2019-09-19Meridian Planning and Zoning Meeting September 19, 2019.
Meeting of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission of September 19, 2019, was
called to order at 6:00 p.m. by Chairman Jessica Perreault.
Members Present: Chairman Jessica Perreault, Commissioner Rhonda McCarvel,
Commissioner Lisa Holland, Commissioner Ryan Fitzgerald, Commissioner Bill Cassinelli
and Commissioner Andrew Seal.
Members Absent: Commissioner Reid Olsen.
Others Present: Adrienne Weatherly, Andrea Pogue, Caleb Hood, Brian McClure, Bill
Parsons, Kevin Holmes and Dean Willis.
Item 1: Roll -call Attendance
_X Lisa Holland Reid Olsen
_X Andrew Seal X Ryan Fitzgerald
_X Rhonda McCarvel X Bill Cassinelli
X Jessica Perreault - Chairman
Perreault: Okay. Sorry for the delay. Thank you for your patience. Good evening, ladies
and gentlemen. At this time I would like to call to order the regularly scheduled meeting
of the Meridian Planning and Zoning Commission for September 19th, 2019. Let's begin
with roll call.
Item 2: Adoption of Agenda
Perreault: At this time can I get a motion to adopt the agenda?
Holland: So moved.
Fitzgerald: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to adopt the agenda. All those in favor say
aye. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Item 3: Consent Agenda [Action Item]
A. Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law for Elevate Franklin
Storage (H-2019-0076) by Ten Mile Development, LLC,
Located at 3755 W. Perugia St.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 2 of 60
Perreault: Next item is the Consent Agenda. Letter A,
Law for Elevate Franklin Storage, H-2019-0076, by Ten
a motion to accept the Consent Agenda as presented?
Holland: So moved.
Cassinelli: Second.
Fitzgerald: Second.
Findings of Fact, Conclusions of
Mile Development. Could I get
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to accept the Consent Agenda. All those in
favor say aye. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: FIVE AYES. TWO ABSENT.
Item 4: Other Items
A. New Comprehensive Plan Update
Perreault: Okay. I'm going to hold off on explaining the -- the public hearing process until
after we -- until after we go through Section -- or Item No. 4, excuse me, which is the new
comp plan update and the open space survey discussion, so that that process is fresh in
everybody's minds before we take public testimony. So, if the staff would like to proceed
with those that would be fantastic.
Hood: Good evening, Madam Chair, Members at the Commission. Caleb Hood, planning
division manager for the city. It's my pleasure tonight, before we jump into the Items A
and B on your agenda I want to introduce you to Tori Cleary. Comes to us from Orange,
California. She is our new economic development administrator. So, very happy to have
her. It's a position we have been searching for for a while and real happy -- she's in day
four now, so take it easy on her today if you have any questions for her. First week. But
so far she's come in, hit the ground running. We had an employee recently that used the
analogy it's like drinking from a firehose, but it's got sweet, sweet Kool Aid. So, she's
really -- you know, I'm sure she's trying to take it all in and that's a bit much, but she's
trying to -- trying to do that. So, anyways, I will let her maybe introduce a little bit more
about herself, but if you would join me in welcoming her anyways to the team.
Cleary: Thank you. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, yes, as Caleb said,
come from Orange, California, where I was their redevelopment and economic
development project manager. Worked on everything from bringing in industrial
businesses, service businesses and we also had a downtown that was very similar to
Meridian. So, it's very exciting for me to see the opportunities that are here. In fact, it's
just exciting to be here at a place where you really do have a lot of enviable opportunities
and I look forward to implementing some of the strategies that are contained in the
Comprehensive Plan, the city strategic plan, and economic development strategy. Got
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 3 of 60
some really good planning documents in place for me to follow and just hope I can bring
back some -- some successes. So, thank you.
Hood: All right. So, thank you. We will jump in, then, to the official agenda here. Again,
Caleb Hood, Brian McClure in -- in Planning. Brian has been the project manager on the
Comprehensive Plan, so he's -- he's going to -- we are going to kind of tag team this a
little bit, but he's been -- we have both been working on it for the past couple of years, but
he's really been every step of the way involved in this thing. So, I have just been more
participating and kind of watching things, but in advance of the public hearing you all are
going to have here in about a month -- October 17th is that hearing date -- we wanted to
review with you and, basically, close out the existing Comprehensive Plan that we have,
although it's still going to be in effect until the City Council adopts a new comprehensive
plan, but we are trying to kind of separate some of the existing things from the new future
things that we will be talking about here next month, rather than bogging down that public
hearing with trying to do both. We thought it would be a good opportunity to come in
again, close out kind of the existing Comprehensive Plan and, then, cover some of the
process and timeline of what we have been doing on the Comprehensive Plan. I know
we have been here a couple times, so, hopefully, you're like, well, we are developing a
new Comprehensive Plan, I didn't know, but we are getting to the finish line, so we wanted
to, again, touch base and kind of run through that all again with you, so you're as
comfortable as possible going into that public hearing here. All right. So, the current plan
is -- this slide or some version of the slide we have actually shown to you before, but the
current Comprehensive Plan, the policies contained therein, was largely adopted in 2002.
Most of that work was done in 1989, 2000, even in 2001. It's not the same community
we were back then. We even did a major reformat and update in 2010, 2011, adopted in
2011. Again, we have changed pretty significantly in that -- since that amount of time,
too, and we do touch it, so we thought as staff it's -- it's pretty current, but there has been
enough change in our community and new folks in our community and businesses in our
community where the Mayor and Council about 18 months ago said we need -- we need
to start over and basically develop a new plan. So, again, that's what we have been
working on for the last 18 months or so or even, really, closer to two years. We envision
keeping the same structure where we have the Comprehensive Plan itself that has the
forward looking policies and things you're familiar with and staff reports and, then, having
existing conditions report that talks about who we are as a community, a lot of the
demographics, information on our parks and how many fire departments we have -- or
fire stations we have and things like that. So, we envision keeping that structure, but the
new plan will have a little bit different format and we will get into that again with the new
-- when we talk about the new plan more. As part of this hearing tonight we did send you
a memo, an attachment that had 69 pages worth of policies. So, let's get going on those.
No. We sent them to you. There was a clarifying question earlier, hey, what's the
expectation for tonight. Wanted to make it just available to you. If there is any one or two
or three that you really had an affinity to historically and you want to make sure it shows
up in the new plan you can -- we just verify that or, you know, it's there, so you can see
how they have changed and modified or removed or are continuing on. So, I will kind of
pause and see if there are any of those you really want to get into. That wasn't my intent
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 4 of 60
tonight to go through that page by page or line item by line item, but we can if you have
any questions about any of the existing policies and plans.
Perreault: Commissioners, is there anything burning this evening that we want to
discuss? Okay. Thank you.
Hood: Okay. So, a little bit more, then, on planned development process and some of
the milestones we have had. So, we did hire Logan Simpson out of Fort Collins, Colorado,
to be our consultant on this project. We had three, I think, proposals that were submitted
and interviewed those teams and this team was selected. This certainly doesn't cover
everything in the scope of work they have with the city, but they did have two subs on the
projects, so Leland did a lot of the market analysis and, then, Kittelson and Associates,
who is -- has a Boise office, helped on some of the transportation corridor analysis. But
just a few of the things that they really helped us move forward was public involvement
and developing a project website. The steering committee agendas and milestones -- we
heard comments earlier this week that that was a positive takeaway, that they really kind
of kept us on track, we knew what to expect as a steering committee. Here is what we
are trying to accomplish this month. This is where we need to be next month and even
looking at the quarter after that. So, there were some goals that were -- that were set up
to keep the project kind of on -- on time and, then, they have been tracking and help
developing the draft plan and getting ready to turn that over to us. There is a couple of
other deliverables we will talk about here in a minute, too, but -- so, we did set up a
steering committee. The Mayor basically invited 22 community members to meet monthly
with us and oversee the project. We had stakeholders with all kinds of different
backgrounds. We had agency representatives, ACHD, the school district, Ada county,
residents, commercial -- commercial real estate brokers, engineers and developers. So,
pretty -- you know, as you can imagine we didn't always agree on everything, but some
good dialogue and, again, kind of what we talked about a little bit as we did our final
steering committee meeting. There is passion and appreciation and respect we still have
for each other. So, it was a good group to work with. That group, then, we kind of broke
up and I don't think all members of that served on a focus group, but there were four areas
that we really dug down into more the weeds on than others. Community design,
economic development, housing and transportation -- housing and transportation that
wasn't one group. So, I did the transportation group, Brian did the community design and
housing and, then, Cameron did economic development. So, each one of those kind of
subcommittees, again, we looked at markets, looked at corridors, really trying to help
understand what those policies might be to drive our community forward and, then, some
map changes, too, that were also talked about with those focus groups. So, the draft plan
that you're going to see on the 17th is the steering committee's recommended
Comprehensive Plan. We are going to run a staff report like we would any other
application. So, we might be recommending some tweaks to it, but, essentially, what you
will be reviewing is the community's plan. It's what we have been doing with our
stakeholders for the past 18 months and it's really, again, at this point something that we
think largely represents what we heard from the public. I will jump down to the -- the last
several sub bullets, there under public outreach. No, not a hundred percent of everyone
agrees with it, though. A city of 120,000 people you're going to have some people here
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 5 of 60
that are going to want to address something with you, because they are not happy about
something. But I think we have done a pretty good job of gaining consensus,
understanding what the needs are and generally portraying a vision for our community
that is representative of most all and I think, again, what you will hear during that hearing
is the folks that do come are probably not going to talk about the policies, they are going
to talk about a change they want the future land use map on their property or their
neighbor's property or something, so -- but, again, we did extensive public outreach,
engage with the website, used our communication staff up in the Mayor's office to help
us get the word out to anybody that was interested that we hear -- and we want to hear
from you and here is kind of a higher level scope of work. So, before we hired Logan
Simpson, the Council, again, I mentioned said, hey, go develop this plan, you have two
years to get it done. We started as staff before even getting going with, you know, putting
together the RFP, doing an audit of our plans, looking at some of the existing studies and
whatnot, just making sure we had a good foundation to move forward with developing a
new plan. Don't need to read the whole slide to you, I guess. So, there is more of the
key focus elements and, then, those focus areas I mentioned, strategic growth
management and public services and I will do a little bit more on that, too, but where our
are existing services and where do we envision future services. So, there can be orderly
development of our community and, then, a comprehensive impact of growth and we had
-- Council had a joint meeting with Ada county earlier this week and had a little bit of talk
about impact of growth, notjust on Meridian, but on the valley, on Ada and Canyon county
and some of the costs of growth and, then, transportation and economic development.
know you all have been driving the roads around here and they are becoming more and
more congested. That's what we hear about in the complaints we get with growth and so
what can we do as a community to -- to the best we can work with our transportation
friends and make sure that the network is as robust as possible, as safe as possible, can
still move goods and services and people as efficiently as possible. So, we have
developed a master mobility map and I will -- I will show you a slide on that, too, in a
minute. And, then, there were four areas that we called out in the contract with Logan
Simpson to look at us. That's the Fields. So, that's the northwest Meridian on the other
side of a future State Highway 16. Southwest. So, south of the freeway, generally west
of Linder. The southern rim, which is that rim that kind of basically goes from Ten Mile -
Overland at a roughly 45 degree angle down to Boise Ranch golf course, basically, to
kind of see that picture there in your mind. And, then, what we call Magic Bridge. Magic
View Drive or Woodbridge Subdivision and put that at Magic Bridge. So, that area.
Basically Eagle, Locust Grove, Franklin and 1-84 section right in there. Kind of behind the
hotels and some of the medical office complex. There is some areas back in there that
just have been stagnant and so we really wanted to look at that, what can we do to maybe
facilitate development or redevelopment and some of those parcels back there. So,
anyways, we asked them to look at -- look at some of that, too. And I already touched on
the focus groups. And, obviously, we have to comply with Idaho Code for developing the
comprehensive plan. Here is the timeline. I don't think I really have any -- anything to
note. I have kind of been rambling on about the timeline throughout my presentation so
far. So, jump to that master mobility map that I mentioned just on the previous slide. So,
basically, what this does is it takes all -- you know, ACHD, ITD, VRT, the city's pathway
network and puts it all in one place. So, we have access to the existing conditions, so we
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 6 of 60
know where the existing sidewalks are, the existing bus stops, the existing -- you know,
again, street -related infrastructure and services and, then, the plans that those agencies
have for the next up to 20 years. No one's really planning outside of 20 years, but the
idea with this is that we take that information we have now and, then, we as a city develop
what the next round of infrastructure should be. So, that those agencies inherit what we
have developed as a community, what we want those roads to look like as they looked to
the next five years out after they build the first five years and they are still in 20 year
buckets, but we have a plan for what we want those roads to look like and bus routes to
look like and whatever. So, it kind of puts it in one place. And, then, if you're a business
owner or a resident and you're like I would like to buy a house there, but this road is two
lanes wide, you can go to this, you can look at it, oh, okay, it's -- it's supposed to be
widened in the next ten years or whatever. So, there is different ways you could use this.
It is also consistent with the city's strategic plan. This is a GIS based document, so we
will have to maintain it, but, again, we brought it all kind of in-house, so it's -- all the
transportation -related things are in one -- one place, so we are excited about -- about this
tool and we will need to work on it, but it's -- I think just out the gate and it will be -- will be
helpful. I should mention if there is any questions along the way feel free to interrupt, too.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Caleb, I actually have a question.
Hood: All right.
Cassinelli: Was ACHD and ITD part of the -- especially the transportation?
Hood: Yeah. Absolutely. Madam Chair. Justin Lucas was a pretty regular member on
both the steering committee, so the monthly -- the 14 meetings we had and, then, on the
focus group I don't recall if they missed maybe one of those focus group meetings, but,
yeah, they were definitely at the table and I have gone to ACHD, too, and talked to their
commission about this project and kept them up to speed on -- on what we were doing in
developing these things. And on -- that even kind of segues into -- not the next slide, but
two slides from now I will come back to ACHD, too.
Perreault: Caleb, before you proceed I would like to -- the record to show that
Commissioner McCarvel is now present. Thank you.
Hood: And this one I will probably breeze through it really quick, but we have a Meridian
Welcome -- Welcome to Meridian signage plan. We have historically had it, although the
plan has been more of a map than a plan and so that was some of what the Council
requested was, hey, go develop some text that explains why the plan, why this map exists,
where we are going to put these signs over time. So, that's what we have done is, yeah,
put why are we -- why do we have the signage plan? How do we plan to implement it?
What are the specifications for when you put a sign up. So, this isn't in the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 7 of 60
Comprehensive Plan, but it's alluded to in the Comprehensive Plan. So, just so you're
aware we will have a Welcome to Meridian signage plan pending Council approval of a
resolution. So, this is the slide. The service impact. So, this is one where we worked
with -- with ACHD. Primarily this shows the relationship of services to any given parcel
within our area of impact. So, it's -- it's a heat map, so the red are the parcel, the orange
or darker the red, the darker the orange, the more services are either directly adjacent or
close proximity to that particular parcel. So, things like sewer, water, schools, pathways,
roads. And, again, you get points, if you will, or -- or a darker color if the roadway is
already widened to five roads you get, you know, full points. If it's planned to be widened
in the next five years you get two or three points and if it's in the 20 year plan you get one
point or a negative point. So, it's meant to show are the services there now that you
need? Are they coming in the foreseeable future? Or are they further out? And I'm just
using that to kind of show you how that scale generally works. Same with pathways. Is
there a pathway there? Is it in our plans to put a pathway there? Are schools there? Is
there capacity there? Those types of things. And even -- even schools, as an example.
Not so much the capacity, but using the schools even as community gathering places and
access to them, can you -- you know, are they within two miles or use it as a de facto
park. So, we would develop this, again, primarily to look at the readiness of any parcel
to develop or redevelop within the city versus further and further out with some of those
services, our fire or police response times, those types of things. How close are you to
being within a five minute response time of any given fire station. So, we worked with
police and fire and ACHD and others, but mainly -- mainly it's city services. Going to look
at Idaho Power and what power maybe to a site. So, as a developer you can't just go to
this and, oh, I'm going to go get -- you know, there is other things that definitely need to
be considered if you're going to be looking to develop a parcel. But generally this shows
maybe where we should invest some more or work with our school district or ACHD and
say, boy, we have a lot of these facilities here, but schools lacking. Boy, if we get -- if we
can get a school up there or two, this makes sense for us to incentivize and maybe direct
growth there. We haven't gotten there yet, but those are some of the things we are
hearing from the community and some of the things even in the new plan that are alluded
to. Explore these partnerships to direct growth where you want it to go, not just react to
where ever it wants to go, but what can you provide that incentivizes development to
come, because you have got that quality of life that comes along with the roof top and
business. So, definitely more to come on that, but -- but this is a tool that we thought we
could use and you will see some of the output of this, you will see in your staff reports
and that table on the page one and two, we use some of that to kind of show, you know,
location of sewer, location of water. It tells you general proximity. Or we use -- probably
not a pretty picture like this, but we will use some of that information in your staff reports,
too. But it's not a -- it won't tell you if you should approve a project or not, so don't -- that's
not what this does. It doesn't say this is a good project or a bad project or to approve it
or not, it just tells you what the relationship is geographically to any one of those services.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 8 of 60
Fitzgerald: Caleb, random question. Are the blue outlines -- are those enclaves -- county
enclaves inside of the city or what are the little chunks inside of the city?
Hood: Correct. Yeah. I mean the blue outline is city limits. So, if you see something
that has blue, it's actually outlining the city limits. But, yeah, those are --
Fitzgerald: County enclaves inside the city. Okay. Thank you.
Perreault: Caleb, in the special meeting with ACHD that was mentioned, this is not going
to be something the public is going to use to -- to go online and as an interactive tool, it's
primarily for the use of decisions being made by the city. Would you want to elaborate
on that and, then, to talk about if there is going to be a key that -- or you mentioned this
is how we decided that, you know, this is the level of service in one area or another. Is
there going to be a summary or description of how you got to that? Not necessarily for
each parcel, but just, you know, a legend I guess.
McClure: Madam Chair, so with this tool as it currently is developed, which is to say it's
sort of a framework for something more later, there is no metric or overall ranking that we
would be reporting on, it would mostly be kind of a line by line reporting on all the individual
components. So, where it is. If we did a map we probably would want to have some sort
of key and, then, maybe that's something we do at some point in the future, but right now
it's really about the line item report -- report for each individual one.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: A question that kind of goes in line with what -- with the key I think. Could
there be layers on this to where somebody could just look at just fire stations and get --
and see the response time? Or ACHD? What -- is it in the five years? Is it -- is it, you
know, or not. Has it been -- is it in process of being widened or something like that, so
you can just -- you can -- everything right now is all of it together; right? So, can you just
peel out one layer at a time and look at that?
McClure: So, there is individual components that go into a pretty advanced model, but
it's all -- it's all text driven. You don't see a report out of that. And eventually -- on an
individual layer for most of it certainly there are components of it that we have pulled into
it. For example, fire districts, the response times for those. That's based off of a
geospatial shape file where you can see kind of -- basically kind of this, only it's are you
low, medium, or high. We could potentially show that, but it's not in the final tool. The
final tool is just a table that you would copy, paste, and put somewhere. To some of your
questions, though, the master mobility map has all those things you just mentioned. So,
the five year work plan, whether it's in the CIP and what -- the current status.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 9 of 60
Perreault: Okay. So, to be clear, this is not actually going to be in map format, it's going
to be in a list of properties that somebody can click on and figure out what the level of
service is? I guess I'm not understanding how --
McClure: Madam Chair, so someone being staff, yes. So, it will be -- it will be in the
planning tools that we use and, then, they can -- when they are doing a property search
they can pull that information out for whatever the properties are -- of interest are. It's not
a -- yeah, it's basically a table.
Hood: Maybe just to clarify. It won't be a list of the properties, it will be how close the
utilities are to a specific property you already want to know about. So, you would select
a parcel and, then, query what's the response time for fire and it would tell you you're
within a ring of five minute response -- five to seven minute response time or whatever.
Or sewer is a quarter mile away. So, that's what the table would report is those individual
metrics.
McClure: Hopefully -- Madam Chair. Hopefully that can -- but potentially in the future,
once we get some of this other stuff out from underneath us we can show you more of a
visual interactive approach to how that tool works. We don't currently have it working on
our servers right now. The consultant just transferred it to us and we are still working --
making sure it works with all of our databases. So, maybe in the future.
Hood: Yeah. More to come on this. I think this is the start of something and we will
probably continue to build on it.
Perreault: Fantastic. Thank you.
McClure: So, I'm going to cover some future land use map changes. Again, the theme
here is kind of a close out. So, this will not be seen is the takeaway here. So, most of
the map is not changing, so it's going to look pretty familiar. Many of the changes that
have occurred are just cleanup, so reflects an apartment being built, reflect a new school
being built, or reflects some sort of land use decision at some point that wasn't necessarily
super close or -- or was like a church occurring in a residential area, but the church north
of this office and others is just going to abut the office. Just simple things like that don't
affect the entitlements by and large. So, it's going to look very familiar. So, I'm not going
to go into anymore detail on that. Some of the big things that are occurring, though, that
are going away -- so, we are doing some land use consolidations. The items on the left
here you will not see in the new Comprehensive Plan. So, we are not planning to spend
more time on it, because it's -- in the public hearing, because they are not in the plan. So,
one of them is the real estate residential designation. Currently that is only in southwest
Meridian and half of that has already been annexed by the city of Kuna and we don't really
have any viable way of preserving that even if we wanted to and, honestly, it's not the
best way to plan for services in the future, which is the whole point of the Comprehensive
Plan. The low density residential designation, which we are retaining, allows this sort of
development, we will just -- the focus will be on making sure we have the service and
style and so -- yeah. The remaining three there you see are all within the Ten Mile
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 10 of 60
interchange specific area plan. They are being consolidated to citywide designations or
being absorbed by the designations around them, because generally they are
inconsistent or they are duplicative with citywide designations. So, for example, that first
one there, civic, we have a civic citywide designation. There is already a border on the
Ten Mile area interchange -- Ten Mile interchange specific area plan indicating when it's
in the interchange area, so if you see civic in there you just know to go to the -- that plan,
rather than the citywide plan. So, we are getting rid of the Ten Mile specific, which is pink.
We are getting rid of the green space and park. Again same reason. It's duplicative with
a citywide civic destination, which is what we use it for. And, then, the last one there is
the pipeline easement. That one is being absorbed by the land uses around them. So,
if it was for the Williams pipeline in the northwest and southeast in Meridian -- Williams
Pipeline doesn't particularly like to see that in a lot of detail and because it was only shown
in the Ten Mile interchange and not citywide, we are simply basically being consistent
with the rest of the plans. So, again, you won't see any designations proposed in the new
plan. Just want to be up front I guess. If anyone has any questions happy to take those.
Perreault: Is there a list or spreadsheet of the changes made on the future land map
that's actually in text form or is it just that there was -- that there were map changes then?
McClure: I'm not sure. We have some spreadsheets, but the way they have gone through
the process they don't -- you can't necessarily see every change from before to now.
do have one potentially -- we talked about how we could share that. The concern I would
have is I can't say definitively that it is comprehensive, because the consultants did it for
a while, cleared those with the steering committee, then, we got some different changes
and it just --it wasn't tried all the way through like that. I guess I'm not quite --an unknown
as well is -- this is a new plan, so we are not -- we are not highlighting those in the new
plan if they are changes, because it is a new plan. So, we can look at sharing that may
be somehow better, but just a note.
Perreault: I would guess the public would want to see what was and what now is in some
-- in some form.
McClure: That they can do. So, we do have the adopted map available online right now
and you can -- with -- with the new plan, so you can switch those on and off. It's just
tracking the reasoning behind the changes that I can't necessarily comprehensively
explain that, but, yes, you can definitely see before and after.
Perreault: Okay. I wasn't -- it wasn't so much the reasoning behind the changes as it
was what, you know, this was -- okay, this was low density, now it's medium density. Are
they -- are they taking the maps and looking at them side by side? Because, you know,
if you're on a screen those -- those sections are so tiny you can't tell what's what. So,
just didn't know if there was going to be a list that said, you know, this -- this area was
listed, so you know it's medium. Just -- just the actual specific changes from one to the
other, not a reasoning for it.
McClure: We did that for the public draft that we had a few weeks back. It showed clearly
all those highlighted changes, where they were occurring. However, we didn't track that
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 11 of 60
through to the proposed plan, because it's new. Kind of a quick demo that's kind of -- on
the screen here you will actually see some of the changes, but there is a little hamburger
icon there, it's the three horizontal slashes in the top left on the project website or -- if you
click on a legend will fly out and one of the tabs is a layers tab and you can cycle through
some of the layers in there and, basically, turn on the future and -- or the adopted and the
proposed maps. So, that is available now. So, this goes back to the previous slide here.
Again before and after. You can just see the changes listed in the Ten Mile plan. The
park designation there, for example, doesn't actually follow the pathway plan, so it's
inconsistent and also that's now how we show pathways and residency. They are just --
they are aligned. So, that's been condensed. The gas line there there is a pipe easement,
that's been condensed and, then, the civic designation are either changed into a citywide
designation or in this case as the school has no plans to purchase that anymore and it
was already approved with an option that didn't include it. So, that's a cleanup. So, this
is a big one. Again, things you won't see. So, our area of city impact is changing here.
Hopefully you won't see some of the push and pull we have had going on in the last 20
years on our southern border down there. So, basically, the left is our adopted area of
city impact and, then, the one on the right is the proposed city -- area of city impact, so
roughly kind of just putting this direct that these are our growth areas, these are where
we are limiting ourselves and this is where we do intend to plan services some day. This
one here it's for a referral area. So, state code currently allows cities to -- within their area
of city impact apply an area of that that didn't have a land use, but it basically says we
are going to plan for some land uses. We used to have this over southwest Meridian. It
was basically hashed shown on our map. It didn't have any colors. We haven't had that
for quite some time and, then, the current plan doesn't have that, so I'm just making note
that this text in there is not in there anymore. It is still a tool that state allows -- state does
allow us to do. So, we could use it. It doesn't have to be in the plan, but that might be
something that comes up, so -- this one is a bigger one. The steps -- you probably are
familiar with that, the developers are asking for a step up or a step down. Originally the
state code did not allow us to change the Comprehensive Plan more than twice a year.
At the time the city wanted some more flexibility, so this step option allowed -- allowed
basically what the city was looking for at the time. You will not see it in the new plan,
because it has been proven difficult for the public to understand. It's not very transparent,
because you don't know what's going on next to you and, then, probably more importantly,
at least to city staff is you can't plan for city services when half your city is anywhere from
zero to 15 dwelling units per acre, which is, basically, anything yellow on the map, that's
the range motion we have to plan for. So, the step is no longer in the plan. There are
some alternatives in there. There is actually some allowances for density bonuses now.
No one uses them, because they have this. That's going to retain and, then, there is also
some other flexibility in the new plan you will see, but the step is not in the plan, so --
lastly -- and this one is loosely kind of a close out, but for now most every agency relies
on a pdf for their -- their -- their published documents. We are doing that, because we --
you would have a record, but the emphasis will be on interactive website. So, after we
adopt this plan -- and the website is available now, but after we adopt this plan that will
be more of a push that we have for the public to engage with this plan. So, the policy --
they are going to be interactive. You can sort them on the fly by whatever topic or chapter
you're interested in. You can search them, again, on the fly, you just type in your word
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 12 of 60
and after typing the policies that have those letters show up. So, it's all very -- the map
-- it's in there now. The policies are in there and the text is all live. This is a responsive
website, so it changes whether you're on your mobile phone or website. That's really
going to be the drive moving forward. So, we will have the plan. It's not really being
closed out, but our emphasis on it will be less, so --
Hood: Okay. So, that, basically, concludes the part of the existing plan that you won't
see in a new plan; right? Or some of the tools that we will be using with development of
a new plan, but they aren't the new plan. So, those things that I covered there. So, again,
some of the next steps. We have already -- we have already talked about your hearing
on the application is in October. City Council sometime thereafter. Complete the project
before the new year. That is the directive that we are under as staff and one of the
reasons we moved your meeting up on the 17th to 5:30 is so we can get through this
hopefully in that one night, so we can stay on the schedule and move it on to City Council.
But, then, the real work begins for us and I'm including you in that us. We are going to
be -- there is a lot of things that people are, again, pretty passionate about in our
community, so we are going to need some help from you kind of deciphering and
understanding what is the upmost priority to get done now, what maybe can wait and
maybe what's a lesser priority that, yes, is still important, but maybe let's finish these
things first before we -- we bite those off. So, once we get the document adopted we.will
be coming back to you and saying, okay, here is 12 things we could do, but I have two
paths, so how do we -- let's come up with a -- and we will probably come up with a work
plan and say here is what we are -- you know, we think that we can do this much man
hours to get this stuff done. If we need more we can, but I need to either hire somebody
or we need a consultant help or whatever and, then, we can kind of understand maybe
how pressing those needs are or if they can be spread out over a longer time, then, we
can do it all in-house. Those will be some of the conversations we will have. Again, we
already know some of the things that are listed there that are going to be pretty hot topics,
they are going to be open space and amenities, housing, some sub area plans. And,
again, depending on how many of those sub area plans they will all take some effort there
and the neighborhood districts and understanding what this is. I won't go -- we have
talked about that before, so I will just take just a minute. And I don't know if it's district .or
associations or kind of what it is, but there is this sense of sub communities within our
community as Meridian. There is some things that generally bind certain neighborhoods
together that they all have some -- either now or want to into the future share some same
characteristics. We aren't using the Boise city model of, you know, these -- these
neighborhoods that maybe even come up with their own plans, but maybe these are
things that say, you know, within the southern rim, because they are actually a
geographical area as defined and has membership and whatnot, but maybe there is some
things in there where there are certain types of landscaping that everyone uses or a
certain type of fence -- you know, split rail fence that people in this part of town that really
says, oh, I'm in -- I'm in the southern rim. This has a rural feel to it or it's architectural
standards or paint schemes or things like that that really kind of define to some extent
these districts or associations or whatever we are going to call them. Don't know how
many that may be or if everybody has to be in one or if it can just be certain areas within
the town or what that's going to look like, but I guess that concept kept coming up. Hey,
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 13 of 60
there is -- you know, Meridian is going to be pretty big, we are not all the same and there
is people that have rim lots and there is people that are downtown. Downtown has their
own little district, if you will. We want our little something that calls us out as individual,
you know, community. So, anyway, some more work to be done on that really
understanding what that looks like. Similar to open space and I will talk about that in a
minute. So, I think that's -- so, then, just in conclusion. Again, I mentioned this at the
beginning, but it is the community's plan we believe at this point. We have been working
on it for a while and some -- some pretty good hours into it. The technical analysis is
there. It's not perfect, but I -- but I think it is darn close. So, just what we have kept --
what we think from the current plan is the most valuable. Not just what we think, but we,
again, collectively think have been retained and are moving forward. But we wanted to
close some of those things out this evening and this new document, whatever final version
it takes, will serve our community well into the future. So, yeah, I think with that, unless
you have any -- any other questions --
Perreault: Commissioners, any questions? Thank you.
Hood: Thank you.
Perreault: Caleb, are you going to continue with the open space survey discussion?
Hood: I am. Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me just get that presentation up real quick.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: Can I ask -- Caleb, real quick?
Hood: Yes.
Fitzgerald: I don't want to get into the whole Comprehensive Plan thing, but looking at
your -- the -- kind of the initial action concept, we read through that 69 page document
that you gave us, it's like an initial action says we worded or captured or whatever. Is that
the action that that group is taking, decide -- as I read through it I wanted to make sure
that I understood what the nomenclature was.
Hood: Yeah. So, the far left column -- on the far left column think was just a number.
Fitzgerald: Yes.
Hood: And, then, you had the existing --
Fitzgerald: The policy.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 14 of 60
Hood: -- the policy language and, then, I think we showed a little bit of our work in there
and in the far right is the recommended language you will see the new plan or if it's normal,
where it says removed, then, you won't see it in the new plan and those are really the
ones we want to daylight for you is, hey, some of these didn't make the cut.
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Hood: The community doesn't value some of these things anymore and we wanted to
share that with you and say, hey, there are several of these that we asked and several
more that got put in that we weren't maybe expecting. So, again, just to kind of show the
work there.
Perreault: So, is the new language officially adopted or is it -- is that still subject to
change?
Hood: Correct. So, that will be -- I mean -- Madam Chair, that's your job to some degree
on -- on the 17th -- 15th. I --
Fitzgerald: Thank you. That was -- I just wanted to make sure I was clear on how that
read. Thanks, Caleb.
Perreault: I had the same question and I appreciate that.
B. Open Space Survey Discussion
Hood: So, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I am pinch hitting for Cameron.
He had a -- something come up here last minute and so I want to just get a little bit of
feedback from you. I actually don't know -- I shared with you, but I don't know how many
actually took the open space survey, but consistent with the city's strategic plan we are
evaluating, trying to -- similar to the Comprehensive Plan, trying to understand from our
community members what they value and what open space means to them. Even the
Boise State University study they have done for the past probably handful of years now
-- I think I have been seeing some in the reports -- agricultural and open space show up
very high as something that people here in the Treasure Valley value, but that can mean
different things to different people and for different purposes. Is it agricultural production?
Is that because you enjoy driving by a farm? Is that a park? Is that a pathway? What is
open space? Is that setbacks between buildings? Yeah. So, there is a lot of different
ways people define open space. So, if we as a city or a community are going to look to
preserve and protect open spaces, we need to understand what that -- what that means.
Is that going and buying an 80 acre farm and leasing it, so it's in agricultural production
for the next 50 years or is it taking that farm and making it a park or -- anyway. So -- so,
a lot of those. But this is -- this is how the city's strategic plan -- identify and assess the
feasibility of areas within the area of city impact that could be preserved for open space,
historical significance, or cultural heritage. So, a lot of people say, yeah, I know Meridian
used to be an agricultural -- we are not -- we seem to be losing that. What can we do to
keep some ties back to that agricultural type of heritage. So, that's really the -- at the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 15 of 60
heart of what the survey is trying to get out. What does that mean to our citizens? Just
a little bit more. Yeah. So, the first step in that, then, is to develop a survey with some
options and, again, I don't know how familiar you are all with -- with that survey, but that's
some of why Cameron wanted to talk to you tonight is get some of that feedback as you
took the survey. This question I didn't really relate to or I didn't like how it was worded or
-- oh, you missed it, you should have had a question on this or whatever. Those are --
those are some of the -- some of the feedback he was hoping to hear from you. So, here
is how that all kind of potentially plays out. I guess this still assumes that open space is
of value to our community as you roll through this, because, then, we get into
implementation of acquiring property somewhere and doing open space. So, this is,
again, on the city's strategic plan. So, that's -- that's pretty much what I have is just to
touch base and I can take notes. I actually have the survey pulled up on my surface if we
want to -- if you have it open or want to get particular about those we can do that. But
any -- any comments or feedback. And, then, essentially, a -- you know, pretty okay with
us going out and doing this survey or, you know, blessing of sorts. I think it will probably
happen, but if you had some real concerns about, no, we shouldn't -- we shouldn't be
preserving open space, share those now I guess.
Perreault: Would that be the scope of the survey?
Hood: So, Madam Chair, right now it's been sent to you. It's been sent to the Historical
Preservation Commission and it's also been sent to our Parks Commission. So, those
three commissions have all been sent the draft survey. Again, kind of as guinea pigs a
little bit to see if that -- we can get out of the general public what we would like, but that's
the idea is that we would -- and I don't know statistically valid how we are going to, you
know, e-mail it to folks or you go to our website and take it, I don't know how it's going to
be distributed, but it would be open to residents to take.
Perreault: And the intention is to identify parcels that the city would own and determine
the use of and maintain; is that right? Or am I not understanding that?
Hood: That's kind of step two; right? First we got to understand what we are looking for.
If the survey comes back and it says, boy, we want to just keep a red barn somewhere,
then, we would go identify parcels that have red barns and talk to those property owners,
hey, can we buy your red barn? If it's pathways, then, we are going to be, hey, can we
get an easement maybe through your property and accelerate maybe some of our
pathway network. Or, again, working farms, is this something where we want to, you
know -- or an alternative park. I mean those two -- there is a whole bunch of different
concepts of what fits kind of within here, so --
Perreault: So, this is something separate from and outside of the Comprehensive Plan?
Hood: Correct.
Perreault: And has that ever been done before? Has the city ever done this to this level
where it's on a --
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 16 of 60
Hood: No, not that I'm aware of.
Perreault: Okay.
Hood: But it is real similar to what Boise has done with the foothills.
Perreault: Okay.
Hood: To use a similar example. It was something where, again, that community values
foothills, they want some preservation, similar type of thing. We don't have foothills, so
what we are hearing from folks that they want some -- not every corner to be built out,
let's have some of these -- I won't say farms, but some, again, cultural heritage tie back
at various places. So, funding and how we get there may not -- may not be the Boise
example either, but just to kind of put that into -- that's sort of the model we are looking at
if you will.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: Caleb, so after the survey results come back what is the next steps plan for
that? Because I -- I think one of the things -- what we get up here a lot is, you know, there
is a ten percent open space or whatever the requirement is going to be and we have --
the developers build to that, but there is folks on -- on this commission and folks on City
Council I know that's the minimum. We don't like the minimum. And it's kind of hard to
do business when you don't know the -- where the -- where the road goes or where the
final ending is supposed to be and so is there a work group? Is there discussions that
gets people to come in and say like, hey, this is where -- you know, we appreciate where
our heritage is and what we want to do and I think open space is important to all of us.
so, there is a balancing act between property rights and what we want it to look like and
people doing business and those -- all those pieces and how they mesh. So, what's the
-- what's the plan and the end result? What are you guys going for?
Hood: So, I can speak -- Madam Chair, Commissioner, I can speak with -- with some
confidence in this answer, although I have not been intimately involved in this process.
So, again, I'm covering a little bit for Cameron and Vincent up in the Mayor's office are
the main ones involved in this, but my understanding is, again, we do the survey, so,
hopefully, we have a better idea of what we are targeting and, then, we can -- we as staff
can identify potential parcels and, then, depending on what it was in phase one will
probably determine if we need a steering committee or a focus group that digs in deeper
or if it's maybe just something we negotiate. You know, we have attorneys, we just go,
hey, would you be willing to sell us this and, again, depending how big it is, if this is a
program or if it's a one -- one off thing and, you know, people are like, yeah, go get 80
acres for a future alternative park that I can go and lease, you know, an acre of or we
coop garden it or whatever and we are done, maybe we are done. So, I think that is kind
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 17 of 60
of TBD, depending on, again, the survey results and what we need to do going forward.
So, sorry, kind of --
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair? That was kind of what I was looking for. It's just kind of where
it -- what's the end result -- our goal at the end of this thing and I think that's to be
determined.
Hood: The end goal, again, I think is to preserve and protect some open space that
serves a cultural heritage type function, but what that looks like and where, that's the
survey I think.
Fitzgerald: I think so.
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: Just thinking about this and looking at the information that you shared previously
about the serviceability, would there be some way to overlay those two things together in
order to see -- this place right here, the surfaceability is rather low. However, it looks like
open space -- some type of open space that is represented here can be put into that to
help save not only money, but time and effort involved in trying to create something along
those lines.
Hood: Yeah. Madam Chair. That's a great -- that's a great comment and question. So,
yes, we have -- we have already started to look at that a little bit as staff. Again, when
we are not -- we will let the survey go out, but to me it doesn't make much sense to put
an 80 acre parcel, you know, right at Locust Grove and Fairview or something like that
that's right there and you got all these services running by. It really is probably something
that makes sense on our fringe somewhere where we are not running our utilities past
something that really isn't developed and so whatever comes out of the survey we will
probably be trying to identify parcels that make sense for the long term viability of a
taxpayer. We would still need a willing seller or whatever that relationship is. But that's
-- we will kind of do a similar thing in the service impact tools. We have a willing seller,
but it's -- it's right at Eagle and Fairview and they want, you know, 20 bucks a foot for it,
you know, or what we have -- we got something at Lake Hazel and McDermott right on
our fringe, we can get it for a good deal and preserve it for ever and ever, it's a good price
and it sort of serves as this transition between Kuna and Meridian and it -- so, again, kind
of depending on what comes out of the survey, but that's how -- some of our concern that
we don't want to necessarily put agricultural ground right in the middle of our city. It could
work. But we have kind of that hierarchy or somehow score parcels as far as -- yeah,
how they score or how they look for doing whatever preserving open space.
Seal: Thank you very much.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 18 of 60
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Just a couple comments for you, Caleb. One thing after I went through the
survey that might be interesting is to track where people are from in Meridian, which part
of the community that they live in, because I know north Meridian is very different than
south Meridian or maybe put together a map that has six or seven different areas and
they can kind of pick which number they live in might be helpful just in informing what
their scope looks like and make sure we get a good representative sample and, then, one
other thought is just maybe putting an opportunity in there if they want to have their name
or an e-mail address to keep informed for future conversations, it's always nice if you fill
out a survey and have a chance to figure out what are the next steps and how do I stay
informed on them if somebody wanted to.
Perreault: I took the survey a few weeks ago, so I don't remember. Is there a question
that asks how long they have lived in the city or in the area?
Hood: And I was thinking it was zip code is all we ask right now, but I don't remember
tenure. If not we will -- we will make sure there is.
Holland: I'm pretty sure there is.
Perreault: You will see a definite correlation between the time they have lived here and
their responses to the questions.
Holland: Madam Chair, just to confirm, the second question is how long have you lived
in Meridian.
Perreault: So, there is one. Okay. Great. Thank you.
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: Kind of a question overall on the -- for the way that -- when you look for real estate,
the way that that's all broken down, because that's something that can be transferred into
this as far as asking for the location that they live in, because right now the tool is -- when
you go out and you look for real estate in a certain area there is breakdowns of the
different areas that are there. Is that something that could be put in there as far as a
location that you're asking for?
Perreault: Oh, I understand what you're saying. As far as that goes those geographic
areas run across -- don't -- don't follow with exactly in city lines.
Seal: Okay.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 19 of 60
Perreault: So, that wouldn't be -- yeah. I don't know that it would work as the way it's set
up right now. It doesn't stay within city limits. Anything else? Thank you.
Hood: Thank you for your time.
Perreault: So, now we will move forward with our applications and at this time I will explain
the public hearing process. So, we will open each item individually and, then, start with
the staff report. The staff will report their findings regarding how the item adheres to our
comp plan and Uniform Development Code, with the staffs recommendations. After they
have made their presentation the applicant will come forward to present their case for
approval or denial of the application and respond to any staff comments. The applicant
will have 15 minutes to do so. After the applicant has finished we will open to public
testimony. There is an iPad in the back where you can sign up. Any person testifying will
be allowed three minutes. If they are speaking for a larger group, which it doesn't look
like we are going to have tonight, then, they could potentially be given more time. After
all testimony has been heard, the applicant will be given another ten minutes to come
back and respond if they choose to do so. And, then, we will close the public hearing and
the Commissioners will have a chance to
discuss and be able to make a decision or recommendation to City Council.
Item 5: Action Items
A. Public Hearing for TM Creek East Apartments (H-2019-0089) by
SCS TM Creek and SCS Brighton, Generally Located 1/4
mile east of S. Ten Mile Rd., south of W. Franklin Rd., in
the NW'/4 of Section 14, Township 3N., Range 1W.
1. Request: Conditional Use Permit for a multi -family
development consisting of 235 dwelling units on 8.3 acres of
land in the R -40 zoning district, by SCS TM Creek and SCS
Brighton.
Perreault: The first action item on the agenda is the public hearing for TM Creek East
Apartments, H-2019-0089. We will begin with the staff report.
Parsons: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The first item on the
agenda tonight is the TM Creek East Apartments. The subject site consists of 8.3 acres
of land. It's currently zoned R-40 in the city limits and it's part of the -- actually the TM
Creek Development. This is actually a second phase of the apartment complex that's
already been built directly to the west of this site. So, it's near the southeast corner of
Ten Mile and Franklin Road. You can see here on the future land use map that the site
is primarily high density residential, which is the development that is proposed this
evening before you and as I mentioned to you this is vacant land. Currently in the area
-- surrounding area we have some vacant commercial property to the south. Some more
R-40 vacant property to the east. Directly to the west we have commercial properties and
apartments zoned C -G and, then, to the north we have a piece of TNZ R-40 and some
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 20 of 60
more commercial development that is under certain -- they are all in different development
phases at this time. So, the applicant is here this evening to discuss a conditional use
permit to develop the site with 235 residential units on, again, 8.3 acres of land. The site
will develop with four story -- three four story apartments structures. The associated
landscaping, covered and uncovered parking, in a single phase, but the applicant will be
phased on their construction schedule. Access to the -- I don't know what's going on with
my mic here. Maybe I'm better off with it off. So, access to this particular development
is from adjacent collector streets, which are located along the west boundary and the
south boundary or at least a future collector street on the south boundary. The western
collector street is South Wayfinder Avenue and on the south we have West Cobalt
Avenue. The UDC typically restricts access to collector streets when a local street is
available, but in this particular case there is no local street available to the site. If you
had a chance to review the staff report staff had recommended that the applicant remove
the easternmost driveway access to Cobalt Avenue and also required cross -access with
the adjacent to the east. Well, the property owner to the -- the same developer owns the
property to the east and they are willing to provide that cross -access and if you also notice
in the staff report staff wanted additional parking for the site, so this notched out area that
you see here in the lower right-hand corner, staff wants additional guest parking provided
on the site. So, it's our opinion that it's better to keep the access point, go ahead and
support the applicant's request to keep that driveway access, so that we can have a better
facilitation for cross -access to the property to the east. So, we are amenable to the
applicant's request to strike that condition and keep that driveway location in its place,
with the caveat that they provide the additional guest parking as conditioned by staff and
the applicant's also amenable to that as well. So, the applicants also for this particular
site and the number of units, the applicant's proposing 415 parking spaces. Forty-eight
of those are in garages and 187 are covered carports and 180 are uncovered parking,
which is -- so, looking at the parking total for the site that would give them an excess of
12 parking spaces on the site. As I mentioned to you, staff was concerned with the
parking ratio. So, again, this lower left-hand corner -- or right-hand corner, excuse me,
will be additional parking as they go through that CZC design review process with us.
Open space for the site. The applicant -- so, in the upper right-hand corner we have an
open space exhibit for you here. You can see the landscape plan on the -- the expanded
plan here. The landscape includes the 20 foot landscape buffers along the collector
streets in accordance with UDC standards and, then, the multi -family standards the
applicant's supposed to apply common open space based on the square footage of those
units and, then, an additional ten percent based on UDC standards. So, the applicant's
proposing 2.25 acres of open space in excess of UDC standards and, then, site amenities
consist of a clubhouse and pool, a lounge -- I won't go through all of it. It's in your hearing
outline. But I just want to highlight some of those amenities that they are proposing.
Twenty-four hour fitness facility. A workout room. Wi-Fi throughout the facility.
Connections to the multi -use pathway along the north boundary. So, again, if you had a
chance to read the staff report, the applicant did submit alternative compliance, which
was approved by the -- by the director in this case. That doesn't take action from this
body, but there -- they were asked to have reduced patio spaces for the private open
space in lieu of providing more amenities and more open space for everyone to enjoy.
So, yes, this is typical with what they did in phase one. If you also recall, the applicant
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 21 of 60
came forward on staffs behalf with a UDC text amendment that allowed for that flexibility
through the alternative compliance process. So, again, the site plan, the landscape plan
that you see before you tonight, is in conformance with the multi -family standards and the
open space standards in the UDC. I would also mention to the Commission that density
on this particular site will -- is above -- on the higher end, so it -- although there are 40,
the overall gross density for the site is 28 dwelling units to the acre. So, it's -- that's a
pretty high dense -- it's the dense project for this particular area, which, again, is
envisioned in our Ten Mile specific area plan and consistent with their development plan
that they -- their development agreements that they have approved with the city. So, here
are the elevations that the applicant are proposing. Again, this is just an extension of
what's already been developed on the west side of the site. So, the applicant will have a
mixture of stone or brick, stucco, contemporary modern style. These are consistent,
again, with what's across the street from the site. Moving forward all of the structures on
this site, including the garage structures, will have to comply with the Ten Mile specific
area plan, the ASM, and the UDC design guidelines and the applicant's well aware of
that. Staff did receive written testimony from Mike Wardle on this application. In that --
in his written testimony he asked the Commission to strike condition 3-H, condition eight
and condition ten. I did send an e-mail to the applicant this afternoon working through
some of these issues with the conditions. I'm happy to report that staff is agreeable to
striking, again, condition 3-H, which is the requirement to remove this -- the easternmost
driveway. We want to keep that in place. So, we can facilitate cross -access in the future.
Condition number eight dealt with the floodplain. This site is not in -- within the floodplain.
I called Jason Cohen, who is our floodplain administrator. He confirmed that and said he
was amenable to that condition being struck this evening. Staff is also supportive of that
request being modified -- or stricken from the record. And, then, condition number ten
had -- was in regards to requiring a subdivision prior to getting a building permit for the --
this development. In looking at the amended development agreement for this site, the
applicant came back before City Council. Council approved an amended DA to allow
them to pull building permits on this without having to go -- without having to subdivide it.
In working with the applicant don't necessarily want you to strike that condition, but I would
recommend that you modify it as written in the hearing outline before you. So, on record
we, basically, want that condition reading the subject property shall be subdivided prior
to issuance of occupancy for the first structure on the site. So, let them get under
construction, let them get that moving forward, but make sure that we have the roads and
the landscaping in and the final plat recorded prior to full build out of the project. Again,
the applicant did submit an e-mail in agreement with that change. Other than that written
testimony from the applicant. The staff has not received any written testimony on this
project, so I will go ahead and conclude my presentation and stand for any questions you
may have.
Perreault: Thank you, Bill. Do the Commissioners have any questions for staff?
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Yes, Commissioner Seal.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 22 of 60
Seal: Just on the -- for better definition of the occupancy for the first structure on the site,
does that mean the first inhabitants of one of the apartments that's there or is that
something that could mean somebody that's there living to show apartments or to
showcase things or something along those lines?
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the idea would be the first
apartment complex. So, that's where they are going to start with this. I believe it's the
center building. I will let the applicant get into their details, but get this portion -- this
building under construction. So, prior to getting occupancy, having people essentially
living in the units, they would need to have the final plat recorded.
Seal: Okay. Thank you.
Perreault: Anymore questions?
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: I have got a couple. Bill, the -- condition 3-H, is that to leave that driveway in
place or to remove it? Can you clarify that for me?
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, the condition as it reads is remove
it or seek Council waiver of it and looking at the intent of the code, typically we want local
street access. This site doesn't have a local street access, so when local street access
isn't available we -- we ask for them to reciprocate cross -access. While we know there is
something more intense going to happen to the east and having cross -access deeper into
the site doesn't make sense when we don't know what's going to happen to the east yet,
so in staffs opinion, looking at the intent of the ordinance, we feel comfortable that
keeping this access and facilitating cross -access somewhere in this location, if you can
see my cursor, makes it safe for a situation for people -- for that to happen for getting that
interconnectivity and that's why we are supporting it. So, I believe we have enough in
code to allow them to strike that condition, as we already have it covered under a previous
condition to require the cross -access. So, basically, strike that condition.
Cassinelli: So, striking it -- striking it will leave that driveway there.
Parsons: Striking will leave that there and we already have a separate condition for the
cross -access.
Cassinelli: Okay. And, then, that's another question I have. Regarding the cross -access,
given it -- given that Cobalt is a collector and not an arterial, whatever happens in the
future couldn't they -- I mean would access off Cobalt be enough without a -- and the only
-- what I'm thinking here is -- is the parking. I'm -- I'm with you, I want to see the extra
parking not having a cross -access there, so when the property gets developed to the east
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 23 of 60
couldn't that -- I mean could it not get all -- enough access off of Cobalt without the cross -
access? Does that make sense?
Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, that -- that is an option.
Certainly this road will get extended and will go up and out to Franklin with another
access, another road. But the plans haven't been determined for that, so, basically, our
code, the way it reads, is we can let them access collectors and arterials. So, at this -- at
this point in action the applicant -- they could come back once they get their plans
solidified on that portion to the east they could technically request another access to
Cobalt at that time. But if we don't require cross -access here, then, we are going to have
to say we have to give them an access, because they have to have access to a street.
We can't, essentially, approve a project without access.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Parsons: I don't think the applicant would -- would do that. Certainly they want to have
as much connectivity, too. It's good for business or whatever happens there.
Cassinelli: Yeah. And, then, finally, Madam Chair, Bill, do you know what the -- and
know -- I'm sure Mike can -- can answer this if not, but the number of units in the existing
apartments, The Lofts, there to the west? Do you know that number?
Parsons: Madam Chair. I want to say 240.
Cassinelli: Two forty? Okay. So, total --
Parsons: Two hundred and forty, plus two thirty-five with this.
Cassinelli: To the west 75.
Perreault: Could you repeat that number?
Parsons: Two hundred and forty units in the first phase.
Perreault: Bill, did staff attempt to make any estimate on how many additional parking
spaces that will allow in that section or did you ask the applicant to do so? Did we get
that far?
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I would imagine if you see what's
happening on the east side you're going to get, I don't know, maybe a dozen more parking
stalls there along that boundary. It's just going to be an extension. If you can see my
cursor here it's just going to be this drive aisle and, then, an extension of parking down
through here. So, I imagine they will pick about a dozen more.
Perreault: Thank you.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 24 of 60
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: A question on the -- on -- if we vote to strike 3-H you had mentioned that -- and
believe you already answered this question, I just want to make sure -- that there is
already verbiage in there that, essentially, if we strike 3-H that the parking is going to
happen. Already part of the staff report and a recommendation.
Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, yeah, there is a separate
condition to add the additional parking and there is a separate condition for the cross -
access.
Seal: Okay.
Parsons: So, if you strike 3-H you're not -- not losing that additional parking as requested
by staff.
Seal: Okay. Thank you.
Perreault: Okay. Okay. Would the applicant, please, come forward.
Wardle: Madam Chair, Commission Members, Mike Wardle, Director of Planning for
Brighton Corporation. 2929 West Navigator in Meridian. Going to be a little bit redundant,
but in doing so provide a lot more detail and answer all of the questions that -- or at least
the interest that has been expressed. Certainly the location there at the southeast corner
of Ten Mile and Franklin immediately to the east of Wayfinder Avenue, which has now
been completed -- now access is to Franklin Road for this -- this next phase. We are
excited about this, because it -- in the 240 units that have been -- are under construction
in the first building of that phase, is now being occupied and it's about two-thirds occupied
at this point. The second building will be completed and ready for occupancy in
November, about two and a half months ahead of the original schedule. This particular
view is a very recent shot from the intersection of Ten Mile and Franklin looking to the
southeast. You can see in the distance the TM Crossing project with the completed
buildings for AmeriBen, Paylocity and Brighton. There are two new complexes under
construction back there. There is a lot that will be happening in this TM Creek area at the
intersection of Franklin and Ten Mile. I would like to just have you note for a moment the
amenity corridor along Ten Mile Creek in the center of the photo. I'm going to come back
to that a little bit later, because it's a -- it's an important amenity for the entire complex, as
well as the -- the apartment phases. The first phase -- it was kind of interesting in that
the activity core was basically put in the center of the project with parking in between that
activity center and the buildings as you can see both the concept in the upper left and the
real life photo down below. Great amenities and we met all of the open space
requirements, but, frankly, in our design consideration for this second phase we
concluded that we wanted to really put all the amenity value within -- though, essentially,
all integrated into the center of the project and that did necessitate consideration of
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 25 of 60
alternative compliance for the fact that the code encourages the parking to be kind of in
the center, but we -- we think that we have got a design and I'm going to show you some
slides that illustrate what that really means to the benefit of the residents. The parking
buffers along both streets, Wayfinder to the left, Cobalt to the south, include garage
structures. There are certainly the carports and those are illustrated in -- well, let me use
this slide first to get there. This particular slide shows where those structures are located.
The garages along both the streets behind the landscape buffers. The darker area are
carports. The shaded dark areas are carports. Then on the buildings themselves that
just notes the occupancy. The central core structure will be the first area of occupancy
and as noted in Bill's comments, the project will be started just as we did with phase one,
building permits were granted before the plat was completed, but the plat was recorded
during that process long before occupancy occurred. That will be the same process that
we do here. So, even though the project will be constructed as a whole, the central core
building with all the amenities will be the first area occupied. The building to the west the
second. The building to the east the third. To kind of show the real life buffering that
occurs, you can see the structures -- and these are as constructed. This is not a model.
This is an actual photograph of the garage structures along -- in this particular case an
interior service drive, not a public street with the carports adjacent to the buildings and in
the center of that parking. So, that -- that just shows the type of structural buffering, along
with landscaping, that will be along the adjacent collectors in the future. And Bill did show
you the work in progress, architectural detailing that the structures, again, on all four
stories, they are subject to additional review and consideration through the design review
and CZC process, but they are up to date as depicted. Beginning now to look at a little
bit more of the -- the heart of the project, the central core activity area. You can see the
photo to the left -- upper left shows the four story structure that projects into this open
space corridor. The upper two floors are apartments. The lower two floors are the
clubhouse, offices for management, meeting places, all of the activities that are essential
to the project will be in that core area on the lower two floors. Of course you can see in
the lower green how all of that exterior open space, then, fits into this. So, to illustrate
that a little bit more, again, you can see the central core with the east building in the
background. Swimming pool along the northerly area. It's conceptual at this point.
mean there is some details as they are working out, but you can see on -- to the right of
that central core there is an outdoor area that is separate from the pool that gives people
an option for gathering without being in the splash zone. The next one shows the opposite
view looking at the central core from the east toward the west building, with the different
types of uses in that outdoor amenity area and this is just a -- an illustration of what type
of screening and overhead structures would be there for people to gather in a social
setting apart from the swimming pool complex area and the indoor spaces that would be
available. Back to that Ten Mile Creek amenity corridor. This is as constructed and you
will note -- it's a little bit hard to see. Should have taken it with a drone. But you got a --
a regional pathway to the right on the south side of the creek. On the north side of the
creek is a gravel maintenance access road for the Nampa -Meridian Irrigation District.
That amenity corridor -- and we just today completed the paving of the rest of this over to
Wayfinder Avenue that separates now the phase one and phase two. So, that
landscaping and that portion of it will be completed very shortly. That will continue east
of Wayfinder. Let me go to this next slide, because this is a -- it was a noted condition of
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 26 of 60
staff. Condition 3-D. We had identified at Wayfinder on the left, the northwest corner of
the site, and, then, a connection from the interior sidewalk system down to that pathway
along Ten Mile Creek. Staff had noted that there needs to be access at the center and
to the east and we are in total agreement. That was already anticipated. We just did not
get it on a plan. So, what this project does is it turns the focus to the interior and to Ten
Mile Creek, where the other one kind of backed up to it. But one benefit in the other
project is that all of the units that face Ten Mile Creek that were right there on top of it
literally have been snapped up in a hurry. So, the amenity value from a view perspective
in phase one. In phase two it basically brings it right into the heart of the project. So, we
are excited about that and we are in obvious agreement with the staff to make sure that
we have central and easterly side access. So -- and I'm not quite through a slide, but I
just wanted to note that with the caveats that Bill cited with the deletion of condition 3-H
and also condition eight and, then, the modification of number ten to deal with the platting
before occupancy, we are in agreement with the staff recommendation, but I want to
illustrate those just for a moment and, Mr. Cassinelli, you kind of hit at this particular thing.
These streets are, again, not arterial, these are collectors, but it creates the -- the
connection system of the project and if we did not have where the four crossed arrows
are, if we didn't have that access point it means that whatever cross -connection would be
would have to go to the center of the project and it would potentially create more conflict
and unnecessary traffic through the parking lot. So, certainly maintaining that item for
condition -- deleting condition 3-H is appropriate. There will certainly be another access
point to the east when we bring another project in there and it's also we anticipate will be
not this type of residential, but some type of a residential component that will be proposed
there that we are still looking at the details. So, that just illustrates the importance, frankly,
of maintaining that east -- easternmost, as staff termed it, access point for this site. The
other one, deletion of condition eight, because, in fact, even though it's adjacent to the
floodplain, it is not in the floodplain and that's probably best illustrated -- if I go back to
this particular slide you can see how deep Ten Mile Creek is in relation to the adjacent
property and so, basically, there has been kind of a venting from that -- well, in some
cases it's 12 to 15 feet deep below grade and so what we did is we lowered the grade
within the corridor to get the pathway and the access down where it really becomes an
amenity and kind of keeps people below the level of the adjacent properties. Now, I
wanted to utilize this in my last comments, because I think it goes back to some of the
issues of how all of this is going to work together in the future. This is just kind of the
bones of the system that we are working on. It shows the existing roadways that are
completed. Cobalt Drive to the roundabout, just between phases one and two of the
apartments. Wayfinder from that roundabout north to Franklin. And, of course, on the
south in Vanguard Way and that roundabout into the TM Crossing project. We anticipate
connecting the two roundabouts this next year. In fact, we are working very very hard to
get that done, because we need that north -south access. There will be in the future a
roadway that comes -- comes through where Vanguard is, it loops down, goes easterly
as Navigator and, then, turns to the north and will eventually connect as depicted in the
-- as that future roadway to about the half mile line on Franklin Road. There is already
an access point there that has always been anticipated that it would be the signalized half
mile access to Franklin. So, in doing that we will construct Cobalt certainly across the
face of this phase, the second phase of the apartments, and, then, as quickly as we can
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 27 of 60
bring -- and we will be bringing in a preliminary plat and concepts for much of the rest of
that area that right now is not identified or detailed. That will, then, help facilitate getting
that east -west Cobalt completion and the north access to Franklin Road. So, it takes a
long time to pull these pieces together, but they are coming and we are excited about it,
because there is a lot of great things that have happened out there and will. But back to
just the subjects at hand. We are in favor of staffs recommendation as we have worked
with staff to clarify and modify and we ask that you approve the project on that basis and
would be happy to answer your questions.
Perreault: Any questions for Mr. Wardle?
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Mike, where is the -- which one is the half mile lighted intersection on Ten
Mile? Is that Vanguard or is it further south?
Wardle: At the half mile?
Cassinelli: Yeah.
Wardle: Actually, it's -- there is not exactly a half mile, because Ten Mile is -- is about a
quarter of a mile north of --
Cassinelli: The freeway.
Wardle: -- the freeway, so Vanguard is nearly a quarter mile and it puts Cobalt at another
quarter mile. So, Vanguard technically would probably be at the half mile, but it's not a
half mile between the freeway and Franklin --
Cassinelli: Sure.
Wardle: -- if that's the --
Cassinelli: Is that where the plan -- is their planned light -- I mean there is already a light
-- what's the --
Wardle: That's the one that's signaled.
Cassinelli: And which ones -- that's not Vanguard.
Wardle: That is Vanguard.
Cassinelli: Oh, that is Vanguard that's signaled now.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 28 of 60
Wardle: Yes. And we are working right now on the warrant for the signal at Cobalt. That
was conceptually approved by ACHD and ITD when we got all of our access points
established originally. So, we are working on that signal right now.
Cassinelli: Okay. So, there will be a signal at Cobalt as well.
Wardle: Yes.
Cassinelli: Okay. Vanguard -- Vanguard currently has the signal. That's where it is.
Correct? And Cobalt will have a signal.
Wardle: Yes.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Wardle: And in that regard when you look at the -- almost the intersection there of
Wayfinder and Franklin, the -- that will be signalized as well, Wayfinder will be, that all of
the infrastructure for signaling is in the ground, was approved, but we have to just go
through the warrant process with ACHD.
Cassinelli: And will there be a signal at that future connector to the east --
Wardle: Yes.
Cassinelli: --to Franklin?
Wardle: Yes, there will.
Cassinelli: Okay. And so ACHD was -- they were happy to put in an extra signal at
Wayfinder?
Wardle: Yes. That was all part of the original agreements when that project was all --
when the Ten Mile project was done and approved and Franklin was in the planning
process at that point, not quite constructed by ACHD, but followed on very quickly, all of
those access points and determinations were made subject to future warrants. But,
again, the infrastructure for Wayfinder is already in the ground.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Perreault: Mike, are the residents from phase one going to use the amenities for phase
two? And, if so, are they going to use the regional pathway to walk to that location?
What's going to be their pedestrian access?
Wardle: Oh, I don't know whether they are going to cross -connect in that way or not.
Perreault: But they will be permitted to use those amenities?
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 29 of 60
Wardle: But -- but the pathway would -- would make it possible for people to flow back
and forth and I suppose if there are people that become socially connected between the
two they might share and use each other's facilities, but in terms of the required
maintenance and so forth or -- they will be separate entities.
Perreault: Okay.
Wardle: But we can't stop social connections.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you. Any additional questions?
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: I'm just -- a couple of observations on it. The -- the open area that you provide, the
great thing about it is a very large open area. The only concern that I have about it is if
it's a very large open area that doesn't seem to have a lot of light. How -- is there any
plan to address that specifically and it's -- I know there is hundreds of windows facing out
there, but my mind goes to -- it's a -- it's a dark night and there is no light out there and
who is going to be out there and how do you monitor that. And the -- and the same
concern is also because the parking and the way that the parking garages and covered
parking areas are designed, there is a large amount of area that's in there where there is
going to be a large amount of the pedestrian traffic that's going to be going through there
in the evening time, especially when you're getting into winter and it's dark at 4:00 o'clock
at night before people get home from work. Is there going to be more or augmented
lighting in those areas?
Wardle: Madam Chair and Commissioner Seal, I don't know what the details are, but
definitely there is lighting in both the parking and in that interior area, because you have
got buildings and structures in there that will have exterior lights as well. I just -- it's a
detail that I don't have an answer for that will go through the design review process. But
maybe Mr. Gabrielson can answer. Tell them who you are.
Gabrielson: John Gabrielson.
Perreault: Before you answer that, can you tell us what happened to your arms?
Gabrielson: I will show you the video afterwards.
Perreault: Okay.
Gabrielson: I was at a gym over here behind the Meridian Speedway and fell off the
Olympic rings. Fell about eight feet onto my hands and broke both my wrists, so --
Perreault: Sorry to hear that.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 30 of 60
Gabrielson: I had surgery yesterday. I'm on the up. Feeling better.
Perreault: Good.
Gabrielson: Thanks. John Gabrielsen. 2929 West Navigator Drive, Meridian, Idaho.
Just to fill in on a few spots. The photometric light -- lighting plan for the site will come
out when we submit for CZC and those -- not only are the garages well lit, but the covered
carports as well have lighting underneath and, then, we will also have side lighting
throughout. So, it's -- it's bright side. If you would like to go see the Ten Mile one and
you will see it's very well lit. In addition, the pool area and those outdoor courtyards as
well will have floor lighting throughout, as well as some lights up above. Overhead
lighting. So, the courtyard will be well lit at night. We will dim those down later in the
evening when it's quiet hours when people aren't supposed to be in the pool, but --
Seal: Right. Okay. Thank you.
Perreault: Anymore questions for the applicant?
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: In looking at the -- the staff report that came out there is -- for the water quality
there is a piece in here that talks about the long dead-end water main and resulting in
poor water quality and, then, looking at the -- correlating that to the -- and maybe it's just
me correlating it -- to the feedback that came from the Fire Department, basically saying
that this is a higher risk factor area. My concern is that there is not going to be enough
water pressure. I mean they are saying that there is going to be enough water pressure,
but there is some details in there alluding to the fact that it might not be the pressure that
they are looking for because of the -- of the dead-end in there. Is there -- are you doing
anything to address that or is that being addressed?
Wardle: Madam Chair, Commissioner Seal, with the completion of Wayfinder we now
have a full loop from Ten Mile to Franklin and, then, of course, internally there will be
some looping there. So, there may be a short-term issue, but not in terms of fire pressure,
it's just that the easterly edge of this might -- you know, the flow of water when we get
Cobalt completed and connected down to the other roadway, which will also, then, add
another new connection to Franklin, will, you know, solve all of those. But I don't know
that we really have any concern for fire -- fire flow is not going to be an issue with these
connections that have just been coming completed. So, I don't know -- I would hold up
the Fire Department item, but I did not see a red flag that at least hit us, but we will
certainly look at it prior to the time we get our building permit to make sure that we are in
full compliance. But I didn't see a red flag. Apologize if I missed something.
Seal: Yeah. In looking at -- looking at the report right now, essentially, just gives it a risk
factor of two because it is a -- you know, a dense structure with multiple floors on it. So,
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 31 of 60
looking at that and knowing that there could be a problem with the water, that's the
concern that I have of the project overall.
Wardle: Well, knowing how long it will take us to complete this project, I would expect
that there will be additional development and additional water connections before this
occupancy. Certainly before the project as a whole is occupied. So, while this is going
-- it's a -- it's a work in progress as we continue, because now that we have got the
momentum going and as projects are coming along, we are seeing a lot more interest
that will bring some of that unplanned area to development very shortly. So, I appreciate
the -- the heads up on that.
Seal: Thank you.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you very much.
Wardle: Thank you.
Perreault: Is there anyone here to testify?
Weatherly: Madam Chair, no one is signed up to testify.
Perreault: Is there anyone in the audience that would like to speak on this application?
Okay. Mike, I assume you don't have anything else to add. Can I get a motion to close
the public hearing?
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair, so moved.
Cassinelli: Second.
Perreault: It's been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for TM Creek East
Apartments, H-2019-0098. All those in favor say aye.
MOTION CARRIED: SIX AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Perreault: So, let me remind the Commissioners that this is a conditional use permit and
so the decision will be made with us this evening and that the requests from the applicant
for the two -- for the two items for alternative compliance were already approved by the
director of the planning department. Don't all go at once.
Cassinelli: I will jump in and --
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair. First of all, I see in The Loft it's -- as far as apartments go it's
a beautiful -- beautiful project. I mean I might sell my house and go move in there with
all the amenities. It looks kind of resort'ish. So, I -- from that standpoint I think it's a -- it's
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 32 of 60
a -- it's a great project in a great place. As far as the density, it's -- I think it's very suited,
obviously, in the Ten Mile interchange. The concerns I have to kind of go on top of
Commissioner Seal's mention of the -- from the Fire Department, a couple of things that
they -- now, I didn't -- I didn't realize it was a water issue. It just said their risk identification
this -- this proposed commercial development has a risk factor of two in which current
resources would not be adequate to supply service to this proposed project. Risk factors
including firefighting multi -story and on. It doesn't mention -- it doesn't mention water. I'm
thinking -- I was thinking more -- more equipment and -- and personnel to fight that, as
well as in the fire -- staff report number two talks about the reliability. It says current
reliability is 81 percent from Station No. 2 and does not meet the targeted goal of 85
percent or greater. So, I'm a little -- I'm a little curious why -- why we are getting a
recommendation of approve when -- when the Fire Department is saying this is -- this is
not -- they are not there yet and so I have got a -- I have got a huge concern on that. The
other one -- and since nobody's -- since nobody spoke out on traffic, I'm going to go ahead
and bring that sucker up tonight. Ten Mile at 5:00 o'clock in the afternoon is a parking lot.
got -- I got off the freeway yesterday about 5:07 and between the freeway and -- and
Franklin sat for at least five minutes and that's normal. God bless ACHD, again, for their
foresight and not working with -- not working with the city to plan ahead. The traffic report
from ACHD in here shows a peak hour count over -- over the acceptable level of service
right now and that study was done two years ago. That's a two year old study. I -- I just
don't see it. I don't see us approving this now. I like the project. I have got no problem
with the project. It's the resources. It's -- it's the services that we have in the city. We
are -- this project is -- like in so many areas right now we are so far out in front of -- of our
-- of the resources of the infrastructure that it's -- quite frankly it's -- it's creating a mess in
the city and I can't support this project knowing that we are running off a two year old
traffic study and I mean it -- in the very least I would want to see the connection on those
collectors before -- before this starts to where they can funnel traffic out to a light onto
Ten Mile and get people -- get some of that traffic off of Ten Mile. Those are my concerns
and they are huge concerns of mine. So, that's -- that's my input.
Perreault: So, Commissioner Cassinelli, to be clear, if the section -- the section of the
road between the two roundabouts would take traffic down to the light would that be
something that would be --
Cassinelli: Acceptable to me?
Perreault: -- acceptable?
Cassinelli: It's a -- my problems still are -- the two big ones is it's a -- I would want to see
an updated traffic study from ACHD, because it's two years old and so they got traffic
counts that are two years old that are -- we all know is completely outdated by now. And
also something from the Fire Department saying that -- that these aren't acceptable levels,
because we are talking about -- we are talking about multi -family housing, 235 units there,
four story, that if they are saying that they are -- they are below their acceptable level of
85 percent and the other risk factor that they had, those two things right there, they are
-- they are a deal stopper for me. If ACHD comes in -- if the traffic hasn't changed, if we
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 33 of 60
have got -- I don't know why ACHD didn't comment further on this, honestly, other than
giving us some numbers and some changes on -- on what they want -- what they want to
see on -- on the collectors and whatnot. I don't know how ACHD can move forward
knowing that's a two year old traffic study and that those numbers -- they are already
exceeding their acceptable levels two years ago.
Perreault: We see that on nearly every application, unfortunately, and I agree with you.
That it's not helpful. That being said, does staff happen to know when the fire station on
Overland is going to be completed and will that affect the response time for this property?
May not know that.
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I don't have a specific date for
you, but I live over there and I can tell you it's -- it's going up rapidly, but I'm -- I would
imagine that's why it's under construction to address some of those response times. So,
can imagine that that would probably improve once that station is up and functioning.
Perreault: Will that be the closest station to this --
Parsons: Yes.
Perreault: -- location? Okay. Any idea if they are going to have a new truck by that time?
So, that's what -- was that one of the things that it discusses in the report is that they need
a truck and, then, it's at least three miles from -- away currently. You know --
Parsons: Yeah. Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, I don't know what's in the
Fire Department CIP for this year or what's -- what's coming online. That's something
that they need to either continue this out, get more information or -- or move forward as
-- as proposed this evening. Again, a lot of these items, just for your information, yes,
there is four story apartments. We don't see a lot of tall buildings in Meridian and so I
have been in several meetings where Fire Department representatives have been there
and they have stated that that's just it, they are not equipped at this point to deal with
those types of structures, because they have one ladder truck to serve all of these high
rises and that's the conversations they keep having. So, I believe the impact fees pay for
some of that, but it doesn't pay for personnel if I understand right. So, again, the Fire
Department is going to have to get a handle on that and -- and figure that out. But typically
a structure this size it is fire sprinklered per code. It has to be. So, that does help with
some of those response times if there is a fire or something like that, that kicks on, but
there is always other emergencies that -- that occur that are just more than fire related,
but there could always be other incidents that happen there. But that's really their primary
concern is just the height of the new structures and having the right apparatus to fight it.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 34 of 60
Holland: I think overall I -- I like the layout of the development. I think I like this east
version better than I like the first one, because I like the way that they have allocated the
green space and that there is some nice amenities that kind of flow together. One concern
would be maybe with how Ten Mile Creek crosses across Wayfinder, that there might be
some sort of traffic calming measure there, because the -- one of the major exits for both
structures, the east and the west complex, looks like it comes out right before that
pathway. So, I worry a little bit about kids on bikes trying to cross over to the other side
to go see their friends or whatnot and having some accidents there. So, that's just
something I wanted to point out. Don't know that I necessarily have something I want to
put in a motion around it, but something I would want to open up for discussion, too, if
there is something we need to worry about there. My other concern was also the addition
of more stoplights on Ten Mile, because I know it's a major commuting corridor that is
next to a freeway and the more stoplights you have the slower traffic goes, because you
got more things to stop for. I always hate seeing traffic funnel onto the major roads that
connect to freeways.
Perreault: I agree. I go through that intersection every day, so not excited to hear about
two more stoplights going in and the time addition it's going to take to go through that
area for sure. Absolutely a need for a stoplight at Vanguard and that future half mile on
Franklin. I wasn't aware that they were going to put additional lights in at the quarter mile
on either side. I don't know that there is anything that we -- I'm not sure that there is not
-- that is much we can -- can do about it and I don't know how that relates to, you know,
approval or denial of the conditional use permit. Anymore thoughts?
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: Just to kind of reiterate a little bit of what's already been said, I really -- I like the
concept of -- of -- of this phase in particular. Again, I think it's been referred to as a -- kind
of resort style and to me that's what it reminds me of. I mean you could plop this in the
middle of a nice little resort down in Mexico and people would be happy with the layout of
it. So, that part of it I really really like. That said I share the same concerns as the other
Commissioners with -- with traffic and safety. I mean the other part is the school's -- the
report that came back from the schools, although it was a little bit ambiguous, the numbers
are -- we are not maxing out the schools. However, the information that they have for the
school numbers is a little bit dated as well and putting in high density units like this is
really going to push those numbers faster than they can reciprocate and build. That's --
that's a concern as well. So, just the overall growth of Meridian seems to be happening
faster than our services can keep up with and I don't think we are helping that cause by
continuing to push things like this in.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 35 of 60
Fitzgerald: Well, I'm going to be the opposite of all of you I think, because I think this is
guess where I live or how I lived, but we are building a product to serve the people that
are working to the south. So, all the traffic concerns is -- this is to avoid that. The concept
of this whole area of Ten Mile Creek and the whole area was to get people out of their
cars, into their shoes and into bikes to work. So, I'm concerned -- I'm confused. This is
the whole point of keeping people in this area. So, I guess I'm confused. People are not
-- it's easy to get on the freeway, so that's easy for those folks. But a lot of these people
who are living there are going to work five minutes away or five seconds away. So, I think
the -- I mean that's what -- if you look at Silver Creek and some of the places over there,
people that work at Citibank, they live right next door and, again, it gets them out of their
cars and I think the challenge we have is sprawl. This gets rid of sprawl. And so I'm
confused I guess. I guess to go the opposite -- the complete opposite direction of where
you guys are going. Because it does not have a traffic concern to me at all, because this
is -- this product it beats the traffic issue. People are going to work where they live and
eat at the restaurants that are going to be up to the north part of this -- of this property.
So, I love the product. I think it's great. I guess I come at it from a completely different
angle of being -- when I -- especially when I lived back in Virginia and DC areas, you
wanted this kind of product, because you weren't in your car. You live, you work, and you
kind of get recreation, those kinds of things, where you live and that's -- it gets rid of
sprawl. So, that's one of my -- it's a different product, it's a different product mix, and
think that the point is to get everybody out of their cars. If they do need to get in their car
and go somewhere the freeway is right there. So, I'm -- I guess I'm -- I'm taking a
completely different tack. And I think -- I mean I understand the fire concerns. I think the
new fire station will alleviate the majority of that. The fire -- I think the ladder truck is a
whole different discussion. But I'm less worried about the traffic issues and -- that are
brought was this kind of product, because I think that's -- I think we need more of living
near where you work, so we don't have to get in our cars.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Just one more comment to clarify. My concern was not necessarily about the
amount of traffic that this product would cause, because I agree with what you just said.
I think the more you put dense housing closer to the interstate access points so you don't
have people funneling longer distances --
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Holland: -- makes sense. You have got people close the employment centers. My only
hesitation was I hate seeing two more stoplights being added there.
Fitzgerald: I understand that.
Holland: And I know that's not something that we may be able to control with this one,
but I just wanted to clarify that. I agree, I think overall I like this development. This is the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 36 of 60
right place for it. I think they have done a really nice job of planning out the Ten Mile
Creek area and having the lifestyle center kind of scheduled in the middle of the
employment center on the downside, housing up on top. It's a smart development. I don't
disagree with that.
Cassinelli: I would probably have a different opinion had Ten Mile been seven lanes
going through there and we -- we are not even -- I mean if you look at it there is still a
whole lot to be built out in that area.
Fitzgerald: I think we are --
Cassinelli: You can't stop it. What I would like to see -- and I'm going to jump -- jump
ahead to something that -- that you said on that -- in that connection there. I agree with
you. We could condition for a Hawk signal or something else and if that -- at the crossing
of the -- of the creek there to be implemented and -- and if -- if we could -- if we were to
condition it to get some of that traffic to flow to -- I think it's Vanguard that has the signal
right in there -- right there prior to -- prior to occupancy -- you know, unless they can get
out there and add more -- add two more lanes on -- on -- on Ten Mile real quick, but
would also -- I think I would want to see that -- the fire station on Overland built. If that's
-- and find out from the Fire Department if -- once that's built up if that will bring the -- the
response time up above the 85 percent and if that's the case condition it for occupancy
not occur before that station is finished and staffed.
Perreault: So, I agree about the pedestrian safety. I also have concerns -- and this is not
necessarily something that we are deciding, but just looking at the overall project that,
you know, this is a commercial residential mixed use, right, and so with it having a regional
pathway, it's -- it's -- it's larger, it's intended for more pedestrian traffic, that I would
recommend and perhaps the developer's already considered this, trying to protect that --
that open space from -- from, you know, pedestrians that are coming through there that
are not residents and I can see people, assuming that is a public use park, depending on
how much traffic -- I mean I don't know how much traffic will come through on that
pedestrian walkway, but once all of this is filled out that could be an interesting situation
for those residents to have a lot of people coming in and using that that don't -- that don't
live there. So, just as a safety factor I would like to see some sort of separation, whether
it's landscaping -- something that just sort of discourages people from using that space
that aren't residents there. So, just -- just a little recommendation for that. Anything else?
Commissioner McCarvel, thoughts you would like to share?
McCarvel: Absolutely. I think overall it, obviously, is a fabulous project in the resort style
and I think the lights are going to be there -- I mean would we okay this tonight or not, I
mean those lights are planning to go in. I -- I would tend to agree with Commissioner
Fitzgerald that this is -- I mean what this whole corner was designed -- this whole area is
designed to be is -- and the other stuff doesn't come until the residential is in and there is
people there, so -- you know, some of the work -- the jobs and stuff are, obviously, on the
southern part of that, but the other retail kind of things, you know, that will help alleviate
traffic because people use the facilities that are there. Those won't come until this stuff
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 37 of 60
goes in, so -- and I agree -- I think -- you know, the -- the fire station is in the works and
I'm sure with more structures, then, that creates a demand for the equipment to be able
to handle it.
Holland; Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Do you want to condition something with your recommendation of having some
sort of landscaping buffer on the edge of the park or did you just want to leave that up
there as kind of a thought.
Perreault: The challenge with that is I'm not versed enough in this to make a specific
recommendation what they should do, but I would just request that -- and, again, the
public hearing is closed and so they don't -- they wouldn't have the chance to comment
on this, but I would -- I would highly recommend to the developer that they consider some
sort of deterrent from the public using that space that that might be passing through on
the regional pathway. I'm not sure that we can really put that in as any kind of a
requirement necessarily, can we? Bill, is that something that -- that we can -- a
recommendation we can make or is that something that's even -- I mean that's part of the
conditional use permit. We really can -- we can add that in there I assume. Are you
tracking with me?
Parsons: Yeah, I am, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. Certainly it's a
conditional use permit, if you want them to distinguish their common open space from the
pathway you can -- you can include that as a recommendation. But I would be cautious
as to what goes there. I mean certainly we -- as you mentioned safety concerns, we don't
want to wall people off, create dark spots, blind spots, have thick vegetation where we
are not keeping eyes on the pathway either for our police department, so that's why the
applicant has pulled that building down and oriented all that open space, because it does
keep it more open and visible into that area. So, if we do that -- I mean certainly you can
do that with fencing or you can do it with low scrubs. I think the applicant's well versed in
designing projects. They would probably come up with something. But if that's something
that you want them to distinguish that area from the pathway, I think they are fine with an
open-ended condition and just work with staff on what that looks like. As long as we
coordinate with the fire -- or, excuse me, the police department and make sure, again, we
don't create any sight obstruction into that -- up that pathway system. Again, we need all
eyes on that.
Perreault: I think it's wise, but I'm hesitant for us to put it in as an absolute requirement
of the conditional use permit. What do the other Commissioners think about that?
Cassinelli: We could perhaps recommend -- we could ask for some sort of a separation,
but -- and, then, recommend something -- either low shrubs or, you know, a four foot
wrought iron fence, something that's not -- it's not -- that sort of says this is private
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 38 of 60
property, but it's not going to obstruct views or anything. I don't know if it could just be a
recommendation or --
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Madam Chair, I -- you know, I think this developer has done a lot of
developments throughout the community and I think if we give them the flexibility and we
have just made note that that is a public concern, that they could watch that and if it
becomes something where there is a lot of people using that pathway in the future that
end up going onto the property that they would take measures to rectify it at that point.
Perreault: I agree.
Holland: Because it's not an issue either. I don't want to have them spend a bunch of
money to put up fencing that makes it more restrictive for the residents to access the
pathway. I would say we could kind of give them some discretion on -- just giving them
advice here, that they could be reactive if they need to be.
Perreault: I agree. Any other thoughts?
Seal: Yeah, Madam Chair.
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: I agree with -- I agree with the notion of having something that delineates the -- the
private property marker in there. At the same time I really like the open concept of it, the
ability to have that unobstructed view that's out there. So, I have mixed feelings about
both -- both views on that.
Perreault: Yeah. We definitely don't want to take away the appeal and the reason that
they faced it that direction in the first place, but I agree with Commissioner Holland, I'm
hesitant to actually make it a condition, but I think it would recommend to the -- the
applicant that if they haven't already discussed that or, you know, given that consideration
that they -- that they do so for public safety purposes. So, Commissioner Cassinelli,
would you -- would you say with -- have you thought about this more and do you have
some things that would -- that you could propose that would satisfy you or --
Cassinelli: I mentioned the two things that possibly condition for. I will -- inasmuch as I
appreciate the fact that this is -- it's a -- the overall concept of live -work I think it's great
and I know there is -- there is some fantastic developments all over the country that kind
of look at this. My problem is -- is, number one, again, the -- the outdated traffic study
here that will probably be -- these numbers are probably well beyond that in this -- maybe
not a hundred percent add to the traffic, it's going to add to it and, then, everything else
we got going on in that corner. We are going to have to eventually figure out something
-- some way that all these pieces are going to work and I could -- I could attempt a motion
here to try and get something that would fit, but the two things that I mentioned that -- if
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 39 of 60
I'm going to see it go in what I would like to see is -- is that -- the north -south connector
brought down -- the two roundabouts connected before -- before occupancy, so that the
people will be able to funnel out. I'm not looking at the map, the name of that street.
Seal: Wayfinder.
Cassinelli: What is it?
Seal: Wayfinder.
Cassinelli: No. To the -- over to Ten Mile.
McCarvel: Vanguard.
Cassinelli: Vanguard. Vanguard. And the completion of the fire station on -- because
think -- it sounds like once that's completed and staffed that the response times will be
there and it sounds like that's -- if that's moving along that will probably happen before --
before occupancy, but -- to put those two things in there.
Perreault: So, can I make a recommendation?
Cassinelli: Yeah.
Perreault: Since I cannot make a motion. Before we ask the applicant to -- because, of
course, if they -- when they put that future section in there they are going to have to be,
you know, putting in the water lines and it's not just a paved section, it's going to be
infrastructure as well and I don't know what their timing is on that, but just is your concern
that the residents are not able to get out of the -- I mean can you kind of clarify more
specifically why you want to make sure that that's extended to Vanguard. They can
certainly head up Wayfinder and make a right onto Franklin if they are -- if they are not
able to exit at a light at Vanguard? I mean I don't know what the timing -- Mr. Wardle said
this is -- this is a little ways out, so -- right? They haven't finished the second building for
phase one and, then, they still have to put in all the infrastructure for -- for phase two. So,
we are a little ways out. I would guess that the Fire Department probably will be done by
then. But before we ask them to add that -- that road between the roundabouts
preliminarily, I would like more specifics on why you would like to see that connected. Is
it just for ease of access?
Cassinelli: I think it's just -- it will -- I -- it will get people off a Ten Mile -- those that are --
those that are living there and that aren't working there and that are working elsewhere,
I think if they are coming in off the freeway it will get them off Ten Mile right there at
Vanguard and it can also avoid -- they will get onto Ten Mile at Vanguard with a light or
eventually Cobalt and I just think it will get them -- I feel that it will help alleviate some of
the traffic on Ten Mile by giving them -- that light at Vanguard so close to the -- to the
freeway that I think -- and I believe Mr. Wardle mentioned that they were working on that
piece as quickly as -- I mean that they are -- they are going -- they are trying to move that
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 40 of 60
forward as quickly as possible and I don't know if maybe we can get with a nod if he feels
that that would be there prior to occupancy in that phase two. So, I would -- if -- if he's
nodding in that, that -- that they think they can get that done, that would help me in my
concerns, because I do think it would -- I do think that traffic coming -- you know, in the
evening traffic coming off the freeway can exit Vanguard right there and get -- get there
and, then, again, in the -- in the a.m. hours they can come out Vanguard, get right on the
freeway and alleviate some of that. I mean the traffic is going to be backed up with two
lights on there on Ten Mile anyway, so it's -- but it will help them flow a little bit better.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair and Commissioner Cassinelli. So, I think in reading recent
reports -- and Bill can correct me -- the station is going to be done by March of this next
year. So, you have got not very much time. There is no way they can get out of the
ground and be occupied by anywhere close to that. So, those two things I think -- and
-- I mean we are getting the signal from Mr. Wardle I think he would be good with the
north -south piece, so -- as long as it's before occupancy I don't think you have a problem
with those two things.
Perreault: Yeah. I just -- I mean I don't -- to me it's not -- these units aren't going to create
enough traffic issues to require the developer to put in that section of road, bringing in all
the infrastructure that much earlier in the process from -- from when they will do it when
they actually develop all of this and if the -- and traffic's going to always take least
resistance; right? So, most likely these folks are going to go out Wayfinder. Now, it's not
ideal if they make a left onto Wayfinder and another left on Ten Mile, you know, to kind of
come around the corner and to head south to the interstate. That's not ideal for sure. So,
I think the timing of how this is all going to work out and how long it's going to take to build
all three of these buildings, we are -- we are a ways before we get to the point that that's
going to -- it's going to significantly affect traffic and even so how long is it before -- I mean
is there even a plan for Ten Mile to be widened any further at this point? I don't think --
Cassinelli: I don't think there is. So, what's that going to do for everything else that's
going to be coming before us. Again, we are -- this is adding -- and, again, a two year
old study. Their peak traffic hour count was 1,786. This is estimating another 103. But,
again, that's a two year old study. So, that number is probably over 2,000 right now and
we are putting in more and more and more and more and --
Perreault: Well, let me clarify. I'm not proposing one or the other or advocating for one
or the other, I'm just trying to make sure that we are -- we are clearly putting on the public
record our specific concerns for the benefit of the applicant and the benefit of the public,
just -- you know.
Cassinelli: Thank you for -- I mean if it's all going to happen, as far as that -- that future
connection from Vanguard to -- to Cobalt, if we condition for it -- it's going to happen
anyway, so it's not -- it's not going to mess up their -- their schedule I don't think, but it's
-- it is going to -- to put that there that -- that's got to be completed. But, again, I just think
that that's going to get -- if this -- if ACHD is estimating 103, that will get them right --
almost right there. I mean between Vanguard and once they get out on -- onto Ten Mile
Meridian Planning & Zoning commission
September 19, 2019
Page 41 of 60
from Vanguard they are on the freeway. So, I think that's going to -- that's going to -- to
me that would help alleviate the extra 103 really impacting Ten Mile a whole lot and, then,
likewise, when they are coming off the freeway in the evening, those 103, they are going
to exit right there -- or possibly Cobalt, but most likely Vanguard. At least that's going to
keep those 103 off the majority of Ten Mile. So, that would -- it would -- it would help.
Perreault: So, to be -- to be clear, you are not necessarily suggesting that this be denied,
but, rather, that we put some conditions in there for traffic flow and timing?
Cassinelli: I think it's impossible tonight -- it's impossible to -- ultimately I would say --
would say --
Perreault: We are not ready for more development? I'm hearing, you know, that we are
not are ready --
Cassinelli: The infrastructure is not ready for -- for more development. I mean that that's
obvious. Again, with a -- you know, a two year old study. It's just -- to me it's ridiculous
that ACHD is not on top of these things a little bit more. But it is what it is and there is
more development coming there. But we are -- we can't stop it, but we got to figure out
a way to make it fit. I think to me, just from what I'm seeing here, overall, again, I -- overall
think this project is a -- is a great looking project. I think the way it fits with the work --
with the -- with a work -live lifestyle, it's a great area there, but I'm just looking at some of
the other concerns. The fire -- if we condition for the fire to not be completed, it's going
to happen. So, we will just condition it's -- that condition will be checked. If we can get
this traffic onto there, I -- I will be happy. I will be okay. Does that answer your question
there?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Madam Chair, I was just going to say, it looks like the applicant was willing to
come back up if we wanted to reopen the hearing for him to speak, but I think reading
body language and what we have heard from staff in the room, that if we were to put a
condition that asked the applicant to connect Wayfinder to Vanguard prior to occupancy,
they would potentially be amenable to that. So, I -- I wouldn't have a concern putting that
in the conditions. I would be happy to make a motion if anybody was ready for that, but,
if not, we can keep talking.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair? Are you putting
Was that going to be on your -- okay. Bec
would be amenable to where you are going
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Oh, Commissioner Seal.
-- are you putting traffic calming conditions?
cruse I think I know where you're going, so I
I think.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 42 of 60
Seal: I just -- I had a question on the crossing at Ten Mile Creek across Wayfinder. There
has been some talk about how to signalize that, basically. Is that something that we can
request on that? I mean because it's not their road and so how do we -- how do we go
about making that -- I just want to make sure we -- if we are going to put that in as a
condition that is something that's a reality.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair? I don't know if there needs to be a signal.
Perreault: No.
Fitzgerald: But I think traffic calming there -- you know, a choker or something like that.
Something that shows --
Perreault: A sign.
Fitzgerald: -- that it's a crosswalk that -- or signage. I think that's reasonable. I don't
think a light's necessary.
Cassinelli: Well, I'm not thinking a light, but I suggest a Hawk signal.
Fitzgerald: Okay. I mean I don't know if that's necessary, but --
Perreault: I think the bump with some -- with some stripes and a sign is probably
sufficient.
Seal: Traffic calming is probably the right verb.
Cassinelli: And maybe it's that -- is that something that staff can use --
Perreault: They are going to go around that roundabout. I don't know that --
Cassinelli: You ought to see the way they drive on my street.
Seal: Well, I mean -- and I agree with what Commissioner Cassinelli was talking about
as far as connecting Vanguard Way in, because the majority of people that -- I would
guess the majority of people that are going to be in here are probably going to be younger
people that don't have the wisdom that some older people have and, you know, laying off
the gas pedal sometimes. So, the same concern that I have for the Ten Mile Creek
crossing goes for everything else, especially coming out Cobalt Drive or Wayfinder
Avenue and going into -- you know, basically crossing traffic in order to get onto either
Ten Mile or Franklin Road before the -- the stoplights are put in there.
Perreault: So, I have no doubt as we have seen in other developments that people will
start using Wayfinder and Vanguard as a -- as a way around Ten Mile and Franklin. It's
going to happen. People are going to start driving through there. They are going to use
it as a way to, you know, bypass -- right? So, that -- the traffic calming measures are
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 43 of 60
absolutely necessary and I hope they actually look at that for that entire stretch, not just
that one section as this gets developed. I would like to see that in some way, whether
that's the speed limit or however that's done. It's not in our decision this evening, of
course, but definitely -- and we see that big problem with Woodbridge right now, people
coming through there from Locust Grove to Eagle and it's creating some big issues for
sure. Before we -- before you make a motion I just wanted to say a general statement.
As we are talking about the comp plan this evening, you know, we are -- we are hearing
a lot -- we hear a lot from the public just general comments about growth and about --
specifically hearing a lot of feedback from the public about too many apartment buildings
come in, too many applications being approved for apartments. Not in the right locations.
Yet at the same time we know that there is a -- that there is a need for some denser --
some denser living and we know that the code requires the city to bring in additional
housing options and so as we are looking at the city as a whole, these -- this type of
location is the most ideal type of location for this. So -- so, I know this is tough, because
as the -- as the city gets more and more vocal about their concerns regarding density, if
we choose to deny an application like this or, you know, and say, no, we don't want to
proceed, because there is -- the infrastructure is not up to date, I just wanted to -- and we
are looking at this specific application, but I also think that there is a lot bigger
conversation going on citywide and every time that we make one of these decisions I
know the Commission is acutely aware of the -- what they are communicating to the public
about, you know, the overall. So, I wanted to just put that out there.
Cassinelli: And not to make this night go super long, but to add one thing that I'm not --
and I said it up front, I'm not opposed to the project. I like the project. I think it's a fantastic
looking project. I think there was -- you know, I mentioned the resort thing as well. My
issue is with the disconnect between ACHD and the City of Meridian and that they are
-- they are working at their own pace doing whatever they want and the infrastructure in
the city is not ready for these developments. I'm not opposed to the development. I think
it's -- I think it's -- I think it's a great development in the right location. My problem is just
with -- with the infrastructure, because it is out of our control.
Perreault: I'm sure there is one more commissioner that agrees with you on that and
actually really appreciate the tools that the city is working on to see if they can't bridge
that gap. I mean I think those surface tools that we discussed this evening are going to
help with that -- you know, being able to identify areas where services -- service levels
are higher. I hope that that will make some headway with what you're describing. But
there is a disconnect. But back to the conditional use permit. So, are we ready for
motion?
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: After considering staff, applicant, and public testimony, I move to approve file
number H-2019-0089 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of September
19th, 2019, with the following modifications: That we would strike condition 3-H related
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 44 of 60
to the southeast access of the site. That we would strike condition eight related to the
floodplain. That we would modify condition ten to read the subject property shall be
subdivided prior to the issuance of occupancy for the first structure on the site. That the
applicant would work with staff and ACHD on finding an appropriate traffic calming
measure for the pedestrian traffic on Ten Mile Creek Crossing, with the regional pathway.
To consider options like a Hawk signal, speed bumps, signage, et cetera. And the
applicant would connect Wayfinder to Vanguard prior to occupancy of the structure. And
to make Commissioner Cassinelli happy, that the Fire Department would -- the fire
building would be constructed prior to occupancy on this as well.
Cassinelli: I will second that.
Fitzgerald: Absolutely.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to approve file number H-2019-0089 with
the stated modifications. All those in favor say aye. Opposed? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: SIX AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Perreault: Thank you very much. Okay. Are we all good or do we need a break? Five
minutes?
McCarvel: No.
Perreault: No? Move along?
McCarvel: Let's keep moving.
B. Public Hearing for Idaho Fine Arts Academy (H-2019-0088)
by West Ada School District, Located at 915 E. Central Dr.
Request for Rezone of 18.96 acres from the I -L (Light
Industrial) zoning district to the C -G (General Retail and
Service District).
Perreault: Okay. All right. Next application. Public hearing for -- we are committed here
at the Planning & Zoning Commission. Public hearing for Idaho Fine Arts Academy, H-
2019-0088. Let's begin with the staff report.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair, can I make a comment prior to this one or do you want me to
hold that?
Perreault: Yes.
Cassinelli: Yes.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 45 of 60
Perreault: Can you make a comment? Oh, yes. Absolutely.
Cassinelli: Okay. I just want to let -- to be on the public record and let my fellow
Commissioners know that I do have a -- even though it's part of West Ada and that's --
that's huge. I do have a student at Idaho Fine Arts Academy and it is a small school and
of itself. I feel I can be impartial on any decision, but I want to let everybody know and if
any of my fellow Commissioners have an objection to that I would be happy to recuse
myself.
Perreault: Any concern?
Fitzgerald: No, ma'am
McCarvel: No.
Seal: Same here.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you. Begin with the staff report.
Holmes: All right. Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. The item
before you is the Idaho Fine Arts Academy rezone application. The site consists of 18.96
acres of land. It's currently zoned I -L, located at 915 East Central Drive. Just to the north
of 1-84. The site is adjacent to the interstate on the south and is surrounded by properties
zoned C -G on all other sides. There is office uses to the west. The Idaho State Police
campus is to the north. And the joint ISU-Renaissance High -West Ada campus is to the
east. Most recently this year the property was subdivided through a short plat process
creating two lots that you see here. Borderline just south of where the grass ends. This
also included the approval of an access drive along this eastern boundary. You may have
noticed that the parking lot on the south there did just start under construction recently.
It has been approved through the administrative process as well. The Comprehensive
Plan future land use map designation is commercial. The West Ada School District is
requesting a rezone of this property from the light industrial to the general retain and
service, C -G zoning. The current light industrial zoning does not allow for educational
institution -- institutions, while they are a principally permitted use in the C -G zone. On
the northern lot, West Ada has submitted a conceptual plan which you see here for a Fine
Arts Academy located in the northeast corner. Staff is supportive of the overall use, but
the specifics of this site layout and building design will actually be reviewed through the
CZC and design review process. So, this specific site layout is not really tied to the
rezone. And typically the city does require a development agreement with any rezone
application, but in this case staff is recommending that none be executed for a couple
reasons. First, the proposed C -G zoning matches up with all the surrounding properties,
as opposed to what it is currently zoned, I -L. So, in the case -- even if it -- you know, the
school district plans fell through and the property changed ownership, any development
would have to comply with the standard UDC requirements of the C -G zoning, which
would limit any uses to compatible -- you know, compatible uses with the surrounding
areas or would require a conditional use permit to come before you. In addition, the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 46 of 60
Comprehensive Plan does direct staff to, quote, look for ways to streamline the permitting
and land use review process for approval of new school facilities, end quote. And so by
foregoing a DA we would eliminate the need for the school district to come back to Council
potentially multiple times as they progress through developing facilities on this site. So,
you will still, as I said, review all proposed development through the CZC and design
review process to ensure all code and design standards are met. We have received
written testimony from Jacob Revard, a representative for the school district, and he is in
agreement with all the conditions of the staff report and with that staff is recommending
approval with the conditions listed in the staff report and will stand for any questions.
Perreault: Any questions for staff?
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Kevin, is that -- the soccer fields that are there, is that school district property?
Is that a park? What is that? And that -- will that be remaining? Where are we at with --
Holmes: So, this whole area that you see here, bounded by the kind of pink trees and
the parking lot to the south, is all school district property. I believe they currently have an
agreement where they lease out that. They work with the Meridian Parks Department
and, then, lease that athletic field out for events. From my conversations with the school
district that athletic field is planned on staying for the time being. Potentially in the future
it could redevelop, but the plan is first to do this fine arts academy in the northeast corner.
Eventually some administrative offices to the south there, still retaining the athletic field,
but, then, after that --
Perreault: Thank you. Would the applicant please come forward.
Revard: My name is Jake Revard with Hummel Architects. 2785 Bogus Basin Road,
Boise, Idaho. Thank you for allowing me to come and present to you and thanks for the
staff for putting together the staff report. I just want to say that we are in agreement with
the recommendation that they have stated -- as earlier stated. Regarding this there is not
a lot -- much to say about this, because we haven't had a chance to really design, this is
more of a rezoning. What you see currently on the site plan is more schematic to go
through this process. This is the anticipation of the area in which it will be placed. One
thing that is not shown on here is that there actually is a dedicated turning lane that is
going to be added to it as they construct this parking lot and this additional thoroughfare
through there. One thing as you -- Commissioner Cassinelli said is that Idaho Fine Arts
School is small and there is a huge need for it to grow and this does -- West Ada School
District has been wishing to do so for a long time and with the city growing as it has it's
been very difficult to do so. However, they have the ability to do so now and the benefit
of having where it's at right now is that instead of being in Eagle you are going to provide
it more centrally located within the West Ada School District to allow more students to
attend as well and there is also the added benefit being right next to Renaissance High
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 47 of 60
School is like growing up two and so one fine arts and, then, one of science in which they
can create a really comingling of education. Our hope is to be able to create something
really fantastic. With that said I don't have any other comments to say. If you guys have
any questions I would be happy to take them.
Perreault: Questions for the applicant? One thing I would say is since it's unlikely that
the actual building design or anything that's going to come before us as a Commission,
my -- my one main concern is nothing to do with the rezone, but I just want to put it out
there, is the intersection right there at Central Drive and Stafford is dangerous. People
fly around there so quickly and so I don't know if the -- the turn lane that you mentioned
will alleviate some of that or if -- but I do have concerns about if they stay with this plan
the distance between the first turn in at this parking lot here and that corner is only about
240 feet and so I hope that they redesign this in a way and that they will actually get
access permission to move that further to the east, because I think that that's going to be
-- unless there is something that addresses how traffic moves around that corner, that's
an unsafe location.
Revard: I can't -- I can't speak exactly what -
Perreault: Yeah.
Revard: -- is going to happen at this moment, but there has been discussion with the
school district that they will come in and through the new entryway and through that
roundabout and come on the backside instead for the safety concern, so that was brought
up.
Perreault: Thank you so much. I just wanted to be opinionated about that. Okay. So,
there is no questions for the applicant. All right. Thank you. Was there anyone that has
signed? Thank you, Jake.
Revard: Either one. Jake or Jacob.
Okay. Thank you. Is there anyone signed up?
Weatherly: Madam Chair, no one signed up.
Perreault: Is there anyone in the room who would like to speak on this application? Okay.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I move that we close the public hearing on H-2019-0088 for Idaho Fine Arts
Academy.
Holland: Second.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 48 of 60
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for H-2019-0088.
All those in favor say aye. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: SIX AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I think this is very much needed. I don't think there is an I -L zone that needs
to be anywhere close to the school. I mean -- I think that's a reasonable zone change.
-- they are going to have another shot at coming back to Council with what they are going
to design this with. That area is going to grow into a campus for ISU, for Renaissance for
West Ada. It's going to be -- it will be cool to see it go probably all the way to Locust
Grove, especially with the new orthopedic school -- for the osteopathic school there.
would just request that we have Truffula trees be required as a condition -- Truffula trees.
The pink Truffula. Just joking. I'm sorry. It's getting late. No, I'm joking. I think this is
reasonable and -- and should be absolutely the case.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: City Council is scratching their heads when they are reading what Truffula trees
means, but --
Fitzgerald: Truffula trees. Come one.
Holland: I would agree with the -- with comments made. I think this is a -- it's not the right
site for industrial as much as I love industrial sites. This is not the one that you would put
there. It needs to be commercial. So, I'm in agreement that this should be a rezone to
commercial and I think it's a great time for the school and a good partnership.
Cassinelli: I want to pick truffles off a tree. But in lieu of that I would agree with the --
with -- I am in favor of the zone change.
McCarvel: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner McCarvel.
McCarvel: Absolutely. It totally makes sense to get that I -L zoning out of there with and
anything else that's around there.
Perreault: Commissioner Seal, anything to add?
Seal: Nothing to add. I can go for a motion if we are ready. I think we are.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 49 of 60
Perreault: Before we vote do any Commissioners have anything to say about the DA and
the staff recommendation that we -- to not need a DA?
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: I don't -- I -- for the reasons that Kevin explained I think it's reasonable, so
they don't have to come back multiple times to get what they want from the school district.
think it's reasonable to not have a DA at this time. I think staff knows when that's
necessary to come back before Council when an application comes in. They can do that
at that time.
Cassinelli: Agreed.
Perreault: Okay.
Fitzgerald: Can I add a condition that I want Truffula trees? Nobody gets the Lorax.
Sorry.
Perreault: It is the first -- the first rendering I have ever seen with pink trees, though.
love it. If someone would like to make a motion?
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: After considering all staff, applicant and public testimony, I move to recommend
approval of the City Council of file number H-2019-0088 as presented in the staff report
for the hearing date of September 19th, 2019.
Fitzgerald: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to recommend H-2019-0088 to recommend
approval to City Council. All those in favor? Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: SIX AYES. ONE ABSENT.
C. Public Hearing for Nick Estates Subdivision (H-2019-0086)
by LR Geomatics, PLLC., Located 1180 N. Ten Mile Rd.
1. Request: To combine preliminary/final plat consisting of 4
building lots on 1.4 acres of land in the R-4 zoning district
Perreault: Thank you. All right. Next we will open the public hearing for Nick Estates
Subdivision, H-2019-0086. Let's begin with the staff report.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 50 of 60
Holmes: Thank you, Madam Chair, Members of the Commission. This is a combined
preliminary and final plat application for Nick Estates Subdivision. This is a 1.4 acre piece
of land zoned R-4, located at 1180 North Ten Mile. So, between Cherry Lane and
Franklin. The property is surrounded by other single family home subdivisions with R-4
and R-8 zonings. The Comprehensive Plan future land use map designation has this as
medium dense residential, which calls for three to eight units per acre. This request is for
four building lots on, as I said, 1.4 acres in the R-4 zoning district. There is an existing
home, as you can see in this image here, on the property that is proposed to remain.
There is also an accessory structure that is proposed to be removed. The gross density
of the proposal does come in at 2.84 dwelling units per acre, which is slightly less than
the three to eight units per acre envisioned by the medium dense -- density residential
FLUM designation. As such staff has advised the applicants that a request to step down
the density to light density residential would be appropriate if they wish to keep this
proposed configuration. The applicant has indicated that this is the route they would like
to take. Staff supports this requested step down due to both as being in -fill development
and that the configuration of the property makes it difficult to hit the desired medium
density residential unit counts. Overall staff believes that the proposed density is
compatible with the surrounding residential developments. The submitted plan does
show the existing home retaining its access to Ten Mile Road right here, while the other
three homes take access via shared common drive to the north. The applicant is
requesting a waiver from Council to retain this existing access as allowed per UDC 11-
3A-3. Staff is recommending, though, that this existing access be closed and that all
homes in the development share the common drive access. This recommendation
includes the installation of the required 25 foot wide landscape buffer where the current
driveways is and ACHD in their staff report has also had a -- has a condition stating the
same request with reconfiguration. In addition, staff is recommending that a minimum 20
foot wide cross -access easement be recorded from the common drive to the northern
property line, so it should be somewhere in this area. I think it's about a 16 foot wide strip
there. This is in the event that the property to the north would ever redevelop, this would
allow them to take access via this common driveway and limit their access points to Ten
Mile. So, basically, consolidating all the access points as well as we can. As you probably
know, common drives are limited to a maximum of six homes taking access off of one.
So, this condition really would only be applicable if the property to the north redeveloped
with one or two homes, just kind of a backstop to help the flow of traffic along Ten Mile in
the future. The applicant has also submitted some conceptual elevations as you can see
here. So, single story, single family homes. We have received written testimony from
Aaron Rush, the applicant's representative, generally in agreement with the staff report,
except for condition A-8, which is the requirement for the cross -access agreement that
we just discussed to the property to the north and to condition B-18, which is a Public
Works condition, which requires the installation of a streetlight along North Ten Mile Road
in accord with Section 6-3 of the Meridian Design Standards. With that staff is
recommending approval with all the conditions listed in the staff report and will stand for
any questions.
Perreault: Any questions for staff? Okay.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 51 of 60
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Oh, Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: Am I -- the drive -- the driveway for the existing property -- to the shared
driveway, is that distance I'm seeing as 41 feet? Forty-one feet; is that correct?
Holmes: Madam Chair, Commissioner Cassinelli, correct, yeah. Forty-one feet.
Cassinelli: So, right now the -- and ACHD is okay with having two access points?
Holmes: Madam Chair, Commissioner Cassinelli, they are -- they are actually
recommending that the existing drive be closed as well and so that all homes are taking
access off of that common shared drive.
Cassinelli: Okay.
Holmes: That's their recommendation as well.
Cassinelli: I'm sorry. I thought it -- I thought it was -- they were wanting to keep the
existing driveway in that current home.
Holmes: No.
Cassinelli: No? Okay. I apologize.
Holmes: Sorry if I was unclear.
Cassinelli: Thank you.
Perreault: Would the applicant please come forward. Thank you for your patience this
evening. It's been a long meeting. Please state your name and address for the record.
Rush: Madam Chair and Commissioner, my name is Aaron Rush. I'm a land surveyor
with LR Geomatics and representing the client, the owner of the property.
Perreault: Please do speak directly into the microphone. That helps us with recording.
Rush: Oh, sorry. Yeah. I'm not used to this. I don't do a lot of this.
Perreault: Thank you.
Rush: So, yes, we were in general agreement with the staff report and I want to thank
the staff for giving us all the attention that they have on this application. You know -- you
know, especially seeing the -- the application earlier that you guys deal with, obviously,
they are dealing with a lot of major, you know, developments and things going on in the
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 52 of 60
city right now and so the attention we got has been great. Of course, the owner was
hoping to be able to keep this access to the existing home, but we understand, you know,
the traffic concerns and the -- the rules that ACHD has set up that that's going to be closed
and so the only two conditions that I really wanted to speak about was, first, the cross -
access easement that's being proposed to serve the parcel to the north. I think that staff
may have answered my concern in that that would be limited to two parcels. My concern
is if that gets developed into a -- you know, an apartment complex or something that has
a greater density of people, that it's going to put more of a burden on this than there
should be, considering it's only a shared driveway and not a private road and I didn't want
to set something on the plat that could in the future have them turn this into a -- into a
public road and so a little background on the owner. This is three brothers and their mom.
They are not developers, they are not looking to sell this property or make a profit on it,
they are actually reducing the density. Less cars on Ten Mile than -- than what could be,
but because of that, you know, they -- you know, with the -- the reduction in the density
and the fact that they are not looking to make money on this -- you know, everything that
they give up onto this is going -- is going to cost them more money and so my concern
with that -- that access -- that easement being there in perpetuity is that now we have got
cross -access agreements and we have got maintenance agreements that need to be
entered into between my client and whoever decides to develop that down the road. Also
if it's created on the plat in order to change it and make any change so we need to do a
replat. So, it just brings up these issues and, you know, right now if you look at that and
you go north and -- you can't see it on the picture there, unfortunately, but their existing
access is right across the street from another road, from a crossroad, their existing access
they use. And, then, ACHD put this other cut in there. So, I'm not -- you know, I don't
know why they did that, but, you know, in my opinion I think that the access is there and
usable for whatever could be done. So, again, that's -- that's where I stand on that. The
other element was the -- the other item was the -- the traffic light. So, there is a traffic
light already right there on the north side of the property. There is a crosswalk as you
can see -- in the aerial image you can see there is a crosswalk there and there is a light
there and so the Public Works rule, I think it's like 6-7, requires there to be a light every
200 feet and the edge of the property line at the bottom here is 205 feet and I have
measured it and so they are five foot -- you know, within it and I don't know exactly what
a traffic light costs, but I know, you know, for my client it's going to make it very difficult
for them to realize this project for themselves. So, I'm hoping that we can get away from
that requirement. I have driven up and down Ten Mile Road -- as far as traffic lights go,
there is only -- I counted -- I counted seven -- not counting the intersections I counted
seven lights on the east side and five lights on the west side and when you look at that
over the half mile section between Franklin and Cherry, that's an average distance of, you
know, between four and five hundred feet between the lights. So, you know, that's what's
there now and so I would like it if we could, you know, not do the light. Also considering
there is a traffic light 300 feet -- not a traffic light, but a streetlight. There is a streetlight
300 feet south of the existing one that goes into West Forecast Lane. If the city is not
going to relax that requirement -- they called -- they asked for a -- I think it was a 35 foot
-- a 35 foot light with a 12 foot mast. I'm wondering -- you know, I'm just brainstorming
here -- if we can't do something on this existing pole that's 200 feet south. So, it's right
about where they are proposing that light to be there is already a cross arm there with
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 53 of 60
two flashing lights to warn you of the traffic signal coming up. So, I'm wondering if maybe
we couldn't figure out a way to put a light on top of that, you know, which would be
significantly cheaper and more in my client's budget to be able to manage, you know, if
-- if we can't get around the -- the light requirement. That's all I have. Any questions?
Perreault: Any questions for the applicant? So, I wanted to get some clarification about
the -- the cross -access. So, it's -- from your explanation my understanding is that the
burden would be on you to not only provide the physical access from the private drive,
but you also would have to do all the legal documentation, excuse me, for that as well.
would assume that some of that would actually be on the future -- or, you know, the
current landowner if they decide that they want to develop it into two parcels. So, what is
your client's actual -- what is their actual requirement going to be for that? What is the
city requiring in order to --
Rush: Madam Chair, so the city -- again, that's been kind of vague and I had some
discussions with Kevin about that yesterday. I think it would alleviate my concerns if we
could have some sort of development agreement or something in place that would put
the burden on that north adjoiner to -- to carry all of that, you know, and, again, you talk
about putting a restriction on it if it's two parcels so that we wouldn't have to change it
from a shared driveway, we wouldn't have to make it a public or private road, but, again,
even if it remains as one parcel you could theoretically put -- you know, we don't know
what's going to happen in 20 or 30 years down the road, but you could put a -- you know,
a really dense apartment complex, some sort of multiplex there and now all of a sudden
you have got a lot more cars using that. So, it may not -- you know, it's still their shared
driveway, but now you have got more people using it. So, I'm just -- you know, I'm kind
of thinking this through and what that does for them as far as the -- the burden placed on
them in the future when and if that does develop, whatever happens with that. There is
also the issue of a -- a very shallow irrigation pipe that runs east -west right along that
property line. It's about three feet deep. So, that would also have to be mitigated. You
would have to possibly dig the line up and put a -- you know, sleeve it into a -- you know,
like a 900 pipe or something that's more robust than what's there now. There is just --
there is just issues with it that, you know, when I -- when I looked at this, you know, this
is a -- again, this is something they could leave as it is in perpetuity with the house on it,
but, you know, they want to create this little community for their family and I think to leave
the burden on that for cross -access for this, you know, neighboring parcel to the north
that we don't know what's going to happen ten, 20, 30 years down the road with it is -- is
kind of an unfair burden.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: So, Kevin, I mean it's a plat -- I mean you can add a plat note or -- I mean it's
an easement only; right? I mean private road, we have requirements that they can't build
onto a private road. I mean they are -- that's in -- in our code. So, I mean it's in the plat
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 54 of 60
notes it's an easement. Nothing is getting built and it would be on the other developer to
connect that later on; correct?
Holmes: Madam Chair, Commissioner Fitzgerald, yes, you are correct. It would be a
note on the plat and graphically depicted as a 20 foot wide easement outside of the
landscape buffer, basically holding that -- that just in case in the future there was
development to the north that could use it under code, they would be able to. In -- in
relationship to the concerns that some sort of multi -family development would come in
there and it would, you know, create more of a public road or -- that would require a
rezone or, you know, even having two single family homes on there would require going
through the plat process. I wish the city would be able to see if it was appropriate to utilize
that access easement. So, I feel like there is -- there is backstops in place to ameliorate
some of the concerns that the applicant has.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Question, Aaron. In your neighborhood meeting -- so, you had a chance to talk
to the property owner to the north and did they have any thoughts about what they plan
to do in the future?
Rush: I myself did not attend the neighborhood meeting. However, the owner is here
and she can answer that question.
Perreault: Ma'am? Ma'am? I'm sorry, we have to get everything on the record, so we
will ask you to come up in just a moment when he's finished. Thank you so much. Not
trying to cut you off, but we have to have it into the microphone. So -- okay. So, is that
-- is that clear that there might be a request to modify the plat to show the easement on
there? I mean you're already going to modify it, because you're going to be adding --
you're going to be changing the -- the -- that whole strip right there into common area.
The staff had recommended that. And you already are going to modify this, right, because
you have got to put the 20 feet -- combine Lots 1 and 3 and you're going to -- and you're
going to lengthen Lot 5 and so you would add that easement in that -- in that section
there. So, you're going to do some engineering modifications to the plat anyway, so it
sounds like that's all that would be required to -- to allow for it. Now, your -- understand
your concern is about what they could potentially do with that, but they can't put in multi-
family if there is no exit out onto Ten Mile without going through a private driveway. So,
they would -- they would have to come before the city to do an application and somehow
prove that they aren't going to use your private driveway to exit onto Ten Mile. That's
basically what I'm understanding this as saying. Does that answer some questions for
you?
Rush: Yes. However, again, I'm a little concerned with placing that burden on them,
because, again, who is going to take care of maintenance? Who is going to take care of
-- and so I -- I worry about my client needing to be involved with that and needing legal
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 55 of 60
representation and having to put forth an effort to make sure that that -- you know, now
they are -- they are taking their private driveway and, you know, imagine this as your --
your private driveway and leaving that open in perpetuity to potentially opening that up to
someone else's use and as far as what the north adjoiner is doing now, I don't know that
they have any intention to do anything, but, again, we don't know what that means ten,
20 years down the road, you know, while my client is still living there. You know, I suppose
we could handle it with some notes on the plat and I would have to work with the city on
that, but, again, you know, again, I just -- I just feel like it unnecessarily opens them up to
do something to -- to something that they -- that they don't want.
Perreault: Okay. Anymore questions for the applicant? Thank you. Is there anybody
who actually signed up to testify?
Weatherly: Madam Chair, the only sign in was from the applicant, so --
Perreault: Okay. Excellent. Are there any in the audience that would like to come forward
and speak that would be -- you're welcome to at this time. As you come forward, please,
state your name and address for the record and speak clearly into the microphone.
Schranz: I'm Elizabeth Schranz and I am one of the owners on Ten Mile
Perreault: Okay.
Schranz: Okay. What's bothering me is I talked to my neighbors first off and their property
is probably a little bit bigger than mine and they have no idea ever, unless they die and
their kids take it over and do something, that will be the only way that they will ever change
it. But the problem that I'm having on that easement is, one, we wanted a private road,
we want to keep the traffic low, but I also have a big easement with the irrigation
department, giving them a lot of land all the way down. See, that's another problem and,
then, you want to maybe down the road from now, ten years, put another road to go
through there and cross all the pipes and dig up everything. That takes even more of our
property. You know, it's already been -- I was hoping to have more than this on -- you
know, for each lot, you know. I'm used to living up in the mountains and having it and
now I keep losing more and more and easements and easements and it's -- it's getting a
little bit more difficult to enjoy and have a little piece of land to just relax and not so much
traffic. That's why we all got together and now taking care of me as I age, so -- you know,
lucky that way. But really worried about that easement, you know, and two signal lights
blinking all the time, I think that's great. I don't think they need anymore. There is -- they
are always stopping for people crossing. I cross and walk to Albertson's all the time. So,
it seems really fine, it's just hoping not to take anymore of the land that we have to, you
know. So, that's more of where I'm at.
Perreault: Okay. Thank you very much.
Schranz: Sure.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 56 of 60
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland, do you have a question?
Holland: I do. Yeah. So, you're representing the property that's under conversation
tonight, but were you at the neighborhood meeting and did you hear at all from --
Schranz: I ran the neighborhood meeting.
Holland: Okay. So, did -- did the neighbor to the north say anything about what their
future plans are? It's just --
Schranz: Yeah. They said glad to see your property being developed and they had no
plans of moving or doing anything to theirs. They -- they just live there until whenever
and their kids and all their families come and, you know, they are just happy to see that
we are having family build three homes there, you know, so -- there is nothing in the
future.
Perreault: Thank you very much.
Schranz: Sure.
Perreault: Okay. That's everyone? Oh, does the applicant have anything else to add?
Okay. Thank you. At this time I will take a motion to close the public hearing.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair, I move we close the public hearing on Nick Estates Subdivision,
H-2019-0086.
Holland: Second.
Seal: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for H-2019-0086.
All those in favor say aye. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: SIX AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Cassinelli: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Cassinelli.
Cassinelli: And this is kind of a question for staff I guess. I don't -- I'm not -- it looks like
that the crosswalk is right there at the entrance to the driveway. You know, I kind of --
kind of went up and down Ten Mile there, there is -- the lights are fairly intermittent. They
seem to be at some of the intersections and whatnot, but -- between there I don't see
many. That one's right there. I don't -- I don't necessarily see a need for that light.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 57 of 60
Fitzgerald: They are everywhere. I mean like you're adding a light and there is a light
there, a light there.
Cassinelli: Well, there is a light further down the street.
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Cassinelli: There is a light right there. I just don't -- I couldn't get my map open on this,
but --
Fitzgerald: Yeah.
Perreault: So, Commissioner Cassinelli, what -- are you suggesting --
Cassinelli: I'm just questioning --
Perreault: -- a light? What are you suggesting?
Cassinelli: I'm questioning the -- the need -- the need for that light.
Holmes: Madam Chair, Commissioner Cassinelli, just to be clear, we are speaking of
streetlights. Okay. So, it's a requirement of the Public Works design standards that on
arterial roads, such as Ten Mile, we have streetlights at least within every 200 feet. I wish
Public Works was here to speak to this little bit more, but it's my understanding that
Council -- I don't know if this is something that we can waive tonight or recommend
waiving. It's also my understanding that this is a school zone. There is the -- the school
on the other side of Ten Mile and I know that in the past the city has been very much in
favor of adding extra precautions. This is where their school children are crossing early
in the morning, so --
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Holmes: -- had some contacts, too.
Fitzgerald: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Fitzgerald.
Fitzgerald: There is a streetlight on top of the -- top of the crossbar before the school
crossing on the corner of the property surrounding another one. This just seems overly
excessive, but --
Perreault: So, I don't know that we have ever actually had to make a decision regarding
a Public Works request, so if you could give us some -- some understanding of how that
works on our part or do we just have Council -- you know, recommend that Council make
that decision and not -- not put any -- or not to give any opinions on it.
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 58 of 60
Parsons: Madam Chair, Members of the Commission, certainly we are not the expert on
Public Works standards, but our code does require certain spacing for lighting. Yes, there
may not be the exact amount of streetlights along that roadway to date, but they do
happen when properties develop or redevelop and so this is one thing that triggered the
addition of the light to meet their spacing standards. On arterial roadways you want more
lighting. You have more traffic. More people. So, you want it lit up more. So, again,
from my vantage point it's not within your purview to strike a Public Works condition. This
is code. You're here to enforce the code and if Public Works says you need to put in
utilities per city code and that's what UDC says and so staff has to stick with that
recommendation and I would encourage you to do the same. Now, again, something
they could take up with City Council as they get before them, but at this point my
recommendation is stick with Public Works standards. The UDC requires it. They are
redeveloping the property. They are intensifying the property and so they are triggering
that additional streetlight. In speaking with Al Christy I think the cost for those streetlights
is about 6,000 dollars, pulling out the numbers for the applicant and -- it's a lot of money.
Development is expensive. I understand that. But that's roughly the cost of a streetlight.
The city maintains the power once it's installed.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Follow-up question for Bill. Would there be an appropriate way to say a motion
that we would ask the Public Works Department to work with the applicant to see if there
was some sort of alternative compliance that would meet the code?
Parsons: Absolutely. Or as the applicant's representative suggested, maybe there is an
option to retrofit the existing infrastructure in the area to add another light on it. There is
-- certainly that option is available to you.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I think that would be my recommendation, just that we ask Public Works to work
with the applicant on finding a solution to the -- the lighting situation. Overall I'm -- I'm
fine with the way that the development works out. I think when it comes to the -- the
easement agreement I would probably side with staff in wanting to still have the easement
there, just in case that -- that it developed. You're not -- it's -- it's zoned for medium
density. They are not going to be able to fit more than two houses on that lot in the future
anyway, so it would meet that they need to fix -- fit with the sixth lots that could fit on that
private street and it's not something that they have to actually develop the road or stub
the road, it just means that they have to have that 20 feet available in case that other user
whatever to do it and as the applicant stated it sounds like that property is not planning to
redevelop anytime in the near future, so it's likely going to be a non -issue, it's just a matter
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 59 of 60
of putting it on the plat to be available if they ever needed it in the future. That's my
thought is that we would leave that condition.
Perreault: It does -- and I would assume that it does actually affect the value of that
property to the north as well, whether or not -- and that -- but that -- that's the reason we
-- we asked about whether there was conversation with the -- the property owner to the
north, because that is a value issue for them. Not that that's our purview per se, but we
definitely don't want to see any of the parcels along that arterial devalued in any way, so
-- especially with the high amount of visibility that's there. Thank you, Commissioner
Holland. Any additional thoughts, comments, questions for staff?
Seal: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Seal.
Seal: I'm just looking at this as a give and take. I agree with the -- putting in a provision
to have them work with the Public Works -- Public Works to provide a solution to the
lighting, but in looking at this -- and I'm appreciative of the fact that it is a family dwelling,
let's say, and -- but as a future -- in the future it may not be that way. So, it could be sold
to anybody. It may not end up being all families living at a later date. So, I think we
probably need to think along those lines and make sure that we support the staff in -- in
provisioning it that way.
McCarvel: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner McCarvel.
McCarvel: Yeah. I -- I agree. I think we need to protect that easement, but I also think
-- I mean 6,000 dollars for a difference of five feet for that light, I think there is going to be
some other conclusions drawn for that and I think -- I mean it's more than one percent
variance. I think it's probably fine the way it is.
Perreault: Okay. Anybody ready to make a motion?
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: Unless anybody else is jumping up and down to do it --
Perreault: You are our best motion maker.
Fitzgerald: I agree.
Holland: I don't know that I would agree with that, but -- after considering all staff,
applicant, and public testimony, I move to recommend approval to the City Council of file
Meridian Planning & Zoning Commission
September 19, 2019
Page 60 of 60
number H-2019-0086 as presented in the staff report for the hearing date of September
19th, 2019, with the following modification: That the applicant and staff would work with
Public Works to see if there might be alternative compliance to the lighting issue and that
they could have those conversations before this goes to City Council.
Fitzgerald: Second.
Perreault: Okay. It's been moved and seconded to recommend approval of Nick Estates
Subdivision, H-2019-0086, with the stated modifications in the motion. All those in favor
say aye. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED:. SIX AYES. ONE ABSENT.
Holland: Madam Chair?
Perreault: Commissioner Holland.
Holland: I move we adjourn for the Thursday, September 19th, meeting.
Fitzgerald: Second.
Perreault: It has been moved and seconded to close the public hearing for September
19th, 2019. All those in favor say aye. Motion carries.
MOTION CARRIED: SIX AYES. ONE ABSENT.
MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:02 P.M.
(AUDIO RECORDING ON FILE OF THESE PROCEEDINGS.)
L)kaf) - 1,3 1l
J I P RREAULT - CHAIRMAN DATE APPROVE
ATTEST:
Adrienne VVeat erly, Deputy City Clerk for
CHRIS J1 ON - CITY CLERK