HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 05-18 PreCITY OF MERIDIAN
PRE -COUNCIL MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, May 18, 2004 at 6:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda:
3. Update of the Assessment for the City Of Meridian by Robert
McQuade, Ada County Assessor: Presented
(* 20 minutes)
4. Three Cities Rivers Project by ACHD — Katey Levign and Sally
Presented
(* 30 minutes)
*Approximate allowable time set for agenda item may change depending on
discussion. Please use the designated minutes as a guideline only.
Meridian City Pre -Council Agenda — May 18, 2004 Page 1 of 1
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Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting May 18, 2004
The Meridian City Pre -Council meeting was called to order at 6:00 P.M. on
Tuesday, May 18, 2004 by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Bill Nary, Keith Bird, Shaun Wardle
and Charlie Rountree.
Staff Present: Gary Smith, Anna Powell, Jill Holinka, Bill Musser and Will Berg.
Item 1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Bill Nary X Keith Bird
X Shaun Wardle X Charlie Rountree
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Item 2. Adoption of the Agenda:
Bird: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we adopt the agenda as published.
Rountree: Second.
Nary: It's been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda as published. All
those in favor say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
Item 3. Update of the Assessment for the City Of Meridian by Robert
McQuade, Ada County Assessor:
Nary: Mr. McQuade.
McQuade: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to come up here and chatting
with you about the assessed values. I think you are all pretty interested in that.
We are going to be sending you assessment notices out the weekend of the 28� .
So, I thought I would just stop by and tell you what's going on in the commercial
real estate market and residential real estate. I really doubt that I am going to be
telling you anything that you don't know already or that you don't have a gut
feeling for. This, I think, will probably just confirm what you feel or you know
already. Also, I wanted to just stop by and tell you because a large piece of your
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 2 of 16
budget comes from property taxes and assessed value is certainly an important
component of that. I am going out on a limb. Years ago we decided to do this,
even though my predecessor wouldn't do it because these numbers change
somewhat. But several cities were calling me and asking for this information. I
thought, well, we will just go ahead and just give that to them anyway. So, I
would just hope that you keep in mind that we are very early in the assessment
process and that these numbers are going to change somewhat, especially just
(inaudible) the assessment notices out. People are going to be calling, we will be
revising the values and we will go through the Board of Equalization, the Board of
Tax Appeals and so the numbers will change somewhat, but I think with that all
being said I think these numbers, still, are really important to you and we look at
them and they really give me a feel of what's going on. You do have a handout
that Will Berg passed out a few minutes ago. It will look something like this and if
you wanted to follow along — (inaudible). First of all the total market value in
Meridian is 3.3 billion dollars, that's at 18 percent and that is really just a great
number, especially when you look in terms of the other areas in the county. Last
year it was at 14 percent and that was really a robust number. So, it's even
beyond that. The taxable value is 2.7 billion and that's at 19 percent over 2003
and again comparing the percentage change to last year, it was at 15 percent,
which is really strong throughout the county. Taxable value is 82 percent of the
total value — that is the market value less any exemptions that would —
specifically we would really be looking at the homeowner's exemption. The
residential parcel count is $18,029 and that's up 12 percent. Last year it was 10
percent. It's just phenomenal growth going on over here. It really is the
residential market is what is just so strong. The residential market value is 2.3
billion and that's up 20 percent and last year it was up 15 percent. I think you
guys just have so many challenges that you have to face because of the
booming residential market over here. This to me is really an important number
and that is the meeting increase on existing residential properties. It's up 1.6
percent. Last year on existing residential it was 2.6 percent. Countywide we are
looking at increases at about 2.3 percent. To me that's really important because
usually when we have problems it's coming from the high increase values of
residential properties. In Boise where we have older neighborhoods, there we
have much larger increases on the existing residential property. Why would we
have the difference 1.6 percent compared to the large increase? Meridian is a
fairly new community compared to a lot of the older parts of Boise. We really
have a good handle on existing residential property in the new residential
property and the further we move away from 2003 or 2004, that's when we see
the larger increases in value. The commercial market value is $924 million.
That's up 11 percent. That's down 13 percent over the previous year. Moving on
to the new construction piece, that's important because we — our values, our
budgets, we get to increase them 3 percent over last year, plus last year's levy
times the new construction component. Market value of new construction was
$200 million. It's up 11 percent. Residential parcel count. You had 1,138 new
parcels. Last year we had 871 new parcels. The new residential construction is
113 million. That's up 44 percent over last year's new construction in residential
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 3 of 16
property. Commercial you have 56 new parcels at 33 million and that's up from
54 parcels last year and it's on the count it's — you really haven't seen a lot of
growth in the number of new commercial, new construction. In fact, the value is
off about 32 percent, so your commercial is not nearly as strong as you're
residential. We have new subs change of status — that would be if you added a
farm that was subdivided — that would then become the new subs. 54.8 million,
that's up 1.5 percent over last years 54 million. Urban renewal — this to me is a
real important piece. Some areas we are seeing problems because of urban
renewal and it's starting to take a large piece of the budgets. Urban renewal is
18.7 million this year compared to 10.6 million last year. That's a 76 percent
increase. It seems like where we have the urban renewal areas — that's where
we are seeing the largest increase in value. (Inaudible---) this is also an
interesting number and that is the tax burden. That is who is bearing the biggest
piece of the property tax. Residential is 62 percent compared too commercial at
38 percent. We are seeing a shift. Last year residential (inaudible) 59 percent of
the property tax burden, while commercial was 41 percent. So, we are seeing a
bigger shift over to the residential property owners and why I think that is really a
critical piece, last year in the legislature there were several bills trying to deal with
controlling property taxes and almost every one of them was addressed at
residential property tax, so we see more of the burden going over to residential
property owners. I think we are going to see even a larger movement of
(inaudible) something with the property tax, whether it's capping it, making
exemptions for seniors and I really do expect to see even a larger run in the
legislature this next year. So, this is why the tax burden, to me, really is — it's
pretty important because the residential property owners are very concerned and
we are going to see even more of it being pushed over to them. Mayor and
Council members, that is my report of the property taxes or the assessed values,
at least, over in the City of Meridian.
Nary: Any questions for Mr. McQuade?
Rountree: I have none.
Bird: I have none. Certainly was a nice report.
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
De Weerd: I guess I have a question and I don't know if you can answer it.
Where I see our new construction is where we can in some regard, meet some of
the new service needs of our growth. But, in figuring new construction -values
that's based on a shell and core and it doesn't include any of the personal
improvements or the tenant improvements when that shell is filled — is that
correct?
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 4 of 16
McQuade: Under the new construction that is correct. But, that is going to show
up as an assessed value (inaudible) that's going to be included in the commercial
property because all of the tenant improvements are going to be picked up in the
commercial appraisal —
De Weerd: Which falls under your 3 percent cap, which drives your levy rate
down.
McQuade: Yes, yes.
De Weerd: So, we don't really benefit from the new construction or the tenant
improvements. For example, you have a building like what we did at Linder
Crossing and you have eight businesses in there. While the new construction
was valued on just the shell and core and not as each new business came in
there and did their tenant improvements to personalize their own space, so that
value is not captured in new construction, even though it is associated with new
construction and certainly is associated with the service demands to service that
new business. Same as, I guess, my soapbox at this time happens to be when
you have an empty building like Jabil; it went from $65 million dollars in market
value to $20 million when the personal property was moved out. Now, when a
tenant fills that it could possibly go back up to $65 million dollars you are capped
— you know those tenant improvements or anything they need to do won't be
captured in your new construction, so really your shifting your burden from other
parts of your community when you put someone in there and they become a
large employer again because you can't capitalize on the new market value. It is
more of an incentive to go build somewhere than to fill existing buildings because
you don't benefit by it. So, do you have any solutions to that? Can you pull that
out of your hat?
Nary: At least it was an easy question.
McQuade: Well, Madame Mayor that is a very good question. I think the people
really with the answers to that would be your legislators because it is by statute
that this is all set. Perhaps after the election you could get with them and
express with them what you just expressed to me because I think you make
some very good points.
De Weerd: I guess follow up — when you determine new construction do you
have any leeway to consider the finished product, rather than what the building
permit is based on.
McQuade: Madame Mayor, you have got me into a corner and my back is
against the wall and you are going to force me to say something that I didn't want
to say and that is it possibly could be included in there because under certain
parcels, especially with commercial property, some things whether it's
considered real property or personal property there is some room for discretion
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 5 of 16
and our personal property appraiser and the commercial property appraiser they
will sit down and hash this out. So, we try to work that out so I — well, I guess the
long and short of it is there are cases where there are pieces of property that one
could say this is personal property (inaudible) included it in the real property
appraisal. We don't like doing that, we try to avoid that, but that does happen
because there is some judgment involved in this.
De Weerd: I guess my question then would be the market value will be the
same, it just depends on where you put them and our taxing formulas. Certainly,
we would rather have it in new construction than putting it up into the market
value because the market value is capped and that is certainly a restraint to us
where as, you know, we would like to certainly realize the full value in the new
construction. Could perhaps you report back to us on that? I certainly would be
interested.
McQuade: Okay, I'll tell you if I may, but, I am on a committee that the tax
commission has put together to study how properties are being categorized and
it's really going to impact this and now that study is going to be, I think, better
definitions. So, I think with the outgrowth of this is going to be is perhaps we will
be less inclined to put real property in with real property. So, if anything we are
moving away from like what you want, but again really it is a statutory problem. I
would be happy to get back in touch with you as we are moving through this and
giving you an update of where we are headed on it. But, I know what your
concern is and I think it's a real good concern and I will certainly make this known
to the members of the legislature that I run in to and other people involved in the
property tax process because when a business does open up they do bring a lot
of personal property into it and that's when you are going to need fire protection,
police protection and it's going to be a real demand on your services and right
now it's not really being captured in the growth component.
De Weerd: Umm hmn. Thank you.
Nary: Any other questions for Mr. McQuade?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: No.
Item 4. Three Cities Rivers Project by ACHD — Katey Levign and Sally:
Nary: Which one of you is Jay Schweiterzen?
(Inaudible discussion)
Levign: Mayor De Weerd, President Nary and Council members. Katey Levign,
PPC Manager for ACHD and my first order is to extend Jay's apologies for not
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May 18, 2004
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being able to be here, so, I will tell him you all recognize that he wasn't here.
Second of all, I did bring the real expert on Three Cities Rivers Crossing and that
is Sally Gadell right behind me to talk about that and she will give you a little bit
of a history, the current status and the next steps and a little overview of the
project and then I am here to answer funding questions in the (inaudible). I know
there has been some concern on Three Cities River Crossing and how it's going
to be funded. I don't know if I can do any better than Council member Rountree
there, but we will give it a shot and I also didn't know if you wanted to hear
anything on the Locust Grove overpass, so I am ready to address a little bit of
that too. I will let Sally go first. Where did she disappear too? Okay.
Gadell: Mayor De Weerd, Mr. President and Council, thank you for letting me
come and visit with you. I brought a few things to really as much for your future
reference as tonight, but I may refer to a couple of them. I will offer them to you.
This is an overview of the projects that we used at a public meeting in February;
it's still quite (inaudible ---). This is a set of — Katie you know we can put that
down and I will just grab it when I need it. It's hard to see from here anyway.
The lighting isn't all that great. This is just a set of frequently asked questions
and answers that we put together for a variety of situations about the project.
Again, I will refer back to these; I probably will not refer to this specifically, but it
might be of value to you in the future. Okay. Just a little background here. This
project is about creating a new River Crossing and a new crossing of the bench
somewhere between Glenwood and Eagle Road. There is a four -mile stretch
where there is no way to get across the river and it would connect State Street
and to Chinden Boulevard. Actually, if you look in that PowerPoint Presentation
at the fourth page, there is a good, simple overview of the — or map of the project
area. The idea of putting the River Crossing in this area was first contemplated
in 1961 in the Ada County Major Thorough Fairs Plan. They propose putting a
road from right where State Highway 55 hits State Street and connecting it up to
Five Mile Road. That was not implemented at the time and again in the 1990's
when Ada County Highway District took a look at the Bench to Valley study they
reconfirmed that there was a need for the road in the area. In the Bench to
Valley study they looked at a 33 square mile area and the principle purpose was
to figure out ways to get across the Boise River and across the Bench, which is a
(inaudible) transportation in that area and they recommended again in the
(inaudible) Valley study that this road be put in place. It had a slightly different
configuration in that study. They recommended coming off of Highway 55 and
then splitting, after you cross the Boise River, splitting into two separate roads.
One of which would link up at Cloverdale and one of which would link up at
Mountain View. I think most of those are on — yeah, those are all on the map if
that's helpful. The reason that the split or what's commonly called the coat
hanger was proposed was to mitigate concern about — or impacts on traffic,
impacts on neighborhoods to the south of Chinden. So, the coat hanger in that
particular link has been included in the long-range transportation plan and it was
included in the 2015 plan, the 2020 plan and the 2025 plan. The current study
basically begins to implement that Bench to Valley study recommendation. We
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May 18, 2004
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started the current study in December 2003 and what is within the scope of this
study is to get the environmental clearances for and do enough concept design
so that we can get ACHD in a position to be able to inquire right of way. That, at
this point is as far as the study will go. Right now there is very rapid
development in the area and it is certainly to ACHD's advantage to be able to
purchase that right of way before there's houses and businesses that we need to
be dealing with if that's possible. There was also an opportunity to coordinate
with a project that's occurring at the head of the island, the Flight Control District
10 and the Army Core of Engineers are looking at flood management and
environmental restoration at the head of the island in a project that's going on
right now and there was an opportunity to get the two projects to come out with
outcomes that agree with each other instead of conflict and so that's kind of an
opportunity. It is a pilot study under the Idaho Transportation Department's
Corridor (inaudible) Planning Guide. Really what that means is that we are
taking the environmental studies, which normally happen or in many cases in the
past have happened much later in the design process and we are bringing it back
early into the corridor planning stage. This is really a pilot under that effort. The
only one that I am aware of that we have here in the Boise Valley. The project is
going to require an environmental impact statement, which is the most detailed
level of environmental analysis that might be required and Federal Highways has
indicated that they want to see that occur because we are talking about
somewhere between 1 % to 3 miles of new roadway, probably four to five lanes.
So, there is a potential significant environmental impact. We are also trying to
demonstrate in this project environmental streamlining, which is — the short
version here is that the process frequently can take three to five to seven years
to get through the environmental process and we are going to see if we can't
organize ourselves and deliver the outcome — what we need to acquire right of
way within 18 to 24 months. Right now just in terms of status and activities we
held our first round of public meetings in February; had about 500 people come
to those so we were pleased with that. We were asking them do they think the
road needs to be built and where do they think it should go and what do they
think are the major concerns that we should be paying attention to. There was
an overwhelming yes about the road being built. There was a strong interest in
seeing the road link up to the intersection of State Highway 55 and State Street
and come south from there. There was strong interest in having it be a limited
access road. Many times we heard we don't want another Eagle Road. Strong
concern about impacts to the Boise River and also considerable concern as we
heard in the Bench to Valley study about impacts to neighborhoods to the south,
the traffic impacts in particular. Since then we have done a screening level
environmental evaluation and then we held another public meeting in April where
we went back with that environmental information and said public what — given
this information which of the alignments do you think that we should advance?
We have consulted — we are still in the process of consulting with the
environmental agencies, with our technical and community advisory committees.
What I can show you — we actually have a draft recommendation out to the
environmental committees right now, but what I can show you off this, hopefully it
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 8of16
will be relatively easy to see — what we are recommending, again, clearly based
on all the comment that the (inaudible) — this is State Street and this is Highway
55, but the (inaudible) off there — these are all the alignments that were
(inaudible) during the first public meetings.
Nary: So, we are not going to build all of those?
Gadell: No. We thought not.
Rountree: Not initially anyway.
Gadell: We are going to focus on alignments that come down through this
corridor right in here in the middle because there is really the least potential
environmental impact through that area.
De Weerd: Where all the water is?
Gadell: Yes. Well, there is also actually kind of land bridges between the ponds
that are not immediately obvious because the lines cover them. Then we are
going to look at three potential connections to Chinden. One of them to
Cloverdale; one of them to Five Mile; and one of them to Mountain View, which is
right here. With those configurations, there is really six different ways that you
can put this together depending upon whether it's a single connection or two
connections to Chinden and that's the recommendation that we put forward to
the environmental agencies. You know, I probably should have said this before,
but the real driver for this is that when we look at the COMPASS model and what
the future growth is going to look like, Glenwood and Eagle Road reach level of
(inaudible) by 2015; with growth and the current conditions — and that includes
the system improvements that are in the 2025 transportation plan. So the
inability to meet the traffic demand to get across the river in this area is really the
driving force at this point behind the project. We hope that we will by the end of
June have approval of which alignments to advance for more detailed analysis
and at that point we will launch concept design, detail traffic analysis and detailed
environmental studies. We hope to have a preferred alignment recommendation
by the fall, a draft environmental impact statement this winter and a final
environmental impact statement next spring. That will position ACHD to begin
acquiring right away really as soon as the summer of 2004 if all goes well. The
options for acquiring right of way are many. We could look at — you know this
area is developing rapidly. We can work with people through the development
process. There has been some interest expressed in public/private partnerships
that could help us acquire right of way. We have the ability to use impact fees
and potentially other funds. Another element of the project is to do an analysis of
potential future funding sources that will occur when we get out to the point
where we are starting to think about acquiring right of way. So, we don't know
exactly what that will look like. Right now construction is estimated to occur in
2015. It actually shows up in the ACHD Capital Improvements Plan between —
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 9of16
sooner than that. I want to say 11 to 16 years out. The actual timing depends on
funding. This particular project was identified as a priority for the Transportation
Act, Reauthorization, but it did not make either the house bill or the senate bill.
So, we don't know what, when construction would be likely to occur. There is
many steps that would need to occur and substantial funds that would have to be
put together before we could really launch that. The important thing from our
perspective at this point is that we position ACHD to be able to acquire the right
of way as the development occurs. So, I think with that I'd like to stop chatting
and offer the opportunity for any questions.
Nary: Council, Mayor any questions?
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor
De Weerd: You mentioned that Eagle and Glenwood would reach service "f' by
2015. You are only talking a stretch between State and Chinden. How does the
traffic disseminate and how would that help the further south part of Chinden by
putting this amount of money into this one solution?
Gadell: Are you thinking the further south part of Chinden or Eagle?
De Weerd: Further south of Chinden on Eagle.
Gadell: Okay, thank you, Madame Mayor, it depends on the configuration. It's
fairly interesting how you hook up to Chinden attracts different people interested
in going different directions, however, it does suggest the preliminary analysis
that we have done does suggest that if we work with the connections to Chinden
that we described that it actually reduces the traffic on Eagle Road south of
Chinden as well.
De Weerd: So, it will not be service "f" if this is done further south of Chinden on
Eagle?
Gadell: That's a good question. I have not looked at that yet. At this point we
have done preliminary traffic analysis just for the purpose of screening these
alternatives and once we have the alternatives for detailed analysis, we will go
and look in much more depth at the traffic implications of various configurations
and I know that it reduces traffic on Eagle Road. I do not know whether it
reduces traffic below the level of service "f threshold. An example would be
Glenwood. Glenwood when you get out to — we are running the traffic models
out to 2035 and when you get out to 2035, Glenwood is at level service T' even
with this new road. But, it's a little bit of level service "f' instead of very bad level
of service "f'. It actually — it creates a significant contribution. So, I can't quite
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May 18, 2004
Page 10 of 16
answer the question in the way that you phrased it. I would be happy to get that
answer as we do the more detailed analysis on what you know.
De Weerd: What kind of models or analysis are you using and I guess the next
part of that question would be have you done — do you know — do you have a
destination study, too on where that traffic is actually going. If they are going to I-
84 anyway they will head out onto Eagle regardless.
Gadell: Madame Mayor we do not have a separate origin destination study, but
we have looked at where people are coming from and where they are going
using the COMPASS model and that's the model that we use. The one that is
the currently accepted COMPASS model and with the configurations that we are
looking at right here — what we see is that people come from this sort of
northwest quadrant, north of State Street and west of State Highway 55 and then
kind of convene towards the crossing. Once they get across the river, they
distribute primarily south and east. So, they are going into downtown and they
distribute to the south into all of those neighborhoods and along Five Mile and
Maple Grove. You don't actually see any one road getting a lot of traffic. Having
said that we have done a model run on one alignment that was requested just to
try and understand what the traffic might do that comes actually from State
Highway 55 and hooks up over here to Eagle Road. When you do that, you look
at it that way it actually does — it is people going to the freeway that use it and it
does put more traffic on Eagle Road south of Chinden.
De Weerd: I guess that is my concern. You mention you use COMPASS model
well, they missed the Eagle — Franklin area by — well, I guess they hit it just 17
years early. So, we are concerned about the level of service there far before the
level of service to the north as people are attempting to get onto the Interstate
and so this is a lot of money for — and I guess I would be interested to know —
you solved the service 1' problem in a small portion of Eagle Road, but it doesn't
solve it for the other three miles to the Interstate.
Gadell: Yes, Madame Mayor I have not looked at the entire length to the
Interstate. It does improve at least in the model runs we have done now it does
improve conditions between Chinden and Fairview. What we see when we run
the model and this is consistent with what they saw in the Bench to Valley Study
is that the people who are getting across the river and using these — this
particular route, typically they — not very many of them actually get past Fairview.
Very few of them are interested in getting to the freeway. The proportion of traffic
that crosses the river — that uses that river crossing and head south, very little of
it goes past Fairview. It's mostly trying to get into those intervening
neighborhoods. We will be able to much better answer your questions about the
impacts on the rest of Chinden once we have the approval for the alignments and
can do that more detailed modeling.
Wardle: Mr. President.
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May 18, 2004
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Nary: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: A funding question and I have heard the initial study term as far as 1
million dollars. Where did — was that a fund that was allocated? Where did
those funds come from, I guess, is my question and is that a right figure?
Gadell: Councilman Wardle. No it is not, actually. The initial study is closer to
1.8 million. Right now it's not fully funded, but we have about 1.5 million — 1.44, 1
think. A million of that was STP urban funds. We have — oh, plus the $145,000.
So, there is $1,145,000 that is STP urban funds. The State of Idaho has
provided $300,000 the Department of Transportation and then there is the
State's match. That's the funding that we have to date and that will take us well
through this fiscal year. The balance — I don't think we know where the balance
is going to come from. Maybe Katy can speak to that better than 1.
Levign: Yes, Councilman Wardle, the $350,000 that's remaining has been
requested through the STP TMA funds and for follow on work ACHD's got 1
million dollars of local funds programmed out in the PD. Now, the first million that
was obtained from the STP urban funds was obtained when — I can't remember if
it was Coeur d'Alene or Pocatello — somebody couldn't do a project and what
happens with federal funds is you use them or lose them or they go to the locals
and they can go to ITD and if ITD doesn't use them then they have to return them
to the federal government. So, there was an opportunity there and you have to
be able to do what's called obligate those funds very quickly and a study is easily
able to be obligated and ACHD went down through it's list of projects that could
meet those criteria and Three Cities was very high on our priority list, so we used
it for those.
Wardle: Mr. President, may I ask what other projects were on that list?
Levign: On our priority list?
Affirmed answer.
Levign: Oh gosh. At the time we had 112 projects. They ranged from, I think,
Franklin Road was the number one project clear all the way down to a project in
Kuna — and a couple of projects in Garden City. They would have included
everything across the county, but you have to understand that to be able to
obligate funds in about three months' time, you cannot use them for construction
unless that project is already gotten the design approved and the right of way
acquired, so there was constrictions for use of the funds.
Nary: I am, I guess, a little curious about this too. I listened to your at least
preliminary analysis of the roadway traffic level service. It sounds like a
battleship with a huge hole in it and this sounds like a band-aid to me. Its not
going to address those traffic concerns to any large degree, it just slows down.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 12 of 16
When we are going to get to "F? Are we going to get there in 2010? Or are we
going to get there in 2015? But, I guess I am just curious — there is no
employment centers north of State, now I am going to say a bad word that I
heard today at the Chamber, which is Spring Valley Ranch. They seem to be the
only one that might benefit by this river crossing to the largest degree. The
population base, I guess I don't necessarily see the population base growing
north or west — or north or east of Highway 55 -- in the Glenwood area I think the
population base is growing west in this county, not north of this except for Spring
Valley Ranch. So, we are alleviating one small problem, but we still put these
people — they are not driving through neighborhoods. I don't know who would
drive from north to south across this bridge into a neighborhood, when there is no
employment north of the river. They are going to drive — they drive on Eagle
Road and they drive on Glenwood because that's where the commercial areas
are. That's where the retail areas are and the access to the freeway and the
access to retail. So, to me this gets them across the river in front of HP or in
front of Target and they can't go anywhere except to Eagle Road or through a
neighborhood and I am not sure why they would want to go through a
neighborhood once they cross the river. They either live north of the river and
they are driving to a commercial area or they have been in the commercial area
south and they are going to go back. So, maybe the south to north traffic is
going to be funneled on three roads instead of one or two, but the concern I have
is from government we seem to sometimes put lots of different eggs in lots of
different baskets and sometimes the criticism that we all get at the end of the day
is we didn't get any of them done and I guess for us what we think is a band aid
out here is the Ten Mile Interchange and I recognize that's not all ACHD's
project, but I am just afraid this project is going to deter other folks from helping
on the west end of this valley where I think is where the majority of the growth is.
I just don't see it on the north. I guess I am just not real convinced that, you
know, thirty or forty million dollar project is that big a priority in comparison to the
people that already live here in the west side of the valley and can't get across
our town in less than 15 minutes because there is nowhere to go.
Gadell: I'd like to address three or four issues that you raised in that (inaudible).
Thank you, I didn't mean to bang this off.
De Weerd: We make statements, not questions.
Gadell: Oh, three or four comments. May I?
Nary: Go ahead.
Gadell: First of all you are absolutely right it doesn't solve the region -wide
problems and probably no single road or solution is going to do that. It improves
part of the system, it does not improve the entire system and there are many new
transportation challenges that are going to have to be considered. This is just
one of a whole number of pieces that have to go together. In this particular case,
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 13 of 16
the Bench to Valley Study looked at crossing the Bench to Valley and
recommended a whole series of crossings and this is —there is only this one and
one other that haven't been built. So, you are totally and absolutely accurate that
it doesn't address the regional system as a whole. It creates some
improvements. Your questions about how the — how people use the road are
really questions about the efficacy of the model at this point because we have
that tool to look at to try to understand what — how demand will occur and how
the road will be used and the model predicts that 35 to 40 thousand cars a day
are going to use that river crossing if it's built. If we — if there are questions about
sort of the accuracy of the model and the efficacy of the model then I think that
we would want to bring someone well versed in the model itself to answer those
questions. I just want to be clear that I am not the best person to answer that.
With respect to the priority of this particular project, I think it's just very important
to consider that ACHD's purpose is to position the Highway District that they can
acquire right of way. Questions about the sequence in which the actual project
should be constructed are a decision that is subject to the decision-making of the
ACHD Commission and with respect to the federal funds of COMPASS and if a
conclusion is drawn that they should be constructed in a different order that's
certainly a viable alternative. When we look at the results that we are looking at
in the things that I described to you in the preliminary traffic modeling. That is
with the Highway 16 Interchange built and the River Crossing from Highway 16 to
— excuse me, the Ten Mile Interchange and the Highway 16 River Crossing
already constructed by the time you get to 2025. 1 don't know if that was — didn't
answer all your concerns, but a few.
Nary: That's okay, thank you.
Rountree: Mr. President.
Nary: Mr. Rountree
Rountree: You may or may not of addressed this when you did the modeling, but
I would be curious and I don't expect you to answer, but it would be interesting to
see what a toll on this facility would do to the distribution of traffic and it might
very well be that there is enough localized traffic that a nominal toll, at least,
could pay part of the cost of this project or possibly create a revenue stream or
some kind of a revenue bond that could be utilized as part of the cost of the
project. Those are only as good as you can model, but when people get
uncomfortable sometimes they are willing to pay an extra quarter to get home
five minutes faster or get across the river, instead of waiting for 10 or 12 light
changes. Might want to look at that.
Gadell: Thank you, Mr. Rountree. I made a note so that we can include that
especially when we get to the future funding analysis.
De Weerd: Mr. President
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 14 of 16
Nary: Madame Mayor
De Weerd: I guess, you know, because I keep hearing this as being an answer
to the congestion on Eagle Road. I can only see that it's an answer to the
congestion on Eagle Road between State and Chinden and what the distribution
once they hit Chinden and what it will still add to the Eagle Road I would hope
could be part of the impact analysis or, you know, how that works. But, also I
mentioned the modeling or the COMPASS model used for Eagle and the
Interchange or the Eagle Interchange at 1-84, they said, oh, we nailed that figure.
Well, yeah, it was just 17 years earlier because in their model they didn't
consider the land use and the future growth to it and so as we look at the models
we used, we also have to be fair as to what's happening along those areas and
that's a Dr. Freilich thing and that's why everyone is so interested in supporting
this regional concept is these type of modeling have fallen short every time of
considering what growth patterns and what uses are accompanying those
models that they use. So, as we do these kinds of things we really need to keep
that in mind in fairness not only to that project, but also to other projects that
might take a secondary seat to them because they are not showing the true
picture or they are not showing how the impact is just shifting. We can't afford
more shift to Eagle Road, you know, just excluding two miles of it.
Gadell: Mr. President, Mayor De Weerd, I can only agree with you. The reason
that we are looking — this project was actually in on everybody's radar screen
when I started working on it three years ago to actually be in study in 15 years
and it's been brought forward because the traffic congestion on Glenwood and
Eagle did, in fact, occur much faster than was anticipated. When we look at the
modeling that was done in the Bench to Valley Study, the demographics and the
traffic congestion were underestimated in every single factor. The growth in that
area has occurred much faster than it was anticipated. We will do our best to try
and understand that and to take that into consideration and we will also try and
address your concerns. I think that will be fairly straight forward to address your
concerns about what is — what kind of relief is provided to Chinden south of —
excuse me, to Eagle Road south of Chinden by whatever configuration might be
proposed.
De Weerd: And I appreciate that, Sally, but also they could connect to Five Mile
and then go to Fairview and still connect to Eagle Road —
(Tum tape over)
De Weerd: (inaudible — ) and that origin, you know, where are they going and
how will they ultimately get there is a big concern because, I think what
Councilman Nary says is correct. Your employment centers certainly are not
north of State and so those — I don't know where those people are really — they
are going to jobs in the south part.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 15 of 16
Gadell: Yeah, I think it's the reverse. It's flipped around. It's not that they are
going to employment centers in the north; it's that you have substantial
residential areas in the Eagle area and it's actually people coming in from
Emmett as well, who are trying to get to the employment areas that are in the
south and east into the City of Boise, down towards the mall, down into all that
direction and then going home. We can do this select link analysis that looks at
where people are going, once they cross that bridge or the reverse and that's
where some of your questions about whether or not people are actually coming
down Five Mile and then going over to Eagle Road, we can look at that with the
select link analysis and give you some understanding in the future when we do
the more detailed analysis and give you a better understanding and us a better
understanding of whether that's occurring or not or is predicted to occur. It's just
a model.
Nary: That was exactly my point is that there isn't anywhere other than to be
going to businesses or retail or commercial, they are not going to go down
Cloverdale. They are going to go to the freeway, which means they are going to
be still backed on Eagle Road, or they are going into the Glenwood area for
businesses or HP. They are going to end up back on Eagle Road, so I guess I
still — I guess my concern is that we are going to spend a lot of money and focus
a lot of dollars and time on a project that really fixes such a small percentage that
our return to our investments is pretty small when you are not — I mean I don't
disagree that we should have another crossing across the river, it's just that
when we are projecting spending 30 or 40 million dollars to do it when in the big
picture priority, it just doesn't seem to fit. When they really aren't (inaudible)
through neighborhoods. These are people who are going to the mall, to Micron,
to the freeway and you know Eagle Road is where they have to end up on
anyway. So, I don't know that getting them across the river for one mile fixes the
problem.
Gadell: Mr. President what I would like to do is ask from you for the opportunity
to bring back that modeling analysis when we have it done, so that we can sit
down and walk through what are — at least our understanding is of what the traffic
would be doing and if it would be helpful, we could at that time bring Mary Anne, I
would think — Waldinger from COMPASS who could answer some of the
questions about the models efficacy and the era factors and where they are
observing differences between what's in the model and what actually occurs on
the ground.
Nary: That would be great, we are here every Tuesday. So, that's great.
De Weerd: Mr. President.
Nary: Madame Mayor.
Meridian City Pre -Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
Page 16 of 16
De Weerd: I guess just to add to it, you mention that you know it's Star and
Emmett as well and they are heading down Eagle. You know the Highway 16
would really help alleviate the impact rather than, I guess the crossing. I'd like to
see the origin study and see where that is coming because that traffic could be
diverted at the extension of Highway 16 with an interchange to connect to the
interstate or by improving the Chinden corridor or Ustick or you know something
like that to get them east, west. So, I appreciate you tolerating us tonight. We
just have a lot of questions.
Gadell: Mr. President, Mayor De Weerd I appreciate the time to get the
opportunity to talk about it because I know it's a concern and the best we can do
is just bring the data back for you and share with you and let you participate in
our discussion about what we should be doing and what the priorities are. Okay?
Nary: Great, thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Nary: Council we are at the end of our agenda. Do we have a motion to
adjourn?
Bird: So moved.
Rountree: Second.
Nary: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn our pre -council session of
Tuesday, May 18`h. All those in favor, say aye.
ALL AYES. MOTION CARRIED.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 6:55 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
APPROVED:
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TAMMY DE WEERD, MAYO DATE
ATTESTED: Q F. A L
WILLIAM G. BERG, JR., qTY%ERK�
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