August 5, 2004 P&Z Minutes
Meridian Planning & Zoning
August 5. 2004
Page 60 of 108
Borup: Motion and second. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
Borup: All right. Thank you. Appreciate everyone being here tonight. We are going to
take another short break.
(Recess.)
Item 9:
Public Hearing: RZ 04-008 Request for a Rezone of .23 acre from R-8 to
proposed O-T zone for Larry Knopp by Larry Knopp - 713 North Meridian
Road:
Item 10:
Public Hearing: CUP 04-019 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
retail and professional office use in an existing building in the proposed 0-
T zone for Larry Knopp by Larry Knopp - 713 North Meridian Road:
Borup: Okay. We'd like to reconvene our meeting this evening and start with our next
project, Public Hearing RZ 04-008, request for rezone of .23 acres from R-8 to proposed
OT zone Larry Knopp at 713 North Meridian Road and Public Hearing CUP 04-019,
request for a Conditional Use Permit for retail professional office in an existing building
on the same property. And we will open both public hearings at this time and start with
the staff report.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This property is
adjacent to the Old Town area on Meridian Road in what is shown as Old Town on the
Comprehensive Plan. The property is outlined in black. It's located right here. It is
directly across from the Farmers and Merchants Bank building that is currently under
construction on the east side of Meridian Road. City Hall where we are here tonight is
on this lot kitty-corner to the northeast. The lot is .23 of an acre. It's currently zoned R-
8, as are the surrounding properties. The request is to rezone the property to Old
Town. The Old Town zone does comply with the Comprehensive Plan designation,
which is also Old Town. Before us tonight, in addition to the rezone, is a Conditional
Use Permit. The Conditional Use Permit is for an office retail remodel of the existing
home. This is an aerial photo. The existing home sits on this lot right here. The
surrounding uses to the north. There is an existing residence that's still in residential
use to the north. To the south is the American Legion Hall. I mentioned the Farmers
and Merchants Bank project. And, then, in the rear are additional existing residences.
The Conditional Use Permit is requested to convert the existing home to office retail, as
I mentioned. The Conditional Use Permit is required in the Old Town zone for all office
and retail uses. What you see before you is the proposed site plan. Meridian Road,
again, is on the right-hand side of the screen. This area here is the existing home. This
area here is the existing garage. And this area is the proposed expansion of that
garage. The rear of the property is proposed for the parking. This is an elevation. The
top is a rear elevation. The bottom is a front elevation as you see it from Meridian
Road. You can see the elevation of the existing house and the converted garage. They
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August 5.2004
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are proposing to connect it by a breezeway to avoid requiring a planned development
on -- for two separate structures on a lot. They are joining them to make a single
structure. This would be the side elevation. You can see the front of the existing home
facing Meridian Road here. And this is the expansion area for the existing garage that
would be converted to office or small retail. The main issue on this project is the
question of how close should the building be allowed to be built up against Meridian
Road. We know that Meridian Road will be widened in the future. The exact right of
way needed is somewhat in question. We have currently -- we are currently
undertaking the Downtown Transportation Management Plan, as discussed with the
Commission last week. Within about six months we will have the final answer. In the
meantime, staff feels that we need to preserve the corridor for what could be future
expansion of that area. I'm going to go back to the site -- or the aerial photo for a
second. I did go out and take a look at the existing setbacks of homes along the street.
They are fairly consistent with the typical setback line approximately 28 feet measured
from the back of sidewalk. That same point is about 23 feet from the existing right of
way or 18 feet from the right of way as requested by ACHD at this time. Staff is
proposing that that new addition to the structure only extend forward as far as that
building line that's already established along the street, as described, in order to
preserve that corridor for future road widening. As an altemative, if the applicant does
wait until that transportation plan is done to pull building permits, we would allow them
to move that structure to within ten feet of what is, then, determined to be the right of
way line and there is a condition proposed currently to that effect. I would mention that
the historic Preservation Commission has looked at the existing home. This is the
home as seen from Meridian Road. You can see the house structure here and the
existing garage. Same two structures from just a different view. This is the rear of the
property. There is a carport on the back of the garage. This is the back of the home.
And turning and looking at the neighbors to the -- to the west, you can see that there is
some landscaping that buffers between this property and the adjacent property. Under
the special considerations there are five items. The first one is the setback issue that I
just described. The second is the request for a revised plan. I did try and rectify the
proposed site plan with some measurements that I took on site and found several
discrepancies. I do believe the applicant has come with a new plan tonight, but staff
has not reviewed that plan at this time. There is a condition in here requesting a revised
plan at least ten days prior to the next hearing and they have somewhat preempted that
by submitting it tonight. The third item is signage, just clarifying that no free-standing
signs are proposed and none are approved for this project. The fourth item is
alternative compliance. Technically, with the residential use to the north, a 20-foot
buffer would be required along the -- its north property line. We are supporting the
proposed alternative compliance, which does have some buffer between the parking
area and the property line with trees and I don't know if the neighbor is -- to the north is
in the audience tonight, but would welcome any comments as to the appropriateness of
that. The Commission and Council did support a similar alternative compliance on the
Strickland Subdivision a couple of blocks north of here. The last item is the trash
enclosure. There is no trash enclosure shown on the site plan and we have asked that
one be included on the revised plans. With that, I will stand for any questions.
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August 5. 2004
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Borup: Questions from any of the Commissioners? Would the applicant like to make
their presentation?
Knopp: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Committee, my name is Larry Knopp, 355 South
3rd Street in Boise. I'm the architect representing the owner this evening. Hopefully,
you got a revised site plan that I tried to address the concerns and the staff comments
and I couldn't get it in any sooner, I had some issues that I had to address and get down
on the project, but I'd like to go through them item by item to address them, so that we
have covered those and, then, J guess we will get into the setback issue. But, first of all,
I'd like to just give you a history on what's happened with this project. As everybody
knows, it's across the street. It's a residence that's been rundown, neglected, not taken
care of. It was bought by the current owner. He analyzed the project to see what would
be the best direction, the best approach, the best use. We had the historic group out to
look at the house, because there was some thoughts that there was some historic value
in it. They went through it. The house really doesn't have anything. It has a little bit of
woodwork on the staircase, that's about it. I think one stain glass. Because we were
looking at that period of time of demo-ing it and doing something else with the site, but
after analyzing and putting some numbers together on it, the owner decided that
probably the best use at this point in time would be to go ahead and remodel the
existing structures that are on it. So, that's basically what we are proposing.
Borup: So, are there any of the staff's conditions you have any concerns on?
Knopp: No. We have met all the staff conditions and concerns, hopefully, in the revised
site plan that we show you with site drainage, trash enclosure, there is some -- also
some issues with Ada County Highway, they want certain improvements made in the
alley. They would like two feet additional of the right of way on. this property, some
landscaping, paving and, then, some radiuses improved on out to Broadway. So, we
are willing to do that also.
Borup: What about condition number three on the setbacks?
Knopp: That's the only one that's --
Borup: Okay.
Knopp: -- that's a concem and that we would like to try to get ironed out tonight. The
reason we are adding -- like I said, the house, mainly, is conducive to office use. You
have got a first floor and a second floor and there could be either one user in it or two
users on the -- one user on the first floor, one user on the second floor, and we
anticipate that it's office use, because it really doesn't lend itself to anything else. Now,
on the existing garage it's slab on grade, it's a single story, it's built five feet from the
south property line, we would like to extend that out to Meridian Road and the Ada
County Highway District, I have talked to them, they have got five feet of right of way. I
thought the original right of way was at -- behind the sidewalk, but it isn't, it's five feet,
and as you can see on the revised site plan, J have modified and changed it and I have
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August 5,2004
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also incorporated the new five feet that ACHD is asking for on the right of way and I
think, then, I'm coming out with the addition on the garage to -- and I'm allowing another
five feet behind that. So, I believe the intent of the project and what we are asking for
as far as the expansion on the garage, meets the Old Town designation and setbacks, it
gives us the area for streetscape, sidewalks, at that area of the garage. The rest of the
house stays the same, the setbacks farther, so we have a breakup down the
streetscape, which I think will turn out really nice. We are going to tear off the front --
the front addition has been -- which is this portion -- has been added on at some date
later than the original house. We are going to tear that off completely and put on a
single roof entry, covered entry, to add character to it, but also -- which is this entry.
Restore the existing windows that are framed in up above on that addition and redo the
entire house, siding, trim that's needed, new roofing, and bring the house up to decent
standard as far as the construction goes. So, from what I can see, the only thing is the
front setback criteria on the garage. And I guess what we are asking and the approach
that the owner is taking is that all the square footage that he can get out of it, so he can
lease -- and also I'd like to cover the parking. I have set up the parking so that the
house is office parking and the garage and the garage addition would be more of a retail
and it meets it. So, the car parks that I have set for this project and what I have drawn
and the square footages, will meet the ordinance, city ordinance, or as far as the
parking requirements go. So, it wouldn't if the whole project was retail, but it just -- it
won't happen and I think the staff did a good job by stating that the parking and the use
has to match and be consistent and that's what we are trying to do. So, tt)e setback on
the garage is all we are--
Borup: Maybe we can ask staff a question. Mr. Siddoway, the Meridian -- or the
Downtown Meridian Transportation Plan, is that -- what's the status of that?
Siddoway: The status is that the City Council approved the contract on Tuesday of this
week, just two days ago. We are waiting for a memorandum of understanding with
ACHD. As soon as we receive it, the contract will be signed and executed. Our kickoff
meeting is scheduled for the 17th of this month and should be completed within six
months of that start date.
Borup: So, Larry, it looks like you have anticipated an additional ten feet beyond the
existing right of way.
Knopp: That's true.
Borup: Is that a -- I'm assuming we have got a 50 foot right of way there now or what is
the existing?
Knopp: It's 35 feet on the east, I believe, and 30 feet on the west.
Borup: So, we are 65 now?
Knopp: Right.
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Borup: You're saying another ten on the west?
Knopp: ACHD is asking for an additional five on the west.
Borup: And you have allowed for another five just in case you're saying?
Knopp: That's correct.
Borup: Well, that's what they were saying right now, but they haven't put their input into
the plan yet.
Knopp: ACHD?
Borup: Yes.
Knopp: Yes. They have reviewed it.
Borup: No, I mean -- not in your plan, in the Downtown Transportation Management
Plan. I mean -- yeah, we are talking about something -- did they -- how about across
the street?
Knopp: Farmers and Merchants?
Borup: Yeah. Did they take any additional right of way there?
Knopp: No. Not that I know of. That's what ACHD told me when I called them and
talked to them, because I have had some extensive conversations with them because of
this issue.
Borup: So, what you have allowed for here would allow a maximum of 75 feet?
Knopp: Correct.
Borup: Okay.
Knopp: And I guess the approach that I'm taking and that the owner is taking, because I
think you have got the comments from ACHD, they haven't established it in their five
year plan and in their reply back on this, they think it's more in the 15, 20 year range,
and I had talked to Mr. Siddoway and I had indicated to him that if it's ten years from
now, that it gets done even at that. What we are asking for is that the owner have the
right to receive rental income on that additional square footage and use of the property
for that ten years or whatever it is, before and if whatever happens with North Meridian
Road.
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Borup: Well, that -- yeah, that may be a good point, but, then, you're also tearing down a
retail building and he's going to expect to be compensated for that, rather than bare
land. Whereas planning for it now would avoid that.
Knopp: Well, I think I'm meeting the code and the ordinance right now with the setbacks
and, like I said, I have had extensive talks with ACHD and to the best of my knowledge
what Meridian is wanting or trying -- the approach they are taking on North Meridian
Road and what ACHD is looking at and their approach to it, is two different things. And
I guess -- I guess also -- I'll let the owner address this, but I mean if -- if the City of
Meridian or whatever is anticipating that it's going to go through and it's going to be a
shorter, rather than a longer term, then, probably buying that additional right of way or
whatever is needed, needs to be done now, instead of, you know, five, ten years from
now.
Borup: Well, we have enough for -- more than enough for a three lane road right now,
don't we? Sixty-five, plus there was seventy-five?
Zaremba: Well, the issue, as Mr. Knopp mentioned, is the disagreement between
Meridian and ACHD about what that road's going to be. I serve on Meridian's
transportation task force and for the five years that I have been on it, we have been
telling ACHD that Meridian Road needs to be a four or five lane road and that they need
to stop focusing on Main Street and Meridian as a one-way couplet, each being one
way, so that they shove more traffic up and down Main Street. The recent marketing --
downtown marketing study that Meridian paid for has identified Main Street to be much
more pedestrian friendly. Well, in order to move the traffic off -- not only stop the
increase of traffic on Main Street, but move current traffic off of Main Street, Meridian is
going to have to bear more of the load and I'm assuming that the outcome of the study
that has not started yet is going to have to address that in a manner that Meridian is
going to have to -- Meridian Road is going to have to be widened something in the
neighborhood of four or five lanes and --
Borup: Four lanes would require how much right of way?
Zaremba: I don't know. That's a good question for Mr. Siddoway. But I -- the difficulty is
there are people at ACHD that have invested in this one-way couplet idea and are not
listening to the alternate suggestions that are being made. I'm sorry to put it that way,
but when you contact ACHD and ask them what their plans are, they do not include
what Meridian has been asking for for some time and -- you have identified that this is
an issue that, unfortunately, shouldn't be your problem, but it is.
Newton-Huckabay: How many square feet of retail space are we debating over?
Knopp: I believe the breakdown is on the front sheet as far as what we are talking about
square footage on the garage.
Borup: Eighteen by eighteen.
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Newton-Huckabay: Not on the whole -- no, whether -- if you get the additional front --
Knopp: I think there is like 200 square feet, somewheres around in that neighborhood.
Zaremba: Not to re-engineer a project, but is there any chance of adding that retail
space on the back of the garage, instead of the front?
Knopp: It won't give us the parking, then.
Zaremba: You would have to probably lose a parking space or two and that wouldn't be
adequate, then?
Knopp: Right.
Borup: Well, 75 feet is plenty for four lanes.
Knopp: Four lanes. That's what Meridian - or that's what ACHD has told me. Right.
Borup: What's their minimum for four lanes? Or do you know?
Knopp: No. But their -- their reply on July 14th -- and that's why I said, they weren't
taking any additional -- they only were asking for five feet on the west from us. They
had enough on the east and that was enough to give them their -- the four lanes that
they anticipate. But I think -- like I said, Meridian -- the City of Meridian has been
looking at five or six lanes, I think, and so, therefore, you know, we just -- we are at the
dilemma of -- you know.
Borup: That sounds like it gives you 70 feet.
Knopp: Yeah.
Newton-Huckabay: Maybe we should continue the Public Hearing and --
Knopp: And, hopefully, this project is an in-fill project that is cleaning up an existing
residence, turning it into something that is within the Comprehensive Plan and what Old
Town is and what you're looking for, you know, and pedestrian friendly and I'm not using
and asking for the total width of the lot, it's the width of a garage that -- you know, it's --
and it doesn't sound like much, but if you add what that income could be over the next
whatever years -- and I'm assuming it, because the improvement's not in the plan and,
Commissioner Zaremba, you probably know more about this, since you're on the
transportation board -- you know, J don't know what, but everybody I talk to says it's not
going to happen, you know, any sooner than ten years and ACHD is telling me that it's
15 to 20 years. Well, no, they are telling me 15 to 20 years and so -- and what we are
saying is is if we take that income for ten years, that's a pretty good return on what we
are asking.
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Borup: I understand. Okay. It sounds like that's the only issue. Thank you.
Knopp: Thank you.
Borup: Do we have anyone here to testify on this application? It looks like this is the
owner, I assume? Come on up.
Churchill: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, my name is Lance Churchill, I'm an officer
of Trustee Services, which is the trustee of the trust that owns this property. It's known
as Meridian Road Investment Trust. I'm speaking here tonight on behalf of the
beneficiaries of the trust. As mentioned, this building doesn't have any great historical
significance, basically, in its components, but when this property was purchased by the
trust last year we quickly learned from the Meridian Historical Commission this, actually
-- the original plan for the trust was, actually, to raze this property, but we were
approached by the Meridian Historical Commission, Tony Hickey, others, even the
previous mayor, over saving this property, because it actually is the home of Meridian's
first mayor when it was built in 1900. Mayor John Anderson lived in this property and
it's in the Anderson Subdivision, so they said please do anything possible you can to try
to save this structure and renovate it. So, rather than razing it, they looked at that and
determined, you know, what's the most cost effective way to go and they tried to,
obviously, maximize square footage available to make -- not razing the structure, but
rehabilitating the structure, which is going to cost over 100,000, a viable project. And
that's why we came up with the plan that's before the Council today and we believe that
it is a plan that creates, basically, a very attractive project from what was a neglected
and derelict house that fits well into the Old Town historical district. The issue, as you
know, is whether or not this several hundred square feet is worth fighting over or
whether it should be denied to the owners of the trust and as Mr. Knopp pointed out,
when you deal with 700 square feet of rentable space over decades, it adds up to a lot
of income potential in the property. But be that as it may, as I understand from
everyone I have heard from tonight and even from the Planning Commission, the plan
as proposed, with the extension of the garage, complies with all existing ordinances that
are in place today and complies with all existing setbacks in place today. We more than
comply with what ACHD wants. And to deny us -- or the trust legal use of this space
now, is, in fact, I don't think permissible and I think the attorney would probably agree.
We are complying with what the law says and, you know, I hate. to quote some of the
Commissioners tonight, but after listening to some of the previous debate,
Commissioner Zaremba said -- and I quote: The only duty of the Commission here
today is to see that a project meets the ordinances, meets all rules. Commissioner
Rohm said he wants to only see if a specific plan meets all the ordinances on the books.
That's what it does. We meet all the ordinances on the books. We don't think it's fair
that we should be penalized for something that may never come about or if it's going to
come about it's in ten years or 20 years down the road. If the city wants the property
now, then, take it now, do what it has to do, but don't deny us the use of the property for
20 years and, then, somewhere down the road say now we are going to take the
property from you. So, all we are asking for today is that the plan be passed as
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proposed, because we comply with all the laws on the books today and we don't want to
be asked to meet a higher standard than presently exists or some future standard that's
an unknown. Thank you. Any questions before I sit down?
Borup: Thank you. Do we have anyone else to testify? Okay. Commissioners? I
guess if there is any discussion it's really just on one item.
Zaremba: Well, I certainly like the project and appreciate the thought they have put into
it and I also agree that until ACHD comes around to what I suspect Meridian is going to
want, we do have to go based on what is the actual fact today, not what we hope is
going happen. I would support it anyhow. My only issue to get over is giving up the
extra space of the garage expansion.
Borup: Okay. Let's have a motion, then.
Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move we close the Public Hearing.
Moe: Second.
Borup: Motion and second to close the hearing. All in favor? Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Zaremba: I -- to answer Commissioner Newton-Huckabay's question about whether I'm
opposed to that or not, I would like to see staff ask that the garage not extend beyond
the current front of the other buildings. But I also agree with the applicant's point that
the conditions as we see them today don't necessarily justify that requirement. Does
staff have a further comment on that?
Siddoway: Mr. Chairman, Commissioner Zaremba, I could try and shed some light on
what the condition is -- what the ordinance is today. If you look for the minimum
setbacks in the Old Town zone in the ordinance it says see district regulation for
corresponding use proposed. The general interpretation we have taken is that there are
no specific set setbacks and that's why Old Town is always a discussion as to what the
setbacks should be. The setback is at the discretion of the Commission and Council
and is not specifically spelled out here. If you were to take an interpretation -- I'm not
necessarily proposing this, but that you go by use and say, okay, if it's an office use you
go with the L-O setbacks, well, then, it would be a 30-foot front setback and if you went
with a commercial designation for CoG, as the smallest at a 15-foot front setback, it
doesn't -- they say they are meeting the setbacks, but it doesn't say in here it's a five
foot setback, it just says see corresponding use. And so it is at the Commission's
discretion and I would just point that out. That's all. Thank you.
Borup: Okay. Do we need more discussion or are we ready for a motion?
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Zaremba: Well, okay, let me propose something for discussion, that we forward this to
the City Council leaving the staff comments the way they are and between now when it
gets to the City Council -- well, okay, the traffic management plan is not going to be any
closer to completion by that point, so there is nothing -- nothing new to be gained. Well,
I would take guidance from the other Commissioners, about how strongly anybody else
feels about the setback of the garage building.
Moe: Well, I guess my opinion, quite frankly, I would like to -- I would like to see it
somewhat go as per staff's recommendation, but, at the same time, I do think we are in
a situation where this could be years away and so, therefore, I don't know that we are
doing much more for the property owners by holding them back for that period of time.
So, I guess my opinion is I think that the special consideration by staff probably should
be taken out and we go from there.
Borup: Okay. Do we have a motion to that effect?
Moe: Are you going to make that motion?
Rohm: No. I think you're right on track, Commissioner Moe.
Borup: Is that a motion, Commissioner Moe?
Moe: I'm working on that, sir.
Borup: All right.
Moe: I'm not complete. Sorry. Go right ahead.
Zaremba: All right. And I will make a stab at it and if staff or other Commissioners
disagree with me, I will make an amendment. Mr. Chairman, I move that we forward to
the City Council recommending approval of Item 9 on our agenda, RZ 04-008, request
for a rezone of .23 acres from R-8 to proposed OT zone for Larry Knopp by Larry
Knopp, 703 North Meridian Road, to include all staff comments of their memo for the
hearing date of July 15th, 2004, received by the city clerk July 12th, 2004, with no
changes on the rezone.
Rohm: Second.
Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Zaremba: Mr. Chairman, I move that we forward to the City Council recommending
approval of Item 10 on our agenda, Cup 04-019, request for a Conditional Use Permit
for a retail and professional office use in an existing building in the proposed OT zone
for Larry Knopp by Larry Knopp, 713 North Meridian Road, to include all staff comments
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of their memo for the hearing date of July 15th, 2004, received by the city clerk July
12th, 2004, and referencing the applicant's site plan with a revision date of 7/12/04.
Staff comments to include the following changes: On page seven, under special
considerations, paragraph one can be deleted. On page eight, under conditions of
approval, paragraph three can be deleted. I believe that's the only changes.
Rohm: Second.
Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11:
Public Hearing: CUP 04-020 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
pharmacy in an L-O zone for Medicap Pharmacy by Larry Knopp - east
of North Ten Mile Road on north side of West Cherry Lane:
Borup: Next item is Public Hearing CUP 04-020, request for a Conditional Use Permit
for a pharmacy in an L-O zone for Medicap Pharmacy, again, by Larry Knopp. I'd like to
start with the staff report.
Siddoway: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. This is an
application for the Medicap Pharmacy. It is a proposed Conditional Use Permit for a --
about a 4,600 square foot retail pharmacy in Lynwood Plaza, which the Lynwood Plaza
project is outlined on the screen. It's on the north side of Cherry Lane. The Conditional
Use is required, because the proposed pharmacy includes a drive-thru and all drive-
thrus require a Conditional Use Permit. Retail pharmacies as a use are not listed in the
schedule of use control. Medical clinics are an approved use -- or a permitted use and
retail stores are a prohibited use. This is a retail pharmacy. To -- in order to clarify the
use and to gauge whether it's appropriate or not in this location, the applicant has
submitted a letter stating that the retail portion of this would be limited to
pharmaceuticals and related items, such as crutches or medical supplies, but that
general merchandise, such as groceries, toys, seasonal items, things you might see in a
Walgreen's pharmacy, for example, will not be sold. As such, staff does find that the
use is closer to a clinic than a retail store, in harmony with the intent of the L-O zone.
Special considerations on this project are on page four of the staff report. Before I get
to those, though, let me use this aerial photo to talk about surrounding properties.
Directly north of the project is Devlon Place Subdivision. Directly south is the Haven
Cove Subdivision. To the east is Sunnybrook Farms. And to the west is Sunburst. All
of which are zoned R-4. This site plan shows how they intend to develop the entire
property. The project that's before us tonight sits in this location. The project has been
platted into this configuration previously. That final plat has not been recorded or was
not at the time that I wrote the report. Until such time as that plat is recorded, the
project is only eligible for a single building permit and would just simply point that out.
Here is the project, zooming in on just that southwest corner. You can see the retail
pharmacy building in this location, the entrance off of Cherry Lane, and the associated
parking. One question that we have under special considerations is the project extent.