HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-07-25Meridian City Council July 25, 2017
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m.,
Tuesday, July 25, 2017, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Joe Borton, Ty Palmer,
Luke Cavener and Genesis Milam.
Members Absent: Anne Little Roberts.
Others Present: Bill Nary, C.Jay Coles, Dale Bolthouse, Laurelei McVey,
Warren Stewart, Jeff Lavey, David Jones, Jaycee Holman, Caleb Hood, Bill
Parsons, Josh Beach, Colin Moss, Chris Pope, Jake Garo and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
___ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X__ Keith Bird
__X___Genesis Milam __X__ Lucas Cavener
__X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Well, I'd like to welcome all of you to our City Council meeting.
Thank you for joining us. For the record it is -- whoa. For the record it is July
25th. It's 6:00 p.m. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us
in the pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Kirk Stafford with the Settlers Park
LDS Stake
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by
Kirk Stafford with the Settlers Park LDS Ward. Thank you so much for joining us.
If you will all participate in the community invocation or take this as an
opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Stafford: Our Dear Heavenly Father, we are grateful to be gathered together
today to work for the people of this area and Meridian. We are grateful especially
for the officers that are about to be sworn in and for their -- their service. Please
watch over them, protect them and their families. Help them to protect those in
our community. Please watch over the Council. Help them to be just and wise in
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July 25, 2017
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all that they do. Help those that participate that they might be courteous and civil
and that they might be inspired to say those things that they would like to say and
participate in. We are grateful for our great country that we live in and the great
state of Idaho and we say these things in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
De Weerd: I would love to offer you a City of Meridian pin for leading us tonight.
Thank you for coming.
Stafford: Thank you.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Under the Consent Agenda 6 -B is Resolution No. 17-2019. C is Resolution
No. 17-2020. Item 9-A has been taken care of, so it's vacated from the agenda.
Item 9-D has been asked to be continued to August 15th, 2017. Item 9 -F the
resolution number is 17-2021. Ordinance No. 11-A -- the proposed Ordinance
17- 1741. B is 17-1741 -- or 42. And with that I move we approve the agenda as
amended.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as read. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Future Meeting Topics - Public Forum (Up to 30 Minutes
Maximum)
Coles: There were no sign-ups.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 5 is the Future Meeting Topics Public Forum and there
were no signups.
Item 6: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of July 11, 2017 City Council
Workshop Meeting
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B. Resolution No. 17-2019: Updating the City of Meridian
Records Retention Schedule
C. Resolution No. 17-2020: Adding City of Meridian
Standard Operating Policy Regarding Employee Use of
Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (also known as drones)
D. Professional Services Agreement with Sue Vanasouk for
Traffic Box Community Art Project for an amount Not to
Exceed $300
E. Professional Services Agreement with Lisa Flowers
Ross for Traffic Box Community Art Project for an
amount Not to Exceed $300
F. Professional Services Agreement with Karen Lowery for
Traffic Box Community Art Project for an amount Not to
Exceed $300
G. REVISED Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law,
Decision and Order for Goddard Creek (H-2017-0007) by
Brian Porter Located 2780 W. McMillan Road
H. Approval for Finance to Pay Vendor Payments of
$2,130,176.41
I. Amended onto agenda: June 2017 Financial Report
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 6, our Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: As stated earlier Item B is 17 -2019. Item C is 17-2020. And with that I
move we approve the Consent Agenda with the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to
attest.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Mr.
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
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De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 7: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
A. Police Department: Swearing in of 5 new Police Officers
De Weerd: So, we will move to Item 8 -A under our Police Department and I will
turn this over to Chief Lavey.
Lavey: So, is it safe to move this?
Cavener: At your own risk.
Lavey: So, Madam Mayor, Council, thank you for the opportunity to speak in
front of you today. I know I'm in front of this -- this group often, but I can't think of
a better moment than today and the ability to introduce some new police officers
to our community and it's probably the -- the best job that I have. So, if you
would allow me to welcome the officers to come forward, I'd like to introduce
them individually and, then, we are going to do a swearing in ceremony and for
the families that are here that want pictures come up and get as close as you
need to to get that perfect picture. We don't want you having to take the picture
from the back of the room to get a whole bunch of heads in there. Come
forward. Don't worry about it. So, if the officers could come forward, please , and
stand over to my right. And, then, smile as Holly takes your picture. And if the
officer could raise your hand so people can know who I'm talking about, although
the first one should be pretty obvious. So, Ashley. Ashley Reyes. Ashley brings
with her four and a half years of experience where she worked as a deputy
sheriff for the Orange County Sheriff's Office in Orange county, California.
Robert. Robert Rodriguez brings with him nine and a half years of experience
where he worked as a police officer for the Whittier Police Department in Whittier,
California. Ken. Ken Caygle brings with him 17 years of experience. Man y of
you -- many of us know Ken from his experience as a past six years working as a
senior probation officer with probation and parole out of the Meridian Police
Department. He also worked five years as juvenile probation for Canyon county.
Ken began his career working six -- six years as a lead gaming instructor for the
travel and gaming commission for Jackson, California. You had to stock with that
pattern in California, didn't you. Joe. Joe W hilden brings with him 14 and a half
years of law enforcement knowledge and experience. During the past seven
years he has served as a training manager for the Idaho POST here in Meridian.
He also worked five and a half years for the street -- as a street crimes detective
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July 25, 2017
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for the city of Caldwell. Joe began his career working two years as a detention
deputy for Canyon County Sheriff's Office in Canyon county, Idaho. And Josh.
Josh Bridges brings with him more than six and a half years where he worked as
a patrolman for the Caldwell Police Department in Caldwell, Idaho. All of you
welcome aboard. If you could raise your right hand and repeat after me. I, state
your name, do solemnly swear or affirm that I will support the Constitution of the
United States and the constitution and laws of the state of Idaho and the laws
and ordinances of the City of Meridian. That I will abide by the Law Enforcement
Code of Ethics and the policies and procedures of the Meridian Police
Department. That I will obey all lawful orders from those appointed over me and
that I will, to the best of my ability, faithfully discharge all the duties of police
officer in and for the City of Meridian, state of Idaho, so help me God.
Congratulations. So, did everybody get their pictures? Madam Mayor, Council,
do you have any comments?
De Weerd: Just you -- you have joined a team that is well respected within our
-- our community. We just received results back from our citywide survey and
this is the team that you're joining. Our citizens have an overall safety -- feeling
of safety in our city of 91 percent. That is because of the efforts of -- of the family
that you just joined. The professionalism of those responding to emergencies
was rated at 90 percent. The quality of local police protection is 90 percent. And
how quickly police respond to an emergency was rated at 88 percent. We think
that you're joining an elite team and we appreciate that your interest in joining
this team is the culture that many of our officers and our command staff emulate.
We want to thank the -- the families as well that you're entrusting your loved one
to our city. We promise you we will do everything we can to keep them trained,
to equip them with the -- the tools they need to be safe and successful and that
we will deliver them home to you. So, we thank you for being here, for joining us,
joining our team and we look forward to seeing you serve our citizens who place
a lot of their faith and trust in what you do in our community. So, thank you for --
for being here and thank you, chief, for allowing us always to be a part of this.
Lavey: Thank you, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. We -- we will allow the families -- you don't have to stay.
A Voice: Can we leave the kids?
Cavener: Sure.
De Weerd: You bet. We will put them to sleep, so -- I have to say, though,
Laurelei was really excited because she thought the room was full of people
interested in our NPDES report. So, sorry, to bust that bubble.
Item 9: Action Items
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A. Appeal by Jason Conner for the Order to Abate
Nuisance Located at 1455 N. Penrith Ave.
De Weerd: Okay. We will move into our Action Items. Action Item 9 -A is -- has
been requested to be vacated from the agenda. Council, do I have a motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we take Item 9-A off the agenda as the nuisance has been abated.
De Weerd: Do I have a second?
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to remove this item from the agenda.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Request to Approve Alcohol License for Deja Brew
Laugh a Latte within 300’ of a Place of Worship
De Weerd: Item 9-B is a request to approve an alcohol license for Deja Brew
Laugh a Latte and I will turn this over to Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. If you remember a
couple of weeks ago we discussed the new beer and wine license of the Deja
Brew Laugh a Latte on Idaho Street. They have received their approval from the
state and the county and so they do need specific approval from this body, since
they are within 300 feet of a church. Other than that there is no other concern for
this license.
De Weerd: Okay. Is -- do we have a representative from Deja Brew? Okay.
Counsel, any questions for staff?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If there are no questions, I would move that we approve the requested
alcohol license for Deja Brew Laugh a Latte.
Milam: Second.
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July 25, 2017
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9 -B. Any discussion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I just want to point out that I love how each time we brought this up the
two attorneys in the room have both taken opportunity to say Deja Brew and
Laugh a Latte. I don't know why, guys.
De Weerd: If there is no further comment, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. (Originally 9G) Public Hearing for Linder and Overland
Apartments (H-2017- 0093) by Woff Enterprises II, LLC
Located south side of W. Overland Road, Approximately
1/4 Mile West of S. Linder Road
1. Request: Modification to the Existing Development
Agreement to Remove the Subject Property from the
Agreement and Execute a New Development
Agreement Solely for the Subject Property
De Weerd: Item 9-C is originally -- oh, well, I don't have to say that. H-2017-
0093. I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Palmer: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next item on
the agenda this evening is the Linder and Overland Apartments development
agreement modification. The property is located on the south side of West
Overland Road, just west of South Linder Road. It consists of 19.5 acres of land
and is currently zoned T N-C within the city limits. History on this property. In
2007 it was originally annexed in and preliminary platted as part of the
Southridge Apartments development, which is primarily the surrounding zoning in
the area. In 2008 the city processed two additional applications. One was a
property boundary adjustment to reconfigure the parcel as you see it before you
this evening. The second was for a conditional use permit and a DA modification
to allow the site to be developed with an assisted living facility and a church in
the future. The reason why the property boundary adjustment was initiated by
the developer at the time was so that the configuration of this property would
align with the concept plan that was approved with that development agreement
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July 25, 2017
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in 2008. In 2012 many different owners came forward and processed another
development agreement modification for this particular property. In that specific
development agreement there was a new overall master site plan that was
approved with that agreement and this -- on this graphic before you this evening I
have depicted the -- the subject property that is part of the DA modification this
evening. Here you will see where the -- how it is proposed to be laid out. The
other part that was the other DA provision in -- in that agreement tied the site to a
maximum of 250 dwelling units on the site. So, again, the applicant is here this
evening to modify what you see before you and has proposed a new concept
plan that consists of 336 apartments in 14 buildings in total, all three stories, and
a 9,000 square foot clubhouse slash community building, all to be developed in a
single phase. The applicant is also proposing some site amenities on the site
plan as well. In their narrative they have indicated, again, the clubhouse, they
have a pool and spa, a fitness room, children's play structure, and two barbecue
areas and picnic areas. Now, I would mention to the Council that because this
property is currently zoned T N-C, if the Council approves a development
agreement modification, the applicant will only be required to have staff level
approval for the proposed multi-family development. The TN-C zone allows
multi-family as a principally permitted use. So, they need this step -- this concept
plan to be modified so they can move forward and work with staff modifying
some of these -- some of the concept plan and some of the elevations that I'm
changing -- that we are showing you this evening as well. So, here is our -- here
are the proposed elevations. Again, the applicant will be required to go through
certificate of zoning compliance for further refinement . Building materials include
board and batten siding, fiber cement paneling, and composite shingles for the
roofing materials. These elevations that are before you this evening don't
technically comply with all the design standards in our architectural standards
manual, but as I mentioned to you, if approved staff -- the applicant will have to
come back and modify these elevations to comply with the current UDC
standards and I will go into my DA provisions as well and let you know what we
are proposing as part of the new DA. So, their proposal tonight is to basically
remove this property from the overall Southridge DA and enter into a new DA
subject to the plans that you're seeing this evening. So, staff is recommending
approval of the subject application. These are the six provisions that we are
recommending be included as part of the new DA for the applicant . So, I will
quickly run through those for you. So, the first one basically generally has them
complying with their concept plan and building elevations and, of course, they
have to comply with our design guidelines and architectural standards manual.
Because there are 336 residential units planned and the concept plan does not --
shows only -- no access to Overland Road and they only have access to Spanish
Springs, they are going to have to comply with fire department requirements and
provide a secondary access to Overland Road and that's where DA provision
number two comes in. So, we will allow them to have emergency access, but we
do not want any direct lot access to Overland Road for the apartment complex .
Number three ties them to the requirements they are coming through with a CZC
and a design review application and comply with the multi-family standards and
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July 25, 2017
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also with the open space and site amenity standards in 11 -3-G. So, this
particular project with multi-family developments in particular there is open space
requirements under that section in the code and, then, because this site exceeds
five acres in size they will have to also comply with a ten percent requirement in
11-3-G of our UDC and provide amenities in accordance with those standards as
well. The number -- number four we are tying the applicant to a maximum
number of units, just like we had in the previous DA. As I mentioned to you
previously, we were at 250 units. The applicant is looking to increase that
number to 336. One thing that I want to step b ack on the site plan really quick is
that if you notice there is three ACHD retention ponds as part of their proposal.
Those are currently constructed on that property and so the applicant has the
ability to incorporate that into their overall open space as part of the UDC
standards, if they can meet those standards. We believe that this is important to
the esthetics of the development to have these ponds integrated into this design,
so it looks like it is part of the development. So, that's where that number five DA
provision comes in, that we'd really like the applicant to coordinate with ACHD,
their requirements, meet the UDC requirements and make sure that it does
enhance the overall esthetics of this proposed development. And, then, last, but
not least, because this is not a substantial change, but there is a change in a
number in the density and units proposed for this site, we definitely need to get
some modeling done for our Public Works Department and so they will have to
provide that information to staff, so that I can route it up to Public Works for their
modeling to ensure that we have adequate sewer capacity and fire flows to serve
the proposed development. Staff did receive written testimony from Tamara
Thompson in agreement with the DA provisions that I presented to you this
evening. With that I would close my presentation and stand for any questions
you may have.
De Weerd: Bill, don't we usually model the water and sewer prior to bringing
recommendations? Are there concerns that we would not be able to serve this
increase in density?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, typically with a DA
modification that is not required as part of our application submittal. That is part
of a conditional use permit as part of a preliminary plat, a final plat, as part of a --
even a certificate of zoning compliance where we have the extension of city
services or city mains, we require them to provide that information, so that we
can model it. Typically in our world we do route these to Public Works for review,
but because this was a DA modification it was not part of that at this time and
that's why we wanted to make sure to have that DA provision in here, so that we
could adequately ensure that we don't get too far down the road and we have the
adequate capacity to do that. And this is something I -- I spoke with Bruce
Freckleton in our office and he felt that was an appropriate condition at this point.
But keep in mind the original DA vested them with 250. We are at 336 now, so
it's -- it isn't -- it is an increase, but certainly we don't want to overlook it. But I will
go ahead and turn it over to Warren for any other comments.
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Stewart: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we -- we would -- typically
wouldn't model it until we actually had some sort of preliminary design for the
water and the sewer, so we knew where the lines were going to be placed, how
big they were proposing those lines to be and so forth. So, as soon as we get
some sort of a concept plan that has that information in there, then, we can
actually put that information into the model and model it to see if there is a
sufficient fire flow for the fire protection and sewer capacity. Knowing the area a
little bit, I don't anticipate that it's going to be an issue, but certainly we'd have to
model that to ensure that that's the case.
De Weerd: I guess at what point with the increase in density do you think it's -- it
warrants almost like this is a new application, because it is quite different -- that
this would be part of the analysis that you would have for -- and I guess this is a
question for Bill.
Parsons: Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you look -- I had this
question, so I was able to look at their original DA for Southridge. So, if you keep
-- as I mentioned to you earlier in my presentation, this is a smaller part of a
larger area if you look at the aerial of the original concept plan. So, more than
likely my -- what I anticipated as most of this was contemplated when this master
concept plan came through, right now the original DA for the overall Southridge
project is entitled to 1,286 residential units out there. So, this is a small piece of
that. The Planning and Zoning Commission just recommended an apartment
complex just to the west of this site with 476 units and we didn't have any
concerns with that -- that scale of project. So, those apartments are in this
general area here. So, I think we have probably anticipated that based on what
we have in place currently approved out there. So, that's why, again, in speaking
it over with Bruce and as Warren mentioned, typically they provide that
information to us when development is proposed, not -- not at a conceptual
portion of phase, but that's why we think it is critical. What we could do is
certainly modify that condition to have them done prior to maybe even submitting
a CZC to ensure that it's -- it's modeled or if it's the Council's discretion it could
continue it out, see if the applicant has anything prepared that we can get over to
Public Works and have modeled and bring back a definite answer to you . Some
options for you to consider.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Okay. Is the applicant here? Good
evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Thompson: Absolutely, Madam Mayor. My name is Tamara Thompson. I'm with
The Land Group at 462 East Shore Drive in Eagle.
De Weerd: Thank you, Tamara.
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July 25, 2017
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Thompson: Bill has thoroughly presented the project and the application, so I
won't repeat what he said. We are fully prepared to answer your questions. With
me tonight from the development side from the Woff Company is Greg Van
Patten and Andrew Hunt, just sitting over here, and I also have the architect
Dane Knudsen from Koterra Architects, should you have any specific questions.
We have read the staff report and agree with staff 's analysis and their
recommendation -- the recommended conditions of approval, including working
with staff to further refine the site and buildings to comply with the architectural
design standards manual and we, The Land Group, have been the civil engineer
for the Southridge project and so we are familiar with the sewer and water
systems out there and we don't anticipate any capacity issues. So, with that we
will respectfully request your approval tonight and we will stand for questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Tamara, so it's like a 30 percent increase in units? Did they just go from
two story to three story or how did -- how did it grow that much?
Thompson: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, the site plans changed quite a
bit, so you will see before it was more than just apartments, there was a church
there and some other elements. So, it's just -- that church is no longer proposed,
so it just has increased the area of the apartments.
Milam: Madam Mayor, follow up. So, they were three story already in the
original plan?
Thompson: I don't -- I don't know that for sure. I don't know the answer to that
question as far as the -- the stories. I just know how many units were approved
in that development agreement.
De Weerd: Other questions from Council? I guess I do on -- can you change it
to the -- the concept map or the site map? This looks lovely until I heard Bill say
that those ponds are retention ponds. Are they going to have water in them or
are they just going to be the -- the depressed retention ponds that we typically
see with road retention ponds?
Thompson: Madam Mayor, these ponds have water in them most -- most of the
time and our intention is to work with ACHD on a license agreement in order to
make those amenities. So, that we would landscape them nicely, so they look
like nice -- nice pond amenities. But these you do have water in them most of
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July 25, 2017
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the time, if not all of the time. Definitely that larger one on the north side has
water in it all the time.
De Weerd: And you will have some kind of an aerator in there to move the
water, so it doesn't become nice mosquito breeding areas; right?
Thompson: We will have to work with them on the specifics of that. I don't know
what they specifically allow that we can definitely landscape them and make
them look nicer and, hopefully, we can add that aeration and keep the water
moving, so they are not stagnant and what I like to call the West Nile ponds.
De Weerd: Well, that's what I would not like to see us work to create, so --
Thompson: Yeah. The intent is to work with ACHD and make those amenities.
De Weerd: Okay. And, Bill, how have -- Councilman Milam asked if these had
changed in height. Did we have elevations with the original application?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we did. Keep in mind the
assisted living facility portion was single story and was about 87 ,000 to 90,000
square feet. So, that's where a lot of the units would have been and, then, if I
can go back to the concept plan, these units here more than likely would have
been the two-story units, two -- not -- not three stories, but two stories to get that
250. So, this is the single story assisted living that was approved with that
conditional use permit. The church didn't have much details on the church
elevations, because you can see here it was kind of a -- may happen, don't know,
and so they weren't real clear on how that was to happen, but they still had that
in their approval.
De Weerd: And can you switch to the elevations?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, I can try to pull those up and see what we have here.
Find the original CUP, see what we had.
De Weerd: No. Bill, I meant that exist -- the proposed.
Parsons: I can do that. Sorry about that.
De Weerd: So, the variation in treatment what -- what will those look like and is
there anything comparable right now in the market to give context to what that
might look like?
Thompson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, these are -- are very boxy
looking and we will definitely comply with the architectural standards that
Meridian has. So, this will change considerably. But the intent is for them to
have more of a farmhouse feel for that side of town and so that -- those are the
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July 25, 2017
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-- the nice clean lines that you're seeing and for more detail I could have the
architect talk to you and I have -- actually do have a rendered drawing that I
could put up for you, if you would like to see --
De Weerd: Yes, you could give that to Bill and we can put it on the Elmo -- or
C.Jay. So, I guess what I didn't understand, Bill, is the original approval was for
assisted living care and associated probably independent housing and this has
morphed into an apartment development.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's actually -- that's an
accurate statement. Correct.
De Weerd: Well, that looks much different than what we just saw.
Thompson: Yes. Madam Mayor, it's been refined more than -- than the initial
application elevations. So, this is the -- the design vision for -- for the site with
the clubhouse and -- and we do have quite a bit of open space , especially with
those ponds. It's over our acre -- or five acres of open space where the overall
site is 19.5 and, then, you have got five acres of open space out of that.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: The Mayor has asked enough.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I do have one. Bill, maybe you can answer it. On that -- the proposed
condition regarding the retention ponds, it states the existing ponds may count
towards the required open space if they can comply with the UDC provisions
cited. If they can't comply, the project still complies with the required open
space? It doesn't need those retention ponds to count or does it?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, don't know that for sure. The
application that was submitted to the city indicated they had 1.86 acres of open
space -- qualified open space. As I presented to you there is a 19 and a half
acres site here, so with this particular project you -- typically with a DA mod we
don't get detailed open space calcs. That's something that we work with the
applicant on with the CZC and design review and that's why I try to mention it in
my staff report that this isn't going to the code and making sure everything a
hundred percent complies. This is a rough -- this is a concept plan. But the
applicant will have to comply with the open space requirements in the multi-
family standards, which is typically about 250 square feet per multi-family unit, in
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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addition to provide ten percent. So, I would imagine they are going to be
somewhere in the neighborhood of over two and a half acres of open space. So,
if those ponds don't -- aren't designed appropriately I still think they are going to
probably have enough open space to comply with that . As Tamara mentioned,
they have close to -- I believe you said four acres or 40 percent -- five acres of
open space with the pond size, so I don't see that being an issue. For us it's
really the aesthetics and how is that -- how are those ponds going to -- to frame
this development and that's why I felt it was appropriate to add that as a
condition, because we want to make sure that those are integrated and not just
as an afterthought and an eye sore for residents living there and having to deal
with it.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Quick follow up. Can you -- can you summarize what 11.3B.11 requires
of a retention pond to qualify?
Parsons: I have the code here.
Borton: That would -- let's hope that Tamara would bring to ACHD in hopes that
they would permit it to be designed to comply with that.
Parsons: That code requires they have to have a certain -- a certain slope, so
three-to-one slope, landscape it, not a sand bottom, but incorporate it into the
development. So, certainly some of that free-standing water typically that needs
to -- if it's going to be treated as a pond it would have to be aeriated, as the
Mayor indicated, and so that there is circulation of that water. So, certainly
vegetating it and meeting the landscape ordinance, that's the intent is that you
have three-to-one slopes and it's vegetated per ACHD standards and our
standard. So, there is kind of two of us -- two codes that apply, ACHD standards
and our standards, which require a mixture of vegetation and trees to be -- not
placed on the banks, but around that area, so that it's enhanced and not just dirt.
Borton: All right. Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: So, I guess I -- I am -- what does our code state about these DA
mods and what triggers a new plat and concept -- more than a concept plan -- I
mean this went from assisted living to an apartment complex. This went to --
from 250 units to 333. This has a whole different configuration and I guess with
all these questions -- and that comes further, because of the type of application
this is, it seems that Council will never know really what they are approving, other
than a concept, that to just -- all the details be worked out later, whereas a
different application you have all those details for them to take into consideration
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 15 of 86
to make a decision. So, it seems a little odd, because of the -- the level of
change to this that you don't -- we don't require that kind of detail.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council -- and that -- and that's why I
brought it up in the staff report, because it is an unusual circumstance. Usually in
that particular case -- the example that you used, that conditional use permit was
happening at the same time that the DA mod was happening in 2008 for the
assisted living facility. So, you were seeing that as part of a rezone, as part of a
CU and kind of getting the big picture. Here I appreciate bringing -- the applicant
bringing this rendering, because that one dimensional drawing doesn't give you
the look that you're looking -- it's hard to look at that and say is this going to be a
nice development. But when you see a rendering like this, this certainly gives
you more details than what you had with -- with the site plan that they gave us
and the reason why I brought it up is because, again, we are going to want
interconnected pathways throughout the development; right? We want all of
these units connected. W e are going to want to know tree counts, we are going
to want street buffers, we are going to want to know -- so, the applicant gave us
the information that they thought you could -- to inform the Council in order to
make a decision. They told you that they wanted to incorporate the ponds. They
have given you the actual number of apartments they want to construct. They
have given you details on the amenities that they anticipate for the development.
So, I think we have some of those big ticket items lai d out in the DA. What we
don't have is, like you said, the sidewalks, lighting, some of those items that we --
again, we don't get to it at this stage, because it's not a full-blown -- it's not a
detailed site plan review at this point. It is basically amending a development
agreement and a concept plan and approving a new concept plan. Again, the
only change here is that it doesn't require any more refinement , unless -- that's
why I brought it up to Council, if they need more information to have some
assurances that this is the right fit for this property, then, certainly the applicant --
the Council has the right to ask for more of those details on the site plan and
bring them back and we can vet that a little bit more and provide some more
analysis for the Council if they choose that.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill.
Thompson: Madam Mayor, if I could add to -- to what Bill said. This property is
zoned TN-C and with the TN-C apartments are permitted in that zone, so the
only reason that we needed to come before City Council is because there is a
development agreement on the property and the development agreement
modification, then, is just to modify that concept plan for the property. Otherwise,
if the development agreement didn't exist, then, the TN-C would go through the
same process that Bill was saying, just do the CZC and the design review.
De Weerd: Well -- and that's why we usually in these big developments have a
development agreement, so that when something substantially changes Council
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Page 16 of 86
will have an opportunity to see that. Okay. Anything further from Council?
Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Would the condition one that makes reference to the exhibit, A-3 and A-
4, include also this rendering that we just saw to ensure that it's designed
consistent with the exhibit perhaps?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we can certainly have that
added as an exhibit.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Thompson: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there -- oh, I'm sorry. Is there anyone
who wishes to testify on this item ? Good evening. Thank you for joining us. If
you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Downs: I live on -- my name is Estefania Downs and I live at 1620 West
Woodington Street.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Downs: We did not know that this was going to be occurring, so I would like to
thank all of you for proceeding cautiously. Had we known there was going to be
a large apartment complex being built we probably would have not have chosen
to build our home there on that site. We were told it was going to be different
facilities. So, I do have some questions. We have had some water issues living
there already. I don't understand -- I don't understand the increase in the number
of apartments and I also have some concerns about how close -- that is our
understanding is there was going to be a school across the street from that, so
that seems like a high volume of traffic for a proposed school. I guess that hasn't
been annexed in yet, but that was our understanding when we brought the
property. So, those would be my questions and my concerns and also I was just
wondering how -- a proposed finish date on that as well. Those would be my
concerns.
De Weerd: Thank you, Stephanie. Is there any further testimony? I guess some
of those questions really showed the downside of -- of modifying the
development agreement from one proposed use to another without a re-
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July 25, 2017
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application with full notice and neighborhood meeting and -- and that sort of
thing. Okay. Final word from the applicant?
Thompson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Tamara Thompson again. I
do want to state that we did have a neighborhood meeting for this application --
De Weerd: Oh. Okay.
Thompson: -- and we -- and we actually increased the area, because the 300
feet kind of ended mid-block and so we went ahead and included the whole
block, so that we didn't have people saying, hey, my neighbor got invited, but I
didn't. So, we did have a neighborhood meeting for this to explain the application
and as far as the timing for this project -- and I'm not sure if that's what her
question was, but we are hoping to start construction the end of this year and it
will take about a two year build out, so the end of -- or late 2019 would be
completion. So, with that we respectfully request your approval tonight.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Tamara, in the report it talks about a play area for the kids. I know one
of our colleagues typically likes to inquire about the play structures, but with a 30
percent increase I just naturally assume 30 percent more kids. Can you -- you
show us where that is or what's envisioned for that ? This is a large facility. We
expect a lot of kids and the school we know doesn't always come as fast as one
would like and so some education about what's envisioned would be very helpful
to me.
Thompson: Madam Mayor, Commissioner -- or Councilman Cavener, we have
-- we have quite a bit of -- and I don't know if this mouse works for -- for you
seeing. We have quite a bit of open space and the pool structure is in this area
and we would have play areas in here -- and I'm sorry we don't have a full design
done for that yet, but it would be designed accordingly to the number and size of
units. But it would be in these open areas. We have barbecue areas planned for
these various areas also.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, an additional question. Tamara, how many people
attended the neighborhood meeting?
Thompson: We had two people attend the neighborhood meeting.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up. Two households or one household with two
people?
Thompson: One household, two people.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 18 of 86
Cavener: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: In the marketing literature for -- because this is part of a huge
development. Did the marketing material to the home that -- that were being
bought in the -- the surrounding area, did it show as an assisted care facility?
Thompson: Madam Mayor, I have not seen the marketing information that the --
that the single family real estate agents are showing their -- their potential
buyers, so I'm not sure I can answer that question. I don't know what their
marketing -- this has had -- has had an apartment complex associated with the
land. It's just -- it's just larger and that eliminates portions of -- of other
development that was -- that was planned here.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council? Thank you.
Thompson: Thank you.
De Weerd: If you will state your name again for the public record.
Downs: Estafania Downs. We were told it would be an assisted living and a
church, but we were not told about the apartment complexes , so we knew that
that would be a possibility. Our HOA meets once a year and we are -- we don't
even meet until next month, so we were not informed that there was a meeting
going on about this. We didn't receive a flyer or anything like that. If we did we
didn't understand that it tied to this proposition and everything that was in place.
My other question that I didn't get answered was what are your proposals about
the volume of traffic. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Stephanie, could you mind -- could I ask you a question? Sorry.
Thanks for your previous testimony. You had indicated some concerns about
water.
Downs: Yes.
Cavener: I was just hoping that you could expand a little bit on that for us.
Downs: So, this has been a really confusing actually site , I guess, as a property
owner. We were told that -- I can't even see these from up here, but anyways --
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 19 of 86
De Weerd: It should be right in front of you.
Downs: Oh. Okay. That property directly across the street we were told is
owned by the City of Meridian, so that's one area that there is water holdings is
my understanding and this apartment -- proposed apartment complex is another
water holding and we have heard there is basically like three or four different
permits I guess you say. I don't understand how the whole water thing works.
But we did have water access issues. There was a pipe broken. The HOA
wasn't informed. Our water was shut off for our lawn, so it was dying. We have
had several issues with it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up. Stephanie, the water issues impacting your
-- I guess your ability to -- excuse me -- irrigate or water your yard or is it --
Downs: Yes.
Cavener: -- water that's impacting like your home?
Downs: Water impacting our yard so far.
Cavener: All right. Thank you.
Downs: Yeah.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Just a couple questions for you. When you decided to build your house
-- I'm trying to figure out when you -- at what point you got in contract to build
your house.
Downs: So, we got in contract to build our house and we signed the papers in
December of 2016 and moved in -- no. Wait. Excuse me. 2015. And we moved
in last year in May and we have been there a year. So, we literally are still a
brand new subdivision. We have had a lot of -- you know, all the issues that
come with a new development. We haven't even -- we don't even have an active
HOA yet. We have had, you know, somebody else is in charge of our HOA, so, I
did not plan to be the only person here from the neighborhood . There was a plan
and I guess I'm it for now. But we were not informed of this I think as a group.
Palmer: And Madam Mayor? How did you hear about tonight's meeting?
Downs: The huge signs that are posted in the fields where they are going to be
changing.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 20 of 86
Palmer: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And maybe for staff. When -- when was the original plan approved? It
probably was said at some point, but --
Parsons: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Palmer,
the original Southridge DA was approved in 2006 and, then, it was amended in
2008 for the assisted living independent care, church site. And it was, again,
amended in 2012 with the master concept plan and ties them to 250 units and,
again, the plan that I show this evening --
Palmer: Madam Mayor? So, the -- the apartments first came into the story in
2006 or was it --
Parsons: That is correct.
Palmer: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: And, then, changed in 2008. So, because this is a development
modification, did we do the typical notifications using NextDoor and the ones that
we normally do with applications? I guess that's a question for Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Madam Mayor, looking -- opening up that right now and, yes, we did mail
out notices for the radius and this does pass the timeline, which we would have
started NextDoor, so we would have done that as well.
De Weerd: Okay. Any -- further comment from the applicant? Just want to give
you the last word.
Thompson: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Tamara Thompson again. I
just -- I was texting here getting information on the PI system, the pressurized
irrigation, and the -- what I'm getting is that this -- all these properties are in the
Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District and that there is a pump station that covers
the entire property and it's in the process of being transferred to Nampa-Meridian
Irrigation District for the long term maintenance of that. So, I just don't know
about the intermittent issues there, but I know that the long term -- it is currently
being turned over. So, it will be maintained by Nampa-Meridian Irrigation from
here on out. As far as traffic, the original plan -- we worked closely with -- with
ACHD. They did not require a traffic impact study for this development, because
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July 25, 2017
Page 21 of 86
of the initial development and all the different elements there that they felt that
this development fit within that, so they did not require a traffic impact study.
De Weerd: Because the original application in 2006 contemplated that.
Thompson: That it had enough -- yeah. That it --
De Weerd: Okay.
Thompson: -- the development was large enough that this was not substantially
different that would require a traffic impact study.
De Weerd: Because, certainly, I would imagine in 2008 with the assisted living,
the traffic count would have decreased, as would the number of students in the
schools. Thank you. Any further questions from Council?
Thompson: All right. Thank you very much.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for staff. I didn't see it, but I may have missed it, you know, if
it was a new application we would typically get a comment from the school
district. I didn't see any updated -- I assume you didn't ask, because it, again,
was a DA modification.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this should be treated just like
any other application. It gets transmitted to the same group. Any public hearing
application gets transmitted to the same folks, so they can give us a comment.
So, if we didn't receive anything, then, they just didn't respond to the particular
application.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Anything further from Council? Okay. Council, what would you like
to do? If you want additional information or a response from Ada County
Highway District regarding the -- the retention ponds, we could continue this. If
you think you have the information you need, we can close the public hearing.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Little Roberts: I'm overall supportive of the project, but the ponds are a unique
concern. I don't know how quickly information can b e provided back from ACHD
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July 25, 2017
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about what they would and wouldn't allow to make those compliant with what we
would consider to be open space and maybe those -- that meeting's been set up
and it's coming quickly. Of all of the unknowns, since it doesn't come back to
Council, one of the things that at least jumped out -- it would be nice to get some
comforted in how those would be utilized and if there is not an ability to change
them beyond their current condition, that would be good to know.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I don't know. My main concern, other than them going from two story to
three story and changing premises and moving to massive apartment buildings,
is -- aesthetically I think they are ugly. Nothing personal. But for the apartments
that we have seen in the last several years, this just brings it back 20 years.
These were cool maybe 20 years ago, but I just think -- you know, if it was a -- I
think if it was much nicer looking, more vibrant apartment complex, it would be a
lot easier for me to swallow.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I don't disagree with Council Woman Milam's opinion of the aesthetics.
So, if we have got a process to get that course corrected and no -- we have a
need for housing in Meridian and we have a need for high density residential in
Meridian and this is an area that is I think ideal for that and it's been
contemplated for that for at least over a decade ago. So, I echo Council Member
Borton's concerns about some of the unknowns. Question I guess before us.
Are we comfortable with staff in the process addressing those concerns?
Because that's the reason the process has been established. So, I'm supportive
of the DA modification. I'm supportive of the project, recognizing that there is still
a lot of work on the staff level to get this to where we would expect it to be made.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I agree. That -- that was my thoughts in that we have
got staff -- and I trust them to -- to be able to handle and make the decisions and
make sure that it's -- I mean they know what we are looking for and I don't see a
reason for us to have to redo this whole process again , have another meeting
just so that we can see something we think is cooler, that hopefully -- not
hopefully -- I trust staff to make sure that it -- it's done as we would hope that it
would be and if -- if not I'm sure it will probably be even better. If it was just us
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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handling it -- as they look at these all day every day. I'm supportive of moving
forward and letting staff handle it.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: It's good to trust staff, but staff often needs requirements from
Council to back them up and I -- I think, you know, if there is concerns with the
retention ponds, that they need to be actual water amenities that are depicted on
the -- the pictures, staff has the minimum requirements to work with . If you see
something more, those need to be specified in the development agreement,
because oftentimes those are the things that ensure that it will be built to those
specifications. Mr. Cavanaugh.
Cavener: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: Cavener.
Cavener: That's all right.
De Weerd: I don't know where I got that.
Cavener: No. I think, Madam Mayor, you bring up a viable point, kind along the
lines of where I was headed, which was to the applicant, if this was a project that
became before us as is through a regular process I would willing to not be
supportive of it. So, I recognize I'm arguing with two different sides of this coin
here this evening, which can be challenging for staff and for the applicant, but the
Mayor's not wrong. This project as presented is not ideal and is not -- it doesn't
scream Meridian to me by any stretch of imagination.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To answer your question -- and all these questions, I think we have -- we
have given direction in the sense of having adopted these objective
measurements of what these developments have to comply with in the UDC and
the architectural standards manual. The conditions of approval are those
directives that staff utilizes that we have approved to enable the applicant to
comply with that laundry list of conditions and I as well trust staff to be able to
implement those and for the applicant to comply with them as required, but the
one item back to the retention pond that isn't within staff 's control is whether or
not those ponds can be an amenity and there is -- there was an agency outside
of our staff that impacts that. I think -- and I would assume the applicant
probably wants them to be a water amenity and would like them to be something
that makes this site more beautiful for all of its residents and would take great
lengths to make sure ACHD allows that to happen. I would just like that
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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feedback from ACHD and have the applicant be able to say here is how the
retention ponds will not be an issue. They actually would be able to comply as
open space. It's not a concern, because if there is -- if there were some small
chance that there was some hiccup and the applicant was prevented from
altering them in a way that would make them an amenity, that's one item that's
outside our staff control that would give me some concern. So, while I support
the project and all of those standards of the application would have to comply
with, but I would be inclined to table it to allow that feedback to come back on the
-- the retention ponds to be true amenities.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think we need to continue this until the 15th to find out about those ponds.
We have got a couple instances out here where we have allowed these ponds to
go in and they are nothing but mosquito traps and if we don't make it into an
amenity where we got moving water and stuff, that's all we are doing out there.
So, I would make a motion that we continue H-2017-0093 to August 15th, 2017,
and to have them bring back what ACHD will allow in their retention ponds.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Item 9-C to August 15th.
All those in favor -- oh, sorry.
Borton: Madam Mayor?.
De Weerd: Yes.
Borton: Brief discussion on the motion, which I wholly support, but I'm certain the
applicant and staff will talk about those components of the ponds that would
make it an amenity and complaint, which would help drive the conversation with
ACHD about -- rather than having ACHD tell us what can be done with them,
encourage ACHD to approve what we would actually like to have happen , so --
De Weerd: Well -- and just since staff had talked about we are not -- and
Tamara also had mentioned we are not really sure total details of the aesthetics
and we don't have a landscape plan. If any of those things are available I think
that would be helpful to -- more detail does not hurt.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the applicant just indicated to
me that they have a conflict on the April 15th -- or the August 15 hearing. So,
maybe the 22nd might be a better option for them.
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July 25, 2017
Page 25 of 86
De Weerd: Madam Mayor. The motion -- the maker of the motion would agree
on the 22nd also.
Milam: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Yeah. That's our workshop. Yeah. So, I -- the motion and
the second is to continue this item to August 22nd. Any further discussion? All
those in favor say aye. Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: And, Stephanie, maybe you can catch him in the back and -- and get
some additional detail for your neighbors.
D. (Originally 9H) Public Hearing for Blackstone
Subdivision No. 2 (H-2017- 0091) by Blackstone
Commons, LLC Located 4700 W. Aspen Creek Street
1. Request: Short Plat Approval for Three (3) Residential
Lots on Approximately 0.592 Acres in the R-8 Zoning
District
De Weerd: Okay. So, Item 9-D, the applicant requested continuance to August
15th. Council, any detail on that request?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Are you going to open the public hearing --
De Weerd: I thought maybe we could get a little detail on what the request is
to --
Beach: Madam Mayor, the applicant's request is to work with staff on some of
the conditions. There is some confusion and debate as to what they were going
to do versus an easement or a common drive and how to make everything work.
There is just a lot of details that we need to figure out, so we are still kind of
working with him.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any member of the public that was here to testify on
this item? Okay. Or interested? I will open item H-017-0091 and, Council, the
applicant has requested to continue to August 15th.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 26 of 86
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we continue H-2017-0091 to August 15th, 2017.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to continue Item 9-D to August 15th.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
E. (Originally 9I) Public Hearing for Stor-It Self Storage (H-
2017-0071) by Stor-It Self Storage, LLP Located 3735 N.
Ten Mile Road
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 11.860 Acres of
Land with an I-L Zoning District
De Weerd: Item 9-E is H-2017-0071. I will open this public hearing with staff
comments.
Beach: Madam Mayor, this is an application for an annexation. The project
name is Stor-It. This site consists of approximately 11.86 acres of land. It's
currently zoned RUT. They are looking for I-L zoning, located at 3735 North Ten
Mile Road. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is mixed
use nonresidential. As I said, the applicant is requesting to annex and zone the
11.86 acres of land with an I-L zoning district, which is consistent with the
Comprehensive Plan future land use map. The applicant proposes to develop a
self-storage facility on the site, consisting of units varying in size from 5.5 acres --
or, excuse me, five-by-five feet to 38-by-52 feet, totaling 257,874 square feet.
Bear with me here.
De Weerd: Those look like the apartments.
Beach: Something happened when we pulled up the -- just a second. Sorry
about that. The applicant proposes to construct the facility in two phases, with
approximately 139,000 square feet of storage in the first phase and
approximately 119,000 square feet in the second phase. There is one concern
that the applicant has brought up in further discussion on -- was the -- the
property to the north, which was recently approved as a Citadel storage facility
was required to provide an emergency access in order to develop a portion of
their site and with a Public Works condition to loop water through both
developments. The applicant shall provide an emergency access and utility
easement from the cross-access through the subject property out North Ten Mile
Road. The applicant shall coordinate with the adjac ent property owner and with
the Public Works Department on the location of that required easement. I
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 27 of 86
believe the applicant will be discussing that a little bit further. The Commission
did recommend approval. Summary of the Commission public hearing were the
applicant Craig Callaham in favor. There were none in opposition. None
commenting. Did not receive any written testimony. I was the staff that
presented the application. There were no other staff that made comment. As I
said, there were no public testimony, so no key issues of public testimony.
Discussion by the Commission was, as I said, whether or not an emergency
access would be required to the parcel for the adjacent business. The
Commission did not change any of the recommendations, so, as I said, the only
outstanding issue before Council is the condition that the applicant provide an
emergency access through their development. I will stand for any questions you
have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Does the applicant want to make comment? Good evening.
Butler: Good evening. Thank you. Joann Butler. 251 East Front Street in
Boise, representing the applicant and who is with me tonight is Craig Callaham,
who is the engineer on this project as well. We are very pleased with the
recommendation that Planning and Zoning Commission made to approve the
approval -- or approve the project. We did write to the Council. We are asking
only that Council delete a particular condition to make this approval consistent
with your other approvals of storage facilities around Meridian and also to make
the approval of this site consistent with the approval of the property immediately
north. Immediately north of this site is Citadel self storage. They were required
-- or they have a condition of approval that stated that if they developed as a self -
storage facility that there would not be cross-access between the two -- between
any other properties and the reason for that was their concern for safety and
security of their tenants' property. So, we are asking to be treated just like that.
We have two entrances to our facility, so we have a primary access and
secondary access. Citadel Storage also has two accesses into their facility. So,
I think there is some confusion about -- most certainly our -- every application
stands on its own, every property stands on its own and we wouldn't be providing
emergency access for another facility, so -- or another property and so all we are
asking is that we avoid any confusion and delete the particular condition that
seemed to say that we had to provide another property owner with emergency
access. Craig Callaham can answer the questions that you might have with
regard to looping the water, because that will happen. That is underground and
that will happen and I know that he's been working with Public Works to identify
exactly how that's designed and the location of that. So, as far as underground
utilities, those connections will happen. But with regard to some kind of cross-
access between the two properties, we are very concerned about security and
we clearly don't need the cross-access or emergency access going any other
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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way but from Ten Mile into our property. I hope -- that sounds a little confusing,
so, please, ask me any questions and I might clarify that. So, again, we are just
asking for the deletion of one condition, 1.1.1.C.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. No questions.
Butler: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: This is the public hearing part. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We had -- I believe it's Karoly Foldesi signed
up and favor of the project and wished to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state
your name and address for the record.
Foldesi: Karoly Foldesi. Address is 3915 North Ten Mile Road.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Foldesi: Yeah. I have a -- we have an issue over here. I mean I have issue with
the people over here next -- this next storage. They have been -- they come first
time when I met the owner and his brother and they start telling me how they are
going to build the units and I have animals, you know -- I still, because I'm still in
the county and so he's telling me that he is going to use his building as a fence,
you now, he don't -- he was not, because I told him that I have to have a fence
over here -- put a fence up or -- no, he says, I'm not going -- we don't have to put
no fence over here and I don't think the drive -- because I have animals and if
they go over and right now where there are slabs what they put with their space
over -- they over too close to -- about three yards or so, is it -- and our animals
they could --
Donoso: Could I clarify something? I’m his wife. My name is Virginia Donoso.
He is referencing to the new storage facility that is being built next to our house.
Foldesi: Yeah.
Donoso: Citadel. So, he's referring to that -- to the --
Foldesi: Yeah. But right now I -- reason I wanted to brung this right of way out
so you are aware of it that I don't agree with this one that -- without fence it
should not be allowed to -- to do this one for me. Now -- but over there it's still
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July 25, 2017
Page 29 of 86
not completely, you know, paid off, but I -- he cannot -- my understanding was
that the gentleman -- they just want to cut through over there to use the back side
property as emergency exit. Now, I had a question on this one. How could they
approve to something and -- because he said it was approved already was
approved already and now all of a sudden is -- we have issue over there with that
emergency exit over there and I don't think that's right and he -- according to him
he is not willing to even pay for that property what he want to use and you cannot
just come in there and take over, but he still -- until it's not completely paid off it's
still part of my property, you know. So, he -- you cannot just coming in and say I
want to -- I need a road over here, you know. So, I don't think this is right.
De Weerd: Well, thank you for joining us tonight and sharing your concerns.
Foldesi: Yeah. So, very concerned about the fence. That's what I am.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Foldesi: And I -- thank you.
De Weerd: Any questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us.
Coles: Virginia Donoso was the only other individual to sign up.
De Weerd: Okay.
Coles: She did indicate no.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Do we not usually require fencing around storage units?
De Weerd: Josh.
Beach: We do and they are proposing that, so -- if I could, can I -- can I show
you --
De Weerd: Yes, please.
Beach: -- first where he lives, so you know where we are referring to. So, this is
the Foldesi property right here, just -- just east of and up against Ten Mile Road.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 30 of 86
I believe he's referring to Ten Mile Road. I believe he's referring to the barrier
that will be -- or the wall that will be -- there is a -- they are proposing to do some
sort of a landscape buffer and, then, in this area here I believe he mentioned as
well -- as you can see that is an ingress and egress and utility easement, so
the -- that's where the water will be looped out to Ten Mile Road through that
area and that was also going to serve as an emergency access. So, that
easement is already in place.
De Weerd: And that easement is in place on his -- on his property?
Beach: And my understanding was that this -- these used to be one parcel that
were -- part of this was sold and maybe Mr. Foldesi can -- can clarify that, but
they sold the back part off to Stor-It to expand their storage business. Stor-It
currently has an operation just on the parcel south of this and this is just an
expansion of an existing operation.
De Weerd: Can you maybe show us where -- so, there is already a storage
facility out there.
Beach: I can show you a map, Madam Mayor. As you can see on t he map here
this is the wastewater treatment facility here. This is the existing Stor-It facility.
This is the area that covers the application this evening, up until about right there.
This is the Foldesi property and Warren just indicated to me he believes that the
fence they are talking about is on the north side. That fence is part of the Citadel
storage project and not part of what we are reviewing this evening.
De Weerd: Okay. That was helpful. We are not talking about that project
tonight.
Beach: If you'd like to see that I'm happy to pull that plan up for you. I have it on
my computer. Stor-It --
De Weerd: No. I think we need to --
Beach: What we are talking about, yeah.
De Weerd: Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that offer, but I think we need to keep
it -- so, then, how do you get back to this facility with that easement that you
showed?
Beach: How would you -- Madam Mayor, how would you get to this facility?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Beach: They have an existing access point down here for their -- for their
existing Stor-It and that will --
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 31 of 86
De Weerd: And they have an emergency at that --
Beach: -- circulate up to here and that will just be an emergency exit.
De Weerd: Oh.
Beach: There is an existing access point to Ten Mile Road.
De Weerd: So, this is just an expansion of the current facility?
Beach: You got it.
De Weerd: Thank you. But now I don't understand the access. I do understand
that -- like the most recent one we approved had to have an emergenc y access.
We are asking that of this one and that access --
Beach: Correct. So, this is the main access point for the existing Stor -It
facility --
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Beach: -- and they will be able to utilize this area to get up to their expansion up
here. Fire is requiring them to have another emergency access. I think what you
are referring to, Madam Mayor, is the condition we have placed on them for the
Citadel storage to be able to utilize emergency access for the --
De Weerd: Oh.
Beach: -- for them to get out to Ten Mile Road.
De Weerd: Okay.
Beach: That's an exact -- what -- the condition kind of lines up with where the
water will loop out and as you -- as Mrs. Butler indicated, she's okay with the
water being looped, but they are not necessarily okay with the emergency access
from the Citadel storage going through their facility to get out to Ten Mile Road.
De Weerd: Okay. I think I am finally tracking you, so -- yes.
Callaham: Hi. I'm Craig Callaham with Quadrant Consulting. 1904 West
Overland, Boise, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
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July 25, 2017
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Callaham: I would be happy to clear up any of these site plan questions that you
might have if I could. This is an existing storage unit -- and I can't find the mouse
that -- it has an entry on the southern part of it and it currently has an emergency
exit that's paved out on the north side of it. We are planning on adding this
portion of the storage unit onto that, utilizing those two entryways, so there is no
-- there is no emergency exit on Mr. Foldesi's property in addition to that that's
already existing on the existing storage unit and we have a 40 foot buffer planned
in between Mr. Foldesi's property line and our first storage unit, so that -- he's got
a garden there right now and we are hoping to be able to let him use as much of
that area as possible and like they were saying, the fence line that he is
concerned with on the north side of the property line, the Citadel -- Citadel's
property, so --
De Weerd: But you will be putting in a fence from your property?
Callaham: If we put in a fence on the property line that would negate him using
that 40 foot buffer that he currently has as a garden, so we are -- we are hoping
to be able to allow him to use as much of that garden space as -- as he wishes
and, then, the back of the building would be the security fence.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Does that concession qualify as -- isn't there a 25 foot landscape buffer
adjacent to residential uses? Would that garden be the landscape buffer?
Beach: As long as it meets the standards in the UDC. We will have to look at
that to make sure that it does. So, I think -- the applicant still has to provide that.
So just because there is a garden there doesn't necessarily mean they don't
have to provide a buffer, because this could be sold to anybody to do any other
type of business there and we have to -- we have to buffer the residential use.
Absolutely.
Callaham: I believe that buffer is five feet -- or it's 20 feet. I'm sorry. And so,
then, we are trying to give them an extra 20 feet there to the property line.
Borton: Yeah. So, Madam Mayor, I'm not sure I have my head around that. I
get the intention, but how -- if the condition -- I think it's 25 feet and how you
comply with the 25 foot landscape buffer in a manner that doesn't destroy the
garden that you're trying to preserve -- I don't know how that happens. But -- so
that's one question. The other question -- and, Josh, maybe you can mark it.
You made reference, which I appreciate, to the existing access on Ten Mile and,
then, the existing emergency access that already exists. Can you mark that?
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July 25, 2017
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Beach: Go back to the map. Sure.
Borton: Which is why there wasn't a necessity for a --
Beach: Correct.
Borton: -- second emergency access to the north.
Callaham: That was a condition for the first storage unit that went in . So, it's
already got both its main access and its emergency access and so, then, this is
just an extension of that same project, using those two existing --
Beach: Do you see the hand here? This is the existing emergency access --
Borton: Okay.
Beach: -- and the main access is here.
Borton: Perfect.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, just --
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Josh, just -- I think you went over this -- in fact, I know you did, but I
just can't remember. The Citadel Storage has its own emergency access as well.
Beach: So no.
Cavener: Okay.
Beach: Part of their -- part of their project was -- they have -- their project is split
into two phases. The fire department was agreeable to them developing the first
phase with a certain amount of square footage, but the second phase was not
able to be developed until they obtained an emergency access. So, staff's -- staff
was hoping that the applicants would work together and I understand why there
is competition there, they are both the same -- the same use to -- the emergency
access for that second phase. The Conger Group will have to work to figure that
out on their own.
Cavener: So, then, Madam Mayor --
Beach: They have not agreed to do that tonight.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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Cavener: I guess question, then, for the applicant. Emergency access, pretty
big deal. Can you share with me why the opposition to providing emergency
access?
Callaham: We already have access for emergency, so it's not a problem for us,
because it's already there for us, and Citadel hasn't approached the owner about
providing an access for them.
Cavener: Okay.
Butler: I'm Joann Butler. That is a very big concern. These -- these storage
units are rented out by other private individuals and we have to provide security
for that site. That's exactly why Citadel has a -- the city did discuss trying to get
Citadel to provide cross-access to -- either to the north or to the south and
Citadel was successful in discussing with the city and getting their condition of
approval changed to say that they would only provide access -- cross-access to
other properties if their site did not develop as a storage facility and so -- and the
reason they got that condition of approval was because they were very
concerned about security as well and so they did not want to provide cross -
access into their site if they developed as a storage facility and the issue is true
for Stor-It as well and so that's why they cannot provide cross-access to another
private property.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council? Any other testimony?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing no more, I would move that we close the public hearing on H-2017-
0071.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those
in favor say aye. Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve H-2017-0071 and include all staff, applicant and public
testimony.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve 9-E. Did you want to
provide clarification on 1.1.1.C?
Bird: The cross-access?
De Weerd: Yes. The emergency --
Bird: No. I believe that we are on this application and the previous application
didn't want to do it, so I don't believe we should tie these people's hands to it
either.
Milam: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Any discussion? Mr. Borton.
Borton: Madam Mayor. If a head nod is appropriate, if -- if the -- what was just
said -- is the removal of 1.1.1.C -- a complete removal of that condition doesn't
negate the existing condition on the looping water; correct? That was a
redundant reference? Sorry. I just wanted to be clear.
Beach: Let me pull that up. I want to make sure we are not sideways, too.
Borton: Yes.
Beach: It is not necessary and the loop is still required. Yes.
Borton: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Okay. If there is no further discussion, Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Thank you.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
F. Public Hearing for Proposed Fall 2017 Fee Schedule of
the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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1. Resolution No. 17-2021: A Resolution Adopting the
Fall 2017 Fee Schedule of the Meridian Parks and
Recreation Department; Authorizing the Meridian
Parks and Recreation Department to Collect Such
Fees; and Providing an Effective Date
De Weerd: Okay. Item 9-F is a public hearing for our fee schedule -- 2017 fee
schedule. We have Jake here. Hi, Jake. Let's talk recreation.
Garo: Let's talk. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Sprint to
the fall is here. Our fall activity guide is currently in production. We will get it
back from the Press Tribune -- well, it's been back. It's currently in the hands of
instructors chopping it up, going through edits, but that will be in the mail on
August 11th, with fall classes beginning September 4th and just stand here
before you this evening to approve the new class fee schedule for 2017 fall.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Just curious. Anything new and exciting to share?
Garo: Good thing is is there is a lot of interest with -- with our -- at the community
center with the time slots in the morning and the time slots in the evening full with
current instructors. They keep coming back each year, so it makes it difficult for
new instructors to find times that are available to offer programs for the youth in
the evenings. We have got -- we have got a number of times slots open during
the day, but that -- you know, obviously, when school is in session that lends
itself difficult to program for youth, but, yeah, with -- with Home Court coming on
board I think that we can expand our p rograms, plus the additional space over
there once we get to obtain that space, but currently now there is -- everybody is
on board that's been with us and looking to expand once we -- we get more
space for sure.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: Any other questions for Jake? Thank you.
Garo: All right. Thanks.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 37 of 86
De Weerd: This is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to provide
testimony on this? Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Seeing no one is here to testify, I move we close the public hearing on
the purposed fall 2017 fee schedule.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item --
Cavener: Close the public hearing.
De Weerd: Close the public hearing. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: F-1 is Resolution 17-2021. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve Resolution 17-2021 adopting the fall 2017 fee
schedule.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9 -F-1. Any
discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
G. (Originally 9E) Public Hearing for Community
Development Block Grant (CDBG) Program Five-Year
Consolidated Plan 2017-2021 and Program Year
2017 Action Plan
De Weerd: Item 9-G is a public hearing for our CDBG and I will turn this over to
Chris.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 38 of 86
Pope: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, great to be in front of you again
this evening. So, going forward today we are going to talk about -- and open the
public hearing here for the 2017 to 2021 consolidated plan and the 2017 action
plan for the Community Development Block Grant program for the city. There
has been a public comment period that's been going on for the last month or so.
It began on June 23rd that we have been taking public comment since then and
culminating in this meeting here today. Just a quick overview for -- to remind you
all of what we are proposing and what we are talking about today and also for
anybody who doesn't know what we are talking about, just some information.
HUD, as part of our participation in the Community Development Block Grant
entitlement program -- sorry -- the US Department of Housing and Urban
Development at the federal level requires the city to do a five year consolidated
plan that outlines the city's community development priorities, needs, and goals
every five years. In addition to that every year we go through an action planning
process that talks about how we utilize the funds that we are being given. As
part of this consolidated plan that we went through this year, this process, we
utilized input from many different partners, stakeholders in the community, and
citizens to come up with some needs, priorities, and goals that I want to briefly
present. Here in front of you are the -- are the main high priority needs that we
have identified for the next five years in the community in terms of community
development. So, improvements and the economic stability for residents who
are low income and others -- and other residents, particularly those who are
fleeing domestic violence and those individuals who have special needs . In
addition to that, homeownership opportunities for lower to moderate income
residents. I don't think there is anything more that needs to be said about the
housing market right now in our community and the housing needs that exist
here. In addition to that, rental assistance and affordable rental units are a very
high priority and a high need for us here. In addition to the ability to improve the
weatherization and rehabilitation of our housing stock. Increasing the
accessibility of the community, both in terms of sidewalks, public facilities,
infrastructures, and ADA improvements as necessary and also the promotion
and the incentivization of fair housing practice and affordable housing
development here in the community. All of these have been -- have been listed
as high priority needs in the consolidated plan. As a consequence of those we
have some high priorities and the goals associated with those that we are looking
at and presenting to you and we are asking over the next five years that the city
make it a priority to support projects that are aimed at improving the accessibility
of our public facilities. Also supporting down payment assistance and
homeownership counseling programs. Exploring home rehab programs.
Supporting social service organizations and programs that benefit the low income
residents of our community. Exploring the opportunities to support those who are
fleeing domestic violence and working regionally to improve our transportation
options -- options for the residents here. As a consequence of this we are -- as a
consequence of this five year plan every year we have to come up with an action
plan that, in essence, tries to meet the goals and address the priorities and
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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needs that are listed in that con plan . What we have here for the 2017 action
plan is a list of the projects and activities that we are recommending to you all
and to the public for funding, utilizing the CDBG entitlement grant that we are
getting from HUD for this next year. That grant in total is 349,075 dollars, which,
as I mentioned previously, is a reduction of about 15,000 dollars in our overall
grant entitlement from the previous year, but with that the -- the projects that are
in front of you are -- their allocations are listed here. The program administration
for housing activities we are recommending that it be funded at 69,826 dollars.
The sidewalk construction project, which will take place in one of the low to
moderate income areas of the community, being headed by Meridian
Development Corporation, being funded at 147,000 dollars. Again, this is phase
one of that construction project. In the future -- and hopefully in the next program
year -- more funding will be needed to complete that project. Funding the
Meridian Food Bank at 40,000 dollars for this next year to provide hunger relief
programs to our residents. Ten thousand dollars to the youth scholarship
program at the Boys and Girls Club of Ada county, in addition to 2,250 dollars to
Jessie Tree for their services with emergency rental assistance for those who are
facing eviction. And in addition to that some home buyers assistance programs
for Neighbor Works Boise and, then, the Ada Boise Housing Authority coming out
to 30,000 dollars for Neighbor Works Boise and, then, another 50 for the Housing
Authority. So, this is kind of what we are presenting to you today. This is the big
highlights of our plans. The consolidated and actions together came out to be
200 or more pages. There is a lot of stuff that's in it in terms of the details of the
particular state of things in our community, but these are kind of the high level
recommendations that we are making to you all today. As I mentioned
previously, the public comment periods have been going on for about a week --
sorry -- month and to this day we have received no written public comments, nor
any oral public comments. However, there have been some internal comment
that have been received just within those who work with this program about some
-- some of the administrative constraints that we put on ourselves. In prior
consolidated plans there was just some suggestions on adjusting those. So,
there will be revisions to the plans that have been presented coming forth
regarding those. You will have a full rundown of what those changes will be .
Mostly they are going to be looking at where we are putting our public notices,
where the federal government requires us to publish public notices for events like
this. The public review process has been going on -- again the 23rd is when that
public commentary period started. There have been public notices that were put
in both the Idaho Statesman and the Idaho Press Tribune on the 28th, 30th and
the 11th of both June and July. The public presentation two weeks ago of this
plan and today we are asking that you open a public hearing. Based on the
comments that I will receive today we will make revisions to the plan as
necessary and to come back to you on August 8th in workshop for the adoption
of both of these plans. Our intention is to get all the information to you as quickly
as possible, to take any comments you may have with the revision, so that we
can get that onto the Consent Agenda for that meeting. I want -- I would make
that clear that we are not asking you to adopt these plans today . But with that I'd
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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like to take any questions and ask you -- invite you to open the public hearing for
public comment and, then, accordingly, again, just a reminder, we will do
revisions and bring this fact to you on the Consent Agenda in two weeks. Any
questions?
De Weerd: Thank you, Chris. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question and a comment. First comment. Chris, my apologies, you
reached out to me multiple times to connect and I failed multiple times over , so I
appreciate your patience and my apologies for no t making our meeting. Give me
a sense of -- sure, a lot of national rhetoric about federal dollars and turning them
back, so if -- hypothetical situation. Council decides we don't want to take these
dollars. We don't want to do any of the projects with them. What happens to the
money?
Pope: Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, as long as this program is
around at the federal level that money will go to another community. We can --
it's not abnormal for a community to choose not to participate as an entitlement
community in these programs, particularly with HUD, but, essentially, Meridian
leaving the pool will allow that money to be put into another community who will
utilize it and that's a decision you guys would have to make . But there is -- there
is a lot of questions about whether or not this is effective -- at the federal level
right now questions about whether or not CDBG has truly made an impact. I
would through -- I would testify publicly that through both my time here and
working in Pittsburgh on these project they definitely do make an impact in the
community and in the lives of the people and I would never suggest that you
guys should not be a part of this program, but in terms of I guess getting back to
your question, turning down this opportunity in terms of utilizing these funds in
Meridian would just divert them to another community.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other --
Borton: Yeah. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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Borton: Was there -- was there risk when a community does that there is -- that
there is a certain claw back provisions from the federal government that could
require repayment of previously distributed proceeds?
Pope: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, in the short answer yes and in
short answer no. It entirely depends on the projects that are in play at the time .
So, for example, you recently approved a subrecipient agreement with Meridian
Development Corporation to begin the design of the LMI streetlight project, which
is in front of you now. At HUD level you cannot begin a design project and, then,
close it out until the construction is completed. So, if for whatever reason you
guys were to just get out of the program right now and not approve any of these
things, there is a high likelihood that the funding of 60,000 dollars that was
approved for design would need to be paid back and, then, I don't know the legal
implications of that, since we already have agreements for those. I don't know
what would happen in that case. But it really depends on the project. There is a
lot of flexibility that we have with what's on the table right now in terms of what
we are working on. We have a lot of in-house projects in particular, in-house
infrastructure and public facility projects with our streetlights going on, which
gives us a lot more flexibility of what we want to do, because we are under
contract with ourselves. But in other cases, some of the public service projects
that we have going on, we do make an agreement with them and, then,
depending on how that all goes out and what the break is like between us and
the federal government with this, would really depend on the claw back that we
might have to face.
Borton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Thank you, Chris. Is there any public
testimony on this? Yes, Ralph. Thank you for joining us. We always love to
have you here. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Chappell: Ralph Chappell. 1899 South Swan, Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Chappell: Now, this program here, it's all about wants versus needs. Now, I was
here in chambers when you did your -- your budget thing and you had some
items on that list that, okay, we are not going to cover that and you had some you
said, well, yeah, we can do that one, but let's cut the money down a little bit. So,
you came up with the list right there. Now, you went over the request, you
assessed it once, some were taken off the list, some had the dollar amount
reduced. What was not taken into account is where is that money coming from.
Simple. It's coming from the federal government, which is 20 trillion dollars in
debt. That's 20 by 12 zeros after it. That's a heck of a lot of money and it's going
up and up. The federal government doesn't have a budget. You guys do. They
just print more money and if that does not cover the demands, then, they borrow
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from a foreign country. Now, we as a city have a balanced budget. You as the
elected officials spend many hours on details -- and I sat here for -- your directors
come to you with projects they would like to spend money on. To your credit you
answer them where are you getting the money. Mr. Bird in particular was like
show me the money. They had to show how they were going to come up with
the money and if you were satisfied with their explanation you approved their
budget. The state of Idaho does the same thing, only with larger amounts than
the City of Meridian. Families do the same thing and they use a budget. So,
once they are given a priority and then -- and their needs. The needs are taking
a priority over the wants and the wants are given a priority and t he money is
saved to cover the want. Some use a credit card and they go deeper in debt.
The money you are considering from the federal government is put on a credit
account. That account now is at 23 trillion dollars and growing. This money for
CDBG is part of that debt. I do not know how many cities utilize this program to
cover items that should be covered with local funds. Where is it morally correct
to take this money and expect the future generations to pay for it ? It's -- morally
it's corrupt. The project uses tens of thousands of dollars just for administration
fees. My grandchildren, which are now three and six years old, they are going to
have to help pay for this and it's been used to pay for the wants of the City of
Meridian. The amounts of -- that you're asking -- you're asking for is 350,000
dollars. By the time they get older enough to start paying it's going to be in the
millions of dollars, all going to have to be paid by somebody somewhere.
De Weerd: Ralph, I need you to summarize.
Chappell: Oh, I'm going to summarize.
De Weerd: Okay. I need you to wrap up.
Chappell: I'm going to do that.
De Weerd: Okay.
Chappell: Since the inception of this thing in 1974 over 150 billion dollars has
been paid out. You guys went through a budget process and your CFO asked
you to take into consideration a three percent increase in property taxes. If you
go to people that give me my money and I ask them for three percent they will
say, sorry, buddy, you get what you got . That's it. The demographics here of the
city are changing. We are getting more and more senior citizens like myself. We
have a certain amount of money and that's -- that's it and now you are going to
come ask for 350,00 dollars. If you decide to app rove this grant, I'd like for each
of you to explain to the citizens of Meridian why you believe this approval to be
morally proper to place a monetary burden on our future. In regards to the view
that if we as the citizens of Meridian do not take this grant some other city will,
my response is let them explain to their citizens why they believe it is morally
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proper to burden their children and grandchildren with this debt and I am against
this thing all the way. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ralph.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I did not put him up to that. Thank you, Ralph. Yeah.
Thanks. If I could put on my citizen hat and maybe ask Chris a question. The
home buyer assistance programs, how do those work? Is it like grants for down
payment or how exactly do those function?
Pope: Madam Mayor, Council Member Palmer, yes, down payment, closing
costs, sometimes principal buy down assistance as well. It entirely depends.
There are -- there are income limits, obviously, on those who are applying and
whether or not they can be approved. In addition, there are also income -- or
there are price limits on the houses that can be purchased, so you wouldn't see
somebody who is low income trying to go and buy an 800,000 dollar house in
Meridian. Something -- we work with great partners who have all their
procedures and processes, particularly the Housing Authority, who is also kind of
a federal entity in a way -- do their best to make sure that those who are getting
assistance are getting the right amount of assistance, the right assistance in the
way that they need it, that won't burden them -- I would guess buying a property
that won't burden them, but will actually enhance their opportunity to thrive in the
community. But in terms of the money, where it's used and what it's used for, it,
essentially, most of the time is coming down to closing costs assista nce and
down payment assistance. But in addition to that, I do want to make it clear, it's
not just a handout, it's -- if you want a home you can come and get it. Both
programs -- both the Neighbor Works Boise and at the Housing Authority require
buy in. There are certain percentages that are proportions of down payments
and closing costs that have to be covered by the home buyer as well, so it's not
just a free kind of a home, it's -- you do have to buy in and have money saved
and -- particularly with Neighbor Works Boise, you have to go through a whole
home buy and credit counseling class before you can be approved. So, there is
a whole process that kind of goes along with that that is enable to educate and
enhance the opportunity of those who want to live in Meridian who maybe for
financial reasons just initially couldn't have.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Thank you, Chris. And in my -- again wearing my
citizen hat here and giving you some public testimony, so you will at least have
two for your records. In my -- my day job I underwrite car loans half my day as
they come in. I have got about a dozen that come in during the day. I haven't
looked at them, a promise to the citizens, but as we are doing that we look at
where their down payment is coming from. We -- we don't put as much weight
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towards our down payment consideration when it's a first time car buyer that has
no credit and their parents are giving them half of their down payment, because
it's -- it's not so much our equity position in the vehicle that we are interested in,
it's the -- the pain that it takes for that person to hand over a thousand dollars in
cash to get a -- to buy a 5,000 dollar car, to have their 20 percent. If they have
800 dollars from their parents and 200 dollars from the m, they can walk away
from that car and not think twice. So, I'm glad to hear that there is a lot of
consideration into making sure that people aren't getting into homes that they are
not going to be able to afford, but still there is that -- that psychological and pain
factor of handing over cash to have your down payment to take ownership in
what you're getting yourself into. I struggle with the -- with -- especially down
payment, but home buyer assistance programs. You know, I expressed that I
was going to be less opposed this year as in the previous year. The other
programs -- you know, I echo Ralph, but that aside, the other programs that I feel
are a better use of -- of the funds, but struggle again with those last year that
were on the list. That's my public comment.
Pope: Madam Mayor, Council Member -- if I may, Madam Mayor. Just a quick
comment on that. And I do kind of want to -- to provide some assurance that this
isn't -- particularly with the Neighbor Works grant of 30,000 dollars, isn't entirely a
federally funded thing. Neighbor Works Boise recently received a grant from
Wells Fargo in the amount of I think three or four million dollars for specifically
the same idea, to provide low income residents with assistance in purchasing a
home and it's a really great program, there is a lot of stipulations very similar to
this, but the conversations that we have had and the agreement we are hoping --
part of our agreement that we are hoping to have with these funds is that these --
this money here is also leveraged with some of the funds from the private
foundation, the private community, in order to kind of supplement and help more
people, but also it's more than just the federal government giving us money to
buy people houses, there is all sorts of individuals who are recognizing the
housing needs of the individuals here in Meridian and that the private sector, the
nonprofit sector, and the public sector are all coming together on this to try and
help meet those needs here. So, I would just kind of throw it out there that it's -- I
think this year in particular it's a little bit different than maybe we have gone --
gone about it before as part of the program -- the program with Neighbor Works
Boise and Wells Fargo, there is an even bigger buy in requirement than what is
usually required by these organizations in order to receive those funds and so
the ownership, that accountability aspect of it is enhanced a little bit more this
year than it has been previously.
De Weerd: This does open the public comment and it will be back on the agenda
on August 8th during our workshop for action.
Hood: Madam Mayor, I just wanted to comment -- and Chris can correct me if
I'm wrong, but I believe that this actually will close the public hearing and --
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De Weerd: Just close the public hearing.
Hood: -- any comments will be reflected in the document in the coming weeks
and it will be placed on -- any direction given you -- given by you to Chris tonight
will be the final action, anticipating your approval on the 8th of August. So, just
wanted to clarify that --
De Weerd: Thank you for that.
Hood: -- the public -- we are asking you to close the public hearing at the end of
-- as part of the meeting tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move that we close the public hearing on the CDBG five year
consolidated plan.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those
in favor say. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
H. (Originally 9-C) Approval of the Amended Revenues and
Expenditures for Fiscal Year 2017 in the Amount of
$116,445,331
De Weerd: Okay. You will see this back. Item 9-H is the item that you have in
front of you for the amended revenue and expenditures for fiscal year 2017.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the amended revenues and expenditures for fiscal year
2017 in the amount of 116,445,331 dollars and to bring back the proper
paperwork and also get the proper paperwork out to the public.
Milam: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-H. Any discussion?
Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
I. (Originally 9-D) Approval of the Tentative Proposed
Revenues and Expenditures for Fiscal Year 2018 in the
Amount of $154,853,276
De Weerd: Item 9-I is the approval of the tentative proposed revenues and
expenditures for fiscal year 2018 for publication.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the tentative proposed revenue and expenditures
for fiscal year 2018 in the amount of 154,853,276 dollars and to get all the
paperwork -- proper paperwork ready and get it out to the public --
Milam: Second.
Bird: -- ready for a public hearing.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
J. Request for Sewer Service at 1035 E. Fairview
De Weerd: Item 9-J is a request for sewer service at 1035 East Fairview and,
Caleb, are you going to introduce this?
Hood: Madam Mayor, I can by simply pulling up a map and letting you know you
have -- you have a request before you to hook up to city sewer in advance of
annexation or outside of the annexation process and we kind of talked about this
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today and it's a request of the -- you know, there is -- the requester is here and
so having them go first -- you do have memos in your packet from both the Public
Works and the Planning divisions, so if you would reference those. You also
have -- you should have a letter from the applicant in your packet as well and the
basis for their request. But with that, Madam Mayor, we would request,
essentially, the applicant kick this off while I blow up a map and get you kind of
oriented to the site.
De Weerd: Okay. Very good. Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state
your name and address to the record.
Clark: Yeah. Heath Clark. 251 East Front Street in Boise. I'm with the law firm
Spink Butler and I'm representing the property owner. A member of the
ownership group John Hager is here and we also have Mike Bevans with
Sodalicious and so you do have my letter from July 11th and what we would like
to discuss with the Council tonight is trying to find a practical solution to an issue
that we have run up against in terms of trying to make this property available to
Sodalicious for -- to lease. So, as Caleb is bringing that up, this property is a
postage stamp, we will call it, parcel. It's an enclave within the county. It's a long
time county property that's completely surrounded by city -- city property. As I
mentioned, we are trying to get a path forward to have Sodalicious be a tenant
that would involve adding a drive-thru to the property. There is three ways that
that could happen and in the past this property has developed with its various
uses with a sewer waiver that the city had -- had granted or notified the county
that -- that sewer was not available at the property and , therefore, the use was
changed and it was -- it was undertaken within the county's rules. That has
recently changed, because sewer is now available at the property. So, if it were
not available, a drive-thru use, such as Sodalicious, would be a permitted use in
the county, they could just simply apply for a master site plan and be underway.
That's changed, because the sewer is now at the property. So, the second way
that this could go forward would be to annex directly into the city at this time and
that would require an annexation application, obviously, and, then, it would also
require a conditional use permit, because the drive-thru use is not a straight
permitted use in the city, like it would be in the county. In addition that raises the
question of the billboard that's located on the property, which I'm sure we will be
talking quit at length about as we go through this process . So, finally, the third
way that we have identified and what -- and the reason that I'm here tonight is to
talk about a pre-annexation connection agreement and this is provided for in -- in
Meridian Code under Title 9, Section 9-4-26.8.3, and it allows the Council to
allow a property to connect to sewer prior to annexation with, quote, reasonable
conditions of granting the request. We have had a number of conversations with
staff to try to figure this out and the letter -- with the request that I provided to you
was the -- the culmination of all that. We are asking that the Council consider the
request and, then, direct staff to work with us to come up with conditions if this is
something that -- it's the Council's pleasure to instruct staff to pursue. So, that
that brings us to the question of the billboard and the billboard was put in about a
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year ago. It's a video billboard. It's very high quality. It was a significant
investment and the property I want to put it in , because they knew that -- that
there had been a billboard at the property years ago for a long time and it was a
permitted use in the county and that decision was made before this was a twinkle
in anyone's eye and so the county issued the permit , it's now there, the
investment has been made and so that was the reason that we suggested in the
agreement a couple of different ways to go at this. One would be that if the
billboard is taken down within ten years that we would initiate annexation
proceedings within 20 days of -- of taking it down. If the billboard does not come
down within the ten years -- we know everyone wants, you know, some sort of an
end -- end game on the agreement and so the suggestion was that if it doesn't
come down within those ten years it's probably not going to come down for the
foreseeable future, so the suggestion was that it would be -- it would come in as
a nonconforming use. Now, we have reviewed Mr. Hood's letter and we
appreciated the comments that he made and I did want to just provide you with a
little bit of response on those items, just so that you are aware of where we are.
With regard to working with Ada county to design the property in a way to meet
both city and county standards, we don't see an issue with that. We have tried to
look at them and see if they align . If we do identify any issues we would bring
that back to you. With regard to cross-access, we are happy to work on cross-
access, so long as it doesn’t prevent the use of the property as a drive-thru and,
then, so long as it doesn't result in a billboard -- in an issue with a billboard
remaining in its current location. So, what is the long -- the long and the short of
all of this? In broad terms we would like to invest the time and effort to bring in a
new tenant, to bring in a new business into the City of Meridian, someone -- a
business that we think everyone would like to have here . It's a great spot for
their proposed use. It's Fairview. It's about as drive-thru friendly as drive-thru
friendly gets. We would also like to have the connection to sewer , but, on the
other hand, we have a functioning drain field and the billboard is not something
that we feel like financially we can -- we can just simply walk away from. We
think there is room to find agreement, but we are -- and we are looking to have
this conversation with the Council to try to figure out a way -- a way forward.
With that I would like to give the opportunity to Mike Bevans with Sodalicious to
provide a couple of comments and, then, I would be more than happy to have a
conversation with the Council about what your thoughts might be and maybe
ways that we can try to sort this out. So, I will turn it over to Mike.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for being here. If you will state your name
and address for the record.
Bevans: Michael Bevans. I'm actually in Orem, Utah, at the moment. Thank
you, Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: That's all right. We won't hold it against you.
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Bevans: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of Council. I just wanted to
share a few words about the company that you are potentially getting here in the
community. We are a very community oriented company. We are family owned,
but are also very family friend -- family friendly -- family friendly. We have
provided jobs for anyone from the teenagers in the area , to the single moms, to
the college kids, to the established parents in our communities as well. In
addition to what we provide to the community, we are very community involved
and active in our donations back to the community. We sponsor many youth
sports programs in schools, as well as outside of schools. We sponsor a lot of
band groups and various sorts of fundraising for -- for community projects or for
special projects related to fallen firefighters and their families, those types of
events we get behind and we sponsor and we help provide donations for those
types of events. We are expanding into this area. We are not currently in Idaho.
This would be one of our first facilities -- one of our first locations, so we are very
excited about the community, we are very excited to be part of the community
and even, Madam Mayor, I know I'm living in Orem, Utah, but as soon as the first
stores open I'm actually bringing my family and we are relocating to the area as
well. So, that's our commitment to this business in this area and it's our
commitment to want to be part of the community. With that we are kind of in the
middle of this. We are -- our interest I believe are just the -- we want to open the
store, we want to start the business and offering our products to the community
here and be part of that. We hope with that -- that both the city and the
landowner, we can find some kind of a mutual agreement that is beneficial for
both sides and allows us to proceed with our plans in the near future and thank
you for your time, Madam Mayor and Members of Council.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Clark: So, I'm ready to be a pin cushion. So, if there are questions that the
Council has I'm more than happy to try to -- to try to answer them.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you, Heath. Mr. Bird.
Bird: When was billboard agreement enter into? Do you know?
Clark: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, the -- the billboard was constructed in
April of 2016 and it is owned by the property owner . It's not your typical situation
where it's leased out to an outdoor advertising business.
Bird: Yeah. I knew it was pretty new.
Clark: I would add to that, though, it's my understanding that there was a
billboard on the property prior and, then, it was gone for a little while and, then,
came back with --
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Bird: If my memory is right, that is about the location of the entry into the old
Meridian outdoor theater. That's probably what happened to the billboards.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Wow. That's a good memory.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I mean we have had
some internal discussions, as well as with Mr. Clark and his client. For the
Council members, the policy decision is really what we are here about. In the
past when properties have asked to either hook up to services they were not
annexable and so the decision point was simply that the services were available,
but they couldn't be annexed. This property is annexable, because it is
surrounded by the city. So, the policy decision would be different than previous
councils have had, which is your call. The -- the fourth option that Mr. Clark
didn't mention -- and he did say they have a working drain field. I mean in the
past the policy has been if the services are available, then, we can make them
available and, then, they would annex in the future. Here if you -- if you grant the
waiver, which is a different policy decision than you have made previously, they
can function and operate without the city services . They do have water, which
they have had for about 30 years, but they don't have sewer. So, it's really only
about sewer that we are talking about and if you look at Mr. Clark's letter, I mean
their offer is to annex into the city in ten years, but still leave the billboard. So,
that's a much different policy choice than you have made in other even recent
annexations and such. So, I just wanted to give you some background. I mean
-- and this is an unusual one, because normally it's either been the service is
available and they can't annex or they can annex and the service isn't available.
So, this is a little bit unusual in that regard, so I thought that might help.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Probably a question for staff. What -- if we were to do nothing, not allow
hook up to sewer, what businesses could operate in there still in the county as it
is? Just things that wouldn't necessarily need a hook up to sewer that would be
able to function properly on the septic as it exists?
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, that's probably a better question for
Mr. Clark. I don't know Ada county's code. I know in speaking with their staff
fairly briefly about this site and them questioning us, hey, are you going to issue
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the letter again granting the waiver and we are like, well, no, sewer is coming to
the property, so we -- we won't be issuing the letter this time. It's -- I would guess
-- I would venture a guess, just based on that conversation off their code --
because, again, I don't know their code very well at all -- any other similar
administrative offices, so a Payday loan type of a place I believe or title loan
company type of a place before, anything similar like that I believe could go in
administratively. It's the drive-thru use. It's still an administrative approval
through the county, but it is -- it's a new use still, because it's a drive-thru. So,
again, I don't know exactly how they classify those commercial businesses, but a
similar office retail type of user could still go in there I would venture a guess.
But, again, I would -- I would defer to the applicant, as I'm not -- I have had some
of those conversations with the county.
Clark: And Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, the -- the answer -- that's
correct. And the -- the point of all this is that when we -- when we started having
conversations with Sodalicious they needed to have a drive-thru, so that meant
changing use, which meant that the county had to reach out to the city and find
out if the sewer waiver was still available, which led us into this entire discussion.
If the waiver is not granted or if there is not an agreement, then, it -- functionally
what happens is you're -- you're locking the use into place, because the applicant
has a strong incentive to keep that billboard. So that means a light office, title
loan, whatever type of use that's very similar to the existing one is what you will
see there for the foreseeable future. What this does is that -- we are trying to find
a creative way to modify the use, bringing in something that we think is very
appropriate for Fairview given its transit nature, and a great user. So, that's what
we are trying to accomplish.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. And it's easy for us as government to overcomplicate
things, making them bigger issues than they are. Like Mr. Nary pointed out, it's
had water for 30 years. They are just asking to hook up the sewer now that it's
available, thanks to the property to the east, and the county has asked us to try
to start annexing these enclaves, but they have ignored our requests that if -- if
they want us to do that to stop allowing things, such as billboards, in -- on those
properties. They chose to do that, then, I think they need to stay the responsible
party over the property. But we have an opportunity to bring in a very community
minded employer to fill the property, take care of the weed infested area that it is,
pave over the existing gravel, hook it up to sewer and, then, he will have the
incentive to start working on over time, the property owners, to work out a
resolution to the billboard issue. So, that eventually they could come in and be
annexed and go through the normal process of being within the city. But in the
meantime I think it's appropriate that they hookup to sewer, complete the water
and sewer hookup, so -- to the services that we provide and open a business,
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start employing some people and providing a service for us and continue on in
the county for now.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, is this -- is this the only piece of -- parcel that the owner has or is
there -- is there more? Does the same owner own multiple parcels within that
section? Are we going to see more billboards going up I guess is really what I'm
looking for.
Clark: The answer is yes.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Hager: Yeah. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Jonathan
Hager. I live at 3664 North Summer Park Place here in Meridian. I'm a minority
owner in the property. Alturas is -- Alturas Capital is represented by Heath -- is
the majority owner and so I am here because they were unavailable. We don't
own any other properties in this area, neither myself nor Alturas are in the
outdoor advertising business. We are in the real estate investment business.
We picked up this property at a foreclosure auction back in 2011 during the
downturn and, honestly, the only reason there is a billboard there is because
there was one when we purchased it. It came down, because the owner of it had
-- was unwilling to honor the agreement that existed when we purc hased
property in foreclosure and so he elected to take it down, rather than continue in
his obligation to pay us a portion of what the rents were and so this is the only
billboard we operate. As you are all aware of the code, you know, the -- I know
Alturas has other land holdings and property holdings in Meridian, but if they are
already annexed into the city, billboards aren't allowed and so we are -- we are
not in the business to go out and find more billboards and this is the only piece
we own on Fairview. Is that --
Milam: Yeah. Thank you.
Hager: Okay.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Milam: So, why not -- so, why not just annex the property now with an
agreement to take down the billboard in ten years?
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Clark: Madam Mayor, Councilman Milam, the -- we are certainly open to
considering, you know, various alternatives. What we have proposed is based in
the code where it allows for the sewer to be connected now, annexation in a
future date, whereas they general -- they tend to align. If the -- if the Council
wants to look at an annexation with the -- with the billboard coming in now, you
know, we are, obviously, open to considering different alternatives, but what we
are not comfortable doing at this point is committing to a specific time frame for
taking down the billboard, because the -- the financial hit is just, frankly, too
severe. It's -- it's an enormous financial loss to take down that billboard.
Milam: In ten years?
Clark: In -- in a matter of a few years the billboard will be paid for and it's -- and
that is a revenue stream that is really difficult to -- to give up.
De Weerd: So, there is -- there is no interest in saying in ten, 20 years we feel
we have -- we have hit that mark that it makes it reasonable -- I mean you knew it
was a nonconforming use when you put it in and you 're surrounded on all sides
by the city, so you are, essentially, benefiting from being in the city and not in the
country, but you can't come up with some kind of a -- an offer to the city to say
we believe that this amount of time seems to -- to fit a business plan.
Clark: Madam Mayor, if I may, the -- the -- and this is just a technicality, so take
it for what it's worth, but when the owners put the proper -- put the billboard in it
was not a nonconforming use, it was a permitted use. This is county property
today, so -- and there was no discussion at that point that that was likely to
change, except for with a forced annexation. At this point the -- it's an extremely
valuable element of the property. The property is a postage stamp. It's very
small and much of the revenue that is associated with that property comes from
that billboard and so at this point the property owner is not prepared to mak e a
commitment as to a specific amount of time to take that down, because it's
something that could be -- even as a nonconforming use if it were to become
one, you know, the parts of that sign could be replaced under the existing
Meridian City Code, for example, to allow it to continue. So, it's -- what we are
looking to do here is not to disrespect the city, you know, we are not trying to
thumb our noses at any of the rules here, what we are trying to do is to -- to
make the best of a -- of a difficult situation, so that we can help bring in a new
business on this property.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. So, we have got a couple opportunities here. One,
again, is to send that message to the county that, you know, the property owner
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doesn't want to remove the billboard, we are not going to annex it and you're
responsible for the emergency services, whatnot -- not? Getting a head shake.
Lavey: Madam Mayor? So, we are not opposed to this, but just -- let's put reality
into this. You're surrounded by the city. We respond there.
Clark: Sure.
Lavey: We respond to all emergencies there and we deal with all emergencies
there. If it's a simple report, we will probably even take a courtesy report instead
of having a county deputy come take that report. If we really wanted to be
sticklers we could say, yes, it is the county, you have to call the county to file that
theft report or something. So, we already do that. We already handle that. The
other thing on code enforcement. If you don't annex it we don't control any of --
or have any authority to do code enforcement issues. I would assume that with
the new business coming in that there would be less code enforcement issues
than there are now, but you won't have any control whatsoever if it remains
county as far as code enforcement issues that may come up in the future. They
are kind of asking for the cake and eating it, too. You know, if -- if you're going to
ask for sewer, you got every city benefit already, you're just not paying for some
of it. So, it's -- it's a judgment thing on your part. But we are already covering --
fire responds out there. We already respond out there. There is not much they
are not getting.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Then that being the case, that doesn't change whether we annex it or
not or allow Sodalicious to come in or not, we are still taking care of it. If it stays
there or with -- I mean we would hope, I guess, then, without the code
enforcement being our responsibility, that the -- the improvements that would
take place from an existing business operating there would certainly -- I can't
imagine it being worse than as it sits right now with the weeds growing like crazy
and not being occupied. So, then, the other opportunity we have again is to -- to
have an organization come in, employ people, they are going to clean up the
property, I imagine that we would be able to set some requirements with an
agreement to -- for landscaping and whatnot at least initially if we wouldn't
necessarily, I don't know, be able to enforce it codewise later, to then be able to
hook up and gain those services for the sewer or we can let it sit as it is.
Regardless the billboard stays. We lucked out in our agreement or situation
down the street with Maverik in that we got end dates on the billboards. That's
not going to happen here. We are not going to have an end date. So, no matter
what, those billboards are going to be there. So, we are going to have the
billboards and weeds and title loan signs and maybe they will change out on
occasion as other office size tenants come in or we can have a company come
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in, pave over the gravel, hook up to sewer, clean up the weeds, operate a
business, maintain the property, employ people and still have the billboard. It's
-- it's a no brainer to me. I mean we are tasked with making the city -- and, yes,
we have policy, but that's why this meeting exists, that's why we are here,
because we have the authority to override the policy and make the decision that's
in the best interest of the city and to me the best inter est of the city is have
another employer and clean up the property. The billboard is there no matter
what. We don't have to annex it now, but, then, there is a tenant that has it -- we
would hope he wouldn't want the billboard there and, then, he can spend the
time, hopefully, trying to work with the property owner to make it go away so we
can annex them in, but in the meantime which one do we want there for now.
De Weerd: I guess, Council, you're kind of posed to -- you have two different
options of going against policy. You have an option of cleaning up the property
and having it annexed in, getting rid of an enclave and in dealing with the -- the
nonconforming use of a billboard that has no end date or you're going to go
against the policy of extending sewer to a property without the requirement of
annexation. So, I think in -- in terms of cleaning that area up and, you know, I --
it's -- it's interesting to have the property owners stand here and say this is a
money maker, but we are not going to take care of the property, which is kind of
sad. But I do think that the proposal in front is to -- to clean it up and I think that
the business owner has -- has said he would like to clean it up, he would like to
put it into use and in doing so you're approving annexing a property to get it
cleaned up with the use that's not conforming, but it's a better use.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I'm pro business, I would love to see the business come in, I would love
to see this develop, cleaned up, whatever. I would like to see it annexed now
and I think you can come up with an end date. I think -- I think you can. I mean
you can pick a date -- we can't make decisions for generations beyond us -- I
mean we do that, but we try not to and I think that you're putting us between a
rock and a hard place and I really think that you can come up with a date and we
want to work with you, we want to make this work, but it's going to take a little bit
of give and a little bit of take. And, yes, it's a money maker and, like you said, in
a couple years it's paid off and, then, the money is just pouring in. Well, you
need to have a cutoff date for that. Keep the billboard and move it -- find a
different property somewhere else and put it there. It could still be a money
maker for you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: I would hope that we as a Council wouldn't tell a business owner how
much or how little profit they are able to make on their property with their
business. Sir, good for you. You have got a great business model and a great
location and you're entitled to make as much money as you can on your
investment. You have invested a lot of your value into that facility. Likewise, I
say this time and time again, we are a community of value and the values that we
bring -- values that the property owner is, quite frankly, able and eligible to take
advantage of, is important to me and I have pounded this table hard enough just
a little over a year ago saying look at the precedent that we are going to set when
we set a timeline for businesses to annex outside of the county with billboards
into Meridian and ten years I was flabbergasted that this Council was open to
that idea. Ten years. But we are here today is that the value of our community
isn't worth it for this applicant to put a timeline and that's fine, it's your business
and you're reaping the value. Likewise we as a community of value can say we
are going to hold up to our values and one of the values we are not going to
permit billboards in our community. So, I appreciate your business and I
appreciate the -- the tenant that you would want to bring in, but what we are
asked to make as a decision tonight that impacts a property owner to bring in a
potential tenant. Now, I would hope that Sodalicious is in Meridian for
generations to come, but we don't know that. So, I struggle that we are making a
decision, abandoning our values to allow for a tenant to come in , while very very
valuable, but to abandon our values for that. To me it seems like a huge misstep
for this Council. So, I'm opposed.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any more questions for the applicant, the -- the
potential of business that is interested in locating there?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: It looks like Mr. Bevans might want to comment further.
De Weerd: If you will just restate your name for the record.
Bevans: Michael Bevans.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bevans: Madam Mayor, with your permission would it -- could I ask Councilman
Cavener a question?
De Weerd: Yes.
Bevans: Is that -- would you be open to allowing the property owner to have the
waiver and let them just operate and let them change the use and drive-thru and
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stay in the county then? Would that be something of interest to you? I'm -- and
my interest here is can we find a middle ground here and I see your point of view,
I appreciate it, I appreciate the values you're standing behind as a Council and I
get that. With that statement what about a waiver to say we will let the waiver go,
we will let you run in the county and you operate whatever the county allows you
to do.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I would think generally I would be supportive of that.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And, Mike, do you mean not hooking up to sewer, just saying, yeah, we
are still good with you, but we are not hooking up?
Clark: I think that was some of the concern is not providing that service and not
being able to -- I mean I get you lose the carrot, right? You lose that carrot to
bring them in under your conditions, so maybe say, okay, well, it's not a permitted
use, it's not a nonconforming, and continue to operate in the county, we will give
the waiver to let you do that. I mean I'm not -- I shouldn't speak for the landlord, I
guess I'm just trying to find some middle ground here and John might be able to
say if that's something that they would go for. I think it would.
De Weerd: And I guess that's just trading one value for another. We are trying
to clean up these enclaves and where there is the opportunity to -- to clean up
the septic systems in our community and -- by hooking up, it makes more sense
environmentally, it is a policy, just like it's a policy to -- when you hook up you
need to annex within 60 days. So, there is no compelling -- we have in the past
provided a waiver, but usually there is a specific reason that is cited. This would
have no other reason other than we don't want to annex in a piece of property
and an undesired billboard when you have an opportunity to hook up , clean up,
and deal with the billboard.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Then maybe we will try a few things and see where we get to where
maybe there ends up being a majority in favor of something. Because I think that
we -- if -- if he is going to be able to move in there -- I mean even, you know, with
the septic, I think, again, for the safety of the -- the sanitary factor that we still get
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a better benefit if he's hooked up to -- to our sewer services. So, let's try that and
see how that goes. I move we approve the request to hook up to the sewer
services and remain in the county with no end date to the billboard, but that an
application to annex be filed or applied for, whatever the lingo, within 60 days of
the billboard coming down, whenever that might be.
De Weerd: Do I have a second? Or perhaps another intent. Or another try.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And maybe procedurally I -- because it -- I believe it's -- it's yourself or a
staff level decision to -- are you comfortable with us making the decision to allow
it -- to continue the waiver or is that -- should that be done here?
De Weerd: Continue to waiver --
Palmer: To allow the waiver to not have -- not connect to the sewer, but continue
operating in the county with whatever they might approve.
De Weerd: And have it look -- continue to look the way it looks, because we
have no code enforcement authority for that?
Borton: Madam Mayor? I think what I hear you saying --
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: The question before us isn't a waiver of the obligation to hookup, which
would allow you, then, to continue to operate in the county. That request isn't
today. The request today is a request to hook up to the city sewer absent an
annexation. I think the first part is what you were saying if we had authority to
do, but that's not the request before us. I think.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, you're correct, their request is
either to hook up to the city with an agreement that would not have an end date
to the billboard and annex in the future and not annex now, so that they could go
through the county's process to get this drive -thru approved. So, that's their
request. What we have had requests are whether or not we would waive that
requirement. That's normally a staff level decision, it's normally based upon
serviceability. That is an option, but they haven't expressed that they are willing
to live with that option or ask you to consider that. But you can certainly if they're
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willing to want to consider that you can. But right now all they have requested is
to hook up to services -- to hook up to services now, annex later with no timeline
to remove the billboard. And if I misstated that, please, correct me, but that's
what I understand.
Stewart: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Warren.
Stewart: I think -- so, when they apply to the county, the county comes --
because they are inside the city, the county comes and says you're in the city, we
want the city to chime in on this. The reason that you haven't annexed before is
because sewer service wasn't available and, therefore, a wavier was granted.
Well, that condition no longer exists. All of our services are now available. So,
the waiver that had been given in the past was a waiver saying we do not have
services available, therefore, we can't provide those services, you remain in a
county. That condition doesn't exist. We have the services. So, I don't know
that it's quite appropriate to say, you know, we are going to give you a waiver,
because the only reason we would ever give it a waiver in the past is because
services were not in existence and the condition no longer applies .
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I could add one more item that
may or may not help. There was a large scale project on McMillan a number of
years ago and they wanted to annex into the city and maintain a use that wasn't
allowed. They had sewer services immediately available to them and our
condition was we would not provide it unless they annexed. They declined.
They had to rebuild their septic system with Central District Health and Central
District Health normally in the past have not granted that -- that condition or
allowed that to be done and they did and they said if the -- if the city required
annexation, then, that was an impediment to them having to receive services and
they would be willing to allow it. So, we had that one individual circumstance that
we held -- the city held fast to the -- the idea of annexation and services went
together and they were still able to operate, they are still operating today, they
still exist out there today and so -- I mean that's -- that's a similar example and
that's the only one I could think of that's a like situation we have had where we
have -- we have told -- we have told them that the services were available, but
yet we wouldn't provide it without annexation and they were allowed to go
forward.
Lavey: Madam Mayor? Over here. So, the staff -- the staff concern that we
have is that if we grant this connect to sewer, there is never an incentive to ever
annex into the city and we are not about tax dollars, but we are already servicing
that property and the county is getting the revenue, not the city, and so the
billboard is what creates the issue and we don't have a stand ing on that. I think
that's something you need to figure out , but we need that property annexed and
we need to hook up to city sewer and, then, someone else has to figure out
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what's up with the billboard, but that's -- that's our -- that's our concern is that if
we grant this access, then, there is no incentive ever to annex into the city.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Council, I think what we got to decide is which is the worst of two evils.
The billboard, which does look nice, or the weeds that don't look very good. I -- I
feel that we need to hook up to them, but they need to come in and get it
annexed and, then, we can work about getting a time -- sunset on the billboard at
that time. I would a lot sooner see the billboard up there and them be in our
jurisdiction for code control.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: It makes sense to me with the chief's words to annex it now, hook them
up, all the other arguments I made, the employment and whatnot -- and the
billboard staying. I -- my assumption would be that they wouldn't have interest in
pursuing an annexation application, investing that time and money, knowing that
if we are going to tell them no, because there won't be an end date on the
billboard. I mean it's clear they have no interest in an end date any time in the
near future to establish an end date to the billboard , so is there interest among
the rest of the Council to -- to annex it, hook it up to the service, so they are
helping pay for emergency services and leave the billboard without an end date?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Palmer: I heard whispers of yes.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: They are already paying for emergency service. They are in the rural fire
district. They are paying that tax and we got an MOU with Ada county, they
cover for us and we cover for them, so -- Councilman Palmer, while I have no
problem with that, Iike I said, the billboard looks a lot nicer than the weeds.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: It sounds like I might have a second. Let's try this. I move -- well, I
guess maybe we are not approving an annexation, but I can -- can we do a
motion to give a -- what's the best way to give them the message that --
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De Weerd: An extension of service.
Palmer: -- to take a vote and give them a message that we would likely approve
that, should they go through the process?
De Weerd: To allow hook up contingent on an application for annexation in 60
days. I think it was in the staff recommendation. Caleb.
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Palmer, it sounds like you are going to make
a motion, although I don't know exactly where i t's going, I think I understand.
What I have asked for in the memo is if you're inclined to provide the service in
advance of annexation -- sometime in advance of annexation, we will put any
provisions in that agreement to hook up. So, if they are going to take that
hookup, it's whatever provisions you come up with, essentially, tonight, although
we can talk about it again when we bring a draft agreement before you. So,
whatever provisions there are, there is really going to be a second discussion on
this, because we need to come to terms of the contract, right? We are providing
you the service in exchange for you doing X, Y and Z, whatever the things are,
and both parties need to agree. So, whatever the motion is, again, I would hope
it would say if you are so inclined to allow them to hook up to service before the
annexation application that that be part of the motion, that they work with -- you
know, that this agreement happened in exchange for that service.
Palmer: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And anyone, please, interrupt me as I go through this, so I don't mess it
up if I need to improve the language , because that is a factor that I understand
was important to them, that they be able to hook up and open up, because it
wouldn't take a whole lot for them to be able to start doing business while they,
then, go through the process of government. So, I move we approve the request
to hook up prior to annexation, with the requirement that they apply for
annexation within 60 days of the finalizing of -- of hooking up the sewer. Is that
sufficient? Do I need to add more to that? And allow the billboard to stay
indefinitely --
De Weerd: That's not part of this --
Palmer: Okay. Then ignore the billboard. But you could probably --
Bird: Prior to annexation.
De Weerd: Yeah.
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Palmer: Understanding that --
Bird: I would second that.
De Weerd: Okay. So, what was your motion?
Palmer: Caleb knows my motion better than I do.
De Weerd: Caleb, what did he motion?
Hood: Madam Mayer, what I heard -- I guess just some clarification, because
you kind of formed your motion in the form of a question somewhat -- or at least
-- but -- so, the way I have it drafted in mine would be within 60 days of that
agreement being complete. So, that agreement, again, is -- it's all
encompassing. Within sixty days of them signing it and, then, it being on your
agenda and signing it, within 60 days they have an application for annexation.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? My intention is for them to be able to hook up and open
and start doing business, so that then -- but still we have a way to shut them
down if for some reason they don't comply to everything that we would normally
require in an annexation process. Maybe I made it worse.
De Weerd: Well, I think that Mike knows it's his risk; right?
Borton: Madam Mayor. If you're referencing reversing the sewer connection, we
can't -- I don't think we can.
Bird: Can't do that, no.
Palmer: So, the -- Madam Mayor. So, is there a mechanism for them to be able
to -- to open or do we have to go through our whole long process before they can
open?
Hood: Madam Mayor, if I can -- again, there is some of the request -- again, the
annexation kind of timing aside, is to allow them to proceed to the county -- what
we kind of discussed with them is what staff somewhat is comfortable with -- is,
okay, proceed to the county, with the understanding you're going to immediately
follow it up with an annexation process to clean up this enclave, because you're
receiving all city services. Well, do that more immediately, not ten years, not 20
years, not never. We have a -- the problem with that though -- and I think in your
motion, just to kind of -- again, if I understand it is the billboard would never get
addressed if you don't do it with the hook up agreement. You have got -- talk
about cake and eat it, too -- I don't remember who said that. They have got
everything. They will never sign a development agreement. Why would you?
You have got everything. You have submitted the application. That's all you said
to do was submit an application. It doesn't mean I have to do anything after that.
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I don't have to come in the hearings. I submitted an application. A good faith --
I'm not saying they would do that, but just saying you really can't condition that
anymore. You can try. And, again, the folks in the community want to give them
the benefit of the doubt. I'm just saying really you don't have the hammer outside
of this hook up. Anything you want to see happen -- this is the last thing you can
condition -- this is the only carrot you have left is the hook up. So, with that
anything you want to see -- and if it's nothing that's fine, too. Just letting you
know that that's really your last, you know, hammer, if you will, or stick, whatever.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I think the policy consideration is the most important one. I think the
applicant -- and, Heath, in particular you have done a great job in trying to find
some middle ground. We have spent a lot of time on this, because it is
complicated. I think it has implications far broader than -- than this project with
regards to the policy that's being adhered to. I'm not supportive of connecting
outside properties to sewer. If you're going to be in the city be in the city; right? I
mean you're in or you're out. And be in. But there is a mechanism to try and
resolve all of this, that middle ground, and if you had an agreement that Caleb's
referencing that permitted connection prior to annexation, that required
annexation application to be filed within 60 days of that agreement and that the
annexation application contains a date certain when the billboard gets removed, I
would be supportive of that. We have got an additional benefit, at least on the
applicant's side, and that it's not a scenario where you have a third -party leasing
agency that we don't control. For better or for worse you do control your own
destiny somewhat with regards to the billboard and that might change in the
future, but for now there is that opportunity. So, you have the ability to make that
commitment with an annexation application and if you know on the front end that
request to becoming of you, that that application has to have a date certain and
maybe that is ten years; right? Maybe that's an ample time, in light of the risk
that was taken in 2016, to invest in an -- in an expensive billboard, knowing that
this problem might be coming sooner rather than later with regards to annexation
pressures into the city, but it still allows investment to be recouped, some profits
to be -- to be reaped, but also addresses the city's existing concern that any
opportunity to remove a nonconforming use within the city, a billboard, that we
can capture that opportunity. That sounds like a middle ground. That would be
fair to me. It allows the business to be opened immediately. It allows the
annexation to be processed immediately and for them truly to become a partner
within the city as part of the city and it also captures the really viable concern and
that last opportunity to remove the billboard, while still allowing the property
owner to recoup its investment. So, that's -- that's the one parameter that I would
support this to go forward. I think the annexation application has to include a
date certain. I'd say ten years, maybe less. Less is always better. But with
those conditions that agreement I would support.
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Clark: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, I did want to just clarify one item.
You know, in the -- in the letter I had proposed that we would annex later on,
because I was under the impression that that would be more palatable to the city,
that you would do the annexation application if X, Y and Z occurs. We are open
to the idea of an earlier annexation and , you know, frankly, you know, I can take
whatever direction the Council gives us -- we can take that back to the ownership
group. It is just -- we did want to make sure that that -- that the Council is clear
on how big of a financial ask that that is and so we are interested in trying to find
a middle ground and exploring different timing, it's just -- and I just want to clarify
that we are not opposed to an earlier annexation, it's just that that is an initial
take at it.
Bird: Make another motion and have a date certain.
De Weerd: We did have a motion on the table.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: W hy don't we just withdraw it.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Second agrees.
Palmer: And now I'm kind of lost.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Joe, was that a motion?
Bird: No.
Milam: Good. I will second it.
Borton: It wasn't. It was more just trying to get some context to a sticky wicket. I
think -- and the chief raised excellent points with regard to those opportunities of
if you are going to be in the city, be in the city. So, what I -- the narrative I
described I think it would be something I would support as a middle ground.
Otherwise, I -- I just couldn't support allowing the connection absent those
strings.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Okay. So, then, can we -- and maybe this is what you said, maybe it's
not. Allowing to -- or give -- let the county know, hey, we are good to let him
open without the connection and, then, they can apply -- give them time -- you
know, they would be able to open without the sewer connection, if it works, and,
then, they would have -- that would give them time to be open and work on
figuring out a date that, then, they would be able to bring with an annexation
application.
De Weerd: No, because we would have to submit a letter of -- a waiver.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Councilman Palmer, I think your first motion was okay, we just need a time
certain on the application and the other stuff like that. It's like Joe said, but if we
don't -- if we don't get that, then, we are kind of sitting there with no hammer.
Other than the time --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I will try and craft it into a motion. I would move that we approve the
request for connection to city sewer services prior to annexation upon execution
of a written agreement that memorializes that right that includes a condition of an
agreement of an annexation application to be filed within 60 days of that contract
being executed and of the annexation application and even the agreement itself
makes reference to the applicant's commitment for the removal of the billboard
within no more than ten years from the date annexation.
Milam: Second.
Borton: And that agreement would come back to Council for review and the final
approval.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
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Cavener: Just a question for either Warren or Bill. Have we allowed sewer
connections to be granted prior the annexation process being complete?
De Weerd: Yes. With an agreement to annex. Yes.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so we did one recently you
remember on Black Cat behind where the Kit Kat used to be, but, again, wasn't
annexable. So, no, we have not granted that normally when it was annexable,
but the -- but the condition here -- and I was going to ask for clarification of the
motion, were you anticipating in that agreement language similar to what we did
recently on the Maverik property with not just the ten years, but with conditions of
surety and authority as to the property to remove it if it doesn't get removed,
because as Caleb said, if I don't have that language they may never sign that
agreement as a development agreement and that's one of the reasons why this
Council in the past had adopted this policy is because we used to require people
apply -- they didn't want to be in the city, they already had the services, we just
made them do it, so they didn't come to the meeting, they didn't care if you
annexed them or not, and if you didn't they were fine, it didn't matter. So, that
was why we crafted the policy this way. So, if you would like those conditions in
ten years, I just wanted to know if you want those other conditions we required of
the other property down the street.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: By in that agreement you mean this preliminary agreement up front , yes.
I think you have to. And in all fairness to the applicant. I mean no one's hiding
the ball on what the obligations are going to be and if that's acceptable we can go
forward and if it's not everyone is above board on what's going to be asked.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I think for the -- the applicant I'm supportive of this motion and as
everything, the devil is in the details and my apologies, my bedside manner
sometimes comes across a lot more abrasive verbally than it is in my head. I am
a fan of Sodalicious. My family and I are going to Utah next week and part of our
vacation planning is to stop at a Sodalicious. So, I understand the desire to get
open in Meridian. I hope we can find opportunity for you to be successful in
multiple locations in our community. I just -- there is some particular issues that
are hot button points for me and I'm hopeful that we can come to some sort of
agreement that's beneficial for the landowner, the tenant, as well as the city.
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De Weerd: I did tell Sodalicious that he chose the most complicated property in
the city to try and get into, so --
Cavener: Without a doubt.
Hood: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Caleb.
Hood: I know you have a motion on the table. I just want to clarify or ask for
some clarification of the maker of the motion. The representative early in the
presentation mentioned -- made reference to the memo that I had prepared to
you and mentioned consent to a couple of the things that I had asked for. I just
don't -- it wasn't explicitly in your -- your motion, but they said they were okay
with exploring cross-access and, you know, just a couple of things like that and it
would -- you know, the timing and those types of things. So, I just didn't know if
that's also in part of this agreement that -- it's your ask; right? There will be
another -- everyone gets to read the -- the fine print of what's in there, but shall
we start with that or is that not even a part of what this initial draft contains?
Borton: Madam Mayor? Thank you, Caleb, for bringing that up. Yes, include it
and it -- especially to items that there is already agreement on. Let's put it all on
the table on the front end.
De Weerd: Second agree?
Milam: Second agrees.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Thank you. We knew it would be a lengthy discussion, because it is
one of those complicated -- we keep getting these new -- new one time out type
of conversation. So, I thank you for being here tonight. We look forward like to
seeing what your address is going to be.
De Weerd: Item 10-A is under Department Reports, under our Public Works
Department. I'm going to -- I'm going to call a ten minute break. Okay? Sorry.
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(Recess: 9:08 p.m. to 9:22 p.m.)
Item 10: Department Reports
A. Public Works: National Pollutant Discharge Elimination
System (NPDES) Update
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead resume our meeting with Department Reports
under 10-A and turn this over to Dale.
Bolthouse: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I appreciate the
opportunity to stand before tonight and give you an update on something that we
have been talking for a long time and that is the actual issuance of our new
NPDES permit and we want to take a little bit of your time tonight to give you an
oversight where we have been, where we are at today, where we are going and
just exactly how this lays out in terms of commitments and challenges and
opportunities that we have before us. So, Laurelei and I get an opportunity to
stand before you, but I want you to know that we are representing a full
department of staff that have worked hard, the engineering teams, the operations
groups, over a long period of time to bring this to fruition and so we are excited to
bring you up to speed in just exactly where we are at. So, our agenda over the
course of the next 15 or 20 minutes is to kind of walk you through the history, talk
about the investments that we have made to date, what's been done. We will
turn it over Laurelei and she will bring you up to speed on the key components of
the new permit. We have been talking about them for quite a while and I think
you will recognize a lot of those items and, then, we will finish with a discussion
about the commitments that we have that are still ahead of us. So, a little bit -- a
little bit about the history here. Just as a timeline that actually takes you back all
the way to 1999. So, our current permit, the permit that we have for six more
days at the City of Meridian here, was issued in 1999 and I'm not going to go
through all of this, but for illustrative purposes you can see that there has been a
tremendous amount of activities and events and milestones and everything else
that have occurred since what should have been a 2004 expiration of that permit.
Through the process of administrative extensions, a variety of different
investments, working our way through and watching other communities go before
us and things, you can see that we have -- we have had a lot of efforts that has
brought us up through the 2014 window when we first got a look at what we call
the pre-draft permit that was issued by -- by EPA to us. So, the actual item since
the permit -- you know, we have had really three years of pretty intense
negotiations with EPA and DEQ that we think was very successful. We saw
removal of limits come out of our -- out of the permit. We saw the compliance
schedule created, which we had a lot of say in exactly what that looked like and
what was in the best interest of the City of Meridian. We had modified detection
limits and even some things that -- that fell out of the permit. So, to the best of
our ability we did a -- we did a great job of negotiating through that process that
has brought us to the permit we have today. We have taken advantage of that
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time. There is a lot of technology that's evolving. We have been piloting and
trying to stay on top of that technology as best we can to make sure that as we
modify our facilities to comply with our new permits that we have got the -- the
best and the broadest knowledge base to make the -- to make the best decisions
that we can. One of those is actually the picture you're seeing here , that's the
AirPrex and that's the side stream removal process for phosphorus that we -- we
piloted and there are other technologies that we are investigating today to try to
make sure that we make the most effective decision that we can for the
technology we are required to meet. We have been involved in a lot of different
regulatory processes. The TMDLs, the total maximum daily limit things that look
at impaired streams and define where those responsibilities lie. We have been
actively involved in all the other city permits we have been very involved in the
development of Primacy by the state of Idaho for the development and
implementation of future permits. So, as you're aware -- I think you're probably
aware is that Idaho is deep in that process and will in the next year and a half
take over the issuance of the NPDES type permits on behalf of the state. That's
an obligation that we will have in terms of some financial support, but it brings
that whole process, which to now has been a federal Region Ten issue dealing
with permit writers out of Seattle and things and it will bring it into a state level
where we will have I think stakeholders that understand us and our environment
and our local jurisdictions and will be able to work closely with us. Will have a
name and a face that we can call when we have questions and things . So, that's
a -- that's a very important process for us and it is right on the -- right on the
horizon for us. This permit, however, was issued through EPA Region Ten out of
Seattle.
De Weerd: Dale, is there a possibility that we can have the state come and give
a presentation and an update on where they are at in the process and what it
looks like -- of course, this is new, it needs to be funded, and what -- what are
they going to be expecting of our citizens to fund as part of that.
Bolthouse: Yeah.
De Weerd: Because as I recall you had the state saying they would pay a third,
industry would pay a third, and the municipalities, those with permits would have
to pay a third.
Bolthouse: Yeah. Madam Mayor. That's correct. And I think we can pursue
that. If not, I know that we are probably up on that whole process enough to
where we could come and offer -- offer an update. But it is, in essence, a three
million dollar program, takes about 29 FTEs is what they are planning to
implement the process and the state and municipal -- I guess municipalities
share is based on population of communities and the estimate of our first
payment is approximately 70,000 dollars for the City of Meridian to support the
Idaho base process here, so -- but we would be glad to pursue -- per year. Yes.
On a per year basis and our first obligation there would be in the 2019 budget
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cycle. But we will -- we would be glad to -- you know, see if they are willing to
come in and, if not, we will get you a better update with more detail.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bolthouse: Also since 2014 you have been -- you have been very gracious to
support a number of initiatives that we have had going on out at the wastewater
treatment plant. We took the opportunity, recognizing what was coming down
the line, to upgrade and improve some of our facilities. You are very familiar with
those. The laboratory, the maintenance shop, the administrative buildings, all of
those were built with the long term needs and considerations in place. So, we
hope that these facilities -- they have been designed to hopefully meet our needs
as we -- as we build out the city over the next many -- many decades. Those
have not -- those progresses haven't been made without some pretty significant
investments. So, if you -- if you go back as early as 2006 there is a number of
projects that we have invested in that have slowly been building towards this new
permit that we have and our ability to meet it, along with the growth that
continued over that period of time, so you can see that over -- over that time
period through 2015 we invested approximately 62 million dollars out there in the
wastewater treatment facility that's come in the way of capacity. It's technology
and a number of the processes that we are relying upon today to meet the
current permit and will assist us in at least partially getting us towards the interim
limits that are coming with this permit. A lot of that certainly has allowed us to
meet the growth that we have committed to and you're familiar with a couple of
projects that we have going on -- really two big projects that are currently in
progress and that is the liquid stream capacity expansion and the headworks
project, which over the course of the next 24 to 30 months will be c ompleted.
Those particular initiatives also assist us in meeting our growth requirements,
take our overall facility capacity up to the 15 million gallons a day and allow us to
meet all of our interim limits with -- with what is planned on those particular
projects. So, a lot of investment, a lot of effort that has gone in here the last
couple of years. Number of permit drivers that have kind of let us this -- along
this path both with the regulatory agencies and things and here is just a couple of
those that I would probably mention to you . The Hells Canyon TMDL, which --
which started a lot of the activity and focus on phosphorus as a -- as a concern
and have driven to the very very low humble limits that are now in our new permit
and we will talk a little bit more about that. Some lawsuits by conservation
groups to get -- get the federal government to move along on these permit
processes and stop dragging their feet. The lower Boise River TMDL and just
the overall data that we have continued to collect over time that the -- that the
regulators use to help establish the new permit requirements. We have been
watching carefully other municipalities in the valley here. All of our permits are a
little bit different, depending upon the receiving stream that we discharge to, but
you can see that all of our three primary neighbors have all had their permits
issued before us and that's been advantageous as we watch and participate in
their processes, can see what's coming down the road and I think was
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successfully contributing to our ability to -- to negotiate the best permit we can.
So, you will see Boise right now is in the -- in the process of their permit renewal
and application. So, we are going to be watching that very carefully. Nampa and
Caldwell are slightly ahead of us. We were actually all supposed to be on the
same schedule and because of some of the work that we were doing we
separated ourselves and were successful in the BIS Phthalate challenge of that
whole thing. So, we are watching those carefully. One thing to note, this is a five
year permit, so this is almost a never ending process for us and our staff to stay
on top of this and continue to -- continue to work it and we will be right back here
in four and a half years making application for the next permit.
De Weerd: Well -- and I think it's important to note that in the past those -- those
years were not as important, because they were not on top of it.
Bolthouse: Right.
De Weerd: As you will know, we were operating under a 1999 permit, but with
the primacy that the state has been building towards you can see that these
renewals will probably be adhered to.
Bolthouse: I think that's a fair characterization. I would bet the state of Idaho is
committed to keeping these things on schedule.
De Weerd: And we did not mind the delay, because it delayed any cost and new
regulations that we had to adhere to.
Bolthouse: We took full advantage. We kicked the can down the road as long as
we could. I'd like to turn it over to Laurelei now, who is going to walk us through
some of those specific key components of the new permit.
McVey: All right. Thanks, Dale. So, I'm going to cover some of the details and I
know it's been a really long night, so I'm going to try to keep it light, although this
is a really technically complex legal, federal document. So, I will do my best.
Stop me along the way if you have any questions. I'm used to some of this
jargon, so sometimes I don't explain it well enough. So, what I will be doing is
covering the permit requirements over the next five year period and ten year
period. We will be talking about new limits and also the interim limits and final
limits and what's the difference between those and what that mea ns from a
technical standpoint at the treatment plant. We will talk about increases in
monitoring, the reasons for those, the impact of that and what some of the results
may be used for. We will also talk about some of the complex new challenges,
special testing and reporting that's required under the permit and, then, finally,
we will talk about the compliance schedule, which lays out the legally binding,
significant activities that we have to complete over the next ten years. So, while
this is issued for five years, it has ten years of commitments in it. So, our permit
goes live on August 1st, like Dale said. We are at T minus six days and it comes
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up for expiration in 2022. So, at that time DEQ can do several things. They can
issue us a brand new permit. They can administratively extend this permit. Or
they can add -- do just permit modifications. So, any of those things can happen
at that five year mark. It's a big unknown for us. And, then, again, at the ten year
mark we could get another new permit. So, right now what we are doing is we
are planning for the things that we know of . We know that some of these things
are coming in 2027 and we are planning for those and the upgrades will help us
meet those. But we may have some challenges in between. So, the first thing
that I'd like to cover -- some of the new increased monitoring. So, we are
required to measure what's coming into the plant . So, that's pretty standard
across the board. The regulators want to know what's coming in, so they can tell
us, you know, how well we are doing removing things. The two items in black
are what are currently required. All of the items in red are new constituents.
Moving to the effluent. We have monitoring and limits. So, this chart is pretty
standard permit constituents that you will find in basically any wastewater plant.
There is a few notable changes. The elimination of the seven mgd flow limits.
So, that's great for us. We got a slight increase in our BOD and slight decrease
in our total suspended solids and modification on the lab method . Instead of
measuring fecal, we measure E.Coli, which doesn't seem like a big thing, it's
actually a much better lab method for us. So, it's mostly all good news and we
currently have the ability to meet most of these limits under normal plant
conditions. So, that's great. The next table is really where the big challenges lie.
So, as you read this table from left to right -- I know there is a ton of information
there, but you will see that all of these constituents, phosphorus, ammonia, they
are all new limits. So, we didn't have any of these limits in the 1999 permit. In
the next column you will see what is called the interim limit and what interim limits
are are limits that EPA gives us until we have the technology in place to meet the
final limits. So, you will see most of the interim limits. We can -- we think we can
meet most of the time, but a lot of those we don't even have any data on . So, a
lot of the plant upgrades that we talked about that are getting us to 15 mgd and
the interim limits, those are the interim limits that we will need. The next column,
which is probably the most important column, is the final limit. So, these are final
limits that are legally set to go into place in 2027. You will see some of these are
measured down into the parts per trillion, like the mercury, and some of them are
even so low that there is not labs that can detect that low yet. So, the top two are
actually the most challenging ones, the phosphorus and ammonia, and those are
set really at the limit of technology. When we tell other wastewater plants those
top two numbers, people are astonished that we are going to have to get to that
low of limits. So, this is really kind of pushing the limit of technology, this is what
we are designing the new plant for, and it's going to require to even -- even
additional expansion after we finish this first upgrade, to get to those limits. The
good news is if we design our plant to get to th ose limits, you take care of a lot of
those other limits, because the technology removes those other things in the
process. Another challenge for us is -- a new thing for us is seasonal variation.
So, our limits are going to change halfway through the year. So, it's just another
kind of thing for us to keep track of. This list here is a bunch of the effluent
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monitoring that's required. So, we don't have limits on these things yet and I say
yet, because the way these permits work is that you have effluent monitoring,
which, then, provides data, which, then, they analyze to say, you know, are you
discharging any of these things and, then, the next permit cycle that comes
around you might get permit limits. So, this list, while we don't have limits, is
required monitoring and accuracy in handling when we take these samples is
really of the utmost importance, because we want to make sure that if we are
measuring these things they are really there. So, another new monitoring
challenge for us is surface water monitoring. So, we, under the new permit, will
be required to monitor Five Mile Creek and the Boise River. So, while we don't
discharge to the Boise River currently, part of the continency of keeping that
outfall is doing monitoring on the river. So, we feel, even though we don't use
that outfall right now, it's really important for us to keep that outfall -- EPA, DEQ,
does not give out new outfalls very often. So, the point of that is it's a lot of new
monitoring for our lab and it actually is the time constraint to go down and take
those samples. So, that will be a big impact. And so that brings us to some of
the level of detail that we have been preparing for. So, we have to test and
monitor down to the part per trillion and that's kind of a big term that's not super
easy to understand, but we found this graphic that if you had an Olympic size
swimming pool, testing to the part per million would be being able to detect like a
two liter soda bottle being poured into that pool . Testing down to the part per
billion is a half teaspoon. We are testing down to the part per trillion, which is
drops of water in an Olympic size swimming pool. So, not only do we have to
treat to those really, really low levels, we have to be able to test to those really,
really low levels in the lab. So, our current mercury -- or our final mercury limit
is going to be able to detect and treat down to ten drops of water in an Olympic
size pool. So, part of this is setting -- with some of these new effluent limits is
setting up sampling, because contamination is a huge issue . So, this is our new
sampling setup out of the effluent and we actually have three samplers out there.
One just for regular testing. One is plastic free, so you don't contaminate
anything with plastic, and the other one is metal free, so you don't contaminate
anything with metal. We actually had to custom make one of these samplers,
because it wasn't available. So, kudos to our -- our really good staff to be able to
do that. So, our new lab is part of this that's helping us get ready for these really
low limits, like acid washing, ultra pure water and clean air changes and another
thing, too, is we are actually having our staff have to wear masks who have
amalgam fillings, because just breathing in the vicinity of the sample, if you have
an amalgam filling, could cause you to violate that mercury limit.
De Weerd: So, Laurelei, this is so crazy.
McVey: Yes.
De Weerd: I mean you just sit here and think this is really government at its very
worst. But if we are having to create these things, then, what are other --what
are other cities doing?
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McVey: That's a great question, Madam Mayor. The reason that we are going to
this level is that we are so concerned with that contamination . Other cities are
just using commercially bought samplers. We have found that you can get
detections and hits just from the water travelling through some of those metal
parts. So, for us the risk isn't worth it. So, it's worth, you know, setting up these
custom samplers. But most places just use the standard ones and hope that
they don't get contamination.
De Weerd: And, then, they are going have detection of those other things and
they will have them in their permits the next time.
McVey: Yeah. Big time. So, we are really fortunate we have really talented lab
staff that are, you know, beyond -- on top of some of these things, so -- and it's
really looking out for the best interest of the city. So, speaking of those guys, this
is the impact on August 1st. So, in six days. So, the treatment plant -- we have
some leeway with the interim limits and finishing the construction. The lab on
August 1st goes from -- almost doubling their workload overnight. So, this was
part of what we got ready for building the lab, buying the equipment, hiring the
lab staff, so that they were trained and ready and I can say on the lab front we
are ready for August 1st. So, this one is another really good one. This is another
new requirement for us called expanded effluent testing. So, every -- three times
in the next five year period we have to send off for analysis on 101 compounds.
This is just a little sampling of some of them . So, these -- these hard to say
compounds are what they call contaminants of emerging concern and these are
the ones that if you even get a single detection on any of these they could be
brought up for your next permit cycle. There is one that you might recognize
down there on the bottom right is BIS Phthalate. So, this -- this list and those
testings are very important for us over the next five years. Another challenging
requirement is whole effluent toxicity testing or commonly called WET testing.
So, this is a test where we have to take our effluent and we have to put fire fleas
and have minnows and algae in our effluent and make sure that those organisms
can survive, reproduce, and grow. So, this can be a really challenging test,
because you're working with live organisms. It's also one of my favorite permit
ironies that we are putting millions of dollars in infrastructure to remove nitrogen
and phosphorus to stop algae blooms, but, then, we have to also prove that our
wastewater is not toxic to algae at the same time. So, WET testing is very
expensive and it can be even more expensive if your effluent fails. Obviously,
that is not our plan, but just a story from our neighboring cities, city of Boise,
since their new permit went in in 2012 has been in accelerated WET testing ever
since. So, you can see some of the cost associated with that up there. So,
obviously, we are not planning on that, but the costs of these things can add up
significantly. Additionally, we have to participate in a fish tissue sampling
program. This is a program that we are going to partner with some of our local
neighbors to get this permit requirement done in a mutually beneficial cost -
effective manner and what this program does is it looks to prove real time
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improvements in the fish in the rivers and see if the mercury reductions that we
are doing are having impacts in actual fish in the river. So, we also have this big
list of plans, reports, and documents that we have to submit. As you can see
most of these are new requirements. One of the things I'm really proud to say is
that we are planning on doing all but one of these in house and we looked at that
at a conservative cost estimate savings of about 150 ,000 dollars that it would
take to send all these out to consultants. So, another huge kudos to our really
high quality, high caliber staff that can complete these in house. So, finally, I'd
like to talk about our compliance schedule. This is something that you're going to
hear a lot about in the next ten years. So, what is a compliance schedule? It's,
essentially, a grace period of time that the EPA gives that allows permittees to
install the necessary infrastructure. So, as you guys can imagine you can't build
new aeration basins overnight, you can't put in tertiary filters overnight, so what
this is is a leeway to help you get to those interim -- or those final limits.
However, to do that you have to provide plans, meet milestones, and provide
annual reports that show, yes, we are doing what we said we were going to do,
we are not going to get to the end and , you know, say, oh, well, wow, we didn't
do anything. So, the compliance schedule is part of our permit and includes --
so, it's legally required capital improvement milestones that have been set out.
So, what do those look like? The first one is our facility plan update and it is a
document that's required by EPA and DEQ and, essentially, it's the city's plan to
meet those -- those final permit limits. It's required to ensure there is enough
time to design, fund, build and learn to operate these systems. So, this plan is
already underway. We started this fiscal year and it's going to cost us about a
half a million dollars. The next compliance schedule item is the first step of
design efforts for phase two. So, we talked about phase one, it's just going to get
us to interim limits. Phase two is going to be the next big stage of construction.
So, we are required by July 2022 to submit to EPA -- or DEQ and EPA our -- our
plans to get to those final phase two upgrades. The actual final design on those
is due in 2023 and we estimate that those two milestones together will be about
4.5 million dollars, which, essentially, is the design of the second retrofit to the
treatment plant and also tertiary filtration. So, the next big milestone comes in
2025 and that we have to be completely finished with the final construction for
the phase two upgrades and that is estimated to cost about 24 million dollars for
the BNR piece and, then, the tertiary filtration piece is another 21 million that
comes in at the end of that compliance schedule. So, in summary, the
compliance schedule, like I said, is a legally required milestones under the permit
and it has us spending about 115 million dollars over the next 11 years to meet
the permit that's set before us. So, as you can see from, you know, my portion,
this is a really complex detailed document and it has significant monitoring limits
and capital projects over the next ten years. So, the good news is we have done
a lot to get ready for this with the Council's and Mayor's support. You know, we
are in a much better place than if this permit would have hit a couple of years
ago. However, we still have some stuff that's left to do and I will turn that back
over to Dale.
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De Weerd: Thank you, Laurelei.
Bolthouse: Good. So, hopefully, we haven't offered too much sticker shock to
you at this point. I just want to end with maybe a couple slides here and talk
about what's -- what's ahead of us. This is an aerial view of the design and the
activities that are going on right now at the wastewater treatment plant. We are
well into the construction of the first phase of our liquid stream capacity
expansion, which adds, in essence, a new treatment train for the liquid side of
the processes out there and touch virtually everything that you -- that you see
right here. I would say I would love to invite the Council out any time to come
take a look. There is actually something to see now. There is -- there is large
basins under construction. There is millions of pounds of concrete already in the
ground and rebar and everything going in. So, would love to have you join us at
your convenience for a tour of how things are going on out there through actually
-- it's actually pretty exciting.
De Weerd: Dale, why don't you maybe get some dates out to Council, so we
could maybe do it in a couple of outings, instead of all seven of us.
Bolthouse: Sure. That would be our pleasure. We can set that up for you.
De Weerd: I mean at individual times that would not be --
Bolthouse: Sure.
De Weerd: -- time efficient.
Bolthouse: We are normally there, so we can accommodate a lot of different
times, so -- this next one I just popped up on you is kind of where we are going.
So, when we talk about time horizons, you know, we -- we have to construct on a
time frame that looks out 30, 40, 50 years and kind of approaching the buildout of
-- of the City of Meridian. So, you can see this is -- this is the concept that we
have to design to based on best known technology and capability and, then, back
-- back down to what we have to do in the first phase and , then, you know, kind
of phase our way there. So, we wanted to -- we wanted to give you an idea of
what that looks like -- pretty much fills our property that's -- that's out there
today and offers us the opportunity at current design to process between 25 and
30 million gallons a day, which would come close to supporting the city at build
out with what we know today. You know, this could be tossed out five years from
now and something new -- new requirement be brought upon us that could
change this, but just to give you a little bit of insight into what that process looks
like. So, we do have some future impacts. As Laurelei mentioned to you, we do
have a very specific compliance schedule that we must meet . We have made
those commitments and we are --we are on our way on those. There is no
technology today that can do this on its own without -- without adding some
chemicals to facilitate some of that process and so in the CFP where we look out
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July 25, 2017
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over this ten year period, eventually we are going to be adding various chemicals
to assist in the process of removal of a lot of these constituents, getting it down to
those final permit limits and, unfortunately, that comes with a pretty high cost.
So, we are right now looking at somewhere in excess of the -- of a million dollars
a year as we get out there in additional chemical addition based on the
processes today. The NPDES permit process that's coming in in our annual
commitment for that is mentioned here, in addition to the size, the complexity and
everything else at the facility, you know, requiring us to design the right kind of
staffing and moving towards 24/7 operations and things and we are going to --
we are going to be building these into our CFP planning, so you will see how that
kind of phases in over the course of the next several years -- several years, so --
and, then, just a couple of future influences, just to revisit. One is that this is a
five year permit. We know that our neighbors already have temperature criteria
where they are looking for ways to have to cool that process water down before
it's discharged and in some cases I think the city of Boise -- they have got a 15
year window to try to figure that out, but that's going to be a very big issue if we
have to take our process water and cool it by, you know, ten to 12 degrees
before we can even discharge it. So, that's a significant item that's in other
permits. That's not in ours, but we may expect to see that. As we collect all this
monitoring data we anticipate that will be leveraged back, you know, against us
to -- to take and possibly see that as new limits and , then, the big topic that we
are always looking at is just exactly how are we going to fund this as a city as we
look down the road, you know, out through this ten to 15 year kind of -- kind of
commitment window, so -- and on that one we will be -- we will be back in the fall,
as Alex and I visited with you with -- with our thoughts on exactly what that looks
like and how we proceed with a funding strategy recommendation. So, we try to
keep this thing moving for you tonight. We know it's late, but we would be more
than happy to stand for any kind of questions that you might have as we enter a
new era of wastewater compliance.
De Weerd: Well, thank you for such a detailed and well put together presentation
that takes a lot of complex information and put s it into something that's very
understandable. So, appreciate the effort you put into that. Council, any
questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Not a question, just a comment. You look at this picture and I look back at
when myself and Tammy come on -- it's amazing -- it's amazing, but, you know,
the one -- the one thing that our Public Works has done is they stayed ahead in
all the divisions. Your staff, regardless of who is there or what, you have always
been able to stay ahead and do the right job and I'm just proud of what we have
in our water, wastewater and administration in our Public Works, because if you
have problems like we found out a little bit ago it's not fun. Sewers backing up, it
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might not be as bad as a crime or a fire, but it's pretty bad. People get pretty
excited. But, anyway, I just want to thank you for everything you do and, Council,
make sure that you listen good in the future and always stay ahead of the
problem.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I echo some of Councilman Bird's comments about the facility.
Question, though, for you, Dale, would be regardless of politics, we have a new
administration that at least has a rhetoric of repealing regulations, as opposed to
adding regulations. Have you heard in other municipalities is any of that rhetoric
trickling down to requirements that are impacting them or do we think that will
provide us any reprieve as we seek out new permitting guidelines ?
Bolthouse: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, we -- that's a very good
question and we have not as of yet heard of the impact of that. We are aware of
the fact that there is conversations of cutting, you know, funding for various
regulatory agencies and things. You know, fundamentally, I think the agencies
believe that a lot of the imposing of what's here is based on science and
regardless of philosophy and some administration things, some of those things
are still -- still coming through. I would guess that maybe our first indication of
that might be as we watch the Boise permit renewal process here. Our permit
has, in essence, been done now for, you know, roughly a year and so I think it
was too late to have any influence there . But I think it's going to be something to
watch very, very closely and see if there aren't some -- some influences. We can
hope for the best, but I think we will continue to plan as if, you know, things are
going to progress in the direction that they have gone. But no -- no evidence that
I'm aware of at this point in time yet, but we are watching that carefully.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, additional question if I may. I think it was written
between the lines, but it sounds like that in the Council -- there may be some
significant changes to rates across the board, kind of a three legged stool
approach and if I'm reading through the lines appropriately is maybe that's not
going to be enough for -- for future needs and so we need to just start preparing
ourselves to having -- when you say you're going to come back, that we need to
start preparing ourselves for a conversation about how we are going to pay for
that, that's -- basically we need to look at some element of the rates that we have
increased and may be increase them even higher. Is that fair to say?
Bolthouse: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, that is -- that is fair to say. So,
I think we are in the zone of the early anticipated costs for the total project .
There were estimates as high as 190 million dollars. I think today's estimate,
today's dollars, we are probably in that 160 to 170 million dollars to prepare to the
end. In the meantime we have a lot of other costs that are increasing and things
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of that nature. But, you know, right now as we shared with you here a while back
our department, we feel very good about the next five to six years and, then, we
-- we start to drip -- you know, dip below the line and that's the time frame, kind of
years six through ten, that we will need to make some kind of an adjustment in
the rates and fee structure in order to remain at the level of solvency if you will
and having -- having the flexibility to do things we need to do . So, yeah, it's -- it,
again, is a longer term window, but the sooner we get started on those kinds of
things the better. We actually made a napkin kind of calculation and I think we
shared with you that if we could -- if we could wave a wand and -- and add
additional two hours to every customer's bill today, we would completely cover
our needs over that time frame. So, if that gives you an idea of how much
adjustment may be needed. It's just a matter of how we structure it, when we
implement it, those kinds of things, that there are a variety of options and some
decisions that Council will have to help us make, so --
Item 11: Ordinances
A. Ordinance No. 17-1741: An Ordinance Amending Title 1,
Chapter 7, Section 9, Meridian City Code, Regarding
Compensation for the City Council of Meridian;
providing for a waiver of the reading rules; and
Providing an Effective Date.
De Weerd: Any other questions? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Item 11-A is
Ordinance 17-1741. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this by title.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 17 -1741, an
ordinance amending Title 1, Chapter 7, Section 9, Meridian City Code, regarding
compensation for the City Council of Meridian, providing for a waiver of the
reading rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard the reading of this ordinance by title. Council, any -
- do I have a motion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve Ordinance 17-1741 with suspension of rules.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 11 -A. Mr. Clerk, will
you call roll.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry.
Milam: By the way, you know, I was not here to be able to be part of this
discussion, so I will be voting against these ordinances.
De Weerd: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Would now be an appropriate time for he r to add any discussion?
Milam: Well, does it need to be polled by somebody who voted no or voted for
it?
Nary: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the requirement
for -- there is no required for discussing it. If the desire is to reconsider that
decision, then, a person who voted in the affirmative must move to reconsider it.
It requires a second. It could be seconded by anybody and, then, it requires a
majority vote to reconsider the decision. But to just discuss the ordinance itself,
you don't -- you can simply do that as part of your discussion point of a motion
and a second, so --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mrs. Milam, did you -- you said anybody could ask for reconsider?
Nary: No.
Bird: That's what I thought.
Nary: The only person that can -- anybody that voted in the affirmative for the
motion can request reconsideration. Then anyone can second it. And, then, it
needs a majority vote.
Milam: Can we discuss it, Madam Mayor? So, I just would add my two cents.
Year after year -- or every two years we have a citizen group spend many, many
hours doing research just deciding what they think the compensation should be
and did this two years ago, they come before us and they give us a
recommendation and we say, thanks, but no thanks. It's like a slap in the face. I
mean why do we have a committee, you know, do we know -- why do we have
people volunteering for that if we are not going to listen to their
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July 25, 2017
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recommendations. We are talking about a tiny bit of money. So, I mean,
honestly, this would make a ten or 15 dollar a month difference to me and it's not
for the money. So, that's -- that's why the reason and I -- I felt that way last time
and I didn't speak up and I felt really bad about it afterwards and if I was on that
committee I would say don't ask me to volunteer my time if you're not going to
listen to my recommendations. On the other hand, as far as Council goes, if
you're not taking -- and this isn't really going to apply to me, because I'm not
going to be here for a real long time. But if you're not taking incremental
increases every once in a while, at some point you're going to have to get a huge
increase in order to get -- be up with the times and get people to be willing to do
this job and, obviously, we don't do it for the money, but at some point there is
going to be such a gap that's going to be really hard to fill and you're not going to
be able to do it with 300 dollars a year. I mean that's what we are talking about,
three hundred dollars a year, which is not much. I think the incremental
increases should be taken, because, otherwise, you end up in a big deficit and,
then, you need a big one in order to -- a big increase in order to keep up. And
with the Mayor the same thing. She works -- she works her butt off and -- I
mean that job is worth a lot more than -- than the amount of money that she's
paid. It's not a big difference. We decided that the employees deserve a three
percent merit. I know she's an elected official, not an employee, but I believe that
she deserves the same thing and I did find out that if she were to leave and
somebody else were to come in that wasn't worth that much money, that amount
could be changed and lowered back down to meet their qualifications. So, there
is my --
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I think it's important that we -- I think most of us, if not all
of us, agreed with what the outcome of the committee was , that their job was to
decide what the position is worth and, then, it's our -- our job to decide what it's
going to pay and I agreed with -- with the outcome, that the positions are worth
more than they are paying. But I feel that they are appropriate what they do pay
as it stands and the point you made about that apparently they can make
recommendations based on the person, that was disturbing to me. I think
elected officials' pay should be based in code on the position , not on who sits in
the position. That way whoever the people choose it's a set pay and the people
know what the pay is going to be, not a community making a decision based on
-- on the performance of a person. So, that I feel that is inappropriate and
shocking. But, again, we -- I don't feel like it was a slap in the face. I think we --
we said, hey, thank you, because you made -- you went to the work and you
decided what the position is worth. Now, we are just going to decide what it
pays. What is sufficient. What it's worth and what is sufficient I think is the big
difference between the decision we made.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
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Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: And I don't know if the committee was made of the same people that it
was two years prior. You weren't here, but we did the same exact thing. So, you
know, if -- at that point if I'm on that committee and this has happened twice, I'm
not -- don't ask me to do it again. It just -- it seems disrespectful for such a tiny
amount of money and -- anyway.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I don't know if this is appropriate, because this pertains to the next
ordinance, but I believe that -- that we all voted to give the employees a three
percent raise, but the face of our city -- and I'm talking about the seat, not the
person. If we was talking about the person, we would be here tomorrow morning
until 10:00 o'clock. But, anyway, I'm talking about the seat -- when you have the
most visual seat in the City of Meridian making less than -- I would have to say
probably at least 60 to 70 percent of your firefighters or your employees, I -- I just
don't know where we are coming from. And, you know, you go back through the
years that I have been on here, very rarely have I ever voted for an increase in --
in the Council's salary, for the simple fact is that, you know, I knew what I was
going to make when I got elected. I think you have to -- I think you have to have
a salary to get people to run. They got to know what they are going to make.
Councilman Palmer is right in that. But I think -- I hope you guys will reconsider
on this ordinance 17 -- dash 1742, because it is a slap in the face of the Mayor of
Meridian, Idaho, and regardless who is sitting in the seat.
De Weerd: Any further discussion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Councilman Bird, a few weeks ago you had brought up the median or
average income in Meridian. The pay for the Mayor's position is significantly
higher than the average pay of a Meridian citizen. The job is certainly
commensurate with that. In fact, I believe that the job is worth six figures. But it's
still significantly higher than the average pay and very, very sufficient to sustain a
family of any size within this city and it's a public service position and it should be
set, regardless of who is sitting there and where it's at right now I feel is perfectly
sufficient.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 83 of 86
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Okay. Councilman Palmer, I don't disagree with that. But let's -- let's take
it another way. We were told the other night the average income in Meridian,
Idaho, was 40,000 dollars; right? I think Brenda told us that the other day. Our
average income in the City of Meridian is 58,000. Now, the taxpayer -- I'm
making 40 and I can guarantee you that 90 percent of your employees don't have
the responsibility of the Mayor. If something goes wrong in the city, you and I
don't get the calls -- we get them once in a while if they are mad at us. I will
guarantee you the Mayor's office gets them every time. I just -- I just think if you
-- if you feel that the employees -- and don't get me wrong -- I think over 20
years, you can look at the record, I have always been for employee raises. But if
you can give them three percent and we can't give the office of the Mayor three
percent, I don't think it's fair.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Ordinance No. 17-1742: An Ordinance Amending Title 1,
Chapter 6, Section 5, Meridian City Code, Regarding
Compensation for the Mayor of Meridian; providing for a
waiver of the reading rules; and Providing an Effective
Date.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read by title Ordinance 17-1742.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. City of Meridian Ordinance No. 17 -1742, an
ordinance amending Title 1, Chapter 6, Section 5, Meridian City Code, regarding
compensation for the Mayor of Meridian. Providing for a waiver of the reading
rules and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: You have heard the reading by title of ordinance under 11 -B. Do I
have a motion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we approve Ordinance No. 17-1742 with suspension of rules.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 84 of 86
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 11 -B. Any
discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll call: Bird, nay; Borton, yea; Milam, nay; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. TWO NAYS. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: I will ask that, Mr. Nary, you bring the ordinance or the requirement
on this compensation committee back to the City Council for a discussion. I
would agree with Council Member Milam that if this continues to -- our goal has
been to engage citizens in city government. If the work they do seems for naught
-- and the committee will tell you that that is the -- the feeling on this particular
thing, that maybe you need to -- to reconsider what you want this group to do. Or
not. This was something that a future council has decided that it seems like it
took the politics out and we have put the politics back in. So, maybe we need to
look at what do you want a group to do or maybe this is not something that the
city wants to do, because there is a sense that it is a waste of effort. So, just
giving you the feedback I have heard. Council, I was ambiguous on this and --
and I have appreciated the -- the discussion, but there needs to be greater clarity
on what is expected to be brought back to -- to this. I will say one other thing is
there is nothing in the ordinance in roles and responsibilities that salary is based
on what might be a family wage job based on the responsibilities of a position.
That seems kind of arbitrary and so by adding clarity to whatever you want this
compensation effort to do will be beneficial and so that we can have whatever
group, whether it's staff, whether it's the discussion that all of you need to have or
if it's the committee, that people know what -- what the expectation is. So, Mr.
Nary, I think at some point maybe in September or October we can bring this
back for discussion on -- we have two years, so it's -- there is no big rush, but I
do think that it warrants a discussion.
Nary: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I appreciate the recommendation. That's one I agree with. But I think
it's important -- at least from one Council Member's perspective -- and I think we
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 85 of 86
heard it from -- I think from everyone is I really valued the compensation
committee's recommendation. I appreciated the process and to your point I -- I
think it does take the politics out of it and I still feel that the politics were taken out
of at least my decision, but if it's important for us to maybe hear from those
committee members as to why they felt that the process wasn't as -- you know,
what they had hoped it would be, I think it -- on any occasion this Council hears
from citizen committees on any number of issues and sometimes we take their
full recommendation and sometimes we take a part of it and sometimes we take
none of it. This is just a case of this committee we hear from every two years
and it just so happens that in this instance we didn't take their full
recommendation. To me that doesn't negate the process. It doesn't negate what
they do. But if having them and reevaluating this, I'm open to that discussion, but
I, for one, was very appreciative of the compensation committee and the
recommendations they brought forth. I think Council Member Palmer articulated
-- hit it on the head, their job is to bring what the position is worth and they did
that.
De Weerd: Okay. So, we will put that back on a future agenda.
Item 12: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further for Item 12, Future Agenda Topics?
Item 13: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 74-206(1)(f): To
communicate with legal counsel for the public agency to
discuss the legal ramifications of and legal options for
pending litigation, or controversies not yet being litigated but
imminently likely to be litigated.
De Weerd: Okay. If not, I would entertain a motion under Item 13 to adjourn into
Executive Session.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 74 -206(1)(f).
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session. Mr.
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, absent.
Meridian City Council
July 25, 2017
Page 86 of 86
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSIONS: (10:22 p.m. to 10:50 p.m.)
De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Bird: So moved.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Bird: So moved.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:50 P.M.
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