HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015-12-22Meridian City Council December 22, 2015
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:05 p.m., Tuesday,
December 22, 2015, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Tammy, de Weerd, Charlie Rountree, Keith Bird, David Zaremba, Joe
Borton, Genesis Milam and Luke Cavener.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Bruce Chatterton, Josh Beach, Warren
Stewart, Mike de St. Germain, Mark Niemeyer, Bruce Freckleton, Robert Simison and
Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance:
X David Zaremba X Joe Borton
X Charlie Rountree X Keith Bird
X Genesis Milam X Lucas Cavener
X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us here tonight. Sorry we are starting a few minutes
late. We were able to have a recognition send off to two of our Council members who are
concluding their public service to this community. Certainly it will be a great loss to our
community. In some regards closing one era, chapter, and opening up the next. So, we
appreciate you joining us here this evening. For the record it is Tuesday, December 22nd.
It's five minutes after 6:00. We will start with roll call attendance, Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join us in the
pledge to the flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Larry Woodard with Ten Mile Christian
Church
De Weerd: Thank you for that, Madam Clerk. I almost thought I was going to get away
with that. Item No. 3 is our community invocation. We will start tonight with Larry
Woodard. He is with Ten Mile Christian Church. We appreciate you coming and kicking
us off this evening with the right start. We would invite all of you to join us in this
community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment reflection. Thank you,
Larry, for being here.
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December 22, 2015
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Woodard: It's my pleasure and want to wish all of you a Merry Christmas and I especially
want to thank you, too, that are going off for a great time of service and you will be missed
and I can guarantee that.
Rountree: Thank you, Larry.
Woodard: Let's pray. Our Dear Heavenly Father, some of this Council are nearing the
end of their tenure governing this city. I pray that they will have good health and pleasant
memories of their time on this Council. Tonight we want to thank you for the greatest gift
ever given to mankind and that was sending your Son Jesus. May we in 2015 and '16
uphold the basic principles he thought during his short time on earth. May we honor those
who give their time looking after our well being. May the many school teachers here in
Meridian be blessed for the time they spend with our children. There are many new
residences being built in our city and I pray that those who come will enjoy its benefits as
we have over the years. I pray especially tonight for each Council member and our
Mayor. They have helped develop an atmosphere in this city which is friendly, where
people care for their neighbors and it's just a great place to live. Just this week a young
girl went missing and I know her parents were terribly frightened. After two days of people
searching and praying she was found safe and I thank all who had a hand in resolving this
situation. We pray tonight for all our citizens and the expected influx of new residents who
heard through the media now about Meridian being the best place to live. May they feel
welcome and may they soon become a part of this outstanding community. However, all
is not perfect in our city and last week the arrest of nine drug dealers is disconcerting. I
thank the detectives and the drug task force in tracking down these criminals. I pray that
you will help us keep ourselves safe. You know, this next year there is going to be major
street widenings to accommodate growth, be more utilities to the many new homes,
adding schools to our city. There are many things that will occupy this Council this next
year. May the wisdom that we have had in this Council in the past continue. Tonight we
are saddened by the news from the Middle East. We pray for our service men and
women who are overseas. The loss of six men here this last -- this week is disconcerting.
I know that some of our Meridian families have sons now serving in Afghanistan and I can
imagine their worry when they heard that six had been lost. I just pray that they will be
comforted. God, I just ask that you bless this city like you have done in the past and may
we measure up to your expectations, in Jesus' name, amen.
De Weerd: Thank you, Larry.
Woodard: You bet.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
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December 22, 2015
Page 3 of 45
Rountree: On Item 5 it's been requested to move Item 5-F to Item 6. On Item 5-M, the
resolution number is 15-1108. On Item 7-13 the resolution number is 15-1109. And it's
been requested to move Item 7-C to the Consent Agenda as Item 5-N. With those
changes, Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the agenda.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have motion and a second to adopt the agenda as amended. All those in
favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED. ALL AYES.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of December 8, 2015 City Council Workshop
Meeting
B. Approval of Award of Bid and Agreement to GRANITE
EXCAVATION, INC. for the "Ashford Greens Trunk Sewer -
Construction" project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of
$1,073,850.56
C. Approval of Task Order 10012.e to CIVIL SURVEY
CONSULTANTS, INC. for the "Well 30 Pumping Facilities -
Design" project for a Not -To -Exceed amount of $88,762.00
D. Street Light and Electrical Maintenance Agreement for Ada
County Juvenile Detention Center at 1024 W. Franklin Road
E. Water Right Transfer Application Agreement with Nampa &
Meridian Irrigation District
F. Agreement with Kristy Swinney for Wellness Massage Services
H. Sanitary Sewer and Water Main Easements with Property
Owners along the Idaho Transportation Department's Franklin
Road, Black Cat to Ten Mile Project
A. Permanent Sewer and Water Easement with Richard and
Nance Ellis
B. Permanent Sewer and Water Easement with Rick
Aberasturi
C. Temporary Construction Easement with Rick Aberasturi
D. Permanent Sewer Easement with Jerry and Carol Trana
E. Permanent Sewer and Water Easement with Matthew
Lebaron
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December 22, 2015
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F. Temporary Construction Easement with Matthew Lebaron
G. Permanent Sewer and Water Easement with Christiansen
Family Limited Partnership
H. Permanent Sewer and Water Easement with Buyrite, LLC
I. Temporary Construction Easement with Buyrite, LLC
J. Permanent Sewer and Water Easement with MGB
Investment, LLC and White Cloud Investments, LLC
K. Temporary Construction Easement with MGB Investment,
LLC and White Cloud Investments, LLC
L. Permanent Sewer and Water Easement with John and
Dorine Taggart
M. Temporary Construction Easement with John and Dorine
Taggart N. Temporary Construction Easement with John
and Dorine Taggart O. Permanent Sewer and Water
Easement with Mark Choi
I. Final Order: H-2015-0004 Shelburne Subdivision No. 1 by
Shelburne Properties, LLC Located 1/4 Mile East of S. Eagle
Road and North of E. Amity Road Request: Final Plat Approval
Consisting of Forty -Eight (48) Building Lots and Twelve (12)
Common Lots on 19.42 Acres of Land in the R-4 Zoning District
J. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Una Mas (H-2015-0016)
by Glenn Walker, NeuDesign Architecture Located Southwest
Corner of E. Ustick Road and N. Records Avenue Request:
Modification to the Development Agreement to Remove the
Requirement for all Building Elevations to be in Substantial
Conformance with the Previously Approved Elevations
K. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law and Order for Twelve Oaks
Center Subdivision (H-2015-0025) by Twelve Oakes, LLC Located
South Side of W. Franklin Road, Approximately 1/4 Mile West of
S. Linder Road; Request: Short Plat Approval Consisting of Four
(4) Building Lots on 1.44 Acres of Land in a C -C Zoning District
L. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for TM Creek East (H-2015-
0018) by SCS Brighton, LLC Located Southeast Corner of S. Ten
Mile Road and W. Franklin Road; Request: Annexation and
Zoning of 14.93 Acres of Land with an R-40 Zoning District;
Request: Modification to the Development Agreement (Inst.
#1140457759) for TM Creek to Include the Subject 14.93 Acre
Parcel in the Agreement
M. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Calnon Properties (H-
2015-0017) by Kostka & Calnon, LLC / Calnon Enterprises, LTD
Located 2215 W. Franklin Road; Request: Annexation and
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December 22, 2015
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Zoning of 55.55 Acres of Land with C -C (40.06 Acres), TN -C (5.46
Acres) and TN -R (10.03 Acres) Zoning Districts AND Amendment
to the Future Land Use Map Contained in the Ten Mile
Interchange Specific Area Plan to Change the Land Use
Designation on 40.06 Acres of Land from Medium High and High
Density Residential to Mixed Use Commercial; and 15.49 Acres
of Land from Medium, Medium -High and High Density
Residential to Mixed Use Residential
N. Resolution No. 15-1108: Acceptance of Ownership of Main Street
Improvements as Constructed by Meridian Development
Corporation
M. Continued from December 15, 2015: Resolution Number 15-1107
: PY 2014 CDBG Consolidated Annual Performance Evaluation
Report (CAPER)
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda as amended. Authorizing the
Clerk to attest and the Mayor to sign.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. Madam Clerk,
will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED. ALL AYES.
Item 6: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda
G. First Amendment to Recipient Agreement Between City of
Meridian and Boys and Girls Clubs of Ada County for
Contribution of Funds
De Weerd: Item 6. We did remove one item from Item 5-F to this place and I will ask for
staff comments.
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December 22, 2015
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Nary: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, we have an amendment
that was on the agenda with the Boys and Girls Club. It is related to the recipient
agreement of the city's participation in the gym project. The original agreement
contemplated the completion and occupancy of the gym by the end of December. Based
on weather and some other issues and some of that -- some of it was related to the
project being slightly changed, not in relation to the gym, but to the teen center that was
being constructed, that they don't expect the gym's completion until January 15th barring
any other type of delay based on weather. So, we ask -- we prepared an agreement that
would extend the date of completion actually to the end of February to make sure we
covered any delay of any sort that might occur that they wouldn't, then, be in default or be
at risk of the city claiming they were in default. Mr. Siddoway from the Parks Department
did contact the Boys and Girls Club Director Colleen Braga, sent her the agreement,
asked her to get it signed before tonight. I -- he hasn't gotten a response back. My guess
is might be out of town because of the holidays and hasn't been able to get back with him.
We ask if the Council is willing to approve the agreement and we wouldn't ask the Mayor
for signature until we get that signed approval, because we don't have a meeting next
week I was hopeful that we could get this done by the end of the year and have it put
behind us, but I didn't want to wait until January 5th. If you prefer to wait until January 5th
don't think it's going to harm anything, but we just wanted to get this sort of buttoned up
and put aside if we could. So, if you're okay with it we just ask you to approve it pending
the Mayor -- or pending signature of the Boys and Girls Club's director and the Mayor
would sign after that.
De Weerd: Well, if anyone is confused I would say that our agenda has item -- two items
under F. So, the item on page one, that item F is not what we just discussed. It's the Item
F on page two that doesn't have a letter beside it is the one we moved. So, just thought I
would clarify in case someone was trying to figure out why he was talking about the Boys
and Girls Club and massage services.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Hearing no comments or anything, I would move that we approve the first
amendment to the recipient agreement between the City of Meridian and the Boys and
Girls Club for contribution of funds and the delay of the construction because of weather
and other sources and for the Mayor to sign after the Boys and Girls Club has signed the
agreement.
Milam: Second.
Cavener: Second.
Milam: Okay. I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Rountree: I have none.
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 7 of 45
De Weerd: I'm sure you have all driven by there and it's making good progress and the
gymnasium will open up prior to the teen center, but they wanted to make sure that we
didn't do anything until all of the addition is ready and occupyable, if that's a word, Bruce.
Occupyable. Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED. ALL AYES.
Item 7: Action Items.
A. Public Hearing Continued from December 15, 2015 for Jackson
Headquarters Vacation (H-2015-0028) by B & A Engineers, Inc.
Located at 3410 & 3500 W. Commercial Court
1. Request: Vacate a Portion (10x135.5 feet) of the 10 -Foot
Wide Public Utility and Drainage Easement Located on the
East Boundary of Lot 3, Block 2 and the West Boundary of Lot
4, Block 2 that is Platted with the Commerce Park Subdivision
De Weerd: 7-A under Action Items is a public hearing continued from December 15th for
the Jackson headquarters vacation. This has been resolved. I will turn this over to staff.
Beach: Yes, thank you, Mayor, Council Members. This is continued from a week ago on
the 15th of December. Again, just to state that this is an application to vacate a portion or
ten by 135 and a half feet of a ten foot wide public utility and drainage easement located
on the eastern boundary of Lot 3, Block 2, and the west boundary of Lot 4, Block 2, that is
platted with the Commerce Park Subdivision. Approval of the subject vacation application
will remove a portion of that public utility and drainage easement and allow the applicant
to submit and receive a building permit to construct an addition to the existing industrial
office building. This was continued because it did not have a letter from CenturyLink and
we have since received that. So, staff is in favor of this application and stand for any
questions you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you. Does the applicant -- is the applicant here this evening? Do you
have anything you would like to add?
Crawford: Mayor, Council Members, my name is David Crawford, I'm with B&A
Engineers. My address is 5505 West Franklin Road in Boise. I'm here representing the
applicant. To say that we would -- and to concur with the staff report as written, that we
agree with the conditions of the approval. We would like to thank the city for assisting us
in getting the CenturyLink approval. It was a long process. Also to just reiterate that we
had found that the appeal period that was required, as I understand it, couldn't be waived,
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 8 of 45
but we acknowledge that the city would accept our application for a building permit and
subsequently release it prior to that appeal period and we certainly appreciate all the help
that goes along with that. The difficulties in obtaining the approval from these individual
entities -- we couldn't have done it on our own, because it didn't happen. So, we certainly
appreciate that and I will stand for any questions you may have.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Crawford, maybe you could elaborate. We heard in the public hearing last
week there was some other potential community organizations that are encountering the
same issues that you had. Could you maybe share what -- what ultimately resulted in the
resolution that you received?
De Weerd: No.
Cavener: Okay.
De Weerd: Other than teamwork.
Cavener: Teamwork is great.
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, just to maybe clarify on this appeal issue.
This is a vacation under Title 50 of Idaho Code. It doesn't have an appeal period. That's
why we can issue a building permit tomorrow. The appeal period under Title 11, which is
our UDC, is related to appeals to the Council, not from the Council. So, the Council
decision is final. It's done. There is no other appeal necessary. This resolution gets
done, it will be signed and gets recorded and we can issue a building permit. So, there is
no appeal that's necessary to waive or anything else. So, we can move forward. The
resolution is in front of you for approval.
De Weerd: Okay.
Crawford: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions?
Rountree: No. That's great.
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December 22, 2015
Page 9 of 45
De Weerd: Other than we did find the right contact. So, thank you.
Crawford: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. This is a public hearing
testimony on this item? Okay. Council?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Is there anyone who would like to offer
Rountree: I move that we approve resolution 15-1109.
Bird: Got to close the public hearing first.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Would -- and --
Rountree: And close the public hearing.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to close the public hearing and approve the request for
a vacation. Any discussion from Council? Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED. ALL AYES.
B. Resolution No. 15-1109: A Resolution (Jackson Headquarters H-
2015-0028) Vacating A Portion (10'x 135.5' area) of the 10 -foot
Wide Public Utility, Drainage and Irrigation Easement along the
East Boundary of Lot 3, Block 2 and the West Boundary of Lot 4,
Block 2 Platted with Commerce Park Subdivision located at 3410
and 3500 Commercial Court, located in the Southwest Quarter of
Section 9, Township 3 North, Range 1 East Boise Meridian, City
of Meridian, Ada County, Idaho
De Weerd: Next is a resolution 15-1109
resolution.
Rountree: It's approved.
De Weerd: Oh. Sorry.
I would entertain a motion to approve this
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 10 of 45
Item 8: Department Reports
A. Discussion Regarding Request from Silver Oak Apartments
Regarding Water/Sewer Assessments for Multi -Family Projects
De Weerd: Okay. Item 8-A. Council, you have a letter in your packet of information
regarding -- to have a discussion of -- on this letter in response to the letter that the city
sent out. I met with the -- the signers of the letter that you have in front of you and they
have requested to come and discuss the contents in their -- in their letter with Council. I
guess I would ask Mr. Nary for just a little background before I ask the -- the cosigners of
the letter for their comment.
Nary: Thank you, Madam Mayor. Well, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, so the
basis of the letter what was sent by the city in November of 2015 was notifying
developers, community partners, customers, of the Community Development Department
regards to a particular city code section in Section 9-4-24, subsection B, and that's how
assessments are -- how assessments are done on all different types of development and
in the code section it has one primary preferred method of how calculations -- and,
basically, there is a table that says if you're building a certain type of facility -- and that
could be anything from a multi -family, to a bank, to a barbershop, to a bowling alley -- it
has a variety of different uses and it's how the calculations -- or how that type of use is
calculated as to what the sewer and water assessment that is assessed on that property
when they come for a building permit. So, there is a preferred method that's listed in the
code and it has alternative methods that can be considered, but it doesn't state the basis
of when the alternatives might be used or not used or what information would be
necessary to apply that alternative method. So, this was putting on notice all users and
customers of the community development that from that point forward in this fiscal year --
it actually stated as of October 1 and the letter went out November -- that all of the uses
would be done under the preferred method, which is listed in the table. That prompted a
letter from the developers of the Silver Oaks project, which is on Franklin Road, adjacent
to the Ten Mile Church, because it's a multi -family unit and they had previously under
phase one had had their assessments based on the alternative formula and now they are
being advised that that was no longer the case, it would be based on the way the table is
designed and the table for multi -family units, whether it be one, two or three bedroom
units, are assessed at one equivalent residential unit for each unit. So, whether it's a one
bedroom, a two bedroom, or three bedroom apartment, it's assessed the same as an
equivalent residential unit that we would use and the comparable is the -- that's the same
methodology and the same formula we use for single family residences. So, that's what
prompted the letter and so both the Mayor and Council President Rountree agreed to
allow them this opportunity to present both the letter that you have already received as
part of the record, as well as any other additional comment and, of course, any questions
that you might have. So, if you have any other questions. That's the basis of what
prompted the city's initial letter and the response that you have received.
De Weerd: Good evening, Graye.
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December 22, 2015
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Wolfe: Good evening, Mayor.
De Weerd: If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Wolfe: Graye Wollfe. G -r -a -y -e. W -o -I -f -e. I'm from Boise. 9418 North Winterwood Lane
in Boise and I represent the developers and the partners in the development and I do
have a handout. Shall I give this to the clerk to pass out to the Council members? Okay.
I want to thank the departing Council members who have known about this project I think
for how many years, but there is some really good stuff happening out there. So, thank
you, Mr. Nary, for your comments. I think we came down -- we were a little bit surprised
with the letter and the letter -- the letter is actually part of this package, but you have seen
the letter. The letter was dated November 24th and it was made retroactive back to
October 1st and the city has been working with us for quite some time. Phase one
originally was going to be 260 units and because of our financing we had to break up,
quote, unquote, phase one into two phases. So, phase one originally was 260 units, now
phase one is 123 and phase two is the remaining 132. So, we are under construction
right now for 128 of the original 260 and if you will look in the package that I gave you, it's
numbered page -- is someone missing one? I have got an extra one. Mr. Nary, I will give
you --
Nary: Great. Thank you.
Wolfe: If you look at -- excuse me. If you will look at page number -- be page number
one, you will see that back in November of 2014 -- you will see there we were working on
phase one, which was 260 units. So, the city has known that there is more units,
basically, going to be built as, quote, unquote, phase one. Phase two we are in the
process of -- of all of our design work, basically all of that's ready to go. Our financing
package is in with our lender. And so when we received the letter we were a little bit
blindsided by the fact that, you know, we have already -- already got applications in with
the bank and if you will -- the very last page of my handout that I have given you, you will
see that it's quite a large increase. You can see that phase one, the actual impact fees
that were paid for phase one were 6,424 dollars and the phase two with the new impact
with the letter that we received it will go to $8,920.56, which is an increase of 2,496 dollars
and 38 percent. So, while we understand that the city can do this, it's quite a large
amount of money for us to have come at us when we were planning on a phase of 260,
when the city knew that we were doing that, number one. Number two, the phase one
and phase two combined is about 32 million dollars. The phase that's under construction
right now for 128 units is 17 million. So, just in the first 260 there is 32 million dollars there
and while it may not seem like a lot of money in total, if you look at what we are having to
come up with in cash for the development, it was -- it was a 320,000 dollar surprise.
Phase three, which will be on the drawing board, is another 109 units, which is an
additional 12 million. So, the total development will be three sixty-nine. We -- we meet
the needs for multi -family in the city, we believe, which has been short for years and
years. We have previously discussed the impact in connection fees that would be
charged the city and staff, so we were, basically, depending on this second phase to be
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December 22, 2015
Page 12 of 45
the same as the first phase and had we have known that the letter was coming and it was
going to be October the 1st, we would have been able to come to the city and say we
want to pull these building permits before you do this to us and that was probably the
biggest part of our surprise when we found that, because we were ready to go with phase
two at this point and we could have come down, paid the fee, and saved us 329,000
dollars. The connection fees that were paid that we were charged for phase one were
reasonable and allowed our project to go forward and this change has -- has definitely put
-- I guess some challenges. We have five different investors in the project and now the
cash needs -- coming up with the cash to fund the additional fees is not good timing for
us, especially when we have things in with the lender. Our concerns -- we want to be
really be fair with the city. You guys have been very fair with us. Our concerns are largely
focused on predictability and fairness. We have worked closely with the city and like any
developer we need to be able to identify our city -based costs with some level of
predictability. An increase of this magnitude just destroys our ability to plan and there is
no difference between the costs created by phase one and phase two, that there is a
329,000 dollar difference. The cost exceeds anything we have seen in other jurisdictions
still and we would expect economies of scale to factor in as well. For the amount being
charged we could, ostensibly, basically, build our own system on site. So, how do we fix
this? We are invested in the city just as we are invested in the project. The unexpected
increase in fees puts an economic hole in the project that we now have to address and we
would like to explore means by which the fees could possibly be reconsidered to the
previous phase one level and if the fees won't be or can't be changed, we would just like
to understand how they were calculated and what they are calculated to cover, so we can
make an appropriate and informed decision regarding the next steps going forward with
the rest of the development of the project. So, that's basically where we are and where
we are coming from.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Yeah. You mentioned that you based your -- your numbers on phase one,
which were generated probably several years ago before you entered into your financing
proposal, but you didn't check with the city, so you did that on an assumption that they
were going to be the same?
Wolfe: I guess what I would say is when we first went to financing phase one was 260
units and as a result of the way the financing came back we broke what we were calling
phase one into phase one and phase two. So, when we came to the city -- we actually
had come to the city and met with the Mayor's new development person who had just
moved here from Chicago and had gone down through all of the assessments the other
cities in Idaho -- the larger cities had been charging for assessments and we were able to
workout a special assessment at that point for the first 260. So, we had gone through and
did phase one and had -- basically had -- what word do I want to use? Planned on the
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December 22, 2015
Page 13 of 45
260 units being at that number. Because our financing changed, we had to break it into
two different -- two different phases. So, as we were working with the city on the second
phase, the rest of the -- the rest of phase one and phase two together, we were still under
the assumption that when we went and did the planning, went for the financing, we were
going to be able to rely on what those fees were on that the first phase, the first 128 units.
So, it was a complete surprise to us after we had submitted our financing package to get
the letter on November 24th that on October 1 st the fee was going to go up and that was
-- that was where we figured, you know, if we were going to be told that the fee was going
to go up on November -- or October the 1 st, we would have been able to come in and do
some planning and at least have some pre -prior notice to be able to say we want to move
this thing up. Let's get our building permits and let's go ahead and pay the fees now,
because it will save us 329,000, let's get these in now. We weren't -- we had the ability to
pre -plan on phase two, because we were still assuming we were still going to be having --
having the same fees on the second set with phase two. Does that make sense?
Rountree: I understand what you're saying, yes. In your letter you make a statement that
we were now in a position to try to figure out how we can continue phase two. Have you
done any work in that regard?
Wolfe: Yes, we have. It's just going to, basically, come out of our pockets. We are going
to have to fund the -- we are going to have to fund it with additional cash from the
investors and the problem with this -- and I guess the challenge -- if it's not a problem --
the challenge with this is you go to investors, you know, invest in a project based on the
rent returns and the cap rates of return and when you have to go back to the investor and
say, well, you know, the city changed the rules, we have got 329,000 dollars more in fees,
the lender is not going to pay, we have got to come up with that to change the -- it
changes the return to the investors. So, we are not -- we are not standing in front of you
today saying we can't continue the project because of the increase in fees, we just want to
be -- we want to understand the methodology of how the increase was calculated and why
we were not informed prior to October 1 st, so we could have planned to come in and save
ourself 329,000. We could have easily given you the money and paid for them and saved
us some money if we would have known prior to October 1st and I think that's where we
are coming from. We have no problem with the fee if we can understand how you
charged it. We just have a hard time with the timing of it, if that make sense.
Rountree: Follow up, Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Rountree: You have indicated a couple times that you could and can and you're still ready
to submit those. Can you have those submitted by the first of the year?
Wolfe: With the holiday I don't know.
Rountree: I see some heads shaking.
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December 22, 2015
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Wolfe: With the holiday I would have to check. Our builders -- or our partners -- two of
our partners in the project are Hanson Rice Construction, ESI has contracted -- they will
be the contractor on the next phase as well. I would have to -- I would have to get back
with the Council and let you know. I can't speak for them tonight, they are not here.
would say that there is very very little change to the plan, the building types. Basically, it's
-- it's the same. It would be very little work for us to be able to get it submitted I would
think first week to ten days of January. But there is very little change. Dave, am I correct
in that? Okay. And we have the cash that we could do that.
Rountree: And you also make a comment in your letter that the loan could be in jeopardy
with this change. Do you know for a fact that it is and, if so, what is the jeopardy?
Wolfe: It's submitted. If we go back to the investors and say there is 329,000 dollars
more that's needed to fund this thing and one of the investors were to back out, we would
have to pull one of the investors out of the loan package, it could -- it could have -- it could
have an effect on the loan. I can't speak for the lender. But if one of the -- one of the
partners says I can't come up with my percentage of the 329,000, then, it could. I mean I
don't -- I can't predict that.
Rountree: So, it's not necessarily the loan per se, but it's the partnership and the --
Wolfe: Well, I would say that the lender -- if the lender is comfortable with the -- with the
partners now, we are using the same lender again, so if that were to change I'm hopeful
that wouldn't -- it wouldn't affect it.
Rountree: Okay. That's the jeopardy, the loss of an investor.
Wolfe: That's correct.
Rountree: Not the HUD financing.
Wolfe: No. If we lost an investor.
Rountree: Thank you.
Wolfe: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Mr. Wolfe, I take it phase two -- your financing was in place with the older
assessment; right?
Wolfe: Correct.
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December 22, 2015
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Bird: And you had that in place by October 1st?
Wolfe: The phase two financing approvals?
Bird: Yes.
Wolfe: No. The phase two financing approval is being reviewed and it's in for approval
now.
Bird: Oh, in for approval.
Wolfe: Phase one is already done, funded, and we are under construction.
Bird: And you paid the fees on that.
Wolfe: Yes.
Bird: The regular --
Wolfe: Yes, sir. So, the 132 that will be in phase two, we have not funded that. It's not
approved yet. We are in the process of getting it approved. But I would -- I can't speak
for the staff, but the staff is very -- we have worked very closely with the staff. Phase two
is going to be pretty much the same as phase one, with the exception of small color
choices that we are doing on the exterior of the building, but pretty much we are ready to
go with phase two. Any questions?
De Weerd: You know, I'm struggling because I -- I understand your predicament, but to
go on the assumption that nothing changes when you're putting your figures together,
know when I went to close on my house -- our cabin, things changed in just a week's time
and we had to go and verify with the title company. I touched base with our staff and said,
you know, have you been communicating with them and they haven't heard from you that
-- to touch base and say is the estimates that we got two years ago when you started
phase one -- what is the timeline on this?
Wolfe: So, you're -- Mayor, are you saying that no one from our architects office, no one
from Hanson Rice, no one from ESI had communicated with you at all on phase two?
De Weerd: I guess I would ask that of staff.
Freckleton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, I checked with Terry Ricks today.
Terry is the staff member in our office that does the calculations on all the assessments
and she provided me an e-mail that was dated August 6 of 2012 where she had
communications back and forth with Dave Cooper regarding the fees. They wanted to get
an estimate of what the fees would be, because they were getting ready to do phase one.
Excuse me. Her e-mail was December 16th of 2011 where she put those fees together.
It was then August of -- August 6th of 2012 that they followed back up, because they had
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-- they wanted to just verify, because there was a gap in time there, that those fees were
still -- still accurate and she did reply that -- that the estimate remains good at that point in
time. She did tell me that she has not had direct communication with anybody since then
regarding phase two.
Wolfe: Okay. So, what I would say to this is this: We know what the fees were on phase
one. We paid phase one fees. So, I guess -- I guess it's our bad for assuming that when
the process of getting ready to work on phase two there is correspondence in the packet
that I gave you that in 2014 you knew we were working on another -- another 132 units.
We have no problem with the fee increase. We have no problem with the change. We
have a problem with a letter dated November 24th that says they are changing on October
1 st. That's the problem that we -- we are just -- we just want to understand why there was
no preplanning, why we weren't told, because if we would have been told I'm telling you
we would have had the money to come down and just say, okay, let's get this done, it's
going to save us 329,000 dollars, let's go ahead and get it done. So, it's not that the city
can't change the fees, we are not saying that, but there was correspondence, obviously, if
you look at the November 14th letter they were working on another 132 units at the same
time. We will pay the fee. We just want it to be fair, we want to understand how it was
calculated why we weren't told prior to October 1st it was going to change and
communication is a two way street. That's all we are saying. It's not a situation where we
are thinking this is a horrible deal, we are going to stop the project, we are not here
threatening, we are just trying to understand the methodology of how fees change and
what they are for and, secondly, why did we not -- why did we not know prior to October
1st? Why were we told almost 60 days later that they are going to go up 39 percent?
That's -- that's where we are coming from. That's bottom line. The staff has been great to
work with. We are not saying we have been misled, other than getting a letter that's 60
days after the date and after the fact saying they are going to go up 39 percent. We have
a problem with that and if we have to pay it, then, we'd just like to understand how it was
calculated and why it went down this way. That's all.
De Weerd: Okay. And I think staff can respond to that, but at the time when this was --
was looked at on when the effective date should be, there was nothing in the pipeline.
Our staff worked with a number of different stakeholders and they were part of the
communication and so perhaps you can even discuss this.
Freckleton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, you know, we felt -- we felt that it
was important to communicate out to the development community and that letter was
generated as a courtesy to try and -- to try and inform those projects that we felt that were
-- you know, that we had had contact with in the last few months. So, certainly I don't
believe that our ordinance requires a notification, but we did feel it was -- it was important
to communicate out to that group.
De Weerd: I don't think there was any malice or any intent, but because you hadn't been
in we didn't know that phase two -- what the timing was. We knew it was out there, just
like all the other ones.
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December 22, 2015
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Wolfe: Our architect David Ruby I believe has been working on phase two with someone
at the city. He's not here this evening. I find it hard to believe that a project of that
magnitude that we are spending -- in the first two phases alone 32 million bucks and we
are rolling into phase two, that no one on staff had any contact with Mr. Ruby on phase
two. I'm not going to speak for him, but I would be very surprised that no one on city staff
knew we were moving forward with phase two.
De Weerd: And I would agree with you and that's why I have looked into it, because I had
the same questions that you have. But I also feel that it's important that as you ask those
questions that you know we have asked those questions as well and at this point we
haven't found that person that your --
Wolfe: Okay.
De Weerd: -- your team has contacted on phase two. So, I'm sure that we would have
contacted you as this was contemplated going to the standard practice that has been
employed for a number of years and so if they knew that you were active in your phase
two I can only imagine that that contact would have been made.
Wolfe: Okay. So, that being said, I guess our question would, then, be in the realm of
fairness, when did the effect -- when did the actual increase take effect? The 24th, 25th
-- the 24th was when the letter was dated or on October the 1 st? That would be my next
question. And did it actually take place on October 1st or did it take place on November
24th when the letter was dated?
De Weerd: The letter was dated to just let people know that the --
Wolfe: So, you made the change -- you made the change on the 1st, but, really, nobody
knew about it until the letter went out on the 24th?
De Weerd: Anyone that walked in the door would have known about it and anyone with
an active application would have as well.
Wolfe: Okay.
De Weerd: That's what I was -- was advised.
Wolfe: Okay. Then I guess what we would like to know, then, I guess as the developer is
how those fees have been calculated, so we can have an understanding of why they went
up 39 percent and I think that -- I think we deserve to get that answer if we are going to be
paying them, since we are building in the city. Am I right or wrong on that?
De Weerd: Certainly I offered that. Our staff was willing to sit down and go over that with
you --
Wolfe: Okay.
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December 22, 2015
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De Weerd: -- when you came in and I know they still are available to do that.
Wolfe: Okay. So, hopefully, the Council understands our surprise of the way it happened.
It's unfortunate, because we really could have come down and done something with
phase two and paid them in advance and saved ourself the fee. It just seems odd -- it
seemed odd to us that we would get the letter the 60 -- 1 guess a courtesy letter 60 days
after the fact that the change took place and we didn't -- we didn't know about it, so --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I just had a thought in regards to the time frame -- and I understand -- yes.
understand your frustration, because it does seem very odd. However, if the letter went
out on October 1 st as a courtesy, we would be in the same place we are today. Unless a
letter went out a month early saying, hey, we are going to raise the rates, which I don't
believe is common practice, then, you would have had the opportunity to come in ahead
of time, so -- so I'm wrong on that, so -- but I understand your frustration. But I'm just
saying the point of the date, whether it was October 1 st, date of the letter or in November
24th, the result is the same.
Wolfe: I guess -- I guess when you talk about fairness, the Mayor said that no one -- no
one on staff knew. So, if no one on staff knew, I guess they think we are going to build
128 units and spend an extra million and a half dollars on a clubhouse and not complete
the development. We thought that if the change is going to happen -- it's, hey, the thing is
coming, it's going to happen, you might want to get your building permits in. It's going to
be a 40 percent increase. Just in the spirit of fairness and things is coming down the pike
here in another two months or three months, you might want to do something. And I'm
sure there is going to be other developers that are going to probably feel the same way
about it. There is a lot of money being spent and it's going to be a good thing for the
community, it's a good thing for us. It's just a surprise of not having I guess good
communication to save us the money. You're right, if the letter had come out October 1 st
and we would have got it on the 2nd, it's not a difference. But it's not a situation where we
are going to stop building apartments out there. We have got too much invested in the
ground. It's just very sad that it's going to cost us another 800 grand, stress over the
whole project in the increase in fees and we could have worked it out. We could have
come down and got those fees paid in advance and saved ourselves the money, but we
would like to understand I guess from staff, then, the next -- the next meeting is how --
how the increase was calculated and so we can make sure that we understand the
methodology and how it was done.
Nary: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if you don't mind and just
maybe to help clear up Mr. Wolfe, the fees did not increase on November 24th. The fees
for sewer were calculated and increased in 2014. So, the only thing that changed as of
October 1st of 2015 is the methodology in that ordinance that I read at the beginning as to
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how the fees are related to multi -family verses other types of buildings. So, the fees
haven't changed, they are the exact same fees that were imposed in 2014 for sewer and
the same with the rate for water. The methodology of how they were applied to your type
of project is all that changed and that was already in the ordinance. So, I know we are not
trying to get into every nuance of this, but you have said a number of times the fees
increased and, actually, the fees did not increase. The methodology of how they are
calculated in relation to a multi -family unit -- apartment complex was -- basically went to
the preferred method that was already listed in the ordinance. So, I know that probably is
more lawyer speak than most people want to listen to, but I just wanted to make clear, at
least for the record, the fees didn't change, the methodology changed.
Wolfe; That's clear. And I -- you're right, I don't understand lawyer speak very well either,
but I will -- I will say this: We need to understand the methodology of how it was applied
and I think we have a right and we need to understand to feel good about going forward.
Okay. Any other questions?
De Weerd: Only behind you. And, Dave, yes, you can come up after Graye.
Wolfe: Okay. Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Good evening.
Cooper: Good evening, Madam Mayor. My name is David Cooper. I am the accountant
for our project and a partner in this project of Silver Oaks. I reside at 7630 West Thunder
Mountain in Boise, Idaho.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cooper: Any other beginning?
De Weerd: No. That's -- that's it.
Cooper: Okay. I just wanted to point out -- I think there was -- I seemed to hear some
understanding or belief that we first inquired about fees a couple years ago and that there
hasn't been any other inquiry about fees and that staff hasn't been able to find e-mail or
whatever about that. I have been in regular contact with the -- with the city staff and we
actually paid fees to the city based on the fee schedule that's attached to that in April or
May of this year. So, the fee schedule -- the amount of fees that we actually paid that's in
that schedule, based on the other approach, was in 2015, not 2014, and we have been in
communication about other things with the city, not necessarily about what are the fees
going to be or have the fees changed, since the ones that we paid in May. So, I'm not --
we haven't had contact with the city to inquire about the fees since May. But we did -- we
did know what the fees were, because we wrote checks for the fees, which were the
assessment amounts that are there. So, I think I heard some comment about fees
changing or the calculation changing in 2014, but the fees that we paid were 2015. 1 just
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wanted to clear that up. So, it wasn't -- because we haven't had -- had no contact for two
years. We had contact in May.
De Weerd: So, Dave, did you also have contact about moving forward with phase two
with staff?
Cooper: I believe we have in the sense that we have had -- there is -- before the Council
there has been approval of the plat and things of that nature. That doesn't necessarily
mean that we were going forward, but if you look at that -- the document that's there in
front of you that's part of that package, it's dated December of 2014, which is right before
we paid the first fees in May of 2015. The whole 260 units were all part of that package
and what we have worked with the city to get approval of everything in our development
was related -- mostly centered around those 260 units. So, the 260 units -- it isn't, I don't
believe, a surprise to anybody in the city, and the whole timing of it is that we close the
loan on one and we are going to be closing the loan on the second as soon as possible.
So, that's -- I believe that's been our communication clearly, but if staff doesn't have that
recollection, then, they don't have that recollection, so --
Freckleton: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the certificate of zoning compliance
for the project was issued November 17th of '14. That CZC did cover phase one and
phase two, for a total of 260 units. Mr. Ruby is correct that they did pull their permits for
phase one this current year in 2015. So, I mean we did have the communication with
them with the phase one permits earlier in the year, but I just wanted to point out that the
CZC that was issued in '14 was for 260 units for phase one and two.
De Weerd: That made it clear as mud.
Cooper: We refer to phase one as the 128 units, but it's all part of the 260 and it's only a
phase one, because we had to break the package -- had to break it into two pieces to get
the financing approved. Financing is difficult. This project, since all of you have been
involved with this project for a long time with us and we appreciate the cooperation the city
has had. This has been a very long project and it's been a very difficult project and the
financing was the last piece where we -- it came to us that we -- in order for us to move
forward for our 260 units we would have to break it into two. So -- okay?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: When they actually got the plat, the 260 units was their phase one approved?
Freckleton: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, the plat is just now in the process. So, it
came after -- afterwards.
Bird: When they applied they had the 260 in their phase one?
Freckleton: That is not reflected in the plat.
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December 22, 2015
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Bird: No. No. But I mean when they applied. I'm sorry.
Freckleton: When they applied for their certificate of zoning compliance --
Bird: Yes.
Freckleton: -- they had 260 units. Correct.
Bird: And, then, they broke it -- that was their phase one as far we were concerned?
Freckleton: No.
Bird: Did they break that --
Freckleton: The certificate of zoning compliance specifically does say that it is for phase
one and two of Silver Oaks.
Bird: Thank you.
Cooper: Any other questions for me?
De Weerd: I don't think so, but thank you. We might ask later. Staff, anything further you
feel is important for Council? Okay. Council, do you believe you have all the information
you need? Is there further information we can gather for you before you look further at
this? I guess what -- what do you need?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I have been doing a countdown here, so tonight's my last meeting, so anything
say -- probably not going to be here. But we have got a lot of information. We have got
it at -- good and new information from Mr. Wolfe. We have some information from staff
and some information they provided this evening. We also have an acknowledgement I
think on our part that the applicant certainly wants to sit down with staff and staff is willing
to sit down with them and go over the calculations, so everybody is on the same plain if
you will. So, I think that's something that we need to direct staff to do and, hopefully, they
can do that. This is a terrible time of year to do stuff like this, but, hopefully, we can get it
done soon. Maybe in the next two weeks. And in terms of the relief that's been asked for,
I think we need to evaluate the information we have before us and make determination on
where you all going to go. That's my comment on it. We have got I think both sides here
to weigh in on it and I don't want to do it in 15 or five minutes, I would want some time to
go over this and that's my last bit of sage advice.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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December 22, 2015
Page 22 of 45
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I do have a question for the applicant and I don't know if it was already answered
or not, but my question is when were you planning on applying for a building permit
originally? Before you received that letter.
De Weerd: You have to come to the microphone. I can attempt to answer that through
my conversation is they wanted to secure the financing first and once that was secured
they were going to move forward with the building permits.
Cooper: This is actually the first apartment project that I have ever been involved in, so --
De Weerd: Welcome.
Cooper: -- the first phase -- yeah. The first part of this was a learning experience and so
my expectations were -- and our expectations were based on what happened in the first
applicant, which is that we would come down to the city, when we were closing the loan
and get the building permits at that point in time, but there was nothing -- there was
nothing that said we couldn't do -- I mean from our perspective nothing else would have
directed us not to do it earlier if we had an idea that that was a necessary thing to do. We
were kind of following directions from staff and following directions from the people who
do the financing, so -- but our expectations were based on the last loan that we did -- or
closed on the first part of this 260 units project was that we would have been writing the
checks about the time that we were doing the closing on the loan. We could have done it
-- we could have done it in October.
Milam: Madam Mayor? But when is that?
Cooper: That is about April 1.
Milam: Okay. Thank you.
Cooper: So, we were really on track to getting this done. It takes a long time, so -- okay.
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Cooper: Anything else?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Bird.
Bird: I need to -- I think we need to -- to consider it like Councilman Rountree has stated,
that we got a lot of facts and figures. Having staff sit down with the applicants, get the
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December 22, 2015
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methodology to them showing how we did this and we have got some -- a lot of stuff that
we can read and look through now and come back in a couple three weeks -- because I --
want to be fair to the applicant, but I also want to be fair to our rate users also.
De Weerd: And, Council, I think it does need to be determined if they were in the position
to be filing for the permit that needs to be a consideration. So, I know it's moving
mountains during the -- the holidays and looking at Larry through the microphone is -- but
I do think if the applicant -- if you could get together with staff and let them know when
those are -- what is the soonest they could be filed, so that the Council has that
information. If you were far enough along in the process that -- that can affect the
decision that is made and so you would need to share that information with staff when you
get together. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I was just going to comment the -- and I'm not sure
I remember this because of it happening in a Council meeting or because separate -- I
have been liaison to the Public Works Department and had conversations about this, but
my recollection is that -- that the reason that the Council directed the staff to make the
change that are being made is that we are actual going back to a previous method that we
used. This is not a new idea the way that -- the way to calculate it. We are going back to
a previous method that we used to use. What I'm not sure of is the timing of -- when we
said do this and I guess since the issue here is that -- that when we notified several
people, not just -- and not just this applicant.
De Weerd: Can you pull your microphone closer.
Zaremba: But when we sent out the notice we did make it retroactive and as I recall that
was at the direction of the Council, but where my question is going is just to reconfirm
some information that I think I had at that time and I don't remember if the whole Council
had and I think it might have been mentioned that we didn't think there was anything in the
pipeline that fit into that retroactive period --
Bird: That's right.
Zaremba: -- and I guess what my question is if -- to ask staff if we are going to bring this
back again on what would probably be January 5th. In the meantime would you review
and make sure that I'm correct that we did believe there was nothing in the pipeline and
has any other applicant come forward and say, gee, this affects me, because I would have
been in that period. That would be a piece of information that I would find helpful on
January 5th is is there anybody else that has come out and said, well, wait a minute, this
affects me.
De Weerd: I think you were correct in the retroactive and that there was nothing in the
pipeline, nor was there any knowledge that there was anything that would be in the
pipeline in the next 30 to 60 days and so that is a comfort and when I met with Mr. Wolfe
and the group I noted there is -- there is a lot that changed over this last year. We got our
NPDES permit, we got hit with regulatory requirements that costs up to 150 million dollars.
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
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Our -- our finances and our approach is growth pays its way and our existing residents
have demanded that and expect that and the Council has stayed true to that, that growth
does pay for itself and if -- if growth shifts that burden, then, it's the future growth that's
going to absorb the cost, because these are hard costs and so -- and I believe that is the
discussion that we have had in the evaluation, the methodology that was used for so
many years, it was in place for a reason and it was to make sure that that growth model
was averaged out and that the cost was -- was made by those creating the growth. So,
you were right in both of those, but I think staff can come back and better articulate it on
January 5th. Does that seem reasonable to -- for the applicant -- for staff to bring
information back that this Council can respond to the letter with? Okay. Okay. And, then,
this is a discussion about a letter we received. I don't think I need a specific motion to
continue this, but we will set it for our January 5th agenda.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, just for -- to summarize and some direction. Who is going to
raise their hand to be the lead from the staff to meet with these folks? Is it going to be
Tom or Mike or --
De Weerd: Mike or Warren or --
Bird: Bruce.
De Weerd: Bruce.
Rountree: Okay. All right.
De Weerd: So, Tom and Bruce? Okay. Okay. Perfect. And I imagine --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: -- that Mr. Wolfe, you can be the point person -- okay. Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I was going to throw in the comment -- it's been pointed out that two of us are
retiring and clearly Councilman Rountree will not be here on the 5th, but I just wanted to
add my replacement has a previous commitment and will not be available on the 5th, so I
will be attending the January 5th meeting as a Council member for at least the duration of
that meeting, so --
De Weerd: You are a sitting member until your next predecessor is sworn in and that will
be the following week, so --
Zaremba: Yeah. I just -- I wanted to point out there will be some continuity. There will
not be a new person sitting in my seat next week. Or on the 5th I mean, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Anything further from Council? Thank you. Merry Christmas.
B. Continued from December 15, 2015: Strategic Plan Update
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December 22, 2015
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De Weerd: Item No. 8-B is continued from our December 15th meeting on the strategic
plan.
Simison: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm going to -- I thought, as
I mentioned last time when you guys decided to put this off for a week, I was going to
have Tom come up and give the PowerPoint and figured it would be good for Councilman
Rountree and Councilman Zaremba to have that as their final meeting --
Milam: A midnight meeting.
Simison: But, instead, you will get me and I'm going to start off with a brief -- brief
PowerPoint on this and I'm going to vacate the podium and go sit down so that I can take
notes as needed. You do have other people in the room that can help answer any
questions, but I will go ahead and get started. In theory. So, just as a brief background,
you remember that these are the five community focus areas that were in the strategic
plan initially. We have strategic growth, economic vibrancy, responsive government, safe,
healthy, secure, arts, culture, recreation. This information was initially presented back in
April and the Council adopted the overarching objectives at the May 5th City Council
meeting. At that time there was direction to complete the objectives and bring the
information back to Council. This was presented by Tom Barry, just for those of you who
may remember that conversation, and ultimately the conversation will lead towards our
FY -17 budget discussion in some of these areas that relate to the high priority areas that
we will talk about in just a second. Just want to briefly go over -- because at the time we
gave you an example of what the objective worksheet might look like. There were some
modifications to it, just as we -- as the leadership team went through examining the
worksheets there was additional information that we felt needed to be included on it, but
up in the top part of the objective worksheet you have, you know, the objective and
corresponding goal. It lists who is the primary and supporting, as well as external
participant, the lead departments -- and lead departments were generally the ones who --
who completed these worksheets initially. It had the cost complete in various ranges. In
the cost to complete there was four different ranges of cost, notation had five ranges.
Estimated effort had four different ranges in term of hours. And, then, priority level of
high, medium and low. The bottom part of the worksheet was really the why are we doing
this, what are we going to do, and how are we going to measure success and I think that
was really kind of the -- the components that Council really wanted to focus in getting
those worksheets. So, as far as the objectives, as a reminder, the plan has 72 objectives,
each with its own worksheet. The departments created the worksheet and self identified
the priority and the time frames when they went through and did that themselves, the lead
department. After we got that subcommittee of Bruce, Mark, Tom, myself reviewed and
updated based upon the necessity to complete an objective or task based upon its overall
prioritization, the strategic plan or need to finish by a date specific. We looked at prior
factors, including the impact, the criticality, the urgency, opportunity, prerequisites,
interdependency, management, leadership prerogative. We took that information back to
the director for their discussion and feedback, especially on the ones where we had made
changes to their original priority level or other stuff and at that point in time that's the
information that you ultimately got presented to you following that feedback. So, I want to
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focus my comments, at least primarily on the 18 high priority objectives in this plan and I
really say that these are, at least from our perspective, the initial mission critical
components to which could impact changes to the rest of the plan once many of these
things are adopted. You know, when we talk about level of service and when you go
through that process, that could have cascading impacts down throughout the rest of the
plan. So, that's really where we see the -- the real meat of this plan -- to start the plan.
Here is just a quick snapshot of those objectives and you can see they are broken down
by the departments, who are identified as the lead. Community Development, the Mayor's
Office, are the primary leads on most of them. We also have Finance and Human
Resources as leads in the high growth areas. Or high priority areas. Relating to those, in
the Mayor's Office generally these objectives involve all the departments in order for them
to be completed. The Mayor's Office is listed, because you have to have a lead, but they
are really -- many of them are all hands on deck in order to make them succeed, because
they are citywide components and as well not just the Mayor's Office, many of these will
have some additional resources that might be needed to complete them as well. For the
items in the high priority arena is community development. Many of these are ongoing
economic development issues that are really issues or projects which were already taking
place that are under -- underway that we are not going to stop doing at this point in time,
such as downtown performing arts, urban renewal, and business attraction. For Finance
they will be really looking at a line in the budget to service priorities and providing
information and growth and the cost of these services. Again, kind of comes after -- if you
look at some of the priorities of government components, but that's really -- and that's for a
couple, three or four years to get that stuff lined up and in Human Resources, the items
that were listed here, we feel like the employees and what retains them and keeps them
and how they are treated were really stuff that we need to stay on top of and especially
with still all the changes in healthcare that are impacting not just cities, but businesses
alike. You got to keep an eye on those items and, unfortunately, will be under new
leadership for that discussion, so -- but I know it still rated a high priority for the city,
because it's a large portion of the budget and you have to stay focused on those type of
things. We have kind of an overarching of the high priority areas. Just want to real
quickly give you at least my take on the medium objective and I think you need the
medium priority plan or creating plan for the future. This would include items like
rezoning, improving access to government development, safety and health providers for
the community, it's looking at what we are doing, how are we doing it, how can we
improve it, where is it going to go from here. And, then, on the lowest priority. I would say
these are typically functions which we should be engaged in, but are not the primary
functions of city -- you know, they really stretch us as a service provider to try to take us to
that next level if appropriate. This could include doing stuff like green building design,
creating signature events, looking at social -economic needs of the community beyond
what we currently are doing. So, with that brief overview, which -- you know, now I'm
going to open this up for any comment and discussion and as I mentioned we have four
members of the subcommittee that really kind of focused on this, as well as a few of the
directors in the room, Jaycee and Bill, Steve over here, so you have got at least seven of
the nine people who were really involved, but we were told to bring this back to Council --
or bring these objectives back to you for consideration and conversations with Council
President Rountree, his recommendation was to have this discussion today. It will -- it
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would have been last week and, then, bring back this week for adoption with any changes.
But, really, from here, you know, we have the discussion. I think that the directors are
wanting your buy -in, your input and your involvement to say -- especially the high priority
items, these are what we want and what we need to be focused on and that you will see
some of these items and budget amendments for discussion as part of the FY -17 budget
as necessary and with that I will go ahead and go sit down and open it up for any
discussions or comments. Or I will take any questions first before I go sit down. But if I
need to take notes I want to go sit down.
De Weerd: Council, any questions? I think it is important to note when we brought this
with all the different -- I think you now get an idea and I kind of go back to Councilman
Bird's statement of the thickness of the strategic plan. When we brought it for initial
consideration we said this is where the work really begins. It's flushing it out, putting the
details to it and we wanted to make sure that each of those lines was something that you
supported. Now maybe reading the meat you have additional questions, but a lot of time
-- and I would like to thank all of our departments and the leads that really took each of
those lines and now put context to them for all the work, because it was -- it was great.
The high priority items certainly need real debate and discussion, because those are very
time consuming. The three key ones in the discussions that we have had as a team are in
priorities in government and levels of service and in our priority based budgeting and
those are all huge in setting budgetary considerations in building -- if the strategic plan is
really going to bring us to the next level there -- there is a cultural change, it's building key
performance measures and with those key performance measures you will see that we
are moving the needle. You will also see performance by department and you will see an
opportunity to talk about efficiencies where we can prioritize those programs that are
moving the needle and maybe looking at programs that have a shelf life and this is -- this
is going to be a big, big endeavor. So, with that I will open this up to any questions and
discussion.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I really don't have a discussion, because I haven't had time to read through it
enough to do it, but I do want to thank Robert for getting these out to us in a timely
manner and especially the priority one that come later. I appreciate all the hard work that
everybody has done and as a Council we need to go through this and really understand it
and I hope our two new members got copies of this -- or got it e-mailed to them, because
they are going to be living under this, whatever we adopt, so I just appreciate all the hard
work that's went into this.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
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Rountree: I did what I usually do. I have some questions and a few suggestions. Just
looking at it overall, you have a reasonable distribution of high to low and you really have
a concentration of medium area for -- of the goals, but, you know, the high and low ones
kind of balance out. The distribution of lead is pretty heavy weighted on Community
Development and if there is a way you could get that distributed a little better I think it
would be less of an impact on Community Development folks having to take leads on
multiple of these things. Granted, the high priorities are pretty much balanced between
Community Development and the Mayor's Office, with a number of high priorities that both
are going to be dealing with. The Mayor's office doesn't have in itself a lot of staff, but she
gets to utilize all you guys and all you guys only get to use yours. So, think about -- think
about the staffing. Think about the impact on staffing. Think about how busy we are with
the everyday business of the city and how you can work toward implementing these.
That's just overall observation of what I see. Specifics. Item 2-A-1. It seems to me that --
know where it's going, but I think human resources could provide some input on that in
terms of knowing what the job markets are and knowing what the educational levels are --
it ought to have an X there. Next one down 5-A-1 about fostering development of mixed
use single use facilities for performing arts. That's a high priority, yet 5-C-1 to look at the
long term mechanism for financing and getting that done is a low priority. I can't make
that work, but if it works for you all that's fine. I just point that out. I'm not saying change
this stuff, just from looking at it that didn't make sense to me. A question. The
enumeration like 3-E-4, it seems to me that -- and the one that precedes that is 3-E-2,
that's the right sequence. Was that on purpose? If it was you did it just right. If it wasn't
you did it just right. I don't know if that's reflected through the rest of this in the thought
process. Moving on down the first page. 1-A-3, I don't know what reform the Meridian
Development Corporation means. I have an idea of what the intent is. But I think we
need to be a little more specific if it's going to be a goal. That could mean change the
membership. It could mean changing a whole lot of things. It could be just replacing a
few people . On 3-E-1 about establishing clear defined roles and responsibility for city
leadership and elected officials, quite honestly, the legislature has done a specific job of
elected officials and if you try to mess with that I think you don't want to lose sight of what
it is you were elected to do and what statute says you are to do. So, don't forget that. On
1-C-3, it's one thing to identify it, but is that exercise in vain, because how do you keep it?
You identify a culture and you identify education, that sort of thing, but how do you keep it
in the dynamics of being driven by development. That's just a question you're probably
going to have to answer when you do that. I think it's -- I think it's a legitimate goal, but to
me that popped into my mind, well, that's great, but how do you do it. 1-B-2, identify
priority growth and incentivize growth and development. In my opinion tools to incentivize
growth and development ought to be a separate goal. That's a -- that's a big chunk and
think we would probably be wise to look at that as a goal to emphasize. I'm running out of
steam. The second to the last page, 3-E-5, is certainly a -- it's a low rating, low priority
and I didn't pick this up with any of the goals that one seems to me like it's written in such
a way as you want to make that happen by using word the benefit. It should just read
evaluate or evaluation of district and council seats. You shouldn't really show favoritism
or, you know -- we have looked at it once and it didn't look too good, so maybe you don't
even want to do it. I don't know. Those were some flashes I had when I went through this
with not a great amount of detail, but I did run some percentages. It looks like Community
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Development has 32 percent of the goals as lead. The Mayor's Office comes in at 25
percent and it goes all the way down to zero. Mike, I think you guys need to step up and
take the lead on some of these goals or find some goals for the police department that
you ought to work on.
De Weerd: We will just add Community Development with police.
Rountree: But, you know, I think it's good work, it's a great exercise, but let's try to make it
something other than an exercise. Pick those things that really and truly are priorities and
spend the resources that you need to make them work.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Some questions and some comments. I will kind of run them in stereo. The
first question I could really use the clarification on is whom or whom or what was the
matrix to determine a high from a medium from a low? Because I think that there is some
things in here that I would maybe say is more of a higher priority, there is things that are
high priority that I would say is more medium. Some more clarification on that would be
great. Robert, I appreciate your comments about this resulting in some -- some budget
enhancements in 2017, some -- a follow up and feedback on -- with a lot of those goals
that start at the first of the year, what were you using to pay for those? Moreover, what --
if we are using some current staffing resources what are we not having staff worry about,
because I haven't had an employee yet say they are looking for more stuff to do. So, I'm
curious as to kind of where we are aligning on those.
Simison: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, if I could reply at least to your two
questions.
Cavener: Sure.
Simison: We generally use the January 1st, 2016, start date regardless of whether or
not we have -- we felt like we had the staff resources in place to do anything or the time,
just from the standpoint that might be the date we start putting together budget
enhancements --
Cavener: Okay.
Simison: -- to do the work next year or reevaluate. But it was a starting date and typically
the only ones that we didn't put that date, if it was clear another item had to be done first,
then, we moved that to the end of the completion of the other one. But it was more of a
standard start the plan January 1, because that's when we will start diving in, assuming
Council says do the work, well, then, we are going to start doing the work. As to your
other question about the factors that we looked at -- and, yes, I mean, as I stated, some of
the department felt like some of the items in here were a higher priority. We actually
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moved them down, because we felt like generally the overall criticality of getting our levels
of service was more important than doing some of the other things, but we looked at as a
group the criticality, the urgency, the opportunity, you know, where are we currently in
looking at these things or what -- what the current situation is. Is there interdependencies
to other things that need to happen first and, then, management leadership prerogative
and I think that -- that's the undefined one in terms of, you know, if someone says that's
more important than everything else, then, that one got moved up, because that's what
was said to do. So, that was some of the criteria that was used in looking at these.
Cavener: Follow up, Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Cavener: Robert, then, is it more than the -- the strategic committee that is -- formed
these or was it the group as a whole that ultimately determined what was high and what
was a medium and what was a low?
Simison: Madam Mayor, Councilman Cavener, it was both. I mean we -- for some of
these items -- and the Mayor's Office was a great example. Most of those ones that are in
the Mayor's Office we as the leadership, the directors, the Mayor, myself, we worked on
those together in the director meetings and off-site meetings, because we felt like those
were the highest priority things that needed to be taken care of in the plan. So, we did
those worksheets together. In some of the other ones, like I say, they weren't just -- it
wasn't -- we felt they wouldn't be looked at and say we just think that that is something
that -- it needs to occur first, rather than doing some of these other items, but -- and some
of the other ones are ones that are already being done. You know, you look at those six
items in Community Development, they are ongoing and so we didn't see the point in
making those low -- medium or low priority if we are actively working on them right now.
So, I think that that's -- if you kind of break it down from that standpoint I think that there
are six economic development items that are high at six of the 18. But they are having to
really -- we are doing that. We are not going to stop doing it. And the other 12 are -- you
really start getting into that larger picture items.
Cavener: Okay. Robert, your point about the start dates being a placeholder probably
addresses the bulk of my other questions. Just checking dates. Madam Mayor, maybe
one follow up. And this is for Robert or for anyone from the group that maybe wants to
chime in. My question is really related to 1.A.2 and 1.A.3. So, looking at the -- the
Mayor's office being the lead in one, Community Development being the lead on the other,
is the intent of those to happen in stereo or is the intent that one of those happens first
and, then, my follow up question would be is which of those two is priority 1-A versus 1-B?
Simison: Madam Mayor and Councilman Cavener, I would argue that item 1-A-2 is
ongoing in process as we speak and so that would be 1-A-1, part one. I think you will see
something on that in the next two months. The other item I would say is not as high if you
want them rated in those contexts. I can't say that anything has begun on that per se.
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Cavener: Great. A couple comments, then, Madam Mayor? To Councilman Bird and
Councilman Rountree, both of their points, I appreciate the work that's went into this I look
at it like a buffet, back to logic. There is some things here that I'm really excited to go try,
there is some things that I really am excited to -- to explore. There is some things that I
don't have an appetite for. Nevertheless, I'm excited to go to the buffet, so I appreciate
the work behind it and I look forward to seeing the -- the budget amendments that come
forth with it. I think it's important, at least from my perspective, that my support of this plan
as a whole does not necessarily indicate support of any specific strategic goal, but I
appreciate the willingness of the departments and the team to explore them each
individually.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Hold on. I'm trying to grasp what that just said. What that just said.
What Mr. Cavener just said. That -- I think that each person that worked on all of these
different sheets that you have feel that this is the Council, the Mayor, the directors' plan
and that as it moves forward they are executing on the city's plan in moving forward
towards that vision of achieving our vision and mission. We can't be halfway pregnant.
We are either pregnant or we are not. We are either doing this strategic plan or we are
not. Because it's -- it's very difficult to execute on the strategic plan that we don't know
what you agree with and what you don't. If you don't agree with it, it should not be on
here. So, we need clear direction and we need to make sure that we are all a team here
and it's not Tammy's plan, it's not Charlie and David's, because they are leaving, but it's
your plan, it's the senior management team's plan and it is every employee in the city's
plan. So, what you have concern or you don't have an appetite for, but you're wanting to
see, I don't know, what it's made of, we will bring you the ingredients, but we need to
make sure that we are all on the same page, because this is work. This is going to be
work. It's going to be a focus. It's going to take a lot of resources. We can't sit here and
wonder if we start going down -- down a road that it's a lot of energy for something no one
agrees with.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, if I can respond?
De Weerd: Yes. Please. Because that was a question.
Cavener: That's fair. There wasn't a question, but I will provide some comment and some
context there. Feedback that I received from staff when this plan was first proposed was
that they were putting forth concepts and that the next step was to bring this process to us
for some feedback. In further communication with staff the response has been that,
again, there will be other opportunity to discuss each of these at an individual level when
they would come forward with a budget amendment. To your point, this is the city's plan.
I am one of six and I think that we have seen time and time again you ask six of the same
question you're going to get 12 different answers. So, I think that to expect four of us
today and two new members when these come forth as individual budget amendments to
support one hundred percent of everything, in my opinion will most likely not happen.
support the work of putting forth the strategic plan. I don't support every single element
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December 22, 2015
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within the plan and if tonight is the night that we wanted to go through these line by line to
discussion the merits of those and the staff putting time, energy, and resources into it, I'm
prepared to do that. However, I don't think that was the intent or the goal of tonight's
meeting. So, to your point I do understand and recognize that this is not just the Mayor's
plan and it's just not the current or the future council's plan, but this is our city's plan and
I'm happy to discuss each of these items on their own individual merits, but to say that I as
an individual support every element in here isn't accurate and there are -- there are some
particular priorities -- more in the medium to low that I don't necessarily think -- that's
something we need to explore or as replicating a service that we are already currently
doing.
De Weerd: Good. Because we want that conversation and, yes, we don't want it tonight.
But I do want you to start having that conversation with the leads, because they are the
ones that developed those sheets and to -- to seek to understand and so when we bring
this back for a conversation -- because as I think Councilman Rountree pointed out, there
is going to be a lot of work in moving this forward and we want to make sure that -- and I
was pleased to hear that your questions reside less in the high priorities and more in the
medium to low. But when this body votes, we move forward and, then, we all agree,
whether we agreed or not. When the six of you vote we now have our direction.
Cavener: Absolutely.
De Weerd: Okay. So, I don't mind taking this slowly, because it's mammoth, but we do
need a decision so we do know what we are going to focus on and we do look forward to
the conversation about the ingredients. So, you can either continue to not have an
appetite for it or you gain an appetite for it, using your analogy. So, thank you for that
further explanation. I appreciate it.
Simison: Madam Mayor, if I could also add -- and, Bruce, if you want to go to those last
sheets. When Tom presented this -- and you can see here on this chart the end, you
know, each year the idea is to bring this plan back to Council to ask these very questions
and I think that that's really prudent as you get into the medium and the lower items. It's
going to alter. You're going to -- the leadership team or the directors are going to be
bringing back stuff to you that will probably fall off the plan or maybe add stuff in. I think
especially if you look at something in the medium and low years and you look at the date
of anticipated start time -- you know, so long as you're having the conversation with
people before that, it -- I think that that's appropriate and you can modify and change and
that's what my goal would be is next year, one year when you come back for the annual
progress report to review and refine the strategic plan, that that's when we are going to
really start seeing, okay, what's going to come out, what's going to drop off and make
those changes. So, just to let you know. As we have had that conversation, this is only
the first conversation.
De Weerd: Yeah. And I'd rather have a parking lot, too, for those items that we don't
think we agree with at this point that may make sense after we have done a priorities in
government and, you know, level of service, then, you know that you definitely -- that's not
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something to go to or maybe it even changes in our priority. It's going to be a very fluid
plan that -- this is our best guess at this point and -- but the conversation is almost more
important at this point to make sure we start focusing on the things that are most
important to -- to help figure out the rest of the plan even.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question, then, for Robert. Robert, then, is it the goal to -- really the next time
that we discuss this would be a year from now at a December update, outside of specific
budgetary discussions?
Simison: Well, I think based upon what was presented I would think that you would -- you
would come back -- you would see potential amendments to the objectives, come back in
a year from now, either we are not going to be doing those -- these items anymore,
because we find them not to be necessary or things that we -- have been added in or
conversations throughout the year. That's what I believe was the plan, but I'm going to
follow what was in the strategic plan document adopted on May 5th with this chart. So, I'd
like to follow things that have been laid out.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I, too, would chime in with gratefulness for all the
work that is going into this. I think this is the right time to be doing this. In my thinking
ahead of the strategic plan, I frame it in reference to the potential for the city to have
350,000 citizens and how we are going to be ready for that. I see many steps in here that
-- that help us work towards that. I look at the prioritization schedule and I don't see
anything with a date later than 2020. So, I guess my instinct is to say this is terribly
ambitious. There is an awful lot here. I understand and agree with that this is actually
going to be an evolving thing and some of these things as you start into them you will say,
well, this might be better if it were something slightly different. You don't know that until
you start doing it. But while I'm happy to see the intent to have all of this happen, my
expectation is that it's probably going to be a little longer time frame. There is an awful lot
here and I'm a strong supporter of continuous quality improvement, which I think much of
this addresses. I think it's the right thing to do. I think this is the right time to do it. The
Mayor's comment that you can't be half pregnant reminds me of something. In 1984 when
my brother and I were putting the transportation together for the Olympics in Los Angeles,
that's a massive amount of work and there is an actual deadline, you can't have
something ready a week later than the Olympics, you have got to have it ready and it
became very common to say when somebody would come up with big project: You can't
make a baby in one month by getting nine women pregnant.
Cavener: Now, there is a quote.
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Zaremba: A little bit crude. I'm sorry. But the point is that some things have to happen in
a certain sequence and in a certain time and I see this as a massive effort. I'm not sure
that the pressure to get it all done by 2020 is going to workout and I don't see any reason
why it necessarily has to be. I mean, as I say, I visualize what do we need to be doing to
get to 350,000 citizens. That's not going to happen before 2020 either. So, to me the
prioritization is what has to happen first and I'm glad that thinking is being done, but I don't
have any problem believing that this is going to evolve.
Simison: Madam Mayor --
De Weerd: I think I agree with what you just said, to a certain degree.
Simison: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, if I could just -- the plan only goes to
2020, so that's why the dates only go to that point in time. I think that what we have heard
from Mark and Tom, the two departments with experience in strategic plans, we know that
this is more ambitious and we are probably not going to get there. We don't -- I wouldn't
want to hamper how much we can get through, but we felt if it wasn't on the paper and we
didn't take a look at it and we didn't stretch, then, we wouldn't know where we could go or
where we couldn't go and -- but the reality that this entire plan gets done by 2020 1 think
that we all agree is not likely.
De Weerd: I think what's going to be important is the touch backs with Council and the
team and keeping this as a fluid document and as -- as something that doesn't go on the
shelf and bringing back those progress reports and having discussions about what we
learn along the way is going to be just as important as well.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, Charlie covered already most of my questions. I just had a one kind of more
specific on -- and I don't know if it's a question or a comment, but 3-B-4, an employee
engagement program, if -- we are working on creating -- on compensation and retention.
It seems that should be along -- up in a high priority with those, too. In my opinion that is
a retention tool and if we want to focus on employee retention, then, engagement certainly
should be a part of that. I think that's it.
De Weerd: So, next steps. Can we ask Council to identify those -- those areas that you
would -- personally, I don't mind that items fall off of this and go into a parking lot area for
consideration, but I -- I do ask that you submit your questions, comments, or concerns, so
we can wrap that into the items that you bring up and we will pull the minutes to make
sure that we have captured everything that was discussed here tonight. But at some point
we would like action from Council, knowing it is a fluid document, but to start moving
forward in putting resources -- people's time into the execution.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: If I may suggest something. Robert, I'm sure he offered this to all the other Council
people, too, to get back to him in what concerns we had or anything and I did not have
time to go through it thoroughly enough to do that, but what -- if we could have until the
12th of January, which is our workshop. Not get back -- let's stay the 8th of January for all
the Council people and I will make sure that Ty is notified of this also. To get any
concerns or comments you have and I would say let's -- if you don't mind, Robert, can we
send them to you -- e-mail them to you or get them to you personally? And preferably in
writing and, then, we can -- I think we can process this a little from there on and see what
route we want to go at that point, seeing what comments we would get back at that time.
If that is okay with the rest of the Council I would certainly suggest that we do it that way.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Question for Robert. For our two incoming Council members, I assume they
have been -- had any type of a -- okay. I'm seeing heads -- okay. Saying no. I would --
Bird: We will get that to them.
Cavener: Yeah. That they be given an opportunity to sit down with you and be brought
up to date as to the background of the process, so that they feel that they are informed to
be able to make a decision one way or another and provide any comment to you before
then as well. Sooner, rather than later would be my hope. But if we feel that they can be
brought up to date by the 12th, I'm okay with that. I'd prefer to go later, but I also
recognize the workshop is a great opportunity for us to discuss this.
De Weerd: Okay. All right. Are you going to comment or not or -- I didn't know that they
didn't get this. So, we will make sure that they -- they get the sheets and the summary
page.
Simison: Madam Mayor, Councilman, the goal was to have this wrapped up by the end of
this Council term. That was the original intention and that's why we have been working
towards that goal for that -- you know, six months ago that was the intention when we
came back, so we would bring this back to you before the end of this time. If we want to
extend it that's fine. The only thing I would ask for -- I would ask -- if you have things that
you want to change, that that's what -- you know, the general comments are good, but if
you -- it would be really helpful if there is very specific comments about this item should
come off, I don't like this objective -- or this tactic or I'm concerned about these things,
rather than general comments. So, that would be really helpful as you get your comments
in. Keep very specific changes you'd like to see, so I can try to articulate six individuals'
comments or four individuals' comments, rather than trying to parse in that formation,
so--
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 36 of 45
De Weerd: By having it on January 12th, however, it -- with Councilman Zaremba being
there, it does -- it could fall under old business and work on that. So, I know we will have
one of the Council members already sworn in, but this is a big document.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: And I would -- I would suggest that Councilman Rountree, if he has time between
now and going to sunny Hawaii, he put his -- enter his thoughts in to Robert also, because
he's very experienced and along this deal and the same with Councilman Zaremba, to do
the same thing, so -- but I also believe that we need to have the new -- new ones
involved, too, because they have got to live under it and adhere to it.
Borton: Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I'm hopeful that that time frame works. I -- I don't see how it does. Not to be the
wet blanket, but one of the challenges is the Council has never participated in this level of
it by design, but the challenge is if we show up and we give a bunch a great input and
details of what to drop off and include, we will be here on the 12th, review those, then, the
idea would be that we would, then, amend it accordingly, come up to some consensus on
what might fall off, what would change, bring it back, and the Council would develop and
truly own the plan. That's the missing element. So, to be able to act on the 12th, what's
the point of exchanging information?
Simison: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, I would agree. If you get me your
information on the 12th we are -- there is -- you won't take any action on the 12th and
Councilman Zaremba may as well not show up. It's going to be a week or two weeks after
that. So, you either got to move up your time table for submitting your comments to say
January 1, so that they can be reviewed, implement a process, and the document
redistributed to you all to review prior to the 12th or we know that it's not going to be fully
vetted before a few weeks after that and I would just -- if we are going to engage in new
Council, I think you got to push this back beyond that. I mean I'm not going to speak for
Councilman Roberts on, but I know she's going to be indisposed for a brief -- doing other
things at the start of the year, which is why she can't be here. So, just getting her
attention even on this at the appropriate time could be difficult if you're shooting for the
12th for action, to include them having a voting on it with the holidays and everything else.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 37 of 45
Bird: I think in my comments was to get it to the 8th and, then, we would discuss it the
12th. I didn't say we would enact upon it. I think that the new people -- I believe the two
new people need to have some input in this, too, because they have got four years to
work on this and live with it.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, I think when we went through this in -- last May the idea was to have
it adopted by the end of the year, knowing that a new Council is drinking out of a fire hose
at this point. They will start working with and living with the plan as adopted, but as you
see the -- the touch points, as they start getting introduced into it, they are going to start
better understanding it. They are going to read this document and say I don't know even
where to begin to offer feedback. The goal was to get it in place and have these touch
points to reevaluate and I think that's a fairer approach to new Council people coming in is
to get their feet under them and then -- so, they will even know what to add to the
discussion about the strategic plan. My thoughts.
Bird: Well, I don't -- Madam Mayor, I'm sorry. I don't -- I don't disagree with that at all, but
I also think that we -- I recall getting these maybe -- help me, Robert. Was it last week?
Simison: They were first e-mailed out in like December 4th.
De Weerd: No, the first week --
Bird: No. I'd have to go back on my e-mail and --
Simison: The first week in December when they were first e-mailed --
Bird: And, then, you know, getting it -- and, then, the priority list just come out this week.
Monday?
Simison: Last week. But that was requested information I sent out.
Bird: I don't know. I -- I realize back in May we -- we had the thing that said we would get
it adopted, but it's -- and I apologize if we got it that early. I didn't think I got it that early.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Is this something we are going to review every six months and just as needed? Is
that -- or a year? I thought you said May.
Simison: Well, Madam Council, Council Woman Milam, it's -- you will see stuff that will
come through the budget process, so -- about that time frame. But as far as -- it would
annually come back to the City Council for adjustments. So, you probably wouldn't see it
until you adopted it in January -- in January of '17 would be the next time. I don't -- I
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 38 of 45
imagine there will be discussions about certain items throughout the year with Council,
either formally or informally, but officially once a year is what the plan is.
Milam: But things can change between now and next year; right? Or is this -- I mean this
is -- if we adopt everything that happens -- is written in stone, if it starts on the first of the
year and we adopt this, there is nothing we can do about it?
De Weerd: Oh, absolutely.
Milam: What was your comment? What was your answer?
Bird: Oh. Madam Mayor, we -- we will have -- we will have final say through the
budgetary items. Now, if it -- if we pass something in the budget that already accounts for
it, then, we -- we are not going to. But other than that we will have something to -- we will
have some counter check balances.
Milam: Madam Mayor? So, I guess my -- my point was really to get to -- if we are -- there
is a possibility that changes will happen and until we are actually working this and using it,
none of us know -- we haven't actually used this. Unless there is something specific that's
in the high priorities that's going to start like right away that somebody has a problem with,
I don't have a problem approving it and working with it as we go. I think it's going to be
one of those things that we are going to have to, obviously, work with and change and
adapt as -- as the world turns.
De Weerd: It is seeming like a soap opera and that's exactly what it will be. As we
approach the -- the budget -- I don't see any reason why having -- adopt this and look at it
again before we enter into the budget session, just to -- to touch base. Go on the annual
review. But this is new and I -- I think in all of our comfort levels that seems very doable.
We need to make sure we are on the same page.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would suggest two things. If -- if you're planning on an annual review, I might
suggest timing that review to be in February or March, since it will have some impact on
the budget that you will start talking about a month or two later. The other thing is if -- if
the current sequence is that we are going to try and get comments into Robert and, then,
he's going to assimilate all of those and, then, we are going to have it -- whether I'm here
or not, there is going to be a more thorough discussion on January 12th, I would suggest
that at that workshop that the committee that has been working on this be there. They
have already thought through a lot of this stuff and the comments that we provide I think it
would be useful to have their response to say, okay, here is how we got there, to what
they have proposed in what we already have, so that the thorough discussion includes the
discussion they have already had and I'm just wondering if that's possible, have the
committee be part of that workshop.
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 39 of 45
Simison: Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, they are in the room right now, so, yes,
they will be present. You know, the subcommittee and the directors is really the people
that are there. So, we are only missing two directors from our discussion tonight and if we
did it at a workshop Stacy I'm sure could be brought in. But, unfortunately, we won't have
a human resources person to speak to some of those components. At least what she was
thinking, because they were really driven by Patty.
De Weerd: So, we can have -- and Crystal can get the background behind it, so we
certainly can have that discussion. The reason it is in January is because it would be prior
to the beginning of the budget work, which begins in February.
Zaremba: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. So, I guess we would ask you to get your comments to Robert by the
end of the year, so we can get that out to you shortly thereafter and put it on the January
12th workshop for old business before the new Council member takes the seat. And in
the interim to meet with Ty and Anne to go over how we got to where we are tonight and
get the document to them. Because, indeed, it will be something they inherit. Anything
further --
Cavener: One thing, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: -- on this topic?
Cavener: Sure. Just to wrap this up.
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Madam Mayor. My apologies to staff and to you, Madam Mayor.
misunderstood what the goal of tonight's meeting was. Otherwise, I would have brought
this to staff's attention beforehand tonight. So, I apologize if I opened up a sour can of
soup, but --
De Weerd: It's all about soup.
Cavener: You can tell I'm hungry. I skipped dinner.
De Weerd: Do you want some of my candy?
Cavener: I ate all mine. I'm good. So, my apologies, Robert. I didn't mean to -- and to
staff who have worked on this, I didn't do right by you, so I apologize.
C. Continued from December 15, 2015: Quarterly Dashboard
Discussion
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 40 of 45
De Weerd: Okay. Also continued from December 15th is our quarterly dashboard. This
came up as -- I guess in an attempt to try and get Council the kind of information you need
to be kept informed about the progress of our departments and where we are in delivering
service and some of what is in front of you you already get, but we don't know if the
information that we provide is in a friendly format and that you're getting it in the -- the
fashion that you would desire to get that information or if we can get it to you in a more
effective manner. So, the list that you have in your packet is -- is really a question in
regards to each of our departments talked to their liaisons on what kind of information you
would want on a quarterly dashboard to keep you informed of certain performance
measurements and what you get from your constituents and questions that helps you
provide information to be able to respond. So, this was intended as a -- kind of a starting
point and, of course, this can also evolve as you get the information you think, yeah, use it
or, no, I have never used it and if you don't use this for internal purposes, don't waste your
time developing the information, because we just want to get you the kind of information
that is helpful for you as you look at policies and make decisions, so --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: I would suggest that there is a very good guideline. I know I have been getting
monthly dashboard from the Community Development Department and I find that not only
interesting, but very helpful in that that's a good -- a good format and a good set of ideas.
De Weerd: Okay. And those were developed through feedback -- well, maybe from just a
couple of us, but we don't want to throw a bunch of information out there that takes a lot of
staff time to develop --
Zaremba: Yeah.
De Weerd: -- that you're not going to use and so our attempt with the list that is in front of
you is this is what we have heard from the Council liaisons and what we have also
provided or that we have had request for from other citizens, so we would just like your
feedback on does this fill the bill? Is it too much? Is it too little? I hope it's not too little,
because that's a pretty impressive list, if you ask me. But we want to make it relevant.
Cavener: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: To that point -- and I'm not sure if you're prepared or staff is prepared to
articulate the amount of staff hours that will go into creating something like this.
De Weerd: As I mentioned, some it is already --
Cavener: Correct.
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 41 of 45
De Weerd: -- used and some -- and it's used internally for -- for operational purposes.
Some of it I would imagine any of our directors that know what is in their list, is it going to
take additional resources to develop it. I think probably in most cases not.
Cavener: Great.
De Weerd: It's just compiling it all.
Cavener: Follow up, then, Madam Mayor. Thoughts as to why quarterly, as opposed to
monthly.
De Weerd: Because there is a lot of information and some of it is better annually, if you
really want to see progress. So, quarterly gives us also an opportunity to come and
actually present it, to talk about any anomalies or variances over-under that are important
to call to your attention and, frankly, to have departments stand in front of you to answer
questions that you might have as well.
Cavener: Sorry. One more, then. It sounds like though they are compiling this
information monthly, though, as opposed to quarterly?
De Weerd: They are compiling the information. Not necessarily monthly. It depends on
what we are talking about.
Cavener: Okay. Comment, then. Again, I may be the Ione voice on this --
De Weerd: And I will just also preface it in I ask for a lot of this data quarterly, because
that's when we do our dashboards and so we do budget, we do performance measures,
and we do dashboards.
Cavener: Okay. And I can only recall per the information that I receive, but I do receive it
monthly. I appreciate it monthly and, again, I may be the Ione one here, but I would like to
see this data monthly and if directors feel the need to provide some context on a quarterly
basis, I'm open to that as well. The only addition that I would -- I think would be
interesting to see -- and, again, I may be unique is this -- at our -- never mind. It's there.
We are good. I didn't see the part of page two, but sports teams and the enrollment. I
skipped over those.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, my two cents is that I would like to see regardless -- whether it's monthly or
quarterly, it is interesting information and I look at it as often as I get it sent to me as
comparative. So, whether it's a month -- a month to month or quarter to quarter, this
month -- the same quarter last year, that -- to me those are important statistics. I like to
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December 22, 2015
Page 42 of 45
see, you know, how -- not only what we did that quarter, that month, but how has that
changed, what was it like in the last period, so -- for each thing.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I -- quarterly -- you know, I like it -- I like it monthly with the ones that can and I don't
want Bruce to -- because I love -- I love his -- I absolutely love his Community
Development dashboard. It is very informative. It's very short. I feel that we get -- that
Finance keeps us informed every month with our printouts and stuff that we get and to
keep track against -- from year to year, I have always kept records -- in fact, I can
probably go home and dig up from about 2005 to 2009 or'11 all the fire quarterlies that we
were getting. I know the fire and -- I have never got a quarterly on police and I have
figured I didn't need one, but --
De Weerd: Why? Why would you want fire and not police? It blows my mind.
Bird: Well, there is -- they are different deals. But anyway -- I just never have got one on
police. We have got yearly on it -- on their calls.
De Weerd: We read the ValleyTimes and see a lot.
Bird: Yeah. And I get all that, so -- but I just think that I want something that tells the stuff
and we can keep -- if we will keep it we can compare monthly, quarterly, yearly or
whatever, you know, so I think -- I think we got a lot of stuff listed on here that I don't need.
De Weerd: Well, I -- what I will do is I -- we will look at what you already get on a monthly
basis and see if we can find a better method in getting it -- not individually given to you by
different departments, you know, at different times and -- unless you like that. But, again,
it's staff time to collect all the information and make sure you get it. But some of it you will
just not get monthly. It just takes too much staff resources to pull together, because we
don't -- some of that doesn't make sense to -- to pull together on a monthly basis and I will
bring you back a proposed example of what you will get and what kind of format. Bruce is
not going to change his. Bruce just might put his as part of Finance, so -- they can spend
their -- their paper to print it. Any other comments from Council?
Milam: We can do it e-mail. Yeah. We don't need it printed.
Cavener: You don't need to print it.
Item 9: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you. Okay. Anything under future meet topics?
Bird: I have none.
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 43 of 45
De Weerd: No?
Bird: The two old guys --
De Weerd: Two old guys?
Bird: Get us out of here.
Rountree: Well, with a parting shot with zero meetings left -- Council meetings. Still have
some next week. A moment to thank everybody that's here and everybody that's not here
that might be listening -- for their support. Staff, you do a great job and I know you will
keep doing it, because you certainly weren't doing it because of me, it's because you do a
good job and you have the work ethic to get the goals of the city accomplished. I thank
the Council. You have been great to support me the last two years and all of the past
years -- I'm only a couple years, a few more, David a few more, and Tammy and Keith a
lot more. But continue the professional approach, your heads above water, I will be
watching you.
De Weerd: You mean you will be watching us online?
Rountree: I might. Yeah. Just to see. You never know how things might -- might
change. It might be kind of entertaining. I have never done that, so -- but, again, thank
you all. I can't say it enough. It's been a tremendous 28 years of involvement, with a
short stint in between. I was still involved, but I was not elected nor assigned to anything.
But, anyway, I hope you the best for the new year and a Merry Christmas to all.
De Weerd: Thank you, Charlie. And I will just say that Charlie mentioned earlier in his
comments where -- when he was on City Council he was the instigator in creating the --
the parks commission. Certainly that's where I had an opportunity to first work with both
Charlie and Keith and the imprint that Mr. Rountree has had on this community in
numerous areas -- I mentioned transportation earlier, but I don't think there is anything in
this city that he hasn't had a profound impact on in bringing us to a level of efficiency and
service to our citizens that we provide today and I know many of the employees that are
sitting in here that knows the contributions run extremely deep. So, Charlie, you will be
missed, your years on Planning and Zoning really prepared us to say goodbye to you
today in good shape, with capacity, with a growth plan that continues to add new
amenities and services to our citizens and help create a community that our citizens are
very proud to call home and it hasn't always been that way. We were more of a suburb,
even though I threatened to do things to people that called us a suburb. We are a full
service city, because of the vision and the insight that you brought to the discussion and
your leadership. And, David, I just can't thank you enough for the involvement that --
when you were asked to serve on Planning and Zoning and I think you inserted yourself
very aggressively to get put on that. You had some ideas for the city and -- and your
ideas really helped develop solid policy and process and clarity, so that when people did
come in to develop in this community it wasn't arbitrary, they knew the expectations, they
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 44 of 45
had parameters and they brought quality developments for the most part in it and with
both of you we have learned so much along the way, as with never a pause to admit, oh,
that decision probably, in hindsight, could have been better. But we always did the best
we could with the decisions that -- or with the information that we had. But I know I sat
next to Charlie when you said: I'm being grumpy, aren't I? Yeah. But how cool is that?
So, you will be missed. We have appreciated your service to our citizens and we are
better because of it. So, thank you. Mr. Bird.
Bird: I just want to say that, you know, I have had the privilege of serving with a bunch of
nice gentlemen and women on this Council and I think you two are probably two of the
classiest and fairest people that have ever served here. The thing I have prided the City
of Meridian's Council, Mayor, everything, none of us have come on board with a personal
agenda. Everything we have done we have done for the benefit of the community -- the
whole community as the majority and you two have definitely been the leaders in that.
Charlie, I mean we have got a Fuller Park baseball field because of you and four or five
other guys that -- that took it upon themselves to get out there and develop that, so our
youth could have a place to play baseball and there is other stuff throughout the city that
your hands have been -- definitely touched and I just -- I just appreciate it and it's been a
real honor for me to serve with you guys and I just -- I can't thank you enough for your
service and I know you will be around to help us.
Rountree: Thank you, Keith.
Cavener: Madam Mayor, if I may? I will try not to get choked up. For me I ran for Council
for two reasons and that's to work with the two of you. You're the two reasons. David,
you are the art and, Charlie, you were the science of local government and together
collectively you have really made Meridian the gold standard for municipal governance
across the state and across the county and so thank you -- yes, for everything you have
done for our city, like many of you have said today, but for me personally I appreciate your
guidance and your apprenticeship and your counsel and I hope that just because you're
no longer on the Council -- City Council that I can still count on you for feedback and ideas
and questions.
Rountree: Can we complain?
Cavener: No. No complaints. So, personally thank you for -- for all that you have given
to me and for all that you have done for our community. Appreciate it.
Rountree: Madam Mayor, with that I move we adjourn.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Meridian City Council
December 22, 2015
Page 45 of 45
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 8:31 P.M.
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