Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAbout01Dec20Melidian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 2 Item 4. Continued Public Hearing from December 6, 200'1: MI 01-00'1 Request for a Street Name Change from East Fimt Street to Main Street from Cherry Lane / Fairview Avenue south to East Central Drive or Overland: Borup: Thank you. Okay. The first item will be Item No. 4, a Continued Public Hearing from December 6~h. We did not hear this item, but it was a request for a street name change for East First and the staff prepared for an update, but not -- I think on this item I don't know if it's necessary, unless the Commissioners need some more information. Have all of you had a chance to read your packet? I think we have a history of the project back from -- back from '98 when it was first proposed by the City Council and then subsequent from that point. Do any Commissioners have any questions on the history?. Okay. Brad, I guess the Commissioners feel comfortable with the information, unless you had anything you thought you wanted to -- Nary: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Nary. Nary: I just had one question, Brad, and maybe I simply missed it in here. I did see where the Fire Chief said there wasn't a concern from the Fire Department being able to respond to calls. Does the postmaster need to have any letter or approval or something like that for a name change or do they have any input? If it's in there I just missed it. I'm sorry about that. Borup: Maybe one item that might be worth discussing and that's on the length. All we have talked about is starting at Fairview. initially the Council members were talking at one time about having it run clear to Overland and the County Street Name Committee proposed having that it connect at -- where it intersects with Corporate -- no. East Central. That's East Central. That's right where the curve is anyway. I mean right now Overland lines up with Meridian Road. East First is the one that curves. So that was the Street Name Committee and I believe some of the others also and I guess in my -- and that would be my first choice also. It seems like the most sense. I don't know if any other Commissioners have any other thought on that. If you look on the map you can see how Meridian Road is the one that lines up. Okay. Any discussion frem any of the Commissioners before we go into public testimony? Centers: Mr. Chairman, it was my understanding that the post office would continue to delivering mail for one year to the East First address. r Borup: That's my understanding based on the information we have, that they'd use both addresses for a year. That gives a year's trensition time. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 3 Centers: If that's the only concern is the cost for the businesses to allow them to change their letterhead and business cards and - Borup: Yes. Depending how often they change that and hopefully a year is enough time to help with that kind of transition. Do we have anyone here to testify on this? Come on up, sir. State your name and address for the record. Stewart: Yes. My name is Terry Stewart. I own Benny's Pawn down here on East First. I have been there for several years. Approximately 12 years now between there and I have one up here closer to -- on the other side when they went through the remodel and then I built the building and moved down there. The cost to me individually is my FFL License, which is licensed through the Federal Government that will have to be changed because all of my firearms that I order and come in will have to come to the address on my FFL License. Borup: How often does that renew? Stewart: My next renewal is 2003. Borup: Okay. Stewart: So that would have to be renewed. All my vendors that I purchase my firearms from would have to be sent new FFL License to each and everyone of them, which is not a lot, but there is about 10 to 12 different addresses that I would have to send those to. Of course, then, I just had my pawn slips all redone. It's -- I just ordered those, 10,000 of those, that's about two and a half years of my pawn slips that I send out or I write each and every day. Borup: How long ago did you order those? Stewart: Less than six months ago. I order them in 10,000 increments so that I can get a cost reduction on my printing at that point. Then also I have also my card -- my individual cards, which is not a big thing. They will have to have those printed up probably next summer the way things are going. My yellow pages have just come out. So all my advertising for my yellow pages, the books and that that just came out. My customers know where I'm at. They have the address. Or that comes along. My renters at Valley Video -- it's my understanding that he has over 20,000 movies that will have to be retagged and new addresses put on those, because if they are lost or misplaced, then they have someplace to take them back to. You spend the time putting your address out to your customers so they know where you're at and so they can find you and I don't understand why the need for the change of the address. If it's going to accomplish something, I wish somebody would tell me. Borup: The numbers aren't changing. Meddian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 4 Stewart: I understand. I understand the numbers don't change, just the name on it. Instead of my address being 451 East First, now it will be 451 Main and, that's fine, I can take care of that problem, but the other problem that you have there is your advertising, getting your name out to the public so they know where you're at and that's why I'm not against this name change. If it's to accomplish something, you know, I'd like to have somebody tell me why. That's all have to say. Borup: Any questions for Mr. Stewart? Were you aware at all that this was -- motion was first made back in '98? Stewart: No, sir, I was not. This is -- when I first got the notice from the City of the name change, I think probably '98 was when they -- let's see, that was after they did the street remodel. That was in '95 or '6, somewhere back in that time. Now if they -- I don't know if you need to make it First East, if you want to make it Main Street in the corridor of town, I can understand that, but it is going to be confusing for a period of time for everybody and we are not even talking the cost to the City to change all the signs. I mean there are a lot of hidden costs that nobody's really addressed and with tight budgets the way they are right now, the money could be spent someplace else I think. Borup: Well, the street signs weren't hidden. That was one of the discussion items that they looked at and got a price on from ACHD. So you weren't aware of when it came up again in '99 either, then? Stewart: No, sir, I was not. If I had I would have come in and spoke up to it at that point in time, but I got my first notice, what, about a month and a half ago when they were sent out. Yes. If I would have been, then I would have come in and spoke about it then or I could have prepared for it if I had known it was coming. I would put off on my slips and other things that had to be done. When I renewed my license it would have reflected that at that point in time. There are things I could have done. You know, but right now you're looking at 2003, 2004 before my license comes up again. I mean I can do it, don't get me wrong, but there are a lot of things involved in this whole deal. Borup: When in 2003 does your license -- Stewart: December. Borup: So you have got -- could have maybe a year that would overlap there? Stewart: Well, let's see -- Borup: It would be next year before this would be adopted, I think we can guarantee that, at the earliest, and so you have got another year. That would put you into 2003. Meddian Planning & Zoning Commlsslon Mee~ng December20,2001 Page 5 Stewart: Right and it's December of that year, so -- Borup: Yes. You have got some whenever -- first of the year through to December. Stewart: But that's just down the read. Borup: Commissioner Nary have you got-- Nary: Just on that same note, Mr. Stewart. Does that cost you money or is it the time and paperwork and all of that? Stewart: Well, time and paperwork and all the other stuff that it goes to. My license costs me on a renewal, but I have to do that regardless of what it is. Nary: But the address doesn't have anything to do with the renewal. I mean the change in the address doesn't cost you money, it's just the time of preparing to change -- Stewart: Well, it costs me money and time and preparing and the forms. Nary: You don't have to pay a fee. Stewart: To them, no, I do not. Nary: Okay. That's what I wanted to say. Stewart: It's just an inconvenience to me and it's a cost to me and my time and the people I have do it for me is what it boils down to. I don't have to pay the government to do it, but I have to pay my employees to do it or do it myself, one way or the other. Nary: Mr. Stewart, you said your business has been there approximately 12 years? Stewart: Yes. I was incorporated -- not at building. I was up near -- next to the old -- where the real estate office is down here on East First. I pumhased some ground and I built that building down there with the renters on both sides of me. Nary: I think I heard you say a comment that your customers know where you're at. I mean do you think changing your address will impact your customers? I mean they know where your building is. Stewart: Yes, they do, but -- okay. Let's say that you're a customer and you -- yes, he's down on East First and -- well, it isn't East First any more, it's Main. Meddian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December20,2001 Page 6 People look for East First. What happens to East First Street? Do you just throw it away? I mean right now you have Meridian and East First and West First and it goes on out from there. Do you throw East First away? It no longer exists? It would be confusing for some people. I'm not saying it doesn't -- none of this is insurmountable at all. Nary: Sure. Nary: It's just an inconvenience for businesses and it's going to cost them. I couldn't tell you exactly, but it's going to cost them -- people up and down -- up and down the street a cedain amount of money. Nary: Thank you. Borup: Maybe one. Do you have -- we've had some letters from several others that have said that all of their customers have been -- when they tell them where they are at they say East First and then where it -- that and the answer is, well, it's the Main Street that goes through town. Have you had that same experience with people asking you -- you say you're on East First and they said, well, where is East First? Stewart: Well, when people ask me where I'm at I use the railroad tracks as a reference that runs through the middle of town. Anybody that's been in the valley any length of time knows where the railroad tracks are that runs through the middle of town. Borup: But Meridian crosses the tracks and Second crosses the tracks and they all cross the tracks. Stewart: Well, they afl -- on the Main Street that runs through the middle of town. Borup: You tell them it's the Main Street? Stewart: That runs through town. Borup: All right. All right. Thank you. Do we have anyone else on this issue on the street name change? I guess not. We did have -- I'm not sure if we had more than the one letter. Did we have more than one letter -- the one I read was on discussion and other testimony. Nary: Mr. Chairman, are you talking about the letter from Mr. Erhart? Borup: Yes. Nary: Yes. That's the only one I've got. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 7 Norton: Just for the record, Erhart has written his two businesses and he was in favor of the name change. Borup: And he has said similar to what Mr. Stewart said, when people ask where is East First he said it's the Main Street or main drag that goes through town. Okay. Any other Commissioners -- deliberations, discussion or recommendation? We've got the Public Hearing open still. Centers: I'd like to move that we close the Public Hearing. Shreeve: I'll second. Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor?. MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES Centers: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Centers. Centers: I guess as far as discussion, I think the primary reason for the name change is that most people do call it Main Street when referring to it. Borup: It's like the Main Street, but -- Centers: Right. Isn't that the primary reason? Borup: Well, that and I mean, obviously, the City Council has been talking about it since '98 and then I think they kind of forgot about it and brought it up again in '99 and it started happening in 2001. Centers: I think other members of the Commission know me well enough that I -- you know, I look at the turnout and we've sent out about, I don't know, 80 to 90 letters and we had one individual appear and testify, so -- Borup: And we continued it last time, because we thought there might be some more that would want to come. Norton: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Norton. Norton: Could we ask staff if they had contacted the businesses along First Street individually, send them letters before two weeks ago just to give them a heads up on this? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 8 Berg: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, Commissioner Norton, I had a couple of individual students go to the businesses and hand out the notice saying that it was rescheduled for tonight personally to owner or manager or somebody of interest to that business. Borup: So you did that in addition to the letters? Centers: To the first lette~ Berg: In addition to the first notice. Borup: Wow. Centers: You told them it was continued to tonight? Berg: Yes. Centers: So they got two notices. Borup: A letter and then a hand-delivered flier to the business. Berg: Mr. Chairman, it's -- the original letters go out to the property owners, which may not be the business owner, so that was the intent to cover the business owner, as well as the property owner. Borup: Does that answer-- Norton: Well, was there anything -- I know it sounds like the City Council dealt with this several -- maybe in '99. Borup: From what I could tell. I don't think there was notice given at the City Council meeting. Is that correct? Berg: Mr. Chairman, there was some confusion about the process that we needed to go through for a name change. In our ordinance and in the County Ordinance it gives the Planning and Zoning Commission the authority to have a headng, if so desired, to have a name change and recommend that name change. So we went back to the original process of what we needed to do. There was some confusion about the process or procedure that we needed to follow. That's why you have it before you, because you are the body that needs to take care of that recommendation. Norton: Okay. Thank you. Nary: Mr. Chairman? Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 9 Borup: Commissioner Nary. Nary: I'm not sure if the Commission wants to hold this up for this particular reason, but in reading the City Ordinance here, 8-2-5, in Subsection E is where I think that Mr. Berg is referring to about changes in street names. I think at least from what information that we have here, it probably fits under the category which says that street name changes may be done for reason of duplication, similar pronunciation and spelling or for other reasons related to public safety or convenience and it appears that in the proposal that came from this committee, the Mayor's Ad Hoc Histodc Committee from '98, they are the ones that proposed this initially. That essentially what they are talking about in this report was there is basically some convenience for the public and that it is referred to that way commonly by many people. There is obviously, no public safety concerns. The Fire Chief has indicated it's not a problem in being able to respond to fires so it seems to be adequate. The one thing I didn't see in this and maybe if Brad has this information or if we to move this onto the.Council, that at least for the Council to have it. It says that the Commission shall take into consideration the number of existing addresses on the street, the length of time each street has used the name in question, the date of the original dedication of said street, and any other factors pertinent to the change. I didn't see that in the report as to how long it's been East First Street, if it used to be Main Street years ago, and -- I don't know that. So we might need that information at some juncture to support what the ordinance requires, at least an evaluation to be made before a name change is done, because I do think -- Mr. Stewart may be the only person who showed up, but I'm sure there are people that would have the same concerns with the time, expense, and cost. It does say, though, there is lot of consideration given to that and not delaying it for a year allowing a long lengthy period of time. Now I understand from what Mr. Stewart's testimony was that may not satisfy all of his concerns, but in reading the ordinance further down it appears to me that once the name change is enacted, it can be enacted within 30 days, which would be I think more of a hardship and I think it's a legitimate hardship for many businesses if we change it in that short of time period. I think by granting a year, that's at least a plus for allowing something like that, but that was just something I noticed that I didn't see in the report in regards to how long it's been that. Maybe Mr. Berg knows. Did you live here when it was Main Street before? Berg: Sometimes it seems so. Mr. Chairman, I believe that the 30-day time period, then, for a safety reason, a very serious concern, so there is a little bit more of a quick response time for that, the length of time -- we would have to check with our historian to find out how long it's been named that. Obviously, the streets are labeled east and west from Meridian Road. So Meridian Road has been here probably a lot longer than any other roads and depending on how the town is structured and the land parcels were acquired probably determined how the roads were made. The north curve, which some of us remember, was a north curve and now it's just kind of a semi-small little curve. So things do Meddian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 10 change according to how people build out their parcels of ground. We can probably get that information and check on it with your recommendation for the Council to have another hearing to get that information. Nary: Yes. The only other comment I would have, Mr. Chairman, is I mean - and I did -- I do concur to a degree with Mr. Stewart, it can be confusing to some people, but I think City Code does take that into consideration in trying to grant the time and trying to allow for these things to be done gradually, which I think is what is being proposed here. In the City of Boise they don't have a Seventh Street and people get confused occasionally, because it's Capital Boulevard. There is no Seventh Street in the main part of town, but most people figure it out and it's not that big of a deal. They get by. Borup: Comments from the other Commissioners? Then do we need any other discussion on the length? At the beginning I had mentioned from Fairview to East Central where the light is there. Is that -- Centers: At KFC? Borup: Yes. Right. Right past there that the -- I think East Central or the street that goes into Winco and those businesses there. Nary: So, Mr. Chairman, if we did that there would be no East First Street at all correct? Borup: Correct. Nary: And that makes the most sense to me, too. I think it would be even more confusing if it stopped at Franklin. Borup: And then have a little section -- Nary: Have one section of East First and then it becomes -- it confusing enough to people when you tell them Fairview becomes Cherry Lane at Meridian Road, that I don't think we need to do that again. Centers: The only other comment I would have, Mr. Chairman, is that I think people call it Main Street now and they'll call it Main Street, of course, if the Council approves it. I can see a time frame of no sooner than 2003. January of 2003 and call it Main until then anyway, and then it gives the property owners plenty of notice and Mr. Stewart his license and that type of thing, as far as the legal name change. Norton: Does that sound reasonable, Mr. Stewart? Stewart: That would be fine. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 11 Norton: 2003. Bomp: The formal implementation of it. I think the way it is now the street name would change right away or in time, but the Post Office would still keep delivering to both addresses. Centers: Then we would have two years. Borup: Well, if we waited another year, then it would be two years. Norton: I thought that there was going to be double -- double signs, East First and Main, for a while. Did I read that? So there will be double signs, East First and Main, for a year?. That's what I thought I read. Hawkins-Clark: Chairman Borup, Commissioner Norton, I think that that is the way that the minutes from the Council read. I think that would certainly be up to your motion as well if you want to include that. Borup: Are you proposing the double sign be there for two years then? Norton: We are talking January 2002 is in two weeks. Borup: Right. Norton: So we are talking like one year. Nary: January of 2003. Borup: Before the new signs even go up? Nary: No. No. No. Centers: No. Excuse me. Borup: I was confused where these two years comes in. Centers: The legality of the name change. My thought was that if we made it 2003, January of 2003. Borup: When the old signs would come down? Or what happens in 2003? That's when it -- Centers: Becomes the City Ordinance I guess you would say. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 12 Borup' Well, then I misunderstood how it is. I had understood that the actual name change takes place immediately when the ordinance is adopted, but the Post Office will keep delivering to both names and both street signs would be up for that year. The legal name would be Main Street. Is that correct how I interpret that? Hawkins-Clark: I believe so, Chairman. Borup: Isn't that the way you other Commissioners understood that, too? Nary: What I had understood, Mr. Chairman -- Borup: Commissioner Norton agrees. Nary: What I had understood in looking at this is that -- it's like you said, that it would become -- it would become Main Street within -- well, no sooner than 30 days after the ordinance was passed. They would put up two signs so that people would have a reference point and I'm going to guarantee that if we are going to say Main Street, they are going to go which one is that and you will say East First? Okay, now I know what you mean. It doesn't matter how we -- people are always going to be confused for some degree for a while but it would be that immediately and they continue to deliver the mail for a year. Borup: Right. Nary: So I think what you're saying is correct. We could also in the motion recommend to the City Council -- they could enact an ordinance at any point. They can enact the ordinance and have an effective date set. Borup: Right. Nary: 90 days later or 180 days later. I think they can enact it whenever they wanted it to become effective, so they can give even more lead-time if they wish and then in the motion we could include that if we want to. That was my thought. Borup: I don't know that the signs would be up in 30 days. I don't know what their lead-time is on having the signs made either. Nary: All the City Ordinance, Mr. Chairman, says is no change shall become effective for at least 30 days after the official action by the Commission. So in recommending it go to City Council that they have to approve, it in that recommendation we could recommend a time period for this to be effective as well. Centers: That was my thought, Mr. Chairman. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 13 Borup: But are you -- Centers: I thought to stretch it out there as far as reasonable to give the property owners plenty of advance notice, that there would be an article in the paper, and effective January of 2003 it's going to be -- the ordinance would be effective then in 2003. Borup: Well, if the ordinance is not effective, then, you wouldn't even change the street name then. Centers: You wouldn't have to. The signs wouldn't have to go up. Borup: So that puts it out to 2004. Centers: No. Borup: If both names are on for a year it would. If the ordinance didn't go into effect until 2003 and then you left the signs up for a year that would be 2004. Centers: Well, we could also say that the signs could go up within 45, 60 days. Borup: But I don't think -- they are not going to make signs and put them up without an ordinance in place. I mean I'm speaking for someone else, but I wouldn't think so. Centers: Whatever. I don't want to belabor it I'd just like to give the property owners -- Borup: Well, and that-- I mean maybe that needs to be handled in -- Centers: Even though most of them are not even here tonight. Shreeve: Well, I think listening to everything that's been discussed, really, by the time that the City Council gets this, approves this, they -- even 30 days, we are still looking three or four months down the road. You know, the businesses have been notified, they are looking at a year later. Really from today you're almost looking a year and a half down the road. Borup: That's what I'm thinking that's probably reasonable. Shreeve. As far as our time is concerned so I would recommend that we initiate it tonight and send it on to City Council and -- Borup: I think all City Council -- they just need to act on an ordinance, don't they? I mean vote on one, but the approval would actually be done tonight and then I guess they would either go with our approval or amend it. It sounds like Meridian Planning & Zoning Cornnnisslon Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 14 we may be saying whatever time it takes to enact it is fine. We want the double street signs to be up at least for one year. If it takes another four months to get them up, it needs to be in place for at least a year, which may be a year and a half from now and as speedy as government moves it may be longer than that. Okay. Is that -- are we in consensus on that pretty well then? Are we ready for a motion and move on? Oh, one other thing. The Fire Chief said he would like to see a north and south designation, Franklin Road as the mid point. Is that where our north and south is at this point? Okay. Well, that's just being consistent -- that's just consistent with the numbering already the way it already is. That's not a change, that's just -- Nary: It's probably required by the ordinance is what I would think. Shreeve: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion. Borup: Commissioner Shreeve. Shreeve: That we -- first of all, I guess we need to close the Public Hearing. Borup: We did. Shreeve: I'd like to make a motion that we approve MI 01-001, request for a street name change from East First Street to Main Street from Cherry Lane / Fairview Avenue, south to East Central Drive, with -- well, yes, with the north- south destination points on that from Fairview -- Franklin. Excuse me. Franklin. Is that all? Nary: That it would go from Fairview to Corporate Drive? Borup: No. East Central. Nary: East Central. I'm sorry. Shreeve: That's my motion. Borup: And did you want to say anything on the double street signs would be up for a minimum of a -- Shreeve: Yes a minimum of a year. Double street signs minimum of a year by the time the ordinance -- Borup: Was enacted. Any other-- there is a motion. Do we have a second? Nary: Second. Borup: Motion and second. Any discussion? All in favor?. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission Meeting December 20, 2001 Page 15 MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES. Item 5. Public Hearing: CUP 01-041 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for an Equipment Storage lot in an OT zone for Tates Rents by Tates Rents - northeast corner of North Meridian Road and East Ada Street: Borup: Thank you. Okay. Item No. 5 -- well, Mr. Hawkins-Clark has -- before we even open that up, is there some information on that that you have .for the Commission? Hawkins-Clark: Yes. Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, Item No. 5, the Conditional Use Permit for Tates Rents, that was a recommendation given by staff at our front counter approximately three months ago. Our understanding at that point was that that property was zoned Old Town. That storage use in the Old Town designation requires a Conditional Use Permit. We did not discover until about a week ago that that is the only parcel in the stretch between Fairview and Franklin on the east side of Meridian Road that is not zoned Old Town. That parcel was rezoned approximately three years ago to a C-G designation. So essentially we told the applicant wrong information. We told them that they no longer had to do a Conditional Use Permit. The storage use for the Tates is an allowed use in the C-G zone. They do have potentially some issues with meeting the Landscape Ordinance, since they do have Meridian Road frontage and the Landscape Ordinance required 35 feet, they will probably have to potentially seek a variance or some other administrative to meet that. In essence, we have agreed with them to refund the administrative fee for that application, because of our error and we are working with them on that. Norton: Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Norton. Norton: Okay. The administrative fee was 283.50 dollars? Hawkins-Clark: Yes. Norton: And when will Tates Rents get that money? Hawkins-Clark: Well, they will get it as soon as the Accounting Department is able to refund it. Norton: How soon? Hawkins-Clark: I do not know their time frame. I'm sorry.