9-7-04 Precouncil Minutes
Meridian City Pre-Council Meetina
September 7.2004
The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 6:00 P.M. on
Tuesday, September 7,2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Bill Nary, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle
and Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Gary Smith, Brad Watson, Bill Nichols, William Musser, Kenny
Bowers and Will Berg.
Item 1.
Roll-call Attendance:
~ Bill Nary ~Keith Bird
~ Shaun Wardle ~ Charlie Rountree
---X- Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2.
Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we adopt the agenda as published for the Pre-Council meeting.
Rountree: Second.
Nary: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as published. All
those in favor, say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3.
Discussion of Black Cat Sewer Trunk by David Turnbull and
Frank Varriale:
Turnbull: Thank you Madame Mayor, Councilman Nary and members of the
Council. We have between Frank Varriale and I we own a substantial amount of
property out in the Black Cat, Ten Mile area. We have been planning our
projects together as most of you know and they have had some discussion
previously with Brad Watson about the Black Cat Sewer Trunk Line, which will
service the majority of that property. We made the request to Brad to start
moving on that project with design and construction. He indicated to us that he
would need to get the direction from Council to approve commencement of that
project so we have made that formal request to the City and have discussed it
with the members of the Council and the Mayor. So, we are here to make that
formal request. I think we have given you most of the background on it,
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previously and if you have any further questions, we'd be happy to answers
questions at this time.
Nary: Council, do you have questions for Mr. Turnbull or do you want to hear
from Mr. Watson first?
Bird: I'd like to hear from Brad first.
Watson: Thank you Mr. President, Mayor and Council members. I don't know
that I have a whole lot to add. I have met with Mr. Turnbull on this issue and he
paraphrased exactly what I said. This is not - this area is not in our capital
improvement plan at this time. It is in our master plan. We have a preliminary
design. We have cost estimates for it. With the other projects that we are doing,
it just wasn't something that I would out of the blue propose that we do unless the
Council directed us to. The only, maybe somewhat complicating factor in this is
as you know the area north of Chinden is being studied as we speak and the
results of that should be in by the end of the month and that might change this in
a minor way. But, it would probably change the size of the lift station. So, the
cost estimates I have, may not be - well, they don't account for that area north of
Chinden. But, I can answer any questions you might have.
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad, is this line still going to need the lift station at Quenzer's property?
Watson: Councilman Bird, yes it will. This was originally designated as the area
that would contain the large regional station and it is just south of where this is
being shown. We will scoot it up a little bit. This is Quenzer's property here.
This is the lift station. Originally it was the large 10 to 11 thousand gallons per
minute station. As you are well aware, the major Black Cat Lift Station is now
down south of Cherry Lane. This would probably still be what I would term a
medium sized station in the 2 thousand gallon per minute range and it would
pump all the way back to the wastewater plant.
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Brad, if we go across Meridian or Chinden, how much - when JUB did the
overall thing here what six years ago when they did an overall study? This was
part of that overall study as I recall.
Watson: Yes.
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Bird: I forgot to bring my book today, but what would it entail larger sewer lines
or we usually put enough sewer line in to handle any access that would come
from there, don't we? I mean we are not right on the minimum inches of sewer
line when we do put an end.
Watson: Correct. Councilman Bird the impact at the area north of Chinden
might have on this system is that it could conceivably drive the depth of this trunk
into Black Cat Road somewhat deeper. Also, slightly upsize the size of this lift
station and also the size of the pressure sewer coming back here. But, again,
that was one of three options that JUB was going to look at. That may not be the
most cost effective.
Bird: Another follow up.
Nary: Certainly.
Bird: Thank you Mr. President. Brad, if we were to start on the engineering and
stuff at this point what are we looking at in a timeline of - and with the lift station
and everything, how long would that take to get this project under and finished
up?
Watson: Councilman Bird, I could give you a typical wishy-washy answer, but I
will try. Well, first of all there are no funds in the current budget or the FY 05
budget unless we divert it away from the Black Cat project. Usually, design is the
easier part of a sewer project. It's the easement acquisition portion. Although, a
lot of this would appear to be in the right of way. As an example, the Black Cat
Trunk was initiated, I think between 12 and 18 months ago. We are prepared to
bid out two major portions of that here in the next month to month and one half,
with about a year to 14 or 15 months construction timeline.
Bird: Brad refresh my memory also. I know that all but about 100 feet or so of
between Ten Mile and Black Cat will flow naturally flow through the Black Cat.
How much between McDermott and Black Cat will flow back towards Black Cat
or is there any, I can't remember?
Watson: Councilman Bird from our updated master plan it appears 800 feet on
the west side of McDermott or Black Cat, I'm sorry, could flow back to this.
Bird: Thank you. I think that's alii have questions for now, Mr. President.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
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September 7, 2004
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Wardle: Brad, just a quick question. You'd mentioned that this wasn't in the year
for fiscal year 2005. Have we had any thought as to how far down the road we
are looking? Was it '06 or --?
Watson: Councilman Wardle, no we have not traditionally programmed trunk
lines to be built in any specific year. All the trunk lines have been very
development driven or at the direction of Council where they wanted to see
growth. In fact, the facility plan is going through DEQ right now. They have
wanted us to designate a year for all the remainder of the trunks throughout the
impact area. I have dug my heels in it and I said no we can't do that because
once I put a date next to a trunk, then there is potentially a false expectation on
the part of the development community when that service would be available;
whereas, the way we do it now it gives you the flexibility and the ability to direct
growth where you want it.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Brad, if this were the desire of the Council to move on this particular
trunk line, what - not bumping anything, when could it be programmed?
Watson: Councilman Rountree if you directed us to, without moving funds in '05,
we would be able to propose as it as an enhancement next summer for the '06
budget. If you did want us to re-designate some funds in '05 then we would
simply have to go through the RFP process this fall and select a consulting
engineer and it would probably get kicked off January or February.
Rountree: Follow up. Would that just be for the preliminary engineering?
Watson: Councilman Rountree, I believe this is not quite the full preliminary
engineering we have now, but I would anticipate it being full designed and
easement acquisition.
Rountree: So, on that timeline when would you anticipate a trunk being
established?
Watson: Councilman Rountree if this was - I will just give a for instance if this
was initiated in January, typically the design, assuming easements are somewhat
attainable and can be completed in 12 months. The hesitation on all of this is
that the wastewater plant is not at capacity, but with 200 buildings permit plus a
month we are going to begin to bump up against that fairly soon and the phase
one project at the wastewater plant has an estimated 12 to 18 months of design
and at least a similar timeline for construction. So, I feel like I am starting to have
to be very careful about how many building permits we're issuing over the next
three to four years. Currently, the wastewater plant has a maximum month
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average flow of, I think in August it was about 4.5 million gallons per month.
What we believe the capacity to be is about 5.5 million gallons per month. We
usually don't peak until September.
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Brad, your time, that includes the lift station also, now that we don't have
to put a big two-story lift station in? Would that include the lift station being in
and going back to the plant?
Watson: Councilman Bird, I believe so. Again, the technical design is not that
difficult. It's finding the spot to put it in negotiated the easements for the pressure
sewer throughout that undeveloped property with Mr. Quenzer and possibly Mr.
Frank Johnson, who owns the other piece right now, but I understand that might
be up for sale. Those are traditionally the roadblocks to getting that built. But, I
am sorry - yes, 12 months would be sufficient if everything else was in place to
design both the trunk and the lift station.
Bird: Thank you, Brad.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Seems like there is two things that you need. One you need some
direction on whether or not the Council wants to see this particular trunk line
added to the capital development program and two we need additional capacity
in the plant either concurrently or before we look at either expanding existing
trunk lines, or adding additional trunk lines. Is that correct?
Watson: I think that is correct, yes.
Rountree: Okay, so any advanced planning on whatever trunk line it would be
would be in advance - could be an advance of the expansion of the plant, but
really couldn't come on line until after our plant has expanded, which is what a
couple of years away?
Watson: Councilman Rountree I believe that - not the best timeline, but not the
worst case, but we are probably looking at 2 y" years and that in area to get the
additional capacity on the most critical components at the wastewater plant.
Now, I am not saying - I guess this is more of a policy decision. If this was
approved and it was completed faster, that's not going to suddenly bump us up
over our capacity, but everyone needs to be aware that if we get to that point,
then the whole city is affected by lam not going to say the "m" word, but by some
sort of slowdown.
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De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess where I - where are you at with the number of permits? I
guess we have a number of applications out there and we know they are not
going to be developed. We know they are not going to be developed over night,
but how many more homes can you add and where does it become a critical
factor? If we maintain the current growth - I guess we need to look at some
scenarios too of how growth is occurring, how we are projecting it and if we can
accommodate it. We can have multiple applications out of approved
developments, it's the number of building permits is the critical point here. Is that
correct?
Watson: Madame Mayor I guess the critical point is when people move into the
houses and I don't know how to track that yet, but-
De Weerd: I guess based on building permits?
Watson: That's the best I have is based on building permits and it sure seems
like, right now, the correlation between building permits and the number of
approved applications is a fairly high correlation, the volume of permits and the
volume of applications are both at a all time highs. If the Council would like I can
go back and put together some data and maybe some graphs that maybe show
some intersections of where I would project that capacity to be exceeded based
on building permit projections. I didn't show up with that tonight because I didn't
know where this discussion was going to go. I showed up with costs and a map,
so I can do that if you would like.
Rountree: I think that would be very helpful. It would probably be helpful in
identifying the timing of the planning for additional trunk lines into the community,
but it would be very helpful to see if we are reaching critical mass in terms of
commercial and residential hookups in a capacity at the facility, even though we
have got a major construction project next fiscal year at the plant. As you
indicated, it's going to be several years before that's complete and in operation.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess it would be good now to start being a little bit more in tune to
where we are at in that process. If this were developer driven, would be still
having this same conversation or not? So, at what point do we feel that we are
beyond where we should be and I guess we need to see what our options are
and who is to say that we are going stay on the same growth trance that we are
on right now or if it slows down. Where those points meet is what I am
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concerned at is it about the same time we'll be adding that additional capacity or
not. Are we going to be short or is - I guess I just need more information.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I would also agree and I appreciate Brad not moving too far forward until
the Council had an opportunity to look at whether this was an issue we would
look at. My personal opinion, it certainly is something that will affect the overall
health of the city. I would like to see some realistic expectations as far as when
the plant can be on line, when some of these improvements can be on line and I
know, Brad, that you are just kind of ball parking now, but if we could resume this
discussion when we have that information it would be helpful for me.
Nary: Brad how long do you think it will take to gather that information? Two
weeks?
Watson: Mr. President the month of September we are meeting with Carollo to
find the précised scope of this design project, which includes the phasing and
schedules. I don't anticipate - well, we do have a workshop early next week or
early the following week, but in the next couple of weeks, three to four weeks
from now we will probably be sufficient.
Nary: Before we move on, Mr. Turnbull, Mr. Varriale, do you have any comment
or anything? Obviously, we need a little bit more information before we go
forward, but we are looking at probably a month before we would revisit this
discussion. But, I didn't know if you had anything else you wanted to tell us
before we do that.
Turnbull: No, I think that's appropriate. I would just add to what Brad said I think
we have a much easier project here than some that have been involved with
because we do have Mr. Quenzer agreeable to the lift station location and
pressure line. I think the Quenzers may have had some conversations with the
Johnson property, too and I think there are a couple of alternatives there. Brad
might know more about that than I do, but seems to me at the most we are
talking about one easement that needs to be obtained, so the rest of it would be
in right of way and should be fairly simple from that perspective. I think I have
also indicated or mentioned before that I am a firm believer that that area - I
don't own any property north of Chinden, but I am a firm believer that that area
everything west of Linder should be within the Meridian City impact area. I think
it just makes sense and I think I have mentioned that for several reasons,
number one you have property owners out there that want to be in the impact
area and number two the people that live out there in the future are going to fill
much more connected to Meridian than they are to Star or Eagle just because
the geographical boundary of that fence. So, this trunk line also helps to
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establish the service ability of that area for Meridian City and I think it is a great
benefit to the city and the public at large. So, we are comfortable with the fact
that you need to get more information understanding that the study with JUB is
going to be completed within the next few weeks anyway and that will give you
some further information there as well. But, as I mentioned before I actually
came to the city three years ago when some people out there were talking about
forming their own sewer district and I said I don't want to go that way, I want to
be serviced by the City of Meridian and be annexed into the City of Meridian. At
the time Mayor Corrie was mayor, he asked what kind of timeframe we are
looking at and I said about two years and that was three years ago. We have
been patient. I really haven't brought it up with the Council before because we
haven't been ready to go before now, but like I said, Mr. Varriale and I we have
commenced our planning. We actually submitted an application for that area. I
think that this kind of a project could be done a lot quicker than actually some of
the ones - and a lot simpler and maybe more cost effective than some of the
other ones have been done because we have very few easements to obtain and
the parties, at least the major parties agreeable to granting those easements.
We would look forward to continuing this conversation when you get more
information that you are requesting. Thank you.
Nary: Brad, October 5th, is that adequate?
Watson: I believe that will work, Mr. President.
Nary: If Council is agreeable we will just reschedule this discussion for our
October 5th Pre-Council meeting and get some more information.
Item 4.
Discussion of Rate Adjustment by SSC:
Sedlecek: Mr. President, members of the Council I believe in your packet you
have a memo from Sanitary Services regarding an annual rate adjustment, which
is part of our contract language. The rate adjustment is tied to the consumer
price index and I am sure you have all read it in detail and have questions. I am
going to go through the memo quickly. Basically, the CPI year over year is 2.4
percent increase and we don't take the full CPI because some of the parts of CPI
are not relevant to our business so we reduced that value by 10 percent, which
gives us a 2.16 percent rate adjustment. Then we also excluded landfilling fees,
which are part of everyone's payments that they make to the city. Obviously the
rates at the landfill are not changing so we are not going to change that portion.
We are only changing the portion that affects our cost. If you look on the second
page of the (inaudible) of the memo on table one it shows percentages by
system. Basically, we are going to change the residential rate by 1 percent,
which is 10 cents per month and the other basically between 1.2 and 1.8 is the
range of changes. We do have a new rate structure attached to the memo.
Commercial rates are going to go up about $3 a month on average. Residential
rates are going to go up 10 cents as I said. The rental on a toter cart will go up 3