HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 11-03 PreCITY OF MERIDIAN
PRE -COUNCIL MEETING
AGENDA
Wednesday, November 3, 2004 at 6:30 p.m.
City Council Chambers
1. Roll -call Attendance:
0 Shaun Wardle X Christine Donnell
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
_CX Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda: approve as amended
3. Discussion of Request to Allow City of Nampa Sewer Service to an
80 Acre Parcel at Black Cat and Victory Roads: Staff from Nampa
Meridian Irrigation to discuss
(*20 minutes)
4. Discussion of Interim Ordinance: Discussed
(*5 minutes)
5. Request for Disposal of Surplus Property:
(*5 minutes)
6. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f): No Decision
*Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change depending on
discussion. Please use the designated minutes as a guideline only.
Meridian City Pre -Council Agenda — November 3, 2004 Page 1 of 1
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Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting November 3. 2004
The Meridian City Pre -Council meeting was called to order at 6:30 P.M. on
Tuesday, November 3, 2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle and
Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Bruce Freckleton, Bill Nary, Kenny Bowers, Anna Canning,
Dean Willis and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Christine Donnell X Keith Bird
_0 Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: It's been requested to add an Item No. 6, Executive Session per Idaho
State Code 67-2345(1)(f) and hope that that meets your approval and if it does I
would entertain a motion to adopt the agenda as revised.
Rountree: So moved.
Donnell: Second.
Bird: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the revised agenda. All in favor?
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3. Discussion of Request to Allow City of Nampa Sewer Service
to an 80 -Acre Parcel at Black Cat and Victory Roads:
Freckleton: Madame Mayor, members of the Council this is a request by Shaun
Wardle — or Shaun Nickel pinch-hitting tonight for Brad Watson. It's an 80 -acre
site that on the map that I have got up here, it's — my laser is not working. But,
you can see it; it's in yellow right up there. This is Victory Road on the north
boundary of the 80 acre parcel, McDermott to the west. The City of Meridian's
area of impact is in gray and our referral area is in blue. The limits of our sanitary
sewer or urban service -planning boundary is the red dashed line that you will see
depicted here. The request is to have this site sewered to City of Nampa. Our
sewer master plan as I mentioned only covered the area within the red dashed
line. There is a fairly significant lateral that goes through here called the
Caulken's Lateral. The topography of the land falls off to the southwest from that
lateral and fails northeast this way. So, as far as trying to get gravity sewer to
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
November 3, 2004
Page 2 of 9
this area, we cannot provide it. The only way that we would be able to provide
service to this site would be to either install a regional lift station to be able to
pump the sewage north all the way up to our plant, which is in this area right
here. Or, build another plant out south of town, which neither of those options
are real attractive. The Black Cat Sewer Trunk project is underway to bring
service down into this area from the plant. We are going to be building the
regional lift station — kind of hard to see on this map. The regional lift station is
just south of Cherry Lane in this area here. If we were to try and do something
down in the south here, we would need to revisit our entire master plan. We
would probably need to put the brakes on this Black Cat project that is underway
because line sizes have been set based on the service area within the limits
shown on the map. So, we would kind of need to revisit and start over for that
area. I think that basically sums it up. I am sure the applicant would like to
address the issue.
Bird: Thank you, any questions for the staff at this point? Shaun, do you want to
Nickel: Thank you, do I need to state my name for the record? Shaun Nickel, 55
North 2nd Street in Eagle. Kind of a unique question I am posing to you this
evening. Just to give you a brief history, my client went through a preliminary
plat application for a non-farm development with Ada County a year and one half
ago on this site and received approval for 16, one -acre lots. Those are the
subdivision that you duster in one area and then you leave 75 percent of the
property in open space for future development. Our intention was to have a
community septic system in place to handle sewage upon working with DEQ it
became apparent that the package treatment systems that have been (inaudible)
approved in the past are kind of put under more scrutiny and they would not
approve that system out here so we have a preliminary plat that's basically sitting
without the ability to serve it with sewer. My client did approach Nampa City to
just see the availability of their sewer system and they told my client that they
didn't see a real problem with that, however, they needed something from Ada
County. So, when we went and spoke to Ada County the first thing they told us
to do was come and talk to you folks and just see if — just kind of start the
conversation, I guess. They had never really experienced any of them of this
process of bringing services across the County line, nor have I and so that's the
uniqueness, I guess, of our request. To develop in this area, it is in the RR- rural
residential zone even by providing sewer out there we are still limited to the
county's rural residential zoning, which means that we only could do 10 -acre lots
or the non-farm development. So, even by providing sewer out here, we would
not be able to do rezones and get any urban densities or urban subdivisions out
here. We would still be limited to either one unit per five acres, which is what you
can get with the non-farm or the one until per ten acre if you did just 10 -acre lots.
Of course a ten -acre lot would not need sewer. They could do that with a septic
system, so it would strictly be these one -acre non-farm developments if there
were any others that would hook onto that system. That's kind of a brief history
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
November 3, 2004
Page 3 of 9
of where we are at. We just want to see where the city stands or what their
thinking is on that. 1 did meet with Brad about a month ago and you know he
kind of scratched his head as well and didn't know what to think of it. So, I kind
of proposed that to you guys to ponder.
Bird: Any questions for Shaun?
Rountree: Mr. President. Any hesitancy on the part of the applicant that there
would be some new sort of stipulation on those lots that they potentially or could
at some point and time in the future become annexed or part of the City of
Meridian?
Nickel: Absolutely not.
Bird: Any other questions?
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I think with a lot of the activity it looks like its coming up in the south.
It's really important that Meridian and Kuna get together and start deciding how
those areas between our two cities are to be served and I think it almost goes
back to the direction that we gave to staff last week and they need to get together
with — they need to really examine this area and see what we can do. Either we
are going to continue to exist with only the area of impact that we show master
plan and service right now or we start looking for a future growth and how we are
going to serve that and how we are going to work with the areas around us. This
catches us all off guard. This is the first that I have heard about it and so, I don't
know how to respond, but we do need to take a look at this site. I don't feel
comfortable to give an answer tonight and I am know that everyone that would be
served on the Black Cat Sewer Trunk Line has been told they can't develop
anything until we get a Ten Mile Interchange. So, we are not really looking to
grow in that area. It is a county density sub, so its a little bit unique to what else
we have seen, but I don't know what the comfort level of the rest of the Council
is, but I think we really need to sit down and talk about this.
Bird: Any others? I would agree with the Mayor that this is something that we
need to look into because Black Cat wasn't planned on going across the freeway
— south of the freeway until we got the interchange in there and I haven't heard
anything different. Shaun, I think, we as a Council need to sit down and decide
which way we want to go on this. Not only that, I think we need to — our staff
needs to contact Nampa and make sure that what they do and what we do is in a
joint agreement. You know, it might be that its too expensive for even the Black
Cat if we have to pump back up there for drains and I do remember the JUB
book that I have got, it does run that way — it falls off instead of fall back, so I
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
November 3, 2004
Page 4 of 9
think that is something that the two staffs need to get together on and we need to
look and I think as a Council, my own personal opinion is we need to take a long
hard look at it and not make a sudden decision that isn't right. That's my opinion.
Any others?
Nickel: Mr. President.
Bird: Shaun.
Nickel: May I initiate that discussion between the two staffs? Is that a problem?
Bird: That would be fine, Shaun. That would be great.
Nickel: At least to get it going and then maybe we can bring back at a future date
that conversation and look at it again.
Rountree: I think the only thing that I would be interested in is this is but one
piece out there. Does the City of Nampa have designs on commercialization and
(inaudible) facility that potentially could service this whole area and that certainly
has an impact on what it is we are looking at as far as growth and infrastructure.
I agree with the Mayor as well that's something that the City of Kuna needs to be
aware of as well. This could be or would be the first step in having Nampa
becoming Boise and extending infrastructure to areas and then all of a sudden
have these odd developments across the county to —
Bird; They are even going across county line —
Rountree: — but that's going to happen someday anyway and that's something
we are all going to have to live with.
Nickel: For your reference, Mr. President and Councilman Rountree, the Nampa
impact area currently is, I believe, right here. And then it goes that way and they
are in the process with Canyon County and renegotiating that and bringing it
down to — it kind of notches down and square off their impact area about another
mile or so to the south. There is a lot of activity right now on this side. A couple
of the developments that I am working on actually separate from this one, but —
so I know that the sewer is about two miles away right now from that. So, this
developer would be brining that sewer line down, my developer. But, again there
would be participation with the action that's going on over in that area.
Bird: Well, I think that if you want to get the staffs together and let's get this
going, but 1 think we need to really think it over and make sure that we get all the
is crossed and all the I's dotted.
Nickel: And then, Mr. President, as your request or recommendation also to
contact the City of Kuna?
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
November 3, 2004
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Bird: I don't think it would hurt to have Kuna involved too because I think it's very
good that we would have them.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I think these are two different meetings. I think the meeting
regarding this particular site is one thing, the rest of it is another and I don't want
that to be developer driven, I want it to be city driven and so they are two
separate things. The other one is more of a long term. I guess we need to start
knowing what Nampa's plans are because they are dumping their traffic on our
roads and those roads are not planned for improvement for some time. So, we
know they will be going right into our city and beyond so there is a real growth
issue in that regards that is separate from the site. Maybe our planning staffs
need to get together too and start seeing what their plans for growth in that area
if they are bringing their sewer — I didn't even know their sewer was that far out.
Our planning staffs, Meridian, Kuna and Nampa need to get together and start
discussing this and at some point bring in ACHD as well.
Watson: We would be happy to do that.
Bird: Okay, let's continue on with the — and get this thing taken care of, get the
planning staff together and get it done. It is a problem and Nampa is closer and
(inaudible ---) just drive out there.
(Inaudible discussion)
Item 4. Discussion of Interim Ordinance:
Nary: Mr. President, members of the Council, Madame Mayor actually this is a
discussion probably for both Ms. Canning and myself. We had received some
information from Dr. Freilich, from the Mayor and Ms. Canning got this as well
and this is basically a suggestion from the study by Dr. Freilich that we consider
an interim ordinance that is essentially rather than a moratorium, but some
different standards and maybe Ms. Canning could speak to some of those things
as to what was being proposed and then we could discuss and this is to make
sure that you are aware of what's being proposed and I guess some
recommendations from us as to what to do with that.
Canning: President Bird, Madame Mayor, members of the Council. I did want to
give you a little bit of a background on how this came about. At the last steering
committee, which was a couple of weeks ago, at the end of that Mr. Freilich
asked if anyone would be interested in it. It wasn't a big topic of discussion and I
have to tell you Its not something he put a lot of emphasis on either. It was just
like, if you want one we will send it to you and if you don't want it, we won't send
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
November 3, 2004
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it to you. Who is interested? I did raise a hand just cause I wanted to see what it
was, in all honesty. When it showed up it was just like oh well this is interesting,
but I really don't think City Council is going to want to go for it. You have that
before you. In all honesty, I didn't go into detail on it because by my cursory
review it just didn't seem like the direction we were headed. Shortly after that I
got a phone call from a planner at Ada County who is looking at it. We haven't
actually been able to connect, but basically her voice mail was have you seen
this thing and what do you guys doing? Then yesterday I had a similar
discussion with ACRD. So, I think everyone that got it feels a little bit
uncomfortable with it, so I don't think its something we need to dwell on. I talked
to the ACHD folks yesterday and we decided that maybe the best thing to do is
say one of the things that the Freilich study is trying to do is build consensus on
these issues. Because we are not at that point yet, it's really not worth spending
a lot of time on this interim ordinance trying to gain the consensus for that. Let's
work on the other things in the study and build that consensus and maybe when
we get to the end, then we will adopt the ordinances. So, I don't think it's going
to be a big deal not to adopt it. I think that everybody has some concerns or —
about the interim ordinance they received. There are three different ones. The
county got one version, the city has got another version and then ACHD got a
third version.
Bird: Any questions or statements Council?
Rountree: I haven't a question, but we probably ought to express our opinion to
whomever is coordinating that and at this point they haven't — well, they have
hired a coordinator or they are in the process of hiring a coordinator for the blue
print study and either verbally or in writing and in our opinion it's premature for
not a direction in which to go.
Canning: I am sorry, Mr. President, Councilman Rountree did you say you would
like to write a letter?
Rountree: I said we ought to let them know that that's our position. I don't know
if the rest of the cities are, but if in fact that's where we are we have got to let
them know.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess, I don't know if we need to do it with formality of the letter
other than to have staff bring that word back at the steering committee and I can
certainly bring that message back when we meet as a coalition.
Rountree: That would better you bring it up than us?
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
November 3, 2004
Page 7 of 9
De Weerd: Yes, I would certainly take that opportunity.
Bird: I would agree with that. Christine is that your feelings too?
Donnell: Sounds great since I don't know what study you are even talking about.
I think you are doing just fine.
Rountree: That's probably not a bad position to be in.
Canning: Councilmember Donnell if you would like more information on it you
are welcome to give me a call or come by the office I would be happy to get you
up to speed on it.
Item 5. Request for Disposal of Surplus Property:
Nary: Mr. President, members of the Council, Madame Mayor there is in your
packet is a memo and a Finance Department regarding disposal of property.
Where this all started is a really pretty simple thing. We had a, I think, a screen
of some sort with the Wastewater Treatment Plant that we wanted to donate to
the City of Emmett for their use and it's a fairly long string of emails that went
back and forth about the process. There is already an existing Finance
Department policy. It's not a citywide policy, although one thing I would
recommend you consider is making it a citywide policy rather than just a
departmental policy. It has disposal guidelines. I think the law has changed
some because in looking through the policy the Idaho Code Sections that are
quoted in there don't reflect the same thing that's in the policy so I think the law
may have been changed so we could probably clean that up. But, basically the
reason its before you is because 1 suggested that before we dispose of property
that we find a method or a practice to make sure that the both of the liaison for
the department was aware of what the property was that was being disposed and
that it be on your agenda in some fashion so we propose to bring it tonight in the
Pre -Council, if you would like it in the future to basically be run through the — it
requires it be approved by the Mayor in the policy, though we add that the
departmental liaison as part of that sign off, we could certainly do that. If you
would like it on your consent agenda with a resolution so that you have some
document that documents what property we are disposing of when we are
donating it to either a charitable organization or another municipality we could
certainly do that, but really all we were looking for was some process questions
from you and then we could get this screen donated to where it needs to go. I
think it's been a couple of months that they have been badgering this back and
forth. But, I just wanted to make sure that you were aware of that and what due
process you would like to see it in the future.
Bird: Any questions or statements?
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
November 3, 2004
Page 0 of 9
Rountree: Mr. President if we are going to do this — make the processes simple
and straight forward as we can; with this specific matter at hand I would request
for disposal of the screen and let them know. I think it's a good reuse of
something that is just going to sit and rust in a bone yard that another city could
utilize it and take advantage of that and I think that is something we ought to do.
Bird: And we should bring a resolution forward.
Rountree: I think our resolution is appropriate to do that given the size and initial
capital investment.
Bird: I would agree with what Mr. Nary said and I think we do on all our property
that we donate or surplus property needs to be done on a resolution then
because we do then have a track record of it if we have to ever track anything
down and I agree with Mr. Rountree that I would like to see somebody get some
use out of it instead of sitting out there and rusting away.
Nary: Mr. President, members of the Council with your indulgence then I will
work with finance and we will clean up the policy a little bit and then I will go
prepare a resolution that as I told the Finance Department we have done it pretty
routinely and I can do it pretty quickly — that was part of their concerns is some of
these things in the past took a little longer than they wanted them to. So, I can
get this done pretty quickly. We will bring it back and maybe you will see it.
Rather than us brining it every time to Pre -Council we will just put it on your
consent agenda when we have these items, but we will have the liaisons from
the different departments to make sure they have seen it as well as the Mayor
before it gets there, so that way you will know that it is coming and then if you
have an item that you want to pull off to discuss, you certainly can do that.
Bind: Thank you, Mr. Nary.
Item 6. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f):
Bird: I would entertain a motion to go into Executive Session.
Rountree: So moved.
Donnell: Second.
Bird: Mr. Clerk, roll call.
Berg: Thank you Mr. President, members of the Council roll call vote. Rountree,
aye; Donnell, aye; Bird, aye;
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
November 3, 2004
Page 9 of 9
Bird: Council, I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Rountree: So moved.
Donnell: Its been moved and seconded. All in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Bird: Okay, let it be noted that no decisions were made and Council that takes
care of our Pre -Council meeting. I would entertain a motion for adjournment.
Rountree: So moved.
Donnell: Second.
Bird: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:18 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
_,T -a MAYOR
ATTESTED:
WILLIAM G. BERG,
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