HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 07-27CITY OF MERIDIAN
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, July 27, 2004 at 7:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
Roll -call Attendance:
X Shaun Wardle O Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve As Amended
3. Pledge of Allegiance: By Joe Bongiorno
4. Community Invocation by Pastor Shawn Ragan, with the Church of
God Seventh Day: Presented
5. Employee Service Awards: Jim Miller, Rod Shaul, & Gene Trekel
6. Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of July 6, 2004 City Council Regular Meeting:
Approve
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 04-
007 Request for a Rezone of 10.69 acres from R-4 to R-4, R-8 and
L -O zones for Tiburon Meadows Subdivision by Tiburon
Meadows, LLC — 1450 and 1460 North Ten Mile Road: Approve
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
016 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 46 building lots and 1
common lot on 10.69 acres in proposed R-4, R-8 and L -O zones for
Tiburon Meadows Subdivision by Tiburon Meadows, LLC — 1450
and 1460 North Ten Mile Road: Approve
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-013 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned
Development for reductions to the minimum requirements for lot
area, street side setbacks and minimum street frontage for Tiburon
Meadows Subdivision by Tiburon Meadows, LLC — 1450 and
1460 North Ten Mile Road: Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda —July 27, 2004 Pagel of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 04-
010 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 4.10 acres from RUT to
L -O zone for proposed Brockton Subdivision by Confluence
Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road: Approve
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
013 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 10 commercial
building lots on 4.10 acres for proposed Brockton Subdivision by
Confluence Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road:
Approve
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-012 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned
Development for proposed Brockton Subdivision with request for
reduction to the required landscape buffer along the north, south
and west boundaries and reduced or no lot frontage by Confluence
Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road: Approve
H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
014 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 8 commercial building
lots on 6.9 acres in an I -L zone for Reagan Subdivision by
Quadrant Consulting, Inc. — east of North Eagle Road and south of
East Presidential Drive: Approve
First Addendum to the Development Agreement for EI Dorado
Business Campus: Approve
J. Resolution No. 04-436 : Authorizing the Appointment
K. Permanent and Temporary Easement Contract for the Black
Cat Sewer Project (Janicek Properties): Approve
L.
IM
Approve
N. Change Order No. 1 for the Headworks Expansion Project:
Approve
O. Finance Third Quarter Report: Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda—July 27, 2004 Page 2 of
All materials presented at public meetings shall become properly of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 49 hours prior to the public meeting.
P. License Agreement with Nampa Meridian Irrigation District to
construct pathway along the Eight Mile Drain: Approve
7. Department Reports:
A. City Council Member — Shaun Wardle
Golf Course Discussion: Discussed — on going
B. Planning and Zoning — Anna Canning
Downtown Transportation Management Plan: Updated
2. Downtown Parking Study: Update
8. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda) Nothing
9. Ordinance No. Amending Unlawful
Trespassina on Municipal Golf Course (First of Three Readings):
Withdrawn
10. Ordinance No.
Cants in Meadow Lake Village (First of Three Readings): Move to
Reading 8-3-04
11. Tabled from July 20, 2004: FP 04-038 Request for Final Plat approval
of 30 single-family residential building lots and 5 common lots on 16.4
acres in an R-4 zone for Autumn Faire Crossing Subdivision by
Autumn Faire, LLC — south of West Ustick Road and west of North Black
Cat Road: Table to August 3, 2004 Meeting
12. Tabled from July 20, 2004: FP 04-046 Request for Final Plat approval
for 72 single-family residential building lots and 15 common lots on 31.35
acres in an R-4 zone for Fulfer Subdivision No. 3 by Kevin Powell —
north of West McMillan Road and east of North Ten Mile Road: Table to
August 24, 2004 Meeting
13. Tabled from July 20, 2004: FP 04-044 Request for Final Plat approval
for 5 commercial building lots on 2.88 acres in an L -O zone for Lynnwood
Plaza Subdivision by Busterback Development, LLC — north of West
Cherry Lane and east of North Ten Mile Road: Table to August 3, 2004
Meeting
14. Public Hearing: Development Agreement for Lamont Kouba !
Robnett Construction: Approve
Meridian City Council Agenda—July 27, 2004 Page 3 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 49 hours prior to the public meeting.
15. Public Hearing: VAC 04-003 Request for a Vacation of utilities,
drainage and irrigation easement on the interior lot line of Lots 22 and 23
of Packard Acres Subdivision No. 2 by Packard Estates Development,
LLC — south of East Ustick Road and east of North Locust Grove Road:
Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for
Approval
16. Public Hearing: PFP 04-006 Request for a Preliminary/Final Plat
approval for the re -subdivision of Lot 14, Block 1 of Woodside Creek
Subdivision No. 1 into two building lots on .32 acres in an R-8 zone for
proposed Woodside Creek Subdivision No. 2 by Woodside Properties,
LLC — 1115 North Ten Mile Road: Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law for Approval
17. Public Hearing: CUP 04-014 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development for modification of an existing CUP in an L -O zone
of Meadowlake Village Continuing Care Retirement Center (CCRC) by
Touchmark of the Treasure Valley, LLC — south of East Franklin Road and
east of North Eagle Road: Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for Approval
Meridian City Council Agenda— July 27, 2004 Page 4 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 horns prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council Meeting July 27, 2004.
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:20 P.M.,
Tuesday, July 27, 2004, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, and Shaun
Wardle.
Members Absent: William Nary.
Others Present: Bill Nichols, Will Berg, Anna Canning, Brad Watson, Bill Musser, Kenny
Bowers, Doug Strong and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. Council, I will go ahead and call this regular City Council meeting to
order. I appreciate all of you joining us here this evening. We will open up the meeting
with roll call attendance. Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 2 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We do have some changes. I will start with the Consent Agenda. We need to add
Item R, which is the license agreement with Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District to
construct a pathway along Eight Mile Drain with the City of Meridian. Item 16, with
Council's approval, would like to come and be just before Item 7 right after the Consent
Agenda. And, then, Item 11 needs to be tabled to 8/3/04. Item 12 needs to be tabled to
8/24/04. And Item 13 needs to be tabled to 8/3/04. And with that I would move that we
adopt the revised agenda.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the agenda as amended.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 2 of 56
Item 3: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Item 3 we have asked Firefighter Joe Bongiorno to come and lead us in the
pledge. If you will please rise.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 4: Community Invocation by Pastor Shawn Ragan, with the Church of
God Seventh Day:
De Weerd: Thank you so much. Item 3 is to continue our very valuable partnership with
the faith community. They join us at the beginning of every Council meeting and we
have Pastor Shawn Ragan with the Church of God Seventh Day. If you will, please, join
US.
Ragan: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I appreciate the
opportunity to come here this evening. As I have studied missions over the last year
and really studied what's happening, in other countries so often the relationship
between the faith community and the government is one that is nothing like we have
here where we have the opportunity to come in and open this in prayer, rather it's one
where as we have studied in China and various other places, that the government is not
open to this type of environment, and is, in fact, chasing down those of religious
background, those of faith. So, I do consider it a great honor and a privilege to come
here this evening. So, let us open in prayer. Father, we come before you this -- tonight,
Lord, so very thankful. Thankful for this country that we live in, Lord, where we can
have the opportunity to involve you and to call on your name as we gather in these
meetings and, Father, to look to you for wisdom and guidance. Lord, I just pray that you
would be present here this evening in this meeting, Father, your Holy Spirit might fill this
room, that you might guide and direct the discussions and the conversations that take
place, Lord, that you might lead the decisions and guide them to the best benefit of
Meridian and your will. Father, I pray that you would be with the City Council Members
and our Mayor tonight, Lord, that you would just give them a special blessing and
anointing as the leaders in our city, Father, as they serve I just pray you would continue
to give them wisdom and guidance. Be with their families. Being in public office can be
a struggle at times. Lord, I just pray you would be with their families and their friends
and those that they are with, Father, just that you just give them a special blessing,
Father, to be with them physically and emotionally, continue to strengthen them and,
Lord, most of all as they serve our community I just pray you would give them wisdom. I
pray that you would just guide their thoughts, give them wisdom to make the decisions
that are in the best interest of our city and also according to your will. So, Father, I just
pray that you would be at this meeting tonight, continue to guide and direct. Father, I
just pray that you would just be with our city, Father, that we might be that example to
other cities and our community and our state and in our nation and, once again, we
thank you for the opportunity to live here. We praise you in Jesus' name, amen. Thank
you.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 3 of 56
Item 5: Employee Service Awards:
De Weerd: Thank you so much. It has been a good element to our meetings. We have
had all of our faith community represented during this portion and so; again, it's a valued
relationship. Thank you for being with us today. Okay. Item 5 is Employee Service
Awards. These awards are given to our employees for their years of service and
dedication. This is a -- these employees that have reached these milestones are
extremely important to us doing business in our community and to our outreach and
service, so it gives me great pleasure to recognize three of our employees today, so I
will move around. Last year we didn't have an employee function and so there were --
are two employees that reached their ten years of service that we would like to
recognize at this time. Detective Miller. Detective Miller achieved ten years of service
with the city and we have appreciated your commitment to our community. The second
one who also reached ten years of service is Captain Shaul, one of our firefighters. It
isn't often that this milestone is reached I think in any industry and it does give me great
pleasure to recognize 25 years of service to Lieutenant Gene Tragel. So, we do want to
thank you. It is because that Council added an amendment to our budget, as you heard
probably earlier, that we were able to, I guess, give you a small token of our
appreciation for your years of service and we look forward to the next milestones at 15
for you two and Lieutenant Tragel, you know, 30 years -- but thank you so much. I do
also want to take an opportunity to present a couple of certificates of appreciation.
Captain Shaul and his team responded to a very traumatic accident Sunday evening
that happened at Chinden and McDermott, along with one of our other crews that was
Captain Smith, Kim Roblin, and Justin Porter -Winkler and also Deputy Chief Bill
Johnson, but since we had Rod and his crew here tonight, I would like to present to you
our appreciation and recognition and I'll read the certificates of appreciation. This is for
outstanding service during a rescue effort after a car accident on July 25th, 2004. Lives
were saved as a result of your training and quick response during a time of crises and
we appreciate and that I would like to present you with these certificates. If you will
please come forward.
Item 6: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of July 6, 2004 City Council Regular Meeting:
B. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: RZ 04-
007 Request for a Rezone of 10.69 acres from R-4 to R-4, R-8 and
L -O zones for Tiburon Meadows Subdivision by Tiburon
Meadows, LLC —1450 and 1460 North Ten Mile Road:
C. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
016 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 46 building lots and 1
common lot on 10.69 acres in proposed R-4, R-8 and L -O zones for
Tiburon Meadows Subdivision by Tiburon Meadows, LLC — 1450
and 1460 North Ten Mile Road:
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 4 of 56
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-013 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned
Development for reductions to the minimum requirements for lot
area, street side setbacks and minimum street frontage for Tiburon
Meadows Subdivision by Tiburon Meadows, LLC — 1450 and
1460 North Ten Mile Road:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 04-
010 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 4.10 acres from RUT to
L -O zone for proposed Brockton Subdivision by Confluence
Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
013 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 10 commercial
building lots on 4.10 acres for proposed Brockton Subdivision by
Confluence Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road:
G. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP
04-012 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned
Development for proposed Brockton Subdivision with request for
reduction to the required landscape buffer along the north, south
and west boundaries and reduced or no lot frontage by Confluence
Management, L.L.C. — 3665 North Locust Grove Road:
H. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PP 04-
014 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 8 commercial building
lots on 6.9 acres in an I -L zone for Reagan Subdivision by
Quadrant Consulting, Inc. — east of North Eagle Road and south of
East Presidential Drive:
First Addendum to the Development Agreement for EI Dorado
Business Campus:
J. Resolution No. Authorizing the
Appointment of Employees to Perform the Function of
Removing Abandoned Vehicles:
K.
L.
M.
Meridian City Councll
July 27, 2004
Page 5 of 56
N. Chance Order No. 1 for the Headworks Expansion Project:
O. Finance Third Quarter Report:
R: License Agreement - Nampa -Meridian - Eight Mile Drain.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, Item 6 is the Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: We do have an addition on the Consent Agenda and that is the license agreement
with Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District to construct a pathway along Eight Mile Drain
with the City of Meridian and that is Item No. R and with that I would move that we pass
on the revised Consent Agenda and for the Mayor to sign and the Clerk to attest on all
proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda with the
amendment. Mr. Clerk, do you have a number for Item J for the resolution? 436? So,
04-436 for the record. Okay. Mr. Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 16: Public Hearing: PFP 04-006 Request for a Preliminary/Final Plat
approval for the re -subdivision of Lot 14, Block 1 of Woodside Creek
Subdivision No. 1 into two building lots on .32 acres in an R-8 zone for
proposed Woodside Creek Subdivision No. 2 by Woodside Properties,
LLC —1115 North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 16 was moved ahead of Department Reports. It is
a Public Hearing and I will open the Public Hearing on Item 16, PFP 04-006. I'll start
with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is Woodside Creek Subdivision
No. 2. It is a two -lot subdivision. You recently approved Woodside Creek Subdivision
in this location; it's on Ten Mile Road just south of Ray's Parkside Creek and just north
of Berkeley Square. This is the Albertson's, to orient you a little bit. Right now there is
a house currently on the property and that was kind of the -- the elementary school is
behind the property. The existing house, which you can see here, is kind of the root of
the situation. When they did Woodside Creek Subdivision, they accommodated the
house. They put it on an extra large lot. The house, actually, encroached in the
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 6 of 56
landscape buffer and after a lot of consideration, the developer decided that they really
needed to move the lot and it left them with kind of an oversized property. So, when he
did the final plat for Woodside Creek, he did -- he adjusted a few lines to make it even a
little larger than it was on the preliminary plat and now he's come in asking to divide this
area here -- it's a separate application for just this subdivision. So, it already has street
frontage. They will have to have a common drive, because it doesn't meet the full 40
feet there, but they will have a common drive that just comes up that line and provides
access to both properties and it's, basically, a lot split, residential lot split. The applicant
doesn't have any concerns with the conditions of approval and he will withhold his
comments tonight, unless the Council has specific questions for him.
De Weerd: Council, since it is the applicant's anniversary and that is the only reason we
moved it up, I would give him a hard time, but I do realize he wants to leave. Do you
have any questions for the applicant?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: None at this time.
De Weerd: Okay
Canning: This does, of course, come to you with a recommendation for approval from
the Planning and Zoning Commission.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council? I guess I would first ask is there anyone in the
audience who would like to testify on this item? We would invite you to give him a hard
time, too. Yes, Councilman Rountree.
Rountree: If there is no comments or no testimony, I move that we close the Public
Hearing on Item No. 16.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Thank you. It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on
Item 16. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Any discussion? Mr. Bird.
Bird: Evidently we don't have any discussion. We didn't have before. So, I would move
that we approve PFP 04-006, Woodside Creek Subdivision No. 1, with the conditions as
per staff.
Rountree: Second.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 7 of 56
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 16. Is there any further
discussion? Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 7: Department Reports:
A. City Council Member — Shaun Wardle
1. Golf Course Discussion:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 7 is Department Reports. We will start with Councilman Wardle.
Wardle: Thank you, Madam Mayor. My review for the department report is a summary
of what we have been discussing with the golf course. Just so I outline real quickly
what I'm going to talk about, I'm going to talk about the need for our review and I'm also
going to take some public comment, allow everyone an opportunity to comment on the
shape of the course and, then, move into what my research has been and, then, into
some sources of funding that the city has discussed. I have got a little more definitive
information for that. So, with that I will start with the golf course committee
recommendation, which everyone has seen and which the city has not officially
adopted. From that we took -- or I took in my investigation and the people that were
helping me and looked at, in essence, what were really landscaping issues.
Landscaping issues, which had to do with the green of the grass and the weeds, which
were within the course. We did not concentrate our efforts on the playability of -- the
playability from a scoring and player's perspective on the course. I do have several e-
mails and if any of these individuals are here and would like to comment, I would invite
them to do so, otherwise, I'm going to paraphrase just very quickly some of the e-mails
that I received. From Wally Johnson -- like to comment? Just very quickly. Lived on the
course for ten years, moved here, the course in front of our place was weeds and dirt.
Have seeded, fertilized, and watered for the past ten years. We recently refinanced our
home and the appraiser commented on the lack of upkeep of the course and, then, said
it would be an asset, rather than a liability if the course was in good shape. Cindy
Nemec. Lives on the golf course and had problems with poor maintenance for years.
Have to pay my lawn service to spray onto the course and keep the weeds out of the
yard. I have my sprinklers turned on so that water will water the course. Still have a
large dead area along the property. Our guests remark on the poor conditions and my
neighbors are watering and spraying also. Another e-mail from Dick Frost. Would you
like to comment, Dick? I'm just going to paraphrase very briefly, that the course is
turning brown and browner. The dandelions are not being sprayed, etcetera, and that
most everyone else that lives on the course furnishes their own hoses, fertilizers,
mowers, to maintain the course in front of their home. This is not standard procedure
on any other course that I know of. Did I do a fair assessment there? And, then,
Gordon Margulieux asked when we were going to have a Public Hearing, if we were
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 8 of 56
considering any grants and those sorts of things, and this is a Public Hearing. Would
Gordon like to comment at all? Okay. Thank you. Would anyone else like to comment
very briefly on the focus of what I have just talked about, as far as the condition of the --
sir, if you would, please, come up. Please state your name and your address for the
record if you would.
Morrison: Robert B. Morrison, 3841 Woodmont Drive. I would like you to add to that
the bent grass that's not being properly taken care of on your greens and they have
closed the putting green on which is now the 18th tee and grass seeds and it has
infected all of our lawns in that area and I have contacted the Mayor about it a couple of
weeks ago. I just wanted to make sure it's that bent grass. And, then, also the level of
the lake. That water comes up through the golf course, back up Turnberry Circle and
up into our house where the storm drains are, the level of that water is so high that
anytime we have a rain or they flush the fire hydrants or anything, that water floods our
yards and I brought that up to the Mayor also. But I want that added into that golf
course decision and she's going to get back with me later on that. Thank you.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm David Zaremba. I, actually,
came hoping that I will be able to comment on the Item 9 when we get there, but since
the golf course maintenance has come up earlier, I would comment that we have a
similar experience as other people have reported in e-mails. Also, the reference to the
ponds reminds me that recently another private citizen, in an effort to fix the pond in
front of his house, made an agreement with the city and the golf course that has
resulted in the pond in front of my house being a dead-end, stagnant pond, and I
believe something needs to be done about that and, hopefully, I will be back for Item 9.
Thank you.
Wardle: Is there anyone else that would like to comment before I proceed further?
There will certainly be room for comments at the end of this, if anyone thinks of that. As
you can see from the comments tonight within the public forum and the comments that I
had received and we had received, the focus of what we were really looking at was --
were landscaping issues and so the project focus, essentially, came out of the golf
course committee recommendation that the sprinkler system was deficient. One of the
other comments is the portion of the original front nine as its expected life span for a
system of that and that the new nine also had some deficiencies and so to that end the
1.5 million dollar estimate to completely take care of that was looked into. I can tell you
that we did have an estimate for some planning and construction documents from the
Land Group. Their estimate for planning and construction documents was between 40
and 50 thousand dollars. They also recently worked on a course in Yakima,
Washington, which was roughly 30 years old and when they replaced that system, it
cost roughly 1.5 million dollars. And so felt that that number, without going out to hard
bid, was a fairly good number to be looking at. We, then, looked at sources of funding
within the city. The one -- the first thing to look at was the general fund and it was
quickly decided that there was not room in the general fund for 1.5 million dollars.
There were other city priorities, which were much higher and needed within this budget
year and within any future budget years. Then, looked to the opportunity for grants and
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 9 of 56
we looked at the possibility of a community block grant specifically for infrastructure.
However, the specific area that the golf course is in is not eligible based on the income
criteria for some of those community block grants that the City of Meridian has applied
for in the past and so that was one of the criteria that we were not eligible for that grant.
The second was for some water conservation projects, which might have netted up to
500,000 dollars and an infrastructure -- as the state told me, the infrastructure for the
golf course sprinkler system did not qualify for that specific funding project. And so with
all of those grant sources exhausted, Cherry Lane Recreation did come up with some
specific PGA grants, which were available. Those are -- they average four to five
thousand dollars and certainly may help with some bunker replacement, but did not
provide any large percentage to that 1.5 million dollars. And so today -- excuse me.
One more. Those were all the grants that were considered and we are currently
working towards finding any grants, which may be able -- the city may be able to partner
with or to work with Cherry Lane Recreation to provide, but it does not appear that there
are any large dollar grants immediately available. We, then, looked at the opportunity
for what is commonly termed as a revenue bond. A revenue bond is, essentially, a
bond for improvements, which is based upon the revenue, which would be generated
from specific activities and a scenario that was proposed included additional green fees
to cover the cost of the bond payment. In discussions with Cherry Lane Recreation at
one of our future -- or, excuse me, our past pre -Council meetings, it was decided that
Cherry Lane Recreation was not in favor of necessarily raising those fees to look to
cover those -- a revenue specific bond. In addition, I would like to point out that even
though a revenue bond may incorporate some of the financing from an activity, it still
needed -- and, Mr. Nichols, maybe you can help me — it still needed to be approved
either by judicial confirmation or by a super majority vote and I will get to that just a little
bit later -- or just in a minute to a general obligation bond. So, with all those other
activities and funding sources exhausted, the Council and the Mayor asked me to
prepare just a brief discussion on what a general obligation bond for 1.5 million dollars
will look like. Bud Way with Wells Fargo was kind enough to give me some figures and
also some tax impact figures and so I'll give those to you just very briefly. I have some
five, eight, and ten year options and I'm going to give everyone here the option -- the
five and ten year options just very briefly. On a five-year maturity bond for 1.5 million
dollars, the annual debt service will be 333,169 dollars. The tax implication for that
specific bond, that five year amortization on 1.5 million dollars for all the citizens,
residential homeowners, type two, which is a home which is 150,000 dollars, the
average annual impact will be $13.91. For a ten-year maturity bond, the average
annual debt service will be $185,142.38. The average annual debt service for a home,
which is 150,000 dollars, will be $7.73. 1 would also like to point out that -- and if Mr.
Nichols could help me just briefly -- one of the things that we discovered when looking
into bonding for the city, first a judicial confirmation -- a bond may be approved through
judicial confirmation. However, it must be for ordinary and necessary expenditures. Am
I correct, Mr. Nichols?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the judicial confirmation is a way for
alternative financing generally to be approved. It's not necessarily for a bond itself, it's
for alternative financing. For example, if you had a lease purchase arrangement for the
Meddian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 10 of 56
infrastructure improvements of the golf course and it was submitted to a judicial
confirmation and was approved, then, that allows the -- in a sense, the city to incur a
debt which extends more than one year. So, that's the judicial confirmation process. It
has been used in other places to improve municipal golf courses, it's been used in
Nampa, it's been used in Caldwell. The general obligation bond, though, where it's paid
by property taxes, in addition to the ordinary levy, that's the one that requires the
approval of the voters.
Wardle: Thank you. And also within that, something that would need approval of the
voters, one of the things that was discussed -- and I don't have the specific information
-- was that the city must be careful not to, by state statute, I believe, lend its credit to a
private organization.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there is a specific Constitutional
provision in the Idaho Constitution which prohibits either the state or municipality from
lending its — the word is lending its credit and so it's very difficult or you have to be very
careful about any arrangements which may be seen as providing some special benefit
to a private company.
Wardle: Thank you. We didn't rehearse that very well, so -- or at all I should say.
Thank you for answering those questions, Mr. Nichols. With that information, my
charge from the Mayor and the Council and I believe from the community was to bring
all of this information forward. This is by no means a proposal of any sort. However,
this is an opportunity for everyone to comment. As I mentioned before, just to recap,
the city owns the specific property, which the golf course sits on. However, the tenant
leases that for purposes of operating a golf course. And so the only real available
source of funding for the city that I could overturn would be a general obligation bond.
And before we have a discussion, I'd like -- if anyone in the audience has just any
comments on that specific action or possibility, I should say.
De Weerd: Are there any comments from anyone? Okay. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: With that --
De Weerd: Mr. Frost, if you will, please, come up to the microphone.
Frost: I appreciate your report. But I guess the question is -- and everybody would like
to know, who is responsible for the maintenance of -- and the upgrade of the sprinkler
system and the landscaping? Is it the city or is it the lessee, according to the contract?
Wardle: I believe that's the question which is before us.
Frost: And -- well, if we are talking about a bond, who is going to pay for the bond?
Wardle: In my scenario -- and just to clarify, the scenario that I have just given and that
we discussed that really the only opportunity the city has to pay for a 1.5 million dollar
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 11 of 56
improvement on that course would be to go to a general obligation bond, which would
be paid for by the taxpayers, who would have to approve it through a super majority
vote and we -- again, we are discussing this. It's not a proposal, which has gone to
anyone before, we are just taking the first -- first read on this one.
Frost: So, to answer my question, is the lessee responsible in any manner?
Rountree: Do we know the answer to that question?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, I caution the audience, please, let's keep this orderly. Please.
The lease agreement is not -- is not the tightest document in the world, but it does have
maintenance provisions in it, and it also has a very vague standard with regard to what
that maintenance is supposed to be and I believe it's a fair statement to say that there is
a disagreement between the lessee of the course and the city as to what extent
problems with the golf course lay at the feet of the lessee or do they lay at the feet of
the city with regard to the design and the way the course was constructed and the way
the infrastructure was constructed. So, Councilman Wardle was specifically not
charged, if I recall correctly, with trying to allocate blame or maintenance or who is
supposed to do what, but, rather, what will it take to fix the problem and how can that be
done. And so we can be here until the cows come home as to who is responsible at
this point. There is language in the lease with regard to maintenance, there is language
in the lease with regard to a standard, but it is a lease that ties into a memorandum of
understanding, which ties into another memorandum. There are some entities that
have gone bankrupt, there is some reversionary language, there is a bunch of things in
the agreement itself that are not the tightest. They were drawn at a time when folks
were perhaps more optimistic about how things would actually go than they should have
been.
Frost: Okay. I understand and I'm not trying to put the blame on the lessee or the city,
all I'm saying is it's -- if anybody has read this USGA inspection report, which I think you
have, dated November the 2nd, 2003 -- or 2002, it's probably the worst maintained golf
course in the valley and from maintaining it with improper equipment, the slope of the
greens, the inadequate sprinkler system. The city is to blame for part of this and the
lessee is to blame for part of it. So, somebody needs to get their act together and get
the course up to standard. It's not even up to standard. This report says that and you
know that. So, anyway --
De Weerd: Mr. Frost, if I might add, Councilman Wardle was to look at our response to
the capital recommendations by the committee report as a result of that study and bring
back what options were in front of the city and that's what his report is today. I believe
that in future meetings the standard needs to be addressed and what is allowed within
the infrastructure that exists today and what expectations can be and how we can move
forward, because I know this has been going on for years and this Council is
determined to bring about some solutions that we can all live with and set that standard
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 12 of 56
and this is just kind of the first step of identifying what financial commitment the Council
is willing to put towards this and the grant research is extremely important to see what
monies we can find that could help assist it as well, because that is what we can do.
Now, you did look at -- Councilman Wardle, you looked at bonds, but you also looked at
a levy based on user -- the green fees -- a revenue bond as well?
Wardle: I did.
De Weerd: So, two different forms.
Wardle: Two different forms of bonding. And just to clarify real quickly, the revenue
bond which we looked at still had the taxpayers of the city as a backstop for the ultimate
payment on that. However, it was based upon an increase in greens fees or an
increase in revenue somehow, which would pay for that, and that's specifically -- we had
a conversation in a pre -Council meeting with Cherry Lane Recreation and that was, in
my estimation, not open to that specific option.
Frost: Can I say one more comment? And I'll speak for probably a lot of people in the
audience -- is we are concerned with our homes and our property values and the golf
course is a big part of that. You know, if it's well maintained and kept up, well, so is our
proper values and if it's going to go downhill, well, so will our homes and our property
values. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, state your name.
Zaremba: My name is Renee Zaremba and good evening, Madam Mayor, and City
Council Members. I was also going to wait on Item 9, but since we are talking about
maintenance and I wanted to wait until I heard Councilman Wardle's report, I'm still
disappointed that the two options that are available are taxpayers issues and right now,
when we moved here six years ago, we paid an impact fee to where our property is
adjoining to the golf course and as any golf course community, you would expect that
that golf course would be maintained and right now I'm paying on a weekly basis to
maintain the front part of my golf course. So, based on that, I think we -- I think the
Council needs to look at other alternatives, that based on the lessee and based on the
current contract in hand, to look at that and see whether they are in adherence to that
contract and synergies and dis-synergies with that contract and deal with it
appropriately.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name.
Margulieux: Gordon Margulieux. And do you need my address?
De Weerd: No.
Margulieux: I'm not sure. Is it possible in researching this here, is it possible to put
conditions on the bond to correct the deficiencies that are in the contract right now? I
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 13 of 56
know that the golf course has threatened to sue -- at least that's what they claim in the
newspaper article that was about three or four weeks ago, but is it possible to put
conditions? They -- according to the article I read in the Statesman, they were
mentioning that they weren't at fault in this here and they felt the city should take care of
it all and so is there a way of putting conditions that if, indeed, we do a bond, we can
correct it and create a standard that we don't end up five or ten years down the line with
a golf course that even looks worse than does today, because of the way that they are
maintaining it. They are in the lease -- I read it as saying that they maintain it. We
supply the land -- the city supplies the land and they maintain it and they haven't done
that, they haven't done it for the last ten years and even before that, but its gone
downhill in the last ten years. What percentage -- and the other question I had is what
percentage do you need approval on a general bond?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, to answer the easy question first, which is it's a two-thirds
majority vote, so 66 and two-thirds. Second, on the issue of can a successful bond,
before the money was spent, if you would be tied into tighter provisions and I think the
answer to that is yes. I don't think the golf course is -- the operators of the golf course
are -- at least in my read of it, they are not opposed to revising or strengthening
language in the lease agreement, as long as there is the ability -- the infrastructure is
there for them to be able to do what they believe they need to do. And I would think that
the goal of revising those agreements would be to avoid the danger of unstated
expectations, that the expectations on the part of the city and on the part of the lessee
are all laid out, so that it's very easy to identify if somebody is not holding up their end of
the deal, so that appropriate steps can be taken to bring that into correction and that's
certainly in everybody's best interest to know exactly what's expected of them and
when.
Margulieux: And my last question was about the benefit to a private business, because
my understanding is that if Cherry Lane Recreation sold it today, they would -- they may
recoup a certain amount of cash out of that. If we -- if the city replaced the irrigation
system at a cost to the city and they went ahead and sold their lease, would they not get
more money out of that lease and is there a way of limiting what they -- what they can
get out of the improvements that the city has made if they were to choose to sell their
lease, so that it would actually go back and pay back the bond.
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Members of the Council, I don't know that we have specifically looked at that
particular issue, but that could be part of the strengthening of the lease agreement with
regard to those particular issues, but, then, again, the city has to be very clear about
what its goals are here with regard to having a golf course that the city owns that's
leased out. I mean what's the goal? Is the goal to have a nice course in town that
Merldian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 14 of 56
people point to as a source of pride and as something as you -- as some of your
neighbors have said, that enhances property values and all those sorts of things. If
that's the goal, then, perhaps it's not as important whether a lessee is able to sell their
lease and make something over the time that they have invested in it, as long as --
again, it depends on what the city's goal is and the agreement can be crafted
accordingly. Again, it's a mutual thing, it has to be agreed to on the part of the lessee,
but these agreements can be revised if both parties agree to revise them.
Margulieux: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Crandall: My name is David Crandall and part of the statistics -- do you know how many
revenue generating rounds of golf were played on the course in 2003 and projected for
2004?
Wardle: I do not have that information.
Crandall: So, as you were talking about green fees, we don't know how many -- what's
the dollars for 100,000 rounds of golf or anything?
Wardle: We didn't get that far in the conversation.
Crandall: Is that number available or is that something they think is proprietary and don't
want to share?
Wardle: The City of Meridian does not have that number.
Crandall: Okay.
Wardle: I'm not sure if the tenant is willing to share that or not
Crandall: Okay. Thank you.
Frost: Yeah. I'm back. Robert Frost. Does the city attorney have any authority to
protect us when they are destroying our property, like the water in the storm drain -- is
Ada County Highway District -- and I think it was four or five years ago, Mr. Rountree
was on the board at the time, where they -- Ada County Highway District had to force
the City of Meridian to keep that lake level down to where we had a full pipe to get rid of
it, because that lake is our catch basin for the storm drains and they have made it into a
water pond or make them seal it off and put our catch basin back, so it's not in there,
because they are filling that water so high that we, actually, get water clear over the top
of the sidewalks, clear up into the lawns, and, then, we complain about the bent grass,
like I said awhile ago and we have no authority with them at all whatsoever and it don't
seem to be that the city's got any authority and I told you to come and take samples out
of my lawn and take it to the agriculture department and the neighbors around me and
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 15 of 56
you're going to find out that's why all of our grasses look dead and they are not dead,
it's the bent grass that's in them and the agriculture department, like I told you, Mayor,
says it's coming from the golf course and they are doing absolutely nothing with the
seed farm they got there on the 18th tee that used to be a practice putting green and so
can the city do anything at all to help the taxpayers protect their own land from the golf
course? Thank you.
De Weerd: I guess at some point, Brad, if we can get some historical information about
the pond and storm drainage, I would appreciate that. Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I believe our -- that committee report showed that as one item that definitely
needed to be fixed was that pond that was coming back and filling up on the people's
land. I think that was part of the fixing -- not part of the 1.5 million, but it was part of the
fixing, if I remember right on the report.
De Weerd: Okay. Councilman Wardle?
Wardle: Is there anyone that would like to comment?
Nemec: Madam Mayor, Council, my name Cindy Nemec. My question to you -- and I
know this doesn't help us go forward, but that lease started in 1978 and it was renewed
in 2003. If the language in that lease wasn't tight in 1978, was the same lease
renewed? Was it not rewritten? I mean these problems have gone on as long as I have
been there and I told you in my e-mail I have lived there for nine years. The other thing
that I would mention to you is that if I had noxious weeds in my yard, somebody would
complain to the city and they would come out and they would clean them up and they
would charge me; correct? I mean doesn't that happen? Why hasn't, you know, the city
gotten involved? I have got morning glory coming into my yard, I have got huge dead
areas, I have got two dead trees behind my property and I don't understand, you know,
why this lease was renewed in 2003. Can anyone answer that for me?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the lease was renewed without any
new language, one because that's what the lease said. The lease said it could be
renewed at the lessee's option. And so it didn't say it's going to be renegotiated for an
30 -- you can disagree with me if you wish, but that's my reading of the lease. And so
that was my opinion, was that all it needed was to -- if they chose to renew it, which they
did, it was renewed.
Nemec: And are there terms in there that the lease can be voided for their lack of
maintenance?
Meridian City Councll
July 27, 2004
Page 16 of 56
Nichols: There is a default clause, but it's not the strongest I have seen.
Nemec: I mean in my opinion the city needs to take legal action and I think that because
I have tried to talk to them so many times and I get nowhere and I think that my
neighbors have experienced the same thing. I mean they actually will lie to me about
spraying for weeds or this and that. And so I think it's a really big problem and I think
that it -- you know, I think the city needs to address it with the lessee and so that's my
opinion.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Link: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, Nancy Link, Cherry Lane Recreation. I can hear by
tonight's testimony that there is certainly some dissatisfied neighbors. We don't want
that. And as far as the water that is in the storm drain or whatever that problem is, I
would like to look into that, because to my knowledge -- well, I don't have any
knowledge of that and we would like to cooperate with the neighbors and make this a
place that is acceptable to them, as well as our golfers, because that's, of course, what
our goal is is to make it a good golf course. But we realize that being in a subdivision
with houses on either side of the fairways, that we also have an obligation to the
homeowners and we don't want to cause grief to the city either, but we do have a
interest to protect as far as our business goes and I would encourage any of the
homeowners who are currently dissatisfied and those who are here tonight, if you will
call me, Nancy Link, I would be happy to come out. We are on a spray program for
spraying the weeds. We try to do what we can and so we do want to be cooperative
and I am sorry that there are people who are dissatisfied.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Thank --
Bird: Madam -- yeah. Question --
De Weerd: Mr. Bird? Or Mr. Rountree. I'm sorry.
Rountree: I just said thank you.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Nancy, I got a question. Do you have any problems giving us the rounds of golf
you play -- was played last year?
Link: I defer that to our attorney.
Bird: Okay. I didn't know.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 17 of 56
De Weerd: Thank you.
Gasaway: My name is Ellen Gasaway and I live two doors down from Nancy and I want
to know if she can look out her back window and not see weeds.
Link: Would you like me to respond that?
Gasaway: Yes.
De Weerd: We would, but we are not going to start a debate.
Link: And I know. Yes, I do see. I agree completely with Mrs. Gasaway. I would just
like to educate people on some of the reasons why that is. The water system doesn't
go to the edge of the golf course on that back nine, the old nine, and so there isn't a way
for us to get the pressure to water that area and so even if we over -seed, which we
have done a number of years ago, trying to get that grow in grass, it just dies for lack of
water. But I agree with you, I'd like to see grass there.
Corrie: Good evening, Mayor, Council. Jeri Corrie, I live at 1980 Pine Way. We have
lived there 22 plus years and the maintenance has never been up to par. My husband,
being the past mayor, dealt with the lease and understood that it was a very tight lease
and that the responsibility for the maintenance was with the Cherry Lane Recreation. A
couple of months ago I called Cherry Lane Rec. to ask if after 22 years they would co -
share the cost of trimming a tree. It was -- it's a huge tree, it's on the ninth hole -- no,
excuse me, 17th hole and needed to be trimmed back. They could not even as much
as cooperate to pay 50 percent of the cost of that tree without having a board meeting.
I said, well, you need to consider it, because if you don't, I'm going to proceed. So, 50
percent of that tree has been trimmed, the other part of the tree is clear down on the
greens and on the back area where the mower, who comes out every morning and
mows the greens, cannot even get around there. It is particularly important that the
value of our property be kept up to the highest amount, but over 22 years we have seen
them operate the course, take in all the revenue, support several families, and not pay
the City of Meridian anything until the 18th hole and the club house was put in, of which
the City of Meridian gets 6,000 dollars. Any other public course that is operated
efficiently is taking in sufficient fees to manage their course. I am not interested in
voting for a private entity to have bonding and revenue sharing when they take all of the
receipts and put nothing back into the maintenance of the course. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you will please -- I know it's emotional, but if you will, please,
hold your applause. And, again, Nancy, this isn't a debate, I --
Link: I understand that. I just would like to make one point of education for people to
realize that we are paying for the clubhouse and we also subsidize by the passes that
were given to the construction company that built the new nine and put in the water
system there for, you know, several thousand dollars a year as subsidizes in free
passes to those companies. So, it's not just the amount of the 6,000 dollars a year,
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 18 of 56
there are other things that we have in kind given to the construction and the
maintenance of the golf course.
De Weerd: Okay. If we want to move this along, Mr. Wardle, do you have any wrap-up
remarks?
Wardle: Wrap-up remarks, I would like to ask just one more time if there are any specific
comments on the bonding option?
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name.
D.Gasaway: I'm Don Gasaway.
De Weerd: Thank you.
D.Gasaway: The attorney mentioned that there is a problem with the city lending their
name to a private enterprise and that applies to a general revenue bond, does it, or a
general obligation bond or not?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, for example, the city couldn't make a
loan to Cherry Lane Recreation for 1.5 million dollars. The city can improve property
that it owns, but it can't just -- it couldn't just write out a check for 1.5 million dollars to
Cherry Lane Recreation and have them -- and act like the bank. That's part of what that
Constitutional provision is.
D.Gasaway: Oh. Okay. So, it does not apply to a general obligation bond?
Nichols: The general obligation bond, if it were approved, would be to improve city -
owned property.
D.Gasaway: Okay.
Nichols: If that's what the Council decided to do.
D.Gasaway: Okay. Thank you.
Nichols: And it would -- and, Madam Mayor, if I may, it would not -- under those
circumstances, it would become a city project, city contracts, and so forth in terms of
those -- how those things would be done, the city specifications.
D.Gasaway: The city would be in control, then?
Nichols: Yes.
De Weerd: Control of what?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 19 of 56
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, with regard to the actual infrastructure
improvement and the construction of it. We would need to cooperate with the lessee --
De Weerd: It doesn't involve the lease, though.
Nichols: It doesn't involve changing the terms of the lease, unless we -- unless you find
a way to do that as part of the negotiations in connection with Cherry Lane.
De Weerd: Thank you for that clarification.
G.Gasaway: But the money would be under the city's control?
Nichols: Yes.
G.Gasaway: Thank you.
Zaremba: David Zaremba again. Sorry to prolong this. Having read the lease, but not
being a lawyer, I do concur that the lease is very one-sided. Twenty-five years ago they
obtained the right unilaterally to agree -- to extend it with no changes for another 30
years. The city was not given an option to make any changes at that point, the way I
read the lease, and the way Mr. Nichols has represented it. In the discussion of the
bond, I would comment that I don't believe many of my neighbors or other people that I
have talked to in the city would be willing to contribute money of the city's, when we get
so little in return, either in the way of cash, which is only 6,000 dollars beginning a
couple years ago and going on for the next 30 years, 6,000 dollars a year, or in the way
of pride. We get no pride out of it. I have talked to many golfers who golf other courses
and they make it very plain, they don't come here because of the maintenance and
because of the attitude of the people they run into when they -- they try and get here.
They feel insulted. So, I would like to make an alternate suggestion for exploration. I
do think many of the people of Meridian would support a bond that would buy out this
contract. I think we need to get this in the hands of our parks department, it would
probably be cheaper to buy them out and end up maintaining it ourselves. I don't know
that for sure, but I think a lot of people would like to see that explored, if possible.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wardle: All right. Thank you very much. I'm going to wrap it up now. I'd like to thank
everyone for their comments and thank everyone for all of their e-mails and we did get
all your e-mails and your telephone calls and you can still continue to contact me on
these issues if you have other things to say. I'm certainly always here to listen to those.
On the issue of the bond -- and I'm going to step real quickly into my Council role. I feel
that I was a fact finder in this effort and so I have brought what I feel are our -- most of
the facts that I need to make to -- or, excuse me, that I need to make a decision. I
believe that the golf course is an amenity to Meridian. I believe it is something which
can certainly increase property value and that it is -- it is of worth. However, having
talked to many of the citizens of Meridian, being one myself as well, I do not feel that the
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 20 of 56
citizens of Meridian would support a 1.5 million dollar general obligation bond to fix the
infrastructure of the golf course and as a Council person, it is my opinion that I don't feel
that the City of Meridian should take that bond to its citizens and so that is my opinion.
Rountree: That's your report and recommendation?
Wardle: I have reported, I have held my opinion and my recommendation until this
moment, and so that's my opinion. Thank you.
De Weerd: Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Nichols, drew up -- or pulled up on his computer the renewal. I'd like him to
read it publicly, so that these people realize what we were against when we renewed
this.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just for reference, at the time that
renewal came up, technically, the city had never performed a final inspection of the
second nine, so keep this in mind when you hear this term. Renewal. Lessee shall
have the option to renew this lease on the same terms and conditions for an additional
term of 30 years, provided lessee is in full compliance with all of the terms of this lease
at the time notice of intent to renew is given lessor. The city had not given notice of
default at the time that the renewal was given. And they complied with those
requirements for renewal. So, it's the same terms and conditions, as the lady says.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: If I could just clarify my earlier comments. I feel that the city has -- that the
people of Meridian have higher priorities, such as public safety, transportation, and a
number of other things and that I believe is the reason that they wouldn't support a bond
and the reason that I wouldn't take that to them.
De Weerd: Thank you for that clarity. Do the other Council members have any
comments they would like to add?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Just, I guess, a synopsis of what I have heard tonight is an indication of the
26 years of history we have with the golf course in the City of Meridian. The city being
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 21 of 56
desperate in the poor economic times of the late '70s, willing to enter into an agreement
and a lease of the language that we have and continue to have to live with today and
the rocky road at best and diametrically opposed positions at worst, that we face and
previous councils and mayors have faced since the '70s, 1978-79 time when the city
took on the golf course. I, for one, want to find a solution. I am a homeowner, I am a
homeowner on the golf course, as all of the rest of you are -- I think a good share of you
are. I feel your pain, but I'm positive there is a solution out there. I don't have it today,
we are probably not going to have it by the end of the summer, but I'm committed to
continue to work on options. I have heard some things here tonight that folks have
mentioned that have been thought of, but not necessarily from the public, that might
very well need to be explored. I'm not terribly interested in litigation as a solution, but
that's been mentioned by the operators of the golf course and at least that's how it was
reported in the Statesman. I'll leave it at that. I won't go there. I don't think that that's a
win-win for anybody. I think it's a lose -lose for both the city and the operators. But I'd
like to offer that I had a silver bullet, I'd like to offer that patience is going to win out, my
patience has long since left me on this particular issue, but I'm still seeking solutions
and we will continue to find solutions. I appreciate Shaun's endeavor in covering some
of this information. It's good information. I don't believe the Council is in a position this
evening to make any rash statement about -- we are going to go forth and get this in the
next month, because that's just not going to happen. We need cooperation of the
neighbors, we need cooperation with the providers, we need cooperation within our
Council and our representative legal counsels in this matter. Both sides, I believe, are
going to have to become less galvanized than the way they are and are going to have to
look at some concessions on both parties in order for this to work. If we don't get there,
then, I don't know that we will ever find a solution, other than ones that aren't particularly
palatable to me at this point in time. But thank you all for coming out and sharing your
opinions. I appreciate them. I have seen things that you have told me. I water, I mow, I
weed, I see things that shouldn't be happening on the golf course pretty much on a daily
basis, yet I still love Meridian, and it's a great place to live. Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I concur with Councilman Rountree, but I'd just like to add some other stuff. I'm
one of the few, probably, that was here when this was taking place and the deal with --
this wasn't a willingly contract, they -- some arms were twisted to even get Cherry Lane
Rec. to take it, because nobody wanted it, and, then, we had a bunch of bankruptcies
and stuff, but that's old story. I think it can be solved and it is going to -- like
Councilman Rountree said, it's going to take both parties to get in there and work. I will
say right up front that as far as I'm concerned, no taxpayer's dollar will go into it at this
point, we just -- there is other things, like Councilman Wardle said, that we need the
money for other than this. But I think we can work something out. It's been tough and
we need to get together and get that course so that the people that live on it can be
proud of it, too, and I'm like Charlie, I'm proud to live in Meridian, say I'm from Meridian,
I just -- and it would be an entity that would really benefit Meridian if we get it up to deal
Meridian City Councll
July 27, 2004
Page 22 of 56
and I think it can be -- I think a solution can be worked out between the two parties.
Thank you very much for coming. Keep writing letters and e-mails, call phoning, we will
get this solved. Like Councilman Rountree said, we are not going to do it overnight, it
didn't happen overnight, so give us time and we will get her solved somehow.
De Weerd: Thank you, Council. I guess I would have my statement. I live on the golf
course as well, but I would also ask Council that we identify some next steps, because,
as we all know, this has been going on for three years and I personally -- and I think the
operators and the neighbors are all looking for how we are going to move forward and
moving forward. There is -- the past is the past and we have to look at how we are
going to move forward together in this partnership. I think Nancy and the neighbors
have all said the same thing, we want a nice amenity, and we need to identify how we
can get there. We want it green. We want it weed free and we need to get rid of our
excuses and we are sitting up here adding to them and so we need to find some viable
solutions on how we are going to move forward -- in partnership. We don't want to
Micro manage and, personally, I don't care how much the city gets as along as it's
green and it's weed free and it's something that is an amenity that we are proud of in
our community. And it's the matter of how we are going to get there and I would say
that we have a Council that is determined to get there and that's a good thing. Where
the irrigation system is, we need to identify two. Where it is a system or it's the head or
it's the coverage or the length of time it waters or whatever, but we do have to move
forward in identifying those and just getting on, but —
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I would suggest that maybe the next step -- you know, we can gather data
forever and we can live in the past, which we needn't do anymore. It seems like that
always gets in the way of trying to think about how to move forward. I would suggest
either a facilitated or mediated discussion or dialogue between the Mayor and
representatives of the City Council and along with our attorney, with the golf course
operator and their legal staff, to see if there is some common ground on which we can
attempt to move forward with some of the issues of the irrigation system and with our
desire to have a clean and green golf course, which is -- sounds pretty simple, but is
not. If we can't get that done, then, we will remain at an impasse and we will continue to
bang our heads against the wall and I just throw that out for consideration.
De Weerd: I don't know what a mediator would cost and, certainly, we can bring
information back to Council next week and looking at that -- that approach and see
where we can take it from there. I don't know, Mr. City Attorney, do you have any
insight you wish to share on this?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, typically a mediator as such is not
used unless there is an impasse between parties and I don't know that there has been
that frank and open discussion between the parties in a fashion that leads us to know
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 23 of 56
that impasse exists. I think there needs to be a -- maybe we are there, but I'd rather see
an attempt made to find out, first, if the impasse exists and, then, we can decide
whether it's something that can be mediated or whether it's the thing that Mr. Rountree
raised that's not really in anybody's best interest but the lawyers and that's litigation.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I make that suggestion based on not what we heard this evening per se, but
that helped, but previous reports from Councilman Wardle about discussions with the
golf course folks indicated to me that there seemed to be a real unwillingness to even sit
down and talk about the idea of a standard and talk about those kinds of things without
a commitment on the part of the city to mediate or make changes in the irrigation
system. To me, that's where we want to get, but I don't see that either side is willing to
come off the position and so far the city's position is that we are not going to go there
and the golf course's position as it's been portrayed to us is that they are not going to
consider any changes either in the lease or agreements or to standards or any of those
kinds of things without first the city committing. So, it seems that, in my opinion, I think
we are at an impasse.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor -- and just to wrap this up real quickly, when I made my report I
gathered all the information that I had. It certainly was not an indication that I would
stop working on the issue or that it wasn't important. I think the piece that got answered
tonight was after exhausting all of the resources from the city, the only available one
that I could see available to solve the immediate problem, which was the landscape --
or, excuse me, the irrigation system, was to take a bond issue to the voters and I did not
hear — I expressed my opinion on that issue and I didn't hear from the rest of the
Council an indication that we need to go forth and pursue that and so I think we still -- it
doesn't resolve the issue, but I think the taxpayers' dollar position has been resolved
and so I would certainly be willing to work with the Mayor to look at other avenues of
cooperation.
De Weerd: I guess I would ask the attorney -- but in June it was decided not to budget
any money, so Council made a decision at that point. It sounds that a decision has
been made to not move forward in pursuing a bond without -- without a motion to start
further exploring that. So, I think it -- and I don't want to put the golf course on the spot
to ask any response to the conversation up to this point, but it might -- if we could have
Councilman Wardle, myself, Mr. Nichols, meet with the golf course and have the initial
conversation, see where we are at before we talk about mitigation or mediation and that
sort of thing and we can report back in the next couple of weeks as to how those
discussions went and where we go from there. Mr. Attorney, does that sound like a
doable plan?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 24 of 56
Bird: It sounds like a winner.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any --
Bird: It sounds like a winner. Let's do her.
De Weerd: Okay.
Rountree: I think that's what I had in mind.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Sounds great.
De Weerd: Thank you. Nancy? Okay. Thank you very much. And, again, thank you
all for coming. It seems like there is never a decision made, but we are getting there
and I think it's really important that we get to the table and start talking about this and
certainly you can -- Nancy has offered to take your phone calls, but, also, if you would
like to get your names and addresses to our city clerk's office, we can keep you
informed of future agenda items and we certainly can do that. It's easier by e-mail, but if
you can get your addresses to the city clerk, we would certainly appreciate that. And,
again, thank you for coming out tonight. Okay. Nothing further, Mr. Wardle?
Wardle: Nothing further -- excuse me -- further. We have Item No. 9, which is the
ordinance on the golf course, but we can move to the next department report until then.
B. Planning and Zoning — Anna Canning
Downtown Transportation Management Plan:
2. Downtown Parking Study:
De Weerd: Okay. And we will take further comment from those of you, who are here for
Items 9 and 10, but at this point we have Item B, which is Planning and Zoning, our
Director Anna Canning will talk to us about the Downtown Transportation Management
Plan.
Canning: Mayor, Members of the Council, I was talking to the Mayor the other day and
she mentioned that -- who did you hire and it occurred to me that we hadn't told you that
we had hired someone for the Downtown Transportation Management Plan -- or we are
in contract negotiations anyway and that was with Tom Hudson, Hudson Company, and
Theron Pierce, who is the transportation component of that, so I just wanted to let you
know that we are in contract negotiations and those should wrap up pretty quickly here.
The work is expected to start as soon as possible and they are certainly shooting for a
couple of weeks, August 16th, to begin the project. And, then, likewise, we have hired a
downtown parking study. It was also a contract for 6,000 dollars and Dennis Ferns is
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 25 of 56
out of -- from Carla Walker and Associates will be doing that and they have set a date
for the parking inventory and that will be August 11th from 10:00 to noon, so if you see a
few members of the city staff wandering around all downtown for a couple hours, we are
just counting parking spaces. So, that will -- that study will only take six to eight weeks
to complete and we will have that wrapped up this fiscal year. They were very patient.
We started talking to them last summer and we finally got around to it this summer. We
wanted to wait until the -- the first Hudson plan was complete, so that we knew what we
were looking for. And that's it. I just wanted to let you know we had -- that we are
working on those contracts.
Item 8: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
Item 9: Ordinance No. Amending Unlawful
Trespassing on Municipal Golf Course (First of Three Readings):
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any questions from Council on those? We appreciate you
moving forward on both of these studies. It was identified as the next step in our
marketing strategy report from Tom Hudson and his work that he did and these are very
good, obvious, next steps. Okay. Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, just that I need to address something with the Council before
first -- for the title reading or anything on No. 9 or 10.
De Weerd: Okay. I imagine Stacy left. I just wanted to
amendments for the study for the Downtown Transportation
amendments.
Rountree: It's in there.
Bird: Its in there. Both of them.
De Weerd: Is it?
Canning: It was, Madam Mayor.
make sure that the funding
Study are included in these
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Council, any further questions or comments?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think on these next two items we have never -- we have never had three
readings. We need to have the attorney get us some steps on how we go about this.
This is the first of three readings.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Nichols.
Meridian Clty Council
July 27, 2004
Page 26 of 56
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just -- I want to give you first a little
background. At Council's direction we worked on some clean-up amendments and new
language pertaining to golf carts and the golf course and that ordinance originally came
before you as one ordinance amending different portions of the city code on both topics.
Last Thursday or Friday Councilman Nary asked that the topics be split out into two
separate ordinances for consideration of the Council and that's why there is delay in
getting the documents to you, instead of having them to the clerk by close of business
on Thursday. We didn't have enough time to get them put together that way. So, just
so that you know now why you're looking at two, instead of just one ordinance, so that it
splits out the golf cart issues separately from the trespassing issue. So, just -- I wanted
you to be aware of that. State code provides that ordinances can be approved in one
reading by suspension of the rules if Council unanimously approves it and that has been
your typical manner for adopting ordinances. Councilman Nary in particular asked that
these ordinances be considered in the usual fashion, which is to have three separate
readings on three separate dates, so that amendments, if necessary, can be made, so
that comment can be received on each one. So, the typical process would be for the
clerk to read the ordinance by title only and, then, you can receive comments on the
ordinance. And, then, if the Council approves the first reading, it moves the ordinance
forward to a second reading at a subsequent meeting. If, at that meeting, the Council
moves it forward again to the third reading, then, the third reading would be the decision
on whether the ordinance is adopted or not. A motion to move to the second or to the
third reading is not a motion to adopt; it's just to move the ordinance farther in the
process for adoption.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols, I guess if there are any changes that are recommended, would
that, then, start the first reading over again?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, not necessarily. It depends upon the
content of the change. If the change is not substantial, then, it moves forward as
amended for the second reading.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nichols: Or the third reading.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions from -- Mr. Berg?
Berg: Madam Mayor, I just want to make a point that there are copies of both
ordinances in the back of the room. They are separate. They are the most current
ones that we have as amended by the attorney on Monday.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. If, Mr. Clerk, you will, please, read Item No. 9 by
title only. Do we have a number for that? Do we assign a number during the reading
stage? Yes.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 27 of 56
Berg: Okay. Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council. This is Ordinance 04-1092.
De Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, read that by title only.
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. An Ordinance of the City of
Meridian providing for a new section of the Meridian City Code to be Section 6-3-5-A-1,
entitled unlawful trespassing on municipal golf course and a new Section 6-3-5-A-2,
Penalty of Chapter 5, Title 7, providing for conflict, validity, savings clause and providing
for an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Berg. You have heard this ordinance by title only. Is there
anyone who would like the city clerk to read it in its entirety? Okay. Mr. Nichols, I guess
I do have a procedural question. Do we take comment on this or do we take public
testimony? Do I -- would I be required to swear in anyone wishing to provide comment
on this item?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is not a quasi-judicial proceeding;
its a legislative proceeding. Therefore, the -- any of those offering input do not need to
be sworn.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you very much. Okay. Item 9 before you is the amending of
unlawful trespassing on municipal golf course. Is there anyone who would like to
provide testimony on this item? I will note that we do have a couple of e-mails regarding
this and I believe, Gordon, I will mutilate your last name and I know you just said it to
me, but Gordon provided -- and we also have something from Mr. John Hedrick, as well
as Tom Clark, and a response from our meeting last week dated July 25th from Cherry
Lane Recreation, Inc. And those are on the public record. So, is there anyone who
would like to make comment on this item?
R.Zaremba: Thank you for the opportunity on this ordinance. My name is Renee
Zaremba. Same story, unfortunately. I am in disagreement of paying a hundred dollar
fine to gain access to an area that I have to maintain due to the inefficiencies of the
landlord in keeping the course maintained at a level that will prevent weeds from going
into my yard, increase of pest control or problems with pests, as well as the fact that I
have to pay someone every week to come on the golf course to mow this strip in front of
my yard, as well as to weed the course itself. So, if I am going to continue to do that, I
will not want to get fined a hundred dollars to maintain that -- to maintain the property
and value of my own home. I think that's not fair. I think this is another way to get
around an ongoing issue and I think that, you know, I need to have access to the course
in order to continue to maintain the property that's in front of my back yard.
De Weerd: Thank you. Chief, I guess I would like you to make comment on our current
ordinance and the enforcement thereof. I think that conversation was part of the record
last week on one of the reasons this ordinance is being changed is it was the
impression that any violation was a misdemeanor, which was you go to jail and I wanted
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 28 of 58
-- and that your officers would have to come and personally take reports. If you can,
please, comment on that, I would appreciate it.
Musser: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, in regards to a portion of the proposed
amendment change here, we were looking to decriminalize trespass by making it an
infraction, as opposed to a misdemeanor. A misdemeanor is punishable by up to 300
dollars fine and jail time as well. There is a misconception that you have to go to jail at
the time. However, an officer can issue a citation summons for the offense, as long as
the party witnessed it is willing to sign on that citation summons or we can also take a
report and route the report into the prosecuting attorney and a summons or a warrant
can be issued out from the prosecuting attorney by appearing before a judge. The main
issue that we were after, though, is, apparently, there was some confusion on third -
party relays where perhaps an agent of the recreation company, the tenant of the golf
course, would see something or to be a violation going on and trying to make a timely
response out, we have problems making contact with the people or getting with them or
ultimately having a signature there, you know, by the person that actually witnessed it.
This presents a problem for the officers, they have to make contact with people and
sometimes it's a wee bit of a bluff by some officers to tell people, well, you need to
comply or you may end up going to jail. Not really good business or appropriate
practice on our end of it, something we have discussed, and that's one of the other
things we are looking at here for decriminalization, it moves it into a realm where we can
issue just a citation for an infraction, which is considered a civil offense. I would agree
that perhaps the fine is a little steep, its the highest allowable amount that we have at
this point, however, when we were doing the research on this instance, that was one of
the things that we failed to convey is to what would be a reasonable fine at this point on
it and it ended up just being put into the hundred dollars. However, the Council has the
option to reduce that, amend the fee down to what they think would be appropriate on it
and, then, carry it forth otherwise. And, hopefully, that answers part of your
questionnaire as to the misdemeanor versus infraction aspects of this proposed
ordinance amendment.
De Weerd: Thank you for clarifying it. Just for, I guess, reference, what is a speeding
ticket and I guess it's double in a school zone; correct?
Musser: Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, speeding tickets are relative to
the offense being committed. Usually you're in a vicinity of about 47 dollars on an
average speeding violation. It can be up to 100 dollars under city ordinance in a school
zone for a violation and you also have the 20 miles an hour over runs it up to near a
hundred dollars for a speeding citation as well, plus depending on the circumstance you
could be looking at inattentive driving or reckless driving, which are both misdemeanor
offenses, as opposed to infractions, but they could involve speed.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Rountree: As well as court costs.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 29 of 56
De Weerd: Yes. Yes, please. Mr. Casey, it sure is nice seeing you.
Casey: I didn't really plan this, but -- Madam Mayor and City Council --
De Weerd: Please state your name.
Casey: My name is Walter Casey.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Casey: I live at 3640 Sugar Creek Drive and I have one problem with your -- well, I don't
know what to say. I guess the trespass. If I want to go to my neighbor's right next door,
I got to go out on the golf course and go back into their house or I have to go clear on
out to the street and come in around the hedge and back into the front door. Now, I
don't think that's reasonable trespass. I'm not crossing the golf course, I'm just simply
going next door and maybe the chief would like to respond to that.
De Weerd: Well, we will ask him to respond if we need to at the end of all the
comments. Okay?
Casey: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you all. Is there any further comments?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, Members of the City Council, David Zaremba again. Its been
awhile since I read their lease, but my memory is that one of the issues that the golf
course probably raises is a safety issue and this is not something that impacts the city,
since their lease, I believe, requires them to indemnify the city against any safety issues
that happen during their management. So, this appears to me to be something that,
again, benefits one private enterprise with -- actually, I got one of my questions
answered I was going to ask and Chief Musser has answered -- it's the police that
would have to respond to this and it's the city that would have to pay for the
enforcement of this. One of my other questions was who collects the 100 dollars? I'm
guessing if the city enforces it, the city keeps the hundred dollars. I would hope that's
the case. But I do feel that in this format it unfairly benefits a private enterprise different
that any other public property or any other trespassing. I certainly believe they need to
defend themselves against anybody that would maliciously cause harm to the golf
course and the city as well wants to make sure that that's prevented. But in this format -
- and I believe some other people will talk about it as well -- the people who are likely to
be subject to this are the neighboring homeowners who are trying to protect their own
property and actually help the golf course with the maintenance and perhaps children
who are taking the shortest path to school and I believe that just needs to be addressed
in a different manner. We have a case here where the golf course is wanting something
to happen, we all know from previous discussion that there is things that the city would
like to have happen. The way to have those happen is to get together and renegotiate
the lease. To me this is a back door way for them to get something that they want
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 30 of 56
without the city getting anything that it wants, in addition to the city getting some extra
work and I would be against it. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Margulieux: My name is Gordon Margulieux and I know that you have mentioned you
were going to put my e-mail in the record, but there is some questions in it that I'd still
like to get answered, because when I read the proposed ordinance, there is no
exceptions, it's the entire area of the golf course and for the last 25 plus years there
have been people living on the golf course, living in the areas around there, and using
those paths that are the walk paths. Not harming the golf course, they are not splashing
in the pond and they are not running across playing football on the greens, they are just
walking in the evening time enjoying just the surroundings. The question would be is
would those people be ticketed and if it was a family of four, would it be 400 dollars?
And I answer to the question of how much -- if that was kind of high, the golf course
ordinance -- the golf cart is also -- would be punishable by an infraction of only 25
dollars. I mean, you know, if you drive in a golf cart on the public street you could be
charged only 25 dollars. So, I'm not sure exactly how all the details fall in. Plus, I'm
also one of those ones that do maintenance around the golf course that they don't do,
like the weeding and the cutting of the branches. If I'm on the other side of the golf
course — or on the golf course side of my fence, could I get ticketed for pruning my trees
or for spraying for the weeds? I think maybe some of the solutions to those could be a
buffer zone, to say that if you own a house and you're doing maintenance on that side of
the house at a certain amount of distance into the golf course is a no ticket zone, but I'm
not sure that's a question that is not answered by the ordinance and I think that's a -- I
think that we have to deal with. The other one is that, again, for 25 years plus they have
been -- people have been walking around there and all of a sudden they are going to
appear on the golf course and they are going to get ticketed, because there are no
zones. I only know of one sign that says -- by the irrigation district that says don't walk
here. But, other than that, I know of no signs that say this golf course is off limits to
pedestrians or bike riders. And so my concern would be all of a sudden they are going
to start -- and so whoever does this, whether it's the city or the golf course, are they
going to have to be required to put signs up to notify those people that things have
changed, like they do when they change -- when they changed Cherry Lane from
around 50 miles an hour to 35 and put little flags up saying beware -- we are going to
have to do that and who pays for that? I'm not sure. Other issues I have is who issues
the tickets? I know that on the 15th of June the police chief had mentioned that they
could actually give the authority to the golf course employees to ticket. I think that
would be a wrong move. I think that would lead to inconsistencies. I know I have been
on the -- many times on the vindictive side of the golf course, even when I didn't do
anything, but they thought I did, and I'd hate to be on that side again just because they
felt like it. And so there are no -- there are some questions about the ordinance that I'm
quite sure about and although I have filled out a lot of questions, I'm not sure if you have
any answers to them.
De Weerd: Thank you, Gordon. Any questions from Council? Thank you.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 31 of 56
Crandall: My name is David Crandall and I'm actually glad I stayed, because this is an
issue that will have a direct bearing on my responsibilities to James Place. I'm the
neighborhood manager for James Place, which is a senior citizens community, a gated
community with a perimeter fence. It happens to coincide with the fairways. One of my
responsibilities is about once a month to walk the perimeter fence. I'm looking for loose
posts, loose rails, just to make sure the integrity of the gates and the fences themselves
and the most practical way to do it is to walk outside, which is on the golf course
property. If I was trying to have access to each persons' backyard, it would be very
difficult and very time consuming. So, I would have -- I would have some concerns,
because each time I do my walk around I would be subject to a hundred dollar fine and
a misdemeanor arrest and going to jail and that wouldn't -- that wouldn't be nice at all.
So, I hope in your considerations on this you recognize that you do have a unique
community of James Place that does border the golf course fairways and it is one of my
responsibilities to maintain that perimeter fencing and I need access to the outside.
Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you.
R.Zaremba: Renee Zaremba again. I wanted to make two quick short points. The first
is many many families use the access roads after hours and many children use that for
going to school and it was brought to my attention that in the recent USGA report by the
golf course committee, they did recommend in one particular stretch that that pavement
gets graft or paved and another alternative is put up the -- what is it, the netting to
prevent -- for safety when there are people walking across that pavement and, then, the
other issue I want to make is I think that we need to look at recommendations -- I mean
if you are spending a lot of time and resources and looking at solutions to the golf
course across many different issues, it doesn't seem like we are really executing any
other recommendations or even the recommendations are even being considered. And
I think that this is another example of that. There are other alternatives in other reports
that resolve this problem without fining people who live in the area that use that road for
access to schools and for walking -- casual walking. And the other point I want to make
is there are trees that are donated by the homeowners for -- on the golf course and my
neighbor just donated four trees to put on the golf course and currently there are no
irrigation systems to water those four trees and the four trees were placed on there to
prevent balls from going into our yards. So, if this type of ordinance exists, then, we
need access to water those trees, to beautify the golf course as much as we can, as
well as -- and what is going to be the problem when golf players are playing on the golf
course and they come into my yard to trespass to pick up their ball? Is that
trespassing?
De Weerd: Any further comments?
Lovan: Brea Lovan. I'm with Cherry Lane Golf Course.
De Weerd: And if you can --
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 32 of 56
Lovan: Oh, I got to go down. Sorry. I guess in part of this I am confused, because the
City of Meridian has an existing trespassing ordinance; am I correct? According if —
trying to do something to decriminalize, make it less of an infraction.
De Weerd: The changes our outlined -- or underlined.
Lovan: Underlined?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Lovan: Okay. I have heard a lot of testimony tonight on a lot of homeowners that care
and they come out, they take care of -- they have to walk a perimeter fence, et cetera.
But on the landing area they are talking about or the one part — you know which one, on
number three that goes across there, that's a landing area for golf balls. I have been
out there at 10:00 o'clock and had people walking across there on lady's day -- oh, well,
this is the way to get through here. I'm not going to walk clear around. And I says for
your safety -- because I was playing, I didn't identify myself -- for your safety you need
to know this is a landing area, you could be hit by a golf ball. Well, I'm moving, so it
doesn't matter. You know, that's — that's the part Cherry Lane doesn't want to see is
people getting hurt, people damaging property, people running with their dogs out there,
throwing frisbees, baseballs, whatever, when there is still golfers out there. It's an
issue. It's not saying we are trying to be ogres about it, we want everybody's safety, but
we also want to have a means than talking ourself until we are blue in the face every
night and we are out there five, six times a night with people with their dogs, with their
frisbees, kids playing football -- those are the types of things we just want to make the
public aware of that can be a safety issue. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Nichols, I guess I would ask, you know, the changes that
are being recommended on this, how it changes what is currently on the books.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what was presented to you by -- I
believe it is -- I can't recall whether it was the police department or Councilman Nary's
experience as a prosecutor -- was that for the current trespassing ordinance to be
enforced at the golf course requires that the individual be told to leave and they refused
to leave and the problem the golf course has encountered, as Mrs. Lovan testified to,
was not the folks taking care of the weeds or the trees and those sorts of things, it was
the jogger that ran in front of Councilman Rountree's party here this spring when they
were playing, that sort of thing, that people that weren't playing golf and they weren't
maintaining property, they were doing other things, and so the change that's reflected in
this ordinance is to specify who can be out on the course regardless of who the operator
is, whether it's Cherry Lane or the City of Meridian or somebody else, who is allowed to
be on the course. Some of the testimony that we have received tonight indicates that
some folks think certain times it's like a greenbelt and the city has leased this ground
out and didn't reserve any pathways or recreation times or picnic areas or anything as
part of that lease. So, the provisions in the lease are actually partly based upon
Meddian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 33 of 56
municipal trespass -- municipal golf course trespass ordinances from other places.
Specifically we looked at McCall's, even though that's a city owned and operated golf
course. So, that's -- you directed us to come up with a trespassing on the golf course
ordinance. We worked with the prosecutor's office to develop that ordinance and ran it
past the police department and that's the genesis for this one. The difference between
the existing ordinance, which will still be in place, so that if the golfer who retrieves the
ball from Mr. and Mrs. Zaremba's backyard, to be trespassing would have to be told to
leave and, then, they refuse to leave. And so that's how the differences are here
between these.
De Weerd: So, as I understand it, right now it's they have to be told to leave and if they
don't leave, then, they are in violation?
Nichols: Right.
De Weerd: And the revision does what?
Nichols: The revision applies just to the golf course and, in fact, makes it a per se
violation. If you're not one of these categories, then, you can be ticketed for
trespassing.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Question for Mr. Nichols -- and I believe we have heard some good comments
tonight about maintenance of certain areas of neighbors' yards and I certainly agree that
we need to craft some sort of language to allow people who are living on the golf
course, even if they are maintaining a fence, whether it be painting a wrought iron fence
-- certainly I don't think that we would expect them to do it from their side of the fence
and so I think that whether it be a buffer zone or some of those issues, I think those are
very good comments and we could add that to the list of -- list of persons who are
allowed to remain or enter the premises of the golf course. So, I think that maybe a
number eight could be crafted. Would that significantly change the ordinance or is that
a -- something we can --
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you want to identify additional
categories that you want us to include in the ordinance, I would prefer that you do that
and, then, we bring you back a new ordinance, rather than a second or a third reading,
because we like to have it identified and we'd like to have time to try to think through
what that means, how do you define the buffer zone, if you use that comment, how do
you define maintenance, how do you get really at the issues that the golf course lessee
was bringing to your attention in terms of safety issues. It's not just safety issues, but
maintenance issues, dogs and those sorts of things on the course. So, if you want to
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 34 of 56
identify some specific things and we will go back to the drawing board, we will put more
stuff together, we will run it past the prosecutor's office for their input again and the
police department and get something back to you differently, if you will direct us how
you want that done.
De Weerd: I appreciate those comments. I guess -- yes, chief.
Musser: Madam Mayor, in conjunction with what Council has made a recommendation
on, I would further proffer this, is if the Council so decides to withdraw this ordinance at
this point, I would propose a meeting at the police department at 7:00 p.m. on August
9th, to see if we could enter into some of this cooperative era of meeting and
cooperating with the neighbors that the Cherry Lane Recreation alluded to earlier in our
previous discussions and meet with these homeowners, so we could define some of
those additional items for inclusion in here as to what those things would be in terms of
what would be allowable on the golf course. I will make myself available to help
facilitate and sit down and do that, so we can at least come to some sort of agreement
on it if the Council would like to so move that direction, because I think it's obvious to
myself and from what I'm hearing from Council as well is that there are going to be
some other pieces that need to be added on here.
De Weerd: And I appreciate that. I guess one question did come up. We did try and
notify all of the homeowners associations. We took the Secretary of State's list and I
think in Cherry Lane -- Lakes at Cherry Lane No. 3 we didn't have a current contact, it
was from 2003, but -- so if you all have homeowners associations that get information
out to you -- and, again, I would ask you to get your names and addresses, e-mails, to
the city clerk, so we can keep you informed, but, chief, I appreciate that offer. I guess,
Council, I would ask that — what -- your ideas on deferring this. This is why we split the
two ordinances, so that in --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: -- maybe in anticipation of this. Yes, Mr. Rountree. Since I can't finish my
thought with you sitting next to me --
Rountree: Well, you said something earlier this evening about being short of words or
not being able to speak in a certain time and I'm not sure that I've noticed that's the
instance, so I'm sorry I interrupted you, but I just felt compelled to do that.
De Weerd: I think we need to count words on the record, because I think he's used
more than I have. Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Maybe I'm just not as suspect and paranoid
about this as I sense that there is, but put yourself as a neighbor, not of the golf course
but as a neighbor, and you have an issue with a tree or a weed or a barking dog or
whatever it might be next door to you. Are you compelled to freely go over there and do
what you wish on your own accord at any point in time or do you do what I typically
Meridian City Council
July 27. 2004
Page 35 of 56
would do and go to the neighbor and ask permission to assist in removing the tree,
clean up a mess, complain about a barking dog, whatever the situation might be. This
particular ordinance has a provision that anybody can be on that golf course that's not
enumerated in those that shouldn't be, as long as they have permission from the
operator and keep in mind this operator is our neighbor. I have issues with the golf
course. Always have and they know I do. But we talk. I have a neighbor who decided
one day to dig a hole for a trampoline and used my driveway and my side yard as the
haul road for moving the dirt out of his backyard, because he can't get in his backyard.
Now, he did this while I was on vacation. I was extremely upset when I got home and
saw this pathway through my side yard. He was civil enough to leave me a note that he
was sorry he had done that, but he didn't bother to ask permission of anybody watching
the home. The same neighbor asked me one day -- I got these big trees to plant in my
back yard, what do you think about me driving on the golf course cart path back there to
get in there and dump these trees off and I said it's not for me to say, but I would
suggest that you ask permission of the golf course, knowing full well he wasn't going to
get permission from the golf course, because he wanted to do it in the middle of the
day. To me, I don't see the golf course folks as ogres on this issue. I think they
probably would say, yes; very much, if you need to maintain your property and adjacent
golf course property, because we either can't get to it or can't do it to your satisfaction,
we would very much appreciate you doing that, provided that you're not out there
walking your kids and your family through a fairway in a landing zone with people on the
tee box that are teeing off golf balls and these people are oblivious to the fact of where
they are. There are some serious issues going on on the golf course. I don't think we
can -- as a city can condone Easter egg hunts on the golf course or joggers during the
day when people are playing golf. It's not safe. I think we have a responsibility to
provide some ordinance ability to take care of these issues. I also believe the golf
course has a responsibility to be a good neighbor and we have a responsibility to be a
good neighbor with them, even though we have to bite our lip occasionally. Ask them. I
would be willing to bet -- and Mrs. Corrie provided a perfect example of they weren't
going to cooperate, but they didn't say you couldn't do it, do your half and they got it
done and the golf course didn't do their half, well, maybe some day they will get around
to doing it, but they didn't say no. I don't know. I feel strongly about the things I see
happening on the golf course that are wrong. I see people bringing their dogs to the
ponds and working their dogs where people are teeing off across the ponds. That's
wrong. They shouldn't be there. It is not a multiple use area. It is a leased golf course
to the operators who have the sole responsibility of operating it as a golf course.
Operation piece is not the subject of this ordinance. So much for preaching. But I see a
need. I think the language is in here to make everybody be able to live with one
another. If we have to get a little more specific about who can and can't be on there, I
can go to that to some degree, but if it gets too -- if the list gets too long, it, again,
becomes another useless piece of paper. That's my song and dance. Having said that
De Weerd: That was a lot of words. Anything else that Council wants to add before I
finish my statement?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 36 of 56
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Just real quickly, I appreciate the chief offering the police station to work with
both golf course and the neighbors. I think it's important to have some additional
community input and I would seek to -- however, I, like Councilman Rountree, don't
think that we need to spell out every individual potential use. I certainly think we need
to protect the neighbors and the homeowners which own property on the course and I
think that's important, but I also think it's important to -- at this point what we are trying
to do is we are trying to take what currently is a misdemeanor, which is a fairly serious
offense, a jail -able offense, which is -- currently can be enforced under any of the
activities that we are talking about today. That's the reality of today. But in my mind the
golf course is not necessarily a -- it's not a public park, it is a golf course, and so if we
can help to mitigate some of -- some of that undue process that has to do with the
misdemeanor and still get to the same area, I think it would be important.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, do you have anything to add?
Bird: No. I concur with Councilman Rountree. I believe -- and I understand where the
neighbors, like the Zarembas are coming from and stuff, but I'm sure that if they will go
over there and -- you know, and ask and the golf course would be -- would be willing to
let them do that kind of stuff. I think it's just -- it's unsafe. I have golfed out there, seen
people taking their dogs for a walk, had school kids going across using that covered
ditch now as a pathway for them and I'd hate to be the golfer that hit one of those young
kids and hurt them or something. I think this is -- I think this is an ordinance that ought
to go forward for the second reading as stands.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I guess I will give my two cents worth, since no one has a
choice. Yes, we will take another comment. If you will, please, wait until you step up to
the microphone. And, again, restate your --
Gasaway: Ellen Gasaway, 1950 Incline Way, and I have a question. Would a golf
course marshal settle some of these problems? It seems to me other golf courses have
marshals and golfers and people adhere, because they know the marshal is coming
very shortly. That's my statement.
De Weerd: Thank you. No, David, I'm sorry, you have already been up here. Well,
depending on what Council decides to do. If they want to move it forward for a second
reading or not. If they make a motion, I certainly would entertain your further
comments. You know, I guess we don't want to continue to reflect on the past and I
think Nancy has extended an olive branch and it seems like they are very interested to
hear what people have to say, but a lot of this on the trespassing, it's distrust and, you
know, if you're going to be targeted, it's also a legitimate safety issue. You know, I live
by hole three and my kid probably is one of the big -- I take her to school every morning,
so I know she doesn't do it in the morning, but I do know in that USGA report they
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 37 of 56
recognize that as a long stretch of fairway from Turnberry to Crooked Creek or to Silver
Leaf and they suggested to put in a safe place that people can cross there, with the
realization -- now, my daughter is three blocks from school, but she doesn't cut across
there, she is walking one mile and, you know, there is some -- some issues in that
regard, too, but I do agree with their safety issue, you know, and we can't -- we can't be
with our kids every single minute and we can't -- I see joggers and walking their dogs --
it's a heavily used path, but it looks like a path and that's the first problem. It looks like a
path and it needs to look like a fairway. Until it does people are going to use it. I also
appreciate Gordon's comments on signing this. You know, where all do you put signs to
tell the public this is trespassing and what the fines are? So, that's another problem. I
guess we need to stop the history not talking to the neighbors, talk to the neighbors, let
them know these changes are coming up, and seeing if they can be part of the solution.
You know, I'm just not one that says policies and throwing out rules and fines change
behavior. It's really asking people to come to the table and be part of the solution that
brings us there and that hasn't happened and I guess that's why I appreciate Chief
Musser's comments in saying let's bring people to the table and let's find a way that we
can tell the people using it as a pathway what the dangers are and that, boy, wouldn't all
of us feel bad if that child gets hit, but also realize, like the USGA did in their
recommendations, that you need to provide something there, because that's an awfully
long stretch and people will still be people and want to cross, so let's give them a safe
crossing access point. So, I -- in my opinion, Councilman Bird -- I know you want to
move this forward, but I think there are some things that can be discussed and it's
healthy bringing people to the table and finding solutions. It may come back exactly the
same as you have it here tonight, but I'll tell you what, having people be able to do it in a
non -threatening and -- sitting up here, I always know that I have been on the other side
of that podium, it's not comfortable, and that you can have a healthy dialogue and
maybe find something that might craft it a little bit better or might not. But it is an
opportunity for everyone to get together and share their views. So, Council, what would
you like to do on this?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have a procedural question. Can we table this, hold it, move it on? What
are our options?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Rountree: What's the right word?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it always fowls up a good city clerk's
numbering system to just table things and so I would suggest that if you want this to go
through more work, that the ordinance be withdrawn, so that the number can be
assigned to the next ordinance and that you direct whoever on staff, however you want
to it worked -- however the Council wants this thing worked or looked at for
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 38 of 56
improvements. That would be -- if you're not going to move forward with it in essentially
the same form, then, I would say it would be better to withdraw the draft ordinance and
bring it back in a different form as a new one.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: In counsel's opinion, if we were to move it forward, at the same time move
forward with the offer made by the police chief and something non -substantive came out
of that, we could continue it forward. If something of substance came out of that,
withdraw it on reading two and make those modifications and, then, move forward.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the ordinance isn't approved until the
third reading, unless until you waive those reading rules, so if you move it forward on
first reading, it can still be amended or withdrawn and a new one prepared.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nichols. I guess I would ask Council what do you gain? You
can bring back this and ask for one reading with suspension of rules after providing the
neighbors and the golf course a chance to come together and put their concerns on the
table and see what comes back, so I guess I don't know what you gain. It's all the
same. You can have three readings or you can ask for -- I guess have faith that people
can live with what comes back. So, you're still up on me on words.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, I appreciate the lecture. Having received answers to my
questions, Madam Mayor, I move that we withdraw Ordinance 04-1092 for further input
from the session that was identified by Police Chief Musser to potentially modify those
persons -- the list of persons who can and cannot be on the golf course and that we
defer this until such time as that can take place. Do we need a date certain?
De Weerd: I think the chief offered a date
Bird: August 9th.
Rountree: Until August 9th?
Musser: August 9th.
Rountree: Until August 9th, at which time it would be brought before the City Council for
consideration.
Bird: That would be August 10th.
Rountree: August 10th. Yeah.
Nichols: Madam Mayor --
Meridian City council
July 27, 2004
Page 39 of 56
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols is going to tell you, Councilman Rountree, we really need to
have time for the attorney's office to work on anything that results after the meeting.
Rountree: So, what's a date certain; do we know?
De Weerd: So, when you withdraw you do not have to state a date certain.
Nichols: No.
Rountree: Okay. I withhold my comments about date certain.
De Weerd: Okay. And we will, then, renumber the Item No. 10 if we need to. Do I
have a second?
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to withdraw Item No. 9 and ask that
Chief Musser pursue with the meeting among the neighbors. Is there any further
discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Wardle: Just within further discussion, because we do not have a date certain, as soon
as we can after that August 9th meeting I would like to see it before the Council.
De Weerd: I think that's duly noted by the city attorney.
Wardle: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. All those in favor say aye. Those opposed nay. Okay. The
ayes. Have it.
MOTION CARRIED: TWO AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: Ordinance No.
of Three Readings):
De Weerd: Okay. Item 10 is now Ordinance No. 04-1092. Mr. Clerk, will you, please,
read Item No. 10 by title only.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
-Page 40 of 56
Berg: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 04-1092, an
ordinance of the City of Meridian providing for a new section of the Meridian City Code
to be Section 6-3-5-A-2 entitled Penalty and amending Section 3-B-1 and to provide for
a new 3-B-2 of Chapter 5, Title 7, and to renumber the present numbers thereafter to
allow Cherry Lane Recreation equipment to operate on Meridian city streets while in
transit to the golf course and to allow residents of Meadow Lake Village to use golf carts
throughout that subdivision and providing for amendment to Sections 5 of Chapter 5,
Title 7, Meridian City Code, to provide that violation of the chapter are punishable as
infractions with a set penalty of 25 dollars, providing for conflict, validity, savings clause,
and providing an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard this ordinance read by title only. Is there
anyone who would like to hear it read in its entirety? Hearing none, is there anyone who
wishes to comment on this ordinance?
Margulieux: My name is Gordon Margulieux and I generally agree with the ordinance,
with only one exception. There is only one -- as far as I know, one storage area.
Instead of just listing it as a storage area, I believe we should have it as a specific
address. That way if the storage area changes, there could be some feedback as to
whether or not this ordinance is still applicable or is necessary. Certainly if it moves
farther away that might cause some other traffic, so my recommendation is that instead
of just listing it as a storage area, that we actually give the specific address to it.
De Weerd: Thank you for your comments. Is there anyone else who would like to
comment? Yes, sir.
D.Gasaway: My name is Don Gasaway and I only have one question. I thought at the
time the clubhouse was built weren't there provisions for the shed at that time being
over around -- somewhere in the area of the clubhouse? I can't remember exactly. I
think there were. And so the question is --
De Weerd: The answer is I don't know, but does --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I believe the answer to that question is it was talked about -- I believe there
was a suggestion made that a plan be submitted to the city that would include that, but
to my knowledge that's never been done.
D.Gasaway: Are you positive? Just asking. Are you positive about that or is that just --
Rountree: I don't --
D.Gasaway: Does P&Z -- I assume would P&Z have something on that?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 41 of 56
Rountree: No.
Canning: Is this regarding a storage area? Their files are here at city clerk's office. We
could possibly research them. It would take some effort, though.
D.Gasaway: I'm just wondering if -- if it was in the plan to be done with the clubhouse?
Rountree: No.
D.Gasaway: You're saying, no, it was not definitely? Is that what you're saying?
Rountree: That's my understanding.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'm like Councilman Rountree, if I remember right, it was talked about. In fact, the
location was -- they discussed putting a sign up where the location was going to saying
future location of the maintenance shed or maintenance building and as never been
done. And to my knowledge it's -- that's about as far as it's ever got. That's what I
remember.
D.Gasaway: Okay. That's all I need to know.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there anyone else who would like to comment at this time? Okay.
Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: The ordinance provides for the operators of the golf course to utilize similar
type equipment on city streets while in transit to the storage for the golf course.
However, I'm confused by that paragraph, which is paragraph 1-13 and paragraph two,
at least they seem to be kind of canceling one another out and somewhat in conflict. I
mean it allows for the exception of 7 -5 -3 -B -1-B, but, then, it -- but, then, it goes on to
state that you cannot operate them on Cherry Lane, so -- and that's where they would
be operated.
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Rountree: And if the lawyer language on that is fine, I'm okay with it.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 42 of 56
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the intent of this change was to allow
Cherry Lane to operate its equipment back and forth from its storage area to the course
and so when looking at existing city code, which is a number two, or is the new two,
since some of that equipment resembles golf carts or they are modified golf carts, we
had to add in that except as provided. So, the only ones that, then, are allowed are,
essentially, the equipment itself, but we didn't want any ambiguity about that part of it.
Rountree: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there any further questions? Comments? Okay. Hearing none, chief, do
you have anything you want to add over there? Do you need to add anything? Okay.
Council, what would you like to do?
Rountree: What was the number on this one?
De Weerd: The ordinance number is 04-1092.
Rountree: Mr. Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I would move that we move Ordinance No. 04-1092 to second reading.
De Weerd: Do I have a second? Does this motion die for lack of a second?
Bird: Now wait a minute. I'll second, so we can have a vote.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there discussion?
Bird: Well, I -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I think that if we -- to me this is much more confining than the previous ordinance
was and it seems we needed to get a lot more comments in on it. I would question
whether we have had enough comment in on this, because you are taking some use of
golf carts away from Autumn Faire and some of the subdivisions around the golf course
that do use the golf course that do drive their golf carts over there now and you're not
allowing them to come across Ten Mile or Ustick or Black Cat, nor Cherry Lane, and I
just wonder if we have had enough input from the people surrounding it. That would be
my only comment.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 43 of 56
Rountree: I might comment on those. The current ordinance already makes those
provisions. The only changes in this ordinance allows for equipment operation for
maintenance of the golf course and allows for use of golf carts in Meadow Lake Village
Sub, which is a subdivision that's an assisted living type of facility and they plan on
utilizing golf carts as a means of providing mobility for some of the residents within that
subdivision. Those are the only changes in the current ordinance. All the things you
spoke to are already not allowed under ordinance.
Bird: Yeah. You're right.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any further discussion? The motion is to move this to its
second reading. I don't need a roll call vote to move it to second reading, do I, Mr.
Attorney? Mr. Clerk?
Berg: Yes. Error on the good side.
De Weerd: Okay. We will error on the good side.
Berg: And just a clarification. Is the second reading to the next meeting?
Nichols: Yes, sir.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 11: Tabled from July 20, 2004: FP 04-038 Request for Final Plat approval of
30 single-family residential building lots and 5 common lots on 16.4 acres
in an R-4 zone for Autumn Faire Crossing Subdivision by Autumn
Faire, LLC — south of West Ustick Road and west of North Black Cat
Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 11 has been requested to table to -- and as
Councilmember Bird had mentioned in his changes to the agenda, it didn't specify
when, so we can table it to the next meeting.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we table Item 11 to 8/3/04.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to table Item 11 to August 3rd, 2004.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 44 of 56
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 12: Tabled from July 20, 2004: FP 04-046 Request for Final Plat approval
for 72 single-family residential building lots and 15 common lots on 31.35
acres in an R-4 zone for Fulfer Subdivision No. 3 by Kevin Powell —
north of West McMillan Road and east of North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: Item 12 has also requested to table to August 24th.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we table Item 12 to August 24th, 2004.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to table Item 12 to August 24th, 2004. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 13: Tabled from July 20, 2004: FP 04-044 Request for Final Plat approval
for 5 commercial building lots on 2.88 acres in an L -O zone for Lynnwood
Plaza Subdivision by Busterback Development, LLC — north of West
Cherry Lane and east of North Ten Mile Road:
De Weerd: Item 13 has also requested to be tabled.
Canning: Madam Mayor, on the last item, I just -- it occurred to me this is a little
unusual. We are noticing that one as a Public Hearing, so I don't know if it's appropriate
to table it, if that's okay, because it's being renoticed as a Public Hearing or if there is
some other action we should take on that.
De Weerd: Item 12?
Canning: Fulfer.
De Weerd: It doesn't say it's a Public Hearing.
Rountree: But the request for table says it needs to come back as a Public Hearing.
Canning: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay. And it is being noticed for August 24th?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 45 of 56
Rountree: That's what the message said.
Berg: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, that's the request from an e-mail from
Sonya. I cannot tell you that that's what we are doing right at this moment.
De Weerd: Well, then, it needs one month in order to notice, so is August 24th
appropriate?
Bird: That gives you four Tuesdays.
De Weerd: Oh, is it --
Berg: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it could be done to meet the notification,
but is there an application that needs to be refiled that says that it's a new plat or --
Canning: The application has not changed, just the need for the Public Hearing. Would
you like some -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, would you like some
clarification on this?
De Weerd: Yes, since we just passed a motion to table it.
Canning: I'm sorry. I apologize. This is a bit of a confusing plat, because the ownership
of the preliminary plat changed hands on a portion of this. Mr. Howell has acquired
property from Mr. Goldsmith and is continuing to plat a phase of Lochsa. This is,
actually, a phase of Lochsa, but there was a change done in previous phases of the
subdivision which impact this one, so we have two separate ownerships now, so it's not
a huge substantial change, but it was enough of a change, particularly with the different
change in ownerships of the surrounding properties, that we felt it would be best to
notice it as a Public Hearing and I apologize for not bringing this up earlier, it just
occurred to me to --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: This states it's a request for final plat approval and we are going to final plat, why --
I mean the application is for a final plat approval, nothing about a Public Hearing; right?
Canning: Correct.
Bird: Well, for it to have a Public Hearing you have to have an application for a Public
Hearing, don't you?
De Weerd: I would defer that question to our attorney.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 46 of 56
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I'm somewhat complicit in this Public
Hearing element, because of discussions with Anna. It's one of those where there is a
change, it may not be a substantial change, but it's one of those where you just err on
the side of having the Public Hearing. That's the way we viewed it in talking with Anna.
It involves -- doesn't it involve the Moss parcel that was, you know, that existing house
that was in the middle that involved, you know, the -- and so it was -- and it also
involves loss of a common lot area, there is a change in some common lot, so there is
enough change here that even though it technically probably meets the requirements for
a final plat, it was just the kind of thing that was appropriate to bring before you in a
Public Hearing format and make sure that nobody who bought lots or optioned lots or
whatever nearby has an issue and so that's why we recommended that it be structured
as a Public Hearing, even though that may be a bit of an overkill, but it's just one of
those things where we were just trying to be careful so that we didn't get a problem in
front of you later.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: To follow up, Mr. Nichols, then, should
passed a motion to extend it to August 24th.
becomes a -- can we do that without stating
we make a new motion?
we take this off the agenda or -- we just
Do we have to state in the motion that it
that it needs to be a Public Hearing or do
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think I believe staff has the ability to
bring something up and say, look, this is important enough to make it a Public Hearing.
Now, you can override that, but -- and the Council clearly has its own -- authority on its
own motion to make something a Public Hearing. Moving it to the 24th, if that gives the
clerk's office sufficient time to do the noticing, then, even though you call it tabled, they
just simply provide the notice, they go out, it shows up on the agenda as a Public
Hearing, those people that are entitled to be notified have the notice. So, the question
would be whether the clerk's office can do it in time.
De Weerd: Mr. Clerk.
Berg: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the date of the 24th seems to meet the
requirements to get it noticed if we get the proper information to put into the notice and
provide information to the people in their notice that we mail out.
Canning: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: And, Anna, I guess I would also like you to address who is paying for this,
the noticing.
Canning: We did -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the first thing -- I did have
Sonya check with Tara on the timing and the 24th was doable. We have sent a couple
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 47 of 56
drafts of things already going back and forth on the wording for that hearing. I did
inform them that they would have to pay for the additional noticing costs. We have not
asked them to file a separate application, but it is -- we have informed them that they
will have to pay for the noticing costs.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, I guess I would ask that in the information we get we can get a
little bit more information. All we have is to table this and that a Public Hearing will need
to be held and no other information is available and I think that would be helpful. Okay.
Is -- okay. We have -- we are moving on. Item --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move that we table Item 13 to August 3rd, 2004.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It has been moved and seconded to table Item 13 to August 3rd,
2004. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 14: Public Hearing: Development Agreement for Lamont Kouba /
Robnett Construction:
De Weerd: Item 14 is a Public Hearing for a development agreement for Lamont Kouba
and Robnett Construction. I will open the Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, again, this is one that usually comes
to you on a Consent Agenda, but we have asked that it be a Public Hearing. Unlike the
Item No. 12, this one has a very detailed description why that's necessary. This
development agreement was initiated sometime ago, 1996, but is now being executed.
That's one of the reasons for bringing it forward to you in a Public Hearing process. The
other is to remove the requirement for -- that all the -- all the buildings on the parcel be
approved through the CU process. The Lamont Kouba Robnett development
agreement involves the Initial Point Subdivision as shown here south of Fairview
Avenue. You just saw the subdivision I believe last month. This is the outline of that
subdivision. Ultra Touch Car Wash is just to the north on the east side of that property
and, then, they have a street that comes down in between them. So, this is the subject
of this development agreement. All the proposed uses are office at this time, so staff
did look at taking away the CUP requirement, in addition to the fact that it had been a
long time since this development agreement was initiated and the Comprehensive Plan
that's referenced in that document is not the current plan, so that we felt it was important
to change that reference as well. Those are the three primary reasons we are bringing
it to you in this Public Hearing form. The big issue, though, is the -- what this
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 48 of 56
development agreement does do is it relegates 11 parking spaces on this property for
the use of Ultra Touch and that has been a concern of the Ultra Touch folks, it's been an
outstanding issue for quite some time, but we do have recorded easements in place and
the plat, it did reference that cross -access and use of those spaces as well. Staff is
satisfied that it meets the conditions of the original approval and is -- protects the 11
parking spaces arrangement as well.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Any further comment? Questions for staff? Is the
applicant here this evening? You probably looked at our agenda and thought, boy, it's
going to be a fast meeting.
Robnett: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council --
De Weerd: If you will, please, raise your right hand. It is a Public Hearing, so I need to
swear you in. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Robnett: Yes, I do
De Weerd: Thank you. If you will, please, state your name and address.
Robnett: My name is Mike Robnett. I reside at 655 Oakhampton, Eagle, Idaho
De Weerd: Thank you.
Robnett: I'm here tonight to represent Mr. Lamont Kouba on this development
agreement for Initial Point Subdivision. Lamont sold the front part to Ultra Touch Car
Wash years ago and, then, he got the back half rezoned, started this development
agreement with the city, and the use that he had intended did not go through and we
were not involved in any of that process up until about six months ago we became
involved with Mr. Kouba and we have put together this -- he still owns the ground and
we are working with him to get it through the city. One of the biggest issues was the 11
parking stalls and we do have a recorded easement that allows Ultra Touch Car Wash
11 parking stalls on the property, as well as the required public access through to the
property to the west. As far as the CUP goes, that was put on -- I believe it was a
snowmobile shop that was going in there prior and so it was put on the property due to
that and we are asking that that be lifted, because now we are just putting in an office
complex with six office buildings all similar uses. So, with that I would love to answer
any questions.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: No. Thank you.
Meridian Clty Council
July 27, 2004
Page 49 of 56
Robnett: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this application?
If you will please come forward. And if you will raise your right hand. Is the testimony
you are about to give the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you
God?
Bainbridge: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Bainbridge: Steve Bainbridge, 5317 North Brigadoon, Meridian. First of all, I want to
just say I almost missed my golf tee time tomorrow just because of the meeting. Okay.
Just real quick, the easement that Lamont Kouba recorded, I just want to make sure
that that recorded easement on July 8th of 2004 by Lamont meets all the necessary
requirements and complies with the Ultra Touch Conditional Use Permit and
development agreement set forth by the city. That's the only thing I have. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions, Council? Thank you. Is there any further testimony
on this application? Thank you. Council, any comments. Hearing none, do we have a
motion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing on Item 14.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 14. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Any --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the development agreement for Lamont Kouba, Robnett
Construction and to include all staff and public comments.
Wardle: Second.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 50 of 56
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve the development agreement on
Item 14. Is there any further discussion or clarification?
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, I think Mr. Bainbridge needs an answer to his question and I
believe, Anna, that Brad has reviewed the cross -access easement or parking easement
and approved that, has he not?
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, yes, he has and Mr. Bainbridge
called this afternoon and we talked to him briefly and Brad rechecked the easement and
is satisfied that from the city's standpoint it does meet all the conditions of approval for
Ultra Touch and for Initial Point.
De Weerd: And so, therefore, there are no changes needed to this agreement?
Canning: Correct.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Okay. Well, the motion in front of you is to approve Item
14. Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 15: Public Hearing: VAC 04-003 Request for a Vacation of utilities, drainage
and irrigation easement on the interior lot line of Lots 22 and 23 of
Packard Acres Subdivision No. 2 by Packard Estates Development,
LLC — south of East Ustick Road and east of North Locust Grove Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. I think that's affirmative; right? Okay. Item 15 is a Public
Hearing on VAC 04-003. 1 will open this Public Hearing with staff comments.
Watson: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Council Members. I have the pleasure of
presenting you probably the most mundane thing tonight, I hope. This is a vacation of
an existing public utilities drainage and irrigation easement along and interior side lot
line in Packard Acres Subdivision No. 2, Lots 22, 23. 1 signed a lot line adjustment I
think in May where they relocated that interior lot line. As part of that relocation they
need to vacate that ten -foot wide easement that was created with the original plat. We
only do that, so that there is no problems with the buildings being over the top of that.
That's about all there is to it. There is no known utilities within that easement. We don't
have any issues from any other utilities, so we recommend approval.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 51 of 56
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. It must be mundane, since there is no one here to testify,
probably except the applicant, but does the applicant have anything that he would like to
add? Okay. That was my comments. Okay. Council, there is no further testimony on
this item.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Hearing no further testimony, I move we close the Public Hearing.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close the Public Hearing on Item 14. All
those in favor say -- I'm sorry. Fifteen. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion
carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move we approve Item No. 15 VAC 04-003, vacation of utilities for Packard
Acres Subdivision No. 2.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 15. Is there any further
discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 17: Public Hearing: CUP 04-014 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development for modification of an existing CUP in an L -O zone
of Meadowlake Village Continuing Care Retirement Center (CCRC) by
Touchmark of the Treasure Valley, LLC — south of East Franklin Road and
east of North Eagle Road:
De Weerd: And we did save the best for last. Item 17 is a Public Hearing on CUP 04-
014. 1 will open the Public Hearing with staff comments.
Canning: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is a request for a Conditional Use
Permit for the planned development that is known as Touchmark and I'll get into the
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 52 of 56
details of this. Its located in the center of the project, which we don't have a plat yet, so
the full boundary of the project always shows up, but its going to be right here, right in
the center or the heart of the project and this project is -- it's called the Continuing Care
Retirement Center and the lingo is CCRC. They very rarely refer to it in the full. So, if
they slip into that acronym you will know what's going on. And as you can see, it is
shown on the original concept plan, that octopus looking thing in the middle of the
project. This was the original phase one Conditional Use Permit with the houses that
are being constructed currently in this area. This was shown on the original phase.
They are coming in now. And this is the proposed Continuing Care Retirement Center
and it's in all phases of it. So, this is at full development. This is -- the road rings
around it here. It consists of a lodge at the center of it, which basically is the community
meeting rooms and various services and, then, you have senior apartments on wings off
of it in these areas and, then, assisted living facilities to the south of the lodge in these
areas here. The assisted living facilities, they are -- the first phase will just take one
wing and that will be 34 -units and the first phase will include two apartment buildings.
You can see it best in the landscape plan. They have just shown phase one in this
landscape plan, so it's got the two apartment buildings, which have approximately 60 to
70 living units. They haven't tied down the floor plan yet, so they are asking for a range
of units. This is consistent with the concept plan approval, had a range on those as
well. The square footage of that is about 25,000 to 30,000 square foot for the lodge and
the commons building. The phase two would add the other two buildings that are
currently shown -- not shown here and the other assisted living facility here. The
Planning and Zoning Commission had a hearing on, let's see, July 1st, 2004. It was
approved with the conditions in the staff report. It was actually kind of a resounding
approval even. They had quite a few positive comments about it. Oh, which I should
show you. This is the elevations of the project. This is the lodge with the clock tower.
These are the assisted living facility elevations, so this would be down at the south.
And, then, these are the senior apartment elevations. They are quite attractive, even
more attractive than it looks like right on these slides. You will notice that they do have
a fairly steep pitched roof, which was a topic of discussion. They do meet the planning -
- the zoning code definition for -- they meet the height limit, but the IVC definition is
measured a little differently and they may exceed that, so we just wanted to get it clear
at the Planning and Zoning Commission that that was a potential issue, although they
didn't -- we didn't see it as a planning issue necessarily, but we did want to make sure
that it was discussed as a possible exception to the code with the planned development.
At the Public Hearing for the Planning and Zoning Commission Joseph Bullock from
Touchmark testified in favor of the application. He is now in the Dakotas, I believe, and
so we have a new representative here today and I forgot to look at his card before I
came. His first name, I believe, is Mark and he will have to introduce himself, but he is
the new representative for Touchmark. There was no other testimony given by the
public and the key discussion items were the building height, as I mentioned before, the
fire lanes and the parking, and I'll talk about the fire lanes just a little bit. The fire
department does have access to the perimeter of the site and, then, these roads here --
you will see it looks solid there and, then, it looks a little less solid, it becomes too strips
of concrete, rather than a solid concrete. They still can drive on those and so these kind
of provide the internal access points to all the points of the building. These may need to
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 53 of 56
swing in a little bit closer to some of those buildings, like in this case it may need to
swing just a little bit closer, but staff felt that that could be accomplished without a major
redesign, that it was just kind of a tweak with the existing pattern, so -- but it was
brought up as an issue. And, then, there was quite a bit of discussion about the
parking. The apartment units do have parking underneath. They have provided about
1.25 parking spaces per unit. Our code does not deal with senior facilities really well.
The only kind of -- one that it has is for assisted living facilities or care facilities, assisted
care facilities, and that's one per five beds. So, it doesn't really fit for any of this. So,
there was just quite a bit of discussion at the Planning and Zoning Commission about
whether 1.25 would be an appropriate standard for the apartments and I think that the
end recognition was that that was a suitable standard and, then, for the assisted care
facilities they actually seemed to have more -- they have more than one point -- they
have more than one per five beds by a long shot and I think they -- so, they seem to
have sufficient parking. So, there was no changes made to the original staff
recommendations by the Planning and Zoning Commission and there would appear to
be no outstanding issues before Council.
De Weerd: Thank you, Anna. Is there any questions for staff?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Would the applicant like to provide testimony? It is a Public Hearing, so I will
need to swear you in. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth,
and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mitchell: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Mitchell: My name is Mark Mitchell. I spent two hours with Anna on Monday. That's all
right. We are new acquaintances anyway. I really don't have an awful lot to add to
what Anna has said. We do strictly plan on complying with the recommendations the
Planning and Zoning has made and I will simply open it up if you folks have some
specific questions or need for further classification from us in regards to those
recommendations.
De Weerd: Thank you. I can add that you have such a quality development out there,
you know, these are just such a privilege to see them come through. What a nice,
attractive amenity to our community.
Mitchell: Thank you.
De Weerd: Councilman Bird, did you have anything?
Bird: I have nothing. Thank you.
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 54 of 56
De Weerd: Anything?
Rountree: I just had a -- I had a question. The roads in the facility in this and the
surrounding area, are those public roads or are they going to be private roads?
Mitchell: They are public roads that come off of Franklin into the second roundabout,
which is --
Canning: Mark, there is a --
De Weerd: There is a pointer -- a laser pointer --
Rountree: I don't need any more specifics than that. It's a combination.
Mitchell: Some public and a lot of private.
Rountree: Okay. That's all I needed.
De Weerd: It's public up to the second roundabout and, then, it's private; correct?
Mitchell: That is correct.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any further questions? We are glad you lasted this out.
Mitchell: I was really interested in the golf course discussion. I used to live --
Bird: You're part of the golf cart.
Mitchell: Down the street from Keith's son, so -- I have moved from there lately, but I am
appreciative of your comments about the care of the golf course. Being a golfer, it's
nice to know that we know the safety aspect of the people crossing the course is being
considered. Etiquette for two hours this evening. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: And just a quick comment about Meadow Lake and -- it's a great development
and just a comment on the golf course. My four year old son and I appreciate that your
course is open to the public currently and so we enjoy that little course.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council?
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 55 of 56
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we close the Public Hearing on Item 17.
Rountree: I'll second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close Item 17. All those in favor say aye.
All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Madam Mayor:
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve CUP 04-014, and include all staff and applicant
comments.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 17. Is there any further
discussion? Hearing none, Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, absent.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Thank you. Mr. Mills, we are so glad you joined us. We saved this meeting
just for you. I would --
Mills: And I don't even play golf.
Bird: And he doesn't even play golf.
Rountree: Maybe now you will take it up.
Bird: You can take it up.
De Weerd: Council, I guess I do have one thing I would like to note is we are going to
have someone from the Southwest Idaho RC&D, which means the Resource
Conversation and Development Council, to come and talk to us at a future pre -Council
meeting. I did want to let you know that they did award 17,000 dollars for the roof to the
senior center out of their funds and so I just thought you might have an interest in
Meridian City Council
July 27, 2004
Page 56 of 56
knowing that. This was for the roof. But they did let us know that, so wanted to pass
that information on to you and did invite them to come and tell us a little bit more about
themselves. He said that they are the best kept secret.
Bird: And who is it?
De Weerd: It is the Southwest Idaho Resource Conservation and Development Council
and they promote cooperation between public, private sectors and natural resource
management, conversation, and human resource development in rural areas.
Bird: Madam Mayor, where are they based out of?
De Weerd: Their address is in Meridian, Idaho.
Bird: We didn't even know it was here.
De Weerd: Just an FYI and I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Thank you.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:20 P.M.
T THESE PROCEEDINGS)
lo�P��
MAYO DE WEERD DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
G. BERG, JR,
'i,It IIIIII
of
rrprrr rh
SEAL