HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 07-13Revised July 12, 2004
CITY OF MERIDIAN
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, at 7:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
Roll -call Attendance:
X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance: by Brandon Berg
3. Community Invocation by Pastor Ed Kreiner, with the Meridian
Assembly of God: Presented
4. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve
5. Consent Agenda: Approve
A. Approve Minutes of June 22, 2004 City Council Regular Minutes:
Approve
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: M104-
006 Request to amend the Development Agreement for EI Dorado
Business Campus to include nursing homes and residential care
facilities as permitted uses by W.H. Moore Company — southwest
corner of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road: Approve
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
012 Request for a Preliminary Plat approval for six commercial
building lots and one common lot on 2.82 acres in a C -G zone for
Initial Point Subdivision by Robnett Construction — east of North
Meridian Road and south of East Fairview Avenue: Approve
D. Development Agreement: AZ 03-022 Request for annexation and
zoning of 5 acres from RT to C -G zones for Kissler (Dealy Parcel) by
BRS Architects — southeast corner of East Ustick Road and North
Eagle Road: Approve
E. Development Agreement: AZ 04.004 Request for annexation
and zoning of 34.6 acres from RUT to I -L, L -O, and C -G zones for
Meridian City Council Agenda —July 13, 2004 Page 1 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone dwaing accom endahon for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-0433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Revised July 12, 2004
proposed McNelis Subdivision by Falcon Creek, LLC — northwest
corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road: Approve
F. Montvue Sewer and Water Extension Project: Approve
6. Department Reports:
A. Mayor's Office:
1. Economic Development Coordinator: Cheryl Brown —
Approve
2. Presentation on Project Report for Mayor's Internship by
Brandon Berg: Presented
3. Update on Transition Team Report: Report back in
September
7. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
8. Request for Refund of Fence Waiver Appeal for Steve Christensen:
Approve
9. FP 04-041 Final Plat approval for 18 single-family residential building lots
and 1 common lot on 4.6 acres in an R-8 zone for Quenzer Commons
Subdivision No. 7 by Brighton Development, Inc. — west of N. Locust
Grove Road and north of E. Ustick Road: Approve
10. FP 04-042 Final Plat approval for 32 single-family residential building lots
and 4 common lots on 9.34 acres in an R-8 zone for Burney Glen
Subdivision No. 2 by Properties West, Inc. — east of North Meridian Road
and south of East McMillan Road: Approve
11. FP 04-043 Final Plat approval for 2 building lots and 2 common lots on 2.7
acres in an I -L zone for Cafarelli Subdivision No. 2 by Shaun Fickes —
north side of West Franklin Road and west of Linder Road: Approve
12. Public Hearing: AZ 04.010 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 4.10
acres from RUT to L-0 zone for proposed Brockton Subdivision by
Confluence Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road:
Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for
Approval
13. Public Hearing: PP 04-013 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 10
commercial building lots on 4.10 acres for proposed Brockton
Subdivision by Confluence Management, L.L.C. 3665 North Locust
Meridian City Council Agenda — July 13, 2004 Page 2 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing
please contact the City Clc*'s Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting
Revised July 12, 2004
Grove Road: Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions
of Law for Approval
14. Public Hearing: CUP 04012 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development for proposed Brockton Subdivision with request
for reduction to the required landscape buffer along the north, south and
west boundaries and reduced or no lot frontage by Confluence
Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road: Attorney to
Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval
15. Public Hearing: ZOA 04-001 Request for Zoning Ordinance
Amendment to allow small antennas to be mounted on existing and new
light and power poles within residential, office, commercial and industrial
subdivisions by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc: Continue Public Hearing to
August 17, 2004 Meeting
16. Public Hearing: PP 04-014 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 8
commercial building lots on 6.9 acres in an I -L zone for Reagan
Subdivision by Quadrant Consulting, Inc. — east of North Eagle Road and
south of East Presidential Drive: Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law for Approval
17. Re -Adoption of Ordinance No. 04-1074 AZ 03-018 Request for
annexation and zoning of 43.86 +I- acres from RT to C -G zones for
Kissler I Cobbs / Eagv I Ruwe by BRS Architects — southwest comer
and southeast comer of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road:
Approve
18. Ordinance No. 041088 : AZ 03-022 Request for annexation and
zoning of 5 acres from RT to C -G zones for Kissler (Deals Parcell by BRS
Architects — southeast comer of East Ustick Road and North Eagle Road:
Approve
19. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 04-009
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 36.93 acres from RUT to C -G zone
for Market Square by Smith Brighton — northeast corner of North Eagle
Road and East Ustick Road: Approve
20. Development Agreement: AZ 04-009 Request for Annexation and
Zoning of 36.93 acres from RUT to C -G zone for Market Square by Smith
Brighton — northeast comer of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road:
Approve
21. Ordinance No. 04-1089 : AZ 04-009 Request for Annexation
and Zoning of 36.93 acres from RUT to C -G zone for Market Square by
Smith Brighton — northeast corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick
Road: Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda— July 13, 2004 Page 3 of 4
All materials, presented at public meetings shalt become property of the City of Meridian
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 8884433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Revised July 12, 2004
22. Ordinance No. 04-1090 : AZ 04004 Request for annexation
and zoning of 34.6 acres from RUT to I -L, L-0, and C -G zones for
proposed McNelis Subdivision by Falcon Creek, LLC — northwest corner
of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road: Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda — July 13, 7004 Page 4 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 bours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council Meeting July 13 2004
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:00 P.M.,
Tuesday, July 13, 2004, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, William Nary, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree
and Shaun Wardle.
Staff Present: Jill Holinka, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Brad Watson, Bill Musser, Kenny
Bowers, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I'd like to welcome you here tonight and I will open up the regular City
Council agenda for Tuesday, July 13. It is 7:00 o'clock and we will start with roll call
attendance. Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 2 is the pledge of allegiance and we are led in the
pledge by Brandon Berg.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Ed Kreiner, with the Meridian
Assembly of God:
De Weerd: Thank you, Brandon. Item No. 3 is the community invocation by Pastor Ed
Kreiner with Meridian Assembly of God Church. Thank you for joining us.
Kreiner: Thank you. If you tell my congregation I came in and sat in the back row, I will
deny it. Lord, we do not want to operate this meeting independent of you or your
wisdom and we thank you that city government is as much a part of your plan as church
and so we invoke your presence, your guidance in discussion and in all that is done we
ask that there will be reasonableness and conclusions that are satisfying to the direction
of our government. We thank you for it in Jesus' name, Amen.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Amen. Thank you so much. I would like to present to you a City of Meridian
pin and thank you for joining us. Okay. Item 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 2 of 56
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the revised July 12th, 2004, agenda as published.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as published. I would
ask that an Item 3 under my office department report be added, just an update on the
transition team report.
Bird: That's -- it's revised. It's on the revised is what it is. That's why I give the revised
date.
De Weerd: Thank you. I appreciate the city clerk anticipating my every request. You're
awesome, Mr. Berg. Okay. Thank you. The motion is to accept the agenda as
presented. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of June 22, 2004 City Council Regular Minutes:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: MI 04-
006 Request to amend the Development Agreement for EI Dorado
Business Campus to include nursing homes and residential care
facilities as permitted uses by W.H. Moore Company — southwest
corner of South Eagle Road and East Overland Road:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
012 Request for a Preliminary Plat approval for six commercial
building lots and one common lot on 2.82 acres in a C -G zone for
Initial Point Subdivision by Robnett Construction — east of North
Meridian Road and south of East Fairview Avenue:
D. Development Agreement: AZ 03-022 Request for annexation and
zoning of 5 acres from RT to C -G zones for Kissler (Dealt/ Parcell by
BRS Architects — southeast corner of East Ustick Road and North
Eagle Road:
E. Development Agreement: AZ 04-004 Request for annexation and
zoning of 34.6 acres from RUT to I -L, L -O, and C -G zones for
proposed McNelis Subdivision by Falcon Creek, LLC — northwest
corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road:
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 3 of 56
F. Montvue Sewer and Water Extension Project:
De Weerd: Item No. 5 is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as published and for the Mayor to
sign and the Clerk to attest on all proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda. Is
there any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Department Reports:
A. Mayor's Office:
1. Economic Development Coordinator:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 6, Department Reports. The first item you have the
resume and cover letter of the applicant. I'd like to recommend to you for the contract of
economic development coordinator and would entertain any questions.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: How many applicants did you have?
De Weerd: We had a number of inquiries, but we have one application or one submittal.
Bird: Where did we advertise for these at?
De Weerd: Mr. Berg? It was published in the normal spots in both the Idaho Statesman
and the Valley Times.
Bird: And what kind of -- have you agreed upon a salary or is it depending on
experience?
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 4 of 56
De Weerd: Yes. It will be for -- you know, right now the contract would go until the end
of September and so that would be -- I'm sorry, I don't have my calculator in front of me,
but it's a 35,000 dollar a year contract, divide that by 12.
Bird: And she's got about a quarter left? And she isn't an employee, she's an actual
subcontractor; right?
De Weerd: Yes. It's a contract, not an employee position.
Bird: Well, is she -- is she a subcontractor and does she have a company name?
De Weerd: No. She applied under her name.
Bird: Okay. And you're recommending her to be hired?
De Weerd: Yes, I am.
Bird: Then, I move that we hire her.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Cheryl Brown as the
economic development coordinator. Is there any further discussion?
Nary: Is -- I guess the clarification is to select her from the RP process, but we still have
to approve a contract. We don't have a contract with her yet.
De Weerd: That's correct.
Nary: So, that will come back.
De Weerd: The city attorney is drawing that up. I thought it would be available tonight,
but --
Nary: Okay.
De Weerd: -- it's not.
Bird: Well, we are just basically approving entering into a contract with her and it's not
official until we approve the contract, but we do have to make a motion to enter into a
contract.
Nary: You're right. I just --
Bird: And this contract will only be until October 1 st, this first one; right?
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 5 of 56
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Bird: Okay.
Nary: No. You were correct, Mr. Berg. I just wanted to make sure it was clear that
that's all we were doing.
De Weerd: Is there any further questions?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Berg, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
2. Presentation on Project Report for Mayor's Internship by
Brandon Berg:
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg. Item No. 2 is the presentation of -- from our summer
intern on the youth initiatives that he has been working on. Brandon Berg.
B.Berg: Thank you, everyone, Members of the Council, and Mayor de Weerd. This
summer I've had the unique opportunity to be the first class of interns at the City of
Meridian. I have been in charge of three major undertakings in the Mayor's office all
dealing with youth. I'm going to just give you a little update on each of these projects
and if you have any questions about them and, then, hopefully, just encourage you to
support these efforts in the future, because I will be departing, but these initiatives need
to continue and they need to continue with significant support from this Council and the
leadership within city administration. The first task Mayor de Weerd gave me was to
coordinate applicants and delegates from the City of Meridian for the Idaho Youth
Leadership Council or Conference held in association with the annual Conference of the
Association of Idaho Cities. This conference was held June 17th through the 18th at
Garden City. We were able to secure five applicants to attend this conference, all
females from area high schools, and they had a great time. I got a chance to meet with
them following the conference, got a lot of feedback of what they want to see within our
community, how they want to help, what initiatives they see that the Council and other
community members take a part in to support the youth and things they would like to
see done. They also have made commitments to the two other initiatives that I have
been assigned, including the Mayor's Youth Council and to Meridian's Promise. That
was the main goal of getting these youth involved at this conference was to get their
further involvement in projects that we wished to coordinate within our city. So, that
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 6 of 56
brings me to the second initiative I had. Currently in Idaho there is several communities
of promise. However, Meridian is not one of them. America's Promise, the large
organization, was founded in 1997 and I'm sure through the many conferences that
members of the Council have attended you have heard bits and pieces about this. The
packet of information that I gave to you talks more specifically about Meridian's promise
and what we are undertaking within our city. When we gathered members of the
community together to evaluate what the youth needed, to evaluate how the city and
every member of our community can better serve the youth, we found that there really
did not exist an overarching organization that allowed the networking necessary to
provide efficient services to youth and their families throughout our community. With
this in mind it was agreed upon by the members of our board to found and create
Meridian's Promise, which will house all of our Community of Promise efforts, which is a
subsidy of Idaho's Promise, which is also a subsidy of America's Promise. We have
met on three occasions now, we have had two general meetings, one board meeting,
and tomorrow we will have our second board meeting. We will adopt a vision and a
mission at the meeting tomorrow. The vision for Meridian's Promise is that as a board
and members we envision the creation of a community that values our youth by
fostering long-term relationships with businesses, education, health care, and
government agencies and organizations and providing a positive, safe environment that
empowers all of its citizens to become active and productive members committed to
building the character and competence of our youth. This is a large undertaking, but the
members that we have assembled are very excited about the promise of our youth and
are ready to empower the community and the youth. We hope to get several initiatives
on board and deal with the search institute survey, which dealt with exactly what the
needs of the youth are in our community, such as making the youth feel valued that they
are a part of the city government, they are part of decision making, they have positive
adult role models in their lives. Those are the types of initiatives that we will be
undertaking as a board. We will also be completing our official Community of Promise
application and with that and once it is approved, we will receive a nice sign to be
placed for everyone to view when they enter the city limits of Meridian, indicating that
we are committed to the development of our youth. The final project I have been
assigned is that of the Mayor's Youth Council and upon the recommendation of the
Council during the budget workshop I'm happy to say that this project is well underway.
We will be formulating this Council in -- by the end of October. We will have youth
selected. Currently I am working with the Mayor and Joe Borton on getting the
application proceedings, getting bylaws and necessary ordinances and resolutions that
the Council must approve and also coordinating activities within the school district to
insure that we have adequate representation by the youth of the community. This
project will allow the youth of Meridian to have the ear of the city directly. Mayor de
Weerd has made a commitment to this project and we have discovered through looking
at other youth councils, like in Caldwell, Nampa, and Rexburg, that the way that these
programs are successful is if -- it is adequately demonstrated that the adult leadership,
the Council, the Mayor, and the administration, if they are behind the initiative 110
percent. The youth must see the active -- the activeness of the Council and Mayor and
their willingness to be involved with this effort. While some Councils may say that they
are supportive of it, unless that action is seen by the youth, they are left disenfranchised
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 7 of 56
and that's the main problem that we are trying to deal with. When the youth do not feel
valued in the community, they don't want to build long-term relationships and they don't
want to have roots in the community, they don't feel the need to give back. All of these
elements are necessary, which is why it makes this Council a big step for youth feeling
like they are represented and also creating positive adult -youth relationships. This has
been a long two months, as I have been attending classes part-time at Boise State and
will be returning to Lewis and Clark College in the middle of August, but I can assure
you that these projects will be well underway and I will leave them in good hands with
the necessary people, but I ask for your continued support of these initiatives, which
may in the future come for the funding of positions to head such an organization as
Meridian's Promise. The vision of this is to get big. We want it to get big, we want it to
get powerful, we want it to be a resource that everyone in the community can turn to
and while we just had the budget workshop meetings and we prided ourself on what we
were able to do, I think all of these programs fit into the unique vision of the City of
Meridian and we will work nicely, even if it comes to funding those types of positions as
they are deemed necessary. Thank you very much for your time and have a fun
meeting.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brandon. Do you have any questions for Brandon?
Bird: I have none, but I just want to compliment you on hiring such a fine intern. He's a
young man that the City of Meridian can be proud that he's from and I know my wife and
I think of him as a grandson and he's well worthy of all praise and I -- we couldn't have
found a better youth to be a leader for us.
B.Berg: Thank you.
Bird: Thank you, Brandon.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Just a comment. I'd echo the same thing Mr. Bird said. Brandon, I appreciate all
the time and effort. I know it's a lot, especially working with young folks and they have
lots interests and other activities and that's very difficult. Council, most of us have been
involved with the Association of Idaho Cities and seeing how these youth councils and
all that can be a great and positive influence in a city and I think Brandon's absolutely
right, I mean part of that is really showing them and putting, essentially, our money
where our mouth is, and we did that in the budget discussions today and also by finding
an opportunity on our parks commission for youth members to participate. It is an
important part of our community and I appreciate Brandon's efforts as an intern this
summer and being able to kind of get this started for us, so thank you.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 8 of 56
De Weerd: I just wanted to remind you that the Community of Promise that we are
striving for, the five promises are caring adults, safe places, healthy start, marketable
skills, and opportunities to serve. The Job Service is one of the partners in this and they
are working on a Yellow Page project to identify all the youth resources and that's well
underway, as I understand it.
B.Berg: It's currently available online.
De Weerd: Okay. Well -- so well underway, it's done. I go on vacation and look what
happens.
B.Berg: They are continuing to add a lot of things to it, but there is a searchable date
base online already.
De Weerd: And we do have the faith community as partners in this, the school district,
the Chamber of Commerce, the health community.
B.Berg: Nonprofit organizations.
De Weerd: A lot of nonprofit organizations, Rotary, Kiwanis, the Boys and Girls Club, so
there is -- and I believe you see a list of the board members. If there is any Council
member who would like to be involved in this, I certainly would invite a member to join
in. Let me know if you have an interest, because, certainly, we would like to see this
work and it's important to have that visual commitment as well. So, Brandon, I
appreciate all your work. You're phenomenal to work with and I appreciate your energy,
your tenacity, and also your organization. You have done a good job with this. Thank
you.
B.Berg: Thank you.
3. Update on Transition Team Report:
De Weerd: The third item is an update on the transition team report. I think you heard
that in the budget presentations today and, folks, we have hung out together all day, we
have been together since 8:00 o'clock, so if at times our eyes look like we are glazing
over, it's not you, it's us. But you have heard a number of times in the presentations
today about the transition team report. I have asked each of the department directors to
give their response, as they have had a chance to review it. I have not heard responses
from Council. I would like your directions on -- if you would like an opportunity to
respond unofficially, officially, or how best, if you have any issues, or comments that you
would like to make. What I am asking of the directors is now that I have got their
responses, we will sit down and go through their responses and in September respond
to the committee as a whole with the city's response. So, I would like to kind of get an
idea from you all on if you feel compelled to respond, if you would like to do it through
writing, through a pre -Council agenda, or how best to do that, so we can incorporate
your comments into the city's response. Any ideas or comments? Reactions?
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 9 of 56
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: It sounds like you're leaving that to our choice.
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: My preference would be just to hand you some notes and comments.
Bird: That would be my preference. I'll just type up something and give it to you.
De Weerd: Okay. I would appreciate that. And, then, I can incorporate it into the
department --
Bird: Remind me about the 1st of September.
De Weerd: I would like it before the 1st of September, Mr. Bird.
Rountree: If we had a time line, that would be helpful.
De Weerd: Okay. If I could have your comments by the end of the month, it would be
appreciated.
Bird: I will try, but I am going to go on a ten-day vacation, so --
De Weerd: Okay. How about the middle of August?
Bird: That would be fine. The 1 st of August or something I'll get my comments in.
De Weerd: Okay. Does that work for the rest of you? I know your time is limited, but I
would appreciate your comments.
Item 7: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
De Weerd: Okay. Moving on, we had no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 8: Request for Refund of Fence Waiver Appeal for Steve Christensen:
De Weerd: Item 8 is a request for a refund of the fence waiver appeal for Steve
Christensen. His correspondence should be in your packets and I was not able to talk
with our Planning and Zoning director on this. By ordinance Council has the authority to
the waive this. He did -- within our ordinance it also stated if it's withdrawn within seven
days that they can request the refund. He did withdraw this within the seven-day time
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 10 of 56
frame or before the time frame noted in our ordinance, so I would ask for your
comments and any subsequent motion on this.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have got a question for Mrs. Canning. This is all -- all within the deal. What was
your answer to him, that he had to come before the Council or -- if it's in the ordinance
like that, you know, why couldn't you, as a staff person, been able to refund that, unless
you have got a problem with it, and that's what I need to know.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council if you don't mind, I'd like to take a
minute responding to this. The first time I saw this was tonight and since it calls my
professionalism into question, I think it's appropriate to address it somewhat. The fence
waiver that we received -- Mr. Christensen was not the applicant, he was responding in
complaint to a fence waiver request. The request was very typical of the fence waiver
requests that we have granted in the past. It's a corner lot, they were asking for a ten -
foot reduction on one side, instead of the ten -foot, and these are exactly the kind of
fence waivers that the city has granted routinely over years. The letter stated -- in Mr.
Christensen's objection letter to the proposed fence waiver were the fence -- the type of
fencing material which the city does not get involved with, that's up to this homeowners
association and site safety concerns for the second one that were addressed. We did
go out, we looked at the site triangles on all the adjoining streets to make sure that it
wasn't going to be a sight concern. It was not. And that was backed up by both --
Bruce Stewart looked at the file from Public Works, who, as you know, has been on the
fence waiver committee for years, as well as Lieutenant Stowe from the police
department. So, the concerns expressed by Mr. Christensen were routine and they
were typically something that the city has gone ahead and approved the fence waiver.
So, with that as a background, when the fence waiver hearing was scheduled, we -- as
we always do, we coordinated with the applicant on the timing of that hearing. Once we
got that hearing scheduled we did get a letter from Mr. Christensen saying he wasn't
able to attend, but the meeting had been scheduled, so we kept it where it was, in
particular because this was a fairly routine fence waiver. So, when the hearing came,
we did his letters, they were in the public record, we specifically talked about them and
addressed them, but we went ahead and approved the fence waiver. That applicant,
because of the CC&Rs, also had to get approval from her homeowners association. It
was either denied or withdrawn -- I'm not sure exactly what happened, but she has
decided not to build the fence, but before that decision was made Mr. Christensen
wanted to appeal the decision. Now, the appeal -- he came before you and asked to
not pay the appeal fee. Appeal fees are generally set quite low in an effort to not
discourage people from appealing, but they -- the 150 dollars just covered the mailing
notices and the legal noticing. So, all of that money had already been spent before Mr.
Christensen requested his refund, because it had been noticed for a public hearing. So,
there wasn't money. And, then, the -- if we hadn't spent any of it, yes, I would have
gone ahead and issued it. It does say that refund is at the discretion of Council. Now, if
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 11 of 56
we haven't really even begun to process an application, the Planning and Zoning
Department will just refund the money, but in this case it had already gone through
pretty much the whole process and, as I said, that 150 dollars covered the mailing and
the noticing fees. There had been countless e-mails and phone calls and letters
regarding this application. So, that doesn't address any of the staff time that was just
the hard cost to the city. So, he had asked for -- as he states in the letter towards the
bottom, he asked for a city fee schedule and any ordinance related to the fee schedule.
I have already done that, so he does have that information. I guess I'm -- I think that
what has happened is he's in an arena that he's not fully aware of and is frustrated,
because he's not as well informed as he might be and it happens frequently to people
that get caught in this process and we have tried to answer him -- answer his e-mails. I
have never actually spoken to him, I've only communicated through e-mails and we
have always tried to get answers to him as quickly as we could. We had to do a little
research on the fees that had been spent, so that e-mail took a little while, but I think
that there has been a little misunderstanding. It's not the first time we have had an
objection to a fence waiver and it wasn't an unusual request either, but I think we --
there has been some communication struggle on this one.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'm looking at the ordinance that he cites, 11-19-3. Is that an accurate -- without
me pulling up the code, is that accurate within the e-mail is what he cites as the
ordinance?
Canning: I'm pretty sure that's what I had sent him before and I apologize, I didn't notice
this on the agenda and didn't come in -- the letter just came -- I just got from Mr. Berg,
so that appears correct.
Nary: Okay. And, then, I guess I was going to ask Mrs. Holinka if she would look at
that, because when I -- the way I read this -- and its just me reading it -- it doesn't
appear that it's discretionary for us to not give him back his fee. It doesn't say that if no
work has been done or at the discretion of the Council, it just says we have to order it,
but the language in the code says the fees to be charged are not refundable, except
where petition or application is withdrawn at least one week before the day. So, that
doesn't sound like it's a discretionary decision on our part to return it. I mean I agree
with you, Mrs. Powell, the purpose of the fee -- I'm sorry, Mrs. Canning. But the
purpose of the fee is to pay for the work that's in the -- the noticing and all the
requirements that go with having a proper hearing. This one I know is a little goofy,
because most of the appeals of this type is the person who has the fence waiver
denied. This was the neighbor who didn't like the fence waiver that was granted; isn't
that right?
Canning: Correct.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 12 of 56
Nary: Okay. But I guess maybe Mrs. Holinka can give us her thoughts, but I don't see
any language in here that tells me that it's our choice and that we have some discretion
or standard in which to apply to not give it back, something like unless the fees have
already been expended for notice or something, then, I think we could, but --
Canning: And I'm double-checking the code, so I'll --
Nary: Yeah. I just pulled it up, too, and it's the same. I mean what he has in his e-mail
is the same thing that's in the code that we have in front of us, but it just doesn't appear
that we have any discretion, it just sounds as if we have this administrative function of
approving it, so -- but, I don't know, Mrs. Holinka, did you have an opportunity to look at
that?
Holinka: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I did look at this and it is the accurate
-- the most recent code provision in the code and I guess I would have to agree with
Councilman Nary that there is really not a discretionary element there, but it's just -- it
has to be approved -- the refund has to be approved by the Council.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: So, I guess -- I guess, Anna, I would agree wholeheartedly with you, we just didn't
write it that way. It sounds like our function is merely ministerial at this point and merely
we are supposed to approve that return and put this on the list of the many other
ordinances we need to fix, because it doesn't seem to be very fair to the taxpayers to
eat the cost of an appeal that gets withdrawn, but we didn't write it in the way to cover
that. It appears back in 1984 it took us -- we didn't send the notice out until closer to the
time they could withdraw it and now we do it properly ahead of time, but --
Bird: We probably didn't send notices.
Nary: But I mean that's just -- I just don't see us having discretion. I agree with what
you said and why we shouldn't give it back, but I don't know that we have any real basis
to deny it. Unless somebody else reads it different.
De Weerd: Council, any further comments?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: I have none.
De Weerd: Other than to Mrs. Canning to add it to a growing list of ordinances that
appear a little antiquated. Any other comments? Well, I guess I would need a motion,
then.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 13 of 56
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move that we approve the refund of the appeal fee paid by Steve
Christensen in the fence waiver request pursuant to the city ordinance.
Wardle: Second.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item No. 8. Any further
discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Berg.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. I guess procedurally how do we go about --
Berg: Madam Mayor, I would suggest that I get a copy of the minutes and we will write a
request sheet check to the accounting department and issue the money back and
document it in a file.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: The fees were probably spent by the clerk's office, so -- I mean since it's the
budget day, I don't know whose budget it gets refunded from. Probably P&Z, since
Will's probably already absorbed the cost once, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Well, we will see a request, then, out of special services and -- but,
Will, if you will initiate the action.
Berg: Yes. Madam Mayor, yes, I will and I will make sure Anna has the paperwork.
Item 9: FP 04-041 Final Plat approval for 18 single-family residential building lots
and 1 common lot on 4.6 acres in an R-8 zone for Quenzer Commons
Subdivision No. 7 by Brighton Development, Inc. — west of N. Locust
Grove Road and north of E. Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Item No. 9, FP 04-041. 1 will ask for staff
comments on Item No. 9.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request for Quenzer
Commons Subdivision No. 7 and it is -- consists of 18 single-family residential lots and
one common lot. The common lot has the green dot on it. It's a pathway connecting
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 14 of 56
the open space just south of there. I will go back up to the approved preliminary plat.
You can see the open space lot here and the pathway connection there. It is in
substantial compliance with the approved preliminary plat and staff is recommending
approval.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Canning: There is a letter from the applicant stating they are in agreement with the
conditions of approval.
De Weerd: We have a copy of that e-mail in front of you and so, Council, what is your
motion?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve FP 04-041, final plat for Quenzer Commons
Subdivision No. 7.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 9. Is there any further
discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 10: FP 04-042 Final Plat approval for 32 single-family residential building lots
and 4 common lots on 9.34 acres in an R-8 zone for Burney Glen
Subdivision No. 2 by Properties West, Inc. — east of North Meridian
Road and south of East McMillan Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 is FP 04-042. Staff comments on this item.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is Burney Glen Subdivision,
which is just west of that last Quenzer Commons Subdivision. This is the second final
plat and this is the preliminary plat as shown circled in red. This is the final plat. It is in
substantial compliance with the approved preliminary plat. I have shown the open
space lots within the green dot. The small one does connect, as you see, to future
phases of that large open space. It is in substantial compliance with the approved
preliminary plat. There was one condition. On page three, item number 13, should not
have been in there, so we need to delete that. The applicant has provided a letter
stating that they are in agreement with the conditions of approval if that number 13 is
taken out, as just discussed.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 15 of 56
De Weerd: I guess it just goes with 13. Any discussion by Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None.
De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 10, FP 04-042, final plat for Burney Glen
Subdivision No. 2 with the deletion of item number 13.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 10 with the amendment.
Any further discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 11: FP 04-043 Final Plat approval for 2 building lots and 2 common lots on
2.7 acres in an I -L zone for Cafarelli Subdivision No. 2 by Shaun Fickes
— north side of West Franklin Road and west of Linder Road:
De Weerd: Item 11 is FP 04-043. We will --
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is off of Franklin Road. We are
moving out of the north Ustick area. But this is a -- was a four lot preliminary plat and
they are coming through with all four lots on their final plat as shown. It is in substantial
compliance -- basically, exactly the same. There are two open space lots. Those do
border a drive aisle that will lead to the -- or leads to the bus parking facility, the school
district bus parking facility, and the final plat is in substantial compliance with the
approved preliminary plat. I do not have a letter from the applicant on this one.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Is the applicant here this evening? Are you in agreement
with the staff comments? Okay. The applicant is in agreement. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 16 of 66
Rountree: I move that we approve Item No. 11, FP 04-043, final plat for the Cafarelli
Sub No. 2, subject to staff comments.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 13. Is there any further
discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. We have entered the Public Hearing section of our
agenda this evening. We do require by ordinance that anyone wishing to provide
testimony be sworn in and so if you do and intend to provide testimony on Items 12
through 16, if you will, please, raise your right hand. Applicants -- I always love it when
staff does it, so -- and that includes applicants as well. So, is the testimony you provide
tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth? If so, answer I will.
(Affirmative answers.)
Item 12: Public Hearing: AZ 04-010 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 4.10
acres from RUT to L -O zone for proposed Brockton Subdivision by
Confluence Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road:
Item 13: Public Hearing: PP 04-013 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 10
commercial building lots on 4.10 acres for proposed Brockton
Subdivision by Confluence Management, L.L.C. - 3665 North Locust
Grove Road:
Item 14: Public Hearing: CUP 04-012 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development for proposed Brockton Subdivision with request
for reduction to the required landscape buffer along the north, south and
west boundaries and reduced or no lot frontage by Confluence
Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Items 12, 13, and 14 are all related and I will open those
three items on AZ 04-010, PP 04-013, and CUP 04-012. We will open these items with
staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we are back up to Linder north of
Ustick area. The site is located just east of a portion of Heritage Commons, just south
of their entryway. This purple area is the new fire station on Locust Grove. I'm sorry.
Locust Grove, not Linder. I always do that, don't I. As you can see here, some of the
subdivisions are newer. The two schools are across the street. And this entrance
would line up with the subdivision to the east. This is the plat, but we are going to go to
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 17 of 56
the site plan, because it's difficult to see on that one. The applicant is proposing to zone
the entire site limited office. It's 4.10 acres in size and it would accommodate ten office
lots. You can see outlines of the structures here. One. Two. Three. Four. Five. Six.
Seven. Eight. Nine -- I lost one.
Bird: No, there is ten. There is three across the one side, one --
Canning: Oh, here is one there. Yeah.
Bird: Yeah.
Canning: So, one, two. There we go. Sorry about that.
Bird: They shoved a little tiny one in there on you.
Canning: It would be a total of 29,742 square feet of office buildings. They are small.
Each building is on an individual lot. They are requesting a planned development and
as part of that planned development for the amenities they are proposing two gazebo
areas, one at the north of the site and one at the south of the site. They are also
proposing a pedestrian access to the south. It would be just behind the fire station lot
here. And they have proposed a stub drive aisle to the north. There are currently no
stubs coming from Quenzer into the property along the west property line and they have
proposed one entrance to Locust Grove on the east. And, as I said before, it aligns with
the subdivision entrance. In the staff report Mr. Hood spent quite a bit of time -- and,
hopefully, you got a chance to read it -- regarding the question of the neighborhood
centers, which would seem to be the outstanding issue on this application as we go
forward. In the Comprehensive Plan the neighborhood centers were kind of -- if you
envision this as Locust Grove, this property would be at the -- kind of the edge of that
neighborhood center. The Comprehensive Plan intends that those core commercial
areas would be at -- at kind of the apex of that center, half section lane. What we have
seen so far is Quenzer Commons and their commercial area would be just -- just off
center in one area. We had Razzberry come through -- Razzberry Subdivision and they
were right at the edge and they have proposed offices at the edge and, then, Brockton
would, again, be at the edge proposing office uses. Staff was kind of in a quandary.
The target set by the Comprehensive Plan have been -- will be exceeded once this sub
-- if this subdivision is approved. So, staff is unclear as to what will be appropriate for
the other intervening properties where, really, the core commercial activities were
proposed and those are vacant -- some of those are still vacant at this time. As Mr.
Nichols would do if he were here, remind me that the Comprehensive Plan is just a
guide to growth and development, but staff still takes it very seriously and we were kind
of not clear where the city wanted to go as far as making the finding that this was
consistent with the Comprehensive Plan, because we do seem to be exceeding those
non-residential square footage areas. As envisioned, it would be core commercial and,
then, higher density development of residential development around that, rather than a
strip office commercial development, which is a bit of what we are afraid of in this
instance. And you can see some of those properties. This was Razzberry in this
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July 13, 2004
Page 16 of 56
location here. We currently have an application on these properties. This is the
Quenzer Commons commercial property. And here we are down -- here is the Brockton
Subdivision piece. There is one small intervening piece here as well and, then, there is
our fire station. This does come forward to you with a recommendation for approval
from the Planning and Zoning Commission. They held a hearing on June 3rd and the
following people testified. Staff. Mrs. McKay testified for the developer in favor of the
application. Beverly Donahue, who has also, I believe, submitted a letter, lives in this
small -undeveloped property just south of the entrance drive. Joe Canning testified
about the concern over the city approving other future developments in the area for non-
residential uses if the development is approved. The Commission discussion focused
on the neighborhood center concept and the amount of non-residential uses within the
center. They also discussed the drive aisle and amenities being in easements, rather
than common -- in a common lot and that there is a -- kind of a rather lengthy note there
on your summary sheet. The Planning and Zoning Commission wanted to not make it a
requirement that the applicant put all the amenities in their own lot. Right now they do
share -- basically share a lot with some of the buildings. But their motion was not clear
that that should be taken out, but their discussion was pretty clear. So, staffs left it in
for now, but we do anticipate that if -- I guess we anticipate that that will come out based
on their recommendation, but that, of course, is up to the Council. And that would be
condition number six on page 20 of the conditional use permit recommendations. As
that reads now it -- let's see. We should strike the sentence that said gazebo areas
shall be incorporated into common lots, so -- and just -- instead just put it: All future lots
within the development have an access to the amenities through a recorded easement.
And I can repeat that. If that's the way that Council wants to go, I can repeat that again
later. And, then, the last sentence would completely come out. And with that rather
confusing last note, I'm sorry; I will end staffs presentation.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions for staff at this point?
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here?
Canning: Mrs. McKay, if you want to use the large boards, I need to remind you to use
the display over by the wall and the pointer.
McKay: Yeah.
Canning: Okay.
McKay: Just trying to get my stuff stabilized. Becky McKay with Engineering Solutions,
150 East Aikens, Suite B, Eagle. I'm representing the applicant in this matter. This
particular site, as Anna indicated, is not very large. It's 3.8 acres of usable area. The
4.1 is the area that's being annexed and rezoned due to taking in the right of way, but
it's 3.8 acres. The site is -- hold on. The site is 329 by 507 feet and it's situated on a
minor arterial, it has one existing house on it, and I think an accessory building. As
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 19 of 56
Anna indicated, we have the new Meridian fire station located on this lot here. There is
a single family dwelling located back here that takes access via a flag lot. And, then,
there is a parcel that's about one and a quarter acres to the north of us that adjoins
Heritage Commons collector roadway and, then, Heritage Commons wraps around our
western boundary. In looking at this site, it was very limited in what we could do with it
and we did study the Comprehensive Plan for the mixed use neighborhood centers and
we struggled coming -- trying to come up with a unique, creative type concept that
would, obviously, be acceptable to the neighbors, would benefit the city and the
community, and would also be a viable project. One of the keys that we saw in there
was the fact that it talks about creating interconnectivity, limiting access to the arterials,
which we did that by aligning with Summerfield. We have one access point here. We
widened that to 30 feet versus the 25 to allow for easier ingress and egress. We
oriented our buildings on the exterior, kind of varying them so we didn't have a wall of
buildings in size and shape and, then, oriented all of the parking in what we kind of call
a Y configuration internally, so we don't have the sea of parking being the focal feature
from the minor arterial like we find in like a strip commercial development and in multiple
access points to the arterial, we have one common access in alignment and, then, this
internal access here with the parking, with landscaped islands, with all the radiuses that
meet the fire department's 48 -foot radius and, then, this Y concept allowing -- if a fire
truck did have to enter it, they would have access via Locust Grove, but if they did have
to enter, they could come in here and, then, come back out. These radiuses also meet
fire department requirements. The parcel to the north has access to Locust Grove at
this time. It's a residential parcel. However, in Ada County Highway District's staff
report it stated due to the close proximity of that parcel to the Heritage Commons
collector, access would not be allowed if that parcel were to redevelop. Therefore, we
did provide an inter -connective cross -access to that parcel, as you can see it right there,
via us. Now, according to the applicant -- and staff did confirm this for us today -- when
the Council at that time approved Heritage Commons, they restricted their connection to
Heritage's collector for residential purposes only and did not allow any -- any access if it
were to redevelop as office or a day care or whatever. So, they are kind of in a pickle
and I have met with Mrs. Donahue -- we had a neighborhood meeting, she attended, we
got some residents from Summerfield, we showed them our plan, the neighborhood was
very excited about it, they said that they thought it was a perfect use, residential
compatible office, single level, stucco, masonry type design. They voiced that they did
not want like multi -family or something along that line and they were very, very pleased.
We talked to Mrs. Donahue about providing similar fencing along this northern boundary
to match what Heritage Commons has installed next to her on the west, coordinating
with her on the piping of ditches, waste water, and seeing what we can do about coming
up with a pressurized irrigation system that could potentially benefit both parcels, since
they are both very small. As Anna indicated, in your Comprehensive Plan it is a guiding
document, it talks about the goals, it specifically states under the mixed use that the
following standards will serve as general guidelines for development in mixed-use
areas. It talks -- it goes on later on to talk about multi -family. It says where feasible
multi -family residential will be encouraged in some of these multi -use areas. This
particular parcel is just so small, to try to integrate other uses is just not really workable
and would not be viable. I spoke with the gentleman who developed I guess one of the
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July 13, 2004
Page 20 of 56
parcels out at Ustick in Boise city and he had tried to do a vertically integrated type
project, it had a town home component and, then, these vertically integrated offices,
putting apartments above it. He happened to be at my hearing at the Planning and
Zoning Commission and he pulled me aside outside and he said you have noticed we
have never built the vertically integrated product, because there is no market for it out in
the suburban areas. The market for it is in the core -- the city cores. We are seeing it
like downtown Boise. But he said I can't -- I can't find anyone that wants to purchase
that type of thing, build that type of thing, or loan any money on that type of product.
So, obviously, you know, we are market driven and I feel that we have come up with a
good design, we have installed a lot of landscaping, we are meeting all of the buffering,
future right of way, we have got a pedestrian connection here, vehicular and pedestrian
connection to the north. Since Heritage Commons did not do any interconnectivity here,
I can't connect to them, but people from that Heritage Commons could come down their
collector and if Mrs. Donahue's property were redeveloped, they could walk down via
her pedestrian network and come into this site. Your ordinance mandates six percent
landscaping within the hard surface area. We have approximately nine percent, so I
think, you know, we have done a real good job trying to come up with a development
that we can build along a minor arterial, but yet can still be compatible with the single
family residential that we are going to have on our western boundary and for a little
parcel like this there is not a heck of a lot more that I can do. We did provide some
pictures of the type of product that our client would like to buy or build. Sorry. Like I
said, they are stucco, different stucco designs, with masonry. Some have brick. Some
have like a river rock. They all have like architectural type shingles. They are very
compatible. These particular buildings on Eagle Road, they are all single level, they
back up to the Legends Subdivision, which is middle to higher end single family
residential. It's a good project. I also wanted to submit for the record some pictures that
we took today of a similar project over on Overland and, interesting enough, this one is
right next to Boise city's fire station, the old Whitney fire station on Overland. It's the
same type of concept. They came in with one access to the arterial and it comes into
an office complex. They have brick stucco type buildings and, as you can see, all of the
-- this is right next to the old Whitney fire station on Overland -- the Boise city fire
station, I believe, and they did the same thing. One driveway access coming in. All of
the buildings are oriented like the new urbanism on the exterior and, then, when we
have the buildings oriented along the arterial you get two very nice elevations, because
the buildings have so much visibility. They have visibility on the exterior and on the
interior and you can see --
De Weerd: Do you want to -- do we have the item up and going that she can show
those?
McKay: The item up and going?
De Weerd: The overhead. That way everyone can see what you're showing to us.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 21 of 56
McKay: But, anyway, it makes for a very nice development, very esthetically pleasing,
and that's what we were trying to promote. I also kind of made you up a little map here
that I will show prior to my conclusion --
De Weerd: And, again, I would ask that you put it --
McKay: To put it on the overhead?
De Weerd: So everyone can see that.
McKay: This basically is just a map showing McMillan to Ustick and, then, a half -mile
west of Locust Grove. And the orange is what your neighborhood center designation --
what that's doing there. You have Havasu Creek that's taking up this area. You have
Heritage Commons that's developing is this area. And as you can see what's left there
are two five -acre parcels. Sisters own that. There is a house on each one. They were
very anti -redevelopment and, then, you have got --
De Weerd: Becky, why don't we go ahead and put that up.
McKay: Is she about ready? Oh, there you go. As you can see, this is your
neighborhood center overlaid onto an assessor's map. Havasu Creek has taken up this
area. Heritage Commons has developed this area, so what we have left is we have
Mrs. Donahue's parcel, we have the subject property right here where it says site.
There are two five -acre parcels, one here and one here, each with a single-family
dwelling who shares a private road access. They are two sisters who raise registered
horses and when I met with them when I was working on Havasu Creek, said that it was
their intent not to redevelop, that they loved it out there, and so as far as the
neighborhood center, the core being at the half mile, that has not happened. Instead,
what we have here is a situation of large properties coming in prior to the neighborhood
center concept being adopted and, therefore, not really incorporating that half mile
collector like is envisioned in that diagram, which is a concept only, that's in your
Comprehensive Plan. So, we have a fragmented system of small five acre, ten acre --
these are two five acre parcels here that we are trying to, I guess, meet -- somehow
meet the intent of that neighborhood center. Your Comprehensive Plan talks about for
the neighborhood center having ten acres of non-residential, but it doesn't stipulate -- it
talks about these being guidelines, it doesn't stipulate that that is a mandate and I don't
know -- like I told the Planning and Zoning Commission, how do -- how does one
determine who gets the ten acres and how that ten acres is allocated. Is it first come
first serve? Is it -- you know, it's something that, obviously, I guess my point is
discretionary and it is not -- it's ten acres period and nothing. We have got these
fragmented small parcels and there is only so much we can do with 3.8 acres. I have
about maxed out the creativity that I can come up with on that one and I thought that
considering what we had to work with, we did a good job. And do you have any
questions?
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
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July 13, 2004
Page 22 of 56
Bird: I have none, Mayor.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I disagree with you, Becky. I mean I do recognize that it's not going to
look like the map in the book. I recognize that. But it is supposed to be a mixed use
and there is no mixed use on this property and there are office buildings right next to it.
I mean in that -- that front part of Heritage Commons is office buildings, too, and if I took
your argument, then, it means that if they basically built this entire thing out into office
buildings, we'd really throw the whole mixed use idea out. I mean I guess I'm not -- the
whole intent, I thought -- or at least for me, I believe that neighborhood center was to
eventually entice people to stay in their neighborhood, to create a neighborhood feel.
Ten office buildings in four acres -- less than four acres doesn't have any neighborhood
feel at all to me, unless all of the people in Heritage Commons and Havasu Creek go to
the dentist there, there isn't any -- there isn't anything that keeps people there. That's
the intent of the mixed use to me. Now, it is a small piece of property, but if you could
squeeze ten buildings on there, I guess I'm not sure why this can't be mixed use. It
doesn't have to be residential and office. I wouldn't have a big heartburn with some of
the smaller commercial types of properties that can, again, keep people in their
neighborhoods and not have them drive all the way down Locust Grove to Fairview just
to go get coffee or just to go get -- to pick up a pizza. That's the intent and I guess I
don't think this got it. It looks good. It looks very nice. And the buildings look very
good, but it looks to me like that string of office buildings when I drive north on Eagle
Road and I get near Hobble Creek and all I see is one office building after another after
you pass Lowell Scott and there are all these little pods of office buildings that are on
the west side of -- or the east side of Eagle Road. That doesn't look like a
neighborhood to me. It looks like a strip of office buildings. So, I guess I don't agree
with you that you couldn't do it more as to what the intent was and I guess I don't see
how we make that finding that it's compliant or consistent with the Comprehensive Plan,
because it doesn't appear to me to be at all consistent.
McKay: Mr. Mayor -- Mr. Nary, when you look at the Eagle Road corridor, it's a
completely different concept, because I did both those office complexes along Eagle
Road after you pass Lowell Scott. The one for Legends. One our parking was oriented
to the exterior, so that is what you see from Eagle Road is you see parking and, then,
you see buildings. We used a line of buildings and we didn't create a complex. They
were interconnected, but no complex, it was just one driveway. When we get north to
the Eagle Medical Plaza, we had one approach and, then, we had like a little cluster of
three brick buildings in that one. That particular site was a challenging site, too,
because, like this one, you saw everything develop around it and it became kind of a left
over that no one provided any interconnectivity to. I guess the point I'm trying to make
is Heritage Commons -- when the Council approved Heritage Commons, they did not
approve Heritage Commons based on this neighborhood center concept. Had they
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July 13, 2004
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approved them, we -- we would have had the interconnectivity through Mrs. Donahue, a
full interconnectivity, and interconnectivity to this parcel. They provided no
interconnectivity along the western boundary of our parcel. The connectivity here is for
residential purposes only. So, what has happened is when the Council approved
Heritage Commons, they isolated these two parcels. No public street stubs were given
to them and no cross -access, other than the residential restricted access here. So, now
we are left with the 3.8 and, then, Mrs. Donahue's 1.25 and trying to deal with the
guidelines of the Comprehensive Plan and make this fit or interconnect. The only
interconnection -- I got the fire station. I have no interconnection with them. These
buildings are not your traditional big office buildings. They are 2,000 to 4,000 square
feet and I don't think you're going to see all dentists in there. The other thing we are
seeing in some of these areas is people like to have their office close to their home, so
instead of driving out to Fairview to their office, if they are an accountant, for example,
they can buy a lot and build an office there and live in Heritage Commons. They could
walk to work via the sidewalks that we construct along Locust Grove and interconnect to
theirs. I guess on these big parcels we have an open slate and we can come in and do
some really neat things. With these little parcels, the Council has to understand that
there is only so many things that can be done. If this was 30.8 acres and I was coming
in with a single use, I would expect the Council to have serious concerns. But this is
3.8. And this was the best use. The neighbors like it. It's a low traffic generator. I'm
limiting my access. I'm using new urbanism concepts. I'm orienting all my hard
surfaces on the internal -- I don't know what else that I could do to please the Council as
far as trying to make this a viable, esthetically pleasing project.
Nary: Well -- and I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.
McKay: Okay.
Nary: I do think it's across the street from two high schools; it's going to be dentists and
orthodontists. I am positive it will be dentists and orthodontists, because that's what we
get across from Mountain View, that's what we get across from schools now. And that's
perfectly fine and there is some value to that. I'm not discounting that. But there is no
attempt here to do anything else but build office buildings. If you can build ten buildings
in four acres, some of them can be something else and there isn't even that and I guess
that's -- that's our disagreement. If they are all just office buildings, I think it's -- it's not
the intent of what to me the neighborhood centers were meant to do. They were meant
to basically create a neighborhood. I don't live in a neighborhood that has ten office
buildings within two blocks. I just think it's -- I think it's too much.
De Weerd: Any further questions from Council?
Bird: Not right now.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Becky
McKay: Thank you.
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July 13, 2004
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De Weerd: I do have two people signed up to testify. Joe Canning. Did you participate
in the swearing-in process?
J.Canning: Yes, I did.
De Weerd: Okay. If you will just state your name and address.
J.Canning: Yes. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, my name is Joe Canning, the
address is 5505 West Franklin Road in Boise, and I'm here tonight representing the
applicant on one of the other projects that's north of here. It should be before the
Planning and Zoning Commission in a few weeks. And the only thing I really want to
say is that -- I guess I'm speaking basically on that ten -acre limit in the neighborhood
center. Our particular project is ten acres in size, it is mixed use, we are proposing
approximately two acres of the ten to go to commercial and/or professional offices. So,
I have this concern with the Comp Plan, call it, on the ten acres, and I just wanted to
come tonight and I guess put the Council on notice that there is another one coming
down the pipeline, that it has another two acres of non-residential use in it. So, that's it,
unless there are any questions.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much.
J.Canning: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. I also have Bev Donahue. Okay. If you will just state your name and
address.
Donahue: Beverly Donahue at 3775 North Locust Grove Road, Meridian, Idaho. 83642.
1 just wanted to make sure you guys all got the letter that I faxed.
De Weerd: Yes.
Donahue: I'm for this and the people in the subdivision on the east side, Summerfield, is
also for this, due to the fact we live in the neighborhood, we are the ones that are going
to be shopping there, we are the ones that are going to be going and using these ten
units. We feel that this would be more of an asset where we are located and that's why
we are for it. We are also -- we are a little concerned about the fire station next door,
which is in my letter, due to safety for number one, because if you put more housing
right there, the kids are going to be running up and down the sidewalks and if there is
an emergency that the fire truck has to get to, you know, I don't want to see a child get
hurt, killed -- you also have people that if they are living next to a fire department, the
sirens are going off, there is -- working in a medical facility myself, we have a lot of post-
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July 13, 2004
Page 25 of 56
traumatic syndrome syndromes and I'm just a little concern, because people that buy
these, I don't think they are aware of the noise and what it could do to them in their
neighborhood. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Is there anyone else who would like to offer testimony on this
application? Okay. Hearing none, would you like to have any response, Becky?
McKay: Just briefly I'd just like to state --
De Weerd: If you will just restate your name.
McKay: Becky McKay. It's not very often we have a neighborhood that supports us in
an application and comes out and testifies in favor. So, I was really ecstatic to have that
happen at the neighborhood meeting and get praise from the neighbors and I think this
is a good project. I really do. And the city is always saying, you know, we need more
commercial, the tax dollars are there, the impact on our facilities and our services is less
and I think this is a great project and we have incorporated all of the latest comp
planning concepts we can to make this as attractive as possible and I think residential
compatible office next to the suburbs is where we are heading. Out in Bridge Tower, for
example, every office lot that we have platted and built has been purchased and I think
what we are seeing is the price of office lots out on like Fairview, the Eagle Road
corridors, it's running nine, ten, eleven, twelve dollars a square foot and so you're
seeing the guy that has, you know, a three person accounting firm or someone like me,
a six person planning and engineering firm, we can't afford to pay 12 dollars a square
foot, so we are going out to the suburbs close to where we live, close to where our
employees live, and purchasing lots like this and most of them don't generate any traffic,
because they don't have a lot of people that -- you know, clients. It's more a place to
work, a place that's close to your office, and -- or close to your home. Sorry. And I think
that's really important. And we have been working -- for my firm, for example, we have
been looking at different sites to construct an office building and we found the most
centrally located site we could based on where all our employees lived and it happens
to be in Meridian off of Pine, if everything goes well. So, I think this meets the goals. I
really really really do. I don't know if Mr. Nary would feel better if I had a Starbuck's on
the corner. Maybe I would -- you could throw one in. I don't know. But that's all I have
to say. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any further information needed? Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, maybe not further information, but just, I guess, a comment on
my opinion of the Comprehensive Plan and how it sits here and I think when we had
approved Heritage Commons we thought we were moving closer to that -- to that goal
of neighborhood centers and even -- and mixed use and I did a tour with Anna during
the AIC conference where we touted that as one of our projects and talked about the
office near it and how the school is near it and how those fit into our view of the
Comprehensive Plan and so I guess my concern that we -- that the Comprehensive
Plan constrains with the exact amount of acreage, whether that be ten acres in this
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July 13, 2004
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case, doesn't necessarily concern me, because I think the fact that this project -- this
project looks good to me, even though it doesn't include a Starbuck's. But I think --
De Weerd: It could.
Wardle: But it could. I think taking into account Mrs. Donahue's comments and the fact
that I agree that residential next to the -- right next to the fire station probably wouldn't
work very well and the neighbors agree that office would work and so I'm not as
concerned with those comprehensive constraints being set in stone, as much as they
are guidelines for us to shoot for.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess so everybody understands where I'm coming from, I agree with the
neighbors, I don't necessarily think this location right there -- if this worked. If this
location where this is would be appropriate for residential, multi -family -- I don't
necessarily agree with that. I think the neighbors are right. Most neighbors do like to
have offices next to their house, because they are closed at night, they are generally
low traffic and all that. So, I don't disagree with any of those things. But I guess -- and
it doesn't matter to me if it's three to one, but I can't say to Mrs. McKay that this needs
some commercial to have -- to create that neighborhood idea, if I don't -- if I want to tell
this person or that person or that person, because, otherwise, it becomes all offices and
no residential and no commercial -- no anything and it doesn't feel like a neighborhood
anymore. It just feels like a strip mall of offices. So, if I don't tell Mrs. McKay that, I
can't tell this person that or Mr. Canning in the back row, or anybody else, because the
intent to me was to have a neighborhood. This happens to be the first one and I
understand that and it is small and it looks very nice, so I don't disagree with any of
those things, but I don't think they are going to put a Starbuck's there, because they
wouldn't be asking for this to be an office zone if this was a Starbuck's, they would be
asking to be a commercial and office zone. If it were commercial, I wouldn't have a
problem, because there is a need for a small neighborhood commercial in this area, so
that people don't have to drive down Locust Grove or north on Locust Grove to go
somewhere else to get something else. But that's my intent. It's not because it looks
bad or any of those things, I just think the intent of the neighborhood center was to
create a neighborhood and in each of those as they develop, I would like them to create
that neighborhood for us.
McKay: Thank you.
Canning: Madam Mayor, there was one point I forgot to mention and Mr. Nary's
comments reinforced it, but part of the idea of having a little higher density residential is
to, in fact, support the commercial development that's intended for those areas as well
and that was part of Mr. Hood's concern in the staff report is that if this is all -- if we
don't get the higher density residential developments, then, we won't have the density of
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July 13, 2004
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people needed to eventually support the commercial core that was envisioned by these
neighborhood centers as well.
De Weerd: Anna, what is just to the west of that parcel? Has that been zoned or
platted?
Canning: This is part of Quenzer.
Bird: That's Quenzer.
De Weerd: Okay.
Canning: And it's already been platted, it's just this map doesn't have the --
Bird: They are starting to build that, I think.
Canning: Individual lots.
De Weerd: And there is no stub streets —
Canning: No, there is not.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I think given the constraints that have been put on by surrounding
neighborhoods and past actions of the Council, the concept of this being a center I
agree with, but we have not really provided for it in terms of getting people out of their
car and being able to access this site by bike or pedestrian. They are going to have to
come to the minor arterial and get to this site and for that reason I tend to lean toward
what Bill's saying, but I also see that given those constraints, this probably is a really
good use in terms of limiting the amount of traffic at that access point on that facility
and, actually, having something that, yes, in fact, we do have the neighbors agree with
and having been on the Council previously and having Mrs. Donahue support this, that
goes a long way with me, I'll tell you.
Nary: That's very persuasive.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
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July 13, 2004
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Bird: I'll put my two cents worth in. I agree with -- you know, we did plan on a center,
but it is small, we didn't -- at the time we did this we didn't know we was going to have a
fire station there, which I think brings a lot into the picture, and they have got
Summerfield satisfied, evidently. I think it's basically about the only thing that can go in
there right now and I agree with Mr. Nary that we can all sit here and say what's going
to be there, whether it's going to be dentist's office or pediatricians or something or --
you know, which nothing wrong with that. So, I think it's a very very nice development.
I wished it was a little larger, so we could be mixed use, but it isn't.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, if there is no further questions for the applicant or staff, I would
entertain --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Rountree: I move that we close the public hearings for Items 12, 13, and 14.
Bird: I will second that.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearings on Items
12, 13, and 14. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Just a quick question for Anna. Anna, the condition number six, is that in the
CUP?
Canning: Yes, sir.
Wardle: Okay. I will have you help me with that when I get to that.
De Weerd: Yes, sir.
Wardle: Thank you. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 12, AZ 04-010, request for annexation and
zoning of Brockton Subdivision and to include all staff, applicant, and public comments.
Rountree: I will second that.
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July 13, 2004
Page 29 of 56
De Weerd: Too much going on, on the right of me. Okay. Item 12, there is a motion to
approve AZ 04-010. Is there any further discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, nay.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 13.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I move that we approve Item No. 13, PP 04-013, request for
preliminary plat, Brockton Subdivision, to include all staff, applicant, and public
comments.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 13, PP 04-013. Any further
discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, nay.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 14. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Mrs. Canning, if you could, please, give me a little direction on item number six.
Canning: Item number six, the second sentence should read: All future lot owners within
the development shall have access to the amenities through a recorded easement. And
the third sentence should be struck.
Wardle: Could you repeat that first -- I'm sorry, I was --
Canning: All future lot owners within the development shall have access to the
amenities through a recorded easement. And the third sentence should be deleted.
Wardle: Okay. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 14, CUP 04-012, Brockton Subdivision, and to
change condition number six, the second sentence, to read: All future lot owners should
have access to recorded amenities via easement and to strike the third sentence from
that. To also include all staff, applicant, and public comments.
Bird: Second.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 30 of 56
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 14, CUP 04-012. Any
further discussion? Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, nay.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
Item 15: Public Hearing: ZOA 04-001 Request for Zoning Ordinance Amendment
to allow small antennas to be mounted on existing and new light and
power poles within residential, office, commercial and industrial
subdivisions by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc:
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg. Item 15 is a Public Hearing on VOA 04-001. 1 will
open this Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a zoning ordinance
amendment request that is being brought forward not from staff, but from an applicant,
and perhaps the best -- the recommendation provided to you from staff has the revised
language as it came out of the Planning and Zoning Commission and I think that's
probably the best place to start. The zoning ordinance amendment is fairly simple.
They have added a number of definitions for the term antenna and -- but their primary
request is that these antenna that would look similar to this be allowed to kind of co -
locate on street lights within residential neighborhoods. Currently cell towers are
prohibited in most of the residential districts. So, this would be a way -- they are small
in area, less than five square feet or five square feet or less and they have asked that
they be kind of considered as part of the stealth or camouflage allowances that are
made for cell towers. And the Planning and Zoning Commission has recommended
approval of this zoning ordinance amendment. At that hearing Dave McKinnon testified
in favor of the application. There was no opposition to the application. The
Commission's discussion focused on the -- primarily the areas I have talked about now,
the number of -- and, then, in addition to that, the number of antennas that are likely to
appear under this ordinance was discussed, kind of the question of proliferation and
opportunities for co -location. There was also some discussion on the need for a license
agreement with the city to place antennas on street lights that was either in there or
added and whether the antenna should be allowed only on existing street lights or
whether new ones should be allowed, so that they could -- they would be basically
putting up a new street light for the purpose of putting an antenna on it and review
process would include both Planning and Zoning and Public Works. I think staff is
pretty comfortable with the zoning ordinance amendment. It gives some guidelines for
staff, but it does give a lot of flexibility to both the Planning and Zoning director and the
Public Works director, as far as whether or not these require a conditional use approval.
And with that I will end staffs presentation.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Since there were all kinds of side conversations going on,
did you catch that, Council?
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July 13, 2004
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Bird: Yes, we did.
De Weerd: I do have someone signed up here named Boy Scout.
Bird: Boy Sprout.
De Weerd: Boy Scout. You must be him?
McKinnon: Will Berg, actually, asked me to sign in that way. Dave McKinnon, 735
South Crosstimber. Mayor and Council, as you remember, back in the cold bitter days
of winter I came to you with these little antennas and said we want to do these on
towers. It was in a pre -Council meeting. And you said it looks like it's a good idea, let's
go for it, go ahead and submit for it. Now it's the hottest day of summer so far and we
are here back in front of you. Anna did a really good job explaining what this is. We
had a long conversation with the Planning and Zoning Commission, they asked for a
license agreement statement to be placed in there. We have added that as part of the
revisions that you have in front of you. We have worked with -- actually, Bill's not here.
I talked to Bill Nichols about the license agreement and he said it's something that can
be worked out with the city and the applicant. The need for Public Works and Planning
and Zoning to review this has been added to the revised report that you have in front of
you and for the antennas to be allowed only on existing street lights and new ones. We
have added the language to allow for new streetlights to be included. During that
conversation we talked about the fact that the police department and most residential
neighborhoods would rather have more lights than have less lights in the residential
neighborhoods, especially in the older neighborhoods of Meridian where the street
lighting is not adequate right now and so there wasn't an objection from the police
department and staff felt that was a good thing. This is really what we are talking about
tonight, an array of these, basically six of these mounted in a circular pattern, placed on
top of a streetlight, and that's what you would have for wireless internet connectivity. It's
not a cell tower per se, but for wireless internet. This is an antenna and that's why we
have got the new definitions for antennas. These can be placed on the streetlights.
One of these can be placed on a house to receive that and wireless communication for
internet can pass from the house to this router and, then, on to be able to get to the
internet. That's what we are asking for tonight. It's basically a simple request for the
zoning ordinance to be amended to allow that to happen, because under current
ordinances this would not be allowed in a residential district and we'd ask for your
approval tonight.
De Weerd: I did see you carrying a dish.
Bird: Yeah. What's --
De Weerd: What's with that?
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July 13, 2004
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McKinnon: What's the dish? What's with that? If the range for this is too far away from
the one site, this would have to be mounted to that. We are primarily talking about an
array of these. This is something that also could be mounted to a house, just like you
see for satellite dishes, in case the sight distance to the array -- or this to be a relay
station is too far, so there is a possibility for some of these larger parabolic dishes, but
they are still under the five feet in size.
De Weerd: I don't mind seeing that on a house, but on a streetlight, that's a little
different.
Bird: Pull that up so we can take a look at it.
De Weerd: That's on my house. It looks like you took it out of my backyard.
Bird: For your TV?
McKinnon: Okay.
Wardle: Would that be placed on the street -light, Dave, or the house?
McKinnon: There is a possibility for this to be placed on a streetlight. More than likely
this would be placed on a house for the sight distance to get to that pole that has this for
the router.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yeah. I heard you say it was less than five feet in diameter, is that what you said?
McKinnon: Five square feet.
Nary: Right. But the parabolic dish definition doesn't have any foot size in it, it just says
a parabolic -- this is what an antenna is and one of them is a parabolic dish antenna.
McKinnon: That's correct, Councilman Nary, but it says further in the rest of the
ordinance that the antennas would be allowed only if they were under five feet in size.
And so the antenna definition for parabolic dishes includes parabolic dishes that are
much larger than this. It does describe the antenna. The limiting factor for these to be
placed on those would be the size. They would be limited to less than five feet in size.
Nary: Okay. So, that could be on top of a pole and -- but there is still language that the
planning director could decide if it was still --
McKinnon: That's correct.
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July 13, 2004
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Nary: -- hidden enough.
McKinnon: And the Public Works director as well.
De Weerd: Well, how big is that?
McKinnon: That's just about four feet.
Canning: Four square feet.
McKinnon: That's correct.
Canning: We need to get a correct term in there.
Bird: Square feet. That's not no four foot diameter.
McKinnon: That's four square feet.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions?
Nary: Didn't you write the ordinance the way it was already?
McKinnon: I did write the ordinance that way it was, without anticipating that this change
would be needed.
Nary: We seemed to like it the way it was.
Bird: We passed it.
McKinnon: Yeah. We got it through.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much.
McKinnon: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone else who would like to provide
testimony on this application? Hearing none, Council, do you need any further
information from the applicant or for staff before you close the Public Hearing?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: One more question, Mr. McKinnon. One of the things I recall in the previous
discussion we had about this was the intent for stealth was to make it look like the pole.
Now, some of the light poles I know that have these towers on them, they look odd,
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July 13, 2004
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because the light's, you know, ten feet below where the antenna actually is on the pole,
but they all match the pole. I mean they are all black and the pole is black or whatever.
Can that -- is that intended with these types of antennas?
McKinnon: No. And the reason why -- I guess it's a two -fold answer to that question.
This is small enough that we don't believe that it would interfere. It's not something that
stands ten feet above in a cylindrical case; it's something that's small enough that it
would be stealth in and of itself, because of the small size of that.
Nary: Yeah, but you said there is six of them.
McKinnon: Six in an array. It's about this big around.
Nary: So, it's a big halo on top of a light pole is what I'm thinking and if you have got a
black light pole and six of those, it doesn't seem very stealth -like to me.
McKinnon: I'd prefer the term small halo to a big halo.
Nary: Of course you do, but -- so, no, they can't necessarily be made to match the pole?
McKinnon: This is just a plastic area and these can be painted to match.
Nary: Okay. Same thing with that thing?
McKinnon: Sure.
Nary: So, if we inserted language that said they had to match the pole to be considered
to be stealth, that would be okay?
McKinnon: That would be fine.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Along that same line of questioning, how do you propose to make an array of
those -- a halo of those consistent with some of the period type architectural type light
poles that we have in some of the higher end, even middle level neighborhood?
McKinnon: The decorative light features -- that's, again, why we have the discretion of
the Planning and Zoning Commission -- or the Planning and Zoning director to be able
to make that call. It's something we discussed quite a bit at the Planning and Zoning
level where we said these aren't intended to go on decorative light fixtures. Typically in
those types of neighborhoods you have the taller 35 -foot lights at the entrance and once
you get inside from there they have the decorative light fixtures. These are not intended
to go on those.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
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De Weerd: I guess as someone with a light pole in my front yard, you know, I would
hope that I would be consulted by the planning staff before something -- I wouldn't want
that in my front yard, because it is in my front yard, and it would look -- I like halos, but I
don't think I'd want that in my front yard. So, you know, as far as a neighborhood, I
guess, I would like the assurance that when those decisions are made the neighbors
are consulted or if it is in someone's front yard, that that person does have something to
say about it, especially the dish. I wouldn't want that.
McKinnon: Like I said, if the smaller arrays can be placed on, there won't be a need for
the larger dishes. It's just this is a distance. It's a -- right now this is a line -of -sight
product and if the distance gets too far away from that, then, these are needed, but right
now these are planned to go into the newer neighborhoods where they are expecting
and they are advertising for the wireless internet connectivity and that's the area this
would start in. It wouldn't start for those other smaller neighbors right now, but if there is
a demand for that that would move forward in the future.
De Weerd: Who maintains them?
McKinnon: The owner of the --
De Weerd: So, if they are painted, they will keep them painted?
McKinnon: Yes.
De Weerd: And if there is ever an issue with that pole, would you share in the cost of
that repair?
McKinnon: The license agreement typically handles that. It's very similar to a license
agreement that you'd see with Ada County Highway District, where you have
landscaping in their right of way you're required to maintain that in such a manner that
ACHD or the public allows that to be -- I guess just to make it properly maintained.
De Weerd: Okay.
McKinnon: And the license agreement could spell that out.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: Yeah, Madam Mayor, I got a question.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Is there any percentage of what has to have that bigger hanger put up over just the
little ones? Is there any percent? Fifty percent or what --
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 36 of 56
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, while Dave is conferring with his
applicant, I did want to point out that the definition for stealth addresses some of those
issues. I was looking for any reference to the paint. It should probably be in the
definition of stealth tower and it has the including, but not limited to, and we may want to
put similar paint to the utility pole that it's on. It talks about making use of utility poles,
but it doesn't address color and paint. That might be the appropriate place for that
change.
McKinnon: It sounds like I missed something while I was conferring, but the need for
these dishes -- this is what we intend to have is this. It's not for those. There is maybe
a possibility for that. As far as a percentage, the percentage would be very low for
these, because this is what we intend and this is what the client wants to have. It's
better for them to utilize these than those and so as a percentage goes this would be a
very low percentage use compared to these. They don't have this product in Idaho right
now and it's hard for me to say right now this is exactly what the percentage would be,
but the intention is to use these.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. McKinnon, I'm looking -- I think Mrs. Canning pointed out that probably we
would need to -- if we were to approve this ordinance, we'd also need to amend 11-22-3
and the definitions of stealth to include that the appearance of the product -- the
appearance of these antennas would have to be of the same like texture and color of
the pole they were attached to, so that they did blend into it and they couldn't put any
advertising on it. Would that be problematic?
McKinnon: No.
Nary: Okay. But I also look at 11-22-4, camouflage tower review -- now, unless there is
a different spot for it -- in there it says stealth, hidden, or otherwise camouflaged cell
tower shall be reviewed by the Planning and Zoning director to determine if a
conditional use permit shall be required, stealth or otherwise hidden tower shall not
exceed the height limitation of the zone for which it is located.
McKinnon: Okay. Councilman Nary, are you reading from the recommendation from the
Planning and Zoning Commission?
Nary: No. I'm reading from the city code
McKinnon: Okay. It's been modified.
Nary: Okay. To give notice to the neighbors?
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 37 of 56
McKinnon: No. What you just read -- I was trying to following along. I have got a copy
of 11-22-413 that you were just reading, as modified by the P&Z Commission at our
hearing.
Nary: Oh, I see.
McKinnon: And it read much different than that. It said camouflage tower and antenna
review, stealth and hidden or otherwise camouflaged cell towers and new antennas that
are less than five square feet in area, can be mounted onto existing poles, buildings,
towers, et cetera, or street lights, shall be reviewed by the Planning and Zoning director
and Public Works director and their designees.
Nary: Thank you. The certificate of zoning compliance process, Mrs. Canning, is that
providing notice to neighbors?
Canning: No. We could make that -- if that's the desire of the Council, we could make
that an accessory use. The accessory use process does notify neighbors. The
question becomes what do we do if they complain, similar to the fence ordinance. We
probably need to think a little bit more about it if we are making an accessory use as to
what we do if one of the neighbors does complain.
Nary: Because that would be my concern. I mean I would assume most of these are
going to be in neighborhoods, mostly, because that's who's using wireless networks, so
-- but if it is outside someone's -- you know, right next to their driveway, they may have
more of a concern if it looks like that thing, instead of those little things, and at least
they'd want to see at -- or at least have some notice of what it is before they do that, so
what do you think about that?
McKinnon: Madam Mayor, Councilman Nary, the Planning and Zoning director has the
discretion, if it's the Council's wish, that all of the parabolic dishes would be required to
have the neighborhood, you know, notification and that the smaller antennas not be
required to do that. That's something that can be directed directly to the Planning and
Zoning director and those ones would come back to you, not just as a certificate of
zoning compliance, but, rather, through the CUP process. And through the CUP
process all neighbors within 300 feet would be notified. And that's the way that 22-4
was modified to read is either through the CZC or the Conditional Use Permit process at
the discretion of the Planning and Zoning director.
De Weerd: I don't know, Mr. McKinnon -- I guess I look at our street and all of the
streetlights are very visible. If you go into our older neighborhoods where you have
some cover by trees, street trees or anything else, they are not so noticeable, but all I
can envision is the halo on top of the street light in front of my yard and when you drive
down that road, that's going to be the first thing you see, because that -- I already don't
like that street light right there, but I live with it. but to have a halo that's going to even
draw more attention to it, I know I would like the opportunity to comment. But, you know
I guess, my point is -- but, you know, I guess when someone has that visibility in their
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 38 of 56
front yard, that -- and it can detract from their home, they should have the ability to know
that something is going to change and I guess that's my biggest concern. Yes, I
appreciate your comment on the dish, but I do think 12 -- or six of those in a halo effect,
will change the appearance of that street light and I believe that the neighbors do
deserve to know that that has a possibility of happening, but I don't even have a vote, so
-- Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a comment about the use of what is currently kind of a
utilitarian sort of street light, which is needed in the neighborhoods to create some
business opportunities is something we are talking about and while I do agree that
many of the neighbors in Meridian would certainly like to comment on your dish on any
of their poles, I think that our Planning and Zoning director and Public Works staff have
fairly good judgment and would utilize that when approving any of these other types of
things with our direction. So, I like the use, because I think the end product is a service
for those neighbors within the community, but we do need to be sensitive to the overall
visual effect to our city.
De Weerd: And I agree with you and I know our staff has good judgment. That's not my
concern. As a citizen I would like the opportunity to comment and as a taxpayer who
pays for those lights and maintains those lights, if you're going to put a business venture
on top of them and it is in my front yard, I would like the ability to comment on that. So,
I -- and I don't -- I don't doubt the judgment of our staff on this, I just -- I just think that
the public has -- should have an opportunity to make a comment and that's -- I won't say
anymore on that.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess for me, Dave, I would only be supportive of what you're proposing with the
language that was amended if we included an amendment to the stealth definition that
required it match the pole and that we change the section for 11-22-5-A-2 that you have
already asked to amend and allow the new antennas that are less than five square feet
in area that are already in the existing zones with a certificate of zoning compliance, R-
15, R-40, C -N, and OT, and that the R-2, three, four, and eight all require a CUP,
because I don't -- I don't know what the neighbors will care and if you do this for awhile
and no one cares and we send out notices and nobody cares, then, maybe we would
look to amend it again. But I don't know. We specifically left those out when we created
this ordinance, because of our concerns about neighborhoods and how they would look
and what the appearance would be and that's why we left them in the more -- the non-
residential areas, even though there are a couple of residential ones -- R-15 and R -40s
are generally larger, more commercialized kinds of areas of town. So, at least for me I
think I can only support it if that was further amended that all of those residential zones,
two, three, four, and eight, required CUPS. So, at least I'd know the neighbors had
notice and if they don't care, then, they don't care, but at least I'd know they had some
opportunity to comment.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 39 of 56
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, one other option might be, if this is
acceptable, is we could ask them to submit a letter of consent from any -- all property
owners within 50 -- a 50 mile -- or 50 foot radius. That would get those that are
primarily affected. Right now we do 300 -foot radius, which seems a bit excessive for a
streetlight, maybe. So, if we did everybody within 50 -foot radius or 100 -foot radius, they
just had to get approval. If they can't get the approval, they can move onto the next
one. Then, at least there is some certainty on their part, they just know they have got to
find these places or if they can't find them, maybe it's a conditional use process, if they
can't get approval -- consent from the owners that are -- adjoin that. It's something to
consider, anyway, rather than making all of them go through a CU process.
Nary: I guess my concern would be the same, though, as what the Mayor's previously
stated. You know, if I live in a subdivision and I have got to drive by it every day and I
live one house over, I guess I still feel like I should be able to comment and I know there
has got to be a line somewhere. But, currently, without any changes to our ordinance,
it's either the immediate property owner or 300 feet. We don't really have a lot of
variation in where the noticing requirements are, but -- so, to me, without changing a lot
more ordinances to make that for this particular one, I guess I'd just rather go with the
larger and if we find -- like I said anecdotally that nobody seems to complain and we
have sent them out three or four times and we have done this a bunch and no one
cares, maybe it would make more sense to amend it. But without knowing, we
specifically left those out for a reason and this was the reason that I remember.
McKinnon: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Commissioner Nary -- Councilman
Nary. Commissioner, I think, at the time that we went through this. Just a couple
comments. One, to address what you have hit on, Tammy and you, Bill, are the issues
that -- I have lived in Meridian for about three and a half years now and I can tell you I
can count on my hand -- one hand how many times I have looked at a street light and
said that's a really ugly street light. I very seldom find myself driving along saying I don't
like that street light, that's something that I'm annoyed by with that street light or see
structures on a street light that would annoy me, because I'm typically not viewing up,
I'm looking I guess horizontally across the plane. I know in your case, Mayor, you have
a street light that you don't like and I can understand that, but typically some of the
things that you're looking at, these aren't at eye level, these are not things that you
typically see as you're driving, you will see them -- they are up and you would have to
view up to see them and so it's not typically something that's in your eye view. To
address the issue of whether or not they should be allowed in the R-2, R-3, R-4, and R-
9, one of the major reasons that we have went away from there is to stay away from the
cell towers and these aren't cell towers, these are something much smaller than that.
They are basically taking the existing street light and having an 18 inch tall projection to
the top of that street light and I have no problem agreeing to the changes that you have
made, Councilman Nary, about the -- adding the stealth language, that they have to be
painted and match in texture type of thing. No problem with that. I think that I do like
the idea that Anna had about you're requiring the neighborhood, but if we deal with a
CUP for every antenna, it comes to a point of how many antennas are we going to allow
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 40 of 56
under one Conditional Use Permit. Is it for the whole neighborhood or is it every
individual pole that would require a Conditional Use Permit? If we are trying to do a
neighborhood such as Tuscany Lakes and you have to do several poles, that's a very
large number of people you would have to contact within 300 feet for every single one of
those poles and that's that many conditional use permits that you would have coming in
front of you and going through the Planning and Zoning Commission process and the
City Council would have the hearings for that on each one and I think that you using the
discretion of staff would lessen the load on you, rather than having to have everything
come back to -- having to come to you and the Planning and Zoning Commission. I
think what we tried to accommodate with the Planning and Zoning Commission was to
allow them to come to you if the planning director felt that it was necessary that they
should come to you and they would cause a problem.
De Weerd: I guess it's one thing in an existing residential subdivision versus a new
subdivision, so when they purchase that home, they know -- they already know what it
looks like and there are grades -- I mean not all houses are at the same grade as the
sidewalk and so, you know -- and in my case we sit above and so it is a lot more
noticeable and I'm sure this is not unique, it's probably more common. So, it's going to
be different in an existing residential subdivision. Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: In your crafting this ordinance and thinking of the use of the antenna, not the
antenna itself, you talk about a license agreement with the city. Did the applicant
contemplate a fee structure associated with that license agreement, similar to franchise
fees?
McKinnon: To pay for that, yes, that is something we have discussed and they could
enter into.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: Does that need defined in an ordinance?
Rountree: I think so.
Bird: We have to draw up a franchise agreement
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, maybe Mrs. Holinka can help me out.
I would think that the franchise agreement could follow. It would still be something that
the Council would decide upon, but I'm not sure it needs to be spelled out in the zoning
ordinance. We don't usually see those specifics in the zoning ordinance. ,
De Weerd: I guess I would defer that to the city attorney for response.
Holinka: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think Anna is right with that, I mean I
think you could -- if it's something that has to be approved by the Council, the license
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 41 of 56
agreement has to be approved, then, you're approving the fee anyway, so I don't think it
needs to be a separate ordinance.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions or comments from Council?
McKinnon: Thank you, Mayor, Members of the Council.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to offer testimony in
this application? Okay. Any further comments from staff or the applicant? Council,
what would you like to do?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we close the Public Hearing on Item 15.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 15. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Discussion or motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just --
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: -- for discussion purposes, given some of the unknowns associated with the
discussion we have had and the ordinance, I'm not inclined to act favorably on this
request at this point. I'm concerned about the points that you mentioned, Mayor, in
terms of public notification and the difficulty of individuals who have ownership of these
particular lights in their yards or in their neighborhoods seeing these things occur
without notice and without an opportunity to have a say. In addition, the point that Anna
brought up that what do we do if we get a complaint. That's not spoken to. So, I think
there is some issues here that we need to deal with, as well as I believe that if there is
going to be some kind of a fee associated with this, it should be mentioned in the
ordinance, not necessarily the structure, but the fact that that's our intent.
De Weerd: Any other comments?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 42 of 56
Nary: I would agree with Councilmember Rountree. I mean I think there is some work --
I think we can get there, I think there is just some work to get there, because I do -- to
me you may say this is a small halo on a small pole, but it looks to me like a smaller
version of large cell towers that have these big halos on the top of them. It's the same
thing, it's just a smaller version of it, and -- but I guess I'm maybe looking to Planning
and Zoning for some direction on whether you want us to simply defer or to -- I guess,
Mr. McKinnon, on whether to defer this and work on this some more -- I think there is
some ways to get there, I just think there needs some better definitions in some things,
rather than us simply taking action on it tonight.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Councilmember -- or President Nary, I think that the
discussions we have had today are really good and I think if I could talk with the
applicant, that I think we could come up with some language to address your concerns.
You have closed the Public Hearing, if you want to defer it; I think you would need to
open that -- the hearing back up again, so that we could defer it, rather than making a
motion one way or another tonight. But if you could give us a few weeks, we could
probably come up with some revised language.
De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion to open the. Public Hearing with direction
on -- oh; I guess we would, then, have a motion.
Bird: To continue it. Yeah.
Wardle: So moved.
Nary: Second.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved to reopen the Public Hearing on Item 15. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we continue Item No. 15 to August 17th. Is that enough time?
Canning: Sure.
Wardle: August 17th, 2004.
Nary: Second.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 43 of 56
De Weerd: I have a motion to continue this item to August 17th, 2004. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 16: Public Hearing: PP 04-014 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 8
commercial building lots on 6.9 acres in an I -L zone for Reagan
Subdivision by Quadrant Consulting, Inc. — east of North Eagle Road
and south of East Presidential Drive:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 16 is a Public Hearing on PP 04-014. 1 will open this
Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Moving forward. This is a request for eight commercial building lots on 6.9
acres. This is off of -- it runs between Presidential Drive and Pine Avenue as shown on
the vicinity map, just south of the Crossroads shopping center and west of the
Crossroads Subdivision, the residential portion. This is, actually, portions of a former
subdivision. This is the aerial. You can see the shaded parts where the -- portions of
the subdivision that have already come in for certificates of zoning compliance. There is
-- the Ram restaurant is going on one lot and a bank is going on the other. This
subdivision takes those remainder properties and re -subdivides them. It's difficult to see
the lot layout. Basically, the applicant is requesting for a number of fairly narrow lots,
the idea being that it affords them some opportunities for lot line adjustments or
combining properties as their applicants come in. This is one way that this applicant
has found for dealing with that struggle that we have on these commercial properties on
how exactly big to make the lots before you know who wants to buy it. This is what they
have proposed. We don't have a site plan, do we? I apologize for that. I didn't realize
that as I was reviewing the proposal. There is a common drive aisle -- I guess you can
see it here -- that comes through and connects Presidential to Pine Street and, then,
there will be -- it's just a drive aisle, though. There is no parking to the side of it, so it's a
restricted drive aisle. There will be a separate drive aisle with parking for -- in this area,
with the buildings being located either to the side or to the rear. And, likewise, over
here I believe there is a separate parking area and drive aisle. So, this will just be a
drive aisle that does connect the two roads. There is the light now at Pine Street for
those of us who don't like to take our lives in our hands trying to make the left-hand turn
onto Eagle Road any longer. So, it does provide that interconnection of the commercial
properties to the light. In the former subdivision that created these lots, there were
several variances given to them and those variances have continued. One was for the
Eagle Road landscape buffer. The second one was to put that landscape buffer in a
common lot. And the third was to reduce the minimum buffer width between
incompatible land uses from 25 feet to 20 feet and that was on this -- this eastern
property boundary. So, those continue with the subdivision and this subdivision is
consistent with those. Variances do run with the land, not with the prior application, so
that was appropriate for them to be able to make use of those variances. This does
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 44 of 56
come forward with a recommendation for approval from the Planning and Zoning
Commission. Chuck Christensen from Quadrant Consulting representing ABCZ,
Limited Liability Corporation, testified in favor of the application. He stated that he was
in agreement with all of the staff recommended conditions, except item number 15
regarding the cross -access easement and perhaps he can speak further to that today.
The key Commission additions or modifications -- oh, I'm sorry -- were that the cross -
access was -- the requirement was put in there in error and they should be deleted. So,
that has been done. So, with that there are no outstanding issues before the City
Council. I did notice in the recommendations that instead of ABCZ, LLC, the
Recommendations -- the first page, number two, has ABC2, so that will need to be
changed on the findings from -- to ABCZ. And with that I will end staffs presentation.
De Weerd: Any questions for staff at this time?
Bird: I have nothing, Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the applicant here? Please state your name and address.
Simons: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm Andy Simons with ABC2, LLC.
There was a mistake on that in the documents. P.O. Box 15407, Boise, Idaho. We are
the owners of the property. I would like to correct for the record that it is ABC2. Other
than that, we have no problem with any of the staff recommendations and I'll answer
any questions you have.
De Weerd: That was easy. Any questions for the applicant? Outside of the name?
Nary: Actually, it says ABC2 everywhere else on the document.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Andy.
Simons: Okay. Thanks.
De Weerd: Is there anyone who would like to provide testimony on this application?
Council, this is a Public Hearing. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, not seeing anyone else want to testify, I move that we close the
Public Hearing on Item No. 16.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 16. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 45 of 56
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve PP 04-014, Reagan Subdivision by Quadrant Consulting,
Incorporated, ABC2, owners, and to incorporate all staff and applicant comments.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 16. Is there any further
discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 17: Re -Adoption of Ordinance No. 04-1074 : AZ 03-018 Request for
annexation and zoning of 43.86 +/- acres from RT to C -G zones for
Kissler / Cobbs / Eagv / Ruwe by BRS Architects — southwest corner
and southeast corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 17 is the re -adoption of Ordinance No. 04-1074 for AZ 03-
018. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read this item by title only.
Nary: Madam Mayor, before he does that, maybe I missed it. Why are we doing this?
Rountree: Why are we re -adopting adopted.
De Weerd: I believe that there was a change made to the ordinance.
Nary: Oh.
Bird: Owners.
Nary: Like in the legal description?
Holinka: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I believe there was an incorrect legal
description in the original and so that has been corrected now and, thus, the need to
readopt the ordinance.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nary: Thank you.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. And this was on the advice
of the city attorney to do it in this order, so that there is some order of how we are doing
a few things at the end of the meeting, but it was connected at who needed to be
Meddian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 46 of 56
annexed before somebody else and this is the first step. Ordinance No. 04-1074, an
Ordinance finding that Janet Ruwe, an unmarried person, Lyle R. Cobbs, and Donna L.
Cobbs, husband and wife, Jack C. Kennevick and Mary Ann Kennevick, husband and
wife, Richard L. Jordan and Kathleen A. Jordan, husband and wife, and James A.
Kissler, the owners of certain real property generally located on the south side of Ustick
Road on the east and west sides of Eagle Road, State Highway 55, Meridian, Idaho, to
be known as Kissler/Cobbs/Ruwe and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits
of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, and have made a request for
annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of
Meridian and zoning designated General Retail and Service Commercial District (C -G)
and declaring that said land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part of
the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances,
resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the city engineer
to add said property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the
Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the
areas to be annexed with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and
the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-
223 and Section 63-2215.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. You have heard Item 17 by title only. Is there anyone
who would like to hear it read in it entirety? Seeing none, Council, I would entertain a
motion.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I move we approve Ordinance No. 04-1074 for the Kissler/Cobbs/Eagy/Ruwe
Subdivision.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 17. Is there any further
discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call role.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 18: Ordinance No. AZ 03-022 Request for
annexation and zoning of 5 acres from RT to C -G zones for Kissler (Dealt'
Parcel) by BRS Architects — southeast corner of East Ustick Road and North
Eagle Road:
De Weerd: Item 18, Ordinance 04-1088 for AZ 03-022. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, read
this ordinance by title only.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 47 of 56
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 04-1088, an
Ordinance finding that James A. Kissler, the owner of certain real property generally
located immediately east of the Kissler annexation 18 acre parcel near the southeast
corner of the intersection of Eagle Road, State Highway 55 and Ustick Road in
Meridian, Idaho, to be known as Kissler and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city
limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, have made a request for
annexation in writing to the Council that said land be annexed to the City of Meridian
and zoning designated General Retail and Service Commercial Districts (C -G) and
declaring that said land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part of the
City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions,
orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the city engineer to add said
property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the
City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be
annexed with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State
Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and
Section 63-2215.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Is
there anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Hearing none, Council, I
would entertain a motion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Ordinance No. 04-1088, with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 18, 04-1088. Is there any
further discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 19: Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 04-009
Request for Annexation and Zoning of 36.93 acres from RUT to C -G zone
for Market Sauare by Smith Brighton — northeast corner of North Eagle
Road and East Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 19 is the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law for AZ
04-009. Council, do I have a motion to approve?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 48 of 56
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'd move the approval of the Findings of Facts and Conclusions of Law and
Decision and Order for AZ 04-009 for Market Square by Smith -Brighton.
Wardle: Second,
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 19. Is there any further
discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 20: Development Agreement: AZ 04-009 Request for Annexation and
Zoning of 36.93 acres from RUT to C -G zone for Market Square by Smith
Brighton — northeast corner of North Eagle Road and East Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Item No. 20 is the development agreement for AZ 04-009 for Market Square.
I would entertain a motion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I'd move that we approve Item 20, development agreement for AZ 04-009.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 20. Hearing no further
discussion, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 21: Ordinance No. AZ 04-009 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 36.93 acres from RUT to C -G zone for Market
Square by Smith Brighton — northeast corner of North Eagle Road and
East Ustick Road:
Item 22: Ordinance No. AZ 04-004 Request for
annexation and zoning of 34.6 acres from RUT to I -L, L -O, and C -G zones
for proposed McNelis Subdivision by Falcon Creek, LLC — northwest
corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road:
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 49 of 56
De Weerd: Thank you. Items 21 and 22 are ordinances -- are Ordinances 04-1089 and
04-1090. Mr. Clerk, will you read these two ordinances by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 04-1089, an
Ordinance finding that Cavin, Inc., the owner of certain real property generally located
on the northeast corner of the intersection of Ustick Road and Eagle Road, State
Highway 55, immediately north of the proposed Kissler/Cobbs/Eagy/Ruwe annexation
and west of the Providence Place Subdivision in Township 4 North, Range 1 East,
Section 33, Meridian, Idaho, to be known as Market Square and which lies contiguous
or adjacent to the city limits of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, have
made a request for annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to
the City of Meridian and zoning designated General Retail and Service Commercial
District (C -G) and declaring that said land, by proper legal description as described
below, be a part of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all
ordinances, resolutions, orders, or parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the
city engineer to add said property to the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and
directing the Clerk of the City of Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and
map of the areas to be annexed with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and
assessor and the State Tax Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code
Section 50-223 and Section 63-2215.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk,
Berg: I have got one more ordinance, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Oh, I'm sorry.
Berg: I'm sorry. Ordinance No. 04-1090, an Ordinance finding that Falcon Creek, LLC,
the owner of real property generally located on the northwest corner of Ustick Road and
Ten Mile Road, within Section 34, Township 4 North, Range 1 West, Meridian, Idaho, to
be known as McNelis Subdivision and which lies contiguous or adjacent to the city limits
of the City of Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, have made a request for
annexation in writing to the Council and that said land be annexed to the City of
Meridian and zoning designated Limited Office District (L -O), General Retail and
Service Commercial District (C -G), and Light Industrial District (I -L) and declaring that
said land, by proper legal description as described below, be a part of the City of
Meridian, County of Ada, State of Idaho, repealing all ordinances, resolutions, orders, or
parts thereof, in conflict herewith, and directing the city engineer to add said property to
the official maps of the City of Meridian, Idaho, and directing the Clerk of the City of
Meridian to file a certified copy of the ordinance and map of the areas to be annexed
with the Ada County recorder, auditor, treasurer, and assessor and the State Tax
Commission of the State of Idaho, pursuant to Idaho Code Section 50-223 and Section
63-2215.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Clerk. You have heard the readings of Ordinance 04-1089
and 04-1090 by title only. Is there anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety?
Meddian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 50 of 56
Thank you for not saying yes. Okay. Council, I would entertain a motion to approve
these two ordinances.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve Item No. 21, Ordinance No. 04-1089 and Item No.
22, Ordinance No. 04-1090, with suspension of rules.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Items 21 and 22 by -- ordinances
as stated. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. It's very rare that we still have people remaining in this room.
Do either of you need to address the Council? Okay. Thank you. Council, there is just
a couple of items. At our joint meeting with ACHD on Monday, we talked about the
North Meridian Plan and the need to pull together a group to come up on the
transportation element of that and I was hoping to have someone indicate an interest in
serving on that and would accept any volunteers from Council. Don't all jump at once. I
know you're all scrambling to get involved.
Bird: I think we need to get the young buck on it.
Nary: Mr. Rountree, I guess that's you.
Rountree: Yes, I might have to do that. I might if it wasn't bordered by Chinden and
Eagle.
Bird: He couldn't do it. That young buck down there could.
Wardle: This happened last time we needed a volunteer. It's someone else's turn.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, would you like to be involved? You were the Council member who
was on during this process, so probably would be most appropriate.
Bird: Yeah, I will do it.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Bird: Find out when I need to meet.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 51 of 56
De Weerd: We will give the other Council members an opportunity to get involved in this
next item. I did get an e-mail from Craig Hood, who is starting the process of
annexation of Vienna Woods and Edinburgh Place Subdivisions and he will be -- he has
been in contact with officials of the homeowners associations and has set a date of July
21st as the date to meet with them. Councilman Nary has volunteered to attend that
meeting. I will be traveling to Rexburg to make a presentation to the Governor's Council
on our community block grant and I think it would be appropriate if we had one other
Council member there to represent the city.
Rountree: When is it?
De Weerd: It is July 21st at -- from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m.
Bird: This is Vienna Woods and --
De Weerd: Edinburgh.
Bird: -- Edinburgh.
Nary: I'm already going.
Bird: Call me and remind me.
Nary: All right.
Bird: Then, the next day I'm out of here.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I appreciate that. Just two more items. I do have a request
from Jay Schweitzer with ACRD. They are in the process of forming a neighborhood
advisory committee and they are asking -- the advisory committee will represent the
interest of communities and neighborhoods by focusing on neighborhood -related
programs, processes, and issues as it affects ACHD and he is asking that we appoint
two to three representatives from our city to serve on that committee.
Bird: Great.
De Weerd: And I would like names, if you have someone that you know that would like
to get involved, I do need to get those names to ACHD by the 16th, by the end of the
week, and so I would appreciate any names that you have to forward on.
Rountree: I have no names to offer at this time, but I would suggest that we have
somebody from our transportation committee. We have someone who has been active
with safe routes to schools that would be two areas I would recommend that we get
people from. I don't know names of individuals that have done that, if you do support
those nominations.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 52 of 56
De Weerd: Anna, are you familiar with anyone who has been involved in the safe routes
to schools project? I don't know if Meridian School District has been really active in that.
Canning: I'm not aware of anyone on the safe routes to school with the school district.
Rountree: Then, possibly, somebody from the police department that's working with
pedestrian safety and sort of thing.
De Weerd: Perhaps someone from the traffic safety committee.
Rountree: Traffic safety committee.
Bird: That meets tomorrow. The traffic safety committee meets tomorrow
Musser: Captain John Overton is currently assigned to the traffic safety committee and
he has been working on it and we do have representation as well with our traffic officers
coming to the meetings quite often. I'm not aware of a need or -- this is the first I have
heard of it, anyway, to have a representative, but we can get somebody assigned and in
conjunction with that on our trails and pathways, which is kind of a tie, we have
Sergeant Fewkes has volunteered to step forward and participate with parks and the
parks commission on that, too, so that might be a good tie-in for him as well where
those pathways and some of the safe crossings and things might have a natural tie in.
De Weerd: Well, let me get you a copy of this letter that you can give to Captain
Overton to take to the meeting tomorrow and I don't see why we could not have and
make sure of citizens and staff to attend, but I would ask that you get me a name that's
appropriate by Thursday, the end of the day Thursday, so I can get these names to
ACHD on Friday.
Musser: Okay. I can do that for you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Okay. So, Will, if I can get a copy of this for the chief. And I will find one of
our citizen volunteers in our transportation. We do have a couple on the ACHD citizen
advisory committee and we do have a couple on the transportation task force itself and I
will look at our applications and see if there is someone who has indicated that kind of
interest in their letter of interest. So, I appreciate those ideas. I guess, finally, the Dr.
Frielick plan. I did get a copy of this packet out to all of you yesterday. I'm sure with the
budget and all of that you have not had too much opportunity to really view this. It will
be up again for discussion at Compass and a new resolution for the Compass board
members to adopt. We are entering into those areas of where this is going to be put
into motion and so I guess next week I would like to have an opportunity to field any
questions at a pre -Council type of agenda item of any concerns, questions, further
information that you might need as we move forward with this.
Bird: Madam Mayor, isn't it on the 19th's docket for Compass?
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 53 of 56
De Weerd: Yeah. And that's next Monday.
Bird: Yes. Next Monday.
De Weerd: We would need to know on the resolution, but I think we need to just firm up
-- our City Attorney Nichols did give us an accounting of where he thinks we are and
probably we need to just have a discussion on this.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Anna.
Canning: Members of the Council, I had -- that was my husband, by the way. He never
looked at me the whole time.
Bird: He didn't want to embarrass you.
Canning: I didn't know if Shaun knew. Or Charlie. One thing for you to consider as you
read that, because the one thing, that stuck out to me was, I am not sure that the plan
part of that is really necessary. There is two components to the Frielick proposal. One
is the plan and one is the implementing ordinances and as he came and talked to us, it
was really the implementing ordinances that we talked about and, yet, the bulk of the
funds go to this plan and I'm not sure that we couldn't use the existing Compass plan
and our existing Comprehensive Plans to satisfy his need for a plan and it's kind of like
rewriting the Comprehensive Plan, so that you can rewrite the zoning ordinances, but,
then, going back and doing the Comprehensive Plan again. I just -- there is no reason
you can't just write the zoning ordinance and, then, go back and change the Comp Plan
afterwards. So, that was my major comment on that and that would knock the price tag
considerably, one would think, and speed things up also.
De Weerd: I guess, Anna, I think that -- and that's a good idea. There are a couple of
comprehensive plans that probably need updating, that he needs to tie altogether, so
there is a process of tying all of those plans together as a region, instead as all separate
plans, and that might be what that is about. I admit that our attorney attended the last
couple and Councilman Nary has attended one and I think I have attended one. So, I
really don't know how some of that is.
Canning: And having participated on the Compass selection team for the 2030 plan, I
mean it was -- most of that money is going toward this fantastic public participation
program and I'm concerned that Freilich may come in and kind of wear everybody out
on the public participation end and, then, the real plan that we are paying for, the million
dollar plan, is everybody is going to be burned out and not want to participate and will
be confused as to why they did this two years ago and I have concerns about that,
because it is very confusing.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 54 of 56
De Weerd: I do know they have to work concurrently together. There is certain
elements in the landings part that needs to be done within a short time frame and they
will both need to be done in 18 months. They have to be done concurrently, as I
understand it. Maybe Councilman Nary can add further to that.
Nary: Well, I guess my perspective is is this train is on the track ready to go and we are,
really, essentially -- I think we are buying a place at the table to see what it looks like at
the other end. I mean this is an 800,000 dollar study and we are having a pretty small
piece of that pie to basically be a part of the development of it. I think you have raised
some very legitimate points. I think the intent of the group at the meetings I have been
at is to really try to work together, try to find a comprehensive way countywide to have
some -- I guess better planning. I don't think that we have bad planning, so I don't know
that necessarily the City of Meridian needs better planning, but I don't think it's a very
expensive price tag in relation to what we may get. We may get something and not
think we really got our money's worth, but I never know that. But from the outside, I
think the intent of all the different entities is to really try to cooperatively work together to
create something for a countywide type of look. They know at the other end of it none
of the cities may like it, none of the cities may buy into it. It's Ada County Highway -- my
opinion is it's Ada County Highway District's attempt to get out of the planning business,
but support planning efforts. They have said that a couple of time, that they were
directed very strongly not to be a planning agency and they are trying not to be, but they
want to support planning efforts, because it relates so closely to what they do. So, I
think that's really what it is. They know at the end none of the cities may adopt any of
the ordinances that are recommended. They may not adopt any of the changes that are
recommended, but they don't think that's likely to happen. They think people are going
to like what they get. I mean that's -- I guess to address your comments, I think that's
just kind of the reality of what this is. It's an attempt to -- I think by all the entities in this
county to work together to find some ways to address some of the concerns and at least.
be able to say we tried to find better solutions than what we have come up with
individually, so for whatever that's worth.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have stated the same concerns that Anna has stated in terms of this dual
activity occurring in sequence wearing out the public and confusion it's going to create.
I still have that concern and have not been convinced by any of the scopes of work so
far that there has been a melding of those two activities. With respect to Dr. Frielick's
proposal, I don't get a sense that whatever anybody proposes to do to reduce the cost
of it, that the cost will be anything less than 800,000. 1 kind of picked that up yesterday
with what ACHD said is that, you know, it's that or nothing, but he wants to do it,
because it's going to be a showcase, well --
Bird: He's going to do it without making any profit.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 55 of 56
Rountree: The other point I would make is Bill says the train is ready to go. Yesterday
we learned that -- and if my math was correct, we got something on the order of 60 to
70 thousand dollars worth of contribution identified. With our 15,000, that would be
85,000 dollars worth of --
De Weerd: Thirty thousand.
Bird: Thirty thousand.
Rountree: Thirty thousand? Okay. So, we have got -- we have got about 100,000
dollars worth of cost identified. That's a little bit short and I don't hear anybody,
including ACHD, willing to pony up more than about, you know, 50, 60 thousand dollars
at a pop and there is -- we are a long ways from that 800,000 -dollar number. So, I
really don't know if it is going to get going. It kind of depends on what the City of Boise
wants to do, I guess, because they are the big money people in Ada County.
Nary: I think in the budget hearings in Boise I think they set aside like 75,000 dollars for
this.
Bird: Is that all?
Nary: So, I mean we are buying a ticket on this train, but we are not sitting in the front.
Rountree: But nobody is.
Bird: Nobody has stepped to the table yet.
Rountree: Nobody's bought that first class ticket yet.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: As I understood from Mr. Price at ACHD yesterday -- and Shaun I think was still
there when this was -- they are looking for a private individual that's going to divvy up a
lot, but, boy, I haven't seen any of those developers running out with an open
checkbook. I'm like Charlie, I think they are going to have a hard time coming up with
800,000 dollars.
Wardle: Well -- and just to add to that comment -- and I can't remember which meeting I
was at, whether it was the Compass meeting, but the indication from a representative
was Dr. Freilich would take something to get going.
Bird: A hundred and fifty.
Meridian City Council
July 13, 2004
Page 56 of 56
Wardle: It was at Compass at 150 to get going and, then, I guess just act on faith that
the rest was there and so --
Rountree: You can buy his book for 89.95, so whatever --
Canning: Mayor, thank you for letting me -- I appreciate your letting me comment. I just
-- since I had read the thing and it was about planning, I do appreciate being able to join
in the discussion. It may have been inappropriate, but thank you.
De Weerd: I guess that's the flavor of the night, but I think like Councilman Nary said, it
is moving forward, but there are lingering doubts and I just don't know where we are
going with it. We do have all the materials that have been collected from the previous
meetings that Bill Nichols gave us and maybe we should have a discussion next week,
just even in -- after seeing what the action is at Compass and we can let you know kind
of where things are at and see where we are going with our expensive ticket.
Bird: I think they are going to have a hard time raising it. I don't know where it's going to
step up at.
De Weerd: Well, we are entering the end. I would entertain a motion to adjourn, if there
is any --
Rountree: So moved.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:40 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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