HomeMy WebLinkAboutMay 18, 2004 C/C MinutesMeridian City Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
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Item 10: Public Hearing: AZ 04-006 Request for Annexation and Zoning of 3.06
acres from RUT to L-O zone for Southstone Subdivision by Pinnacle
Engineers, Inc. -northeast corner of South Eagle Road and East Girdner
Lane:
Item 11: Public Hearing: PP 04-008 Request for Preliminary Plat approval of 8
-- - commercial building lots on 3.06 acres in a proposed L-O zone for
Southstone Subdivision by Pinnacle Engineers, Inc. -northeast corner
of South Eagle Road and East Girdner Lane:
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Is the applicant here on Items 10 and 11? Okay. Well, I
will -- I will get to you in just a moment. Since the applicant is here tonight, I will go
ahead and start the Public Hearing, open Items 10 and 11, for Southstone Subdivision.
I'll start with staff comments.
Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, this is also kind of a five acre in-fill
property. As you can see, the white property that's in the midst of the Sutherland Farms
Subdivision, that was a planned unit development as it was approved. The property has
access onto Eagle Road currently. This portion of Eagle Road is not a highway, just to
remain you, it's just an arterial roadway. I wanted to provide you with the proposed
preliminary plat as it was originally approved for Sutherland Farms. The area -- the
parcel in question that we are talking about today is right here. As you will notice, the
collector road comes in just south of the subject property and, then, there is light office
to the north of it and light office to the east of it and light office to the south of it. I do
want to let you know that there is currently an application to replat or do a new
preliminary plat on this location here. It would make it all residential, instead of -- I'm
sorry. It goes over further. It goes all the way over to there. It would take out the office
component. The Southstone Subdivision -- getting back to that one. Sorry to confuse
the matter with Sutherland there, but the Southstone Subdivision is proposing eight
commercial building lots on just a little over three acres and they are proposing L-O
zoning. The lots range in size from about 6,600 square feet to close to an acre, 32,000
square feet, and these would accommodate a variety of building lots. They are primarily
shown as the building pads for the lots that goes out to the street. This application does
come forward with a recommendation for approval from the Planning and Zoning
Commission. The applicant's representative Dave McKinnon did testify in favor of the
application and no members of the public testified against it. The Commission did
modify one condition to require across-access agreement with the property to the north
and as I mentioned before, that's also proposed as office. That was their use exception
within the planned development. So, even though it's zoned R-4, it will be zone R-4, it is
proposed for light office uses. And the Commission also required that they move their
access a little bit further to the north, so that they could share an access and they have
done that. This is a modified preliminary plat. And staff had had a requirement for a
shared parking agreement. It was really just intended to be the cross-access
agreement. They just misused the term, so that was removed. And here is -- here is
where it gets tricky. When the Planning and Zoning Commission recommended
Meridian City Council Meeting
May 18, 2004
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approval, they anticipated that the consistency matrix for the Comprehensive Plan that
they had recommended approval of would be approved by City Council. Mr. Rountree --
or, Councilmember Rountree, I have to say that during the comp -- the consistency
matrix hearing you asked me a specific question, you said does this involve a policy
change and at the time I said no and there was one policy change and the policy
change was to allow light office for residential properties that were on arterial roads that
were less than three acres in size to request a light office zoning, recognizing that some
of these larger properties do buffer or can be used to buffer some residential properties
when they are on an arterial. So, that was the one -- not blatant -- or, let's see, not
specific -- I don't know what I want to say.
Rountree: Didn't quite tell the truth.
Powell: I didn't mean to do that. I got out here and the next day I thought, oh, no, now
what. So, I did want to apologize for that. The others were much clearer. But there are a
few things for us to consider and so I wanted to -- I can raise those with you. These
come out of the Comp Plan and this is just the general description of the Comp Plan,
that it's an official policy guide and that in a general way it reflects how the community
may be developed. There is also a section where it talks about how the land use map
depicts desired future land use categories and their location within the impact areas.
There is -- the depiction, even though we have it property by property, is conceptual.
And we have talked in the past about kind of pushing lines and nudging lines a little bit
when you have adjacent zoning that is light office. Well, in this case it's not the adjacent
zoning, because it was done through a PD and they didn't have -- at that time staff had
them keep the R-4 zoning. Lately, I have been trying to get the correct zoning on these
use exceptions, so that these issues aren't -- don't come up as often. So, here is a case
where this property, as Sutherland Farms stands right now, is completely surrounded by
L-0 uses or light office uses, so there are also two Comprehensive Plan policies that
kind of talk about this in a general way. Locate new community commercial areas on
arterials or collectors in such a way as to compliment with adjoining residential areas.
And, then, apply transitional zones to buffer commercial and residential uses, to allow
uses such as offices and other low intensity uses. So, again, these are -- there are a
couple things for us to consider -- for you to consider tonight that would allow this to go
through. If you don't feel comfortable with this, then, we probably need to add a
requirement -- or, I'm sorry, you may want to consider adding a requirement that they do
get a Comprehensive Plan map change. Those would seem to be the options. Staff is
still recommending this, it does make sense in this case, and I think that there is a little
bit there for you to consider tonight. With that, I will end staffs presentation.
De Weerd: Well, Anna, as I stated in the director's meeting, item number two is not a
problem with Council. Is it? The exercise we had with Espiron.
Powell: Oh, yeah.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
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May 18, 2004
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Wardle: Madam Mayor. One of the questions I have, Anna, is in the minutes from the
April 15th meeting, on page three, I believe it's Wendy Kirkpatrick; is that correct?
Powell: Yes, sir.
Wardle: States: I did want to point out with the consistency matrix not having been
approved, that this applicant is, essentially, following the matrix through the process. If
the matrix is not approved by Council, this application will lose its ability and it would
die, essentially. Is that -- I mean -- and, then, it goes on to say: So, just keep that in
mind, but the director's determination that it was okay for this to follow the matrix
through the process. So, I understand the exercise you just took us through about L-O
and all those things. My question is, since I'm reading this in the minutes of Planning
and Zoning, if we were to consider approving this project, we would be, essentially,
outside the bounds of our Comprehensive Plan; is that correct?
Powell: Not necessarily, I mean that's -- that's why I brought up these issues about the
guide and the -- that it's conceptual approval. We have talked about extending these.
Now, there is not aresident -- there is not an office component on the Comp Plan next
to it. It's a test for you all tonight to see how -- I suppose how we want to treat this. One
clear option is to just require them to do a map amendment. The other is to, I suppose,
revive the Comp Plan matrix or change the text to allow this sort of thing, leave the
matrix out, but do a modification to the text to recognize some of these properties. We
do -- most of the support we had going into the matrix was for light office uses on limited
size properties, three to five acres or less, where they are dealing with kind of
development coming in around them and not quite sure what to do with their property.
De Weerd: So, essentially, this is not -- it is not consistent with the Comp Plan
Powell: The Comprehensive Plan shows medium density residential.
De Weerd: So, that answer was --
Powell: Depending on how you want to interpret --
De Weerd: Boy, you are a politician.
Wardle: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Then, just afollow-up question, Anna. Since we didn't approve the matrix and
since this body works on precedent, were we to approve this project, essentially, we
would be setting a precedent for light office in residential uses.
Powell: Yes, sir.
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Wardle: Okay.
De Weerd: Not an answer to my question.
Nary: Cross-examination.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for staff? Okay. Would the applicant like to
come forward. Please raise your right hand.
Hobbs: I was in the swearing in earlier.
De Weerd: Oh, you were?
Hobbs: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, please, state your name and address.
Hobbs: My name is Chris Hobbs. I'm at 1412 South Bender in Boise.
De Weerd: Thank you
Hobbs: And I was asked to stand in for Dave McKinnon this evening. He had a conflict
with another meeting in -- for another city. He was going to try and get down here, but I
was asked to stand in if he couldn't make it. We agree with the stafFs recommendation
that the approved -- especially given that the properties to the north and the south are
zoned for commercial uses and also that access to the Eagle Road makes it an
excellent commercial property. It would be a better use than, really, as a residential
property and it just makes more sense, given the other uses next to it currently, that it
be commercial property. So, we ask for your recommendation. If you have any
questions I can try to answer them.
De Weerd: Do you have any questions, Council? Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: Madam Mayor, I guess just a -- more of a comment in the sense that I'm not
really commenting on the application or for the layout of the plat or any of those things,
we are really talking about a policy change and so from the applicant's point of view my
comments are more directed towards the general policy, rather than this specific
individual project.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any further questions? Thank you. We are in a dilemma
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
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May 18, 2004
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Nary: Following up on Council Member Wardle's cross-examination, it appears to me,
Anna, that what we have got is you have found a couple of policies that might be -- fit to
approve the project. I think what we are all either hearing or saying or what was even
discussed at Planning and Zoning was that it makes sense to allow, essentially, a mixed
use type of project along an arterial like this, having both the residential and these buffer
zones and all those things, but we just don't have, really, language to -- I'm just afraid
that it sounds like we could be approving something that we might be sorry for later,
because the precedent that we would be setting would be something we would be
uncomfortable for and, as we heard in the prior testimony, people really pay attention to
us and what we do once and how we don't do it again or that we be consistent and
that's, I guess, what my fear is is although I think those policies are pretty good, it
seems like a stretch and I guess I don't know another --abetter way to say that. It
seems like a little bit of a stretch and there is better ways to accomplish this project,
whether it's through a text change -- I recognize a map change is much more
complicated, but it seems like a text change that's a little bit better with a subsequent
map change would make more sense. But, you know, we are sort of relying on your
expertise in telling us that we are not going to be sorry that we just chose to follow those
couple of policies that you found and that later on we are not going to have somebody
say, well, we want to change ours, too, and we don't need to change the book. Am I
reading that correctly?
Powell: Yes. And I have felt more comfortable with the previous ones where we nudged,
because we had an existing zoning there that you could say you were conceptually
applying with. I don't know if you remember Office Jet Subdivision, but right across from
it there was office property right across the street. Just for the more holistic discussion,
it really raises the question -- and I wasn't here when Packard went through, but this
problem was really created when Packard went through, because there is no way that it
would ever have been appropriate to put residential on this once Packard Estates was
approved the way it was approved. So, probably we need to be sensitive as staff to start
looking at some of these issues as these use exceptions come through on the planned
developments. The intent, I think, of -- in the 1970s when planned developments
allowed use exceptions was that those use exceptions would be internal to the property
arid used by those folks that were on the property. Here, they are catering to the edge
of the property and have affected the surrounding land uses a little bit, so, you know, if
you're doing a use exception, should they come back and amend the Comp Plan map, I
mean that's another question or -- because it kind of affects other people around them
once they do that. So, it's kind of -- this one has brought up a number of issues. And
that was just a discussion. I think I answered your question before I launched into the
discussion. Sorry.
Nary: Madam Mayoi'?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: I mean it seems like we are somewhat on a dilemma here. I guess for me I don't
know that we really have very solid footing to approve this project, because there is
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May 18, 2004
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some inconsistency. It makes sense. It's a reasonable project and it's reasonable along
an arterial to have what they are proposing, but I guess the precedent to me people is --
is exactly what's happened here. A project comes in like this and later on we simply
change it -- we just change it around and, again, we have never changed the map, we
have never changed the text to really fit that, we didn't with the PUD and now all of a
sudden we are kind of stuck. I don't know whether it's better to continue this and fix the
Comprehensive Plan in the interim or simply deny this and make these folks start over,
which I don't necessarily like either.
Powell: I feel somewhat responsible in that we didn't talk to you more about the
Comprehensive Plan matrix that this project was relying on, so in -- I would prefer that
you direct staff to -- what I think I'm hearing is do a text amendment for the
Comprehensive Plan to discuss just this one policy change, get that done, and table this
application, because I don't think it is the fault of the applicants or that another redesign
or use would be necessarily appropriate. I do kind of think that this is a little bit of staffs
-- we could have done better with the matrix in talking to you all and recognizing policy
changes and garnering support and all those things, so I would feel more comfortable
with that option.
De Weerd: Does the applicant have any comment? If you do, you can come and say it
into the record. Please state your name for the record.
Hobbs: Chris Hobbs.
De Weerd: Thank you
Hobbs: Admittedly, I don't have a lot of experience yet with the exact application of the
Comprehensive Plan and I don't know -- my understanding what of a Comprehensive
Plan was that it was the plan and that the actual zoning was the actual regulation that
applied and I don't understand exactly how that is set up with the City of Meridian, but
given your plan -- it's always okay to change your plan if you find later that it makes
sense to change it. So, certainly, like you say, it makes sense for this to be commercial
property. Does that make sense?
De Weerd: I guess right now our Comprehensive Plan does not support this and a land
use amendment would be a lot lengthier than a text amendment and so -- and that's
what staff is suggesting, that they look at this particular use or allowing it in text and at
some point clean it up with --
Powell: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, if I might frame the question for the
applicant a little better. The question tonight is whether or not to just table it for a length
of time or to deny it. The only advantage to denial would be if your -- your client had an
out clause with being denied, so that he could disinvest himself of the property if that's
what he wants to do at this time. Otherwise, it's probably in your interest to just let us
table it. Okay.
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May 18, 2004
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De Weerd: I guess, Council, maybe we should continue it until next week and the
applicant can have a chance to talk that through and that decision can be made next
week. Then, the applicant can deal with staff and maybe give you an idea of the
direction they would like to go.
Powell: Okay.
De Weerd: Mr. Wardle.
Wardle: That being said, Madam Mayor, I move that we close the public hearings --
Bird: No. No.
Wardle: Oh.
Bird: Continue it.
Wardle: I'm sorry. Continue the public hearings on Items 10 and 11 to next Tuesday.
Bird: May 25th.
Wardle: May 25th.
Nary: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to continue Items 10 and 11 to May
25th, 2004. All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: ALL AYES.
Item 15: Water, Sewer and Trash Delinquencies:
De Weerd: Item 15 is the water, sewer or trash delinquency. This is to inform you in
writing, if you so choose, that you have the right to apre-termination hearing at 7:30
p.m., Tuesday, May 18th, before the Mayor and City Council to appear in person to be
judged on the facts and to defend the claim made by this city that your water, sewer and
trash bill is delinquent. You may retain counsel. Your service will be discontinued on
May 19, 2004, unless payment is received in full. Is there anyone present who wishes to
contest his or her water, sewer, and trash delinquency? Hearing none, they are hereby
informed that they may appeal and have the decision of the city reviewed by the Fourth
Judicial District Court pursuant to Idaho State Code. Even though they appeal, their
water will be shut off. The amount of the turn-off list is $17,938.82. Council?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.