HomeMy WebLinkAboutApril 29, 2004 P&Z MinutesMeridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 65 of 100
Moe: Including additional --
Zaremba: And it can be up to them whether it's a swale or something else.
Moe: Mr. Chairman?
Borup: Commissioner Moe.
-- Moe: I move that we forward to City Council recommending approval of PP 04-003,
request for Preliminary Plat approval of two building lots on 2.7 acres in an I-L zone for
Cafarelli Subdivision No. 2 by Shawn Fickes, 1950 West Franklin Road, to include all
staff comments and conditions of the hearing date March 18, 2004, with the following
changes. On Page 4 of the conditions of Preliminary Plat, second paragraph, there to
read sanitary sewer service shall be provided via independent grinder pumps. Oops.
Wait a minute. I'm reading my own stuff now. Shall be via independent grinder pump
stations on each lot. Strike a single pump and strike adjacent to the Franklin Road
frontage. Also on condition Number 16, add a sentence to include including additional
landscaping to -- including additional landscaping to access -- I just lost that. Excuse
me. Including additional landscaping until access has been agreed upon.
Zaremba: I'd second.
Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 13. Public Hearing: RZ 04-004 Request for a Rezone of 9.47 acres from R-
4 to L-O and R-15 zones for Southwoods Subdivision by Calderwood
Community, LLC - 2090 South Meridian Road:
Item 14. Public Hearing: PP 04-007 Request for Preliminary Plat approval for 15
building lots (14 office and 1 residential) and 1 common lot on 9.47 acres
in proposed R-15 and L-O zones for Southwoods Subdivision by
Calderwood Community, LLC - 2090 South Meridian Road:
Item 15. Public Hearing: CUP 04-008 Request for a Conditional Use Permit for a
Planned Development for office and assisted living in proposed R-15 and
L-O zones for Southwoods Subdivision by Calderwood Community, LLC
- 2090 South Meridian Road:
Borup: Thank you. Okay. We'd like to move on to our next application and I think we
have a few people that have stayed for this this evening. The reason this was at the
end is because it was a new Public Hearing the others were continued. We'd like to get
-- because of the hour we may or may not be able to get through everything this
evening, but we will get started and see how the evening progresses. I'd like to open
Public Hearing RZ 04-004, request for a Rezone for 9.47 acres from R-4 to L-O and R-
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 66 of 100
15 zones for Southwoods Subdivision and open Public Hearing PP 04-005, request for
Preliminary Plat approval for 15 building lots and one common lot on the same project
and Public Hearing CUP 04-008, request for a Conditional Use Permit for a planned
development office and assisted living in the proposed R-15 and L-O zones for
Southwoods Subdivision, with all three of these hearings open at this time, we'd like to
start with the staff report.
Powell: Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, this project was -- the staff
report was written assuming that the consistency matrix that you all recommended
approval of would have gotten approved Tuesday night. I wanted to give you an update
of what happened Tuesday night. The Council had a lot of discussion about whether
the matrix was proposing new policies or not and it really -- it was not. That was one
line of questioning that I received on the matter. But they had a question about whether
it was new policy and most of it was just putting existing goals and policies into a
graphic form. The one issue that was not as strongly supported by the text of the
document, though, was the provision that properties that were less than three acres in
size could request a light office designation, rather than the -- or if they were on a
collector or an arterial street. That footnote that we had on the consistency matrix was
kind of a new policy. There is some general support for that and Wendy will go in to
that in a little bit, but that was one line of questioning, whether it was new policy or if it
was just graphically depicting one. We talked about that at great length. Then, there
was great confusion regarding the Old Town District and zones versus uses and, then,
there was questioning along the lines of what kind of public participation did we do and
although we had talked about it with many people there was not a lot of support in the
record. There was actually none, other than our staff recommendation and your
recommendation. We were kind of weak on the public participation aspects. Given all
this line of questioning as the evening went on, it became that they were not
comfortable with it, especially in light of the fact that we were looking at redoing --
completely revamping the zoning ordinance and they felt that we'd have to go back and
redo this consistency matrix and they really didn't want to get in the habit of having to go
back and amend the Comprehensive Plan on a regular basis. I withdrew the application
after about a half hour of grilling and so it was not passed the other night and it was
assumed that that would pass for your staff report, but Wendy has written an update.
There are policies about it and I'll let her go into that now, but she asked me to give you
a rundown on what happened on City Council, so --
Borup: Thank you.
Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, I'll briefly run through kind of the
major components of the project and, then, I'll go through and analyze some of the
major issues we have before us tonight. The project is located at the southeast comer
of the intersection of Meridian Road and Calderwood Road. It is just to the south of
Southern Springs Subdivision. The project consists of 9.47 acres, which are currently
zoned as R-4. The applicant's proposing to Rezone 3.06 acres to L-O and the
remaining 6.22 acres to R-15. The project encompasses a Preliminary Plat for 19 lots,
including 14 L-O, Light Office lots, and four residential lots and one common lot. The
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 67 of 1 DO
applicant is also applying for a planned development and a Conditional Use Permit to
allow a reduction, in the frontage requirements for the L-O and I think that was -- oh.
Actually, to access the lots in the L-O off of a common drive. Now, I'm going to go
through in some more detail what the matrix issues are. Where we -- when I wrote the
staff report I was assuming that the matrix would be approved by the City Council,
because we had no opposition to the matrix and seemed to have a lot of support from it,
but I want to go through -- when we originally met with this applicant when they came in
with Southwoods Subdivision, they, actually, had three options for how to pursue the L-
Ozoning and the staff report is somewhat misleading in that it sounds like there is only
one way to do it. The first way would have been the matrix we thought that was the
cleanest way. That's off the table. The second way was to do a use exception through
the planned development. That actually doesn't meet the needs of the applicant and
how they want to configure the project. The third way to do this -- and I -- you should
have received a memo I wrote up today kind of explaining this. The third way to do this
-- we have done this in the past year on Southern Springs and on Office Jet Subdivision
-- is to make an interpretation of the Comprehensive Plan and I have included in the text
of my memo exactly where we are taking this interpretation from in the Comprehensive
Plan. To make an interpretation where if the subject property is adjoining an area with
Comprehensive Plan designation where we think it's appropriate to expand will be for
the reason the Comprehensive Plan is a guide and we are expanding that
Comprehensive Plan designation to include the subject property and this is, obviously,
something that is done on a case-by-case basis. We are not setting a precedent here,
but in this situation we feel that it's appropriate, considering directly to the north of
Calderwood Road we have a Comprehensive Plan designation of commercial and we
anticipate that that property will, while it's currently zoned RUT, will become a
commercial use and I think we actually have a developer who is interested in that
property this evening, you might want to ask him about that. Considering that
Comprehensive Plan designation immediately adjacent to the north and the property's
location on Meridian Road, it's very similar to the scenarios this past year, which I'll run
through where we made a similar interpretation. Let's see. The first of these -- this is
Office Jet. Office Jet had L-O zoning immediately to the north and some C-G zoning
that was to the south and to the east of the subject property, so we made the
interpretation that this was considering the location and the adjoining uses it was
appropriate to, essentially, expand that Comprehensive Plan designation to include
Office Jet. That was the -- and, then, more recently we saw this in their neighbor
Southern Springs where that red triangle you see, actually, to the north of the subject
property, had existing C-G zoning and the property immediately to the east, that kind of
half square we bumped out that Comprehensive Plan designation to include -- to
encompass -- to encompass that subject property and they went ahead and zoned
those C-G and in both of the scenarios, in Office Jet and in Southern Springs, they were
properties that had a Comprehensive Plan designation of residential and the
interpretation was made to expand either the L-0 or the C-G zoning. Staff -- staff is
very supportive of making a similar interpretation here for Southwoods. It's, obviously,
for. you to consider, but I wanted to explain that that is another way this applicant can
proceed with the L-O zoning and staff is fully supportive of it and we feel it's very -- it's
an appropriate interpretation in this case. I'll go through kind of what the L-O zone --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 68 of 100
portion of the project entails. It's 14 office lots they are proposing. They are mostly
going to be professional offices. We have a Preliminary Plat. We do not have a
detailed site plan, so they would be required to come through with CZCs for each of
these -- for each of these lots and that would be when we would go through and figure
out and make sure they had enough parking and all of those requirements for the L-O,
but -- so I'm going to go ahead and start with the second part of the project, the eastern
side, which includes an Alzheimer's facility and an assisted living center and an
independent living center. I don't know if you want to stop at this point. Do you have
any questions on that interpretation of the Comprehensive Plan or about the L-O
component of the project. Or shall I just continue?
Borup: Questions anyone? It sounds like we are fine.
Kirkpatrick: All right. The residential component of the project is it's on four -- proposed
four lots. It includes 72 residential units and by residential units I -- the applicant will
clarify this, but I believe that they mean 72 people will reside within this project. There
are two stand-alone buildings, an assisted living center, and an Alzheimer's living
center, which is on the northeast part on the east side of the canal. Additionally, there
are a number of four and six-plex lots, which are two on the southern part of the
property and those, are the independent living units. Actually, the reason the applicant
is -- has requested the R-15 zoning, they have an overall density of 90 and it's an acre,
but they couldn't request the independent living units, which are classified, technically,
as multi-family housing, without the R-15 zoning. That's, actually, why they have that
request here tonight and I believe that's part of the controversy here this evening. The
applicant met with myself and with the Police Chief several weeks ago regarding safety
concerns with the Alzheimer's center. The Police Chief had, you know, expressed
some concerns with an Alzheimer's center that wasn't strictly controlled with access,
that it can pose a danger to the Alzheimer's patients, but he came out with Doug Clegg,
one of the applicants, and was -- I think when he walked away he was really pretty
satisfied with the solutions they had come up with. There are wristbands that the
residents wear to restrict access out of the doors. The outside patio area in the back is
-- it's fenced where it's really impossible to get out. He will go through that. It's a pretty
comprehensive safety plan they have for the Alzheimer's center and I was really
impressed with it, I didn't know that these things existed. I'll go through some of the
other components here. The applicant is proposing for the residential component of the
site plan, they have submitted a complete site plan and they meet all of the parking and
landscaping requirements and all of the -- all of that -- the requirements for the R-15. I
wanted to emphasize that staff fully supports this component of the project, the
residential component. I think it's really important while we are, you know, dealing with
an aging population that we house these people in our community and I think it's -- it's
highly appropriate to have them in a residential location, rather than in a commercial
zone or a light office zone and I think that this configuration works really well with the
light office acting as kind of a buffer for Meridian Road for these residents and the
residents -- the residential living center and the Alzheimer's and assisted living,
independent living, being adjacent to an existing subdivision. I think it's a really nice
location and a good use. Do you have any questions of staff?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 69 of 700
Borup: Questions at this point? Okay. Is the applicant ready for their presentation?
Perez: Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission. My name is Rob
Perez. I reside at 4148 North Westview Way in Boise, Idaho. I am a member of
Calderwood Community, LLC, and the applicant for Southwoods Subdivision. I'd like to
take a moment and give you a brief overview as to how we arrived at the development
plan that has been so strongly recommended by your staff, followed by, with your
approval, brief comments by Doug Clegg, who is acquiring from Calderwood
Community 6.25 acres to the easterly portion of the property for the purpose of a senior
housing project and, then, brief comments by my colleague in Calderwood Community,
LLC, Scott Stewart, regarding the three acre L-O that we are requesting. When we first
heard about this property for sale, my partners and I showed an interest in acquiring it
and asked the sales agent what the highest and best use, in their opinion, of the
property would be and they indicated four-plexes, two story four-plexes for multi-story
apartments. Usually, when an agent represents the highest and best use, you know,
we find we often concur. However, when we inspected the site, we found a couple
things. One, we found that the traffic noise created by Highway 69 was, in our opinion,
a little limited factor for a substantial single family residential use. I should say asingle-
family residential use on a substantial portion of the property. We also determined that
Southern Springs -- the approval of Southern Springs commercial development really
changed the complexion of our property for a strict residential use. Those were our
opinions having inspected the property. We concluded the same thing that Wendy
mentioned, that a light office would be a nice buffer for any further residential use on the
back portion of the property. We also recognize -- and there is a number of people here
today who I respect, I'm a homeowner, you know, I -- neighbors are important to me as
well. We had two separate homeowners meetings, one in tandem with another use
nearby, and one specifically for our project. We were pleased with the turnout. We had
23 people attend the two meetings interested in our project. I think, in all honesty, there
were three things mentioned that I think represent concerns of the people that are here
tonight and I'd like to mention those. If we miss some, I'm sure they will correct me.
Then, mention briefly how I think we mitigated those concerns. Firstly, they were
concerned with traffic -- increasing traffic as a result of the development. Secondly,
they were concerned with obstruction of their views. We have seen a lot of four-plexes
tonight, two story four-plexes and I don't know about you, but you know, if you're used
to looking out of your kitchen window and seeing something other than -- or second
bedroom window and seeing something other than another building, it's kind of nice to
keep it that way. I can appreciate those concerns. Thirdly, impact on property values.
First of all, as a result of those neighborhood meetings, we committed, as a
development team, to restricting the structures to one-story structures. We think that
that is important in respecting the neighbors. Secondly, with respect to traffic, we felt
that the senior housing component, which frankly came to us as a result of demand
assessed in the marketplace by independent consultants that Doug Clegg was privy to.
Interestingly enough, we found that seniors typically do not travel during peak hours and
so we felt that that did respect the concerns for traffic. A lot of these seniors, of course,
are not going to be as ambulatory as others, but the complex contemplates those
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 70 of 100
seniors who want the dignity of independent living, want their own garage to drive into,
but yet, perhaps, aren't comfortable cooking for themselves as well as they used to or
their spouse, they can have access to meals and other amenities through the assisted
living center and that's the, quote, R-15 need, even though we are really an R-9,
because we are looking at attached units similar to Altura, if you have seen Altura on
the eastern side of Boise. This is a concept from the Park Center that we are really
bringing to Meridian. And also one that Doug Clegg will talk about briefly as it relates to
what he did at Eagle and has been so highly received in Eagle. We think we addressed
some of the traffic considerations with the nature of the usage in the back and,
secondly, light office, the way it's configured, we have a lot of interest by dentists,
orthodontists, and Scott will talk more about that. Chiropractors, insurance agents,
accounting professionals, so we will have access to -- the entire Meridian Greens and
other areas will have access to that, without having to get onto Overland without having
to cross Meridian Road. We think that the usage of it really compliments the concern
for traffic. Then, finally, I think what Doug will show you will hopefully speak for itself.
We focused on a high quality living environment. Yes, there is some structures in here,
but when you see the magnitude of the landscaping, when you see the quality of the
elevations, we put a lot of time and a lot of money and certainly Doug has in making this
a project that the City of Meridian can be proud of. That's certainly for you to decide,
but it won't be without lack of effort. Doug?
Clegg: Mr. Chairman and Commissioners, my name is Doug Clegg and I reside in
Eagle, Idaho, and I appreciate the late hour and your willingness to stay here and
especially those that have showed up tonight. I, like Rob, am a concerned homeowner
and we have taken great length to insure that the quality of this project is in alliance with
our neighbors. I thought it would be useful tonight for me to give a little bit of
background on our company, so that at least the folks that are here and you knew that
we weren't just afly-by-night start-up group. We have been providing assisted living
service in the state of Idaho since 1995 and I believe in that period of time we have
probably taken care of over 700 seniors that have been through our direct supervision.
We currently have four locations. We have owned and developed five. We have about
70 employees right now that work for us and our licenses our with the Department of
Health and Welfare and the Bureau of Licensing far what they call elder care and under
that licensing status we not only take care of seniors, but we take care of individuals
that also have Alzheimer's, dementia, and what they call sundowner's syndrome. We
have had some experience in taking care of these individuals. I don't think there is a
person in this room that hasn't been affected in some way by a family member that
needs additional care, whether it's a parent or an aunt, we have all lived through that,
either personally or vicariously, and it's an unbelievably growing need and, frankly, your
community needs this project. You need this component of care in your -- in the City of
Meridian. In fact, this campus that we are proposing tonight is unlike anything that's in
the state of Idaho right now, which has all the elements of care available to us, which
includes the Alzheimer's, assisted living, and independent living. We think it's -- we are
confident that it's going to be highly successful and hope that -- I'm going to show you a
few slides here in just a minute to give you an idea of some of the campuses that we
have developed and I'm hoping that it will speak highly of the quality that we are
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 71 of 100
proposing for this project. Why don't we do that? Would you guys -- let's just roll
through these real quick. I think I've got 41 exposures. These are projects that we have
around the state. We thought you might be interested in looking at this. I don't know
how many seconds you want to take, but can we just roll through this? This is Soda
Springs, Idaho. This is the first project that we developed in 1995. You can just keep
going right through here. I have got two or three photos of this and this is an aerial
photo of this particular project. This is American Falls and one of the things I want you
to notice here is that all these projects are nestled in high-end residential areas. In fact,
that first project that we were just looking at in Soda Springs is in the highest residential
area for that city. Same with American Falls. And anybody that's driven by American
Falls by the water tower and looks off to the lake or the reservoir, that's the project that
you see on the freeway right there and the residential houses that surround that are the
highest real estate value in the entire city. It's a great compliment. This is the front
elevation of that particular project. You can keep rolling through that. We have
purchased all the adjoining property around that project. This is an interior look of a
project that we did in St. Anthony that we just developed this last year. Why don't you
just go ahead and keep rolling through there. That's the front elevation. There is a
piano. Kitchen. Administrator's office. That's American Falls again. I don't know how it
slipped in there. But this is another shot of the front of St. Anthony. This is a part of our
entry or vestibule. Dining facilities. It's a little bit dark, but you can see how those are
organized. This is our project in Eagle. I'd like to pause just a minute on this one. And
I hope everybody that's here, especially those that are here going to express some
concerns, will take the time, if not tomorrow, this week, and go and visit this project in
Eagle. We have had a tremendous response with this project and this is probably the
project that's most similar to what we are proposing in Meridian tonight. This is the
assisted living part of the project. Why don't you go ahead and give me a couple more
slides. This is the front elevation. This is the comer. This is located at 653 North Eagle
Road. This is another shot of the assisted living facility. Another shot for you there.
Another side angle. This is a gated community in conjunction with the assisted living
facility. We had a bunch of folks here that, actually, were going to tell you how great the
project was, but they don't like to drive after dark, so they all went home. They are not
here tonight to share their feelings with this, but there is a gated part of this community
in the back and why you don't roll through some of these slides here, so you can kind of
get a feel for this. We got ponds and water features. You can see here off to the right
this property adjoins Clear Creek development, which was developed by Doug Jayo.
Average property values in that development are between 350 and 650,000 dollars,
which means that this type of a project is very compatible with high end residential
homes and he has had no problem. You can see all the homes under construction. I
took those this afternoon at 1:00. All those homes are currently under construction and
I think most of those homes are between four and 5,000 square feet. It's a beautiful
setting. This is the inside of the facility. The main entrance there. Fireplace setting.
That's a library off to the right. Another sitting area in the facility. That's another shot of
the library there. Dining. It's a little bit dark. A little bit of an overview there for you.
Front area. That's the other gate to the entrance to the back part of the project.
Another shot of a different facility for the interior. Go ahead and roll through that. Okay.
I think these are pretty big slides, but we probably don't need to look at those. I did
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 72 of 100
want to visit a little bit about the reason why we organized our project the way we have,
so that you might understand the concept that's here. This is a gated community and all
the roads that are within this are private drives. In the very center of the project there,
that octagon-looking building, is an 1,800 square foot rec center that's going to be used
for amulti-purpose center for all the individuals that live in the independent living units.
All the real estate on this project is owned under one company and managed under
Spring Creek Management and anybody that lives here, including the independent living
units, have all their meals, laundry, housekeeping, activities, and transportation
provided for them, if they choose to have that. In addition to that, all the utilities are paid
for and it pretty much -- everything is covered when you move into one of those
independent living units, with the exception of their phone and they handle that
themselves. All the units have 24 hour wait care. The project will probably have the
equivalent of about 22 full-time employees and that's kind of an overview of what we
plan on doing here. We are pretty excited about it and we feel confident about the
needs here. We have done a market study and there is an overvuhelming need for this
type of a project in this location. With that, I'm going to tum some time over to Scott to
wrap things up for us.
Stewart: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, we appreciate this time to share
this with you tonight. My name is Scott Stewart. I reside at 1643 East. Highgate Court
in Eagle. I'd just like to take a -- I will be very brief and I think a lot of -- a lot of what we
wanted to say has been said, but I want to talk just briefly about the L-O portion and
why we sized that to the size it is and why we are requesting that size. And, basically, it
boils down to a scale that you need to have enough mass, if you will, to put enough
building there where people will come to it. If you only had one or two buildings, it's
hard to attract people. You need to have enough services that provide enough services
to a community that people will come there and it becomes a matter of convenience.
We felt like the light office, the professional park up front, was important for the buffer
for the residential. As we spent more time studying that and as we, you know, thought
about the traffic and the noise on Highway 69, we felt that was an extremely important
part of the project. We have also talked to -- as was mentioned, several possible
professionals are interested in this and are anxious to locate here and one is a dentist.
We have talked to an orthodontist, a couple of different CPA firms. They recognize the
growth in this part of the city and the need in this area for these services and they are
looking for this and like this area for their professional businesses. We feel like this will
be a true asset to the community, that it is something that is -- as I watched Doug and
studied his Eagle development and the success he's had there, I know several people
that live there and they have been extremely pleased with the services, the quality, the
way it's maintained. I strongly feel that this will be a tremendous asset to the City of
Meridian and urge your approval of this good project. We will answer any questions
that you may have.
Borup: Questions from the Commission?
Stewart: Thank you very much.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 73 of 700
Zaremba: Just one short one, if I may. I got -- you have other operations that have
independent living and assisted living. Do any of your other operations have
Alzheimer's care?
Stewart: I would need to have Doug Clegg answer that question. He is, actually, the
assisted living -- I'm, actually, one of the owners of the property.
Clegg: The state of Idaho does have a classification for Alzheimer's care, but under
Section 700, anybody that has an elderly care license, as long as they are doing the
same training that's required by an Alzheimer's classification, can do care for
Alzheimer's. We do not have any units that are designated as Alzheimer's
classification, but we have those that we take care of, probably about 20 to 25 percent
of them are at some stage of Alzheimer's. We have had a lot of experience in taking
care of folks with that disability.
Borup: So, the difference here is you have a separate building strictly for that; is that
what you're saying?
Clegg: Yes. Yes. We have a separate building. A lot of times when folks get either
sundowner's or dementia or Alzheimer's, which are all different diseases, but when they
get that disability and they advance in that disability, when they get outside the social
norm of folks that stay in a normal assisted living environment, we work with individuals
that specialize in that kind of care, so that they are in a setting that's familiar to
everybody else that's with them. It doesn't mean that we can't take care of them it just
means that they are not compatible with the rest of the residents that are staying in that
facility. That's why we feel the need to do this.
Borup: Okay. Thank you. Any other questions from any of the Commissioners? Okay.
We'd like to go into the public testimony and, of course, we do want to have everyone
have the opportunity or at least to be heard. A couple things to do that. One, of course,
to have that opportunity we may need to -- we are looking at perhaps time limitations as
per our policies, but also what we have done in the past, if there is anyone that is
speaking on behalf of a homeowner's association or a major group of people, we extend
a little extra time there. Is that the case tonight? Okay. Go ahead and come on up.
Durray: Good morning. My name is Michael Durray from Meridian Greens. I live at
752 East Jamaica Court and I am the president. I don't know how I became president.
I'm president of the board of directors for Meridian Greens and f have. a couple of things
that I'd like to throw out --
Borup: And let me establish first, you're speaking on behalf of Meridian Greens
Homeowner's Association?
Durray: Yes.
Borup: And how many people here in this audience, would you raise your hands.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 74 of 100
Durray: Some of them left, because it's late.
Borup: Okay. Those four people on the back row.
Durray: Okay.
Borup: Okay. He is not speaking on your behalf, then?
Newton-Huckabay: Are you speaking on behalf of any of the people that are here?
Durray: Not necessarily. Just the people that sent a-mails that have called me. The
board. Probably about 30 people.
Borup: But they are not here.
Durray: No. They have got -- that's why I'm here, because they couldn't make it.
Borup: Okay.
Durray: Can I give this to the overhead folks?
Borup: Yes.
Durray: I think I can do it in three minutes. There are two issues that we want to bring
to your attention and that we object to. One is the zoning. We looked at the plans and
they are beautiful. A lot better than the Rock Creek or whatever that stuff that you guys
were looking at. This is really nice. In the case of the zoning, the staff really really
supported this particular project, meaning your staff, because they had a precedence in
that particular area above the site was already zoned -- I want to say R-15, and,
therefore, we can now justify this new site as R-15 and, then, what's going to happen is
R-15 is going to go right down or south on Meridian Road.
Borup: Let me clarify that right now. That's zoned commercial, isn't it, or what's the
zoning to the north?
Kirkpatrick: The property directly to the north -- it's still in the county --
Borup: Well, Imean -- but the other project that was approved earlier I think is what
he's referring to.
Durray: Right here. The justification was that since this was R-15, then, we can do this
R-15 and, then, we can do this R-15.
Kirkpatrick: That was -- you're talking about Southern Springs?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 75 of 100
Durray: Yes.
Kirkpatrick: That was C-G.
Borup: C-G. That's commercial zone.
Durray: Okay. What I'm saying is that the justification for changing this from R-4 to R-
15 was that this was zoned differently and, therefore, we can continue to expand the
use. That's --and it's late, guys, so --
Borup: No. I understand. I just wanted -- yes, that was, but it's a down zoning of that
use. It's not continuing the same use.
Durray: Okay. I stand corrected. I'm concerned is that what will happen is that this
here for future development will become R-15, because this has been approved R-15. I
understand the project managers are saying, well, the reason why this is R-15 is
because it has separate parking and so forth. It's really only X number of units per mile
of square acreage, but that's our concern, in that the expansion of R-15 down this road.
And he brings up pictures of other subdivisions that are in the 600,000, 700 -- well, we
live right here. This is Meridian Greens. Although ours is not 600,000 dollars, the
second concern that we have is traffic and looking at the access into here is
Calderwood and -- why am I nervous. I shouldn't be nervous -- coming down here and
that's how you access it here. This road backs up in the morning from 7:00 until 9:00 all
the way back here to Victory. When I try to get out here, we can't get out. People are
trying to make alert-hand turn in the morning and they can't get in. Now we are going
to add all this traffic, all of this structure here, and L-O is okay, we don't have any
problems with L-O, but the second concern is the traffic. People -- instead of coming
this way and having to go this way to school, are coming right this way to 3rd, taking a
shortcut. Shortcut through our housing and I'm trying to sell a house and I also sell real
estate besides speaking to P&Z Commissioners at night. I'm having problems selling
this particular house, because people are saying it's too noisy. Well, why is it so noisy?
Not so much traffic here, but when they expanded Overland from two lanes to four, lots
of traffic here. Yes, we don't mind this construction, but let's have some sort of egress
and ingress other than a shortcut through Meridian Greens. Is it three minutes yet?
Thank you very much.
Borup: There may be some -- sir? Any questions?
Durray: I'm not nervous. Really, I'm not.
Borup: I just wanted to clarify on the traffic issue you're concerned about this project
generating traffic through your neighborhood?
Durray: Yes.
Borup: From the assisted living people or --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 76 of 100
Durray: No. From the office. If you look at the plan, the only way to get into the light
office is through Calderwood.
Borup: Right.
Durray: Yes, please. That's my technical assistant back there. It's upside down. Do
you see where the title is? That should be north.
Borup: Yes. We have got plats in ourfiles I think showing that access, so --
Durray: Now, I'm going to need -- thank you. Okay. Here is Calderwood right here and
people will go this way -- right now as we speak they go here to continue and avoid this
light here and so going into this project, people will come in this way -- do they want to
come in this way? No. They will come through here to go into this area or the same
thing, they can't make a left at Calderwood, because traffic is backed up, so they will go
here at the light and come down 3'~ Way into the light office.
Borup: People going to work in the morning?
Durray: Yes.
Borup: To the office space --
Durray: To the office, plus the staff helping the assisted living. This is going to be very
congested, because the business -- and the project people said, well, we need this
project. I don't argue with that. What we need is better traffic control, so that it doesn't
use -- it does not use our property, our road, to go in here. Give us a plan for this. The
trees and all of this other stuff is good stuff, but it's the traffic that's going to kill us. You
say, well, how is it going to kill you? It's lowering our property value. I'm a real estate
agent. People selling here are having to lower their selling price by 10,000 dollars.
That's real. That's real money. They will all wind up in the assisted living, because they
will go crazy when they get a chance to sell their sell house.
Rohm: A Catch 22.
Durray: That's correct.
Zaremba: I would ask --this is a real subject that you bring up and it, actually, has been
brought up before when we were considering these triangular pieces of property a little
bit north of Calderwood.
Durray: And you guys have a tough job. I didn't realize you worked five hours at night,
from 7:00 until 2:00.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 77 of 100
Zaremba: Well, what I would wonder -- I think it has been suggested that you try and
make contact with ACHD about what they call traffic calming things, which may mean,
you know, maybe somehow getting an island or something -- or even traffic bumps or
something that would make it less attractive to come racing through your neighborhood.
Durray: And that's exactly what happens, is they race through. You're absolutely right.
Zaremba: But I mean have you gone to ACHD and discussed traffic calming measures
with them?
Durray: One project at a time, sir. That -- because if you approve this project without
any consideration to egress and ingress by way of Calderwood, then, we will have to do
something about speed bumps -- and speed bumps -- nobody likes speed bumps. Now
it's impacting us because we have to go over the speed bumps, whereas right now we
don't. It's a nice community. It's one of the jewels, if you will. It's going to be not a
jewel.
Borup: Okay. Thank you.
Durray: Thank you so much.
Clark: I'm Gordon Clark. I live at 1919 Southeast 3ro Way, which is on 3'd --
Borup: What was your name again, sir?
Clark: Gordon Clark.
Borup: Gordon Clark.
Clark: Yes. I'd like to point out a couple things. First of all, the property due north is
actually a rural transitional that is below the commercial there, so that has not made the
transition to have a contiguous zoning, as Ms. Kirkpatrick implied.
Borup: No. She clarified that.
Clark: She never said that it was rural transitional due north.
Borup: Yes. She said this property was still in the county is how she put it.
Clark: Oh. Okay.
Borup: And this is a project here that was C-G.
Clark: Right. The creek that goes along there, the residents that moved into Meridian
Greens there, they actually had to put their buildings 75 feet back from the creek and
I'm trying to understand why that -- it's also an irrigation ditch. Why that does not apply
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 78 of 10D
to the Alzheimer's facility that's going to be going in there. That's not a 75-foot leeway.
Another one is that I am opposed to the light office down sizing, making it denser. I
don't see any requirement for that. There is so many office buildings going in along
Overland and everywhere else, I don't see the use -- I don't have a problem with light
office going in there, I just don't know why they need to have a change in the already
regulated L-O zoning of having it more dense than that zoning is.
Borup: I'm not -- I didn't follow that statement.
Clark: In their proposal, the light office is one of the waivers they are asking for is that
they can -- a reduction in lot size below the standard 7,000 square foot. They don't
need to do that. They can go ahead and just do light offices like everybody else does
light offices.
Borup: Well, it would make the buildings smaller by having a smaller lot.
Clark: Okay. Why don't we -- why don't we stick with the -- you get a change to the
zoning and, then, we have to do a special use permit on top of that. I don't understand
that. The other thing that hasn't been brought up, which I'm kind of curious, is the
aging. They keep referring to the elderly or older people. The fact is there is a lot of
people who suffer from dementia that are young people and also assisted living centers
can be meant for young people, too. There is no clarification here saying that it has to
be elderly people and even though we love our grandmothers and our great aunts, that
doesn't mean that, you know, younger people can be in these communities and I'm not
sure that really fits with what they are saying. The other thing. that I would like to bring
up is land use a little bit. There has been a problem that I see and that is the first thing
that alerted me to this is for years -- 11 years, according to the lady that I have been
sitting next to, is that that area of land has actually been a private bird sanctuary and it's
been posted as that the whole time. I have lived there for a couple of years and I have
noticed that as well. All of a sudden after this property sells the signs are ripped down
and it's no more a bird sanctuary and we are kind of concerned citizens wondering why
all of a sudden is the bird sanctuary gone. Then, the next thing we know it's changing to
R-8 and, then, well, it's actually eight or nine, so it needs to be fit into the R-15 category
and it just brings up a lot of red flags. I asked Ms. Kirkpatrick about that and she said
she's going to look into it and the last time I talked to her hadn't found anything.
Borup: Look into what?
Clark: Look into that being a bird sanctuary and if there is, you know, any regulations
on that or --
Borup: Well, just because -- okay. From what you have stated it sounds like whoever
lived there put a sign up.
Clark: Yes. There were multiple signs saying bird sanctuary.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 79 of 100
Borup: Right. Well -- I mean anybody can put a sign on their property and it can say
anything they want.
Clark: But I'm saying as a concerned citizen and knowing that there is a sanctuary for
birds all this time and you love your community and the birds are within our community
and now all of a sudden it's not a bird sanctuary anymore, so I'm just saying that I'm
concerned.
Borup: But I'm not sure that stating something is something makes it so.
Clark: Well, it's been protected --
Borup: By who?
Clark: By the owner.
Borup: Okay. Exactly. It's not a government -- it's not a --
Clark: I'm not saying that, I'm --
Borup: -- or even a private corporation or anything, so --
Clark: One of the things that I did bring up with Ms. Kirkpatrick was the traffic situation
here and she suggested that maybe a traffic light could go in there. I did take the time
and call the ACHD and found out that this is actually a state highway, so they have no
jurisdiction over that. However, they had done a traffic count at this intersection and
along the road there. They approximated that 23,000 cars pass this way daily on
Meridian Road and they said that the probability of a traffic light going in to Calderwood
would probably not happen, because there is not that many cars going into Calderwood
at this time. Then, I called the state and they said no way, there is never going to be a
traffic light going in there. In fact, that the highway is designed to hold 37,000 cars,
which already is backing so much I don't quite understand that. There really is going to
be a problem and I would suggest that most of the traffic is going to be coming from
downtown Boise or other areas north of this facility and trying to make -- get into this
facility or the light offices and they will need to make a left turn going into Calderwood
and you just can't do it and so I also agree with what has been said, they will end up
going down Southeast 3`~ Way, which is right in front of my house, and I have kids that
walk down there and ride their bikes and everything else and it will be going down that
way to get access to this property. Those are kind of my concerns. I see what's being
presented, it looks nice and everything, I just would -- we just aren't planning -- you guys
are zoning and planning -- we are not planning for traffic considerations here and, I don't
know, maybe you guys can put all your weight together and get a traffic light put in
there. If that happens, I wouldn't have a problem with this at all in many regards. I think
that, you know, it would make a lot more sense, but right now we do have an issue
there and I think it's a safety issue.
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 80 of 100
Rohm: It sounds like you'd like to have a signal there whether this project went or not.
Clark: I -- yes and there is another reason for it, too. The school district just got
rearranged and so now half of Meridian Greens is, actually -- the elementary school is
connecting with Bear Creek, which is to the far left there and so now for my kids that are
going to be next year going to Meridian -- to Mary McPhearson Elementary School, they
are going to have new students who are in that Bear Creek and they are not going to be
able to play with their friends, because they can't get across the highway, so if they had
a street light there, they could get across the highway, so -- anyway, thank you.
Borup: Thank you
Britton: Mr. Chairman and Members of the Committee, my name is Lester Britton, I live
at 2019 Southeast 3`~ Way. I represent myself, my wife Rebecca, as well as the
following adjacent property owners: Richard and Glenda Openshaw. Richard is here
tonight. Douglas and Marie Olson, who are both here tonight. Earl and Betty Ramsey.
Earl is here tonight. Blaine and Mary Jane Bennett, who are both here tonight. We
wish to formally oppose this Rezone of the subject property from current R-4 to the
proposed R-15. This Rezone directly opposes current use plans and will drastically
impact our property both monetarily and esthetically. I could read this document, but it's
all our concerns. I think we have all sent them into the city, you now have them, so
rather than elaborate -- one thing everybody that's talked here has not got the property
that we have got. Right at the end of this project. The parking lot -- all the cars are
going to be shinning their lights in our bedroom at night. We are going to have
emergency vehicles, because it is an Alzheimer's unit, you know, and it's drastically
going to change our way of life there and it is going to take our property values down.
Thank you.
Borup: Thank you, sir. Do we have anyone else that would like to come forward?
Bengson: Mr. Chairman, Members of the Commission, my name is Brad Bengson. My
address is 5710 South Schooner Way in Boise. I happen to have the privilege of
owning the little RUT of property that's directly north of this project and I, quite frankly,
am quite in favor of the project for many reasons. I didn't know what to do with my
property, because I bought it to put in an equipment rental business and I changed my
mind and so I have been wondering which way to go and I think this is -- I think this is a
nice alternative for what possibly could happen to that location. As a side light, I did live
next to an assisted living facility before I recently moved, I lived there for several years.
They were probably the finest neighbors I have ever had. They don't drive their cars
real fast they don't holler at their kids, their dogs and cats don't get in your yard. I can't
recall seeing a single emergency vehicle's lights flashing in my windows at night. The
people are just grateful to have a nice place to live and if you do want to talk to them
they appreciate it. Those are my comments and if you have any questions I would be
happy to answer them.
Borup: Okay.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 81 of 100
Bengson: Thank you.
Borup: Thank you, sir.
Swanson: My name is Greg Swanson. I live at 1705 Southeast 3rd Way. I live at the
entrance on the corner of Antigua and Southeast 3rd Way, where I can actually see
Overland Road and in the three years that I have lived there we have noticed an
increase in traffic and primarily the high school opening and also, then, the widening of
Overland Road. A big concern is -- the major issue is traffic. I have spoke to a number
of neighbors about this proposal. Everybody seems to agree that a buffer strip along
Meridian Road is appropriate, that people aren't going to want to live in that buffer zone
and that that's a good use of the property. It's the back portion that we have to
consider. Another thing that hasn't been addressed is if you look at the plat map of the
proposal, what is happening in what we would refer to as phase two, all the comments
that have been addressed tonight increase exponentially as we begin to find out what
phase two is. There was some allusion to a complete retirement community or
something else in that second section south of this proposed property. The stub road
goes there and, again, we are not accessing off of Meridian Road, we are accessing off
of this intermediate road about a third of the way in as basically the buffer between the
light office and the retirement community. Now, we, again, have -- depending on the
use that that is put to, doubling or tripling, depending on how that project is zoned and
utilized. Again, funneling right through Meridian Greens in terms of that Calderwood
access. I'm home many times during the middle of the day. The high school students
are using Calderwood as a cutoff. I have seen individuals that you could tell are
professional or just normal business people starting to utilize Southeast 3rd Way again
in terms of accessing back out through Calderwood. Now we have a subdivision that if
you look at those roads, they were designed to handle the Meridian Greens Subdivision
traffic flow. There were curves in the road and they are not designed as straight though
roads, probably to slow traffic down and now we are actually turning Southeast 3rd Way
into a zone and our concern is, again, the traffic flow and how this back portion -- the
buffer strip I think everybody agrees at some point that has to be utilized in a
commercial type of fashion or light office, but the back portion -- a number of neighbors
that I have discussed this with and myself, we would urge that that -- a portion of that
back remain as R-4. There is no reason that that cannot be continued to develop. We
have the observation point there on Victory, the south end out of Meridian Greens that
was developed, the phase four Meridian Greens just recently went in, those are high
end homes, they were all good uses of that land and we'd urge that to be considered.
Thank you.
Borup: Sir, it's this area here that you are talking about you're concerned about the
development of?
Swanson: The back end in terms of --
Borup: Right here.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 82 of 100
Swanson: Yes.
Borup: Where the Alzheimer's unit is going.
Swanson: Yes. Then, the problem is is that nobody has addressed from the portion
back to Phase 2 right here. What's happening out here?
Borup: That's not part of this project.
Swanson: We understand that, but as you look at the zoning change to R-15, then, are
we going to end up with a huge density population in there. If this section is zoned,
then, it's the progression that we need to also be concerned about, because of the
traffic flow and the use here, that's what I'm talking about on this doubling.
Newton-Huckabay: They wouldn't have access only to Calderwood is your thought?
Swanson: Yes. Normally when you have a light office fronting on a major thoroughfare,
you have the access -- ingress and egress on that major thoroughfare. Here it's being
done through this lateral road, for lack of a better term, and based on that lateral road
now you're even increasing the potential for the traffic flow to go right through a
subdivision that was not designed or people purchasing homes that were not
purchasing those --
Borup: And I understand, but we can't really address that. I'm still confused on your
concern. You say the back property. You're concerned about the Alzheimer's unit?
Swanson: From the -- yes. From the light office back, that whole portion should remain
R-4. We have had Observation Point --
Borup: Right. That's what I'm talking about. You're saying you want all this to be R-4?
Swanson: That would be -- I don't think anybody would oppose that and they would
actually embrace that.
Borup: Do you think there would be less traffic with an R-4, as opposed to this project?
Swanson: Yes. The density is going to be minimal.
Borup: Okay.
Swanson: Thank you.
Borup: Do we have anyone else?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 83 of 100
Phillips: Yes. I'm Gary Phillips. I live at 332 East Calderwood Drive. I won't go into --
most of my concerns were -- have already been spoken to tonight, except for the one
and the gentleman just here alluded to it a little bit. I was wondering why there is no
access to this light office off of Meridian Road? What's the reason for that? I don't
know if you guys have an answer to that or maybe the developers do, but --
Borup: I think we will let them maybe address that, but, generally, it's because it's such
a busy road and they don't want cars turning in and off of that.
Phillips: Okay. Then, that just puts out -- it seems to me that they would put that much
more traffic onto Calderwood. If they at least had some access into this light office off of
Meridian Road, that would alleviate some of the traffic that would be on -- or I mean on
Calderwood. Thank you.
Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, you have included your packets a
letter from ITD stating strict restriction of access to Meridian Road in that location. I
believe you can only have it on -- I can't find the letter. On the half mile, but we do have
a letter from ITD restricting access just to Calderwood Road. There is no flexibility
there.
Borup: And I guess that's the real answer to that question. Idaho Transportation
Department is not allowing it.
Clark: I notice that Calderwood is not as wide as all the other streets, even through
Meridian Greens. Is there any development plans for widening Calderwood? It's
actually quite narrow as it is right now and that's another concern I have.
Borup: Okay. We will get an answer to that.
Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, Calderwood Road is actually
classified as a major collector.
Borup: What you're saying is it's not paved as such, so does that major collector have a
50 or 60-foot right of way?
Kirkpatrick: We are not certain. We are looking it up.
Borup: Okay but it's at least 50. The right of way. Okay. Maybe -- perhaps the
applicants can maybe address what ACHD has asked them to do on that. Does that
conclude --okay. Quickly.
Openshaw: My name is Rick Openshaw. I'm at 2049 Southeast 3rd Way. I wish I could
have gotten a letter or had my in-laws here. They lived in Modesto, California, they
lived right next door, a fence between them and an Alzheimer's place. When they went
to sell the property they were told by the realtor selling the property that -- so they would
know ahead of time it definitely would affect the amount of money they got. How much I
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 84 of 100
don't know, but they said it was a real downsizer. It did bring down the property value
quite a bit. Also when I bought the house I bought it new --
Borup: So, did you say they -- that was built after they bought the -- after they -- their
house was built that that project went in?
Openshaw: They were -- no. When they bought the property it was -- both places were
existing.
Borup: Okay and so they sold it for less than they bought it for?
Openshaw: No. They made money on it, but they would have made more money had
that not been next door to them. In other words, that affected the value of the property -
Borup: Well, I understand, but you said it was already existing.
Openshaw: Well, when they bought it.
Borup: But they would have made more money if it were on a lake.
Openshaw: Well, I don't know.
Borup: Okay.
Openshaw: What I'm saying is both the buildings were there. They bought the house.
Then, the other thing is Chuck Fuller, who was the builder of the house of which I'm in,
when I bought that it was a concern of me to what was back there or going to be back
there. He said they had no idea. He said he had talked to the city, the mayor, which is -
- Chuck Fuller, if any of you know him, and he said whenever anything was to go back
there, he said they wouldn't -- the city told him that they would not let anything go back
there, that the people that were backed up against it, like we are, agreed on what was to
go back there and had an input and a real concern about it. He said they told him that
we would be notified and that we would -- if we were for or against it, we would have a
lot of weight in that and it doesn't sound like maybe we will, I don't know, but --
Borup: But you were notified.
Openshaw: Anyway--
Borup: Yes. I think that's really what you meant and that's definitely the case. That's
why we hold these hearings. Okay. Mr. Perez, did you have some conclusions?
Perez: Sure.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 85 of 100
Zaremba: While he's on the way up here, I would comment in ACHD's notes, Page 2,
Paragraph 8, the existing right of way of Calderwood Drive currently has a total of 126
feet of right of way, 60 feet from center line.
Borup: Okay so, it's 120-foot right of way.
Zaremba: It's going to be a pretty sizeable street.
Borup: Or it could be.
Perez: Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and I appreciate the comments. Regarding
ACHD and the collector street, it has been paved to collector standards, so they do
anticipate a lot heavier traffic. The reason there is not a stop light there today is
because in their mind the traffic just does not warrant it, so the comments tonight
relative to the increase in traffic -- you know, I can appreciate it, but, by the same token,
it's the very lack of traffic that is the reason it's not being managed. The other comment
would be just consistent with the prior comments regarding traffic relative to the nature
of our residents. They do not travel during peak hours. A lot of them simply are not
going to travel, because they are not going to drive. They will be driven via a van or a
bus as an accommodation by Spring Creek. Impact on property values. I think Doug's
gone to an extraordinary length to landscape and create a -- as you can see -- I think it's
been acknowledged by the people that have commented tonight that the elevations, the
building materials are a quality such that to say that an Alzheimer's facility somewhere
else automatically translates to a problem today, I would question whether or not it has
the same amount of effort in landscaping and Doug -- I think the landscaping comment
was we are at 46 percent landscaping regarding the requirement of 17 percent. Light
office density -- and I believe that's the last -- or two things. One, the stub road. The
reason the stub road is there is it requires connectivity. We do not own any other land
in this area. The only land that Calderwood Community, LLC, owns related, unrelated,
directly or indirectly, is that parcel of property for those -- actually, two parcels of
property. We have no plans, because we have no land for further development. The
stub road is there strictly for connectivity. Regarding light office density, the demand on
the marketplace is for smaller office, but we have created small lots strictly for flexibility.
We can vacate lot lines and the likelihood is that the average office complex here will be
5,000, 7,000 feet, but we do want to have the flexibility to serve the small office user. I
believe that addresses most of the concerns.
Borup: No, you need to address the Commission. Yes. Well, you're welcome to ask
him anything after the meeting is over. I would assume you could stay a few minutes, if
that's what she'd like. Okay.
Britton: Becky Britton. I live at 2019 Southeast 3'~ Way. I'm Lester's wife. What
doesn't show up here is our homes. Here. That is the parking lot and the dumpsters
and the delivery entrance all right at our back fence. The parking lot, the lights,
everything all night long. It will be coming right facing our back house. The back of our
house. If the City of Meridian has best interest in mind of the people that live there,
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 88 of 100
then, we ask that you guys really take a hard look at this, because it's taking our
property value right down the tube and we paid a lot of money for it, just like everybody
else. The wild bird sanctuary. We were even told that's why it wasn't maintained, the
property. That's why we bought there. That's what the realtors told us. They said --
you know, at one point they told us the city owned that little piece between the creek
and our fence and that there would never be anything there. Stupidity, whatever you
want to call it, that's where we live. That's our home. We are real people and we just
would ask that you guys would take a look at that.
Borup: Thank you. We are done with the public testimony. Mr. Perez, maybe -- or
maybe Mr. Clegg could answer that question on --there was one more raised by --
Clegg: I would be happy to.
Borup: And that was on trash collection and visits -- evening visits and that kind of
thing.
Clegg: Yes. Interestingly enough, the reason we put the Alzheimer's unit in the back of
the project is because it is the lowest traffic area of all the other components of the
project and the only reason we have this parking lot designed the way it is is because
the fire marshal wants to be able to turn around and we really do not have the need for
the parking or the commercial traffic in that area. In fact, it won't even accommodate it.
All of the commercial traffic that brings any supplies to that community, will be bringing it
to the main facility and we will, actually, have a golf cart that will be kept there to bring
meals to the independent living units, that will bring most of the supplies to the
Alzheimer's unit. In connection with that, there was some concern about emergency
vehicles. On a project like this, we probably will see about -- I'm going to say about two
or three a year and most of those happen during wake hours and most of them are non-
lighted responses. There are not very many sirens, if any at all. In fact, Idon't -- I'd say
in the history of us doing this in 10 years we maybe have had three or four where the
EMTs felt the need to tum their sirens on to get to our facilities. It's usually somebody
falls and they need assistance to get in and get some x-rays and so they come over and
pick them up. That -- maybe that can help.
Borup: And maybe one other -- there have been discussions with -- on trash collection
hours.
Clegg: You mean as far as the city or BFI or --
Borup: Yes. Sanitary Services.
Clegg: We have not and we are -- we would be thrilled to either do away with that trash
bin there or put it anywhere you want. We, actually, had two on the site and probably
don't even need it. We would be happy to move that. It just seemed like a convenient
location to have it there, but we will do whatever you want.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 87 of 100
Zaremba: Let me ask a question that might help some of the property owners that are
right behind you. This tum around area here, if this island were, to slip a little bit to the
northeast and this parking actually go over on this side, so that anybody parking there,
their lights are actually facing away from -- assuming anybody did come at night and I'm
sure the facility is probably closed to visitors at night, but --
Clegg: Yes. Actually, the gates close at 8:00.
Zaremba: If you could -- you would still have the same turnaround area, but if you could
reconfigure it so that the parking faced exactly the opposite direction.
Clegg: Absolutely.
Zaremba: Would that be a possibility?
Clegg: You bet you. We would be happy to do that. One of the restrictions we have is
that right now the Army Corps of Engineers won't let us get anything within 18 feet from
the top of the slope. Now, I don't know if they are meaning that that's a structure or if
we paved it and put parking there, if they can drive on it -- we are happy to explore that
option and make that change if they will let us do that.
Newton-Huckabay: What type of -- do you have abarrier -- some type of barrier
between you and the properties behind you?
Clegg: Yes. A six-foot fence there and we are happy to put anything they want, just so
you guys know. We will -- if you want us to match the current fences you have there or
if you want us to -- I know some of the property owners don't have any fence there right
now, some of them have some beautiful redwood fences. I think another one has a
vinyl fence. We will put up whatever they want to provide that privacy there. Or we
won't put up any fence at all. We will need a fence in the back to provide security for
the residents that stay with us there. There will need to be a fence there. That's a state
regulation, so we will have to have that.
Borup: Commissioner Zaremba, on your comments, I just wonder about -- well, maybe
you can answer this: How often are wheelchairs in use? Putting it across the parking
lot would not have easy access to a sidewalk into the building, but -- I was thinking of
wheelchair access.
Clegg: Yes.
Zaremba: I'm not sure it would be any farther from the entrance than the
Clegg: Yes. We actually have drive-thru covered drop-offs and that's usually when --
when primary givers bring their loved ones to stay with us, they'll stop, help mom or dad
get out and, then, they will go and park afterwards. You are right, we would need to
make some probably -- have at least one or two ADA parking stalls just for life and
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 88 of 100
safety reasons. Okay. I got a note here, just to reaffirm everybody, that the gates do
close at 8:00, so this is a private community, meaning that -- and we do that for security
reasons. The folks that live in these independent living units have the latitude to come
and go as they please, so the system works -- when they come, they dial in and they
have a special code, they can come in and out of the project when they want. Most of
them drive rarely, if ever. In fact, most of them we don't want to drive and even though
they bring their cars, their kids take their keys from them and just make them feel good
about it. They -- some of them will drive and they have access in and out, but the rest
of the residents that stay with us -- we only have three staff members on this project in
the evening. It's a pretty quiet setting. It's going to be a lot quieter than anything that
would be in a R-4 zone that would be a residential setting. I mean these guys go to
sleep and right after the 6:00 news and they get their dinner. It's a real quiet place.
Borup: That's been my experience with older people they don't like to drive when it's
dark. A couple years older than me.
Clegg: Are there any other --
Borup: Any other questions for Mr. Clegg? Okay. Thank you. Okay. Commissioners,
how would you like to proceed? Do we want to keep the hearing open or --
Newton-Huckabay: Mr. Chairman, I move that we close the Public Hearing.
Zaremba: I'll second that.
Borup: Motion and second to close the Public Hearings. All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borup: Discussion? Do we want a little bit of discussion first?
Rohm: Well, as near as I can tell, the issues associated with this development really
are existing already. Meridian Road is congested due to existing develops in the area
and it's that ingress onto Meridian Road or the left turn off of the traffic headed south
that causes congestion. I don't think that this project is going to change any of that,
really, for all intents and purposes. An assisted living development --those people don't
come and go on the high traffic hours of the day and so I'm not sure that that's going to
change anything and --
Borup: I would agree with that, that assisted living is probably the --
Rohm: The lowest impact development that you could have for that location. It seems
that way. It's not that I -- I listened to the testimony and I think that they have got some
valid concerns and I think the issues about the parking on the end here, if they move
that island and turn the parking the other direction, so that it minimizes the impact, I
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 89 of 100
think those are good suggestions and they come from comments taken in direct
testimony here.
Zaremba: Well -- and of the major issue by several -- mentioned by several people is
the traffic by the high school students, which has nothing to do with this project. I think
that's a problem that does need to get solved, but I, frankly, don't see how this project
has any effect on the high school students cutting through the neighborhood or not
cutting through the neighborhood and, I agree, I can't think of anything much more low
impact at traffic times than very senior citizens. I agree, they don't drive at dark they
don't drive --
Rohm: They don't drive.
Zaremba: I'm getting senior enough that lavoid -- I drive at night, but I avoid the
commuting times when I can.
Rohm: As do I.
Moe: I guess I would add -- the only thing I would add is I do have a concern with the
traffic as well, but, quite frankly, I would anticipate that going L-O, you're going to get
more traffic going in there with the office and what I heard tonight was the audience
really didn't oppose the office portion of this project. I agree, I think the assisted living
and whatnot is going to be far less traffic than people are anticipating, compared to what
the office is going to bring to that area.
Rohm: And maybe another way of looking at it is the overall development of this tract of
land, if it were to be developed alternately from this proposal and put additional
residents in there, it would, actually, end up being more --
Borup: There would be a lot more trips.
Rohm: There would be more trips --
Zaremba: As a planned development in R-4 it could have between 50 and 60 houses
built on it. If that's the normal, what, 2.9 people per house and one car for each of them,
I see that as being a lot heavier traffic impact.
Borup: And that was my point. The ACHD trip is 10 is that right?
Zaremba: Ten per house?
Borup: Ten or 20.
Zaremba: Ten per single family dwelling unit?
Borup: Yes 10 per day. I mean that's how they --that's how ACHD calculates the trips
Meridian Planning & Zoning commission
April 29, 2004
Page 90 of 100
Zaremba: So, an R-4 type development of approximately this acreage, between nine
and 10 acres could --
Borup: Five hundred trips.
Zaremba: Five hundred to 600 trips. I don't see this proposal generating that much
traffic.
Freckleton: Mr. Chair, in the Ada County Highway District report they are estimating
that Calderwood Drive currently carries approximately 800 vehicles trips per day and
this project is estimated to generated an additional 360. They also state that --
Borup: You think that's between -- that's the whole -- project as a whole?
Freckleton: Correct. They also state that due to the fact that the traffic volumes on
Calderwood are not anticipated to exceed 3,000 vehicle trips per day -- so they are
talking 3,000, but with the current 800, plus the additional 360, you're well below that
threshold. They are recommending that Calderwood Drive be constructed as a one half
of a 30-foot -- 36 foot street section, with vertical curb, gutter, and five foot concrete
sidewalk within a 50 foot right of way. I believe the 126-foot reference on the second
page of the report is just a typographical error, because they are talking in the report of
a 50-foot right of way, so I just wanted to clarify that.
Borup: Yes. I was wondering about those 120 feet.
Zaremba: Well, if the requirement is that this applicant build half the roadway, then, I'm
sure when the RUT property on the other side of Calderwood develops, that's where
they will get the other half.
Borup: Okay. Anything else pertinent for discussion? I think it's --
Newton-Huckabay: I have one comment and I think it might be helpful for the public to
explain why we can go from an R-4 to an R-15. Because I'm having a little trouble
understanding all that when I read through it myself.
Borup: Go ahead.
Newton-Huckabay: No. I don't want to go ahead.
Borup: Oh, I thought you said you wanted to share that --
Newton-Huckabay: I think staff can handle that just fine.
Kirkpatrick: Well, I will go ahead and explain that. Currently, the Comprehensive Plan
designation for the subject property is medium density residential and that entails R-4 to
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 91 of 100
R-8 zoning, basically. The future land use map, which is a part of the Comprehensive
Plan, allows for a user to ask for what we call one step up in density. If you have a
medium density that -- a medium density designation in the Comprehensive Plan map,
you can request a step up to high density. They are allowed R-8 as an outright use.
They are requesting R-15, that's their one step up. That's at the discretion of the
Planning and Zoning Commission. If you find it's appropriate, you can recommend
approval. If you don't -- again, it's at your discretion. That's how that works. It's done a
lot here in Meridian I have seen.
Newton-Huckabay: Thanks, Wendy.
Zaremba: Well -- and that part of it is true whether the consistency matrix was
approved or not right?
Kirkpatrick: Right.
Freckleton: Yes.
Kirkpatrick: Oh, and I wanted to just make anote -- if you all start heading this way, we
-- I do want to go ahead and delete my rather breezy comments on Page 10 under
special considerations. That should have been deleted. That's not meant to be a
condition, so --
Rohm: Well, let's see. I don't think there is anything in --
Zaremba: The only thing I would add in that spot would be to reverse the layout of the
turnaround and the parking.
Rohm: In the special considerations?
Zaremba: Yes. There is a condition.
Borup: Can you review your lots on that again as far as why? I can see that that's
going to put cars closer to the properly line, it's going to move -- it's going to have --
Rohm: I was thinking he was going to take these --
Borup: Right. That would put the drive aisle over there, so that's --and that's when the
cars are making noises when they are moving, not when they are parked.
Newton-Huckabay: How would they shine on --
Borup: Because the parking is changing with the -- if it goes over here and shifts; then,
they are going to have to be driving that -- through that area.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 92 of 100
Rohm: Well -- but their headlights, as opposed to be pointing this direction, they will be
rounding and coming back this way and the headlights will face back into the property,
rather than at the --
Borup: Well, that's what I was wondering. What headlights?
Rohm: Well, if there is any traffic at night, that's where they would be pointed.
Borup: If. Okay.
Rohm: Right.
Zaremba: Well, I think the point the Chairman is making, the Alzheimer's residents
aren't going to drive at all and the gates close at 8:00 for visitors and only the
independent living residents would have access in and out the gate and the three
employees, so --
Borup: Yes. That's what it was and that's the --
Rohm: So, we don't want to move the parking or is that --
Zaremba: I understand the -- if I understand the gate closing, there would be nobody
pulling in or out there.
Moe: Is that 8:00 year around?
Borup: Okay 8:00 year around. The only thing that might --
Zaremba: That's an affirmative answer.
Borup: Might consider exchanging the trash area with the storage building. The
storage building would act as a buffer for the trash enclosure, if the layout would
accommodate that. Do you see what I was talking there, David?
Zaremba: Yes.
Borup: That probably wouldn't be too bad of a buffer.
Newton-Huckabay: I think you could maybe put in there something about the -- you
know, the fencing or something or something between the two would be agreed upon by
the residents that back up to the property.
Borup: Right. That would be -- yes. I think that would be appropriate. Okay. Were we
still thinking that drive -- or the parking area needs to be redesigned?
Rohm: I don't know that it does.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 28, 2004
Page 93 of 100
Borup: There could be a couple of people down here drag racing around there at night,
maybe. I don't know.
Rohm: We are getting tired, aren't we?
Zaremba: Well, I actually think it becomes a daytime issue. I guess the question still is
would we rather have the traffic -- the people starting their cars and parking their cars
facing the other direction even during the daytime, it's not a nighttime light in the
bedroom issue, I guess, but the noise --
Borup: That may be.
Zaremba: The noise issue may still exist and having it be that much farther away might
help.
Rohm: So, would that be a plat issue, then, or would --
Zaremba: Yes. It would be a plat issue. I'm not sure it would be major enough. I
would consider that minor enough for staff level discussion.
Borup: That probably makes sense.
Rohm: Yes. I don't think -- I think that they can make those kinds of adjustments,
because that doesn't move the parking lot, it just --
Zaremba: It doesn't change the number of spaces.
Rohm: All right.
Zaremba: Are you on?
Rohm: Yes. I don't think they are going to make any changes. I think I can handle this.
All right. Mr. Chairman?
Borup: Commissioner Rohm.
Rohm: I move to recommend approval of File Number RZ 04-004, request for Rezone
of 9.47 acres from R-4 to L-O and R-15 zones for Southwoods Subdivision by
Calderwood Community, LLC., 2090 South Meridian Road, including all staff comments,
dated April 29~', received April 26tH
Zaremba: I will second that.
Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 94 of 100
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I move that we recommend approval of File Number PP 04-007,
request for a Preliminary Plat approval for 15 building lots, 14 lots -- 14 office and one
residential and one common lot of 9.47 acres in a proposed R-15 and L-O zones for
Southwoods Subdivision by Calderwood Community, LLC, 2090 South Meridian Road,
including all staff comments for the hearing date April 29, 2004, received April 26, 2004.
Moe: Second.
Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Rohm: Mr. Chairman, I move we recommend approval of File Number CUP 04-008,
request for a Conditional Use Permit for a planned development for office and assisted
living in a proposed R-15 and L-O zones for Southwoods Subdivision by Calderwood
Community, LLC, 2090 South Meridian Road, including all staff comments for the
hearing date April 29, 2004, received April 26, 2004.
Kirkpatrick: Chairman, Members of the Commission, remember, additionally you
wanted to delete the special consideration comment Number 1. The breezy comment.
Borup: Wendy's very worried about that.
Kirkpatrick: I want it gone.
Rohm: I think -- I don't think we are going to do anything with the parking we are going
to leave that up to staff, working with them for their Final Plat.
Newton-Huckabay: And what about fencing between the neighbors that back up
directly to that, does that need to be included in your motion?
Rohm: I think the fencing takes care of itself. It's already listed as a consideration and
special considerations on Page 10 will be deleted. End of motion.
Moe: I'll second.
Borup: Motion and second. All in favor? Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Borup: Thank you. I guess it looks like the neighbors are gone. I don't know if this --
there has been a lot of concern on property values, but, you know, I could see a lot of
people moving into those subdivisions just so they could be close to their to parents and
Meridian Planning 8 Zoning Commission
April 29, 2004
Page 95 of 100
that could be a very desirable location with -- I mean a lot of people have their children
-- we are taking a temporary break. We are going to reconvene our meeting.
Zaremba: Back on the record.
Item 16. Update on Mussell Corner:
Borup: We are. Our last three items are little update information. Item 16 was an
update on Mussell Corner.
Powell: Chairman Borup, Members of the Commission, you may remember --
Borup: Yes. We turned it down.
Powell: Well, Mr. Zaremba started to make a motion to recommend denial and I said
no, no, no, you have to actually deny it. Well, I was wrong. On a combined
preliminary/Final Plat you are actually a recommending body. We forwarded a
recommendation for denial to the City Council for you all, just so you know that. Just
wanted you to know that --
Gabbert: Anna, can I clarify that? When the preliminary/Final Plat comes through on its
own, then, we deny?
Powell: Correct. If it's a Preliminary Plat you deny on your -- if its stands alone. If it's a
combined preliminary/Final Plat, a recommendation for denial.
Borup: That makes sense, because City Council does the Final Plats. Is that the
reason?
Powell: I guess so. That was -- Commissioner Zaremba is smirking over there
Zaremba: What I was trying to say is that the original maker of the motion is satisfied
with the outcome. It certainly meets the intent of what we were planning to do.
Powell: And, then, the other update was not on the agenda, but,. again, with the matrix
and I think as staff what we learned is we have got to have a little more in the record
when we go forward to City Council on some of these things, even though we had
verbal, kind of popular opinion approval.
Borup: You didn't tell them that 100 percent of the public testimony was in favor?
Powell: Yes.
Zaremba: Didn't we actually have Public Hearings, though?
Borup: Yes.