HomeMy WebLinkAbout2016-03-29 spc mtgMeridian City Council Meeting Agenda – March 29, 2016 Page 1 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk’s Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
CITY OF MERIDIAN
SPECIAL MEETING AGENDA
Tuesday, March 29, 2016 at 6:00 PM
City Council Chambers
33 East Broadway Avenue, Meridian, Idaho
1. Roll-call Attendance:
X Anne Little Roberts X Joe Borton
X Ty Palmer X Keith Bird
O Genesis Milam X Luke Cavener
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
2. Adoption of the Agenda Adopted
3. Public Hearing Continued from March 15, 2015 for Brinegar Prairie
Subdivision (H-2015-0046) by Suggs Community Solutions Located 2220
N. Ten Mile Road Approved
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 23.46 Acres of Land
with an R-8 Zoning District
2. Request: Preliminary Plat Approval Consisting of Ninety-
Six (96) Building Lots and Twelve (12) Common Lots on
22.6 Acres of Land in a Proposed R-8 Zoning District
4. Executive Session Per Idaho State Code 74-206A (1)(a) and 74-
206(1)(a):
74-206A (1)(a): All Negotiations Between A Governing Body And A
Labor Organization Shall Be In Open Session And Shall Be Available
For The Public To Attend. This Requirement Also Applies To
Negotiations Between The Governing Body's Designated
Representatives And Representatives Of The Labor Organization.
This Requirement Shall Also Apply To Meetings With Any Labor
Negotiation Arbitrators, Mediators Or Similar Labor Dispute Meeting
Facilitators. Provided, However, A Governing Body Or Its Designated
Meridian City Council Meeting Agenda – March 29, 2016 Page 2 of 2
All materials presented at public meetings shall become property of the City of Meridian.
Anyone desiring accommodation for disabilities related to documents and/or hearing,
please contact the City Clerk’s Office at 888-4433 at least 48 hours prior to the public meeting.
Representatives May Hold An Executive Session For The Specific
Purpose Of: Considering A Labor Contract Offer Or To Formulate A
Counteroffer; AND 74-206 (1)(a) To consider hiring a public officer,
employee, staff member or individual agent, wherein the respective
qualities of individuals are to be evaluated in order to fill a particular
vacancy or need. This paragraph does not apply to filling a vacancy
in an elective office or deliberations about staffing needs in general
Into Executive Session at 7:16 p.m.
Out of Executive Session at 8:45 p.m.
Adjourned at 8:45 p.m.
Meridian City Council March 29, 2016
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday,
March 29, 2016, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Keith Bird, Joe Borton, Ty Palmer,
Anne Little Roberts and Luke Cavener.
Members Absent: Genesis Milam.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Bruce Chatterton, Josh Beach, Jamie
Leslie, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X_ Anne Little Roberts X _ Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X_ Keith Bird
_____ Genesis Milam __X___ Lucas Cavener
_X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Okay. Good evening. Thank you for joining us. I will go ahead and
call our special meeting of City Council to order. For the record it is Tuesday,
March 29th. It's 6:00 p.m. I will start with roll call attendance. Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is adoption of the agenda.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the agenda as published.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adopt the agenda as published. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 3: Public Hearing Continued from March 15, 2015 for Brinegar
Prairie Subdivision (H-2015-0046) by Suggs Community
Solutions Located 2220 N. Ten Mile Road
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 2 of 28
1. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 23.46 Acres of Land
with an R-8 Zoning District
2. Request: Preliminary Plat Approval Consisting of Ninety-
Six (96) Building Lots and Twelve (12) Common Lots on
22.6 Acres of Land in a Proposed R-8 Zoning District
De Weerd: Item 3 is our public hearing. Continued from March 15th. It was
continued specifically for the preliminary plat. I will turn this over to Josh.
Beach: Thank you, Madam Mayor. As was said, this is an item that's been
continued to tonight for some changes requested by Council for the preliminary
plat. So, again, this is an application for annexation and zoning and preliminary
plat. The site consists of 23.46 acres of land, zoned RUT, located 2220 North
Ten Mile Road on the east side of North Ten Mile Road north of West Cherry
Lane. There, again, this is an annexation, so there is no history on the property
as far as the city is concerned yet. The future land use map designation for the
property is medium density residential. The applicant had previously presented a
preliminary plat with 96 residential lots and 14 common lots. The revised
preliminary plat, what you will see tonight will be 93 single family residential lots
and the same number of common lots bein g 14. Staff has reviewed the
proposed plat and, again, I will go through these with you. But it doesn't meet
our current standards in the UDC. So, as you can see here this is the original
preliminary plat that was proposed to the Planning and Zoning Com mission,
which they recommended some changes. The applicant then came -- came
back with this revised preliminary plat. As you can see this one having the -- the
5,000 -- around 5,000 square foot lots here on the south. Council then asked at
our last meeting that the applicant revise that to increase the size of the lots to a
minimum of 8,000 square feet. The applicant has done that and will present that
to you tonight. With that staff did receive a number of additional comments from
the public in between the previous City Council meeting and tonight from -- one
from Debbie McDonald and, then, from Shirley Carol. Staff will stand for any
questions you have.
De Weerd: Thank you, Josh. Council, any questions?
Bird: Not at this time.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Josh, were there changes in the -- in the perimeter on the east side as
well or just the south?
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 3 of 28
Beach: No. Just on the south. So, you can see here on the plat that was
reviewed at the last Council meeting -- I think the lot size changed slightly in that
southwest corner, but very minimal.
Borton: Okay.
Beach: Yeah. Open space is comparable to that -- to the previously reviewed
plat as well.
Borton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Is the applicant here? Good evening. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Suggs: Thank you very much, Mayor. My name is Jane Suggs, 200 Louisa
Street in Boise, and I'm representing Trilogy Development and the Brinegar
Prairie Subdivision and, first, I'd like to say thank you to the staff for that brief, but
complete analysis of our new plat and a very special thank you to the Council
and all the other staff for being here tonight for this very special meeting and for
the neighbors who have shown up. First, I think Josh did a good job of what
happened is we lost three lots. We did have more lots along the south boundary
and we have lost three lots and enlarged those lots. We haven't made any other
lots smaller. Council Member Borton asked about the east boundary. That east
boundary already the lots were 8,000 square feet. So, we did not change those.
That meets the R-4 requirement for our perimeter, which matches R -4 lots that
are around us. We also -- I remember a comment from Council Member Milam,
who said it looks like you're just doing minimums and so -- I think she was talking
about open space. We did on our last plat show that usable open space was ten
percent, even though we had quite -- more actual open space. We have now
recalculated 13.8 percent of our space is usable open space and, again, that's
just using portions. We haven't included some of the open spaces that we could
include as usable, we just want to make sure that you realize we are not going
just for minimums on open spaces. Again, we have developed this very closely
with the staff. We have met the Comprehensive Plan. We also met all the
subdivision requirements, no requests for waivers or any kind of extra
consideration of the subdivision ordinance. We agree with all the conditions of
approval. So, we actually respectfully request your approval of this and I will
stand for questions if there are questions about this, because, really, the only
change you see now is fewer lots and larger lots along the south.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jane. Council, any questions for the applicant?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 4 of 28
Bird: Jane, first I want to thank you for going back and redoing this. If my
calculation is right, we have got -- we have got two of the lots are in excess of
10,000 square feet. We have three over 9,000 and we got 21 over 8,000 and,
then, 68 of them that's 5,000 plus. So, actually, you have not taken -- you have
not used the R-8 minimum at anyplace.
Suggs: Which is a 5,000 square foot lot. Yes.
Bird: Which as one of the biggest doubters last time around I appreciate that.
Suggs: Thank you.
Bird: I very much appreciate the effort you guys put into this. That's all. That's
all I have got to say. Thank you.
Suggs: Well, thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Madam Mayor. Jane, quick question. What do you anticipate being the
minimum home value for the smallest one in the subdivision?
Suggs: I'm glad you asked. Just a moment and I will get something I can give to
Josh, because I wanted to show you something. I want to make sure I'm not
doing anything special that would require me not to -- not to participate -- to
change this hearing, but I have -- I have some homes and home values from a
similar subdivision. Can I show that to the Council?
Nary: Sure.
Suggs: Okay. P&Z did not see this particular drawing.
Nary: Well, I -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I guess it's in response
to the question --
Suggs: Yes.
Nary: -- so I guess that's -- I think that's personally fine.
Suggs: At the last hearing I showed you some homes that were typically built by
the -- by the home builder and so I wanted to actually go out and look at a new
subdivision where similarly sized and valued homes were being built and that's
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 5 of 28
the Chesterfield Subdivision in Meridian. So, we have a couple of houses here
that -- from the assessor's data, but they are fairly new houses and that's one
that's close to 200,000. If you will scroll up you will see they are fairly large, over
2,000 square feet. And, then, this last one I did show a smaller home, probably
one like I would buy, and that shows a 1,340 square foot home with a value of
157,400. We actually think that the values here will be a little higher than
Chesterfield, because of location. So, again, that value includes lot values and
home values, so I would hate to say the minimum value, but it would be
something very comparable to that, with most of the homes in the 200 range.
Palmer: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions from Council? Okay. Thank you. I did
have several people that signed up. When I call your name if you would like to
provide testimony I will indicate how you signed up. Blaine Tewell -- I don't know
why I never remember how to say your last name. But did sign up against as is
and come on forward. Or neutral. I am sorry, I had Michael Matson's comments
as yours.
Tewell: Okay.
De Weerd: Thank you for being here.
Tewell: My name is Blaine Tewell. I'm in the Sunburst Subdivision. Thank you
for having me tonight and allowing me to speak and thank you, Councilman, for
your question, because that was something that was on my mind. The house
that --the last one she mentioned, 1,340 square feet, with an approximate value
of 157, my house is about a hundred square feet less than that and the value is --
is about 168,000. So, I think it's going to be a little bit of a pull on the value of my
home or any home comparable to mind if they are going to be pricing some of
those houses on the smaller lots at 157. You know, I'm open to the idea of,
obviously, having the development. I'm not totally against anybody trying to do
something positive in the community, but I just want to make sure it doesn't
negatively impact myself as a homeowner and mixing apples and oranges. I'm
looking for consistency and so I appreciate the improvements on the south --
south end where they changed the size of the lots, because that's pretty
comparable to mine. Mine's 7,800 square feet. But my concern would be if they
are still going to be putting in lower priced homes it's still going to be a little bit of
an anchor or a negative pull on the value of the rest of the homes in the area,
even the ones in that development, for that matter, because that's going to be a
reference point at some point for an appraiser and that's all I got. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Blaine. Michael Matson. Good evening.
Matson: Good evening.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 6 of 28
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Matson: My name is Michael Matson. Address is 2343 North Morello. I live just
north of the proposed subdivision.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Matson: And previously when I was here I brought up matters of safety that were
a concern of mine and still are and it feels like, though, ACHD is more the -- the
route for that, but at the same route I feel that the city should have a little bit of
pull for the -- the streets in their city. It's still very much a concern of mine,
especially that corner where Morello will meet with Chateau and I know
previously the representative here from ACHD said that -- referenced people not
wanting to stop for stop signs and that might be true, but that is sti ll the law and
that's not a reason to not put up a stop sign because you feel people might not
want to stop there and it is a collector and I understand that that is a route built to
collect homes out of the -- or cars out of the neighborhood, but it still needs to be
safe for travel. Just tonight on my way here at the park at Chateau as I passed it
there were cars on both sides of the street and -- as people were there for their
football practices and lacrosse and everything else and it's an active
neighborhood and I would hate to see as almost a hundred more homes come in
that many more people are there and not have that road be safe. Secondly, I
wanted to address the size. One of the things that I got a little fired up last week
-- or two weeks ago when we -- we previously met was -- they were throwing
around numbers of how big the subdivisions are. I, too, got on Google Earth
today and did a little bit of math and the 55 homes in my neighborhood in the
Kentfield Subdivision just north of us, she's right, we are at about 3.6 to 3.7
homes per acre and as she was throwing out these numbers last week they are
correct numbers, I don't have any arguments with those numbers, but it's hard to
necessarily understand them when you just throw out numbers and we n eed to
remember that there is a house attached to that and a house is massive, it's not
a small Hot Wheel car or something else that is easily dividable. A house -- even
just a half of a house more on an acre is a large amount of something to put on a
property. With these new changes that she made -- and I guess she said about
13 percent of the -- of the acreage is going to be open space, my rough
estimates say that it's about 4.7 homes per acre. That's about a full home per
acre more than the lots -- than the subdivisions in Sunburst and Kentfield where I
live and that's -- that's not very comparable. A whole other home per acre is
quite a bit more to shove onto and squeeze into that neighborhood and I don't
feel it's comparative and the reason for that -- I think for that size and what -- a
solution that I could potentially see -- and I don't know what power you guys have
for city code to do this, would be to potentially give them a variance on the open
space. As I look at my open space in my neighborhood there is one lot and it's a
drainage ditch out of the 55 homes. The one to the south, Sunburst, as I was
counting them from Google Earth, I didn't see any real open space as far as
parks and things. We have a park right next door to us, just northeast of that
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 7 of 28
property that those citizens could easily use just as I can and that might be a
potential solution where both sides where the neighbors who are concerned
about how many homes are being shoved in there and for them as they want
larger lots and all of us want larger lots that fit more the community, potentially
those -- that development could go up to an R-4 development, have a few less
homes in it, take advantage of not necessarily having to have as much open
space, because there is that park there right next door that the citizens could
take advantage of. I don't know, again, if you guys have the ability to do that, but
I think that is potentially a solution that could work out for -- for all parties involved
to still have the higher number of homes and a slightly higher density there, not
really exceed an R-4 very much and still have open space for those people to be
able to take advantage of living in this nice commun ity we have and that's all I
have. Thanks.
De Weerd: Thank you. Margaret Enking. Signed up as neutral. Thank you.
Monica Tetrault. Okay. Thank you. Also signed up as neutral. And Ken?
Okay. Signed up as neutral. Glenn Bentley signed up against.
Bentley: Good evening, Mayor and Council.
De Weerd: Good evening, Glenn.
Bentley: Glenn Bentley. 2250 North Astaire Way in Meridian.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bentley: I live in Glennfield Manor, which is a part of this one mile sector. I
watched the video last week and which is the reason I came down. I also served
on the City Council from 2000 -- or, excuse me, 1996 to 2000 and during that
time we did some in-fill products into this one acre sector. One of them was
Tuttle Creek and the other was Devlin Place and at no time did the City Council
ever envision throwing an R-8 in the middle of this one mile sector, as
Councilman Bird has spoke to at the previous meeting. Several of the people
that have spoken about the impact on home values. I am also a realtor, have
been so for 15 years and have sold about 15 homes within this one mile area
and the biggest selling point that we have had from the clients buying was the
fact that they were larger lots where they had room for their -- their RV, their
boats or trailers, because, face it, three-quarters in Idaho are outdoor people and
if you have these smaller lots in the center of this -- I mean appreciate the
developer going around and putting R-4 around the perimeter, give them a
buffer, but the problem is going to be is where are these trailers and RVs going to
be put? They are going to be stuck in the driveways, they are going to be left on
the street, which is going to put some work on the zoning. Code enforcement
people are going to have to be out there and take care of this. The traffic is an
issue. I don't know if ACHD is here tonight, but I will tell the Council this, do not
let them slip a traffic light there at Chateau and Ten Mile. The nice part about the
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 8 of 28
five lanes now is it stacks the traffic and it's going to start deferring to people that
cut through this subdivision. The issue of stop signs has been well addressed
before. Prime example ACHD can attest to is Edna Street in Boise. They have
got them every block up there and it doesn't do any good, people just blow right
through them. So, you know, they have got to figure out how they are going to
get this traffic out of here. Part of the development we did in Devlin Place we
wound up getting about four more acres tacked onto the one acre little area park
that was there and now Chateau Park has been de veloped with the help of the
parks and rec commission and we got -- got the rest of the street through, which I
don't know whether that was a blessing or not. So, anyway, I would like to see
this go back to being an R-4 to complete the fill in. I know it's a property rights
issue and I thoroughly believe in property rights, but the thing the Council has to
remember, the property rights not only apply just to the product that you had
before you tonight, but you must take in the affects of the property righ ts of the
owners around the subdivision that is going in. Thank you for your time.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Sir, if I could ask you a question.
De Weerd: Mr. Bentley. A question.
Bentley: Almost got away. Yes.
Palmer: I perk up whenever I hear the words property rights, because that's the
thing I argue for all the time. I'm just curious, you mentioned the property rights
of the surrounding neighbors. What rights would be violated should we ap prove
this tonight?
Bentley: Well, if you -- if you look -- and I'm going to go back -- I watched the
video of the March 1st hearings that you had where there was two in -fill products
-- projects that were turned down and you were the only one that vot ed for that
and you were pretty adamant about your property rights issue. People do have
the right to develop their land, but there is regulations between the city, the
county, and the state that have to be followed. You cannot do just anything you
want on your property, it has to follow the zoning laws and the other laws and
regulations that are set in place. Now, the people have spoken about the fact
that lower size homes within a certain area is going to impact as it -- like I said,
as a professional realtor I can tell you that they are absolutely correct that they
are going to take -- and the appraisers whenever they do a product analysis they
have to take into consideration the surrounding homes. I do a lot of broker price
opinions for banks and they want stuff within a half mile of the homes that they
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 9 of 28
are assessing and, you know, that puts it right in the middle and the safety issue,
too, is very important.
Palmer: Thank you.
Bentley: Yeah. Anybody else?
De Weerd: No. Thank you.
Bentley: Thank you.
De Weerd: Claire Chapple. I'm sorry, I wish we had a portable microphone that
we could have just taken this to you. Thank you for being here this evening.
Chapple: I'm coming. Claire Chapple. 3017 West Bonner. We are directly
across from the new subdivision. Our house backs up against Chateau. I just
have one question. This is in regards to traffic. It has always been about traffic.
Before when we got notice that this was happening, I called the developer, it's a
done deal. This is before anything was done. Their arrogance was unbelievable.
I went to the Planning and Zoning. We talked. We had a good turnout against
this traffic. Nobody listened. It passed onto you. Why doesn't anybody listen to
the people who live there? I just left my home. The park that is right next to our
subdivision, the streets are lined with traffic. The children are lined all over the
place. It's unbelievable to have traffic only come out on Chateau is ridiculous.
We had a hard time tonight getting out of the -- out of our subdivision to come
here onto Chateau. It's unbelievable. Now, I have worked for government most
of my life. There is no such thing as you can't do. I have heard now talking
about Ada County can't do this and Ada County can't do that, to have an opening
onto Ten Mile. Well, they can do. They don't want to do. Take a right on Ten
Mile. They put entrances all along Ten Mile when they put that road in. There is
nothing there for the entrances for a street. They even have an entrance to a
person's house into their front yard that is right on Ten Mile. Please explain to
me why everybody has been talking about the damage, the traffic issue, it has to
be resolved before anybody -- anything happens and nobody listens to us.
Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Appreciate you being here.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes. Ma'am.
Cavener: Claire?
Chapple: Oh, I got a question.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 10 of 28
Cavener: Yes.
Chapple: Yea. I will take them all.
Cavener: One, because I wanted to make sure you knew we were listening to
you, so --
Chapple: Oh.
Cavener: But I'm just curious, what -- what's your suggested solution?
Chapple: Thank you. My solution has always been we need an exit out of the
subdivision onto Ten Mile. It doesn't have to be a light, it just needs to have a --
so that people out of the subdivision can make a right onto Ten Mile going north
without going on to one street. That Chateau Street is taking -- going to take the
brunt of all the traffic. You have got to have another exit. Now, that -- that is also
directly across from a street in the subdivision on the other side of the Ten Mile.
Now, they could do it, why can't this subdivision have an exit onto Ten Mile?
Disregarding a light. I don't care.
Cavener: Thank you. I appreciate it.
Chapple: Thank you very much. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Peggy Gardner signed up against. Good evening.
Gardner: Good evening.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Gardner: Peggy Gardner. 2156 West Chateau.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Gardner: And I know this is going to be developed and I'm not against the
development. I do think the lot sizes need to be larger, so that we do have
comparable values. My -- my issue is that with the density that they have got,
that -- and pouring it all onto Chateau, it is going to be a safety hazard. The
people I have talked to -- you talk about 40 mile an hour speeds on that straight
stretch there and it's quite frequent. So, I'd like to see some dips in the road,
something in order to slow the traffic down, because it is a hazardous spot,
especially coming up to the park there. I know that the fire trucks use that and
having used the fire trucks a few times and the ambulances, I u nderstand that we
want to keep the road clear, but something needs to slow the traffic down and if
stop signs won't do it, I get a dip in the roadway. So, I'd like to see smaller
density -- or I mean larger density -- I will get this right in a minute. Fewer
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 11 of 28
houses and -- so that it doesn't impact the traffic as much and the safety of the
citizens that live there. They are stacking already when there is the school bus
that comes right there on Ten Mile and so it's not a safe condition. There is
people parked there and the road really isn't wide enough and I know they are
widening it, but I don't think they are going to widen it enough to where it's not
going to impact, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you, Peggy. Any questions? No. Thank you. Randy
Witt. Good evening. Thank you for joining us.
Witt: Randy Witt. I live in 2823 West Kandice in Sunburst and I guess first thing
is thank all of you for being here tonight. I do appreciate that the developer did
take some time and redo the map and I also did want to say this at the start. My
background is mostly small town midwest, smaller than Meridian. So, Meridian is
big town for me and it is also my first experience with city government and I didn't
know coming in what it was going to be like. I mean the communities I was in
you could expect there would be interaction. I was pleased to last time find that
there seemed to be people on the Council that did understand our viewpoint, that
it wasn't just -- up until that point I hadn't and so it's just a thank you again. It
makes -- I had -- before last Council's meeting debated is it even worth trying to
do something with city government or is it just big they don't care and I
appreciated coming here and feeling that there were people that were listening.
So, I mean I was to -- I was close. I said is it worth coming and doing something
with city government. So, that's just a thank you. As regarding the plan, I'm --
I'm -- you know, my wish would be that there were fewer houses, but I'm not
going to say keep going back forever. I do -- I'm curious about where your
definition of lot size -- what you based that on, because, again, coming from the
midwest, an 8,000 square foot lot would have been kind of small in the towns I
was in. I mean I lived just in an average house and I think mine was closer to
10,000 and so 8,000 or 5,000, I mean we live in 8,000 some now, but it does
seem a little bit -- going 5,000 seems small, but, like I said, ultimately my biggest
concern is -- you know, we -- there is many of us that are homeowners there. I
don't know how many border that. Maybe a couple hundred in the subdivision.
You know, we have all invested money in those houses and none of that equals
what the developer individually spent, but I bet we probably a ll spent that much in
toto and we keep investing in our houses and we -- my wife and I do a lot of
landscaping and we invest a lot of money and we invest a lot of our lives into that
and -- and a developer will come, build the houses, and go on and we will live
with whatever the results are five years down the road, ten years down the road,
and we hope to still be there and so with ever y decision you make that's all I ask
you to take into account. If this plan looks good to you, then, I abide by that. I
mean I just -- that's the only thing I have to say. Yeah. And, again, I appreciate
that we can come and speak and feel like there are people that are hearing what
we are saying.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 12 of 28
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Those are the folks that signed up. Is there
anyone else who like to provide testimony? Yes, ma'am. Thank you. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Hoberg: Deborah Hoberg. 2254 North Swainson Avenue on the corner of
Chateau and Swainson in Meridian, Idaho. Thank you for meeting tonight. I
know you weren't scheduled to. Madam Mayor, thank you. Everyone that spoke
tonight spoke very real concerns and I'm behind every one of them and the
gentleman that spoke tonight about the comps, I really appreciate that. At th e
very first neighborhood meeting they had for this, which was at the school there
off of Chateau, I was told that it's going in and there is nothing I can do about it.
And that was from the representative that was there that night for the builder and,
you know, that's a fact, she said that, because I remember I said really? Well, I
don't know. Can we do something about it? We are homeowners and if they put
a 158,000 dollar home in across the street from my house that will affect my
comps. My comps -- my range of my house right now is at 230,000 if I was to
sell right now, but not if that home goes in across the street and I was also told
by the representative that a 24,000 square home will sell for a 20,000 square foot
home. That's funny. Mine is 1,780 square feet. If it was in Bridgetower I could
sell it for an additional 100,000. Simple as that. So, the comps do matter and we
lost a lot of value in our homes there in the depression or recession, whatever
you want to call it, where homes were being repo'd and just sold off. So, a lot of
the comps went down. We are finally getting back up to where. Not completely,
but close. The taxes went up, but my comps haven't gone up that far and --
which they did go up this year, the taxes. But the thing is those comps are going
to affect us and R-8 does not fit the neighborhoods there. They just don't. Those
are little tiny homes with 50 square foot -- of 50 diameter lots that are going to be
facing mine in the backs of them and that's going to affect m y comps. I'm
retiring. I'm retired I should say. That home, when I'm too old to take care of it,
is going to have to be sold and I have got my full life's investment invested in that
house and I'm 65, so I don't have too far to go before I will be goin g into a senior
development and I need to have those comps there. This subdivision is going to
knock our comps down and I do want to thank everybody for speaking tonight on
behalf of Kentfield and surrounding neighborhoods and I want to thank you all for
listening.
De Weerd: Thank you. Good evening.
Fulkerson: Thank you, Mayor. David Fulklerson. 2370 North Morello. So, my
one comment is I'm concerned about the traffic and most of that being what's
going to dump out at Chateau in that Morello intersection there. When you try to
get out of that street coming south on Morello, the park, the Chateau Park, there
is a natural jog in the street, so it's very hard to see anybody coming down that
street. We have had several cases where there has been som e cars -- wrecks
there. I think with an outlet dumping across -- straight across from there it's
going to be near impossible for anybody to get out on that street if you have to
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 13 of 28
worry about traffic coming the other way as well. So, I think what we are go ing to
find out with this density of homes in that area is that you're going to shove a lot
of traffic onto the adjoining neighborhoods, people are going to have to go out
the other end of it, which is going to cause traffic issues for the subdivisions nor th
of that, because there is going to be virtually no way to get out of there. Plus
everybody coming out of there, Ten Mile is hard enough to get out on already, so
most of those people are going to have to make a right and go through the
subdivision, go out the other part of Chateau, which just impacts all the people on
the -- on the east side of the subdivision as well.
De Weerd: Thank you. Additional testimony? Okay. I would ask the
representative if you would like to respond to -- to some of the questions or
comments and make your final remarks.
Suggs: Yes. Thank you very much again. Jane Suggs representing Trilogy
Development and Brinegar Prairie. One of the things -- I'm going to talk a little bit
about values and what I have been talking about are assessed values and they
are different from sales values. So, if someone says our home is 230,000,
because they have had an appraisal, that's a sales value , even though the
assessed value might be quite a bit lower than that. The information I have
presented on Chesterfield were assessed values. They were not the sales
prices. Those are assessed. So, they would be lower than what we might see.
Now, I did the four nice size homes, the two story, with two car garages, but I
also wanted to make sure that I didn't get challenged that -- you're not showing
any small homes, so I did show a small home, but I would hate for us to base all
of our discussion on that one small home. I'm going to actually right now ask you
to look at another part of that jump drive that shows adjacent parcels to Brinegar.
So, this is in response to questions again. So, I'm providing some new
information, hopefully this will work as a response to the comments from the
neighbors. I actually did an assessment of the surrounding properties and I listed
them -- I listed the values that were tax values and I listed the living space areas.
So, you will see that there is -- and this doesn't include garages, because, you
know, assessed value doesn't -- well, it takes into account the garage, but we are
talking about living spaces and when I'm talking about Chesterfield, I'm also
talking about living spaces. If you will scroll down to the bottom you will see that
the average value of the home -- of all the homes surrounding us average
assessed value is 170,000 dollars and the average square footage is just almost
1,600 square feet. So, there is quite a range there, of course. There is some
homes that have tax values of over 200 and there are a few that are in the
150,000 dollar tax value range. And, again, I want to make -- it's important to
know these are assessed values, not what someone would sell those houses for,
because they are great houses and they will sell for probably more than that, just
like Chesterfield would. I want to address Mr. Matson. He was talking about the
surrounding densities for the subdivisions that were between 3.6 and 3.8 dwelling
units per acre. With our change we are now are 4.11 dwelling units per acre in
an R-8 zone. So, we are -- we have dropped our -- our density -- our gross
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 14 of 28
density again to 4.11, which is still very much in the Comprehensive Plan for
medium density residential. Mr. Bentley said that there was no contemplation of
having any kind of R-8 homes here and I would only beg to say that the
Comprehensive Plan very much does plan for R-8 homes. R-8 is smack dab in
the middle of medium density residential, which is what is called for by this
Comprehensive Plan for Meridian. He also was concerned about rights and Mr.
-- Council Member Palmer asked about rights and Mr. Bentley was true -- it's
true, everyone has a right to develop, but also neighbors have their rights as well
and you protect those rights by making sure that we are building to your
Comprehensive Plan and we are building to your subdivision ordinance and we
are doing those things. So, we feel like those are some of the rights that you
carry for the neighbors. I'm sorry Mrs. Chapple felt that I was difficult. I think I do
remember talking to her on the phone and her c oncern was taking traffic to Ten
Mile and you have heard ACHD that as a five lane arterial and we will not be able
to get access from this subdivision to Ten Mile Road. No one -- no number of
lots would be able to do that. Chateau is a collector street a nd by design and by
definition it collects the traffic from neighborhoods and, then, takes it to the
arterial street. I think one of the things that we have failed to kind of talk about a
little bit -- and Mrs. Gardner talked about the street and the traf fic and the safety,
the curb, gutter, and sidewalk I think will very well define the street. I won't say
that that will slow traffic down, but it certainly will give a boundary. Right now
there is no -- there is no curb, gutter and sidewalk on that edge and I think a lot of
people think I'm on a country road and I can go faster or something, but I'm
hoping that the curb, gutter and sidewalk will at least provide a safe haven for
people walking, especially for the kids and curb, gutter and sidewalk will de fine
the street area and we are building that as a 36 foot standard subdivision street
according to ACHD. And I do agree with Mr. Witt, thank you very much for
listening, because it's really nice to be able to have this conversation with you.
And, again, just wanted to make sure that we are -- when we talk about values,
we were talking about assessed values and not what someone would sell their
house for, so -- if you will pull up maybe that other -- those other houses. If you
have questions I will answer some questions, but I hope you will understand that
we have been very careful about this and I apologize if someone thinks I came
across as being so certain. I'm never certain that a project can be approved, but
I do respectfully request your approval of this project with the changes that we
have made. Meeting your comp plan, meeting your zoning ordinance, meeting
your subdivision ordinance and agreeing to all the conditions of approval.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Suggs: Thank you.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 15 of 28
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jane, revised seven. What's the date? I have got a date on every other
revision and I want a date on seven. What's the date you revised it, for the
record.
Suggs: Let's see. When was our last hearing?
Bird: It better be on the original.
Beach: The last hearing was the 17th of March.
Suggs: Okay. 22nd.
Bird: March 22nd?
Suggs: March 22nd.
Bird: Madam Mayor, follow up, please. And on your assessed values, what -- is
this subdivision that you are getting these off from, are those R-8 lots or R-4 lots?
Suggs: R-8.
Bird: R-8. So, the lots -- and, then, the ones you gave on your earlier one, was
that in the R-4 subdivisions?
Suggs: Those are -- those would be in R-8 size lots, 5,000 and above and, then,
some that were --
Bird: No. The one -- when you had -- by the list of the houses surrounding this --
Suggs: Yes.
Bird: -- proposed -- now, those are all R-4 lots; right?
Suggs: Yes, they are.
Bird: And they are -- and they are included in the price of the house?
Suggs: Yes.
Bird: You got that, but they are R-4 lots. They are the 8,000 lots or bigger?
Suggs: Yes. Those are all surrounding us and those lots are all R-4. Now, one
of the gentlemen said, you know, he has an R-4 lot, but it's 7,800 square feet, so,
you know, there is some adjustment to that, I think, so --
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 16 of 28
Bird: But you know the lot is part of the assessed value, too, so --
Suggs: Right.
Bird: But -- and an R-4 lot is going to assess -- be more than what -- by square
footage, because they do it by square foot and -- so the house -- price of the
house is -- is going to be a little different.
Suggs: May I comment about that?
Bird: Sure. You bet. That's why I --
Suggs: Councilman Bird, Thank you for your assessment of that. I did not break
out the value of the home versus -- look at every assessment, because you can
look at assessment notices and it breaks out the value of the home versus the
value of the lots. I think the lots here will probably maybe even be more valuable
no matter what size. However, I do -- don't do things that -- because we are at
Ten Mile Road and Chateau, you're not going to see additional value on large
lots. I mean you are talking about build ing larger lots and this is when you get
into that question about whether or not it makes sense to build larger lots with
larger homes, unless you have got -- when you're at these busy streets and so --
and so R-8 seems to be the right way to go, except for those surrounding those
adjacent to the other subdivisions.
Bird: But not ever being a developer, we -- we buy the ground by square footage
and we sell the lots by square footage cost. If I have got an 8,000 square foot lot
I have got to get more than if I have a 4,000 square foot lot; is that not right?
Suggs: I would disagree in a subdivision where it -- a lot of it depends on the
house. You might have a house with a 5,700 square foot lot, which we have
some of those, next to a lot that's 7,500 square feet, but it really depends on the
house that you're going to be putting on that lot on value. You're not going to pay
a whole extra for that larger lot -- you may. When the developer sells to the
builder he may, but the builder is going to build something and he has to value
that home and lot at a certain value that will sell. So, he might not always get the
same -- he may get the same amount for the lot, because of the types of housing
he's building. So, I mean when you're talking housing and lots, it's not exactly a
square foot -- oh, I'm going to get more for this particular house, because it's on a
larger lot. I mean I have seen that in lots of -- I mean I live in a little lot in a little
house, but it's worth -- because of the house -- more than some of the larger lots
in my neighborhood. But, yes, we can agree to disagree on that, but I think --
Bird: That's fine. You have done it, I haven't.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 17 of 28
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Jane, two weeks ago you touched briefly about some of your
interactions with the school district related to busing. It seemed like that at the
end of our meeting a couple weeks ago that maybe you or some citizens were
going to maybe work proactively with the school district to see if there is a
potential resolution. So, if you could update the Council on your efforts since
then?
Suggs: I have to say I haven't followed up with the school district, but I have
talked to Mike Matson, who was seeming to have a little bit better interaction with
the bus company. The bus company saying they would just do whatever they
were told to do, but they would be willing to drive to -- down the collector streets
and not necessarily stop on the arterials, but I haven't been able to get any
further than being told that that's where the buses stop now. They could change
at anytime. I could build a bus stop, but it wasn't going to be where the buses
were going to go, so -- yeah. But I am willing to work -- I know there was some
discussion about putting that as a condition or whoever we can get to see if we
can make that change and it might mean working with you, too.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council? Okay. Anything further for Ada
County Highway District? I guess I should have asked that before we had the
applicant come up. So, Justin, I think you might have a question here. Thank
you for being here.
Lucas: Thank you. For the record Justin Lucas representing Ada County
Highway District. Business address is 3775 Adams Street, Garden City, Idaho.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor. Justin, for everybody's clarification, would you explain why
ACHD has no problem with this density and what it takes to get a stop light or
stops in it and what the role of ACHD is and what the city is regarding traffic?
Lucas; Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, thank you. As you know, ACHD has
jurisdiction over all of the roadways in the City of Meridian, excluding the state
highway system. Through the development process all of the applications start
at the City of Meridian. ACHD is not a lead agency in this process. We are a
recommending body. So, when an application comes to you it is transmitted to
us and we perform a -- a technical analysis that you have in your staff report
based on the established policies and procedures of the Ada County Highway
District. Now, those policies and procedures include things like how much traffic
is allowable on a certain type of street. The analysis includes the need for
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 18 of 28
signalization of intersections, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. There is all kinds of
things that are looked at. On these types of projects, which we would considered
an in-fill project where the only thing the applicant is doing to the existing street
system is basically finishing parts of Chateau and, then, really on Ten Mile the
sidewalk -- the pedestrian facilities there, were put in by the Ada County Highway
District when we widened that street. And, then, obviously, the internal streets
that are being proposed by the applicant. So, ACHD looks at all of those
different conditions and based on the different warrants and technical analysis
that we go through, we make a recommendation to the City of Meridian on the
project. Now, traffic, as you know, I mean everyone has a different perception of
what that is and how we are suppose d to deal with it. The highway district has
established policies and thresholds based on national best practices. For
example, a collector street, although some people would argue that a collector
street should only have a certain amount of traffic, ACHD establishes a threshold
that this is the amount of traffic that is allowable on a collector street. In this
instance we found that the traffic proposed by this subdivision did not push the
traffic on Chateau above the adopted standards and thresholds. Therefore,
when we come to you and in the report we recommend that it seems appropriate
to allow this subdivision, based on the traffic numbers we expect, to use Chateau
as it's primary access to Ten Mile Road, just like many of the subdivisions in the
past that would come in and were built along this corridor use Chateau as their
primary entrance onto Ten Mile. And as you're aware -- you're familiar I live in
this square mile and very familiar with it. There are other streets to get out to
Linder and Todd. There is Todd. There is Chateau which connects to Linder on
the other side. Some parts of Chateau have front-on housing, some parts do not.
And all of that is over time, as regulations and requirements have changed -- as
you know it's a very fast growing city and we try to keep up as best we can with --
with all the growth here. But Chateau over time there was a decision that new
development, especially along -- along this portion, that we would not allow front-
on housing, which is driveways going right onto Chateau, because everyone
anticipates that this is going to be a collector street that's collecting traffic from a
portion of this square mile. Is it perfect that this st reet is so straight? I will be
very honest with you, probably not. That is not an ideal situation. And so that's --
but can this developer solve that problem? I don't believe so, because Chateau
is basically established in its alignment. Are there things that the Ada County
Highway District can do to mitigate speed on a street like this? Absolutely. You
can put out the speed -- the monitor that shows you your speed. There can be
enforcement -- enforcement efforts coordinating with the City of Meridian Police
Department to monitor speed here and issue citations. ACHD has no ability to
do that. Certainly the police department does. So, there are ways that we can
monitor and mitigate the speeds. I think it is a true statement that establishing a
pedestrian facility on the south side of this street helps, because it gives people a
place to walk. Right now on the north side it's a five foot attached sidewalk. On
the south side I believe the sidewalk will be detached and separated from the --
from Chateau. So, you will -- pedestrians will have more options to connect out
to Ten Mile, down to the Walgreens or the Al bertsons or where ever they are
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 19 of 28
headed. So, ACHD in this situation -- we don't try to provide a judgment on the
quality of the development, we try to provide you with a technical analysis based
on best standards and practices that we have established that are based on
national best practices. I don't know if that completely answers your question. I
probably spoke too much, but I can certainly take anymore questions you have.
Bird: Justin, that is -- that is one of the greatest explanations I have listened to in
18 years. I appreciate it and I hope the public and the other Council people that
haven't heard that before understands, because we don't control traffic. We do
not control traffic. You guys do and you do a very good job. Thank you.
Little Roberts: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Little Roberts.
Little Roberts: Justin, when you were talking about traffic being appropriate for
Chateau, are those numbers based on peak traffic or average? What are those
numbers?
Lucas: So, Madam Mayor, Council Member Little Roberts, there are two types of
analysis that ACHD does. One we look at the peak hour, which you would think
it's between 5:00 and 6:00, it's actually in community not quite there, but the rush
hour in the afternoon and in your packet I believe the counts on Chateau in that
hour are around a hundred cars when you go out there and count them and so
-- and, then, on a daily level we count the traffic and I believe the traffic on
Chateau is just north of 1,000 cars per day. Now, collector streets, based on the
standards that we have established, can handle a lot -- more traffic than that.
Some collectors carry up to 5,000 cars a day and I'm not saying that Chateau
with this development is going to carry 5,000 cars a day. I doubt Chateau will
ever carry that much traffic, because the development around it just doesn't --
just doesn't push that much traffic onto Chateau. But, once again, you know, we
are very sensitive to the concerns of the neighborhood and understand that with
new development there is going to be more cars on Chateau. I can't deny that.
Will it be noticeably different? Some people are going notice it, some people
aren't and that's just the way it is, because everyone has a different perception of
what is traffic and how things work on the roadways.
De Weerd: Justin, with this new subdivision going in, isn't this the time to really
look at mitigation to the speed of traffic along that -- that straight stretch? I lived
there. I drive that. People do speed whether it's fully improved or just a portion
of that road improved. It's -- it is fast speed and you would think that this is the
opportunity to put in something that would help slow that down.
Lucas: Madam Mayor, certainly ACHD can perform speed studies and do
analysis on -- on existing streets to see what's the best approach. With -- I will
just be very honest, with the issue of what mitigati on is appropriate, there is a
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 20 of 28
vast division, often among the neighborhood of what they want. Although some
people think, well, speed bumps is the answer and that's what everybody wants,
that is not oftentimes the case when you actually talk to the people who live and
use the street.
De Weerd: Well, yeah, they are the ones speeding down the street.
Lucas: Well, I -- I didn't say that, Madam Mayor, so I'm not going to go that
direction, but typically a street like Chateau is used by the neighborhood or the
people that live around the street. There is no doubt about that.
De Weerd: I know. I tried getting speed bumps down on the other side where
the driveways do dump right onto that road and, you're right, you could get half of
them that want the speed bumps and half that don't want anything to do with
them.
Lucas: It can be a complex issue.
De Weerd: The speed bump supporters are the ones that live directly on there.
The ones that don't are the ones that don't live directly on there. Any other
questions for -- for Justin at this point from Council? Okay. Thank you.
Lucas: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Does the applicant have any final words? You do have the
last word, so want to be sure if you have a last word we will offer it. Okay. Okay.
Council, any questions for the staff? If there is nothing further --
Cavener: Mayor, just a quick question for staff. On -- on our agenda it lists 96
lots and the applicant said it's 93 lots. Is that lot because it's a continuance from
our meeting --
Beach: So, if you read a little closer, there -- under summary of request, they are
now requesting 93 lots -- single family residential and four common lots.
Previously it was 95. You're right.
Cavener: Okay. Great. Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing nobody needs anymore public testimony or have anymore
questions, I move we close the public hearing on H-2015-0045.
Cavener: Second.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 21 of 28
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on I tem 3.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Nary, we will be passing the annexation and zoning first and, then, the
preliminary plat? Not together; right?
Nary: Yes. You can do them together or you can do them separately.
Bird: Okay.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe a comment or two and, then, I will try and meander a motion. I
really appreciate the testimony on this issue and I appreciate Council coming
back for a special meeting on this particular issue and that testimony is both the
public and the applicant. I had mentioned to Mr. Tewell earlier this is kind of how
sausage is made and sometimes it's pretty, most of the time it's not, but we value
the public process. I have really went back and forth personally on -- on this
particular issue. I think we have some members of our body that like
development, unless proven otherwise. There are other members of our Cou ncil
that don't necessarily want to change anything unless proven otherwise, and
sometimes there is a few of us that kind of sway back and forth and, you k now,
it's hard not to compare apples to oranges in this area, but most of the
neighborhoods are over 20 years old that surrounds it. So, inevitably, whatever
lands here is going to be different and it's going to impact the people that have
lived there before and so for me what I have weighted -- does this project meet
the merits of what we as a community say is important and, you know, as a
Council we can't base a decision on are products going to impact property values
positively or negatively. We have to rely on our plan to say this is what's best for
our community and I think in this particular instan ce the -- the developer has
worked tirelessly to address some of the concerns from the community that --
that they can address and they can impact and so for me, recognizing there is
never going to be something that will ever be built that will match the s ame value
of something that was built 20 years previous, I mean I think this is our -- our
second best option and so what I would like to do -- and maybe I will get a
second, maybe I won't, is in line with Mr. Nary's feedback I move that we approve
request for annexation and the preliminary plat for H-215-0046 and if I can tie the
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 22 of 28
elevations and the design standards of the homes presented in testimony within
the preliminary plat.
Palmer: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion? Mr. Bird.
Bird: Madam Mayor. Would you include in your motion that the revised
preliminary plat is March 22nd, 2016? Because there is no date on this copy we
have got and make sure that that date gets to the original that's at our plan,
because I don't want the 3/7/2016 --
Palmer: I would agree with that.
Cavener: Second agrees?
Palmer: Yeah.
De Weerd: Okay. I guess I remain concerned about the speedway along that --
that stretch and do see it as an opportunity, as we are looking at this plat and
with road improvements along there going in, that there is speed mitigation as
part of this. Would you consider that as part of your motion?
Cavener: Madam Mayor, clarification. Maybe if you could extrapolate a little bit
more about speed mitigation and specifically you're referring to as.
De Weerd: I guess in working with Ada County Highway District to find a method
to -- to slow traffic along that -- I don't know if it's a fifth of a mile stretch, but it's a
straightaway that has a lot of concern whether it is a dip in the road at least at
some point, but it's a very legitimate concern and this is an opportunity to
perhaps tie it into adding more trips to this road.
Cavener: Madam Mayor? I know just enough about traffic engineering t o be
dangerous. I caution about saying specifically what to include, but I think that the
applicant and ACHD are committed to always working on traffic issues. I would
imagine that you would be willing to work with our police department and have
maybe some increased enforcement over in that area and the radar machines,
so that we can be mitigating speeds in that aspect as well. But it sounds like to
me that the applicant and ACHD are willing to work on traffic mitigation as well.
De Weerd: If -- as a condition of approval if you can ask for the applicant, ACHD,
and our police department to get together and look at this . I know it's hard to tie
a specific recommendation in, but at least to have the condition that the
discussion -- and maybe even include someone from the HOA with Kentfield and
-- to be a part of it. I know it's a messy suggestion and very vague, but it is the
opportunity.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 23 of 28
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Cavener: A question maybe for Mr. Nary. Because it can be somewhat messy,
are we able to instruct ACHD to work with an applicant on traffic mitigation?
De Weerd: I would love to instruct ACHD to --
Cavener: I know you would love to, but I just don't know if it's within our ability.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Cavener, I
guess technically, no, you can't really direct ACHD, but you can direct the
applicant and the applicant's already agreed to do that. I guess what I wanted to
clarify in your motion, since you talked about this particular rendering, this
particular plat that you have tonight, so at least to maybe make it clear you're
talking about the plat that has 93 buildable lots and 14 common lots, which you
have discussed, and, then, secondarily you're wanting a development agreement
to tie the -- the examples of the types of buildings or homes that are going to be
built in this be included as part of a development agreement, which would also
include this language about -- considering traffic mitigation.
Cavener: Yes. Well, you did a much better job at summarizing that than I did.
Yes.
Nary: That's what I thought I heard you say.
Cavener: Well, you're very astute. That's exactly what I said.
De Weerd: And if that's what you made your second to; correct?
Palmer: Yeah. Exactly.
De Weerd: Okay.
Palmer: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: In my very scientific traffic study mind, I see that when there is more
cars on the road traffic is lower, so aren't we inherently approving traffic calming
by approving more vehicles to be on the road?
De Weerd: You asked the question. I would say in my nonscientific answer no.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 24 of 28
Palmer: Okay.
De Weerd: Especially since you have no frontage of the homes out onto the
roadway, so it won't make a difference in my nonscientific opinion. Just because
you asked. Any further conversation? And we will follow up with the applicant if
this is to pass to get this item in front of our transportation commission and have
a conversation there.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Is there -- in further discussion, in light of Mr. Nary's comments, is there
an opportunity to tie a requirement within the development agreement for those
conversations -- that cooperative effort to occur amongst those parties, perhaps
the commission as well, and a report being provided to the city concurrently with
the final plat, so there is some deadline on it prior to any construction of any
property there, we can see that all those efforts have occurred?
Nary: Yes. We can do that. I mean -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council,
Council Member Borton, I mean we -- what we would be doing is we are going to
craft the development agreement and, obviously, they will have an opportunity to
respond and such, but I certainly don't see any reason we cannot tie that type of
at least report, which could be -- there is anything anybody wants to do -- I mean
from one extreme to another prior to final plat. I don't see objection to that, so --
if we run into a hitch we will run in to a hitch at the -- at the front end of the
discussion and the development agreement before anything else is approved, so
-- and before the annexation even occurs. So, we will have that conversation
and we will certainly include that type of language.
Borton: Madam Mayor. It just seems that having that side board and deadline is
consistent with the representations of the applicant and the parties to continue to
have those discussions in good faith and we hope they do so with the
neighborhood.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I have a problem of us putting a stipulation on something that we really
don't have any control over. The problem I see is if we -- if we go ahead and -- I
don't know how I'm going to vote right now, yea or nay, but if we go ahead and
put these stipulations on the DA regarding ACHD and stuff like that, which we
have no control over and it don't work out, are we saying the project don't go?
We -- I mean we got to have something to stand by our findings if we are going to
pass it or if we are going to deny it and I don't -- I don't see how we can tie
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 25 of 28
something that we don't have any control over to the passing of annexation and
zoning. That's my personal opinion.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, I guess we have done it in the past where we have made it
a condition upon approval of Ada County Highway District that go in and
sometimes they have approved it and sometimes they haven't and it's taking their
-- their authority and making them the final decision maker on that, but having
that as a condition, so it was followed up with.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I don't recall -- and, like I said, I probably don't have the best memory alive,
but I don't -- I don't recall us ever putting a stipulation like on that. We have
asked them to work with it, but we have never put it as a stipulation of approval,
to my knowledge.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I think -- and I don't know if this
helps, Mr. Bird. All we would be doing is putting a condition in the development
agreement that requires the applicant to the take some action. Now, ACHD may
respond with no actions required. They may respond with build an overhead
lane. Whatever it is. I have no idea. The applicant has the ability to come back
to you to say what they have asked for is unreasonable, it makes no sense to us,
we can't afford it and this Council can decide how to apply it. All you're requiring
at the moment is to -- I guess memorialize the commitment they have already
made that they will work with the school district, they will work with the traffic
people, they will work to try to make this the best fit for this neighborhood as they
can do. That's all you really are directing them to do is they have to do
something. If they come back to you for final plat, the first question before they
submit their final plat that planning is going to ask is what's your proof that you
did this? You know, give us a letter, because that's kind of the standard. Get a
letter from ACHD saying we have met, we have discussed it, we don't feel it's
right at this time or it is right at this time to do X or Y. So, I don't see it as a
problematic concern from an enforcement standpoint, Mr. Bird. I think really
you're putting the onus on the developer to take some action and to provide you
proof that they did that. If they request -- or the recommendation is totally in
ACHD's authority to recommend what to do, if anything, and all you're asking
them to do is to actually follow through and do that.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 26 of 28
Bird: Bill, then, if we put it on as a condition of approval, like you said, then,
when they come back and it don't -- it don't get worked out and something -- do
we have to do a modified development agreement then?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bird, the
direction will simply be for them to work with the highway district to look at traffic
mitigation for Chateau. The highway district may tell you no mitigation is required
or it's not required at this time or what warrants are necessary for them to require
mitigation. Whether they would, then, required potentially maybe this
development to bond for a future improvement based on what warrants and
whatever requirements might exit at some point in the future. I just don't really
know. All you're going to be requiring is they have to do something before their
final plat gets approved to show they have actually at least had the discussion
and looked at alternatives that they would be responsible for under the impact of
their development.
Bird: And Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Bill, I agree -- I agree with that, but I hate tying it to the development
agreement. I'd -- just a suggestion to have them work with it, but -- and we have
done that before, but -- whatever. Whatever the motion of the maker -- or maker
of the motion wants.
De Weerd: And that was part of the motion; correct?
Cavener: Correct.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further discussion?
Borton: Madam Mayor, just --
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Maybe to -- for some clarity. The intent of the comment was just to
memorialize that the discussion was to occur, not to delegate some authority to
ACHD or the neighborhood or any third party to have a final say of X or Y shall
be done and if a developer doesn't like it it comes back. That's not what's
happened. It's merely a requirement that we will be shown confirmation that
those dialogues have occurred between all parties.
Cavener: To me that's where I'm at.
Borton: That's it.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 27 of 28
De Weerd: Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird; nay; Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea;
Little Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Thank you to the neighbors and to the applicant for working with us.
Item 4: Executive Session Per Idaho State Code 74-206A (1)(a) and 74-
206(1)(a): 74-206A (1)(a): All Negotiations Between A
Governing Body And A Labor Organization Shall Be In Open
Session And Shall Be Available For The Public To Attend. This
Requirement Also Applies To Negotiations Between The
Governing Body's Designated Representatives And
Representatives Of The Labor Organization. This Requirement
Shall Also Apply To Meetings With Any Labor Negotiation
Arbitrators, Mediators Or Similar Labor Dispute Meeting
Facilitators. Provided, However, A Governing Body Or Its
Designated Representatives May Hold An Executive Session
For The Specific Purpose Of: Considering A Labor Contract
Offer Or To Formulate A Counteroffer; AND 74-206 (1)(a) To
consider hiring a public officer, employee, staff member or
individual agent, wherein the respective qualities of
individuals are to be evaluated in order to fill a particular
vacancy or need. This paragraph does not apply to filling a
vacancy in an elective office or deliberations about staffing
needs in general
De Weerd: Okay. Item No. 4 is Executive Session. Do I have a motion to
adjourn?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 74 -206(a) --
(1)(a) and 74-206(1)(a).
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session.
Madam Clerk, will you, please call roll.
Meridian City Council
March 29, 2016
Page 28 of 28
Roll Call: Bird; yea; Borton, yea; Milam, absent; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea;
Little Roberts, yea.
De Weerd: Okay. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (7:16 p.m. - 8:45 p.m.)
De Weerd: I would entertain a motion to come out of Executive Session.
Bird: So moved.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Do I have a motion to adjourn?
Bird: So moved.
Cavener: Second.
De Weerd: All those in favor? All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:45 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
q/
MAYOR T�OOY DE WEERD DATE APPROVED
ATTEST:
1 City of
�AYCE"OLMAN, CITY CLERK
S.F1i,7 : f
t ;�Y.
Ci
t
y
C
o
u
n
c
i
l
M
e
e
t
i
n
g
Ma
r
c
h
2
9
,
2
0
1
6
Br
i
n
e
g
a
r
P
r
a
i
r
i
e
Vi
c
i
n
i
t
y
M
a
p
Or
i
g
i
n
a
l
Pr
o
p
o
s
e
d
P
l
a
t
Re
v
i
s
e
d
Pr
e
l
i
m
i
n
a
r
y
Pl
a
t
Co
u
n
c
i
l
ch
a
n
g
e
s
t
o
Pr
e
l
i
m
i
n
a
r
y
Pl
a
t
Bu
i
l
d
i
n
g
E
l
e
v
a
t
i
o
n
s
Adjacent Parcels to Brinegar Prairie Home Size (sf)
Parcel Primary OwnerProperty Address Subdivision Total Value living space
R1819350220 SPENCER RODNEY C2101 N MAN O WAR WAY DEVLIN PLACE SUB 193,000 2030
R1819350250 MAKIN TIM L2165 N MAN O WAR WAY DEVLIN PLACE SUB 187,300 1961
R1819350260 SISEMORE DENNIS W2187 N MAN O WAR WAY DEVLIN PLACE SUB 180,400 2214
R1819350170 BROADBENT ROBERT J2782 W KANDICE CT DEVLIN PLACE SUB 158,700 1469
R1819350200 JOHNSON-FRECKLETON CONNIE2053 N MAN O WAR WAY DEVLIN PLACE SUB 206,200 2048
R1819350210 MARTIN TERRY K2085 N MAN O WAR WAY DEVLIN PLACE SUB 183,800 1701
R1819350240 MINOR LARRY E2143 N MAN O WAR WAY DEVLIN PLACE SUB 172,900 1531
R1819350230 RRL LLC2125 N MAN O WAR WAY DEVLIN PLACE SUB 168,600 1603
R4882720110 HOBERG DEBORAH L2254 N SWAINSON AVE KENTFIELD MANOR 179,500 1652
R4882720220 YOHNER LARRY & MARJORIE 2005 TRUST2999 W BONNER ST KENTFIELD MANOR 164,300 1436
R4882720230 VALLO MARK2971 W BONNER ST KENTFIELD MANOR 173,000 1436
R4882720210 CHAPPLE JEFFREY L3017 W BONNER ST KENTFIELD MANOR 168,900 1436
R4882720240 PEARSON DAREN S2943 W BONNER ST KENTFIELD MANOR 168,000 1424
R4882720320 STAGER DAVID J2259 N MORELLO AVE KENTFIELD MANOR 177,600 1454
R4882720250 BURKHARDT ROBERT R2919 W BONNER ST KENTFIELD MANOR 209,300 2230
R4882720180 POSEY DAVID C &3087 W BONNER ST KENTFIELD MANOR 179,000 1526
R4882720190 ZAGATA RANDY W3063 W BONNER ST KENTFIELD MANOR 175,300 1769
R4882720200 LOSHBAUGH DAVID L3041 W BONNER ST KENTFIELD MANOR 163,300 1436
R4882720331 HALL JAMES S2255 N SWAINSON AVE KENTFIELD MANOR 170,400 1379
R4882720580 ENGER MARK D2258 N MORELLO AVE KENTFIELD MANOR 192,000 1967
R8222210110 SCHOEN DANIEL D1971 N SWAINSON AVE SUNBURST SUB NO 04 156,800 1248
R8222210120 JOHNSON NED W3146 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 152,600 1362
R8222210160 BRYAN LYNN G3044 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 168,400 1806
R8222210220 JENKINS SHANE2892 W KANDICE CT SUNBURST SUB NO 04 154,500 1334
R8222210140 ML SUTHERLAND TRUST UTA3086 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 151,600 1336
R8222210150 WICKSTROM DENNIS3062 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 171,200 1796
R8222210170 WARD MIKE M3020 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 154,400 1420
R8222210180 NELSON KEITH E2986 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 169,700 1638
R8222210130 BURKHART MONTSERRAT M3118 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 159,000 1488
R8222210210 CUNNINGHAM PATRICK W2910 W KANDICE CT SUNBURST SUB NO 04 161,800 1471
R8222210240 PAGOAGA KENNETH C2850 W KANDICE CT SUNBURST SUB NO 04 149,000 1304
R8222210260 BEHREND JOHN C2836 W KANDICE CT SUNBURST SUB NO 04 173,800 1596
R8222210100 KINDALL TYLER J1957 N SWAINSON AVE SUNBURST SUB NO 04 161,300 1371
R8222210190 JEROME BONNIE L2962 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 157,800 1446
R8222210200 JARMAN BRIAN R2938 W KANDICE ST SUNBURST SUB NO 04 175,700 1638
R8222210230 WICKHAM MICHAEL S2864 W KANDICE CT SUNBURST SUB NO 04 153,300 1248
6,142,400 57,204
170,622 1,589
Avg value Avg SF
Chesterfield Subdivision
741 N. Kayden Way $194,200 2615 sf
693 N. Kayden Way $202,100 2577 sf
4103 W. Newland Street $176,000 2311 sf
768 N. Scotney Ave. $200,400 2603 sf
4319 W. Newland Street $157,400 1340 sf