2017-01-17Meridian City Council January 17, 2017
A meeting of the Meridian City Council was called to order at 6:00 p.m., Tuesday,
January 17, 2017, by Keith Bird.
Members Present: Keith Bird, Genesis Milam, Luke Cavener, Ty Palmer and
Anne Little Roberts.
Members Absent: Mayor Tammy de Weerd and Joe Borton.
Others Present: Bill Nary, C.Jay Coles, Jaycee Holman, Bruce Chatterton, Josh
Beach, Kyle Radek, Scott Colaianni, David Jones, Mike Barton, Keith Watts and
Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll-call Attendance:
Roll call.
X_ Anne Little Roberts _ _ _Joe Borton
X__ Ty Palmer X_ Keith Bird
__X__ Genesis Milam __X__ Lucas Cavener
___ Mayor Tammy de Weerd
Bird: Welcome to the regularly scheduled January 17th, 2017, Council meeting.
Welcome to everybody here. We will start with roll call, please, Mr. Clerk.
Item 2: Pledge of Allegiance by Cub Scout Troops 153 & 306
Bird: Thank you. Item No. 2 is the posting of the colors and the Pledge of
Allegiance will be led tonight by Cub Scout Troops 153 and 306. If we would all,
please, rise.
(Pledge of Allegiance recited.)
Item 3: Community Invocation by David Duron with Meridian First
Baptist Church
Bird: Thank you, young men. Very nice job. I don't see Pastor Duron here, so
we skip Item No. 3.
Item 4: Adoption of the Agenda
Bird: And go to Item No. 4, the adoption of the agenda.
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Meridian City Council
January 17, 2017
Page 2 of 67
Cavener: We need to add 5-L, the approval of the award of bid and agreement
to Knife River Corporation for the Black Cat Trunk Sewer Phase 5 construction
project for a not to exceed amount of $405,785.85 and with that I move we adopt
the agenda.
Milam: Second.
Bird: Okay. We have got a motion to approve the agenda as amended and a
second. All in favor say aye. Okay. It's passed.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 5: Consent Agenda
A. Approve Minutes of January 3, 2017 City Council
Regular Meeting
B. Final Plat for Jump Creek Subdivision No. 2 (H-2016-
0134) by Trilogy Idaho Located 5335 N. Black Cat Road
C. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Dorado
Subdivision (H-2016-0131) by Jake Wylie Located 2490
and 2976 E. Overland Road
D. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Una Mas (H-
2016-0132) by Chad Olsen Located Southwest Corner of
N. Records Avenue and E. Tecate Lane
E. Final Order for Southridge Subdivision No. 3 (H-2016-
0133) by Corey Barton Homes, Inc. Located Southwest
Corner of S. Linder Road and W. Overland Road
F. Brighton Investments LLC Sanitary Sewer and Water
Main Easement within Paramount Square Apartments
G. Addendum to the Water Right Transfer Application
Agreement with Nampa & Meridian Irrigation District
H. Acceptance Agreements for Display of Artwork in Initial
Point Gallery, Meridian City Hall between City of
Meridian and:
Tim Allen, February 2017
Paula Ryan, February 2017
Cyndy Lounsbury, March 2017
Meridian City Council
January 17, 2017
Page 3 of 67
Sherri Stehle, March 2017
Cindy Gillett, April 2017
Christina Karras, April 2017
David Knoecklein, April 2017
Joyce Green, May 2017
Naomi Elton, May 2017
Carol Smith, May 2017
Jane Wilson, May 2017
Dyan Ferren, June 2017
Kim Lock, June 2017
Lauri Borer, July 2017
Josephine Forrester, July 2017
Carol Johansen, August 2017
Jessica Tookey, September 2017
Edie Schutte Martin, September 2017
Plein Air Painters of Idaho, October 2017
Betty Hayzlett, October 2017
Ben & Celina Innocent, November 2017
Joni Frey, December 2017
I. In Accordance with the Cost Share Permit Previously
Approved by City Council, Approve the Not-To-Exceed
Amount of $88,742.34 to pay Ada County Highway
District (ACHD) for Street Light Improvements
Constructed by Knife River Corporation for the
Frontage of Settlers Park on Ustick Road and Meridian
Road. ACHD Projects 513038, 313039, 512008 and
City Of Meridian Project 10432
J. Award of AIA Agreement to Kreizenbeck Constructors
for the STOREY PARK RESTROOM ADA UPGRADES
project for a Not-To-Exceed amount of $64,451.00
K. Approval of Award of Task Order 10708.a and
Agreement to Murray, Smith and Associates, Inc. for the
“Pine Avenue Water Main Replacement and Sewer
Extension from Meridian Rd to W 3rd St” project for a
Not-To-Exceed
amount of $54,336.00
L. Amended onto the agenda: Approval of Award of Bid
and Agreement to Knife River Corporation Northwest for the
“BLACK CAT TRUNK SEWER – PHASE 5
CONSTRUCTION” project for a Not-To-Exceed amount
of
$405,705.85
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January 17, 2017
Page 4 of 67
Bird: Item 5 is the Consent Agenda. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. President, I move we approve the Consent Agenda as published.
Milam: Second.
Bird: I have got a motion to approve the Consent Agend a as published and a
second. Roll call, please, Mr. Clerk.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea;
Little Roberts, yea.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 6: Items Moved From the Consent Agenda None
Item 7: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for Firenze Plaza (H-2016-0102) by
Sharryn Ann Clark and David L Clark Located at the
Northwest Corner of East Amity Road and South Eagle
Road
1. Request: Amendment to the Comprehensive Plan
Future Land Use Map to change the Land Use
Designation on 26.81 Acres of Land from Low Density
Residential to Mixed Use Community
2. Request: Annexation and Zoning of 40.38 Acres of
Land from RUT to C-C (16.33 acres) and R-8 (24.05
acres) Zoning Districts
3. Request: Preliminary Plat Consisting of 11
Commercial Lots, Two (2) Common Lots and One (1)
Right-Of-Way Lot on 16. 33 Acres in the Proposed C-
C Zoning District
Bird: Okay. We move down into Action Items. Public hearing for H-2016-0102.
I will open the public hearing and listen to -- have staff first.
Beach: Good evening, President. As you said, this is an application for a
Comprehensive Plan map amendment, annexation and zoning, and for a
preliminary plat. The size of this property, the existing zoning, and the location of
the specific property consists of approximately 40.38 acres of land, which is
zoned RUT on the northwest corner of East Amity Road and South Eagle Road.
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January 17, 2017
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The adjacent land use and zoning. To the north is single family -- single family
homes in Tuscany Subdivision, which is zoned R-8. Get my map here so you
can see. To the east is South Eagle Road and single family residential
properties in R-4 and RUT in Ada County. To the south is East Amity Road and
single family or agricultural property, also zoned RUT in Ada County and to the
west is single family homes in Tuscany Subdivision, which are also zoned R-8.
As this is an annexation there is no current City of Meridian history on this
property. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation is low
density residential. The applicant proposes to amend the future land use map to
change the land use designation on 37.83 acres of land from low density
residential to mixed use community. The purpose of this designation is to
allocate areas where community servicing uses and dwellings are seamlessly
integrated into the urban fabric, intended to integrate a variety of uses, including
residential, and to avoid mainly single use and strip commercial type buildings.
The applicant is proposing two public street connections. So, as you see -- let
me back up. These are the two -- on the top is the existing Comprehensive Plan
land use designation of low density residential and on the bottom is a proposed
mixed use designation that is proposed by the applicant. So, the applicant is
proposing two public street connections. One to South Eagle Road and one to
East Amity Road. The applicant is also requesting approval of two drive aisle
connections, one to South Eagle Road and also one to East Amity. All these
access points are predicated upon ACHD and City Council granting their
approval and just for your information in an ACHD hearing held on the 14th of
December ACHD's commission denied the request to have the two drive aisle
connections. However, their staff did send us an e-mail indicating that with future
development of this site those could be potentially permitted . So, that's
something we have to work with -- with the highway district. The design of future
structures on this site are required to comply with the design standards listed in
UDC and the City of Meridian architectural standards manual. The development
should incorporate high quality architectural design and materials consistent with
the mixed use community designation. In order for the development to be
considered integrated with the adjacent medium density residential and low
density residential, a comp plan designation to the north and to the west, he
proposed mixed use area. The future residential and commercial development
should be cohesive in site layout and architectural design to those properties.
Part of the mixed use designation requires a mixture of land uses with a
minimum of three, as well as a vehicular and pedestrian connections to the
surrounding neighbors or neighborhood s in this case. So, with those being --
things being proposed and with the recommendation of approval from the
Planning and Zoning Commission, I'd like to go over to the -- kind of review the
hearing from the 15th of December. So, the applicant Tamara Thompson was in
favor of the application. In opposition were David and Robin Kearns, Peggy
McGee, Koriel, Emry and Gracie Humphries, Romeo Gervais, Karena and
Andrew Gardner, Warren Cays, Ann Stephens, Connie Maus, Mike Boily,
Carolyn Tenn, Jeff Brummer, Steven Stark, David Feldman, Sean Weeks,
Deanna Johnson, Mutell, Kathleen Gallagher, Richard Gardner, Ben Miller, Bill
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January 17, 2017
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Humphries, Jonathan Wadsworth, Kim Hobson, Suzanne Steenkolk, Richard
Pullara, David Raine and Skye Ragland. Those same folks commented. We did
receive a large number of comments on this application , as well as at least a
handful of petitions, including several hundred signatures. I was the staff
member presenting the application. Bill Parsons also commented. Key issues of
public testimony were the vehicular and pedestrian connectivity with the
surrounding Tuscany Subdivision. The appropriateness of the zoning
designations for the two out parcels, which at the time were R-15 and R-8. High-
density residential developing on a portion of the -- the concerns with high
density residential being a permitted land use on one of the parcels. Safety of
the children using the amenities in the area. Walking to nearby schools and
waiting at surrounding bus stops. Leaving the Comprehensive Plan in place as it
is. The residents purchased their homes with the assumption that this would
always be low density residential housing. Potential for increased traffic through
the Tuscany Subdivision and moving forward with the commercial development
without having specific development plans for the residential portion of -- of the
project for connectivity, density, and design, as that portion is not being proposed
with this application. Key issues of discussion by the Commission were density
of the residential portions of the project that are to be developed in the future.
Removing the road connection from the proposed commercial portion of the
project to South Montague Way. The appropriateness of the Comprehensive
Plan map amendment change from the current to the proposed. Design
standards of a potential TN-R zoning district in lieu of the R-15. Prohibiting multi-
family developments in the development agreement. Inclusion of a minimum lot
size for the residential portion of the proposed development. Restricting the four
commercial lots in the northeast corner to only L-O uses. The right-in, right-out
access points from the commercial portion. Completing the street frontage
improvements along the entire length of South Montague Way with the first
phase. R-8 versus R-15 zoning of the property for the Parcel A. There are a
large number of changes to the conditions. A lot of them having to do with
removing the reference to the R-15 zoning district, because the Planning and
Zoning did not recommend approval of changing it from R-8, which was
proposed by the applicants, to R-15. So, you see a lot of those modified for that
reason here. I can go through this one by one if you would like, but there is a
couple issues outstanding for City Council. One being the applicant has
requested the Council to approve the right-in, right-out access points to Eagle
and Amity Roads. And, again, at the December 14th ACHD commission hearing
the commission denied the applicant's request for those two access points, but
as I have stated staff has reviewed an updated memo from the highway district
stating they would evaluate the need for those additional access points if they
were demonstrated to be necessary by traffic analysis with future developments.
And, then, the last thing is requiring the frontage improvements across Parcel B
as Eagle Road frontage with the first phase of development and that was
touched a little bit by Planning and Zoning. It was something that staff had put in
as a condition, that if not the entire landscape buffer be constructed, that at least
a sidewalk be constructed from the existing stub sidewalk in Tuscany, so that
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January 17, 2017
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folks could reach the commercial portion. With that there were, as I said, a large
number of written testimony. None that I could see that they were received prior
-- or since the Planning and Zoning Commission to now and I will stand for any
questions you have.
Bird: Council, any questions for staff at this time?
Cavener: Not at this time.
Bird: Not at this time? Is the applicant here?
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: And perhaps maybe for the app licant, before she begins, I understand
that there is a request before us to have this issue continued. Am I accurate in
that understanding?
Bird: We will ask her. Tamara, did you hear what --
Thompson: I did. I did. Mr. President, Members of the Council, my name is
Tamara Thompson. I'm with The Land Group, 462 East Shore Drive in Eagle.
We had originally requested a continuance due to some travel schedules and
some conflicts with childcare. I was able to get that taken care of . So, we are
ready to go forward if -- if the Council prefers.
Bird: Okay. Thank you. Go ahead.
Thompson: Okay. And I can just control this; right? Okay. Again, Tamara
Thompson. Staff gave you a very brief overview, so I will do another quick one
just to clarify a few things. Again, the property is located at the northwest corner
of Amity and Eagle Roads and is approximately 40 acres. And that's highlighted
here for you. The property is bounded on three sides by public streets. The
street frontage on all three sides were roughly a square, so it's approximately
1,300 feet of frontage on each. Eagle Road is on the east and that is designated
as a principal arterial. Amity Road is to the south, which is designated as an
arterial. Montague is to the west, which is designated as a collector along our
frontage. It does change as it goes to the north, but our frontage is a collector.
The property to the north and west is the Messina Meadows Subdivision, also
known as Tuscany. That subdivision is zoned R-8 and has developed as single
family residential homes. And this -- this slide just shows the color. They are all
that R-8 there. Our proposal is for 24 acres, which is roughly 60 percent. That's
the area outlined in the green to R-8 and 16 acres, which is roughly 40 percent,
for the C-C, and that's the area outlined in blue. The closest existing residential
properties to the proposed grocery store is over 500 feet. So, I have got some
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January 17, 2017
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dimensions on there for you from -- from the grocery portion. The -- the
commercial pads on Eagle Road are closer, but those would be a less intense
use. So, the grocery portion is 500 feet away. Our applications with the City of
Meridian include a Comprehensive Plan amendment to the mixed use
community. Annexation from Ada county to the City of Meridian. A rezone in
accordance with the slide that I showed you before with the two areas , the R-8
and the C-C. In addition, we have a 14 lot -- which is 11 building lot preliminary
plat for the commercial center. Of this 3.5 acres will be dedicated to ACHD for
right of way with the -- with the new roads that we are proposing. The residential
portion, the platting for that is not included and will be processed at a separate
date. So, all we are including at this time is -- is what you see here with the
commercial portion. The master plan includes of grocery-anchored daily needs
center with restaurants, fuel, specialty retail, office, and pedestrian plazas. Two
new public roads are proposed. Mount Etna at Eagle Road -- and we are
working with the neighbors on changing the name. They would like that name
change, so it doesn't appear to be part of the subdivision. So, we will be working
with the neighbors and with Ada County Road naming committee on that final
name with final plat. And, then, a new road that we are proposing to be called
Belleeza Way, which would connect behind the grocery store onto Amity. A
traffic impact study was prepared by Kittleson & Associates. And, I'm sorry, I
started in with Councilman Cavener's question, so I didn't introduce everybody
else with me tonight. I also have Roger Collins with The Land Group. He's our --
he did the civil design. Eric Holzer with Albertson's is here tonight and John
Ringert with Kittleson & Associates is here to discuss any traffic items. I'm sorry.
Back to you -- so, we have a traffic study that was conducted by Kittleson &
Associates and it was conducted in accordance with ACHD policy. Additional
supplemental traffic analysis was submitted to ACHD in response to various
neighbor comments. To date the single biggest issue has been the connectivity
to the Tuscany neighborhood. My understanding is that regardless of the use,
whether it's residential or commercial, the connection to the -- to Montague is a
condition of both the City of Meridian and ACHD. To address this we have
changed our plan and we originally -- you can see our original -- original
preliminary plat as submitted was Mount Etna were it connected to Eagle Road
was a long straight shot and in meeting -- we had a couple different
neighborhood meetings with the neighbors and in addressing their concerns we
-- we revised our connection point and this is the one that ACHD approved also
is to make it more circuitous in that it wouldn't be just a long straight shot, but it
would -- and, then, it would connect in between two streets, so it connects to
Montague between Mount Etna and Santo Stefano, so that it's not perceived as -
- as for cut-through. Our traffic analysis concluded that all the study intersections
will operate at acceptable levels of service, with the exception of the Eagle and
Amity Road roundabout, and that's with or without our project and I think that's
important that even without the project in the future -- in the 2018 background
traffic that that intersection needs some assistance. To address these concerns
about traffic and circulation, we are proposing to widen the west side of Eagle
Road and to increase the roundabout to two lanes with the development. So,
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January 17, 2017
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again, with the commercial development we would do the roundabout
improvements, which is roughly four to five years ahead of what ACHD's current
work schedule is. This is approximately three million dollars of public
infrastructure improvements that we are proposing to do with the first phase of
the commercial development. Additionally, to address neighbor concerns, one of
the things that came up in the Planning and Zoning Commission was the -- was
Montague, which is the -- the road to the far west side. Currently that road is not
built -- built to its full width, so we are proposing with our first phase that we
would do the -- do the widening of Montague and the sidewalk on there to -- to
help with the pedestrian safety in that area. One item that has been extremely
important to us is the two right-in, right-out access points that we are proposing
into the center and I want to clarify that at the ACHD commission hearing we
weren't -- it wasn't approved with the preliminary plat, but it wasn't denied either.
They basically punted and they said we don't approve this with the preliminary
plat. We don't think that's the appropriate time to approve it. That we want to
have the City Council comments and, then, when we submit for design review
and the CZC, the Certificate of Zoning Compliance, at that time the development
plan goes back to ACHD and with the development plan is where they think it's
appropriate to -- to give those right-in, right-outs, not with the preliminary plat.
So, it wasn't -- I guess it's semantics, but we weren't denied. We weren't
approved, but we weren't denied either. It really was a -- it was a punt and
ACHD staff is in support of the right-in, right-outs. Our traffic analysis has
demonstrated a benefit and ACHD staff agrees with that. Their staff report states
that and it was something when Commissioner Baker with ACHD -- with the
ACHD commission, when she made her motion, she definitely made it clear that
when it comes back with a development plan that's when t hose accesses would
be reviewed. And so with that we are asking City Council for the waivers, so that
we can go back to City Council with our CZC and here I have some -- one of the
main -- we have a really nice pedestrian plaza at the -- at the corner by the
roundabout with some nice outdoor areas and without access into -- without
convenient access, the high quality tenants that we would like there are going to
be very difficult to -- to pull to the area. Those high quality tenants need
convenient access. It does improve the safety where one traveling south on
Eagle Road would have to turn right onto Mount Etna and then -- and, then, left
into the site. So, it's not exactly convenient and those left turns definitely aren't --
cause backup on those roads. So, I have John Ringert from Kittleson here. He
will give you some more background on that on -- on exactly his analysis and --
and the -- the benefits that those give to the center. And, then, I think you guys
have in your packet the ACHD memo from Christy Little after the ACHD
commission hearing where she's clarifying that they will look at those access
points. So, we have listened to the neighbors. We have modified our plan with
more -- with a more circuitous route to the connectivity and all those street and
buffer construction is typically required with development of that portion of the
project, we are going over 500 feet away from the commercial development and
we have agreed to widen Montague now and the added benefit of doing the
infrastructure improvements for the roundabout now and, again, with or without
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January 17, 2017
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the project those are needed. So, with -- we respectfully request your approval
tonight and I will stand for questions.
Bird: Council, any questions?
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Tamara, just -- I want to make sure that I heard correctly -- and maybe
we can talk to -- to Justin Lucas with ACHD later if need be, but the
recommendation from ACHD when they didn't approve or deny those two right-
ins and right-outs was to access the site off of -- what is it? Mount Etna and
Belleeza; is that accurate?
Thompson: Yeah. Mr. President, Councilman Cavener, that is correct.
Cavener: Thank you.
Bird: Any other questions? Thank you, Tamara.
Thompson: Thank you.
Bird: This is a public hearing. Individuals we will give three minutes. If you're
representing an homeowners association we will give you ten minutes. So, Mr.
Clerk, have we got some --
Coles: We do. We do, Mr. President. The first one on the list here is Steven
Stark, who signed up in favor and does wish to testify.
Stark: Hello.
Bird: If you would, please, state your name and address, please.
Stark: My name is Steven Stark and my wife and I own property at 2630 East
Amity Road. So, we are just -- just west of the development on Amity Road. We
are for the development overall. We joke that when our kids take our keys away
we can walk down to Albertson's and we think that Albertson's is a pretty good
neighbor. So, with the development of the residential in R-8 we are for this
development. Last time there was development around our property we lost our
irrigation for a season and a half. We get our irrigation right in the middle of this
development on the corner there off the Grimmett tap and everyone says they
can't take your water, but, you know, we bounced between the city and the
irrigation district and we never could really resolve losing our water for a year and
a half, so I guess what I would like to do is just be informed on when we are
going to -- if we are going to lose it during the watering season and if I had to
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January 17, 2017
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pump it be compensated for the water loss and the pump expense. So, that's all
I ask is contact name, number and the results of this.
Bird: Thank you. Any questions, Council? Thank you very much.
Stark: Thank you.
Coles: Next is Jason Davidson, signed up against and wishes to testify. Okay.
Warren Cays signed up against and wishes to testify.
Cays: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you. My name is Warren
Cays. I live at 2595 East Mount Etna Drive, Meridian. First I want you to know
that I joined several hundred other Tuscany residents that oppose this
commercial center at this location. I think this is a really poor location choice that
Planning and Zoning and this developer have decided on regardless of what,
excuse me, we as residents were told and what the City of Meridian future use
maps have shown us. A commercial center at this location will only contribute to
making South Eagle Road as congested as North Eagle Road. Second, if our
government and the developer are going to shove this down our throats -- and,
again, I join several hundred other residents that do not want any connectivity to
our subdivision except for walking or bike paths, a connecting road for vehicles
only adds more traffic into our residential neighborhoods, putting our children at
risk and our family's safety at risk. A connecting road is only necessary to keep
traffic off of an underbuilt Eagle Road and Amity Road as shown by what I
consider a phony traffic study bought and paid for by the developer Albertson's.
This is not for the good of the subdivision as we have been told over and over .
Our residents do not mind using an existing connector street, such as Zaldia
Drive, to get out to go shopping, nor would we to this center. We do that now.
Over 95 percent of all commercial developments in the City of Meridian and Ada
County do not allow commercial centers to connect directly to subdivisions. Do
not make our subdivision one of these exceptions . Third. Any zoning and
density approval should not be allowed above the R-8 recommendations for the
residential parcels. Fourth. If this project is approved, then, all construction
improvements on Montague should be required to be built in the first phase of
construction as the developer has now said that they would agree to . If you do
approve this proposal, then, we request that you do not allow any connecting
road from Eagle Road to be called Mount Etna Drive. I have already submitted
an application request to not allow Mount Etna Drive to be used and have been
told by the Ada county assessor's office that the City Council, City of Meridian,
makes that decision. So, I'm asking, please, that you do that. Lastly as our
elected officials representing us as taxpayers and voters and you are only voice
in this matter, we respectfully request that you reject this application. Thank you.
Bird: Any questions?
Cavener: Mr. President?
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January 17, 2017
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Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Cays, thanks for your testimony. You stated that the traffic study is
phony. That's a pretty bold accusation, I guess, to make. I'm just curious if you
can provide us with some information to support why you believe the traffic study
is phony.
Cays: The only thing I can provide, without having anticipated that question, is I
worked in construction for over 50 years. We built subdivisions all over and I
have never ever seen a traffic study that would show connecting a commercial
development like this to a subdivision with 1 ,500 residential homes and
approximately 3,000 cars, because everyone has two, that it would only impact --
for instance in their study Mount Etna Drive, 22 vehicle trips a day. Twenty-two
out of 3,000 cars. Now, that -- I don't know -- to them says no big deal, that won't
impact your residential streets. To me that is just nuts. There is no common
sense used to put a study together that says people that now have access
through the roads, through the subdivision, will only be 22. That's in their study.
That's where I get that from. That's why I make that up. Just personal
experience.
Cavener: Thank you.
Cays: Thank you.
Bird: Any other questions? Thank you, Mr. Cays.
Coles: Next is TLK. Signed up against, but does not wish to testify. Next
Suzanne Steenkolk. I don't know if I got that last name correct. Signed up
against and does wish to testify.
Steenkolk: Good evening, Council Members. I am S uzanne Steenkolk at 2448
East Mount Etna. Thank you for the opportunity to communicate my concerns
this evening, which are the proposed connection street and the zoning. I imagine
at these types of hearings you hear a lot about the safety of the children , but you
truly need to understand in this case it is a differentiator in our community as
compared to other neighborhoods. Siena Elementary School resides in our
neighborhood and is a walk zone and the school boundary map, which I have
this evening, shows that the vast majority of the 600 K through 5th grade
students that attend there are from our subdivision. It is our culture to see kids
out in the roads all of the time walking and going to school and also traveling
through the proposed street you saw on the map to get to the bus stops. Many
of these kids are going to cross through where this same connection street is
supposed to come in for our neighborhood and where the kids often play and
travel to the pool and a neighborhood park on a regular basis. Cascade
Transportation provided me with data that 160 students are assigned to the
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January 17, 2017
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Tuscany bus stop. So, that's 360 opportunities per day at the bus stops alone for
a safety incident to occur. Furthermore, the two stops with the highest volume
are immediately either side of this proposed property. Two blocks north and a
connection street is our neighborhood pool and a large city park where
everybody walks to with pets and strollers and kids all of the time and because
it's a city park sports teams can be practicing there, all in the spring and the fall
and additional concern I personally have is the increased crime with a
commercial connection into an upscale neighborhood. In Tuscany alone in the
last six months a resident had her car stolen out of he r driveway while she was
warming it up in the morning. Another random incident -- a car was stolen across
town and dumped into Mount Etna and -- totally randomly and we have had
numerous occasions of car break-ins, trespassers trying to get in gates and
packages being stolen off doorsteps. None of this occurred in the subdivision
that I moved to that I lived in prior to Tuscany and I just really feel very concerned
about a commercial property inviting strangers into our neighborhood . That's not
needed. Most of us are okay with a bike path or a walking path, but a connection
street where traffic is going to come into our neighborhood off of Eagle Road and
in and out of the commercial property is really a concern. Regarding zoning,
both of my immediate neighbors just sold their homes and the one smaller home
sold for 315,000 and another is listed for 515 . So, neighboring development
should be in alignment with existing homes and not take a big leap to R-15, multi-
level housing. I asked you to, please, approve P&Z's recommendation for R-8 in
both -- in Parcel A and B. The setbacks in the Montague Street improvements
that were proposed tonight. And, additionally, ask you to vet out a requirement
for very dense landscape between the property and the set backs, so there is an
obvious distinction between Firenze Plaza and Tuscany and also to help cut
down on the commercial noise. I don't know if you saw it, but a few weeks ago
the Idaho Statesman featured a story regarding our residents ' concerns. What a
great outcome it would be for there to be a follow-up story that communicates
how the process proved its way out. The city, working with the residents, and the
developers to come to an acceptable end result for all of us. You have the ability
to ensure this development is safe and it is a good neighbor to us, which includes
for most of us no connection and R-8 zoning. Please support us. Thank you for
your time and consideration.
Bird: Any questions? Thank you very much.
Coles: Next is Missy Tucker. Signed up against, but did not indicate whether or
not she wished to testify. Did not wish to testify. Next is Dan Tucker signed up
against, but did not indicate. Did not wish to testify. Sean Peterson signed up
against and does wish to testif y.
Peterson: Good evening. Sean Peterson. I live at 2821 East Fratello Street up
in the upper left-hand corner of the map that you're looking at right now. I'm here
to -- against this proposal. The first thing I'd like to talk about is Eagle Road.
Right now Eagle Road, the two lanes with a turn lane in the middle, we already
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January 17, 2017
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have -- we are already having traffic issues at this point just with the residents
and with this new project -- I mean this is a significant development. Traffic is
going to increase significantly on Eagle Road. I know that the plan in a few years
is to widen that to four lanes. I don't understand what we are in a hurry for right
now to get this project in place before the infrastructure is already setup. I can
see on the weekends when we have sporting events down to the south of us off
of -- I think it's Lake Hazel and Eagle Road. Traffic there at that intersection here
at Amity and Eagle backs up all the way past Zaldia subdivision, which -- or
Zaldia Road, which isn't even on the map there to the north. So, what I'm asking
is -- even further to the north. There. That's -- it backs up quite a ways. So, I
think the infrastructure needs to be put in place before a project of this magnitude
is put in in the first place. The second concern that I have is at the -- at the north
end there you see South Burgo Road. I live adjacent to South Burgo Road there.
If -- I know we are not talking about the other two land sections where the
proposal for R-8 is, but if we do not have the infrastructure in place at South
Eagle and we have traffic backing up, folks that are coming in off of Zaldia -- folks
will start cutting through the Tuscany Subdivision and go through Zaldia and,
then, come down Burgo and into that -- into that commercial development and it's
going to be cutting right across our pool and there is -- it's kind of a -- it's not a
blind corner, but it's still a corner and with all the trees and everything there -- I
mean it's going to be really hard for folks to see all the kids that are traveling --
going back and forth between the streets, so, you know, change is inevitable and
I know change is really hard, but I think we really need to use some good
common sense on this and make sure the infrastructure is in place befo re a
project of this magnitude is approved. That's all I have. Thank you.
Bird: Any questions?
Cavener: Mr. President.
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Appreciate you giving your testimony. Can you -- you said something
that caught my ear about vehicles in traveling through in front of your pool and
you made it sound like the more vehicles are going to make what is already a
dangerous area even more dangerous? I mean that's kind of what I heard. I just
wanted to give you an opportunity to clarify.
Peterson: Sure.
Cavener: If you already feel that an area in your neighbor is dangerous and -- I'd
love to hear what -- as a neighbor, who is in a homeowners association, what
you're doing to address that, because if there is already an issue, we should be
working towards that as well.
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January 17, 2017
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Peterson: Sure, City Councilman Cavener. No, I don't feel like it's a danger right
now, because we have a bunch of Tuscany residents that are the only ones that
are driving into Zaldia right now and I think that they have a little more
appreciation for their fellow subdivision ites and they drive slowly, but if this new
development comes in that trap -- that travel that's going to come off of Zaldia
into Burgo -- people are going to cut through our subdivision. You can see it --
let's see. Yeah, you can see it here now where it says Messina Meadows. You
can see if traffic is backed up along Eagle Road , people are going to cut through
Zaldia and go down into Burgo and it's going to go right by that pool and I
guarantee that's going to happen, because we are not going to have that
infrastructure in place for quite a few more years and we are already seeing
traffic issues. I mean a development of this magnitude is going to bring
significant traffic into that area.
Cavener: Thank you for your clarification. I thank you, Josh, for throwing up the
slide.
Bird: Okay. Any other questions? Thank you very much.
Coles: Andrew Gardner signed up against and wishes to testify.
Gardner: Hello. My name is Andrew Gardner and I’m a seventh grader at
Victory Middle School and I live at 2571 East Taormina Drive. I moved here in
Meridian in October of 2014. At that time I didn't have any friends and so I just
did the Mayor's walk challenge, because there was nothing else to do and I
started to really like it and was impressed that how Mayor de Weerd was there
walking with us to encourage myself and a lot of students to do it. I can tell that
she has a genuine desire to affect the lives of the students there. Since that time
I have joined the cross-country team and appreciate your encouragement. I
stand by the decision put into place -- I stand by this decision as being put in
place -- just a second. About this commercial development as I have two little
brothers who, you know, right now are running around as well and they want --
and the traffic going to be put in place in this commercial development
connecting to our neighborhood, their route will no longer be safe and since this
is a walk zone it can be very dangerous. Biggest concern is the bus stop that I
get on at, which is at the corner of Montague and Amity. First of all, Taormina
doesn't even have a finished sidewalk on one side of the road and tons of kids
are crossing streets back and forth just to get to the bus. Then there are a bunch
of kids that walk down once again in the dark to get to the stop in the morning.
The street is very narrow and not safe and there are cars that almost hit curbs or
get off the edge. There are 30 kids there every morning and -- and some kids
were very close to getting hit. The street is not built to be a connecting the street
to a major thoroughfare of traffic. Also at the beginning of the year the buses
were already overcrowded and having up to almost four kids riding in a seat.
This isn't even safe on the bus and more kids on the corner with the added
residential developments in higher density is an extreme danger. Our concerns
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January 17, 2017
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is the safety of the children again. Like everybody had experienced, this
neighborhood is still safe to ride my bike and run. I love this neighborhood and
be very upset if it is changed, as I hear people that want to move out if this
happens. I just really got settled here and can't imagine what that would do to
my relationships with my friends. We like the quiet community and we chose to
move here for that reason.
Bird: Thank you. Any questions for the young man? Thank you for coming up
and testifying.
Cavener: Well done.
Coles: Next is Mike Boily I think. Signed up against and wishes to testify.
Boily: Good evening. My name is Mike Boily. My finance e and I live at 4289
South Burgo Way. I want to talk about the pool on Zaldia real quick. As he
blows this up you can see that there is a pool right there on the corner. Currently
it is pretty safe, Mr. Cavener. However, at 9:00 o'clock in the morning during a
hot summer day the pool is already full. A lot of people leave for work at 7:30,
7:45, and go to work. A lot of traffic comes down Zaldia, especially from the
other parts of the subdivision, because of the backup on Eagle Road that's
already there. When you also look at this -- I'm the third house in from Zaldia
across from the pool. I'm against this in regards to letting anything come into our
subdivision or connect into our subdivision, because that will be a cut through if
Burgo goes through, which was initially proposed, which The Land Group did not
tell you about tonight. They're only talking about the original -- the original
proposal did show Burgo going through. So, in regards to that R-8, please, keep
it at R-8. Please do not let anything go through into our subdivision, whether it
be on Burgo or even over off of Montague. Currently this winter alone there have
been four accidents on Zaldia at Burgo and at Montague. The most recent was
last week where there were six Meridian police cars there arresting somebody.
So, don't know the instance as to what was going on there , however, crime -- we
talked about people dumping cars in our subdivision, cars being stolen, predators
walking around in backyards on video camera -- it's all out there. We want to
keep our subdivision safe. We want to keep our children safe. At the corner of
Zaldia and Eagle Road there is two bus stops that happen right there. Currently
the road is stopped when the bus is there. They stop in the middle of the road.
Pick up over 80 kids at that bus stop alone. They move up north on Eagle Road
at the other main entrance and there is another bus stop up there for another 40,
50 kids. Then you pick up the ones over off Amity. Eagle Road is atrocious right
now with all the snow and ice. Bus stop kids trying to get across -- I mean it
speaks for itself. It's atrocious. This doesn't need to happen right now. They are
also only talking about expanding from the edge of our subdivision to the corner
of Amity as far as the widening on the west side. So, the whole thing ends doing
the roundabout, not the whole thing is going to be expanded. So, in regards to --
so, that's pluses. The pool. The residents. The kids. If you go all the way up
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January 17, 2017
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Montague to the north, that's where Sienna school is. Every one of these kids is
in a walk zone. I asked you to make the right decision and help protect our
residential area. Thank you.
Bird: Any questions?
Coles: Next is Karena Gardner signed up against, but does not wish to testify.
Bill Humphries signed up against and does wish to testify.
Humphries: Hi. My name is Bill Humphries. I live at 2725 East Mount Etna
Drive in the Tuscany Subdivision. I wrote down a note to start off with with
apathy. I just want you to know that I don't feel the zeal quite as much in this
meeting as I have seen in the past few meetings. I feel like we are getting
beaten down with the process of -- we have had numerous meetings with the
developers, with ACHD, with the Planning and Zoning, now we are in front of
you. There is a less of attendance today to some -- yeah, to some extent. So, I
just point that out to you. And -- and it's hard to hear yourself say the same thing
for four different times. So, just -- just for some context. I want to first start off
with the road. I live on Mount Etna. That was a terrible idea, in my opinion, to
put a straight shot right to Eagle and -- and I still believe -- I have had this
conversation in the past meetings, so I will bring it up that Mount Etna is a short
cut for our subdivision and, then, also for Locust Grove. There -- my wife uses it
to go out to Locust Grove and to Victory. If you go that way and she's timed it --
if you go out Montague and, then, you go what everyone says would be the
traditional way, Amity out to the main roads, it's actually shorter to cut through
and so I still do worry about people cutting through from Locust Grove and
Victory. That area. They are coming up to -- to Albertson's. I am grateful and I
hope it does happen that the name will change. It's a small thing, but I think it
actually might do something if someone doesn't realize it's the same street and
may not think it goes through. Same with the curve. I -- I do want to emphasize
the number of kids that's been brought up, but even on Mount Etna alone there is
-- there is probably around a hundred kids on one street with lots of basketball
being played in the street and stuff like that. Next I want to talk about the zoning.
I think that's probably one of the other biggest concerns and I was grateful that
the Planning and Zoning Commission has recommended to you to keep it at R-8
and I -- I ask that that happen. I don't understand R-15 whatsoever in this type of
area. We are not an urban setting. It's all in -- all of Meridian -- which part of
Meridian is going to be the most urban the soonest. It's not going to be south
Meridian. It's going to be north and other parts of Meridian first, so I don't
understand this idea of putting apartments or high density there and so I would
ask even further from the R-8, it's my understanding the R-8 you can still have
attached dwellings as long as it met the number of dwellings. I would ask that
you add another restriction to make them detached, because not just the idea
that we are in a rural area right now, but also Tuscany is a nice neighborhood as
you have heard and the homes are selling for pretty high and, then, you're going
to put something within 1,500 feet of the -- of a 400, 500 thousand dollar home
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January 17, 2017
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you're going to put basically duplexes. I would ask that you wouldn't allow that
and -- and we do have -- we do have patio homes, which are detached and
everything and I think that would be an acceptable thing that fit s within the R-8. I
also want to bring up the proposed landscaping. Someone brought up the idea
of making a dense landscaping on the -- at least the west side of the commercial
development. I know there is already trees planned, but I would ask that you
make those as robust as possible, so that there is a clear block or buffer area
between residential and commercial if we have to have it connected, which I
opposed it, but if that's the way you go, then, please, at least make it as least
magnitude of the field as possible. I do think it's a good idea to have those drive
aisle connections. I don't understand why those weren't allowed. Those are the
right way -- the right-out only and the right-in only. That makes sense, because
otherwise to me the -- what's going to be changed, the Mount Etna name that
connects to Amity, if the people can't leave and a short way of just taking a right,
that's just going to back up traffic on there and , then, there is a possibility that
people do cut through. So, I think that right-in, right-out only makes a lot of
sense.
Bird: Sir, would you wrap up. Your time is up.
Humphries: Yes. The last thing I would say is just to consider South Eagle -- are
we going to make it North Eagle and whatever you decide , please, put that in
context, because I think North Eagle is kind of a mess. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you.
Palmer: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. -- Bill, got a question for you.
Palmer: Yeah. Just to kind of put everything in context, I just want to -- your
house is actually an R-8 zone, to give you an idea of what your future neighbors
may be like.
Humphries: My understanding -- or maybe I'm incorrect, but my understanding
that the minimum you could have in an R-8 still could be detached -- or could be
attached dwellings and maybe I'm wrong on that, but if that is the case, then, I
would ask that that be a restriction that you can't have dwellings attached, that
every dwelling has to be detached. If that's even available.
Palmer: Thanks.
Humphries: Thank you.
Coles: Next is Ken Mutell signed up against and wishes to testify.
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January 17, 2017
Page 19 of 67
Mutell: Ken Mutell. 2747 East Mount Etna Drive. I'd like to request ten minutes
tonight as the HOA representative. Warren Cays, who is the treasurer of the
Tuscany HOA is allowing me his ten minutes. He only spoke for three, if that's
acceptable.
Bird: You bet.
Mutell: Thank you. Good evening, Council Members. First, before I begin
addressing these issues -- excuse me -- the issues surrounding Firenze Plaza,
I'd like to express my thanks to all of you for the city's response to the recent
winter storms. I know it's been a trying time for everybody and I do want to
express my gratitude for the efforts that have been put forth. Before I talk
specifically about Firenze Center I'd like to talk briefly about the entire process
that our residents and I have gone through over the past few months. As
residents it's a daunting ordeal to understand the process, organize a group and
effectively present our position to the various commissions. During the journey
we have two competing voices we kept hearing. First the city and ACH staff --
ACHD staff kept saying trust the process. The second is a surprising number of
e-mails sent to me from people who previously appeared before the various
commissions who said don't trust the process, they won't listen and their minds
are already made up. I think what I have learned by going through this effort that
I lean toward the trust the process. But I believe the process can be improved.
To that end I will be sending a letter to the Mayor in the next several weeks my
thoughts and suggestions on how perhaps it can improved. As an example of
one of those suggestions, you have a great document titled Putting Your Best
Foot Forward at Public Hearing. Unfortunately, it's not available on the city's
website. At least through the menu system. It's only out there as an archive.
You can only find it if you happen to know the name of it and you can go looking
for it. That document actually describes the process and , unfortunately, the
residents or the members don't get to see the process if you can't see that
document. So, kind of a flaw.
Bird: We will take care of that.
Mutell: I do want to thank publicly Machelle Hill at this time for her assistance
during this process. She went above and beyond what anybody should have
done in explaining the process to us, helping us with questions and just even
bringing up things we hadn't yet thought of. I think she's a credit to the city and I
do want to make sure that you all are aware of that. Just an outstanding
individual. Finally, I want to bring up one last item of -- before I get to the Firenze
Plaza, because I believe it's true of all the worries, the anger and the frustration s
expressed by our residents over the past commission meetings and that item is
the future land use plan and it's interpretation by the various commissions and by
the residents. Decisions by residents to move to Tuscany were based in part on
the future land use plan that said it was an area planned for low density
residential development. We treated this map as though it was just that, a map
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January 17, 2017
Page 20 of 67
of how development would occur. We are intelligent adults making the most
expensive investment of our lives and that is our homes. Understanding our
children's safety and well-being is paramount to this purchase. We would never
go ahead with this investment without understanding what would be built in the
huge vacant property adjacent to Tuscany. Based on the map we were confident
it would be single family homes. The fact that a commercial retail center was to
be built on that probably was an unwelcome surprise to us. Suddenly the map
seemed much more flexible than we thought it was. Imagine our further surprise
when we appeared before ACHD commission and Commissioner Baker said she
believes that there should be commercial retail development every square mile .
Clearly the future land use plan doesn't show that also . Finally when we
appeared before P&Z commission we learned that that section of the map, the
Firenze Plaza will occupy was zoned back in the early 1990s showing low
density residential and has not been updated since. I believe the fundamental
cause of all the anxiety is how the two sides view this document. Neither is
necessarily right or wrong in the interpretation, just different. It's the fact that
both sides could view it so differently that is the issue. I believe that some type of
wording must be added to that map to avoid the confusion that 's occurred in our
instance and I'm sure that it has occurred in the past and still more to come.
Without something to clarify the future land use plan in the eyes of all users
needless frustrations will continue to be created. As a rapidly growing area the
creation of these misperceptions can only tarnished the reputation of the area in
the future. I don't think it's feasible that every parcel is identified as the future
use, but perhaps an overlay to the map in underdeveloped areas could be put
out there. Some type of commentary on infill potential or existing type situations
like we found ourselves in, because we certainly never would have expected R-
15 in -- in that type of area, in addition to a commercial property. In showing the
map with zoning from the early 1990s, knowing that it's not likely that's the way
the area is going to develop is just misleading to newcomers to the area . So, I
believe that if our residents had known that a commercial retail development was
possible on that location in question when they bought their homes, much of the
frustration would have been avoided . Whether we were right or wrong in how we
viewed this map is really not relevant. The fact that reasonable adults could
come to the conclusion we did and still have a commercial plaza built on that site
is the issue. Onto Firenze Plaza. For residents there has been one overriding
goal in our opposition to Firenze Plaza and that is the safety of our children. We
presented two petitions signed by 285 residents to the Mayor and City Council
expressing our concerns. I personally have built a website that has been used
by the residents to keep them informed. I have driven to the TV stations in town,
the newspapers, ACHD, the city to drop off petitions and what have you. Been
up here a number of times and met with staff to try to get a better understanding
of just what's going on. My frustrations and concerns are well on record at this
point. So, I'm not going to rehash those. I will say at this point I think -- if we
cannot get the streets stopped from going through that we have an acceptable
though not optimal solution before us from Planning and Zoning. The
recommendation -- the zoning of all the residential parcels to R-8 is critical to us
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January 17, 2017
Page 21 of 67
as residents. One of our main objections was the concern that we would have
apartments, multi-family dwellings, attached housing on that site. With R-8 that
eliminates that situation and that's critical to us. Also the improvements to
Montague in phase one is also extremely important and it's good to hear that the
applicant has agreed to do that. This directly impacts the safety of the children,
which has always, again, been our number one concern. The P&Z's
recommended solution get us most of the way there. However, we believe that
there is some additional modifications that would be helpful. First, we'd like to
see the name changed in the segment of the road from Eagle to Montague from
Mount Etna Drive to either Lira Drive, Corsica Drive or Bellagio Drive or, frankly,
anything other than an existing road name in Tuscany. Using an existing
Tuscany Road name identifies the street as a cut-through. Second, we would
like to see something in a development agreement that we keep Firenze Plaza in
line esthetically with Tuscany. We would hate to see tenants such as Payday
lenders, pawn shops, liquor stores, tobacco stores, et cetera, become part of the
neighborhood. Lighting is also a concern for us. A ban on electric billboards,
reader boards, would also be helpful. Strong controls on light pollution, but with
sufficient lighting to avoid having places where mischief can begin is also
important. The general character of Eagle and Amity Roads as it relates to
signage is also of concern to us. We would hate to see these roads lined with
portable signs, temporary banners, and other items that detract from a clean
appearance. Finally, we continue to believe that the traffic study conducted for
this project is deeply flawed and that it underrepresents the impact the traffic will
have on Tuscany and, thus, the danger posed to the children in our
neighborhood. Having taken a shot at this with ACHD and the Planning and
Zoning Commission without success, I will try one more time tonight to ask that
no roads be allowed to connect Firenze to the Tuscan y Subdivision. If you could
add any -- or preferably all of the three major items I have just reviewed, the
street name change, control of the character for Firenze Plaza and the
elimination of a connection between Tuscany and Firenze the residents of
Tuscany would be grateful. I'd like to thank the members of the Planning and
Zoning Commission for listening to our residents, explaining some of the
background in more depth, understanding our concerns and making a number of
recommendations that dramatically improved our feelings towards Firenze Plaza.
I'd also like to thank the City Council for listening to us this evening and reading
the many, many comments provided to you in advance of this meeting. I for one
did not subscribe to the -- they won't listen to you, that their minds are made up
camp. However, if you overturn the Planning and Zoning Commission's
recommendations I just may have to take that back. Thank you.
Bird: Any questions?
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
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January 17, 2017
Page 22 of 67
Cavener: On the -- for the residents, this gentleman is speaking in representing
your HOA. I would say is the exception, not the rule. I think a lot of us deal with
the homeowners associations all the time and they are contentious and they are
bitter and they are nasty and I just appreciate you bringing your thoughts and
your comments and I think you're doing a great job of representing your
neighborhood. If you want to move a couple neighborhoods to the west we
would love to have you on our HOA.
Mutell: I may.
Coles: Next is Kathleen Gallagher signed up against and wishes to testify.
Gallagher: My name is Kathleen Gallagher. I live in 2747 East Mount Etna
Road. It was dark and stormy night. But, actually, that was the ACHD meeting.
Sorry. City Council Members, this is the first time you are hearing about this
proposal, but we have been living with the idea for months and it is not what we
envisioned for our neighborhood. We purchased our homes, as everyone does,
with safety and security in mind. We did our homework, investigating the empty
parcel at the northwest corner of Eagle and Amity. According to the
Comprehensive Plan future land use map, the property was supposed to be low
density residential. The same as Tuscany. The requests put before you this
evening is to change the low density residential to mixed -use community to allow
for an Albertson's and other commercial and retail establishments. I ask you to
disallow that change. Failing that, I ask that you waive the requirement and do
not allow any through streets from Firenze Plaza into the Tuscany development .
It is a simple matter for residents of Tuscany to drive to Firenze Plaza . We would
take a right turn out of Zaldia, drive one block down Eagle and turn into the plaza.
Coming home we take a right turn onto Amity, travel half a block to Montague
and make another right turn. Zaldia and Montague are both collector roads
within Tuscany. A through street from Firenze Plaza into Tuscany will become
another collector road. Unlike the other collector roads in Tuscany, though,
whoever uses this road into Tuscany will forge their way through local streets
with residential homes and driveways. That extra traffic poses the danger to the
children of Tuscany. I ask you not to allow it. I am not opposed to change. I am
opposed to having the rug pulled out from under me after making a well -
considered decision to purchase a home. I am not opposed to Albertson's. I
think they would be a good neighbor. I am opposed to a commercial
development which would operate from 5:00 a.m. to 1:00 a.m. with its
concomitant noise and light pollution. I think a better place to locate that is two
miles west on the Meridian Road commercial corridor. I am opposed to multi-
family housing, including apartments, for which Planning and Zoning staff will
advocate if this development is approved. I thank you for your time.
Bird: Thank you. Any questions, Council? Thank you very much. We didn't bite
you either.
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January 17, 2017
Page 23 of 67
Coles: Next is Ann Stephens signed up against and wishes to testify.
Stephens: Good evening, Mr. President and Members of the Council. My name
is Ann Stephens and I live at 4686 South Stromboli Place in Tuscany
Subdivision. When we purchased our property in Tuscany to build our home last
year we knew that the farmland on the east side of Montague Way would
eventually have homes on it, since the Comprehensive Plan use map showed
low density residential. We did not anticipate that we would be rezoned mixed-
use community, which includes commercial and high-density housing or we
would have selected to build elsewhere. I have lived long enough to know that
change happens and I can adapt to change, but this is a major change to the
country atmosphere we anticipated we could enjoy. We selected Tuscany, as
did many other residents, to build our home because it's a safe quiet residential
area with great walking and biking paths, parks, swimming pools and not much
traffic other than our Tuscany residents. It is a safe place for children to play.
Our house backs up to Montague Way. So, my concerns are based on the
proximity of the proposed new development to our home . Residential zoning is a
major concern for me. I would ask that the parcel to the west behind the
commercial area and Montague Way be zoned R-8, so it be limited to single-
family dwellings in keeping with the intent of the Comprehensive Plan use map
that Tuscany residents used as a guide when buying or building our homes in the
Tuscany Subdivision. I also support the robust landscaping on the west side of
Montague Way, in addition to the street improvements, the sidewalks, the curbs
and gutters, in the first phase of the development. Thank you for listening to our
concerns and these are the points I'd like you to consider before making your
decision. Thank you.
Bird: Council, any questions? Thank you.
Coles: Rob and Julie Guidebush signed up against, but do not wish to testify.
Tom Cook signed up as neutral and did not wish to testify. Jill Cook signed up as
neutral and does not wish to testify. Dale Burke signed up against and does not
wish to testify. John Wadsworth signed up as neutral and does not wish to
testify. Deanna Johnson signed up against and does wish to testify.
Johnson: Hi. My name is Deanna Johnson and I live at 4742 South Stromboli
Place. So, my house is -- basically my backyard is the corner of Amity and
Montague. So, we are right on that corner. So, this development does affect us
a lot, because we are right there and I don't agree, because I don't feel that
putting a shopping center there is appropriate. I am one of those that -- we have
been in our house not even ten months. This time last year is when we were
looking to move and we were doing research and we knew as an open field what
is this going to become. Same thing as everyone else, we were told it was going
to be more homes like ours. So, we didn't worry about it very much. So, it was
kind of a shocker when only a couple months after moving in last spring when we
got the invitations to the meeting saying, guess what, we are going to put a store
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over there and it was kind of shocking. I have been to some of the last meetings
and, you know, it -- there are a lot less people here today, because I think same
thing, we have felt like the process is kind of tiring, but I do -- having said that I
don't think it's a good idea -- there are things that I would like to agree with that
people have stated tonight and one of those is to keep the R-8. That would
greatly impact my home and that's a concern that we have for our home values,
since we just moved in there and put a great deal of money down on our home.
We feel that with -- in the middle of Tuscany we have the Village, which are patio
homes. They are really nice patio homes and something like that being put
behind us would be something that would be -- be great I think, because the
people that would buy those kinds of homes, those -- those patio home would
want to walk to the store and I think that they would be very successful with that.
Part of the fear I think that we have is when those parcels are sold off to
developers to develop them I just hope that they will -- I don't know how the
process works entirely, but they will be able to be kept R-8 and we don't have to
go through this process again of somebody trying to change it. I don't know how
it works, but I would hope that it would be -- even after it's sold off be able to
keep the R-8. Montague is a huge concern, because it's one of the sides of our
back fence. It is not a safe street right now at all and I have children, I will not
allow my children as of now to walk to school partly because we are the farthest
point from the school. It is all the way north of us, but because that street is
unfinished and it's not wide enough, I don't feel that it is a safe passage now and
to have all that other traffic I just feel it will be very unsafe for the -- hundreds of
children who you see going up Montague all the way to the school in the morning
and also there is a bus stop on our back corner of our fence. We see those kids
out there in the dark in the morning and it's very scary, especially in the winter
like this, that you just hope kids don't end up getting hurt , because there isn't
quite a safe place for them to stand to wait for the bus. So, I feel that taking care
of Montague and finishing it off is a must for the safety of the children and our
neighborhood and I also agree that with what was been said tonight as far as the
ordinances that need to be in place for this -- this plaza to go in as far as lights
and sounds and noise, the very dense landscaping along Montague and inside
that development I think need to be there. I don't want to really look out my
window and see the back of a grocery store. I know eventually there will be other
things there, but I would prefer to just have it nice and pretty as soon as possible.
So, again, I just would like to ask you to really make sure that that R-8 stays in
place, that Montague also stay -- be made widened and safe for the children and
that we have rules in place to keep the development as nice as the
neighborhoods around it. Thank you.
Bird: Any questions, Council? Thank you.
Coles: Birdie Johnson signed up against and does not wish to testify. Kallie
Komoda signed up against and does not wish to testify. Richard Gardner signed
up against and does wish to testify.
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Gardner: Thank you, President and Council Members. Richard Gardner at 2571
Taormina Drive. I wanted to say first of all we have had a lot of interaction with
the developer and the other applicant members here and really appreciate the
consideration they have given. I think they have done truly as much as they can
to try to accommodate the concerns of the residents . Where I fall personally on
this is I don't think there is any way that they can accommodate all of the
concerns without simply scrapping the project, because I don't think this site was
designed for commercial use. I think commercial use is incompatible with the
way that it's currently been set up. At Amity and Eagle you have a roundabout
that allows for continuous flow traffic, which I think is a -- I think it's a great thing.
I think it allows traffic to get through there. By putting a grocery store and other
commercial at that corner you're really changing the purpose of Amity and Eagle
Road to now providing commercial access and my concern is especially with the
two new intersections and seeking a waiver to get those so close there, you can't
really put in a light that close to a roundabout, but if you don't have a light I think
it's a matter of time before the traffic trying to turn left onto Eagle really becomes
a problem. So, that's really my main concern about putting commercial here. I
think -- I think it simply doesn't fit. When this came before ACHD I think their
view of it was that they weren't -- it wasn't their job to decide whether commercial
was appropriate or not. They were taking a view of it's going to happen here is
how we would do the roads and at the Planning and Zoning Commission I guess
I felt like they kind of followed the lead of ACHD and said, well, they approved
this, so we will, too. At this point, again, I would be opposed to any commercial
development there. If it is going to happen I think we have made some good
strides. I think keeping it R-8 is a great step. I would encourage you to add a
restriction in a development agreement that that would include no detached --
sorry -- no attached housing, which the R-8 might otherwise allow. I was also
heartened to see the agreement to finish out Montague at the outset , at the
beginning of the first phase, rather than waiting until later. I think that gives
residents some assurances that there won't be future connections later on and it
resolved some of the concerns about the bus stops there and whatnot. I would
like to see maybe some controls on the uses of the commercial property like Ken
Mutell mentioned. A pawn shop doesn't really seem like a neighborhood type of
commercial use. And, then, finally about the connection of a road. Many of my
fellow residents feel like there should be no connection at all and I'm really torn
about that. I don't see that that solves the problem. I think if you're going to have
commercial there it creates an issue regardless of whether you have a
connection or not and I will say rather than going straight through -- I recognize
my time is out. Rather than going straight through I was very much appreciative
of changing the connection point. So, thank you for doing that.
Bird: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you very much.
Coles: Justice Walcott signed up against and wishes to testify.
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Walcott: Thanks, everyone, for your time and the service you guys do for the
community. I appreciate your work and the time commitments that you guys
make, so first off there I appreciate that. As I stated, I'm against it --
Bird: Sir, could you state your name and address.
Walcott: Justice Walcott. 2514 Mount Etna.
Bird: Thank you.
Walcott: I am against the proposal as it sits now, mainly due to the traffic issue.
I don't know if you guys had a chance -- it's a very long report and I didn't -- I'm
not an expert of it, so I don’t know all the ins and outs of the traffic study, but I did
read it a little bit and the theme I took from that traffic study was Eagle Road is
not ready for it and as such they wanted to turn Mount Etna into, as stated, a
commercial thoroughfare, which living on Mount Etna and having four kids is a
major concern of mine and I don't think the jog up and around stops the traffic
cutting through. I think it adds two more blind spots. I think it adds an additional
left turn that people will be making to take a left and, then, to turn right and to go
into Mount Etna and as we talked about left turns are major issues, I don't
understand why there is no -- why we are not going to allow right turns in and
out of the -- of the commercial development, but yet you want to add a left turn
onto Eagle Road from Mount Etna, it's just -- there has been too many changes
and adjustments and things just don't seem to make sense . You think about --
the other thing on the -- on the road study was there was so many exceptions to
the -- I don't know if master plan is the right word for Eagle Road , but there was
all kinds of exceptions made to allow this -- to allow this commercial to be put into
and to fit into there. So, along with not being ready for it and not having the
infrastructure for it, there is too many exceptions made to, you know, ends and
outs in relationship to the distance from a major intersection . Even today the
developer representative said, hey, we have concerns with the traffic backing up
on Mount Etna if they were taking a left to go into the grocery store. So, they
have concerns with the traffic. We have concerns with the traffic. We are putting
that on our -- that concern and we are going to force it through -- force it through
and put kids at risk. That -- that's my major concern with it. I do believe that the
20 additional cars a day is -- is not a good estimate. I think the additional -- the
traffic on -- if you're heading east on Amity trying to take a left into the subdivision
or even on Montague -- Montague will turn into a hassle, so people will cut
through the other subdivisions, get onto Mount Etna or DaVinci and cut through
the neighborhood as well. So, those are some of my concerns. Also going back
to the pool -- the swimming pool area. One thing to keep in mind on that is it's a -
- it's a pretty narrow road now and when they talk ed about people going to the
swimming pools, that becomes a one lane road, because you have traffic parked
on each side of the road, even to the point that people are putting signs on their
mailboxes saying please don't park in front of my driveway. So, that's another
issue that -- that I have, because though that's going into the R-8 it's going to get
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connected into the rest of the commercial. I just -- I just don't think the
neighborhood is ready for commercial. I don't think that area of Meridian is ready
for commercial.
Bird: Any questions?
Cavener: I have one, Mr. President.
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. -- is it Wincott?
Walcott: Walcott.
Cavener: Walcott. Sorry. You provided some -- some testimony just real briefly
that -- is it Tusa where the pool is? That it becomes a one lane road because
people are parking their vehicles --
Walcott: Yes. People park on both --
Cavener: -- people who live in the neighborhood drive their vehicle to the pool.
Walcott: Yes. And so they will be lined up both sides. I mean you go there in
the summer and -- but some have their mailbox or posted do not park in front of
my mailbox or driveway.
Cavener: I appreciate that. Thank you for the clarification.
Coles: Romeo Gervais signed up against and wishes to testify.
Gervais: Good evening. Romeo Gervais. 3019 East Fratello Street. Just a
couple of things I wanted to talk a little bit about the project. I think one of the
key things is the density. The Planning Commission did make a nice move there
to reduce the density from that R-15 zoning to the R-8 zoning. With that R-8
zoning, though, there is uses permitted such as duplexes and single-family
attached and single-family detached. The other thing that I would encourage you
guys to do with the zoning that the Planning Commission did it -- did do is they
attached the site-specific concept plan and they said that development needs to
be in substantial compliance with the site specific concept plan that the developer
presented, which does provide some assurances with regards to lot sizes and
some of the single-family detached, single-family attached requirement. So, I
would ask you to do that as well. The other thing with street connectivity
certainly I advocate, too, for that and not straight through Mount Etna
connection, but we also need to consider Burgo Way and how that would
connect in. Obviously, that's a future phase of development that's not included
right now with that single family development, but I would encourage that that
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January 17, 2017
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connection be looked at or be conditioned as well, so that it's not just a straight
cut-through traffic, whether it be pool traffic or whether it be traffic using the
roadway to get to the commercial development and those are the big asks that I
would have for you is those couple of things. And, then, like I say, the big -- the
big thing is keeping that R-8 zoning and, then, keeping some of the provisions of
the site-specific concept plan that they have. So, thank you for your time.
Bird: Any questions?
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Gervais, you touched on Burgo Way and --
Gervais: Yes.
Cavener: -- I'm just hoping that you can clarify for me where Burgo Way ends?
We talked about this in a meeting a few months ago in my neighborhood where
there was a street that was going to go through there was a sign that informed
me that this street will be extended in the future. I can't see from our map if -- if --
if it has that on there or --
Garvais: You know, there is -- I don't know if -- there is a type three barricade
there. I don't know that there is additional signage on there. I can't remember
that for sure. But certainly I would anticipate that that is connected through. But
I also anticipated it to be connected through the low density residential. So,
certainly I -- I think there are things that can be done with connectivity. I am
probably one of those rare people that like connectivity. But I think it needs to be
done smartly and I think it needs to be done with appropriate traffic control
measures and whether that being roundabouts or -- I'm not a big fan of speed
bumps, but you can do chicanes, you can do different neck downs, different
things to reduce that desire to go through without completely eliminating the
connectivity and that's I guess what I'm asking for with Burgo is I think that the --
you know, the variation in the street with Mount Etna makes a lot of sense. If
people have to make more turns they are going to be less likely to cut through. I
just don't want Burgo to become the alternative for Mount Etna for everybody
coming to the shopping center to avoid Eagle Road.
Cavener: Thank you. And, Josh, you're two for two. Thank you very much for
pulling that up. You're much more technically savvy than I am.
Coles: Mr. President, there were no others signed up to testify.
Bird: No others? This is a public hearing. Is there anybody that would like to
testify? Come forward. If would you state your name and address, please.
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Komoda: Kallie Komoda and I live at 2559 East Mount Etna. This is one map
that hasn't been brought up tonight and I just wanted to point this out as a good
indicator the density of children for our subdivision. This is from the Southwest
Ada School District and it's the elementary school zoning for the nearby
elementary schools on South Eagle. So, you will see the light paint to the left is
for Mary McPherson. Sorry. I have a cold. And, then, the yellow is for the new
school Hillsdale where Century Farms is being built, where there is the 148 in the
yellow and that's projected to have more homes than the Tuscany Subdivision.
So, that is also going to be a high density spot for children. And, then, in the
middle is the 490 and that's for the projection from last spring. So, even without
Mount Etna and without Taormina we still have one of the highest density
neighborhoods for -- for elementary-age children and it's the same for the high
school and middle school, but I will spare you the time tonight to look at those.
But I thought this was the best map to give the perspective and why there is so
many residents that are so concerned about the children and it's not just
perception of the neighbors. I know you have a lot of people that will come here
and talk about that, but our neighborhood really does have a high density
compared to any other neighborhood south of the interstate. The other thing that
I wanted to bring up was there are several other shopping centers, like the
Walmart and Lowe's off of Overland and Stoddard, without any neighborhood
connectivity. Also the Lowe's off of Ustick and Eagle Road does not have any
connectivity from there back to the neighbors and they all backup to
neighborhoods. So, I'm a little bit I'm sure where the requirement that we have
connectivity from the neighborhood has come from and I don't think any of us
have had a straight answer of why is that -- why is that a requirement. We live
on Mount Etna and my son and I walk to school every day from -- down Mount
Etna to the east and, then, we go up Montague and I understand that there was
an initiative to promote safe pathways to school and that 490 -- all of those
children are required to walk to school. There is no school buses that go to our
school -- to our elementary school. And I think that's it. Please -- please support
the neighborhood and I appreciate your time tonight.
Bird: Any questions? Thank you very much.
Komoda: Thank you.
Bird: This is a public hearing. Would somebody -- come on up.
Maus: I'm Connie Maus and I live on Mount Etna. 2686 East Mount Etna
Drive. And I would like to mention to you, again, that we appreciate all the efforts
that you have done for us and -- and will be doing for us. But we need for you to
hear from us as constituents to this community that we definitely bou ght thinking
that we would be in an area that would provide us some security , some peace --
peacefulness and, you know, I found that moving out into Tuscany. How nice.
The other thing was -- I decided -- my husband and I decided and some of you
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decided that we wanted to invest more of our life savings into that community.
We were at a point that we wanted a home that might be able to provide some of
the amenities that we were looking for. One of the amenities that we were
looking for was having a multi-generational community, meaning we would have
people like myself getting into the aged community looking at the youngsters.
One of the things I quickly picked up in our neighborhood is the safety of the
children, because they do play in the front yard. If you know Mount -- Tuscany, it
is built one house next to the other and you have fences. Where do the kids go
to play? It is not in the backyard, because that's confining. They want to go to
the front yard. So, we can't afford to have cars trying to cut through from Victory,
Locust Grove, or parts of any other coming down to Mount Etna or Santo
Stefano. We cannot afford that. That would be an endangerment to the children.
But the other thing I want to say is -- and I have heard this and I think, well,
people might think are we exclusive, do we see ourselves as an exclusive
neighborhood. I would hope that one would not take that approach . I would
hope that we as a community can come and present to you that we did our do
justice, we are living out our lives, we are choosing the type of community we
want to live in and what we want it to remain as and keep it healthy, viable and
beautiful and that's what we can do for Meridian and that's what we can do for
ourselves. But we need your help. So, we do want it to be R-8. We do want it to
be detached housing that goes in there. We do not want an access onto
Montague. We do not. And if you go to Bear Creek, that's an exclusive
community people say, and we go there, it's closed off, you can't get to the
neighborhood. Now, I looked at Carmel that's being built. Now, maybe if they
take out the fences -- and they have done that in order to do some of the
building, but I don't see a road there -- over there where the new Rite Aid is. So,
I'm just asking you to give due thought that we as a community do not want -- we
want bike paths into Firenze and we want walking paths into Firenze, but we do
not want a car path into Firenze. Thank you.
Bird: Any questions?
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I do have a question. And I'm asking you because I think you're the --
the fifth or sixth person that has brought this up and so I -- the issue with
detached versus, you know, multi-family housing. Why is your neighborhood
against that?
Maus: Well, one of the things that we see -- you know, I'm not going to say we
see. One of the things that studies have shown is that when you have close-in
housing, very close, there is more population density and there is more chan ce of
crime and other things that can occur. So, we are asking not to have that. And I
also would like to --
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January 17, 2017
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Cavener: I think we all don't want more crime in our neighborhoods.
Maus: I would like for you all to maybe -- I had a real shock. This was when I
was out walking when I first moved in and I walked -- it was at school time in the
spring and I went at a certain time -- I had never gone at that time walking and I
was up at Tybalt. All of a sudden it got to about 8:00 -- it must have been around
-- right around 8:30. I thought we had a true herd going through. All the kids --
the garage doors went open, the bikes came out, I saw kids running everywhere.
They didn't care if it was a road or the sidewalk, they were in this herd mentality
going down the road and you heard the sound. I'm not kidding. So, I just want to
tell there is a lot of children there and personally starting to age, I am glad we
have those young children and I want to keep it that way. Okay?
Cavener: Thank you for your testimony.
Bird: Any other?
Yearsley: Good evening, Council Members. I'm Steven Yearsley. I live at 2961
East Lucca. As most of you know, I do serve on the Planning and Zoning
Commission. Unfortunately, I was absent the day it was heard and I do live in
Tuscany and I love my community and I want to echo the residents of the R -8
zoning. Given that this is wanting -- Albertson's is wanting to come in, more than
likely they are going to come in and build their facilities and they are going to sell
off the residential portion. We do have a plat for the residential at this point to
review. If we zone it an R-15 we leave it open to the developer's discretion on
what is to be developed. If we leave it at an R-8 we have the less density. If the
developer wants to come in at an R-15 he has to rezone. It gives us more teeth
in the future to get a product that we want and not something that we have to
have. That's why I support the -- the R-15 -- or R-8 zoning. Sorry. And
recommend that we zone that portion R-8. And also I understand -- you know, I
have been on the Planning and Zoning for seven years now. I understand the
need for transition or wanting transition between commercial and residential and ,
like I said, I'm not against R-15 zoning, but I would like to have at least a piece of
that property as a buffer between us and the R-15 and something that we can
support as an R-15. So, that's why I recommend we leave it an R-8 and, then, if
the developer wants an R-15 he can come back and let him show a good reason
for the R-8. So, thank you.
Bird: Any questions for Steven?
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
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January 17, 2017
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Cavener: Steven, appreciate you coming to give us testimony tonight and I'm
going to throw you an odd ball question, because you're on the P&Z. The alley
loaded part of your neighborhood --
Yearsley: Yes.
Cavener: -- was that zoned separately? To me it looks like it's an R-15
development.
Yearsley: Well -- and, actually, I just looked on the map and it is shown as R-8. I
don't know if it came in as a conditional use or how that came in, but, like I said, I
-- I'm okay with the R-15, but give me something that I can support, not
something that some developer is going to try to jam as many homes as he can
in there and that's -- that's why I would like the R-8 and give him a -- you know,
make them come and show why we want the R-15.
Cavener: Thank you. Good seeing you.
Bird: Anybody else?
Hodson: Good evening. My name is Kim Hodson and I live at 2259 East
Taormina Drive. My big concern is still the through way onto Montague. I have
four kids. One in high school, one in junior high and two in elementary school.
So, this does affect me. I have two children to two different schools that go to
Montague and Amity. That's their bus stop. That road is not set up very well.
It's very, very small. Whenever you're coming in on -- on Montague from Amity
and making a right turn you pretty much swing over and you're in the other part.
So, I will say I do -- I am grateful that the developer is willing to widen that. I
would still prefer there to not be a through way. I agree with the other lady that
suggested connectivity through a pathway for walking or for biking, but not cars.
Behind me there currently is another neighborhood going in called Paisley
Meadows. That's off of Amity and there is no connection from that neighborhood
directly onto a Amity. So, that -- those cars are all going to be sent out into the
neighborhood to exit. So, I can still see the people in that neighborhood and in
the Bellingham Park neighborhood, the Bella Park neighborhood, they are all
connected streetwise and you have to go through them to get to Tuscany and,
you know, I go through them to get to Locust Grove. So, I can just see that it isn't
just Tuscany residents that would be accessing that road , you have at least three
other neighborhoods that would also be using Mount Etna or Taormina, even if
it's not a straight shot. Those would be the quickest, easiest ways to get down to
that entrance in Firenza. So, that's one of my biggest concerns. And the other
one is just that the -- Eagle Road is really just not set up with that roundabout for
commercial property. I think of walking and people wanting to walk and go into
that development and with a roundabout that's really not possible. There is no
way to have a sidewalk. I run and I specifically try to avoid Eagle Road and
Amity, because it's really hard as a pedestrian to navigate a roundabout. So, I
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just don't see that the road really is set up at this point in time to -- to provide
proper pedestrian access into a shopping center like that off of those roads. So,
those are my biggest things. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you. Any questions? Thank you very much. We have got
somebody else. Come on up.
Johnson: Good evening. My name is Brady Johnson. I live at 4742 South
Stromboli Place in the Tuscany Subdivision. I want to just I guess start out
saying that I'm against the development period. I -- you know, currently
Albertson's is -- I don't have anything against Albertson's. Let me say that. I
think they are nice stores. I also believe that our -- the closest grocery store to
the Tuscany Subdivision is an Albertson's already, which is located at the corner
of Lake Hazel and Five Mile Roads, a couple of miles to the -- to the east of us. I
go to that store quite a bit. I can drive there in five minutes. It's not an
inconvenience for me at all to get down to that location. I understand that WinCo
and Fred Meyer are competitors of Albertson's, but there will be a WinCo going in
up on Overland near the Majestic Theaters and , you know, we have a Fred
Meyer at Overland and Five Mile. So, there are -- there are plenty of grocery
stores in this -- in this area. I don't believe that we are -- we are lacking any
grocery stores. I guess the second point I wanted to bring up is the -- I'm one
who leaves for work about 7:30, 7:45 in the morning. I've seen the kids that
stand on the corner of Amity and Montague and I can tell you that 's -- that is very
dangerous. There was a wreck there a couple of weeks ago where somebody hit
a telephone pole on the side of Amity away from Montague, but at that
intersection. Nearly shaved off that -- that telephone pole. Idaho Power was out
to evaluate it. They haven't replaced it. I'm not sure -- I imagine they will once
the weather warms up, but the damage is there and it was significant. Had that
car slid another direction -- I don't believe the wreck happened at a time where
there were kids at the bus stop, but there are a lot of kids in this neighborhood
and I think that Montague definitely needs to be finished off , sidewalks, et cetera,
as these developments move forward. The last point I wanted to bring up is --
you know, there has been a lot of discussion i n here tonight about detached
housing, et cetera. I don't have any statistics to back anything up, but I do know
that I watch the news every night and it seems like more often when I hear about
a shooting that took place somewhere or something that happen ed, more often
than not it seems like it occurred in an apartment complex or something that 's
more densely populated. As many have reiterated here tonight that was one of
the main reasons we moved into Tuscany was for the family friend atmosphere
and the parks and pools, et cetera. I think by having higher density housing we
not only potentially affect home values, but we also could potentially invite higher
crime. Again I don’t know the statistics, but I could -- I can see the probability of
-- of that potentially going up. So, again, just to reiterate what we have heard
here tonight I'd just like -- like you to take into consideration our community and --
that it is one of the nicer communities in Meridian I believe and I have heard that
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from people that live in -- in north Meridian and other parts of Meridian and we
certainly hope it would stay that way. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you. Any questions?
Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I actually have -- I'm going to direct this at Lieutenant Colaianni, since
this has come up a couple of times now. Lieutenant, is -- in Meridian do most of
our crimes happen in apartment buildings or duplexes?
Colaianni: I'm not sure -- is this on? Hello. No. So, typically we see all our
largest crime in the high traffic areas of shopping centers, shopping areas, such
like that. You know, you will have -- anything can happen anywhere. Homes.
Apartments. But our biggest areas where we see our most emphasis is in the
shopping centers.
Johnson: Could I ask one question?
Bird: Into the mike.
Johnson: Is that crime that you're seeing towards the shopping centers, et
cetera, more correlated with, you know, theft, shoplifting at a supermarket,
versus like any correlation with violent crime, assaults, robberies, shootings?
Colaianni: It encompasses everything. Accidents. Assaults. Batteries. Thefts.
Burglaries. Fraud. Forgeries. It encompasses everything. That's typically what
we see.
Johnson: Okay. Thank you.
Colaianni: You're welcome.
Bird: I think we had another young lady back that there that's --
Boyd: Hello. Good evening. My name is Nancy Boyd and I live with my fiance
at 4289 South Burgo Way. I just wanted to sort of reiterate a couple of things
that I thought were important pertaining to Burgo Way. Burgo -- so, Zaldia -- if
you all could -- you are wonderful. Zaldia -- I have noticed that a lot of people cut
the corner from Zaldia to Burgo Way and actually just recently we had an
accident in front of our house where a car hit a tree. We are the third house
down and it seems as though I'm always seeing cars that are going quickly .
They are making a turn from Zaldia to Burgo. It concerns me when it comes to
summertime. I'm actually a specialist in the schools and so I have my summers
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off and I typically hang out at the pool and outside a lot and I notice that there are
a lot cars that are parked along Burgo Way, as well as children in the streets on
their bikes, as well as parents with strollers, with children that are walking. I have
also seen where kiddos are selling baked goods on the corner of Zaldia and
Burgo, kind of by East Tusa Street, whether it be bake goods or drinks and kids
will congregate around there to where it concerns me if these cars are going by
quickly and we add -- and we sort of open the access to Burgo Way to go
through, it makes me think of more traffic, makes me concerned for the children
and I just kind of wanted to -- I know there have been quite a few people that
have mentioned that it's busy, the Burgo pool there. This is one of three pools I
believe in our neighborhood -- or in the whole Tuscany Subdivision. It seems to
get pretty darn busy and I don't know if that paints a picture for you , but it is lots
of people walking around, people congregating around that pool area. Second
thing that I wanted to mention was about the traffic study. I know that there was
-- I heard a question about it and when that traffic study was done on our street
on Burgo my fiance saw -- and I'm not sure what it's technically called , but the
rope that stretches across the street, it was -- so, we are the third house in. It
was the fourth house down in front of her mailbox. So, it's not actually capturing
any of the East Tulsa Street traffic. It was there at 5:30 in the morning when my
fiance went to work, but when he came home at 3:00 and when I came home at
6:00 it was gone. So, it wasn't actually a full day, it wasn't actually capturing the
east -- the East -- gosh darn it. Tusa Street traffic. So, it's only capturing what's
coming down for Fratello and down Burgo. So, it's not actually capturing all of
the traffic that's going by on Burgo, as well as this is -- this traffic study was done
a couple months ago and it doesn't capture -- it doesn't actually -- it doesn't
actually kind of picture what it's truly like during the summer when there is so
many people around, so many things can happen. And last thing, just to let you
folks know, you know, I, as a single woman purchasing a home, my first home, it
was -- I didn't think I would do my due diligence until I did all of the research for
the area and I thought I did everything I possibly could to make sure that I was
making an excellent investment and I still think it's an excellent investment. But I
think that when it comes to the area that's sort of adjacent to Burgo Way I would
really like to ask you folks to let it remain R-8. I was told on numerous
occasions from the individuals that we were purchasing the home from or having
that home built from, they reassured me that this is going to be a residential area.
So, I -- I just wanted to put that out there.
And that's it.
Bird: Any questions? Thank you very much.
Boyd: Thanks.
Wadsworth: So I'm Jonathan Wadsworth. 2706 Taormina I think is my address.
I moved in about four months ago. I'm about three houses in off of Montague. I
just wanted to address your question if I could, because the R-8 designation -- for
me it's not -- it's not a question of crime. I mean I -- it's really not. But having sat
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through the Planning and Zoning meeting, it was kind of a nod or concession of
the neighborhood for continuity of the neighborhood. There is no other attached
family homes and it's an R-8 and I -- it wasn't the developer to my knowledge that
ever brought an R-15 designation, I believe that was a recommendation from
staff and Planning and Zoning. So, the committee at Planning and Zoning said,
you know, we agree, we want to make this concession to the neighborhood that
you have something contiguous, that it looks like it blends and that you don't
increase the population and increase traffic and kids to a school that's already
full, the streets that are already full. So, again, not a crime thing, it's a continuity
neighborhood and population density thing. Thanks.
Bird: Thank you. We had one more. Here we go.
Ragland: Skye Ragland and I live at 2300 East Taormina and I just want to say
that with the connectivity so many neighborhoods in Meridian don't have the
connectivity to the neighborhood, like others have mentioned is pretty much all of
us don't want the connectivity. Why do we have to be the exception to that and I
just -- it seems like we have already lost that fight, so if we have to have the
connectivity I appreciate that it's between Santo Stefano and Mount Etna, so it's
not a straight through to Mount Etna or Taormina, because those are both great
streets to cut through to the other neighborhoods. I know because I do it. And
Bella Park will probably do it and Paisley if they have this connectivity through to
the shopping center. But I just -- I would like there to be no connectivity, but if
you're going to keep the connectivity, please, keep it where it's at right now and,
please, keep it R-8. We have made an investment, just like everyone else. Did
our due diligence and like others have mentioned it feels like the rug's being
pulled out from us.
Bird: Any questions? Thank you. Is there any other testimony? Okay.
Raine: David Raine. 2773 East Mount Etna Drive. I would just come up to voice
my opinion that I am against the development . I think so many people have
voiced their concern, but the fact that they did their homework, they did their due
diligence, you've got a lot of people that have their life's work in their home and
they've invested a lot of money and you look at the -- one of my big concerns is
you look at the Comprehensive Plan, it isn't the first one out. This has been an
iterative process. In fact, I think it was recently updated and they didn't see fit to
change it to a commercial application or R-15 at the last go-around. So, my
question is what other areas are going to be changed? I understand. I'm -- I'm
pro-development just like anybody else, but there is a right place, there is a
wrong place. What is the message Meridian is sending people that are coming
in. we have got this high growth rate, who is next. Caveat emptor should be the
motto of the day. You've got issues with future crime. So, many people
expressed concerns with children, traffic flows, I think -- it would be tough. If I --
if I was in your shoes sitting there, there is a lot more questions I would want to
have answered. It doesn't seem like it's the full picture and I'd have some pause,
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quite honestly. But I do appreciate this process, the opportunity to get up here. I
do want to voice that concern. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you.
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: What are those questions? You said that if you were up here that you
would want to be asking more questions. Now is that time. So, what are those
questions?
Raine: You did a traffic study. It was a seasonal traffic study. Yeah, a woman
mentioned it looks quite different in the summertime. Kids are home. They are
out and about. They are in the neighborhoods. What does spring look like?
What does fall look like? This is -- this just come up. You took a snapshot and
you're going to shoot from the hip and hope that, hey, everything works good.
Yeah, we want to develop. It seems there is a big push from Planning and
Zoning, that's kind of my perception, that we want this continuity of
neighborhoods, we want this flow, we want to encourage walking, yet you have
built -- I was looking forward -- one of the reasons I bought out there -- you have
got a YMCA going in. There is no way I'm ever going to be able to walk or
encourage my children to walk to cross a roundabout when you have got all the
commercial development. Also if you look at that corner, all those other -- all
those other corner properties are residential, I believe. That's what we have
been told. Will those change? And what does that do? And so, you know, it just
-- the picture gets -- it changes -- keeps on changing and so I haven't heard that
discussion how are these things going to build and feed into -- you know, is the
roundabout going to become a traffic light and how many years is that going to
be done? You have spent X amount of dollars developing this beautiful
roundabout and what's next?
Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: In respect to your comments, there is an election this year. I mean that
sincerely. Right? Is it this year? November we will be looking for some new City
Council members. So, just keep that in mind. We could use you.
Raine: Well, my concern is for my home, my future value. Thank you.
Bird: Come on up.
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Davidson: My name is Jason Davidson. I live on 2527 East Taormina Drive.
Over the past year or so I have noticed on the internet on several occasions
Meridian pops up as on top ten list of places to live and you think about the
reasons why that is and you kind of have to think, well, is it because we have a
grocery store on every other corner? Is because we have this, that, and the
other thing? I'd like to submit that, no, that is not the reason, that the reason that
you find Meridian on these top ten places to live is -- is the people here in this
room, just as an example. You have heard testimony from just amazing people
that I'm proud to consider my neighbors and one thing to consider when you
make your decision with this is when you follow the will of the people they are
going to stick around. If you go against the will of the people, you know, the thing
that makes your community great begins to leave . I have a brother that lives up
in Missoula. He tells me Missoula is what Boise used to be about ten, 15 years
ago. Come on up. Live up here with us. I say, no, Meridian is great. We have
got a great community, it's recognized nationally. You know, every time I see
that list I cringe, because I want it to remain a secret. My wife lives in California -
- or her family lives in California and every time I have to visit I just -- you know,
my knuckles are turning white, because I can't wait to get back home here to
Meridian. And, once again, the thing that makes Meridian such a great place to
live is not the shopping centers, the commercial, it's the people. Please do
everything in your power to make sure that good people stay here. That's all.
Bird: Thank you. Any questions? Anybody else?
Gardner: My name is Karena Gardner. 2571 East Taormina. I just want to get
up and second what Jason said. We moved here from Utah two years ago and
we were really drawn to Meridian and particularly we were drawn to south
Meridian for the commute downtown for my husband . My son got up and spoke
here today, which is really difficult for himself , so I was proud of him. But one
thing that -- that drew us to the Tuscany neighborhood was that it was a place for
our children and you hear that over and over and over again from all these
people in this room is that we feel safe in that neighborhood for our children. We
have older people here who have gone door to door for us signing petitions,
getting people to come to these meetings, and they don't even have kids in the
neighborhood. They want to keep it safe for our kids in the neighborhood. It's
been a really neat effort to see everyone come together for the benefit of our
children. Right now my kids go to Victory Middle School, which is already full,
and, then, Sienna, which is already full. My son in second grade has 26 children
in his class and this is with the downsizing of the classrooms this year. He still
has 26 kids in his class. So, when people talk about high density residential,
where do you think all these kids are going to go to school? They are going to be
in on walk zone. They are going to go to our schools. We -- we want to keep our
schools the way they are and they are already crowded. So, when we think
about, you know, putting this development in, it affects everybody. It especially
affects our kids. My son when he rides his bike to school, I tell him he can't even
ride at Montague, because Montague isn't even safe. There was a child that
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spoke in a recent meeting talking about how when he went around the corner --
there is a roundabout on Zaldia and Montague, it is a blind corner. I can't tell you
how many kids have come around that corner had to stop in the middle of that
around about because people cannot see on the other side. So, when we talk
about traffic going into our neighborhood, we are also talking about they are
going around those roundabouts to cut through. Those are blind corners. They
are whipping around on Montague off Amity. People fly down that road. They
are going 45. They are making a right turn on Amity onto Montague, guess what,
there is all those kids sitting at the bus stop. Who is going to get nailed first? So,
kids are kids, they will goof around in the morning. I get that. But our concern
here today is about keeping our neighborhood safe . People have waited their
whole lives and save d their whole lives to live in this neighborhood and when
Jason talks about Meridian being one of the best places to live, let's keep it that
way. Let's keep it that way for the kids. At some point when are the children
going to come first, the safety of the kids. You know, I choose the safety of the
kids over a two minute walk to the grocery store. I am fine driving five minutes,
so thank you for your time.
Bird: Any questions? Anybody else?
Stark: My name is Kathy Stark. I live at 2630 East Amity Road. We moved in
and we did our research, too, and it was RUT I believe. They changed it. We
thought, well, they will develop some day. It will be RUT -- or R-4. They didn't
make it R-4, they made it R-8. I would request that you make it R-4. Across the
street it's R-4. It should have been R-4. Most of the homes in Tuscany qualify
under the R-4. It should be R-4. It shouldn't all be R-8, it should R-4. That
would settle all the problems with attached housing and it would be -- the people
that back up to Montague, those are nice homes. Their values are going to be --
go down if you make it R-8 and you put houses that are on smaller lots next to
those people. It's not right. It should be -- when we moved in it was RUT. It
should be R-4, not R-8. Certainly not R-15.
Bird: Any questions? I got a question.
Stark: Sure.
Bird: In Tuscany where are your R-4s?
Stark: They are all around us. So, we are --
Bird: There is a difference between and R-8 and an R-4 by a long shot.
Stark: Tuscany has -- yes, there is. By a long shot. So, this part right here --
and I have seen the crime rate go up at my house since Tuscany came in. So, I
assume the crime rate is going increase more with more residential. This house
right here, that's our property. This one. Can you see?
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Bird: We can't. We can't see it.
Stark: Thank you. Sorry, I'm old.
Bird: It's confusing to us, too.
Stark: Okay. So -- that's not it. Oh, it's a touch screen. Okay. So, where do I
go back? So, how do I touch this? Just touch it? This right here. Okay. So, we
are this property right here. So, all these homes right here, they are large lots
and these lots right here are larger lots. So, when they first did this development
it was years ago and -- and I think they did the R-8 because of the patio homes,
but the majority of Tuscany is R-4. Really R-4. It's zoned R-8, but if you look at
the dimensions of the lot I believe they are closer to R-4. So, I would request
that you make this -- all of the residential R-4 and not R-8.
Bird: Josh?
Beach: She has indicated that, yes, the zoning is R-8, but they are not at the
minimum lot size.
Stark: Correct.
Beach: So, these -- some of these lots are larger than the minimum and if that --
let me just have one more caveat. We have since changed the R-8 zoning again
and reduced the lot size. So, they are significantly bigger than what would be
allowed in the R-8 zone right now. Just -- just for your information.
Bird: Thank you.
Stark: So, does that mean if you zone it R-8 they are going to be smaller than --
Bird: They could be.
Stark: Right. So, I would --
Bird: The square footage has changed that R-4 --
Stark: -- encourage you to do R-4, because across the street they are doing R-4.
Bird: Yes. Thank you.
Stark: Thank you.
Beach: Just quickly. With that I would say that the minimum lot size for the R-4
is 8,000 square feet. The minimum lot size for the R-8 is 4,000 square feet.
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Bird: Just half. Any other? Okay. Tamara. You kept track of all the --
Thompson: Mr. President, Members of City Council, Tamara Thompson again
with The Land Group. I took notes the whole time. My hands kind of hurt. So, I
will do my best to answer everything. Please remind me if I forget something. I
want to start with -- I do have John Ringert here, so if you have questions about
the traffic study, how it was conducted, all that kind of stuff, I'm going to let him
answer those. So, please -- please ask and I will bring him up. Or do you want
to start with him?
Bird: I'd like to see the traffic --
Thompson: Okay.
Bird: That was the biggest thing.
Ringert: Hi. City Council President, Council Members. My name is John
Ringert. I'm a traffic engineer with Kittleson & Associates. 101 South Capital
Boulevard, Suite 301, Boise, Idaho. 83702. I have some prepared presentation
to explain the right-in, right-outs and the importance of those, but I could also do -
- I could do that up front or do that after I answer some of your questions.
Bird: Whatever way is best for you. Go ahead.
Ringert: Okay. Well, I will just go through this, because this is one of the key
items for this development as we go through this -- as we go through the process
to get everything to work. Let's see. I always forget on this thing myself, too.
So, as I mentioned, the right-in, right-outs were a critical part of the development
due to this particular location and to give you a little b ackground, there is two of
them, one on Amity, one on Eagle. We worked pretty well with ACHD staff
looking at location, how it would work, how it would -- you know, how it -- how it
works with the -- with the public street system and being developed. The staff
ended up recommending it for approval, but as Tamara said, the commission left
it out. You know, there is -- there always is that question, especially on
something like this between Meridian and ACHD when we are essentially -- we
are asking for an approval from both, because it's -- both agencies have
standards that we need to adjustments for. But they are planning on coming
back and relooking at this. So, it's -- so, what we are really asking for now is for
approval and to remove the conditions of 1.1.1L and 1.1M. So, just to kind of
explain. Sometimes accesses are all lumped into one thing -- into one, like it's an
access, so, of course, you -- of course, it's going to be a detriment to the roadway
system. But, really, right-in, right-outs are actually a tool we use -- we use them
pretty commonly to try to solve problems instead of trying to keep access from
happening. You get improved safety. I mean if we can do -- if we can take
traffic, get them out onto the road in a safe manner as a right turn versus making
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them have to go through different left turn maneuvers to get to the same spot
that's an improvement. They have minimal impact on the through traffic. You
know, it's not the same issues you run into with left turns. They are relatively
easy for people to understand. That's why, for instance, you know, we have a lot
of comments about roundabouts. They have a substantially lower crash rate and
they are very -- and they generally operate very efficiently as people get used to
them. And directional oriented, they are great for looking at the direction of
traffic. Can we get people in from a certain direction. In this case there is some
real advantages with this particular site. Why is it unique? One, how we have
the local street system -- it's a street system that's going to benefit the
development, but with it what we want to do is try to minimize the conflicts on
that. It's also adjacent to a roundabout. The roundabout gives us some
advantages that we wouldn't get out of another typical signalized intersection or
unsignalized intersection. If somebody is having trouble making a left turn, they
can take a right turn and do a U-turn right through the roundabout and people
slowly are beginning to realize that as roundabouts get -- become more popular.
As you have heard, there is a lot of concern about minimizing traffic on the -- on
the local street system. If we can get people in and out that really helps and in
this particular case I will go through how the p.m. directional traffic during the
evening, which is really what these pads and the store is going to really capitalize
on, it really works with the locations of the right-in, right-outs. So, if you -- if you
kind of look at how the site functions, right now just to take a right-in and right-
out, we have to take -- we have to come off, for instance, Eagle Road -- let's see.
You're coming on Eagle Road, which is horizontal there. So, north is to your left.
You have to take a right turn off of Eagle Road and a left turn into the site and,
then, to get back out you're going to have to take two turns. If we can get that
traffic to just slide right-in and right-out, it really has very little effect on through
traffic and now we -- we -- we saved some extra conflicts in that area. Same with
Amity. If we can get people in and out quicker, keep them from having to go -- to
make too many turns. Every one of those turns is another set of conflicts. So,
that's -- you know, that's the kind of conflict, the issue. The other one element is
just getting people in and out, so we don't send them -- we make it obvious. If
you're in a parking lot I can get right out on the road. I don't have to leave
potentially through the neighborhood. So, you know, trying to help that ease of
access. And, then, the p.m. peak directional traffic in this case really benefits this
site. As much as we can we love the situation where the peak directional --
during the peak shopping hours is going in the right direction . So, people can
just turn right in and right out and not have to take a left. There is always going
to be left turns and we know it's always challenging on Eagle Road. There is
going to be substantial improvements to help that, but in this case if we can get
people quickly in and out coming down the southbound direction of -- of Eagle
Road and heading out westbound on Amity Road. So, you add all these together
and, you know, in this case it really -- I believe it really makes sense. ACHD staff
believe it really made sense. And so, you know, we really think there is some
good reasons for the city to approve this, which, you know, allows ACHD to -- to
talk seriously about approving it. We have some traffic safety improvements,
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especially to the U-turns with a roundabout will add a little advantage there.
Minimal impact through traffic. Reduce potential for the -- for traffic to kind of
move itself in some of the local streets and we get that orientation during the p.m.
peak. So, I'd really like you to consider the right-in, right-outs. You have heard
some positive testimony also from -- from the neighborhood about those.
Bird: Any questions?
Ringert: Any questions on that or other things?
Bird: Any questions for John?
Cavener: I have questions for you -- not really into this particular piece. I don't
know if you have other --
Ringert: No. This is -- I just wanted to hit on this so it didn't get forgotten.
Cavener: Mr. President, if I may?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: It was intimated earlier during testimony that the traffic study wasn't
completed during p.m. hours, that it was conducted it sounds like e arly in the
morning and into the -- earlier in the afternoon. Can you provide some
commentary to the authenticity of that?
Ringert: Okay. So, when it comes to traffic counts, the primary study, the big
thick one, is all based on the p.m. peak hour traffic condi tions. Traffic data was
collected in May and specifically was collected for that -- the peaks before school
let out. We do that, because the traffic conditions on the roadway system
generally drop during the summer. They may not on a specific sidewalk around
the pool in a neighborhood, I completely understand that, but our standards are --
if we can to get those counts, you know, before -- during -- when school is still in
session and it's kind of our normal traffic conditions. We, then, did later counts
based on, you know, some of the involvement with the n eighborhood and ACHD
and looking at traffic volumes throughout the neighborhood and so we did counts
there mainly in -- mainly in early November and, then, again in early December.
So, we did some additional -- and those were daily counts. Those weren't your
peak hour counts for analysis, those were to understand the volumes throughout
the neighborhood. For instance, you know, there was a comment we were
counting Burgo and we counted Mount Etna and Taormina and a couple places
on Montague, because we only had daily count on Montague. So, those counts
are daily counts. They were 24 hours for the most part. They all are set up --
how they work with 24 hours, because they don't like people being in the road
during peak hours or during traffic times, because they have to actually go out
and they have to spend five or ten minutes out there in the road, so they set the
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tubes up at around 4:00 to 5:00 a.m. and, then, they take them back at 5:00 a.m.
So, it -- unless you really watch closely if you -- if you come home from work and
you see it, you may not see it the next morning and if you saw it when -- and if
you saw it in the morning and you didn't notice it when you came home from work
it may not be there the next morning. So, sometimes we have that problem, but
all the -- we had data on all the roads for all those hours. So, I -- the company
does work for everybody in the valley. I don't see a concern there. We do have
some times we have to set the counts up in certain locations so that we don't
have cars going sideways across them. So, we don't always get the counts right
at the intersection, because with the tube you have to be going over it straight for
it to work. So, not all the counts are at the exact peaks sub block of a street, they
are to get a feel for what traffic was, which is what ACHD asked.
Cavener: Mr. President, additional questions.
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: We heard some additional testimony today that questioned the validity
of the 20 additional trips. Can you provide in your expertise where that number
was derived from and the validity of it?
Ringert: Yeah. We use -- we use a model to determine internal trips within the
area and when we look at internal trips we don't really differentiate one
neighborhood from another. We are kind of looking at everybody in that square
mile that's probably going to use the local street system to get there. So, I guess
my definition of a cut-through trip isn't the next neighborhood over, my definition
of a cut-through trip is somebody, you know, coming off an arterial. So, what we
will do is -- we will estimate out where those houses are -- the first estimated
gross amount based on the houses within that square mile. Then when -- then
we will assign those to different roads, depending on how many homes are in
that area and how many homes might use that road . So, you know, that's -- it's
somewhat of a -- you know, we go through a -- it's a scientific process, but that's
how that number came about. So, different roads have different amounts we
have estimated.
Bird: Thank you. Any more questions? Thanks, John.
Ringert: Thank you.
Bird: Tamara.
Thompson: Mr. President, Members of the Council, again Tamara Thompson
with The Land Group. A daily needs grocery anchored center is needed in the
vicinity due to the increase in housing in the area . The area is underserved by
grocery and other neighborhood supportive services. The Meridian planning staff
concurs and Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission concurs that a
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commercial development is appropriate for the property and will provide the
much-needed daily services and shopping in this area of the city. The proposed
use is consistent with the Meridian Comprehensive Plan in that it encourages
grocery stores to be built within walking distance of resident dwellings . Grocery
varies from other retail uses in that the customer typically goes directly home due
to refrigerated, frozen, and other perishable items. The going home side of the
intersection -- or the road is very important for a grocery store's long-term
viability. This site is ideal for -- ideal for a grocery anchored center. There are
other shopping choices. Not everyone shops every day and there are -- currently
everyone in this neighborhood and in this vicinity is shopping today and they are
traveling between six and eight miles round trip for groceries and other daily
need services. This center will provide a grocery store within walking distance or
a shorter vehicle distance for an overall benefit to the road network. There is
three items that have been brought up tonight that I could kind of distill all the
comments down. The first one being done today and I just want to clarify -- our
proposal has always been R-8 and the intent is to be consistent with the Tuscany
neighborhood. The R-15 -- and I told Josh I was going to throw him under the
bus earlier and I apologized in advance, but the R-15 came from the planning
staff, that they -- they brought that up and -- but I do want to clarify. Our proposal
has always been -- our application has always been R-8 and we agree that R-8 is
appropriate and not the R-15. But I think the R-15 was off the table after P&Z,
but I just want to clarify that. The -- one gentleman brought up that the reason
that the turnout tonight was less than -- than perhaps at ACHD or at P&Z is they
are getting beat down by the system and I would like to argue that it's -- it's
because of the concessions that if -- that are being made and one of the things
that came out of the P&Z is the R-8 and another thing that came out is the
improvements to Montague. That was not something that was in the staff report
previously and P&Z came up with that as a proposed condition and -- and we
have agreed to that. So, I think it's just -- it's been some things that we have --
that have some give and take along the way and not necessarily the apathy. The
connection to the neighborhood and making that a more circuitous connection is
-- is another thing that I think has helped . Burgo was mentioned several times
and the connection to Burgo was something that was in the original ACHD staff
report and ACHD backed off of that and currently the road networks out there --
Burgo does have a sign at the end of it that says it will be extended in the future
and the other one that has a sign is Santo Stefano has a sign that says it will be
connected in the future. But interestingly the other two to the south, Mount Etna
and -- I can never pronounce that other name . Taormino I believe. Taormina.
Those two do not have those signs. There are the barricades there and I don't
know if the signs have disappeared, but they don't say that they would be
extended in the future. The only ones that I see when I drive out there today is
Santo Stefano and Burgo and ACHD staff had backed off of Burgo being
connection for this commercial development. They -- they are going to address
that with a residential plat. It could be that that just goes in and cul-de-sacs right
there with a couple houses around it -- a handful of houses, but that -- that is --
that design and that connection point is a discussion for another day . But ACHD
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did back off of that connection point for this development, for the commercial
portion. The other -- so, density, the connection to the neighborhood, and the
traffic and, again, we were not the only development generating traffic in the
area. You have seen a lot of activity in this area recently, but I believe we are the
only development offering a solution and coming to the table with three million
dollars worth of improvements and 3.5 acres worth of additional ACHD right-of-
way. Okay. I have a couple other here. So, I would like to point out that the
peak shopping hours aren't the same as bus hours , thankfully. That -- that the
busing hours are different. That commercial development does not have those
additional students that need to go to the school. So, the residential portion of
that development, now that it's in the commercial, that wouldn't need to go --
those kids won't be going to the schools. I addressed Burgo. Someone brought
up that perhaps Meridian Road would be a better location and this was broug ht
up at the P&Z Commission hearing also and Meridian in that location is a state
highway and a state highway is more of a regional draw and this development is
a neighborhood center. So, we are not talking -- and I keep feeling like people
have a mental image that this is the next Center Cal project or the next Village at
Meridian and it is much smaller scale. This is a neighborhood center grocery
store anchored with -- with a few other tenants. As far as screening, we fully
intend to truck -- or screen I believe the way for the delivery trucks and -- and all
that landscaping will be along Belleeza on both sides of the road. And, again,
the high-quality tenants -- what will help us drive the high-quality tenants is the
additional access -- the convenient access really does help with -- with getting
those high-quality tenants, but Albertson's is local and they are the end user
here, so they have a lot of controls over who they want their co-tenants to be and
those -- those undesirable tenants aren't -- aren't who they want either and they
will be doing their best to bring the high-quality tenants for their -- into their
center. We have read and agree with the conditions of approval , with a couple
exceptions. The first one is 1.1.1H and this is dealing with zoning L-O on the
north side of that future road that we are currently calling Mount Etna, but
hopefully won't stay that way. Those -- that zone is too limiting. It doesn't -- L-O
doesn't allow any retail uses at all. So, we would like to request a C-C zone and
-- and we could limit maybe -- if there is a use or two that you would like to limit
within the C-C, but the L-O doesn’t give us any retail uses for that. So, we -- we
respectfully request that said that -- that continues to say the C-C zone and --
Cavener: Mr. President? Sorry, Tamara.
Thompson: Yes.
Cavener: Josh, can you pull up on the map to show where that is?
Beach: Absolutely. That would be Block 2. These four here.
Thompson: Just the Block 2 there.
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Cavener: Thank you.
Thompson: And the second one is just 1.1.8 and this one, again, is the Council
waiver for the two right-in, right-outs. That would be one right-in, right-out access
onto Amity and one right-in, right-out access onto Eagle Road. Those are
extremely critical for the success of the project. And with that we respectfully
request your approval with the two modifications I just mentioned. Thank you.
Bird: Any questions for --
Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I have a few questions, Tamara.
Thompson: Yes, ma'am.
Milam: The -- the neighborhood connectivity, how critical is that for the
development? That's going to be the biggest issue in the room. So, you know, if
that was -- if there is any way to eliminate that access directly into the subdivision
-- however, before you even answer that, I think -- this is almost a situation to cut
off your nose to spite our face -- is that if I lived there I think anybody -- if they
remove that road I think there will be a lot of regret from neighbors down the road
wishing that you had a road into that shopping center. But that's -- that being
said, what is the -- how critical is that?
Thompson: Mr. President, Councilman Milam -- could I have an aerial overview?
So, Tuscany -- back up just a little bit if you would. So, Tuscany neighborhood
has very limited access to the arterials. So, currently you have got Zaldia and,
then, you have to cross a ditch that has just a couple connections to the north
and, then, there is another access to the north. So, as far as Eagle Road there is
very limited access to Eagle Road. And, then, the same thing with Montague, it's
the only connection point to Amity. So, in order for neighbors to shop today, they
are funneling to those three points and what the connection to Montague does is
it just keeps you from having to turn onto Amity in order to turn into the
neighborhood. So, as far as the viability of the shopping center, I don't -- I don't
think that it matters much, but I think that it -- I don't believe it's going to change
much of the traffic within the neighborhood and that's really what the traffic report
was saying, is that everyone has to -- has to make it to those points today.
Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Mrs. Milam.
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Milam: And I agree with you. I don't think it's going to bring a lot of traffic
through the neighborhood. I don't think people are going to come through like
this from Locust Grove to get over there. But we have the signatures of
hundreds of residents saying we don't want this road. We will walk. We will go
around. We will get there however we get there. So, if it's not critical to the
development and the neighbors don't want it, why not ditch it?
Thompson: Mr. President, Councilman Milam, I -- I can't really answer that. I
mean I would need to talk to my client, but I know that it's not critical, but we do
feel that it's appropriate that -- that the connection is there.
Beach: Councilman Milam, if I may -- Mr. President?
Bird: Go ahead.
Beach: As far as the staff is concerned, the applicant has requested this be a
mixed use development and they have requested through -- there are several
things that would, essentially, take away the things that we look at in order for
something to be called a mixed use development. One of those is at least three
different land use types. With the removal of the L-O they have only got two. So,
it doesn't -- that makes it not meet the requirements of the mixed use
designation. Also one of the other issues here is the connectivity to the
surrounding neighborhood. It's also something that is required in our
Comprehensive Plan for a mixed use neighborhood. So, when staff reviews
something like this we -- and I can go through and kind of explain a little bit about
why we initially had a condition in the R-15 zoning district there as well, we -- we
envision a transition from the existing homes to a corner where there is going to
be a lot more activity; right? So, both of the existing uses with the understanding
that Montague Way will act as somewhat of a buffer to that west side. But if we
remove all of the things that make this a mixed use development we, then, can't
call it a mixed use development. So, that -- that's -- that's what I want you to be
aware of as we have the review of this. I know you have all looked at the staff
report, but it's staff's opinion that these things make -- will make the development
work and we get a little bit leery about forcing all the traffic out to the arterial
roadways for folks who live in Tuscany that if there is a grocery store there, they
are likely to go there and shop.
Bird: Any other questions?
Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Go ahead.
Milam: Tamara, you had mentioned high quality tenants. Do you currently have
any specific tenants in mind? And I know that the neighbors kind of want to go to
worst case scenario. It's just going to be restaurants and cigarette stores and
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alcohol and, you know, all that, but I mean the truth is it's probably going to be
more like dentists and -- you know, I don't know. I'm not sure exactly what you
had in mind. So, do you have any specific tenants?
Thompson: Mr. President, Councilman Milam, I -- I don't deal with that side, but I
don't believe they have marketed the site yet, because they don't have a project
yet. So -- and, really, I don't -- I mean everyone's busy right now, which is
awesome, and, you know, as far as having end-users look at something before
they know what they are looking at, you know, they don't know the rules yet and
so it's just -- you can't get anybody serious at this point. Once we know what the
rules are and what all the conditions are , then, they can start marketing the
project. But at this point it's -- it's a little premature and everybody's too busy to
look at something that's, you know, this is what we would like to do type of thing.
And I would -- if I could, I'd just like to address one thing that Josh said. On the
three different uses in the m ixed use, we fully intend to have some office there,
so there will be three different types of uses with the office and residential and
retail. We just don't want to limit it that it has to be in just one area, to have that
flexibility that things can land where they organically need to land. But those
three uses will still be there and I don't think that L -O has to be defined in one
area. Thanks.
Bird: Tamara, I -- I would -- would the applicant be receptive to making that an
R-4 designation instead of an R-8? I know it takes a lot of lots away from you,
but it would be -- to me it would be a nice transition to the shopping center. I
believe that they were worried -- and the -- we are worried about traffic and stuff,
but all these houses right now is going somewhere to buy groceries and, you
know, they are traveling four miles up Lake Hazel or over -- they are going down
to Overland and to that area or they come into Meridian to WinCo or whatever,
but -- so, the traffic is -- and I would think that if we -- well, the safety of the youth
has got to be our number one priority and I think his Council has always put
youth safety first. I -- I think this is a nice project, but I would -- I would absolutely
love to see it go R-4, just like the one across to the east of it. If we could. You
can ask your applicant.
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Mr. Palmer, please. Because I'm going to go head down another
pathway, so go ahead.
Palmer: Yeah. Mr. President. I think -- you used the word good or the word
goods transition. It seems like usually when we use those words it's in
relation to maybe R-4 to an R-8 to commercial or an R-8 to -- as staff had pointed
out to a multi-family housing situation to commercial or at least being consistent
with what's there to commercial, rather than -- here is my concern with that is that
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if -- if we had bigger lots there is going to be a lot less -- a lot more space
between driveways and if -- if it gets to the point where there is neighbors parking
in front of all these R-4 houses to walk over into the -- and not have to deal with
going out arterials or cutting through to -- to get to the different retail locations
here, I imagine people spending money in the five, six, seven hundred thousand
dollar range on an R-4 house would definitely not feel that's an appropriate
transition.
Bird: Good point.
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Yeah. Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: While the applicant is conferring with her client, I see Mr. Lucas sitting
in the back. I'm hoping maybe he could come up. I have got a couple of
questions while the public hearing is open.
Lucas: Good evening, Members of the Council. My name is Justin Lucas. I'm
here tonight representing the Ada County Highway District. Business address is
3775 Adams Street in Garden City, Idaho.
Cavener: Thank you. Mr. President. Justin, recognizing -- and I'm sure our staff
would attest to that sometimes the mindset and decisions of the elected body
sometimes is counter to the recommendations of staff. I'm hoping you can
provide us some insight on the decision from the ACHD commission to not
approve and -- nor deny this right-in, right-out. To me it seems contradictory, at
least -- especially on Eagle Road to the highway district and the state's
recommendations of turning that road into a right-in, right-out from beginning to
end.
Lucas: Council -- Council President, Councilman Cavener, you're right, I do not
try to interpret the -- the desires often of the elected officials. That being said, I
think the -- the memo provided from Christy Little describes the situation there
where the ACHD commission in this specific instance decided to wait and see
the guidance from Meridian city on this, leaving the door open to, through a
subsequent application, approve those right-in, right-outs. The ACHD structure
is a little different than the structure at the city Of Meridian. If I'm -- if I'm not
correct let me know, but I believe the Council has to approve the waiver to this --
this specific access point to the arterial street network. At ACHD it's a little bit
different and there is different processes to approve access points. So, I think
they really wanted in this specific situation to see what the Council wanted to do
and, then, they will go from there. Thank you.
Bird: Thank you.
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Cavener: Mr. President, additional question if I may. And, Justin, recognizing I'm
throwing you a curve ball here, I'm just curious -- you're, obviously, a subject
matter expert on traffic. Have you seen traffic studies that deal with commercial
centers that only impact, you know, traffic counts by -- by 20 trips? The number
to me just seems interesting and it being that low and I'm just curious as -- as
someone who is an expert if you have ever seen something else like that.
Lucas: So, the term expert, you know, is oftentimes loosely associated with me.
I am not -- I am not a professional engineer and it's an important designation --
Cavener: I agree.
Lucas: -- in this specific instance, because the traffic study that was completed
and prepared by Kittleson & Associates was completed by professional
engineers who follow industry standards to produce these documents and so
those documents are reviewed by professional engineers who work for the Ada
County Highway District and those findings are presented in the reports that you
-- that you receive. When it comes to a trip generation and allocation of trips, the
engineers use industry standards to -- to produce those -- those reports. In this
specific situation from all of the traffic studies I have read and been involved in,
as a -- not only a transportation planner, but a land use planner working for a
city, it really varies depending on the network associated with the development
and the different links that are available and the different areas -- the different
ways the traffic can go. This is interesting, because you have two arterial streets
right there. So, there is little doubt that most of the travel through this specific
development will come to and through those arterial streets . I don't think that's in
question. Now, how much is going to go out from there to specific streets within
Tuscany, that can often be a difficult question and I would rely on the judgment of
the traffic engineers and the best of standards that they used and much more
than that I probably can't say.
Cavener: I appreciate your context. Thank you, Justin.
Bird: Thank you, Justin, very much.
Lucas: Thank you.
Bird: Tamara.
Thompson: President Bird, to answer your question regarding the R-8 versus R-
4. So, our intent is to have a residential development that is consistent with the
existing Tuscany development. So, if we could do something where we -- and I
know this is a policing thing that is probably difficult for staff, but if we could do
something where we maybe make that designation that, especially -- if I could
get to our concept plan. So, we did -- staff asked for a concept plan as far as
what -- of how the development could -- so, this is not before you as far as a
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preliminary plat, but they just want to see that we have thought enough about it
that, you know, roads and that kind of stuff could -- could go in here. So, one of
the -- one of the important things I want to mention is on the north property line --
so, north is up on this drawing. We tried to line up the property lines --
Bird: That's very smart.
Thompson: -- and in the R-4 those -- we couldn't do that any longer. You know,
it would be -- it would be different. So, because of that there is a big difference in
the lot sizes. So, if we could just tie like a concept plan in the development
agreement, but still have the R-8 and, then, you know, just make it clear that the
lot sizes need to be consistent and , then, what we -- so, I do want to state that R-
8 is what everything in -- in Tuscany is zoned. It lays out more of an R-4 to R-5,
which is what this northern portion does on this concept plan. The -- the single-
family units that we -- we have to the west, those look much smaller, but those
are right around R-6, so -- and that's what you're seeing in the patio homes in the
Tuscany is those are R-6 and -- and so that's -- you know, we brought that up at
P&Z that we can get that patio home concept, if that's what the city wants to see,
within the R-8 zone, that we don't have to go to the R-15, and they -- and they
agreed with that, but -- but we would like to have consistent and -- and if -- if the
zoning designation and the minimum lot size and dimensional standards are
different now than they were then, if we could just kind of tie that to what Tuscany
has and that it needs to be consistent or per our concept plan, something to that.
Bird: Tamara, what you're willing to do, then, is anything that ties -- backs up to
existing Tuscany houses, that you will try your best to make the lot sizes match .
Thompson: Yes, Mr. President.
Bird: Okay.
Thompson: Yes.
Bird: That -- that's very fair. Because most of Tuscany has got the old R-8
square footage and at the -- and we also had a frontage deal, so --
Thompson: Yeah. The dimensional standards are different.
Bird: -- if you're -- if you're willing to do that, I mean it's --
Thompson: Mr. President, that's what the intent has been is --
Bird: Okay. Thank you.
Thompson: -- with this concept plan.
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Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Any other questions?
Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: Tamara, just to clarify that as it looks -- were no attached housing in this
-- in this concept plan?
Thompson: Mr. President, Council Woman Milam, we designated in the narrative
that the -- the single-family units -- that those would be single family, but that, you
know, townhouses could -- I mean I used to live in an amazing townhouse
complex and, you know, you can do them nice. So, you know, that's -- that's up
to you. We would like the flexibility, knowing that the intent is to do something
nice. You know, Albertson's is landing here because this is a very affluent area
and they want to keep that. You know, that's their customer.
Bird: Any other questions for Tamara? Thanks, Tamara.
Thompson: Thank you.
Bird: Thank you very much. Council, what's your privilege?
Palmer: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Palmer.
Palmer: Just a few comments and, then, I will let others talk and see what they
have to -- what they have gained from it as well. When it comes to the -- the
connection to the subdivision, I have been staring at an aerial view -- I live in
Green Valley, if you're familiar with that, on the other side of Locust Grove, right
in the middle between Victory and Amity, and I have been staring at this aerial
shot trying to figure out a way that I would want to cut through Tuscany to get
there and there is absolutely no way I would rather go through that subdivision
than to just go down Locust Grove and up Amity to get there. It's not a similar
situation like what we have in Woodbridge where there is just one little jog in the
middle of the subdivision to get all the way from Eagle to Locust Grove . Tuscany
was -- was planned in a much more -- I guess traffic minded way in that no one is
going to want to cut through there, even given that we have right in the center of
it a city park. That's -- you know, I have some heartburn over putting city parks
in the middle of subdivisions, because I don't see the people from outside the
subdivision wanting to go there. I have driven past the park a few times trying to
assess this and I hardly ever see anybody there -- maybe I'm going at the wrong
time, but -- and so it's not -- it's certainly not one that I would frequent, because
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of the pain that it is to get there from where I'm at and so to go twice as far to get
to the -- the proposed development it's just absolutely not something I would do
and so I feel like connecting it to the subdivision is going to be to the benefit of
the residents of the subdivision in that they are going to get there, instead of
additional increase in traffic on the arterial roads just to come out and go right
back in and I feel that it benefits you and that you're not going to have people
from outside the subdivision wanting to cut through, because it's not an efficient
way to get through there.
Bird: Thank you. Anything else? Anybody else?
Cavener: Well --
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Maybe then, yeah, a couple comments and we hear your cynicism in
your voice and I understand that this has been a long process. There has been a
lot of comments made tonight that people feel that this decision has been made .
Well, if a decision was already made we wouldn't have sat here for three hours
asking questions and debating amongst ourselves . The frustration is is that
nobody is going to leave this room tonight feel ing like they got what they want.
You as neighbors aren't, because I will tell you what, I have heard tonight you
say we are a neighborhood where everybody walks and, then, I hear we drive
our kids, even though we live in the neighborhood , to the schools and to the
pools. We hear people say our neighborhood is safe and I hea r people say,
man, we got so much crime in our neighborhood. So, your frustrations are -- will
continue regardless of -- of the decisions that are made here tonight. Our goal
as Council Members is we are -- we are all parents and grandparents and
Council Member Palmer and myself -- Council Member Bird, while he wasn't born
here, he's lived here longer than any of us. You know, we have lived in this
community a long time and we have seen those changes in your neighborhood
and the problem with traff ic over that area, guess what, those problems occurred
because developments like Tuscany were developed -- developments like
Glacier Springs where I live down the street were developed and we impact
streets and the young woman who spoke that lives on the c orner of Amity, she's
been impacted by all of you guys. So, I understand that you're frustrated with --
with the process, but, in all honesty, the cynicism is being directed towards the
Council and the staff and development is unwarranted and unnecessary,
because we are just people that are up there that are trying to do what we think
is best for our entire community. So, I'm sorry that we don't have the ability to
always see things through your eyes, but, I will tell you what, this board -- we
have heard your comments, we have read your e-mails, we are involved in this
issue because we think it's important to our community and I firmly believe that
whatever decision this Council makes is because they think it's what's best. We
might agree, we might disagree, probably going to be both, but I take exception
when I start to hear comments from the peanut gallery that's questioning what
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the Council is doing. To Councilman Palmer's point, I -- Council Woman Milam
asked a question. Why -- why do we need the road and part of me thinks, man, if
I lived in this neighborhood I would be here saying why aren't you putting in the
bleeping road, because the road is what I would want. And I understand that for
you that are shaking your head saying that's not what you want, that's fine. I
think that -- I will tell you what, when I start to look at the -- the residential impact
and I start to hear comments about the safety on Montague Way and you look at
that residential piece that would access off Montague Way, boy, that creates a
traffic issue. That creates a safety or if the people that live in that proposed
residential don't have any other place to go. So, I sat down here thinking pull out
the darn road. Part of me now thinks when I look at the proposed residential
piece, we are going to -- the Council, when that piece comes before it, they are
going to say why didn't the Council before put in the road. So, I'm curious what
the rest of this Council thinks on this decision. You know, this is -- this is making
sausage at its finest and I think Councilman Milam asked somebody to run for
office -- boy, if you like making sausage I'd encourage you to run for office ,
because it's -- it's -- it's a once-in-a-lifetime process, because sometimes you
don't ever want to do it again.
Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: I am so torn on this, because I -- I have been -- I have been in your
shoes. I lived -- I will try to make this a short story, but the subdivision over by
Walmart off of Eagle Road -- and I remember somebody telling me that there
was a shortcut to Walmart and it was through my subdivision and at first I was
very unhappy, but -- however, if that road was not there that I could not go from
my place to Walmart and I had to go on Eagle Road and all the way around
Fairview to get there, I would never go there. It would be -- it would have been
worse and there wasn't really that much traffic. It was a few extra cars a day.
Honestly, it wasn't that bad. But the fact that he told me that it just ticked me off.
The last time we had a crowded house in here it was because they were doing a
zoning change, because there was supposed to be a commercial development
as part of the subdivision and they were changing i t to residential and just like
you're here, all the neighbors were here and they were mad and they said we
looked at the map and it was going to be commercial and we were going to have
shopping and we were going to have restaurants and -- so, equally as upset as
you are for the opposite reason, they were here. But they wanted it -- anyway.
So, change is hard and -- but it's inevitable and -- I don't know where I'm going
with that. But I just wanted to point out -- I think the road would be more
beneficial to the neighborhood than -- than you guys realize. So, I think
Albertson's is a great neighbor. I have owned a business in an Albertson's
shopping center and they -- they are a good anchor. They do choose good
business partners for the most part. So, you have a little faith and a little trust
and hope that they -- that they get you some good places in there, so --
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Bird: Any other questions?
Nary: Mr. President? Mr. President, Members of the Council, if I could address
one issue that's come up twice that is not before you, so it does not -- you have
heard it, but I think the folks here need to hear. The street name change
application is not in front of you. That is a different section of the code. It's
actually a decision made by the Planning and Zoning Commission after public
notice and a public hearing. So, that was brought up two different times by folks
wanting you to make that decision tonight. That is not before you. So, I just
wanted to make that clear both for you and the members of the audience that
there is a process. The application was filled out. There is a street naming
process that goes through Ada County before it comes back to the Planning and
Zoning Commission. There is the right to appeal that decision if people are
unhappy with what the Planning and Zoning Commission decide on the street
name, but I just wanted to clarify that while the people were still here that that's
not before you tonight and that's not part of your decision.
Bird: Thank you, Mr. Nary. Council, I think one of the biggest things for me -- I
would like to see the right-in and right-out only be allowed on Eagle and Amity,
because they are very safe -- if you go down -- if you go down Eagle Road now
and we all know that that's probably one of the busiest streets in the state of
Idaho and if there isn't a light there it's usually just a right-in and right-out. We
had at The Villages -- we made a -- or somebody made a mistake -- that we tried
to have a -- a complete deal without lights and it didn't work out. So, we -- our
police officers were there all the time with wrecks. But I would encourage that.
On the stub road, we have always -- and I think if you go back to look at the
Tuscany plans, that road showed being stubbed. We -- we have always done
that, made stub roads, so that they can attach. You know they are going to
attach. You don't know what you're going to get, but I -- I think that it's very
important that we go to the right-in and right-out on Eagle and Amity. And with
that, Council, what's your pleasure?
Palmer: Mr. President, question for you. So, do you mean on Belleeza --
Bird: Eagle and Amity. The right-in, right-outs.
Palmer: The ones that they are already planning, but do you also mean on the --
Bird: This one there and that one. And we got to get this one --
Palmer: Okay.
Bird: -- and that one. Any other statements before we close the public hearing?
Cavener: Mr. President?
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Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move we close the public hearing -- man, I have got so many notes
here on Item 7-A.
Milam: Second.
Bird: I have got a motion and a second to close the public hearing on H -2016-
0102. All in favor say aye. Any opposed?
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Cavener: See what happens here. Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: I move that we approve 7-A, H-2016-0102 and strike condition
1.1.1H. Maybe a quick question for staff if I may before I finished that motion.
Josh, you had indicated we wouldn't be approving a mixed use development if
we pull out the L-O. Did I hear that correct? Or if we change L-O to a --
Bird: C-G.
Cavener: -- to a C-C.
Beach: So, are -- sorry to --
Cavener: That's okay. I'm --
Beach: Just to clarify are you asking me if -- by staff's definition it's no longer a
mixed use development or are you saying that you can't approve the
development if it's this way?
Cavener: My question is can we approve the development with only two land
use designations.
Beach: So, that may be a better question for Mr. Nary.
Cavener: Probably.
Nary: Mr. President, Members of the Council, I think when you approve the
mixed use designation it will require -- and I think Ms. Thompson testified -- they
will have three uses, they just didn't want to be bound that they had -- that one of
the uses had to be there. What I would suggest in your motion is that we will
work with the applicant in the development agreement to create a trigger of some
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sort, so that way you don't end up with a situation five years down the road where
they said we have used up all the development and we don't have anywhere to
put offices anymore. So, that there is some trigger that that third use has to be
engaged at some point in the development process and we will figure out that
language in the DA.
Cavener: All right. So, Mr. President, if I may?
Bird: Go ahead.
Cavener: With including that information I move we approve 7-A, striking
Condition 1.1.1H and ask Planning and Legal staff to work with the applicant to
establish a trigger based on testimony we have heard today. And, then, I believe
it's one point -- and include 1.1.8, which I believe is the approval for the right-in,
right-outs as discussed by the applicant and staff and Council. Sure, we can
include the site concept plan within our findings as well. I don't have any issues
with that. I don't know if we will get a second.
Palmer: Second.
Bird: Okay. We got a motion and a second to approve it with the exceptions.
Mr. Clerk, will you call roll.
Roll Call: Bird, yea; Borton, absent; Milam, yea; Cavener, yea; Palmer, yea;
Little Roberts, yea.
Bird:: All ayes. Motion carried.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Item 8: Department Reports
A. Update on Emergency Operations in Response to Storm
Event
Bird: Thank you very much. Okay. Department Reports. Item 8-A. Sergeant,
are you -- or, lieutenant, are you going to do that? I'm sorry.
Colaianni: Good evening, President Bird, Council Members. I know you're
probably ready to talk about snow now; right?
Bird: It looks like we got it coming.
Colaianni: So, I just want give Council the time -- last Tuesday Chief Niemeyer
was in front of you all, we were talking about where we would be at a week from
now and he's asked me to step in tonight and speak on his behalf. So, this is an
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update from last week to this week. We still have our incident management team
together. It's still comprised of Fire, Police, Parks, Public Works,
Communications, the Mayor's office, and a number of other people that are
helping us put these incident plans together each and every day. We are still
meeting at 10:00 o'clock in the morning and 2:00 o'clock in the afternoon to go
over our plans. We have Ada County Highway District with us still and today Joe
Lombardo from Ada County Emergency Management joine d us in our meeting
and we are communicating daily with the W eather Service. So, one of the things
I want to point out moving forward is the next 48 hours are going to be critical for
us in terms of the weather. The Weather Service has been changing their
weather update almost hourly. The last report we had is that the storm that was
coming in there is about an inch -- what they consider an inch of moisture in the
clouds coming through, which if it were all to turn to snow it could give us
anywhere from four to eight inches of snow, give or take. The question is the
timing of the storm. We have an inversion in the valley. Everything is cold is
being held on the floor. If the storm is strong enough initially to push this out,
then, we are going to have more rain and less snow. If that doesn't happen,
then, we can expect -- expect a pretty heavy snow period in the next 48 hours.
So, I only tell you that because there is a -- there is a few things that are going to
happen. Right now our objectives are still clearing the sidewalks. We have
identified our priority sidewalks. We started around the middle schools. We
focused on elementary schools, the big areas where we have a lot of pedestrian
traffic, and we continue to work on those every day. Flooding. We don't have
the flooding issue we did a weeks ago, because, obviously, it's gotten colder, but
as the snow increases -- if we have that we are going to have to pull back, we
are going to move our resources back to critical infrastructure, which is fire
departments, police departments, and clearing those roadways and starting all
over again getting to those sidewalks to clear those for schools. The trigger is
about three inches. So, if it's three inches then we will have to pull resources
back and start all over with the critical infrastructure and sidewalks. If there is a
little bit less then we will be okay to kind of continue to move forward. We -- each
day we meet, we identify sidewalk areas, we take the input that's coming in from
the hotlines where we are getting a lot of clusters of people that want sidewalks
cleared on those main roadways. We are talking about Meridian and 8th Street
and Cherry and the Ten Mile area and stuff like that. So, we put our resources
there. And I think we have been really successful with that pattern. We have
been able to leverage IT in using our GIS maps to do layering to identify where
our sidewalks are at, what we have completed, what we are working on and that
has been very helpful to -- to get us through this process. So, our hotline has
been running about a week, Jaycee?
Holman: Yes. Yes, it was up and running Wednesday afternoon.
Colaianni: Yeah. So, we are just about a week in. So, we have ingested 310
calls and e-mails and as we go through these calls we , as an organization, as a
group that have come together -- and they are all kind of experts in their field,
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very smart people, we are categorizing these calls ones, twos, threes and fours.
The ones are the calls where people have been plowed in and they are -- they
are elderly or they have some sort of health condition and they have a three foot
ice wall in front of their driveway. I'm sure some of you have heard those
complaints and we are looking at those people and reaching out to them first.
So, we are actually sending -- in some cases a paramedic and an officer over to
that house to bang on the door to look at the situation , to take photographs to
confirm or dispel this is what we have going o n. So, those are our priority ones,
the people that need our immediate attention. Priority twos are those people that
have doctor's appointments in the coming days, have some sort of healthcare
coming in, those types of things. We are ranking those up there as well and
confirming those. Priority threes -- if we get a call that's a pharmacy or a grocery
store or some sort of business that requires access from the public and such to
get prescriptions and stuff, we are -- we are reaching out to those people as well.
And, then, priority fours is pretty much everything else. Those are the people
that want to have their road plowed again, because they didn't care for the way it
was done the first time. Those lower level things. Those we -- because of the
large number of them we can't reach out to every one of them . The point I give
you all that is because we are able and have done -- we have addressed every
priority one, every priority two, and every priority three. We have sent people out
to those homes and I will give you a couple examples. We had a lady whose
husband needed to get to the VA and she 's 70, he's 70, and the plow came by
and there was a three foot ice wall in front of their house and they just couldn't
get out. I picked up the phone over the weekend, called the Ada County
Highway District, and they sent a crew out and cleared it. So, the teamwork, Ada
County Highway District, everybody that's been involved with this has been
phenomenal. For me to be able to do that on a Saturday or Sunday and Tim
from Ada County Highway District says I will take care of it and I get an e-mail
back it's cleared. So, we are able to do those things. We haven't been able to
hit all the priority fours. Those are just -- there is just simply too many of those.
But we go out and look at it. We are looking at the roadways. So, ACHD is in 24
hour mode again starting at 2:00 o'clock in the morning. They are spending
approximately 250,000 dollars a day to keep things moving on the roadways.
Quarter of a million dollars. So, starting at 2:00 o'clock we are going back to 24-
hour operations because of the incoming storm. They are going to be de-icing,
they are going to be moving through the roadways. They have taken over our
contract operations and they have adjusted them on their side, so they will be
dealing with them directly on billing and such. We are out of that business now.
So, everything that we were in they are handling now, which is a huge burden off
Dale and our group. They are going to manage all that now. We are very
grateful for that. So, they are going to de-ice, they are going to work the roads.
If we get more than three inches or four inches and it starts to build on us, they
are going to activate those graders and get those people going again and they
are going to start working the roads in subdivisions and getting back out there
again. They pledged that to us and I do believe that. They are listening and
every time we reach out to them they have been money for us. So, if we don't hit
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those triggers, if we don't see that large amount of snow, they are going to
continue to focus on cleaning up the subdivisions and anything that may need
additional clean up and coming back through. If we do hit them, then, we will
start going through all that again. Sidewalks and pathways internally is what we
are going to focus on and we will continue until we have to divert otherwise. I
didn't -- is Keith here? Did Keith show up? Okay. I'm going to let Keith talk to
the finances -- thank you. I'm going to let Keith talk to the finances. He's better
at that. Granite and Titan, again, have been turned over to the Ada County
Highway District, so just a couple of things. There has been a lot of questions
about what thresholds have to be reached before we can do -- before we can go
to the state and ask them for reimbursement and go to the feds and stuff . So, we
met with Joe Lombardo today. The triggers are -- there has to be a 1.4 million
dollars in declaration here in Ada County or 2.4 million statewide in order to
trigger the county to go to the state, who, then, can go to the feds and we can
start talking about reimbursements. The thing that we don't know -- the little
nuances is what counts towards that fund. Is it revenue? Is it resources?
Because certainly Ada county has blown their budget two fold to go out and do
these roads. They budgeted I think somewhere in the neighborhood of 1.2, 1.4
million and they are already up to four million. They did tell us that they have
realized about seven million dollars in savings from other roadway projects, so
there was some money there that they can utilize to continue to move forward,
but we don't know what's going to hold for the next three weeks . All the weather
is telling us is that it's going to be a turbulent three weeks for us in this area . On
again, off again rain, snow, we just don't know what it's going to be like. But
there is still a number of steps that have to happen before we can do th at and all
those people that know that, all those resources are in place. You guys should
be very proud, the fantastic staff at City Hall and all the people that work here
have just been phenomenal. We pulled this together better than I think anybody
else has done it in the valley. My opinion only. So, with that I'm going to stand
for any specific questions and, then, let Keith talk about the financial piece.
Bird: Any questions for lieutenant?
Cavener: Mr. President?
Bird: Mr. Cavener.
Cavener: Scott, last -- last week chief talked about that with the Council's
reallocation of funding that we were going to start hitting a lot of the area in south
Meridian, as well as I believe there was a neighborhood that kind of intersected
with the city of Boise, so I was hoping you could just provide me an update on
what our efforts have been in those specific areas .
Colaianni: Yeah. Absolutely. So that the -- the fragmented area that was kind of
half and half, it got done.
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Cavener: Great.
Colaianni: We picked up the phone, called, and it got done. South Meridian, to
the best of my knowledge, they covered all of that. Now, I say that, because I
asked this exact question today, because I knew this would come up. I asked
Tim -- I said so that is a hundred percent and he's like, well, we are 99 percent.
He goes I can't tell you if we missed a cul-de-sac or a roadway. He goes if we
did you pick up the phone, let me know, we will go back out and clea n it. So,
they are very confident with the contractors and with their staff that they have 99
percent of it done.
Cavener: Mr. President, maybe a quick follow up. Is it safe, then, for us to say
that 99.9 percent of the City of Meridian has been plowed?
Colaianni: Yes, sir.
Cavener: And if there -- if our residents feel that their spot was missed call the
hotline --
Colaianni: Call the hotline. If you know the resident, reach out -- reach out to me
personally, we will take care of it.
Cavener: That's incredible.
Colaianni: It is.
Cavener: I want you to know at least from one Council Member's perspective, I
recognize the feat and the amount of people involved and I just think that's
incredible that a city of our size has been able to accomplish that.
Colaianni: Yeah. I do, too. And I was on the --
Cavener: Kudos to the team.
Colaianni: Thank you. I was on call all weekend. I was the IC all weekend and
so I got to field a lot of the e -mails and everything that came in and so -- but it
was a good collaborative effort. We put it together really well. I don't know -- I
can't tell you how long this is going to go. How long do we go? How much
money? You know, what's the process? We simply don't know. I will tell you
this: We are going to know a lot more in 48 hours. If this isn't bad we should be
able to start ramping down and we have in some sense started ramping down a
little bit, but I think there will be light at the end of the tunnel. Hopefully not a
blizzard.
Cavener: Mr. President? One more question if I may.
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January 17, 2017
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Colaianni: Yes, sir.
Cavener: Also last week the chief updated us about concerns about potential
flooding. Where are we at as far as -- are those concerns still as critical as they
were a week ago? Greater? Less than?
Colaianni: Good question. So, no, they are not right now. However, given the
fact that it is going to warm up, one of the things we have activated starting
tomorrow is our sandbag operations. They are going to go run from 12:00
o'clock until 8:00 o'clock. The sand has already been dropped behind the Public
Safety Training Center there at the PD on the secured side. There will be a
command post there -- excuse me -- manned by fire. Citizens, then, could come,
we will verify that they are in the City of Meridian, they will be allotted ten bags
and they can fill their sand bags and leave. We will have shovels there. We will
help them if they need help, so they can take sandbags to their location. Now,
we have about 3,000 sandbags and that's only 300 homes, we recognize that, so
we are working to try and secure some more sandbags, but we have had to divvy
them up between Boise, Eagle, Star and those different areas.
Cavener: Sure.
Colaianni: But we are moving to sandbagging to prepare for that just
contingency if it gets warm. It's all set up ready to go starting tomorrow at noon
and if you want to swing by you can sure see the operation . So, we are going to
be tracking that as well.
Milam: Mr. President?
Bird: Mrs. Milam.
Milam: What are the hours of that?
Colaianni: 12:00 to 8:00.
Milam: 12:00 to 8:00. Okay.
Colaianni: Yes. 12:00 to 8:00.
Milam: Thank you. And wonderful teamwork that you guys have done. We
really appreciate it.
Colaianni: Thank you. I will turn it over to Keith.
Bird: Thank you, lieutenant. Thanks for your leadership.
Colaianni: I appreciate it.
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Bird: We appreciate it.
Colaianni: Thank you.
Watts: Hi, Council President, Council Members. Currently we have obligated
about 117,000 dollars -- or authorized about 117,000 and of that we had 68,880
dollars that were assigned just to those loaders to clean the city's cul-de-sacs
and that -- that task has ceased at this moment, so they are done. They have
actually wrapped up and invoiced the city -- or in the process of invoicing the city,
but we do have their man hours, so we have those totals and that -- the cul-de-
sac cleanup, essentially, came up to 47,040 dollars. We still have 21,840 dollars
left on the POs to both Titan and Granite combined and if it turns out to be a
large event and we have to use those, we have that money readily available and
ACHD will turn those guy loose. They are in contact with those contractors. The
city won't have to do anything. ACHD will make that contact and I spoke to both
those contractors today and they are standing by waiting for a call from ACHD.
The rest of it is equipment maintenance -- or equipment rentals that we have got.
We have kept some of them -- like we talked about before, we kept that
equipment rental for this next week, just so we wouldn't lose it and not be able to
get it back and with that and some contracted labor from Hemker and Franz
Witte to do the sidewalk cleanup for right now, like I said, we are around 117,000
dollars out of the 200,000. What has not been in this total is any city overtime
labor or labor in general to cover this and we are keeping that separate. We will
track it as a separate issue and I believe that was how Council would like us to
do that. This is for contracted labor only. I am constantly working with our own
staff to keep these funds for this. I get multiple calls every day -- can we use
those funds for this, can we use it for that. No, it's not any preventative. This is
strictly for this emergency event. So, we are -- we are maintaining those funds
just for this and we will -- the building maintenance items that -- there have been
multiple building maintenance issues related to the storm. We are going to track
that with the project numbers, so we will be able to give you a total of what the
storm-related damages actually were, but we will keep the 200,000 with our
contractors totally separate.
Bird: I understand that. Keith -- and I hope that you will make sure that these
bills from these private contractors are expedited through, so they get their
money, because they are paying their people overtime and stuff and, you know,
they are having to do that on a weekly basis. So, let's make sure we don't drag
out -- let's make sure when we get the bill that it's okayed by our team, let's get it
paid.
Watts: Absolutely.
Nary: Mr. President? Mr. President, Members of the Council, just to add onto
what Keith said, you know, one of the things that we felt was important and we
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made sure that -- you know, we have contracts with all of these folks. So, I mean
we still adhere to the same requirements of contracting. We have had -- to this
point we have had very little other related snow damage , either to city property,
city buildings, or private property. We have had a couple of claims -- pretty
small. We had some that maybe are going to -- may be significant in regards to
building damage and we have submitted those to our insurer. So, we have been
tracking all of these things. I think probably at the end of this is our after-action
item we will be able to report to you all the varieties of things we have talked
about, the costs we have expended, the costs related to overtime, costs related
to city facilities, those types of things, but we are tracking all of those.
Bird: Thank you very much, Mr. Nary. Thank you, Keith.
Cavener: Mr. President? I know that we probably want to wrap things up, but,
Keith, do you have projections on overtime costs?
Watts: Currently from the Parks Department -- what I have done is I have taken
the estimated man hours and I have broken that -- I actually looked at all the
maintenance staff salaries. There is four different levels, combined them, took
an average and calculated -- calculated that by the 420 hours. So, I'm estimating
about 21,000 just for Parks overtime. That's not regular time, that's just the
overtime hours that Parks has spent. I do not have anything from Fire or Police
as of yet, but I know -- and Public Works, although all three of those will have
hours associated to this project as well.
Cavener: Then, Mr. President, one more just to clarify that. Our previous
contractors are working currently with ACHD, but when this next storm comes we
have the ability to have them come back into operations that focus specifically on
city-related --
Watts: Correct. And they are on standby right now. They have pulled off. They
are done. Completed like -- as Scott had said, they have -- we have completed
about 99.9 percent. They are on standby for if they are needed again.
Cavener: Great.
Bird: Anything else? Thank you, Keith. Appreciate it. Thank you, lieutenant.
Colaianni: Could I -- just one -- just to make sure we are really clear. So,
Granite and Titan are under ACHD now and they are going to be housed out of
the Cloverdale location. So, if they activate them again they are going to keep
them in this geographic area like they have been to work on the area . They are
not going to send them all over Boise, just because they are under their span of
control. I wanted to make sure that nuance was clear.
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Watts: Correct. They are contracted with us. ACHD directs them strictly for city
operation.
Cavener: Mr. President, maybe just one more comment and this just goes to our
communication team. I think that the public outreach that the city's had on this
has been remarkable from getting information out on the phone line , the stories
on the media about what our employees are doing , Fire, Police, Parks, Public
Works -- you know, I really think that we are the envy of other municipalities and
when I talk to my friends and colleagues who live in Boise and Eagle and Kuna
and Star and -- and Idaho Falls, I know that all those communities are struggling
as well, but when -- when we are able to effectively communicate and solve the
issues, I just think it's really, really remarkable and something that all city
employees should be really proud of . So, thanks again for the update tonight. I
really appreciate it.
Watts: Thank you. I kind of tooted our horn around my neighborhood and
everybody was absolutely thrilled to find out that that was actually a city
operation that was cleaning up the neighborhood and the cul-de-sac, so --
Bird: I think everybody has stepped to the forefront on this and our leadership
has been unreal in the City of Meridian as far as I'm concerned.
Item 9: Future Meeting Topics
Bird: Anyway, anything for future meeting topics? I will tell you, Thursday, the
19th, we have retirement party at 3:00 o'clock here for a police officer that has
done a fantastic job with the City of Meridian and hope we can all make it there
and --
Cavener: If we don't show does he not retire?
Bird: I don't think that's going to happen. I think -- I think he's -- I think he's
ready to retire. Okay. With that I would entertain a motion to adjourn.
Milam: So moved.
Cavener: Second.
Bird: All in favor?
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Bird: Good night. Thank you guys.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:28 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS)
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