HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 09-28Revised 9-27-04
CITY OF MERIDIAN
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, September 28, 2004 at 7:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance: Eli $ Rosie Nary
3. Community Invocation by Pastor Steve Moore, with Cherry Lane
Christian Church: Presented
4. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve
5. Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of September 7, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting:
Approve
B. Approve Minutes of September 7, 2004 City Council Regular
Meeting: Approve
C. Approve Minutes of September 14, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting:
Approve
D. Approve Minutes of September 14, 2004 City Council Regular
Meeting: Approve
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 04-
008 Request for a Rezone of 16.49 acres from R-4 to R-4, R-8 and
L -O zones for Larkspur Subdivision by Larkspur, LLC — 2090,
2190 and 2240 South Meridian Road: Approve
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
023 Request for a Preliminary Plat approval for 56 building lots and
6 common lots on 18.94 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for
Larkspur Subdivision by Larkspur, LLC - 2090, 2190 and 2240
South Meridian Road: Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda — September 28, 2004 Page I of 6
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the Cdy of Meridian
Anyone desirigg accommodetioa for disabilities related to documerds and/or beatings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888.4433 at least 48 hoors prim to the public meeting.
Revised 9-27-04
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-025 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a mixed use
Planned Development consisting of single family residential,
assisted living and office uses with reductions to the minimum
requirements for lot size and street frontage for Larkspur
Subdivision by Larkspur, LLC - 2090, 2190 and 2240 South
Meridian Road: Approve
W. Fundings of FarA and CenGluslons of Law for AppFoval; RZ 04
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Meridian City Council Agenda — September 28, 2004 Page 2 of 6
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documanta and/or hearings
please contact the City CleWs Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
O.
Revised 9-27-04
Resolution No. 04-446 Amendment to Solid Waste
Collection Rates: Approve
P. Public Pathway Easement for Glacier Springs Subdivision by
Tuscany Development: Approve
Q. Locust Grove Utilities Change Order #1 with Civil Survey in
Conjunction with ACHD: Approve
R. Overland Road — Water & Sewer In Conjunction with ACHD
with Civil Survey: Approve
S. Eagle Road — Water & Sewer In Conjunction with ACHD with
Civil Survey: Approve
T. Ten Mile Road Waterline Latecomer Agreement with Lochsa
Falls, LLC: Approve
U. Cross site Sewer Extension Latecomer Agreement with
Lochsa Falls, LLC: Approve
V. Development Agreement: AZ 03-021 Request for reconsideration
for annexation and zoning of 114.52 acres from RUT to R-4 (PD) and
C -G zones for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2 by
Packard Estates Development, LLC — south of East Ustick Road and
east of North Eagle Road: Approve
7-W. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: AZ 04-
017 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 29.69 acres from RUT
to R-4, C -N and L -O zones for proposed Leeshire Subdivision by
SWI Associates, LLC— 5603 N. Locust Grove Road: Prepare
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial
74. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: PP 04-
024 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 89 building lots and
20 common lots on 29.69 acres in proposed R-4, C -N and L-0
zones for proposed Leeshire Subdivision by SWI Associates, LLC
— 5603 N. Locust Grove Road: Prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for Denial
Meridisu City Council Agenda— September 28, 2004 Page 3 o£6
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommmdadoa for disabilities rebled to documents andlm hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 88&4433 at least 48 being prior to the public meeting.
Revised 9-27-04
7-Y. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: CUP 04-
026 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a mixed use Planned
Development consisting of single family residential and
commercial/office uses with reductions to the minimum
requirements for lots size, side yard setbacks and minimum street
frontage for proposed Leeshire Subdivision by SWI Associates,
LLC — 5603 N. Locust Grove Road: Prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for Denial
Z. Insurance Renewal with ICRMP: Approve
6. Department Reports:
A. Police Department — Chief Musser
Recognition of Sgt. Bill Volker for 10 years with the City
of Meridian: Presentation
B. Mayor's Office
Appointment of City Attorney: Bill Nary -- Approve
2. Recognition and Acknowledgment to Gary Smith, Public
Work's Director: Presentation
C. City Attorney — William F. Nichols
1. Report: Presented
7. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
8. FP 04-058 Request for Final Plat approval of 79 single-family residential
building lots and 9 common lots on 16.3 acres in an R-8 zone for
Sutherland Farm Subdivision No. 4 by Sutherland Farm, Inc. — east of
South Eagle Road and south of East Overland Road: Approve
8. Continued Public Hearing from August 24, 2004: Trunk Line Water S
Sewer Assessment Connection and Miscellaneous Fee Proposal:
Prepare Ordinance and Resolution
10. Public Hearing: CUP 04-027 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
daycare facility for up to 150 children in a C -G zone for Primary Colors
Daycare by Primary Colors, Inc. — east of South Eagle Road and south of
East Overland Road: Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law for Approval
Meridian City Council Agenda— September 28, 2004 Page 4 of 6
All materials presented at public meetings shall become properly of the City of Meridian
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clark's Office at 888-4433 at law 49 hours prior to the public meeting.
Revised 9-27-04
11. Public Hearing: CUP 04-030 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
gymnastics center in an I -L zone for Danik Gymnastics by Viktor
Danilovitch — 345 South Adkins Way: Prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for Approval
12. Public Hearing: CUP 04-031 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
retail candle and gift shop in an O -T zone for Kathy Hinshaw (Aromatic
Sensations) by Kathy Hinshaw — 128 East Pine Avenue: Prepare
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval
13. Public Hearing: VAR 04-005 Request for a Variance to the minimum
parking requirements for a retail use in an O -T zone for Kathy Hinshaw
by Kathy Hinshaw — 128 East Pine Avenue: Prepare Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law for Approval
14. Public Hearing: AZ 04-019 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 64.48
acres from RUT to R-8 zone for proposed Ventana Subdivision by G.L.
Voigt Development Company — north of West McMillan on North Meridian
Road: Remand back to the Planning and Zoning Commission
15. Pubic Hearing: PP 04-026 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 234
single-family residential building lots and 16 common lots on 64.48 acres
in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Ventana Subdivision by G.L. Voigt
Development Company — north of West McMillan Road on North Meridian
Road: Remand back to the Planning and Zoning Commission
16. Pubic Hearing: CUP 04-028 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
mixed use Planned Development consisting of single family residential lots
with reductions to the minimum requirements for lot size, street frontage
(including cul-de-sacs) and request to exceed the maximum block length
allowed for proposed Ventana Subdivision by G.L. Voigt Development
Company — north of West McMillan Road on North Meridian Road:
Remand back to the Planning and Zoning Commission
17. Tabled from September 21, 2004: Ordinance No. 04-1101 AZ
03-036 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 19.7 acres from RUT to R-8
zones for proposed Salisbury Subdivision No. 2 by Earl, Mason & Stanfield,
Inc. — south of West Ustick Road and west of North Meridian Road: Approve
18. Ordinance No. 04-1102 : AZ 04-014 Request for Annexation &
Zoning of 30 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for proposed Sienna Creek
Subdivision by Sagewood Development, Inc. — north of West Ustick Road
and east of North Linder Road: Approve
19. Ordinance No. 04-1103 : AZ 03-021 Request for reconsideration
for annexation and zoning of 114.52 acres from RUT to R-4 (PD) and C -G
zones for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2 by Packard
Meridian City Council Agenda— September 28, 2004 Page 5 of 6
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian -
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Revised 9-27-04
Estates Development, LLC — south of East Ustick Road and east of North
Eagle Road: Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda — September 28, 2004 Page 6 of 6
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property ofthe City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 8884433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council Meetina September 28, 2004.
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00
P.M.,Tuesday, September 28, 2004, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Bill Nary, Charlie Rountree,
and Shaun Wardle.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Will Berg, Ann Canning, Brad Watson, Bill Musser, Kenny
Bowers, Gary Smith, Brad Hawkins -Clark, Doug Strong, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Good evening. I'll go ahead and open up our City Council regular meeting.
It's Tuesday, September 28th, at 7:00 o'clock. I'd like to welcome you all here. It looks
like we have some high school government classes going on out there. Thank you for
joining us. And I will ask the city clerk to please call roll.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item two is the pledge of allegiance. We will be led in the pledge tonight by
Rosie and Eli Nary. Please rise.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Steve Moore, with Cherry Lane
Christian Church:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 3 is our community invocation. Please join us or take this
opportunity for a moment of silence. We have Pastor Steve Moore with us from Cherry
Lane Christian Church.
Moore: Our Father God in Heaven, tonight we are grateful for where we live and when
we live and for the freedom that we have, for what we just pledged and the ability to be
able to live in such a place where these stars and stripes remind us of a heritage that
we have that's been given by others. We praise you for directing that. Tonight I pray
especially for this meeting, that what's decided sometimes, God, we lose the big picture
and we realize tonight that specific decisions are going to be made about
neighborhoods and businesses and items for this community. I pray that you would
direct these who will make such decisions, that they would make them in the best
interest of this community. We thank you for their selfless service in this regard.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 2 of 59
Father, we think also especially of the future of this community. I pray that with all the
work that's gone into the application for the Croft Community Center, that you would
bless us and that you would direct that as well, that selection. God, we don't have a
Salvation Army in this community and all the good things that they do and that's just one
aspect, Father, that, from my opinion, it would be so good to have and we ask for your
blessing in that. We pray for -- with our freedoms we pray for those in foreign lands,
particularly in Iraq this very evening that are representing us and protecting us and we
pray for their support and for their protection. We think specifically of Myron Seversen
from this community that's been called to action from our police force. We pray that you
would prepare his family and be with them in what they must adjust to and all the
emotions that are related to that. Watch over them and especially Myron. We thank
you for those that do keep the peace right here in our community and serve so
effectively. Bless them and their families with safety and protection as well, in the name
of Christ, our Savior, I pray, Amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you, Pastor Moore. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor, we do have some -- get my glasses, so I can read it. On our
Consent Agenda, Items A through G, are still active. H through N are omitted. I need a
resolution number for Item O. And items number W, X, Y we would like to move to 7-
W,X,Y on the regular agenda. And with that I would move that we approve the revised
agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve the agenda on No. 4. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of September 7, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of September 7, 2004 City Council Regular
Meeting:
C. Approve Minutes of September 14, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting:
D. Approve Minutes of September 14, 2004 City Council Regular
Meeting:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 04-
009 Request for a Rezone of 16.49 acres from R-4 to R-4, R-8 and
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 3 of 59
L -O zones for Larkspur Subdivision by Larkspur, LLC — 2090,
2190 and 2240 South Meridian Road:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
023 Request for a Preliminary Plat approval for 56 building lots and
6 common lots on 18.94 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for
Larkspur Subdivision by Larkspur, LLC - 2090, 2190 and 2240
South Meridian Road:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-025 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a mixed use
Planned Development consisting of single family residential,
assisted living and office uses with reductions to the minimum
requirements for lot size and street frontage for Larkspur
Subdivision by Larkspur, LLC - 2090, 2190 and 2240 South
Meridian Road:
11
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Findings of Fact and Conclusions of _
04019 Request feF a GeRditienal_
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Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 4 of 59
O. Resolution No. 04445 Amendment to Solid Waste
Collection Rates:
P. Public Pathway Easement for Glacier Springs Subdivision by
Tuscany Development:
Q. Locust Grove Utilities Change Order # 1 with Civil Survey in
Conjunction with ACHD:
R. Overland Road — Water & Sewer In Conjunction with ACHD
with Civil Survey:
S. Eagle Road — Water & Sewer In Conjunction with ACHD with
Civil Survey:
T. Ten Mile Road Waterline Latecomer Agreement with Lochsa
Falls, LLC:
U. Cross site Sewer Extension Latecomer Agreement with
Lochsa Falls, LLC:
V. Development Agreement: AZ 03-021 Request for reconsideration
for annexation and zoning of 114.52 acres from RUT to R-4 (PD) and
C -G zones for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No. 2 by
Packard Estates Development, LLC — south of East Ustick Road and
east of North Eagle Road:
Z. Insurance Renewal with ICRMP:
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, for the Consent Agenda resolution, that number is 04-445.
Bird: Thank you, Madam Mayor. With that, Madam Mayor, I would move that we
approve the Consent Agenda with Items A through G, 0 through V, and remove Items
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 5 of 59
W, X, and Y to 7-W, X, Y and also keep Item Z and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk
to attest on all proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda as
amended. Any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Police Department — Chief Musser
1. Recognition of Sgt. Bill Volker for 10 years with the City
of Meridian:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 6 under Department Reports. Chief.
Musser: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I asked for some time this evening to
be able to recognize Sergeant Bill Volker, who, on the 20th of September of this year,
just a few days ago, officially retired his position with the Meridian Police Department.
However, I asked for recognition in the fact that he has spent ten years with the City of
Meridian and we are now recognizing our employees for the time and service that they
have put in. I find this kind of a melancholy moment, because Bill has been with us for
quite awhile and I have really looked towards this officer in the time that we have had
him here with the department. He chose that date, though, for his retirement for a
specific reason, which I think also should be part of the record and brought to your
attention. Bill served his country, including this community, for a total of 36 years. The
date that he entered in the service and first started wearing a uniform was on
September 20th back when he first entered the United States Marine Corps as a new
recruit. He spent his time in the Marine Corps working through up to the rank of master
gunnery sergeant before he retired out and, then, started a law enforcement career over
in the Canyon County Sheriffs Department. He, then, came tot he City of Meridian
where he worked with us for ten years and I really would like to have that recognition
pass forward to him for that service that he gave to this community and the time and
effort that he's done in general serving in uniform as a member of the Armed Forces
and as a law enforcement officer and that's why I requested to be able to have him here
tonight, so he could receive his recognition as a ten year employee with the City of
Meridian. Bill, if you could come up forward, please.
De Weerd: So, we, with great pride and we very much -- we very much appreciate the
employees we have that serve a great number of years with our community and it is
with mixed emotions -- I missed — I, actually, caught his -- the tail end of his retirement
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 6 of 59
party and to bid him farewell. He has served our community with great dignity and we
appreciate that and it's my privilege to present you with your ten-year certificate and I
think the chief already explained the packet. Okay. And so we will look forward to you
coming back to the office in another way we have got you back in, but thank you, Billy,
you have served our community with great dignity and integrity.
Volker: Thank you.
B. Mayor's Office
Appointment of City Attorney
De Weerd: I got to call you Billy, instead of sergeant on that one. I know. You look
good after 36 holes of golf. Thank you for coming tonight. Okay. Item B, is Mayor's
Office, and it is with great pleasure that I bring to you tonight the name of Bill Nary to be
appointed to City Attomey. I think I have discussed with all of you the merits of bringing
this appointment before you. I touched on it last week, I believe, and I would like,
Council, your confirmation of this appointment.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: With mixed emotions I move that we appoint Bill Nary as our city attorney.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve the appointment of Bill Nary for
our city attorney. Is there any discussion? I'm not asking you.
Nary: Madam Mayor? I will be abstaining from this vote and the record from the last
meeting isn't part of this meeting, so maybe Mr. Bird could say why he has mixed
emotions, so anybody in the audience doesn't wonder why he said that.
Bird: Oh, I would be glad -- Madam Mayor, I would be glad to. We are gaining one of
the smartest young men I knew as our city attorney, who will do us a great job, but we
are also losing one of the best councilmen I have ever served with and I appreciate it.
Nary: Thank you.
Bird: That's my mixed emotions.
De Weerd: And, Mr. Nary, I guess we
Councilmember I very much appreciated
worked well together. We appreciated
entertaining. So, we are --
all go into this with mixed emotions. As a
serving with you. I felt that the whole team
your humor and it sometimes was very
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 7 of 59
Nary: Sometimes?
De Weerd: Yeah. Every week was a new surprise. But we appreciated the insight that
you added to our discussions. I always felt that the projects were better projects
because of a lot of your input. So, as a Council member and now as Mayor, that you
will leave a void and I hope that as we get letters from the community who have an
interest in filling your position, that we are able to fill your seat with, again, a diverse
person that can bring a unique perspective that you certainly will be missed in. But it is
with great pleasure that we gain a great asset to our community in terms of your
expertise, your experience, your passion for our community as our city attorney. So,
mixed emotions, Mr. Bird, I can certainly understand that, but our community will
continue to benefit from your involvement and the passion that you bring to whatever
you do.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. As most politicians, you
can't let the moment go by without saying something. I agree, I mean there is mixed
emotions with me. I appreciate my family is here tonight, my wife and some of my
children are here, and that's very exciting to me for them to be here and to have the
people in your community elect you to be their representative and to sit up in this
Council is a privilege that only few people get to know and I have enjoyed every
moment of it. It has been incredibly fun, more fun than I ever imagined it would be. I
always said to folks that I hope when people left the meeting they didn't wonder what I
was thinking and I'm pretty sure most people -- Mr. McKinnon is nodding his head. I
think most people would say that's probably true. Most times I think people knew what I
thought. This opportunity for this town that I lived in for almost 20 years, to serve now in
a daily capacity as part of the staff for the city is very exciting to me. It's a great place to
live, it's the hometown to my family now, this has been a wonderful opportunity and I
couldn't let it go by. But the last thing I want to say on this point is having Bill Nichols
precede me is what makes this job so easy to move into. Bill Nichols has been just an
incredibly admirable and excellent city attorney for this city and I feel very very honored
to follow him in doing this and I think this job is a whole lot easier to do because of him
and I appreciate him very much and he will be on my speed dial, I think I'll have the
instant messenger on the computer, so I can make sure to ask him when I'm not so
sure, but this is a very exciting time for me and for my family. So, thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there any further discussion before I ask the clerk to, please,
call roll?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I will shorten our open mike session that we had earlier at pre -Council, but
just to express my appreciation, too. It's been my pleasure to work with Bill this past
nine months and appreciate his efforts in the city and I recognize the hard decision that
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 8 of 59
he's making and I think it's going to be a great great move for us as a Council and as a
city and, Bill, welcome aboard in your new capacity.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I also agree with all the comments made and I appreciate all
the service that Bill has given this community, but I think in a growing community like
Meridian, something that we have done in the past and continue to do is when we grow
and we have an opportunity, we look to our citizens and we look to those that have
served this community to take us forward and Bill's new position in this city I think is fit
very well for him and I'm proud to be part of the decision and to make a sacrifice on the
Council, but to help the city by bringing one of our best into the city administration. So, I
appreciate your service, Bill.
Nary: Thank you
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, abstain.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSTAIN.
De Weerd: Well, congratulations, Mr. Nary
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: He will take office on October 1st. Mr. Nary, if you will, please, come down
here. I would like to present you a token of our appreciation. It's a plaque to that -- that
I'm sure you will hang on your new office wall with great pride, presented in appreciation
for your contribution and service to the City of Meridian as Councilman from January
2002 through September 2004. The City of Meridian greatly appreciates your
dedication and commitment to serve the city and community. Thank you for your
leadership and involvement in our community.
Nary: Thank you. That's really nice.
2. Recognition of Acknowledgment of Gary Smith, Public
Work's Director
De Weerd: Thank you. So, I will go ahead and talk about our next -- we have had the
last week of being able to celebrate Gary Smith and his years of service to the City of
Meridian. You know, this seems to be a celebration of retirement or separations and
Gary has served our community for over 20 years and when you look at the growth and
how much Meridian has changed over this 20 year period of time, I'm sure you can
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 9 of 59
really recognize the mark that our Public Works director has had on our community and
certainly the legacy that he leaves the City of Meridian through his leadership. We did
want to take this opportunity at City Council to recognize him one last time. His last day
is on Thursday, but we do have two things for you, Gary, if you will, please, come
forward. First, you know, this very treasured name plate. We thought about reusing it,
because we are very frugal with the taxpayer dollars, but we did -- since you had 20
years of service with us we thought it would be more appropriate hanging on the walls
of your home. Now, this is not a gun. We know about your passion for fishing and we
do think that when people retire they should enjoy a leisurely life outside of volunteering
for the City of Meridian, which I'm sure you will do, but we would like to present this gift
to you as just a small token, again, of our appreciation for your great work and
leadership.
C. City Attorney —William F. Nichols
1. Report:
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Nichols has already jumped forward to the next agenda
item.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, I have the privilege of speaking before you tonight. I want to
let you know and let the public know that I had asked the Mayor and Council for the
privilege -- a point of personal privilege to address the Mayor and Council in a meeting
and so they graciously allowed me to do that and the big book that I brought with me is
not my speech. Thank you, Mayor and Council for the opportunity to present a final
report to you. Since 1998 the firm of White Peterson has served as the attorneys for the
City of Meridian. The initial contract and subsequent renewals through November 1 st,
2002, included all of the city's legal services, including criminal prosecution. Since
November 1, 2002, our contract has been for civil matters only. It has been our
privilege and our pleasure to act as the attorneys for the city. When the Mayor
announced her decision to combine the city attorney duties and human resources
director into one position, I reiterated to her what had been our pledge and our
longstanding policy, which was when the city decided to take legal services in-house,
we would do what we could to assist in that transition and to make it work. We knew
the day would come when you would bring services back in-house. We just kind of mis-
guessed when it would happen a little bit. We thought you needed more room before
you did that. But that's forthcoming and I expect to see a new city hall soon. I also
have to tell you that I anticipated your appointment of Bill Nary as city attorney by about
two years, because when I was cleaning out our Meridian office two years ago, I came
across this old Meridian codebook. I kept it, because I believed one day Bill Nary would
be Meridian's city attorney. This volume is the codebook that Bill Nary used as Meridian
city prosecutor when he worked for Ambrose, Fitzgerald, and Crookston. I return it to
him today as your new city attorney. I t s ays right h ere: C ity O rdinances, Meridian,
Idaho, Bill Nary, city prosecutor. And that's one less thing in my office. I would like to
take this opportunity to review some of the accomplishments and projects we have been
involved in as your attorneys. In the finance department we assisted the municipal
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 10 of 59
utility system with a number of matters. Lots of questions about customer bankruptcies,
developing and drafting third party billing directives, policies, and forms and matters
associated with the internal audit that was done. We drafted the ordinance for the new
finance director position when that was created. Knowing that this position, as has
proved true with Stacy Kilchenmann, would improve the financial condition of the city
and particularly budgetary processes. And the first budget I sat through was 2000 and
that was no fun at all. We had this place full of people and everybody was angry and ill-
informed a nd it just was not -- not any fun a nd it was after that the f inance director
position was created and brought a lot more order and financial soundness to the city
and you're to be congratulated for that forward thinking. In the clerk's office we worked
a lot with Will Berg and his staff trying to get the right documents to the right people at
the right time. We assisted in public record requests, questions involving a variety of
matters from licensing's to notice issues and perhaps, most importantly, assisted with
the complete city code revision that was completed in 1999 and Councilman Rountree
will remember and Councilman Bird, that was a major major effort. In the Planning and
Zoning Department we have had perhaps our greatest involvement. We improved form
and substance of the findings for the land u se decisions. Council expected and we
fulfilled a turn around time for complex findings, which accurately and completely
reflected the Council's decisions on numerous land use matters. Of the hundreds of
sets of findings that we prepared, very few were not completed in the targeted two-week
turnaround time from decision to adoption. Where the decision was made on a
Tuesday night, the documents were prepared by one week from the following Thursday,
so that they would be prepared and ready for the following Tuesday for adoption. We
improved the use of development agreements. There were previously development
agreements that were used by the city, but they were most often drafted by the
developers and no offense to my friend Joann Butler who is sitting in the audience, they
were usually drafted by the developer's lawyers. Sometimes they weren't drafted at all
and, as a consequence, things slipped through the cracks terribly. We worked with the
clerk's office to develop a process where no annexation or rezone would occur until the
signed development agreement had been returned and Will's staff, particularly, watches
out for t hat d iligently and t hey a re t o be c ongratulated for t hat. It m ekes t hings j ust
much better. We successfully defended every judicial review lawsuit brought against
the city, which challenged a land use decision, and perhaps, more importantly, in the
last four years I can only remember one case being filed and none for over two years.
We believe that's because we have helped you and your staff make good decisions that
are adequately supported by the record. We've also assisted the planning department
in major revisions to the landscape ordinance, the sign ordinance, and the development
of a cell tower ordinance. We drafted and completed documentation to establish the
Meridian Development Corporation and we have answered innumerable -- and I do
mean innumerable phone calls and e-mails for advice and assistance on planning
matters. In the fire department we assisted the fire chief and his deputies by working on
matters related to the construction of fire stations two and three and we have even
commented on the documents for the architect on station four that's now in the planning
stages. We reviewed and prepared the ordinance adopting the International Fire Code.
We assisted the department with collective bargaining and union matters. Also with
mutual aid agreements, surplus property donations, and sales and just recently, coming
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 11 of 59
before you soon, will be an Ada County Emergency Medical Services stationing
agreement, which will allow for ambulances and their crews to be stationed in your fire
stations, which will improve your citizen safety. And that's a great thing for this city. In
the parks department we worked closely with staff on acquisition of additional parkland
and we developed a form agreement for the community partnerships for park
development that's used by groups such as Meridian Youth Baseball and Adventure
Island Playground. We assisted in the adoption of an urban forestry ordinance, updated
the park impact fee ordinance and completed negotiations for -- of a master pathway
agreement with Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District. And as we all know, they were on
the mountain when Moses got the Ten Commandments, so it was not an easy task. In
the police department during the term of our prosecution of city misdemeanor offenses
we had our ups and downs, but one thing that we did better than anybody else is we
achieved the greatest collection of court revenue in the history of the City of Meridian.
In the year before we got the contract the city collected approximately 139,000 dollars in
court revenue. In the last year of our contract total court revenues received were
334,000 dollars. Actual court revenues for this current fiscal year that's about to end are
likely to be approximately what we collected for the 99-2000 year. The new city
attorney, one of your challenges is going to be to work with your former employer to find
out why, with more police officers and presumably more tickets, court revenues are
down. Probably our greatest accomplishment for the police department, though, was
our involvement to help get the brand new police station. It was our attorneys who
prepared, filed, and argued the judicial confirmation suit, which allowed the city to build
the police station with the financing that did not require going to the voters for additional
taxes. And Councilman Bird was particularly involved in that with a commitment to be
able to do it and not raise taxes to do it and that building will be paid sooner than not
and your community is so much better for it. We also assisted the department with a
police manual, critical incident task force agreements, and a variety of other matters. In
human resources we assisted your staff and an outside consultant in a complete
revision of the citys personnel policies. It was our experience in employment law that
allowed us to target some things in those policies to give you and your directors
effective tools to manage your work force. Other attorneys that have reviewed those
employment policies have told us that they are among the best that they have seen and
we take some pride in that. In addition, we have investigated personnel issues for you,
we have done other things in human resources, and we especially appreciated all of the
help we got from department directors in those different matters. In public works we
helped draft staff -- your staff draft standardized water and sewer easement forms, so
we weren't reinventing the wheel every time they went out to get an easement. We
assisted the staff in the transition from a paradigm of developer financed infrastructure
to one where the city drove where it was going to go and how it was going to be
constructed and that was a major shift. Gary Smith lamented the day that he had to pay
for an easement, because they had always been given in the past, but that's part of the
maturing of this community, is things have to be done a little differently than the way
they were before. We helped with water and sewer reassessments and collections, the
development of the sewer pretreatment ordinance, the application for EPA certification
of the pretreatment program. We worked on the latecomer agreements and that was no
small task. We also standardized those agreements and, particularly, worked on
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 12 of 59
aspects that would make those easier to collect, collecting them quicker rather than
later. We have reviewed numerous consultant contracts and through persistence I think
we have finally begun to wean the consulting engineers away from blanket liability
limitations that they like to put in those. We also during our tenure had one bid protest.
I think it was probably -- maybe the only one you have ever had and we had to develop
a p rocess a nd a p rocedure for you to h ear t hose. The p arties i nvolved f elt t hat t he
process was fair and we did that for you. We prepared ordinances to adopt the
International Building Code and updated plumbing, electrical, and mechanical codes
and we developed better contracts for your independent contractor inspector services.
In short, we have raised the bar for providing legal services to the City of Meridian. We
believe the quality of our service, the accuracy of the information and advice that was
given, the completeness of that advice and related documentation, the timeliness of
services, the efficiency with which we rendered them and the forward-looking common
sense approach that we used, leaves the city's legal affairs on a solid footing for the
future and we feel good about that. I'd like to publicly acknowledge those individuals in
our firm that have assisted the city staff and made this raising of the bar possible. Chris
Nye successfully defended every judicial review challenge and he also provided public
works staff with advice regarding potential imminent domain matters. Julie Fisher was
outstanding in her advice and counsel in investigations for the human resources
department and the assistance that she gave to those affected departments that had to
contact HR. Jill Holinka and Chris Gabbert attended many late night sessions of the
Planning and Zoning Commission. William Gigray, lll, put in a tremendous amount of
work from the outset of the contract through February 2000, which work allowed me to
operate from a solid foundation. And Terry White, our senior partner, has such a
tremendous background in municipal law that I could shortcut research every time, but
just going to him and asking the question and that was a great assistance to me and to
the city. And, lastly, I'd like to acknowledge Marlene St. George, a legal assistant in our
office, who is a tremendous worker, she's diligent and conscientious to a fault. Most of
the voluminous document preparation that we had to do was done by her and she made
sure things got where they had to be when they had to be there. I'd also like to note
that our tenure was marked by our ability as a firm to work cooperatively with all the
staff past and present, as well as the other parties on this public stage, such as
governmental entities and members of the development community. Cooperation does
not mean unnecessary compromise, but it means advocating for the city's position in
such a way that there is a focus on results and not on personalities or egos and we
believe we have done that well. I'd also like to take this opportunity, especially, though,
to express my thanks to city for items that I can only characterize as personal growth for
me. I personally attended over 200 Council meetings since February 2000 and, thus,
have had a chance to see a vibrant and growing community and see some of the best
planners, the best attorneys, and best engineers to present and defend their projects. I
got paid to go to school. It was tremendous. As your city attorney I was also involved
with the Association of Idaho Cities and testified before the legislature and assisted in
legislative drafting. I was able to make presentations to AIC and the Idaho Municipal
Attorneys Association. B eing here allowed me to build upon personal strengths and
challenged me in new ways. When I came here five years ago to the firm, I had zero
Idaho municipal experience. With over 200 meetings, in some communities that's like
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 13 of 59
ten year's worth. To the Mayor and this City Council and the past Mayor and City
Councils, I thank you for the opportunity that we had and that I had to serve. To the
department directors and their staff let me express my admiration to you, for you are
remarkable for your dedication to this city. The amount of work you do and what you
achieve with the scarce resources that are available is absolutely outstanding. It is a
privilege to work alongside such fine people. I leave the Mayor and Council with these
challenges: You have the challenge of siting a new City Hall and, hopefully, in a
downtown area and finding a way to finance it. I encourage you to let your citizens
know of the critical need for space consolidation of city departments in order to more
efficiently utilize taxpayer dollars. You will be reviewing and adopting a new zoning
ordinance and related procedures. All of these present new challenges to you, because
the new procedures may ask the Council to give up some of that control you had over
individual developments. You will also be reviewing coordinated land use and
transportation plans drafted by Compass's consultant and also by the Freilick group.
These last two matters I can't tell you what an extraordinary opportunity for Meridian
and other Ada County governments this is, because you have the opportunity to create
something really unique. I challenge you to consider taking customer service to a
greater level and that is to take customer service beyond the customers that you see at
the counter and consider those customers who are not yet born. Particularly, with land
use decisions, those decisions you make today will impact the next century and beyond.
It's easy to consider the concerns of the developer and the concerns of the neighbors, it
is more difficult to consider how the decision may affect future generations, but there is
no greater perspective than that, because none of your decisions has such a long
lasting effect as those which affect how your community is built. So, I encourage you to
think of customer service in those ways. My challenge to your new city attorney is to
take the foundation of excellence that we have established and exceed it and I have
every expectation that you will do your best to do that, because I know you would
expect nothing less of yourself. I also ask the Council and the Mayor to be willing to
invest the resources it takes make in-house counsel effective. This position combines
the city attorney with the human resources director. As the city grows, it must add new
employees and as it does the human resources function becomes more important. I
have no doubt that Bill Nary will be frugal with the budget that you have provided him.
At the same time, if the work requires more resources, I challenge you to find those.
And with regard to a new City Hall and additional parkland, I ask that you consider not
being afraid to ask the voters for funding. Your mill levy is abnormally low. You have
refrained from going to the voters for additional funds out of respect for the demands
placed upon t he Meridian S chool District and its n eed for capital with which to build
buildings, even though many of those students don't reside in your city limits. You have
proven yourselves fiscal conservatives and good stewards of the taxpayers dollars.
That entitles you to consider asking them for special needs. In conclusion, thank you
for this opportunity to address you one last time. Please know that my time spent as
your city attorney will always be one of the highlights of my professional career. May
God richly bless the city, its public servants, and those who have the privilege to live
and work here. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 14 of 59
De Weerd: Now, Mr. Nichols, we did have the privilege of -- or it was our right to cross-
examine you or -- Council, do you have any questions for that extraordinarily long
presentation?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I don't have any questions, I just want to make a statement that -- and I think this -
- everybody in the city feels this way. Not only the employees and the elected officials,
but also our taxpayers. Bill is not only a top notch attorney, but he is ten times a better
person. I got to know this a year ago when I was laid up with a little bit of illness and he
is -- I don't know. He is the epitome of a gentleman and I can't go any -- I mean I just --
I don't know what more you could say about this guy. They just don't make them any
better. That's all I can say.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols, I know you -- I could not get away without saying a few words
myself and since I get to chair this meeting, no one can stop me. You know, I had the
privilege of serving most of my whole term as City Council under your legal advice and it
has been greatly appreciated. If there is anyone that -- that could -- I don't know if rival
is the right thing, but could be someone I could get very excited about having as our city
attorney is you and I know you just gave us a nice presentation of what your firm has
done. To me, its what you have done. You have been the face of White Peterson, you
have been our City Attorney. You have served with great patience with us and, yes,
you have steered us a couple of times when maybe we were going down the wrong
path, and, yes, I agree that you have protected our community's interest through your
wisdom, your great advice, and your incredible stature. We appreciate your integrity
and the leadership that you have provided our city and, yeah, there is a time when
Meridian gets to that point where we need the day-to-day face on our legal issues, but
you have always been there for our community and, you know, we are eternally grateful
for the leadership you have provided and I do have a couple of things to give you as
well. Its just our small token. Certainly, we could never tell you how much we
appreciate what you have done for our community, but this, again, is presented to you
in appreciation for your dedication and your service and you have been our city
attorney. We don't think of this as a firm. It has been you. As city attorney from
February 2000 through September 2004, the Mayor and City Council and city staff and
the City of Meridian greatly appreciate your commitment to serve the city and
community. Thank you for the knowledge, skills, leadership, and expertise that you
provided us.
Nichols: Thank you. Thank you, Council.
Item 7: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
W. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: AZ 04-
017 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 29.69 acres from RUT
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 15 of 59
to R-4, C -N and L -O zones for proposed Leeshire Subdivision by
SWI Associates, LLC— 5603 N. Locust Grove Road:
X. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: PP 04-
024 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 89 building lots and
20 common lots on 29.69 acres in proposed R-4, C -N and L -O
zones for proposed Leeshire Subdivision by SWI Associates, LLC
— 5603 N. Locust Grove Road:
Y. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial: CUP 04-
026 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a mixed use Planned
Development consisting of single family residential and
commercial/office uses with reductions to the minimum
requirements for lots size, side yard setbacks and minimum street
frontage for proposed Leeshire Subdivision by SWI Associates,
LLC — 5603 N. Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Before these students think that all we do is talk and never get down
to city business, Council, do you have any other comments that you would wish to share
at this time? We can always wait until the end of our meeting. Okay. Thank you
again, Mr. Nichols. Okay. Item 7, items moved from the Consent Agenda were W, X,
and Y on Leeshire Subdivision. I believe that this was moved onto this part for a
Council discussion.
Berg: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Berg.
Berg: Hopefully, the Council in your packets -- actually, excuse me, it was probably
handed to you later. There is a letter for request from the applicants concerning this
project and that's why you're addressing it on the Consent -- or on Item 7.
De Weerd: Mr. Attorney.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the findings are not yet prepared, but
you did receive a letter from the applicant requesting that this matter be reconsidered,
so you have the option if you vote for reconsideration, how you want to structure that. If
you vote to deny reconsideration, then, we will finish the findings for denial and submit
those.
De Weerd: Okay. Council?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 16 of 59
Nary: I guess in reading the letter from -- provided by Mrs. Butler on this matter, I think
that -- and I think we received a subsequent letter from some of the neighbors as well, I
guess, in opposition to this, but it appears that what's being requested is because we
didn't provide enough clarity as to our reason for denial and although I don't have -- as
Mr. Nichols stated, we don't have the findings in front of us, I thought we did. So, I
guess I don't have any reason for -- at least for myself to move to reconsider, but,
certainly, if one of the other Council members wants to do that, but I think we did
provide a tremendous amount of discussion on this project and we had a tremendous
amount of discussion about the reasons for denial. So, I guess I'll leave it to the rest of
the Council, but I think we did cover the things that have been addressed in Mrs.
Butler's letter.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If that's in the form of a motion, I would second that.
Nary: Well, I think the request is for reconsideration. I wasn't going to make a motion to
reconsider, so I don't know that we need to take action.
Rountree: We don't have to take action, then.
Nary: Unless someone wants to make that motion to reconsider it, we can simply ask
that the findings be brought forward --
Rountree: To be finalized.
Nary: -- to be finalized.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a question for Mr. Nichols. If we vote to reconsider, could
at that point a motion to remand the items to Planning and Zoning be made subsequent
-- subsequently?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if the motion to reconsider was one to
remand, rather than deny, that's an acceptable motion. Typically, though, remands
include either issues that have to be redone or reviewed by the Commission, not just a
remand of the same project back. So, if you do reconsider and want to remand it for
changes to the development that you believe would make it acceptable, then, you need
to spell those out in a motion.
De Weerd: Does that answer your question?
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 17 of 59
Wardle: Yes. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further comments or discussion? Okay. Do I have a motion to
-- I guess either, one, move forward with the findings from the attorney or the second
option would be to approve reconsidering this application.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move that we direct the city attorney to prepare the findings for denial that
has been previously moved by this Council and bring them forth in due course.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to instruct the attorney to bring
forward the findings of denial. Is there any further discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Wardle, nay; Nary, yea.
Berg: Madam Mayor, we have a tie vote.
De Weerd: Aye.
Berg: Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. TWO NAYS. MAYOR AYE.
Item 8: FP 04-058 Request for Final Plat approval of 79 single-family residential
building lots and 9 common lots on 16.3 acres in an R-8 zone for
Sutherland Farm Subdivision No. 4 by Sutherland Farm, Inc. — east of
South Eagle Road and south of East Overland Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 8 is FP 04-058. Staff.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a final plat request for
Sutherland Farms No. 4. It's a 79 lot single-family residential subdivision. It is currently
zoned R-4, but they -- as they went through the process they did request a rezone to R-
8. This is the approved preliminary plat. Apparently, I don't have the -- apparently, this
is the final plat and I don't have the approved preliminary plat. My new administrative
assistant is still figuring out what I like on my presentations. Sorry about that. And the
final plat is in substantial compliance with the approved preliminary plat. However,
there is one outstanding issue. The rezone ordinance that would make this R-8 zoning
has not yet been done by the Council. It has been approved. There is a difficulty --
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 18 of 59
they can't publish the ordinance, because it references the Sutherland Farms No. 3 and
because the final plat for Sutherland Farms No. 3 has not yet been recorded, we don't
have the book and page number from that recording to reference in our ordinance. So,
therefore, we have not done the official ordinance. Normally, we do not bring final plats
to you until they have the proper zoning and, usually, there is annexation tied to it as
well, but in this case it's just the zoning. The Process Improvement Group has raised
this as an issue, so we decided to go ahead and raise it as an issue tonight for Council.
It's been kind of just an administrative tool on staffs part to keep track of these things,
but there is -- the Process Improvement Group has requested that of staff to move the
final plat and the final plat construction drawings forward before some of these
ordinances or the development agreement have been finalized, but that the city
engineer's signature on the final plat -- that at that time all those ordinances had to be
done. I hope I made myself clear on that one, but -- okay. I'll try again. Right now the
current process has been we don't bring the final plat to you until the ordinance and the
development agreement are done. The Process Improvement Group has asked that
instead of making it your review of the final plat, that those ordinances and that
development a greement n eed to b e d one b efore t he c ity a ngineer s igns o n t he p lat.
This would allow them to bring the final plat forward, get your review, get started on the
construction drawings -- it just cuts out about a -- they say four week period, somewhere
from two to four weeks that they are just sitting on their drawings, that they can't move
forward, because they are just waiting for ordinances to go through. So, did that explain
it a little better this time -- that time? Okay. I got a nod from the end of the row. So,
that's the only issue outstanding on this plat, is just that the ordinance has not been
done. We could make it a condition that the rezone needs to be in effect prior to the city
engineer's signature on the final plat, if you want to proceed that way.
De Weerd: I guess, Anna, my question would be what is -- what delays the ordinance
and in their estimation it takes four weeks. Oftentimes, it's because we are waiting for
their signature on the development agreement.
Canning: I would agree that it's a two-sided reason and in this particular case it's
nothing that staff has to do with it, it's just how this was worded. It relies on the final plat
for Sutherland Farms No. 3 being recorded. And there can be similar instances to that
and it's -- it's just a process that they feel can be done concurrent with staff reviewing
the construction plans for the final plats and the final plat reviewing going forward. Not
that it needs to get done, not that there is discussion that needs to go on both ways, it's
just they would like for the processes to be concurrent, rather than serial.
De Weerd: Mr. Berg, do you have any comments?
Berg: Yes, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I don't remember very many times
this has happened, but what really pulled the trigger was there was some blanks on the
ordinance that referred to another plat that should have been recorded prior to the
ordinance and that's why we can't even take it to the recorder's office, because the
recorder's office would say, sorry, you don't have these blanks filled in. I know we have
a -- kind of a process, development agreement signed, ordinance approved, final plat,
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 19 of 59
unless there is other instances, I don't know, but that's why this particular one is held
up. I don't know of the other --
De Weerd: Is there a particular reason why it has to be in that order?
Canning: I have not heard any particular reason. I think that it was a way to make sure
that the process gets done. I mean from a clerical standpoint it's probably easier to do
things sequentially, but they have asked that we be able to do some of these things
concurrently, so that they can get moving forward on their construction plans.
De Weerd: But are there going to be certain things that could possibly fall through the
cracks by not doing it in the order that we currently are doing it?
Canning: The issue is just really the rezone and the city engineer needs to make sure
that the rezone and the development agreement are signed before he signs the plat,
so --
De Weerd: Well, I guess, Anna, I mean more in general as well.
Canning: I think that's the only concern, is that those documents aren't in place and I
don't know the whole Kodiak situation, don't want to know the whole Kodiak situation,
but -- I mean I think that that was one instance where the development agreement didn't
get signed or something like that, so I think that there are -- and I don't know if that was
why this process is in place or not, but I knew that that was a similar issue where
something snuck through, is my understanding, or one part went forward while the other
didn't and so there is that risk, but --
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols, do you have anything you would like to add?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Anna, what does it take to fix the ordinance? Is it because the
blanks are in part of the legal description, which refers to that other subdivision plat?
Canning: In this particular case I think that that is the instance. We ran into this issue a
little late today and the developer's rep was in a honeymoon in Mexico, so we had a
hard time tracking down the right people to answer the question. There is someone
from JUB in the audience, I think he's tried to -- there he is. He's tried to do what
research he can today, but I think that if we needed to on this particular one, then, we
could go ahead and maybe get a different legal description in there, so that they could
go forward with this. I guess it's just -- it seemed like a good opportunity to raise this
question, because it gets asked at least once a week to my staff, you know, why can't
we return this and I'm sure it gets asked of public works staff on a very regular basis, so
Nichols: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 20 of 59
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, based upon the fact that it's just in the
legal description and in this one particular case if Council wishes to approve the
preliminary plat and the order contains a requirement that the rezone ordinance be
approved before the city engineer affixes his signature to the plat, that's probably an
adequate safeguard in this particular case. The ordinance in question was sent out in
late June, so it's over three months ago that the ordinance was prepared. So, we would
have had adequate time to fix it if -- if we would have known what the problem was and
just -- just missed it is where that's at. As far part of your usual processes, I would say
to you that you -- the reason we do the development agreements before the rezone
ordinances or the annexation ordinances are recorded is it removes many of the so-
called takings issues and that keeps you out of the court and keeps money better spent
than spending it on lawyers. So, I -- I would encourage you to -- if, in looking at any of
these processes and making improvements on them, to not compromise that part of it
and I think there is -- the only time I can think where it might make an issue, Anna, on
timing is that short plats, the preliminary/final plats that they bring forward in connection
with an annexation, but in that one they would be ready to go and go to their
construction drawings and holding up on an annexation ordinance or that sort of thing,
but usually with -- once the preliminary plat's approved, it takes them some months
before they get the final plat back and we usually have those ordinances ready to go if
they have signed the development agreement. So, I don't -- I don't understand -- and
maybe that's just my ignorance, I don't know the delay. But in this particular case I think
you can work around it.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Does the applicant have anything to add? Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council should have mentioned that the
applicant is in agreement with the conditions of the approval as noted in the staff report.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I agree with the advice that Mr. Nichols has given us on this specific instance
and certainly think t hat the Process Improvement G roup should look at that issue in
specific i nstances w here s ome o f o ur p rocesses c ould b e fixed. A nd w ith t hat I will
move that we approve FP 04-058, request for final plat Sutherland Farms Subdivision
No. 4 and to include a condition that the rezone ordinance must be approved before the
city engineer's signature on the final plat.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 21 of 59
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 8 with the items
stated. Is there any further discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from August 24, 2004: Trunk Line Water &
Sewer Assessment, Connection and Miscellaneous Fee Proposal:
Continue
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 9 is a continued Public Hearing from August 24th on the
trunk line water and sewer assessments. I will open this Public Hearing and ask for
staff comment.
Watson: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council Members. I trust that you have a copy
of a memo dated 9123 that I sent to you. It was a cover sheet for a packet of information
sent to you with revised calculations on an assessment fee update. It also contained
cleaned up proposed water and sewer ordinances and, thirdly, a list of all fees being
proposed either as updates or new fees. The main topic of conversation was that this
hearing process started in May, they were presented to two different groups at BCA, the
developer's council and the builder's council. I received a lot of interesting feedback
from b oth g roups. I n J my you a uthorized m e to contract w ith a nvironmental f inance
group to do a technical review of this. I believe you do have a copy of that report,
maybe in your packets. Its not in this particular one. The succinct summary of his
evaluation was that is -- well, it was a good news, bad news evaluation. The system
development fee that I had previously proposed was not something that he felt was well
founded. That was the bad news. The good news was that I had undervalued what the
assessment fees should be based on his experience from working with other
municipalities and utilities around the country. So, I went back over the last month and
recalculated in accordance with his recommendations and the final proposed updated
fees for wastewater are a total of 2,226 dollars per ERU per equivalent residential unit,
up from 1,580 dollars, and for water the total updated assessment fee would -- is
proposed to be 1,463 dollars versus the 704 dollar charge per ERU it has been
previously. These are simply the assessment fees calculated, essentially, the same as
they were in '96. The one thing I do want to point out is that all of this is very much
computer spread sheet based now, so that when we get the information from finance
they can be updated very quickly. It has been a struggle in the past to get all of the
asset information necessary to make this calculation, until probably three or four years
ago when I started getting that consistently from Rita and we have fine-tuned it over the
years to the point where it's very very easy to plug in now. So, I think this will be very
easy to at least evaluate annually a nd, hopefully, we can u pdate this a nd avoid any
large increases as this is. This was last updated in 1996, so that's the major thrust of
this proposal. The second thing as I noted in the memo is an update -- complete update
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 22 of 59
of the water -sewer ordinances. These not only address fees, but the way we do day-to-
day business. Gary and I and several other members of the public works staff have
kept notes over the years of everything that doesn't work or is just stupid or really needs
modernized. I'm sorry; I have to digress just for a second. The water superintendent
previously has been designated as the one to sound the all clear call when there is no
longer a fire -- a fire call and they can go back to using water and Rick Clinton, our
water superintendent was very curious as to how he was supposed to do that. So, we
deleted that from the ordinance. There were several others regarding livestock -- just
weird ones. But those have been modernized, so we were hoping that those can go to
ordinance here very soon. And the third point of this proposal is to update some other
fees and institute some new fees and those are all listed in the sheet entitled 2004 City
of Meridian Water and Sewer Fee Update, with a May 4th, 2004, date and revised
9/8/04. The revised ordinances, I believe, provide for the implementation of all of these
fees and I may need some help from Mr. Nichols on exactly how those new fees will be
implemented, whether by resolution. I have written the ordinances to provide for these
new fees to be set by resolution of the City Council. So, there may be another step
here that I'm -- that we will need to go through. With that I will be happy to answer any
questions and take any direction you want to give me.
De Weerd: Well, Mr. Watson, I guess first I'm shocked that our water superintendent
isn't present to yell that and I don't know if Council would like to see it deleted or not.
Mr. Attorney -- Mr. Nichols, he did have a question as to what the appropriate next steps
are. Could you outline that for us?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, with regard to the notice of the
hearing, the initial hearing on these fee increases and so forth, did we have -- Will, can
you tell me did we have these numbers -- these are new numbers, aren't they? It
sounds like they were revised from the consultant's report.
Watson: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Mr. Nichols, the third sheet that had the
long laundry list of different fees, those have been in there since the beginning, all of
those types of fees. The actual amount of just the assessment fee for water and sewer
have been revised I believe downwards since the initial proposal in May. Yes, those
figures have been changed.
Nichols: But both of those figures are now less than what was published?
Watson: Yes. For wastewater the total -- the total fee for wastewater was previously
proposed at 2,390 dollars. This proposal has it at 2,226 dollars. For water the total fee
was proposed at 1,524 and this revised proposal has it at 1,463.
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nichols
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 23 of 59
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe that there has been
adequate notice published and you have continued these hearings to get this additional
information and because those numbers are less than what was published, you should
be okay as far as the state statute goes. The usual process would be to adopt the fees
by resolution. The specific resolution sets out those fees. The one question I have in
my mind is whether the new ordinances need to be in place first before you do that. If
there are new fees reflected in the schedule that are contingent upon the new
ordinance, then, the ordinance has to come first. If there are fees that are already in the
existing ordinance and the changes are in procedures or they are in titles or the
elimination of t he a 11 clear signal and such, then, you could adopt the fee resolution
before you adopt the changes to the water and sewer ordinances. And I have to say I
haven't looked at the proposed new ordinances in great enough detail to tell you which
of those cases exist.
Watson: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Watson.
Watson: There are several of these fees that are new that I specifically changed the
ordinances for, so rather than -- I guess depending on the timeline, I would rather do it
all in one fell swoop, rather than trying to piecemeal some of these together. There are
probably three to four of these that are new, but -- I can identify those, bring them back
next week, so that we can do them in two separate processes or whatever you would
like.
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think, Brad, you have revised the
code sections, but what you have are not draft ordinances, and so -- at least as I looked
at it. So, you would need to have a draft -- those need to be put into ordinance form, so
that, then, they can be placed in code. If we can do it before the end of business on
Thursday, we will try to get that in ordinance form with appropriate summaries. If not, I
don't -- I don't think it will take too much work to get that in form to where you can have
them that way. The resolution itself also needs to set out the specific fees -- and, again,
part of what you're talking about doing is what you have done with the data and that is
to get a format to where you just simply plug in the new fees. So, the resolution would
be drafted in that fashion as well.
De Weerd: Well, Mr. Nichols, we have great confidence in what you can do in two days.
Nichols; I will try. So, Madam Mayor, Brad, if you can send that to me in Word format,
e-mail it to me, that will be greatly helpful.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 24 of 59
De Weerd: So, Mr. Nichols, do you think we should just continue this for one week or
do we need to continue it for two?
Rountree: Or can we close it with a motion to move forward with ordinance and
resolution?
Bird: Why can't we do that?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, you can close the Public Hearing and direct that the ordinance
be -- and resolution be prepared in accordance with the findings or Brad's
recommendations, if there is no other public testimony on the fee.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to testify on this issue?
Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Seeing no further testimony, I move that we close the Public Hearing for Item
No. 9.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close Item No. 9. All those in favor say
aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we instruct legal counsel to move forward with the drafting of
ordinance for the trunk line water and sewer assessment and subsequent resolution for
fees.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to move forward on Item No. 9. Any further
discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 25 of 59
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Public Hearing: CUP 04-027 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
daycare facility for up to 150 children in a C -G zone for Primary Colors
Daycare by Primary Colors, Inc. — east of South Eagle Road and south of
East Overland Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 10 is a Public Hearing on CUP 04-027. We do have an
ordinance that states that we need to swear in all those that will provide public
testimony. So, if you will be providing public testimony on Items 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15,
16, if you will, please, raise your right hand. Will you swear to tell the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? If so, answer I will.
(Affirmative answers.)
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. We will open this Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request for a daycare center
to serve to up 150 children located in the C -G zone in Silverstone Business Park. It is
shown here. It's kind of hard to see. It's right on the corner there of Copperpoint as it
makes a bend. There is an outdated aerial. This is the preliminary -- or the layout that
went to the Planning and Zoning Commission. There was discussion at that hearing --
let me briefly go through it. Here is a play yard, the building, and, then, the parking
wraps around. It does not exit onto the adjoining street to the east. There were some
concerns about the fire department's ability to get in and out of this facility. They have
changed it to add more pavement, basically, back in this corner, so that the trucks can
maneuver. You can see the no parking there. These are elevations of the proposed
structure. And I did want to point out that this is strategically located right between the
two large office -- the call centers that have gone in, so this is a prime location and
probably going to be a much needed facility. Staff did support the recommendation -- or
the proposal, as did the Planning and Zoning Commission. They forwarded a
recommendation for approval from you at their August 19th hearing. The staff provided
testimony, as did Chris Hobbs from Pinnacle Engineering. There was no public input
from the general public I should say and there was no changes to staffs
recommendation and there are no known issues before the City Council. So, with that I
will end staffs presentation.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions, Council? Is the applicant here tonight? If you
will, please, state your name and address.
McKinnon: Dave McKinnon, 735 South Crosstimber. Only one thing to add is I wish I
had thought of this first. It's a great location. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
McKinnon: All right. Thanks.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 26 of 59
De Weerd: I'm supposed to ask that, Dave. Any questions, Council? Okay. Thank
you.
McKinnon: Thanks.
De Weerd: Is there anyone who would like to offer testimony on this application?
Certainly you guys in the back can offer testimony. Okay. Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing on CUP 04-027.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the Item No. 10, Public
Hearing. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 04-027, with staff, applicant, public testimony included.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No. 10. Is there any further
discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: Public Hearing: CUP 04-030 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
gymnastics center in an I -L zone for Danik Gymnastics by Viktor
Danilovitch — 345 South Adkins Way:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 11 is a Public Hearing on CUP 04-030. 1 will open the
Public Hearing with staff comments.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 27 of 59
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request for a Conditional
Use Permit for a gymnastics center or what we have been forced to term a private
school in the I -L zone. It's located right on the comer of Atkins. That's right. And
nearby -- so, the -- it's an existing facility. They are proposing to use 6,000 square feet
of the 1,600 square foot building. They would not hold competitions there, it would just
be for private instruction. The Planning Commission held a hearing on it on September
2nd. At that hearing the applicant Viktor Danilovitch testified in favor of the application.
He did clarify some situations regarding to the proposed use and parking. There were,
again, no members of the public testified against this -- or testified in favor. Just no one
there. The key issues of discussion included the n umber o f employees, the parking
availability and watching kids after practice is over. The applicant was able to satisfy
the Planning Commission's concerns regarding those items and they did not make any
major changes, additions, or modifications to the staff recommendation or conditions of
approval and to staffs knowledge there are no outstanding issues before the City
Council.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Would you like to come forward? Please
state your name and address.
Danilovitch: I am Viktor Danilovitch and it is 345 South Atkins Way. What I can say
about this building. It's also a great location for me and for the kids that live there and it
is great area and about parking lot, was concern about parking lot and what can I say
about this. Usually, you know, it is -- it is drop out business. What this mean, parents
bring kids, drop off, and, then, pick them up after practice and not so many parents stay
in the gym. That's why not too much worry about parking lots. It's enough for this
building, because it is 6,000 square feet and it is between 13 and 15 parking lots and I
can have it on site another three, four, not on the road, but the building. That's why I'm
not -- I'm not worried about it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Danilovitch: A nd usually what we a re d oing i n t he g ym i s g oing I ike t his, two, t hree
groups, for example seven, eight, nine kids, maybe, and it's me and two or three
coaches with them only in this one group, one coach, it's me and not so many people.
But it's all day going from morning until evening. Its not like -- probably the most
difficult time will be from 5:00 to 7:00 o'clock p.m. That's -- but the other two businesses
will be closed already after 5:00 o'clock. That's why it will give us -- if I will be need
additional parking it will give us a little more space for parents.
De Weerd: All right. Okay. Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 28 of 59
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much.
testimony on this application? Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Is there anyone who would like to provide
Bird: I move we close Item No. 11, CUP 04-030.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 11. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve CUP 04-030, Conditional Use Permit for Danik Gymnastics
and to incorporate staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 11. Is there any further
discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12: Public Hearing: CUP 04-031 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
retail candle and gift shop in an O -T zone for Kathy Hinshaw (Aromatic
Sensations) by Kathy Hinshaw — 128 East Pine Avenue
Item 13: Public Hearing: VAR 04-005 Request for a Variance to the minimum
parking requirements for a retail use in an O -T zone for Kathy Hinshaw
by Kathy Hinshaw — 128 East Pine Avenue
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Items 12 and 13 are both related. I will open the public
hearings on CUP 04-031 and VAR 04-005. Anna.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this conditional use and requested
variance are for property located on Main just -- I mean in Pine just east of Main, as
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September 28, 2004
Page 29 of 59
shown here. There is just a little flag and that becomes an important consideration in
the variance. It doesn't show up very well. Sorry about that. The site -- well, me try
and point it out to you. Here is the boundaries, it comes down like that, it's kind of Utah
shaped stretched out. This driveway -- or this flag going out to the alley is just wide
enough to basically get a drive aisle into and, then, this will be the carport area. This is
the 924 square foot house that is -- the candle shop is proposed in. Candle and gift
shop. And, then, this is their front yard, their walkway, and, then, this is Pine Street
down to the south. The applicant is requesting conditional use approval in the Old
Town for a retail candle and gift shop. It, as many uses are in the Old Town, it does -- it
is required to go through the conditional use process. The square footage of the house,
924 square feet, would normally dictate that we would be looking for five off-street
parking spaces. As I mentioned before, the applicant is only able to accommodate one
handicapped parking in the carport. Staff has directed them and they have applied for
the variance that is before you tonight as well. To get the five parking spaces, basically,
they would have to remove the existing house. So, this is one case where staff was -- it
was very easy to make the findings for the variance, because to comply with the parking
requirements would, essentially, negate the existence of the structure on the property.
So, there is no way to facilitate the parking and the structure at the same time and meet
all other code provisions regarding the location of off-street parking. So, staff was in
support of the variance that is before you tonight. The Planning and Zoning
Commission has recommended approval of the Conditional Use Permit. They heard it
on September 2nd. The applicant Kathy Hinshaw testified in favor of the application.
No members of the public testified on the matter. The key issues of discussion were
primarily the parking and, then, some questions about how candles might be
manufactured on the site. They commission did not make any changes, addition, or
modifications to the recommendation and the only outstanding issue before City Council
was the question regarding the variance. And with that I think I'll end staffs
presentation.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions for staff?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Would the applicant like to come forward? If you will just state your
name and address.
Hinshaw: I'm Kathy Hinshaw, I own the 128 East Pine Avenue residence.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hinshaw: Let me see. We purchased the home to convert it over to retail. I do make
candles as a full-time business and I thought that would be a good idea to have a retail
shop on Pine. Well, in Meridian and have customers that are walking around after they
have gone to the local restaurants to walk by and come over to the shop. There also is
a city parking lot across the street kitty-corner that people can park and, then, come
over to the shop. Do you have any questions?
Meridian Clty Council
September 28, 2004
Page 30 of 59
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you very much. Is there anyone else who would like to provide
testimony on this application? Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close public hearings 12 and 13.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearings on Items 12 and
13. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIES: ALL AYES.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Anna, just a quick point of clarification. Do we need to approve the variance
before the CUP or in reverse order?
Canning: Yes, sir.
Wardle: With that, Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Item No. 13, VAR 04-005, a
variance for minimum parking requirements for Kathy Hinshaw.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 13. Is there any further
discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Item 12.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 31 of 59
Wardle: Move that we approve Item No. 12, CUP 04031, Conditional Use Permit for
Kathy Hinshaw.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 12. Mr. Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14: Public Hearing: AZ 04-019 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 64.48
acres from RUT to R-8 zone for proposed Ventana Subdivision by G.L.
Voigt Development Company — north of West McMillan on North Meridian
Road:
Item 15: Pubic Hearing: PP 04-026 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 234
single-family residential building lots and 16 common lots on 64.48 acres
in a proposed R-8 zone for proposed Ventana Subdivision by G.L. Voigt
Development Company — north of West McMillan Road on North Meridian
Road:
Item 16: Pubic Hearing: CUP 04-028 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
mixed use Planned Development consisting of single family residential lots
with reductions to the minimum requirements for lot size, street frontage
(including cul-de-sacs) and request to exceed the maximum block length
allowed for proposed Ventana Subdivision by G.L. Voigt Development
Company — north of West McMillan Road on North Meridian Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Items 14, 15, and 16 are all related for AZ 04-019, PP
04-026 and CUP 04-28. 1 will open these public hearings with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request for a 234 lot
residential subdivision on 64.48 acres in an R-8 zone. I want to point out some of the
surrounding properties. We have Meridian Road and McMillan Road. The property to
the south of the proposed subdivision is -- has been acquired by the Meridian School
District for a middle school. And, then, Paramount Subdivision is just to the west. As
you may recall, there is -- there is R-40 down in this comer area and, then, there is
some L -O directly across the street. This is Mr. Priddy's house, as we know from the
Saguaro hearings and, then, this is Saguaro Canyon Estates that was recently
approved by the City Council. The applicant has also submitted a planned development
request to modify a number of the zoning ordinance standards. I'm sorry. Let me back
up. I'm not organized very well today. I will point out some of the features of the
subdivision first. The entry road — this would be the half -mile road located at the
northwest corner of the property. That does come down and it connects indirectly to
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September 28, 2004
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Saguaro Canyon to the east. There is a pedestrian crossing in this location. There is a
stub street in -- just kind of at the end of that entryway portion. There is also a stub
street located toward the east and this would stub to a five -acre piece that was platted
with Saguaro Canyon, providing secondary access to that. They currently take access
from a flag -- 20 -foot wide driveway flag that connects to Meridian Road. This would
give them direct access to a public street. There are several open space lots. Here,
here with connections to the public streets, and, then, this small one here that's primarily
drainage. And, then, one at the terminus of their main entry road, which comes from the
center of the project. There are some pedestrian pathways that do connect down to the
school south -- just south of the property. Okay. The lots range in size from 6,000
square feet to 14,575 square feet. The gross density is 3.63 dwelling units per acres
and the net density is about 4.66 units per acre. They have, as I mentioned before,
requested a number of modifications to the city code. Those are lot size, they have
requested that a 6,500 -- or 6,000 square foot minimum per lot, rather than 6,500
square foot. On frontage they have requested a 40 -foot minimum, instead of 65 -foot.
Cord length, this is, again, related to cul-de-sac lots and also kind of corner lots or lots
that go around a 90 -degree curve. They have asked for a 35 -foot minimum, instead of
40 foot minimum, and proposed block length, they are asking for 12,000 plus feet for
their propose block length. They do provide 8.17 percent for their open space and for
their amenities they have also included playground equipment, a clubhouse, and a
swimming pool, as well as multi -use and public pathways. This application does come
forward with a recommendation for approval from the Planning and Zoning Commission.
They heard the item on August 19th. I'll briefly summarize the Public Hearing. Becky
McKay, representing the applicant and the developer, testified in favor of the
application. John Priddy, the property owner to the north, as I pointed out earlier,
testified in opposition to the application. His full concerns were outlined in the letter to --
addressed to that is in your files and, then, he also summarized those concerns for the
Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. Basically, his concern addressed the lack of
transitional lot sizes, the fencing on the north boundary, he has requested a rock wall,
as was done in Saguaro Canyon, and he had safety concerns regarding his livestock,
specifically his bull that he keeps on the fence -- or on the property and he does use a
hotwire fence and concerns about the lower home values. Other key points of
discussion during the hearing included public pathway standards. The applicant would
like the parks department to modify their standard pathway condition to allow a
shallower cross-section. I think we brought this up before, we just -- until that standard
gets changed in the park plan, I think you will see this request frequently. And, then, a
request about -- or discussion about the 24 -foot wide driveway serving the Boyak Parcel
in Saguaro Canyon and the stub street locations and that 24 -foot parcel is, again -- is a
driveway flag that extends just along the north end of this property before you reach Mr.
Priddy's property, so it's an intervening strip. The key Commission changes to the staff
recommendation were that they removed staffs recommendation to add a center
median at the north end entrance. The Paramount entrance is immediately across the
street and this is the half -mile location. Staff was kind of advocating for more of a main
entrance to the north of the property and kind of a more direct route to Saguaro Canyon,
instead of the main location being here, but that condition removed. The Commission
added a new site specific condition to remove one of the three smaller lots in Block 3,
Meridian city Council
September 28, 2004
Page 33 of 59
which was up here on the north boundary, so they -- they removed that lot and
relocated a stub street and, then, kind of -- it made a better lot configuration in this area.
The Commission agreed to add all of the proposed modifications and Engineering
Solutions response letter dated August 19th. If the -- the outstanding issues before City
Council, if you choose to approve this revised preliminary plan as recommended by
P&Z, the correct date is August -- I'm sorry, September 14th, 2004. There was still a
question about the middle school fencing on the south boundary of the property. I
would imagine that the applicant's representative is ready to speak to that, just staff
didn't know at the time the recommendation was done. And, density, this was brought
up in the recommendation and while it didn't receive any discussion of the Planning and
Zoning Commission, staff did want to raise a concern about the gross density of this
development being below four dwelling units per acre and it's related to the north
Meridian's area -- ability to provide a fixed bus route and kind of just be adjoining uses
where we have got light office and apartments and, then, the school and just in some
ways it was a statement about the uniformity of the subdivision and perhaps the
opportunity to have a little higher density in this area. But I will leave staffs comments
on that.
De Weerd: So, Anna, what is all going on east and west and north and south of this?
You know, I really want to get back to that -- no, the other one. Where you show a lot of
the lots around it. No. The red one. Yeah. So, what's going around that?
Canning: This is Mr. Priddy's property. It's this large one. The square in the middle is
just kind of a tax lot around his house and the rest is his agricultural property. This is
the middle school property. This -- to the north of Mr. Priddy is also a nice kind of estate
home. And, then, you met a lot of these folks during the Saguaro Canyon hearings.
they testified regarding Saguaro Canyon. Saguaro comes down like that. This was
Leeshire. This is Arcadia Subdivision there. So, all recent applications before Council.
This is all Paramount here. The Paramount plat had R-40, so basically apartments kind
of in this corner. I'm sorry. There was C -G right at the corner. And, then, there was R-
40 w rapping a round t he C -G and, t hen, there i s I ight office d irectly a cross t he s treet
from this property. These were little out -parcels that we haven't seen a use on yet.
De Weerd: So,now, is this a future transit -- public transit corridor?
Canning: We haven't identified future public transit corridors. It was brought up that --
that Ustick may serve that purpose in the North Meridian Plan. It's not an officially
adopted document. McMillan. I'm sorry. Not Ustick.
De Weerd: McMillan. I guess -- and that property just to the south of it is the middle
school. Does the middle school -- is that going to take up that entire piece of property?
Canning: My understanding is that it will.
De Weerd: And so everyone in this subdivision, since there was no connection to the
south, would have to drive out onto the arterial and then -- because we know how that
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works. No one walks. If they can't connect their car, they would have to drive out of the
subdivision, down to the school, off of --
Canning: To drive to the school, yes, you would.
De Weerd: Okay. And there were two pathway connections, though, to the south; is
that --
Canning: Yes. One here and one there.
De Weerd: So, if there was future transit on McMillan, they would have to cut through
the middle school to walk to any future transit?
Canning: If they were getting off near Meridian Road, yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions, Council? Sorry.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Would the applicant like to come forward? I'm sorry I got wrapped up in my
questions. If you will, please, state your name and address.
McKay: Becky McKay, Engineering Solutions, 150 East Aikens, Suite B, Eagle.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKay: I had to peek in just to make sure that was Mr. Nichols talking. I have never
heard him talk that much before. Not at one stretch. I was pretty impressed. And I
would just like to state for the record we are going to miss him desperately. A lot of city
attorneys come and go in the different municipalities and the different counties and he is
by far the most outstanding one that we have ever dealt with. He's very efficient at what
he does and I think his guidance is invaluable and we are going to miss him, too.
De Weerd: Thank you, Becky.
McKay: You're welcome. I'm representing the applicant in this matter. This project is
called Ventana. The applicant is G.L. Voigt Development. I'd like to basically start out
and tell you how this began. This particular property, as Anna indicated, 64 acres, but it
was part of a 104 parcel that was owned by Ken Ashenbrenner. I got a call here a few
months ago, probably about six months ago, from Wendell Bigham and he was a little
bit upset, because he stated that the school district could not obtain a middle school site
and they required approximately 40 acres and he said he had approached multiple
developers, but none of them were willing to take 40 acres out of a particular project
and sell that to the school district and that he had approached many property owners,
but none of them were willing to sell only 40 acres to the district when they had say like
104 acres. And he indicated that he had spoke with Mr. Ashenbrenner and Mr.
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September 28, 2004
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Ashenbrenner had said he was not interested and Mr. Ashenbrenner had also told the
developer of Saguaro that he was not interested in selling. So, I told Wendell -- I said I
will go talk to Mr. Ashenbrenner and see, you know, what we can do and he said, well,
do you have any developers that would be interested in partnering up, so that we could
possibly -- you know, they take 60, we take 40, and so Mr. Voigt came to mind, because
he had previously worked with the school district on the Mountain View High School site
up there by Resolution Park that we did a few years ago. So, I talked to Mr.
Ashenbrenner and he agreed that he thought this would be a good idea, a multi -- or a
middle school site on 40 acres and, then, 60 acres would be sold for a subdivision. So,
I just wanted to bring up to the Council that it's a really good example of public and
private partnerships working together to try to get the necessary infrastructure, such as
schools, out in this north Meridian area. This particular project is part of your North
Slough Trunk. We have been working with your public works staff and Keller and
Associates, who is your consultant, to design the sewer through the northern portion of
this project. We have -- we have made it as easy as possible as far as a direct route for
that sewer to extend eastward. Every time we take a bend, then, you guys have to put
a manhole in, that costs money, and, then, you lose depth. So, we came up with an
idea. We aligned with Paramount's half -mile entrance --
De Weerd: Becky, you'll have to --
McKay: We aligned with Paramount's half -mile entrance. I did explore the idea of
coming in with a collector over to Saguaro and when they were in the process I did talk
with their developers to see if they wanted to come in with a half mile collector and drain
some of that traffic out via a collector and they told me that they were not interested.
They also told me that Mr. Priddy, who lived here, did not want a collector along the
southern boundary, even though there is a 25 -foot strip. At that time we had stated that
they could include that 24 feet strip as a collector roadway, but, obviously, they were not
interested in that. The Council did approve that project and approved that 24 -foot
driveway. And, as you recall, I did testify that I hope you didn't want me to solve that
driveway problem when I came through, because we were in the process of planning
this site. We have connected to Saguaro. I have what we call a non -continuous
collector. I have got one coming in here. The central focal point is the clubhouse pool.
That's a restroom facility, lockers, and so forth, it has not been designed, but we have
built them out at Sundance Subdivision. So, that's, obviously, our focal point with heavy
landscaping on the collector. We have got a network of pathways that will come
through and line up with the multi -use pathway. Your Comp Plan designates an multi-
use pathway coming in from the east. We are connecting that and we run ten feet here,
a six foot sidewalk here, then, we will have pedestrian crossings, a ten foot pathway
here, six foot sidewalk, ten foot, and, then, a ten foot pathway leading directly out to
Paramount and, therefore, making that multi -use pathway connection to the west in
Paramount and to the east in Saguaro. We have some linear parks in here with
pathways, playground equipment. We are willing to work with staff as far as what they -
- where they think the best place to locate the playground equipment, whether it be in
this open space here or this open space, we've tried to provide open space in different
regions at the mid section and, then, here in the south and here in the northern portion.
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We have got the North Slough that comes through this site like, it splits off, goes north
and, then, there is a branch going westward. We will be required to pipe that and
provide an easement through that common area and, then, that pathway will run
alongside that pipe. We also have landscaping along the perimeter here at Meridian
Road. We will be providing the necessary right of way to expand Meridian Road. The
highway district is asking us to do a center turn lane and a decal lane, right turn lane.
As Anna indicated, we have got about 64 acres here. We have 233 build -able lots. We
dropped one lot along the northern portion against Mr. Priddy. One of the concerns the
Planning and Zoning Commission had was we had some 6,300 square foot lots along
that perimeter. Those were some of our smaller lots. They asked us to remove one of
those lots, move this stub down further east, centering it more within the five acres for
future redevelopment of the Boyack five acres and, then, take that area from the lot we
removed and add to these lots. So, we have like two 6,380 square foot lots. Now,
these are like 8,800 -- two 8,800 and, then, 10,000, 1 think it's 17,000 and a 10,000. So,
we reduced the number of lots that adjoin that northern boundary. As far as open
space, we have 7.47 acres of open space. There is approximately 8.17 percent. The
ranges of homes in here will be about 145 all the way up to 210 thousand dollars.
Square footages will be from 1,301 up to 2,700 square feet. It will be consistent with the
subdivision, S undance S ubdivision t hat M r. V oigt a nd we a Iso h ave S undance Place
Subdivision that we are just getting ready to bring on line. We provided not only the
pool, playground equipment, but the multi -use pathway, plus an addition to that, the
eight percent. We feel that this project, with a density of 3.6 dwelling units per acre, is
on that low range, it is designated medium density residential out in this area, which is
three to eight dwelling units per acre. So, we are on that lower end. I did speak with
Wendell Bigham. We have been coordinating with Wendell as far as what he wanted
for interconnectivity. Mayor de Weerd asked about vehicle connection. Meridian
School District does not allow us to bring a public street to their perimeter. They said
pedestrian pathways only. So, what I did here is I provided two pedestrian pathways
and, then, interlinked that with our sidewalk networks here to bring those kids down
here. Now, I have had subdivisions, I did the Legend's subdivision, which wraps around
Lowell Scott. We made the mistake in that one, we did not put a pedestrian path and
we went back and retrofitted it on the last phase and we only had one path. Here we
have two paths. As far as what persons do, they typically come and they will park along
the street waiting for the kids to come up through the ped path. That's what they do at
the Legends. They drop down from the subdivision to the north, through Legends,
interconnectivity and, then, they wait for their kids, pick them up at the ped path to try to
avoid the arterials and the congestion of the buses. Fencing. Wendell Bigham stated
as far as the fencing on the south boundary, he does not want any cedar board fence,
because the kids -- especially the middle school kids are strong enough to kick the
boards out. So, he said that he's open to vinyl or he said wrought iron or their
preference that the district puts it in is chain link, but typically from a development
perspective that's what we'd like. We are trying vinyl for the first time at Bridgetower
around t he a lementary s ite a t t he d eveloper's a xpense a nd Wendell s aid t hey would
accept that, see how it worked, if the kids are too rough on it, they put chain link on the
inside of it. So, that's our test case that's coming up. But, yes, I guess the Council
does -- the Council does need to add a -- like no cedar board fencing along the south
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boundary. The other issue Wendell wanted met o bring up was they do want us to
coordinate with them on getting sewer to the middle school through this project.
Wendell does not want to have to go down and cut Meridian Road around and have an
expensive sewer extension down to this middle school. As far as timing for the middle
school, he told me yesterday that it will be in September 2005 and the bound issue, if
they plan on starting construction in the spring, summer of 2006 and how they believe
they will need this school by 2,007. So, that's what we ask to pass on to the Council.
Like I said, we will be coordinating with him on sewer and any water connections that he
is going to need. We may have to -- if we do pop sewer down through these pedestrian
paths, w hich your s tall has allowed, we j ust a xpand t he pathway width, s o t hat t hey
could get a vehicle there. They don't make us do that if we get the manhole back in the
street. But we will probably have to widen the pathway out to have an adequate sewer
easement. So, we will work with your staff and we feel that this -- this is a good project,
we have gotten lot sizes, varying widths. Our sizes go down to 58 feet is the minimum
with and we alternate those, 26, 64, 60, so that we get a deviation in different type of
homes. It's been real successful and Mr. Voigt's projects have always been top notch
and he's done a lot of projects in Boise and in Meridian and I have had the pleasure of
working with him in his development team for over ten years now and they are one of
my favorities and they don't spare any expense and they want to do what's right and
they always make sure that they have a quality project. Do you have any questions?
De Weerd: Council, questions?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
Wardle: Becky, I have a question. You mentioned the development, which included
Mountain View High School. And I heard you mention the district's policy on residential
street connections or public street connections and so I heard the policy. From a
planning perspective, do you feel that the traffic solutions at Mountain View, which you
have mentioned, would be similar to this development and do you think that that --
regardless of policy, is good planning?
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Wardle, I don't think you can compare the high
school to a middle school, because the high schools are a whole different animal. They
generate peak hour traffic. My traffic engineer worse -- it's worse than like the mall at
Christmas as far as the peak -- you know, the spike in traffic when they have their peak
hours. So, you know, junior high kids don't drive, but a lot of the parents do drop off and
do pick up. So, that's one thing. The district has told us in the past, Councilman
Wardle, it's a safety issue. They need to be able to control the ingress and egress to a
school site, especially middle schools and grade schools sites, and that's why they have
always been reluctant in the past to allow us to connect a public street and, then, the
other thing I think is it's -- it would hamper their site planning, because, then, they'd, you
know, have to run say up through playgrounds or ball fields or whatever. If we just had
ped paths coming in they can connect fields with little pathways a nd so fourth along
perimeters. So, you know, I don't know if it's the perfect solution, but I don't have a
better solution and it will — they are the experts and so I wouldn't want to compromise
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the safety of their site. I don't know, maybe the police chief can elaborate on that and
how they feel about it.
De Weerd: Anna, do you have any comments?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm just curious why this policy -- we
didn't see it in the Bridgetower elementary school. We do see a road in the parking
drop-off area to t he s outh of t hat one, w hich, really, o pened up the a ccessibility i nto
those play yards from the adjoining properties. So, I'm not sure this --
De Weerd: Well -- and we have that in Ponderosa, too. They have on the south side of
there they do have a drive in area that you can -- they have a little bit of a turn around
area that you can drop off and come out, so -- and we have been advocating additional
visibility size and as well as vehicle access to it as well. So, chief, did you have
anything additionally?
Musser: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, without knowing exactly how the
school is going to be sitting up at this point, it's a little hard to address it specifically. I
did mention it to the fire chief as well, though. But, typically, what we run into is we
have an approach area, which encompasses Meridian and McMillan at this point, but
sometimes it's n ice to be able to have a secondary access point i nto these types of
settings through a residential area, because we can have an impact to our major
arterials, which keeps us from getting into where we need to be inside of a major
school. Middle schools are not the same as high schools, but predominately with some
of the violence that we have seen nationwide on it, they have a greater propensity than
the high school does for school violence to take place and it's something we have to be
cognizant of. The big ones we have heard about have occurred in a couple of high
schools, but the majority of the school violence situations we have had have occurred in
middle schools. So, we like to be able to have our approaches so that we can, at least
anticipate and be able to move into those areas if need be. I would be curious on the
one access that does have easement on it, it might provide us with a secondary access
into that area if we needed it, if its wide enough. The main thing would be is whether or
not it would support fire, though.
De Weerd: Thank you, chief.
McKay: Madam Mayor, if I could just address the Bridgetower -- the issue of the drop
off. In that instance it was our idea -- well, it was basically my idea to do the parent drop
off and the developer is building that at his expense, but on district property. The
reason being is it backed up to a collector. Ada County Highway District doesn't allow
any parking along a collector and I knew exactly what was going to happen, the parents
were going to park along that collector and the kids were going to walk south and they'd
pick them up and, then, drive into the subdivision. So, in order to make it function
properly from my perspective, I strongly recommended the drop off and, then, we got
WGI to design it and I think it's going -- it's going to be an excellent way for that system
to work with the collector. Here we are talking local streets, so people could pull up and
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September 28, 2004
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park along there. I don't have any problem making that wide enough if they needed a
secondary access. I just don't -- I just don't want to do anything that would, I guess,
upset the school district. If the Council thinks a stub street is appropriate, I'm not going
to squawk, but I don't -- I don't know if we are going to get cooperation from the school
district. I kind of envision that site looking kind of like Lowell Scott Middle School, you
know, where you have got the facility kind of down by the arterials, unlike Lowell Scott
they'd h ave both a ccess o n M eridian Road and M cMillan and, then, the fields i n the
back. That's kind of how I envision it. And, then, just like that one it's ringed with
residential.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
McKay: I don't know, maybe -- maybe the Council should talk to the school district
about, you know, what the plans are. The information I got from Wendell is they don't
have any at this time. Otherwise, I would have brought one to show you how their
circulation would work.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh. Mr. Bird.
Bird: On a middle school -- and I would be hard pressed to remember. I think the new
one -- Sawtooth is the only one that I can think of that has two entries and it's all off of
Linder. This is a corner one, I think it's probably going to be designed a lot like Lowell
Scott and I think you will see the same as Sawtooth, the football fields are backed up
against the deal. Now, Sawtooth with their deal, three weeks ago had the occasion to
have emergency fire and ambulance out there, had no problems with entrance getting
to the fields and anything else. So, I, for one, would not want to see a stub street from a
subdivision into a school property myself. I think the walkways are great.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. McKay, maybe you would address the issues that Mr. Priddy raised about
the north boundary a little bit and just what your thoughts are, since that was brought up
in Planning and Zoning. And the other question I have is I noticed on the other drawing
that was up on the overhead that it appears that at least most of those open space are
drainage lots as well, there is drainage in the top northern part of that linear park, there
is drainage, it appears, in the entire triangular piece towards the front, and there is
drainage i n t he other one a nd it appears to be p retty m uch ringed by h ouses. That
linear park in the northern piece is -- it looks to be about the width of a lot across the
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September 20, 2004
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front and, then, all the green space is, essentially, behind the homes and it's about the
same with the other piece, it's got the width of about a lot to access it and, then, the rest
of it all behind it and I guess I -- we have seen a lot of these. I don't see how practical
they are as real green space. I recognize you had eight percent — or a little over eight
percent of green space, but it doesn't appear to be very practical use of green space for
usable open space when all of it seems to be ringed by that and the only really open
visible lot is the center one, which is going to have your pool and the clubhouse on it, so
I don't know how much green space is left once you're done with that, but maybe you
could comment on those and why those are amenities, because I guess I don't look at
just playground equipment as amenities, I think the green space has to be functional as
an amenity as well. So, maybe you could comment on those two things.
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Nary, that's a good idea. On these preliminary
plats when we lay these out we don't design the storm drainage. We provide open
space and I always have a technician put a little designation showing that there is the
potential for storm drainage to be in that open space area, because I never want the
Council or the staff to think that it was solely just for recreational purposes. This
particular property does not have groundwater problems. Therefore, that allows us to
have more subsurface retainage. Also, on most of the plats that we are doing right now
we a re I osing I ots w hen we g o i nto o ur design for storm d rainage p urposes a nd the
main reason is just exactly what you talked about, the landscape ordinance -- this -- we,
obviously, need this to meet the requirements of the landscape ordinance, the five
percent. However, if it is not considered usable and it's just a big depressed hole, then,
it doesn't count. So, we have to do everything we can to make sure that the depression
is minimal. A lot of them that we are doing now we go to great efforts to make sure that
it's just barely depressed and we will take out lots, such as that lot or that lot, to even
make the area larger, so that we don't have as much of a depressed area and spread
that drainage out. With Settlers Irrigation District not allowing us to discharge our drain
-- our predevelopment drainage, as does Nampa -Meridian, it's an issue and it's an issue
when we have groundwater. But, like I said, this particular project does not. I want to
assure you that whatever we design here will definitely be usable and your staff -- we
submit landscape plans, it shows the contours, so they know exactly how much slope
we have got. If they feel that that is -- is not appropriate, boy, let us know. They
scrutinize those landscape plans very very well. We are going to be constructing a
swimming pool, restrooms, lockers, the playground equipment. I thought it would be a
nice touch like down here in this area here -- one reason we went to this -- this linear
park, we -- I've had some projects in the past that we did the linear parks and I always
like trying to center something, the focal point, the center of the community here, but we
are finding that people are willing to pay a premium if they are on green space, if they
don't have a neighbor. So, a lot of the developers are asking us to try to incorporate
what we call these linear parks, so that these lots all are on open space, the same with
here and here and along this area. You're correct that's probably -- that's probably
about 90 feet wide there, 80 to 90 feet wide and, then, it kind of opens up here. This is
what I call the bat, because I think it looks like a bat, and we have created a pretty large
-- that's a pretty large area and I can give you the square footage, you know, on little
drawings. This one is 62,000 square feet and this is 59,000 square feet. So, they are a
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September 28, 2004
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lot bigger than they look and they are an amenity in themselves and with the pathway
network coming down through the school, they are usable. The grade school is going to
be at Paramount, so I kind of envision the kids coming up and using this pathway and,
then, the multi -use pathway for the kids that are big enough to walk to the elementary in
Paramount. That's until an elementary, obviously, is built in that section. Does that
answer your question, sir? As far as Mr. Priddy, if you read the minutes from the
Planning and Zoning Commission, one of the arguments that -- that I had was the fact
that we do not abut Mr. Priddy's property. There is 24 feet between his property and the
subject property here. As you can see, there is an existing driveway going back to the
Boyack property and, then, there is a waterway. Mr. Priddy's home, as he indicated for
the record, is in the middle of approximately 18 to 20 acres. His home, from our
northern boundary, is approximately 450 feet from our boundary. And so as I told the
Planning and Zoning Commission, he has a pole fence, as you can see. I took these
pictures today. He's got a double electric wire at the bottom of that pole fence. He is
correct, he's got Hereford cattle out there. I saw two bulls. There is some horses. He
switched the animals to the northerly pasture and I'm sure he switches them back and
forth. So, it is kind of like a little gentleman's farm, a very nice piece of property. But I
guess the problem I have is I don't abut his properly and I also have this lateral to
contend with that is under the jurisdiction of Settlers Irrigation District and there is an
easement associated with that and that lateral is one of those ones that's kind of moving
along the boundary and so I -- on our topographic map it shows it kind of -- the
easement's part on our side and it's kind of running on our perimeter, it's one of those
ones that we have got to figure out exactly whose property is that on and have them
stake that for me, so I can see it in the field. But to place a concrete stamped wall for
1070 feet is 64,000 dollars. And I got that price from Farwest Development. It's 60
dollars a linear foot, because they did abut Mr. Priddy's property. To fence it with any
other material, depending on the type of material, it would be between 6,700 dollars to
10,000 dollars, depending on what type of material, whether you used like wrought iron,
cedar board, vinyl, whatever, so -- I mean there is a big difference and I guess like I told
the Planning and Zoning Commission, if I abutted Mr. Priddy, that would be one thing,
but I do not. And so I did not feel that that was fair and equitable. Thank you.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Becky, while we are talking about fencing types, I had a question. You
mentioned you envisioned that the middle school kids and the elementary school kids
utilizing these pathway areas. What are -- what are the fencing requirements for the
homes which abut those areas?
McKay: Councilman de Weerd -- I mean Mayor de Weerd, Councilman Wardle. I'm
sorry. I can't get over that. Your police chief stated that he wanted, obviously,
maximum visibility. I think he told Sheri no more than four -foot sight obscuring fence.
The last project I did with the linear parks in this fashion was the Legends. In that
particular subdivision we went with like a wrought iron and now they have like that vinyl
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September 28, 2004
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that mimics wrought iron, so it's non -- it's not sight obscuring and that particular one I
believe the city council at Boise city mandated that we have open vision fencing,
because we had a lot of linear paths through that development. And that -- f rom a
planning perspective that's my preference, because, then, you have people -- you just
have a lot more visibility, people can see out their back windows into the park and they
can see what's going on out there from their rear yards and some developers say, well,
people like to have their privacy, but in my opinion if you -- if you want privacy, you buy
a lot over here, if you want openness, then, you buy a lot on the linear park.
De Weerd: Any other questions, Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Becky. Mr. Priddy. If you will, please, state your name
and address.
Priddy: John Priddy, 5740 North Meridian Road.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Priddy: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, good evening. Talking about my
property again on 5740 North Meridian Road. Here is just a quick story. It appears to
me that you're going forward with the higher density philosophy in north Meridian. At
the Planning and Zoning meeting things are moving very very quickly and so when I
raised the north M eridian plan, that seems to be very m uch off the table and s o my
philosophy was -- I'm a good member of the community, if this is what the community
wants to do, you know, so be it and I will just have to live with it. I asked for three things
in this development, which were commensurate with what happened in Saguaro
Canyon behind my home, which was a cement fence, a stone fence, for the purposes of
safety. I'm just a little nervous, livestock does get out, that's a lot of people that you're
building around my property, not -- I mean in any one direction, you know, in all
directions and I'm a little concerned, because it is an agricultural piece of property, but
there is a dirt road in between the two properties, so the bull will have a running start
apparently through one fence and into the other. So, I think from a safety standpoint it's
a great concern to me and I hope for you from a liability standpoint. I also ask for a 25 -
foot height restriction and Mrs. McKay's comment at that meeting was that there wasn't
really anything restricting my view, there was nothing to look at. And, of course, the
Owyhee's are pretty special and you can see them. And I don't understand the concept
of a view from my home only. That's why I have 20 acres. Your view is from all aspects
of your property. It's not to sit on your front porch and have a view, it's to have a view
from your property. But having said all those things, I still would like to ask for those
and I'm very much against the development, but, you know, I'm a good member of the
community, I own several businesses, I employ many hundreds of people, I own a lot of
property, and I keep a pretty stealthy attitude. I don't like to be out there in front, but I'm
concerned when I came to the Planning and Zoning meeting, that was 11:00 o'clock at
night, I was the last one up, and as we dialogued -- it was more of a dialogue than it is a
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
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testimony. One of the Commissioners said to me, well, there is nothing that we could
build next to you that would make you happy. And I say, well, that's just simply not true.
And I thought that was a comment that was just really out of line and I said, well, there
is a lot of things that you could build next to me that would make me happy. I said
where is the transition from a multimillion -dollar estate property to a 140,000 -dollar on
the low-end residential community? And he said your south -- your pasture is the
transition. And I said, you know -- and that's -- by the way, we tape record these
conversations, thankfully. And I thought that was inappropriate comment number two.
And I said there are numerous developments that would be good transition adjacent to
my property that could be made as examples. Another Commissioner said, for
example, where would those be? And I said, well, I could take you to many of them.
He said, well, for example, where? And I said, well, Eagle has some. And he sternly
wagged his finger at me and said we are in Meridian. Now, I'm not the brightest guy
around, but, you know, obviously, if I had the wherewithal to employ hundreds of people
and own these kinds of properties, to be a philanthropist and be a good, upstanding
community member, I know which community I live in. I'm pretty clear on that one fact.
I have had numerous meetings with the Planning -- with staff. There is tremendous --
there is tremendous omission in communication. Mrs. McKay talked about the private -
public partnerships. Well, my family built the parks, along with the city of Boise, at
Eagle Road and McMillan, the Charles McDivett Complex and we know all too well how
that works. My youngest brother is in the midst of developing downtown Eagle, a
community center for children. We all know all too well what public-private partnerships
look like. Nobody's ever contacted me and talked about what shall we do with these
beautiful pieces of property. I mean, basically, 6,000 square foot lots and several
hundred homes the way you're going, so where is the partnership? Where is the
discussion? How it works -- and maybe this is law, maybe this is ordinance, that
people buy property, then, they come to the Planning and Zoning meeting, they get it
zoned and that's how things get built. But to your question, is that good planning?
Why don't we just have a conversation. If I have to leave my property or move on or
help to develop that in such a way that it fits with the community, that's -- so be it. But I
shouldn't have to sit before Planning and Zoning and be patronized. I really shouldn't. I
shouldn't have to be told nothing would make me happy, because the record is very
clear that that's not true and I shouldn't be told what city my property is in, because I'm
well aware of it. And now I'm getting a little cranky. Now I'm getting a little cranky. I'd
like to know why in numerous conversations with staff nobody really talks about what's
happening. I see these plans here, I have read the north Meridian plan, but now we are
going to shrink lot sizes down to 6,000 square feet. What plan is that in? How would I
have known that? I wouldn't have known it unless I come to these meetings and take a
defensive strategy to understand. There is offensive communication taking place from
you to me, from staff to me, as a 20 -acre property owner, and my telephone number for
my office is 955-7602. Somebody -- anybody is welcome to give me a call and I would
be happy to talk to you about the future of 20 prime acres with gorgeous trees, probably
a million dollars of outbuildings on the property, and I think the property values are
going to be significantly diminished by this type of a subdivision, but that's -- I guess
that's the way it's going to be. Red light. Thank you for your time.
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De Weerd: Council, do you have questions for Mr. Priddy?
Bird: I don't.
De Weerd: I would like to apologize for any treatment you felt you had at Planning and
Zoning and certainly everyone's voice is important and if you got the impression
otherwise, I apologize.
Priddy: Well, Mayor de Weerd, you might -- I know you're busy, but the tapes -- I mean
I thank you for your apology, but I'm a business man, I have thick skin, but the way
these things are being handled is very disconcerting to me and I'm a supporter of yours
and I think you have done a fantastic job, but I think that has to be -- I guess my
question is where is the communication? That's my real question. How do we properly
develop our community if private property owners aren't being talked to and with? So,
that's my express concern. I thank you for your apology, it's not necessary, but thank
you and appreciate your time this evening.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Priddy: Other questions? Okay. Thank you. Best of luck to you, by the way.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Do you have anything you would like to add?
McKay: I will be quick. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, transitioning is always
a difficult thing anytime we are up against five acre, one acre, two acre, 20 -acre parcels.
I think in defense of the Planning and Zoning Commission, as you well know the
lateness of the hour makes people a little short and I think that what they were trying to
state was -- Mr. Priddy indicated his home is 7,000 square feet, that he has a million
dollar home or something to that effect and I think what the Planning and Zoning
Commission was trying to say is if you want us to give you something that's identical to
what you have, we can't, because that's not the Comprehensive Plan. The
Comprehensive Plan has these designations for a reason and so, you know, I think
that's where we were coming from. We have to be careful in our community to provide
homes for different types of families and different economic groups and, for example,
the other night at the Eagle City Council meeting when they were discussing revamping
some of their Comprehensive Plan designations, some of residents got up and said
anything less than one home per two acres is high density and we shouldn't have it in
Eagle and if you want our opinion, we don't want anymore card carrying Wal-Mart
shoppers in this community and that is, from a planning perspective, the most horrible
thing I think I have ever heard said at a city council meeting. And so -- I mean we are
providing communities, neighborhoods, for different types of people. This is a good
community. We have done the same type of community. Some of your staff lives in
Sundance Subdivision. Steve Siddoway. And he loves it and he lives across from the
park and the pool and I asked him are you pleased and he said, yes, I love this
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September 28, 2004
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community. I mean so we are doing it right and this is good planning. Two acre lots,
one acre lots, five acre lots, that is the worst thing we can do in this community and
that's urban sprawl and that is it at its worst and this area is changing, with Paramount
Subdivision to the west, with the R-40, the L -O, the elementary, we have got Saguaro
wrapping all the way around us -- we are seeing a change in character. I'm almost
done. We are seeing a change in character and I do sympathize with Mr. Priddy,
because when -- the character does change. He has 20 acres, he's right in the middle,
he can buffer himself. It is a beautiful piece of property. And I hear a lot of people say
I'm going to live there forever and I'm never going to develop and, gosh, darn it, they are
the same person that a year later decides they want to move further out or go
somewhere else or take the money and nun. So, times change and things change and
I'd like your support on this project, because I think it's a good project and we are doing
everything I think right and we are on the low density end and this is the pathway for the
North Sewer Trunk and we are trying everything we can to facilitate, to make sure that
that goes through us in the most cost effective fashion. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mrs. McKay, I think some -- I guess I had a comment and, then, a question, but
sometimes the reason I think some -- like you said, sometimes people say I'm going to
live here until I die and, then, a year or two goes by and they want to develop their
property, is sometimes because I think what Mr. Priddy is saying is, you know, the
whole world lives next to them and they didn't want the whole world living next door like
that and so that's why they move, not because of them just wanting to develop their
property, that they didn't necessarily want the level of density that's next to them like
that. But I guess I'd like you to comment on -- my recollection from your earlier
testimony was when you talked about the variety of lot sizes, the variety sounded like it
went from 58 -- 5,800 1 think --
McKay No. No, sir.
Nary: It was -- the numbers didn't seem to be significantly different. So, maybe you
could tell me again what's the variety of housing and lot sizes that you have?
McKay: The smallest width is 58 feet and, then, they range all the way up 60, 62, 64,
66, 70s, 80s, they range -- there is a different range and we alternate them -- there was
a time, sir, when we would isolate different size lots and now we are moving more
toward integrating different types of housing all on the same street and so we are
providing different size lots, obviously, different prices. The smaller the lot, the lessor
the price and probably the smaller the home. But the range of the homes would be from
1,301 all the way up to -- we have them in Sundance as large as 2,700 square feet.
They are single story, they are two story. Square footage wise I think our smallest lot is
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September 28, 2004
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6,200 something -- Anna may correct me. Like 6,280 and, then, they range all the way
up to 17,000.
Canning: We have the range from 6,000 to 14,575, but that would have been prior to
your redesign.
McKay: So, we do have a variety of lot sizes, so that the homes look different. If we
make them a II t he s ame, s ir, then, t hey a 11 start I ooking the same a nd that g ives u s
variety.
Nary: Well -- and I wasn't asking if they were -- I didn't want them to be all the same.
McKay: Okay.
Nary: I just wanted to understand the level of difference, because I think what Mr.
Priddy was saying is that -- is when he was asking for some better transition to his
property, I think what the Planning and Zoning Commissioners didn't really get was that
he's saying at least in his perspective there is not much attempt to have transition and
what they are saying is since it doesn't appear that we could do it anyway, then, we
don't need to. And I don't think that's really the right approach. When I look at the
minutes that is what I think Commissioners Rohm and Borup said, is that we couldn't
make you happy anyway, so it doesn't really matter that we didn't. And I don't think
that's right. I think there is at least -- I guess I think we have seen a number of
developments and we have stressed over and over again -- in fact, one that we heard
last week that we had sent back for redesign was for exactly that point of trying to
provide varieties of d ifferent o nes from multi -family, even, I ike Paramount across the
street, to larger lot homes, acre lots and the like. Now, if I'm correct, that larger piece of
Saguaro Canyon would be on the northeast portion of this property; isn't that right?
McKay: Right here.
Nary: It's about that --
McKay: Yeah.
Nary: That area right there.
McKay: Saguaro will come up along the middle school, up our east boundary and, then,
across and up like that. It was kind of an L shape.
Nary: So, apparently, that larger piece of Saguaro Canyon was that five -acre parcel
that we --
McKay: That was right there.
Nary: That we kind of grudging allowed.
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September 28, 2004
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McKay: And that's the one the Boyacks were going to build their house on and they
wanted to utilize that 24 foot driveway for access to that until such time as they were
provided public -- alternative public street access.
Nary: Right. But my point is is that all those larger -- I mean although it appears
somewhat larger on your plan of those properties along the north, they aren't really
significantly larger in comparison to the rest of the property, so if there is an attempt to
transition, I don't see it.
McKay: Well, I guess -- Councilman de Weerd -- I mean Mayor de Weerd, Councilman
Nary -- I'm having trouble tonight.
Nary: Is it still on the front here? Okay.
McKay: When we brought this collector in, we have got a minimum of 20 feet and, as
you can see, this keeps widening out to about 40 to 45 feet. So, we have got landscape
along this stretch. You can see Mr. Priddy's eastern boundary -- or Priddy's eastern
boundary is right there. So, for probably 45 percent of the distance we have
landscaping a nd we have provided a stub street, which the staff asked us for i n the
event they ever do decide to redevelop and, then, we took six lots here and made them
into five right there and made these all larger. So, the Planning and Zoning
Commission, that -- I think that was one of their thoughts in trying to make the lots a
little bigger along Mr. Priddy's property, to get that transitioning, because their complaint
was we had two lots here that were 6,380 square feet, I believe. And they said, you
know, those are some of your smaller lots and they are against Mr. Priddy. Could you
take one out and, then, make all of those bigger and that's what we did. So, I think, you
know, they were -- I think they were looking for a solution. Now, you know, if the
Council thinks that we need to take one more out to make them even a little bit bigger,
that's possible.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Becky, I guess now that you have pointed some of that out, those two lots
that are looking directly into that entrance coming into the subdivision -- I'm trying to
figure out how on earth they are going to get out of their parking -- or their driveways.
McKay: This one here?
De Weerd: Yeah.
McKay: That one I think I'm going to probably have to eliminate due to the Settlers
easement that they want, because the easement takes up too much area. So, what I
anticipate, Mayor de Weerd is that this will just be one lot here.
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September 28, 2004
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De Weerd: They are still going to have a time coming in and out of there. I guess just
to elaborate a little bit more on what Councilman Nary said is I believe that there should
be better transitioning and I also believe that Meridian doesn't have one acre lots and
there is no reason why we don't, you know, and there is no reason why we shouldn't
have them existing somewhere in north Meridian and I know staff has heard me get on
this soap box again, but we do -- I think it's unfair to assume that everyone who has a
huge investment in that area is going to redevelop their property. You know, we kind of
hope that we retain some of that character somewhere and allow some areas to
redevelop, so that you can have a better transition and I do think that we have a lot of
this product in our community. We do. And so I guess I would just take you to issue on
those comments. You know, we do have this product throughout our entire community
and so it is nice to see areas that try a better transition and appreciate what surrounds
it.
McKay: Mayor de Weerd, if I could make a statement. I think your comments haven't
fell on deaf ears, because I think I mentioned at the Planning and Zoning Commission
the 20 acres to the north of Mr. Priddy's property, we were approached by a particular
developer that was looking at that and it has a 600,000, 6,000 square foot house right
smack in the middle. Beautiful home. And my recommendation to them was to come in
with like 18,000 square foot lots, you know, all the way around it and it had a tennis
court that they could incorporate on a common lot and I said; you know, that would be
nice. And the same people had, I guess, spoke with staff and had been discouraged on
doing something with 18,000 square foot lots and I told them that I believe the Council
would like -- you know, wants to see some variety and I think it would be a great idea.
And I thought that that would be the way Mr. Priddy's property could redevelop in the
future if he ever so chooses to. The same fashion. And, then, it would be surrounded
by very high end product.
De Weerd: Council, anything further? Thank you.
McKay: Thank you.
Priddy: Am I permitted another comment?
De Weerd: Council? She still gets the last word.
Priddy: Oh, that's fine. And she will outside anyways, I'm sure. I guess because we
are on the record, I want to -- you know, these are the kind of comments -- there was a
comment that was made by Mrs. McKay that's so disturbing to me, that would insinuate
because I am a successful business person and own a 20 acre executive home that
somehow that I would have a, you know, haughty or inappropriate approach to multiple
and very different types of housing for all manner of people. I'm not going to parade my
record around up here, I just want to say that if you want to check into my record, I have
provided a lot of housing for underdeveloped communities and people, many many
scholarships and I just want to be careful that I don't get -- that my character does not
get under the same loop as the person who made the comment about Wal-Mart card
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September 28, 2004
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carrying shoppers, because that was attached to me, either inadvertently or directly,
and I just wanted to say that I just wish the record would show that I don't appreciate
that and I don't know that it was intended for me personally, but it was linked to this
whole conversation and it's just, once again, 955-7602, just give me a call.
De Weerd: I don't think anyone took that to you personally. So, I appreciate that
clarification, though. Anything further, Becky?
McKay: Yeah. Just for the record, it wasn't meant for Mr. Priddy, it was just an example
of how things can get out of hand at times and that always scares me. So, I always
want people to think the broader picture and Eagle is a community that -- it has a lot of
beauty, but aspects I don't like and I don't ever -- I don't want that to happen and I know
Mr. Priddy is not that type of person. So, I just want the Council to realize that, you
know, we have to provide different types of homes and the value of lots just keeps
escalating and we are driving people -- they say we are driving people westward. They
are telling us now that 6,000 square foot lots are being priced at 48,000 dollars, 7,000
square foot lots are going for 62, 8,000 square foot lots are going for 70,000 dollars for
just the lot. And so as these prices escalate, we -- we are having to lay a juggling game
to try to provide affordable housing and different lot sizes for d ifferent families and I
think that's important and that's always a good planning goal. And I think that's -- I don't
want to do the same product. I try to deviate. This is -- you know, I don't bring forth
very very dense projects, I try to bring forth projects I think that are going to benefit and
I'm pretty particular about what projects we have and I have never came before this
Council with something I wasn't proud of. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Becky. Okay. Council?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I just had a comment before we close the Public Hearing. I don't think
anybody in developing a residential subdivision is trying to attack anybody's character.
Mr. Priddy's, Mrs. McKay's, or anybody. I don't think -- I don't think that's anyone's
intent. I think we are looking at the design, the density, the configuration, and that's
really what we are talking about. I think in this particular design -- I agree with Mrs.
McKay, she has brought many wonderful projects before this Council and there is a lot
of pluses to this project, but I don't think there is tremendous transition. When you
make lots ten feet bigger than the other lots, that's not transition. I think you have open
space in this lot that is nice, but, again, not very well thought out and it's very similar to
other ones that we have required redesign, because it doesn't really fit and blend
character into the particular area. Along Mr. Priddy's lot along the northern boundary of
his property I think more care and more work could be done to create better transition
and have larger lots. They could have density that's higher than this and it wouldn't be
that big a concern to me, I just think the density needs to be concentrated more in the
southern portion of this property, more towards the school, that's where the higher
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September 28, 2004
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density across the Meridian Road is located for, essentially, the same purposes. So, I
don't think it's the density here, I think it's the design. I'm sorry, but these linear lots that
are hidden by houses and have very narrow openings don't invite the community to
participate in them, they invite the people who border them to use them. I think the
areas along these larger properties cannot be assumed to just be redevelop -able
property in the near future and, therefore, we s hould probably s pend more care a nd
design in creating better transitions along them, than this one particularly has. I guess
my feeling is is what I'm inclined to recommend after everybody else's input, what I
would be inclined to do is remand this back to Planning and Zoning, not so that they can
make t hose types of comments again, s o they can really evaluate t he t ransition a nd
come up with something better and more concrete than simply saying we don't seem
like we can meet anybody's needs here, so we are not going to. I think there is a way to
make this better by some redesign and I think in our -- the past -- the recent history
when we have done that, we have been more satisfied with the results. We have had
developers come back and say, you know, when we ran this back through, again, we
found we could do this better, we could make the green space more usable, we could
make it more accessible, we could provide better transition and meet the neighbors'
concerns. You know, Mr. Priddy raises a legitimate concern and if he was ten people
instead of one, we would say to sit down and see if we can iron these out. Just
because it's one person and not ten, doesn't mean we shouldn't do the same thing. So,
my feeling is there is some great points here, but it could be done better and I think it
could be redesigned a little bit better to have better transition and to have better open
space that would be more usable, so --
De Weerd: Council, any other comments?
Rountree: Not after that.
De Weerd: Okay. We do have an open Public Hearing.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess if there is no other comments, I guess I'd move to close the Public
Hearing on Items 14, 15, and 16.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearings on Items
14, 15, and 16. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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September 28, 2004
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De Weerd: Council?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'll see where this goes. I would move to remand Items 14, 15 and 16
back to the Planning and Zoning Commission consistent with the comments on the
record tonight in regards to the transition between this property and the neighboring
property to the north to provide greater transition and lesser density, larger lots along
the northem boundary area and to also review the open space that's being provided to
be — to provide better access, more open vision to it and not have it completely
surrounded by homes. And I think those are the only issues of concern. I think the
other ones regarding access to the school and the like, I think the developer has
provided adequate information on that. So, just those two points.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Nary, would that include that the -- the east side that backs up to Saguaro,
which is an R-4?
Nary: Yes. Yes. And the east side and --
Bird: North and east?
Nary: Yes. North and east.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to remand these Items 14, 15 and 16
back to Planning and Zoning. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor -- and I'm going to agree with Mr. Nary that I think there is some
good points about this subdivision, I think it needs just a little bit of work. One comment
I'm going to make is -- and I disagree with the Mayor about one acre lots and so I'm not
necessarily crazy about one acre lots, but I'm not opposed to -- and maybe for the staff
I'm not opposed to say 18,000 square foot lots that Mrs. McKay has mentioned, so just
to get that out. Secondly, I certainly think that we need to address the public safety
issue as far as access to the school site. Mrs. McKay has addressed that and certainly
involved the park staff in the process with that halfway if that's so -- would be what it
would be. And, then, I would also like the topic of open vision fencing addressed within
the open areas.
Meridian Clty Council
September 28, 2004
Page 52 of 59
Nary: And I would concur with that to be included as part of the motion.
Rountree: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Anna, I guess one other thing is if staff could show how the pathway
from Saguaro would connect up to whatever is done in this would be helpful as well.
So, any further discussion, Council? Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Canning: What do we have to do? Are there findings for a remand? I just -- I don't
know. Do we do findings or does it just get remanded?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nary: I'll bet he's not going to do them.
Canning: I know. Because if they need to be done, I need to do them. I know that
much, and I'm trying to find out what I need to do.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think in the past we have prepared
an order of remand where it just -- it remands it to the Planning and Zoning Commission
and outlines in the remand the areas to be addressed, so the applicant knows what it is
they are supposed to be trying to come up with and I'm not sure how it works out in the
real world, but I expect that Mrs. Bowcutt will take these comments and talk to you and
work with you before she comes back with revisions at the Planning and Zoning
Commission.
De Weerd: Okay. Anna, did that answer your question?
Canning: I will have to search up for an order of remand, so that I can figure out what
I'm doing, but yes.
Item 17: Tabled from September 21, 2004: Ordinance No. 04-1101 : AZ
03-036 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 19.7 acres from RUT to R-
8 zones for proposed Salisbury Subdivision No. 2 by Earl, Mason &
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September 28, 2004
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Stanfield, Inc. — south of West Ustick Road and west of North Meridian
Road:
Item 18: Ordinance No. 04-1102 : AZ 04-014 Request for Annexation &
Zoning of 30 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for proposed Sienna Creek
Subdivision by Sagewood Development, Inc. — north of West Ustick
Road and east of North Linder Road:
Item 19: Ordinance No. 04-1103 AZ 03-021 Request for
reconsideration for annexation and zoning of 114.52 acres from RUT to R-
4 (PD) and C -G zones for proposed Redfeather Estates Subdivision No.
2 by Packard Estates Development, LLC — south of East Ustick Road and
east of North Eagle Road:
De Weerd: I'm sure Mr. Nichols has one on file somewhere. Thank you. Okay. Items
17, 18 and 19 are ordinances. Ordinance No. 04-1101 is Item 17. Item 18 is 04-1102,
and Item 19 is Ordinance No. 04-1103. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read these three
items by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Item No 17, Ordinance No.
04-1101, an Ordinance finding that Woodside Properties, LLC, the owner of certain real
property generally located on the west side of Meridian Road north of Waterbury Park
Subdivision in Section 1, Township 3 North, Range 1 West, Meridian, Idaho, to be
known as Salisbury Sub No. 2 and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of
the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, have made a request for annexation
in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and
zoning designated Medium Density Residential District (R-8) and declaring that said
land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part of the City of Meridian,
County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts
thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the city engineer to add said property to the
official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of
Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed
with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State Tax
Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section
63-2215.
Berg: Item No. 17 is Ordinance No. 04-1102, an Ordinance finding that Sagewood
Development, Inc., the owner of certain real property generally located a quarter mile
north of Ustick Road and a half a mile east of Linder Road, within Section 36, Township
4 North, Range 1 West, Boise meridian, Meridian, Idaho, to be known as Sienna Creek
Subdivision and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of
Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, have made a request for annexation in writing
to the Council that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated
Medium Density Residential (R-8) and declaring that said land, by proper legal
description as described below, be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State
of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 54 of 59
herewith, and directing the city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the
City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified
copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County
recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State Tax Commission of the State of
Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
Berg: Item 19, Ordinance No. 04-1103, an Ordinance finding that Harry and Frances
Bryson, Helen and Elaine Deckerheimer and Melvin R. and Noma P. Shrecknick Trust,
Melvin Grant and Will Grant, the Ustick 36, LLC, and Archie Ralph Wood with Packard
Estates Development, LLC, to become owners in May of 2004 and the owners of certain
real property generally located on the south side of Ustick Road, one quarter mile west
of Cloverdale Road and the east side of Eagle Road, State Highway 55, one quarter
mile south of Ustick, Meridian, Idaho, to be known as Redfeather Estates Subdivision
No. 2 and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian,
County of Ada, State of Idaho, have made a request for annexation in writing to the
Council that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian and zoning designated Low
Density Residential District (R-4) and General Retail and Service Commercial District
(C -G), declaring that said land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part
of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances,
resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the city engineer
to add said property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the
Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the
areas to be annexed with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and
the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-
223 and Section 63-2215.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk, for reading that rapidly.
Nary: What was that again?
De Weerd: Is there anyone in the audience who would like to hear any of these
ordinances read in their entirety?
Bird: If so, come up and start reading.
De Weerd: Hearing none, Council, do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Ordinances 04-1101, 04-1102, and 04-1103, with suspension
of rules.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 55 of 59
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Items 17, 18, and 19. Mr. Clerk,
will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, if you might indulge me for a moment on some things that
have been bothering me and I guess they didn't come to home to me until tonight and
two weeks ago when we had a development that -- one of the upper scale neighbors in
Meridian, I would guess, but at the time they were providing a mix of lots and the
developer came to us and said I can't sell these small lots anymore and I want you to
combine a couple and re -subdivide them, so I can market these. And I continue to see
this desire to bring R-8 Subdivisions with conditional use permits, which, actually,
reduce the size of the lots and I don't know what the inventory -- I know what the
inventory of lots are in the City of Meridian, but I don't have any idea what the inventory
of the mix of lots are in the City of Meridian, but I would suspect that if one were to look
at large lots, something above an R4 in the City of Meridian, not in the area of impact,
but in the City of Meridian, you will find not many. Not that I'm asking for that, but it
seems to me that we have got to drift in north Meridian particularly that -- we are looking
at small, compact neighborhoods or trying to create that and I understand the reasons
why. Oftentimes it comes back to transportation. But the reality is we are not -- we are
not really helping public transit with these more compact communities. You don't have
a grid network that they can — transit can operate through and they continue to be
spaghetti loops and difficult to navigate and get around. You know, if we were really
looking at that, we would do what's done on the east coast and in Europe is that you
have zero lot lines and you have rows of houses for miles and miles and they all look
kind of the same. But I think we need to maybe ask staff to take a fresher look at --
since we do not have a north Meridian plan per se, what it is we are doing there, why it
is we are doing it, and what is our inventory of lots and lot sizes and is that really and
truly the direction we want that entire area to go. We are going to continue to fight this
transition thing, we are going to fight it even more if we happen to be fortunate enough
to move across Chinden and incorporate some of the areas north of Chinden into the
city impact at some point in time in the future. So, I just have had a problem trying to
figure out what my problem was until a couple weeks ago when the developers were
coming in and saying let's -- we need to combine a couple of these small lots so we
have got something we can sell and, then, we continue to have before us smaller lot
subdivisions come in by a consider volume as compared to even R-4 type subdivisions
recently. Anyway, that was just an observation and concern that maybe we have swung
the other way too far, maybe we need to take a look at what we do want in terms of lot
sizes and amounts and the same thing on the other end, on the R-40 side, what's our
inventory? We've had a number of those recently. Are we saturating the market? Are
we saturating locations within the city with that kind of housing, whether it be R-4 or R-8,
R-40, R-15, whatever it might be.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 56 of 59
De Weerd: Well -- and are we putting it in on transit course.
Rountree: Yeah. And have we even thought about a transportation plan for the City of
Meridian short of anybody else doing it for us. I know ACHD is not planning that kind of
an activity. Compass at this point in time has not done that. Hopefully, that will come
out of the new transportation planning process, but we could do that on our own. And if,
in fact, that's what we want to accomplish, then, maybe we ought to sit down and now
that we have Steve tasked with that kind of an activity and do that and think about it, but
I just at this point don't see rhyme nor reason for a lot of the things that come before us.
Just kind of seems like what — this will fit in this five acres and this will fit in that ten and
this will fit in that 50 and away we go. Anyway, just some observations.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Rountree: Just kind of brought it home tonight
De Weerd: Thank you, Charlie. Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree with Charlie. You know, there for years we was a cookie R-4 and we
wanted to see a little bit of deal, but now it's swinging way too far the other way in my
opinion. You know, we just turned down Leeshire, one of the reasons -- my biggest
reason was because of the density he had up in the front that I didn't -- I thought was
just too dense and if we can't transition up against these rural ones in a halfway decent
-- you know, what's wrong with 20,000 acres lots up against R -- you know, those fives
and stuff, 20,000 -- oh, man. Becky, have you got any of them? Those 20,000 square
foot lots that would come up against there, you know, that would transition a little better
and stuff like that. I think we have got to look at it. I know the county has had some real
problems by their transitions -- some of their transitions being right and I think we -- we
need to look at it and take a good hard look and see what the inventory of lots we have
got out there and -- I mean I don't want to be just an R-4 city, but by the same token I
don't want to be an R-8 city either.
De Weerd: Or an R-1.
Bird: So, I think it is something that we need -- I'm like Councilman Rountree, I think it's
something we need to look into and not just look into it, do something about it.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: While we are on open mike night for our Comprehensive Plan and discussing
lot sizes, just my comments in the sense one of the things that I see that has been a
result of our changes and the changes in planning and the move from what has been
termed cookie cutter subdivisions is what I feel a higher quality housing product. And I
Meridian Clly Council
September 28, 2004
Page 57 of 59
feel that the City of Meridian is gaining a higher quality housing product and I feel that
our consumers are becoming more affluent, they are becoming younger, we are
attracting a different type of person, because people and their jobs and their lives are
changing and so my opinion of -- I understand that we have been seeing some of these
dense subdivisions come, but I'm not necessarily opposed to them just based on
density. My concern on most of the subdivisions that I see are the concerns of what I
see from the people living there, how will I -- how will I circulate through that subdivision,
what services are available, and so, I certainly agree that we need to look and as our
jobs as kind of the land use planning application here, that's our job to look at that, but
I'm not opposed to those ideas based truly on density, so --
Nary: Who cares what I think.
De Weerd: You're not obsolete yet.
Nary: Madam Mayor, I guess my only comment -- my only comment would be is I do
agree that one of the frustrations we have seen a few times in the last few months has
been -- has been that -- that propensity for R -8s and, then, the CUPS to make those
smaller and more dense, but yet not really as we talked a little bit tonight, not really
provide a real variety and level housing. I don't -- I don't have a problem with the
reduction, I have a problem with the fact that the reductions are fairly minute. We are
not talking about, you know, dense in one portion and larger lots in others, we are
talking about a difference of ten to 15 feet in frontage. I mean it's not a significant
amount of variety. I think that is the frustration we have seen a number of times. We
have had, at times -- and I think Councilman Rountree is right, we have had sometimes
difficult times in articulating what is it about this project that was problematic, sometimes
it's been the design, sometimes it has been the density, sometimes it has been the
variety and sometimes it has been the open space and not to pick on Mrs. McKay or
this project, because I do think there is lots of pluses in this particular project that we
talked about tonight, but it really seemed to send that home for everyone that that's
really where it is, is that we have went from a very R-4 dense community to a very R-8
dense community, but yet we still haven't seen, really, that overall review of trying to
transition t hings a nd try to m atch u p i n the a reas i n the n orth, we h ave j ust a Ilowed
things, as Councilman Rountree said, this fits in 20 acres, so let's just do that. So, I
guess as we go forward that's the direction -- if that's the direct the Council wants to go,
I think that's the direction the staff needs to know and that's what they will look at and
we will look at the Comp Plan and look at those types of things.
De Weerd: Council, I guess what I'd like to propose -- and I know it's something that
Anna has been looking into -- is a workshop with you all and to sit down and start
discussing transportation corridors and densities and neighborhood centers and that
kind of thing, so we can all be on the same page as to what we are doing and I would
recommend that we do that with the Planning and Zoning Commission. Anna.
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 58 of 59
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I did want to -- believe it or not, I
agree with you all. Not just because my job is on the line, but because I truly do agree
with you, but --
Nary: I'm with her.
De Weerd: Oh, this is going to be too unusual.
Canning: With the large planned communities that have gone -- and namely Paramount
-- I mean the use exceptions that Paramount got have really completely changed the
nature of the Comp Plan in that area and I do agree that we need to look at that and the
other thing is -- and I take offense at the way the PUD ordinance is misused and I'm
doing everything I can to make that not be used in that way. A PUD should be
something really s pecial t hat j ust needs relief from codes. N ow, I k now o ur c ode is
broken, I know better than anybody how broken our code is, probably, and so until that
code is fixed, you know, it was the only way developers could get the product type they
were looking for. Once we get the zoning code fixed, though, I'm not going to have
much tolerance for PUDs. They shouldn't be that way. You have got the code, you
should -- you should design to the code and you have got the Comp Plan, you should
design to the Comp Plan, you shouldn't have acres and acres of use exceptions that
you have to decide whether or not it fits in the Comp Plan. So, having said that, it's
become more and more evident that -- a need to get to that north area plan and as soon
as I can wean myself away from the zoning ordinance amendment, the larger text
amendment, I was going to spearhead that effort and move toward that way and I made
the commitment to the Process Improvement Group, too, because they are reluctant to
make changes to the planned development ordinance until that Comp Plan is fixed in
that area and I do think there is a real need to look at those areas and figure out some
transportation corridors and address the large commercial and office areas that are now
there as a result of Paramount and other developments.
De Weerd: And I just worry that, you know, our window of opportunity continues to -- is
rapidly closing and you all know it better than anyone at the fast pace your office is --
well, all of your offices planningwise is being slammed with, but we have to get on top of
this. Otherwise, it's going to be frugal -- or fruital --
Nary: Futile.
De Weerd: Futile. Okay. It's going to be -- I like that. It's going to be bad. And you
notice I don't do that anymore.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I know we have set the budgets, but it seems to me that those particular
items as it relates to Planning and Zoning activities are pretty critical. Should we
Meridian City Council
September 28, 2004
Page 59 of 59
contemplate the possibility of providing some professional assistance, not necessarily a
consultant to do the work, but some -- a consultant to -- might kind of a higher planner
status that Anna could put on a task and not worry about the development stuff, but
under her tutelage and direction get some of this stuff done.
De Weerd: I appreciate that and we can maybe bring back a recommendation.
Canning: And I have had that relationship on the zoning ordinance amendment. I have
been doing that with Diane Kushlan and that's worked out great. It relieves a lot of the
pressure off of me, but it doesn't take such a big whack out of the budget.
Bird: Madam Mayor, isn't Freilick -- we should get a bunch of -- Councilman Rountree
just was talking about his report, if I recall, the RFP.
De Weerd: We certainly hope so.
Rountree: I'm not sure you're going to like it.
Bird: Well, we might not like what -- the consultant we had.
De Weerd: Council, I have just one last thing. Mr. Nichols --
Nary: I think if we are done, I would move to adjourn.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry. It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:14 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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