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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 08-17 PreCITY OF MERIDIAN PRE -COUNCIL MEETING AGENDA Tuesday, August 17, 2004 at 6:30 p.m. City Council Chambers 1. Roll -call Attendance: X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary X Charlie Rountree 0 Keith Bird X Mayor Tammy de Weerd 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve 3. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2346(1)(f): No Decision 4. Discussion of Plumbing Code Ordinance: Place on Regular City Council Agenda S. Discussion of proposed amendments to the hearing Procedure nrelinanep referencing Resolution No. 206: Review Comments from ng and Zoning 6. Discussion of Abatement of Ordinance: Place on City Council 7. Properly Tax Appeal: Discussion *Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change depending on discussion. Please use the designated minutes as a guideline only. Meridian City Pre -Council Agenda — August 17, 2004 Page i of 1 All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian. Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings please contact the City Clerk's Office at 8884433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting. Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 The Meridian City Pre -Council meeting was called to order at 5:30 P.M. on Tuesday, August 17, 2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd. Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Bill Nary, Shaun Wardle and Charlie Rountree. Staff Present: Brad Watson, Bill Nichols, and Will Berg. Item 1. Roll -call Attendance: X Bill Nary O Keith Bird X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree X Mayor Tammy de Weerd Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda: Wardle: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move we adopt the agenda as published. Rountree: Second. Nary: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as published. All those in favor, say aye. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Item 3. Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67-2345(1)(f): Wardle: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: I move that we move into Executive Session per Idaho State Code 67- 2345(1)(f). Rountree: Second. Nary: It's been moved and seconded to move into Executive Session. Mr. Berg, will you call roll, please. Berg: Thank you Mr. President, members of the Council. Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 2 of 12 Roll Call: Wardle, aye; Rountree, aye; Nary, aye; Bird is absent. Rountree: I move that we come out of Executive Session. Wardle: Second. Nary: It's been moved and seconded to leave Executive Session. All those in favor say aye. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED. Item 4. Discussion of Plumbing Code Ordinance: Nary: Mr. Nichols, did you have any input? I think it was just for us to review and see if there was anything that we needed to do before we put it on the agenda. Nichols: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Nichols Nichols: Mr. President, members of the Council we had drafted some — at the request of Public Works Directors proposed amendments to the city's adoption of the Plumbing Code and I think that we finally got them in shape with -- the Public Works Director has approved these so I would view this as a housekeeping matter, primarily. I don't think it really changes much in the way of substance, it just does clarify some of the requirements and cites a specific code that the state is using in it's — Nary: Council, any questions or concerns, if not we can put it on next week's agenda? Rountree: I would concur with Bill and I don't have any concerns with it Nary: All right, we will do that. Item 5. Discussion of proposed Canning: President Nary, members of the Council and Mayor the amendment that you received in your packet was my first attempt at whereas clauses, those were fun and in the actual resolution, the exhibit and the exhibit really just codified the provisions that we had talked about at your last joint meeting with the Planning and Zoning Commission. When I had raised those issues, I had not tied it back to resolution 206, so what I did is I went back to that document that had already been adopted and made the changes that were necessary. Mr. Nichols reviewed it as did Mr. Nary and I think it got everything that we were Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 3 of 12 looking for just to run over some of them. In Section 1 there it just makes it clear that these also apply to the Planning and Zoning Commission. In Section 2, the only thing that was really changed was the length of time that people could speak and then we added a rebuttal time. In Section 3, just change it so all exhibits would be marked by the City Clerk and there is a second Section 3 there that should be Section 4. 1 just noticed that today and that's where the City Council and the City Council only has the ability to do an abbreviated hearing agenda and we talked about this at some length last January or February, I forget exactly when that was. But, that set forward the criteria by which you could do an abbreviated agenda and the one item that you had asked be added was to question the Clerk regarding additional written testimony to add to the record. Then just a general question of whether or not one of the Council members or Mayor objected to the item being placed on the abbreviated hearing agenda. So, I think we got all your concerns there and then from that point forward it sticks to resolution 206. So, those were the only changes that I found that were necessary. Once we get this done, I will redo all the kind of informational handouts that I had provided to you last time. I think we went over those in a fair amount of detail, so I did not get those back to you this time, but I can make those changes so it's consistent with the adopted ordinance and we'll start getting that into the hearing material along with the timer. Nary: Council is there any questions? The only one I had, Anna was this obviously has been discussed with the Planning and Zoning Commission; did the Commission have any particular concerns on the structure? Canning: President Nary the only time it was discussed with the Planning Commission was at the joint meeting you had and I think in all honesty it — I don't think they felt like it applied — I know that one of them spoke to me and said well these are just guidelines, we can do what we want. This is why we are — Nary: This is maybe why we probably are having it, but I guess I my only concern was is that simply passing an ordinance next week, so that at their next meeting, they are told by the way here are the new rules, might seem a little onerous if you are on the Commission. I guess I wanted to be sure they had an opportunity to come in and comment to us if they felt somehow that wouldn't have worked or why they don't think that that should apply to them and I guess that would be my only concern is making sure they are aware and have an opportunity. Now, I don't know whether or not that means if you would call — I think there was a meeting this week, isn't there on Thursday? Canning: Yes, there is and I could show those to them. We'd been talking about it as coming up and something that they need to be aware of and I think that most of them recognize that it's out there and I think they are willing to do kind of what they are told to do — maybe that's not the best approach, though, so I can raise it with them on Thursday. Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 4 of 12 Nary: Maybe if you wouldn't mind doing that and what I would suggest, Council, unless you would like to do it different is that maybe what Ms. Canning could communicate to them is that we have considered it, we have discussed this proposed procedural changes, which will apply to the Commission as well as to Council and that we are going to put it onto our agenda on our first meeting in September. So, that would give them some time to digest that and not feel like here we are going to tell you Thursday and next Tuesday all the rules change, but that we will put it on our first meeting in September and if they wanted to have some comment they'd have some opportunity to comment to us about it. Whether they want to come to the meeting or give it to us ahead of time in writing or something else, but that way it at least felt like they had some opportunity to comment about it. Canning: I will do that and one issue that has come up since then that I don't know if you want to codify it or not, there has been some discussion about man don't think I have ever heard this room this noisy, it must really be raining out there. Nary: It is pouring out there. Canning: Let's see, I had a train of thought going. The question of whether or who should be responsible for physically doing the timing of the applicants. Do we want to tag the Clerk's Office with that in ordinance or do you just kind of want to do it as policy? Rountree: Policy Nary: An ordinance seems like over kill to do that, but it seems to make the most sense to me and I guess the rest could comment, but the Clerk's Office would be the ones at least with the timer because I assume there is a control with this new timing system — the control I am assuming is someone has to set it and start it and all that kind of stuff and I would assume it would probably be the Clerk. That would be the most efficient to do it. De Weerd: Because when the red light goes off the trap door opens and you would have way too much fun with that. Nary: But, yeah, putting that in an ordinance seems a little onerous; I mean that seems a little overkill. Canning: Then if I could just ask the Clerk can I get that — can you change the agenda for the P&Z to add a discussion item for me? Nary: For Thursday. Canning: For Thursday night Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 5 of 12 Nary: Timing -wise, Council, is that all right? I just wanted to make sure they had an opportunity to tell us why that's not a good idea if they think it's not. Okay. Nichols: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Nichols Nichols: Mr. President, members of the Council just to clarify — I don't really think it's an ordinance, I think it's just a resolution adopting procedures. So, it could be easily inserted into the resolution or could be just simply — this is Will's clock and nobody but the Clerk's Office gets to touch it. De Weerd: Mr. President Nary: Madame Mayor. De Weerd: I think it would be best if you clarify the keeper of the clock, since it is a resolution it takes the guesswork out of it and I will tell you it's only because of experience that Anna or myself are even offering the suggestion. Nary: So, what you are suggesting, maybe, is that the section on time limits would have a 3.17 that would indicate that all timing would be done by the Clerk — city clerk or designee present at the meeting, something like that? De Weerd: Yeah, Nary: I guess that's fine. It's just a resolution and not an ordinance, I guess that's probably — but, if it would make you happy we will do that. De Weerd: Mr. President, I am so glad you are amenable tonight. It just — a perception thing too, if the question is out there, you know I have just have always felt that anyone but the clerk doing the timing has a gray area and more of a public perception type of thing, too. (Inaudible discussion) De Weerd: Yes, thank you. I am not always black and white, but this time black and white is good. Nary: Being the only one who is actually named in a letter to the editor of Mr. Thomas' paper because I was the timer, I understand that people sometimes perceive that there is more to it than just that you happen to be the one sitting here closer to the mic, but I don't see a problem and all that and I am sure that Mr. Nichols can modify and add a .17 that indicates that all the timing is done by the clerk, so that is probably fine. Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 6 of 12 Nary: Last item is property tax appeal. Are we done with that? Did you have anything else, Ms. Canning, I am sorry? Canning: Did you want me to bring it back before the first of September or just bring it back in resolution form for you on the first of September? Nary: Yes, unless they have some real objection that you think we need to have more of a discussion the first of September, I think we would plan to put it on the agenda as a resolution the first meeting in September. Rountree: -- seventh Canning: We don't have a fifth Tuesday this month, do we? Nary: The fifth Tuesdg this month, I think, is just a hearing on the budget. So, it would be September 7t . Is there anything else? Canning: No, sorry, sir. Nary: Thank you. Berg: Mr. President just following through with some of the procedures of other cities, I know our staff does a pretty good presentation prior to the application or applicant testifying and I don't know and this is something that you may think about, but with that kind of a presentation do they need 15 minutes to carry forward their presentation and what I am saying is sometimes they feel like they have to do the 15 minutes even though we already had a presentation on that. So, I guess I am just throwing out if we do a 10 -minute presentation, do you want to hear another 15 minutes of their presentation? Some order of other cities is that the applicant does the presentation; the staff has no opinion whatsoever or gives any opinion unless asked. I think we do it very well by giving unbiased opinion, but what you really hearing is a presentation of 15 minutes, plus whatever the staff does and sometimes that can be lengthy. Just throwing that out. Nary: Council? I just look at it, you know, it's their money, it's their time, it's their project they want to develop and I think, I guess for me, 15 minutes is not that big of a deal. I mean, realistically, the staffs presentation isn't on the merits of the project as much as the compliance, the nature of the project in relation to other projects, the compliance with the code and those types of things and you know that's their selling job as to why this is good. I think most of the people that we see have recognized over time that brevity gets rewarded a lot more than windy presentations, so, I guess I am not that adverse to 15 minutes for somebody that wants to do something. Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 7 of 12 Rountree: I agree. Give them their due. Nary: Okay, moving on the last item on property tax appeal. Item S. Discussion of Abatement of Dangerous Buildings Amended Ordinance: Nary: 1 think Item 5 might be a little longer discussion, but I was anticipating Item 6 is kind of the same. Isn't that a housekeeping measure as well? Nichols: Pretty much, there are just a couple of issues on that one. Nary: Maybe we will do that real quick, Mr. Nichols and then we will just concentrate on the hearing procedure one next. I think there was an issue of making sure the Building Official was the designee under that dangerous building ordinance, but I don't know, maybe there was something more specific than that. Nichols: I think that was the issue that we needed to make sure that we had from you. When we first looked at amending the uniform code for abatement of dangerous buildings, we had some direction from the Council that Public Works Director might be the appropriate person — the code itself generally says the Planning Director and that doesn't really work in terms of Planning Directors generally are not familiar with building code issues and this typically involves building codes. Since the Public Works Director oversees the Building Department, which includes the contracts for inspection services, we felt that it was — my understanding from the Council was it was more appropriate to have the Public Works Director in that role even if the Public Works Director did not have building experience directly because of the oversight of that department. What we can do is you can designate who the Building Official is; if you want it to be somebody other than the Public Works Director, we need to just say that and change this ordinance and bring it back to you. Nary: (Inaudible) currently proposed in front of us, it does designate the Public Works Director, but I think the discussion was in whether, Council, since we will have an actual Building Official as an employee after October 1st? Then that might be the more appropriate person as the designee, but we could certainly do — leave it as the Public Works Director or designee, couldn't we as well? Nichols: Mr. President, members of the Council I believe you could do that or you could just make it the Building Official and then have the effective date October 1st. Nary: Council, do you have a preference for either one of these? Madame Mayor? De Weerd: If Brad has any comments. Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 8 of 12 Watson: Madame Mayor, members of the Council. I am a little unfamiliar with this. I did read through it and saw that the designation had changed. No, I am not going to muddy the waters. There were some other suggestions. Actually, they weren't real far out there. So, nothing constructive. Rountree: Mr. President if put (inaudible) or designee, whatever structure organization that occurs then that can be accommodated without changing the ordinance. Nary: Certainly. Preference, Mr. Wardle? Wardle: That's my preference, Mr. President. Nary: So, I guess, Mr. Nichols the direction is to read Public Works Director or designee or you could even say designated Building Official. I guess either one of those would be adequate language to make it clear that there is a staff person De Weerd: That is vague. Nary: Clearly vague that somebody on the staff is responsible Nichols: Madame Mayor, members of the Council I will do my best to come up with some language and it won't be the playing director or the finance director, so that we will get it straight. Nary: Last Item and then we will return back to Item 5. Item 7. Property Tax Appeal: Nary: Did we win already? I think this is Ms. Kilchenmann's desire to us to make a decision on going forward, isn't that correct? Kilchenmann: Well, I gathered more information last week and I am going to — Bill can probably add to this, too, when I am done, Mr. Nichols because I think Chris in his office also did some phone calls and I discovered that there is no good answer to this problem and also in talking with Mr. Nary that even if we were able to refinance, that doesn't necessarily guarantee that the property tax will be lifted because they haven't formally made that decision yet as far as Ada County and Boise. Councilman Nary also pointed out that the amendment option that has been discussed that the trustee was willing to do that for Boise because they took an interest in the (inaudible) for a parking garage, so that might not be the best option for us. The other thing I thought Mr. Nichols might know if this is possible as collateral if we offered cash verses the building because we do have the cash if that would make him more likely to agree to the amendment; but our Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 9 of 12 situation with Boise is when they refinanced even if they had to pay property tax they were better off because they got a lower interest rate, but in our case if we refinance and we still have to pay property tax we would be worse off because the interest rate will be worse. So, now I will turn it over to Mr. Nichols. Nichols: Madame Mayor, Council President, members of the Council I think the — what you are (inaudible) there is a lot of unknowns and I think the question has to be asked of the issuers of the certificates of participation. Are you amenable to amending the lease to read in this fashion? And get an up or down answer, so that we have an idea as to what conditions, if any, they would place on that, what additional security they would look at. The indications I got from Bond Council initially was the trustee would look to the rating bureau to see if the rating bureau was acceptable with the amendment and that might be all that was required. So, I think it was just a matter of whether you want to spend the money to have Bond Council begin the process of seeing what it would take to make the amendment and to some extent you are right you are taking a flyer that it may or may not result in elimination of the property tax on the Police facility because that decision won't be made until November on the (inaudible) area language changes — the Boise City did on the airport facility, so I think if you — my advice would be it would be money well spent to move forward to at least find out from the trustee what's it going to take to make that amendment and see if some reasonable conditions can be negotiated because as I understand it, it would not under those circumstances would not necessitate a refunding issuance, it would just be an amendment. Kilchenmann: That is correct. So, it would just be however much time it took him and his discussions with the bank. Nichols: And the time spent to make the amendment itself. Kilchenmann: Yeah. And we still also have the option out there of calling the bonds in 2007, no laughter. This isn't funny. De Weerd: Sorry, just looking at the turnoff list. Nary: We were digressing, sorry. Mr. Wardle? Wardle: Mr. President. Stacy if we begin down this road does this give us any guarantee of what kind of rate we are going to have verses if we start this today, does it help us — I know the rates are down now and may not be so in the future? Kilchenmann: Councilman Wardle the rates are actually on the way up. So, the interest rate we had on that preliminary schedule, it's probably only good for maybe three or four more days, so what Wells Fargo suggested is well, we could get that preliminary paperwork done so you had it ready if you needed to go with it, but the downside is that we have to pay Bond Council to do that, so again we Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 10 of 12 are taking a risk. We'd pay the Bond Council to get all this paper ready and then the interest rates are probably moving right now and if it doesn't work, so I am kind of with Mr. Nichols that if spent the money on trying to do the amendment first that might be — it's just a lottery. Rountree: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Rountree. Rountree: I would concur that we look at the amendment as a first action and see what kind of response we get from (inaudible) the bond issuer or the rating firm and move forward. I would also suggest that maybe the Mayor and this may be in the works through AIC to work with the cities in the state to see if there is some kind of legislative remedy that might be brought forth this next legislative session. It seems to me that (inaudible) paying taxes with tax payer's money and I don't know it just goes from one pocket to the other. I guess if we could pick Ada County's pocket back and get that money returned to us it would be fine, but it just doesn't make any sense to me that they are taking this position and I think they are the only county in the state that is doing it. I am sure there are other instances and other counties where it could be at least looked at. De Weerd: Mr. President. Nary: Madame Mayor De Weerd: I know our finance director had raised the legislative issue, too. During the AIC conference, I kind of heard when the other counties were taking a look at this as the counties are kind of scrambling to get additional resources to fund their services. I don't know why they want to rob Peter to pay Paul with the same tax payer dollar, but they are taking a look at what Ada County is doing as something they are interested in doing. The AIC did indicate that they would be following this and I think they have had, I don't know Mr. Nichols, do you know if they have had any additional discussions? I participated in one of them. Nichols: Madame Mayor, Council to my knowledge I don't know if they got it on their radar screen as a hot topic and there was a legislative committee meeting scheduled for September that's been moved to October, I think or November, so it may be a while, but I can certainly contact Ken Harward and get some indication as to whether there is a move of foot to do that and if so who is at the point of the effort. De Weerd: Thank you, they are certainly watching it. Nary: Madame Mayor, I know you periodically have meetings with Mayor Beiter of Boise because I know it obviously is a very topic to the City of Boise even is to the AIC. So, you know, it may be an issue, but it may be something that if the Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 11 of 12 AIC doesn't feel it's a statewide issue it may be something that Boise and Meridian could work collaboratively on. Just a suggestion. Rountree: Sometimes you have to make sacrifices. Nary: So, it sounds like the consensus is as Mr. Nichols suggested that we seek that opinion from the trustee about what it would take to get this done and we will still keep exploring that if that's going to work. Kilchenmann: Okay, I will contact our Bond Council. Mr. Nichols, would you prefer to do that or do you want me to do it? Nichols: Madame Mayor, members of the Council I am willing to contact Rick directly if you wish given that instruction to let's find out what it's going to take and you can start the meter running with that and at least go forward. Nary: We are at the end of our agenda unless there is anything else? De Weerd: Mr. President, I guess I would just ask if any of you are going to this Ada County Fair thing? Nary: The Sunday lunch they invited us to? De Weerd: Yes, right. The Mayor and City Council members VIP luncheon at the Turf Club. Rountree: (Inaudible) racetrack? De Weerd: Yes. Nary: I am not able to go this Sunday. I think Mr. Bird is still out of town Rountree: I am not planning on going. Wardle: I had a question that if they are holding a special luncheon for just the Meridian City Council or whether it's all — Nary: I went last year and it was — 1 think it wasn't the City of Boise, but I think it was the other smaller cities, I think, with all of the Commissioners and the Fair Board and it was just a very nice and formal lunch to just let us know what was going on and that was about it. But, I just couldn't do it this Sunday, but I don't think it's just for us as far as I knew; at least it wasn't last year. De Weerd: I am bringing my family. Wardle: That was my next question is that is it a family event? Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting August 17, 2004 Page 12 of 12 De Weerd: I called and asked because it is on a Sunday and I did ask if my family could come and they said yes. Wardle: Younger families, such as mine? Let me double-check my schedule. I would like to go and will try and make it. Rountree: Is that during the fair? De Weerd: Yes, it is. I think the fair starts on Saturday. So, if you'll let Peggy know, Shaun. Rountree: (Inaudible discussion). Nary: Anything else? Wardle: Mr. President. Nary: Mr. Wardle. Wardle: Mr. President hearing nothing else, I move that we adjourn the Pre - Council meeting. Rountree: Second. Nary: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn the Pre -Council. All those in favor say aye. ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:55 P.M. (TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS) APPROVED: 407></,�_/ �94- DATE APPROVED OF MER/, "', ti �,W)Rq rF0 4 819MEST WILLIAM G. BERG, IR., CITY O ,,