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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2007-07-05City of Meridian Historic Preservation Commission Meeting Meridian City Hall — Mayors Conference Room July 5, 2007 @ 5:30 P.M. Item 1. Roll -call Attendance: X Walter Lindgren — Chair X Frank Thomason X Tom Hammond — Vice Chair O Carol Harms X Steve Turney Members Present: Walter Lindgren, Frank Thomason, Tom Hammond, and Steve Turney Members Absent: Carol Harms Others Present: Will Berg, Madeline Buckendorf 2. Adoption of Agenda: Lindgren: As we've had a chance to review the agenda, would anybody like to amend? Thomason: Question. Do we need to amend the agenda to (inaudible). I would move to approve the agenda with the amendment of adding that one, I guess, number three. Lindgren: I would, whatever you want. I would suggest we just, we can approve the meeting minutes and then get into (inaudible). Berg: (inaudible) We can just put it right here. Adopted agenda, Number two (inaudible). Lindgren: That is my motion, to approve. Hammond: Second. Lindgren: All those in favor say aye. FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 2 of 27 Lindgren: Any other comments on the agenda? Ready to approve the agenda as submitted. We'll move on. Fair enough. 2. A. RFP/RFQ Survey: Lindgren: How about that? Madeline Buckendorf was going to come join us at our meeting today and she was nice enough to join us with short notice. Just to kind of bring her up to speed and maybe help us all understand why Madeline is here. One of the things that on our long-range goals we talked about doing is continuing the survey work and because we've been sidetracked with other activities and goings on, I'd like to really get that back on track and we have the ability to do it still as far as this fiscal year being over and even (inaudible). So the rote question I guess for the City's sake is how to procure that scope of services and are we still finding out, Mr. Berg? Would you like to address that or just -- Berg: Yes, I'd like to address what we're trying to do. Since we had an RFP or Q, which ever way it was. And since Emily doesn't want to perform that scope of work any more, it's our ability to go to the next person that we have interviewed for that and choose that person. The issue is that I have right now, that I'm dealing with, is finding all that information from that RFQ or P to give me all that stuff. We haven't had a change because Brad Hawkins Clark was the staff representative and I'm trying to search and find those new documents. I was assured by Wait and he thought that Madeline was one of the presenters previously so it would just be a matter of ranking that, that she's the next one, and hire her to fulfill that scope of work. Lindgren: So (inaudible) as long as that documentation (inaudible). Because with the (inaudible) Tom and Frank were here. Hammond: That's my recollection. Lindgren: Absolutely. And really what the goal is if the City is comfortable with that. That's the next step. We'd like to have (inaudible). Berg: Yes, Walt, I'll talk with our Purchasing Agent. That was what he wanted - - to make sure we have the documents in order and it's just a matter of trying to find those documents (inaudible). Lindgren: So did we assume for this discussion that those documents shouldn't be an issue? Just at least talk through some of the issues and maybe at least (inaudible). I'm not sure what for. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 3 of 27 Berg: I would probably just recommend that we have some discussion back and forth and interact with the scope of work and making sure that we're all on board. And then we're reasonably comfortable if we want to proceed as long as the documents are backing up our decision that we can move forward. Then we can move forward. But we want to make sure everybody's on board with the scope of work (inaudible). Lindgren: Exactly. (inaudible) and it's been our experience that in talking with (inaudible) help us understand what that scope is because (inaudible). With regards to, in terms of the finding (inaudible). One is we have X amount of funds available to do the work. That being the case, do you typically approach it from a (inaudible) basis or do you just say so many properties reviewed in this amount of time. So if you kind of want to expound on that for a little bit. Buckendorf: And I'm leaving this open to you. How this came about, why I got contacted, is right now I do a lot of work for environmental planners in Blaine County and right now a project has been, I have some work in July but the majority has been pushed into August. So I had a window of time to do it. The only concern I have now is we're talking about 50 properties to get the work all done to meet, what - - I've worked 25 years on this and worked in CLG projects a lot to get all the work done (inaudible) stretches it to the end of September and it's going to be very tight, nearly impossible, for me. if that's what you folks decide what to do, I have a recommendation of a group that might be interested that could do it for you. If you can narrow the focus a little bit and do it according to what your, what we think can be done with the allowed time and with the allowed cost, then I'd be interested in doing something for you. I just know I couldn't do 50 properties in that short a time. Lindgren: How many do you think you could? Buckendorf: Well, it depends on what you want. I can either intensively survey some of the eligible properties or begin the preparation of National Register level nominations. I could finish off the survey of the one section that didn't get finished, as I understand it, on Main to the Knotty Pine or where ever it was. Lindgren: Actually, that one did. Buckendorf: That got done. Or, if there's another area you need to finish up I could do whatever you need to get finished up. And also whatever works well for your preservation plan. My particular expertise, I did the Historic District in Caldwell, the National Register nomination of that. I live in the District, so that's part of a continuing involvement in that. But I also have a long extensive experience with agricultural and industrial buildings so if there's something you wanted to do with the feed store or any agricultural or agricultural industry -related buildings which I assume are under great threat in this area just as they are in Canyon County and all of Ada County. That's something I have a lot of expertise with. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 4 of 27 Lindgren: In terms of what - - give me like an example of how you're involved with that. Buckendorf: I did the, I don't know if you have (inaudible) but I did the Ada County Rural Survey that produced that book that came out from Ada County on historic rural properties in Ada County and it did involve at that time any of those structures that were within city limits but now several of the structures that are left standing are now within city limits or within the area of impact and so that's something I have a lot of expertise and background in. Lindgren: Can I - well, one of the things we're wrestling with is a little off the subject is but (inaudible) Will and I (inaudible) available time. (inaudible) But Jim has a property, a commercial property that is due to be rezoned to commercial property that we think will be coming up for annexation in the City of Meridian (inaudible). And it's a property just to the south of Highway 84. Buckendorf: It's the Ten Mile property? Lindgren: Yes. Buckendorf: Is it Sleepy Hollow? Lindgren: Yes. Buckendorf: I did all the work on it. Lindgren: I have a meeting set up with them Monday morning at 10:30 to have a cup of coffee and talk more about what we possibly can do. As far as some of those structures, my fear is, it's just too late. He's already got his eye on taking them down. In fact, talking with him (inaudible). I think I have the final report. (inaudible) Buckendorf: Oh, I did all the research for it. Lindgren: This is (inaudible) ITD then. And so I would like to visit with Jim and maybe if you have time it would be really interesting to get your take (inaudible) because I think Jim was interested in that. He came to, first to the Mayor, some months ago and said hey, I've got these structures. I don't know, at some point of the development of this property, but (inaudible). Salvage those, but from what I understand (inaudible) those concrete silos (inaudible). And so kind of at least get with Jim and say, hey have you thought of even incorporating that into a development? (Inaudible) these are assets to your project versus liabilities (inaudible). Try to encourage him to look at some of those structures in that respect versus (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 5 of 27 Buckendorf: I originally looked at them for Ada County in 2003 and at that time you were looking at a contributing district on Overland and making a little historic district on Overland because there were several barns there. There's a bomb shelter in one of the (inaudible) from the 1950's and just several interesting structures that you could put into a little district there. It is, I think, after doing more work the last few years, that barn could be considered eligible and because I did the Barn Again project for the Humanities Council all across Idaho and looked at six different communities from Preston to Coeur d'Alene. I didn't see another barn like it. Lindgren: (inaudible). Buckendorf: The double, it's called a concrete (inaudible) double silo there. There's one more on Black Cat that's in better shape but they are the only two I've seen in the state. And I've worked, starting for the State Historical Society in 1978, and I've never seen any other (inaudible) that are straight out of the Midwest and straight out of Portland Cement advertising the structures they could build as the railroad came through. Lindgren: Would that be like from the 50's so it would be old enough? Buckendorf: Oh, I'm sure they're old enough. I'd say they're post -World War II but they're old enough. We're over the (inaudible). Let's see, is it 2006? Lindgren: Concrete stayed double silo. Buckendorf: Concrete stayed. They're interlocking concrete blocks that are angled so that they fit together and then you put iron hoops around and that's how they're built. Then they have a little tiny, what was it, in the one on Black Cat it has a little tiny 5 HP engine that they put the grain, put it in the middle, shovel it in there and the engine would blow it up into each of the silos. And it's really, for the 1950's that was deluxe, that was deluxe. So anyway, it's an interesting history. Now this is my interest so I don't want to push it on you. I love residential districts. I've done all the other kinds of work. Everything from motels to churches to railroad depots to grain elevators in the middle of American Falls Reservoir but I just think that's such an important part of what makes Meridian interesting and unique and it just breaks my heart to see that agricultural heritage just (inaudible). Lindgren: Would you be interested, first of all, to sit and talk with him with us? Buckendorf: I will sit and talk. I have to say, 1 do this for a living and I'm self- employed and so, you know, I can only give away so much free time (inaudible) because I really love that place and would like to see it preserved. Lindgren: I understand. Shouldn't this board look at it as, I mean, we value your time and effort in anything you would be providing us. Mr. Berg, is there any way Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 6 of 27 that we can establish some sort of subcontracting scope for tasks like this? Because (inaudible) Berg: Maybe we should just see how it leads into initial conversation? Buckendorf: I could do it for free for one time but after a while I just can't afford to do that. But you know again it's up to you folks what the scope, what you want your scope to be and how this fits in with your Comprehensive Plan. Whether it's doing something in relation with the survey you've done, finishing out a portion of it, taking one or three or whatever, five of the houses or residences or buildings whatever you think that is important that is potentially eligible and working it up to a National Register level or you know, if you, I noticed you did, I briefly looked at your Comprehensive Plan and agricultural structures and agricultural industry was an important part. You can focus on that. So it's really up to you. Lindgren: Well, they are kind of two isolated issues but they obviously (inaudible). And I think in the case of Mr. Jewett it's one of those things where if you don't (inaudible) now (inaudible). But at least we have an audience. (inaudible). Like I said, he was the one that brought up contacting the Mayor to say hey, I've got this property, who do I talk to? I just need to get some sort of (inaudible). Buckendorf: That is interesting. Lindgren: Who knows if it's enough to - - but I think from our perspective is (inaudible). Make it look part of it. What a neat little (inaudible). Buckendorf: And it's name "Sleepy Hollow Farm." How could it get any better than that? Lindgren: Instead of putting a bunch of stuff in boxes. So, could you - - 10:30 Monday? Buckendorf: What's Monday? Lindgren: That's the 9th of July. I'm sorry, I just (inaudible) offered (inaudible). I know his office is over by the Fred Meyer on Fairview so there's a Starbucks that is right in the Fred Meyer building. West side of Fred Meyer's. (inaudible) Buckendorf: I know exactly where to go. That's another area, the Locust Grove area and all which was (inaudible) and that area is another rural area that's practically gone and anything you can salvage out of that would be important because that was a major fruit -growing agricultural railroad siding area and really the beginning of Meridian before this site, as you know. Lindgren: (Inaudible) before dairy even. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 7 of 27 Buckendorf: That's true. Lots of fruit. Lindgren: And I don't know how that is going to evolve, so. Maybe that's just something that we (inaudible). Buckendorf: And that'd make Dan very happy too. Lindgren: I know that Dan (inaudible). But I'd like to open it up to the group here real quick and do we, you know, (inaudible) I don't mind even if this scope takes smaller chunks. Maybe what it is (inaudible) time and value to just identify properties (inaudible). If it's obviously an old property, we can come back to it. But maybe it's more prudent for us to start identifying. I'd just like to throw that out and see what your thoughts are (inaudible). Hammond: I really like some of the things that Madeline has said about our history. One of the things I have books on is our agricultural and industrial. And absolutely right, cultural is a big issue. Personally I've been focusing on older homes and it seems like there's a big side of the picture there that personally I'm missing that is important to the history of Meridian. So 1 can see that as our Commission we need to move forward on the homes and continue progress in that direction. But also I think we need to wing out and capture that agricultural because it's going faster than we can save it. Buckendorf: It's probably the most endangered. And it is in Canyon County too. Hammond: Exactly. I didn't really capture that reality until it was just kind of stated and I realize that, you're right, I didn't know that there weren't that many of these silos, you know. And the importance of it. And how it goes together. All of a sudden there's a real story there. A very interesting story to tell and an interesting history so with that I really don't know what the recommendation - - I think we do need to move forward with continuing whittling away at historic homes and making that recognizable but also broadening our horizon and trying to capture this agricultural area, these gems that are at there that we really do want to protect. Perhaps Madeline, she could help us identify these items that we need to target as priority perhaps with this Commission and target those and we could even entertain suggestions from Madeline for consulting and her experience of perhaps the right place to put our energies. There're two influences on how we want to proceed here. I think one is time because I really feel like the end of our fiscal year is quickly approaching on us. And shame on us, we've got a late start on getting this process started. There are two things. (Inaudible) The reason I say fall back on the residential part of this, I should say this quarter, is because we know what we've got. It's easily identifiable. A surveyor could get out there and start taking (inaudible) tomorrow. Do you have, in terms of an inventory, do you have a pretty good sense Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 8 of 27 of, because I'm not sure I do, of what's out there in Meridian in terms of the agricultural - -. Buckendorf: A lot of it would be an area of impact which I know is always a no man's land but it'll be soon annexed to the City I assume. I haven't been out much except for 2003 and I only see a few intact farmsteads left. A few barns. I didn't take a close look along the tracks for what other agricultural, industrial is left. I know the Creamery is gone but you do have the mill and I don't know associated buildings from there. Lindgren: Is that something that could be inventoried fairly quickly as far as what is out there? And to kind of create a scope. Buckendorf: Yes. If you gave me boundaries of where you wanted me to do the work. Would you want it included in the area of impact or would you - -? Lindgren: Could we use that as a - - ? Hammond: That's a plan map, that colored one. Several colors, has the boundaries of our Area of Impact. Not that one. Lindgren: (inaudible) Where's the city limits? Hammond: Green. Lindgren: Because it's the same pattern as (inaudible). Buckendorf: Oh yeah, I did all the survey work in here already so I could look through it, see what's left and update it. Lindgren: I think it's important in identifying (inaudible). Hammond: I agree. Here's the reason I bring that up is, could we (inaudible) is that something you could identify and perhaps survey within that period of time? Buckendorf: Yeah, I think I could. Let's see, how far does it go down? To Chinden? Lindgren: It goes up to Chinden (inaudible) to the rim, right there. That's a rim down below, you see the green areas below? Buckendorf: Yeah. Lindgren: Those are, right now, referral areas. So they could drop down to Lake Hazel in our Area of Impact so I mean to say it's not completely tight (inaudible) industrial area (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 9 of 27 Buckendorf: Well, the only area I get a little worried about is CanAda to McDermott, down there between Chinden and Ustick. There used to be a lot left there. I haven't been on that stretch of road since 2003 so I don't know. And I did a lot of them on Ustick. Lindgren: I could e-mail you on that. Buckendorf: Uh-huh. Lindgren: And that way you could (inaudible). Buckendorf: And I have a map we did from 2003. We did a 2000, 2001, 2002, and then I did the multiple property nomination 2003. So, let's see, let me think about that. That's a pretty big chunk. I don't, I could do like a windshield survey and refer to that, back to that survey and say this place is still eligible, this is still eligible, this is not. That would be something I could do. Lindgren: So windshield is just, if I remember right, that (inaudible) less detailed (inaudible)? Buckendorf: And I could update what looked like; give you a list of what's eligible still. I could do that. Lindgren: Because the other thing we just need to consider is that the following fiscal year we could really attack this thing, the Comprehensive Plan. That's why I'm not necessarily, I want to see how we want to split, you know, break our time up here. Do we want to just stick with what we know today and just stick with the core and within a couple months we'll be in the following fiscal year? We could roll right into (inaudible) survey scoped with. Thomason: Mr. Chairman, (inaudible) I've heard you and Steve say yes, let's do the parallel track approach. We continue to whittle away on the historic homes also. I like this very much. This gives us another dimension. Lindgren: I'd approve the windshield survey to get us started and move forward on the houses and then the next fiscal year move forward on agriculture because that's an aspect we haven't captured. Buckendorf: Now my question is, when you're saying move forward on the houses, what are you thinking you want done? This fiscal year? Lindgren: I think it's a (inaudible) what your availability is and so we can back into the scope in a way. It's a little unorthodox what we're writing in the scope but I think that's okay. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 10 of 27 Buckendorf: Okay, let's just talk about ideas. And again, it's up to you. And if you want to do something broader than what I can do, I'll give you a name. But this is, if you wanted to pick, you know, three or four individually eligible houses or properties, whatever they are, that are specifically eligible that you haven't already done and let me work on that. I could do, in the time allowed, I could probably do three. To National Register level. Now, when I've done that - -. Lindgren: Sorry to interrupt. That's not what we have in terms of the surveys, (inaudible) National Register level. Buckendorf: If they're eligible, that means they're eligible to the National Register of Historic Places. That's what Emily's told me. The individual properties. Now if you want to do them for a more intensive survey of one step or a National Register nomination; either one of those I could do. With an intensive survey you don't have to get the owner's approval or go through all those steps. Lindgren: Right. I just want to make sure I understand the difference. Because what she's done is, I call it windshield survey. Buckendorf: Reconnaissance. Lindgren: Reconnaissance survey. But that's not what you're talking about. Buckendorf: No. An intensive level is just up to the National Register nomination. It really is the basis for the nomination except you don't have to get all the owner approval and all that kind of information with it. You could do National Register if there're not going to be any problems with the owner or the owner would love it right away. That's one possibility. Otherwise, I'd take a small - -. Another possibility is, say, to take 10, a couple more blocks, maybe 10 structures that need to be surveyed that haven't yet within your core. These are just ideas off the top of my head. Another possibility is to do industrial/agricultural buildings within city limits. And I don't know Zamzows, what their feeling would be about a more intensive approach to get tax advantages but that, the grain elevator and all that area is eligible. Emily included that and that's something I could do. And then any other that are adjacent. I don't know what's left right along the tracks in that corridor. Lindgren: Not much. I think it'd be intriguing to take some of these (inaudible) and take them to the next level. (Inaudible) serious look at getting additional structures nominated. Buckendorf: It would take nothing to nominate them. Lindgren: I agree. Really you've almost done the bulk of the work, okay. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 11 of 27 Thomason: We could do the (inaudible) Pine, just for example. The telephone building. Lindgren: Possibly. Thomason: Two or three maybe. Buckendorf: I could take three. I don't think I could do any more than that. Thomason: I would say two, two would be - - just thinking out loud. (inaudible) This is back in September of 2006 but Emily had a couple (inaudible) Knotty Pine she identified as possible, the 134. The 134 is in there. Buckendorf: Oh, that's a beauty. Thomason: So maybe that's something that we could get looking at. So there might be a couple ideas. (Inaudible) That's the one right there. (Inaudible) Main Street. Buckendorf: That must be, yeah. Thomason: It's (inaudible). So if you want to take that too, okay. Berg: Can I make a copy of that? Thomason: Sure, sure. And I think in terms of value, yeah, just going around surveying properties just to say yeah, you told us what we already knew. That's (inaudible). I think personally I like the value of saying (inaudible) let's take these three. . Buckendorf: Maybe if we get enough on that north end of the street in one collection we could build a case around it for it being in one like so-and-so addition of the 1930's to make a little historic district if you want. Lindgren: So in terms of that, that's something maybe eventually the Council would have to adopt. Buckendorf: And if we can do it in Caldwell, you can do it here. Lindgren: Oh, I'm not (inaudible). Design review process and everything. Buckendorf: Well, the design review came later. But I tell you, as soon as you possibly can I'd get design review in. Whether if they fight against it or not, you need it. And we got it in Caldwell and it's still a fight. Even with design review we get people wanting to put timber outside of their houses and do all sorts of crazy things. And we don't do things like paint colors or - - we'd love to but we just know - - some Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 12 of 27 details like that - - but fences, garages, roofs. They've gotten a little more open about windows as long as they kept the original holes. That kind of thing. It's worked. And if you can do it in Caldwell you can do it anywhere. We have more Libertarians though than any place else though. And some of them are the strongest supporters of that historic district because they love the neighborhood. Lindgren: That's right. Without that attitude (inaudible). Buckendorf: You really don't have any other tape. Lindgren: You don't. Do you think you'd be able to help us kind of back into a scope that would help? Because (inaudible) work with your schedule again (inaudible). Buckendorf: I can come up with a scope of work. I do that all the time. You have to pick the three buildings or two buildings or whatever you think is possible. Lindgren: Is the group comfortable with the three? Is that a good place to start with? Hammond: I would also add if you have recommendations, we would like to hear those recommendations. If you have buildings that you're passionate about and you think we ought to consider this building for these reasons. We're looking for these recommendations too. Buckendorf: Well, anything I guess, maybe. I don't know how Zamzows feels about their building but that's one. If they want to take tax incentives, you know, that's eligible. We could put it on the Register and they could take tax incentives to restore it. They may not want to. I don't know. Hammond: You'd think they would. They're here to stay. They're a big influence. Buckendorf: See, you know better than I do on that. It depends. Lindgren: I think what I'm hearing you say is that it behooves us to go and identify three and then (inaudible). Buckendorf: Two to three. Lindgren: Three, and then (inaudible). Hammond: Plus a windshield survey of (inaudible). At least get us a picture of (inaudible). Buckendorf: I could do the survey and compare it to my map. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 13 of 27 Lindgren: That's kind of a first step for next step. Buckendorf: Depends how much money you've got. Because that would take time and gas. And even though I wouldn't have to produce forms, I'd compare the map and tell you what was out there in 2000 and say here's what's still there and eligible in 2007. Lindgren: Is that something you would have time for (inaudible) in addition to these three? Buckendorf: Well, it depends. I have to talk to (inaudible). Let me ask a question. Would that fall under CLG funding? Would you use CLG monies to pay for that? Lindgren. It's all CLG except we have $1500 that's (inaudible) that we'd match. Buckendorf: Well, that's what I mean. It's all CLG but do you have any funds that are separate from the matching (inaudible)? Lindgren: Yes, yes. Buckendorf: Okay, then I can do it because the other (inaudible) has to be done, the latest is the end of September. Lindgren: Right, right. Buckendorf: And even then. Lindgren: Well, our fiscal year ends September 30th (inaudible). That's why I tried to differentiate. Buckendorf: Well, then, I think I could maybe do one building in (inaudible). Lindgren: (Inaudible) your scope and your availability, let us know. What you can do. And if we can do the three plus get a step in the agricultural if we can, if you have that availability. If you can't then, don't present it. Hammond: We have the potential to (inaudible). Lindgren: Exactly. Hammond: What we can't do this year, we can follow up next year. Buckendorf: I'll go home and take a map. The only places I'm worried about are north and west. If I could get to everything. Because there was quite a Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 14 of 27 concentration there. But like I said, I haven't driven those to know what's still left and I know a lot is gone. We were ahead of the bulldozer in 2000, so - -. Lindgren: In terms of what we should do, do we need a rider at this time with our suggestions or recommendations for two or three buildings for potential nomination? Hammond: I think it'd be a good idea just to make sure we're clear about the scope and I guess with some latitude, again, you realize a lot of (inaudible) over time and the priorities but would you like to - -. Lindgren: (Inaudible) the one that's in here would be fine. The other one I'd like to see would be the (inaudible) Telephone Exchange Building (inaudible) Main which is (inaudible) Emily's list. Hammond: It's not (inaudible). Lindgren: (Inaudible) it's on Emily's list, it said it was eligible. (Inaudible) that's just my concern. (Inaudible) I know the older the building (inaudible). Buckendorf: Oh, is that where the newspaper is? I drove by that and thought it was cute. Lindgren: (Inaudible) the owners would be delighted to see that. Hammond: (Inaudible) you think (inaudible). Buckendorf: What about the Knotty Pine folks? Lindgren: I don't know those people. (Inaudible) I haven't spoken to them but I can go down and chat with them. I'm not sure who to chat with but - -. I can pull up a (inaudible) - - just go to the Assessor's and pull up their — Buckendorf: That'd be typical history of some of those places. Berg: What if you have a specific address, I can get you some information. Lindgren: What about this (inaudible)? Buckendorf: That's a beauty. I just don't think. Well, I think two - -. That one could take more work. It's a wonderful, wonderful house. Lindgren: That's a residence that's been turned into a business for the last couple of years (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 15 of 27 Buckendorf: It's a beautiful building and I love those (inaudible). There's one similar to it down on West Joplin Road with the two chimneys. Lindgren: (Inaudible). Any reason why that wouldn't? Do you see anything that's (inaudible). Buckendorf: This maybe, but that's the only thing. And if she said it was eligible it probably is. Lindgren: So let's (inaudible) two properties to be (inaudible). Buckendorf: And then let me go home and look at the maps and kind of think of what it'd take to do that. Could you e-mail me that map? The one with the - -. Lindgren: I don't know if I have that one but I do have that one. (Inaudible) it has the same borders. Buckendorf: I see it now. Lindgren: And there is also a referral border too. The red line (inaudible). You'll be able to see those. Buckendorf: Now the referral, I definitely wouldn't include those this time. Hammond: On that subject, isn't the referral area potentially Kuna's as well as Meridian's (inaudible)? Lindgren: We don't know (inaudible) happy medium. You want to say negotiated line. Hammond: It's wise to (inaudible). Buckendorf: I couldn't do those two because I know there's still enough left. Once you start getting near Kuna, everything's going too but I know there's enough left there but I just couldn't get to it. Lindgren: It's a start. Buckendorf: I'm thrilled you folks are interested in that. That's kind of what's happening up in Blaine County. They're seeing the rural area disappear so rapidly. Lindgren: (Inaudible). Buckendorf: I'm doing a lot of work near Hailey and Bellevue on some of the large ranches they're developing. And luckily what's nice up there, one of the local people Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 16 of 27 really are local. The developers who come in are usually out-of-state folks who now have taken up permanent residence in that area but they've worked with land trusts. They've worked with historic preservation and they understand the value of preserving some of the historic landscapes and buildings and structures and history of the area. And so they're way far ahead of Ada County and southern Idaho with that. Of course, they have a lot more money too. But surely some of the developers coming in here must have that kind of money. I would think so by now. Lindgren: (Inaudible). Buckendorf: I know, but that's something that some on the City and hopefully on the County level and I think it's getting better with the County level (inaudible) even three years ago, they'll be interested in preserving some of that. Otherwise I said 19 (inaudible). I did the Vanishing Rule landscape talk starting in 1989 and one of the things is because these are all street park communities from Boise out to Middleton, Caldwell, and so forth were laid out exactly the same way as Orange County. In 1989 1 said we're going to end up looking like there. The only reason we're delayed is we didn't have oil money that Southern California had. And we're laid out exactly the same way as it was in Orange County. Lindgren: If you copy something, copy something good. Buckendorf: And as a historian you always hope they learn from history. I've learned not to trust a map but it would be nice if you folks could get ahead of the game and preserve some of the things that are unique and interesting up to this area. Lindgren: (Inaudible). Buckendorf: I haven't for a long time. it was interesting. I started in 1985 when I worked for the State Historical Society documenting agricultural buildings and existing farmsteads in Boise City. And then I went to Area of Impact. And then we did Ada County. And I went back to structures I looked at in Boise in 1985 and updated in 1993. It was frightening. About 80% was gone. So, and you know, just to preserve them I think people have to understand you have to do a little more than that. You also want to interpret it and explain to other people, give them the sense of place that is Meridian or is the Valley or is something. I think people really lose that once they lose their historic structures and landscapes that mean that. That's why I talk about it. Lindgren: (Inaudible). Buckendorf: Yeah, it has value and, again, you know what people are moving here for, not only because of cheap land and jobs but they like the taste of that rural lifestyle that we're going to kill if we don't watch it. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 17 of 27 Lindgren: I really look forward to our conversation (inaudible). Buckendorf: And let me go back, look at the maps, and look over that survey and see what I think I could do. Do you have a first choice out of those two you'd want done? Lindgren: Well, I'll let the group decide that. Hammond: I'd definitely go for the telephone company. That's a beautiful one. Berg: Downtown. Buckendorf: My mother was a telephone operator in Twin Falls so I have a bond. Lindgren: (Inaudible). That map is on our website. Buckendorf: Oh, it is? On Meridian? Lindgren: Meridiancity.org. Buckendorf: I was there and I read the Comprehensive Plan, real quickly. Berg: That's (inaudible). But it'd probably be just as easy in the length of time trying to e-mail it, just get right there. Buckendorf: Well, there's always a gray area but looking at it there's been some alterations but the test they usually give is if someone saw that building who lived in 1926 and saw the original building could be transported and look at it today, would they recognize it? And yeah, they'd recognize it. It hasn't been done completely with stucco. It hasn't been wholly changed. Lindgren: Just the tiles (inaudible). Buckendorf: Yeah, the tiles, those aren't original but - - Lindgren: Two years ago a guy hopped up on something and drove his pick-up into the building. Buckendorf: ON Lindgren: (inaudible) into the side next to the newspaper. (Inaudible) four more feet to the north (inaudible). Hammond: Wow. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 18 of 27 Lindgren: (Inaudible) we've just got a lot (inaudible). If there's anything else we can do. Buckendorf: Let me do that and let me tell you what I can do, give you a price. I tell you, when do work up in Blaine County I charge $60 an hour and I think I'm cheap. Here I'll do an overall cost and I think I can reasonably do it (inaudible). Lindgren: Madeline, I think it's okay to give us your hourly rate for other things that we might ask you to do, meet with us, or whatever on a professional basis, on a consulting basis (inaudible) that we could do something like that if we had to. If we have a contract (inaudible) and you could do it for us. Buckendorf: That's up to you folks. Thank you. Lindgren: So I guess (inaudible) we'll put it in a lump sum based on the scope and then do it on an hourly (inaudible). Buckendorf: One reason I even looked at this is because Meridian is at that point. It still has enough left that I'm hoping we can preserve some of what is there and have an affinity for this area. Perhaps it's too late in other areas. Lindgren: Before you go, your availability let's say even out - - October, November. Do you get pretty busy (inaudible)? Buckendorf: Not during the winter because you can't get any work done up there except I will be writing a major historic context and interpretation plan for a ranch up there they're developing. But I'm pretty well available. It's just tight August. I have at least a week I need to spend up in July up there and then the work slows down and is more reasonable starting, well, the end of September. But after that would be good. If you do CLG things, the sooner you can get the bid out, the better for next year. And for other kinds of consulting work I'm available. It's not too hard except at 5:00. (inaudible). I'll give you a bid and let you know what we can do and anything I can help. I think you have an opportunity to do some good things. Lindgren: I think so too. Thank you. Thank you very much Buckendorf: Do you need a card? Lindgren: I've got the brochure that I think has your e-mail address. (inaudible). Buckendorf: Yeah, I used it once and then I am just doing different things. And I worked three years on the Lewis and Clark Bicentennial so it took me away from that kind of work for a while. But the great big surveys, that's what I don't like to do. You know, they do like 1000 buildings for stuff like that. I just don't enjoy that. I like more Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 19 of 27 detail work where you follow (inaudible). I'm getting old and cranky and like to do stuff I feel has more meat to it I guess is the best way to put it. Lindgren: (Inaudible) Let's skip back to (inaudible). Want to take a few seconds to review (inaudible). Anyone have any comments on our minutes? Thomason: (Inaudible) Mr. Chairman, (inaudible). Lindgren: No, I'm actually comfortable. Hammond: (Inaudible). Lindgren: This was on April 12th, not last month. And this goes back to (inaudible). Buckendorf: I hope so. Well, thank you. Good luck. Lindgren: (Inaudible) would you like to join us? (Inaudible) we can probably discuss it then too but Jim has been trying to reach her for quite some time now and he's been out and about (inaudible). Monday at 10:30 at that Starbuck's. (Inaudible). Hammond: (Inaudible) See how it goes. 3. Approval of April 12, 2007 Meeting Minutes: Lindgren: (Inaudible) Let's skip back to (inaudible). Want to take a few seconds to review (inaudible). Anyone have any comments on our minutes? Thomason: (Inaudible) Mr. Chairman, (inaudible). Lindgren: No, I'm actually comfortable. Hammond: (Inaudible). I'd like to entertain the motion. Thomason: Second. Lindgren: All those in favor of approving April 12 meeting minutes say aye. FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED. 4. Budget / Finance Report: Lindgren: Moving right along, currently we have $9,365 available in the budget although that does not reflect our CAMP. Hammond: That doesn't reflect this, that I know. Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 20 of 27 Lindgren: That's a couple hundred dollars. (inaudible) scope of the sites. So I think we should probably take a close look at that as we - - yeah, the memorial monuments (inaudible) $330. Berg: Did you actually install those? Lindgren: (Inaudible) installation. But you think you ran that through already? Okay. Maybe it just got missed in the cycle. Thomason: (Inaudible) I'm mindful of the imminent ending of the fiscal year. We have an August meeting and a September meeting so we only have two more meetings before that time so is there anything you want us to look at or (inaudible). Lindgren: I would say with certainly Madeline's effort, it's going to be a significant (inaudible), what it will be I don't know. The other item that I was going to bring up at some point in this meeting is that the Chamber (inaudible) see if he wanted to be called. (inaudible) And maybe at this point we might even have a better opportunity to plan it a little bit more so that we really (inaudible). Thomason: (Inaudible). Lindgren: So that $1,000 investment (inaudible). I guess I would like to entertain a motion to (inaudible). Turney: Mr. Chair, I would make a motion to approve $1,000 (inaudible). Thomason: Second. Lindgren: Any discussion on that? All those in favor of approval of $1,000 scarecrow sponsorship (inaudible) say aye. FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT: MOTION CARRIED. Thomason: This year they're having a chili cook -off last I heard because we didn't have it in January at the Scarecrow Festival, just for our information. Lindgren: Maybe we can put it on our agenda for August 2nd date is to really address that festival a little bit closer (inaudible). Maybe we could take a closer look at that. Hammond: I'll (inaudible) Terry online and see what her thoughts are (inaudible). Lindgren: I thought the treasure hunt was wonderful and there's more to it than that (inaudible). Any other discussion on the budget? I think with the activities that we have and with Madeline's efforts (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 21 of 27 Thomason: I would commend you to share on record for having met with (inaudible) today. That was very positive. (inaudible). Lindgren: Thank you. (inaudible) we probably should have done it a couple months ago but (inaudible). S. CAMP Weekend Review: Lindgren: I haven't had a chance to review (inaudible). I really haven't and I would try to say we should probably get our heads together and put out a little outline, get our documents together. There are a few on August especially if Carol could be here too because she could have some input. And I know the months have been getting by us but maybe we can get together and just kind of put together some documents that we received and outline the items that we really want to highlight for the rest of the group. Hammond: I would agree. (Inaudible) although some of those things that came out of that weekend I think you're starting to see results manifest, manifest themselves in other words like (inaudible). 6. Update of HPC Page on City's Website: Lindgren: We'll move on. Item number 6 is update of the website. Have you seen the website (inaudible). Turney: We have not probably done all of the things that we could have done but I didn't know how many people had actually been on it (inaudible). Lindgren: (Inaudible) No, don't worry about it. 7. Update of Walking Tours Project: Lindgren: Actually, item number 7 is walking tours. We can defer item number 7 to a later date too I've got to get these (inaudible). Do you want to just take this? Take this whole (inaudible) with you. (Inaudible). Those photos are (inaudible). So hopefully that will get you a number of (inaudible). 8. Update on Signage Unveiling (Bell House and Clara Hill House): Lindgren: Item number 8, update on signage unveiling (inaudible). I guess we haven't had a chance to talk about it (inaudible). We had some nice press from the Statesman this past week on (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 22 of 27 Thomason: (inaudible). Really nice job. (inaudible) I think it gave the owners a sense of pride and a little bit of awareness we can get out here in the community. Lindgren: That's right. (Inaudible). I think there's a couple more we need to just meet with. Some are not so willing to get involved. Others (inaudible). Hammond: How much longer? Lindgren: Not yet. (Inaudible) A couple of the things that we talked about (inaudible). And we'll probably mention (inaudible) Historic Society, Carol and Lila. Because they are a part of our group (inaudible). Mission statement, which is a part of the ordinance (inaudible). Got the bids. Structures that are on that list are now (inaudible). Get me some photos but I prefer some of those old ones, other ones that we took. (inaudible). Here's the Hill house. (inaudible). When we get these other photos we can highlight those. (inaudible). This was Emily's (inaudible). How this process works. I just thought that Power Point was a really good method of getting something across (inaudible). Hammond: That's very well done. I like that. Lindgren: (Inaudible) watermark background. We need to get you Meridian photos (inaudible). That's our Proclamation that we have. Turney: Oh, cool. Yes. Lindgren: Something different out there, so - -. Berg: The walking tour, we have (inaudible). Lindgren: Yes, thank you very much. (inaudible). Berg: We didn't even have (inaudible). Lindgren: Now we do. Thomason: That's more than one date. Lindgren: Well, next month I expect at least four hits on that website. Hammond: My mom's always good for supporting you like that too so we got five. Lindgren: (Inaudible). We can alternate, right? (inaudible) All right, thanks Will. No, I do that too. Trust me. Very busy out there. 9. Follow up on Sleepy Hollow Farm Discussion: Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 23 of 27 Lindgren: Item number 9, follow up on Sleepy Hollow Farm discussion, I'm not sure if you have any more we could add to that although (inaudible) Monday at Starbuck's and I think if (inaudible) ITD historic survey. 10. Review Upcoming Training Seminars: Lindgren: Item number 10 is review of upcoming training seminars. There is the National Trust one. I don't have it with me but it's the one I went to a couple years ago and it was okay. It was a little more broad scoped than the NACP one. The NACP one meets every two years so (inaudible) Baltimore wouldn't be until next year. That's not to say that you couldn't learn anything at the Trust one. I think it's just a matter of hitting the right seminars. I don't know, maybe we ought to - - in August we could take a look at our budget and see where we are with things. But we do have (inaudible). Steve, Frank, Tom, are you guys interested at all? Hammond: Yeah. Lindgren: The National Trust one is in St. Paul -Minneapolis and I think it's October 2nd 2nd through 4th, whatever it is. Does anybody have interest in - -? Hammond: What dates? Lindgren: It's like - - I could forward an e-mail to you for the registration but I think it's right around early October. (inaudible). Hammond: October would take us past the other fiscal year. Thomason: You would have some expenditures (inaudible). As far as just some other ideas, I was going to go on the web site and search and do some different things with historic preservation to see if there're other avenues out there for education and even for purchasing books or manuals because we have background that touched on this at CAMP. But we have the possibility of getting the information without going somewhere because I know how busy your lives are. But even they have those training books (inaudible), things like that. Try to incorporate some of the things into our educational training. We were able to meet with a lot of people in CAMP around Idaho that maybe a visit of those communities' meetings might be kind of a neat thing to get what they're doing out there (inaudible). Maybe just me or Walter, but maybe that would be a little bit, we'd have to travel but maybe (inaudible). Lindgren: I think Caldwell is probably (inaudible) more activity. So we could may go over there and just find out where their meeting is and go half an hour early and someone could give us brief detailed description of what their procedures and process and input things are to that community (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 24 of 27 Hammond: I think that's good. I would say that that NACP one is one that is worth checking out. The Trust one was interesting but may not be (inaudible). And I would suggest maybe the following year, that's in July of next year. I'm not sure where it is (inaudible). Like in the CAMP one, you get a lot of that same spirit. You get regenerated, rejuvenated. It is, you do. Especially when you talk to the people about what they're (inaudible). Turney: (Inaudible) I would even recommend that we consider perhaps sending somebody to National Trust even if it's general in nature to get this commission multilayered. And if that's like the second week in October, depending on our budget and anybody's availability and interest, I would certainly go by seniority and your Vice Chair, through your hierarchy here so that if something happens, that we have somebody else (inaudible). They get that sort of general concept from National Trust and they get more specific on those others. Lindgren: If we have the budget and if we have the interest and availability of getting any commissioners to go to that. Thomason: I think it's as good as you make it. If you go to (inaudible) and you find the right topics (inaudible). I would say maybe could we do this? August 2"d still leaves us (inaudible) to schedule something. Does anyone want to kick around whoever (inaudible). That is one of our main (inaudible) financial statements; $1500 1 think goes to (inaudible). Lindgren: (inaudible) they're easy, they're inexpensive and we can all get training but if we get some of us with the general training, something specific that we can share, download, and also do (inaudible) to get us all up to speed and eventually we can get our commissioners so that we're multi -tiered. Hammond: I agree. It's good to be frank with you. I see a time in the future, the very near future that I may just say (inaudible). I think it's good and I talked to Carol a little bit about this is that at some point I just say look (inaudible), I'll be part of the group, I'll be back home and do my thing, whatever and give somebody else that opportunity and you're right, I think it will just make the group that much stronger if we can keep it that way (inaudible). You know, maybe the beginning of the year (inaudible). You do get caught up. (inaudible). 11. Development Project Comments: CPA 07-003 Pathways RZ 07-011, PP 07-010, CUP 07-010 Shaylee Estates AP 07-004 Busted Shovel CUP 07-012 Kelley Carport Lindgren: Let's see what else we've got here. The vote (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 25 of 27 Thomason: They were e-mailed weeks ago. Lindgren: Has everybody had a chance to read this? (inaudible). But I don't know if you had time to review any of those to see if they had any comments at all. And maybe you might want to take a quick look at them. Thomas: Well, you know, this for example, the Busted Shovel one is just, I believe this is for a --. Hey, what does AP stand for? Mr. Berg? Berg: What's that? Appeal. Is that in the (inaudible). Like we have A and Z which is annexation and zoning. We have RZ, rezone. CUP, conditional use permit. Lindgren: So they're appealing. This project was appealed. (inaudible). So they're appealing this being a drinking establishment. Berg: Right, exactly. Lindgren: (Inaudible). Some things may be right up our alley and some may not have anything to do with us. Hammond: Going over your e-mail (inaudible). I didn't print them out. I should have because later I couldn't find them again. Berg: I thought I was saving paperwork by trying to scan them and send them to you so we could look at them. And if any of you want them printed out please call me and I'll print them out for you. And I'll have them ready for you. Just mailing things takes a lot of money. But if we can try to get that out right away you can maybe look at those transmittals and say, hey, this is something of interest. We can print it out and maybe put an asterisk, say we need to talk about this. If that's okay for a plan. You guys need to look at those kind of when you get them, just say this has some interest or it doesn't. Lindgren: (Inaudible). This one here is the subdivision, the Shaylee Subdivision they're putting in (inaudible). Are those contributing properties over there? (inaudible). They're subdividing. Hammond: I don't know how they're - -. Lindgren: The project site is just north of Maple along Meridian Road. These are different houses (inaudible). Oh, I see, these are just garages. Hammond: Looks like very small (inaudible) storage. Lindgren: But they're individual (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 26 of 27 Berg: This is a rezone .77 of an acre from CG to OT (inaudible) plat approval of two office building lots, six single-family residential lots, one common lot, (inaudible) to construct six townhouses. Lindgren: (Inaudible) downtown standards. Did you see this? These are the garages to the townhouses. (inaudible). So I'm assuming they're two-story, three- story, whatever townhouse (inaudible). Hammond: Row house, whatever. Lindgren: We could do that elevation (inaudible). I'm just not sure where our scope is. Hammond: I think more importantly if we get a survey, we got some of these buildings and things that are marked that we can create a data base of some sort, that a flag will go up that says they're tearing down this building. Lindgren: In this case they're not. Those two (inaudible) as is. (Inaudible). Hammond: I don't see much here. Lindgren: You have a common wall. I think those terms are (inaudible). They're townhouses because they have a common wall and they're not stacked. (Inaudible). Condos don't stack like that. With a condo you have a space. I think a townhouse, you actually have (inaudible) common wall but I think you own (inaudible). Hammond: You own the land that it's sitting on. And a condominium you own it in common so legally (inaudible). Lindgren: (Inaudible). Does anybody have (inaudible). I'm sure there'd be probably another appeal. You need to start this early, young man. Hammond: I'm trying. Lindgren: (Inaudible) Here's a shovel. Does anyone have (inaudible) on those projects? Thomason: (Inaudible). Lindgren: Does anybody have anything else they want to add (inaudible)? (Inaudible) talk about the Scarecrow Festival and then (inaudible). I guess could we leave it that we meet off line to (inaudible) because my fear is that we just get started (inaudible). Meridian Historic Preservation Commission July 5, 2007 Page 27 of 27 Berg: I think we get the proposal out to all the members and their input and officially at the meeting we can vote (inaudible). Lindgren: If or some reason (inaudible). Entertain motion to adjourn meeting? Any discussion. You guys want to talk about it? Steve? All those in favor of adjourning the meeting say aye. FOUR AYES. ONE ABSENT. MOTION CARRIED. 12. Next Meeting: Thursday, August 2, 2007 at 5:30 pm ter• -.- CHAIRMAN .---. . ATTESTED: WILLIAM G. BERG JR., IT CLERK