HomeMy WebLinkAbout2015-10-06 MinutesMeridian City Council October 6, 2015
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday, October
6, 2015, by Mayor Tammy de Weerd.
Members Present: Mayor Tammy de Weerd, Charlie Rountree Keith Bird, David
Zaremba, Genesis Milam and Joe Borton.
Members Absent: Luke Cavener.
Others Present: Bill Nary, Jaycee Holman, Caleb Hood, Sonya Watters, Josh Beach, Clint
Dolsby, Bob Stowe, Chris Amenn, Steve Siddoway, Mike Barton, and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X _ David Zaremba X _ Joe Borton
X___ Charlie Rountree X_ Keith Bird
__X__ Genesis Milam _____ Lucas Cavener
_X Mayor Tammy de Weerd
De Weerd: Thank you for joining us here this evening. We always appreciate our citizens
coming out and attending one of our City Council meetings. For the record it is Tuesday,
October 6. 6:00 p.m. We will start with roll call attendance, Madam Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance
De Weerd: Thank you. Item No. 2 is the Pledge of Allegiance. If you will all rise and join
us in the pledge to our flag.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by Pastor Larry Woodard with Ten Mile
Christian Church
De Weerd: Item No. 3 is our community invocation. Tonight we will be led by Larry
Woodard -- our beloved Larry. He is with Ten Mile Christian Church. We invite you to join
us in the community invocation or take this as an opportunity for a moment of reflection.
Thank you, Larry, for joining us.
Woodard: Before I -- before I prayed tonight let me just make a couple comments. There
is a couple of you going off the Council and I want to say I appreciate being with you over
the years and you have done an excellent job and I'm just pleased that you can take some
time off now on your own. So, you have done a good job. The other one is that we had
guests this last weekend from New Mexico who had never been to the Meridian or Boise
area and they were my secretaries when I was in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and their
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remarks about Meridian I took note of. They said this the cleanest town we have ever
been in and the people are so friendly here. One of them got on the phone to her son and
says you start applying for jobs in this area and I will move up here. So, you know, that
says something, doesn't it?
De Weerd: Oh, our secret's out.
Woodard: So, let me pray tonight.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Woodard: Dear Heavenly Father, I thank you for the blessings we have as Americans
and especially for those of us who live in Meridian. Wise counsel and friendly leaders
have been a hallmark of this city for many years and it shows in the way business is
conducted and the employees who serve our citizens. Despite events like Umpqua
Community College in Roseburg, a place my family lived for seven years or the
breakdown in American leadership in the Middle East, we continue to be blessed here.
Tonight we pray for the families who lost loved ones in that terrible shooting in Oregon
and also for the servicemen who were killed this last week in Afghanistan. We pray,
therefore, for our own police and firemen and EMTs who are our first responders. Keep
them safe and put your arms around them. I pray tonight for our Mayor and each
Councilman and Councilwoman, that you would give them additional wisdom as they
decide issues that will affect this community for years to come. Lastly, I pray for our
school teachers and the children that attend our schools. Keep them safe. But I keep
hearing that our children today are leaving high school, not knowing the history of this
nation and how men and women have sacrificed so that we can enjoy what we have
today. I pray that good teachers will tell the true story of our nation. Forgive us when we
make mistakes and it's always good to know that despite our stumbles you still love us, in
Jesus' name, amen.
De Weerd: Thank you, Larry. We always appreciate having you here and give Betty my
best.
Woodard: I will. She's fixing a washing machine tonight.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
De Weerd: Important business for sure. Item No. 4 is adoption of the agenda.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: On Item 5-L the resolution number is 15-1096. On Item 9-A the proposed --
the resolution number is 15-1091. 9-B the resolution number is 15-102. 9-C the
resolution number is 15-1093. And 9-F the resolution number is 15-1094. Items 9-G and
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9-H need to be reversed in order, so H becomes G and G becomes H. And with those
changes, Madam Mayor, I move that we approve the agenda.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the agenda as amended. All those
in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approval of Agreement to Schindler Elevator Corporation for
“Elevator Preventive Maintenance and Service at Meridian Police
Department” for a Not-To-Exceed amount of $2,580.00
B. Approval of Award of RFP and Services Agreement to VARSITY
FACILITY SERVICES for “JANITORIAL SERVICES” for a Not-To-
Exceed amount of $169,777.64
C. Approval of Agreement to Schindler Elevator Corporation for
“Elevator Preventive Maintenance and Service at Meridian City
Hall” for a Not-To-Exceed amount of $6,360.00
D. Approval of Agreement to Schindler Elevator Corporation for
“Elevator Preventive Maintenance and Service at Meridian Water
Resource Recovery Facility” for a Not-To-Exceed amount of
$4,200.00.
E. Approval of Award of Bid and Agreement to FLEXGROUND NV,
LLC for the “SETTLERS PARK – ADVENTURE ISLAND
RESURFACING” Project for a Not-To-Exceed amount of
$174,276.62.
F. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law: AZ 15-012 Graycliff
Estates by L.C. Development, Inc. Located Southwest of W.
Harris Street and S. Meridian Road Request: Annexation and
Zoning of 52.46 Acres with R-8 (36.66 Acres) and R-40 (15.8
Acres) Zoning Districts
G. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law: PP 15-012 Graycliff
Estates by L.C. Development, Inc. Located Southwest of W.
Harris Street and S. Meridian Road Request: Preliminary Plat
Approval Consisting of 120 Building Lots, Nine (9) Common Lots
and One (1) Other Lot on 52.46 Acres of Land in the R-8 and R-40
Zoning Districts
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H. Final Order: FP 15-031 Sovi Subdivision by DevCo Located 3515
S. Eagle Road Request: Final Plat Approval Consisting of Thirty-
Six (36) Single Family Residential Lots and Seven (7) Common
Lots on Approximately 4.86 Acres in the R-15 Zoning District
I. FP 15-032 Normandy Subdivision No. 1 by Schultz Development
Located 4145 S. Locust Grove Road Request: Final Plat Approval
Consisting of Forty-Four (44) Building Lots and Seven (7)
Common Lots on 11.03 Acres of Land in the R-8 Zoning District
J. FP 15-033 Paramount Subdivision No. 30 by SCS Brighton LLC,
Located North Side of W. McMillan Road and East of N. Linder
Road Request: Final Plat Consisting of Fifty-One (51) Building
Lots and Two (2) Common Lots on 16.49 Acres of Land in the R-
8 Zoning District
K. Franklin Road Keylock Sewer and Water Easement
L. Resolution No. 15-1096: A Resolution Authorizing the City Clerk
to Destroy Certain Semi-Permanent and Temporary Records of
the Meridian Public Works Department
M. Approval of Amendment No. 1 to Task Order 10601.A to Brown &
Caldwell, Inc. for the “ WRRF CAPACITY EXPANSION – DESIGN”
Project for a Not-To-Exceed amount of $228,907.00
De Weerd: Item 5 is our Consent Agenda.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I move that we approve the Consent Agenda, authorize the clerk to attest and
the Mayor to sign with the proposed -- with the change in resolution number.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve the Consent Agenda. If there is no
discussion, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
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Item 6: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda
De Weerd: There were no items moved from the Consent Agenda.
Item 7: Community Items/Presentations
A. Mayor’s Youth Advisory Council (MYAC) Update
De Weerd: So, I will start with Item 7-A. Tonight you will have a MYAC meeting.
Meridian Youth Advisory Council Meeting and Brianna Siddoway is here to -- to give you
the update. Come on forward. And Brianna also goes by Bree and that's how we know
her.
Siddoway: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, for the record my name is Brianna
Siddoway. I'm the vice-chair of MYAC this year and I am a senior at Rocky Mountain High
School. For this upcoming school year I will be giving you the updates for the Meridian
Mayor's Youth Advisory Council. Over the summer we had many meetings with the
Executive Council. We -- we planned activities. We also had an enjoyable time at Mayor
Tammy's home. We had a pool party and we had potluck and it was really fun and it
really made us more unified as a group. In mid August we held our registration for MYAC.
We had booths that were set up around the valley here in Meridian, set up at the high
schools, and when we took back the information we had approximately 400 people
interested in joining MYAC. On the 31st of August we had our very first meeting, the
orientation meeting. We had over 200 parents and students join here in Council
chambers for this meeting. With the numbers that we had gathered together we decided
that it would be a logical idea to do two separate meetings. With this we were able to fit
everyone and almost all of the seats were filled for both meetings. I'd like to move into the
Treasure Valley Youth Safety Summit. This is our fifth annual summit. We had -- we had
200 students from Meridian, Middleton, Nampa, Iona, and Blackfoot. We had met these --
these councils at the Association of Idaho Cities, which we attended last year and we told
them about it and they said that they -- they were very interested in joining. We decided
as an executive council to not do school specific groups. The reason why we did this was
because we wanted people to -- to get more involved and be able to hear what other
people here in the Treasure Valley are doing. Some of the activities that we did -- we had
a parent panel where we had -- we had the Freeses. We had Buck Rogers from Buckle
Up For Bobby. We had Officer Gomez and we talked about driving safety and notifying
suicidal thought in friends and other people at school and also suicide. With the suicide
they -- they talked about how their daughter had committed to suicide and the impact that
it had on their family. Officer Gomez also talked about internet safety, which is something
that we have heard from him multiple times and it still is a very enjoyable topic to listen to,
because it really gets you noticing the things that are out there. We also did an event
planning. We did this to get the youth here in the Treasure Valley to -- to learn how to do
these things to life, because we figured that it would be an important aspect to learn. We
also did texting while go carting. The reason why we did this so as to represent texting
while driving. It's just a fun and light way to represent how difficult it really is and how it's
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not possible to do it. We also did laser tag with uneven teams. We did this to represent
bullying and it was another -- as I said before, it was a very light way of talking about
bullying, but you could definitely see the impact of it. We also did miniature golf with
vision impaired goggles on and we did to that to represent how it would feel to be like as if
you were under the influence. On September 28th we had our general MYAC meeting.
This was set up more how -- how our future meetings will be planned. We had an ice
breaker. This one we decided to make it longer and we did it because we wanted to -- to
learn more about the members in MYAC. We also had Beverly Weise join us and she is
the mother of Tiffany, who was killed in the car accident with Bobby and she reminded us
of -- of what happened that we talked about at the youth safety summit. We also split up
into subcommittees and we did this -- there is three subcommittees that we can split up
into. There are government affairs, teen activities committee, and community service.
We asked the -- the members to pick one that they would be interested to join in for the
rest of this year. We also did school specific breakouts where we had the students from
each of the schools here in Meridian and we had them talk about the issues that they are
seeing in the schools. Some of the volunteer opportunities that we have coming up -- we
-- or in the past. We did the community block party. They asked us to help with the
mascots and that was really fun. We also did eight and forty-eight where they did the --
they made eight plays that they performed within 48 hours. We will be doing the Teens
Against Tobacco Use, which is -- the nickname is TATU. With this we will be going to the
middle schools here in Meridian and we will talk to them about the -- the dangers of using
tobacco. Also The Village has asked us to volunteer for many events that they have
coming up. One of the -- the events that they have recently asked us to help out is the
Villains at The Village. We have not received a bunch of information yet, but from what
we know they will be flying in people to dress up as villains in Disney movies and things of
that sort and we can help with crowd control, raffle tickets and things of that sort. Looking
forward, we will be doing our Meridian Youth Safety week with Officer Gomez. He will be
talking to us about internet safety. We also have the candidate forum with the Meridian
Press and Meridian Chamber. One of our biggest events is the trunker treat. It's going to
be held on Thursday, October 29th and KIZN, 92.3, is going to be sponsoring our -- our
entertainment side of this. It's a big event to here -- held in City Hall right here in the
parking lot and it brings many people to join together for a fun activity. It also benefits the
Meridian Food Bank. Now, I would like to ask you guys if you had any suggestions for the
high schools. If any of you had any ideas that us as the executive council may be able to
bring back to the high schools.
De Weerd: Thank you, Bree. Council, any comments for Brianna in regards to her
question on what they can be bringing back to their high schools and tackling with
perhaps some solutions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: A question on the question. I assume that's an open request and as we come
up with those kinds of things we get a hold of you through Ken and have them brought
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forward. I don't have anything off the top of my head right now, but I do have a question,
so --
De Weerd: Go ahead.
Rountree: I'm interested with the number of students that have shown an interest, have
you done a breakdown by -- by grade and the number of students interested by grade?
Siddoway: If we have I do not know how many, but I know that a lot of freshmen are
being interested in it. We are getting the word out to them more and also seniors,
because it's their last year, trying to get these great things on their resume.
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: I love your honesty. Any other comments for -- for Brianna for the question
she asked or to what our Mayor's Youth Advisory Council is up to?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Brianna, just -- I just want to say what a great job you have done on your
presentation and -- and how busy and successful you already are in this -- early in this
year and I'm excited to see everything that you bring forth the rest of the year, so thank
you.
Siddoway: Thank you.
De Weerd: Well, Council, I will tell you we have an outstanding executive council. They
have been so engaged, they have been so dedicated to getting together, in particular over
the summer to form plans and strategies to have a very successful year and if the first
month of MYAC is any indication, it's going to be an amazing year ahead and I'm not sure
if I'm more proud or your parents, so -- of your presentation. We just thank you for being
here with us tonight and appreciate all you do. You certainly fill both Ken and I's love
tanks every time we get together.
Siddoway: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Bird: Nice job.
Siddoway: Thank you.
B. Lake View Golf Course Capital Improvement Project and Request
for Rent Relief
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De Weerd: Okay. Item 7-B is under the request for the Lakeview Golf Course capital
improvement project and here to present in front of you tonight is Eric from Lakeview.
Thank you for being here. I never know how to say your last name.
Oaas: Oaas.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay. So, I said it right. I don't know. I have heard it recently and I
thought have I been saying it wrong the whole time? So, thank you for that.
Oaas: You Oaas money. No. Madam Mayor, Members of the Meridian City Council,
thank you for hearing me tonight. It's nice to be -- appear before you. Again, I'm Eric
Oaas, I'm one of the owners of the lease with the city in Lakeview Golf Course and the
purpose for me and the purpose for meeting tonight is to bring you up to date I guess with
regard to the capital improvement request that we are making from the City of Meridian
and Council this year and it's -- it's an item that we have talked about a couple of times in
the past. It -- it's the renovation -- rebuilding renovation of the number nine green and I
think we have talked about the need for doing this. It's -- that particular green has just
been a headache and a disaster for nearly every golfer who golfs on the golf course. It's
sort of like -- I have heard it described as playing golf on the back of a turtle. So, what we
will do is we have engaged with Timberstone Construction to sort of manage the project
with us, provide the equipment and most of the manpower, and we will supplement what
they are doing for -- for us on the project with an additional -- minimum of additional 1,500
dollars. The 6,000 dollars -- or the total project cost of 7,500 is -- is a not to exceed and
we are very confident that the work that will be done by Timberstone is going to -- in terms
of value will far exceed the 6,000 that -- that they will be billing us for. We have had -- we
have discussed this a number of times with the golf course focus group and just last week
we had the most recent meeting and we do have a recommendation for -- for approval
from the focus group and so with that I'm here to -- to make a formal request to the
Council and to your questions.
De Weerd: Council, questions? And I will give you somewhat of an update. First on our
golf course focus group. We did add new members on and they were at the last meeting.
While they said this -- this was one of those capital projects that would qualify under what
would be considered as a capital project, I know last year we did considerable work on
trying to help define what some of those items would be and while I don't think they
specifically voted on a number, they felt that that was up to the City Council. They felt that
it was a qualifying expense and were in support of -- of recommending it.
Oaas: Thank you for the clarification and -- and just maybe a -- sort of ancillary
information, the Lakeview Golf Course this year has -- in terms of other capital projects
that we have undertaken and paid for, we have purchased five additional carts -- golf carts
for our fleet and these were not replacements, these were additions to the fleet of golf
carts. The cost of that was just over 14,000 dollars and we -- we also purchased an
additional greens mower in order -- we already had one, which was doing just fine and
fully functional, but we -- by adding a second mower to the fleet it allows us to get the
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greens mowed in a much quicker manner, so that we can get -- we are limited by the time
that we can start mowing in the morning and so it gives us the opportunity to get golfers
out on the golf course in a quicker -- a quicker way. We paid -- we put a little over 4,000
dollars down and we are leasing the balance over -- over a 48 month period. So, in terms
of those two particular items, which I believe would qualify for the definition of capital
improvement, we are right at about 20,000 -- just under 20,000 for -- for the year, in
addition to the money that we will put forth on this number nine green rebuild.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Eric, I don't see how golf carts and a lawnmower improves our product out there. It
improves your business and I appreciate you doing that. On this discuss -- you're asking
for a complete 6,000 dollars?
Oaas: That's correct.
Bird: I don't know how the rest of them feel, but I think we should share 50-50. We could
pay 3,750 and you can give us 2,250 for rent and you can put the other 3,750 in. That's
my opinion.
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Thank you, Madam Mayor. We seem to have a --
De Weerd: Is your mike on?
Zaremba: Is it, but maybe I'm not close enough to it. We seem to have an ongoing
struggle with what's maintenance and what's operations and what would be a capital
improvement and I think we have discussed at one time a capital improvement that would
make the difference to the city is something that would be there after you leave. As
Councilman Bird pointed out, a number of things you mentioned are to me just part of your
operations and they are not something that would -- while they add value to your
operation, they don't necessarily add value to the property and I struggle with that. It --
that's just part of running the golf course that anybody has to do and I even think that of --
of upgrading the greens and fairways and so, unfortunately, I would be inclined to say this
doesn't count, although I would be willing to say an appreciation of what I know is going
on out there and you're going on, it would be -- I don't want to phrase it as a gift, but I
would support Councilman Bird's suggestion that we offer you 3,000 dollars off the rent.
But I don't mean by that that what you have suggested qualifies to me as capital
improvement.
Oaas: Thank you, Councilman Zaremba.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: You know, I'd hate to be on the other side of this discussion and being the
operator of the golf course, because we are never clear in our history as not being where
we are speaking tonight. Historically if there has been capital expenditure at the golf
course in any amount in excess of 6,000 dollars, which is the annual rental fee, the fee
has been waived. The question about whether or not -- and we are only talking about the
green improvement, which is in excess of 7,000 dollars -- a little bit over 7,000 dollars,
was discussed by the focus group and determined, yes, that's consistent with the
language that was agreed upon by the focus group and this Council as amendment to the
contract on how to go about requesting approval for capital expenditure and/or -- not
reimbursement, but waiver of rent. In my opinion and the opinion of the focus group, the
green improvement is a capital expenditure. The ninth green is not in any way, shape or
form, by any measure, a legitimate golf green. It's like -- more like putting on a volcano.
There is no place for pin placement, other than a few square feet in front of the green that
if you put a golf ball it doesn't go to the top and run down the other side. You have to be a
professional golfer to be able to hold the green. It's the rue of all the amateur golfers that
play the golf course. I think if there was one thing that golfers that play out there would
say in terms of improving the golf course it would flatten the ninth green and I have heard
that time and time again and I heard that to some degree in the focus group. My position
is, based on how we have historically handled capital improvements that until we amend
the agreement we have with the golf course and what is and what isn't capital, we hold
with what we have done in the past and that's been waiving of the fee. Now, the question
is is that waived for this year or next year. It was -- the rent was due six days ago and if --
in my opinion we should not waive it for 2015, but should consider the waiver of the rent
payment for 2016, with the condition that the project is complete. That's my position.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Eric, do you get more than one estimate on these projects or do you just get one
estimate and does the city have a copy of that?
Oaas: The -- I have -- in the earlier presentations I had the quotation from Timberstone to
the best that they had provided us, but they -- just in terms of a golf course contractor or --
they are well known throughout the whole region. They do projects literally in Idaho and
Montana and Wyoming and Utah. I'm not -- I'm sure they go -- they go as far as Oregon
and Washington, but -- but this is where they are based out of and there is really -- they
really are the -- the only qualified contractor I guess is what -- is the way I would describe
it to do this kind of work. What we asking for is -- is not a simple -- we are not asking for a
simple follow the -- the engineering drawings that you have, which, you know, any -- any
good qualified contractor could do that. We are avoiding all the cost of hiring a golf course
architect and developing all the engineering and all the plans in order to -- to facilitate
getting the project -- getting it done at a very, very competitive price and so -- so a lot of
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the work that will be done is -- is going to be done on the ground, you know, based on the
work that -- you know, all of their expertise in what they do elsewhere. So, to answer your
question, we really did not get another -- another quote for that very reason, that -- that
there aren't -- there just are not a number of people who could go out and do that -- that
work on site, you know, sort of on the fly.
Milam: Follow up. So, these -- they are somebody that travels all over the area, but
nobody else travels here, they are the only ones that could do this or you're saying it's --
I'm sorry, I'm just having a hard time -- for me it's hard to make a decision based on the
vague -- the vagueness of the information that we have. Basically you're the 6,000 dollars
-- I haven't seen what that entails, what part of that is anything unusually making a
business decision, I would get at least three estimates that I know that it's the lowest one
or the best qualified company and that is literally the only one.
Oaas: And, Councilwoman Milam, I think that we have -- we have provided -- and I
should have it with me tonight, but I -- but I'm sure that I provided the -- the information
specifically what they told us that they would -- they would do, you know, for the work and
we could -- we certainly could attempt to get additional quotes, but, again, it's such a
specialized -- it's such a specialized area and with construction being as hot as it is I --
you know, there is not a lot of interest in --
Milam: The little jobs?
Oaas: Yeah. In actually sort of the headaches that would be involved in this. It really is a
highly specialized talent, if you will, and that's why they are so darn busy. We have been
trying to get this done for over six months now and -- and we are finally going to get it
accomplished, because they have to come back home and -- and, you know, they are --
they are getting all the -- the mountain elevation courses done, you know, first before they
come back. But -- but it is a very highly specialized talent.
Milam: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Did I understand Councilman Rountree right, you're not asking forgiveness for '15,
you're willing to pay the -- you're asking for next year's forgiveness?
Oaas: Councilman Bird, we would be willing -- I mean if the Council -- if it's the Council's
preference to do it for next year, we would be --
Bird: I don't think my -- I don't think my opinion is going to change in a year, but -- so,
what we are actually doing is -- is setting the rent for next year, whether we forgive 3,750
or the full 6,000, whatever we do. But this year you're paying the 6,000?
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Oaas: If that's Council's wish, absolutely.
Bird: That where I -- I didn't understand it that way, but now I do. Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: So, to the last point that horse is out of the barn. I mean rent was due October 1
and the MOU that was developed in January of this year to try and avoid all of this
contemplated a situation where a request and the entire process was completed at least
30 days before October 1.
Oaas: Yes.
Borton: So, not only is rent certainly due for 2015 and '16 -- which if you haven't paid it it's
late; is that -- is that correct?
Oaas: For --
Borton: That was due six days ago.
Oaas: We -- we have not paid it; that is correct.
Borton: So --
De Weerd: And, Councilman Borton, I would just say that we didn't get the focus group
together until last week and there wasn't a meeting, so we were filling the seats and so
that one's on me.
Borton: Okay. So, nonetheless, we went through this process and as I see it, regardless
of what's happened in the past and as the sole person who tried to get this approved, if
you will recall early on -- and I couldn't get a second to get it approved, a couple things
were crystal clear in my eyes and there should be no question about it, lawnmowers,
equipment, are never, under any circumstances, ever a capital improvement for the
purpose of this program and we resolved that last time. So, it's an expenditure and it's
valuable for your business, but there is zero question on that point. I agree that
improvements -- and I agreed last time -- that improvements to the real property, like
you're suggesting, are what's contemplated in a capital improvement. It's that type of
improvement that the city wants to incentivize with this clumsy structure that we have got.
Nobody supported it last time. What I struggle with in this -- and Councilwoman hit on it to
some extent -- is over the course of nine months nothing's changed and you literally
brought back the Exhibit B and scribbled out a date and there is no more specificity than
we had nine months ago. It's -- it's riddled with if necessary and evaluate -- with this
approval you literally could do anything you wanted and it would qualify. You can cut and
move and design in any way and it would be sufficient -- and that's not necessarily your
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intent, but effectively you're asking the city to give you taxpayer dollars back to do this. I
don't feel anywhere close to being comfortable the way it's been written and presented.
There was comment back in January about some of the original intent was some shared
expenditures. Madam Mayor had asked that question in some detail and you had that
discussion that I thought was valuable. So, the idea of avoiding bids and avoiding design
to keep the cost as low as possible technically helps no one other than yourself; right? To
try and get the cost down to six grand -- 6,000 dollars, really doesn't help the taxpayer at
all to insure that it's truly a valuable capital improvement that meets the letter, intent of the
MOU that we designed. So -- now, if you haven't -- if you have got rent due six days ago
for this fiscal year, it sounds like that would be paid -- or in my mind should be paid and
the request right now would be contemplated perhaps well in advance for next year, which
gives you ample time to put some -- some clarity in really what's -- what's going to be
done and what's not going to be done and if that -- again to really be an improvement to
the city's asset, that's an expenditure worth -- worth making. So, I supported it last time
trying to incentivize that, but I don't think I can right now. I don't think -- but I don't think
you're at -- I think there is time for you to answer all of those details and provide some
more specifics.
Oaas: Well, Councilman Borton, I appreciate your comments and, you know, part of --
part of -- a big part of the problem is, you know, Timberstone has been so busy we -- we
literally have been hounding them from months and I understand that doesn't really solve
your question or your issues, but --
Borton: Uh-huh.
Oaas: -- but I don't -- I would take exception to your comment that I have done nothing in
the nine month period, because we have done a tremendous amount of work in -- but,
again, you're not seeing that, so --
Borton: No -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: I didn't say you have done nothing. I'm just looking at the document you
provided --
Oaas: Right.
Borton: -- which is literally the same exact piece of paper and you have crossed out
January 25th and wrote October 15th. So, what I mean nothing, it's just specifically with
regard to this request and any detail which answers the earlier questions that we needed
to see -- I mean kind of meet us halfway. The city wants to help. I think you got to do
your part and I don't think you have to make us feel comfortable that, yes, we are going to
give back to you taxpayer dollars for you to invest; right? If this came -- if it was a park's
request with this type of description would we provide 6,000 dollars to fund it? Certainly
not. If it was done that way in -- sometime in the past for whatever reason, it sounds like
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our intent at the process we went through in January was to end all of that and provide
real clarity, in fairness to you, exactly what's going to be required. So, when I saw the
same thing I had those concerns and with regard to a focus group recommendation, in my
eyes specifically to a capital improvement reimbursement, I find it hard to see any
reimbursement request that a focus group would be against. Because, really, what you're
trying to do is improve the golf course and have the city help pay for it, why would you be
opposed to anything, quite frankly. I would expect them to support darn near any form of
reimbursement you can get to help the golf course. So -- I mean I appreciate their
service, but it's not incredibly persuasive on this particular issue, because I don't know
what they would say no to if it helps the course, so --
Oaas: So, Councilman Borton, are you -- and, again, I'm just looking for clarity. Is it --
what is the purpose of the focus group, Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton? I mean it --
wasn't -- wasn't that the purpose, so that the focus group could look at and analyze and
determine and make recommendations?
De Weerd: Mr. Oaas, I guess the purpose of the focus group has been to vet what you
bring forward to the City Council in terms of qualifying it as a capital expense or not. I do
know there was some conversation about the carts and the lawnmower and I -- I think
there was maybe some difference of opinion of -- should that be counted towards the golf
course's piece of what they invest on an annual basis. They felt that it was the Council's
role to decide if there was a rent offset, what that amount should be, if -- the full amount or
if it was a portion of it. That wasn't there. They did discuss this is a capital improvement
as discussed last January and trying to better define that, they saw that this was an
improvement to the land, it goes with the land, and so if it were ever to be turned back to
the city, the city would benefit from that capital improvement. So, that was the discussion
and certainly that was the discussion that we had last January when we were trying to
define what those eligible capital improvements were. The focus group also serves as a
point of contact of the focus group members to users and potential users of the golf
course that feed feedback to the -- the operator and trying to make this an asset that we
all can be proud of and it's worked very well in being that two way dialogue in bringing the
voice of the people to the -- the operator and having that dialogue. So, we are all aware
of it as well. So, Steve, I don't know if you have anything you would like to add? I saw
you hop in the seat, so wanted to give you that opportunity.
Siddoway: I saw you looking at me like you wanted me to add my thoughts. So, the -- the
golf course focus group did discuss the improvement to the number nine green and they
did feel that that met the requirements for a capital improvement as discussed by the
Council at their previous meeting. They did recommend approval of that for your
consideration. Towards the end of that discussion, as they were talking about, you know,
is it a full 6,000, is it a cost share -- it was brought up the -- the golf carts and while they
didn't -- they encouraged Mr. Oaas to bring the information about the carts to the Council
for consideration, although they didn't have the full information in front of them last week. I
don't think the mower specifically came up last week and I think the question on whether
those would be considered capital would be if they are the city's asset if Mr. Oaas leaves
and I'm not sure they are, but maybe you could address that, Mr. Oaas. Finally, I would
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just say in terms of process, one thing I might recommend based on the -- the MOU and
the addendum to the agreement is that perhaps Council could just weigh in on whether
the improvement to the number nine green would be considered a capital improvement
towards rent relief. I think there is some urgency in terms of timing before -- with the
weather to get it moving this month if -- if that's the direction we want to go, but, then,
require that he come back with actual invoices and, then, have the discussion about the
dollars for next year's rent relief based on actual invoices for this -- this project. I guess
that's a recommendation I might make if possible moving forward.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Steve, got a question for you. In your opinion changing the green on hole nine,
does that make the property more valuable out there?
Siddoway: I think it's an improvement to the golf course that is an asset.
Bird: As to the business of the golf course or to -- is it -- does it put more money -- does it
make that golf course per square foot more valuable than it is now?
Milam: Yeah.
Bird: How?
Milam: Madam Mayor? Sorry, I --
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I believe that it is an improvement, just as if you were going to sell your house and
you -- and you paint -- you paint a room, it adds value. It does -- it improves -- it improves
the value -- improves the amount of the marketability of that asset. So, I believe that this
is a capital improvement. I was actually disheartened to hear you throw in the -- the
lawnmower and the carts, because kind of took away from this project as far as I'm
concerned, because those are not capital improvements in my mind, so I would have
rather not heard about those, because it kind of twisted me a little. However, I do believe
that this project is a capital improvement. I don't know that we should pay for the entire
thing and I certainly don't think we should pay for it before the project is done. I know we
want it based on invoices. I really would have liked to see multiple bids. If I was to go and
present it myself I say I would like multiple bids, then, we approve it or, you know, do it
and we -- then we decide based on actual invoices and the -- I would have more -- I would
want more clarification about the 1,500 dollars than is through your -- your grounds crew,
is that -- that labor, is that additional to their labor or are we just paying the labor that
you're paying them anyway? So, I would want -- those are the things I would need
clarification on. I hope that helps.
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Oaas: Councilwoman Milam, I -- indeed, the labor portion would be what -- what would be
-- we would be laying those people off sooner. In other words, that is -- that is additional
out of pocket cost for those individuals, because, you know, we are starting to -- the golf
season is starting to wane and so you have to keep your expenses match with your
revenues as much as possible, so -- so to answer your question that -- that would be
additional that we would incur for that project.
Milam: Thank you.
Oaas: If that helps. But I understand your -- your desire for -- for additional quotes and
I'm more than willing to respond to that.
Milam: That's just me, so --
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor, because earlier has been brought up, I will risk repeating what I
said in the earlier discussion and why I struggle with this. If -- if you look at any business
that's tried to attract customers -- let's take a retail business. They rotate their stock.
They change it with the seasons. Next year when you go in there they have got different
stuff than they had last year and it just seems reasonable to me that it's part of operating a
golf course to change the greens and fairways every once in a while to give a new
experience to the -- to the customers and I call that operations, not capital improvement.
It's something you have to do to retain customers is continuously make some changes,
whether you change elevations, put in traps, take out traps, put trees, take out trees -- all
of those things which change the course over a period of time and maybe you only do one
fairway green combination a year, but over time to me that's part of the operation of a golf
course that involves bringing customers that want to come back and say, okay, what's
different, you know, or -- and, yeah, if you have complaints about one of them you make
that improvement as part of it, but I struggle to see how that adds to the golf course. To
me it's just operations.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To -- to Mr. Siddoway's questions as to whether or not it qualifies -- I think it does.
I think it clearly falls within -- paragraph three in our MOU cites four conditions or
consideration that we look at in determining whether or not this is a capital improvement
and I think it meets them all. It improves the amenity, providing an additional
enhancement or capacity to serve. It's a permanent improvement. Useful life more than a
year. Ownership of the project is vested in the city upon completion. The project is not
intended to fulfill an operational obligation already existing in the lease agreement. So --
and we talked about this in January as well. I think it clearly falls in and -- and I would
love to support this type of project. I, quite frankly, am intrigued by multi-year projects and
large scale projects, because that's a big improvement to the city's asset we are willing to
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incentivize. I just don't think you're there at all with what's been provided. Again, I was
the only supporter before and I want to help, because I think it's appropriate in line with
the MOU. I'm not comfortable approving it with what's been presented, so my
recommendation would be get current for the rent that was due six days ago and, then,
refine it and if that means it doesn't start this fall, it doesn't start this fall. I'd rather it be
done right than done right now.
Oaas: I appreciate your response -- your comments, Councilman Borton. If we don't do it
this fall I'm going to get scalped and that's not your -- we have -- we have been talking
about this for months and -- and the members and the guests that are out there are all
tuned in and looking forward to this. I understand your need for -- for more information
and I'm more than willing to provide whatever you need, but -- but I feel very strongly that
we need to move on it and we need to move on it now. We are losing customers, so --
Borton: Madam Mayor. To that point I -- quite frankly I would have done something from
January 13th until July and I would have -- I have knocked on the Mayor's door and said --
Oaas: But, Councilman Borton, Madam Mayor, I asked you to support me. We have
been trying to get this done for -- for many months and the selection process for new
members has -- has done delayed this -- is it fair to say for three months?
De Weerd: To -- well, in getting it built?
Oaas: No. No. No. No. In terms of presenting this to the Council.
De Weerd: Yeah. Well, no. Our request came in I believe towards the end of August and
so it didn't -- it didn't delay it months from when you asked, but certainly when we got your
request to get it on the agenda that it did delay it a month, yes. I have already admitted
my end to this.
Oaas: And thank you, Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, we have -- we literally have
been hounding this contractor on a weekly basis and, again, I know that's not -- that's not
your -- your fault, but, believe me, there has been -- there has been a significant amount
of work done to -- to bring this to fruition, you know, at this point in time and, again, I
would -- I would request that -- that you give me the opportunity to gather additional
quotes and to -- and to get Timberstone -- you know, to provide some specific information,
but -- but I would urge the Council to move forward this year. The rent will be -- the rent
we decided -- Madam Mayor, I think you agreed that -- that we would have at least a few
-- a few days we would not be considered delinquent on our -- our lease payment. We
decided that last week; is that not correct? So, I don't want to be tarred and feathered for
not -- you know, not being current, because we are current and I would just urge the
Council to -- to allow me to bring the information back that you -- that you want and move
forward with the project.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
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De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I need some -- I guess some clarification on the process. Do we have to approve
it before he does the project or can he do the project and, then, come back and ask for
rent relief?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, on the process question, Council Member
Milam -- so, the request is supposed to come in prior to the fiscal year's beginning, but it
also requires that it be heard by the golf course focus group, which as the Mayor stated,
we weren't able to do that. So, Mr. Oaas is correct. At the meeting last week -- and,
Council Member Rountree, if I misstate this -- was there for the meeting as well. The golf
course committee wasn't concerned about the lateness because of the committee
configuration and meeting time. So, the other part of the process is before the rent relief
can actually be finally granted the Council can direct it, but the project needs to be
completed, the invoices need to be provided, and it needs to be inspected that it meets
the specifications that were intended and, then, the rent relief can be granted. So, the
question before you tonight -- and you have all hit on it -- on all of those points is if there is
rent relief for this year, which is what Mr. Oaas's original request was, it can be applied to
next year as we have discussed. It should be granted until it's completed, so that -- that
clearly is part of the process we anticipated and contemplated when we had this
discussion last year. So, it would have to still get done and completed before it was
granted. It's just whether or not you would grant it for this year, which means you wouldn't
have to pay it until the process was over or if you granted it for next year, then, you would
have to pay this year's current -- to be current and, then, once it's completed it could, then,
be applied to the next fiscal year. So, all of those things -- I hope that answers your
questions, but, really, that's the direction we were looking for tonight is if rent relief would
be granted, in what amount, and for which fiscal year. And it would all be done after it's
completed.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Milam: Madam Mayor? Oh.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: So, I guess I'm still coming back to the same place. We are talking about -- I'm
assuming at this point we are all talking about '16. So, there is plenty of time -- we have
now until September. From now until September. So, if it was my golf course I would
take care of the problem that needs to be taken care of, fix the green, do what needs to be
done and, then, come back and ask for rent relief and that's why I asked that question.
And if you do the project this year I don't -- if it technically can be done, then, you could
still ask for this year's project rent relief for next year and still do another project next year,
qualifying for next year. I hope that makes sense. I would like to see you do more
projects every year. I just don't see why this has to happen prior to the project happening,
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October 6, 2015
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because, obviously, as you said, the project needs to be done or the members -- you have
got people paying good money to be out there golfing. It probably needs to be handled.
So, I would go ahead and do that. But do we have to make that decision tonight I guess is
my question.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird and, then, Mr. Borton.
Borton: Oh.
Bird: Eric, I appreciate this coming down from 70 -- or 35,000 to 7,500, the green, this --
from January, but I -- I also -- if it's that important to the business, I'm like Councilwoman
Milam, go get the thing done and, then, come back and ask us for relieve next year. You
know, you're asking for relief now before you get the thing done and we -- and if it's that
important -- if it's -- if it's keeping players off the course, I would be out there with my
shovel and going to work.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird, I guess the line of thought was to bring this to Council to see if this
qualified and Council would agree to consider it for rent relief. The second question would
be how much. And, then, the operator can move forward knowing that the city would be a
partner to that capital expense or not and, then, bring back the -- the invoices for -- for the
project itself. If there is some difference between the rent relief and what you have
approved when the invoices come in, either the operator can pay the additional or the city
reimburses that. So, I guess that's -- that's more what the discussion was to -- to
contemplate. And it's just so we can move forward knowing is the city a partner or not and
how much of a partner they are. So, those -- those are the two items. Mr. Borton.
Borton: Madam Mayor, to that -- to that question, the -- the MOU, Section B-1, requires in
order for you to have the reimbursement you got to do what you're doing now. You are
required prior to incurring any expenses, come run it up the flag pole, see if we bless it --
Oaas: Yes.
Borton: -- and we do the work, bring back the invoices and finance would credit your rent
payment.
Oaas: That's correct.
Borton: So -- and that would -- so, this process would occur for the rent due next fall,
quite frankly, for the October 1 rent. So, it would need to be blessed at some point by
Council, then, completed, those receipts brought back by September 1 to -- or before that,
actually, is the process.
Oaas: Councilman Borton, that's true. But, again, to the Mayor's point, we -- we need to
understand whether -- if it meets, you know, the design criteria and the invoices are -- are
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accurate and bona fide, then, the Council -- then the city does want -- does -- will -- is
agreeing to be a partner on the project.
Borton: Madam Mayor. For what it's worth, submitting it -- this all had to be done right
before September 1. So, making the request in August is doomed to fail, quite frankly.
There is just not time to do it, you know, versus bring it to submit the form in June or May;
right? Because we had all the same documents -- exact same document we had in
January; right? It didn't get submitted back until August it sounds like and there were not
changes on it. So, for my -- the redesign or rebuild of a green is a capital improvement --
can be. What's been submitted is insufficient to support a reimbursement. We would
have no idea, unless you turn in receipts, whether they meet the work that you were going
to complete, because what's been presented doesn't really tell us, really, what's going to
be completed. So, I think it -- the potential is there, but I couldn't approve it today.
De Weerd: So, Council, to move this along, maybe you can let Mr. Oaas know what you
need and we can place this again on the -- the Council agenda next week. If you are
seeking further information or if you want to make some kind of a determination this
evening -- we are just trying to get some sense of direction here.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I would make a motion -- probably won't get seconded or probably won't get passed,
but I would -- I would move that we do not excuse the rent for fiscal year 2015, but that the
operator proceeds with the -- with the project in the fiscal year of 2016 and comes to us
for possible rent relief at that time.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Discussion?
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Were we required by the MOU to determine the specific at this point or just that
we will be a partner in the project?
De Weerd: I think that the motion says we would consider it. I didn't hear we would be.
Milam: Sorry. I'm curious about -- if that's what the agreement says.
De Weerd: I think the agreement does indicate that this Council needs to determine, one,
if it's a capital expenditure and, two, what the rent -- what the amount of rent relief would
be. And, then, following that you have to have invoices to show and expenses made.
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Bird: Madam Mayor?
Milam: I guess my question does that -- does that part of it need to be determined this
evening or when he comes back to us for rent relief based on Councilman Bird's motion?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Based on the -- very difficult to hammer out. We have been at this for over half
an hour. We have a very explicit process in place. The process says City Council motion
to approve project as rent relief eligible. In other words, it's a capital project. Total
amount approved is rent credit eligible upon completion and substantiation, which is the
submission of invoices, et cetera. We need to do two things. One is it eligible for rent
relief -- rent credit, as the MOU states and, two, how much.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
Rountree: And the most you can is 6,000 dollars.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: That's -- that's -- and, Mr. Nary, correct me if I'm wrong. With my motion we are --
we are not pardoning 2015's, but we are telling him to go ahead, come back to us, as the
MOU says, and at that time we determine whether he gets 50 percent, a hundred percent
of the deal, but he has to bring it back in.
Rountree: No.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Now for better or worse, we -- we tell them the figure now, because he needs to
know what the potential eligible reimbursement amount is prior to doing any of the work.
Bird: Madam Mayor, I can -- I will change -- if the second will approve I will change my
motion.
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Zaremba: Go ahead.
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October 6, 2015
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Bird: I make a motion that we do not forgive the rent at the golf course for fiscal year 2015
and that the operator goes ahead and does his project on green number nine and
presents the cost to us and at that time I would be in favor of -- if it's -- if it's under 8,000
dollars of doing 50 percent and if it's over 8,000 doing a hundred. But invoices have to be
shown.
Zaremba: Clarify the hundred percent being 6,000 dollars?
Bird: Six thousand dollars.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: Okay. So, I have a motion and a second to --
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Discussion. I think it needs to be clear that the maker of the motion has
indicated that the project is eligible for rent credit and, then, the other stipulations that he
has put forward.
Bird: That -- and the motion does clarify it when you come back and do it.
Rountree: It -- it doesn't state that.
De Weerd: Your notion implied that it was. Eligible just to give clarity --
Bird: Okay to open again? Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: I move we approve -- we do not approve the rent relief for fiscal 2015. The operator
goes ahead with this project on green number nine --
De Weerd: As an eligible project.
Bird: As -- and will be considered by the MOU as an eligible capital improvement and that
when he brings us the invoices and -- what I mean invoices I'm going to be very clear, it's
-- I want to see his labor time cards and all this stuff that -- from his own company to make
sure that we get the exact cost and if it's over -- if it's under 8,000 of the proposed we pay
50 percent. If it's over 8,000 we pay the full 6,000. We relief -- we forgive the full 6,000.
De Weerd: Will you repeat that? Oh, sorry. I --
Zaremba: I would second that.
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October 6, 2015
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De Weerd: I'm kidding.
Nary: Madam Mayor? Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Hold on. Did you second --
Zaremba: Uh?
De Weerd: Did you say you second?
Zaremba: I did second and I have a comment, but Mr. Nary has one first.
Nary: Madam Mayor, just wanted to clarify, because the record sometimes can get
muddy on this topic.
De Weerd: That's why I wanted him to repeat that.
Nary: I understand. I know Mr. Bird said fiscal year '15, but I believe he probably meant
the payment that was due October of '15 and the payment that is then due October of '16.
Because this is technically fiscal year '16.
Bird: No. I said we relieve him -- or we don't relieve him of his rent for fiscal year '15.
Nary: Fiscal year '15 was last year. This is fiscal year --
Bird: That's right. But he has to pay what he hasn't paid that he was supposed to pay in
September.
Nary: October of '15. I just wanted to be clear. I believe that's what you intended.
Bird: I didn't say calendar year.
Nary: Right. It's October of '15 is the one that's currently due, which is, actually, fiscal
year '16.
Bird: And we didn't relieve him of that.
Nary: Correct. And I was just wanting to clarify your motion, because I believe that's what
you intended and I didn't want it to get confused later and the next one is fiscal year '17,
which is October of '16 is what you would contemplate for the future.
Bird: October -- fiscal year October --
Nary: Yes. Sorry. I just wanted to make it clear, so --
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Bird: Okay.
Zaremba: Well, the clarification is that rent is actually due at the beginning of the fiscal
year.
Nary: Correct.
Zaremba: Okay. The second agrees with whatever was said. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes.
Zaremba: My additional comment -- just some discomfort and I will -- people can correct
me if I'm wrong about this, but my recollection is that the previous operators of this golf
course, lessees of it, did very little in the way of maintaining or improvement and we were
thrilled when Eric and his company came forward and said we will take this on and the
agreement that I remember -- and here is where people need to help my memory to make
sure it's accurate, but the agreement that I remember at that time when we allowed the
change of lessee -- the new lessee group had volunteered that at their own expense they
would improve three holes a year. Tee boxes. Fairways. Greens. Three sets of those
every year at their expense. So, the only reason I bring that up is I want us to understand
why I'm struggling with how far we have slid away from that. Now, if I'm wrong about what
I thought that agreement was, I'm happy to be corrected, but the reason we struggle -- the
reason I struggle with this is we have gone a long way from that, in my opinion.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: You're wrong.
Zaremba: Okay.
Rountree: There was rent relief provided with all of those projects.
Oaas: That's correct.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: I will just say that one of the reasons the focus group was put together was to
-- to flush out the improvements, the years considered for the rent relief or the lease relief
credit and that's -- that plan was followed and it was last year that the request that came in
front of Council was kind of a little bit blurred as to what was the capital expense and that
is why the lessee and our legal team worked at clarifying what was an eligible expense.
That kind of wiped everything out and said this is what needs to be done moving forward
and so that is where we are here today and having this -- this conversation. Mr. Bird, did
you have --
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October 6, 2015
Page 25 of 67
Bird: No. I'm fine.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: I'm ready for the question.
De Weerd: Any further discussion on the motion in front of Council?
Oaas: Madam Mayor, may I ask -- or have you closed --
De Weerd: No, we need to vote on the motion and, then, I will --
Oaas: I just need --
Milam: Madam Mayor. I guess -- sorry.
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I guess my question to -- maybe to the maker -- so, basically, if Eric pays his
employees 500 dollars more he gets an additional 2,000 dollars, That's -- that's quite an
incentive -- I'm having a hard time with that.
Bird: I see his time cards and I know -- I know he don't pay the -- he will be fair. I wouldn't
be stating it if I didn't think he was fair.
Milam: Okay. And I'm not saying -- that wasn't anything personal against you --
Oaas: No. I understand.
Milam: It was the way the motion was stated, so --
Bird: Madam Mayor? With public money I think that it is our duty to make sure that every
base is covered and seeing their time cards and -- and approximately I -- I know
approximately what they pay their employees out there, so -- I just think that with the
public tax dollars that we are forgiving -- to be clear, so --
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Okay. Just to be clear, though -- because I am just checking your math and I
think this is what Mrs. Milam is -- is asking. Your -- this is miserable for all of you and I
would say it is for us, too. What you're saying is if it's 8,000 dollars or less it's 50 percent.
Bird: Yeah.
De Weerd: But if it's over 8,000 you will pay 6,000.
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October 6, 2015
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Bird: We will forgive the six --
De Weerd: So, you will pay -- okay. You will forgive more than 50 percent.
Bird: Yes. We will give a hundred.
Milam: And that hundred percent is --
Bird: But he's got an estimate here of 7,500 and --
De Weerd: Okay. So, everyone is clear on the motion? Any further discussion? Madam
Clerk, will you, please, call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, nay; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: The motion passes with the majority in favor.
MOTION CARRIED: FOUR AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSENT.
Oaas: Thank you, Madam Mayor and City Council. I just -- just need to understand. We
are talking about 2017?
Bird: 2016.
Oaas: 2016.
Bird: The current year we are in right now.
Oaas: 2016. Okay. Got it. Thank you. Thank you very much.
Item 8: Action Items
A. Public Hearing Continued from September 22, 2015: AZ 15-009
Creason Creek Subdivision by CS2, LLC Located Near Southeast
Corner of N. Linder Road and W. Ustick Road Request:
Annexation and Zoning of 16.08 Acre of Land from the RUT
Zoning District to the R-8 Zoning District
B. Public Hearing Continued from September 22, 2015: PP 15-014
Creason Creek Subdivision by CS2, LLC Located Near Southeast
Corner of N. Linder Road and W. Ustick Road Request:
Preliminary Plat Approval Consisting of Fifty-One (51) Single
Family Residential Lots and Eight (8) Common Lots on
Approximately 15.75 Acres in a Proposed R-8 Zoning District
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October 6, 2015
Page 27 of 67
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Item 8-A and B are public hearings on -- continued from
September 22nd on AZ 15-009 and PP 15-014. I will ask for staff comments at this time.
Beach: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Council Members. This is a -- as you said, this was
continued from September 22nd and there was a question asked of Mr. Unger as to the
feasibility of tiling the Creason Lateral that crosses his property and I believe he has some
-- some exhibits he would like to present to answer those questions for you.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Unger, do you want to come forward, please.
Unger: Madam Mayor, Council, Bob Unger with ULC Management. 6104 North Gary
Lane, Boise, Idaho. 83714. Representing CS2, LLC, who is the developer.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Unger: We -- you know, I received some -- some good direction from the Council. They
had great questions and I have spent some time with staff and provided responses to the
questions and I believe staff has some --
Beach: Which -- which of the exhibits would you like to see? Any of them?
Unger: Start with the first one and we will go right down the list. It won't take long. Okay.
One of the -- one of the things that was brought up by Council Member Rountree was
about the sign that requires the road to be -- that says road to be extended in the future.
This is a standard ACHD barrier -- their barricade and that sign is always installed. So,
both of our stub streets will have a barricade just like that with the sign. Okay. Next one.
Mr. Rountree also requested that we show the orientation of the buildings that are on the
common drives and all of the orientations the front will face the common drives. So, we
did -- I did provide both of those items. And this is the other common drive. Okay. I met
with Dave Miles, who is the flood plain administrator and this is a copy of the -- of he and
I's e-mails back and forth and his recommendation is that there the condition 2.1.2 be
modified to read as shown on the -- on his e-mail here and, essentially, the question came
down to -- well, first of all, we were told we could not build a fence within the floodway.
That is not correct. We can build a fence within the floodway if we can demonstrate that
there is no rise in the flood elevations. So, what he has done here in modifying this
condition is -- we are required to submit an application -- a flood plain application, which
includes a hydrology report and that report is going to have to show no flood rise either
with the fence or tiling. So, he's comfortable with this condition of approval, so it gives us
either option and if we can't demonstrate that either one of them works, then, we can't
meet this condition of approval and that says we cannot move forward with the project.
Our preference is going to be to fence it, because we have some really nice, mature
willow trees along -- along that portion of the lateral. But we will see how the hydrology
report comes out. Okay. Another question that came up was whether Nampa-Meridian
would allow us to pipe that portion of the lateral and this is an e-mail from Greg Curtis at
Nampa-Meridian Irrigation District stating, essentially, that it can be tiled as long as we
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October 6, 2015
Page 28 of 67
have a license agreement with the district and we are going to have to have a license
agreement with them to fence it anyhow. So, either way we have to do a license
agreement. Okay. And, Madam Mayor, you -- you asked what we could do about people
-- other people from outside the subdivision using our park. About all we can do is put a
notice up -- and this is an example of a notice that we would put up that this park area is
designated for the use by the Creason Creek residence only. And I don't know if there is
more that we can do. I mean we can't, you know, patrol it and throw people out. Most
areas -- you know, they have like the subdivision to our east they have a park area of their
own that they can use. But certainly this is probably as far as we can go as far as, you
know, regulating who uses it. We can make that statement. If it becomes a huge issue,
then, I guess we could contact the police department and get people for trespassing.
Okay. If we can go to the next one, please. And this was another notice that we -- we are
agreeing to put up and that's in response to Council Member Rountree pertaining to
noticing that the property adjacent to ours is designated to be neighborhood commercial
by the by City of Meridian. So, we will place that same sign next to the -- on the barricade
at the two stub streets. Okay. Thank you. And we want to -- I wanted to show you just a
couple three real quick examples of areas that have sidewalks next to a canal or large
ditch with no fencing whatsoever. This particular one is an ACHD sidewalk. The next one
-- these are all on McMillan Road by the way. This is a pathway that's along a very large
canal, which is larger than the Five Mile Creek or the Creason Lateral. Considerably
larger and with higher flows and this pathway starts at the west end of this property and it
goes to the east end of the property and stops. And this -- this particular one and the next
one is on a project that was just recently approved and developed within the past year and
the same scenario. So, if I wanted to show those examples -- because if I wanted to show
those examples -- because ACHD is requiring us to put a sidewalk along the Five Mile
Creek, so I wanted to show that, you know, this has happened in the past without any kind
of fencing and, actually, the Five Mile Creek -- I checked the slopes on the Five Mile
Creek and the slope on that bank is about a five to one slope, which is less than most.
Okay. And, then, if we go to the next one --
Beach: I believe that was all of them, Bob.
Unger: Yeah. You're right. That is it. So, I think -- I think we have responded to the
questions and concerns that the Council brought up at the last meeting. We feel we can
move forward with the project. We will have to submit the flood plain application and
demonstrate that the lateral can either be fenced or piped without causing a rise in the
floodway. So, I will stand for any other questions you may have.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Thank you, Bob. Yes, Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Thank you, Bob. That was -- that was nice on your -- all your clarifications. I just
wanted to say also -- and I think that an open canal will be a much -- more esthetically
pretty as well. But, again, my concern was not it is by a path, but that it was the main area
where the only place the kids would have to go to play in the subdivision and so it was
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October 6, 2015
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purely a safety reason issue for that. That's -- really, that's the only common area, that's
where the kids are going to go hang out and play, so -- but thank you and it sounds like
you got a good situation for that. Glad to hear it.
Unger: Thank you.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council at this moment? It is a continued public
hearing, so I will ask if there is any public comment and, then, any follow-up questions for
Council. Thank you, Bob.
Unger: Thank you.
De Weerd: I did have one person sign up. Dorothy Olsen. Good evening. If you will,
please, state your name and address for the record.
Olsen: My name is Dorothy Olsen. I live at 2887 Northwest 12th Drive.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Olsen: Thank you all for letting -- hearing my concerns once again on this project. 12th
Street is a very, very small -- 12th Street Drive is a very small subdivision. It's only 25
houses. We are one street long. We are bordered on our east side by Crossfield, which
is a much larger development and on our south is a smaller, older residential
development. This particular project, Creason Creek, only has two outlets. Both of them
feed onto 12th Drive, which is my street. We already act as the connecting street
between Linder and Claire and our street 12th Drive and Ustick. The only -- my
suggestion -- my request at the last hearing on this project was to have traffic signals at
both of those intersections to help us with the traffic issue. However, I have learned that
that's not possible. So, now I have come up with another wonderful idea. I'd like for you
to consider reducing the density of this project. The -- the residential lot size in Creason
Creek is 60 feet wide. 12th Drive's street -- lot width is 70 feet wide. Looking at their map
it appears that I'm going to have half of two houses in my backyard and it's going to be
typical down 13th Street for Creason Creek, which backs the west side of 12th Drive. So,
we have 12 houses on -- in -- on 12th Drive's subdivision and 15 houses will back that
because of Creason Creek's lot size. It ought -- it just -- it's just not going to be nice and
it's going to really deteriorate the neighborhood I think. The other issue that I have is --
that we have very clay like soil. We have no drainage -- or practically no drainage. We
have had several homes in our street -- on our street that have dealt with water issues in
their crawl space. That has meant expensive repairs for them and they haven't been able
to get relief from the developer, because nobody can tell us whether it's groundwater,
drainage, or irrigation. We have at the end of 12th Drive a current catch basin. It's
adjacent to the canal -- the irrigation canal that runs there and in irrigation period is always
full of water, even though we have done some very extensive repairs last year per
ACHD's request. We still had water this year, mosquitoes, and it's not good. I don't know
-- I don't know whether it's because the water doesn't drain because of the soil or what the
issue is, but I do know that if I -- there is 51 houses behind me with eight common areas
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October 6, 2015
Page 30 of 67
that are being irrigated. The problem will probably not get better. In my opinion, it would
be better for something to be developed on that site that was more in tune with the rest of
the residential development in the area. By that I mean fewer houses. And I would like to
make one other comment. The park signs that they are proposing to put up in their park is
going to be difficult for them to maintain, but -- and Crossfield has the park, as he stated,
and everybody in the neighborhood uses it. It's not -- they don't have it posted. So, I just
think if they post that it's going cause even more bad feelings in the neighborhood
De Weerd: Thank you.
Olsen: Thank you very much.
De Weerd: Council, any questions for Mrs. Olsen?
Olsen: I do feel a bit like David with a very small sling shot.
De Weerd: Yes, please.
Brown: For the record Kent Brown. 3161 Springwood Drive. And I have nothing to do
with Mr. Unger's project or -- but I did happen to do 12th Avenue and the reason that
those lots are wide is that they -- they weren't very deep. There was kind of a sliver in
between and city staff and the highway district knew that there would be limitations on the
property to the west and encouraged -- insisted -- demanded that we make those
connections where we did and I understand the lot widths, but the prices of the homes I
would imagine would be very similar. They just have a different product and that different
product type provides us with diversity. I live on a half an acre next to Eagle Road and the
people that have acre lots aren't really that much different that are next to us and they
back up to Woodbridge and they have multiples that were behind them and it's just a part
of the neighbors that you have and I know that it's a difficult site and it's a difficult piece. It
was for us to design and try to squeeze in the required roads and secondary access and
everything else when we did that and I just offer that background as to why those lots are
a little wider. So thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Kent. Can you make any comment about the water level?
Brown: No, I can't. I didn't do any of the engineering, but we followed the same practice
that -- the City of Meridian has that requirement that the engineer certifies, you know,
you're three foot above. My practical experience tells me that generally it has to do with
irrigation and we have a tendency to overwater during the irrigation season our individual
properties, so --
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any questions? Thank you, Kent. Any other testimony on this
item? Okay. Would you like to summarize, Mr. Unger?
Unger: For the record Bob Unger again. In our neighborhood meeting the folks where
Mrs. Olsen lives they did make us aware of the groundwater issues over there. Now, a
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October 6, 2015
Page 31 of 67
portion of our site, which is directly behind them, is a little bit higher and it has been flood
irrigated for years and years and years and, of course, with this development we will have
pressurized irrigation. It won't be flood irrigation. And I think that's a portion of their
problem. Now, that area does have -- historically does have higher groundwater, you
know, and we will have to deal with that drainage ourselves. But we feel that we can --
you know, by eliminating the flood irrigation that we can certainly help with their issues
and also a point, 12th Avenue, all of the drainage for the streets and everything on 12th in
that area are all drainage swales. So, they are -- you know, they are not underground,
they are not -- you know, they are a standard drainage swale. There is no -- ACHD no
longer allows, but -- so that might be a problem there also. And as far as the density --
and I appreciate Kent Brown's comment. I think our densities are equal to the surrounding
area and the only reason I even brought up the park sign was that that was a question
that was brought up. You know, I like said, we are not going to chase people off from
using our park, as long as they don't abuse it. But people who come from outside our
development to use our park also need to understand that our association maintains --
takes care of that park. If people don't abuse it, you know, then, I don't think -- I don't
think it's going to be an issue. Okay? And I think that's everything I have to say and I
would -- I would ask for your approval this evening.
De Weerd: Any follow-up questions for Mr. Unger?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: I guess I would just quote someone I respect and I haven't heard him say this
for a little while -- is we are not in a hurry and my concern is the -- the corner lot and how
all of this interacts with that and how the ingress and egress will work with it and I guess
additionally too often -- in particular I believe that corner is mixed use?
Beach: That's correct.
De Weerd: When we have the mixed use come in no one wants it in their backyard and
it's nice to see these kind of corners in its full picture. I just -- I'm concerned about the
traffic and how they get in and out and any burden it puts on any one particular
subdivision, but I just think it should wait for the corner piece to go in and -- my thoughts.
And I wanted to say it while you were still standing here.
Unger: Okay. And I appreciate that, Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Unger: And I wish -- I wish I knew how that was going to develop. I truly do. But I don't --
I don't believe that our project is going to adversely affect what can happen on that
property and I think our accesses that we currently have, particularly the one to the
northeast, that would go right out to Ustick, I think that's the bulk of where our traffic is
going to go and certainly we are not going to have 51 houses built within the first year. In
fact, the way things are going right now we probably won't have more than ten in the first
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October 6, 2015
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year of the development itself. I would like one other correction just because I know a
staff member from ACHD spoke at the last hearing and said that the Ustick improvements
were not slated until 2017. I went back to ACHD, I took with -- spoke with Stacy
Yarrington -- in fact, it's in our staff report from ACHD. Those improvements are to
commence fall of 2016. So, that -- that will help the traffic. As we grow the traffic -- the
road will be wider, it should help the traffic in that area. So -- so thank you very much. I
appreciate your time.
Rountree: Madam Mayor? Bob, before you go.
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: I want to take you back to the last hearing and -- on the subject of the Creason
Lateral and the tiling and the discussion about you're not going to fence, you couldn't
fence, safety. Your comment was it looks like we are going to have to tile the Creason
Canal and my boss is going to kill me. Apparently your prediction didn't come true.
Unger: So am I.
Rountree: But I'm looking at -- at that and I know you contemplate a pedestrian bridge. I
don't know if you contemplated a vehicular bridge to open up those parcels on the other
side of the Creason for development. There is an intersection on the other side of the
street in that vicinity that you -- it appears that you could -- and I'm not going to engineer
and whatnot your site, but it appears to me that that's a possibility. If there was a
willingness to tile the Creason Lateral it seems to me there might have been a willingness
to look at the expense of a vehicular bridge in that particular area and get access to Linder
as well and have three points of access to your development. Was that ever
contemplated?
Unger: Madam Mayor, Mr. Rountree, I'm not quite -- I'm not quite sure I understand.
Rountree: Right there. You're probably not -- are you seeing your arrow on --
Unger: Okay. Right there. Okay. Beside the expense the -- the time in which it would
take us to do -- put a bridge in the floodway to do all the appropriate studies, it would take
us at least a year, maybe two years to do something like that.
Rountree: I expect you would have to tile it as well.
Unger: I'm sorry?
Rountree: You're going to have to do that if you -- if you have contemplated tiling it you're
going to have to do the same thing for a pedestrian bridge.
Unger: Well, Madam Mayor, Mr. Rountree, I mean we weren't -- we are not talking about
tiling the Five Mile Creek.
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October 6, 2015
Page 33 of 67
Rountree: I know. But you agreed to do it last week.
Unger: Right.
Rountree: Or two weeks ago.
Unger: Well -- and that was based upon the fact that we were told that -- that we could
not put a fence in the floodway. But as we found out from the flood plain administrator,
that is an option and we can tile -- we could fence either side of the Creason Lateral within
the floodway.
Rountree: I'm just speaking to your testimony, sir.
Unger: Yes, sir. And I'm clarifying my testimony based upon what I was being told by
staff at that time and now I understand that that's not quite correct, so --
Rountree: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions at this -- from Council?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Unger: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Council, any further information needed from staff or the applicant? If
not I would entertain a motion to close the public hearing.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we close the public hearing on AZ 15-009 and PP 15-014.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on Item 8-A and B.
All those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
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October 6, 2015
Page 34 of 67
Milam: I move that we approve AZ 15-009 with all staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-A. Any discussion from
Council? Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Rountree, nay; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, abstain; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: Three ayes. Motion passes.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSTAIN. ONE ABSENT.
Milam: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I move that we approve PP 15-014 with all staff, applicant, and public testimony.
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 8-B. Any discussion from
Council? Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, nay; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, abstain; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: Okay. The ayes have it.
MOTION CARRIED: THREE AYES. ONE NAY. ONE ABSTAIN. ONE ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing: PP 15-015 Trilogy Subdivision by Conger
Management Group Located Southeast Corner of W. Chinden
Boulevard and N. Black Cat Road Request: Preliminary Plat
Approval Consisting of One Hundred Forty-Four (144) Single
Family Residential Lots and Nine (9) Common Lots on
Approximately 28.16 Acres in the R-8 Zoning District
D. Public Hearing: MDA 15-009 Trilogy Subdivision by Conger
Management Group Located Southeast Corner of W. Chinden
Boulevard and N. Black Cat Road Request: Modify the Recorded
Development Agreement (Inst. # 107025553) for the purpose of
updating certain sections of the DA to reflect the design changes
to the proposed Trilogy Subdivision
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
Page 35 of 67
De Weerd: Items 8-C and D are public hearings on PP 15-015 and MDA 15-009. I will
open these two public hearings with staff comments.
Beach: This is another preliminary plat. This particular property was annexed into the city
in 2006 and at the same time a preliminary plat was also applied for with 145 single family
residential lots, 12 common lots, four private street lots and one future right of way lot on
28.17 acres of land. Today the applicant is bringing forth a preliminary plat for 144 single
family lots, nine common lots, removing the private streets on the above-mentioned 28.17
acres of land. This particular project is on -- near the corner of West Chinden and North
Black Cat, as you see here on the zoning and the aerial. It is currently zoned R-8. The
applicant has provided this proposed preliminary plat. The -- there are three common
drives that service 11 lots. The applicant is required to provide a 35 foot landscape buffer
adjacent to Chinden on the -- on the north side, as well as approximately 55 additional
feet that will be improved with grass until ITD purchases it for the widening of Chinden at
some future date. There is 10.2 percent of the property or 2.86 acres of open space. The
applicant is proposing a pedestrian pathway, a play structure, and -- as the amenities for
the project. The open space is shown here on this graphic. These are the proposed
elevations provided by the applicant and, then, as mentioned D is a modification to the
development agreement. They are reducing the number of single family lots and altering
the number of common lots as well for the -- for the project, which is why they are bringing
this forward. There is a large block length -- as you see -- if I'm able to -- I can't remember
the name of the road there, but those two intersections in the middle here noted staff is
requiring that they do something similar to the Creason Creek project that you just heard.
There will be bulb outs provided at these intersections. Staff has already coordinated with
ACHD and that's one of their conditions of approval as well and the proposed
development agreement conditions are here. At the Planning and Zoning Commission
there was a large amount of discussion on the sidewalk on Ramblin Court, which is --
going back to the aerial. This county subdivision here. ACHD in their staff report is
requiring that the applicant provide sidewalk from the proposed Exeter Road here
adjacent to their property along Ramblin Court here. Stand for any questions you may
have on the project.
De Weerd: Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Two quick ones. One with regard to the DA. Did we change the -- the time frame
with which -- within which we wanted them signed and returned?
Beach: We did not. They applied prior to it expiring.
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October 6, 2015
Page 36 of 67
Borton: But I mean going forward, though, did we -- maybe I'm remembering wrong. I
thought we were discussing having them -- or requiring them to be signed and returned
quicker than two years. No?
Zaremba: Yeah. I thought we went to six months.
Hood: Madam Mayor, Councilman Borton, that is one of the things that a couple weeks
ago Bill Parsons presented. It's in the UDC text amendments that we are currently
working on. That has not been through the process yet. We -- we did the workshop with
you to make sure everything seemed to be in order, so you probably won't see that for
another couple of months. What we are trying to -- that will be done before the end of the
year, but, no, right now it's I believe two years; right? We are looking at making that six
months, but that's not official yet.
Borton: Madam Mayor.
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Borton: If we were contemplating adjusting lot sizes to account for future changes to -- in
this, would it make sense to also account for that DA return being quicker? I just noticed
that in the material.
Hood: I mean -- Madam Mayor. I mean that's something you could do. The development
agreement is open if you want to make that a provision saying this needs to be returned
within six months. You could do that, so -- I mean that's at your discretion. Current code
right now allows two years. If you want to shorten that down to whatever --
Borton: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Caleb.
Borton: Last question -- and maybe it's for the applicant.
De Weerd: Can you bring your microphone closer?
Borton: Sorry. The -- the ACHD staff report made reference back in '06 there was a
requirement of a right turn lane on Black Cat, which was removed now, which was
shocking, but I couldn't -- from the report -- I didn't see the details of the traffic study. I
couldn't figure out why that was removed.
Beach: There had been -- Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, there had been some
discussion with the applicant and ACHD over the last couple of weeks on that specific
issue and ACHD consented to remove that condition. The applicant can touch a little
more on that, but that's -- I was cc'd on those e-mails, so I saw the discussion, but maybe
not the full history, so --
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
Page 37 of 67
Borton: Okay. Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions at this point? Good evening. If you will, please,
state your name and address for the record.
Conger: Good evening. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Jim Conger, 4824 West
Fairview Avenue. Thanks again for letting us in front of you tonight and as indicated we
are bringing back a previously approved project. During the great recession we went
through I think about all the renewals we could go through before we just finally let it
lapse. As Mr. Beach indicated, we have got a project with over -- just a little bit under
three acres of open space, two parks, a pond amenity, walking path, an active child play
area, just to name a few of the heavy amenities or the bigger amenities. This project was
approved in January of '06 before expiring. The plat in front of you today does have a little
bit less density, one lot or two lots. We had the same larger lots that we had before in the
previous -- Josh, is it possible to put up my program?
Beach: Absolutely.
Conger: Sorry, I thought that was. It was about my starting slide. It looked awful familiar.
The previous plat, as you can see in front of you, has the same larger lots that were
against the neighbors to the south. It's got the exact same circulation pattern. We did go
away from -- just go back and forth, you can see we went away from some of the private
streets and some of the private alleys in the previous approval, but block length, street
patterns, all of that is -- is identical to before in the previous approval. I think as it relates
to street connectivity, which you will hear tonight from -- from some of the neighbors and
we heard in our neighborhood meetings as well, I think it's helpful to see the whole project
in its context. We -- we kind of get surrounded by Bainbridge. Our pedestrian flows will
be through Bainbridge and eventually to the signalized light at the Tree Farm that is
constructed. We have requirements eventually, you know, through part -- you know,
probably the halfway point of this project to have secondary connection. We also go out
through Bainbridge back to Black Cat to one of their phases that aren't quite constructed
yet. Our utilities as far as sewer, water, all of that is in Black Cat, so this project, first
phase, has to be on the west side. That's where all the utilities are coming through and,
then, it will grow to the east. Ultimately there will be connectivity to Black Cat, but the
signalized entrance to Tree Farm would be probably a majority of the traffic specifically if
they were trying to migrate west towards Nampa on Chinden. I think -- I think -- there is
only two issues that we have with the staff report and there is really only one issue and it's
really not the staff report. There, as Mr. Beach indicated, ACHD is requiring the 120 foot
of sidewalk on -- you know, it is our frontage. We have very little frontage on -- on our
main road here -- where am I? Sorry. I apologize. What my point is with this is we have
120 foot of sidewalk as indicated here on the -- the exhibit. What -- what came out of --
and I guess what we -- we left this up to Planning and Zoning Commission and the
neighbors. If that sidewalk is wanted, then, we -- and that's the pleasure of the Council,
we certainly aren't going to dispute that. What I wanted to show you is the street program
in the bottom right corner. It is -- the trees and turf that you see will all disappear and if
the sidewalk is more important than the vegetative landscape, it -- we share this entry as
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October 6, 2015
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well. We would prefer to maintain the trees. If this sidewalk, which really would go to
nowhere and I think that's why I showed the previous slide, you can see the cul-de-sac.
Our sidewalk would end here. This cul-de-sac -- with the significant structures and homes
that are on the east side of this, this roadway is not going to continue on. And, again, we
are bringing that up. We heard that in the neighborhood meeting about trees. If the
neighbors want that 120 foot sidewalk we are -- we will have to remove the trees that are
in the right of way. So, there is the legal right to remove the trees and put in the sidewalk.
I will leave that completely up to Council and we will do either way. I think the original
staff report or -- that came out from staff, we were fine with. It had this 120 foot sidewalk
in it and, again, we will go either way on that. What came out of the Planning and Zoning
Commission, however -- and Josh didn't indicate it tonight, so I might be reading the
conditions of approval wrong. It seems like I came out of that condition with a -- or out of
that P&Z Commission hearing with an off-site requirement to put in the 220 feet that
doesn't abut our property out to Black Cat. We are not typically used to -- to getting --
when we have a development agreement we have a -- we are already annexed and,
obviously, we are not asking to be annexed. We are not used to -- to seeing these off-site
conditions put against a developer. So, I think the only thing I'm asking tonight if the
conditions that are written require this 220 foot, we ask that be removed. That 220 foot of
sidewalk will have its chance and its day when that front corner property develops. And
the 220 is not an ACHD commission. The 120 foot is an ACHD commission condition for
-- for the sidewalk. The 220 is not in the ACHD staff report. Touching base on just a
couple other clean-up items. The development agreement signed within six months, if
that's a condition of approval that's put on this project that is no -- no problem whatsoever.
I am also on that committee that -- lucky enough to be on the committee to work with your
staff on that UDC modification and that is certainly a good condition. So, we have got no
issue with that. As far as -- I think I heard our lot sizes are smaller in anticipation of the
new UDC changes. Our lot sizes are no different. The 40 foot lots were the same as they
were in 2006. So, those lot sizes have not got smaller. We have R-8 zoning we are
nowhere -- nowhere near five units per acre, as opposed to the eight units that the zoning
is set forth in this area. The final item I guess I would -- would come to is -- is the traffic
study and the right turn lane. Some of the original traffic studies that were done back in
2006 that took into account different projects and different densities of forecast, that is all
just changed with what's out there. ACHD let us provide them a new traffic study that
warrants aren't there for turn lanes, so what they did is -- with this being a new project that
their staff report simply does not require that. So, those have been removed and -- by the
highway district in their staff report. In closing I think it's just -- the condition 1.1.1B that
might have tagged on the off-site requirements of the Commission hearing, which, again, I
don't know without it being an annexation we are not typically used to seeing off-site
requirements, so I guess we would respectfully request that the larger sidewalk be
removed. With that I would definitely stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Jim. Council, any questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
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Zaremba: When this originally came through I was on the Planning and Zoning
Commission at that point and I remember a lengthy discussion about what you were
referring as the 220 feet. That was required at the time, as I recall. There was some
discussion about whether the other 120 ought to be included and what I -- what I don't
remember is whether that was part of the annexation or whether it was in the original DA.
But that 220 feet is not a new subject. That was discussed and included at the time by my
recollection. Actually, let me ask Mr. Nary a question if I can. Are we saying that the
original DA was not signed? Is that different than the preliminary plat not being recorded?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, it is different and we have different time
periods for those and there are extensions that are required for either one of them and this
one did have extensions on the development agreement, but not the preliminary plat.
That's why there is a new plat in front of you.
Zaremba: So, it would be my recollection that the original DA included that 220 feet and
is that what's being modified at this point?
Beach: That is correct. So, Members of the Council, Madam Mayor. So, in the original
development agreement it reads: Provide a utility -- let's see. Provide a utility easement
to the Janicek property to the northeast. Make additional landscape improvements and
construct a five foot wide sidewalk to the north side of Ramblin Court from North Exeter
Avenue to North Black Cat Road and enter into a license agreement for said
improvements with ACHD and that a more formal entry be made to the entrance of this
development. The modifications to that strike out -- make additional landscape
improvements, but we are still proposing that they construct that five foot sidewalk on the
north side of Ramblin Court from North Exeter to Black Cat. Does that make sense?
Zaremba: I think so.
Beach: And that is also what the Planning and Zoning recommended at the -- at our
previous meeting on this project.
Zaremba: So, I guess my question to you is this is not a new subject, it's a requirement
that you knew about?
Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Zaremba, I guess I'm still confused on that,
because that's not what that says. You're saying that condition says we tie out to Black
Cat? Because one of the big issues was -- it's very clear that this had to be reformalized
and west side had to get a sidewalk, which we did not have a west side sidewalk on that.
But that -- I guess if -- if the development agreement states we will connect to Black Cat,
we will connect to Black Cat and we will remove all the landscaping. I don't -- it keeps
talking about north sidewalks. I don't -- I guess I'm still confused on it, but we could take
that. If it reads to Black Cat we will build it to Black Cat, but I don't -- we don't think it
reads that and I think that was the confusion at Planning and Zoning as well. It didn't say
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October 6, 2015
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west of Black Cat is what I'm saying. But if that's the pleasure we will -- we are not here to
block sidewalks.
De Weerd: Any further questions, Council? Okay.
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: On the -- are we there?
Beach: Oh. Sorry.
Rountree: On the 120 feet of sidewalk to the -- to the east -- yeah. The 120 feet, you said
something about -- if you built that you would have to move the landscaping in the right of
way. Is that right of way or is that part of a lot owned by the HOA?
Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Rountree, that -- the right of way is my red --
red line here. It is all ACHD public right of way from edge to edge. There is not a
common lot. There is an agreement -- a typical license agreement, which is very normal
for a lot of our common areas, which we all think is common, but they are in the right of
way. So, that is not a landscaped common area owned by the HOA. It functions like that,
however.
De Weerd: Who installed it then?
Conger: Madam Mayor, that would have been -- from the previous developer of -- of the
neighborhood, which is -- which you can see to the south here when they put in that cul-
de-sac road they obtained license agreements with the highway district and that was their
landscape buffer.
De Weerd: So, they put their landscape buffer in the right of way?
Conger: Correct. That is very much correct and that's what you're looking at in this photo
in the bottom right-hand corner.
Rountree: Interesting.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions for the applicant at this time? Okay. Thank you.
Conger: Thank you all very much.
De Weerd: I have several people that signed up. If you would like to provide testimony
when I call your name, please, come forward. Don Brown signed up against. Good
evening. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
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October 6, 2015
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Brown: It's Don Brown. Address is 4595 West Ramblin Court.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Brown: Thank you, Madam Mayor and Members of the Council. A couple of things I
wanted to correct before we got too far into that is that -- that buffer, the landscaping was
installed by the neighbors. It was a borrow pit and we went ahead and put all the -- the
trees in, the sod in. We are actually watering it through -- we are going through the culvert
at the end of the Ramblin Court with water from the house on the end to maintain it. We
have taken it upon ourselves to mow it and make it attractive for our subdivision, rather
than just be a borrow pit. The other topic I think that came up -- and I don't know how to
work this too well, but this -- this area right there I think at Planning and Zoning the
discussion was surrounding the ability of the kids that are going to be living within that
subdivision to go out to catch the bus at Ramblin Court and Black Cat. If they do not have
that ability, if there is no sidewalk there, they are going to be standing in the middle of the
street. While construction is going on the main entrance to this is right here and I'm
looking at that -- I don't know if you can pull up the -- the whole plat of the subdivision, but,
basically, that's going to be the main entrance. I would submit that even if there is some
restrictions on how many houses they could put in to start the subdivision, we are all
creatures of habit. If everybody is using that way out, we are going to have some big
issues as far as traffic backup. You're going -- you're pulling out from Ramblin Court onto
Black Cat, which is a 50 mile an hour road, subsequently pulling out onto Chinden
Boulevard, which is a 55 mile an hour road. It's going to create some very unsafe
situations, plus you're going to have -- since this will be the initial egress for the
subdivision, it's going to create some huge problems as the children that do live on that
street try to get down to get to the bus. You're going to have cement trucks, you're going
to have dump trucks, you're going to have everything else coming in there, so it is a -- in
my opinion a huge safety hazard and, basically, you won't have these -- these stub roads
back here and up here will not be developed from my understanding until Bainbridge is
further developed. Based on a traffic count from ACHD, which was July of this year, there
were just short -- a little over -- a little less than 17,500 car passes just west of the Black
Cat and Chinden Road area. If you back that up and, then, you back the additional traffic
up, once you figure with that many houses you're going to have at least two cars per. I
have got a high school senior that drives multiple trips in and out every day, you're going
to create a very dangerous situation based solely on traffic flow. So, I would like to ask
you to reconsider the entrance to the subdivision. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.
De Weerd: Thank you. So, Phil -- I'm sorry, I can't read your last name. But signed up
against. Would you like to provide some testimony? Okay. Okay. But tell me what your
last name is. Haueter? Thank you. Sorry. I wasn't even going to attempt that one.
Okay. Kirsten Chidester.
Chidester: Close.
De Weerd: Signed up against. Thank you for being here. If you will, please, state your
name and address for the record.
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
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Chidester: Thank you, Madam Mayor. My name is Kirsten Chidester. I live on 4685
West Ramblin Court. And my concern is strictly a matter of safety with the access from
our street into that subdivision I feel like it's unnecessary. There is access to Bainbridge
just three-quarters of a -- I mean just a quarter of a mile south of there that is lined with
back fences where our -- our road is -- you're going in through our front yard and where
our kids are. And that -- that is my main concern. It's just -- I feel it's unnecessary to have
an additional access, especially with the proximity to Black Cat there, the traffic backs up,
it's one more thing to add to the traffic there, but my main concern is safety on that road
when I don't feel it's necessary. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Merlinda Haueter was also signed up against. Thank you for
being here. If you will, please, state your name and address for the record.
Haueter: I'm short, so I'm going to move this way down. Merlinda Haueter. 6280 North
Black Cat Road.
De Weerd: Thank you.
Haueter: Madam Mayor, Councilmen, we live on the corner of Black Cat and Chinden
and I wasn't going to say anything, because the road butts the back of our property, so the
traffic is not going to bother us as far as coming up and down Ramblin Court, but as I'm
sitting here listening I have seen traffic reports, but I also see on a daily basis the traffic
coming down Black Cat and turning onto Chinden and I have to tell you that there are
times when we can't even get in and out of our driveway at this point between 4:30 and
6:00 o'clock at night turning into our driveway is a hazard in traffic, even with a blinker on,
completely stopped, coming from either way, because it's close enough to Black Cat that
it's -- there is a lot of traffic, but it backs up so far at this point, but the idea of all the cars
coming out from -- from the neighborhood right off of Ramblin, I don't -- we are going to
have to just either be in our home in our driveway or out of our driveway for that hour and
a half if we want to come and go and it's already getting that way. It's already way backed
up. So, you know, I'm -- not a huge complaint. I know the neighborhood has to go in and
we have been prepared for this for a lot of years, because we have lived there for over 21
years. So, I'm not arguing the point that the neighborhood is going in, just that the traffic
coming out on Ramblin -- I don't know where the traffic reports have come from that
Conger Management has, but I know that I have seen traffic out my front door every day
and it's already a problem without any homes coming out there. Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. This is a public hearing. Is there anyone else who would like to
provide testimony on this item? Council, any questions? Do you need -- do you have any
questions from Justin?
Rountree: Sure.
Milam: Yeah.
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October 6, 2015
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Lucas: Good Evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. Justin Lucas
representing Ada County Highway District. 3775 Adams Street, Garden City, Idaho. And
just before I move into any questions, Mrs. Haueter is the best kindergarten teacher in the
state of Idaho. She taught my daughter -- my most difficult child and did a great job. I
don't know if she remembers. Her name is Samantha. But I just wanted to recognize her.
She may not like any of my responses tonight, but I just wanted to make sure that she
knew that in public I could say that. So, I'm ready now.
De Weerd: Well, thank you. Maybe that just softens the blow, if that's the intent. Council,
questions for Justin?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I don't know if you -- if you can answer. Did some -- did the warrant requirements
change from '06 to now to negate the right turn lane?
Lucas: So, you know, the ACHD staff report, which I will reference and should be in your
packet, should be -- should discuss most of those things. We have seen a significant
change in the -- in the long-term forecast that we -- we have for this area and so
oftentimes when those long-term forecasts change it can change some of the -- the
requirements for a right-in, right-out, or whatever it may be. Also with Bainbridge and
those other connections anticipated, that changes some of those -- those issues. But the
ACHD staff looks at this very carefully and if it's not warranted per the analysis it's not
required typically. So, I can't get much more technical than that.
De Weerd: Any other questions from Council?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: What's -- Madam Mayor. What's the -- ACHD's position on sidewalks and
landscaping in the right of way?
Lucas: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, it's not atypical for there to be landscaping
within our right of way with -- with some kind of license agreement. We have that
agreement in parkways and other things. Oftentimes those are within ACHD right of way
and through the development process they are -- they are done that way. As long as it's
being maintained and not creating a drainage issue, it's not something ACHD frowns
upon. This is a unique -- obviously a unique situation where this section of right of way -- I
believe it's Ramblin Court -- it's public right of way, it's a public street, and it abuts an
adjacent property who wants to take access from that. That happens all the time and this
is not an atypical situation from that perspective.
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
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Rountree: And in this particular instance you have an agreement and, if so, what does
that agreement say with respect to removal of landscaping, if at such time the road is
widened or improved?
Lucas: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, I cannot confirm that there is an agreement
in place for this landscaping. I don't have that available to me right now. I can certainly
look into that. The neighbors might be able to speak to that more directly than me, but
those license agreements are -- are usually written where they are not exclusive use, I
mean this is -- if, indeed, an adjacent property needs access to public right of way, that
landscaping can be removed without -- by the adjacent property owner. I think Mr.
Conger mentioned that and that is a correct statement and that does happen every now
and then where this is a landscape strip that someone puts in for esthetic purposes, the
neighbor wants to build a driveway and access a public street and that can be removed.
Rountree: Thank you.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: To that point in this project the developer is not the adjacent property owner for
this -- the 220 feet.
Lucas: Oh. Okay. So, if we are talking about the -- yes. If we are talking about building
a sidewalk for 220 feet -- I was focusing on the entryway right there.
De Weerd: The 120.
Lucas: The 120.
Borton: Okay.
Lucas; The 220 -- if, indeed, that was a condition from the annexation and that was a
requirement placed in the development agreement, ACHD will help facilitate the
construction of that sidewalk, depending on the right of way that's there. If there is plenty
of right of way anyone can come in and say I want to construct sidewalk within this right of
way and if it meets our standards and it was a condition by the City of Meridian, ACHD
would support that.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Any further questions for Justin?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
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October 6, 2015
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Nary: I just wanted to clarify. I misspoke earlier on the question regarding the original
development agreement. So, there is an original signed development agreement. The
staff recommendation to you is for a new development agreement which has that two year
ordinance provision allowing for signature. I think what Josh's recommendation was -- or
Caleb's was that if this Council's direction is to change that requirement to six months, we
can change that. Basically I think we will have to -- since we don't have an ordinance that
supports that, we would have to create language that basically says this agreement is void
if it's not -- if it's not signed within six months of the Council's final approval, because,
obviously, they are not abiding -- they don't abide by it until they sign it. So, that -- we can
certainly add that. But I wanted to clarify there was an existing one, they are asking for a
new development agreement in this case, because there are some changes to the plat
and the previous plat had expired and, again, that condition, as Josh read, was -- was
where the 220 foot requirement came for that access to Black Cat, so --
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Uh-huh.
Zaremba: Along with that subject, then, if the original DA was signed and the property
was therefore annexed, then, absent the modification to the DA, the 220 foot requirement
exists.
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Zaremba, that's correct.
Yes.
Zaremba: Okay. And it's okay with ACHD if the sidewalk goes in there.
Lucas: Certainly.
De Weerd: Good answer. I think you will even have your kindergarten -- your former
kindergarten teacher appreciate that answer. I don't see any further questions.
Lucas: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you, Justin. Okay. Would the applicant like to wrap -- make wrap up
remarks?
Conger: Quick wrap up, Madam Mayor. Jim Conger.
De Weerd: Oh, Jim, you know, I actually have a question for Don Brown real quick.
Conger: Yeah. That's fine.
De Weerd: And thought I better ask it before you wrapped up. So -- if you will just state
your name again.
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October 6, 2015
Page 46 of 67
Brown: Oh. Don Brown.
De Weerd: Thank you. So, Don, you mentioned that the landscape island, the 120 feet
that has been an item of discussion, is something that the subdivision is maintaining to
keep it esthetically nice. Would --
Brown: It's actually the -- we are maintaining the whole length clear out to Black Cat. So,
it's not only the 120, but it's the 220.
De Weerd: Oh. Okay. So, there is landscaping on the other side as well.
Brown: There is landscaping all the way down the road.
De Weerd: Okay. So, you mentioned in your testimony certainly a desire to have the
sidewalk from the entrance to Black Cat should this subdivision be approved.
Brown: I think that is the most rational approach, yeah, because I think it's totally a safety
issue for the kids that will be coming from that subdivision.
De Weerd: But the improvement from -- for the 120 feet, then, on the east side of the
subdivision entrance, do you have an opinion on that? Do you --
Brown: In speaking with the neighbors it's -- it's -- it's not a rational sidewalk, because
there is no houses over there. Everybody that would be using the street to go -- any of
the kids that would be going to Black Cat and Chinden, basically, will either have to cross
the street to go to the 220 feet of walk, but they will be walking down Ramblin Court. They
will be in the street, because all the houses are on that side of the street.
De Weerd: Thank you for that clarification.
Brown: Okay.
De Weerd: I appreciate that. Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Can I ask a quick question of Mr. Nary to that comment? If -- if ACHD makes a
recommendation to have in this instance 120 feet of sidewalk going to the east and if it's
the Council's prerogative that that may or may not be -- if it's not necessary, can it be
approved without that requirement or that piece of sidewalk?
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
Page 47 of 67
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Borton, you can approve
it without that requirement. If ACHD still will require for signature on the plat, they could
still require it anyway.
Borton: So, they are stuck.
Nary: Right.
Borton: Yeah.
De Weerd: But, then, you're stuck at that point and you have indicated your preference.
Borton: Okay.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Conger.
Conger: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, for the record Jim Conger. Touching
base, obviously, I'm not going to even try to attempt to -- to do better than what Justin did
on the traffic, so I think what -- what we can offer in the street connectivity is the best is,
ironically enough -- and it doesn't feel like it to the neighbors -- we are ultimately the
solution for Black Cat for these neighbors and for our own neighbors. We will have a
phase one, possibly a phase one and a half before we need to connect out to the other
connectivity of not only for the vehicles, but for the pedestrians. So, ultimately, we are not
at full build out bringing everybody on Rambling Court to Black Cat, we will have
connectivity to the east and we will have connectivity to the south and will be a solution for
them to leave for school or leave for work, as opposed to sitting -- if they are and we don't
discount that they are sitting at times at Black Cat for sure. I think second from traffic
studies, ACHD, we worked hand in hand. Our traffic studies, of course, are third-parties
that they get submitted to ACHD for their review and, then, they go through their traffic
engineers. There is -- there is no -- no hands-on with us in the middle of any of that, of
course. I think in the final item as far as sidewalks and safety, if it's the pleasure of the
Council for the others, we are fine with whatever sidewalks you guys say, we will, without
a doubt, happily put them in. So, if you don't do the shorter one we will go back to ACHD
and work and see if we can go to the Commission and -- and get rid of that. That's what
we kind of said to the neighbors before. If you want both sidewalks we will put in both
sidewalks. It's very simple on that matter. Stand for any further questions.
De Weerd: Okay. Council? Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Thank you. Jim, can you -- on the screen maybe describe or circle what you
would consider phase one and a time frame to when the ingress and egress would be
created?
Conger: You bet. Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, phase one -- phase one would
have to come in and get this loop road. So, this area is basically the phase one. We start
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October 6, 2015
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needing domestic water and, you know, secondary services and a lot of other things that
come with smart planning and smart neighborhoods, so, you know, this -- this phase one
-- it takes six months to get through this process, another six months to produce lots that
are even buildable by a builder and, then, the builder team would take four months to six
months to move through the first ten homes, let alone 40 or whatever would be in that
phase. So, we would be sitting here two years from now before we would be talking about
second phases. I know, you know, this phase is, you know, not far off the docket. I can't
quite commit for the other developer when they will come, but at some point. This is
under a different partnership with that, so at some point they will want to be developing
lots. But we are a year and a half and it might stretch as far as two years in the first phase
before there is look at adding more homeowners per se, which would be future phases.
Milam: Madam Mayor? To clarify, Jim, when you -- as soon as you start the second
phase you will also have an additional road to take those homeowners out the other end?
Conger: Madam Mayor, Council Member Milam, yeah, we have more stringent than the
Planning and Zoning. We have the fire restrictions of secondary accesses. So, we will
have to start addressing fire accesses to the fire code and Perry before we can get into
future phrases for sure.
Milam: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Mr. Bird.
Bird: Jim, just for my curiosity, what is -- what is the width on your lots there? Fifty feet? I
know -- I know the ones that back up is larger, but -- or probably R-4s, but --
Conger: Yeah.
Bird: What are the other ones?
Conger: Council Member Bird, the -- the core around the park area are the 40 footers in
that R-8 zone. They were 40 footers in 2006 as far as widths go.
Bird: Yeah.
Conger: That makes an attached product in the new UDC. If that new UDC gets
approved we are able to do some detached products, which I think would help values and
the housing values. So, we left the lots the same. We are prepared to -- to develop on
those and provide a product either way, whether the UDC is approved or not. Yes, we get
into some 50s and 60s, of course. These are, you know, all 80 footers adjacent to the
neighbors. These radiate a little bit wider in the 50s and 60s. The 40s mainly stayed in
the center core near the park amenity --
Bird: Down the east end -- and down the east side?
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Conger: Down the east end those are all closer to 50. Those aren't the 40 foot widths.
Bird: Okay. Thank you.
Conger: A little under five units per acre in an R-8 zoning and the comp plan that's
definitely asking for medium density.
De Weerd: What is the phasing plan for that? How many homes in the first phase before
you need the connection to the east and to the south?
Conger: Madam Mayor, it is a good question and it continued on from Council Member
Milam's. The first phase has -- I'm going to go off approximately 48 lots, something of that
nature, and that's I think approximately six more lots than we are allowed to build on. So,
our first phase will actually have about six lots that are nonbuildable, if my memory serves
me right. That gets us into the maximum amount of the fire code, which is still the most
restrictive covenant we have and, really, the most restrictive ordinance in the city of
Meridian. So, we will have to start having secondary accesses due to fire code before we
need them for domestic water and everything of that nature. Again, with -- with ACHD --
and Justin can talk to it better than I do. I mean is it public right of way? Public right of
way road is local standards -- local standard roads with 44 homes, plus the -- the handful
that's on it is still far -- and, again, is below the, you know, thresholds of any local roadway
and traffic pattern.
De Weerd: So -- and I don't recall if Justin mentioned this, but the right-hand -- the right
turn lane, will that be needed once you build additional phases?
Conger: Madam Mayor, our -- the only way we could evaluate a traffic study that ACHD
would review would be to -- to put a study on our entire build out. So, our entire build out
was based -- and did not hit the thresholds that require turn lanes in Black Cat. So, we do
not -- for our entire project will not have a requirement for turn lanes in Black Cat.
De Weerd: Wow. That's crazy. Just saying. Okay. Any further questions from Council?
Conger: Thank you.
De Weerd: Thank you. Okay. Council, any further information needed from staff or the
applicant?
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If none, I would move that we close the public hearing on Items 8-C and 8-D, PP
15-015 and MDA 15-009.
Zaremba: Second.
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De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearings on Items 8-C and
D. All those in favor say aye. All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I move that we approve Item -- take them one at a time. Item 8-C, PP 15-015,
preliminary plat, to include the sidewalks along the north side of Ramblin Court. I know it's
going to be referenced in the DA. I don't know if it needs to be referenced on the plat as
well, but to include that sidewalk requirement.
Bird: I will second it.
De Weerd: Okay. I have a motion to approve Item 8-C. Would that mean the sidewalk
stubbed to the east as well? The 120 feet?
Borton: Madam Mayor, if that's a portion of the preliminary plat I -- I might have presumed
it was within the DA, so -- so, the 220 to the west, yes. The 120 to the east no. Not to
have it hang up the particular project, but I'm not supportive of the 120 going to the east.
So, if that condition is removed -- is that reference on the plat or both the plat and the
DA?
Beach: The reference to the 120 to the east is a condition of approval from ACHD that
they install that sidewalk. We do not have that requirement in our staff report.
Borton: Okay.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I believe the 220 to the west is part of the MDA right now, so -- or for the DA. So, by
denying the DA you leave the 120 in, that isn't part of the preliminary plat.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: If the motion wasn't clear, for the preliminary plat approval would include the 220
to the west.
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October 6, 2015
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Bird: It's already taken care of in the DA.
Borton: Well, the reason -- and the reason I'm saying that is the applicant made some
comments that perhaps the language might not have been crystal clear and I don't want
the applicant to think that it's not required. They have been kind acknowledging they will
do, so we will be clear for the record, both with the plat and the DA that it is required.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other discussion? Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Move that we approve Item 8-D, MDA 15-009, a modified development
agreement to include condition 1.1.1B, the installation of a sidewalk along the north side
of Ramblin Court heading west to Black Cat, but excluding any requirement for 120 feet
along Ramblin Court going to the east.
Zaremba: Second.
Borton: To the extent it needs to include the provisions of the -- to be modified UDC with
regards to lot size and for the DA to be signed and returned within six months. In fact, all
of the development agreement provisions which are provided by staff and agreed to by
the applicant.
Zaremba: Now second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second. Any discussion?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weed: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Clarification. That by going with -- were you excluding 1.1.1B or the stuff along
Ramblin?
Nary: Madam Mayor?
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October 6, 2015
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De Weerd: Mr. Nary.
Nary: Maybe I could help and, then, Mr. Borton could clarify. What I'm understanding by
the -- by the motion and the second is that the requirement from the city is that the
developer construct a sidewalk along the north side of Ramblin Court to Black Cat. But
it's clarifying what was in the original DA. Mr. Borton excluded the 120 foot, because
that's an ACHD requirement and possibly because the developer asked for the ability to
go to ACHD and see if their commission would waive that requirement for the 120 foot.
So, that would be the result of that motion, if I understood it correctly.
Borton: Correct.
Nary: Okay.
Bird: Okay.
De Weerd: I got a second on that; right?
Bird: Yes.
Borton: Yes.
De Weerd: Okay. Just checking. Okay. Any further questions or comments? Madam
Clerk.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
E. Public Hearing: MDA 15-010 Southridge Apartments by DBTV
Southridge Farm, LLC Located South Side of W. Overland Road
Midway Between S. Linder Road and S. Ten Mile Road Request:
Modification to the Development Agreement to Update the
Conceptual Development Plan for the Site
De Weerd: Item 8-E is a public hearing on MDA 15-010. I will open this public hearing
with staff comments.
Watters: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. The next application before
you is a request for a development agreement modification. This site consists of
approximately 45 acres of land. It's currently zoned R-15 and is located on the south side
of West Overland Road between Linder and Ten Mile Roads. The applicant requests a
modification to the development agreement for Southridge Apartments to update the
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October 6, 2015
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conceptual site plan to include a development plan for the eastern 3.05 acre portion of the
area noted as phase three. The plan on the left is the current approved plan. The plan on
the right is the proposed plan. This portion of the site has been sold and is proposed to
develop with single family residential homes as part of the Southridge Estates
Subdivision. Staff also recommends changes to the text of the agreement as follows:
Require future development to comply with the design standards in effect at the time of
development and the TN-R dimensional standards and removal of two sections that are
no longer applicable. Written testimony has been received from Jason Densmer, the
applicant's representative. He is in agreement with the staff report, with a note that
ownership of the property has changed since the time of application submittal DBTV
Southridge Farm, LLC, to Southridge Farm, LLC. Staff is recommending approval per the
provisions in the staff report and as shown before you. Staff will stand for any questions
Council may have.
Rountree: Any questions?
Bird: I have none.
Rountree: Sonya, I have a question on your striking of the eighth condition.
Watters: Yes.
Rountree: Does that potentially lead to some future confusion?
Watters: No.
Rountree: I won't be here --
Watters: That's the short answer.
Rountree: -- if that's true. Okay. Thank you.
Bird: She will let you know.
Rountree: You will let me know. Just checking.
Bird: Whether Sonya is right or not.
Rountree: No further questions? Does the applicant have any comment?
Densmer: Thank you. For the record my name is Jason Densmer with the Land Group.
I'm here tonight on behalf of the two applicants. It's actually Corey Barton Homes and
Southridge Farm, LLC. If you recall, the Southridge Estates Subdivision was approved by
you at the end of July and one of the conditions of approval for that subdivision was that
we modify this development agreement because of the overlap between the underlying
Southridge Apartments development agreement and the Southridge Estates Subdivision,
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October 6, 2015
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which overlays a corner of that prior project. So, we are pleased tonight to bring that
development agreement modification to you and do agree with all of staff's analysis and
recommendations. Be happy to answer any questions that you have, but, otherwise, we
appreciate your consideration.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions?
Bird: I have none.
De Weerd: Okay. Thank you.
Densmer: Thank you.
De Weerd: This is a public hearing, but it doesn't seem that the people in the room
probably have any testimony, but you are invited.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Seeing none, I move we close the public hearing on MDA 15-010.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to close the public hearing on Item 8-E. All
those in favor say aye. All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve MDA 15-010 and include all staff, applicant comments and
for the development agreement to be signed within six months.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve this item. Any discussion from
Council? Hearing none, Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
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October 6, 2015
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MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 9: Department Reports
A. Mayor's Office: Resolution No. 15-1091: Resolution Appointing
Jacob Chambers to the Solid Waste Advisory Commission as
Youth Commissioner
De Weerd: Item 8 -- or, I'm sorry, 9-A is Resolution 15-1091. This resolution appoints
Jacob Chambers as our youth commissioner on the SWAC. I would answer any
questions that Council might have.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Hearing no questions and our SWAC representative left, I will -- I move we approve
Resolution 15-1091 appointing Jacob Chambers to the Solid Waste Advisory Commission
as the youth commissioner.
Borton: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-A. If there is no discussion,
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
B. Mayor's Office: Resolution No. 15-1092: Resolution Appointing
Lance F. Baumgartner to the Transportation Commission as
Youth Commissioner
De Weerd: Item 9-B is Resolution 15-1092. Council, this is an appointment for our youth
commissioner on the Transportation Commission. Caleb, did he -- did he attend
yesterday? So, he has already attended and I will tell you, all three of these youth are
going to be amazing and I know you heard that from me earlier about our Mayor's Youth
Advisory Council. We have a diversity of involvement, opinion and a lot of eager
teenagers wanting to be part, wanting their voice to be heard as part of our local
government. So, I would entertain any questions about Lance.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Yes, Mr. Zaremba.
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Zaremba: Just to clarify, he was introduced to the commission yesterday and did sit in the
audience, because he was not officially appointed yet, but he clearly is -- is enthusiastic
and going to be a good addition to the commission. So, that being said, I would like to
move that we approve Resolution 15-1092 appointment Lance F. Baumgartner to the
Transportation Commission as the youth commissioner.
Rountree: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-B. If there is no discussion,
Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. Mayor's Office: Resolution No. 15-1093: Resolution Appointing
Hannah Sturtevant to the Parks and Recreation Commission
De Weerd: Item 9-C is Resolution 15-1093. It's a resolution appointing Hannah
Sturtevant to the Parks and Recreation Commission. Hannah is on our Mayor's Youth
Advisory Council Executive Council. She is extremely active and dedicated. Hasn't
hesitated to give of her time and talents and we know she will be a huge contributor to the
Parks and Recreation Commission. I would stand for any questions you might have.
Bird: Hearing none -- Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve Resolution No. 15-1093 appointing Hannah Sturtevant to the
Parks and Recreation Commission.
Rountree: Second.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-C. Madam Clerk, will you
call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
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October 6, 2015
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MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
D. Parks and Recreation Department: License and Indemnity
Agreement Between the Lions Club of Meridian and the City of
Meridian
E. Parks and Recreation Department: First Amendment to Lease
Agreement Between the City of Meridian and American Harvest,
LLC for Lake Hazel Property and Authorization for Sublease with
The Turf Company
F. Parks and Recreation Department: Resolution No. 15-1094:
Authorizing First Amendment to Lease Agreement with
American Harvest, LLC for Lake Hazel Property and
Authorization for Sublease with The Turf Company
G. Parks and Recreation Department: First Amendment to Lease
Agreement Between Jesse Carlton dba Carlton Farms and the
City of Meridian
H. Parks and Recreation Department: Resolution No. 15-1095:
Authorizing First Amendment to Lease Agreement Between
Jesse Carlton and the City of Meridian
De Weerd: Item 9-D is under our Parks and Recreation Department. I will turn this over
to Mike Barton.
Barton: Good evening, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. I'm here this evening
with actually all things farm it seems like. They all landed on the same night. So, I'm
happy to be here. And the first item for consideration is a -- a new license agreement with
the Lions Club rodeo. We have been -- they have been holding an annual rodeo on our
Borup-Bottles property out on Cherry Lane for about the last ten years and we are happy
to support their effort as a longstanding community event and I know that the Lions do
good work for the community and in addition to the -- the value that that event provides
the citizens. So, they approached us this year with an idea to move the date of the rodeo
from September to -- to coincide with Dairy Days, which is about the third week of June.
Doing that changed our -- will change our farm configuration and change the revenue
amount that we would get from the farm. Right now as it currently sits we are -- we are
farming 38 acres. The Lions Club sit on 11. We get 3,800 dollars a year from the farm
revenue, but in addition to that we are doing the weed control for the Lions' part of
supporting their effort and their community event, so that's 1,800 dollars. So, the -- the
net revenue to the city of 2,000 dollars. So, one of the -- one of the main things we have
said is that we need to keep the city whole in this if we are going to change the -- the
timing of the event, so we approached the farmer and said, hey, are you still willing to do
this reduced acreage and he is, but he's -- but he wants to reduce the amount from a
hundred dollars an acre to 50. So, our revenue is 1,350 dollars from the farm. To make
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October 6, 2015
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us whole, the Lions Club is willing to make up the difference of the 1,350, with 650 dollars
a year in lease and in addition to that they will provide all the weed control on the property.
We feel it's -- it's a good arrangement. We are -- we would like to continue to support this
event and we are seeking your approval and I would be happy to stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Mike. Council, any questions? Okay. Well -- park liaison.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve the license and indemnity agreement between the Lions Club of
Meridian and the City of Meridian.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to be approve Item 9-D. Any discussion from
Council? Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: 9-E is also under our Parks Department.
Barton: So, if it pleases the Council, I would like to discuss 9-G in place, because that is
the amended farm agreement that deals with the Borup property and I think Councilman
Rountree amended the agenda to maybe reflect that, but -- put the resolution ahead of the
discussion. So --
De Weerd: Thank you.
Barton: So, with your approval, I would like to discuss 9-G now. And this one simply --
Nary: Madam Mayor, maybe I could help.
De Weerd: The new 9-G?
Nary: Madam Mayor, maybe I could help. So, what is previously 9-H that Council
Member Rountree asked to move ahead of the previous 9-G --
De Weerd: Right.
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Nary: -- one is the resolution -- one is the amendment to the lease agreement and the
other is the resolution which declares that the property is of no value to the city and the
reason we need to do the resolution first is because under the law we have to declare it is
of no value to the city first before we can, then, lease it out to someone else and they just
got juxtaposed in the agenda manager process and so we had to make sure we took them
in that order and, again, since it was related to the same property that's why Mike thought
it would make the most sense to just talk about them all at the same time.
De Weerd: Okay. Well, let's just all talk about 9-E, F and G and H.
Barton: All at the same time. Perfect.
De Weerd: The old and new and all of this.
Barton: So, to close the loop on the license agreement with the Lion's Club, as I
previously stated, we have a -- we have a farmer that's under lease right now and this new
arrangement will reduce the amount that he's willing to pay for the remaining property,
which is cut up and reduced amount, so he's willing to pay the 50 dollars an acre. This
amended lease to -- covers that and gets it in writing, so we do have a farm lease at a
reduced amount. And with that I will stand for questions.
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Zaremba: If this depends on us saying that there is no use for the property, that's
something that may be true today, but not true a couple of years from now. Just remind
me what the length of the lease is, if you would.
Barton: So, Madam Mayor, Councilman Zaremba, the lease -- the license agreement that
we have with the Lions Club is a year-to-year license agreement. It has a renewal if we
choose to. There is also some whereas language in there that states clearly that the
intended use of this property is for a municipal park in the future. So, there are no
misunderstandings about the future of this property.
Zaremba: Thank you.
De Weerd: Okay. Any other questions?
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: Before I make a motion, what am I making it on, not that you have got me all
confused. It's on --
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October 6, 2015
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De Weerd: I believe it's on -- you're on --
Bird: 8-G.
De Weerd: 8-G or H.
Bird: No, it's not Carlton. Carlton is the Turf Club; right?
Barton: No.
Bird: Oh. Okay. Then it's eight -- and it's 15-1086. or 96. I move -- it's eight -- that we
approve Resolution No. 15-1095, authorizing first amendment with lease agreement
between Jesse Carlton and the City of Meridian.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve this resolution under the new G, the
former H. Madam Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
De Weerd: Okay.
Bird: Now --
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve Resolution No. 15 -- or do we do the sublease -- sub
agreement first? The resolution first, don't we?
Nary: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, Council Member Bird, the next item is to
approve the amended -- the amendment to the lease agreement.
Bird: Okay.
Nary: The resolution was separate. So, what is listed on your agenda as G is what you
would be approving next.
Bird: I move we approve the first amendment to the lease agreement between the City of
Meridian and America Harvest, LLC, for Lake Hazel property and authorization to
sublease with the turf club.
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October 6, 2015
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Zaremba: That was E echo. We are looking for G golf.
Nary: Yes.
De Weerd: You -- you did --
Bird: I did --
De Weerd: -- H and now you need G.
Bird: Yes. Now I need G. Yeah. Okay.
Zaremba: We are scrambling this whole thing.
Bird: I move -- Madam Mayor -- we didn't get a second on that one, so -- I move we
approve the first amendment to lease agreement between Jesse Carlton, doing business
as Carlton Farms and the City of Meridian.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve this item, whatever it is. Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Now I can approve the other one. Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve resolution number 15-1094, authorizing first amendment to
lease agreement with American Harvest, LLC, for Lake Hazel property and authorization
to sublease with the turf company.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Resolution 15-1094. Any
discussion?
Bird: Is that not right? Mike's shaking his head.
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Barton: Madam Mayor, Councilman Bird, I think the resolution is with -- with first
amendment to the least agreement between Jesse Carlton and the City of Meridian, not
American Harvest.
Bird: Just passed that. We just passed that.
De Weerd: You already did that one.
Zaremba: We did that one.
Bird: We passed that one.
Rountree: Yeah. We are done.
De Weerd: No. He didn't --
Bird: We got this last one to do. 15-1094. It was out of order.
Zaremba: Yeah. Madam Mayor, in seconding it I knew we had not discussed E, echo,
and F, Frank, yet.
De Weerd: That's correct.
Zaremba: But they don't appear to need much introduction.
Bird: We had talked about it.
Barton: I believe the sublease still needs a short discussion and approval.
Rountree: That would be Item 9-F.
De Weerd: F.
Zaremba: Uh-huh.
Barton: Yes. Correct. Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, 9-F. We have a current
lease at our 77 acre property in south Meridian that's being farmed by American Harvest.
They have approached us with an idea to sublease it to the turf company to, essentially,
turn that property into a sod farm. In addition to that, they are requesting the occasional
use to old soccer tournaments on the site, provided that they go through the temporary
use permit process with the county. We feel it's a good use of the property. There is a
great amount of beautification that goes with the sod farm and if you look at it now there is
a fair amount of weeds on the property and we think that there is benefit in providing
overflow recreational uses to the community as well. So, in regards to the lease amount,
our three year average for -- between lease payments and crop sharing has been 11,500
dollars for the last three years and our proposal is for them to pay us 11,500 dollars per
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October 6, 2015
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year, no crop sharing, just a flat fee 11,500 and we are still whole. So, with that I will
stand for questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Any questions?
Rountree: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Rountree.
Rountree: Mike, what does this do to the top soil regimen ultimately, depending on how
many years it's operated?
Barton: Madam Mayor, Councilman Rountree, great question. We actually did a little bit
of research into that. We have a -- a soils guy that we lean on for testing and we asked
that question to him and, basically, they harvest about a quarter inch of soil off each
cutting and each cutting is about 18 months. A lot of the roots that are left over, just
during the decomposition process, rebuild some of that soil. It seems like they are
trucking off top soil, but they are really not. Steve, when he was going to school, worked
for Kimberly Nurseries and they have a sod farm and he called up the owner of Kimberly
and said, you know, hey, I'm looking out my window and we have been growing sod on
this 38 acres here for like 20 years and it hasn't really changed. He said it might have
changed a little bit, but not significantly. We see this as our next regional park, so there is
going to be a portion of this that goes into park development within probably three years
we are hoping and so the likelihood that we are going to lose any significant top soil is
minimal. In fact, if anything it keeps the site clean and prevents erosion when it's -- when
there is no crop on there, so there are some benefits that we see.
Rountree: Thank you.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move that we approve the first amendment to lease agreement between the City of
Meridian and American Harvest, LLC, for the Lake Hazel property and authorization to
sub lease with the turf company.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-E.
Zaremba: F.
De Weerd: F?
Bird: E. We still got F to go.
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
Page 64 of 67
De Weerd: Yeah. We are on E. F is the resolution that follows this. Any discussion?
Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: That one passes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we approve resolution number 15-1094, authorizing first amendment to
lease agreement with American Harvest, LLC, for the Lake Hazel property, authorization
for sublease with the turf company.
Zaremba: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-F, as in Frank. Any
discussion? Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: Okay. That one passed, too.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
I. Fire Department: Sale and Disposal of Fire Engine 38 to the West
Ada School District
De Weerd: Item 9-I is under our Fire Department. I will turn this over to Deputy Chief
Amenn.
Amenn: Thank you, Madam Mayor, Members of the Council. What you have before you
is an asset disposal form. This for the sale of Engine 38, the 1982 Pierce engine. It's
being replaced with an engine that's being delivered -- supposed to be delivered no later
than Thursday afternoon. We propose to sell this to the West Ada School District for a
sum of 12,000 dollars. We had this listed as evaluation of approximately 15,000 dollars
on our asset sheet. This is based on our ongoing analysis and a proposal -- I'm sorry --
an appraisal we received from two different used fire apparatus dealers, the amount of
12,000 is what West Ada School District can afford this year. The engine that they have
for their fire protection -- fire program at Renaissance High School is no longer in service.
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
Page 65 of 67
We feel this would be a good value for the city to accept, as we see at minimum a 500
hours of volunteer service from the students that participate in that program every year.
Again, that's a minimum. Some of the projects that we have had going on, like the smoke
detector project, they had done as much as 200 hours on just that project. So, with that I
will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, any questions? Okay.
Borton: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: I would move that we approve the sale and disposal of fire Engine 38 to the West
Ada School District as described.
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-I. Madam Clerk.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
J. Public Works: Budget Amendment for FY2016 in the Amount of
$250,000.00 for Sewer Line Extensions
De Weerd: Item 9-J is under our Public Works Department.
Dolsby: Madam Mayor, Members of the Council, the amendment you have before you will
fund the design of the south Meridian Black Cat trunk sewer phase five project. This
project takes the sewer from approximately the corner of Meridian Road and Victory and it
will take it south to about a quarter of a mile south of the intersection of Meridian and
Amity and we have -- currently have a two year time frame to complete the construction of
this project. This is for design. We will be coming back for an amendment if we need --
when we need funds for construction and potentially one for easements as well. With that
I will stand for any questions.
De Weerd: Thank you, Clint. Council, questions?
Zaremba: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Zaremba.
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
Page 66 of 67
Zaremba: I move we approve the budget amendment for fiscal year 2016 in the amount
of 250,000 dollars for design of sewer line extensions. Is that correct?
Bird: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to approve Item 9-J. Madam Clerk, will you call
roll.
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 10: Future Meeting Topics
De Weerd: Council, any items to consider under Item 10? Hearing none, Item --
Borton: Sorry.
De Weerd: Mr. Borton.
Borton: Try to make the meeting go longer. At the workshop next week there is an item
that's going to be requested from Fire to come back -- it's not a surprise, but before they
go on their retreat there is going to be a discussion with Council about the alternate
response vehicle, have us give some direction on any specifics we'd like to see them to
address in their meeting. So, heads up that's coming next week.
Item 11: Executive Session per Idaho State Code 74-206 (d) – Records Exempt
from Disclosure and (f) – Legal Counsel on Pending or Imminently
Likely Litigation
De Weerd: Thank you. Council, under Item 11 I would entertain a motion to --
Bird: Madam Mayor?
De Weerd: Mr. Bird.
Bird: I move we go into Executive Session as per Idaho State Code 74-206(1)(d),(1)(f).
Milam: Second.
De Weerd: I have a motion and a second to adjourn into Executive Session. Madam
Clerk, will you call roll.
Meridian City Council
October 6, 2015
Page 67 of 67
Roll Call: Rountree, yea; Bird, yea; Zaremba, yea; Borton, yea; Milam, yea; Cavener,
absent.
De Weerd: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
EXECUTIVE SESSION: (9:06 p.m. to 10:27 p.m.)
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:27 P.M.
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