HomeMy WebLinkAbout2017-04-04Meridian City Council April 4, 2017
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:04 p.m., Tuesday,
April 4, 2017, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Joe Borton, Genesis
Milam, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer and Anne Little Roberts.
Others Present: Bill Nary, C.Jay Coles, Jaycee Holman, Bill Parsons, Josh
Beach, Burle Stokes, David Jones, Kyle Radek, Steve Siddoway, Jake Garo, and
Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X_ Anne Little Roberts X _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X_ Keith Bird
__X__ Genesis Milam __X__ Lucas Cavener
__X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: I'm going to go ahead and call tonight's meeting to order. Welcome
to our City Council meeting regular agenda. For the record it is Tuesday, April
4th. It's a few minutes after 6:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Mr.
Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us
in the pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Justin Jordan with Real Life
Ministries
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Is Pastor Jordan here?
There you are. Leading us in our community invocation is Pastor Justin Jordan
with Real Life Ministries. If you will all join us in the community invocation or take
this as a moment of reflection. Thank you for joining us.
Jordan: Thank you, Mayor. Let's pray. Lord, thank you for today and giving us
another day. Thank you for the City Council and the City of Meridian. Lord, I
know in my own life this rings true, our leadership capacity is driven by the
capacity of our character and so tonight just bless the City Council and all the
leadership Meridian that they continue to grow in character, that their leadership
can grow and so the city can continue to grow and be an amazing community as
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we already have seen. I pray for their families, pray for their leadership, and pray
you, Lord, tonight that as they dive into this meeting, Lord, that -- a lot of people
in this room, Lord, that they would hear the citizens of Meridian and with the
voices and things that are brought up, Lord, that they would make good
leadership decisions that's best for our city and I just thank you, Lord, that we live
in a country and in a city where these things can happen , where there can be
dialogue, and we can come together as a community to bring about the best for
not only mankind, but for all of the different people that are represented here in
the state of Idaho as well. So, Lord, I pray for the City Council, I pray, Lord, you
will continue to bless them and use them to make Meridian one of the best cities
to live in the United States. Thank you, Lord, that you have given us this place
and thank you, Lord, for your Son, for modeling to us what it means to lead and
to love well. We pray all in your Son's name, amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the Consent Agenda, Item J, the resolution number is 17-2002. Item
9-B the applicant has requested we -- to withdraw that application. 9-F the
resolution number is 17-003 -- 2003. Sorry. And Item G is the resolution number
17-2004. Resolution number for 10-A is 17-2005. Item B is the resolution
number 17- 2006. And Item C, the proposed resolution is 17-2007. And with
that I move we approved the amended agenda.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to appro ve the amended agenda. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Proclamation for Crime Victims’ Rights Week
De Weerd: Is Natalie Marty here? If you would join me at the podium. So, this
is a proclamation to celebrate new legislation that was just recently passed , but
also to recognize an issue that is in our community and many other communities
and so we appreciate you joining us. Whereas, Idahoans are the victims of
nearly 3,500 crimes each year, affecting individuals and communities, whereas
providing victims with knowledge of their rights and available services further
strengthens their ability to recover by restoring a sense of self-empowerment,
whereas a multi-disciplinary response involving collaboration among victim
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service professionals, criminal justice officials, legal professionals, medical and
mental health providers and community leaders is essential to reach and serve
all victims, especially those who are marginalized, have disabilities, or live in
remote locations, whereas Crime Victims Rights Week, April 2nd through the
8th, 2017, provides an opportunity to recommit to ensuring that all victims of
crimes are afforded their rights, whereas the City of Meridian is dedicated to
strengthening victims and survivors in the aftermath of crime, building resilience
in our communities and our victim responders and working for justice for all
victims and survivors, therefore, I Mayor Tammy de Weerd, do hereby proclaim
April 2nd through the 8th, 2017, as Crime Victims Rights Week in the City of
Meridian. I encourage all our citizens to support local efforts and healing to the
victims of crimes. I will present this proclamation to you and invite you to say a
few words.
Marty: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you so much.
Marty: Thank you, Mayor. I accept this Proclamation in honor of Crime Victims,
Mothers Against Drunk Driving, and for Marsy's Law of Idaho. Thank you so
much.
Item 6: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of March 21, 2017 City Council Regular
Meeting
B. Final Order for Oaks South Subdivision No. 6 (H-2017-
0016) by Toll ID I, LLC Located South of W. McMillan
Road and 1/2 Mile East of N. McDermott Road
C. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Approval for
Paramount Subdivision No. 32 (H-2017-0014) by SCS
Brighton, LLC Located Approximately 1/4 Mile East of N.
Linder Road, North Side of W. McMillan Road
D. Final Order for Movado Estates Subdivision No. 1 (H-
2017-0004) by DevCo, LLC Located at South Side of E.
Overland Road, Between S. Topaz Way and S.
Cloverdale Road
E. Final Order for Movado Estates Subdivision No. 2 (H-
2017-0005) by DevCo, LLC Located South Side of E.
Overland Road, Between S. Topaz Way and S.
Cloverdale Road
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F. Final Order for Movado Subdivision No. 3 (H-2017-0012)
by Dave Evans Construction, LLC Located South Side of
E. Overland Road, Between S. Topaz Way and S.
Cloverdale Road
G. Final Plat for Maddyn Subdivision (H-2017-0029) by A
Team Land Consultants Located West Side of N.
Meridian Road, South of E. Ustick Road and North of W.
Sedgewick Drive
H. Sugarman Subdivision Water Sewer Easement between
Columbia Trust Ltd Liability Co and City of Meridian
I. Citadel 4 Water Easement between Citadel Storage LLC
and City of Meridian
J. Resolution No. 17-2002: Approving the Donation of a K-9
Cage to the Nampa Police Department
De Weerd: Council, Item 6 is our Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: As stated earlier, Item J, the resolution number is 17-2002. And with that I
move we approve the Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to
attest.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda as
amended. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Community Items/Presentations
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A. Swearing in of New Police Officers
De Weerd: Item 8-A has been vacated from the agenda.
B. Mayor’s Youth Advisory Council Update
De Weerd: Item 8-B is our Mayor's Youth Advisory Council. Welcome, Susanna.
Bradford: We had a PowerPoint, but I guess I do not have it today. Let me pull it
up on my phone. So, first we had -- so, this is the Mayor's Youth Advisory
Council update for the month of March and first we had Mad City Money two
weeks ago and we had really good attendance. We had about 30 MYAC'ers
come and we did it here at City Hall and because we had a smaller group than
we had in the past we were able to increase the quality of our experience and we
were able to learn a lot and yesterday at our executive council meeting we
discussed possible ways that we could improve the event in the future and we
talked about getting people to become more aware of the event and so they can
understand more what it was, because the name doesn't really explain it as well
as we hoped. So, that's one thing that we are going to work on for next year.
And, then, we have participatory budgeting, an update on that. Next Monday we
are voting on our -- we will be voting and we have been working with community
partners and city officials to choose what we want to be voting upon and, then,
Friday, April 21st, at 5:30 here at City Hall we are holding a food friends -- food-
friendly fundraiser with food trucks that will benefit the Idaho Suicide Prevention
Hotline. So, that's going to be a really fun event that will bring some good for --
for the suicide hotline. Then next we have Do The Right. This is our -- probably
our biggest event all year long. It's next Wednesday. We will be spending our --
the majority of our meeting on Monday working towards Do The Right. Our
community service group is going to be doing chalk art and our Teen Activities
Committee will be making sticky notes with nice notes on it and our government
affairs group will be going around to local businesses to let them know about the
event and something that you guys can do is just get the word out and just
become involved and do whatever you can . Something kind that day and just let
anyone you know about it and, then, finally, we have a run-walk event at
Meridian High School called To Save A Life on April 29th at 1:00 p.m. and this is
-- it will help raise money for suicide prevention. And any questions?
De Weerd: Yes. Maybe you can explain what Mad City Money is.
Bradford: Okay. So, Mad City Money is an event we do in cap ed and they
come and they give us packets and we , basically, role play and pretend like we
are adults and that we are going to go pay all of her bills and buy all the things
that we need to and we get to learn and see how hard it is, how much we need to
budget our money and how like realistically we have to think about what we
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would actually buy or we would really need for our jobs and stuff and it's a really
good experience. It's super fun.
De Weerd: And that's the part we want to make sure is better understood when
we -- we put that out to our members; right?
Bradford: Yeah.
De Weerd: And so, Council, any questions for Susanna?
Cavener: You guys are doing a lot. Awesome.
De Weerd: Lance and Cheyenne, do you have anything to add?
Quilter: I think the biggest thing -- I think Susanna did a great job touching upon
it. One thing I would love to clarify would be our effort in Suicide Prevention as
part of what we really want to see in community service. We were going to do a
big bowl-a-thon, but we decided that we wanted to include more of our
community and do partnerships with food trucks and have them help -- not only
create a community event that teaches about suicide prevention, but also giving
money to that and, then, the To Save A Life Run. One of our fellow MYAC'ers is
actually putting it all together and organizing it and I think I would just want to
kind of highlight that, because I think it really shows who our MYAC'ers are.
They are one to really take ownership of their city, they saw the city and they felt
something that really impacted them and they wanted to help their community.
So, I just really want to highlight that and tell you guys a little bit about who our
MYAC'ers really are. So, Lance.
Baumgartner: Hello there. I'm Lance Baumgartner. I'd just like to add a little bit
about participatory budgeting. I believe we are right on track. We have had a lot
of good proposals so far and we are moving towards, as Susanna said, our initial
vote to narrow our pool down. We had so many we have to have our initial vote
to narrow that down and, then, we will have our final vote shortly thereafter and
we really appreciate all that the City Council does in providing this wonderful
opportunity like participatory budgeting is to all of the MYAC'ers So, thank you.
Milam: So proud of you guys.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Lance, would you mind maybe just sharing with the Council just a few
of the proposals that you guys are exploring for the participatory budgeting ,
recognizing that might not be the final one, I'm just curious what you guys have
started to talk about.
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Baumgartner: So, there are several. There are a lot of c ommunity development
programs along the line of adding onto existing pathways and there was even
some very ambitious ones to install charging stations in parks and I think our
most ambitious one was to create a whole new dog park in the City of Meridian.
But there was also some more tempered ones like an additional community
garden, a memorial for the Korean veterans here in Meridian, and an extension
to the Rock of Honor Garden there in Kleiner Park and, obviously, many, many
more, but those are some of the things I remember off the top of my head.
Cavener: Thank you, Lance.
De Weerd: Good job pulling those off the top of your head. You did good.
There were about 30 ideas. Those ideas will be presented at Monday's meeting.
So, if you want to come and sit in and listen to them, many of the idea generators
will be presenting their ideas in 60 seconds or less and, then, their peers will be
voting on what will make the final ballot. So, we are excited to hear what they
have -- they also were paired with community partners that could give them more
information on the idea that they came up with, so to put more context and
maybe even create partnerships. So, it's -- they have done a very nice job and
we appreciate your shepherding the -- the process. And just one note. What is
the date of the Food Truck Rally?
Bradford: It's Friday, April 21st, from 5:30 to 8:30.
De Weerd: So, I imagine everyone in this room is writing that date down; right?
We want to support our kids. Our youth council has been focused on this topic
for several years now. They have been partners with the Idaho Prevention
Suicide Hotline and this is a fundraiser that raises needed funds , but certainly
some of our members have been touched by suicide and I love to see the
compassion that you all have about the topic and wan ting to be part of the
solution. So, thank you for that. Council, if there is nothing further -- okay. Good
report. Thank you. Look forward to the meeting on Monday.
Item 9: Action Items
A. Request for Reconsideration of the Tree Farm
Subdivision (H-2016-0128)
De Weerd: Okay. We will move to Action Items. Under Item 9-A. This is a
request for reconsideration. Council, just to -- to walk you through this, we have
received a reconsideration on the Tree Farm project, which is RZ PPH-2016-12
-- or 0128. These proceedings have been governed by Idaho Code 67-6535 and
the Meridian City Code as well, 1-7-10. Per our code this is not a public hearing,
but the Council may ask questions to those that are asking for reconsider for their
clarification. So, the procedure is that their representatives -- the two separate
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requests are Lynn Southam and Susan Tillman and if I said your name wrong I
apologize. Are the parties present tonight? Thank you. We don't have any
questions at this point. Okay? I just wanted to make sure you hear. The
applicant is M3 Development. Is a representative present for them? Okay.
Council, you have an extensive record of the original proceedings and , then,
further, information in the record from the requ est for reconsideration. Do you
have anything else to add to the record at this point? The applicants, anything
further for the record that is not within your request for reconsideration? It would
be new information that was not presented in your letter. And the procedure is if
the Council has further questions we will ask those at the time. Okay? Thank
you for that clarification. So, remember, this is not a public hearing and I just was
asking if there is new information and clarification might be needed by the -- the
City Council in light that the requests were filed after the March 8th meeting.
Does the Council have any questions for the requesters or representatives of this
appeal or of the applicant?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, I have read everything and feel like I have had sufficient
information to understand the decision that we made -- need to make tonight, but
from Lynn's comments there it seemed like there might be further clarification
needed as to the memo and I think it would be advantageous to hear what he
has got to say, so we can make sure we are all on the exact same page.
Cavener: I agree.
De Weerd: Okay. Please. Thank you for being here. If you will state your name
and address for the record.
Southam: Thank you. My name is Lynn Southam. I live at 6408 North Salvia
Way in Meridian. 83646. And, Mayor, Members of the City Council, we thank
you for this opportunity. Just in clarifying we in the neighborhood have no
objection to the zoning change and we have no objection to the subdivision going
in. That's never been an issue and we don't want to have any confusion on that
point. But the thing that I'd like to point out is that in his record of points for this
memorandum, the city attorney frankly misstated a couple things and didn't fully
state other things. I'm prepared to list those if you would like. First of all, he
indicated in quoting the code, Revision A, since pursuant to Idaho Code 67-6535,
Local and Land Use Planning Act regarding requests for reconsideration of a City
Council land use decision, the following procedures must be strictly followed.
Strictly is important. And, then, you go to subparagraph three, it says the request
must identify specific deficiencies in the decision for which reconsideration is
sought. He, in writing it to you, said legal deficiencies, not specific deficiencies.
There is a significant issue associated with that, because in the law there is both
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the spirit and the letter of the law and that conjunction and that issue , then, the
thing that was not mentioned in his recitation of the events was that it did not
refer to the letter that was given by M3 to their JUB Enterprises at the hearing
that would take place in November. The subdivision will take access from North
Black Cat Road and North Tree Farm . That's never been mentioned by the city
attorney or by M3. In fact, they never mentioned the fact that Mr. Tate assured
us in the November meeting that they would not use Tree Farm, that they would
put up barriers and in response he said that when he was asked if the barriers
were taken down by the construction truck drivers, he said, well, then, we will put
boulders up. And there are people here tonight that were there. They heard
that. So, we have all been told that. That was not mentioned in the -- in the
Council's comments to the court -- to the court. I apologize. I'm a retired lawyer
and I'm not licensed here. But I would also mention that in the items that have
been given to the court to emphasize to the Council that nowhere on any of the
maps or in any of the notices is anything referenced about the use of Tree Farm
Way by M3. It all talks about a subdivision, to which we had no objection. But
we are concerned about the only road that we have , which already has an
excess of the authorized maximum daily traffic already.
De Weerd: But, sir, so we are -- we are not here for the public hearing on the
development application.
Southam: Right.
De Weerd: We are here to establish is there grounds for reconsideration
because of a procedure was not followed per our codes and per Idaho state law.
Southam: I understand. Let me address that more specific.
De Weerd: Okay.
Southam: It's referenced in the memorandum that signs and notices were sent
out. None of those referenced anything about the use of Tree Farm Way. The
signs themselves were actually blown over or covered with snow. No one could
have seen them. Even if they had have been at the end of a dead end road
where they were posted no one would have seen them. There was no notice.
And as a matter of law, if M3 was to say we are excused, we pu t them up, we
can't be at fault if the wind blew over our signs or the snow covered them up.
The fact is if that argument works for them, then, it works for us. The act of God
excuses us from not being at meetings for which we had no notice, because
those signs were covered up or were blown over and they were never put back
up. We had to go out and find them. We searched for them on two occasions,
finally found all of them. We were not given notice by those signs. The question
then becomes legally I think what about the public notice in the papers or those
that were sent out. None of them mentioned anything at all about the use of Tree
Farm Way. So, we had not objection to those notices. Just for the record, we
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have no objection to the notice as it relates to the change of zoning and although
those notices don't talk about the subdivision, we have no -- no objection to that.
We just were not given notice that our road is going to be taken and our children
endangered by those trucks where the traffic usage already has exceeded them
what was authorized. My last point would be -- I think it would be very beneficial
to the City Council to have the fire chief Palmer indicate his thoughts now that he
has all of the information, because he may be actually would give this Council
some needed information about whether or not he would recommend approval of
the use of Tree Farm Way. Any questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And maybe the question is for Mr. Nary with regard to signs falling over
or being covered with snow, piles of snow being pushed up. Is there any
provision for something happening to the signs? Do they have to be visible as
they are placed the entire time or do they just have to be put there? How does
that work?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, notice in Idaho for land use
decisions requires three methods of notice. Or excuse me. The city code
requires three methods of notice. The state code only requires one. The state
code requires you publish it in your newspaper of public record. That's the only
requirement in the state code. In the city code we require publish in the
newspaper of record, we require signage on the property prior to the date of the
hearing and there is a specific time period in which that sign is supposed to be
there. And notice is mailed to property owners within 300 feet of the subject
property. So, the intent is is providing additional opportunities for people to have
notice. It does not require notice about roads and specific information in regards
to the application, the intent is to -- it gives the person the ability to go find that
information on their own. All of those notices were sent. Whether it's obscured
by the rain or snow or something else is -- not any court in Idaho has ever found
to be valid reason that notice wasn't done.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Bill -- so, I missed the first meeting and, obviously, these folks did, too.
So, they have shown up twice since then and to me it really shows that they
didn't know about the meeting. This is sort of like, well, where were they, why --
why did not -- they did not attend the original meeting? Obviously they didn't
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know about it. Are there any grounds that we have, based on any of these
findings, that we could re-hear this?
Nary: Are you done? I didn't want to interrupt you.
Milam: I was going to -- but --
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Milam, so,
again, Mr. Southam is wrong in the sense that what he's saying that illegal
deficiency and specific deficiencies are two different things. They are not. The
legislature when they passed this code provision in 2013 specifically discussed
legal deficiency and specific deficiency as the same thing, because what the
intent was is when this was brought forward -- it was brought forward by the
Association of Idaho Cities, among other sponsors, was because at this level of
decision making, by the time it got to a district court it might be six months or
longer or later from the actual event and it's held up the development, it's held up
the project, sometimes it gets reversed, sometimes it doesn't and it takes a
tremendous amount of time and effort and money to do that. So, the intent was
that a party that was aggrieved, whether it's the applicant or a concerned citizen,
the neighbor, adjacent property and whoever it is, needs to raise what that legal
deficiency is. Now, this is not a court, but it is a quasi-judicial hearing and so the
Council has to have at least enough information now that a court could consider
that to be a legal error, enough to, then, back up and start over. Because once
entitlement has been granted, which is what's happened here, the applicant has
rights that are superior to other properties, because they have been granted the
ability to develop, to build, to construct, to get building permits, to commit money
to let contracts -- I mean there is a lot that goes into that entitlement process.
So, that was the specific intent of our legislature was they needed to raise a legal
deficiency. So, again, to go back to question on notice, notice is required to be
sent. Notice is required to be posted. The fact the folks didn't see it or missed it
-- again, we provide additional opportunities for people to be aware of it , but it is
only again to prompt them to go and inquire further and to go determine if it may
affect them. The other part I need to mention, the neighborhood meeting, which
has been -- or was -- was required here as well, that's another city requirement.
So, again, it provides another opportunity to discuss. Now things change, I mean
that's -- that's somewhat implied. But the intent of going out and telling people
what you're doing fairly close in time to the period you're going to apply to do it
and, then, put up a signage and send out notices close in time to the time you're
going to hear it, is the intent of notice. I'm not disagreeing that the folks here
didn't see the signage, but I know they got the material -- I mean I know they got
the written material. The fact that it didn't prompt them or such, that's nothing we
can control, it's nothing the applicant can control and the code doesn't
contemplate that. It only contemplates providing the notice and opportunity.
Southam: If I may, notice was given to us and it said they would use Black Cat
and that was what was to told us in that letter advising us of the November
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meeting. There was no withdrawal of that statement to us at any time.
Furthermore, at that meeting we were told they would put up barriers and, in the
alternative, rock boulders so that construction traffic could not use Tree Farm.
Now, that was news to us. No one told us that M3 had changed their mind,
either they had lied to us in the first place or they figured that they would just put
off building Black Cat, which the proposal says they are going to build anyway.
Nothing that we have raised prevents them from building this subdivision. It
doesn't stop them from building out Black Cat as they have already said they will
do. They just want to put it off a little while. We are saying do it now. You're
already using our road. It's already broken, our median, the concrete, it's not
even been repaired yet. The children are still waiting for school buses. These
trucks have been coming by with the danger exposed to them . We have real and
legitimate, legal interest to protect both personal and property rights and interest.
We were not given notice of the change of the original notice we were given . We
would like to have a hearing where all of these people who are here can hear --
have you hear their concerns that would been expressed at the meeting had we
been told that the original notice had been vacated , that their minds had
changed, that the letter was no longer valid.
De Weerd: Did you appeal the decision of Ada County Highway District, who
makes those decisions? And we were not aware of any discussion, but that --
their neighborhood meeting came before ACHD -- well, I'm getting into the
weeds. Sorry.
Southam: I can address that if you want me to.
De Weerd: I can't.
Southam: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And, Mr. Nary, correct me if I'm wrong. Without having had someone
from the public here to let us know during the public hearing about promises that
were made during a neighborhood meeting, we had no way of knowing and as
much as I would love to ask the developer if that is what took place , the decision
before us is whether there was a legal deficiency as to the noticing and so I'm not
in a position to be able to ask him that, because, really, it's irrelevant to the
question legally before us and so without us having known that at the time , I don't
know how to -- to better get the word out in the future to people that, hey, if you
were promised something that's not in the application at a neighborhood meeting,
make sure you are able to be here and let us know, because I don't see that
there was -- again, if -- if -- if an act of God is not a legal reason to be able to say
that the signs didn't qualify to meet our code, I don't see any -- any way for us to
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legally justify reconsidering it to be able to open that back up to ask those
questions, to put additional restrictions on the developer for the project. As much
as I'd like to, kind of in a tough spot here having already approved the project
without anybody coming to -- to let us know during the public hearing that they
had an objection.
Nary: You are not wrong.
De Weerd: Council, any other questions?
Bird: Not at this time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Southam: Would you like to have a copy of the notice for the neighborhood
meeting for your record?
De Weerd: At this point, you know, it's -- this is a discussion only on the request
for reconsideration.
Southam: I understand. I just didn't know if you wanted their letter for your
record.
Bird: We should have it.
De Weerd: It is in the record.
Nary: It's already in the record.
Bird: I think we have got it.
Southam: Okay. I didn't send it. Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Well -- Mr. Borton.
Borton: Just one question. I, too, have all -- read all the materials which was
fantastic detail. We appreciate that and we appreciate your presentation as well.
The notice issue is concerning and just to be clear, is it -- is it your position that
the notice that was provided was ineffective or was specifically legally deficient,
according to code and statue?
Southam: Yeah. There are several facets of that. First of all, the first legal
notice that was given we say -- it was the one that was said in the letter in
October that said they wouldn't be using Black Cat. That was the first notice.
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The second notice was in the public meeting by Mr. Tate where he said they
wouldn't use it, they would put up barriers, in the alternative boulders. We didn't
have to worry about that.
Borton: Right.
Southam: The third notice was -- issue was signs were put up in areas that could
not be seen on roads that were never used and, then, were blown over and
covered with snow. That was an act of God which under the law does away with
the issue of legal notice. I think you have to weigh those things. The phrase act
of God is a legal term that we employ in courts every day. It has a justification
under law, which looks to the rights of individuals who could not do something,
because of that. The other thing in terms of notice was although there was a
notice of a change of zoning, there was never any notice that they had changed
their mind and now wanted to use our roads, instead of the one they said they
were going to build. I think they changed their story and I think that ought to tell
this Council tons, because they are going to be before you again in the future.
Borton: Madam Mayor? I guess what I'm trying to drill down to is -- and I
understand the -- it's -- it kind of dovetails with what Councilman Palmer was
bringing up is the narrow scope of findings that a Council is allowed to utilize to
reconsider a decision and with regards to the notice that was provided, even if it
was ineffective, which it may have been understanding your concerns , but is it
the position that it was specifically legally deficient in that the notice , the signing,
the publication, those specific statutory requirements the city -- or the applicant
failed to do what the actual code says or -- or that they did it but it wasn't effective
having done so?
Southam: That's a fair question. I think the ultimate resolution here is in a court
of law or you as a quasar-judicial body. You have the right to make that decision
and if you don't, then, the court is going to look at the issues raised, which is was
there an act of God? Was there a change of representation? Were the people
misled? Were the notices sufficient, although it's talked about a change of
zoning to which the people didn't object, it did not tell them how their lives would
be affected, how their roads would be used by someone that had nothing to with
their subdivision. Those are key notices and I would suggest legally with a notice
to be valid it has to tell people about what it is that affects them and that did not
happen. It hasn't happened yet until we found out about the decision of this
Council after a meeting that we didn't know about.
De Weerd: Was the -- the notice what every other applicant puts in the
information, Mr. Nary?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, the Idaho Code requires
notice of -- of a meeting and an event. It doesn't require the details that Mr.
Southam was talking about, it doesn’t require to tell what road people will drive
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on or what might impact your life. It's a notice that we are going to talk about a
project that's in their general area and they, then, need to explore more about
that. That's the only notice that's required on the sign, in the mailing, and in the
newspaper and that was done.
Southam: And I concur with that. I don't object to that argument at all. What I
object to is when notice has been discussed before and we were told one thing,
when the applicant for this project changes their mind and not wanting to honor
up to the promises they made us, that, then, becomes a legal issue that goes to
the basis of notice and I think you have to weigh that. If integrity counts for
anything it counts for everything in this matter. Either he's got a -- well, never
mind.
Nary: Madam Mayor, I'm sorry to interrupt. That would be true at the public
hearing stage, not now. The notice that he's talking about is for a neighborhood
meeting that's set by the applicant prior to the application. Then an application
was made. All of that is done at the public hearing stage, not at this point.
Southam: There was much done to -- to keep this from us. Sue, who has not
spoken, made two letters -- e-mails sent to M3 saying tell us about the projected
traffic counts. They did not --
De Weerd: Hey, we can't take detail here --
Southam: All right.
De Weerd: -- but just to keep with the reconsideration.
Southam: Okay. Are there any other questions about the law or the legal
deficiencies or the specific deficiencies?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I just want to make sure that I have got some -- some clarification.
You're not contesting that the notice was provided in the newspaper of record.
You're not contesting that the letter was sent to the appropriate parties; correct?
Southam: No, I'm not contesting --
Cavener: Your issue is more with the signs not being visible.
Southam: No.
Cavener: That's the legal notices.
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Southam: That's one of them. If the legal notices did not contain the phrase or
anything else saying --
Cavener: I understand that.
Southam: -- that they had changed their minds, they would no longer live up t o
their word. It doesn't say that anywhere in those notices.
Cavener: I don't think any of our legal notices indicate if a developer has
changed their mind for something subjective.
Southam: I don't think we have any testimony that other people li ed and, then,
changed their mind.
Cavener: All the more reason to have them attend the public hearing.
De Weerd: Anything further from Council?
Palmer: Madam Mayor, maybe a question about the order of things. Is the
application filed with the city before or after a neighborhood meeting takes place?
Nary: So, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Palmer, our
process requires a pre-application meeting with public -- with the Planning and
Zoning and, then, a neighborhood meeting prior to the filing of the application
and, then, the notices get sent when it gets scheduled for the Planning and
Zoning Commission and, then, we send out notices, print it in the paper, and put
up the signs. But the -- the pre-application and the neighborhood meeting are
done prior to them filing the application.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, follow up then. So, then, it would be incumbent upon
the public to verify that the application filed is consistent with the information they
were provided during a neighborhood meeting?
Nary: Yes.
Palmer: Okay.
De Weerd: We appreciate you joining us tonight.
Southam: Thank you for this opportunity.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, do you need any further information? If you
would like to get additional information from the applicant , but -- or from the other
requester? Anything further? You would need to -- to come forward. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
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Tillman: My name is Sue Tillman. I live at 6550 North Lanicera Way in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Tillman: My question refers -- goes back to the November 2nd meeting, which I
did attend, and promises, statements were made, and I did make two follow-up
e-mails, one after the date they filed -- they initially filed November 15th and my
question --
De Weerd: Mrs. Tillman, again, it has -- it has to do with the reconsideration.
Tillman: Well, I guess I was trying to get the information about what they were
doing and they didn't answer me, so none of this might have happened if they
had responded to my e-mail. So, that is my -- that's my question. Is that not part
of the notice process to respond to me when I specifically send them questions ?
De Weerd: Unfortunately, I don't think it has -- the specifics to reconsideration,
only adds to your frustration. So, I apologize.
Tillman: And a lack of good faith on their part it feels like to me. So, I appreciate
your listening.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Tillman: Any questions for me? Thank you.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I don't have a question for you, Sue. Thank you. But I just want to -- I
guess clarify or verify or whatever the -- when an application is brought before
Planning and Zoning and the application that the city originally got -- has
anything changed with the roads since then?
De Weerd: That's part of the application discussion, not part of the
reconsideration. Any further information from the requesters o r the applicant?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: I am curious if the applicant has any comments, again, within the same
parameters that we are requiring --
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De Weerd: Please be specific only to the reconsideration request and if you,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Tate: Mark Tate, M3 Companies. 533 East Riverside Drive, Boise, Idaho.
Mayor and Council, thank you for this opportunity. I was not planning on saying
anything tonight which regards to the reconsideration. I think our --
De Weerd: Can you speak a little louder.
Tate: Excuse me.
De Weerd: You're too tall for the mic.
Tate: Yeah. Your mic is too short. With regards to the reconsideration, I will say
I think the record is extremely crystal clear that every aspect of the code was
followed in this case. The only reason I'm coming up here is I feel like I have
spent 20 minutes being slandered while --
De Weerd: Well -- and that may -- may make you -- sir. Okay. That may make
you feel uncomfortable, but we are interested in hearing what is the basis -- what
do you need to say to the specific area of consideration. Not to your reputation.
Tate: I have very thin skin. I apologize. Regarding the signage, there was some
comments about whether the signs were up and tipped over -- I would just like to
add that in the record there are photos of the signs being up. The signs were
discovered to be tipped over weeks and weeks after the -- the hearings took
place. I think that's pretty clear. That's all I have to add. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for Mr. Tate? Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Nary, in your opinion is the application and the procedure done by
statute and code as required?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Bird, I mean I have
read everything in this file. I have looked at the code. I have looked at our
process. I have looked at the procedure. I have looked at the consistency of
other projects. And I understand the frustration of the people in the area, but we
can only be responsible to follow the same process on every application and the
code is very specific on what we do and how we do it and the notices that are
provided and all of the -- all of the intricacies of the land use process and once
it's completed, then, again, we are in a very narrow scope tonight. Prior to a final
decision that was made on February 7th, the Council has a lot of discretion on
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how hearings can be continued or set over for various reasons , but once that
decision is made we have to look at everything in the record that exists at that
time and make a decision on whether or not the process wasn't followed, a legal
deficiency is -- exists and in his case in my opinion there isn't one.
Bird: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, if there is no additional information, I will turn this
over to you for your discussion. Bottom line that the issue before you is a
request for reconsideration that raises specific deficiencies in the decision of
February 7th approving the Tree Farm project that would warrant holding another
public hearing. So, I will ask for your comments, discussion, direction.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I will go first. I will break the ice. For those that are here on this -- on
this particular subject, I think it's important to know that this Council loves the
process. I would often say that we maybe love the process too much. We go
down rabbit holes, we get in the weeds, because we think that each issue that's
before us in a public hearing is important. I think you have heard from many of
us tonight wrestle with trying to find an opportunity to let you share your opinion
on this particular project under the letter of the law. The challenge is is that we
heard people provide subjective opinions about what should and shouldn't be
included in public notices and we don't have that flexibility. We are a black and
white operation and we follow the letter of the law. I believe the developer has
followed the letter of the law. And as much as I would love to go into the weeds
on this particular issue and hear from our citizens on this issue, I just don't
believe that we have the ability to do that, which is disappointing, I know, for the
citizens that are here, it's disappointing for us as well. We may have very well
ended up with the same end result, but I think that we are really barred from
reevaluating this particular issue. So, unless anyone else has any comments
that they would like to make, I will -- I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: As much as I feel for everyone involved with this, I agree with
Councilman Cavener that we are very, very restricted to the letter of the law and
as much as we may emotionally want to do something different, we are bound to
do what is appropriate by the law.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
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April 4, 2017
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: In going through all the materials -- and we appreciate everybody
submitting that and being here tonight to at least watch sausage get made in -- in
this. We are looking for exactly what we have heard presented. Is there a -- is
there a legal deficiency that permits the item to be reconsidered and one of the --
of the things that were discussed -- and I appreciate the remarks here tonight,
but one of the items that was discussed that was of particular interest to me was
the signage and of the issues that -- that could cause or find ground for a change
is whether notice -- specific statutory required notice was deficient, meaning it
lacked content that is required by code or it wasn't posted in a correct location or
wasn't mailed out or published as required by code . Those are some of the
deficiencies that may give grounds for a council to choose to reconsider if they
want to. It might not change the ultimate decision, but in -- in the presentation
tonight and that we ask quite pointed questions and there was candid responses,
that the notice provided didn't meet those statutory requirements. What I think
we can take from this hearing is -- there is always ways to do things better and
improve process as well. And as I go through and see some of the concerns that
a lot of you have raised about notice, it may be legally sufficient, but it might not
be the most effective way to do business . There might be additional
opportunities that not only a developer, but a city like Meridian can improve its
process and improve the opportunity for the p ublic to learn of projects and the
need to provide additional notice or more effective notice , even though it's -- it's
legally sufficient. So, it doesn't necessarily afford relief today. I agree with my
fellow Council members, I couldn't find in the record and in the comments a legal
deficiency that permits this to be reconsidered . The one area of concern, which
is so unique in this case, is -- is signs posted on properties that might of have
either blown over prior to a hearing or what was really unique is the snowstorm
event and if you have got signs that are obstructed from view by mounds of
snow, does that rise to the level of not posting signs on a property. Because we
-- we acknowledge the fact that you can't post a property with a sign one day and
remove it the next, right? It has to be visible and present and provide notice on a
continuous basis. Well, the snow obstruction prevents that continual notice.
Does that rise to the level of negating notice in the first place ? Those are some
of the elements that I was looking for that can create a legal deficiency in the
notice, rather than just an ineffective notice or a not as effective as you want
notice. I don't know you are there in this case. But that's one of the areas of
concern as we leave this hearing and go forward that I think we can improve on ,
maybe look at how we notice. If items like that, when they occur, does it cause
us to have an obligation to provide a different -- additional type of notice. Let's do
it better and be more effective, not only for the applicants who don't want to come
back and have items reconsidered, but also for the public. So, they -- whatever
decision goes up or down at lea st feel comfortable that they have had every
opportunity to be heard and I -- I really appreciate the candor of the -- the public
that's present and the written testimony with regards to not necessarily objecting
to the development as a whole, it was very helpful to know that it was a focused
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request with regards to those particular legal issues. So, I can't make the
findings either that allow it to be reconsidered, but I think we can learn a lot from
this process going forward and maybe have opportunities to make it even better.
De Weerd: Well -- and I will say that all of the additional noticing that we have
done and the neighborhood meeting has been a result from neighbors coming
and saying is there a better way. We have added them one at a time and tried to
improve that and making sure that we don't require ju st the minimum of the state
code, we have added to our own and this gives us a reason to reconsider and --
and seeing what else we can be doing. I will -- I will make a comment after
whatever your decision is.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I don't think I need to add to what's already been said on the deal and I -- I
cannot legally find any reason to reconsider this, so I move that we do not
reconsider this application.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a secon d. Any discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you
call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: And I don't say this in jest, Mr. Tate, but you do have an opportunity
here to -- to make good with your reputation. You can consider that road. So,
we will just go ahead and move on. Thank you all for joining us. Okay. Council,
I would have a request to kind of consider another agenda item. I know we have
a couple of the -- the members that are being requested to be confirmed under
Department Reports and considering the number of people in our -- our council
chambers that maybe if we can take care of a couple of quick items of business
prior to continuing on our public hearing agenda . What I would recommend is
that we consider Items 10-A, B and C under appointments for commissions. Any
opposition to that? Okay. And I apologize to those in attendance. These will
take just a few minutes and -- and, then, we will get back to the public hearings.
Item 10: Department Reports
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A. Mayor’s Office: Resolution No. 17-2005: Appointing
Keith Bevan to the Meridian Parks & Recreation
Commission
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10-A. Council, in front of you as Resolution 17-2005
appointing Kevin Bevan to the Meridian Parks and Recreation Commission. My
process in -- in interviewing and appointing or bringing a recommendation in front
of you is to bring the chair of each of the commissions to join me as I tell each of
the applicants it's because that commission will be inheriting the person that I --
whose name I bring in front of you. We interviewed a number of people for all of
these and I'm really excited to see the number of citizens that are interested in
serving our community and the different experiences and perspective they bring
to these commissions. So, that said, I bring in front of you Keith's name to
appoint to the Meridian Parks and Recreation Commission and ask if there are
any questions. Okay.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I would like to make a motion that we accept proposal 17 -2005,
appointing Keith Bevans to the Meridian Parks and Recreation Commission.
Cavener: Second.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10-A. Mr. Clerk, will
you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Mayor’s Office: Resolution No. 17-2006: Appointing
Gretchen Caserotti and Gina Lyon to the Meridian Arts
Commission
De Weerd: Item 10-B in front of you is Resolution 17-2006, appointing Gretchen
Caserotti and Gina Lyon to the Meridian Arts Commission. Council, I will preface
these two names as we had a number of Meridian citizens that were very
interested and we had two of our commission members also reapply. Because
one of those were not a Meridian resident I -- I put preference to the resident to
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serve in the expired seat. So, it was a difficult decision. I think that both these
names will bring great breadth to our commission and I ask for your approval.
Any questions from Council?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve Resolution No. 17-2006 appointing Gretchen
Caserotti and Gina Lyon to the Meridian Arts Commission.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10-B. Mr. Clerk, will
you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: One of the things I failed to do is ask Keith -- I know, Keith, you're
here. Would you like to make an comments? I apologize. I knew you were
here.
Bevan: I'm not as tall as he was. I'm Keith Bevan and I just look forward to
being able to serve Meridian on the parks and rec commission. I appreciate your
confidence in me and all of your vote to confirm that. I love Meridian. We love
living here. We love raising our family here. Playing here. And I think we have
great parks and that's part of what makes Meridian great and the programs that
we have as part of the parks department -- not just the parks, pathways,
programs, all those things that go into the parks department I think are what
make a place livable and enjoyable. So, I just appreciate the opportunity.
De Weerd: Thank you. We appreciate you being here tonight and our parks
director standing in the back of the room smiling like -- because of what you said,
complimenting the parks. So, he will probably meet you in the back, so you can
connect on getting signed up for the packet of information and all of the next
steps. So, thank you for being here.
Bevans: Thank you.
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C. Mayor’s Office: Resolution No. 17-2007: Appointing
Diane Bevan and Steve Vlassek to the Meridian
Development Corporation
De Weerd: Item 10-C is Resolution 17-7 -- or 2007, appointing Diane Bevan and
Steve Vlassek to the MDC board.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve Resolution No. 17-2007 appointing Diane Bevan
and Steve Vlassek to the Meridian Development Corp.
Milam: Second.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 10-C. Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; P almer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Diane, do you have any comments? I always ask after I have
appointed you, instead of giving you a chance before -- just in case you change
your mind.
Bevan: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thank you, Madam Mayor. My name is
Diane Bevan and I am excited to serve as development having been a business
owner and started businesses and worked with a lot of businesses in the City of
Meridian, I look forward to the opportunity to help our area grow and be
sustainable through -- through the future. So, thank you very much.
Item 9: Action Items
C. Public Hearing for TM Crossing (H-2017-0027) by
Brighton Investments, et al., Located Northeast Corner
of I-84 and S. Ten Mile Road
1. Request: Modification to the Development Agreement
to Expand the Phase I Boundary
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April 4, 2017
Page 25 of 105
De Weerd: Thank you. Thank you for allowing us to the interruption to the public
meeting agenda and I will move right into Item 9-C, public hearing for TM
Crossing, H-2017-0027. I will open this public hearing with staff comments.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Next item on the
agenda this evening is the TM Crossing Development agreement modification.
Currently the site consists of 75 acres. Is zoned C-G and is located on the east
side of Ten Mile just north of Interstate I-84. This property was annexed in 2012
and -- with a requirement of a development agreement. Last year Council did
approve a development agreement modification to this site to allow the applicant
to begin construction of three commercial buildings with the first phase of
development. Since that time and the reason for the modificatio n this evening is
the applicant is -- is trying to get an additional building permit to be constructed
within a second phase of the development . So, basically, this graphic before you
this evening shows you the original phase line for phase one and if you can see
in the lower right-hand corner, they are actually modifying that phase line,
allowing them to move their third building permit over into this area , so that they
can construct a new five story office building for Paylocity and so we did receive
written testimony from the applicant. They are in agreement with the conditions
in the staff report. With that I will stand for any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, any questions? Does the applicant have
any comments?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Mike Wardle, Brighton Corporation.
12601 West Explorer Drive in Boise. I think it's simply a case where Mr.
Turnbull's crystal ball didn't anticipate that we would need one of those building
permits outside of the f irst phase, but that has happened. Hence the opportunity
to simply use one of those three approved building permits to start construction
next month of the Paylocity building. So, that was all of our -- our need to come
before you tonight and appreciate the opportunity and would answer questions.
De Weerd: Well, I'm not sure if I should ask you to borrow your crystal ball . It's
failed you, but it also brought in a number of new jobs . So, it -- it just might be
worth borrowing.
Wardle: I would be happy to leave it with you, Madam Mayor.
Milam: Got a new one on order.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wardle: I just hope it works better for you than it did for us in this particular case.
Thank you.
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April 4, 2017
Page 26 of 105
De Weerd: Well, I think it worked pretty good when you -- you get 500 jobs. This
is a public hearing. Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this
application? Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing no public testimony, I move we close the publi c hearing on H-2017-
0027.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on 9-C. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor, Mr. Bird, I'm really sorry, but I'm too excited about this. I
want to make the motion. I move we approve H-2017-0027.
Bird: Second.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: Maybe we could make it unanimous on the secon d and we can skip
the vote. Oh. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
B. Public Hearing Continued from March 21, 2017 for Willey
#2 (H-2017-0017) by Volante Investments, LLLP Located
3920 E. Lanark Street
1. Request: City Council Review of the Director's
Decision to Deny the Outdoor Storage Associated
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April 4, 2017
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with the Approved Use
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Thank you. Sorry to interrupt. But 9-B, the Council does have to vote to --
De Weerd: I know. I was asking -- I thought -- I think I messed up. So, I
apologize. 9-B, the applicant did request to vacate this item. Council, I do need
a motion from you to accept their withdrawal of this application .
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we accept the applicant's request to withdraw this application H -
2017-0017.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the request for withdrawal
for Item 9-B. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
D. Public Hearing for Sign Ordinance Text Amendment (H-
2017-0009) by West Ada School District
1. Request: Unified Development Code (UDC) Text
Amendment to Modify UDC 11-3D-8C to Allow an
Increase in Background Area and Sign Height of
Freestanding Signs for Multi-Family and Allowed Non-
Residential Uses in Residential Zoning Districts
De Weerd: 9-D is a public hearing for a sign ordinance text amendment on H-
2017-0009. I will open the public hearing with staff comments.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Next item on the
agenda is a sign ordinance text amendment. Again, if this goes into effect this
policy will be citywide for and make changes to our sign ordinance code. This
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application does come before you from a request from the joint -- or West Ada
School District. What we have seen over the years is our local schools are
needing to increase their signages and particularly those schools that have
frontages on an arterial and collector roadways and so rather than rezoning all
the school districts' property, staff met with the school district representatives and
some sign company representatives and we came up with a solution to modify
our current sign code so that it meets the needs for them and also meets the
intent of the sign ordinance and also provides that extra public service
announcements that the school district needs as far as school events. So, the
changes that the school district is proposing this evening are represented to you
in the red text. Our Planning and Zoning Commission did confirm these
proposed changes with some modifications, but really right now currently the way
the sign ordinance is written is any school district that has a residential zoning
district is limited to a sign height of six feet and a background area 50 square feet
and it doesn't matter where you're located at, internal to a subdivision, external to
a subdivision, that's what you get. In our other commercial districts there is sign
specifications for freestanding signs. However, if you're on a collector street or
an arterial roadway and you have 750 feet of street frontage, you have the ability
to increase your signage and so that's what the school district is proposing. So,
examples in this case would be Rocky Mountain High School , they have more
than 750 square feet of -- or 750 linear street frontage, so that would allow them
the ability under this proposal to get a taller and larger sign , to not only convey
school events, but also public service announcements and maybe even with the
winter that we just had they can also get that information out to the pub lic saying,
hey, snow removal is coming in your area. I mean I can see it serving multiple
ways. One thing that the Planning and Zoning Commission was concerned
about was whether or not a subdivision that has a common lot on an arterial or
collector road, would they be eligible to get the same tall signage for their
subdivision entryway and get a reader board and do those things and advertise
events in the subdivision and what I assured the Planning and Zoning
Commission was this only applies to free standing signs. The sub -- the signs
that you see for subdivisions are regulated under a different section in our code
and they are defined as a subdivision identification sign. So, this change only
applied to business identification signs. It does not apply to subdivision entry
signs moving forward. One other -- one other question that came up at the
Planning and Zoning Commission or items discussed was how much that
changeable copy can change with the amount of text. So, for example, currently
businesses, if they have an electronic reader board and they have a message on
that, it's meant to scroll at a certain pace and not change rapidly, so you're not
distracting drivers as they go down the road. Staff -- currently the way it's written
electronic reader boards in a residential district , the changeable copy message
has to be stagnant for one hour intervals.
De Weerd: One hour?
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Parsons: One hour. It's -- they can change every hour, unless it's a longer
message and, then, it can have a continuous scroll -- scroll to convey that
message. But, then, it has to stay in place for one hour. Currently the way the
applicant had originally proposed it to change eight seconds consistent with our
other zoning districts at eight second intervals. Staff had originally recommended
15 minute increments. Planning and Zoning Commission at the public hearing
decided to go with a 15 second interval and so that's what you see as part of the
proposal tonight. So, testifying in favor of this application was Virginia
Cunningham, Mike Hirano, Ted Christensen, and Tim Claire. Staff did not
receive any written testimony on the application since the P&Z commission. As I
mentioned to you, a couple things that were discussed. The differences between
a subdivision identification sign and also free-standing signage and, then, also
the time period for which a message is conveyed with a changeable copy sign
and that's why you see that modification this evening and so that -- as I
mentioned to you the only change the Commission made was to the timing that
those messages can be conveyed at a 15 second interval in lieu of that one hour
as currently written in code. So, to my knowledge there aren't any outstanding
issues before you this evening. Again, staff and the Planning and Zoning
Commission did recommend approval of these changes and with that I'd stand
for questions you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bill. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Do you have anything you would like to
add?
Hirano: Madam Mayor, Council Members, my name is Mike Hirano, principal at
Rocky Mountain High School. 5450 North Linder Road.
De Weerd: Can you pull both of those mics maybe towards you. There you go.
Hirano: Is that better?
De Weerd: Thank you.
Hirano: This reader board has been in place for about five years of trying to get
those things set up. The biggest issue is that we can't communicate with our
community, letting them know what's going on. We are at the entranceway to a
subdivision. Concerns have come up is not knowing when games are, we are
locked in. Patrons can't get to their homes when there are games going on . We
are, yes, very large. We are the largest in Idaho. Twenty-four hundred right
now. And the idea is to get the information out to our patrons, so that they know
what's happening at the high school, what's going on in our community, what
they can expect. Having a small sign to me becomes a driving hazard, because
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you have to kind of look around the cars to see what's -- what's going on on the
reader board. At least when it is at 15 feet it can be seen. So, that is the request
from Rocky Mountain High School. We are asking for the reader board. And we
are asking for your approval. Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Mr. Hirano?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone
who wishes to provide testimony? Thank you for joining us. If you will, please,
state your name and address for the record.
Christensen: Yes, good evening, Madam Mayor and City Council Members. My
name is Todd Christensen. I reside at 2145 West Ditch Creek in the Lochsa
Falls neighborhood, right across from Rocky Mountain. And I stand to speak in
favor of the proposed ordinance change, allowing increased signage size in the
appropriate zones, including not only the size, but also the height as Mr. Hirano
referenced the eight foot or six foot height for my opinion would be a distraction
and it would also cause a greater concern as it relates to line of sight for vehicles
entering and exiting the school facility. We are supporting or in support of this as
an opportunity to communicate to the neighborhood , as well as to the community.
I drive past that facility on a regular frequent basis, on a daily basis, and it would
be nice to know activities to -- with no offense to Mr. Hirano, but avoid the school
and be able to take another entrance in and out of the -- the neighborhood. As it
relates to the 15 seconds interval, we are supportive of that. It's an opportunity to
be able to see more information in an appropriate time frame and so ask for your
favorable approval of this. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Todd. Any questions for Todd? Thank you. Any
additional testimony? Good evening. If you, please, state your name and
address.
Claire: Yes. My name is Tim Claire. I reside at 4079 West Moon Lake Street for
the prior 19 years here in Meridian. Madam Mayor and Members of the Council,
first of all I want to say thanks for letting me state my opinion. I am here as both
a parent, as well as a supporter and booster of Rocky Mountain High School. I
have been closely involved with Rocky Mountain since the school opened its
doors in 2009. My oldest son attended that school, graduated, and I still have
kids in that school that's graduating next year. So, I have been working very hard
in initiatives with Rocky Mountain High School. So, I am here to express my
support for three ordinance for three primary reasons. The first one is safety.
Using a taller reader board with a wider viewing area can be seen further away,
allowing for drivers to read what's on the board at a longer distance . A smaller
sign with a smaller viewing area would make it more difficult, concentrate the
vehicles that are reading the sign in a smaller area. Second to that, information
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-- our community should know exactly what's going on at our school . It's
important. Recently I was working on a Cap Ed -- if you're familiar with it, the
Cap Ed sports complex, which we just completed. Very proud of that -- the
building that we put up. But I was out there working late at night and the parking
lot was full of cars. I had no idea what was going on. I'm at Rocky every single
night. I called my son, he's a junior in high school, oh, yeah, there is a basketball
game tonight, Centennial versus Rocky Mountain. Now, if that's the way we are
supposed to get our information, we are not going to get a lot of information. So,
I know that's not the primary way to get it. The -- other people in our community
actually would attend events, no question in my mind. How do they get this
information? It's typical that they would not go to the website and look this up. A
reader board would solve this issue. And, finally, is revenue. It's important to
note with greater knowledge of Rocky Mountain a ctivities attendance would
increase at events. When attendance increases, of course, you get more
revenue. Revenue can be sued to enhance the experience of the students, as
well as the committee -- community. Excuse me. So, Madam Mayor and
Members of the Council, I appreciate you giving me this opportunity to speak in
favor of this initiative and hope you support the ordinance.
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Any questions from Council? Appreciate you
joining us. Any further testimony? Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing how we have no more public testimony, I move we close the public
hearing on H-2017-0009.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on 9 -D. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Real quick before a motion. Bill, is there a reason under paragraph D
that we don't add the sentence : This does not apply in residential subdivisions?
I meant to ask you that earlier, but when you made that comment why not just
say it, so we are not having to go back and forth?
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Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Borton, the
reason why we don't need to add that here is because we have in our -- in our
definition section of the UDC we define what each type of sign is and so -- and,
then, in our sign ordinance we also have -- here is the requirement for a
subdivision identification sign and here is your requirement for a free-standing
sign. So, they are two different definitions. If that's something that Council wants
to add to this we certainly can, but it's not meant to be included as -- it's not
meant to be that. But I think the way code is written now I don't see a need for
that statement to be put in place in there.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: However, it just makes the code clearer for those reading it without
having to refer to another part.
Parsons: Absolutely. And that's always the goal; right? So, we don't have you
hunt and peck through the ordinance and not find the answers you're looking for.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: So, that was a good point, Mr. Borton.
Borton: And not to totally grind this to a halt, but that's exactly what we want to
avoid. If, for example, a subdivision comes in down the road and it's not an
identification sign, but for whatever reason a subdivision wants to put up a -- a
reader board sign and sell advertising and raise revenue, you know, and the
subdivision isn't -- isn't named on the sign at all, but they want to do just this, they
wouldn't be prohibited from doing so; correct?
Parsons: Incorrect. They -- Councilman Borton, they would be. You're not
allowed to have a freestanding sign on vacant property. So, basically, there is
not structure, no tenant associated with that sign, so, then, we would look at that
as a billboard and we would tell them that they could not do that. If it was a
freestanding sign that's -- that's the difference there.
Borton: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Anymore questions? If not, I move we approve H-2017-0009, the text
amendment to modify UDC 11-3D-8C.
Little Roberts: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9 -D. Any discussion
from Council?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Just a thought as -- as Councilman Borton was talking about
subdivisions, I guess maybe we should add some clarifying verbiage to that. I
can see how if somebody really wanted to they could put it by the clubhouse or
there wouldn't -- find somewhere that's not vacant land -- I don't know. So, that's
just me out there kind of -- I don't care, but if you think that's a possibility, then,
we should probably cover our bases. You brought it up.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I agree with the concept. It's just the -- it's the unintended consequence
that a simple change which makes total sense for the right reason to approve,
but if there is some other use that isn't what is intended.
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the other -- the other
difference here is in our code we have a section that says subdivision
identification signs and, then, we have a section that says business identification
signs and so that's really the distinction there. Under our business identification
signs staff will specify the requirements for a wall sign, a projecting sign, a
freestanding sign, electronic reader board, all of those things are meant to go
with a business and so I see the concern, but I'm not understanding how an HOA
could be defined as a business, but you never know. If it's revenue for the HOA
someone might -- might try to do that, so --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If all that being said you got to come down and have a conversation with
planning staff and walk through the steps you just walk ed through that you know
like the back of your hand, their folks don't, so if there is ever an opportunity like
that just to say you can't do it in a subdivision. I mean if it's duplicative, then, so
be it, but if it makes it easier for someone to read it and go, oh, doesn’t apply to
subdivisions. It's in twice, but --
Parsons: Well, the -- the other portion of the code that you don't see here,
Councilman Borton, is that this says applies to multi-family developments and
allowed non-residential uses and, then, again, an HOA common lot is a
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residential use. So, again, it would not -- it only applies to multi-family
developments and allowed nonresidential uses. So, daycares, nursing homes,
something that's a school, a church. It kind of opens the door for them -- for
those businesses that have that frontage on an arterial collector roadway with
that 750 feet of frontage, not just 150 feet, but you have to have a substantial
street frontage in order to get that sign. So, that's -- that's the one point of
clarification I should have made is that this is really meant for multi -families and
allowed nonresidential uses.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Any further discussion? Or a substitute motion? Okay. Mr. Clerk,
will you, please, call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Public Hearing for East Ridge Estates Subdivision (H-
2016-0137) by DevCo, LLC Located North of E. Lake
Hazel Road, West of S. Eagle Road
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 40.99 Acres of
Land with an R-8 Zoning District
2. Request: Preliminary Plat Approval Consisting of 117
Building Lots and Fourteen (14) Common Lots on
40.99 Acres of Land in a Proposed R-8 Zoning District
De Weerd: Item 9-E is a public hearing for H-2016-0137. I will open this public
hearing with staff comments.
Beach: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. As you said,
this is an application both for annexation and zoning and for a preliminary plat .
The site consists of -- let me get the right mouse here. The site consists of
approximately 40.99 acres of land, with an R-8 -- excuse me -- zoned RUT in
Ada County. It's north of East Lake Hazel Road, west of South Eagle Road.
This is an annexation, so there is no current history with the city on this property.
The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation for this is -- it's split
and I believe I have it incorrectly on my slide here. It's split between low density
residential and medium density residential. The applicant has applied for
annexation and zoning of, as I said, 40.99 acres of land with an R-8 zoning
district. Staff believes the proposed zoning is consistent with the policies in the
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Comprehensive Plan. The proposed plat consist of 117 building lots and 14
common lots in the proposed R-8 zoning district. The property is proposed to
develop in five phases. Phase one is to commence off the stub street from East
Cyanite Drive -- if you follow my mouse here it's up on the north side, which
would be an extension of Cyanite coming out of the Blackrock subdivision and
generally continue from the north to the south and the fifth and final phase along
the northern boundary will include an additional stub street to the north. The fifth
phase of development will be nonbuildable until such time as the property to the
north is developed and in general staff is supportive of the proposed phasing
plan. So, just for reference sake, this would be the fifth phase up here in the
northeast corner with the stub street as I mentioned in this location here. The
gross density for the subdivision is 2.85 dwelling units per acre. The lots range in
size from 6,600 square feet to over 12,500 square feet, with an average lot size
of 9,475 square feet. Access, as I said, is proposed for the site via one access
from East Lake Hazel Road and via the extension of an existing stub street from
the Blackrock Subdivision, which is the East Cyanite Drive, as I mentioned. The
applicant is proposing seven common driveways in the project. Staff has
reviewed the dimensions of the common driveways depicted on the plat and they
are consistent with the standards, except for the common driveway that is
proposed to provide access to Lots 43 through 45, of Block 1, which will come off
of Lake Hazel as you can see here on the map here, this -- to make sure we
understood where that was. Staff recommends that the applicant reconfigure the
southeast corner of the plat, so that those lots take access from East Cyanite
Drive, which is -- if you can't see is this road here that will run up an d connect
with the existing Cyanite Drive out of the Blackrock Subdivision. The condition
as written indicates that they either extend a common driveway or extend the
road to those lots or those become nonbuildable lots until such time as the
property directly to the east are further developed. A 25 foot wide street buffer or
street landscape buffer, excuse me, is required and proposed along East Lake
Hazel Road A minimum of ten percent qualified open space is required to be
provided for this development, based on the area of the preliminary plat, which,
as I said, is approximately 40.99 acres. A minimum of 4.09 acres of qualified
open space is required to be provided and a total of 8.41 acres or 20.52 percent
of the qualified open -- of the project is proposed as qualified open space, which
consists of half the street buffer along East Lake Hazel Road, in micropaths, and
internal common open space areas, including a nature path and associated
naturally vegetated area, which appears to comply with that requirement as well.
All development consisting of five acres or more are required to provide a
minimum of one site amenity. One additional site amenity is required for each
additional 20 acres in accord with the UDC. Based on the area of this plat,
which, as I said, is approximately 40.99 acres, staff requires a minimum of two
qualified site amenities be provided. The applicant proposes to provide -- go
back here. So, the applicant proposes to provide a common open space lot here
centrally located, will consist of a plaza and raised overlook area, as well as a
covered picnic area and several seating areas along the nature path and if you
follow my -- follow my mouse here, the nature path will approximately go in this
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red line here. This is where the nature path is. And there is a picnic area -- a
picnic area is indicated on the landscape plan, as well as several benches along
that -- what they are calling their -- their nature path. The applicant has
submitted some conceptual elevations for the project. Included in this exhibit
building materials appear to consist of a mix of board and batten and horizontal
lap siding with shake singles -- shake shingles and stone accents. The
Commission did recommend approval. Summary of the public hearing. The
applicant Mr. Conger was in favor. In opposition were Tim Foster, Dawn Murphy,
Kathy Baumgartner, Lani Wageman, Jim Stroo, Chad Hamel, Becky McKay, Don
Cantrell, and Sherrie Ewing. Those were the same who made comment. We did
not receive written testimony. I was the staff representing the application, as well
as Bill Parsons also commented. Several key issues of discussion by the
Commission were timing of the roadway improvements and when the entrance to
Lake Hazel will be built. Timing of the development of the northeast corner of the
plat. Is the open space sufficient for the development. Is direct access to Lake
Hazel appropriate for the southeast corner of the development . Key issues of
public testimony were concerns of the traffic study was not -- was done
incorrectly. Concerns that all construction traffic will come through the Blackrock
Subdivision. Can the Lake Hazel entrance be built right away, so that all
construction traffic can come through that entrance . Is the transition and lot sizes
from the surrounding lots sufficient. Concerns about the limited sewer capacity
and the appropriateness of developing this area before greater capacity is built .
Concerns about the proposed zoning and density of the proposed subdivision . A
fencing proposed around the perimeter of the subdivision. Is the open space and
amenity package sufficient for the development. Commission made one change
to a condition -- they modified condition 1.1.1G to read as this follows: The five
foot detach sidewalk along East Lake Hazel Road, west of East Ridge Avenue.
Pull this back up here, so we can see what we are talking about. I will read that
again. The five foot detached sidewalk along East Lake Hazel Road, west of
East Ridge Avenue. So, this would be East Ridge Avenue here. So, the
sidewalk on the west side of this shall be constructed with phase two of the
development and a five foot detached sidewalk east of East Ridge Avenue and
the 25 foot landscape buffer along the entire frontage of Lake Hazel Road shall
be constructed with the third phase. There are no outstanding issues for Council.
We received a large number of written testimony since the Commission hearing.
Last count approximate 210 letters and petitions were received . The concerns
expressed include the proposed density, lot sizes, lack of a transition in lot sizes,
lack of usable open space and amenities, traffic, construction traffic through the
Blackrock Subdivision, desire to maintain large lots in the area of the city,
inconsistency of the Comprehensive Plan, et cetera. With that I will stand for any
questions you have.
Radek: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Public Works wants to make an
additional comment as well. In the staff report condition 2.1.2, we have the
sewers available to this property under the temporary arrangement that was
made for the Southern Highlands and White Bark Subdivisions. However, Public
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Works states that there is only sufficient capacity to construct an additional 16
homes on this temporary service until additional capacity is provided through the
extension of the southwestern leg of the Ten Mile trunk sewer and here is the
clarifying -- the part that needs to be clarified -- or if additional capacity identified
in the new wastewater master planning effort that is scheduled to be completed
later this year and what we need to clarify is that there is no guarantee that if
additional capacity is identified in the new master planning effort that it will be
available to East Ridge Estates development or any other development out of the
proper sewer shed, which is the current temporary arrangement that was
referenced in -- in the condition, because that has to be a -- an out-of-sewer
service needs to be approved by the city engineer and it's -- there is some
likelihood the city engineer will not approve that if the anticipated southwest
branch of the Ten Mile trunk sewer will be constructed in the near future. So, just
want to make that clarifying comment.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Bird: I have none.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Josh, can you summarize for us what the concerns were about the
traffic study being done incorrectly?
Beach: No. So -- so, there is a number of concerns and I think a lot of those
were expressed at the -- at the Commission hearing as to -- they were done in
the wrong spot at the wrong time of day from what I remember . It was a concern
that they were done on Cyanite. I don't remember the exact concern. I believe
we will have some public testimony in that regard from what I'm hearing.
Cavener: Sounds like it.
Beach: But concerns that it was done incorrectly, so they will be able to clear
that up with some public testimony.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, one additional question.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Josh, can you walk us through Planning and Zoning's discussion about
modifying condition 1.1.1G, the sidewalks with phase two and phase three?
Beach: Absolutely. So, there was public testimony we heard from -- from the
public, funny enough, that with the new park that will be constructed there on the
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south side of Lake Hazel, we wanted a way to get those folks to the park and the
way to do that would be getting the sid ewalk installed as soon as we possibly
and some public testimony we received from the applicant himself indicated that
the second phase would be the best time to get that, since the first phase would
be, as you're looking here on the plat, roughly this area and that the road would
be constructed I believe in the second phase, which would, then, provide those
folks a way to get down to the sidewalk that would be built.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, anything further? Would the applicant like to make
comment? Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Conger: Yes. Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Jim
Conger. 4824 West Fairview Avenue.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Conger: We have a great project in front of you today and what I want to start
out with is -- is kind of talk about our surroundings and the Comprehensive Plan
is where I will start. We are in the blue square, which, as Josh indicated, is on
Lake Hazel and, again, Lake Hazel -- I don't know if you quite fully understand it,
is slated to be a seven lane arterial and one of your -- one of your major east-
west basically transportation corridors. We are between Eagle Road and
Meridian as you can tell and we are across the street from your 80 acre regional
park that is slated to start next summer. We and a lot of other Meridian and
county residents are pretty excited about that . And in the upper right-hand
corner you can see we are barely a mile away from the new YMCA that's
underway and we are all -- it's -- I know quite a few people that have put a lot of
effort into getting that off the ground. The city's planning vision starts at the focal
point, as you can see in the brown area , which is the neighborhood center, which
is slated for commercial, as well as residential uses, up to 15 units per acre. So,
with that, as you move towards our project, you come into the -- what I will call
the orange or rust area that's towards our project and also on our adjacent
neighbor, which is the medium high density, which is up to 15 units per acre.
Coming into our property and adjacent to Blackrock above you see the medium
residential, which is up to eight residential units per acre. As you fade east it
goes to three lots per acre and, then, back up to the high density of Eagle Road,
of course. Our project is 2.8 units per acre -- houses per acre. We are well
under the three. We aren't getting anywhere near the eight, but that's -- as
density increases towards the neighborhood center. As your planning guidelines
indicate, you cannot have a successful neighborhood center without the proper
residential densities that go along. That is why your master plan is what it is.
Looking at our site plan and kind of walking through that and kind of working
again starting at Lake Hazel on our south boundary, we have accommodated for
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hundred foot right of way and that is a hundred, not -- not your typical 50 you see
-- that's going to accommodate the seven lanes that are required. We have a
boulevard feel as we -- feel as we come into the center of our project, which does
take us -- you know, kind of terminates in our social gathering space that Josh
indicated earlier, which uses -- functions as our viewing platform. The yellow
area is our rim lots, with amazing views of Bogus, the entire valley and the
foothills, which is why we took that central location. It also has the same views
for our -- for our social gathering area. In the gray area up to the center of the
property in the -- basically the right side of the property is our riparian area that
will consist of enhancing the seasonal creek as a water amenity as we noted.
We will also have the nature pathway that Josh was discussing that will follow the
creek in the bottom of that gully and provide a truly unique walking experience.
Our property has 60 foot of vertical fall from the center to that -- that boundary at
the bottom. So, it is one of a handful of properties that we have developed in the
past. It truly is extremely unique with not only the riparian area that exists --
riparian area that exists, but also with the topography on that east boundary. We
will always have the benches and the picnic areas placed throughout that walking
area. Our open space, as Josh indicated, is closer to 25 percent of the project.
Ten percent is what the requirement is. We are more than double. And that all
stems from how magnificent the topography and that existing riparian area is.
We designed our entire project around it and did as least amount as we could in
that riparian area to keep it as natural as possible when we are done. Touching
base on our housing product that you saw. We will range from 2,000 to 3,500
square feet. Our price points will be 325 to 750 thousand dollars for the rims. I
will go through our phasing Josh alluded to. That yellow area is our phase one,
which is determined by the existing location of utilities in the front. The grey area
is our phase two, kind of in the central location. You can see the majority of that
boulevard and connection to Lake Hazel is in phase three, but we are committing
to building that in phase two, so that will be a phase two activity and that is of
record as well and that's also in the record with Planning and Zoning
Commission. As well we will be building that Lake Hazel sidewalk from that
connector all the way to our west boundary. So, our residents, the Blackrock
residents, anybody will be able to take either our pathway systems or the
sidewalk system and, then, ultimately get to east -- East Ridge Avenue, which
will be our boulevard out and walk out in phase two. We will not wait for phase
three for those activities. As Josh indicated, about a common drive in the bottom
right-hand corner, you see we have a Lot 42. We did resubmit a modified plat
after the Planning and Zoning Commission with our -- we are fine without the
condition as written. No direct access to East Lake -- East Lake Hazel Road. In
our meetings with Mr. Palmer, your fire marshal, and just our marketing team, we
deleted -- we went from three lots to one lot. So, we deleted two lots in that
corner. So, that's why you're hearing me say 2.8 versus Josh's number of as far
as homes per acre. So, we -- we have already made those modifications, have
those resubmitted, you know, ten or 14 days ago. We did have a meeting with
the neighbors and there was some requests that we were able to accommodate.
First, you know, the Blackrock neighbors in particular requested that we match
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their side yard setbacks adjacent to our property boundary. So, we were able to
accommodate on our three lots that front their three lots. We -- we were -- we
took the ten foot side yard setbacks and put that in our original appli cation.
That's not at Planning and Zoning or later. That's been from day one. We were
able to accommodate that. It was also requested that any fencing adjacent to
their boundary be iron fencing. We -- we accepted and agreed to that and put
that in our original application. Lastly, it was discussed having home sites
adjacent to Blackrock be of larger sizes and -- and a bit on that west boundary.
We did create our largest home sites in this area in an effort to accommodate
that request. Obviously, you will hear from tonight that, you know, they would
certainly love larger home sites. Those homes sites that we did put in are larger
than the rest of our -- you know, the balance of our home sites. In closing, we
have put a lot of effort and planning and passion into all of our communities and
this one's no different, that we come in with. We have a great plat. We are at 2.8
homes per acre in an area that would and does call from more and as you get
close to your neighborhood center certainly our properties beside this will be at
greater density to achieve the city's vision. As you can see in the staff report, we
had recommendations for approval from all agencies, as well as the project was
approved by the Ada County Highway District with the traffic study that
everybody is alluding to or going to allude to . In consideration of East Ridge
Estates, we just want to note that one cannot simply look at what's out there
today, we must look at what is comprehensively planned for this area and for the
City of Meridian in the future. We concur with the staff report that's presented to
you tonight and as recommended by your Planning and Zoning Commission and
move forward with that modified condition that they put in. And that is it for now.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions at this time?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Sorry, Mr. Conger, I'm going to jump in and give you a hard time right
away, because that's what I do. But I see you have got 117 lots and you're not
probably expecting very many children here, because you got nowhere for them
to play and everybody kind of knows this is my hang up. But tot lots I do believe
are -- obviously, not a requirement, you have met the minimum -- minimum
requirements for amenities, so I look at this and I think it's very minimal. Picnic
area, a couple benches, and a little raised viewing area to me -- personally I don't
see what that does for that large of -- that number of homes. So, that would be
my -- I don't know if that's really a question or a comment, but that's something
that I'm taking into consideration. I did have a question regarding -- find this up
just for those couple of lots. Are there any other homes adjacent to this where
we could see the lots lined up next to neighboring or is there --
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Conger: Madam Mayor, Councilmember Milam, I will address the second
question first. We are lined up against the three to the north that you indicated .
Our -- our western boundary, the homeowner owns a -- a fair amount of property
and their house is -- is set almost -- they own two parcels and it's set further
west. So, we don't necessarily have a property -- house next to us and if you
look on our east boundary, the right of your screen now that Josh put up, we
have one home -- we -- we certainly don't -- don't have much density there either
and down at the bottom it's undeveloped and to the north it's undeveloped.
Milam: Thank you.
Conger: Now, question one, we put a tremendous amount of effort and market
study into our amenities. The City of Meridian certainly has their base standards.
We don't typically meet those. We typically exceed those. So, as far as what we
see with our homeowners, these are more mature, more passive areas. Walking
paths are important. I have lots of slides on our amenities. Our amenity -- our
amenity package from a financial standpoint, that -- that little viewing area that
we all say with three words or, you know, kind of platform viewing area, is -- is
actually retaining walls, trellises, covered areas. I mean it is extremely nice and
extremely -- kind of more of a Cafe Bistro type atmosphere, for lack of a better
term, with the views that it has. The passive nature walking path is going to get
used, you know, pets, people. It actually comes up for a majority of it all soft path
and, then, they would be able to go to our neighborhood and we have some
great micropaths connecting each other that will make that actually a loop that's
just a little under a mile for that walking path. Now, as far as tot lots, you have
seen us in front of you before with magnificent tot lots and climbing structures
and things of that nature, because we had more, you know, probably smaller
homes, two story product, lots of kids, things of that nature. We don't see that
here and we are going to be directly across the street from your 80 acre regional
park and I know you have probably seen that master plan, which is absolutely
spectacular. There isn't a tot lot in the world that I could provide that will be
better than what would be across the street.
Milam: Thank you for the answer. Madam Mayor? One more question then.
So, the city has capacity for 16 sewer hookups and your phase one has 37 it
looks like homes. So, what is your plan there?
Conger: Correct. Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, we are in the planning
process and getting approvals. As you all know with land development that
planning process takes a specific amount of time, not only from approvals, but,
then, designs and financing. We understand the limitations and we understand
your Public Works. We have been engaged with this property for 12 months at a
minimum. Those conditions are acceptable and we fully understand them . So,
we aren't developing phase one until we have enough sewer.
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De Weerd: Anything further from Council at this point? Okay. We will enter into
the public hearing section and I will ask our city clerk -- or, Council, any
comments before we enter into the public hearing section? Okay. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Laurie Koga signed up against the project,
but indicated she does not wish to testify. Christine Herwe signed up against the
project and does wish to testify.
Herwy: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record.
Henry: Sure. My name is Christine Herwy. I live in Blackrock. My address is
2373 East Taconic Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Herwy: What I would like to say -- I have a lot of things to say, but I will try to
keep it succinct. We bought in Blackrock in 2007. We looked a very, very long
time to find the perfect space. We looked in Eagle. We looked in Boise. We
looked -- we looked everywhere and at that point in time in 2006 and 2007 acres
were going for 450,000. It was insane. We also did not really want to live on that
side of Meridian, because it just had become very congested. We are starting a
family. We had two large dogs. We lived on just -- right around the Tuscany
area and we really loved this area. We finally found what we were looking for in
Blackrock. It took a really long time. We have great access to the freeway. We
have room to grow. We have neighbors that have built estate lots where their
homes are worth, you know, 500 to over a million dollars. Everybody has a lot of
pride in where they live. Up above us we have got large acreages, five, ten, two
acres on all sides. It is kind of one of those last destinies of undeveloped
paradise where you can still feel like you have somewhat of a sanctuary to go
after you go to your crazy busy job. I work at the Capitol building. I like to come
back here and have it -- I can hear the cows mooing and so forth. It's -- it's very
hard to find. It was hard to find in 2006 and '7. I can imagine it's even harder to
find. So, we are very concerned. It's not that we are thinking that it would never
be developed per se, it's just that we are concerned in that what we bought -- the
vision that we bought into was RUT and R-2 when we bought. Now, this has
come before us. This is a complete -- like almost feels like a bait-and-switch.
We bought into kind of a more -- more rural area and at that time when we
looked that's what it was planned to be. Now, you know, my child goes to
Hillsdale. I'm thrilled that there is -- there is all sorts of housing around us.
However, I feel as though rezoning to R-8 really is a disservice to the rim. I
mean as Mr. Conger stated, it's beautiful. Why would we want to stick a whole
bunch of little houses in there when there is already a precedence of nice estate
houses on larger plots? So, I guess I just want to say that we love where we live,
Meridian City Council
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we are proud to live there, we want it to stay somewhat congruent -- we know
that maybe, you know, one acre lots around us is not going to happen, but R-8 is
-- is certainly not what we had bargained for. I also want to indicate that Mr.
Conger had said that -- that Lake Hazel was going to be seven lanes. But I have
the ACHD staff report that says, in fact, that it would only be -- Lake Hazel Road
is listed in the CIP to be widened to three lanes from Meridian Road to Locust
Grove between 2026 and 2030 and on the other side, the intersection of Lake
Hazel Road and Eagle Road is set in the CIP to be just five lanes on the north --
four lanes on the south, four lanes east, and three lanes on the west, between
2021 and 2025. So, as you're going to hear probably from my neighbors, we are
just concerned that maybe it's not all factual what's being said and at the different
meetings and one more thing I wanted to say. In general there was a -- there
was a mention that by -- I think at the Planning and Zoning that you didn't hear a
lot from us. It was because this process is really hard for a homeowner to
understand what the heck you're supposed to do when , where, the process.
Three hundred feet for a notice is really not adequate, especially when you live --
and you're out in a place where there might not be a house for 300 feet . And so
to have these neighborhood meetings be noticed at 300 feet , we would ask that
that would be widened, especially for areas where it's lower density and maybe
underdeveloped. Also it would be really nice in those notices if there was some
tips for owners where to go to -- so they can meet with city, find the documents,
know the process, et cetera. So, I appreciate your time tonight and thank you for
letting me have a say.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Coles: Nichole Brown signed up against and does not wish to testify. George
Palmer signed up against and does not wish to testify. Barbara Burlac signed up
against and does not wish to testify. Al Burlac signed up against and does not
wish to testify. Dennis Montierth signed up against, does not wish to testify. Lisa
Broderick signed up against, does not wish to testify. Susanna Bowman signed
up against, does not wish to testify. Tim Foster signed up against, does not wish
to testify. Melody Wheeler signed up against, does not wish to testify. Shelby
Moore signed up against, does not wish to testify. Gene Vance signed up
against, does not wish to testify. Harley Vance signed up against, does not wish
to testify. Sharon Clark signed up against, does not wish to testify. Don
Baumgartner signed up against and does wish to testify. He's not here. Lauren
Baumgartner signed up against and does not wish to testify. Michelle Macomber
signed up against, does not wish to testify. Andrea Tusic signed up against,
does not wish to testify. Margaret Hopkins signed up against, does not wish to
testify. Tracy Hopkins sign up against, does not wish to testify. Melba Regan
signed up against, does not wish to testify. Joe Regan signed up against, does
not wish to testify. Doug Wheeler sign up against and does wish to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
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April 4, 2017
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Wheeler: Good evening.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Wheeler: All right. Doug Wheeler. 2402 Taconic Drive. Madam Mayor,
Members of the Council. As you hear, my name is Doug Wheeler, so I don't
have to say that again, but I'm honored to be able to speak on behalf of our
homeowners association. I got to be the president this year so I will speak --
De Weerd: Congratulations.
Wheeler: Yeah. I know you all feel the same. Blackrock homeowners oppose
the proposed annexation and R-8 zoning for the East Ridge Estates. But it is
important to note that we do not oppose development there. Just the idea that
how it will be. We want development that appropriately reflects the vision and
intent of the city's Comprehensive Plan, which many of us have read. A plan that
values Meridian's existing neighborhoods and their stakeholders' investment in
our city and that serves as a guide to appropriate thoughtful managed growth.
We respectfully ask the Council deny the application and send it back to P&Z for
revisions for the following reasons: First of all, lack of reasonable transition.
Should have an aerial here. Okay. You can see it there. Blackrock
neighborhood, which is north of the proposed subdivision, has 44 lots on about
45 acres. Sizes range from .51 to one acre, which ends up being about 22,000
square feet for the smaller ones and 43,000 for the larger. Blackrock is clearly
and by any definition a low density neighborhood. Indeed, this entire section of
Meridian's scenic south rim is well established and defined by its expansive lot
sizes as shown in the aerial shots. Off Locust Grove nearby there are many
single family homes that are located on five acres lots. To the immediate west of
this proposed subdivision is a single home on ten acres. To its immediate east
and nearby are single family homes on two acres. So, in essence, this section of
Meridian's south rim has an established identity of large estate lots and gener ous
open spaces. That's why the homeowners bought there originally, many looking
for two or three years before they settled there. In contrast, the average lot sizes
in the proposed East Ridge Estates are about 6,000 square feet, which is almost
a third of the size of the smallest lot in Blackrock and almost 1/12th of the size of
the two-acre neighbors. The developer's application states that the average lot
will be 9,475 square feet or well under a quarter acre. But ten of the largest lots
that are included in that calculation were described in staff's report to P&Z as
nonbuildable as designed. This rendering clearly demonstrates our point that the
density in East Ridge far exceeds any definition of a reasonable transition or
continuity as described in our city's Comprehensive Plan. Additionally, the
extreme slope of many of the lots will reduce the actual street level size, greatly
affecting the appearance of the subdivision. Therefore, Blackrock residents and
our neighbors have clearly demonstrated by the more than 200 petitions that
were sent and we have brought another 15 this evening. We believe that this
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development does not embrace the continuity and characteristics that are found
in existing south rim neighborhoods. We firmly believe this is in direct conflict to
the city's goal to preserve, quote, strong, viable and recognizable neighborhood
identities. Unquote. We do have safety concerns. During the P&Z hearing the
developer cited Cyanite Drive as the main construction route for the first few
phases of the five phase development. We oppose that dangerous route and
support ACHD site specific provisions of approval of a street and turn lane on
Lake Hazel and I believe some of them will be speaking to that later on. We also
see some discrepancies in the record. The plan approved by P&Z, which many
of us attended, does not appear to reflect the plan as described in the ACHD
approval summary. Because the ACHD summary was not uploaded to the city
website until after the P&Z meeting, we couldn't make much comment about that
at that meeting. ACHD appeared to review a single phase plan, while the P&Z
reviewed a five phase plan. This is troubling to us. ACHD's conditions of
approval requires the construction of East Ridge Avenue and a turn lane on Lake
Hazel. Charts relating to traffic in that summary stated not applicable regarding
Cyanite, suggesting to us that ACHD was unaware that the developer plans to
use Cyanite for construction of this development. During the discussion on the
topography between Blackrock and East Ridge, information was not quite factual
presented to the Commissioners, yet we were unable to provide any rebuttal at
that time, because the testimony time had been closed. The d iscussion focused
on a steep grade existing along an irrigation canal described as a riparian creek
in the parcel. One Commissioner observed that East Ridge homes would sit well
with those Blackrock Homes. In fact, though, the actual topography from
Blackrock to East Ridge is one of gradual grade going up, not down. In
calculating the housing density for the proposed subdivision it appears that the
Commissioners and staff may not have had or considered all of the information.
Existing R-2, R-4, and, of course, our effective 1.5 density in Blackrock, was
discussed. However, the existing single family tracks to the development's
immediate east and west were referred to as undeveloped, when, in fact, these
parcels are established two, five and ten acre single family estate homes. It
appears that these property densities were not recognized or considered in
discussion of the step up zoning designations. Thanks to the sweeping views of
the -- of the Boise range and Squaw Butte and in many locations even the
Owyhees and the Trinity mountains -- the south rim of Meridian is an area that is
highly coveted and defined by its open spaces and generous lot sizes. Families
have actively sought out this area and moved here for neighborhoods that
provide a home, serene scenic atmosphere where they can spread out in the
forever homes. Council well knows that the Spurwing area has a similar
attraction, that being the bench at that end of the city and it was given an
amendment in the city's plan in order to manage its desirable ambience and
lifestyle. These types of areas simply do not exist elsewhere in Meridian. We
believe that the south rim deserves the same thoughtful , managed and far
sighted planned. So, please, do not allow developments that do not enhance the
quality of our beautiful south rim neighborhoods. Please do not allow
development that may materially distract from the quality of the life and
Meridian City Council
April 4, 2017
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neighborhoods in these well-established identities. In conclusion, we asked that
the application for approval of East Ridge Estates be denied and sent back to
P&Z for further revisions that will create a neighborhood better suited to the
existing neighborhood identities of Meridian southern rim. As you can see the
amount of property is similar in Blackrock and the new proposed one. We have
44 homes. They are proposing 117. So, you can see quite a difference there.
We appreciate the time and we thank you for your thoughtful consideration of our
concerns. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Wheeler. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none at this time.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Wheeler, in your testimony you cited some safety concerns, but I
didn't -- I didn't quite hear what you were referring to. I didn't know if it was
related --
Wheeler: Traffic or -- we do have someone that will to be speaking on that.
Cavener: Great.
Wheeler: Thank you.
Cavener: Thank you.
Wheeler: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you so much.
Coles: Ben Shelton signed up against, but does not wish to testify. Kaitlyn
Boyce signed up against, does not wish to testify. Ann Shelton signed up
against and does wish to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us. If you will, please, state your name and
address for the record.
Shelton: My name is Ann Shelton. I live at 2498 East Cyanite Drive in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Shelton: My family and I are Idahoans through and through. Our ancestors
settled parts of north Meridian before Idaho was made a state in 1890. So, we
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April 4, 2017
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have deep roots here. My husband served 30 years in the military and when we
came home we came home to a very different Meridian than we left and we knew
that, because our families are all here and we visited many times over the years .
So, we started immediately looking for property to purchase and we wanted this
-- my parents lived on acreage and, actually, my husband's house he grew up in
is kitty corner to this property here. But we wanted desperately to have a place
for our children and grandchildren to be able to play and to be able to be
outdoors like we did when we were kids. So, we searched and we looked for
plans and we saw Blackrock Subdivision and when we found it, before we made
an offer on the property I did some research and at that time this East Ridge
Estates property was listed as five acre equestrian lots. I tried to find that again
on the internet to provide that for you this evening, but I couldn't find it, so -- but
that's what I found and, then, we made our offer on our property. My family is
very concerned with the amount of traffic that will be on Cyanite. Our property
directly is beside the new subdivision. We are right beside the south -- or the
east -- most east lot. We are right there. And I promise you that that little tiny
street with all these little ones and there are little children in several of those
homes. They are going to have traffic like nothing else and the plan to put that
road in after phase two, to Lake Hazel makes no sense. Those vehicles for the
construction traffic, the vehicles for the people when they move into their homes,
is really going to cause a lot of safety concerns. The last thing I'd like to say is
that I would also like you to maintain -- consider maintaining the same thing that
has happened in north Meridian on their rim. Those lots were cute and, then, the
next subdivisions that would go in would be smaller but they would not be R-8
and the next subdivision to go in -- I mean they were gradually maintained . So,
that there was a lovely transition between those properties . So, tonight I asked
you to, please, consider sending this back to Planning and Zoning, so that we
can get these properties to look commensurate with what's on north Meridian rim,
because that's why we bought there. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Ann. Council, any questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mrs. Shelton, just for clarification. You're concerned about --
De Weerd: Luke -- I'm sorry. Mr. Cavener, will you pull your mic closer to you.
Thank you.
Cavener: Here we go. Madam Mayor. Mrs. Shelton, your -- you reference your
concern about traffic. Is it that the road isn't designed to handle the amount of
vehicles that are going to be add?
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Shelton: Absolutely. The traffic study that was initially done was done -- done
for Taconic, which is our adjoining road. There is only one way in and one way
out of Blackrock Subdivision, so to add even this first phase of homes into -- and
it's a steep downhill onto Cyanite where they are going to curve around --
hopefully not land in somebody's house when they go down that street. I
encourage you to go drive up there and go look at it. That grade is steep. That's
why those rim lots are beautiful. It's because it is a steep rim. So, that's -- that's
our concern is that vehicles are going to be plowing through there.
Cavener: Thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? We have -- there is three letters in the packet from
Andrea Shelton.
Shelton: That would be me.
Cavener: Okay.
Shelton: Sorry.
Borton: They are dated the same date and I just wanted to make sure you're the
same person.
Shelton: Okay.
Borton: No question. I just wanted to --
Shelton: Same person.
Borton: All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you very much.
Shelton: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Coles: Jenny Lehman signed up against and does not wish to testify. Wendy
Webb signed up against and does wish to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here. If you will state your name and address
for the record.
Webb: My name is Wendy Webb. I live at 2299 East Lodge Trail Drive. I live in
the neighborhood just below Blackrock on the north side. Sky Mesa. Our family
also searched for about three years. My husband just retired from the military as
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well after 25 years of service and we are coming back to Idaho. Glad to be back.
I looked and looked and looked for a lot that was larger than half an acre in south
Meridian, because I knew that's where I wanted to be . Ten months ago we
purchased our home. It's on .82 acres. So, it's not just Blackrock that has the
larger acreage. Boise Hunter Homes did a little bit better job transitioning by
putting in some bigger lot sizes. Today and a couple weeks ago I have searched
on realtor.com. You cannot find a half acre lot in south Meridian to build on.
Why? Why? Someone told me it's greed. I don't know. I hate to think that it's
greed. But why is that not available? It's wanted. So, why would we consider
changing the zoning from half acre lots or larger to an eight homes per acre?
That's one concern I had that I thought we should be asking our community.
Why can you not find a half acre lot in Meridian -- south Meridian to build on?
Why? Then I'm concerned about the density. At 7:30 in the morning if you drive
down Eagle Road you get stopped halfway between Amity and Victory and it
takes about 20 minutes to get to Rocky -- or to get to Mountain View High
School. If you drive down Locust Road you get stopped about a quarter of a mile
past Amity and it takes 20 minutes to get to Mountain View High School , which is
two miles from there. I'm concerned that more housing is going to create more
traffic issues. I have a fourth grade daughter at Hillsdale Elementary. Thrilled
with the school. A beautiful, brand new, wonderful school. I love it. Her
classroom has received the 35th student and has an overcrowded aide. How
can the schools take in more students in that area? The school district is not
setup to handle that amount of new housing. We still have Sky Mesa that's
developing more homes. We still have Century Farms that are building more
homes in that area. So, I'm concerned about that kind of -- kind of density. This
area is on the very edge of city limits. Typically you don't have lots of smaller
homes on the edge of city limits. It's a beautiful area, like I said. We all bought
there because we -- ten months ago we never saw this coming and so we are --
we are very disappointed about that. Some concerns I have seen about the
street, Taconic. So, Cyanite turns into Taconic, which it, then, goes out to Eagle
Road. So, it's just -- not just Blackrock that is using that road, it's also Sky Mesa
and sometimes the White Bark. I think there are four bus stops on that road, so
there is concern with children on that road. But I think the speed limit is 25, but
not very many people obey that speed limit. Already you have the construction
traffic coming into Sky Mesa. So, it is concerning that they are thinking about
using that road for more construction. I have a concerned about where the road
is coming in and --
De Weerd: Can you try to summarize? The -- the time is up.
Webb: Okay.
De Weerd: If you can --
Webb: One other concern on Lake Hazel where the road comes in , there is a hill
right there and I turn off of Ranch Road quite a bit and I'm taking my life into my
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hands and I just think that there are some concerns about the hilly area there and
the development coming in there and that's it.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mrs. Webb. Any questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Betty Haylor signed up against, does not wish to testify. Rod Nettinger
signed up against, does not wish to testify. Carolyn Jennings signed up against,
does not wish to testify. Kent Jennings signed up against, does not wish to
testify. Chelsea Black signed up against, does not wish to testify. Taylor Black
signed up against, does not wish to testify. Scott Moore signed up against and
does wish to testify. Don Cantrell signed up against and does wish to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for
the record. Don Cantrell. I'm at 3000 East Lake Hazel.
De Weerd: Thank you, Don.
Cantrell: What I'm basically concerned about is that I own the property to the
east of the subdivision being proposed and at this time the last hearing they
basically stated there is not going to be any fencing along the property there. To
the east there, obviously, it's agriculture and I have got cattle on that. Over the
years -- especially -- once again I'm saying anything against Blackrock, but after
their development people like to walk on the north end of the canal there with
their dogs without their leashes. Over the years I have had their dogs come over
to the barbed wire and chase the cattle. I've had a particular cattle end up in the
barbed wire. By the time I get out there they are pretty much gone. We had an
incident a few years back where a 14 year old young lady had actually crawled
through the barbed wire to visit one of the two year old colts, which wasn't too
friendly. By the time I got down there on my ATV -- and I wasn't that far away,
the horse had turned, knocked her down, I yelled at her to stay down. The horse
turned, kicked, went over her and missed her. The liability of no fence with
horses, cattle -- I'm not worried about my cattle getting out, I'm worried about the
kids, the dogs, the liability that the DevCo, LLC, as well as myself eventually is
going to get -- something is going to happen. If I may, I will be happy to show
you a picture of an incident where some silly guy went down there in the round
pen with a horse. Within seconds -- if I may.
De Weerd: If you can give it to our clerk we can put it up on the screen.
Cantrell: So, once again, on that picture -- it happened within seconds. A piece
of paper went flying by, I was in the round corral there and, obviously -- I guess I
slightly got a -- I guess he's going to show it. Maybe. Well, there he is. Okay.
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That was a silly guy. A couple of busted arms. Wee k in the hospital. And it can
happen that quick. So, once again, my request that DevCo, LLC, place a six foot
solid fence along our property line. Once again my concern is eventually a little
kid, dog, someone is going to get hurt and so, anyway, that's my request for
DevCo, LLC.
De Weerd: Thank you, Don.
Cantrell: I thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Coles: Richard Clark signed up against, does not wish to testify. Robert and
Debbie Brady signed up against and do not wish to testify. Bonnie Stiles signed
up against and does not wish to testify. Lani Wageman signed up against and
does wish to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. Thank you for being here. If you will state your name
and address for the record.
Wageman: My name is Lani Wageman. I live in Blackrock at 5662 South
Graphite Way. I did submit a letter to the Council. I got a response from Mr.
Cavener who said I was offensive to him. I did not mean to be. I apologize. So,
I'm going to change from my format and just ad lib and tell you from my heart
what I feel. I'm not a public speaker. I'm not a politician. I don't know the ins
and outs of city council, but I do know that I represent a lot of the neighbors that I
have in Blackrock, Sky Mesa, Tuscany, Century Farm -- we have been in contact
with a lot of people and my neighbors aren't all public speakers , but you can see
by the headcount that they want someone to speak for them on our quality of life
and the ruralness of our neighborhood and the open space and the -- just the feel
of the area that we want it to remain so and not to go to R-8 or R-15, which is
another neighborhood that's going to be going in. We just want you to, please,
keep us, the little people, in mind and try and represent us. The feeling that I
was trying to come across, Mr. Cavener, is that it seems like -- and it's just
maybe a feeling that the developers are more powerful than us homeowners and
tend to get their way, because they know the ins and outs and they know the
words to tell you, you know, their little trails and how beautiful it's going to be.
Well, you walk on the little trails that they are talking about you're going to get
goat heads up the kazoo and you're going to have to pull them out with pliers.
It's not a beautiful path like they are making it out to be. So, you will hear
snickers when -- when the developer comes up. But we just really would like you
to hear us from our heart and that we love our area and we want it to remain an
open, larger lot community. We are not against development, but there are all
kinds of concerns that other people will address or have addressed. The roads.
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Water. We have very poor water. Sewage. Safety of the children. It is steep
and as I think Ann said, come up and drive there. It's steep. It's -- it's dangerous
in the winter and with all the new traffic, with Century Hill and Sky Mesa, there --
there is a lot of traffic. So, if you just, please, consider where we are coming
from also. And, Mr. Cavener, I -- I really did not mean to offend you. I'm very
sorry. Thank you.
De Weerd: Mrs. Wageman?
Wageman: Yes.
De Weerd: You have a First Amendment right to say whatever you want. So, do
not apologize.
Wageman: I did not mean to offend, though. When you read my letter -- I
apologize.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Lani, would you expound on -- you said poor water. Is it quality?
Pressure?
Wageman: Yes. Through the last six months I would say -- six months? We
have had yellow to orange water and unless you have a whole home filter and/or
a softener, your water comes out orange and some of the neighbors who do not
have either of those -- there may be some that do -- have been on bottled water
for six months and that should not be happening in Meridian.
Bird: Amen.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Lani, can you expand on that a little bit more? I think that's the first
that we have heard being concerned with the development.
Wageman: No. We brought it up with Planning and Zoning and I noticed that
Josh didn't mention that.
Beach: Under the bus.
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De Weerd: Josh.
Wageman: We did bring it up at the P&Z, the brown water.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Wageman: At the Planning and Zoning.
Cavener: Is this happening -- you said frequently, reoccurring on a regular
basis?
Wageman: For the last six months all the time.
Cavener: Thank you.
Wageman: And the water company has been notified and nothing has
happened. They say they are flushing, but that happened this week, not six
months ago, and it's ongoing.
Cavener: Thank you. I appreciate that.
Wageman: Okay.
De Weerd: So, Kyle --
Bird: Yeah. That's just what I was going to say.
De Weerd: Would you care to comment about our water in that area?
Radek: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I -- I have not heard this recently from
the water operations guys, but I do know that we histor ically have had problems
in the Blackrock area and the biggest problem we have is that we don't have
enough customers up there to use up the water before it gets old. When it gets
old it -- we know that it -- iron and manganese can distill out of it. However, we
also have some -- we also have a -- Well 28 is our next treatment filter. Well 28
is the Blackrock well and we start -- we start design on that treatment filter next
year. We have been undergoing an effort for the last five years to improve wate r
quality all over the city and our -- our main problems are iron and manganese,
which results in the brown or the yellow water, which is -- after the water gets
chlorinated that iron and manganese starts settling out and if it doesn't get used
up fast enough it will -- it will settle out and end up being brown water and so it
has been a challenge with the amount of water lines we have and the few
amount of customers we have up there and we are working to -- to address it.
That's about all I can say about it now.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Bird, did you have something?
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Bird: No. That -- I was just going to get Kyle.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for Mrs. Wageman? Thank you.
Wageman: Can I add one more thing?
De Weerd: Yes.
Wageman: So, we know that East Ridge is going in and we -- we are not
opposed to it, but I think all of us in the surrounding area -- because we are
worried about the traffic and the safety concerns, all the -- not just homeowner
traffic, but construction traff ic and these homes take half a year to a year to build
each. So, it's just going to be massive amounts. If East Ridge could move
phase three on the rim to phase -- or phase three that's further back on Lake
Hazel to be phase one and bring in their water and sewage and go in through
Lake Hazel, it would sure make a lot of people happy if you don't -- if they don't
go through the neighborhood, through Cyanite and if they came in on Lake Hazel
-- if they came in on Lake Hazel they would have to run -- I think this -- you would
run your water and your sewage first if you came in through Lake Hazel?
De Weerd: We will ask him the question.
Wageman: Okay. Okay.
De Weerd: But thank you, that was a good question.
Wageman: Okay. Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Wageman.
Palmer: Not necessarily a question, just wanted to address a concern that you
had brought up about -- that you want to make sure that we -- that we hear you,
that we listen, and that it appears that we gi ve a heavier weight to the developer
and that's true. We do love to listen to you. We do want to hear everything -- I
mean we would be here until midnight and beyond if everybody wanted to testify.
It's not usually the case when -- when the clerk reads through that so many
people don't want to testify. We are happy to listen to all of you and everything
that they have to say, but the fact is we do give pretty heavy weight to the
developer, because he owns the land and so I just wanted the context to be there
that he owns the land and he wants to build something, he has the absolute right
to come and apply for it as he wants and if it makes sense and it's something that
fits with the plan, then, we will choose to move forward to it, but I don't want you
to feel like -- like you're not being heard. You're absolutely being heard and --
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and after we have heard everything everybody has to say, then, the developer is
going to come back up and, then, that's when we are going to ask him about the
things that have been brought up and he's going to bring them up, because he's
taking notes back there and we will see what we can do to improve it if it's
necessary or move forward as it is. But you are being heard and thank you for
coming and letting us hear what you have to say.
Wageman: Okay. So, one more thing then. When I read through the city
charter and it was talking about rural neighborhoods, as opposed to urban
neighborhoods, and it said that in keeping with rural neighborhoods there would
be more open space, larger lots, more greenery. Is that something that you
consider?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Looking at the -- the plan as it is it appears that that's what it is to me.
There is no apartments being proposed. There is -- it's --
Wageman: But it says wide open landscapes with no sense of enclosure. Views
to the horizon. Mostly unbroken by buildings. Very high open space ratios. Very
low building coverage. I mean it goes on and on and when we see plans like
East Ridge and we move there to be in a rural environment, it doesn't seem to
match the words out of the city paperwork. And that's why we moved there. We
are surrounded by cows and horses. We smell manure every day. I mean how
much more rural can you get?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: And I -- I grew up fairly close to that as well. I grew up in south Meridian
and -- in what's Sportsman's Point and just immediately to the south of it there
was fields, cows -- there still are, you know, even further south. Now I live in
what was those fields further south of Sportsman Point. Meridian is growing like
crazy. People want to live here and what may be rural in the moment that you
move there can't perpetually be that forever, unless you own the land and make
that decision for yourself.
Wageman: But it could maintain a rural feel if you make exceptions to the l ot
sizes.
De Weerd: I appreciate this discussion, but if maybe I can get this meeting back
and we appreciate your comments. Thank you.
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Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I recognize your desire to get this meeting back on track and I support
that. If I may a quick comment. In light of the previous testimony from Mrs.
Wageman she was correct, she sent an e-mail to all of us this afternoon in which
it was insinuated this board favors the decisions made in favor of developers
over our residents and I'd like a moment to comment on that for the public,
because it was brought up. I have too much respect for this body, both past and
present, that when this body's integrity is questioned without facts or figures,
then, I am offended by it and so while Mrs. Wageman does have the opportunity
to speak her mind and I'm so grateful that she did, I also felt that I had the
opportunity to reply to that -- not on behalf of this body, but as an individual who
serves and so while people may be offended that I found offensive what Mrs.
Wageman said, I encourage you to send me an e -mail and would be more than
happy to -- to meet with you face to face, much like I made the offer to meet with
Mrs. Wageman face to face.
De Weerd: But don't do it during an active application. Okay? So -- that two
way conversation doesn't belong during an active application.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, I didn't comment on the application.
De Weerd: Okay. Well --
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I got to turn this on. I'd like to make a brief comment as well. With
regards to perspectives on -- on weighing things in favor of a development or
developer or not, I think Councilman Palmer used the word we -- he might have
meant me, himself. We might have different views on that point. If it's just a
matter of developing private property, that may be the case. A developer has the
right to do it and let them go forward. But it's a little different -- and from my
perspective additional consideration when it's a private property right to develop it
and to do so by bringing it into the City of Meridian and that's a trade -off and
there is lots of conditions and all the good developers know that, that they are not
entitled to any more benefit of the doubt, it's just a fair shake and fair application
of our existing plan and code, listening to the public testimony, some applications
can meet that bar and are worthy of joining the city and the trade -off and
obligations that come with it. So, I don't think a private developer gets any
benefit of the doubt by any stretch at any stage of the game and I think all of the
good developers that come to our community recognize that. They don't ask for
a benefit of a doubt, they expect to be held to objective, fair s tandards, to apply
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our code fairly and to listen to the public and take their concerns into
consideration and to allow this process to happen, so I just thought it was worthy
of sharing that. There is a lot of people here who want to feel comfortable tha t
the process is fairly applied in every situation, so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mrs. Wagner --
De Weerd: Wageman.
Bird: Wageman. I want to assure you that the 20 years I have sat up here and
the 16 years that Mayor Tammy has sat here, every public testimony we listen to
and take into consideration. You're just not up here talking to a wall. And the
developers have to stay to their standards or we don't accept that either. We
have turned down developers and stuff. So, don't ever not get up and testify. If
you have got something to say, get up and say it. We can't -- or shouldn't reply
on active applications like this one as a n individual, but, please, if you got
something to say get up and testify and I assure you that two of us up here
listens to everything that's said and I'm sure all seven of us do.
De Weerd: I think they do. Okay. Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Kayleen Baker signed up against and does
not wish to testify. Steve Baker signed up against and does not wish to testify.
Mary Affleck signed up against and does wish to testify.
Affeck: Hi. My name is Mary Affleck. I live on 6591 South Raap Ranch Lane
and it's, actually, in the undeveloped area, which I just laugh about. It's 11 acres
just directly south. So, you're right across Lake Hazel Road. We didn't receive
any notification or anything of a subdivision going in. But what I want ed to tell
you is that there are a lot of people here that are not speaking and the thing that I
know about them is this is a high caliber audience. You have doctors and
lawyers and business owners, people who care about their community. But they
are also very savvy and very smart and that is why they are not testifying or
standing up and saying anything, because they know that when you own the land
you can do with it what you want. We are retired Air Force. We have been out of
Idaho for 24 years. Just retired and came back home. This is home. Not
California. We didn't want to go to California and that is why we came to Idaho,
because we love it. It's home. I could not understand you, Mr. Palmer, when you
said you live in what used to be farms. That's why we love Idaho. That's why we
are here. We want to have some land. We want to live like a family. We do not
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want to live in California again. We lived in cities. This is -- we lived in different
countries. We lived in England. They have laws there where the rural country,
you cannot touch that. They -- they don't build on it. It's sacred. And we feel the
same way about Meridian. I mean it is a growing community. I don't know what
your plan is for Meridian. Maybe we just need to move to Kuna. Our back lot of
our -- our land is actually in Kuna Irrigation District and maybe that's what we
need to do. But I love Meridian. I lived here when I was a little girl and I just
think that it's important that there be a buffer -- there be somewhere that is still
country, that it's not all city, and, I don't know, maybe you love that, but I came
home to the country and maybe we will just have to move . We actually moved
last year from Victory and Ten Mile to Lake Hazel and Eagle, because we are
now on 11 acres and we are buying the five acres that's right in front of us, but
maybe we just need to move to Kuna. I don't know. Anyway, just wanted you to
know I love Idaho and I love where I live and it's rural. They are not showing you
the land that is south of that. It's all country. It's all farmland. And the bluff that
they are going to build on is beautiful and we would never stop them from that.
That's their right. They bought that land. But we think it needs to be at least on
an acre. It's so hard to find an acre. If you could do it on five acres -- we couldn't
even find that. That's why we bought a house that was two years old and already
built. But that's all I have to say. Does anyone have any questions for me?
De Weerd: Thank you for your testimony.
Coles: Brian Affleck signed up against and does not wish to testify. Dawn
Murphy signed up against and does wish to testify.
Murphy: Can you hear me okay?
De Weerd: Yes, we can.
Murphy: Thank you so much. Thank you, Mayor and City Council. I really
appreciate your time listening to all of us and we are trying to --
De Weerd: If you can state your name and address.
Murphy: Oh. Dawn Murphy.
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Murphy: Dawn Murphy and I live at 2495 East Cyanite Drive. I'm in Blackrock.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Murphy: Just a couple points and wanted to maybe give you some statements
that DevCo owns that property. Just ask them if they own that property. I think
it's optioned. So, I think that we have a lot of time to get this right. It's not
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actually their property yet. You all took a tour of my dirty bathtub, unfortunately.
I was the one that called the city about that water. I also called DEQ. DEQ also
called the city and we were told you guys have a great treatment process, better
than any of the others in Idaho, from the DEQ, which is awesome, but at the
same time there is way too much sediment in that water for that subdivision and
it's not getting any better, it's getting worse, and we have been on the bottled
water for six months, so --
De Weerd: I think you need to use more water. That's what I heard.
Murphy: You know, we were told to run the cold water -- you know how much
that would cost to run the cold water to flush out? I know when our subdivision
was built there were some questions of did it have enough lift, all of that stuff. I
really think that needs to be considered when adding new homes. I know when
Mr. Conger was in front of Planning and Zoning they asked him about the water,
as if he was a water expert. He's not a water expert. He said adding more
homes is going to make that better. He's not a water expert. The other part of it
is that he was also asked about the traffic study and he was asked if the Sky
Mesa new development was considered in that traffic study. Again, he was
being used as a reference for facts that weren't factual. So, we would really like
the water to be considered before that subdivision goes in. The sewer, the
traffic, and I do have a slide presentation, if we could show that.
De Weerd: You have less than 50 seconds left, so --
Murphy: I want to talk specifically about the danger on the road and -- I have
been talking waiting for my slides to come up. So, we are just waiting for the
slides to come up. Okay. So, this is -- my home is -- I don't know if you can see
-- right here. This is my home. This is Cyanite. This is coming -- Taconic from --
from Eagle Road. This is all the way up -- I mean fire, emergency, everything
has to come up this road. There is a steep grade right here, which you can't see.
I'm absolutely sure ACHD did not consider the elevation and the grade coming in.
You would have to come up another grade right here. This is our d riveway. This
is a blind curve here and this is us just trying to back in our -- the cutest camper
in Idaho. But even to pull out of our driveway we have to take up this whole road.
You can see it's -- it's a steep elevation down. People already drive this 30 miles
an hour and it's a dead-end. They come screeching around that corner. The
trash truck just came right up and almost hit the front of my truck , screeching
around that corner this morning. So, it's a blind curve. Just to use this we have
to take up the road and we are not that big, really. I mean that's only a 14 foot
camper. So, to try to get up and into this driveway and get in and out of the
driveway -- not to mention if there is anybody parked on the street, either side,
there is no way to really get in and out of there. So, you add all of Mr. Conger's
traffic that he's promising us to come through there, there is really no reason to
bring all of that traffic through this subdivision , this stub, to build 30 some homes
up there. He's got a small street to Lake Hazel. It's five homes deep. That could
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easily bring his traffic into that subdivision . I'm not even sure this is really
recommended for in and out access anyway. Maybe as a fire road -- I don't
know. But what I'm saying is I don't believe ACHD took this under consideration
and so we are just asking for a number of things here to be pushed back. The
plat and definitely the -- the study with ACHD and since it was already mentioned
we would also ask for the water to be looked at. Any questions?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none. Thank you.
Coles: Stroo signed up against and does wish to testify.
Stroo: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Stroo: Jim Stroo. 2495 East Cyanite. And, Josh, if I could have the slides, too,
please. Madam Mayor, Council Members, thank you for hearing my testimony
tonight. A lot of the testimony you have heard is -- is in my presentation today,
so I won't take a whole lot of your time. But someone noticed -- I think Council
Member Milam mentioned about the lack of toy lots, playgrounds, things like that.
The developer certainly is taking a minimalist approach meeting the bare
minimums. Example is Mesa -- Sky Mesa has pocket areas, they have a toy lot.
They have swimming pools. A lot of amenities. The developer really has not
taken a whole lot into consideration. We talk about the riparian. We have
walked that. It is a ditch. It is no -- there is no water that runs through it. The
only water it gets is when the snow melts. Otherwise, it is a rocky ditch. And to
say this is a beautiful area, it isn't. The only reason why they are using that is to
account for the 20 percent green space. The Council, as they are evaluating
this, has to look at not only quantity, but the quality of green space. What will this
really be used for? It's out in a funny area. The developer also mentioned they
are not going to develop the landscape, they are going to leave it as a natural
Idaho landscape and I think it was mentioned goat heads , cheat grass, beautiful.
One of the other pieces I want to stress is the connection to Lake Hazel, running
all of the construction traffic through Cyanite until 67 home sites, that's the
phases that need to be completed before the developer will connect to Lake
Hazel. Why? Nobody asked them in Planning and Zoning why it would take so
long to connect to Lake Hazel. Talk about the green space. High-density
homes. They are building high-density homes. Some lots are only 60 foot wide.
Some are 6,600 square feet. Ten of the largest homes were deemed
unbuildable by Planning and Zoning staff . You saw how there was a correction.
They reduced it to three of those lots to one, but the other lots that have no
access are currently not buildable, yet they are all coming into the estimate or the
calculation -- density calculation for the -- getting to the 2.8 and if -- Mr. Conger
stressed twice that there are only 2.8 homes per acre, then, why do we need an
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R-8 zoning. Why wouldn't R-4 do? So, I would ask you to ask Mr. Conger why
R-4 wouldn't be suitable, since he stresses there is only 2.8 homes per acre.
De Weerd: Sir, I’m sorry, you're going to have to summarize.
Stroo: All right. In summarizing. So, for the community this is high density and I
really want the Council to take a look, consider what this site will look like today,
five years, 20 years. Is this something that people would come to Meridian and
in a high-density neighborhood. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you very much.
Coles: Anna Koga signed up against and does not wish to testify. Pete Baranko
signed up against, does not wish to testify. Terra Inman signed up against, does
not wish to testify. Lance Baumgartner signed up against and does wish to
testify.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Baumgartner: Good evening.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Baumgartner: Hello. I'm Lance Baumgartner and I live at 2310 East Lake Hazel
Road on the ten acre home to the west of the proposed development . Also in
that considered undeveloped area as denoted by Mr. Conger. I am also the
youth transportation commissioner for the City of Meridian and as a
commissioner I feel it is my responsibility to point out a misrepresentation made
by the developer Mr. Conger of ACHD's plans for Lake Hazel Road and I believe
I have a PowerPoint that I'm also kind of waiting for. Sorry. Oh, this is it. Yes.
Sorry. Can you start it from the beginning? Sorry. I apologize as we get this
started.
De Weerd: You're good.
Bird: You're doing great.
Baumgartner: Thank you. As I said, Mr. Conger has misrepresented ACHD's
plan for Lake Hazel Road. On three occasions and, actually, it's now four,
because he spoke tonight, he has made this misrepresentation. At the
neighborhood meeting, the city's Planning and Zoning Commission meeting on
March 2nd, and most recently last Friday in a letter written to City Council Mr.
Conger has mischaracterized the plan for Lake Hazel Road. In this letter he
stated -- and I quote -- and as you can see -- as you recall, Lake Hazel Road is
planned as a seven Lane arterial, a major east-west transportation corridor. This
argument has been used to justify that the area of development will become
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undesirable and as such warrants an R-8 zoning approval from the city.
However, in a letter written by ACHD to the developer, the Capital Improvement
Plan for the years 2016 to 2035 clearly states that Lake Hazel Road will remain a
two lane road west of Cloverdale Road until the comprehensive years of 2026
and 2030 and at which time Lake Hazel from Eagle to Locust Grove Road will
become a three lane road and that is what it will remain. Mr. Conger uses the
seven lane road argument as justification for his request for an R-8 zoning. As
he has mislead the community and the city on multiple occasions I humbly ask
you to reject this proposal and retain the R-2 zoning, which is appropriate and
consistent with the established estate homes in this portion of the community.
We have a large volume of people here tonight that have said this and repeatedly
asked that the City Council consider that you have the responsibility to also
protect existing residents from Vantage Point to the east and to Bianno in the
west off of Locust Grove. We have this tremendous community support for this
request to retain R-2 zoning, to preserve the invaluable piece of property that this
is. It can attract higher quality homes on larger lots as represented by most
recently the Afflecks who have joined our community. We can attract larger
homes on larger lots and that's what we are asking you to do. Please protect the
R-2 zoning and consider that he's misrepresented the community on several
occasions, as well as yourselves this evening. Thank you. Are there any
questions?
De Weerd: Thank you, Lance. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none. Great presentation.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Lance, you said you got the ten acres right next to it?
Baumgartner: Correct.
Little Roberts: Are you concerned about fencing? We had heard that earlier.
Baumgartner: For our particular area that is a concern. On three separate
occasions -- not our own horses, but other horses have intruded on our field,
which is on the most closely associated portion of the property to this
development. I would say something that is highly important and as the neighbor
has pointed out, he has a more strategic interest in that -- in that it's an actual
pasture. Our own field is alfalfa and it will remain that way for the next hundred
years as I plan to live there after my parents live there. It is a concern and I think
Mr. Conger and I hope the City Council will respect that as I live on a 435,660
square foot lot there is no adequate transition to any of the proposed 16 homes
that will be adjacent to our property and that goes right along with fencing. We
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will be looking immediately to these homes that are 12,000 square feet. I don't
see how that's transitional between the 436,660 square feet and I hope you will
see that and I don't really -- and to get back to fencing, I really don't want to look
at an ugly fence, but that's what we are being asked to do, so -- are there any
other questions? I'd be happy to answer some unrelated transportation as well.
De Weerd: Thank you, Lance.
Baumgartner: Thank you. Have a good evening. Oh. And I will submit my
comments to the clerk. I hope you will understand that they say three instead of
four, as Mr. Conger has added another time of misrepresenting, so --
De Weerd: Now, please. I'm sorry. We get excited about testimony, too, but I'd
ask you not to do that.
Coles: Chris Rude signed up against and does not wish to testify. Lindy Hilton
signed up against and does not wish to testify. Pat Looney signed up against
and does not wish to testify. Looney. Excuse me. Cliff Looney signed up
against and does not wish to testify. James Sievers assigned up against and
does not wish to testify. Bob Sievers signed up against and does not wish to
testify. Ted Bowman signed up against and does wish to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: Cheyenne Quilter signed up against and does wish to testify.
De Weerd: Unfortunately we don't donate time. Thank you, Lance. It was a nice
try.
Coles: Tiffany Klinger signed up against and does not wish to testify. Wendy
Everett signed up against and does not wish to testify. Marsha Dennis signed up
against and does not wish to testify. Susan Landon signed up against and does
not wish to testify. Kathi Baumgartner signed up against and does wish to testify.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here and for loaning us your son on occasion.
K.Baumgartner: You're welcome.
Beach: This is the correct presentation, Kathi? Apologize, Mayor. I had several
without names, so I wanted to make sure I got the right one.
K.Baumgartner: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council --
De Weerd: If you can move the mic over. Yes. Thank you.
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K.Baumgartner: Madam Mayor, Members of City Council, my name is Kathi
Baumgartner and live at 2310 East Lake Hazel Road on the ten acres
immediately adjacent to the west boundary of the proposed development.
De Weerd: Thank you.
K.Baumgartner: I'm honored to speak with you tonight on behalf of my family,
but also on behalf of several of the neighbors -- and I don't know -- my
understanding was homeowners associations were allowed to have ten to 15
minutes and we don't have a homeowners association out in our rural part of the
community, but we do have an association of neighbors and they have asked me
to speak on their behalf as well. I don't know if -- if -- my understanding that
somebody would have ten to 15 minutes as a result of that; is that correct?
De Weerd: HOA is -- does -- is allowed to have ten minutes. Council?
Cavener: I support it.
Bird: That's fair.
De Weerd: Okay.
K.Baumgartner: Thank you. I appreciate that concession. Again, I would like to
first of all state that we are not opposed to development on this property. We
always anticipated that someday that would happen and we totally un derstand
and respect the ownership of the property. However, we do not believe it's
consistent with the way the Comprehensive Plan calls out for and there is a
number of ways and I will get into that in just a moment. It would be easy for me
to stand up here tonight and represent my own personal interest, protect my
view, protect my property values, but -- and especially since Mr. Conger
completely I feel disregards the value of our property and says it's undeveloped
and that it's, you know, simply a ten acre parcel that some day should have 15
homes surrounding my estate home -- per acre I should say. But irregardless of
that, I'm speaking on behalf of -- of neighbors and as I have researched and
started getting into this process of understanding City Council, understanding the
Comprehensive Plan, I realized that this issue before the City Council tonight is
much bigger than me, it's much bigger than my personal agenda and it's a critical
decision for you guys. This city is facing a critical decision tonight, a decision
that affects the entire south Meridian community. It affects -- in fact, it affects
the long-term -- I believe the long-term strength of Meridian as a whole. The
south rim is a tremendous asset to the city. I grew up here. I lived on this rim
looking over the valley since I was in grade school and was a really long time
ago. This south rim offers spectacular views of the valley and the mountains and
it's far superior to anything that Eagle or Boise has to offer. The rim draws
people to Meridian and we need your help tonight to ensure that this treasure is
fully utilized in a way that the city can maximize this asset for generations to
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come. I humbly stand before you tonight representing the interests of over 171
petitions that are represented in your Council packets tonight. We stand together
as homeowners of south Meridian not opposed to this development -- or not
opposed to development on this property, but opposed to an R-8 zoning that
doesn't make sense. R-8 zoning allows this developer to place homes on 6,000
square feet, 7,000 square feet, 8,000 square feet in an area that is surrounded
by half acre homes, one acre homes, two acre homes, five acre homes. I mean
we have to be careful not to be deceived by t he applicants use of density
calculations. You will notice that the -- in the far corner of his -- in the far corner
that's undeveloped he has extraordinary large lots and I talked to Josh about this,
why do we allow him to use those extraordinary large l ots in a calculation of
density that's not even going to be developed? He's using that to I believe
mislead the community and the Council into believing that he has an R-4 -- an
R-2 density or an R-3 density, which is -- it is not appropriate. So, I think it's
important to consider lot sizes, because you're talking about homes on six,
seven, eight, nine thousand square feet sitting next to 25,000 square foot lot s on
average in Blackrock. Two acres to the east and ten acres to the west. I'd like to
refer back to the Comprehensive Plan, because I know -- oh. So, here is the feel
of what is to the east of this community, that he's proposing to have six, seven,
eight thousand acre -- six to seven thousand square foot lots on. These are the
type of homes that are out there and this is the proposal that he's putting before
the City Council and saying that this is a 2.8 homes per acre. That's because
down in this section -- I don't know if I can -- down in this section as I was
referring, these are extraordinarily large lots and they are not developable. He's
misleading the Council. These now he has listed as one lot, because it's
undevelopable. He can't get access to it. It's sitting next to the irrigation ditch
that -- that runs through there and it's extraordinarily steep and he doesn't want
to develop it, because it would be too costly to tile that -- that irrigation ditch
runoff and to develop it. That's -- let's just be truthful about what's going on there
and it's incredibly important and I know it's so difficult to see this. This represents
the ridge all along here, this black line. This is -- right here. This land is so
steep. That's not an open area. Look at these homes. They have no open area.
All the open area that he refers to is simply the slope that's -- that's not even
visible to all of the properties or all the homes that he's developing on this site.
So, it's important to look at lot -- lot sizes and the transition from adjacent homes.
According to the Comprehensive Plan urban density in subdivisions that abut
approximately -- are proximal to the low density must have transitional densities
with more comparable lots. The city acknowledges that comparable lots is the
important criteria here. Not just absolutely density numbers. It also -- the
Comprehensive Plan also requires and values -- says that it's important to
consider in zoning the transition from existing homes to important -- to -- I'm sorry
-- transition to existing home and this -- this -- this type of low density that's out
here, this is what's currently scheduled on two -thirds of the property is a low
density and this right out of the Comprehensive Plan. This kind of development
makes sense, especially when you are next to Blackrock. It's comparable. But
this development is not. Mr. Conger's development is -- it's crowding 118 home
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-- or a 108 homes on approximately 333 acres, while the adjacent neighbors
have 44 acres -- 41 acres with 44 homes. Again, this development doesn't make
sense for our community. Allowing this R-8 zoning will cause -- cause financial
harm to the adjacent homeowners and the south Meridian values as a home -- as
a whole. P&Z challenged me to get out and talk to my neighbors and I have
done that. In your Council packet you have a 771 petition signed by voters,
homeowners, and concerned citizens. Additionally, I have 62 petitions here
tonight to add to that. We have -- and I'd like to put that in the public record
afterwards. All of those people are adamantly opposed to the s ubdivision. They
are opposed to the -- and they are urging you, City Council Members and Madam
Mayor, to -- to uphold the R-2 plan -- the R-2 zoning for this project and so that it
doesn't negatively impact their values. The overwhelming consensus when I
spoke to neighbors is that this type of subdivision on this property doesn't make
sense and I will tell you, people down in -- in -- in Century Farm are sitting on, I
believe, an R-8 spaced subdivision. They don't want this subdivision and the
reason is because they know that putting an R-8 subdivision on this rim when
you have all the precedence of having extraordinarily gorgeous, beautiful homes
on half acre, one acre, two acre lots and five acres up to the west on the Bianno
Subdivision, they know that if -- they expected when they bought their homes on
-- down in Century Farm that this would be consistently developed in a way that
makes sense and that additional -- that the homes on the rim would be consistent
across that rim and that they would be nice, that would attract large homes that
would drive their property values up. So, not only are you hurting me and my
immediately adjacent neighbors by putting in a subdivision that's not consistent
with the established neighborhood, you're harming the entire southern Meridian
community and devaluing those homes. I have a hundred percent of the people
along Lake Hazel within a mile of this subdivision that are opposed. I have a
hundred percent of the people in Vantage Point that are opposed to this. A
hundred percent of the Bianno Subdivision on Locust Grove are opposed to this.
A hundred percent of the people to the west of Locust Grove on the -- on the rim
are opposed this and we are urging you to deny this proposal and utilize the rim
property -- property by providing consistency with existing homes to maximize
the return for the city and all homeowners in the south -- in south Meridian by
requiring half acre lots and one acre lots on this property, so that their property
values are increased, not decreased. We need a variety of homes available out
here, according to the -- the Comprehensive Plan a variety of -- and balance of
land uses is important and calculating the actual percentage of the land use on
an annual basis is important. Maintaining integrity of neighborhoods is important
and, again, lot sizes in -- in evaluating this provision in the Comprehensive Plan,
lot sizes are critical. Offering diversity of home types, that's also, according to
the Comprehensive Plan it's important and it maintains its strength in our
community and there is a -- it requires in a Comprehensive Plan an annual
review and monitoring of permits -- permit activities to ensure the diversity in our
community and I asked ACHD for that report, that annual report, and they were
not able to provide me with that. They said they don't calculate that. And it's
important I think for this Council to -- to recognize that the number of homes in an
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R-2 subdivision are not being offered. We have heard it already. They are not
being offered to the community and there is a demand for it, a great demand, and
this property makes sense. We need to maximize this rim property --
De Weerd: Kathy, you do need to summarize.
K.Baumgartner: Okay. I will. I'm sorry. There are numerous provisions in the
Comprehensive Plan that give you the basis for denying this and I have just
touched on a few of them and it's important that the Council recognize that this
Comprehensive Plan provides you with the base to deny this and to require that
any -- any adjustments to this be -- be consistent with the existing
neighborhoods. This -- this rim is a tremendous asset and we are counting on
you our elected officials, Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, to fully
utilize this asset for the strength and benefit of the community for the long run .
Upholding an R-2 designation is critical to -- to enabling the city to maximize the
value of this rim. This is a pivotal decision and we are trusting that the 248
people that have signed petitions in opposition of this will -- you will listen to us.
The north rim, you guys experienced that same explosive growth on the north rim
and, coincidentally, I believe that the Comprehensive Plan was being developed
at that time or being revised at that time and -- and City Council recognized those
residents. They stood up and they said protect that rim. It's too valuable. It's too
valuable to the city. Don't deny the opportunity. And as such you guys have, you
have acknowledged that and we are asking that you acknowledge the value of
the south rim as well. Reserve the south rim for large lots that are half acre to
one acre, to drive all the property values up in south Meridian. It benefits us all
and we appreciate your time. I know I talk too fast and there is so many things in
this Comprehensive Plan that provide a basis for your denial of this application. I
welcome any questions you might have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Thank you.
K.Baumgartner: I appreciate your thoughtful consideration of this very critical
issue that's facing the city. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Coles: David Blumberg signed up against, does not wish to testify. Bradley
Beaufort signed up against and does not wish to testify.
De Weerd: Absolutely. You can change your mind. If you will, please, state
your name and address for the record.
Beaufort: I'm Brad Beaufort. I live at 5338 South Tindaris Place, Meridian,
Idaho. 83642. Madam Mayor and Councilmen, I want to just offer my opinion. I
live in Century Farms and since I have come here I at least wanted you to know
that I do not have as big a dog in this fight, but I do oppose the consideration of
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zoning this as R-8. I am here on the principle of being here for my friends and it's
-- Blackrock is a beautiful community and I think you would be doing a very big
disservice if you allow this to happen to that area right next to Blackrock. Thank
you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, at this time I'm going to call a ten minute break.
I don't want to be disrespectful and get up and leave during testimony and I have
to take a break. So, since I run the meeting I can actually do that. We have
been sitting up here for three and a half hours and so we will reconvene in ten
minutes.
(Recess: 9:24 p.m. to 9:35 p.m.)
De Weerd: It looks like I was not the only one that needed a break . Thank you.
We will start this up again and I will ask the clerk to co ntinue to read. If your
name is not on there and you want to provide testimony at the end of the -- the
sign-up list we will ask for any additional testimony. So, your voice will be heard.
Mr. Clerk.
Coles: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Thomas and Sandy Singletary signed up
against and do not wish to testify. Andy Prescott. Sorry if I mispronounced your
first name. But Prescott signed up against and does not wish to testify. Susan
Karnes signed up against and does wish to testify.
Karnes: Good evening.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Karnes: My name is Susan Karnes. I live at 5556 South Graphite Way in the
Blackrock Subdivision and I'm coming to you this evening with a kind of
interesting and unique backstory that I think gives me a unique perspective on
this situation. First of all, we just last August moved from Eagle to Meridian and I
feel like a salmon swimming upstream by doing that. But I can tell you that we
spent three years on a search for property with a view. We moved to Idaho five
years ago after 30 years in Texas and not to offend anyone, but life is too short to
live in Texas if you're considering moving there . We looked in -- everywhere in
the Treasure Valley. We looked on Shaw Mountain, Quail Ridge, Harris Ranch,
Spurwing and throughout Eagle. We went down everywhere we could. We
either had roads like this that we didn't want to manage in winter months or we
were looking at the valley and we wanted to look at the mountains . So, we
moved to Blackrock in August 2016 and I will ask Josh to put up image one so
you can see why -- not page one, image one. Sorry.
Beach: My apologies.
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Karnes: That's the view from my house. It's not our first house. After six cities
and four states and 13 homes we built it intending to be our last -- our dream
home. I am a former realtor. I have chaired a city's central business district
committee. I have served on the board of United Way. My husband's been a city
councilman. I have chaired a housing project using 900,000 dollars from HUD to
build in-fill housing for qualified low-income, first-time homeowners. I understand
the layers and the complicated variables. I understand you deal with
trigonometry as you build the vision for your city. But I can tell you as a former
realtor that Eagle shouldn't get all of the semi-rural neighborhoods and the
upscale homes. There is a sincere need and demand for people who want
privacy, who want space, who want elbow room. When we lived in Eagle we
actually had five neighbors bordering our fence and my husband said no. We
have a lot of privacy. We scrutinized the zoning maps, we scrutinized the
Comprehensive Plan. My husband's an attorney. We were satisfied that the
estate and rural flavor of the scenic south rim would be protected and enhanced
and based on that we sold our home in Eagle and invested in Meridian and I
have to tell you that this proposal appears to me to be cognitive dissonance -- I
mean just looking at the rendering of all these rooftops adjacent to what exists
there, it's certainly going to be very valuable for the developer and very desir able
for people that want to be near all of these valuable, desirable neighborhoods
nearby. But it --
De Weerd: I will ask you to summarize, please.
Karnes: Okay. Then, in summary, what I would like to say is the Comprehensive
Plan is clear on your key values. Manage growth to achieve high-quality
development and enhance Meridian's quality of life for all current and future
residents. Value communities and neighborhoods. Enhance the unique
characteristics of all communities. I think our community is well-established from
Locust Grove across Eagle, along Lake Hazel on the south rim and I feel that this
is disruption to the neighborhood's ide ntity and the reasons and rationale why
people choose to live there and I think for the diversity of housing that you offer in
this city that you should very much value having these low density
neighborhoods. Any questions for me?
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you very much.
Karnes: Thank you.
Coles: Charles Webb signed up against and does not wish to testify. Jenny
Foster signed up against and does not wish to testify. Judy Marble signed up
against and does not wish to testify. Cliff Hansen signed up against and does
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not wish to testify. John Ewing signed up against and does not wish to testify.
Sherrie Ewing signed up against and said maybe she wanted to testify. Gary
Andrew signed up against and does not wish to testify. Amy Anderson signed up
against and does not wish to testify. David Koga signed up as neutral and does
wish to testify.
De Weerd: Good evening. Please state your name and address for the record.
Koga: Yes, Madam Mayor, City Council Members, my name is David Koga,
2450 Cyanite Drive at Blackrock development.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Koga: I have a couple quick things to talk about. First of all I'd like to talk about
design transition on this development. As somebody mentioned earlier, some
important considerations for zoning is a transition from existing adjacent zoning.
As we all know this existing zoning here would be the county RUT. We are going
from -- with the Comprehensive Plan we have the low density and a medium
density developed residential there, so developers do have the right to jump up
to an R-4 and R-8 on those areas, but I think it's very critical that we still take an
account of this transition design to -- to the east of the development, because of
terrain, there is some natural larger lots on new designs, plus an open space, so
that does provide kind of a nice transition area. But to the west there is not very
much consideration or thought regard to transition to the west side. So, I think
that the developers should put a little bit of thought and regard to design ,
particularly to the developers that have the large parcel to the west there. In
regard to -- have another issue regard to safety and this is regards to traffic, not
so much because of home ownership traffic, but because of construction --
construction traffic. I want to state this area that the current Cyanite Drive south
is designated for development to the south for the future homeowners, but we
are also sub -- but we are substantially concerned that the developer stated that
they will not provide any additional roads to connection to Lake Hazel until after
phase one, which is currently planned for 37 lots. So, what this means is that all
-- and who knows how long it's going to take. We were talking at lot of lots at the
same time will be running concrete trucks, backhoe tracks, landscapers,
everybody coming through the same area on Cyanite. So, there is another factor
also that's related with this that if you look on the Public Works statement that
they have, it's also stated that no phases of the development can be served with
water service until it's connected to the future, since it's a six inch water main line
at Lake Hazel. So, it's -- from my understanding, this -- this water main line will
be installed on Lake Hazel in 2018 . At that time, then, the developer will extend
the water -- 12 inch water line from Cyanite where the stub out is there to the
south to Lake Hazel. When they bring this 12 inch water line it makes sense that
the developer would go ahead and construct the main entrance road East Ridge
Avenue into the site and this will provide all construction access to the
development, instead of having all the construction access coming from -- from
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the northern area on Cyanite. So, in closing I request for a site-specific condition
that states that East Ridge Estates be required to construct East Ridge Avenue
to the south connecting to Lake Hazel to provide access for al l construction
activities for all phases, including phase one and no construction would -- would
come through Cyanite Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Koga: Any questions?
De Weerd: Any questions? Thank you.
Koga: Thank you.
Coles: Madam Mayor, that concludes the names on the public sign-in sheets
that I have.
De Weerd: Thank you very much. Is there additional testimony desired? We
will go with the man in the front and, then, in the very back. Please --
Foster: Madam Mayor, City Council Members --
De Weerd: You already know.
Foster: My name is Tim Foster. 5805 South Graphite Way. The reason why I
came up tonight was the -- the information from Mr. Stroo, who is also in
Blackrock and a little bit deviated on the -- on the creek that's been talked about
spoken in this riparian area, that creek is actually an irrigation ditch. It the
Grimmet Lateral and part of the reason for this riparian area that they need is
because of the easements, they are not allowed to do anythi ng in the first place.
So, we need to make sure and call this what it is. It's not riparian. It's an
irrigation ditch and as such can't be used as anything else other than that. One
thing that wasn't talked about in a lot of other discussions here was the actual
landscaping itself. And I agree with -- that this landscaping is -- are minimum. I
mean it is just incredibly minimum and there is natural areas -- I mean we have
all -- you have seen what this area looks like. It is sagebrush. It is nastiness that
people are not going to walk through that. Their homeowners are not going to
walk through that. They are going to come through our area, which is great. We
don't have a problem with homeowners walking through our -- you know, our
paths that we have. But they need to step up this -- this landscaping. It's -- it is
just horrendous. And that's -- that's really all I have. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much.
Foster: You're welcome.
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De Weerd: Now I -- yeah. Thank you.
Tlucek: Hi. My name is Andrea Tlucek and I live at 5866 South Graphite Way. I
am a native of Idaho. I was born and raised in Emmett. Lived on East Main
Street. My husband was born and raised in Nampa and lived on a 40 acre farm.
We left Idaho in 1974 or '5 and returned four years ago. Our daughters live in
Meridian and so Meridian was the draw and my grandmother -- great
grandmother lived on Pine downtown when I was growing up, so I have some
roots here. We settled on Blackrock, because we could not find anything else
that was a compromise between East Main Street and the 40 acre farm and I -- I
hope that you have the foresight to realize that there is a need for property for
people who want acreages -- small acreages, half acres. We began this meeting
with a prayer and I can only trust and hope that you will listen to God and make a
wise decision and that you will hear us. I know that you couldn't possible have
read all of our letters, but I think that they -- they have addressed everything that
was in those letters and I thank you for hearing us.
De Weerd: Thank you. Sir, this person is before you. She sat in the back of the
room. It takes a while to get up here.
L.Koga: Hi. Madam Mayor, I'm Laurie Koga. I'm at 2450 East Cyanite Drive,
Meridian, in Blackrock Subdivision and I did need to make a comment. I wasn't
going to talk tonight. I'm not a public speaker. But when we had our HOA
meeting, we all discussed this at great length and we all came up with specific
reasons why we don't want the development . But we all decided, too, that we all
weren't going to get up here, every one of us, and say these things over and over
and over again to waste your time. And so the comment earlier tonight of why
there are so many no's on the thing of not getting up here talking is because we
didn't want to waste your time. But we all feel that way. We all feel about the
safety and the traffic and the number of homes and all that , we all feel the same.
But we decided to let a certain number of us get up and talk, so we wouldn't
waste your time. And so I just wanted to make that comment. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Sir. I sure hope you have something new for us.
Lewis: Oh, I do. Madam Mayor, Council Members, my name is Dr. Jim Lewis. I
live at 2154 Taconic Boulevard. I did the very same as the Karnes. My wife and
I studied this entire valley. I was the superintendent of Blaine county schools for
ten years, had the opportunity to drive down and decide exactly where quality
property would be. And, by the way, I have been to untold meetings about
beautiful pieces of property and who is going to develop it and why. So, I can
lend you two pieces of advice. Number one, very seldom do the developers own
the property. They usually have a position on the property, they and other
investors, and if you approve what they are proposing, then, the y own the
property, because their position depends on you approving that. So, I wanted to
make sure you hear that as a point of fact that I believe you need to check with
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these developers to see what positions they hold and if your decision is
dependent on whether they go forward with the purchase . But the other people
involved are the homeowners. The homeowners own their property. They own
the value of their property. And, Josh, if you would put up the picture of the
development next to Blackrock and I would like the City Council Members and all
the people in the room to imagine what that's going to do to property values with
that particular development next door and the reason is -- it's not just Blackrock.
If you will start on Meridian Road where the long pine trees are there, there is a
development of about 11 homes there and follow that ridge all the way to
Vantage Point, there is nothing comparable to that development . It's all
comparable to Blackrock. And the reason -- I said I have seen arguments over
beautiful pieces of property -- you do have a couple of pieces in Meridian. First
of all, you have a coveted community. Twenty years from now you will have a
tough time finding land. You will not have a tough time finding developers. So,
don't give it away cheap. Understand that. I learned that where I came from.
Second thing is two beautiful pieces of parcels that you do have are the two
ridges and in your comp plan you made provisions for one of them. Residents
used north -- uses north of Chinden Boulevard and within one quarter mile or
less of the rim should have lot sizes ranging from one half to one acre ensuring
compatibility with the Spurwing Country Club to the east. So, that's in your comp
plan. I saw that before we purchased. It's important that you honor that in a
similar property on this east side. So, with that I want to continue that -- chapter
two of your comp plan talks about the community design goals and objectives.
Focus on protecting and improving the unique elements of the natural and built
environment. Those ridges are unique elements. You are making a decision
that's going to affect this community for a lot of years. Those are unique
elements and it's in your comp plan . To be specific 2.0 -- 1.00 says to sustain,
enhance, promote and protect those elements that contribute to the livability and
the high quality of life for all Meridian residents. So, with that I just simply say
that there has been a lot said here tonight and I wouldn't be a superintendent of
schools if I didn't address the concern about the safety of --
De Weerd: But you do have to summarize.
Lewis: Okay. The safety of using Taconic Boulevard to come in there . If you
look at the picture, you will see that the walking path through the development is
where all the children gather right at the corner of Taconic and Cyanite. It's built
that way. We have children -- two different groups, middle schoolers and
elementaries, loading in the morning and in the afternoon and they will have
cement trucks, lumber trucks and construction rigs running in and out of there
and I would suggest to you, if you look at the plan on the wall up there, you will
also find that the most expensive properties come in on Cyanite. Developers like
to build and sell those most expensive properties first, because it pays off their
mortgage. Understand that. There is a reason for that. It isn't just because of
the reasons this developer has given you. So, the last thing I want to say is we
have a couple of facts that our group have discovered by talking to Ryan Head,
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who is the head of -- or planning -- ACHD. He says, number one, the widening of
Eagle Road from Lake Hazel to Amity is not on the five year plan and it probably
will be more like ten to 15 years. Well, your comp plan says that -- that the
building and the traffic will be planned together so that it's comparable, so we
don't have roads that people just cannot get to town on . He also said the
widening of the --
De Weerd: Sir?
Lewis: I'm sorry.
De Weerd: That doesn't sound like a summary.
Lewis: Okay.
De Weerd: And I know you're an educator. Kind of like a politician. Right?
Lewis: I will take the hammer, because I gave a few to the developer and it's
status quo. The main -- most important thing is that the transportation
development is not keeping up with the lot development on the west side of town.
It's important that you realize that, because you're going to have traffic problems
there just like you have water and sewer problems already. Please listen to the
people who have spoken tonight. They are very earnest and they do feel very
strongly about this. And I -- my wife and I feel just as strong. Thank you for --
De Weerd: Thank you. Thank you for hanging with us tonight. If you will state
your name and address for the record.
Alexander: I know it's late. I did not -- oh. Linda Alexander and I live on 1650
Suzan Drive, which is on the corner of Locust Grove and Suzan and I'm not from
Idaho. Moved here from Montana 21 years ago and what struck me about Idaho
is that it was more open. Not than Montana, but a lot of other places that I have
lived. I'm an Air Force brat, so I lived all over the place. And I spent a lot of
years in Yosemite National Park, which is -- can't even compare. But the rim --
south rim was something my husband and I searched for for a long time. We
looked and looked for one acre lots for over two years and it was difficult to find.
We didn't want to be in Nampa, we didn't want to be in Caldwell, we wanted to be
in Meridian and it's -- we actually lived in Kuna for a while and just wasn't quite
the same. Meridian is Meridian. Meridian is a wonderful city. As Pastor Jordan
said, one of the best cities in the United States and we should keep it way. And
I'm not against high density housing. Certainly not against development. And I
don't think anybody else here is. Meridian has been impacted hugely. When we
moved here I think the population sign was 9,000. It's quite a bit different now.
We still need to retain the rural edge that we have had in the past. The south rim
has it so far. All the surrounding acreages are arranging as we have already
known, as has already been said, I'm not saying anything new, from a half acre
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to -- and mostly one to ten acres or more and we need to keep that. This -- this
subdivision, though beautifully laid out, it doesn't fit. It does not fit at all. And it's
going to not be positive for Meridian. So, I ask you, all of you, as we all do, to
send this back to Planning and Zoning and to bring it down to R-2, R-3, whatever
-- I don't even know what those are I do admit. But at the most two -- two lots per
acre. It's just -- it's just not right for the area. It's not considering the local
people. It's not deeply considering the whole city as a -- as a whole. Sorry I'm
redundant. I'm not used to speaking like this. But, please, consider this. You
have heard a lot of wonderful, wonderful testimonies about -- not about against
this development, but against this high-density development in this current
location. So, we thank you so much for listening to all of us and I -- maybe I'm
the last one, so go home and get some sleep. And thank you very, very much for
listening to me and giving us each a chance to speak out . Probably no
questions, because I didn't present anything new. So, thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any additional testimony? If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Clark: Richard Clark. 3332 East Rockhampton.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Clark: I'm in Century Farm. Meridian, Idaho. You know that. Anyway, I just
wanted to have a few minutes to take a difference stance that you haven't heard
from yet. And because I am in Century Farm I don't have a wonderful home
that's in a great area like they have -- most people that are here. But what I can
appreciate is the fact that I was in apartments like many of you likely started off
as. I live in, you know, what I consider a really nice neighborhood and it's taken
several years to get there and we felt we would leave it our dream home and so
the only thing I would ask you to consider is that if you live -- have lived in an
apartment you know it's really noisy and you know that there is -- you don't really
want to live that close if you really want something that's -- you consider your
dream home and I think that's more equivalent to what this neighborhood is
requesting. They are saying, well, let's go ahead and put in a lot smaller lots and
that's I would feel, I think, if I were one of those people and I would want that for
me, even though, like a said, I don't have near the luxury that that is, but I
appreciate what they have there and think that I would feel a rea l injustice if I had
the equivalent of apartments basically just on the other side of me. So, that's all I
wanted to say.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further testimony? Okay. At this point we will ask
the applicant to -- he has ten minute rebuttal to address the points that have
been raised during the testimony. And if you will restate your name for the
record.
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Conger: You bet. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Jim Conger, 4824
West Fairview. I'm going to jump in and hit a couple -- maybe what I will call the
quick items and, then, we will hit some of -- maybe a couple of the other items
right after that. So, thanks, Josh. Just real quick, some incorrect figures stated
out about our average square footage. These lots, you know, are -- they average
out at 9,500 square feet per lot. Again, the density at 2.8 homes per acre and
the low density for the record is -- is zero to three, of course. Mr. Cantrell, which
we -- we would definitely share his concern and we will get with him. He is our
eastern neighbor that has the livestock. We would address the fencing and get
with him and -- and make sure it works for both parties. But we couldn't agree
more with him in that concern and he will address it at a little bit later date, but
not too far down the road for sure, but could not agree more. Construction
access. I guess we can just commit to that right now. As far as the land
development access would be off Lake Hazel. We would not need any access ,
albeit, granted, all of the access through Blackrock is public roads. We would not
need to take those public roads for the development. Our builders are a different
story. A majority of vehicles in the building trades are not suited for off-road type
environments and they would need to take public roads to get to their job sites .
But from the development standpoint, which is all the pipe and all the gravel, we
have committed to that before and that is not an issue and that we would be
doing that either way. That's a smart -- smart way to go. Lake Hazel. I was
correct with the hundred foot right of way. I will stand corrected on the seven
lanes and what I am talking about is at full build out per ACHD and Meridian, all
the transportation guidelines, it is five lanes with two bike lanes on each side.
The full build out pavement width is 74 feet. Again, the hundred foot is the right
of way for that, which is all the way through our approval process of ACHD that is
what this plat has set aside to accommodate the five lane. But, make no
mistake, five versus anything -- it is five lanes. This is a major arterial that is an
east-west transportation corridor. By and such encompassed ACHD in the city
transportation plans. That is one of the driving factors of the city's
Comprehensive Plan that I have up on the screen. That does not change that.
Domestic water. I will -- again, probably not a water engineer. I would claim to
be a water expert at times, but we know Mr. Radek is a water expert. What --
what the issue with that -- and what we get all the time is -- there is two things.
You can take domestic water and you can take emergency services. There is 40
plus homes on a dead-end system. They don't have emergency secondary and
they don't have a water secondary to flush that water through . So, Kyle has
already indicated the water consumption -- there is not enough use. I'm not
looking to be the hero to bring homes to use it , I'm saying we will be the hero
when we connect to Lake Hazel, which connects to Eagle, and now you have a
circulation line. Not only is that safer for the fire and emergency responders for
getting there, but -- to have a water service, but it will also bring clean water. So,
we -- we end up saving -- selling that at some point. Why not start on Lake
Hazel? We have the water, we have the sewer, we have the power, we have the
phone, we have the gas, we have everything at the end of Cyanite. Cyanite is a
public right of way. It is not an emergency access. It is an ACHD public road
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that is designed for the transportation system out to Lake Hazel. It is signed like
all ACHD roadways that are stubbed for future use, it even says extended in the
future. We have to get the gas with Intermountain Gas . We have to get the
power. We have to get the Power from Idaho Power and we have to get the
sewer and water at that location. We have a 40 acre parcel. You, obviously,
can't develop all 40 at one time, you have to start with the services for phase
one. Our phase two doesn't even get to Lake Hazel, but we have already made
the commitment to do the spine road out to Lake Hazel and, of course, we want
and the neighbors want, but we want it just as much, the sidewalk to your new
park, which will be a great access and spectacular for all. R-8 zoning provides
the dimensional standards for the lots to allow the preservation of the open space
and the comp plan is really the driving force on densities. Yes, the zoning has an
-- in fact, the zoning code just changed to where R-8 doesn't mean eight and R-
40 doesn’t mean 40, it is all about the dimensional standards that are allowed in
that zone. The comp plan drives the density. The density for half or so of our
property is three units at a maximum. The balance of our property is the eight
units. Our whole blended out is 2.8, as a I said, but if you look at -- at just the
loss and we have done the count -- I don't know that it matters, but you can ask
me to show it if you want. In our low density area we are actually 2.3 units in our
-- what's the medium density that allows up to eight, we get up to 3.4. You take
our current land plan, only land plan, and do the lots per acre. So, we are at 2.3
in the low density area, we keep hearing high density. We keep hearing
apartments. We are low density in every sense of the word. Comp plan. I think
we will go back to that really quick. We are not going to go through the comp
plan, but we -- we keep hearing why not do bigger lots. Why not be different
transition lots. We have made our lots bigger. You heard Mr. Koga indicate that
we transitioned out of Blackrock fairly well and thought the transition to our west
boundary was not as good a transition as Blackrock, at least the way I
understood that conversation. If you look at our boundary -- on our west
boundary we immediately go to eight to 15 units on the medium high and you go
three to eight in the back, which backs up the Blackrock. So, when these
properties -- say our west boundary isn't the next one to develop, but it's the one
next to it, you are going to continue to have the land seller as a developer or the
developer that comes in is going to be in front of you with higher density as you
radiate to that neighborhood center or your neighborhood center is never going
to work. So, I suspect your staff and your -- to abide by this comp plan continue
to ratchet up the density to make your neighborhood center function , but you're
going to have the same -- you keep making -- if we go bigger lots -- and, again,
we are adjacent to an Ada County subdivision that, then, was an extended into
the city, so we understand Blackrock's a little bit of a -- future kind of inherited in
Ada County and subsequently became city. But you're going to have, as you
continue on, more density -- a little bit more density. I mean we are the transition
piece that will do nothing but continue to go up . It is important -- I guess very
important to note that smaller lots that are -- I guess if we are calling 9,500
square foot average lots smaller, the smaller lots don't always equate to cheaper
home prices. Our homes are higher amenity and -- and we already walked
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through values, not that -- I don't know if that matters. If the Council is worried
about impacting values I have lots of spreadsheets and charts of Blackrock's
sizes of homes and assessed values and could go into those. I am not going to
go into that unless someone feels it's necessary. But, again, you know, I think
Reflection Ridge, which actually has smaller lots than us, they have fifties and
some other type of lots in there, over the last 18 months they have sold 24
homes, with an average price of 450,000 dollars. So, high amenity homes -- and
I'm going to call it smaller lots. Again, these -- these aren't small lots, they are
smaller than the Ada County plat to the north of us -- don't equate to cheaper
homes. I -- I guess I'm -- I wasn't -- I created some slides and don't really want to
waste everybody's time, but I am a little surprised it -- all of the concern over our
amenity package with the neighbors, so I feel it's necessary to -- to -- to go into
that and understand that this is not a -- let's -- let's -- a part of the land or I have
got some irrigation ditch that's -- that's a bunch of junk that I'm just trying to put
off in one corner. So, our homeowners, again, are -- are a little more mature we
think with the price point and everything and the -- kind of homes that -- that
Tahoe is going to design. The passive space, walking paths and use, as I
indicated earlier, on this and I'm going to switch gears just so -- we have that mile
loop walking path that I talked about. Half of that path is in our riparian area.
And let's be clear on that riparian area and slope, no one -- I mean we have -- in
land that is not as valuable as this riparian area -- this riparian area isn't a joke.
We moved hundreds of thousands of yards of dirt in our time on certain projects.
We are not afraid to move dirt. We can grade this property totally different and
get rid of that. That is a 24 inch pipe to take care of this water amenity. I could
pipe the water amenity cheaper than I can put it back and make it a water
amenity. So, to be clear, for me to go grade this site down extremely flat, for me
to pipe the irrigation easement, which all of these easements are removable,
because they are user ditches and even if they weren't they are still movable if I
piped it. All of that is doable. The riparian area where we have minimal
landscape -- what we said is we are going to keep as much native as possible,
which is the sagebrushes, which we are fond of, and other things. We have to
run water in there to get that to grow. When you go into a natural area you end
up actually spending more money than if I would just make it turf -- and I am
wrapping now.
De Weerd: Did I have it on my face?
Conger: You had it on your face. But I want to be very clear, our view platform --
we have taken away 150,000 dollar view lots to put this center amenity in the
middle and it will be raised up, viewed, and the whole point was all our neighbors
-- the ones that have the view and the ones that don't have the view are able to
come to the center of our property and have a bistro type sitting area that has the
magnificent views. Otherwise, I would just put another 150,000 dollar lot there
and call it a day. So, with that I am going to stand for questions.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jim, your -- your average lots is about 9,500 square feet; right?
Conger: Madam Mayor, Mr. Bird, that -- that is --
Bird: If we are -- we are going to have that average lot why don't we go down to
an R-4? I think I know why you want to start -- start -- you want an R-8, but in
what we are approving tonight is just the preliminary plat, which can be changed.
And an R-8 allows for 4,000 square feet lots, 40 -- how wide? Forty feet? So,
once -- once you get the zoning, then, you can do -- I would like to see you go at
least -- I can't support it if we don't at least go to an R-4 period and nor will I
support it.
Conger: Well, Madam Mayor, Mr. Bird, if I may respond. The R-4 and R-8 -- as
far any concern -- and I may have mistook part of the conversation that there is
some concern that we can come back in with 40 foot wide lots. This approval not
only runs with the conditions, but we are also required to do a development
agreement that ties the density and the product in that development agreement .
Bird: Madam Mayor? Do you want me to start naming a bunch of developments
that have -- we have approved and had all them findings and facts and stuff on it,
pretty soon they are sold and they are all rezoned and changed -- I just can't
support an R-8 out there.
Conger: And, Madam Mayor, Mr. Bird, I definitely appreciate what you're saying
there. Obviously, if -- if something were to come back and rezone -- so, I'm
never going to say that's not possible or re-approved I guess -- would have to run
back through the same city process that we are here today of course.
Bird: You -- if you get the R-8 zoning all you do is change the preliminary -- the
plat, because you come -- you come in with those 40 -- 4,000 square foot lots
and the 40 foot entrance -- widths. That's -- I mean once you get the R-8 zoning,
that's R-8 zoning and it looks -- to a developer it's easier to sell to another
developer.
Conger: Madam Mayor and Mr. Bird, the only thing I will say -- and I'm not
debating with you -- is much different than other cities -- with the development
agreement process that the City of Meridian puts in place, that we have to have
executed before six months or it expires, which means the conditions expire, the
density is past. So, the open space of our 25 percent is in the development
agreement. So, there is no bait and switch. You -- you would -- you would have
all those limitations, which, of course, don't run with the developer, they run with
the land. Now, our first portion against Blackrock and a little L-shaped against
the first portion of the west boundary, those lots all do match the R-4 as you're
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indicating zoning. In our earlier discussions with staff it didn't seem tremendously
important to do a spot zone against those. We created the lots that meet R-4,
not only dimensional standards -- not density, because density is more about the
comp plan. So, if there were a sliver of R-4 that made everybody feel better, the
lots are already that way anyhow. But with the development agreement process
and the conditions of approval, it was not deemed necessary to do. It would just
be a feel good.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Jim, can you go through your comments related to construction
access? At one point I thought I heard you say that you -- you wouldn't use
Cyanite for construction access and, then, I heard maybe that you would and so
can you provide some clarification for me on that particular piece ?
Conger: Yeah. No. Absolutely. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, the
-- what I committed to and what we have committed to -- I believe I did at
Planning and Zoning as well, but with the land development -- so, all the
infrastructure and land development activities, we would take one hundred
percent access off Lake Hazel, because we can do our gravel, construction
access, and all those vehicles can go off road.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, follow up. Jim, I'm not that bright when it comes to
construction access and development. Can you talk me through what type of
vehicles you're talking about would be using these streets , so that I have a better
understanding?
Conger: No. That's a fair question. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener.
One of the biggest burdens on existing neighborhoods when we go develop the
next phases is literally the -- the hundreds and hundreds of trucks that bring in
the pit run gravel and the asphalt and all that type of material used. So, for the --
building the streets, all our landscaping, common areas, things of that nature, all
that would not access to the existing public streets, it would come off Lake Hazel,
not Cyanite, which is all of the land development.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, maybe one more clarificati on if I may, because some
of this stuff is -- I'm just that -- am I right in assuming that basically anything that
requires a commercial driver's license, a CDL, wouldn't be using city streets?
Wouldn't be using Cyanite and everything else would?
Conger: No. Madam Mayor, Council Member Cavener, any vehicle, whether it
be a pickup that a normal individual can drive with their normal driver's license or
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a semi load that takes a CDL to bring in my gravel to the site, would access off
Lake Hazel for all of the land development portion of that. All the way through
the streets being finished and landscaping being done.
Bird: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jim, you're saying landscaping and stuff. How about -- how about the
concrete trucks, the truss trucks -- I mean I can sit here and name all this -- I
spent 42 years in the construction business, so -- the landscaping is a minimum
of what you're going to get in there, the asphalt and stuff like that. Your concrete
trucks and stuff is going to be coming. You bringing them off of Lake Hazel?
Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bird, the concrete trucks for the land
development, which is the curbs, gutters, sidewalks are all coming off. The
building activities is what I indicated --
Bird: That's what I --
Conger: -- the vertical building, which would be the foundation and the house,
those trucks will have to come off of Cyanite and a public road. The truss trucks,
all those trailers are not -- and those tractor trailers are not fit to drive off cross
country. But the land development is a -- is a big part of the process as well. But
I -- roads are designed for that.
Bird: The roads might be designed, but how about the kids running around out
there? I mean -- I -- Jim, I wished you would have said we will get all our
construction trucks off of -- on and off Lake Hazel.
Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Bird, I wish I could say that, too, but --
but some of those vehicles aren't able to go cross country. They just can't. I
wish they could -- all of the land development would, which is a big portion of it.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Jim, there was a reference in a March 2nd letter from Chris Yorganson
and in part it states that -- with regards to the ACHD approval, he references that
-- I think it's -- he's representing the adjacent developer. He states we are
submitting an appeal to the ACHD administrative approval with regards to the
road layout. Can you comment on what, if anything, is going on with an
administrative appeal there?
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Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Borton, I did read that. There were no
appeals filed on the ACHD approval. ACHD is -- has the ten day appeal period
from their approval process and that -- there is no appeal filed.
De Weerd: Other questions? I would just make a couple observations. I
appreciated the public testimony, because certainly we have one chance to do it
right and I think you have done a nice layout for a subdivision and you do have
some nice amenities and we are familiar with your work. But I appreciated the
conversation about how we have treated our north end in preserving the rim.
You don't have very many view areas in our community and it is a unique
element and -- in our region and we need to look at not just providing the same
product we have all over town, but offering a choice -- a choice of housing for --
for everyone and that choice is not just price point. We, too, tried to find a lot that
had -- I love my yard and wanted to find that bigger lot and it is hard to find a
larger lot in Meridian. This is a future area that will not be rural. It is planned in a
comprehensive plan to be part of our city. But we do need to have unique
elements in our community and choices of housing. I know what you are doing
with your mixture of lot sizes, but I, too, would be concerned with the transition
and losing the opportunity of this unique area to do it right. The other concern I
would have is developing from the back side to the front side . We have always
wanted sidewalks done in the first phase and with that would come the entrance
into your subdivision to give it an identity and I -- I just think that this is going in
backwards and -- and so that would concern me as well. I know I don't have a
vote unless there is a tie, but you know -- and I have been known to quote a
council member that is no longer on here before , but we are not in a hurry. We
have one chance to do it right and I think you have a lot of good elements on this ,
but just some things a little bit backwards and maybe not utilizing this -- this asset
in our community to its ultimate opportunity. So, that's -- that's my two cents.
Council, anything further?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If we don't have anything more, needing no more testimony from the public,
I move we close the public hearing on H-2016-0137.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? Somebody want to second first.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second.
Palmer: Madam Mayor? As of late -- a few times when we have had heated --
not say heated, but robust projects before us we have left the public hearing
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open as we have discussed it as a Council in case something comes up to where
we want to ask Justin or the developer or anybody else a question. I would
encourage us to do that in this case, too.
De Weerd: If the motion maker and second wouldn't mind, I think that's a great
idea.
Bird: I would be glad to.
De Weerd: Which is why I made the comment, thinking it might spur some
discussion. Please make your comments, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: What makes you think I have any comments?
De Weerd: Because you're grabbing your microphone.
Palmer: I do. So, Madam Mayor, I -- I live at the base of this same rim, a little
further north and west, and from my property I look up to Reflection Ridge, which
is, as Mr. Conger pointed out, his lots are a little bit bigger than I guess Reflection
Ridge's are, but that is a high quality development. There is nothing lost by its
neighbors because it's there and it's R-8 zoning. They are dense as we are
defining it today, but not really, there is -- there is no apartments there. They are
very valuable homes. They are built along the ridge, so there is lots of people
that have a great view. They are missing amenities that Mr. Conger has pointed
out that he plans for his development an d -- and yet the home values there are
still very high and I -- I feel that why do we have a Comprehensive Plan if we are
going to say this is what we want here, developers go at it, and, then, say, yeah,
but not really. I think he's -- he's definitely gone above the minimums that we
would require of them. You know, when it comes to tot lots, as he pointed out,
it's right across the street from a giant park we are going to build. My subdivision
is riddled with tot lots and I -- I feel like I'm somewhat of a subject expert when it
comes to toddlers, that I have four kids under four and I would give up all of our
little tot lots to have the space and the amenities and the pathways that will
connect to each other that will exist within that neighborhood. I mean we have a
very high quality project before us that as -- if it -- we were to deny it and
everything gets developed around it, may come back with something not so
appetizing and I haven't been here all that long, but from what I understand of the
reputation that what he says he is going to build he intends to build, correct me if
I'm wrong, I don't -- I haven't been here that long. I have been in Meridian, but I
haven't been on the Council to see every project come before us and so I -- if
history is any indication of projects that we have -- we have approved and
amenities that we have asked for and quality that we have asked for, this is it and
it's transitional in that there is no apartments going there. Those come further --
further down the road. I understand it's not the transition you're looking for, but
you could certainly have worse if we deny this today.
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Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I -- I tend to agree more with what you said. I believe this is a good
project. I don't believe that it gives enough transition with the lot sizes against
the lots that it's next to and overall 2.8 sounds really good, but if you take out
those large sections and the open space, really, it's pretty high density and I just
-- I just don't think that it fits right there. I think it's a nice development, Jim, but I
just don't -- I don't like the way that it lays out in this particular location. I don't
think it does the neighbors any justice and , therefore, long-term outlook on our
city and our community, I think it -- it takes away in this particular location.
De Weerd: Other comments?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I thought I saw Justin. Justin Lucas. Would you mind coming up
here? I got a couple questions for you.
De Weerd: Oh, you were camouflaged really nicely, Justin.
Cavener: It appears that he moved.
Lucas: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you know me, always trying to
hide in here, you know, I don't want to be called up. But I'm glad to be here. My
name is Justin Lucas. Business address is 3775 Adams Street in Garden City,
Idaho, and I'm here tonight representing the Ada County Highway District.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, Justin, I'm looking at -- I think the -- the ACHD report,
dated February 24th and -- I don't know if we can pull it up for Justin. I don't want
him to have to guess as to where I'm headed, but, it speaks to the seven lane
build out. Mr. Conger referenced it early in his testimony. I'm talking about
number eight, bullet number five, if we are able to put that up. Where it says the
intersection of Lake Hazel, South Highway 69, to Meridian Road is listed in the
CIP to be widened to seven lanes on 2026 to 2030. Mr. Conger referenced it
early in his testimony, the public reference testimony saying that he was
inaccurate. He somewhat backtracked his statement in his earlier testimony. I
just think that it's important as we deliberate that we have some facts before us
and I figured you're the best subject matter expert to speak to .
Lucas: Sure. Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, I'm glad to provide the
clarity. There is two different things that determine the number of lanes on a
roadway that ACHD uses. The first of those I will describe is our capital
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improvements plan, which is our 20 year capital planning document and so that
plan is constrained by time and it's based on the projected demand for a roadway
within a specific time period 20 years. That plan calls for Lake Hazel in this area
to be three lanes, but remember, that's constrained by time and as areas develop
we know that this area will likely be developing well beyond 20 years from now.
There is a lot of ground out there. So, the other document I will reference is our
master street map, which is our long range planning tool and that document as
well references Lake Hazel as a five lane residential mobility arterial. So, it is
anticipated to be a major corridor in the long term and between now and 20 years
we anticipate it's going to need to be widened some. Beyond that it may need to
be widened even and so I hope that provides some clarity about how we go
about widening roads. It's very possible that if we -- you know, 15 years from
now we go out there to widen that road, we may choose to widen it beyond the
three lanes that our plan calls for, knowing that in five or ten years it's going to
need to be widened again and we do that all the time. So, ultimately, the five
lane designation is an accurate representation , much like you would see what we
are doing right now on Ustick Road in north Meridian. I think that's a great
example of what Lake Hazel Road has the opportunity to be someday and the
seven lane at the intersection, it gets a little confusing, because we start talking
there about left-hand turn lanes, right- hand turn lanes, and so we add lanes at
intersections to accommodate turning movements.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further for Justin while we have him up front? Thank
you, Justin.
Lucas: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there additional discussion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If we are ready, I move we close the public hearing on H -2016-0137.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those I
favor say aye. Any opposed? Okay.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
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Palmer: Madam Mayor, as discussion can continue after a motion, I will throw it
out there. I move that we approve H-2016-0137 as it was presented.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion. Do I have a second?
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate the -- the motion and the second. I struggle with approving
this, though, as -- as is. I think that we have heard a significant amount of public
testimony tonight that addresses a wide array of issues. Some about amenities
and are they appropriate, are they not. The developer has I think addressed that.
One of the things that I have struggled with is that, you know, we as a community
talk about providing diverse housing options for people and we heard from some
residents who live in Hillsdale that called that their dream home. I called my
home south of Meridian our dream home, but I would also skip at the chance if I
could afford to live on a five acre lot further south of Meridian and further away
from people. I know this product would be a dream home for many people in our
community. So, I struggle with that. If we are for diverse housing opportunities,
this is a diverse housing opportunity that would allow for people to have their
dream home a bit different than what others define as a dream home. The two
pieces that I have struggled with that I can't wrap my head around -- Madam
Mayor, I think you addressed one and Councilman Bird addressed the other, is --
is a true transition and I feel there is a lot of opportunity to be respectful to the
current homeowners in that area, but also achieving what the applicant is looking
to achieve. The second piece is about the construction access. Those are
public streets that are designed to handle the vehicle s and I think the applicant
accurately articulated that. I'm just -- I'm challenged with the safety aspect for --
what we have heard is kids live within that area and the amount of vehicles that
would be accessing that particular area for a significant amount of time. I think
the applicant has a great opportunity, Madam Mayor, to your point, to develop
the -- the sidewalks and the street with phase one, create a full pathway that
would get people in south Meridian access to that forthcoming park and address
what I think is a very valid concern from the current residents about the amount
of vehicles that would be accessed. So, while, again, I appreciate the -- the
maker of the motion and the second, I just don't feel comfortable supporting this
application as is.
De Weerd: Thank you. Additional comments? Yes, Mrs. Little Roberts.
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Little Roberts: Madam Mayor, I agree with Councilman Cavener regarding his
concerns, especially regarding transition, and I know with the Comprehensive
Plan what planned to be potentially someday, but right now when we have got
ten acre parcels next to it, it seems like that is not a transition, to just go from R-8
to ten acres and I agree with what Councilman Bird said earlier about looking
more strongly at R-4.
De Weerd: Or R-2. Any additional comment?
Bird: Call for the question.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, nay; Borton, nay; Milam, nay; Cavener, nay; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, nay.
De Weerd: Okay. Oh, please don't.
MOTION FAILED: ONE AYE. FIVE NAYS.
Bird: I will make a motion and -- and I -- I think Jim and -- and his group know
that -- and nothing was personal that I have said towards them guys, they have
been very good developers and done it. But I -- I have just -- a little history on
this. You know, when I first come on here we got accused of being an R-4. Well,
I wish we were still accused of being an R-4. I had a couple of people that talked
me into going with R-8s back in 2000 and -- anyway, I would make a motion that
we approve East Ridge Estates Subdivision, H-2016-0137, request the annex
and zoning -- this is all I'm -- with an R-4 zoning district and I'm not -- feel like I
don't have to -- the preliminary plat I can't -- beg your pardon?
Nary: Mr. Bird, Members of the Council, I mean you have just denied the
application --
De Weerd: No. The motion was to approve.
Nary: Oh, I'm sorry. Okay. So, yes, you can -- you can approve it as a
different --
Bird: I can approve it as the zoning and -- annexation and zoning as an R-4, but,
then, leave the preliminary plat out.
Nary: Well, because it would require a complete redesign, Mr. Bird, I wou ld
suggest if that's the desire of the Council, that you remand it back to the Planning
and Zoning Commission --
Bird: Okay.
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Nary: -- with that direction that you would like it --
Bird: I will -- I will pull that -- I will pull the motion, Mayor, if I'm good. And I would
make another motion. I move that we remand back to Planning and Zoning H -
2016-0137 with a designation of an annexation and zoning of an R -4 district.
Milam: Second.
Little Roberts: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Discussion?
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: An R-4 isn't going to change the size of the lot minimums by a whole lot.
Bird: Big time.
Palmer: Compared to what the project has alre ady set at.
Bird: No.
Palmer: We have closed the public hearing -- I don't know if we want to have
staff to go over some of the numbers for us before we go ahead and deny it and,
then, we can all be educated later, but --
De Weerd: Staff can comment.
Palmer: Josh, if you want to --
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the subdivision that's before
you has some lot sizes that are 6,500 square feet. I don't know off the top of my
head how many of those are, but the majority of the lots ar e -- meet the square
footages of the R-4 standards, but they don't meet the street frontage
requirements, so I think that's the other reason why the applicant was pursuing
the R-8, because they could still get kind of in between that sweet spot for their
lots and their type of home products that they want to see. Again, you have the
ability to remand it back, as Mr. Nary stated -- back to P&Z, but I was also
wondering if you wanted to give the applicant ability to bring back maybe a plat
that had the lot sizes -- a plat that showed you the R-4 dimensional standards. It
would require him to lose probably at 15 -- 10, 15 percent of your lots, Jim? I
don't know the number off the top of my head, but it would significantly change
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the number of lots that they are proposing this evening. There would be a pretty
good difference there.
De Weerd: I understand why the zoning designation because of the flexibility it
gives the developer to be more creative than a cookie cutter subdivision and
perhaps that's something that this Council should have a workshop with staff on
is figuring out some of these designations and -- because when you hear R-8 it is
intimidating and the implication, if it's not the developer that stands in front of you,
but it's sold and, then, it's someone else, I understand that some of this is in
development agreements, but it's misleading and we need to -- we need to kind
of have a conversation with Council to -- to kind of flush out some of the pros and
cons of -- of this way of doing things this -- the gross density is -- does already
fall in an R-4 and so I don't know if that necessarily solves the -- the concerns
that have been expressed by Council and certainly by the neighbors, so -- but --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: The biggest thing is the width. What's your width on an R-4?
Parsons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it's 60 feet of street frontage.
Bird: How much?
Parsons: Sixty feet for an R-4 now.
Bird: And what's an R-8?
Parsons: Forty.
Bird: And an R-8 can go down to 4,000 square feet?
Parsons: That is correct.
Bird: And what can an R-4 go to?
Parsons: Minimum square footage for the lot size is 8,000.
Bird: Eight thousand. Right?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, you can build an expensive house on -- on that lot that --
Bird: I know it.
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De Weerd: -- that's very attractive and the conversation has been does it belong
in this area.
Bird: I don't believe that an R-8 transitions with the rest of the stuff that's out
there. No way, shape or form. Let's call for the question.
Beach: Madam Mayor, if I could just -- something else shared at the Planning
and Zoning Commission hearing was that the Blackrock Subdivision is zoned R-
4, but it -- the lot sizes are a lot bigger than minimum lot sizes for the R-4, as
indicated by our zoning code of 8,000. Even if it was zoned R -2, 12,000 square
foot lots is the minimum for the R-2 zoning district. So, I just want to make sure
that we are aware of what -- what those dimensions -- minimum standards are for
those zoning districts as you're making your motion.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Mr. Borton.
Borton: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: You want to pull your mic up?
Borton: Is there a motion and a second?
Bird: Yeah.
Borton: Okay. So, we are --
De Weerd: I don't think we had a second. Did we have a second? Oh, we had
several seconds. I'm sorry. Yes.
Borton: Okay. On the remand. Additional concerns that come with that -- one
remanding and making a substantial change like that at this stage is a bit
concerning, but some of the problems that have been shown in the application
relate to timing and it goes to your comment about there are certain
circumstances that might be rare where not being in a rush is the right
perspective to have and -- and changing the zoning to R-4 may or may not
address some of the concerns on the transition. You can call it R-50, R-2, R-10,
it's -- it's a difficult transition the way it's laid out right now, so that's really what
we are trying to address I think with regards to the zoning designation. But some
of the other considerations and concerns that are raised and acknowledged by
the applicant, who does fantastic work in the city -- fantastic work -- deal with
other constraints, whether it's water, topography, with the riparian open space
issues, sewer, transportation and access -- there is availability of resources
concerns that arise when you develop on the outside of your town that give you --
give you some pause -- at least give me pause to question whether it's an
appropriate timing for a project like this to go in this location . It's a wonderful
development that might be better suited in a different location. So, while a
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April 4, 2017
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remand might solve some of the transition concerns, it doesn't necessarily solve
some of the other timing concerns that this location brings about. So, I share the
concerns of other Council Members with approving this project at this location
and add the concern that I don't know if -- if a remand -- assuming that even
make sense and works for the -- for the applicant with a rezone would be able to
address the other problems that -- that still exist on this project.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: No comments. I promise. A lot of these projects where we have
struggled in the past and have denied them, I feel like it's really easy for us to
spend somebody else's money. As a city we support the -- the old city hall,
people that are looking to grow a business, start a business, we don't say why
don't you just go build your own office building. Well, because it doesn't make
sense. You have got -- you have a business plan that includes incremental
phasing to be able to build to that point, so you got a successful project, a
successful business. But when it comes to developments we are often anxious
to -- to spend developers' money and say why don't you just b uild that whole
road out there and just make everybody happy. Well, because in the business
plan it probably doesn't make sense and so that's why often we do support
phasing plans that don't always include putting the sidewalk all the way across
the frontage of the property, though we would like it, we can often see that it
makes sense not to do that up front and I just struggle with this -- supporting the
old city hall and their plans and, then, telling a developer that's wanting to invest
millions of dollars into our city but not you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I guess respectfully I'm going to have to disagree with Councilman
Palmer. I think that --
De Weerd: Will you pull your mic closer.
Cavener: You're not -- there we go. Wow. We are not comparing apples to
apples to do with that particular scenario. I think at least for my request is -- is a
safety issue, whereas investing in businesses at old city hall is not a life safety
issue. So, I appreciate the correlation you're trying to make. To me I don't think
it compares with this particular instance.
De Weerd: Any further discussion? We do have a motion to remand back with a
recommendation of an R-4. Any further discussion?
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Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Unless Councilman Borton had a --
Borton: Madam Mayor, I -- I don't. I think, you know, the remand -- as long as
the -- the developer is given clear direction, which I think he is, that if there is a
remand and it's to address an R-4 concern, there is, obviously, other concerns
and whether they are raised at P&Z or at other City Council meetings, those
issues are going to have to be discussed and addressed. So, if a remand
somehow allows that to be solved -- or resolved, that would be great. I'm not
certain how you would -- how that could happen in light of the particular
challenges with this project, but it's -- if you can make it happen. A remand at
least gives them the opportunity to try and address it.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: With a remand they will have -- they will be aware of all of our concerns,
correct, the Planning and Zoning. They will have -- not just for the R-4, but they
will have our other concerns about the timing of the -- of the Lake Hazel and --
and everything else as well. Are we remanding it strictly for saying approve this
as an R-4?
De Weerd: I think the motion doesn't give a whole lot of direction and I think
that's what Councilman Borton's comments were about.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Certainly the discussion has maybe provided some -- Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I -- remanding it back as an R-4 -- they got to come back in
with a different plan and I know Jim and his partners have been sitting out there
and they have got a pretty good idea of what -- what will come through and what
won't come through, so we could sit -- I could sit here and make you a big list of
stuff, but, you know, the timing is another thing. I hope they will come back and
figure out a way to get all the construction stuff off of Lake Hazel instead of
coming through a subdivision, but I just -- I think we need to remand it back and
-- as an R-4 and see what they can do.
De Weerd: Well, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Borton: One second. Madam Mayor?
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April 4, 2017
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De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If I could. Mr. Nary, can you clarify that? Because it would seem that
the procedure on the remand of the annexation and the plat to P&Z is essentially
a do over. The scope is not limited; right? It's a new public hearing and process
for everything with the application.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilman Borton. So, the
difference you have here is either to remand it back to Planning and Zoning
Commission with the direction that you have all stated on the record, including
the desire that it be returned as an R-4 designation at the -- at the most -- at the
maximum. Or deny it. If you deny it the project can't come forward for a year if
it's substantially the same. From the comments of the Council it couldn't come
forward if it's substantially the same regardless. So, the real difference is timing.
If we -- if we have a denial that gets submitted and done. It pretty much puts the
developer back to square one and starting over completely. Neighborhood
meeting, all of that. The remand doesn't require a neighborhood meeting, it
doesn't require -- and if I'm wrong please correct me, but it basically gets -- it gets
scheduled on the Planning and Zoning Commission at a future date. Notices will
go out and that, but the neighborhood meeting piece won't happen. So, that's --
that's a little bit of the difference between them. Obviously one can be done in a
little bit faster pace than a denial generally and if you start over it's going to take
a little longer. So, those are really probably the substantial differences that I can
think of off the top of my head and, Bill or Josh, if I am incorrect please correct
me and if there is something else I'm forgetting --
Beach: Mr. Nary, that's absolutely correct.
Nary: Okay.
Beach: If you remand it back it just goes straight to Planning and Zoning for a
hearing and, then, if you deny it they would have to start over and, as Mr. Nary
said, it would have to be substantially different. So we would have to take a look
at their lot count, the lot sizes, things like that to make a finding that it was
different than what they had proposed this time.
Nary: Mayor and Council, if those -- those are the basic parameters of the
difference in remand or denial, whatever your preference is that's where you
should go.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
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Borton: Both the annexation and the plat would be remanded; correct? And the
scope of the discussion at P&Z and, then, again, at City Council would be as
broad as it is today.
Nary: Yes.
Borton: It could be. Correct. It's not remanded for a single -- a single issue, to,
then, come back with a recommendation to Council on a single issue --
technically be a do over with regards to the scope of what could be considered; is
that right?
Nary: Yes. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton,
yes. The next public hearing at Planning and Zoning would be a do over. So,
yeah, they would have to bring back a project at an R-4 level, but, again, if they
were to ignore all of the information that this hearing has had, that probably
wouldn't be very practical.
Borton: But we are not constrained.
Nary: They are not constrained.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further conversation? Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, nay; Palmer, nay; Little
Roberts, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. TWO NAYS.
De Weerd: Okay. So, this will be remanded back to Planning and Zoning and,
Mr. Conger, I would recommend, even though a neighborhood meeting would not
be required, it would be suggested. Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Thanks, Jim.
F. Public Hearing: Proposed Summer 2017 Fee Schedule of
the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department
1. Resolution No. 17-2003: A Resolution Adopting the
Summer 2017 Fee Schedule of the Meridian Parks
and Recreation Department; Authorizing the Meridian
Parks and Recreation Department to Collect Such
Fees; and Providing an Effective Date
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you all for lasting through this meeting with us and
wish you a good remaining of your evening. We will be here. Okay. Item 9-F is
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April 4, 2017
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a public hearing for proposed summer 2017 fee schedule. And there is Jake.
And Steve.
Garo: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. I'm here tonight
to seek approval of the 2017 summer fee schedule. Our activity guide is
currently in the layout and design and will be released Friday, March 14th, with
registration beginning --
De Weerd: Hey, Jake, hold on for a moment. If we could be as quiet as we can
moving on. Okay. Go ahead.
Garo: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Garo: As I mentioned, our summer guide will be released next Friday, April 14th,
with summer registration for classes beginning the following Monday, April 17th.
Some of the new classes we got on board this summer -- we do have line
dancing for adults. That kind of fell in our lap. There was -- I believe a crunch
fitness taken out at Idaho Athletic Club. There was a number of individuals that
were looking for a place to line dance in the community and keep it here in
Meridian, because it is growing and so we have scheduled those in during the
summer months at the community center and also a level two pickleball class.
As I mentioned before, pickleball is kind of the thing in Parks and Rec. We have
-- we have started a fall -- or excuse me -- a beginner pickleball lesson class over
at Home Court this fall and this winter and we are going to take it up to a level
two class. We found an instructor to offer that for -- for those individuals that are
seeking to hone in their skills in pickleball and attend tournaments and be more
of a competitive fast player and also something else I'm excited about this
summer is we have expanded our outdoor adventure camp . Typically previous
summers that's been a six week camp. That -- that camp fills for the whole
summer long within a week of registration, so we have decided to take
advantage of those extra three weeks in the summer that we have at Willow
Creek Elementary and run that camp for nine weeks in conjunction with our -- our
summer day camp and our let's play sports camp. So, those are some of the
exciting things that we are going to see in the summer activi ty guide and if you
have any questions I will stand to answer those.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jake. Council, any questions? Thank you.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Hold on. We do have a public hearing. You can -- you're good. This
is a public hearing. Is there anyone who wishes to provide testimony on this
item? Okay. Now.
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Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I move that we --
De Weerd: Well, first close the public hearing.
Little Roberts: Oh. I'd like to close the public hearing -- I move we close the
public hearing.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Thank you. I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing
on Item 9-F. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: I apologize. I'm getting a little rummy.
De Weerd: That's all right.
Little Roberts: I move that we accept the proposed summer 2017 fee schedule
for the Meridian Parks and Recreation Department.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9 -F. Mr. Clerk, will
you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
G. Public Hearing: Proposed Updates to the City Clerk’s
Office Fee Schedule
1. Resolution No. 17-2004: A Resolution Adopting Fee
Schedule of the Meridian City Clerk’s Office;
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April 4, 2017
Page 97 of 105
Authorizing the Clerk’s Office to Collect Such Fees;
And Providing an Effective Date
De Weerd: Item 9-G is another public hearing under the City Clerk's Office,
proposed resolution number is 17-2004. I will open this public hearing with the
City Clerk's comment.
Coles: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if it's okay I'm going to present to
you tonight from my station so I can control the presentation briefly.
De Weerd: Well -- and it's faster.
Coles: It is quicker. This is true. So, you -- on the screen you have the -- a
public notice that -- well, we sent out. I came before you two weeks ago at the
March 21st meeting to present our updates to our schedule. These are the
changes that were required to be noticed for the public hearing. We discussed
those at length, then, but it's the public records request attorney fees associated
with that, so when required, and also other labor which is associated mainly in
the clerk's office because of those changes and , then, adding the Dairy Days Art
Show vendor fee, which currently doesn’t exist, to help mainly with the renting --
renting of the tents, the canopies, for the artists during the Dairy Days Art Show.
I click over here real quick. This is our entire schedule that we would be
proposing this evening to have the Council approve and adopt this resolution.
But, again, the main focus was those three fees that we were looking to change.
So, with that I will stand for any questions as we continue this public hearing from
two weeks ago.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Any public testimony? Seeing none.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move we close the public hearing on Item 9-G.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we approve resolution number 17 -2004.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9 -G. Any discussion?
Questions? Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: Department Reports
D. Police Department: Budget Amendments
1. Budget Amendment for Alive at 25 Grant Not-to-
Exceed $20,000
2. Budget Amendment for DUI Officer Grant Not-to-
Exceed $41,000
3. Budget Amendment for Motor Officer Grant Not-to-
Exceed $56,000
4. Budget Amendment for Mobilization Grant Not-to-
Exceed $38,500
De Weerd: Item 10-D is under our Police Department. Hey, John, you picked
the wrong day to have this on.
Gonzales: Madam Mayor, Council, thank you for having me here to represent
the Police Department. We have four items on the agenda. This is in reference
to some grants that we have. The grants are for fiscal year '17. Our award
letters for these grants didn't come until after the budget process had been
completed and as a result we are here today asking for spending authority for
these items. As you know, we have a great partnership with the Office of
Highway Safety, which is part of the Idaho Transportation Department and it's
such that this is the fund -- some funding sources that they give us to be able to
continue some of the projects that we work on in the police department. These
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April 4, 2017
Page 99 of 105
are revenue neutral. These are for -- again, for fiscal year '17 that started
October 1. So, we are just asking for spending authority. I'm going to go ahead
and maybe talk about each one and, then, pause. I'm suspecting there is some
procedural issues you will have to do with each one, otherwise, I can go through
all four of them if you would like.
De Weerd: I think you can go through all four.
Gonzales: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Gonzales: So, the first one is going to be Live At 25. Alive At 25 we are asking
for 20,000 dollars in reimbursements for overtime of our instructors of the
program. This is the grant that allows us to have four to five classes each month
of the Alive At 25 program and, then, this is our sixth year doing the Alive At 25
program and one of the things that with time the program is currently being
revamped and a new curriculum is being developed and sent out. So, we are
happy to see that we are going to be able to change your program up a little bit.
We think that the program was great the way it was, but with the times changing
and learning styles changing we are going to be changing our program and that's
part of the curriculum provided by the National Safety Council. The next one is
the DUI officer grant. This is a grant that is in its third year of a three -year grant.
So, this is the final year. This is federal funding wages and benefits up to 41,000
for fiscal year '17. In our budget we had already put a match of 123,000 dollars
and this provided us two officers dedicated to DUI enforcement. And just on a
side note, those officers have been doing a great job with their assignments. The
other thing as -- now that I'm back on patrol working swing shift , they help us,
because they are officers that are available if we have something that we need
their help with as well. So, great to have those officers out helping us out in the
field doing some very important work as well. The other one is going to be the
motor officer grant. This is year two of a three year grant. Federal funding of
wages and benefits up to 56,000 dollars for fiscal year '17. Our match for this is
29,000 and this has been already included in the fiscal year '17 budget process
and this provides us one motor officer to enhance our traffic enforcement and
crash investigations. So, that's what that grant is about. And, then, the last item
is our mobilization grant. This one is for 38,500 dollars. Just a note, there is a
grant that is being given to us in this amount of 13,905 dollars and that's to equip
another nine of our vehicles with radar speed measurement equipment and that
allows our entire fleet of vehicles to have speed enforcement equipment in them.
So, with this we are able to do mobilizations that the Office of Highway Safety
has set up for impaired driving, aggressive driving, distracted driving, and other
similar type of mobilizations as well. This is our tenth year doing these projects
with the Office of Highway Safety and so this mobilization grant helps us with
primarily overtime money to be able to bring officers in on overtime t o be able to
Meridian City Council
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work on whatever the emphasis might be during that mobilization. I will stand for
questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Sergeant Gonzales. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Well, yeah, when you bring budget amendments for revenue that is
awesome.
Bird: Yeah. Hundred and fifty-five five.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve a budget amendment for Alive After Five grant
not to exceed 20,000 dollars. Can I do these all at once?
Bird: Do them all. Yes.
Milam: List them separately or just approve 10-D?
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: 10-D, one through four.
Milam: One through four.
De Weerd: Any discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
E. Public Works: Budget Amendment for FY 2017 in a Not-
to-Exceed Amount of $72,000.00 for the Design of the
Pumping Facility at Well 32
De Weerd: Item 10-E. Public Works.
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Radek: Madam Mayor, Council Members, I'm about to ask you for some money
to contribute to Well 32 and the answer is, no, it's not going to improve the water
quality in Blackrock.
De Weerd: Oh.
Radek: But I wanted to -- if you don't mind, I know it's pretty late, I just want to
take a couple minutes and give you a little more information on our brown water
quality improvements and what the plan is moving forward. I didn't want it to take
-- go down a goat trail in the public hearing, because that really wasn't what the
issue was. But we have made a lot of improvements being made -- I mean I
don't remember -- 2012 we came to you and said we are going to start attacking
this brown water problem and since, then, we have -- we have just completed our
third iron and manganese treatment facility and we started doing that in pressure
zone two, which is our largest pressure zone, serves the most customers, so we
thought we should improve the water first. We heard from Jamie Allen this year
when he was doing his flushing that he is -- it's the best he's seen the water in 18
years and we have seen fewer brown water calls. We are currently working on
our treatment filter of Well 22, which is in pressure zone three, so we are
stepping up two, three -- pressure zone four we don't have -- we have cleaner --
cleaner resources as far as the iron and manganese are concerned, so like I
said, next year we start on Well 28, which is -- which has the ability to be a
pressure zone five well. We also have Well 30 coming online probably this fall.
We are going to bid it out in about three weeks. Well 30 we will supply water to
pressure zone five in Blackrock and it is one of the places where we got lucky
and we were able to dodge that uranium in the -- the upper level, the aquifer, but
this one, Well 32, I'm asking for tonight is going to be a well that provides fire
flow. As I let Council know before, I work for the fire department mostly. We
have to have fire flow for these new houses that are going up, as well as the
domestic -- domestic water to serve them. That's what Well 32 is going to be
about. But another one of the problems we have done in south Meridian -- unlike
other pressure zones, pressure zone five is scattered between Biltmore,
Reflection Ridge, and Blackrock. Blackrock is at the end of a two mile waterline
and how many homes are there, about 30 -- 44? And that's a lot of water to get
used and they just don't use it up fast enough and -- and that contributes to the
water quality problems. I do think Well 30 will have a real positive effect and I
also -- also have some ideas operationally how we might be able to -- to improve
the water quality out there. I don't always hear about those brown water calls,
they go to the water division, and I'm too busy modeling fire flows in these new
subdivisions and they may or may not let me know about that. So, I'm going to
talk to them tomorrow, see if there is anything we can do immediately. But the
reason I am here is for Well 32. We have -- we are -- I would say as we speak,
but I don't think they are working late tonight. We are in the middle of
constructing the production well. This is year two of our three year project and
the production well will be completed in a matter of weeks and the next step is to
design and, then, build a public facilities out there -- I said Biltmore, I believe.
Meridian City Council
April 4, 2017
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Gray Cliff is really the subdivision it's going to be in. And the -- the idea for the
year two was to provide money for the construction of the production well, as well
as the design of the pumping facility, the pump house, and we are coming before
you tonight to ask for additional money for the design -- to begin to design the
pump house so we can keep the project on schedule, rather than having to wait
until the next fiscal year to start designing the pump house , which would -- yeah,
which would push the project, so we wouldn't be able to complete it next fiscal
year and the reason we -- you know, we don't always guess our budget right on,
but there is -- there is a pretty good reason on this one why the production well
costs about quite a bit more money than we thought it was going to cost. We --
like I said, with Well 30 we were able to keep that well about 400, 450 feet deep
and get some water that didn't have iron and manganese in it, you know, we
found a good layer that didn't have uranium that was too high. At Well 32, that
site, it was not possible. We -- we explored that entire aquifer -- the oxidized
aquifer -- all that stuff got uranium over the maximum contaminant level. So, the
only place to go get your water is deep and when you go and get your water
deep you get iron and manganese, ammonia, and hydrogen, sulfide, but you also
have to drill a deeper well and it costs more money, which is why we -- we don't
have the money for -- to start design of the pumping facilities. And so -- and just
in case you're wondering -- so, the ultimate plan for Well 32, like I said, we got to
have -- we got to have fire protection for all these brand new homes that are
getting built everywhere. So, Well 32's function in the immediate future will be a
fire protection well. It will sit there and -- you probably hate to hear this, but it will
sit there and it won't run unless there is a fire. But it's a -- it's a regulatory
requirement that the rules for public drinking water systems require of us, we got
to have it, but when we eventually get the demand we need in pressure zone five
what we will do with that well is we have got -- we have got a nice big well lot and
we have got a great place to put the iron and manganese filter there. So ,
ultimately -- and we build our wells for I think a hundred years with --
De Weerd: I think you have already sold us.
Radek: I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Anyway. Anyway, we are asking for 72,000 dollars
for our design of the pumping facility for Well 32 and, then, I will stand for any
questions.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you, Kyle. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Kyle, I understand that this is -- just the 72,000 is for the design of the
pumping facility and that's the building that it sits -- that sits over it; right?
Radek: That's correct.
Meridian City Council
April 4, 2017
Page 103 of 105
Bird: And our budget -- did we have -- well, what is going to be the cost of the
building?
Radek: Well, that's going to be a budget enhancement for FY-2018 and -- I don't
want to tell you right now.
Bird: What kind of -- because this is a lot of money to design a building.
Radek: That's about --
Bird: Unless they are designing all the equipment with inside it --
Radek: Well, that's -- yeah, that includes the -- Councilman Bird and Madam
Mayor, that includes the pump, the BFD, the -- all the equipment in there. It also
includes a flush line and it has to go to a detention pond. There is going to be
backup power at that site. So, it's a significant effort and -- and it's not any more
expensive than any other consultant we use.
Bird: I mean I would think when you drill the well that all the pumping facility --
that stuff would be part of your well.
Radek: The well is just a hole in the ground --
Bird: Okay.
Radek: -- Councilman Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I want Kyle to be able to get up and come to work in the morning. I move
we approve the budget for Public Works not to exceed 72,000 for the design of
the pumping facility at Well 32.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discu ssion? Mr. Clerk, will you
call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea; Little
Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
April 4, 2017
Page 104 of 105
De Weerd: Thank you.
Radek: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Item 11: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Upcoming events. Council, we would love to have you come out and
the walk with us. The Walking Club tomorrow at -- is at Hunter Elementary from
10:30 to 11:15. Thursday at Discovery Elementary from 10 :20 to 10:35. At
Peregrine from 12:50 to 1:15. And Monday, April 10th, at Ponderosa at 10:30 --
at 2:30 and Meridian at 11:51. So, if you get bored I would invite you to come out
and walk with me. They love to see -- we had a couple of our directors, Senator
Winter was out today, so we had two walking club events today. So, we'd love to
have you join us. Hillsdale Park ground breaking is April 7th at 2:30. And the
Keys to Safe Driving class put on by our Police Department, with the Mayor's
Senior Advisory Board, is on Saturday, April 11th, from 9:00 to 11:00. So,
upcoming events. Anything for future agendas?
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Not for a future agenda, but if you -- after you do all the walking with
the Mayor and you still want to do some more walking, the Historic -- the
Meridian Historic Walking App went live today, so I would encourage you to
download it --
De Weerd: Awesome.
Cavener: -- and rank it five stars. And YouBid, it's a great app and great project
that HPC has completed.
De Weerd: Cool. Did he beat you to it or --
Palmer: No.
Cavener: Okay. Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: One future topic. Adjournment. I move we adjourn.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All right.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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Page 105 of 105
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 11:25 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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MAYOR Tt�/41W DE WEERD DATE APPROVED
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C. JAY COLF,8, CITY CLERK
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