HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 10-05CITY OF MERIDIAN
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, October 5, 2004 at 7:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Shaun Wardle Vacant
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance: Dave McKinnon
3. Community Invocation by Bishop Jeff Winter, with LDS Church:
4. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve
5. Consent Agenda:
A. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 04-
018 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 19.4 acres from RUT to R-
8 zone for Chatsworth Subdivision by Dyver Development, LLC —
west of South Locust Grove Road and south of East Victory Road:
Approve
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
025 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 77 single-family
residential building lots and 4 common lots on 19.4 acres in a
proposed R-8 zone for Chatsworth Subdivision by Dyver
Development, LLC — west of South Locust Grove Road and south of
East Victory Road: Approve
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZZ 04-
008 Request for a Rezone of .23 acre from R-8 to proposed O -T
zone for Larry Knopp by Larry Knopp — 713 North Meridian Road:
Approve
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-019 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a retail and
professional office use in an existing building in the proposed O -T
zone for Larry Knopp by Larry Knopp — 713 North Meridian Road:
Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda —October 3, 2004 Page 1 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 8884433 at lase[ 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-020 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a pharmacy in an
L-0 zone for Medicau Pharmacy by Larry Knopp — east of North
Ten Mile Road on north side of West Cherry Lane: Approve
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAC
04-005 Request for a Vacation of side yard utility and irrigation
easements on Lots 43-45, and Lots 88-91, Block 23, Ashford
Greens Subdivision No. 2 by Brighton Corporation — east of North
Black Cat Road and south of West Ustick Road: Approve
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 04-
010 Request for a Rezone of .68 acre from R-4 to an 0-T zone for
Mittlelder Rezone by Leon Smith — 125 West Cherry Lane and
1645 West 1 Street: Approve
H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: MI 04-
007 Miscellaneous request for an administrative lot split of
unplatted ground for Ronald Van Auker by Ronald Van Auker —
northeast corner of Franklin Road and Gaudians Avenue: Approve
I. Approve Beer and Wine License Renewal for Quik -Wok — 3055
East Fairview Avenue: Approve
J. Well #25 Control System: Approve
K. Streetlight Agreement for Woodside Creek: Approve
L. Land Lease Agreement with Ken Hamilton Presentations:
Table to October 12, 20(
M. Approve Bills: Approve
6. Department Reports: None
7. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) None
8. Public Hearing: AZ 04-022 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 4.91
acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Redfeather Village Subdivision by
Packard Estates Development, LLC — east of North Eagle Road and north
of East Fairview Avenue: Continue Public Hearing to October 12, 2004
Meeting
9. Public Hearing: PP 04-029 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 20
single family residential building lots on 4.91 acres in a proposed R-8 zone
for Redfeather Villaae Subdivision by Packard Estates Development,
Meridian City Council Agenda — October 5,20G4 Page 2 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become properly of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to docum ars and/or hearing
please contact the City Clark's Office at 888.4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
LLC — east of north Eagle Road and north of East Fairview Avenue:
Continue Public Hearing to October 12, 2004 Meeting
10. Public Hearing: CUP 04-029 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
daycare facility for 30 to 40 children in an R-8 zone for Condra Steeves
Daycare Center by Condra and Donald Steeves — 1258 East Cougar
Creek Drive: Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for
Denial
11. Public Hearing: AZ 04-021 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 10
acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Arcadia Subdivision by C7 Development
— 3665 Jericho Road: Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of
Law for Approval
12. Public Hearing: PP 04-028 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 33
single family residential building lots and 3 common lots on 10 acres in a
proposed R-8 zone for Arcadia Subdivision by C7 Development — 3665
Jericho Road: Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for
Approval
13. Public Hearing: VAR 04-006 Request for a Variance from MCC 11-10-6
to allow a childcare/preschool for five or fewer children to be operated in a
required garage area of a single-family home in an R-4 zone for Earl and
Donna Bohm by Earl and Donna Bohm —1451 North Santa Rosa Place:
Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Denial
14. Public Hearing: MI 04-010 Request to a modify the hours of operation
approved previously under CUP 01-016 from 8 am to 10 pm Monday thru
Saturday and 9 am to 9 pm Sunday to 6 am to 10 pm seven days a week
for Cherry Crossina Subdivision by Robnett Construction, Inc. -
northwest corner of West Cherry Lane and North Linder Road: Prepare
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval
15. Public Hearing: MI 04-009 Request to allow a one-time lot division to
separate an un -platted parcel into two parcels in an I -L zone for Jo
Pachner by Joe Pachner — 850 West Franklin Road: Prepare Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval
16. Public Hearing: MI 04-008 Request to modify the condition of the
approved Preliminary Plat regarding the 5 -foot wide asphalt pathway
within Nampa Meridian Irrigation District's easement for Castlebrook
Subdivision No. 3 by Liberty Development, Inc. — east of North Black Cat
Road and south of West Cherry Lane: Prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for Approval
17. Water, Sewer, & Trash Delinquencies: Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda —October 5, 2004 Page 3 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become properly of the City of Meridien
Anyone dasiting accommodation for disabilities related to documents andlor hearing
please contact the City Clark's Office at 8884433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
18. Ordinance No. 04-1104 : AZ 04015 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 1+/- acre from RUT to R-8 zone for proposed ftqEg
Garden Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. — 2490 North Locust
Grove: Approve
19. Ordinance No. 04-1105 Sewer Use and Service Regulations
Revision: Approve
20. Ordinance No. 04.1106 Water Use and Service Regulations
Revision: Approve
21. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1Xb): Support
Ownership of Property to Salvation Army for Kroc Center
Meridian City Council Agenda — October 3, 2004 Page 4 of 4
All nmt"s presented at public matings shall became property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing
pleaso contact the City Clerk's OfEce at 888-0433 at least 49 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian Citv Council Meetina October 5. 2004.
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M.,
Tuesday, October 5, 2004, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree, and Shaun
Wardle.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Will Berg, Ann Canning, Brad Watson, John Overton, Kenny
Bowers, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and open the regular City Council meeting and bring
it to order. It is Tuesday, October 5th. It is 7:00 o'clock. Thank you all for joining us
here tonight. We will begin the meeting with roll call attendance.
De Weerd: Thank you. I would like to welcome our new city attorney Mr. Bill Nichols --
or B ill N ary. Well, n ow that you h ave to g et a ccustomed to the Madam M ayor, you
know, I'll have to get accustomed to the Mr. Nary. But welcome.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: It's nice seeing you still up here
Nary: Thank you.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: And welcome all of you. We have Item No. 2 as the Pledge of Allegiance
and Dave McKinnon will lead us in the pledge. Please rise.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Bishop Jeff Winter, with LDS Church:
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Please take a moment and join us
for this item or use it as a moment of silence. Is Mr. -- or Bishop Jeff Winter with us?
Winter: Our kind Heavenly Father, humbly we come to thee with gratitude and
appreciation for the many blessings, which thou bestows upon us. We are grateful for
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 2 of 84
the blessings of freedom. We appreciate those who fight to secure our freedom and are
fighting in our behalf at this time. We ask thee to please bless them with thy Spirit with
protection and care and assistance in their endeavors. We are grateful for the blessing
of community, for the opportunity to live here together to participate in the process
which we have been so blessed and pray that this night all who present and all who
participate in this council meeting will be blessed and assisted, that they will present
their piece and that thy blessing and influence will be upon the decisions made and this
we pray in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
De Weerd: Bishop Winters, if I could present you with one of our City of Meridian pins
and thank you for joining us tonight.
Winters: Thank you very much.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We do have a couple of modifications. One on the Consent Agenda. We need --
Item No. 11 needs to be continued until at least October 12th. And also we need to add
Item 21, an Executive Session, as per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(b). And with that I
move we adopt the revised agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as amended. All
those in favor aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 04-
018 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 19.4 acres from RUT to
R-8 zone for Chatsworth Subdivision by Dyver Development,
LLC — west of South Locust Grove Road and south of East Victory
Road:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
025 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 77 single-family
residential building lots and 4 common lots on 19.4 acres in a
proposed R-8 zone for Chatsworth Subdivision by Dyver
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 3 of 84
Development, LLC — west of South Locust Grove Road and south
of East Victory Road:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 04-
008 Request for a Rezone of .23 acre from R-8 to proposed O -T
zone for Larry Knopp by Larry Knopp — 713 North Meridian Road:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-019 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a retail and
professional office use in an existing building in the proposed O -T
zone for Larry Knopp by Larry Knopp — 713 North Meridian Road:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-020 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a pharmacy in an
L -O zone for Medicap Pharmacy by Larry Knopp — east of North
Ten Mile Road on north side of West Cherry Lane:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: VAC
04-005 Request for a Vacation of side yard utility and irrigation
easements on Lots 43-45, and Lots 88-91, Block 23, Ashford
Greens Subdivision No. 2 by Brighton Corporation — east of North
Black Cat Road and south of West Ustick Road:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 04-
010 Request for a Rezone of .68 acre from R-4 to an O -T zone for
Mittleider R ozone by Leon Smith — 125 West Cherry Lane and
1645 West 1 *t Street:
H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: MI 04-
007 Miscellaneous request for an administrative lot split of
unplatted g round for Ronald Van Auker b y R onald V an A uker —
northeast corner of Franklin Road and Gaudians Avenue:
I. Approve Beer and Wine License Renewal for Quik -Wok — 3055
East Fairview Avenue:
J. Well #25 Control System:
K. Streetlight Agreement for Woodside Creek:
L. Land Lease Agreement with Ken Hamilton Presentations:
M. Approve Bills:
De Weerd: Consent Agenda. Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 4 of 84
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the Consent Agenda with the deletion of
Item L, which will be continued, and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all
proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda with tabling
of Item L to next week. Was it next week or --
Bird: Yeah. October --
De Weerd: Okay. October 14th. I'm sorry.
Bird: 12th.
Rountree: No. 12th.
Bird: You're back in September, Mayor.
De Weerd: Yeah. I know. No one has changed me yet. So, the 12th. Mr. Clerk, will
you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports
Item 7: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. There were no items removed from the Consent
Agenda.
De Weerd: We will go to Item 8, Public Hearing AZ 04-022. By ordinance in our -- for
our public hearings we are asked to swear in all those who wish to testify. So, those
who wish to testify on any of the Public Hearing Items 8 through 16, if you will, please,
raise your right hand. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God? If so, answer I will.
(Affirmative answers.)
Item 8: Public Hearing: AZ 04-022 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 4.91
acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Redfeather Village Subdivision by
Packard Estates Development, LLC — east of North Eagle Road and north
of East Fairview Avenue:
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 5 of 84
Item 9: Public Hearing: PP 04.029 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 20
single family residential building lots on 4.91 acres in a proposed R-8 zone
for Redfeather Village Subdivision by Packard Estates Development,
LLC — east of north Eagle Road and north of East Fairview Avenue:
De Weerd: Thank you. I'm sorry, I'm really having a hard time saying anything tonight.
I guess that works in the advantage of the Council. Okay. I will open Item No. 8 with
staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, our first item tonight is Redfeather --
De Weerd: And it's infectious.
Canning: Redfeather Village Subdivision. This is an annexation and zoning request of
4.91 acres from RUT to R-8. The property is located right in the middle of the original
Redfeather request, which came through earlier this year. This was the original
Redfeather. You can see the five -acre -- five acre out parcel outlined here and that is
the subject of this new subdivision. Its a very straightforward subdivision. They have
proposed 20 single family residential lots and the stub streets from the original
Redfeather just connects in an L shape with the lots on there. The gross density is 4.07
dwelling units per acre. The lots -- Madam Mayor, you have got me all tongue-tied.
That's not fair. The lots range in size from 6,712 square feet to 12,412 square feet.
This is a straight subdivision; it is not a planned development. And that's the basics. I
will answer any questions that Council may have.
Bird: I have none, Madam Mayor.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Anna. Okay. Is the applicant here tonight? Well, since
the applicant isn't here this evening, Council, do you wish to go any further? Is there
anyone in the public who would like to offer testimony on this application? Council,
what would you like to do?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we continue the public hearings for Items 8 and 9 to October
12th, 2004.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue this item until next week.
Is there any further discussion? Okay. All those in favor say aye. Okay. All ayes.
Motion carries.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 6 of 84
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Public Hearing: CUP 04-029 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
daycare facility for 30 to 40 children in an R-8 zone for Condra Steeves
Daycare Center by Condra and Donald Steeves — 1258 East Cougar
Creek Drive:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 is Public Hearing CUP 04-029. 1 will open this Public
Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Just a moment. I wasn't prepared to move that quickly. I'm sorry. Madam
Mayor, Members of the Council, the next request is for a Conditional Use Permit for a
daycare facility for -- the original request was 30 to 40 children in an R-8 zone. They
can only accommodate 30 children with the parking that's provided. So, it would just be
limited to 30. You can see the outline of the house as shown here. It's on Cougar -- IT
see it in the next one. No, I won't. Cougar Creek. Thank you very much. Off of Locust
Grove Road just south of Ustick. And there is the arrow. You can see that the
subdivision is built out. This is the -- north is headed this way for a reference point. So,
here is Cougar Creek Drive on the south end of the property. The parking would be
located in this area. Here is the side buffer. This is the garage from the house that
would still be a garage and be able to accommodate two vehicles. And, then, this is the
house and this is the play yard in the back. I'm going to go right to the P&Z
recommendation, so I can kind of summarize some of the testimony that we heard in
the previous hearings. This does come forward with a recommendation for approval
from the Planning and Zoning Commission. The original recommendation from staff
was for denial based on the need -- the lack of adequate parking, primarily, in the front
area. There is a note there from Ms. Kirkpatrick regarding the recommendation. It says
at the September 2nd, 2004, hearing, the Planning and Zoning Commission
recommended approval of the CUP application for Condra Steeves and adopted staff
comments as part of their motion to approve the CUP. Staff comments did recommend
denial and we did not include conditions of approval. Since it was clearly the intent of
the Planning and Zoning Commission to recommend approval of the CUP application,
staff just submitted a revised staff report that included conditions of approval, so -- and,
then, we added the recommendation of the Planning and Zoning Commission from
there. So, they did not have the standard conditions of approval going forward into the
hearing, but we did add those for this hearing. At the Public Hearing nine local
residents testified in favor of the application. Three neighbors testified in opposition to
the project, expressing concerns regarding traffic, noise, and the impact of the daycare
center on property values. There was also quite a bit of testimony about other kinds of
nonresidential uses in the area and I would imagine that that testimony will come up
again tonight. The key issues of discussion were the potential impacts of the daycare
center on the neighborhood; the logistics of the daycare center, just how people would
get there, drop off kids and leave. And, then, landscaping of the subject property and
parking on the subject property. They did recommend approval of the CUP. They also
recommended that the applicant work with the city to obtain alternative compliance for
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 7 of 84
landscaping. That will need to be done as a separate application, but at staff level.
They don't meet the required buffer on this side setback. That required area is 20 feet
and due to site constraints and location of the existing residents, they are not able to
provide that 20 feet. They have about 11 feet -- they are asking for a buffer of 12 feet.
And then -- on the eastern edge of the property and, then, eleven foot six on the
western edge. If I can get my -- there we go. So, they are asking for 12 feet there and,
then, 11 feet six on this location. There was quite a bit of discussion about the three
parking spaces at the front of the house and as to whether a variance was required for
that or not. The standard residential setback is 20 feet. There is an exception for the --
for the residence portion to move forward to 15 feet. So, for a residence, the setback
varies between 12 -- or 20 and 15 feet. In this case we have a conditional use going
into this zone, so there is a question about what is the setback and that becomes
important, because for commercial properties or for nonresidential uses, essentially, the
required parking cannot be in the front setback. So, as they have shown their three
parking spaces, they meet the 15 -foot setback, but not the 20 -foot setback. So, there
was some discussion as to whether a variance was needed. The Planning and Zoning
Commission felt that there wasn't and didn't recommend -- didn't forward a
recommendation to Council that the applicant be required to get a variance. So, that
was an outstanding issue before Council. And I think with that I will end my
presentation and answer any questions that Council may have.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions for staff at this time?
Canning: I do have the floor plan of the house. It's very difficult to read, but -- and there
is the house.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here this evening? I notice you were sworn in.
Nickel: I was sworn in, Madam Mayor. Thank you.
De Weerd: State your name and address.
Nickel: Shawn Nickle, 52 North 2nd Street in Eagle.
De Weerd: Thank you
Nickle: Here tonight representing Condra Steeves and this application for a Conditional
Use Permit. As staff has stated, your Planning and Zoning Commission did make a
recommendation for approval of this application after a lengthy discussion and
testimony, both in favor and in opposition. The applicant did, prior to submittal of this
application, hold a neighborhood meeting, which they sent out 54 letters, of which two
people showed up and they explained the process that they were going to go through
for the Conditional Use Permit. Also, the property itself and the aspects of the
Conditional Use Permit. The client also took a petition around, in which 49 of the
residents on Cougar Creek Lane or Drive, including the homeowner association
president and vice-president, signed in favor of the application. In addition, the
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 8 of 84
applicant submitted a petition with 103 signatures of past and present parents that have
either gone through their daycare centers in other locations or are currently going
through those centers. And in addition -- you should have all that in your packet. In
addition to that there is also a letter from State Senator Bunderson and from a local
businessman, all in support of this application for this use in this location. The actual
use is a preschool, rather than a daycare, but it is being processed as a daycare center,
because of the code. The applicant is not proposing any signage. They will be limiting
the number of students to 30. The hours of operation will be 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m.,
Monday through Friday. There will be three teachers at the -- at the facility, all licensed
with the state. The reason for this location was because of its location and central -- its
central location to the subdivision. Many of the potential children and parents can walk
to this site, including one of the teacher's lives right down the street. Thus, that would
help with any traffic concerns. I think that initially the Planning and Zoning Commission
and staff had serious concerns about this request until they did find out the hours of
operation and the fact that our parking can be contained on site and the testimony in
favor of the application at the Planning and Zoning Commission meeting. ACHD has
submitted a report stating that the traffic will not increase to a point that would make the
street unsafe. There is an existing adult care facility adjacent to the property on the
west. There are other commercial uses also within the subdivision. The neighbors on
both sides of the property have submitted letters in your packet requesting approval and
requesting that the alternative landscape plan that is appropriate and that we work with
staff on -- on exactly how many trees and what kind of buffering we will do on that
property. With that I will stand for any questions you have.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Shawn, you indicated that there are other commercial uses in the area.
Where are those uses and what are those uses and are they permitted through a CUP
or some other action?
Nickle: The main one is the adult care facility, which is next door to the property. I don't
believe that -- we went through this at Planning and Zoning and --
Rountree: It doesn't need a permit.
Nickle: It doesn't need a permit, so -- I don't know if the other ones are legal uses or
not. Home offices and smaller daycares.
De Weerd: Any further questions?
Bird: I have none at this time.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 9 of 84
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Nickle: Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. We have a number of people that have signed up for or against. If,
when I read your name, you would like to come up to provide testimony or if it's just
sufficient to read into the record if you're for or against. I have Deborah Schrader for.
Would you like to provide testimony? Okay. I'm guessing Louann Falter. Okay. Sorry.
I couldn't read it and listed as for. Amy Young for. Yes, please. Were you sworn in?
Young: Yes, I was.
De Weerd: Okay. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Young: I'm Amy Young. My address is 20 --
De Weerd: If you will pull the microphone down. I'm sorry. Okay
Young: I'm Amy Young. My address is 2690 North Mildew Way. I am a patron of the
preschool. My son attends there. My older son attended there. It is a preschool, so all
the children that attend, attend in a two-hour block period, so they have -- the 30
students would be three different classes of ten students each. My son loves it dearly
and we are looking forward to it being close to the neighborhood and I think it would be
a wonderful addition to the neighborhood. I have -- I don't know if the neighbors that
are, you know, opposed to it -- I brought a little -- the preschool makes up a little packet
of the kind of things that go on with the children and a sample of what the preschool
looks like and I have -- I have that if anybody would like to look at it. But my son's --
he's seven years old now and I brought it tonight to -- just in support of it, so --
De Weerd: Well, thank you. Corrine Arnell. For. Okay. Tish Davis against. Okay.
Were you sworn in?
Davis: I was.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Davis: I'm Tish Davis and my current address is 12351 West Gregory Drive. But,
however, I do have a house that is a rental on Stormy Drive, which is one road north of
where the proposed daycare center is, and my backyard would, basically, butt up
against their backyard, but there is a canal that runs in between those two sections of
land right there. And I guess my biggest concern over it is the traffic, because people
will enter to get to their home off of Locust Grove and, as you can see, there really isn't
any place to turn around. They are going to have to go up and come back out and that
will take them right down Stormy Drive. What isn't shown on this map is that section up
there that looks like it's undeveloped --
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 10 of 84
De Weerd: You have a pointer right there.
Davis: Oh, do I? Look at that. Let's see. That section right there is being developed
currently and they are cutting a road right there. I'm shaking. And so, then, that means
that all of that traffic is going to be right down Stormy Drive, too, along with all the traffic
from that daycare center. And there is a group home that is right next to where this
proposed daycare center is going in and I'm just wanting to know how many more --
how many more commercial businesses are going to be allowed into that -- into that
subdivision. I don't doubt that they are great people and that they are there to serve a
purpose and I think that that's great, but as a homeowner, as a landowner, I am
concerned about the traffic that it's going to bring into our neighbor. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Judy Alton against. If you will, please, state your name
and address.
Alton: Judy Alton, 1252 East Stormy Drive
De Weerd: Thank you.
Alton: And I live on the same street that Tish was speaking about. My real concern is
traffic. There is, as she said, the new subdivision going in and we are already going to
be getting a lot of people coming through to avoid the stop sign at Ustick and Locust
Grove to go to the subdivision. And people coming from the daycare center are
probably going to come around and we have a lot of small kids riding their bikes up and
down the street and that's a lot of traffic to be added. Also, just our home values. If we
are adding more and more of these type of properties, I think that people would
generally choose not to live next door to a business in a neighborhood and those are
really my chief concerns. I have no doubt that these people are great and that they run
a wonderful preschool, but I think that because of the traffic concerns that it is an issue
that I would rather not see.
De W eerd: Thank you. Steve Alton signed up against. Would you like to provide
testimony? Okay.
S.Alton: My wife usually says everything for me, but I just want to point one thing out.
De Weerd: If you will state your name and address.
S.Alton: Steve Alton, 1252 Stormy Drive.
De Weerd: And were you sworn in?
S.Alton: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 11 of 84
S.Alton: The same concerns, obviously. When we moved in four years ago, we moved
into a neighborhood that we recognized would have additional traffic based on -- see if I
can get this to work. Based on the fact that that area was undeveloped and with this
road right here going through to Ustick, that when that was developed it was, obviously,
going to be easier for cars to come through to avoid the light both going to work and,
then, the traffic flow back, cut through again to avoid this intersection. What wasn't
mentioned is that I went over and counted the number of lots that are developed and
they are just starting to build in this area right here and there are 60 lots. So, they are
typical family homes, which they are. There is two cars per home, so that's a potential
of 60 automobiles just on that alone coming through our street and diminishing our --
excuse me -- the peace that we bought and the property value that we acquired. So, to
put a commercial building -- or commercial development there and put more cars down
our neighborhood is only going to diminish our value further. So, we are strongly
opposed against it.
De Weerd: Mr. Alton, in that subdivision that's being developed, do they not have an
access onto Ustick?
S.Alton: They do have an access onto Ustick, but most people like to go take the route
of least resistance, so rather -- their option is to go to Ustick, come to a light, wait for the
light, and, then, go this direction or this direction. Locust Grove traffic is picking up and
most people want to get down Locust Grove to Fairview, to Eagle, to the freeway,
whereever they are going. So, the natural cut through -- and we are seeing it now. I
mean there is no homes being lived in right here, they are just being built, but we are
seeing increased traffic through that route down our street now from no homes and no
families living there. It's just people that have figured it out. They can get through there
quicker i n e ither d irection t han g oing u p to the I ight at Locust G rove a nd U stick a nd
waiting for a left-hand turn, Locust Grove to Ustick, or a right-hand turn going the
opposite direction. So, it's becoming a known cut through. When the homes are built
there and 60 more cars are in play, it's going to be a freeway, let alone 30 more cars
throughout the day. So, the property value. But there is one more thing that I want to
bring up. The way that thing has been handled, we were having dinner one night when
a young lady showed up at our front door and kind of explained that they were going to
do a daycare, with no details, and we thought, well, that's great, somebody trying to
make a living with the daycare, we didn't have any -- and they asked, you know, if you
had a problem with that, that there was opportunity to get involved. We gave it no
consideration and thought that's not a problem, four or five kids in the neighbor, typical
daycare. That's the last we heard of it. We got no petition. We had no invitation to a
meeting. The only thing that we had was a notice in the mail that this meeting was
going to occur tonight and, then, we saw in that -- in that notice that they were intending
for the 30 to 40 kids. So, I read the minutes from the last meeting today and I found that
most of the neighbors -- it said in there that most of the neighbors -- and the reason that
zoning was giving the recommendation that it be okay was because most of the
neighbors are saying it's fine. However, I don't know that most of the neighbors really
understand the full impact of what's being proposed. We certainly didn't until we got
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 12 of 84
that notice and I don't know that others do. If -- I would like to submit, if nothing else -- I
don't know what the meeting tonight is for, if it's for a final approval or what --
De Weerd: Yes.
S.Alton: Is it? I would like at a minimum suggest that -- I'd like to go around and talk to
my neighbors and see if they really understand the impact of this and if they have been
given the opportunities that we have been given. I don't think they understand what's
going on, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Jeremy -- I will mutilate your name, so I will just call you
Jeremy. Or Jerome. I'm sorry. I already mutilated your name, didn't I? Signed up
against. Would you like to provide testimony? Thank you. Okay. Trina Savoy. Thank
you. I didn't notice that I swore you in.
Savoy: You did not.
De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Savoy: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Savoy: Okay. Trina Savoy. My address is 2136 East Clarine and I live 9/10ths of a
mile away from the proposed preschool and I do want to reiterate it is a preschool with a
very strong curriculum, preparing children for kindergarten. This is my second year
attending Mrs. Steeves' preschool. My intention is to walk. A lot of the children are car
pulled. The majority of them. There could be a potential problem now with where it's
located and she's done such a good job of making sure that groups of children are
coming in at the same time, we are not having 20 cars coming in at once. It's very well
managed and handled. And I believe -- I'm not positive, but I believe that that sign that
was posted did state the details and the number of children, the sign that was posted in
front of that house about the meeting and the number of children that were going to be
attending. So, that might be something you want to check on, but I'm pretty sure.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Staff, do we know what the sign said? When those are
posted does it list specifics about the application?
Canning: We should have a picture of it. Let me check. It should read just the same as
this one here. Generally the same wording.
De Weerd: Okay. While you look at that, I'll go ahead and continue. Brian Conner
signed up against. Thank you. Were you sworn in?
Conner: Yes, I was
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 13 of 84
De Weerd: Okay. If you will, please, state your name and address. And you can pull
that up.
Conner: Okay. Brian Conner. I live on 2797 North Snow Goose Way, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Conner: Basically, my house is one -- one house and one street away. I live in Hunter
Point Subdivision. A long with the concerns that h ave been voiced tonight a bout the
increased traffic and things of that nature, I think my -- one of my major concerns and
something that hasn't really been stated, is the kind of commercial creep into R-8 zoned
residential areas. Council member Rountree already kind of touched on it tonight when
he asked how many other conditional use permits do we have in that area with some
sort of commercial use. And so the more we allow this, the more it sets a precedence
for other people to have businesses and I think -- I really doubt that some of the people
that live in this area would have bought their house if there was a daycare or preschool
facility, whatever you may have, right next door to them or if their houses may have
appraised at the same rate. The only time this kind of commercial creep really benefits
anyone is when you're one of the last residential homeowners standing and everything
else has finally valued up, because it is all business, everything has been totally
restructured. You look on any house in Boise on Broadway, Fairview, something like
that, that's right next to all the commercial creep, those houses are fairly run down, they
are not worth much anymore, unless you can rezone it and sell it as commercial. So, I
just kind of -- I think this kind of commercial creep is subject to what the original zoning
intent was for these areas and I don't think we need the increased traffic either. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Don Jensen has signed up in support. Would you -- okay.
Melinda Jensen in support. Okay. Jack -- I'm sorry. Jack Savoy. Okay. He's in
support. Gwen Blakeslee. In support.
Blakeslee: Hi.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address.
Blakeslee: Gwen Blakeslee, 2550 North Bobcat Way.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Blakeslee: And I have a daughter who is in her second year with the preschool at their
location on Linder and I'm in a car pool with another student and I would really
appreciate h aving another facility closer. It would cut d own on m y, you know, eight
minute drive to about -- either walking or a one minute drive, because I'm in the
neighborhood adjacent to it. And I have two other children that would benefit from
having a quality preschool close by.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 14 of 84
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to
offer testimony? If you will, please, state your name and address.
Steeves: Condra Steeves, 7035 North Linder Road.
De Weerd: Were you sworn in?
Steeves: I was not.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Steeves: It is.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Steeves: I just wanted to clarify a few things. What they are saying about traffic, we do
come in car pools. The way that it works is we have three classes that would be
attending. They would come at 9:00, 9:15, and 9:30. With my 9:00 o'clock class there
would be four cars coming in and out. With my 9:15 there is five and with my 9:30 there
is five, maybe six. That doesn't count the people who are in walking -- I mean it does
count the people who are in walking distance. Can they stand?
De Weerd: You bet.
Steeves: People who are within walking distance. Oh, there was going to be more of
them. There is at least 11 who are within walking distance who will be there. There has
been a neighbor who has asked us not to make u -turns, so I have talked to the parents
about pulling into the driveway, backing out, and, then, going back out the same street.
They don't even know Stormy exists without this map here. I mean I'm sure they could
figure it out, but they didn't -- I was planning on them using East Cougar Creek. We
have walked East Cougar Creek, we have got all their signatures, the people who -- no,
there is two people on the street who we don't have their signatures, but 99 percent I
would say. We have walked that whole East Cougar Creek Drive and they are all okay
with it and they understand. They have seen the sign. The sign says 30 to 40 children.
But we have gone to them and explained how they will be coming in. The other thing is
R-8 zones are zoned for commercial uses, but our preschool will not have signs, it's
bought in our names, so it is a residence, it is not a commercial building. Anyone
driving down in the evenings wouldn't know what was going on. So, it will stay looking
as a home, up kept as a home, and since we are buying it as a husband and wife, it
won't change property values at all. No one will even know that it's a preschool. During
--from 9:00 to 3:00 is when we operate, so when they are out the children and in
the evenings with families, it will be dead quiet and there will be no traffic from us. I
think that was all of the issues from there.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 15 of 84
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Mrs. Steeves, if I could just ask a question. My question is why this particular
location?
Steeves: I have about 60 people within a mile radius who would like to go there. The
location was looked at, there was actually a home farther down we looked at and the
parking wouldn't facilitate. This one has room for three cars double deep. So, if I have
six people dropping off, they can all fit in the driveway and not on the road. That was
one reason. The square footage works very well and it's that quiet. We are very quiet.
Our children are in classes of ten with a teacher, all supervised, it is educational, no kids
are running around or anything, so it fits very well in neighborhoods, which I target. The
parents who come want an in-home feel for their children's first experience at school.
We provide that in-home feel, plus keep it just -- so that area -- I was targeting that area
and, actually, the homeowner came to me and said -- who is a person that has children
in the preschool and said we are wanting to move, would you look at our home and see
if it would work. There is plenty of people right around who would like that. So, we did
do the research we did do that. Also, with the other people, mailers were sent out by
Meridian city and by -- for this one. This is the second hearing. They got the mailer for
the first hearing that explained the 30 to 40 children; it has the exact same wording. So,
everybody on Stormy -- this is their second mailer and I was the nice lady that knocked
on the door and handed them an invitation to a neighborhood meeting where I would
explain all of this. We only had two people show up. But that was an invitation when
we talked to them, was handed to them, please come to the neighborhood meeting, so I
can explain all this.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, follow up?
De Weerd: Okay.
Wardle: I guess my question was this Council has seen and approved just recently a lot
of office along -- if I can have the map of the neighborhood. Yeah. Just along Locust
Grove to the south and, then, up into here and so I heard you say that an in-home feel
is important to your needs. You didn't consider a use in -- such as a low office or --
Steeves: No. No. We would not have the clientele we have. They come to us for an
in-home feel.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 16 of 84
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is the testimony you are about to give the truth, the
whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Freeze: Yes. Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Freeze: Melissa Freeze, 4650 West Big Creek Street.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Freeze: And I just want to say I have been at home for four years, but I taught for six
years in the Meridian district, three at Linder Elementary and three at Chaparral and
when I I ooked for a p reschool I was p retty p icky a nd I was very impressed with h er
setup and I did like the in-home setting and it takes the cost down, plus it's clean. And I
have been really -- like I said, I'm really picky and I was the room mom last year, so I
was very careful about watching and being in there and she runs a very tight ship. She
does not let her kids get out of control and if there is a problem, she takes care of it right
away and I do not foresee any problems as far as other property being destroyed or
kids climbing fences or whatever. There is -- in our class it was a one -to -eight ratio,
which is a really small ratio. I don't know if you have checked other preschools around
town, but most of them are one to 15 or 18, sometimes with a helper. And the other
thing is -- is I know that they are concerned about traffic, but I wanted to reemphasize
that the morning sessions are usually like from 9:00 to noon at the latest and, then, my
son is in the afternoon session and he gets out at 2:45. And I know that that's before
people are home from work and also before kids get home from school. So, I know that
if most people in that neighborhood are working, they are probably leaving at 7:00 or
8:00 and that's, really, before any of the moms come and, then, when you get home at
5:00 or 6:00, they will be gone. Kids -- my son's home at 3:00 every day. And it's not a
daycare, it's -- I was very picky about that. I wanted it to be a preschool. So, you either
sign up for the morning or afternoon and, then, that's it. So, I just want to emphasize
that I think it's not going to be an issue, because they will probably be at work when
people are dropping off and car-pooling.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Were you sworn in?
Kendrick: No.
De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Kendrick: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 17 of 84
Kendrick: Santha Kendrick, 1076 East Cougar Creek Court
De Weerd: Thank you.
Kendrick: And I only live about six houses down and I have space for six cars -- well,
five, because I have my car. So, we can use my area if we need for cars. I'm very
willing to do that and I'll walk down myself, so I won't need to drive. But I'm very willing
to, you know, give up the area if we need to use that to allow their preschool in and I
have had my son there for three years and it's excellent, it is a very fun and very good
program and my second son is turning -- he just turned three, so I'm excited to have one
so close. But, anyway, I -- like I said, I will be walking down there myself and if they
need extra space I definitely have enough to fit all of them.
De Weerd: Thank you
Kendrick: Thanks.
De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Perry: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Perry: I'm Stephanie Perry, 1258 East Cougar Creek. We are the current homeowners
of the home and I also have had my children in the preschool. This is the fourth year. I
have had three children go through there. I just want to say that it's a wonderful
preschool. Obviously, I keep my children in and for both years -- three and four years. I
also wanted to bring up -- I understand a lot of people are concerned about the traffic,
which is understandably so, but, like she said, there is going to car pools, the preschool
that she currently runs, I know there is several car pools that go through there, but I also
wanted to say we have a lawn care and sprinkler company and we have two employees
that run that and we personally give a lot of traffic to the road. So we are -- we need to
move, we need to expand and get a bigger house, because I feel there is -- you know,
we have two trailers, three vehicles, and, then, our two employee vehicles, along with
my two brother -in-laws that come and help run the company. So, with that traffic
coming in and out, you know, I feel that the business -- going into a business, I don't
know if the neighbors will notice so much of a difference with us gone, because,
currently, like I said, we have a lot of -- a lot of trailers and vehicles in our area in our
home, so --
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 18 of 84
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Do you have a Conditional Use Permit to operate a business in that
neighborhood?
Perry: No, we don't.
Rountree: Thank you
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Any new testimony? Is the testimony you provide
tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
D'Hadley. Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
D'Hadley: My name is Karen D'Hadley. I live on 706 West Ashby. I have been a
teacher at Small Hands Preschool for six years and I -- it's a wonderful program. I
started there when I was going to school at BSU. I had many great teachers,
professors, doctors, that helped me and Condra Steeves progress this preschool to the
point that it is. I consulted with them hours and hours and they helped me and Condra
to make it a wonderful program. But what I really wanted to express was our parents --
people are worried about the traffic and worried about people rushing, but our parents
and us love our children. They follow the speed limit. They are careful. They are safe.
Our children are the most important things to us in the world and we wouldn't ever put
them in danger and they are very good about keeping the laws of the road and very
considerate drivers and they do come in car pools. I have one class -- or I have three
classes I only have four cars coming in with ten kids. So, traffic is low and they do
follow the speed limit and are very careful and I think that's all. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there any further testimony? Were you sworn in?
Bohm: Yes, I was.
De Weerd: Okay. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Bohm: My name is Donna Bohm and I live at 1451 North Santa Rosa Place
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bohm: And this is something dear to my heart, too. I mean it's not about a variance, it's
about -- it's kind of the same issue, except for mine is not quite as big. But I just wanted
to come and say that when -- comments about when people are looking to buy a house
in a neighborhood like this and stuff, when do they mostly go out? They go out on the
weekends, they go out in the evenings after work. This type of a preschool is not going
to see the type of traffic or kids out playing during those times. I don't think it's going to
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 19 of 84
have any effect of the value of -- in the neighborhood on houses. The next issue I'd like
to bring out is that it is a structured environment. Preschools are a little bit different than
daycares and I know for a fact that preschools and daycares -- slash preschool
daycares that I have gone to around here seem to think they are grouped together and
they are not. When it's just a preschool, it's just a preschool. It's very structured. They
go from one center to another center, there is not any yelling, they are to use their
inside voices. It's not like -- it would be like even better than your own kids behaving at
home. If you had five to ten kids of your own, you would probably have a lot of noise
going on throughout the day. Whereas with these preschoolers, there is not much noise
at all, because they are talking in human voices, they are not yelling, they are not
screaming, they are not running around with guns, they are learning, you know, like our
kids do. You know, that's what I mean the gun comment, because usually they have
squirt guns or running around, you know, when they are out playing. But when they are
in school they are not allowed to do that. It's structured. So it is a structured
environment, so the noise and stuff is very limited. When they do go outside, they don't
go outside for two or three hours, they are out there for maybe 15, 20 minutes at a time
and it's, again, structured play. There is the sandbox. There is the swings. They are
not running around causing all kinds of chaos. The next thing I'd like to point out is that
usually the parents that bring their children to us are strictly day -- or a preschool
environment care about their children enough to takeout the time to go to it. They
usually don't work. If they do work, they have somebody, like a family member or a
friend, deliver their children or a car pool. They are not in a rush. They don't have a job
to go to. This is their job. They are parents or friends or family that are helping get
these children to their education start. The next issue is the last one and I will be quiet.
I feel that a subdivision would benefit from home businesses, because you probably
have all experienced it yourselves, the traffic is getting crazy everywhere, the time it
takes to get from one point to another point is going up. Just myself, I live four miles
from Wal-Mart, when I go to Wal-Mart it used to take me like eight minutes, now it takes
me 15, you know. So, those types of things cut into our time with our family and family
is a big issue with me. I would have more time with my family. So, if we had these little
places, like daycares, preschools, nail salons, home businesses that are -- have
something to do with like selling candles, baskets, perfume, makeups, whatever, it helps
us as parents that choose to stay at home and do that during the day, to just be right
around the corner to walk to it, to just jump in the car and go two miles versus eight
down the road. I think it's a benefit to a subdivision, especially if it's handled in a decent
way, which is like they were saying, there is not going to be any signs, so I don't think
that it would be an impose on the neighborhood or bring down the value. Thank you.
De Weerd: T hank you. N ow I don't even have to ask, do I? I s the testimony you
provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Bodily: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 20 of 84
Bodily: My name is April Bodily, I live at 2728 South Sims Place in Meridian, and I just
wanted to stand tonight and put on record that I am in support of this. My children have
attended Small Hands Preschool for three years. It's an interesting thing. If you know
Condra, which I guess you guys don't have that fortunate of knowing her, but this
preschool started just in her home with probably six kids and Condra is a woman who
loves education and she's great at it and it has grown, not because she wanted to make
money, not because she wanted to have centers all around the Treasure Valley, but
because she loves children. She teaches them well and you would not believe the
parents that call day and day -- day after day wanting to get into this program. It is like
no other. It is also affordable, which is very hard to find, because Condra is not out to
make a living off of this. She is out to help these children. One small known fact also is
that Condra does scholarship many children and has quite a few classes where parents
pay very little, because they can't afford this sort of thing and wouldn't get it any other
place. I know these parents help out in other ways that they can by, you know, doing
some of the task work at home and stuff like that. So, I guess I just wanted it to be
known this is not about a business. And another little known fact -- I was at the last
hearing -- is that if this CUP does go into effect, it is with Condra only, it doesn't stay
with the home or the property. Somebody else can't come in and do this if she sells it.
One more thing I want to say is every time you will hear Condra say, oh, the parents will
just come in and park there and turn around and leave, it is the truth. She runs a tight
ship in the sweetest way and the parents listen. They do love their children. They love
Condra. They are happy to have their children here with these wonderful teachers in
this educational environment and you will see everything that she says happen. There
will be many children walking. I have now started to sort of work in this preschool,
which is amazing, because I said I would never do anything like that after I got rid of my
children into school. But it's because it's just amazing. You're taken into it. It's quiet. I
do go down into the basement of her center now and you would not believe that there
are 30 children there, because it is absolutely quiet. They are learning and they are
loving it. So, I just wanted that to go on record tonight. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. I'm sorry you've already testified. Is there any further
testimony? Okay. We do give the applicant an opportunity to rebut.
Canning: Madam Mayor, before the applicant comes up to rebut, I did want to just point
out a couple of things from the staff report and some of the commitments that h ave
been made by the developer that are not reflected in the conditions of approval. If you
look on page four of your staff report, you will notice that there is three items listed there
as special considerations, but because they were not -- as I mentioned before, there
was a recommendation for denial that was taken forward to the Planning and Zoning
Commission, there were no conditions of approval. So, these are just special
considerations at this point. The first one deals with the landscape buffer. I do think it
would be appropriate to add a condition of approval, if the Council decides to approve
this application, that the applicant be required to obtain alternative compliance prior to
occupancy of the structure. The second one is a commitment by the applicant to put up
a nonclimbable fence along the Onweiler lateral, which abuts the property to the north.
Again, I feel that would be an appropriate condition of approval. And, then, Mrs.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 21 of 54
Steeves testified that there was room for six double-parked vehicles. I did want to point
out that there is just five and that's why staff has said that they only meet the parking
requirements for the 30, not for the 40. Again, that's two in garage and, then, three
across the face of the property. The other commitments that we have heard tonight
from the applicant and the application's staff have been car pools, off-site parking,
walking, and no u -turns and although these have been offered, these -- typically we
don't put these as conditions of approval, because there would be no way for us to
enforce those in any effective manner. So, I just did want to point those out, in case the
applicant wanted to talk about any of those in their rebuttal.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Okay. Just restate your name and address.
Nickle: Thank you, again, Madam Mayor and Council Members. Shawn Nickle. There
are basically three issues this evening. I think that the character of Mrs. Steeves has
been well a ddressed and s o I don't need to g o f urther i nto t hat. T hose other -- t he
issues are traffic, the noticing of this -- of this use to the neighborhood and, then, the
commercial use itself. In the red, that's what the sign said. As you know, those are very
large, white signs. It's been up for about two months and it specifically said 30 to 40
children. It even gave Condra Steeves' phone number for personal contact, if anyone
had any questions, if they are right out front, you couldn't miss it: The petitions that you
have in your packet and the letters I thinks upport the immediate neighborhood that
Condra's intending to impact in that it's always been her intention to not impact the rest
of the subdivision, other than what's coming in off of Locust Grove. So, I think that's
important to understand. As far as safety and traffic, again, I think what really
impressed the Planning and Zoning Commission was the hours of operation, the 9:00 to
3:00, the fact that this is a -- not a daycare, but a preschool, so it follows the same hours
and times of year that a normal school -- in other words, they are out for summer, just
as the school kids would be. So, you're not going to have that conflict during the week
of children out playing when cars are coming and going during that Monday through
Friday time period. Yes, this is a commercial use. There may be other commercial
uses in the development, they may or may not be allowed. We are doing the right thing
in coming to you and asking for approval of this application. I can't speak for the people
who may or may not h ave done t hat, but we are doing that. T here is conditions of
approval that you can p lace o n this t hat I believe will h elp I essen the i mpact o n the
neighbors. The testimony you heard from neighbors just in the general area, I think,
show that this is a needed use in this type of subdivision. Council member Wardle
brought up why don't you -- why can't you use an existing office and I think Condra did a
good job of explaining she's looking for a more personal type of facility, one that's within
the subdivision that you don't have to necessarily drive to if you don't want to. One of
her teachers lives right down the block and would walk to the property. You're not going
to be located on an arterial street, so, you know, safety and noise would come into play
-- or would not come into play. Staff explained the screening and fencing, which we
have agreed to. Of course, the condition that this application -- this approval would stop
with Mrs. Steeves and would not go to another buyer of the property in the future and,
then, very quickly, the issue of the variance that was brought up with staff, Planning and
Zoning did not recommend that we get a variance. However, just so you know that by
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 22 of 84
asking for the variance we are not asking for -- in other words, there is plenty of room to
park to turn around cars and to provide a required parking without blocking any
sidewalks or blocking any traffic when cars come in and out to drop off their kids. So, I
think it's real important, the staggering of the children when they are dropped off, the
hours of operation, the Monday through Friday. The neighbors have been, I think, fully
noticed of this application and we have had neighborhood meetings -- they are well
informed, I do believe, and that's why I think you got the lack of testimony from those
neighbors on Cougar Creek, it was because of that extra effort that Mrs. Steeves went
through to inform them. I think that's all I have to say. I'd love to answer any questions
you have.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions? No. Thank you, Shawn.
Nickle: Okay. Thanks a lot.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you need any further information provided by the
applicant or staff? Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we close Item No. 10's Public Hearing.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 10. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I think the applicant is to be commended and there is certainly testimony
here this evening for her abilities and her personal traits and any comment I might say
from this point forward I don't intend to relate to that aspect of the application, but my
concern is is that we have an, obvious, commercial activity that is being proposed to
take place in an obvious residential neighborhood and that's evidenced by the fact of
the variances, the exceptions, the inability to meet the ordinance requirements that we
have established in the City of Meridian for commercial activities. It seems to me if I
were a commercial activity coming to the City of Meridian and wanted to start a
commercial activity and the city were to approve these kinds of things, I would seek the
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 23 of 84
sanctuary of an R-8 subdivision and avoid a number of those things that we require
applicants and folks that do come to our city to establish businesses and run
businesses. Again, I understand the desire of the folks to have a close -- I think I
thoroughly understand the abilities of Mrs. Steeves, but I have an issue with the
commercial -- an obvious commercial activity in an obvious residential setting.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: My comments are much along the lines of Councilman Rountree's. I would like
to say that I am impressed with the fact that so many people have come in support of
this person's individual business and the way they conduct their business and certainly
believe that all of those things, car pooling, walking, and understand that all of those
would be part this application, but we have commercial areas for a reason and I think
this is -- this is an example of something that would fit into a neighborhood center. It is
a neighbor business and we do have -- even in this area not very far up the street a
neighborhood center with some approved commercial zoning in areas and so I -- just
the exceptions being made here I feel are more appropriate, from our Comprehensive
Plan, in a like area with other businesses. And so I just wanted to say that as my
personal opinion, but, again, that this is certainly not any type of indication as to the
character of the applicant or the business itself.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further comment? I would offer another perspective and I would
agree that in some regards the parking and the drop off has some issues to it, but I
brought my kids to an in-home preschool setting and it does serve a function. Certainly,
the traffic and the parking and drop off type of situation could be better, but I'm
impressed with the fact that the neighbors that live on this street are not opposing it and
that they have done a good job in putting any concerns to rest in that regard. And so
that's very impressive. I think that most neighbors see that as an asset and certainly it
is an asset and why it's allowed in an R-8 is to provide a service to the neighborhood
and, yes, there are neighborhood centers for that, but not in these older parts before
neighborhood centers existed. So, I do believe there is a use for it. There are some
concerns on the drop off, but I -- and I do also believe in what Mrs. Steeves said is if
you locate in a commercial area, your prices do go up, because you do have to cover
the cost and the cost of the preschool and the hours are very low impact and that's
probably why you don't see a lot of the immediate neighbors here to testify against it.
And I guess I'll leave my comments at that. And there are illegal uses going on in our
neighborhoods and the city does need to know about those, because they do require
conditional use permits in the city and we don't advocate businesses operating illegally
out of our houses, even in R-8 subdivisions. And group homes, just for the record,
those are not considered a business, those are considered residential uses and we
have recently done a lot of research on that, so I just wanted to put that for the record
as well. Is there any further -- Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 24 of 84
Bird: Madam Mayor, I'll throw my two cents worth in here. I agree that I think that this is
a very nice application. She's done a great job, sold
only problem is she come in to do it legally where,
don't do it legally and I appreciate that very much so.
business for that area. I don't believe the traffic bo
having -- if we set precedence and all our -- w
throughout our residential, which I don't think is a go
with this as an application. I think she's done very w
speaks for itself how well she's done and the progi
A hiId
the neighbors and everything. Her
evidently, a whole bunch of them
I think she's got a very worthwhile
hers me that much, it's the fact of
a are going to have commercial
)d policy. But I see nothing wrong
all and it's -- the people being here
am she's put up and having seen
gran c ren go through these preschools and stuff, they are very needed, very
needed, and when you can -- you know, when you can pay three or four dollars a
square foot against 12 to 15 you would in commercial, more people can afford to go.
That's my thoughts.
Rountree: So, are you going to make a motion?
Bird: I probably wouldn't get a backing or a second.
Rountree: Go ahead.
Bird: But I will make it. I would move that we approve the CUP, the Conditional Use
Permit for a daycare facility for 30 to 40 children in an R-8 zone for Condra Steeves and
to incorporate staff, applicant, and public testimony. That's it.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to approve Item No. 10. Do I have a second? Okay.
Motion fails.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we deny the request for Conditional Use Permit 04-029, request
for a Conditional Use Permit for a daycare facility for 30 to 40 children in an R-8 zone
for Condra Steeves and the reason for the denial as I stated earlier in my comments in
discussion.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to deny Item No. 10. Is there any
further discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Anna.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 25 of 84
Canning: Do I get to play Bill Nichols? Since this is a Conditional Use Permit, usually
Bill asks that you -- Mr. Nary can chastise me later if he wants to, but, generally, we ask
that you give the applicant an idea of how they might be able to obtain approval in the
future.
De Weerd: And since I was just going to ask our attorney that, thank you.
Canning: I'm sorry.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Well, the only position I heard Councilman Rountree indicate as -- that was the
incompatibility of the commercial use in the residential zone. Is that correct?
Rountree: Correct.
Nary: And so I'm sure that there -- I'm not sure whatever other information the Council
wants to include to allow the applicant that opportunity. I'm not sure what there would
be. But, certainly, if Council has something, you can certainly provide that to the
applicant.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, something of a smaller scale, something consistent with an
ancillary use or the daycare provision that we have in residential areas for ancillary use
in the -- I believe it's five to six children for daycare or school or whatever, require that
the primary use of the facility be a residence, not a commercial establishment at a
minimum.
De Weerd: Okay. Is that enough for the record, Mr. Nary?
Nary: Yes, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Does the second agree?
De Weerd: Does the second agree?
Wardle: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, nay; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 26 of 84
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY.
Item 11: Public Hearing: AZ 04-021 Request for Annexation a nd Zoning of 10
acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Arcadia Subdivision by C7 Development
— 3665 Jericho Road:
Item 12: Public Hearing: PP 04-028 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 33
single family residential building lots and 3 common lots on 10 acres in a
proposed R-8 zone for Arcadia Subdivision by C7 Development — 3665
Jericho Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Mr. Berg. Okay. Item No. 11 and 12 are related. I will
open these two items, Public Hearing AZ 04-021 and PP 04-028. 1 will open with staff
comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is Arcadia Subdivision. It's a
request for annexation and zoning of ten acres from RUT to R-8. The property is
located just south of Jericho Road off of Chinden. There is a church, a school site,
some -- four new residential lots -- five new residential lots, some existing larger homes,
and you see the subject property here. This was the proposed Leeshire development.
This is the Saguaro Subdivision as was recently approved. There is currently an
existing home that will be removed. The proposed subdivision does have a number of
connecting streets. This, again, connects up to Jericho and they have a loop. This is
stubbed into the -- the former Leeshire development and this stub goes into Saguaro
Canyon. The applicant is proposing 33 building lots and three other lots. The open
space lots -- this is a -- a separation between the two homes there and, then, this is all
open space at the center. There is also open space at the entrance here and here.
The lots range in size from 6,540 square feet up to 12,493 square feet. The gross
density of the project is 3.3 dwelling units per acre and the plat contains approximately
12 percent open space, which exceeds the five percent minimum required. This not a
PUD, this is a straight subdivision. Just a moment, Mayor and Council, I'm looking for
the recommendation sheet for the summary from the Planning and Zoning Commission.
This does come forward with a recommendation for approval from the Planning and
Zoning Commission. One neighbor testified in favor of the application. Four neighbors
testified in opposition to the application, citing concerns regarding traffic and the density
of the subdivision. The key issues of discussion by the Commission were the stub
streets to the neighboring properties and also the fencing along open space areas and
pathways. We had asked -- staff had requested that micro -path landscaping standards
be applied in this area, as well as all open space, which would mean that you could
have a four foot solid and two feet of open lattice fencing in those areas and there was
quite a bit of discussion. The applicant didn't want to be restricted to that. There was
discussion about it along this property line and also along this lot line as well. The
Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend that the micro -path landscape
provisions be provided adjoining this large open space lot in the center. They also
added a condition regarding the sewer easement. I'm going to let Brad handle that one.
It's a sewer easement in the northeast comer of the subdivision and I think it was
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 27 of 84
related to recent developments between Leeshire and Saguaro, but those issues may
have changed. And with that I'm going to let Brad update you.
Watson: Madam Mayor and Council Members, I did have one revision to make to
condition seven in the staff report and that change is necessary because of the denial of
Leeshire. Condition seven, fourth sentence, this development will require a second
water main connection to provide for better flows and redundancy within the system,
which this can be accomplished through Leeshire Subdivision or Saguaro Canyon and
we need to add the phrase: Or other adjacent property. It just takes the specificity out
of Leeshire and Saguaro Canyon and as to the sewer easement condition that the
Commission changed on the staff recommendation, that's fine. So, with that I think staff
is done.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for staff at this time, Council?
Bird: I would have none.
Rountree: None.
De W eerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? If you will, please, state your name and
address.
McKinnon: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Dave McKinnon, 735
South Crosstimber. I know it might be shocking, we are not asking for a super -size
subdivision tonight, we are not asking for --
De Weerd: Or variances.
McKinnon: Or a v ariance o r a p lanned development w ith t he s ubdivision. This i s a
straightforward subdivision with a straightforward annexation. After annexation of the
Saguaro Subdivision, which you recently approved, as part of Saguaro Subdivision's
approval you required that they have a stub street in the northwest corner of this small
piece of property, which we have provided for, and that will provide access out to
Chinden Boulevard, which is a requirement that you made for Saguaro, so we are,
actually, helping Saguaro meet their requirements that you suggested. I'd like to
address Anna's comments real quick. First of all, I'd just like to take you through the
subdivision really quick and explain to you the reasons why the subdivision is designed
the way it is. Coming down off of Jericho from Chinden Boulevard there is currently a
small house that sits right here with a lot of large landscaping trees surrounding that and
rather than just trying to get rid of all the trees and jam in as many lots as we could, we
decided to keep as many of the large trees that we could. Meridian doesn't have a
great deal of trees and these are large mature trees, so we have tried to maintain and
keep as many trees as possible, bringing the road through where the house was and
there are a couple of trees that will have to go, but we have added quite a bit of open
space, which will be landscaped to provide for additional trees. Coming into the
subdivision, instead of seeing houses directly into the subdivision, you see open space,
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 28 of 84
as Anna pointed out. Actually, there is about 12 percent open space. Again, this isn't a
PUD where we have to have ten -percent, we are, you know, by choice giving 12
percent open space to the subdivision. The reason for that is to try to create a different
feel from the other standard subdivisions that you see in Meridian. Again, if you look at
the subdivision, there is a stub street into Saguaro, a stub street into the -- I guess it's
the untimely demise of Leeshire Subdivision, with Twilight Hush Avenue being the
name, and coming back around and access back out to Chinden through there. The
reason for the loop is to try to limit the amount of traffic coming in and out on one street.
Anna pointed out a couple of small issues that were discussed quite a bit at
Commission. The fencing issue -- and I'm going to probably lean on your new city
attorney, Councilman Nary, just a little bit for some help on this tonight. The Planning
and Zoning Commission at the meeting decided that because this was an open space
area and the landscape ordinance does not address fencing for open space areas, it
addresses micro -path areas only, they said that they would need to have a development
agreement that says that this should be fenced in accordance with landscape
ordinance, even though it didn't -- doesn't specifically say micro -path. There is no
micro -path proposed for this area, it's just open space, and we said if a fence is
provided, we will meet that requirement and so we felt that it would be something that
could be provided without a development agreement. The only reason for the
development agreement was to put in language to say that if fencing goes in on this
area, it has to meet the requirements. We are more than willing to comply with that and
put fencing in there, if fencing is put in and the neighbors, if they put fencing in there,
choose to put fencing in, it would comply with that section of code for micro -path
landscaping. So, I -- I want to call you commissioner, now Councilman, now City
Attorney Nary, I need you to help us out with that. I don't want to take away work from
him, but if there is a way to get around doing a development agreement and having to
review a development agreement only regarding fencing, we think there may be a way
out of that by just making it a condition of approval for the annexation, rather than going
through a lengthy development agreement and having to go through that process. In
addition to that, Brad Watson just briefly just touched on the sewer easement in this
area. The reason for the sewer easement -- there may be some confusion there.
Initially, the staff report from Ada County Highway District requested what would be
considered -- and it's stated in their staff report -- as a quasi stub street in this location.
In questioning Ada County staff as to what a quasi stub street is, they said, well, it's a
place where you might be able to have a stub street in the future, if there is ever a need
for a stub street, and in discussing with the Planning and Zoning Commission, there
was an access to a school site here, there is an elementary school site just to the
northeast of this project, with an access just to the north here, and Planning and Zoning
Commission felt that there was no need for a stub street there, so they got rid of the
requirement for the stub street in that place, so they said, you know what, in the future
there may need to be a sewer extension coming through along this side, the east side of
the project, so they said put the sewer stub right here and provide an easement across
right here, rather than provide a stub street. And we have talked with the owner of the
property right here -- Anna, if you can go back to the overhead, the aerial. There we go.
This piece of property right here. We have talked with this property owner right here
and he's agreed to allow us to stub to that piece of property, so in the future if it
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 29 of 84
develops, sewer can be brought to that piece of property, rather than on the street, but
rather as a sewer easement and we are in agreement with that. The P&Z Commission
didn't make an explicit statement that is reflected in the staff report, but the reason for
the sewer easement there was to get rid of the requirement for a stub street, the quasi
stub street as Ada County Highway District reflected that on their report. With that, I
guess the major issues that the Commission had we resolved those with you. As you
see in your staff report, there weren't any major issues left to resolve that they
forwarded to you. There is still some time left, but I don't believe there is a great deal
that needs to be discussed from me that you can't already see or that has been
presented to you at this time and if you have any questions for me at this time and turn
the time back to you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Go back to the overhead. How do you get into that property right now?
McKinnon: Right now? We come in off of Jericho from Chinden Boulevard, which is the
only access currently. Leeshire Subdivision, which was recently denied, which they are
reworking on, we provided a stub street to the south, a connection to Locust G rove.
Saguaro Subdivision in its later phases will provide a stub street to here. But for right
now there is one way in on Jericho and one way out.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any other questions?
Bird: I have none at this point.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Go back to the plat, please. Thank you. The lot sizes that are adjacent to
Saguaro --
McKinnon: The lot sizes -- Anna, if you can help me out, seeing it from your computer,
if you can read those or not real clearly. These are in the 7,000 to 8,000 range. I
believe this is a 6,540 lot right here. Saguaro, as you remember, had smaller lots up on
this side, and they reduced a couple of them to make them bigger, but they were,
actually, the smaller size.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Rountree, they are -- that one is just about
7,000. That's 7,800, 7,500, 7,500, 7,000, 7,500. These get bigger. 11,433 and, then,
10,000.
Rountree: Thank you.
Meridian City Council
October 5. 2004
Page 30 of 84
McKinnon: Thank you.
De Weerd: Dave, I guess I have a question as to -- I know this is an in -fill project, but
why -- why at these densities? It's stuck in the middle of nothing right now, but why an
R-8?
McKinnon: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the R-8 zone affords a reduced lot
frontage. If you get into densities, which we are dealing with 3.3 units to the acre, the
Comprehensive Plan requests three to eight units to the acre and so, actually, the
density is well on the shallow end of that, rather than trying to cram a large number in,
there is actually less than what would be allowed in the R-4 zone. As you know, the R-8
zone affords for a variety of lot sizes and lot frontage dimensions. With a ten acre piece
of property, without having a super -size subdivision to deal with large land masses and
to be able to created the typical 80 by 100 lot, the R-8 zone affords the smaller lots, as
well as the larger lots, without having to just go with the straight 80 by 100 lot you
typically see in an R-4 zone, but as far as density goes, this falls below the typical R-4
zoning density. So, we are not asking for a large density increase for this area. This
actually would fall within an R-4 zoning density, but it has a variety of lot sizes that
wouldn't be allowed in the R-4.
De Weerd: All right. I guess my last question would be why now when you're going to
be putting this traffic out onto Chinden?
McKinnon: Why -- how many --
De Weerd: Why are you wanting to develop now without the other accesses out onto
the arterials, rather than Chinden?
McKinnon: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the 33 lots, if you take the average
daily trips, we are looking at about 300 vehicle trips per day and that's not a significant
increase on Chinden Boulevard, which currently carries in the tens of thousands of
vehicle trips per day. Leeshire Subdivision we had hoped that, you know, things would
work out with the city at this time to provide a secondary access out. We can't control
the speed of development with Saguaro Canyon. However, as you know, development
is happening at a faster pace all the time. We believe that, you know, the 300 units out
to -- 300 vehicle trips per day out to Chinden Boulevard would not significantly increase
the amount of traffic on Chinden at this time. You will see a much greater traffic impact
when Saguaro and the resulting development around this area develops to its fullest.
This is, actually, just a small development, which will provide a small impact.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 31 of 84
Rountree: I'm sure I have the answer here on my PC, but has this been coordinated
with the district department of transportation?
McKinnon: Yes.
Rountree: And their comments were —
McKinnon: The comments were it's an existing access on Jericho; they are not going to
shut Jericho down.
Rountree: Any concern about left turn movements from Chinden into this area for
safety on a two-lane facility?
McKinnon: Madam Mayor, Commissioner Rountree, as you know, Chinden Boulevard
for this area there has been studies that have been completed and there is a plan in the
-- I wish I could say the very near future, but I can't say that right now, but to widen
Chinden in the future and to provide additional lanes for Chinden. Chinden is a very
large growth corridor and they plan on widening Chinden in the future.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, if Dave will indulge me -- and this, really, hasn't -- question
isn't specifically to do with this development, but in the past few months -- actually,
weeks, we have seen this -- we have seen Leeshire and we have seen Saguaro and we
have seen a couple other fairly large subdivisions in this general area. What could the
city do to facilitate the various landowners that all of a sudden decided they want to
develop, to get them together and master plan larger areas of land, as opposed to this
ten acres, you have got five and seven acres to your west of this facility that's in this
area that's going to -- who knows, in the next few weeks we might be seeing those as
well. And I'm having a hard time making sense of all of these little incremental
developments that are going on in this particular area. We haven't seen it so much in
some of the other areas of the city, but right here it's -- it's going to be a jig saw puzzle
before we are done and I'm not sure we are going to like what we are going to have.
McKinnon: Boy, that -- Madam Mayor and Councilmember Rountree, boy, that's a tall
order to answer in just a few minutes.
Rountree: Just some insight, because you're working on that side of the fence.
McKinnon: On this side of the fence now and having worked on the other side of the
fence the last few years, there is a lot that can be done. The City of Meridian Planning
and Zoning Department -- I know in talking with Anna and having worked in it, they are
burdened at this time. The comprehensive planning process I think was probably the
most appropriate process for handling this. There was a great deal of thought, a lot of
community involvement that went through this in the last few years, where the
community was gathered and the map right here, there was a lot of discussion as to
how was this going to be developed and those people were brought together at the
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 32 of 84
same time in the same room. Comprehensive plans have a way of doing that. In recent
discussions between yourself and other developers there has been discussion to revive
the -- I guess what's now dead, the north Meridian plan. Under the north Meridian plan
there will be a large group of people who are really very interested in finding out what
would happen with their property. There was some discussion amongst the developers
and amongst members of staff that the Comprehensive Plan needs some work in this
area and one of the ways to do that would be to hold additional hearings to change that
and that would be probably through the north Meridian plan. That would be the best
way to get the groups of people together. As far as controlling the development, there
is no way to control who is willing to pay what and how much and it's going to be very
hard to determine which company would be the right company to gather everybody and
to master plan for the area. However, the city itself can do master planning for specific
areas. That was one of the ideas of the Comprehensive Plan was to provide for
neighborhood planning in specific areas in the future, but that's something that takes
time to do and it's hard to do that with a burdened staff.
Rountree: Thank you
De Weerd: I guess, though, Dave, we do know that the Comprehensive Plan and the
north Meridian plan don't offer the specifics I think that Councilman Rountree is talking
about to see how it would connect and how we -- how all of these started fitting together
and I realize that the other portions of the north Meridian area we've seen have been
large tracts of land and so that has given us benefits seeing what the big picture looks
like. And I would agree with Councilman Rountree, if there is a way that we can start
pulling this together and seeing it in a larger — even if it's one landowner at a time, but if
we see the bigger picture, it does make for a better community plan.
McKinnon: I would agree with that. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the
Comprehensive Plan does address that. There is a need for neighborhood planning for
specific areas. There is, actually, a goal statement in the Comprehensive Plan to
provide for specific neighborhood design. I can tell you that this developer, as well as
myself, I have met with the property owner to the northeast, the property owner to the
south at Leeshire, Grant Lee, as you know I worked on the Saguaro Subdivision, this
isn't something that's been piecemealed together, we have had some access issues we
have had to work with. Leeshire Subdivision to the south, initially we had a different
location for the stub street to the south, we have worked with them to provide the stub
street there. We have worked with Saguaro to meet their stub street requirements. So,
there is a great deal of interaction between developers to try to create that, but, as you
know, in the free market economy that we live in, it's very hard to determine how many
and how much the price is going to go for and what can happen until a master plan
does happen and there isn't one yet.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKinnon: Thank you.
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October 5, 2004
Page 33 of 84
De Weerd: Okay. We do have a Public Hearing. I do have one person signed up,
Mark -- Mike, I believe? I'm sorry. Mark.
Miller: Sorry I scribbled.
De Weerd: Now have you been sworn in?
Miller: Not -- I will.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Miller: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and spell your last name,
and provide your address.
Miller: My name is Mark Miller, 1906 East Dunwoody Court. I just wanted to come up
and actually kind of ask the Council to look again at the bigger picture of what's
happening i n north Meridian. I think the comments that you have a Iready made a re
completely appropriate. You can see -- can you just show the overhead aerial? You
can see the issues in addition for what -- I live over here on Dunwoody, but the
piecemeal approach to developing this area certainly brings up the issues that you have
already talked about. This one is pretty small, but we look at this one and this one and
wonder what in the world could somebody propose to try to jigsaw puzzle all these
things in together. So, we had come to Planning and Zoning and asked them to please
-- because even though this is medium density residential and their lot sizes actually fit
R-4 zoning, that we have it zoned as R-4 and it at the very least would allow the rest of
the things that fill in around here to have at least a better community. I think what we
are worried about the most is the general community of this northeast part of Meridian
and the way it's developing and we would love to have a master plan that would require
everybody to get together. I think that should be possible. Obviously, there is financial
interests other ways that are pressuring people to do other things, but we are talking
about the community in 10, 20, 30, 50 years from now and that's the whole reason for a
plan is to protect the way things will be long in the future. The other reason I came
today is -- can you put up the master city plan for me?
Canning: The zoning map?
Miller: Just the master city -- the future land use map. Do you have that? The same
thing that's down here on the ground.
Canning: Hold one.
Miller: If you will notice -- it's hard to see here, but we talked about this at the Leeshire
Meeting, there is a -- there is a multi -use pathway that my wife talked about, she's the
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 34 of 84
mother of four kids and triplets and we walk all the time, we are planning on using,
hopefully, this neighborhood center and the ideal situation will be here, but if there is not
a plan to keep this multi -use pathway in this master plan, we may have a problem and
you will notice that the multi -use pathway cuts the corner of this ten acre property and
there is no alternative plan for the multi -use pathway. There has been a question as to
whether you could connect through a -- through Larkwood Subdivision here, but there
probably will be some real issues, possibly even legal, of getting a multi -use pathway
through an already developed agricultural neighborhood. So, we'd love to have the
continuity of the multi -use pathway, because we think it's important for the master plan
of this northern area, it needs to be addressed. There is certainly an easy possibility to
keep it connected as it follows the post -- the back end of this church property, requiring
Leeshire and we just request that since -- if things do end up having to be piecemeal,
that the master plan at least be followed the way it is and if we do decide to put an extra
multi -use pathway in here, it would hurt nobody to have two multi -use pathways or an
extra way for people to run or get to a park, but I think there just needs to be a larger
picture evaluated and we would request that maybe we could make this into R-4 zoning,
if -- we'd prefer to have everything develop around the same time or at least have some
type of master plan and require the owners of the properties to make a little bit more of
an effort to do something that's better for the city and better for the area, but I just -- I
think what my wife wanted to -- let me come down and leave the kids, so we can put
them to bed, was to tell you to, please, leave the master plan the way it is and, please,
require these developers to put in things that are already amenities that are planned.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there any further testimony? Okay.
McKinnon: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Mark hit on a couple
really good issues and I'd just like to --
De Weerd: Just restate your name.
McKinnon: Dave McKinnon, 735 South Crosstimber.
De Weerd: Thank you.
McKinnon: The micro -path -- I guess the large pathway system, as you will recall from
a month and a half ago -- or maybe it was longer ago than that, the Saguaro Canyon
Subdivision, there was a lot of discussion about the multi -use pathway and as you will
recall, the multi -use pathway determined that coming off of the canal right here there
was a large 100 foot wide landscape easement that was there and we decided to put in
a ten foot wide pathway there, rather than a sidewalk. That was in lieu of the pathway
coming up on this side of Larkwood. There is a ten -foot wide pathway going up through
Saguaro Canyon Subdivision, up to the mid point. At the mid point there was
discussion of taking that pathway, bringing it up with a six foot wide detached sidewalk
from the center of the subdivision through Leeshire Subdivision to provide the access,
rather than having the smaller -- it kind of comes up and around this direction to avoid
Meridian Clty Council
October 5, 2004
Page 35 of 84
Larkwood. That way we would have a pathway that comes up, provides access to the
school site, and to the site of the Ashenbrenner piece of property. In addition to that,
there is a sewer easement that's hopeful to come through here and come through
Larkwood. The pathway itself was intended to come through at this point with the sewer
easement as well. So, there is a pathway already that was approved with the Saguaro
Canyon Subdivision. So, the pathway is something that was addressed, even though
Saguaro Canyon only had a minor portion of that. So, the pathway actually comes up
and, then, runs through this direction all the way out to Locust Grove, rather than only
having the single access way to the south on Locust Grove. So, that has been
addressed. A couple other issues that Mark hit on is the hodge-podge and we have
talked a little bit about that. In your Comprehensive Plan there is a number of policies
that are listed. A number of those policies include interconnectivity, a variety of different
housing types and that's what this is providing. There are some limitations with this site.
It's ten acres. It does have some in -fill as you said, and we are trying to provide as best
we can for those policies. If you can flip back to the overhead, again, Anna. I guess the
-- the project. There we go. If you can go one more just into the subdivision. There we
go. We tried to provide open space, a variety of different housing types. The open
space requirement -- you know, we have provided more than what's necessary. This is
a small piece of property. Provided three stub streets on ten acres, 12 percent open
space, and we have tried to provide all the amenities that you would see in a bigger
subdivision on a small subdivision. And, actually, more amenities with the open space.
We feel that the attempts to keep the trees here to try to reduce the amount of work that
your new attorney has to do by getting rid of the development agreement are all positive
things. If there is anything that we can do to accommodate, you know, the greater area,
we would try to do that. As you know, the development community all know each other
and t hey work together. We feel t hat t his piece of -- t his p iece o f p roperty w ith t he
accesses to all the adjoining properties has met the intent of the Comprehensive Plan.
The 3.3 dwelling u nits per a cre meets the density requirements of t he t hree to e ight
units per acre for the Comprehensive Plan and we'd ask for your approval at this time.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: ACHD has indicated that Jericho will be extended from the north of the
property. What's the intent there? What's a typical section, what's the surfacing, what's
the drainage, who is going to be responsible?
McKinnon: Who is going to be responsible for the construction of Jericho all the way
out?
Rountree: The care and feeding of it once it's done.
McKinnon: Ada County Highway District.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
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Rountree: Okay. What's a typical section?
McKinnon: What's a typical section? With the amount of vehicle trips, it would be
probably a 36 -foot street section, with a 50 -foot right of way. T his is not a collector
status street, but it is a local street. It doesn't fall in the half mile. Typically 36 paved.
Rountree: Drained? That's all I have. Thanks, Dave.
McKinnon: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Are there any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Just -- not to bring the other -- other developments into the concern of this, but
one of the things that we heard -- and we have heard in past areas from neighbors and
from some of the people around this is buffering and difference of lot sizes and I believe
we had a conversation last week or several weeks ago that the difference between
6,200 square feet and 6,700 square feet was not a differential in lot size. And I do see
this here. I see the difference between 6,500 and 12,000 feet and I see some buffering
and so I would just like to point that out from my opinion of what -- what's different about
this development versus some of the others that we have seen in the area. And the fact
-- again, the fact that we are not seeing a PUD used to -- to try to create smaller lot
sizes, to create different housing types, they have done that within the R-8 zone and
kept the density down, so just some of my observations.
De Weerd: Thank you. Staff, I know in the development to the south of this, the
pathway was brought up. Has staff -- is it staffs recommendation to not carry that line
on our Comprehensive Plan up through the property to the south, that it won't have an
affect on this?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I suppose staffs recommendation is
that it -- that it follow this sewer easement through this subdivision and connect up to
Saguaro, but I would have to admit that it's a rather weak recommendation and the
reason that we have gone back and forth on this is that that line is not following any
natural feature and we have discovered that the -- that the quality of those open spaces
is sometimes not all that great. They end up following just on -- into the sides of streets,
because there is not a physical constraint to development in that area, they often end
up just being on the streets and, actually, that's the way it was in Saguaro anyway, but it
followed a linear pathway system, if you remember on Saguaro. So, it was kind of
creating a little bit better of effect of pedestrian or bicycle atmosphere. We were very
concerned that it wouldn't get passed the L DS church in this location, given that it's
already developed. Coming up through here became difficult and, again, there is just
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 37 of 84
no natural feature for it to follow. The Saguaro one did come up and end -- I think right
about where Mr. Grant's house is, even with it. So, it's kind of ended in this area. We
had talked about continuing it on the street through Leeshire and, then, the
neighborhood center is, technically, in this area. And Brad would like to add to that, too.
Watson: Madam Mayor and Council Members, I guess I wasn't aware that anyone was
considering a sewer easement for a public pathway. We are in negotiations with these
property owners and Larkwood Subdivision and I very much expect that one of the
limitations on their granting an easement, if they do, would be that the public not be
walking through their side -yards. Just getting a sewer easement with gates on each
side with emergency access only would be a bonus to me, putting aside the public
pathway. That's all I have. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Watson
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Not seeing the parks director here, I will just have -- relate some of the
discussions we have had in my work on the parks commission, on the pathways
committee, and now as the liaison to the parks department and that is the fact that when
looking at the master plan for the parks system and the pathway system, the overall
idea was conceptual and so what we are finding is that by working with the development
community at this point in time, the parks department is able to provide some
connectivity and so just to talk about some of the things that Anna has mentioned, we
are finding out within the pathways committee and that is that the lines were not always
drawn on a natural feature, such as an irrigation ditch or some sort of an area that
would just naturally be able to, with some work and cooperation with the irrigation
district, be able to turn into a natural pathway for the community, so just offer that.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, Mr. Wardle and Anna, I hope now that we have a
transportation planner, that we start having a stronger master plan for these pathways,
so we do know what the expectations are and how we are connecting up. The
alternative forms and how we connect are important for our community and so it was a
topic that was brought in the application to the south of this piece that seemed to still be
unanswered and this is our only chance on this one.
Canning: Madam Mayor, may I make a soap box comment, since I have a few
developers captive, at least one of them.
De Weerd: You bet.
Canning: There is no reason that a pathway couldn't be built with a nice feel to it or a
secluded feel to it, even though it's not following a natural feature. We have just not
seen anybody bring one in so far.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 38 of 84
McKinnon: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just a few comments. That was a
big issue for Saguaro. There wasn't any way for it to connect and so that's the reason
why they brought it in up off of McMillan, was because there was no other way to bring it
in, other than if it was coming in off of Leeshire, which, actually, doesn't follow the
master plan, because the master plan for the pathway shows it much further to the
south than coming in off of Leeshire, but we felt there should be an additional
connection. That's the reason why it was to go through there. Brad pointed out
accurately that the Larkwood Homeowners Association didn't want to have a pathway
there, but we have provided within Saguaro the opportunity for that to happen if there
was ever a desire for Larkwood to accommodate that and that's part of the reason that
we did that. And, finally, just -- if you had had a chance to look at the ground truthing of
the pathway system, there is two of them that I really enjoy within the Comprehensive
Plan that I think you have all seen before. There is micro -path -- if you can go back to
the Comprehensive Plan, Anna. My favorite one is the micro -path that goes across 1-84
and the micro -path that crosses Victory Road three times within a quarter mile. So, it
gets to be a little awkward. Having worked on this Comprehensive -- right here it
crosses one, two, three times in a quarter mile. None of them are at intersections,
across a 50 -mile an hour road. And this micro -path that crosses 1-84 is a personal
favorite. The idea is to try to get those to come to happen, but they weren't ground
truthed and that was a discussion that we have had and it's a discussion that we have
had for years on this Comprehensive Plan is how are we going to get these to happen
and so in order to accommodate some things, they accommodated the pathway to
come up through Saguaro to provide access to the school site and provide access out
to Locust Grove and, as you know in the future, as McMillan builds out on the north side
you will probably see the pathway continue along McMillan, a larger pathway, because
of the Lemp Canal that sits on the north side of McMillan. It doesn't provide for the easy
access for sidewalks.
De Weerd: Well, Dave, I think you have earned a berth on the pathway committee,
since you have favorites, as you want to note.
McKinnon: As you know, I'm happy to serve.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: There was the question about the development agreement Mr. McKinnon raised.
In looking at the minutes it appears originally -- and I guess I wanted Mrs. Canning's
opinion -- originally it appeared that the fencing issue was felt resolved by the staff by
preliminary plat conditions and, then, the discussion at the Planning and Zoning
Commission seemed to, then, move to a development agreement and Mr. McKinnon
sort of agreed with that, in having that, and I guess I'm unclear as to why that digressed,
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 39 of 84
even in looking at the minutes. Obviously, there is a concern about making sure they
are site obscuring, that there is no sight obscuring fencing around that common area
and along the micro -path, as well as the rest of the common area, but we have dealt
with those before through preliminary plat conditions and we don't always do those two
development agreements, so I guess I wasn't clear from looking at the minutes why it
digressed to that.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Nary -- that's going to take
awhile. You know, I -- in all honesty, I don't remember much of the discussion, other
than the staff planner just had somehow brought it up. So, I don't feel strongly about it
at all. I don't understand why we couldn't do it as a condition of approval. I don't know if
she had gotten legal advice from White Peterson to the contrary, but I'm not sure on that
issue.
Nary: Yeah. I read the staff attorney's comments there and I think it was the same
thing, they seemed to get on this tack of having a development agreement, but, you
know, it appears for that -- for that particular use -- or particular issue they wanted to be
concerned with a plat condition that's adequate I think to meet the same desire, to make
sure there is four foot fencing, if there is fencing. If there is less than -- it can be more
than if it's non -sight obscuring. I think all of those can be down through the conditions of
approval, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council? Or do you need to -- good. I wasn't
going to recognize you anyway.
Nary: Quit when you're ahead.
De Weerd: Is there something important you wish to add? Okay. Council?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Hearing no more public comment, I would move to close the Public Hearing.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearings on Items 11 and
12. Is that the motion?
Wardle: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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October 5, 2004
Page 40 of 84
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Before I make a motion, Brad, you had mentioned that item number seven --
was your intent to remove the recommendation of -- or sewer through Leeshire and
Saguaro Canyon and replace that with other adjacent property owners or to add other
adjacent property owners?
Watson: Madam Mayor and Councilmember Wardle, the latter. Just add other adjacent
property owners, because without Leeshire they are stuck with Saguaro, which won't
work.
Wardle: And, then, another question for Mr. Nary. Mr. Nary, was the condition of
recommendation placed to require a development agreement? Would we have to
remove that condition and, then, add a plat condition?
Bird: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Wardle, yes, you need to change those
recommendations.
Wardle: On both applications?
Nary: Yes.
Wardle: With that, Madam Mayor, I move that we approve AZ 04-021, annexation and
zoning for Arcadia Subdivision, to remove the specific condition requiring a
development agreement, to place in its place a condition that no sight obscuring fencing
be placed near the micro -path or the open area and to change condition number seven
requiring -- to add the phrase: Or other adjacent property in reference to obtaining
sewer connection.
Canning: Councilmember Wardle, the micro -path fencing that we had discussed earlier
does allow four foot of solid fencing and, then, two feet of lattice. I believe your motion
just said no sight obscuring. I just wanted to clarify is that what you -- is that what you
really wanted?
Wardle: Yes. As I recall, the developer agreed to -- to that specific fencing type, if the
neighbors were to put the fences up.
Canning: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Do I have a second?
Rountree: Second.
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October 5, 2004
Page 41 of 84
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No. 11 with the
amendment as noted. Is there any further discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If we move forward with this motion in an affirmative way, is it consistent with
the recommendation and decision that we put forth on the Leeshire Subdivision? I can't
remember exactly the reasons for denial of that and I want to make sure that we are
consistent here. I think it had to do more with -- yeah, density and lack of a mix of lots.
It was pretty -- it was either one great big lot or a bunch of little tiny ones.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Rountree, I believe that's correct. I don't know
that we have seen those, have we? We haven't seen them, but you're correct, it was
based on the fact there was one large lot, there was this division almost in the middle of
the subdivision, you had all small lots on one side of it, that -- some of it was the
density, but a lot of it was the design. Right.
De Weerd: The green space
Nary: The green space was Mr. Lee's yard.
Rountree: I just wanted to bring that out, so --
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: -- get my memory refreshed.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Item No. 12, PP 04-028, preliminary
plat for Arcadia Subdivision, to add to condition number seven the phrase: Or other
adjacent property in reference to gaining sewer connection, to remove the condition for
a development agreement and to add a condition which would limit specifically the
fencing type discussed in the Public Hearing to the micro -path and the open space.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 42 of 84
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approval Item 12 with the changes
as noted. Any further discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 13 is Public Hearing VAR 04-006. I'll open this
Public Hearing with staff comments. No. I'm opening the Public Hearing with staff
comments. Thank you.
Rountree: Can we take a break?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request for a variance --
De Weerd: Anna, I think we are going to take a ten-minute break per Council's request.
(Recess.)
Item 13: Public Hearing: VAR 04-006 Request for a Variance from MCC 11-10-6
to allow a childcare/preschool for five or fewer children to be operated in a
required garage area of a single-family home in an R-4 zone for Earl and
Donna Bohrn by Earl and Donna Bohrn — 1451 North Santa Rosa Place:
De Weerd: I will call this meeting back to order. Okay. We are on Item 13 and I will
open the Public Hearing on VAR 04-006 with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council --
De Weerd: Oh, Anna, I'm sorry, just to note, we did receive a letter. The author of the
letter did ask that it be kept confidential. When we receive letters from the public it is
open to the public, so we don't have the choice to honor that. I just wanted to note that
for anyone who might be curious in the public.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a variance to the code
requirement that requires that every residential house have a garage capable of
housing two automobiles. The subject property, as you can see, it's in the Vineyards
Subdivision located off of Linder and Cherry. It is also a developed neighborhood. I
was going to run through some of the exhibits. This is the Bohm's home and you can
see the two car garage door is still i n place. The third bay of the garage has been
replaced with a window and a door -- with a door entry. This was the site plan that
came in for the accessory use. Okay. I'm going to go back now and touch on some of
the history of this application. Mrs. Bohm applied for an accessory use permit in May of
this year to operate a preschool for five or fewer children in her home and we did send
out notice to abutting property owners about the proposed use and we published in the
Statesman and there were no objections filed within the allowed time period. When
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October 5, 2004
Page 43 of 84
staff had taken in the application, at first glance it appeared that these asterisks are the
locations where the preschool would be going on and it was our understanding that the
preschool would be in that third bay of the garage, not in the entire garage area. Prior
to approval of the accessory use permit Ms. Allen went out to inspect the facility and
was -- unfortunately, had to tell Mrs. Bohm that she could not use the whole garage,
that she still needed to have a garage capable of handling two children -- or two cars.
Excuse me. Had we known that in advance -- which often happens when accessory
use permits come in, the garage is often where they do want to have the use occur and
we tell them right off the bat that it can't -- you still have to have a garage for your home,
that where there is a third bay of the garage, you can use that third bay for an accessory
use permit, such as a home occupation or a day care for five or fewer children. The
Bohrns are now, as I said, asking for a variance to allow them to use those -- that
garage as -- the full garage as the preschool area. Upon notice to the surrounding
property owners, we did get several objections this time, mostly in regard to the use of
the daycare being operated out of the garage. The reasons for the objections were a
business in the home is against CC&Rs, the preschool would create additional traffic,
which would be a hazard to pedestrians and autos, concerns about the impact on
property values of adjacent homes, another child care facility not needed due to the two
existing facilities in close proximity, on -street parking and safety concerns for children
being dropped off or picked up and the potential noise created by children. Staff was
not able to make the findings for denial, so the staff recommendation is -- I mean --
excuse me. Staff was not able to make the recommendation to approve the variance or
not able to make the findings for the variance, so we are recommending denial. And I
will leave that as staffs presentation.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions for staff at this time? Okay. Would the
applicant like to come forward? And I know you have been sworn in. If you will, please,
state your name and address.
Bohm: My name is Donna Bohm and I live at 1451 North Santa Rosa Place.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bohm: I am aware that you probably have the packet that has all the complaints and
stuff like that, is that true?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bohm: Okay. One of the things I'd first like to start off with is I thank you for listening to
me tonight, taking your time to make this decision. I have been dealing with this since
May and I'm very passionate about this. I came from Nevada a year ago and I ran a
very successful business out of my home in a subdivision there. I ran through over 120
kids through my program and got them prepared for kindergarten. I just want to start
out in my home, because I'm unfortunate where I can't go out and rent retail space to
allow me to do this. So, I thought I could just do it in my home. I thought my home was
my home and I thought what i had done on the inside of mine and I found out since that
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
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time that it's not. A lot of people, if you looked around this room, probably half of us
have had a dream of wanting to open our own business, to run our open business, to be
our own boss. There has been several people -- famous people that have started their
business in their garages. Bill Gates. Dell Computers. Some bands, like Simple Plan.
Just to mention a few. I wasn't aware that I had made so much trouble in the
neighborhood. I barely received today this packet. I was shocked when I heard all the
bad things, comments and stuff that -- you know, here I was trying to do this legal, I
have been doing it since M ay and here now all of a sudden I find out that all these
people are objecting to me because of traffic. One of the things that was in the packet
that disturbed me was a whole bunch of pictures -- and I don't know -- Anna, do you
have them up to show?
Canning: No, we just had photocopied ones. I can use the photocopied ones.
Bohm: That are up -- that you can put up there? What was bothering me is that they
put that there was the traffic impact. These pictures that were in this packet that was e-
mailed to me are taken in the evening. I don't have anything going on yet. I don't have
a business going, so I didn't have any of this traffic. The only one picture that's there is
my camper in front after we came back from a camping trip to unload. So, I was
bothered by that. My neighbors across the street that aren't here that don't have an
objection to it, have a church thing that they have twice a week. They have a lot of
traffic. The people living next door to us have 11 children, so when they come to visit --
they have and have had family gathers quite often, there is a lot of traffic. Those are all
in the evenings most of the time. My preschool would be three days a week for three
hours a day for five kids or under to start out. And as soon as I could build up enough
name and recognition, then, I would go out into the community and rent a retail
commercial zoned property to expand. So, I would like to know if on some of these
things that you had in your packet, if I can rebuttal some of them or do I have to wait?
Because I have never done this before.
De Weerd: Yes, you can comment on those.
Bohm: Do I comment on them now or after people speak?
De Weerd: If you would like to -- you have 15 minutes, so --
Bohm: Okay. Right here -- let's see. This is our house right here. Next door
neighbors. Yes, our camper is parked there, because, like I said, it was summer. Right
there. He got a good shot, I guess. All these cars right here are either for the neighbor
that's parked right here and the camper, or it's for the people right across the street over
here that you can't see their house. Right here. There is -- I have people that are with
me tonight that can tell you that during the day there is hardly any traffic and there is
hardly any cars parked on this street. There is a business down the street that's a nail
business. I don't know whether it's got a license or not, but I got a flyer saying that she
was doing nails in her home. She's going to have probably more than five clients a day.
You know, I don't -- I don't know. But my thing is most of mine -- I know three people
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that were going to send their kids to my school and they are in walking distance. And
so on this I don't think I have an impact and when I looked at these pictures that were in
your packet, they don't have anything to do with my case. So, I would ask that they not
be considered in. Is that -- I mean can I do that? I don't know.
De Weerd: Yes, you can --
Bird: Sure.
Bohm: Okay. Thank you. Let's see. One thing that I did get permission from AMI,
which I believe I gave you a copy in the packet and the first one says that they will grant
a conditional waiver on -- to let me do my business, to conduct a business in my
residence. This is dated July 17th and it says that the single car garage door may be
modified for use as an emergency exit. However, in the event you move the preschool
out of your home or close the school, the modifications to the garage will be removed
and the garage door will be restored to the original condition. And me and my husband
agreed to this. We had always planned on this. It wasn't a permanent thing. But what
bothered me about this letter is it says vehicles may not regularly be parked on the city
streets. That's fine. But what bothers me is that the letter that the Vineyards sent to
you objecting to this, says -- and it's the one, two, three -- third paragraph down, the last
sentence, it says: One of the conditions that the board temporarily approved this waiver
is that no vehicles may be parked on the driveway or street. And I got nothing but run
around. Every time -- I talked to this man, David Crandall, that is supposed to be the
neighborhood manager, I talked to him back in April when I was thinking of doing this,
because when I bought a house here I thought the CC&Rs -- and I was concerned, well,
how can they across the street and do child care if there is not supposed to be any
businesses. So, I called and he says, oh, if it's a preschool, daycare, you can do that. I
thought, okay, you know, that's fine. I also told him about the garage, the door, and he
said that it would have to go through this. So, we went through all the steps, we got,
like I said, the letter on July 17th approving it and now all of a sudden it's like they are
taking it back in this letter that they sent to you. So, I'm really bothered by that. If they
didn't want me to do it, they should have told me in the first place and, then, I wouldn't
have spent all this time and money and your time also. The next thing is, there was a
lot of comments with excessive noise and, like I said before, I think a lot of people
misconstrue that it is a daycare and it's not, it's a preschool. They would be there for
three hours. They would be outside for 15, 20 minutes tops, weather permitting.
Wintertime when it's raining, snowing, they are not going to be outside. Also, I do not
teach in the summer. You know, it goes with the school year, just like everything else
does. Let's see. I also had talked to a few parents, because I have been advertising
trying to get -- if it does go, that they would be able to start and so with some of them
I've talked to them about maybe parking on the side street -- which can we go to the
map, Anna? Okay. So, the side street would be — I'm sorry. I'm shaking. Cherry Lane.
You would come in here and the side street would be right here. It's called Sonoma.
And right here, these two houses right here, have no driveway on these -- on this street
right here Sonoma, right where I'm pointing. This little intersection here, from here to
here. So, they would be able to park there and walk around the corner two houses
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
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down and drop off their kids, takes maybe three minutes tops, walk back, they have to
sign them in, that's it. Let's see. Then the last one I wanted to comment on was the
one that's from Planning and Zoning. I wanted to reiterate again that when I first filed
for the accessory use that I had no complaints of my immediate neighbors that were
adjacent to me or touched my boundaries. Also, on the next page in response to the
preschool will create additional traffic and would be a hazard, I believe that, you know, it
doesn't take very long, they could come in intervals of -- if you requested that, I could
have them come every, you know, 15 minutes. It says that they were concerned about
the impact of the property value. Well, as you can see from the picture of my house,
there is really no difference looking at it in this -- looking at the exit for handicapped
children to come and go and I have a handicapped relative that I would have to build a
ramp at my front door to be able to allow them to come in just to have dinner. So, I
thought it would be, you know, kind of like both ways. My handicapped person could go
in through my garage, you know, entrance door. Plus for a fire -- another fire escape
and for if I get any special needs children that meet that requirement, which not very
many people take, versus preschool, so that's another added bonus to my preschool.
Also, with the property values, I would like to ask them -- or ask you if they can be
saying this without doing market research and see what an appraiser or a real estate
agent -- to say that this would actually affect it, the property value. Do you know if they
can actually say -- you know, because it was also in some of the people's comments,
the neighbor's comments about bringing down the value?
De Weerd: Well, they can make those comments.
Bohm: Okay.
Rountree: People say a lot of things.
Bohm: Okay. Thank you. Also, it says that there is two childcare facilities, so there is
not a need for anymore. Well, did they do a market research, did they see if it was all
tapped out, that all those preschools were full? I did before I started this and they were
full. So, to my idea if they are full and have a waiting list, there is a need for another
one. So, that's why I thought, bingo, here we go, I will try this area right here in my own
backyard. Okay? So, I didn't really like that comment, especially from Planning and
Zoning, which I didn't appreciate. I mean how can someone decide if you should have
another preschool or not in that area? And, let's see, then there was -- on the next page
-- I think the most part of my neighbors are objecting to is my business, which as it said
on the first page -- or it says on this page right here on the top paragraph, the preschool
could be reasonably accommodated in the living portion of the existing residence. So, if
I wouldn't have done it in my garage, I would be open for business right now today. So,
that was my concern is that I think they just had a problem with my -- the traffic that it's
going to bring the business and I think that the issue here today is if I can have a garage
that's not used as a garage and I think that's what we need to decide tonight and I'm
asking you to decide that on that fact, not on the fact that I'm going to be watching five
kids, three days a week, three hours a day. I have done that so it won't cause an
impact. I could do it five days a week, but I chose not to, because, to me, that's helping
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
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with the community, so there is not so much traffic and stuff during the day. My hours of
operation are 9:00 to 3:30, but that's hours of operation when people can come and
check out the preschool and that's when I'm there. So, I think a lot of people got
misconstrued about that fact, because they were saying that, you know, if it was going
to be all day long a daycare type situation, but it's not. One more thing I'd like to ask, if I
can submit a couple pictures to you. And you can have this to keep. I had put in the
packet on question 11 and -- 10 and 11 that there was a house on Linder and I'm new to
this, so I don't know if this house was built before '92 or not when the ordinance took
effect to having a two car garage, but this one is a mortgage company and they clearly
have made a garage into a mortgage company. So, I'll submit those. And, then, I just
wanted to -- when I talked to Planning and Zoning, we had some problems, we had a
meeting a Itogether and with the compliance officer, with P lanning a nd Zoning, Anna,
and Kristy, and the building inspector and they told me they would do whatever they
could to help me and they would come out and take pictures and they would have them
for a slide show. Well, when I went down to sign and turn in my paper that I had posted
my notice and asked when they would be able to come out and take pictures, they said,
oh, don't worry, we'll just come out and take some of the outside and I was bothered by
that, because if you see on the inside, I have put my whole heart and soul into this and I
know that was a little much, but I do a very decent program and I do quality and when I
do something I do it a hundred percent and I do it the right way and that's why I was
doing -- trying to do this legal. And I apologize for any error that I may have made
tonight, because I have never done this before. Thank you.
Canning: Madam Mayor, would you like me to put those overhead?
Bohm: Do you want me to explain them?
De Weerd: Yeah. We will have you just make comments.
Bohm: Okay. They are not very good. Well, this is the door coming in from outside
that we put in and the window is right here. This right here is the door going out to our
backyard. So, the door and window that we put in the third bay would be right over
here. This right here is the front of the garage door, two -car garage. As you can see, it
doesn't look like a garage, it looks like a school and that's the atmosphere that I wanted
to portray, because when children come to my school, they know they are at school and
they are eager to learn and I think they learn better in an environment that's set up that
way.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have questions?
Bird: I don't.
Rountree: No.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
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October 5, 2004
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Bohm: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a number of people signed up and I will read off your name. If
you would I Ike to provide testimony, feel free to stand u p and come forward. K evin
Snow signed up against. Were you sworn in?
Snow: I was.
De Weerd: Okay, Thank you. Just state your name and address.
Snow: Kevin Snow, 1470 North Silverado Place.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Snow: Council Members, Madam Mayor, thank you for this opportunity to speak. I'm
here on behalf of the homeowners association of the Vineyards and I am somewhat
familiar with the situation of the Bohm's preschool that has operated over this past
summer. I apologize for Dave Crandall, he was out of town this week and so I'm here
somewhat in his place. I can't testify for him. I can tell you what he's told me of the
situation and my understanding of working with him and his attempts to work with the
Bohrns over the past few months. Earlier this year the Bohrns made plans to operate a
business out of their residential home. I believe they did contact Dave Crandall and
notify him and the homeowners association of this. There are provisions made that
people can run limited size daycares out of their homes and with that understanding
Dave Crandall proceeded. However, he was not aware of the modifications to the home
at that time, whether due to a miscommunication on his part I don't know. When we did
find out, through advertisements and so forth, and some of the neighbors discussing it
with us, that there were modifications to the home, Dave Crandall immediately
attempted to contact the Bohrns to notify them of the provisions of the two -car garage
requirement. He left messages, but was unable to make contact with the Bohrns until
after the modifications had been completed. In the spirit of good will, a temporary
waiver was offered for the summer. This was done providing that the Bohrns adhere to
the law applicable to business in a residential area and that they would not be parking
their vehicles in the street. Normal CC&Rs for our subdivision indicate that you do not
park in the driveway overnight and I believe that was assumed. There was also the
expectation that they would seek a more suitable location for their intended preschool
as s oon as c ould be done. That t he p Ian that t hey g ave was f or a pproximately f ive
children per class and to run multiple classes on different days throughout the school
year and during part of the summer. The Bohrns did make an extra effort to insure that
their modifications fit the look and style of the home, which we appreciated. The
homeowners association is particularly aware of parking complaints on this street. Not
necessarily traffic, but parking. The ordinance requiring two car garages has been most
effective in keeping vehicles away from the street and to clear the field of view for local
traffic. When I step out of my house on a given day, I can see 200 yards to the stop
sign down the street, all the doors -- nobody parked on the side of the street, maybe
one or two cars in driveways. It's wonderful. However, when we come to this particular
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October 5, 2004
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street -- can we back up to the overall plat of the Vineyards, please? As you can see,
there is a slight bend in the road, right about where the Bohm's house is. Driveways in
the immediate vicinity are often filled to capacity in this location and multiple cars
frequently line the street on both sides. Because it takes this bend, the street can have
the appearance of being completely blocked off from the intersection as you approach
towards the cul-de-sac. I have seen the pictures that have been presented. That's a
pretty bad case. I have been there at 7:00 in the morning, at 11:00 o'clock, I have been
there in the early afternoon, I haven't seen it quite that bad, but I have consistently seen
cars p arked on both sides a nd very f requently s ee, t hrough all h ours of the day, full
driveways. There have been times when cars may not pass each other on this stretch
of road with confidence, meaning that it is so constricted and it's at that bend, that
you're heading right at another car if it's coming to pass you in that particular stretch of
road. We also fear the combination of full driveways and vehicles lining the streets
added to the actions of picking up and dropping off small children is particularly
dangerous. The field of view from doorway to curb is blocked by parked vehicles on
occasion, as is the first seven feet of the street. This is clearly a hazard to the
community and a disservice to the residents of the street. I do not know to what degree
the Bohrns may contribute to this traffic problem. I do know that this is the current
situation now without any in and out traffic due to additional things like people dropping
off children. On my way to this meeting tonight I drove by the street and noted that four
cars were parked in front of the Bohm's home. I don't believe they all belong to the
Bohrns, but just a point that it's not them that's the problem, necessarily, but it's a
problem location.
De Weerd: Sir, you need to summarize. Your time is up.
Snow: I'll summarize. In view of the problems already evident, the homeowners
association strongly recommends that the request for a variance, making the operation
of the preschool potentially permanent and aggravating an already dangerous
circumstance, be denied and that the ordinance requiring a functional two -car garage be
strictly enforced. Thank you for this opportunity to speak.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any questions, Council. Okay. Thank you. Alex
Salinas signed up against. Okay. Russ Coyle. I'm sorry, after 9:00 o'clock I kind of go
brain dead. Guy -- if you would like to comment, you can, please, come forward.
Okay. Were you sworn in?
Coyle: Yes, I was.
De Weerd: Okay. Just state your name and address.
Coyle: My name is Russ Coyle. I live at 1515 North Santa Rosa. So, I live just a
couple houses down from this. And a couple things I want to point out. First off is we
are not here to protest the integrity or the type of daycare that Donna may run. We are
sure that she probably runs a fine daycare. But we propose that we should not allow
these businesses into our neighborhood. We are very concerned about the safety of
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October 5, 2004
Page 50 of 84
children. We are concerned about the traffic flow and we are concerned about the
value and the degradation of our property value. If I could digress slightly, I previously
lived in a neighborhood -- you have heard the adage that no one wants to live next to a
textile mill, as long as it's in someone else's neighborhood, that's fine. I have lived in
neighborhoods before where daycares would come in and that may look fine, but the
houses next to them has to lower their value of sale by ten, twenty thousand dollars and
that oftentimes i ntroduces a d ifferent g roup of i ndividuals w ho, a s t hey come i n t hey
don't take care of that house, the house next to them degrades, and pretty soon your
neighborhood has lost essential value. I would like to ask the Council for clarification on
whether or not it is required by all the developers to provide covenants for their -- for
development for neighborhoods. Is that true?
Rountree: That's correct
De Weerd: No, it's not a requirement. They are asked to -- I guess, Anna, we just
recently looked into that. What is the language?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the application form for the
preliminary plat states that if they are -- if they are having CC&Rs, we do ask for a copy
of those, so that we can check maintenance agreements. We don't often see it --
mostly we see the CC&Rs because there are some common maintenance areas that
need -- we need to see how they are being maintained, but that could be done through
another mechanism. But it is not strictly a requirement.
De Weerd: So, the portion we look at in the CC&Rs is just for your common areas and
maintenance issues. We do not enforce CC&Rs. Those are neighbor to neighbor.
Coyle: Okay. That was the question is if they were required by the city, whether or not
those would be legally binding covenants.
De Weerd: No.
Coyle: So, could we bring up the photos that you showed -
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry.
Nary: Just so you are clear, they are legally binding, but they are binding between the
homeowners and the subdivision, not the city and homeowners.
De Weerd: Right.
Canning: Okay. Thank you. The first photos that you showed with the cars on the
street. That came with the packet. Madam Mayor, if you would like me to do that, it's
going to take me awhile. I put them away already.
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October 5. 2004
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De Weerd: Okay.
Coyle: So, let me say --
De Weerd: We do remember seeing them and when she shows them up here, it's --
Coyle: So, I would like to just say to the Council that those are not misleading. I have
taken account -- I leave about 8:00 o'clock in the morning, I return home at 4:30, 5:30
o'clock at night. During the weekdays this week and towards the tail end of last week, I
have seen at the most eight cars there and never fewer than five cars. At other times I
have seen as many as 18 cars there, but I will acknowledge that that is not the result of
Donna and that household. But what we have here is a real situation with way too
many cars on the street and it is very true that you cannot see around that corner and
we are very concerned about little children slipping out and running into that street. We
have teenagers on that road that drive extremely too fast and we acknowledge we have
a problem and we are trying to correct that problem. We wish her -- we have no
animosity towards her, we wish her well. If she wants to go out into a commercial
district, open up a home, we welcome that opportunity. I see my time is about up. We
had too much time to take too many notes, I believe. There are multiple bus stops. If
you see right around that corner -- just around the corner there is a child bus stop there.
There is one on the other entrance coming off of Cherry Lane. So, we have -- we have
kids that are being picked up there and those kids come home. She mentioned her
hours between 9:00 and 3:30. When do the kids come home from school? At 3:30.
That's when my kids get home from school. So, the time that those mothers are coming
in to pick up those kids, the same time that they are going to be coming in and we are
concerned about this and we ask the Council that we try to tum the table on these retail
businesses moving into neighborhoods, I moved into a cul-de-sac to avoid this very
problem. I have been there for 12 years and I see this as a growing trend and I think it's
going to be costly to the homeowners that have been there for some time. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions, Council? Okay. Guy Kerr.
Kerr: I did not swear in, because I didn't think I had any comments.
De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Kerr: Yes, it is.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Kerr: My name is Guy Kerr and I live at 1892 West Sunnyslope Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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October 5, 2004
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Kerr: And my comment is that I am semi retired, I do not work all the time, and I live
only three doors away from the location, but I happen to live on the corner where the
stop sign is for most of the people who head this way. So, I live in this lot right here and
there is a stop sign right on this corner and most of the people who enter this
subdivision go this direction, they don't stop at this stop sign. Then, there is a stop sign
at my neighbors right here and most of the people who cross this road, they don't stop
at this stop sign and a lot of people believe that maybe they are not in a hurry in the
mornings or they are not in a hurry in the afternoons and we all know that most people
are in a hurry. So, I spend enough time -- my driveway faces this -- where this T is right
here, but my house faces this way. I have spent enough time in the driveway, even my
yard, to know that these people don't stop at the stop signs; they don't pay attention to
the speed limit. There is a dip on both sides of this street right here and people actually
try to cut around here to avoid the stop signs and, then, they fly through here and
bounce through those dips while these people are trying to cross those stop sign areas
and the other thing I want you to know is I have a handicapped daughter and I have
lived in the location there for a little over eleven years and I didn't modify my home to
get her in and out of my house, I just built it so that it would work without ramps and
without extra doors in my garage and I also want you to know that just trying to back out
of my driveway with the traffic at 8:00, 7:45, 8:15 in this area right here is virtually
impossible and so I would like you to consider some of the things that the people here
have about the traffic, because it really is important to us. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Carol Gentry signed up against. Okay. Signed up against.
And Ralph Gentry as well. Thank you.
Rountree: I have no idea.
Patterson. Does it start with an R?
De Weerd: Yeah.
Rountree: Maybe.
De Weerd: A lot of loops. Okay.
Patterson: I have been swom in. My name is Roger Patterson; I live at 1502 North
Santa Rosa Place and let me apologize before I start, in case I fall asleep. I'm usually
in bed by now. Okay? So, last night I get home and my wife comes home and I'm
talking to her and I said tomorrow night I'd like you to be home for dinner, because I
have to go to a city council meeting. Usually we don't eat dinner together, because she
has her own business, see? So, she says, okay, she says, well, why, and I says, well, I
got to go to the city council meeting. She said what for and I said, well, I got to talk
about the daycare down the street and the opposition of it and she says, well, you know
what, she says, I think I'd rather have a daycare than have that guy out there smoking
pot in his boxer shorts. I said, well, that's a good point. I can't argue with that. So, I
said, well -- I said what about the traffic? I said how about the girls playing at the end of
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October 5, 2004
Page 53 of 54
the cul-de-sac, you know, we get a few cars come by there, you know, doesn't that
bother you any? And she says, well, she says, no, she said, because we get a lot of
traffic anyway. There is cars all over that street all the time. She said that's not a big
factor. So, I said, well, let me see, I got to come up with something else. So, I said,
well, hey, how about that rent you're paying for your business, I said why don't you just
move your business to our garage and you can just start shipping your drugs out of our
garage. Well, she said, I -- I don't think our garage is big enough. She said I need a
little bit more space than that. So, I kept thinking, I said how the heck can I persuade
her to come onto my team? So, I said -- I said, hey, look at these CC&Rs right here, I
said it says right here in these CC&Rs that this is a residential area and you're not
supposed to have a business in here. You can't operate a business in here. I said how
about that? She goes wow. I said, you know, if we let that business in here, we are
going to set a precedence, people are going to start opening businesses everywhere
down this street. I said, then, this residential nightmare is going to be a commercial
nightmare. So, you know, she said you're right. I think that's about the second
argument I ever won my wife. So I thought, you know, I better come to the city council
meeting and I better talk about it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Molly Bedney for. I believe you were sworn in
Bedney: Yes.
De Weerd: Please state your name and address.
Bedney: Molly Bedney. 1795 West Sonoma Drive. Madam Mayor and City Council
Members, I have known Donna for a little over a year and I have on many occasions --
there have been, first of all, cars parked on my street for long periods of time.
Secondly, I'm a little unsure of what's been presented at this point. I came here tonight
with the intent on supporting Donna, because she remodeled her garage, I felt that was
the issue. I've heard nothing but traffic issues. Well, maybe a little bit of the other from
Donna. So, I'm concerned that -- yes, I'm concerned about the traffic, because I live in
the neighborhood, I see more traffic and high speeds -- I should say over 25 after the
high school gets out than I do during the day. I do not work out of my -- out of the
home, I work at home most of the time, and I do appreciate the concerns of the other
people on the cul-de-sac regarding this, that they a re -- that they a re d ealing with a
traffic issue, but I believe that's a separate issue from what Donna is bringing to you
tonight. So, I would just ask that -- that, you know, the point of her remodel could be
focused to that and not necessarily the traffic. I understand that has to be considered in
a business like this, but she's just starting and so I'm here to support that. To my
knowledge and from what I have seen, I went over, I looked at her facility, I -- I, myself,
have schooled before; you do have to do some modifications when you have children in
your home as a starting point. So, I guess that's pretty much all I need to say. I would
like to at least add -- which I -- I can't add this with a lot of knowledge, but there is an
adult handicapped foster care home at the opposite end of our subdivision. I believe it's
on Sonoma, but I really have little knowledge that I'm bringing tonight. So, I just ask that
you be fair and consider Donna is starting out. Thank you very much.
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October 5, 2004
Page 54 of 84
De Weerd: Thank you. Diane Kerr signed up against.
D.Kerr: I wasn't sworn in.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
D.Kerr: Yes, I will.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
D.Kerr: My name is Diane Kerr and I live at 1892 West Sunnyslope Drive. And -- okay.
Okay. I live right here. The daycare is right here. There is a high school that's right
here. And I knew that when I moved into the subdivision. In --
Bird: The high school can't be right there.
De Weerd: No. Down lower.
D.Kerr: Okay. But it impacts this traffic coming down Linder is what my point is going
to be. Okay. In the morning I cannot get out on Linder Road to leave. I have to go
down this path -- it's not easy to hold down here. I have to go down this path out this
way. She's talking about leaving traffic right there. In the morning there is a lot of traffic
that comes out that other access to cut through to get to the high school in the morning,
so there is high speed in the morning already from the high school trying to gain access
to Linder Road to get to the high school. Yeah. Which would be down here, actually.
There is also a bus stop right here and I have the same hours as a daycare, because I
work at a school, and so I see in the morning when I leave that this is quite -- the only
way I can get out is out through Cherry Lane, because it is so heavily traffic'd and
speeding, because of that -- people trying to gain access to that area. My other point
would be that the daycare right now -- she was talking about how she came in and she
wanted to have a business in her home, but, really, wasn't aware that you couldn't do
what you wanted to do in your house. Well, they changed the front of their house and it
does not look like the rest of the houses. None of them look exactly alike; they are not
all cookie cutter houses. But also her house looks like a business. She has signs of
business on her vehicles, which are parked on the outside, because you can't park
inside her garage. There is signs that she has put in the common areas, have been
asked not to put them in the common areas, advertising an open house, metal signs --
she continues to do that. Then there is also flyers that are put on your house
advertising her daycare. There is also another business that's right in -- and I also have
a mailed flyer from this business, which is a nail salon, which is right in this cul-de-sac
right here, within a few doors down, right in that area of this business. So, that is an
additional traffic hazard. I don't know if, you know, people rushing around in the
morning to get their kids to preschool or late for their nail salon is going to affect that
already heavy traffic problem within the subdivision. She was also talking about how in
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the summertime she had her RV parked in the front. That's also against -- I think not
only our covenants, but city code and you're not supposed to put it in the front there, but
that kind of stuff -- there is just way too much -- there is no -- the only place that other
people are going to have to park is -- and there is not really any -- much room in that --
in that cul-de-sac as it is. I don't know where they are going to park.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Virginia Boren. Thank you. Please state your name
and address.
Boren: Virginia Boren. 321 East Cassidy Road. And I visit Donna very often and we
have our children that are about the same age. We have three high school students
that go to that high school and I understand where the previous lady was saying that
there is a lot of traffic, because I drive my daughter and my niece to school, but that's at
7:00 o'clock in the morning. By, then, school -- Donna would start her preschool.
Again, I would clarify, it's not a daycare, it is a preschool and she wouldn't start that until
later in the afternoon. And the only thing I have to object right now would be that the
homeowners association stated that they tried to contact her without any prevail when
they were -- when we were doing the modification to the garage. The modification took
close to two months and we weren't -- we meaning my husband was there -- we helped
them, you know, put everything together and it wasn't private, it wasn't something that
we were trying to hide or do secretly. Everybody was aware of it. If they -- I feel if they
wanted to contact her in two months -- it was plenty of time and we were there a lot of
the times and if it were told to her that this could not have been done, we certainly
wouldn't have wasted the resources or the money putting all that hard work into doing
what we did for her. We would have definitely turned and tried to find something else,
but nobody spoke up until after the work was done. And that's all I have to say.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Boren: I just feel it's not -- you know, it's not right. If they felt it was -- it wasn't
something that t hey w anted or something that should be being done, then, it should
have been said at that time, because she did, she was -- since April we were trying to
take the right channels here and it just seemed like it was a go ahead and, then, after all
the work was done when everybody started slamming everything, saying, hey, that's not
right. So, I think she should be given a chance. Okay? Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Nary, this is -- this is regarding a variance for use of the
garage; is that correct? So, it's not an issue of the accessory use permit.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, according to the city code, the
accessory use permit -- there is only 15 days in which to object to the accessory use
permit. That time period past and no one objected. So, the zoning administrator can
issue it. The issue -- the problem here is the statute is discretionary -- or the ordinance
is discretionary. Mrs. Canning's staff, as they reviewed that and, then, had looked at the
site, because, again, when they went over to inspect it, it appeared that the property
was going to be used -- the garage was going to be used for the -- for the preschool
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October 5, 2004
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facility. That's where the rub is with the ordinance. But, you're right; it is only a variance
that's being requested to use the garage -- to not have a two -car garage. It is required
under Meridian city ordinance, a different ordinance, 11-10-6, requires that every house
have a two car garage that is able to have two cars park in it. The city doesn't require
you park in it and the city doesn't require that you can't park on the street, those are left
to the homeowners associations to deal with. But we only require that. So, what we
have here is a situation where Mrs. Canning's staff, in reviewing this accessory use
permit for final, because no objections were submitted, were concerned that a different
ordinance was being violated, that's why we are here for the variance. If the Council
were to deny the variance, it doesn't mean that she can't operate this accessory use, it
means that she can't operate it in the garage.
De Weerd: Okay. I thought I had better get clarification on that. Okay.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I, actually, did issue a denial letter,
Mr. Nary, regarding this application, because she could not meet the standard and that
denial was not appealed. She went forward with the variance process instead. So, I'm
unclear as to the standing of the AUP at this point also.
Nary: The denial letter was issued, but the staff recommendation was to seek the
variance; right? And the denial was based upon the fact that the garage was going to
be used for the accessory use and that was the only reason it wasn't issued at the time;
right?
Canning: Correct.
Nary: The staff report --
Canning: Correct. The staff didn't recommend a variance, but that was the only avenue
left, other than appealing.
Nary: Okay.
Canning: And the appeal of the decision, as we discussed with Mrs. Bohm, would have
had to have been that staff erred in some part and she decided to go with the variance
request instead.
Nary: So, the time period has past, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so if -- if
Mrs. Canning's already issued the denial — if that, then, there wouldn't be any accessory
use but for this variance, she'd still have to go -- even with this variance she'd have to
go back through the accessory use process again, because that's still been denied. All
the Council would be granting if they — if they granted this variance, was for her to have,
essentially, an enclosed garage for a living space and that's all she would be able to do
with it. She'd still have to go back through the accessory use process again to be able
to operate this preschool facility in her home.
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October 5, 2004
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De Weerd: And did the applicant understand the ramifications of not appealing your --
your letter and -- I mean I don't understand why she would come forward with a
variance if she understood that she would still have to go back to the conditional use --
or the accessory use permit. I don't think it sounds like it was very clear.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't think we anticipated that far in
the future. I will agree to that. I did discuss the possibility of writing a letter that was
contingent upon not using the garage. That was not an option at the time, so the denial
letter was sent out. I didn't plan that far in advance, I'm sorry, Mayor. I missed that
connection. So, it was not discussed and if we had thought about it, we would have
certainly had her file both applications to keep that opportunity open.
De Weerd: So, Mr. Attorney, what is the reason for this hearing? To discuss if she
cannot park in her garage? I mean because she won't have an accessory use permit at
this point, then.
Nary: Madam Mayor, most people wouldn't come to the Council to ask if they can
enclose their garage and make it into a living space. They would either get a building
permit -- probably many would not, but you wouldn't be here, normally, except for this
accessory permit and, I'm sorry, I misunderstood that they had issued a denial, because
I agree with you, Madam Mayor, it certainly would have made more sense for Mrs.
Bohm to have appealed that decision, as well as sought a variance at the same time.
Because right now all that Council can do is either affirm or deny this request for a
variance. We do have a city code that is very specific on garages. We have a city code
that is very specific on the findings that are necessary to grant a variance. And the staff
recommendation is those findings can't be made, there isn't adequate evidence to show
that. That's all the Council can do is approve or deny that variance. It has nothing to do
with the accessory use.
De Weerd: Well, I think this is very unfortunate that she is not -- it's not been clear that
this could have been a chance to appeal the denial as well. And I don't know if there is
anyway to remedy that.
Rountree: Reapply
De Weerd: Well, but that doesn't seem right
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: How come we -- how come we were -- somewhere in the packet wasn't shown
where they have had a letter that was sent denying it? That's part of this variance
application I would think.
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Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Nary also, all the public notices
have included to allow a childcare slash preschool for five or fewer children to be
operated in the required garage area. So, certainly the notice, as you can see from all
the people that it has addressed the issue of the daycare, so they have been informed
of that.
Nary: I guess, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm the new person on this side
of the bench, but that may have provided notice to the public as to what we are talking
about, but all you have before you is whether or not to grant a variance and you don't
have anything else. As I said, if you grant the variance, that doesn't mean she can
operate this d aycare, b ecause that p ermit was denied and she d idn't a ppeal it. S o,
she'd still have to go back through the accessory use process to be able to actually
operate this -- sorry, not daycare, but preschool facility. She still would need to have
that, because that's already been denied. The process is completed and all you have is
this variance before you.
De Weerd: I guess my question is did she know that she could appeal, in addition to
the variance?
Nary: I don't have the letter -- I don't have a copy of the letter
Canning: Yes, the letter does state that there is an appeal period and it lists the exact
date of the appeal.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, we will ask you in a little bit. Okay.
Nary: And the only other issue, Madam Mayor -- and, again, I don't know the answer to
this, I'm not trying to put Mrs. Canning on the spot -- from the staff report it indicates that
the discussion was somehow with Mrs. Bohm that her avenue to get remedy here was
to get a variance.
Canning: We certainly thought that was the case at the time we recommended her to
get the variance and at that time we had no knowledge of any neighborhood opposition.
Nary: Right. And so because of that -- I mean I don't know whether or not part of the
reason, as I think you have already stated, Madam Mayor, as to why an appeal wasn't
sought was because the belief Mrs. Bohm had from that conversation was what she
needed to do was seek a variance. If that was granted she, then, would be okay to
proceed with her business. And that may be part of the reason. I don't know.
Canning: That's -- I'm sorry, Madam Mayor. That was it exactly. I guess we just didn't
think it through exactly right and I apologize for that. But we did think that the variance
was the remedy for the situation.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, we still have a number of people signed up here and I'm sorry I
muddied the water with my question.
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October 5, 2004
Page 59 of 84
Rountree: No. I think that's important.
De Weerd: We will continue the Public Hearing with Cheryl Ferneau. Okay. Thank
you. Signed up for. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Ferneau: Cheryl Ferneau. 440 South Malachite in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you. Were you sworn in?
Ferneau: Yes, I was.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Ferneau: I have known Donna for several years and my children were at her preschool
and I know what kind of a person and what kind of a business she runs and how she
handles everything, with the access of traffic, interaction with the parents being there
around the community, making sure everybody is aware of what's going on and so that
it's not a problem. In my belief, Donna does this very well. I feel that in her whole
process of trying to get this going, she has been misled several times. She has gone
about the proper channels and I feel it would be very unfortunate to make her pay for
somebody else's mistakes. She has done whatever she has been told is the proper
way to do it and the time and money she has put into it and the hopes and dreams that
she's had to get this going will be shattered. The traffic problem -- in my subdivision
there is also a preschool. There is also an elementary school that is -- you go down my
road to get to it for a passageway for the children to walk to and, honestly, there is no
traffic problem with the preschool dropping off and picking up. I have been on Donna's
street several times and there is a great deal of cars parked on the road, which has
been mentioned, but it's not from the her side, it's from another group meeting of some
sort. I also wanted to reiterate that Donna has not had the preschool going during the
summer. She was going to try, but with everything she was running into problems
getting things approved and she was waiting for her license to actually come through,
which was h elped up by the Planning a nd Zoning Committee. So, s he had n of had
anything running, so has not contributed to any traffic. I guess that's it.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Now, I just would remind everyone, this is about the
garage, okay? Okay. Steve Svoboda.
Svoboda: And I was sworn in.
De Weerd: Okay. Just state your name and address.
Svoboda: So, my name is Steve Svoboda and I live at 1480 North Santa Rosa.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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Svoboda: So, using the little laser here, I live about right there. And I was hesitant to
come down here for a couple of reasons. And now there is another reason in that I --
you know, I could have watched the debate and everything else, but -- so I could have
come down here at 10:00 and still said my piece. But, anyway, one of the reasons that I
was hesitant to come down was because I really don't want to be at odds with any of my
neighbors, you know. I believe in being reasonable, being flexible and so forth. I also
believe that there are covenants and restrictions that one has to abide by. So, it's really
a two-way street about being neighborly, whichever side of a particular issue you
happen to be on. And also the other reason is because we actually have a contract on
our home, we were one of the original homeowners on Santa Rosa, we have been there
over eleven years, and although we may be out on the street, because we haven't
figured out exactly where we are moving to yet, but we -- we have finally sold the house.
However, the -- we had a full price offer on our house fairly quickly after we put it on the
market and the -- or, actually, we didn't get it in writing yet, but the realtors spoke and
the contract was written up and the people decided that they wanted to pray about it
over night and the next morning their realtor called our realtor and said that they
decided to go with their second choice and withdrew the offer because of the cars and
traffic on the street. So, even though Donna and the Bohrns and, then, the daycare and
all that stuff -- and I'm not totally aware of how much traffic and cars that may have
already added or will add in the future, there is no denying that street, in and of itself,
has a huge amount of cars parked on it and traffic along -- and it's a cul-de-sac. And for
people to come in that cul-de-sac, then, the natural way to do that, since Donna lives on
the opposite side of the street, you know, as you're coming in the street she would live
on the left side, would be to go all the way down to the end of the cul-de-sac, turn
around, come back and, then, pull up in front of that house, because there doesn't
appear that there would be any parking in the driveway, because there is no garage.
Okay? So, the -- in my mind a couple of the big issues are, one, you know, do the
covenants and the ordinances apparently -- apparently there is an ordinance where you
need a two car garage that apparently is for use for your c ars, okay, and, then, the
covenants themselves. So, the ordinance and the covenants, do they have any -- any
bearing on this or -- and does one have to abide by it. And when you sign a contract on
a house, I believe, if I'm not mistaken, when you close, that you sign that you are aware
of the covenants -- whether you read them or not, that's -- you know, that's up to you
individually, but if you come in afterwards and either didn't read them or feel like, well,
you know, I don't think my little thing is going to be that much of a deal and, then, try to
proceed, it's sort of after the fact, you know. And so I do think these issues of traffic and
safety, of property values, I think my case has some bearing on property values, at least
on salability, if not value in and of itself, I think these all need to be taken into account
and, again, like it has been said before, we -- I barely met Donna, she seems like a very
nice person, you know, I have no reason to think she wouldn't do a great job, and I wish
her the best, but I feel like it -- you know, you need to work on both sides to be in the
neighborhood. And one last point if I could and that is that I wasn't aware -- now maybe
an attempt was made, but I wasn't aware -- I was not aware of any -- anything of going
around to the neighbors -- certainly didn't meet any neighbors on the street -- it sounded
-- a couple of comments were made about --
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October 5, 2004
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De Weerd: Your time is up.
Svoboda: Okay. They should -- we should go to them or we should be aware of things
ahead of time, but I think it would have been neighborly to come to us and ask us what
we thought. So, thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you. Dee Carter signed up against.
Carter: Yeah. I have no further comments.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mason Carter against. Okay. Darrell Shuenberg. Thank you.
Cindy Dury is for. Okay.
Dury: Thank you. I'm nursing a broken leg. I was not sworn in.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Dury: It sure is.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Dury: My name is Cindy Dury, I live at 1422 West Santa Rosa Place.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Dury: Since we are here for one purpose and that's to decide whether or not she can
use the facility as a preschool in our garage --
Rountree: No.
Dury: I think that's the point that we need to stick with. The neighbors had the
opportunity to come and speak and no one said a thing. They watched her garage, they
watched there be construction all summer long and didn't say a word about it and now
when she's put the money, the time, and everything, then, everybody has decided now
this is going to cause a traffic problem and everything else. There are three houses on
our s treet r ight n ow t hat teenagers I ive i n t heir g arage a nd their garage i s n of b eing
used for cars. There are two houses on our street right now that have been remodeled
strictly for that purpose. So, to blame this on traffic -- the house with the eleven
children, quite extensive, and I don't -- I don't think that it's fair for people to be able to
come and sling when they had the opportunity to do that -- the time and the money has
been put in, stick with the issues, stick with the problem. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. And I have one last person signed up here is Chris Svoboda.
Okay. Opposed. Is there any other testimony to be provided to tonight? You have
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October 5, 2004
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already testified, sir. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Crandall: Yes, it is.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Crandall: My name is David Crandall, 1864 East Lochmeadow Street in Meridian.
Madam Mayor and Council, I'm kind of in the middle of all this, because I work for AMI,
I'm the neighborhood manager; I'm hired by the association to manage the affairs of the
association. Contrary to what some things that have been said, I did start getting the
calls from the neighborhood, I did start getting calls from people who live on the street
asking me to take action on this. I did write a letter to Donna when I first became aware
through contacting the neighborhood that she wasn't allowed to confine the garage, I
sent her a letter stating that she had to go through the architectural process. I did not
hear a reply from her. Some weeks went by, I had given her time to respond, I, then,
sent her a second letter, a little bit stronger wording, with a copy of the forms saying that
she had to submit the form. At that time she did submit the form and the impression
was that this was going to be a temporary thing until she could find a place out of the
neighborhood. We, then, laid down some conditions in talking with the board that you
have heard tonight, that if she did take the service out of the community, that she had to
restore the garage b ack t o its original condition. We put some conditions about the
parking of the cars and the whole time there was an assumption that it was just the one
car bay, that she wasn't going to take the other two out, that she would continue to park
her cars in the garage and the home would still look like a home, at least on a
temporary basis we would have the one door, which I understand from Donna was put
in because of the fire ordinance, they had to have an emergency exit. The reason I
think a lot of homeowners are here tonight -- and I'm certainly here tonight is because
Donna, then, changed what we understood the original agreement to be, she now wants
to take the whole garage out of service and she wants all three car bays out of service
and that's why the association directed me, through the board of directors, to write to
Donna to tell her we were objecting to it and a lot of the letters that you have in your
packet were signed by me notifying h er t hat the association's position, that we were
objecting to all three bays taken out of service, because the implication, then, is going to
be that the cars are going to be regularly parked either on the street or the driveway and
that was a safety issue, it's an unsightly issue, and over time, as you have heard tonight
also, it does encroach on the neighborhood and values of properties and resale values
of property. We do not oppose her as to her intent to operate the business, the quality
of care that she can provide to the students or anything about that, that's not what we
are protesting. We are saying that there are covenants, the covenants clearly state that
you must have at least a two car garage, with the assumption that you're going to park
your vehicles in that garage, and when she changed from what the letters were
originally written, saying that she now wants to take all three cars out of -- three car
bays out of service, that's why you're seeing so much objection tonight. And we would
encourage her to do the business, but we also encourage her to develop it quickly to
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 03 of 84
move it to an off-site location and restore her home to a home and not a mixed purpose.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there any further testimony? Okay. Donna. You
have five minutes for rebuttal.
Bohm: To start things, he assumed that we would park in the garage. Our covenants
don't say that we have to do that and I checked into other covenants and they
specifically spell out if you are supposed to park in your garage or not, so I don't know
where he thought that about -- and that letter that he sent strictly said there will be no
parking to you guys, but I never heard that. I never heard that. It was only regularly
parking on the street was in the first letter. Some of the things I'd like to point out is that
I believe Kevin Snow's wife does daycare unofficially.
De Weerd: If we can keep this to you using your garage.
Bohm: Okay. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I got off track, I guess.
De Weerd: Well -- and I know that's easy to do.
Bohm: I'm just very bothered by this, because I have felt like I have got the run around.
I tried to do this legal, I've tried to do everything, and it seems like everybody tells me a
different story. The first letter says -- it's dated July 14th, this is the letter you asked me
about from the city Planning and Zoning. I'm sorry. It says that I'm not able to do my
preschool in my home, because I don't have the use of the garage. It does not state in
here what my resources are, so when I got this letter I was devastated. I called and
asked what I could do. Sonya told me I had to put in for a.conditional use to temporarily
use of my garage and that would be another 350 dollars and I didn't have it. Then, I
asked to talk to her supervisor and Anna told me that I should put in a variance and she
told me that if I didn't want to put in the variance, because it was .310 dollars, that I could
appeal and that that was in my letter and I told her that it was not in my letter. And if I
could submit this, I would really like this back, because I didn't make a copy of this
tonight.
De Weerd: Our clerk can take a copy of it.
Canning: Madam Mayor, we have a copy in the record.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: Both letters are in there. I sent another letter a week later.
Bohm: Do you guys all have copies -- the Council? Because this first letter does not
say that I could appeal and that I had 15 days and so when I talked to Anna, she issued
me another one on July 27th.
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October 5, 2004
Page 84 of 84
Bird: Madam Mayor, I'd like a copy of that.
De Weerd: Will, if we could get a copy.
Bohm: -- saying that I had 15 days to appeal, it would be 150 dollars, and I called her
and she told me that we should get together and meet and so we did, like I told you,
with all the group headings and stuff, the building inspector and the enforcement officer,
because she was telling me other things that if I wanted to appeal it, then, I would have
to the remove the carpet, remove the linoleum, stuff like that, that I didn't think, even if I
had to put back and make it a working garage, I would probably just leave the carpet,
because it would make it warmer, because my daughter has allergies and in our garage
down in Nevada we had carpet, because sweeping causes dust, which goes into
everything, even into your house and we just vacuumed, instead of sweeping. So, I
didn't feel like should have to take out my carpet and the building inspector said, no, if
she wants carpet in the garage she can have carpet in the garage. So, I feel like I was -
- I have just been getting the run around from everybody. Just like Dave Crandall said,
you know, he -- we worked on it with our garage door open, because it was
summertime, it was hot, I was out there -- people could have came and asked me, you
know, what we were doing and I apologize for not letting -- talking to the other people
that were notified about this issue, because the first one it was just my adjacent
neighbors that I had to talk to and I did do that, but, then, we went into you have to have
a variance -- I guess I didn't even think in the back of my mind that I need to talk to
everybody else, I just figured it probably won't bother them, I mean you drive by they are
not going to see anything different, other than the door that's out there and the window.
But on two cars garages that people that don't have a third car garage, because they
bought the house with just a two, it doesn't look any much different than that. I wanted
to reiterate that my hours of operation are only hours of operation; it doesn't mean the
kids are there from 9:00 to 3:30. A lot of people said that, you know, it would be during
school and stuff and it's not, it would not be during, it would start after all the school
started. The last bus comes through our subdivision there about 8:30 in the morning.
The soonest I would ever open class would be at 9:00.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bohm: I would just ask the committee to consider granting me this, even if its on a
temporary basis. And I do think that Anna put this up in front of everybody to see. This
is the house on Linder, 370 Linder, for the question of ten and eleven.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Council, do you have any questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council?
De Weerd: Yes.
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October 5, 2004
Page 65 of 84
Canning: Regarding the first letter, when I found out that Sonya had sent a letter
without the appeal information, I did send a new letter and set the appeal date based on
the new letter. I did want to make sure that she was aware of that information. We did
go forward thinking that the variance was the solution to this problem. I do
acknowledge that. We did have a meeting with Daunt Whitman, with Chris from White
Peterson, whose last name escapes me at the moment, and with Mrs. Bohm, her
husband, Kristy Vigil and myself and Joe Venamin to discuss this issue, because there
has been a huge amount of miscommunication all throughout the process. While the --
before the AUP had been approved Joe Venamin did visit the site, it's in his logs, and
he did inform Mrs. Bohm that -- that she was not allowed to convert the garage. Mrs.
Bohm has no recollection of that conversation. We talked with Daunt in his presence,
because we wanted to make sure that we all understood the requirements for a building
permit. There was no building permit obtained to do this work. It did require a building
permit. So, there are some conditions of approval that should the Council choose to
approve this application tonight, that a building permit does need to be obtained to
convert property from -- or convert the area from a garage use to residential use.
Because I just wanted to clarify some of the staff concerns regarding the application
with regard to processing. It was a difficult application to process, as you can see. It's
not had a smooth journey.
De Weerd: Well, usually, as we come up with things that we haven't faced before, we
try and find a logical route of process and sometime it just doesn't work out the way we
think it will, so we apologize for that. Council, do you have any questions or additional
information you need at this point?
Rountree: I have none. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Hearing no further discussion, I would move that we close the Public Hearing
on Item No. 13.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close Item 13, the Public Hearing.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, if I might just kind of summarize what I'm thinking about this -
- excuse me. He can hear me. Just a little bit. This hearing is not about the use of -- or
the -- yeah, the use in this neighborhood of a preschool, it's not about traffic, it's not
about the character of the applicant, it's not about any of those things, it's about whether
or not there is sufficient evidence for the city to make a finding that it can vary a city
ordinance to allow a home to not follow the required city ordinance, which is to have a
garage that would accommodate two cars. We have heard a lot of testimony about a lot
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
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of things tonight, but very little — I'm not sure any that relates to that particular topic. I
don't find that there is any evidence that supports a finding for the variance, but I do
hope that Mrs. Bohm continues on with her endeavor and re -looks at an accessory use
permit, possibly with the modification of another portion of her home. Having said that, I
would move that we deny the request for variance for Item No. 13, Variance 04-006.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to deny Item 13. Is there any further
discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14: Public Hearing: MI 04-010 Request to a modify the hours of operation
approved previously under CUP 01-016 from 8 am to 10 pm Monday thru
Saturday and 9 am to 9 pm Sunday to 6 am to 10 pm seven days a week
for Cherry Crossing Subdivision by Robnett Construction, Inc. -
northwest corner of West Cherry Lane and North Linder Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 14 is a Public Hearing on MI 04-010.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Before you open the Public Hearing on Item No. 14, 1 need to recuse myself
from this hearing.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. I'll open this Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a modification -- a request to
modify the hours of operation for Cherry Crossing Subdivision. The property is located
at the corner of Cherry and --
De Weerd: I'm sorry, Anna. I guess Councilman Wardle did recuse himself for a
reason of personal benefit. If you're not going to state your reason, I'll make one up.
Personal conflict? Okay.
Bird: That's fine with me.
De Weerd: Does the Council -- sorry, Anna, I didn't mean to --
Canning: That's okay. I was still trying to figure out the cross streets. I think it's Cherry
and Linder. The property has undergone this discussion a number of times, actually. It
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October 5, 2004
Page 67 of 84
was explained quite well in the staff report and I think I'm just going to kind of briefly go
through it. There is -- as many uses have come on, we were familiar with the problem
that as a new use comes in usually we have to shift the lines a little bit and in this
particular case they have needed some adjustments in the hours of operation. The
applicant is clear that this request is to accommodate a fitness facility, small fitness
facility that wants to location at the north end of the property. The hours of operation
are being asked to be adjusted to open two hours earlier. The closing time would still
be the same. So, in a nutshell, that's the -- that's the request of the applicant.
De Weerd: Okay. Is that all?
Canning: I'll answer any specific questions you might have.
De Weerd: Well, I didn't know if you were done or not.
Canning: I'm not sure either at this point in the evening.
De Weerd: Would the applicant like to come forward? The representative. Have you
been sworn in?
Robnett: Yes, ma'am, I have.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Robnett: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I appreciate the opportunity to be
here tonight.
De Weerd: State your name and address.
Robnett: My name is Mike Robnett. I reside at 6655 West Oakhampton.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Robnett: Just a quick clarification before I get started. In the application I believe there
was a legal description -- it is not the entire parcel that we are looking to change, but
this section of it right here, which is --
De Weerd: Do you want to put that on the overhead?
Bird: It should be in the application.
Robnett: This is the portion of the property here that we have under contract right now
from Hawkins, so they might be a little upset if we change the hours on the rest of their
property. The hours of operation that are on there right now, as Anna had stated, were
basically established based on the user that was intended to go in there. Now that we
are working with Total Woman Fitness, they need the hours of operation starting at 6:00
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 68 of 84
a.m. and go to 10:00 p.m. and I personally walked the neighborhood behind it and on
two different occasions talked to all the neighbors back there and their big opposition on
hours was going late into the evenings, be it bars or restaurants that a re open until
10:00, midnight, 2:00 o'clock. The users that we are looking at fit nicely into a 6:00 to
10:00 schedule. We have been working with a dentist on one of the centerpieces and
he would, obviously, be an 8:00 or a 9:00 to 5:00 operation. And we have been talking
with a daycare -- not in a house, but on the western most lot. And that would probably
start 6:30, 7:00 o'clock in the morning as well. It's just tough to find a user anymore
that's going to be able to fit an 8:00 o'clock opening. We run our construction office out
in Eagle and, you know, our guys start showing up at 6:00 o'clock and so we are
requesting to change the hours to 6:00 in the morning to 10:00 p.m. seven days a week
on that part, which is -- that shows that it's three lots. It is still one lot right now. So, I'll
be glad to answer any questions you guys might have.
De Weerd: Council -- oh, no. Council, over there. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone who would like to testify in this
application? Okay. Council, do you need any further information?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close Item 14, MI 04-010.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 14. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve MI 04-010, modifying the hours to 6:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m.,
seven days a week for Cherry Crossing Subdivision by Robnett Construction,
Incorporated, and incorporate all staff and applicant comments.
Rountree: Second.
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October 5, 2004
Page 69 of 84
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 14. Is there any further
discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, excused.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE EXCUSED.
Item 15: Public Hearing: MI 04-009 Request to allow a one-time lot division to
separate an un -platted parcel into two parcels in an I -L zone for Joe
Pachner by Joe Pachner — 850 West Franklin Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 15 is Public Hearing MI 04-009. I'll open this Public
Hearing with staff comments. And Mr. Wardle has joined us again.
Wardle: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request to allow a one time
lot division, essentially, to be more specific, it's to allow a reduction in platting
requirements as we discussed in the past and it's for a currently unplatted parcel in an I-
L zone, so that request by city code does need come before you. We are on Franklin
Road and the nearest cross street is Meridian. Nearest major cross street on the north
side of the road. The applicant has not done a survey yet, but their general intent is to
just divide the property in half to make two squares there. As Ms. Allen was -- in her
communications with the applicant, he -- the applicant had not offered to make this
property subject to a future full subdivision and Ms. Allen did not know that that was an
item of let's say potential interest for the City Council. I know that when the Van Auker
split came up the other day that I got the impression from Council that you were more
comfortable with the split, because you knew that that would be the subject of a
preliminary plat application in the near future. So, it admittedly came at the last
moment, staff has provided an optional condition for you, but we were not able to talk to
the applicant before that went into the staff report. I believe just from the brief all of ten
second conversation I was able to squeeze in between a couple of items, that they are
generally opposed to that condition and I did want to apologize kind of in advance for
not raising it. These, again, are kind of new and Ms. Allen did not know that that was an
issue of concern for Council. So, if the Council wishes to make that a fifth condition, we
have provided that wording for you and we did also include a cross -access agreement,
because one of the properties will not have any frontage on Franklin Road. And with
that I will end staffs comments.
De Weerd: Okay. Questions for staff at this point?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Does the applicant have any comments? I'm sure he does. You
waited this long to talk. Were you sworn in?
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October 5, 2004
Page 70 of 84
Pachner: I haven't been sworn in, no.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Pachner: Yes, it is.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Pachner: Joe Pachner, 10371 Skycrest Drive. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council,
as stated, we don't object to the conditions of approval. We do question this additional
requirement for a subdivision application because the intended use is very compatible
all the adjacent landowners -- or land uses in that area, but if that is a requirement we
will go along with it.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, do you have any questions? Need clarification? No?
Thank you. Council, what would you like to do?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Hearing nobody wanting any more information or anything, I move we close the
Public Hearing MI 04-009.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close Item 15. All those in favor say aye.
All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Any discussion? If not, I'd entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve MI 04-009 and to incorporate staff and applicant comments.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 15. Is that without the
additional —
Bird: Yes.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 71 of 84
De Weerd: Okay. I just wanted that clarification.
Rountree: Is that with or without condition five?
Bird: I beg your pardon?
De Weerd: With or without condition five?
Bird: Without.
De Weerd: Okay.
Wardle: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Isn't that what -- isn't that what staff said, that they are --
Rountree: No. They suggested that we have condition five for the subdivision.
Bird: Okay. No. Without.
De Weerd: Without. Okay. Mr. Berg.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. We are getting late. Item 16 --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could, just a brief discussion. I
know Kevin is just -- doesn't mind waiting at all. Do you want us, on these future
applications, that it's necessary or should we just try and figure out where it may be
appropriate and whether or not — I just want some -- I want to make sure we get the
guidance.
De Weerd: I think they trust your judgment. Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I certainly was going to say that as well, but if you need
something a little clearer, I would say that on an application such as this -- there are
certainly applications which would need to -- I think that could utilize the re -subdivision
and the extra step and the extra fee and all of those things associated with it, but we will
leave that to your judgment to bring those forward.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
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Item 16: Public Hearing: MI 04-008 Request to modify the condition of the
approved Preliminary Plat regarding the 5 -foot wide asphalt pathway
within Nampa Meridian Irrigation District's easement for Castlebrook
Subdivision No. 3 by Liberty Development, Inc. — east of North Black
Cat Road and south of West Cherry Lane:
De Weerd: Okay. Clear as mud? Okay. Item 16 is a Public Hearing for MI 04-008. 1
will open this Public Hearing for all those wishing to testify with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we -- you had an opportunity to
discuss this issue, actually, a few weeks ago as related to Chesterfield, which is just
south of here, and the issue was the applicant offered as a -- offered an off-site
improvement a s part of his a pplication for C astlebrook Subdivision No. 2 preliminary
plat and that offer was to -- I think I have a -- yeah -- was to construct an off-site
pathway within the Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District easement and at that time we
assumed that it would just fall within other easements that we have or other
arrangements that -- other arrangements that we have with the Nampa -Meridian
Irrigation District. When Mr. Amar went to go plat the third final plat, this issue came up
-- I'll show you that. No, I can't show you the third final plat. Sorry. It covers a portion --
this portion of the pathway. And the Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District said, no, you
can't build a private pathway in that easement, it has to be a City of Meridian pathway
and -- he needs to take out the pathway. So, the question before Council tonight is
would you like to take over ownership of that pathway when it connects. We will have
one on the north side of the drain and on the south side of the drain. So, we will have
two pathway systems. There is a bridge connecting to the park at this location. So,
that's one option and that wouldn't require modification to the preliminary plat
necessarily. The other option would be to just relieve him of the requirement to
construct a pathway.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, questions?
Bird: I don't have any questions.
Canning: I'm sorry, Madam Mayor. In Chesterfield I believe what -- I might have to go
back and look up the exact wording and maybe Mr. Amar could help me, but I believe
the decision was that the homeowners association would take care of maintenance of
the property until such time as the City of Meridian was ready to assume those
responsibilities. And that's similar to language we have throughout the city. The intent
is always that the city will eventually take over maintenance of those pathways. Now
I'm done. Sorry.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, now do you have any questions? Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
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October 5, 2004
Page 73 of 84
Rountree: Not a question. Maybe a concern if we don't have any comments from parks
and recreation folks who would have to take this on within their budget and their
resources, I assume, at some point in time in the future.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I was a little dismayed that -- the no
comment stamp that came back from Mr. Strong.
De Weerd: Would the Council liaison like to comment?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I'm not going to comment on the specific actions of the
department head in regards to this, as far as it wasn't discussed with myself or -- in the
scope of his duties. We are going to hear from the applicant in just a minute; right?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Wardle: I'll hang onto my comments until then.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here?
Amar: In body.
De Weerd: Were you sworn in?
Amar: No.
De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
Amar: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Amar: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council Members. For the record, Kevin Amar. I'll
make this really brief.
De Weerd: And your address.
Amar: 114 East Idaho, Suite 230.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Amar: This is similar to the application in Chesterfield. In Chesterfield, as well as this
one, this is something that was not required by the city, it's not a portion of a PUD -- in
fact, Castlebrook is not a PUD, its a straight subdivision. It is something that we had
requested doing to improve that area that's always left open to weed -- weeds and
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 74 of 84
nuisances. At the time we went forward Nampa -Meridian had the policy of allowing a
pathway, public or private, on their -- in this case their land. This is not an easement,
they actually own the property. Since, then, their policy has changed and they require
that it be a public pathway. So, our request and our hope is not that it be removed, I still
want the pathway and I still want it landscaped, make it a public pathway and we will
maintain it until the city tells us they don't want us to maintain it anymore. So, as far as I
believe Councilmember Rountree's question of does the parks department have the
money in the budget, in my opinion if the parks department never wants to take it over,
they don't have to. That will be a determination by the parks department. Some day
they may want to, but if they don't have it in the budget, we are setting it up and it's
always been our intent to have the homeowners association maintain it anyway. So,
whether it's public or private, the homeowners association was still going to maintain it.
Rountree: So, I guess my question is Nampa -Meridian District's position is public in the
sense that it's open to anybody or public in the sense that it's owned and operated or
operated by a public entity?
Amar: In a conversation that we had -- and I believe, Anna, were you in that meeting
when we spoke with Bill Hinton? He didn't care who maintained it, he just wanted a
public pathway. The pathway maintenance and -- I believe in Chesterfield we talked
about that, it can be sent out to whatever private entity to maintain a pathway, but it's a
public pathway.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just to clarify, I believe the condition that Nampa -Meridian
Irrigation puts on is something that they are -- this is a new policy for them. If the city is
willing to take the ownership, certainly, the homeowners association could maintain it
and I think it's something that maybe -- I'm not sure if we have to look into it legally or if
this is -- the policy has begun because of some of the state statutes for open recreation
and those kinds of things as far as liability is concerned and I think it's at least worth
looking into for future developments to look at -- and especially this one, but if the city
needs -- is going to get pathways -- and we had a pathway comment earlier, we need to
do some creative things and this is one of the -- one of the things -- this developer
wants a pathway, thinks it's an amenity, I agree, and if we can make it available we
should and we should maybe look into doing this on future projects if the opportunity
arises with the development community and the irrigation district.
Amar: I could comment about the preliminary plat. I think all of mine should just be
approved, I don't need to -- I'll leave that for your discretion. But I also don't always get
what I want.
Rountree: With staff conditions.
Amar: I just want to throw it out there.
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October 5, 2004
Page 75 of 84
De Weerd: Well, thank you for that --
Amar: I have sat here that long, I expect my voice to be heard. Not listened to, but
heard.
De Weerd: Your time is up. Anything else?
Amar: Thank you.
Watson: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Watson: I know it's late and I hate to prolong the agony. I just want to be clear. His
plat has been hung up in my office for months because of this last lingering issue. What
will need to happen, in realty, is that the city will have to approve and sign on the dotted
line an addendum to the license agreement. That's what I'm reading anyway.
Amar: Can I address that?
De Weerd: You bet.
Amar: Condition number three of the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law state
the pathway shall be constructed prior to the issuance of the first certificate of
occupancy permit of any lots adjacent to the pathway, which, to me, indicates that the
final plat will be recorded and we can be building houses. The pathway just has to be
constructed prior to a certificate of occupancy. So, I don't think that would be hung up in
your office.
Watson: Madam Mayor, I don't have those conditions in front of me, but the
construction I don't think is the issue. I think we required that you have a license
agreement for the pathway prior to plat signature. But that license agreement couldn't
be obtained between your company and Nampa -Meridian and so I think we are headed
into a direction where you're willing to be the contact, so to speak, on the operation and
maintenance, but the city is the licensee. So, it puts the city in a position of being the
contact for the irrigation district and enforcing the maintenance with the homeowners
association, unless I'm misunderstanding this.
Amar: I don't see the license agreement; I'm just looking real quick, though. So, I could
be — I have been heard, just not listened to.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I also -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I don't have the conditions in
front of me, but it would appear to me that they are going to have to have some
amendment to the condition to make sure that it's clear as to where the future
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 76 of 84
ownership and maintenance of this pathway is going to be and that's the condition we
are amending tonight. Once that's done, then, I don't think there is a particular hold up.
There should be some acknowledgment from Nampa -Meridian at that juncture that that
meets their satisfaction to allow that pathway to be there.
Amar: I was wrong, it does say that the license agreement shall be signed prior to the
signature on the final plat. I guess I would --
Bird: That's the condition put on it.
Amar: Correct. I guess I would ask for some consideration. We have been sitting in
Brad's office for a long time. Or remove the condition of the pathway. I guess that -- I
want the pathway there, I would be happy to move forward, but modify a condition so I
can be out of Brad's office and get onto the Priester's office -- on the P riester, Don
Priester. I'm still more than willing to put in a pathway, I just want to move forward with
the project.
De Weerd: Okay. So, Mr. Nary, what do we need to do so this can all happen?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess what I -- what I guess it is is still
up to Mr. Amar. I mean what I thought your testimony was that you're willing to
construct it and the only condition that the City of Meridian has to agree to is that at
some point in the future, if the city really wants to, they can take over ownership. With
that acknowledgment of -- if the Council is willing to do that tonight, I guess I don't know
how much more delay there would be with Nampa -Meridian. I would assume it wouldn't
be much and, then, Mr. Watson could sign your plat.
Amar: Or the license agreement with Nampa -Meridian, which could take two to three
months, so --
Nary: And your only other option, then, is to -- to not agree to that condition and remove
the condition to build the pathway there, which you're saying you want anyway. You
were saying if you remove the condition, you will just build it anyway? And, then, the
Council doesn't -- and, Mr. Watson, I --
Amar: Accept it as public. I guess -- I guess I'm a little confused on the semantics. If
the city is saying that we have to -- they are not going to issue -- in the conditions they
won't issue any certificate of occupancies for those lots adjacent to the pathway prior to
the pathway being constructed, can we sign the final plat and move forward? That
holds a number of lots for me to sell those lots, which gives me guarantee or effort to
construct this pathway. It still moves the process forward, everybody gets what they
want, but the process isn't delayed on my behalf for another couple of months while I'm
waiting for semantics. I mean we are -- I guess that's what I'm asking. I'm not trying to
be difficultly, I'm not trying to be anything, I'm sure Anna's tired of me calling and asking
and I'm sure Brad is also. It's an issue we have been talking about for months.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 77 of 84
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess, Mr. Watson, I mean what --
what's your thoughts on what he's asking? He's simply saying if there is a condition
that, instead, deals -- allows you to sign the plat now and there is some other conditions
later that still assure the performance of having the pathway constructed, would that be
satisfactory.
Watson: Madam Mayor, yes, I guess it boils down to whether you want the pathway
there. If the answer is yes, then, that condition tied to the final plat signature could be
deleted and the construction of it could be tied to another milestone, such as COs on
those lots backing up to it.
Amar: Which it is tied to that already.
Watson: Right.
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: So, you can do that?
Watson: Yes.
De Weerd: Any further clarification, Council, on what's being requested?
Rountree: Probably for specificity, if Brad has the condition number and the
modification, I assume, would be to -- if we want to do this, to allow the signature of the
final plat, without agreement with Nampa -Meridian, all other conditions to be complied
with.
Watson: Madam Mayor and Councilmember Rountree, it's in 1.13 of the order of
conditional approval. Submit a signed license agreement with Nampa -Meridian
Irrigation District for the pathway and culvert foot -bridge prior to signature on the final
plat. That's the way it reads right now. You could probably delete that whole sentence.
Rountree: Okay. And still accomplish the path.
Watson: There will need to be a license agreement at some point in the future.
Rountree: Actually, you could leave the first part of that sentence and just strike the
signature of the final plat.
Watson: Sure.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Well--
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 78 of 84
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item No. 16.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we modify the condition of final plat approval for Castlebrook
Subdivision No. 1, Item MI 04-008, condition 1.13, to remove the reference to approval
of final plat conditioned upon the agreement with Nampa -Meridian.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: Just remove that last portion on the final plat.
Bird: Second.
Rountree: And that the city recognizes and works with the applicant and
Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District, so they understand that it will be a public pathway.
Bird: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any further discussion? The motion is to approve Item 16.
Hearing no further discussion, Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 17: Water, Sewer, & Trash Delinquencies:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 17. This is to inform you in writing, if you so choose, that you
have the right to a pre -termination hearing at 7:30 p.m., Tuesday, October 5th, 2004,
before the Mayor and City Council to appear in person to be judged on the facts and to
defend the claim made by this city that your water, sewer and trash bill is delinquent.
You may retain counsel. Your service will be discontinued on October 6, 2004, unless
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 79 of 84
payment is received in full. Is there anyone present who wishes to contest his or her
water, sewer and trash delinquency? They are hereby informed that they may appeal
and have the decision of the city reviewed by the Fourth Judicial District Court pursuant
to Idaho State Code. Even though they appeal, their water will be shut off. The amount
of the turn-off list is $30,489.86.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the turn-off list on October 6, 2004, in the amount of
$30,489.86.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve the delinquency turn off list. All
those -- oh, I'm sorry. Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 18: Ordinance No. 04-1104 : AZ 04-015 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 1+1- acre from RUT to R-8 zone for proposed Secret
Garden Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. — 2490 North Locust
Grove:
Item 19: Ordinance No. 04-1105 Sewer Use and Service Regulations
Revision:
Item 20: Ordinance No. 04-1106 Water Use and Service Regulations
Revision:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 18, 19, and 20 are ordinances numbered 04-1104, 04-1105,
and 04-1106. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read these ordinances by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 04-1104, an
Ordinance finding that the owners Oliver Cleaver and Debbie A. Cleaver of certain real
property generally located at the half mile between Fairview Avenue and Ustick Road
on the east side of Locust Grove Road, Meridian, Idaho, have made a written request
for rezone of the zoning classification for real property that lies within the boundaries of
the City of Meridian from R-8, Medium Density Residential, to L -O, Limited Office
District, as defined under the Meridian City Code Section 11-7-2G, replacing all
ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the
city engineer to add said rezoning designation to the official maps of the City of
Meridian, Idaho.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 80 of 84
Berg: Ordinance No. 04-1105, an ordinance repealing the existing sewer use and
service regulations, codified at Chapter 4 of Title 9 of Meridian City Code, reenacting a
new Chapter 4 of Title 9, of the Meridian City Code, to be known as the Sewer Use and
Sewer Regulations, including purpose, definitions, applications of chapter, authority and
establishment of superintendent of wastewater, establishing rules and regulations,
authority of city personnel, mandatory use of sewers, regulations of use of public
sewers, prohibition of discharge of objectionable waste without permission, building
sewers and connections, industrial users, inspections, and approval of connections,
rejection of materials or workmanship, sewer line extensions, backfilling sewer and
water plan adoption, assessments and fees, cooperative and reimbursement
agreements, board of appraisers, sewer charge appraisal, Council approval of charges
and fees, basis for charges, wastewater users fees and assessments, sewer connection
requirements, special charges, sewer inspections, septic tank waste dumping, billing
and payment, delinquencies and procedures, disconnection for nonpayment, sewer
system fund, receipt and disbursement of monies, private sewer disposal systems,
maintenance of lines, contractor license, point of liability for maintenance, user liability
of violations, limitations of city liability for service interruptions, prohibition against injury
to sewer systems, penalties, providing for conflict, validity, savings clause, and
providing an effective date.
Berg: And Ordinance 04-1106, an Ordinance repealing existing water use and service
regulations codified at Chapter 1 of Title 9 of the Meridian City Code, reenacting a new
Chapter 1 of Title 9 of Meridian City Code, to be known as sewer use and sewer
services regulations, including purpose, definitions, authority, mandatory use,
application for service, point of liability for maintenance, water service line connections
and water lines, workmanship, backfilling and service repair, right of entry for
inspections for testing, water main extensions, assessments and fees, cooperative or
reimbursement agreements, basis for water charges, users, and equipment connection
appraisers -- appraisals, connection to property outside the city limits, board of
appraisers, monthly rates, due date for payment, and late charges, delinquencies,
resumption of water service after turn off for a nonpayment, authority to amend
regulations, water fund establishment, private water systems, water line development,
adoption of water plans, pressurized irrigation systems, non -liability for water shortages,
lawn sprinkler and use regulations, limitation on location of the post, fire hydrants,
protections, and pipes and meters, waste of water or entry to water system, users
liability, penalties, providing for conflict, validity, savings clause and providing for an
effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. I guess while we have this in front of us, I'd ask Mr.
Nary, is there any chance that we could just show these ordinances by title only up on
the screen and that would meet the criteria or does it have to be read into the record?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- I thought you wouldn't call on me,
that's why I came over here. What the state statute says is they have to be read once
by title. At least the only other place I have ever had experience they don't read them
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 81 of 84
by title. They list them on the agenda by title, they acknowledge them on the Consent
Agenda by title, and if they waive the reading rules, they put it in the actual title of the
ordinance that they are waiving the reading rules and they pass it on the Consent
Agenda.
De Weerd: Can you perhaps work with the city clerk on a process here, so that -- you
know, while we love to hear from the city clerk --
Nary: Madam Mayor, what I was going to propose -- I know -- I know it's disappointing
that we didn't solve all the problems in the first day, because I know you had a lot of
expectations for the 5th of October and, I'm sorry, as I told people, I remembered where
I worked and I remember what I did, and that was probably all I could do for the first
day, but what my expectation was is we have an issue about the ordinance regarding
appointing of officers that we need to clarify next week and fix. There is a couple of
other issues, administrative types of issues -- one of them is the swearing in of all of the
audience. I think we have had that issue come up previously and the Council has
requested that we change that and delete that provision from the code. Our normal
process is to have that on pre -Council for discussion. What I was planning to do is I'm
hoping to be able to have by n ext week at least a couple of those things, the more
administrative function types of things, so that we can get the process moving a little bit
faster on pre -Council, so I'm hoping to have as many of them as I can get done by the
end of this week on your agenda next Tuesday. If you think they are satisfactory and
you're willing to move forward, you can always move them onto your regular agenda
and pass them if you want to do that. So, some of those things we can do. Like I said,
the state code doesn't -- there is no case I'm aware of in the state of Idaho that was
challenged because they didn't actually read the ordinance out loud.
De Weerd: And we could also read it to ourselves.
Nary: Right. The statute says it has to be read once by title. It doesn't say it has to be
read out loud.
De Weerd: Thank you. Well, we will look forward to you bringing those clarifications
back to us.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I think we have an executive session to adjourn to, but before we do --
Bird: We've got to pass these.
Rountree: What's that?
Bird: We've got to pass these three ordinances.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 82 of 84
Rountree: We've got to pass the three ordinances, number one, so I will move that we
approve ordinances 04-1104, 04-1105, 04-1106, with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Items 18, 19, and 20, ordinances
that were read by title. Is there any further discussion? Mr. Berg.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, one point before we break for executive session and I got a
sense that we were a contributor to the issues as it related to Mrs. Bohm's garage
and --
De Weerd: And this is for Anna.
Rountree: And this is for Anna. And also for Bill. I'm suggesting for consideration do
we offer to Mrs. Bohm the opportunity to appeal the denial if she can arrange her
dwelling in such a way that she can meet all the other ordinance requirements of the
city and that if she can do that and chooses to appeal, that we waive the cost of the
appeal and I would just ask for comments and considerations on that.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Nary also, there -- when I sent
her the second letter, I did make the appeal date subject to that second letter and it's
always seemed to me to be a little bit of a useful loop hole in that someone can ask a
director's determination and, then, the appeal date is set from that date, so I'm not sure
that she couldn't -- I guess this would be the question for Mr. Nary. Can she ask for a
reconsideration of that letter that if she were able to do that all in her house could she
be approved and, then, I could write the letter based on that request? It would just be a
determination letter. And it always seemed a little bit of a loophole. I did offer, by the
way, to write that letter for her, but she was not interested, she wanted to have it in the
garage. It was not an option to just have it in the house, so --
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I was -- in fact, part of the reason I did
come sit over here was to talk to Mrs. Canning about some opportunity we might have
to talk to Mrs. Bohm about what does she do now, because, obviously, she's got a
concern that she's been damaged by her neighbors, she may believe that the city has
somehow caused that damage as well, and so we need to figure out what exactly we
can do. Our ordinance says in-home occupations that you can't use your garage at all
for a home occupation. There isn't anywhere -- there isn't an exception for that, except
by a variance. But that's no longer a garage, it's now living space, and so it's certainly
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 83 of 84
eligible to be used for that. Just because it seems to violate a provision about not
having a garage on your property, doesn't mean it isn't eligible for an accessory use.
So, I think we -- Mrs. Canning and I need to probably sit down and figure out what do
we do, so we can maybe at least approach Mrs. Bohm and say here is what we can
come up with, here is what we think you can do, I just need to figure that out in my mind
tonight as to how do we do that.
Rountree: That's all I'm asking.
Nary: Sure.
Rountree: Some way to continue a dialogue with her.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I would agree and also another comment that Councilman Rountree made is if
there is an opportunity to waive some of those fees, because of some of the confusion,
whatever process we have that might seem reasonable, I think that would be in order as
well.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think before we would probably
suggest waiving a fee, that would certainly come back to you before -- before we would
recommend doing that. The only other thing I'd add to your question, Council member
Rountree, is because the process is completed, I think it would be -- I think it would
make more sense to waive a new application fee, rather than go backwards and do a
reconsideration of something that was decided two months ago.
Rountree: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, yes, if you just discuss that and maybe report back via memo to
Council on what the steps would be.
Bird: Tomorrow would be fine.
De Weerd: Later tonight.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I move we go into executive session as per Idaho State Code 67-
2345(1)(b).
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn into executive session. Mr. Berg,
would you call roll.
Meridian City Council
October 5, 2004
Page 84 of 84
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you.
EXECUTIVE SESSION:
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:55 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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