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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 10-04 Joint ACHDCITY OF MERIDIAN / ACHD COMMISSION JOINT MEETING / WORKSHOP AGENDA MONDAY, October 4, 2004 —12:00 P.M. ADA COUNTY HIGHWAY DISTRICT AUDITORIUM 3775 ADAMS STREET GARDEN CITY, IDAHO I Update on Current & Future Projects in Meridian II Update on Meridian Transportation Management Plan III Discussion of Storm Water Retention Ponds — Maintenance and Landscaping Issues IV Other (time permitting) ACHD (Hansen) City of Meridian / ACHD City of Meridian / ACHD (Mills / Brown) Meridian City Council & ACHD Commission Meeting October 4.2004 The Meridian City Council and ACHD Commission Joint Meeting I Workshop was called to order at 12:00 P.M. on Monday, October 4, 2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd and ACHD Commission President John Franden. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle and Charlie Rountree. Staff Present: Brad Watson, Anna Canning, Bill Nary and Will Berg. ACHD Commission Members Present: Bivens and Susan Eastlake. Roll -call Attendance: John Franden, David Wynkoop, Dave Vacant X Keith Bird X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree X Mayor Tammy de Weerd Franden: Welcome, Mayor De Weerd and City Council members from Meridian. Its good to have you and Bill we are song that you have been ostracized from the rectangle table. Nary: I can see from back here. Franden: it was your choice, right? But, anyway, congratulations to Bill on his appointment as City Attorney. De Weerd: And congratulations from us. Franden: Maybe what we should do is just quickly we will go around and introduce ourselves. Well, I guess not. I kind of thought that it was a little bit like Church, where you had the Meridian people on one side and ACHD on the other, but I think we are mixed. Anyway, we will start with Dave Wynkoop. Wynkoop: Dave Wynkoop. Bivens: Dave Bivens. Rountree: Charlie Rountree. Bird: Keith Bird. Wardle: Shaun Wardle. Meridian City Council ! ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 2 of 27 Eastlake: Susan Eastlake. De Weerd: Tammy De Weerd. d is Franden: And John Franden. The first ve on our update on current and future Projectsla in the Meridian area.Mr. Hansen? an a Item I. Update on Current & Future Projects in Meridian . ACHD (Hansen): nd Council Hansen: Thank you Mr. President, Madame Mayor, Commissioners a members. My name is Dorrell Hansen I am the assistant ou on some of engineering here at the Highway District. I am going o up the projects that we have got going in Meridian tgoing throughhis year. . As yoe nex u wcan see, are just a list of the ones that we are going to beg 9 its a pretty large list. We will start off with the Overland Road project. Eagle That's Touchmark Way — this is a view aerial that was taken last Thursday. Eagle Road and you are facing to the east. This is the portion that is under roject was originally scheduled to go from Eagle to construction right now. This p lly scheduled to be built in 2006, however, the Cloverdale and it was origina construction of this first half mile was moved up to accommodate the Silverstone Development and that did require and I will go over it a little bit later —that did require that we delay the Franklin Road from Eagle to Touchmargutter, er this point and time, he roadway is being constructed five lanes with curb, g and bike is a developer project ines and its being nn the develonstructed perprojectnd thets developer wnot an e be project, ro ect is paid out at this point reimbursed by impact fees for the project. The 1 and time. We have traffic back on it. The traffic is running the middle three � are finishing up down lanes. The two outside lanes are still cloWe sed hope tecause the' o have the road totally opensidewalks, pet ramps and landscaping. for ect is the Franklin Road from Main to Nola. ola October is again at EagletRoad, only we are facing o he west. This was actually two different projects. The project from Main to Nola was a project and then the second project was from Nola to Eagle Road here. Main to Nola is close to completion. They got about 600 feet of curb, gutter and sidewalk othere n the pleted ase and f omeu Nto complete. ola to Eagle the can kind of see that trafficbeing s routed onto rthe two brand d newt lanes r and that are north s s onto de. Hope o start curbing the south side of the thetil si�teon the north side this orm drain week. The new (inaudible) poles at Eagle Road are up and operational and on October 8th at 6:00 p.m. we are going to go in and close this intersection to the west down. That's a Friday evening. We plan on having the intersection closed down from Friday evening at 6:00 to 5:00 Monday morning on the 11th beas this to to accommodate the first 300 feet of construction there. its a verytight be constructing in and we decided it would really impact traffic the least if we went ahead and just closed it down for a weekend and let the contractor get in Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 3 of 27 you will there and get it done. After this roadwork is completed for the season, see that there is one left turn lane and one three lane on Westbound — excuse me Eastbound on Franklin that is going to be blocked at the Eagle intersection and that's because we don't have the improvements on the East side completed and so there is no place for them to go, so even though the project will be done for the year, you are still going to see barrels up out there and I think we decided to use barrels rather than paint because we can take the barrels down next spring or next summer when we get the rest of the project completed. We hope to have this project completed by November 4"'. (Speaker?): Dorrell, that comer there on the — I was noticing the other day on the southwest comer — is that going to be a 90 degree corner when it's finished or is it going to be a sweeping right hand turn? Hansen: The free right hand turn lane is being taken out as far as this project (Speaker?): It is being taken out? Hansen: Yes it is. This is the remainder of the project that was originally scheduled to be completed this year, but as I said before it was delayed to accommodate the Overland Road project. We expect to start construction on this after school is out in June of 2005 and hope to have it done before school opens back up. The reason for that is that we are going to allow the contractor to close this section of the road down and the detour route will be up there on Pine and so we want the detour route not to be during school time when there is children coming and going from that school up there on Pine. Next we have Eagle Road from — excuse me Victory Road to the Ridenbaugh Canal. Eagle Road from Overland Road to the Ridenbaugh Canal was constructed last year by the developers of Silverstone and El Dorado. This project will construct the remaining section between the canal and Victory Road. This project will widen the road five lanes with curb, gutter and sidewalk and bike lanes and that includes a rebuild to the Ridenbaugh Canal bridge. We are also going to build the Eagle Road and Victory Road intersection with this project and that will be ad five by five intersection. For this fiscal year '05 we plan on going o purchasing right of way for these two projects and they are currently scheduled to be built in fiscal year 106. Next project is Franklin Road from Ten Mile to Linder. This project is not currently in our five year work program, se w f we can't ebudge the eted money in fiscal year '05 to prepare a concept report project into the federal aid program and if we can get into the federal aid program and federal aid becomes available, (inaudible) advanced acquisition of right of way and potentially even construct it. Under the current schedule if we can't do any advance right of way or construction, the design was set for fiscal year '06 and '07, the right of way acquisitions for fiscal year 108 and '09 in construction is currently in PD. The next project is Franklin Road from Touchmark to Five Mile. This is a federal aid project and it's going to expand the roadhey to five ill la es, with curb, gutter and sidewalks and a safety Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 4 of 27 intersection work at the Cloverdalethe design woeknand wenhave tright of year 05 we anticipate completing hese in Locust Grove Overpass projects acquisitions scheduled for 107 and '08 and construction in 'fl9. Locus Grove, Bentley to Franklin —this is the next p will be the Locust Grove and this project is scheduled to be constructed in '05 and it will widen the roadway to five lanes. The next phase n that project Of Overpass. This its a federal id id wiloll c but Itto four lanes and t wioAth Contributions ll connect It into Meridian and 1 et to this project next year the five lane roads on both sides and by the time we g expected to be roadways on both yearinFYw05 and we at ill be done. The and acquisition as constrction to this completed this y o is Locust Grove, Franklin to Fairview. Actually project in FY '06. Next year and so this project will this is from Lanark of theiFranklinWRoad vproect this y ar and sots from Franklin to Lanark a p from Lanark north to Pine and hook onto those and construct a new roadway rebuild the existing roadway from Pine to Fairview. There will be a five -lane road, curb, gutters and sidewalks and it will include some iNow the new orailrroad and a signal at Pine and a brandnewo requ� that We close down the railroad crossing on Locust Grove is going that's not Locust Grove on the crossing on Nola and that slide is not correct, cin to require us cul-de-sac -- when the bottom that is actually Nota and we will have to close down that railroad crossing when we build this new one and that is going z to Cloverdale. This will widen road on both sides of that. Overland Road, Topaz nsidewalk.The improvements to the roadway to five lanes with curb, 9 completed this year ro ect and so this project will improve the the Cloverdale on Overland Road intersection will actually be as part of our Cloverdale Road improvements to the improvements thatthe roadway from those intersection imp to Topaz• Right of way is developer is putting in this year up ro ect will be constructed scheduled for this year and construction in widening Thro project tlfrom over on Overland along with our project from —`Which is a widening p j from Cloverdale and Five Mile there is an existing three lanes out there. We are going to go me as we build ahead and widen that out to five la `eawewil haveame ) Overland Road this Project. When these two projects are comp project from Meridian to Linder. This project will widen the II improved from Meridian Road to the west. Meridian Road to the east id We have the Overland Road prof utter and sidewalk and bike lanes. Theycompleted roadway to five lanes with curb, 9 ear in our include a 5 x 3 intersection at Stoddard and thedesign pr i ect does not appear this year by in house staff and that is why this project in house. Right of way and construction in FY '07. Ten Mile capital budget this year because the design is being acquisition will be scheduled for FY 'M nc going to widen the roadway from Franklin Road to Cherry Lane — laneswith curb, gutter and sidewalk and includes also' bei g designed by n 5 x 5 at Franklin and a 4 x 5a t u sition isl going to be in FY 05 and '06 and house staff. Right of way acquisition construction in FY'07. Meridian City Council / ACHD Commlasion Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2064 Page 5 of 27 Eastlake: Madame Mayor. One of the things that concerns me about us going ahead and designing a road like this is that we are designing it assuming it's going to be a road and yet, Ten Mile, obviously is one of the potential locations for ITD to actually have the connection all the way down and once we design this and by right of way and don't buy access — you know if ITD was buying it because they were going to do a limited access roadway and might buy access rights, but we don't buy access rights from property owners, so I think that we need to be real clear that once ACHD designs this road and builds this road under our regular five lane road standard it would be hard for it to be statewide. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. Franden: Madame Mayor. De Weerd: It's the City's intentions through our north Meridian plan and through our comp plan that Ten Mile would not be that connection. It would be Black Cat or another road that we would work with ITD that would designate, but it would be helpful to get ITD, ACHD and the City together to really start solidifying that vision so that these kinds of things can work and compliment each other. Eastlake: So, some place south of Franklin a road is going to connect to a Ten Mile intersection? Is that what your comp plan envisions? De Weerd: I believe that shows something maybe north of Franklin coming into Ten Mile. Anna do you know? Canning: -- (inaudible) a dotted line or anything like that, but I think that the discussion we had and in the community (inaudible ----- ---) somewhere out after that railroad crossing (inaudible------------------)• Eastlake: Mr. President, do we know whether we are taking that into account of all (inaudible----)? Franden: Dorrell will have to answer that one. There seems to me there is an awful lot of decisions that haven't been made. What we are talking about is Highway 16 coming across, right? And joining up some place at Ten Mile for the Ten Mile overpass and interchange. Rountree: Well it doesn't necessarily have to be Ten Mile. it could be another access point. Franden: It could be Black Cat? Rountree: It could be Black Cat. It could be McDermott. It could be Star Road or Robinson Road. That's just a matter of going through the exercises of getting access onto the Interstate, so — Meridian City Council /ACHE Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page B of 27 Eastlake: Mr. President. So, continuing this, if we are just moving forward assuming Ten Mile is going to be a regular ACHD road that has a connection at in (inaudible) at the Interstate at Ten Mile. What I hear you say is that that had in no way changes the possibility that Highway 16 might come across and have an access onto the Interstate someplace else. Rountree: It's possible, but there are other alternatives. Ten Mile is not a particularly easy alternative at this point given the fact that you have Spur Wing at one end and that development and all of the development that is essentially north of Pine. Eastlake: And there really could be two intersections just a mile apart because Meridian has really enough of an urban area that like Boise that has intersections at Vista and Broadway and Orchard and it's possible that we could — Bird: You mean interchanges? Eastlake: Yes, interchanges just a mile apart. You think? Rountree: The past policy is that every two miles — Eastlake: Well, I know but Boise has (inaudible---) — Rountree: -- there seems to be some softening about every mile at this point. What are the alternative that looks the best in terms of (inaudible------) jurisdictions between cities and counties that are connections across the river and those sorts of things? Franden: Mr. Bivens. Bivens: Mr. Chairman, it appears to me that this schedule is pretty much in line with what is occurring and ITD has the study going on where that the location of that interchange is going to (inaudible) and to me this may or may not be Ten Mile as it stands today, it may be there or somewhere else. So, to me the planning schedule is about right on course and that (inaudible) study — Charlie, when is that going to be back? Rountree: I don't have a date on the top of my head here. I am thinking that probably it's eight months out. Bivens: Okay, I guess I had the month of April floating around. April or May — Rountree: That could be. I could check, but I don't recall at this point. Meridian City Council 1 ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 7 of 27 Bivens: Anyway, I think that when we get that — this planning that is going on, 1 think it would be probably right in line with what we are doing. Franden: Mr. Wynkoop. Wynkoop: The point is still well taken, but we don't want to waste money on either a design or acquisition of right of way that ends up at cross purposes with the findings of the ITD studies. So, I guess back to Dorrell just in terms of coordinating the timing on those two, when did you say that we are working on design and is that consistent with the timing of the conclusions from the ITD study? Hansen: Mr. President and Commissioner Eastlake. To begin with this is being designed as a five lane arterial local roadway. We are not taking into consideration anything with regard to ITD. (Speaker unknown): Are you designing it now? Hansen: We are designing it now. And it will — we are planning right of way acquisition in '05 and'06 and then construction in '07. De Weerd: I think you are designing it correctly. In our comprehensive plan, we had no intention for that to be a state highway. Look at the land usage and it isn't and certainly I would encourage our staff's to all get together and start looking at it. We will be addressing it, I am sure, in the long-range plan, but I guess in the north Meridian plan and in our comp plan we envisioned it would not be Ten Mile. Ten Mile would be an interchange site and that any connection from Highway 16 could also if it did have it's own direct access who would (inaudible) and those wanting to go to the East Wood go to Ten Mile and those going to the left, would go to McDermott. Those were the two points that were identified in the 1-84 Corridor Study. That's kind of the assumptions that we were working off of. Franden: Keith? Bird: I basically would say the same thing. We have never seen a scenario where that section at Ten Mile would ever be part of a state highway and I hope you guys will continue on doing what you are doing and keep on schedule with it because I don't — I think it would be — all the scenarios have been south of Franklin Road where they have tied in from Black Cat. Rountree: That's the tough piece, south of Franklin. I think this design concept is consistent. Hansen: If I may back up one slide I forgot to mention on this Overland Road, Meridian to Linder project, we will also improve the intersection of Meridian and Overland Road at the same time we build this project in '07 and that is going to Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 8 of 27 be improved to a 7 x 7 intersection. The next project is Black Cat Road from Franklin to Cherry Lane, This Is going to be a cooperative project and it is going to be constructed by the City of Meridian with their sewer improvements on Black Cat Road and ACHD will participate in the project to improve the gravel base that's in the roadway and also share in the new paving on the roadway. This project is going to be constructed this fiscal year. Eastlake: How many lanes? Hansen: We will put it back to the same number of lanes — two lanes. Next we have State Highway 69 or Meridian Road and Victory Road and this project is in just to add a signal to the intersection. Don't anticipate any roadwork on State Highway 69, maybe a little bit of widening on Victory Road. We plan to design this and potentially even construct it in this fiscal year. This is State Highway 20/26, Chinden and the Meridian intersection. This is an ITD project. The north lane of the intersection will be realigned to better match up with the south (inaudible). They are going to install our right hand turn lane from westbound Chinden onto northbound Meridian and the project has already been awarded to Central Paving and there is going to be a start date of October 4th, so that's today and a completion date of December 17th. The last thing I have is some overlay projects that we are going to be doing. We have two different overlay projects. We have got our federal aid overlays and we have got our local overlays. Its part of our federal overlays in '05. We will be overlaying Ustick Road from Linder to Meridian and then as part of our local overlays, we will be overlaying Linder Road from Turtle Creek to Ustick and also as part of our local overlays we will be doing Fairview to Locust Grove to Eagle Road. That concludes my presentation. I would be more than happy to answer any questions. Franden: Any questions for Dorrell? Ms. Eastlake? Eastlake: Back in the very beginning, you talked about designing something in hopes of getting different (inaudible) — if we possibly (inaudible-------), And you talked just a little bit about how much federal aid we have programmed and how much we might get if the new T21 or whatever they call it, passes? Hansen: Mr. President, Commissioner Eastlake. I am going to defer to Katie Levihn. Levihn: Hello, Katie Levihn for the record. President and Mayor and other members present here. The project that Dorrell is talking about actually did get programmed at the end of the year here in federal aid for PD. That's why we are starting the concept report now and the latest on T21 reauthorization is we just met with Federal Highways this morning on a different matter, but of course that is the topic that is of interest to everyone. There has been a continuing resolution to keep going until November 20th fully funded. It's actually been extended to continue the program until May 319t, but that is going to take an Meridian City Council / ACWD Comrnission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 9 of 27 additional set of continuing resolutions to keep it going. So, at this point we don't know what is going to happen with T21. Everyone is crossing their fingers that we will get additional funding and we are trying to position ourselves with that through this round of putting projects like this one that Dorrell is talking about and preparing other ones to submit through COMPASS for the adding into the program. I wish I could be more definitive. Franden: Thanks, Katey. Any other questions for Dorrell? De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. Franden: Mayor. De Weerd: I guess our staff and myself and commissioners too. Your staff met (inaudible) future projects and talked about some of the future funds that had been (inaudible) up to ask about intersection improvements in our north Meridian area and it just doesn't seem like the north Meridian area can ever get off the center point and we are really interested to see how we can work together to get some relief up there in congestions and see how we could play a role in that and working with the development community. Again, we have this open (inaudible) finding out there that we would like to utilize and it doesn't seem like we are getting anywhere. A second one as we looked on updates the safety bussing at Sawtooth Elementary has been working okay, but there is still after school activities, there is still a lot of congestion when those kids are walking to and from those after school activities and a number of parents had contacted my office to see when that pathway, that temporary pathway that was talked about was going to go in and I think I understood now that they didn't think it was needed, so it's now not going to go in and there is concern about that. The parents that have been driving their kids, anticipating at some point that path will be going in so the kids could walk. So, I would like an update on those two items. Franden: Well, the first one would be on the intersections and what we did when we reallocated dollars and than where we might be in the future. Terry can you tell us, or maybe whoever, which intersections we added in on the reallocation? Mike has got it. Okay. Bruce, I know your people did a survey and spent some time out there taking a look at children who were walking and children that were also using bicycles and if my memory is correct the number of walking was one and the number using bicycle was one, so Bruce brought that to us. Mayor we just felt at this time that there are so many needs out there, not that this isn't a legitimate need, but there is a number of them out there that are even prior to — we just felt that the expenditure of dollars, that $30,000 on our part we couldn't justify it at this point and time. I believe — did we also ask you to go back through, Bruce, and ask Meridian and the school district to — (inaudible) so we just decided right at this time it didn't appear to be warranted. Meridian City Councl / ACHD Commission special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 10 of 27 De Weerd: I guess since we tried to get communication out in front to the parents, I know there was a lot of concern. This was brought up at several parentheacher meetings, PTA meetings between the principal and the parents. They knew it was a temporary solution and they have been driving their kids. Now, I guess if the understanding was that was going to go in and maybe they have been temporarily finding other solutions with the anticipation with that pathway going in, but the calls I have been getting are more of those that are in football or after school activities that are walking not during that (inaudible) as they get out of school at areas for times - I don't know when your survey was, but they are walking and at that time of day its more the rush hour peak traffic that they are dealing with and there continues to be concern. So, I don't know how to respond to you, but these parents need to know then that plans are changing because that is their understanding coming into it as was the school districts. Franden: Ms. Eastlake Eastlake: First of all, I am not familiar with the area, so I don't have the specifics, but we have had a process of prioritizing - they brought to school projects and that I don't know for six or seven years at least but the Terry has kept a list and my concern here is how did this school get the impression that they were somehow going to get moved up to the front of the list or - I mean, certainly the school district knew that when they built the school there that there were no sidewalks, there was nothing, no place for the kids to walk when they chose to build the school there. We didn't have a road project there or any sign that they were going to build sidewalks so I don't know how they got the impression that they were going to move to the front of the list and get some kind of solution before all these other schools, who have been asking for many, many years to get improvements to get their kids walking to school. De Weard: Do you want me to answer that? Franden: Sure. De Weerd: From ACRD. We had a meeting with the schools, with Ada County Highway District and the City. Eastlake: We being Meridian? We and the school district? De Weerd: ACHD. Eastlake: And who from ACHD? De Weerd: Who all was there? Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 11 of 27 Speaker?: Mr. Wynkoop, myself, Bruce, Commissioner Bivens, I believe. Were you there that day? (Inaudible discussion --- Speaker?: Who would you like to attend that meeting? So, that's what the commission came up with. Speaker?: If I might go ahead — Eastlake: Yeah, but that's after the school was already built. Speaker?: This was just two months ago. De Weerd: In July. Franden: So, what we had, Tammy kind of started this out by saying we have got an emergency here and so with the Commission's direction, we — two of the Commissioners met with Linda Clark and her staff and Tammy and some of her staff, we looked at that and we asked Bruce to come back with some possible suggestions and look at that as whether it was an emergency. Bruce came back with a couple of ideas including that path. Everybody thought that that was a good idea to try to accommodate the emergency. 1 think it may have been one of the meetings you were not at Ms. Eastlake. We did discuss this as a whole Commission. Eastlake: ON no, I remember discussing it, but at that point had the parents already been told they were getting a path? Franden: So, the update, then was we asked Bruce to take a look at what is the actual usage and Bruce and his staff took a look at that after school started and concluded that the usage was very minimal. Also, the Meridian School District provided us with information that they were able to do the safety bussing, which of course doesn't necessarily help with the after school activities. So, the new information is that in terms of the overall priority system we have got, there are situations all over the valley where we have missing sidewalks that need to be addressed. So, we have a program to do that and put it into that priority system. The question with respect to Sawtooth Middle School is do we have an emergency? And I believe the Commission after it received the briefing from our staff concluded that we do not have an emergency. The second piece of information was at that joint meeting, we had discussed about some kind of a cost sharing arrangement and as certainly as to be expected, the Meridian School District said we've spent our budget on this project so we would not be able to be a participant in any kind of cost sharing and essentially, Mayor, the City communicated to us that well that's what ACHD gets paid taxes for, so we are not sure it is appropriate to the City to do a cost sharing. So, basically, with Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 12 of 27 that information and kind of the new information that it did not appear to be as urgent an emergency as we first thought it might be. At that point, we concluded as a Commission that we will put it in the regular program, but that this isn't a crisis that has to be addressed Immediately. Or, alternatively, how do you argue that it's a higher priority crisis than some of the other needs that have been (inaudible). De Weerd: I guess just to add to that the City did (inaudible) the funds, the portion that ACHD came to us on the sidewalk program as a partner to solutions like this and also I mentioned our funding at that time, but we do want to bring solutions to the table and we felt we were doing our part, work with funding the study. It was communicated to the parents once those decisions were made at parent meetings because parents were very concerned about the safety and the walking and the topography out there was very low shoulders and you know, its a big safety concern. So, this is your PR thing. It's not mine. I have gotten several phone calls and I did get an email from Bruce and I have passed it on to those couple parents that it looks like this, but I am not going to have anything to do with it. I had asked your staff last spring that we come to the table and start looking at this because, yeah, school is plopped right in the middle of nowhere and this should be our lesson learned that now anything future we need to take a look at this and the development community needs to be a part of it. School District, they stepped up and they felt there funding portion was the safety bussing and at which is a pretty penny to them as well. So, we do have these parents driving their kids to school and they thought it was temporary. If I have to tell them you better start dumping them out on the street, so they can show up in your counts, I don't know. I don't think that's a solution. I thought we were all moving forward - I'm sorry, I am a little bit too direct, I think - Eastlake: I bet there are other Meridian Schools that are already in on this where kids are walking - they are being safety bussed probably and they are walking if they are staying for after school programs and stuff like that. I doubt that this is the only Meridian School that has got that problem. Bird: Excuse me, Mr. President. Its not only the City of Meridian that has got this problem. I am like the Mayor, I wouldn't attempt to let my kids walk there now. I would take them and that's what's happening. But, two wrongs don't make a right. We made a wrong when we let the facility go in without thinking ahead to do this, but that don't make it right its unsafe and I don't know of any other schools in the City of Meridian that is even close to this as far as being unsafe. Franden: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Mr. President, thank you, Commissioner Eastlake. One of the concerns with this school is that it's on a major collector with the river crossing with large traffic counts and there are no sidewalks and very narrow shoulders. So, Meridian City Council IACHD Commission special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 14 of 27 could we do. You know, what could be done on a non -expensive basis and came out the gravel would be a possibility to do, but I don't like being put into a position by somebody saying that we would do something and I am not sure that we said that. The other thing that really irritates me is that this project went ahead of building a school and i am not sure that — and we may have been, but 1 am not sure that the Highway District was brought in as a (inaudible) partner on that at that point and time as far as safety was concerned. Now, l just feel almost like — you know that the person that somebody went and bought a dog next door and now I have got to build a great big fence to keep the dog out of my yard. It just kind of irritates me a little bit. De Weerd: I think everyone was caught with their tail hanging out there. The school district, the Highway District and the City. We all approved this project being put there and no one really looked at how things were going to connect to it. I certainly know we learned something through our planning staff and City Council that we may take a look at it, but we don't really plan the sidewalks, we like you, have sometimes just a narrow look at it, but we all need to start looking a little bit farther and this one project certainly opened our eyes to that and I think it opened all of our eyes to it. Franden: I will just say one more thing and then let others. But, your are absolutely right. We have got so many needs in the area of sidewalks around our schools throughout this county that is unbelievable and one of the things that we have done is that we have gone in for a five million dollar request to HUD and for our congressional delegation to help us to get money; to start getting larger blocks of money, so we can address these problems throughout the county. One idea that came up when we were meeting with Eagle a couple of weeks ago was that we, as the Highway District and the cities and the county that we come up with a list of things and a presentation that we can make to our congressional delegation as a whole, as the cities, all of us to let that congressional delegation understand how desperate some of these needs are and solicit their help. So, that's one way that we are going to get the money that we really need to have to do these things right. (Inaudible --------------) Wynkoop: Two points. One is theirs is kind of quicker funding for safety bussing that I (inaudible -----) out there and I don't purport to be an expert on the latest developments in that, but one thing we might want to check and be careful about is we don't want to build a pathway that turns out maybe not to be a total solution, but that it at least provides some access such that the school district loses it's safety bussing and funding. They get reimbursed for state authorized safety bussing and so when I found out at the meeting that the school district — (Tape turned over) Wynkoop: -- create a more serious safety problem than now exists. But, the path itself was never going to be the total safety solution here. It was a help, but Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 15 of 27 there is other safety issues in the Valley and I don't know the answers on that, but we don't want to inadvertently through that (inaudible -) and create an even more unsafe situation. Then second, I guess, is the point that I think everybody is making is that we do need to learn lessons from this — I think all three agencies and certainly there is a new statute that was adopted to kind of post date the approval of Sawtooth, I think it just took effect just recently, but I believe our staff is going to be looking much more carefully at the bigger picture. Not just the access points. I mean, I think we were all in this kind of box where here is the things we look at. This has opened our eyes to say here is a new subset of things that we better look at because this isn't going to be the last one that were are going to see. If you look at the Meridian School District's inventory of available sites, many of their sites are going to be on this same situation. They can't wait to buy a site until the road has been built to five lanes and the subdivisions have all been built out. They have got to somehow get that site before the whole area is fully developed with subdivisions and roads. This is going to be just a really ongoing thing where we are going to see many of these very kinds of sites, especially from middle and high schools. The elementaries they are trying to put more in the middle of subdivisions so usually by the time the school is built you will have much of the curb, gutter, sidewalks built, but for their middle schools and their high schools all their sites are going to be just like this one. They are going to be probably mid -mile and on an arterial someplace and they are caught in that dilemma of timing of there won't be curb, gutter and sidewalks. There will be the old narrow two-iane railroad, so until it's fully developed out, how do we safely get kids to those school sites because they have to build the school at some point before total build out. This very scenario is going to be repeated and I think what we are all going to have to do, school districts and ACHD is really look at this a lot more carefully and figure out how to do some interim safety measures until the build out occurs. It's not going to be simple and it's going to involve money. Franden: Ms. Eastlake. Eastlake: Just to follow up on what Mr. Wynkoop was saying. We have the problem that a school district comes in with an application. They are going to access onto a public street. Our only legal ability is to require them to improve the site the (inaudible) of buying their property. We cannot exact from them offsite improvements like we can exact from a developer offsite improvements unless they are directly related to the impact that they are having. So, they come in mid mile and it's a quarter of mile to the intersection both directions and there is no sidewalks and we have no mobility. First of all, we don't own the right of way, probably. We can't require the property owner's to give us right of way. We can't require the school to buy it. We can't require the school to build it. I mean, we have got private property rights. We've got (inaudible) issues. We have got exaction issues. I am not sure if we were where we are today and the school is coming in today that we have a solution to this problem. So, this is what Dave is talking about. We had better start looking at the big picture. But, I am not sure Meridian City Council ! ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 16 of 27 we have the tools. We know exactly what the problem is. I am not sure that we have the tools to solve it. So, it is going to be a continuing problem, if in fact the schools are going to be located on two lane rural roads where there are no improvements and where development has not fully built out a (inaudible). De Weerd: So, knowing all this, we'd better get our staffs together with the school district. Start identifying where these future school sites are, how they are phasing them in and seeing how we can connect and seeing how we can bring solutions to this because it is - as rapidly as that school district is growing, we will have future projects just like this. We had better be prepared and I heard they bought a site up on McMillan along that wonderful huge ditch and so we definitely know we have a future issue up there. So, if all of staffs can get together and start seeing how and what solutions we can bring to it and even if it is grant eligible to start even pursuing it in that fashion, but we have to find something. Eastlake: But then what I wanted to finish with is I am not sure that we want to be in the position of building just wider shoulders. I am not a person who thinks we are not maybe taking on liability. By just building wide shoulders and having fifth/sixth graders walking down wide shoulders and saying that solved the problem. I mean sidewalks have got a reason that they are - they have got a curb and they are separated from the street is because kids tend to wander around when they are walking to school. They don't stay in some little narrow line and I am not sure just how many shoulders is (inadudible-------). Bivens: Just as a follow up to again having been on both sides of this, I certainly don't want to create a problem for the school district that I feel a very high degree of loyalty to, but it may come to a point where if consequences of locating on a rural two lane section it could may be that the school district will have to put into their bond some calculation for at least some of the facilities that there were some way to even partner with ACHD findings so that we are not after the fact looking at that because their dilemma is once they have spent all the bond proceeds on a site, they have no way of doing these things. But, it may be in order to get the cheaper ground by going a little bit ahead of the development cycle it may be that one of the costs ends up being that they are going to have to figure out a way to add into the bond cost some of the pedestrian facility or maybe there are some other solutions, but I think that the idea is excellent that we really ought to urge you a task force between our staff, Wendell and his staff and Anna and her staff to try to say look this is going happen again, now what lessons have we learned from this and what are we going to do next time? Speaker?: I think we really got that already started. We got that started that day we met with (inaudible---). Bivens: How we do anything or -? Meridian City Council 1 ACRD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 17 of 27 Speaker?: Communication started — Bivens: Bruce is there a formal working group on this yet or —? Mills: Mr. President, Madame Mayor. No, there is not an official one yet. We have met with the Meridian School (inaudible-------) the new state statute just came out a year and one half ago, I believe, that says that we must address these issues in a lot more detail than the developer must. The Highway District is tasked with looking at all those issues (inaudible-----) the development comes forward for a school site, pedestrian all of the pedestrian crossing issues, bicycles — there is about 20 different items that has to be addressed. We have met with Wendell Began of the school district to talk about those items so that in the future development of (inaudible) brings forward he is going to have to hire a traffic engineer to address a lot of those issues and they will be addressed in more detail in the reports that we get that we pass along to the city that we bring along to the commission. Bivens: But I think a working group, at least the three parties, sit down and say how are we going to address this in the future? We are very much open to ideas, but one possibility may be that you have got to put in some funding in your bond calculations and that's usually two, three or four years ahead of the site opening and it may actually be even at the land acquisition stage. It may be that the school district is going to have to formulate in the cost benefit of a particular site acquisition, while we can get this site that maybe has already some pedestrian facilities or we can get this site, but if we get this site we are going to have to factor into it some additional costs where the creation of a pedestrian facility. I am— Eastlake: m— Eastlake: Because that's just a Meridian School — Bivens: But, this is like three, four or five years ahead planning of a school opening — Eastlake: David, is this a Kuna school problem as well and a Boise school problem as well or are we just not (inaudible------) — Bivens: It's not a Boise school problem because Boise is not building any new schools at the present (inaudible-----) Bird: Boise should be included because we got as many facilities in the city limits of Boise as we do in Meridian. Bivens: They are all pretty well built out areas. Franden: Well, in the interest of time we will keep — the thing that I just wanted to emphasize is we are all very sensitive to the problem. We all are concerned. Meridian City Council/ ACRD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 18 of 27 We all are parents. We all understand, but one of the main things, Mayor, is the counts for one thing, didn't warrant. The other is that there are so many that are before this one that need to be addressed. So, somehow we will figure out how to tackle all of these as we go. Okay? Thank you. De Weerd: Just as long as you communicate with the school and deal with them, right? Franden: Don't you want to? De Weerd: This is your thing. Not mine. I usually just facilitate. Franden: Oh, okay, okay. Item 2. Update on Meridian Transportation Management Plan - City of MeridiaMACHD: De Weerd: Who was updating on the transportation plan? Bird: City of Meridian. Canning: President, Mayor and others present. I like the way that Katey said that that shortened everything up quite a bit. I was hoping our new transportation planner was going to give you the update today, but he is in Disneyland with his family, so that was a good thing. So, I can give you a brief update and hopefully the ACHD members of the staff that are on the Steering Committee with me can help me out as needed and that would be Terry and Bruce. On Thursday the Steering Committee met with the consultants and they showed us their presentation that they would be giving later that night and it really was a great presentation on traffic modeling and what goes into the models and showing that it's not a black box, there really is something that goes on in that black box and how the numbers come out; very informative, great slideshow and then just as background information and then we went through — they had nine listed, but it was probably about 15 different alternatives that they wanted the Steering Committee to review and pick six of those that they would go forward and do the modeling on. So, we did go through those. We had a lot of discussion and in the end we had quite a bit of consensus from the Steering Committee on where we wanted to go and then the hope was that that night they would take the presentation to the general public and they would get some ideas, if we'd missed anything along the way. Unfortunately, it was the night of the debates and they had a miserable turnout. They only had eight people show up and this is compared to 40 or 50 people that they had been getting for these things in the past. So, they were very disappointed in that and I'll leave it at that. The scenarios that they are going forward with and this is where Terry and Bruce will come in handy, if I can remember the six. One was just going with the transportation improvements that are planned. So, that is kind of the no change Meridian City Council f ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 19 of 27 scenario. One would be the five -lane Meridian Road. Another one was kind of a innovative couplet that they had come up with that wasn't going through downtown, it would end before downtown, but it would facilitate the left-hand turns that are westbound on Franklin to all that development kind of on the west end of town, which was one of the issues that came up in their preliminary analysis as important. Another one was the original couplet as proposed by ACHD a number of years ago. They were going to look at a round -a -bout at the Corporate — Meridian — Main intersection just because that's really the only way to deal with the Waltman Lane issues, so they did want to look at that as one of the alternatives and then a 3rd street connection extension of 3`d to 2 '% or just extending 3rd is another one. So, those were the primary ones. We had a lot of discussion about four lane Meridian verses five lane and could that be kind of incorporated into one scenario and then we were able to pull some things into the general discussion as the base case scenario and some of those were Waltman Lane, right in right out only and some other just kind of standard improvements that we felt should be added to the base case scenario. So, that was the recommendations out of the Steering Committee. When they took it to the general public, they commented the most on the kind of modified couplet and just kind of had this how on earth will that ever work out feeling about it. So, they weren't too keen on that. Most of the — but, 1 think that what they got was on a four lane verses five lane Meridian Road and straightening out that alignment. So, that is what I know to this point and I am sorry I didn't get an update from Steve before he left Franden: Questions for Anna? Eastlake: None of these have gotten to a point of actually estimating costs, yet? Canning: No, this was just narrowing down the large set of alternatives to six. The next step is to take those six and to go down to three and then I think they do their evaluation, their full evaluation on the three. So, they will do some preliminary evaluations on these six. Franden: Thanks. Mike I forgot to get back to you on the intersections, the Mayor's questions. Brokaw. For the record I am Mike Brokaw the manager of administrative services and treasurer. I will just read you the list that the Commission reallocated some funds from after we had adopted our budget. The first one is Cloverdale and Fairview moving up the design from FY '08. The second one was Franklin and Maple Grove, it was moving up the design to coordinate with a federal aid project. Fifth Street and Front, that was construction. State Highway 69 and Victory, that's the design portion and State Highway 69 and Deer Flat, which is also moving up the design. Terry made a quick look at what some of the signals in the north Meridian area, where they were falling in his prioritization list and I believe Franklin and Linder is currently scheduled for construction in 2007. Meridian CRy Council /ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 20 of 27 Ustick and Linder is scheduled for 2009 and Ustick and Meridian is still in preliminary development or PD. So, that's what we did in reallocation process and that's where some of the signals in the north Meridian area stand right now. Franden: Questions for Mike? None. Mike, thank you. De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. Franden: Mayor. De Weerd: I guess just to get our staffs together and start looking at what would you do on north Meridian? We are getting an awful lot of people out there on (inaudible) where stop intersections and again we have an open ending finding that these developments are supposed to be participating in some kind of transportation improvements and if we continue to ignore it, well our window will close. Rountree: It will be built out. De Weerd: Exactly. This was our opportunity and our attempt to do something that maybe ACHD couldn't do, but we need to get our staffs together and see what we can. Franden: Any comments from staff at all as far as any work that is being done or planned to be with the City of Meridian staff? And the other question I have is on the north Meridian (inaudible ) what the status is of that. De Weerd: It's all hung up on transportation. Franden: How? De Weerd: On finding these solutions. On seeing if we can fill these findings. All the rest of the plan is done. We are waiting on the transportation. Franden: All the land use is done and all of those things; sewer, water and so on and so forth? De Weerd: Uh hmm. Franden: Mr. Mills. Mills: Mr. President, Madam Mayor and others this is an issue that we have — I think I have sat up here before and talked about this several times in previous joint meetings. At the present time, the north Meridian area, the way it is being handled is through the CIP, that is the method that we have in place. We collect impact fees and they are supposed to pay for all improvements needed in the Meridian City Council/ ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 21 of 27 next 20 years. That plan will be updated to — it has to be updated in three years and probably again in 2006. At that point, if the continuing growth in north Meridian area occurs, I anticipate that it will probably kick more projects into the north Meridian area that will need to be funded in that next CIP. Until then, yes, there is some language that goes into the staff reports that leaves the development open to potential other fees as needed or required and the one that has been talked about has been an extraordinary impact fees, however, that shoe hasn't seemed to fit yet in the north Meridian area. In other words there is still a fair amount of capacity on those roads. Yes, there is some congestion that is building up at certain intersections. Not generally for an extended period of time. Traffic is probably better to address that than I am, but at this present time, the course we are on is through the CIP and the impact fee program to arbitrarily throw in any type of extraordinary fees, we would have to basically define an area, figure out what projects would need to go in that area and create an extraordinary an (inaudible) district that would assess extraordinary fees on top of our impact fees. However, I don't know that we could justify that at this time because we are saying that we have a CIP that covers that. Franden: Ms. Eastlake. Eastlake: I think that Bruce has said it, but I don't know if people are understanding it. When we started the north Meridian plan with this idea that it was going to be a real look at the un -fundable costs within the infrastructure in the north Meridian area and it was going to address the system, where development could pay for it's costs. What happened is that the north Meridian planned basically, in my opinion, said there is no need that the development will pay enough in the system that's in place to cover the cost of their development impacts and there isn't any need for another funding source. Then just either at the same time we are following right on it, our citizens committee to update our impact fees looked at the capital improvement process and said that based on the growth model that came from COMPASS and the traffic analysis of that growth model in the next 20 years, this (inaudible) impact fees are going to be adequate and the other sources that the other district has to match those are going to be added to do all the improvements. So, there is nothing left. The law won't let us say to somebody you have to pay us more money when we don't have anything — we don't have a north Meridian plan, we don't have a capital improvement plan, we have nothing that says the resources aren't adequate to pay for the needs. We can't be out there just charging money if we don't have something that shows there is a need that is not going to be funded. I don't know where we go with it. Franden: Commissioner Wynkoop. Wynkoop: The problem I am having with that is that's not what Washington Group said. Washington Group said there is going to be a serious funding deficit or either that or I misunderstood it, or maybe they are just wrong, but that's the Meridian City Council / ACHD Commisslon Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 22 of 27 dilemma I am having and the frustration is I thought we commissioned on Washington Group study and they said there was going to be this huge deficit out in the north Meridian area that impact fees won't cover. Mills: Mr. President and others, if I could address that I believe that what the Washington Group did was they said these are at full build out this is what's going to be required in the north Meridian area. I think the disconnect there was that they listed every project that was ever going to be needed at full build out in the north Meridian area. It did not say okay, but what's needed in the next 20 years? It just said regardless of time line, given the zoning land use of those parcels, this is what's going to be needed out there and they listed those projects and what the costs in that would be, but I do not believe that they meant that over a 20 year period. De Weerd: Mr. President. Franden: Mayor. De Weerd: And I believe (inaudible) those deficits we thought this finding could help bring a solution to and that it didn't have to be on the CIP, that it looked at the area as a whole and what can we do — what can the City ask for in our findings that maybe ACHD couldn't ask for and that's what we continue to struggle to try and find and again, you know, with the cautionary note that those opportunities diminish everyday, every building permit and we would just like to — if it's your staffs opinion there is absolutely nothing that we can do at that finding, then we will just close that loop, that finding and say okay I guess the intention was good. The city wanted to ask for something that, perhaps, you couldn't, but we just — we would like to find out a definitive answer. Is there something that we can be putting in that condition that we can ask for or not? Franden: Commissioner Eastlake. Eastlake: Mr. President, Madam Mayor. I think that the one thing that we are going to have a talk about this I think Wednesday — the one thing that I think our CIP is really having the tough time addressing is the fact that we have to decide in the CIP whether we are going to (inaudible--) a three lane road or five lane road. If we say we are going to build a three lane road, it'll come back that the demand is for maybe 10 years earlier and if we say we are going to build a five lane road, so that where we might need a three lane road in 2009, we probably don't need a five lane road until 2019 or something like that. The difficulty is if we put in three lane roads and we don't get the right of way for five, we can't then build five lane roads 10 years later because developments come along and so it seems to me that that's a place where we might — where there might be something we can do here by saying ACHD is going to decide to use either a CIP three lane roads and that will move up the timeframe for construction of those improvements. But, at the same time, we might — maybe there is some way that Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 28 of 27 we can say that because these roads have to go to five lanes in the next 10 years that the city could as a condition require that that extra (inaudible) figure or whatever it is be left undeveloped, not that we don't purchase it because we can't use impact fees to purchase it, I think, if it's only a three lane road and we don't do it for five to ten years, but maybe there is some way that we can figure out how to state the need as a three lane road, so that it gets into the CIP earlier, so that the construction costs do come here, the intersection costs and all that, but then we somehow say but for right away purposes we need to preserve five lanes in the development application. So, that 10 years later we can then come back and buy that extra 15 feet or whatever it is on each side. So, maybe that's what we ought to be talking about is some way to focus the CIP on the short term needs and the long term needs both and figure out how the city can then help us do the right of way preservation because right now we are leaving this — we are giving reports that say the applicant can do this or this or this, trying to get some system to make sure they don't build in that place and don't put their sidewalks someplace that we are going to tear the sidewalks out and maybe that's what we need to do. De Weerd: And, I think that those were the kind of things that were even discussed, even to the point of only having a continuous sidewalk on at least one side of that arterial and not having to do the curb, gutter and sidewalks and seeing how early we could get the intersections at least built and you know worrying about the rest of the arterial later and those were all ideas that were tossed around and — Eastlake: —and we haven't gotten any further for it. De Weerd: — we have never gotten any further for it. Eastlake: And the other thing I remember us talking about was this idea of offering the developer, especially if they are doing a lot of the frontage. You know a third (inaudible) half a mile. Maybe, they would step up and build a whole mile on one side and agree to be reimbursed, you know, sometime later because it would sell their project. You know, I mean there's those kind of things too that we haven't really done too much of. Franden: Commissioner Wynkoop. Wynkoop: Tammy I appreciate you trying to force this issue because you are exactly right. We have frustration — you have been trying to help us. We keep putting this stuff in our north Meridian reports and it's getting us nowhere. It's either time to figure out what it means and do something specific or forget about it and just say north Meridian is like the rest of the county. So, how do we bring this to a head, Bruce and Anna? Franden: Commissioner Bivens. Meridian City Council 1 ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 24 of 27 Bivens: I guess the point that I wanted to point out and I certainly and totally agree with what has been said as far as being able to — if the developer is voluntarily willing to set aside that land, but if they are not, to me we are wide open for taking controversy, which we are (inaudible) of — so I think maybe we lack the tools to be able to accomplish what you say and you are right. This is a tough one because some way we need to set aside some land and that corridor preservation, I sat on the transportation committee there in the house and we had about three to four bills in there that we hadn't done nothing — never, yet that's the (inaudible---). De Weerd: Mr. Chairman. Franden: Madam Mayor. De Weerd: Just to bring this to a close is its these kind of discussions that our staff are supposed to have and then to go to the development community and see if we could bring some solid solutions to the table and do something with that finding. But, you know there has to be some work done to even go to the development community (inaudible) and then we can do something with that finding or not, but again I don't want to see this go on too much longer this week do lose our ability to affect anything positive. Franden: Also, I saw Bruce and Anna over there conferring with each other. Do you have a plan? Canning: Yes sir, Mr. President, Madame Mayor and others. Despite my first flippant remark, I am sorry. I think there are a couple of ideas and I just talked to Bruce and I think if ACHD makes it clear what their eventual right of way needs will be, I think we can work with that with the developers and they are pretty understanding. It gets frustrating to them when they hear what's in the CIP and planning staff is saying, but we know we are going to need more eventually and they are like well you are not the road people and so it's frustrating to them. So, I think if we have that information from ACHD that would help. Also, when we started re -looking at north Meridian area plan, it was my understanding from the development community that the land use issues were no longer a problem, but recently they have been harping on me on those, too, so some of those we started with those transportation issues associated with north Meridian area plan thinking that that was really the remaining issue, but there are some land use issues that are still outstanding apparently. So, I have committed to working going back to that and looking at those overall land use issues and the development community is very interested in that, so we can talk to them again about some of those things. The one that really seems the most difficult is the question about how can we get some of these intersection improvements done in advance whether the developers funding them, what kind of incentive can ACHD give them and I think that that's the one thing where we really need your help is Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 25 of 27 how can — what carrot can you throw out there to have them do? Because I think it does have to be a carrot. I think we are all — our hands are tied as far offsite improvements, so — Franden: Could we ask that your staff and our staff get together this month and then by the end of the month we have a report — if nothing else is just to grow more report on what progress has been made and what direction we are going and keep this on the bumer and keep — what we could do is we'll ask that at least once every month that we have an updated report so we are moving in the -- Eastlake: Maybe we ought to have another meeting with Meridian just on this issue. Bird: We need to because — Eastlake: Just schedule a special meeting — Franden: Okay. De Weerd: Let's throw Item 3 on there, too, since it's late (Inaudible discussion) Franden: Is there anything else? The only thing I would just like to say in closing is that I really appreciated this meeting and it's really evident to me is the pressures that are put on both of us because of growth and what we are having to respond to and we are all doing our very best, I apologize if I got a little bit excited over the school issue and the access there. I guess it's just part of what we are all dealing with, but what we decide to do is to work as closely as we can with you and the city and do whatever we can to do what is best. De Weerd: And I agree, John, we want to know how we can make a difference with the traffic situation and some Meridian improvement online as quickly as possible and 1 know that there are some things that you can't answer and if there are things that we can, we certainly would like to bring that into our findings and be more help to your efforts and so that's all we area trying to do. Eastlake: Do you (inaudible---) the charge on Dr. Freilich, does it take into account any of this? I mean, is the kind of thing that he might begin an address or is that —? Franden: I think so (Inaudible discussion) Franden: I see (inaudible) nodding his head. Meridian City Council ACHO Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2QO4 Page 26 of 27 Eastlake: Because 1 think his expertise is so broad. De Weerd: I think we are all real vague on what's (inaudible---). Rountree: I think the long-range transportation plan should address what these (inaudible ---) look like. Eastlake: And it seems to me that maybe somewhere we can solve the pedestrian problem, too. Maybe if we can get five lane corridors preserved, while we are building three lane roads and we can put the sidewalks back at the edge of the five lane corridor or we can get the sidewalks in there even if we don't have the street improvements in there. We can get the intersections done. You know, I mean maybe there is a way to piece meal some of these projects in a way that cannot have to all be torn up. That's the problem, we are so stuck on — we don't want to build sidewalks and then tear them out. Bird: It's a money (inaudible-----). Inaudible discussion. De Weerd: Well, we like the detach, so just make a detach and maybe they are not as — Franden: The detached at the full five -lane build out and everything Eastlake: Except the problem is you don't own the property on the two sides of the developers. De Weerd: So, get your attorney on that. Levihn: Sorry, to interrupt, I was just going to give some good news to the rest of the commission that we received on Friday as part of our funding effort and positioning actions to get us in a position to be recognized on a broader scale than just locally. We submitted for a bicycle friendly community award to the League of American Bicyclists and on Friday, we received a confirmation email that they were going to make an announcement today. We haven't seen it yet. A national award has been given to Ada County Highway District as a bronze winner of the bicycle friendly community award and they have got four different levels. They have got bronze, silver, gold and platinum. Nobody has a platinum, yet. There are two gold in the United States. That's Palo Alto and Portland. Then there is a rash of silver and a rash of bronzes. We are the only countywide district that has received the award. It's all been municipalities before. Although some other counties have applied and it's based, not just on lane miles or connectivity, although that is a big part of it, but also on your policies, your procedures, your maintenance. For instance, our quarter inch special chip seals Meridian City Council / ACHD Commission Special Joint Workshop Meeting October 4, 2004 Page 27 of 27 for the bike lanes on Hill Road. Those kinds of considerations given to bicyclists and every two years they re-evaluate us to see if we stay the same, move up or worse case drop back. But, we wanted to let you know that that should be coming out. Thank you. Item 3. Discussion of Storm Water Retention Ponds — Maintenance and Landscaping Issues — City of Meridian/ACHD (Milia/Brown): tabled to another meeting Franden: Okay, anything else? We are adjourned. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 1:35 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: ATTESTED: 149 DATE APPROVED SEAL, BERG, ITIS