Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutSeptember 14, 2004 C/C minutes Meridian City Pre-Council Meetina September 14.2004 The Meridian City Pre-Council meeting was called to order at 6:30 P.M. on Tuesday, September 14,2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Bill Nary, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle and Charlie Rountree. Others Present: Bill Nichols, Brad Watson and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll-call Attendance: -L- Bill Nary -L-Keith Bird -L- Shaun Wardle -L- Charlie Rountree ----2L- Mayor Tammy de Weerd Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Bird: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Bird. Bird: I move we adopt the agenda as published. Rountree: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as published. All those in favor say aye. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Item 3. Discuss Request from Ashford Greens Maintenance Agreement of Drainage Ponds: to Address Watson: Mr. President, Mayor and Council members I can to a certain degree. I'll give a brief background of a long, long situation, I guess. When Ashford Greens came in for preliminary plat approval I think it was 1996, maybe 1995. They had indicated on their application not real explicitly, but implicitly that there would be storm water drainage facilities on the golf course. That ended up getting approved through the courses of the six phases of Ashford Greens there have been six drainage swale/ponds built on the golf course property. The first three phases there was an easement recorded between the city and ACHD. I think the last three ponds there was an actual, not only an easement, but a three party agreement between the city, ACHD and the homeowner's association, I believe that somewhat spelled out maintenance responsibilities. The Highway District has responsibility for heavy maintenance, which really means that if they Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 14, 2004 Page 2 ot8 are failing they will repair them. The light maintenance responsibilities which include mowing, spraying fertilizer that sort of thing is what is at question here. I was contacted the summer of '03 by several people from the homeowner's association wanting some resolution to this and as stated in the letter from the association that slipped between the cracks from (inaudible), they contacted me again this summer and I subsequently followed up with Mr. Nichols after some back and forth conversation, I think we came up with a recommendation and that recommendation and Mr. Nichols please feel free to jump in at any point on this, but I believe that recommendation was that the drainage facilities whether they are on the golf course or would have been in the lots would have been maintained by the homeowner's association. By putting them on the city property where the golf course is they, the developer, was able to construct or sell a handful more lots. I think that's where our recommendation lies. This has been quite a saga for the last eight years and there is a lot more details if you have any questions, but I guess I will leave it at that unless you have more. Nary: Council, any-? Rountree: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Brad, where are the three that sounds like that are in question? What are the locations? Watson: I am trying to remember the numbers at the fairways and it's been a while, so I can't remember precisely, maybe the people in the audience can more clearly identify those. Going in reverse order there is one in phase six, the last fairway before you get to the clubhouse; there is one right at the very beginning of that fairway over towards Black Cat Road; there is a rather large one just north of Tallamar when you are coming in off of Black Cat. There is another one in phase three right next to Black Cat you can see as you are driving north on Black Cat towards Midlake Drive; and then there is another one that's internal. t guess that would be the fourth or fifth fairway and there is one more that I am missing and I can't remember where it is. They are spread out. Nary: Council, shall we hear from the Board of the Ashford Green's Homeowner's Association? I assume some of these folks here are here for that purpose. Rountree: Sure. T. Brown: Do we have a specific time? Nary: No. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 14, 2004 Page30f8 T. Brown: Okay. I appreciate the opportunity to be here and to give you some of our insights into the issues that we have been trying to deal with. Nary: What's your name, just for the record? T. Brown: Timothy Brown with Ashford Green's Homeowner's Board. I am the president this year. We have been for the last year and one half has assumed ownership of the board from Brighton Corporation, the developer and doing various things to try and get on top of the issue relating to our subdivision and the interchange between us and the golf course. One of these has been the maintenance and upkeep of the seepage beds, which are located on the golf course and doing these as we have tried to review the easement agreements that have been filed and recorded we have noticed that there are some inconsistencies with who specifically maintains those to date and in good faith we have been doing that on the fairways to try and maintain for our homeowner's a nice looking subdivision, but we would still like to for the record get those resolved and have specifically stated who is to maintain and upkeep the seepage beds. Whether that is Ashford Greens Homeowner's Association Board, whether that is the golf course recreation party, but we would like to get that clarified. I put a packet together and I don't have all the information I wanted to have because we were brought onto the agenda quicker than I. thought we would be, but I have attached three of the easement agreements, two of which specifically indicate it's the Ashford Greens Association and/or the Cherry Lane Recreation. I don't know what entity the trailing recreation represents, if that is the golf course or -? It is? Okay. But, that is one issue that we would like the city to review and make a decision on as to responsibilities for those upkeeps and then once that is made - if that does fall back to Cherry Lane - to the Ashford Greens Association we would continue to maintain and upkeep those. But, we would like to see if that's possible to share that or have the golf course participate in that in some shape or form. Our second comment relating to the upkeep of these is in part related to our second portion of our letter that we sent in, relating to this trespass ordinance. Currently, we have most of our subdivision which backs up onto the golf course. Many of the residents there, when the course is not in functioning hours will walk on the course and do kind of relaxing type of activities on or near the course and that is a concern of ours as an association that the trespass ordinance being public ground prohibit our use of that. But, also in relation to the seepage beds, we feel that we would need to make sure that we - if we are penned to maintain these that we are not in violation of the trespass ordinance should it be approved and go into effect and that the easements would constitute one of the agreements, which is an exception to the trespass ordinance. But, these are our basic concerns and in addition to some of the general maintenance of the course, which we feel is in some cases less than adequate. This year has seemed that the course has done better than average to maintain and upkeep the general irrigation and the weeding has seemed a little bit better this year. There are still areas that we have received numerous complaints in and I have provided some photos of some of the easements where golf cart access to Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 14,2004 Page4of8 streets from the course pose a bit of a concern as far as visibility and as far as appearance, the weeds and the lack of any type of landscape pattern is a concern to our homeowners and to our board. I guess we would like to have the city verify and review the easement agreements for all six phases at Ashford Greens and make a finding on that in some shape or form to the effect of who is to maintain those seepage beds and upkeep those for the light maintenance portion. It's pretty specifically stated that ACHD will do the heavy upkeep on all beds, but we would like to have that from the city in writing as far as who is going to be taking care of that in the future. Secondly, we would also like to voice our opposition to the trespass ordinance as a community and as a subdivision on that course and also the issue related to the upkeep of the course, seepage beds on the course, should the trespass ordinance go into effect. I have a package here that I have put together indicating the locations of the seepage beds. I have also provided some photographs of a few of the golf cart accesses and their current condition as of yesterday verses an easement and an access to the course that we maintain. The subdivision is kept in a relatively high degree of maintenance. We do a lot of mowing and we do a lot of upkeep on the common areas of our subdivision and we would only expect that the golf course maintain similar standards to - Nary: If you want to give that to the Clerk he can make copies for us so we can get that later. Anything else? T. Brown: Those are the main issues that we wanted to present to you and hope that you would be able to expedite this for us and at least give us a course of direction. As I have said, we have done the maintenance to date on them and if that falls back in our lap again, we would just need to continue to do that, but we are hoping that the golf course would also be able to participate in that and in the event that we are responsible in the future that they are a willing participant with us in helping us get those things maintained at the peripheral areas of the course are kept up to standards that our homeowner's are maintaining their property. One last thing is there a way that we as an association can review the lease agreement between the city and the golf course? Nary: It's a public records it can come out (inaudible). There is a number of agreements, not just one, but you can come ask the city clerk tomorrow during normal business hours and file a request and they can get copies for you. T. Brown: Okay, that would be appreciated. In the future for contact and follow up on issues related to this who would best be named for that? Who would we contact for that? Nary: Follow up for what? T. Brown: Any of the information that we are looking to receive. Who would it be? Would it be given through another --? Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 14, 2004 Page5of8 Nary: Probably through the Clerk's Office. T. Brown: Okay. Nary: Also, as the Clerk reminded me, some of the information on the golf course is also available on the website. So, you may be able to get a lot of the information you are seeking on the golf course from that without having to come down and ask for a record's request. You might just be able to get a lot of that from there and just print it off the website. T. Brown: Okay. Being a little naïve in how your Council works, is there an anticipated date that you would have some conclusion on the easement agreements as far as responsibility? Nary: We are going to discuss that here in just a few seconds. Council, do you have any questions for Mr. Brown? Bird: I have none. Nary: Thank you very much. T. Brown: Thank you. Nary: Sir? Hiteman: May I make a few comments? Nary: Certainly. Hiteman: My name is Dennis Hiteman. I was the first chairman of the advisory group for James Place at Ashford Greens. I have done quite a bit of investigative work with another member of our James Place community and we were one of the first ones to find out about the plat map. We found out that there is three plat maps that represent James Place and none of those plat maps mention any maintenance of the drainage ponds. There is other ones and one that is involved with James Place is the one down along Black Cat Road. The plat maps for some of the other ones - there are only two of them as I just stated, say that Ashford Greens is liable to maintain the drainage ponds. The other ones are very loosely worded. I have tried to get from the developer where the agreements are or just what they state and he has not answered my question. We feel that Tallamar Boulevard and the other streets would lead to the golf course are as much for the city benefit as they are for our benefit. We are having to maintain all the streets going into the golf course, plus the drainage ponds and that puts quite a burden on the over 55 community that live in James Place and our dues have gone up considerably. The first two years the developer paid to Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 14, 2004 Page60f8 have maintenance. After that he turned it over to Ashford Greens and I think it would be pertinent for the City Council to give us a little relief or try to work it out somehow where we are not liable for all the maintenance of those ponds. Thank you for your attention. Nary: Thank you. Council, any questions? Bird: I have none. Rountree: I have none. Nary: Did anyone else want to make any comment before we have some discussion? Council is there -? No? Okay. It sounds to me like I guess that part of the question Council is do we want Mr. Nichols to provide us some info before we take some action of any sort? That seems to make the most sense to me, but I don't know what everyone else is thinking. Rountree: Mr. President? Nary: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: Yeah, I would like some guidance in terms of what the documentation says. I don't know if any of this is covered. Apparently, some is covered on the plat; some is covered under some gentlemen agreement understanding. I don't know if any of it is covered in development agreements that pertain to the various phases of the Ashford Greens Subdivision, but I guess the comment I will make is that I don't believe that this should be a burden to the golf course operators, personally, because I don't believe they even understand the situation related to those ponds. So, I think it's something that we need to work through with the homeowner's association and ACHD to understand where those are, who owns them. I suspect the question about the cart paths - I don't believe the city owns that property, I suspect there are probably common lots, platted lots in those subdivisions. I don't know that, but if they are I assume that the subdivision is responsible for common areas and those sorts of things. So, there is a lot of questions that I have got as to who goes where with this. Wardle: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I would agree. I would like to see a little more information in terms of the drainage ponds and the maintenance of those to allow us to make an informed decision. The one thing that I did hear from Mr. Brown was two other comments on different issues and I will say that comments on the maintenance of the course is an ongoing discussion that we have been having within the Council and the community and we can certainly take those comments and Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 14, 2004 Page70f8 integrate those into our search for those standards. So, I didn't want you to think that we weren't taking into consideration. In addition, the trespass ordinance, we have not had our final hearing on and we will integrate those comments and then also provide public notice for when our next hearing on that would be. We also invite everyone to come and make their feelings and their opinions known. Nary: I guess I would agree with all the comments, you know, it sounds to me that probably between the plat and the varieties of different CC&R's and the like that have come across and on Ashford Greens this is probably not the easiest thing to unravel, but I think it's still falls to you, Mr. Nichols. If two weeks is reasonable at least to get some idea of where we are at. It may not be enough to answer all the questions that have been raised today. Nichols: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Mr. President, Mayor and members of the Council, Brad furnished to me some documents that has been - I think it has been more than a month ago or thereabouts and the older I get the shorter my memory is. There are some documents that just simply don't speak to the light maintenance at all. We did not review, that I recall, CC&R's. We did not review development agreements, but about the time that Ashford Greens development was in place, historically the development agreements were not at least in our experience, what we have seen were not well done; often they were drafted by the developers, instead of the city. We can certainly look for those to see what's there, but I think the fact that these ponds got onto the golf course property and the documents I looked at didn't indicate any sign off on the part of the golf course people, would indicate that that we're not likely to find much more, but we will look. If we can get all the documents together in a week to where I can have an opinion to you by the 28111, I'll try to do that. We more or less took an equitable approach to it and that is that if subdivisions had to have put these within the subdivision, they would have to of had maintained the light maintenance on them then. So, from that standpoint, we were looking at either do it on this lot or you do it over here, sort of a thing. So, that was one. The other on the equity side we also looked at the fact that there would be more lots in the subdivision, means there is more folks to pay those dues to help offset the cost of that maintenance. So, we didn't sort of look beyond just the four corners of the documents because there wasn't a whole lot there, but we can go back and look at additional documentation. Mr. Berg can have his staff look to see what we can find for development agreements in Ashford Greens and we can contact - probably just as easy to contact a local title company for the CC&R's. Mr. Brown certainly can give us a copy of theirs, but there may be others throughout the developments and so we will see if we can ferret out some more information, but there just wasn't a whole lot to look at before. Meridian City Pre-Council Meeting September 14, 2004 Page8of8 Nary: Well, if anybody can put the ruebics cube back together, I think that sounds like the best thing that we can do at this juncture. Council, if it is all right then, maybe two weeks we will put this back on our Pre-Council agenda for discussion. So, if you want to come back in a couple of weeks, at least we will give you some idea of what we were thinking and what direction we think the city should take in this issue and at least give you something based on the opinions that we have from our legal counsel and our staff. I think that's the best we can do this evening at least. As Councilman Wardle said, the issue on the trespass ordinance is not before us tonight. When it is, certainly that's an opportunity to provide further input. The last draft of the ordinance might have addressed some of the concerns that you have raised, maybe not all of them, but some should be raised about access of property owners that are adjacent and their maintenance of their own properties and the like. So, some of that stuff may have been resolved, but you certainly have an opportunity to tell us that again - we are going to discuss that ordinance at some point in the future. Council is there anything else? No. Okay, then we have reached the end of our agenda. Bird: I move that we adjourn the Pre-Council. Rountree: Second. Nary: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn our Pre-Council meeting of September 14th. All those in favor say aye. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:55 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: TAMMY DE WEERD, MAYOR I I DATE APPROVED ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., CITY CLERK