HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 10-05 PreCITY OF MERIDIAN
PRE -COUNCIL MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, October 5, 2004 at 6:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Shaun Wardle X Vacant
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve
3. Discussion of Black Cat Sewer Trunk by David Turnbull and Frank
Varriale: (JUB Study is not ready please table to October 12, 2004
Pre -Council Meeting) Table to October 12, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting
4. Request for Sewer Service by (
Prepare Agreement with Boise City
5. Transportation Task Force Recommendations for TIP FY05:
*Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change depending on
discussion. Please use the designated minutes as a guideline only.
Meridian City Pre -Council Agenda — October 5, 2004 Page 1 of 1
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
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Meridian City Pre -Council Meetina October 5. 2004
The Meridian City Pre -Council meeting was called to order at 6:00 P.M. on
Tuesday, October 5, 2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle and
Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Brad Watson, Bill Nary, Anna Canning, Brad Hawkins -Clark,
John Overton and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll -call Attendance:
Vacant X Keith Bird
X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Wardle: Mr. Vice -President.
Bird: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Thank you Mr. Vice -President. I move that we adopt the agenda as
published.
Rountree: Second.
Bird: Its been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as published. All those
in favor, say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3. Discussion of Black Cat Sewer Trunk by David Turnbull and
Frank Varriale:
Bird: Item 3, the item for the Black Cat Sewer Trunk has been asked to be tabled
to October 12, 2004 Pre -Council meeting. Would you like to give a motion on
that?
Rountree: So moved.
Wardle: Second.
Bird: Any discussion?
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
Page 2 of 11
Bird: Moved and seconded that we table Item No. 3 to October 12, 2004. All in
favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 4. Request for Sewer Service by Calvary Chapel Treasure Valley:
Watson: Thank you President Bird, Council members and Mayor and others.
This request came to Gary in August. He spoke with Pastor Zackman from
Calvary Chapel Treasure Valley. I haven't spoken with him ever. His request
was that he be allowed or at least the City of Meridian not object to him getting
sewer service from Boise City. The map on the screen, although it's somewhat
faded, does show their proposed site down here, south of Lake Hazel Road
about a half mile west of Cloverdale Road. There is one point in Gary's memo to
you that needs to be clarified. I think Gary was under the impression that this
site was within the area of impact and it's not. The area of impact boundary is a
quarter mile south of Amity and this side is another % of a mile south of that.
This is in our referral area and it is included in the sewer master plan as you have
heard me say before, our sewer master plan simply extended as far as it could
until it ran out of depth or ran into Boise City limits. So, we do have a master
plan trunk way up here at the top end. The likelihood of getting the sewer
extended here would not be too great, other than the fact that it ultimately needs
to be diverted into the Black Cat Trunk, which as we all know is probably some
time away, at least on the south side of the interstate. It appears from Pastor
Zackman's letter that the motivation behind discharging to Boise City rather than
an onsite septic system is simply cost. Although, he doesn't specify what those
costs are other than to say he would save thousands of dollars. Gary did speak
with Boise City Public Works and they verified that they could accept this sewage
discharge into their system. Really, I think the only question before Council is
what kind of comment we should make to Boise City and two, if we don't object,
whether to enter into some agreement whereby once the sewer gets there in the
future, he is required to connect to City of Meridian sewer. Those are the two
issues, at least that I can glean from Gary's memo. I'll be happy to answer any
questions if you have those.
Bird: Council, any questions for Brad?
De Weerd: Mr. Vice -President.
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: Just to also say that Calvary Chapel has indicated that they would
like to stay in Meridian and so when we are there, they would readily annex in, so
they really would prefer the Meridian — continued the Meridian address. Is Boise
okay with that kind of arrangement, is the question I have for Brad?
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
Page 3 of 11
Watson: Madame Mayor. I can't tell from Gary's letter if they would be okay with
a temporary arrangement or not. They have been pretty agreeable to most of —
we haven't had any of these agreements actually take place, but they have been
discussed with their staff. Again, these are two engineering staff talking together.
We don't object to some of the things that elected officials might, but we could
make that comment that it's a temporary interim connection and that they would
need to put together an agreement to sewer to Meridian and annex when it's
available and they are contiguous. I expect that that would be quite a few years
in the future.
Bird: Any other questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have got a question for the legal angle here. What do we do as far as
getting a letter — just a letter stating it's okay with us as long as you come back in
and --?
Nary: Madame Mayor, members of the Council, Councilmember Bird the issue
really before you is what do you want to do to preserve that referral error for the
potential future that you may expand the impact area to meet that particular site.
I think what Mr. Watson is saying is that there does not occur to be in the
immediate future, they are certainly willing to sign an agreement of some sort or
some acknowledgement — they could probably do the same by letter. I am not
sure, 15 or 20 years from now when that's eligible to be in the city area of impact.
It's going to really be a question. I think the issue is going to be is if you allow
this particular site to simply go without any acknowledgement that they would
prefer to be in the City of Meridian when it's adjacent they would hook to your
sewer system, then the other surrounding property owners also may opt one way
or the other and then that may impact on whether or not you expand your impact
5, 10, 15 years from now. I think we could certainly prepare an agreement with
them. The enforceability of it 15 years from now may not be much. If it's not in
the area of impact, it's not. If it is in the area of impact, they are going to have to
hook to the sewer system anyway. Whether or not the City of Boise wants a
temporary arrangement, you know, I think it's their decision on allowing them to
hook on now. Whether they unhook to the system later, I don't know if they City
of Boise is going to care. Central District Health is the only one that normally
cares and as long as they are going to get hooked to somebody else, I don't
know that it'll matter to them either. We could certainly prepare an agreement if
you'd like. I don't know that a letter from them acknowledging that is probably
fine, but if we could certainly do that to at least make it a little more concrete for
the future. Whether or not it becomes an issue, we'd have something at least to
go forward with.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
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Bird: Council, would that be your preference to have Brad and legal draw up an
agreement that they would sign and go ahead and let it hook to Boise, with that
condition?
Wardle: Mr. Vice -President.
Bird: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: That would be my preference and that it be maybe not necessarily as
far as an agreement, but just an acknowledgement and understanding that when
the circumstances do arise they are contiguous and in the area of impact that
they do hook to the Meridian city sewer.
Bird: I am understanding that you with the agreement that the Mayor sign, the
Clerk attests, right? Was that a motion?
Wardle: So moved.
Rountree: I'll second.
Bird: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: It's a grand idea, but in theory, but in practice, who's going to uncover
this in 15 years —
Bird: Twenty.
Rountree: Twenty years, excuse me. Let 's do it. At least we are covered for
now.
Bird: Okay, we got a motion made and seconded. All in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Bird: Brad, will you take care of that with Mr. Nary and get it forward?
Watson: Yes, I will.
Item S. Transportation Task Force Recommendations for TIP FY05:
Hawkins -Clark: For some reason Gary Smith didn't want to come tonight. So, I
am pinch-hitting here. Yeah, I think you have all received the memo from Gary
that is the annual submission to the Council that outlines the roadway projects
and intersection projects and pedestrian projects that the Transportation Task
Force is recommending to you to be approved for the — or to forward onto Ada
County Highway District and COMPASS as part of their planning projects. The
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
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last page of the memo shows all of the committee members, which three of
those, I believe, are citizens and then the rest are some combination of agency
staff people. Generally, the advice that this committee has been given, which
does meet every year — that has been given by COMPASS staff and ACHD staff
is basically if there is a project that the City of Meridian really feels strongly about
and wants in the process to leave it on our list until the year of construction. Not
that there is that much of a risk in something getting taken off of the five year
work program, but that was the advice that this committee was given was since
they do every year go through a ranking process and they looked to see where
was this project? Where did it fall on the city's priority list? So, for that reason
we did leave the Locust Grove overpass as number one, Ten Mile Interchange is
number two and Meridian Road — then actually the rest of them did change in
terms of the rankings from last year's list, but we did leave the two significant 1-84
projects there at the top of the list. There is some pretty helpful information in the
comments column there, most of it provided by Dads Bruce, who is ITD staff. At
our committee meeting he kind of summarized where those projects were at and
the various access studies and environmental impact studies that go with those.
So, those comments are provided there for you. The other piece of advice that
we have been given relates to the order and the fact that while they will just kind
of move — they being the committee at ACHD that moves their way down through
this list every year, you know they just start at the top and just kind of move
down, but normally you won't see any more than the top four or five roadway
projects really have any impact on this next fiscal year for the Highway District.
One of the questions that came up at the committee was should we keep
Meridian Road from Cherry Lane to Franklin on there as a top five since we do
have the downtown transportation study that's underway. I guess the first
meeting was just this last week. As you can see, we did shift that from — it was
number three last year to number five this year. We moved up Linder Road to
the new number three, which essentially makes Linder Road from Franklin north
to Cherry Lane, the number one city recommendation for roadway widening in
terms of the local system widening after the Locust Grove overpass and Ten Mile
1-84 Interchange. The committee did feel that that was important — a number of
developments have come onto Linder Road as you know over the last year, year
and one half and they are really starting to see some congestion, especially there
at the railroad tracks and at Pine. The only other new item — a lot of this is just
kind of shifting up from last year's list. We did take Overland off and we took
Franklin off from last year's list, but we did add — at least I hope it's on there —
well, I guess it's not. I guess what we added this year was the discussion notes
from the meeting. That's where it is, it's on the attachment, which is just notes
from our meeting. The committee actually have met twice this year. We did talk
about the intersection improvements in north Meridian and those are listed there
in terms of the ranking. The Linder / Franklin is listed — oh, I am sorry the Ustick /
Linder is number one. Ustick / Meridian number two and McMillan / Meridian
number three in terms of the three intersection improvements. However, since
these have a much higher priority for us than what can feed into this normal tip
process, we are trying to work with them directly to see if there is other
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
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opportunities to work with those intersections, so if the Council feels like that's
something you want to add in here, I guess that would need to happen because
at this point it's not in the actual list that would be forwarded onto COMPASS and
ACHD. So, unless you would like me to go into any more detail on the projects
themselves or answer any questions about it, I think that the rest of it's pretty self
explanatory.
Bird: Council any questions for Brad?
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Bird: Madame Mayor
De Weerd: I guess as we look at the top two Locust Grove overpass and Ten
Mile Interchange it's very important that the connecting local roads reflect the
priorities as well because they are landing roads. I realize we have a lot of road
needs, but if dilute some of them by putting further down in there, are we really
supporting Locust Grove and Ten Mile as our top two, without having the local
roads priorities up high as well? I guess those are my comments. The Nola and
Pine and the emergency connection we need for Mallard landing area, those are
all listed as developer driven and should they be on there or in a separate
category in their own? They are certainly priorities, but since they are
development driven, we are taking up one of those needed priority numbers and
if certain priorities after a certain number drop off, you are almost wasting that
priority number. I guess those are my only observations and wondered if that
was a topic of discussion at the committee?
Hawkins -Clark: Madame Mayor, at least on the Locust Grove side, that is in the
five year work program. The touchdown point at Bentley, I think it is, about 600
feet north side. Of course, south side is going to be finished to Overland anyway,
with the crossing. But then as you head north from Bentley to Franklin and then
from Franklin to Fairview are currently already in the funded —
De Weerd: Well, I realize that, but I guess you had mentioned that they said
even though it's in a funding list, you should put it on here, so some of them that
are in a funding program are on here, some of them aren't on here. It's not
consistent. I am not sure —
Rountree: That's the question I have, Mr. President
Bird: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: You have got a mix of projects. A lot of these projects — well not a lot,
but some of the projects are already in the TIP and have a (inaudible)
established and it seems to me that the committee ought to be informed that
that's where they are and the funding level is what they are if the committee
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
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wants them advanced in the TIP that could be a recommendation, but probably
what they ought to be looking at is additional projects to be considered for adding
into the TIP. Because if you get ahead there, then you have an opportunity to
get some new projects, whereas a lot of these will just say well, stuff that's
already in the TIP is stuff that we still want, but we don't want anything more.
Locust Grove is there. I don't know that sidewalk projects necessarily need to
even be in the — I think that's something ACHD could probably tell us. Even
some of these other projects, I think are already in the TIP as well.
De Weerd: Well, I guess Brad if we could note that the year — if they are on a
funded year, what year they are and if we wanted to change that, what we would
be willing to swap it for, you know. I guess, when I hear the discussions at during
our joint meetings with ACHD or COMPASS meetings those are more along the
lines of what information they are seeking. If some of the priorities are going to
change and we have to reshuffle something, what are we willing to give up to get
it and how are we changing those priorities and what ultimate effect it has.
Hawkins -Clark: There is definitely a juggling thing going on here, because at
least my understanding is that there is some risk that you know something could
get bumped down if we didn't have it on our list here, but maybe we actually have
two lists or something that get submitted side by side and one reflects the
projects already in the TIP and basically affirms that we don't want to change
those and then the other ones is when they are in their prioritizing, they can look
to our new project list and say okay these are the ones that aren't currently in the
TIP. This is the format that we have traditionally submitted and I don't know if
COMPASS or ACHD are asking for it exactly in this format or not.
Rountree: Madame Mayor, Mr. President I think if you are playing in the arena of
projects being bumped or moved then we have a spot at the table on COMPASS
when that is considered as well as with ACHD Commissioners, so yeah there is a
potential of it happening, but I think as long as whomever our representatives are
in front of those particular groups or on governing boards we argue our case that
no we don't want that to slip or if it has to slip because of some funding malady
that shows up then yeah we will let that slip, but we want something to fill in
behind it, so it's a bargaining kind of activity. But, once it's on the TIP it's going
to stay on the TIP until essentially it can't be funded or Meridian says we don't
want it anymore. I'll give the floor to Katey at this point.
Levihn: Hello Mayor, President and Council members. May I take five minutes
to inform you of what I think are some changes, if not this year, coming up in the
near future with — well, they are actually incorporated here, but I see a little bit of
a difference. We do typically say please leave your requests in here so that we
understand the importance of them, like Locust Grove overpass, which is funded.
By the way I want to say although we program that in our five year work program
for'06, it was taking a big risk, which ITD has supported us on that and it is going
to be advanced constructed in '06 provided all the environmental documentation
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
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and right of way acquisition goes through. And it looks like it will at this time.
One thing I want you to notice is that COMPASS is trending towards looking
more regionally and what you see in the TIP if you notice very carefully the TIP is
limited to principal arterials are higher or regionally significant roadways. Several
of your roadways in here are not — don't fall under either of those categories. So,
although this says TIP request, it's also TIP and five year work program request
because it is a local entity and we have most of those roadways that you have in
there.
Rountree: So, would that be part of your CIP as well?
Levihn: Well, our CIP is related only to capacity expansion projects that are
calculated under that formula, so we have got a really confusing, in a way, lists of
projects that we keep out there. The ones on the TIP are principal arterials or
higher or regionally significant and I can give you that definition if you want. The
CIP is only capacity expansion that are needed by a certain formula twenty years
out, then there is projects on here that are not in the CIP and not in the TIP that
ACHD handles it or typically the arterials, although any collector roadway of
course, doesn't meet either of those other two, the CIP or the TIP process,
typically. What I would ask for you, what I notice about your — the change in the
list here if you decide to go ahead with it is the significant change from what they
are showing as the last project on the first page, West Linder Road from Franklin
to Cherry has moved up to third place and the top one on the next page, Ten
Mile from Franklin actually we have it to Cherry in the program, you ask all the
way to Ustick. What's important for us is because that second road, Ten Mile
from Franklin to Cherry is scheduled for construction in '07. 1 would have to
check, we probably just let the design contract on that for this year. So, it would
be difficult for us to change that, but we could if you were indeed putting Linder
Road ahead of Ten Mile Road. That kind of thing is what I am seeing in this
program. Other than that the top five or ten are pretty much as they are in the
program or not in the program and likely not to be what's number seven, the
second one on the second page, rebuild of Pine? Because that's a priority
number 43, we are currently funded on our list through about priority 36 or 37, so
this rebuild of Pine will likely be evaluated to be put into PD, if the priority remains
the same. We are right now in the process of re-evaluating all those priorities.
We look at all the change in ADT and what's been built and what hasn't been.
So, that is a real candidate to move up into PD. Another thing why I am
particularly pointing that one out, possibly also what shows up both current and
last year's number ten Ustick from Locust Grove to Eagle, that's currently
showing priority 51. That might also — that's pushing it but that might be
considered for our preliminary development category in part because you saw we
had — we collected more money this year than we thought we would with
economic conditions and we had that 4 million, we have moved several projects
from '06 to '05 and so that might open up a slot — another project or two slot on
the end of the program. I have to qualify that might. There have also been
significant increases in oil prices which reflects an asphalt, steel, which reflects in
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
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concrete work. We are not sure how that's going to workout. But, I would say
those two projects are the ones that are likely to be considered for actually
moving into our five-year work program that I would have to check to see if they
are regionally significant and would then move into the TIP. That feel at the
moment is not. Then that other one, I would point out between Linder from
Franklin to Cherry and Ten Mile, Franklin to Ustick. It may be difficult to switch
those because I believe those designed contracts been (inaudible).
De Weerd: I (inaudible --) changing that priority, but I don't know —
Bird: Any questions for Katey?
Levihn: I know it's confusing, please —
Rountree: Now that we are all confused —
Levihn: Well, it is. We try to not put your transportation task force through a
meeting with ITD, a meeting with us, a meeting with COMPASS. We tried to do it
all at once and so there is several lists and priorities going on at the same time
here.
Bird: Any other questions?
De Weerd: Mr. Vice -President.
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess what would be helpful on this list is to show where they are
and at in the funding and I should have brought my map and I didn't think to.
But, it would also be helpful as we submitted if there is a funding year to it, so it's
kind of like the item three and four for this year that was five and six last year.
We would see that difference and I guess we don't want to send out mixed
messages to ACHD and I think we have been pretty aggressive in showing that
Ten Mile is that priority and that would put Ten Mile ahead of Linder and I think
that's reflected as well on your work plan.
Levihn: Right now Ten Mile is for construction in 2007 and Linder in 2009.
Bird: That's the way it was given to us (inaudible). We need to switch those.
De Weerd: Mr. Vice -President.
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess maybe we can do a little bit of clean up on this and also we
see the ranking from last year. If we can re -rank or if we can sort these to the
Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
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proposed rankings, it also makes it easier to read what has been changed and at
the funding years and have Council look at it again next week and just maybe do
some sorting as Katey has suggested. Would that be acceptable, Brad?
Hawkins-Clark: So, reorder based on current year priorities, but then is there
something in addition to that?
De Weerd: Well, kind of take the regionally significant. Also put in funding years
— that there are funding years, so Council can, better synthesize what information
we have here.
Hawkins-Clark: Yeah, they are hidden in there, but I think everything that has a
funding year is in there. It's just a little bit imbedded.
Levihn: We could help with that. I would suggest putting in a separate columns,
two columns. One showing funding year and one showing regionally significant
in TIP, in CIP in five year work programs or something like that. Make it simple.
Hawkins-Clark: Would you like us to work that together and then bring back to
you next week?
Bird: Is that your preference, Council?
Rountree: That would be mine.
Wardle: Mine too.
Bird: That would be mine. Okay, Brad if you would do that we would certainly
appreciate it.
Hawkins-Clark: In terms of the projects themselves, though, the Council has
none other to add or comments on --?
Bird: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess in the current form it's a little bit jumbled to know. I
personally would like to see three and four switched. You know, as I was trying
to go through this last week when I got it, it just was — it would help if it were done
a little bit different.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Bird: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: One comment I would suggest that the committee contemplate is
finish the connection of our community and that's looking at a Linder grid
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
October 5, 2004
Page 11 of 11
separation. That's long-term. But, that's the next one in the puzzle to get all of
our grid connected across ail of our city.
De Weerd: The overpass. That's a ITD — that's like telling a doctor, in English
please.
Bird: Anything else? We are done with that and we are done with our Pre -
Council meeting unless somebody has something and if not I would entertain a
motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Wardle: Second.
Bird: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:20 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
TAMMY DEVEERD, MAYOR
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SEAL AT E�
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DATE APPROVED
WILLIAM G. BERG, A., CITY CLERK