthe Eastman. I live at 1192 West Bacall Street.
Madam Mayor and City Council Members, the decision you make regarding the
proposed development of Linder Village directly impacts my family, my home, and the
quality of my life. I am asking as a resident in Meridian and a homeowner in Paramount
for you to help us bring the best Linder Village to the corner of Linder and Chinden.
When I was deciding where to purchase my home, we took time to look at the future
land map in the City of Meridian's Comprehensive Plan, which made us call the City of
Meridian to confirm. We believed that the City of Meridian would strive to enhance and
to protect the quality of our life and the residents around us. We always knew this area
would be developed, but we trusted the City of Meridian's Comprehensive Plan for this
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area to be mixed use community. Despite the fact that this application violates city
code, the zoning regulations, the City of Meridian's Comprehensive Plan, unanimous
denial from the Planning and Zoning and it lacks right now the recommended traffic
findings from ACRD, I am asking you tonight to help us reach a compromise with the
developers. As you have heard tonight, that has not happened. Little steps. Protecting
our neighbors -- protecting our neighborhood streets and limiting WinCo's operating
hours and nighttime deliveries is an absolute necessity. This area is unique, because it
has Paramount Elementary School, Heritage Middle School, and Rocky Mountain High
School in such close proximity. One of the reasons why we love living in Paramount is
because our kids can walk and ride their bikes to all their schools, like so many other
neighborhood kids around us. However, this current application has neighborhood
streets connected to Linder Village. You've heard quite a lot about that tonight. A quiet
street like Arliss or Bergman now becomes a safety issue due to the large volumes of
the high school drivers who will now cut through the neighborhood streets to access this
commercial area and I wish you guys could see the kids playing on our streets. They
are out there all the time. I'm asking WinCo to limit their nighttime operating hours and
delivery hours. WinCo does have two stores in Oregon that operate from 7:00 a.m. to
11:00 p.m. They are called Warmarts and they would fit here. There are currently three
24 hour WinCos within ten miles of this proposal Linder Village. It can be done. If there
is a nighttime emergency for any grocery items you have Ten Mile and you could pick
three 24 WinCos to shop at. Costco, who is also proposing to come into an area close
by, a residential area, is said to be willing to alter their -- their morning deliveries so they
can work with the residents. So, why should we expect anything less from WinCo. The
impact of living next to a regional 24 hour seven WinCo would criminally impact our
quality of life due to the loud noise of delivery trucks and, yes, the semi -trucks do beep
when they back up and one other consideration is that WinCo delivery trucks go up and
down Linder Road, it is not completely widened and there are at least three zones on
that route. I am hoping that WinCo would chose to be a good neighbor and alter its
current plan to be open 24 hour seven or as has been addressed before, move further
north, limit nighttime deliveries, and not connect to our neighborhood. Madam Mayor,
show the city of Eagle how much better a development can be put together on that
corner in the City of Meridian on Linder and Chinden. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. I actually think the proposal is better than what's across the
street. Just want to point that out. So, one step forward; right?
Coles: Tim Graver signed up in favor, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Graver: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Council. My name is Tim Graver. I live at 706
East Cholla Hills, Meridian. I live off Chinden. My background is I have lived here 23
years. Have kids. I live and work in Meridian. A lot has been said, so I don't want to
repeat a lot of it, but I do think the developer has made a lot of changes and I have been
to a neighborhood meeting, I went to the last Council meeting that was here in
November and I have listened to, you know, all the -- the comments and changes that
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have been made tonight and for that I do think that -- that there is enough evidence that
this can work. I remember when Eagle Road was two lanes. I didn't think it was that
great myself. So, I do like it wider and bigger and I live right off Chinden, so I have to
access Chinden on a daily basis to go to work and the other point -- I think there is an
advantage here of the developers willing to spend their own money on widening
Chinden. I think it's -- you know, I think we can take advantage of that and save
taxpayers money. So, I -- I think there is an opportunity here and for that -- for that I,
you know, respectfully want you to approve it. So thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Joe Marshall signed up against, wishing to testify.
Marshall: Joe Marshall. 5937 North Arliss Avenue. And, please, do ask me a little bit
later on why that's a bad interconnectivity, even though I'm very pro interconnectivity.
All right. So, I only have three minutes to make four points. Number one, each of you
ran for office and I am sure you all heard one major thing and it had to have been either
one, two, or three on your list and it's traffic in this valley. This is going to be your
legacy. Protect that Chinden corridor at all costs. We have screwed the pooch with
Eagle Road. All those access points. Look at the ITD website, look at the ACHD
website, look at the COMPASS report, everything says access at the half mile only.
Look at -- the City of Meridian goals clearly state do not allow this. Okay. That's point
one. Point two. If -- for fifteen years I taught land planning. If you took my introductory
course in land planning at Carnegie Mellon, required 45 seat hours. I had over a
hundred readings. If by the end of that class you told me this was mixed use you fail my
class. This is actually a very nice commercial project shoe horned in as mixed use. It's
actually much more attractive than the Fred Meyer across the street. It is. It's more
attractive than a lot of the ones we see down on Eagle Road. They tried really hard, but
they don't seem to understand what mixed use is. Mixed use actually requires a little
different product mix. You can't have your fast food places out on the Chinden
Boulevard in a mixed use. It doesn't work. That's why last time I was here I was
recommending a food hall, because it actually takes a little higher level food. They don't
have to have the face time out on Chinden. You have the -- if they sat with us we can
make a better draw than this little plaza. They could make much better use of it. It's not
very pedestrian friendly and -- okay. Point number three. WinCo. Staff told me they
would make it the Marshall rule, you can't have anything like this anywhere close to
residential, even though my house is right behind this thing I am not being NIMBY. I
spent seven years on P&Z railing against exactly this for everyone in this city. This is
wrong. And I will tell you at 11:00 o'clock at night that damn street sweeper that's
clearing up the Fred Meyers, all the way on the other side of Chinden wakes me up
every Wednesday night when it first starts up. Eventually I get back to sleep, because it
becomes a white noise, but when it first starts up it wakes me up and you think these
big trucks right behind my house, the small little berm and a little wall is going to be less
noise than that? Are you kidding me? Okay. I did talk to David Turnbull. He is more
than willing to allow access to Fox Run. I think it's because he feels it will advantage
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him down the street and he's going to come ask for a full access to Chinden. Turn him
down, too, please. Protect Chinden. I like David Turnbull. Does nice work.
De Weerd: Joe, you need to summarize.
Marshall: Am I out of time? Okay. And one last thing is, please, staff, that is one
building down there, not three. That's a hundred thousand square foot. They share
walls and insurance will tell you they will insure it as a single building, multi -tenant.
Thank you. I'm sorry. I appreciate the opportunity to remand. Thank you. Do remand,
but it really needs a major redesign. It needs a different product. Makes everything
else -- a WinCo could work here. We want to work with them. We would love a 24/7
WinCo here, but not the way this is laid out. It needs to be a mixed use product. This is
commercial shoehorned in. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thanks, Joe.
Bernt: Madam Mayor, a question.
De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: Mr. Marshall, thanks for your comments. You said that you are for a WinCo,
although previously in your statement you said that you fought against this type of, you
know, a WinCo type.
Marshall: This close to residential.
Bernt: Okay. So, my next question to you is -- and we have asked this question to
other -- others in public testimony. Where would you want it? Where would your
recommendation be?
Marshall: Actually, last time I was here I actually offered up a layout that put it out at the
corner. You know, to be honest, there are -- having done this for a living all through the
'90s and, then, taught it for another 15 years, there is a million ways to lay this out. I
could put in all kinds of places that would work for me. I could put it 45 different places
right now off the top of my head that would work for me, but that means I have got to
have a whole bunch of layers of light office, stuff that is not intense in between me and it
that will block the noise, block the light. If they would shut down at 6:00, 7:00 o'clock.
That's fine. I have got a little dance hall that's going to go in right behind me, you know,
and they will have little exhibitions on the weekend. You know, I'm all for that. That's
okay.
Bernt: Mr. Marshall, sorry to interrupt, but a question for you.
Marshall: Uh-huh.
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Bernt: If they were to move it to the corner are you saying that you would be for a 24/7
operation?
Marshall: As long as I have multiple layers of less intense use between it and me.
Bernt: Okay.
Marshall: There is a lot of ways of doing it. There is a lot of ways of doing it.
Bernt: Thank you.
Marshall: I'm not sure the corner is the best place for it. Maybe it's over towards the
center. I don't know.
Bernt: Okay. Thank you, sir.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Jeremy Schroeder signed up against, not wishing to testify. Jamie Femrick
signed up against, not wishing to testify. Wendy McKinney signed up against, wishing
to testify.
McKinney: I turn into a pumpkin at 10:00 p.m., so I'm hoping I can go through this. I'm
Wendy McKinney. I live at 1225 West Bacall Street and it would be interesting to have
everyone in the room who is on that actual map that shows the residential. Can we get
that one back for a second? I'm sorry. I just gave you my new thing. The one that
actually shows the plat with the border of the houses that are there in their plan. Yes.
That's the one. All right. If everyone whose house is actually on that map could stand
right now, please. Thank you. You can see we have wide representation here. If you
look at the percentages and you consider that there are a few people whose husband
had open art surgery on Thursday who would be here -- I spoke to her personally. This
is something that we are passionate about and we want you to basically just stick with
the rules that you have put in place. Okay. My presentation, please. Thank you. So,
I'm only going to cover the things that haven't been covered, because I know it's very
late and I respect your time. So, on slide number two there is the developer's checklist.
This is what most developers do. They follow the rules. If your plans don't fit you apply
for amendments to the Comprehensive Plan. That's what Brighton is doing. So, that's
what everyone's expected to do. Work with the Planning and Zoning Commission, get a
good development together before taking it to the City Council. Work with residents to
be a good neighbor. Work with ITD and ACHD and follow their recommendations.
Which one of these things on that checklist has this developer done? Zero. Now, you
look at the special checklist that they get. Turn in your plans as late as possible, so not
even staff has time to look at them, let alone me, because they have turned in four
plans since this started. You know, I have other things to do with my time. So do you.
Get as many variances as possible to put whatever building you want in a spot of your
choice. Push things through regardless of what Planning and Zoning has said.
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Villainize your opposition and they have done that to us. Energize your customers to
swamp the city council with e-mail. I think you noticed that. Don't wait for ITD or ACHD
information. Now I'm going to skip to the very end. This is how it will work, because it
will work. Everyone wants. Everyone wins. Number one. Wait until you have enough
information. You asked for the traffic study, you should wait for it. Have the developer
request to amend the Comprehensive Plan like everyone else does and put a CZ in the
corner where a WinCo fits. They don't want on the corner. Fine. Have them amend the
Comprehensive Plan to fit a C -G where WinCo fits. Those are your rules, not ours.
Expect the developer to work with residents. Awe, shocker. Use your commissioners.
Send it back to the Planning and Zoning. This ever changing development needs to be
looked at again in detail. Let them analyze these issues first and you will hear their
expert decision. You still get to look at it and you don't have to look at the next 7,000
e-mails. Thank you. I really appreciate your time. My husband came home at midnight
over and over and over again while I had small children at home while he worked on a
planning and zoning commission. I really, really appreciate your time. Please remand
to P&Z. Thank you. Questions? Okay.
Coles: Travis Everett signed up against, not wishing to testify. Rachel Murillo signed
up in favor, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Murillo: Thank you. My name is Rachel Murillo and I live at 2077 North Devlin Avenue.
De Weerd: Rachel, you want to pull that down towards you?
Murillo: Is that better?
De Weerd: Yes. That's perfect.
Murillo: Uh-huh. Okay. Just a few short points. Everybody over here that lives directly
in the area impacted made some good points, especially about Arliss Avenue and such.
But I really want a WinCo. I want to see this happen, just like everybody else, and I
want to see this make everybody happy I guess. So, just a few points. We are looking
at a development that's going to bring jobs from a major local business. That's a really
good thing for our community. As far as the traffic concerns, this is going to help
develop Chinden probably sooner than we would have gotten to it. So, I think that's
great. And we didn't address these issues when things like Fred Meyer and the temple
went in down there even, though we still had them then. So, why are -- why are they all
of a sudden a problem -- a major problem now? They were already a major problem.
We have got exploding growth in the City of Meridian and I think that it warrants the
need for another WinCo, you know, in between the other WinCos that we do have.
Meridian is one of the fastest growing U.S. cities and young families are moving here
and we need this access to these types of things where we live. It's -- you know, run to
the grocery store, five minutes away, that's great and I think that that's kind of why
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people move here. They want that -- maybe like a smaller town feel where they have
access to those things closer and, then, if not this, then, what? I have heard a lot of
different suggestions, especially pertaining to the WinCo in the corner here. I am
hearing people want it, you know, in this corner or in that corner, why can't it go there
and I guess we haven't heard why it can't go in another corner, but maybe is it access
for trucks to get in? That would be kind of a good question. But overall I'm -- I'm for
this. I want to see it work. I want to see these issues with connectivity in the
neighborhood addressed, though, because those are excellent points.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Murillo: Thank you.
Coles: Alicia Muhlestein signed up against, wishing to testify.
Muhlestein: Hi. I'm Alicia Muhlestein. Pretty close. 584 West Dreyfuss Street. And
most of my concerns have been addressed, which are wonderful. A couple things that I
did notice. I was at the Planning and Zoning Committee meeting when they rejected it
at first and I presented a video that showed a couple WinCos, one on Fairview --
Fairview in Boise showing the noise that was behind it, even with a berm and it had a
high wall and a bunch of trees, you could still hear the horns -- or the -- the backup
beeping. You could hear the air brakes. You could hear loading and unloading of
equipment, like slamming far back and we also checked on the WinCo -- the residents
near the WinCo on State Street in Eagle. To the east there is a road and some
businesses and there is some homes and there was a couple of people that had issues
with lights from the deliveries all night long or certain times of the night. They were
coming in and they were going through their windows, so they had to build bigger
fences. Some of them were hearing -- still hearing the noises. So, we -- I noticed that
this -- I was also at the meeting where the developer did meet with some of the
residents to present this plan and this was -- he said it was the plan he was going to
present. I also see a couple changes that he has already made. There was the
roundabout that is gone now. So, he keeps making little changes, which is fine, but we
all were concerned about the distance, of course, and the buffering here, which are the
green space and the trees. The trees are only in bloom here, what, six months, so that
will not even be a buffer for these poor residents there. I'm not in this area, I am farther,
but I can see that that will be an issue, because trees that only bloom six months out of
the year will not buffer the noise and the lights and all that coming into that corner. We
did suggest that they -- and a lot of people said it. If we have to have a large box
commercial store in a mixed use community land, that if we could, please, move that up
and buffer that with some smaller businesses to transition that noise or, you know,
lessen it -- some kind of impact it's so close to those homes. That's all I have to say.
And I was super excited when I heard that -- the suggestion to go back to P&Z and I
wholeheartedly believe that it does need to go back there, because of the changes that
were made and the changes that will hopefully be made to address all the issues.
Thank you.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Bill Wallace signed up against, not wishing to testify. Kortney Porter signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Sam Koontz signed up against --
De Weerd: You can change your mind. That's all right.
Porter: Oh, good.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Porter: Cortney Porter and I'm a 950 West Deer Crest Drive. So, I actually live on the
south side of the Paramount Subdivision and so a lot of these issues don't impact me
directly, but I feel just as ardently as I would have my back, you know, door to this
development and so I feel for all of you residents and you're not alone. I'm really
excited for a WinCo to come, though. We just moved from Virginia six months ago and
I have been so looking forward to shopping at WinCo and I drive ten minutes to go to
WinCo now and so I'm so grateful that there will be one, hopefully, even shorter around
the corner. But I think that it can be done in the right way to make everyone happy. It
seems like it's going to benefit a lot of people, not just people in Paramount, but it
seems like a lot of the -- the current proposal is asking the Paramount residents to kind
of just deal with the junk as a result of it and that junk would be the traffic on Arliss and if
you have never seen the high school students driving through there in the afternoon or
the morning, it's kind of terrifying. You know, you just grab your kids and hold them tight
and so I really just don't think having any access to that -- to that development through
our neighborhood would be a win-win. Quickly look at my notes. And as far as the 24/7
operation, I think if we put it in the right spot a lot of these noise issues and delivery
issues can be avoided, despite turning it so that the building itself blocks the noise and I
don't think Fred Meyer is going to care if they hear the deliveries in the middle of the
night or whatever. So, I want to say thank you for your time. Thank you for hearing all
of us. I know it's very late, but we have gotten a lot of energy and all our time put into
trying to solve this problem and so thanks for like having us be part of the process and
us being heard. The main point 24/7, okay, just the wrong spot and our kids should not
be hit by the poor high school students that are driving through there and will be driving
and so if we can prevent that from happening it would be great.
De Weerd: I wish I had some of your energy.
Coles: Dave Koontz signed up against, with no indication of testimony. Same for
Richard Miranda, signed up against, no indication of testimony. Alberto Maldonado sign
up against, not wishing to testify. Nathan Wheeler signed up in favor, not wishing to
testify. Stephanie Robinson signed up against, not wishing to testify. Michael and
Sarah Urberaga signed up against, not wishing to testify. Doug Jones signed up as
neutral, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
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Jones: Good evening, Mayor.
De Weerd: If you will state your name and address.
Jones: Doug Jones. I live at 1274 West Barrymore Drive. I'm one block off of Bacall
and one house back from Arliss and first let me compliment you, Mayor and the Council,
for taking the testimony and listening. I served on a planning and zoning board in
another part of the state in a previous part of my life. I spent 20 years in elected public
office in this state. I know what it is you're going through sitting up there. So, thank you
for your time, your patience, the staff's patience, to work through this tonight and listen.
Councilman Cavener's motion was premature, but still good, and that's what I would
recommend. What you have heard tonight is concerned citizens and they have come
and they have spent their long evening here to tell you why they are concerned. Traffic.
Noise. Twenty-four hour operation. Poor design. It's a better design than the one
across the road at Eagle, but still not as good as it could be. You only have one shot at
getting this right. Once you have approved it and once those buildings are put in place,
none of us here will live long enough to see that change. So, take your time. Do it right.
I suggest you remanded it back to Planning and Zoning, because they have both the
time and the expertise to work just on this own piece. Let them bring it back to you
when it's ready. But it's not ready yet. So, thank you for your time, your effort. Please
remanded it back. And, Madam Mayor, I would be more than willing to volunteer my
time and effort to participate and try to get this right, because I live in this neighborhood
as well. The traffic is a serious problem. You have got to deal with ACHD and you don't
have their report yet. They don't drive up and down Arliss. They don't watch the high
school kids drive up and down Arliss. I do. It is a problem there. So, thank you for your
time and effort and I'd be happy to answer any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay. Thank you.
Jones: Thank you.
Coles: I think we have made it through all the sign-ups, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Maybe the sheet that was the wrong sheet. You were going to just
get your opportunity. Well, why don't you come on up. If you will state your name and
address for the record.
Blackwelder: My name is Jennifer Blackwelder. I live at 847 West Barrymore.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Blackwelder: I moved here in the end of July. I came here from Chandler, Arizona,
where they put a WinCo in our backyard. They said they would never put a 24 hour in
our neighborhood. They promised us everything. They said you won't hear the noise.
The trees -- oh, they are going to make a difference. Nothing made a difference. And
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what the people in here don't understand is the crime that that 24 hour brought and if
they are proposing to let these people drive through our neighborhood, guess what, we
have these people driving through our neighborhood. I woke up many times with beer
cans on our street, because people were drinking at WinCo in the middle of the night.
You can buy beer 24 hours; right? That's what they were doing. They were driving
through a neighborhood. Nobody cared. They made so many promises to make sure
that our neighborhood was safe and it wasn't. I'm pretty sure that the police officer can
probably tell you how many of them sit in our neighborhood right now just trying to catch
the kids speeding going to school. What is that going to do when access is granted to
everybody, who is going to use it just to go to WinCo that's 24 hours? I don't care if it's
on one corner, another corner, whatever, 24 hours is not what we need. I live in
Paramount. I hear the cars all the time. I do hear all this stuff that over in Fred Meyers.
Decisions you guys make here are the ones that are going to impact us in Paramount,
who spend a ton of money to have our houses. I know you have mentioned many times
you would be thankful to have it. I welcome you to buy a house in our neighborhood
and see how much you would like it, because it is guaranteed a lot of the people -- they
don't want it. We want what's safe for our family. We have a pond there that the kids
go and play at. It's at the main road. I live right off Cave Creek. I listen to the traffic all
the time. I worry about my daughter, who is 17 years old, going to school and not being
hit by a car and that's just from fellow classmates. My son, he is eight years old, do I
need to worry about him from here on out every single time he wants to go to
elementary school? That road should never be allowed to be open to the public. That
is Paramount's neighborhood. We live there. There is a sign at the high school that
says this is not an access road. This is for Paramount only. So, why are we giving
permission for WinCo and everybody else that's going in there, to be able to use our
roads to make our neighborhood unsafe? I don't really understand it. I'm trying. I
asked our realtor what was going in there before my husband and I purchased our
house. We were told I don't know. The second question I asked will they be going
through our neighborhood. Who would let anybody drive through your neighborhood to
get to another thing. We don't even allow the school. Rocky is not even supposed to.
They haven't withheld out either. Think about our neighborhood.
De Weerd: Who was your realtor that says a stub street will not go through?
Blackwelder: You actually know her. Yeah. And there is a sign that says that Hamilton
cannot -- or not Hamilton that's the other -- that Rocky cannot turn right into our
neighborhood. I can take a picture --
De Weerd: That's a public street. Yeah.
Blackwelder: They posted it. The principal. Every time we have an issue with the
school they say, you know what, we have worked on it. We have actually had
meetings, we have told the children do not cut through your neighborhood. If that was
the case, why do we have police officers in our neighborhood at all times trying to stop
the kids from using our neighborhoods across the street.
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De Weerd: I don't think they are violating any law. What we will look for is the
speeders, you know, if they are doing something that is against the law. But we -- we
can't -- and, lieutenant, correct me if I'm wrong, but --
Stokes: Yeah. Mayor, we can only enforce the -- we can only enforce the law on a
public street, which would be speeding or reckless driving, inattentive driving, that kind
of thing.
De Weerd: And I'm sure that is what they are looking for.
Blackwelder: And we have a lot of it, so it's adding to it and to make it even worse.
That's -- that's a question. I mean we all want to know. I spent a great deal of money
on my house. I didn't buy it to have to deal with this. I actually don't think anybody here
-- and I know -- I don't honestly care about the feelings of the people who don't live in
Paramount, who this isn't actually going to affect, but the people that it's going to affect
are the ones who live there. I mean the builder said that the tiny little bottleneck that's
off the Chinden, I don't know anybody who's going to call that tiny. If you don't travel it I
welcome you, every day at 5:00 o'clock, get home to your family in time. You won't.
And adding this is only going to make it worse. Why can't they fix Chinden before the
development even starts? Because you're telling -- asking us to deal with it. Deal with
the traffic that's already there. Deal with the semi -trucks that are going to be bringing in
all that building material. All the semi -trucks they are going to be laying just mounds of
cement that is going to be here. We have to deal with all of that on top of dealing with
all the traffic. Why can't that be widened before this project even starts? That's it.
De Weerd: Thank you. Did you find that other sheet?
Coles: I did find the other sheet.
De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: So, I will run through these names and if this is your item you can come and
testify. So, Donna Smith against, not wishing testify. Fred Smith against, not wishing to
testify. Andy Roman in favor, wishing to testify. Tony Brownlee against, wishing to
testify.
Brownlee: I'm Tony Brownlee, 797 Barrymore. Madam -- Madam Mayor and City
Council, someone said earlier that -- why people move here. It's more of why people
move back here. I grew up within two miles -- we had a family farm of where I live right
now and was away for 23 years professionally and going to university and we looked --
my wife and I had children, we looked for the best area and as you said yourself, the
premier place in Idaho when we moved back 13 years ago we felt was Paramount and
we -- I had been burned in the past and so we -- we looked into what was going to go
there and we were very -- very comfortable with what the future development plans
were, because we trusted to you all into holding to what that -- that plan was and it didn't
involve 85,000 square foot 24 hour shopping centers that backed up to residential. I
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noticed it earlier when they drew a line between the corner of WinCo and -- and the
nearest property, it wasn't the nearest proposed property, nor was it from the loading
dock or the other corner across Linder. There was -- those people that are there, the --
your own staff with your Planning suggested moving the WinCo to that other corner -- to
the corner that was up at Linder and Chinden and I believe that Councilman Borton has
asked a lot of people why -- or what -- what would you like worse or what would you like
better, 24 hours or more a smaller building. Neither of those options fit with your plan.
You may not have sat on the Council at that time, but neither of those fit with your plan
and so I don't know why you have to choose feast or famine -- or -- you know. I -- I
don't understand that. Stick with your plan. Stick -- stick with what it's zoned for. If -- if
the light doesn't -- is going to slow things down too much, maybe your darn store is too
big and that -- that whole shopping center is too big to accommodate what this thing
was planned for when it was all laid out. Is Chinden a problem? Chinden is a problem
and none of us want Chinden turned into another Eagle Road. I learned to ride my bike
on Eagle Road. I wouldn't think of that now. It wasn't paved at the time. But I wouldn't
send my child to play there now. I worry about if this thing goes in of -- of the cross -
traffic coming through of the light, pollution of the -- noise pollution, the smells from --
from their garbage that's coming through there and my little girl's window that -- that
things are going to wake her up during the night. I worry about that. That's not why I
moved back to Meridian. Could have lived anyplace else. I chose here. I thank you
very much for time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Sheldon -- I apologize, I can't read the last name. Weedon perhaps. Against
wishing to testify. With that I think I have made it through. At least the ones that I
indicated from the previous item that wanted to testify.
De Weerd: Is there anyone who has -- yes, sir. Come on up. If you will, please, state
your name and address for the record.
Humphreys: Thank you very much for letting me testify, even though I didn't sign up.
Glen Humphreys. 6880 North Pira Avenue, Springwing Greens. I don't live right next
door to this, but I live about a mile up Chinden Road, which for all intents and purposes
is no longer a state highway, it's more of a boulevard. We forgot the elephant in the
room, which is Costco about a mile down the road, which they anticipate will add an
additional 300 car trips just to the intersection of Ten Mile and Chinden. I heard today --
or tonight some comments about the widening of the road. We have been told that
Chinden will be widened from Ten Mile to Black Cat in the first phase prior to opening of
Costco. We were also told at our meeting that was held at Challenger School that the
other portion of Chinden will be widened from Linder to Locust Grove prior to the
opening of the WinCo. I'm hearing tonight that it -- probably that's not what the plan is.
That's what we were being sold at the other end of the street. I don't think the
developer has got both stories currently straight. The traffic flow as you will know on
Chinden is terrible. We are adding more and more -- as I told the Mayor once before --
this small bucket is Chinden and we keep dumping gallons and gallons of more water
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onto it and is pouring over to the residential area that these folks are going to have to
deal with when it starts to pour all over the edge of Chinden. I can't express enough -- I
spent 35 years in law enforcement. I know what a state highway is. Chinden is no
longer a state highway, it is a small, two lane feeder road in some areas and in some
years it's widened up to four lanes. We are talking at a -- basically a boulevard here.
It's not a state highway. I'm sure that you're all aware of that at this point. It's
designated a state highway. Chinden is not a state highway. Traffic is the major, major
concern that we are all going to deal with. Everyone here. And I feel for the folks over
there in Paramount, because I will soon have a Costco across the street for me and as
you also know, it was never planned for a Costco. Again, they are trying to revise the
main plan that the city decided years ago and they also want to get it all revised and get
it all changed, so they can put a Costco in. Same problem. Different location a mile
down the road. Thank you very much for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone who didn't sign up that would like to provide
testimony? Yes, sir. Good evening.
McKinney: Good evening, Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm David McKinney. I live
at 1225 West Bacall Street in the Paramount Subdivision. I know it's late. I will be very
brief. I'm opposed to the project -- not as a whole, but in the way it's been presented
and I think it needs some major changes and, therefore, it ought to go back to Planning
and Zoning. But there is one item -- and let me just say I more or less agree with what
Sally Reynolds and Andrea Carroll and, of course, my wife and others have said. There
are lots of issues with the project and also, as Joe Marshall mentioned, the issue with
the WinCo is there needs to be adequate buffering between the WinCo loading docks
and the adjacent residential property. So, there are a hundred ways to do it, but so long
as it's moved further away and other uses, like professional office, things that are less
intense, buildings in between WinCo loading docks and the residences, that's the most
important thing in my mind. With those sorts of changes I would be in favor of it. But
there is one additional item that hasn't been mentioned. The applicant hasn't requested
and the city hasn't granted an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan. Consequently,
the applicant is proceeding under the current Comprehensive Plan as it stands now.
Now, the Comprehensive Plan, which includes the future land use map, designates this
site, approximately 31 percent, as medium density residential and the remainder as
mixed use community. That medium density residential of 31 percent works out to
about 24 acres and the remainder is about 54 acres. Now, mixed use community
requires at least 20 percent of that property be residential. Well, 20 percent of the 54
acres is about another 11 acres. So, all together that would be the 24 acres that are
currently designated to be medium density residential, plus another 11 acres, that works
out to about 35 acres. What the applicant is actually proposing to do here is less than
17 acres. Less than half of what the current plan calls for. Now, those sorts of things
can be done if they seek an amendment to the Comprehensive Plan. They haven't
done that. Without that change this Council cannot approve the plan, because it simply
doesn't meet the city ordinances for at least that additional reason. The staff report on
this project has said that the plan that the applicant is presenting meets -- is consistent
with the Comprehensive Plan. That statement is demonstrably false and a false factual
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statement in the staff report for this project does not give the Council a legal basis to
approve what's being presented. So, that reason, in addition to all the other concerns,
means that this Council should send it back. I want a development here. I want a
development that's consistent with what I expected when I moved in, because property
owners -- adjacent property owners have a legal interest -- a legal realistically legally
enforceable expectation that what's going to happen is what the city presents as likely,
unless or until legal processes and public processes are undertaken to make a change
and I urge this Council to do that. Thank you.
De Weerd: So, Mr. Nary, I hear the question raised over and over on whether this
application is consistent with the Comprehensive Plan. Can you clear the record on
that?
Nary: Sure. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so in your staff report your
planning staff has made that analysis on comparing the Comprehensive Plan goals and
objectives with what is being proposed and there is a lot of give and take and you will
note that in the report. There was some discussion about some things that staff didn't
agree with and suggested more and, again, it is a concept plan and I wouldn't disagree
with Mr. McKinney that it is -- it is a requirement and responsibility of the Council to find
that it is compatible with the Comprehensive Plan. At the end of the day it also, then,
has to be -- and the court is going to require that it comply with all of your codes. So, it
is within this Council's purview to make that determination. Do you agree with the staff
report and the findings that the staff has proposed that says this does meet the goals
and objectives as required by the Comprehensive Plan. That's within your preview to
both evaluate your code, evaluate the analysis that has been provided and that the
staff's review of this from both the Planning and Zoning staff, the Planning and Zoning
Commission on that particular point that there are adequate findings within your comfort
of -- of your interpretation as a Council of your code. Again, at the end of the day the
code is what controls here and the goals and objectives of the Comprehensive Plan are
what the city aspires to achieve through those ordinances. So, again, it is still your
interpretation as we have talked about that a number of times, I have been reviewing
the staff comments and, again, they are all consistent with prior applications, prior
approvals of this Council and prior Councils as to how the -- both the Comprehensive
Plan has been interpreted and how you have applied the existing codes to those
applications and all of that is contained within the staff report. But, again, it's -- it's all
within your preview on your interpretation and, again, the -- you have heard a number of
times what your ultimate decision is on whether to approve, deny, remand, make
amendments, make changes, make requirements of the applicant. That's still all within -
- within your desire, your direction to do, but there is certainly more than the findings
contained in this report from the staff, from the analysis of that, that is consistent with
our prior findings of both, again, this Council, as well as prior Councils. So I hope that
answers your question. But I mean we certainly are -- we certainly have enough
information here for you to make that call.
De Weerd: Can you summarize?
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Nary: Yes. The answer is yes. There is enough from the staff for you to make the
finding if that's your direction.
De Weerd: Sonya, do you have anything you want to add?
Allen: Madam Mayor, Council, staff's analysis is in the staff report. Mr. Nary is correct,
there were some things that staff felt were consistent with the Comprehensive Plan and
some things that needed to be changed. The analysis is still there. Based on the
Council's comments at the last hearing, staff prepared conditions of approval, because it
sounded like Council is relatively okay with going forward with that plan, the last one
that was submitted. So, it's -- it's entirely -- if you wish to backtrack and remand this
back to the Commission, staff will review the whole application over again and -- and
provide a new recommendation to Commission if that's what the Council desires.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there any further testimony? Yes, sir. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Minatre: My name is Dirk Minatre. I live at 6864 North Pira in Spurwing Green also.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Minatre: What's the hurry to kick this ball wildly down the road without having all the
information. As I say -- and they said it before. You got reports that are still waiting to
come in. Chinden is a joke. It really is a mess. And I can tell you because I drive it
enough during different hours of the day to know that I want to avoid it most of the time.
We have got Bainbridge building now. We have got a new subdivision going behind us.
We have got another subdivision going in Springwing and we have got, you know,
Bridgewater Park and it just goes on and on and all the subdivisions are going to
continually throw more traffic onto Chinden. The state doesn't have a resolution to this
road quickly. You want to put another big shopping center in there and it's going to
have a lot more impact I think on traffic overall than -- that we are expecting -- than we
even think. I think just take the time. Be responsible. Get the reports in. Do what you
need to do. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Anyone else who wishes to testify? Okay. Would the
applicant like to respond?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Members of the -- excuse me. Madam Mayor, Members of the
Council, let me add my voice to the chorus of people who admire your dedication and
the very late hour that you are willing to work on these projects and speaking of that,
there is fatigue and I hope that the fatigue simply from listening to testimony that we
have had tonight doesn't adversely influence the Council's decision, not by virtue of the
content of that testimony, which is important, that's what makes, frankly, our democracy
in our country work, but, rather, the time that it's taken to get us to this point. So, I
guess a little pep talk is stick with us, we would like to get through this and get a -- have
a decision.
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De Weerd: I think you could take a lesson from the one gal.
Howell: Yeah.
De Weerd: -- you know, and --
Howell: I don't have that energy either, so -- what I would like to do, Madam Mayor and
Council, is run through some comments that are probably a little bit more prepared and,
then, address at the very end of my time some of the topics that came up during the
testimony that I think is important to respond to. But first in terms of this project itself
and where we came to today, with the plan that is before you, we very painstakingly
took into account the feedback and concerns that was expressed at Planning and
Zoning, that was expressed at the November 21 meeting before this Council, that was
expressed by staff in the staff report that is concluded and that's what led to the
submittal that was made with the revisions to this plan on January 5 and the staff report
-- the staff had time to review that and their comments and their report was not issued
until January 12th. So, there was some comments that maybe they only had a few days
to review and it was submitted at the last minute. It was submitted fully in conformance
with what Meridian's processes and procedures require and staff did have the period of
time that they are allowed in which to respond. So, that's the system we are all dealing
with and I think it was a mischaracterization to say they only had a couple of days to do
that and I think it's even a more gross mischaracterization to say somehow the
developer has been dragging his feet and submitting things at the very last minute and
demonizing, I just think that's, frankly, unfair and just not true. We followed the process
that the city has established. There were a number of specific concerns that we took
away from the last public meeting and the public testimony. The first of this is a lack of
detail on pedestrian and vehicular interconnectivity and I think we have addressed that
in this submittal with the very detailed plans that have been made. The concept site
plan has been revised to show increased interconnectivity and workability and the
circulation plan incorporates some of the suggestions that we received not only from
staff and the public comment, but also from ACHD. There has been concern expressed
about the large size of the buildings and the arrangement on the site in proximity to
adjacent residential properties. Most notably in this case the WinCo facility has been
moved further north and further west in response to those concerns and someone can
say, well, I can throw a rock further than it's been moved. But the reality is we have
listened to those comments and we have moved it -- not just for the sake of moving it,
but to address the specific concerns that was expressed by City Council, by staff, and
by the public and one thing --
De Weerd: Okay. I'm sorry, I'm going to have to interrupt you. Mr. Marshall, would you
stop it. You need to sit down. Please. You are distracting and we can't listen to the
summary here, so -- I'm sorry. You were on Planning and Zoning, Joe. Okay. I
apologize. But I was trying to pay attention to what you were saying and I was reading
his sign language and it just doesn't work, so --
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Howell: Madam Mayor, thank you. I was oblivious to that. But I'm glad that -- if it was
distracting you --
De Weerd: I wish I was.
Howell: -- you raised it, so -- with respect to the WinCo facility itself, there have been a
number of very specific changes that are designed to address the very comments that
the public and this City Council identified before and that's the direction of the loading
dock. Staff asked that the building be rotated so that the loading dock faces Linder.
The building has been rotated and moved further towards Linder such that the loading
dock directly faces Linder. The only way to make that more face Linder is to rotate the
building even further and make it point due north, in which case, then, you have the
front of the building and all of the parking and all of the lights in the parking more directly
impacting the residential area. Right now the building and the side of the building
blocks all of that, together with the additional uses that are interspersed between the
existing residential uses. We have added residences between them. We have added
work -- work -live locations between there. We have moved in everything that the
Comprehensive Plan aspires to have and, sure, somebody's going to say and the public
has said, well, that's not enough. We want more of that. We want more of that. Well,
the Comprehensive Plan doesn't require a specific quantum. It requires that you have a
transition and a buffer area. We have the transition and the buffer area and how much
can you say you need more than that? We have met that need. We have met the
public concern and we have met the concern of City Council in that regard. I want to
take a little bit of time to talk about the whole Chinden Boulevard issue and traffic,
because traffic is a concern and anybody that's lived in this community -- and I have
lived here my entire life and we all know the traffic is a concern. This development
alone is not going to fix Chinden. It's not going to fix Chinden to the east. It's not going
to fix Chinden to the west. We are doing I think more than our fair share by adding the
lanes to Chinden that we are adding, which are taking away from the northern part of
this parcel that no other development up and down Chinden is doing. This is a
responsible community oriented developer that has listened to the feedback from this
Council and from the community to do those tasks and I wish we could wave a magic
wand and say we will fix it from Glenwood to Caldwell, but that's not going to happen
and some of the public comment -- I think that Mr. Humphreys' comments to say that
while Chinden is no longer a state highway, it's really a boulevard, maybe sadly is the
truth, but for purposes of jurisdiction it is a state highway and that's something we all
deal with in our communities where we have other jurisdictions responsible for
roadways in our communities and in this case it's ITD that has the responsible --
responsibility for Chinden and ITD has submitted letters that are in the record that
indicate they are comfortable with the development we are doing, they agree to the
changes that we are proposing, they recommend signalization of Bergman when
warranted at Bergman and Chinden for this development and I know that we addressed
this at length in the last City Council meeting about why we are in this situation with this
parcel to begin with and why we can't put access at the half mile. We have already
been told, no, we can't have access at the half mile. We don't have access to Fox Run.
The owner of that development has told us no repeatedly. We would love to do that, but
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we don't have that and we can't force them to do it and I don't think anybody has any
interest in trying to have eminent domain to compel that. So, we just have that access.
That is why we are here asking for the variance and meeting every one of the three
conditions for the variance and those -- that information is in the record. A couple of
other things before I run out of time for my rebuttal. The buffer that we placed in there
has been inaccurately described as just some trees. There are at least three buffer
walls of varying height and composition between any residential use and the WinCo
building, including an additional buffer wall that is directly adjacent to the loading dock.
There is another buffer wall there. So, we have met those kind of concerns. The
access right along Chinden Boulevard that I wanted to specifically mention, the three
conditions for the variance, it must not be a special right or privilege that isn't otherwise
allowed in the district. We have provided in our initial submittal letter dated November
14th that's in the record of a host of other specific examples that are in this exact same
circumstance and that that -- that change has been allowed. It relieves an undue
hardship. That undue hardship is not of our making, because we don't have access to
the Fox Run intersection and this parcel is otherwise fully landlocked in the northeast
corner and partially landlocked all along Chinden and it's not detrimental to the public
health, safety and welfare and I want to specifically mention something that is in the
record from the staff's report that -- that really establishes that. First staff notes that due
to the extendage of frontage on Chinden sole access to this site via Linder and the
existing residential stub streets would be difficult and inefficient and they go on to say
that staff specifically finds -- and this is in Exhibit D to the staff report. Staff specifically
finds that if the highway -- if Chinden is widened to four lanes as intended, as we have
indicated through the STAR funding, the proposed access shouldn't be detrimental to
the public health, safety, and welfare if appropriate improvements are constructed as
determined by ITD. So, even though staff in the report recommended denial of the
variance, because they can't make the required findings, they have already told you,
those findings are there. Follow what ITD says to do with this and it will meet the
requirements of public health and safety. So, I see my time is up, I want to be
respectful of the time we have all been here, I would urge that this -- this project be
approved as in its current iteration. The concept of sending this back to Planning and
Zoning really doesn't accomplish anything. First, it doesn't accomplish any additional
changes. None of the testimony that you have heard tonight says what would be
different at Planning and Zoning than what you have heard here. What would be
different? Nothing would be different at Planning and Zoning. The same issues, the
same staff, the same code, the same comprehensive plan. These are the changes we
are dealing with tonight and I think it meets all of the concerns and comments that have
been expressed previously. We would urge its approval. I would certainly stand for any
questions that the Council might have and certainly indicate that we are willing to
provide to you any additional information or facts that you may require before you close
the public meeting to make sure you have got all the information you need to make a
decision. Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, do you have questions for the applicant or any of those that
provided testimony?
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Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Ken, you mentioned that the developer says no
regarding Fox Run. Do you mind naming the developer and see if there is any
opportunity for further discussion there before we call that done?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Little Roberts, it is Brighton. That's the -- the
owner there. We have had repeated conversations with them and they have said, no, I
don't think so. They -- they aren't willing to provide that access. I know it's sprinkled
throughout the public record. There is some testimony -- or not testimony, some staff
report -- staff comments I think that says, well, those discussions are ongoing and we
hope they would bear fruit and so do we. Those discussions have been ongoing for
months and months and months and months, if not years. They have been going on for
a long time and we have not gotten anywhere and to ask us to wait forever until
someone decides to give us access I don't think it's fair, nor is it in keeping with our
processes and procedures. So, I would love it if we had access, it doesn't appear we
are going to get it.
Little Roberts: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And I understand things change and I won't hold you to this, but as of now kind
of what's your anticipated timeline between -- I understand you had a little bit of a
comment on -- on the timeline of the roads, so between the lay of WinCo and the other
structures and kind of what's your cast at the moment?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I think the best guess that we have is that
if we were approved and can commence once we -- because I'm sure it would be
approved with the conditions of ITD and ACHD reports and compliance with whatever
reports they may have. I think we are probably looking at construction not starting
anytime until very late, probably, in 2018 -- fall of 2018 and I think we would commence
moving thereafter as -- as quickly as we could and the plan is that whatever gets
constructed and approved is going to have to be constructed and approved kind of
simultaneously with the changes that are made on Chinden. So, I think at the earliest
we are probably looking at 2019 -- probably late in 2019. Now, yes, you know, I -- there
is a lot of moving parts here, but we would like to get moving as quickly as we can. We
have been working on this project for a very very long time.
De Weerd: I guess I would ask if you had -- if the developer to your east worked with
you with the landing area or this stacking area, would that work? I think that ITD, this
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development -- Brighton did get together and talk about it, if I'm correct, but does that
work? Can you work -- is that designed to make it work at the half mile?
Howell: Madam Mayor, we have been down that road a lot and I think -- I'm sure I will
be corrected if that's not right -- yeah, we could work with that, but we are getting
indications that there isn't that approval to allow us to have that access. I know we
would all like that, but I don't think that's in the cards and this is -- we know we can do
what is before you and that's what we are asking to be approved.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council? Okay.
Howell: I forgot one thing, if I could beg an indulgence to have about a minute to talk
about one particular issue.
De Weerd: Council? Okay.
Howell: This is the issue of the 24 hour usage on this site. As your counsel has told
you, as developed this site will not abut. Therefore, as developed this site is eligible,
under current zoning standards, for 27/7 operation. That's what the current -- that's
what the MUC would do for this project and that's what the zoning and use chart allows.
There has been this issue raised, both in written testimony and very late in public
testimony, that somehow the law requires that because of the definition of property in
your planning documents in the city code, that we are required to apply for a CUP prior
and I think that's a gross mischaracterization of what your city code requires. The
approval for this site is to be given as it is to be developed, not as it is today. It makes
no sense to say you have to get a CUP for an RUT use property and, then, later transfer
that to the MUC zoning. That simply makes no sense under the code. It's a very
sophistic reading of Meridian City Code that I don't think any court would uphold and I
think it's contrary to the advice you're getting from your own counsel as to what is
required for this site. This site as zoned for MUC would be eligible for 24/7 operations
and we have done as much as possible as we can to mitigate those by rotating the
building, sound walls, barriers, berms, all of that -- things that we have all talked about
to mitigate that impact on the adjacent residential needs. It is eligible for 24/7. Thank
you. Thank you for the indulgence.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I will ask you one question -- was one of the legal ones that came up late, but,
first, a comment I think. I think the public has provided great input and has been
receptive to the discussion today and an earlier meeting, but one of the things that I
think is important to note -- we always watch everyone and their reaction and, quite
frankly, appreciate your response, Mr. Slocum, and as you're hearing difficult comments
from the public often you are taking veracious notes and have a clear intention to try
and make something work here and that's noticed and appreciated. One of the legal
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questions that came up, which was interesting, rose late with regards to the
Comprehensive Plan and the mixed use community requirement that -- that notes the
20 percent portion of that development area needs to be residential. The staff report
actually does mention that as well, that obligation to be compliant with that provision of
the mixed use community and, then, I had forgotten the report also notes that the
portion that is proposed to be mixed use residential -- or medium density residential is
approximately seven acres less than the future land use map. I think Mr. McKinney was
trying to reference those as being, perhaps, a basis that might make this proposal
inconsistent with the Comprehensive Plan and necessitate -- and Mr. Nary commented
on it, but the mixed use community portion clearly doesn't have 20 percent residential
within it. Is that a problem?
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, no, I don't think it's a problem. I don't think
it's a problem for a variety of reasons. First, it's not a problem -- as your counsel has
indicated to you. Staff report did note that was not an issue with this project and I don't
think that -- and you do have the information in front of you from which you can
conclude that it meets your Comprehensive Plan as your aspirational document. The
second issue is while Mr. McKinney's argument was pretty clearly presented, I think he
misrepresented what residential uses are in this site. If you see the block that's in front
of you with the MUC area in the medium density residential area, you will note -- if we
can now go back to the plot of the project, Sonya, we can go back to the plot. There we
go. Thank you. You will note that there is a big chunk of this residential that is
incorporated into the area that is the MUC area, not -- it's extended over from where just
the medium density residential area is in place. So, I think we comply with that. I think
we comply with it as a matter of fact and I think we comply with it as a matter of what
your staff report indicates we comply with.
Borton: Okay. Madam Mayor? A quick follow up. Sorry about that. Quick follow up.
So, is it -- is it confirming that the -- the mixed use community necessitates the 20
percent within it, but the -- the portion just below the mid anchor, one, two and three,
satisfies that 20 percent requirement or -- I'm not following.
Howell: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, I think a portion of that residential area
does satisfy it. If you're asking me to do the exact calculation for you, I'm going to tell
you I can't do that. So, I'm going to have to have Craig come up and address that issue
for you. I think my point is it -- it does comply in that your staff report indicates that it
does comply and it meets the standards that are required for this application. You have
that information in front of you from which you can draw that conclusion and, you know,
if somebody wants to go file an appeal and argue about that in court, well, it's the old
saying, if you have got a piece of paper and filing fee, then, God bless you, you can file
an action, so --
Borton: That's helpful. Thank you.
De Weerd: Sorry, Dean. You never want to upset Dean.
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Howell: I'm beginning to understand that.
De Weerd: In a letter dated the 16th, Mr. Brighton -- or Mr. Brighton. Mr. Turnbull
mentions that there was a meeting talking about a backage road and how that could
connect to Fox Run and that he was open to -- to that in meeting the needs of this
development.
Howell: I'm sorry, Madam Mayor, what -- the date of the letter again?
De Weerd: It's the 16th. Today.
Howell: Today?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Howell: I have not seen that letter, so --
De Weerd: You can have my copy. I just -- I just got it before the meeting if you want it.
Howell: I can't comment on that -- that letter as I -- as I have not seen it and I certainly
didn't participate in that meeting, so I can't tell you that. But it is important to note that
as part of our development with the collector road on the southern portion that goes
across and, then, up above, there is a connection that we have left, if we do have
access in the future and we can connect, we are able to do that and so to hear Mr.
Turnbull say he's open to that, I think, first, that's different than saying I agree to it. He's
been open to the discussions we have had all along, but he's not agreed to it. We have
provide -- provided the ability that, yeah, if we do have that access in the future we can
connect to it. I'm sorry I can't answer your -- what appears to be your question about
what that conversation was about, because I wasn't a part of it.
De Weerd: Sorry. I just was reading the letter.
Howell: Well -- and I understand, Madam Mayor, but, I'm sorry, I can't comment on --
on the letter, I have not read it --
De Weerd: Okay.
Howell: -- and I certainly didn't see it before coming here tonight.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council? Thank you.
Howell: Again, thank you all.
De Weerd: Any other comment?
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Allen: Madam Mayor, Council, if I may clarify something. On the 20 percent residential
that keeps coming up, staff does not necessarily have an issue with this property
providing 20 percent of this site as residential. The reason why is because we look at
the overall mixed use designation on the comp plan that's before you -- it's the brown
area and if you will notice -- so, this property that's before you, this yellow part right here
and this brown part -- okay. If you see all the property to the corner along the frontage
of Chinden is also designated mixed use -- clear to the -- Meridian Road -- actually east
of Meridian Road. If you remember, we do have a recently constructed assisted living
facility that Brighton constructed here at Paramount Veranda and, then, also an age
restricted single family detached and attached residential development here. So,
overall -- if you look at the overall area there is -- there is more than 20 percent of the
overall mixed use designated area with residential use. So, staff's not necessarily
opposed to the -- not -- not so much residential on this portion. I just wanted to clarify.
De Weerd: Thank you for that clarification. Council, any other questions for staff?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I move we close the public hearing an Item 9-D.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: In light of this letter -- I mean this letter makes it clear that -- that Brighton is --
is willing to connect it, not just wanting to talk about it, but the letter says there -- had a
conversation with ACHD and ITD that they are willing to connect it to Fox Run and if
that's at all a possibility that's the way it should be. That was kind of a first time here for
me not -- to disapprove a project, but I move we remand H-2017-0088 to Planning --
back to Planning and Zoning.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to remand this application back to Planning
and zoning. Any discussion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I love it as it is, but with that connection to Fox Run and without that light.
Wanted that to be clear.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, when we have a motion to remand back do we do it in its entirety?
Do we do it to certain points of -- can it be as broad or as narrow -- I guess seeking
direction.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so you can do it either way. I mean you
can remand the entire thing back -- the only thing I would clarify is that Madam Mayor
read this letter. Is it in the record? Okay. Because I don't see it here in this -- in what
I'm looking at, so I just wanted to make sure it was in the record.
Coles: It is. It's listed under Brighton Corporation. It was put in at 4:09 this afternoon.
Nary: Okay.
Coles: I received it at 4:06.
Nary: Okay. So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, you can remand the
entire project back for review. You can remand it back for a specific purpose if you
wish. Either -- either one is in your purview, so ---
De Weerd: Procedural question? Okay. Council has no issues.
Howell: The procedural question is -- is whether those are all the options and for an
item that entered the public record unbeknownst to I think anyone, except perhaps the
City Council, it seems to me that another option, as a matter of procedure, would also
be for a deferral, so that we can understand that without having to go back and start
over at Planning and Zoning and so I think that perhaps I'm asking is there another
option, simply to defer and place this over on the calendar to a later City Council
hearing, rather than the binary choice being send it back to -- send it back to Planning
and Zoning. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, if I could field that? My concern is -- I mean judging by the
plainness of the letter this connection can happen and if you were to make that
connection, the additional changes that would require would mean there is no way I
have the votes to make that happen without sending it back to Planning and Zoning
anyway. So, you're going to save time by doing it now I think.
De Weerd: Any further discussion on the -- the motion?
Bernt: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Bernt.
Bernt: I want to -- I want to thank the developer and his team for coming this evening
and spending time with us. Your project has gotten better and appreciate it. I also
wanted to thank all of the people from the surrounding area and I'm grateful for your
voice, whether you are for or whether you are against. This is -- this type of process is
what makes me so grateful for city government. You guys come, you guys make --
have a voice, we listen, and we make decisions and I want to thank you for that. It's a
big deal and I appreciate your time. I personally believe that there is -- there is just too
many moving parts to approve this tonight and too many unanswered questions,
specifically with ACHD and the report. We were elected to be prudent and to make
prudent decisions based upon our city -- our wonderful city that we live in and I don't
believe that we would be making a prudent decision at this time to have it go forward.
With that said, I am in support of remanding it back to Planning and Zoning, so they can
look at this and continue this process to make sure that -- to get to the very best
development and application we can get. So, that's my opinion.
De Weerd: If there is no further comment --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Yes, we are sending this back and partially due to the fact that Fox Run will
work as -- as an intersection light to get in, but also I hope that you really consider the
comments that you heard tonight that there were some other big issues that were
brought up with Arliss and the safety of that road, as well as either the -- the location of
the WinCo building and the 24 hour access. I don't think that is going to go away
overnight by ignoring what the community members are saying. So, you're going to be
moving some stuff around anyway, really take a deep look at this again and see if there
is any way that you can make this happen -- this is a great project, but make it happen
in a way that is kind to the neighbors and I'm not saying -- there is a lot of stuff out here
and I'm not saying you can do every single thing that everybody wants, because you're
never going to please everybody. But there were a couple of major issues that I would
like to see work done.
De Weerd: Anything further from Council? Okay. Is this a voice vote or roll call?
Nary: It is your call, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
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MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I'm just -- I'm seeing members of the public mouthing if we know an
approximate date for the P&Z hearing. I think they were just trying to plan. I don't know
if we have any idea or if staff can maybe grab a couple of the folks and give them some
ballpark figure.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I can really answer that. We would have
to renotice this entire thing, so it probably won't get to Planning and Zoning on their
schedule until at least the second meeting in February, which would be February 15th is
the earliest I could see at this juncture, just because of the timing of noticing.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, I'm just going to call a five minute recess.
(Recess: 11:52 p.m. to 12:01 a.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and pick up where we left off. Okay. 9-E is a public
hearing for a proposed -- I don't think anyone is going to be here. Should we continue
this? Just in case.
Milam: Madam Mayor, I meant to ask you earlier, but we had already opened the other
public hearing -- but maybe jump ahead and see if anybody was here for that one.
Cavener: We had two people sign up I think.
De Weerd: Well -- they signed up on the wrong sheet? Oh. We can continue this.
Hood: Madam Mayor, I would just ask if you continue this one also continue 11-A,
please, because they are tied together and we want to have effective dates that match
up.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hood: So, there you go. Helped you out even more.
Nary: And, Madam Mayor, if you would just make sure to open the public hearing, so
we can continue.
E. Public Hearing for Proposed New Fees for Accessory Use
Permit for Home Occupation, Accessory Use Permit for Home
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Occupation that includes provision of lessons or instruction to
a group of 7 or more students, and Review of Landscape Plan
revisions
1. Resolution No. 18-2057: Adoption of New Fees for
Accessory Use Permit for Home Occupation, Accessory Use
Permit for Home Occupation that includes provision of
lessons or instruction to a group of 7 or more students, and
Review of Landscape Plan revisions
De Weerd: Okay. I will open the public hearing on Item 9-E, the proposed new fees for
accessory use permit for home occupation, accessory use permit for home occupation
that includes provision for lessons or instruction to a group of seven or more students
and the review of the landscape plan revisions. I would ask Council to continue this to
our next meeting.
Milam: So moved.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue this Item 9-E to January 23rd,
2018. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Department Reports
A. Police: Budget Amendment for Animal Control Services Not -
to Exceed $11,000
De Weerd: Item 10-A is a budget amendment for -- under our Police Department. We
heard from IHS and our Police Department earlier. Berle, do you have anything to add?
Stokes: No, Mayor. This is the 11,000 dollar referenced from last week's presentation,
which is an increase to cover -- I think just more costs over the last few years. I think
we were no increase for three years and this is to make up for just changes in prices for
providing the service they provide.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for lieutenant?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: When this was originally -- it is freaky with the AC off -- was originally
happened a few years back, were there -- was it through a bid process? Was there only
one person capable of performing the services?
Stokes: Mayor, Councilman Palmer, honestly, I can't answer that question. I was not
part of the -- the transition or command staff at that point.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary?
Nary: Yes, Madam Mayor, Member of the Council, Council Member Palmer, so the
service normally in the past was provided by city employees and the decision was made
-- there were some necessary changes that had to take place at the treatment plant,
that was where the facility that was used to house the animals had to be moved and so
the discussion was cost of moving and continuing with the service. It was Chief Lavey's
desire to not continue providing that service as an employee service, but contracted
instead. We did go to Idaho Humane Society, they were the only vendor that was really
capable in the valley to handle the volume that we had. There aren't a lot of other
services that exist there. I mean there is -- Canyon county has a different service, but
there wasn't anything else in Ada county that could seamlessly handle that and take on
that. The city negotiated that transition with the employees, as well as the equipment
that existed, so we actually traded some vehicles to the Humane Society at the time as
a setoff on the cost of the services. That lasted for a few years until the cost of those
vehicles were amortized and, then, that's why there was a stable -- stabilization of price
for three years just based on that negotiation and then -- then we had this new one with
the -- the slight increase. So, it was a desire of the city to get out of the business of
doing that with employees and to contract for that service and that was Chief Lavey's
desire and it was the only one at the time that could fill those needs.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? So, is this an annual contract that happens at the time of
budget hearing?
Nary: It is.
Palmer: Budget? Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other --
Palmer: Did we ask -- I'm sorry, Mayor, if I can. Did -- was there -- do we just assume it
was going to be the same? Do we have a conversation and say do you anticipate any
need or were we just going to do the same thing until we heard from them that they
needed more?
De Weerd: No. This was something that was kind of lost in the retirement of Lieutenant
Overton, who oversaw the contract. It came after the budget process and so that's why
it came in as a budget amendment. As we mentioned to Dr. Rosenthal last -- last week,
he's been notified of the budget cycle and, actually, he's well aware of that now.
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Palmer: Thanks.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I move that we approve the budget amendment for Animal Control
Service, not to exceed 11,000 dollars.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the request under 10-A. Mr.
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts, yea;
Bernt, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 18-1762: An Ordinance of the City of Meridian
amending Meridian City Code as Codified at Title 11, Section 3
Entitled the Unified Development Code, of the Meridian City
Code; Providing for a Waiver of the Reading Rules; and
Providing an Effective Date.
De Weerd: 11-A will -- has been requested to continue to the 23rd. Do I have a
motion?
Little Roberts: So moved.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Item 11-A to the 23rd. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12: Future Meeting Topics
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De Weerd: Just a couple of items. MYAC legislative breakfast is this Saturday from
8:00 to 9:00 here at Hall City. City Officials Day at the capitol on the 23rd from 9:00 to
2:00 and lunch at Boise Center East and Town Hall on the 24th from 6:30 to 8:00 at
Cole Valley Christian. It's regarding the recycling changes and the upcoming school
bond. Anything for this item? If not, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Milam: So moved.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 12:06 A.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
X -0R TA Y DE WEERD
ATTEST:
C. JAY CO`t-ES, CITY CLERK
/ 6 / xI
DATE APPROVED