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HomeMy WebLinkAboutSeptember 2, 2004 P&Z Minutes Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2. 2004 Page 16of81 conditions of approval, there is a paragraph three that begins on that page. I would follow over to paragraph seven on the end of -- on page seven, paragraph three, on the end of that I would add that we will accept the applicant's commitment to leave the portion of the ditch that they have already agreed was Cloverdale Meadows Subdivision, either one or two, to leave open, that we are agreeing that that would be left open. End of motion. Moe: Second. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move that we forward to the City Council recommending approval of PP 04-029, request for preliminary plat approval for 20 single family residential building lots on 4.91 acres in a proposed R-B zone for Redfeather Village Subdivision by Packard Estates Development, LLC, east of North Eagle Road and north of East Fairview Avenue, to include all staff comments of their memo for the hearing date of September 2, 2004, received by the city clerk August 27, 2004, with one change. And that is -- Moe: Page nine. Zaremba: On page ten, actually, site-specific conditions of approval -- I'll come back to that in a second I think. And site specific conditions of approval on page ten, the bottom paragraph, page seven, again, as it carries over to page eleven, we will add a sentence that says: As agreed between the applicant and the subdivision to the south Cloverdale Meadows Subdivision, that that ditch may remain untiled and clarifying that the applicant has offered to build a fence on their side of it. And was there something -- Moe: Well, I was looking through special considerations under six as well, brings it up again for the ditches. Zaremba: Okay. The -- on page nine of the staff note, paragraph six has the same discussion, which later was turned into requirements and we will include in the discussion on paragraph six that there is a previous agreement to leave a portion of that named ditch untiled. Rohm: Second. Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Item 9: Public Hearing: CUP 04-029 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a daycare facility for 30 toAO children in an R-B zone for Condra Steeves Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2,2004 Page 17of81 Daycare Center by Condra and Donald Steeves - 1258 East Cougar Creek Drive: Borup: Okay. Thank you. Next item is Public Hearing CUP 04-029, request Conditional Use Permit for a daycare facility for 30 or 40 children in an R-8 zone for Condra Steeves Daycare Center by Condra and Donald Steeves at 1258 East Cougar Creek Drive. I would like to open this hearing at this time and start with the staff report. Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, this application is for a daycare facility, but I wanted to go ahead and point out that what the applicant is going to actually be running out of the existing home will be more of a preschool and we'll go ahead and address some of the details, including the operating hours and the schedule for that -- for that preschool. I wanted to go ahead and point out that for you information that the facility is for a preschool. That subject property is located in Cougar Creek Subdivision, which is south of Ustick and just west of Locust Grove Road. And J wanted to go ahead and show you -- this is where the subject property is located. It sits in the middle of Cougar Creek Drive and there is an aerial of the property. And this is the site plan. Let me know if you have any problem seeing that. We also have -- you should also have a printed copy in your packets, if you have trouble reading that site plan. And I wanted to go ahead and point out, before I got started, the packet that the applicant had submitted for this project and I have been working as a planner for five years and this is definitely one of the most amazing pieces of homework I have ever seen an applicant put together -- put together. The -- when we initially met with the applicant we told them one of our primary concerns was going to be the impact of this daycare potentially on the neighborhood and we told her that it was going to be critical that she not have opposition from the neighbors if there was going to be any chance of this application being approved. And the applicant has submitted both a petition from the neighbors of the subject property saying that they are in favor of the project and she's also submitted another petition for neighbors who are neighbors of an existing daycare facility or preschool that she's operating in another neighborhood. And there is one letter of opposition to this project and I think the applicant will speak -- or the applicant's representative will speak to that. They have, from what I have been told, have recanted and submitted another letter, saying that they are now in favor of this application. Just want to say this is a very impressive piece of homework that they have turned in and if I had had this last week when' ran the report, I would have rendered a different report. But I still want go through some of the concerns that I initially had when I was working on this report and I will tell you how some of those concerns were addressed through -- through the submittal the applicant has brought in today. Our primary concern was that this daycare operation -- here is another site plan. It's in a residential setting. It's surrounded by single-family homes in an R-8 subdivision. 'have found out, since I originally wrote the staff report, the subject property immediately to the west of the home is, actually, a group home. Those aren't registered and they are not permitted through the planning department, they are considered to be a single family home, but it is a commercial use that is immediately to the west of the subject property. But our main concern is that potentially we have 30 to 40 children and the traffic that is going to be generated by that "- by the daycare facility with that volume and the noise impact on Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 18of81 the neighbors, but the applicant is -- the submittal that the applicant has brought in shows that they have support from a large enough number of the neighbors for this project. So, a lot of my concerns have been alleviated through this submittal and the proof that they have done a lot of homework, had a meeting with the neighbors, and gotten their approval on the project. I believe there is a number of neighbors who are going to speak in favor of the project this evening. I do still want to go through some of the site requirements for this project. But the first of these the applicant is not able to meet the landscape requirements for this site due to site constraints. They are not able to meet the required landscape buffer, because of an existing home, and they are asking for alternative compliance and we are asking for the applicant to go ahead and give us some more details on what they are going to do in exchange for an alternative compliance request, if they are going to put in some additional trees, bushes, fencing, we need some more details on what the alternative compliance will consist of. And, then, the second main issue -- this was an interpretation I went for -- for the Commission to make, if you want to make a recommendation on this, is the parking in the driveway. They are requesting to use two parking spaces in the existing garage and two compact parking spaces. And the one in use, three parking spaces in the existing driveway. Now, the issue that's opened up to interpretation is for you to make a recommendation is what -- what should the setback be for those required parking spaces. The code for the R-8 Subdivision has a setback of 15 for living areas and 20 feet for garages. This parking in the driveway doesn't clearly fit into either of those two. So, there is an interpretation for you to make whether you believe it meets the intent of it being closer to the living areas, with a 15-foot setback. If you decide that it really needs a 20-foot setback, they'll need to go forward with the variance when they go to City Council with this application. So, go ahead and keep that in mind. So, those are my two primary concerns about this site and I did also want to point out that while this applicant has done a lot of homework, that when this application is permitted, a conditional use on this site wouldn't -- it doesn't -- wouldn't transfer with the owner. It runs with the land. So, if someone else were to come in with a daycare they would be able to move in and just kind of do a change of ownership and it wouldn't go through the same process again. So, I just want you to keep that in mind, too. That this -- this permit would run with the land. So, with that, do you have any questions of staff? I know I have kind of flip-flopped a little bit, but on my original recommendation for denial they have presented a very strong case and done a lot of homework with neighbors. Borup: Okay. Any questions for the Commission? Or from the Commission? Zaremba: This may be a question to the applicant, but do we have knowledge of the state required ratio between students and workers? I guess my question is is two workers enough for 40 students? Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, I will have the applicant address that. From what I understand, they will be receiving state licensing. We don't enforce the state daycare requirement as part of this permit. Zaremba: But it affects the parking -- the number of parking spaces. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 19of81 Kirkpatrick: It does affect the parking. They -- in order to meet parking requirements, they can only -- they could have a maximum of 30 students. Zaremba: Okay. Kirkpatrick: And two staff members. Borup: And, Commission, maybe the amount on that line with whom the applicant can address here, but some of the letters we have stated they are going to not have the students there continuously, there are only 10 to 15 students per session, in four sessions a day. Zaremba: And the original letter, , believe, from SNL or SLN planning only states 30. Borup: Right. Yeah. They didn't explain the session, so we can get some clarification on that. I'm assuming that if that was the case, then, the ratio would be a lot less. It would just be the number of students in there at that time. Zaremba: Then, I would add one comment. You referenced that we had one letter opposed and in our packets we have a letter from Dave and Wyn Wildeman stating some objections to this project. That letter is dated August 30th, 2004, received by the clerk August 31, 2004. In the packet provided by the applicant there is another letter from the same people. Dave and Wyn Wildeman, dated September 1 st, 2004. So, two days after their original letter, in which they state, just to summarize, that they have met with the applicant and applicant has made some promises that overcome their objections and so they are, essentially, writing this Jetter that -- they don't reference their earlier letter, but they are writing this letter, I believe, essentially, to come down on the side of agreement with it. That's alii had to say. Borup: Okay. Anything from any other Commissioners? All right. Would the applicant like to make a presentation? Nickel: Good evening, Mr. Chairman and Commissioners. For the record, Shawn Nickel, 52 North 2nd Street in Eagle. I am representing Condra Steeves for this application this evening. Thanks to Wendy for her staff report. I think we are really close to having her change her recommendation once she did see that packet that we did submit and I do compliment my client as well, they did go out and I think by -- they held a neighborhood meeting first in which they sent out 54 letters to the surrounding neighbors and, then, they went and walked the neighborhood and met with everyone that would talk to them on the street to explain in more detail exactly what this use was going to be. As you know, we have to post the site, so there is a humungus white sign right out in the middle of the property that -- and to correct that, there is going to be a maximum 30 students on the site and that's what that sign said and I also had the sign maker put Condra's name and phone number on the sign, so if the people wanted -- had more questions they could contact her directly. So, she talked to some people that Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 20 of 81 way, but mostly it was by just walking and canvassing the neighborhood. She had 49 people on that petition that are immediately adjacent to the property and, in addition, she has 103 signatures from past and existing parents of her other facility that she operates. In addition to that, if you look at the last page, she has got a nice letter from the state senator and also from a restaurateur here in town, which I thought doesn't hurt the cause. Again, she did meet with the neighbors, she did give them some assurances regarding parking, drop off, noise. If you notice in the application, the hours of operation are 9:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m., Monday through Friday. So, with regards to traffic and people in the neighborhood leaving for work in the morning, I don't think there is going to be too much of a conflict, because the earliest time that parents would drop off their kids would be 9:00 o'clock and they are staggered throughout the day depending on those -- the times that those sessions start. They are two and a half hour sessions each. As far as the ratio -- and the state does regulate how many teachers per student and it's one teacher per ten students. So, with 30 students we'd have three parking spaces, plus the spaces for the teachers. I also want to point out that one of the teachers lives in the neighborhood and she's actually going to walk to the school, the preschool. Her teachers are licensed by the state. They are -- they do have the background checks that are required by states -- the state. There is not going to be a sign on the property, so what we are trying to do and what Wendy suggested very early on is that the character of the neighborhood is what's going to be important and that's why we are not proposing a sign in front of the property. As far as the location, if you look at, again, that map that Wendy put up there of the subdivision, this is right in the center of Cougar Creek Subdivision and the intentions of Condra are to draw from that subdivision, so moms can -- or dad's can walk their kids, if necessary, or it's convenient enough where they can drop them off on the way to and from work or whatnot. So, again, the location I think is appropriate. I think the use is. appropriate. Again, the neighborhood has a couple of other commercial uses, more specifically is that group adult care center or facility, which is immediately to the west of the property. So, I think that that alone makes it a little more compatible than say your standard subdivision where it's all single family residential. And, again, that -- those hours of operation, I think, are very important to understand, because of that overlap. Most of the people are going to be at work. I also asked Condra to explain to me how many kids would be outside at one time, because, again, you're in a residential neighborhood, you're going to have kids out playing, and keep in mind that this is a preschool more so than a day care center and so Condra told me that the kids, on average, are outside about 45 minutes a day is what they average outside at any given day and, then, during the winter months they are not out there at all, because I guess the state regulates temperature and how long the kids can be outside. So, I thought that was kind of interesting. Regarding landscaping -- and stop me at anytime if you want to ask me questions, I'm just going to keep rambling on here. Regarding landscaping, the code requires a 20 foot buffer for this type of use and as you can tell, because of this type of subdivision, because of the size of the lots, it's impossible to do that. So, what we're asking for is the alternative compliance with that ordinance. I didn't really put on the site plan any specific landscaping. I wanted to kind of get a feel from the Commission and from staff to see what they would recommend. However, we met with both of the neighbors on each side and the neighbor to the east doesn't care if we have any Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2.2004 Page210f81 landscaping or not along the side. I think what we would like to propose, as a minimum, is to have -- plant some new trees, a minimum of 35 feet from each other, along the boundaries -- I guess it would be the eastern boundary and the western boundary of the property, just to provide some sort of landscaping. As far as the rear of the property, there is a lateral on the other side of the fence and there is an existing chain link fence. What we propose to do is to slat that fence to provide a little bit of a visual buffer from the people across the canal and also to keep children from being able to climb up that fence and provide a little more safety for that. Regarding the parking setback, we didn't meet with Anna Powell before we submitted this application and she was, actually, the one that gave us the idea to request the 15-foot setback that the R-8 zone requires and if we apply the 15-foot front yard setback, our parking would be within that setback, we wouldn't have to ask for a variance. Also, so you know, that the way that it's laid out right now, none of the cars would be encroaching near the sidewalk, they would be completely on the concrete driveway. And the last thing -- and I just talked to Condra very quickly about this -- if you see it fit, she would agree to a condition of approval that if she was to relocate or leave, the daycare center would go with her. In other words, it would stop with her, it wouldn't be continued on, and I don't know if that's something that you are interested in doing, but she would be willing to do that, because of the promises, I guess, she's had to the other neighbors that she is going to do these specific things. I mean she feels that if she was to leave that, you know, rather than hoping someone else would continue that, those promises, she would just stop the facility once she is gone. I will just stand for any other questions you have. One other thing. You were correct, Commissioner Zaremba, that one letter was kind of recanted and that was the only letter that we received in opposition. I think there is a couple of people here that want to speak in opposition, but the majority of the neighborhood, once Condra got out and explained exactly what was going on, were very much in favor of this application. So, thank you for your time. Moe: One question I have for you, just so I -- I get the -- you said there is going to be two or three sessions a day for the school and at any given time there is going to be 30 kids in each session or -- or I heard somebody say 15 kids at one time or whatever. I'm trying to get an idea of just how many kids we are going to have in this -- Nickel: Thirty total at any given time. Moe: At any given time. Nickel: The applicant has told me that they come ten at a time. Moe: Well, the reason I'm asking that is we have a 1,390 square foot facility and 30 kids in there, you're giving them 45 square feet to deal with and this is a house, walls, bathrooms, everything else, we are starting to squeeze a lot of kids in a very small area. Thirty kids. And so I just wanted to get an idea of what we are talking about session wise, because 30 kids in that little small house is going to be pretty tough. Meridian Pianning & Zoning Commission September 2. 2004 Page 22 of 81 Nickel: That would be the maximum and I will have Condra get up and kind of explain. She runs another facility and she can kind of tell you what that - Moe: Thank you. Borup: Okay. Zaremba: I did have one comment, if I may, and it's a fairly minor thing, but I noticed on your original letter of July 1 st, 2004, that one of the features of the play area is a sand box and I know that the parks department prefers to use some alternate substance other than sand, because, apparently, it attracts cats who think it's a litter box and that wouldn't be healthy for children. So, is there any alternative that you can propose? Nickel: She just -- Condra just stated that she does cover that at night -- Zaremba: Okay. I agree that -- Nickel: -- when it's not in use. Zaremba: Okay. Nickel: If you forget it once, the cats will use it. I agree. Zaremba: Okay. Thank you. Borup: Okay. Does that conclude? Commission, questions? Did you say Condra had some -- Nickel: Yes. She will get up. Just some more questions for her. Thank you. Steeves: Hi. Condra Steeves, 7035 North Linder Road. To clarify, my classes come ten students at a time. One class might come at 9:00, one class will come at 9:30. We would have two classes, two teachers. It is 1,390 square foot, though our intention is to turn the whole thing into a preschool, which we have done at our other location. The state does have requirements of square footage per child, so we have to stay within the state. Is the house plan up there? I guess not. The house, when you come in, is a big room and, then, there is a bonus room and a master bedroom. All of them have been inspected by Central District Health. Those are our main classrooms. That's where the 30 children will be. It is a preschool. It is not a daycare. The kids are four, sometimes you have three year olds, but we have them potty trained. We don't do anything like that. And it is a teaching environment. They have their teacher. They are doing structured activities. So, you don't have them running through the house just trying to pick up -- and we have centers around the rooms that the children are actively engaging in projects. There is also two rooms off to the side. One will be used as a computer lab and one as a circle time room. So, we have used the entire house plan as part of our preschool setup that way. Also, our parents come in car pools. There is not one class Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 23 of 81 that doesn't car pool. The people who -- I already have people who want to move there that are at my site right now and would love to move over there. That was why I targeted that area is I have so many children who live near there. And from when class -- I can tell you right now -- which could change next year, but I always do encourage car pools. For one class at 9:00 o'clock when they drop off for the ten children, there is going to be four cars coming in and dropping off the children and leaving. Half hour later we are going to have six cars come in and drop of their children and leave. Monday, Wednesday, Friday, there is only two classes there. But on Monday through Thursday afternoon we have a pre-K class and also will run to Monday, Wednesday, Friday classes. So, on Monday and Wednesday you may have 30 kids -- you will have 30 kids there for an hour of the day. On Tuesday and Thursday you will only have 20. So, that's how we stagger our classes. It's very much an educational program. It is not a daycare, but for licensing we have to do that, because the state does not provide any means to have a preschool be considered school. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Any questions, Commissioners? Zaremba: I would only comment, as has been stated, we appreciate your putting together the packet of support and certainly from some impressive people that are supporting you. To reconfirm what Mr. Nickel said, though, I -- it looked like a scary project when I was reading the report and I personally am much comforted by the packet that you have supplied, but I have a feeling that my comfort applies to you only and not to a successor. Steeves: And that is -- Zaremba: And are you comfortable with what Mr. Nickels said, if we apply the condition that this conditional use would not survive your -- Steeves: I am more than comfortable, because a daycare of 30 children would not work in this home. I have seen daycares and they are not preschool. And I agree with you, a daycare center where 30 kids are dropped off at one time and stay all day, there is not cooking places, there is not eating places -- so, yes, I am very comfortable with that permit going with me. Zaremba: Thank you. Canning: Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, code is actually a little unique in that respect, that we don't allow transfers of conditional use permits for daycares. It's specifically called out that they need to come and get permission to transfer a daycare to a separate owner. So, it would come back before the -- I guess, it's Commission and Council, I believe, so -- Borup: If ownership changed that would automatically require a new -- Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 24 of 81 Canning: Right. It's the only CU that doesn't run with the land and the owner. It doesn't run with the land, it runs with the land and the owner. Zaremba: So, your statement is that we don't need to add that condition. Canning: Yes, sir. In a round about way, yes, sir. Borup: Okay. I think that would add some comfort to any neighbors that may have some concern, too, that that was understood. Okay. We do have an opportunity here for public testimony. We do have petitions and letters from quite a number. And with this -- I'm not sure how many are still going to want to testify, but we do have an opportunity for up to three minutes. But let's -- and' may not go through this on everyone, may just let some come up, but is Karen Finholt and Elaine Ackerman, do you still want to testify? Okay. Come forward. One at a time is fine. Finholt: Hi. I'm Carolyn Finholt and I live in the neighborhood -- Borup: Address? Finholt: My address is 1197 East Cougar Creek Drive and I have lived there for two years. It's a lease purchase and I'm seriously considering purchasing the home next summer. If this goes in I definitely will not purchase the home. There is the group home that's next door to where this daycare preschool is supposed to go in and the group home takes up all of the parking on the street almost every day and when they have their monthly staff meetings they take up every single space down the entire street. There is no leftover space for anyone else to park. Not to mention the fact that we have police calls there considerably quite a bit, because as in most group homes, sometimes the people that live in them get a little unruly and I don't think I would want my preschool child or grandchild to be going somewhere that's right next door to a group home that's got violent characters in there and I don't think anybody's thought about that, the safety of the children that are in that preschool next door to that group home. There are many times when the staff members are beaten up by the people that live there and the people that live across the street from them, which they went out of town on a vacation and left, they are always worried about their children's safety and they are across the street from the group home. Another thing I am very concerned with is the fact that the woman came to my home and she told me that everybody on the street, except for me, signed and was approving this and I thought that was kind of odd and she told me that my neighbors two doors -- yeah, two doors down to the right of me had signed it and would approve it and that they were going to send one of their daughters there, when I knew very well that was not to be true and I spoke to both of them today and found that was a blatant lie. I also found out that the people -- several of the people that she told me that had signed this petition had not signed this petition and are still against it and for one reason or another could not make it to this meeting. So, if they are going to lie about one thing, I'm wondering what all are they going to lie about. Are they going to lie about the sign? Are they going to lie about not putting a fence around the property? I mean it worries me when people start lying to -- Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2,2004 Page 25 of 81 Borup: Well, those are conditions that would be part of the application -- part of the -- those would be conditions as part of the -- Finholt: And it also worries me when I know for a fact that realtors do say that the price of the property will go down and Elaine will bring that up. And that's all. Borup: Thank you. Okay. Ackerman: Thank you. My name is Elaine Ackerman and I'm at 1210 East Cougar Creek and I don't know what I can say in three minutes, other than I'm pretty upset about this. I live directly next door to the group home and I can tell you what goes on next to the group home. I have teenagers, so they pretty much -- they know what goes on there, too, and I have talked to them and there is broken windows and like Carolyn said, employees that get hurt, there is lots of traffic, very, very, fast traffic that goes go down there. And if you look at the other ones you had up there, if you look at the street it's. -- actually, our point is -- and a lot of the petitions that she got signed and including when they came to me last night and told me even the president of the association signed it. Well, of course, he would. I asked the president to come down and see what goes down on our side of the street, because we are towards the very end just about and they don't -- they aren't impacted like we are. And the neighbors that could not be here tonight, because they are going out of town, we are directly impacted by the traffic and it gets really narrow right there, right where Condra wants to buy that house. And, in fact, the lady that's selling the house doesn't want to be there, because of the group home next door, so there is more concern than what you might think having that next door. And the other thing is -- my main thing is that you can say -- we can present it, whatever you want, and you can have this good plan and I know you have to abide by laws and such, but things can change. You can end up having, you know, how many student cars at one time. My understanding -- and this is what I heard from one of the neighbors, is that they are going to try to get the moms to car pool. That's not for sure. I don't appreciate all that traffic coming down there and I don't appreciate the value of my house going down in value and I am going to sell my home if this gets approved, too. So, I am very concerned about putting those kids there. And also for the group home, not only for anger and rage and employees that get hurt, there is also, you know, not meaning to, because they are not all there, exposing themselves. I mean that's pretty traumatic for a young person see that, too. So, I just have got a lot of concerns. And, then, also not residing in the house and it's going to be a business, right, it's not -- they are not going to reside in there, it's just a business, it's not our neighborhood. So, I know that I'm just one and -- here tonight, but I just wanted to present how I feel. And it sounds like she's just trying to put a good effort for everybody, but I still have my concerns and those are them. And thank you. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Maybe just -- I'm not sure how many houses are on Cougar Creek, but I count about 27 signatures on Cougar Creek. Hold on. We need to address up here and so we'd like to -- anyone else that would like to come up and testify come on forward. Meridian Pianning & Zoning Commission September 2.2004 Page 26 of 81 Irish: My name is Christy Irish, 5313 Joe Lane in Nampa, and I am actually here to assure all of you that Condra runs a very first class operation. This is the third year for my children to be going to her operation and she has been in this neighborhood that she's in now operating in and it's a very very controlled environment. She does an excellent job. Never ever would she ever put children at risk at anytime. As far as car pooling goes, it happens everyday, every year since I have been there. Everybody is very good about it, because no one likes to have 50 cars in the driveway at one time. As far as I'm concerned, the concerns that are being had at this point aren't really concerns, they can be put at ease very easily. She is an excellent operator. She's very organized and she does a very fine job at what she does. And she will make sure that everything is very well kept and kept up well and the children will be safe. Borup: Thank you. Irish: You bet. Borup: Anyone else? Kendric: Santha Kendric, 1076 East Cougar Creek Court, and my son has also gone to this preschool for three years and it is very excellent. They never have to have any kind of-- people just flock to them. The preschool is so good that by word of mouth everybody -- and they have huge waiting lists and it's just -- it's an awesome preschool. I have six spots at my house if parking is a problem. There are six spots that teachers, parents can stay and walk to that preschool. I live only one, two, three, four, five, six houses down from it and I walk down that street very often with my three little kids and I do not worry about a group home there. I see the people very often. They walk right by my house, they often -- and I don't -- I don't say there hasn't been a problem. I have never heard of a problem, but, obviously, I don't live next door. So, something could have happened, but I do not see any kind of problem there. I will still have my son go there next year. Hopefully, it's right there, so it's really close. Like I said, I offer my parking, I have got plenty there, and I am very for this preschool and think it's a wonderful program and I endorse it. Borup: Thank you. Kendric: Thank you. Borup: Okay. Who is next? Perry: Stephanie Perry, 458 East Cougar Creek Drive. We are the current homeowners of the residence we are talking about. We lived there for eight years. We, actually, built the home there and we want to come and say that we fully support this. But our children have gone to the Small House preschool for-- this is the fourth year and we also have nothing but the upmost respect Condra and Small House preschool. She runs a wonderful facility. We have no complaints whatsoever. We do live next Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 27 of 81 door to the right of the group home, to the east, and the way that it's laid out, you have the group home and the garage is setback to the right and so it has a very long driveway for sufficient parking of the group home. They do park on the street. But being to the right we do hear -- you know, see the most of the group home. We have lived there eight years and my husband and I have never seen anybody expose themselves. It may have happened, but we have never seen it. We see them walk up and down the street and go to Fred Meyer. There -- we feel that this will fit in perfectly in this neighbor. We would not -- like I said, we have been there eight years, so we do not want to just leave and have the subdivision go downhill. We want something that's going to be just as good as a residence or better for the neighborhood. There is several children that are coming from surrounding areas that will be walking. We have a fully fenced back yard with a locking gate. The children are allowed to play in the backyard, so they won't be allowed to go out front if there is any issues of the children getting hurt in the road. Let's see. We have tried to sell our home twice with a realtor and once for sale by owner with no success and I think that with the preschool there -- it's only run from 9:00 to 3:00. A lot of issues that we have with the group home are after 10:00 o'clock at night with the noise ordinance, with the basketball playing, the stereos, and in the evening while the employees would smoke, we would smell the smoke -- you know, never in the day, but in the nighttime with the windows open. So, I think also we have a lawn care company do our lawn care. We just purchased the lawn section of it May 1 st and so currently we have two trailers, a business truck, two of our own vehicles, along with two employee vehicles that come everyday Monday trough Friday. All of that will be alleviated, it will be gone, so -- along with the equipment that comes with the company. So, we also have a contract signed with Condra with our lawn care company that the front -- that the landscape of the whole area will be maintained on a weekly basis. Also shrub pruning, lawn care, weed eating. So, we will maintain the look of the residence. I guess that's everything. Thank you. Borup: Thank you. Zaremba: May I ask you one question? I'm sorry, Stephanie. There was a comment made about cars parking on the street, theoretically, for the facility next door to you. If I am interpreting the aerial view that's displayed now correctly, I see one car, I think, parked in front of that and no others on the street. Could you describe your experience with your ability to park or cars up and down street, if you would. Perry: The 15 passenger van that they have for the facility is always parked in front of the facility. The employees pull in and out of the driveway. There is probably -- probably could fit six or eight total, so like three or four deep double parked and so, you know, you will get people moving out to get new cars in and stuff, but -- but I didn't know they had a monthly meeting, but there are times when there are more vehicles than others, but not everyday, not even -- you know, probably once a month. But I didn't know that was why that was there. But to answer your question, you know, there is -- there is also other businesses like a -- that are run out of the homes, so some of the vehicles are there. There is also a rental property with a few families living there. So, there is a lot of parking from that home. So, to tell you the truth, I don't know where the Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 28 of 81 parking is coming from. I don't know if it's from one of those businesses also or just the group home specifically, so -- Zaremba: Thank you. Perry: Okay. Thank you. Davis: Paul Davis, 1315 East Cougar Creek Drive. I live three doors down and across the street. I am one of the early birds in the subdivision when it was being built and developed. What they are talking about, all the cars also have their families of these group home residents come visiting, too, besides the staff members. We have had problems with staff members drag racing in and out of that subdivision. We have called the police a few times about talking to them and stuff. But one thing I'd like to ask is if you go talk to the owners of the group home that run it, the development or corporation or whatever, to straighten up the individuals that are there attending the residents, to have them, you know, obey the speed limit through there at least. In the morning time when people are -- at 6:00 o'clock in the morning, there is a lot of drag racing in and out of there. Also there is a 25-mile an hour speed limit sign. We have had a deaf child and in the same individual in a wheelchair. I have myself called to try and get the speed limit lowered. We did get Locust Grove totally rebuilt where the canal runs. They put in a whole brand new bridge. Countless times I called the cops because it's a drag race through to get to Ustick and I am not going to have drag racing through the subdivision. We all have kids. We have animals. I like to have my animals out in front with me. My neighbors do, too. We all grew up together with our animals and we know each other. We play ball. Run around. I don't have a problem with it, but parking -- there is a big major parking problem, because there is an angle in there and it's hard to see, especially when the sun is going down in the west and it's a blind spot through there. People running through there 30, 40 miles an hour, there is going to be a big accident one day. So, you need to do something about the speed limit. That's what I would like to request. Lower the speed limit to at least 15 miles an hour. It's 25 right now. Borup: Thank you. Appreciate the comments. Appreciate your comment, but you realize that we have got no control over -- Davis: Oh, I have called everybody under the sun to try to get the speed limit lowered when the rebuilding model was on due to the fact that -- Borup: You talked to ACHD? Davis: Oh, everybody. Borup: All right. They are the ones that -- Davis: Nobody would do nothing. Borup: Okay. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2,2004 Page 29 of 81 Zaremba: Well -- and I would also comment that I do know they put deaf child area signs around places, so they should be reminded that that should happen. Unfortunately, that's not within our -- Borup: Is there anyone else? Bodily: Hi. My name is April Bodily, I live at 2728 South Simms Place in Meridian, and I just came here tonight in support of Small Hands preschool and Condra Steeves and from what I heard a little bit, I did feel like I should probably come up and take a minute to alleviate maybe some of your concerns. My children have been going there for three years and I also have a baby and I can't wait until he's old enough to go as well. Condra puts children first always. And I guess the hardest thing tonight is to sit and listen to so many people who seem to have more of a problem with the group home than the preschool. So, I just want to make sure that that is seen, that problems will not come from this. And perhaps maybe as, you know, new people in the community, we can make sure that maybe some of that is changed, because it sounds like they have not gone through the right channels to do that and perhaps that shouldn't be there. I don't know the law. But I do respect Condra for getting a permit, a use permit, trying to go through this. I know there is many people who just open this up and do this out of their home and just, you know, create more problems and she would not do that. It's a superior preschool, it's a learning environment, and I must say as a mother of small children and children who attend preschool, that you will not find safer drivers either. We are there dropping off our prized possessions and leaving them in the care of teachers and staff who love them just much or more than we do sometimes. So, I just wanted to go on record tonight and support that and ask that you, please, look at her separate from that group home, that I think this will do nothing but add good things to the neighborhood. The home will be maintained beautifully. As I mentioned, the hours our small, you know, parents come in and drop off. It's a short time. They drive carefully. And, you know, their main concern is children as well. So, thank you. Borup: Thank you. Is there anyone else that has anything new to add? Young: I am Amy Young, I live at 2690 North Milder Way, which is near the subdivision. I'm ecstatic that the Small Hands preschool is coming so close it's walking distance from my home. We walked it just last night and we found that I think the neighborhood will be presently surprised that Small Hands will actually clear a lot of the parking problem on the home. As the homeowner stated, she has several vehicles that are parked there and I -- it's very congested as it is right now and I think they will find that in the evening hours when there isn't any parking, because it is very brief when the parents come and go. I will be walking my child to preschool and we -- I've also got a car pool that right now we have to take them out, we have three moms that take them, we are walking the three children, so -- Borup: Thank you. Meridian Pianning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 30 of 81 Arnell: I am Corina Arnell at 2647 North Caribou. I'm also just connecting to this subdivision, so I am also very excited for it to get there, but I want to come and personally vouch for Condra and the kind of person that she is. My children -- this will be the third year that's she's going and like you have heard, she runs a very organized, concise, strict preschool. She expects a lot out of her teachers. I have never seen a teacher not know where each one of her children are in her classrooms. They expect a lot -- she expects out of her teachers, she expects a lot out of the parents that come. There is specific rules and I think being a home it just will go smooth. Condra, as you have seen, has lots of set rules and stuff for it. But she is very very organized and runs a great great preschool. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Brown: Todd Brown, 623 East Cougar Drive. My children have also attended Condra's preschool and I just wanted to come and vouch for her also. She runs a very professional organization and everything she does she does by the book. And also for the kind of person that she is I want to vouch for, because I know that from what it sounds, maybe the things aren't so great in the neighborhood right now, but -- and maybe the group home needs to work on their manners a little bit, but there will be nothing like that from Condra. In the past I've had dealings with her as my children were going through and everything she does she documents really well and she takes care of it and J think that the neighborhood will actually be better with her there. She has a calming effect on a lot of people and I'm sure that if there are issues, maybe with the group home, that Condra will be able to -- if anyone, to be able to help them to control their environment a little more. That's alii have to say. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Commissioners, do you feel you need anymore testimony or Zaremba: I personally feel that we have a pretty good understanding of the balance of opinion. Borup: Okay. Anything final that the applicant would like to say, either one of you, to do your concluding remarks? Nickel: Very briefly, Mr. Chairman. And I know Condra wants to get up and explain one thing to you. Very quickly, again, I think the key to the concerns with the traffic and the parking is - are the hours of operation. Again, 9:00 to 3:00, Monday through Friday. You're not going to have any weekends. You're not going to have any evenings. I don't know if you got a full size copy of the site plan, but if you look at the parking that's in this driveway, we can actually get three -- you can actually get three vehicles side by side on that -- in front of the garage and that's just to meet the standard parking requirement and you can actually get four wide if you wanted to. So, I feel that -- because Condra stated that probably no more than five vehicles would be there at one time, that we can probably handle the majority of the drop offs in the driveway and, then, maybe there might be one that would be out in the street. And when Condra and I talked earlier, one Meridian Pianning & Zoning Commission September 2,2004 Page310f81 of my suggestions was -- she can put some rules to the parents that are dropping off, one being no parking in the street or you can drop -- typically she has the teachers come out and escort the kids inside, unless the parents get out and drop the kids off, and so she can -- she can put some rules on her parents as far as parking in the street, that do no parking -- the parking would be in the driveway and that would also allow for back up and turn around and exit of the subdivision. As far as the speed limit, you're correct, only ACHD can mandate that and if you look at your packet and see how many signatures Condra can get for support of the subdivision, I bet she would be the one that could help petition ACHD, if need be, to try to lower that speed limit and I'm sure she would volunteer her services for that. And, finally, with all due respect to the neighbor that spoke initially, I guess I kind of question the danger aspect. If it's so -- if that group center is so dangerous, why would she want to purchase the house. It's something that, if anything, a regulated day care center or preschool, compared to I guess an unregulated group home, I would rather have a daycare center that's going to be regulated by the city and know that those conditions will be met at all times. So, I just wanted to point that out. Condra wants to get up and say a few things and if you have any other questions, I can address a few. Zaremba: While you're still there I actually have a question of staff. On page four of the staff comments, under special considerations, number two addresses the chain link fence. Mr. Nickels has proposed that they make it less climbable by slatting it. Is that a satisfactory solution? Kirkpatrick: That would work. Zaremba: Okay. Thank you. Kirkpatrick: I believe that since they are next to the canal, they can't put up vinyl or wood fence, because when they come in and do the burn, they want to make sure that it's chain link, so I think the slatting should take care of it. Well, you might want to place a condition that we get approval from NMID prior to City Council on that. Zaremba: Okay. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Steeves: I will be very short, because I know that there is other people waiting. I feel okay with the group home, probably because my background is in special ed and I taught in the school district and' did have special ed classes. I know what these people are like. I know that they can be violent. I also know how to handle it. I talked to Tim Moss today, the administrator of the group home; I talked about some of the concerns the neighbors had brought up. We had a good conversation. We talked saying that we would work together to try and make things better. He also told me that they take those guys out in the community normally around -- from 9:00 to 3:00 or 9:00 to 5:00, so that they wouldn't be there a lot of the time I would be there. That's what he told me. Also, I wouldn't put children in a situation where they would not be safe. The yard is fenced. Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2, 2004 Page 32 of 81 They stay in the back. Their parents walk them in. We walk them out. There is fences between the houses. So, my -- what I heard, the primary concern was the group home. I am not concerned. I have researched it and I feel it will be okay. Borup: Thank you. Wendy, do you have any final comments on anything? Kirkpatrick: No, I don't. Borup: Okay. Thank you. Commissioners? Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move the Public Hearing on PZ 04-029 be closed. Moe: Second. Borup: Motion and second to close the hearing. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Zaremba: I think I have already stated that when reading through the prepared documents I was alarmed and that I am greatly comforted by both the written presentation and the testimony tonight and the satisfaction that the CUP would expire if this applicant were not the owner and I think they have addressed the issues that have been raised and expressed a willingness for ongoing solution of problems. I'm inclined to recommend approval. Moe: In regard to the landscape buffer, are you in agreement with the change that they are requesting? Zaremba: Yes. I have no problem with that. Rohm: Okay. I think my only comment on this that lends support to this applicant is the fact that they are only going to be open from 9:00 to 3:00. If it was something where they were dropping kids off at 6:30, 7:00 in the morning and staying through 6:00 in the evening, I would have a little bit of reservation, but these shortened hours seems to be in keeping with the lesser traffic flow than what you have in the morning and in the evening. Borup: That being said -- Zaremba: Okay. In that case, Mr. Chairman? Borup: Commissioner Zaremba. Zaremba: I move we forward to the City Council recommending approval of CUP 04- 029, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a daycare facility for 30 to 40 children in an R-8 zone for Condra Steeves daycare center by Condra and Donald Steeves, 1258 Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission September 2,2004 Page 33 of 81 East Cougar Creek Drive, to include all staff comments of their memo for the hearing date of July 29, 2004, with the following changes - or, actually, additions. On page four, under special considerations, paragraph one addresses the landscape buffer and we will add a sentence that applicant agrees to work with staff on whatever alternative compliance may be needed. On paragraph two, we will add a sentence that the applicant has agreed to slat the chain link fence to make it more difficult to climb. And a second new sentence that says there will need to be approval from Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District to do that. And that's it. End of motion. Rohm: Do we want to -- Kirkpatrick: Excuse me, Chairman, Members of the Commission, I wanted to go ahead and make sure we verified the parking setback for the driveway. We didn't cover that. We covered the landscape buffer, but we didn't cover that driveway setback. Zaremba: Okay. This is discussion, not motion. Are you satisfied that the 15-foot setback is appropriate for this zone or do you need it to be 20 feet? The 20 feet, apparently, would not allow long enough cars. Borup: I would say the 15 feet setback is now for building in an R-8 zone; is that correct? Canning: Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, it says in resident -- that for living areas the setback would be 15. I guess my thought is that no portion of this building is really a living area at this point. It's a commercial area. And, therefore, the 20-foot setback is really the appropriate setback. Zaremba: Would it require a variance application -- Canning: Yes, sir. Zaremba: -- to get the 15? And if we make that suggestion, is that -- the suggestion that the variance be applied for before this goes to City Council? Canning: Whichever way the Commission wants to go on that. You can make a recommendation either way and, then, when it gets to Council they can decide if the variance is warranted. At that time you could follow up with the variance application is what I'm trying to say, if it were a condition of approval, yes. Zaremba: If we don't make that a condition of approval, then, they need 20 feet. Canning: Correct. Zaremba: Which knocks five feet off of the length of the cars they can park there. Is that correct? Fourteen foot long cars. Meridian Pianning & Zoning Commission September 2,2004 Page 34 of 81 Canning: If you put in a recommendation that they get a variance, then, I guess, then, you would be recommending that they have a variance. Jf you don't put a recommendation that they get a variance -- or a condition of approval that they get a variance, then, you would be saying that you're comfortable with the 15 feet. So, those are your two options, I suppose. Zaremba: I personally am comfortable with the 15 feet, which means we don't need to make further remark; is that correct? Canning: Correct. Borup: Okay. Moe: I would agree. Zaremba: In that case, I was previously finished with my motion. Rohm: Were you going to say anything about the trees that Shawn had mentioned that they are going to put on the east -- east and west side of the -- Zaremba: I did mention that staff would work out with the applicant the alternate compliance to the landscape ordinance. Rohm: Fair enough. Second. Borup: Motion and seconded. All in favor? Any opposed? MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT. Zaremba: Okay. Thank you, Commissioners. Thank you, everyone, for coming. Are we ready for a break? We will take a short break at this time also. (Recess.) Item 10: Public Hearing: AZ 04-021 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 10 acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Arcadia Subdivision by C7 Development - 3665 Jericho Road Item 11: Public Hearing: PP 04-028 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 33 single family residential building lots and 3 common lots on 10 acres in a proposed R-8 zone for Arcadia Subdivision by C7 Development - 3665 Jericho Road: Borup: Okay. We'd like to reconvene our Planning and Zoning meeting for this evening. Next item is Arcadia Subdivision. I would like to open Public Hearing AZ 04- 021, request for annexation and zoning of ten acres from RUT to R-8 zone for Arcadia