HomeMy WebLinkAbout2004 05-25CITY OF MERIDIAN
CITY COUNCIL REGULAR MEETING
AGENDA
Tuesday, May 25, 2004 at 7:00 p.m.
City Council Chambers
1. Roll -call Attendance:
X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Pledge of Allegiance: Presented
3. Community Invocation by Ray Allen, Chaplain for American Legion:
Presented
4. Proclamation for American Legion Poppy Day proclaimed Saturday,
May 29, 2004: Presented
5. Adoption of the Agenda: Approve as Amended
6. Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of April 20, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting: Approve
B. Approve Minutes of April 27, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting: Approve
C. Approve Minutes of May 11, 2004 City Council Regular Meeting:
Approve
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 03-
022 Request for annexation and zoning of 5 acres from RT to C -G
zones for Kissler (Deals Parcell by BRS Architects — southeast
corner of East Ustick Road and North Eagle Road: Approve
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP 04-
001 Request for Preliminary Final Plat approval for 3 residential
building lots and 1 common lot on .73 acre in an R-15 zone for Trov
Place Subdivision by PPN, LLC — 1236 East 2 'Y2 Street: Approve
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 04-
003 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development
Meridian City Council Agenda— May 25, 2004 Page 1 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
to allow for a multi -family development consisting of 1 tri-plex and 2
four-plexes with reduced street frontage, setbacks and minimum lot
width requirements in an R-15 zone for Troy Place Subdivision by
PPN, LLC —1236 East 2 % Street: Approve
G. Order Accepting Withdrawl of Application: RZ 04-001 Request
for a Rezone of .353 acres from R-4 to O -T zones for NIDAYS
Addition by Merlyn and Brandon Schmeckpeper — 230 West Pine
Avenue: Approve
H. Safety Consulting and Advisory Services — First Link Safety:
Approve
Resolution No. 04434 City of Meridian's
CARE Statement: Approve
7. Department Reports:
A. Planning and Zoning Department
Discussion of Draft DA with Lamont Kouba and Robnett
Construction, Inc.: Discussed
2. Discussion of waiver of Appeal fee for Steve
Christianson: Deny Request
8. (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
9. Continued Public Hearing from May 11, 2004: AZ 03-038 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 21.38 acres from C-2 to C -G zones for
proposed Mussell Corner Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. —
northeast corner of East Victory Road and South Meridian Kuna Highway:
Continue Public Hearing to June 8, 2004 Meeting
10. Continued Public Hearing from May 11, 2004: PFP 03-007 Request
for Preliminary Final Plat approval of 4 commercial building lots on 21.38
acres in a proposed C -G zone for proposed Mussell Corner Subdivision
by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. — northeast comer of East Victory Road and
South Meridian Kuna Highway: Continue Public Hearing to June 8,
2004 Meeting
11. Continued Public Hearing from May 11, 2004: CUP 03-071 Request
for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development to allow the
construction of a combination feed store and gas station / convenience
store on one of the proposed lots and to allow the existing commercial and
residential uses to remain and the property for proposed Mussell Corner
Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. - northeast corner of East
Meridian City Council Agenda —May 25, 2004 Page 2 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Victory Road and South Meridian Kuna Highway: Continue Public
Hearing to June 8, 2004 Meeting
12. Continued Public Hearing from May 18, 2004: AZ 04-006 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 3.06 acres from RUT to L-0 zone for proposed
Southstone Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. — northeast corner
of South Eagle Road and East Girdner Lane: Continue Public Hearing
to June 1, 2004 Meeting
13 Continued Public Hearing from May 18, 2004: PP 04-008 Request for
Preliminary Plat approval of 8 commercial building lots on 3.06 acres in a
proposed L-0 zone for proposed Southstone Subdivision by Pinnacle
Engineers, Inc. — northeast comer of South Eagle Road and East Girdner
Lane: Continue Public Hearing to June 1, 2004 Meeting
14. Public Hearing: AZ 04-003 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 16.73
acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Javdan Village Subdivision
by Packard Estates, LLC — 5325 West Ustick Road: Attorney to Prepare
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval
15. Public Hearing: PP 04-002 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 75
residential building lots and 8 common lots on 16.73 acres in a proposed
R-8 zone for proposed Javdan Village Subdivision by Packard Estates,
LLC — 5325 West Ustick Road: Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact
and Conclusions of Law for Approval
16. Public Hearing: CUP 04-004 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development with request for reduction to the minimum
requirements for lot size, street frontage, and front yard setbacks for side
entry garages for proposed Javdan Village Subdivision by Packard
Estates, LLC — 5325 West Ustick Road: Attorney to Prepare Findings
of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval
17. Public Hearing: AZ 04-004 Request for annexation and zoning of 34.6
acres from RUT to I -L, L-0, and C -G zones for proposed McNelis
Subdivision by Falcon Creek, LLC — northwest corner of North Ten Mile
Road and West Ustick Road: Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact and
Conclusions of Law for Approval
18. Public Hearing: PP 04-004 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 16
commercial building lots and 5 common lots on 34.6 acres in proposed I -L,
L-0, and C -G zones for proposed McNelis Subdivision by Falcon Creek,
LLC — northwest corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road:
Attorney to Prepare Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for
Approval
Meridian City Council Agenda— May 25, 2004 Page 3 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to doc aments and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
19. Public Hearing: PP 04-003 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 2
building lots on 2.7 acres in an I -L zone for Cafarelli Subdivision No. 2
by Shawn Fickes — 1950 West Franklin Road: Attorney to Prepare
Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval
20. Ordinance No. 04-1080 Parks and Recreation
Commission Ordinance: Continue to June 1, 2004 Meeting
Meridian City Council Agenda— May 25, 2004 Page 4 of 4
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearings
please contact the City Clerk's Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Meridian City Council Meetina May 25, 2004.
The regular meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 7:15 P.M.,
Tuesday, May 25, 2004, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, William Nary, Keith Bird, Charlie Rountree
and Shaun Wardle.
Staff Present: Bill Nichols, Tara Green, Brad Hawkins -Clark, Brad Watson, Bill Musser,
Gary Smith, Kenny Bowers, Doug Strong, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
Roll call.
X Shaun Wardle X Bill Nary
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. I will go ahead and call the City Council regular meeting of May 25th
to order. It is 7:15. We will begin with roll call attendance.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance:
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 2 is our pledge of allegiance and tonight we have
Commander Vallerie with the American Legion Post 113. What more appropriate can
we -- how more appropriate than election day to have the post -- or the color guard
leading us in our pledge and posting the flags. So, Commander Vallerie, if you will,
please, join us.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Ray Allen, Chaplain for American Legion:
Allen: Dear Lord, as we gather here tonight for the Mayor's proclamation of Poppy Day,
let us not forget the sacrifices made by our military fighting in the defense of freedom
worldwide. Lord, as our organization, the American Legion and the American Legion
Auxiliary goes back over half a century and is composed of veterans for four great wars,
plus the Gulf War and soon veterans will be added to our roles from Afghanistan and
Iraq, Lord, will you are direct us as members of this great organization to do our part to
honor our fallen comrades, to promote Americanism, to promote Veterans programs for
our veterans and to promote programs for the youth of the community of nations. Lord,
truly the poppy is a fitting symbol for the servicemen. Its birthplace was Flanders,
Belgium, in World War I. The poppy seeds in the soil, the fiercer the fighting the more
the poppies grew. Lord, we ask you blessing on our members of this nation and grant
them the American Legion and the American Legion Auxiliary may always do your will,
in thy name we pray, Amen.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 2 of 59
Item 4: Proclamation for American Legion Poppy Day proclaimed Saturday,
May 29, 2004:
De Weerd: I will read the proclamation for the American Legion. It's Poppy Day on
Saturday, May 29th, and I can't tell you how much this means. We had the ESGR at
our meeting last a week and this week. What a great way to celebrate before Memorial
Day. So, I will read this proclamation. Whereas the members of the American Legion
Auxiliary are asking everyone to wear a poppy in observance of Memorial Day and
whereas in the battlefields of Belgium during World War I poppies grew wild amid the
ravages of war, the overturned soils of battle enabled the poppy seeds to be covered,
allowing them to grow and forever serve as a reminder of the bloodshed of war and
whereas the poppy honors the hospitalized and disabled veterans who make these red
handcrafted flowers, providing financial and therapeutic benefits and whereas the
displaying of the poppy honors the millions of Americans who have willingly served and
are currently serving our nation, as well as all too many would have made the ultimate
sacrifice, therefore, I, Tammy de Weerd, Mayor of the City of Meridian, do hereby
proclaim Saturday, May 29th, 2004, as American Legion Poppy Day in recognition of
the sacrifices of our veterans and those serving our country today by honoring these
brave men and women, dated this 25th day of May, 2004. 1 present it to Kay Vallerie.
Thank you. Thanks to the American Legion for joining us tonight.
Item 5: Adoption of the Agenda:
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 5 is adoption of the agenda
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would -- we have got a couple of requests here to -- to take Items 9, 10, and 11
and move them to June 8th, 2004, and I do need a number on the resolution in the
Consent Agenda. It's 04 --
De Weerd: 434.
Bird: -- 434. And with that I would move that we accept the revised agenda.
Hawkins -Clark: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Hawkins -Clark.
Hawkins -Clark: I'm sorry, staff didn't get a chance to raise this, but on Item No. 12 and
13, staff would also prefer to have a little more time. There was an item -- an issue that
came up on that last week, which neither myself, nor Mr. McKinnon from Pinnacle were
here at last week's meeting, so we'd prefer to have it deferred, if all possible, for a week
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 3 of 59
to review the minutes. I have talked with him and he's in agreement with that, if the
Council so agrees.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would change my motion, then, to include Items 12 and 13 to be moved to June
1 st, 2004.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the agenda as amended.
Any further discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion
carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 6: Consent Agenda:
A. Approve Minutes of April 20, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting:
B. Approve Minutes of April 27, 2004 Pre -Council Meeting:
C. Approve Minutes of May 11, 2004 City Council Regular Meeting:
D. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: AZ 03-
022 Request for annexation and zoning of 5 acres from RT to C -G
zones for Kissler (Deals Parcell by BRS Architects — southeast
corner of East Ustick Road and North Eagle Road:
E. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: PFP 04-
001 Request for Preliminary Final Plat approval for 3 residential
building lots and 1 common lot on .73 acre in an R-15 zone for Troy
Place Subdivision by PPN, LLC — 1236 East 2 Y2 Street:
F. Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law for Approval: CUP 04-
003 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development
to allow for a multi -family development consisting of 1 tri-plex and 2
four-plexes with reduced street frontage, setbacks and minimum lot
width requirements in an R-15 zone for Troy Place Subdivision by
PPN, LLC —1236 East 2'/z Street:
G. Order Accepting Withdrawl of Application: RZ 04-001 Request
for a Rezone of .353 acres from R-4 to O -T zones for NIDAYS
Addition by Merlyn and Brandon Schmeckpeper — 230 West Pine
Avenue:
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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H. Safety Consulting and Advisory Services — First Link Safety:
I. Resolution No. : City of Meridian's
CARE Statement:
De Weerd: Okay. The Consent Agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda, which includes Resolution 04-434,
the CARE statement for Meridian, and for the Mayor to sign and the clerk to attest on all
proper papers.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve the Consent Agenda,
noting the resolution number. Mrs. Deputy City Clerk, would you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 7: Department Reports:
A. Planning and Zoning Department
1. Discussion of Draft DA with Lamont Kouba and Robnett
Construction, Inc.:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 7 is Department Reports. Item A from the Planning Zoning and
Department. We will begin with item one.
Hawkins -Clark: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. You should have
received in your packet a brief summary on a development agreement that has been
kind of out there pending adoption for -- for several years now. This came through the
city as a Conditional Use Permit a couple of years ago under the project name Bobby's
Transmission and at that time -- this is property on the south side of Fairview, just
immediately south of Ultra Touch Car Wash. There is a little over two acres that's
vacant back there. When that application came through a couple of years ago, it was
discovered that a development agreement was required of the city in '97. Mr. LaMont
Kouba, who was the property owner and remains the property owner today, that was
never entered into, never executed. In order for any development to occur on that two -
acre piece back there, the annexation, essentially, requires that a development
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May 25, 2004
Page 5 of 59
agreement be entered into. So, the reason Mr. Nichols and I had discussed putting this
on the agenda tonight was, essentially, to make the Council aware that we were
proposing this to be put on your Consent Agenda next week, just for adoption, as other
standard development agreements are, but because you hadn't seen it as part of an
annexation or a rezone recently, we just wanted to make you aware that -- the
background of why it was on your -- or why it will be, hopefully, on your Consent
Agenda and the reason that it's come before us right now is Robnett Construction is in
the process of purchasing that property and would like to get a building permit going.
They are also pending a preliminary plat approval or application with Planning and
Zoning right now, which you would see that in several weeks. The main issue, really, in
the development agreement -- a lot of standard language, but it relates to parking stalls
that Ultra Touch Car Wash was required to provide that are, actually, now on this parcel
that is not owned by Ultra Touch Car Wash and the agreement, basically, requires that
this -- that this property to the south provide cross -access and cross -parking for 11
stalls in order to help Ultra Touch Car Wash meet their Conditional Use Permit
requirement for off-street parking. The previous applicant was unable to come to an
agreement with Ultra Touch on that. My understanding is that Robnett is able to
accommodate that and they want proceed. So, I think that's kind of the summary to it. I
guess if the Council's in support of this, we would proceed to put it on the Consent
Agenda in the upcoming meetings.
De Weerd: Council, do you have any questions? Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: So, if I'm just -- so I'm clear, Brad, what you're saying is the requirement was to
have a development agreement, there was some requirement for cross -access dealing
with Ultra Touch -- we have got something like that is what they want to bring forward,
we just have a different property owner than what it was originally required of and that
Bobby's Transmission is no longer -- obviously, moved somewhere else, because they
are now on Meridian Road --
Hawkins-Clark: Right.
Nary: -- with a different property owner, but we are still accomplishing what was
originally intended, just with different players?
Hawkins -Clark: Correct. Actually, Councilman Nary, the players are -- in terms of Mr.
Kouba. is the same.
Nary: Okay.
Hawkins -Clark: But the developer is different.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 6 of 59
Nary: Okay. I don't have any objection to go ahead and bringing that forward.
Rountree: Go ahead and finalize it.
Hawkins -Clark: Great. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further on this item?
2. Discussion of waiver of Appeal fee for Steve
Christianson:
De Weerd: Okay. Brad, I believe the next item is also yours
Hawkins -Clark: Right. I guess I can give just a brief overview of what I understand. I
have to plead a little bit of ignorance on this one. The Planning Director Mrs. Powell is
out, so I'm kind of pinch-hitting here tonight, but, essentially, as I understand it, I believe
the -- Mr. Christianson is here tonight and would like to speak to this matter.
De Weerd: He was --
Hawking-Clark: In Bridgetower Crossing -- I'm sorry
De Weerd: I'm sorry.
Hawkins -Clark: In Bridgetower Crossing there was a fence waiver application that was
submitted to the city to receive a waiver to the 20 foot setback for a six foot fence along
a public street that was submitted by Christine Klose and that fence waiver was -- there
was an opposition letter submitted by a couple of neighbors, in particular, Steve
Christianson, who opposed the variance, saying that the 20 foot should be maintained.
The way that the code is written, fence waivers now, if there is opposition, there is a
hearing that is held, but it's only held -- it's by the planning and zoning administrator and
a representative from the police department and one other person, I believe. That
hearing was scheduled. Mr. Christianson was unable to attend. The hearing
proceeded, the waiver was granted. At this point Mr. Christianson would like to appeal
the decision of that committee, of the fence waiver committee, that granted the appeal.
So, the item for you tonight, as I understand it -- and, Madam Mayor, if you have had
discussions, maybe you could fill me in on this, but it's not to discuss the appeal itself,
it's to discuss a fee that Mr. Christianson was told by our department was -- there was
some confusion about whether or not he would be charged a fee to appeal this decision.
He did pay a 150 -dollar fee for an appeal to our department and is seeking the Council's
permission to basically have the fee waived in order to appeal it. So, I think I'll stop right
there in case I have got a few facts wrong, because I was just updated today on that,
but that's basically my understanding
De Weerd: No, Brad, I think you did a good job and I'm sure Mr. Christianson can fill in
any holes, but he did submit his appeal letter within the appeal time frame and he was
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 7 of 59
told he needed to pay an appeal fee, which he didn't understand at the time the hearing
was made for the fence variance. He had submitted a letter and he felt if he knew that
there was a fee, he would have asked that that meeting be delayed, rather than just
submit a letter. So, is Mr. Christianson here? Okay. Please join us.
Christianson: I'm Steve Christianson. I live in the Bridgetower Subdivision. Thanks for
taking the time to listen to me. I know I have spoken to you Mayor Weerd and -- de
Weerd. I'm sorry. And --
De Weerd: I'm weird.
Nary: She gets that all the time.
Christianson: You guys aren't recording this on TV anywhere?
De Weerd: It is on public record --
Bird: It's on public record.
De Weerd: -- what you just called me, so --
Nary: Watch the 10:00 o'clock news.
Christianson: Let's just strike that reference from the -- strike that from the record here.
The reason for my request of the appeal fee waiver -- or the appeal fee -- he explained
it very well, that we were notified of this Public Hearing on the 22nd, I received a letter in
the mail on the 22nd of April, and I actually called down to the Planning and Zoning
Commission on the 23rd and spoke to Sonya Allen and she said that, you know, I'd
have to speak to Anna Powell about getting the Public Hearing date changed. She first
told me that it could not be changed, because I was out -- I was going to be out of the
country and also my neighbor Kent Scott was also going to be out of town that day, so it
wasn't plans that we could really change on -- especially when we only had about eight
days notice that the hearing was going to be held on April 30th. So, I called Anna and
asked her if it could be changed. She, actually, called me back, left me a voice mail
saying it could not be changed, the dates could not be changed, and that if we wanted
to appeal the decision, then, we could appear in person during the appeal time -- or
appeal hearing and make our case at that time and at no time on that message she
would never say that we had to pay a 150 dollar fee and if I would have known that, I
would have asked -- I would have gone up the ladder a little bit more to have that date
changed. I, actually, even spoke to Tara Green today and she said she never received
a request about any date being changed. So, it made me believe that the date could
have been changed. I feel that the Public Hearing was held and folks who submitted
the application for this fence waiver were present and there is a number of people who
are opposing it. Actually, even got a letter of -- a petition letter signed by the close
attending neighborhoods in the neighborhood that opposes the fence waiver as well. I
just feel that we didn't get our -- excuse the phrase, but we didn't get our time in court to
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 8 of 59
present our case in front of anybody and, you know, they heard one side and didn't hear
the other side and I think you all know, as well as I do, that spoken word is a lot better
than written word, it has a little bit more -- a little bit more -- you know, holds a little bit
more than just writing a letter and submitting it. So, for that reason I would request that
the 150 dollar fee that I paid would be waived in this case, just because we -- if I would
have known that this fee would have been paid, I would have pushed a little bit more to
get the Public Hearing date changed.
De Weerd: Council, any comments? Questions?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: So, I guess I'm still not clear. Did you pay a fee?
Christianson: Uh-huh.
Nary: And you paid a fee to have the hearing?
Bird: No.
Christianson: No. I paid the fee -- I had to pay the fee in order to bring this before you
today.
Nary: Okay.
Christianson: And it --
Nary: You want your 150 dollars back.
Christianson: Yeah. Yeah.
De Weerd: And to appeal
Christianson: And to appeal. Because we never got to make our case in the first place.
No one was able to be present that day. We were only given eight days notice when
the Public Hearing was going to be held. I couldn't -- I was out of the country. I couldn't
change it, it was for work, and he had a weeklong trip planned.
Nary: Did I understand from Mr. Hawkins -Clark, though, that you submitted written
information as to what our opposition was?
Christianson: Yes, we did
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 9 of 59
Nary: Okay. I know we are not here about the appeal itself, but was there some order
or something issued to you? Did they give you something in writing explaining why they
decided whatever they decided?
Christianson: Yeah. Well, they didn't -- I had to request it
Nary: Okay. But they did prepare something in writing explaining why they decided
whatever they decided?
Christianson: Yeah, but there was nothing on there about the appeal process or
anything like that.
Nary: I understand. But in that information doesn't it say they considered the
information you did provide?
Christianson: Yeah. They considered it -- I mean I have talked to -- my brother's a city
manager down in Bakersfield, he's involved with City Council meetings all the time, and
he has talked to other people and they said, you know, if you're there in person to argue
your case, it's a lot better than not being present. It makes a big difference. And I
believe that firmly.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Christianson, you have got a petition here by ten people.
Christianson: Uh-huh.
Bird: Now, all ten of them were out of the country or on vacation or something when
this Public Hearing was --
Christianson: No. Me and Kent Scott were. And I don't know what everyone else's --
Bird: Why couldn't they have come and testified?
Christianson: I think because me and Kent are the two most affected by this, because
we live nearest to the property.
Bird: Okay.
Christianson: Yeah.
Bird: Understand.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 10 of 59
De Weerd: So, the issue in front of you today is to -- is a waiver of the appeal fee, so
they can decide what they would like to do.
Christianson: Yes.
De Weerd: And I don't have the authority to waive fees, so that's why it's in front of you.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Maybe Brad can brief us on the ordinance, the notification period established
in the ordinance, and when and where and why fees are to be assessed.
Hawkins -Clark: Councilman, I'm sorry, was the question why the fees are assessed?
Rountree: No. When and why are fees assessed as the language of the ordinance
states and what kind of notification period does the notice provide.
Hawkins -Clark: Well, on the first matter, you know, the fee would be assessed for an
appeal, essentially, for the processing -- staff time to process the appeal to provide the
research to the Council, write up a report, and to pay for the -- you know, essentially, to
pay for that processing time. The time period on a fence waiver is different than other
public hearings and the notice is sent to all property owners within 200 feet of the
property and the recipients have 15 days to respond in writing and if an opposition letter
is received, then, a hearing is set. If an opposition letter is not received, then, it's the
decision of the planning and zoning administrator to either approve, deny, or approve
with conditions. Does that get to your question?
Rountree: Well, it just creates a couple more questions. There, obviously, was a letter
of opposition sent. Did that trigger the eight-day notification period? Is there a period of
time after a hearing is triggered that has to transpire before the hearing is held?
Hawkins -Clark: Yes, there is
Rountree: Okay.
Hawkins -Clark: Let's see. That is in Section 12-4-10. If the administrator receives
objections, they schedule a hearing no later than seven days. When a hearing is
scheduled, notice of the hearing shall be mailed to the applicant and any person who
has filed objection no later than seven days prior to the hearing.
Christianson: If I may add, if that's the case, I -- we made -- I mailed our appeal letter
on April 1 st. We didn't receive notice until the 22nd. I have my letter that I sent to them,
the original letter, and I also have the date of the appeal letter. The appeal letter was
the on -- I mean of the notice of Public Hearing. The date showed April 20th and we
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May 25, 2004
Page 11 of 59
received it in the mail on the 22nd. So, unless I'm misunderstanding, it wasn't within the
seven days as well.
Rountree: I think the understanding -- Madam Mayor? The understanding is that you
receive notice and had it a minimum of seven days.
Christianson: Oh, a minimum. Okay. I'm sorry. I misunderstood there.
Rountree: So --
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, I know -- and I know this is putting you on the spot, so it's good for you to
fill in tonight. It appears to me from what you have read that the city did comply with the
time limits in the ordinance; is that correct? At least from what you have read. I know --
I know you haven't had a lot of time to look at it, but it appears from the timing of these
things, the hearing was set eight days out from when this notice was received, it was,
actually, ten days from when the letter was sent. It requires to set it at least seven days
beyond and the law only requires five.
Hawkins -Clark: Right.
Nary: For court notices, anyway. So, is there -- is there a method in there to request
an extension or whether or not that's a discretionary decision on the part of the
administrator or does it even speak to it at all.
Hawkins -Clark: I do not believe the fence waiver chapter of Title 12 addresses that.
Nary: Okay. I guess for me, Mr. Christianson, you know, if the process was followed
and what you told me was that the information you received was that -- the information
you provided was considered, then, at least for me I don't have -- I don't have any
reason to agree to waive the fee.
Christianson: Okay.
Nary: If it's a process you don't agree with and you don't agree with the outcome, the
process is an appeal.
Christianson: Sure
Nary: But to waive the fee for the appeal when we have followed all the process that
the code requires, because you couldn't personally be there, isn't good enough.
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May 25, 2004
Page 12 of 59
Christianson: Okay. If I may add, if it's all right, I spoke with Anna Powell and Sonya
Allen from the Planning and Zoning Commission several times and I wanted to know
about the appeal process -- or the process of the public hearing and everything and
they said I'd receive a notice in the mail and that's when I received this notice on the
22nd. I understand that the fire chief and the Planning and Zoning Commission and the
applicant for the fence waiver, their schedules were all checked and none of the
opposition -- the opponents to this matter, their schedule was not checked. I just
thought it would have been fair to have everybody's schedule checked, because I had a
Powerpoint presentation ready to present at this Public Hearing, there was a lot of
people who were planning to attend that were on this petition. This petition,
unfortunately, wasn't able to be submitted, because I was told I could bring people with
me to the Public Hearing. Now, when I found out that the Public Hearing was made on
April 30th, I immediately called the next day and I asked and the way it came across to
me that there was no chance of it being changed and I thought it should be a little bit
more fairer process to have -- you know, try to find a -- you know, a compromise to have
both me and Mr. Scott attend the hearing, because not only, number one, this is a
safety issue that we are dealing with on the -- a corner lot, it also deals with, you know --
you know, being able to be, you know, in a fair situation to be able to present our case
and I thought that was taken away from us by not allowing the date to be changed. So,
that's why I'm a little bit insistent about this. If I would have known -- from the very
beginning she never mentioned to me -- she even put in her e-mail that she put to me,
which I have a copy of it here, she said I'm sorry about the confusion and
misunderstanding we had, because they failed to mention to me about -- they
mentioned to me everything about the appeal process, except for the 150 dollars.
That's why I said, okay, I'm not going to worry about getting the Public Hearing date
changed. I mean I said, okay, I can make my case on an appeal. But I wasn't given the
opportunity to do it when the other people were given the opportunity. All I'm asking for
is a fair opportunity to present my case without paying a fee, because the people who
submitted the application for the fence waiver got that right and I didn't.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess, Mr. Christianson, I'm certainly not trying to say that -- at least for me to
make any judgment as to whether or not the process was appropriate or whether or not
you had a full and fair hearing or all of those things. The issue -- all that we have is
whether or not we should waive the fee. At this juncture, you haven't given at least me
enough to waive the fee. The purpose of the fee is to get the staff work done for us to
able to -- assist us in making a decision. That has to be done regardless of what your
position is. At the end of the day, I guess, for me, in disposition, unless someone tells
us differently, I don't know that we can't return your fee as part of the disposition --
Christianson: That was my other question
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May 25, 2004
Page 13 of 59
Nary: -- if that's what we choose to do. But at this juncture, the staff work and the time
that goes into it to prepare this appeal still has to get done and the fact that a lot of what
you're talking about to me is your unhappiness with our process and it how works and
how it impacted your presentation and your opportunity for a full hearing, that is
something, as part this appeal, that we would likely consider, but at least for me today,
you haven't at least convinced me that we would waive the cost of what the appeal is.
Christianson: I'm sorry I haven't persuaded you enough, but I just think out of a matter
of courtesy that it at least could have been considered and it was never considered, the
date change. I requested that and it wasn't even considered at all. I think if the
applicant had a chance to request -- you know, let me give you a scenario. If we appeal
this and win it, they can also appeal it, the applicant. So, they are going to have to pay
the fee; right? Is that the case? That's from my conversation with the Planning and Zone
Commission. They would have the right to appeal.
Nary: Well, I guess maybe Mr. Nichols might have to answer that for us, but they
would -- I mean they could appeal to the court, but they are not going to appeal to
anybody else. We would make the final decision.
Christianson: No, that's not the case -
Nary: Unless I'm --
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is an appeal that goes to the
planning commission and if -- whatever the decision is at the planning commission can,
then, be appealed to you.
Nary: You didn't say that.
Christianson: Sorry, I --
Nary: Not you.
Christianson: Oh. Okay.
Nichols: So -- because this isn't a -- this appeal that Mr. Christianson has filed is an
appeal of the action of the administrator. So, therefore, it goes to the Commission and
that decision, then, can be appealed to you. So, there could be another level of appeal
yet again. And whoever would appeal that would also have to pay the fee. And I
believe that part of the reason for the fee is associated with the mailings and so forth
that go out and the staff time and so forth that goes into these, but that's the process
that I see in 11-1-11.
De Weerd: Is there any further questions, Council?
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May 25, 2004
Page 14 of 59
Rountree: I have no more questions.
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Anything further you would like to --
Christianson: Yeah. Just one thing. If the Council decided not to approve the waiver for
this application, if I do successfully appeal, is my application fee refunded for the -- for
the appeal?
De Weerd: No, sir. That's the fee you pay to get it on the agenda and to get the public
noticing done.
Christianson: For that reason -- that's just the main reason I'm trying to fight this. You
know, if I just had my chance to have them hear us and hear me and the, you know, ten
other people in the community, I -- you know, they got a chance to make the application
fee free and that's the only reason I'm asking for the same.
Rountree: No, they didn't.
Christianson: Oh, they didn't?
De Weerd: There is a fee.
Christianson: Okay. My misunderstanding there. But I wanted to just have the right to
be able to pose it and give my case without having to appeal it and do it in person.
That's the only thing I'm trying to request here.
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Mr. Christianson, one of the
unfortunate things is I think you're the first appeal of a fence waiver decision and so
when we -- at least in the last four years you're the first one I have seen.
Rountree: There were some previous to that.
Nichols: So, it's been awhile since any have been done and so the changes that were
made in the fence waiver ordinance a year or so ago were sort of made in -- you know,
it's kind of like the academic exercise, and so, certainly, the Council would consider your
issues in terms of whether any adjustments need to be made to the appeal ordinance
and those kinds of things in the future.
Christianson: Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you.
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May 25, 2004
Page 15 of 59
De Weerd: Thank you.
Rountree: Do we need an action?
De Weerd: I believe we need an action, Council.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I think we only need an action if we wanted to approve the waiver. If we don't
want to approve the waiver, then, I don't know that we need an action.
De Weerd: I guess that's an action in and of itself.
Rountree: I concur we don't need an action.
De Weerd: Okay. I guess the lack of action is your answer
Nary: I mean unless Mr. Nichols thinks we need, for the record, an actual motion to
deny his request.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I hate to sound like a bureaucrat, but I
don't think there was an application for a fee waiver and I don't think you have such an
animal, but just to make the record clear, to vote up or down, you also might consider
whether in your motion refund of the fee if the appeal is granted by the planning
commission, whether that's anything you want to consider or not.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess based on that, I would move to deny the request to waive the appeal fee
by Mr. Steve Christianson in regards to this appeal matter that's before the Planning
and Zoning Commission.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded. Is there any further discussion? All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
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May 25, 2004
Page 16 of 59
De Weerd: So, I imagine that the appeal process will move forward. You can contact
the Planning and Zoning Department or -- and they will let you know. Okay. Or they
will contact you. Thank you.
Item 8: (Items Moved from Consent Agenda)
Item 9: Continued Public Hearing from May 11, 2004: AZ 03-038 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 21.38 acres from C-2 to C -G zones for
proposed Mussell Corner Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. —
northeast corner of East Victory Road and South Meridian Kuna Highway:
Item 10: Continued Public Hearing from May 11, 2004: PFP 03-007 Request for
Preliminary Final Plat approval of 4 commercial building lots on 21.38
acres in a proposed C -G zone for proposed Mussell Corner Subdivision
by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. — Northeast corner of East Victory Road and
South Meridian Kuna Highway:
Item 11: Continued Public Hearing from May 11, 2004: CUP 03-071 Request for
a Conditional Use Permit for a Planned Development to allow the
construction of a combination feed store and gas station / convenience
store on one of the proposed lots and to allow the existing commercial and
residential uses to remain and the property for proposed Mussell Corner
Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. - Northeast corner of East
Victory Road and South Meridian Kuna Highway:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 9, 10 and 11 have been asked to be tabled to June 8th. They
are continued public hearings. So, those public hearings are still open, but I would
entertain a motion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we continue Items 9, 10, and 11, Mussell Corner Subdivision be
continued to June 8th, 2004.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Thank you. It's been moved and seconded to continue Items 9, 10, and 11
to June 8, 2004. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 12: Continued Public Hearing from May 18, 2004: AZ 04-006 Request for
Annexation and Zoning of 3.06 acres from RUT to L -O zone for proposed
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May 25, 2004
Page 17 of 59
Southstone Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. — Northeast corner
of South Eagle Road and East Girdner Lane:
Item 13: Continued Public Hearing from May 18, 2004: PP 04-008 Request for
Preliminary Plat approval of 8 commercial building lots on 3.06 acres in a
proposed L -O zone for proposed Southstone Subdivision by Pinnacle
Engineers, Inc. — Northeast corner of South Eagle Road and East Girdner
Lane:
De Weerd: Items 12 and 13 have also been asked to continue until June 1st, 2004.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd; Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move we continue Items 12 and 13, public hearings for Southstone
Subdivision until June 1st, 2004.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue Items 12 and 13 to June
1 st, 2004. All those in favor way aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 14: Public Hearing: AZ 04-003 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 16.73
acres from RUT to R-8 zones for proposed Javdan Village Subdivision
by Packard Estates, LLC — 5325 West Ustick Road:
Item 15: Public Hearing: PP 04-002 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 75
residential building lots and 8 common lots on 16.73 acres in a proposed
R-8 zone for proposed Javdan Village Subdivision by Packard Estates,
LLC — 5325 West Ustick Road:
Item 16: Public Hearing: CUP 04-004 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development with request for reduction to the minimum
requirements for lot size, street frontage, and front yard setbacks for side
entry garages for proposed Javdan Village Subdivision by Packard
Estates, LLC — 5325 West Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Items 14, 15 and 16 are all regarding the same project. If there is no
opposition, I will go ahead and open all three items for Public Hearing, AZ 04-003, PP
04-002, and CUP 04-004. 1 will open the Public Hearing with staff comments.
Hawkins -Clark: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The annexation
request before you is property approximately 17 acres located here on the south side of
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May 25, 2004
Page 18 of 59
West Ustick Road. The property has Autumn Faire Subdivision to the east here. As
you can see, the rest of the area — this is on the extreme western edge of the Meridian
city limits. The request is to annex just this portion that is shown outlined here. The
applicant, is my understanding, does not -- does not own the balance of the property, so
they are requesting an annexation and a zoning to R-8. The Planning and Zoning
Commission did recommend approval of that. The aerial shows you there is an existing
farm house and a barn that is, actually, on the Ada County survey for historic structures
that is also on the property. The plat that they are proposing is shown here. The
access is a single point off of Ustick Road, generally right in the middle of their parcel
here. They, essentially, have a loop road system. There is a stub street that they are
utilizing out of Autumn Faire that is being proposed to be extended. This is the revised
plat that's shown here and it does show you that they -- a modification that was done
after the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing. The sewer -- sanitary sewer for the
project originally looped down to the south end and to the north and they were
potentially going to need to provide quite a bit of fill to get the north end of this site to
sewer correctly. So, the alternative route that they choose was to add a common lot
right here in the middle of this block that will run an eight inch sewer main through that
and, apparently, according to the engineers that's going to work. I think it's also nice it
does break up this block a little bit. The main question that was remaining on the
Planning and Zoning Commission hearing was how they will address their Ustick Road
future right of way. Steve Siddoway's cover memo, I think, touched on that and Mr.
Brown, Kent Brown, has stated that they are intending to show future right of way, place
that in a common lot that will be held by the homeowners association until such time as
Ada County Highway District -- they need to acquire that right of way. They would
construct a sidewalk on the back edge of that future right of way, so that's how they are
proposing to address that. Let's see. They have also a Conditional Use Permit. One of
the amenities, as this slide shows, their common area is here on the north end, they are
proposing both a swimming pool and a cabana as amenities to the project. The
planned development -- let's see. The reason for the planned development is minimum
lot frontage 52 feet, which, normally, is 65 and a minimum lot size of 5,460 feet, which
normally is 6,500. Those are the two exceptions that they were seeking under the
planned development and, then, the amenities I mentioned. So, here is a couple of
elevations of the houses that they are proposing to construct in the project. There are a
couple of lots -- several lots, I believe, that have also reduced front setback that would
have side loaded garages, which is reflected on this here -- this slide. And, then, the
barn that's on the property is shown here. My understanding is that they did have a
structural engineer come out and take a look at that barn. It is a nice barn. If you have
seen Ada County's poster of all the historic barns in Ada County, that one is, actually,
on that poster. Unfortunately, the structural engineer determined that they would
probably have to spend more money than is my understanding that would really be
worth to keep that safe for public occupancy. But maybe Mr. Brown can give us more
detail on that. That's it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any questions for staff at this time? Okay. This is the public hearing
portion of our public -- or our meeting tonight. Any of those people who are wanting to
provide testimony, I would like to swear you all in in one big event. So, Ms. Bowcutt -- if
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May 25, 2004
Page 19 of 59
you will, please, raise your right hand. All who would like to provide testimony. Is the
testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so
help you God? If so, answer I will.
(Affirmative answers.)
De Weerd: Thank you. If the applicant would like to step forward. And since I saw you
go through this exercise, if you would just state your name and address.
Brown: Kent Brown, business address 1800 West Overland in Boise, Idaho. We have
gone through many changes on this site over the period of time. I know that our firm
has been working on it close to a year. Some of the changes have to do with directly to
the west of us is one of your neighborhood centers and so we are supposed to
transition to the density that you would require around one of those neighborhood
centers. We looked at optioning the ground to the west of us and felt that we could
maybe do that, but this is as far as we can extend the sewer and so the sewer capability
with it coming out of the ground just makes it so that this is, basically, all that we can do
at this time and so that's been a concern all along. This is a project that I just recently
received, but I'm very familiar with it and what we are trying to accomplish. We did have
a structural engineer look at the barn. My clients really did want to make that some kind
of amenity for the homeowners association, but when we started looking at how it's built
and making it safe, basically, you'd almost have to lock it up, so that you couldn't ever
go inside of it. We tried to do something like some of the other developments. There is
one over in Eagle where they made a barn and use that as a common area, kind of a
center, and the difficulty is just you basically almost had to take it completely apart to
make it so that it was safe and, then, lock and make it impossible for anybody to go into
the second level of the barn. So, it just kind of priced it out and my clients really wanted
to make that work, because they really did like the barn. The existing house will stay on
the site. But they did come up with an alternative and that was with the pool and
cabana, so they have a pool and --
De Weerd: Mr. Brown, if you could put that so everyone can see that. Council, you can
see that?
Brown: And that is located there in the north portion. We felt that that was a
reasonable amenity and Planning and Zoning Commission did, too. We are in
agreement with all the conditions both of the annexation, conditional use, and the
preliminary plat. That the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended. And I'd
stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
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May 25, 2004
Page 20 of 59
Wardle: Just so I can understand, what's the definition of a cabana?
Brown: A cabana is like an awning or shelter that provides -- like a restroom for the
swimming pool, like a little changing room, kind of typical of what we are seeing in a lot
of the developments that we are doing that are putting these pools in.
De Weerd: No, not a restroom like we think of it, like a bathroom.
Brown: Right.
De Weerd: But just a place where you can go rest.
Brown: A changing room or -- sounds like an old Mork and Mindy thing.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: This is for my education and I don't know if it's Mr. Brown or Mr.
Hawkins -Clark that can answer this question, but we have an application for a rezone to
R-8 and, then, we have a preliminary plat for an R-8 and, then, we have a Conditional
Use Permit for a planned unit development or planned development and it seems to me
with the rezone to R-8 you get the smaller lots and, then, you want more and, then, you
ask for the planned development, so you can get all the variances that may or may not
come with the planned development. My question is probably more for Brad than you,
Mr. Brown, isn't that a way to get the best of all worlds for the developer and not
necessarily for the community?
Brown: I would be happy to speak to that one, but --
De Weerd: Well, we'll have Brad --
Rountree: I'll ask Brad and, then, you can speak to it as well.
Hawkins -Clark: Councilman Rountree, Members of the Council, the intent that the
ordinance was written for was to provide for more creativity, more flexibility, more
opportunities for developers to take a piece of land and do some more unique design,
creative things with that piece of property. I mean that's really what it's for. The idea
behind the amenities is one that's subjective and that this Council and the Commission
have struggled with off and on for a long time. I guess the theory is that if they get to
reduce those R-8 standards by a little bit, they provide some amenities that are
generally equivalent to the breaks that they get and we find as staff that sometimes the
amenities they propose are not in concert with the breaks that they get and sometimes
they are and they would only be required to provide five percent open space with
nothing else, if they did a straight R-8 subdivision. That they would not be required to
do the swimming pool or the cabana and they could reduce the amount of open space
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May 25, 2004
Page 21 of 59
that you see there by a little bit. So, I think that's one of the advantages to it. Certainly,
I agree, if I hear the leaning of your question, that it can be a tool that is abused. I don't
think that's the case here.
Rountree: Go ahead.
De Weerd: Mr. Brown.
Brown: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree -- and I can agree that it can be abused,
but there are great advantages in a planned unit development that provides for some
creativity that sometimes the zoning doesn't allow. We are asking for ten -foot front yard
setbacks, when we are not having the garages or the front of the garage face that
direction. By allowing more flexibility, you come up with a different housing product.
Being able to have the garages in the rear and some of those other things provides for a
more non -typical housing development that provides some uniqueness and some
character to it. To do a planned unit development or a PUD, you double what a
standard subdivision has for open space, and providing amenities on top of that. And
so that's why some of those allowances lot -wise accommodate some of that, to help pay
for the construction of those amenities and that's what makes developers want to do
that.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: How could you not believe someone with an, I voted sticker on his shirt,
too?
Rountree: I didn't ask him who he voted for.
De Weerd: I'm glad you exercised your American right.
Rountree: About the only time I can do something with political officials that gives me
any power or authority.
De Weerd: Thank you for your additional comments. Any further questions for Mr.
Brown?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Mr. Brown, just, again, so I'm clear, how much -- how much more open space is
there or how much -- I saw it here at one point, it says 5.9 and at another point it says
7.65. So, tell me the amenities. Here is the pool, the cabana, and more open space
and how much more open space was it?
Brown: Now, Brad can correct me, but aren't you required with a PUD to have ten?
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May 25, 2004
Page 22 of 59
Hawkins -Clark: No. You're required to do -- if you do ten -percent, that would count as
one of your amenities.
Brown: Okay.
Hawkins -Clark: They have 7.65 percent, so they have 2.65 percent more.
Nary: More than are R-8.
Hawkins -Clark: Right.
Nary: And the amenity is -- so, that 7.65 is not the amenity, it's the pool --
Brown: And the cabana.
Nary: And the cabana. But that of kind goes with the pool. You can't put a cabana in a
park.
Brown: Right. Exactly.
Nary: Okay.
Bird: You can.
Nary: Well, you can, but it's not meant to --
De Weerd: Then, it's just a shelter.
Bird: You can put a basketball court in a swale.
Brown: Put a basketball hoop at the end of the pool and there is your second one. How
is that?
Nary: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Thank you, Mr. Brown. Okay. I have a
Kathleen Denny signed up. If you could, please, state your name and address for the
record.
Denny: It's Kathleen Denny, 3009 West Wilder.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Denny: I have some concerns about the size of the -- the number of houses on this
development for the size of the property. It just seems like the houses are right on top --
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May 25, 2004
Page 23 of 59
going to be right on top of each other, you're not going to have any street space. If they
are having sewage problems already and the houses aren't even developed, what good
is it going to be putting 75 houses there? You got one access going in and out -- it just
doesn't make a whole lot of sense. It's too much for too small of an area. Can the
property be expanded? Larger lots? I mean the amenities are nice, that may draw
people, but once you get into the neighborhood and find out that your next door
neighbor is right there, how many people are going to be wanting to stay there. My
family and I moved up here to get away from the California style of home developments
where your neighbors are right there and you can hear everything going on in their
homes, even with the sound proof windows and everything and it just doesn't make
sense that all this development is coming in the way that it is. The developments that
I'm seeing, they are standing for two years, some going on three that are small, but still
have vacant houses. The housing development that we live in has 59 homes in it and
we have large lots, compared to, I guess, a lot of them. But still we are not at a hundred
percent capacity and that development has been there at least two years. They are just
now building the final home. But there are still vacant homes in there. Do we need this
amount of homes going up and in this tight of quarters? Is there that big of a demand?
De Weerd: I guess that is a risk for the developer, isn't it? Do you have questions for
Mrs. Denny? Do you have anything further?
Denny: Well, I know that we just moved up here last June and we had our grandchildren
up with us and it was the first time they had an opportunity to see farm animals,
because in Sacramento they don't have them. They are way out numbered by the
houses and that was one of the things that drew us up here and I just don't want to see
it destroyed.
De Weerd: Well, thank you.
Denny: Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this application?
Thank you. Mr. Brown.
Brown: I think as you look at developments, you're seeing lots of different kinds of
homes. I know, typically, a number of years ago -- and I have heard a particular City
Councilman that's no longer here speak about that, you know, 8,000 -- or 8,000 square
foot lots, 80 by 100, you know, that they didn't want to just see all of those anymore.
And what my clients are -- the feedback that I'm getting is that two-thirds of the people
that are buying are empty nesters. Not everybody wants to be able to take care of a
yard and as what we are doing in the industry is providing different lot sizes and trying
to put those for those different houses and different -- different people's needs and
wants and in this particular area this is the one that we feel will do the best and
complies with your Comprehensive Plan for that mixed use community to the west of us.
A portion of the site is covered with that same designation as put in those facts and
findings in the annexation conditions and that's all I have to say.
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May 25, 2004
Page 24 of 59
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions? Okay. Thank you.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Brad, could you put up -- you had like an area map showing the location of this
parcel. That's good. And the subdivision, then, to the east of this parcel, is that an R-4
or is that an R-8?
Bird: That's an R-8.
Nary: That's an R-8 right there?
Bird: Yeah.
Hawkins -Clark: No. I think it's R-4. Autumn Faire is R-4.
Nary: R-4? Autumn Faire? Okay.
Hawkins -Clark: Tricia's Subdivision, Autumn Faire is R-4.
Nary: Okay. All right. Thank you.
De Weerd: Brad Watson, I guess I did want you to at least address the sewer
statement, that we are not out of capacity and how this fits within those sewer plans.
Watson: Madam Mayor, Council Members, this property is just at the farthest western
most extent of how far the sewer can gravity flow back to the east. That's as much of
that parcel as they can develop and make the gravity conform to slopes and depths as
possible. If it goes any farther west, then, it will out come up out of the ground or they
have to fill or -- there is not a problem with this parcel being sewered.
De Weerd: And coming up out of the ground does not mean the sewage comes up out
of the ground; correct?
Watson: No. No. I guess that's a colloquialism that we use in the engineering
department.
De Weerd: I thought maybe it would be nice to have that clarified.
Watson: Thank you.
De Weerd: So, that's just the pipe. And the properties, then, to the west of that would
be in a different sewer trunk line that would have a different line to it?
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May 25, 2004
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Watson: Correct. It would be in the McDermott trunk area.
De Weerd: Okay. Okay. Council, what would you like to do? Mr. Nichols?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, if I may ask a question of Brad. This revised plat that shows a
revision date of 5/20/04 takes into account the concern about how the right of way was
going to be handled; is that correct?
Hawkins -Clark: That's correct.
Nichols: Okay. So, that issue on that cover sheet to the Council has been resolved by
this revision?
Hawkins -Clark: Right. Yeah. As long as it's -- you refer to that last date of received by
the clerk 5/21 that would cover that concern.
Nichols: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, what would you like to do?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Hearing no further discussion, I would move that we close the public hearings for
14, 15 and 16, the Jaydan Village Subdivision.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearings on Items
14, 15, and 16. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Any discussion or comments?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I guess I'll make a comment and I -- I have no problem with the subdivision. I
mean it's -- you know, it's about 4.4 units per acre. It is different. I understand -- I
understand the one person who was concerned and -- about the change, but this is their
property, I mean they can tear their barn down if they want to. I mean they can stop
farming their property if they choose to. So, how it gets developed -- this is consistent
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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with our Comprehensive Plan, it is a variety of housing, which is what we seek. It does
have some higher densities, but this is a pretty small piece of property, I mean 16 acres
and 75 homes is really not a lot in comparison to what else we have looked at. The
amenities are okay. The pools are nice and that park is nice and all of those things. I
think they are adequate. Some of the setbacks don't concern me. You know, we have
a variety of R -8's now, with some variety in them, and that's what we have asked for. I
looked at that other site plan that they had -- I mean, obviously, Mr. Brown and Briggs
have been listening. I saw islands in both of the main streets; they have a fairly good
size green space. They have got an amenity with a pool, they have got the stub streets,
so they have connectivity to other subdivisions -- I mean I think they have covered,
really, the things that we really hit on all the time with the developers. So, I mean I
really -- I understand exactly where you're coming from, but it really does fit with the
other things that we have asked people to do. It's their property and we have asked
people to do it this way and I think this really hits all of those things. So, I have no
objection to it.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further comment? Okay.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Hearing no other, I guess, discussion, I would move that we approve Item No.
14, AZ 04-003, annexation and zoning for Jaydan Village Subdivision.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 14. Is there any further
discussion? Would you like to call roll?
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Thank you. Item 15.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve PP 04-002, preliminary plat for Jaydan Village
Subdivision, dated 5/21/04 and to include all staff and applicant comments.
Nary: Second.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 27 of 59
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 15. Is there any
further discussion? Mrs. Deputy Clerk, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Item 16.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I move that we approve Item No. 16, CUP 04-004, Conditional Use Permit for
Jaydan Village Subdivision.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 16. Is there any
further discussion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have a comment, though I'm not going to oppose this. This is becoming
desperately close, in my opinion, to lack creativity that is to be obtained with the
Conditional Use Permit for planned development, in terms of what I would evaluate
creativity. So, just for the record.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would concur with Councilman Rountree. I think this is a around -the -skirt way of
getting some changes in there on doing -- its either a PUD or it's an R-8 and I agree
with what Councilman Rountree stated.
De Weerd: Any further comments? Do we have a motion?
Rountree: Yes. And a second.
De Weerd: Oh, yeah. This was discussion. It was so long ago.
Rountree: I'll move for the question.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded, with discussion, to approve CUP 04-
004. Ms. Deputy Clerk, will you call roll?
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 17: Public Hearing: AZ 04-004 Request for annexation and zoning of 34.6
acres from RUT to I -L, L -O, and C -G zones for proposed McNelis
Subdivision by Falcon Creek, LLC — northwest corner of North Ten Mile
Road and West Ustick Road:
Item 18: Public Hearing: PP 04-004 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 16
commercial building lots and 5 common lots on 34.6 acres in proposed I -L,
L -O, and C -G zones for proposed McNelis Subdivision by Falcon Creek,
LLC — northwest corner of North Ten Mile Road and West Ustick Road:
De Weerd: Thank you. Items 17 and 18, 1 will open those two, for AZ 04-004, PP 04-
004 -- boy, there is a lot of 04-004's tonight, isn't there. And I will start with the staff
comments.
Hawkins -Clark: I agree. Thank you. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this
application does have two hearings tonight, one for the annexation, and one for the
preliminary plat. The property is no stranger to the Council, particularly those that were
here a couple years ago, known as Utility Subdivision, then. They have changed the
name to McNelis Subdivision. The application now is requesting three different zones
on this property that's at the northwest corner of Ustick and Ten Mile. The area is
designated -- there is approximately 430 some odd acres around the wastewater
treatment plant on the Comp Plan designated wastewater -- Mixed Use Wastewater
Treatment Plant. This does fall within that and the staff report, I think, did a good job of
kind of summarizing some of the history on that and what the Comprehensive Plan
envisions for uses around the wastewater\ treatment plant. The property is still in Ada
County. The surrounding uses include an Idaho Power transmission substation area
immediately to the north here. This little out parcel. The Hartford Subdivision is to the
east, as well as an out parcel that's located across the street from one of the proposed
entrances. Inglewood Creek Estates to the south. And, then, to the west there are a
couple of single-family homes. The Nine Mile Creek does run along the west and the
Five Mile Creek along the north, so it does have two pretty large irrigation facilities to
deal with on the layout here. The Planning and Zoning Commission did recommend
approval of the rezone and this does show the properties -- or the lots that -- the layout,
as well as the zoning that they are looking for. The light industrial uses are shown here
on the north end adjacent to the city property, which is also, zoned light industrial. And,
then, they have several professional office, limited office lots down here in the south and
to the west and, then, on the corner they are looking for general commercial. There is
an existing residence on the property that's on Ten Mile Road in this location. The plat
is proposing a new public street that would be designed to commercial standards,
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May 25, 2004
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basically looping through. They are also proposing a -- all of the required -- to construct
the required landscape buffers on the public streets, as well as internally you can see
the buffers between land uses, which our landscape ordinance requires between
industrial uses and office uses and commercial uses and office uses, so these -- that's
the internal buffers that you see there. As far as the creeks, they are proposing to
construct multi -use pathways along both facilities. Obviously, we have our parks
director Mr. Strong here tonight if you have any questions on that, but the way that the
condition is worded is, essentially, to construct those. They will be the maintenance
responsible of the City of Meridian. There was some discussion at the Planning and
Zoning Commission about the design standards for those multi -use pathways. The
layout that they have shown here would actually -- you would have a fence and, then,
landscaping and, then, a ten foot wide pathway and, then, a shoulder, which the parks
department is asking to be gravel, so that they can run, typically, as far as their arms on
their sprayers for maintenance, that's how they prefer to maintain those. And, then, you
would have the top of bank and, then, on down. So, that's the same on both Five Mile
and Nine Mile. So, the fence, actually, is on the inside of the property and, then, the
pathway is nearer to the top of the bank. I think there are just a couple of issues to
point out as far as the proposed conditions that the Planning and Zoning Commission
forwarded on to you. We did receive a letter dated today from Becky McKay at
Engineering Solutions that goes over the recommended conditions on these two
applications. I think there is mainly two issues to be discussed tonight. One is the
development agreement that was recommended on this project excluded convenience
stores and gas stations as allowed uses and that would be down here in this C -G area.
They are asking for that to be reinstated and that those two uses be allowed to be
considered on this property. There was testimony both for and against, by the way, at
the Planning and Zoning Commission hearing from the public for this -- for this project.
Then, the second issue that I think is -- you're going to hear about in the hearing relates
to the access points and Craig Hood, a planner in our office, put this slide together that I
think kind of summarizes what the issues are. Again, Ustick Road on the south. Ten
Mile. The Planning and Zoning Commission recommended and ACHD approved -- and,
actually, they applied for just one access on Ustick Road, in addition to the new street.
They are proposing two accesses on Ten Mile Road, in addition to the new street. So,
Ten Mile would have the two driveways, plus the public street, and Ustick would have
one driveway, plus the public street. Ada County Highway District did approve -- on Ten
Mile Road they did approve both of these commercial driveway access points, as well
as the street. The issue was raised up by staff at the Commission that there is a finding
that the city has to make -- are the proposed vehicular access points to a project safe.
And Craig's analysis was that -- that you have this existing house that has a circular
driveway on the east side of Ten Mile and, as you can see, that's generally right in
between the two new proposed access points for these two black boxes here. On a 50
mile an hour roadway, the highway district's policy says that you have to have your
driveways full access driveways, 255 feet -- yeah, 255 feet apart from each other and if
you factor in the distances here, they -- it is less -- the southern one is proposed to be
right in, right out only. However, the northerly one would be a full access point and, of
course, you have the driveways on the side and 375 feet from there to the new street.
So, there is, obviously no issues between the northerly driveway and the new street.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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The issue is whether or not this is congested and imagining Ten Mile at build out, if that
many access points is potentially a hazard or not. The argument from Mrs. McKay is
that the city doesn't have standards that are published or available or ordinances that
deal with driveways and -- in terms of the offsets on streets. It's a highway district issue
and the city should not get in that business. However, I do think that there is some
room for the city to look at traffic and particularly vehicular access points into new
subdivisions that we are approving in terms of the public safety. So, I think that's --
that's the argument that was made. The P&Z Commission did agree with staff. They
said only one access -- one driveway access on Ten Mile, so there would be,
essentially, one on each, plus the new street. Are there any questions?
De Weerd: No. Just I had this feeling of deja vu when we were told we had nothing to
do with streets and I agree with your statement on safety is our business and appreciate
that. Any questions for staff?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yeah. Brad, could you put up the other -- the site plan? So, is there -- is there an
access point from those -- from those -- the commercial piece or those light office
pieces to that street or is it just to the light office pieces that are abutting that street have
access? There is no -- there is no common drive or anything that accesses that little cut
out for commercial?
Hawkins -Clark: I'm sorry, I'm guess I'm going to have to refer to Mrs. McKay for that. I
don't know.
Nary: Basically, this portion here --
Hawkins-Clark: Right.
Nary: -- there is no -- the access point is here and here?
Hawkins -Clark: Right.
Nary: And -- or maybe just here for this piece? There is no other point into this piece?
Hawkins -Clark: Of course, this is the survey only that we are dealing with or the plat.
It's not a development site plan.
Nary: Sure. Okay.
Hawkins -Clark: So, it doesn't preclude it, but it does appear as they have drawn it out
that that's kind of how they intend that to develop out, but it doesn't mean that they
couldn't provide that.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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Nary: Sure. Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Any further questions? Thank you. Would the applicant like to step
forward? Please state your name and address for the record.
McKay: Becky McKay, Engineering Solutions, 150 East Aikens, Suite B, Eagle.
Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, as Brad indicated, this was a very controversial
project when it came through the first time.
De Weerd: Becky, I will ask you to put it on the easel. And we should have a pointer --
a laser pointer up there or -- or you can stay over there.
McKay: Now I can wander around. Just to refresh your memory, this was proposed as
a -- I think a bus barn for Meridian School District. They also -- the trash company
wanted to have a transfer center here. And so it was a highly contentious few public
hearings that took place on this project. The Council at that time told the owners and
applicants to -- that those particular uses were too intensive for this property,
considering the location adjoining single family residential and, then, the -- abutting the
sewer treatment facility and that that kind of prompted the city to come up with this
wastewater treatment plant overlay, specifying certain types of mixtures of uses that
would be appropriate for this particular area. In your Comprehensive Plan you guys
inserted discussions or language recommending light professional office uses, flex
space, including light warehousing, no new residential uses, limited to small scale retail
uses, and mini storages. So, what we did is this group came back -- came to me and
said, you know, our experience was very poor the first time, could you meet with the
city, do a neighborhood meeting, get input from those two entities, and give us your
recommendations on what appropriate uses would be on this property. So, we did -- we
come up with the concept of doing a little bit of a mixture, because the property is 39 --
like 34 acres in size, so it's pretty large. We came up with -- we got -- Mr. Crane lives
here, so we have got a residential use here. We came up with like an L -O use adjoining
him. The exposure to the treatment plant is here on this northern boundary, so we
came up with I -L here and, then, we have also got the Idaho Power substation that's
going to go in here in a year or two and they were very concerned about what our uses
were and how compatible we would be with them. They were relieved when I told them
we had no residential component in this development. Down here, this is L -O and,
then, we had a C -G. If you look at the percentage breakdown of what we are
proposing, we have got approximately 48.8 percent L -O, 43 percent I -L, and 8.1 percent
C -G. So, we leaned real heavy on the L -O and the I -L. The staff recommended that all
uses along the perimeter be conditional use, so that the neighbors would have
opportunity to give the city input and the Council could scrutinize those uses that go in.
So, we are not -- we are not asking for cart blanche here. We also submitted a list of
potential uses, obviously, omitting those that would be offensive or cause some type of
hazard and nuisance in this area. One other thing that we -- that I looked at, by
providing this commercial collector here and creating this loop, we do add capacity to
the intersection, we did do a traffic study. They looked at -- there is going to be a
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May 25, 2004
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certain amount of capture of traffic along this roadway network and that's kind of why we
thought the C -G to be appropriate. In our traffic study they are recommending like
some right turn lanes and center turn lanes into this project. We designed this to meet
all of ACHD's standards. We have one full access here, one right in, right out there, and
one full access here and, then, this public street. To answer Councilman's Nary's
response as far as the interconnectivity, I did do kind of an internal concept and I did
show cross -access coming through this direction. So, that someone could come in the
commercial collector, go to their dentist, pop over to say the drycleaners or a video
store or whatever, without going back out onto the arterial. Now, staff has not included
any language in their conditions referencing cross -access and if the Council views that
as important, that I'd recommend that there be some language in there, you know,
directing some interconnectivity and I always do promote interconnectivity, especially
with a commercial type development. We feel that based on -- on what we have got to
work with and the limitations, we have come up with some good uses. We have mini
storage would be on the very back portion here on our northwest corner and we created
kind of a big lot and, then, narrowed it down here, so they could have a controlled gate
system coming in. The I -L, we see that kind of as flex space, maybe a plumber, an
electrician, somebody that has a small office, warehouse, has a yard, that they would be
a good component there next to the treatment plant. Your treatment plant at some point
in time -- I did the mini storage -- Ten Mile Mini Storage facility above it. It does, as I
think the staff calls it, burp periodically, so that, you know, I had to think of uses that,
obviously, could coexist with that type of facility. Obviously, the intensity or like offices,
you would have more people, but they are further away from the plant and down along
the Ustick and Ten Mile area. The pathway, we are showing that, that's on your
Comprehensive Plan and also in the park's plan. We do show the multi -use pathway
coming along here and wrapping back. The applicant wasn't real excited about the
landscaping, but it is in the landscape ordinance, so, therefore, it is avoidable -- or
unavoidable. I'm sorry. It's getting late. This property -- we even looked at -- we even
met with PAL Soccer, because at the last public hearing people said, well, you know,
why don't you make it a park, why don't -- you know, did you look at ball fields and stuff?
Yes, we did. We contacted PAL Soccer, they came in, my staff and I, we laid out -- we
got their criteria, we laid out ball fields, parking, they had like a vendor area, to see if
this property in this configuration could accommodate that type of use. We did that at
no cost to them and I didn't charge the client for the work either. So, we just did it as
kind of a benefit for them, because I thought that would be a great use. They went to
their lender, they came back, and I talked to the gal and she said we cannot get -- we
can't get the financing. The amount of financing that we can get, it wouldn't even cover
single-family residential property that has no sewer. I mean that's kind of where their
budget was. So, that kind of went out the window. But I just want the Council to know
we did explore different ideas as far as uses on this property. As I told the Planning and
Zoning Commission, there has to be some use -- I mean we can't just draw a circle
around the plant and say these 450 acres, we can have absolutely no uses. We have
got to find something that can coexist with the plant and the neighbors. I worked
diligently with your staff and Anna was very pleased with what we were proposing,
because she thought that this is a right step and this is one of the first parcels, with the
exception of Ten Mile Mini Storage that's going -- you know, that's of any size that's
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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going to develop next to the plant and so she thought that this would, obviously, set the
type of tone and be the type of development that the city would be in favor of. Staffs
conditions, we are in agreement. The only thing that my client was -- was not pleased
with the Planning and Zoning Commission to delete a C -Store or gas station out next to
the arterial. We made the argument at the Planning and Zoning Commission that that
would be a conditional use. That does not necessarily mean that it is an allowed use, if
it's a conditional use. If the Council believed a particular use to be inappropriate, too
intensive for what we have as far as the surrounding uses, they would, obviously, have
the ability to deny that. We thought that that was a good enough safety factor in there,
but the Commission -- because most of the negative comments were the fact that the
neighbors said we fear a convenience store and gas station, we do not want to see 24
hours a day, but not all C -Stores are 24 hours a day, not all C -Stores are a nuisance, I
guess. We all stop and get gas; we all need a gallon of milk. I have had multiple
people ask me when in this area are they going to put a convenience store. I lived out
there and I got to drive clear over to Fairview to get gas. So, I mean as the north
Meridian area expands and more houses are occupied, the need is there. I guess it's
the Council's purview to determine what -- where are those appropriate locations, but
you need to keep in mind the more services we provide in these suburban areas, the
less trips we are creating out on the arterials out into the Fairviews and Eagle Road
areas. The second issue was the issue of access and I -- as Brad put it, I guess my
problem with that is the principal of the thing. We design to Ada County Highway
District standards, we go through traffic studies, we work with their staff, my staff report,
my traffic study, everything says specifically all access locations conform with Ada
County Highway District policy manual. I have never had the city staff tell me an access
was inappropriate if I met all standards. So, I fear that this is a precedent setting thing,
that even though we are designing to standards, we have traffic engineers that are
saying this is appropriate, they don't have any policy or standards to go from when they
are making a determination whether it is appropriate or inappropriate. So, I'm
concerned about that being a precedent setting thing. If we are not going to rely on Ada
County Highway Standards, then, I guess maybe Meridian needs to come up with their
own standards. Maybe they take over their streets like Nampa. I don't know the
answer. But we have to design to something. It is right in, right out, we are going to
have to build turn lanes and we felt that that was an inappropriate condition. Do you
have any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Becky, I do have a problem and I'm not trying to say that I'm -- and I know I'm not
smarter than ACHD, but I do not like those entrances that close to the intersection. I
think it can be designed -- and I would like to see the biggest share of the traffic going
off the interior road there at the two entrances onto Ustick and onto Ten Mile. We have
already got some stuff in Bridgetower dumping in on -- close to the stop sign on that
area. I don't know -- and I think it could be designed -- that's on the roadway. Now, on
the convenience store and a gas station. I think it's great. I think that area needs
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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something out there. I don't like people driving through my subdivision to get to gas and
convenience stores and there is nothing out there. So, I do agree with you on that. But
I just -- I just don't like the traffic flow on this and I don't think it's -- I don't think it's so
much the traffic transportation, I think it's as the Mayor said, I think it's a safety issue.
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, if I could respond to that. In -- with full
access to an intersection, what Ada County Highway District policy manual states is we
have got to come back 440 feet. That's from edge of pavement of the future build out of
Ten Mile back to my edge of driveway. This approach and this approach meet or
exceed the 440. This one here, Councilman Bird, is 220.
Bird: And that's what I don't like.
McKay: And that's the one that you're concerned with. Two twenty is right in, right out
only. And I guess from the perspective, those do seem close. At Bridgetower we have
no right in, right outs, they are all 440 and greater. Interconnectivity will also help as far
as the number of vehicles entering those. For commercial type uses you're not going to
get -- I don't think that would be viable as a commercial corner if you had to come in
and, then, wind your way through to get over to here. You can't capture the traffic.
Bird: I have no problem with those, Becky, but --
McKay: It's this one. Okay. It's this one right there.
Bird: It's this one that I have a problem and you can dump -- you can dump those into
the commercial -- into a C -Store or whatever it is. Gas station. It's just that one there
that's so close. I think it will really cause some -- even if it's a right in, right out, you're
still -- you're still causing the congestion, I believe.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yeah. On that -- that's one entrance, I guess, Mrs. McKay, I would have the
same concern as Councilman Bird has. It looks like Krispy Kreme's corner to me and --
McKay: I didn't do that.
Nary: And it seemed like a good idea at the time and -- it seemed like a good idea at
the time, because I was one of the people up here that said, oh, that seems like that will
work and now I have to say, yeah, we approved that and it doesn't really work very well.
And that's what that one entrance -- it appears there is adequate access to this property
with both the streets to have some connectivity from the rear street, as well as the other
two access points to be able to get to that commercial piece, that I think those are
adequate, but that one piece does strike me as a safety concern, being so close to the
corner and so close to the other entrance as well. That one is a hold up to me.
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May 25, 2004
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De Weerd: We all know what right in, right out means, too. Unless you have an island -
McKay: Don't get caught going left.
De Weerd: Yes. Unless you have an island to deter them --
McKay: Yes, I have seen that and done that myself.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: And just a quick comment on the right in, right out. If I'm -- essentially -- and
I'm not an ACHD commissioner, but the right in, right out theory is, obviously, this right
here is going to become congested as a viability for a commercial project, the way I see
this platted right now is that sits alone by itself and so the only traffic that you will be
able to capture without someone crossing a large amount of congestion will be traffic
traveling from -- from north to south and I'm not sure that, in my opinion, that that would
be a great commercial corner for someone that could only attract traffic from one
direction.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Wardle. Any further questions for the applicant? Okay.
Thank you.
McKay: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. I do have one person officially signed up and that's Kathleen Denny.
Denny: Do I give my name again?
De Weerd: Please. For the record.
Denny: Kathleen Denny, 3009 West Wilder. If you could put the aerial view picture
back up for me.
Hawkins -Clark: Sorry, we are --
Denny: Technical difficulties?
Hawkins -Clark: Yes. Experiencing them. But we will get it up as soon as we can.
Denny: Okay. As far as the development in the area, I have no problem. My problem
is the safety issue in that. I live directly across the street from that in the Hartford
Estates. We got buses picking up kids along Ten Mile and on Ustick and dropping them
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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off and it's like right where the driveways are going to be. That's -- my concern is the
safety issue for the kids. We have got a ton of kids in that neighborhood and they are
having to bus them out to the different schools in the area and I know the junior high
and the high school, that they drop off on that side of the street coming in from Ten Mile
after school. And would be a major concern for me. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Denny: Other than that, I have no problem with the development.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. This is a Public Hearing. Is there anyone else who like
to provide testimony? Step forward. And I don't think I saw your hand up when we
swore people in, so --
N.Denny: No. I was kind of --
De Weerd: Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing
but the truth, so help you God?
N.Denny: Yes, it is.
De Weerd: Thank you.
N.Denny: My only concern is the type of businesses --
De Weerd: Oh, if you will, please, state your name and address.
N.Denny: Nathan Denny, 3009 West Wilder. I'm her husband.
De Weerd: Thank you.
N.Denny: -- is the type of businesses we are going to allow to go inside there, like
pornography places or, you know, adult places or stuff like that, you know, so, no, there
is that little nasty place down there on Black Cat and Franklin down there that I kind of
avoid, you know, because my grandkids ask me what that is every time I go by, so that
would be my only concern is the type of business that we are going to allow in there. A
gas station would be very cool there. I don't have to go all the way over to Linder and
get gas, so that's all I have got to say.
De Weerd: Thank you. Brad, how far is that church from that corner? Do you recall? Is
it quite a ways? Okay. I think we have an ordinance that says you can't have adult
entertainment by a sewer treatment plan. Isn't that correct?
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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Nichols: Madam Mayor, there are those who would argue that's the right place for it.
Bird: In the sewer.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mr. Nichols. I don't think I recognized you. Okay. Is there
anyone else who would like to provide testimony? Mr. Crane. Is the testimony you
provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Crane: Yes, it is.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Crane: My name is Charles Crane. I live at 3600 West Ustick Road. I'm, actually, here
in favor of this project, which is kind of a big flip-flop from the last time you guys saw
me. Our six hundred pound guerilla has come in with tucks and tails and I really
appreciate the developer having a meeting that talked with the neighborhood and,
actually, listened to us. Some other meetings I have been to the developer tells you
what they are going to do. They have no intention of listening to the neighborhood, but
in this instance the developer has really listened to some of the comments the
neighbors have made and have, actually, seen some changes on their plan and I just
wanted to comment on that and thank the developer for part of it. I do have a concern
with the traffic. I drive down Franklin and Ten Mile in that corner and as the years have
gone by it's become increasingly obvious that if you have an intersection with too much
traffic, it backs up way down the road and that's what I'm thinking this extra driveway on
Ten Mile would contribute to that intersection being a place to stop and park for 15, 20
minutes while congestion slows everything down. So, I would hope you guys follow the
recommendations of Planning and Zoning to restrict that access that's close to the
entrance and do internal connections to that property. The only concern I have is a
convenience store. With the three other corners being approved for residences -- if we
could go back in time and say, well, let's make this a business corner, but in the past we
have approved three corners to be residential, so we need to keep that in mind. Even
though this would be a nice commercial corner, we have already approved three
corners of it to be residences. So, if we do allow some kind of heavy commerce, we
should keep in mind that people sleep there, their bedrooms are near there, if we could
at least limit the hours or put some restrictions on it to make it a livable corner still for
the people that have residences. Two other minor points I'd like to have the developer
put on record. The pathway on the north -- or the top right corner, it ends in the power
substation property. I would like to have something in the development agreement that
they will work with either the Nampa -Meridian Irrigation or the substation people to align
that pathway with another connection to finish that last little bit and if also she would
mention on the bottom left corner next to my property there is a pumping station and we
had talked about it early and she had said that they might go and move that somewhere
else, but I'd like to have her put that on the record. That's all.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Crane -- any questions for Mr. Crane? Thank you. Okay. Is
there anyone else who would like to provide testimony? He definitely is a sheriff. He
definitely has to be sworn in. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole
truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Borquist: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address
Borquist: Dana Borquist, 3125 West Wilder Court. Madam Mayor, Members of the
Council, I appreciate your time. I live -- if you could put the aerial or the one with the
yellow that shows the residential -- I live relatively close to -- I live right there. If my
hand would stop shaking. Anyway, as Madam Mayor indicated, I'm in law enforcement
and I'm okay with most of this development. I know it's a difficult area to develop and I
applaud the developer for at least going out of the box and looking at different varieties
to put in there. However, I do have major concerns, as well as many of my neighbors,
about convenience stores and all night stores being that close to residential
neighborhoods. We all built knowing that that was a vacant area. However, if you look
at the two other corners that we are on, it's all residential. I think Councilman Bird put it
correctly when he said he doesn't like people driving through his area to get gas and I
know from experience that if you drive around town in Meridian, you will find most of the
gas stations that are here have rental homes or trailer parks right next door to them.
Property goes down, I could almost say with certainty that most of the convenience
stores have had major crime activity -- criminal activity, whether or not they are armed
robberies or just common petty theft that occur all of the time. We have pathways that
go into our subdivision that are accessible directly across the street from one of these
entrances and I think we would draw that negative behavior right into our backyards, if
you will. I would like to see you uphold the recommendations from Planning and Zoning
that at least limit them to not have the gas stations, car washes, the all night activity
stores and limit it to more things like banks and such. The other issues I have are with
traffic. I see all the time where cities have the perfect opportunity to say no to some
recommendations that ACHD has and you have many problems right here in Meridian
with traffic issues and we are just asking for more problems if we create more
driveways, if you will, and you have the perfect opportunity to limited that and I'm sure
your chief of police would agree that that invites, you know, more resources from them
to write more accidents and more congestion. ACHD I don't think is planning on
improving any of those roads until 2008 and that goes up until Ustick and, then, nothing
further north. And if you have these large businesses, there is going to be a major draw
of resources and lane usage in that area. So, again, I would -- I like most of the
recommendations. I would ask that you limit the use of the commercial back to light
office or whatever zoning that would be, that limits the hours to regular business hours,
like until 5:00 or 6:00 p.m. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Any questions?
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
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May 25, 2004
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De Weerd: Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Excuse me. If I may. Would you have the same objection to a convenience
store that had to close at 11:00 and couldn't work and couldn't open until 6:00 A.M.?
Borquist: Yes, I would. It draws the same clientele, same activity.
Nichols: Okay.
De Weerd: I know it would draw my kids there to buy candy, so -- you know. Any
questions? Anyone else like to provide testimony? Is the testimony you provide tonight
the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Wilder: It is.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Wilder: Janet Wilder, 3340 North Ten Mile Road. And we are the lot they were talking
about with the circle drive. I wrote this down, because I knew I wouldn't remember it all.
First, let me say that I was at the meeting where it was decided to zone the property
around the wastewater treatment plant as mixed use wastewater treatment plant and
the reasoning behind it was to buffer the residential area away from the wastewater
treatment plant. Allowing the corner to become commercial I feel brings the sewer plant
to us on the corner, instead of buffering us from it. So, I'm totally opposed to any
commercial on the corner. I'd like to see it light office and access from within, instead of
the two entrances that they plan on Ten Mile. I think they could do it that way and it
would be -- would kind of enclose the whole development, instead of affecting the
neighbors so much, I guess. On or about November 4th, 2003, we received a letter
from Engineering Solutions concerning a neighborhood meeting about proposed
McNelis Subdivision to be held on Monday, November 17th at 6:30 at Meridian City
Hall. I attended this meeting, along with -- I think there were other neighbors and Sheri
Stiles representing Engineering Solutions. We were shown the plans and told what they
wanted to do. At that time I voiced opposition to the two commercial lots on the corner,
because of the location and the driveways. I asked if they could access them from the
commercial roadway that runs through the center of the property and was told they
couldn't and that we needed to move. Sheri told me that she would ask about a
different access and let me know. To date I haven't heard from her. I would have
appreciated a notice of the ACHD hearing in March. Now I find that it's too late to
appeal it. Also, it's my understanding that -- oh, another thing about the ACHD. I spoke
with them today and they told me that they don't notify neighbors about their hearings
and it's kind up to the developer to let anyone that might be affected know about the
meeting. As far as I know, none of the neighbors knew about it or I certainly would have
been there. Also, it's my understanding that at such time as a traffic light is installed, a
median will be put in that goes 50 feet beyond the driveway, which is affected and that
puts it back almost to our driveway. And on the school bus issue, I know for a fact there
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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is two busses stop there morning and night for kids, right -- well, driveway's just not that
far from the driveway they propose across street and I don't know why the school bus
stops there, but it does. And there is times through the day that traffic is backed up past
our drive, past our northern driveway now even. So, I just see a huge traffic problem
there, if these driveways are allowed. So, that's all I have to say. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you. Okay. Is there anyone else who
would like to provide to testimony? Please step forward. Is the testimony you provide
tonight the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Weber: Yes.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Weber: My name is Steve Weber and I live at 390 -- oh, I'm sorry -- 3139 West
Purdeau Court and I spoke last time, as well as I do this time representing -- I have --
there is one other family that lives in the subdivision right next door to me and I spoke
for quite a few families, but found out just recently that the developer is trying to get the
convenience store and gas station back into the proposal. So, that's why I was late and
I apologize for that. I didn't get on the list and as well as there was a lot of people that
weren't able to make it because of that. We thought, basically, that was off the plate,
based on the proposals of Planning and Zoning. So, we were actually against the
whole development -- and I don't know if you guys were forwarded on the 150
signatures that we had against it. It only took us, you know, a few hours over a period
of a couple days to get that little of signatures. There was a lot of negativity and a lot of
people against the development altogether and as the night went on with the Planning
and Zoning, we kind of -- we kind of talked back and forth and we changed our minds
somewhat that they asked us if we would be willing to allow the development if they
would take the convenience store and gas station out of the contingency. They do --
they did -- the developer says that it's -- we still have the right to come back and protest
it again or whatever when it comes up for whatever is going to go in there, but I mean
there was enough opposition that the Planning and Zoning recognized that there would
be opposition every time and if the developer is in the true interest of the residents in
the area, they would recognize that now and remove that concern. We are not -- we
were somewhat against the commercial, but we would rather see something like a bank
or some other thing like that come in or even limited office space, rather than a
convenience store. And the same comment, we don't want people coming into our
neighborhood, because it will draw traffic into the area that would never have come
there through subdivisions and through the connecting roads. We were told by -- I think
it was one of the managers at Albertson's that there will be a gas station there in a year
at the Albertson's on that corner. I don't know if that's true or not, but that seems like a
more suitable place for a commercial type business. And we would just like you guys --
the panel here to take that into consideration and as well as take the experience of the
Planning and Zone for Meridian into consideration against that.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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De Weerd: Thank you. Do you have any questions for the -- no? Thank you so much.
Okay. Is there any further testimony? I guess I would like Bruce to please come
forward. I think we have a couple questions. Or I have a couple questions for ACHD. If
you will, please, state your name and address.
Mills: Madam Mayor, Council Members, Bruce Mills, Ada County Highway District,
Garden City.
De Weerd: Bruce, I guess I have a question in terms -- I was a little concerned with the
comment that there is no public noticing when these applications coming from it -- in
front of ACHD and I'm not familiar with your process. Could you tell us what that is?
Mills: Madam Mayor, that is correct, actually. Ada County Highway District has 19 days
from when we receive a development application to turn it around and get it back to the
lead agency, as we are not the lead agency, and that's what one of the requirements for
notification are. We, actually, don't have public notification -- we don't have enough
time to do it, for one thing, and it's not a requirement that we have. We do place things
on our website several days before our meeting, but that is the only way at this present
time that we work with these other agencies. We have explored ideas before, but they
have never come to fruition with perhaps getting something put on your public
notification signs that would at least say for traffic concerns contact ACHD with a phone
number or something, but we -- but, anyway, that is -- that's where we are at at this time
with public notifications.
De Weerd: Now, I guess this would be for Mr. Nichols or Brad. When we send out our
public noticing, would the date at ACHD have already been set that we can include it in
ours?
Hawkins -Clark: Madam Mayor, no. When we receive the applications, we get them to
the city clerk's office, who usually just within a matter of a couple of days distributes the
30 copies around to all the agencies and departments. So, we are transmitting our
applications, you know, long before Ada County Highway District can know when their
dates are set. So, they do hold the tech review meetings, you know, which invites city
staffs to come and talk with their staff and the developers about the projects, but, again,
that's not a publicly noticed thing, so --
De Weerd: Wow. Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just a quick question. Heard Mr. Mills say that they don't
provide noticing because they are not the lead agency and so I guess taking that into
consideration on this, Meridian is -- the City of Meridian is the lead agency for this
project; is that correct?
Mills: Mr. Wardle, that's correct. We a recommending body to the city.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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Wardle: Okay. And just to follow up, Madam Mayor, it seems to me that in that case
that the City of Meridian has all the public hearing requirement for that? That -- I guess
what I'm saying is we are getting a recommendation from ACRD, but you're not -- you're
holding a public hearing -- I shouldn't say that. I'm sorry. You're holding a public
hearing, however, it's part of our process to notify the residents affected and incorporate
that into our hearings.
Mills: Mr. Wardle, it's not your requirement to notice our hearings, it just your
requirement to notice your own. It's possible when -- when your public notification is
sent out to those people, even though you don't know a date of an ACHD hearing, that
something could be put in there that's -- that mentions that ACHD will also be examining
this and holding a meeting and for more information contact this number. That's
possible, I think, maybe, but Brad is right, when he sends his notification out, we still
don't know when our hearing is going to be at this point.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, just, I guess, a quick comment to agree with the comment that
the Mayor made at the beginning of this. While the City of Meridian is not the lead on
road changes, I do believe we have a commitment to safety within our city and so just
following up with some of those questions of Bruce.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Yeah. I guess I would probably go even further. I think it is, as you said, Mr.
Mills, and correct me if I'm wrong, it is merely a recommendation from ACHD as to the
curb cuts and the locations and the roadways and the like. How the roads are built is
what ACHD really has jurisdiction over, but it is the city's ultimate decision on whether or
not to agree with those recommendations; isn't that correct?
Mills: Mr. Nary, that's correct. Basically, especially in looking at the two driveways in
question on the west side Ten Mile, again, they meet spacing wise ACHD policy. The
440 feet away from the intersection for a full access and the 220 for a limited right in,
right out access. While they meet our minimum policy requirements, you certainly have
the ability to decide whether you wish to keep them or change them.
Nary: Thank you.
De Weerd: Now, if they meet your minimums on an arterial -- are those arterials?
Arterial requirements?
Mills: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay. And I would like to get back to the north Meridian plan that I have
assumptions are still out there somewhere and being worked on, but on intersection
improvements, where are we at with intersection improvements in this north Meridian
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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area and can you ask funds to go towards the lighted intersection improvements and
have you?
Mills: Madam Mayor, at the present time the impact fees that we collect are for projects
that are in the 20 year capital improvements plan and I believe there are some
intersections -- I don't know how many of them are in the north Meridian plan, but there
are several in there and there are also a few roadway segments. Obviously, those were
based on a Compass model run that was performed years ago -- a few years ago,
anyway, and when Compass updates that model, no doubt they will update the
demographics and it will show that north Meridian, obviously, in the last couple of years
is growing much faster than they had previously modeled. I believe at that time that
they run that model and that we update our capital improvements, which is right now
about two and a half more years away. When that is done, that will likely show
additional signals and additional roadway improvements in the Meridian area, which,
then, will be funded in that particular way. We do not at this present time have any
extraordinary impact fees that we are adding on in the north Meridian area. We are
leaving some language in our -- in our site specific requirements that says that we are
asking that there not be an opposition for developments that are being approved, that
they could still fall under some type of an extraordinary impact, but we have not
analyzed in any way at this point in time how we come up with those fees and charge
them.
De Weerd: So, you're saying that in order to do that, you need to wait for an update
Compass model and that's two years off? Can they be asked to update theirs sooner
than that?
Mills: Madam Mayor, the latest schedule that I got for them was that their model would
be updated -- I'm trying to get the years right, but ACHD put our capital improvements
plan into place in October of 2003, so it would be in October 2006 where we would be
looking to update it and I believe Compass is going to have their model done in late
2005 or the start of 2006. That's the latest date I have heard from them.
De Weerd: I guess if Brad Watson can forward a request to Gary Smith and the
transportation task force or maybe the request can go through our Planning and Zoning
representative, but this really needs to be visited and I do believe we still have open-
ended conditions in development agreements that state the development would adhere
to whatever recommendations came out of the north Meridian plan and that should be
certainly a consideration by Council to be added to this development as well. So,
anything that is recommended through the north Meridian plan can be participated on
by this development as well. I guess that's the only questions I have for you. Is there
any further question from Council? Thank you, Bruce. Okay. Is there any further
testimony by the public? Okay. Would the applicant like to come up and respond?
McKay: Becky McKay. I'll just hit on a few of the key points. Mr. Denny asked about
inappropriate uses, such as adult businesses. They were not on our approved list of
acceptable uses in any three of the zones. Mr. Crane has been very supportive. I'd like
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May 25, 2004
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to thank him. He gave us a lot of good comments and he was very pleasant to work
with. For the record, I will work with Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District to make sure
that the pump station is not located directly across from his bedroom window, because
there is some noise associated with them, even though they are in an enclosed building.
So, I told him the location on the plan right there at that southwest corner was just an
arbitrary location that we would work with Nampa -Meridian to get our actual point of
delivery. But I'd like to go on the record that we will make sure that it's not outside his
bedroom window. Concern about the C -Stores that's pretty common. That's why I
believe we -- that type of use goes through a conditional use process, because there
are places that are appropriate, there are places that are inappropriate, and it's always
the purview of a city council to determine what is a good location. Also, as Councilman
Wardle indicated, the market determines what is a good location. He may be right.
This may be in appropriate; it may not be able to capture enough trips to be a preferable
site. Concerning Mrs. Wilder and her access, I guess one thing that I looked at -- I did
look at her access location. She does have a loop drive, so she is not backing -- having
a backing motion onto the arterial. I guess one question I had is when the Wilder's sold
their property, which became Hartford Estates as a residential subdivision, but, yet, kept
their home on the out parcel, why they did not provide for any internal access when they
have a cul-de-sac -- this is one inch equals 50 feet. There is a cul-de-sac it looks to be
about 35 feet from their property line and that would have, therefore, allowed a second
means of access, so she was not directly fronting on the arterial. And in hindsight, I
mean they are a developer, they probably didn't think about at some point in time Ten
Mile could be five lanes, but now the realization is here and so I'd just like to, you know,
make sure that the Council is aware of -- I can't correct mistakes of the past and we try
not to repeat those.
Rountree: Promise?
McKay: We try.
Bird: So do we.
McKay: I think these uses are as good as it gets. This property has to have some type
of use. We have got to be able to coexist with residential and the sewer treatment
plant, as I stated before. I can't think of any better uses than what -- the mix that we
have got. We have got a little -- you know, a different variety to appeal to different
markets. I don't see this property as developing very quickly, because this area is just
starting to grow and we may be a little ahead of the game as far as, you know, a lot of
office out here or flex space or something like that, but I think those are the appropriate
uses and I think the city recognizes that we have got to find something to put next to the
plant and I believe this is -- this is it. Do you have any questions?
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nichols.
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May 25, 2004
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Nichols: Madam Mayor. Becky, did I hear you address Mr. Crane's concern about the
pathway and its connection to Ten Mile?
McKay: No, sir. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and Mr. Nichols, that's Idaho
Power property, so I can't -- I can't obligate Idaho Power, I can't construct on Idaho
Power property, I can only bring the pathway so that it abuts them. I guess I would
recommend that the city talk with Idaho Power. They are usually pretty good about
trying to work with the municipalities. Mr. Crane indicated that he had spoken with
someone from there and they had indicated they were going to use -- install a lot of
landscaping, buffering, making sure that this substation was esthetically pleasing. So,
as far as incorporation of the pathway, it could go across Idaho Power property or it
could go on Nampa -Meridian property, because they now own Five Mile Creek in fee
simple. We don't have any easements on this, I don't believe. I think that's the property
line where their boundary ends. So, there is two options to extend that path, but I don't
know what I can -- you know, I can't force Idaho Power to do anything.
De Weerd: Brad, has that already been annexed in? Okay. So, they need to come
through for annexation and zoning.
Hawkins -Clark: Yes
De Weerd: Okay.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd`. Yes, Mr. Nary
Nary: Becky, on the off chance that Idaho Power doesn't want a pathway running along
their property -- I know Mr. Crane was talking about this sidewalk, but there is,
obviously, an internal sidewalk here; right?
McKay: Yes, sir.
Nary: So, why not connect the path right there, as an alternative, if this can't be
accomplished, rather than having a path that starts here and ends there and has a no
man's land in the middle, why not at least connect it all the way through, since there is a
public sidewalk access right here.
McKay: Madam Mayor, Councilman Nary, that's correct, you could come down and
make that connection there. I think the idea of the multi -use path is it would follow the
creek. So, if Idaho Power is uncooperative, I know you guys have worked on
agreements with Nampa -Meridian where those pathways go onto their property. I don't
know -- so, there is another option. I guess the Council could put some type of a safety
factor in the condition that maybe a pathway easement be provided in the event that this
outlet cannot be obtained and, then, I guess the parks department, if Idaho Power didn't
and build it and wouldn't cooperate, they would have an easement that -- they could
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
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construct it and bring the pathway out. I guess that's an option, too. I would think it
would be in Idaho Power's best interest to be cooperative and I found them to be quite
reasonable. They -- you know, they need to be politically correct most of the time.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: I have a question, Ms. McKay. And I'm familiar with the -- or I guess I'll make a
statement and ask a question. I'm familiar with the term flex space and my idea of flex
space is the single story building next to where our Planning and Zone Department is on
Water Tower with office in the front and roll -up doors in the back. Could you further
define a contractor's yard for me?
McKay: Like, for example, Madam Mayor, Councilman Wardle, like a plumber, they
typically have things that are stored, but they have to be stored out of sight, either
enclosed or like a yard. Say a heating and cooling company, you know, electricians,
they may have rolls of different materials and -- like I said, it's got to be obscured, it
can't be visible and I guess you -- I think the ordinance requires that, but if you have
concerns, you could always add a condition that in the event that they had materials
stored on the site, they would have to be either in an enclosed building or behind a
sight -obscuring fence, if you're worried about esthetics. And I think I've had projects
where that condition was placed upon it, because I don't know -- I can't tell you exactly
who those users are going to be, but I want to make sure that -- that since they are
internal, they won't be coming back through the conditional use process, being internal,
that we make sure that they provide an esthetically pleasing environment.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, thank you, Becky, that's exactly what I was talking about, so --
McKay: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any further questions? Okay
Wardle: Madam Mayor -- and just a comment on my comments on the convenience
store and I'm going to agree with Keith, mostly because if you look at this development,
I live -- or my home is somewhere right there and there are many Saturday mornings
where I woke up and wished that the convenience store was right here, so I could get
gas for the lawnmower. However, understanding that, I do agree with neighbors that
the residential properties which border it on the three sides would make that somewhat
of a nuisance to the neighbors and so I -- while I agree with the -- in theory that, that
type of use may be nice for some of the residents, it would put other residents, which
are directly affected, in essentially, a nuisance zone and so that's my opinion on the
convenience store section of this project.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
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May 25, 2004
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: And to say that -- you know, I don't think that we are saying that definitely just --
there is going to be a convenience store and a gas station there, it's going to -- a lot like
Shawn said earlier, it's going to take what the market demands out there. But -- and it's
in a CUP, so they have to come back before the Council to get approval to put it in
anyway. I just -- I don't know, I just hate to see that we would tie their hands to get a
Fred Meyers or an Albertson's that wanted a gas station. Some gentleman stated that
Albertson's in -- on Ten Mile and Cherry Lane was going to get a gas station. They
have tried twice and, we have turned it down. They are not big enough. They don't
have enough parking lot. So, I think that -- I just don't want to see it stricken as an area
that could be explored. And nobody's going to go out there and stick something up that
isn't going to be profitable. So, that was my statement on it. And I think that area does
need a gas station. I don't know about a convenience store.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would agree with Councilman Bird as well, that all the Planning and Zoning did,
which I don't agree with, is strike that as an option to consider and the CUP as the
method in which to address those concerns. I lived across the street from a
convenience store, a Circle -K, for nine years. It is not by itself a problem. There can be
problems. We have seen lots of good ones built here in this community, like Hark's
Corner. I don't think those people having bought those houses right behind Hark's
Corner at the corner of Linder and Franklin because it's built nicely, it's done well. It can
be done well and that's what the CUP process is for to be sure it is done well. I respect
Deputy Borquist's opinion about the type of clientele that some of these draw, but they
don't all draw that. They are nice convenience stores. There are lots of them in lots of
areas. Some of the older ones do front rental properties and trailer parks, as was
stated, but rental parks and trailer property is not bad people. So, you know, to have
the option to consider it in the future, I don't have a problem with that. That's the
purpose of the process is to make a determination at the time they ask for it, whether or
not it was appropriate. The people that -- on those three corners have fences -- if my
recollection is right, there is fences on every one of these properties that are on that
corner -- if you have that other picture up, Brad. On that this -- there is a fence that runs
all along this property on both sides. There may be an opening in the fence, but there is
a fence on both sides. There is a wall on this property on the corner and right now there
is a single family home on the corner, but there is fences all along here. I mean this is
not like this is some invitation to mayhem and crime in this corner just because there is
a C -Store there or a gas station two years, five years from now. Councilman Bird's
right, they have turned down the gas station at Albertson's at Ten Mile twice in the last
eight years. So, you know, for this area, with the growth and development there, that is
at least a reasonable use to consider at some point in the future. Everything else -- this
is great. We asked these folks with this property to do something else that they had
tried. We turned it down; they came back with exactly what we asked them to do. We
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 48 of 59
asked them to come up with flex space, we can make some changes, as Mrs. McKay
suggested, regarding making sure that any contractor type of yard is in an enclosed
building or in some covered space or site obscuring space in the rear of the property. I
think I do agree with Councilman Bird, though -- and I don't know whether or not we
need to continue the plat, but I can't agree to that right in, right out driveway 220 feet
from the corner. But other than that, this is a good project and this is a good option for
this project to consider at some point in the future. If it doesn't work and all of those
neighbors come back and the Council, whoever is sitting here at that point in time
decides not to do it, that's the risk the developer takes. They know that. But just to
wipe that out now just doesn't make any sense.
De Weerd: Is there any further comments?
Rountree: Nothing left more to say.
De Weerd: Okay.
Hawkins -Clark: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Hawkins -Clark: If I could just point out for the record and for the public, that the way that
the development agreement is worded, that the hours of operation in the I -L and L -O
areas would be restricted -- now I just lost it. Oh, there it is. 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 p.m. in
the I -L and L -O. That is the way that it's worded and I believe they are in agreement
with that, but just -- that is the way that the condition is worded right now. It does not
address the corner, the C -G, but it does address the rest of the project.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Nobody else has anything to say, well, I would move that we close Items 17 and
18, the public hearings for McNelis Subdivision by Falcon Creek, LLC.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to close Items 17 and 18. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. Is there any further discussion or is there a motion that anyone
would like to make to consider?
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May 25, 2004
Page 49 of 59
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: On the annexation would we close the road at that time or that would be under the
preliminary plat?
De Weerd: Oh, Mr. Nichols.
Rountree: Mr. Nichols.
De Weerd: I thought you would just talk without it
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, what you have done in the past is if
you're going to require a condition, such as limiting the number of accesses from the
arterial, that you do so in the annexation and zoning requirements, as a condition that
would be included in the development agreement and that would be part of what you
would do there. So, if there -- if you're going to eliminate an access, then, you would do
that in the annexation and zoning. And also you would also want to address the issue
of -- if you're going to restrict uses, I'd also recommend that you restrict them in the
annexation and zoning.
De Weerd: And if they were to add a condition regarding the north Meridian plan
conditions.
Nichols: Yes.
De Weerd: All under zoning. Okay. Or annexation and zoning.
Bird: Annexation and zoning
De Weerd: Right. Were you making a motion or --
Bird: No. I was asking a question.
De Weerd: Is Mr. Nary making a motion?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nary.
Nary: I would move the approval of AZ 04-004, the request for annexation and zoning
for McNelis Subdivision, to include also in the development agreement a couple of
additional conditions that the access point onto Ustick that was right in, right out as
shown on the preliminary plat be eliminated, that there be a pathway easement for
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May 25, 2004
Page 50 of 59
connectivity between the north and south point of the pathway on the northern part of
the property line, that the additional conditions is that on the I -L properties, that if a
contractor yard is constructed, that the materials must be either in an enclosed building
or behind site obscuring fences in the rear of the property and that the convenience
store and gas station be included as conditional uses that can be considered for the
C -G zone on the -- on the corner of Ten Mile and Ustick. Does that cover all the
conditions? Is that the area we should cover, Mr. Nichols?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Councilor, I believe you said Ustick
instead of Ten Mile.
Nary: You're right. You're correct. Told from everybody. It was right in, right out on
Ten Mile, not Ustick that would be removed.
Rountree: Cross -access.
Nary: And that -- thank you. And that there be cross -access between the commercial
properties and the L -O properties that abut the rear street.
Bird: And if -- would this include if -- in a contractor's yard that any company vehicles,
lettered company vehicles and stuff, be behind fencing or enclosure, too, so that they
are not out in the public view?
Nary: Overnight.
Bird: Yeah.
Nary: Right. Yes. That all of the -- all types of company vehicles and equipment would
be also behind sight obscuring fencing in the non -working hours. And I think that's -- I
think that's all of those.
Bird: I'll second it.
De Weerd: Okay. As long as you don't ask me to repeat that. Is there any further
discussion or questions?
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Just discussion. I agree with the motion almost in total. The one part that I
can't agree with and, obviously, I have expressed it before, is the convenience store,
so --
De Weerd: Thank you.
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May 25, 2004
Page 51 of 59
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: A question on the cross -access. Is that to all lots?
Nary: You know, at this juncture, yeah, I would say to all lots, because they are going to
have to decide exactly where the lots are going to be, so if that won't work, they are
going to have to come back and ask for it to be amended, so yes.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion? Ms. Deputy Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, nay; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 15.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I'd move the approval of PP 04-004, the preliminary plat for McNelis Subdivision,
with the appropriate changes in regards to the plat regards to the right in, right out
access on Ten Mile and for the plat, Mr. Nichols, is there -- do the other conditions need
to be present as well that we added to the development agreement or just the
driveway?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, and the cross -access.
Nary: Oh, and the cross -access. Thank you. The cross -access also be to all
properties adjacent to commercial property on the corner as well.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 16. Any further
discussion? Okay. Mrs. Deputy Clerk.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, nay; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. And Item 16, CUP 04-004. I'm sorry. Item 18. We just
did both of them. Okay. I just wanted to remind staff, if we can make comments on the
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 52 of 59
updated Compass model -- or model and the transportation task force, as well as if we
can also put some kind of notification that transportation meetings will held at ACHD
and to have a contact number or a website. If you could work something out in that
between Planning and Zoning and the clerk's office, that would be very appropriate. I
guess I did not know that the public was not noticed on those hearings.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: If I might make a comment to staff. I applaud you and appreciate your
comments on traffic in this particular application and more of it would be appreciated.
De Weerd: Here. Here.
Nary: Nothing more needs to be said
Item 19: Public Hearing: PP 04-003 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 2
building lots on 2.7 acres in an I -L zone for Cafarelli Subdivision No. 2
by Shawn Fickes — 1950 West Franklin Road:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 19 is Public Hearing PP 04-003. 1 will open with staff
comments.
Hawkins -Clark: Thank you. This application does just involve the one -- the one
request and that is to re -subdivide an existing lot in Cafarelli Subdivision. Cafarelli
Subdivision are the three lots that front Franklin just about a quarter mile -- excuse me --
about a quarter mile west of Linder Road. The Sanitary Service Company and Meridian
School District have this property immediately to the west. There is all industrially
zoned land surrounding this. It is already annexed in and is zoned light industrial. They
are not proposing any changes there. The request is to basically just do a split of the lot
into two buildable lots. The property does have -- does show a shared access ingress -
egress easement here on the east boundary with the existing building and lot that's
there. There is, as you probably well know, a private -- about a 50, 55 foot wide road
easement that is constructed by the school district to serve their bus facility here and
what the application -- or the Planning and Zoning Commission is recommending to you
is that -- that there only be in the future one point of access, possibly, to that roadway
and that would be this 25 foot wide easement that you see graphically depicted here
between the two lots. However, as was testified at the Planning and Zoning
Commission hearing by the applicant, Mr. Bigham with the school district, they have had
conversations, they really don't know exactly, is my understanding, of whether this will
become public or not. It think he envisions it will. Until there is a final determination on
whether this is going to be public or not, the recommendation is to close off the access
until some agreement is made in the future between all the parties as to how this will be
utilized, if there is a signal on Franklin, et cetera. So, at this point they are showing a
20 -foot wide easement all the way up the whole west boundary adjacent to that
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May 25, 2004
Page 53 of 59
roadway. That would be, basically, a landscape easement and this 25 foot cross -
access for future potential access there. Until that point this shared driveway would be
used between the two lots. Eight Mile Lateral does run on the north boundary of this
property, which has a pretty good size easement on it. That's to be left open. So, I
think those are the main highlights that staff has to offer on this one.
De Weerd: Thank you, Brad. Any questions? Okay. Is the application here? Kevin,
were you already sworn in?
Amar: I am not.
De Weerd: Okay. Is the testimony you provide tonight the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Amar: It is.
De Weerd: Thank you. Please state your name and address.
Amar: For the record, Kevin Amar, address 114 East Idaho, number 230, in Meridian. I
am here representing Cafarelli Subdivision No. 2. As Brad stated, it is a simple lot split
or we are requesting a simple lot split. We have read and understand the conditions of
approval that are being asked of us and we do agree with those conditions of approval.
Some of the items with respect to the issues that Brad had raised, the access to this site
currently is using the existing access as was approved with Cafarelli Subdivision off of
Franklin Road. So, we are not requesting any new accesses, in fact, using the existing
access that is currently being used by Regal Industries. Also, with respect to the road
on our western boundary, it is not known at this time when that road will be public and
we understand until it becomes such, we have no right to access that. For that reason
we are putting a landscaping strip -- actually creating an additional lot -- two additional
lots, one in this location and one in this location, for the express means of landscaping,
understanding that in the future we can -- we can access that roadway when and if it
becomes public. So, that is looked at, so there will be -- there will be access. Other
items we are comfortable meeting or wanting to do two uses that are allowed within this
-- within this zone and asking for a simple lot split.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions? Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Mr. Amar, is this property where the overgrown weeds in the landscape is
along Franklin? Is that where this is?
Amar: If you can call them weeds. There are big trees.
Nichols: And there is a bunch of grass. It's not a well-maintained landscape.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 54 of 59
Amar: Not well maintained. No. And it was the last lot within Cafarelli Subdivision, so it
has become the dumping yard of anything and everything out there. It definitely needs
cleaned up.
Nichols: Since I drive by it several times, I notice there is a lot of concrete debris and --
you're going to maintain the landscape strip along Franklin there?
Amar: Well, we are going to improve it. It needs -- it needs developed at this point. If
you want any fill, you could -- you're welcome to run out there and --
Bird: Help yourself.
De Weerd: How generous.
Amar: And that offer is extended to any of you.
Rountree: It's free.
Nary: When he says any of you, he means anyone in the City of. Meridian.
Amar: Yeah.
Nary: Not just the seven of us sitting up here.
Amar: That's correct.
De Weerd: Doug, do you need any dirt?
Amar: Well, we don't have any of that. It's just all concrete.
Bird: I was just going to say --
De Weerd: Oh, concrete.
Bird: We haul that stuff off.
De Weerd: Okay. I'm sorry. Is there any further questions? It must be late.
Amar: Not as late as it could be. Thank you.
De Weerd: Is there anyone else who would like to provide testimony on this item?
Okay. Any further comment, questions, soap box statements?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
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May 25, 2004
Page 55 of 59
Bird: Nobody's yelling out, so I'll move we close Item No. 19, Cafarelli Subdivision No.
2, PP 04-003.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to approve this item. Is there any further
discussion?
Bird: No. No. Close the hearing.
De Weerd: I'm sorry. Close the Public Hearing. Am I trying to move this along too
fast?
Rountree: Give us another 30 seconds.
De Weerd: I'm sorry. The motion was to close the Public Hearing. All those in favor
say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we accept the preliminary plat for Cafarelli Sub No. 2, Item No.
19, PP 04-003.
Wardle: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to approve Item 19. 1 am sure of that
motion now. Mrs. Deputy Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll -Call: Bird, yea; Rountree, yea; Wardle, yea; Nary, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 20: Ordinance No. Parks and Recreation
Commission Ordinance:
De Weerd: Okay. Item 20 is Ordinance 04-1080. Would the Deputy City Clerk please
read this ordinance by title only?
Green: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Ordinance No. 04-1080,
an Ordinance of the City of Meridian, Idaho, repealing Chapter 2, Title 2 of Parks and
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 56 of 59
Recreation Commission of the Meridian City Code, providing for conflict, validity,
savings clause and providing for an effective date.
De Weerd: Thank you. You have heard the ordinance 04-1080 by title only. Is there
anyone who would like hear it read in its entirety? Don't say yes and leave.
Nary: We can reconsider the last one.
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor, I would ask that in the motion to approve that we amend the
caption to include the words and reenacting a new Chapter 2, Title 2. 1 missed that in
the draft. I'm sorry.
De Weerd: Council, I guess I had -- we had this in front of us in a pre -Council and I
guess I just had a couple of questions and -- or items that I would like to hear some
discussion on. The first one would be in item 22-1-64, which on page two, and that's
talking about ex -officious and this is where they chose to move the youth representative
and make it a non-voting and I didn't know what the purpose was for making the youth
member a non-voting member.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: Let me ask you a question, Mayor. Is that the last one? Because we got one that
we didn't discuss before pre -Council and, then, we got another one and I'm quite
shocked that it's on the agenda. We got another one that was -- and I have not had a
chance to go through and see what the changes were on the -- on the second one we
got from the attorneys. We just got it the end of last week, I think it was, wasn't it, Tara?
Green: I believe it was May 14th that we received the latest one.
Bird: May 14th.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: And maybe, Mr. Bird, maybe we should set it over. The direction -- and I could
be wrong, but my recollection was the direction after pre -Council was we made the
recommended changes and said put it on the Council agenda, so that is why it's there.
But we have had some technical difficulties accessing the information this weekend, so I
mean maybe it would be better to set this matter over and -- to give us that time.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 57 of 59
Bird: Well, I think the Mayor's got a couple of good points and I don't -- can't remember
if that's what -- there was a couple of little changes and I can't remember if that was one
of them. Why get a youth on there if we are not going to let them vote? I want their
voice. I mean I think they -- I think they got every right to have a voice.
De Weerd: Well, since we have not had the opportunity to take a look at this in
complete -- in total, why don't we continue this until next week. We will just put it on
next week's agenda and bring your comments and -- Mr. Nichols?
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think the only change that was made
-- and I -- I believe this is it -- it was on page two in item three, we changed the wording
with regard to membership on the Parks and Rec. Commission of a resident of the area
of impact.We had before may include a resident of the area of impact, but in the
proposed agreement that we forwarded to Ada County, which is modeled after the
Boise city, Ada County agreement with regard to collecting park impact fees, that
agreement requires one membership from -- at least one from the area of impact. So, I
did -- I did make that change before it came back to you, but I think that should be the
only change. I think the rest of the provisions were as before, we just simply cleaned up
the comment language and took those things out. But, you know, we invite, you know,
whatever scrutiny you want to give it and whatever changes you want to make.
De Weerd: Yeah. And I appreciate that. I think when it was on the pre -Council, there
was still the question as to what the county would ask for, but also I think there was
some cleaning up and taking some stuff out, blue and red and stuff like that. So, this is
the first time we have seen it in black and white and I believe it was the direction of
Council to get the blue and red and stuff out, to have it in a more readable form, and so
it is appropriate that we just continue this until next week. I'm sure Mr. Wardle and
Doug Strong would probably have liked to have reported on this tomorrow tonight at the
commission meeting. Is that tomorrow night? Oh, that was last week. Where I am?
Wardle: Madam Mayor, typically, the second Wednesday of each month, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Well, they can report on it next month, then
Bird: A least that's what it's been for six years.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Nary: I was going to say on the youth member, probably the one area that -- and the
youth members on the Boise commissions, the one area that they have found the most
success in having a voting member is the parks commission, in having the youth
members. So, it, actually, has been by far the most successful and Mr. Hall, the parks
director -- I'm not speaking for him, but I think would echo that. He's said that to me
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 58 of 59
more than once, that they found that to be a valuable member of the commission was
the youth member. So, I would agree that it doesn't really make much sense to have
that position and not have them be a voting member.
Bird: And their commission is so successful. It's been so successful. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I'd like to ask Mr. Wardle if he knows why they didn't want that youth to be a voting
member.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, Mr. Bird, I do not recall that being addressed and I'm going to
defer to Director Strong to ask if he remembers that specific discussion.
Strong: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, please, restate the question.
De Weerd: Go ahead.
Wardle: Doug, we have a question as to in the previous ordinance, the youth member
was a voting member and in this current version is not. I couldn't recall a specific
discussion.
Strong: I believe that's correct. I don't think there has been any discussion about youth
member participation in the past at all. I don't recall whether it's even addressed in the
previous ordinance or not. I think there is a clause that there may be a youth member.
I believe that's the way it's stated.
De Weerd: I guess --
Bird: Thank you. That answers mine, Mayor
De Weerd: -- it was in the recommendation by the commission and it has been stricken
and, then, put somewhere else in a different way. So, it had been in there. Anyway, we
can discuss that next week and --
Wardle: Thank you, Madam Mayor, and I was just going to suggest that we do hold this
over and I know that from the commission's standpoint, just to report back to you, they
are anxious to see this, but -- to see it approved and passed. However, they would like
it done correctly, so that they can -- they can really utilize it to benefit the city. And with
that -- I'm sorry. Mr. Nichols.
Nichols: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Meridian City Council
May 25, 2004
Page 59 of 59
Nichols: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if we could -- if you come next week
prepared to tell us what changes you will make, then, I will come back with a clean one
and we can clean up the title and have it a week later. So, rather than me cleaning up
the title and, then, revising it again, if you choose to change some of the language, I'll
just leave it alone for now and you can tell us next week what changes you want to
make.
De Weerd: Okay. Sorry.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would move with that that we continue Ordinance No. 04-1080 to June 1st, 2004.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's moved and seconded to continue this to next week, June 1st,
2004. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
De Weerd: Okay. I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Rountree: So moved.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: It's been moved and seconded to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All
ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:07 P.M.
(TAPE ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
MAYOR TXWMY DE WEERD nrrrru ,, DATE APPROVED
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