HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-12-05Meridian City Council December 5,
2017.
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:05 p.m., Tuesday,
December 5, 2017, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Keith Bird, Joe Borton, Genesis Milam, Ty
Palmer, Anne Little Roberts and Luke Cavener.
Others Present: Bill Nary, C.Jay Coles, Caleb Hood, Josh Beach, Warren Stewart,
Jamie Leslie, Mark Niemeyer, Steve Siddoway, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Keith Bird
__X___ Genesis Milam __X__ Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Thank you for your patience. Sorry to get started a little bit late this
evening, but welcome. For the record it is Tuesday, December 5th. It's five minutes after
6:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Steve Moore with Ten Mile Christian
Church
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor
Steve Moore with Ten Mile Christian Church. If you will all join us in the community
invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Thank you for
joining us.
Moore: Good to be here. And, Mayor, I'm happy to report that tomorrow we will have a
meeting -- the Faith Community and community leaders for next spring's annual prayer
breakfast. So, get going on that.
De Weerd: Great. Thank you for your leadership.
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December 5, 2017
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Moore: Our Father God in Heaven, thank you for this wonderful day in this season and
just we are recalling what it was like a year ago was Snowmageddon and, God, we -- I
thank you for the way that -- though that in the light of that that our -- these -- these
servants of our community, these leaders and the whole citizenry, pulled together to
deal with that. God, it just reminds us what can happen in this community when we --
we do pull together and we are one and we are neighborly and we live the kind of
lifestyle that Jesus brought. Father, I thank you for this season and the things that are
planned in a community at Christmastime and we ask your blessing on them, that lives
will be -- be moved and changed and encouraged. We think of the words of the -- the
Prophet Isaiah that said: Unto you a child is born, unto you a Savior is given, and upon
him the government will rest. And tonight that seems an appropriate thing to remember
in this moment. I pray for wisdom and direction for these leaders in our community and
the weighty decisions they have to make and the people that are sitting here tonight in
this room and some of them are for it and some of them are against it and they got to
make a decision. I pray for -- for your -- your direction in this. We pray for peace in our
community and see that it -- it starts with us, in the name of Jesus I pray, amen. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. And since you mentioned Snowmageddon, We did have our
fifth meeting today about the possibility of snow and -- and how we will prepare for that.
We met with Ada County Highway District, as well as department leads, and so we have
had our fifth meeting today. So, it's well underway. Thank you, Pastor Moore.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We really don't have any resolutions or ordinances, so I move we approved the
agenda as published.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as published. All
those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Item 5 under future meeting topics.
Coles: Madam Mayor, no sign-ups this evening.
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Item 6: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of November 21, 2017 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. Final Plat for Oaks South Subdivision No. 7 (H-2017-0147) by
Toll ID I, LLC Located on the South Side of W. McMillan Road,
approximately 1/2 mile west of N. Black Cat Road
C. Final Plat for Oaks South Subdivision No. 8 (H-2017-0146) by
Toll ID I, LLC Located on the South Side of W. McMillan Road,
approximately 1/2 mile west of N. Black Cat Road
D. Final Plat for Shelburne No. 2 (H-2017-0148) by Shelburne
Properties LLC Located East of S. Eagle Road on the South
Side of E. Zaldia Lane
E. Development Agreement for Aegean Subdivision (H-2017-
0114) with Premier Investments, LLC located on the east side
of N. McDermott Road, ¼ mile south of W. McMillan Road, in
the NW ¼ of Section 33, Township 4 North, Range 1 West.
(Parcel No.: S0433233700)
F. Streetlight and Electrical Maintenance Agreement: 1940 S.
Eagle Road
G. Whitebark Subdivision #2 Sanitary Sewer Main Easement
H. Swindell Subdivision Sewer and Water Main Easement #1
I. Raisin Angels Daycare Water Main Easement
J. Approval of Award of Bid and Agreement to Pipeline
Inspection Services, Inc. for the “DIGESTER 4 CLEANING”
project for a Not-To-Exceed amount of $100,000.00.
K. Subrecipient/Beneficiary Grant Agreement with Ada County for
Meridian Police Department Receipt of Homeland State
Security Program funds from Idaho Office of Emergency
Management L. AP Invoices for Payment - $1,033,547.59
De Weerd: Okay. Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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December 5, 2017
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Bird: I move we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign
and the Clerk to attest.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is
no discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All Ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Mayor’s Youth Advisory Council Update
De Weerd: Item 8-A is Community Presentations. We have the Mayor's Youth
Advisory here with us tonight and I will turn it over to our MYAC chair Collin.
Freese: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Freese: So, thank you first off for letting me come here today and just speak about
what we have been doing in MYAC. So, the first thing is that we just got finished up
with Rake Up Meridian. So, community service put on Rake Up Meridian and they went
around and raked up I believe three houses and, then, while they were at one house
they looked over and saw a neighbor that the house was full of -- covered with leaves.
Knocked on the door and asked, hey, would you mind if we came over and just raked
up your back yard and he was surprised, he was like do I have to pay money and we
were like, no, no, we want to do this as a community service and so he said of course.
So, they got to go out of the way and go and serve a couple of other people and -- and it
was a cool project just to see that happen and just to see, hey, let's step out of our way
not just to do three houses, but another one. So, another thing that we had was game
night over Thanksgiving break. We had an opportunity for MYAC’ers to come and
socialize with each other during the Thanksgiving break. We wanted to make sure that
we are still staying connected with each MYACer, even though that they are on break,
we are like, hey, guys, we still want to be involved with what you guys are doing and we
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December 5, 2017
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play games, we watched a movie. I believe the movie was -- it was a little funny, but we
just had a fun time together. One of the events that we are putting on right now in
community service is doing a sock drive. So, the sock drive is going on between each
community. So, TAC, community service and government affairs, the goal is whichever
committee gets the most socks donated wins a pizza party. But the main focus of the
whole entire sock drive is just to get socks together, so that we can give them out and
donate them. So, a couple of things that we have been doing is we have been having
guest speakers speak out at our MYAC events. So, every MYAC meeting we have a
guest speaker. We -- in the past we had Clint Shiflet from Idaho Credit Central Union,
who is a main sponsor of MYAC, and the main focus of having guest speakers is
pouring just wisdom and knowledge into the younger generation, young kids' lives,
telling them, hey, this is what I have been through and this is what knowledge I can give
to you and so we just want the opportunity to -- everyone just gain some wisdom from
someone no matter who it is. So, a couple of our future events is that next Monday we
have our participatory budgeting expo. There have been three people who have been
approved and they will be presenting on their projects this upcoming Monday. So, we
are going to take time out of MYAC to have them present their project of what they want
done and just give them the chance to speak up and be leaders and show what they
have put effort and time into. And another event we have is the week after that -- that
Monday we will have our Christmas party to end the year in MYAC and so we just want
to set it off with a bang. Just saying, hey, everyone we are here to support you, we
want to have fun, we want to just enjoy this and just look back at all the progress that
we have had in the past year. And the last thing I want to talk about was -- I have had a
new opportunity to step up as chair and so I will no longer be speaking at City Council
anymore, but I have here with me Elyssa Wade. If you don't mind coming up. But she
will be the new vice-chair and she will be speaking to you guys and I just put down
some incredible things that she's super enthusiastic. She's a great leader. I know she's
so qualified for this. So, Elyssa, if you want to tell them a little bit about yourself.
Wade: Yes. So, my name Elyssa Wade. A little bit about me is I'm from Texas. So,
it's a little chilly here right now. I find reliability and productivity very important in being a
leader. I tend to do tasks very well and I am very creative. So, I really like being
involved in MYAC and having the opportunities to have other people's voices heard and
having my own voice heard. So, I feel like I can do really well in this position and I
thank you for letting me join.
De Weerd: And Elyssa was the co-chair of TAC and so she -- she jumped right in there
and hit the ground running.
Wade: It's a little intimidating, but think I got this.
De Weerd: And I did notice, Collin, one of the things that you didn't mention is you had
a pretty large group helping at the Winter Lights Parade handing out candy. So, there
was a great turnout and we appreciated that. Any questions from Council?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Collin, can you share with us what the three projects that you guys are going
to be talking about at the -- the Expo?
Freese: I am not aware of what they have been presenting. That would be government
affairs chair Arlie. She knows what they are presenting on. But for -- for this past
couple of weeks they have been -- I believe putting up a poster board and researching
more on what their project -- like what they need to do to get their project finished, like
what it looks like pricewise, costwise, and all that. So, I'm sorry, I'm not sure which
three projects. I will know Monday, though.
Cavener: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: I think it's a great -- great question and our youth council would invite all of
you to come and participate in the Expo and see what they do have to propose. We
have three RSVPs that are ready. There are still four others that were qualified projects
that we have yet to see if they are going to be participating in the Expo are not. Well, if
there is no questions, we thank you for your report, for the energy you add to our
community and being a respected voice of youth in our community. So, thank you.
Freese: Thank you.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Final Plat Continued from November 21, 2017 for Rockbury
Subdivision (H2017-0131) by Rock Harbor Church, Inc. located
at 6437 N. Tree Haven Way
De Weerd: Okay. Under Action Items. 9-A is a final plat continued from November
21st and -- and just for those that were here last week, I said it would be the first on the
agenda, your item, but it does have to follow final plats. So, it is the second item. Josh.
Beach: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. This should be quick.
This is for the Rockbury Subdivision, which is near the corner of Chinden and Tree
Farm Way. If you recall this project was approved for a preliminary plat last year, so the
plat in front of you tonight -- and the reason this is before you instead of on the Consent
Agenda is we had a last minute update to the plan and we were unable to get the
applicant's agreement with the conditions by the time needed by the clerk. So, just a
brief rundown. This is a -- it's roughly 23.59 acres of land, which is zoned C-N and R-15
at 5437 North Tree Farm Way. The proposed final plat depicts one commercial building
lot, which is here, where the church will be located. One residential building lot, which is
to the north here, lot number four. Three common lots, as I said, on the 23.59 acres.
Staff has reviewed the proposed final plat for substantial compliance with the approved
preliminary plat and has found it to be in substantial compliance. City Council approved
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a variance for this project to allow for a right-in, right-out access shown here on the
bottom left corner here to Chinden Boulevard. The approval was contingent on the
approval of both the Idaho Transportation Department and the Ada County Highway
District. Initially ITD granted a verbal approval of the access. In further discussion with
ITD the applicant is required to update a traffic study for the access and as shown some
reluctance to now grant the approval. Additionally, ACHD's approval of the overall
development was contingent on that access being granted. So, it's a little bit up in the
air. Staff is comfortable moving forward with the final plat and with an added condition
that the final plat approval is contingent upon both of those agencies granting their
approval. With that I will stand for any questions you have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions?
Bird: Not at this time.
De Weerd: Is the applicant here? Good evening. If you will, please, state your name
and address for the record.
Wonders: Good evening. Scott Wonders. JUB. 250 South Beachwood in Boise. As
Josh had stated, we were a little late on getting the staff report -- to get our comments
back. We don't have any comments on the staff report. We agree to all the conditions
of approval and here to answer any questions that you may have on the application -- or
the final plat.
De Weerd: Thank you, Scott. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just one curious. What's -- what's the difference between approving the final
plat contingent upon a future approval versus approving the final plat once the approval
comes in? Is there some benefit to us getting it now? No, you really don't have it now?
Wonders: So, the -- the actual final plat doesn't really change to any significance
whether the right-in or right-out is granted or not. It's just a matter of having an
easement in that corner. So, if -- so I asked ITD for an update today. They are
reviewing the traffic study currently. They should have something back to us next week.
So, if it gets granted we just move forward with the final plat as it is. If it doesn't get
granted we remove that easement off of the final plat, but, then, it kicks in ACHD,
because ACHD -- Tree Farm Way is currently over the threshold and so without that
right-in, right-out, that's how they wrote their staff report, so if ITD denies the right-in,
right-out, we have to go back to ACHD and work through another staff report and
possibly a commission hearing to redo the staff report. Really, the main crux is Tree
Farm is over the threshold, because they need Black Cat connection and that ideally is
going to be constructed next year sometime and, then, this issue all goes away. But it's
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a timing issue to move the church forward, because they would like to start building
basically as soon as possible. So, we are diligently working on this issue to get it
resolved.
De Weerd: Thank you, Scott.
Wonders: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, if there is no further questions for staff or the applicant, do I
have a motion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we approve the final plats, H-2017-0131 that approval, contingent
as recommended by staff and as agreed by the applicant, contingent upon the approval
by ITD and ACHD.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Public Hearing Continued from November 28, 2017 for Movado
Greens Subdivision (H-2017-0104) by DevCo, LLC located on
the south side of E. Overland Road between S. Topaz Way and
S. Cloverdale Road
1. Request: Rezone of approximately 11.08 acres from C-G to
the R-15 zoning district;
2. Request: Preliminary plat consisting of 96 single family
residential lots, 6 commercial lots, and 7 common lots on
approximately 24.23 acres in the proposed C-G and R-15
zoning district;
3. Request: Development agreement modification to
incorporate the 96 residential lots and 7 common lots into
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the existing DA for Movado Estates Subdivision (Instrument
# 2017-012608);
4. Request: Development agreement modification to reduce the
total acreage of the Silverstone Apartments site and to
reduce the number of apartment units;
5. Request: Conditional Use Permit Modification to reduce the
acreage of the apartment project, to reduce the number of
units, modify the proposed amenities and other specific
changes to the previously approved project (H-2016-0060)
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 9-B is a public hearing continued from November 28th on
H-2017-0104. I will turn this over to Josh for a staff presentation.
Beach: Very good. This is an application for a number of items. A rezone, a
conditional use permit modification to -- a request to modify two separate development
agreements and for a preliminary plat. So, this site consists of approximately 23.5
acres of land, which is zoned C-G, located at the -- on the south side of the East
Overland Road between South Topaz Way and South Cloverdale Road. To the north is
East Overland Road and single family homes in the Rolling Hills Subdivision, zoned R-1
and RUT in Ada county. To the east is commercial properties zoned R-1B in Boise. To
the south is plated single family lots currently under development in the Movado Estates
Subdivision, zoned R-15. To the west are commercial properties in the Silverstone
Business Park, which are zoned C-G. In 2016 this property was granted a
Comprehensive Plan map amendment, annexation and zoning of 102.69 acres of land
and a preliminary plat consisting of 430 single family residences and 39 common lots on
approximately 102.69 acres in both the R-8 and R-15 zoning districts. And also in 2016
a conditional use permit was approved for a 312 unit multi-family development on 13.51
acres of land. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is mixed use
regional. So, there is a number of different applications. I will go through these and if
don't see me stop or have any questions, because it's a little complicated. The
applicant has applied to rezone approximately 11.08 acres of land from C-G to R-15.
The applicant is requesting to reduce the acreage and the number of units of the
previously approved Silverstone apartment project. The proposed zoning is consistent
with the policies in the Comprehensive Plan. Under the existing zoning, which is C-G,
the proposed multi-family development is a conditional use. The use was previously
approved, as I said, in 2016 and the applicant now desires to reduce the footprint of the
apartments in order to plat additional single family lots south of the multi-family and
commercial lots. So, by way of explanation, this entire parcel here -- and outlining
where my mouse is -- was their original Silverstone apartments. The proposal now is to
reduce the apartments to the smaller rectangular piece here up against Overland Road
and, then, to re-plat this area here as single family homes. So, a conditional use permit
modification is also requested, as I said, to reduce the acreage of the apartment project
from 13.51 acres to 5.71 acres and to reduce the number of units from 312 to 112 and
to modify the site design and amenities included in that plat. The applicant is reducing
the amenity package from a -- from the clubhouse, fitness facility, swimming pool,
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December 5, 2017
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children's play structure, a 50 by 100 open grassy area, an enclosed bicycle storage
with the capability of storing approximately 60 -- 60 bicycles and a business center to
three amenities down from the seven for the clubhouse, a children's play structure, and
a sports court and the applicant shall provide two more amenities -- at least one amenity
for an open space category and, then, one additional qualified amenity of their choice,
for a total of five. The multi-family residential development as proposed consists of 112
dwelling units with eight three story structures on 5.71 acres of land and this will consist
of 72 two bedroom units, 80 one bedroom units and 500 square feet and between 500
and 1,200 square feet respectively. A clubhouse is proposed that will contain a leasing
office and a mailing center and associated carports. Because of the proposed units
containing between 500 and 1,200 square feet of living area, a minimum of 28,000
square feet or .64 of an acre of common open space is required to be provided. A total
of 1.24 acres of passive and active open space is proposed. Because 112 units are
proposed, the Commission should determine if the number of amenities is appropriate
for the size of the proposed development, each from at least one category. So, as I
said, staff is recommending two additional amenities for a total of five for the 112. If
Council desires to add more, that's something we can do. And, lastly, the applicant is
requesting to modify two separate development agreements. I will show you the --
going through this. This is the layout for the single family plat, as well as the layout for
the multi-family and this is a separate development agreement for the Silverstone
apartments and a portion of this project lies within the Movado development agreement.
So, because of these changes we are having to modify both of them. So, going through
these a little bit, not a whole lot is going to change in regards to the development
agreement. It's, essentially, changing the number of units and replacing the conceptual
plan and the elevations. As I said, the Movado -- there is two pages to that one. The
Movado development agreement is for the larger overall development. So, there is not
-- there is not much changing in that either. You can go through these if you would like.
Most of the provisions in here did not apply to the two sections that we are modifying
this evening. So, they said there are some conceptual elevations being proposed. Staff
is recommending approval. Commission recommended approval of this. A summary of
the Commission hearing. The application Mr. Conger was in favor. Did not receive any
-- any testimony in opposition in order to receive any commenting and did not receive at
that time any written testimony. I did present that as staff. There were no -- as I said,
there were no key issues of public testimony. Issues of discussion by the Commission
were the number and type of proposed amenities for the apartment project, as well as
for the single family development. The number of parking spaces for the multi-family
portion. How the multi-family portion of the project will be accessed now and in the
future with the proposed commercial lots to the east. Commission did not change
anything from staff's recommendation and there are no outstanding issues for Council.
With that I will stand for any questions you have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions? Okay. Good evening. If you
will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Conger: Good evening. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Jim Conger, 4824
West Fairview Avenue. I apologize for the voice. Put up with the wicked cold that I
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December 5, 2017
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somehow developed just since last week. I would like to thank staff -- as Josh
indicated, there is about five portions of the application. We were bringing on the green
area as what is in front of you today with the Movado Greens. We worked out all items
with staff and, you know, it was numerous meetings to get through and make sure we
did everything proper as far as getting the development agreements to just kind of
modify the -- the lot counts as Josh indicated. Due to the large number of apartments
that got approved in the last 12 months -- we were in front of you in December with --
with these set of approvals that -- that are already done, specifically in the yellow, and,
then, the apartment that Josh indicated. There are about a thousand units out on -- on
West Overland that got approved. So, what -- what we have done is -- is we have come
back in and reduced -- or what we prefer to call right sized. We -- we took it from 312
units to 112 units. It's still a sizable project. We still have some great amenities that
can go with 112 units. Staff did add two more, which we already accepted that
condition at the Planning and Zoning Commission. So, we have no issue with that. So,
with right sizing those apartments, what we did was put in in place of that -- we reduced
200 units, basically, and we added 96 affordable for sale products in that same region,
which, again, is in the red area. If you see our original plat is -- the area we are talking
about tonight is the pink, the original Movado development that we had in front of you a
year ago, that's the preliminary plat of it. We are not touching that preliminary plat. We
are up working in the green area. Or the red area. I apologize. You know. So, I guess
I'm a little confused. At Planning and Zoning we didn't have any neighbors. We will
have some tonight. You know, we talked to a couple of them. You know, our
modification tonight -- I have never really been beat up for reducing apartment numbers.
Usually I'm beat up for adding apartment units. But what we have done is -- is just
focus -- you know, focusing on traffic for a second, our original traffic study with the
apartments said 2,059 trips -- daily trips. The new proposal has 1,654. So, basically,
it's a 20 percent reduction in traffic. So, as far as traffic goes, it's nothing but reducing
and I guess what's important -- and I think I heard Josh allude to it -- you know, in this
red area we are up on Overland Road, so I think a lot of the neighbors you will hear
tonight is in the back, which is on our other preliminary plat, which, again, we have -- we
have been knee deep in that Movado Estates. We have already recorded three final
plats and I think we have platted somewhere in the neighborhood of 170 lots already of
that yellow area. So, I guess it's a great project. Obviously, it's a great part of Meridian.
Everybody knows that and, you know, basically we just respectfully request you
approve -- the conditions from staff are acceptable and as the Planning and Zoning
Commission forwarded for -- recommended their approval as well. For that I will stand
with any questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Not right now.
De Weerd: Okay. Not at this point. Thank you.
Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, we had several sign-ups this evening for
the public testimony. I will run through that list here. William Wright signed up against.
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Not wishing to testify. Candace Wright signed up against not wishing to testify. Gary --
apologize, Gary. I'm not sure of your last name. S-p-r-a-z -- I can move to that sheet.
Jason Attinger signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Are you an HOA president?
Attinger: No, ma'am. I will keep it under three minutes.
De Weerd: Okay. I just wanted to ask.
Attinger: Am I being cutoff?
De Weerd: No.
Attinger: Can you -- is there any way to close that? It's cutting off -- oh, it looks good up
there. Okay. Jason Attinger. 2626 South Tristram Way. Good evening, Madam
Mayor, Council. I just want to say Merry Christmas as well. So, it is technically
December, so -- we are happy that there is no Snowpocalypse. That's great. Just want
to go over a few things tonight. I know Mr. Conger is trying to emphasize the red area is
not the -- is the only area that we are here to discuss and I want to say that the reason
we -- I am here -- you will hear a lot of council members -- or, excuse me, a lot of
homeowners, they want to talk about that yellow area, which is in phase one or phase
two. It's not even down to the area of construction yet. The -- the canal has not moved.
So, we want to talk about increased traffic to Pepper Ridge, to the daycare center,
Micron, Gowen Field, southeast Boise and, then, people cutting through there -- the cut-
through traffic. The other concern is safety. People speeding through there. Failure to
stop. Especially on Hollandale, two stop signs, and, then, the capacity. One trip from a
mother taking her kids to school from the north subdivision Movado is actually four
times past my house. She goes to school. She goes back in the school. And she goes
to school to pick up her kids, she goes back again. So, it's four. So, I don't know what
ACHD or Mr. Conger is classifying as a trip. It may be. I don't know. So, here it is.
Here is the yellow. It shows the current stop lights that are there. The big red star is
where we believe there should be eastern access. I know certain Council Members
disagree. There are only 20 of us that were here. Or I don't know the exact number.
Twenty of us last year that were here to testify. There is a lot more members that were
notified this time, because we went and passed out some fliers. There is the
Copperpoint Subdivision. That's the smaller -- that's going to be apartments that are
proposed as well. So, just going to get over to here. The only southern access is Knapp
Way, which you can see there right across the canal. The blue route would indicate
from the Copperpoint apartments, which will be a little bit -- that are proposed tonight in
the big Movado Subdivision to the north. The only route to the east -- that little choke
point -- what we would call in the military where I would set up a killer ambush -- would
be right there in that circled area. That is Hollandale Drive. The two stop signs
between these subdivisions that are ran almost all the time and, then, the route out to
the east. You're going to hear owners testify about this area tonight and why they think
the traffic is going to cut through from Sutherland Downs, Sutherland Farms. We got
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December 5, 2017
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Movado and, then, now the Copperpoint, which will be coming soon as well. This is the
stop sign. This is my house right there to your left. That stop sign I would say is ran
about 75 percent of the time. People doing excessive speeds. Boise behind me -- it's
technically Boise. That's the other stop sign there for Hollandale. This is Cloverdale
Road. Here is where we believe there should be eastern access where they propose to
move the canal to the west, they had to deal with ACHD. I don't know the specifics, I'm
not here to talk specifics, just general, and let the neighbors talk about that. I know I'm
coming up on time. You're going to ring the bell. This is this morning. This is
Cloverdale going northbound when I went to work. I was a little bit later leaving the
house this morning, so right about the time the kids were going there, so I wanted to get
a picture it. If you were coming from Pepper Ridge just to the south of here, would you
make a left or would you wait in that car line and go up to Overland and, then, make
another left with no traffic light to go into Movado Way? The choice is obvious to all of
you. You'd make a left, you'd cut through Muir, then, through Sutherland Farm and you
would go that way. The traffic is the reverse at nighttime. So, you have to wait in that
traffic if you're picking your kid up from school, unless you cut through the subdivision. I
implore you humbly to listen to all the testimony tonight and reconsider your decision.
They are not to the point where they have to -- they have even started their third part of
their breaking ground yet. They haven't moved the canal over. They have time to
change their plan. They can do it. Otherwise, we think it's a great deal. We like your
plot. They are not -- they are not shoddy homes. So, Merry Christmas. Please, humbly
ask you to listen. I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Attinger: Questions?
De Weerd: I guess a question -- if you will stay at the podium -- to our attorney. This
application that -- what you're talking about has already been entitled and this
application in front of us now is not for the impact that you're talking about. And I
appreciate --
Attinger: Okay.
De Weerd: I agree with you. I agreed with you then and I still do.
Attinger: Councilman Palmer is not the --
De Weerd: Well -- and that's --
Attinger: And I'm not saying anybody, but -- who is left or right, I just remember a year
ago saying, hey, we don't want to add another, you know, artery to the road. I mean I'm
not a doctor. If you had an organ, you put a line up to the artery, you don't hook it up to
the artery -- or to the -- to the little veins. So, I don't know what the legal process is. I'm
not a lawyer. I know the project has already started. I know a lot of people weren't
heard last time. I know the developer. It would cost them money and time to come
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back and reapply. But I think they can do the right thing and get with ACHD and say,
hey, we still got time. We haven't broke ground on the -- the third phase of our
construction yet.
De Weerd: But they -- sir, they already have the agreements, the entitlements, and it's
not for this Council right now to -- to withdraw that. And let -- let me ask the -- the
attorney to kind of detail that process and what you can effect today and what you can't.
Attinger: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay?
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the decision that was granted for
Movado Greens and Movado Estates is done. It cannot be changed or reconsidered at
this point. The only thing that's before this Council are these applications to modify the
existing development agreement to either rezone a portion from commercial general to
R-15, request primary plat for a portion of Movado Estates for the residential homes. A
development agreement modification to change that -- what was granted was for a
certain number of homes and apartments to lesser apartments and now more homes
than apartments that were originally proposed. The modification to the Silverstone site
and a modification on the -- on the amenities. That is all this Council can do is either
agree or disagree with what is being requested. Not to change the road configuration or
the decision. An entitlement was granted to this developer a year ago. That cannot be
changed today.
Attinger: So, is it incumbent upon the developer to go ahead say I want to make a
change at a certain point to change access or ACHD for that mind set, because of the
road or the canal modifying?
Nary: I guess I'm not certain of your question. The developer hasn't requested a
change and no one else has requested a change that would affect the roadway
configuration as it was approved a year ago. All of these changes in here are related to
the zone that was approved or the type of building that would be allowed in that
particular area, but the roadway issue isn't being requested to be changed by anyone.
Attinger: Okay.
De Weerd: And I think the -- the concerns and your request tonight, unfortunately,
doesn't have anything to do with this application. So, there is no opportunity for this
Council to consider any of that.
Attinger: Okay. Then -- I mean all I can -- can say is that -- that before you shut down
the rest of the hundred people here, listen to their testimony and maybe they have got
something else to say and at least consider what they have to say as well and I don't
know what all of them are testifying, but I'm sure a lot of people are going to speak on
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December 5, 2017
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the same behalf without cutting them off. Just listen to what they have to say and that's
all I request. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, just to clarify, if we deny this application today and -- he just goes back to
the original plan that was already approved, which is 312 apartments; is that correct?
So, it's a hundred more homes -- 104 more homes than what he's presenting here.
Thank you.
Attinger: One quick thing -- if I could point out just one sentence off a paragraph Bonnie
just passed me. If I may, Madam Mayor. Now, she just passed me on the policy it says
access points shall be reviewed only for developmental application that is being
constructed by the lead and land use. Approved access points may be relocated and/or
restricted in the future if the land use intensifies, comma, changes or the property
redeveloped. Is that under consideration tonight on the property change in
development?
De Weerd: That would be only the access points touching this application. So, that is
the access points onto Overland.
Attinger: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Fred Thompson signed up against, wishing to testify.
Thompson: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Thompson: Mayor and Council. My name is Dr. Fred Thompson. I live at 2853 South
Nephrite Way in -- in the Sutherland Farm tract. The comments that I was going to
make are substantially reinforcing what -- what Jason was just saying, but a question
that I might -- that I would like to ask the Council and the lawyer is what recourse do
those of us who have not been able to be heard because of a lack of communication of
meetings, what recourse do we have to -- to revisit these? Is there -- is there anything
that can be done at this point by the Council or are we just toast? The Movado ghetto,
as I'm choosing to call it, just really to collect it to -- and aggregate it into one -- one
whole thing -- we got Copperpoint, we got Movado, we have got Silverstone, all in the --
all in the same physical area that I'm somewhat negatively describing as a ghetto. It's
not going to be a ghetto. I'm sure it's going to be much better designed than that. But
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the -- the homeowners in -- in Sutherland Farm, Muir Wood, do not feel that we have
been adequately heard in the previous -- in the previous thing. So, is that a so let it be
written, so let it be done, never to be revisited or is there -- is there an additional
revisiting or recourse possible in this? And I'm throwing that to the -- to the Council as a
-- as a question. Traffic is going to be unacceptable to -- to the addition traffic in -- in
through our -- our tracts, so the environment in Muir Wood is just -- it's a nonstarter in
our view. So, sorry, I didn't give you a chance to -- to answer, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Well, I -- I think we wished we could answer it, but the decision was already
made.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I don't know if it's a question for you or for Bill or the clerk or a
planner. What -- what steps do we take to make sure that -- well, legally what steps are
we required to take to notice for a public hearing and what do we do that goes beyond
the minimum requirements? I think that's what he's asking.
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm going to -- and, again, I don't
have the original project in front of me, all the noticing requirements were met. I mean
the city is required by state statute to public notice in the newspaper, additionally by city
code we also post signs on the property, as well as send out mailed notices to
properties within 300 feet. I do recall the number of people at this discussion with this
Council a year ago, I don't know that everyone here was, but there certainly was a
number of people. Maybe partially to answer the question is the -- the Council's
approval incorporated all the recommendations by the Ada County Highway District and
that included the access to Cloverdale. If there are issues regarding traffic in the future,
that's the area to revisit it with is with the highway district. They are in charge of the
roadways, they are the roadway authority. If the traffic does become unacceptable, as
you just stated, that's the -- that's the agency that's empowered to address that. It's the
land use entitlement that's already been granted to this property owner -- to the Movado
developer is already completed. That can't be changed at this juncture. But the
roadway is always on ongoing discussion, but it's with the roadway authority.
De Weerd: And I think the opportunity would only be if the developer came back and
requested a change to that part of the development, but he's only asking for the change
to the front part up against Overland.
Thompson: So, you're suggesting that our plea, if to anyone, should be to the
developer to request a change in what they have -- what they have already got
approved; is that -- is that what I'm hearing?
De Weerd: I -- I think there is opportunities to work with the developer, with Ada County
Highway District, and certainly we can offer -- we have a transportation commission to
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December 5, 2017
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talk about areas in our neighborhoods that have concerns about running stop signs and
cars speeding through their neighborhoods. We are only a recommending body to Ada
County Highway District, but would love to have your neighborhood come to the
transportation commission and see what our commission can recommend in working
with our transportation partner to mitigate some of your concerns that are existing today
before you even have additional traffic.
Thompson: Great. Okay. Well, thank you -- thank you all and Merry Christmas.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Hold on. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just a question. Your comments about not being heard --
Thompson: Yes.
Cavener: -- in light of the information that was shared by the city attorney, do you still
feel like that there wasn't an opportunity for you as neighbors to be heard and, if so,
what -- I think for us as a body we always are trying to respond to our citizens and
improve our practices and so I'm curious just your perspective what more you would
have liked to have seen done.
Thompson: Well, Mayor de Weerd mentioned about having signs posted on -- in -- on
the various properties of upcoming -- upcoming hearings, but there are so many of
these signs around that you don't always know for sure what they are -- what they are
targeting. The signs are not complete enough that a reasonably -- reasonably intelligent
person could -- could capture what they are -- what they are really doing and what --
what that might be. So, just placing signs -- even -- even posting things in the
newspaper -- I don't happen take a newspaper. My only input would be from our HOA,
which tries to keep us apprised of things that would affect us. I don't know what to --
what to tell you, other than maybe requiring that the developer do something with
adjacent neighborhoods, so that -- so that we don't find something slipping in
underneath our radar and I think that's what we feel, that -- that this project has been
slipped in under our radar where it could not be adequately addressed.
De Weerd: So, what we do over and above the requirement by law of a development is
we require a pre-application neighborhood meeting and I believe last year that -- that
was done and we also do require the mailings. We now post on NextDoor, which is
something that we implemented several months ago -- in June and so we are trying to
expand. How can we better get the word out to the neighbors to allow that voice to be
heard. But when this came through with the original application we had a number of
people that -- that did testify and so the word was out there. I -- we didn't ask them how
they learned, but certainly they expressed concern at that time, as I recall.
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Thompson: The attendance at that from our -- from our owners associations was rather
minimal compared to the response a year ago with the Easy Jet development that was
there. We had over a hundred people addressing the Easy Jet challenges and we were
able to be represented. During the time of the meeting -- the meeting which -- which
addressed this initially for the Movado thing that was -- we were heading into some very
bad weather, there were -- it was a -- like pre-holiday season, which made it really tough
to be able to -- to get as many people out and to consider and assess the -- the request
that was being made before the -- before the Council. So, timing -- timing of these
meetings is -- is kind of critical. If you schedule -- if you scheduled a meeting New
Year's Day or Christmas Day -- which didn't happen, but if you did something
immediately adjacent to a -- a normal holiday season, you're going to get much less
attendance and if the developer and the -- and the Planning Commission sets these
things up for initial evaluation at times that are adjacent to -- to those holiday seasons,
you're not going to get the response and you're not going to get the -- the kind of
feedback that you would need to make a -- a quality decision on these things --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Thompson: -- for whatever it's worth.
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. I hope you understand, you know, why we can't push all
projects out of November and December to make sure that we have as much
attendance as possible. I totally understand. I mean we all have families. We are here
part time to, you know, have these meetings and try to do the best we can with the
information that gets presented to us for who ever was able to make it to the meetings,
but you're the second person to testify tonight and I'm hoping that yourself and maybe
those coming after you can still also talk to us about what is before us, what -- what
decisions we actually can make, how you feel about the change in that section of the
project, the reduction in the number of units and the addition of single family residences
and placement of some of the apartments. Do you have an opinion on that?
Thompson: Yes. Well, the reduction -- the reduction in -- in size is a very positive thing.
It's -- it's something that does not address the -- adequately addressed the -- the access
across Cloverdale for the -- for the elementary school the children have to get to. It
doesn't -- it doesn't adequately address those -- those kinds of things. Possibly a
suggestion would be to place an additional requirement on a developer to do a much
more affirmative -- affirmative contact of -- of possibly affected people in order -- in
advance of -- of any -- any initial proposals. If it means going door to door in the tracts
or meeting with the HOA leadership in the various things -- HOA leadership probably be
an easier thing, but requiring the developers to do that, rather than what we perceive as
having something that has been slipped under the radar past us.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? Thanks, Madam Mayor. And definitely appreciate that
feedback. We are always looking for ways to -- to improve our process and making
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sure that as many people as possible are notified. As the Mayor mentioned, six months
ago we started posting on NextDoor and I understand that we have gotten quite a bit of
response -- good response out of that, because we are able to kind of geo fence it to --
to the people that are going to be affected, so everybody on NextDoor in the whole city
doesn't have to see every single project. So, that you know that if something shows up
on your NextDoor account that it's going to be near you. But understanding all that and
knowing that this is the decision before us, am I to understand that you're in favor of us
approving the application to reduce the residences that's before us today, the only
decision we can make?
Thompson: Well, since it's -- it's the only decision you can make, but I wouldn't say --
I'm less opposed to that reduction than I am to the overall project. If I can put it that
way. I'm not -- I'm not always -- and let's go for -- let's go for -- for less locations, we are
still going to have a problem. We got a problem when had -- when you had 50 homes
or whatever in that -- in that area and trying to get egress and ingress in -- for families
and children through -- through adjacent tracts. So, thank you for hearing me.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Ron Pascal signed up against, not wishing to testify. Sue Pearly signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Oliver Pearly signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Bonnie Broussard signed up against and would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Broussard: Sure. My name is Bonnie Broussard. My address is 2662 South Teddy
Avenue, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Broussard: And the reason I'm here before you tonight is because I did find out about
this project on NextDoor and I really appreciate the app that you all have been working
with and the fact that you have been putting the public hearings on this app, because of
the fact that when this project first started I did go to one of the first meetings that they
had -- that the developer had with the nearby homeowners. It was the one at
Pepperidge school in I believe it was January of 2016. So, almost two years ago. And I
have been waiting to be noticed on any public meetings on this project and have not
received any. I had my name, address, e-mail address, given to the developer. Was
never notified on anything. I'm also on the board with Sutherland Farm and our board
has not been notified on any of this project. We -- our subdivision borders the Movado
development agreement. That whole overall plan. And at the very least we should
have been noticed on the hearings where it discussed the whole entire overall project.
Now, when we heard this development being brought up by the developer in January of
2016, he told us there would be access on Cloverdale and -- because, you know, we
have the issues with the Easy Jet Subdivision, it seemed like the perfect plan to have
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the apartments along Overland, because that's what we were suggesting at that time,
you know, to have more heavy uses being near the more increased capacity roads. So,
it -- it looked like the perfect plan. The apartments didn't have access to the south. We
had four accesses to the entire development, two through Silverstone, one through
Overland and one on Cloverdale. So, it seemed like a very well thought out
development. But, then, we weren't noticed for the public hearings and it seems like
everything changed during those public hearings and I think that's why a lot of people
are here now, because it was noticed on NextDoor and it's the first time we have seen
this. So, we are trying to get our voices heard. We realize that you guys have
approved this, but because it's coming before you for reconsideration on making
adjustments, we would like to be heard, especially because there is some questions
that really aren't clear on the agreement. One of the things is it talked about a right turn
access -- I'm sorry. I messed up here. Thanks. But on Overland at Movado Way, it's
not clear if that right turn only is from Overland onto Movado or from Movado onto
Overland, but it seems like we would need a right turn lane designated all the way to
Cloverdale, because of the fact that this is a safe route to school and we need -- with a
-- the road is already at capacity. This traffic study was done in 2015, two years ago,
and there has been a lot of development approved and constructed since that time and
by the time this is built out, I mean we are going to be beyond capacity. So, in order to
get the safe routes to school, we would like to have a designated travel lane to get
those children by vehicle and the reason why I --
De Weerd: You need to summarize if you can. You have used your time.
Broussard: Well, I don't know if you're aware of this, but about six weeks ago we had a
student that was hit by a hit and run in a crosswalk going to Mountain View High School
and following that on NextDoor there was another child hit a couple of years ago in that
same crosswalk and I myself use signalized crosswalks along Eagle where the fire
station is, that you can access the park and Mountain View High School there. People
are always in a hurry, because these -- there is so much traffic and when they finally get
a free lane, they just speed and they don't care about the signalized crosswalks. My
husband is a quadriplegic --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, I have to ask you --
Broussard: -- and he almost got hit three times from vehicles running the signalized
lights and the fact that that's all that we are providing for this -- for this apartment
project, along with the rest of the development is to expect the children to walk across a
signalized crosswalk, not even an intersection. Most of the parents are going to choose
to drive their children to school to avoid them being hit and so we are just asking for --
De Weerd: Ma'am, I'm sorry I'm going to have to ask you to stop.
Broussard: Okay. So, we just ask for a safer project.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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December 5, 2017
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Coles: Nancy Boudreaux signed up against, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Boudreaux: Nancy Boudreaux. Address is 2611 South Tristram Way in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Boudreaux: I live right across the street from Jason that testified first and I concur with
the people not stopping, because at Hollandale that goes from us -- our subdivision into
Muir Woods, people are flying through there in all directions and they do not stop at that
stop sign. So, I don't know that it would be an -- any less or any better, you know, with
the other traffic that you know is going to come through our subdivision and out to Muir
Woods. Then for them to get their kids to the Pepper Ridge -- I think that's what it's
called -- the elementary school, they are going to have to go out through Muir Woods,
make a left, there is no signal there. There are times of the day -- morning, evening and
generalized other times, you cannot make a left out onto Cloverdale. So, now you're
going to have all this traffic backed up all the way through Muir Woods, possibly even
into our subdivision for these people to be able to take their turn and turn left. It's
almost an impossible situation. And as far as the Movado Greens Subdivision, I don't
mind that personally, but the access -- the developer, obviously, doesn't care. He
doesn't live there. He doesn't have to contend with all of the traffic and the safety of our
kids. Kids play out in the streets. People are going to get -- their kids are going to get
run over and, then, what does it do? It makes that driver, you know, go to jail, because
he murdered somebody? To me the sensible thing to do is to put access at Cloverdale.
I don't care if you have to move the canal or not. You know. Otherwise, I think I
understand it correctly, if we close off Knapp Road right there by the canal, then, we
have to absorb the street lights, all of the street maintenance and everything to be a
closed community. I don't know if that's true or not. Do you happen to know?
De Weerd: I don't think you can turn a public road into a provide road.
Boudreaux: Okay.
De Weerd: It is already accepted as a public road and owned by Ada County Highway
District.
Boudreaux: Okay. Well, I think one of the next places that I'm going is to Ada county,
the highway division, and have a talk with them, show them the maps and the problems
that we already have. They are just going to be multiplied out of -- you know, just out of
reason and, you know, it feels like this Movado Greens that we knew about in that little
rectangle area, we were not notified of the other Movado Estates I think was up there.
We didn't know about that. Nobody has told us that. There was no signage. And, then,
all the apartments that are going to go to the west of Knapp along the canal, there was
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December 5, 2017
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no posting, no signage whatsoever there. We saw little orange flags here and there and
we all wondered what is that for? Nobody notified us of that at all. You know, I don't
know. I don't see how it got passed, which I understand it did, with no road thought in
mind, you know. If the developer had to live there, he definitely would have a road out
to Overland and Cloverdale. I can tell you that right now. So, I feel like things got
slipped in. Nobody notified us. And so here we are -- and it's all done. And, basically,
we can't do anything. Our hands are tied.
De Weerd: Well -- and we can't either, because --
Boudreaux: I know.
De Weerd: -- the decision has been made.
Boudreaux: So, who -- other than the ACHD, who can make a -- a change? Them and
the developer?
De Weerd: ACHD is in charge of the roads.
Boudreaux: Okay.
De Weerd: And so -- and I think they were the ones that changed that requirement.
Boudreaux: To -- from what to what?
De Weerd: The developer will update -- although it has nothing to do with this
application. That's what's awkward about this. I'm just telling you all, this is an awkward
discussion, because there is nothing we can do. We want to hear your voices --
Boudreaux: Right.
De Weerd: -- but I will tell you there is nothing we can do. That decisions has already
been made. We have a public hearing --
Boudreaux: -- has never been done. I'm sorry. I cut you off.
De Weerd: We had your neighbors that were -- were in attendance. I don't know how
they found out, but they did, and we are -- what is in front of us to make a decision on --
or the City Council to make a decision on is the development that's up against Overland
Road --
Boudreaux: Uh-huh.
De Weerd: -- where they are asking to reduce the number of units.
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Boudreaux: Is that Movado Way? Does that go out onto Overland? Is that going to be
connected to all of the other traffic? Or the other sites?
De Weerd: It is all interconnected, yes.
Boudreaux: So, they can get out of Movado Greens by going out to Overland?
De Weerd: Yes.
Boudreaux: Okay. We weren't aware of that either. Okay. So, I -- you know. And I
understand -- you know, we are up here hollering and talking like it's all your fault and I
don't think it is necessarily, but I think somebody needs to notify the neighborhood. At
least the HOA and, then, they can get it out to the -- to the rest of us. But here we are
sitting there, that don't --
De Weerd: Well -- and that is why we added the additional step --
Boudreaux: Uh-huh.
De Weerd: -- of posting on NextDoor, because, again, we are constantly looking for
ways to -- to get better at letting the neighbors know.
Boudreaux: I personally moved out here two years ago, my husband and I, and I didn't
know about the -- what do you call this NextDoor -- until my sister told me about it. So,
I'm sure there is a lot of people who don't know about NextDoor, you know, and,
granted, it's a good way to get the news out. I know now. So, anyway --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Boudreaux: Thank you. Bye-bye.
Coles: John Boudreaux, signed up against, wishing to testify.
J.Boudreaux: Council. John Boudreaux. I live at 2611 South Tristram, right across the
street from Jason, and, like he said, all that traffic goes right past our house, right past
the stop signs and everything and as for the Council, our comments don't count. The
dye has been cast. What we need to do is we need to put a barrier across the bridge at
South Knapp that will keep everyone in Movado out of our area, we won't have a traffic
problem. The developers talk about how much he's going to do for our area, how much
-- you know, great it's going to be. On our backs. That's all I have to say. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Lorraine Anderson signed up against, not wishing to testify. Kathy Hossler
signed up against, wishing to testify. Jennifer Jenks sent up against, saying maybe she
wanted to testify.
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De Weerd: Whichever one you want. Good evening.
Jenks: Jennifer Jenks. 3532 East Beamer Court.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Jenks: Okay. I guess I want to just address the developer. I am very grateful that he
has reduced the amount of space in terms of apartments that he is proposing now. I
think that's well conceived. I think he took a lot of time to consider potentially input that
the neighboring community might have had. So, I -- I am grateful that he took the time.
I hope that in further considering the remainder of their development that he will
continue to involve the neighboring community, so that maybe additional changes that
might need to happen can involve everybody's input. But in terms of his willingness to
look at what really needs to happen in that regard, I think that that is admirable and I
appreciate that. I think -- and I'm just -- understanding, the entrance, then, from the
apartments -- I'm a visual person. I don't have it right in front of me. Will go out to
Overland -- Overland Road, is that -- yes.
De Weerd: It's right there in front of you.
Jenks: Okay. Will that be the only exit from that particular place to Overland?
De Weerd: I guess, Josh, is there a better --
Jenks: Will there be another entrance?
De Weerd: How the next -- yeah.
Beach: So, the applicant is -- there will be some cross-access between the apartments
and these commercial properties here.
Jenks: Okay.
Beach: And, then, there is an emergency access from the apartments down through --
mainly for emergency services. But the main access point for the apartment is going to
be out through the Overland access.
Jenks: Okay. I guess my only suggestion would be knowing how that area gets during
the high traffic times, would be potentially to put another entrance there to allow just
easier access in and out, because that particular part of Overland, you know, especially
during work traffic, it -- it backs up from Eagle to Cloverdale such that you can't make a
left-hand turn at all without potentially having an accident. So, to multiply that potential
exit or entrance might reduce that possibility. Does that make sense?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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December 5, 2017
Page 25 of 98
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor and Josh, I'm looking at page 52 of the application materials
and if I'm understanding it correctly, there are two entrances and exits onto Overland
from the property; correct?
Beach: Yeah. So, there is the South Movado Way entrance here where my mouse is
and a separate one for the apartments approximately in this location.
Jenks: Okay. I guess I don't -- I don't see it on that.
Beach: It's not on this map --
De Weerd: It's -- it's right there. So, that would be the one that wasn't on the -- the
other slide.
Jenks: Okay.
Beach: I don't believe I have one that shows both of them.
Jenks: Okay. So, I will just -- so, there is one just say on the west side in particular.
Okay. All right. Well, if that's the case I think that he's taken some time to consider that
and, like I said, just to reiterate, I hope that he will continue to think about that potential
with the further development that he makes and that he will involve the neighboring
community more.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Janis Glenn signed up against, indicating maybe wishing to testify. Gary Glenn
signed up against indicating maybe. Arnold Hendrick signed up against, wishing to
testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will state your name and address for the record.
Hendrick: Yes. I am Arnold Hendrick. I live at 2654 South Jeblar Way in the
Sutherland Farm housing development.
De Weerd: Thanks. I don't think those microphones consider taller people, so I'm sorry
you will have to bend over.
Hendrick: That's okay. I originally came because I, too, was concerned about the traffic
plan and was aghast to discover that the main grid street -- in this case Cloverdale --
was not connected to the subdivision. Seeing the application before you now, item
three does request modification to the Movado Estates housing development. So, it
seems to be this might be a golden opportunity to revisit some of the other clauses in
Meridian City Council
December 5, 2017
Page 26 of 98
the Movado Estates development, including its internal roads. Also noting that the
developer's suggestion that the reason for his change was fewer apartments, because
there are so many more apartment units being developed in this area, he apparently
feels that it's to his advantage to make these changes. But, unfortunately, he is not
making the change that so many of us here feel is necessary. So, I would recommend
that a vote against this change is a message to the developer that he has to reconsider
the internal roads and connect to -- to Cloverdale and on that logic I would recommend
going against these particular changes.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hendrick: Okay. Thank you very much.
Coles: Lisa Curry signed up as neutral, not wishing to testify. Ann Barnes signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Pam Judy signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Joann St. Charles signed up against, not wishing to testify. Robert Norton signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Eric and Carol Gabrielson, signed up against, not
wishing testify. Cathy Valenti signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. You can actually pull it down now.
Valenti: You're saying I'm short?
De Weerd: No, I would never suggest that.
Valenti: Catherine Valenti at 2607 Teddy.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Valenti: And thank you for letting me talk and I guess I misunderstood, because I didn't
think it was a done deal, but I would like to say I am for reduced number of apartments.
I appreciate that part. I would also like to say that along with some of the other people
here I did not realize when this big huge part of the subdivision or even the apartments
were going in, I did not realize we didn't have Cloverdale access. I thought we did. So,
I would I guess for the record like to say that I -- I did not understand that and I wasn't
aware of the meetings before. So, that's one thing I would like you all to take into
consideration and I do appreciate you trying to keep in contact with people. I'm sure it's
very difficult. I have no idea how those other people found the earlier meetings, but
kudos to them. But thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Bill Coddle signed up against, not wishing to testify. Gary Van Ackern signed up
against, wishing to testify.
Van Ackern: My name is Gary Van Ackern. I live at 3967 East Raja Drive.
Meridian City Council
December 5, 2017
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De Weerd: Thank you, Gary.
Van Ackren: You know, I -- I have to tell you how I got here tonight. I took the back
roads, because that's the only way to get through the traffic. I know that's a hundred
percent, Madam Mayor and City Council, of what you probably -- 75 percent of what you
deal with is traffic and you have no control. I think the things that have been said
tonight are very true, is that the citizens were not notified. We don't need to sign up to
an app to get spam. I think it's great that you're using that resource, but it's not
effective. I think it's very clear here that we were not notified or not duly notified. I think
-- one thing I would ask to maybe understand better is the meetings that have gone on
between the city and the developer and ACHD to discuss this. ACHD does not care.
Okay? They were called, they were contacted, it's a done deal. We don't care. We
were not notified. Okay? I think one of the things that you're asking for and the thing
that you -- that is a request tonight is the reduction, I actually am against it, not because
it won't improve traffic, because, obviously, it will, but because the reason behind the
change. The market is saturated in apartments. Okay? He's not going to be able to
get as much money out of it, because it's saturated and so there is a profit in this.
These are big dollar developments. To put in a bridge it's probably -- I'm going to just
guess -- I'm an engineer -- I'm an electrical engineer, not a civil or mechanical or
anything like that -- it's probably a half a million dollars to put that bridge in. Now, I do
believe that the City Council does have the ability to stay a decision on this. I could be
wrong, but to wait and hold this over and try to ask the developer if they would be willing
to negotiate this for the future development. I think that, again, that the property owners
within 300 feet -- this is in Boise and Meridian. Okay? Boise didn't notify us. I don't
know that Meridian -- you know, other than just the posting of the sign. But there was
not a proper notification from ACHD. You know, in the testimony -- we were here last
week and staff produced the plan for expanding Cloverdale. It's going to be a choke
point. It's going to be a mess. Because there is -- it's not even on the ten year plan to
widen it. ACHD is not addressing the north-south transfer here and everybody --
everybody -- that's a broad stroke -- but a fair majority, just like I did tonight, I went
through the business park over behind Home Depot to get here, because I couldn't get
through the traffic, because it's nuts. We have to responsibly build. I think, you know,
we are very grateful to the City Council, Madam Mayor, for the decision that was made
at the entrance to our subdivision. We spend a lot of time and had a lot of -- hundreds
of people here to testify for the same thing and I just ask you guys to work with this, hold
this over or do something. I do think you have control. I think you have options.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Sir, a few questions for you.
Van Ackren: Sure.
Meridian City Council
December 5, 2017
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Palmer: What was your address again?
Van Ackren: 3967 East Raja Drive.
Palmer: And how did you hear about tonight's meeting and how would you have liked to
have been notified? You mentioned you didn't -- weren't into the idea of the NextDoor
app or -- how would you --
Van Ackren: I actually had signed up for NextDoor, but there was so much garbage that
comes through it, it's not worth my time. I can't even get to my real e-mail. Okay? How
was I notified? Through the homeowners association of this meeting. Nothing prior to
this did I ever hear anything.
Palmer: And, Madam Mayor, if I may. Is that how you prefer to hear it through your
HOA or to be notified directly? And, if so, by what -- what medium would you prefer?
Van Ackren: Well, I don't think just me that should be under consideration. I think, you
know, I -- we have a great HOA that's involved. Not everybody does. So, that's not a --
I mean for us in our subdivision, sure, the HOA is fine. I think maybe even having a
small card mailer come out. You know, we don't always drive all the way around these
properties. I try to avoid Cloverdale, because it's a choke point, you know, but I know
that my wife takes it to take my daughter back and forth to school four trips, just like
they said, every day and I'm sure with the apartments in there and the homes, it's going
to be a lot of traffic. I just -- I'm just astounded -- I mean just flabbergasted by how we
can miss this. If the -- if the staff -- and we have argued against staff and staff
recommendations. I mean I get that there is -- just if you let me explain this. I mean I
guess that there is things that the city would like to see in the growth, but we just -- I'm
just asking for being responsible about it. How could it be missed? The density -- I
don't know how many total units are planned in this whole Movado thing? A thousand
with the apartments? And only having one north access -- two onto Overland with --
and ACHD says -- I heard from somebody else that talked to ACHD, tried to talk to
them, the decision was that there would be no light. You can't get across that. I mean
-- I have my phone, I can show you the pictures of the traffic from tonight just trying to
get here.
De Weerd: I will need to ask you to stay to his question.
Van Ackren: Sure. Did you have one more question, Council Member Palmer?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Any follow up? Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: C.Jay, can you pull up the list of everyone that was notified? Do you have
that? Can you put that on the screen so everybody can see that?
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December 5, 2017
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Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Sir, do you drive by this property very often?
Van Ackren: I drive through the -- on the west side of the property. I very rarely go to
the east side on Cloverdale.
Bird: Because I believe there is a sign there. I don't drive by it very regularly, but I think
I seen a big public notice sign sitting there a day I happened to be coming down
Overland Road from Cloverdale. While I think the developers are obligated to get out to
the people and their application meetings --
Van Ackren: Sure.
Bird: -- should be very informative and stuff and I think we might be lacking on this --
Van Ackren: Sure.
Bird: -- application, I also think when you -- in your neighborhood and stuff you're
traveling through there and stuff, you -- you have got to take notice, too. I mean the
public tax -- tax people and dollars can do a certain amount, but it's up to us as citizens
to watch our communities and be -- pay attention to it and I do -- unless I was looking at
the wrong property and I don't think so. It's the old Bienapel place, there was a sign
there stating the public hearing --
Van Ackren: Council Member, one thing I just want to say is congratulations on your
retirement. I'm glad you were here tonight, because I wanted to tell you that last week.
I would like to say something and I believe that's a Meridian city notification and that is
not anything to do with ACHD and I believe that's where the problem exists and this is
where I think there is a fundamental problem. I think someone say from the association
should be at least notified and brought in, if possible, to the city conversations with the
developers when you're having these foundational meetings, because, otherwise, we
end up at this point. It's platted. It's preliminary. It's already a done deal. And, then,
we have to appeal, but there is no leverage. I say again tonight, you have leverage I
believe to hold a decision over and ask the developer to address this issue. They are
talking in this request about the overall development. There are elements in it to ask
them to go back and at least make an attempt.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: C.Jay, just for clarification, is this the list of people that were notified for
tonight's meeting or for the meeting -- the last meeting we had on Movado?
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December 5, 2017
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Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, this what
you see on the screen right now is for this particular application.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? C.Jay, do you have access to the notification list for the last
meeting?
Cole: Yes. I can --
Cavener: Can you pull that up for us, please?
Coles: Absolutely.
Cavener: Such great staff.
Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, what you
see here on the screen is three pages for last year's application, the 2016 application.
One, two and three. The other pages are -- it's going to be four. The other pages are
cut off of zip codes. It looks like four -- three and a quarter page.
Cavener: Thank you. Madam Mayor? And I guess a question for you is just a quick
glance here I'm seeing a lot more names for the meeting that we had months ago than
we had tonight, yet we have way more people here. On the meeting from a number of
months ago I see homeowner associations that are notified. Citizens that are notified. I
recognize -- what I'm hearing is we can't obviously -- we can't speak to each person we
think is going to be affected directly. Just as a citizen, this looks like a -- a really great
effort upon the city to reach out to citizens and I'm just curious with that in front of you
what else would you have liked to -- wish we would have done?
Van Ackren: I would like for these large developments, where there is very large traffic
impacts, where -- that someone from -- you know, you reach out to these guys and let
them have a voice at the table, where it's -- it's not a closed meeting. It's an open
meeting. Not just testimony, but let's dialogue about this. Let's figure out what the
community solution is. Mr. Cavener, the subdivision is fine. In the other subdivision
that was proposed when we had two hundred and some people here -- or 180 people, it
was because it was not the right thing at the right place. That's not what we are talking
about. This was a technical issue that could have been solved. They were already
moving and had requested to move the canal. The City Council, as per whatever was
on the -- the blue thing, adopted to a waive -- to allow them to move the canal. Why
was that not on the radar?
De Weerd: But, sir, I don't think -- so, I agree that should have been there, but that's not
the decision that was made and that was not what ACHD recommended to this Council.
Bird: Yep.
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December 5, 2017
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De Weerd: As the road authority, they -- and I think what your point was is you don't
know when the public hearing is for Ada County Highway District. We can't help you
with that. They have elected officials that you can contact and say why aren't we
notified about these. I don't know how they do it. We continue to try and improve our
process, because your voice does matter --
Van Ackren: Sure.
De Weerd: -- and this Council is constantly looking for suggestions as you have heard
from the questions that you have received tonight, that how can we improve it. We go
above and beyond what the state requires as public noticing --
Van Ackren: Sure.
De Weerd: -- and -- and that's --
Van Ackren: Madam Mayor and City Council, I'm not saying that the City Council is at
fault here. I think, though, that you sit in a position with -- in working with ACHD and
other organizations -- South Ada County Alliance or whatever the one was from last
week on that subdivision. You're working with them and that's all we are saying is to --
to be brought to the table to have a discussion, so that we can plan the community. Our
community is top -- Meridian, Idaho, is top in the nation -- right? Forbes. Number three
or something like that; right? In growth and stuff. But we just -- I'm just saying we have
to do this smarter. We have to do this. Let's pioneer a better way. And, like I said, I'm
not faulting the City Council at, you know, a broad stroke, but I just want to -- it's
amazing how this was missed. This was overlooked. And I don't think, Madam Mayor,
that you have to accept -- because you're dialoguing with Ada county I would assume
on these things. You're having meetings about it. Whether that's a recommendation --
staff has recommended things that -- that maybe the City Council doesn't agree with
after the -- after the homeowners and the community objects to it. It's not always fail
proof. It's not always the right thing to do. And, I -- again, I'm not saying you're trying to
do the wrong thing here. If we think it's -- if you agree, then, I say we suggest to Mr.
Conger to come back and figure out a way or remand is over, hold this over, and let's
have a conversation.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Van Ackren: Thank you. Katherine Porter sent up against, not wishing testify. Robert
Nelson signed up against, not wishing to testify. Arthur Caldwell signed up as neutral,
not wishing to testify. Paul Hosford signed up against, would like to testify.
Meridian City Council
December 5, 2017
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De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will state your name and address for the
record.
Hosford: My name is Paul Hosford. I live at 2711 South Knapp Avenue on the corner
of Easy Jet and South Knapp.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hosford: A couple questions. Do -- do you rate developers? Do you have a rating
system in how Meridian City Council feels about them? Do they have any kind of rating
system for the Council?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary, maybe you should answer that.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. No, we -- we really can't do that by --
there is no mechanism or reason that we would rate developers, whether quality or
whatever it is you would think we would rate them on. So, no. In your head I can't
answer that, but certainly not in any other method.
Hosford: The concern that the developer -- after approval over years ago -- so six, eight
years, has not been in touch with the HOAs concerning the -- maybe that's the change.
The HOAs adjacent to developments need to be notified yearly. Things change in a
year. Maybe that's it. Maybe this was dropped. They got through. It didn't go.
Anyway, the other statement I have is there is a public hearing for Copper Point
Apartments and there was another -- still by a pending commission -- is a public hearing
before it goes in; right? That's going up this month at the commission? If we come to
that one maybe we can get our words in and get it changed in that development or is
that already a done deal, too?
De Weerd: No. And there is a public hearing --
Hosford: Yes.
De Weerd: -- that is going through the process of whether it is approved or not and that
is the appropriate time.
Hosford: That's another 124 units adjacent to the Movado deal. Is that --
De Weerd: Certainly you can go online. We can ask staff to maybe bring that up and
talk with you afterwards.
Hosford: Great. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. And I just will point out, again, the list that Councilman
Cavener asked our city clerk to pull up is over three pages in neighbors within the
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December 5, 2017
Page 33 of 98
allowable footage of the development, as well as homeowners associations. So, they
were notified.
Coles: Bonnie Carter signed up against, wishing to testify. Clayton Carter --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, she's on her way.
Coles: Is she? Oh. Excuse me.
Carter: Merry Christmas, Mayor, City Councilors. My name is Bonnie Carter. I live at
2740 South Afleet Avenue, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bonnie.
Carter: I just have a question. I'm not going to go through all of what we just did. I
have a question. There was -- there was at some point a private road that was
approved to -- that goes to Pewter for the apartment project and I just want to know --
we are just wondering what happened to that private road. It wasn't addressed in the
staff report tonight and when I looked at the -- at the plans I didn't see it anymore. Does
anybody know what happened to that?
De Weerd: I don't know if -- Josh, can you answer that?
Beach: So, that is no longer being considered as part of the application. As you know,
south of this project is the Movado Way -- or the Movado Estates and they have what's
called their Village product, which is their age-restricted community. So, there is a
private road that will -- if you look on the screen will dead end about right there to
provide access into that age-restricted community. That road --
De Weerd: It's on that screen right in front of you. Yes.
Beach: The private access no longer connects to what would have been the
Silverstone Apartments. So, now the access for the apartments is out to Overland
Road. Future cross-access out to South Movado Way and emergency access down to
these proposed single family homes. But this is no longer being proposed as a -- as an
access. As you can see, that's part of their now open space.
Carter: Okay. And the other one -- the other question was the right turn lane out of the
apartments to access the safe route to the school, right turn from Movado Way over to
Overland and right on Cloverdale, then, a left from Cloverdale to Pepper Ridge. Is it
east or west to Movado on Overland? It was never in the staff report either.
De Weerd: Okay. We will ask the developer to address that when he --
Carter: Yeah. I would like to know.
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December 5, 2017
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De Weerd: Okay.
Carter: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Clayton Carter also signed up against, wishing to testify.
C.Carter: Madam Mayor and City Council and Mr. Nary, I don't have anything to add
that --
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
C.Carter: Excuse me.
De Weerd: Yes.
C.Carter: Clayton Carter. I live at 2740 South Afleet Avenue, Meridian. And it's the
Sutherland Farms development.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Carter.
C.Carter: I do have one thing to do -- one recommendation as Councilman Cavener
brought up earlier. I would like to see -- or maybe Mr. Nary can answer this question for
me. I believe there is a rule or codified section that developers have to notify within so
many feet or miles -- I don't know exactly what that is. And is it the number 300 feet or
500 feet? A thousand feet? Whatever it is, is that taken from the actual borders of the
development or is it from the center of the development?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So, it's 300 feet from the borders of the
property and it's all the -- essentially registered addresses of the property owners listed.
So, not to get ahead of this, but sometimes, again, we notify everybody who has a
property ownership. So, again, sometimes property owners have changed and the
notification, you know, sometimes are -- it's all we can get. But 300 feet for the borders
to whoever is listed as the owners of the properties with the Ada county assessor.
C.Carter: Is that the contractor's responsibility to obtain that or is that part of the
information that's disseminated from the city planning department?
Nary: Yeah. Actually, that's is the city -- the city is the one that sends the notices out.
C.Carter: Okay. All right. I would recommend, since there seems to be quite a
difference in opinion of -- on notification, if -- and I assume the notification was by mail, I
would recommend that that boundary or the percentage -- you go out to a good quarter
Meridian City Council
December 5, 2017
Page 35 of 98
of a mile, then, there is no -- that would encompass virtually almost our entire
development and we would have had over -- well over 200 just in Sutherland homes --
over 200 homeowners notified versus just assuming the HOA will pump it out.
Because, again, the HOA would pump it out on the website and if you don't look at the
HOA website -- I know, as a homeowner you should be looking at it at least once a
week. But if they don't for whatever reason or they don't have a computer, then, at least
they were notified by mail of that existence and even the -- the past residents or owner
is gone and the new owner is there, they are still going to get that notification, because
it -- you can put it out as either Mr. and Mrs. So and So or resident and, then, they are
notified. That's my recommendation to be considered hopefully. The second thing --
the second question I have for the Council or Mr. Nary is -- and I asked you, Madam
Mayor, this question during a recent opportunity at your place. What is the -- someone
cover the funding mechanism for Ada county roads or highways for Ada county. I'm
assuming since all roads are owned by Ada county and not by the city. So, can
someone do that for everyone else's edification?
De Weerd: Your question was the funding?
C.Carter: How it's funded. How are the roads funded.
De Weerd: Your -- your roads are funded through growth impact fees, through --
C.Carter: Water impact fees, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Impact fees on each building permit. So, every home is assessed an
impact fee to roads.
C.Carter: Right.
De Weerd: Just like it does with police, fire, parks and your water and sewer
assessments.
C.Carter: Our property taxes. Is that going to be found on your property tax bills?
De Weerd: That's for new construction. Yes.
C.Carter: Okay. So --
De Weerd: Your property taxes, you have -- should on your tax bill have a line item that
says Ada County Highway District and also the -- the highway district gets funding from
the state and federal government. That's gas tax and I don't know. Maybe -- is Justin
here tonight? In the back. So, I might even throw him a hard ball and ask him to -- to
see if I missed any funding. But that's the major pots. Because they are a taxing district
you do have elected officials that you elect during the general elections as well.
C.Carter: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
December 5, 2017
Page 36 of 98
De Weerd: And that's a great question for your elected officials for Ada County
Highway District.
C.Carter: Very good. Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council Members. Mr. Nary. And
I wish you all a Merry Christmas.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Gail Stocking signed up against, not wishing to testify. Damia Thompson signed
up against, not wishing to testify. Amy Parker signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Dudley Parker signed up against, not wishing to testify. Bryce -- I apologize, Bryce, I
can't make out the last name. Sergeant perhaps?
De Weerd: You must be Bryce. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Herbert: My name is Bryce Hergert. I live at 2860 South Groom Way, Meridian, Idaho.
De Weerd: Can you pull that a little closer? Thank you.
Hergert: How is that? Is that better?
De Weerd: Is that better? Yes.
Hergert: I am the HOA president of Sutherland Farm Homeowner Association.
De Weerd: You may want to step a little closer to it.
Hergert: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hergert: I am the president of the Sutherland Farm homeowners association. I know
you have heard a lot of testimony that doesn't quite follow with what the application is
this evening. I do have a couple things I'd like to bring up, though. One of them is I
would like to thank you -- we have been here a year and a half or so ago and through a
similar situation and the Council and Madam Mayor, you helped us achieve a solution to
our problem that we felt we had with the apartment complexes at the entrance to
Sutherland Farm and I commend you for what you did and help and we have been very
successful in working with the development and builder has been great and it's been an
asset to our subdivision. I want to just get that record to thank you for that. I have a
question concerning the notification list. As you show it here, is there a -- some sort of
verification that these were sent out? Is there any -- we have not been able to find
anyone within that area that received any of these notifications on the previous
hearings. We have a secretary who is very diligent collecting our mail from our P.O.
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Box and she immediately notifies me and we get something out to the homeowners.
We do not recall -- or not been able to -- it's possible -- slightly possible that it slipped
through the cracks, but I don't believe so. We have checked with homeowners that live
all along Pine Bluff and they said, no, they have not received anything. So, is there any
way that that is verified that was sent or received, either one? Or is it just we say we
sent it out and, therefore, you must have received it is? That it's a concern of ours,
because we try to stay up on these things and when we get something we get it to our
homeowners either through e-mail on the website and it didn't happen.
De Weerd: So, from two years ago is that what you're referring to?
Hergert: Well, we are referring to anything prior to this evening that is on this list.
De Weerd: And that's the list from two years ago?
Hergert: Well, this is the list that was -- he showed -- the second list that --
De Weerd: Yeah. So, that was from 2016.
Hergert: And we didn't -- and that would have been on the original application?
De Weerd: Yes.
Hergert: Yes. And we cannot locate anyone that actually received that.
De Weerd: I'm not sure I would remember what I got two years ago. But I -- I don't
know. I don't want to even --
Hergert: Yeah. My question is there a verification process or is it just a matter of
someone is supposed to send it out and it got sent out. That's all I'm -- I guess that's --
De Weerd: We do send those out. Maybe, Mr. Clerk, would you talk about your
process.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. So, to answer your
question, to verify that they were sent out is -- is the list that goes into the public record.
So, that list isn't put into the record until we mail out the postcards --
Herbert: Okay.
Coles: -- to verify that they were received that isn't something that we can do. But the
list doesn't go into the public record until the postcards are delivered to be mailed.
Hergert: Okay. Well, just like you say, Madam Mayor, you know, it's hard to remember
what you received. But since we did not find anyone that could recall, I was concerned,
because as the HOA board of directors and the president, this will be brought back to us
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to say what happened, so -- because we feel we are responsible to make sure that our
homeowners throughout our entire subdivision are notified of these things and it didn't
happen.
De Weerd: Well, also part of the record -- and I don't know, Mr. Clerk, if you can pull up
the sign-up sheets from the public meetings, but as I recall there were a number of
people that were here that evening and they found out somehow and -- and at this point
we couldn't even guess how they found out.
Hergert: Well, I just wanted to ask -- because I don't want to take up a lot of your time,
you know, you have spent a good evening here, so, really, at this point that's all I have
to say and I appreciate it.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. -- I'm sorry.
Cavener: If I could ask you a question. I'm just curious. As a -- as a taxpayer -- so, to
send out postcards -- I mean like 53, 54 cents a card, if we were to certify them, the cost
would be -- no, I just was curious as a taxpayer --
Hergert: No. I just wanted to make sure that there was a process in place that --
because I never asked that question, I wanted to make -- just wanted to make sure that
I have a clear answer to that, how that works.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. I think it's in the city's best interest that we do send them
out --
Hergert: Sure.
Cavener: -- because we do want to hear from our citizens and we don't want a situation
where people of our community think like that they weren't informed. I think that's why
you have seen so many questions tonight is that --
Hergert: No. I wasn't -- anyway, that -- I just think it would help avoid the situation we
have here this evening.
Cavener: Okay. Thank you.
Hergert: All right. Thank you.
Coles: Brad Fitt signed up against, not wishing to testify. Kim Moody signed up
against, not wishing to testify. Donna Taylor signed up against, not wishing to testify.
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Gary Taylor signed up against, not wishing to testify. And with that, Madam Mayor, that
concludes our sign-in -- list -- sign-up sheet.
De Weerd: Is there anyone who would like to offer testimony? Sir, yes. Good evening.
Colson: Madam Mayor and Council -- Council Members. Josh, can I get my
presentation that I mailed to you? So --
De Weerd: If you will state your name and address.
Coulson: Oh, I'm sorry. Lee Coulson. I live at 2509 South Goshen Way.
De Weerd: Thank you. That was Halson?
Coulson: Coulson.
De Weerd: Coulson.
Coulson: With a C. So, there is a lot of concern tonight about the connection onto
Cloverdale. I went to the ACHD meeting last year and I was a little disappointed in the
meeting. Their impression was that nobody would drive -- drive towards southeast
Boise and so, therefore, a connection onto Cloverdale wouldn't be necessary. So,
because of that information -- I presented this survey to you last year before the vote. I
sent the survey out to some impacted neighbors. There was 102 responses. So, as
you look at the results, the percentage is like the number of people, because there was
about a hundred or so. So, I asked where they lived. Addressing -- I wanted some
information. Do people drive that direction? Is there a concern? And so I wanted to
establish that. So, that's what the first question was. And there was response. Yeah,
we do drive that direction. Can I go to the -- can I go to the next page, Josh, or -- oh.
Okay. And so I -- then I asked the question, well, if you lived in Movado and there
wasn't a connection onto Cloverdale what route would you take and as you can see a
lot of them chose route two, which is through our subdivisions. And if you noticed when
I walked up here, I took route two.
De Weerd: I did notice that.
Coulson: I, then, asked, well, what if there was a route three. Most people would agree
route three would be preferable, as you can see by the results of the survey, and most
people walked up to the podium, including our developer, would take route three. And,
then, the next subdivision -- there is an elementary school on the east side of
Coverdale, which is the closest and most likely the school that the kids from Movado
Subdivision would take, I asked, well, what route would you take, route two or route
one? As you can see, the response is route two. And if you could go to the next slide.
I, then, asked, well, what if there was a route three what would you take and, of course,
it makes sense, everybody's going to take route three if it was available. I -- I was
disappointed in ACHD's response or their reasoning -- you know, looking at their -- their
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report, they don't evaluate the connection onto Cloverdale. You know, they didn't say
anything about it. It does give numbers going out of the proposed development and,
you know, I was really disappointed and it's my understanding now -- I realize, Tammy -
- or Madam Mayor and Keith Bird and -- sorry.
De Weerd: Milam.
Coulson: Voted to have -- or recommended that ACHD review the proposal, but,
unfortunately, our other Council Members didn't see a need. It seems like a simple
request. I -- you know, I'm looking at Ty, because he was the ring leader of the -- he
was the one that proposed that we accept it as proposed, you know, which is
unfortunate for us and it -- you know, I sent this survey out and I think it was kind of a
shock to the homeowners that -- that did do the survey, this -- this was back December
21st, you know, so people are packing up for Christmas or whatever. And so I'm sure a
lot of these people didn't get a chance to come and I think it's unfortunate that these
hundred people -- their voice wasn't heard and now it's my understanding that if we
want -- if we were to have an access onto Cloverdale, it's up to the developer. He can
request a change.
De Weerd: Sir, I need to ask you to summarize.
Coulson: So, I'm asking -- sorry.
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Coulson: I'm asking is -- would you agree that it's up to the developer if he wants to
make that change or not now that it has been approved?
De Weerd: I think even if we wanted to we can't, because it doesn't apply to the
application in front of us.
Coulson: I'm talking about for the next phase when -- you know, I think the developer
can ask for -- he's asking for a change now.
De Weerd: But, see, this is a different application or it's a different portion that has
nothing to do with where you would have that connection. Unless he wants to come
and make a change to that.
Coulson: Right. That's what I'm asking.
De Weerd: Then that does open the door.
Coulson: So, it's up to the developer if he wants to make a change?
Bird: Yeah.
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Coulson: So, our only -- our only way we could potentially have access to Cloverdale is
if the developer wanted that change. I'd ask for it.
Bird: Yes.
Coulson: And it was approved by -- by the Council.
De Weerd: That's correct.
Coulson: Yeah.
De Weerd: ACHD.
Coulson: And ACHD.
De Weerd: And the Council.
Coulson: Can I just share one more slide?
De Weerd: Yes.
Coulson: So, I was a little --
De Weerd: I hesitate to say no.
Coulson: Well, this -- this slide -- I was a little disappointed in the -- I like the idea of the
pathway system that Meridian has, but -- so, the -- the upper path, the red one, is what's
going to be developed.
De Weerd: Sir -- Council, are you okay with extending this testimony? Okay. I just
wanted to ask.
Coulson: I'm just -- I'm just looking -- you know, looking at Meridian in the future and I --
I think that the pathway green -- I live right up to the canal and the canal access road is
used as the path right now and will probably -- even after Movado Subdivision is
developed it will continue to be the path, because the proposed path from Movado isn't
really a path, it's just sidewalks and crossing streets. It's -- I would just like the City of
Meridian to -- when they are looking at these applications to look at the overall picture of
-- of all the pathways. Can you just -- one more slide? This is the last one, I promise.
But at the planning -- at the Meridian Planning and Zoning meeting, the reason why that
path wasn't proposed was because the developer and the staff said it could not be done
and they were correct in that it could not be done on the canal -- you know, it couldn't --
they couldn't remove their canal access road and put a path there, but they could put a
path next to it, which is -- if you go up the road from this development -- so, this pathway
goes from this development to Mountain View High School. So, you know, a lot of kids
take it and they will continue to take it I'm sure, even along the canal access road. But
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as you can see that when these two subdivisions were developed the pathway was
added on -- it was next to the side of the -- so it can be done. I think the -- the staff
should be aware that -- and the Planning and Zoning should be aware that, hey, you
can put a path next to a canal access road. That's all I had. And I would just like to say,
hey, when you're voting for your next city council, that's -- that's all I had. Any
questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Coulson: Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: That will be 2019 and seats one, three and five will be up.
De Weerd: Any further testimony? We did want to have a question about funding from
Justin, speaking on behalf of Ada County Highway District.
Lucas: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. My name is Justin
Lucas, I represent the Ada County Highway District. Business address is 3775 Adams
Street in Garden City, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lucas: I believe the question, Madam Mayor, that you're referencing is the one about
how ACHD receives its funding; is that --
De Weerd: Correct. Yes.
Lucas: Our largest source of funding comes through property taxes. It's about a third --
a little over a third of our -- of our funding. ACHD is a taxing authority and has been
since its creation in 1972. Other than that source of funding we have various other
sources, one of which is vehicle registration fees, which is approved by the voters of
Ada county through a countywide vote that ACHD goes out for to renew those fees
every 20 years. Other than that source --
De Weerd: And those were for special projects.
Lucas: The current -- the current -- the increase last time to the registration fee was for
special projects, that is correct. We also receive funding through the gas tax, which is
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controlled by the Idaho state legislature and we receive a portion of that funding through
the state of Idaho by formula. The other large source of funding we receive is through
impact fees, which you mentioned, Madam Mayor, which fluctuate greatly depending on
the development activity within the county. So, that can fluctuate from two million
dollars a year to the highest year we have ever had, which was this last year, over 18
million dollars a year. So, those are the primary sources of funding. There is lots of
other small sources of funding, but I don't think those are relevant to the discussion
today.
De Weerd: Thank you, Justin. Council, any questions for Justin as he's up here?
Bird: Thanks, Justin.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Any further testimony? Okay. Would the
developer like to have -- answer some of the questions that were asked during the
testimony and field any closing remarks and questions from this Council?
Conger: Madam Mayor, thank you. Members of the Council. Jim Conger. So, the one
question I think was on turn lanes. So, we did have a right turn lane required on
Movado Way. That's actually already been constructed on Overland. Our Movado Way
is actually three lanes where it ties into Overland, which would be a -- you know, a right
turn, a left turn, and, then, an access into the development along that. It's a local road,
but it's a de facto spine by nature as far as Movado Way goes, so that turn lane has
already been installed here approximately a month ago. I think with that I have no
further comments from our behalf, but would be more than willing to answer any
questions from Council.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jim, just going through two of your applications, take it from an old goat, your
application meetings have got to be clearer, better or something. I don't know what.
We -- these last two -- we have had so many people be surprised and I know -- I know
better than that, because you have had other applications come before where the
application will explain and stuff. I just would suggest that you make sure you get
involved and listen to them and get the meetings going.
Conger: No. Madam Mayor, Council Member Bird, no, we hear you loud and clear.
We feel we do do that. Sometimes that is very similar to bringing a bag of ice cubes to
a bunch of Eskimos.
Bird: Yeah.
Conger: I mean they don't want growth and some of that is just a little bit difficult.
Obviously, our neighborhood meetings are to be as informative as possible. Talk about
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what the comp plan requires and try to do some sort of a -- bit of an educational. Just in
clarification, we never discussed an access to Cloverdale Road as you heard. We had
six months -- if anybody recalls, we took 40 acres out of Boise and brought it to
Meridian. So, during that six months of annexing and de-annexation out of Boise to the
city, we spent that entire time working with the ACHD and if you recall -- and many of us
may not -- it's been a while. The whole point of the no Cloverdale access really bases
around economics and a hundred years from now when ACHD is not maintaining
bridges. So, the ACHD part of their policy with the traffic impact study -- or part of their
decision making was based off maintenance over the next hundred years. So, there
was never a discussion and a switch and a bait and things of that nature. And, again,
our neighborhood meetings had the same three pages or four pages that you saw as
well as far as our required mailing. So, that would be two sets of mailings that didn't
arrive.
De Weerd: Just a couple of -- I know we have to watch questions that are not
applicable to this application, but what is the phasing for this entire development? You
saw the -- you had some construction activity going on. Is -- is this that you're bringing
in the first part of what you are building and, then, you're building south?
Conger: Certainly. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we have -- in the brown
area we have brought on 60 of the age-restricted or, you know, age lots in the tan area
in the center of the project. We have also brought in the first phase of the urban product
in the orange and, then, we have brought in phase three, which is a pretty large
segment of the yellow area, all in phase one. So, the yellow area will continue to be
expanded in the next phases, as well as, you know, probably a year and a half to two
years before we need any more of the brown area, of course, and, then, the Movado
Greens is -- is similar to the orange product. So, there will be a little bit where my
mouse is going right here and, then, we will also develop some of that Movado Greens
phase. I don't know if I answered, but we have done three large phases -- well, two and
a half large phases right off the bat and this year we will probably do two more phases
in 2018.
De Weerd: But your major access is to Overland?
Conger: Our access point is to Overland. That was a requirement that we self-
imposed. It would have been opposed by your staff anyhow, but we had to have the
spine in for phase one and we also have the connection to Silverstone Commercial
Park, which heads west. So, anybody going to Eagle Road would take the -- go through
the commercial product -- the commercial development.
De Weerd: At this point.
Conger: At this point or any point. I'm -- yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. And I guess you heard all of the concern with the impact and
certainly over a year ago when we heard this application there was a lot of similar
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testimony. Would you be willing to work with those neighbors in bringing ideas of how
to mitigate some of the concerns to either our transportation commission or asking for
an audience in front of Ada County Highway District?
Conger: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of Council, we are always sincere in working
with the neighbors, as opposed to what you will hear, we have a lot of reasons to care
about this project being successful and we care many, many years after it's built out.
So, we would be happy -- and what I heard tonight and what we heard a year ago and a
half a year before that ago is their cut-through from Cloverdale through them to get to
Eagle Road. So, it's not so much my traffic, the TIS -- already supported that and I think
if you listen closely to half the people you heard tonight, it was the people coming off
Cloverdale and smoking through their development and not stopping at the stop sign
and going through. The challenges we will have -- because we took that to ACHD. The
challenges we will have is both of their streets right now will be -- you know, with those
being at capacity be at 2,000 vehicle trips per day, you saw both of their spine roads --
or both of their roads that the cut-through traffic is using to get to the Silverstone
Commercial and to Eagle Road, one of it is at 1,032 trips per day, as opposed to 2,000
and the other one is at 632 trips and I'm just going off ACHD counts. Our traffic impact
study also had to study those two roads. So, our issue with ACHD today isn't an issue
with ACHD, it's there isn't the capacity there to use taxpayer dollars to do something,
because there isn't an issue yet per standards. It doesn't mean the neighbors don't
have issues, it doesn't mean people aren't blowing through the stop signs and we are
sympathetic to all that. That is all occurring, I'm sure of it, but more than willing to work
with the neighbors. It would be to stop at ACHD, out come the traffic impact studies and
the actual counts and it's probably not at the threshold for them to spend taxpayer
dollars on, but more than willing to go that route. Again, we have done that once. More
than happy to do it again. We have already got it set up.
De Weerd: But it sounds like there is some representatives from the neighborhood that
would love to --
Conger: Certainly.
De Weerd: Because right now your issue is with your own neighbors. So, it's -- I think
it's incumbent on you to make sure that you maintain livability for your development and
when they are going to be neighbors to the subdivision to the south, that working
together sets a great precedence to seeing if you can not further exasperate the
problem they are having, but to maybe complement it through solutions.
Conger: No. For sure. More than willing.
De Weerd: Okay.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
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Little Roberts: Madam Mayor. Within that discussion, Jim, can you include safe routes
to schools? We seem to have heard a lot about that tonight and what the best walking
path or route path for the kids to Pepperidge would be. I know that's probably asking a
lot, but the safety of the kids seemed really, really crucial tonight.
De Weerd: No. Madam Mayor, Council Member Little Roberts, no, that isn't asking too
much. We actually value that input more than the vehicular trips, to be quite honest,
and I think one thing that's got lost in this is this spectacular -- in the bottom right-hand
corner when we get to -- it is in already in the development agreement, when we get to
a certain specific phase in the yellow area, we actually have to put the pedestrian bridge
over the Ridenbaugh Canal. That was put in our application up front and more than
happy to do it and we think that's spectacular and contrary to what you heard about the
city's master planning and regional pathway, you have a spectacular master plan for
your regional pathway and we were more than happy to finish your regional pathway
from the Silverstone commercial. It will get finished all the way to the city of Boise city
limits. That's where it's -- where the disgruntleness comes is city of Boise doesn't have
much of it and a lot of that might have been Ada county, but it doesn't have a pathway
system, that homes that backed up blocked all that from occurring, not City of Meridian
property, it is Boise city and Ada county property. But, no, you have a pathways
common and it's going to be spectacular. There already is a pedestrian crossing at
Cloverdale. Our bridge and our pathways are all lined up to go in unison with that
existing walkway across Cloverdale.
De Weerd: Thank you for bringing that up.
Conger: Yeah.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Jim, I guess I would like to know more about if you have decided for sure on the
amenities. I think that's part of the reason this was passed with the apartments -- I
know there were quite a bit more, but your spectacular amenities package and it looks
like it's gone down a lot and I realize some of the number of units -- but it's kind of gone
from spectacular to okay and I -- and I'm glad that there is less units -- you know, that
there is some blanks left in the -- in the packet. So, would you help me fill those in?
Conger: No. Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, it was a spectacular amenity
package for 300 units. Basically the only thing of drastic proportion that we took out of it
was the swimming pool. That's the biggest -- biggest item. At 112 units you would
never support the pool and it would be of no size that would really matter for that
benefit. Now, what we did is -- we believe we know how to read city code, we provided
the amenity package that meets city code. Staff added two more. We think that's
above and beyond code. We didn't dispute that, we accepted that like big boys and
took it. So, we will have two more amenities to add to the package. But, again, we
think we still have a great community center, which those people come to. We are
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going to have a leasing center in it and it will be interactive and a little more of a cafe
type style. But the only thing we -- of big measure that we took out was the pool.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: And, remember, those are minimums.
Milam: Yeah. We don't like minimums.
Conger: Didn't read the word minimum, but I agree to add two more.
De Weerd: They are minimums because that's what you at least have to have.
Conger: Yes.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, originally, you had a fitness center with indoor bikes -- bicycle parking and a
media center and a fitness center and it looks like all of that has been removed and
what you're doing is combining a clubhouse with an office. The way that it reads now
you took out all of that stuff and you're basically just making an office with an attached
clubhouse or a lease -- you know, for just a leasing office.
Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, yeah, we don't believe that will just be
a leasing office. It is a bigger facility than that. We still think the media type
atmosphere is still there, but, yes, to the -- to the pool, I guess, the equipment center,
we could put a bike in it, but typically we are not seeing those get utilized on something
of this size. But we will be adding two more back in to meet staff's -- when it comes
time at final plat.
Milam: Clubhouse facility, bicycle storage, fitness center -- so, all of that is -- so, am I
correct to say it's just an office and a clubhouse, there won't be a fitness facility and
those other things that were going to be part of the clubhouse, are those all -- are they
gone or are they not?
Conger: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, yeah, the fitness center is
gone. The community center is still there. Clubhouse type environment. And -- but it --
both of them always had a sales leasing center in it, of course, which is kind of where
people congregate, you know, around the -- kind of the manager and things of that
nature.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: So, back to my original question. Do you know what the additional two
amenities will be? Have you decided on those yet or --
Conger: No. Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, we have not. We are going
through that process and we will have that identified at final plat, because there has to
be a final plat for this to move forward. So, that is the way it's conditioned is to add two
more amenities when we come in with final plat and we will do that and we did not
dispute that, even at Planning and Zoning Commission.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council?
Conger: Thank you all.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, any further questions for staff? I will wait for
your direction.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: If we have no one else that would like to testify, I move we close the
public hearing.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and -- Council, it looks like we have one more person who
would like to testify. Sir.
Vansickel: Good evening. My name is Jeff Vansickel. 12252 West Muir Ridge Drive. I
would just like to show you this picture. This was from Pepper Ridge, the presentation
by Movado developer. There is access to Cloverdale there. So, it was shown in the
original Pepper Ridge meeting. I attended another meeting after that at the Marriott and
they had taken it out at that point. I was notified of all the meetings. I'm not saying I
wasn't. We attended -- me and my wife attended all the meetings, voiced our concern.
I think it's obvious there is a lot of concern here. Something else that just, you know,
you need to consider -- all these kids that are coming down the spectacular pathway to
cross over Cloverdale every morning, I don't know if you have ever traveled down
Cloverdale at -- anywhere between 6:30 and 9:00, it will be backed up past Victory with
all the kids crossing that street there. I live one house in off Cloverdale, so I'm well
aware of all the traffic. We would really like the developer to re -- re-address this. It
needs to be done. It's going to be -- I also work in Silverstone and I know how much
traffic there is in there. It is a concern and we appreciate your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Sir?
Vansickel: Yes.
Milam: Do you have a date on that photograph? Is that a -- was that a photo that was
taken or is that a slide from a presentation? Where did that come from?
Vansickel: It's a photo that was taken of the -- the plat.
Milam: Is it a dated photo?
De Weerd: Of the original plat. And as I recall that was --
Milam: Just clarifying the fact that that was actually presented to the neighbors.
Vansickel: Correct. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any final comment from -- yes, sir.
Thompson: Excuse me for coming in late, Madam Mayor and Councilmen. Damon
Thompson. I live at 4175 East Pine Bluff Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Thompson: Just reviewing the December 20th minutes, my concern as a homeowner is
where I live is when it came down to a final decision is, Madam Mayor, you commented:
Council, I don't know if we are ready to -- to vote on this, but I would love to see if there
would be a consideration to consider this -- have the developer work with the Ada
County Highway District and see if there is an opportunity to make that connection to
Cloverdale and, then, it was proceeded to one of the councilmen to push it through. I
live on Pine Bluff from Tristram, that's a little bump speed coming through there. My
house -- next to it, my neighbor to the west to me, was run into in the middle of the
night, 2:00, 3:00 in the morning from a girl texting coming around that corner, took out
my mailbox and into his -- side of his garage. I'm not concerned about what kind of
counts the developer has. As a homeowner my safety, my grandchildren playing in that
neighborhood, I have a concern. It was my wish that maybe the councilmen would have
maybe worked with the developer -- or if the developer was there, step up to the plate,
work with Ada County Highway District. The Mayor suggested it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any further testimony? You can't testify until you're in front of the mike.
Gabrielson: My name is Carole Gabrielson. I live at 4231 East Easy Jet Drive. I just
have one question. I wrote -- I read through all of the testimony for both the Planning
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and Zoning and the City Council meeting. A lot of our neighbors didn't know. The
reason you had so many here tonight is because we took fliers around our
neighborhood yesterday. We know you can't do anything. We understand that. But we
felt like this was the only way that we could get our voice heard. But there is one thing
that I read and I wrote you a letter and I -- I hope that all of you had an opportunity to
read it, but in the Planning and Zoning hearing Mr. Beach said that ACHD had deferred
to the staff to make the decision of whether or not they had a connection to Coverdale
and the Planning and Zoning staff were the ones who decided that that was not
necessary and I believe his words were we felt there was plenty of connectivity. So, I'd
like to know is that the case? Are they the ones who made the decision not to connect
to Cloverdale?
De Weerd: Our staff would not make the decision of -- for Ada County Highway District.
Gabrielson: Well, in the -- in the Planning and Zoning minutes he said that ACHD had
deferred to them to make that decision.
De Weerd: I don't recall ever having ACHD defer to our planning staff a decision
regarding their responsibility, but I guess I will ask Josh directly, since I don't -- I did
read that in the minutes. Is -- did ACHD defer our recommendation on their roads?
Beach: So, if the question is did the Ada Highway District defer approval of an access
point to City of Meridian planning staff?
De Weerd: That's correct.
Beach: The answer is no and I understand that that's not how that works. I would not
have -- I would not have said that.
Gabrielson: Okay. I have copies of the -- of what -- what was in those minutes and I
have a copy of the minutes, so I will get those to you after the meeting.
De Weerd: Okay. Well -- and I am sure -- irregardless of what might be there, I don't
know, but I -- the process that we follow is ACHD makes the recommendations on
access points and -- and their responsibility for the roads and that would be an
overreach for the city to make that kind of decision.
Gabrielson: Okay. Thank you all.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: I think this conversation sounds familiar and I'm thinking it was this project, it
might have been a different one, but it had -- I think it -- it was more along the lines of
ACHD staff recommendation or something about ACHD staff and maybe Justin knows
more than I do with regard to that question, but that's what's sounding familiar, not that it
has anything to do with our staff making that kind of decision.
De Weerd: I am not even sure what question to ask of you, just that you're coming
forward, so maybe you had an answer to -- to at least the conversation on process.
Lucas: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you. Once again Justin Lucas
and I have already stated my address. I am representing the Ada County Highway
District. The ACHD commission acted on this application. They are the final decision
making authority in the sense of the road connection in this -- in this -- as it relates to
this specific application. That being said, they make that decision and forward it onto
you as part of their recommendation on this overall application. ACHD takes no
application on any preliminary plat without first transmitted an application by the city.
So, everything starts at the city and you're all very aware of that. It, again, goes over to
ACHD, goes through a process where there is opportunity for public comment. Those
recommendations from the elected ACHD commission come back to you almost always
prior to the City Council meeting and I know many times you have continued
applications because you don't have that official word from ACHD and, then, it's before
you for final action and, then, you take into account all of the factors related to the
application, not just the traffic. So, that's a short process clarification. I just want to
make it very clear that when you receive a staff report from ACHD, especially those
projects like this that require commission approval, that staff report is being sent to you
by the ACHD commission, not by staff.
De Weerd: And generally you do require traffic impact studies for a development of this
size.
Lucas: Absolutely. We have a TIS policy, Madam Mayor, that requires traffic impact
studies when projects meet certain thresholds. This project required a traffic impact
study and I know this was a discussion at length, the connection to Cloverdale Road by
the ACHD commission during the original application.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Justin, so how long ago was the impact study done -- two questions. And can
there be access to Cloverdale or is that a shut door?
Lucas: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Milam, I'm looking to see if I have a date on the
traffic impact study. I don't. I would have to look through this report. It was done prior
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to the submission -- or as part of the application submission. So, this is back in 2016.
The applicant would know exactly the date I'm sure on the traffic impact study, but that
would be as part of the early phases of the application process on this application. The
question about a connection to Cloverdale Road -- I think it's a valid question. The
entitlement process, as you're very aware of and has been discussed at length tonight,
has several rules and requirements related to it and as entitled, there is no connectivity
shown through this application to Cloverdale Road and so the -- the only way for that to
change would be as was stated, a request from the developer to modify their approved
application or some future action that would require purchase of houses and things like
that to make a connection, which, I will be totally honest with you, is very, very unlikely.
Milam: Madam Mayor, follow up. In general how long is a traffic study good for? When
will they do another one after it's been too long? Because the rate of growth that we
have in the city is crazy and so in two years traffic changes a lot.
Lucas: Madam Mayor, Council Woman Milam, I can't really answer the question how
long is a traffic study good for. There is not a -- I can't say like one year. There is not
expiration dates on those. What I can say is that traffic impact studies are created using
existing conditions and projections of future conditions. So, are those projections
perfect? No. No projection is. But that's the requirement as part of the traffic impact
study, is you take existing conditions and you're projecting future conditions -- not only
future conditions for the growth of that development, but what we call background traffic,
which is future conditions with general growth and so there are -- there is a lot of inputs
into those studies and those -- the people -- the engineers that are required to create
those studies are licensed professionals that do this for a living and those licensed
professionals, the work they do is reviewed by other licensed professionals at the Ada
County Highway District.
De Weerd: And generally a traffic impact study is asked to be updated if Mr. Conger
came back with a substantial change, adding more -- more units and that would trigger
an update at that point, too. Okay. Anything further?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Lucas: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Conger is always -- is there any further testimony?
Hosford: Kathy Hosford. 2711 South Knapp in Sutherland Farms. I believe, if I'm not
mistaken, traffic was -- was done in 2000 -- December 2015. There is a lot more traffic
now than there was two years ago and I want people to understand that we are not --
and we are growing. I mean, oh, my God, we are growing and I think the traffic study
should be done more now than reverted back two years.
Meridian City Council
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Hosford: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Conger, do you have any closing remarks? Okay. Council, any further
questions? Okay.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I believe I have a motion on the table --
Bird: Yeah.
Little Roberts: -- that will be to close the public hearing.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just a quick comment. I -- and I should have said it before certain -- or some of
the people left after they testified. The input is really valuable and I know ACHD sees
here and is listening to it and the developer is and there has been discussion of
opportunities to continue to communicate and I appreciate the fact -- and we all do -- the
fact that the public recognizes that when -- when the city shares that there is -- there is
nothing we can do about that connection at this time, it's -- it's a legal prohibition in light
of the application that's before us. It's not a matter of us exercising some discretion
right now in choosing not to -- to add that connection, for example. There is just -- there
is not a mechanism to do so. If the Council asked to do so now that wouldn't be valid.
What can happen and what's come from this meeting is a lot of good things that,
hopefully, makes the process better for everybody. Mr. Conger heard the message
from Councilman Bird, which is one of many wise ones we all get, that there is an
opportunity, even though the noticing provisions were all compliant with Idaho Code and
city code, it got opportunity to go above and beyond whenever possible. Over
communicate. The public never complains about too much information and it's an
opportunity, you know, early and often, to improve a project. So, we don't have
situations where -- where the public, through no fault of their own, might have missed
something. I might have missed an opportunity. Nobody wants that. And I know you
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have developed in the community a long time that you're going to be supportive of what
Councilman Bird suggests and, then, take it to heart. There has also been good -- good
discussion about opportunities for the public to communicate with ACHD directly and
ACHD would want to know if they could improve their process and how they
communicate to the public and get them involved as well. Those are opportunities that
-- from the notes of this discussion that we can take from this and make that process
better. To the extent that this application does reduce the number of trips, if there was
concern about traffic and the traffic being the need for that connection, approval of this
application, based on the metrics of traffic and the reduction of traffic, would support the
concerns of the residents. So, from 312 to 112 units, approximately a 20 percent traffic
reduction, although anything more than zero percent is a lot of traffic, I certainly
appreciate that in any neighborhood, but it does further that goal, which is one of the
reasons I'm supportive of this particular application. I just wanted to make sure that the
public knew that we appreciate and understand those concerns. I know ACHD does
and the developer does, too, and, hopefully, we take these opportunities to improve that
process going forward, in particular with regards to noticing to the public. I meant to say
that earlier and I saw some people leave and I didn't want people to testify and walk out
and think that we weren't listening or weren't going to take the opportunity to try and
improve our process or that decision to not address the Movado Estates concerns was
a discretionary decision, but, actually, one that we are technically not allowed to decide
today. We are only allowed to decide the particular application, for better for worse,
that's before us and apologize if I didn't share that earlier.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Borton. Other comments?
Beach: Madam Mayor, if I could --
De Weerd: Josh.
Beach: So, I will say, humbly, that in the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting
back in November of 2016 part of my presentation did indicate that the highway district
did not require the connection to Cloverdale Road. Certain circumstances it is within
staff's ability to recommend certain connections and my testimony was that staff was not
recommending that connection at that time. We did not feel that -- that it was -- it was
needed. So, that -- that was part of my -- part of my testimony at Planning and Zoning.
I wanted to make sure that that was clear, that it did come up and I did make comments.
My intention was not to say that the Ada County Highway District was leaving it up to
city staff to make that decision. So, hopefully, that was clear.
De Weerd: Thank you for the clarification.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Meridian City Council
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Milam: I know there are a lot of HOAs out there and some of them are really involved in
their neighborhoods and -- more than others. What I would like to see is at least have a
list and -- and try to make sure that the HOA board or a property management is getting
these notifications, as well as the requirements.
De Weerd: Oddly enough, Mr. Clerk and I talked about that yesterday, to make sure
they are on the list. We can only get information from the Secretary of State and that's
assuming that that information is up to date, but we will use whatever we have and that
will be on the list, so that is shown that they have been notified.
Milam: Madam Mayor? And I don't know if it -- if this is more of a technical thing, but
there may be something that we could put on our website where HOAs can go in and
register themselves. I just got a notification for one of my subdivisions that they are
changing to a different property manager and that may take -- I think the Secretary of
State things are like February or so, but -- but if they did it in March right after the -- right
after the change and, then, there was a hearing, they would never know. So, it gives
them the option, something to check with IT about.
De Weerd: He was actually going to have it in his report to Council next week when he
does his annual update. So, whatever he finds out further between now and then will
be included, so -- there you go, Mr. Clerk. Thank you for that. Any other questions,
comments? Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If there is no other questions or discussion, I would move that we approve Item
H-2017-0104.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-B. Any discussion from
Council? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: And I guess I have already asked Mr. Conger to work with the -- the
neighboring subdivisions or HOAs. If you would like to share information with him
following this -- and/or Justin as well, just to make sure we know who has an interest in
being part of that process. So, thank you for joining us.
Meridian City Council
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C. Public Hearing Continued from November 14, 2017 for 2017
UDC Text Amendment (H-2017-0044) by City of Meridian
Planning Division
1. Request: Text Amendment to Certain Sections of the UDC
Pertaining to Definitions; Allowed Uses in all Districts;
Specific Use Standards (Home Occupation and Retail Store,
Wine and Beer Sales and Servings); Surety Agreements
AND Establish New Definitions and Regulations to Allow the
Operation of Food and Beverage Products Processing,
Minor in the Commercial, Industrial and Traditional
Neighborhood Zoning Districts
De Weerd: Item 9-C is a public hearing continued from November 14th on H-2017-
0044. I will ask for stuff comments.
Hood: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I would wish you a Merry
Christmas as well, but I have a sneaking suspicion that we will see each other a time or
two probably between now and then, so I will save that for another date, but --
De Weerd: I think it's --
Hood: So, Happy Holidays anyway.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hood: So, this is a continued public hearing for H-2017-0044, zoning ordinance
amendment or UDC text amendments as it is otherwise known. This public hearing was
continued from the first public hearing which was on June 6th and, then, again, just a
few weeks ago from November 14th. The subject application does serve several
purposes and intents that we are trying to meet with this UDC text amendment. First is
to establish a clear procedure for approving, revoking, modifying or denying an
accessory use permit or what we generally refer to as home occupations. Number two
would be to modify and add definitions to Chapter 1 of the UDC for several uses,
including direct sales. And, number three, would be to clarify the requirements for
permitted, prohibited, and accessory uses in the zoning districts in Chapter 2. The
fourth objective is to modify the specific case standards of food products processing.
Again, accessory uses, home occupations, and retail stores, wine and beer sales and
servings in Chapter 4 and to restructure and reorder the surety and occupancy verbiage
in Chapter 4 and, then, finally, to incorporate new standards to allow for establishment
of food and beverage -- beverage products processing minor -- and I will touch on that a
little, because we didn't really talk about that last time. So, just a quick refresher -- and I
know it was just a few weeks ago, so I'm not going to belabor this too much, hopefully,
but staff has collaborated with other city divisions on the proposed UDC changes and
these changes were shared with the UDC focus group and the BCA, as well as the
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stakeholder group that you all directed us to put together after that first initial meeting on
June 6th and, again, we talked about that a little bit last time. Staff does believe now
that these code revisions are in the best interest of the city as they balance the needs of
both the private and public sectors and protects the residential character of
neighborhoods, while allowing home based businesses. So, throughout this process --
or at least since June 6th we have had a pretty core group of folks that have at least
attended in person or have been notified via e-mail of status updates and an opportunity
to collaborate on changes, particularly to the home occupation sections of this UDC
amendment. So, I'm just going to quickly name them if you're okay with that. So, Eric
Ritter, Jeff Todd, Mindy Lin, Ryan Cardoza, Eric Wallentine, Carolyn Smith, Kevin and
Becky Preece, Shyrel and Norm Stoddard, Soren Dorius, Luke Cavener and Emily
Kane, Lacy Ooi, who is here -- hopefully still here. Bill Parsons, Emily Kane, Robert
Simison and myself participated in that small working group. And, again, I'm not here to
represent that everybody was at all three of the meetings that we held in person, but
there was several communications electronically as well. So, if you missed a meeting
and tried to catch up in a summary and to let every -- everyone know what was going
on. So, then, fast forward. So, we talked about this again on November 14th. There
were three changes that have been made since that meeting and I think they are pretty
minor, but I do want to run through them. Sorry. I'm going to move over here so I can
actually run through them. In the packet that you have in front of you -- and the first one
is -- and these were all sent to everybody, again, in that group that I just mentioned.
The first one is on page five of your packet and I'm going to scroll there, but if you're
following along on your computer -- we added -- under direct sales we added this
footnote number three. So, everything else was there before, but we added the
footnote number three and the note that goes along below it. What this says is we
basically are treating direct sales like home occupations. In fact, they are a form of
home occupation by definition. So, we wanted to clarify that you are subject to those
specific use standards in 11-4-3-21 for direct sales. And, again, we can run through
those if you want. In fact, we will look at that table here in just a minute. So, that is new
since you saw this three weeks ago. But, again, it's been shared with everybody on that
group in -- in that version. So, the second change, then, is on page seven, Table 11-2-
D-2? So, this table was -- inadvertently got cropped for the last version. At P&Z it
looked as it does now, but somehow in the transition from going to the Planning and
Zoning Commission to you all it got cropped and one of the -- besides the home
occupation stuff, one of the main reasons we were pursuing this code amendment was
to allow -- I know it's not intuitive what this is, but food and beverage products
processing minor really is your microbreweries or distilleries and your wineries
downtown. OT. So, allowing them with -- again, with specific use standards. So, there
is some things you have to comply with to do that, but we have had some interest from
developers to do that in our downtown area and our code right now prohibits that. So,
we wanted to add that. We thought that would be an appropriate use downtown -- in
the downtown district. And, again, that table inadvertently got cropped. It only showed
home occupation accessory use. So, we added, essentially, these three lines back in.
But the only real new change is to food and beverage products processing minor. And,
then, the third -- and if you want to talk about these anymore we can either jump back or
feel free to interrupt, too. The third one is on page nine of the staff report and you,
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actually, can't see this one, but -- and she just left the room, but it's one that Council
Woman Milam brought up last time about pet boarding. So, we had -- before we had --
as a prohibited home occupation -- I believe is number six even. We had pet boarding
listed here and we met together, as we mentioned during that meeting on the 14th.
Lacy was there. Myself. Emily Kane. I didn't take -- can't remember who else was
there. It was primarily just city staff though. Long story short, the code enforcement
was not overly concerned. It was brought up there is one pet boarding business in the
county that is an issue for them, but not necessarily for city code enforcement at this
time and they have -- so, they are okay with removing it. Plus they have other animal
control codes and other codes, like harboring codes, that if there is violation they could
point to other sections of city code that you may be in violation of that wouldn't
necessarily fall under home occupation so -- but you reserve the right to -- if it becomes
an epidemic of this, to maybe revisit that with you all, maybe add it back in if, again, we
-- if they are problematic in neighborhoods and people aren't being good stewards and
good neighbors. And, then, just the last thing. So, those are the changes. The last
thing that I just want to call to your attention again -- and we talked about it real quick,
but this tiered approach. So, if you look at process for -- currently for how we treat
family daycares and we require the neighborhood meetings and the neighborhood
notice and we treat them kind of as a hybrid -- there is not a public hearing required, but
we do send notice and they are appealable applications. That's how we are proposing
to treat home occupations that have -- provide lessons or instructions to groups of
seven or more students, like a day care, seven or more kids, same process. Seven or
more students or providing other instruction, you need this level of an application. Most
of the issues we get around home based businesses are when it's a bunch of people
converging on a single residence at the same time. Seven or more. More than six. So,
that just made some sense and that's kind of where we landed on the tier. So, if you're
-- if you're this level and you don't have -- you have six or fewer of these, you would get
the staff level, over-the-counter type of a permit, and the reason I bring this up is right
now this doesn't exist, so we need to add it to both our fee schedule and we need to
create a checklist and an application for it. So, once I get the go from you, if this is all
good, Bill Parsons is ready to go and do that, but we got to bring the fee schedule back
to you. Now, just talking with him, the -- it's probably only about an hour of work; right?
It's kind of an over-the-counter type of a permit. We usually do a preapplication and talk
with people, but we envision about an hour's worth of work to do these -- to process
these and issue them a permit. That is about 53 dollars today, you know, to do that
process. So, what I propose -- and we can talk about this more when we come back
with the amended fee schedule, that's the cheapest fee we have in our fee schedule
and, again, the least amount of time that we charge. But I just want to let you know
those two elements are -- if you want the cart before the horse and have a fee for
something that didn't exist, we wanted to make sure you were all on the page -- on the
same page with us and on these changes. But we will be bringing that and working with
Cortni Klucken and Rita in Finance to update the consolidated fee schedule here in the
near future, assuming you're good here. So, just one final note. We did -- since the
November 14th meeting, there are four additional pieces of written testimony that have
been received, at least as of 4:30. So, maybe something else came in in the last few
hours, but when I checked earlier this afternoon all of those four were in support of the
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changes and all were from either Scentsy employees or consultants. Ryan McFarland,
Kenneth Sansoucie, Cheryl Hunley and Cindy Lee and they weren't -- a lot of them
weren't -- aren't here from our working group, but I do just on the record want to thank
them again for -- from the consultant work. Staff didn't really have a choice, they had to
participate, but them dedicating their time and taking the time out get it to this point. So,
with that, Madam Mayor, I would stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor and Caleb, forgive my ignorance. For example, on the lessons
or instruction of group of seven -- or more students, first question -- how much did you
say that it would cost to file that application?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman, I did not say. That is a 160 dollar application.
Palmer: Follow up. Do we -- prior to this, if someone were to teach piano lessons to a
group of seven or more, do we currently regulate that or require any type of permit to do
that?
Hood: So, it's been so long since I recall it even, but you can read it through here what
is allowed and not allowed. So, the existing black is what we currently have on the
books. So, the old A -- it's not prohibited there. So, sorry, we are just going to kind of
run this together, because I don't -- I got to look it up. The storing of goods. Storing of
goods. Pick-ups. You can't have more than one nonresident employee on a
headquarters of retail sales and off street parking. And it just says all visited by clients,
customers, and/or employees shall be between the hours of 8:00 and 8:00. Now, we do
have -- what you don't have here is we do have another level of application that is if you
have customers or clients as sort of a hybrid in those tiers where if you have customers
or clients -- well, actually, I can -- sorry. I can show you on this one. See we are
striking through this level right here with customers, clients, and/or employees, we are
striking through to create this third one, which is, essentially, similar to this one right --
so, we have two levels right now. With customers and clients or without. And you can
see what we stuck through; right? Those are the two levels now. Instead of customers
or clients, we are saying groups of seven or more. So, in answer to your question, yes,
if you -- you can do it, but it's with that higher level of permit. It's that end level permit.
The same 160 dollar fee. So, really, there is no -- no difference in that aspect. Is that --
we call them clients. Now we are clarifying it's students or in giving instruction.
De Weerd: And that's only when there is seven or more.
Hood: This -- so -- I'm sorry, Madam Mayor, but just to clarify. This is right now
currently -- this is with any customers or clients. So, we have them signed a form right
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now saying I do not have -- I am a home based business that does it all by mail. No
one -- I don't have a home office. No one comes to visit me for my business. If you do
we scrutinize you to that next level and require you to meet with your neighbors within a
hundred feet -- it's not three hundred even, but it's a hundred feet, to ask them do you -
- if they -- do you have any concerns with that business operating there. So, today --
again back to your question -- we require if you have any -- the first customer or client to
get that 160 dollar level fee.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Palmer: Thank you. Is the word occupation defined -- so, I guess for the context for the
question, my four year olds -- and several other families in the neighborhood participate
in kind of a co-op preschool where they -- there is no -- no one is getting paid, but they
have -- I don't know how many go, but I have got two as part of it and so I imagine there
is quite a few -- to someone's home for instruction, but there is nobody getting paid, it's
just kind of -- they take turns, but there is -- and I imagine larger than seven people
converging on a home.
Hood: So, we can tackle this a couple ways, Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer. I can
look it up and read a few. I don't think we could find occupation, but certainly the intent
here is the need to be of -- some exchange of goods or services or monetary exchange
to qualify for it being an occupation. I mean that's the intent. We aren't proposing to
change necessarily any of that I don't believe. So, no, something like you're talking
about would not be a -- a home occupation.
Palmer: Be no different than if someone were to --
Hood: Here is the definition --
De Weerd: Well -- and is the difference do you get paid or is it a business.
Palmer: It's neither. I guess I'm -- the point of my question is I just want to make sure
that we are covering it and making sure that we are not regulating gatherings, just that
that it's -- we are covering the -- it's only in the case of a business, which saying it out
loud makes me go wait a minute, but --
Hood: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: I get what you're saying. Caleb.
Hood: I don't know if this adds clarity or adds more confusion, but you may turn into
another type of a land use, though, depending on what you're doing. If you have
curriculum and you're providing instruction, you may or may not meet the definition of a
private school; right? I mean so you wouldn't be a home occupation -- you wouldn't
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meet our definition of a home occupation for what you're describing, but if it got to be of
a certain size, you may be, you know, a daycare, you know, you may meet that
definition, or you may meet the definition, again, of a private education institution or
something else, depending on what you're -- what you're doing and when and how
many people, so --
De Weerd: We will send code enforcement out tomorrow to --
Hood: Code enforcement is here, so if you want to run -- we can --
Ooi: I have closed down to co-ops because they have qualified as schools and they
had had about 15 people and that's because of state govern regulations that they can't
hold the school. So, it matters about the curriculum and what age the group of kids are.
De Weerd: And how many?
Palmer: Well, that's horrifying.
Ooi: And how many. But the state governs anything under six, so that's the reason the
number seven was chosen. So, state licensing doesn't come in until after the number
six.
Palmer: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: So, she's saying she's just enforcing state code.
Ooi: We mimic state code for our numbers, so that we didn't conflict against the state.
Palmer: Holy cow.
Milam: Guys get shut down.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, my kids stay at my house all the time, they never --
De Weerd: I would imagine the difference is -- is it's not every day, it's not set hours, it's
not a set place. It sounds like it -- it alternates place to place, it's -- so I don't think it's
the same as what she's talking about.
Palmer: That's why I'm different.
De Weerd: From what you sound like, so -- only you will know. Any other questions?
Hood: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Caleb.
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Hood: Just sort of along this -- this was a tough topic. I mean it was -- again, we think
we have a good balance of reserving residential character, but there are gray areas and
I think -- you know, I imagine we will be back in the next -- you know, society changes
and things are going -- you know, I don't know where that line is, but we think this for
right now for Meridian -- we think it's pretty good guidance for both the public and
people who are wanting to operate some business out of their home, but realizing that
you're in a residential neighborhood and you shouldn't be operating a retail storefront
necessarily out of your home, you know, so we try to clarify that and -- yeah, there is
going to be some gray areas and some people that push -- push the lines or blur the
lines a little bit and -- yeah, we couldn't think of all cases, but we think this is a pretty
good amendment, but I'm not here to say we might not be back again to talk about it
some more.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Council, any other questions for staff at this time?
Okay. This is a public hearing. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We had one sign up, Carolyn Smith in favor, but not
wanting to testify.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to testify on this?
Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Seeing no one else is itching to testify, I move we close the public hearing on
H-2017-0044.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close public hearing. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Little Roberts: A comment first if I may. I just want to echo Caleb's comments and
specifically thank Caleb for herding a group of industry professionals, home based
business professionals, City Council Members, staff. It was a challenge I think to get a
lot of the stakeholders -- meaningful stakeholders to the table in response to the
feedback we heard from the community, but I thought Caleb did a great job. From the
-- looking at it as a citizen standpoint, it was a fascinating experiment in things that I
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didn't think were even issues suddenly bubbling up and from having those stakeholders
at the table to provide that feedback I thought was exceptional and so thanks, Caleb, for
doing that and the work with legal staff and development services staff, I just thought it
was -- to me as a citizen it was great to see the city engaging on a number of different
issues that impact our citizens from a wide variety of different levels. So, with that I
would move that we approved the UDC text amendment, H-2017-0044.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and second. Any discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Congratulations. I -- I appreciate the thoughtful approach you
had and, yeah, we went back in the work group, as Mr. Cavener said, it was productive.
It sounds like good discussion and in the end you came up with a product that everyone
could get behind. So, thank you. I appreciate that.
D. Public Hearing for Swindell Subdivision (H-2017-0145) by
Volante Investments, LLLP is located off the northwest corner
of S. Locust Grove Road and E. Overland Road
1. Request: Modification to the development agreement (Inst.
#2016- 045074) to include a conceptual development plan
and building elevations
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-D is a public hearing for H-2017-0145. I will opened the
public hearing with staff comments.
Beach: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is an application for a
development agreement modification. This site consists of approximately 20 acres of
land, which is zoned C-C, located off the northwest corner of South Locust Grove Road
and East Overland Road. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is
mixed use community. The property in 2015 -- this property in 2015 -- with a
requirement of a DA -- the DA did not include a conceptual development plan and was
required to be amended to include one prior to any development occurring on the site.
Being elevations were also required to be submitted that are consistent in design and
incorporate some of the same design elements and construction materials to unify the
development in accord with the Comprehensive Plan for mixed use designated areas.
Further, they should reflect design elements suited for commercial, rather than industrial
developments. I will show you -- this is the proposed conceptual development plan
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proposed to be included with the development agreement, as well as some conceptual
building elevations in here. So, the request is to amend the development agreement to
include the conceptual development plans and update the building elevations for the
site as required by the original development agreement. So, the proposed concept plan
depicts two locations where the access is and drive aisles in accord with the UDC.
Structure and site design standards, staff recommends additional provisions are added
to the DA to assure compliance with parking and building layout on the site. The
applicant has submitted different building elevations than were originally submitted with
the application. These elevations incorporate more of the same design elements and
construction materials, unify the development as required. Final design is required to
comply with the standards in the architectural standards manual. Written testimony was
received by Brad Miller of Van Auker Companies, the applicant's representative. That
was his response to the staff report. I will say that staff did add provision number 5.1.
The applicant -- excuse me. The applicant objects to provision number five, acquiring
the cross-access between all of the lots for interconnectivity and their argument is
because all lots are accessed via a local street and staff is agreeable to removing that
provision as it's not required if it's on a local street. With that I will stand for any
questions you may have.
Bird: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff at this time? If not, Mr. Miller, you
want to come up? Nice to see you.
Miller: Nice to see you, Councilman Bird. Councilman Bird, Members of the Council,
my name is Brad Miller with Van Auker Companies. 3084 East Lanark in Meridian. I
thank you for your time in hearing this and thank you for your service as well and
congress -- congressman. Councilman Bird --
Bird: No, I don't want to be that.
Miller: I hate to see you go, because you have been a great asset to the city and I really
appreciate all that you have done.
Bird: Thank you, Brad.
Miller: So, one point of clarification on this subdivision is -- is Ms. Sonya calls it Swindle
Subdivision. It's called Swindell Subdivision, which is a tribute to the people who we
bought it from, the Swindell family, and it's just a small subdivision around the Maverik
on the corner of Locust Grove and Overland. When we originally did the application
and development agreement we did not have elevations and the conceptual site plan,
so we have added that. We would like to ask for your approval. It doesn't make sense
to have the vehicular interconnectivity there. I told Sonya that we would try to do it on
the north portion where we have the larger lots, but on the south portion around the
Maverik it just doesn't make any sense. So, I respectfully ask for your approval on this
tonight and would stand for any questions.
Bird: Any questions for Mr. Miller?
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December 5, 2017
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Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Little Roberts: Brad, can -- can you walk me through why it doesn't make sense to have
the interconnectivity?
Miller: If you will pull up the site plan I will sure show you. Or the conceptual site plan.
Yeah. So right there. So, you look at -- you have got the Maverik on the corner there --
Cavener: Uh-huh.
Miller: -- and -- and there is no way to get from the Maverik to -- and I don't know what
lot that is right there directly to the north, but there is no way to get to the Maverik --
from the Maverik to either of those lots. Plus we wouldn't -- one of the -- one of the
suggestions of staff -- staff originally was that we would have interconnectivity with the
Maverik and we successfully presented to staff and Council that that wouldn't make
sense, because people coming and going from a convenience store, you don't
necessarily want driving through your office building, parking lot, because it is excessive
traffic and -- and can be a little bit busy. But if you look at those four lots right around
the Maverik, I mean it just doesn't make any sense to have any interconnectivity there. I
don't know how you would do it. And also I don't know why it would make sense. Yeah,
you could put it right there, but the ACHD did not -- did not make it a requirement.
Interconnectivity is a requirement if you're on an arterial. This is a collector and it's not
going to be a busy road. So, I don't think it makes -- is any issue with pulling out of one
driveway and into another if someone has to do that.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Borton: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just one briefly, Brad. Is that a -- just a concrete curb that separates the lot --
would that be cross-access?
Miller: Mr. President, Council Person Borton, that would be a landscape -- we would
propose a landscape strip. I mean the code would require us to landscape between the
-- on the property line between the buildings. But you can see on the north there -- I
mean there is more room there and it probably would make sense to have
interconnectivity there.
Bird: Any other questions? Thanks, Brad.
Miller: Thank you very much. I appreciate your time.
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December 5, 2017
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Bird: Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Mr. President. On the public hearing sign-in sheet there were two.
Kevin and June Gates signed up as neutral with no indication of testimony. And that
was all for the sign-ups.
De Weerd: Okay. This is the public hearing. Is there any member of the public who
wishes to testify? Council, any questions for staff or further questions for the applicant?
Seeing none --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing how we are done I guess with the public and the applicant don't want to
talk anymore, I move that we close the public hearing for H-2017-0145.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve H-2017-0145 and eliminate the DA provision number 5-E -- is
that right? Recommended by staff.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the modification. Any discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: The reason -- was it 5.1E?
Bird: Yeah. Or whatever it is. I don't have my glasses on.
Borton: E-I. E-I, so --
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De Weerd: EIEIO. Okay. Any further discussion or clarification? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE NAY.
E. Public Hearing for Rapid Creek Subdivision (H-2017-0117) by
WH Pacific located near the Southwest Corner of W. McMillan
Road and N. Black Cat Road
1. Request: Annexation and zoning of 23.02 acres of land with
an R-8 zoning district;
2. Request: Preliminary plat consisting of 93 building lots and
11 common lots on 21.02 acres of land in a proposed R-8
zoning district
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 9-E is a public hearing for H-2017-0117. I will open up
this public hearing with staff comments.
Beach: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is an application, as you said, for
Rapid Creek Subdivision. It is both annexation and zoning and for a preliminary plat.
The site consists of approximately 21.02 acres of land, which is currently zoned RUT,
located at 4435, 4323 and 4145 North Black Cat Road. As this is proposed to be
annexed there is no current city history with this property. The Comprehensive Plan
future land use map designation is medium density residential. The applicant has
applied for annexation of it, it's at 21.02 acres of land from RUT to the R-8 zoning
district and for development of 93 new single family residential detached homes. As I
said, the plat consists of 93 residential building lots and 11 common lots in the R-8
zoning district. Lots range in size from 4,060 square feet to 9,981 square feet, with an
average lot size of 5,692. The gross density for the subdivision is 4.42 units per acre,
which is consistent with the medium density residential designation. The property is
proposed to develop in two phases as shown on the subdivision plat, which I will show
you here. The dark line through the center here would be the phasing. Access is
proposed for the site via the extension of an existing stub street, North Brookstone
Avenue, at the north boundary of the site from the Oak Creek Subdivision and from the
proposed connection to North Black Cat Road and a minimum of 2.10 acres of qualified
open space is required to be provided for code. The applicant is proposing 2.98 acres
or approximately 14.2 percent qualified open space. A minimum of two qualified site
amenities are required. The applicant is proposing to provide a tot lot and the half-court
basketball court and a section of the city's regional pathway. Staff is supportive of the
proposed amenities. Staff recommends the pathway be extended north along North
Black Cat Road to the intersection of West Belltower Drive and North Black Cat Road in
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order to accommodate a better crossing to the east side of North Black Cat Road.
Discussions at the Planning and Zoning Commission -- I believe they recommended
approval without that connection, but staff's recommendation was that it -- the pathway
be constructed and that a better crossing would be at the intersection there. Five Mile
Creek runs along the southern boundary of the site. The UDC requires natural
waterways, like the Five Mile Creek, to be left open as natural amenities. The applicant
is requesting that the File Mile Creek be left open in the -- improve with the adjacent
landscaping and that pathway. The applicant has submitted ten conceptual building
elevations. This is the landscape plan with the pathway shown along the creek on the
south side. The conceptual building elevations for future homes in the development,
building materials appear to be a mix of horizontal and vertical lap and shake siding,
with stone or brick accents and asphalt shingles. The condition, as I said, is to
recommend approval. Summary of the Commission public hearing. Jane Suggs, the
applicant's representative, was in favor, as well as Linda Harger. In opposition were
Carolyn Taylor, Jim Reed, Laura Longshaw, Matthew -- I believe Crispin is the last
name. Again, were the same folks that commented, as well as John Tessin. Written
testimony was received by Bev Tessin and James Reed. I was the staff that presented
the application. Additional testimony from staff was from Bill Parsons. Key issues of
public testimony were concerns about losing the wildlife that utilize the property.
Concerns about construction traffic through existing neighborhoods. Concerns about
the amount of open space being proposed for the development and that it will not be
sufficient for those residents. Concerns regarding the proposed change in elevation for
the property and how that will impact the adjacent lots. Issues of discussion by the
commission were whether or not the subject property contains, quote, unquote,
wetlands and what impact that design -- that designation would have on the proposed
subdivision. The Commission changes to staff recommendation. There were none.
There are no outstanding issues for City Council. We did receive, as I said, additional
testimony from James Reed since the Planning and Zoning Commission. With that I will
stand for any questions you have on that application.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions for the -- for staff at this time?
Bird: I have none, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Good evening. If you will state your name and address for the
record.
Suggs: Good evening, Mayor and Council. My name is Jane Suggs. I work at W.H.
Pacific, 2141 Airport Way in Boise and I'm here representing the Rapid Creek
Subdivision and the current owners of the property Ms. Linda Harger and Viper
Investments. As usual Josh has done a really good job. He's gone over the highlights
of the project -- project. I'm going to give you a little quick overview, too, and it's late, so
bear with me if I yawn in the middle of this. I will answer any questions. We brought
some key members of our development team with us. David Bailey with Bailey
Engineering was our project engineer. David Kordiyak is with The Wetlands Group,
because of the potential wetlands on the property, and they are here to answer
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December 5, 2017
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questions. Shawn Brownlee is representing the developer and Ms. Linda Hager is also
here to provide some testimony after our presentation. Josh, like I said, gave you
specifics of the property. Here is Rapid Creek. This is a much more attractive
rendering of the landscape plan. The property is located just south of the Oak Creek
property. In fact, you just approved tonight two final plats for Oaks South, which is to
the west of us. So, they are our neighbors. Thank you for that. we are across the
street also from the City of Meridian North Black Cat lift station. As Josh explained and
as our staff report shows, we are requesting annexation and zoning and we meet the
Comprehensive Plan for medium density. That's an R-8 zone with three to eight
dwelling units per acre. Our project is 93 dwelling units on 21.02 acres or 4.4 dwelling
units per acre. So, right in the lower end of that. We have designed the subdivision to
provide single family homes. They are standard single family homes. But we also have
this nice cluster you will see in the middle of 23 rear-loaded lots. So, these are
detached single family homes, but they will front on this open space to the south and to
the north. We have an extra wide kind of yard there along our northern street. These
homes front on the open space and as he explained we also have the amenities of what
we are now finding out is a half basketball court, which is kind of a favorite amenity
these days, and tot lot. We have plenty of open space, over three acres of open space,
with the usable open space coming on at 14 percent of the property -- of the project.
Amenities. We talked about that. The lawn -- large lawn area. We are continuing the
regional pathway that runs along Five Mile Creek along our southern border. We have
reviewed all the conditions of approval and we agree with all of them. So, we are
building to your unified development code. We meeting your Comprehensive Plan. We
agree with all the conditions of approval. There was some concern in our process about
potential wetlands on the property. If you might know this property, this was an area
Ms. Harger had a kennel and she trained dog, so she dug out a pond on her property,
fed it with irrigation water. The pond has been drained and the irrigation water for the
pond has been turned off. We have been monitoring the water depths now for several
months on the property and since the irrigation water is turned off the groundwater
depths have dropped significantly. So, where the groundwater was really close to the
surface, it's now two to three feet deep. You might not know this, because you probably
dealt with this on even some city projects, but have to have three things present for
wetlands to exist. That's the water, hydric soils, and the wetlands plants. The site has
been evaluated by a wetlands consultant, that's Mr. Kordiyak, and he has actually
delineated what could be potential wetlands. That doesn't mean they are. It means
there could be potential ones, because maybe there are wetlands plants. To see if
these indicators are there, as you know the Corps of Engineers actually has the
jurisdiction over wetlands so they will determine if there are any wetlands on the
property. However, we don't have their decision yet, but we do know that if there are
any wetlands on the property we will mitigate for them in a wetlands bank. According to
the wetlands mitigation report that we have -- that was prepared by our consultant and
given to the staff and also forwarded to the P&Z, P&Z became very comfortable with the
work that was being done by the wetlands consultant. The minimal amount of potential
wetlands on the property -- and knowing that the wetlands bank is the best place to
mitigate for wetlands, it doesn't make sense to -- to mitigate for a quarter acre of
wetlands in the middle of a subdivision, so -- and that's how the wetland banks work.
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December 5, 2017
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So, we are committed and we have written to the city, went to the staff, a letter that's in
your package. The developer has committed that there will be no changes to this plan,
whether they are wetlands are not, because their forester hasn't made any
determination that they actually are, because the Corps of Engineers has not rendered
that decision, but we are committed that this plan will not change. So, I think that was
one of the things that wanted -- that the P&Z really wanted to hear is that there was a
commitment that the plan would not change. They didn't want to see this again. So,
they voted unanimously to approve recommendation to you to approve the project and I
will respectfully ask for your approval of our annexation, rezone, and preliminary plat for
Rapid Creek Subdivision. So, stand for questions. And my other cohorts could answer
questions if they are more technical.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions at this time?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Jane, when do you anticipate hearing from the Corps?
Suggs: Their workload is crazy busy right now because of all the development that's
happening all over, so it could be a few months before we hear. It's not something
that's right around the corner, so that's why we are continuing forward and with the
commitment that based on the wetlands report that was in your -- should have been in
your package, there is such a minor amount that could possibly even be considered
wetlands that we were very confident that should those wetlands be established as --
considered as wetlands by the Corps we can mitigate offsite.
De Weerd: Any follow up? Okay. Thank you.
Suggs: Thank you.
Coles Signed up this evening for public hearing Carolyn Taylor is signed up against,
wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Taylor: Caroline Taylor. 4923 West Torana Street.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Taylor: And I just had a couple of concerns. We would like a little bit more usable open
space, if that would be possible, and we are also concerned about the extreme density
of the townhouses in the center. We feel that it's going to be a lot of families in a very
small space and if I was going to buy a home in the neighborhood, we definitely would
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December 5, 2017
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want a little more open space for dogs and for children. That's all I have to say. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Carolyn.
Coles: Virgil Ivy signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for sticking with us. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Ivy: Madam Mayor, Council Members --
De Weerd: Can you pull the mic over a little closer.
Ivy: Madam Mayor, Council Members, my name is Virgil Ivy. I live at 4364 North Elisha
Avenue in the Oaks Subdivision, which is adjacent to this proposed development and
my understanding is it has not -- the development has not had the final approval yet; is
that correct?
De Weerd: That's correct.
Ivy: And they were talking about draining the pond. I have some recent photographs.
Is it permissible to hand one of these to each member?
De Weerd: If you would like to hand it to staff we can put it up on a projector. Thank
you. We will get that up on the screen, so even those in the audience can see it as well.
Ivy: At the last public hearing that I attended sometime in October, there were two
issues -- two different issues and concerns. One was concern about the water table,
the drainage, and the necessary fill dirt to fill up the existing pond. Another concern was
for the property owner who owns the property, who has a legal right to sell the property,
I would like to offer a suggestion that possibly could resolve both of these issues. What
if the city -- or the city-county were to purchase the property and convert it into a wildlife
park. The owner would get the sale of the property and the issue with the water table
and drainage would be resolved. Possibly there could be a change or a revision in the
proposed development. How about the city or the city-county partnering with the
developer and having them build around the periphery and leaving the pond intact.
That would be an option. There are numerous commercial and residential development
for miles around in every direction. Urban sprawl is devouring much of the existing land
seemingly without regard to open space. Traffic conditions are worsening. The
infrastructure in Meridian is struggling to keep up, yet the city continues to allow for new
developments at every opportunity and it's beginning to feel like we are packed in like
sardines. What if -- what are the negative consequences of this? Studies by behavioral
psychologists have shown that overcrowding leads to aggressive behavior, stress, and
has a negative impact on the health of people. Shouldn't there be a balance between
residential, commercial developments and public open space, including space that we
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December 5, 2017
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preserve for wildlife habitat? The Planning and Zoning Commission has a perfect
opportunity to consider these 21 acres as a place for a wildlife park, particularly since
the site already has a pond. It is the duty of the Commission to act for the benefit of all
the citizens. There are many species of wildlife that call this pond and the surrounding
land their home. I am particularly fond of the ducks. They deserve someone who will
speak up for them. They do not have a voice in this matter. So, I want to be the voice
for the ducks. Humans continue to take over and develop the land, forcing wildlife out
of their habitat and even, then, with fewer resources. We share this earth with so many
amazing species of wildlife and we need to have more consideration for them and
preserve and protect their habitat. I live in the Oak Creek Subdivision and one of the
best parts of being a resident, at least for me, is seeing the ducks and hearing their
joyful clacking. If you haven't been to the pond I urge you to take a moment, drive out
there in the evening or on a weekend and watch the ducks as they engage and play --
playful behavior on the pond. You will surely hear their exuberant clacking. It is a
refreshing and enchanting sound. I would be willing to make a personal financial
contribution to help develop the wildlife park if that's possible and in some way maybe
we could consider -- or the Council consider a -- some way to support a levy designated
to develop open spaces and development the open spaces among all of the commercial
and residential development that is going up in the valley --
De Weerd: Mr. Ivy, could you, please, summarize.
Ivy: Please consider this and don't let this golden opportunity for Meridian slip away.
Let's hold onto this beautiful space and pond and preserve the habitat for the abundant
species that live there. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Ivy: And if anybody wants a copy of the photograph --
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Ivy. You have a question, Mr. Palmer?
Palmer: What was your address again?
Ivy: 4364 North Elisha Avenue.
Palmer: Okay.
Ivy: I'm on the west side adjacent to the development -- proposed development.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? It's a -- is your subdivision brand new?
Ivy: Yes.
Palmer: Okay. Thanks.
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December 5, 2017
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De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Sir, your subdivision is --
De Weerd: Mr. Ivy, right here.
Bird: Your subdivision is --
De Weerd: I do that all the time.
Bird: -- is new; right?
Ivy: Yes.
Bird: How long have you lived here?
Ivy: I have lived there since July.
Bird: Since July.
Ivy: Uh-huh.
Bird: So, you have seen -- the pond has been there.
Ivy: Yes.
Bird: But I can tell you I don't know exactly when, but I know when Dave McGinnis had
it out there with the pointers and stuff it was just nothing but a field. That is a manmade
pond. That isn't -- water table in Meridian is notably high. It is going down because as
we get rid of the flood irrigation and the less farming, but that pond is no way, shape or
form a natural pond that's been out there. That used to be just a field where they train
pointers.
Ivy: I understand that. That's correct. But there is a lot of wildlife there now. If you -- I
guess if it -- there it is. And they claim they have drained it, but there is still a lot of
water there and there is a lot of habit -- ducks, wildlife habitat there all the time. There
is also a horse and several cattle. I don't know if anyone knows, but I'm just saying that,
you know, there is a lot of development around and I hope the City Council will consider
some open spaces along with the commercial and residential development and this
would be a perfect opportunity, because the pond is already there. I know it isn't
natural, but it's there.
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De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Ivy.
Ivy: Thank you.
Coles: Fred DeBolt signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. John Tessin signed up
against, wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here. If you will, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Tessin: Certainly. My name is John Tessin. I live at 4342 North Elisha Avenue.
Actually, I'm Virgil's neighbor. A couple of things. I want to start out, first of all -- and
the invocation was very well put -- requesting wisdom from everybody here. These are
difficult tasks and based on the growth of Meridian I can say you have done a very good
job up to this point, so you have done a great job and I'm asking for wisdom now,
because this is a point, just like we have heard the road problems earlier on, you can't --
it's hard to go back. This is the time we have to have forward vision. So, I want to
come up with a couple of things I want to talk about. Number one, the unanimous
Planning and Zoning Commission included three missing people on that commission
and that should be noted that there is actually three people that were missing at the
time of the final vote, which was the third meeting on this -- on this issue. The first one
had a very nice sign set up saying this is the date for the Planning and Zoning
Commission meeting. The two follow-up meetings did not have that -- that word change
and it was very poorly attended by the citizens. Anyway, there is a lot of talk about the
communications of meetings and this was a swing and a miss in my opinion. But
moving on, for the record I want to make sure that the City Council understands that this
would be the lake, even though it was man made, was artificial, was drained and the
testing of the water level was done after the draining of the pond, which it really hasn't
gone down as many feet as you think. The groundwater had been seeping into the
pond and, then, drained into the irrigation canal and that leads me into my final point
that I want to talk about and that is my unofficial viewing. There is a lot of people from
California moving into Meridian and the Boise area. It's a fact. I look at license plates
and with the people from California comes the -- really comes the behavior of California
also and I can tell you that California has a very strong construction defect litigation
mentality. It's just a fact. I know people in the business. So, when defects occur in new
construction, the liability period can be extended up to ten years and during that ten
year process if the -- if the builder, the developer, decides that through economic
downturn in the housing or financial markets they decide to bail out, I can tell you that
the responsibility does fall into the taxpayers of the city, which is me and everybody else
that's here, and I think that in making this look right you really have to look at this whole
groundwater issue, it's very high, and I think from a future liability issue you need to look
at this in order to protect the stockholders of the city. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Tessin: Any questions?
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De Weerd: Any questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Sir, given the -- it looks like you back up to the body of water?
Tessin: Yes.
Palmer: Have you had any groundwater issues with your home?
Tessin: No. We are built considerably up over it. We are -- as a matter of fact, they
had to bring in substantial amount of fill in order to get us off the flood plain. We are
right at it right now. But my understanding is that they are changing the construction
from a crawl space type construction into a flat slab, which means they are closer --
they are anticipating closer to the ground water than would allow a floor -- a crawlspace
construction to allow.
Palmer: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, sir.
Tessin: You're welcome.
Coles: Bev Tessin also signed up against, not wishing to testify. Glen Crispin signed
up against, not wishing to testify. Linda Harger signed up in favor, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Harger: Good evening. Linda Harger. 4435 North Black Cat Road.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Harger: I own ten of these acres that they are talking about. I moved here in 1985. I
train and raise dogs. I knew Dave. I bought the property from his widow specifically to
have an area that I could train my dogs. I built those ponds for dog training. I have kept
them full of water. I have let migratory birds come through. They leave in the winter.
They will be gone in another week. The water will be completely gone as soon as there
is the first freeze and the ground opens up. This has been the way it's been since I built
them. So, that's my story on the water. If the city wanted to buy it from me, fine, but I
can't train dogs there. I haven't walked in my back pasture since July. I put the -- my
friends' horses and cattle out there to keep the weeds down, because I can't go out
there. I have no view anymore. I see nothing but houses. I can't train my dogs back
out there. It has -- it's become useless to me. I need to sell. I need to move so that I
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can enjoy my life and continue to do what I want to do. I would appreciate it if you
would let them buy the property from me. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Harger: Do you have any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Mr. Bird.
Bird: How deep -- how deep are your ponds?
Harger: They were built at three and a half feet.
Bird: Three and a half feet.
Harger: There are some places that are now four, because -- and, then, actually there
is some places that are now just two because of the silt.
Bird: The silt come in.
Harger: And they were built specifically for a dog level of swimming.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Curtis Ellis signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. And David Lebree signed
up in favor, not wishing to testify. That concludes the sign-ups.
De Weerd: Thank you. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who hasn't testified?
Yes, sir.
B.Taylor: My name is -- my name is Bill Taylor and I live at 4923 Torana Street.
De Weerd: Thank you.
B.Taylor: My concern about this whole thing --
De Weerd: Sir, can I ask you to pull that mic up a little bit. Thank you.
B.Taylor: Okay. My concern is the access to the subdivision. You only got one access
on Black Cat. If you go north out of there through Oakstone, you got to make a
minimum of four turns to get to either Black Cat or McMillan. So, they would be driving
through the entire subdivision to get out on a main road and I think with that amount of
housing I think there should be another access somewheres in there, because that's
just one -- you know, one exit. Otherwise, they will be having to go through the
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subdivision and that's not a good thing. We have got a lot of kids that play in there and
if you go up Oakstone, you go up and you hit a park and, then, you have got to go
around the park to get to McMillan. So, that would be a concern. And, then, coming out
on Black Cat is a school bus stop. So, that's the concern I have.
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you for your service.
B.Taylor: Well, thank you very much. I appreciate that. And no questions?
De Weerd: No. Thank you.
B.Taylor: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any further testimony? Okay. Jane.
Suggs: Mayor and Council, again, Jane Suggs representing Rapid Creek Subdivision.
I just want to address one by one each of the responses that -- each of the folks that
talked about the project. I appreciate them coming out. As we talked and I have sent
out some e-mails since our neighborhood meeting to our neighbors just to make sure
that they know -- we did have a cancellation of a P&Z meeting and, then, we had two
P&Z meetings. So, one P&Z meeting was just a deferral to the next and the
requirements aren't to change the sign, because they happen pretty quickly after that.
So, the notification is very minimal. If you have attended the P&Z meeting you know
about that. Let's talk about Mrs. Taylor who said she was concerned about the density
and we particularly put the more dense project -- part of the project in the middle. We
didn't want to put it up against the pathway or against our neighbors, so we pretty much
match our neighbors with the backyards, maybe a little bit off, but the denser project is
in the center and I think that's what you like to see, you like to see that transition, so that
you don't have the two story smaller homes against any larger properties. One of the
things that's come up a couple of -- with a couple of -- we will be filling in this property
and it will have to be filled quite a bit. The other properties around us were filled as they
mentioned, because there is groundwater issues and just because we need to match
what's out there, so we will gently slope from the north to the south, so we won't have a
drop off at the creek -- at Five Mile Creek, but there will be probably three to four feet of
fill along the north boundary, because right now there is like a railroad tie wall where
they filled in and stopped, basically, and had to put a wall up to fill in the property just
north of us. So, we would be doing that. And the footings that we use, the spread
footings, are actually preferred. In fact, I think in the staff report there might even be a
comment from our engineer -- from your engineer that said that they like the fact that
they are using -- we are using spread footings, because that eliminates the issue of
getting water in your crawl space. So, that is the preferred method of construction when
you have high groundwater, which you know is prevalent in that area. I think Linda has
kind of addressed the wildlife. Yeah, I mean anytime you have a body of water you're
going to have wildlife occasionally, but probably not when the dogs are out, because
they are not going to be there when the dogs are running after wildlife. So, again, I
know communication has been a big deal and one of the things I like to say is I try to
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keep the neighbors who contacted me and also kind come to the neighborhood
meeting, if they give me an e-mail address -- I don't call every one of them, but I do e-
mail those that give me e-mails to let them know of what's going on. When we have
made our application they get a copy of plans and plats, if they have done that. So,
that's just one thing we try to continue to do is to keep the people who are adjacent to
us involved and, as you pointed out, most of our neighbors are pretty new neighbors.
Most of those have been out there only less than a year or maybe a couple of years.
So, they are seeing the growth, they are seeing what happened to create their
subdivision, they are seeing it happen just -- just south of them. I don't know if I have
anything else to add. Oh. Accesses. We are accessing one access on Black Cat Road
and we have the connection from the stub street on Oakstone. The city -- ACHD did not
require a traffic study because of the number of units and said that that would be
completely adequate, because we are fronting on an arterial and it would be really hard,
actually, to get a couple of accesses on an arterial there. And as far as traffic goes, I
think most of the traffic is actually going to come from people in -- north of us that are
actually going to be coming through our subdivision to go south on Black Cat. So, more
likely most people will be, because Oakstone has an access to the north and to the
east, but I think if you want to go to the south you might go through the neighborhood a
little bit to get there and that's fine, that's what the interconnection we do -- the
connectivity does, it allows neighbors to connect with one another and sometimes,
yeah, occasionally there is people that will go through your neighborhood to get there,
but I think people using the Black Cat -- our construction will start at that location, too.
Josh showed you a phase line, but the phase one is coming off of Black Cat. Phase
two goes into the north and the west part of the site. So, I will answer any other
questions you might have or something I missed from some of the testimony.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jane. Any questions from Council?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: The rear loading houses in the middle --
Suggs: Yes.
Milam: -- those are detached single house --
Suggs: Yes.
Milam: -- they are not townhouses; correct?
Suggs: Not townhouses. You're right. There was a mention that these were
townhomes. No. They are detached homes. They are fairly narrow, but -- and you will
notice, too, that we are not using an alley, we are using the ACHD minor urban local
street, which gives the fire protection that's required whenever you're a little bit offset.
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Sort of like when we see these on the MEWS, when you have houses facing a MEWS
in an alley, the fire guys want to have a little bit wider street there, so we are building
those.
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: And is that a good radius as well for the garbage truck to --
Suggs: All of our radius check out. Yeah. They do. I will add something. In the ACHD
-- we did get ACHD's staff report -- I think in the staff -- your staff report it said we didn't,
but prior to our P&Z meeting we had an ACHD staff report and one of the things they
want us to do on the north street is do a little bulb out for traffic calming. So, we were
kind of surprised, because that's usually something your staff picks up, but ACHD
picked up that they want us to do that. We -- we will do that prior to the final plats in that
area and -- but we have already kind of passed that around with the staff to make sure
that it's okay. We will just do at that Oakstone corner some bulb outs that kind of
narrow the street a little bit, because we do have sort of a straight street there. Not very
long, but long enough that they said they wanted something.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Jane, can you walk me through the plan for -- if needed, this off-site
mitigation with the wetlands, what that looks like and how you do that? That's foreign to
me, so I'm curious to learn more.
Suggs: Well, I can tell you or I can ask our wetlands consultant to tell you my -- the
layman's term is that -- if the Corps of Engineers finds that there is some wetlands on
the property that need to be mitigated -- of course, I think without getting too
complicated, I have worked on another site where there were wetlands, but they were
so detached from any other wetlands that they said you don't need to mitigate. That
was a project in Eagle a long time ago. But they -- if there are -- is need to mitigate
there are ways to do it on site or off site. The Hyatt wetlands that are over there on
Chinden as you go up Maple -- is that Maple Grove? Is a perfect place where you can
actually purchase into the wetlands bank for expansion or to -- for improvements and
that's how you do your mitigation off site. So, you don't have to go and find a piece of
property yourself, there are actually properties out there that are already set up as
banks and you -- they are not cheap, but you buy your way into those things. Again,
when you're talking about a small piece of property, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense
to say -- let's say in -- I don't know if the mouse works -- so, if we ended up with say a
wetlands here, it wouldn't make sense to try to preserve some wetlands like in the
middle of a subdivision, because it's just not really practical to do that or usable, but the
-- the developer has made the commitment that any wetlands that have to be mitigated
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for, if they are found necessary, will be done in a wetland's bank and that's kind of a
preferred way I think that the wetlands experts like it, so that they can put these
wetlands in specific places where they have the most benefit to wildlife and to people,
too, because that Hyatt place is a beautiful place to walk. Do you want a little more
information from our wetlands consultant?
Cavener: That would be great. Yes.
De Weerd: And while he's coming up I mean that was a beautiful picture we saw, so I
would be curious, too, on your open space, why it couldn't be integrated into the design
there, so you can answer that. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Kordiyak: My name is Dave Kordiyak. I'm a wetland's biologist with The Wetlands
Group and we are at 100 South Star Road in Star, Idaho. I think the -- the best way to
explain a wetland mitigation bank is we actually work together with the Corps of
Engineers, the EPA, the DEQ, we get a team together and we present a site that we
want to make into wetlands. These probably -- a lot of times they used to wetlands and,
then, we procure that site and we make the wetlands ahead of time, so if you want to
purchase a tenth of an acre for a wetland credit, they have been made, they are already
mature and grown out and been passed through the court process. So, it kind of takes
away from the problem of having to look at a little postage stamp here and there and
see if they are making it and also like in our case we tried to concentrate on the Boise
River and try to keep the flood plains in order and we got a couple areas down there.
So, that's the wetland mitigation and it's growing wetlands ahead of time for the purpose
of replacing impacts and it's also guided by the Corps and the EPA, so that they are in
the proper areas and everybody is --
De Weerd: It sounds like a fun group. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, thank you. The applicant testified that maybe there is
wetlands, we are not quite sure. You're the experts. So, I guess enlighten us. Is it? Is
it not? When will we know?
Kordiyak: So, I delineated the site and to have wetlands you have to have water, plants
and soils and in this particular case you had an upland and they -- they, essentially, ran
all their irrigation water through that site 24/7, you know, throughout the year. As soon
as you shut that water off what happens is the water level -- what we saw in the
beginning of the year, because they were running the dogs and they had that pond
working, they had irrigation water and as soon as they shut it off it dropped a foot and a
half and, then, the groundwater dropped up to two feet in places and that, basically,
takes away the hydrology for most of the wetlands on the site. Now, there is some
concern maybe there is a tenth of an acre, that's a little low, the Corps has to, you know,
look at it, but that's how we come to that point. The water -- the water came from
irrigation and it can be shut off and, then, there is no water, no hydrology. And there is
groundwater in the area, but generally speaking to have a wetland -- wetland hydrology
your water needs to be within a foot of the surface for fourteen days a year and even
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that, you know, you're stretching if you're going to get a wetland out of that. I mean if
we could make wetlands with that it would be easy, but it takes a little more than that.
Usually you have to have some flooding, especially in the valley you see a lot of these
irrigation induced wetlands and it's -- it's a headache, but you have to go through it if -- if
the farmer runs his irrigation in the field -- his corn field and wetlands start gathering
there, if he shuts it off it just goes away and so they are -- they are -- basically they are
called manmade wetlands and if you shut the water off the wetland goes away, so -- but
the corps makes the final decision.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: These manmade wetlands and stuff, if -- if the water in circulation isn't enough,
aren't they really horrible about being breeding grounds for mosquitoes and all that?
Kordiyak: Yeah. Of course.
Bird: I mean for an amenity -- an amenity inside of a subdivision you want a breeding
ground for -- for all that? I mean a natural wetlands has got to have some flowing water.
Kordiyak: Yeah.
Bird: And like you said, when -- when they shut the ditch off it's -- it's -- it goes dry.
Kordiyak: Right.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just one. We don't get wetlands folks here frequently, so -- so, is this a fair
summary, that if a project like this has, through the Army Corps of investigation that you
have talked about, it has some wetlands component of some amount, that your options
are to keep it and maintain it or what it sounds like the path is here, scrape it, fill it, cover
it, and wetlands are gone and in lieu of maintaining it you write a check, the proceeds of
which fund some wetland system somewhere else?
Kordiyak: Well, that's --
Borton: Is that too brief?
Kordiyak: That's a little brief, but I would say if you have a well on a site you have to file
a permit and you have to look at that wetland and say I'm going to mitigate for that and,
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then, you purchase from a wetland that we have or whoever else in the valley, where
they are concentrated and they felt they need more wetland work and it's a positive
place and, then, you move it or you can keep it in place, but --
Borton: Madam Mayor? So, I think we are saying -- I'm just curious. I think we are
saying the same thing.
Kordiyak: Yeah.
Borton: When -- when this application -- it will write a check, which will be applied
somewhere else, it won't own anything at the new location, it will just fund the additional
development of an existing wetlands somewhere else.
Kordiyak: Correct. There is a process set up. We own the property and take care of it
and we -- we relieve them of that duty and that's -- you know, that money goes into our
work and, then, also takes care of those wetlands into the future forever.
Borton: Madam Mayor. When you say we, we meaning you?
Kordiyak: The Wetlands Group.
Borton: The group that you're affiliated with?
Kordiyak: Yes. We have wetland stakes.
Borton: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess that brings up the question -- are there other wetland banks in
Meridian? Ms. Suggs referenced, you know, Maple Grove. It's kind of Garden City,
Boise area. I'm just --
Kordiyak: No, there aren't. They really -- the service area the Corps of Engineers
requires is that it would be in the Boise River watershed and this is included in that area.
So, it's in the watershed.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? This is a new one for us tonight.
Kordiyak: If people have questions, they are always welcome to call our office and we
can tell them what we know.
De Weerd: Thank you. Because this is the -- the first for Mr. Bird after 20 years of
hearing about a wetlands in Meridian, so --
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Suggs: Can I add one thing?
De Weerd: Uh-huh. Yes.
Suggs: I'm -- I'm surprised, too, because I will guarantee you there have been
developments in Meridian with wetlands and maybe they were not as transparent. No
wetlands ever that you know about? Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor? We have had some with high groundwater. In fact, I can show
you some that we have had some problems, but they haven't been considered
wetlands.
Suggs: Right. Right. Yeah. I was just before you not too long ago with the high
groundwater over in the north area where we were putting the pavers because of that.
So, yeah, this is something we are dealing with all along. But, again, this is -- it's a fairly
complicated process, but the response is simple and it comes down to the developer
committee to do whatever the Corps says and mitigating off site, so -- so -- and,
actually, that whole process is not really something that the city deals with at all, you
know, this is under the jurisdiction of the -- well, except for whether or not you're going
to improve the project, but -- but it's under the jurisdiction of the Corps of Engineers.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jane, I do have one question. The subdivision just north of you, are they R-4 or
R-8?
Suggs: I think -- I don't know. I was thinking --
De Weerd: Probably a good question for Josh.
Suggs: Yeah. I should know. I have it probably in my letter somewhere, but I don't
know it right off the --
Bird: Well, you were mentioning that you --
Suggs: Yes.
Bird: -- had made the -- the deal. It's what?
Beach: It is zoned R-8 to the north.
Bird: It's R-8, too? Dad gummit. Anyway. We -- my personal opinion we -- we need to
look at going back to a few more R-4s like we used to be in the '90s.
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Suggs: Well, we are right next to that lift station --
Bird: I know.
Suggs: -- and you know we want to use that thing, so --
Bird: And I thought that was an R-4.
De Weerd: Oh, my gosh.
Bird: Thank you, Jane, very much.
Suggs: Thank you very much and I respectfully request your approval.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Real quick question for you in light of Councilman Bird's comments. The other
projects where we have had high groundwater issues, do you know what -- what was
perhaps missed there that you're addressing in your project to ensure that we are not
going to have high groundwater problems?
Suggs: Fill and type of construction of the homes.
Borton: Okay.
Suggs: Slab construction and the filling of the lots, which will raise the finished ground
level, just like the properties above us did to raise the ground level above the
groundwater.
Borton: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: The one I was referring to, Councilman Borton, is out -- and it wasn't actually
where the buildings was built, it was out in their backyards and stuff it was because the
40 acres to the north was still being flood irrigated and so, consequently, their
backyards was getting -- their houses wasn't getting it, but their backyards was getting
filled up -- is the one I can remember.
De Weerd: Yeah. I think you have that around Thousand Springs. Yeah. Anything
further from Council? Okay.
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Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing how we don't need anymore public hearing, I move we close public
hearing H-2017-0117.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close public hearing on Item 9-E. All those
in favor say aye. Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe just a procedural question for staff. For Josh. So, there is this kind of
lingering response from the Army Corps of Engineers. I assume that we will have that
answer before they are back with a final plat or --
Beach: That's a great question. So, we can look at the staff report. I believe the
condition is that -- that we get that determined before a final plat can be submitted. We
don't want to be in the position of continuing this without that being --
Cavener: Right.
Beach: -- answered. And, then, the main thing from the Planning and Zoning
Commissioners, the reason why that was continued twice is because they were wanting
to -- to get that information before it got to Council and you heard from the applicant that
it might be a while before they know what that impact will be, so --
Cavener: Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I don't know if this is -- probably doesn't -- I don't know if it makes a difference,
but on the agenda this is listed as 23.02 acres and it's 21.02 acres everywhere else.
De Weerd: Anyone want to answer that?
Hood: I can speculate a little bit, Madam Mayor.
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Beach: While I look.
Hood: While Josh looks to just verify that it's not -- not a typo -- or just happens to be.
From time to time what may happen is the legal description for annexation and zoning --
we require them to go to the center line of the roadway. So, Black Cat. The preliminary
plat, though, is right of way that ACHD already has. The boundary of their plat will
come back some 25 to 48 feet. So, if it just happens to be approximately two acres of
right of way existing on Black Cat, your plat may not match your annexation. So, I don't
know that that's the case here, but you can have those discrepancies in any project, so -
-
Milam: So, on the summary it says 21.02.
Hood: Correct.
Milam: Annexation and zoning. But on the agenda it says --
De Weerd: I think Josh has an answer.
Milam: Okay.
Beach: So, the project description that we write when the application comes in lists the
annexation and zoning of 23.02 acres to R-8, but the plat, as Caleb indicated, is 21.02.
So, there is two separate -- the annexation at 23 and the preliminary plat of 21 and
change.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Council Member Milam, they are both -- so -- yeah. The 23 and the 21 are
both on the agenda. Annexation of 23 with the plat --
De Weerd: And her question is why are they different?
Milam: Well, no. No. I'm not actually on the agenda. So, here it says request
annexation and zoning of 23.02 acres, but on the summary over here it says request for
annexation and zoning -- same exact words -- 21.02.
Bird: And go to number two there and it says 21.0 -- with your right hand. In your right
hand.
Milam: Yes.
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Beach: Council Member Milam, you are correct. The summary that we have given to
you has --
Bird: Yeah.
Beach: -- a typo on it. Incorrect acreage. So, it was noticed correctly and the agenda
has it correct.
Milam: Okay. As long as we have the proper things the right way and -- I'm fine with
that. Thank you.
Hood: If I can just real quick for the audience, since they don't have that sheet, that's
what we lovingly refer to as a cheat sheet for you. So, Josh summarizes some that stuff
and it sounds like he made just that typo there. But, yeah, everything is officially typed
up correctly, but that's just kind of a summary sheet for you that has that -- that typo.
De Weerd: Just verifying that what was posted is what is on the application.
Milam: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If we are all done, I would move that we approve H-2017-0117 and include all
staff, applicant, and public testimony and hopefully we will have a Corps of Engineers
report by the time the final plat comes, but I wouldn't bet on it.
De Weerd: Is that part of your motion?
Bird: No. Take the last part out.
De Weerd: It was an editorial comment.
Bird: That was an editorial.
De Weerd: Okay.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Does anyone want to know what the motion
was? It was to approve this item.
Bird: It was to approve it.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no discussion, Mr. Clerk.
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Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. And thank you for hanging out with us this evening. I
appreciate you.
Item 10: Department Reports
A. Continued from November 14, 2017: Community
Development/Planning Division: Idaho Avenue Amenities -
Transfer of Ownership from Meridian Development
Corporation to City of Meridian and Next Steps
1. Resolution No. 17-2048: Joint Resolution of Meridian
Development Corporation and City of Meridian Signifying
Transfer by MDC and Acceptance by City of Idaho Avenue
Decks, Planters, and Bicycle Rack
De Weerd: Item 10-A is a continued discussion from -- from Caleb.
Hood: Thank you, Madam -- yeah. So, just a quick refresher. So, again, a few weeks
ago the same time the UDC meeting -- this item was on your agenda and we knew you
had one controversial -- or one that -- a couple of development projects that we
continued to this meeting and here we are again at 10:00 o'clock to talk about the follow
up to Idaho Avenue. So, just, again, a quick refresher. 2015 the city partnered with
MDC to co-fund improvements on Idaho Avenue, including some decking -- there is four
sixteen foot long deck platforms, two of them are consolidated to make a 32 foot long
platform, generally in vicinity of Pauly's Bar and Grill, some planters, some paint and
some candles and some other kind of ancillary improvements. Well, at that time that we
entered into the agreement with MDC we had all these provisions about how we would,
you know, codevelop this -- these interim improvements and amenities on the block, but
it didn't go as far as to -- to talk about who would own the amenities. So, what you have
before you tonight is kind of part B of this discussion. It is an agreement that the MDC
board has already signed off on to relinquish their interest in that real property, the
planters, the decks, the bike racks, to the city. It was continued out so that I could,
basically, attend the meeting with the property owners, developers, community business
owners and property owners on that block between Main and 2nd Street. That meeting
was, in fact, held on the 20th of November at 3:00 p.m. I didn't take a head count, but
there was about 15 people in attendance, excuse me, including myself, Ashley Squires
from MDC and Nick with Unbound. Also the MDC president. So, what we did at that
meeting was, basically, you know, tell people, you know, that we wanted to hear from
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December 5, 2017
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them, how they thought it was going out there. We did hand out a questionnaire to
those in attendance and also shared digital copies with -- with Nick to distribute to those
that weren't there and, then, some of the neighbors that were there. That block was
pretty well represented. The bank. The 127. We had -- Tribute Media was there. Joe
Kozlowski, the attorney's office -- I'm not going to name everyone that was there, but
pretty much everyone took extras to give to their neighbors that weren't there present.
Essentially, what we decided to do was to have MDBA take the lead on this, since there
is a downtown business owners association, so Nick is -- has given folks until the 15th
of July -- of July -- of December to fill out the questionnaire and send it back to him. I
have also received one and I forwarded it on to Nick and, then, the MDBA is going to
figure out what they would like to do next and they will petition you, if you will, with any
changes they'd like to see out there. So, really, at this point city staff is tracking it and
part of the process, but it's really being led by the downtown business owners
association. So, that's kind of one thing. The other part, though, that, again, is part B of
tonight, we still think that, as city staff, that it's in our best interest to go ahead and take
on these assets that are out there on the block. That way when the MDBA does petition
us, eventually, we can control what to do with those assets. If we want to -- if you all
think it's best to just store them at parks or dedicate them to somebody else or move
them to another block or whatever, it's -- at least you control that; right? We don't have
to have another entity also agree to do that. So, we would still request, even though it's
still kind undetermined on what the next steps are, taking on this ownership and clearing
that up makes sense and I know you guys are making eye contact with the parks
director. I will -- Mike Barton has been involved, although not the director, and he -- he
understands this and I have to assume some of that's been related to Steve. Again, we
don't know what will happen. I know Mike does share a concern about tripping over the
stuff if it does happen to end up out there. We could, you know, designate it as surplus
and donate to somebody, too, if there is not a better use for it, but more to come I think
on that. But, again, long story short, we would like you to approve the joint resolution
that is on your agenda tonight. But I will stand for questions first.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb. Council, any questions? Steve, do you have anything
you want to add? I don't mean to put you on the spot, but you -- you waited all this time.
Siddoway: All this time. No. I think we are willing to be a team player with whatever
needs to happen. So, I think it's fine what's being proposed. My kind of sarcastic
shaking of the head was just that I don't think they should be just stored long term at the
parks maintenance shop without an intended use or home. We have needs for the
storage space, so if it's not going to be used -- let's use it or get rid of it, but we are
happy to help out however we can.
De Weerd: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor, Steve, is there any conceivable use that you can think of the
parks would have for them, off the top of your head or if you have had time to ponder on
it?
Siddoway: I don't know of a use, other than what they are. So, I don't know if there
would be another location, but, you know, they were intended as parklets for seating
areas in the parking areas along the downtown streets. So, uses beyond that I would
defer to planning.
De Weerd: Well, we will see what the downtown business owners come back with.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Caleb, are they tapered on the bottom or are they -- they are flat? Could they
be put on a flat surface and be a flat stage?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, they could. So, what actually happened --
part of the cost was some grinding of the existing asphalt on the road to level them out.
So, the decking themselves are -- if you had a flat surface that would sit flat on that
surface and they are relatively flat there now, although that's some of the comments we
got from folks on that meeting on the 20th was they are flat, but you have got a pretty
good crown to that road and so the rest of the blue area is sort of unusable, because it's
ten degrees -- whatever that is, so -- but, yeah, to answer your question, the
modifications really haven't been to the platforms themselves, they have been to the
roadway to make them sit flush with the curb. So, they could be -- just brainstorming.
We haven't -- because we kind of want to see what MDBA -- but you could put -- again,
we have four sections of 16 foot long by five and a half foot wide. So, you could make a
stage or whatever out of them if you put them all -- or you could put them all together
and that's one of the options that at least was discussed for a little bit on the 20th -- well,
it didn't make sense to some people to have one section here, go another 50 feet, have
another section and, then, another 40 and you got another. Why not consolidate them
all together and that gives you something that's of substance together on one part of the
block or the other. Whoever is willing to actually use it, so -- sorry, I'm getting off of your
question. No. The decks could be reused, so -- it's a flat platform.
Palmer: Thanks.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Caleb, I'm so happy that you convinced the downtown association to take the lead
of this. This is who should be doing it and I'm for this resolution for one reason is there
is no reason that they have to come back to two different public entities with whatever
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December 5, 2017
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they do. Let's make the pass resolution 17-2048 and they can come to Meridian and tell
you what they want do with it, don't have to come back through MDC.
Milam: Is that a motion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
Bird: That's a motion.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second and, Mr. Palmer, a comment?
Palmer: Just a waste of time comment here. Another way to satisfy that concern,
Councilman Bird, would be to eliminate MDC? Just saying.
Bird: What?
Milam: He said eliminate MDC.
Bird: Didn't hear him.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the resolution --
Bird: 17-2048.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no other comments, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, abstain; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN.
B. Fire Department: Budget Amendment for Exhaust Carcinogen
Testing Not-to-Exceed $4,000
De Weerd: Item 10-B is under our Fire Department. I will turn this over to Chief
Niemeyer.
Niemeyer: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, good evening. I was going to crack a
joke that I had 42 slides and I'm now too tired to even crack that joke. So, I will just kind
of move forward. We are requesting a budget amendment. As you know, I don't like
doing these unless the circumstances dictate. So, this is a budget amendment not to
exceed 4,000 to get emissions testing done at our fire stations. This came about two
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fold. One is we are designing Station Six. We know it's been this way for the last 14,
15 years that diesel exhaust is a carcinogen. That's been developed by OSHA and by
the scientific community. As we discussed Station Six, we discussed what system do
we want to put in place to remove the vehicle exhaust. We started looking at our other
five stations. They have air exhaust fans that when the garage door opens the fan in
the wall kicks on. I have searched everywhere in our documentation to understand why
we put those fans in, as opposed to hose systems that are most common in fire
departments across -- not only this valley, but across the west. Trying to gather data on
what are those fans supposed to do. Why did we put them in. Can't find anything. So,
with that we engaged the state of Idaho DEQ. They referred us over to a firm that does
emissions testing and carbon testing. We started out with the idea of testing five
stations that initial bid was 54,000 dollars. I have 10,000 dollars in my base budget for
professional services. We dwindled that down to two stations, Station One and Station
Three, where we are going to test multiple apparatus, both new and older, to run a
standard test on our apparatus. We will also be testing the fan systems in our existing
stations to learn are they doing what they were intended to do, meaning are they pulling
the exhaust out of the bays or not or do we need a hose system. So, two fold. This will
give us information to know what we should be putting in Fire Station Six as far as
diesel exhaust and based on the results do we need to modify our existing fire stations
with better diesel exhaust systems. So, with that that's the 4,000 dollars. The total bid
was 13,980. That's why we put a not to exceed 4,000 dollars to add to my base budget.
With that I would stand for any questions.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mark, I can't remember on the fans what -- are they -- they are exhaust fans,
aren't they? They are not -- that are not pushing fans, are they?
Niemeyer: They are a -- they are a pulling fan.
Bird: Okay. They exhaust and they were supposed to take all that out.
Niemeyer: That's a theory.
Bird: Theory, yeah.
Niemeyer: We never had them tested.
Bird: How many have we got in each -- like that three bay.
Niemeyer: Just one.
Bird: That's one. We just got the one in there, don't we?
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December 5, 2017
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Niemeyer: Just one. Yeah. And there is questions about whether they are working or
not. As you recall, part of our G100 replacement was to do some painting in the bays.
If you look at our bays they are pretty black in areas. So, we know we have soot built
up. Now, whether -- what's in that we don't know. I'm not a scientist, so I wouldn't even
begin to take a guess. But that's part of what we are getting tested.
Bird: And what is -- and as I understand from fellow councilmen, they got -- or maybe --
maybe from one of your deputies, that they have a hose that we hook on and it's pulled
off with a pin or something -- it hooked on with a pin and once we go out it's to the back
and it pulls off the exhaust; is that right?
Niemeyer: That's what we are looking at. We are the only department in the valley,
outside of some of the small volunteer departments, that doesn't have that hose system.
Bird: And what kind of cost have we got for each one of those?
Niemeyer: That's about 25,000 dollars per station to retrofit. That's why we want to do
the testing, so we can come to you with data, if that's a request we need to make in the
future. It's a pretty significant investment, but certainly if it --
Bird: Well, you got -- you got to be safe.
Niemeyer: Right.
Bird: And that -- that exhaust stuff can build up in your system and --
Niemeyer: Yeah. There are some -- the other question we have -- and that's why we
are testing multiple apparatus. The newer apparatus that we have bought we have
been told that they fall under a new emission standard that was developed in the
Obama administration that, basically, filters out that particulate. That's called a region
process. The challenge -- and I don't necessarily agree with the change that was made
-- in order to do that you have to have that vehicle idling on the pad for 45 minutes
typically. So, run through that region in process. So, there is -- this idea that if you do
that it's going to filter some things out, but, yet, we are running it for 45 minutes just to
do it. So, that was one of the changes in the fire engine manufacturers. They all made
that change. We still don't know what's coming out of the tailpipe and so that's why we
are going to --
Bird: Follow up, Mayor? You're positive with just the two stations you're going to get
the answer for everything?
Niemeyer: We are. Station One will have --
Bird: The larger --
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December 5, 2017
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Niemeyer: -- one of our newer apparatus. It will have the truck. It will have some of our
older apparatus. So, we will test multiple apparatus there. Over at Station Two we
have Engine 33, which is -- Keith, stay with me here -- the oldest of the newest as far as
our fire engine replacement. We are also going to bring the water tender over and run it
through Station Three. So, we will get a good cross-reference of all --
Bird: So, you're doing one and three?
Niemeyer: Yeah. Yeah.
Bird: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, this kind of weird thing happens on occasion, but in the sales
pitch from Chief, the words emissions test, OSHA, and budget amendment were all
used and I'm still in favor of it. The reason being is we just don't know at this point --
the pipe system -- the hose system would be a nice to have, but we don't know that it's
a need to have. Doing this with the -- the scenario with the two stations and the multiple
trucks that the chief has outlined will give us the data to know that, okay, yeah, we have
to do something or if, hey, these funky fans they put it are actually sufficient. So, this is
kind of a last effort to know if -- if it is necessary and, then, we will build it back up,
raising for the future expense, and know that we need to put it in the next station.
De Weerd: Well -- and you will find out what the various apparatus -- those that are --
supposedly have the emissions friendly exhaust or whatever. It will -- will tell you if
maybe that passes and the old one doesn't, so I think you have given a good cross-
section of what -- what you're putting into those two stations to -- to get the maximum
data for our dollar.
Niemeyer: I agree.
De Weerd: Yeah. Any other comments? Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I move we approve the budget amendment for 4,000 dollars for the emissions
testing.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Mr. Clerk.
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Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 17-1732C: An Ordinance (Maverik – H-2016-
0027) of the City of Meridian granting annexation and zoning
for part of the Northeast Quarter of Section 7, Township 3
North, Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho as
described in the attached Exhibit “A”; Annexing Certain Lands
and Territory, Situated in Ada County, Idaho, and Adjacent and
Contiguous to the Corporate Limits of the City of Meridian as
requested by the City of Meridian; Establishing and
Determining the Land Use Zoning Classification of Said Lands
from C-2 to C-G (General Retail and Service Commercial
District) in the Meridian City Code; Providing that Copies of
this Ordinance Shall be Filed with the Ada County Assessor,
the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax
Commission, as Required by Law; and Providing for a
Summary of the Ordinance; and Providing for a Waiver of the
Reading Rules; and Providing for An Effective Date.
De Weerd: Item 11-A is Ordinance 17-1732-C. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this by
title.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 17-1732C: an
Ordinance, Maverik, file number H-2016-0027 of the City of Meridian granting
annexation and zoning for part of the Northeast Quarter of Section 7, Township 3 North,
Range 1 East, Boise Meridian, Ada County, Idaho, as described in the attached Exhibit
“A”; annexing certain lands and territory, situated in Ada County, Idaho, and adjacent
and contiguous to the corporate limits of the City of Meridian as requested by the City of
Meridian; establishing and determining the land use zoning classification of said lands
from C-2 to C-G (General Retail and Service Commercial District) in the Meridian City
Code; providing that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County
Assessor, the Ada County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as required
by law; and providing for a summary of the ordinance; and providing for a waiver of the
reading rules; and providing for an effective date.
De Weerd: Okay. You have heard this read by title. Is there anyone who would like to
hear it read in its entirety?
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December 5, 2017
Page 96 of 98
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you. Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve Ordinance No. 17-1732C with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 11-A. Mr. Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Ordinance No. 17-1755: An Ordinance (Aegean Subdivision –
H-2017-0114) of the City of Meridian granting annexation and
zoning for a portion of the NW ¼ of Section 33, Township 4
North, Range 1 West, as described in the attached Exhibit “A”;
Annexing Certain Lands and Territory, Situated in Ada County,
Idaho, and Adjacent and Contiguous to the Corporate Limits of
the City of Meridian as requested by the City of Meridian;
Establishing and Determining the Land Use Zoning
Classification of Said Lands of 65.29 acres of land from RUT to
R-4 (Medium Low Density Residential District)(25.79 acres) and
R-8 (Medium Density Residential District)(36.50 acres) in the
Meridian City Code; Providing that Copies of this Ordinance
Shall be Filed with the Ada County Assessor, the Ada County
Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as Required
by Law; and Providing for a Summary of the Ordinance; and
Providing for a Waiver of the Reading Rules; and Providing for
An Effective Date.
De Weerd: 11-B is Ordinance 17-1755. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 17-1755: an
Ordinance, Aegean Subdivision, file number H-2017-0114 of the City of Meridian
granting annexation and zoning for a portion of the NW ¼ of Section 33, Township 4
North, Range 1 West, as described in the attached Exhibit “A”; annexing certain lands
and territory, situated in Ada County, Idaho, and adjacent and contiguous to the
corporate limits of the City of Meridian as requested by the City of Meridian; establishing
and determining the Land Use Zoning Classification of said lands of 65.29 acres of land
from RUT to R-4 (Medium Low Density Residential District)(25.79 acres) and R-8
Meridian City Council
December 5, 2017
Page 97 of 98
(Medium Density Residential District)(36.50 acres) in the Meridian City Code; providing
that copies of this ordinance shall be filed with the Ada County Assessor, the Ada
County Recorder, and the Idaho State Tax Commission, as required by law; and
providing for a summary of the ordinance; and providing for a waiver of the reading
rules; and providing for an effective date.
De Weerd: I don't see anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety, so do I have
a motion from Council?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve Ordinance No. 17-1755 with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve this Ordinance. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Item 12. Any topics for future agendas? Just reminders. The Twilight
Christmas Market is Thursday from noon to 8:00 here at City Hall. The Winterland
Festival, Saturday, the 9th from 10:00 to 3:00 at the Boys and Girls Club. Remind you
to vote for the downtown Christmas -- business Christmas light --
Borton: Early and often.
De Weerd: Early and often says Councilman Borton. And Coffee with the Mayor next
Tuesday, December 12th, 8:00 to 9:30 at Republic Services.
Bird: We got that thing Monday, too. The MYAC deal. Remind them of that.
De Weerd: Yes. And just a reminder about MYAC and the Expo and go and check out
the -- the ideas.
Bird: Monday.
De Weerd: On Monday. 6:00 o'clock.
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December 5, 2017
Page 98 of 98
Item 13: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 74-206(1)(d): To consider
records that are exempt from disclosure as provided in Chapter 1,
Title 74, Idaho Code and 74- 206(1)(j): To consider labor contract
matters authorized under section 67-2345A [74-206A](1)(a) and (b),
Idaho Code.
De Weerd: So, with that we do not need the Executive Session, unless Council feels
the need to. If not, I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And feel free to overrule me, but I move we go into Executive Session per
Idaho State Code 74-206(1)(d)(j)(a) and (b).
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session. Mr.
Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (10:31 p.m. to 10:39 p.m.)
Borton: Entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Milam: So moved.
Little Roberts: Second.
Borton: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Entertain a motion to adjourn.
Milam: So moved.
Cavener: Second.
Borton: All in favor?
Meridian City Council
December 5, 2017
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MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:39 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR TAMMY DE WEERD
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