HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 05-25 PreCITY OF MERIDIAN
PRE -COUNCIL MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, May 25, 2004 at 6:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve
3. Discussion of Area of City Impact: Discussed / Come back July 6,
2004
4. Sewer Service Discussion by Ralph Perez of Briarwood Corporation:
Discussed
*Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change depending on
discussion. Please use the designated minutes as a guideline only.
Meridian City Pre -Council Agenda — May 25, 2004 Page 1 of 1
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting Mav 25.2004
The Meridian City Pre -Council meeting was called to order at 6:10 P.M. on
Tuesday, March 9, 2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Bill Nary, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle
and Charlie Rountree.
Others Present: Gary Smith, Shari Stiles, Brad Watson, Bill Nichols, Mike
Worley, William Musser, Dean Willis and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Bill Nary X Keith Bird
X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Rountree: I move we adopt the agenda for the May 25`h pre -council meeting.
Bird: Second.
Nary: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the pre -council agenda as
presented. All those in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3. Discussion of Area of City Impact:
De Weerd: I will introduce this. I believe that you received kind of a taped
together map of the area north of Chinden between Linder and the map of Locust
Grove. Did they not --? Oh, it's on your computers. Here, you can look at mine.
It's a very nice picture. I had some of the property owners approach me last
week and since we do have this — some of this area in front of the Ada County
and asking for it to be part of the area of impact, I did ask the property owners to
come here tonight and share with you what they had conveyed to me. So, I will
turn this over — I don't know who wants to be the spokesperson, Mr. Calhan?
Carnahan: I do have some handouts.
(Inaudible discussion)
Carnahan: Madame Mayor, members of the Council, I appreciate the opportunity
to make some comments on this area of impact discussion. My name is Doug
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 2 of 21
Carnahan. I live at 4410 West Chinden Boulevard. Myself and several of my
neighboring property owners are here tonight to talk about some of the proposals
that have been made by several cities. We have a specific request that we
would like to make. First of all, in running through those pages that I provided
you with the person that is not here on the list is Drew Aigers. He is in accord
with what we are going to propose tonight and ask us to represent his position,
but Jaq Huitt, Leroy Brandt as you can see on your slide there in the audience.
We own property that's bounded by Chinden and the Phyllis canal and the other
way east west from Linder over to Black Cat. We actually own some properties
on the other side of Chinden as well, but we really haven't wanted to address
those tonight because we think those are being taken care of in other
discussions. If I could move you to the second page, this will show the property
that we own. Let me start to the left. The Aigers family owns that in the yellow,
which actually does straddle Black Cat, but approximately 160 acres. The
property to the green is property that myself and my wife own and we have a
nursery that's in operation on that property. Moving further east in the blue —
Rountree: Excuse me.
Carnahan: Yes.
Rountree: How big is that property?
Carnahan: Our property is 220 acres.
Rountree: Thank you.
Carnahan: The property in the blue includes the Spur Wing Golf and Country
Club and that property is owned by the Huitt family and leased to the Country
Club and in fact, Jaq Huitt has developed a fair amount as you can see there a
number of lots in that blue parcel and Jaq I am — you have probably what 250
acres in there?
Huitt: (Inaudible discussion)
Carnahan: And then Leroy Brandt who is with us has about 50 acres and that's
shown in the purple. So, on the next slide, basically gets to the point of why we
are here. We would like to participate in this area of impact discussion. We have
read about different proposals in the papers and all that and thought we would
take the initiative and go forward and make some — a specific request. At the
same time, we have — we are at different stages of development on these
parcels; like for example, Jaq Huitt has already developed a subdivision in the
Spur Wing area, but others of us are working with architects and coming up with
proposals and we just want to make sure that we are working with the right
municipality. So, I could, if you would like me too, make a few comments about
what our plans are for each of those specific colored areas, or at least our earlier
thinking if you'd find that useful at this point. Would that be helpful?
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 3 of 21
Nary: Sure, that would be fine.
Carnahan: Okay. Well, if I can take you back to the colored map. The Aigers
family in the yellow, they are probably the furthest out in development planning.
They think in about over — probably in about the ten-year timeframe, they want to
be doing construction. Their interested in doing low-density residential out in the
rim and then as you move closer to Chinden, probably a little bit higher density
residential; when I say low-density I am thinking like one acre lots and higher
density is maybe four -quarter -acre lots, something like that. Then selectively
commercial may be around the corners or as fits the rest of the development.
Our plans in the green are to, basically do something similar. We are going to
take up kind of a golf course theme, but we could see single-family, low density
lots out on the rim; more higher density as you move towards Chinden and then
maybe some selective commercial. We do have an office for our nursery in that
along Chinden as we (inaudible) today. Jaq, I don't know if you wanted to
comment about your plans.
Huitt: Inaudible.
Carnahan: Basically, Jaq has developed a lot of the property already. He does
have a plan to build some condominiums and some patio homes towards
Chinden and you can see an area that is kind of looks like a little gray line and
that's the — his proposal, he's held up because sewers aren't available as of this
time. So, that's what he is waiting for, but he is ready to go. Leroy Brandt in the
purple property has active dialogue with people that are interested in that
property and his thoughts are a mix of residential and some commercial
selectively near the comers. So, back to our priorities; sewers. Availability of
services to that area. We want to be included early in the area of impact and this
decision-making process. We are concerned that all this — I will call it difference
of opinion as to who's, what cities area of impact we should be in is going to
really slowdown the process and this could be contentious and we would like to
get beyond that, have it decided and move forward. Then the last thing that's a
priority for us, we do — we are interested in not just putting five acres lots out
there. We are interested in mixed use. Like I said, low to medium density
residential and light commercial. So, our last page in our request is real
straightforward. We think the property that I have shown on the map there that's
founded by the Phyllis Canal on north, Chinden on the south, Black Cat on the
west end and Linder on the east end. We think that should be in the Meridian
area of impact. We also — it's obvious we think you are in the best place to serve
those properties. We own properties outside of those bounds and then maybe,
for example, Spur Wing Country Club would be if the dividing line was the Phyllis
Canal, Spur Wing would be in two different areas of impact and you may want to
modify the line to accommodate some of those developments already in place.
We certainly are open to discussion, but we do believe Meridian is the correct
city to have that in their area of impact. We would like the area to be served with
services and we would like some support for all what I call mixed-use
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 4 of 21
development as opposed to just being all five -acre lots. So, that's the request.
We are open for questions or thoughts or comments. We would appreciate some
feedback. Did I run out of time?
Nary: Council, do you have questions for Mr. Carnahan?
Bird: Mr. President, I got one question.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Huitt might have to answer this. What you are saying is the existing
houses and stuff at Spur Wing is wanting to come into the city limits of Meridian?
Carnahan: What — I think they are talking area of impact.
Bird: Area of impact. Just the area of impact?
(Inaudible discussion)
Nary: You probably need to come up here, sir.
(Inaudible discussion)
Nary: Sir, I need you to be on the microphone. That's all right.
Huitt: Excuse me. I haven't canvassed the homeowner's within the Club. I have
an additional 19 -acre parcel that I want to do high density residential and so my
interest is from that standpoint there. As far as the owners there, they all have —
of course we all Meridian addresses in that part of the Valley, but we haven't
canvassed the individual owners yet to see if they would want to be in Meridian's
area of impact or not, which would ultimately be within the City of Meridian.
Bird: Mr. Huitt, let me ask you and this is probably a dumb question, but in your
blue area here, isn't the Spur Wing Golf Course included in that?
Huitt: Yes, if you see the section of lots where it says Volada Court?
Bird: Affirmative.
Huitt: Okay, then just below that there is kind of a thin gray line that goes down.
It's almost sort of shaped like a bow tie, right there. That would be the area,
which would be developed.
Bird: Okay.
Huitt: Then that would be — that would complete the development for residential
at Spur Wing.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 5 of 21
Bird: That's the one there along (inaudible) the north?
Huitt: Yeah, one, two and three. It's just to the right of the first, second and third
hole.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I had a question for Mr. Camahan. You had indicated that the Aigers
property was looking somewhere around ten years out for construction
speculation on your parcel?
Carnahan: We are thinking probably two to ten years we would like to see
construction in that type of timeframe. We have already made commitments to
take a lot of the growing from that nursery and move that to other locations and
so that's commitment is taking place as we speak, so, or the move is taking
place, so we think we could be moving dirt over the next two to three years, but it
would take some time to develop 220 acres.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: I believe, Mr. Huitt had mentioned 2008 for your project?
Huitt: Yeah, right now when we did our development under the non-farm, this
remaining section has to be in open spaces until 2008. The demand is there as
far as what we have. We have a list of a number of people and as soon as we
are ready to go, you know — so, it's a very high demand, which would be high in
single-family patio homes and those kinds of things.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nary: Council, any other questions or directions to staff? Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mr. President and Mr. Carnahan. Recognizing that currently this area
is in the City of — or at least mostly in the City of Eagle's area of impact, I believe.
Is it not? It's all of this?
De Weerd: Their request is —
Rountree: So, they are a two lender then?
De Weerd: They are a two lender.
Rountree: Okay.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 6 of 21
Carnahan: Yeah, this is all in the county now and Eagle has made a request to
include it in their area of impact.
Bird: It's nobody's impact now?
Carnahan: Correct. That's my understanding
Nary: Madame Mayor. Oh, is Mr. Rountree done?
Rountree: I am confused on that issue because I thought Chinden was the line
of demarcation and that that was on a map somewhere.
De Weerd: I have a map in my office if you'd like me to share it with you. They
are asking to extend their area of impact from Linder to Black Cat, clear —
Rountree: North of Chinden?
De Weerd: Yes, north of Chinden and then it would kind of squiggle over to
Highway 16, north of the river.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: It is the recommendation of the Ada County planning staff that this
area not be included at this time. So, that's where the Ada County planning
staffs recommendation is.
Rountree: Not being included with the City of Eagle's?
De Weerd: In the City of Eagle's? Or the City of Stars. The City of Star is
looking for the area to Black Cat, so they would go to Black Cat and then Eagle is
asking (inaudible) from Black Cat to Linder.
Rountree: Okay. All right.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess in talking with our Public Work's staff. They are in the
process since there is — there will be annexation routes to this so they will be
contiguous. They are looking at kind of doing a master plan and if I am wrong,
please tell me — no, really don't.
(Laughter).
De Weerd: -- but they are looking — there is the south east comer of Ten Mile
and Chinden that's being explored and some other property around there. So, if
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 7 of 21
the Council would like to have this area included in some of the master planning
for that area, now would be the best time to master plan it. Is that correct? You
can say no.
Nary: That sounds like a (inaudible) to you, Mr. Watson.
Watson: Thank you, Mr. President, Madame Mayor, Council members. The
south east corner of Ten Mile and Chinden there are at least one developer who
is trying to pursue coming in with a development application and — well, I will
spare you the details. It's not in the right sewer area and they want to pump back
to the other service area. I told them that in order to do that there was another
project that was withdrawn about a year ago that they would have to coordinate
with. When I was telling you about master planning, it was a fairly fine -eyed little
area no more than probably 60 acres on that comer and we didn't anticipate
actually having JUB or somebody like that do a master plan. I was just
anticipating having staff coordinate between the two developers and, I think, one
other parcel that hasn't shown any interest in developing, yet. So, the scope of
what I was intending to do on that corner was fairly limited.
De Weerd: But, it could get bigger.
Watson: With your direction, it certainly could get bigger.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Mr. President in the discussions that we have had about area of impact
and certainly these things have been spurred by the City of Eagle and the City of
Star. From what I have heard the Council and the Mayor say is we would like to
hear from the property owners and the neighbors and see what they would like to
do. We have had some discussion about whether we can service that area and
staff gave us a presentation several weeks ago as to that we would need to do a
study to further see that happen, but if I remember Brad saying "could be
possible" was not definitive, but could be possible. So, what I am hearing tonight
is that the property owners and the neighbors would like to come in and from my
just brief description that I heard tonight from Mr. Carnahan, would like not only
to do just five -acre parcels, but some of the things that I heard fit into the
comprehensive plan for some of the things that we are seeing in north Meridian
that we have promoting and so, certainly — I am not sure the right direction as to
where to go or how to pursue this, but it appears to me that this could be a fit for
the City of Meridian given some of the things that I have heard about Ada County
and they have recommended taking that out of some of the other areas of
impact. I think it certainly warrants further discussion and the other thing that I
would like to say is the neighbors are not coming in with a specific application
requesting services tomorrow; they would like to know what our timeline is
because I don't think we — or I know we don't have a definitive timeline to give
them right now for service ability, but they are asking not just for sewer services,
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 8 of 21
but entire city services and would like to be part of our community as a whole.
So, I will put that out for discussion.
Nary: Mr. Carnahan one of the things that I noted in your presentation is that you
said you wanted to — you and the other property owners want to be involved in
the decision-making process and make sure you are talking to the right people
and why, so have you done this presentation to the County?
Carnahan: No.
Nary: Okay. Have you talked to either the City's of Eagle or Star?
Carnahan: Yes, we attended a meeting that was held by the City of Eagle for
planning discussion, but when we attended that a lot of work had been done, but
the people up on the bench where we live, to be honest, hadn't been included in
most of that planning and so it was kind of they acknowledged that yeah we are
kind of late and that was their fault, but we did attend and we provided and raised
the question what about services? Their comment back was that services like
sewers for example, could be handled on multi -agency agreements and that the
political boundaries didn't need to match the sewer boundaries. Maybe there is
some good way to have a city fund sewer systems and all that kind of stuff and
get returns, financial returns from extending it into other city's areas of impacts or
other cities it just seems surprising to me that that would work.
Rountree: Good deduction.
(Laughter).
De Weerd: We are trying to be polite.
Carnahan: Yeah, I was too. I don't know whether I was or not.
Bird: We don't really want to tell you what we think.
Nary: Well, Council I think this is a very good presentation by these property
owners. What would you suggest they do? I think at this juncture —just to sort of
recap where we have been, I think at this point we had recommended or had
commented to the County to study this area thoroughly to make that assessment,
essentially as these property owner's have asked as to where is the most
appropriate area of impact, if any, this property should be in. Obviously, before
we could commit further resources of the City we would have to make that
decision as well as to whether or not we wanted the Public Works Department to
do further study and further modeling to sort of carry out this possibility as to
whether or not it is feasible for the City of Meridian to serve this area at some
point in the future and whether it makes the most sense to us to, instead of
advocating a somewhat neutral position to the County we are really advocating
more with you that this area should become part of the Meridian area of impact.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 9 of 21
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I will give you my opinion. I feel that this is an ideal area of impact for us. I
feel we can service it if we have to go to lift stations. Everybody else around
here does the service things. This isn't something that they are going to want to
start developing tomorrow. It's something that's down the road and I will certainly
welcome this into our impact area and I think it's the most logical to be in our
impact area. That's my opinion and I would help to do anything we could to get
(inaudible) anything back there.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I am not going to offer my opinion, but it is so nice to have folks come
to Meridian and want to be part of our community. I think we ought to put a hand
out to these folks and take a look at this request and look at the feasibility and be
genuine and upfront with you and let you know what our timeline is, what our
potential costs are, what kind of partnering we might want to do with new
landowners and see if this realistically can happen. I agree with Keith that this
certainly would be an ideal northern boundary for the City of Meridian and it's
consistent with the Fire District and the Recreation District that surrounds us as
well and the library district and a lot of things that are within that boundary.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Mr. President. I would also agree with comments and as far as from an
action step, I think we need to see some costs from Public Works as far as what
a study would look like, so that we can make good decisions on how to proceed,
but in the interim process, I think to note that this is not a pressure being driven
necessarily upon the City of Meridian by our municipality, but is affecting some of
those municipalities around us. I think it would be good to bring the property
owners because they have obviously organized and come up with a plan and to
have them also contact the County and at least make sort of either a
presentation or a written form and to certainly at this point support at least a
delayed decision on this area from the County so that, again they are
recommending this again at this point, I think it would be — we have already
submitted that we should, I think that it would bring these property owners in to
recommend that a decision be held off until we have all the answers would be
appropriate at this time.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 10 of 21
De Weerd: I would agree we do have a hearing on Thursday and I think it would
be appropriate for you know — the Eagle area of impact will go to Black Cat and if
the Aigers would like some of this as a part of that discussion, I could also attend
and provide testimony, again to remove this area from the applications until
further information can be sought and if the property owners don't mind then I
would share that we have been approached by the property owners for the
majority share between Linder and for that area of impact in question to come
into Meridian and we likely have already stated in testimony would like to know
who can best service that area in the least amount of time and the least amount
of price to the property owners and that has been our statement to them and I
think it's fair to continue that. I believe that Meridian would be the first to be able
to service that and Eagle's comments are exactly them thinking we would service
it through contract through them and if we are going to provide services it makes
more sense that we would provide all the services and it would be part of our
City.
Nary: It's very typical when politicians say we are not going to give you an
opinion and it sounds an awful lot like an opinion.
De Weerd: I already told them my opinion.
Nary: I guess I looked at it as a couple of steps. Obviously, there are some
short windows that we need to address and I think Madame Mayor suggestion of
participating in the next meeting on this — both for you folks as well as for us to
be a participant in that discussion. I leave it to the Mayor's discretion on having
the same discussion prior to the meeting with the mayor of Eagle. You know,
what we are not giving an opinion is really waving into an issue to this point that
we have taken a fairly neutral position about and I agree with the rest of the
Council members. I think it does make sense that this area — Chinden has been
this artificial line for no reason and it's just a road that happens to be there. It's
not because it made any particular sense of planning ownership, long-range
objectives, and sewer ability. It's just a road and that's it and as we have found
over the years, the roads themselves aren't laid out in some definitive way to
determine which part should be in which city and we have had to address that. I
don't look at the road as a barrier. I think there is some practical sense. I agree
with the Mayor that it doesn't make sense for the City to extend services across
the street from the City to provide service to an area and then have that area be
in another city. It just doesn't make that much sense for us. So, I think that
being said, we probably need to consider in fairly short order some other things
from the staff level as to what would be the cost of doing some analysis to make
that if we are going to make an application or we are going to participate in the
discussion stronger than we have been from the City that this should be in our
area of impact we probably are going to have to understand for all of us what's
that going to take. What's the process for us? How does that impact all of you?
What roles should you folks play and again what's the impact and cost to the
residents for us to do that? So, I think we are going to have to sort of keep that
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 11 of 21
on our radar. I don't necessarily think we have to make those decisions tonight,
but I think we are going to have to go down that road fairly soon if that's what we
want to do. Unless someone else tells me I am off on my thoughts, I think that's
how we are going to get there. In the short run, I think the Mayor's suggestion is
probably in the immediacy is probably the best way to go. You can have the last
word.
Carnahan: Okay. Well, just to bring clarity to something for my benefit and
maybe your benefit as well. On the issue of you being able to state that you
have been approached by the property owners and they want to be part of
Meridian, the answer is we support that. You can say that publicly or there is no
problem with that issue. So, that's clear. If you would like us to talk to the Mayor
of Eagle and explain our position — that's — we are willing to do that if you
consider that and just — we are willing to do that if you would like us to participate
in the County discussions and have us make a similar presentation we are willing
to do that.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I think it's more appropriate that I talk to the Mayor of Eagle and talk
to her about what happened at the meeting tonight and — but, I do think it is
appropriate that you do provide testimony at the County meetings and state your
interest. I guess what I would like to also ask is Council to give some direction to
staff on maybe what the steps necessary would be and give them an idea of
when we would like to hear back on those next steps.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Wardle: Brad, what — when do you think it would be possible to give us just a
brief outline of what steps it would take to make — to give the Council and the
Mayor enough (inaudible) to make a decision?
Watson: Councilman Wardle I would undoubtedly speak with JUB on this issue.
It's going to take a little bit more time than it ordinarily would because of what we
have their people working on right now; it's the Black Cat project that we are right
in the middle of — the most intense part of the design. Complicating that is that
we have issued an RFP for the wastewater plant design where we will be
interviewing them and they will be preparing for interviews. All that said, three to
four weeks, probably four would be ideal to get with them, look at what a
proposal would be, look at what the cost for proposal to study this area would be
and bring it back to you.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 12 of 21
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I guess just to be clear the first step would be to talk to them about
doing really a feasibility study. Is that kind of what we are talking about? A
sewer feasibility study? Is that --?
Watson: Right. Councilman Wardle what we would probably do is ask them for
a proposal that's broken into several phases. The first part would be the mere
feasibility of it. Second would be maybe a little more detailed analysis of what
the layout might be, along with that would be cost. So, it would be a phased
approach, probably at each point we would come back to you with a no go, go no
go request from Council.
Wardle: Mr. President. So, Brad in say four weeks we could have a pretty good
idea of maybe timelines and cost? Is that --?
Watson: Yes, I believe we can.
Wardle: So, would July 6t" give you enough time?
Watson: Yes, I think that would be great. Thank you.
Nary: Council is everyone comfortable with that if we ask Mr. Watson — Ms.
Powell is not here right now, but I think we will probably want some input from the
planning staff as well as to the same issues; feasibility, what the process would
be from the City's perspective. I think we are going to do some other things in
the meantime, but July 6t' if Council is all right with that.
Rountree: Fine with me.
Nary: Is that going to work, Mr. Watson?
Watson: Yes, it will thank you.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: Just to clarify for the property owners, staff will come back July 6th
detailing the next steps for what we need to do to plan for this area and see the
feasibility and sewer -ability. Is that correct?
Affirmative.
De Weerd: Okay.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 13 of 21
Carnahan: Great. Thank you for your consideration.
De Weerd: So, if you'd like to join us then, we would certainly welcome you.
Carnahan: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I think that somewhat hinges on what happens this week with the
County as well.
De Weerd: This week is just — no. It's this Thursday night, the 27th and this will
be just Star's and there is only part of the Aigers property in the Star area.
Rountree: Okay.
De Weerd: I don't know when the public hearings are for Eagle, in fact, one of
you might need to attend with that (inaudible) when I am out of town. Thank you.
Carnahan: June 1st?
De Weerd: June 1st I will be in town. We will join then on June 1st.
Item 4. Sewer Service Discussion by Ralph Perez of Briarwood
Corporation:
Nary: If you recall, this is from a couple of weeks ago. Mr. Perez is here and if I
recall correctly and maybe somebody remembers this better. I think Mr. Perez
did make his presentation about this area north of Chinden as well off of Meridian
Road area and I think we basically said come back in a couple of weeks while we
think about it. So, I don't recall we gave any other direction than that, so if we did
I don't recall. Did we give you more direction? I didn't think we did. I think we
said we'd think about it and —
Perez: Mr. President, Madame Mayor first of all let me just say thank you for
allowing us to come back again. I am glad I got to hear the last testimony, but
probably would be more confident if I was up first tonight than second. I think
there is obviously some overlapping issues there. As I understand it, I was to
come back in two weeks with trying to get some more details. The Mayor had
asked me to write her a letter, spelling out a little bit in more detail what I am
proposing. I did attempt to get a hold of the Mayor to ask a couple of questions,
but I know the schedule is been real busy and it came right down to the end here,
so I didn't get you that letter, but I did provide to the Council and the Mayor a
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 14 of 21
copy of the agreement that the Eagle Sewer District has with the City of Boise
and since I am not an expert in how this is actually going to work out when you
ask me for more detail, I am thinking okay, I have got to go get that detail from
somewhere else because I don't have that information myself, so that agreement
I think had a lot of the information that will be helpful in it. Also, I did — we did
meet with JUB Engineering in order to get a proposal from them that would give
us an idea of the costs involved in doing the study to determine whether or not
it's feasible for you to service this area. I believe you have a copy of that
proposal from JUB as well. Can I add that in lieu of the previous conversation
that you just had with the area north of Chinden, it seems clear that in general
you are not inclined to provide services unless, you know, it is your area and you
are going to be providing all the services. I would like to point out the differences
between what we are proposing and the issues that are west of Linder. First of
all the Linley family and the properties that we are discussing here are already in
Eagle's area of impact. If not, we would have been standing right here with these
other folks tonight, suggesting the same thing. I am sure the Linley's — you know
they have been trying to develop their property now for many, many years and
wish they would have been able to have the opportunity not to be in the Eagle's
area of impact today if they had that option. So, we understand why the other
folks are trying to get a head of the curve here, they don't want to be in the same
boat that we are in currently. The other issue is that the City of Eagle provides
no services for sewer. It's the Eagle Sewer District that provides these services.
The Eagle Sewer District does not go west of Linder Road. The area that you
are discussing with these property owners does not fall within their area of impact
or even in their future planning area. It goes to Linder, drops off the bench, pretty
much goes along the boundaries, I believe, of the area — if I could see the map I
was seeing here pretty well skirts around the north of it. So they are not even in
this area. Maybe that's a point for discussion that in an agreement that we
drafted, perhaps there could be some agreement that they would not requested
to expand their area into that area. That's something that could be open for
negotiation. So having said that the proposal that we got from JUB to determine
whether or not you had any additional capacity in the north slew trunk line, I
believe Brad is it — or is that what we are asking for in Linder Road -- there is two
proposed ways to do it, but either way the cost is a little over $9,000, close to
$10,000 1 believe, which is a cost that — a little over $9,000 is a cost that we, the
undeveloped property owners in this affected area are willing to pay to determine
whether or not you have that capacity. It would be either way we would have to
have a lift station to pump it across Chinden either near Meridian Road or at
Linder Road depending on which of the two ways we would end up having to
sewer it. So, politically I know we are in kind of a strange quagmire here. I was
hoping not to have to be in that, but I saw it coming. Again, I think there are
significant differences that would not affect your negotiations with the County. I
believe that it makes perfect sense that the area — in fact I think that this is a fine
example of why the area north of Chinden, west of Linder Road should be in
Meridian's area of impact. It's obvious that the City of Eagle is not in a position to
provide the services, the environmental services that are going to be required to
service that area, nor has there been any plans to even address, providing that
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 15 of 21
they don't have the district that doesn't go out there, they don't have the planning
in place for future ability to service that area. So, the only hope that Meridian
would have to service that area is if they came to you and — the City of Eagle,
excuse me — and had an agreement directly with you to service their City in that
area. This is a completely different issue. This is the Sewer District asking you
to provide sewer treatment for their current area. I hope that's a significant
enough difference and maybe we can be helpful in your negotiation and we
would be more than happy to testify as to the problems that we have had in trying
to develop in this area because we are in fact in an area that does not have
services.
Nary: Council, is there questions or comments for Mr. Perez? I guess my
comment is that, you know, I agree with you I think it is different. I mean the
situation with the other areas that are served by the City of Boise is really just
essentially selling a commodity. They are selling space in the sewer treatment
plant. They are not extending service. They don't extend lines. They don't
extend anything. All they do is they allow someone outside the City limits to hook
a line — hook their line up to the City sewer line. They meter that line. They
basically — they count the billing from that meter and they just bill for the services.
They are just selling capacity and that is different from what the other
homeowners are asking. I think based on the comment of the prior property
owner, that's essentially what it sounds like Eagle was telling them if they
(inaudible). I wasn't there, but it sounds from his testimony that's what they were
telling them is you can be in our area of impact, just like the area you are
representing here and you can go essentially pay for capacity in the Meridian
Wastewater Treatment Plant and go get sewer service that way and we don't
have to provide it to you. So, I agree with you. I think it is different. I think the
issue before the Council here is do we want to get into that business and if we
do, what's that going to take? We didn't — we specifically didn't ask Mr. Watson
to tell us that in two weeks, so I think we need to know, Council, do you want to
do that? I think the last comment I recall at the last meeting was we are already
working to serve our area of impact now; do we want to get into the business of
doing this at the same time? That's, I guess the group's decision. Madame
Mayor you look anxious to make a —
De Weerd: No.
Rountree: You just look anxious. Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I think you stated it quite well in what Meridian is undertaking and has
planned to do over the last number of years, not just recently; but we have
planned to accommodate our area of impact. We have sized our package plan
accordingly and as you heard earlier, we have yet another RFP out for an
additional improvement and expansion of that facility and we also have additional
folks who want to become part of the City of Meridian; if that happens we have to
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 16 of 21
figure out how to accommodate them. I am not — I was going to say
uninterested, but that's not true I am interested in the plight of the folks that you
are representing and yourself, but I am not sure that I am ready to have the City
of Meridian become a merchant of capacity within our Wastewater Treatment
facility.
Perez: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Perez.
Perez: Thank you. I understand that. I guess I would just state that the nature
of this agreement is very limited. You are under no obligation to enter into any
other agreements of this kind. It's a very specific area and it's a very low density
of houses. We are looking at 300 to 350 homes; that's not a lot of capacity, but it
would mean a big difference to the Linley's and if they have an opportunity, Mr.
Linley would like to say something this evening if — I know we are running late
here. I guess what we are asking is obviously what we need in order to even
proceed to determine whether you have got the capacity is the authorization from
the Council to allow JUB to use your 2003 modeling information to accomplish
our study. So, that's what we are asking for here this evening and I will just leave
it at that if I may unless there are other questions and if Mr. Linley could say
something.
Nary: Just one more thing —
(Turn tape over)
Nary: I guess I don't have as big an opposition to your proposal. When I look at,
I guess — if you folks were — if you and your clients were standing here saying our
systems have failed and we need it. We just don't have the ability to rebuild
these systems that we have now and we need it. That's why the City of Boise
got into that business of selling that capacity was to basically deal with the health
and safety of the community. We probably — the discussion would be different.
You just happened to be here early before your systems failed and that's okay,
that's good. What I guess I am not willing to do is commit the City of Meridian's
resources to studying your proposal. But, I think you are asking us to commit
your own.
Perez: That is correct, Mr. President.
Nary: Study this proposal, see whether or not this agreement and then basically,
I think what we would be asking our staff is would this essentially capacity sale,
would this detract from our ability to carry out our sewer master plan? Would this
somehow speed our capacity up sooner than we anticipated? Would it then
hinder our ability to serve within our community and within our boundaries, would
this somehow impact the necessity of building on to the treatment plant sooner?
And if it is so, what's that cost and what's that cost going to be to the other
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 17 of 21
users? How are we going to recoup that through this agreement with you folks?
But, I guess for me to study it, to see whether or not it makes some practical
sense and what the cost would be to the City, I don't have any aversion to that. I
think having that information gives us at least something to make a better
decision on. I don't, at least for me, I don't feel like I have enough information to
say no.
Perez: Thank you, Mr. President. That is correct. The only, I guess to be really
straight forward about it, there would be a need from time to time as JUB was
doing their running their calculations, there would be a need to discuss their
progress with Mr. Watson and make sure that they are making the right choices.
So, some consultation time of your staff — a very limited amount, would be
required with consultation with JUB. To that extent there may be some
resources, but the financial resources and the major work would be all done by
ourselves and JUB.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Just a comment. While I understand and what Mr. Nary said sounds
reasonable, I feel — I certainly don't want to send a group of people out to spend
resources studying an issue that we are addressing even within our own city.
We have had individuals that are property owners come and ask us when they
are going to be able to receive city services and they are within our area of
impact and so at that level I am not as comfortable saying go out and do a study
and bring it back. I am not sure that the result is going to help that much at this
point and time. That's my opinion.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I am not opposed to having the study moved forward. I just want you
all to know that at least from my perspective that I am not inclined to be
favorable, though my mind is not made up, it's pretty close. So, you know, don't
go into it with rose colored glasses thinking that my 9 or 10 thousand dollar
investment is going to get me in because — (inaudible----). Just to be fair.
Perez: Mr. President, Madame Mayor.
Nary: Certainly, go ahead Mr. Perez.
Perez: I understand that, I guess the idea would be that if the study did not
determine any negative impact on the City of Meridian and it's ability to grow into
the future that I guess I'm (inaudible) in being able to move forward is that there
is a reasonable possibility to utilize any capacity that is there, again, that if
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 18 of 21
provided your staff makes the determination that there is no negative impact to
your community. If there were negative impact found, then obviously you need to
decide accordingly.
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I agree with Shaun and Charlie to a degree, not 100 percent, but the
problem I see out there is the impact and stuff isn't going — and like Charlie says,
if you go spend 9 or 10 pounder there is no guarantee. I have a problem
servicing other cities' impact area, the same as I would have other sewer districts
or water districts coming in and servicing our area. I think it's like Mr. Wardle
said we have got a tremendous amount of our own impact area that has been
our impact area for years that we are not ready to service and there are
developers out there wanting to develop it. I think that we have to look at that.
Now, if you get out of the Eagle impact area, like the proposal was brought to us
before, hey (inaudible----). This is one guy to take a good hard look at it.
Rountree: This is one guy that would take a real hard look at that too. I am sure
the Linley's would be jumping for joy.
Bird: I think we are just doing some things that probably isn't — we shouldn't be
doing at this point; stepping on other municipalities' toes and their impact area.
We would not like them stepping on our toes. We have had that done to us. We
don't like it. We have got a thing coming up before us right now that another
municipality is trying to take some stuff away from one of our taxing entities. I am
like Mr. Rountree, you can go do that, but make sure you understand that there is
no guarantee that we are going to do it. If you spend your 10 thousand dollars,
there is not guarantee that this guy going to vote for it.
Wardle: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I would just like to follow up on something that Mr. Perez says and said.
That was that if the study determined that the staff level that there wasn't any
negative impact that you would assume that you could proceed forward with that
process and well, not in my opinion, but in fact, that's a policy decision
determined by this Council, not a staff level decision that if there aren't or doesn't
appear to be any negative impact based on modeling that it will automatically
happen. I just again wanted to — before any resources or time is spent that it is a
policy decision that will come from Council.
Perez: Mr. President, Madame Mayor.
Nary: Mr. Perez.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 19 of 21
Perez: I appreciate that, Mr. Wardle. Mr. Bird, I just would add one comment to
what you had said. I agree with 100 percent of with what you said, however, if
the City of Eagle was not in favor of this agreement in order to sewer their area,
in other words in realizing that the City of Eagle is not part of this sewer district,
but if they were also to step forward and say hey we don't have a problem with
this then would that tend to alleviate your concern with regards to stepping on
anybody's toes? Because I believe that and maybe Madame Mayor could raise
this issue in her conversations with the Mayor of Eagle. They would like to have
our development. Obviously it's going to be their tax base, whether you provide
the service or don't and they want to see the development occur realizing that
this is really the only way that it can occur. So, I think they would be very much
in favor of that.
Bird: Well, I am like Mr. Rountree; I'd have an open mind on that. A lot more
open at that point than it is right now.
Perez: Thank you.
Nary: Yeah, Mr. Perez you were reading my mind. I was going to ask the Mayor
to see if she wanted to add this to her agenda to discuss with Mayor Merrill.
De Weerd: I have a growing list.
Nary: And to at least get their feedback because obviously we aren't in the
business of stepping on other people's toes. We don't like it. Other entities don't
like it and we are not wanting to do that. I don't think we probably could make it
any clearer that you know we are willing to let you spend your money, but a year
from now you are standing here saying we spent 10 thousand dollars studying
this you have got to do this for us, we are not promising we are going to do
anything.
Perez: I promise I won't stand here and tell you that you got to do anything
today.
Nary: Well, we record all these meetings and we will remember that we said that
to you. I am sure that we will make sure to bring that back up to you, but if you
want to proceed and study that I certainly don't have an objection and I am not
hearing a boisterous objection from the rest of this Council to go ahead and
make that study. Am I reading that correctly, Council is that all right? With that
caveat that we have given you if you want to study that and get with our staff
when it's at their convenience to be able to work that in, I think Mr. Watson is
pretty busy, but to work that in with what they got to do they've got to do they
certainly will work with you.
Perez: Okay.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 20 of 21
Nary: Is that a fair assessment, Mr. Watson at your schedule?
Watson: Yes it is Mr. President. The only thing that Mr. Perez is asking is that
we allow him and his consultant to use our work product, which is the sewer
model and unless you have any objections I will release JUB to use that.
Nary: I think that's okay.
Watson: Thank you.
Nary: Mr. Smith did you have any thought that you wanted to add to that before
we are done? You can always make a comment later.
Smith: Mr. President, Mayor and Council members I guess it's just an issue that
we need to look at for that whole area between Chinden and the bluff. You
know, I don't want to — I understand what Mr. Perez's issue is and his objective
and the other property owners that came before you earlier this evening, but it
seems like the whole area needs to be looked at really hard as far as sewer
services are concerned. The other thing that always is in the back of my mind is
the length of time that it takes to develop treatment capacity at the wastewater
plant as compared to the length of time it takes to develop a subdivision with a lift
station and a pressure line and those two things are apples and oranges. As
Councilman Bird said, we are trying to keep some excess capacity at the plant
for the properties that we presently have within our area of impact that can be
served, such as the Black Cat trunk extension area. So, we really got some
multiple balls in the area you might say and I really need to be careful about how
we proceed and that we do it in a group effort in a larger area so we don't
continually have to address these individual projects. JUB's well versed in our
plan, they developed it for us. I know that will be upper most in their mind, but I
just wanted to kind of reiterate that. Thank you.
Rountree: Thanks, Gary.
Nary: Thank you. I don't want to cut off Mr. Linley if he would like to have a few
moments that certainly fine before we are done.
Perez: Thank you very much.
Linley: My name is Tio Linley. I live at 4125 Harbor Point, Meridian. I just
wanted to thank you. It's a tough situation when your landowner. My family
bought this property in 1958 and he is getting up in the years now and trying to
retire and we just hit a lot of things that we couldn't get through with Eagle City. I
won't say it's a last resort, but it's — we appreciate you looking at this and I really
even though the people that maybe were in front of us, I understand where they
are coming from and I certainly wish we could have done that and got ahead of
the curve knowing what we know now. I can tell you that to answer you, you are
right there is a problem area — everything out there. As near as we can tell there
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 25, 2004
Page 21 of 21
is no answer. There is no place for us to go, so I thank you for the opportunity
and just hearing us today. Thank you.
Nary: Thank you. Council, we are at the end of our agenda if you would make a
motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Bird: Second.
Nary: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn the Pre -Council meeting of May
25th. All those in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 7:05 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
TAMMY DE WEERD, MAY
ATTESTED:
6,22,0 F
DATE APPROVED
"N""1111111111" 1"
\ OF ME/��y9 �'..
OPA
SEAL
G. BERG, A., CITY CL
CQUN