HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-11-28Meridian City Council November 28, 2017.
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:05 p.m., Tuesday,
November 28, 2017, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy De Weerd, Keith Bird, Joe Borton, Ty Palmer, Anne Little
Roberts and Luke Cavener.
Members Absent: Genesis Milam.
Others Present: Bill Nary, C.Jay Coles, Josh Beach, Kyle Radek, Shawn Harper, Charlie
Butterfield, Caleb Hood, Dale Bolthouse, Chris Pope and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X__ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Keith Bird
__X___Genesis Milam __X__ Lucas Cavener
__X_ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Thank you so much for joining us this evening and for your patience. I will go
ahead and start tonight's meeting. For the record it is Tuesday, November 28th. It is
6:05. We will start roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us
in the pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Justin Jordan with Real Life Ministries
De Weerd: Item 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Pastor Justin
Jordan with Real Life Ministries. If you will all join us in the community invocation or take
this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection. Thank you for joining us.
Jordan: Thanks for having me. Let's pray. Lord, as we start this meeting tonight I know
that this is a season where it's busy. I know for my life it's busy and the hustle and bustle
and the task list and the projects as we get ready for Christmas. I pray, God, that tonight
as the City Council starts this meeting and goes through this agenda and for all of our
lives that as we live, God, that we would not forget what we are supposed to display in
the midst of all the busyness, that tonight this meeting and all the things that need to be
accomplished and the topics addressed, God, that we would be a community that displays
peace, that displays hope, that displays joy and ultimately, most of all, it displays love and
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that you came and displayed those things for us. May we mirror those things to our
community and may it begin with our Mayor and our Council, our leaders and may we as
citizens reflect those same qualities. Thank you, Jesus, for coming. Thank you for this
time where we can remember what you did, what you represented, and may we represent
that to the world. We pray this all in your son's name, amen. Merry Christmas.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the Consent Agenda we need to add an Item J and that's the agreement
between City of Meridian and Discovery Benefits Incorporated DBI for flexible spending
account and COBRA administrative services and Item 9-C, the resolution number is 17-
2050 and Item 11-A the ordinance number is 17-1754 and with that I move we approve
the amended agenda.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye --
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I'm sorry?
Cavener: Before we vote, Madam Mayor, can we just get an explanation as to why this
item needed to be added to the Consent tonight, as opposed to our normal routine so that
it could be properly noticed?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a new vendor the city will be using
for flexible spending services come January. We have changed from the previous vendor
due to some service issues, so we have worked out over the last month a couple of issues
this vendor had, we have got them all -- all resolved and we need to get this under
contract, so we can get all the processing done before January 1 and so the Finance
Department was the one that requested that we move it up from a week from now, so that
we can get the vendor under contract and get all the process that needs to get done so
this can get implemented as of January 1st. And Christena is here from -- from HR if I
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either misrepresented that or underplayed that, but that was the reason we added it at
the last minute. They just sent it to us yesterday, so --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Nary, why don't we just pull it off the Consent and put it -- and, then, the
explanation and everything can be -- it can be discussed.
Nary: That would be certainly fine.
Bird: Okay.
Cavener: I'm fine with that.
De Weerd: You want to amend your motion?
Bird: Well, I have already amended. This is just for the -- I'm not to the Consent yet.
De Weerd: True.
Bird: I will when we do the Consent.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: This is just on the adoption of the agenda.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, the motion was to approve the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. Any opposed nay?
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes Maximum)
De Weerd: Okay. Item 5. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We had one individual sign up. Susan Karnes. The
description is Commission points of discussion.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Karnes: Good evening.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
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Karnes: I'm Susan Karnes. My address is 5556 South Graphite Way. And I want to
share with you this evening a concern of mine that's been growing for the past several
months and that is some of the discussion that takes place during Planning and Zoning
Commission meetings and, as an example, I will share from the 272 page transcript of an
October -- I think it was 19th P&Z meeting. Three different Commissioners on four
different occasions discussed the ability of the application to pencil and I find this to
probably be one of the root causes of resident complaints about developers and their
influence or advantages or whatever. It's not one of the items or factors listed in our
Comprehensive Plan as to whether some things should be approved or not and also of
concern was a question by a Commissioner to the applicant about whether or not he
shared this concept with members of City Council and this is a question about an active
application, which should not be in discussion with members of the Council, of course,
and the applicant's answer was, no, not officially. I just -- I find that concerning and
thought perhaps it might be appropriate for Council to consider refresher courses. You
know, having been a community commission volunteer, I really honor and respect their
role and I understand it's difficult, but perception is reality for residents sometimes and I
think that contributes to our concern. I just wanted to share that with Council this evening.
De Weerd: Thank you very much for bringing that up and I guess I will put that over to
Caleb to see if we can reach out to some extra training with our Planning and Zoning
Commission and see if we need to do something further in bringing a conversation
together with P&Z and City Council, which happens on occasion as well. I appreciate
your comments.
Coles: There were no other sign-ups, Madam Mayor.
Item 6: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of November 14, 2017 City Council Workshop
Meeting
B. 2nd Addendum to Development Agreement for TM Creek MDA
H-2017-0124 with SCS Brighton, LLC
C. Final Plat for Brickyard Subdivision No. 3 (H-2017-0144) by
John Carpenter located at 3611 N. Centrepoint Way
D. Final Plat for Brickyard Subdivision No. 4 (H-2017-0143) by
John Carpenter located at 3611 N. Centrepoint Way
E. Larkwood Subdivision Lot 2 Pedestrian Pathway Easement
F. Boroughs Subdivision Regional Pathway Easement
G. Approval of Award of Bid and Agreement to KNIFE RIVER for
the “BLACK CAT SEWER TRUNK PHASE 5 – MAINLINE
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CONSTRUCTION” project for a Not-To-Exceed amount of
$3,394,460.95.
H. First Addendum to Professional Services Agreement with
Treasure Valley Children's Theater Not-to-Exceed $5,000
I. AP Invoices for Payment - $199,586.82
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the Consent Agenda we are going to pull Item J to item 7-J. And with that I
move we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to sign and the
Clerk to attest.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as
changed. If there is no discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 7: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda
J. Moved from Consent Agenda: Agreement between City of
Meridian and Discovery Benefits, Inc. (DBI) for Flexible
Spending Account and COBRA Administrative Services
De Weerd: Item 6-J was moved under 7 and so I guess, Christena, I think we had some
questions about the agreement and the need to have it on this agenda versus next week.
Barney: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so as Bill had stated, we just received
the contract yesterday. They have requested funding by the 15th. In order for us to get
that funding to them by that time we have to have the agreement approved today, so that
I can put the PO in for tomorrow. That will ensure that our employees receive their
bennies cards by the 1st and that their accounts will be fully funded, so that they have
access to those funds.
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De Weerd: So, this is an access for our -- our employees to be able to utilize the -- the
flexible spending accounts when the new year arrives. What was the delay in -- in the
company getting the agreement back to us?
Barney: There was a little bit of back and forth between their legal team and our legal
team over the last two weeks. There was some clauses in there that our legal team
wanted removed. We had those removed and just received the final copy from the legal
team yesterday.
De Weerd: Okay. Any follow-up questions? Mr. Nary, anything you need to add?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, no. She is correct. There was -- probably
the biggest sticking clause is this is an out-of-state company, their standard agreement
requires any disputes be handled out of state. We generally prefer not to do that, prefer
to handle it in state. They agreed to that. But that was the last point that was kind of a
sticking point, because it's a national company and that's their standard form. So, we
were able to get that out and that got finalized yesterday.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. And I don't know who to pose this question to, Mr. Nary or
Christena. I recognize that it sounds like the request to get this on the agenda tonight
was to move the city process at the speed, so that we could get it -- the requirements
from this out-of-state vendor on time. I guess my question is what's stopping us from
keeping this on the agenda for one more week and moving forward with the PO process
next Wednesday? What -- I guess I just don't understand why our process is inhibiting
our ability to notice this item the correct way.
Barney: Purchasing will not allow us to process any funds -- payments to any vendor
without a legal agreement in place and it's not just, you know, a thousand dollars, it's
upwards of 18,000 that we are sending them.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess for that exact reason is why I'm -- I'm very hesitant about approving
something that we added to the agenda that's spending money tonight and if it's because
of our own processes, I just would say that we can change our own processes to expedite
this, as opposed to modifying an agenda that the public looks at to be able to expedite
our own process. That's just my opinion.
Barney: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, so this -- there is a lot of history to this.
About mid year our current vendor Prime Pay notified us that they are changing their
funding mechanism and so they were going to require us to set up an account that they,
essentially, could dip into at any time. We were not comfortable with that. So, it was past
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our -- the normal time that we would change vendors, so this whole process has been
somewhat expedited, other than there has been a thorough legal review done on it. So,
I feel comfortable in the contract, we followed the processes for that, but we have to have
it in place in order to send them money.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Bird: If not, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the agreement with City of Meridian and Discovery Benefits
Incorporated DBI.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 7-J. If there is no discussion
-- okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, sorry. I'm just trying to figure out dates here. So, if -- if we
approved it on the 5th, there is not time to fund within ten days after?
Barney: No. I was told by purchasing I had to have the agreement, the PO, and the
invoice down to them by tomorrow, so that it can go on next week's Council agenda and
that they can get payment to Discovery Benefits by the 15th.
Nary: Madam Mayor, there is --
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Pardon me. So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there is an additional
week, because if you notice your last item is always those invoices for payment, so -- so
without it, then, this wouldn't be on next week's agenda, it would be on the following week,
which would mean it would be one day before it was due. That was the problem.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it. Thank you.
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MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Republic Services and SWAC Report on Changing Market
Conditions for Recycling Mixed Plastics
De Weerd: Item 8-A is under Community Presentations. Steven. Steve Cory from our
Solid Waste Advisory Council is here to provide a report. Thank you for joining us.
Cory: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, thank you for this opportunity. Steve Cory.
As chairman of your Solid Waste Advisory Commission, bring their greetings and their --
and on their behalf I thank you for the support that you give us. As I mentioned at the
conclusion the last time I was before you, which we had -- we are seeing some major
changes in the market for recycled materials and as a way of background on this, what
we are talking about is a program China calls National Sword. It's an initiative that they
had put together and it affects the international market for recyclables. We believe that
this is something that China is doing in response to environmental pressures that they
are feeling. However, we understand that they have some conflicts internally on this,
because their manufacturing industries need these feedstocks to go ahead and operate.
Regardless, going back through the history of this, in 2013 they rolled out Green Fence,
which was their name for a process that tried to impede the import of useless materials
and try to get focused on the feedstocks that they wanted and in February of this year
they went ahead and implemented the next phase, which they call National Sword. In
July they went ahead and gave notice to the world trade organization that they would ban
the import of mixed plastic and mixed paper. Obviously in this discussion mixed plastic
would be a single stream that has the beverage bottles, the detergent bottles, the plastic
containers that may be you got cookies in or other pieces of plastic that may be thrown in
and, then, delivered in a single process. Then in August they went ahead and further
refined those streams -- individual streams and developed specifications, which came out
with -- well, resulted -- were given to us earlier this month as their purchase orders and
the specifications that they had put on those streams are something that we cannot meet
economically. Just so that you understand, some of the things that are occurring here in
the northwest, San Juan County has completely suspended its collection of recyclable
materials and is land filling them and many of the areas in Washington and Oregon have
stopped picking up the types of plastics, like I said, that you maybe get cookies in or that
are dividers in material, stuff like that, and this has -- this inability to move things out of
the ports on the west coast means that material is building up and going to our domestic
mills and so it's completely affecting our -- our current domestic recycling program. You
know, SWAC recognized all these economic factors and we understand the pressure that
we get from the public, that people want to recycle because it's the right thing to do, but
we now have recently the changes that have occurred as a result of Republic sending a
letter to the city of Boise and to the county -- Ada county requesting that they no longer
collect the other types of plastics, with the exception -- the only plastics that they would
pick up would be beverage bottles, milk jugs and detergent bottles and so that's under
consideration at this particular point and that's one of the reasons that I stand before you,
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is that I will go ahead and work with the Solid Waste Advisory Committee for the county
on this subject on December 12th at their next meeting and I want to make sure that I am
bringing forth Meridian's view on this change. The reason that the two letters have come
out so far is because those require ordinance changes for Boise and for the county. That's
not necessary for Meridian. So, if this were to occur we wouldn't have to be requesting
an ordinance change. However, Republic and Western would go into a pretty major public
relations campaign to explain to the Treasure Valley that there is a difference in what can
actually be put into the recycling bins. Another possibility is is that Boise doesn't want to
go down this path directly and they are looking at the viability of having available to some
of their citizens a -- a bag that you can put these other plastics in and, then, this yellow
bag goes into your cart and, then, when it gets to Western it's pulled out, but those other
plastics can go down to Salt Lake and be redissolved back into actually a petroleum
product, but it's very expensive. It would be possibly of the type of deal of producing
something that would be a hundred dollars a barrel for this type of petroleum, crude
petroleum product, versus the 50 dollar barrel -- per barrel that you would get for natural
petroleum. So, it's a highly subsidized process if something like that were to occur. I
want to mention that it's my understanding that Republic will be sending a letter to the
City of Meridian very soon and it will be informing of this change that they want to
implement and I guess with all of this I felt like it was necessary for me to stand before
the Council at this point to field your comments or questions or anything that you may
hear or think of in relation to this and I certainly stand for questions and Rachele Klein is
here with Republic and would be more than happy to answer your questions, too.
De Weerd: Thank you, Steve. So, with -- with Boise considering the yellow bag, are they
going to, then, add cost to their citizens in doing so?
Cory: At this particular point apparently they have a pretty substantial grant from Dupont
and they will be going with this grant with Dupont. They are changing the process, so
that it could be used valleywide, but people would have to pick up the bags themselves
from some locations, but as a result of that that grant would cover the cost initially. I don't
know whether that would be an ongoing process and whether there be a cost down the
road or not.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Steve?
Bird: I have none.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for either Steve or Rachele. I just want to make sure that I'm
understanding correctly. This letter that's going to arrive, is that letter going to be
advocating, then, for the city discontinuing the comingled recycling program as we know
it?
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Klein: Madam Mayor and Councilman Cavener, no. So, it is a substantial change to the
existing program and the existing plastics only at this point. So, we are able to accept
and there are markets for ones and twos, which are really the bottles that have threaded
necks. So, it's the milk jugs, the juice jugs, the detergent jugs, pop bottles, things like
that. So, the change would just be in plastics. W e suffer from a lot of film, like newspaper
sleeves, dry cleaning bags, grocery bags, things like that, we have got to get all of those
plastics out to keep the program viable and so by saving just the bottles with the threaded
necks that helps us keep some plastics in and so the rest of the program at this point in
time would remain unchanged, unless mixed paper becomes an issue as well and that's
something that's being discussed at the global level, too. So, this is something we don't
have any control over. We have been subsidizing it for a while, hoping that it was just a
reset in the Asian market and it's not, it's proving to be not just a reset, it's a long-term
change and part of that is in the past the cheaper three through seven plastics were used
as a fuel source for manufacturing and now China has really shifted to more natural gas
and they don't have a need for those plastics. So, there is really no market that's durable.
Some of them currently are going to Indonesia and Malaysia, but those are not durable
markets. So, it would really locally just affect us in the sense that we could only take the
bottles with threaded necks, really, for the most part.
De Weerd: I think because the criteria for recycling and the comingling has become a lot
more specific, we need to have an extensive public education campaign. I think I -- I have
heard from a couple of citizens that saw their recyclables being dumped in the regular
trash and didn't realize that -- I mean the pizza box in there or -- I don't know why people
think paper towels are recyclables, but that -- that contaminates that stream and so I think
just an education campaign, again, to -- to say what is a recyclable that should be put in
that bin is probably timely.
Klein: Yeah. I agree.
De Weerd: Especially with Christmas coming and wrapping paper and that sort of thing.
If -- if SWAC and Steve, if you can bring back to the county that this Council would love
to have an update on what the public relations plan is, what that's going to look like, how
it's going to be rolled out and that sort of thing, that would be very helpful. Any further
questions from Council?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Rachele, Steve, do you have a potential start date for this change?
Klein: Council Woman Little Roberts, it would be January 1st. So, it's really imminent.
De Weerd: Yeah. And so if the public relations campaign isn't out there like tomorrow,
will you not be accepting what is in the recycling bins?
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Klein: Madam Mayor, we will be -- continue to accept what's in the recycling carts at this
point in time. We have another meeting with Ada county SWAC, which is -- really, it's
representatives from all of the cities together and so Steve represents Meridian and he
also happens to be the chair of that committee. But we will be getting back together on
December 12th, which seems kind of late to really stack hands and say what is this
outreach campaign going to look like, because we want to make sure it's consistent
through every city. So, it's going to be consistent, actually, throughout Ada county and
we will be putting that -- our heads together on what that's going to look like on December
12th and, then, immediately after that we will start rolling out communication after that. Is
that your sense as well? And I'm sorry it's taking so long, but we have to have -- make
sure everybody is together with the -- what we are going to do and how we are going to
reach everybody.
De Weerd: So, it's in effect on January 1st, but you will be accepting --
Klein: Yes. Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Klein: We just have to subsidize -- as it's pulled out at Western Recycling we just have
to have -- like the last month our bill was over a quarter of a million dollars to Western
Recycling -- just under 300,000, and that's for pulling out all the contamination and
materials that are not accepted. So, the sooner the better for us, that we will absolutely
continue to accept it until we get everybody educated.
De Weerd: Right. Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. So, since we got about 50 percent of Meridian here tonight, you
said ones and twos are what you want?
Klein: Yeah. Yeah.
Palmer: Not three through seven?
Klein: So -- right. So, every plastic item has the chasing arrows inside. It's one through
seven and it's a little bit tricky, because if you can wiggle it, it can't go in. So, that's -- any
of those filmy plastics -- if you get a flat of waters and that plastic wrap, that can't go in.
Clear tall, you know, kitchen bags cannot go in. Anything that's wiggly cannot go in. It
has to be left loose in the cart and those low end plastics, the three through seven, are
really like your dairy tubs and things like that, clamshells from restaurants, those all -- the
easiest way to describe it is if you have like a milk jug or a pop -- two liter pop bottle or
detergent -- something that has a threaded neck and you can screw the lid on or off, those
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are all items we can still accept and there is still a market for those. So, that's probably
the easiest description. Which, really, plastic is only eight percent of what we collect for
recycling by weight and half of that is contamination. So, really, if we just target the things
that we are allowed to accept it shouldn't be that big of a change. It's just reaching
everybody to let them know I guess.
De Weerd: Are water bottles continue to be recycles or --
Klein: So, you know, that's really interesting that you would ask. That is a service sticking
point. So, the answer is, yes, those water bottles are -- water bottles are recyclable. The
thin ones, like you have there, technically are not, because they are so thin they get kicked
out and over to mixed paper. So, if they make it in with the plastics they are recyclable,
but if they get caught in with the mixed paper because they are so thin, then, they become
a contaminated and our thought is if we pull out all the other contamination like we are
talking about, Western said they can pick up 40 picks per minute I think is what -- they
have a line of people that pick out contaminates, but if we take out all of the rest of the
contaminants, then, those water bottles should be easy for them to grab and put in with
a -- with the truly recyclable ones and twos. That's what we are thinking. So, I would say
still leave those in at this point. Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Klein: I know. It's more than you want to know, but --
De Weerd: I think it's going to be important -- you know, those that -- that are recycling
to be environmentally a contributor, they are going to want to do it right and so --
Klein: Yes. We appreciate that.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? Thank you for the update and
maybe, Mr. Nary, you would participate -- oh, no. That's Andrea. If we could get an
update after the county meets to know how they are best moving forward on the 19th that
would be great.
Klein: Okay. Thank you.
B. Community Development Block Grant Program Consolidated
Annual Performance and Evaluation Report for Program Year
2016
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 8-B is under our CDBG and Chris.
Pope: Madam Mayor, Members of Council, good evening. So, I'm here today to present
to you another report plan that we do as part of this Community Development Block Grant
program. At the end of September this last year -- and we, obviously, had the fiscal year
end of our community -- of our city here, but at the same time we have the program year
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end for the Community Development Block Grant program and as is required, the US
Department of Housing and Urban Development requires that every city who receives
funds from HUD to go through a review and evaluation of the performance and the
utilization of funds during the last program year. So, in terms of moving forward for the
sake of ease of my communication, I'm going to refer to program year as PY, so when I
say PY-16, I mean program year 2016 and this report, which is called the Consolidated
Annual Performance and Evaluation Report as the CAPER, just for the sake of ease
there. So, first, what the CAPER is -- the PY-16 CAPER here is, essentially, just an
evaluation of the performance of the program in terms of how we define what the city
wanted to do in our last five year consolidated plan. This is the last year of that
consolidated plan, so this is kind of the culmination of did we even come close to doing
what we said we wanted to do. This report is designed to give us that information. In
addition, obviously, there is going to be an accounting for the use of the financial
resources that are -- that are part of this program. In addition, the report looks at the
procedures and processes of the program on how timely and effective the programs were
in delivering what they said they were going to deliver and using the funds. In addition,
looking at some of the decisions that were made, whether it's to fund certain projects or
to defund other projects, to justify those to the federal government and, then, also to
recognize any accomplishments or goals that were met or not met during this program
year. And, again, as I mentioned, this is the last year of our consolidated plan from 2012
to 2016. This is kind of the culmination that HUD wants to see what did you do and did
you do what you said you wanted and just a reminder that this program year started on
October 1st of 2016 and ran through the 30th of September of this year. So, I am federally
required to go through each project and tell you how much was spent. I know it's not the
sexiest or most exciting information you want to hear tonight, but in terms of program
administration for this last year, due to some issues in terms of the management of the
funds that -- and a backlog and different things that have gone on -- in prior program --
program years in terms of planning and, then, federal statutes and regulations that
prevent certain amounts that can be spent on program administration, we have a smaller
budget for salary and supplies this year. You can see the numbers there. As you all
know, we have worked regularly with the Food Bank to expend all of the funds that they
were allocated this last year. In addition, as you have heard from me many times this last
year, we completed the consolidated plan moving forward for the next five years, which I
guess I really should give you a grand thank you for actually approving that and helping
move forward with that. It was a pretty big process all the way around, especially working
with a consultant on it. It was chaotic at times, but we were glad we got that through. In
addition, the Mayor's office was able to complete the senior resource guide with the
utilization of the 5,000 dollars of the fund that, essentially, just kind of aggregated all the
information that seniors in the community might find helpful or useful, different resources
they might need access or information about and that was completed this year. The Ada
County Housing Authority utilized 65,000 dollars to provide home buyer assistance for
new home buyers wanting to move into Meridian. There -- the Storey Park restroom
accessibility upgrade, which was, essentially, to allow that public facility to become ADA
compliant, was completed this year as well. This last year is all the projects that we -- we
completely finished up this last year. The 2015 program year was a little bit chaotic.
There were some projects that were coming in, some that were going out, some we were
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excited about that dropped out, different things were going on. It was a little -- a little
messy. This year was kind of playing catch up and we feel really good in the department
about what we have been able to get done on this list here. In terms of what we still
currently have open right now, the first I want to note is the Boys and Girls Club
scholarship program. That's only open in terms of being a formality. All of the funds have
been allocated and, then, it's just waiting to get the check cut to send to the Boys and
Girls Club for their services. We are moving forward with the street light design and
construction project. We have two of them with an allocation of over 300,000 dollars at
this point to provide new -- the construction of new street lights in the community where
they are needed, particularly in low to moderate income areas. We have one of those
projects under contract with -- the construction start date is supposed to be tomorrow and
the other one we are going to the bid process with right now. Jesse Tree homelessness
prevention program utilized about half of their allocation. They are on track -- they are on
track to get the rest of their allocation utilized in helping people avoid homelessness in
our community. In addition to Neighbor Works also providing a Boise home buyer --
Neighbor Works Boise providing home buyer assistance. There were some delays there
in terms of their utilization of funds, but that's transforming and moving forward and they
are hoping to help a good number of individuals here in the next couple of months. In
addition, we completed the slum and blight plan. This is one we haven't talked about a
lot. You're going to hear from me again in two weeks about it. We completed the work
on it. We did an assessment of the downtown core, some of the area, and trying to find
some more information about what opportunities we might have to have more leniency or
flexibility with funding development and infrastructure and projects in the downtown area
based on a slum and blight designation and, again, I will come to you guys in a couple of
weeks with more information asking for an approval of that plan. But just know that that
one has been totally spent down, it's completed, and we got some formal processes to
get through on that one. And, then, the Meridian Elementary picnic -- the picnic shelter
project and the field reseed, we have run into a lot of delays with that one -- without getting
too much in the weeds, we are moving forward. We finally got some of the shipping and
equipment problems out of the way, but that one is moving forward as well. So, just to
give you an idea of the money that we still have outstanding here -- again, I have got to
make sure you guys are -- I am federally required to talk about all of the -- the dollar signs
here. With the street light projects we have sitting about a little less than 300,000 dollars
left. That, again, is on schedule moving forward pretty well. Another 66,000 with the
Meridian picnic shelter. Slum and blight plan has nothing left. But, again, it is still open.
Another 30,000 dollars with the home buyer assistance sitting in the bank and the MDC
sidewalk design is moving forward as well. And, then, again, about half of the allocation
for Jesse Tree rental assistance program is going on there. If you have any questions
about any of this let me know. Again, this is kind of the -- the deep weeds here, but if you
are interested in knowing why -- why isn't this program -- or project moving forward, why
is there this much, why is there this little, feel free to contact me or talk to me, ask me any
questions at the end of this presentation as well. And so the part that I am really excited
about is the accomplishments. What we have been able to do here and I know there has
been a lot of skepticism in the community, sometimes questions from Council about the
value or validity of this program, what is it really doing to change our community to help
it. Is this philosophically something we want to be involved in. So, in terms of what we
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have been able to do this year with these funds, we have spent about 81 percent of those
funds on low to moderate income residents of our community. The other nineteen percent
is spent on administration and planning. It's generally common practice for that to be the
case. There have been over 85,000 residents who have received some kind of public
service through this program over the last year. Now, that seems like a big lofty number,
so in terms of what is reported to us and how it is tracked, somebody who receives
services every month is counted each month. So, there is some -- some duplication in
terms of that number. We don't see 93 percent of our community needing public services
through this program, but in terms of the sheer number of people who come and ask for
assistance, who are in need of assistance, based on what we can provide right now, that's
the number that -- of people that we are working with. There have been five families, all
of which have a number of kids, have received help in terms of receiving assistance for
buying a home in the community. Another 22 families, particularly the children, are given
access to the Boys and Girls Club's after school and summer programs. Now, this is one
that is pretty crucial to these families. A lot of -- a lot of these individuals come from single
parent households, who work two jobs and really struggle to provide for their family and
this scholarship essentially provides child care, education, food for these individuals and
these kids. They -- they consistently praise our -- our willingness to support them on this.
Another five families were -- were completely able to avoid homelessness due to Jesse
Tree's emergency rental assistance program. So, that's five families that didn't get put
out on the street because they were able to just get a one-time quick pick up from Jesse
Tree. In reference to the senior resource guide, over 900 seniors now have access to
this information and that information is readily available throughout the community.
Another -- more than 7,000 individuals have been able to access food through the Food
Bank. This number doesn't really do justice to the work that Dan and the Meridian Food
Bank do in our community. They regularly serve over 50,000 individuals a year, but they
only submitted draws and reports to us for three months this year before they ran out of
money to ask for. So, this is just a representative from May to August or the time that
they were really utilizing their allocation. We expect another 50 to 60 thousand people to
be helped through their services outside of what we fund through this program. Another
three new plans that were direct future work were created this year in terms of the action
plan, the consolidated plan, and our slum and blight plan. It's something I wanted to note
here, because those plans really will help dictate a lot of how we can maneuver through
the future and what goals we have. Each of those plans required some kind of public
process and serving in order to get information about what the community is in need of at
this point. Utilizing that information, along with the -- the community survey that was done
earlier this year, gives us a really good idea of how the city is moving forward, what their
needs are and what we could possibly do and what you can do as legislators to make a
change and we have had that one new public facility in terms of that -- that restroom
upgrade that was completed, but there are more coming with the street lights, the MDC
sidewalk project, and a number of other things that are kind of in the hopper right now.
So, the big thing that HUD wants to know is did you do what your comp plan said you
would do and the short answer is absolutely. We blew him away. So, in 2012 we set
goals to help seven -- seven families address the need for affordable housing or find
affordable housing. We have helped 16 over the last five years. On public services we
were hoping to help about 10,000 individuals. We have helped over 238,000 people.
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Again, a big pat on the back there to the Meridian Food Bank for -- for bearing a lot of that
load, but they really do a lot of fantastic work through this program and though other
funding sources in our community. I don't think that -- that point can be belabored enough.
In addition to that, in terms of public facility improvements, we were looking at hoping to
do three improvements to public facilities and infrastructure here in the community over
the last five years and we completed five. So, in terms of the goals that you approved
that you reviewed, that the federal government is holding us all accountable for, for the
utilization these funds, we did great. We did what we said we were going to do. So, that
public accountability portion of it is -- we are on the right page there. So, I also wanted to
review some of the other activities that the program is involved in. So, there is Ada County
Continuous Care, which is a regional homelessness coalition that tries to find ways to
prevent and eradicate homelessness in the community. We have a -- due to some federal
requirements and also just due to -- through coordination with other communities, we
have kind of expanded our support of that -- of that program in a way where we have
representatives now on the fair housing working group, on the performance measurement
working group, on the housing and affordable housing committees and also on the
executive committee. Now, this is -- this is a fantastic way to kind of coordinate all of the
human services, support services, organizations, whether they are nonprofit, public-
private, all the funders into kind of striving to address some of the housing issues that we
are facing all across the Treasure Valley. In addition to that, working with the housing
and homelessness roundtable in Boise is something that we have had our foot in for a
while, as is the statewide Idaho Fair Housing Forum, as is part of this program and this is
mandated by HUD. The community here is required to be part of fair housing discussions,
as well as affordable housing discussions in finding ways to remove impediments to both
of those being implemented in our community. So, that's kind of a quick list of the main
ones going on, but there are other local, regional, and state groups and organizations that
we are a part of in terms of conversation participation, in order to -- to help understand
what the issues that we are facing are and how we can overcome them as a -- as a broad
coalition of people who care I guess. So, also moving forward -- I guess before I get into
talking about what -- what we have to report in terms of what we are shooting for for this
next year in terms of program management, this -- this 2016 CAPER is not offering any
ideas, it's not asking for approval of any use of funds, it's simply just a review. It's for you
to see this is what we did in this last year. We like it. We don't like it. Either way. It's --
it's just supposed to be a general transparent accounting of what happened. But we do
have to self- evaluate in terms of a program and kind of determine how we want to move
forward to increase efficiency, timeliness and other things of this sort. So, some of the
things that are kind of on our table right now from the internal program management point
of view is maintaining a timely distribution of funds, meeting deadlines, revamping how
we monitor projects to make sure that we don't run into things like we did in program 2015
where we all of a sudden lose the ability to fund a certain program or we fund them and
it doesn't work out in the right way, being able to monitor and understand -- making sure
compliance factors are -- are in the right place, so we can move forward a lot quicker and
more efficiently. We are also hoping to improve procedures to analyze risk, labor, and
cost of some of the projects, so that we don't get ourselves involved in something that we
should have known about before and that's generally not something we have come up
against, but having a procedure in place to easily manage some of these things is
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something that we are looking at, as well as enhancing the organization of the
administrative side of this position and program, so that we can be more compliant, we
can be more efficient and we can remove some of the time and resource burden that is
often kind of confused with -- with some of these programs. In addition we are going to
work, obviously, to complete the next set of five year goals and, then, further expand our
participation and partnership in the regional efforts, particularly this -- this last
consolidated plan brought up the ideas of domestic violence, of transportation, and
affordable housing. Those are going to be new things that we are kind looking at as a
program to start a conversation about regionally to see what we can do to rally the troops
to start meeting some of the needs our community members have in those areas. So,
I'm giving you this information now, so I don't have to repeat it to you later. Also just to
note -- as you -- as you understand when it comes to these kind of presentations there is
a public comment period and a public process for all of these reports. This report does
have to be submitted to HUD. It does need to be adopted by resolution by Council. It
does have to go -- undergo a public comment period and a public hearing. So, today is
the first day that we are taking oral and written public comments from the community.
This report is available for review both online on the website, the CDBG -- Meridian CDBG
and in person here at City Hall and, then, on the 19th that public comment period will
close. We will have a public hearing for any comments. Again, this isn't necessarily --
while this isn't inherently a report that is offering new ideas, this isn't a report that's looking
at the value or validity of the program, it's just simply to review this is what we have been
doing. So, I'm more than happy to take any questions now or on the 19th when we go
through this little -- this public hearing again. But that's what we have been doing. The
last 12 months this is how we have been playing the game and we are moving forward
trying to increase the efficiency and the timeliness of this program, reducing some of the
administrative burden, the cost burden on the city and moving it towards the community
members as it's designed to be. I will gladly stand for questions at this point.
De Weerd: Thank you, Chris. I think this is the most comprehensive update that we have
seen. So, thank you for that. Appreciate all the detail and -- and how the reach of these
dollars are impacting our community and certainly those that are in the LMI categories.
So, thank you for that. Council, any --
Pope: Madam Mayor, sorry, if I could -- just quickly. If anybody has any questions on the
demographics in terms of race, ethnicity, gender, income level for any of the -- anything
to do with this program, we are required and due track that information, so I didn't include
it here for the sake of not getting too far in the weeds, but if you are interested in knowing
any that information, please, let me know and I can provide that to you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: Chris, I think we had one recipient from the Northwest Home Buyers program.
It didn't look like they have spent any other money that they have been allocated. Did I
see that wrong or is that accurate and if that is accurate what happens moving forward
with them?
Pope: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, so it was really interesting -- really weird
scenario. So, Neighbor Works Boise earlier this year received a large -- couple million
dollar grant from Wells Fargo. The Wells Fargo Bank. And they were told that that money
was to be utilized and leveraged with other funds in order to provide down payment
assistance for people who want to buy a home in -- in the county. Or I guess it was state
funds, so in the state. The -- the idea was that after any client who was interested in that
program would apply for the Wells Fargo grant and, then, they would apply for the
Meridian grant, the Boise grant, whatever grant else is out there to leverage those funds
with and so in early summer they stocked up a list of like 20 to 50 people. I don't
remember the last count. People who were like, yeah, we want a home, this is really
going to help us on their private funds. This is really appealing to a lot of people and --
but they had found a cut -- an adequate number of Meridian -- of individuals wanting to
move to Meridian who could leverage CDBG funds with those private funds in order to
help them out. Well, come -- as the process went on the realization was that, no, CDBG
was one of the programs that was exempt from allowing leveraging of funds with this
private grant -- that private grant, so the difficulty it came down to was that the moment
that that private grant was, then, awarded or approved for any -- anybody wanting to move
to Meridian, which was everybody, because they have got a pool of millions of dollars to
use, anybody who, then, wanted to apply for the CDBG funds couldn't do so, so the
conversation was had in the end of summer about what's going on in conversations with
Bud and Patrick, who both kind of run the program there. We came to an agreement that,
hey, we will give you until the end of March to do this, but we want you to start -- we want
you to commit to start utilizing these funds by the end of December, start using those,
helping individuals, and we committed them to a certain -- a certain grant schedule I guess
you could say, so an unfortunate opportunity come and just fell through the wayside for
that situation. They have been regularly one of our greatest and easiest partners and it
has been unfortunate to see all of their funds kind of just completely sitting around doing
nothing for now.
Cavener: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Thank you, Chris.
Pope: Thank you.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for East Ridge Estates Subdivision (H-2017-
0129) by DevCo, LLC located north of E. Lake Hazel Road,
west of S. Eagle Road
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1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 40.99 acres of land with
R-4 and R-15 zoning districts
2. Request: Preliminary Plat approval consisting of 139 building
lots and 7 common lots on 40.99 acres of land in a proposed
R-8 zoning district
De Weerd: Okay. We will move into Item 9 under Action Items. 9-A is a public hearing
for H-2017-0129. I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Beach: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of Council. So, this first project here this
evening is East Ridge Estates. It is both an annexation -- an application for annexation
and zoning and for a preliminary plat. The site consists of approximately 40.99 acres of
land. It is currently zoned RUT within Ada county. It's located north of East Lake Hazel
Road and west of South Eagle Road. Adjacent land use. To the north is single family
residential property in the Blackrock Subdivision, which is zoned R-4, and undeveloped
residential properties, zoned RUT, which has recently come forward with the Sky Mesa
project. To the east is one single family residential property -- residential home and also
undeveloped property, which are both zoned RUT in Ada county. To the south is East
Lake Hazel Road and properties zoned RUT in Ada county. And to the west is a single
family residence, zoned RUT. A little history on this project that probably most of you
remember. In March of this year this application was remanded back to the Planning and
Zoning Commission in order for the applicant to work with the surrounding property
owners. The previous proposal included 117 single family lots and, then, a proposed R-
8 zoning district, with a gross density of 2.85 dwelling units per acre. The Comprehensive
Plan future land use map for this property is both low density residential and medium
density residential. So, the applicant has applied for annexation and zoning, as I said, of
40.99 acres of land with R-4 and R-5 zoning districts. Staff believes the proposed zoning
designations are consistent with the policies in the Comprehensive Plan. The applicant
proposes in this case -- the current proposal is for 139 single family residential detached
homes shown here on the preliminary plat. So, as I said, in comparing the two -- back in
March was 117 building lots, 14 common lots, on 40.99 acres in a proposed R-8 zoning
district. That was for five phases. As I said, the density was 2.85 dwelling units per acre.
That's the gross density. Lots ranged in size from 6,600 to 12,500 square feet, with an
average of 9,400 and that was for the previous plat. This current plat is for 139 building
lots, seven common lots, on the same acreage, with proposed R-4 and R-15. As you can
see here on the plat itself, the portion that is proposed to be R-15 is this area within the
dashed line is what they are -- the applicant is calling The Village products. There are
age restricted 55 and older portion. And the portion surrounding that would be the -- R-
4 zoning. Getting back to the differences. This would be in three phases. The gross
density of 3.39 versus the previous 2.85 and lots ranging in size from 5,300 square feet
to over 12,500, with an average 36,720 square feet. So, there is -- there is some larger
lots surrounding the 55 than there were with the previous plat. So, just -- just comparing
the two. The applicant is proposing to develop the East Ridge Estates Subdivision, as I
said, in three phases. Phase one is to commence off the stub street from Cyanite and
generally continue from the north to the south. In general staff is supportive of the
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November 28, 2017
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proposed phasing plan. Madam Mayor, Members of Council, also we received a letter
from the applicant that I have given to each of you with a number of things that the
applicant has agreed to do. As part of that they are agreeing to -- I believe to construct a
construction access to Lake Hazel to limit the construction -- large construction vehicles
coming through the Blackrock Subdivision. So, that's a concession that was offered up
to the neighbors. So, access, as I said, is proposed for this site via one access from East
Lake Hazel and be an extension of the existing stub street from Blackrock Subdivision,
which is East Cyanite Drive. The majority of the proposed streets depicted on the plat
are public, with the exception of the streets through the -- what the applicant is calling The
Village or their age restricted community. These cottages will feature private streets with
multiple common driveways. It contains 98 residential home lots and the applicant has
provided two gated entries for the residence. The main entrance off of the primary
subdivision road, which is closer to Lake Hazel, and the secondary would be off here that
would connect with the public road system in this location. The Village homeowners
association -- excuse me. The private streets will be owned and operated by The Village
homeowners association, with repairs and maintenance paid for by that -- that HOA. So,
as I said, the applicant is proposing to install two gates to restrict vehicular access to the
private streets to those who live in that area. The applicant did receive alternative
compliance to allow for the common driveways off of a private street and also to remove
the requirement that two additional pedestrian slash bicycle access points be included on
the private street. A total of 4.32 acres or 10.54 percent qualified open space is proposed,
consisting of half a street buffer on East Lake Hazel Road. Open space that exceeds 50
by 100 feet. Fifty feet by one hundred feet. Excuse me. And eight foot wide parkways
along local streets and internal common open space areas, which appear to comply with
that requirement. The applicant intends to have -- intends to have separate amenities for
the age restricted portion of the project, based on the area of the preliminary plat or, as I
said, 40.99 acres. Staff requires a minimum of two qualified site amenities to be provided.
The applicant proposes to provide amenities specific to The Village concept and other
amenities that would be for the use of the estate lots. The amenities that would be shared
by both the estate lots and The Village concept include a neighborhood park that includes
a large grassy area, a shade structure, and sitting areas. The applicant has submitted
some conceptual elevations. As I said, this is the proposed plat. This is the proposed
landscape plan with the larger open space area here that would be shared. A common
area in this location where my mouse is that will be for The Village concept. The way the
applicant has couched this -- and they can explain this a little bit further -- similar to what
was approved with the -- with the Movado Subdivision. Amenities that would be
specifically allowed for residents of the age restricted would be located within that
community. Those residents would also be able to use the amenities in the larger
subdivision, but not the other way around. The residents on the estate lots would not
necessarily be allowed to use the amenities within The Village concept. So, getting back
to the conceptual elevations. As I said, these are similar to what has been seen previously
by the applicant. Larger estate homes. And this is the development agreement for this.
Getting back to that -- so, the applicant for any attached product would be required to go
through design review. The Commission did recommend approval of this. Summary of
the Commission public hearing. Mr. Conger, the applicant, is in favor. Kathy
Baumgartner, the neighbor to -- immediately to the east -- or, excuse me, to the west was
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November 28, 2017
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also in favor. In opposition were Susan Karnes, Jim Stroo, Christine Herwy, Annette
Alonzo. Commenting were Susan Karnes, Jim Stroo, Christine Herwy, Annette Alonzo,
and Kathy Baumgartner. We have received written testimony from Susan Karnes, Susan
and Ted Bowman, Melody Wheeler, the Meridian South Rim Coalition, Jim Stroo, and
Kathy Baumgartner. I was the staff presenting the application. Key issues of public
testimony were the additional traffic through the existing Blackrock Subdivision and out
to Eagle on Taconic. Density of the overall development was a concern. The feasibility
of having age restricted housing in this location was a concern. Proposal to use city water
for irrigation purposes due to the lack of water rights for the proposed property. The
Council in a previous hearing asked the applicant to come back with an R-4 project was
a concern. And concern that this was not all an R-4. Concern was the size of the proposal
lots up against the Blackrock -- the large Blackrock lots. The appropriateness of placing
the slope in an easement, rather than in a common lot and what the, quote, natural
vegetation was. The issues of discussion by the Commission were the average size of
the lots that would be adjacent to the Blackrock lots. Open space and proximity to the
proposed city park. The transition from the surrounding neighborhoods and the transition
from the proposed age restricted lots. The Commission did not make any recommended
changes. Outstanding issues for City Council were they removed Condition 1.1.1E and
1.1.2K. I will also say that the applicant in your letter has indicated that they would like to
make some -- some changes or some things added to their development agreement. As
I said, the Commission did recommend approval. Did receive a large number -- without
going through the large list here of the applicants -- or, excuse me, of the comments
received listing issues of concern or the density of the 55 and older portion of the property.
Concerns of traffic. Lack of water rights to the property. And a request to use city treated
water for irrigation purposes. Lack of transition from the estate lots to the north. An
increase in the number of buildable lots, among others. With that I will stand for any
questions you have.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I think there is still staff comment.
Beach: There is. Kyle would also like to include some comments on water.
Radek: Thanks, Josh. Madam Mayor, Council Members, I just wanted to make some
brief comments about the concerns raised regarding the potential use of city water for
irrigation in this development. First of all, we would just like to note that city code does
allow a waiver to the requirement to provide a pressurized irrigation system from surface
water. It has been applied for before and some developments do use city water for
irrigation. Second, if it is determined that city water will be used to supply irrigation, as
well as in-home use for this development, the water plan distribution system in this area
is robust and has ample capacity to provide such service. As an example, our current
peak demand for this entire pressure zone is about 50 gallons per minute. Our pumping
capacity in this pressure zone is over 5,000 gallons per minute from different locations
and we can provide fire flows over 2,000 gallons a minute at almost any place in pressure
zone five. We -- we do note that this general area has some water quality issues, like
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November 28, 2017
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brown water or red staining of fixtures. These aesthetic water quality issues are a
challenge in various areas throughout the city. In this area water quality problems are
made worse by the fact that there is so much water main and so few customers. So, you
have a lot of resident time for the water to settle out materials like manganese and iron in
it. So, the addition of more customers will actually help to reduce the age of water in the
system, which will improve the water quality and those are just the brief comments I
wanted to make and I'm available for any questions you might have now or during the
hearing. Dennis Teller, our water superintendent, is also available to answer any
questions you might come up with.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kyle. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor. Josh, we got some funny math here. The lots range from 5,313 to
12,500 and the average is 36,728?
Beach: I may have a -- I may have a comma in the wrong place.
Bird: And we turned down a 2.85 dwelling units per acre, asked them to remand it and
now we are coming back with a 3.39 dwelling units per acre. Is that right?
Beach: Correct.
Bird: Okay. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Kyle, in the areas of the city where -- where city water is used
for irrigation -- I know it's probably an unimaginable way to ask this, but how much does
the irrigation affect the -- I guess is there a large effect on -- on the water -- pressure of
the water usage from irrigation, as opposed to just normal usage of the water? Does it
make a huge difference or would it just help facilitate the -- the problem that we have got
with the brown water?
Radek: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I think I understand your question. We have
between 15 and 18 percent of our customers right now have city water for irrigation and
mostly in the older parts of town and we don't see any pressure fluctuations due to the
use of irrigation. It's such a -- it's such a small percentage of what we design for, since
we design for fire flows. We have eight inch mains that will carry 2,000 gallons a minute
to a hydrant. So, if a bunch of sprinkler systems are using five gallons a minute for a
station, it -- it doesn't have much in an effect.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
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November 28, 2017
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Palmer: So, then, there is -- there is no problem for us being able to deliver it, just the
only downside would be the customers that are, then, having to pay the additional --
Radek: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I -- I think that's -- that's the big -- that will
be the big issue is -- is once they get their first bill for using city water in July, they will be
the most conservation minded waterers we have in the city and so they will probably use
even less.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Kyle, you talked about that the applicant is able to use city water via a waiver.
Can you provide us some explanation as to why you require a waiver and why this isn't
just general business practices to allow, you know, a development to connect to city water
for irrigation purposes?
Radek: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, this is a little bit out of my element. In 1999
the state passed a law that said -- it encouraged the use of surface water as the first
source for -- for irrigation throughout the state and I believe that shortly after that Meridian
passed their code to support that and say where there is -- where there is a source of
surface water you're going to use that for irrigation first and -- and that's why we have
that, because we have all these farmlands that have surface water and if we are not using
that surface water it's just surface water that's going -- going to Oregon and is going to
get wasted.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: An additional question. Kyle, if an applicant, then, receives a waiver and uses
city water for their irrigation purposes, is each home or each user, then, also required to
have the back flow device that we have to test on a regular basis?
Radek: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I believe the -- the intent in this would be
to have -- especially since the applicant has applied for water rights, there would be a
separate system and Mr. Conger can answer that and correct me if I'm wrong, but I
believe the intent is to have a separate system, just like you have a PI system, except it
would be you would have a single point connection for the city water, rather than like in
the old parts of town where everybody just runs their water system through their normal
meter.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions at this point from Council? Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor. Would it, then, cause an issue with the -- the billing of it if -- if
they were running off of a mutual sprinkler system?
Radek: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, I thought the same thing as soon as I said
that. So, I guess I'd like to hear from Mr. Conger what he's proposing, but there is -- there
is options. They could submeter -- you know, even if they have a separate system they
could -- they could do their own meters back behind -- or they could have some other kind
of arrangement for paying. But I don't know exactly what they plan to do.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for staff at this time? Okay. Would the applicant
like to make comment? Good evening. If will you, please, state your name and address
for the record.
Conger: You bet. Thank you. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Jim Conger, 4824
West Fairview Avenue. Josh is going to put -- put my presentation up on the screen for
us. Certainly a good evening and we are excited to be in front of you tonight to present
the East Ridge Estates. We would like, first, to take a moment back and just a quick step
to walk through the city's Comprehensive Plan and the zoning code as a -- as a refresher.
The Comprehensive Plan, as you know, but I will explain why at the end, we will go
through this and this will be quick. The Comprehensive Plan identifies the land uses and
actually regulates the range of densities that are allowed by the city in the city -- city's
codes. The Comprehensive Plan is also used by your Public Works Department for
engineering and planning purposes of sewer and water lines, sizing and locating water
reservoirs, as well as sizing and operating your sewer treatment facility. I believe this
was discussed actually several weeks ago at one of your last Council hearings as you
heard from your Public Works engineering manager on how reduction of planned users
actually impacts -- impacts the operations budget and taxpayer dollars. Moving away
from the comp plan and quickly to the zoning code, what I have put in front of you is -- is
one of your typical zoning designations. As you can see, it only regulates the dimensional
standards of the potential lots as frontage lot size, as well as setbacks. All of this, of
course, determines the type of housing that can be built, but nowhere on your zoning
charts or in your zoning cord -- zoning code does it regulate density of any sort. That is
the Comprehensive Plan's function. My final point, you know, R-4, R-15, any of those
names have nothing to do, again, with allowable density. That's the Comprehensive Plan.
They are simply a zone that dictates the dimensional standards. They could be called
Zone A or Zone B for that matter. I think R-4, R-8, R-15, is all carryovers from the old
zoning codes that everybody continues to be confused with in a lot of our meetings. There
has been -- as I alluded to, there has been enough confusion in our neighborhood
meetings and previous hearings that I wanted to take a moment just to clarify the
responsible functions of the Comprehensive Plan and -- versus the zoning code and
hopefully that will make sense. From a comprehensive planning standpoint specific to
our property, this property starts the transition towards the medium high density
residential to the west and the higher intense neighborhood commercial to the west and,
of course, is kitty corner or immediately adjacent to your regional 80 acre regional park
that will start construction next year. As you can see by this exhibit, you know, typical
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comp plan, going through a density calculation where we always start, you could get up
to approximately 213 lots. Our preliminary plat has 137 lots requested. So, our requested
density is 35 percent less than what the city comp plan could -- could ultimately support.
The zones we are requesting are strictly for the purpose of dimensional standards and
not for density or the lots per acre. We have held numerous, numerous meetings over
the last five months since we departed from -- from this project and your Council here in
March. When we arrived at a general consensus that a typical R-4 product wasn't the
best subdivision or the best lot product that could be for all interested parties on all sides,
we worked diligently again with the neighbors. We appreciate all the input from the
Blackrock neighbors. We worked in several meetings with them as it relates to the
transition of our estate lots and you can see the transition to -- in the upper left corner to
three of the existing homes in Blackrock neighborhood. That is our impact to them. That
is why we focused hard on the estate lots of the R-4 and we will talk about lot sizes and
everything in a minute. But, again, worked very diligently with them to make a nice
transition to the three -- three houses that we are adjacent to on the entire perimeter
boundary. However, we have also worked equally as hard with our west neighbor, which
is the Baumgartner family, who is directly affected on the entire west boundary and you
will hear from Kathy Baumgartner tonight in support of this project. We have worked five
hard long months with her to get this Village product that we are going to talk about in its
single level statue -- you know, status and -- and get it to a point that that neighbor could
actually embrace and enjoy and live next to the project that we are going to bring her.
That is a big deal to us and should be a big deal to a lot of people, as she is the immediate
neighbor next to us. The outcome of our planning meetings with the neighbors, with the
Meridian South Rim Coalition, is the plan that you have in front of you tonight. No, it's not
an R-4 typical plan, we understand that, and we might even apologize for that, but as we
kept going through meeting after meeting after meeting, the R-4 plan wasn't the best for
our western neighbor, ultimately isn't the best as we walk through the traffic impacts.
What we are bringing is significantly less. We worked a good compromise with our mix
of custom estate lots adjacent to Blackrock. As we noted, those three and to the east
boundary Boise Hunter homes was in -- in front of you before. We kept the largest estate
lots all against our north boundary and the entire east boundary all the way to Lake Hazel
got the benefit of the estate lots. And these are not, you know, a maximum of 12,000
square feet, these are 37,000 square feet. They all average at just under a half acre if
you take all our R-4 lots of the -- of the rim. It's a direct result of all parties finding middle
ground. Every party gave a concession in this five months, starting with us, starting with
neighbors, starting with Kathy Baumgartner on the west boundary and all parties. This is
rare. Again, I'm beating the drum. This is rare. We are in front of you tonight with R-15,
but, again, all the restrictions that we will come across here shortly is why that neighbor
on the west boundary is here in support of the R-15, because she doesn't want a typical
R-4 next to her with two story commodity type homes. These single levels fit what they
would rather live next to. Now, the fun part of the presentation. I will quickly run through
kind of the important parts. I won't do it too quickly, but I'm excited to explain the project
details and the concessions that we have made with the neighbors. As noted with East
Ridge, we have provided a variety of housing types, which I think is important for the city
as well, not just one product. The estate home sites in the gold and The Village
neighborhood. As I said, the estate lots in the gold will consist of 41 custom estate home
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sites, taking advantage of the rim and everything that we had heard and talked about in
the previous hearing. We have an average lot size of just under a half acre. Again, a
couple of larger ones are just barely under one acre. Of course, they are corner lots, but
every corner lot is a little bit bigger by nature of cutting the pie. Here are a couple
compromises that we made with neighbors. You will see a sheet of them when -- when
you get to the Exhibit A that I would like to insert into the development agreement later in
my presentation, but we restricted the large rim lots to have 45 foot rear yard setbacks.
We are at seven and a half foot side yard setbacks as requested by the neighbors. We
also committed to a five foot open vision wrought iron on every boundary that we have,
except, of course, Lake Hazel will be a solid. But all the neighbors get -- get the fence
put up, five foot open vision wrought iron. We have even moved the park from the location
we wanted it to the location that the neighbors want it. Our western neighbor and several
of our entry neighbors talked about having that green space instead of homes closer to
their entry and you actually saw a condition of approval from staff to move it back to the
corner. We literally begged the Planning and Zoning Commission to leave the park where
it is. We would rather have it on the corner. But I gave my commitment during all our
meetings of all the concessions, the give and takes, I had to move the park to where you
see it today. So, Planning and Zoning Commission in their recommendations left it where
it's located and we would appreciate that -- that today for sure. Running into our Village
neighborhood in the green area with the brown, 96 single level, age-restricted homes.
This neighborhood is just like our Movado community that we were in front of you a year
ago that is underway in Meridian near Overland. This is an age-restricted neighborhood
that is gated for security purposes, as we indicated before. You can see the beautiful
entry with landscape and stone columns. Our home buyers demand a simple and secure
lifestyle, all exclusive maintenance program, which includes full lawn care, snow removal
and all exterior maintenance. Our homeowners do not have to take care of anything. We
also have a first class community clubhouse. This is a 3,000 square foot, fully equipped
kitchen, well-appointed fitness room, a very large indoor great room and covered outdoor
space, all for functions -- you know, functions as gathering spots for social interactions.
These Village -- moving into the homes from the clubhouse, these Village homes will be
single level. That is the guarantee. That is going to be in the development agreement.
That was the selling point to -- to western -- our western neighbor the Baumgartners, up
to 2,000 square foot in size with price points in the low 300,000 dollars and up and,
ironically, I'm walking through the positives. This traffic is the huge positive. These
homes produce 60 percent less traffic than a typical home. So, yes, we needed R-15.
Yes, if you didn't have the single level restriction and everything that we are putting in
development agreement, you could put two stories on these and have a typical home.
These are single level restricted -- age restricted. Sixty percent less traffic. That is in our
traffic -- our TIS study that is submitted in part of your packet. It is a big, big deal. We
are looking forward to bringing a much needed housing product for our aging community.
With this community we serve that aging community that are finding a great nitch for in
our Movado development, while not burdening our schools and our streets. The traffic is
60 percent and no one goes to school. So, these are great pockets of neighborhoods to
put in Meridian. In the -- in the previous hearings and meetings we had lots of discussions
on traffic. I beat the drum of the individual house being 60 percent less, but the exciting
thing -- if you took our previous plans, traffic, and, then, compared it to the new plan, yes,
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there is a few more homes in it, but the traffic is actually decreased by 32 percent. It's a
third less traffic than the plan we had in front of you in March. So, it's not so much about
the number of lots when you're -- when you're dealing with this age-restricted product, it's
about the quality, the lifestyle and there is simply less traffic, less people coming in and
out, less trips to the grocery store, less trips to the soccer park, less trips to everything.
So, clearly we heard so many concerns about traffic that this large of decrease has to be
a big deal. It has to be. Final item. This was the letter that I submitted in several more
meetings with the neighbors. They did not feel that the staff report -- it didn't have a
comfort level of the staff report and our application, which had a lot of these concessions
in it, would make it into the development agreement. So, I submitted a letter on November
16th and I amended it today and amended it with the red, because one neighbor that I
talked to again today out of Blackrock had a -- had one concern about one condition in
the bottom of it in red. So, what -- what we have in front of you today -- Exhibit A is not
normal stuff. It is all the concessions that we gave to produce this great project that you
have in front of you today. All of it is -- is going to go into the development agreement. If
something were to -- I get ran over by a bus tomorrow, the project that's approved is very
pointed, that is why our western boundary neighbor is on board is -- I can't bait and switch.
These aren't going to turn into two story houses with three kids in them. I mean it's --
every bit of this Exhibit A talks about the -- the restrictions and the development, you
know, capping it at 96 Village lots and 41 estate lots, all the way down through the Village
product area and we have six estate lots that actually back up to the Blackrock lots that
we are single level restricting -- these six estate lots that actually back up to the Blackrock
lots that we are single level restricting, these six estate lots, and we are doing that why?
Because the western boundary -- Kathy Baumgartner is deed restricting -- the only time
we deed restrict our property is if the neighbor would also be restricted. She is deed
restricting the future development of her property to the same amount of square footage
that I am, just to ensure that those six homes that she looks at will be single level. We
have worked with her to do it. This is direct benefit to the Blackrock neighbors. You're
going to hear from after me and Kathy Baumgartner is the one that restricted her property
to make this happen. So, we get sent back again and we go to do a different project that
is, you know, a typical R-4, those single level restrictions are going to go out the window,
because Kathy Baumgartner is not going to be on board with me as my west boundary
and we aren't going to be able to give those restrictions, because we will have other
restrictions that we will have to -- or other, you know, concessions, not restrictions -- as
other concessions we will have to give. I could talk all day about the benefits of this age
community in this part, the age restricted, and, then, the large estate lots that take
advantage of the rim. I think everything we have heard City Council state, the importance
-- and, ironically enough, everything we heard importance of neighbors, we are still going
to have several numerous Blackrocks that are in opposition. It's going to be about traffic
and I guess I will come back up, you know, after the presentation and talk about traffic
again. These homes producing 60 percent less than a typical house. So, it would
probably be a pretty short conversation. But in closing this is a -- a wonderful project with
a variety of housing types that we think we hear Meridian ask for. This age restricted is
a giant market that Meridian is right on the cusp of. I think we helped start part of it with
the Movado. We see some others following suit in north Meridian as well, but I publicly
want to thank your planning staff, which was amazing, after the remand numerous
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meetings, they all started in your building and, then, forged our way out to my next thank
you, which is the Meridian Southern Rim Coalition, those meetings ended up -- starting
in your office and, then, ended up in my office for the next numerous months. The
adjacent neighbors. And I can't say enough about the west boundary neighbor Kathy
Baumgartner and her family and the restrictions and constraints that they are putting on
their property as well to have a great product next to them that they can be proud of, live
next to, and we are developers, but we want to leave this neighborhood better than when
we found it. Of course everybody would love the beehives to be out there forever.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jim.
Conger: I'm shutting her down.
De Weerd: Your time is up.
Conger: And the coalition, the neighbors, and we respectfully move you approve the East
Ridge Estates in accordance with the staff report and it was unanimously approved for
recommendation out of the Planning and Zoning Commission. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Jim, thanks for your presentation. There was numerous questions from Council
to staff about plans for water and using city water for irrigation on this project. I think it's
probably unfair to ask staff to articulate what your plans were and how you plan to use
city water. Is that something you could maybe enlighten us on your plans for that?
Conger: Yeah. I can. Madam Mayor, Commissioner -- or Council Member Cavener, as
far as water rights, Kyle does -- said it was getting out of his purview, but he was correctly
on. There is a -- I mean a property has water rights or a property doesn't have water
rights. The lack of water rights has never restricted a piece of property from being able
to develop under your city code. You have a very clear code section on the no water right
portion. We -- by your code we have to request the waiver. We have to prove we have
no water rights. We are very proactive with water rights. We -- we do appreciate having
systems besides city hook ups. We have applied to New York Irrigation District. There
is three districts right there. Really, only -- New York is the only one we can apply to.
Two land sellers ago that individual didn't pay his bills and got in a big fight with the
irrigation company and lost the right. So, this was numerous years ago, probably 15, but
what we have done is we have applied to New York -- I will be honest, that doesn't look
tremendously great. Not a lot of people giving up water rights and there is a waiting list
already, but they are calling it two to four years long, I don't understand how they -- and
they do this for a living, so I have to respect that, but they have given us not great hope.
But what we also have done is we also applied for subsurface water rights and what --
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what appears that we will get approved is eight acres worth of subsurface water rights,
which cost us a little bit more money and we are happy to do it. We have a little more
than four acres of common area. So, if you can start eliminating your common areas from
being on city meters and you start getting part of -- probably what would happen is it
would go into The Village, because The Village -- both our neighborhoods -- the ACCs
are going to be very restrictive on water wise plant material and things of that nature and
in The Village with Blackrock homes, we control the entire landscape package. That
water is probably going to stretch quite a ways in there. So, we are very hopeful for the
subsurface, but we still will need the waiver. But that is I think typical and we have had
two to three other projects in the last six or seven years that had to do that.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? Follow up. Is it your intention, then, for these estate lots and
in your -- your age-restricted project here to each individually connect to city water for
pressurized irrigation or are you going to have a pump house that connects to city water
and distribute your water from -- from there?
Conger: No. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, that is an excellent question. So
-- and it is a two part answer. So, the estate lots will have a water meter to the house
and, then, that also has a backflow preventer, as you indicated, and each lot will water
their own property. The Village, however, it would have a centralized metering system
and all of that is a two wire system that -- I mean our watering needs inside The Village
are very minimal. Our -- our common area, which is the clubhouse area, it's actually not
quite double everything else, but pretty close to equal everything else.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, an additional question. Jim, I don't believe this is the case, but
you can correct me. This -- the neighborhood park isn't intended to be a city park, but
rather a private park for the neighborhood and at The Village?
Conger: No. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, great question. You have an 80
acre regional park across the street. It will be a pittance of that. So, no, this is not a
public park and I may have alluded to that when we cited it for the neighbor's location,
they just -- the neighbors wanted that park further to the west to just stop houses from
coming up at that location. But, no, that is a park for our estate lots. It will have proper
amenities. It's going to have a trellis system, benches, and a real active play area. We
got the tot lot requirement that staff put on us eliminated at Planning and Zoning and we
hope you will carry on with that. These estate type homeowners put those tot lots in their
backyard from all our research and all our past experience. But the larger little play area
where people can get out and actually throw footballs and do some stuff, although our
lots are huge, they will be doing that in their backyards, too, but that will be used by the
estates.
Cavener: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: And I guess -- is there going to be a way that you note on your lot sales that
these will be hooked up to city water, so I'm not going to get the phone calls when they
get their first water bill?
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Conger: Madam Mayor, that's a fair question. So, yes, with the estate lots -- it's -- yeah.
We will have it in all our documentation. We will have it in the CC&Rs, which is recorded
against the property. A lot of people don't read CC&Rs, so we will also have it in additional
sales pamphlets and things of that nature and I will definitely make sure you have my cell
phone number if somebody calls, you could just give them my number.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Having had experience with this, I'm not sure what the mechanism was, but
when I purchased my previous home it was in this situation and at closing I was given a
document that I had to initial saying I knew that I would be paying irrigation taxes, though
I would not be using irrigation water. That my house was, in fact, hooked up to city water
for irrigation. I don't know what that mechanism was that made that an apparent thing
during closing, but there it was.
Conger: We can do something similar.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions at this point from Council? Okay. Thank you.
Conger: Thank you. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Several sign ups this evening for the public hearing
testimony portion. So, first on the list is Sherry Ewing signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Ewing: I am Sherry Ewing and I live at 2934 East Lake Hazel Road and I am opposed to
this subdivision, because of three things, actually. Number one, City Council said we
wanted R-4 and now I don't know what percent, but a very large percent is R-15 and I
think that is unacceptable. The other thing that I am worried about is the over 55 grouping
and how is that going to be restricted? I am thinking that it's not going to be restricted
and it's going to be just overrun by -- I just don't -- I'm not -- I'm not excited about that at
all. I am going to mention to you that two weeks ago I went to a neighborhood meeting -
- not for this subdivision, but directly across the road from us and south of my house and
it's 51 acres. They are putting it in one acre lots, 38 one acre lots, and two weeks ago
when I went to the meeting there was 22 of those 38 lots were spoken for and it hasn't
even gone to Planning and Zoning yet and I called the developer today and he said he
has 32 of the 38 lots spoken for. There is a need for one acre lots and I think if this
subdivision that we are -- is on the board today was put into one acre lots it would have
slid through like gangbusters. I just think that R-15 is ridiculous, so --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
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Ewing: -- any questions?
De Weerd: Thank you, Sherry. Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. And thank you for asking that question, because in previous
applications where there has been an age restriction component to a development that
-- that has been a question that has been bought up and I know Mr. Nary had a good
explanation as to why age restrictions can go one way and not the other.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer. So, courts have
upheld those types of things and, basically, you can restrict them through your CC&Rs
and the development agreement will require it as well. We have had others of those in
the city and we have required those and have not had any issues where there has been
some change, because, again, contractually they have committed to that and we require
that as part of their conditions of approval, so --
Ewing: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: If we may, before we go any further, I just thought it was important to note that
I received a considerable amount of e-mails from our citizens about this application. With
each e-mail I received I replied and let them know that it's an open application, that I
couldn't speak about it, but I wanted it noted on the record that I had responded to the e-
mails that I had received from our citizens.
Coles: Next Kathy Baumgartner in favor of the project, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Baumgartner: Good evening. My name is Kathy Baumgartner and I have a terrible cold,
so I apologize for my voice. I'm at 2310 East Lake Hazel Road and I'm immediately west
of the proposed development. You're probably surprised to see me here in support of
this project, but during the closing statements of our last hearing on this, Madam Mayor,
you reached out to Mr. Conger and suggested that he work with the neighbors and you
said I can't force you to do it, but I strongly encourage it and I just am pleased to report
that Mr. Conger has done that, he's gone over and above, in my opinion, to meet with us
and to work with us on this project. He's worked with us and the coalition in an effort to
come up with a plan that everyone would support and, obviously, that's a very lofty goal,
but he put a lot of effort into -- to working with us and listening to our concerns many of
the -- the larger estate lots along the rim here is in reflection of the need to have more
estate lots. Most of those -- especially along the north boundary here -- are in excess of
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half an acre, which is consistent with what Blackrock is. The concern over the R-15, I
understand that, because it's scary to hear R-15, but this is why I'm supporting it. Right
here. You look at -- what do you see? You see trees, you know. So, in a few years,
instead of a wall of two story houses on 8,000 square foot lots, five feet apart, like you
get in every R-4 subdivision, you're going to see this. That's what I want to look at. So, I
would much rather have an R-15 of single story homes, age restricted, in a private
community like this, than I would to have any R-4 subdivision. There is -- I mean these
lots on -- on the rim are designated as R-4 simply for the -- the street access points and
such. They are much larger than an R-4 subdivision. So, I think we have to commend
Mr. Conger being creative and coming up with a plan that addresses the concerns of
immediate neighbors. The one thing that he -- you know, that Blackrock is what -- you
know, is one and a half to -- one and a half lots to one lot on Blackrock, that is one
concession that he wasn't able to give us, but that might be something that you guys want
to consider is going one to one to make that transition, again, more -- more neighbor
friendly. But he's -- I mean if you look at this list, it's quite detailed of -- of what we have
asked him to do and -- and what he has -- has made concessions to do. I mean he not
only listened, he not only met with us and did those neighborhood meetings, he actually
integrated -- integrated our ideas, made compromises -- we made compromises, he made
compromises and I think that should be commended. I think that's how developers should
work with neighbors as they are coming into developments instead of just pushing things
through and -- and doing the neighborhood meeting as a check box. He actually worked
with us and I think that's important to -- to recognize. I guess I would ask that you approve
this plan subject to the incorporation of Exhibit A into the development plan and if you --
the water is a big issue. I would, you know, pressure -- requiring surface water rights I
think is a reasonable concession, because our tap water -- or our well water is getting
tapped into over and over and over and there is -- it's a limited resource, so, you know,
using surface irrigation rights is a reasonable thing. I know it's tough to get, but I think
you could make it part of the application that --
De Weerd: If you can summarize.
Baumgartner: Yes. When it's available it needs to be put in. So, that's my thoughts. I'd
much rather have this than any R-4 plan and I appreciate Mr. Conger's efforts to be
creative and come up with a compromise that works for most of the neighbors, so with
that I would stand for any question you have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Kathy, in your capacity with the Southern Rim Coalition you and I have had
many discussions about the future of south Meridian and I think in every one of those
meetings you have argued very articulately that there is a demand for one acre lots in
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south Meridian and, in fact, you have criticized me and the Council for allowing for step
up in density. So, you will have to recognize the surprise that I hear --
Baumgartner: Yes.
Cavener: -- that you are -- you are advocating for the things that you have challenged us
on on multiple occasions. So, I'm just curious what -- why the change of heart on those
particular issues and -- and the applicant said that -- and it sounds like you're in agreement
that R-4 wasn't the best product for you as a neighbor and I just wanted to hear that from
you on the record that that's not and -- and explain to us why.
Baumgartner: I think that's a great question. Commissioner Cavener, Madam Mayor, I
-- I appreciate the opportunity to respond to that, because I do feel a little bit conflicted
and -- but the fact is is I'm a very pragmatic person and when this Council remanded this
project as an R-4 project, you guys sealed the fate on what was going to be done on this
piece of property and what Meridian -- southern Meridian could be. I never anticipated
that anything like this would ever be built on this amazing piece of property. It's -- it's not
what I envisioned for it, not what I hoped for it, but when you guys remanded it as R-4
you kind of sealed the fate and so that made me roll up my sleeves and get to work and
figure out how could I make it palatable? How could I -- how could I make it work so that
I don't have to sell my property and put up condos, because that's what you guys want to
see on my piece of property is condos and thanks for not saying it was undeveloped.
Good job, Josh. So, yeah, I mean I want to maintain a rural feel and having those single
story homes next to me and having those shrouded in landscaping at some point over the
next few years is a huge thing for me. So, no, it's not what I wanted to see and -- and it's
-- it's disheartening to me. It's not what I want for south Meridian, but south Meridian is
not what it is -- not what it used to be and it's disappointing, but it's not my property, so
I'm trying to make the best out of it and I think that Mr. Conger has gone over and above
to integrate the concerns of the neighbors into a compromise that works for him and works
for us and I think with that -- I think that -- that senior living community can be a real asset
to that part of the -- to that part of the city, being near the park with less traffic -- I mean
there is so many bonuses and so many pluses to this particular project and -- and the
way it's laid out. But, you're right, it's -- it's not what I had hoped for it, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Baumgartner: Thank you. I have to run to a basketball game, so thank you so much for
your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Dave Blomberg signed up against, not wishing to testify. Joy Blomberg signed
up against, not wishing to testify. Andrea Tlucek signed up against, not wishing to testify.
Laddie Tlucek signed up against, would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
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Tlucek: Yes. My name is Laddie Tlucek -- sorry.
De Weerd: That's all right.
Tlucek: I live at 5866 South Graphite Way in Meridian. Madam Mayor, Members of the
Council, I speak against this proposal. I trust all of us had a nice Thanksgiving and thank
God for all the gifts that we received. Last time I was around this area in this City of
Meridian was when my parents had a dairy farm in Nampa delivering milk to the Meridian
creamery and so I remember taking the curve to Highway 30 to the old road to this
creamery. That was 60 years ago. Imagine what people will say about the City of
Meridian 60 years from now. Things sure look different. Things will look different. What
will the corner of Lake Hazel and Eagle Road look like in 60 years? Part of that answer
perhaps is going to be happening tonight. Several months ago the Council, you, ladies
and gentlemen, remanded the first proposal for East Ridge back to the developer for
changes, because, as I understand it at least, there were too many houses there,
according to what would seem right. The first proposal had 117 and the second one,
however, has 139, with a bunch of age-restricted patio homes in the middle of it. This
increase of houses -- I would be interested in the figures of the lessening of traffic, but the
very fact that there is 20 houses more there would seem to indicate there was more
activity. As far as the irrigation water rights, the lack of them, homeowners will have to
depend upon the City of Meridian for that water and I can envision when they get their
first bill that summer that month there will be a whole lot of turning off the water and a lot
of brown scars in that area. I speak against this, because to my knowledge the developer
had one meeting with Blackrock, not the many that he proposes or alleged to have had,
and I can't understand how he could have come up with the plan that is existing now that
he is proposing the second time after having had the input of us at that first meeting.
Remember the folks -- I'm just about done, Your Honor. Thank you. Remember the folks
who live near Eagle Road -- one more thing I'd like to -- and Lake Hazel. One more thing
I'd like to give thanks for is the opportunity to testify tonight and know that you have the
responsibility -- we have given you the responsibility to make a difference for those who
not only live in there -- in Meridian in 2017, but in the next 60 years. Thank you for your
attention.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Joe Reger signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Reger: My name is Joe Reger and I live at 2092 East Taconic Drive in Blackrock.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Reger: Madam Mayor and all the Council, my comments are going to be brief, but I -- I
built a house up there in 2011 and we were surrounded by corn fields, potato fields, it was
nice. We moved from -- off of Five Mile and Overland and we really enjoy the openness
we have. We have seen -- in fact, we started it -- we had 40 some lots there and I think
there was only probably about, oh, 25 or 30 of them at that point in time were developed
and they have all been developed now, except maybe two. But I see this as being a --
obviously, I need to say I guess I'm against the whole proposal there, DevCo's plan. But
the traffic is going to be horrible. If you look at that map you see where all these people
are going to go, they are not going to go out to Lake Hazel and down to get somewhere
down to -- I don't care where -- down towards Overland or whatever, they are going to
come right down through Blackrock. We have a horrible traffic problem now and it's going
to get worse. So, if you think people aren't going to take a shortcut to go through
Blackrock, you're -- you're smoking dope, because they are going to do that and even --
even today -- again, with that -- they are developing that YMCA down there, they are
going to putting -- they have the school down there. They are going to be putting the
library down there. It's going to get worse and worse and worse and you're going to have
all these people coming down through Blackrock to get there. So, that's my -- my whole
point is is that -- this is too strong of a density for that particular area. I like a little more
space. I have a one acre lot. I love it. I love to be able to water it. I love to be able to
water it. I love to be able to see it green. I love to be able to see the big open space that
we have now. But with the zoning and the planning that he's putting there with these
houses, it's too compact. It's just going to be horrible. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Reger.
Coles: Ann Shelton signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Shelton: Good evening. My name is Ann Shelton. I live at 2498 Cyanite Drive. I'm
directly against on the north side of this new sub -- proposed subdivision. First off I have
a question for you, because I'm unsure. We established several things in the previous
meeting about this development, but is this a new application? Do we have to start
testifying again or -- it is. I'm seeing head nods. Okay. Okay. My number one concern,
therefore, is for our children. There are numerous children that live on Cyanite. It is a
downhill street, so as they would come off of this street down into Blackrock Subdivision
-- and mind you I don't have a problem with developing. I don't have a problem with that.
I have a problem with how this is being developed. That construction from the very get
go needs to have -- and that whole entrance onto Lake Hazel -- not just for construction
traffic, the heavy, big earth movers, but the actual contractors that -- when they come in
-- I know that there is no law that can require them to do that, but Mr. Conger has power
and he can make sure that they do that. I think it's critical for the children in this
neighborhood to not have to fight traffic flying -- and we -- we have seen it with Sky Mesa.
These contractors just fly through these neighborhoods. Thank you to the Police
Department for patrolling our area after that last meeting we had, because it really did
help. Even I make sure I'm going to 25, because 25 is hard to do going down a hill. It
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just is. So, it's important for our children to make sure that they don't have to compromise
our safety. There was little kids out there the other day on their skateboards and tricycles
on Thanksgiving and I can only imagine what it would be like with traffic coming around
that corner onto Cyanite. So, that's my first thing. My second thing is when this was
remanded back -- so, I know this is a new application, so it's not really applicable, but
when you guys sent it back to Mr. Conger to rethink the whole thing, 117 houses was
what he needed to rethink, and he came up with 139. I totally disagree with this plan. I
do not like the 55 and up concept. I am compassionate for Kathy Baumgartner. I love
my view as well. So, I know how she feels and she doesn't want to see a bunch of two
story homes, but the reality of it is I would rather see more open space and that's all. Any
questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just because it's come up two times in a row, there is a map I think on the
computer screen in front of us.
Shelton: Yes, sir.
Cavener: Your concern is about traffic going through Cyanite and Blackrock.
Shelton: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Can you share with us on the mouse where those people would go and why
that's a concern? From my perspective it looks like the vast majority of the people would
want to exit onto Lake Hazel and not drive through a neighborhood to get to Eagle.
Shelton: Okay. Oh. The mouse -- up. Right. Okay.
Cavener: Let's say you're at the neighborhood park and I want --
Shelton: Right here.
Cavener: Uh-huh.
Shelton: Oops. Sorry. I didn't mean to do that. Now what do I do? Thank you.
Cavener: Can you just --
Shelton: I will not touch that. Okay. So, they are going to come down this street onto
Black -- this is Cyanite right here and they are going to go down Taconic. The officer may
be able to tell you how many tickets were given. Nobody goes 25. And my concern with
construction traffic in particular -- not the neighbors when they eventually move in, they
will be sensitive to children, too. But contractors are not. And, therefore, I hope that
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whenever this development goes in that the City Council will make the developer do that
entry onto Lake Hazel in phase one. Not phase three, phase one.
De Weerd: The contractor in the Exhibit A that he referred to does have that as
construction access will be from Lake Hazel Road.
Shelton: Perfect. I don't mean just construction, like the big earth movers, I mean the
whole road system put in, so that these contractors can get into those homes as well.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Ben Shelton also signed up against, not wishing to testify. Susan Karnes signed
up, against wishing to testify.
Karnes: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Karnes: Susan Karnes. 5556 South Graphite Way. Madam Mayor, Members of the
Council, I sent you a rather detailed letter a couple of weeks ago expressing my opposition
to this, so I won't reiterate all of that. I know that you have -- you have read these letters
and public testimony thoughtfully. So, I will take this opportunity to speak on behalf of the
neighbor who has had a medical crisis in her family and go into a little further explanation
about the concern of the traffic going down Cyanite. The terrain -- you know, we are up
on the rim, it's rolling terrain, and as the -- as Lake Hazel leaves Eagle Road in heads
westward, it goes uphill and so anyone exiting East Ridge intending to go to Eagle Road,
has to make a left-hand turn in a rather blind situation and this is -- as the applicant has
pointed out to you numerous times, Lake Hazel is slated to be five lanes, seven at the
intersection. This is going to be eventually a lot of heavy, fast traffic and so it seems
natural that even if you have an estimated 700 trips a day out of East Ridge, it seems
reasonable that half of them will opt to take -- especially over five -- 55 people -- and I am
one -- rather than do a dangerous left-hand turn onto a major arterial, I would always opt
for the quieter neighborhood route. I think what is striking on this overview is the fact that
we don't have a street connection between East Ridge and Sky Mesa, because the blue
road that heads north could so easily join up with this cul-de-sac in Sky Mesa and that's
one thing that my neighbor had asked that I bring up with you, that we -- we estimate
today that Cyanite has about an average of 59 trips per day. So, even if half of the
estimated 751 use Cyanite, that would mean that this quiet, winding, narrow street would
go from 59 trips to 434 and where Cyanite meets Taconic, we have a bus stop and there
are numerous, numerous young children constantly in our streets and specifically on
Cyanite, because it has a little bit of a faux cul-de-sac. You can see kind of the inlet there.
So, my neighbor has requested that you consider stubbing a street from Sky Mesa into
East Ridge. I will say as a homeowner living on the slope, that I would ask the slope be
common lot here if you were to go so far as to approve this application and that it be
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irrigated and planted to mitigate against fire and erosion in the development agreement.
Stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Susan, what slope are you referencing? It looks to have been graded away.
Karnes: These -- the -- the north side and the east side of East Ridge will have pretty
substantial slope, which would be comparable to that in Sky Mesa and Reflection Ridge,
which I think Council has clearly asked that that be common lot and this plan includes
slope as part of these lots.
Borton: Madam Mayor? What you reference was in that 45 foot -- it was there a moment
ago.
Beach: Council Member Borton, there is a plat that will show that a little better, so let me
pull that up for you.
Borton: So, to make sure I understand what you're referencing.
Beach: That shows it a little bit better.
Borton: Okay. On the north and the east.
Beach: Correct. To the dotted line on the north side of the plat up to the -- up to the top
is that -- that slope easement that's indicated there and, then, wraps around this side as
well.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? Thank you.
Karnes: Thank you.
Coles: Christie Herwy sign up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Herwy: My name is Christine Herwy. I live at 2373 East Taconic Drive in Blackrock.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Herwy: So, I changed my mind of what I was going to say, because of some other things
that were covered, but I really need to get across the point that Blackrock was not in these
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conversations. So, there was a lot of -- Mr. Conger indicated there was a lot of work with
the neighbors. We had one meeting where he gave two plats, one was this, although it
wasn't as detailed and one was with an R-4 and he basically told us that if it was an R-4
that he would sell it off and we wouldn't know how it would be developed. So, I don't
really think that's working with the neighbors. He did work with Kathy Baumgartner. He
did have meetings with the Coalition, but Blackrock neighbors were not part of that. Just
want you to know that. He actually sent you a letter saying that he had a lot of support.
We sent -- our HOA sent a letter dispelling that. So, I hope that you did read that, because
it's just not true and there will be other people I'm sure talking about that as well. I also
wanted to bring up the fact about the brown water. I have listened to this several times
over the last several months. I have lived in Blackrock since 2008. I never had brown
water until this year. Ever. And I was like the third house up there. So, we are talking
about, well, you have brown water because there is not enough users. Well, why when
there was 45 lots up there and three were built on, why did I never have a problem until
now? So, I don't know that that is really the cause. Just food for thought. Also I have
lived in a subdivision about the size of a lot of -- of Tuscany where we did have to pay --
it wasn't Tuscany, but I had to pay for my water. Three hundred dollars a month in the
summer. So, if you're looking at these larger lots, how are they going to afford that? I
mean that is a huge expense. I can't even imagine what that would cost. And, you know,
we can say people are -- are going to know ahead of time, but when you go to get the
title it's already kind of too late. I mean people need to know right -- right away that this
is part of what they have to factor into their budget. Water is a big deal I think. Also, you
know, the first application had over 260 petitions against it for 117 lots. We are now 139
lots and the reasons why it was remanded from -- you know, when we went back and
looked, was because the density was too high. It wasn't -- it wasn't a good transition from
half acre to acre lots to these -- to these small lots. There wasn't enough amenities. The
green space wasn't large enough. And I don't know that any of that is fixed in this. And,
then, to adjust -- to address the over 55, from my knowledge, what I understand, is there
only has to be one person in the household that's 55 years old. Also there is not a tot lot
and you can say, oh, well, these people in these big houses will have -- what about these
grandma and grandpas supposedly in this 55 and over, where are their kids going to play?
And there is plenty of people that live on larger lots that don't necessarily have -- shouldn't
have to have their own tot lot if you will. So, I would ask that you very much reconsider
low density in this area, because it does seem like that is the most appropriate use of
land. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Before we call the next person up, the previous testimony indicated a -- a letter
from the Blackrock homeowners association. I didn't see that and I don't know if I -- if I
have missed it or if it may be under a different name. Okay. Thank you.
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De Weerd: And we do have that.
Coles: Next on the list Tim Foster signed up against, wishing to testify.
Foster: While he's pulling that up, my name is Tim Foster. I live at 5805 South Graphite
Way and, first of all, I'd like to take a second to -- to thank Mr. Bird, since this is probably
going to be my last time in front of you guys for this Council, I'd like to thank you, Council
Member Bird, for all your service to our city. It's been a great pleasure. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you very much.
Foster: So, two major issues that have been -- I think may have been overlooked by staff
that needs to be addressed before this application can be approved. As you can see this
-- the Grimmett Lateral, which is the -- the Boise-Kuna Irrigation District line runs through
this proposed application -- is creating the easement that has to be followed properly.
These easements are what Mr. Conger is calling setbacks. All irrigation easements, like
this one, have to have a 40 foot easement based on the centerline of that lateral. In Mr.
Conger's application he shows the relocation of the Grimmett Lateral down on the lower
right-hand corner there. Sorry. I'm trying to read quick, so I get all this on here. While
the Boise Project Board of Control will approve this move -- the movement of this, they
do have very stringent guidelines on their easements. The Boise Project does not
approve any landscaping to be done on their easements, other than grass, because they
would need to minimize their costs if they have to come back through and work on this
type of situation. As you can see in Mr. Conger's landscape plan, he's got wrought iron
fencing, he's got a walking path, many of these things that cannot be there for the irrigation
district. As a matter of fact, in my certain circumstance I have an easement behind my
house and I was flat out told if you put a fence on our easement we will tear it down and
you will pay to have it moved. So, the easement also must remain a flat, drivable surface.
Looking at this landscaping plan, you can see that there is actually no access to this
easement. Both of these issues come in a letter that is in your packet. The second issue
that pertains is the slope of this property. This is a picture of the -- the Grimmett and,
then, this is also the -- the northern section, which Black -- buts up next to Blackrock and
Sky Mesa. As you might remember, the slope between Blackrock and Sky Mesa was put
into a common area, so that Sky Mesa could maintain this area. This was put in by you
guys, the Council in front -- that I'm in front of. This property will also have the same issue
both on the north and part of the east side. Since the Council has already set the
precedence by making these slopes into HOA common areas, I request that this also has
to be done on this one -- this scenario here. If it -- if it doesn't end up in that type of an
HOA easement, it's going to end up just like the problem we have with the Sky Mesa
North where it's actual homeowners lots, not theirs, and it creates a lot of weeds. We
also would request at the -- the HOA easement area would be planted in, you know,
proper landscape vegetation, so that we don't have any type of erosion or -- or fire hazards
or anything like that and that's the reason why I -- I don't like this plan in front of us. Any
questions?
De Weerd: Thank you. No. But thank you for the pictures.
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Foster: You're welcome.
De Weerd: It puts context.
Coles: Next Jen Foster signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
J.Foster: Good evening. Jenny Foster. 5805 South Graphite, Meridian. Blackrock. So,
I'm here to talk about the water and using city water for irrigation, which I know that we
have talked about it a little bit, but Jim Conger is requesting a waiver to use city water for
irrigation on this property. I feel this waiver should not be granted for the following
reasons: If this was the Council's idea to separate our drinking water from irrigation water
many years ago, the reasoning used for this decision was sound and justifiable. It cost
the city a lot of money to treat our city water and it is wasteful -- excuse me. I'm nervous.
-- to use it on our yards. Also the thought of contamination to our wells by the improper
backflow was just not worth the risk to our neighbors. This is why the City of Meridian
banned dual connections on March 1st. They had to be done and removed by March 1st
of 2012. This is costly to the homeowners. Average cost for water reaches into the
hundreds of dollars monthly for an 8,000 to 12,000 square foot lot. The rim lots proposed
by Conger are close to half acre lots. These lots have the potential of exceeding over
500 bucks a month for water. You know, people, when they don't have the money to pay
for it, those lawns are going to be brown and it's not going to look nice and the neighbors
are not going to be happy about that. The soil on this property is extremely nutrient
deficient, which would mean even more water is needed. With a single connection like
what we will probably use in this subdivision, based on current city water regulations, all
irrigation water will be paid through an HOA. When the homeowners realize the extreme
cost of this, they will want to only pay for their share, which will not be able to be calculated
out, thus adding to the complexity and frustration. At that there is a mix of half acre lots,
patio style homes, how do you adjust the cost equally? If I have got a smaller home I
don't want to pay for your lot with more water. I want to pay for what I use. How are you
going to figure that out? By what he's proposing you can't. This is just a bad scenario for
the situation. Jim Conger has also asked the Idaho Department of Water Resources for
enough water for eight and a half acres. This is in his application, which I do have here
if anybody wants to see it. It's just for the common areas only. This is the minimum for
the plan. This also means that Jim must install two separate irrigation systems, because
the water requested from the Idaho Department of Water Resources may not be used for
the rest of the subdivision. If this water is used for any other purposes than to water the
common areas, it can be removed -- it can be reported to the Idaho Department of Water
Resources and his water rights for the eight acres can be revoked. What does the
subdivision do when this happens? For these major issues I request the irrigation water
not be granted. The other point is he keeps saying that he's talked to the New York
Irrigation District. New York Irrigation doesn't cover this area. It's the Boise-Kuna
Irrigation. So, if he's talking to New York, they don't govern it. Boise-Kuna does. Thank
you.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Susanna Bohlman signed up against, not wishing to testify. Ted Bohlman signed
up against, not wishing to testify. Serge Kasurbin signed up as neutral, not wishing to
testify. Doug Wheeler signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Wheeler: Doug Wheeler. 2402 East Taconic. Blackrock. Madam Mayor and Council,
we have met before and appreciate having your time again. I was actually going to try to
summarize. The sign-up process back here to when we are going to speak sometimes
doesn't -- allow us to listen to the whole evening and summarize it. But I will summarize
it where we are at this point. A couple of things that I think are very important. I think that
I must have my head in the sand for all these meetings, the neighborhood meetings,
because I did not see them, all these that are -- are talked about by Mr. Conger. The
other thing is we are not talking about farmland development, which we see so much
throughout Meridian. Much of the land is that. We are talking about rim areas. So, we
are really not talking about just a regular developer coming in and here is what we ought
to do for the land, this is prime property in the northern part of the rim. You saw that that
was very valuable property and property that needed to be treated correctly. I think we
can do much better on this kind of land than putting just a 55 and over. I think we are
going to have a lot of young people asking grandma to come and live with them if we are
going to take this into 55, because I -- my understanding is that one person in the family
has to be over 55. As far as the amount of traffic, I think a lot of 55 year old people are
more active around the other -- the other people go to work and they come back. Fifty-
five people during the day are up and down. I live in the corner of our development and
I see traffic constantly all day long. So, I don't know where they get the numbers for so
much less traffic from 55 and over, but I'm sure there is statistics somewhere for that. So,
I'm kind of summarizing what I feel on there, that we are just -- have to make sure that
we -- as the Mayor said before -- do things right and we only have one chance. So,
appreciate you looking very carefully at this whole situation.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir.
Coles: Gary Andrew signed up against, not wishing to testify. Mary Affleck signed up
against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Affleck: My name is Mary Affleck. I live at 6519 South Raap Ranch Lane, directly south
of the development -- proposed development and I just want to tell you how much we love
living in Meridian. I think it is such a blessing to be here and I think that's what --
everybody is kind of complaining, because they love it so much, too, and we all moved to
that same area so that we couldn't spit on our neighbors. We just like the peace and the
quiet and the tranquility. We are on 16 acres right across from where this is proposed
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and we are seeing developments go up everywhere and it scares us to death, because
we are losing our peace, I guess, our tranquility, and that's what Kathy was looking for
was the least invasive type of community and the last time I talked to you I mentioned
that really nobody could find acre lots in the area. If they were five acres or an acre that
they would just sell like that and I'm going to piggyback on what my neighbor said. We
went to this meeting and I don't know -- do you have the picture of the whole area there?
This meeting was for the subdivision that is going in just south of this one and a little bit
east. So, it's right on Lake Hazel and Eagle Road. Yeah. You can see. It says RUT
there and the LDS church is right in the middle of it. So, it's just south and a little bit east
and all the neighbors were invited. We are right there on the west side of that and they
are putting in acre to acre and a half lots, 38 of them. The man that is doing the
subdivision, the development, has never advertised. All he put up was one sign on the
corner of the road between Lake Hazel and Eagle and I didn't even notice it for the first
couple of weeks, but by the time we went to the meeting, which was like two weeks ago,
22 of the homes have been sold -- or no. How many? Twenty-two. And now there are
32 out of 38 and some of the people that signed up for those homes put 10,000 dollars
on it are from Tennessee and Texas. That's how widespread it is. And I -- I Googled this
on the internet. You can't find it. Unless they put it up in the last week you can't find
anything. It's called The Keep. The acreage starts at 230,000 dollars and the most
expensive, the one acre, goes up to 350,000. There is a need and we would like the
smallest footprint in that area possible. If we could get an acre lot across the street, Kathy
would jump and dance for joy, because that's what we really want. Anyway, that's all I
have to say. I just want to piggyback and I just thank you for letting us live in this wonderful
city. We really appreciate everything that you do for us. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you very much.
Coles: Brian Affleck also signed up against, not wishing to testify. Andrew Allen signed
up against and would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Allen: Andrew Allen. 2436 East Cyanite. Blackrock.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Allen: I'm probably the newest member of Blackrock. I moved in about four months ago.
My wife and I were looking for about a half acre, acre lot. We started looking about four
years ago and we had simple requirements, 3,500 square feet, plus half acre to an acre
and it took four years. We searched and searched. Buildable lots. Toured existing
homes. Used several estate -- real estate agents, but we came to realize that at that time
south Meridian was severely lacking in these types of lots and we feel -- I feel really
extremely lucky to have found our home. Prior to moving to this home we heard about
this East Ridge Estates development, the original plan, and we were really surprised at
how small the lots were originally, because in all of our dealings in the last four years all
we heard from a lot of other people is, oh, I wish there were more lots half acre to an acre
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in this area. It didn't -- it didn't really seem to fit the needs of the community and many of
my associates have been looking for homes with that lot size and weren't able to do so.
I'm a physician. There is the big new hospital up in Nampa that just went up and there is
a new medical school that's coming in and I have spoken to several physicians that are
coming through recruiting, as well as people that are looking for homes like this and the
demand is great, as the Afflecks had mentioned, the home -- the development right --
right south of this area, the acre lots. I don't want to take any more of your time, I just
wanted to say that I think we need a lower density area and this -- this R-15 area doesn't
really make any sense. It doesn't make any sense at all. That's it.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir.
Coles: Earl Brace I signed up in favor, not wishing to testify. Don Cantrell signed up
against and would like to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Cantrell: Good afternoon. Don Cantrell at 3000 East Lake Hazel. I don't know if you
have that other picture where they have their lot -- and I own the property to the east --
on the east side. Anyhow, out of the 40 acres I have got 35 of the acres and on the east
side of the property there from DevCo there, after our last conversation they were going
to put in a six foot solid fence, because of the irrigation -- the guy with of the cattle and
the agriculture -- the liability factor and I now am under the impression they are putting in
a wrought iron fence. I'm not for sure the height of it or the width. Is it small enough to
keep the kids out and is it tall enough to keep the kids from crawling over, as well as the
animals, chasing the cattle, as well as the horses. Once, again, my house was built back
in '86. Twenty years ago you may have had one or two cars that past down Lake Hazel
at 50 miles an hour, who complained. Once, again, I would really like to see if -- whatever
development's happening, that the traffic is down to at least 35. Our mailboxes are across
the street. Once, again, I think we are -- the traffic where they look at us as points, if they
can whack us they get an extra one or two points. I mean no one in the last ten years
has stopped to go across to get the mail. Once, again, we have two hidden spots on the
east and the west where -- where the house is, they come up -- on our last -- first hearing
-- and if you were in here and I apologize for saying this, but, anyway, in the morning
there were two large -- one black lab and another one very similar, they both got whacked
coming up -- the -- the little knoll, because they didn't see them. Shortly after a few weeks
later there was a gal that, once again, was coming down that little hill doing her 50 plus,
supposedly a duck was coming across, she swerved, hit the tree on the other side of the
street and rolled it onto the DevCo property. Quite a mess. The traffic doesn't do 50. I
can assure you they are doing 55, 60. From 7:20 to 7:40 it's very difficult to get out of our
driveway. It would be really nice to get the traffic down to 35 for whatever happens, as
well as getting our mailbox from across the street over onto our side before all of this extra
is happening, as well as our irrigation for our property comes across the DevCo property
onto our property, which irrigates all 40 of the acres. Once they start developing, we have
a bubbler on their property which comes across and down on the Patel's property down
on the ridge and, then, in return we have a pressurized irrigation. What happens to that
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line if they are building homes right across us? Who is responsible? Do we lose our
irrigation water? Can I not water the 40 acres -- as the neighbors that I'm responsible for
as well, because there is five lots, I own two of them, so there is three of them. What
happens there? So, there is a real concern as far as speed, fence, irrigation for what we
have to deal with. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. I appreciate your points and we will ask Mr. Conger.
Coles: Jim Stroo signed up against, wishing to testify.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: While he comes up can I ask one question of Caleb or at least leave a question,
you can respond to in a moment, but there has been conflicting evidence about the
improvements planned on Lake Hazel and when they are going to be improved. There
is comments of two to three lanes in the 2035 CIP and, then, comments that it's five lanes,
perhaps seven at the intersection. Later on if you can reconcile what that plan is that
would be great.
De Weerd: And you are the HOA president, Mr. Stroo; correct?
Stroo: I'm sorry. Jim Stroo. 2495 East Cyanite.
De Weerd: Thank you. And as the HOA president you have ten minutes.
Stroo: No. I'm only going to take three minutes of your time.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I'm not going to argue.
Stroo: Well, I could talk for ten minutes. There is a lot of stuff I would like to read, but --
but I want to state for the record -- although it does show it -- I am opposed to this
application and while the over 55 -- the concept I really truly believe over 55 housing is
necessary as we age, it's just not right for this area. The parcel -- and I know you can't
go out and visit it, but if you would be able to you would have 350 degree views, you
would be able to see the foothills, you would be able to see Emmett Squaw -- Squaw
Peak, the Trinities, the Owyhees, it's a beautiful -- a lot of different elevations. I want to
switch and really talk about something that was touched on, but not emphasized a lot and
that is the traffic and specifically this stub out that was required in the Sky Mesa
application, we didn't -- nobody's really emphasized or requested to have a connection
between that stub out and Sky Mesa to the development for East Ridge. The importance
of that. We have heard a lot of talk about turning left onto Lake Hazel and how difficult
that will be and it truly will be difficult. Again, I know you can't go visit it. It is really a blind
turn. A lot of people going very fast. Most people will route themselves back through the
subdivision all the way to Eagle and with the proposed roundabout here that makes going
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northbound on Eagle even easier than the four way stop or stop light that may come up
at Lake Hazel and Eagle Road. You can see if we did this connection here between the
East Ridge Estates, Sky Mesa, then, would go down this route and out, look how short
that is. More direct. They are not going through a whole subdivision winding their way
back to Taconic out to Eagle Road. It just makes sense. Now, the other point I want to
make is there is a fire station up Eagle Road. There is planned one down on Lake Hazel
at some point in time. Don't know when that's going to be. If I were city services sending
an ambulance, sending a fire truck, would I roll all the way up here, all the way over here
or here? Would I actually go this way to get services in or is this a more appropriate direct
route? So, again, what I would ask you to seriously consider is requiring that this
connection gets -- gets made. It was required in the plan for Sky Mesa. It should also be
for East Ridge Estates. With that I will stand for questions. Perfect.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Cameron Keller signed up against, not wishing to testify. Charles Byerly signed
up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Byerly: My name is Charles Byerly and I live at 2412 East Cyanite in Blackrock.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Byerly: A couple things reiterating, just to make sure it's on the record. I am one of the
parents of the small child on Cyanite, so when they are talking about traffic coming
through -- and several people have said if there is a construction entrance proposed onto
Lake Hazel, which would bring in the heavy equipment, I think what we are more
concerned about are the drywallers, the plumbers, the electricians coming through with
their pickup trucks that are going to come up through our street, which is about 12 -- ten,
12 homes on this one little short street and we are going to take the brunt of all that traffic
with our kids out on the street. Secondly, when you're talking about the traffic, like Mr.
Stroo was just saying, you have the new park that's proposed on Lake Hazel that's going
in and right now down between Cloverdale and Eagle on Lake Hazel there is soccer fields.
When they have a tournament it's next to impossible to get off on Eagle Road. So, if you
have that park that has any kind of tournament activity, Lake Hazel is going to be a zoo.
So, I agree that everybody's going to reroute down through the subdivisions to get out.
Thirdly for me I empathize with Kathy, she wants that beautiful, hidden retirement village,
but if water is an issue those trees are not going to be what she's looking for. She's not
going to have anything there if people can't afford to water. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Coles: Marilee Andrew signed up against, wishing to testify.
M.Andrews: Marilee Andrew. 2417 East Taconic Drive. I would just like to remind you
after Conger's first application last spring that we submitted 260 petitions that were turned
into the city at that time that were all opposed to this development and I personally helped
get some of those signatures and know these people and I assure you that if those
residents were against R-4, they would gladly sign another petition against this higher
density plan. Mr. Conger would also have you believe that he has the surrounding
neighborhood approval, but that is quite the opposite. I have letters here in my hand that
are all on public record between Mr. Conger and Blackrock HOA President Jim Stroo and
the Southern Coalition that support that both Blackrock and the South Rim Coalition are
against and in a nutshell Mr. Conger did hold one public meeting where he presented two
options, an R-4 development where the houses were crammed in and he indicated that
he would likely sell it off to another developer as it didn't pencil out for him and I just think
that was kind of a scare tactic and as we showed that the one acre lots are in demand
and there are going for a high price, I think you can get a nice penny for those. The other
was the R-4, R-15 development that he has taken to the city now. He never reached out
to the Blackrock HOA at any time. Jim Stroo, the president of the HOA, did write him a
letter indicating that we could not support his development for various reasons and asked
that we hoped -- hoped that he would contact us for further discussion. The Blackrock
HOA held a meeting and polled homeowners on the preference. Homeowners were
asked if they supported, one, the R-4 or, two, the R-4, R-15 or neither. Overwhelmingly
the neighbors said neither. This was the information related to Mr. Conger from the HOA.
He never, then, responded and claimed that he did and that he had our support. He did
work with the Coalition and came up with his list of concessions. Blackrock did not attend
those meetings and we told the Coalition that we were not in support of it. Those -- the
collation ultimately also sent him a letter indicating that there was not a unanimous vote
one way or the other and, therefore, the coalition could not support the development
either. These letters are all on public record and I just think that the truth there was a little
stretched and exaggerated that he had our support. And also on the safety. I also live at
the entrance of Blackrock and I'm concerned about the safety, not only for the
construction, but the potential resident traffic. My mailbox has been flattened twice and I
have witnessed other construction trucks that can't make the turn or the little bottleneck
entrance that they have come up on the curb many times when I just happened to witness
that. So, that's a concern for myself as well. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for you. If you can. Thanks. You talked a lot about your -- the survey
that you held with your fellow residents. How many people in your neighborhood
participated in that?
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M.Andrews: I personally did the road below me on Sky Mesa.
Cavener: Oh. Sorry. I mean you had indicated that the residents had been given an
option of these are the two options presented by the applicant and the vast majority picked
neither. I'm just curious how many of those -- how many people participated?
M.Andrew: I couldn't say. There was -- I don't know. Thirty? I don't have those numbers.
Sorry.
Cavener: Thank you.
M.Andrew: It's a small neighborhood, though. Blackrock itself is a very small
neighborhood, so 30 is actually a pretty good number.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, additional question if I may. Talk me through -- you indicated -
- and I remember this -- earlier this spring, the 260 petitions against this. Why do you
think that we are not seeing those same type of petitions this time and to your point you
live in a small neighborhood, but it seemed to me that the petitions indicated more of a
community support and I'm just hearing more from Blackrock than anybody else and I'm
just curious as to why.
M.Andrew: Okay. Well, I have talked to a few of them myself and I think this time around
I think they are really discouraged. They thought it was a done deal. They were shocked
that this was back where it was and pretty discouraged. They didn't feel -- they don't --
they don't believe in the system. They are kind of frustrated and this is your guys' job, no
offense. Mr. Conger, that's his job. But we are just, you know, family-oriented people
that have -- I'm missing my daughter's dance right now to be here. So, they have things
to do and places to be and -- and it's a lot of time out of their schedules to come support
this, when it's not -- nothing's being done. That's kind of the way they feel. So, I think
that they are just discouraged. They tried the first time and here we are again and it's not
a lack of -- that they don't care, because I personally -- like I said, I have talked to them
and they are just a little discouraged. So, that's my opinion. That's the ones I talked to.
Cavener: Thanks for your candor. I appreciate it.
M.Andrew: All right.
Coles: Pat -- Pat Looney signed up against, not wishing testify. Debbie Brain signed up
against and said maybe she wanted to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
And you can move that --
Brain: A little bit over here?
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De Weerd: Yes.
Brain: And down?
De Weerd: Thank you.
Brain: My name is Debbie Brain and I live at 2389 East Taconic in Meridian in Blackrock.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Brain: And I'm opposed to this new application and back to what Merrilee was talking
about. I think a lot of the reason that there aren't more people here -- or documents
signed again this time is because people are confused, they really didn't know if it was a
continuance of the last application or a new application. But, anyway, I want to talk about
why I'm opposed to this new application. There are many reasons, but the thing that
bothers me the most is the R-8 and the R-15 zoning and I don't really understand when it
was sent back to Planning and Zoning for R-4 why it comes back this way. I think that --
I don't think they should have approved that and when Sherry Ewing was talking about
The Keep, the new subdivision, it's on the southwest corner of Eagle and Lake Hazel, we
have been up there and we looked at that subdivision and they have a really nice layout.
They have acre plus lots. They are expensive and they are almost all sold and they have
irrigation water. They have a lot to offer. So, for me what I would really like to have
happen is I would like to have some bigger lots and keep the area like it is right now,
subdivisions that would fit into our neighborhood better. So, I'm just asking that you would
deny this application. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Bob Brain signed up against, wishing to testify.
R.Brain: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
R.Brain: Robert Brain. 2389 East Taconic.
De Weerd: Okay. Now, you can pull it up. Thank you.
R.Brain: Okay. I'm going to talk about the traffic issues we have got. You know, we
bought our lot ten years ago. Built about four years ago. We bought there because of
the large lots that -- we were out in the country and slowly -- we knew it was going to
grow, but not to the extent it has. You know, we have got such traffic issues now with
speeding and stuff -- last March at the meeting here I talked to the police department and
asked them if there was something they could do for our area. They said, you know, we
can bring out a board -- a reader board, but we do not have the people or the ability to
cover that area right now. He said we will do what we can. So, we got to see them about
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-- one officer come here once a week or maybe twice a week during a non-busy time
and, you know, write a few tickets, but it wasn't taking care of the problems. They put up
a reader board, it didn't slow people down. In May I went to the police department and
asked them, again, they said we still don't -- during the busy times of the day they do not
have the people or the resources to cover us. You know, if we are approving subdivisions
and we don't have the resources to cover them, we are in trouble. You know, there is two
houses still to be built in our -- in our subdivision. I'm retired. I'm home most of the time.
I see the cars speeding up and down the road. The people that work in them houses --
there is an island on our subdivision. They were racing down each side of it to see who
could get to the other end of that island fastest. This is the kind of stuff goes on constantly
and we are not being patrolled. East Ridge may not, when it's all finished, put a lot of
traffic down on that road, but they are going to put some. The problem is they have got
to be able to control the people that work there. Otherwise, we are going to have a real
problem where we are at. It's a safety issue now and isn't getting controlled. So, I hate
to see that. Even the people that are working on the houses being able to come through
our -- the subdivision during construction. Thank you.
Coles: Mike Wageman signed up against, not wishing to testify. Loni Wageman signed
up against saying maybe she wanted to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Wageman: Loni Wageman. 5662 South Graphite Way in Blackrock.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wageman: Madam Mayor and Council Members, I just wanted to let you know I am
against the proposed subdivision. I have two issues that I just wanted to get on record.
One is the traffic and one is the water. The traffic in -- on Taconic is horrendous. Sky
Mesa below us also exits onto Taconic. Last time we were here I know Council Member
Bird said you were familiar with construction and the vehicles that are involved, so you
have cement trucks, land moving trucks, dirt trucks, rock trucks, lumber trucks, and, then,
you have all the smaller vehicles building the house. Electricians. Plumbers. Roofers. I
mean it goes on. At any given time in front of one house being built you could have five
to ten huge vehicles in front and if you have a lineup of new homes going in, you have to
contend with all those vehicles. So, every once in a while I will drive down and go out
Marsala that goes to Amity and 25 percent of the time I have to make a U-turn and exit
back out at Taconic, because the roads are completely blocked. There is a big cement
thing and a big framing roof thing in the road just completely blocking it and so that's what
we would have to contend with on Taconic going up through Cyanite and I'm wondering,
Josh, can you pull up -- it wasn't this one, but the other one and blow up where East Ridge
goes to Cyanite, because right now -- yeah. So, right -- can you blow up that area? So,
right now there is a road blockage. You can't go -- there is nothing at East Ride right now,
but it's blocked and whatever -- I'm asking whatever you approve, if that roadblock can
remain, so that the land and the home construction traffic has to -- are forced to -- hate to
use that word -- exit out onto Lake Hazel. I'm -- it's just -- I'm asking, because the traffic
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is already so bad and the over 55 area -- probably two cars per household. So, it's still
going to have a lot of traffic. So, let me continue on. The -- with the --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, you will need to summarize.
Wageman: Okay. So -- well, just really quick. The water quality is still really bad. I have
orange water. We lost ten very large trees because of the -- the dirt quality in the area
and East Ridge is going to have a major problem with keeping their landscape alive. So,
I just let you know that, you know, it's thousands of dollars to us to replace so many trees,
because it required so much water. So, I just wanted to let you in on that and, finally,
Councilman Bird, we will miss you. Really, really respect you and I hope you have a
wonderful retirement.
Bird: Thank you very much. I appreciate that.
Coles: Rick Thurber signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Thurber: Good afternoon. I'm Rick Thurber. I reside at 10421 West Rockwood. That's
in west Boise. I'm here on behalf of Ray Patel, who is out of state and couldn't attend. A
longtime friend of mine. He -- his home borders this project on the east side. He's got a
two acre estate property there. Yeah. That's it. Five thousand square feet. Beautiful
home. And it faces west. So, he is really concerned about the view and how it's going to
be obstructed. It looked like the landscape plans are going to put some heavy vegetation
along his border there, but per your testimony maybe that's not possible. The transition
from large estate lots -- larger estate lots, I don't know how slight that can be as you are
going west, but he is very concerned that it's going to affect the value of property -- of his
property, understanding that you can't stop growth. But he wanted that point brought out,
so you would understand this concerns. Any questions?
De Weerd: No. Thank you very much.
Thurber: Thank you.
Coles: Melody Wheeler signed up against, saying maybe wishing to testify.
M.Wheeler: Melody Wheeler. 2402 East Taconic.
De Weerd: Thank you.
M.Wheeler: You're welcome. Mayor Tammy and Council, I am opposed to this new
subdivision plan. I'm sorry. I recently in the last few days met two of our newest
neighbors. They live right directly across from me and so I went over and visited with
them. Both said that they had looked for quite a while to find a larger piece of property
around Meridian and they were difficult, if not impossible to find. So, they were very glad
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when they were able to come to Blackrock and they purchased their home. Because they
would like some elbow room, as we wanted to have some elbow room, we moved here
from New Jersey and were able to buy our lot several years ago and appreciated the fact
that we had a little space around our house. I would like to see the southern rim continued
to fill the need for larger estate lots in Meridian. It's a beautiful area and I would like to
see that continue to be the larger estate lots. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Dawn Murphy signed up against, wishing to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Murphy: Hi. My name is Dawn Murphy. I live at 2495 East Cyanite Drive. I'm in
Blackrock. I'm the north most neighbor from the proposed application and development.
Have not had any -- been approached by Mr. Conger for any of my concerns. And while
Josh brings up that -- my PowerPoint, I don't think it's been stressed enough that on Lake
Hazel there is a dip there one to one and a half homes away from the entrance of this
subdivision that completely obscures oncoming traffic. So, at a minimum this entrance to
their subdivision should be moved away from that dip as far as possible, closest to Kathy
Baumgartner's property. The next concern that I have -- and let's see. There we go. So,
that's my home. That is -- this is Cyanite. It's what comes up and leaves -- this is the
whole beautiful property that we have been talking about. It a gem in Meridian. We
established that already in the prior conversations we have had with you. But my biggest
concern -- I'm not -- I am not a person that says don't develop behind me, that I want, you
know, a lot of roomy space. I take care of my 80 year old father in my home. We both
-- my husband and I both work from home. There isn't another home like the ones up at
Blackrock that can accommodate our living arrangements and our needs. I'm saving
about 6,000 dollars a month taking care of my father, instead of him being in assisted
living. I'm not a wealthy person, but this is what we need to do to take care of a family.
Okay? But I am very, very concerned about safety. So, this is the elevation as you come
around our property and I apologize, this is Google Earth's car taking this. So, these --
it's even a little higher, but there is a significant elevation up to our property and, then,
another one up to the East Ridge behind us. This is about a 15 foot entrance to our
driveway and it's at a little bit of a curve. I didn't develop this property, I didn't buy this
home -- or this lot and build it. This was a short sale. I was lucky enough to kind of take
this property that was an eye sore in the subdivision and make it better. So, as you see
this even looks -- this shows you the elevation behind us. So, probably from the front of
my house to the -- to the East Ridge Subdivision is about 40 feet in -- in elevation and my
lot is the one that has to negotiate that -- that complete elevation. So, when you're coming
around in front of our home -- this is a blind curve. This is where traffic is going to be
traveling 25 to 35 miles an hour around that corner. It's completely blind. I already --
almost get hit by the trash truck coming around that corner just to pick up the trash and
they already know that they need to stop there. My father is 80 I mentioned. He is a
driver. I worry about him trying to get off of our driveway. If you notice when we come
into our property we have to get into oncoming traffic to come into our driveway. That's
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the only way we can get in there and that's not even the safest way to park. The best
way to park is to back in, so that the doors don't slam little kids fingers and our legs and
so -- and we also need to back any kind of trailers or whatever you want into our driveway
in order to -- we have a small camper. So, what I'm asking is that we don't even open
this road. Okay? I would prefer that we hit the stub that goes down to Sky Mesa like was
proposed. Those are collector streets. These are not collector streets at all. And this is
a steep curve. So, on -- in the wintertime what you can't see here is that there is a home
at the bottom of that -- in that -- near that subdivision that has a driveway where there is
a basketball court, the kids are always out there playing. That's the community that we
are trying to build. R-15, the -- the senior -- over 55, it doesn't even have sidewalks. Are
we really developing something that doesn't have sidewalks? And a piece of land for the
community there -- for the estate community -- well, those parks are meant for community
gathering. Are you really going to have parents out there meeting other parents or are
we all going to -- all those residents just go play in their own yard? So, we need those
amenities. I really request that we connect to Sky Mesa and we move the entrance of
this subdivision as far away from that dip in the road as possible, so that we have proper
traffic flow through that really gem of a property and I think if it was reworked with the R-
4 that you requested, with larger lots that matched the whole neighborhood -- we are
talking about the ten acres, you know, both sides and the Blackrock half acre to one acre,
you would get a sense of cohesion across that beautiful property and that's what I would
like respectfully for you to consider tonight. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Joe Baldwin signed up against, not wishing to testify. David Koga signed up as
neutral, wishing to testify.
Koga: Madam Mayor, City Council Members, my name is David Koga. 2450 Cyanite
Drive. I will try to make this quick. It's being redundant on some things. I have some
specific items, three things, and, then, more of a general closing. Number one, I really
appreciated when Jim Conger turned in the application he put together a letter and on the
letter there is three factors in -- three items in there that -- one says that phase one will
include the connection to Lake Hazel as required by City Council. That was a comment
that was made at City Council a long time ago and, secondly, asked for construction
access -- will be from -- will be from Lake Hazel Road -- to have construction there. That
-- I feel it's important enough that that item should be a site specific or a PA -- a DA,
development agreement, one of those other, so we have those items in there. The
second item has to do with Sky Mesa. It's all been talked -- more than once. So, I think
that's very critical that we do extend the east -- what's called the East Mores Trail Drive,
bring it directly from southeast subdivision north up to Sky -- Sky Mesa. I don't know if
you can -- I think everybody has seen that. But I think it would be very, very helpful to --
to extend that and help once again spread out the traffic throughout different locations.
In closing on this, though, I think it should be on the record that I am one of the few people
that did sit down with Mr. Conger on some of the changes on the design and sat with
Kathy also. I respect Kathy a lot on her decision on there. She -- it was a tough decision
for her, but I think it was good for her. I think at the same time we had talked a little bit
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about give and take. Kathy mentioned that and Mr. Conger mentioned that and I think
there is one item we could look at this as a -- as a little give and take originally when
Conger turned in his application there was 119 lots. The next one has 139 lots. Quite a
bit more lots, based on the over 55 Village area. One good compromise, we asked Mr.
Conger to have less than 139 lots, maybe cut back nine of those lots and what we would
do on those other lots is around the perimeter, try to -- there is three items in there.
Number one, some of the -- I don't know if you can see this, but on the northwest area try
to make a one-one ratio on the lots with -- with the Blackrock neighbors that live in there.
So, there would be more like two lots, instead of three lots, on the northwest corner. Then
on the northeast corner we would extend that road like we said, that might affect one of
the lots also, but we would extend the road down to the west to Sky Mesa. And in closing
really quick, the site is a great site. I mean I'm sure you guys have been on the site, but
we don't want to just come down and just cut it off and make this like a subdivision on the
flat 40 acre sites, there is some undulation and that's what Mr. Conger did on his first
design, he tried to work around existing. So, it would be nice that we could try to use the
existing terrain, the slopes in there. We can still have some nice lots in there. That's what
you might -- that's what you might lose is a few also, so --
De Weerd: Mr. Koga, I guess since you were part of the discussion that led to some
concessions, did you also talk about what the designation was in the Comprehensive
Plan and what he could possibly be requesting?
Koga: Yeah. We talked -- we talked about it. I mean I think there is a time factor on that
that maybe was not considered any further. I mean it was discussed, but nothing that --
I don't remember really talking in depth on that item.
De Weerd: Because what the Comprehensive Plan contemplates is a higher density than
a total of the R-4, which in total the number of lots fall below the R-4. So, was that part
of your discussion and -- no.
Koga: Not when I was there.
De Weerd: Okay. I assumed because you -- this is part of your world, that would have
been maybe some of the discussions that you had.
Koga: Yeah. No. We might have discussed it a little bit, not -- it was discussed a lot
more about design, layout, things like that.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Thank you.
Coles: Lori Koga signed up against, saying maybe wanting to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
L.Koga: I'm Lori Koga. I live at 2450 East Cyanite Drive, Meridian, Idaho.
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De Weerd: Thank you.
L.Koga: Madam Mayor and Council Members, I just want to say for the record that I have
concerns about the traffic safety what all my other neighborhood friends have already got
up and talked about and so traffic safety is a big, huge issue. It's already a problem now.
Then I also have concerns about the water issues. I am 57 years old. I'm still working. I
go in and out of the subdivision. I do all kinds of things. We live on -- I will retire soon,
but, you know, as I retire my income is going to be less or will be level and so I have
concerns about people who might be moving into that neighborhood, how are they going
afford it? We used to live on a half acre lot that was on city water and our summer bills
were horrendous. Anyway. And, then, also just -- I agree with the density and transition
that they just brought up and I just want to say that for the record, so -- that's it. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Amy Anderson signed up against, not wishing to testify. And Bonnie Carter signed
up against, not wishing to testify. And with that, Madam Mayor, that's all the sign-ups.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone who did not sign up that would like to provide
testimony? Or that did sign up, but changed their mind? Yes, sir. Good evening.
B.Shelton: Madam Mayor, my name is Ben Shelton and I'm at 2498 East Cyanite Drive
and I just wanted to respond to the question about the surveys. We talked about that a
couple weeks ago, just before Thanksgiving we came up -- is when I first heard about the
-- maybe there was a change where it was a new presentation, maybe it was, oh, this is
just a change from the other one, so it's a final come back and I told them I didn't think
we really needed it, because it -- it applied. Now -- now I find out this is a new application
and maybe all those surveys don't apply, but I assure you that we didn't do that without
thinking about -- we thought it would not matter and if it would have mattered I feel bad
that I was the guy that said we don't really need to do that, because those people still I'm
sure feel the same way that the other people have here. There is no reason that -- I have
heard contractor after contractor say people don't want big yards anymore, they don't
want -- they do. There are a lot of people who would like a nice yard and space and enjoy
that kind of thing and if they can afford that kind of thing, then, Meridian should apply that
for them and not 50 years from now look like Los Angeles with their little 20 lane roads
going through places, where we can spread people out now, rather than condense them
and, then, have those problems. I try to go to work to Micron from where I'm at and I can't
get down Eagle. This last week -- and we -- prior to Thanksgiving and, then, after
Thanksgiving again Eagle Road is backed up all the way to Amity. I went down to
Cloverdale, backed up all the way to Amity. I couldn't even make it four cars through the
turn this morning. It stopped, because it was already backed up all the way to Amity. The
roads are already packed and we haven't even begun to fill this place up. There is a lot
of beautiful land out there that's -- that's flat. Let's use the rim for what it should be is
beautiful homes that can take advantage of that and use the rest of this land, which is
great land, for the other subdivisions. Thank you for your time.
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De Weerd: Thank you. Sir.
Van Akron: My name is Gary Van Akron. I live at 3967 East Raja Drive. Nowhere near
this. But I wanted to bring something up that the gentleman just mentioned and just
piggyback on something here. You know, I used to live in east Boise and I met the
gentleman whose wife passed away in the fire from the rim and I just want to point out on
the diagram up here that this 55 plus development is very close proximity. These are in
quad structure. I'm sure the wind blows out there and I'm sure that if one of these houses
catches on fire, all four of those houses are going to catch on fire and I just want to point
that out. If that's been taken into consideration and just to think about that and this high
density with older people who have a hard time to get around, you know, they are really
at risk.
De Weerd: I'm sorry, I am 55 and older and I don't have a hard time getting around. So,
please, don't use that argument. I am feeling really, really old right now.
Bird: You're going to be the oldest elected official come January. The second oldest.
Van Akron: Well, but 55 is the cutoff. Fifty-five is the minimum -- you know, the minimum
age. It -- it goes up from there and so I just want to say, hey, you know, if you wake up
in the middle of the night and your house is on fire or your neighbor's house is on fire, you
know, there can be some pretty serious consequences and so this kind of density -- you
know, they probably need to lower the density in this. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: To be fair, I'm 29 and I have a hard time getting out.
De Weerd: Yes, sir. Good evening.
Kasurbin: My name is Serge Kasurbin. I said neutral, but I -- as I was listening I felt
compelled to say my --
De Weerd: Do you want to pull the microphone --
Kasurbin: I felt compelled to say something, because we just recently moved to Meridian
and it's a beautiful city and I'm honored to be here actually to speak with you -- before
you guys and the fact that it's a high density development causes tremendous traffic
issues and we came from Portland, Oregon, where they allowed such densities and it
became too much of a nightmare to drive over the years. So, I'm siding with the people
saying that let's keep that side -- that south Meridian beautiful, spread out, keep -- you
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know, give the opportunity for people to buy acre lots, because there is a need for it.
That's all I want to say.
De Weerd: Thank you, sir. Any further testimony? Did I see another hand out there?
Okay. If there is no further testimony -- yes. Caleb.
Hood: So, Madam Mayor, I just wanted to one circle back. Councilman Borton had some
-- some questions as to -- a little bit of information particularly on where the roads currently
stand in ACHD's programming. I will note you do have a report from ACHD in your packet
on page two. It was -- it was actually composed right before ACHD adopted their current
integrated five year work plan. If you want to read that again, we have the ACHD staff
report. Josh has a -- a map -- a picture is worth a thousand words and I think this exhibit
kind of shows if you look at the legend on the right-hand side you can see where those
improvements -- particularly on Lake Hazel and some of the intersections -- the
intersections are a little bit more difficult to make out, but the intersection of Cloverdale
and Lake Hazel is also in their -- their programming for their integrated five year work plan
in preliminary development, which means it's -- it's more than the five years out. You see
the list of years through 2022, it's one of the next corridors to move up in the programming
and it could even accelerate into 2021 or 2022, but right now it's in the out years of the
integrated five year work plan. I do want to just note for everybody in attendance, we do
have a transportation commission in Meridian and I have made a note of -- enough people
have made note of the speed on Lake Hazel in particular, so I'm going to bring that to our
transportation commission, have them discuss it with ACHD present, see what ACHD
traffic can maybe do and evaluate the speed limit to see if 50 is still appropriate or not.
I'm not making any guarantees that any changes will be made, but just ask them to look
at that and kick that around and, Madam Mayor, if it's okay while I have the microphone,
I will also just note that on January 3rd, between the hours of 6:00 and 7:00 p.m. in
Conference Room A and B, we are going to be discussing potential policy changes to the
city's Comprehensive Plan related to future development in what we are calling the south
rim area. So, I just want to extend that invite to folks. You will be hopefully seeing more
about that through electronic invites and post cards and that type of a thing, but while we
have got a captive audience I just wanted to also put that out there, that, again, January
3rd, 6:00 p.m. here, we will talk about potential policies regarding future development
policies in this general vicinity, so --
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb. I'm going to call a ten minute recess before Mr. Conger
comes up.
(Recess: 9:19 p.m. to 9:31 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and reconvene or -- and turn this over to Mr. Conger
for his summary remarks.
Conger: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Jim Conger one last time. Just wanted
to circle back around. I know it was hit several times and discussed of the Comprehensive
Plan. I heard lots of comments I think from the Council side -- I think everybody gets it, I
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just -- reiterating more for the neighbors. This is the city's Comprehensive Plan that's
directing the types of products and, more importantly, the densities and the growth that
the city has laid out for the future planning, which is now. I think running quickly through
the items I heard that I need to address to you or for the neighbors, we heard a lot -- a lot
of questions about traffic and the entrance and construction traffic. This Exhibit A does
address our phase one, which is the estate lots, not only as a construction entrance to
Lake Hazel, but it's actually the permanent entrance to Lake Hazel. So, that is definitely
addressed in Exhibit A that would be a part of the development agreement. There is no
way not to have that -- that entrance. As far as traffic -- excuse me, I don't know if it was
my talking or everybody's talking. I have lost my voice somehow. But, then, you know,
as far as traffic goes, we are kind of a little confused, you know, on the neighbors that are
still complaining about traffic and I think that's why we are seeing a little bit less of the
original petitioners that when this went through and on our -- all of our meetings and
coalition meetings -- and there was a representative from Blackrock neighborhood
association on that coalition, Mr. Koga. The -- the reason we think you're not seeing as
much as that is this project, again, produces 30 percent less traffic. That is not Jim
Conger numbers, that is the traffic impact study that we had to redo with this new project
and that is submitted to the highway district and as part of the packet as well. So, the
traffic going back and coming back with an R-4 we are going to have the same people
and the same stance complaining about the same thing, because this produces less traffic
than what another typical could be in its place. Going with the traffic, the other reason we
purposefully designed The Village entrance at Lake Hazel, that could have gone in a
numerous of locations. That was done on purpose to get that Village traffic at Lake Hazel
-- literally at Lake Hazel. As far as moving onto Taconic, I created this exhibit that
somehow got up during everybody's speaking points, but the distances of yellow-blue are
the exact same distances. The speed limits are 25 in the blue. If you don't do 25,
evidently, you get a speeding ticket we all heard. The yellows are the 50. You know, this
is everybody assuming every bit of traffic is going to Eagle Road. Actually, specifically
with construction traffic, the odds of at least half of the traffic going to the Meridian-Kuna
Highway is probably pretty -- pretty large. We don't see -- we have had lots of
developments get approved where the odds for cut-through traffic were very significantly
high. This isn't one of those projects where we can actually look you in the eye and say,
boy, I think the majority of the traffic is following the yellow, because that's just the
common sense to go and whatever else will go out to the Meridian-Kuna Highway and,
then, couple that with our traffic impact study that is part of the record. Taconic at our full
build out will be at 30 percent capacity. So, these -- these traffic jams on Taconic and
such that we are hearing -- and I don't -- don't know that we have those yet. I get it that
they are at Eagle Road, which is even more reason that -- that most people will go to
Lake Hazel. Lake Hazel I think -- and you heard the people from Micron. Lake Hazel, as
Caleb indicated, as it starts to be developed is most likely going to be improvements from
the east -- from the Boise direction into Meridian and this is going to be -- you could argue
it with Chinden someday as far as the handiness of the east-west connection of Lake
Hazel is going to be amazing from Meridian to Boise, to the far interchange of the Micron
area. That's going to be -- I don't think it will be negative, but I think that will be a pretty
amazing corridor, but it's going to be a busy corridor. Leaving -- leaving traffic, I think,
you know, touching quickly on water rights, we don't have water rights, we are working
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hard to -- to get some. I keep, again, being conflicted with all the public testimony of
larger lots, but they can't water the larger lots. I think the -- the balance of our water rights
with the amount of estate lots -- we are still providing 41 spectacular estate lots in this
project. I think that balance and the variety of product with The Village is kind of part and
parcel also derivative of our lack of water rights. The water needs inside The Village are
extremely small compared to our one acre lots that we do have and, then, our average of
half acre lots. Finally, closing, I guess we are taking a methodical decision with this land
plan and particularly the -- the unique housing product to market in this particular Meridian
area. A safe and easy route would be the two story typical R-4 lots, smack them out, sell
off lots to 17 different builders or one big large builder. We want to develop projects that
are special. I do a lot -- a majority or all of my projects with Blackrock, we work hard to
make them special. Not everyone can or is willing to do that. I have a builder in tow,
which makes that ability for me a little bit easier. I know the product before I hit the ground
and we hope you appreciate our efforts to carve out a few special places in Meridian that
we can still -- still leave something that's special. We are excited to move this project
forward tonight and look forward to approval based off the staff report and the
recommended conditions that were sent forth by Planning and Zone Commission. Thank
you very much.
De Weerd: Council, questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jim, I got a -- I can't get my arms around the over 55 part of this. You -- for us older
people that don't have the resources --
De Weerd: Mr. Bird and I.
Bird: -- don't have the reflexes that we used to have and stuff, turning out on Lake Hazel
into the traffic, I agree with you, I think most people will head down the Meridian Road,
so that don't -- but I don't know if that's close enough to your shopping areas and stuff for
the older people. I mean maybe for the 55 up to 70 years, so -- but as you get -- you
know, as you get -- you're right, we don't travel -- we don't go around as much as we have
to -- as we used to, but at -- and in the same token we don't want to get -- and have to
drive ten miles to do our shopping or -- and at that age or usually spending quite a bit of
time at doctors' offices and stuff, so -- I just -- I just can't figure out -- and another thing,
why -- I know you told somebody that R-4 wouldn't pencil out. I don't know. I just -- I
have got a funny feeling about this development. I -- I don't know how I'm going to vote.
Conger: Madam Mayor, is that a question?
De Weerd: So, his question I think is about the 55 and older community and how you
age restrict it.
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Conger: Well, that's fair.
De Weerd: Right?
Bird: Yeah. I just -- is that the right location. That's -- I mean you're a long way -- you're
feeding onto some very heavily traffic two and three lane roads for older people and there
is a long ways away -- actually, probably the little shopping center in there by Kuna High
School by the dairy over there, is the closest little shopping center there is to this, unless
you go down Eagle Road and get into that.
Conger: Well, Madam Mayor, Council Member Bird, I will let the Mayor tell me when to
stop talking, because I have got a list a mile long of why this is a spectacular location and
we have done a tremendous amount of research on it.
Bird: That's what I meant.
Conger: We have done market analysis for this segment of the market, for this particular
location, and, again, they are not speculative, this is myself with Blackrock homes, this
will not be our first one of this product. So, we do know what our clientele likes and we
do know what they have to be near. So, I couldn't agree more. Again, this isn't an
assisted living facility, this is a vibrant age. In six years I'm in this facility and I'm pretty
sure I'm going to make it out with the fire alarm. But -- but I think we have already been
through the Fire Department and everything, so that -- that step was covered. But I think
the -- the serious point of this is we are four miles -- we aren't any bit more than that to
the actual interstate, which is, basically, the hospital. You have WinCo coming in at that
location, but back up further, we have Albertson's coming at Amity. We are one mile to
Albertson's. We can see the brand new YMCA that I know tons of people in his room
worked so hard to get. Our people are going to be there. We can literally see it. It's at
the end of the yellow line right here. We have a golf course less than a half a mile away.
I don't think everybody quite understands how vibrant of an area this is and this is why
you're starting -- once the sewer and water became available, why everybody wants to
live here. Of course Blackrock, which started out as an Ada county subdivision, then, got
brought into the city, they had it before everybody else, now a few of the larger parcels
didn't like it when they were approved, now they are not liking it quite as much when the
rest of the city catches up with it. But this area is exploding. It's going to have tons of --
you know, as far as services, it's going to have a tremendous amount of services. Now,
hospitals is -- as we get to the older -- the other age of the 55 and older, is an important
factor for our location of these sites as well and certainly within four miles is definitely
within our realm. It is a hop, skip and a jump. So, you know, all due respect, that Kuna
market is a long ways away and if -- if you went and drove it you're going to need a half
a tank of gas. So, we -- we definitely have a lot around us and very specifically where --
you know, by the time -- we are still another two years away before we even have a
homeowner in there in this part of the, you know, development for sure.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: If we are talking about the over 55 Village, I did have a question. I think it's
important to note, I would move into a 55 and older community tomorrow if my wife would
let me and if I was older. I think that they are great. The idea of having my yard
maintained and quiet neighbors and fresh baked cookies all the time -- to me that seems
very, very appealing. But I think that many of the neighbors brought up some concern
about how that age restriction piece is going to be implemented and when I turn 55 can
my, then, 50 -- my wife is going to kill me -- 53 year old wife at the time move in with me?
I mean talk to me about that process and what's going to be implemented to keep the 55
year old from having their seventeen year old child live in the neighborhood and it sounds
to me like that's causing some consternation with the neighbors and I'm just curious what
your plans are to mitigate that.
Conger: Sure. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, as Mr. Nary indicated, we did
indicate that we are working with our legal team and we have already done it with other
facilities of creating the documents that are required. They, then, as Mr. Nary indicated,
get implemented into the CC&Rs, as well as other contractual documents that get
executed and things of that nature when you become a buyer. You can have a spouse
that's not 55. You cannot have children under 18. So, there is rules that come with that.
But, yes, both spouses do not have to be 55. One of the two have to be 55. That is a
state of Idaho law that has been tried and tested and is not in limbo of being a -- can you
do it or can you not do it. It is very much set in stone. It's a good question.
De Weerd: I have three 55 and older in our region. I'm not in one of them. Just want to
say. And I think the residents are extremely happy with their gated community and --
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I have additional questions. I don't want to --
De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: -- monopolize everyone's time. Jim, there was some testimony brought up and
I recall our conversations during the Sky Mesa discussion about that stub street, that kind
of quasi cul-de-sac to the north. Can you talk us through why -- what the decision was to
not punch that through and have that connect to your development? It seems like a
missed opportunity to me.
Conger: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener -- Josh, can you go back to
mine that was right there. Sorry. I guess either one will function. Sorry. Thank you. So
-- so, the -- as far as the connectivity goes, that was never -- I mean physically able to
connect. We have a 30 to 35 foot vertical difference in grade between our property and
that lower property. In some of the original plans we had seven lots down on that lower
bench that we don't have any longer. So, when Sky Mesa came in you guys required
them to stub, it's not going to be connectivity to above, that was just to allow access for
our original seven lots that were down in the bottom. So, through our approval process
at the highway district and, then, through all our planning through the City of Meridian,
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this -- physically the two can't connect. The same reason you don't see -- if you look into
Blackrock, why that cul-de-sac isn't a stub off the road -- besides, they would have lost a
lot if you do it -- that that grade and their slope is too great of a difference for that -- that
slope area to get down to the bottom. So, from a connectivity standpoint those two cannot
connect. The same reason we also don't have a stub to the east boundary. You -- in
typical flat land developments you will never see where we don't have a stub to the -- in
this particular case on the right side of the east boundary. It's not physically possible and
that's the only reason you don't have them. They have stubs from the bottom into that
east property. We can't give a stub. We went all the way through staff -- of your staff and
all the way through the highway district approval, it's just -- everybody has connectivity
requirements. We can't physically make it with the grades.
De Weerd: Just to -- to find out, is there -- who in the audience is here for 9-B? If you
will raise your hand. That would be for Movado Greens Subdivision. I know it's getting
late. We can invite you to stay and we will just continue this or I can suggest to Council
that this be continued until next week. So, continued to next week. I know you have been
here the whole time, I just want to -- to make sure you're okay with that. Okay. Council,
are you good with that suggestion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I'm curious with the applicant, who paid for it, has to say.
De Weerd: Well, we can continue it until then. I don't -- it's late. When we get rummy
we are very unpredictable.
Conger: I would not argue with the Mayor. I would just maybe state that since we didn't
have any of these neighbors at our P&Z hearing, that I am allowed to at least get one
contact name to go meet with these folks. I think they have bad information that they
think this apartment is in the back end of our project by their --
De Weerd: Well, I don't want to have any testimony about it right now.
Conger: No. No. No. I'm just wondering if --
De Weerd: But I am sure if you have some folks with you -- okay. Yes. I'm sure someone
will talk with you about it.
Conger: Yeah. That's perfect.
De Weerd: Am I speaking on your behalf? So, that gentleman over there will talk to you
about it. Right? Mr. Clerk certainly will. Well, I mean to the Action Items. There may be
a few things before that. Okay. We will do what we can. Okay. So, I apologize for the
interruption, but I just wanted to make sure -- I don't know how much longer this
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conversation will go on, but we will go ahead -- I will open the public hearing. I will ask
for staff to present it next week. Is the applicant good with that?
Conger: Yes, I am.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I apologize for the interruption. Mr. Cavener, I know you
had a few more questions.
Cavener: A couple more, Madam Mayor, if I may. Kim, your testimony in this I guess
surprised me that there is not sidewalks in that private village drive. Is that accurate?
And tell me why.
Conger: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, yeah, there are no sidewalks
inside The Village product. It's similar to our Movado that we had approved that we are
currently building and underway. That is such an intimate little narrow feeling and all that
street presence -- everybody is walking in the edge of streets and just in the very little
traffic and any of the traffic is slow. You start widening it out and getting big wide lanes
and the next thing you know everybody travels fast. But in all our projects, which this will
be, basically, the third one we have been involved with and -- well, actually, almost fourth,
but third one for sure, in all our research it is just not necessary and it just ends up
widening everything out.
Cavener: Okay. A couple more, Madam Mayor, if I may.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Jim, you started tonight -- I thought you did a great job about talking about
public engagement. That's something to me it's really important. And, then, we heard
tonight time and time again members of the Blackrock Subdivision feel like that they
weren't engaged. I can understand you can't reach everybody, but we heard a lot of the
people tonight that were frustrated about the lack of engagement and I'm hoping that you
would have an opportunity to provide any clarification as to why they think that way or
share with us the process that you went through to engage the people of that
neighborhood.
Conger: Yes. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, so the original process was a
-- a public meeting -- a noticed public meeting and at that point you have heard a lot of
discussions -- we don't know if this is a new application, old application. It was extremely
clear at that point this is a new application and we were doing a noticed public meeting
for that and, then, once it was determined that we weren't going to start meeting with large
groups of neighborhoods, it was given to the direction of the Meridian -- the Southwest
Meridian Planning Coalition. So, that had a Blackrock individual on it. Then we had an
individual with a large acreage. We had -- we had a total of four people on that board. At
that point Mr. Stroo was -- Jim Stroo was the Blackrock president. I'm not sure if he is
today. Still is? Yeah. Still is the president. We had -- I had phone conversations with
Mr. Stroo. We were meeting with the coalition. They didn't -- what I guess I'm saying
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they didn't want -- have a desire for any more meetings with them in particular, because
they wanted to have their votes and everything on whether to do the first plan, the second
plan, or no plan and they kept saying that they are doing the no plan. So, I think those
conversations -- you heard from Mr. Stroo's wife that I hadn't communicated with her. I
guess she actually is the ownership of the house, but I have been talking with him. So,
several of those neighbors we had talked with, but we might not be talking to the right part
of the neighbor I guess. But the -- the direct response from everybody was to meet with
the coalition and I have never once said that I had the Blackrock support of this plan. So,
that I don't believe I said that at the start of this conversation and I heard that. No, we did
not have unanimous of anybody. But we had a fair amount -- less than four as far as
petitions against for sure.
Cavener: I agree with you on that. Good for me for now, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Other questions from Council?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Jim, there was a comment about the Grimmett Lateral and what can and can't
be going to there and how it can and can't be utilized and --
Conger: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton -- no. Fair question. So, that
Grimmett Lateral is a small part of this project. If you look at what's on my screen, it would
be along that right boundary or east boundary only up to that arrow point -- of that point.
So, the Grimmett Lateral is controlled by the New York, but it is managed by Project Board
of Control, because it's federal. So, we have already produced the drawings for relocation
-- relocating that Grimmett Lateral all over. We, in fact -- in fact, today was our -- I almost
call it our final meeting with Project Board of Control, who has approved the plans and,
then, it will be several months or longer with Lupe Martinez, which is with the -- you know,
the bureau. So, as far as plantings, that is a 40 foot easement in that particular spot. The
neighbor is absolutely accurate, that is grass. You aren't able to put trees in -- in that
easement. They will come chop those down. But as far as the access road, we actually
have to provide an access route on that and -- and all of that is in -- in the requirement
of Project Board of Control. So, there is no shortcutting that system. But no. Absolutely.
Grasses in that particular stretch, along with a 16 foot wide gravel road. So, you have 40
foot minus 16 and that's the balance.
De Weerd: And how about the fencing?
Conger: The fencing -- yeah. We have the ability to fence along our property boundary.
Now, the fence along the frontage where we come across, we have done numerous with
them and I believe in this one our fence just has to have the proper gates that meet their
requirements. It cannot be a fence, it would have to be a gate- type environment. So,
that is in our -- because we care, as much as I know you, Mayor, very much care what
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does our buffer look like that's required on -- our landscape buffer on Lake Hazel and --
and this easement comes across -- across that buffer. So, we will have a stretch that
won't have trees, it will have the gates, it will have the fence across it and a gate format
and it will have plenty of shrubs on each side of it and it will look seamless.
De Weerd: And have you worked with Mr. Cantrell about keeping his cows in?
Conger: I have --
De Weerd: Or horses or livestock.
Conger: Livestock. In general. Yeah. I have not worked with him. We understood --
you know, in the original meetings and the original public hearing, we had a pedestrian
pathway down there along that boundary line and that has since been removed. So, I
don't know -- we certainly are planning on doing a wrought iron fence, which typically
those have four inch spacing in them -- no more than four. That we can guarantee. All
our fencing has the four inch spindles. Typically speaking if they start getting any bigger
you will hurt livestock or kids or anything else that try to go through it. So, we believe the
wrought iron fence would be better than any sort of a six foot solid -- because typically we
would do vinyl, because it’s a lifetime product and whether cows eat vinyl I'm not -- I'm
not entirely certain. But I know they won't eat wrought iron.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton, did you have more questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor, I do. I have got two I guess I will put into one and give you a shot
at trying to help resolve one of the -- or a couple of the bigger issues and you have -- I
think you have made really great strides in trying to address a lot of the issues when you
go back and read the minutes and what was discussed and concerns raised at the
meeting, you really I think have gone a long way, which is I think typical for the type of
work that you do in Meridian. There are two particular items that I would like your
comment on and that are, I guess, unresolved somewhat. One is -- is the water issue
that we have all talked about and to gain some comfort, understanding that, you know,
the city's policy always is for using the irrigation water and there is opportunities to waive
that requirement and use city water, but it's -- we all agree that's not what anyone wants
to do whenever possible. So, the fact that there is not a water right available now begs
the question of is it really the appropriate time. Every now and then we come across a
development that it might make sense, but it might not be the right time for it to be
approved and is the absence of water, in light of the common understanding of why we
-- we require utilization of irrigation water, is that indicative of a project that it's not the
right time for? And that's part one, the irrigation water. And part two is -- and Mr. Hood
mentioned it, some of the work we are doing with the Comprehensive Plan and some of
the open house work in the southern rim area starting in January and in light of what we
are doing to review this area and the city as a whole, the Comprehensive Plan, is that
also -- those two issues kind of combine to say this project just might not be the right time
for it at this location. So, give you a chance to respond to that.
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Conger: You bet. Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, starting off with the -- the
compliment -- you know, that compliment also goes to city staff. What we did as far as
-- boiled down you talked about how we hit a lot of the points from the first hearing is our
first meetings with the coalition that were held in Meridian was -- was literally going
through the minutes and hitting all the items, so we could -- we could put those on one
side of the table in a big pile before we even started going through planning and fine
tuning. So, a lot of -- a lot of that is, yes, we brought that to the table, but the city -- you
know, your staff brought that to the table and the coalition was extremely helpful in, okay,
identifying here is the six items from City Council that we need to, you know, definitely
incorporate in and we heard that loud and clear. So, that's one that you -- you could pull
that out, because there is a lot of effort that went into that from a lot of parties. Now, as
far as the -- the right time, I mean there are a handful of projects -- or a handful of land
parcels that are just never going to have water rights. So, we have -- in the process of
acquiring eight acres, which is more than our -- well, it's about our common area,
especially when you count the -- The Village area. So, that is a giant deal. Typically
speaking HOAs have a bigger burden of watering their common areas than -- than
individuals do with watering their houses, because they can actually control what they
plant, how they plant it. Just because you lose -- use less water doesn't mean you have
less landscaping and an uglier house. It means you have less turf. But it doesn't mean
you have a less thought out and less planned out landscaping atmosphere. Now, as far
as the right timing, I mean we -- that -- that was one of the items on the table that came
from the last -- and actually came from you in the last, you know, public hearing and --
and we have gone through the -- you know, the city is spending money and acquired an
80 acre park that we are right across the street from. So, if we aren't at the right time for
this project and you're starting construction next year right across the street, then, we are
certainly not connecting the two dots together. The city just ran the water main just past
this property all the way up to Lake Hazel -- to Locust Grove I mean. The sewer now is
getting to this property. If I were to really be blazon and put up all the applications in this
area, I have an exhibit if anybody wants to see it, it's in red, and the place is a giant red
glow. This area is -- I mean as far as timing goes, it is time to develop. Now, to hold a
property for water rights I think that might be the question. You know, we -- your neighbor
is correct, the New York isn't even the number one water purveyor here. Nampa-Meridian
and -- Nampa-Meridian -- it doesn't matter, but I'm going to get it right. And the Boise-
Kuna both rejected us. So, we have rejections in writing. So, we have submitted to New
York, who not only has put us into the queue, but ours is an application for water rights,
but it's also an application to annex. So, it's two applications. Now, both of them are
going to get unprocessed, because they have no water right to give. But this property --
there is a high likely to my eight acres that I have gone around a whole different avenue
to get in the sub surface world -- is all this property is ever going to get. I mean it gave
up its water rights two owners ago. There is a high likelihood it's never going to get him
back past the eight acres that I think I'm going to get. Now, with that being said, again,
we have had three or four in the last ten years that we have done that had waivers. Maybe
one in the city and two in Boise. That is what that provision is for. That provision is --
isn't that this property is ahead of time, it's this property just had some lack of
management by previous landowners and -- and it's never going to change. I mean it's
not going to probably change past the eight acres. So, as far as the function of time, I
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think with having the park, expending money to build, having the water lines put in front
of it this actual year -- actually last month and the sewer that's readily available here in
the next several months, it doesn't -- we had a hard time as the developer -- obviously,
our land -- old landowner didn't understand it and I think even with that as far as timing
goes, this is a pretty vibrant area and we don't understand how -- how the timing isn't --
isn't -- isn't right for this. It certainly comes full circle back to the Comprehensive Plan.
Lake Hazel is going to start building out. Eighty acre regional park. YMCA. I mean there
is just a million things right here that make this the right place to be developing at this
right time.
Borton: One follow up, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: So, Jim, if there is -- if there is efforts to obtain water rights, which it might take
two to four years to get, is there something within the DA or your proposal that triggers
some conversion if you -- if this goes forward and its seven years down the road and you
acquire the rights that you wish you had now, does the use of the city water cease at
some point? Is it converted or what's contemplated there?
Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, you know that's awful easy and fun for
me just to say, yeah, you bet. I think logistically seven years down the road, if I'm not an
owner of anything in there --
Borton: Right.
Conger: -- I have had the HOA, I have turned it over, I don't even have a voting right on
the board, I think logistically and legally if -- if we were talking seven to ten years from
now, I certainly would be looking at you and lying saying, yeah, that wouldn't be an issue.
I don't think we would have control to do that.
Borton: Well -- and, Madam Mayor, I guess the DA is the question of whether that's ever
been done or am I speaking of a concept that doesn't exist?
Nary: I guess, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it hasn't been done. I don't recall
anything like that and part of it is, as you have heard me say before, is the -- the triggering
effect. Who is going to track that? How are we going to trigger it? How are we going to,
then, require it in the DA. They would have to, then, commit to building infrastructure into
the ground now or commit to funding it in the future, which, again, are problematic and
it's certainly not something we couldn't do, it's just not something we have. So, I just --
that's my only concern is triggering it, activating it, getting the HOA on board five, eight,
ten years from now, if that's really how far along it is. Certainly something we can consider
if that's the Council's directions.
De Weerd: And I don't think it -- it's difficult reversing that anyway. I lived in Glenfield
Manor and we had an irrigation ditch running behind us and we couldn't tap into it. We
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were on city water and the irrigation districts would not reverse that. So, I don't know,
even if you wanted to, if you could unring that bell, which is probably -- it wasn't available
at the time and -- Kyle, what is the -- the process of getting city water is those two refusals
of the irrigation districts that could not serve this piece of property, is that what we require
before we offer the city water aspect?
Radek: Madam Mayor, I -- I think Bruce Freckleton has got it in his -- his staff comments
for the subdivision, saying that -- will need to provide written evidence of determination to
demonstrate inadequacy of all sources of water for irrigation to the city engineer before a
waiver to be granted. So, that's something that they will present to Warren. I will say on
the topic of conversion from city water to -- back to irrigation, there are subdivisions that
could do it and want to do it, the biggest problem they run into is the infrastructure,
because they would have to build the whole distribution system. So, if there is not a
distribution system built from the beginning, it would never happen. But if we considered
putting the irrigation distribution system in, which would be a little different -- you know,
they would have a billing issue, which wouldn't be insurmountable. But, then, the -- the
infrastructure would be in and, then, if there were ever surface water available, then, it's
just a matter of putting in the pump station and then -- then they have got it. But if you
don't have that, then, you will never put an LID together to replace city water with surface
water, because it's too expensive.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Kyle, if -- if we don't -- if the water for the irrigation isn't ran through the meter, if we
had -- if -- and it would have to be the developer to put in the system using city water and
with the one meter, homeowner -- and you put it under the homeowner associations, we
have got a lot of subs out there that homeowner associations that went broke or are
nonexistent, how are we going to collect -- I think in the defense of the city, if you're going
to let them irrigate with city water, it has to go through, just like mine does or Old Town, it
goes through our meter, we have our own back flow and we pay in the summertime a
good amount of money. But that's the only way you're going to be able to control it and
collect it. I don't depend on homeowners associations that much, because it's just a group
of people looking out for themselves.
Conger: Madam Mayor, if I may just finalize that conversation possibly is the
infrastructure is going to be all in in the common areas and of the common areas of The
Village. It would simply be the -- the estate lots that are going to be individually metered
and paying in their own water bills. So, there -- you know, we have already sat down with
several of our custom builders that would be in the estate lots -- and, trust me, you don't
want the phone call. They get the first phone call. I get the second phone call typically
and, typically, hopefully, you get the third phone call and we would like you not to get one
at all. So, we have enough documentation in place, we have enough people with these -
- you know, we -- our goal is to sell to two or three custom builders, who, then, control the
landscaping and control things of that nature. So, we know -- you know, everybody is
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talking about these poor little estate lots. These are half acre lots and larger and these
-- as everybody says they are in high demand I guess. So, these people are going to
spend a lot of money to -- to live in the gold area. That water bill will just be part of it. I
personally have a house that doesn't have water rights, it had to -- had to get a waiver as
well and, then, in June and July I -- I guess I eat out less. I have to pay more for my water
bill.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Okay. Jim, now for my pea brain, what you're telling us on the watering system,
The Village is going to be handled by one system by the association that's running The
Village. The rest of the lots are going to be individual off of city water. Is that right?
Conger: Madam Mayor, Mr. Bird, that is absolutely correct. Our Village area is fully
maintained through everything. So, the water is just another fully maintained.
Bird: And who is -- who is responsible for that? The homeowners association. Now, this
is -- in fairness, Mr. Bird, this is different. These -- this neighborhood -- I mean they have
got a 3,000 square foot community center, they have got their exterior maintenance, they
have got their -- all their yards are being -- I mean the --
Bird: We are -- my wife and I are looking at over 55. We --
Conger: Boy, do I got a deal for you.
Bird: -- the deal and they -- no. Not that far out.
Conger: I got a tour for you, Mr. Bird.
De Weerd: Other questions for Mr. Conger?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question. And, Jim, I have to echo some of the comments from Council. I
appreciate your -- your effort and your intent to address many of the concerns that you
heard from residents and the Council on -- on your previous application. The one piece
that I am -- I am wrestling with is -- and if I recall, this spring when you bought your other
application, I was, for the most part, relatively supportive of it. But there was feedback
from the Council that I heard loud and clear was bring us back an application with less
units and the application before us has more units and I just need to understand what the
rationale was behind that, why if -- if the Council says this is something that should really
come forward, that you would bring back something with more, not less.
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Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, no, fair question. We did have those
piles of the City Council items -- don't really recall it saying come back with less lots, it
was a very direct mandate, go back and bring back R-4. So, when -- in our sit down of
working through R-4 -- you know. And it was two things. It wasn't just R-4. Like I said,
there was a pile of at least six items. It was transition better to Blackrock. We -- we have
done that. Transition better to the east boundary. We did that. We sit down with the
west boundary and, quite frankly, if I had a project in front of you that -- in that green area
that wasn't 60 percent less per house in traffic, we should be having a further discussion
with neighbors into having a concern, but it -- taking traffic aside, which this product does
remove traffic altogether, then, it comes down to shouldn't that west boundary neighbor
have about more say than -- than the three Blackrock homes next to it and the others on
the east side, that we did listen to Council and come back. This is an R-4 product. It's
actually an R-2 product, except we have to go R-4, because your R-2 zoning code is a
little bit broken with side yard setbacks that we are working with staff on at some point.
But this is an R-4. It's R-2 in the gold. And the neighbor to the west -- yeah. I mean we
can give her R-4, typical two story lots, that's -- you know, every time I have been in here
before when I don't listen to the neighbor to the west, I -- I get abused. Now, I have got
the neighbor to the west with -- with us hand in hand on this product, because it is a better
product now. So, yes, there ended up being more homes. Certainly less traffic, 30 to 32
percent less traffic, but because of the product type is how we come. So, we took this
pile of at least six items that we took out of City Council, what -- what we think we brought
back was everything but the R-4 development. We did not bring that back to you. We
think we did better with all the mingling with neighbors, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Anymore? Thank you, Jim.
De Weerd: Any final comments?
Conger: No. Madam Mayor, we definitely appreciate the process. The remand back
was actually healthy and we look forward to moving this project forward for sure. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Anything further from staff? Okay. Council?
Bird: Council, need anymore? Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing we don't need -- they don't need any more public hearing, I move we close
the public hearing on H-2017-0129.
Palmer: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 9-A. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Maybe a motion to facilitate any discussion afterwards. I move we approve H-
2017-0129 and to include the much spoken of Exhibit A requirements and to waive the
requirement to obtain water rights. Did I miss anything important?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Palmer: Anybody want to second?
Bird: I will. I will second and, then, I got a question.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Bird.
Bird: For the maker of the motion, does that include the comments from the applicant in
your motion? All comments?
Palmer: Absolutely.
Bird: Okay. Does that included -- that's the -- the one thing I was hung up on with the
irrigation.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener. Will you turn on your mic.
Cavener: I will. Thank you, Madam Mayor. Sorry, Dean. Appreciate the head nod. I
really like about two-thirds of this project. The piece that I'm really struggling with is we
as Council approving the step up in density to R-15 to approve these Village homes with
no sidewalks and are designed for a senior -- or sorry. Over 55. Doesn't have to be
senior -- resident. To me it just doesn't seem -- it seems -- it doesn't seem appropriate
for the area, in my opinion, and I'm really struggling with the R-15 piece. So, I am not
supportive of the motion at this point.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Cavener. Any other comments?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I must admit, I have gone back and forth and back and forth about this.
Probably the -- I mean I think that Jim has bent over backwards working things out and
coming up with a really great solution, but I also -- it's hard to see so many people that
are unhappy, even though it falls within the parameters. Probably, the honest tipping
point for me is Kathy Baumgartner and working through things to the point that she knows
what her view is going to be, not two story houses and to the point that she is willing to
put some restrictions on her own land, even though this is not the vision that she wanted
to see, that she has spent the time and the energy to restrict her own land in order to
make this work and make this a livable, you know, location for them and so as the closest
homeowner with the most property against it, I guess I really feel like if she's gone that
far, then, I have kind of tipped the point and will support the project.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further comment? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
B. Public Hearing for Movado Greens Subdivision (H-2017-0104)
by DevCo, LLC located on the south side of E. Overland Road
between S. Topaz Way and S. Cloverdale Road
1. Request: Rezone of approximately 11.08 acres from C-G to
the R-15 zoning district;
2. Request: Preliminary plat consisting of 96 single family
residential lots, 6 commercial lots, and 7 common lots on
approximately 24.23 acres in the proposed C-G and R-15
zoning district;
3. Request: Development agreement modification to
incorporate the 96 residential lots and 7 common lots into
the existing DA for Movado Estates Subdivision (Instrument
# 2017-012608);
4. Request: Development agreement modification to reduce the
total acreage of the Silverstone Apartments site and to
reduce the number of apartment units;
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5. Request: Conditional Use Permit Modification to reduce the
acreage of the apartment project, to reduce the number of
units, modify the proposed amenities and other specific
changes to the previously approved project
(H-2016-0060)
De Weerd: Item 9-B is a public hearing for H-2017-0104. I am opening the public hearing,
but as stated to the neighbors who came to comment, I will ask for a motion from Council
to continue this to December 5th.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we continue the public hearing for H-2017-0104 to December 5th, 2017.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Item 9-B to December 5th. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing for Proposed Meridian Parks and Recreation
Fee Updates
1. Resolution No. 17-2050: Adopting new recreational classes
and programming fees of the Meridian Parks & Recreation
Department; superseding previous recreational classes and
programming fees of the Meridian Parks & Recreation
Department; adopting a new fee for reservation of Kleiner
Park for special event half day; amending fee description For
Kleiner Park Shelter A-1 and B-1 grill reservations; repealing
fee for full day Kleiner Park Shelter A-1 and B-1 grill
reservations; authorizing the Parks & Recreation Department
to collect such fees; and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Item C is the public hearing for the Parks and Recreation fee update. Hey,
Colin.
Moss: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Hopefully this will be
short and sweet. So, we have a list of fees for our upcoming winter activity guide that are
listed in this resolution, as well as just a couple of -- a couple of clean-up type fees for
Kleiner Park and so I would just stand for any questions about any of the fees or the edits
to the fees that are listed.
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De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Colin. Council, any questions or comments?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Colin, anything new that we are offering in the rec guide that we need to be
aware of?
Moss: That would be more of Jake's department, so -- there is a long list of all the classes
that are -- are going into it. There is a lot of -- you know, a lot of youth dance classes, a
lot of adults -- adult yoga and fitness and classes like that. I couldn't tell you how many
of these are actually new classes that we haven't offered previously, but Jake always puts
together a good variety of things. So, I encourage everybody to sift through it.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approved resolution number 17-2050, adopting the fees for Kleiner Park.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, before I entertain that, I do see two members of the public that are
probably not here to testify on this item, I just have to ask. This is a public hearing on our
park fees. Do you have any public testimony? Okay. I will give you one for -- for staying
this late.
Bird: You will get one.
De Weerd: You bet. Okay.
Bird: I'm sorry, Mayor, I should have closed the public hearing.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move we close the public hearing on the proposed Meridian Parks
and Recreation fee.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 9-C. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
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November 28, 2017
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Resolution 17-2050.
Cavener: Second.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the resolution under five -- I mean
9-C-1. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: Department Reports
A. Acceptance of Ada County's Canvass of the Votes for the
November 7, 2017 Meridian City General Election
De Weerd: Item 10-A is under our city clerk. I will turn this over to him.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Before the Council this evening, the Ada County
Board of Commissioners canvass the votes for the November 7th Meridian city general
election. The Ada county clerk certified those votes, so before the Council this evening
is to take formal action and acceptance of the canvass of the votes.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I am sure everybody has looked at the canvass and I would move that we accept
the canvass of the votes as by the Ada county clerk.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10-A. Is there any discussion?
Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
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November 28, 2017
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De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 11: Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 17-1754: Amending Title 10, Chapter 1, Meridian
City Code, Adopting the 2015 International Building Code,
2012 International Residential Code, 2015 International Energy
Conservation Code, 2015 International Existing Building Code,
and Local Amendments thereto; Amending Title 10, Chapter 2,
Meridian City Code, Adopting the 2017 Idaho State Plumbing
Code, Permit Required, Application Issuance, Fees, Inspection
Requirements, and Penalties; Amending Title 10, Chapter 3,
Meridian City Code, Adopting the 2017 National Electrical
Code and Local Amendments thereto, Permit Application,
Issuance, and Fees; Amending Title 10, Chapter 4, Meridian
City Code, Adopting the 2015 International Fire Code and
Local Amendments thereto; Amending Meridian City Code
Section 10-5-2, Local Amendments to the 2012 International
Mechanical Code; Amending Meridian City Code Section 7-2-8,
Regarding Parking In Fire Lane; Adopting A Savings Clause;
and Providing an Effective Date
De Weerd: Item 11-A is an ordinance amending Title 10, Chapter 1, et cetera. Mr. Clerk,
will you read this by title.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 17-1754, amending
Title 10, Chapter 1, Meridian City Code, adopting the 2015 International Building Code,
2012 International Residential Code, 2015 International Energy Conservation Code, 2015
International Existing Building Code, and local amendments thereto; amending Title 10,
Chapter 2, Meridian City Code, adopting the 2017 Idaho State Plumbing Code, permit
required, application issuance, fees, inspection requirements, and penalties; amending
Title 10, Chapter 3, Meridian City Code, adopting the 2017 National Electrical Code and
local amendments thereto, permit application, issuance, and fees; amending
Title 10, Chapter 4, Meridian City Code, adopting the 2015 International Fire Code and
local amendments thereto; amending Meridian City Code Section 10-5-2, local
amendments to the 2012 International Mechanical Code; amending Meridian City Code
Section 7-2-8, regarding parking in fire lanes; adopting a savings clause; and providing
an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard this ordinance read by title. Is there anyone who would like
to hear it read in its entirety? Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
November 28, 2017
Page 77 of 78
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinance No. 17-1754 with suspension of rules.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Ordinance under 11-A. What
ordinance number is this?
Coles: Madam Mayor, it's Ordinance 17-1754.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. I was looking on the agenda online. Sorry about that.
Okay. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk. It was suspenseful right?
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little Roberts,
yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 12: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Anything under Future Meeting Topics?
Bird: The parade.
De Weerd: Council, yes, there is a parade on Friday. You're all going to be there; right?
Bird: On the float?
De Weerd: And we have all told April if you're coming? You're not? Oh, okay. He has
his own float. Okay. Also there is the AIC legislative summit. If you are going, please,
let April know. And with that I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Bird: So moved.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:29 P.M.
Meridian City Council
November 28, 2017
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(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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